<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_28_135239</id>
	<title>Tesla Roadster Breaks Distance Record For Electric Car</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1256736600000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"The CEO of an Australian ISP has <a href="http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/159181,tesla-breaks-land-record-for-electric-car-on-a-single-charge.aspx">driven his Tesla Roadster into the record books</a>, completing 501km on a single electric charge in the 2009 Global Green Challenge &mdash; beating the Roadster's official specifications, which rate the all-electric sports car as being capable of a maximum of 390km per charge. The previous record was held by another Roadster in the 387km <em>Rallye Monte Carlo d'Energies Alternatives</em> in April this year. In a race specifically designed for alternative energy vehicles (such as hydrogen and electricity), the Roadster was the only vehicle to complete the entire course. Though to be fair, that race course was a mixture of twists, turns and hills."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " The CEO of an Australian ISP has driven his Tesla Roadster into the record books , completing 501km on a single electric charge in the 2009 Global Green Challenge    beating the Roadster 's official specifications , which rate the all-electric sports car as being capable of a maximum of 390km per charge .
The previous record was held by another Roadster in the 387km Rallye Monte Carlo d'Energies Alternatives in April this year .
In a race specifically designed for alternative energy vehicles ( such as hydrogen and electricity ) , the Roadster was the only vehicle to complete the entire course .
Though to be fair , that race course was a mixture of twists , turns and hills .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "The CEO of an Australian ISP has driven his Tesla Roadster into the record books, completing 501km on a single electric charge in the 2009 Global Green Challenge — beating the Roadster's official specifications, which rate the all-electric sports car as being capable of a maximum of 390km per charge.
The previous record was held by another Roadster in the 387km Rallye Monte Carlo d'Energies Alternatives in April this year.
In a race specifically designed for alternative energy vehicles (such as hydrogen and electricity), the Roadster was the only vehicle to complete the entire course.
Though to be fair, that race course was a mixture of twists, turns and hills.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898049</id>
	<title>Wow for a geek site most seem anti technology</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256747640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does a car have to be nuclear to get people excited around here? I'm not even hearing any new arguments. Until it can be instantly recharged and cost less than an average car few people are interested and most are outright hostile? If any one is interested check out "Who Killed The Electric Car". Every person that got their hands on one loved it and they did no more than 50 miles per charge, the Tesla can do around 240 with normal driving. The real joke is what they seemed to like most WAS the convenience. They loved the fact you didn't have to stop by a gas station just plug it in when you got home.</p><p>"Gee they are only for the rich." Well I've got a shocker for you when calculators first came out they were large and cost around $400, more like a $1000 in adjusted dollars. Also all they did was basic math. Within ten years they were under $10 and you could soon after that find them built into pens. You won't find that radical a change with batteries but they will come down. I'm more concerned with the weight since that is hurting performance. The battery weight is all that is keeping a Tesla from blowing away a $200,000 sports car. Basically they have the potential to blow away a car twice the price and can already do it in the straightway. Just imagine the weight cut in half and the mileage doubled?</p><p>"But once a year we drive to Grandma's house". Man am I tired of that argument. How many drivers drive more than 200 miles a day? Damn few. Here's a shocker, how many people that could aford an electric car are single car families? Near zero. Point being if the thought of not being able to take a long drive makes you hyperventilate then make one car gasoline or hybrid.</p><p>Christ I've even seen blind people complain because of the LACK of noise. They do make sound just not as obnoxious as cars and trucks do. Picture this, once the prices start to match regular cars you can fill up for a $1 to $3. And it's a myth that we'll each have to have our own nuclear plant. The average house could charge one daily just by switching their existing bulbs to compact florescents. Once LEDs get as cheap the savings would be enough to charge two cars. We won't have to build a single coal plant and if you just took the gas savings and put solar panels on the roof then there would be no increase you'd actually drive for free once the panels were paid off.</p><p>Last century saw the end of horse drawn carriages let's make this the century we get rid of gas guzzlers. They are starting to look as primitive as carriages.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does a car have to be nuclear to get people excited around here ?
I 'm not even hearing any new arguments .
Until it can be instantly recharged and cost less than an average car few people are interested and most are outright hostile ?
If any one is interested check out " Who Killed The Electric Car " .
Every person that got their hands on one loved it and they did no more than 50 miles per charge , the Tesla can do around 240 with normal driving .
The real joke is what they seemed to like most WAS the convenience .
They loved the fact you did n't have to stop by a gas station just plug it in when you got home .
" Gee they are only for the rich .
" Well I 've got a shocker for you when calculators first came out they were large and cost around $ 400 , more like a $ 1000 in adjusted dollars .
Also all they did was basic math .
Within ten years they were under $ 10 and you could soon after that find them built into pens .
You wo n't find that radical a change with batteries but they will come down .
I 'm more concerned with the weight since that is hurting performance .
The battery weight is all that is keeping a Tesla from blowing away a $ 200,000 sports car .
Basically they have the potential to blow away a car twice the price and can already do it in the straightway .
Just imagine the weight cut in half and the mileage doubled ?
" But once a year we drive to Grandma 's house " .
Man am I tired of that argument .
How many drivers drive more than 200 miles a day ?
Damn few .
Here 's a shocker , how many people that could aford an electric car are single car families ?
Near zero .
Point being if the thought of not being able to take a long drive makes you hyperventilate then make one car gasoline or hybrid.Christ I 've even seen blind people complain because of the LACK of noise .
They do make sound just not as obnoxious as cars and trucks do .
Picture this , once the prices start to match regular cars you can fill up for a $ 1 to $ 3 .
And it 's a myth that we 'll each have to have our own nuclear plant .
The average house could charge one daily just by switching their existing bulbs to compact florescents .
Once LEDs get as cheap the savings would be enough to charge two cars .
We wo n't have to build a single coal plant and if you just took the gas savings and put solar panels on the roof then there would be no increase you 'd actually drive for free once the panels were paid off.Last century saw the end of horse drawn carriages let 's make this the century we get rid of gas guzzlers .
They are starting to look as primitive as carriages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does a car have to be nuclear to get people excited around here?
I'm not even hearing any new arguments.
Until it can be instantly recharged and cost less than an average car few people are interested and most are outright hostile?
If any one is interested check out "Who Killed The Electric Car".
Every person that got their hands on one loved it and they did no more than 50 miles per charge, the Tesla can do around 240 with normal driving.
The real joke is what they seemed to like most WAS the convenience.
They loved the fact you didn't have to stop by a gas station just plug it in when you got home.
"Gee they are only for the rich.
" Well I've got a shocker for you when calculators first came out they were large and cost around $400, more like a $1000 in adjusted dollars.
Also all they did was basic math.
Within ten years they were under $10 and you could soon after that find them built into pens.
You won't find that radical a change with batteries but they will come down.
I'm more concerned with the weight since that is hurting performance.
The battery weight is all that is keeping a Tesla from blowing away a $200,000 sports car.
Basically they have the potential to blow away a car twice the price and can already do it in the straightway.
Just imagine the weight cut in half and the mileage doubled?
"But once a year we drive to Grandma's house".
Man am I tired of that argument.
How many drivers drive more than 200 miles a day?
Damn few.
Here's a shocker, how many people that could aford an electric car are single car families?
Near zero.
Point being if the thought of not being able to take a long drive makes you hyperventilate then make one car gasoline or hybrid.Christ I've even seen blind people complain because of the LACK of noise.
They do make sound just not as obnoxious as cars and trucks do.
Picture this, once the prices start to match regular cars you can fill up for a $1 to $3.
And it's a myth that we'll each have to have our own nuclear plant.
The average house could charge one daily just by switching their existing bulbs to compact florescents.
Once LEDs get as cheap the savings would be enough to charge two cars.
We won't have to build a single coal plant and if you just took the gas savings and put solar panels on the roof then there would be no increase you'd actually drive for free once the panels were paid off.Last century saw the end of horse drawn carriages let's make this the century we get rid of gas guzzlers.
They are starting to look as primitive as carriages.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29905635</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256743020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A petrol car has better efficiency at lower speeds as well.<br>Using petrol does not magically lower your cars CD.</p><p>I've driven a few older petrol cars which don't have a 500km range.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A petrol car has better efficiency at lower speeds as well.Using petrol does not magically lower your cars CD.I 've driven a few older petrol cars which do n't have a 500km range .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A petrol car has better efficiency at lower speeds as well.Using petrol does not magically lower your cars CD.I've driven a few older petrol cars which don't have a 500km range.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29904249</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256733600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"So: batteries? supercapacitors? ultracapacitors? it doesn't matter the least bit if you don't have the power infrastructure to charge it. "</p><p>So why not just have another one of those ultracapacitors sitting in your garage charging from the mains all day then use that to charge your car in 10 minutes when you need it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" So : batteries ?
supercapacitors ? ultracapacitors ?
it does n't matter the least bit if you do n't have the power infrastructure to charge it .
" So why not just have another one of those ultracapacitors sitting in your garage charging from the mains all day then use that to charge your car in 10 minutes when you need it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"So: batteries?
supercapacitors? ultracapacitors?
it doesn't matter the least bit if you don't have the power infrastructure to charge it.
"So why not just have another one of those ultracapacitors sitting in your garage charging from the mains all day then use that to charge your car in 10 minutes when you need it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897653</id>
	<title>Re:Now THAT is an electric car.</title>
	<author>TooMuchToDo</author>
	<datestamp>1256746140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>THIS! Plus, you get a nice tax credit =)</htmltext>
<tokenext>THIS !
Plus , you get a nice tax credit = )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>THIS!
Plus, you get a nice tax credit =)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897177</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897027</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>berashith</author>
	<datestamp>1256743620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are right<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... screw improvements until we can find perfection!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are right ... screw improvements until we can find perfection !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are right ... screw improvements until we can find perfection!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29900509</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>EvilBudMan</author>
	<datestamp>1256757780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>--Good luck putting 53kWh of energy into a battery in "a matter of minutes". --</p><p>You could do it in seconds, if you standardized the batteries and had battery stations for long trips. It would require some automation of course.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>--Good luck putting 53kWh of energy into a battery in " a matter of minutes " .
--You could do it in seconds , if you standardized the batteries and had battery stations for long trips .
It would require some automation of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>--Good luck putting 53kWh of energy into a battery in "a matter of minutes".
--You could do it in seconds, if you standardized the batteries and had battery stations for long trips.
It would require some automation of course.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898025</id>
	<title>Whoopee frickin' do</title>
	<author>RogueWarrior65</author>
	<datestamp>1256747520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A) If a trial (IMHO, this isn't a race) doesn't include twisty turny roads it's pointless.  B) 300 miles is nothing.  I'll regularly drive 700 miles a day and it takes about 10 minutes to refill my tank, empty my other tank and get back on the road.  Until THAT problem is solved, don't bore me with this stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A ) If a trial ( IMHO , this is n't a race ) does n't include twisty turny roads it 's pointless .
B ) 300 miles is nothing .
I 'll regularly drive 700 miles a day and it takes about 10 minutes to refill my tank , empty my other tank and get back on the road .
Until THAT problem is solved , do n't bore me with this stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A) If a trial (IMHO, this isn't a race) doesn't include twisty turny roads it's pointless.
B) 300 miles is nothing.
I'll regularly drive 700 miles a day and it takes about 10 minutes to refill my tank, empty my other tank and get back on the road.
Until THAT problem is solved, don't bore me with this stuff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29902017</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Rei</author>
	<datestamp>1256721300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Except I can easily refuel that and keep going. The trip to my folks' house is 365 miles.</i></p><p>The Roadster doesn't, but many upcoming EVs support some degree of rapid charge -- 10-30 minutes.  The Roadster can't because of the type of cells that they use (the same ones found in laptops -- all that was readily and affordably available when they started developing it).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except I can easily refuel that and keep going .
The trip to my folks ' house is 365 miles.The Roadster does n't , but many upcoming EVs support some degree of rapid charge -- 10-30 minutes .
The Roadster ca n't because of the type of cells that they use ( the same ones found in laptops -- all that was readily and affordably available when they started developing it ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except I can easily refuel that and keep going.
The trip to my folks' house is 365 miles.The Roadster doesn't, but many upcoming EVs support some degree of rapid charge -- 10-30 minutes.
The Roadster can't because of the type of cells that they use (the same ones found in laptops -- all that was readily and affordably available when they started developing it).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29922315</id>
	<title>moving car dwarfs manufacturing it</title>
	<author>spage</author>
	<datestamp>1256908140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're not thinking it through.  Even if 100 pounds of lithium is shipped 20,000 miles to make your car, that's nothing compared to moving 3,000 pounds of car 150,000 miles over its lifetime.  Besides, shipping goods by sea is very efficient per pound.</p><p>Some sites like <a href="whatgreencar.com" title="slashdot.org">whatgreencar.com</a> [slashdot.org] try to compute the production of a car as well as its pollution in operation.  But since all reputable studies suggest that 75-90\% of lifetime energy use occurs in operation of a vehicle, not its production, weight and materials don't have much effect.  The car that is more efficient is better for the environment, so adding batteries is better environmentally despite the increased weight. For those of us who can't afford a Tesla Roadster, the least bad car for the environment is the one with highest MPG.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're not thinking it through .
Even if 100 pounds of lithium is shipped 20,000 miles to make your car , that 's nothing compared to moving 3,000 pounds of car 150,000 miles over its lifetime .
Besides , shipping goods by sea is very efficient per pound.Some sites like whatgreencar.com [ slashdot.org ] try to compute the production of a car as well as its pollution in operation .
But since all reputable studies suggest that 75-90 \ % of lifetime energy use occurs in operation of a vehicle , not its production , weight and materials do n't have much effect .
The car that is more efficient is better for the environment , so adding batteries is better environmentally despite the increased weight .
For those of us who ca n't afford a Tesla Roadster , the least bad car for the environment is the one with highest MPG .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're not thinking it through.
Even if 100 pounds of lithium is shipped 20,000 miles to make your car, that's nothing compared to moving 3,000 pounds of car 150,000 miles over its lifetime.
Besides, shipping goods by sea is very efficient per pound.Some sites like whatgreencar.com [slashdot.org] try to compute the production of a car as well as its pollution in operation.
But since all reputable studies suggest that 75-90\% of lifetime energy use occurs in operation of a vehicle, not its production, weight and materials don't have much effect.
The car that is more efficient is better for the environment, so adding batteries is better environmentally despite the increased weight.
For those of us who can't afford a Tesla Roadster, the least bad car for the environment is the one with highest MPG.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899397</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>plague3106</author>
	<datestamp>1256753640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty' sources, such as coal, oil and nuclear. All thats happening is the carbon output of transportation is being shifted from the consumer to the manufacturer.</i></p><p>Fine.  How much pollution is added for an additional $5 worth of electricy, vs. the amount of pollution that comes from a full tank of gas.</p><p>Also, lets not forget leaking gasoline storage tanks, but there's more than just air pollution you know.  <a href="http://www.calgasoline.com/news81902lat.htm" title="calgasoline.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.calgasoline.com/news81902lat.htm</a> [calgasoline.com].</p><p><i>And even if we DO get a much larger percentage of clean energy sources, we still have to consider the massive costs that will be needed to upgrade the aging energy grid to be able to support the huge draw that electric cars will demand. Even a few million electric cars in the US will put a huge strain on the grid.</i></p><p>Doubtful.  Electrical usage peaks during the day, whereas most would likely charge their car at night.</p><p><i>Finally, how good are the batteries for the enviornment? Can they be recycled cleanly? And how often do they need to be replaced? After a few months of steady use?</i></p><p>You realize you can easily find answers to this questions on google.  the fact that you're even posing them makes  me supsect you're being willfully ignorant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty ' sources , such as coal , oil and nuclear .
All thats happening is the carbon output of transportation is being shifted from the consumer to the manufacturer.Fine .
How much pollution is added for an additional $ 5 worth of electricy , vs. the amount of pollution that comes from a full tank of gas.Also , lets not forget leaking gasoline storage tanks , but there 's more than just air pollution you know .
http : //www.calgasoline.com/news81902lat.htm [ calgasoline.com ] .And even if we DO get a much larger percentage of clean energy sources , we still have to consider the massive costs that will be needed to upgrade the aging energy grid to be able to support the huge draw that electric cars will demand .
Even a few million electric cars in the US will put a huge strain on the grid.Doubtful .
Electrical usage peaks during the day , whereas most would likely charge their car at night.Finally , how good are the batteries for the enviornment ?
Can they be recycled cleanly ?
And how often do they need to be replaced ?
After a few months of steady use ? You realize you can easily find answers to this questions on google .
the fact that you 're even posing them makes me supsect you 're being willfully ignorant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty' sources, such as coal, oil and nuclear.
All thats happening is the carbon output of transportation is being shifted from the consumer to the manufacturer.Fine.
How much pollution is added for an additional $5 worth of electricy, vs. the amount of pollution that comes from a full tank of gas.Also, lets not forget leaking gasoline storage tanks, but there's more than just air pollution you know.
http://www.calgasoline.com/news81902lat.htm [calgasoline.com].And even if we DO get a much larger percentage of clean energy sources, we still have to consider the massive costs that will be needed to upgrade the aging energy grid to be able to support the huge draw that electric cars will demand.
Even a few million electric cars in the US will put a huge strain on the grid.Doubtful.
Electrical usage peaks during the day, whereas most would likely charge their car at night.Finally, how good are the batteries for the enviornment?
Can they be recycled cleanly?
And how often do they need to be replaced?
After a few months of steady use?You realize you can easily find answers to this questions on google.
the fact that you're even posing them makes  me supsect you're being willfully ignorant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29901745</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1256763300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with the whole efficiency of plants - you'd be surprised what some companies go through to reduce emissions.</p><p>As for batteries, how do you determine the life of the car in an electric car? Gasoline powered vehicles tend to have a limitted life because of all the combustion that takes place inside which requires lots of moving parts and oil for all those moving parts and eventually the stress will just kill it in one section or another. I've not known someone who's driven a car for more than 5 years who hasn't had to replace SOMETHING under the hood.</p><p>Given an electric car doesn't have nearly as many explosions or moving parts to it - its lifetime could be exceptionally longer than a regular car, which means its impossible to guage the lifetime of a battery of a car that could live forever.</p><p>This is of course excluding the occurances of vehicular accidents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with the whole efficiency of plants - you 'd be surprised what some companies go through to reduce emissions.As for batteries , how do you determine the life of the car in an electric car ?
Gasoline powered vehicles tend to have a limitted life because of all the combustion that takes place inside which requires lots of moving parts and oil for all those moving parts and eventually the stress will just kill it in one section or another .
I 've not known someone who 's driven a car for more than 5 years who has n't had to replace SOMETHING under the hood.Given an electric car does n't have nearly as many explosions or moving parts to it - its lifetime could be exceptionally longer than a regular car , which means its impossible to guage the lifetime of a battery of a car that could live forever.This is of course excluding the occurances of vehicular accidents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with the whole efficiency of plants - you'd be surprised what some companies go through to reduce emissions.As for batteries, how do you determine the life of the car in an electric car?
Gasoline powered vehicles tend to have a limitted life because of all the combustion that takes place inside which requires lots of moving parts and oil for all those moving parts and eventually the stress will just kill it in one section or another.
I've not known someone who's driven a car for more than 5 years who hasn't had to replace SOMETHING under the hood.Given an electric car doesn't have nearly as many explosions or moving parts to it - its lifetime could be exceptionally longer than a regular car, which means its impossible to guage the lifetime of a battery of a car that could live forever.This is of course excluding the occurances of vehicular accidents.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896609</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896307</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1256740800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And the long straightaways. I would guess the official spec anticipates a little more stopping and starting than these guys did.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And the long straightaways .
I would guess the official spec anticipates a little more stopping and starting than these guys did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the long straightaways.
I would guess the official spec anticipates a little more stopping and starting than these guys did.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896245</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899041</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256752020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Instead of thinking of them as rechargeable batteries, why not think about them as batteries?  What if gas stations became trickle chargers for battery packs that had an automated machine that could swap them out...which might even be faster than filling up a gas tank.  Sure this concept has it's draw backs, but it would solve the range and charging rate issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead of thinking of them as rechargeable batteries , why not think about them as batteries ?
What if gas stations became trickle chargers for battery packs that had an automated machine that could swap them out...which might even be faster than filling up a gas tank .
Sure this concept has it 's draw backs , but it would solve the range and charging rate issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead of thinking of them as rechargeable batteries, why not think about them as batteries?
What if gas stations became trickle chargers for battery packs that had an automated machine that could swap them out...which might even be faster than filling up a gas tank.
Sure this concept has it's draw backs, but it would solve the range and charging rate issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29902997</id>
	<title>Tesla race blog</title>
	<author>Falconhell</author>
	<datestamp>1256726340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For those who are interested, the blog for this internode entry, detailing the event so far is at;</p><p><a href="http://blog.internode.on.net/" title="on.net">http://blog.internode.on.net/</a> [on.net]</p><p>Simon and Emilis are experienced glider pilots too, and credit the experience they have from glider energy management as one of the factors in acheiving the record.</p><p>MOst amazing thing is the article spelt Emilis surname correctly!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For those who are interested , the blog for this internode entry , detailing the event so far is at ; http : //blog.internode.on.net/ [ on.net ] Simon and Emilis are experienced glider pilots too , and credit the experience they have from glider energy management as one of the factors in acheiving the record.MOst amazing thing is the article spelt Emilis surname correctly !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For those who are interested, the blog for this internode entry, detailing the event so far is at;http://blog.internode.on.net/ [on.net]Simon and Emilis are experienced glider pilots too, and credit the experience they have from glider energy management as one of the factors in acheiving the record.MOst amazing thing is the article spelt Emilis surname correctly!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29900411</id>
	<title>Re:If crash then (crushed AND electrocuted)</title>
	<author>yurtinus</author>
	<datestamp>1256757480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Curious exactly what it is you are driving... The majority of new "lightweight tissue framed" vehicles are worlds safer than the heavy vehicles of yore. Automotive structures these days do a phenomenal job of dispersing energy around the passenger compartment instead of through it.
<br> <br>
But y'know, what ever makes you feel safer. More cold water to ya, man!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Curious exactly what it is you are driving... The majority of new " lightweight tissue framed " vehicles are worlds safer than the heavy vehicles of yore .
Automotive structures these days do a phenomenal job of dispersing energy around the passenger compartment instead of through it .
But y'know , what ever makes you feel safer .
More cold water to ya , man !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Curious exactly what it is you are driving... The majority of new "lightweight tissue framed" vehicles are worlds safer than the heavy vehicles of yore.
Automotive structures these days do a phenomenal job of dispersing energy around the passenger compartment instead of through it.
But y'know, what ever makes you feel safer.
More cold water to ya, man!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897857</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29901739</id>
	<title>Re:To be fair?</title>
	<author>Rei</author>
	<datestamp>1256763300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're right about recycling, wrong about production.  You're confusing NiMH with Li-ion.  Most of the nickel sourced for NiMH battery packs comes from the Sudbury mine in Canada.  However, it's a tiny fraction of the plant's output, and the plant is *way* cleaner than it was in the 1970s (which is where most of the "moonscape" comments trying to portray it as dirty come from).  The plant and city have actually won a number of environmental awards for their cleanup efforts.  Furthermore, *many* car parts and/or cars are shipped all over the world, so I don't see any reason to particularly harp on NiMH batteries for it.</p><p>As for lithium ion, the most important thing to realize is that, contrary to the name, lithium is only one of many components; it doesn't make up the majority of the mass or anything.  In the Roadster, the cells have a cobalt-based cathode, but in almost all other upcoming EVs, it's either an iron phosphate-based cathode or a manganate cathode.  Iron, phosphorus, and manganese are ridiculously easy raw materials to come by, as I'm sure you know (cobalt, not so much).  The anodes are generally various forms of carbon (graphite, amorphous, etc).  Tesla had to go with the cobalt-type cells (which are the same type as found in laptops) because that's all that was affordable and available in bulk when they started.</p><p>As for the lithium itself, it comes primarily from playas and salars (i.e., salt flats).  The brine is pumped up to the surface into evaporation ponds, then precipitated to isolate the individual salts; the remaining brine is returned to the subsurface, minus whatever salts are of commercial viability.  It's a very low impact production process -- much less than, say, iron mining and smelting for parts for internal combustion engines<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;).  There are also some other types of lithium resources that are starting to reach commercial viability; ultimately, if needed, we can recover lithium straight from seawater.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're right about recycling , wrong about production .
You 're confusing NiMH with Li-ion .
Most of the nickel sourced for NiMH battery packs comes from the Sudbury mine in Canada .
However , it 's a tiny fraction of the plant 's output , and the plant is * way * cleaner than it was in the 1970s ( which is where most of the " moonscape " comments trying to portray it as dirty come from ) .
The plant and city have actually won a number of environmental awards for their cleanup efforts .
Furthermore , * many * car parts and/or cars are shipped all over the world , so I do n't see any reason to particularly harp on NiMH batteries for it.As for lithium ion , the most important thing to realize is that , contrary to the name , lithium is only one of many components ; it does n't make up the majority of the mass or anything .
In the Roadster , the cells have a cobalt-based cathode , but in almost all other upcoming EVs , it 's either an iron phosphate-based cathode or a manganate cathode .
Iron , phosphorus , and manganese are ridiculously easy raw materials to come by , as I 'm sure you know ( cobalt , not so much ) .
The anodes are generally various forms of carbon ( graphite , amorphous , etc ) .
Tesla had to go with the cobalt-type cells ( which are the same type as found in laptops ) because that 's all that was affordable and available in bulk when they started.As for the lithium itself , it comes primarily from playas and salars ( i.e. , salt flats ) .
The brine is pumped up to the surface into evaporation ponds , then precipitated to isolate the individual salts ; the remaining brine is returned to the subsurface , minus whatever salts are of commercial viability .
It 's a very low impact production process -- much less than , say , iron mining and smelting for parts for internal combustion engines ; ) .
There are also some other types of lithium resources that are starting to reach commercial viability ; ultimately , if needed , we can recover lithium straight from seawater .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're right about recycling, wrong about production.
You're confusing NiMH with Li-ion.
Most of the nickel sourced for NiMH battery packs comes from the Sudbury mine in Canada.
However, it's a tiny fraction of the plant's output, and the plant is *way* cleaner than it was in the 1970s (which is where most of the "moonscape" comments trying to portray it as dirty come from).
The plant and city have actually won a number of environmental awards for their cleanup efforts.
Furthermore, *many* car parts and/or cars are shipped all over the world, so I don't see any reason to particularly harp on NiMH batteries for it.As for lithium ion, the most important thing to realize is that, contrary to the name, lithium is only one of many components; it doesn't make up the majority of the mass or anything.
In the Roadster, the cells have a cobalt-based cathode, but in almost all other upcoming EVs, it's either an iron phosphate-based cathode or a manganate cathode.
Iron, phosphorus, and manganese are ridiculously easy raw materials to come by, as I'm sure you know (cobalt, not so much).
The anodes are generally various forms of carbon (graphite, amorphous, etc).
Tesla had to go with the cobalt-type cells (which are the same type as found in laptops) because that's all that was affordable and available in bulk when they started.As for the lithium itself, it comes primarily from playas and salars (i.e., salt flats).
The brine is pumped up to the surface into evaporation ponds, then precipitated to isolate the individual salts; the remaining brine is returned to the subsurface, minus whatever salts are of commercial viability.
It's a very low impact production process -- much less than, say, iron mining and smelting for parts for internal combustion engines ;).
There are also some other types of lithium resources that are starting to reach commercial viability; ultimately, if needed, we can recover lithium straight from seawater.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896667</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Tim4444</author>
	<datestamp>1256742180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does every car have to be general purpose? People don't complain that the Mini Cooper can't hold a family of 6 or haul their 5th wheel. They know it has a purpose and a niche and get over it. Anyone who can afford a Tesla probably has multiple vehicles as does the average middle class family. Now, brace yourself. It's possible to own an electric car and a gas car. wow. Don't give me this soviet russia 'one car for everyone and every purpose' bs. I want choices. A lot of families own at least one car that they never drive more than 300 miles in a single day. Some people will choose a car that never needs to go to the gas station, never needs oil changes, and works great for all their local commuting.<p><div class="quote"><p>I had assumed that with all the talk of new technology</p></div><p>Next time try reading up on it instead. Some people assumed with all the talk of new technology that by the year 2000 we'd all be driving flying cars and we'd have colonies on the moon...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does every car have to be general purpose ?
People do n't complain that the Mini Cooper ca n't hold a family of 6 or haul their 5th wheel .
They know it has a purpose and a niche and get over it .
Anyone who can afford a Tesla probably has multiple vehicles as does the average middle class family .
Now , brace yourself .
It 's possible to own an electric car and a gas car .
wow. Do n't give me this soviet russia 'one car for everyone and every purpose ' bs .
I want choices .
A lot of families own at least one car that they never drive more than 300 miles in a single day .
Some people will choose a car that never needs to go to the gas station , never needs oil changes , and works great for all their local commuting.I had assumed that with all the talk of new technologyNext time try reading up on it instead .
Some people assumed with all the talk of new technology that by the year 2000 we 'd all be driving flying cars and we 'd have colonies on the moon.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does every car have to be general purpose?
People don't complain that the Mini Cooper can't hold a family of 6 or haul their 5th wheel.
They know it has a purpose and a niche and get over it.
Anyone who can afford a Tesla probably has multiple vehicles as does the average middle class family.
Now, brace yourself.
It's possible to own an electric car and a gas car.
wow. Don't give me this soviet russia 'one car for everyone and every purpose' bs.
I want choices.
A lot of families own at least one car that they never drive more than 300 miles in a single day.
Some people will choose a car that never needs to go to the gas station, never needs oil changes, and works great for all their local commuting.I had assumed that with all the talk of new technologyNext time try reading up on it instead.
Some people assumed with all the talk of new technology that by the year 2000 we'd all be driving flying cars and we'd have colonies on the moon...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29904385</id>
	<title>Re:To be fair?</title>
	<author>Sulphur</author>
	<datestamp>1256734380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They shouldn't make them go so fast.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They should n't make them go so fast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They shouldn't make them go so fast.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896201</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898103</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>Wonko the Sane</author>
	<datestamp>1256747880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Hey dipwad Local driving = 35mph or LESS</p></div></blockquote><p>My job is 7 miles from my apartment and about 5 of those miles are driven on a highway at 70 MPH.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey dipwad Local driving = 35mph or LESSMy job is 7 miles from my apartment and about 5 of those miles are driven on a highway at 70 MPH .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey dipwad Local driving = 35mph or LESSMy job is 7 miles from my apartment and about 5 of those miles are driven on a highway at 70 MPH.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897537</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899461</id>
	<title>Re:To be fair?</title>
	<author>eleuthero</author>
	<datestamp>1256753880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lithium batteries are recyclable almost completely. Lead-acid batteries have been recycled by law in the US for several years (decades?) with a fee if you try to avoid recycling them. The issue is not the impact of non-recycled lithium batteries but rather the impact of their initial production (which involves mining in Canada, shipment to China for processing, shipment to Japan for battery assembly, and then shipment to the US / Canada / Wherever for installation into the car / shipment to point of sale). This is based off of a Forbes article and a recent discussion with an engineering friend, so I may be off on some of the details.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lithium batteries are recyclable almost completely .
Lead-acid batteries have been recycled by law in the US for several years ( decades ?
) with a fee if you try to avoid recycling them .
The issue is not the impact of non-recycled lithium batteries but rather the impact of their initial production ( which involves mining in Canada , shipment to China for processing , shipment to Japan for battery assembly , and then shipment to the US / Canada / Wherever for installation into the car / shipment to point of sale ) .
This is based off of a Forbes article and a recent discussion with an engineering friend , so I may be off on some of the details .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lithium batteries are recyclable almost completely.
Lead-acid batteries have been recycled by law in the US for several years (decades?
) with a fee if you try to avoid recycling them.
The issue is not the impact of non-recycled lithium batteries but rather the impact of their initial production (which involves mining in Canada, shipment to China for processing, shipment to Japan for battery assembly, and then shipment to the US / Canada / Wherever for installation into the car / shipment to point of sale).
This is based off of a Forbes article and a recent discussion with an engineering friend, so I may be off on some of the details.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896993</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897613</id>
	<title>Real Rayce is Solar Only</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256745960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World\_Solar\_Challenge" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World\_Solar\_Challenge</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World \ _Solar \ _Challenge [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World\_Solar\_Challenge [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896169</id>
	<title>Frist Prost!!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256740320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Frist Prost !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p><p>And Internode rox as an ISP.. !!!!!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Frist Prost ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
! And Internode rox as an ISP. .
! ! ! ! ! : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Frist Prost !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!And Internode rox as an ISP..
!!!!! :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898267</id>
	<title>Re:390km per charge?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256748600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>to the firkin</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>to the firkin</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to the firkin</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896819</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896625</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256742000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even if there was 0\% coming from clean power, the efficiency rate of electric cars is such that fewer emissions are put out per mile from a coal power plant fueled electric car than a gas burning regular car.  The sad fact is that gasoline combustion  engines are not very efficient with their fuel, whereas electric are much more so.</p><p>Also, do you just think that suddenly in 1 year everyone will just be driving electrics with no chance for the grid to adapt?  It is these "lets take todays infrastructure and apply some hypothetical load to it" guesses that just drive me nuts.  As people switch to electric, obviously the grid will be expanded to handle the new load.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if there was 0 \ % coming from clean power , the efficiency rate of electric cars is such that fewer emissions are put out per mile from a coal power plant fueled electric car than a gas burning regular car .
The sad fact is that gasoline combustion engines are not very efficient with their fuel , whereas electric are much more so.Also , do you just think that suddenly in 1 year everyone will just be driving electrics with no chance for the grid to adapt ?
It is these " lets take todays infrastructure and apply some hypothetical load to it " guesses that just drive me nuts .
As people switch to electric , obviously the grid will be expanded to handle the new load .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if there was 0\% coming from clean power, the efficiency rate of electric cars is such that fewer emissions are put out per mile from a coal power plant fueled electric car than a gas burning regular car.
The sad fact is that gasoline combustion  engines are not very efficient with their fuel, whereas electric are much more so.Also, do you just think that suddenly in 1 year everyone will just be driving electrics with no chance for the grid to adapt?
It is these "lets take todays infrastructure and apply some hypothetical load to it" guesses that just drive me nuts.
As people switch to electric, obviously the grid will be expanded to handle the new load.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29902177</id>
	<title>Just remember</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256722080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The obama administration is talking about a "smart power" rewiring of the electric power lines. They plan on being able to remotely control when you can run your dishwasher.<br>Now, with these worries about the limited power concerns, where do all these electric cars fit in?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The obama administration is talking about a " smart power " rewiring of the electric power lines .
They plan on being able to remotely control when you can run your dishwasher.Now , with these worries about the limited power concerns , where do all these electric cars fit in ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The obama administration is talking about a "smart power" rewiring of the electric power lines.
They plan on being able to remotely control when you can run your dishwasher.Now, with these worries about the limited power concerns, where do all these electric cars fit in?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896491</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>LordVader717</author>
	<datestamp>1256741520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x73Z6ndtjE#t=52" title="youtube.com">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x73Z6ndtjE#t=52</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = 7x73Z6ndtjE # t = 52 [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x73Z6ndtjE#t=52 [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898825</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Overzeetop</author>
	<datestamp>1256751060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, but it only costs a shade over $5 to fill the Tesla's "tank" in my city. How much are you paying for 15 gallons of gas?</p><p>Not saying that you'll ever break even - you won't - but there is a bit of a difference.  Now, should you want to compare any other sub-4 sec 0-60 2 seat roadster to the Tesla, I believe we may make a more accurate comparison.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , but it only costs a shade over $ 5 to fill the Tesla 's " tank " in my city .
How much are you paying for 15 gallons of gas ? Not saying that you 'll ever break even - you wo n't - but there is a bit of a difference .
Now , should you want to compare any other sub-4 sec 0-60 2 seat roadster to the Tesla , I believe we may make a more accurate comparison .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, but it only costs a shade over $5 to fill the Tesla's "tank" in my city.
How much are you paying for 15 gallons of gas?Not saying that you'll ever break even - you won't - but there is a bit of a difference.
Now, should you want to compare any other sub-4 sec 0-60 2 seat roadster to the Tesla, I believe we may make a more accurate comparison.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897295</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Red Flayer</author>
	<datestamp>1256744700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Now, brace yourself. It's possible to own an electric car and a gas car. wow. Don't give me this soviet russia 'one car for everyone and every purpose' bs. I want choices. A lot of families own at least one car that they never drive more than 300 miles in a single day. Some people will choose a car that never needs to go to the gas station, never needs oil changes, and works great for all their local commuting.</p></div></blockquote><p>Why not just rent a specialized vehicle when you need one?  <br> <br>Hauling stuff to the dump / stuff from Home Depot / stuff from a big box store?  Rent a van for $20.  <br>Traveling a few states to visit family?  Taking a long road trip?  Rent an appropriate car.<br> <br>The little extra utility most people get on rare occasion from having a Canyonero (or even a smaller SUV/minivan) is ridiculous... far better fiscally to drive a commuter car and rent a special purpose car when one is needed.  Especially once you factor in wear-and-tear from those "special need" trips.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now , brace yourself .
It 's possible to own an electric car and a gas car .
wow. Do n't give me this soviet russia 'one car for everyone and every purpose ' bs .
I want choices .
A lot of families own at least one car that they never drive more than 300 miles in a single day .
Some people will choose a car that never needs to go to the gas station , never needs oil changes , and works great for all their local commuting.Why not just rent a specialized vehicle when you need one ?
Hauling stuff to the dump / stuff from Home Depot / stuff from a big box store ?
Rent a van for $ 20 .
Traveling a few states to visit family ?
Taking a long road trip ?
Rent an appropriate car .
The little extra utility most people get on rare occasion from having a Canyonero ( or even a smaller SUV/minivan ) is ridiculous... far better fiscally to drive a commuter car and rent a special purpose car when one is needed .
Especially once you factor in wear-and-tear from those " special need " trips .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now, brace yourself.
It's possible to own an electric car and a gas car.
wow. Don't give me this soviet russia 'one car for everyone and every purpose' bs.
I want choices.
A lot of families own at least one car that they never drive more than 300 miles in a single day.
Some people will choose a car that never needs to go to the gas station, never needs oil changes, and works great for all their local commuting.Why not just rent a specialized vehicle when you need one?
Hauling stuff to the dump / stuff from Home Depot / stuff from a big box store?
Rent a van for $20.
Traveling a few states to visit family?
Taking a long road trip?
Rent an appropriate car.
The little extra utility most people get on rare occasion from having a Canyonero (or even a smaller SUV/minivan) is ridiculous... far better fiscally to drive a commuter car and rent a special purpose car when one is needed.
Especially once you factor in wear-and-tear from those "special need" trips.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896667</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896325</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256740860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> average speed was at about 55 km/h, which is pretty decent...</p></div></blockquote><p>Only if by "pretty decent" you mean half the speed of a gasoline-powered car.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>average speed was at about 55 km/h , which is pretty decent...Only if by " pretty decent " you mean half the speed of a gasoline-powered car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> average speed was at about 55 km/h, which is pretty decent...Only if by "pretty decent" you mean half the speed of a gasoline-powered car.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896245</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256745240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good luck putting 53kWh of energy into a battery in "a matter of minutes".
</p><p>
Technically, Lithium batteries can be charged to 80\% capacity in only a half hour. The main reason for the Roadster's slow charging is that household plugs can't output more than 1800 Watts for a standard socket, at that rate it would take 30 hours to charge the Roadster.
</p><p>
If you wanted to charge it within 1 hour, you would need a 53000W power source, that's about 240Amps@220Volt, 480Amps@110Volts. Considering that the main circuit breaker to my house is rated 200Amps, I could never charge the Tesla at my house in 1 hour, even if it had super capacitors or whatever else you wanted.
</p><p>
If you want to charge it in "a matter of minutes", say 10 minutes, you would need a 318000Watt power source. If you wanted to charge your car in 3 minutes, you would need a megawatt power supply... for that you'd need a dedicated power station to supply this kind of power otherwise the whole city would have a brownout every time some prick decides to recharge his Tesla. I don't know about where you live, but there aren't dedicated electric stations that can supply a megawatt of power anywhere near my house.
</p><p>
So: batteries? supercapacitors? ultracapacitors? it doesn't matter the least bit if you don't have the power infrastructure to charge it.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good luck putting 53kWh of energy into a battery in " a matter of minutes " .
Technically , Lithium batteries can be charged to 80 \ % capacity in only a half hour .
The main reason for the Roadster 's slow charging is that household plugs ca n't output more than 1800 Watts for a standard socket , at that rate it would take 30 hours to charge the Roadster .
If you wanted to charge it within 1 hour , you would need a 53000W power source , that 's about 240Amps @ 220Volt , 480Amps @ 110Volts .
Considering that the main circuit breaker to my house is rated 200Amps , I could never charge the Tesla at my house in 1 hour , even if it had super capacitors or whatever else you wanted .
If you want to charge it in " a matter of minutes " , say 10 minutes , you would need a 318000Watt power source .
If you wanted to charge your car in 3 minutes , you would need a megawatt power supply... for that you 'd need a dedicated power station to supply this kind of power otherwise the whole city would have a brownout every time some prick decides to recharge his Tesla .
I do n't know about where you live , but there are n't dedicated electric stations that can supply a megawatt of power anywhere near my house .
So : batteries ?
supercapacitors ? ultracapacitors ?
it does n't matter the least bit if you do n't have the power infrastructure to charge it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good luck putting 53kWh of energy into a battery in "a matter of minutes".
Technically, Lithium batteries can be charged to 80\% capacity in only a half hour.
The main reason for the Roadster's slow charging is that household plugs can't output more than 1800 Watts for a standard socket, at that rate it would take 30 hours to charge the Roadster.
If you wanted to charge it within 1 hour, you would need a 53000W power source, that's about 240Amps@220Volt, 480Amps@110Volts.
Considering that the main circuit breaker to my house is rated 200Amps, I could never charge the Tesla at my house in 1 hour, even if it had super capacitors or whatever else you wanted.
If you want to charge it in "a matter of minutes", say 10 minutes, you would need a 318000Watt power source.
If you wanted to charge your car in 3 minutes, you would need a megawatt power supply... for that you'd need a dedicated power station to supply this kind of power otherwise the whole city would have a brownout every time some prick decides to recharge his Tesla.
I don't know about where you live, but there aren't dedicated electric stations that can supply a megawatt of power anywhere near my house.
So: batteries?
supercapacitors? ultracapacitors?
it doesn't matter the least bit if you don't have the power infrastructure to charge it.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896475</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897591</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Lumpy</author>
	<datestamp>1256745840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly! even "green/renewable" companies and buildings are HOSTILE to electric cars.   I work at the GVSU renewable energy building in west michigan.  Is there a place for me to plug in my electric car?  nope.   They have solar, a microturbine and a natural gas fuel cell that can power a small town...  they wont let me plug in and charge my electric.  it's against "building policy"</p><p>It will require forcing building owners to stop being jerks as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly !
even " green/renewable " companies and buildings are HOSTILE to electric cars .
I work at the GVSU renewable energy building in west michigan .
Is there a place for me to plug in my electric car ?
nope. They have solar , a microturbine and a natural gas fuel cell that can power a small town... they wont let me plug in and charge my electric .
it 's against " building policy " It will require forcing building owners to stop being jerks as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly!
even "green/renewable" companies and buildings are HOSTILE to electric cars.
I work at the GVSU renewable energy building in west michigan.
Is there a place for me to plug in my electric car?
nope.   They have solar, a microturbine and a natural gas fuel cell that can power a small town...  they wont let me plug in and charge my electric.
it's against "building policy"It will require forcing building owners to stop being jerks as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897059</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897757</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>TooMuchToDo</author>
	<datestamp>1256746500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>According to a report from the U.S. Department of Energy, off-peak capacity of the grid could satisfy the charging needs of a car fleet that is more than 70 percent plug-in hybrids. So what is this "massive costs needed to upgrade the aginging energy grid" you speak of?</htmltext>
<tokenext>According to a report from the U.S. Department of Energy , off-peak capacity of the grid could satisfy the charging needs of a car fleet that is more than 70 percent plug-in hybrids .
So what is this " massive costs needed to upgrade the aginging energy grid " you speak of ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to a report from the U.S. Department of Energy, off-peak capacity of the grid could satisfy the charging needs of a car fleet that is more than 70 percent plug-in hybrids.
So what is this "massive costs needed to upgrade the aginging energy grid" you speak of?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896319</id>
	<title>Now THAT is an electric car.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256740860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>501km = 311 miles, about the range most gasoline vehicles get on a tank of gas. If it was affordable, this would definitely make a viable replacement for a petroleum fueled vehicle. Now, if we could just do something about the cost of the batteries so that average people could buy one...</htmltext>
<tokenext>501km = 311 miles , about the range most gasoline vehicles get on a tank of gas .
If it was affordable , this would definitely make a viable replacement for a petroleum fueled vehicle .
Now , if we could just do something about the cost of the batteries so that average people could buy one.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>501km = 311 miles, about the range most gasoline vehicles get on a tank of gas.
If it was affordable, this would definitely make a viable replacement for a petroleum fueled vehicle.
Now, if we could just do something about the cost of the batteries so that average people could buy one...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896981</id>
	<title>a mixture of twists, turns and hills</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1256743380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>All downhill?</htmltext>
<tokenext>All downhill ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All downhill?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897635</id>
	<title>Re:Now THAT is an electric car.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256746080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or buy a lotus elise and have the same car with more performance and can be refueled at any gas station for 1/2 the money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or buy a lotus elise and have the same car with more performance and can be refueled at any gas station for 1/2 the money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or buy a lotus elise and have the same car with more performance and can be refueled at any gas station for 1/2 the money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897177</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898411</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>tekrat</author>
	<datestamp>1256749200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't think of a single car $100,000 or over that *is* general purpose. The Bugatti Veyron isn't exactly a family hauler, a Corvette isn't going to lug home a couch, and a Ferrari can barely hold your golf clubs.</p><p>Maybe Mercedes builds a $100k+ vehicle that's general purpose, and large trucks exist over 100k (but you don't normally take the diesel semi to go to the supermarket and get groceries), but the "general purpose" car category exists in the 20k to 50k price range.</p><p>Everything else is too cheap/small, or too expensive and targeted as rich people toys.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't think of a single car $ 100,000 or over that * is * general purpose .
The Bugatti Veyron is n't exactly a family hauler , a Corvette is n't going to lug home a couch , and a Ferrari can barely hold your golf clubs.Maybe Mercedes builds a $ 100k + vehicle that 's general purpose , and large trucks exist over 100k ( but you do n't normally take the diesel semi to go to the supermarket and get groceries ) , but the " general purpose " car category exists in the 20k to 50k price range.Everything else is too cheap/small , or too expensive and targeted as rich people toys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't think of a single car $100,000 or over that *is* general purpose.
The Bugatti Veyron isn't exactly a family hauler, a Corvette isn't going to lug home a couch, and a Ferrari can barely hold your golf clubs.Maybe Mercedes builds a $100k+ vehicle that's general purpose, and large trucks exist over 100k (but you don't normally take the diesel semi to go to the supermarket and get groceries), but the "general purpose" car category exists in the 20k to 50k price range.Everything else is too cheap/small, or too expensive and targeted as rich people toys.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29902917</id>
	<title>really, check out the link</title>
	<author>zogger</author>
	<datestamp>1256725980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Someone up above provided it, and I have said this for years as well: the solution right now for extended range with the electric vehicle, for the occasional longer trip, until batteries or ultracaps get a lot better, is the "modular hybrid" approach, just like this</p><p><a href="http://www.evnut.com/rav\_longranger.htm" title="evnut.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.evnut.com/rav\_longranger.htm</a> [evnut.com]</p><p>Problem solved, no need to worry about long recharge scenarios or that tarded battery swap out idea. And just a ton of suburban guys who commute and *could* do that in an electric car with even just a 50 mile range, also want (and buy today) a home generator for the occasional use when the power goes out, so this is double plus good there. And for city boys with no garage who live in apartments, who want an electric, these genny trailers could be *rented* for that trip to grannys.</p><p>The only thing I would do different with those trailers is make them a scosh bigger with some additional cargo room for that long trip, for your luggage and camping gear or whatever.</p><p>One of the really big expenses for adoption of the all electric at a more normal non millionaire pricing level is the insane battery prices. Reduce the needs from a 30 grand battery pack to 5 grand (something like that), be content with just a 50 mile day to day range, with the genny option, bought or rented, and the actual car can be made loads cheaper, and smallish gas gennys just aren't all that expensive (especially if they were to become common for this purpose and mass produced), and most likely only being used half a dozen times a year they would last a really long time.</p><p>I think on board hybrids are a dead end, that's just too much weight and complexity having to haul around two different styles of drivetrains all the time on the same axles. All electric + the modular "makes it a hybrid" genny trailer is the way to go.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Someone up above provided it , and I have said this for years as well : the solution right now for extended range with the electric vehicle , for the occasional longer trip , until batteries or ultracaps get a lot better , is the " modular hybrid " approach , just like thishttp : //www.evnut.com/rav \ _longranger.htm [ evnut.com ] Problem solved , no need to worry about long recharge scenarios or that tarded battery swap out idea .
And just a ton of suburban guys who commute and * could * do that in an electric car with even just a 50 mile range , also want ( and buy today ) a home generator for the occasional use when the power goes out , so this is double plus good there .
And for city boys with no garage who live in apartments , who want an electric , these genny trailers could be * rented * for that trip to grannys.The only thing I would do different with those trailers is make them a scosh bigger with some additional cargo room for that long trip , for your luggage and camping gear or whatever.One of the really big expenses for adoption of the all electric at a more normal non millionaire pricing level is the insane battery prices .
Reduce the needs from a 30 grand battery pack to 5 grand ( something like that ) , be content with just a 50 mile day to day range , with the genny option , bought or rented , and the actual car can be made loads cheaper , and smallish gas gennys just are n't all that expensive ( especially if they were to become common for this purpose and mass produced ) , and most likely only being used half a dozen times a year they would last a really long time.I think on board hybrids are a dead end , that 's just too much weight and complexity having to haul around two different styles of drivetrains all the time on the same axles .
All electric + the modular " makes it a hybrid " genny trailer is the way to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Someone up above provided it, and I have said this for years as well: the solution right now for extended range with the electric vehicle, for the occasional longer trip, until batteries or ultracaps get a lot better, is the "modular hybrid" approach, just like thishttp://www.evnut.com/rav\_longranger.htm [evnut.com]Problem solved, no need to worry about long recharge scenarios or that tarded battery swap out idea.
And just a ton of suburban guys who commute and *could* do that in an electric car with even just a 50 mile range, also want (and buy today) a home generator for the occasional use when the power goes out, so this is double plus good there.
And for city boys with no garage who live in apartments, who want an electric, these genny trailers could be *rented* for that trip to grannys.The only thing I would do different with those trailers is make them a scosh bigger with some additional cargo room for that long trip, for your luggage and camping gear or whatever.One of the really big expenses for adoption of the all electric at a more normal non millionaire pricing level is the insane battery prices.
Reduce the needs from a 30 grand battery pack to 5 grand (something like that), be content with just a 50 mile day to day range, with the genny option, bought or rented, and the actual car can be made loads cheaper, and smallish gas gennys just aren't all that expensive (especially if they were to become common for this purpose and mass produced), and most likely only being used half a dozen times a year they would last a really long time.I think on board hybrids are a dead end, that's just too much weight and complexity having to haul around two different styles of drivetrains all the time on the same axles.
All electric + the modular "makes it a hybrid" genny trailer is the way to go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897059</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898493</id>
	<title>Re:Now THAT is an electric car.</title>
	<author>servies</author>
	<datestamp>1256749500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not sure where you're living but here the average car does a bit more on a tank of gas... 700 to 800 is more realistic around here....<br>I wouldn't even buy a car which only does 500km on 1 tank of gas...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure where you 're living but here the average car does a bit more on a tank of gas... 700 to 800 is more realistic around here....I would n't even buy a car which only does 500km on 1 tank of gas.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure where you're living but here the average car does a bit more on a tank of gas... 700 to 800 is more realistic around here....I wouldn't even buy a car which only does 500km on 1 tank of gas...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896319</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897267</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>vlm</author>
	<datestamp>1256744580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Caps recharge in a matter of minutes... almost like a traditional gas n' go.</p></div><p>A gas pump nozzle sprays gas at about the thermal equivalent of a megawatt-class electrical plug, more or less.</p><p>I won't bore you with the chemical engineering thermodynamics and electrical engineering details, but just think about it, if you can burn a huge tank of gas in a generator for hours on end to continuously generate lots of kilowatts, then filling the empty tank in seconds would seem to imply megawatts of power transfer...</p><p>Megawatt-level quick disconnect plugs are not a common mass produced device.  Your average retard won't last long while trying to use one, either.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>And they last a lot longer with less environmental headaches for disposal.</p></div><p>PCBs make nice capacitor dielectrics, not so super environmental contaminants.  Seems a little preliminary to declare not only will something be invented, but when it's invented it'll also be super environmental, just because that would be nice if it were true.</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlorinated\_biphenyl" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlorinated\_biphenyl</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Caps recharge in a matter of minutes... almost like a traditional gas n ' go.A gas pump nozzle sprays gas at about the thermal equivalent of a megawatt-class electrical plug , more or less.I wo n't bore you with the chemical engineering thermodynamics and electrical engineering details , but just think about it , if you can burn a huge tank of gas in a generator for hours on end to continuously generate lots of kilowatts , then filling the empty tank in seconds would seem to imply megawatts of power transfer...Megawatt-level quick disconnect plugs are not a common mass produced device .
Your average retard wo n't last long while trying to use one , either.And they last a lot longer with less environmental headaches for disposal.PCBs make nice capacitor dielectrics , not so super environmental contaminants .
Seems a little preliminary to declare not only will something be invented , but when it 's invented it 'll also be super environmental , just because that would be nice if it were true.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlorinated \ _biphenyl [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Caps recharge in a matter of minutes... almost like a traditional gas n' go.A gas pump nozzle sprays gas at about the thermal equivalent of a megawatt-class electrical plug, more or less.I won't bore you with the chemical engineering thermodynamics and electrical engineering details, but just think about it, if you can burn a huge tank of gas in a generator for hours on end to continuously generate lots of kilowatts, then filling the empty tank in seconds would seem to imply megawatts of power transfer...Megawatt-level quick disconnect plugs are not a common mass produced device.
Your average retard won't last long while trying to use one, either.And they last a lot longer with less environmental headaches for disposal.PCBs make nice capacitor dielectrics, not so super environmental contaminants.
Seems a little preliminary to declare not only will something be invented, but when it's invented it'll also be super environmental, just because that would be nice if it were true.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlorinated\_biphenyl [wikipedia.org]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896475</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898265</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>baka\_vic</author>
	<datestamp>1256748600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty' sources, such as coal, oil and nuclear.</p></div><p>Well, it seems like in this case, it's coming from a <a href="http://blog.internode.on.net/2009/10/27/and-theyre-off/" title="on.net" rel="nofollow">giant diesel gen</a> [on.net]<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty ' sources , such as coal , oil and nuclear.Well , it seems like in this case , it 's coming from a giant diesel gen [ on.net ] ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty' sources, such as coal, oil and nuclear.Well, it seems like in this case, it's coming from a giant diesel gen [on.net] ;)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29906145</id>
	<title>Re:The truth is available with high school physics</title>
	<author>BlueParrot</author>
	<datestamp>1256746800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>After all, right now we power most of the electric grid with coal</p></div> </blockquote><p>The breakdown for electricity production in the US is as follows:</p><p>Coal: 48.9\%<br>Natural Gas: 20<br>Nuclear: 19.3\%<br>Hydro: 7\%</p><p>With the remainder being a mix of petrol and various renewables.</p><p>Thus even if we consider only CO2 your calculations would suggest that the Tesla is a lot better environmentally than conventional fuels, and this ignores the fact that large scale power plants burn more efficiently and emit less of other pollutants thanks to more efficient filtering and so on.</p><p>Thus if you consider not just CO2 but all air pollutants ( including nitrous oxides, particle emissions, various hydrocarbons etc... ) then the Tesla wins easily.</p><p>Also in other countries , like France or Sweden, very little fossils is used in electricity generation so over here the Tesla is simply superior. You guys basically need more nuclear power stations.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>After all , right now we power most of the electric grid with coal The breakdown for electricity production in the US is as follows : Coal : 48.9 \ % Natural Gas : 20Nuclear : 19.3 \ % Hydro : 7 \ % With the remainder being a mix of petrol and various renewables.Thus even if we consider only CO2 your calculations would suggest that the Tesla is a lot better environmentally than conventional fuels , and this ignores the fact that large scale power plants burn more efficiently and emit less of other pollutants thanks to more efficient filtering and so on.Thus if you consider not just CO2 but all air pollutants ( including nitrous oxides , particle emissions , various hydrocarbons etc... ) then the Tesla wins easily.Also in other countries , like France or Sweden , very little fossils is used in electricity generation so over here the Tesla is simply superior .
You guys basically need more nuclear power stations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After all, right now we power most of the electric grid with coal The breakdown for electricity production in the US is as follows:Coal: 48.9\%Natural Gas: 20Nuclear: 19.3\%Hydro: 7\%With the remainder being a mix of petrol and various renewables.Thus even if we consider only CO2 your calculations would suggest that the Tesla is a lot better environmentally than conventional fuels, and this ignores the fact that large scale power plants burn more efficiently and emit less of other pollutants thanks to more efficient filtering and so on.Thus if you consider not just CO2 but all air pollutants ( including nitrous oxides, particle emissions, various hydrocarbons etc... ) then the Tesla wins easily.Also in other countries , like France or Sweden, very little fossils is used in electricity generation so over here the Tesla is simply superior.
You guys basically need more nuclear power stations.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899427</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897537</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256745600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>(70+ mph for long trips, or 55mph for local driving)</i></p><p>So you're the retarded jerk doing 55mph in my residential areas.</p><p>Hey dipwad Local driving = 35mph or LESS</p><p>This is the part i LOVE about the economy, the cops are actually getting off their asses and pulling over the idiots that fly at 40+mph in the residential and school zones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( 70 + mph for long trips , or 55mph for local driving ) So you 're the retarded jerk doing 55mph in my residential areas.Hey dipwad Local driving = 35mph or LESSThis is the part i LOVE about the economy , the cops are actually getting off their asses and pulling over the idiots that fly at 40 + mph in the residential and school zones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(70+ mph for long trips, or 55mph for local driving)So you're the retarded jerk doing 55mph in my residential areas.Hey dipwad Local driving = 35mph or LESSThis is the part i LOVE about the economy, the cops are actually getting off their asses and pulling over the idiots that fly at 40+mph in the residential and school zones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896725</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29900485</id>
	<title>Re:To be fair?</title>
	<author>cayenne8</author>
	<datestamp>1256757720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"And has anyone investigated the environmental impact of these lithium or lead-acid buggies when they're stacking up in junk yards 20 years from now?"</i> <p>
Who cares?</p><p>
Have you seen the performance numbers on the Tesla, and how cool it looks?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" And has anyone investigated the environmental impact of these lithium or lead-acid buggies when they 're stacking up in junk yards 20 years from now ?
" Who cares ?
Have you seen the performance numbers on the Tesla , and how cool it looks ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"And has anyone investigated the environmental impact of these lithium or lead-acid buggies when they're stacking up in junk yards 20 years from now?
" 
Who cares?
Have you seen the performance numbers on the Tesla, and how cool it looks?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896993</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29908397</id>
	<title>Re:Wow for a geek site most seem anti technology</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256819280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The battery weight is all that is keeping a Tesla from blowing away a $200,000 sports car.</i></p><p>Real sports cars (not muscle cars) can be rated by their time on the Nurburgring's 20 km long Nordschleiffe.</p><p>It's not just about weight/hp ratio: weight/hp ratio is super important but there's much more than that.  Can your gearbox handle the load? (the first batch of Teslas had to have their gearbox changed because they couldn't handle the load).  Can your brakes handle the decceleration?  There's no way today's Tesla brake can match, say, a Porsche 911 GT2's ceramic braking.  How well does the car's body handle the load?</p><p>Bring your Tesla with your lighter-batteries, once they're out, to the Nurburgring and let's go for 10 laps (200 km or so) against, say, a Porsche 911 GT2 (like say the 997 GT2) or a Donkervoort D8 RS and see how well the Tesla does...</p><p>Don't get me wrong: I own a 911 Carrera and I love it, but I'm also super-excited by the Tesla.  But I wanted to point out that it's not just about weight/hp ratio: there are others factor to take into account once we're talking about sport cars able to reach around 7min30s on the Nurburgring's Nordschleiffe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The battery weight is all that is keeping a Tesla from blowing away a $ 200,000 sports car.Real sports cars ( not muscle cars ) can be rated by their time on the Nurburgring 's 20 km long Nordschleiffe.It 's not just about weight/hp ratio : weight/hp ratio is super important but there 's much more than that .
Can your gearbox handle the load ?
( the first batch of Teslas had to have their gearbox changed because they could n't handle the load ) .
Can your brakes handle the decceleration ?
There 's no way today 's Tesla brake can match , say , a Porsche 911 GT2 's ceramic braking .
How well does the car 's body handle the load ? Bring your Tesla with your lighter-batteries , once they 're out , to the Nurburgring and let 's go for 10 laps ( 200 km or so ) against , say , a Porsche 911 GT2 ( like say the 997 GT2 ) or a Donkervoort D8 RS and see how well the Tesla does...Do n't get me wrong : I own a 911 Carrera and I love it , but I 'm also super-excited by the Tesla .
But I wanted to point out that it 's not just about weight/hp ratio : there are others factor to take into account once we 're talking about sport cars able to reach around 7min30s on the Nurburgring 's Nordschleiffe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The battery weight is all that is keeping a Tesla from blowing away a $200,000 sports car.Real sports cars (not muscle cars) can be rated by their time on the Nurburgring's 20 km long Nordschleiffe.It's not just about weight/hp ratio: weight/hp ratio is super important but there's much more than that.
Can your gearbox handle the load?
(the first batch of Teslas had to have their gearbox changed because they couldn't handle the load).
Can your brakes handle the decceleration?
There's no way today's Tesla brake can match, say, a Porsche 911 GT2's ceramic braking.
How well does the car's body handle the load?Bring your Tesla with your lighter-batteries, once they're out, to the Nurburgring and let's go for 10 laps (200 km or so) against, say, a Porsche 911 GT2 (like say the 997 GT2) or a Donkervoort D8 RS and see how well the Tesla does...Don't get me wrong: I own a 911 Carrera and I love it, but I'm also super-excited by the Tesla.
But I wanted to point out that it's not just about weight/hp ratio: there are others factor to take into account once we're talking about sport cars able to reach around 7min30s on the Nurburgring's Nordschleiffe.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898049</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898587</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>JesseMcDonald</author>
	<datestamp>1256749980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, fast charging would take an unreasonable amount of power if you're just plugging it into a standard outlet. However, you don't need that kind of power 24/7&mdash;just for the 10 minutes during which you're charging the vehicle. That implies some kind of buffering; you have a local power station that draws about 10 amps @ 220 volt to recharge its internal capacitors over a 24-hour period, and then dumps all that energy into the vehicle's batteries on demand. A trivial implementation of this would be to have two sets of batteries, one slow-charging and one in use, and just swap them when the in-use batteries are drained. This could reasonably be made a 10-minute job with an efficient design.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , fast charging would take an unreasonable amount of power if you 're just plugging it into a standard outlet .
However , you do n't need that kind of power 24/7    just for the 10 minutes during which you 're charging the vehicle .
That implies some kind of buffering ; you have a local power station that draws about 10 amps @ 220 volt to recharge its internal capacitors over a 24-hour period , and then dumps all that energy into the vehicle 's batteries on demand .
A trivial implementation of this would be to have two sets of batteries , one slow-charging and one in use , and just swap them when the in-use batteries are drained .
This could reasonably be made a 10-minute job with an efficient design .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, fast charging would take an unreasonable amount of power if you're just plugging it into a standard outlet.
However, you don't need that kind of power 24/7—just for the 10 minutes during which you're charging the vehicle.
That implies some kind of buffering; you have a local power station that draws about 10 amps @ 220 volt to recharge its internal capacitors over a 24-hour period, and then dumps all that energy into the vehicle's batteries on demand.
A trivial implementation of this would be to have two sets of batteries, one slow-charging and one in use, and just swap them when the in-use batteries are drained.
This could reasonably be made a 10-minute job with an efficient design.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29902635</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>Fizzl</author>
	<datestamp>1256724540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, I first glanced "55 miles/h" and thought, 'wow, that's pretty nice'. However, hell if I want a sports car to drive 55km/h<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , I first glanced " 55 miles/h " and thought , 'wow , that 's pretty nice' .
However , hell if I want a sports car to drive 55km/h : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, I first glanced "55 miles/h" and thought, 'wow, that's pretty nice'.
However, hell if I want a sports car to drive 55km/h :P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898045</id>
	<title>Well really...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256747580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually it seems the event mentioned was more of a test how the cars would perform under normal driving conditions than a race.  I invite any and all readers to watch the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car".  There are several web site where you can watch this interesting video, it can be rented from NEtflix, and it is available for sale online.</p><p>The documentary details how the very successful GM EV1 electric car (and others) were killed by the automotive industry and the oil industry.   I truly believe that if sales and research and development of electric cars had continued, today we would have practical and affordable electric cars available to pretty much everyone.  If you watch the video, pay particular attention to the fact that Chevron now owns (and is sitting on) the patent to the highly efficient NiMH batteries that were used in some electric cars at that time   According to the statement of a Chevron employee, Chevron is determined never to let these highly efficient batteries power any electric car again.</p><p>Just another case of the patent system being abused to the detriment of of consumers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually it seems the event mentioned was more of a test how the cars would perform under normal driving conditions than a race .
I invite any and all readers to watch the documentary " Who Killed the Electric Car " .
There are several web site where you can watch this interesting video , it can be rented from NEtflix , and it is available for sale online.The documentary details how the very successful GM EV1 electric car ( and others ) were killed by the automotive industry and the oil industry .
I truly believe that if sales and research and development of electric cars had continued , today we would have practical and affordable electric cars available to pretty much everyone .
If you watch the video , pay particular attention to the fact that Chevron now owns ( and is sitting on ) the patent to the highly efficient NiMH batteries that were used in some electric cars at that time According to the statement of a Chevron employee , Chevron is determined never to let these highly efficient batteries power any electric car again.Just another case of the patent system being abused to the detriment of of consumers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually it seems the event mentioned was more of a test how the cars would perform under normal driving conditions than a race.
I invite any and all readers to watch the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car".
There are several web site where you can watch this interesting video, it can be rented from NEtflix, and it is available for sale online.The documentary details how the very successful GM EV1 electric car (and others) were killed by the automotive industry and the oil industry.
I truly believe that if sales and research and development of electric cars had continued, today we would have practical and affordable electric cars available to pretty much everyone.
If you watch the video, pay particular attention to the fact that Chevron now owns (and is sitting on) the patent to the highly efficient NiMH batteries that were used in some electric cars at that time   According to the statement of a Chevron employee, Chevron is determined never to let these highly efficient batteries power any electric car again.Just another case of the patent system being abused to the detriment of of consumers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</id>
	<title>That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1256740740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>313 miles is almost exactly the range of my '99 Subaru Outback Legacy (15-gallon tank), which is worth about $2500 now.  Except I can easily refuel that and keep going.  The trip to my folks' house is 365 miles.</p><p>I had assumed that with all the talk of new technology Tesla was going to be comparable with the hybrids.  This article helps re-adjust my expectations, but it also gives me hope that by time they're generally affordable the range will be there too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>313 miles is almost exactly the range of my '99 Subaru Outback Legacy ( 15-gallon tank ) , which is worth about $ 2500 now .
Except I can easily refuel that and keep going .
The trip to my folks ' house is 365 miles.I had assumed that with all the talk of new technology Tesla was going to be comparable with the hybrids .
This article helps re-adjust my expectations , but it also gives me hope that by time they 're generally affordable the range will be there too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>313 miles is almost exactly the range of my '99 Subaru Outback Legacy (15-gallon tank), which is worth about $2500 now.
Except I can easily refuel that and keep going.
The trip to my folks' house is 365 miles.I had assumed that with all the talk of new technology Tesla was going to be comparable with the hybrids.
This article helps re-adjust my expectations, but it also gives me hope that by time they're generally affordable the range will be there too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896223</id>
	<title>So what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256740560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Though to be fair, that race course was a mixture of twists, turns and hills</i> <br> <br> So what? You say that like they SHOULDN'T be required to handle it. Who wants a car that can't handle turns or climb hills?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Though to be fair , that race course was a mixture of twists , turns and hills So what ?
You say that like they SHOULD N'T be required to handle it .
Who wants a car that ca n't handle turns or climb hills ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Though to be fair, that race course was a mixture of twists, turns and hills   So what?
You say that like they SHOULDN'T be required to handle it.
Who wants a car that can't handle turns or climb hills?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899411</id>
	<title>Re:I'm sorry...</title>
	<author>fnj</author>
	<datestamp>1256753700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dumbass moderation, parent is not a troll, but a realist.  Just because somebody does not have starry eyes does not make them a troll.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dumbass moderation , parent is not a troll , but a realist .
Just because somebody does not have starry eyes does not make them a troll .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dumbass moderation, parent is not a troll, but a realist.
Just because somebody does not have starry eyes does not make them a troll.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896435</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899217</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>confused one</author>
	<datestamp>1256752800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, It's fair to say that a car that costs 3-4 times the average is a "specialty" car filling some niche.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , It 's fair to say that a car that costs 3-4 times the average is a " specialty " car filling some niche .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, It's fair to say that a car that costs 3-4 times the average is a "specialty" car filling some niche.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899817</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256755140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're missing a simple solution.  There's no reason why you couldn't slowly charge a capacitor in your garage while you're out.  Then when you get home, plug your car into that (instead of the wall socket) and presto.</p><p>These are simply problems waiting for solutions.  You seem to be implying that because something is difficult, we shouldn't bother trying.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're missing a simple solution .
There 's no reason why you could n't slowly charge a capacitor in your garage while you 're out .
Then when you get home , plug your car into that ( instead of the wall socket ) and presto.These are simply problems waiting for solutions .
You seem to be implying that because something is difficult , we should n't bother trying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're missing a simple solution.
There's no reason why you couldn't slowly charge a capacitor in your garage while you're out.
Then when you get home, plug your car into that (instead of the wall socket) and presto.These are simply problems waiting for solutions.
You seem to be implying that because something is difficult, we shouldn't bother trying.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29902027</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>DrVxD</author>
	<datestamp>1256721360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Yes they are. Even the most inefficient plants are still vastly more efficient than a car's engine, with transmission losses accounted for.</p></div><p>Not so "vastly" once you've taken into account the loss in the power transmission lines from the plant to the power socket, and then the mechanical loss in the electric motor. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric\_car#Energy\_efficiency" title="wikipedia.org">Wikipedia</a> [wikipedia.org] reckons that from fuel to motion, e-cars are about 20-25\% fuel-efficient - which compares pretty badly with the 45\% of modern diesels. And, of course, you can fill a diesel up pretty much anywhere.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes they are .
Even the most inefficient plants are still vastly more efficient than a car 's engine , with transmission losses accounted for.Not so " vastly " once you 've taken into account the loss in the power transmission lines from the plant to the power socket , and then the mechanical loss in the electric motor .
Wikipedia [ wikipedia.org ] reckons that from fuel to motion , e-cars are about 20-25 \ % fuel-efficient - which compares pretty badly with the 45 \ % of modern diesels .
And , of course , you can fill a diesel up pretty much anywhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes they are.
Even the most inefficient plants are still vastly more efficient than a car's engine, with transmission losses accounted for.Not so "vastly" once you've taken into account the loss in the power transmission lines from the plant to the power socket, and then the mechanical loss in the electric motor.
Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] reckons that from fuel to motion, e-cars are about 20-25\% fuel-efficient - which compares pretty badly with the 45\% of modern diesels.
And, of course, you can fill a diesel up pretty much anywhere.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896609</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897177</id>
	<title>Re:Now THAT is an electric car.</title>
	<author>Nadaka</author>
	<datestamp>1256744160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Tesla isn't exactly expensive for its class. Compare it to a high end BMW and you will see that it slightly outperforms the BMW at its price class in several areas (though range isn't one of those areas).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Tesla is n't exactly expensive for its class .
Compare it to a high end BMW and you will see that it slightly outperforms the BMW at its price class in several areas ( though range is n't one of those areas ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Tesla isn't exactly expensive for its class.
Compare it to a high end BMW and you will see that it slightly outperforms the BMW at its price class in several areas (though range isn't one of those areas).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896319</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29906241</id>
	<title>Re:When you drive an electric car...</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1256747640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, but you may dream of electric sheep.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , but you may dream of electric sheep .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, but you may dream of electric sheep.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29922615</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>spage</author>
	<datestamp>1256911140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No one is proposing fast recharge at home.  Tesla offers slow regular 110 V AC recharge, a  dedicated 240 V AC high power connector for home, and an optional portable 240V cable; the theory is you'll be home for a while, and by the next morning your tank is full.  Beyond that the upcoming Model S will also recharge from a specialized DC recharger running at around 440 V, and SAE is working on a standard design for high-voltage DC recharge.  Only dedicated charging stations would have the specialized electric supply to support this.</p><p>Also note that with battery packs, the battery should not be discharged to 0\%, because that would shorten battery life.  So even a &quot;full&quot; recharge isn't pumping in all 53 kWh.  On the other hand, fast recharge is less efficient, I think because you have to cool the battery pack.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No one is proposing fast recharge at home .
Tesla offers slow regular 110 V AC recharge , a dedicated 240 V AC high power connector for home , and an optional portable 240V cable ; the theory is you 'll be home for a while , and by the next morning your tank is full .
Beyond that the upcoming Model S will also recharge from a specialized DC recharger running at around 440 V , and SAE is working on a standard design for high-voltage DC recharge .
Only dedicated charging stations would have the specialized electric supply to support this.Also note that with battery packs , the battery should not be discharged to 0 \ % , because that would shorten battery life .
So even a " full " recharge is n't pumping in all 53 kWh .
On the other hand , fast recharge is less efficient , I think because you have to cool the battery pack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one is proposing fast recharge at home.
Tesla offers slow regular 110 V AC recharge, a  dedicated 240 V AC high power connector for home, and an optional portable 240V cable; the theory is you'll be home for a while, and by the next morning your tank is full.
Beyond that the upcoming Model S will also recharge from a specialized DC recharger running at around 440 V, and SAE is working on a standard design for high-voltage DC recharge.
Only dedicated charging stations would have the specialized electric supply to support this.Also note that with battery packs, the battery should not be discharged to 0\%, because that would shorten battery life.
So even a "full" recharge isn't pumping in all 53 kWh.
On the other hand, fast recharge is less efficient, I think because you have to cool the battery pack.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29900777</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256758920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those 'dirty' sources of electricity are still cleaner than the typical car.</p><p>Most hybrids and EVs use NiMH batteries (because Lion is still too expensive).  NiMH batteries can be *completely* recycled without any toxic waste.  Based on the Prius, they typically don't need to be replaced at any point during the lifespan of your typical car.  (That's defined as *drivable*, not *original owner*.)</p><p>Last I saw mention of it (last year, IIRC) Toyota had yet to need to replace a single Prius battery pack for any reason other than manufacturing defect or damage due to an accident.  In other words, properly constructed NiMH battery packs for the Prius are staying good right along with the cars themselves.  There was the Prius that they bought back from the NY cabbie who had put 200,000 miles on it in the first year.  It was still working beautifully, but they wanted to study an example that had gone through that sort of extreme driving, so they bought his car back and gave him a replacement (new model).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those 'dirty ' sources of electricity are still cleaner than the typical car.Most hybrids and EVs use NiMH batteries ( because Lion is still too expensive ) .
NiMH batteries can be * completely * recycled without any toxic waste .
Based on the Prius , they typically do n't need to be replaced at any point during the lifespan of your typical car .
( That 's defined as * drivable * , not * original owner * .
) Last I saw mention of it ( last year , IIRC ) Toyota had yet to need to replace a single Prius battery pack for any reason other than manufacturing defect or damage due to an accident .
In other words , properly constructed NiMH battery packs for the Prius are staying good right along with the cars themselves .
There was the Prius that they bought back from the NY cabbie who had put 200,000 miles on it in the first year .
It was still working beautifully , but they wanted to study an example that had gone through that sort of extreme driving , so they bought his car back and gave him a replacement ( new model ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those 'dirty' sources of electricity are still cleaner than the typical car.Most hybrids and EVs use NiMH batteries (because Lion is still too expensive).
NiMH batteries can be *completely* recycled without any toxic waste.
Based on the Prius, they typically don't need to be replaced at any point during the lifespan of your typical car.
(That's defined as *drivable*, not *original owner*.
)Last I saw mention of it (last year, IIRC) Toyota had yet to need to replace a single Prius battery pack for any reason other than manufacturing defect or damage due to an accident.
In other words, properly constructed NiMH battery packs for the Prius are staying good right along with the cars themselves.
There was the Prius that they bought back from the NY cabbie who had put 200,000 miles on it in the first year.
It was still working beautifully, but they wanted to study an example that had gone through that sort of extreme driving, so they bought his car back and gave him a replacement (new model).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897743</id>
	<title>Quaint</title>
	<author>clyde\_cadiddlehopper</author>
	<datestamp>1256746440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Stories like this will (soon) be as quaint as the circa 1909 stories about flivvers racing from Dover to Calais.  Will it be <a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/business/23812/" title="technologyreview.com" rel="nofollow">Zn-air batteries</a> [technologyreview.com] or fuel cells or next-gen Li ion<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Stories like this will ( soon ) be as quaint as the circa 1909 stories about flivvers racing from Dover to Calais .
Will it be Zn-air batteries [ technologyreview.com ] or fuel cells or next-gen Li ion ... ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stories like this will (soon) be as quaint as the circa 1909 stories about flivvers racing from Dover to Calais.
Will it be Zn-air batteries [technologyreview.com] or fuel cells or next-gen Li ion ... ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898751</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1256750820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What you may have missed is that Tesla is planning a family version of it.  And they're recognized as having the best technology in the field, and are getting government grants to further develop it.  That is, if Tesla can't do it, we're sure not going to expect GM to.</p><p>On the second point, if somebody is buying an electric car for sustainability reasons, they're going to want to have one car, not add to their personal fleet, especially if they're single.  One of the many follies of the much-derided cash-for-clunkers program is that the environmental costs of building a new vehicle were not considered in the justification calculations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What you may have missed is that Tesla is planning a family version of it .
And they 're recognized as having the best technology in the field , and are getting government grants to further develop it .
That is , if Tesla ca n't do it , we 're sure not going to expect GM to.On the second point , if somebody is buying an electric car for sustainability reasons , they 're going to want to have one car , not add to their personal fleet , especially if they 're single .
One of the many follies of the much-derided cash-for-clunkers program is that the environmental costs of building a new vehicle were not considered in the justification calculations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What you may have missed is that Tesla is planning a family version of it.
And they're recognized as having the best technology in the field, and are getting government grants to further develop it.
That is, if Tesla can't do it, we're sure not going to expect GM to.On the second point, if somebody is buying an electric car for sustainability reasons, they're going to want to have one car, not add to their personal fleet, especially if they're single.
One of the many follies of the much-derided cash-for-clunkers program is that the environmental costs of building a new vehicle were not considered in the justification calculations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896667</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897333</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>Rising Ape</author>
	<datestamp>1256744820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are some batteries that can charge quickly too, the problem is supplying a few thousand amps of current (for ~ 1 MW) - and that's going to be just as hard for capacitors.</p><p>Batteries also have a much higher energy density and can be (and almost always are) recycled.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are some batteries that can charge quickly too , the problem is supplying a few thousand amps of current ( for ~ 1 MW ) - and that 's going to be just as hard for capacitors.Batteries also have a much higher energy density and can be ( and almost always are ) recycled .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are some batteries that can charge quickly too, the problem is supplying a few thousand amps of current (for ~ 1 MW) - and that's going to be just as hard for capacitors.Batteries also have a much higher energy density and can be (and almost always are) recycled.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896475</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29902139</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256721900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty' sources, such as coal, oil and nuclear.  All thats happening is the carbon output of transportation is being shifted from the consumer to the manufacturer.</p></div></blockquote><p>Which is a good thing.  Consolidating the sources of pollution makes them easier to manage.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty ' sources , such as coal , oil and nuclear .
All thats happening is the carbon output of transportation is being shifted from the consumer to the manufacturer.Which is a good thing .
Consolidating the sources of pollution makes them easier to manage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty' sources, such as coal, oil and nuclear.
All thats happening is the carbon output of transportation is being shifted from the consumer to the manufacturer.Which is a good thing.
Consolidating the sources of pollution makes them easier to manage.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899323</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>otterpopjunkie</author>
	<datestamp>1256753280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Whatever the lowest rpm you can sustain in the highest gear <i>generally</i> gets the best mileage.
<br>
Older Toyota Rav4s get their best mileage at 35-45mph, because they have smaller engines than typical for that size of vehicle. But newer cars are often designed for 55-60 highway speed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Whatever the lowest rpm you can sustain in the highest gear generally gets the best mileage .
Older Toyota Rav4s get their best mileage at 35-45mph , because they have smaller engines than typical for that size of vehicle .
But newer cars are often designed for 55-60 highway speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whatever the lowest rpm you can sustain in the highest gear generally gets the best mileage.
Older Toyota Rav4s get their best mileage at 35-45mph, because they have smaller engines than typical for that size of vehicle.
But newer cars are often designed for 55-60 highway speed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897775</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896609</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256741940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes they are. Even the most inefficient plants are still vastly more efficient than a car's engine, with transmission losses accounted for.</p><blockquote><div><p>Finally, how good are the batteries for the enviornment? Can they be recycled cleanly? And how often do they need to be replaced? After a few months of steady use?</p></div></blockquote><p>Batteries are very recyclable, and are designed to last the life of the car.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes they are .
Even the most inefficient plants are still vastly more efficient than a car 's engine , with transmission losses accounted for.Finally , how good are the batteries for the enviornment ?
Can they be recycled cleanly ?
And how often do they need to be replaced ?
After a few months of steady use ? Batteries are very recyclable , and are designed to last the life of the car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes they are.
Even the most inefficient plants are still vastly more efficient than a car's engine, with transmission losses accounted for.Finally, how good are the batteries for the enviornment?
Can they be recycled cleanly?
And how often do they need to be replaced?
After a few months of steady use?Batteries are very recyclable, and are designed to last the life of the car.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896279</id>
	<title>Cool!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256740680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sure at least *one* of the four people still holding a job might be able to afford one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure at least * one * of the four people still holding a job might be able to afford one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sure at least *one* of the four people still holding a job might be able to afford one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899677</id>
	<title>Re:Now THAT is an electric car.</title>
	<author>ThatsNotPudding</author>
	<datestamp>1256754600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>311 miles only if you don't use the audio system, or the heater, or the A/C, or the cruise control, or the power steering, or the wipers, or the headlights, or...</htmltext>
<tokenext>311 miles only if you do n't use the audio system , or the heater , or the A/C , or the cruise control , or the power steering , or the wipers , or the headlights , or.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>311 miles only if you don't use the audio system, or the heater, or the A/C, or the cruise control, or the power steering, or the wipers, or the headlights, or...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896319</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896993</id>
	<title>Re:To be fair?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256743440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And has anyone investigated the environmental impact of these lithium or lead-acid buggies when they're stacking up in junk yards 20 years from now?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And has anyone investigated the environmental impact of these lithium or lead-acid buggies when they 're stacking up in junk yards 20 years from now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And has anyone investigated the environmental impact of these lithium or lead-acid buggies when they're stacking up in junk yards 20 years from now?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896201</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896475</id>
	<title>Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256741460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They need high performance super capacitors to be practical. Sure you may be able to go 313 miles on a charge, but it's a 12 hour layover while your car batteries recharge.</p><p>Caps recharge in a matter of minutes... almost like a traditional gas n' go.</p><p>And they last a lot longer with less environmental headaches for disposal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They need high performance super capacitors to be practical .
Sure you may be able to go 313 miles on a charge , but it 's a 12 hour layover while your car batteries recharge.Caps recharge in a matter of minutes... almost like a traditional gas n ' go.And they last a lot longer with less environmental headaches for disposal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They need high performance super capacitors to be practical.
Sure you may be able to go 313 miles on a charge, but it's a 12 hour layover while your car batteries recharge.Caps recharge in a matter of minutes... almost like a traditional gas n' go.And they last a lot longer with less environmental headaches for disposal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897857</id>
	<title>If crash then (crushed AND electrocuted)</title>
	<author>gestalt\_n\_pepper</author>
	<datestamp>1256746920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... because the lightweight frame will fold like a piece of tissue.</p><p>Which is why I won't buy one of these things until the frame is a carbon fiber composite stronger than steel or titanium. Expensive. In the meantime, I plan to continue to drive a gas guzzling heavy framed car that keeps me safe from the dimwitted morons on the road.</p><p>Yours truly, Mr. Cold-Water-Of-Reality-Man</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... because the lightweight frame will fold like a piece of tissue.Which is why I wo n't buy one of these things until the frame is a carbon fiber composite stronger than steel or titanium .
Expensive. In the meantime , I plan to continue to drive a gas guzzling heavy framed car that keeps me safe from the dimwitted morons on the road.Yours truly , Mr. Cold-Water-Of-Reality-Man</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... because the lightweight frame will fold like a piece of tissue.Which is why I won't buy one of these things until the frame is a carbon fiber composite stronger than steel or titanium.
Expensive. In the meantime, I plan to continue to drive a gas guzzling heavy framed car that keeps me safe from the dimwitted morons on the road.Yours truly, Mr. Cold-Water-Of-Reality-Man</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899909</id>
	<title>Re:I'm sorry...</title>
	<author>yurtinus</author>
	<datestamp>1256755500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Totally agree. No wifi. Less space than a Malibu. Lame.
<br> <br>
(/sarcasm)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Totally agree .
No wifi .
Less space than a Malibu .
Lame . ( /sarcasm )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Totally agree.
No wifi.
Less space than a Malibu.
Lame.
 
(/sarcasm)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896435</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29900261</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Amouth</author>
	<datestamp>1256756820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you hit it right on the nose - my wife and i have 3 cars.. 1 compact for her for everyday driving 1 family car for road trips and i have my old Midget which sadly being 30 years old gets better gas mileage than either the Compact or the family car (both y2000+.  i drive my small car and she drives hers - when we go on a road trip we take the family car and it works great.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you hit it right on the nose - my wife and i have 3 cars.. 1 compact for her for everyday driving 1 family car for road trips and i have my old Midget which sadly being 30 years old gets better gas mileage than either the Compact or the family car ( both y2000 + .
i drive my small car and she drives hers - when we go on a road trip we take the family car and it works great .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you hit it right on the nose - my wife and i have 3 cars.. 1 compact for her for everyday driving 1 family car for road trips and i have my old Midget which sadly being 30 years old gets better gas mileage than either the Compact or the family car (both y2000+.
i drive my small car and she drives hers - when we go on a road trip we take the family car and it works great.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896667</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897255</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>AP31R0N</author>
	<datestamp>1256744520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Yes, there are zero emissions from the tailpipe, but the electricity has to come from somewhere."</p><p>True.</p><p>But even if the volts are coming from coal, it's coal burning happening in one place where it would/should be easier to capture.  Instead of burning gas all over the place where it might be hard to capture.</p><p>i wish we weren't so afraid of the n word.  Not *that* n word, the other.</p><p>i've been saying for a long time that there won't be a silver bullet for energy.  i'd like to see more efficient cars, more hybrids, some fuel cell cars, some pneumatic, more nuclear power, more geo, more this more that.  Use as many sources as possible as efficiently as possible.  And build worthwhile public transport.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Yes , there are zero emissions from the tailpipe , but the electricity has to come from somewhere .
" True.But even if the volts are coming from coal , it 's coal burning happening in one place where it would/should be easier to capture .
Instead of burning gas all over the place where it might be hard to capture.i wish we were n't so afraid of the n word .
Not * that * n word , the other.i 've been saying for a long time that there wo n't be a silver bullet for energy .
i 'd like to see more efficient cars , more hybrids , some fuel cell cars , some pneumatic , more nuclear power , more geo , more this more that .
Use as many sources as possible as efficiently as possible .
And build worthwhile public transport .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Yes, there are zero emissions from the tailpipe, but the electricity has to come from somewhere.
"True.But even if the volts are coming from coal, it's coal burning happening in one place where it would/should be easier to capture.
Instead of burning gas all over the place where it might be hard to capture.i wish we weren't so afraid of the n word.
Not *that* n word, the other.i've been saying for a long time that there won't be a silver bullet for energy.
i'd like to see more efficient cars, more hybrids, some fuel cell cars, some pneumatic, more nuclear power, more geo, more this more that.
Use as many sources as possible as efficiently as possible.
And build worthwhile public transport.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897703</id>
	<title>Re:390km per charge?</title>
	<author>mikeee</author>
	<datestamp>1256746320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>horsepower fortnight</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>horsepower fortnight</tokentext>
<sentencetext>horsepower fortnight</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896819</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896245</id>
	<title>That's nice...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256740620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>What the summary fails to mention is also that the average speed was at about 55 km/h, which is pretty decent...</htmltext>
<tokenext>What the summary fails to mention is also that the average speed was at about 55 km/h , which is pretty decent.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What the summary fails to mention is also that the average speed was at about 55 km/h, which is pretty decent...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897775</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256746560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll bet if you set your cruise control to 33 mph (the speed they ran this car on) you'd go farther.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll bet if you set your cruise control to 33 mph ( the speed they ran this car on ) you 'd go farther .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll bet if you set your cruise control to 33 mph (the speed they ran this car on) you'd go farther.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898553</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>SBrach</author>
	<datestamp>1256749800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Quoting the worst case scenario of a 15amp 120v wall outlet is pretty disingenuous, if you are buying a $100K car you should set aside a couple hundred to hire an electrician to install a proper outlet in your garage.  The Tesla charger is capable of 240V @ 80A input.  That's 19,200 watts, almost 10x more.  This is why it only takes 3.5 hours rather than 30 hours to charge the Tesla.  <br> <br>Also, do we really need any better than that in our garages for electrics to be viable?  How long does it take you to fill your gas tank in your garage now? <br> <br>So now that you've (hopefully) admitted to yourself that charging your car in your garage for 3.5 hours every night is much more convenient than stopping at the gas station to fill up for your commute do you agree that all we really need now is some fast charging stations along the interstates that can handle charging in less than half an hour? That is the last hurdle that I see, occasional long distance trips, and it doesn't seem like impossible infrastructure to implement.  Especially considering that most commercial services are 480V 3 phase so at the same current as the home charger (80A) and a power factor of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.8 you could charge the car from dead to full in one hour and 160A to charge in a half hour is not ridiculous for a commercial charging station on the side of the interstate in my opinion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Quoting the worst case scenario of a 15amp 120v wall outlet is pretty disingenuous , if you are buying a $ 100K car you should set aside a couple hundred to hire an electrician to install a proper outlet in your garage .
The Tesla charger is capable of 240V @ 80A input .
That 's 19,200 watts , almost 10x more .
This is why it only takes 3.5 hours rather than 30 hours to charge the Tesla .
Also , do we really need any better than that in our garages for electrics to be viable ?
How long does it take you to fill your gas tank in your garage now ?
So now that you 've ( hopefully ) admitted to yourself that charging your car in your garage for 3.5 hours every night is much more convenient than stopping at the gas station to fill up for your commute do you agree that all we really need now is some fast charging stations along the interstates that can handle charging in less than half an hour ?
That is the last hurdle that I see , occasional long distance trips , and it does n't seem like impossible infrastructure to implement .
Especially considering that most commercial services are 480V 3 phase so at the same current as the home charger ( 80A ) and a power factor of .8 you could charge the car from dead to full in one hour and 160A to charge in a half hour is not ridiculous for a commercial charging station on the side of the interstate in my opinion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quoting the worst case scenario of a 15amp 120v wall outlet is pretty disingenuous, if you are buying a $100K car you should set aside a couple hundred to hire an electrician to install a proper outlet in your garage.
The Tesla charger is capable of 240V @ 80A input.
That's 19,200 watts, almost 10x more.
This is why it only takes 3.5 hours rather than 30 hours to charge the Tesla.
Also, do we really need any better than that in our garages for electrics to be viable?
How long does it take you to fill your gas tank in your garage now?
So now that you've (hopefully) admitted to yourself that charging your car in your garage for 3.5 hours every night is much more convenient than stopping at the gas station to fill up for your commute do you agree that all we really need now is some fast charging stations along the interstates that can handle charging in less than half an hour?
That is the last hurdle that I see, occasional long distance trips, and it doesn't seem like impossible infrastructure to implement.
Especially considering that most commercial services are 480V 3 phase so at the same current as the home charger (80A) and a power factor of .8 you could charge the car from dead to full in one hour and 160A to charge in a half hour is not ridiculous for a commercial charging station on the side of the interstate in my opinion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29903919</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256731500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are companies experimenting with rapid switching of batteries in cars. It's quite easy: Drive into station. Sit back, relax. Done. (Took slightly over a minute.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are companies experimenting with rapid switching of batteries in cars .
It 's quite easy : Drive into station .
Sit back , relax .
Done. ( Took slightly over a minute .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are companies experimenting with rapid switching of batteries in cars.
It's quite easy: Drive into station.
Sit back, relax.
Done. (Took slightly over a minute.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29902655</id>
	<title>Re:Now THAT is an electric car.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256724660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>501km = 311 miles, about the range most gasoline vehicles get on a tank of gas. If it was affordable, this would definitely make a viable replacement for a petroleum fueled vehicle. Now, if we could just do something about the cost of the batteries so that average people could buy one...</p></div><p>Except my gasoline car gets more than that out of a weeks driving when averaging 55 <b>miles</b> per hour.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>501km = 311 miles , about the range most gasoline vehicles get on a tank of gas .
If it was affordable , this would definitely make a viable replacement for a petroleum fueled vehicle .
Now , if we could just do something about the cost of the batteries so that average people could buy one...Except my gasoline car gets more than that out of a weeks driving when averaging 55 miles per hour .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>501km = 311 miles, about the range most gasoline vehicles get on a tank of gas.
If it was affordable, this would definitely make a viable replacement for a petroleum fueled vehicle.
Now, if we could just do something about the cost of the batteries so that average people could buy one...Except my gasoline car gets more than that out of a weeks driving when averaging 55 miles per hour.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896319</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899427</id>
	<title>The truth is available with high school physics</title>
	<author>burtosis</author>
	<datestamp>1256753760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am always interested in the CO2 output of these pure electric vehicles.  After all, right now we power most of the electric grid with coal and until that changes it dosen't make sense to wish or just assert what things out to be instead of just doing some simple research and high school physics calculations.<p>

Let's look at the real data from the real sources...</p><p>
According to <a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/perf\_specs.php" title="teslamotors.com" rel="nofollow">Tesla motors official specifications</a> [teslamotors.com] the motor has a output of 248 peak horsepower (185kW) and 276 ft/lbs (375 Nm) of torque.  Also, for full charge it takes "3.5 hours using the Tesla Motors Home Connector at 240 Volts and 70 amps" which for simplicity and because they have neglected to disclose the actual kwh of full empty to full charge at room temperature (capacity will degrade with use) lets assume is 3.5hrs * (240V * 70A) =  58.8 kwh.  Most likely this is an overly conservative estimate because of the constant current constant voltage nature of charging lithium batteries.  This is more important than battery capacity because it is the load the power plant feels to charge your car and is the important quantity of interest.  This will take you 244 miles on average (from same site) of course flat straight stretches will get better but it is the average that is most important.   Total is 58.8 kwh/ 244 miles or about<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.241 kwh/mile.  You can do the math on charging, but it should be obvious at this point that it is much cheaper than gasoline since electricity costs from around 7-20 cents/kwh in the US depending on numerous factors.</p><p>

Now go look at <a href="http://www.epa.gov/grnpower/pubs/calcmeth.htm" title="epa.gov" rel="nofollow">EPA official website for determining CO2 emissions</a> [epa.gov] (in the US) and you can see that generating one kwh gives you 7.18x10^-4 metric tons of CO2.  In addition, they also state on the same page you generate 8.81*10-3 metric tons of CO2 per gallon gasoline.</p><p>

Lets do some simple math.  At<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.241 kwh/mi this gives you (.241 kwh/mi * 7.18x10^-4 metric tons CO2/kwh) = 1.73 x 10^-4 tons of CO2/mile.  At 8.81 x 10^-3 metric tons of CO2/gallon (from EPA) then you have the Tesla getting <b>50.91 MPG equivelant </b>CO2 pollution.  Note that hybrid vehicles and diesels both come close to or exceed this value making the CO2 pollution for a pure electric not as rosy as some have been led to believe.</p><p>

Note that this is bested by emissions from diesel vehicles at this point.   Untill fission or fusion or solar or whatever comes on line, and given the cost of these vehicles, it dosent make sense.   Even if the battery were somehow cheap *now* it still wouldn't make much enviornental sense over a efficent chemical fuel based design.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am always interested in the CO2 output of these pure electric vehicles .
After all , right now we power most of the electric grid with coal and until that changes it dose n't make sense to wish or just assert what things out to be instead of just doing some simple research and high school physics calculations .
Let 's look at the real data from the real sources.. . According to Tesla motors official specifications [ teslamotors.com ] the motor has a output of 248 peak horsepower ( 185kW ) and 276 ft/lbs ( 375 Nm ) of torque .
Also , for full charge it takes " 3.5 hours using the Tesla Motors Home Connector at 240 Volts and 70 amps " which for simplicity and because they have neglected to disclose the actual kwh of full empty to full charge at room temperature ( capacity will degrade with use ) lets assume is 3.5hrs * ( 240V * 70A ) = 58.8 kwh .
Most likely this is an overly conservative estimate because of the constant current constant voltage nature of charging lithium batteries .
This is more important than battery capacity because it is the load the power plant feels to charge your car and is the important quantity of interest .
This will take you 244 miles on average ( from same site ) of course flat straight stretches will get better but it is the average that is most important .
Total is 58.8 kwh/ 244 miles or about .241 kwh/mile .
You can do the math on charging , but it should be obvious at this point that it is much cheaper than gasoline since electricity costs from around 7-20 cents/kwh in the US depending on numerous factors .
Now go look at EPA official website for determining CO2 emissions [ epa.gov ] ( in the US ) and you can see that generating one kwh gives you 7.18x10 ^ -4 metric tons of CO2 .
In addition , they also state on the same page you generate 8.81 * 10-3 metric tons of CO2 per gallon gasoline .
Lets do some simple math .
At .241 kwh/mi this gives you ( .241 kwh/mi * 7.18x10 ^ -4 metric tons CO2/kwh ) = 1.73 x 10 ^ -4 tons of CO2/mile .
At 8.81 x 10 ^ -3 metric tons of CO2/gallon ( from EPA ) then you have the Tesla getting 50.91 MPG equivelant CO2 pollution .
Note that hybrid vehicles and diesels both come close to or exceed this value making the CO2 pollution for a pure electric not as rosy as some have been led to believe .
Note that this is bested by emissions from diesel vehicles at this point .
Untill fission or fusion or solar or whatever comes on line , and given the cost of these vehicles , it dosent make sense .
Even if the battery were somehow cheap * now * it still would n't make much enviornental sense over a efficent chemical fuel based design .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am always interested in the CO2 output of these pure electric vehicles.
After all, right now we power most of the electric grid with coal and until that changes it dosen't make sense to wish or just assert what things out to be instead of just doing some simple research and high school physics calculations.
Let's look at the real data from the real sources...
According to Tesla motors official specifications [teslamotors.com] the motor has a output of 248 peak horsepower (185kW) and 276 ft/lbs (375 Nm) of torque.
Also, for full charge it takes "3.5 hours using the Tesla Motors Home Connector at 240 Volts and 70 amps" which for simplicity and because they have neglected to disclose the actual kwh of full empty to full charge at room temperature (capacity will degrade with use) lets assume is 3.5hrs * (240V * 70A) =  58.8 kwh.
Most likely this is an overly conservative estimate because of the constant current constant voltage nature of charging lithium batteries.
This is more important than battery capacity because it is the load the power plant feels to charge your car and is the important quantity of interest.
This will take you 244 miles on average (from same site) of course flat straight stretches will get better but it is the average that is most important.
Total is 58.8 kwh/ 244 miles or about .241 kwh/mile.
You can do the math on charging, but it should be obvious at this point that it is much cheaper than gasoline since electricity costs from around 7-20 cents/kwh in the US depending on numerous factors.
Now go look at EPA official website for determining CO2 emissions [epa.gov] (in the US) and you can see that generating one kwh gives you 7.18x10^-4 metric tons of CO2.
In addition, they also state on the same page you generate 8.81*10-3 metric tons of CO2 per gallon gasoline.
Lets do some simple math.
At .241 kwh/mi this gives you (.241 kwh/mi * 7.18x10^-4 metric tons CO2/kwh) = 1.73 x 10^-4 tons of CO2/mile.
At 8.81 x 10^-3 metric tons of CO2/gallon (from EPA) then you have the Tesla getting 50.91 MPG equivelant CO2 pollution.
Note that hybrid vehicles and diesels both come close to or exceed this value making the CO2 pollution for a pure electric not as rosy as some have been led to believe.
Note that this is bested by emissions from diesel vehicles at this point.
Untill fission or fusion or solar or whatever comes on line, and given the cost of these vehicles, it dosent make sense.
Even if the battery were somehow cheap *now* it still wouldn't make much enviornental sense over a efficent chemical fuel based design.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898393</id>
	<title>How does it handle in different weather?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256749080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here in New England it can get pretty cold in the winter, (granted not Alaska or Alberta style cold but still a few degrees below zero (Fahrenheit). How does the car provide heat for the passenger on an electric engine? If it used heaters wouldn't that draw more power from the battery and therefore lower the miles you can drive on a charge? What about the battery itself? Does it behave normal in sub zero temperatures?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in New England it can get pretty cold in the winter , ( granted not Alaska or Alberta style cold but still a few degrees below zero ( Fahrenheit ) .
How does the car provide heat for the passenger on an electric engine ?
If it used heaters would n't that draw more power from the battery and therefore lower the miles you can drive on a charge ?
What about the battery itself ?
Does it behave normal in sub zero temperatures ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in New England it can get pretty cold in the winter, (granted not Alaska or Alberta style cold but still a few degrees below zero (Fahrenheit).
How does the car provide heat for the passenger on an electric engine?
If it used heaters wouldn't that draw more power from the battery and therefore lower the miles you can drive on a charge?
What about the battery itself?
Does it behave normal in sub zero temperatures?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29900383</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256757420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is this problem really that hard?</p><p>Put a charging station in the garage that has uber mega connections for the roadster. Let it charge at whatever pace your standard outlet can provide, and then when you plug the car in, dump all that slowly charged energy into the car.</p><p>Sure, you need to have some batteries, but in this instance size and weight are much less important. Even if they are only capable of a 50\% capacity quick-charge, it would still be a useful capability.</p><p>For that matter, make some charging-stations with big pipes to the grid, and they can sell quick charges to whoever wants to pay.</p><p>The only things you present are engineering problems, not physical or social obstacles. Smart folks will figure out a way to provide the services people want at a price they're willing to pay.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this problem really that hard ? Put a charging station in the garage that has uber mega connections for the roadster .
Let it charge at whatever pace your standard outlet can provide , and then when you plug the car in , dump all that slowly charged energy into the car.Sure , you need to have some batteries , but in this instance size and weight are much less important .
Even if they are only capable of a 50 \ % capacity quick-charge , it would still be a useful capability.For that matter , make some charging-stations with big pipes to the grid , and they can sell quick charges to whoever wants to pay.The only things you present are engineering problems , not physical or social obstacles .
Smart folks will figure out a way to provide the services people want at a price they 're willing to pay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this problem really that hard?Put a charging station in the garage that has uber mega connections for the roadster.
Let it charge at whatever pace your standard outlet can provide, and then when you plug the car in, dump all that slowly charged energy into the car.Sure, you need to have some batteries, but in this instance size and weight are much less important.
Even if they are only capable of a 50\% capacity quick-charge, it would still be a useful capability.For that matter, make some charging-stations with big pipes to the grid, and they can sell quick charges to whoever wants to pay.The only things you present are engineering problems, not physical or social obstacles.
Smart folks will figure out a way to provide the services people want at a price they're willing to pay.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899345</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>TheGreatOrangePeel</author>
	<datestamp>1256753400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Some people will choose a car that never needs to go to the gas station, never needs oil changes, and works great for all their local commuting.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Isn't that called a bicycle?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some people will choose a car that never needs to go to the gas station , never needs oil changes , and works great for all their local commuting .
Is n't that called a bicycle ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some people will choose a car that never needs to go to the gas station, never needs oil changes, and works great for all their local commuting.
Isn't that called a bicycle?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896667</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896201</id>
	<title>To be fair?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256740440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To be fair, these cars were expected to turn, and go up and down hills.  Something no mere mortal car would dare perform...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To be fair , these cars were expected to turn , and go up and down hills .
Something no mere mortal car would dare perform.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To be fair, these cars were expected to turn, and go up and down hills.
Something no mere mortal car would dare perform...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897531</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256745540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What? 55 kph is decent? That's only 33 mph (the 501 km is 300 miles). Who takes a long trip at 30 mph? I want to see how far it will go at 65 mph (100 kph).</p><p>When I first saw the summary it looked good, as sometimes I drive to St Louis, 100 miles from here (166 km). A 300 mile distance would work -- but NOT at 30 mph. In the first place, it's illegal to drive slower than 45 mph on the interstate, and in the second place it would take three hours to get there. Might as well ride a horse.</p><p>You're only going to do 30 in the city, where you're not going to drive 300 miles in a day and recharging isn't a problem. In short, this "milestone" is completely meaningless for any real-world use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What ?
55 kph is decent ?
That 's only 33 mph ( the 501 km is 300 miles ) .
Who takes a long trip at 30 mph ?
I want to see how far it will go at 65 mph ( 100 kph ) .When I first saw the summary it looked good , as sometimes I drive to St Louis , 100 miles from here ( 166 km ) .
A 300 mile distance would work -- but NOT at 30 mph .
In the first place , it 's illegal to drive slower than 45 mph on the interstate , and in the second place it would take three hours to get there .
Might as well ride a horse.You 're only going to do 30 in the city , where you 're not going to drive 300 miles in a day and recharging is n't a problem .
In short , this " milestone " is completely meaningless for any real-world use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What?
55 kph is decent?
That's only 33 mph (the 501 km is 300 miles).
Who takes a long trip at 30 mph?
I want to see how far it will go at 65 mph (100 kph).When I first saw the summary it looked good, as sometimes I drive to St Louis, 100 miles from here (166 km).
A 300 mile distance would work -- but NOT at 30 mph.
In the first place, it's illegal to drive slower than 45 mph on the interstate, and in the second place it would take three hours to get there.
Might as well ride a horse.You're only going to do 30 in the city, where you're not going to drive 300 miles in a day and recharging isn't a problem.
In short, this "milestone" is completely meaningless for any real-world use.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896245</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898477</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>Coren22</author>
	<datestamp>1256749440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see this same argument on every article about electric vehicles.  It is always refuted with evidence and the same argument.  You must be new here, or like making the same argument as has been made previously.</p><p>Electric cars can easily switch sources as the power infrastructure is upgraded to cleaner energy sources, gasoline cars cannot.</p><p>Studies have been done, that even on completely coal electricity, the emissions produced to move the electric car are still cleaner then the gasoline car.</p><p>Please stop this tired old argument, it has been proven false previously, and it is very obnoxious to keep making it.</p><p>If you want citations, you can look them up yourself, they aren't too hard to find.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see this same argument on every article about electric vehicles .
It is always refuted with evidence and the same argument .
You must be new here , or like making the same argument as has been made previously.Electric cars can easily switch sources as the power infrastructure is upgraded to cleaner energy sources , gasoline cars can not.Studies have been done , that even on completely coal electricity , the emissions produced to move the electric car are still cleaner then the gasoline car.Please stop this tired old argument , it has been proven false previously , and it is very obnoxious to keep making it.If you want citations , you can look them up yourself , they are n't too hard to find .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see this same argument on every article about electric vehicles.
It is always refuted with evidence and the same argument.
You must be new here, or like making the same argument as has been made previously.Electric cars can easily switch sources as the power infrastructure is upgraded to cleaner energy sources, gasoline cars cannot.Studies have been done, that even on completely coal electricity, the emissions produced to move the electric car are still cleaner then the gasoline car.Please stop this tired old argument, it has been proven false previously, and it is very obnoxious to keep making it.If you want citations, you can look them up yourself, they aren't too hard to find.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898355</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256748960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>55 km/h is only about 34 MPH....</p><p>It's only "decent" if you only drive on small residential roads...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>55 km/h is only about 34 MPH....It 's only " decent " if you only drive on small residential roads.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>55 km/h is only about 34 MPH....It's only "decent" if you only drive on small residential roads...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896245</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898233</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>RicktheBrick</author>
	<datestamp>1256748480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>After my wife died I too had two cars.  I would drive my car almost all of the times.  After less than a year I looked at my insurance bill and realized that I was paying around $!0 a trip in insurance cost for the privilege of keeping my wife's car.  So until the cost of insurance is based on how many miles a car is driven,  I will keep myself limited to one car.  It is far cheaper to pay a store to deliver a large item than it is to have a pick up truck and do it yourself.  I see a commercial where the wife complains about her husband keeping an old truck.  The husband says it is paid for and it delivers him breakfast every Saturday.  I think the breakfast cost him at least $10 or more in insurance cost.  I guess you think most families should have 3 cars(his, hers, and a family van).  Than of course there is the need for two garages to store them which means a large lot and driveway.  I can see why a family income of over $100,000 a year is needed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>After my wife died I too had two cars .
I would drive my car almost all of the times .
After less than a year I looked at my insurance bill and realized that I was paying around $ ! 0 a trip in insurance cost for the privilege of keeping my wife 's car .
So until the cost of insurance is based on how many miles a car is driven , I will keep myself limited to one car .
It is far cheaper to pay a store to deliver a large item than it is to have a pick up truck and do it yourself .
I see a commercial where the wife complains about her husband keeping an old truck .
The husband says it is paid for and it delivers him breakfast every Saturday .
I think the breakfast cost him at least $ 10 or more in insurance cost .
I guess you think most families should have 3 cars ( his , hers , and a family van ) .
Than of course there is the need for two garages to store them which means a large lot and driveway .
I can see why a family income of over $ 100,000 a year is needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After my wife died I too had two cars.
I would drive my car almost all of the times.
After less than a year I looked at my insurance bill and realized that I was paying around $!0 a trip in insurance cost for the privilege of keeping my wife's car.
So until the cost of insurance is based on how many miles a car is driven,  I will keep myself limited to one car.
It is far cheaper to pay a store to deliver a large item than it is to have a pick up truck and do it yourself.
I see a commercial where the wife complains about her husband keeping an old truck.
The husband says it is paid for and it delivers him breakfast every Saturday.
I think the breakfast cost him at least $10 or more in insurance cost.
I guess you think most families should have 3 cars(his, hers, and a family van).
Than of course there is the need for two garages to store them which means a large lot and driveway.
I can see why a family income of over $100,000 a year is needed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896667</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896209</id>
	<title>Tesla Motors ftw?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256740500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I only wish I could afford one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I only wish I could afford one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I only wish I could afford one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897059</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Algan</author>
	<datestamp>1256743680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tesla Roadster is more like a proof of concept/exotic car. Electric cars don't (yet) make sense as long haul vehicles, simply because the infrastructure for recharging them is not there yet. Not to mention charge times measured in hours vs minutes. I don't see people hanging around at highway recharge stations for hours. But they do make perfect sense as commuter cars, and, for that, a range of 300 miles is good enough for even the most extreme commuters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tesla Roadster is more like a proof of concept/exotic car .
Electric cars do n't ( yet ) make sense as long haul vehicles , simply because the infrastructure for recharging them is not there yet .
Not to mention charge times measured in hours vs minutes .
I do n't see people hanging around at highway recharge stations for hours .
But they do make perfect sense as commuter cars , and , for that , a range of 300 miles is good enough for even the most extreme commuters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tesla Roadster is more like a proof of concept/exotic car.
Electric cars don't (yet) make sense as long haul vehicles, simply because the infrastructure for recharging them is not there yet.
Not to mention charge times measured in hours vs minutes.
I don't see people hanging around at highway recharge stations for hours.
But they do make perfect sense as commuter cars, and, for that, a range of 300 miles is good enough for even the most extreme commuters.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29903097</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>MarkCollette</author>
	<datestamp>1256726940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or you just trickle charge a capacitor at home, with which you can then rapidly charge your car when you arrive. Extra bonus that you can do the trickle charging solely during off-peak hours, yet be able to recharge your car at any point in time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or you just trickle charge a capacitor at home , with which you can then rapidly charge your car when you arrive .
Extra bonus that you can do the trickle charging solely during off-peak hours , yet be able to recharge your car at any point in time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or you just trickle charge a capacitor at home, with which you can then rapidly charge your car when you arrive.
Extra bonus that you can do the trickle charging solely during off-peak hours, yet be able to recharge your car at any point in time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899733</id>
	<title>Re:Now THAT is an electric car.</title>
	<author>yurtinus</author>
	<datestamp>1256754840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"more performance" is arguable, but other than that-- bingo. This car is effectively an electric Elise, which starts at around 50k. Some folks are willing to pay more for the neato new tech, some folks aren't.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" more performance " is arguable , but other than that-- bingo .
This car is effectively an electric Elise , which starts at around 50k .
Some folks are willing to pay more for the neato new tech , some folks are n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"more performance" is arguable, but other than that-- bingo.
This car is effectively an electric Elise, which starts at around 50k.
Some folks are willing to pay more for the neato new tech, some folks aren't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897635</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897597</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256745900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Planning on going from a $2,500 car to a $100,000 one are you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Planning on going from a $ 2,500 car to a $ 100,000 one are you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Planning on going from a $2,500 car to a $100,000 one are you?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898501</id>
	<title>Highway 95</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256749560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now we know the right distance to place Tesla coils along route 95 in New England.</p><p>If only we could find another really expensive contractor to do the work...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now we know the right distance to place Tesla coils along route 95 in New England.If only we could find another really expensive contractor to do the work.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now we know the right distance to place Tesla coils along route 95 in New England.If only we could find another really expensive contractor to do the work...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897071</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1256743740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>'dirty' sources, such as coal, oil and nuclear.</p></div><p>These sources aren't dirty (especially nuclear), they just aren't quickly renewable.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'dirty ' sources , such as coal , oil and nuclear.These sources are n't dirty ( especially nuclear ) , they just are n't quickly renewable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'dirty' sources, such as coal, oil and nuclear.These sources aren't dirty (especially nuclear), they just aren't quickly renewable.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897773</id>
	<title>Re:I'm sorry...</title>
	<author>theJML</author>
	<datestamp>1256746560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Viable? Definitely. Practical, probably not. but any work that can be done in this arena can funnel down to the practical cars in the future. Just like the people that bought DVD players for $1k when they came out. They caught on, were mass produced, simplified, and came down in price.</p><p>I know if I was rich, I'd get one. ('cause not being rich means my wife wouldn't quite go along with that purchase)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Viable ?
Definitely. Practical , probably not .
but any work that can be done in this arena can funnel down to the practical cars in the future .
Just like the people that bought DVD players for $ 1k when they came out .
They caught on , were mass produced , simplified , and came down in price.I know if I was rich , I 'd get one .
( 'cause not being rich means my wife would n't quite go along with that purchase )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Viable?
Definitely. Practical, probably not.
but any work that can be done in this arena can funnel down to the practical cars in the future.
Just like the people that bought DVD players for $1k when they came out.
They caught on, were mass produced, simplified, and came down in price.I know if I was rich, I'd get one.
('cause not being rich means my wife wouldn't quite go along with that purchase)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896435</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</id>
	<title>Electric cars are not better for the enviornment</title>
	<author>arkham6</author>
	<datestamp>1256741400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, there are zero emissions from the tailpipe, but the electricity has to come from somewhere. Hydro, solar, wind are all very small percentages of the total electricity generating solutions. The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty' sources, such as coal, oil and nuclear. All thats happening is the carbon output of transportation is being shifted from the consumer to the manufacturer.<br><br>And even if we DO get a much larger percentage of clean energy sources, we still have to consider the massive costs that will be needed to upgrade the aging energy grid to be able to support the huge draw that electric cars will demand. Even a few million electric cars in the US will put a huge strain on the grid.<br><br>Finally, how good are the batteries for the enviornment? Can they be recycled cleanly? And how often do they need to be replaced? After a few months of steady use?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , there are zero emissions from the tailpipe , but the electricity has to come from somewhere .
Hydro , solar , wind are all very small percentages of the total electricity generating solutions .
The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty ' sources , such as coal , oil and nuclear .
All thats happening is the carbon output of transportation is being shifted from the consumer to the manufacturer.And even if we DO get a much larger percentage of clean energy sources , we still have to consider the massive costs that will be needed to upgrade the aging energy grid to be able to support the huge draw that electric cars will demand .
Even a few million electric cars in the US will put a huge strain on the grid.Finally , how good are the batteries for the enviornment ?
Can they be recycled cleanly ?
And how often do they need to be replaced ?
After a few months of steady use ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, there are zero emissions from the tailpipe, but the electricity has to come from somewhere.
Hydro, solar, wind are all very small percentages of the total electricity generating solutions.
The majority of electricity comes from 'dirty' sources, such as coal, oil and nuclear.
All thats happening is the carbon output of transportation is being shifted from the consumer to the manufacturer.And even if we DO get a much larger percentage of clean energy sources, we still have to consider the massive costs that will be needed to upgrade the aging energy grid to be able to support the huge draw that electric cars will demand.
Even a few million electric cars in the US will put a huge strain on the grid.Finally, how good are the batteries for the enviornment?
Can they be recycled cleanly?
And how often do they need to be replaced?
After a few months of steady use?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898597</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256750100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, for longer trips you tow a Generator using some appropriate fuel.  Properly designed this would act like a Gas/Electric Hybrid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , for longer trips you tow a Generator using some appropriate fuel .
Properly designed this would act like a Gas/Electric Hybrid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, for longer trips you tow a Generator using some appropriate fuel.
Properly designed this would act like a Gas/Electric Hybrid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896657</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>UltimApe</author>
	<datestamp>1256742180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The statistic was that even after manufacturing costs and other hidden energy consumption... the electric car is still less of an enviromental impact.  the dirty energy you speak of is still  cleaner than even the most finely tuned fossil fuel engine.  The net effect over the life of the car is a decrease in pollution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The statistic was that even after manufacturing costs and other hidden energy consumption... the electric car is still less of an enviromental impact .
the dirty energy you speak of is still cleaner than even the most finely tuned fossil fuel engine .
The net effect over the life of the car is a decrease in pollution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The statistic was that even after manufacturing costs and other hidden energy consumption... the electric car is still less of an enviromental impact.
the dirty energy you speak of is still  cleaner than even the most finely tuned fossil fuel engine.
The net effect over the life of the car is a decrease in pollution.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29900323</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>EvilBudMan</author>
	<datestamp>1256757120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wanna sell it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wan na sell it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wanna sell it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29906067</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256746140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Good luck putting 53kWh of energy into a battery in "a matter of minutes".</p><p>If you want to charge it in "a matter of minutes", say 10 minutes, you would need a 318000Watt power source. If you wanted to charge your car in 3 minutes, you would need a megawatt power supply... for that you'd need a dedicated power station to supply this kind of power otherwise the whole city would have a brownout every time some prick decides to recharge his Tesla. I don't know about where you live, but there aren't dedicated electric stations that can supply a megawatt of power anywhere near my house.</p><p>So: batteries? supercapacitors? ultracapacitors? it doesn't matter the least bit if you don't have the power infrastructure to charge it.</p></div><p>If you wanted to set up a high capacity charging station (perhaps by a highway), I dare say the power companies would be happy to supply you.<br>It is not technically difficult. Hight voltatage transmission lines carry a lot of juice.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good luck putting 53kWh of energy into a battery in " a matter of minutes " .If you want to charge it in " a matter of minutes " , say 10 minutes , you would need a 318000Watt power source .
If you wanted to charge your car in 3 minutes , you would need a megawatt power supply... for that you 'd need a dedicated power station to supply this kind of power otherwise the whole city would have a brownout every time some prick decides to recharge his Tesla .
I do n't know about where you live , but there are n't dedicated electric stations that can supply a megawatt of power anywhere near my house.So : batteries ?
supercapacitors ? ultracapacitors ?
it does n't matter the least bit if you do n't have the power infrastructure to charge it.If you wanted to set up a high capacity charging station ( perhaps by a highway ) , I dare say the power companies would be happy to supply you.It is not technically difficult .
Hight voltatage transmission lines carry a lot of juice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good luck putting 53kWh of energy into a battery in "a matter of minutes".If you want to charge it in "a matter of minutes", say 10 minutes, you would need a 318000Watt power source.
If you wanted to charge your car in 3 minutes, you would need a megawatt power supply... for that you'd need a dedicated power station to supply this kind of power otherwise the whole city would have a brownout every time some prick decides to recharge his Tesla.
I don't know about where you live, but there aren't dedicated electric stations that can supply a megawatt of power anywhere near my house.So: batteries?
supercapacitors? ultracapacitors?
it doesn't matter the least bit if you don't have the power infrastructure to charge it.If you wanted to set up a high capacity charging station (perhaps by a highway), I dare say the power companies would be happy to supply you.It is not technically difficult.
Hight voltatage transmission lines carry a lot of juice.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29906551</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256750400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually you are forgetting something.</p><p>You could have super capacitors at your home that charge slowly at 20A to 50A. Then you could transfer to the super cap in the car almost instantly.</p><p>Petrol stations could still exist with electric cars around. if all cars had super capacitors petrol stations could be come capacitor farms, they would have banks of capacitors slowly charging all day, and you drive up and transfer from their cap to your cap. That way no one need have megawatt or gigawatt power but still be able to charge nearly instantly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually you are forgetting something.You could have super capacitors at your home that charge slowly at 20A to 50A .
Then you could transfer to the super cap in the car almost instantly.Petrol stations could still exist with electric cars around .
if all cars had super capacitors petrol stations could be come capacitor farms , they would have banks of capacitors slowly charging all day , and you drive up and transfer from their cap to your cap .
That way no one need have megawatt or gigawatt power but still be able to charge nearly instantly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually you are forgetting something.You could have super capacitors at your home that charge slowly at 20A to 50A.
Then you could transfer to the super cap in the car almost instantly.Petrol stations could still exist with electric cars around.
if all cars had super capacitors petrol stations could be come capacitor farms, they would have banks of capacitors slowly charging all day, and you drive up and transfer from their cap to your cap.
That way no one need have megawatt or gigawatt power but still be able to charge nearly instantly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29902045</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Biogenesis</author>
	<datestamp>1256721480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think you're under-estimating just how useful an electric car with a ~350km range would be.<br> <br>

The only trip such a car wouldn't be able to do is a ~&gt;300km trip which didn't include an ~8hr break at the end. Now seriously, how often do most people drive like that?<br> <br>

In my home town of Newcastle, AU (world's biggest coal exporter, yay) most people drive ~20-30mins to work. Basically you can easily cross the town in 30mins during peak hour, I ride to Raymond Terrace which is 38km (50mins) from home.<br> <br>

Now, the motorbike I ride has a range of ~350km before it hits the reserve tank and hence needs re-filling about once a week. However every day it spends 6.5hrs sitting in the car park at a school and ~14hrs sitting in the garage at home. With that sort of charge time available conventional sockets (although not the grid, for wide-scale deployment) would be able to easily charge a Tesla Roadster. Add to that a Vectrix electric motor scooter would suit my commute (which is long by local standards) as it has a 100km range, although charging at work would be needed.<br> <br>

Anyway, that was all just a long way of re-iterating "yes, this type of car doesn't suit all trips, but it does suit the bulk of the driving time done by the bulk of people". Only with electric cars you have the convenience of being able to refuel at home instead of the of having to go to travel to a special refueling station. See? Bias against electric or petrol cars can exist, it's just a matter of perspective.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you 're under-estimating just how useful an electric car with a ~ 350km range would be .
The only trip such a car would n't be able to do is a ~ &gt; 300km trip which did n't include an ~ 8hr break at the end .
Now seriously , how often do most people drive like that ?
In my home town of Newcastle , AU ( world 's biggest coal exporter , yay ) most people drive ~ 20-30mins to work .
Basically you can easily cross the town in 30mins during peak hour , I ride to Raymond Terrace which is 38km ( 50mins ) from home .
Now , the motorbike I ride has a range of ~ 350km before it hits the reserve tank and hence needs re-filling about once a week .
However every day it spends 6.5hrs sitting in the car park at a school and ~ 14hrs sitting in the garage at home .
With that sort of charge time available conventional sockets ( although not the grid , for wide-scale deployment ) would be able to easily charge a Tesla Roadster .
Add to that a Vectrix electric motor scooter would suit my commute ( which is long by local standards ) as it has a 100km range , although charging at work would be needed .
Anyway , that was all just a long way of re-iterating " yes , this type of car does n't suit all trips , but it does suit the bulk of the driving time done by the bulk of people " .
Only with electric cars you have the convenience of being able to refuel at home instead of the of having to go to travel to a special refueling station .
See ? Bias against electric or petrol cars can exist , it 's just a matter of perspective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you're under-estimating just how useful an electric car with a ~350km range would be.
The only trip such a car wouldn't be able to do is a ~&gt;300km trip which didn't include an ~8hr break at the end.
Now seriously, how often do most people drive like that?
In my home town of Newcastle, AU (world's biggest coal exporter, yay) most people drive ~20-30mins to work.
Basically you can easily cross the town in 30mins during peak hour, I ride to Raymond Terrace which is 38km (50mins) from home.
Now, the motorbike I ride has a range of ~350km before it hits the reserve tank and hence needs re-filling about once a week.
However every day it spends 6.5hrs sitting in the car park at a school and ~14hrs sitting in the garage at home.
With that sort of charge time available conventional sockets (although not the grid, for wide-scale deployment) would be able to easily charge a Tesla Roadster.
Add to that a Vectrix electric motor scooter would suit my commute (which is long by local standards) as it has a 100km range, although charging at work would be needed.
Anyway, that was all just a long way of re-iterating "yes, this type of car doesn't suit all trips, but it does suit the bulk of the driving time done by the bulk of people".
Only with electric cars you have the convenience of being able to refuel at home instead of the of having to go to travel to a special refueling station.
See? Bias against electric or petrol cars can exist, it's just a matter of perspective.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897953</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>Nemyst</author>
	<datestamp>1256747280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hold on. Where do you get your statistics, sir? How can you assume the majority of electricity comes from coal, oil and nuclear?<br>
<br>
Oh yeah, the USA is everybody! I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but there are many countries where greener sources <i>are</i> the main source of energy. Around here, over 90\% of our electricity comes from dams. In France, around 75\% of the electricity comes from nuclear powerplants with 16\% from hydroelectricity (meaning around 90\% comes from much cleaner sources than coal and oil). I'm sure there are many other cases where this also holds true.<br>
<br>
Point is, it's not because the US is using antiquated, pollution-heavy sources of energy that everyone on the damn planet is. Neither does it mean the US can't change. All it does is eliminate one hurdle to a cleaner future: now we only have to fix powerplants and cars will be fixed at the same time. I call that a great improvement.<br>
<br>
And before anyone asks, nuclear is cleaner than coal and oil by miles. There is waste, but it's ridiculously smaller than the impact oil/coal have.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hold on .
Where do you get your statistics , sir ?
How can you assume the majority of electricity comes from coal , oil and nuclear ?
Oh yeah , the USA is everybody !
I 'm sorry to burst your bubble , but there are many countries where greener sources are the main source of energy .
Around here , over 90 \ % of our electricity comes from dams .
In France , around 75 \ % of the electricity comes from nuclear powerplants with 16 \ % from hydroelectricity ( meaning around 90 \ % comes from much cleaner sources than coal and oil ) .
I 'm sure there are many other cases where this also holds true .
Point is , it 's not because the US is using antiquated , pollution-heavy sources of energy that everyone on the damn planet is .
Neither does it mean the US ca n't change .
All it does is eliminate one hurdle to a cleaner future : now we only have to fix powerplants and cars will be fixed at the same time .
I call that a great improvement .
And before anyone asks , nuclear is cleaner than coal and oil by miles .
There is waste , but it 's ridiculously smaller than the impact oil/coal have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hold on.
Where do you get your statistics, sir?
How can you assume the majority of electricity comes from coal, oil and nuclear?
Oh yeah, the USA is everybody!
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but there are many countries where greener sources are the main source of energy.
Around here, over 90\% of our electricity comes from dams.
In France, around 75\% of the electricity comes from nuclear powerplants with 16\% from hydroelectricity (meaning around 90\% comes from much cleaner sources than coal and oil).
I'm sure there are many other cases where this also holds true.
Point is, it's not because the US is using antiquated, pollution-heavy sources of energy that everyone on the damn planet is.
Neither does it mean the US can't change.
All it does is eliminate one hurdle to a cleaner future: now we only have to fix powerplants and cars will be fixed at the same time.
I call that a great improvement.
And before anyone asks, nuclear is cleaner than coal and oil by miles.
There is waste, but it's ridiculously smaller than the impact oil/coal have.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896199</id>
	<title>When you drive an electric car...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256740440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When you drive an electric car, you're riding with Hitler.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When you drive an electric car , you 're riding with Hitler .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you drive an electric car, you're riding with Hitler.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898319</id>
	<title>Not to confuse with Spark EV</title>
	<author>hrimhari</author>
	<datestamp>1256748780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every time I heard about Tesla Motors I thought I was hearing about that scam company <a href="http://theseep.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/i-had-thought-that-i-was-keeping-up-on-the-development-of-this-generation-of-electric-vehicles-being-completely-disappointed-by-the-lack-of-commitment-from-american-carmakers-and-the-plethora-of-vapo/" title="wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">Spark EV</a> [wordpress.com].</p><p>So I decided to post this clarification in case any other incautious reader did the same mistake.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every time I heard about Tesla Motors I thought I was hearing about that scam company Spark EV [ wordpress.com ] .So I decided to post this clarification in case any other incautious reader did the same mistake .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every time I heard about Tesla Motors I thought I was hearing about that scam company Spark EV [wordpress.com].So I decided to post this clarification in case any other incautious reader did the same mistake.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898245</id>
	<title>Re:Forget About Batteries in Cars</title>
	<author>Wonko the Sane</author>
	<datestamp>1256748540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If you wanted to charge it within 1 hour, you would need a 53000W power source, that's about 240Amps@220Volt, 480Amps@110Volts. Considering that the main circuit breaker to my house is rated 200Amps, I could never charge the Tesla at my house in 1 hour, even if it had super capacitors or whatever else you wanted.</p></div></blockquote><p>Install the capacitors in your house, not the car and charge them during non-peak hours.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you wanted to charge it within 1 hour , you would need a 53000W power source , that 's about 240Amps @ 220Volt , 480Amps @ 110Volts .
Considering that the main circuit breaker to my house is rated 200Amps , I could never charge the Tesla at my house in 1 hour , even if it had super capacitors or whatever else you wanted.Install the capacitors in your house , not the car and charge them during non-peak hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you wanted to charge it within 1 hour, you would need a 53000W power source, that's about 240Amps@220Volt, 480Amps@110Volts.
Considering that the main circuit breaker to my house is rated 200Amps, I could never charge the Tesla at my house in 1 hour, even if it had super capacitors or whatever else you wanted.Install the capacitors in your house, not the car and charge them during non-peak hours.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896819</id>
	<title>390km per charge?</title>
	<author>sootman</author>
	<datestamp>1256742840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The metric system is the tool of the devil! My EV gets 40 rods to the... damn, I don't know enough about how energy is measured to finish the joke.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The metric system is the tool of the devil !
My EV gets 40 rods to the... damn , I do n't know enough about how energy is measured to finish the joke .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The metric system is the tool of the devil!
My EV gets 40 rods to the... damn, I don't know enough about how energy is measured to finish the joke.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29902077</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>Rei</author>
	<datestamp>1256721660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So... you're saying that you could afford a $109k electric supercar (plus options and accessories), but not a $15k gasoline car for the four times a year you go elsewhere or 1.5$k/year on rentals?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So... you 're saying that you could afford a $ 109k electric supercar ( plus options and accessories ) , but not a $ 15k gasoline car for the four times a year you go elsewhere or 1.5 $ k/year on rentals ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So... you're saying that you could afford a $109k electric supercar (plus options and accessories), but not a $15k gasoline car for the four times a year you go elsewhere or 1.5$k/year on rentals?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896725</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898685</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>fprintf</author>
	<datestamp>1256750520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suggest then, that if you need to take such a trip 4 times per year, that you rent a vehicle for those 4 times. That way you have your most efficient vehicle for the majority of your driving, and then can rent just the right size vehicle for the occasional trips. I recommend this to all my friends who "had" to have an SUV or huge pickup truck - for the money they saved in gas over the year, they were able to pay for the vehicle they needed to rent and they saved a whole bunch of uselessly burned fuel the remainder of the time.</p><p>Alternativey, those of us who have two car families have one large one and one smaller. We have a Mini and a Volvo station wagon, where the wagon is used for the family trips and I drive the Mini to the local commuter lot where I catch the bus.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suggest then , that if you need to take such a trip 4 times per year , that you rent a vehicle for those 4 times .
That way you have your most efficient vehicle for the majority of your driving , and then can rent just the right size vehicle for the occasional trips .
I recommend this to all my friends who " had " to have an SUV or huge pickup truck - for the money they saved in gas over the year , they were able to pay for the vehicle they needed to rent and they saved a whole bunch of uselessly burned fuel the remainder of the time.Alternativey , those of us who have two car families have one large one and one smaller .
We have a Mini and a Volvo station wagon , where the wagon is used for the family trips and I drive the Mini to the local commuter lot where I catch the bus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suggest then, that if you need to take such a trip 4 times per year, that you rent a vehicle for those 4 times.
That way you have your most efficient vehicle for the majority of your driving, and then can rent just the right size vehicle for the occasional trips.
I recommend this to all my friends who "had" to have an SUV or huge pickup truck - for the money they saved in gas over the year, they were able to pay for the vehicle they needed to rent and they saved a whole bunch of uselessly burned fuel the remainder of the time.Alternativey, those of us who have two car families have one large one and one smaller.
We have a Mini and a Volvo station wagon, where the wagon is used for the family trips and I drive the Mini to the local commuter lot where I catch the bus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896725</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29904489</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256735040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Tesla is not lacking in ability to go fast. It is an extremely fast car, but if you drive it fast, you won't get that kind of range (nor will you get optimal range out of a gasoline-powered car by flooring it).</p><p>The Tesla has a 0-60 time of ~4 seconds, which beats the vast majority of gasoline-powered cars under $100K.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Tesla is not lacking in ability to go fast .
It is an extremely fast car , but if you drive it fast , you wo n't get that kind of range ( nor will you get optimal range out of a gasoline-powered car by flooring it ) .The Tesla has a 0-60 time of ~ 4 seconds , which beats the vast majority of gasoline-powered cars under $ 100K .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Tesla is not lacking in ability to go fast.
It is an extremely fast car, but if you drive it fast, you won't get that kind of range (nor will you get optimal range out of a gasoline-powered car by flooring it).The Tesla has a 0-60 time of ~4 seconds, which beats the vast majority of gasoline-powered cars under $100K.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29900927</id>
	<title>Re:If crash then (crushed AND electrocuted)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256759520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... because the lightweight frame will fold like a piece of tissue.</p></div><p>You WANT the frame to fold. Ever hear of crumple zones?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Which is why I won't buy one of these things until the frame is a carbon fiber composite stronger than steel or titanium. Expensive.</p></div><p>The advantage of CF is weight, it is not much stronger than steel (if at all, depending on application). So while more and more components of mainstream vehicles will be made using CF, the main reason is for better fuel economy (less weight = less fuel needed).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>In the meantime, I plan to continue to drive a gas guzzling heavy framed car that keeps me safe from the dimwitted morons on the road.</p></div><p>Your heavy and inefficient vehicle is not only a danger to others, but to yourself as well. You equate a heavy and inflexible frame with improved safety, but this is not reality, and (if you haven't noticed) the exact opposite direction that car manufacturers have taken ever since safety standards were put in place.</p><p><a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2009/09/iihs-crash-chevy-malibu-bel-air.html" title="latimes.com">http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2009/09/iihs-crash-chevy-malibu-bel-air.html</a> [latimes.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... because the lightweight frame will fold like a piece of tissue.You WANT the frame to fold .
Ever hear of crumple zones ? Which is why I wo n't buy one of these things until the frame is a carbon fiber composite stronger than steel or titanium .
Expensive.The advantage of CF is weight , it is not much stronger than steel ( if at all , depending on application ) .
So while more and more components of mainstream vehicles will be made using CF , the main reason is for better fuel economy ( less weight = less fuel needed ) .In the meantime , I plan to continue to drive a gas guzzling heavy framed car that keeps me safe from the dimwitted morons on the road.Your heavy and inefficient vehicle is not only a danger to others , but to yourself as well .
You equate a heavy and inflexible frame with improved safety , but this is not reality , and ( if you have n't noticed ) the exact opposite direction that car manufacturers have taken ever since safety standards were put in place.http : //latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2009/09/iihs-crash-chevy-malibu-bel-air.html [ latimes.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ... because the lightweight frame will fold like a piece of tissue.You WANT the frame to fold.
Ever hear of crumple zones?Which is why I won't buy one of these things until the frame is a carbon fiber composite stronger than steel or titanium.
Expensive.The advantage of CF is weight, it is not much stronger than steel (if at all, depending on application).
So while more and more components of mainstream vehicles will be made using CF, the main reason is for better fuel economy (less weight = less fuel needed).In the meantime, I plan to continue to drive a gas guzzling heavy framed car that keeps me safe from the dimwitted morons on the road.Your heavy and inefficient vehicle is not only a danger to others, but to yourself as well.
You equate a heavy and inflexible frame with improved safety, but this is not reality, and (if you haven't noticed) the exact opposite direction that car manufacturers have taken ever since safety standards were put in place.http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2009/09/iihs-crash-chevy-malibu-bel-air.html [latimes.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897857</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29900231</id>
	<title>501km?</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1256756700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so what, too crappy to use a real measurement, like miles? you and your European short miles~</p><p>what?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so what , too crappy to use a real measurement , like miles ?
you and your European short miles ~ what ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so what, too crappy to use a real measurement, like miles?
you and your European short miles~what?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29904387</id>
	<title>Re:If crash then (crushed AND electrocuted)</title>
	<author>jarden\_from\_cerberus</author>
	<datestamp>1256734380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tesla roadsters are built to handle crashes <i> on the same road as your car</i>, and aren't nearly as tissue-like as you seem to imagine.</p><p>Tesla was rear-ended by a Prius, and the impact pushed it under the rear of a SUV.<br>Wired.com has more:<br><a href="http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/totaled-tesla-driver/" title="wired.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/totaled-tesla-driver/</a> [wired.com]</p><p>Yeah, that's a VW Touareg ass-end up in the air. Tesla driver walked away, his only complaint was the headrest/roof hurt the top of his head. With a multi-ton SUV on it, I'm not surprised...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tesla roadsters are built to handle crashes on the same road as your car , and are n't nearly as tissue-like as you seem to imagine.Tesla was rear-ended by a Prius , and the impact pushed it under the rear of a SUV.Wired.com has more : http : //www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/totaled-tesla-driver/ [ wired.com ] Yeah , that 's a VW Touareg ass-end up in the air .
Tesla driver walked away , his only complaint was the headrest/roof hurt the top of his head .
With a multi-ton SUV on it , I 'm not surprised.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tesla roadsters are built to handle crashes  on the same road as your car, and aren't nearly as tissue-like as you seem to imagine.Tesla was rear-ended by a Prius, and the impact pushed it under the rear of a SUV.Wired.com has more:http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/totaled-tesla-driver/ [wired.com]Yeah, that's a VW Touareg ass-end up in the air.
Tesla driver walked away, his only complaint was the headrest/roof hurt the top of his head.
With a multi-ton SUV on it, I'm not surprised...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897857</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899559</id>
	<title>Wow.  That's progress...</title>
	<author>Potent</author>
	<datestamp>1256754180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It goes exactly half as far before "refueling" as my 1995 GMC half ton with 6.5L turbo diesel can go on a single tank of fuel.  The GMC has 250K miles on the ODO and I paid $2900.00 for it last year.</p><p>I can buy enough diesel fuel to drive another half million miles for the price of the Tesla even before figuring in the cost of its electricity.  LOL</p><p>That's with a 14-year old pickup truck.  Don't even get me started on the total cost of Volkswagen TDI versus these things.  You can't beat dead dinosaurs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It goes exactly half as far before " refueling " as my 1995 GMC half ton with 6.5L turbo diesel can go on a single tank of fuel .
The GMC has 250K miles on the ODO and I paid $ 2900.00 for it last year.I can buy enough diesel fuel to drive another half million miles for the price of the Tesla even before figuring in the cost of its electricity .
LOLThat 's with a 14-year old pickup truck .
Do n't even get me started on the total cost of Volkswagen TDI versus these things .
You ca n't beat dead dinosaurs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It goes exactly half as far before "refueling" as my 1995 GMC half ton with 6.5L turbo diesel can go on a single tank of fuel.
The GMC has 250K miles on the ODO and I paid $2900.00 for it last year.I can buy enough diesel fuel to drive another half million miles for the price of the Tesla even before figuring in the cost of its electricity.
LOLThat's with a 14-year old pickup truck.
Don't even get me started on the total cost of Volkswagen TDI versus these things.
You can't beat dead dinosaurs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29900525</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256757840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;Why not just rent a specialized vehicle when you need one?</p><p>
&nbsp; Because it's expensive and time-consuming.  The last time I rented a car when mine was in the shop, it took three hours.  A large part of the reason you own a car is to have \_convenient\_ transportation \_on demand\_.  Otherwise, you might as well say "why not hire movers" or "why not pay couriers to bring your groceries home" for every chore.  Also, most local car rental places do not in fact have a wide variety of vehicles from which to choose.  Major airports, maybe; specialized places like U-Haul.  But you can't drop by your neighborhood Hertz or Budget office and pick up any unusual vehicle you happen to need at the moment.  Even if they have them in the fleet, you'll have to arrange ahead of time for the car to be where you need it.</p><p>Most people can't afford a fleet of cars optimized for every need, so you have to go for a compromise design that will often be too much for what you need.  To put the car point into a Unix analogy for Slashdot, every single one of the Unix shells is overkill for listing files.  But no one expects to download a different shell for every command just to save memory for the times when you only want ls.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Why not just rent a specialized vehicle when you need one ?
  Because it 's expensive and time-consuming .
The last time I rented a car when mine was in the shop , it took three hours .
A large part of the reason you own a car is to have \ _convenient \ _ transportation \ _on demand \ _ .
Otherwise , you might as well say " why not hire movers " or " why not pay couriers to bring your groceries home " for every chore .
Also , most local car rental places do not in fact have a wide variety of vehicles from which to choose .
Major airports , maybe ; specialized places like U-Haul .
But you ca n't drop by your neighborhood Hertz or Budget office and pick up any unusual vehicle you happen to need at the moment .
Even if they have them in the fleet , you 'll have to arrange ahead of time for the car to be where you need it.Most people ca n't afford a fleet of cars optimized for every need , so you have to go for a compromise design that will often be too much for what you need .
To put the car point into a Unix analogy for Slashdot , every single one of the Unix shells is overkill for listing files .
But no one expects to download a different shell for every command just to save memory for the times when you only want ls .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;Why not just rent a specialized vehicle when you need one?
  Because it's expensive and time-consuming.
The last time I rented a car when mine was in the shop, it took three hours.
A large part of the reason you own a car is to have \_convenient\_ transportation \_on demand\_.
Otherwise, you might as well say "why not hire movers" or "why not pay couriers to bring your groceries home" for every chore.
Also, most local car rental places do not in fact have a wide variety of vehicles from which to choose.
Major airports, maybe; specialized places like U-Haul.
But you can't drop by your neighborhood Hertz or Budget office and pick up any unusual vehicle you happen to need at the moment.
Even if they have them in the fleet, you'll have to arrange ahead of time for the car to be where you need it.Most people can't afford a fleet of cars optimized for every need, so you have to go for a compromise design that will often be too much for what you need.
To put the car point into a Unix analogy for Slashdot, every single one of the Unix shells is overkill for listing files.
But no one expects to download a different shell for every command just to save memory for the times when you only want ls.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897295</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29903187</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Falconhell</author>
	<datestamp>1256727360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A more accurate assesment will be able to be made when the fuel use for the Diesel generator used to charge the tesla is released, Simons blog promises to do so. A generator had to be used as most of the trip was off the power grid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A more accurate assesment will be able to be made when the fuel use for the Diesel generator used to charge the tesla is released , Simons blog promises to do so .
A generator had to be used as most of the trip was off the power grid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A more accurate assesment will be able to be made when the fuel use for the Diesel generator used to charge the tesla is released, Simons blog promises to do so.
A generator had to be used as most of the trip was off the power grid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899173</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896435</id>
	<title>I'm sorry...</title>
	<author>cvtan</author>
	<datestamp>1256741280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>but something with 7000 batteries that cost $100k and can only hold two people is just not viable transportation.  Nice toy-not a real vehicle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>but something with 7000 batteries that cost $ 100k and can only hold two people is just not viable transportation .
Nice toy-not a real vehicle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but something with 7000 batteries that cost $100k and can only hold two people is just not viable transportation.
Nice toy-not a real vehicle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897883</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>relguj9</author>
	<datestamp>1256746980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>313 miles is almost exactly the range of my '99 Subaru Outback Legacy (15-gallon tank), which is worth about $2500 now.  Except I can easily refuel that and keep going.  The trip to my folks' house is 365 miles.</p><p>I had assumed that with all the talk of new technology Tesla was going to be comparable with the hybrids.  This article helps re-adjust my expectations, but it also gives me hope that by time they're generally affordable the range will be there too.</p></div><p>Well, for ME, this car IS general purpose.  I haven't driven more than 150 miles in a single day in probably 4 years.  And when I did, it was because my job required me to and I was getting paid by the mile or had the option of renting.<br> <br>

If you are planning on hauling your family across multiple states (or longways across a really big state) then this vehicle definitely isn't for you.  However, I can't imagine it costing that much to rent or just buy a cheap van and keep it in the garage for the times you do.<br> <br>

The price tag is way too high though, I'm looking at the Chevy Volt or a similar series hybrid car in the next 5 years or so to be in a good price range.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>313 miles is almost exactly the range of my '99 Subaru Outback Legacy ( 15-gallon tank ) , which is worth about $ 2500 now .
Except I can easily refuel that and keep going .
The trip to my folks ' house is 365 miles.I had assumed that with all the talk of new technology Tesla was going to be comparable with the hybrids .
This article helps re-adjust my expectations , but it also gives me hope that by time they 're generally affordable the range will be there too.Well , for ME , this car IS general purpose .
I have n't driven more than 150 miles in a single day in probably 4 years .
And when I did , it was because my job required me to and I was getting paid by the mile or had the option of renting .
If you are planning on hauling your family across multiple states ( or longways across a really big state ) then this vehicle definitely is n't for you .
However , I ca n't imagine it costing that much to rent or just buy a cheap van and keep it in the garage for the times you do .
The price tag is way too high though , I 'm looking at the Chevy Volt or a similar series hybrid car in the next 5 years or so to be in a good price range .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>313 miles is almost exactly the range of my '99 Subaru Outback Legacy (15-gallon tank), which is worth about $2500 now.
Except I can easily refuel that and keep going.
The trip to my folks' house is 365 miles.I had assumed that with all the talk of new technology Tesla was going to be comparable with the hybrids.
This article helps re-adjust my expectations, but it also gives me hope that by time they're generally affordable the range will be there too.Well, for ME, this car IS general purpose.
I haven't driven more than 150 miles in a single day in probably 4 years.
And when I did, it was because my job required me to and I was getting paid by the mile or had the option of renting.
If you are planning on hauling your family across multiple states (or longways across a really big state) then this vehicle definitely isn't for you.
However, I can't imagine it costing that much to rent or just buy a cheap van and keep it in the garage for the times you do.
The price tag is way too high though, I'm looking at the Chevy Volt or a similar series hybrid car in the next 5 years or so to be in a good price range.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29899173</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>Gordonjcp</author>
	<datestamp>1256752560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>313 miles on 15 US gallons of fuel?  That's pretty thirsty - about 21 US mpg.  My 1988 Citroen CX with its heavy carb-fed 2.2 litre engine can easily break 30 US mpg.  I was slightly irritated to find that it barely achieved 34mpg on a long run (around 350 miles) at the weekend.  Obviously time to get under the bonnet again...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>313 miles on 15 US gallons of fuel ?
That 's pretty thirsty - about 21 US mpg .
My 1988 Citroen CX with its heavy carb-fed 2.2 litre engine can easily break 30 US mpg .
I was slightly irritated to find that it barely achieved 34mpg on a long run ( around 350 miles ) at the weekend .
Obviously time to get under the bonnet again.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>313 miles on 15 US gallons of fuel?
That's pretty thirsty - about 21 US mpg.
My 1988 Citroen CX with its heavy carb-fed 2.2 litre engine can easily break 30 US mpg.
I was slightly irritated to find that it barely achieved 34mpg on a long run (around 350 miles) at the weekend.
Obviously time to get under the bonnet again...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29897605</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>CrimsonAvenger</author>
	<datestamp>1256745960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Does every car have to be general purpose?</p></div></blockquote><p>No, but it's probably fair to say that every $100,000 car ought to be general purpose.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does every car have to be general purpose ? No , but it 's probably fair to say that every $ 100,000 car ought to be general purpose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does every car have to be general purpose?No, but it's probably fair to say that every $100,000 car ought to be general purpose.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896667</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896725</id>
	<title>Re:That's nice...</title>
	<author>MBGMorden</author>
	<datestamp>1256742420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not for any long distance.  I do some travelling throughout the year - not extreme, but maybe 4 trips per year.  Usually at least once per year I'll go from Charleston, SC to Miami, FL.  At 80mph(~130km/h) on the interstate that drive is a bit long, but perfectly doable.  At 35mph (~ the 55km/h speed here) it simply wouldn't be doable without stopping and spending the night. That's an extra day off from work, and extra night in a hotel, and extra hassle.</p><p>Don't get me wrong I'm all for electric, but only so long as I can maintain a decent speed (70+ mph for long trips, or 55mph for local driving), and that when I'm out of power I can stop and have full power again (either through rapid charging or a battery swap) within 15 minutes or less.  I'm also personally not switching until such charging/switching stations were at least remotely common beside a road.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not for any long distance .
I do some travelling throughout the year - not extreme , but maybe 4 trips per year .
Usually at least once per year I 'll go from Charleston , SC to Miami , FL .
At 80mph ( ~ 130km/h ) on the interstate that drive is a bit long , but perfectly doable .
At 35mph ( ~ the 55km/h speed here ) it simply would n't be doable without stopping and spending the night .
That 's an extra day off from work , and extra night in a hotel , and extra hassle.Do n't get me wrong I 'm all for electric , but only so long as I can maintain a decent speed ( 70 + mph for long trips , or 55mph for local driving ) , and that when I 'm out of power I can stop and have full power again ( either through rapid charging or a battery swap ) within 15 minutes or less .
I 'm also personally not switching until such charging/switching stations were at least remotely common beside a road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not for any long distance.
I do some travelling throughout the year - not extreme, but maybe 4 trips per year.
Usually at least once per year I'll go from Charleston, SC to Miami, FL.
At 80mph(~130km/h) on the interstate that drive is a bit long, but perfectly doable.
At 35mph (~ the 55km/h speed here) it simply wouldn't be doable without stopping and spending the night.
That's an extra day off from work, and extra night in a hotel, and extra hassle.Don't get me wrong I'm all for electric, but only so long as I can maintain a decent speed (70+ mph for long trips, or 55mph for local driving), and that when I'm out of power I can stop and have full power again (either through rapid charging or a battery swap) within 15 minutes or less.
I'm also personally not switching until such charging/switching stations were at least remotely common beside a road.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896245</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898881</id>
	<title>Re:Electric cars are not better for the enviornmen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256751300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Out where I grew up (redneck PA) the majority of our power came from nuclear.  Cue all the chernobyl trolls, but the rest of you enviromental party poopers best be quiet, nuclear power is awesome.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Out where I grew up ( redneck PA ) the majority of our power came from nuclear .
Cue all the chernobyl trolls , but the rest of you enviromental party poopers best be quiet , nuclear power is awesome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Out where I grew up (redneck PA) the majority of our power came from nuclear.
Cue all the chernobyl trolls, but the rest of you enviromental party poopers best be quiet, nuclear power is awesome.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898281</id>
	<title>Re:That bad, eh?</title>
	<author>operagost</author>
	<datestamp>1256748720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <tt>Don't give me this soviet russia 'one car for everyone and every purpose' bs. I want choices.</tt></p></div> </blockquote><p>We're the Soviet USA government.  We don't do that sort of thing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't give me this soviet russia 'one car for everyone and every purpose ' bs .
I want choices .
We 're the Soviet USA government .
We do n't do that sort of thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Don't give me this soviet russia 'one car for everyone and every purpose' bs.
I want choices.
We're the Soviet USA government.
We don't do that sort of thing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896667</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898719</id>
	<title>The charging problem</title>
	<author>Nerdposeur</author>
	<datestamp>1256750700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many people have pointed out that it will be hard to charge batteries as fast as you can fill a tank of gas. But what if you didn't charge? What if you pulled into a station and swapped your low battery out for a full one? You could be ready to go in seconds.</p><p>With some vehicle standardization, you might even have a robot arm that does it automatically.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many people have pointed out that it will be hard to charge batteries as fast as you can fill a tank of gas .
But what if you did n't charge ?
What if you pulled into a station and swapped your low battery out for a full one ?
You could be ready to go in seconds.With some vehicle standardization , you might even have a robot arm that does it automatically .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many people have pointed out that it will be hard to charge batteries as fast as you can fill a tank of gas.
But what if you didn't charge?
What if you pulled into a station and swapped your low battery out for a full one?
You could be ready to go in seconds.With some vehicle standardization, you might even have a robot arm that does it automatically.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29898035</id>
	<title>Re:I'm sorry...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256747580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>but something with 7000 batteries that cost $100k and can only hold two people is just not viable transportation.  Nice toy-not a real vehicle.</p></div><p>Which of the three make it not not viable transportation or a real vehicle? The fact that it has 7000 batteries should not factor in at all. Would you feel better if it was just one big battery of equivalent size? As for the $100k and 2 person point, most sports cars over $100k are only 2 person cars. So, are they also not real vehicles. For you they might not be feasible but for someone that does not have kids, has a relatively short commute, and can afford it, it is viable transportation and I bet a lot of fun.
<br>
When most new technologies are released, they are usually priced where the average person can not afford it. But over time either the price will come down or newer cheaper versions are build. Look at the cost of the first Plasma TVs that came out, they were around $10k to $15K. Enough people bought them at that price that the price started dropping and other vendors started producing cheaper and better quality TVs. The same happened with PCs, Gaming consoles, DVD players, Blue-Ray, and the list goes on. The same thing will happen here. Tesla is already working on a new model (http://www.teslamotors.com/models/index.php) that is cheaper ($50K), has better range and can hold more than 2 people.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>but something with 7000 batteries that cost $ 100k and can only hold two people is just not viable transportation .
Nice toy-not a real vehicle.Which of the three make it not not viable transportation or a real vehicle ?
The fact that it has 7000 batteries should not factor in at all .
Would you feel better if it was just one big battery of equivalent size ?
As for the $ 100k and 2 person point , most sports cars over $ 100k are only 2 person cars .
So , are they also not real vehicles .
For you they might not be feasible but for someone that does not have kids , has a relatively short commute , and can afford it , it is viable transportation and I bet a lot of fun .
When most new technologies are released , they are usually priced where the average person can not afford it .
But over time either the price will come down or newer cheaper versions are build .
Look at the cost of the first Plasma TVs that came out , they were around $ 10k to $ 15K .
Enough people bought them at that price that the price started dropping and other vendors started producing cheaper and better quality TVs .
The same happened with PCs , Gaming consoles , DVD players , Blue-Ray , and the list goes on .
The same thing will happen here .
Tesla is already working on a new model ( http : //www.teslamotors.com/models/index.php ) that is cheaper ( $ 50K ) , has better range and can hold more than 2 people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but something with 7000 batteries that cost $100k and can only hold two people is just not viable transportation.
Nice toy-not a real vehicle.Which of the three make it not not viable transportation or a real vehicle?
The fact that it has 7000 batteries should not factor in at all.
Would you feel better if it was just one big battery of equivalent size?
As for the $100k and 2 person point, most sports cars over $100k are only 2 person cars.
So, are they also not real vehicles.
For you they might not be feasible but for someone that does not have kids, has a relatively short commute, and can afford it, it is viable transportation and I bet a lot of fun.
When most new technologies are released, they are usually priced where the average person can not afford it.
But over time either the price will come down or newer cheaper versions are build.
Look at the cost of the first Plasma TVs that came out, they were around $10k to $15K.
Enough people bought them at that price that the price started dropping and other vendors started producing cheaper and better quality TVs.
The same happened with PCs, Gaming consoles, DVD players, Blue-Ray, and the list goes on.
The same thing will happen here.
Tesla is already working on a new model (http://www.teslamotors.com/models/index.php) that is cheaper ($50K), has better range and can hold more than 2 people.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_28_135239.29896435</parent>
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