<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_27_2127259</id>
	<title>Moving Away From the IT Field?</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1256664180000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>irving47 writes <i>'With the economy the way it is, it's a little iffy to even think about switching careers completely, but lately, I've gotten more and more fed up with trying to keep up with the technical demands of companies and customers that are financially and even verbally unappreciative. While I might be good at it, and the money is adequate, I'm curious to hear from Slashdotters who have gone cold-turkey from their IT/Networking careers to something once foreign to them. How did you deal with the income difference, if any? Do you find yourself dealing with people more, and if so, how did that work out?'</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>irving47 writes 'With the economy the way it is , it 's a little iffy to even think about switching careers completely , but lately , I 've gotten more and more fed up with trying to keep up with the technical demands of companies and customers that are financially and even verbally unappreciative .
While I might be good at it , and the money is adequate , I 'm curious to hear from Slashdotters who have gone cold-turkey from their IT/Networking careers to something once foreign to them .
How did you deal with the income difference , if any ?
Do you find yourself dealing with people more , and if so , how did that work out ?
'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>irving47 writes 'With the economy the way it is, it's a little iffy to even think about switching careers completely, but lately, I've gotten more and more fed up with trying to keep up with the technical demands of companies and customers that are financially and even verbally unappreciative.
While I might be good at it, and the money is adequate, I'm curious to hear from Slashdotters who have gone cold-turkey from their IT/Networking careers to something once foreign to them.
How did you deal with the income difference, if any?
Do you find yourself dealing with people more, and if so, how did that work out?
'</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894789</id>
	<title>Einstein quote + my take on the problem</title>
	<author>Qbertino</author>
	<datestamp>1256729520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about." - Albert Einstein</p><p>Know that your happiness doesn't depend on your salary or wether what you're doing is something you've been doing for 20 years or just 2 months. I'd start cutting it a little thicker. Go part time or reduce your hours and overtime. If you get fired, all the better. You'll have a reason to reorientate. Quite often life needs to kick us in the butt before we get it one with change that is overdue. 2 years ago I was freelance and broke in a dead end in a pointless town. I did my GD, studied CS for 14 weeks (and dropped it again due to a insufficient cost/benefit ratio), did a larger web project that was 60\% / 40\% idiots all around (a bareable ratio at the time) but in the end it was a dead end. I moved away. Now I got a dayjob in a million in game developement in a company making so much money it's bizar, a fair salary, free breakfast &amp; lunch, smart and nice colleagues that treat me with respect and are gratefull for my experience and advice and lots of fun stuff to do and programm on. And I do something entirely different in my spare time - tango dancing, which is fun and has me catching up on my typical nerdy girl-encounter-deficiency.</p><p>And if this life and dayjob becomes a drag one day, I won't take as long to cut lose as last time.</p><p>There are countless things out there that are fun to do and to live on. Start trying things out. Now. Wether you're going to be a park ranger, a trucker, a salesman, a freelance IT consultant or an oil rig worker doesn't matter. I personaly have a diploma in performing arts and could even imagine going back to that. You may have something else in your background. Go out and try or put yourself in a situation that either solves your problems in your current occupation or shoves you into the next. Packing up and moving on might be a solution too.</p><p>Good Luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life , when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about .
" - Albert EinsteinKnow that your happiness does n't depend on your salary or wether what you 're doing is something you 've been doing for 20 years or just 2 months .
I 'd start cutting it a little thicker .
Go part time or reduce your hours and overtime .
If you get fired , all the better .
You 'll have a reason to reorientate .
Quite often life needs to kick us in the butt before we get it one with change that is overdue .
2 years ago I was freelance and broke in a dead end in a pointless town .
I did my GD , studied CS for 14 weeks ( and dropped it again due to a insufficient cost/benefit ratio ) , did a larger web project that was 60 \ % / 40 \ % idiots all around ( a bareable ratio at the time ) but in the end it was a dead end .
I moved away .
Now I got a dayjob in a million in game developement in a company making so much money it 's bizar , a fair salary , free breakfast &amp; lunch , smart and nice colleagues that treat me with respect and are gratefull for my experience and advice and lots of fun stuff to do and programm on .
And I do something entirely different in my spare time - tango dancing , which is fun and has me catching up on my typical nerdy girl-encounter-deficiency.And if this life and dayjob becomes a drag one day , I wo n't take as long to cut lose as last time.There are countless things out there that are fun to do and to live on .
Start trying things out .
Now. Wether you 're going to be a park ranger , a trucker , a salesman , a freelance IT consultant or an oil rig worker does n't matter .
I personaly have a diploma in performing arts and could even imagine going back to that .
You may have something else in your background .
Go out and try or put yourself in a situation that either solves your problems in your current occupation or shoves you into the next .
Packing up and moving on might be a solution too.Good Luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.
" - Albert EinsteinKnow that your happiness doesn't depend on your salary or wether what you're doing is something you've been doing for 20 years or just 2 months.
I'd start cutting it a little thicker.
Go part time or reduce your hours and overtime.
If you get fired, all the better.
You'll have a reason to reorientate.
Quite often life needs to kick us in the butt before we get it one with change that is overdue.
2 years ago I was freelance and broke in a dead end in a pointless town.
I did my GD, studied CS for 14 weeks (and dropped it again due to a insufficient cost/benefit ratio), did a larger web project that was 60\% / 40\% idiots all around (a bareable ratio at the time) but in the end it was a dead end.
I moved away.
Now I got a dayjob in a million in game developement in a company making so much money it's bizar, a fair salary, free breakfast &amp; lunch, smart and nice colleagues that treat me with respect and are gratefull for my experience and advice and lots of fun stuff to do and programm on.
And I do something entirely different in my spare time - tango dancing, which is fun and has me catching up on my typical nerdy girl-encounter-deficiency.And if this life and dayjob becomes a drag one day, I won't take as long to cut lose as last time.There are countless things out there that are fun to do and to live on.
Start trying things out.
Now. Wether you're going to be a park ranger, a trucker, a salesman, a freelance IT consultant or an oil rig worker doesn't matter.
I personaly have a diploma in performing arts and could even imagine going back to that.
You may have something else in your background.
Go out and try or put yourself in a situation that either solves your problems in your current occupation or shoves you into the next.
Packing up and moving on might be a solution too.Good Luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893585</id>
	<title>Depends on if you have a degree or not.</title>
	<author>WarJolt</author>
	<datestamp>1256669520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some IT guys I know don't have degrees. If you have a bachelor degree in anything it would be a lot easier to change careers. Go to school part time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some IT guys I know do n't have degrees .
If you have a bachelor degree in anything it would be a lot easier to change careers .
Go to school part time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some IT guys I know don't have degrees.
If you have a bachelor degree in anything it would be a lot easier to change careers.
Go to school part time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29920055</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>StuartLaJoie</author>
	<datestamp>1256831340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your concept of what I.T. is only works in small companies. In companies with large I.T. workforces or large information assets, the job of I.T. is NOT to help the end user make the most of their available assets. In those cases, the job of I.T. is to protect company information, secure I.T. equipment against uses which may create a liability to the company or violate contracts or laws, and to enforce company policies (often based on legal requirements) regarding the use of information and I.T. equipment.<br> <br>

With the massive economic downturn, I.T. (in the U.S., at any rate) is more frequently called upon by Human Resources deptartments in large organizations to ferret out misuse of I.T. assets in order to terminate employees in such a way that unemployment compensation can be legally denied. This allows the company to perform RIFs without the penalty paid in higher unemployment insurance costs.<br> <br>

Never assume that I.T. exists only to help the end user. In many cases, if not most, I.T. is in place specifically to prevent the end user from overstepping their bounds or using information and assets in ways not approved by the governing body of the business.<br> <br>

I don't mean to suggest that this adversarial relationship is correct, nor excuse the dismissive attitude many I.T. pros have toward end users, but it is one of the chief purposes of current I.T. work. Were most companies to use I.T. assets to their full potential, they would need far less of those assets.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your concept of what I.T .
is only works in small companies .
In companies with large I.T .
workforces or large information assets , the job of I.T .
is NOT to help the end user make the most of their available assets .
In those cases , the job of I.T .
is to protect company information , secure I.T .
equipment against uses which may create a liability to the company or violate contracts or laws , and to enforce company policies ( often based on legal requirements ) regarding the use of information and I.T .
equipment . With the massive economic downturn , I.T .
( in the U.S. , at any rate ) is more frequently called upon by Human Resources deptartments in large organizations to ferret out misuse of I.T .
assets in order to terminate employees in such a way that unemployment compensation can be legally denied .
This allows the company to perform RIFs without the penalty paid in higher unemployment insurance costs .
Never assume that I.T .
exists only to help the end user .
In many cases , if not most , I.T .
is in place specifically to prevent the end user from overstepping their bounds or using information and assets in ways not approved by the governing body of the business .
I do n't mean to suggest that this adversarial relationship is correct , nor excuse the dismissive attitude many I.T .
pros have toward end users , but it is one of the chief purposes of current I.T .
work. Were most companies to use I.T .
assets to their full potential , they would need far less of those assets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your concept of what I.T.
is only works in small companies.
In companies with large I.T.
workforces or large information assets, the job of I.T.
is NOT to help the end user make the most of their available assets.
In those cases, the job of I.T.
is to protect company information, secure I.T.
equipment against uses which may create a liability to the company or violate contracts or laws, and to enforce company policies (often based on legal requirements) regarding the use of information and I.T.
equipment. 

With the massive economic downturn, I.T.
(in the U.S., at any rate) is more frequently called upon by Human Resources deptartments in large organizations to ferret out misuse of I.T.
assets in order to terminate employees in such a way that unemployment compensation can be legally denied.
This allows the company to perform RIFs without the penalty paid in higher unemployment insurance costs.
Never assume that I.T.
exists only to help the end user.
In many cases, if not most, I.T.
is in place specifically to prevent the end user from overstepping their bounds or using information and assets in ways not approved by the governing body of the business.
I don't mean to suggest that this adversarial relationship is correct, nor excuse the dismissive attitude many I.T.
pros have toward end users, but it is one of the chief purposes of current I.T.
work. Were most companies to use I.T.
assets to their full potential, they would need far less of those assets.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895225</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29899073</id>
	<title>Re:Allow me to summarize</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256752200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i dont know about you but i love my job.<br>its a great career and its upper managements thinking out of there butt fault if they outsource yours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i dont know about you but i love my job.its a great career and its upper managements thinking out of there butt fault if they outsource yours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i dont know about you but i love my job.its a great career and its upper managements thinking out of there butt fault if they outsource yours.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895861</id>
	<title>Re:Allow me to summarize</title>
	<author>shentino</author>
	<datestamp>1256738700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My guess is that IT itself is a bubble.</p><p>Companies have at least a percieved abundance of people to hire from, so they don't think they can bother treating you with respect.</p><p>The minute companies start losing supply, they'll smarten up.</p><p>Unfortuantely, employment is just like any other business transaction:  All about who has the most bargaining power.</p><p>Except for having friends in high places, there is NO SUBSTITUTE for having balls enough to negotiate.</p><p>Doubly so if you're in a tanking economy slugging it out with a bazillion other people desperate for work, fighting over jobs being provided by companies who are already pinching pennies as it is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My guess is that IT itself is a bubble.Companies have at least a percieved abundance of people to hire from , so they do n't think they can bother treating you with respect.The minute companies start losing supply , they 'll smarten up.Unfortuantely , employment is just like any other business transaction : All about who has the most bargaining power.Except for having friends in high places , there is NO SUBSTITUTE for having balls enough to negotiate.Doubly so if you 're in a tanking economy slugging it out with a bazillion other people desperate for work , fighting over jobs being provided by companies who are already pinching pennies as it is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My guess is that IT itself is a bubble.Companies have at least a percieved abundance of people to hire from, so they don't think they can bother treating you with respect.The minute companies start losing supply, they'll smarten up.Unfortuantely, employment is just like any other business transaction:  All about who has the most bargaining power.Except for having friends in high places, there is NO SUBSTITUTE for having balls enough to negotiate.Doubly so if you're in a tanking economy slugging it out with a bazillion other people desperate for work, fighting over jobs being provided by companies who are already pinching pennies as it is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894013</id>
	<title>Re:Getting old in IT is the kiss of death.</title>
	<author>carolfromoz</author>
	<datestamp>1256761380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm hoping this will change. Yes IT has been perceived as a young person's game but that is just going to have to change as more of us stick around and resist going into management. One of the things I've always really liked about IT is that it's about getting the job done - and as it stands people will accept just about anyone when something needs to be done.<br> <br>

I should know. As a female techie I've endured enough surprised looks over the years, but I've never been shown the door. The best one was when I turned up at a navy base 7 months pregnant to sort something out with a server, and had to ask the guy to move the rack (it was on wheels) because I couldn't fit behind it!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm hoping this will change .
Yes IT has been perceived as a young person 's game but that is just going to have to change as more of us stick around and resist going into management .
One of the things I 've always really liked about IT is that it 's about getting the job done - and as it stands people will accept just about anyone when something needs to be done .
I should know .
As a female techie I 've endured enough surprised looks over the years , but I 've never been shown the door .
The best one was when I turned up at a navy base 7 months pregnant to sort something out with a server , and had to ask the guy to move the rack ( it was on wheels ) because I could n't fit behind it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm hoping this will change.
Yes IT has been perceived as a young person's game but that is just going to have to change as more of us stick around and resist going into management.
One of the things I've always really liked about IT is that it's about getting the job done - and as it stands people will accept just about anyone when something needs to be done.
I should know.
As a female techie I've endured enough surprised looks over the years, but I've never been shown the door.
The best one was when I turned up at a navy base 7 months pregnant to sort something out with a server, and had to ask the guy to move the rack (it was on wheels) because I couldn't fit behind it!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893773</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902627</id>
	<title>Trucking</title>
	<author>FrozenGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1256724480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I got fed up with IT at one point so I got my commercial driver's licence and did some linehaul (i.e. long distance) trucking.  Money was about comparable.  Didn't really spend that much more time dealing directly with carbon-based units.  Being away from home for an indeterminate amount of time (days to weeks, depending on what's needed where and when) kind of bites.
<br>
I found that I missed creating software too much and went back to it.  But I still have my licence as a back-up in case<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I got fed up with IT at one point so I got my commercial driver 's licence and did some linehaul ( i.e .
long distance ) trucking .
Money was about comparable .
Did n't really spend that much more time dealing directly with carbon-based units .
Being away from home for an indeterminate amount of time ( days to weeks , depending on what 's needed where and when ) kind of bites .
I found that I missed creating software too much and went back to it .
But I still have my licence as a back-up in case .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got fed up with IT at one point so I got my commercial driver's licence and did some linehaul (i.e.
long distance) trucking.
Money was about comparable.
Didn't really spend that much more time dealing directly with carbon-based units.
Being away from home for an indeterminate amount of time (days to weeks, depending on what's needed where and when) kind of bites.
I found that I missed creating software too much and went back to it.
But I still have my licence as a back-up in case ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902037</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Alpha830RulZ</author>
	<datestamp>1256721420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>May I suggest a couple of things?  One, read this: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism" title="wikipedia.org"> on narcissism.</a> [wikipedia.org]  I am not saying this to insult you or criticize you - I have this issue myself.  But think for a moment about the inherent judgment you are making - that intelligence = worth, and lesser intelligence = lesser worth.  How do you expect people to react to you if you project this value system?  A conversation need not be stimulating to be pleasant. If you walk away from all conversations that aren't stimulating, the people you are walking away from may not enjoy the experience, which will lead to fewer and less fulfilling conversations in the future.</p><p>Second, read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People.  This is a pretty good explication of the simple mechanics of how to be likeable.  Each of these people you are bored with probably likes at least one thing that you like also (assuming that you like sex ).  What kind of restaurants do they like, what hobbies do they have, what are their kids up to?  This is the social lubrication of life.  When I'm trying to get to know a co-worker, I'll ask them, "What do you like to do for fun?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>May I suggest a couple of things ?
One , read this : on narcissism .
[ wikipedia.org ] I am not saying this to insult you or criticize you - I have this issue myself .
But think for a moment about the inherent judgment you are making - that intelligence = worth , and lesser intelligence = lesser worth .
How do you expect people to react to you if you project this value system ?
A conversation need not be stimulating to be pleasant .
If you walk away from all conversations that are n't stimulating , the people you are walking away from may not enjoy the experience , which will lead to fewer and less fulfilling conversations in the future.Second , read Dale Carnegie 's How to Win Friends and Influence People .
This is a pretty good explication of the simple mechanics of how to be likeable .
Each of these people you are bored with probably likes at least one thing that you like also ( assuming that you like sex ) .
What kind of restaurants do they like , what hobbies do they have , what are their kids up to ?
This is the social lubrication of life .
When I 'm trying to get to know a co-worker , I 'll ask them , " What do you like to do for fun ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>May I suggest a couple of things?
One, read this:  on narcissism.
[wikipedia.org]  I am not saying this to insult you or criticize you - I have this issue myself.
But think for a moment about the inherent judgment you are making - that intelligence = worth, and lesser intelligence = lesser worth.
How do you expect people to react to you if you project this value system?
A conversation need not be stimulating to be pleasant.
If you walk away from all conversations that aren't stimulating, the people you are walking away from may not enjoy the experience, which will lead to fewer and less fulfilling conversations in the future.Second, read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People.
This is a pretty good explication of the simple mechanics of how to be likeable.
Each of these people you are bored with probably likes at least one thing that you like also (assuming that you like sex ).
What kind of restaurants do they like, what hobbies do they have, what are their kids up to?
This is the social lubrication of life.
When I'm trying to get to know a co-worker, I'll ask them, "What do you like to do for fun?
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896381</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29905655</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256743140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed. 75\% of the problem is attitude. Everyone thinks their hot shit, but have the people skills of a cave troll. The reason sales and executives do so well, is that their careers depend on them developing good relationships with other people, mal-indended or not, it keeps you valuable. I work at a datacenter as a sysadmin, and we typically just hang out and wait for someone to come running with a problem. We explain what happened, and offer solutions to alleviate that pain. They love us and shovel in the cash. It's all about servicing the customer, and teaching them to appreciate value. If you offer a better way, they'll pay for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
75 \ % of the problem is attitude .
Everyone thinks their hot shit , but have the people skills of a cave troll .
The reason sales and executives do so well , is that their careers depend on them developing good relationships with other people , mal-indended or not , it keeps you valuable .
I work at a datacenter as a sysadmin , and we typically just hang out and wait for someone to come running with a problem .
We explain what happened , and offer solutions to alleviate that pain .
They love us and shovel in the cash .
It 's all about servicing the customer , and teaching them to appreciate value .
If you offer a better way , they 'll pay for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
75\% of the problem is attitude.
Everyone thinks their hot shit, but have the people skills of a cave troll.
The reason sales and executives do so well, is that their careers depend on them developing good relationships with other people, mal-indended or not, it keeps you valuable.
I work at a datacenter as a sysadmin, and we typically just hang out and wait for someone to come running with a problem.
We explain what happened, and offer solutions to alleviate that pain.
They love us and shovel in the cash.
It's all about servicing the customer, and teaching them to appreciate value.
If you offer a better way, they'll pay for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894509</id>
	<title>Re:Become a barber</title>
	<author>TheLink</author>
	<datestamp>1256725920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>&gt; Moral: become a barber<br><br>Or open a barber shop.<br><br>Will be a bit scary at the start since people tend to avoid new barbers - few want a crap haircut even if it's cheap. So may have to do some marketing and promo.</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Moral : become a barberOr open a barber shop.Will be a bit scary at the start since people tend to avoid new barbers - few want a crap haircut even if it 's cheap .
So may have to do some marketing and promo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Moral: become a barberOr open a barber shop.Will be a bit scary at the start since people tend to avoid new barbers - few want a crap haircut even if it's cheap.
So may have to do some marketing and promo.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893951</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29899031</id>
	<title>It's true...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256751960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's true. IT gets no respect these days and for obvious reasons.</p><p>First of all, unless you're in the position to FIRE somebody you will never get any respect. We will always be the guys who can program a VCR and to them, it's just something they don't want to take the time to learn. The problem is that they think they CAN learn everything about IT/IS. They all have PCs/Macs at home and they think that because they can browse porn at night and install freeware apps that they know it all.</p><p>What they do NOT seem to know is that IT/IS staff are the most powerful people at the company. We control everything that is worth money and that is information. Grant it, entry-level help desk employees do not have this power but upper level IT/IS staff do.</p><p>We also have an extremely broad skill set in that we may be the guy who gets called when a case fan is making funny noise or Word is acting up but we're also on call when a SAN has failed or an application server has slowed to a crawl and needs to be fixed. Not to mention, keeping or financial systems up and running/secure.</p><p>We run the world and they don't even know it.</p><p>Leave in middle of a server upgrade with your middle finger in the air.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's true .
IT gets no respect these days and for obvious reasons.First of all , unless you 're in the position to FIRE somebody you will never get any respect .
We will always be the guys who can program a VCR and to them , it 's just something they do n't want to take the time to learn .
The problem is that they think they CAN learn everything about IT/IS .
They all have PCs/Macs at home and they think that because they can browse porn at night and install freeware apps that they know it all.What they do NOT seem to know is that IT/IS staff are the most powerful people at the company .
We control everything that is worth money and that is information .
Grant it , entry-level help desk employees do not have this power but upper level IT/IS staff do.We also have an extremely broad skill set in that we may be the guy who gets called when a case fan is making funny noise or Word is acting up but we 're also on call when a SAN has failed or an application server has slowed to a crawl and needs to be fixed .
Not to mention , keeping or financial systems up and running/secure.We run the world and they do n't even know it.Leave in middle of a server upgrade with your middle finger in the air .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's true.
IT gets no respect these days and for obvious reasons.First of all, unless you're in the position to FIRE somebody you will never get any respect.
We will always be the guys who can program a VCR and to them, it's just something they don't want to take the time to learn.
The problem is that they think they CAN learn everything about IT/IS.
They all have PCs/Macs at home and they think that because they can browse porn at night and install freeware apps that they know it all.What they do NOT seem to know is that IT/IS staff are the most powerful people at the company.
We control everything that is worth money and that is information.
Grant it, entry-level help desk employees do not have this power but upper level IT/IS staff do.We also have an extremely broad skill set in that we may be the guy who gets called when a case fan is making funny noise or Word is acting up but we're also on call when a SAN has failed or an application server has slowed to a crawl and needs to be fixed.
Not to mention, keeping or financial systems up and running/secure.We run the world and they don't even know it.Leave in middle of a server upgrade with your middle finger in the air.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893741</id>
	<title>IT started to stink after the bubble burst</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256671740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But I kept on in the industry only to find the people I dealt with become more ignorant and abusive while the industry became flooded and jobs off-shored. All the newcomers had purchased a piece of paper from one institution or another proving they could memorize select parts of select books for a brief period of time. Soon, experienced people were teaching all these papered newcomers how to do what they purchased a piece of paper claiming they already knew and lied about in their interview. In very little time the degrading had slipped to piling on any job possible onto IT personnel and expect them to take a level of abuse that would not be tolerated against any other person. When it started to become difficult to find a job due to the flood of papered memorizers and the start of the depression that cemented my decision to abandon a burning and sinking ship.</p><p>I had to figure out what exactly I like to do and how it played into being able to work in IT. I had to consider what natural skills and talents were honed from programming and troubleshooting while finding quick and effective solutions. I chose to go engineering and in the trade industry where they lack quality engineers as the baby boomers retire away and all the youth are still suckered away towards a shrinking IT industry. Honestly, I get more satisfaction from it than I ever did in IT and the pay is solid and steady and better. In time machines and programs will come to replace more elements of the trades but that time is much farther off than the replacement of IT personnel. Vacations are constant as I get paid to go to other countries and paid while I am there. I actually regret having wasted any time in IT when I could have been doing this earlier!</p><p>Think about what you like and what you are naturally talented at when considering escape yourself. Many of the everyday disciplines learned in IT can be applied to many other fields when you apply the basic concepts. Cheesy as it sounds, do what you enjoy while playing towards your natural talents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But I kept on in the industry only to find the people I dealt with become more ignorant and abusive while the industry became flooded and jobs off-shored .
All the newcomers had purchased a piece of paper from one institution or another proving they could memorize select parts of select books for a brief period of time .
Soon , experienced people were teaching all these papered newcomers how to do what they purchased a piece of paper claiming they already knew and lied about in their interview .
In very little time the degrading had slipped to piling on any job possible onto IT personnel and expect them to take a level of abuse that would not be tolerated against any other person .
When it started to become difficult to find a job due to the flood of papered memorizers and the start of the depression that cemented my decision to abandon a burning and sinking ship.I had to figure out what exactly I like to do and how it played into being able to work in IT .
I had to consider what natural skills and talents were honed from programming and troubleshooting while finding quick and effective solutions .
I chose to go engineering and in the trade industry where they lack quality engineers as the baby boomers retire away and all the youth are still suckered away towards a shrinking IT industry .
Honestly , I get more satisfaction from it than I ever did in IT and the pay is solid and steady and better .
In time machines and programs will come to replace more elements of the trades but that time is much farther off than the replacement of IT personnel .
Vacations are constant as I get paid to go to other countries and paid while I am there .
I actually regret having wasted any time in IT when I could have been doing this earlier ! Think about what you like and what you are naturally talented at when considering escape yourself .
Many of the everyday disciplines learned in IT can be applied to many other fields when you apply the basic concepts .
Cheesy as it sounds , do what you enjoy while playing towards your natural talents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But I kept on in the industry only to find the people I dealt with become more ignorant and abusive while the industry became flooded and jobs off-shored.
All the newcomers had purchased a piece of paper from one institution or another proving they could memorize select parts of select books for a brief period of time.
Soon, experienced people were teaching all these papered newcomers how to do what they purchased a piece of paper claiming they already knew and lied about in their interview.
In very little time the degrading had slipped to piling on any job possible onto IT personnel and expect them to take a level of abuse that would not be tolerated against any other person.
When it started to become difficult to find a job due to the flood of papered memorizers and the start of the depression that cemented my decision to abandon a burning and sinking ship.I had to figure out what exactly I like to do and how it played into being able to work in IT.
I had to consider what natural skills and talents were honed from programming and troubleshooting while finding quick and effective solutions.
I chose to go engineering and in the trade industry where they lack quality engineers as the baby boomers retire away and all the youth are still suckered away towards a shrinking IT industry.
Honestly, I get more satisfaction from it than I ever did in IT and the pay is solid and steady and better.
In time machines and programs will come to replace more elements of the trades but that time is much farther off than the replacement of IT personnel.
Vacations are constant as I get paid to go to other countries and paid while I am there.
I actually regret having wasted any time in IT when I could have been doing this earlier!Think about what you like and what you are naturally talented at when considering escape yourself.
Many of the everyday disciplines learned in IT can be applied to many other fields when you apply the basic concepts.
Cheesy as it sounds, do what you enjoy while playing towards your natural talents.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893611</id>
	<title>Re:Bean Sprout Farming</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1256669940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To motivate you, imagine a Beowulf cluster of them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To motivate you , imagine a Beowulf cluster of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To motivate you, imagine a Beowulf cluster of them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894379</id>
	<title>Stupid title</title>
	<author>sdac</author>
	<datestamp>1256723580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So stupid title i didnt even read the stupid article</htmltext>
<tokenext>So stupid title i didnt even read the stupid article</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So stupid title i didnt even read the stupid article</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894445</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>Antiocheian</author>
	<datestamp>1256724720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I understand spending a few skill points on "Small Guns" in the future, but keep in mind that when you find the Glow your programming skills should then come in very handy.</p><p>Of course your current "First Aid" improvement is a wise choice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I understand spending a few skill points on " Small Guns " in the future , but keep in mind that when you find the Glow your programming skills should then come in very handy.Of course your current " First Aid " improvement is a wise choice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I understand spending a few skill points on "Small Guns" in the future, but keep in mind that when you find the Glow your programming skills should then come in very handy.Of course your current "First Aid" improvement is a wise choice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894361</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256723400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How did it come to this?</p></div><p>What do you mean, come to? Didn't high school teach you that jocks run the world?</p><p>Working hard and being useful just means someone else is working less hard, being less useful, and making more money.  That's life.</p><p>I blame my parents for raising me with morals.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How did it come to this ? What do you mean , come to ?
Did n't high school teach you that jocks run the world ? Working hard and being useful just means someone else is working less hard , being less useful , and making more money .
That 's life.I blame my parents for raising me with morals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How did it come to this?What do you mean, come to?
Didn't high school teach you that jocks run the world?Working hard and being useful just means someone else is working less hard, being less useful, and making more money.
That's life.I blame my parents for raising me with morals.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.30057702</id>
	<title>HFT</title>
	<author>mahadiga</author>
	<datestamp>1257069720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Have you considering making a career in <a href="http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/07/24/1253227/Stock-Market-Manipulation-By-Millisecond-Trading" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">High Frequency Trading</a> [slashdot.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you considering making a career in High Frequency Trading [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you considering making a career in High Frequency Trading [slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896871</id>
	<title>Attitude, communication and leadership</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256743020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First, before you try to leave, be sure your attitude and other emotional baggage you carry from your current employer isn't going to hamper your efforts. If you are letting the resentment, anger and hate swell and fester inside you, then it will be very noticeable in future job  interviews (whether different industry or the same).</p><p>Try the exercise in this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRMogDrHnMQ" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">Zig Ziglar video</a> [youtube.com].<br>If conditions are truly bad, it may not help those conditions, but it will help your attitude in REACTING to those conditions. It helped me put my current job in perspective as I work on developing new opportunities for myself.</p><p>Second, you need to start mingling, socializing, and communicating with people. Most IT professionals tend to be loners and back-room shadows, so you need to start developing relationships. Outside activities such as clubs and volunteer organizations are a good place to meet people who appreciate you and your time. This will also boost/help your attitude and mental state, and even help you develop a network of people when you start looking for another job. You may also find your relationships with people at your current job improve as well.</p><p>Finally, there are some skills/abilities that are in demand everywhere: communication and leadership. A Toastmasters club can help you develop speaking and leadership skills, which will server you very well when it's time to jump ship and go elsewhere. This isn't a Toastmasters commercial, but a personal recommendation.<br><a href="http://www.toastmasters.org/" title="toastmasters.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.toastmasters.org</a> [toastmasters.org]</p><p>Good luck in your quest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First , before you try to leave , be sure your attitude and other emotional baggage you carry from your current employer is n't going to hamper your efforts .
If you are letting the resentment , anger and hate swell and fester inside you , then it will be very noticeable in future job interviews ( whether different industry or the same ) .Try the exercise in this Zig Ziglar video [ youtube.com ] .If conditions are truly bad , it may not help those conditions , but it will help your attitude in REACTING to those conditions .
It helped me put my current job in perspective as I work on developing new opportunities for myself.Second , you need to start mingling , socializing , and communicating with people .
Most IT professionals tend to be loners and back-room shadows , so you need to start developing relationships .
Outside activities such as clubs and volunteer organizations are a good place to meet people who appreciate you and your time .
This will also boost/help your attitude and mental state , and even help you develop a network of people when you start looking for another job .
You may also find your relationships with people at your current job improve as well.Finally , there are some skills/abilities that are in demand everywhere : communication and leadership .
A Toastmasters club can help you develop speaking and leadership skills , which will server you very well when it 's time to jump ship and go elsewhere .
This is n't a Toastmasters commercial , but a personal recommendation.http : //www.toastmasters.org [ toastmasters.org ] Good luck in your quest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, before you try to leave, be sure your attitude and other emotional baggage you carry from your current employer isn't going to hamper your efforts.
If you are letting the resentment, anger and hate swell and fester inside you, then it will be very noticeable in future job  interviews (whether different industry or the same).Try the exercise in this Zig Ziglar video [youtube.com].If conditions are truly bad, it may not help those conditions, but it will help your attitude in REACTING to those conditions.
It helped me put my current job in perspective as I work on developing new opportunities for myself.Second, you need to start mingling, socializing, and communicating with people.
Most IT professionals tend to be loners and back-room shadows, so you need to start developing relationships.
Outside activities such as clubs and volunteer organizations are a good place to meet people who appreciate you and your time.
This will also boost/help your attitude and mental state, and even help you develop a network of people when you start looking for another job.
You may also find your relationships with people at your current job improve as well.Finally, there are some skills/abilities that are in demand everywhere: communication and leadership.
A Toastmasters club can help you develop speaking and leadership skills, which will server you very well when it's time to jump ship and go elsewhere.
This isn't a Toastmasters commercial, but a personal recommendation.http://www.toastmasters.org [toastmasters.org]Good luck in your quest.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898671</id>
	<title>Are you Crazy?!?!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256750460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Keep your job. In fact, Get up early and do something extra for your employer. Stay late and do something even extra-er for them. Give until it hurts and then give even more. We are in a Flippin Nasty recession. We came to teh brink of depression last fall and are still coming to grips with the fallout.</p><p>here are the steps:<br>1. Thank (God, Buddha, Unlimited Consciousness or Darwin) for the fact that you have a freakin job. Many people do not right now.<br>2. Make sure you *keep* said job.<br>3. Drastically reduce your consumption and save every cent you can.<br>4. Simultaneously, decide who you are, DEFINE what your purpose in life is, Decise what to do and become the best in the *Gosh-darn* world at it.<br>5. send me a royalty check for settin ya straight.</p><p>If you feel sad that you don't like your job so much, take a trip to Detroit and do some sightseeing, you will come back psychologically re-adjusted and will find that your job, while a pain in the arse, is the best asset you have right now.</p><p>cheers!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Keep your job .
In fact , Get up early and do something extra for your employer .
Stay late and do something even extra-er for them .
Give until it hurts and then give even more .
We are in a Flippin Nasty recession .
We came to teh brink of depression last fall and are still coming to grips with the fallout.here are the steps : 1 .
Thank ( God , Buddha , Unlimited Consciousness or Darwin ) for the fact that you have a freakin job .
Many people do not right now.2 .
Make sure you * keep * said job.3 .
Drastically reduce your consumption and save every cent you can.4 .
Simultaneously , decide who you are , DEFINE what your purpose in life is , Decise what to do and become the best in the * Gosh-darn * world at it.5 .
send me a royalty check for settin ya straight.If you feel sad that you do n't like your job so much , take a trip to Detroit and do some sightseeing , you will come back psychologically re-adjusted and will find that your job , while a pain in the arse , is the best asset you have right now.cheers !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keep your job.
In fact, Get up early and do something extra for your employer.
Stay late and do something even extra-er for them.
Give until it hurts and then give even more.
We are in a Flippin Nasty recession.
We came to teh brink of depression last fall and are still coming to grips with the fallout.here are the steps:1.
Thank (God, Buddha, Unlimited Consciousness or Darwin) for the fact that you have a freakin job.
Many people do not right now.2.
Make sure you *keep* said job.3.
Drastically reduce your consumption and save every cent you can.4.
Simultaneously, decide who you are, DEFINE what your purpose in life is, Decise what to do and become the best in the *Gosh-darn* world at it.5.
send me a royalty check for settin ya straight.If you feel sad that you don't like your job so much, take a trip to Detroit and do some sightseeing, you will come back psychologically re-adjusted and will find that your job, while a pain in the arse, is the best asset you have right now.cheers!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902513</id>
	<title>Re:A Change is as Good as a Rest</title>
	<author>grcumb</author>
	<datestamp>1256723880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What is the name of the organization you work for ?</p></div><p>I currently work for the University of the South Pacific (no link, slashdot would kill it).</p><p>Most of the ICT4D stuff I did was through VSO (Voluntary Service Overseas). They tend to prefer people with solid industry experience and who have some exposure to cultures other than their own. They recruit throughout Europe, North America and in Kenya, Uganda, India and the Phillippines. In Canada, they recently amalgamated with CUSO. They work in dozens of countries the world over.</p><p>There are a ton of organisations seeking talented professionals to do this kind of work. It takes a little time to find the right combination, and some volunteering work is almost always required before you can start contracting your services professionally.</p><p>A few good places to start looking:</p><ul>
<li> <strong> <a href="http://www.google.vu/url?q=http://www.grameenfoundation.org/get\_involved/career\_opportunities/&amp;ei=b63oSoLuFYGO6AP4wMX0BQ&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=smap&amp;resnum=1&amp;ct=result&amp;cd=1&amp;ved=0CAoQqwMoAA&amp;usg=AFQjCNFnv0R54azqypPYUxmR6bEGd-XcKg" title="google.vu">The Grameen Foundation</a> [google.vu] </strong> - Founded by Nobel Laureate Mohammed Yunus, this micro-finance group does fascinating IT-based work throughout the developing world. Very high standards.</li><li> <strong> <a href="http://www.vso.org.uk/" title="vso.org.uk">VSO</a> [vso.org.uk] </strong> - One of the best volunteering organisations, in my opinion. They require strong professional skills and experience, and typically provide good in-country support (YMMV from country to country).</li><li> <strong> <a href="http://www.geekcorps.org/" title="geekcorps.org">GeekCorps</a> [geekcorps.org] </strong> - Founded by Dot Com millionaire Ethan Zuckerman, this group is focused on answering the question of what comes <em>after</em> we've established the basics (e.g. roads, power and water). Interesting work and interesting people.</li></ul><p>You give up a lot to do this kind of work, and you need to remember that it's never about you - it's about the people you're working with. But once you stop worrying about career and how to pay for your next Xbox, you'll find the rewards are tremendous.</p><p>For my part, just seeing the look in people's eyes when I show them what the Internet can do is enough. Watching them take your work in directions you could never have foreseen is enlightening and humbling. I wouldn't trade this life for the world.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What is the name of the organization you work for ? I currently work for the University of the South Pacific ( no link , slashdot would kill it ) .Most of the ICT4D stuff I did was through VSO ( Voluntary Service Overseas ) .
They tend to prefer people with solid industry experience and who have some exposure to cultures other than their own .
They recruit throughout Europe , North America and in Kenya , Uganda , India and the Phillippines .
In Canada , they recently amalgamated with CUSO .
They work in dozens of countries the world over.There are a ton of organisations seeking talented professionals to do this kind of work .
It takes a little time to find the right combination , and some volunteering work is almost always required before you can start contracting your services professionally.A few good places to start looking : The Grameen Foundation [ google.vu ] - Founded by Nobel Laureate Mohammed Yunus , this micro-finance group does fascinating IT-based work throughout the developing world .
Very high standards .
VSO [ vso.org.uk ] - One of the best volunteering organisations , in my opinion .
They require strong professional skills and experience , and typically provide good in-country support ( YMMV from country to country ) .
GeekCorps [ geekcorps.org ] - Founded by Dot Com millionaire Ethan Zuckerman , this group is focused on answering the question of what comes after we 've established the basics ( e.g .
roads , power and water ) .
Interesting work and interesting people.You give up a lot to do this kind of work , and you need to remember that it 's never about you - it 's about the people you 're working with .
But once you stop worrying about career and how to pay for your next Xbox , you 'll find the rewards are tremendous.For my part , just seeing the look in people 's eyes when I show them what the Internet can do is enough .
Watching them take your work in directions you could never have foreseen is enlightening and humbling .
I would n't trade this life for the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is the name of the organization you work for ?I currently work for the University of the South Pacific (no link, slashdot would kill it).Most of the ICT4D stuff I did was through VSO (Voluntary Service Overseas).
They tend to prefer people with solid industry experience and who have some exposure to cultures other than their own.
They recruit throughout Europe, North America and in Kenya, Uganda, India and the Phillippines.
In Canada, they recently amalgamated with CUSO.
They work in dozens of countries the world over.There are a ton of organisations seeking talented professionals to do this kind of work.
It takes a little time to find the right combination, and some volunteering work is almost always required before you can start contracting your services professionally.A few good places to start looking:
  The Grameen Foundation [google.vu]  - Founded by Nobel Laureate Mohammed Yunus, this micro-finance group does fascinating IT-based work throughout the developing world.
Very high standards.
VSO [vso.org.uk]  - One of the best volunteering organisations, in my opinion.
They require strong professional skills and experience, and typically provide good in-country support (YMMV from country to country).
GeekCorps [geekcorps.org]  - Founded by Dot Com millionaire Ethan Zuckerman, this group is focused on answering the question of what comes after we've established the basics (e.g.
roads, power and water).
Interesting work and interesting people.You give up a lot to do this kind of work, and you need to remember that it's never about you - it's about the people you're working with.
But once you stop worrying about career and how to pay for your next Xbox, you'll find the rewards are tremendous.For my part, just seeing the look in people's eyes when I show them what the Internet can do is enough.
Watching them take your work in directions you could never have foreseen is enlightening and humbling.
I wouldn't trade this life for the world.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895379</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894667</id>
	<title>MBA?</title>
	<author>olesk</author>
	<datestamp>1256728440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having spent a little under a decade in IT consulting (AIX/Solaris/Linux) I also ended up wanting to change. Not so much because I was fed up with doing what I was doing (I also felt I made ok money), but because I wanted to try something new. I also wanted to have a career with a higher income potential and more options of taking on quite different roles in the future. I'm a little surprised only two comments suggest what I did: get an MBA!</p><p>There are typically two points in your life when employers are less obsessed with only giving you a job that directly fits your background: when you've just graduated from university (where, at least at my university, only about one third accept jobs directly related to their field of study) and upon completing an MBA (where you apply for "MBA positions", many of which do not require any particular background). I really believe the MBA is the hands down best way of performing a radical career change *without* sacrificing salary of career progress - quite on the contrary: on average it will boost both quite nicely. It is also a very intersting study, covering fields I'd always been curious about and it's a great opportunity to meet peolpe from a myriad of backgrounds. The network and friendships I gained from my MBA is really the most valuable thing in the long run (come to think of it, when you're past 30, most of us don't make that many new close friends, but during the MBA I did, which was great).</p><p>Trying to get into a ranked MBA, which I really recommend to get some bang for your bucks, might seem quite dauting at first, but in truth it is easier than one might think. There are tons of things you can do to boost your chances to a point where you will be very likely to succeed - most of which Google can dig up for you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having spent a little under a decade in IT consulting ( AIX/Solaris/Linux ) I also ended up wanting to change .
Not so much because I was fed up with doing what I was doing ( I also felt I made ok money ) , but because I wanted to try something new .
I also wanted to have a career with a higher income potential and more options of taking on quite different roles in the future .
I 'm a little surprised only two comments suggest what I did : get an MBA ! There are typically two points in your life when employers are less obsessed with only giving you a job that directly fits your background : when you 've just graduated from university ( where , at least at my university , only about one third accept jobs directly related to their field of study ) and upon completing an MBA ( where you apply for " MBA positions " , many of which do not require any particular background ) .
I really believe the MBA is the hands down best way of performing a radical career change * without * sacrificing salary of career progress - quite on the contrary : on average it will boost both quite nicely .
It is also a very intersting study , covering fields I 'd always been curious about and it 's a great opportunity to meet peolpe from a myriad of backgrounds .
The network and friendships I gained from my MBA is really the most valuable thing in the long run ( come to think of it , when you 're past 30 , most of us do n't make that many new close friends , but during the MBA I did , which was great ) .Trying to get into a ranked MBA , which I really recommend to get some bang for your bucks , might seem quite dauting at first , but in truth it is easier than one might think .
There are tons of things you can do to boost your chances to a point where you will be very likely to succeed - most of which Google can dig up for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having spent a little under a decade in IT consulting (AIX/Solaris/Linux) I also ended up wanting to change.
Not so much because I was fed up with doing what I was doing (I also felt I made ok money), but because I wanted to try something new.
I also wanted to have a career with a higher income potential and more options of taking on quite different roles in the future.
I'm a little surprised only two comments suggest what I did: get an MBA!There are typically two points in your life when employers are less obsessed with only giving you a job that directly fits your background: when you've just graduated from university (where, at least at my university, only about one third accept jobs directly related to their field of study) and upon completing an MBA (where you apply for "MBA positions", many of which do not require any particular background).
I really believe the MBA is the hands down best way of performing a radical career change *without* sacrificing salary of career progress - quite on the contrary: on average it will boost both quite nicely.
It is also a very intersting study, covering fields I'd always been curious about and it's a great opportunity to meet peolpe from a myriad of backgrounds.
The network and friendships I gained from my MBA is really the most valuable thing in the long run (come to think of it, when you're past 30, most of us don't make that many new close friends, but during the MBA I did, which was great).Trying to get into a ranked MBA, which I really recommend to get some bang for your bucks, might seem quite dauting at first, but in truth it is easier than one might think.
There are tons of things you can do to boost your chances to a point where you will be very likely to succeed - most of which Google can dig up for you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895267</id>
	<title>The elephant in the room</title>
	<author>Krakadoom</author>
	<datestamp>1256734140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One of the key points, that is completely ignored in the OP, is do you have any other marketable skills ?? That has a core impact on any of the derived questions you are asking anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the key points , that is completely ignored in the OP , is do you have any other marketable skills ? ?
That has a core impact on any of the derived questions you are asking anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the key points, that is completely ignored in the OP, is do you have any other marketable skills ??
That has a core impact on any of the derived questions you are asking anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898985</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256751780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>
<p>I wouldn't say Atlas Shrugged was all about getting the respect and recompensation that you deserve...it is more about doing what you want on your terms.  Most of the IT guys who really really love the field have low standards for their terms.  "Let me screw with computer crap, pay me some money" is about the extent of it.  As long as screwing with computer crap is allowed to continue and the paycheck keeps coming, they don't feel a need to complain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't say Atlas Shrugged was all about getting the respect and recompensation that you deserve...it is more about doing what you want on your terms .
Most of the IT guys who really really love the field have low standards for their terms .
" Let me screw with computer crap , pay me some money " is about the extent of it .
As long as screwing with computer crap is allowed to continue and the paycheck keeps coming , they do n't feel a need to complain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I wouldn't say Atlas Shrugged was all about getting the respect and recompensation that you deserve...it is more about doing what you want on your terms.
Most of the IT guys who really really love the field have low standards for their terms.
"Let me screw with computer crap, pay me some money" is about the extent of it.
As long as screwing with computer crap is allowed to continue and the paycheck keeps coming, they don't feel a need to complain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894929</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29946922</id>
	<title>IT to blue collar</title>
	<author>Schrambo</author>
	<datestamp>1257092640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>up untill about 2 years ago I was heavily pushing my career into IT, thinking that it was all I wanted to do. starting off as just PC repairs, Help Desk and stepping up to an Administration role I soon realised that it wasn't really for me. I always had the passion for IT and still do but did not enjoy the stress and pressures the job and further training always added. Not to mention having to do particular things that I did not enjoy particuarly how I only ever wanted to do was *nix based work but unfortunately it was very difficult to find positions that suited me.

Since then I have swapped to a more blue collar / white collar job working for RFD Australia where I work alot with my hands doing much more physical work. Feeling much happier and more of a sence of accomplishment at the end of the day I am actually now making slightly more money now in a traineeship role than I was in my last IT job.</htmltext>
<tokenext>up untill about 2 years ago I was heavily pushing my career into IT , thinking that it was all I wanted to do .
starting off as just PC repairs , Help Desk and stepping up to an Administration role I soon realised that it was n't really for me .
I always had the passion for IT and still do but did not enjoy the stress and pressures the job and further training always added .
Not to mention having to do particular things that I did not enjoy particuarly how I only ever wanted to do was * nix based work but unfortunately it was very difficult to find positions that suited me .
Since then I have swapped to a more blue collar / white collar job working for RFD Australia where I work alot with my hands doing much more physical work .
Feeling much happier and more of a sence of accomplishment at the end of the day I am actually now making slightly more money now in a traineeship role than I was in my last IT job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>up untill about 2 years ago I was heavily pushing my career into IT, thinking that it was all I wanted to do.
starting off as just PC repairs, Help Desk and stepping up to an Administration role I soon realised that it wasn't really for me.
I always had the passion for IT and still do but did not enjoy the stress and pressures the job and further training always added.
Not to mention having to do particular things that I did not enjoy particuarly how I only ever wanted to do was *nix based work but unfortunately it was very difficult to find positions that suited me.
Since then I have swapped to a more blue collar / white collar job working for RFD Australia where I work alot with my hands doing much more physical work.
Feeling much happier and more of a sence of accomplishment at the end of the day I am actually now making slightly more money now in a traineeship role than I was in my last IT job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894755</id>
	<title>Work on your own start-up</title>
	<author>WindBourne</author>
	<datestamp>1256729280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It does not matter what in, but make it something that YOU enjoy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It does not matter what in , but make it something that YOU enjoy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It does not matter what in, but make it something that YOU enjoy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29904307</id>
	<title>I did. And I'm happy.</title>
	<author>Reeses</author>
	<datestamp>1256733840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I gave up an 12 year-old career in IT (check my uid. It's proof). It eventually got to the point where I could see my future, and the future of the industry, and I wasn't that enthused with what I saw. So, I jumped.</p><p>Quit my job, enrolled in grad school, and am completely changing careers. I'm finding it's pretty easy to leverage my IT knowledge in another field because I'm able to easily assess what is and isn't possible. There are a lot of industries out there that drank the IT Kool-Aid pretty late in the game, and a number of people who have no idea what it's capable of. Given the current market, anyone who can see through the fog of IT and can suggest actual solutions that make or save money (or both, ideally) can generally make a good go of it.</p><p>So, will I miss no longer being in IT, no. Will I always think in IT terms? Probably. I now just apply it in more creative terms.</p><p>I don't even miss the money, because I don't think the work/life trade-off was worth whatever supposedly "inflated" salary I had.</p><p>I'd be willing to go into more detail, but I don't know what would come of it. I know I'm happier so far.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I gave up an 12 year-old career in IT ( check my uid .
It 's proof ) .
It eventually got to the point where I could see my future , and the future of the industry , and I was n't that enthused with what I saw .
So , I jumped.Quit my job , enrolled in grad school , and am completely changing careers .
I 'm finding it 's pretty easy to leverage my IT knowledge in another field because I 'm able to easily assess what is and is n't possible .
There are a lot of industries out there that drank the IT Kool-Aid pretty late in the game , and a number of people who have no idea what it 's capable of .
Given the current market , anyone who can see through the fog of IT and can suggest actual solutions that make or save money ( or both , ideally ) can generally make a good go of it.So , will I miss no longer being in IT , no .
Will I always think in IT terms ?
Probably. I now just apply it in more creative terms.I do n't even miss the money , because I do n't think the work/life trade-off was worth whatever supposedly " inflated " salary I had.I 'd be willing to go into more detail , but I do n't know what would come of it .
I know I 'm happier so far .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I gave up an 12 year-old career in IT (check my uid.
It's proof).
It eventually got to the point where I could see my future, and the future of the industry, and I wasn't that enthused with what I saw.
So, I jumped.Quit my job, enrolled in grad school, and am completely changing careers.
I'm finding it's pretty easy to leverage my IT knowledge in another field because I'm able to easily assess what is and isn't possible.
There are a lot of industries out there that drank the IT Kool-Aid pretty late in the game, and a number of people who have no idea what it's capable of.
Given the current market, anyone who can see through the fog of IT and can suggest actual solutions that make or save money (or both, ideally) can generally make a good go of it.So, will I miss no longer being in IT, no.
Will I always think in IT terms?
Probably. I now just apply it in more creative terms.I don't even miss the money, because I don't think the work/life trade-off was worth whatever supposedly "inflated" salary I had.I'd be willing to go into more detail, but I don't know what would come of it.
I know I'm happier so far.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256727180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out."</p><p>As someone who has worked public sector, was a union member, and even striked with the union I can say that this is not entirely the case, unions are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.</p><p>Unions are okay if their power is kept small, but in the UK they go out of control- Unison, one of the UK's biggest unions claims over 2 million members, and despite the fact half the working population are taking paycuts right now, Unison is still pushing for pay rises, even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid &pound;29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around &pound;16k to &pound;18k. Governments are powerless to say no though, because they simply can't deal with the damage caused by a union that can put a good portion of it's 2 million members on strike. The story is the same with teachers whereby you have teachers strikes because secondary school teachers are underpaid whilst the same union covers primary school teachers who hence get the same rises and who are hence now heavily overpaid for their job, but what can the government do? risk having an entire generation of kids education disrupted setting them back for life?</p><p>Similarly, unions have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that. This makes it impossible to get rid of dead weight, because you can't afford the associated costs with doing so - it's cheaper to keep those useless people in the job, providing a shit service than it is to get rid of them.</p><p>We also have them acting as a strongly political tool, they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for, in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a union, particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views.</p><p>I agree a country entirely without unions really would kind of suck for workers, but on the same note, as someone who lives in a country with unions that are simply far too powerful, and as someone who now, looking back wishes they had not given any support whatsoever to such unions I disagree that you want unions to become more popular or more powerful. They can bring countries to a standstill even when their argument has no merit- you only have to look at the current UK postal strikes for evidence of that and note also that the Royal Mail is having to pay &pound;20m a year to provide premises and time off work for it's staff to perform union activities. That's a hell of a burden on a company when the only result is for the company to get screwed over for that &pound;20m it has had to spend. It's hard to tell what the Royal Mail strikes are even about as the official line seems to be changing daily from the union involved- originally they admitted job cuts were needed and that that was not the issue but now they are saying it is about jobs. The Royal Mail has lost a &pound;25m Amazon contract because of this, you simply can't have a union holding a company to ransom like that at the expense of the company, particularly when the union doesn't even seem to be able to remain consistent in what it's actual demands are!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out .
" As someone who has worked public sector , was a union member , and even striked with the union I can say that this is not entirely the case , unions are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.Unions are okay if their power is kept small , but in the UK they go out of control- Unison , one of the UK 's biggest unions claims over 2 million members , and despite the fact half the working population are taking paycuts right now , Unison is still pushing for pay rises , even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid   29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around   16k to   18k .
Governments are powerless to say no though , because they simply ca n't deal with the damage caused by a union that can put a good portion of it 's 2 million members on strike .
The story is the same with teachers whereby you have teachers strikes because secondary school teachers are underpaid whilst the same union covers primary school teachers who hence get the same rises and who are hence now heavily overpaid for their job , but what can the government do ?
risk having an entire generation of kids education disrupted setting them back for life ? Similarly , unions have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that .
This makes it impossible to get rid of dead weight , because you ca n't afford the associated costs with doing so - it 's cheaper to keep those useless people in the job , providing a shit service than it is to get rid of them.We also have them acting as a strongly political tool , they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for , in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a union , particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views.I agree a country entirely without unions really would kind of suck for workers , but on the same note , as someone who lives in a country with unions that are simply far too powerful , and as someone who now , looking back wishes they had not given any support whatsoever to such unions I disagree that you want unions to become more popular or more powerful .
They can bring countries to a standstill even when their argument has no merit- you only have to look at the current UK postal strikes for evidence of that and note also that the Royal Mail is having to pay   20m a year to provide premises and time off work for it 's staff to perform union activities .
That 's a hell of a burden on a company when the only result is for the company to get screwed over for that   20m it has had to spend .
It 's hard to tell what the Royal Mail strikes are even about as the official line seems to be changing daily from the union involved- originally they admitted job cuts were needed and that that was not the issue but now they are saying it is about jobs .
The Royal Mail has lost a   25m Amazon contract because of this , you simply ca n't have a union holding a company to ransom like that at the expense of the company , particularly when the union does n't even seem to be able to remain consistent in what it 's actual demands are !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.
"As someone who has worked public sector, was a union member, and even striked with the union I can say that this is not entirely the case, unions are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.Unions are okay if their power is kept small, but in the UK they go out of control- Unison, one of the UK's biggest unions claims over 2 million members, and despite the fact half the working population are taking paycuts right now, Unison is still pushing for pay rises, even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid £29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around £16k to £18k.
Governments are powerless to say no though, because they simply can't deal with the damage caused by a union that can put a good portion of it's 2 million members on strike.
The story is the same with teachers whereby you have teachers strikes because secondary school teachers are underpaid whilst the same union covers primary school teachers who hence get the same rises and who are hence now heavily overpaid for their job, but what can the government do?
risk having an entire generation of kids education disrupted setting them back for life?Similarly, unions have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that.
This makes it impossible to get rid of dead weight, because you can't afford the associated costs with doing so - it's cheaper to keep those useless people in the job, providing a shit service than it is to get rid of them.We also have them acting as a strongly political tool, they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for, in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a union, particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views.I agree a country entirely without unions really would kind of suck for workers, but on the same note, as someone who lives in a country with unions that are simply far too powerful, and as someone who now, looking back wishes they had not given any support whatsoever to such unions I disagree that you want unions to become more popular or more powerful.
They can bring countries to a standstill even when their argument has no merit- you only have to look at the current UK postal strikes for evidence of that and note also that the Royal Mail is having to pay £20m a year to provide premises and time off work for it's staff to perform union activities.
That's a hell of a burden on a company when the only result is for the company to get screwed over for that £20m it has had to spend.
It's hard to tell what the Royal Mail strikes are even about as the official line seems to be changing daily from the union involved- originally they admitted job cuts were needed and that that was not the issue but now they are saying it is about jobs.
The Royal Mail has lost a £25m Amazon contract because of this, you simply can't have a union holding a company to ransom like that at the expense of the company, particularly when the union doesn't even seem to be able to remain consistent in what it's actual demands are!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895557</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256736600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>sound like working in IT to me!</p><p>=)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>sound like working in IT to me ! = )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sound like working in IT to me!=)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895225</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>apmonte</author>
	<datestamp>1256733900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>you might want to think about nursing.</p></div></blockquote><p>You've obviously never been treated by a nurse who was in the job for the wrong reasons.  Please don't ever SUGGEST nursing to people, unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others even on their worst days.</p></div><p>I'd also suggest that you get out of IT unless you have a genuine passion for helping a company make the most of it's IT resources. And by that, I mean helping to make its user community make the most of its IT resources. (The user community IS the company) To many admins could care less about the end users (My brother calls them DFU's) and lock computers down to the point that it's very had to do our jobs. (And we hate you for it) When my IT department makes it harder to do my job, (blame it on company policy if it makes you feel better)  I'm less inclined to do my job. Provide us with the tools (both hardware and software) to do our jobs more effectively and listen to feedback from the user community. Otherwise, please get out of the field.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>you might want to think about nursing.You 've obviously never been treated by a nurse who was in the job for the wrong reasons .
Please do n't ever SUGGEST nursing to people , unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion , patience , and willingness to help others even on their worst days.I 'd also suggest that you get out of IT unless you have a genuine passion for helping a company make the most of it 's IT resources .
And by that , I mean helping to make its user community make the most of its IT resources .
( The user community IS the company ) To many admins could care less about the end users ( My brother calls them DFU 's ) and lock computers down to the point that it 's very had to do our jobs .
( And we hate you for it ) When my IT department makes it harder to do my job , ( blame it on company policy if it makes you feel better ) I 'm less inclined to do my job .
Provide us with the tools ( both hardware and software ) to do our jobs more effectively and listen to feedback from the user community .
Otherwise , please get out of the field .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you might want to think about nursing.You've obviously never been treated by a nurse who was in the job for the wrong reasons.
Please don't ever SUGGEST nursing to people, unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others even on their worst days.I'd also suggest that you get out of IT unless you have a genuine passion for helping a company make the most of it's IT resources.
And by that, I mean helping to make its user community make the most of its IT resources.
(The user community IS the company) To many admins could care less about the end users (My brother calls them DFU's) and lock computers down to the point that it's very had to do our jobs.
(And we hate you for it) When my IT department makes it harder to do my job, (blame it on company policy if it makes you feel better)  I'm less inclined to do my job.
Provide us with the tools (both hardware and software) to do our jobs more effectively and listen to feedback from the user community.
Otherwise, please get out of the field.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895299</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>DoofusOfDeath</author>
	<datestamp>1256734380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.</p></div></blockquote><p>We can't off-shore longshoremen.  If they successfully negotiate high salaries, the ports have to just live with that.</p><p>If call center workers in the U.S. unionize and get higher wages...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.We ca n't off-shore longshoremen .
If they successfully negotiate high salaries , the ports have to just live with that.If call center workers in the U.S. unionize and get higher wages.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.We can't off-shore longshoremen.
If they successfully negotiate high salaries, the ports have to just live with that.If call center workers in the U.S. unionize and get higher wages...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898521</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Alpha830RulZ</author>
	<datestamp>1256749620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> A huge percentage of the population today is stuck in jobs they do not like.</p> </div><p>One thing to realize about this is what Marx wrote about 150 years ago about alienation of labor.  He said, and I think it's true, that to work for anyone else inherently renders that work less satisfying.  This means that the essential nature of -any- economy is that production is less satisfying than we would like.  This is true whether it's a capitalist, socialist, or communist society.  To work for The Man sucks, and always will.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A huge percentage of the population today is stuck in jobs they do not like .
One thing to realize about this is what Marx wrote about 150 years ago about alienation of labor .
He said , and I think it 's true , that to work for anyone else inherently renders that work less satisfying .
This means that the essential nature of -any- economy is that production is less satisfying than we would like .
This is true whether it 's a capitalist , socialist , or communist society .
To work for The Man sucks , and always will .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> A huge percentage of the population today is stuck in jobs they do not like.
One thing to realize about this is what Marx wrote about 150 years ago about alienation of labor.
He said, and I think it's true, that to work for anyone else inherently renders that work less satisfying.
This means that the essential nature of -any- economy is that production is less satisfying than we would like.
This is true whether it's a capitalist, socialist, or communist society.
To work for The Man sucks, and always will.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893931</id>
	<title>I jumped ship about six years ago..</title>
	<author>lz2pt</author>
	<datestamp>1256760480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Long, tedious and boring story cut short, one day I woke up and decided that I no longer enjoyed working in the IT sector.<br>(after about 20 years of putting up with the various levels of brain death involved in supporting both the machines and their (ab)users..), so jumped.</p><p>I'd gotten so sick of the whole game that after I quit my last full time IT job, swore I'd never do it again, and it was almost a year before I touched a computer of any sorts again, and about two before I went back online.</p><p>First couple of years readjusting to the (major) cut in salary were pretty nasty, saving grace was that I owned my house outright and had no outstanding debts, even so , financially were tight at times but things have sort of stabilised. Currently working for a charity as a sort of &#220;ber-handyman (plumbing,painting,electronics and hardware repair, NC machine programming etc etc - the etc etc including IT work...but for reasons explained below),</p><p>To make ends meet,  I've  been doing things like plumbing, woodwork (joinery mostly), painting and decorating etc, it sort of helped that I'd a family who were involved in these trades so I'd grown up knowing how to do most of it., and honestly, I've been as happy as a member of the genus sus in coprophilous materia..</p><p>A cautionary note though, once it is known that you actually know anything about IT in whatever field you jump to, be prepared for what usually happens next. I'm slowly getting dragged back into IT in my current job at the charity, mostly through the electronics related work I'm doing for them (my 'field' before I jumped to the computer/network admin side of things), but also through what I'm seeing as seriously screwed up Network/computer installations within the charity I work for (and others) which they're paying people good money to 'administer' on their behalf.</p><p>Even though you swear blind at the start that you'll never do any IT work again, it *will* find you..in my case, I don't mind as it's for a reasonable cause (and I really hate seeing people who've got Noddy MCxxxx and CCxxx bits of paper pretending to know what they're doing and taking the piss in this manner, especially with a charity).</p><p>So, be prepared for a drop in living standards based on monies etc, I can't tell you if you'll be any happier.  I am, I actually sleep more than a couple of hours a night now (after years of 18-20 hour days, six days a week) and I no longer see reams of 'C' code in my bloody dreams (and I praise the flying spaghetti monster for that, as I do so hate 'C' ) but that's just me, YMMV.</p><p>One bit of advice that I can give you from my experiences jumping ship. I can't stress this enough, if you do go through with it, *plan* your exit, know what else you *can* do, and see if you could survive/make a living doing whatever you choose. Plan your exit, don't just jump ship the way I did before you have something else sorted out to go to first.. This lack of forward planning was my only mistake/regret, understandable at the time, as I was seriously pissed off and wasn't quite thinking straight, but this lack of planning probably caused me the most grief the first couple of years.</p><p>Like at least one other poster has said, in general it'll help if you have a degree of some sort as well.</p><p>and finally if you do jump, then good luck, and hope it works out for you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Long , tedious and boring story cut short , one day I woke up and decided that I no longer enjoyed working in the IT sector .
( after about 20 years of putting up with the various levels of brain death involved in supporting both the machines and their ( ab ) users.. ) , so jumped.I 'd gotten so sick of the whole game that after I quit my last full time IT job , swore I 'd never do it again , and it was almost a year before I touched a computer of any sorts again , and about two before I went back online.First couple of years readjusting to the ( major ) cut in salary were pretty nasty , saving grace was that I owned my house outright and had no outstanding debts , even so , financially were tight at times but things have sort of stabilised .
Currently working for a charity as a sort of   ber-handyman ( plumbing,painting,electronics and hardware repair , NC machine programming etc etc - the etc etc including IT work...but for reasons explained below ) ,To make ends meet , I 've been doing things like plumbing , woodwork ( joinery mostly ) , painting and decorating etc , it sort of helped that I 'd a family who were involved in these trades so I 'd grown up knowing how to do most of it. , and honestly , I 've been as happy as a member of the genus sus in coprophilous materia..A cautionary note though , once it is known that you actually know anything about IT in whatever field you jump to , be prepared for what usually happens next .
I 'm slowly getting dragged back into IT in my current job at the charity , mostly through the electronics related work I 'm doing for them ( my 'field ' before I jumped to the computer/network admin side of things ) , but also through what I 'm seeing as seriously screwed up Network/computer installations within the charity I work for ( and others ) which they 're paying people good money to 'administer ' on their behalf.Even though you swear blind at the start that you 'll never do any IT work again , it * will * find you..in my case , I do n't mind as it 's for a reasonable cause ( and I really hate seeing people who 've got Noddy MCxxxx and CCxxx bits of paper pretending to know what they 're doing and taking the piss in this manner , especially with a charity ) .So , be prepared for a drop in living standards based on monies etc , I ca n't tell you if you 'll be any happier .
I am , I actually sleep more than a couple of hours a night now ( after years of 18-20 hour days , six days a week ) and I no longer see reams of 'C ' code in my bloody dreams ( and I praise the flying spaghetti monster for that , as I do so hate 'C ' ) but that 's just me , YMMV.One bit of advice that I can give you from my experiences jumping ship .
I ca n't stress this enough , if you do go through with it , * plan * your exit , know what else you * can * do , and see if you could survive/make a living doing whatever you choose .
Plan your exit , do n't just jump ship the way I did before you have something else sorted out to go to first.. This lack of forward planning was my only mistake/regret , understandable at the time , as I was seriously pissed off and was n't quite thinking straight , but this lack of planning probably caused me the most grief the first couple of years.Like at least one other poster has said , in general it 'll help if you have a degree of some sort as well.and finally if you do jump , then good luck , and hope it works out for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Long, tedious and boring story cut short, one day I woke up and decided that I no longer enjoyed working in the IT sector.
(after about 20 years of putting up with the various levels of brain death involved in supporting both the machines and their (ab)users..), so jumped.I'd gotten so sick of the whole game that after I quit my last full time IT job, swore I'd never do it again, and it was almost a year before I touched a computer of any sorts again, and about two before I went back online.First couple of years readjusting to the (major) cut in salary were pretty nasty, saving grace was that I owned my house outright and had no outstanding debts, even so , financially were tight at times but things have sort of stabilised.
Currently working for a charity as a sort of Über-handyman (plumbing,painting,electronics and hardware repair, NC machine programming etc etc - the etc etc including IT work...but for reasons explained below),To make ends meet,  I've  been doing things like plumbing, woodwork (joinery mostly), painting and decorating etc, it sort of helped that I'd a family who were involved in these trades so I'd grown up knowing how to do most of it., and honestly, I've been as happy as a member of the genus sus in coprophilous materia..A cautionary note though, once it is known that you actually know anything about IT in whatever field you jump to, be prepared for what usually happens next.
I'm slowly getting dragged back into IT in my current job at the charity, mostly through the electronics related work I'm doing for them (my 'field' before I jumped to the computer/network admin side of things), but also through what I'm seeing as seriously screwed up Network/computer installations within the charity I work for (and others) which they're paying people good money to 'administer' on their behalf.Even though you swear blind at the start that you'll never do any IT work again, it *will* find you..in my case, I don't mind as it's for a reasonable cause (and I really hate seeing people who've got Noddy MCxxxx and CCxxx bits of paper pretending to know what they're doing and taking the piss in this manner, especially with a charity).So, be prepared for a drop in living standards based on monies etc, I can't tell you if you'll be any happier.
I am, I actually sleep more than a couple of hours a night now (after years of 18-20 hour days, six days a week) and I no longer see reams of 'C' code in my bloody dreams (and I praise the flying spaghetti monster for that, as I do so hate 'C' ) but that's just me, YMMV.One bit of advice that I can give you from my experiences jumping ship.
I can't stress this enough, if you do go through with it, *plan* your exit, know what else you *can* do, and see if you could survive/make a living doing whatever you choose.
Plan your exit, don't just jump ship the way I did before you have something else sorted out to go to first.. This lack of forward planning was my only mistake/regret, understandable at the time, as I was seriously pissed off and wasn't quite thinking straight, but this lack of planning probably caused me the most grief the first couple of years.Like at least one other poster has said, in general it'll help if you have a degree of some sort as well.and finally if you do jump, then good luck, and hope it works out for you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29906167</id>
	<title>Sales Engineering</title>
	<author>Corporate T00l</author>
	<datestamp>1256746980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In HS and college, I loved participating in programming competitions. Sales engineering is the first time that I've really duplicated that kind of experience, and gotten paid big bucks for it. The work inherently involves working with people. You are introduced to a constant stream of new businesses and problems to solve. And as far as verbal appreciation goes, sales reps can totally dish that out. If you're able to hack it and your deals are closing, your deeds will be widely acclaimed. There is a downside that if you're deals aren't closing, you'll be out of a job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In HS and college , I loved participating in programming competitions .
Sales engineering is the first time that I 've really duplicated that kind of experience , and gotten paid big bucks for it .
The work inherently involves working with people .
You are introduced to a constant stream of new businesses and problems to solve .
And as far as verbal appreciation goes , sales reps can totally dish that out .
If you 're able to hack it and your deals are closing , your deeds will be widely acclaimed .
There is a downside that if you 're deals are n't closing , you 'll be out of a job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In HS and college, I loved participating in programming competitions.
Sales engineering is the first time that I've really duplicated that kind of experience, and gotten paid big bucks for it.
The work inherently involves working with people.
You are introduced to a constant stream of new businesses and problems to solve.
And as far as verbal appreciation goes, sales reps can totally dish that out.
If you're able to hack it and your deals are closing, your deeds will be widely acclaimed.
There is a downside that if you're deals aren't closing, you'll be out of a job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894823</id>
	<title>Re:Out of the frying pan, and into the fire</title>
	<author>jprupp</author>
	<datestamp>1256730120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"That said, I got into IT by accident, and I didn't like it that much."</p><p>...but you're still reading Slashdot, so I don't buy it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" That said , I got into IT by accident , and I did n't like it that much .
" ...but you 're still reading Slashdot , so I do n't buy it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"That said, I got into IT by accident, and I didn't like it that much.
"...but you're still reading Slashdot, so I don't buy it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893591</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895281</id>
	<title>Isn't work the same for 90\% of us?</title>
	<author>z0mb13e</author>
	<datestamp>1256734200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have always assumed that at least 90\% of the working population hated their jobs and that those of us working in IT are in the main more analytical and apply that to ourselves more and thus are less content than others who coast through life without thinking about their situation.

Yes the shine has well and truly gone off IT. At least for now. Things may improve after the recession, but unless you have an idea of what you want to do or where you want to go, you are like me, in limbo.

My career path started in electronics which I figured was a dying art so I went to uni to get a degree in computers/web/multimedia, then to multimedia developer to web developer to sys admin to project manager/pre sales (this last lot all within one company and often at the same time - including the assumption that I was at the end of a phone 24/7/365 regardless of where in the world I was) this was where I had enough and bailed. Only to find there weren't any IT jobs unless you were a kid with fresh IT certs. Worked as a handy man with a massive massive reduction in income (from &pound;30k a year to just about paying all the bills each month) - that hurt but felt strangely right - doing enough to get by seemed a bit more real. To after a year having to take the first IT related job I was offered. It isn't exactly fun, pays &pound;10k a year less, the management aren't exactly employee friendly, no benefits at all, plus the usual expectation that I am at the end of a phone 24/7/365.

I really don't know what else to do. I have lots of other interests (snowboarding, restoring old cars, photography, music) and skills (electrics, plumbing, woodwork, plastering etc) but none of them I could (for various reasons) or would want to make into a career.

I am good at keeping computers running and I can just about keep my cool with the stupider support calls.

I guess until an opportunity presents itself I am stuck... If you can move I would say do it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have always assumed that at least 90 \ % of the working population hated their jobs and that those of us working in IT are in the main more analytical and apply that to ourselves more and thus are less content than others who coast through life without thinking about their situation .
Yes the shine has well and truly gone off IT .
At least for now .
Things may improve after the recession , but unless you have an idea of what you want to do or where you want to go , you are like me , in limbo .
My career path started in electronics which I figured was a dying art so I went to uni to get a degree in computers/web/multimedia , then to multimedia developer to web developer to sys admin to project manager/pre sales ( this last lot all within one company and often at the same time - including the assumption that I was at the end of a phone 24/7/365 regardless of where in the world I was ) this was where I had enough and bailed .
Only to find there were n't any IT jobs unless you were a kid with fresh IT certs .
Worked as a handy man with a massive massive reduction in income ( from   30k a year to just about paying all the bills each month ) - that hurt but felt strangely right - doing enough to get by seemed a bit more real .
To after a year having to take the first IT related job I was offered .
It is n't exactly fun , pays   10k a year less , the management are n't exactly employee friendly , no benefits at all , plus the usual expectation that I am at the end of a phone 24/7/365 .
I really do n't know what else to do .
I have lots of other interests ( snowboarding , restoring old cars , photography , music ) and skills ( electrics , plumbing , woodwork , plastering etc ) but none of them I could ( for various reasons ) or would want to make into a career .
I am good at keeping computers running and I can just about keep my cool with the stupider support calls .
I guess until an opportunity presents itself I am stuck... If you can move I would say do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have always assumed that at least 90\% of the working population hated their jobs and that those of us working in IT are in the main more analytical and apply that to ourselves more and thus are less content than others who coast through life without thinking about their situation.
Yes the shine has well and truly gone off IT.
At least for now.
Things may improve after the recession, but unless you have an idea of what you want to do or where you want to go, you are like me, in limbo.
My career path started in electronics which I figured was a dying art so I went to uni to get a degree in computers/web/multimedia, then to multimedia developer to web developer to sys admin to project manager/pre sales (this last lot all within one company and often at the same time - including the assumption that I was at the end of a phone 24/7/365 regardless of where in the world I was) this was where I had enough and bailed.
Only to find there weren't any IT jobs unless you were a kid with fresh IT certs.
Worked as a handy man with a massive massive reduction in income (from £30k a year to just about paying all the bills each month) - that hurt but felt strangely right - doing enough to get by seemed a bit more real.
To after a year having to take the first IT related job I was offered.
It isn't exactly fun, pays £10k a year less, the management aren't exactly employee friendly, no benefits at all, plus the usual expectation that I am at the end of a phone 24/7/365.
I really don't know what else to do.
I have lots of other interests (snowboarding, restoring old cars, photography, music) and skills (electrics, plumbing, woodwork, plastering etc) but none of them I could (for various reasons) or would want to make into a career.
I am good at keeping computers running and I can just about keep my cool with the stupider support calls.
I guess until an opportunity presents itself I am stuck... If you can move I would say do it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895681</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>shentino</author>
	<datestamp>1256737680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think the problem all around is just a plain imbalance of power.</p><p>First, the corporation was king, until they went too far and got the general public symathetic with unionizing.</p><p>Now unions are enjoying power, and some are going a bit too far in their karmic backlash.  One could say that karma is enjoying usurious interest rates.  If unions keep it up too much the public will get fed up with them just as badly.</p><p>I'd say be damned with fancy regs and just let the market sort it out.  Treat overbearing unions the same way you do monopolistic corporations.  Let monopsonies be treated the same as monopolies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the problem all around is just a plain imbalance of power.First , the corporation was king , until they went too far and got the general public symathetic with unionizing.Now unions are enjoying power , and some are going a bit too far in their karmic backlash .
One could say that karma is enjoying usurious interest rates .
If unions keep it up too much the public will get fed up with them just as badly.I 'd say be damned with fancy regs and just let the market sort it out .
Treat overbearing unions the same way you do monopolistic corporations .
Let monopsonies be treated the same as monopolies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the problem all around is just a plain imbalance of power.First, the corporation was king, until they went too far and got the general public symathetic with unionizing.Now unions are enjoying power, and some are going a bit too far in their karmic backlash.
One could say that karma is enjoying usurious interest rates.
If unions keep it up too much the public will get fed up with them just as badly.I'd say be damned with fancy regs and just let the market sort it out.
Treat overbearing unions the same way you do monopolistic corporations.
Let monopsonies be treated the same as monopolies.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900991</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256759820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Didn't high school teach you that jocks run the world?</p></div><p>Isn't that the way it goes?  One sibling gets the brains, the other gets the brawn.</p><p>Maybe this has some bearing on the whole "jocks run the world" idea...<br>http://www.newsweek.com/id/36056<br>If only the nerds could fraternize with the women's cross-country team... would we get over our fear a little quicker?</p><p>I blame my parent for locking me in my room all the time.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did n't high school teach you that jocks run the world ? Is n't that the way it goes ?
One sibling gets the brains , the other gets the brawn.Maybe this has some bearing on the whole " jocks run the world " idea...http : //www.newsweek.com/id/36056If only the nerds could fraternize with the women 's cross-country team... would we get over our fear a little quicker ? I blame my parent for locking me in my room all the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Didn't high school teach you that jocks run the world?Isn't that the way it goes?
One sibling gets the brains, the other gets the brawn.Maybe this has some bearing on the whole "jocks run the world" idea...http://www.newsweek.com/id/36056If only the nerds could fraternize with the women's cross-country team... would we get over our fear a little quicker?I blame my parent for locking me in my room all the time.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894361</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898507</id>
	<title>For Americans, IT avoidance should be a no-brainer</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1256749560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the US, IT workers typically have a life of constant turmoil. Rather than building a career, IT workers move from one throw-away job to the next. In most professional career fields (doctor, lawyer, accountant, teacher), it is normally expected that you advance and earn more as you get older, and more experienced, in IT it's often just the opposite.</p><p>Occam's razor: off-shore labor is a lot cheaper, therefore employers will off-shore every possible job. If you do your job sitting in front of a computer, then your job can probably be off-shored - if not now, then certainly in the near future.</p><p>Practically all IT jobs that are not offshored, will be filled by guest workers.</p><p>Furthermore, the simple laws of supply and demand dictate that the few jobs that are not off-shored, will have a glut of qualified applicants. The experienced developers who have their jobs off-shored, will clearly try to leverage their existing training and experience into the few remaining IT jobs that can not be easily off-shored. This causes a glut, and drives down wages.</p><p>The IT worker glut will be increased even more by improved automation of information system maintenance, standardization of software, and non-IT specialists who are increasingly sophisticated with information technology.</p><p>There can be nothing to stop this devastating trend, due to the following:</p><p>1) Corrupt USA politicians<br>2) USA IT workers are not willing to organize<br>3) Influential corporations have effectively distorted the issues</p><p>So there you go, it's as simple as that.</p><p>Take a look at this if you don't believe me:</p><p><a href="http://techtoil.org/wiki/doku.php?id=articles:news\_and\_commentary" title="techtoil.org">http://techtoil.org/wiki/doku.php?id=articles:news\_and\_commentary</a> [techtoil.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the US , IT workers typically have a life of constant turmoil .
Rather than building a career , IT workers move from one throw-away job to the next .
In most professional career fields ( doctor , lawyer , accountant , teacher ) , it is normally expected that you advance and earn more as you get older , and more experienced , in IT it 's often just the opposite.Occam 's razor : off-shore labor is a lot cheaper , therefore employers will off-shore every possible job .
If you do your job sitting in front of a computer , then your job can probably be off-shored - if not now , then certainly in the near future.Practically all IT jobs that are not offshored , will be filled by guest workers.Furthermore , the simple laws of supply and demand dictate that the few jobs that are not off-shored , will have a glut of qualified applicants .
The experienced developers who have their jobs off-shored , will clearly try to leverage their existing training and experience into the few remaining IT jobs that can not be easily off-shored .
This causes a glut , and drives down wages.The IT worker glut will be increased even more by improved automation of information system maintenance , standardization of software , and non-IT specialists who are increasingly sophisticated with information technology.There can be nothing to stop this devastating trend , due to the following : 1 ) Corrupt USA politicians2 ) USA IT workers are not willing to organize3 ) Influential corporations have effectively distorted the issuesSo there you go , it 's as simple as that.Take a look at this if you do n't believe me : http : //techtoil.org/wiki/doku.php ? id = articles : news \ _and \ _commentary [ techtoil.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the US, IT workers typically have a life of constant turmoil.
Rather than building a career, IT workers move from one throw-away job to the next.
In most professional career fields (doctor, lawyer, accountant, teacher), it is normally expected that you advance and earn more as you get older, and more experienced, in IT it's often just the opposite.Occam's razor: off-shore labor is a lot cheaper, therefore employers will off-shore every possible job.
If you do your job sitting in front of a computer, then your job can probably be off-shored - if not now, then certainly in the near future.Practically all IT jobs that are not offshored, will be filled by guest workers.Furthermore, the simple laws of supply and demand dictate that the few jobs that are not off-shored, will have a glut of qualified applicants.
The experienced developers who have their jobs off-shored, will clearly try to leverage their existing training and experience into the few remaining IT jobs that can not be easily off-shored.
This causes a glut, and drives down wages.The IT worker glut will be increased even more by improved automation of information system maintenance, standardization of software, and non-IT specialists who are increasingly sophisticated with information technology.There can be nothing to stop this devastating trend, due to the following:1) Corrupt USA politicians2) USA IT workers are not willing to organize3) Influential corporations have effectively distorted the issuesSo there you go, it's as simple as that.Take a look at this if you don't believe me:http://techtoil.org/wiki/doku.php?id=articles:news\_and\_commentary [techtoil.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893579</id>
	<title>Very timely...</title>
	<author>Jon-ZA</author>
	<datestamp>1256669460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm completely jaded with the IT industry after having spent the past 10 years installing toner cartridges and mapping network drives for people that show very little gratitude.  I tried my best to move up the corporate ladder, so to speak.  I started out at the bottom and slowly worked my way up passed junior admin, helpdesk, and into senior technical support.  Then I hit a vertical limit at one company, with no choice for further career progression.  I looked around and evaluated my skills, but everything pointed to a horizontal move.  With my desire to have a stable, decent paying job, I had inadvertently boxed myself into a position which was going to be almost impossible to get out of.  My skills were clearly tailored around supporting users, with some network admin and even lecturing experience.

Then, a miracle happened, I got laid off from that job and that's when life started.  Suddenly a thousand possibilities entered my head.  And that's where I'm at right now.  I'm taking 6 months off, I put my condo up for rent and I'm going traveling to Africa!  I'm hoping to accomplish quite a few things when I get there, re-focus my efforts and rejuvenate my enthusiasm, when I get back I want to start my own company, I'm tired of working for people.  I want to experience owning a company firsthand and seeing my efforts pay off, literally.  I'm tired of making shareholders richer and richer with each passing month.

So if you skipped all of that here's the sum up.  If you don't enjoy what you do, take some time off to figure out what it is that you want to do with yourself.  Emphasis on 'time off'.  They say that people change careers 5 times in their lives.  This change, for me, will be change number 1 and I'm looking forward to it like you cannot believe.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm completely jaded with the IT industry after having spent the past 10 years installing toner cartridges and mapping network drives for people that show very little gratitude .
I tried my best to move up the corporate ladder , so to speak .
I started out at the bottom and slowly worked my way up passed junior admin , helpdesk , and into senior technical support .
Then I hit a vertical limit at one company , with no choice for further career progression .
I looked around and evaluated my skills , but everything pointed to a horizontal move .
With my desire to have a stable , decent paying job , I had inadvertently boxed myself into a position which was going to be almost impossible to get out of .
My skills were clearly tailored around supporting users , with some network admin and even lecturing experience .
Then , a miracle happened , I got laid off from that job and that 's when life started .
Suddenly a thousand possibilities entered my head .
And that 's where I 'm at right now .
I 'm taking 6 months off , I put my condo up for rent and I 'm going traveling to Africa !
I 'm hoping to accomplish quite a few things when I get there , re-focus my efforts and rejuvenate my enthusiasm , when I get back I want to start my own company , I 'm tired of working for people .
I want to experience owning a company firsthand and seeing my efforts pay off , literally .
I 'm tired of making shareholders richer and richer with each passing month .
So if you skipped all of that here 's the sum up .
If you do n't enjoy what you do , take some time off to figure out what it is that you want to do with yourself .
Emphasis on 'time off' .
They say that people change careers 5 times in their lives .
This change , for me , will be change number 1 and I 'm looking forward to it like you can not believe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm completely jaded with the IT industry after having spent the past 10 years installing toner cartridges and mapping network drives for people that show very little gratitude.
I tried my best to move up the corporate ladder, so to speak.
I started out at the bottom and slowly worked my way up passed junior admin, helpdesk, and into senior technical support.
Then I hit a vertical limit at one company, with no choice for further career progression.
I looked around and evaluated my skills, but everything pointed to a horizontal move.
With my desire to have a stable, decent paying job, I had inadvertently boxed myself into a position which was going to be almost impossible to get out of.
My skills were clearly tailored around supporting users, with some network admin and even lecturing experience.
Then, a miracle happened, I got laid off from that job and that's when life started.
Suddenly a thousand possibilities entered my head.
And that's where I'm at right now.
I'm taking 6 months off, I put my condo up for rent and I'm going traveling to Africa!
I'm hoping to accomplish quite a few things when I get there, re-focus my efforts and rejuvenate my enthusiasm, when I get back I want to start my own company, I'm tired of working for people.
I want to experience owning a company firsthand and seeing my efforts pay off, literally.
I'm tired of making shareholders richer and richer with each passing month.
So if you skipped all of that here's the sum up.
If you don't enjoy what you do, take some time off to figure out what it is that you want to do with yourself.
Emphasis on 'time off'.
They say that people change careers 5 times in their lives.
This change, for me, will be change number 1 and I'm looking forward to it like you cannot believe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894771</id>
	<title>Re:Lose the boss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256729400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I tend to agree - people don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad managers.</p><p>I guess there's a lot of bad management in IT? Check.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tend to agree - people do n't leave bad jobs , they leave bad managers.I guess there 's a lot of bad management in IT ?
Check .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tend to agree - people don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad managers.I guess there's a lot of bad management in IT?
Check.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894081</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897129</id>
	<title>Okay, a little late to thread but...</title>
	<author>jav1231</author>
	<datestamp>1256743980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have to say I can't do anything else nor do I want to. When I "retire" I'd like to teach. Other than that, IT is a passion of mine. If I intend to work in a field that I truly enjoy, IT is it. I've been in the field either marginally or full time for nearly 20 years. It's often frustrating and yes one is often unappreciated but rewards of solving major issues and teaching up and coming SA's is a huge draw for me. I'm inclined to think that those who start wishing for another career simply aren't passionate about IT. To them they made a choice much like choosing between a banking job or a management position. IT was not a choice for me. It was in my blood and being able to work in the field is my equivalent to having a hit record.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to say I ca n't do anything else nor do I want to .
When I " retire " I 'd like to teach .
Other than that , IT is a passion of mine .
If I intend to work in a field that I truly enjoy , IT is it .
I 've been in the field either marginally or full time for nearly 20 years .
It 's often frustrating and yes one is often unappreciated but rewards of solving major issues and teaching up and coming SA 's is a huge draw for me .
I 'm inclined to think that those who start wishing for another career simply are n't passionate about IT .
To them they made a choice much like choosing between a banking job or a management position .
IT was not a choice for me .
It was in my blood and being able to work in the field is my equivalent to having a hit record .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to say I can't do anything else nor do I want to.
When I "retire" I'd like to teach.
Other than that, IT is a passion of mine.
If I intend to work in a field that I truly enjoy, IT is it.
I've been in the field either marginally or full time for nearly 20 years.
It's often frustrating and yes one is often unappreciated but rewards of solving major issues and teaching up and coming SA's is a huge draw for me.
I'm inclined to think that those who start wishing for another career simply aren't passionate about IT.
To them they made a choice much like choosing between a banking job or a management position.
IT was not a choice for me.
It was in my blood and being able to work in the field is my equivalent to having a hit record.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897881</id>
	<title>Do what fulfills you.  It's that simple.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256746980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been in the professional IT field for almost 15 years, and spent the last years working for the big guys in the Valley.  I'm frustrated, burnt out, and just tired.  At the end of the week I go home, and feel as disconnected as can be; then spend the next two days unwinding and doing stuff I love only to go back to the grind for another week on Monday.</p><p>Quit my job in Mai and walked away laughing.  Literally!  Then I spent the next almost three months traveling the South Pacific and fell in love with it all over again.  Always happens when I go there.</p><p>Alas, when I came back to the US I started in IT again, having turned down offers to stay in the South Pacific area.  Looking back now, I kick myself almost every day for not having listened to myself.  The one thing I took away from this summer is that I want to get out and change.  But it's important to not blindly throw everything away and risk what I've worked on for so long.  So now I'm looking into going back to school (because I want to), I spend more time on my hobbies which I love, and within a year or so I hope to have prepared enough that I can take the plunge.  It's a little scare, but it's even more exciting to take charge again.</p><p>Bottom line: follow your heart.  You owe nothing to your employer; your services for a paycheck, that's how I see it.  If you have the feeling that you're wasting your life, change something.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been in the professional IT field for almost 15 years , and spent the last years working for the big guys in the Valley .
I 'm frustrated , burnt out , and just tired .
At the end of the week I go home , and feel as disconnected as can be ; then spend the next two days unwinding and doing stuff I love only to go back to the grind for another week on Monday.Quit my job in Mai and walked away laughing .
Literally ! Then I spent the next almost three months traveling the South Pacific and fell in love with it all over again .
Always happens when I go there.Alas , when I came back to the US I started in IT again , having turned down offers to stay in the South Pacific area .
Looking back now , I kick myself almost every day for not having listened to myself .
The one thing I took away from this summer is that I want to get out and change .
But it 's important to not blindly throw everything away and risk what I 've worked on for so long .
So now I 'm looking into going back to school ( because I want to ) , I spend more time on my hobbies which I love , and within a year or so I hope to have prepared enough that I can take the plunge .
It 's a little scare , but it 's even more exciting to take charge again.Bottom line : follow your heart .
You owe nothing to your employer ; your services for a paycheck , that 's how I see it .
If you have the feeling that you 're wasting your life , change something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been in the professional IT field for almost 15 years, and spent the last years working for the big guys in the Valley.
I'm frustrated, burnt out, and just tired.
At the end of the week I go home, and feel as disconnected as can be; then spend the next two days unwinding and doing stuff I love only to go back to the grind for another week on Monday.Quit my job in Mai and walked away laughing.
Literally!  Then I spent the next almost three months traveling the South Pacific and fell in love with it all over again.
Always happens when I go there.Alas, when I came back to the US I started in IT again, having turned down offers to stay in the South Pacific area.
Looking back now, I kick myself almost every day for not having listened to myself.
The one thing I took away from this summer is that I want to get out and change.
But it's important to not blindly throw everything away and risk what I've worked on for so long.
So now I'm looking into going back to school (because I want to), I spend more time on my hobbies which I love, and within a year or so I hope to have prepared enough that I can take the plunge.
It's a little scare, but it's even more exciting to take charge again.Bottom line: follow your heart.
You owe nothing to your employer; your services for a paycheck, that's how I see it.
If you have the feeling that you're wasting your life, change something.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29903729</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256730300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>In some cases this is a calculated assessment.  Most days I would love to say "Here do whatever you want, go make money".  But whenever that happens we usually end up with computers that are pretty much toast, right about the time a report is due or shipping needs to be done.  My brother who is also an admin, spent a lot of his time cleaning crazy crap off of users computers because his department wouldn't spend extra money for MS Professional version.  So he was busy all the time.  Each person in IT was spending a day a week cleaning up computers for malware and spyware, until we started restricting internet usage. And I take a lot of crap for end users because of it.<br>
But you know what, in the last five years, we have not had a serious virus outbreak, computer failure, failure to get proposals done on time, missed shipments due to computer outages and we have only had 1.5 hours where manufacturing was stopped due to network failure and that was because somebody had taken the backup switch we had for a small but critical segment of our network.  If we had still had it in stock, we would have fixed it in 45 minutes, (took us 30 minutes to have someone respond in the middle of the night) and took us 45 minutes to find a non-critical switch to replace it with.<br>
I usually have to listen to people whine once a week because they can't do this or that with their computer and usually they are the ones whose laptops we have to wipe clean every six months.<br>
We could probably allow users more freedom if we had more money for backups and storage and people to support the carnage it would create, but I limited funds and I'm not going to burn out good people because someone thinks they need unfettered ability to install software on a working computer.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In some cases this is a calculated assessment .
Most days I would love to say " Here do whatever you want , go make money " .
But whenever that happens we usually end up with computers that are pretty much toast , right about the time a report is due or shipping needs to be done .
My brother who is also an admin , spent a lot of his time cleaning crazy crap off of users computers because his department would n't spend extra money for MS Professional version .
So he was busy all the time .
Each person in IT was spending a day a week cleaning up computers for malware and spyware , until we started restricting internet usage .
And I take a lot of crap for end users because of it .
But you know what , in the last five years , we have not had a serious virus outbreak , computer failure , failure to get proposals done on time , missed shipments due to computer outages and we have only had 1.5 hours where manufacturing was stopped due to network failure and that was because somebody had taken the backup switch we had for a small but critical segment of our network .
If we had still had it in stock , we would have fixed it in 45 minutes , ( took us 30 minutes to have someone respond in the middle of the night ) and took us 45 minutes to find a non-critical switch to replace it with .
I usually have to listen to people whine once a week because they ca n't do this or that with their computer and usually they are the ones whose laptops we have to wipe clean every six months .
We could probably allow users more freedom if we had more money for backups and storage and people to support the carnage it would create , but I limited funds and I 'm not going to burn out good people because someone thinks they need unfettered ability to install software on a working computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In some cases this is a calculated assessment.
Most days I would love to say "Here do whatever you want, go make money".
But whenever that happens we usually end up with computers that are pretty much toast, right about the time a report is due or shipping needs to be done.
My brother who is also an admin, spent a lot of his time cleaning crazy crap off of users computers because his department wouldn't spend extra money for MS Professional version.
So he was busy all the time.
Each person in IT was spending a day a week cleaning up computers for malware and spyware, until we started restricting internet usage.
And I take a lot of crap for end users because of it.
But you know what, in the last five years, we have not had a serious virus outbreak, computer failure, failure to get proposals done on time, missed shipments due to computer outages and we have only had 1.5 hours where manufacturing was stopped due to network failure and that was because somebody had taken the backup switch we had for a small but critical segment of our network.
If we had still had it in stock, we would have fixed it in 45 minutes, (took us 30 minutes to have someone respond in the middle of the night) and took us 45 minutes to find a non-critical switch to replace it with.
I usually have to listen to people whine once a week because they can't do this or that with their computer and usually they are the ones whose laptops we have to wipe clean every six months.
We could probably allow users more freedom if we had more money for backups and storage and people to support the carnage it would create, but I limited funds and I'm not going to burn out good people because someone thinks they need unfettered ability to install software on a working computer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895225</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29925851</id>
	<title>IT may be shrinking but the tech is changing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256926140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The biggest problem with IT is that alot of people in it have and overinflated sense of professional worth.  Not everyone but this question makes me think of all the difficult tools I've worked with.  Overweight or socially inept in some way, defensive and abrasive, sarcastic but not in a funny way.<br>As server, storage and even networking technologies consolidate there is less of a need for a tech guru who can build a server from scratch or maintain a legacy system since even as those continue to exist they just die.<br>It is becoming more of a service industry and the skill set demands this in order to impart expectations to your customers.  If you don't learn that here.  You're just going to have to learn it the hard way in a field you don't understand with more dynamic people who aren't going to put up with your garbage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The biggest problem with IT is that alot of people in it have and overinflated sense of professional worth .
Not everyone but this question makes me think of all the difficult tools I 've worked with .
Overweight or socially inept in some way , defensive and abrasive , sarcastic but not in a funny way.As server , storage and even networking technologies consolidate there is less of a need for a tech guru who can build a server from scratch or maintain a legacy system since even as those continue to exist they just die.It is becoming more of a service industry and the skill set demands this in order to impart expectations to your customers .
If you do n't learn that here .
You 're just going to have to learn it the hard way in a field you do n't understand with more dynamic people who are n't going to put up with your garbage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The biggest problem with IT is that alot of people in it have and overinflated sense of professional worth.
Not everyone but this question makes me think of all the difficult tools I've worked with.
Overweight or socially inept in some way, defensive and abrasive, sarcastic but not in a funny way.As server, storage and even networking technologies consolidate there is less of a need for a tech guru who can build a server from scratch or maintain a legacy system since even as those continue to exist they just die.It is becoming more of a service industry and the skill set demands this in order to impart expectations to your customers.
If you don't learn that here.
You're just going to have to learn it the hard way in a field you don't understand with more dynamic people who aren't going to put up with your garbage.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894389</id>
	<title>No iteration Planning involved</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256723700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Allow me to ramble. Actually even if you have lot of experience and interest it is becoming impossible to continue in the same company for more that a year or two. Companies have managers and managers don't have planning knowledge. They have not even heard of lean, kanban or scrum or anything like that. Software is released without testing. Managers abuse the technical guys and senior managers turn a blind eye. In some asian countries they make a lot of money by releasing sub-standard software. Even financial software. The funny part is that even big banks buy this software because it is done quickly and cheaply.</p><p>What has become of the software industry ? There is just no time to deliver good software. No family life. Worthless managers and people who aspire to be managers shout at and disrespect software developers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Allow me to ramble .
Actually even if you have lot of experience and interest it is becoming impossible to continue in the same company for more that a year or two .
Companies have managers and managers do n't have planning knowledge .
They have not even heard of lean , kanban or scrum or anything like that .
Software is released without testing .
Managers abuse the technical guys and senior managers turn a blind eye .
In some asian countries they make a lot of money by releasing sub-standard software .
Even financial software .
The funny part is that even big banks buy this software because it is done quickly and cheaply.What has become of the software industry ?
There is just no time to deliver good software .
No family life .
Worthless managers and people who aspire to be managers shout at and disrespect software developers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Allow me to ramble.
Actually even if you have lot of experience and interest it is becoming impossible to continue in the same company for more that a year or two.
Companies have managers and managers don't have planning knowledge.
They have not even heard of lean, kanban or scrum or anything like that.
Software is released without testing.
Managers abuse the technical guys and senior managers turn a blind eye.
In some asian countries they make a lot of money by releasing sub-standard software.
Even financial software.
The funny part is that even big banks buy this software because it is done quickly and cheaply.What has become of the software industry ?
There is just no time to deliver good software.
No family life.
Worthless managers and people who aspire to be managers shout at and disrespect software developers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893647</id>
	<title>I was thinking about other direction</title>
	<author>Fotograf</author>
	<datestamp>1256670300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>i seem to like IT, specially that email thingy, only what i don't understand is, why is everybody so oriented to and stressed about my penis.</htmltext>
<tokenext>i seem to like IT , specially that email thingy , only what i do n't understand is , why is everybody so oriented to and stressed about my penis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i seem to like IT, specially that email thingy, only what i don't understand is, why is everybody so oriented to and stressed about my penis.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894055</id>
	<title>US Army</title>
	<author>MindTree</author>
	<datestamp>1256762220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I joined the US Army as an Infantryman.  Can't get much farther away from IT than that.  I wasn't trying to move away from IT, it was response to my country at war and the subsequent loss of a friend to insurgent action in Iraq that made my decision for me.</p><p>I obviously work with people in an entirely different way than I did in IT.  For the record, I was a software engineer with IBM in Pittsburgh on the Websphere Competency Center team.  I loved my job and still can't imagine a better group of co-workers and business partners to work with.  Maybe I'll get back to tech after my time in the Army, maybe I won't.</p><p>In the Army I'm currently a 240B medium machine gun team leader.  My age (29 when I joined the Army) and experience (good civilian job, college) earned me a little more flexibility in promotions, but no more respect with my peers.  The average age in my company is approximately 21.  It's been an uphill battle to compete physically, but it's a challenge I've found fascinating.</p><p>As for the money, better make sure you're in a good position before making a move like this.  Thanks to my 7 years at IBM, I was, but it would be a nightmare to try to live off lower enlisted salary when you're used to much more.</p><p>My previous experience did land me one unfortunate headache, the CO/1SG found out that I was "good with computers" and stuck me in company operations for 10 months.  Try to avoid talking about your previous IT experience if you go this route.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I joined the US Army as an Infantryman .
Ca n't get much farther away from IT than that .
I was n't trying to move away from IT , it was response to my country at war and the subsequent loss of a friend to insurgent action in Iraq that made my decision for me.I obviously work with people in an entirely different way than I did in IT .
For the record , I was a software engineer with IBM in Pittsburgh on the Websphere Competency Center team .
I loved my job and still ca n't imagine a better group of co-workers and business partners to work with .
Maybe I 'll get back to tech after my time in the Army , maybe I wo n't.In the Army I 'm currently a 240B medium machine gun team leader .
My age ( 29 when I joined the Army ) and experience ( good civilian job , college ) earned me a little more flexibility in promotions , but no more respect with my peers .
The average age in my company is approximately 21 .
It 's been an uphill battle to compete physically , but it 's a challenge I 've found fascinating.As for the money , better make sure you 're in a good position before making a move like this .
Thanks to my 7 years at IBM , I was , but it would be a nightmare to try to live off lower enlisted salary when you 're used to much more.My previous experience did land me one unfortunate headache , the CO/1SG found out that I was " good with computers " and stuck me in company operations for 10 months .
Try to avoid talking about your previous IT experience if you go this route .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I joined the US Army as an Infantryman.
Can't get much farther away from IT than that.
I wasn't trying to move away from IT, it was response to my country at war and the subsequent loss of a friend to insurgent action in Iraq that made my decision for me.I obviously work with people in an entirely different way than I did in IT.
For the record, I was a software engineer with IBM in Pittsburgh on the Websphere Competency Center team.
I loved my job and still can't imagine a better group of co-workers and business partners to work with.
Maybe I'll get back to tech after my time in the Army, maybe I won't.In the Army I'm currently a 240B medium machine gun team leader.
My age (29 when I joined the Army) and experience (good civilian job, college) earned me a little more flexibility in promotions, but no more respect with my peers.
The average age in my company is approximately 21.
It's been an uphill battle to compete physically, but it's a challenge I've found fascinating.As for the money, better make sure you're in a good position before making a move like this.
Thanks to my 7 years at IBM, I was, but it would be a nightmare to try to live off lower enlisted salary when you're used to much more.My previous experience did land me one unfortunate headache, the CO/1SG found out that I was "good with computers" and stuck me in company operations for 10 months.
Try to avoid talking about your previous IT experience if you go this route.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29908845</id>
	<title>real question: can you live on &pound;16k to &poun</title>
	<author>vaporland</author>
	<datestamp>1256824080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree that both unions and corporations abuse their power - absolute power corrupts absolutely. At the same time, what do you say to someone trying to survive on &pound;16k to &pound;18k a year in the UK or $25-$45k a year in the USA?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that both unions and corporations abuse their power - absolute power corrupts absolutely .
At the same time , what do you say to someone trying to survive on   16k to   18k a year in the UK or $ 25- $ 45k a year in the USA ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that both unions and corporations abuse their power - absolute power corrupts absolutely.
At the same time, what do you say to someone trying to survive on £16k to £18k a year in the UK or $25-$45k a year in the USA?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256721000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This all sounds like a troll but it's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the "intelligent" folks are working as slaves.</p><p>How did it come to this?</p></div><p>I don't know, mate, but I do know the feeling.</p><p>I hit the low point some 4 years ago. , when it suddenly dawned on me that I tended to wake up in the morning thinking how much easier it would be just to give up; take an overdose of something pleasant and say goodbye. Except that you can't, really, when you have children adn a wife that love you - sometimes hope really is the worst thing.</p><p>Instead I started thinking about what it was that I hated about my job and my life, and what role I played in maintaining the status quo. Why didn't I have any friends at work? Well, to be honest, I was a grumpy git that never tried to fit in - I had all the right reasons, like I can't stand idiotic smalltalk about nothing, but the truth is that I was simply intolerant and fairly obnoxious. And why didn't I get any of the interesting projects with career potential? It's easy to see now, of course, that nobody wants to work with a contrary idiot, who seems to begrudge the very existence of his colleagues, but back then I didn't have the courage to admit it.</p><p>I didn't turn all that around in an instant, but I found that I could start out small, by standing up for myself on a few points. The thing is - I realised that a lot of the reason why I was that way was that I didn't have confidence in my own value. And how can others respect you if you don't respect yourself? Standing up for myself in small ways built up my self-confidence, which made me work to a better standard and it also helped others believe in me. I found the energy to be a little bit of an "idiot" like the rest and be more tolerant; now I am The Almighty UNIX Manager - in a small way - and the bosses actually talk to me with respect. It's not all wonderful, far from it, but I think I can see the light at the other end of the tunnel sometimes.</p><p>Of course this is just my story, but I think the morale is that it doesn't all have to be bad; if you find you are knee-deep in shit, bag it and sell manure.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This all sounds like a troll but it 's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the " intelligent " folks are working as slaves.How did it come to this ? I do n't know , mate , but I do know the feeling.I hit the low point some 4 years ago .
, when it suddenly dawned on me that I tended to wake up in the morning thinking how much easier it would be just to give up ; take an overdose of something pleasant and say goodbye .
Except that you ca n't , really , when you have children adn a wife that love you - sometimes hope really is the worst thing.Instead I started thinking about what it was that I hated about my job and my life , and what role I played in maintaining the status quo .
Why did n't I have any friends at work ?
Well , to be honest , I was a grumpy git that never tried to fit in - I had all the right reasons , like I ca n't stand idiotic smalltalk about nothing , but the truth is that I was simply intolerant and fairly obnoxious .
And why did n't I get any of the interesting projects with career potential ?
It 's easy to see now , of course , that nobody wants to work with a contrary idiot , who seems to begrudge the very existence of his colleagues , but back then I did n't have the courage to admit it.I did n't turn all that around in an instant , but I found that I could start out small , by standing up for myself on a few points .
The thing is - I realised that a lot of the reason why I was that way was that I did n't have confidence in my own value .
And how can others respect you if you do n't respect yourself ?
Standing up for myself in small ways built up my self-confidence , which made me work to a better standard and it also helped others believe in me .
I found the energy to be a little bit of an " idiot " like the rest and be more tolerant ; now I am The Almighty UNIX Manager - in a small way - and the bosses actually talk to me with respect .
It 's not all wonderful , far from it , but I think I can see the light at the other end of the tunnel sometimes.Of course this is just my story , but I think the morale is that it does n't all have to be bad ; if you find you are knee-deep in shit , bag it and sell manure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This all sounds like a troll but it's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the "intelligent" folks are working as slaves.How did it come to this?I don't know, mate, but I do know the feeling.I hit the low point some 4 years ago.
, when it suddenly dawned on me that I tended to wake up in the morning thinking how much easier it would be just to give up; take an overdose of something pleasant and say goodbye.
Except that you can't, really, when you have children adn a wife that love you - sometimes hope really is the worst thing.Instead I started thinking about what it was that I hated about my job and my life, and what role I played in maintaining the status quo.
Why didn't I have any friends at work?
Well, to be honest, I was a grumpy git that never tried to fit in - I had all the right reasons, like I can't stand idiotic smalltalk about nothing, but the truth is that I was simply intolerant and fairly obnoxious.
And why didn't I get any of the interesting projects with career potential?
It's easy to see now, of course, that nobody wants to work with a contrary idiot, who seems to begrudge the very existence of his colleagues, but back then I didn't have the courage to admit it.I didn't turn all that around in an instant, but I found that I could start out small, by standing up for myself on a few points.
The thing is - I realised that a lot of the reason why I was that way was that I didn't have confidence in my own value.
And how can others respect you if you don't respect yourself?
Standing up for myself in small ways built up my self-confidence, which made me work to a better standard and it also helped others believe in me.
I found the energy to be a little bit of an "idiot" like the rest and be more tolerant; now I am The Almighty UNIX Manager - in a small way - and the bosses actually talk to me with respect.
It's not all wonderful, far from it, but I think I can see the light at the other end of the tunnel sometimes.Of course this is just my story, but I think the morale is that it doesn't all have to be bad; if you find you are knee-deep in shit, bag it and sell manure.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894413</id>
	<title>Re:Out of the frying pan, and into the fire</title>
	<author>hab136</author>
	<datestamp>1256724060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I'd say it is as big a change as you can axe for</p></div></blockquote><p>I really, really hope you used "axe" as a joke.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd say it is as big a change as you can axe forI really , really hope you used " axe " as a joke .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd say it is as big a change as you can axe forI really, really hope you used "axe" as a joke.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893591</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894929</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Aladrin</author>
	<datestamp>1256731440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with Rand's philosophy to a point, but it has -nothing- to do with why IT is like it is.</p><p>IT is staffed mainly by people who love doing the job.  That means that when it comes to taking a little crap to keep your job, you take it because you love the actual job.  More and more get piled on until it's the standard way to do things in the industry.</p><p>On the other hand, Atlas Shrugged was all about getting the respect and recompensation that you deserve for your hard work.  It's pretty exactly the opposite of what is happening in the IT industry.  If we were using that book as a guide, we'd all be quitting and finding a job elsewhere...  You know, kind of like TFS is asking about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with Rand 's philosophy to a point , but it has -nothing- to do with why IT is like it is.IT is staffed mainly by people who love doing the job .
That means that when it comes to taking a little crap to keep your job , you take it because you love the actual job .
More and more get piled on until it 's the standard way to do things in the industry.On the other hand , Atlas Shrugged was all about getting the respect and recompensation that you deserve for your hard work .
It 's pretty exactly the opposite of what is happening in the IT industry .
If we were using that book as a guide , we 'd all be quitting and finding a job elsewhere... You know , kind of like TFS is asking about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with Rand's philosophy to a point, but it has -nothing- to do with why IT is like it is.IT is staffed mainly by people who love doing the job.
That means that when it comes to taking a little crap to keep your job, you take it because you love the actual job.
More and more get piled on until it's the standard way to do things in the industry.On the other hand, Atlas Shrugged was all about getting the respect and recompensation that you deserve for your hard work.
It's pretty exactly the opposite of what is happening in the IT industry.
If we were using that book as a guide, we'd all be quitting and finding a job elsewhere...  You know, kind of like TFS is asking about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900267</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>Atomm</author>
	<datestamp>1256756880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>.....unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others even on their worst days.</p></div><p>
Don't worry though.... Much like a person who gets into politics with good intentions, they too will become jaded just like the rest of their coworkers.....
<br> <br>
I'd like to make another comment. I'm a network engineer and my wife is an RN, 10+ years. I know first hand that IT can be thankless and people look at you as a blue collar worker there to do their bidding. But in Nursing, it's worse. People expect you to be their Nurse, Doctor, Waiter, Grief Counselor, Social Worker and clean up their poop. Nursing may be stable and pay good money, but if I was to look for an under appreciated class of educated professionals, Nursing would be two rungs below IT on the respect ladder.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>.....unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion , patience , and willingness to help others even on their worst days .
Do n't worry though.... Much like a person who gets into politics with good intentions , they too will become jaded just like the rest of their coworkers.... . I 'd like to make another comment .
I 'm a network engineer and my wife is an RN , 10 + years .
I know first hand that IT can be thankless and people look at you as a blue collar worker there to do their bidding .
But in Nursing , it 's worse .
People expect you to be their Nurse , Doctor , Waiter , Grief Counselor , Social Worker and clean up their poop .
Nursing may be stable and pay good money , but if I was to look for an under appreciated class of educated professionals , Nursing would be two rungs below IT on the respect ladder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.....unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others even on their worst days.
Don't worry though.... Much like a person who gets into politics with good intentions, they too will become jaded just like the rest of their coworkers.....
 
I'd like to make another comment.
I'm a network engineer and my wife is an RN, 10+ years.
I know first hand that IT can be thankless and people look at you as a blue collar worker there to do their bidding.
But in Nursing, it's worse.
People expect you to be their Nurse, Doctor, Waiter, Grief Counselor, Social Worker and clean up their poop.
Nursing may be stable and pay good money, but if I was to look for an under appreciated class of educated professionals, Nursing would be two rungs below IT on the respect ladder.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895165</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256733540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just to prove your blanket-stereotype wrong, I am an anarchist who has worked in IT for over 12 years (primarily database programming/administration) and have never even asked for a raise. I am probably the lowest-paid office personnel in this company, even lower than some production workers. I know a lot of people who make more than me -- even people who don't particularly hold a specialized skill -- but I have never even once questioned it, even to myself. It's none of my business. I'm not jealous, and I'm not selfish.</p><p>But here's the catch. I don't believe in government, just as an athiest doesn't believe in god. I believe that centralized power is the largest and most successful <i>scam</i> in human history, as well as evidence that despite our technological accomplishments, human beings are still quite primitive in certain aspects. Particularly the instinct to blindly follow rather than think; to choose sides and fight against others, even when there is no need.</p><p>Yet I'm not at all the selfish, money-hungry, materialistic chump you make me out to be. In fact, most of the selfish materialistic types I come across in life are very pro-government, not at all the libertarian/anarchist types. They are easy to spot; you will find them making demands on others, rather than on themselves.</p><p>FYI, the moral of Atlas Shrugged is that coercion is wrong, not that dog-eat-dog capitalism is right.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just to prove your blanket-stereotype wrong , I am an anarchist who has worked in IT for over 12 years ( primarily database programming/administration ) and have never even asked for a raise .
I am probably the lowest-paid office personnel in this company , even lower than some production workers .
I know a lot of people who make more than me -- even people who do n't particularly hold a specialized skill -- but I have never even once questioned it , even to myself .
It 's none of my business .
I 'm not jealous , and I 'm not selfish.But here 's the catch .
I do n't believe in government , just as an athiest does n't believe in god .
I believe that centralized power is the largest and most successful scam in human history , as well as evidence that despite our technological accomplishments , human beings are still quite primitive in certain aspects .
Particularly the instinct to blindly follow rather than think ; to choose sides and fight against others , even when there is no need.Yet I 'm not at all the selfish , money-hungry , materialistic chump you make me out to be .
In fact , most of the selfish materialistic types I come across in life are very pro-government , not at all the libertarian/anarchist types .
They are easy to spot ; you will find them making demands on others , rather than on themselves.FYI , the moral of Atlas Shrugged is that coercion is wrong , not that dog-eat-dog capitalism is right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just to prove your blanket-stereotype wrong, I am an anarchist who has worked in IT for over 12 years (primarily database programming/administration) and have never even asked for a raise.
I am probably the lowest-paid office personnel in this company, even lower than some production workers.
I know a lot of people who make more than me -- even people who don't particularly hold a specialized skill -- but I have never even once questioned it, even to myself.
It's none of my business.
I'm not jealous, and I'm not selfish.But here's the catch.
I don't believe in government, just as an athiest doesn't believe in god.
I believe that centralized power is the largest and most successful scam in human history, as well as evidence that despite our technological accomplishments, human beings are still quite primitive in certain aspects.
Particularly the instinct to blindly follow rather than think; to choose sides and fight against others, even when there is no need.Yet I'm not at all the selfish, money-hungry, materialistic chump you make me out to be.
In fact, most of the selfish materialistic types I come across in life are very pro-government, not at all the libertarian/anarchist types.
They are easy to spot; you will find them making demands on others, rather than on themselves.FYI, the moral of Atlas Shrugged is that coercion is wrong, not that dog-eat-dog capitalism is right.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29903407</id>
	<title>Moving to Psych/Biofeedback</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256728380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I tapered off (not quit cold turkey) from IT a few yrs ago. Since then, I first tried film making. But didnt work out due to long lead time before you can make it. Now Im trying to shift to Psychology, especially biofeedback therapy. Coll thing is, lot of the instrumentation used in this field (EEG, MEG signal processing) and the analysis software (FFT, Wavelet transforms, volumetric visualization software etc.) transfers straignt from my IT background. Its really cool, and VERY cutting edge - some of the traditional MDs only reluctantly believe in it, and some insurance co.s only reluctantly pay for it, thats how cutting edge it is!!</p><p>I think Neuroscience is slowly evolving into NeuroEngineering, and thats the place to be, especially if you want to rid the world of evil pharma co.s, insurance co.s and want to make a real contribution to health care.</p><p>AND Oh, especially if you dream of inventing a REAL Tricorder</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tapered off ( not quit cold turkey ) from IT a few yrs ago .
Since then , I first tried film making .
But didnt work out due to long lead time before you can make it .
Now Im trying to shift to Psychology , especially biofeedback therapy .
Coll thing is , lot of the instrumentation used in this field ( EEG , MEG signal processing ) and the analysis software ( FFT , Wavelet transforms , volumetric visualization software etc .
) transfers straignt from my IT background .
Its really cool , and VERY cutting edge - some of the traditional MDs only reluctantly believe in it , and some insurance co.s only reluctantly pay for it , thats how cutting edge it is !
! I think Neuroscience is slowly evolving into NeuroEngineering , and thats the place to be , especially if you want to rid the world of evil pharma co.s , insurance co.s and want to make a real contribution to health care.AND Oh , especially if you dream of inventing a REAL Tricorder</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tapered off (not quit cold turkey) from IT a few yrs ago.
Since then, I first tried film making.
But didnt work out due to long lead time before you can make it.
Now Im trying to shift to Psychology, especially biofeedback therapy.
Coll thing is, lot of the instrumentation used in this field (EEG, MEG signal processing) and the analysis software (FFT, Wavelet transforms, volumetric visualization software etc.
) transfers straignt from my IT background.
Its really cool, and VERY cutting edge - some of the traditional MDs only reluctantly believe in it, and some insurance co.s only reluctantly pay for it, thats how cutting edge it is!
!I think Neuroscience is slowly evolving into NeuroEngineering, and thats the place to be, especially if you want to rid the world of evil pharma co.s, insurance co.s and want to make a real contribution to health care.AND Oh, especially if you dream of inventing a REAL Tricorder</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898901</id>
	<title>Getting into financial planning and securities</title>
	<author>rcpitt</author>
	<datestamp>1256751420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My sentiments exactly - I'm taking the Canadian Securities Course - and a course on insurance and getting into the financial sector. If nothing else I'll be able to do some stuff with computers that other such people have no clue about - but I'll be doing it for ME</htmltext>
<tokenext>My sentiments exactly - I 'm taking the Canadian Securities Course - and a course on insurance and getting into the financial sector .
If nothing else I 'll be able to do some stuff with computers that other such people have no clue about - but I 'll be doing it for ME</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My sentiments exactly - I'm taking the Canadian Securities Course - and a course on insurance and getting into the financial sector.
If nothing else I'll be able to do some stuff with computers that other such people have no clue about - but I'll be doing it for ME</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897195</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256744220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>MOD PARENT UP!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MOD PARENT UP !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MOD PARENT UP!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894361</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897207</id>
	<title>Re:Very timely...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256744280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow!  So are you just taking the sabatical and rejuvenating or are you looking to expand your work elsewhere?  I'd be interested.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow !
So are you just taking the sabatical and rejuvenating or are you looking to expand your work elsewhere ?
I 'd be interested .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow!
So are you just taking the sabatical and rejuvenating or are you looking to expand your work elsewhere?
I'd be interested.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893793</id>
	<title>If you still want work in 2 years</title>
	<author>CranberryKing</author>
	<datestamp>1256672160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Better become a blacksmith. All this technology crap will be useless.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Better become a blacksmith .
All this technology crap will be useless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Better become a blacksmith.
All this technology crap will be useless.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893497</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256668500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hadn't thought of that. I just LOVE to clean up poop. In fact, I'll sit there waiting, watching, anticipating, ready to catch it before it can fall onto the mattress. I'm perfect for that job, and I'll even do it for free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had n't thought of that .
I just LOVE to clean up poop .
In fact , I 'll sit there waiting , watching , anticipating , ready to catch it before it can fall onto the mattress .
I 'm perfect for that job , and I 'll even do it for free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hadn't thought of that.
I just LOVE to clean up poop.
In fact, I'll sit there waiting, watching, anticipating, ready to catch it before it can fall onto the mattress.
I'm perfect for that job, and I'll even do it for free.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902909</id>
	<title>Re:Bean Sprout Farming</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1256725920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pot has a higher market value.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pot has a higher market value .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pot has a higher market value.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894097</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256762820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Eat the rich.
<p>
They're chewy and they'll make you fart, but at least they can be a tasty burrito.  I can't think of any other redeeming quality for the task masters.
</p><p>
Human nature eventually makes pigs of everyone. It sure isnt kosher but its best not to waste all of that bacon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Eat the rich .
They 're chewy and they 'll make you fart , but at least they can be a tasty burrito .
I ca n't think of any other redeeming quality for the task masters .
Human nature eventually makes pigs of everyone .
It sure isnt kosher but its best not to waste all of that bacon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Eat the rich.
They're chewy and they'll make you fart, but at least they can be a tasty burrito.
I can't think of any other redeeming quality for the task masters.
Human nature eventually makes pigs of everyone.
It sure isnt kosher but its best not to waste all of that bacon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896395</id>
	<title>Re:Very timely...</title>
	<author>that IT girl</author>
	<datestamp>1256741220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would love to take time off and do this, but unfortunately I can't. I simply don't have the funds to go for long without an income. How did you manage?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would love to take time off and do this , but unfortunately I ca n't .
I simply do n't have the funds to go for long without an income .
How did you manage ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would love to take time off and do this, but unfortunately I can't.
I simply don't have the funds to go for long without an income.
How did you manage?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897343</id>
	<title>Re:SciOps</title>
	<author>boristdog</author>
	<datestamp>1256744880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Science abhors a vacuum between people's ears, so everyone you work with will be smart in some way or another.<br>Scientists actually recognize and appreciate the fact that You Make Things Work. (egad!)<br>Hiring authorities often equally happy with a degree in their science, some other science, technology, or engineering.<br>Stress level can be significantly lower in some cases (like mine).</i></p><p>All true.  I worked IT in a research consortium for two years until the (non-technical) execs stole the money (seriously- they actually stole it and ran off) and the place closed down.</p><p>But the environment was great and for those of us who are total nerds for new technology, it was awesome.  These folks were working on stuff that the rest of the world wouldn't see for 10 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Science abhors a vacuum between people 's ears , so everyone you work with will be smart in some way or another.Scientists actually recognize and appreciate the fact that You Make Things Work .
( egad ! ) Hiring authorities often equally happy with a degree in their science , some other science , technology , or engineering.Stress level can be significantly lower in some cases ( like mine ) .All true .
I worked IT in a research consortium for two years until the ( non-technical ) execs stole the money ( seriously- they actually stole it and ran off ) and the place closed down.But the environment was great and for those of us who are total nerds for new technology , it was awesome .
These folks were working on stuff that the rest of the world would n't see for 10 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Science abhors a vacuum between people's ears, so everyone you work with will be smart in some way or another.Scientists actually recognize and appreciate the fact that You Make Things Work.
(egad!)Hiring authorities often equally happy with a degree in their science, some other science, technology, or engineering.Stress level can be significantly lower in some cases (like mine).All true.
I worked IT in a research consortium for two years until the (non-technical) execs stole the money (seriously- they actually stole it and ran off) and the place closed down.But the environment was great and for those of us who are total nerds for new technology, it was awesome.
These folks were working on stuff that the rest of the world wouldn't see for 10 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893771</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29899171</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>starfishsystems</author>
	<datestamp>1256752560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well said.
<br> <br>
Nobody in their right mind actively goes out to seek the hardships that deliver these fundamental insights.  It would be much easier to just float along in life, working toward our endless list of what we consider to be self-evident goals.
<br> <br>
Nobody wants an existential crisis to get in the way of all that. But if it does, something extraordinary can happen.  You're forced to reevaluate everything you stand for.  If you have the moral courage to see that as a necessary exercise and give it your best effort, some amazing things can happen.  Humility is the most essential discovery of them all.  It's something like being reborn.  Your ego has to let go of its need to preserve the status quo.
<br> <br>
You just can't go out and buy that sort of wisdom.  Almost by definition, you have to be dragged kicking and screaming toward it.  But such freedom afterward!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well said .
Nobody in their right mind actively goes out to seek the hardships that deliver these fundamental insights .
It would be much easier to just float along in life , working toward our endless list of what we consider to be self-evident goals .
Nobody wants an existential crisis to get in the way of all that .
But if it does , something extraordinary can happen .
You 're forced to reevaluate everything you stand for .
If you have the moral courage to see that as a necessary exercise and give it your best effort , some amazing things can happen .
Humility is the most essential discovery of them all .
It 's something like being reborn .
Your ego has to let go of its need to preserve the status quo .
You just ca n't go out and buy that sort of wisdom .
Almost by definition , you have to be dragged kicking and screaming toward it .
But such freedom afterward !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well said.
Nobody in their right mind actively goes out to seek the hardships that deliver these fundamental insights.
It would be much easier to just float along in life, working toward our endless list of what we consider to be self-evident goals.
Nobody wants an existential crisis to get in the way of all that.
But if it does, something extraordinary can happen.
You're forced to reevaluate everything you stand for.
If you have the moral courage to see that as a necessary exercise and give it your best effort, some amazing things can happen.
Humility is the most essential discovery of them all.
It's something like being reborn.
Your ego has to let go of its need to preserve the status quo.
You just can't go out and buy that sort of wisdom.
Almost by definition, you have to be dragged kicking and screaming toward it.
But such freedom afterward!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893701</id>
	<title>obvious</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256671140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unions are good someone says..</p><p>IT is treated liek crap in this country, someone says...</p><p>Wouldnt an IT union be incredibly powerful if it was popular?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unions are good someone says..IT is treated liek crap in this country , someone says...Wouldnt an IT union be incredibly powerful if it was popular ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unions are good someone says..IT is treated liek crap in this country, someone says...Wouldnt an IT union be incredibly powerful if it was popular?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893503</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256668620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I moved from IT to the business of the same organization. I still deal (in a much smaller aspect) with the IT department, but do so working as a business analyst. From a HR point of view, it's great because I am able to REALLY talk to the business about what they want and whether it is plausible, and I am able to make excellent requirements that the IT folks can follow and not cock up because they are too vague to really know what is wanted.<br> <br>

Oh, also, within a year of moving over, my salary was around 25\% higher than it was when I was on the IT side of the fence.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I moved from IT to the business of the same organization .
I still deal ( in a much smaller aspect ) with the IT department , but do so working as a business analyst .
From a HR point of view , it 's great because I am able to REALLY talk to the business about what they want and whether it is plausible , and I am able to make excellent requirements that the IT folks can follow and not cock up because they are too vague to really know what is wanted .
Oh , also , within a year of moving over , my salary was around 25 \ % higher than it was when I was on the IT side of the fence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I moved from IT to the business of the same organization.
I still deal (in a much smaller aspect) with the IT department, but do so working as a business analyst.
From a HR point of view, it's great because I am able to REALLY talk to the business about what they want and whether it is plausible, and I am able to make excellent requirements that the IT folks can follow and not cock up because they are too vague to really know what is wanted.
Oh, also, within a year of moving over, my salary was around 25\% higher than it was when I was on the IT side of the fence.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893621</id>
	<title>OK how do you get jobs like this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256670000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did you already have IT training? I don't understand how you people get jobs you seemingly are unqualified for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did you already have IT training ?
I do n't understand how you people get jobs you seemingly are unqualified for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did you already have IT training?
I don't understand how you people get jobs you seemingly are unqualified for.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29899075</id>
	<title>Re:Applying economics to job hunting</title>
	<author>Overzeetop</author>
	<datestamp>1256752200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IT worker wasn't cutting it, so...you became a manager.</p><p>I'm not being sarcastic...this is usually the way out of the dead end job market for the lucky few who can/will find a parallel career. It takes a certain kind of personality to succeed, though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IT worker was n't cutting it , so...you became a manager.I 'm not being sarcastic...this is usually the way out of the dead end job market for the lucky few who can/will find a parallel career .
It takes a certain kind of personality to succeed , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT worker wasn't cutting it, so...you became a manager.I'm not being sarcastic...this is usually the way out of the dead end job market for the lucky few who can/will find a parallel career.
It takes a certain kind of personality to succeed, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893939</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893981</id>
	<title>I bought a bar</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256761020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seven years ago I dropped out of IT and bought a bar (in NZ). There's a long story in there somewhere (that began in Philly), but in the end it's worked out better for me. I'm like most IT folks I think, in that if I'm absorbed in my work in front of a computer, I have no desire to leave, even if there is a great big party somewhere or something that involves human interaction. Bar work gets you out there and it sure as hell beats sitting in a cubicle.</p><p>Probably the best thing about the switch is that bar transactions have a beginning and an end. You want a bourbon and coke? Okay, here's your drink, thanks for the money. If they want another drink, it's a new transaction. People don't come back with a drink and say, "you know, this is just great, and what would make it even better is if it had round ice cubes instead of square ones - no, let's make that two square ones and three round ones, and with more synergy." That drove me nuts as a coder.</p><p>That being said, I still developed my own touchscreen till system and back-end tools for the bar. And I've got a couple of hobby game dev projects on the side. It's in my blood, I can't get away from it and I really don't want to. It's a nice balance to earn a buck from a social job, and then have a coding hobby.</p><p>Although I think I'm at the end of this run and will likely sell the bar within the next year. That's probably my entrepreneurial side that feels that seven years is too long to be doing the same thing. Not too sure what's next, but I've been thinking about bees lately...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seven years ago I dropped out of IT and bought a bar ( in NZ ) .
There 's a long story in there somewhere ( that began in Philly ) , but in the end it 's worked out better for me .
I 'm like most IT folks I think , in that if I 'm absorbed in my work in front of a computer , I have no desire to leave , even if there is a great big party somewhere or something that involves human interaction .
Bar work gets you out there and it sure as hell beats sitting in a cubicle.Probably the best thing about the switch is that bar transactions have a beginning and an end .
You want a bourbon and coke ?
Okay , here 's your drink , thanks for the money .
If they want another drink , it 's a new transaction .
People do n't come back with a drink and say , " you know , this is just great , and what would make it even better is if it had round ice cubes instead of square ones - no , let 's make that two square ones and three round ones , and with more synergy .
" That drove me nuts as a coder.That being said , I still developed my own touchscreen till system and back-end tools for the bar .
And I 've got a couple of hobby game dev projects on the side .
It 's in my blood , I ca n't get away from it and I really do n't want to .
It 's a nice balance to earn a buck from a social job , and then have a coding hobby.Although I think I 'm at the end of this run and will likely sell the bar within the next year .
That 's probably my entrepreneurial side that feels that seven years is too long to be doing the same thing .
Not too sure what 's next , but I 've been thinking about bees lately.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seven years ago I dropped out of IT and bought a bar (in NZ).
There's a long story in there somewhere (that began in Philly), but in the end it's worked out better for me.
I'm like most IT folks I think, in that if I'm absorbed in my work in front of a computer, I have no desire to leave, even if there is a great big party somewhere or something that involves human interaction.
Bar work gets you out there and it sure as hell beats sitting in a cubicle.Probably the best thing about the switch is that bar transactions have a beginning and an end.
You want a bourbon and coke?
Okay, here's your drink, thanks for the money.
If they want another drink, it's a new transaction.
People don't come back with a drink and say, "you know, this is just great, and what would make it even better is if it had round ice cubes instead of square ones - no, let's make that two square ones and three round ones, and with more synergy.
" That drove me nuts as a coder.That being said, I still developed my own touchscreen till system and back-end tools for the bar.
And I've got a couple of hobby game dev projects on the side.
It's in my blood, I can't get away from it and I really don't want to.
It's a nice balance to earn a buck from a social job, and then have a coding hobby.Although I think I'm at the end of this run and will likely sell the bar within the next year.
That's probably my entrepreneurial side that feels that seven years is too long to be doing the same thing.
Not too sure what's next, but I've been thinking about bees lately...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893785</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>BillGod</author>
	<datestamp>1256672100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was laid off from my IT position..  I live in Ohio.. everyone is laid off.  All I know is computers.  In a past life I was a paramedic but figured I didn't have the compassion needed for that job.  I understand computers and love to do it.  Thats why I chose IT.  About 6 months ago I took a leap and opened my own computer repair shop.  Only cost me about 2k to get the doors open. No stock of parts except the boxes of crap I had around my house.  I am now making profit after 6 months.  I love it.  I have no one to answer to but myself.  The customers are very thankful that there is some place they can go that will actually fix there issues.  I even have some older retired guys who just come in to hang out.  I have no experience what so ever in running a business.  Learning curve is not all that hard.  Luckily my neighbor is an accountant and helped me in that area.  The first 2 months were kind of scary not having anything to do.  Played a lot of pocket tanks with my friends.  Now I have an office that I don't even go into because I have so much to do.  If your an honest person that truly knows how to fix computers.  I am sure you would be a welcome asset to your community.  Oh yeah and the 2 mile drive to work is SWEET!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was laid off from my IT position.. I live in Ohio.. everyone is laid off .
All I know is computers .
In a past life I was a paramedic but figured I did n't have the compassion needed for that job .
I understand computers and love to do it .
Thats why I chose IT .
About 6 months ago I took a leap and opened my own computer repair shop .
Only cost me about 2k to get the doors open .
No stock of parts except the boxes of crap I had around my house .
I am now making profit after 6 months .
I love it .
I have no one to answer to but myself .
The customers are very thankful that there is some place they can go that will actually fix there issues .
I even have some older retired guys who just come in to hang out .
I have no experience what so ever in running a business .
Learning curve is not all that hard .
Luckily my neighbor is an accountant and helped me in that area .
The first 2 months were kind of scary not having anything to do .
Played a lot of pocket tanks with my friends .
Now I have an office that I do n't even go into because I have so much to do .
If your an honest person that truly knows how to fix computers .
I am sure you would be a welcome asset to your community .
Oh yeah and the 2 mile drive to work is SWEET !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was laid off from my IT position..  I live in Ohio.. everyone is laid off.
All I know is computers.
In a past life I was a paramedic but figured I didn't have the compassion needed for that job.
I understand computers and love to do it.
Thats why I chose IT.
About 6 months ago I took a leap and opened my own computer repair shop.
Only cost me about 2k to get the doors open.
No stock of parts except the boxes of crap I had around my house.
I am now making profit after 6 months.
I love it.
I have no one to answer to but myself.
The customers are very thankful that there is some place they can go that will actually fix there issues.
I even have some older retired guys who just come in to hang out.
I have no experience what so ever in running a business.
Learning curve is not all that hard.
Luckily my neighbor is an accountant and helped me in that area.
The first 2 months were kind of scary not having anything to do.
Played a lot of pocket tanks with my friends.
Now I have an office that I don't even go into because I have so much to do.
If your an honest person that truly knows how to fix computers.
I am sure you would be a welcome asset to your community.
Oh yeah and the 2 mile drive to work is SWEET!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29908665</id>
	<title>now buy Creative Recreation Mid Male Shoes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256822400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.tntshoes.com</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.tntshoes.com</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.tntshoes.com</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894015</id>
	<title>Re:Getting old in IT is the kiss of death.</title>
	<author>d'baba</author>
	<datestamp>1256761380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do you know what they do to an engineer when they reach 40?<br>
They take him out and shoot him.<br>
- (joke from <i>Primer</i>)<p>
I was in the computer business (hardware and software) for 30 years until I was 50ish and then came the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.com bust. Since then I've: been a waiter, been a cook, moved to the Nevada desert for a warehouse job, moved back to CA because Nevada and the warehouse sucked, couch surfed for a couple years and now I count kibble at a pet supply warehouse.</p><p>
The effect is real.</p><p>
When I was laid off in 2001 my manager and the HR people were soooo distraught. The HR drone that did my exit interview cried... (shades of glenn beck)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... until we got to signing the "No I won't sue you for age discrimination" form and I happened to mention that it would take more than 2 guys with white hair (the CEO and VP of Marketing) to save them if somebody really wanted to sue. No more tears.</p><p>
Think pro sports &amp; the effect is the same. Only the stars (who may or may not be worth the money) remain until they fall apart and can't play anymore.</p><p>
---<br>
Msot plopee hvae the abilit abiitly to raed ttaol gragabe. The mian sratem mdiea pvreos tihs dlaiy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you know what they do to an engineer when they reach 40 ?
They take him out and shoot him .
- ( joke from Primer ) I was in the computer business ( hardware and software ) for 30 years until I was 50ish and then came the .com bust .
Since then I 've : been a waiter , been a cook , moved to the Nevada desert for a warehouse job , moved back to CA because Nevada and the warehouse sucked , couch surfed for a couple years and now I count kibble at a pet supply warehouse .
The effect is real .
When I was laid off in 2001 my manager and the HR people were soooo distraught .
The HR drone that did my exit interview cried... ( shades of glenn beck ) ... until we got to signing the " No I wo n't sue you for age discrimination " form and I happened to mention that it would take more than 2 guys with white hair ( the CEO and VP of Marketing ) to save them if somebody really wanted to sue .
No more tears .
Think pro sports &amp; the effect is the same .
Only the stars ( who may or may not be worth the money ) remain until they fall apart and ca n't play anymore .
--- Msot plopee hvae the abilit abiitly to raed ttaol gragabe .
The mian sratem mdiea pvreos tihs dlaiy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you know what they do to an engineer when they reach 40?
They take him out and shoot him.
- (joke from Primer)
I was in the computer business (hardware and software) for 30 years until I was 50ish and then came the .com bust.
Since then I've: been a waiter, been a cook, moved to the Nevada desert for a warehouse job, moved back to CA because Nevada and the warehouse sucked, couch surfed for a couple years and now I count kibble at a pet supply warehouse.
The effect is real.
When I was laid off in 2001 my manager and the HR people were soooo distraught.
The HR drone that did my exit interview cried... (shades of glenn beck) ... until we got to signing the "No I won't sue you for age discrimination" form and I happened to mention that it would take more than 2 guys with white hair (the CEO and VP of Marketing) to save them if somebody really wanted to sue.
No more tears.
Think pro sports &amp; the effect is the same.
Only the stars (who may or may not be worth the money) remain until they fall apart and can't play anymore.
---
Msot plopee hvae the abilit abiitly to raed ttaol gragabe.
The mian sratem mdiea pvreos tihs dlaiy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893773</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894347</id>
	<title>Most IT people I know also like to...</title>
	<author>jrozzi</author>
	<datestamp>1256723100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cook. Become a chef! It will satisfy your needs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cook .
Become a chef !
It will satisfy your needs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cook.
Become a chef!
It will satisfy your needs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29910407</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>ryzynforce</author>
	<datestamp>1256831460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do not believe you know what you speak of.  You are provided with the tools you need to do your job.  I am awfully sorry that you are no longer allowed to watch YouTube or work on your MySpace/FaceBook page, but those are the breaks.  If you are not one of "those people", the you are the exception...  Not the rule.  However, based upon your previous statement "I'm Less inclined to do my job...", you are the latter and not the former.  Since I speak in general terms, I hope you understand this is a general statment which is often true of most end-users.  Watch YouTube or go to your favorite joke/streaming media sites at home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do not believe you know what you speak of .
You are provided with the tools you need to do your job .
I am awfully sorry that you are no longer allowed to watch YouTube or work on your MySpace/FaceBook page , but those are the breaks .
If you are not one of " those people " , the you are the exception... Not the rule .
However , based upon your previous statement " I 'm Less inclined to do my job... " , you are the latter and not the former .
Since I speak in general terms , I hope you understand this is a general statment which is often true of most end-users .
Watch YouTube or go to your favorite joke/streaming media sites at home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do not believe you know what you speak of.
You are provided with the tools you need to do your job.
I am awfully sorry that you are no longer allowed to watch YouTube or work on your MySpace/FaceBook page, but those are the breaks.
If you are not one of "those people", the you are the exception...  Not the rule.
However, based upon your previous statement "I'm Less inclined to do my job...", you are the latter and not the former.
Since I speak in general terms, I hope you understand this is a general statment which is often true of most end-users.
Watch YouTube or go to your favorite joke/streaming media sites at home.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895225</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894591</id>
	<title>BUSINESS/IT INTERSECTION</title>
	<author>joapowel</author>
	<datestamp>1256727780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems like the two main unknowns are "What career should I look into?" and "How can I enter?"</p><p>A good answer to both of these questions is a graduate business/IS degree.  Going back to school will allow you to take classes in areas where you might otherwise not have experience, and it also gives you access to the critical career services offices which will help you get a job in this economy.  Additionally, choosing a program that teaches both IT management and business principles will allow you to leverage your existing IT knowledge - meaning better job prospects and a better paycheck.</p><p>There are actually relatively few programs that play directly in the intersection of business and IT.  One is the Indiana University Kelley School of Business Masters of Science in Information Systems program (Kelley MSIS).  Another is Carnegie Mellon's MIS program.  At least at the Kelley program, you'll get to take elective MBA classes, placement rates are very high, and faculty are welcoming and personal.  Job prospects run the gamut from program management to management consulting.</p><p>I personally attended the Kelley MSIS program this past year, and next year I will start for a management consulting firm call Bain &amp; Co.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems like the two main unknowns are " What career should I look into ?
" and " How can I enter ?
" A good answer to both of these questions is a graduate business/IS degree .
Going back to school will allow you to take classes in areas where you might otherwise not have experience , and it also gives you access to the critical career services offices which will help you get a job in this economy .
Additionally , choosing a program that teaches both IT management and business principles will allow you to leverage your existing IT knowledge - meaning better job prospects and a better paycheck.There are actually relatively few programs that play directly in the intersection of business and IT .
One is the Indiana University Kelley School of Business Masters of Science in Information Systems program ( Kelley MSIS ) .
Another is Carnegie Mellon 's MIS program .
At least at the Kelley program , you 'll get to take elective MBA classes , placement rates are very high , and faculty are welcoming and personal .
Job prospects run the gamut from program management to management consulting.I personally attended the Kelley MSIS program this past year , and next year I will start for a management consulting firm call Bain &amp; Co .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems like the two main unknowns are "What career should I look into?
" and "How can I enter?
"A good answer to both of these questions is a graduate business/IS degree.
Going back to school will allow you to take classes in areas where you might otherwise not have experience, and it also gives you access to the critical career services offices which will help you get a job in this economy.
Additionally, choosing a program that teaches both IT management and business principles will allow you to leverage your existing IT knowledge - meaning better job prospects and a better paycheck.There are actually relatively few programs that play directly in the intersection of business and IT.
One is the Indiana University Kelley School of Business Masters of Science in Information Systems program (Kelley MSIS).
Another is Carnegie Mellon's MIS program.
At least at the Kelley program, you'll get to take elective MBA classes, placement rates are very high, and faculty are welcoming and personal.
Job prospects run the gamut from program management to management consulting.I personally attended the Kelley MSIS program this past year, and next year I will start for a management consulting firm call Bain &amp; Co.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894217</id>
	<title>I did it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256721240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I worked in IT for 10 years and finally feeling the same way you do now I did go completely cold turkey and started over as a floor maintenance technician. The pay was much less than what I was making in IT but I tell you I really loved cleaning carpets stripping and waxing tile and and acid etching concrete etc etc.(seriously it was fun learning a new field) It was back breaking the chemicals made me sick the boss was a dick the people I worked with were complete slackers but you know I didn't once have to answer the phone or try to explain something technical to some stupid user etc etc. I just went in did my work and went home and played WoW. I did it for almost 2 years then got tired of not using my brain anymore and went back into IT. I am no happier now than I was before but the pay helps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I worked in IT for 10 years and finally feeling the same way you do now I did go completely cold turkey and started over as a floor maintenance technician .
The pay was much less than what I was making in IT but I tell you I really loved cleaning carpets stripping and waxing tile and and acid etching concrete etc etc .
( seriously it was fun learning a new field ) It was back breaking the chemicals made me sick the boss was a dick the people I worked with were complete slackers but you know I did n't once have to answer the phone or try to explain something technical to some stupid user etc etc .
I just went in did my work and went home and played WoW .
I did it for almost 2 years then got tired of not using my brain anymore and went back into IT .
I am no happier now than I was before but the pay helps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worked in IT for 10 years and finally feeling the same way you do now I did go completely cold turkey and started over as a floor maintenance technician.
The pay was much less than what I was making in IT but I tell you I really loved cleaning carpets stripping and waxing tile and and acid etching concrete etc etc.
(seriously it was fun learning a new field) It was back breaking the chemicals made me sick the boss was a dick the people I worked with were complete slackers but you know I didn't once have to answer the phone or try to explain something technical to some stupid user etc etc.
I just went in did my work and went home and played WoW.
I did it for almost 2 years then got tired of not using my brain anymore and went back into IT.
I am no happier now than I was before but the pay helps.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895011</id>
	<title>Engineering for Fun and Profit</title>
	<author>some old guy</author>
	<datestamp>1256732160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Believe it or not, you needn't throw the engineering baby out with the unrewarding specialty bathwater. Got a talent for gadgets? Like to tinker with cool toys? Occasionally actually get dirty? Really blow something up once in awhile? Try looking about in the field, see what industries you might enjoy. I've gone from SCADA design to manufacturing automation, chemical process development, and now I do biotech instrumentation design. Sometimes it takes some guts to jump into a new discipline, but as they say, no guts=no glory.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Believe it or not , you need n't throw the engineering baby out with the unrewarding specialty bathwater .
Got a talent for gadgets ?
Like to tinker with cool toys ?
Occasionally actually get dirty ?
Really blow something up once in awhile ?
Try looking about in the field , see what industries you might enjoy .
I 've gone from SCADA design to manufacturing automation , chemical process development , and now I do biotech instrumentation design .
Sometimes it takes some guts to jump into a new discipline , but as they say , no guts = no glory .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Believe it or not, you needn't throw the engineering baby out with the unrewarding specialty bathwater.
Got a talent for gadgets?
Like to tinker with cool toys?
Occasionally actually get dirty?
Really blow something up once in awhile?
Try looking about in the field, see what industries you might enjoy.
I've gone from SCADA design to manufacturing automation, chemical process development, and now I do biotech instrumentation design.
Sometimes it takes some guts to jump into a new discipline, but as they say, no guts=no glory.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29904857</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256737200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm in that boat too. I don't blame my parents though. Future people will not look back and loath us as they will loath many of the others.<br>This is an excellent<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. story for a change.<br>I deeply wanted to travel so I got out after only about 21/2 years total in IT - I had manouvered myself into a niche position that didn't offer vertical or indeed horizontal shuffle and was surrounded by 'the dark sarcasm in the classroom' of the other departments where the rest of them engaged in assassinating each others character to get ahead and move to the next level.<br>It was interesting in that I could observe their behaviour and see for myself just why I didn't want to stay. I moved abroad to teach English in Asia.<br>Turned out to be a mistake really after 4 years I think but no regrets, as there were some plus sides. I travelled a lot and saw some great things.<br>If I was in that situation again, and knew I had to travel I would not have gone to Asia though - no way. Actually, I would have gone to the west coast of  the good'ol US, maybe Portland Oregon or northern Cali - San Jose or San Fran. I'd been to Chicago before but it was too far from the ocean for me.. But alas it's too late for more adventures and I'm stuck in muddy Ireland for the moment. I'm single with no debts, but only modest savings. I'll leave Ireland again in all likelihood, as I don't want anything to do with this new EU takeover that's coming. Thinking about Chile!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in that boat too .
I do n't blame my parents though .
Future people will not look back and loath us as they will loath many of the others.This is an excellent / .
story for a change.I deeply wanted to travel so I got out after only about 21/2 years total in IT - I had manouvered myself into a niche position that did n't offer vertical or indeed horizontal shuffle and was surrounded by 'the dark sarcasm in the classroom ' of the other departments where the rest of them engaged in assassinating each others character to get ahead and move to the next level.It was interesting in that I could observe their behaviour and see for myself just why I did n't want to stay .
I moved abroad to teach English in Asia.Turned out to be a mistake really after 4 years I think but no regrets , as there were some plus sides .
I travelled a lot and saw some great things.If I was in that situation again , and knew I had to travel I would not have gone to Asia though - no way .
Actually , I would have gone to the west coast of the good'ol US , maybe Portland Oregon or northern Cali - San Jose or San Fran .
I 'd been to Chicago before but it was too far from the ocean for me.. But alas it 's too late for more adventures and I 'm stuck in muddy Ireland for the moment .
I 'm single with no debts , but only modest savings .
I 'll leave Ireland again in all likelihood , as I do n't want anything to do with this new EU takeover that 's coming .
Thinking about Chile !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in that boat too.
I don't blame my parents though.
Future people will not look back and loath us as they will loath many of the others.This is an excellent /.
story for a change.I deeply wanted to travel so I got out after only about 21/2 years total in IT - I had manouvered myself into a niche position that didn't offer vertical or indeed horizontal shuffle and was surrounded by 'the dark sarcasm in the classroom' of the other departments where the rest of them engaged in assassinating each others character to get ahead and move to the next level.It was interesting in that I could observe their behaviour and see for myself just why I didn't want to stay.
I moved abroad to teach English in Asia.Turned out to be a mistake really after 4 years I think but no regrets, as there were some plus sides.
I travelled a lot and saw some great things.If I was in that situation again, and knew I had to travel I would not have gone to Asia though - no way.
Actually, I would have gone to the west coast of  the good'ol US, maybe Portland Oregon or northern Cali - San Jose or San Fran.
I'd been to Chicago before but it was too far from the ocean for me.. But alas it's too late for more adventures and I'm stuck in muddy Ireland for the moment.
I'm single with no debts, but only modest savings.
I'll leave Ireland again in all likelihood, as I don't want anything to do with this new EU takeover that's coming.
Thinking about Chile!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894361</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29904999</id>
	<title>Enjoy or hate</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256737920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fairly simple: you either like your job or you don't. If you like doing what you do, you will be happy with outcomes of your work. You don't, then it must be hard for you to actually achieve anything in your line of work.</p><p>If you're not happy doing what you do (blame your boss, management, environment, etc), you better pack up quick and find yourself an environment that you fit.</p><p>Happy? Continue doing what you do, improve as much as you can and enjoy.</p><p>Enjoy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fairly simple : you either like your job or you do n't .
If you like doing what you do , you will be happy with outcomes of your work .
You do n't , then it must be hard for you to actually achieve anything in your line of work.If you 're not happy doing what you do ( blame your boss , management , environment , etc ) , you better pack up quick and find yourself an environment that you fit.Happy ?
Continue doing what you do , improve as much as you can and enjoy.Enjoy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fairly simple: you either like your job or you don't.
If you like doing what you do, you will be happy with outcomes of your work.
You don't, then it must be hard for you to actually achieve anything in your line of work.If you're not happy doing what you do (blame your boss, management, environment, etc), you better pack up quick and find yourself an environment that you fit.Happy?
Continue doing what you do, improve as much as you can and enjoy.Enjoy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898145</id>
	<title>Re:SciOps</title>
	<author>EvilBudMan</author>
	<datestamp>1256748060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>--Cons:<br>You'll never hear anyone talking about crazy dot-edu or dot-org pay.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)--</p><p>How exactly is this a con? Most of the talk about crazy pay, we'll was just crazy.</p><p>--The survival of your job depends in part on survival of their funding.--</p><p>This one is definitely something to think about but the rest of your cons seem like pros to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>--Cons : You 'll never hear anyone talking about crazy dot-edu or dot-org pay .
; ) --How exactly is this a con ?
Most of the talk about crazy pay , we 'll was just crazy.--The survival of your job depends in part on survival of their funding.--This one is definitely something to think about but the rest of your cons seem like pros to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>--Cons:You'll never hear anyone talking about crazy dot-edu or dot-org pay.
;)--How exactly is this a con?
Most of the talk about crazy pay, we'll was just crazy.--The survival of your job depends in part on survival of their funding.--This one is definitely something to think about but the rest of your cons seem like pros to me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893771</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894873</id>
	<title>Re:Getting old in IT is the kiss of death.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256730600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <b>How is it that our field is the only one where the older you get, the more worthless you are perceived as being?</b></p> </div><p>IMHO, this will change once the generations that grew up with computers start getting older and graying...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How is it that our field is the only one where the older you get , the more worthless you are perceived as being ?
IMHO , this will change once the generations that grew up with computers start getting older and graying.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> How is it that our field is the only one where the older you get, the more worthless you are perceived as being?
IMHO, this will change once the generations that grew up with computers start getting older and graying...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893773</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895755</id>
	<title>Re:Very timely...</title>
	<author>shentino</author>
	<datestamp>1256738100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get back to us when your chicks have finally hatched.  I wish you the best of luck though.</p><p>Keep your guard high, and your hopes even higher.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get back to us when your chicks have finally hatched .
I wish you the best of luck though.Keep your guard high , and your hopes even higher .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get back to us when your chicks have finally hatched.
I wish you the best of luck though.Keep your guard high, and your hopes even higher.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894159</id>
	<title>Went postal</title>
	<author>HBSorensen</author>
	<datestamp>1256763540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hi</p><p>I had a brief ( 3-4 years ) where I left the IT business and worked as an independent security contractor.</p><p>Now, I'm back in the IT business..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>HiI had a brief ( 3-4 years ) where I left the IT business and worked as an independent security contractor.Now , I 'm back in the IT business. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HiI had a brief ( 3-4 years ) where I left the IT business and worked as an independent security contractor.Now, I'm back in the IT business..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894109</id>
	<title>As a rot in the IT field ...  I got sickened ...</title>
	<author>freaker\_TuC</author>
	<datestamp>1256762940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been working for over 15 years with computers; whereof almost 12 years straight in the company which my business partner and me created before. Somewhere trust has broken, I've been working for over 16hr/day mostly and got paid (almost) nothing. I've tried to launch a lot of projects (wouldn't lie if I'd say a dozen of them) to be able to get possibilities to be paid but, every new idea got rejected; even when I had a proof-of-concept ready and running<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>I was nothing better for him than a webdesigner, programmer and server/security maintainer <b>ONLY</b> when I was needed. My extra professions around programming barely got touched. Needless to say; I resigned from this company where I felt to be part of it and currently I'm searching for a new job. Basically my life got wasted for over almost 12 years<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. for what?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. nothing!</p><p>Do I feel good with this? I don't know. Dreams are dreams and reality is reality. Still, it's nice to follow your dream and not end up in a nightmare. IT has been sickened over the last 12 years for me, I don't really have ANY motivation left to stay in the field of programming, design and server administration.</p><p>Probably I'll program for myself, maybe I'll later pick up a project or two to program for others; but the real motivational drift to program hours and days in a row seems to be sour since I've lost my trust in that one which I worked together with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....</p><p>Maybe the best advice I can give; if you are having the same legal system as we got in Belgium; NEVER start a business with TWO; do it either alone or with three or get locked into situations you -so totally- don't want to be in!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been working for over 15 years with computers ; whereof almost 12 years straight in the company which my business partner and me created before .
Somewhere trust has broken , I 've been working for over 16hr/day mostly and got paid ( almost ) nothing .
I 've tried to launch a lot of projects ( would n't lie if I 'd say a dozen of them ) to be able to get possibilities to be paid but , every new idea got rejected ; even when I had a proof-of-concept ready and running ...I was nothing better for him than a webdesigner , programmer and server/security maintainer ONLY when I was needed .
My extra professions around programming barely got touched .
Needless to say ; I resigned from this company where I felt to be part of it and currently I 'm searching for a new job .
Basically my life got wasted for over almost 12 years .. for what ?
.. nothing ! Do I feel good with this ?
I do n't know .
Dreams are dreams and reality is reality .
Still , it 's nice to follow your dream and not end up in a nightmare .
IT has been sickened over the last 12 years for me , I do n't really have ANY motivation left to stay in the field of programming , design and server administration.Probably I 'll program for myself , maybe I 'll later pick up a project or two to program for others ; but the real motivational drift to program hours and days in a row seems to be sour since I 've lost my trust in that one which I worked together with ....Maybe the best advice I can give ; if you are having the same legal system as we got in Belgium ; NEVER start a business with TWO ; do it either alone or with three or get locked into situations you -so totally- do n't want to be in !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been working for over 15 years with computers; whereof almost 12 years straight in the company which my business partner and me created before.
Somewhere trust has broken, I've been working for over 16hr/day mostly and got paid (almost) nothing.
I've tried to launch a lot of projects (wouldn't lie if I'd say a dozen of them) to be able to get possibilities to be paid but, every new idea got rejected; even when I had a proof-of-concept ready and running ...I was nothing better for him than a webdesigner, programmer and server/security maintainer ONLY when I was needed.
My extra professions around programming barely got touched.
Needless to say; I resigned from this company where I felt to be part of it and currently I'm searching for a new job.
Basically my life got wasted for over almost 12 years .. for what?
.. nothing!Do I feel good with this?
I don't know.
Dreams are dreams and reality is reality.
Still, it's nice to follow your dream and not end up in a nightmare.
IT has been sickened over the last 12 years for me, I don't really have ANY motivation left to stay in the field of programming, design and server administration.Probably I'll program for myself, maybe I'll later pick up a project or two to program for others; but the real motivational drift to program hours and days in a row seems to be sour since I've lost my trust in that one which I worked together with ....Maybe the best advice I can give; if you are having the same legal system as we got in Belgium; NEVER start a business with TWO; do it either alone or with three or get locked into situations you -so totally- don't want to be in!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29911481</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256835480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Didn't high school teach you that jocks run the world?</p></div><p>So the current situation is the "Revenge of the Jocks" who couldn't accept the "Revenge of the Nerds" mentality that had prevailed.</p><p>It's no longer good to be a geek anymore. The jocks want the cheerleaders back.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did n't high school teach you that jocks run the world ? So the current situation is the " Revenge of the Jocks " who could n't accept the " Revenge of the Nerds " mentality that had prevailed.It 's no longer good to be a geek anymore .
The jocks want the cheerleaders back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Didn't high school teach you that jocks run the world?So the current situation is the "Revenge of the Jocks" who couldn't accept the "Revenge of the Nerds" mentality that had prevailed.It's no longer good to be a geek anymore.
The jocks want the cheerleaders back.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894361</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29903047</id>
	<title>Re:Allow me to summarize</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256726640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't look at me. I've been trying to figure out where to get the fuck out to for about 4 or 5 years now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't look at me .
I 've been trying to figure out where to get the fuck out to for about 4 or 5 years now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't look at me.
I've been trying to figure out where to get the fuck out to for about 4 or 5 years now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902883</id>
	<title>Re:Very timely...</title>
	<author>twokay</author>
	<datestamp>1256725800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That sounds awesome, i did something similar a little while ago, quit an (IT) job i was getting bored in. I chose to leave, got a different job with less hours while i planned some time away traveling. Right now is probably not the best time to be quitting a job unless you really feel you have to. But in a situation with more opportunities, people should take the risk.
<br>
<br>
One of the reasons i quit was "computer overload", i was spending work and spare time thinking about computers; and the job i was in was pretty varied as far as IT jobs go (i wasn't in front of a terminal all day).
<br>
<br>
I'm looking for a job now, and after having had a break i actually have enthusiasm for IT work again. Hopefully i can find a place at a small business, I've never felt i would get on in a large corporation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That sounds awesome , i did something similar a little while ago , quit an ( IT ) job i was getting bored in .
I chose to leave , got a different job with less hours while i planned some time away traveling .
Right now is probably not the best time to be quitting a job unless you really feel you have to .
But in a situation with more opportunities , people should take the risk .
One of the reasons i quit was " computer overload " , i was spending work and spare time thinking about computers ; and the job i was in was pretty varied as far as IT jobs go ( i was n't in front of a terminal all day ) .
I 'm looking for a job now , and after having had a break i actually have enthusiasm for IT work again .
Hopefully i can find a place at a small business , I 've never felt i would get on in a large corporation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That sounds awesome, i did something similar a little while ago, quit an (IT) job i was getting bored in.
I chose to leave, got a different job with less hours while i planned some time away traveling.
Right now is probably not the best time to be quitting a job unless you really feel you have to.
But in a situation with more opportunities, people should take the risk.
One of the reasons i quit was "computer overload", i was spending work and spare time thinking about computers; and the job i was in was pretty varied as far as IT jobs go (i wasn't in front of a terminal all day).
I'm looking for a job now, and after having had a break i actually have enthusiasm for IT work again.
Hopefully i can find a place at a small business, I've never felt i would get on in a large corporation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894635</id>
	<title>It is hard to compete in the IT field unless</title>
	<author>LukeCrawford</author>
	<datestamp>1256728080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you are really into it.  You are competing with people who are essentially willing to do it for free, either because we are that into it, or because we lack the interpersonal skills to do anything else (sometimes, a little of both)</p><p>That said, it sounds like you have a bigger problem with your bosses than with the IT field.  there are places in IT that have good bosses, and it makes all the difference in the world.   When I was a youngster, I  got a bad boss once, and I, too decided I was leaving IT. I took a month off and a road trip to decide what I wanted to do, but when I was done with that, I got another IT job, one with a decent manager.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you are really into it .
You are competing with people who are essentially willing to do it for free , either because we are that into it , or because we lack the interpersonal skills to do anything else ( sometimes , a little of both ) That said , it sounds like you have a bigger problem with your bosses than with the IT field .
there are places in IT that have good bosses , and it makes all the difference in the world .
When I was a youngster , I got a bad boss once , and I , too decided I was leaving IT .
I took a month off and a road trip to decide what I wanted to do , but when I was done with that , I got another IT job , one with a decent manager .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you are really into it.
You are competing with people who are essentially willing to do it for free, either because we are that into it, or because we lack the interpersonal skills to do anything else (sometimes, a little of both)That said, it sounds like you have a bigger problem with your bosses than with the IT field.
there are places in IT that have good bosses, and it makes all the difference in the world.
When I was a youngster, I  got a bad boss once, and I, too decided I was leaving IT.
I took a month off and a road trip to decide what I wanted to do, but when I was done with that, I got another IT job, one with a decent manager.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893729</id>
	<title>QA</title>
	<author>FranTaylor</author>
	<datestamp>1256671620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I moved from development to QA a few years ago.   Pay is similar, much less hassle.</p><p>Hey if you have a reputation for being critical and picky, why not get paid for it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I moved from development to QA a few years ago .
Pay is similar , much less hassle.Hey if you have a reputation for being critical and picky , why not get paid for it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I moved from development to QA a few years ago.
Pay is similar, much less hassle.Hey if you have a reputation for being critical and picky, why not get paid for it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896781</id>
	<title>Re:Out of the frying pan, and into the fire</title>
	<author>GrayCalx</author>
	<datestamp>1256742720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A very positive read.  I live in a small town and while I telecommute and get paid a good wage, I'm entirely burnt out on developing software and configuring off-the-shelf software.  I daydream about going out on my own to something similar to your bakery, its very encouraging to me that you've been successful.  Congratulations and continued success.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A very positive read .
I live in a small town and while I telecommute and get paid a good wage , I 'm entirely burnt out on developing software and configuring off-the-shelf software .
I daydream about going out on my own to something similar to your bakery , its very encouraging to me that you 've been successful .
Congratulations and continued success .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A very positive read.
I live in a small town and while I telecommute and get paid a good wage, I'm entirely burnt out on developing software and configuring off-the-shelf software.
I daydream about going out on my own to something similar to your bakery, its very encouraging to me that you've been successful.
Congratulations and continued success.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893591</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897289</id>
	<title>Re:OK how do you get jobs like this?</title>
	<author>EvilBudMan</author>
	<datestamp>1256744700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My brother got into IT being unqualified. He had an electronics degree and some luck and back then probably the only training you could get was to train yourself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My brother got into IT being unqualified .
He had an electronics degree and some luck and back then probably the only training you could get was to train yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My brother got into IT being unqualified.
He had an electronics degree and some luck and back then probably the only training you could get was to train yourself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893621</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898081</id>
	<title>Look for a book</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256747760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I recommend a book called "Do What you Are" by Paul Tieger.<br>It does not answer what job should a take, but it focuses your personality to what careers you will be succesfull with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I recommend a book called " Do What you Are " by Paul Tieger.It does not answer what job should a take , but it focuses your personality to what careers you will be succesfull with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recommend a book called "Do What you Are" by Paul Tieger.It does not answer what job should a take, but it focuses your personality to what careers you will be succesfull with.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.30057672</id>
	<title>Re:Allow me to summarize</title>
	<author>mahadiga</author>
	<datestamp>1257069480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And
<ul>
<li>Elicit Business Requirements</li><li>Design Technical Solutions</li><li>Coordinate Porject Activities</li></ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>And Elicit Business RequirementsDesign Technical SolutionsCoordinate Porject Activities</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And

Elicit Business RequirementsDesign Technical SolutionsCoordinate Porject Activities</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898031</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256747520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unions are a good thing? Really? Ask the 200 union workers who voted NOT to accept what the company was offering down in Georgetown SC at the Steel Mill. The mill is closed and 200 people are out of work completely. Sure, they're getting Sub Pay and Unemployment for at LEAST another year, but there are unconfirmed rumors from the Company through the Union that the mill will remain closed through 2011.</p><p>One of the major problems with Unions is that they help create an 'entitlement' mentality in the workforce. They protect incompetent and (for want of a better term) lazy workers with contracts and draconian rules companies must follow with regard to employee termination. They set 'rules' for wage increases that the company must follow--even in times of economic impact like the one we are under where the Union employees get wage increases, while the rest of of the staff doesn't. Raises are built into the contract, the Union Workers don't have to do anything to get them. I prefer to be rewarded for a 'job well done' than be rewarded for just being there. I'm not 'entitled' to anything from the company I work for--I actually owe them (because of my faith, I work for God in reality, so I'm giving my best to Him) and am always striving to show them my best by improving constantly.</p><p>Before you flame me; I grew up in Anderson, IN. That town USED to be a major hub for General Motors (all gone now). I watched Union Workers get paid to sit outside most of the day and do NOTHING because they had easily met the 'quota' they needed to meet and could do as they pleased---because the contract SAID they could. I watched Union workers effectively steal from the company by coming home at lunch time--especially during football season and basketball season and boxing season--but not go back in, or worse--get clocked in and out on 'mandatory overtime' and be at home. How? because their 'buddies' would clock them in and out. These same workers would get caught time and time again and still keep their jobs because the Unions protected them. I watched guys collect full pay while being 'laid off' because it was part of the 'contract'.</p><p>Oh yeah..Unions are good alright...why do you think that once the gates came down, companies began outsourcing jobs as quick as they could? Yes, the labor was cheaper, but they knew they could at least depend on their workforce; because they are happy to be there.  </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unions are a good thing ?
Really ? Ask the 200 union workers who voted NOT to accept what the company was offering down in Georgetown SC at the Steel Mill .
The mill is closed and 200 people are out of work completely .
Sure , they 're getting Sub Pay and Unemployment for at LEAST another year , but there are unconfirmed rumors from the Company through the Union that the mill will remain closed through 2011.One of the major problems with Unions is that they help create an 'entitlement ' mentality in the workforce .
They protect incompetent and ( for want of a better term ) lazy workers with contracts and draconian rules companies must follow with regard to employee termination .
They set 'rules ' for wage increases that the company must follow--even in times of economic impact like the one we are under where the Union employees get wage increases , while the rest of of the staff does n't .
Raises are built into the contract , the Union Workers do n't have to do anything to get them .
I prefer to be rewarded for a 'job well done ' than be rewarded for just being there .
I 'm not 'entitled ' to anything from the company I work for--I actually owe them ( because of my faith , I work for God in reality , so I 'm giving my best to Him ) and am always striving to show them my best by improving constantly.Before you flame me ; I grew up in Anderson , IN .
That town USED to be a major hub for General Motors ( all gone now ) .
I watched Union Workers get paid to sit outside most of the day and do NOTHING because they had easily met the 'quota ' they needed to meet and could do as they pleased---because the contract SAID they could .
I watched Union workers effectively steal from the company by coming home at lunch time--especially during football season and basketball season and boxing season--but not go back in , or worse--get clocked in and out on 'mandatory overtime ' and be at home .
How ? because their 'buddies ' would clock them in and out .
These same workers would get caught time and time again and still keep their jobs because the Unions protected them .
I watched guys collect full pay while being 'laid off ' because it was part of the 'contract'.Oh yeah..Unions are good alright...why do you think that once the gates came down , companies began outsourcing jobs as quick as they could ?
Yes , the labor was cheaper , but they knew they could at least depend on their workforce ; because they are happy to be there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unions are a good thing?
Really? Ask the 200 union workers who voted NOT to accept what the company was offering down in Georgetown SC at the Steel Mill.
The mill is closed and 200 people are out of work completely.
Sure, they're getting Sub Pay and Unemployment for at LEAST another year, but there are unconfirmed rumors from the Company through the Union that the mill will remain closed through 2011.One of the major problems with Unions is that they help create an 'entitlement' mentality in the workforce.
They protect incompetent and (for want of a better term) lazy workers with contracts and draconian rules companies must follow with regard to employee termination.
They set 'rules' for wage increases that the company must follow--even in times of economic impact like the one we are under where the Union employees get wage increases, while the rest of of the staff doesn't.
Raises are built into the contract, the Union Workers don't have to do anything to get them.
I prefer to be rewarded for a 'job well done' than be rewarded for just being there.
I'm not 'entitled' to anything from the company I work for--I actually owe them (because of my faith, I work for God in reality, so I'm giving my best to Him) and am always striving to show them my best by improving constantly.Before you flame me; I grew up in Anderson, IN.
That town USED to be a major hub for General Motors (all gone now).
I watched Union Workers get paid to sit outside most of the day and do NOTHING because they had easily met the 'quota' they needed to meet and could do as they pleased---because the contract SAID they could.
I watched Union workers effectively steal from the company by coming home at lunch time--especially during football season and basketball season and boxing season--but not go back in, or worse--get clocked in and out on 'mandatory overtime' and be at home.
How? because their 'buddies' would clock them in and out.
These same workers would get caught time and time again and still keep their jobs because the Unions protected them.
I watched guys collect full pay while being 'laid off' because it was part of the 'contract'.Oh yeah..Unions are good alright...why do you think that once the gates came down, companies began outsourcing jobs as quick as they could?
Yes, the labor was cheaper, but they knew they could at least depend on their workforce; because they are happy to be there.  </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894669</id>
	<title>Re:Why not Farming itself?</title>
	<author>Stupid Crunt</author>
	<datestamp>1256728440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's hard work.  I spent two weeks working on a sheep farm.  12 hour days, very physical work.  Not to mention living in a state of constant sexual exhaustion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's hard work .
I spent two weeks working on a sheep farm .
12 hour days , very physical work .
Not to mention living in a state of constant sexual exhaustion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's hard work.
I spent two weeks working on a sheep farm.
12 hour days, very physical work.
Not to mention living in a state of constant sexual exhaustion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893977</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893975</id>
	<title>IT - bus drving - School teacher</title>
	<author>zedsonata</author>
	<datestamp>1256760960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was in the IT industry for more than 6 years from when I left high school.

I also became sick of the crap involved with the customers within that field of work so I decided to go back to uni to become a teacher. While I was at uni I also trained to become a bus driver (this only took 2 weeks) and was employed straight away as a city bus driver part time.

During my 4 years at uni I spent 3 years as a bus driver, but in my last year of uni I had to spend much more time on my course work, so I left bus driving and retrained over my uni break to become a carer of disabled people. This job lasted the whole year I was at uni and I was promoted from a carer to an activities co-ordinator in that time over people who had been carers for 15+ years.

I think IT peoples reasoning and logic skills plus the fact that on average we are smarter than the average worker enables us to move very easily in to 'lower' jobs. I found that bus driving and my work with the disabled was extremely enjoyable, and the pay while a bit less than working in IT was very easy to live off, even though I was only a part time worker.

Now I am a teacher I have spent 1 year teaching primary school in Australia, and now I have moved to South Korea, home of the stupidly fast internet speeds that I could only ever dream about, and I'm teaching English here. I'll be going back to Australia at the end of this year and continuing to teach in a government primary school.

The kids in Australia and Korea love me because I will play computer games with them, also I am teaching them the logic and reasoning skills that most of us IT people (or ex IT people) take for granted so my kids often get test scores noticeably higher than other classes.

I really think that moving to the three other jobs, 1 un-skilled, 1 semi-skilled, and finally the last one skilled, has been the greatest thing I have ever done in my life and I would recommend any IT person who is thinking of getting out to just do it!

As I said, IT people bring a unique set of skills to any job and no matter what the job I think you will find your self getting promoted much quicker than the average person.

6 years ago if you had of told me I was going to drive buses, look after disabled people, and then become a teacher, I would have thought you where crazy!

Today my life is much richer for the interesting people (and not angry smegg heads who just want me to fix their stupid computer NOW) I have met and the new skills that I never thought I could possibly learn.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was in the IT industry for more than 6 years from when I left high school .
I also became sick of the crap involved with the customers within that field of work so I decided to go back to uni to become a teacher .
While I was at uni I also trained to become a bus driver ( this only took 2 weeks ) and was employed straight away as a city bus driver part time .
During my 4 years at uni I spent 3 years as a bus driver , but in my last year of uni I had to spend much more time on my course work , so I left bus driving and retrained over my uni break to become a carer of disabled people .
This job lasted the whole year I was at uni and I was promoted from a carer to an activities co-ordinator in that time over people who had been carers for 15 + years .
I think IT peoples reasoning and logic skills plus the fact that on average we are smarter than the average worker enables us to move very easily in to 'lower ' jobs .
I found that bus driving and my work with the disabled was extremely enjoyable , and the pay while a bit less than working in IT was very easy to live off , even though I was only a part time worker .
Now I am a teacher I have spent 1 year teaching primary school in Australia , and now I have moved to South Korea , home of the stupidly fast internet speeds that I could only ever dream about , and I 'm teaching English here .
I 'll be going back to Australia at the end of this year and continuing to teach in a government primary school .
The kids in Australia and Korea love me because I will play computer games with them , also I am teaching them the logic and reasoning skills that most of us IT people ( or ex IT people ) take for granted so my kids often get test scores noticeably higher than other classes .
I really think that moving to the three other jobs , 1 un-skilled , 1 semi-skilled , and finally the last one skilled , has been the greatest thing I have ever done in my life and I would recommend any IT person who is thinking of getting out to just do it !
As I said , IT people bring a unique set of skills to any job and no matter what the job I think you will find your self getting promoted much quicker than the average person .
6 years ago if you had of told me I was going to drive buses , look after disabled people , and then become a teacher , I would have thought you where crazy !
Today my life is much richer for the interesting people ( and not angry smegg heads who just want me to fix their stupid computer NOW ) I have met and the new skills that I never thought I could possibly learn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was in the IT industry for more than 6 years from when I left high school.
I also became sick of the crap involved with the customers within that field of work so I decided to go back to uni to become a teacher.
While I was at uni I also trained to become a bus driver (this only took 2 weeks) and was employed straight away as a city bus driver part time.
During my 4 years at uni I spent 3 years as a bus driver, but in my last year of uni I had to spend much more time on my course work, so I left bus driving and retrained over my uni break to become a carer of disabled people.
This job lasted the whole year I was at uni and I was promoted from a carer to an activities co-ordinator in that time over people who had been carers for 15+ years.
I think IT peoples reasoning and logic skills plus the fact that on average we are smarter than the average worker enables us to move very easily in to 'lower' jobs.
I found that bus driving and my work with the disabled was extremely enjoyable, and the pay while a bit less than working in IT was very easy to live off, even though I was only a part time worker.
Now I am a teacher I have spent 1 year teaching primary school in Australia, and now I have moved to South Korea, home of the stupidly fast internet speeds that I could only ever dream about, and I'm teaching English here.
I'll be going back to Australia at the end of this year and continuing to teach in a government primary school.
The kids in Australia and Korea love me because I will play computer games with them, also I am teaching them the logic and reasoning skills that most of us IT people (or ex IT people) take for granted so my kids often get test scores noticeably higher than other classes.
I really think that moving to the three other jobs, 1 un-skilled, 1 semi-skilled, and finally the last one skilled, has been the greatest thing I have ever done in my life and I would recommend any IT person who is thinking of getting out to just do it!
As I said, IT people bring a unique set of skills to any job and no matter what the job I think you will find your self getting promoted much quicker than the average person.
6 years ago if you had of told me I was going to drive buses, look after disabled people, and then become a teacher, I would have thought you where crazy!
Today my life is much richer for the interesting people (and not angry smegg heads who just want me to fix their stupid computer NOW) I have met and the new skills that I never thought I could possibly learn.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902351</id>
	<title>Wake up!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256722980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So much pessimism here.  I am one of the traditional IT guys too - knee deep in code and staring at shell prompts for years.  Outsourcing hit hard, then harder, and soon a bunch of 1/6 my pay hard-to-understand guys took all our work - (well we gave it to them, that was part of the job too)</p><p>But the world is still running on IT.  The US is primarily moving towards an information economy (manufacturing / etc. is dead with GM/etc.).  Most of the people posting or reading here know how to start a web site.  Possibly take credit cards online.  Sell something, hell thats what we did for years cause we were told to.</p><p>Just get your head out of the sand, quit crying, get a website (4$ a month for unlimited everything nowadays?) and start a business.  People forget the opportunities they have.  One friend of my went into 'handheld data acquisition technologies'. He wrote software for palm pilot-like thingies that fed data to a LAMP.  Living very well now.  Others just sold their skills - web developers.</p><p>Some are just lazy, cry, and gave up... think about it.  Things may be tougher but you're likely not living in a 3rd world country, (yet). So suck it up!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So much pessimism here .
I am one of the traditional IT guys too - knee deep in code and staring at shell prompts for years .
Outsourcing hit hard , then harder , and soon a bunch of 1/6 my pay hard-to-understand guys took all our work - ( well we gave it to them , that was part of the job too ) But the world is still running on IT .
The US is primarily moving towards an information economy ( manufacturing / etc .
is dead with GM/etc. ) .
Most of the people posting or reading here know how to start a web site .
Possibly take credit cards online .
Sell something , hell thats what we did for years cause we were told to.Just get your head out of the sand , quit crying , get a website ( 4 $ a month for unlimited everything nowadays ?
) and start a business .
People forget the opportunities they have .
One friend of my went into 'handheld data acquisition technologies' .
He wrote software for palm pilot-like thingies that fed data to a LAMP .
Living very well now .
Others just sold their skills - web developers.Some are just lazy , cry , and gave up... think about it .
Things may be tougher but you 're likely not living in a 3rd world country , ( yet ) .
So suck it up !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So much pessimism here.
I am one of the traditional IT guys too - knee deep in code and staring at shell prompts for years.
Outsourcing hit hard, then harder, and soon a bunch of 1/6 my pay hard-to-understand guys took all our work - (well we gave it to them, that was part of the job too)But the world is still running on IT.
The US is primarily moving towards an information economy (manufacturing / etc.
is dead with GM/etc.).
Most of the people posting or reading here know how to start a web site.
Possibly take credit cards online.
Sell something, hell thats what we did for years cause we were told to.Just get your head out of the sand, quit crying, get a website (4$ a month for unlimited everything nowadays?
) and start a business.
People forget the opportunities they have.
One friend of my went into 'handheld data acquisition technologies'.
He wrote software for palm pilot-like thingies that fed data to a LAMP.
Living very well now.
Others just sold their skills - web developers.Some are just lazy, cry, and gave up... think about it.
Things may be tougher but you're likely not living in a 3rd world country, (yet).
So suck it up!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898065</id>
	<title>Re:Very timely...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256747700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now THAT is a great plan. I did something  very similar, taking 3 years off from my supposed information security "career" to travel the world. When I returned to the states, I had discovered that all I really wanted to do was to leave again. I am now working again in information security, but my goals and values have completely changed. If I get fired from this job, I absolutely do not care, since that would mean another extended trip. And if you don't care whether or not you get fired, then many work-related worries magically go away. I completely agree with most of the postings here that IT careers really do suck, but that really only matters if you attempting to get something out of it in addition to the money. I used to care about the actual security work. Now it's just a job, and its much better that way. Every paycheck is worth to me about 2 additional months of future travel, and that's good enough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now THAT is a great plan .
I did something very similar , taking 3 years off from my supposed information security " career " to travel the world .
When I returned to the states , I had discovered that all I really wanted to do was to leave again .
I am now working again in information security , but my goals and values have completely changed .
If I get fired from this job , I absolutely do not care , since that would mean another extended trip .
And if you do n't care whether or not you get fired , then many work-related worries magically go away .
I completely agree with most of the postings here that IT careers really do suck , but that really only matters if you attempting to get something out of it in addition to the money .
I used to care about the actual security work .
Now it 's just a job , and its much better that way .
Every paycheck is worth to me about 2 additional months of future travel , and that 's good enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now THAT is a great plan.
I did something  very similar, taking 3 years off from my supposed information security "career" to travel the world.
When I returned to the states, I had discovered that all I really wanted to do was to leave again.
I am now working again in information security, but my goals and values have completely changed.
If I get fired from this job, I absolutely do not care, since that would mean another extended trip.
And if you don't care whether or not you get fired, then many work-related worries magically go away.
I completely agree with most of the postings here that IT careers really do suck, but that really only matters if you attempting to get something out of it in addition to the money.
I used to care about the actual security work.
Now it's just a job, and its much better that way.
Every paycheck is worth to me about 2 additional months of future travel, and that's good enough.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256671440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Simple: there are too many in IT who actually believe in the philosophy of "Atlas Shrugged" - a race-to-the-bottom, out-compete-each-other-for-the-good-of-mankind philosophy.</p><p>Ayn Rand and the army of philosophical libertarians in the U.S. whose intellect (required to understand the philosophy and economics behind it) naturally puts them in positions of influence and power via which these ideas are implemented (example: Alan Greenspan, a deep fan of Rand), along with the army of free-market economists who use their own work as faux-empirical justification for libertarian economic policies, NEVER talk about the humanitarian downsides of a hyper-competitive feedback loop/death-spiral...  except to mock them in "Atlas Shrugged" (America's second most-influential book after the Bible, according to one survey conducted in the early 1990s).</p><p>I say this as a slowly-recovering right-libertarian (and developer) myself, turned moderate left-libertarian.</p><p>We in IT have cut our own personal income profit margins and raised our hours in an attempt to out-compete each other; we've raised the bar year after year on ourselves.  We have, in short, cut our own throats.  We now, and increasingly-moreso, live in the cutthroat environment we (and admittedly, I) have so often advocated.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Simple : there are too many in IT who actually believe in the philosophy of " Atlas Shrugged " - a race-to-the-bottom , out-compete-each-other-for-the-good-of-mankind philosophy.Ayn Rand and the army of philosophical libertarians in the U.S. whose intellect ( required to understand the philosophy and economics behind it ) naturally puts them in positions of influence and power via which these ideas are implemented ( example : Alan Greenspan , a deep fan of Rand ) , along with the army of free-market economists who use their own work as faux-empirical justification for libertarian economic policies , NEVER talk about the humanitarian downsides of a hyper-competitive feedback loop/death-spiral... except to mock them in " Atlas Shrugged " ( America 's second most-influential book after the Bible , according to one survey conducted in the early 1990s ) .I say this as a slowly-recovering right-libertarian ( and developer ) myself , turned moderate left-libertarian.We in IT have cut our own personal income profit margins and raised our hours in an attempt to out-compete each other ; we 've raised the bar year after year on ourselves .
We have , in short , cut our own throats .
We now , and increasingly-moreso , live in the cutthroat environment we ( and admittedly , I ) have so often advocated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Simple: there are too many in IT who actually believe in the philosophy of "Atlas Shrugged" - a race-to-the-bottom, out-compete-each-other-for-the-good-of-mankind philosophy.Ayn Rand and the army of philosophical libertarians in the U.S. whose intellect (required to understand the philosophy and economics behind it) naturally puts them in positions of influence and power via which these ideas are implemented (example: Alan Greenspan, a deep fan of Rand), along with the army of free-market economists who use their own work as faux-empirical justification for libertarian economic policies, NEVER talk about the humanitarian downsides of a hyper-competitive feedback loop/death-spiral...  except to mock them in "Atlas Shrugged" (America's second most-influential book after the Bible, according to one survey conducted in the early 1990s).I say this as a slowly-recovering right-libertarian (and developer) myself, turned moderate left-libertarian.We in IT have cut our own personal income profit margins and raised our hours in an attempt to out-compete each other; we've raised the bar year after year on ourselves.
We have, in short, cut our own throats.
We now, and increasingly-moreso, live in the cutthroat environment we (and admittedly, I) have so often advocated.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895357</id>
	<title>Re:Allow me to summarize</title>
	<author>DoofusOfDeath</author>
	<datestamp>1256734980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did I miss anything ? So what's there NOT to hate an IT Job ?</p><p>The women!</p><p>Oh, wait...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did I miss anything ?
So what 's there NOT to hate an IT Job ? The women ! Oh , wait.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did I miss anything ?
So what's there NOT to hate an IT Job ?The women!Oh, wait...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895227</id>
	<title>It is better to do something you enjoy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256733900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I left IT for teaching in 2003 and never looked back. I make less, but I just cut expenses to match. I've got no regrets. I actually like going to work in the morning. It is so much more important to like what you do than to make big bucks. Take it from someone who has had it both ways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I left IT for teaching in 2003 and never looked back .
I make less , but I just cut expenses to match .
I 've got no regrets .
I actually like going to work in the morning .
It is so much more important to like what you do than to make big bucks .
Take it from someone who has had it both ways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I left IT for teaching in 2003 and never looked back.
I make less, but I just cut expenses to match.
I've got no regrets.
I actually like going to work in the morning.
It is so much more important to like what you do than to make big bucks.
Take it from someone who has had it both ways.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900527</id>
	<title>Re:A Change is as Good as a Rest</title>
	<author>Kryten107</author>
	<datestamp>1256757840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How does one connect with this kind of job/lifestyle? I'd be interested and perhaps others would to...</p></div><p>Agreed. I'm graduating in ISDS (information systems + business) in December, and this sounds like a better option for the future than a cubicle farm.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How does one connect with this kind of job/lifestyle ?
I 'd be interested and perhaps others would to...Agreed .
I 'm graduating in ISDS ( information systems + business ) in December , and this sounds like a better option for the future than a cubicle farm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How does one connect with this kind of job/lifestyle?
I'd be interested and perhaps others would to...Agreed.
I'm graduating in ISDS (information systems + business) in December, and this sounds like a better option for the future than a cubicle farm.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897405</id>
	<title>Not Quite away from IT..</title>
	<author>knghtrider</author>
	<datestamp>1256745120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For the past two decades, I've been a VAX SysAdmin/Novell/Windows Network guy. Like the Poster, I've been frustrated by clients/companies who want Angus Filet on a cheeseburger budget. Last year, after my last contract expired I sidestepped over to a company that creates and installs home banking software for Credit Unions. Wow..what a difference. I'm appreciated, and compensated quite adequately. Yes, I work some long hours sometimes, but there are rewards for that. Plus, I get to use my IT skills--but only focused on Web and related networking aspects. I don't have to manage users, I don't do any server upgrades, all I do is install the software.


An even bigger perk---I work from home. Even though our company laptops are locked down (I can't run down to the coffee shop and use their Wi-Fi for example), working from home is nice--especially on 'Go Live' days that can be 10-12  hours long.

I guess what I'm saying here is that there are IT-related jobs that you can acquire where you don't have to worry about the client's requirements and budgets. If they don't have the gear to run this application, and don't want to pay our hosting fees; then they don't buy it..</htmltext>
<tokenext>For the past two decades , I 've been a VAX SysAdmin/Novell/Windows Network guy .
Like the Poster , I 've been frustrated by clients/companies who want Angus Filet on a cheeseburger budget .
Last year , after my last contract expired I sidestepped over to a company that creates and installs home banking software for Credit Unions .
Wow..what a difference .
I 'm appreciated , and compensated quite adequately .
Yes , I work some long hours sometimes , but there are rewards for that .
Plus , I get to use my IT skills--but only focused on Web and related networking aspects .
I do n't have to manage users , I do n't do any server upgrades , all I do is install the software .
An even bigger perk---I work from home .
Even though our company laptops are locked down ( I ca n't run down to the coffee shop and use their Wi-Fi for example ) , working from home is nice--especially on 'Go Live ' days that can be 10-12 hours long .
I guess what I 'm saying here is that there are IT-related jobs that you can acquire where you do n't have to worry about the client 's requirements and budgets .
If they do n't have the gear to run this application , and do n't want to pay our hosting fees ; then they do n't buy it. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For the past two decades, I've been a VAX SysAdmin/Novell/Windows Network guy.
Like the Poster, I've been frustrated by clients/companies who want Angus Filet on a cheeseburger budget.
Last year, after my last contract expired I sidestepped over to a company that creates and installs home banking software for Credit Unions.
Wow..what a difference.
I'm appreciated, and compensated quite adequately.
Yes, I work some long hours sometimes, but there are rewards for that.
Plus, I get to use my IT skills--but only focused on Web and related networking aspects.
I don't have to manage users, I don't do any server upgrades, all I do is install the software.
An even bigger perk---I work from home.
Even though our company laptops are locked down (I can't run down to the coffee shop and use their Wi-Fi for example), working from home is nice--especially on 'Go Live' days that can be 10-12  hours long.
I guess what I'm saying here is that there are IT-related jobs that you can acquire where you don't have to worry about the client's requirements and budgets.
If they don't have the gear to run this application, and don't want to pay our hosting fees; then they don't buy it..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898483</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>swb</author>
	<datestamp>1256749500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What kind of gross revenue are you looking at on an annualized basis?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What kind of gross revenue are you looking at on an annualized basis ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What kind of gross revenue are you looking at on an annualized basis?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893785</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895721</id>
	<title>Photography</title>
	<author>intheshelter</author>
	<datestamp>1256737920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm in the middle of a 2 year plan to get the heck out of corporate American.  I'm building a photography business from the ground up and I will not only eventually get out of the cattle-call of IT and corporate America, I'll be making 2-3 times as much money and ENJOY myself doing it.  I think you are smart to be thinking of a way out of IT (you're generally treated like shit anymore and contract workers from India are going to own that market eventually), but you should also see if you can find a way out of working for someone else and work for yourself instead.  Hopefully that's possible for you.  I am not there yet, but being part way down the road towards the goal makes me excited for the future.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in the middle of a 2 year plan to get the heck out of corporate American .
I 'm building a photography business from the ground up and I will not only eventually get out of the cattle-call of IT and corporate America , I 'll be making 2-3 times as much money and ENJOY myself doing it .
I think you are smart to be thinking of a way out of IT ( you 're generally treated like shit anymore and contract workers from India are going to own that market eventually ) , but you should also see if you can find a way out of working for someone else and work for yourself instead .
Hopefully that 's possible for you .
I am not there yet , but being part way down the road towards the goal makes me excited for the future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in the middle of a 2 year plan to get the heck out of corporate American.
I'm building a photography business from the ground up and I will not only eventually get out of the cattle-call of IT and corporate America, I'll be making 2-3 times as much money and ENJOY myself doing it.
I think you are smart to be thinking of a way out of IT (you're generally treated like shit anymore and contract workers from India are going to own that market eventually), but you should also see if you can find a way out of working for someone else and work for yourself instead.
Hopefully that's possible for you.
I am not there yet, but being part way down the road towards the goal makes me excited for the future.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895641</id>
	<title>Re:Getting old in IT is the kiss of death.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256737320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who says you have to stop learning new things as you get older?  Isn't that what makes IT exciting, the chance to do things better/faster/easier as new tools and technologies come along?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who says you have to stop learning new things as you get older ?
Is n't that what makes IT exciting , the chance to do things better/faster/easier as new tools and technologies come along ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who says you have to stop learning new things as you get older?
Isn't that what makes IT exciting, the chance to do things better/faster/easier as new tools and technologies come along?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893773</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893779</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256672040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Re: "How did it come to this?"</p><p>The answer: Greed, power and the corporation's never ending need for it. The truth is, big business these days does not care about there emplyees. Especially when they can get them over seas for less pay and more hours to over work them.</p><p>I myself am in IT too. I am a self employed computer technitian. I created my job on less than a $100 dallors and the willingness to get to work. I don't want to be rich. Just happy. I might have a good month and a slow one after that and its okay for me. I like what I do and my customers enjoy my dedication to quality work and being personable. I believe small businesses can turn things around. Greed and a constant qwest for power will destroy them.</p><p>If you have a good skill and know how to do something positive for others, yourself and can make money at it too, then I suggest going into business for yourself and screw the buttheads that don't know what quality is.</p><p>"and if you can 'get it right', you can definitely market on quality"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Re : " How did it come to this ?
" The answer : Greed , power and the corporation 's never ending need for it .
The truth is , big business these days does not care about there emplyees .
Especially when they can get them over seas for less pay and more hours to over work them.I myself am in IT too .
I am a self employed computer technitian .
I created my job on less than a $ 100 dallors and the willingness to get to work .
I do n't want to be rich .
Just happy .
I might have a good month and a slow one after that and its okay for me .
I like what I do and my customers enjoy my dedication to quality work and being personable .
I believe small businesses can turn things around .
Greed and a constant qwest for power will destroy them.If you have a good skill and know how to do something positive for others , yourself and can make money at it too , then I suggest going into business for yourself and screw the buttheads that do n't know what quality is .
" and if you can 'get it right ' , you can definitely market on quality "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Re: "How did it come to this?
"The answer: Greed, power and the corporation's never ending need for it.
The truth is, big business these days does not care about there emplyees.
Especially when they can get them over seas for less pay and more hours to over work them.I myself am in IT too.
I am a self employed computer technitian.
I created my job on less than a $100 dallors and the willingness to get to work.
I don't want to be rich.
Just happy.
I might have a good month and a slow one after that and its okay for me.
I like what I do and my customers enjoy my dedication to quality work and being personable.
I believe small businesses can turn things around.
Greed and a constant qwest for power will destroy them.If you have a good skill and know how to do something positive for others, yourself and can make money at it too, then I suggest going into business for yourself and screw the buttheads that don't know what quality is.
"and if you can 'get it right', you can definitely market on quality"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893457</id>
	<title>I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256667960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you might want to think about nursing. My ex-wife was an RN and she made really good money right out of college.</p><p>You have to clean up poop sometimes, but it's decent money.</p><p>LK</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you might want to think about nursing .
My ex-wife was an RN and she made really good money right out of college.You have to clean up poop sometimes , but it 's decent money.LK</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you might want to think about nursing.
My ex-wife was an RN and she made really good money right out of college.You have to clean up poop sometimes, but it's decent money.LK</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893649</id>
	<title>Have clients that see the value of your services..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256670300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I network with many IT Service related companies, having people not appreciate, understand etc has long been a part of this field and any time of customer service type field (when your dealing with clients directly). There are several things you can do to help with this. First a little background, I run an IT Service Company (we provided IT Services for Small Business, we even handle home users). It is clear that your clients are not understanding the value of your services, you probably just need some sales training on how to have your clients relize the value of your services. What you are doing should be saving the companies money (downtime = money) or you should not be there, they need to see you fees as saving them money, it is amazing what a difference this makes with client's attitudes. Think about it everything something breaks they get upset, then ontop of that they have to call you and spend money. Think about if they had a fixed fee and knew what they needed to budget each month, it is amazing how this will change their attitude. You are probably taking it way too personal, I use to have the same issue and sometimes I still do and I have to remind myself that it is not personal.. it is business. I can offer a few quick suggestions. First, have an Service Agreement (contract) that each client signs if they are a business.. it outlines your rates, how quickly your respond, emergency rates, when payments are do etc. This way everything is up front and signed, so if they complain you can simply remind them that if was all detailed in your service agreement. The next thing you have to do is weed out the clients that are always complaining, offer them a service contract for a fixed rate each month so they know their expenses, if they refuse, simply explain that unfortunally you will no longer be able to provide them with services as you are focused on proactivity supporting their computers and network. Start doing this for all your clients (see Managed Service Provider), again remember the Service Agreement. Make sure and focus on your most valuable clients.. have your core client base that pays your bills etc, then come up with guidelines for your perfect clients and only go after and accept those clients. Sign year long contracts. Think about how much more relaxed you will be knowing the checks will be arriving each month. Take a vacation if you can (try and force yourself)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. it is amazing what a difference this will make and how much better everything will seem when you get back. Hire someone to deal with phone calls and requests etc.. this way your not always dealing with "bumber" issues.. but simply focus on fixing things after clients agree to your rates etc. If you would like to chat or talk on the phone about this, send an e-mail to my anonymous e-mail address with your contact info and I'll reply, send some details about what you do etc, e-mail webmail125@gmail.com .</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I network with many IT Service related companies , having people not appreciate , understand etc has long been a part of this field and any time of customer service type field ( when your dealing with clients directly ) .
There are several things you can do to help with this .
First a little background , I run an IT Service Company ( we provided IT Services for Small Business , we even handle home users ) .
It is clear that your clients are not understanding the value of your services , you probably just need some sales training on how to have your clients relize the value of your services .
What you are doing should be saving the companies money ( downtime = money ) or you should not be there , they need to see you fees as saving them money , it is amazing what a difference this makes with client 's attitudes .
Think about it everything something breaks they get upset , then ontop of that they have to call you and spend money .
Think about if they had a fixed fee and knew what they needed to budget each month , it is amazing how this will change their attitude .
You are probably taking it way too personal , I use to have the same issue and sometimes I still do and I have to remind myself that it is not personal.. it is business .
I can offer a few quick suggestions .
First , have an Service Agreement ( contract ) that each client signs if they are a business.. it outlines your rates , how quickly your respond , emergency rates , when payments are do etc .
This way everything is up front and signed , so if they complain you can simply remind them that if was all detailed in your service agreement .
The next thing you have to do is weed out the clients that are always complaining , offer them a service contract for a fixed rate each month so they know their expenses , if they refuse , simply explain that unfortunally you will no longer be able to provide them with services as you are focused on proactivity supporting their computers and network .
Start doing this for all your clients ( see Managed Service Provider ) , again remember the Service Agreement .
Make sure and focus on your most valuable clients.. have your core client base that pays your bills etc , then come up with guidelines for your perfect clients and only go after and accept those clients .
Sign year long contracts .
Think about how much more relaxed you will be knowing the checks will be arriving each month .
Take a vacation if you can ( try and force yourself ) .. it is amazing what a difference this will make and how much better everything will seem when you get back .
Hire someone to deal with phone calls and requests etc.. this way your not always dealing with " bumber " issues.. but simply focus on fixing things after clients agree to your rates etc .
If you would like to chat or talk on the phone about this , send an e-mail to my anonymous e-mail address with your contact info and I 'll reply , send some details about what you do etc , e-mail webmail125 @ gmail.com .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I network with many IT Service related companies, having people not appreciate, understand etc has long been a part of this field and any time of customer service type field (when your dealing with clients directly).
There are several things you can do to help with this.
First a little background, I run an IT Service Company (we provided IT Services for Small Business, we even handle home users).
It is clear that your clients are not understanding the value of your services, you probably just need some sales training on how to have your clients relize the value of your services.
What you are doing should be saving the companies money (downtime = money) or you should not be there, they need to see you fees as saving them money, it is amazing what a difference this makes with client's attitudes.
Think about it everything something breaks they get upset, then ontop of that they have to call you and spend money.
Think about if they had a fixed fee and knew what they needed to budget each month, it is amazing how this will change their attitude.
You are probably taking it way too personal, I use to have the same issue and sometimes I still do and I have to remind myself that it is not personal.. it is business.
I can offer a few quick suggestions.
First, have an Service Agreement (contract) that each client signs if they are a business.. it outlines your rates, how quickly your respond, emergency rates, when payments are do etc.
This way everything is up front and signed, so if they complain you can simply remind them that if was all detailed in your service agreement.
The next thing you have to do is weed out the clients that are always complaining, offer them a service contract for a fixed rate each month so they know their expenses, if they refuse, simply explain that unfortunally you will no longer be able to provide them with services as you are focused on proactivity supporting their computers and network.
Start doing this for all your clients (see Managed Service Provider), again remember the Service Agreement.
Make sure and focus on your most valuable clients.. have your core client base that pays your bills etc, then come up with guidelines for your perfect clients and only go after and accept those clients.
Sign year long contracts.
Think about how much more relaxed you will be knowing the checks will be arriving each month.
Take a vacation if you can (try and force yourself) .. it is amazing what a difference this will make and how much better everything will seem when you get back.
Hire someone to deal with phone calls and requests etc.. this way your not always dealing with "bumber" issues.. but simply focus on fixing things after clients agree to your rates etc.
If you would like to chat or talk on the phone about this, send an e-mail to my anonymous e-mail address with your contact info and I'll reply, send some details about what you do etc, e-mail webmail125@gmail.com .</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895331</id>
	<title>Yes, please!</title>
	<author>KGBear</author>
	<datestamp>1256734800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's only one reason to be in IT: because you love it. Anything else is the wrong reason. I used to say during the good old days that yes, I was making great money but if I loved poetry that's what I'd be doing instead. Money is just not enough to make up for doing something you don't like every single day. IT requires commitment, willingness to constantly upgrade your skills, a passion for problem-solving, organizational and interpersonal skills. It gives back long hours, unappreciative employers and customers and these days, not a great deal of money. So all of you people who joined the profession during one of the previous booms thinking only about money, yes, please, go find something else to do. Go poison some other field. This will mean I'll get to work with fewer noobs and wannabees who think some stupid acronym certification makes them something they're not. And of course with fewer people in the field the average $$ will go up for those of us who really like this and know what they're doing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's only one reason to be in IT : because you love it .
Anything else is the wrong reason .
I used to say during the good old days that yes , I was making great money but if I loved poetry that 's what I 'd be doing instead .
Money is just not enough to make up for doing something you do n't like every single day .
IT requires commitment , willingness to constantly upgrade your skills , a passion for problem-solving , organizational and interpersonal skills .
It gives back long hours , unappreciative employers and customers and these days , not a great deal of money .
So all of you people who joined the profession during one of the previous booms thinking only about money , yes , please , go find something else to do .
Go poison some other field .
This will mean I 'll get to work with fewer noobs and wannabees who think some stupid acronym certification makes them something they 're not .
And of course with fewer people in the field the average $ $ will go up for those of us who really like this and know what they 're doing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's only one reason to be in IT: because you love it.
Anything else is the wrong reason.
I used to say during the good old days that yes, I was making great money but if I loved poetry that's what I'd be doing instead.
Money is just not enough to make up for doing something you don't like every single day.
IT requires commitment, willingness to constantly upgrade your skills, a passion for problem-solving, organizational and interpersonal skills.
It gives back long hours, unappreciative employers and customers and these days, not a great deal of money.
So all of you people who joined the profession during one of the previous booms thinking only about money, yes, please, go find something else to do.
Go poison some other field.
This will mean I'll get to work with fewer noobs and wannabees who think some stupid acronym certification makes them something they're not.
And of course with fewer people in the field the average $$ will go up for those of us who really like this and know what they're doing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29906325</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Money for Nothin'</author>
	<datestamp>1256748300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Very well said; the distinction is a good one.  IT is a relatively free-market culture because the bulk of its members want it that way, and so we have resisted things like unionization, and have supported things like exemptions from overtime pay.</p><p>Well, not we, the laborers of IT -- the managers of IT (actually, I have something of a foot in both camps, professionally, though still largely more in the former).  But we the laborers have typically agreed with management on those libertarian policies -- in much the same way that poor white Republicans often oppose government healthcare, even though they would stand as among the greatest beneficiaries of it  -- and we are poorer for it.  For all our claims towards a rational-actor model, in practice, even the more-rational among us do not always behave in a rationally-self-interested way...</p><p>My ideal society is probably anarcho-capitalism.  But that has a dependency (among many others) on an assumption of labor-side behavior with a strong will and Hank Rearden-like assertiveness and principle.  Unfortunately, that assumption is a very poor one...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Very well said ; the distinction is a good one .
IT is a relatively free-market culture because the bulk of its members want it that way , and so we have resisted things like unionization , and have supported things like exemptions from overtime pay.Well , not we , the laborers of IT -- the managers of IT ( actually , I have something of a foot in both camps , professionally , though still largely more in the former ) .
But we the laborers have typically agreed with management on those libertarian policies -- in much the same way that poor white Republicans often oppose government healthcare , even though they would stand as among the greatest beneficiaries of it -- and we are poorer for it .
For all our claims towards a rational-actor model , in practice , even the more-rational among us do not always behave in a rationally-self-interested way...My ideal society is probably anarcho-capitalism .
But that has a dependency ( among many others ) on an assumption of labor-side behavior with a strong will and Hank Rearden-like assertiveness and principle .
Unfortunately , that assumption is a very poor one.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very well said; the distinction is a good one.
IT is a relatively free-market culture because the bulk of its members want it that way, and so we have resisted things like unionization, and have supported things like exemptions from overtime pay.Well, not we, the laborers of IT -- the managers of IT (actually, I have something of a foot in both camps, professionally, though still largely more in the former).
But we the laborers have typically agreed with management on those libertarian policies -- in much the same way that poor white Republicans often oppose government healthcare, even though they would stand as among the greatest beneficiaries of it  -- and we are poorer for it.
For all our claims towards a rational-actor model, in practice, even the more-rational among us do not always behave in a rationally-self-interested way...My ideal society is probably anarcho-capitalism.
But that has a dependency (among many others) on an assumption of labor-side behavior with a strong will and Hank Rearden-like assertiveness and principle.
Unfortunately, that assumption is a very poor one...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895845</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893711</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256671260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny you should mention that. I've been a programmer for about 15 years, and I just got accepted to nursing school.</p><p>I'll be taking a cut of about 40\% off my current salary as a contractor. That's in addition to having student loans to repay, and being out of work for a year while I get my BSN. Yet I expect I'll be a lot happier and doing something important with my life.</p><p>Plus after civilization collapses in the coming zombie apocalypse, I'll be able to barter my health care skills for survival, while programmers will be a useless load due to the lack of electricity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny you should mention that .
I 've been a programmer for about 15 years , and I just got accepted to nursing school.I 'll be taking a cut of about 40 \ % off my current salary as a contractor .
That 's in addition to having student loans to repay , and being out of work for a year while I get my BSN .
Yet I expect I 'll be a lot happier and doing something important with my life.Plus after civilization collapses in the coming zombie apocalypse , I 'll be able to barter my health care skills for survival , while programmers will be a useless load due to the lack of electricity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny you should mention that.
I've been a programmer for about 15 years, and I just got accepted to nursing school.I'll be taking a cut of about 40\% off my current salary as a contractor.
That's in addition to having student loans to repay, and being out of work for a year while I get my BSN.
Yet I expect I'll be a lot happier and doing something important with my life.Plus after civilization collapses in the coming zombie apocalypse, I'll be able to barter my health care skills for survival, while programmers will be a useless load due to the lack of electricity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893805</id>
	<title>I'll have my say on this</title>
	<author>cyberzephyr</author>
	<datestamp>1256672280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to work for Hewlett Packard, Dell, Compaq and Sony in Rancho Bernardo.  I have 2 BA's, 1 in computer science and 1 in Restaurant cooking and management.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Guess which on is going after me in this f-d up economic enviroment?</p><p>Do you like to eat?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to work for Hewlett Packard , Dell , Compaq and Sony in Rancho Bernardo .
I have 2 BA 's , 1 in computer science and 1 in Restaurant cooking and management .
    Guess which on is going after me in this f-d up economic enviroment ? Do you like to eat ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to work for Hewlett Packard, Dell, Compaq and Sony in Rancho Bernardo.
I have 2 BA's, 1 in computer science and 1 in Restaurant cooking and management.
    Guess which on is going after me in this f-d up economic enviroment?Do you like to eat?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29906249</id>
	<title>Ministry</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256747640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's just say it was a God-send and forgive the pun, but I left IT for the ministry. I have been pastoring a rural church now for 2 years after being laid off from my last IT gig. I had 9 years experience working IT when I was let go. Hasn't been a problem though. If the phone's gotta ring at 3 in the morning, I'd much rather it be about someone that's dying than someone's Cisco switch that went bad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's just say it was a God-send and forgive the pun , but I left IT for the ministry .
I have been pastoring a rural church now for 2 years after being laid off from my last IT gig .
I had 9 years experience working IT when I was let go .
Has n't been a problem though .
If the phone 's got ta ring at 3 in the morning , I 'd much rather it be about someone that 's dying than someone 's Cisco switch that went bad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's just say it was a God-send and forgive the pun, but I left IT for the ministry.
I have been pastoring a rural church now for 2 years after being laid off from my last IT gig.
I had 9 years experience working IT when I was let go.
Hasn't been a problem though.
If the phone's gotta ring at 3 in the morning, I'd much rather it be about someone that's dying than someone's Cisco switch that went bad.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893513</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>Lord\_of\_the\_nerf</author>
	<datestamp>1256668680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>A friend of mine went into trades - just picked up a mature aged apprenticeship and become a fantastically rich electrician. Seems like the geekiest trade to pick up. There's a demand for qualified electricians in Australia at the moment from what I can see, but I'm not sure if it's a worldwide trend.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A friend of mine went into trades - just picked up a mature aged apprenticeship and become a fantastically rich electrician .
Seems like the geekiest trade to pick up .
There 's a demand for qualified electricians in Australia at the moment from what I can see , but I 'm not sure if it 's a worldwide trend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A friend of mine went into trades - just picked up a mature aged apprenticeship and become a fantastically rich electrician.
Seems like the geekiest trade to pick up.
There's a demand for qualified electricians in Australia at the moment from what I can see, but I'm not sure if it's a worldwide trend.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895315</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>netpixie</author>
	<datestamp>1256734500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;The way I see it, the purpose of life is to do what you want, enjoy doing it, and enjoy helping others do the same. It is very unfortunate that this does not happen.</p><p>I enjoy seeing my children have food to eat and clothes to wear. I enjoy being able to take them out to exciting places.  I enjoy being able to send them to school.  I enjoy keeping them safe in a reasonable house. My wife enjoys being able to stay at home and look after them.</p><p>All of these things are possible because of the cash I earn at a job I don't enjoy.</p><p>So, while universal joy is a good aim, in the real world it doesn't usually work like that. You have to choose which bits of your life you are going to enjoy and which bits you are going to endure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; The way I see it , the purpose of life is to do what you want , enjoy doing it , and enjoy helping others do the same .
It is very unfortunate that this does not happen.I enjoy seeing my children have food to eat and clothes to wear .
I enjoy being able to take them out to exciting places .
I enjoy being able to send them to school .
I enjoy keeping them safe in a reasonable house .
My wife enjoys being able to stay at home and look after them.All of these things are possible because of the cash I earn at a job I do n't enjoy.So , while universal joy is a good aim , in the real world it does n't usually work like that .
You have to choose which bits of your life you are going to enjoy and which bits you are going to endure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;The way I see it, the purpose of life is to do what you want, enjoy doing it, and enjoy helping others do the same.
It is very unfortunate that this does not happen.I enjoy seeing my children have food to eat and clothes to wear.
I enjoy being able to take them out to exciting places.
I enjoy being able to send them to school.
I enjoy keeping them safe in a reasonable house.
My wife enjoys being able to stay at home and look after them.All of these things are possible because of the cash I earn at a job I don't enjoy.So, while universal joy is a good aim, in the real world it doesn't usually work like that.
You have to choose which bits of your life you are going to enjoy and which bits you are going to endure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895235</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Diagoras</author>
	<datestamp>1256733960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This all sounds like a troll but it's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the "intelligent" folks are working as slaves. How did it come to this?</p></div><p>Yeah, I'm gonna take a leap here and not blame it on capitalism, or on the fact that all executives are immoral. The issue is that you're laboring under the deluded belief that intelligence, and a very narrowly defined type, is what gets you ahead in business. It isn't. Being charismatic, a generalist rather than a specialist, and generally likable is what gets you ahead. You can have an IQ of 200 and still work as a janitor if you're a complete asshole.</p><p>In my experience, while you do get the occasional raging sociopath amongst the "complete idiots," for the most part they are people who are good at getting people to like them.<br>And humans have always preferred charisma to intelligence, with good reason.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This all sounds like a troll but it 's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the " intelligent " folks are working as slaves .
How did it come to this ? Yeah , I 'm gon na take a leap here and not blame it on capitalism , or on the fact that all executives are immoral .
The issue is that you 're laboring under the deluded belief that intelligence , and a very narrowly defined type , is what gets you ahead in business .
It is n't .
Being charismatic , a generalist rather than a specialist , and generally likable is what gets you ahead .
You can have an IQ of 200 and still work as a janitor if you 're a complete asshole.In my experience , while you do get the occasional raging sociopath amongst the " complete idiots , " for the most part they are people who are good at getting people to like them.And humans have always preferred charisma to intelligence , with good reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This all sounds like a troll but it's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the "intelligent" folks are working as slaves.
How did it come to this?Yeah, I'm gonna take a leap here and not blame it on capitalism, or on the fact that all executives are immoral.
The issue is that you're laboring under the deluded belief that intelligence, and a very narrowly defined type, is what gets you ahead in business.
It isn't.
Being charismatic, a generalist rather than a specialist, and generally likable is what gets you ahead.
You can have an IQ of 200 and still work as a janitor if you're a complete asshole.In my experience, while you do get the occasional raging sociopath amongst the "complete idiots," for the most part they are people who are good at getting people to like them.And humans have always preferred charisma to intelligence, with good reason.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897067</id>
	<title>I'm glad I did</title>
	<author>Crazy Brian</author>
	<datestamp>1256743680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>February of 2009, I left the IT industry in the gambling sector, and became a Maintenance Mechanic at a grain mill in the small town I live in.  I got a $4 an hour raise, and cut my commute costs by about $100 a month, and lost 15 pounds by riding my bicycle to work.  I now make the most per hour that I ever have.  It's still owned by an evil corporation, but at least the local surpervisors seem decent.

I still get my IT fix, by keeping my household up and running, as well as doing computer work on the side.  The mill also has me do internal computer work, and they pay me a premium whenever I do it.  Their actual IT guy is several hours away.

6 months after I started, I became an Electrical Trainee, with another pay raise.

Worked out great for me!</htmltext>
<tokenext>February of 2009 , I left the IT industry in the gambling sector , and became a Maintenance Mechanic at a grain mill in the small town I live in .
I got a $ 4 an hour raise , and cut my commute costs by about $ 100 a month , and lost 15 pounds by riding my bicycle to work .
I now make the most per hour that I ever have .
It 's still owned by an evil corporation , but at least the local surpervisors seem decent .
I still get my IT fix , by keeping my household up and running , as well as doing computer work on the side .
The mill also has me do internal computer work , and they pay me a premium whenever I do it .
Their actual IT guy is several hours away .
6 months after I started , I became an Electrical Trainee , with another pay raise .
Worked out great for me !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>February of 2009, I left the IT industry in the gambling sector, and became a Maintenance Mechanic at a grain mill in the small town I live in.
I got a $4 an hour raise, and cut my commute costs by about $100 a month, and lost 15 pounds by riding my bicycle to work.
I now make the most per hour that I ever have.
It's still owned by an evil corporation, but at least the local surpervisors seem decent.
I still get my IT fix, by keeping my household up and running, as well as doing computer work on the side.
The mill also has me do internal computer work, and they pay me a premium whenever I do it.
Their actual IT guy is several hours away.
6 months after I started, I became an Electrical Trainee, with another pay raise.
Worked out great for me!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893941</id>
	<title>Working maintenance at an airport!</title>
	<author>((hristopher \_-*-\_-*</author>
	<datestamp>1256760540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I feel more manly, and simple things appeal more now.  Although that might have something to do with being only able to afford simple things.  Oh well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I feel more manly , and simple things appeal more now .
Although that might have something to do with being only able to afford simple things .
Oh well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I feel more manly, and simple things appeal more now.
Although that might have something to do with being only able to afford simple things.
Oh well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893839</id>
	<title>Left 2 years ago</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256672640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was in systems engineering job, and left the field 2 years ago for medical research.</p><p>Took a 50\% pay cut - and haven't regretted it once.  In fact, I always thought I was underpaid in engineering compared to the mid-career contractors who milked the system and were HORRIBLE.  In research, my only thought has been, "And I get paid for this!??!".</p><p>Perks are 4+ weeks of vacation, no more worrying about timecharging, working with people who are much more passionate - and waaaay more technical creativity.  I've done more engineering in the past year than I did in my previous "engineering" job.  In research, you're doing things that people haven't done before.  It's not just learning the "process" and meeting your customer requirements.</p><p>Whatever your passion, jump off and do it.  It was scary as hell at the time - but best decision I've ever made.  What good is extra money if you're spending it to prop up a miserable life?  And the crazy thing is that I have way more vacation time, but I enjoy work so much, I hardly ever use it.</p><p>Go for it, you'll never look back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was in systems engineering job , and left the field 2 years ago for medical research.Took a 50 \ % pay cut - and have n't regretted it once .
In fact , I always thought I was underpaid in engineering compared to the mid-career contractors who milked the system and were HORRIBLE .
In research , my only thought has been , " And I get paid for this ! ? ? !
" .Perks are 4 + weeks of vacation , no more worrying about timecharging , working with people who are much more passionate - and waaaay more technical creativity .
I 've done more engineering in the past year than I did in my previous " engineering " job .
In research , you 're doing things that people have n't done before .
It 's not just learning the " process " and meeting your customer requirements.Whatever your passion , jump off and do it .
It was scary as hell at the time - but best decision I 've ever made .
What good is extra money if you 're spending it to prop up a miserable life ?
And the crazy thing is that I have way more vacation time , but I enjoy work so much , I hardly ever use it.Go for it , you 'll never look back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was in systems engineering job, and left the field 2 years ago for medical research.Took a 50\% pay cut - and haven't regretted it once.
In fact, I always thought I was underpaid in engineering compared to the mid-career contractors who milked the system and were HORRIBLE.
In research, my only thought has been, "And I get paid for this!??!
".Perks are 4+ weeks of vacation, no more worrying about timecharging, working with people who are much more passionate - and waaaay more technical creativity.
I've done more engineering in the past year than I did in my previous "engineering" job.
In research, you're doing things that people haven't done before.
It's not just learning the "process" and meeting your customer requirements.Whatever your passion, jump off and do it.
It was scary as hell at the time - but best decision I've ever made.
What good is extra money if you're spending it to prop up a miserable life?
And the crazy thing is that I have way more vacation time, but I enjoy work so much, I hardly ever use it.Go for it, you'll never look back.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893795</id>
	<title>In some ways I'm going thru brain death</title>
	<author>ptmartin01</author>
	<datestamp>1256672160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But that's because IT's advances are now only theory in relation to what I do.  My job no longer requires that I keep up with technology and so i keep up only in areas that are enjoyable.  I don't code, anything at all.<br><br>But the time I have left over I can spend with many many things that have become important - kids, games, spouse.  The money was an issue for the first couple of years.<br><br>If I had to do it over again, though, I would have trained as a respiratory therapist just so I could be in a field that is still developing while working a job that lets me go home at the end of the day.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But that 's because IT 's advances are now only theory in relation to what I do .
My job no longer requires that I keep up with technology and so i keep up only in areas that are enjoyable .
I do n't code , anything at all.But the time I have left over I can spend with many many things that have become important - kids , games , spouse .
The money was an issue for the first couple of years.If I had to do it over again , though , I would have trained as a respiratory therapist just so I could be in a field that is still developing while working a job that lets me go home at the end of the day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But that's because IT's advances are now only theory in relation to what I do.
My job no longer requires that I keep up with technology and so i keep up only in areas that are enjoyable.
I don't code, anything at all.But the time I have left over I can spend with many many things that have become important - kids, games, spouse.
The money was an issue for the first couple of years.If I had to do it over again, though, I would have trained as a respiratory therapist just so I could be in a field that is still developing while working a job that lets me go home at the end of the day.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893861</id>
	<title>I quit IT two years ago and went into teaching.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256673000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had been in IT for about 10 years and had had enough. Fortunately I had a master's degree so I was able to get a job teaching at a community college. It's definitely a big pay cut compared to my old IT job, but it's more enjoyable and less stressful. I would never go back to IT. You have to find something you enjoy doing. Life's too short to be spent slaving away in a cubicle for a group of total bastards in a job you hate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had been in IT for about 10 years and had had enough .
Fortunately I had a master 's degree so I was able to get a job teaching at a community college .
It 's definitely a big pay cut compared to my old IT job , but it 's more enjoyable and less stressful .
I would never go back to IT .
You have to find something you enjoy doing .
Life 's too short to be spent slaving away in a cubicle for a group of total bastards in a job you hate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had been in IT for about 10 years and had had enough.
Fortunately I had a master's degree so I was able to get a job teaching at a community college.
It's definitely a big pay cut compared to my old IT job, but it's more enjoyable and less stressful.
I would never go back to IT.
You have to find something you enjoy doing.
Life's too short to be spent slaving away in a cubicle for a group of total bastards in a job you hate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29906317</id>
	<title>Don't let fear stop you...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256748300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I walked away from a six-figure IT job at a major software company last year because, frankly, enough was enough.  All day working with US colleagues, half the night working with the offshore teams, 7 days a week, and constant, constant churn in the form of products, reorgs, managers, crisis of the day, etc...   I got interested in neuroscience a while back, and I started trying to pursue it, but realized that there was absolutely no way I could half-ass that kind of change.  Cutting my company loose was the scariest thing I've ever done, especially in this economy.  I've gone through all of my savings in the last year keeping my mortgage up while trying to sell my house.  The good news is that I have sold it.  I close one day before the first mortgage payment I would have missed is due.  In the mean time, I've managed to get some preliminaries out of the way at a local community college, and I'm heading off to a major university in the fall to enter their neuroscience program.  This has been one of the toughest years of my life, but, I've never been happier.  When I solve a tough problem now, I am the beneficiary, not my company.  I spend my time pursuing things that interest me, not rescuing someone or something from disaster.  I'm getting enough sleep for the first time since I can remember, and I'm cleaning up a lot of things in my life that I never had time to make right.  The ONLY thing I miss about my career is the money and benefits, and I'm pretty sure I'll get those back again in the future - a future doing something rewarding.<br>You are right, changing careers, especially right now, is "iffy", but don't let that stop you.  Constantly questioning what you do, your sanity for doing it, etc...  is incredibly demoralizing, and you aren't going to like what you've become if you do it long term.  Unless you really, really like the working conditions in IT, move on!  Let IT solve it's own problems!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I walked away from a six-figure IT job at a major software company last year because , frankly , enough was enough .
All day working with US colleagues , half the night working with the offshore teams , 7 days a week , and constant , constant churn in the form of products , reorgs , managers , crisis of the day , etc... I got interested in neuroscience a while back , and I started trying to pursue it , but realized that there was absolutely no way I could half-ass that kind of change .
Cutting my company loose was the scariest thing I 've ever done , especially in this economy .
I 've gone through all of my savings in the last year keeping my mortgage up while trying to sell my house .
The good news is that I have sold it .
I close one day before the first mortgage payment I would have missed is due .
In the mean time , I 've managed to get some preliminaries out of the way at a local community college , and I 'm heading off to a major university in the fall to enter their neuroscience program .
This has been one of the toughest years of my life , but , I 've never been happier .
When I solve a tough problem now , I am the beneficiary , not my company .
I spend my time pursuing things that interest me , not rescuing someone or something from disaster .
I 'm getting enough sleep for the first time since I can remember , and I 'm cleaning up a lot of things in my life that I never had time to make right .
The ONLY thing I miss about my career is the money and benefits , and I 'm pretty sure I 'll get those back again in the future - a future doing something rewarding.You are right , changing careers , especially right now , is " iffy " , but do n't let that stop you .
Constantly questioning what you do , your sanity for doing it , etc... is incredibly demoralizing , and you are n't going to like what you 've become if you do it long term .
Unless you really , really like the working conditions in IT , move on !
Let IT solve it 's own problems !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I walked away from a six-figure IT job at a major software company last year because, frankly, enough was enough.
All day working with US colleagues, half the night working with the offshore teams, 7 days a week, and constant, constant churn in the form of products, reorgs, managers, crisis of the day, etc...   I got interested in neuroscience a while back, and I started trying to pursue it, but realized that there was absolutely no way I could half-ass that kind of change.
Cutting my company loose was the scariest thing I've ever done, especially in this economy.
I've gone through all of my savings in the last year keeping my mortgage up while trying to sell my house.
The good news is that I have sold it.
I close one day before the first mortgage payment I would have missed is due.
In the mean time, I've managed to get some preliminaries out of the way at a local community college, and I'm heading off to a major university in the fall to enter their neuroscience program.
This has been one of the toughest years of my life, but, I've never been happier.
When I solve a tough problem now, I am the beneficiary, not my company.
I spend my time pursuing things that interest me, not rescuing someone or something from disaster.
I'm getting enough sleep for the first time since I can remember, and I'm cleaning up a lot of things in my life that I never had time to make right.
The ONLY thing I miss about my career is the money and benefits, and I'm pretty sure I'll get those back again in the future - a future doing something rewarding.You are right, changing careers, especially right now, is "iffy", but don't let that stop you.
Constantly questioning what you do, your sanity for doing it, etc...  is incredibly demoralizing, and you aren't going to like what you've become if you do it long term.
Unless you really, really like the working conditions in IT, move on!
Let IT solve it's own problems!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896349</id>
	<title>university level teaching has been a joy...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256740980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After 27 years in IT in the private sector, I taught for 10 years in the business school of a very good university.  I just retired.  But I still miss teaching.  It was BY FAR the best job in my life, even though the pay was less than half of what I earned previously.  It felt so good to work more for love than money, and know that I was making a difference in my students' lives, helping them to get jobs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After 27 years in IT in the private sector , I taught for 10 years in the business school of a very good university .
I just retired .
But I still miss teaching .
It was BY FAR the best job in my life , even though the pay was less than half of what I earned previously .
It felt so good to work more for love than money , and know that I was making a difference in my students ' lives , helping them to get jobs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After 27 years in IT in the private sector, I taught for 10 years in the business school of a very good university.
I just retired.
But I still miss teaching.
It was BY FAR the best job in my life, even though the pay was less than half of what I earned previously.
It felt so good to work more for love than money, and know that I was making a difference in my students' lives, helping them to get jobs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900121</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>jtheisen</author>
	<datestamp>1256756280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You've obviously never been treated by a sys admin who was in the job for the wrong reasons. Please don't ever SUGGEST IT to people, unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others even on their worst days.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've obviously never been treated by a sys admin who was in the job for the wrong reasons .
Please do n't ever SUGGEST IT to people , unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion , patience , and willingness to help others even on their worst days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've obviously never been treated by a sys admin who was in the job for the wrong reasons.
Please don't ever SUGGEST IT to people, unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others even on their worst days.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895291</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256734320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you not seen what Unions have done?  Open your eyes.  My neighbor is a GM employee (aka generous motors) in a local GM factory.  He has been there for many years.  His pay with overtime is over 100K.  Is the skill of a janitor really worth 100K?  I think not.  Just ask your local McDonalds employees.  And yes he has been there for a long time, but he would be crazy to leave... hence why he made a career of being a janitor.</p><p>Unions have crippled many large companies and in result has hurt our economy.  Unions at one time were great and served a good purpose, but today they are too powerful and greedy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you not seen what Unions have done ?
Open your eyes .
My neighbor is a GM employee ( aka generous motors ) in a local GM factory .
He has been there for many years .
His pay with overtime is over 100K .
Is the skill of a janitor really worth 100K ?
I think not .
Just ask your local McDonalds employees .
And yes he has been there for a long time , but he would be crazy to leave... hence why he made a career of being a janitor.Unions have crippled many large companies and in result has hurt our economy .
Unions at one time were great and served a good purpose , but today they are too powerful and greedy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you not seen what Unions have done?
Open your eyes.
My neighbor is a GM employee (aka generous motors) in a local GM factory.
He has been there for many years.
His pay with overtime is over 100K.
Is the skill of a janitor really worth 100K?
I think not.
Just ask your local McDonalds employees.
And yes he has been there for a long time, but he would be crazy to leave... hence why he made a career of being a janitor.Unions have crippled many large companies and in result has hurt our economy.
Unions at one time were great and served a good purpose, but today they are too powerful and greedy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893505</id>
	<title>be careful</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256668620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You have to manage the delicate task of having your secretary take the specs from the customers and give it to the engineers....you have to be a people person, so dot jump to any conclusions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You have to manage the delicate task of having your secretary take the specs from the customers and give it to the engineers....you have to be a people person , so dot jump to any conclusions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have to manage the delicate task of having your secretary take the specs from the customers and give it to the engineers....you have to be a people person, so dot jump to any conclusions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893895</id>
	<title>I have about 8yrs in IT, about 4 as an SE, and 1</title>
	<author>Desmoden</author>
	<datestamp>1256760000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>.5 in Technical Marketing. And if I can survive the politics I think I've found my spot. It's fun always planing with the bleeding edge stuff. I LOVED being an SE (Sales/System Engineer) but life points you in funny directions.</p><p>What I've found is there are a TON of "second tier" careers that are kind of like dual-classing in D&amp;D, where you have to be a 8th level unix sysadmin || 10th level Windows admin || xth level Engineer of Foo, and then a 2nd level SE, and then you can apply for 1st level technical marketing engineer or something like that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>As I said, there are lots of cool options after IT. And all of them are better than getting paged at 2am</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.5 in Technical Marketing .
And if I can survive the politics I think I 've found my spot .
It 's fun always planing with the bleeding edge stuff .
I LOVED being an SE ( Sales/System Engineer ) but life points you in funny directions.What I 've found is there are a TON of " second tier " careers that are kind of like dual-classing in D&amp;D , where you have to be a 8th level unix sysadmin | | 10th level Windows admin | | xth level Engineer of Foo , and then a 2nd level SE , and then you can apply for 1st level technical marketing engineer or something like that : ) As I said , there are lots of cool options after IT .
And all of them are better than getting paged at 2am</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.5 in Technical Marketing.
And if I can survive the politics I think I've found my spot.
It's fun always planing with the bleeding edge stuff.
I LOVED being an SE (Sales/System Engineer) but life points you in funny directions.What I've found is there are a TON of "second tier" careers that are kind of like dual-classing in D&amp;D, where you have to be a 8th level unix sysadmin || 10th level Windows admin || xth level Engineer of Foo, and then a 2nd level SE, and then you can apply for 1st level technical marketing engineer or something like that :)As I said, there are lots of cool options after IT.
And all of them are better than getting paged at 2am</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29950648</id>
	<title>unions</title>
	<author>phorm</author>
	<datestamp>1257179880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"<i>Similarly, unions have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that.</i>"</p><p>Overly high wages and other such things have never really been a problem in most of the unions I've known, the pay rates for most positions was less than a similar private sector.<br>Being un-firable, however, was a major issue. The whole system resolves around seniority, so being around longer means more perks. You tend to get higher pay and are less able to be fired. The good part of this is that you can't take somebody who's dedicated his/her life to the company and shitcan them because you've decided to replace them with some guy from out-of-country at 20\% of the wage. The bad part is when you get those that are just hanging around your last few years waiting for retirement - or that are obviously working below their capabilities - and have some fairly major personality issues, yet there's not glaringly apparent reason to fire them.</p><p>Guess what though, this happens in the private non-union sector too. I had a positions where the lead programmer was an egocentric asshole - even the boss admitted as much - but he had entrenched himself with code that others couldn't easily maintain and nobody could work with him long enough to figure all his little $secrets. We had techs/admins that were not bad workers, but got loaded with so much drop-by shit that they got overloaded and made mistakes. There was also plenty of nepotism or hiring-of-friends, back-patting, and favours to go around. One thing that didn't tend to happen as much in the union jobs though, is getting screwed with constant (unpaid) OT because the company decided to save bucks by cheaping out in some fashion or another.</p><p>So when I think of whatever might be bad in a union job, there's the same crap for non-union jobs, and sometimes worse. It might just be a little less visible. No job is always rosy.  Overall though, I've found that people tend to be a bit nicer and/or happier in union environments. Not because of pay, or even because they're hassle-free, but because of the little things that tend to make life a bit more bearable.</p><p>Do your best to enjoy the good little things, and to ignore the other bad little things, and try not to be like the people that drive you crazy. Seriously, some of the people I know that complain the most about others are in turn the biggest jerks to those under them</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Similarly , unions have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that .
" Overly high wages and other such things have never really been a problem in most of the unions I 've known , the pay rates for most positions was less than a similar private sector.Being un-firable , however , was a major issue .
The whole system resolves around seniority , so being around longer means more perks .
You tend to get higher pay and are less able to be fired .
The good part of this is that you ca n't take somebody who 's dedicated his/her life to the company and shitcan them because you 've decided to replace them with some guy from out-of-country at 20 \ % of the wage .
The bad part is when you get those that are just hanging around your last few years waiting for retirement - or that are obviously working below their capabilities - and have some fairly major personality issues , yet there 's not glaringly apparent reason to fire them.Guess what though , this happens in the private non-union sector too .
I had a positions where the lead programmer was an egocentric asshole - even the boss admitted as much - but he had entrenched himself with code that others could n't easily maintain and nobody could work with him long enough to figure all his little $ secrets .
We had techs/admins that were not bad workers , but got loaded with so much drop-by shit that they got overloaded and made mistakes .
There was also plenty of nepotism or hiring-of-friends , back-patting , and favours to go around .
One thing that did n't tend to happen as much in the union jobs though , is getting screwed with constant ( unpaid ) OT because the company decided to save bucks by cheaping out in some fashion or another.So when I think of whatever might be bad in a union job , there 's the same crap for non-union jobs , and sometimes worse .
It might just be a little less visible .
No job is always rosy .
Overall though , I 've found that people tend to be a bit nicer and/or happier in union environments .
Not because of pay , or even because they 're hassle-free , but because of the little things that tend to make life a bit more bearable.Do your best to enjoy the good little things , and to ignore the other bad little things , and try not to be like the people that drive you crazy .
Seriously , some of the people I know that complain the most about others are in turn the biggest jerks to those under them</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Similarly, unions have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that.
"Overly high wages and other such things have never really been a problem in most of the unions I've known, the pay rates for most positions was less than a similar private sector.Being un-firable, however, was a major issue.
The whole system resolves around seniority, so being around longer means more perks.
You tend to get higher pay and are less able to be fired.
The good part of this is that you can't take somebody who's dedicated his/her life to the company and shitcan them because you've decided to replace them with some guy from out-of-country at 20\% of the wage.
The bad part is when you get those that are just hanging around your last few years waiting for retirement - or that are obviously working below their capabilities - and have some fairly major personality issues, yet there's not glaringly apparent reason to fire them.Guess what though, this happens in the private non-union sector too.
I had a positions where the lead programmer was an egocentric asshole - even the boss admitted as much - but he had entrenched himself with code that others couldn't easily maintain and nobody could work with him long enough to figure all his little $secrets.
We had techs/admins that were not bad workers, but got loaded with so much drop-by shit that they got overloaded and made mistakes.
There was also plenty of nepotism or hiring-of-friends, back-patting, and favours to go around.
One thing that didn't tend to happen as much in the union jobs though, is getting screwed with constant (unpaid) OT because the company decided to save bucks by cheaping out in some fashion or another.So when I think of whatever might be bad in a union job, there's the same crap for non-union jobs, and sometimes worse.
It might just be a little less visible.
No job is always rosy.
Overall though, I've found that people tend to be a bit nicer and/or happier in union environments.
Not because of pay, or even because they're hassle-free, but because of the little things that tend to make life a bit more bearable.Do your best to enjoy the good little things, and to ignore the other bad little things, and try not to be like the people that drive you crazy.
Seriously, some of the people I know that complain the most about others are in turn the biggest jerks to those under them</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894457</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256724900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>unions are great for union members...up until the employer is bankrupted by incessant demands. then unions are bad for everyone. the only reason it sort-of works in service industries is it's hard to ship the docks to china.</p><p>why don't you move to france, mr entitlement? or just keep voting democrat so we can all live in a proletariat dreamworld... it worked great for russia, china, and north korea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>unions are great for union members...up until the employer is bankrupted by incessant demands .
then unions are bad for everyone .
the only reason it sort-of works in service industries is it 's hard to ship the docks to china.why do n't you move to france , mr entitlement ?
or just keep voting democrat so we can all live in a proletariat dreamworld... it worked great for russia , china , and north korea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>unions are great for union members...up until the employer is bankrupted by incessant demands.
then unions are bad for everyone.
the only reason it sort-of works in service industries is it's hard to ship the docks to china.why don't you move to france, mr entitlement?
or just keep voting democrat so we can all live in a proletariat dreamworld... it worked great for russia, china, and north korea.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897725</id>
	<title>Hate this career...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256746380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Biggest mistake of my life was getting in to this nightmare career.  This industry is a fucking joke, the work sucks ass, the management is clueless, the users are stupid and unappreciative...the list goes on.<br> <br>

I am a fairly good photographer and seriously considered fine art photo or photojournalism as a major when I decided Computer Science wasn't for me.  Instead I went into Information Technology.  Definitely a decision that fucked the rest of my life.  I would be broke as an artist, but I could not possibly be any more miserable.<br> <br>

It really is an awful career, I tell everyone who is thinking about going in to it to think again.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Biggest mistake of my life was getting in to this nightmare career .
This industry is a fucking joke , the work sucks ass , the management is clueless , the users are stupid and unappreciative...the list goes on .
I am a fairly good photographer and seriously considered fine art photo or photojournalism as a major when I decided Computer Science was n't for me .
Instead I went into Information Technology .
Definitely a decision that fucked the rest of my life .
I would be broke as an artist , but I could not possibly be any more miserable .
It really is an awful career , I tell everyone who is thinking about going in to it to think again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Biggest mistake of my life was getting in to this nightmare career.
This industry is a fucking joke, the work sucks ass, the management is clueless, the users are stupid and unappreciative...the list goes on.
I am a fairly good photographer and seriously considered fine art photo or photojournalism as a major when I decided Computer Science wasn't for me.
Instead I went into Information Technology.
Definitely a decision that fucked the rest of my life.
I would be broke as an artist, but I could not possibly be any more miserable.
It really is an awful career, I tell everyone who is thinking about going in to it to think again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29901233</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>GalubJamun</author>
	<datestamp>1256760960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think both you and the previous poster have great points.  I went through this myself after being in the IT field for about 15 years.  2 things happened to change the situation, first I started my own company and at least I control what I do and what I get paid.  The second is, and I hesitate to say this on Slashdot, I became a Christian and started to care about people a great deal more.  Things have improved.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think both you and the previous poster have great points .
I went through this myself after being in the IT field for about 15 years .
2 things happened to change the situation , first I started my own company and at least I control what I do and what I get paid .
The second is , and I hesitate to say this on Slashdot , I became a Christian and started to care about people a great deal more .
Things have improved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think both you and the previous poster have great points.
I went through this myself after being in the IT field for about 15 years.
2 things happened to change the situation, first I started my own company and at least I control what I do and what I get paid.
The second is, and I hesitate to say this on Slashdot, I became a Christian and started to care about people a great deal more.
Things have improved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895399</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256735460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hey, layoff! He's a FAT-ASS you insensitive clod!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , layoff !
He 's a FAT-ASS you insensitive clod !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, layoff!
He's a FAT-ASS you insensitive clod!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894847</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893853</id>
	<title>I stayed in IT, but moved WAY down the food chain.</title>
	<author>toygeek</author>
	<datestamp>1256672880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I worked at a small web hosting firm for 9 years. I started out doing part time tech support. When I had been there 9 years, 2 new owners later, and my colleagues had been fired, and I was the only guy handling 150 web/dns/db/mail servers, and the bulk of tech support, being on call 24/7/365 for 2+ years, and dealing with rude customers I had enough. I hung in there for a while though, but then the new jackass owners messed with my pay and started micromanaging me. *THAT* was the last straw.</p><p>I now work as a mobile computer tech helping grandmas and business owners who don't know anything about computers. Guess what? I'm on the road all the time, seeing the world from a windshield instead of a webcam. People are happy to see me (I'm fixing their broken bookmarks, and their printer/scanner/fax, they need me!) and I rarely am the same place twice in a week.</p><p>How did I handle the change? Well, I admit, I was forced into it a bit. I quit the server admin job rather abruptly and hadn't planned things out. The mobile tech job was a compromise between getting to work in the field I love and making enough money to pay rent.</p><p>I had to move to a much, much smaller home. I went from a 3bdr 2ba condo with a 2 car garage to a 3bdr 2ba apartment with no storage at all. I had to find a new home for my dog. I had to get rid of 2/3 of my belongings. I had to downsize and simplify in ways I never imagined.</p><p>The result? I have far more free time to do things that are more important to me than working. I am able to work on my own personality instead of web servers. I actually started writing (fiction) again. I even *gasp* learned to cross stitch (its fun, like making a picture one pixel at a time.)</p><p>I went from making $55k/yr to $30k/yr, and it has not been easy. But, its been worth it.</p><p>YMMV, standard disclaimers apply.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I worked at a small web hosting firm for 9 years .
I started out doing part time tech support .
When I had been there 9 years , 2 new owners later , and my colleagues had been fired , and I was the only guy handling 150 web/dns/db/mail servers , and the bulk of tech support , being on call 24/7/365 for 2 + years , and dealing with rude customers I had enough .
I hung in there for a while though , but then the new jackass owners messed with my pay and started micromanaging me .
* THAT * was the last straw.I now work as a mobile computer tech helping grandmas and business owners who do n't know anything about computers .
Guess what ?
I 'm on the road all the time , seeing the world from a windshield instead of a webcam .
People are happy to see me ( I 'm fixing their broken bookmarks , and their printer/scanner/fax , they need me !
) and I rarely am the same place twice in a week.How did I handle the change ?
Well , I admit , I was forced into it a bit .
I quit the server admin job rather abruptly and had n't planned things out .
The mobile tech job was a compromise between getting to work in the field I love and making enough money to pay rent.I had to move to a much , much smaller home .
I went from a 3bdr 2ba condo with a 2 car garage to a 3bdr 2ba apartment with no storage at all .
I had to find a new home for my dog .
I had to get rid of 2/3 of my belongings .
I had to downsize and simplify in ways I never imagined.The result ?
I have far more free time to do things that are more important to me than working .
I am able to work on my own personality instead of web servers .
I actually started writing ( fiction ) again .
I even * gasp * learned to cross stitch ( its fun , like making a picture one pixel at a time .
) I went from making $ 55k/yr to $ 30k/yr , and it has not been easy .
But , its been worth it.YMMV , standard disclaimers apply .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worked at a small web hosting firm for 9 years.
I started out doing part time tech support.
When I had been there 9 years, 2 new owners later, and my colleagues had been fired, and I was the only guy handling 150 web/dns/db/mail servers, and the bulk of tech support, being on call 24/7/365 for 2+ years, and dealing with rude customers I had enough.
I hung in there for a while though, but then the new jackass owners messed with my pay and started micromanaging me.
*THAT* was the last straw.I now work as a mobile computer tech helping grandmas and business owners who don't know anything about computers.
Guess what?
I'm on the road all the time, seeing the world from a windshield instead of a webcam.
People are happy to see me (I'm fixing their broken bookmarks, and their printer/scanner/fax, they need me!
) and I rarely am the same place twice in a week.How did I handle the change?
Well, I admit, I was forced into it a bit.
I quit the server admin job rather abruptly and hadn't planned things out.
The mobile tech job was a compromise between getting to work in the field I love and making enough money to pay rent.I had to move to a much, much smaller home.
I went from a 3bdr 2ba condo with a 2 car garage to a 3bdr 2ba apartment with no storage at all.
I had to find a new home for my dog.
I had to get rid of 2/3 of my belongings.
I had to downsize and simplify in ways I never imagined.The result?
I have far more free time to do things that are more important to me than working.
I am able to work on my own personality instead of web servers.
I actually started writing (fiction) again.
I even *gasp* learned to cross stitch (its fun, like making a picture one pixel at a time.
)I went from making $55k/yr to $30k/yr, and it has not been easy.
But, its been worth it.YMMV, standard disclaimers apply.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896809</id>
	<title>The dream career</title>
	<author>jjphtm</author>
	<datestamp>1256742840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>After being laid off from my sysadmin job, it's been the best thing that ever happened in my 12-year IT career since I was also severely burned out. I'm now back at school studying filmmaking heading to an editing career. The IT skills come in super useful, and I get to do something I've always wanted to do. It's all about what you love, and though I learned that lesson the hard way, I'm glad I have the IT experience to back my new career.</htmltext>
<tokenext>After being laid off from my sysadmin job , it 's been the best thing that ever happened in my 12-year IT career since I was also severely burned out .
I 'm now back at school studying filmmaking heading to an editing career .
The IT skills come in super useful , and I get to do something I 've always wanted to do .
It 's all about what you love , and though I learned that lesson the hard way , I 'm glad I have the IT experience to back my new career .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After being laid off from my sysadmin job, it's been the best thing that ever happened in my 12-year IT career since I was also severely burned out.
I'm now back at school studying filmmaking heading to an editing career.
The IT skills come in super useful, and I get to do something I've always wanted to do.
It's all about what you love, and though I learned that lesson the hard way, I'm glad I have the IT experience to back my new career.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29924659</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256921160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>How did it come to this?</p></div><p>What do you mean, come to? Didn't high school teach you that jocks run the world?</p><p>Working hard and being useful just means someone else is working less hard, being less useful, and making more money.  That's life.</p><p>I blame my parents for raising me with morals.</p></div><p>Man....didn't know anybody else felt like this.  I actually feel handicapped because I was raised and taught to "do the right thing".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How did it come to this ? What do you mean , come to ?
Did n't high school teach you that jocks run the world ? Working hard and being useful just means someone else is working less hard , being less useful , and making more money .
That 's life.I blame my parents for raising me with morals.Man....did n't know anybody else felt like this .
I actually feel handicapped because I was raised and taught to " do the right thing " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How did it come to this?What do you mean, come to?
Didn't high school teach you that jocks run the world?Working hard and being useful just means someone else is working less hard, being less useful, and making more money.
That's life.I blame my parents for raising me with morals.Man....didn't know anybody else felt like this.
I actually feel handicapped because I was raised and taught to "do the right thing".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894361</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29899165</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256752500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was in the IT field for almost 20 years, then got fired twice and could not even get an interview. Now I'm working for US Customs and Border Protection. There is a 2 year probation period, with plenty of overtime available and full pay is GS-12 (which is more than I made in IT).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was in the IT field for almost 20 years , then got fired twice and could not even get an interview .
Now I 'm working for US Customs and Border Protection .
There is a 2 year probation period , with plenty of overtime available and full pay is GS-12 ( which is more than I made in IT ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was in the IT field for almost 20 years, then got fired twice and could not even get an interview.
Now I'm working for US Customs and Border Protection.
There is a 2 year probation period, with plenty of overtime available and full pay is GS-12 (which is more than I made in IT).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897361</id>
	<title>Re:Applying economics to job hunting</title>
	<author>foniksonik</author>
	<datestamp>1256744940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The key point here and for any job where you'd like to be treated well... "Get on the Income side of the business".</p><p>If you're on the Income side, you deal with people who are moving up, looking for ways to increase revenue, etc. and will appreciate you. If you're on the Cost side you deal with people running in place trying to cut corners, etc.</p><p>If you succeed on the Income side - you get a bonus. If you succeed on the Cost side - you get a high five at best ("We're trying to save money here, not spend it on bonuses!").</p><p>So whatever job you go looking for, be a part of the business.... not the housekeeping. Housekeepers have always been treated as servants, even if well treated servants.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The key point here and for any job where you 'd like to be treated well... " Get on the Income side of the business " .If you 're on the Income side , you deal with people who are moving up , looking for ways to increase revenue , etc .
and will appreciate you .
If you 're on the Cost side you deal with people running in place trying to cut corners , etc.If you succeed on the Income side - you get a bonus .
If you succeed on the Cost side - you get a high five at best ( " We 're trying to save money here , not spend it on bonuses !
" ) .So whatever job you go looking for , be a part of the business.... not the housekeeping .
Housekeepers have always been treated as servants , even if well treated servants .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The key point here and for any job where you'd like to be treated well... "Get on the Income side of the business".If you're on the Income side, you deal with people who are moving up, looking for ways to increase revenue, etc.
and will appreciate you.
If you're on the Cost side you deal with people running in place trying to cut corners, etc.If you succeed on the Income side - you get a bonus.
If you succeed on the Cost side - you get a high five at best ("We're trying to save money here, not spend it on bonuses!
").So whatever job you go looking for, be a part of the business.... not the housekeeping.
Housekeepers have always been treated as servants, even if well treated servants.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893939</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902379</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256723040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tommy used to work on the docks<br>Union's been on strike, he's down on his luck<br>It's tough, so tough</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tommy used to work on the docksUnion 's been on strike , he 's down on his luckIt 's tough , so tough</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tommy used to work on the docksUnion's been on strike, he's down on his luckIt's tough, so tough</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29899115</id>
	<title>Work environment is also important</title>
	<author>dn15</author>
	<datestamp>1256752320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Great advice. It's also important to make sure you do it in an environment that you like. I got into tech/IT jobs because computers were my hobby, not my actual field of study in college. But I quickly hated each job I got. Either I felt exploited and unappreciated, or I hated an aspect of my job such as too much time spent doing phone support.</p><p>About a year and a half ago I found a job doing IT for a couple technology-heavy K-8 schools. For once I actually enjoy my job -- or at least don't hate getting up in the morning -- because I feel valued and appreciated by the staff and students. And even if I put in unpaid overtime once in a while, at least it feels like it's for a good cause.</p><p>So once you've decided what you enjoy doing, you really need to find a tolerable place to do it. Your coworkers and overall work environment can turn an "I like doing this" job into something you hate overnight.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Great advice .
It 's also important to make sure you do it in an environment that you like .
I got into tech/IT jobs because computers were my hobby , not my actual field of study in college .
But I quickly hated each job I got .
Either I felt exploited and unappreciated , or I hated an aspect of my job such as too much time spent doing phone support.About a year and a half ago I found a job doing IT for a couple technology-heavy K-8 schools .
For once I actually enjoy my job -- or at least do n't hate getting up in the morning -- because I feel valued and appreciated by the staff and students .
And even if I put in unpaid overtime once in a while , at least it feels like it 's for a good cause.So once you 've decided what you enjoy doing , you really need to find a tolerable place to do it .
Your coworkers and overall work environment can turn an " I like doing this " job into something you hate overnight .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great advice.
It's also important to make sure you do it in an environment that you like.
I got into tech/IT jobs because computers were my hobby, not my actual field of study in college.
But I quickly hated each job I got.
Either I felt exploited and unappreciated, or I hated an aspect of my job such as too much time spent doing phone support.About a year and a half ago I found a job doing IT for a couple technology-heavy K-8 schools.
For once I actually enjoy my job -- or at least don't hate getting up in the morning -- because I feel valued and appreciated by the staff and students.
And even if I put in unpaid overtime once in a while, at least it feels like it's for a good cause.So once you've decided what you enjoy doing, you really need to find a tolerable place to do it.
Your coworkers and overall work environment can turn an "I like doing this" job into something you hate overnight.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</id>
	<title>I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256668800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I used to work on the docks in NJ as a longshoreman during the summer and winter breaks from school in the early to mid 1990s.  If I had stayed down there I would have close to 20 years in already, be getting paid close to the same amount I get now considering the hours that I put in plus the extended periods of no work each and every time the economy takes a down turn.  I would have 6 weeks paid vacation every year, great medical, stable work, and no politics or being treated like an overpaid janitor.  Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.

The books are now closed and probably won't be open again for 5 years so even though I still have a union card, I can't get a job down there till federal government determines that it needs more workers thanks to the NYSA, not the union.  I am trying to get a job as a US Customs Agent now.  Sure I ain't going to be making a lot of money, but the benefits, 40 hour work week, and stable steady work means that it actually comes out to about the same as I make now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to work on the docks in NJ as a longshoreman during the summer and winter breaks from school in the early to mid 1990s .
If I had stayed down there I would have close to 20 years in already , be getting paid close to the same amount I get now considering the hours that I put in plus the extended periods of no work each and every time the economy takes a down turn .
I would have 6 weeks paid vacation every year , great medical , stable work , and no politics or being treated like an overpaid janitor .
Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out .
The books are now closed and probably wo n't be open again for 5 years so even though I still have a union card , I ca n't get a job down there till federal government determines that it needs more workers thanks to the NYSA , not the union .
I am trying to get a job as a US Customs Agent now .
Sure I ai n't going to be making a lot of money , but the benefits , 40 hour work week , and stable steady work means that it actually comes out to about the same as I make now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to work on the docks in NJ as a longshoreman during the summer and winter breaks from school in the early to mid 1990s.
If I had stayed down there I would have close to 20 years in already, be getting paid close to the same amount I get now considering the hours that I put in plus the extended periods of no work each and every time the economy takes a down turn.
I would have 6 weeks paid vacation every year, great medical, stable work, and no politics or being treated like an overpaid janitor.
Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.
The books are now closed and probably won't be open again for 5 years so even though I still have a union card, I can't get a job down there till federal government determines that it needs more workers thanks to the NYSA, not the union.
I am trying to get a job as a US Customs Agent now.
Sure I ain't going to be making a lot of money, but the benefits, 40 hour work week, and stable steady work means that it actually comes out to about the same as I make now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900861</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256759220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Introspection/reflection is a good thing that not too many of us do.</p><p>We all need to re-eval every year or so and see if we are who we want to be, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Introspection/reflection is a good thing that not too many of us do.We all need to re-eval every year or so and see if we are who we want to be , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Introspection/reflection is a good thing that not too many of us do.We all need to re-eval every year or so and see if we are who we want to be, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900441</id>
	<title>Almost 10 years in QA, need to leave</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256757600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I work in QA for a large, stable, and boring company (probably one of the best things is to work for a boring company that is stable)...  I don't like drama.  I am highly critical, can hack out scripts do just about anything and can break anything so the job is a good match for me.  My biggest problem is the lack of vacation.  The pay is decent, I don't even have to work that hard most of the time and I don't usually work long hours.  But with only 2.5 weeks of vacation a year for the last 10 years I'm starting to feel like a robot.  I don't even know if I like this job anymore.  And I don't like dreaming in script code all the time.  I don't like the feeling of trying to start up a hobby or outside passion but never really have time to be anything but mediocre.  I get tire of having to constantly stick to routine.  I don't even know what my other possibilities and potentials are with so little time to explore them.  So I will try for a 6 month leave of absence.  If I don't get it, I will quit.  The ten year stint has enable me to completely pay off my home, which makes me idealistically think I could live on a lot less money.  I'm thinking of becoming a surf bum somewhere south of the border for a while.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I work in QA for a large , stable , and boring company ( probably one of the best things is to work for a boring company that is stable ) ... I do n't like drama .
I am highly critical , can hack out scripts do just about anything and can break anything so the job is a good match for me .
My biggest problem is the lack of vacation .
The pay is decent , I do n't even have to work that hard most of the time and I do n't usually work long hours .
But with only 2.5 weeks of vacation a year for the last 10 years I 'm starting to feel like a robot .
I do n't even know if I like this job anymore .
And I do n't like dreaming in script code all the time .
I do n't like the feeling of trying to start up a hobby or outside passion but never really have time to be anything but mediocre .
I get tire of having to constantly stick to routine .
I do n't even know what my other possibilities and potentials are with so little time to explore them .
So I will try for a 6 month leave of absence .
If I do n't get it , I will quit .
The ten year stint has enable me to completely pay off my home , which makes me idealistically think I could live on a lot less money .
I 'm thinking of becoming a surf bum somewhere south of the border for a while .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work in QA for a large, stable, and boring company (probably one of the best things is to work for a boring company that is stable)...  I don't like drama.
I am highly critical, can hack out scripts do just about anything and can break anything so the job is a good match for me.
My biggest problem is the lack of vacation.
The pay is decent, I don't even have to work that hard most of the time and I don't usually work long hours.
But with only 2.5 weeks of vacation a year for the last 10 years I'm starting to feel like a robot.
I don't even know if I like this job anymore.
And I don't like dreaming in script code all the time.
I don't like the feeling of trying to start up a hobby or outside passion but never really have time to be anything but mediocre.
I get tire of having to constantly stick to routine.
I don't even know what my other possibilities and potentials are with so little time to explore them.
So I will try for a 6 month leave of absence.
If I don't get it, I will quit.
The ten year stint has enable me to completely pay off my home, which makes me idealistically think I could live on a lot less money.
I'm thinking of becoming a surf bum somewhere south of the border for a while.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893705</id>
	<title>I went from</title>
	<author>future assassin</author>
	<datestamp>1256671200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>working for a local ISP for 3 years were I originally was hired to do web page design only/ I ended up doing web page design, billing, sales and answering 100 support calls per day. Yah burnt out pretty good and quit. Two weeks later I got hired at a local hydroponics store. Then after several years I ended up as the manager of that store which was a part of a chain of stores. Seven years at that company I quit over employee bonuses not being paid out and other bullshit and went to a another local smaller hydro store as a manager with the same pay as before.</p><p>So now I have the best of both worlds. I get to work at a very relaxed environment get paid better then most people and run a few web sites for my new employer. One of the sites is an e-commerce site and once its set up I get 50\% of the profits that come in from on-line sales.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>working for a local ISP for 3 years were I originally was hired to do web page design only/ I ended up doing web page design , billing , sales and answering 100 support calls per day .
Yah burnt out pretty good and quit .
Two weeks later I got hired at a local hydroponics store .
Then after several years I ended up as the manager of that store which was a part of a chain of stores .
Seven years at that company I quit over employee bonuses not being paid out and other bullshit and went to a another local smaller hydro store as a manager with the same pay as before.So now I have the best of both worlds .
I get to work at a very relaxed environment get paid better then most people and run a few web sites for my new employer .
One of the sites is an e-commerce site and once its set up I get 50 \ % of the profits that come in from on-line sales .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>working for a local ISP for 3 years were I originally was hired to do web page design only/ I ended up doing web page design, billing, sales and answering 100 support calls per day.
Yah burnt out pretty good and quit.
Two weeks later I got hired at a local hydroponics store.
Then after several years I ended up as the manager of that store which was a part of a chain of stores.
Seven years at that company I quit over employee bonuses not being paid out and other bullshit and went to a another local smaller hydro store as a manager with the same pay as before.So now I have the best of both worlds.
I get to work at a very relaxed environment get paid better then most people and run a few web sites for my new employer.
One of the sites is an e-commerce site and once its set up I get 50\% of the profits that come in from on-line sales.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896985</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256743380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Daymm!<br>I resemble that remark.  Thanks for giving me something to think about, as thats just where I'm at pretty much.  Right at the bottom of that Dionsyios valley.</p><p>I like the quote at the end too!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Daymm ! I resemble that remark .
Thanks for giving me something to think about , as thats just where I 'm at pretty much .
Right at the bottom of that Dionsyios valley.I like the quote at the end too !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Daymm!I resemble that remark.
Thanks for giving me something to think about, as thats just where I'm at pretty much.
Right at the bottom of that Dionsyios valley.I like the quote at the end too!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898849</id>
	<title>Don't blame Ayn Rand for this one .....</title>
	<author>King\_TJ</author>
	<datestamp>1256751180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to strongly disagree with you.  You're making the false assumption that I.T. workers are continually "under-bidding" each other in a "race to the bottom".  I'm finding that entire premise really hard to comprehend.  I've worked in I.T. for close to 20 years now, straight through the whole<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.COM rise and fall, the whole Y2K scare, and many other things.  What I've seen is more of a case of industry making adjustments to the economic realities of their situation over time.</p><p>During the "glory days" of I.T. when people were commanding huge salaries and calling the shots in many businesses, you were also in the heyday of computers and I.T. adding BIG changes to the way things worked.  Companies that had never really "computerized" before were suddenly discovering things like "sales force automation software", ERP packages, network and Internet faxing, computer-based training, and were inter-connecting with other businesses over broadband Internet connections which were just becoming "standard issue" for everyone.  Given all of that, it was pretty EASY for a manager to show big "returns on investment" with his/her I.T. staff.</p><p>After all of that became "standard practice" for everyone though, the competitive edge for introducing it was over.  Businesses were largely left paying I.T. people big salaries and waiting for the "next big improvement" they'd bring to the table -- but not really getting one.  Everything moved to more of a "maintenance mode", with I.T. staff spending most of their time ensuring the technologies they implemented kept working properly (and often, finding out they didn't work as advertised - meaning more expenses switching them out for other solutions that actually did what they promised!).</p><p>I really don't know anyone in I.T. today who is willingly asking for a lower salary than they used to get, simply because they're trying to "out compete" other applicants.  It's more of a situation of businesses drawing a line, saying "No way we're paying 6 figures anymore for this type of work!  We did that in the late 90's and maybe it made sense then, but I.T. is much more of a "necessary cost of doing business" now, vs. a driver of innovative ways to cut costs."  If you keep submitting resumes asking for salary $X and nobody calls you back, you finally give in and try asking for $X - Y, until people start responding.</p><p>Revolutionary changes don't happen on a consistent, regular basis<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....  True for I.T. as well as any other field.  I think I.T. is in a more mature, stable part of the business cycle right now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to strongly disagree with you .
You 're making the false assumption that I.T .
workers are continually " under-bidding " each other in a " race to the bottom " .
I 'm finding that entire premise really hard to comprehend .
I 've worked in I.T .
for close to 20 years now , straight through the whole .COM rise and fall , the whole Y2K scare , and many other things .
What I 've seen is more of a case of industry making adjustments to the economic realities of their situation over time.During the " glory days " of I.T .
when people were commanding huge salaries and calling the shots in many businesses , you were also in the heyday of computers and I.T .
adding BIG changes to the way things worked .
Companies that had never really " computerized " before were suddenly discovering things like " sales force automation software " , ERP packages , network and Internet faxing , computer-based training , and were inter-connecting with other businesses over broadband Internet connections which were just becoming " standard issue " for everyone .
Given all of that , it was pretty EASY for a manager to show big " returns on investment " with his/her I.T .
staff.After all of that became " standard practice " for everyone though , the competitive edge for introducing it was over .
Businesses were largely left paying I.T .
people big salaries and waiting for the " next big improvement " they 'd bring to the table -- but not really getting one .
Everything moved to more of a " maintenance mode " , with I.T .
staff spending most of their time ensuring the technologies they implemented kept working properly ( and often , finding out they did n't work as advertised - meaning more expenses switching them out for other solutions that actually did what they promised !
) .I really do n't know anyone in I.T .
today who is willingly asking for a lower salary than they used to get , simply because they 're trying to " out compete " other applicants .
It 's more of a situation of businesses drawing a line , saying " No way we 're paying 6 figures anymore for this type of work !
We did that in the late 90 's and maybe it made sense then , but I.T .
is much more of a " necessary cost of doing business " now , vs. a driver of innovative ways to cut costs .
" If you keep submitting resumes asking for salary $ X and nobody calls you back , you finally give in and try asking for $ X - Y , until people start responding.Revolutionary changes do n't happen on a consistent , regular basis .... True for I.T .
as well as any other field .
I think I.T .
is in a more mature , stable part of the business cycle right now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to strongly disagree with you.
You're making the false assumption that I.T.
workers are continually "under-bidding" each other in a "race to the bottom".
I'm finding that entire premise really hard to comprehend.
I've worked in I.T.
for close to 20 years now, straight through the whole .COM rise and fall, the whole Y2K scare, and many other things.
What I've seen is more of a case of industry making adjustments to the economic realities of their situation over time.During the "glory days" of I.T.
when people were commanding huge salaries and calling the shots in many businesses, you were also in the heyday of computers and I.T.
adding BIG changes to the way things worked.
Companies that had never really "computerized" before were suddenly discovering things like "sales force automation software", ERP packages, network and Internet faxing, computer-based training, and were inter-connecting with other businesses over broadband Internet connections which were just becoming "standard issue" for everyone.
Given all of that, it was pretty EASY for a manager to show big "returns on investment" with his/her I.T.
staff.After all of that became "standard practice" for everyone though, the competitive edge for introducing it was over.
Businesses were largely left paying I.T.
people big salaries and waiting for the "next big improvement" they'd bring to the table -- but not really getting one.
Everything moved to more of a "maintenance mode", with I.T.
staff spending most of their time ensuring the technologies they implemented kept working properly (and often, finding out they didn't work as advertised - meaning more expenses switching them out for other solutions that actually did what they promised!
).I really don't know anyone in I.T.
today who is willingly asking for a lower salary than they used to get, simply because they're trying to "out compete" other applicants.
It's more of a situation of businesses drawing a line, saying "No way we're paying 6 figures anymore for this type of work!
We did that in the late 90's and maybe it made sense then, but I.T.
is much more of a "necessary cost of doing business" now, vs. a driver of innovative ways to cut costs.
"  If you keep submitting resumes asking for salary $X and nobody calls you back, you finally give in and try asking for $X - Y, until people start responding.Revolutionary changes don't happen on a consistent, regular basis ....  True for I.T.
as well as any other field.
I think I.T.
is in a more mature, stable part of the business cycle right now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895055</id>
	<title>Getting "Down to Earth"</title>
	<author>stereoroid</author>
	<datestamp>1256732580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I left IT in 2007 to take an Engineering degree - specifically, one in the Structural Engineering field, hence the "down to earth" joke I keep using, because my studies include soils and foundations. My IT career was going nowhere, at least partly because I didn't have any degree before this, but also because I saw no opportunity for advancement within IT. To get anywhere at the (large US) IT company I was at, I would have had to go in to people management, which I did not want to do for different reasons. The managers at the company were no happier either, and I don't think I have the required "people skills" (lying, scapegoating, sucking up, etc). For various personal reasons, including health, I wanted out of the "virtual world" and back in to the "real world", where I could be around real things and real people. (We'll see how that works out!)</p><p>Future? What future? The Great Recession has put many in Engineering-related industries out of work, and as for Construction<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... fuhgeddabouttit. I'm fortunate in that I saved heavily for years before starting university. I'm a UK citizen living in a country (Ireland) where tuition on first degrees is paid by the govt., though there are other charges. The cost of living in Dublin is no joke either, but I'm managing, and hope to come out debt-free. I should have a B.Sc (Hons) by next June, and will probably stay for two more years for a Master's (which is not free). What else can I do? It's not as if employers are going to need me next year<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I left IT in 2007 to take an Engineering degree - specifically , one in the Structural Engineering field , hence the " down to earth " joke I keep using , because my studies include soils and foundations .
My IT career was going nowhere , at least partly because I did n't have any degree before this , but also because I saw no opportunity for advancement within IT .
To get anywhere at the ( large US ) IT company I was at , I would have had to go in to people management , which I did not want to do for different reasons .
The managers at the company were no happier either , and I do n't think I have the required " people skills " ( lying , scapegoating , sucking up , etc ) .
For various personal reasons , including health , I wanted out of the " virtual world " and back in to the " real world " , where I could be around real things and real people .
( We 'll see how that works out ! ) Future ?
What future ?
The Great Recession has put many in Engineering-related industries out of work , and as for Construction ... fuhgeddabouttit. I 'm fortunate in that I saved heavily for years before starting university .
I 'm a UK citizen living in a country ( Ireland ) where tuition on first degrees is paid by the govt. , though there are other charges .
The cost of living in Dublin is no joke either , but I 'm managing , and hope to come out debt-free .
I should have a B.Sc ( Hons ) by next June , and will probably stay for two more years for a Master 's ( which is not free ) .
What else can I do ?
It 's not as if employers are going to need me next year .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I left IT in 2007 to take an Engineering degree - specifically, one in the Structural Engineering field, hence the "down to earth" joke I keep using, because my studies include soils and foundations.
My IT career was going nowhere, at least partly because I didn't have any degree before this, but also because I saw no opportunity for advancement within IT.
To get anywhere at the (large US) IT company I was at, I would have had to go in to people management, which I did not want to do for different reasons.
The managers at the company were no happier either, and I don't think I have the required "people skills" (lying, scapegoating, sucking up, etc).
For various personal reasons, including health, I wanted out of the "virtual world" and back in to the "real world", where I could be around real things and real people.
(We'll see how that works out!)Future?
What future?
The Great Recession has put many in Engineering-related industries out of work, and as for Construction ... fuhgeddabouttit. I'm fortunate in that I saved heavily for years before starting university.
I'm a UK citizen living in a country (Ireland) where tuition on first degrees is paid by the govt., though there are other charges.
The cost of living in Dublin is no joke either, but I'm managing, and hope to come out debt-free.
I should have a B.Sc (Hons) by next June, and will probably stay for two more years for a Master's (which is not free).
What else can I do?
It's not as if employers are going to need me next year ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893909</id>
	<title>Unions/trades</title>
	<author>4eak</author>
	<datestamp>1256760180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I went from being a network administrator of a small school district (7 schools, 1000 to 1500 computers, just me) to working as a union cable installer. <br>
The good: I work for a small family company. I get to work in a somewhat informal environment with a group of likeable misfits and some people who are just darn good. I show up and work hard and smart (as possible), and I go home feeling like I earned my pay and 'helped out the team.' I take almost none of it home with me. I am off work by 3:30-4:00. We change jobsites sometimes once and sometimes 60 times a year, I find the variety stimulating. YMMV The pay is quite decent, even though we communications guys are lower paid than the union electricians. The work is physical, sometimes you just have to crawl under that frat-house with the cable tied to your belt loop, or something. The plus side of this is how much easier it is to stay reasonably fit. Climbing up and down a ladder all day as well as carrying ladders and materials around can be pretty good exercise. Medical HMO-Style, Dental, Vision.
<br>
The bad: Getting to work at 6 to 7 in the morning can be tough until you adjust to it. Sometimes you have to do something downright disgusting or even a little dangerous, but at least these things usually make for good stories. If there isn't enough work to go around, you can be laid off by your employer and in tough times, it can be a while before you get sent to another job. Leading me to the unions. Again, YMMV.  I'm told ours is one of the better trade unions to be in, but we have: No paid leave of any kind. You don't work, you don't get paid, and if you're out of work for long enough, your benefits are no longer paid for. I also just get the general impression that Union administrations tend toward barrel-assed, protect-my-cushy-desk-job, pettily corrupt kinds of entities. Not saying they all are, but there's a smell of it about. A great deal depends on which Union, and likely, which Local. Also, most people have to go through an apprenticeship that can last from 3 years (Communication installer) to 5 years (Inside Wireman (Electrician)). During your apprenticeship you will make more like $14 to $20 an hour (depending on the trade, some probably even make more!), instead of the Journeyman rate of around $28 to $45-50 and up.
<br>
My verdict: I like my job now. It is a tonic after coming from a fairly hectic and stressful job. But I am in my thirties now. I have very little desire to still be working this hard with my body when I am in my fifties. In the end I think it's better to be paid for your smarts, so you can save your body for the fun stuff.

myzerotwo</htmltext>
<tokenext>I went from being a network administrator of a small school district ( 7 schools , 1000 to 1500 computers , just me ) to working as a union cable installer .
The good : I work for a small family company .
I get to work in a somewhat informal environment with a group of likeable misfits and some people who are just darn good .
I show up and work hard and smart ( as possible ) , and I go home feeling like I earned my pay and 'helped out the team .
' I take almost none of it home with me .
I am off work by 3 : 30-4 : 00 .
We change jobsites sometimes once and sometimes 60 times a year , I find the variety stimulating .
YMMV The pay is quite decent , even though we communications guys are lower paid than the union electricians .
The work is physical , sometimes you just have to crawl under that frat-house with the cable tied to your belt loop , or something .
The plus side of this is how much easier it is to stay reasonably fit .
Climbing up and down a ladder all day as well as carrying ladders and materials around can be pretty good exercise .
Medical HMO-Style , Dental , Vision .
The bad : Getting to work at 6 to 7 in the morning can be tough until you adjust to it .
Sometimes you have to do something downright disgusting or even a little dangerous , but at least these things usually make for good stories .
If there is n't enough work to go around , you can be laid off by your employer and in tough times , it can be a while before you get sent to another job .
Leading me to the unions .
Again , YMMV .
I 'm told ours is one of the better trade unions to be in , but we have : No paid leave of any kind .
You do n't work , you do n't get paid , and if you 're out of work for long enough , your benefits are no longer paid for .
I also just get the general impression that Union administrations tend toward barrel-assed , protect-my-cushy-desk-job , pettily corrupt kinds of entities .
Not saying they all are , but there 's a smell of it about .
A great deal depends on which Union , and likely , which Local .
Also , most people have to go through an apprenticeship that can last from 3 years ( Communication installer ) to 5 years ( Inside Wireman ( Electrician ) ) .
During your apprenticeship you will make more like $ 14 to $ 20 an hour ( depending on the trade , some probably even make more !
) , instead of the Journeyman rate of around $ 28 to $ 45-50 and up .
My verdict : I like my job now .
It is a tonic after coming from a fairly hectic and stressful job .
But I am in my thirties now .
I have very little desire to still be working this hard with my body when I am in my fifties .
In the end I think it 's better to be paid for your smarts , so you can save your body for the fun stuff .
myzerotwo</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went from being a network administrator of a small school district (7 schools, 1000 to 1500 computers, just me) to working as a union cable installer.
The good: I work for a small family company.
I get to work in a somewhat informal environment with a group of likeable misfits and some people who are just darn good.
I show up and work hard and smart (as possible), and I go home feeling like I earned my pay and 'helped out the team.
' I take almost none of it home with me.
I am off work by 3:30-4:00.
We change jobsites sometimes once and sometimes 60 times a year, I find the variety stimulating.
YMMV The pay is quite decent, even though we communications guys are lower paid than the union electricians.
The work is physical, sometimes you just have to crawl under that frat-house with the cable tied to your belt loop, or something.
The plus side of this is how much easier it is to stay reasonably fit.
Climbing up and down a ladder all day as well as carrying ladders and materials around can be pretty good exercise.
Medical HMO-Style, Dental, Vision.
The bad: Getting to work at 6 to 7 in the morning can be tough until you adjust to it.
Sometimes you have to do something downright disgusting or even a little dangerous, but at least these things usually make for good stories.
If there isn't enough work to go around, you can be laid off by your employer and in tough times, it can be a while before you get sent to another job.
Leading me to the unions.
Again, YMMV.
I'm told ours is one of the better trade unions to be in, but we have: No paid leave of any kind.
You don't work, you don't get paid, and if you're out of work for long enough, your benefits are no longer paid for.
I also just get the general impression that Union administrations tend toward barrel-assed, protect-my-cushy-desk-job, pettily corrupt kinds of entities.
Not saying they all are, but there's a smell of it about.
A great deal depends on which Union, and likely, which Local.
Also, most people have to go through an apprenticeship that can last from 3 years (Communication installer) to 5 years (Inside Wireman (Electrician)).
During your apprenticeship you will make more like $14 to $20 an hour (depending on the trade, some probably even make more!
), instead of the Journeyman rate of around $28 to $45-50 and up.
My verdict: I like my job now.
It is a tonic after coming from a fairly hectic and stressful job.
But I am in my thirties now.
I have very little desire to still be working this hard with my body when I am in my fifties.
In the end I think it's better to be paid for your smarts, so you can save your body for the fun stuff.
myzerotwo</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894891</id>
	<title>Re:Allow me to summarize</title>
	<author>LukeCrawford</author>
	<datestamp>1256730840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. the money is pretty good, at least for us UNIX janitors.  six figures for a guy who never shows up before 11 and barely made it through highschool (that's me)  is hard to beat in most fields.  (of course, this is Silicon Valley;  you're taking a 30\% paycut if you are inland.)   I don't know of anything outside sales where being self taught (and obviously good) carries as much respect as it does in IT.</p><p>2. standards for dress and social skills are low.    My uniform consists of a company T shirt (not the same shirt... I have 7 of them, really!)  worn jeans, and heavy boots with a heel grounder.    I shave once a month and cut my hair less often.    People are okay with me saying things like "the vendor is trying to lock you in so they can screw you"  (my favorite luke quote is "If you single-source anything, the company you our buying from has a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to screw you.)</p><p>3. the white guy bonus (By which I mean, the premium you get for being on site, and a native speaker of the language.  It has more to do with accent and the patience to understand accents than anything else.)   is giant.     When the boss was born in the Philippians and half the tech staff was born in India or China, being willing to say "what?"  and repeating back what people have said so that you actually know what the hell is going on means that you can become massively more valuable than average by just being slightly less racist and taking a few minutes to understand what someone is trying to say.    Really, dealing with an accent is much less difficult than dealing with a non-technical, in my mind.  Besides the funny talking foreigners make lunch time much more interesting.   Like the song says, we're all a little bit racist, but if you can keep it in your pants while you are at work, you are ahead of the game.   Most people can't.</p><p>4. there is room for both gristled experts who have been doing the same thing since the 70s, and neophiles who get bored after three years.   Some things are always changing but some things are the same.  (I know guys who have been using UNIX like operating systems longer than I have been drawing breath.  Their skills are still relevant.)</p><p>Personally, I believe *NIX skills to be much more durable, time-wise, than Microsoft skills, simply because you can follow it down to what is actually happening (something that I believe is difficult to do on a windows system.)  and while the interfaces change fairly rapidly both in *NIX and Windows, what the system actually does changes very slowly.</p><p>5. Outsourcing is more difficult than you think.  One place was trying to outsource all their IT.  they were trying the first time I worked for them;  I left for greener pastures a  year later.  A year later, I came back and worked for this company again.  It wasn't until I had been working for another year before they got an outsourcing firm that was worth anything at all.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>1. the money is pretty good , at least for us UNIX janitors .
six figures for a guy who never shows up before 11 and barely made it through highschool ( that 's me ) is hard to beat in most fields .
( of course , this is Silicon Valley ; you 're taking a 30 \ % paycut if you are inland .
) I do n't know of anything outside sales where being self taught ( and obviously good ) carries as much respect as it does in IT.2 .
standards for dress and social skills are low .
My uniform consists of a company T shirt ( not the same shirt... I have 7 of them , really !
) worn jeans , and heavy boots with a heel grounder .
I shave once a month and cut my hair less often .
People are okay with me saying things like " the vendor is trying to lock you in so they can screw you " ( my favorite luke quote is " If you single-source anything , the company you our buying from has a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to screw you. ) 3 .
the white guy bonus ( By which I mean , the premium you get for being on site , and a native speaker of the language .
It has more to do with accent and the patience to understand accents than anything else .
) is giant .
When the boss was born in the Philippians and half the tech staff was born in India or China , being willing to say " what ?
" and repeating back what people have said so that you actually know what the hell is going on means that you can become massively more valuable than average by just being slightly less racist and taking a few minutes to understand what someone is trying to say .
Really , dealing with an accent is much less difficult than dealing with a non-technical , in my mind .
Besides the funny talking foreigners make lunch time much more interesting .
Like the song says , we 're all a little bit racist , but if you can keep it in your pants while you are at work , you are ahead of the game .
Most people ca n't.4 .
there is room for both gristled experts who have been doing the same thing since the 70s , and neophiles who get bored after three years .
Some things are always changing but some things are the same .
( I know guys who have been using UNIX like operating systems longer than I have been drawing breath .
Their skills are still relevant .
) Personally , I believe * NIX skills to be much more durable , time-wise , than Microsoft skills , simply because you can follow it down to what is actually happening ( something that I believe is difficult to do on a windows system .
) and while the interfaces change fairly rapidly both in * NIX and Windows , what the system actually does changes very slowly.5 .
Outsourcing is more difficult than you think .
One place was trying to outsource all their IT .
they were trying the first time I worked for them ; I left for greener pastures a year later .
A year later , I came back and worked for this company again .
It was n't until I had been working for another year before they got an outsourcing firm that was worth anything at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1. the money is pretty good, at least for us UNIX janitors.
six figures for a guy who never shows up before 11 and barely made it through highschool (that's me)  is hard to beat in most fields.
(of course, this is Silicon Valley;  you're taking a 30\% paycut if you are inland.
)   I don't know of anything outside sales where being self taught (and obviously good) carries as much respect as it does in IT.2.
standards for dress and social skills are low.
My uniform consists of a company T shirt (not the same shirt... I have 7 of them, really!
)  worn jeans, and heavy boots with a heel grounder.
I shave once a month and cut my hair less often.
People are okay with me saying things like "the vendor is trying to lock you in so they can screw you"  (my favorite luke quote is "If you single-source anything, the company you our buying from has a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to screw you.)3.
the white guy bonus (By which I mean, the premium you get for being on site, and a native speaker of the language.
It has more to do with accent and the patience to understand accents than anything else.
)   is giant.
When the boss was born in the Philippians and half the tech staff was born in India or China, being willing to say "what?
"  and repeating back what people have said so that you actually know what the hell is going on means that you can become massively more valuable than average by just being slightly less racist and taking a few minutes to understand what someone is trying to say.
Really, dealing with an accent is much less difficult than dealing with a non-technical, in my mind.
Besides the funny talking foreigners make lunch time much more interesting.
Like the song says, we're all a little bit racist, but if you can keep it in your pants while you are at work, you are ahead of the game.
Most people can't.4.
there is room for both gristled experts who have been doing the same thing since the 70s, and neophiles who get bored after three years.
Some things are always changing but some things are the same.
(I know guys who have been using UNIX like operating systems longer than I have been drawing breath.
Their skills are still relevant.
)Personally, I believe *NIX skills to be much more durable, time-wise, than Microsoft skills, simply because you can follow it down to what is actually happening (something that I believe is difficult to do on a windows system.
)  and while the interfaces change fairly rapidly both in *NIX and Windows, what the system actually does changes very slowly.5.
Outsourcing is more difficult than you think.
One place was trying to outsource all their IT.
they were trying the first time I worked for them;  I left for greener pastures a  year later.
A year later, I came back and worked for this company again.
It wasn't until I had been working for another year before they got an outsourcing firm that was worth anything at all.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893761</id>
	<title>To hell with Tech, ive gone to Booze.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256671800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After 20 years of retail sales, service, and corporate planning, i gave up.  Ive seen too much change in technology, and no change in my clients. They still think computers work as if they are on Star Trek. Clueless about the machines that help them run their businesses and their lives, so leave them. After all this time Ive decided im in this for me.  So now I sell liquor. come hell or high water people buy booze. No one calls that their wine needs to be rebooted. if any one thinks the product is bad, tell them to use more, and then they feel better.</p><p>Dude do anything different. Just don't bother with IT anymore, the client base is way too unappreciative</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After 20 years of retail sales , service , and corporate planning , i gave up .
Ive seen too much change in technology , and no change in my clients .
They still think computers work as if they are on Star Trek .
Clueless about the machines that help them run their businesses and their lives , so leave them .
After all this time Ive decided im in this for me .
So now I sell liquor .
come hell or high water people buy booze .
No one calls that their wine needs to be rebooted .
if any one thinks the product is bad , tell them to use more , and then they feel better.Dude do anything different .
Just do n't bother with IT anymore , the client base is way too unappreciative</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After 20 years of retail sales, service, and corporate planning, i gave up.
Ive seen too much change in technology, and no change in my clients.
They still think computers work as if they are on Star Trek.
Clueless about the machines that help them run their businesses and their lives, so leave them.
After all this time Ive decided im in this for me.
So now I sell liquor.
come hell or high water people buy booze.
No one calls that their wine needs to be rebooted.
if any one thinks the product is bad, tell them to use more, and then they feel better.Dude do anything different.
Just don't bother with IT anymore, the client base is way too unappreciative</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896767</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256742660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can identify with your former 'morning affirmation' and how easy it would be if it wasn't for that pesky family<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:).</p><p>I've been in IT for 20 years(!) now and have been thinking of getting out it for the last 10.  I'm finally taking steps to do so.  My first step: figuring out if it's the field of IT that I hate or the actual company I work for.  I left my former employer of 10 years to go to a company that has a much better track record in the employee satisfaction department. After 6 months here, I've decided that it's the IT field I'm sick of  - the employer is great, but I still can't stand what I do.</p><p>It would be great if I could take some time off to 'find myself' but the steady paycheque I need to keep food in the fridge for the family kinda puts a damper on that idea.</p><p>I'm now looking into the field of NDT/NDE. It only requires a month of training to start as  a 'trainee' and after working in the field for about 2 years, I can be making more than I am now.  Which is pretty sad when you think about it: NDT personnel with 2 years experience makes more than 20 years IT experience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can identify with your former 'morning affirmation ' and how easy it would be if it was n't for that pesky family : ) .I 've been in IT for 20 years ( !
) now and have been thinking of getting out it for the last 10 .
I 'm finally taking steps to do so .
My first step : figuring out if it 's the field of IT that I hate or the actual company I work for .
I left my former employer of 10 years to go to a company that has a much better track record in the employee satisfaction department .
After 6 months here , I 've decided that it 's the IT field I 'm sick of - the employer is great , but I still ca n't stand what I do.It would be great if I could take some time off to 'find myself ' but the steady paycheque I need to keep food in the fridge for the family kinda puts a damper on that idea.I 'm now looking into the field of NDT/NDE .
It only requires a month of training to start as a 'trainee ' and after working in the field for about 2 years , I can be making more than I am now .
Which is pretty sad when you think about it : NDT personnel with 2 years experience makes more than 20 years IT experience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can identify with your former 'morning affirmation' and how easy it would be if it wasn't for that pesky family :).I've been in IT for 20 years(!
) now and have been thinking of getting out it for the last 10.
I'm finally taking steps to do so.
My first step: figuring out if it's the field of IT that I hate or the actual company I work for.
I left my former employer of 10 years to go to a company that has a much better track record in the employee satisfaction department.
After 6 months here, I've decided that it's the IT field I'm sick of  - the employer is great, but I still can't stand what I do.It would be great if I could take some time off to 'find myself' but the steady paycheque I need to keep food in the fridge for the family kinda puts a damper on that idea.I'm now looking into the field of NDT/NDE.
It only requires a month of training to start as  a 'trainee' and after working in the field for about 2 years, I can be making more than I am now.
Which is pretty sad when you think about it: NDT personnel with 2 years experience makes more than 20 years IT experience.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893631</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256670180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I get respect because I dropped the attitude you currently are showing.</p><p>IT doesn't generate any revenue.  We are infrastructure.  We are rent but we have souls, and feelings and personalities.</p><p>I make conversations. I make friends.  No one should know command lines or registry hacks or why their Internet is slow.  That's my job and it is up to me to explain it well to them.</p><p>As for people getting paid more - that's because they are more valuable to the company's viability.</p><p>Having known 6, 7 and 8 figure salary folks I can assure you that you can't do their jobs.  I'm sorry if you don't think that's fair.  You and your job are replaceable but those highly paid folks require high levels of experience, intelligence and competence (and connections).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I get respect because I dropped the attitude you currently are showing.IT does n't generate any revenue .
We are infrastructure .
We are rent but we have souls , and feelings and personalities.I make conversations .
I make friends .
No one should know command lines or registry hacks or why their Internet is slow .
That 's my job and it is up to me to explain it well to them.As for people getting paid more - that 's because they are more valuable to the company 's viability.Having known 6 , 7 and 8 figure salary folks I can assure you that you ca n't do their jobs .
I 'm sorry if you do n't think that 's fair .
You and your job are replaceable but those highly paid folks require high levels of experience , intelligence and competence ( and connections ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I get respect because I dropped the attitude you currently are showing.IT doesn't generate any revenue.
We are infrastructure.
We are rent but we have souls, and feelings and personalities.I make conversations.
I make friends.
No one should know command lines or registry hacks or why their Internet is slow.
That's my job and it is up to me to explain it well to them.As for people getting paid more - that's because they are more valuable to the company's viability.Having known 6, 7 and 8 figure salary folks I can assure you that you can't do their jobs.
I'm sorry if you don't think that's fair.
You and your job are replaceable but those highly paid folks require high levels of experience, intelligence and competence (and connections).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29923861</id>
	<title>Leave the country and downsize your life</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256917980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After 13 high pressure years at a major university and 3 more years in an IT executive position, At 37, I had had enough of it all.  I sold my house, quit my job, liquidated most of what I owned and moved to Costa Rica.  Life is relatively cheap but if I did it again, I'd move to Nicaragua where the costs are 1/3 of  Costa Rica.  Anyhow...the point is, don't let your job run your life.  Work to live don't live to work.  I still do a little consulting remotely.  It earns enough to put beer in the fridge and pay the bills.  It is a drastic step but considering the direction the government and the economy are heading, I'd rather be watching the disintegration from the sidelines than getting sucked down with the ship when it sinks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After 13 high pressure years at a major university and 3 more years in an IT executive position , At 37 , I had had enough of it all .
I sold my house , quit my job , liquidated most of what I owned and moved to Costa Rica .
Life is relatively cheap but if I did it again , I 'd move to Nicaragua where the costs are 1/3 of Costa Rica .
Anyhow...the point is , do n't let your job run your life .
Work to live do n't live to work .
I still do a little consulting remotely .
It earns enough to put beer in the fridge and pay the bills .
It is a drastic step but considering the direction the government and the economy are heading , I 'd rather be watching the disintegration from the sidelines than getting sucked down with the ship when it sinks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After 13 high pressure years at a major university and 3 more years in an IT executive position, At 37, I had had enough of it all.
I sold my house, quit my job, liquidated most of what I owned and moved to Costa Rica.
Life is relatively cheap but if I did it again, I'd move to Nicaragua where the costs are 1/3 of  Costa Rica.
Anyhow...the point is, don't let your job run your life.
Work to live don't live to work.
I still do a little consulting remotely.
It earns enough to put beer in the fridge and pay the bills.
It is a drastic step but considering the direction the government and the economy are heading, I'd rather be watching the disintegration from the sidelines than getting sucked down with the ship when it sinks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898599</id>
	<title>Just a question....</title>
	<author>magbottle</author>
	<datestamp>1256750100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's IT?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's IT ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's IT?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896833</id>
	<title>Find a passion</title>
	<author>MhzJnky</author>
	<datestamp>1256742900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am in the last year of an MDiv program and moving towards Ordained Ministry in the United Methodist Church.  My undergrad was in Comptuer Science and I was a software engeenier and project manager for almost a decade.  For me I just couldn't stand being locked in the office all day and started to explore what I found really interesting and rewarding.  I was volunteering at my church at the time and decided that I was feeling called to make it my profession.</p><p>I would say find that thing that holds your interest, that you'd get great satisfaction out of, and find a way to make it your job.  Careers should be about a lot more than money.  They should stir something in you which has its own rewards.  Yes, you'll not be able to buy as much.  Though, ask yourself, do all the things you buy really make your life better or are they just a means to distract yourself from the job you dislike.</p><p>We did have to sell our home and move into a small apartment while at school and their won't be any new cars for a long while, but it was well worth it.  I've been busier the last three years than I have ever been, yet at the same time happier and more excited about life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am in the last year of an MDiv program and moving towards Ordained Ministry in the United Methodist Church .
My undergrad was in Comptuer Science and I was a software engeenier and project manager for almost a decade .
For me I just could n't stand being locked in the office all day and started to explore what I found really interesting and rewarding .
I was volunteering at my church at the time and decided that I was feeling called to make it my profession.I would say find that thing that holds your interest , that you 'd get great satisfaction out of , and find a way to make it your job .
Careers should be about a lot more than money .
They should stir something in you which has its own rewards .
Yes , you 'll not be able to buy as much .
Though , ask yourself , do all the things you buy really make your life better or are they just a means to distract yourself from the job you dislike.We did have to sell our home and move into a small apartment while at school and their wo n't be any new cars for a long while , but it was well worth it .
I 've been busier the last three years than I have ever been , yet at the same time happier and more excited about life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am in the last year of an MDiv program and moving towards Ordained Ministry in the United Methodist Church.
My undergrad was in Comptuer Science and I was a software engeenier and project manager for almost a decade.
For me I just couldn't stand being locked in the office all day and started to explore what I found really interesting and rewarding.
I was volunteering at my church at the time and decided that I was feeling called to make it my profession.I would say find that thing that holds your interest, that you'd get great satisfaction out of, and find a way to make it your job.
Careers should be about a lot more than money.
They should stir something in you which has its own rewards.
Yes, you'll not be able to buy as much.
Though, ask yourself, do all the things you buy really make your life better or are they just a means to distract yourself from the job you dislike.We did have to sell our home and move into a small apartment while at school and their won't be any new cars for a long while, but it was well worth it.
I've been busier the last three years than I have ever been, yet at the same time happier and more excited about life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29909725</id>
	<title>Shift!</title>
	<author>ResidentSourcerer</author>
	<datestamp>1256828760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm starting my third career.</p><p>I started as a school teacher.  Got burned out after a decade.</p><p>Went to work as a lab tech at the University physics dept,<br>just in time to be there for the transition of vax + dos running terminal programs to unix boxen.</p><p>Did that for 15 years.</p><p>Now I'm a tree farmer.</p><p>That doesn't make me a living yet, but this year we sold about<br>$20K worth of trees with operating expenses about half that.</p><p>In winter I do some web work and freelance photoshop.</p><p>My wife supports me -- she's a freelance editor.<br>The house is paid for.  The truck is paid for.  The car is<br>paid for next spring.  We have no debt on the tree farm. (One of the things we agreed to when I started it.)</p><p>We're not hurtin' but we aren't maxing out our RRSP's either. It will be a few years yet before we do the kitchen reno.  I'll probably do the bathroom reno after Christmas.  Did<br>the bedroom and converted a half bath to full bath last<br>year.</p><p>So:  My advice to you:</p><p>*  Figure out what your new income is going to be.<br>*  Set up an automatic withdrawal on your bank account<br>to transfer to savings enough money to make your present IT<br>salary the same as your projected salary.<br>*  Live on this for 6 months.  Meanwhile this builds up a<br>cushion account, which if you are like me is a huge stress reliever.</p><p>If you are going to need retraining for your new career:<br>Ask your boss if you can go part time.  If you are a 24/7<br>business they may be quite happy to allow this especially<br>if you are willing to take the crap shifts that most people<br>don't want.  They also may give you your walking papers the<br>same day, so don't do this until a month before your training<br>starts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm starting my third career.I started as a school teacher .
Got burned out after a decade.Went to work as a lab tech at the University physics dept,just in time to be there for the transition of vax + dos running terminal programs to unix boxen.Did that for 15 years.Now I 'm a tree farmer.That does n't make me a living yet , but this year we sold about $ 20K worth of trees with operating expenses about half that.In winter I do some web work and freelance photoshop.My wife supports me -- she 's a freelance editor.The house is paid for .
The truck is paid for .
The car ispaid for next spring .
We have no debt on the tree farm .
( One of the things we agreed to when I started it .
) We 're not hurtin ' but we are n't maxing out our RRSP 's either .
It will be a few years yet before we do the kitchen reno .
I 'll probably do the bathroom reno after Christmas .
Didthe bedroom and converted a half bath to full bath lastyear.So : My advice to you : * Figure out what your new income is going to be .
* Set up an automatic withdrawal on your bank accountto transfer to savings enough money to make your present ITsalary the same as your projected salary .
* Live on this for 6 months .
Meanwhile this builds up acushion account , which if you are like me is a huge stress reliever.If you are going to need retraining for your new career : Ask your boss if you can go part time .
If you are a 24/7business they may be quite happy to allow this especiallyif you are willing to take the crap shifts that most peopledo n't want .
They also may give you your walking papers thesame day , so do n't do this until a month before your trainingstarts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm starting my third career.I started as a school teacher.
Got burned out after a decade.Went to work as a lab tech at the University physics dept,just in time to be there for the transition of vax + dos running terminal programs to unix boxen.Did that for 15 years.Now I'm a tree farmer.That doesn't make me a living yet, but this year we sold about$20K worth of trees with operating expenses about half that.In winter I do some web work and freelance photoshop.My wife supports me -- she's a freelance editor.The house is paid for.
The truck is paid for.
The car ispaid for next spring.
We have no debt on the tree farm.
(One of the things we agreed to when I started it.
)We're not hurtin' but we aren't maxing out our RRSP's either.
It will be a few years yet before we do the kitchen reno.
I'll probably do the bathroom reno after Christmas.
Didthe bedroom and converted a half bath to full bath lastyear.So:  My advice to you:*  Figure out what your new income is going to be.
*  Set up an automatic withdrawal on your bank accountto transfer to savings enough money to make your present ITsalary the same as your projected salary.
*  Live on this for 6 months.
Meanwhile this builds up acushion account, which if you are like me is a huge stress reliever.If you are going to need retraining for your new career:Ask your boss if you can go part time.
If you are a 24/7business they may be quite happy to allow this especiallyif you are willing to take the crap shifts that most peopledon't want.
They also may give you your walking papers thesame day, so don't do this until a month before your trainingstarts.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893977</id>
	<title>Why not Farming itself?</title>
	<author>blue\_teeth</author>
	<datestamp>1256760960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know how competitive / tough<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/expensive is farming in the USA.  I've been planning for this i.e., the IT schit to hit the fan.  For me, farming means away from city.  Healthy &amp; no nonsense life.  Not much money tho.  People still eat right?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know how competitive / tough /expensive is farming in the USA .
I 've been planning for this i.e. , the IT schit to hit the fan .
For me , farming means away from city .
Healthy &amp; no nonsense life .
Not much money tho .
People still eat right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know how competitive / tough /expensive is farming in the USA.
I've been planning for this i.e., the IT schit to hit the fan.
For me, farming means away from city.
Healthy &amp; no nonsense life.
Not much money tho.
People still eat right?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894783</id>
	<title>Re:A Change is as Good as a Rest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256729520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How does one connect with this kind of job/lifestyle? I'd be interested and perhaps others would to...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How does one connect with this kind of job/lifestyle ?
I 'd be interested and perhaps others would to.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How does one connect with this kind of job/lifestyle?
I'd be interested and perhaps others would to...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895899</id>
	<title>more than you know</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256738940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your employer shows their appreciation for your service every pay day.  Get over it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your employer shows their appreciation for your service every pay day .
Get over it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your employer shows their appreciation for your service every pay day.
Get over it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896867</id>
	<title>Wait, what?</title>
	<author>GameboyRMH</author>
	<datestamp>1256743020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Plus after civilization collapses in the coming zombie apocalypse, I'll be able to barter my health care skills for survival, while programmers will be a useless load due to the lack of electricity.</p></div><p>You can't be serious. There will be electricity, whether from wind, solar, automotive power inverter, or hacked-together diesel generator, and with Microsoft out of business, Linux devs will be in high demand, plus online social networking will be much more popular since going outside will be inherently unsafe, not to mention how critical communications will be. So C and python devs, web devs, VoIP admins and network admins will be in high demand - bonus points if you can build wind turbines and UPSes from scrap. Health care on the other hand, will be less valuable. Once a zombie bites you, all you can do is put the person out of their misery, or maybe try a very quick field amputation of an affected limb. The only regular work you'll have will be friendly fire, on-the-job accidents, and maybe delivering babies. Of course work in both the IT and medical fields will be sparse until a base is established.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Plus after civilization collapses in the coming zombie apocalypse , I 'll be able to barter my health care skills for survival , while programmers will be a useless load due to the lack of electricity.You ca n't be serious .
There will be electricity , whether from wind , solar , automotive power inverter , or hacked-together diesel generator , and with Microsoft out of business , Linux devs will be in high demand , plus online social networking will be much more popular since going outside will be inherently unsafe , not to mention how critical communications will be .
So C and python devs , web devs , VoIP admins and network admins will be in high demand - bonus points if you can build wind turbines and UPSes from scrap .
Health care on the other hand , will be less valuable .
Once a zombie bites you , all you can do is put the person out of their misery , or maybe try a very quick field amputation of an affected limb .
The only regular work you 'll have will be friendly fire , on-the-job accidents , and maybe delivering babies .
Of course work in both the IT and medical fields will be sparse until a base is established .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Plus after civilization collapses in the coming zombie apocalypse, I'll be able to barter my health care skills for survival, while programmers will be a useless load due to the lack of electricity.You can't be serious.
There will be electricity, whether from wind, solar, automotive power inverter, or hacked-together diesel generator, and with Microsoft out of business, Linux devs will be in high demand, plus online social networking will be much more popular since going outside will be inherently unsafe, not to mention how critical communications will be.
So C and python devs, web devs, VoIP admins and network admins will be in high demand - bonus points if you can build wind turbines and UPSes from scrap.
Health care on the other hand, will be less valuable.
Once a zombie bites you, all you can do is put the person out of their misery, or maybe try a very quick field amputation of an affected limb.
The only regular work you'll have will be friendly fire, on-the-job accidents, and maybe delivering babies.
Of course work in both the IT and medical fields will be sparse until a base is established.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894481</id>
	<title>Leave of absence?</title>
	<author>sandysnowbeard</author>
	<datestamp>1256725500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm 25. After two years in the industry (and about four years of college), I became really disillusioned with computer science. I attempted to quit my job and go hike around Japan. Ultimately, my company gave me a quite generous leave of absence (which I'm still on). I'm still in Japan, now teaching at an elementary school. It's tiring work, but I feel loved and appreciated. My salary is roughly half of what it was before, but my rent has also been halved, I have no car or car insurance, etc., so I live well.

As the guy above spoke, you can probably arrange with your company to take a leave of absence. It takes courage, but you can leap blindly and still land on your feet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm 25 .
After two years in the industry ( and about four years of college ) , I became really disillusioned with computer science .
I attempted to quit my job and go hike around Japan .
Ultimately , my company gave me a quite generous leave of absence ( which I 'm still on ) .
I 'm still in Japan , now teaching at an elementary school .
It 's tiring work , but I feel loved and appreciated .
My salary is roughly half of what it was before , but my rent has also been halved , I have no car or car insurance , etc. , so I live well .
As the guy above spoke , you can probably arrange with your company to take a leave of absence .
It takes courage , but you can leap blindly and still land on your feet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm 25.
After two years in the industry (and about four years of college), I became really disillusioned with computer science.
I attempted to quit my job and go hike around Japan.
Ultimately, my company gave me a quite generous leave of absence (which I'm still on).
I'm still in Japan, now teaching at an elementary school.
It's tiring work, but I feel loved and appreciated.
My salary is roughly half of what it was before, but my rent has also been halved, I have no car or car insurance, etc., so I live well.
As the guy above spoke, you can probably arrange with your company to take a leave of absence.
It takes courage, but you can leap blindly and still land on your feet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894081</id>
	<title>Lose the boss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256762580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think there are a lot of things being mixed up here. My job in IT sucked. So I left and am now a freelancer doing web related stuff, and working as a teacher, also on IT related subjects. My point: it's having a boss that sucks, not the actual IT. When I come in from the outside and I'm being paid big bucks for it, I get respect that I wouldn't if I were a wage slave. The reason they treat salespeople better is that they know how to market themselves, whereas there is this persistent image of IT people as Rainman types who you can kick around. Unions would help, but just leaving works too. In France we call this "voting with your feet".</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think there are a lot of things being mixed up here .
My job in IT sucked .
So I left and am now a freelancer doing web related stuff , and working as a teacher , also on IT related subjects .
My point : it 's having a boss that sucks , not the actual IT .
When I come in from the outside and I 'm being paid big bucks for it , I get respect that I would n't if I were a wage slave .
The reason they treat salespeople better is that they know how to market themselves , whereas there is this persistent image of IT people as Rainman types who you can kick around .
Unions would help , but just leaving works too .
In France we call this " voting with your feet " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think there are a lot of things being mixed up here.
My job in IT sucked.
So I left and am now a freelancer doing web related stuff, and working as a teacher, also on IT related subjects.
My point: it's having a boss that sucks, not the actual IT.
When I come in from the outside and I'm being paid big bucks for it, I get respect that I wouldn't if I were a wage slave.
The reason they treat salespeople better is that they know how to market themselves, whereas there is this persistent image of IT people as Rainman types who you can kick around.
Unions would help, but just leaving works too.
In France we call this "voting with your feet".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895723</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256737920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>As someone who has worked public sector, was a union member, and even striked with the union I can say that this is not entirely the case, unions are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.</p></div></blockquote><p>You're twenty years too late, Thatcher already destroyed the unions. This is why we have the longest working hours and most inequality in Europe. Maybe if we'd kept the unions around we wouldn't be scrapping for minimum wage agency work whilst the bankers and executives walk off with all the cash.</p><blockquote><div><p>Unison is still pushing for pay rises, even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid &pound;29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around &pound;16k to &pound;18k.</p></div></blockquote><p>So workers who would otherwise make fuck-all, now get an income which may well help them pay a mortgage and raise a family. No doubt if these same workers were making &pound;16k, you'd be whining about having to pay taxes for the services which they can no longer afford themselves.</p><blockquote><div><p>We also have them acting as a strongly political tool, they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for, in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a union, particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views.</p></div></blockquote><p>On the other hand, we have newspapers regularly telling millions of people who to vote for. Considering your anti-union views, I'd imagine the Times is the paper which tells you how to think.</p><p>Britain has the weakest and smallest unions in Europe, according to right-wing dogma this should make us extremely prosperous. Instead, we're actually worse off, still in recession when everyone else is recovering.</p><p>The Royal Mail staff might not be on strike if the management hadn't reneged on the deal. But as your only information on the strike comes from right-wing sources, it's no wonder you're so ill-informed. They can't be struggling that much for cash if they can afford to pay Crozier several million a year.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who has worked public sector , was a union member , and even striked with the union I can say that this is not entirely the case , unions are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.You 're twenty years too late , Thatcher already destroyed the unions .
This is why we have the longest working hours and most inequality in Europe .
Maybe if we 'd kept the unions around we would n't be scrapping for minimum wage agency work whilst the bankers and executives walk off with all the cash.Unison is still pushing for pay rises , even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid   29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around   16k to   18k.So workers who would otherwise make fuck-all , now get an income which may well help them pay a mortgage and raise a family .
No doubt if these same workers were making   16k , you 'd be whining about having to pay taxes for the services which they can no longer afford themselves.We also have them acting as a strongly political tool , they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for , in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a union , particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views.On the other hand , we have newspapers regularly telling millions of people who to vote for .
Considering your anti-union views , I 'd imagine the Times is the paper which tells you how to think.Britain has the weakest and smallest unions in Europe , according to right-wing dogma this should make us extremely prosperous .
Instead , we 're actually worse off , still in recession when everyone else is recovering.The Royal Mail staff might not be on strike if the management had n't reneged on the deal .
But as your only information on the strike comes from right-wing sources , it 's no wonder you 're so ill-informed .
They ca n't be struggling that much for cash if they can afford to pay Crozier several million a year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who has worked public sector, was a union member, and even striked with the union I can say that this is not entirely the case, unions are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.You're twenty years too late, Thatcher already destroyed the unions.
This is why we have the longest working hours and most inequality in Europe.
Maybe if we'd kept the unions around we wouldn't be scrapping for minimum wage agency work whilst the bankers and executives walk off with all the cash.Unison is still pushing for pay rises, even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid £29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around £16k to £18k.So workers who would otherwise make fuck-all, now get an income which may well help them pay a mortgage and raise a family.
No doubt if these same workers were making £16k, you'd be whining about having to pay taxes for the services which they can no longer afford themselves.We also have them acting as a strongly political tool, they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for, in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a union, particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views.On the other hand, we have newspapers regularly telling millions of people who to vote for.
Considering your anti-union views, I'd imagine the Times is the paper which tells you how to think.Britain has the weakest and smallest unions in Europe, according to right-wing dogma this should make us extremely prosperous.
Instead, we're actually worse off, still in recession when everyone else is recovering.The Royal Mail staff might not be on strike if the management hadn't reneged on the deal.
But as your only information on the strike comes from right-wing sources, it's no wonder you're so ill-informed.
They can't be struggling that much for cash if they can afford to pay Crozier several million a year.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898715</id>
	<title>Office Space</title>
	<author>jduhls</author>
	<datestamp>1256750640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I did the cliche "IT to Construction Worker" maneuver and it was the smartest thing I've ever done.  I spent about 4 years remodeling homes (I did the company's website, too).  I learned everthing I needed to know about residential construction and quite a bit about fine wood working, too.  I lived poor, drank cheap beer, and bitched with the best of them.  Made really good friends and met some real characters (some I don't care to ever know again, too).  Needless to say, I quit construction and went back into IT so I could afford to buy and remodel my own house.  There's nothing more rewarding than building your own awesome fort!  No regrets, here.  I felt like the construction job was like a college degree in something that was a) worthwhile and b) something I really enjoyed doing.

Good luck.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did the cliche " IT to Construction Worker " maneuver and it was the smartest thing I 've ever done .
I spent about 4 years remodeling homes ( I did the company 's website , too ) .
I learned everthing I needed to know about residential construction and quite a bit about fine wood working , too .
I lived poor , drank cheap beer , and bitched with the best of them .
Made really good friends and met some real characters ( some I do n't care to ever know again , too ) .
Needless to say , I quit construction and went back into IT so I could afford to buy and remodel my own house .
There 's nothing more rewarding than building your own awesome fort !
No regrets , here .
I felt like the construction job was like a college degree in something that was a ) worthwhile and b ) something I really enjoyed doing .
Good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did the cliche "IT to Construction Worker" maneuver and it was the smartest thing I've ever done.
I spent about 4 years remodeling homes (I did the company's website, too).
I learned everthing I needed to know about residential construction and quite a bit about fine wood working, too.
I lived poor, drank cheap beer, and bitched with the best of them.
Made really good friends and met some real characters (some I don't care to ever know again, too).
Needless to say, I quit construction and went back into IT so I could afford to buy and remodel my own house.
There's nothing more rewarding than building your own awesome fort!
No regrets, here.
I felt like the construction job was like a college degree in something that was a) worthwhile and b) something I really enjoyed doing.
Good luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898443</id>
	<title>Re:Out of the frying pan, and into the fire</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256749320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Brilliant! That's my secret plan as well (but probably just coffee). It was good to read your comment because I can imagine the long hours and hard work but I had no idea of the potential profit of a store.</p><p>Any other gems of advice you'd like to share?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Brilliant !
That 's my secret plan as well ( but probably just coffee ) .
It was good to read your comment because I can imagine the long hours and hard work but I had no idea of the potential profit of a store.Any other gems of advice you 'd like to share ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Brilliant!
That's my secret plan as well (but probably just coffee).
It was good to read your comment because I can imagine the long hours and hard work but I had no idea of the potential profit of a store.Any other gems of advice you'd like to share?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893591</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893951</id>
	<title>Become a barber</title>
	<author>tomstorey</author>
	<datestamp>1256760660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I went for a haircut yesterday, this particular barber charges $25/cut. While I was waiting 3 people had their hair cut (thats including of the person already in the chair when I walked in), and another 2 people came in to be served after me.

Thats $150 for maybe 1.5 hours work?

Moral: become a barber. Seems to be pretty good money, and despite this "financial downturn" etc peoples hair still grows and needs to be cut...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I went for a haircut yesterday , this particular barber charges $ 25/cut .
While I was waiting 3 people had their hair cut ( thats including of the person already in the chair when I walked in ) , and another 2 people came in to be served after me .
Thats $ 150 for maybe 1.5 hours work ?
Moral : become a barber .
Seems to be pretty good money , and despite this " financial downturn " etc peoples hair still grows and needs to be cut.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went for a haircut yesterday, this particular barber charges $25/cut.
While I was waiting 3 people had their hair cut (thats including of the person already in the chair when I walked in), and another 2 people came in to be served after me.
Thats $150 for maybe 1.5 hours work?
Moral: become a barber.
Seems to be pretty good money, and despite this "financial downturn" etc peoples hair still grows and needs to be cut...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898541</id>
	<title>Audio Engineering</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256749740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been moving slowly over the past 10yrs from IT Engineering to Audio Engineering.<br>Very similar in their technical joys, esp now that all audio work is 99\% based on software/computers.</p><p>also, look into film/animation/video games.</p><p>working in the arts gives me much more joy then working on keeping someones email up for their snuggy website</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been moving slowly over the past 10yrs from IT Engineering to Audio Engineering.Very similar in their technical joys , esp now that all audio work is 99 \ % based on software/computers.also , look into film/animation/video games.working in the arts gives me much more joy then working on keeping someones email up for their snuggy website</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been moving slowly over the past 10yrs from IT Engineering to Audio Engineering.Very similar in their technical joys, esp now that all audio work is 99\% based on software/computers.also, look into film/animation/video games.working in the arts gives me much more joy then working on keeping someones email up for their snuggy website</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29903015</id>
	<title>Moving away from the IT field.</title>
	<author>soundsketcher</author>
	<datestamp>1256726520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I also felt the same need to leave an IT career which was somewhat unfulfilling and unrewarding. Unappreciative customers were the least of my worries; however your mention of them gives them a place in the top 10 reasons. ITIL driven businesses were one of my biggest reasons to get sick of a career in system administration. Businesses use the ITIL framework in ways which are not justified, and apply certain theories blindly without first considering how to implement them in a low-impact manner. Yes, I'm being very generic here, but only for the sake of holding myself back from an endless rant.

Anyways... To answer your question, my method of leaving the hands-on IT world while still remaining of technical value to my employer was to move into Technical Writing. As a profession, I read it was voted in the top 10 least stressful jobs in the United States, and I can confirm that here in Australia the stress levels associated with Tech Writing are relatively low. I find it also satisfies the creative needs of a geek while still paying the bills and leaving enough income for geekdom.

Technical Writing is definitely worth a consideration if you have good linguistic skills, and if you enjoy interacting with different teams to harvest and transform data into universal information.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I also felt the same need to leave an IT career which was somewhat unfulfilling and unrewarding .
Unappreciative customers were the least of my worries ; however your mention of them gives them a place in the top 10 reasons .
ITIL driven businesses were one of my biggest reasons to get sick of a career in system administration .
Businesses use the ITIL framework in ways which are not justified , and apply certain theories blindly without first considering how to implement them in a low-impact manner .
Yes , I 'm being very generic here , but only for the sake of holding myself back from an endless rant .
Anyways... To answer your question , my method of leaving the hands-on IT world while still remaining of technical value to my employer was to move into Technical Writing .
As a profession , I read it was voted in the top 10 least stressful jobs in the United States , and I can confirm that here in Australia the stress levels associated with Tech Writing are relatively low .
I find it also satisfies the creative needs of a geek while still paying the bills and leaving enough income for geekdom .
Technical Writing is definitely worth a consideration if you have good linguistic skills , and if you enjoy interacting with different teams to harvest and transform data into universal information .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I also felt the same need to leave an IT career which was somewhat unfulfilling and unrewarding.
Unappreciative customers were the least of my worries; however your mention of them gives them a place in the top 10 reasons.
ITIL driven businesses were one of my biggest reasons to get sick of a career in system administration.
Businesses use the ITIL framework in ways which are not justified, and apply certain theories blindly without first considering how to implement them in a low-impact manner.
Yes, I'm being very generic here, but only for the sake of holding myself back from an endless rant.
Anyways... To answer your question, my method of leaving the hands-on IT world while still remaining of technical value to my employer was to move into Technical Writing.
As a profession, I read it was voted in the top 10 least stressful jobs in the United States, and I can confirm that here in Australia the stress levels associated with Tech Writing are relatively low.
I find it also satisfies the creative needs of a geek while still paying the bills and leaving enough income for geekdom.
Technical Writing is definitely worth a consideration if you have good linguistic skills, and if you enjoy interacting with different teams to harvest and transform data into universal information.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29907685</id>
	<title>Now I sell Shaved Ice..</title>
	<author>TombGuard</author>
	<datestamp>1256808120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I used to be in IT field.. most of my job dealt with problems. So I quit and opened a Shaved Ice stand 6 years ago.. best move ever. First few years were tough as I worked every day. Now I'm off on weekends and half day Fridays! People are always happy to see me and the hours are set. (IT field can have you working at night and weekends)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to be in IT field.. most of my job dealt with problems .
So I quit and opened a Shaved Ice stand 6 years ago.. best move ever .
First few years were tough as I worked every day .
Now I 'm off on weekends and half day Fridays !
People are always happy to see me and the hours are set .
( IT field can have you working at night and weekends )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to be in IT field.. most of my job dealt with problems.
So I quit and opened a Shaved Ice stand 6 years ago.. best move ever.
First few years were tough as I worked every day.
Now I'm off on weekends and half day Fridays!
People are always happy to see me and the hours are set.
(IT field can have you working at night and weekends)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893483</id>
	<title>Look before you leap</title>
	<author>FPhlyer</author>
	<datestamp>1256668260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm an ex-Navy guy. My military career field was journalism and public affairs. When I got out of the service I went directly into IT.<br>The same factors that governed my career change would likely work in this, and any other similar situation:<br>1. Identify things that you LIKE to do.<br>2. Of the things that you LIKE to do, do you also possess marketable skills doing them?<br>3. Can you put those skills on a resume?<br>4. What can you do NOW to add credibility to your new career?</p><p>Work those things out and making the leap should be fine. Beware, leaving IT can often mean leaving a good paycheck. You'll want to get your finances and lifestyle in check before making the jump.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm an ex-Navy guy .
My military career field was journalism and public affairs .
When I got out of the service I went directly into IT.The same factors that governed my career change would likely work in this , and any other similar situation : 1 .
Identify things that you LIKE to do.2 .
Of the things that you LIKE to do , do you also possess marketable skills doing them ? 3 .
Can you put those skills on a resume ? 4 .
What can you do NOW to add credibility to your new career ? Work those things out and making the leap should be fine .
Beware , leaving IT can often mean leaving a good paycheck .
You 'll want to get your finances and lifestyle in check before making the jump .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm an ex-Navy guy.
My military career field was journalism and public affairs.
When I got out of the service I went directly into IT.The same factors that governed my career change would likely work in this, and any other similar situation:1.
Identify things that you LIKE to do.2.
Of the things that you LIKE to do, do you also possess marketable skills doing them?3.
Can you put those skills on a resume?4.
What can you do NOW to add credibility to your new career?Work those things out and making the leap should be fine.
Beware, leaving IT can often mean leaving a good paycheck.
You'll want to get your finances and lifestyle in check before making the jump.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894201</id>
	<title>error</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256721120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>[...] companies and customers that are financially [...] unappreciative. [...] and the money is adequate [...]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>[ ... ] companies and customers that are financially [ ... ] unappreciative .
[ ... ] and the money is adequate [ ... ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[...] companies and customers that are financially [...] unappreciative.
[...] and the money is adequate [...]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897355</id>
	<title>Commercial Property or Community Management?</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1256744940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>My suggestion? Find an industry which is old (and thus has well established work principles), deeply unsexy, and (if you can) look for jobs on the income side of the ledger.</p></div><p>I know a woman, in Denver, who works as property manager for an office building. Basically the job is hiring contractors, collecting rent, paying the bills. The job pays $90K a year, with perks up the wahzoo. She does not know anything about plumbing, electronics, hvac, or anything like that.</p><p>If you own the business, community (HOA) management, can be even more lucrative. Seems like it would hard to get started, but if you could get started, you have a very stable income.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My suggestion ?
Find an industry which is old ( and thus has well established work principles ) , deeply unsexy , and ( if you can ) look for jobs on the income side of the ledger.I know a woman , in Denver , who works as property manager for an office building .
Basically the job is hiring contractors , collecting rent , paying the bills .
The job pays $ 90K a year , with perks up the wahzoo .
She does not know anything about plumbing , electronics , hvac , or anything like that.If you own the business , community ( HOA ) management , can be even more lucrative .
Seems like it would hard to get started , but if you could get started , you have a very stable income .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My suggestion?
Find an industry which is old (and thus has well established work principles), deeply unsexy, and (if you can) look for jobs on the income side of the ledger.I know a woman, in Denver, who works as property manager for an office building.
Basically the job is hiring contractors, collecting rent, paying the bills.
The job pays $90K a year, with perks up the wahzoo.
She does not know anything about plumbing, electronics, hvac, or anything like that.If you own the business, community (HOA) management, can be even more lucrative.
Seems like it would hard to get started, but if you could get started, you have a very stable income.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893939</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893937</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256760480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This all has to do with supply and demand economics and not importance. Would would happen if all the computers went down at any modern company? You would not stay in business for long. Also business processes engineering is big now and I.T. is part of the solution and not a cost center.</p><p>If someone in India can do your job for $11/hr then why should you earn respect? Managers and accountants are going to be axed next as they are seen as deadweight when someone from a 3rd world country can do it for alot cheaper. Why not move the whole company to China?</p><p>If free trade did not exist you would see programmers still making 70k a year and being treated better.</p><p>In 10 years from now the people who are out partying and leaving work early will be working for half price until 7 or 8 at night as well as competition increases. Sales is the only job left here but no one will be buying things as our economy deflates.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This all has to do with supply and demand economics and not importance .
Would would happen if all the computers went down at any modern company ?
You would not stay in business for long .
Also business processes engineering is big now and I.T .
is part of the solution and not a cost center.If someone in India can do your job for $ 11/hr then why should you earn respect ?
Managers and accountants are going to be axed next as they are seen as deadweight when someone from a 3rd world country can do it for alot cheaper .
Why not move the whole company to China ? If free trade did not exist you would see programmers still making 70k a year and being treated better.In 10 years from now the people who are out partying and leaving work early will be working for half price until 7 or 8 at night as well as competition increases .
Sales is the only job left here but no one will be buying things as our economy deflates .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This all has to do with supply and demand economics and not importance.
Would would happen if all the computers went down at any modern company?
You would not stay in business for long.
Also business processes engineering is big now and I.T.
is part of the solution and not a cost center.If someone in India can do your job for $11/hr then why should you earn respect?
Managers and accountants are going to be axed next as they are seen as deadweight when someone from a 3rd world country can do it for alot cheaper.
Why not move the whole company to China?If free trade did not exist you would see programmers still making 70k a year and being treated better.In 10 years from now the people who are out partying and leaving work early will be working for half price until 7 or 8 at night as well as competition increases.
Sales is the only job left here but no one will be buying things as our economy deflates.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893631</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893599</id>
	<title>Oi</title>
	<author>Turbo\_Button</author>
	<datestamp>1256669760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll take your job!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll take your job !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll take your job!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29904225</id>
	<title>If you're passionate you'll get out of IT</title>
	<author>phocutus</author>
	<datestamp>1256733480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've been working on UNIX/SysAdmin/InfoSec/development/DBA since I was 15 back in 95. Dealing with various politics, Good O' Boys club, racism, sexism, budget issues, morons in management, unrealistic deadlines, and pager calls, merges, buy-outs, hacks, and illegal operations of company polices (of some major corporations). I realized I was anti-social, hated what I did, the tech controlled my life, and I felt I lost myself into the world of consumer America. I thus, now treat it as a job and nothing else, I since feel liberated and am expanding my mind.

How to adjust with a pay cut? Simple, don't be a techy nerd and flaunt your American cash everywhere. I've embraced being a minimalist. I have one laptop, I reduced my living expenses as minimalistic as possible (I read books &amp; music than pay for T.V.) walk and take public transit. This has made me interact with people more. I realized working 8hrs a day and coming home I didn't need to pay $60 for a constant connection. I thus, use my phone's connection if I needed the net at home (iphone tethering rocks). I have budgeted my money to live close to bare bones with a percentage for going out and having a few luxuries (dinner out, movie rental, etc. money for occasions NOT materialistic items).

The remainder? It goes into a 5yr plan that in five years I have enough saved where I can pay myself to go to college full-time to change careers and be introduced into a new circle of people of what I'm interested in. On the other hand, if I wanted to change into another career that saved money would help as a 'buffer'.

It just takes dedication and a plan and sticking to both. If you're serious you'll make it happen. As for myself I hope for when I'm 35, I have a new fun filled adventure<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) Hopefully one I'm not burnt out on.

As another posted pointed out:

"You can be good at something, but you may not necessarily like it or be passionate about it anymore"</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been working on UNIX/SysAdmin/InfoSec/development/DBA since I was 15 back in 95 .
Dealing with various politics , Good O ' Boys club , racism , sexism , budget issues , morons in management , unrealistic deadlines , and pager calls , merges , buy-outs , hacks , and illegal operations of company polices ( of some major corporations ) .
I realized I was anti-social , hated what I did , the tech controlled my life , and I felt I lost myself into the world of consumer America .
I thus , now treat it as a job and nothing else , I since feel liberated and am expanding my mind .
How to adjust with a pay cut ?
Simple , do n't be a techy nerd and flaunt your American cash everywhere .
I 've embraced being a minimalist .
I have one laptop , I reduced my living expenses as minimalistic as possible ( I read books &amp; music than pay for T.V .
) walk and take public transit .
This has made me interact with people more .
I realized working 8hrs a day and coming home I did n't need to pay $ 60 for a constant connection .
I thus , use my phone 's connection if I needed the net at home ( iphone tethering rocks ) .
I have budgeted my money to live close to bare bones with a percentage for going out and having a few luxuries ( dinner out , movie rental , etc .
money for occasions NOT materialistic items ) .
The remainder ?
It goes into a 5yr plan that in five years I have enough saved where I can pay myself to go to college full-time to change careers and be introduced into a new circle of people of what I 'm interested in .
On the other hand , if I wanted to change into another career that saved money would help as a 'buffer' .
It just takes dedication and a plan and sticking to both .
If you 're serious you 'll make it happen .
As for myself I hope for when I 'm 35 , I have a new fun filled adventure : ) Hopefully one I 'm not burnt out on .
As another posted pointed out : " You can be good at something , but you may not necessarily like it or be passionate about it anymore "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been working on UNIX/SysAdmin/InfoSec/development/DBA since I was 15 back in 95.
Dealing with various politics, Good O' Boys club, racism, sexism, budget issues, morons in management, unrealistic deadlines, and pager calls, merges, buy-outs, hacks, and illegal operations of company polices (of some major corporations).
I realized I was anti-social, hated what I did, the tech controlled my life, and I felt I lost myself into the world of consumer America.
I thus, now treat it as a job and nothing else, I since feel liberated and am expanding my mind.
How to adjust with a pay cut?
Simple, don't be a techy nerd and flaunt your American cash everywhere.
I've embraced being a minimalist.
I have one laptop, I reduced my living expenses as minimalistic as possible (I read books &amp; music than pay for T.V.
) walk and take public transit.
This has made me interact with people more.
I realized working 8hrs a day and coming home I didn't need to pay $60 for a constant connection.
I thus, use my phone's connection if I needed the net at home (iphone tethering rocks).
I have budgeted my money to live close to bare bones with a percentage for going out and having a few luxuries (dinner out, movie rental, etc.
money for occasions NOT materialistic items).
The remainder?
It goes into a 5yr plan that in five years I have enough saved where I can pay myself to go to college full-time to change careers and be introduced into a new circle of people of what I'm interested in.
On the other hand, if I wanted to change into another career that saved money would help as a 'buffer'.
It just takes dedication and a plan and sticking to both.
If you're serious you'll make it happen.
As for myself I hope for when I'm 35, I have a new fun filled adventure :) Hopefully one I'm not burnt out on.
As another posted pointed out:

"You can be good at something, but you may not necessarily like it or be passionate about it anymore"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897149</id>
	<title>Am I the only one with a good job?</title>
	<author>Fished</author>
	<datestamp>1256744040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've got a great job, working for a Solaris admin group at a Fortune 100 company as a systems architect.  Right now, I'm working on building and maintaining the customized Solaris image that the company installs, but in the past I've done everything from troubleshooting to programming to web design to straight sysadmin work.  It's interesting work, and a new challenge every day. I'm a single father, but my management has been very understanding of my needs in that department, I get decent pay and very good benefits.  Yes, the corporate mergers, takeovers, outsourcing, insourcing, reorganizations, etc. suck, but then again I've had a stable job since 1999 and so far there's no writing on the wall.  Prior to 1999, I had no trouble finding jobs from 1993 on.  Once, in 2007, I found a very good job after looking for a whole two weeks, then decided to stay with my current employer when they counter-offered.</p><p>I hate to sound harsh, but I wonder whether those who complain about IT aren't really suffering from a skills gap.  It seems to me that IT's a great place to work for those who are really good at it, and that (as is the case in most fields) the best don't have trouble finding work.  If you're having trouble finding work, always getting laid off, etc., maybe that's a sign that IT isn't really where you belong?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've got a great job , working for a Solaris admin group at a Fortune 100 company as a systems architect .
Right now , I 'm working on building and maintaining the customized Solaris image that the company installs , but in the past I 've done everything from troubleshooting to programming to web design to straight sysadmin work .
It 's interesting work , and a new challenge every day .
I 'm a single father , but my management has been very understanding of my needs in that department , I get decent pay and very good benefits .
Yes , the corporate mergers , takeovers , outsourcing , insourcing , reorganizations , etc .
suck , but then again I 've had a stable job since 1999 and so far there 's no writing on the wall .
Prior to 1999 , I had no trouble finding jobs from 1993 on .
Once , in 2007 , I found a very good job after looking for a whole two weeks , then decided to stay with my current employer when they counter-offered.I hate to sound harsh , but I wonder whether those who complain about IT are n't really suffering from a skills gap .
It seems to me that IT 's a great place to work for those who are really good at it , and that ( as is the case in most fields ) the best do n't have trouble finding work .
If you 're having trouble finding work , always getting laid off , etc. , maybe that 's a sign that IT is n't really where you belong ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've got a great job, working for a Solaris admin group at a Fortune 100 company as a systems architect.
Right now, I'm working on building and maintaining the customized Solaris image that the company installs, but in the past I've done everything from troubleshooting to programming to web design to straight sysadmin work.
It's interesting work, and a new challenge every day.
I'm a single father, but my management has been very understanding of my needs in that department, I get decent pay and very good benefits.
Yes, the corporate mergers, takeovers, outsourcing, insourcing, reorganizations, etc.
suck, but then again I've had a stable job since 1999 and so far there's no writing on the wall.
Prior to 1999, I had no trouble finding jobs from 1993 on.
Once, in 2007, I found a very good job after looking for a whole two weeks, then decided to stay with my current employer when they counter-offered.I hate to sound harsh, but I wonder whether those who complain about IT aren't really suffering from a skills gap.
It seems to me that IT's a great place to work for those who are really good at it, and that (as is the case in most fields) the best don't have trouble finding work.
If you're having trouble finding work, always getting laid off, etc., maybe that's a sign that IT isn't really where you belong?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29907045</id>
	<title>IT support is IT prostitution</title>
	<author>grantph</author>
	<datestamp>1256756160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I noticed that the general tone of this thread is around IT support (networking, sysadmin, pc support, etc.)</p><p>I've always been good at all of these things and made the mistake of taking on a few IT support clients to supplement my custom development business thinking "this is easy".  What a MISTAKE that was!  The pay was okay but the money wasn't worth it for the unnecessary stress.  IT support is such a mundane and thankless field.  It's the same crap day in, day out.  Printers don't work, network drives are down, Updates didn't install properly, some moron can't change the toner on a printer, blah blah blah.   It's completely reactive and quickly ruined my motivation.  Anyhow, it essentially ruined the rest of my IT business for a period.</p><p>Thankfully I extracted myself from IT support (hitting a few angry clients along the way) and I can honestly say IT support is simply not worth the money.  I've even gone to the point of avoiding friends and family that want any kind of support.  Now I act completely oblivious when someone bitches about their IT problem.  If you can't fix it yourself, don't look at me!  I now liken IT support to prostitution.  You're selling your brain at a high price for very little in return (just the cash) and a lot of stress.  In fact, you'd probably be better off selling your body because at least most clients would be satisfied!</p><p>BUT don't confuse "IT Support" with IT in general.  IT is just a tool.  There are plenty of other aspects to IT other than support that can be rewarding. The trick is to find new and exciting industries and apply that IT tool in creative ways.  Personally, I'm currently applying that tool to child care and having a hell of a lot of fun doing it.</p><p><a href="http://www.criticalyears.com/" title="criticalyears.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.criticalyears.com/</a> [criticalyears.com]</p><p>Just avoid the support side of IT at all costs!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I noticed that the general tone of this thread is around IT support ( networking , sysadmin , pc support , etc .
) I 've always been good at all of these things and made the mistake of taking on a few IT support clients to supplement my custom development business thinking " this is easy " .
What a MISTAKE that was !
The pay was okay but the money was n't worth it for the unnecessary stress .
IT support is such a mundane and thankless field .
It 's the same crap day in , day out .
Printers do n't work , network drives are down , Updates did n't install properly , some moron ca n't change the toner on a printer , blah blah blah .
It 's completely reactive and quickly ruined my motivation .
Anyhow , it essentially ruined the rest of my IT business for a period.Thankfully I extracted myself from IT support ( hitting a few angry clients along the way ) and I can honestly say IT support is simply not worth the money .
I 've even gone to the point of avoiding friends and family that want any kind of support .
Now I act completely oblivious when someone bitches about their IT problem .
If you ca n't fix it yourself , do n't look at me !
I now liken IT support to prostitution .
You 're selling your brain at a high price for very little in return ( just the cash ) and a lot of stress .
In fact , you 'd probably be better off selling your body because at least most clients would be satisfied ! BUT do n't confuse " IT Support " with IT in general .
IT is just a tool .
There are plenty of other aspects to IT other than support that can be rewarding .
The trick is to find new and exciting industries and apply that IT tool in creative ways .
Personally , I 'm currently applying that tool to child care and having a hell of a lot of fun doing it.http : //www.criticalyears.com/ [ criticalyears.com ] Just avoid the support side of IT at all costs !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I noticed that the general tone of this thread is around IT support (networking, sysadmin, pc support, etc.
)I've always been good at all of these things and made the mistake of taking on a few IT support clients to supplement my custom development business thinking "this is easy".
What a MISTAKE that was!
The pay was okay but the money wasn't worth it for the unnecessary stress.
IT support is such a mundane and thankless field.
It's the same crap day in, day out.
Printers don't work, network drives are down, Updates didn't install properly, some moron can't change the toner on a printer, blah blah blah.
It's completely reactive and quickly ruined my motivation.
Anyhow, it essentially ruined the rest of my IT business for a period.Thankfully I extracted myself from IT support (hitting a few angry clients along the way) and I can honestly say IT support is simply not worth the money.
I've even gone to the point of avoiding friends and family that want any kind of support.
Now I act completely oblivious when someone bitches about their IT problem.
If you can't fix it yourself, don't look at me!
I now liken IT support to prostitution.
You're selling your brain at a high price for very little in return (just the cash) and a lot of stress.
In fact, you'd probably be better off selling your body because at least most clients would be satisfied!BUT don't confuse "IT Support" with IT in general.
IT is just a tool.
There are plenty of other aspects to IT other than support that can be rewarding.
The trick is to find new and exciting industries and apply that IT tool in creative ways.
Personally, I'm currently applying that tool to child care and having a hell of a lot of fun doing it.http://www.criticalyears.com/ [criticalyears.com]Just avoid the support side of IT at all costs!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902993</id>
	<title>Is the US so drastically different?</title>
	<author>jimicus</author>
	<datestamp>1256726340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm in the UK (my employer, until recently, had an office in the US) and there appears to be a <b>huge</b> cultural difference - our US office closed partly because we simply couldn't avoid hiring empire builders who wanted to spend all the company money hiring people and becoming middle managers of some sort rather than, I don't know, <b>actually producing and selling a product</b>.  This was immensely frustrating for anyone in the UK trying to work with them.</p><p>I think at the height we had 80 staff over there and 5 layers of management from top to bottom.  And then people wonder why the Indians and the Chinese are eating their breakfast.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in the UK ( my employer , until recently , had an office in the US ) and there appears to be a huge cultural difference - our US office closed partly because we simply could n't avoid hiring empire builders who wanted to spend all the company money hiring people and becoming middle managers of some sort rather than , I do n't know , actually producing and selling a product .
This was immensely frustrating for anyone in the UK trying to work with them.I think at the height we had 80 staff over there and 5 layers of management from top to bottom .
And then people wonder why the Indians and the Chinese are eating their breakfast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in the UK (my employer, until recently, had an office in the US) and there appears to be a huge cultural difference - our US office closed partly because we simply couldn't avoid hiring empire builders who wanted to spend all the company money hiring people and becoming middle managers of some sort rather than, I don't know, actually producing and selling a product.
This was immensely frustrating for anyone in the UK trying to work with them.I think at the height we had 80 staff over there and 5 layers of management from top to bottom.
And then people wonder why the Indians and the Chinese are eating their breakfast.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893667</id>
	<title>Re:Bean Sprout Farming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256670660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>s/Bean Sprout Farming/Weed/g</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>s/Bean Sprout Farming/Weed/g</tokentext>
<sentencetext>s/Bean Sprout Farming/Weed/g</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895325</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256734620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Ayn Rand and the army of philosophical libertarians in the U.S. whose intellect (required to understand the philosophy and economics behind it) naturally puts them in positions of influence and power via which these ideas are implemented (example: Alan Greenspan, a deep fan of Rand), along with the army of free-market economists who use their own work as faux-empirical justification for libertarian economic policies, NEVER talk about the humanitarian downsides of a hyper-competitive feedback loop/death-spiral... except to mock them in "Atlas Shrugged" (America's second most-influential book after the Bible, according to one survey conducted in the early 1990s).</p></div><p>If that's what you took away from Atlas Shrugged, then you should consider re-reading it.  AS was not about sacrificing one's personal well-being or working in poverty just to be working.  AS was about <b>not</b> working under untenable conditions.  That you'd be happier as a bean farmer for a fair wage than as a steel CEO with your margin squeezed to zero.  It's about people living up to their expectations, and the consequence of humanitarian efforts continually lowering those expectations.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ayn Rand and the army of philosophical libertarians in the U.S. whose intellect ( required to understand the philosophy and economics behind it ) naturally puts them in positions of influence and power via which these ideas are implemented ( example : Alan Greenspan , a deep fan of Rand ) , along with the army of free-market economists who use their own work as faux-empirical justification for libertarian economic policies , NEVER talk about the humanitarian downsides of a hyper-competitive feedback loop/death-spiral... except to mock them in " Atlas Shrugged " ( America 's second most-influential book after the Bible , according to one survey conducted in the early 1990s ) .If that 's what you took away from Atlas Shrugged , then you should consider re-reading it .
AS was not about sacrificing one 's personal well-being or working in poverty just to be working .
AS was about not working under untenable conditions .
That you 'd be happier as a bean farmer for a fair wage than as a steel CEO with your margin squeezed to zero .
It 's about people living up to their expectations , and the consequence of humanitarian efforts continually lowering those expectations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ayn Rand and the army of philosophical libertarians in the U.S. whose intellect (required to understand the philosophy and economics behind it) naturally puts them in positions of influence and power via which these ideas are implemented (example: Alan Greenspan, a deep fan of Rand), along with the army of free-market economists who use their own work as faux-empirical justification for libertarian economic policies, NEVER talk about the humanitarian downsides of a hyper-competitive feedback loop/death-spiral... except to mock them in "Atlas Shrugged" (America's second most-influential book after the Bible, according to one survey conducted in the early 1990s).If that's what you took away from Atlas Shrugged, then you should consider re-reading it.
AS was not about sacrificing one's personal well-being or working in poverty just to be working.
AS was about not working under untenable conditions.
That you'd be happier as a bean farmer for a fair wage than as a steel CEO with your margin squeezed to zero.
It's about people living up to their expectations, and the consequence of humanitarian efforts continually lowering those expectations.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895441</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256735760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have a problem with authority, Mr. Andersen. You believe you are special, that somehow the rules do not apply to you. Obviously, you are mistaken.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have a problem with authority , Mr. Andersen. You believe you are special , that somehow the rules do not apply to you .
Obviously , you are mistaken .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have a problem with authority, Mr. Andersen. You believe you are special, that somehow the rules do not apply to you.
Obviously, you are mistaken.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893755</id>
	<title>Family?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256671800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you have a family? If so, will you be able to continue to support them?</p><p>I am expecting my first child any time now (5 days over due date). I am currently self employed and make great money doing it. Especially this time of year, as opposed to the 8 week 'vacation' I have every summer because business dies and income dries right up. Although that is easily manageable with some basic savings and balancing of numbers.</p><p>I've been hmming and hauing the thought of finding something more stable and doesn't require me to be on my toes 24/7. There are some openings at [a very large local employer] that I've been considering applying to in the spring.</p><p>You always have to weigh the pro's and cons. For me I am actually quite torn but I suppose we'll see what happens when my child is born.</p><p>My Pros of current job:<br>- Flexible. I work when I want and don't when I don't want (it's great when the wife is in and out of false labor all week)<br>- Good money for the amount of work involved.</p><p>My Cons of current job:<br>- Can be long days if they work out that way.<br>- No stability in the long run<br>- Keeping my own accounting for taxes, etc. (trivial, really)</p><p>The new job would be a 30\% pay decrease, but would be stable all year 'round.<br>My days would most likely be shorter than what I am pushing myself to do right now.<br>I would have most benefits and coverage for dental, drugs, etc... which would be handy although i've been fine without it so far! (might change with the baby)</p><p>My biggest worry with jumping into a new job would be that I would probably have to ask the wife to go back to work. Which turns into paying for day care, etc. etc..... just a bunch of crap I'd rather not deal with.</p><p>So, to the point. If you have family and you are making ends meet no problem right now, stick to it.<br>If you don't have family and could take a potential pay cut, go for it. Your happiness is worth a lot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you have a family ?
If so , will you be able to continue to support them ? I am expecting my first child any time now ( 5 days over due date ) .
I am currently self employed and make great money doing it .
Especially this time of year , as opposed to the 8 week 'vacation ' I have every summer because business dies and income dries right up .
Although that is easily manageable with some basic savings and balancing of numbers.I 've been hmming and hauing the thought of finding something more stable and does n't require me to be on my toes 24/7 .
There are some openings at [ a very large local employer ] that I 've been considering applying to in the spring.You always have to weigh the pro 's and cons .
For me I am actually quite torn but I suppose we 'll see what happens when my child is born.My Pros of current job : - Flexible .
I work when I want and do n't when I do n't want ( it 's great when the wife is in and out of false labor all week ) - Good money for the amount of work involved.My Cons of current job : - Can be long days if they work out that way.- No stability in the long run- Keeping my own accounting for taxes , etc .
( trivial , really ) The new job would be a 30 \ % pay decrease , but would be stable all year 'round.My days would most likely be shorter than what I am pushing myself to do right now.I would have most benefits and coverage for dental , drugs , etc... which would be handy although i 've been fine without it so far !
( might change with the baby ) My biggest worry with jumping into a new job would be that I would probably have to ask the wife to go back to work .
Which turns into paying for day care , etc .
etc..... just a bunch of crap I 'd rather not deal with.So , to the point .
If you have family and you are making ends meet no problem right now , stick to it.If you do n't have family and could take a potential pay cut , go for it .
Your happiness is worth a lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you have a family?
If so, will you be able to continue to support them?I am expecting my first child any time now (5 days over due date).
I am currently self employed and make great money doing it.
Especially this time of year, as opposed to the 8 week 'vacation' I have every summer because business dies and income dries right up.
Although that is easily manageable with some basic savings and balancing of numbers.I've been hmming and hauing the thought of finding something more stable and doesn't require me to be on my toes 24/7.
There are some openings at [a very large local employer] that I've been considering applying to in the spring.You always have to weigh the pro's and cons.
For me I am actually quite torn but I suppose we'll see what happens when my child is born.My Pros of current job:- Flexible.
I work when I want and don't when I don't want (it's great when the wife is in and out of false labor all week)- Good money for the amount of work involved.My Cons of current job:- Can be long days if they work out that way.- No stability in the long run- Keeping my own accounting for taxes, etc.
(trivial, really)The new job would be a 30\% pay decrease, but would be stable all year 'round.My days would most likely be shorter than what I am pushing myself to do right now.I would have most benefits and coverage for dental, drugs, etc... which would be handy although i've been fine without it so far!
(might change with the baby)My biggest worry with jumping into a new job would be that I would probably have to ask the wife to go back to work.
Which turns into paying for day care, etc.
etc..... just a bunch of crap I'd rather not deal with.So, to the point.
If you have family and you are making ends meet no problem right now, stick to it.If you don't have family and could take a potential pay cut, go for it.
Your happiness is worth a lot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893625</id>
	<title>From what I've seen...</title>
	<author>benjamindees</author>
	<datestamp>1256670120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Teaching and working in industrial engineering are popular sideways career moves for IT people.  There is still a market in the US for large-scale industrial engineering (heavy machinery, chemical processing, construction).  It is typically a similar environment, lots of technical savvy required, not too much customer interaction, but with reasonable hours and less stress than the typical IT position.  Teaching is an obvious move, since it is government subsidized, benefits from the recession, has a history of rising prices, and there are still lots of people out there willing to go into debt for the opportunity to learn about the magic of computing.  Also, less stressful and typically lower paying than IT.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Teaching and working in industrial engineering are popular sideways career moves for IT people .
There is still a market in the US for large-scale industrial engineering ( heavy machinery , chemical processing , construction ) .
It is typically a similar environment , lots of technical savvy required , not too much customer interaction , but with reasonable hours and less stress than the typical IT position .
Teaching is an obvious move , since it is government subsidized , benefits from the recession , has a history of rising prices , and there are still lots of people out there willing to go into debt for the opportunity to learn about the magic of computing .
Also , less stressful and typically lower paying than IT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Teaching and working in industrial engineering are popular sideways career moves for IT people.
There is still a market in the US for large-scale industrial engineering (heavy machinery, chemical processing, construction).
It is typically a similar environment, lots of technical savvy required, not too much customer interaction, but with reasonable hours and less stress than the typical IT position.
Teaching is an obvious move, since it is government subsidized, benefits from the recession, has a history of rising prices, and there are still lots of people out there willing to go into debt for the opportunity to learn about the magic of computing.
Also, less stressful and typically lower paying than IT.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895009</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>hemorex</author>
	<datestamp>1256732160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Fight the system. Play World of Warcraft instead of working.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Fight the system .
Play World of Warcraft instead of working .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fight the system.
Play World of Warcraft instead of working.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896381</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>that IT girl</author>
	<datestamp>1256741100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can you share a little more about how you got to the point where you could "be a little bit of an idiot like the rest" and not go batshit insane from the "small talk about nothing"? I find myself in this situation at work too--and in general in fact, until I joined Mensa (finally, intellectually stimulating conversation!). But this would be a handy thing to be able to tolerate in the workplace.
<br> <br>
Also, I like the quote you ended with. Do you mind if I use that?</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can you share a little more about how you got to the point where you could " be a little bit of an idiot like the rest " and not go batshit insane from the " small talk about nothing " ?
I find myself in this situation at work too--and in general in fact , until I joined Mensa ( finally , intellectually stimulating conversation ! ) .
But this would be a handy thing to be able to tolerate in the workplace .
Also , I like the quote you ended with .
Do you mind if I use that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can you share a little more about how you got to the point where you could "be a little bit of an idiot like the rest" and not go batshit insane from the "small talk about nothing"?
I find myself in this situation at work too--and in general in fact, until I joined Mensa (finally, intellectually stimulating conversation!).
But this would be a handy thing to be able to tolerate in the workplace.
Also, I like the quote you ended with.
Do you mind if I use that?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29899977</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>drsmithy</author>
	<datestamp>1256755740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Having known 6, 7 and 8 figure salary folks I can assure you that you can't do their jobs.</i>
</p><p>Well, to be fair, neither can most of them...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having known 6 , 7 and 8 figure salary folks I can assure you that you ca n't do their jobs .
Well , to be fair , neither can most of them.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Having known 6, 7 and 8 figure salary folks I can assure you that you can't do their jobs.
Well, to be fair, neither can most of them...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893631</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</id>
	<title>Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256669340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IT jobs get absolutely no respect any more.<br>They get paid crap.<br>They have *ON CALL* work.<br>They have to read the minds of dolts who make more money (and work in a more sex balanced environment and who often get to go out drinking on the company dime).</p><p>I had to beg our manager to take the guys to lunch.  And he wouldn't spring 15 bucks for an appetizer.</p><p>Meanwhile the other side of the building is meeting for drinks at the bar at night dropping easily 10 to 20 bucks per person.</p><p>At my friend's company, the IT folks get up at 6am, get left at work while everyone goes out drinking for extended lunches (because they are "sales and executives")-- entire company is smaller than my last team.  Executives my ass.</p><p>Somehow, we let them do this to us.  When I was getting into the field, we were priest kings in air-conditioned rooms with complete power.  But with each passing year, we underbid each other and passed control over to people who worked us to death.</p><p>Leave the field.<br>If your in it, learn to fail gracefully.<br>Negotiate for more money and leave when they don't give it to you.  Leave them in a lurch.</p><p>This all sounds like a troll but it's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the "intelligent" folks are working as slaves.</p><p>How did it come to this?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IT jobs get absolutely no respect any more.They get paid crap.They have * ON CALL * work.They have to read the minds of dolts who make more money ( and work in a more sex balanced environment and who often get to go out drinking on the company dime ) .I had to beg our manager to take the guys to lunch .
And he would n't spring 15 bucks for an appetizer.Meanwhile the other side of the building is meeting for drinks at the bar at night dropping easily 10 to 20 bucks per person.At my friend 's company , the IT folks get up at 6am , get left at work while everyone goes out drinking for extended lunches ( because they are " sales and executives " ) -- entire company is smaller than my last team .
Executives my ass.Somehow , we let them do this to us .
When I was getting into the field , we were priest kings in air-conditioned rooms with complete power .
But with each passing year , we underbid each other and passed control over to people who worked us to death.Leave the field.If your in it , learn to fail gracefully.Negotiate for more money and leave when they do n't give it to you .
Leave them in a lurch.This all sounds like a troll but it 's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the " intelligent " folks are working as slaves.How did it come to this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT jobs get absolutely no respect any more.They get paid crap.They have *ON CALL* work.They have to read the minds of dolts who make more money (and work in a more sex balanced environment and who often get to go out drinking on the company dime).I had to beg our manager to take the guys to lunch.
And he wouldn't spring 15 bucks for an appetizer.Meanwhile the other side of the building is meeting for drinks at the bar at night dropping easily 10 to 20 bucks per person.At my friend's company, the IT folks get up at 6am, get left at work while everyone goes out drinking for extended lunches (because they are "sales and executives")-- entire company is smaller than my last team.
Executives my ass.Somehow, we let them do this to us.
When I was getting into the field, we were priest kings in air-conditioned rooms with complete power.
But with each passing year, we underbid each other and passed control over to people who worked us to death.Leave the field.If your in it, learn to fail gracefully.Negotiate for more money and leave when they don't give it to you.
Leave them in a lurch.This all sounds like a troll but it's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the "intelligent" folks are working as slaves.How did it come to this?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893659</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Splab</author>
	<datestamp>1256670480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The bubble bursts and a lot of people realized that quite a lot of "professionel" IT had absolutely no idea what they where doing.</p><p>Look on the bright side though, currently bankers, real estate agent etc. are getting the same treatment.</p><p>Also, IT is hard to quantify, a "key account manager" is quite easy to quantify in terms of turnover, and IT is often socially inept people, they aren't good at fighting back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The bubble bursts and a lot of people realized that quite a lot of " professionel " IT had absolutely no idea what they where doing.Look on the bright side though , currently bankers , real estate agent etc .
are getting the same treatment.Also , IT is hard to quantify , a " key account manager " is quite easy to quantify in terms of turnover , and IT is often socially inept people , they are n't good at fighting back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The bubble bursts and a lot of people realized that quite a lot of "professionel" IT had absolutely no idea what they where doing.Look on the bright side though, currently bankers, real estate agent etc.
are getting the same treatment.Also, IT is hard to quantify, a "key account manager" is quite easy to quantify in terms of turnover, and IT is often socially inept people, they aren't good at fighting back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893855</id>
	<title>Office Space - The Topic!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256672940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In this thread, the horrible realities of IT work after 1995.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In this thread , the horrible realities of IT work after 1995 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In this thread, the horrible realities of IT work after 1995.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894067</id>
	<title>Leaving IT?</title>
	<author>JWSmythe</author>
	<datestamp>1256762400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I didn't leave IT.  IT left me.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I went from being on top of my game, running a huge network, to drifting through a few pathetic jobs, and now I'm finishing up my 5th month of unemployment.  Resumes have been flying out the door, targeted to places I'm perfectly qualified for.  The few callbacks I've had were pathetic.  "Sorry, we took someone for 10\% of what you wanted".  "Sorry, you're overqualified.", and my favorite has been headhunters asking me to lie about my credentials.  "Can you add a few more certifications on there?", "Can you add a part about your years of \_\_\_ administration?"  No, I won't lie.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; So I'm doing what I know.  IT was a lot of fun. I really (REALLY) enjoyed it.   The closest I've gotten to IT in the last year has been maintaining a half ass network, and helping people with their desktops.  {sigh}</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; For the last 5 months, I've been helping people.  In exchange, they give me food, a place to live, and other necessities that I may need (hey can you fill my gas tank).   My part of that has been doing auto repairs, home repairs and upgrades, etc, etc.  I like working on cars, so that's been good.  Since I'm not ASE certified, and can't show my years of working in a "shop", I'm not considered for even changing oil.  It's ok, my resume and description of the auto work I've done over the years is in the same stack with kids right out of high school, except the kids are more likely to get the job because the highly qualified IT guy is going to bail as soon as the economy picks up.  {sigh}  I'm amazed at how many running toilets I've fixed, and other assorted "skilled labor" jobs, yet I can't get steady work in any of them due to lack of experience.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I've applied for every job that I could possibly do. Loading docks?  Sure.  Short order cook?  Sure.  Fast food burger flipper? Sure.  Nope, nada.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; When helping people runs out, which I'm sure it will since everyone's broke these days, I may have to turn to more exotic work.  Hit man?  Sure.  Bank robber?  Sure.  Drug runner?  Sure. Cult leader?  Now we're talking.  We'll see how desperate times get.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Right now, my advice to anyone is, don't bail on your career, until it bails on you.  Right now, the odds are it'll happen soon enough, and you too will be exploring the wonderful world of desperation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>    I did n't leave IT .
IT left me .
    I went from being on top of my game , running a huge network , to drifting through a few pathetic jobs , and now I 'm finishing up my 5th month of unemployment .
Resumes have been flying out the door , targeted to places I 'm perfectly qualified for .
The few callbacks I 've had were pathetic .
" Sorry , we took someone for 10 \ % of what you wanted " .
" Sorry , you 're overqualified .
" , and my favorite has been headhunters asking me to lie about my credentials .
" Can you add a few more certifications on there ?
" , " Can you add a part about your years of \ _ \ _ \ _ administration ?
" No , I wo n't lie .
    So I 'm doing what I know .
IT was a lot of fun .
I really ( REALLY ) enjoyed it .
The closest I 've gotten to IT in the last year has been maintaining a half ass network , and helping people with their desktops .
{ sigh }     For the last 5 months , I 've been helping people .
In exchange , they give me food , a place to live , and other necessities that I may need ( hey can you fill my gas tank ) .
My part of that has been doing auto repairs , home repairs and upgrades , etc , etc .
I like working on cars , so that 's been good .
Since I 'm not ASE certified , and ca n't show my years of working in a " shop " , I 'm not considered for even changing oil .
It 's ok , my resume and description of the auto work I 've done over the years is in the same stack with kids right out of high school , except the kids are more likely to get the job because the highly qualified IT guy is going to bail as soon as the economy picks up .
{ sigh } I 'm amazed at how many running toilets I 've fixed , and other assorted " skilled labor " jobs , yet I ca n't get steady work in any of them due to lack of experience .
    I 've applied for every job that I could possibly do .
Loading docks ?
Sure. Short order cook ?
Sure. Fast food burger flipper ?
Sure. Nope , nada .
    When helping people runs out , which I 'm sure it will since everyone 's broke these days , I may have to turn to more exotic work .
Hit man ?
Sure. Bank robber ?
Sure. Drug runner ?
Sure. Cult leader ?
Now we 're talking .
We 'll see how desperate times get .
    Right now , my advice to anyone is , do n't bail on your career , until it bails on you .
Right now , the odds are it 'll happen soon enough , and you too will be exploring the wonderful world of desperation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
    I didn't leave IT.
IT left me.
    I went from being on top of my game, running a huge network, to drifting through a few pathetic jobs, and now I'm finishing up my 5th month of unemployment.
Resumes have been flying out the door, targeted to places I'm perfectly qualified for.
The few callbacks I've had were pathetic.
"Sorry, we took someone for 10\% of what you wanted".
"Sorry, you're overqualified.
", and my favorite has been headhunters asking me to lie about my credentials.
"Can you add a few more certifications on there?
", "Can you add a part about your years of \_\_\_ administration?
"  No, I won't lie.
    So I'm doing what I know.
IT was a lot of fun.
I really (REALLY) enjoyed it.
The closest I've gotten to IT in the last year has been maintaining a half ass network, and helping people with their desktops.
{sigh}
    For the last 5 months, I've been helping people.
In exchange, they give me food, a place to live, and other necessities that I may need (hey can you fill my gas tank).
My part of that has been doing auto repairs, home repairs and upgrades, etc, etc.
I like working on cars, so that's been good.
Since I'm not ASE certified, and can't show my years of working in a "shop", I'm not considered for even changing oil.
It's ok, my resume and description of the auto work I've done over the years is in the same stack with kids right out of high school, except the kids are more likely to get the job because the highly qualified IT guy is going to bail as soon as the economy picks up.
{sigh}  I'm amazed at how many running toilets I've fixed, and other assorted "skilled labor" jobs, yet I can't get steady work in any of them due to lack of experience.
    I've applied for every job that I could possibly do.
Loading docks?
Sure.  Short order cook?
Sure.  Fast food burger flipper?
Sure.  Nope, nada.
    When helping people runs out, which I'm sure it will since everyone's broke these days, I may have to turn to more exotic work.
Hit man?
Sure.  Bank robber?
Sure.  Drug runner?
Sure. Cult leader?
Now we're talking.
We'll see how desperate times get.
    Right now, my advice to anyone is, don't bail on your career, until it bails on you.
Right now, the odds are it'll happen soon enough, and you too will be exploring the wonderful world of desperation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29923167</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256914680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I call bullcrap on this.  There are no "extra points" for martyrdom. I'm not trying to demean (sp?) your point - it is a very valid way of seeing things - but I believe it is not fully thought out. We were not placed her to hate what we do most of our life to raise our kids. Through passionate work, we are much more effective and worthwhile.</p><p>I left a job at one of the top 4 highly respected consulting firms in January...I was on the partner track, top rated, busy, chargeable and making craploads of money. If i wanted I could have stayed 6 more years to make partner. But I hated the work. And I it showed......the passion had left my eyes. So I left, and I enjoy it so much more....and won't ever ever ever ever go back.  It took serious balls - but then again, most choices we NEED to make do.</p><p>The point of having kids is NOT to stop you from enjoying what you do.  It should actually be a reason TO pursue it. Spending 8-9 hours a day doing something you hate so that your kids can temporarily have nice "things" - that they won't care for when they're older. All they care is that you're their mom/dad and give them attention and play with them. What do you want for your kids? You want them to be happy and to do what you love....not just money. Your (and my) parents wanted the exact same for us!</p><p>The point of life - is to love and to enrich the world around you. . By being in a job you dislike a lot - our passion is drained, and<br>I bet much less effective at causing positive change that enrichs the world.  And for what? To have a chance at being a fat bald man in a red BMW convertible who<br>has a hollow life? (credit: 4 hour work week for that analogy).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I call bullcrap on this .
There are no " extra points " for martyrdom .
I 'm not trying to demean ( sp ?
) your point - it is a very valid way of seeing things - but I believe it is not fully thought out .
We were not placed her to hate what we do most of our life to raise our kids .
Through passionate work , we are much more effective and worthwhile.I left a job at one of the top 4 highly respected consulting firms in January...I was on the partner track , top rated , busy , chargeable and making craploads of money .
If i wanted I could have stayed 6 more years to make partner .
But I hated the work .
And I it showed......the passion had left my eyes .
So I left , and I enjoy it so much more....and wo n't ever ever ever ever go back .
It took serious balls - but then again , most choices we NEED to make do.The point of having kids is NOT to stop you from enjoying what you do .
It should actually be a reason TO pursue it .
Spending 8-9 hours a day doing something you hate so that your kids can temporarily have nice " things " - that they wo n't care for when they 're older .
All they care is that you 're their mom/dad and give them attention and play with them .
What do you want for your kids ?
You want them to be happy and to do what you love....not just money .
Your ( and my ) parents wanted the exact same for us ! The point of life - is to love and to enrich the world around you .
. By being in a job you dislike a lot - our passion is drained , andI bet much less effective at causing positive change that enrichs the world .
And for what ?
To have a chance at being a fat bald man in a red BMW convertible whohas a hollow life ?
( credit : 4 hour work week for that analogy ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I call bullcrap on this.
There are no "extra points" for martyrdom.
I'm not trying to demean (sp?
) your point - it is a very valid way of seeing things - but I believe it is not fully thought out.
We were not placed her to hate what we do most of our life to raise our kids.
Through passionate work, we are much more effective and worthwhile.I left a job at one of the top 4 highly respected consulting firms in January...I was on the partner track, top rated, busy, chargeable and making craploads of money.
If i wanted I could have stayed 6 more years to make partner.
But I hated the work.
And I it showed......the passion had left my eyes.
So I left, and I enjoy it so much more....and won't ever ever ever ever go back.
It took serious balls - but then again, most choices we NEED to make do.The point of having kids is NOT to stop you from enjoying what you do.
It should actually be a reason TO pursue it.
Spending 8-9 hours a day doing something you hate so that your kids can temporarily have nice "things" - that they won't care for when they're older.
All they care is that you're their mom/dad and give them attention and play with them.
What do you want for your kids?
You want them to be happy and to do what you love....not just money.
Your (and my) parents wanted the exact same for us!The point of life - is to love and to enrich the world around you.
. By being in a job you dislike a lot - our passion is drained, andI bet much less effective at causing positive change that enrichs the world.
And for what?
To have a chance at being a fat bald man in a red BMW convertible whohas a hollow life?
(credit: 4 hour work week for that analogy).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895315</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897587</id>
	<title>Re:Allow me to summarize</title>
	<author>that IT girl</author>
	<datestamp>1256745840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The work itself. I find that 95\% of my job dissatisfaction has to do with the interaction with people. Isn't that sad? Some say I'm antisocial, but when people do treat us the way they do, we're undervalued, underpaid, people looking more for buzzwords and bits of paper than actual talent... yeah, I guess maybe I do have a bit of resentment for the people I deal with here. Put me in a room and let me work alone on computers, without dealing with the corporate/political bullshit, and I'd be happy as a clam.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The work itself .
I find that 95 \ % of my job dissatisfaction has to do with the interaction with people .
Is n't that sad ?
Some say I 'm antisocial , but when people do treat us the way they do , we 're undervalued , underpaid , people looking more for buzzwords and bits of paper than actual talent... yeah , I guess maybe I do have a bit of resentment for the people I deal with here .
Put me in a room and let me work alone on computers , without dealing with the corporate/political bullshit , and I 'd be happy as a clam .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The work itself.
I find that 95\% of my job dissatisfaction has to do with the interaction with people.
Isn't that sad?
Some say I'm antisocial, but when people do treat us the way they do, we're undervalued, underpaid, people looking more for buzzwords and bits of paper than actual talent... yeah, I guess maybe I do have a bit of resentment for the people I deal with here.
Put me in a room and let me work alone on computers, without dealing with the corporate/political bullshit, and I'd be happy as a clam.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898149</id>
	<title>As a Student...</title>
	<author>squizzi</author>
	<datestamp>1256748060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The myriad of fields is why I chose IT as my major.  I love computers, I've built them since I was 12 or 13, put Fedora on my laptop when it was first launched, etc.  The passion is their for me, especially in the Unix/Linux SysAdmin field (currently taking a RHCE class and taking the exam in January).

But, I have things to fall back on, I'm picking up a business minor, I love english and originally wanted a degree in journalism, but I loved computers to much to pass up IT, I LOVE graphic &amp; web design and run a small online design firm myself, I even had hired a coder that I originally outsourced my clients to, and continue to produce PSDs which I sell to clients.  My coder, a student as well, dropped off the interwebz when his school life got busy, but it was nice while it lasted.  The moneys okay, I'm not known well, but it helps pay for school and I love working for people and hearing their gratitude for a fantastic website design.  I'm building my portfolio with a hobby and with that, if IT doesn't go my way I look forward to applying to design firms around my area, I've already submitted portfolios to some firms for internship opportunities and am awaiting word.

I've heard the woes of the IT world, working for evil corporations and dealing with jackasses, and I've heard the better side of things with my brother who works on a Cisco VOIP test team with a fun work environment and a beer and cookies day.  It's all about loving what you do and enjoying what you do, and if you don't enjoy it then get out FAST.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The myriad of fields is why I chose IT as my major .
I love computers , I 've built them since I was 12 or 13 , put Fedora on my laptop when it was first launched , etc .
The passion is their for me , especially in the Unix/Linux SysAdmin field ( currently taking a RHCE class and taking the exam in January ) .
But , I have things to fall back on , I 'm picking up a business minor , I love english and originally wanted a degree in journalism , but I loved computers to much to pass up IT , I LOVE graphic &amp; web design and run a small online design firm myself , I even had hired a coder that I originally outsourced my clients to , and continue to produce PSDs which I sell to clients .
My coder , a student as well , dropped off the interwebz when his school life got busy , but it was nice while it lasted .
The moneys okay , I 'm not known well , but it helps pay for school and I love working for people and hearing their gratitude for a fantastic website design .
I 'm building my portfolio with a hobby and with that , if IT does n't go my way I look forward to applying to design firms around my area , I 've already submitted portfolios to some firms for internship opportunities and am awaiting word .
I 've heard the woes of the IT world , working for evil corporations and dealing with jackasses , and I 've heard the better side of things with my brother who works on a Cisco VOIP test team with a fun work environment and a beer and cookies day .
It 's all about loving what you do and enjoying what you do , and if you do n't enjoy it then get out FAST .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The myriad of fields is why I chose IT as my major.
I love computers, I've built them since I was 12 or 13, put Fedora on my laptop when it was first launched, etc.
The passion is their for me, especially in the Unix/Linux SysAdmin field (currently taking a RHCE class and taking the exam in January).
But, I have things to fall back on, I'm picking up a business minor, I love english and originally wanted a degree in journalism, but I loved computers to much to pass up IT, I LOVE graphic &amp; web design and run a small online design firm myself, I even had hired a coder that I originally outsourced my clients to, and continue to produce PSDs which I sell to clients.
My coder, a student as well, dropped off the interwebz when his school life got busy, but it was nice while it lasted.
The moneys okay, I'm not known well, but it helps pay for school and I love working for people and hearing their gratitude for a fantastic website design.
I'm building my portfolio with a hobby and with that, if IT doesn't go my way I look forward to applying to design firms around my area, I've already submitted portfolios to some firms for internship opportunities and am awaiting word.
I've heard the woes of the IT world, working for evil corporations and dealing with jackasses, and I've heard the better side of things with my brother who works on a Cisco VOIP test team with a fun work environment and a beer and cookies day.
It's all about loving what you do and enjoying what you do, and if you don't enjoy it then get out FAST.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898093</id>
	<title>The problems with "following a passion"</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1256747760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have heard that simplistic advice all my life.</p><p>The obvious problem with that advice is: most jobs that people are passionate about, are jobs for one percenters, i.e.: writers, musicians, actors, athletes, etc.</p><p>Also, very often, something that is fun to do as an amateur is no fun at all as a professional. I see this all the time: a guy loves playing with his garage band, becomes a professional musician, and absolutely hates every minute of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have heard that simplistic advice all my life.The obvious problem with that advice is : most jobs that people are passionate about , are jobs for one percenters , i.e .
: writers , musicians , actors , athletes , etc.Also , very often , something that is fun to do as an amateur is no fun at all as a professional .
I see this all the time : a guy loves playing with his garage band , becomes a professional musician , and absolutely hates every minute of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have heard that simplistic advice all my life.The obvious problem with that advice is: most jobs that people are passionate about, are jobs for one percenters, i.e.
: writers, musicians, actors, athletes, etc.Also, very often, something that is fun to do as an amateur is no fun at all as a professional.
I see this all the time: a guy loves playing with his garage band, becomes a professional musician, and absolutely hates every minute of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894877</id>
	<title>Re:But what to do?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256730600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm wanting to get away from it as well.  I'm good at it, been doing it for a long time - but I'm sick of it.  At this point I have no idea where to go though.<br>I recently started taking university courses again - going to see where that leads me.</p></div><p>Well, another interest I have is "mind hacking".  Ie, hypnosis.  I plan on going back to school in the Winter for psycology, then I'm going to become certified as a hypnotist.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm wanting to get away from it as well .
I 'm good at it , been doing it for a long time - but I 'm sick of it .
At this point I have no idea where to go though.I recently started taking university courses again - going to see where that leads me.Well , another interest I have is " mind hacking " .
Ie , hypnosis .
I plan on going back to school in the Winter for psycology , then I 'm going to become certified as a hypnotist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm wanting to get away from it as well.
I'm good at it, been doing it for a long time - but I'm sick of it.
At this point I have no idea where to go though.I recently started taking university courses again - going to see where that leads me.Well, another interest I have is "mind hacking".
Ie, hypnosis.
I plan on going back to school in the Winter for psycology, then I'm going to become certified as a hypnotist.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893493</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893747</id>
	<title>I became a magazine editor for 2 years...</title>
	<author>GrpA</author>
	<datestamp>1256671740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did get out of IT entirely for a while. I had been a journalist for about 6 years as a part-time job and found myself suddenly needing to stay at home to help with family problems. About that time a friend knew I was available and asked me to take over a magazine for a few months...</p><p>Well months turned into nearly two years.</p><p>The pay was very poor - About a third of what I had been earning as an R&amp;D engineer.I lived on instant noodles and even small purchases like $20 items had to be budgeted - some months I didn't even have that!</p><p>But I loved the work. I got to meet people and do things I would never have had a chance to otherwise.</p><p>But it was only a temporary position and all good things come to an end. About a week after that job finished, another friend heard I was available and asked me if I would consider working part time working for a large ISP as a presales engineer and I got drawn back into IT.</p><p>It doesn't matter if it's IT or not - the main thing is enjoy the work your doing. You only get one life. Don't wait until it's too late.</p><p>Living like a pauper for two years hurt me financially but I took away the memories of a lifetime. And I got to spend two years working from home and watching my kids grow up... That's something money can't buy.</p><p>GrpA</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did get out of IT entirely for a while .
I had been a journalist for about 6 years as a part-time job and found myself suddenly needing to stay at home to help with family problems .
About that time a friend knew I was available and asked me to take over a magazine for a few months...Well months turned into nearly two years.The pay was very poor - About a third of what I had been earning as an R&amp;D engineer.I lived on instant noodles and even small purchases like $ 20 items had to be budgeted - some months I did n't even have that ! But I loved the work .
I got to meet people and do things I would never have had a chance to otherwise.But it was only a temporary position and all good things come to an end .
About a week after that job finished , another friend heard I was available and asked me if I would consider working part time working for a large ISP as a presales engineer and I got drawn back into IT.It does n't matter if it 's IT or not - the main thing is enjoy the work your doing .
You only get one life .
Do n't wait until it 's too late.Living like a pauper for two years hurt me financially but I took away the memories of a lifetime .
And I got to spend two years working from home and watching my kids grow up... That 's something money ca n't buy.GrpA</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did get out of IT entirely for a while.
I had been a journalist for about 6 years as a part-time job and found myself suddenly needing to stay at home to help with family problems.
About that time a friend knew I was available and asked me to take over a magazine for a few months...Well months turned into nearly two years.The pay was very poor - About a third of what I had been earning as an R&amp;D engineer.I lived on instant noodles and even small purchases like $20 items had to be budgeted - some months I didn't even have that!But I loved the work.
I got to meet people and do things I would never have had a chance to otherwise.But it was only a temporary position and all good things come to an end.
About a week after that job finished, another friend heard I was available and asked me if I would consider working part time working for a large ISP as a presales engineer and I got drawn back into IT.It doesn't matter if it's IT or not - the main thing is enjoy the work your doing.
You only get one life.
Don't wait until it's too late.Living like a pauper for two years hurt me financially but I took away the memories of a lifetime.
And I got to spend two years working from home and watching my kids grow up... That's something money can't buy.GrpA</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893771</id>
	<title>SciOps</title>
	<author>Shag</author>
	<datestamp>1256671920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I spent about 15 years in IT (programmer, sysadmin, webmaster, web dev, consultant).  5.5 years ago consulting was slow (if you knew my town, you'd know why) so I was looking for a full-time sysadmin gig.  Just so happens the biggest local UNIX shops are observatories - the kind with telescopes.</p><p>I was applying for sysadmin jobs when a part-time gig operating a small telescope came along.  I didn't know a whole lot of astronomy (okay, I knew woefully little, and had never had a single class in it) but the telescope was controlled by UNIX and Linux boxes, and I sure as heck knew those.  I had to learn about "right ascension" and "declination."  I picked up some other part-time jobs, so my worst year (2005?) ended up only being 80\% less than my best dot-com year (2002).</p><p>About a year later, I started doing sporadic laser-safety stuff at a couple other observatories.  Not in terms of actually working on the lasers, but in terms of making sure they didn't, um, hit any airplanes.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>A couple years in, some folks who were using the telescope a lot decided that since I was a techie, curious, and actually talked to them (they used an AIM chatroom for communication between collaborators on a couple continents, and all my fellow operators were thoroughly non-instant-messaging sorts), they'd train me to use their data-taking setup (xterms and some custom GUI apps, running in VNCs over an SSH tunnel).  So before long I had entries in ADSABS and a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.gov email address and life was getting weird.</p><p>Last year, after 4 years of being a computer geek surrounded by astronomers, I signed up for an online graduate certificate program in astronomy, in hopes of learning what all those strange words meant.  This spring, being in a graduate program weighed in my favor and I got a full-time job as an operator-in-training at a (much larger) telescope, which basically pays enough to live on, here (and has a lot of upside potential).</p><p>So... pros and cons of going from IT operations to technical work in science operations...</p><p>Cons:<br>You'll never hear anyone talking about crazy dot-edu or dot-org pay.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)<br>The survival of your job depends in part on survival of their funding.<br>If you're a lone wolf or primadonna, operations is not the place for you.<br>Work ethic may be different; no foosball table.</p><p>Pros:<br>Science abhors a vacuum between people's ears, so everyone you work with will be smart in some way or another.<br>Scientists actually recognize and appreciate the fact that You Make Things Work.  (egad!)<br>Hiring authorities often equally happy with a degree in their science, some other science, technology, or engineering.<br>Stress level <i>can</i> be significantly lower in some cases (like mine).</p><p>Oh, and FWIW, science-y places also need electronics engineers, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, programmers, sysadmins, builders of instrumentation - all kinds of techies.</p><p>Just sayin'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I spent about 15 years in IT ( programmer , sysadmin , webmaster , web dev , consultant ) .
5.5 years ago consulting was slow ( if you knew my town , you 'd know why ) so I was looking for a full-time sysadmin gig .
Just so happens the biggest local UNIX shops are observatories - the kind with telescopes.I was applying for sysadmin jobs when a part-time gig operating a small telescope came along .
I did n't know a whole lot of astronomy ( okay , I knew woefully little , and had never had a single class in it ) but the telescope was controlled by UNIX and Linux boxes , and I sure as heck knew those .
I had to learn about " right ascension " and " declination .
" I picked up some other part-time jobs , so my worst year ( 2005 ?
) ended up only being 80 \ % less than my best dot-com year ( 2002 ) .About a year later , I started doing sporadic laser-safety stuff at a couple other observatories .
Not in terms of actually working on the lasers , but in terms of making sure they did n't , um , hit any airplanes .
: ) A couple years in , some folks who were using the telescope a lot decided that since I was a techie , curious , and actually talked to them ( they used an AIM chatroom for communication between collaborators on a couple continents , and all my fellow operators were thoroughly non-instant-messaging sorts ) , they 'd train me to use their data-taking setup ( xterms and some custom GUI apps , running in VNCs over an SSH tunnel ) .
So before long I had entries in ADSABS and a .gov email address and life was getting weird.Last year , after 4 years of being a computer geek surrounded by astronomers , I signed up for an online graduate certificate program in astronomy , in hopes of learning what all those strange words meant .
This spring , being in a graduate program weighed in my favor and I got a full-time job as an operator-in-training at a ( much larger ) telescope , which basically pays enough to live on , here ( and has a lot of upside potential ) .So... pros and cons of going from IT operations to technical work in science operations...Cons : You 'll never hear anyone talking about crazy dot-edu or dot-org pay .
; ) The survival of your job depends in part on survival of their funding.If you 're a lone wolf or primadonna , operations is not the place for you.Work ethic may be different ; no foosball table.Pros : Science abhors a vacuum between people 's ears , so everyone you work with will be smart in some way or another.Scientists actually recognize and appreciate the fact that You Make Things Work .
( egad ! ) Hiring authorities often equally happy with a degree in their science , some other science , technology , or engineering.Stress level can be significantly lower in some cases ( like mine ) .Oh , and FWIW , science-y places also need electronics engineers , electrical engineers , mechanical engineers , programmers , sysadmins , builders of instrumentation - all kinds of techies.Just sayin' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I spent about 15 years in IT (programmer, sysadmin, webmaster, web dev, consultant).
5.5 years ago consulting was slow (if you knew my town, you'd know why) so I was looking for a full-time sysadmin gig.
Just so happens the biggest local UNIX shops are observatories - the kind with telescopes.I was applying for sysadmin jobs when a part-time gig operating a small telescope came along.
I didn't know a whole lot of astronomy (okay, I knew woefully little, and had never had a single class in it) but the telescope was controlled by UNIX and Linux boxes, and I sure as heck knew those.
I had to learn about "right ascension" and "declination.
"  I picked up some other part-time jobs, so my worst year (2005?
) ended up only being 80\% less than my best dot-com year (2002).About a year later, I started doing sporadic laser-safety stuff at a couple other observatories.
Not in terms of actually working on the lasers, but in terms of making sure they didn't, um, hit any airplanes.
:)A couple years in, some folks who were using the telescope a lot decided that since I was a techie, curious, and actually talked to them (they used an AIM chatroom for communication between collaborators on a couple continents, and all my fellow operators were thoroughly non-instant-messaging sorts), they'd train me to use their data-taking setup (xterms and some custom GUI apps, running in VNCs over an SSH tunnel).
So before long I had entries in ADSABS and a .gov email address and life was getting weird.Last year, after 4 years of being a computer geek surrounded by astronomers, I signed up for an online graduate certificate program in astronomy, in hopes of learning what all those strange words meant.
This spring, being in a graduate program weighed in my favor and I got a full-time job as an operator-in-training at a (much larger) telescope, which basically pays enough to live on, here (and has a lot of upside potential).So... pros and cons of going from IT operations to technical work in science operations...Cons:You'll never hear anyone talking about crazy dot-edu or dot-org pay.
;)The survival of your job depends in part on survival of their funding.If you're a lone wolf or primadonna, operations is not the place for you.Work ethic may be different; no foosball table.Pros:Science abhors a vacuum between people's ears, so everyone you work with will be smart in some way or another.Scientists actually recognize and appreciate the fact that You Make Things Work.
(egad!)Hiring authorities often equally happy with a degree in their science, some other science, technology, or engineering.Stress level can be significantly lower in some cases (like mine).Oh, and FWIW, science-y places also need electronics engineers, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, programmers, sysadmins, builders of instrumentation - all kinds of techies.Just sayin'.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895825</id>
	<title>Re:Bean Sprout Farming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256738460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>wait, let me guess.  You don't care who we do it through, you just think it's a great opportunity, but incidently you have some great materials for sale at your web site that would make it a lot easier to get started.  link.  really, check it out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>wait , let me guess .
You do n't care who we do it through , you just think it 's a great opportunity , but incidently you have some great materials for sale at your web site that would make it a lot easier to get started .
link. really , check it out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>wait, let me guess.
You don't care who we do it through, you just think it's a great opportunity, but incidently you have some great materials for sale at your web site that would make it a lot easier to get started.
link.  really, check it out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894309</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256722500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>*Amen* I just accidentally got a marketing job. I market a new software, and its great because they needed my IT backround for it.But no more ^$$H0L3Z not appreciating me until something breaks, under paying and over working me. F IT. I will now use my knowledge and power for evil!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>* Amen * I just accidentally got a marketing job .
I market a new software , and its great because they needed my IT backround for it.But no more ^ $ $ H0L3Z not appreciating me until something breaks , under paying and over working me .
F IT .
I will now use my knowledge and power for evil !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>*Amen* I just accidentally got a marketing job.
I market a new software, and its great because they needed my IT backround for it.But no more ^$$H0L3Z not appreciating me until something breaks, under paying and over working me.
F IT.
I will now use my knowledge and power for evil!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893641</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256670240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How?</p><p>Because we're too stupid.</p><p>People consider airline pilots "glorified bus drivers", that could be further from the truth. Take that to IT and we're just "glorified janitors" who clean up computers and install ink or whatever other IT stuff that people can't seem to wrap their head around.</p><p>If they can cut costs, they will do it which is why the job will go to the lowest bidder. A lot of the time this means that they're pretty much hiring idiots who can't do their job adequately.http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/10/27/2127259/Moving-Away-From-the-IT-Field?art\_pos=1#</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How ? Because we 're too stupid.People consider airline pilots " glorified bus drivers " , that could be further from the truth .
Take that to IT and we 're just " glorified janitors " who clean up computers and install ink or whatever other IT stuff that people ca n't seem to wrap their head around.If they can cut costs , they will do it which is why the job will go to the lowest bidder .
A lot of the time this means that they 're pretty much hiring idiots who ca n't do their job adequately.http : //ask.slashdot.org/story/09/10/27/2127259/Moving-Away-From-the-IT-Field ? art \ _pos = 1 #</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How?Because we're too stupid.People consider airline pilots "glorified bus drivers", that could be further from the truth.
Take that to IT and we're just "glorified janitors" who clean up computers and install ink or whatever other IT stuff that people can't seem to wrap their head around.If they can cut costs, they will do it which is why the job will go to the lowest bidder.
A lot of the time this means that they're pretty much hiring idiots who can't do their job adequately.http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/10/27/2127259/Moving-Away-From-the-IT-Field?art\_pos=1#</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897109</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>dasunt</author>
	<datestamp>1256743860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Yeah because you won't need that car to make any service calls, and hauling around computers and tools is trivial on a bike</p></div></blockquote><p>Distance may be a problem, or time constraints.</p><p>But hauling around computers and tools <a href="http://www.bikesatwork.com/" title="bikesatwork.com">is trivial with the right bicycle setup</a> [bikesatwork.com].<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:p</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah because you wo n't need that car to make any service calls , and hauling around computers and tools is trivial on a bikeDistance may be a problem , or time constraints.But hauling around computers and tools is trivial with the right bicycle setup [ bikesatwork.com ] .
: p</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah because you won't need that car to make any service calls, and hauling around computers and tools is trivial on a bikeDistance may be a problem, or time constraints.But hauling around computers and tools is trivial with the right bicycle setup [bikesatwork.com].
:p
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895973</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29908127</id>
	<title>Tech Writing is a Great Opportunity</title>
	<author>wvh</author>
	<datestamp>1256815200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I already had an undergrad degree in writing before I got my CS degree, and enjoyed IT/sysadmin/sys-programmer work for years. However, I truly "found myself" by combining my CS/IT knowledge with writing about it. Most software companies "need" a writer (whether they know it or not), and being a techie is an asset across the board. Documenting software for end-users is often viewed as a non-critical effort, but customers seem to like it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-) I've also ended up doing product management work for various companies due to my user/product focus - it's a great space to be in. Similarly, I've also written a bunch of nerd books on various topics as a sideline. Feel free to contact me oofline for more verbose info, and some xrefs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I already had an undergrad degree in writing before I got my CS degree , and enjoyed IT/sysadmin/sys-programmer work for years .
However , I truly " found myself " by combining my CS/IT knowledge with writing about it .
Most software companies " need " a writer ( whether they know it or not ) , and being a techie is an asset across the board .
Documenting software for end-users is often viewed as a non-critical effort , but customers seem to like it ; - ) I 've also ended up doing product management work for various companies due to my user/product focus - it 's a great space to be in .
Similarly , I 've also written a bunch of nerd books on various topics as a sideline .
Feel free to contact me oofline for more verbose info , and some xrefs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I already had an undergrad degree in writing before I got my CS degree, and enjoyed IT/sysadmin/sys-programmer work for years.
However, I truly "found myself" by combining my CS/IT knowledge with writing about it.
Most software companies "need" a writer (whether they know it or not), and being a techie is an asset across the board.
Documenting software for end-users is often viewed as a non-critical effort, but customers seem to like it ;-) I've also ended up doing product management work for various companies due to my user/product focus - it's a great space to be in.
Similarly, I've also written a bunch of nerd books on various topics as a sideline.
Feel free to contact me oofline for more verbose info, and some xrefs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902757</id>
	<title>Re:Bean Sprout Farming</title>
	<author>Eil</author>
	<datestamp>1256725140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What does the FDA think of this?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What does the FDA think of this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What does the FDA think of this?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893707</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256671260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am with you, pick what you like, and move in that direction.<br><br>It is so refreshing to see someone really follow their passion. A huge percentage of the population today is stuck in jobs they do not like. This leads to resentment, anger, and eventually very negative release of these emotions. What's worse, the smartest of these make it to the top of the food chain, then take out all of this amassed anger on society. Had they not been pushed into fields that did not suit them, they would have most likely contributed a lot more to society, and left the positions they now occupy to those that could fill such roles while living a happier life, and contributing much more to the world.<br><br>The way I see it, the purpose of life is to do what you want, enjoy doing it, and enjoy helping others do the same. It is very unfortunate that this does not happen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am with you , pick what you like , and move in that direction.It is so refreshing to see someone really follow their passion .
A huge percentage of the population today is stuck in jobs they do not like .
This leads to resentment , anger , and eventually very negative release of these emotions .
What 's worse , the smartest of these make it to the top of the food chain , then take out all of this amassed anger on society .
Had they not been pushed into fields that did not suit them , they would have most likely contributed a lot more to society , and left the positions they now occupy to those that could fill such roles while living a happier life , and contributing much more to the world.The way I see it , the purpose of life is to do what you want , enjoy doing it , and enjoy helping others do the same .
It is very unfortunate that this does not happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am with you, pick what you like, and move in that direction.It is so refreshing to see someone really follow their passion.
A huge percentage of the population today is stuck in jobs they do not like.
This leads to resentment, anger, and eventually very negative release of these emotions.
What's worse, the smartest of these make it to the top of the food chain, then take out all of this amassed anger on society.
Had they not been pushed into fields that did not suit them, they would have most likely contributed a lot more to society, and left the positions they now occupy to those that could fill such roles while living a happier life, and contributing much more to the world.The way I see it, the purpose of life is to do what you want, enjoy doing it, and enjoy helping others do the same.
It is very unfortunate that this does not happen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893565</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256669280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's sarcasm done right.  Not aimed at anyone in particular, not nasty or obvious, sustained and persistent to the end.  Good work muthafucka.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's sarcasm done right .
Not aimed at anyone in particular , not nasty or obvious , sustained and persistent to the end .
Good work muthafucka .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's sarcasm done right.
Not aimed at anyone in particular, not nasty or obvious, sustained and persistent to the end.
Good work muthafucka.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893497</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895883</id>
	<title>From IT to Electrical</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256738880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was the only Network Administrator of a small network for a few years, followed by a couple years as a field technician for a small business that offered contract IT solutions.  I applied, and was a successful candidate, for an apprenticeship program at a power plant.  I'm a full time employee of a huge company doing troubleshooting and maintenance on all kinds of different systems/processes.  The job is very rewarding, and the pay is unbelievable (100k base).  If you can get into an apprenticeship of some kind in the industrial world, I would certainly encourage you to give it a shot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was the only Network Administrator of a small network for a few years , followed by a couple years as a field technician for a small business that offered contract IT solutions .
I applied , and was a successful candidate , for an apprenticeship program at a power plant .
I 'm a full time employee of a huge company doing troubleshooting and maintenance on all kinds of different systems/processes .
The job is very rewarding , and the pay is unbelievable ( 100k base ) .
If you can get into an apprenticeship of some kind in the industrial world , I would certainly encourage you to give it a shot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was the only Network Administrator of a small network for a few years, followed by a couple years as a field technician for a small business that offered contract IT solutions.
I applied, and was a successful candidate, for an apprenticeship program at a power plant.
I'm a full time employee of a huge company doing troubleshooting and maintenance on all kinds of different systems/processes.
The job is very rewarding, and the pay is unbelievable (100k base).
If you can get into an apprenticeship of some kind in the industrial world, I would certainly encourage you to give it a shot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896589</id>
	<title>The best days of the IT industry are behind us</title>
	<author>jonesxxx</author>
	<datestamp>1256741940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have worked in IT for around 30 years. To start with the techies ran everything and  we survived by the seat of our pants because we were good at the technical side. DR and testing were not top of the agenda but the industry was great fun.</p><p>Later computers became more mainstream and most medium sized companies had a handful of mini computers. The managers knew nothing but just kept out of it.</p><p>Today the management consultants have got their claws into IT and so someone who has no experience of IT but has attended a couple of ITIL courses gets put in charge. They have no understanding of the fundamental concepts of IT systems and so they spend all their time on paper shuffling, meetings and politics.</p><p>My job today is endless meetings and reporting and going over the same issues time after time without very much progress being made.</p><p>The jobs have also become more and more specialised. I remember when I ran the OS, the DBMS and the network. Now there is a team of specialists for each of these. Consequently the specialists have no understanding outside their discipline and fault finding has been replaced by a standard set of question and answers with replace or rebuild as the fallback.</p><p>I think that the best days of the IT industry are behind us.</p><p>I have heard that this is the trajectory of most new technologies.</p><p>When the telegraph was invented there were a few people who could operate the morse code machines and they were paid well. These operators became so good that they could recognise each other by the way they tapped the code out. But eventually telephone replaced telegraph and today a telephone engineer's job is probably no more than board swapping.</p><p>We&rsquo;re stuck in it because we&rsquo;re good at it and it pays OK. Too late to start on something else and what else has the chaotic energy of a new industry?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have worked in IT for around 30 years .
To start with the techies ran everything and we survived by the seat of our pants because we were good at the technical side .
DR and testing were not top of the agenda but the industry was great fun.Later computers became more mainstream and most medium sized companies had a handful of mini computers .
The managers knew nothing but just kept out of it.Today the management consultants have got their claws into IT and so someone who has no experience of IT but has attended a couple of ITIL courses gets put in charge .
They have no understanding of the fundamental concepts of IT systems and so they spend all their time on paper shuffling , meetings and politics.My job today is endless meetings and reporting and going over the same issues time after time without very much progress being made.The jobs have also become more and more specialised .
I remember when I ran the OS , the DBMS and the network .
Now there is a team of specialists for each of these .
Consequently the specialists have no understanding outside their discipline and fault finding has been replaced by a standard set of question and answers with replace or rebuild as the fallback.I think that the best days of the IT industry are behind us.I have heard that this is the trajectory of most new technologies.When the telegraph was invented there were a few people who could operate the morse code machines and they were paid well .
These operators became so good that they could recognise each other by the way they tapped the code out .
But eventually telephone replaced telegraph and today a telephone engineer 's job is probably no more than board swapping.We    re stuck in it because we    re good at it and it pays OK. Too late to start on something else and what else has the chaotic energy of a new industry ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have worked in IT for around 30 years.
To start with the techies ran everything and  we survived by the seat of our pants because we were good at the technical side.
DR and testing were not top of the agenda but the industry was great fun.Later computers became more mainstream and most medium sized companies had a handful of mini computers.
The managers knew nothing but just kept out of it.Today the management consultants have got their claws into IT and so someone who has no experience of IT but has attended a couple of ITIL courses gets put in charge.
They have no understanding of the fundamental concepts of IT systems and so they spend all their time on paper shuffling, meetings and politics.My job today is endless meetings and reporting and going over the same issues time after time without very much progress being made.The jobs have also become more and more specialised.
I remember when I ran the OS, the DBMS and the network.
Now there is a team of specialists for each of these.
Consequently the specialists have no understanding outside their discipline and fault finding has been replaced by a standard set of question and answers with replace or rebuild as the fallback.I think that the best days of the IT industry are behind us.I have heard that this is the trajectory of most new technologies.When the telegraph was invented there were a few people who could operate the morse code machines and they were paid well.
These operators became so good that they could recognise each other by the way they tapped the code out.
But eventually telephone replaced telegraph and today a telephone engineer's job is probably no more than board swapping.We’re stuck in it because we’re good at it and it pays OK. Too late to start on something else and what else has the chaotic energy of a new industry?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896333</id>
	<title>Development works for me</title>
	<author>noahisaac</author>
	<datestamp>1256740920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was a Sysadmin and later IT director for almost 10 years.  I, too, got really tired of the thankless work, staying up all night fixing broken stuff and having nobody even notice; having people literally yell at me because the copier had another paper jam.  I quit life as an employee, and started my own IT support company.  That wasn't a whole lot better, and when I started getting requests for websites, I jumped at the chance.  I had to learn SQL, but I had most of the requirement of a CS degree, so I already knew C/C++.  It was a short jump to PHP and Perl, and I had to brush up on HTML/CSS/Javascript a little.  Since I've gotten better at SQL, I've taken on some DBA work, too.

The people I work with as a developer actually seem to appreciate what I do, and I'm no longer the on-call IT dude.  I do still fill in the gaps with IT work, but it's getting less and less frequent, and I couldn't be happier about that.  Good riddance to IT work.  I'm much more suited to development.  Maybe it would work for you, too.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was a Sysadmin and later IT director for almost 10 years .
I , too , got really tired of the thankless work , staying up all night fixing broken stuff and having nobody even notice ; having people literally yell at me because the copier had another paper jam .
I quit life as an employee , and started my own IT support company .
That was n't a whole lot better , and when I started getting requests for websites , I jumped at the chance .
I had to learn SQL , but I had most of the requirement of a CS degree , so I already knew C/C + + .
It was a short jump to PHP and Perl , and I had to brush up on HTML/CSS/Javascript a little .
Since I 've gotten better at SQL , I 've taken on some DBA work , too .
The people I work with as a developer actually seem to appreciate what I do , and I 'm no longer the on-call IT dude .
I do still fill in the gaps with IT work , but it 's getting less and less frequent , and I could n't be happier about that .
Good riddance to IT work .
I 'm much more suited to development .
Maybe it would work for you , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was a Sysadmin and later IT director for almost 10 years.
I, too, got really tired of the thankless work, staying up all night fixing broken stuff and having nobody even notice; having people literally yell at me because the copier had another paper jam.
I quit life as an employee, and started my own IT support company.
That wasn't a whole lot better, and when I started getting requests for websites, I jumped at the chance.
I had to learn SQL, but I had most of the requirement of a CS degree, so I already knew C/C++.
It was a short jump to PHP and Perl, and I had to brush up on HTML/CSS/Javascript a little.
Since I've gotten better at SQL, I've taken on some DBA work, too.
The people I work with as a developer actually seem to appreciate what I do, and I'm no longer the on-call IT dude.
I do still fill in the gaps with IT work, but it's getting less and less frequent, and I couldn't be happier about that.
Good riddance to IT work.
I'm much more suited to development.
Maybe it would work for you, too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896359</id>
	<title>Technology Consulting</title>
	<author>nanobyte123</author>
	<datestamp>1256741040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you have the right personality and don't mind traveling, technology consulting can still be a rewarding and lucrative career.</p><p>I was fortunate enough to work in Europe for over a year and in South America, all before I was 24.  And interacting with C-level executives has been a valuable networking experience.  I've spent the last few years working with major companies on a variety of ERP and strategy projects.  However, I've been able to do this with a smaller firm.  I imagine that the big-5 firms would have more of the "race to the bottom" mentality.</p><p>Also, consulting keeps you on the business side of computing and away from the drudgery of hardware and software development, and therefore making you more valuable to your customers. Whenever I hear people complain about the IT industry, I'm not sure that I understand. If you are passionate about what you do and truly talented, you should have plenty of options to get out of stifling environments.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have the right personality and do n't mind traveling , technology consulting can still be a rewarding and lucrative career.I was fortunate enough to work in Europe for over a year and in South America , all before I was 24 .
And interacting with C-level executives has been a valuable networking experience .
I 've spent the last few years working with major companies on a variety of ERP and strategy projects .
However , I 've been able to do this with a smaller firm .
I imagine that the big-5 firms would have more of the " race to the bottom " mentality.Also , consulting keeps you on the business side of computing and away from the drudgery of hardware and software development , and therefore making you more valuable to your customers .
Whenever I hear people complain about the IT industry , I 'm not sure that I understand .
If you are passionate about what you do and truly talented , you should have plenty of options to get out of stifling environments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have the right personality and don't mind traveling, technology consulting can still be a rewarding and lucrative career.I was fortunate enough to work in Europe for over a year and in South America, all before I was 24.
And interacting with C-level executives has been a valuable networking experience.
I've spent the last few years working with major companies on a variety of ERP and strategy projects.
However, I've been able to do this with a smaller firm.
I imagine that the big-5 firms would have more of the "race to the bottom" mentality.Also, consulting keeps you on the business side of computing and away from the drudgery of hardware and software development, and therefore making you more valuable to your customers.
Whenever I hear people complain about the IT industry, I'm not sure that I understand.
If you are passionate about what you do and truly talented, you should have plenty of options to get out of stifling environments.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29906873</id>
	<title>Whoops!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256753880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Posting to undo borked moderation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Posting to undo borked moderation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Posting to undo borked moderation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896005</id>
	<title>Re:But what to do?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256739420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I got tired of IT and went back to school to study something I enjoyed more, but it turned out to be a bust job-market-wise, plus - to be honest - I'm not as good at it as I was at technology.  The only work I could get was back in IT, but now with my skills out of date and the whole job market in the toilet, I'm stuck doing Help Desk, pushing 40, and growing to hate my life with every passing month.  So "follow your bliss" and "do what you love" are good advice, but make sure you're not burning bridges back to "do what you sorta like" if that's what it comes down to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got tired of IT and went back to school to study something I enjoyed more , but it turned out to be a bust job-market-wise , plus - to be honest - I 'm not as good at it as I was at technology .
The only work I could get was back in IT , but now with my skills out of date and the whole job market in the toilet , I 'm stuck doing Help Desk , pushing 40 , and growing to hate my life with every passing month .
So " follow your bliss " and " do what you love " are good advice , but make sure you 're not burning bridges back to " do what you sorta like " if that 's what it comes down to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got tired of IT and went back to school to study something I enjoyed more, but it turned out to be a bust job-market-wise, plus - to be honest - I'm not as good at it as I was at technology.
The only work I could get was back in IT, but now with my skills out of date and the whole job market in the toilet, I'm stuck doing Help Desk, pushing 40, and growing to hate my life with every passing month.
So "follow your bliss" and "do what you love" are good advice, but make sure you're not burning bridges back to "do what you sorta like" if that's what it comes down to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893493</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894837</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>hairyfish</author>
	<datestamp>1256730300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>IT does generate a positive balance sheet of you manage it properly.
You provide a service, and you charge the business for that service. The problem here is that most IT managers/CIOs are either Techies who don't understand politics, or political animals who don't understand tech. These guys invariably end up getting a raw deal from the business because they don't have the skills they need to do the job properly.
When a Sales Manager asks for a new laptop, we buy a $1500 laptop for $1200 (through bulk purchasing/negotiatiing), then recharge the sales dept $1500 for it.
We buy, build and support the user for a price the user couldn't better themselves. They win, we win.
Apply similar margins to everything to do and suddenly your dept budget is fully funded.
For some reason, IT developed this idea that the rules of the universe don't apply to them. That may have true for a brief decade or two in the 80's and 90's, but since the dotcom bust, we are back in the game. Play the game or fail.</htmltext>
<tokenext>IT does generate a positive balance sheet of you manage it properly .
You provide a service , and you charge the business for that service .
The problem here is that most IT managers/CIOs are either Techies who do n't understand politics , or political animals who do n't understand tech .
These guys invariably end up getting a raw deal from the business because they do n't have the skills they need to do the job properly .
When a Sales Manager asks for a new laptop , we buy a $ 1500 laptop for $ 1200 ( through bulk purchasing/negotiatiing ) , then recharge the sales dept $ 1500 for it .
We buy , build and support the user for a price the user could n't better themselves .
They win , we win .
Apply similar margins to everything to do and suddenly your dept budget is fully funded .
For some reason , IT developed this idea that the rules of the universe do n't apply to them .
That may have true for a brief decade or two in the 80 's and 90 's , but since the dotcom bust , we are back in the game .
Play the game or fail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT does generate a positive balance sheet of you manage it properly.
You provide a service, and you charge the business for that service.
The problem here is that most IT managers/CIOs are either Techies who don't understand politics, or political animals who don't understand tech.
These guys invariably end up getting a raw deal from the business because they don't have the skills they need to do the job properly.
When a Sales Manager asks for a new laptop, we buy a $1500 laptop for $1200 (through bulk purchasing/negotiatiing), then recharge the sales dept $1500 for it.
We buy, build and support the user for a price the user couldn't better themselves.
They win, we win.
Apply similar margins to everything to do and suddenly your dept budget is fully funded.
For some reason, IT developed this idea that the rules of the universe don't apply to them.
That may have true for a brief decade or two in the 80's and 90's, but since the dotcom bust, we are back in the game.
Play the game or fail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893631</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893633</id>
	<title>Mechanics</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256670180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I became a performance mechanic, the salary is good, the work is easy, and i still use my problem solving skills from my previous technician job. But now people wont bitch about $250 for a powersupply, harddrive and windows reinstallation, now they'll pay $2500 for something they don't understand and feel good about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I became a performance mechanic , the salary is good , the work is easy , and i still use my problem solving skills from my previous technician job .
But now people wont bitch about $ 250 for a powersupply , harddrive and windows reinstallation , now they 'll pay $ 2500 for something they do n't understand and feel good about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I became a performance mechanic, the salary is good, the work is easy, and i still use my problem solving skills from my previous technician job.
But now people wont bitch about $250 for a powersupply, harddrive and windows reinstallation, now they'll pay $2500 for something they don't understand and feel good about it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893491</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>int69h</author>
	<datestamp>1256668440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The money is decent, especially if you're willing to travel.  You do have to keep your skillset up to date in order to keep your license.  From what I can tell there's quite a bit of fraud involved though, especially in home health and rehabs, so CYOA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The money is decent , especially if you 're willing to travel .
You do have to keep your skillset up to date in order to keep your license .
From what I can tell there 's quite a bit of fraud involved though , especially in home health and rehabs , so CYOA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The money is decent, especially if you're willing to travel.
You do have to keep your skillset up to date in order to keep your license.
From what I can tell there's quite a bit of fraud involved though, especially in home health and rehabs, so CYOA.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893979</id>
	<title>Back to school myself, but it's not easy</title>
	<author>Knutsi</author>
	<datestamp>1256760960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've started studying again after about five years of IT work.  Its been a mixed experience, especially the financial side of it, and also to marshal the motivation to keep going at times.  I'm on a study project that will take me seven years total, but once done I will (hopefully) have a secure high income job as a medical doctor.

</p><p>So, I'm moving away from IT to deal MORE with people.  I found the most enjoyable part of my old job to be working with the users of the projects we implemented, and especially holding courses and design workshops.

</p><p>As for dealing with the financial side of going back to school - this is hard.  Quite simply hard. But also surprisingly rewarding at times as well.  I now find I'm proud I can survive on much less, and also not having access to all the latest kit made me aware of how addictive it can be to buy things.  It's almost as if it provides a kind of escapism, always buying a new gadget.  Now cannot, and it's okay.

</p><p>The biggest problem I feel though, is that I can no longer keep up with my girlfriends lifestyle.  Her life is more like my old, with more travel, going out with people and buying things.  Mine is locked to my studies, and I cannot afford expensive pastimes like going out for dinner allot.

</p><p>At the same time, to immerse myself in the science courses I'm currently taking can be very rewarding, and its good to have a project in life with a definite goal down the line to work towards.

</p><p>But have no illusion this is easy - a solid job you know well with a high income is very very comfortable.  But sometimes you have to move out of your comfort zone to progress I guess.  I'm mostly happy to be away from IT.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've started studying again after about five years of IT work .
Its been a mixed experience , especially the financial side of it , and also to marshal the motivation to keep going at times .
I 'm on a study project that will take me seven years total , but once done I will ( hopefully ) have a secure high income job as a medical doctor .
So , I 'm moving away from IT to deal MORE with people .
I found the most enjoyable part of my old job to be working with the users of the projects we implemented , and especially holding courses and design workshops .
As for dealing with the financial side of going back to school - this is hard .
Quite simply hard .
But also surprisingly rewarding at times as well .
I now find I 'm proud I can survive on much less , and also not having access to all the latest kit made me aware of how addictive it can be to buy things .
It 's almost as if it provides a kind of escapism , always buying a new gadget .
Now can not , and it 's okay .
The biggest problem I feel though , is that I can no longer keep up with my girlfriends lifestyle .
Her life is more like my old , with more travel , going out with people and buying things .
Mine is locked to my studies , and I can not afford expensive pastimes like going out for dinner allot .
At the same time , to immerse myself in the science courses I 'm currently taking can be very rewarding , and its good to have a project in life with a definite goal down the line to work towards .
But have no illusion this is easy - a solid job you know well with a high income is very very comfortable .
But sometimes you have to move out of your comfort zone to progress I guess .
I 'm mostly happy to be away from IT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've started studying again after about five years of IT work.
Its been a mixed experience, especially the financial side of it, and also to marshal the motivation to keep going at times.
I'm on a study project that will take me seven years total, but once done I will (hopefully) have a secure high income job as a medical doctor.
So, I'm moving away from IT to deal MORE with people.
I found the most enjoyable part of my old job to be working with the users of the projects we implemented, and especially holding courses and design workshops.
As for dealing with the financial side of going back to school - this is hard.
Quite simply hard.
But also surprisingly rewarding at times as well.
I now find I'm proud I can survive on much less, and also not having access to all the latest kit made me aware of how addictive it can be to buy things.
It's almost as if it provides a kind of escapism, always buying a new gadget.
Now cannot, and it's okay.
The biggest problem I feel though, is that I can no longer keep up with my girlfriends lifestyle.
Her life is more like my old, with more travel, going out with people and buying things.
Mine is locked to my studies, and I cannot afford expensive pastimes like going out for dinner allot.
At the same time, to immerse myself in the science courses I'm currently taking can be very rewarding, and its good to have a project in life with a definite goal down the line to work towards.
But have no illusion this is easy - a solid job you know well with a high income is very very comfortable.
But sometimes you have to move out of your comfort zone to progress I guess.
I'm mostly happy to be away from IT.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902631</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>TikiTDO</author>
	<datestamp>1256724540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>All good points, which, I believe, illustrate some major problems with the current system. This is not something you can change overnight, and I'm not suggesting you try. However, it is a good goal to work towards. If you hate your job, start training for something you like. Worst case, you learn about a topic you enjoy, and don't take it anywhere. Best case, you can go into a new area and enjoy work a lot more, and lead an even more fulfilling life.<br><br>My response to fiannaFailMan later in the thread elaborates on this in a lot more detail.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All good points , which , I believe , illustrate some major problems with the current system .
This is not something you can change overnight , and I 'm not suggesting you try .
However , it is a good goal to work towards .
If you hate your job , start training for something you like .
Worst case , you learn about a topic you enjoy , and do n't take it anywhere .
Best case , you can go into a new area and enjoy work a lot more , and lead an even more fulfilling life.My response to fiannaFailMan later in the thread elaborates on this in a lot more detail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All good points, which, I believe, illustrate some major problems with the current system.
This is not something you can change overnight, and I'm not suggesting you try.
However, it is a good goal to work towards.
If you hate your job, start training for something you like.
Worst case, you learn about a topic you enjoy, and don't take it anywhere.
Best case, you can go into a new area and enjoy work a lot more, and lead an even more fulfilling life.My response to fiannaFailMan later in the thread elaborates on this in a lot more detail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895315</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29904061</id>
	<title>Re:Very timely...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256732340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To fund my 6 month "find myself" vacation in Sweden, I rented out my BMW and 6 bedroom beach-side cabin.</p><p>Yeaaaah..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To fund my 6 month " find myself " vacation in Sweden , I rented out my BMW and 6 bedroom beach-side cabin.Yeaaaah. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To fund my 6 month "find myself" vacation in Sweden, I rented out my BMW and 6 bedroom beach-side cabin.Yeaaaah..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894027</id>
	<title>IT is the leafblowing of technical jobs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256761620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All you're doing is making sure the computers are working.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All you 're doing is making sure the computers are working .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All you're doing is making sure the computers are working.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896671</id>
	<title>I went into aviation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256742180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been in IT for over 15 years now.  It's been good to me, but I recently left it for aviation.  A few years ago I decided to stop working for money and work for fun.  I went and got my A&amp;P license and now I work for a regional airline.  I love what I do, I make decent money, and can you say flight benefits???  Aviation is a great career.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been in IT for over 15 years now .
It 's been good to me , but I recently left it for aviation .
A few years ago I decided to stop working for money and work for fun .
I went and got my A&amp;P license and now I work for a regional airline .
I love what I do , I make decent money , and can you say flight benefits ? ? ?
Aviation is a great career .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been in IT for over 15 years now.
It's been good to me, but I recently left it for aviation.
A few years ago I decided to stop working for money and work for fun.
I went and got my A&amp;P license and now I work for a regional airline.
I love what I do, I make decent money, and can you say flight benefits???
Aviation is a great career.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896893</id>
	<title>How to deal with the pay raise?</title>
	<author>aminorex</author>
	<datestamp>1256743080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I moved from software engineering to quantitative financial analysis, and my pay scale tripled.  Now most of my colleagues have been let go in the past year, and switched to hotel motel restaraunt management or some such, but those of us who are left are still making more than 20 year software engineers.  No one is hiring in this area, however.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I moved from software engineering to quantitative financial analysis , and my pay scale tripled .
Now most of my colleagues have been let go in the past year , and switched to hotel motel restaraunt management or some such , but those of us who are left are still making more than 20 year software engineers .
No one is hiring in this area , however .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I moved from software engineering to quantitative financial analysis, and my pay scale tripled.
Now most of my colleagues have been let go in the past year, and switched to hotel motel restaraunt management or some such, but those of us who are left are still making more than 20 year software engineers.
No one is hiring in this area, however.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898181</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>pwfffff</author>
	<datestamp>1256748180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I second this... It's not even that the small talk about nothing offends me; it's that the small talk is either about my coworker's wives, children, lawn or fantasy football team. That's hard to relate to for a single guy living in an apartment and playing video games all day.</p><p>I can either leave the conversation, make up a story about how I saw some kids on a lawn playing football once, or speak honestly: "Oh, you have two kids? They keep you up all the time? Well that was a dumb choice now then, wasn't it?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I second this... It 's not even that the small talk about nothing offends me ; it 's that the small talk is either about my coworker 's wives , children , lawn or fantasy football team .
That 's hard to relate to for a single guy living in an apartment and playing video games all day.I can either leave the conversation , make up a story about how I saw some kids on a lawn playing football once , or speak honestly : " Oh , you have two kids ?
They keep you up all the time ?
Well that was a dumb choice now then , was n't it ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I second this... It's not even that the small talk about nothing offends me; it's that the small talk is either about my coworker's wives, children, lawn or fantasy football team.
That's hard to relate to for a single guy living in an apartment and playing video games all day.I can either leave the conversation, make up a story about how I saw some kids on a lawn playing football once, or speak honestly: "Oh, you have two kids?
They keep you up all the time?
Well that was a dumb choice now then, wasn't it?
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896381</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900295</id>
	<title>re:  Moving Away From the IT Field?</title>
	<author>dlparker</author>
	<datestamp>1256757000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would not recommend my method, but here's what I did (keep in mind that "Life is what happens while we're busy making plans." - unk.):</p><p>I got old.  As soon as I was eligible to begin receiving benefits from one (relatively meager though not bad considering all company contributions and only 11 years with the company) retirement plan I did it.  Once I became eligible for SS I took it.  Several years before that (around my 54th or 55th birthday), I went back to my first love: music.  I continued my independent IT consultant career, started playing my guitar again, got in some bands, and realized that this is what I should have been doing all along -</p><p>RULE #1 - follow your muse</p><p>RULE #2 - figure out a way to make money doing it</p><p>RULE #3 - pay your bills and be fair to everyone.</p><p>RULE #4 - keep following rules 1-3 until they nail the lid shut.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would not recommend my method , but here 's what I did ( keep in mind that " Life is what happens while we 're busy making plans .
" - unk .
) : I got old .
As soon as I was eligible to begin receiving benefits from one ( relatively meager though not bad considering all company contributions and only 11 years with the company ) retirement plan I did it .
Once I became eligible for SS I took it .
Several years before that ( around my 54th or 55th birthday ) , I went back to my first love : music .
I continued my independent IT consultant career , started playing my guitar again , got in some bands , and realized that this is what I should have been doing all along -RULE # 1 - follow your museRULE # 2 - figure out a way to make money doing itRULE # 3 - pay your bills and be fair to everyone.RULE # 4 - keep following rules 1-3 until they nail the lid shut .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would not recommend my method, but here's what I did (keep in mind that "Life is what happens while we're busy making plans.
" - unk.
):I got old.
As soon as I was eligible to begin receiving benefits from one (relatively meager though not bad considering all company contributions and only 11 years with the company) retirement plan I did it.
Once I became eligible for SS I took it.
Several years before that (around my 54th or 55th birthday), I went back to my first love: music.
I continued my independent IT consultant career, started playing my guitar again, got in some bands, and realized that this is what I should have been doing all along -RULE #1 - follow your museRULE #2 - figure out a way to make money doing itRULE #3 - pay your bills and be fair to everyone.RULE #4 - keep following rules 1-3 until they nail the lid shut.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893819</id>
	<title>Got out</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256672460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Went back to school, got a BSME, married another BSME, designed circuits and ran a MEMS lab while putting her through her masters and phd.<br>Now we both work at WeBuildAirplanes in a rainy washington city, and the only machines I have root on are the ones at home.</p><p>Much better money, better benefits, as much stability as you can get in this company, and I still have time for my favorite hobby of collecting skills/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Went back to school , got a BSME , married another BSME , designed circuits and ran a MEMS lab while putting her through her masters and phd.Now we both work at WeBuildAirplanes in a rainy washington city , and the only machines I have root on are the ones at home.Much better money , better benefits , as much stability as you can get in this company , and I still have time for my favorite hobby of collecting skills/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Went back to school, got a BSME, married another BSME, designed circuits and ran a MEMS lab while putting her through her masters and phd.Now we both work at WeBuildAirplanes in a rainy washington city, and the only machines I have root on are the ones at home.Much better money, better benefits, as much stability as you can get in this company, and I still have time for my favorite hobby of collecting skills/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29907917</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>The\_Quinn</author>
	<datestamp>1256811960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <a href="http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=video&amp;video-id=2616" title="pjtv.com" rel="nofollow">Alan Greenspan hasn't been a capitalist since the 60's</a> [pjtv.com], any more than Hillary Clinton is (who professed to be a deep fan of Atlas Shrugged).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Alan Greenspan has n't been a capitalist since the 60 's [ pjtv.com ] , any more than Hillary Clinton is ( who professed to be a deep fan of Atlas Shrugged ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Alan Greenspan hasn't been a capitalist since the 60's [pjtv.com], any more than Hillary Clinton is (who professed to be a deep fan of Atlas Shrugged).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894697</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256728680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to be a sales manager, managing a team of sales reps selling services.</p><p>Then I switched to video server pre-sales, traveling to customers around Europe. I spend my days in Linux, networks, mpeg encoders and decoders.<br>Now I'm doing what I really like, and what i can really do better than others.</p><p>Plus the paycheck is 50\% higher than before<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>Ok, it took me some time to find the job and do the transition, but I'm so glad I did it!</p><p>There are nice jobs out of IT, I don't consider myself as doing IT, plus I make more money than the average IT guy.</p><p>You need to find what it is that you like doing, what you do better than others, then choose the job that would use this and make you succesful and happy. It can take a few month to really discover this.</p><p>Good luck</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to be a sales manager , managing a team of sales reps selling services.Then I switched to video server pre-sales , traveling to customers around Europe .
I spend my days in Linux , networks , mpeg encoders and decoders.Now I 'm doing what I really like , and what i can really do better than others.Plus the paycheck is 50 \ % higher than before ...Ok , it took me some time to find the job and do the transition , but I 'm so glad I did it ! There are nice jobs out of IT , I do n't consider myself as doing IT , plus I make more money than the average IT guy.You need to find what it is that you like doing , what you do better than others , then choose the job that would use this and make you succesful and happy .
It can take a few month to really discover this.Good luck</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to be a sales manager, managing a team of sales reps selling services.Then I switched to video server pre-sales, traveling to customers around Europe.
I spend my days in Linux, networks, mpeg encoders and decoders.Now I'm doing what I really like, and what i can really do better than others.Plus the paycheck is 50\% higher than before ...Ok, it took me some time to find the job and do the transition, but I'm so glad I did it!There are nice jobs out of IT, I don't consider myself as doing IT, plus I make more money than the average IT guy.You need to find what it is that you like doing, what you do better than others, then choose the job that would use this and make you succesful and happy.
It can take a few month to really discover this.Good luck</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29901615</id>
	<title>So much self improvement</title>
	<author>kezzsim</author>
	<datestamp>1256762700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, I wouldn't know myself,
But recently my dear old dad was laid off from his crazy Israeli networking start-up... You could tell they weren't going to last long anyway (they couldn't even afford a single copy of air magnet for their surveyors to use!). but since then it seems there's no tech industries around willing to hire the old man... they're busy eating up all the low-pay college kids they can find to fill a cheap void for now. So on the flip side, he's given up hope and is going to night school to become a home inspector.Which I suppose unlike IT is a kind of thing that can't dissolve overnight, after all, everyone needs a place to live, right?

ironically, I myself am a college student looking to enter the IT field someday with a degree in programming. Hopefully they'll still be such a thing by the time I graduate...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , I would n't know myself , But recently my dear old dad was laid off from his crazy Israeli networking start-up... You could tell they were n't going to last long anyway ( they could n't even afford a single copy of air magnet for their surveyors to use ! ) .
but since then it seems there 's no tech industries around willing to hire the old man... they 're busy eating up all the low-pay college kids they can find to fill a cheap void for now .
So on the flip side , he 's given up hope and is going to night school to become a home inspector.Which I suppose unlike IT is a kind of thing that ca n't dissolve overnight , after all , everyone needs a place to live , right ?
ironically , I myself am a college student looking to enter the IT field someday with a degree in programming .
Hopefully they 'll still be such a thing by the time I graduate.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, I wouldn't know myself,
But recently my dear old dad was laid off from his crazy Israeli networking start-up... You could tell they weren't going to last long anyway (they couldn't even afford a single copy of air magnet for their surveyors to use!).
but since then it seems there's no tech industries around willing to hire the old man... they're busy eating up all the low-pay college kids they can find to fill a cheap void for now.
So on the flip side, he's given up hope and is going to night school to become a home inspector.Which I suppose unlike IT is a kind of thing that can't dissolve overnight, after all, everyone needs a place to live, right?
ironically, I myself am a college student looking to enter the IT field someday with a degree in programming.
Hopefully they'll still be such a thing by the time I graduate...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896995</id>
	<title>How old?  Mid Life Crisis??</title>
	<author>HycoWhit</author>
	<datestamp>1256743440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you are male and between the ages of 38 and 42--make sure you are quiting your job for the right reason.  There seems to be a natural urge in men to do one or more of three things:  1) Quit your job 2) Leave your wife, or 3) Buy a sports car.  The advice I learned after leaving my job at Bell Labs for a career in real estate was to buy the sports car--it is by far the cheapest option....</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are male and between the ages of 38 and 42--make sure you are quiting your job for the right reason .
There seems to be a natural urge in men to do one or more of three things : 1 ) Quit your job 2 ) Leave your wife , or 3 ) Buy a sports car .
The advice I learned after leaving my job at Bell Labs for a career in real estate was to buy the sports car--it is by far the cheapest option... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are male and between the ages of 38 and 42--make sure you are quiting your job for the right reason.
There seems to be a natural urge in men to do one or more of three things:  1) Quit your job 2) Leave your wife, or 3) Buy a sports car.
The advice I learned after leaving my job at Bell Labs for a career in real estate was to buy the sports car--it is by far the cheapest option....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29899523</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>fiannaFailMan</author>
	<datestamp>1256754060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What's worse, the smartest of these make it to the top of the food chain, then take out all of this amassed anger on society.</p> </div><p>What's all this about?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's worse , the smartest of these make it to the top of the food chain , then take out all of this amassed anger on society .
What 's all this about ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's worse, the smartest of these make it to the top of the food chain, then take out all of this amassed anger on society.
What's all this about?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893485</id>
	<title>OfficeMax.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256668320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went from doing contract work, to retail.<br>While it was nice to go back to school; I really don't care for retail.  My hours suck, my pay sucks, people I work with don't suck, but some (few) customers suck; most are just unable to figure something easy out on their own.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went from doing contract work , to retail.While it was nice to go back to school ; I really do n't care for retail .
My hours suck , my pay sucks , people I work with do n't suck , but some ( few ) customers suck ; most are just unable to figure something easy out on their own .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went from doing contract work, to retail.While it was nice to go back to school; I really don't care for retail.
My hours suck, my pay sucks, people I work with don't suck, but some (few) customers suck; most are just unable to figure something easy out on their own.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897649</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>jandersen</author>
	<datestamp>1256746080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Also, I like the quote you ended with. Do you mind if I use that?</p></div><p>Sorry, I forgot to answer this one - of course you can<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) I'm glad you like it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , I like the quote you ended with .
Do you mind if I use that ? Sorry , I forgot to answer this one - of course you can : - ) I 'm glad you like it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, I like the quote you ended with.
Do you mind if I use that?Sorry, I forgot to answer this one - of course you can :-) I'm glad you like it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896381</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894845</id>
	<title>Outside (kind of) looking in.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256730360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been out of IT for a while due to the previous recession. To be honest, I was a carry-over from the old IT bubble and was a bit underqualified as a programmer at the start with but I think I did okay in the long-run. It was programming that gave me the appreciation of being thrown in the deep end and told to swim. A great way to learn, as I see it.<br>I've since worked in construction for the last several years. The work is a LOT easier than programming and I've gotten to work on several high-profile buildings. It's great being a part of the skyline, if only in a tiny way.<br>I've been going to school to upgrade my skills because I still love programming. Yeah, at the end of a long day sometimes the last thing I want to do is code, but it's still fun. I've tried getting back into programming work but, frankly, a lot of the jobs I've seen don't offer starting pay comparable to what I'm earning now. It's also a big stigma being out of the "biz" for so long. I'm close to finishing my second degree so we'll see what happens.<br>I'm of the opinion that anyone who can live out Confucius' saying regarding "doing what you love" and "never really working" are lucky people. I like what I'm doing now, but if you're unhappy there's nothing wrong with trying to remedy that situation. As long as you can still pay the light bill....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been out of IT for a while due to the previous recession .
To be honest , I was a carry-over from the old IT bubble and was a bit underqualified as a programmer at the start with but I think I did okay in the long-run .
It was programming that gave me the appreciation of being thrown in the deep end and told to swim .
A great way to learn , as I see it.I 've since worked in construction for the last several years .
The work is a LOT easier than programming and I 've gotten to work on several high-profile buildings .
It 's great being a part of the skyline , if only in a tiny way.I 've been going to school to upgrade my skills because I still love programming .
Yeah , at the end of a long day sometimes the last thing I want to do is code , but it 's still fun .
I 've tried getting back into programming work but , frankly , a lot of the jobs I 've seen do n't offer starting pay comparable to what I 'm earning now .
It 's also a big stigma being out of the " biz " for so long .
I 'm close to finishing my second degree so we 'll see what happens.I 'm of the opinion that anyone who can live out Confucius ' saying regarding " doing what you love " and " never really working " are lucky people .
I like what I 'm doing now , but if you 're unhappy there 's nothing wrong with trying to remedy that situation .
As long as you can still pay the light bill... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been out of IT for a while due to the previous recession.
To be honest, I was a carry-over from the old IT bubble and was a bit underqualified as a programmer at the start with but I think I did okay in the long-run.
It was programming that gave me the appreciation of being thrown in the deep end and told to swim.
A great way to learn, as I see it.I've since worked in construction for the last several years.
The work is a LOT easier than programming and I've gotten to work on several high-profile buildings.
It's great being a part of the skyline, if only in a tiny way.I've been going to school to upgrade my skills because I still love programming.
Yeah, at the end of a long day sometimes the last thing I want to do is code, but it's still fun.
I've tried getting back into programming work but, frankly, a lot of the jobs I've seen don't offer starting pay comparable to what I'm earning now.
It's also a big stigma being out of the "biz" for so long.
I'm close to finishing my second degree so we'll see what happens.I'm of the opinion that anyone who can live out Confucius' saying regarding "doing what you love" and "never really working" are lucky people.
I like what I'm doing now, but if you're unhappy there's nothing wrong with trying to remedy that situation.
As long as you can still pay the light bill....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29908185</id>
	<title>A real ITer?</title>
	<author>TheMaTrIxBEL</author>
	<datestamp>1256816400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Leave, please do, if you can see yourself not doing IT, your not a real ITer (don't get me wrong, you might be skilled and good at it) but in the beginning, there was Geeks, geeks became ITers, they were few.
Golden times for the geeks, they didn't care to much about the money, they just loved their work.

Then, others saw money was to be made and an influx of people, who don't give a hoot about anything IT but the money that could be made, and were smart enough to learn some skills, started entering the industrie en masse.

Golden days of IT were over, corporate bullshit took over, because these fake ITers took every chance they could take to climb the management ladder, creating management jobs if there weren't any, while the real geeks were left doing what they love doing, now getting bugged and annoyed by IT managers that shouldn't even exist.

Now that there isn't as much money to be made in IT, only the real ones will remain, a real ITer, a real geek, is incapable of doing anything else, and would never change jobs for more money. They might change to go from unemployment to something else, but if they can then switch back to IT, even for less money, they will.

Question now, are you a real ITer that has lost or forgotten his inner geek. Or are you one of the fake money wolves that ruined the business, and now that managed to ruin it, wants to leave for another industrie to ruin.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Leave , please do , if you can see yourself not doing IT , your not a real ITer ( do n't get me wrong , you might be skilled and good at it ) but in the beginning , there was Geeks , geeks became ITers , they were few .
Golden times for the geeks , they did n't care to much about the money , they just loved their work .
Then , others saw money was to be made and an influx of people , who do n't give a hoot about anything IT but the money that could be made , and were smart enough to learn some skills , started entering the industrie en masse .
Golden days of IT were over , corporate bullshit took over , because these fake ITers took every chance they could take to climb the management ladder , creating management jobs if there were n't any , while the real geeks were left doing what they love doing , now getting bugged and annoyed by IT managers that should n't even exist .
Now that there is n't as much money to be made in IT , only the real ones will remain , a real ITer , a real geek , is incapable of doing anything else , and would never change jobs for more money .
They might change to go from unemployment to something else , but if they can then switch back to IT , even for less money , they will .
Question now , are you a real ITer that has lost or forgotten his inner geek .
Or are you one of the fake money wolves that ruined the business , and now that managed to ruin it , wants to leave for another industrie to ruin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Leave, please do, if you can see yourself not doing IT, your not a real ITer (don't get me wrong, you might be skilled and good at it) but in the beginning, there was Geeks, geeks became ITers, they were few.
Golden times for the geeks, they didn't care to much about the money, they just loved their work.
Then, others saw money was to be made and an influx of people, who don't give a hoot about anything IT but the money that could be made, and were smart enough to learn some skills, started entering the industrie en masse.
Golden days of IT were over, corporate bullshit took over, because these fake ITers took every chance they could take to climb the management ladder, creating management jobs if there weren't any, while the real geeks were left doing what they love doing, now getting bugged and annoyed by IT managers that shouldn't even exist.
Now that there isn't as much money to be made in IT, only the real ones will remain, a real ITer, a real geek, is incapable of doing anything else, and would never change jobs for more money.
They might change to go from unemployment to something else, but if they can then switch back to IT, even for less money, they will.
Question now, are you a real ITer that has lost or forgotten his inner geek.
Or are you one of the fake money wolves that ruined the business, and now that managed to ruin it, wants to leave for another industrie to ruin.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29906147</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>randyleepublic</author>
	<datestamp>1256746860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Brother!!!
<br> <br>
Please read my sig.  Douglas was one of the greatest minds of the last 100 years.  He created the framwork on which we could build a viable utopia.
<br> <br>
Best regards,</htmltext>
<tokenext>Brother ! ! !
Please read my sig .
Douglas was one of the greatest minds of the last 100 years .
He created the framwork on which we could build a viable utopia .
Best regards,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Brother!!!
Please read my sig.
Douglas was one of the greatest minds of the last 100 years.
He created the framwork on which we could build a viable utopia.
Best regards,</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897981</id>
	<title>In the process</title>
	<author>swigabyte</author>
	<datestamp>1256747340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, I too have been fed up with corporate mentality for along time. I did web programming as an independent for about 8 years. Then decided to get on board with the my primary client (become an employee). I enjoyed interacting with people more (more social environment) and the regular schedule.  But, productivity wise, I felt I was wasting my time. Every other manager, and 3rd party project manager had there own agenda. No one wanted to take responsibility for anything and were not willing to do anything outside of there current tasks.  Some of them were even incompetent when it came to their primary job. Anyway,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  I've always had a creative side, dabbling in this and that.  So, after about 3 years working there, my wife and I decided to make some changes. I am now working as an independent again (making about half what I was). We're living more simply and paying debt off to allow for less income. I'm still programming. But, my wife and I are working together on doing pottery, with the intent to make it a business. I love programming, and hope to continue to use those skills to sell our stuff online. Learning pottery as a new skill is fun, and I really like that it allows me to be creative too. I wound't recommend switching cold-turkey, cause you may find out your new profession is not for you after much time and energy training. Test out the waters for awhile in your spare time (lol). Make friends with others who are already proficient in that field, they may be able to give in-site to help you decide if the life style is for you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , I too have been fed up with corporate mentality for along time .
I did web programming as an independent for about 8 years .
Then decided to get on board with the my primary client ( become an employee ) .
I enjoyed interacting with people more ( more social environment ) and the regular schedule .
But , productivity wise , I felt I was wasting my time .
Every other manager , and 3rd party project manager had there own agenda .
No one wanted to take responsibility for anything and were not willing to do anything outside of there current tasks .
Some of them were even incompetent when it came to their primary job .
Anyway , ... I 've always had a creative side , dabbling in this and that .
So , after about 3 years working there , my wife and I decided to make some changes .
I am now working as an independent again ( making about half what I was ) .
We 're living more simply and paying debt off to allow for less income .
I 'm still programming .
But , my wife and I are working together on doing pottery , with the intent to make it a business .
I love programming , and hope to continue to use those skills to sell our stuff online .
Learning pottery as a new skill is fun , and I really like that it allows me to be creative too .
I wound't recommend switching cold-turkey , cause you may find out your new profession is not for you after much time and energy training .
Test out the waters for awhile in your spare time ( lol ) .
Make friends with others who are already proficient in that field , they may be able to give in-site to help you decide if the life style is for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, I too have been fed up with corporate mentality for along time.
I did web programming as an independent for about 8 years.
Then decided to get on board with the my primary client (become an employee).
I enjoyed interacting with people more (more social environment) and the regular schedule.
But, productivity wise, I felt I was wasting my time.
Every other manager, and 3rd party project manager had there own agenda.
No one wanted to take responsibility for anything and were not willing to do anything outside of there current tasks.
Some of them were even incompetent when it came to their primary job.
Anyway, ...  I've always had a creative side, dabbling in this and that.
So, after about 3 years working there, my wife and I decided to make some changes.
I am now working as an independent again (making about half what I was).
We're living more simply and paying debt off to allow for less income.
I'm still programming.
But, my wife and I are working together on doing pottery, with the intent to make it a business.
I love programming, and hope to continue to use those skills to sell our stuff online.
Learning pottery as a new skill is fun, and I really like that it allows me to be creative too.
I wound't recommend switching cold-turkey, cause you may find out your new profession is not for you after much time and energy training.
Test out the waters for awhile in your spare time (lol).
Make friends with others who are already proficient in that field, they may be able to give in-site to help you decide if the life style is for you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897175</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256744160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IT was my second career (moved where I wanted to live and changed focus from engineering).  Now that IT gets less respect than plumbers (and there's much less work as companies seem to think IT is a "cost center" rather than a "your business comes to a paralyzed halt without it"), I've decided to change fields.  One that can't be outsourced by some git looking for a bonus to spend in the Cayman Islands.  I'm applying to get my teaching certificate to teach high school math/physics (oddly, I enjoy being around teens and have a lot of teaching/leadership experience with them).  However, I'm also looking at 'green' jobs (wind, solar, etc) as I live in an area that is investing in those industries heavily.</p><p>The biggest problem I face is age discrimination - which is more and more incredible given the population demographic trends.  Many employers, I've found, don't actually *want* employees who can think and solve problems.  They want little drones that will follow instructions off the cliff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IT was my second career ( moved where I wanted to live and changed focus from engineering ) .
Now that IT gets less respect than plumbers ( and there 's much less work as companies seem to think IT is a " cost center " rather than a " your business comes to a paralyzed halt without it " ) , I 've decided to change fields .
One that ca n't be outsourced by some git looking for a bonus to spend in the Cayman Islands .
I 'm applying to get my teaching certificate to teach high school math/physics ( oddly , I enjoy being around teens and have a lot of teaching/leadership experience with them ) .
However , I 'm also looking at 'green ' jobs ( wind , solar , etc ) as I live in an area that is investing in those industries heavily.The biggest problem I face is age discrimination - which is more and more incredible given the population demographic trends .
Many employers , I 've found , do n't actually * want * employees who can think and solve problems .
They want little drones that will follow instructions off the cliff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT was my second career (moved where I wanted to live and changed focus from engineering).
Now that IT gets less respect than plumbers (and there's much less work as companies seem to think IT is a "cost center" rather than a "your business comes to a paralyzed halt without it"), I've decided to change fields.
One that can't be outsourced by some git looking for a bonus to spend in the Cayman Islands.
I'm applying to get my teaching certificate to teach high school math/physics (oddly, I enjoy being around teens and have a lot of teaching/leadership experience with them).
However, I'm also looking at 'green' jobs (wind, solar, etc) as I live in an area that is investing in those industries heavily.The biggest problem I face is age discrimination - which is more and more incredible given the population demographic trends.
Many employers, I've found, don't actually *want* employees who can think and solve problems.
They want little drones that will follow instructions off the cliff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897931</id>
	<title>I moved away and haven't looked back...</title>
	<author>gsperling</author>
	<datestamp>1256747160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I started professionally in the IT industry back in April of 2000.  I started out by picking up contracts and short-term work.  I was eventually able to land a few full-time positions, and various office politics saw me jumping from company to company for a period of about three years.  In December of 2003, I landed a full-time position with a pretty decent company.  I penned my own job description, built the IT infrastructure basically from the ground up, and ran a very successful IT department.  Then, the parent company started taking over our company, and my position was eliminated due to "re-organization within the department."

Rather than look for another IT job where I would eventually become miserable and have to spend thousands of dollars on new certs and learning new technologies, I decided to go to college full time.  Seeing as how I dropped out of high school, got my GED, and immediately started working back in 1997, not having a college degree was a hindrance for making better than minimum wage in any other industry.

I'm now a full-time student at a 4-year state university, and after I graduate in 2012, I intend to attend law school.  I will become a criminal prosecutor, and have no desires of going back to IT.

However, and with all of that said, since starting college last year, I have worked in an IT capacity for the university and former clients.  It's what I know, what I'm good at, and what pays the bills.  After all, school ain't cheap, and neither is rent.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I started professionally in the IT industry back in April of 2000 .
I started out by picking up contracts and short-term work .
I was eventually able to land a few full-time positions , and various office politics saw me jumping from company to company for a period of about three years .
In December of 2003 , I landed a full-time position with a pretty decent company .
I penned my own job description , built the IT infrastructure basically from the ground up , and ran a very successful IT department .
Then , the parent company started taking over our company , and my position was eliminated due to " re-organization within the department .
" Rather than look for another IT job where I would eventually become miserable and have to spend thousands of dollars on new certs and learning new technologies , I decided to go to college full time .
Seeing as how I dropped out of high school , got my GED , and immediately started working back in 1997 , not having a college degree was a hindrance for making better than minimum wage in any other industry .
I 'm now a full-time student at a 4-year state university , and after I graduate in 2012 , I intend to attend law school .
I will become a criminal prosecutor , and have no desires of going back to IT .
However , and with all of that said , since starting college last year , I have worked in an IT capacity for the university and former clients .
It 's what I know , what I 'm good at , and what pays the bills .
After all , school ai n't cheap , and neither is rent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I started professionally in the IT industry back in April of 2000.
I started out by picking up contracts and short-term work.
I was eventually able to land a few full-time positions, and various office politics saw me jumping from company to company for a period of about three years.
In December of 2003, I landed a full-time position with a pretty decent company.
I penned my own job description, built the IT infrastructure basically from the ground up, and ran a very successful IT department.
Then, the parent company started taking over our company, and my position was eliminated due to "re-organization within the department.
"

Rather than look for another IT job where I would eventually become miserable and have to spend thousands of dollars on new certs and learning new technologies, I decided to go to college full time.
Seeing as how I dropped out of high school, got my GED, and immediately started working back in 1997, not having a college degree was a hindrance for making better than minimum wage in any other industry.
I'm now a full-time student at a 4-year state university, and after I graduate in 2012, I intend to attend law school.
I will become a criminal prosecutor, and have no desires of going back to IT.
However, and with all of that said, since starting college last year, I have worked in an IT capacity for the university and former clients.
It's what I know, what I'm good at, and what pays the bills.
After all, school ain't cheap, and neither is rent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895661</id>
	<title>Re:SciOps</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256737560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I too work in a similar way. I make neutrons in a place toward the south for pure R&amp;D / High Science.<br>Sadly, there is a downfall here, too. You have to make sure the people for whom you are working are not *purely* theoretical folks. There is a group of these people that will blame the the experiments, the people, and everything else in order to prove that their theoretical model is working.  There can be, and often is, a disconnect between math and the real world. This is especially so if you work with very complex systems.</p><p>This can be as bad, or worse, than working for a PHB.  Usually the PHB will go away if you dazzle with fancy words. These guys don't go away.  And then they start to measure things which have errors measured in yards with a micrometer.  After years of work and much pain... they discover (or maybe YOU prove to them) that the model was off.  Then you hear something like: "But I'm sure we accounted for everything!" and this causes friction. This is even more so if you are dealing with a hefty ego.</p><p>In my case, it is a further problem in that we are so HIGHLY regulated that you MUST follow procedure. These type of folk do not believe in following procedure, as they are above any previously written procedure.  I think this gets back to the primadonna portion of the previous point.</p><p>Mind the people for whom you will be working.  In my case a *might* be working for became a working for, and he is just not suited to the position.  Good man, but believes that if he thinks it and models it, it *cannot* be in error.</p><p>Just be aware of the people, and read their papers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I too work in a similar way .
I make neutrons in a place toward the south for pure R&amp;D / High Science.Sadly , there is a downfall here , too .
You have to make sure the people for whom you are working are not * purely * theoretical folks .
There is a group of these people that will blame the the experiments , the people , and everything else in order to prove that their theoretical model is working .
There can be , and often is , a disconnect between math and the real world .
This is especially so if you work with very complex systems.This can be as bad , or worse , than working for a PHB .
Usually the PHB will go away if you dazzle with fancy words .
These guys do n't go away .
And then they start to measure things which have errors measured in yards with a micrometer .
After years of work and much pain... they discover ( or maybe YOU prove to them ) that the model was off .
Then you hear something like : " But I 'm sure we accounted for everything !
" and this causes friction .
This is even more so if you are dealing with a hefty ego.In my case , it is a further problem in that we are so HIGHLY regulated that you MUST follow procedure .
These type of folk do not believe in following procedure , as they are above any previously written procedure .
I think this gets back to the primadonna portion of the previous point.Mind the people for whom you will be working .
In my case a * might * be working for became a working for , and he is just not suited to the position .
Good man , but believes that if he thinks it and models it , it * can not * be in error.Just be aware of the people , and read their papers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I too work in a similar way.
I make neutrons in a place toward the south for pure R&amp;D / High Science.Sadly, there is a downfall here, too.
You have to make sure the people for whom you are working are not *purely* theoretical folks.
There is a group of these people that will blame the the experiments, the people, and everything else in order to prove that their theoretical model is working.
There can be, and often is, a disconnect between math and the real world.
This is especially so if you work with very complex systems.This can be as bad, or worse, than working for a PHB.
Usually the PHB will go away if you dazzle with fancy words.
These guys don't go away.
And then they start to measure things which have errors measured in yards with a micrometer.
After years of work and much pain... they discover (or maybe YOU prove to them) that the model was off.
Then you hear something like: "But I'm sure we accounted for everything!
" and this causes friction.
This is even more so if you are dealing with a hefty ego.In my case, it is a further problem in that we are so HIGHLY regulated that you MUST follow procedure.
These type of folk do not believe in following procedure, as they are above any previously written procedure.
I think this gets back to the primadonna portion of the previous point.Mind the people for whom you will be working.
In my case a *might* be working for became a working for, and he is just not suited to the position.
Good man, but believes that if he thinks it and models it, it *cannot* be in error.Just be aware of the people, and read their papers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893771</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29910839</id>
	<title>Re:SciOps</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256833080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was a programmer for 8 years, making relative bank (~100K), but constantly felt like it was leeching away my soul. The problem is that I love programming, just not for ungrateful users and incompetent managers. I started taking classes to prepare for a graduate bioinformatics degree. My undergraduate record was good but not great, but I kicked ass in the science classes I took post graduate. Now I'm at UNC and loving it. The problems in genetics are fascinating, and it's eye-opening to see how needed people like you and I are in this field. The amount of data generated by new technologies like Illumina sequencing is staggering. The scientists have great ideas for what to do with it, but they're incapable. I, on the other hand, love these kinds of problems, and I'm quickly learning the science behind it. If you have any interest at all in science, I highly recommend this route. The money right now is crappy (I make $26K and my tuition is covered), but I've discovered that I don't really need that much to live on. And $26K goes far in North Carolina. I just bought a new car, and I share a nice apartment with my girlfriend. As a postdoc, I'll make closer to $40-50K, and after that who knows. Bioinformatics PhDs in industry make bank, academics make less but have more flexibility and the promise of tenure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was a programmer for 8 years , making relative bank ( ~ 100K ) , but constantly felt like it was leeching away my soul .
The problem is that I love programming , just not for ungrateful users and incompetent managers .
I started taking classes to prepare for a graduate bioinformatics degree .
My undergraduate record was good but not great , but I kicked ass in the science classes I took post graduate .
Now I 'm at UNC and loving it .
The problems in genetics are fascinating , and it 's eye-opening to see how needed people like you and I are in this field .
The amount of data generated by new technologies like Illumina sequencing is staggering .
The scientists have great ideas for what to do with it , but they 're incapable .
I , on the other hand , love these kinds of problems , and I 'm quickly learning the science behind it .
If you have any interest at all in science , I highly recommend this route .
The money right now is crappy ( I make $ 26K and my tuition is covered ) , but I 've discovered that I do n't really need that much to live on .
And $ 26K goes far in North Carolina .
I just bought a new car , and I share a nice apartment with my girlfriend .
As a postdoc , I 'll make closer to $ 40-50K , and after that who knows .
Bioinformatics PhDs in industry make bank , academics make less but have more flexibility and the promise of tenure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was a programmer for 8 years, making relative bank (~100K), but constantly felt like it was leeching away my soul.
The problem is that I love programming, just not for ungrateful users and incompetent managers.
I started taking classes to prepare for a graduate bioinformatics degree.
My undergraduate record was good but not great, but I kicked ass in the science classes I took post graduate.
Now I'm at UNC and loving it.
The problems in genetics are fascinating, and it's eye-opening to see how needed people like you and I are in this field.
The amount of data generated by new technologies like Illumina sequencing is staggering.
The scientists have great ideas for what to do with it, but they're incapable.
I, on the other hand, love these kinds of problems, and I'm quickly learning the science behind it.
If you have any interest at all in science, I highly recommend this route.
The money right now is crappy (I make $26K and my tuition is covered), but I've discovered that I don't really need that much to live on.
And $26K goes far in North Carolina.
I just bought a new car, and I share a nice apartment with my girlfriend.
As a postdoc, I'll make closer to $40-50K, and after that who knows.
Bioinformatics PhDs in industry make bank, academics make less but have more flexibility and the promise of tenure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893771</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896185</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>that IT girl</author>
	<datestamp>1256740380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can attest to this here in the US as well--one of my customers is (was) a company with union workers, and it is directly responsible for that company going bankrupt. Nice going, union, instead of helping your workers, you put them in the unemployment line. Taking a pay cut + making sacrifices during economic downturns like any other responsible citizen &gt; no job at all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can attest to this here in the US as well--one of my customers is ( was ) a company with union workers , and it is directly responsible for that company going bankrupt .
Nice going , union , instead of helping your workers , you put them in the unemployment line .
Taking a pay cut + making sacrifices during economic downturns like any other responsible citizen &gt; no job at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can attest to this here in the US as well--one of my customers is (was) a company with union workers, and it is directly responsible for that company going bankrupt.
Nice going, union, instead of helping your workers, you put them in the unemployment line.
Taking a pay cut + making sacrifices during economic downturns like any other responsible citizen &gt; no job at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900539</id>
	<title>Re:Allow me to summarize</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1256757900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you actually do have skills in the field?  Theres not a lot to hate compared to other jobs.</p><p>When you really aren't qualified to do the job, yes it sucks.  So does every other job on the planet you aren't qualified to do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you actually do have skills in the field ?
Theres not a lot to hate compared to other jobs.When you really are n't qualified to do the job , yes it sucks .
So does every other job on the planet you are n't qualified to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you actually do have skills in the field?
Theres not a lot to hate compared to other jobs.When you really aren't qualified to do the job, yes it sucks.
So does every other job on the planet you aren't qualified to do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29907005</id>
	<title>Re:Family?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256755680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't get a job working for someone else man, why not think about taking on a qualified partner or someone you work with so when your busy they can take over and you can do the same for them?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't get a job working for someone else man , why not think about taking on a qualified partner or someone you work with so when your busy they can take over and you can do the same for them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't get a job working for someone else man, why not think about taking on a qualified partner or someone you work with so when your busy they can take over and you can do the same for them?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893755</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893683</id>
	<title>I've gone cold turkey, but...</title>
	<author>blind biker</author>
	<datestamp>1256670900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had to do a couple of years in college to redirect my skillset for my new life as a nanoscientist.</p><p>It's the best thing I've ever done in my life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had to do a couple of years in college to redirect my skillset for my new life as a nanoscientist.It 's the best thing I 've ever done in my life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had to do a couple of years in college to redirect my skillset for my new life as a nanoscientist.It's the best thing I've ever done in my life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893757</id>
	<title>Go law and enjoy life</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256671800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IT was good field, but it was like coal mining or automotive work, where sysadmins are a fungible resource.  Want to find a career that you work banker's hours and get twice the pay?  Take the LSAT, and get yourself to a law school.  For an IT person who generally smart in general, after finishing up law school, the bar exam won't be a problem.</p><p>Now, bar membership in hand, you work 1/2 to 1/4 as many hours, work 8-5, and can *never* be unemployed unless you do something stupid and get disbarred.  Not every business needs an IT pro.  However, every business out there needs an attorney.  No, you might not end up as a senior partner of Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe, but law ensures that you will always be able to provide for your family, have a decent car, enjoy real vacations, and sock away savings for retirement.</p><p>So, leave the IT stuff for the CV, take law, pass the bar, and actually enjoy life from other than a wage slave perspective.  You can always drive by and smirk at your rivals in the IT field in your new BMW 7 series while they are still driving their Kias that they bought before the crash in 2000.  An entry level attorney fresh out of a credible law school is guaranteed $75,000 a year, $100,000 if in the bay area.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IT was good field , but it was like coal mining or automotive work , where sysadmins are a fungible resource .
Want to find a career that you work banker 's hours and get twice the pay ?
Take the LSAT , and get yourself to a law school .
For an IT person who generally smart in general , after finishing up law school , the bar exam wo n't be a problem.Now , bar membership in hand , you work 1/2 to 1/4 as many hours , work 8-5 , and can * never * be unemployed unless you do something stupid and get disbarred .
Not every business needs an IT pro .
However , every business out there needs an attorney .
No , you might not end up as a senior partner of Dewey , Cheatem , and Howe , but law ensures that you will always be able to provide for your family , have a decent car , enjoy real vacations , and sock away savings for retirement.So , leave the IT stuff for the CV , take law , pass the bar , and actually enjoy life from other than a wage slave perspective .
You can always drive by and smirk at your rivals in the IT field in your new BMW 7 series while they are still driving their Kias that they bought before the crash in 2000 .
An entry level attorney fresh out of a credible law school is guaranteed $ 75,000 a year , $ 100,000 if in the bay area .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT was good field, but it was like coal mining or automotive work, where sysadmins are a fungible resource.
Want to find a career that you work banker's hours and get twice the pay?
Take the LSAT, and get yourself to a law school.
For an IT person who generally smart in general, after finishing up law school, the bar exam won't be a problem.Now, bar membership in hand, you work 1/2 to 1/4 as many hours, work 8-5, and can *never* be unemployed unless you do something stupid and get disbarred.
Not every business needs an IT pro.
However, every business out there needs an attorney.
No, you might not end up as a senior partner of Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe, but law ensures that you will always be able to provide for your family, have a decent car, enjoy real vacations, and sock away savings for retirement.So, leave the IT stuff for the CV, take law, pass the bar, and actually enjoy life from other than a wage slave perspective.
You can always drive by and smirk at your rivals in the IT field in your new BMW 7 series while they are still driving their Kias that they bought before the crash in 2000.
An entry level attorney fresh out of a credible law school is guaranteed $75,000 a year, $100,000 if in the bay area.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895989</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>cellurl</author>
	<datestamp>1256739360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>put up a picture/link of your shop.<br> <br>

<a href="http://www.wikispeedia.org/" title="wikispeedia.org" rel="nofollow">Donate time, not money</a> [wikispeedia.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>put up a picture/link of your shop .
Donate time , not money [ wikispeedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>put up a picture/link of your shop.
Donate time, not money [wikispeedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893785</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893533</id>
	<title>Bean Sprout Farming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256668980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously. You can start with one bag of seed and a few plastic buckets and sell to local businesses (especially organic businesses and asian stores since they sell larger quantities) and scale up from there. Inventory isn't a huge problem since it only takes 72 hours to grow the sprouts, and you can buy the seed by the 25kg bag.
</p><p>
Obviously, I'm simplifying things, but honestly it's a business that's incredibly easy to get into, resistant to non-local competition due to the perishability of the sprouts, and if you can 'get it right', you can definitely market on quality</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously .
You can start with one bag of seed and a few plastic buckets and sell to local businesses ( especially organic businesses and asian stores since they sell larger quantities ) and scale up from there .
Inventory is n't a huge problem since it only takes 72 hours to grow the sprouts , and you can buy the seed by the 25kg bag .
Obviously , I 'm simplifying things , but honestly it 's a business that 's incredibly easy to get into , resistant to non-local competition due to the perishability of the sprouts , and if you can 'get it right ' , you can definitely market on quality</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously.
You can start with one bag of seed and a few plastic buckets and sell to local businesses (especially organic businesses and asian stores since they sell larger quantities) and scale up from there.
Inventory isn't a huge problem since it only takes 72 hours to grow the sprouts, and you can buy the seed by the 25kg bag.
Obviously, I'm simplifying things, but honestly it's a business that's incredibly easy to get into, resistant to non-local competition due to the perishability of the sprouts, and if you can 'get it right', you can definitely market on quality</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29957378</id>
	<title>8 more months until I'm a Doctor.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257168420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Over 5 years ago I quit IT as 3rd line NT &amp; Solaris server admin.  Begin a student again is difficult with family considerations, but I had always wanted to become a doctor and decided to give it a shot.  Luckily I was accepted as a mature age student (32y) and in only a few short months I shall graduate (hopefully) with the M.D. degree (no more white coats - infection risk.)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-(</p><p>To anyone who wants to persue a dream.  Get off your butt, prepare and just do it.  You will always find a way to take care of the basics (food / shelter / clothing). Sorry if it sounds a bit harsh but sometimes it just needs to be said.  You only have 1 life so go out and live it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Over 5 years ago I quit IT as 3rd line NT &amp; Solaris server admin .
Begin a student again is difficult with family considerations , but I had always wanted to become a doctor and decided to give it a shot .
Luckily I was accepted as a mature age student ( 32y ) and in only a few short months I shall graduate ( hopefully ) with the M.D .
degree ( no more white coats - infection risk .
) : - ( To anyone who wants to persue a dream .
Get off your butt , prepare and just do it .
You will always find a way to take care of the basics ( food / shelter / clothing ) .
Sorry if it sounds a bit harsh but sometimes it just needs to be said .
You only have 1 life so go out and live it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Over 5 years ago I quit IT as 3rd line NT &amp; Solaris server admin.
Begin a student again is difficult with family considerations, but I had always wanted to become a doctor and decided to give it a shot.
Luckily I was accepted as a mature age student (32y) and in only a few short months I shall graduate (hopefully) with the M.D.
degree (no more white coats - infection risk.
) :-(To anyone who wants to persue a dream.
Get off your butt, prepare and just do it.
You will always find a way to take care of the basics (food / shelter / clothing).
Sorry if it sounds a bit harsh but sometimes it just needs to be said.
You only have 1 life so go out and live it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897167</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>kd5zex</author>
	<datestamp>1256744160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was on a job in Western Australia back in '06 - '07 and was offered several electrician jobs with offers ranging from 100K - 140K AUD per year.  The work I was offered was a"fly-in, fly-out" affair usually 2-3 weeks on site then 2-3 weeks at home.</p><p>Granted it was really hot and the work was in remote locations it would be well suited for a qualified person without any obligations at home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was on a job in Western Australia back in '06 - '07 and was offered several electrician jobs with offers ranging from 100K - 140K AUD per year .
The work I was offered was a " fly-in , fly-out " affair usually 2-3 weeks on site then 2-3 weeks at home.Granted it was really hot and the work was in remote locations it would be well suited for a qualified person without any obligations at home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was on a job in Western Australia back in '06 - '07 and was offered several electrician jobs with offers ranging from 100K - 140K AUD per year.
The work I was offered was a"fly-in, fly-out" affair usually 2-3 weeks on site then 2-3 weeks at home.Granted it was really hot and the work was in remote locations it would be well suited for a qualified person without any obligations at home.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893513</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900849</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256759220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're forgetting that we have never been in an actual free market economy here in the US, not at least for the past 60 years.  Mo' government mo government mo government.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're forgetting that we have never been in an actual free market economy here in the US , not at least for the past 60 years .
Mo ' government mo government mo government .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're forgetting that we have never been in an actual free market economy here in the US, not at least for the past 60 years.
Mo' government mo government mo government.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895255</id>
	<title>Next Career = Alcohol!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256734080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Once I've had enough of the IT world (any day now....) my next move will be into the fine world of making beer.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Once I 've had enough of the IT world ( any day now.... ) my next move will be into the fine world of making beer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once I've had enough of the IT world (any day now....) my next move will be into the fine world of making beer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895451</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>LinuxAndLube</author>
	<datestamp>1256735820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We'll be programming the zombies. No electricity needed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We 'll be programming the zombies .
No electricity needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We'll be programming the zombies.
No electricity needed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900719</id>
	<title>Re:Take a break first.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256758680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was able to take a 2-month unpaid leave from my FT job earlier this year. During that time, I worked on a project for another company building a few Android applications, and a server behind the curtain to power them. I had total creative latitude in how to build the app, I worked from home, used tools/equipment of my own choosing, got paid well to do it, and got the project done early and under budget. Working in that way was something I had wanted to do for 15 years. It was great, and I found it almost unbearable to go back to my regular job (government contract work, boring as all hell).</p><p>I learned some interesting things doing this: For one, I know I REALLY want to do something like that again. Even though I was working hard the whole time, it was a rejuvenating experience (amazing how working on something creative totally energizes you). For two, a multiplicity of small clients is better than just one (working corp-to-corp with a single external entity is just a full-time job without benefits). Pretty obvious now, but it wasn't to me 3 months ago.</p><p>If you can get your employer to agree to such a thing, I highly recommend it. For my part, I'm planning to pay my house off in the next 3-4 months, then I'm going to pursue projects like this exclusively for awhile, while I figure out what I want to do when I grow up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was able to take a 2-month unpaid leave from my FT job earlier this year .
During that time , I worked on a project for another company building a few Android applications , and a server behind the curtain to power them .
I had total creative latitude in how to build the app , I worked from home , used tools/equipment of my own choosing , got paid well to do it , and got the project done early and under budget .
Working in that way was something I had wanted to do for 15 years .
It was great , and I found it almost unbearable to go back to my regular job ( government contract work , boring as all hell ) .I learned some interesting things doing this : For one , I know I REALLY want to do something like that again .
Even though I was working hard the whole time , it was a rejuvenating experience ( amazing how working on something creative totally energizes you ) .
For two , a multiplicity of small clients is better than just one ( working corp-to-corp with a single external entity is just a full-time job without benefits ) .
Pretty obvious now , but it was n't to me 3 months ago.If you can get your employer to agree to such a thing , I highly recommend it .
For my part , I 'm planning to pay my house off in the next 3-4 months , then I 'm going to pursue projects like this exclusively for awhile , while I figure out what I want to do when I grow up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was able to take a 2-month unpaid leave from my FT job earlier this year.
During that time, I worked on a project for another company building a few Android applications, and a server behind the curtain to power them.
I had total creative latitude in how to build the app, I worked from home, used tools/equipment of my own choosing, got paid well to do it, and got the project done early and under budget.
Working in that way was something I had wanted to do for 15 years.
It was great, and I found it almost unbearable to go back to my regular job (government contract work, boring as all hell).I learned some interesting things doing this: For one, I know I REALLY want to do something like that again.
Even though I was working hard the whole time, it was a rejuvenating experience (amazing how working on something creative totally energizes you).
For two, a multiplicity of small clients is better than just one (working corp-to-corp with a single external entity is just a full-time job without benefits).
Pretty obvious now, but it wasn't to me 3 months ago.If you can get your employer to agree to such a thing, I highly recommend it.
For my part, I'm planning to pay my house off in the next 3-4 months, then I'm going to pursue projects like this exclusively for awhile, while I figure out what I want to do when I grow up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897037</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256743620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I say this as a slowly-recovering right-libertarian (and developer) myself, turned moderate left-libertarian.</p></div></blockquote><p>I wonder how many of us there are? I saw the light back around '02.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I say this as a slowly-recovering right-libertarian ( and developer ) myself , turned moderate left-libertarian.I wonder how many of us there are ?
I saw the light back around '02 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I say this as a slowly-recovering right-libertarian (and developer) myself, turned moderate left-libertarian.I wonder how many of us there are?
I saw the light back around '02.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897473</id>
	<title>Re:Very timely...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256745360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Time off sounds like a great idea... but it would require me to also take a break from eating and sleeping indoors to say nothing of reading<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/., so I think I'm going to have to pass on that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Time off sounds like a great idea... but it would require me to also take a break from eating and sleeping indoors to say nothing of reading /. , so I think I 'm going to have to pass on that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Time off sounds like a great idea... but it would require me to also take a break from eating and sleeping indoors to say nothing of reading /., so I think I'm going to have to pass on that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893831</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>CarpetShark</author>
	<datestamp>1256672520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>you might want to think about nursing.</p></div></blockquote><p>You've obviously never been treated by a nurse who was in the job for the wrong reasons.  Please don't ever SUGGEST nursing to people, unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others even on their worst days.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>you might want to think about nursing.You 've obviously never been treated by a nurse who was in the job for the wrong reasons .
Please do n't ever SUGGEST nursing to people , unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion , patience , and willingness to help others even on their worst days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you might want to think about nursing.You've obviously never been treated by a nurse who was in the job for the wrong reasons.
Please don't ever SUGGEST nursing to people, unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others even on their worst days.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893881</id>
	<title>Just find something else.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256673420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I originally left IT in 2003 to go into Retail Management which lasted two years, then landed me back into IT. In that time I was able to finish my bachelors and master degree and make a decent living now. I went from Microsoft based solutions to completely open source. Which in my opinion has made my job stability situation better, since not many people can work with a complete CLI environment. I help my company run complex data center solutions, and even though the hours suck and not getting a raise for the last three years really blows. I have decided to get another Master degree in health care management and just say so long IT. The whole reason I got into IT was because of the tech toys and because I really enjoy innovating new solutions. But as you said, the disrespect and the pay cuts are getting a little bit much, I went from 85k a year to 23k for the same job, then back to 60k after 6 years, what type of career does that crap. I made 50k in retail management, and I only worked 45 hours a week. My advise to you is just find something you enjoy and don't look back..., don't pull the same mistake I made and try to return, it not worth it, you can make more with another career and not end up spending 20\% of your income trying to stay on top of your skills. Companies just expect too much, and no compensation for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I originally left IT in 2003 to go into Retail Management which lasted two years , then landed me back into IT .
In that time I was able to finish my bachelors and master degree and make a decent living now .
I went from Microsoft based solutions to completely open source .
Which in my opinion has made my job stability situation better , since not many people can work with a complete CLI environment .
I help my company run complex data center solutions , and even though the hours suck and not getting a raise for the last three years really blows .
I have decided to get another Master degree in health care management and just say so long IT .
The whole reason I got into IT was because of the tech toys and because I really enjoy innovating new solutions .
But as you said , the disrespect and the pay cuts are getting a little bit much , I went from 85k a year to 23k for the same job , then back to 60k after 6 years , what type of career does that crap .
I made 50k in retail management , and I only worked 45 hours a week .
My advise to you is just find something you enjoy and do n't look back... , do n't pull the same mistake I made and try to return , it not worth it , you can make more with another career and not end up spending 20 \ % of your income trying to stay on top of your skills .
Companies just expect too much , and no compensation for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I originally left IT in 2003 to go into Retail Management which lasted two years, then landed me back into IT.
In that time I was able to finish my bachelors and master degree and make a decent living now.
I went from Microsoft based solutions to completely open source.
Which in my opinion has made my job stability situation better, since not many people can work with a complete CLI environment.
I help my company run complex data center solutions, and even though the hours suck and not getting a raise for the last three years really blows.
I have decided to get another Master degree in health care management and just say so long IT.
The whole reason I got into IT was because of the tech toys and because I really enjoy innovating new solutions.
But as you said, the disrespect and the pay cuts are getting a little bit much, I went from 85k a year to 23k for the same job, then back to 60k after 6 years, what type of career does that crap.
I made 50k in retail management, and I only worked 45 hours a week.
My advise to you is just find something you enjoy and don't look back..., don't pull the same mistake I made and try to return, it not worth it, you can make more with another career and not end up spending 20\% of your income trying to stay on top of your skills.
Companies just expect too much, and no compensation for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895343</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>mrscorpio</author>
	<datestamp>1256734800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your example is very poor. Greenspan may have started out an Austrian Economics Rand fan, but his policies were those of a run-of-the-mill Keynesian Krugman fan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your example is very poor .
Greenspan may have started out an Austrian Economics Rand fan , but his policies were those of a run-of-the-mill Keynesian Krugman fan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your example is very poor.
Greenspan may have started out an Austrian Economics Rand fan, but his policies were those of a run-of-the-mill Keynesian Krugman fan.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29906195</id>
	<title>You won't regret it!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256747220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had previously worked in IT for over 12 years... the last decade with the phone company.<br>I resigned in May 2009 to re-pursue something I gave up to enter IT, Music.<br>I am now out of IT completely, and enjoying being a professional musician again.</p><p>I don't miss the shenanigans of the phone company, or the massive piles of excrement, once called management initatives.<br>While the pay was nice<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... nobody's called me (or paged) since, and I love it!<br>I don't run a home laboratory now, and the extra electricity is being happily used by others, I'm sure.</p><p>the phone company, can eat my shorts!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had previously worked in IT for over 12 years... the last decade with the phone company.I resigned in May 2009 to re-pursue something I gave up to enter IT , Music.I am now out of IT completely , and enjoying being a professional musician again.I do n't miss the shenanigans of the phone company , or the massive piles of excrement , once called management initatives.While the pay was nice ... nobody 's called me ( or paged ) since , and I love it ! I do n't run a home laboratory now , and the extra electricity is being happily used by others , I 'm sure.the phone company , can eat my shorts !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had previously worked in IT for over 12 years... the last decade with the phone company.I resigned in May 2009 to re-pursue something I gave up to enter IT, Music.I am now out of IT completely, and enjoying being a professional musician again.I don't miss the shenanigans of the phone company, or the massive piles of excrement, once called management initatives.While the pay was nice ... nobody's called me (or paged) since, and I love it!I don't run a home laboratory now, and the extra electricity is being happily used by others, I'm sure.the phone company, can eat my shorts!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896483</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>jimbob666</author>
	<datestamp>1256741460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What local authorities pay that? I work in IT at a local authority and the basic IT Technician wage on our helpdesk is ~&pound;16k.

Not even second line IT Technicans get close to the &pound;29k figure you mention.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What local authorities pay that ?
I work in IT at a local authority and the basic IT Technician wage on our helpdesk is ~   16k .
Not even second line IT Technicans get close to the   29k figure you mention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What local authorities pay that?
I work in IT at a local authority and the basic IT Technician wage on our helpdesk is ~£16k.
Not even second line IT Technicans get close to the £29k figure you mention.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898537</id>
	<title>re: opening one's own business</title>
	<author>King\_TJ</author>
	<datestamp>1256749740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Truthfully, I think this is the smartest route for a lot of us I.T. types to pursue, as the economy remains this sour.</p><p>I'm (thankfully) still employed in corporate I.T. - but our entire company is hanging on by a thread.  (We're in steel manufacturing and our sales are tied directly to new home and commercial construction, which isn't going to exactly be "booming" for quite some time.)  When you add to that the fact that the owner was really due to retire a couple years ago, and it appears nobody else has the financial means or interest to take over when he does retire -- it means my chance of having a future here are slim, looking a year or two into the future.</p><p>I've had a small side business I kept going, doing on-site PC service and consulting work.  Basically, that means I offer anything from assistance setting up a basic web site for someone's small business to cleaning spyware off their PC, to doing the research and leg-work to get someone the perfect new notebook computer for their needs.  Just last week, I got a doctor's office out of a pinch when their front office computer's motherboard died (in an eMachines tower).  They tried a big-box retailer for assistance first, but of course, was informed they'd have to buy a whole new computer first, and then pay hundreds for a tech to transfer all their data off the old PC and onto the new one, AND it would take at least a week to get it finished.  (I was able to go in, pick up the broken machine, swap the hard drive into a used Pentium 4 clone mini-tower I had lying around, get Windows XP to work with the different hardware, and return it to them by the next business day - all for a total cost of around $300.  Other than the cost of gas for the 2 trips, it was all profit to me since I was getting rid of a clone I got free when I helped a different customer upgrade their old PC to a new one.)  Customer was delighted and is now referring me to others.</p><p>I've never had to spend anything on advertising, besides about $40 in stamps and paper to send out some letters to strategic people and businesses, when I first started, to let them know I existed.  Every regular customer I've gotten has been through word of mouth and referrals.  I have no cost for a physical office either, since I go to them.  I like keeping it a small, side thing for now -- but if my day job dies off, I think I'm going to gamble on growing it into a full-time business.  The era of the "mom and pop computer store" really took a beating and almost died in the 90's with all the mega chain stores and cut-rate pricing on new PCs from giants like Dell and HP.  But there's still a void to be filled in the area of providing good SERVICE at a price low enough so it makes sense to do the repairs vs. just buying new and starting over from scratch.  This is where the big guys CAN'T compete - because they want each broken PC to result in a NEW computer sale!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Truthfully , I think this is the smartest route for a lot of us I.T .
types to pursue , as the economy remains this sour.I 'm ( thankfully ) still employed in corporate I.T .
- but our entire company is hanging on by a thread .
( We 're in steel manufacturing and our sales are tied directly to new home and commercial construction , which is n't going to exactly be " booming " for quite some time .
) When you add to that the fact that the owner was really due to retire a couple years ago , and it appears nobody else has the financial means or interest to take over when he does retire -- it means my chance of having a future here are slim , looking a year or two into the future.I 've had a small side business I kept going , doing on-site PC service and consulting work .
Basically , that means I offer anything from assistance setting up a basic web site for someone 's small business to cleaning spyware off their PC , to doing the research and leg-work to get someone the perfect new notebook computer for their needs .
Just last week , I got a doctor 's office out of a pinch when their front office computer 's motherboard died ( in an eMachines tower ) .
They tried a big-box retailer for assistance first , but of course , was informed they 'd have to buy a whole new computer first , and then pay hundreds for a tech to transfer all their data off the old PC and onto the new one , AND it would take at least a week to get it finished .
( I was able to go in , pick up the broken machine , swap the hard drive into a used Pentium 4 clone mini-tower I had lying around , get Windows XP to work with the different hardware , and return it to them by the next business day - all for a total cost of around $ 300 .
Other than the cost of gas for the 2 trips , it was all profit to me since I was getting rid of a clone I got free when I helped a different customer upgrade their old PC to a new one .
) Customer was delighted and is now referring me to others.I 've never had to spend anything on advertising , besides about $ 40 in stamps and paper to send out some letters to strategic people and businesses , when I first started , to let them know I existed .
Every regular customer I 've gotten has been through word of mouth and referrals .
I have no cost for a physical office either , since I go to them .
I like keeping it a small , side thing for now -- but if my day job dies off , I think I 'm going to gamble on growing it into a full-time business .
The era of the " mom and pop computer store " really took a beating and almost died in the 90 's with all the mega chain stores and cut-rate pricing on new PCs from giants like Dell and HP .
But there 's still a void to be filled in the area of providing good SERVICE at a price low enough so it makes sense to do the repairs vs. just buying new and starting over from scratch .
This is where the big guys CA N'T compete - because they want each broken PC to result in a NEW computer sale !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Truthfully, I think this is the smartest route for a lot of us I.T.
types to pursue, as the economy remains this sour.I'm (thankfully) still employed in corporate I.T.
- but our entire company is hanging on by a thread.
(We're in steel manufacturing and our sales are tied directly to new home and commercial construction, which isn't going to exactly be "booming" for quite some time.
)  When you add to that the fact that the owner was really due to retire a couple years ago, and it appears nobody else has the financial means or interest to take over when he does retire -- it means my chance of having a future here are slim, looking a year or two into the future.I've had a small side business I kept going, doing on-site PC service and consulting work.
Basically, that means I offer anything from assistance setting up a basic web site for someone's small business to cleaning spyware off their PC, to doing the research and leg-work to get someone the perfect new notebook computer for their needs.
Just last week, I got a doctor's office out of a pinch when their front office computer's motherboard died (in an eMachines tower).
They tried a big-box retailer for assistance first, but of course, was informed they'd have to buy a whole new computer first, and then pay hundreds for a tech to transfer all their data off the old PC and onto the new one, AND it would take at least a week to get it finished.
(I was able to go in, pick up the broken machine, swap the hard drive into a used Pentium 4 clone mini-tower I had lying around, get Windows XP to work with the different hardware, and return it to them by the next business day - all for a total cost of around $300.
Other than the cost of gas for the 2 trips, it was all profit to me since I was getting rid of a clone I got free when I helped a different customer upgrade their old PC to a new one.
)  Customer was delighted and is now referring me to others.I've never had to spend anything on advertising, besides about $40 in stamps and paper to send out some letters to strategic people and businesses, when I first started, to let them know I existed.
Every regular customer I've gotten has been through word of mouth and referrals.
I have no cost for a physical office either, since I go to them.
I like keeping it a small, side thing for now -- but if my day job dies off, I think I'm going to gamble on growing it into a full-time business.
The era of the "mom and pop computer store" really took a beating and almost died in the 90's with all the mega chain stores and cut-rate pricing on new PCs from giants like Dell and HP.
But there's still a void to be filled in the area of providing good SERVICE at a price low enough so it makes sense to do the repairs vs. just buying new and starting over from scratch.
This is where the big guys CAN'T compete - because they want each broken PC to result in a NEW computer sale!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893785</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893947</id>
	<title>In a similar, but stranger situation...</title>
	<author>Talisman</author>
	<datestamp>1256760600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I no longer love IT work.  I've been at it for 14 years now, and the shine is definitely off the apple.  That being said, I don't hate it.  It's not fulfilling anymore, but I don't dread going to work, either.</p><p>My current job allows me to travel a minimum of 8 months per year, often 10 or more, with long stretches at the work site, so it really is enjoyable travel, not the land-getjobdone-boardplane-flytonextjobsite travel that makes for a miserable experience versus a very enjoyable one.</p><p>So while I love the framework my job is in, I no longer love the job itself.  It's a peculiar place to be, since it's easy to leave miserable situations, but much harder to leave pretty good situations, even though the next stop might be fantastic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I no longer love IT work .
I 've been at it for 14 years now , and the shine is definitely off the apple .
That being said , I do n't hate it .
It 's not fulfilling anymore , but I do n't dread going to work , either.My current job allows me to travel a minimum of 8 months per year , often 10 or more , with long stretches at the work site , so it really is enjoyable travel , not the land-getjobdone-boardplane-flytonextjobsite travel that makes for a miserable experience versus a very enjoyable one.So while I love the framework my job is in , I no longer love the job itself .
It 's a peculiar place to be , since it 's easy to leave miserable situations , but much harder to leave pretty good situations , even though the next stop might be fantastic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I no longer love IT work.
I've been at it for 14 years now, and the shine is definitely off the apple.
That being said, I don't hate it.
It's not fulfilling anymore, but I don't dread going to work, either.My current job allows me to travel a minimum of 8 months per year, often 10 or more, with long stretches at the work site, so it really is enjoyable travel, not the land-getjobdone-boardplane-flytonextjobsite travel that makes for a miserable experience versus a very enjoyable one.So while I love the framework my job is in, I no longer love the job itself.
It's a peculiar place to be, since it's easy to leave miserable situations, but much harder to leave pretty good situations, even though the next stop might be fantastic.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893773</id>
	<title>Getting old in IT is the kiss of death.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256671920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>How is it that our field is the only one where the older you get, the more worthless you are perceived as being?</b>
<br>
Everyone remembers an encounter with an old mainframe or similar tech guy showing up to install a T1 line or similar.
<br> all those years and he winds up punching wires for the last four years to make it to retirement.
<br> <br>
I'd rather cross the street to another career and enjoy the respect and admiration of my peers than endure the snickering of
<br> freshly minted paper certified system admins behind my back.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How is it that our field is the only one where the older you get , the more worthless you are perceived as being ?
Everyone remembers an encounter with an old mainframe or similar tech guy showing up to install a T1 line or similar .
all those years and he winds up punching wires for the last four years to make it to retirement .
I 'd rather cross the street to another career and enjoy the respect and admiration of my peers than endure the snickering of freshly minted paper certified system admins behind my back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is it that our field is the only one where the older you get, the more worthless you are perceived as being?
Everyone remembers an encounter with an old mainframe or similar tech guy showing up to install a T1 line or similar.
all those years and he winds up punching wires for the last four years to make it to retirement.
I'd rather cross the street to another career and enjoy the respect and admiration of my peers than endure the snickering of
 freshly minted paper certified system admins behind my back.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893643</id>
	<title>Lateral moves are sometimes the way to go</title>
	<author>kashani</author>
	<datestamp>1256670300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I tend to get bored if I stay in the same job too long. Also cash, promotions, and respect are easier to come by when you switch companies. Sad, but true. My progression has been tech support, NOC, Network Engineer, Windows Admin, Network Eng/Sys Admin, Sys Admin/DBA/Network/Developer/IT guy, Application Operations, and finally head Application Engineer which is mostly capacity planning, architecture review, project management, and trying to catch issues before they take the service down. Most of what you learn at one job can be applied at another job. At the very least you'll be that Sys Admin that actually understands routing or the DBA that doesn't blame the network first.</p><p>None of the moving around has retarded my career and I'm somewhat sought after these days because I'm a generalist with a 14 years of experience as well as workign at five startups. Moving around like that might not work for everyone, but I recommend it if you're bored to tears with your current bailiwick and actually like the IT field overall.</p><p>kashani</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tend to get bored if I stay in the same job too long .
Also cash , promotions , and respect are easier to come by when you switch companies .
Sad , but true .
My progression has been tech support , NOC , Network Engineer , Windows Admin , Network Eng/Sys Admin , Sys Admin/DBA/Network/Developer/IT guy , Application Operations , and finally head Application Engineer which is mostly capacity planning , architecture review , project management , and trying to catch issues before they take the service down .
Most of what you learn at one job can be applied at another job .
At the very least you 'll be that Sys Admin that actually understands routing or the DBA that does n't blame the network first.None of the moving around has retarded my career and I 'm somewhat sought after these days because I 'm a generalist with a 14 years of experience as well as workign at five startups .
Moving around like that might not work for everyone , but I recommend it if you 're bored to tears with your current bailiwick and actually like the IT field overall.kashani</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tend to get bored if I stay in the same job too long.
Also cash, promotions, and respect are easier to come by when you switch companies.
Sad, but true.
My progression has been tech support, NOC, Network Engineer, Windows Admin, Network Eng/Sys Admin, Sys Admin/DBA/Network/Developer/IT guy, Application Operations, and finally head Application Engineer which is mostly capacity planning, architecture review, project management, and trying to catch issues before they take the service down.
Most of what you learn at one job can be applied at another job.
At the very least you'll be that Sys Admin that actually understands routing or the DBA that doesn't blame the network first.None of the moving around has retarded my career and I'm somewhat sought after these days because I'm a generalist with a 14 years of experience as well as workign at five startups.
Moving around like that might not work for everyone, but I recommend it if you're bored to tears with your current bailiwick and actually like the IT field overall.kashani</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897053</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256743680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Very true. I was a cop in the Air Force for eight long years. Absolutely hated being a cop, but loved the military. Nice structure. Anyways, I would take my angst out on my fellow cops, challenged authority at every correct opportunity, began to look down on others for their very existence as if they had no right to breathe. I was miserable. In 2000, I rediscovered computers and fell in love with it. The only time I was happy at work was talking about computers. Got out and went to school. Landed my first job and I have to say that I have been happy as a pig in poo.<br>My point is; figure out what you love to do and do it. Don't look at the money, but the happiness it will bring. Money and material items are only things, but happiness is something a whole hell of a lot better. If you have a family, prepare your children and significant other that things are going to change for the better and may not appear to be better. Prepare them anyways.<br>Life is way to short to be miserable and it took me six years to figure that one out. I have been programming for a little over 2 years now and love it, but I am also not delusional either. At some point I will either have to move up or aside to let the youth take over, so I have a back up plan. I love geology and psychology and would like to dabble in those too. So be reasonable and be smart and most importantly don't move to something you loath for money, but move to something you love to do for the rest of your life. I am on my second career path and couldn't be happier earning less money then I did when I was in the Air Force.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Very true .
I was a cop in the Air Force for eight long years .
Absolutely hated being a cop , but loved the military .
Nice structure .
Anyways , I would take my angst out on my fellow cops , challenged authority at every correct opportunity , began to look down on others for their very existence as if they had no right to breathe .
I was miserable .
In 2000 , I rediscovered computers and fell in love with it .
The only time I was happy at work was talking about computers .
Got out and went to school .
Landed my first job and I have to say that I have been happy as a pig in poo.My point is ; figure out what you love to do and do it .
Do n't look at the money , but the happiness it will bring .
Money and material items are only things , but happiness is something a whole hell of a lot better .
If you have a family , prepare your children and significant other that things are going to change for the better and may not appear to be better .
Prepare them anyways.Life is way to short to be miserable and it took me six years to figure that one out .
I have been programming for a little over 2 years now and love it , but I am also not delusional either .
At some point I will either have to move up or aside to let the youth take over , so I have a back up plan .
I love geology and psychology and would like to dabble in those too .
So be reasonable and be smart and most importantly do n't move to something you loath for money , but move to something you love to do for the rest of your life .
I am on my second career path and could n't be happier earning less money then I did when I was in the Air Force .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very true.
I was a cop in the Air Force for eight long years.
Absolutely hated being a cop, but loved the military.
Nice structure.
Anyways, I would take my angst out on my fellow cops, challenged authority at every correct opportunity, began to look down on others for their very existence as if they had no right to breathe.
I was miserable.
In 2000, I rediscovered computers and fell in love with it.
The only time I was happy at work was talking about computers.
Got out and went to school.
Landed my first job and I have to say that I have been happy as a pig in poo.My point is; figure out what you love to do and do it.
Don't look at the money, but the happiness it will bring.
Money and material items are only things, but happiness is something a whole hell of a lot better.
If you have a family, prepare your children and significant other that things are going to change for the better and may not appear to be better.
Prepare them anyways.Life is way to short to be miserable and it took me six years to figure that one out.
I have been programming for a little over 2 years now and love it, but I am also not delusional either.
At some point I will either have to move up or aside to let the youth take over, so I have a back up plan.
I love geology and psychology and would like to dabble in those too.
So be reasonable and be smart and most importantly don't move to something you loath for money, but move to something you love to do for the rest of your life.
I am on my second career path and couldn't be happier earning less money then I did when I was in the Air Force.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898417</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256749200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Unicorns are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out."</p><p>As someone who has worked public sector, was a unicorn fan, and even striked with the unicorns I can say that this is not entirely the case, unicorns are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.</p><p>Unicorns are okay if their power is kept small, but in the UK they go out of control- Unicornison, one of the UK's biggest unicorns claims over 2 million members, and despite the fact half the working population are taking paycuts right now, Unicornison is still pushing for pay rises, even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid &pound;29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around &pound;16k to &pound;18k. Governments are powerless to say no though, because they simply can't deal with the damage caused by a unicorn that can put a good portion of it's 2 million members on strike. The story is the same with teachers whereby you have teachers strikes because secondary school teachers are underpaid whilst the same unicorn covers primary school teachers who hence get the same rises and who are hence now heavily overpaid for their job, but what can the government do? risk having an entire generation of kids education disrupted setting them back for life?</p><p>Similarly, unicorns have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that. This makes it impossible to get rid of dead weight, because you can't afford the associated costs with doing so - it's cheaper to keep those useless people in the job, providing a shit service than it is to get rid of them.</p><p>We also have them acting as a strongly political tool, they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for, in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a unicorn, particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views.</p><p>I agree a country entirely without unicorns really would kind of suck for workers, but on the same note, as someone who lives in a country with unicorns that are simply far too powerful, and as someone who now, looking back wishes they had not given any support whatsoever to such unicorns I disagree that you want unicorns to become more popular or more powerful. They can bring countries to a standstill even when their argument has no merit- you only have to look at the current UK postal strikes for evidence of that and note also that the Royal Mail is having to pay &pound;20m a year to provide premises and time off work for it's staff to perform unicorn activities. That's a hell of a burden on a company when the only result is for the company to get screwed over for that &pound;20m it has had to spend. It's hard to tell what the Royal Mail strikes are even about as the official line seems to be changing daily from the unicorn involved- originally they admitted job cuts were needed and that that was not the issue but now they are saying it is about jobs. The Royal Mail has lost a &pound;25m Amazon contract because of this, you simply can't have a unicorn holding a company to ransom like that at the expense of the company, particularly when the unicorn doesn't even seem to be able to remain consistent in what it's actual demands are!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Unicorns are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out .
" As someone who has worked public sector , was a unicorn fan , and even striked with the unicorns I can say that this is not entirely the case , unicorns are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.Unicorns are okay if their power is kept small , but in the UK they go out of control- Unicornison , one of the UK 's biggest unicorns claims over 2 million members , and despite the fact half the working population are taking paycuts right now , Unicornison is still pushing for pay rises , even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid   29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around   16k to   18k .
Governments are powerless to say no though , because they simply ca n't deal with the damage caused by a unicorn that can put a good portion of it 's 2 million members on strike .
The story is the same with teachers whereby you have teachers strikes because secondary school teachers are underpaid whilst the same unicorn covers primary school teachers who hence get the same rises and who are hence now heavily overpaid for their job , but what can the government do ?
risk having an entire generation of kids education disrupted setting them back for life ? Similarly , unicorns have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that .
This makes it impossible to get rid of dead weight , because you ca n't afford the associated costs with doing so - it 's cheaper to keep those useless people in the job , providing a shit service than it is to get rid of them.We also have them acting as a strongly political tool , they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for , in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a unicorn , particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views.I agree a country entirely without unicorns really would kind of suck for workers , but on the same note , as someone who lives in a country with unicorns that are simply far too powerful , and as someone who now , looking back wishes they had not given any support whatsoever to such unicorns I disagree that you want unicorns to become more popular or more powerful .
They can bring countries to a standstill even when their argument has no merit- you only have to look at the current UK postal strikes for evidence of that and note also that the Royal Mail is having to pay   20m a year to provide premises and time off work for it 's staff to perform unicorn activities .
That 's a hell of a burden on a company when the only result is for the company to get screwed over for that   20m it has had to spend .
It 's hard to tell what the Royal Mail strikes are even about as the official line seems to be changing daily from the unicorn involved- originally they admitted job cuts were needed and that that was not the issue but now they are saying it is about jobs .
The Royal Mail has lost a   25m Amazon contract because of this , you simply ca n't have a unicorn holding a company to ransom like that at the expense of the company , particularly when the unicorn does n't even seem to be able to remain consistent in what it 's actual demands are !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Unicorns are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.
"As someone who has worked public sector, was a unicorn fan, and even striked with the unicorns I can say that this is not entirely the case, unicorns are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.Unicorns are okay if their power is kept small, but in the UK they go out of control- Unicornison, one of the UK's biggest unicorns claims over 2 million members, and despite the fact half the working population are taking paycuts right now, Unicornison is still pushing for pay rises, even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid £29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around £16k to £18k.
Governments are powerless to say no though, because they simply can't deal with the damage caused by a unicorn that can put a good portion of it's 2 million members on strike.
The story is the same with teachers whereby you have teachers strikes because secondary school teachers are underpaid whilst the same unicorn covers primary school teachers who hence get the same rises and who are hence now heavily overpaid for their job, but what can the government do?
risk having an entire generation of kids education disrupted setting them back for life?Similarly, unicorns have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that.
This makes it impossible to get rid of dead weight, because you can't afford the associated costs with doing so - it's cheaper to keep those useless people in the job, providing a shit service than it is to get rid of them.We also have them acting as a strongly political tool, they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for, in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a unicorn, particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views.I agree a country entirely without unicorns really would kind of suck for workers, but on the same note, as someone who lives in a country with unicorns that are simply far too powerful, and as someone who now, looking back wishes they had not given any support whatsoever to such unicorns I disagree that you want unicorns to become more popular or more powerful.
They can bring countries to a standstill even when their argument has no merit- you only have to look at the current UK postal strikes for evidence of that and note also that the Royal Mail is having to pay £20m a year to provide premises and time off work for it's staff to perform unicorn activities.
That's a hell of a burden on a company when the only result is for the company to get screwed over for that £20m it has had to spend.
It's hard to tell what the Royal Mail strikes are even about as the official line seems to be changing daily from the unicorn involved- originally they admitted job cuts were needed and that that was not the issue but now they are saying it is about jobs.
The Royal Mail has lost a £25m Amazon contract because of this, you simply can't have a unicorn holding a company to ransom like that at the expense of the company, particularly when the unicorn doesn't even seem to be able to remain consistent in what it's actual demands are!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898079</id>
	<title>Law</title>
	<author>cfulmer</author>
	<datestamp>1256747700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>After the telecom nuclear winter, I went from being a software developer to being a law student and am now a transactional attorney, dealing largely with technology transactions and startup companies.  Drafting contracts uses many of the same root skills as programming does, and I understand the needs of my software and Internet clients much better.  Plus, the pay can be a lot better (if you go to a good law school), layoffs are a lot less frequent -- sure, attorneys were laid off in this economy, but they've generally been immune in previous downturns.  Also, since becoming a lawyer means 3 years of law school and bar admission, there's a lot less competition for available jobs.

Of course, it all depends on getting into a good law school -- there are lots of attorneys out there who graduated from 3rd tier law schools and are making less than they would have had they chosen an IT career.

And, being a lawyer is not for everybody -- lawyers have a maxim "the law is a jealous mistress."</htmltext>
<tokenext>After the telecom nuclear winter , I went from being a software developer to being a law student and am now a transactional attorney , dealing largely with technology transactions and startup companies .
Drafting contracts uses many of the same root skills as programming does , and I understand the needs of my software and Internet clients much better .
Plus , the pay can be a lot better ( if you go to a good law school ) , layoffs are a lot less frequent -- sure , attorneys were laid off in this economy , but they 've generally been immune in previous downturns .
Also , since becoming a lawyer means 3 years of law school and bar admission , there 's a lot less competition for available jobs .
Of course , it all depends on getting into a good law school -- there are lots of attorneys out there who graduated from 3rd tier law schools and are making less than they would have had they chosen an IT career .
And , being a lawyer is not for everybody -- lawyers have a maxim " the law is a jealous mistress .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After the telecom nuclear winter, I went from being a software developer to being a law student and am now a transactional attorney, dealing largely with technology transactions and startup companies.
Drafting contracts uses many of the same root skills as programming does, and I understand the needs of my software and Internet clients much better.
Plus, the pay can be a lot better (if you go to a good law school), layoffs are a lot less frequent -- sure, attorneys were laid off in this economy, but they've generally been immune in previous downturns.
Also, since becoming a lawyer means 3 years of law school and bar admission, there's a lot less competition for available jobs.
Of course, it all depends on getting into a good law school -- there are lots of attorneys out there who graduated from 3rd tier law schools and are making less than they would have had they chosen an IT career.
And, being a lawyer is not for everybody -- lawyers have a maxim "the law is a jealous mistress.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893591</id>
	<title>Out of the frying pan, and into the fire</title>
	<author>siddesu</author>
	<datestamp>1256669580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I got out of IT after more than 10 years in the field (and CTO-ing for a public company in my last job) as I finally got fed up with it. After a longish sabbatical, I started a small bakery/coffee shop. I'd say it is as big a change as you can axe for, and I have been pretty happy so far. I still use some of my mad skillz, but since I went the hard way - designed and built my shop and equipment more or less from scratch - I had to learn (and I am still learning) a lot of stuff - from carpentry, construction work and machinery to advanced chemistry.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p><p>At the beginning, the money wasn't that good and it was hard work and long hours, but eventually things picked up and now I am better off than I used to be. The biggest benefit outside of the pay is the free time -- now I have a lot of time for side projects. Half are somewhat related to extending the business, the other half are just things I like. I don't push it very hard though, because that was what I was running away from in the first place. Overall, I regret it I didn't run away from the field earlier. That said, I got into IT by accident, and I didn't like it that much.</p><p>Good luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got out of IT after more than 10 years in the field ( and CTO-ing for a public company in my last job ) as I finally got fed up with it .
After a longish sabbatical , I started a small bakery/coffee shop .
I 'd say it is as big a change as you can axe for , and I have been pretty happy so far .
I still use some of my mad skillz , but since I went the hard way - designed and built my shop and equipment more or less from scratch - I had to learn ( and I am still learning ) a lot of stuff - from carpentry , construction work and machinery to advanced chemistry .
; ) At the beginning , the money was n't that good and it was hard work and long hours , but eventually things picked up and now I am better off than I used to be .
The biggest benefit outside of the pay is the free time -- now I have a lot of time for side projects .
Half are somewhat related to extending the business , the other half are just things I like .
I do n't push it very hard though , because that was what I was running away from in the first place .
Overall , I regret it I did n't run away from the field earlier .
That said , I got into IT by accident , and I did n't like it that much.Good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got out of IT after more than 10 years in the field (and CTO-ing for a public company in my last job) as I finally got fed up with it.
After a longish sabbatical, I started a small bakery/coffee shop.
I'd say it is as big a change as you can axe for, and I have been pretty happy so far.
I still use some of my mad skillz, but since I went the hard way - designed and built my shop and equipment more or less from scratch - I had to learn (and I am still learning) a lot of stuff - from carpentry, construction work and machinery to advanced chemistry.
;)At the beginning, the money wasn't that good and it was hard work and long hours, but eventually things picked up and now I am better off than I used to be.
The biggest benefit outside of the pay is the free time -- now I have a lot of time for side projects.
Half are somewhat related to extending the business, the other half are just things I like.
I don't push it very hard though, because that was what I was running away from in the first place.
Overall, I regret it I didn't run away from the field earlier.
That said, I got into IT by accident, and I didn't like it that much.Good luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894195</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256721000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...those highly paid folks require high levels of experience, intelligence and competence (and connections)</p></div><p>... and hookers and blow.
<br> <br>
Being useful to others will do that.. It will get you hookers and blow.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...those highly paid folks require high levels of experience , intelligence and competence ( and connections ) ... and hookers and blow .
Being useful to others will do that.. It will get you hookers and blow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...those highly paid folks require high levels of experience, intelligence and competence (and connections)... and hookers and blow.
Being useful to others will do that.. It will get you hookers and blow.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893631</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894037</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Billly Gates</author>
	<datestamp>1256761740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can thank Clinton and Bush for making it so easy and profitable to outsource American labor. When consumer spending owns 70\% of the economy because there is no manufacturing or business spending left in the U.S. it is a huge problem.</p><p>In past recessions business spending brings the economy up and then consumers follow. Now it does not make a difference as invested money just goes to China and India and not back to us. Consumers are working for less and working more hours cut back on spending until things improve.</p><p>We did not allow this. THe corrupt lobbiests and politicians did. We need to fight back and form a third party or get involved with other workers like auto and factory workers who can't compete and end free trade. Only then will we get our salaries and our jobs back. Yes in a recession like this one I am willing to cut throat and kiss b*tt not to go homeless and its hopeless trying to have us all agree to stand up when so much labor is available.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can thank Clinton and Bush for making it so easy and profitable to outsource American labor .
When consumer spending owns 70 \ % of the economy because there is no manufacturing or business spending left in the U.S. it is a huge problem.In past recessions business spending brings the economy up and then consumers follow .
Now it does not make a difference as invested money just goes to China and India and not back to us .
Consumers are working for less and working more hours cut back on spending until things improve.We did not allow this .
THe corrupt lobbiests and politicians did .
We need to fight back and form a third party or get involved with other workers like auto and factory workers who ca n't compete and end free trade .
Only then will we get our salaries and our jobs back .
Yes in a recession like this one I am willing to cut throat and kiss b * tt not to go homeless and its hopeless trying to have us all agree to stand up when so much labor is available .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can thank Clinton and Bush for making it so easy and profitable to outsource American labor.
When consumer spending owns 70\% of the economy because there is no manufacturing or business spending left in the U.S. it is a huge problem.In past recessions business spending brings the economy up and then consumers follow.
Now it does not make a difference as invested money just goes to China and India and not back to us.
Consumers are working for less and working more hours cut back on spending until things improve.We did not allow this.
THe corrupt lobbiests and politicians did.
We need to fight back and form a third party or get involved with other workers like auto and factory workers who can't compete and end free trade.
Only then will we get our salaries and our jobs back.
Yes in a recession like this one I am willing to cut throat and kiss b*tt not to go homeless and its hopeless trying to have us all agree to stand up when so much labor is available.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29906581</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>st0nes</author>
	<datestamp>1256750700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I bought a gym franchise with my savings.  My wife, who used to be a nurse, runs it and I just look after the admin side (it's a woman's gym and I'm not allowed in during open hours; we've got some muslim members who would probably get stoned if they were seen by a man in their leotards) and give the girls on the staff an occasional pep talk.  Money was crap initially, but as our membership built up it improved, then the financial meltdown happened and our membership plummeted.  I have had to go back to work in IT to make ends meet while we ride out the storm, but things are starting to improve again and we should be back in profit within the next month or so.

Starting your own business is something to think about, but only if you have sufficient capital to set it up and keep yourself for at least a year until it shows a profit. Remember that some things you take for granted in the corporate world you would have to provide for yourself: health insurance, pension or provident plan, etc. You will probably experience some sleepless nights; your responsibilities are likely to be far more onerous than anything you experienced in the IT field, but the potential rewards are great.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I bought a gym franchise with my savings .
My wife , who used to be a nurse , runs it and I just look after the admin side ( it 's a woman 's gym and I 'm not allowed in during open hours ; we 've got some muslim members who would probably get stoned if they were seen by a man in their leotards ) and give the girls on the staff an occasional pep talk .
Money was crap initially , but as our membership built up it improved , then the financial meltdown happened and our membership plummeted .
I have had to go back to work in IT to make ends meet while we ride out the storm , but things are starting to improve again and we should be back in profit within the next month or so .
Starting your own business is something to think about , but only if you have sufficient capital to set it up and keep yourself for at least a year until it shows a profit .
Remember that some things you take for granted in the corporate world you would have to provide for yourself : health insurance , pension or provident plan , etc .
You will probably experience some sleepless nights ; your responsibilities are likely to be far more onerous than anything you experienced in the IT field , but the potential rewards are great .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bought a gym franchise with my savings.
My wife, who used to be a nurse, runs it and I just look after the admin side (it's a woman's gym and I'm not allowed in during open hours; we've got some muslim members who would probably get stoned if they were seen by a man in their leotards) and give the girls on the staff an occasional pep talk.
Money was crap initially, but as our membership built up it improved, then the financial meltdown happened and our membership plummeted.
I have had to go back to work in IT to make ends meet while we ride out the storm, but things are starting to improve again and we should be back in profit within the next month or so.
Starting your own business is something to think about, but only if you have sufficient capital to set it up and keep yourself for at least a year until it shows a profit.
Remember that some things you take for granted in the corporate world you would have to provide for yourself: health insurance, pension or provident plan, etc.
You will probably experience some sleepless nights; your responsibilities are likely to be far more onerous than anything you experienced in the IT field, but the potential rewards are great.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897507</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256745480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lighten up.  Maybe he lives in a rough neighborhood and needs some extra security.  Bottom line, you're picking on a guy who is wasting hardly any gas driving 2 miles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lighten up .
Maybe he lives in a rough neighborhood and needs some extra security .
Bottom line , you 're picking on a guy who is wasting hardly any gas driving 2 miles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lighten up.
Maybe he lives in a rough neighborhood and needs some extra security.
Bottom line, you're picking on a guy who is wasting hardly any gas driving 2 miles.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894847</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898117</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256747880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I should have never got into the software field.  I graduated from engineering in the nineties.  I should have gone straight for med school instead of wasting time in IT.  Let the past by the past.  Since 2000 my jobs have all sucked.  Under incompetent management.  I feel as if I accomplished little.  Now I'm trying to get back into health care which is what I always wanted to do.  I have been studying to become a PA.  If not then RN or MD.  I don't care at this point how long it takes.  So who cares I'll be 45 or whatever when I'm done.  It is better than IT.  Wife has a decent job (non-IT of course) and enough savings that money should not be a big problem.  If you are under 50 and not crazy about IT then get out.  I am already much happier knowing that my days in IT are numbered and I will be doing something better, more interesting, more fulfilling, more prestige, more respect and most likely more pay.  I look at it like a divorce that needs to be done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I should have never got into the software field .
I graduated from engineering in the nineties .
I should have gone straight for med school instead of wasting time in IT .
Let the past by the past .
Since 2000 my jobs have all sucked .
Under incompetent management .
I feel as if I accomplished little .
Now I 'm trying to get back into health care which is what I always wanted to do .
I have been studying to become a PA. If not then RN or MD .
I do n't care at this point how long it takes .
So who cares I 'll be 45 or whatever when I 'm done .
It is better than IT .
Wife has a decent job ( non-IT of course ) and enough savings that money should not be a big problem .
If you are under 50 and not crazy about IT then get out .
I am already much happier knowing that my days in IT are numbered and I will be doing something better , more interesting , more fulfilling , more prestige , more respect and most likely more pay .
I look at it like a divorce that needs to be done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I should have never got into the software field.
I graduated from engineering in the nineties.
I should have gone straight for med school instead of wasting time in IT.
Let the past by the past.
Since 2000 my jobs have all sucked.
Under incompetent management.
I feel as if I accomplished little.
Now I'm trying to get back into health care which is what I always wanted to do.
I have been studying to become a PA.  If not then RN or MD.
I don't care at this point how long it takes.
So who cares I'll be 45 or whatever when I'm done.
It is better than IT.
Wife has a decent job (non-IT of course) and enough savings that money should not be a big problem.
If you are under 50 and not crazy about IT then get out.
I am already much happier knowing that my days in IT are numbered and I will be doing something better, more interesting, more fulfilling, more prestige, more respect and most likely more pay.
I look at it like a divorce that needs to be done.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29899683</id>
	<title>Re:Getting old in IT is the kiss of death.</title>
	<author>imakemusic</author>
	<datestamp>1256754600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How is it that our field is the only one where the older you get, the more worthless you are perceived as being?</p></div><p>It's the same with all the glamorous professions - popstars, pornstars, actors...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How is it that our field is the only one where the older you get , the more worthless you are perceived as being ? It 's the same with all the glamorous professions - popstars , pornstars , actors.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is it that our field is the only one where the older you get, the more worthless you are perceived as being?It's the same with all the glamorous professions - popstars, pornstars, actors...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893773</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898037</id>
	<title>I'm going to be out in a while also..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256747580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My wife is currently studying to be a dentist, and while that will take a while, I am starting to slowly prepare to go to medical school.</p><p>I get such a great high of fixing problems in a technical capacity, I imagine the feeling of saving a life would be an amazing feeling as well. I know it's hard work and long hours and all, but not much unlike what I do now, and I'd feel much more accomplished if I came home and had saved a life, rather than saved irrecoverable data or something to that effect.</p><p>I am on a 10 year plan or so, so it will be a while before I make headway into that field, but I intend on doing it, and I'm working slowly towards that goal.</p><p>Good luck to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife is currently studying to be a dentist , and while that will take a while , I am starting to slowly prepare to go to medical school.I get such a great high of fixing problems in a technical capacity , I imagine the feeling of saving a life would be an amazing feeling as well .
I know it 's hard work and long hours and all , but not much unlike what I do now , and I 'd feel much more accomplished if I came home and had saved a life , rather than saved irrecoverable data or something to that effect.I am on a 10 year plan or so , so it will be a while before I make headway into that field , but I intend on doing it , and I 'm working slowly towards that goal.Good luck to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife is currently studying to be a dentist, and while that will take a while, I am starting to slowly prepare to go to medical school.I get such a great high of fixing problems in a technical capacity, I imagine the feeling of saving a life would be an amazing feeling as well.
I know it's hard work and long hours and all, but not much unlike what I do now, and I'd feel much more accomplished if I came home and had saved a life, rather than saved irrecoverable data or something to that effect.I am on a 10 year plan or so, so it will be a while before I make headway into that field, but I intend on doing it, and I'm working slowly towards that goal.Good luck to you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893493</id>
	<title>But what to do?</title>
	<author>GroovyChk</author>
	<datestamp>1256668500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm wanting to get away from it as well.  I'm good at it, been doing it for a long time - but I'm sick of it.  At this point I have no idea where to go though.
I recently started taking university courses again - going to see where that leads me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm wanting to get away from it as well .
I 'm good at it , been doing it for a long time - but I 'm sick of it .
At this point I have no idea where to go though .
I recently started taking university courses again - going to see where that leads me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm wanting to get away from it as well.
I'm good at it, been doing it for a long time - but I'm sick of it.
At this point I have no idea where to go though.
I recently started taking university courses again - going to see where that leads me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893829</id>
	<title>From IT Tech to Slot Tech</title>
	<author>J-Rod\_Brown</author>
	<datestamp>1256672520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I went from IT to working on slot machines... The switch wasn't that difficult as far as troubleshooting, deployment, and repair but its a different world. Instead of cube farms, you get to work on a small army of money making machines. One of the most interesting facets of the job is the customers. They are so varied and odd ball that its a riot. Especially when people think they can scam you out of some money saying a game cheated them on this or that. Its not a huge career move but I love the environment I work in. It is much less stress and you get to walk around a lot and meet many interesting people with many interesting stories. Good luck with the economy in some states, though. Most of the Indian casinos are holding up alright while other Class III facilities (especially Vegas/Lake Tahoe) are struggling (it all has to do with the customer base...).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I went from IT to working on slot machines... The switch was n't that difficult as far as troubleshooting , deployment , and repair but its a different world .
Instead of cube farms , you get to work on a small army of money making machines .
One of the most interesting facets of the job is the customers .
They are so varied and odd ball that its a riot .
Especially when people think they can scam you out of some money saying a game cheated them on this or that .
Its not a huge career move but I love the environment I work in .
It is much less stress and you get to walk around a lot and meet many interesting people with many interesting stories .
Good luck with the economy in some states , though .
Most of the Indian casinos are holding up alright while other Class III facilities ( especially Vegas/Lake Tahoe ) are struggling ( it all has to do with the customer base... ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went from IT to working on slot machines... The switch wasn't that difficult as far as troubleshooting, deployment, and repair but its a different world.
Instead of cube farms, you get to work on a small army of money making machines.
One of the most interesting facets of the job is the customers.
They are so varied and odd ball that its a riot.
Especially when people think they can scam you out of some money saying a game cheated them on this or that.
Its not a huge career move but I love the environment I work in.
It is much less stress and you get to walk around a lot and meet many interesting people with many interesting stories.
Good luck with the economy in some states, though.
Most of the Indian casinos are holding up alright while other Class III facilities (especially Vegas/Lake Tahoe) are struggling (it all has to do with the customer base...).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898241</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256748480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ditto.  Left the corporate world 5+ years ago.  Now doing residential and small business computer repair, networking, etc.out of my home with over 1000 customers (livin' large in the metropolis).</p><p>Guess what?  I have not "worked" a single day since I started this gig.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ditto .
Left the corporate world 5 + years ago .
Now doing residential and small business computer repair , networking , etc.out of my home with over 1000 customers ( livin ' large in the metropolis ) .Guess what ?
I have not " worked " a single day since I started this gig .
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ditto.
Left the corporate world 5+ years ago.
Now doing residential and small business computer repair, networking, etc.out of my home with over 1000 customers (livin' large in the metropolis).Guess what?
I have not "worked" a single day since I started this gig.
:-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893785</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896261</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>cellurl</author>
	<datestamp>1256740680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>yea, but you get to watch "Green Wing".</htmltext>
<tokenext>yea , but you get to watch " Green Wing " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yea, but you get to watch "Green Wing".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895723</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893723</id>
	<title>How'd I handle the income change after leaving IT?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256671560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> I just started lighting Altadis Behike cigars with $1,000 bills.  As long as I smoked at least a couple a week, my income stayed about the same. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just started lighting Altadis Behike cigars with $ 1,000 bills .
As long as I smoked at least a couple a week , my income stayed about the same .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I just started lighting Altadis Behike cigars with $1,000 bills.
As long as I smoked at least a couple a week, my income stayed about the same. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896955</id>
	<title>IT the land of opportunity</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256743320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've felt your pain irving47, however those days are long gone for those working as a contractor for the DoD. Consider looking for jobs in area's where they have a strong military presence. With a few certs to backup your credentials a government contractor will pick you up in a heartbeat. I made the switch 2 years ago and ended up getting a considerable increase in pay because of it. In addition to that I get to use the latest hardware and software with budgets that seem endless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've felt your pain irving47 , however those days are long gone for those working as a contractor for the DoD .
Consider looking for jobs in area 's where they have a strong military presence .
With a few certs to backup your credentials a government contractor will pick you up in a heartbeat .
I made the switch 2 years ago and ended up getting a considerable increase in pay because of it .
In addition to that I get to use the latest hardware and software with budgets that seem endless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've felt your pain irving47, however those days are long gone for those working as a contractor for the DoD.
Consider looking for jobs in area's where they have a strong military presence.
With a few certs to backup your credentials a government contractor will pick you up in a heartbeat.
I made the switch 2 years ago and ended up getting a considerable increase in pay because of it.
In addition to that I get to use the latest hardware and software with budgets that seem endless.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898727</id>
	<title>Re:A Change is as Good as a Rest</title>
	<author>freg</author>
	<datestamp>1256750700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's quite an inspiring post for me (not that I hadn't thought of doing just that already, it's awesome to hear from those who have done it).  As an IT guy who's only been at it for 5 years I'm already starting to see that my previous dream of just finding any local job and keeping it is a little small..  It's a global economy now anyway right?  Why shouldn't more of us scrap this American dream thing, travel the world and help out where we're needed.  Besides staying here is just padding more wealthy peoples pockets, whether mine or the stockholders, either way it's less beneficial for those who need it most. I'd like to stick with IT, but I'm curious particularly about India, and wondering if any native Westerners have been reassigned there or moved there at will and what your thoughts/experiences concerning your job experience?</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's quite an inspiring post for me ( not that I had n't thought of doing just that already , it 's awesome to hear from those who have done it ) .
As an IT guy who 's only been at it for 5 years I 'm already starting to see that my previous dream of just finding any local job and keeping it is a little small.. It 's a global economy now anyway right ?
Why should n't more of us scrap this American dream thing , travel the world and help out where we 're needed .
Besides staying here is just padding more wealthy peoples pockets , whether mine or the stockholders , either way it 's less beneficial for those who need it most .
I 'd like to stick with IT , but I 'm curious particularly about India , and wondering if any native Westerners have been reassigned there or moved there at will and what your thoughts/experiences concerning your job experience ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's quite an inspiring post for me (not that I hadn't thought of doing just that already, it's awesome to hear from those who have done it).
As an IT guy who's only been at it for 5 years I'm already starting to see that my previous dream of just finding any local job and keeping it is a little small..  It's a global economy now anyway right?
Why shouldn't more of us scrap this American dream thing, travel the world and help out where we're needed.
Besides staying here is just padding more wealthy peoples pockets, whether mine or the stockholders, either way it's less beneficial for those who need it most.
I'd like to stick with IT, but I'm curious particularly about India, and wondering if any native Westerners have been reassigned there or moved there at will and what your thoughts/experiences concerning your job experience?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896673</id>
	<title>Re:Out of the frying pan, and into the fire</title>
	<author>DeadTOm</author>
	<datestamp>1256742240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I worked as a LAN support tech in the banking industry for just over seven years. For the first couple of years it was great. The pay was good, the work was satisfying, lots of travel and the company took care of me. Then came the inevitable reorganizations, one a year it seemed like. The new people in charge had no comprehension of what IT people do. As far as they were concerned we're just the people that fix broken stuff. They had no idea of all the things we do in the back ground that never get noticed because it was all working exactly as it was supposed to. They only noticed when things went wrong and in the corporate world you're only as good as your last mistake. They kept moving our offices around to smaller and smaller spaces until it was down to just me tucked away in the far corner of the basement (ala "Office Space", seriously).<br> <br>
First, like someone else said, I had to justify every purchase I made, every drive across town to check out a problem that couldn't be looked at remotely, hell every box of pens I bought. Then for the last few years it became a fight every year to justify my position at all. They finally laid me off this last May. I've spent the summer using what was left of my cashed out 401K to supplement my wife's income to take care of our family and now that is nearly depleted. I've done lots of temp work and interviewed for plenty of IT positions at less than half the pay that I was getting. In fact I just interviewed this last Monday morning with one of my former employer's competitors, doing the same job for a whopping $11.75 an hour. Apparently that's all my degree, certifications and 7 years of experience commands any more. If they offer me the job I'll have no choice but to take it and do my best not to have a chip on my shoulder about it.<br> <br>
I really feel like IT is a dead end industry now. I've also been asked many times if IT is the way to go for a career and I always say no. Very emphatically NO. A janitor gets more appreciation and better pay than a tech here. Maybe that'll be my next career move. Cleaning up after snot nosed 10 year olds at an elementary school. Somehow it doesn't seem all that different than doing tech work for a large corporation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I worked as a LAN support tech in the banking industry for just over seven years .
For the first couple of years it was great .
The pay was good , the work was satisfying , lots of travel and the company took care of me .
Then came the inevitable reorganizations , one a year it seemed like .
The new people in charge had no comprehension of what IT people do .
As far as they were concerned we 're just the people that fix broken stuff .
They had no idea of all the things we do in the back ground that never get noticed because it was all working exactly as it was supposed to .
They only noticed when things went wrong and in the corporate world you 're only as good as your last mistake .
They kept moving our offices around to smaller and smaller spaces until it was down to just me tucked away in the far corner of the basement ( ala " Office Space " , seriously ) .
First , like someone else said , I had to justify every purchase I made , every drive across town to check out a problem that could n't be looked at remotely , hell every box of pens I bought .
Then for the last few years it became a fight every year to justify my position at all .
They finally laid me off this last May .
I 've spent the summer using what was left of my cashed out 401K to supplement my wife 's income to take care of our family and now that is nearly depleted .
I 've done lots of temp work and interviewed for plenty of IT positions at less than half the pay that I was getting .
In fact I just interviewed this last Monday morning with one of my former employer 's competitors , doing the same job for a whopping $ 11.75 an hour .
Apparently that 's all my degree , certifications and 7 years of experience commands any more .
If they offer me the job I 'll have no choice but to take it and do my best not to have a chip on my shoulder about it .
I really feel like IT is a dead end industry now .
I 've also been asked many times if IT is the way to go for a career and I always say no .
Very emphatically NO .
A janitor gets more appreciation and better pay than a tech here .
Maybe that 'll be my next career move .
Cleaning up after snot nosed 10 year olds at an elementary school .
Somehow it does n't seem all that different than doing tech work for a large corporation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worked as a LAN support tech in the banking industry for just over seven years.
For the first couple of years it was great.
The pay was good, the work was satisfying, lots of travel and the company took care of me.
Then came the inevitable reorganizations, one a year it seemed like.
The new people in charge had no comprehension of what IT people do.
As far as they were concerned we're just the people that fix broken stuff.
They had no idea of all the things we do in the back ground that never get noticed because it was all working exactly as it was supposed to.
They only noticed when things went wrong and in the corporate world you're only as good as your last mistake.
They kept moving our offices around to smaller and smaller spaces until it was down to just me tucked away in the far corner of the basement (ala "Office Space", seriously).
First, like someone else said, I had to justify every purchase I made, every drive across town to check out a problem that couldn't be looked at remotely, hell every box of pens I bought.
Then for the last few years it became a fight every year to justify my position at all.
They finally laid me off this last May.
I've spent the summer using what was left of my cashed out 401K to supplement my wife's income to take care of our family and now that is nearly depleted.
I've done lots of temp work and interviewed for plenty of IT positions at less than half the pay that I was getting.
In fact I just interviewed this last Monday morning with one of my former employer's competitors, doing the same job for a whopping $11.75 an hour.
Apparently that's all my degree, certifications and 7 years of experience commands any more.
If they offer me the job I'll have no choice but to take it and do my best not to have a chip on my shoulder about it.
I really feel like IT is a dead end industry now.
I've also been asked many times if IT is the way to go for a career and I always say no.
Very emphatically NO.
A janitor gets more appreciation and better pay than a tech here.
Maybe that'll be my next career move.
Cleaning up after snot nosed 10 year olds at an elementary school.
Somehow it doesn't seem all that different than doing tech work for a large corporation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893591</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894451</id>
	<title>Take a break first.</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1256724780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you are set on quitting IT save some money and then take a break, if possible arrange with your current employer for a period of unpaid leave, or working part time (I wonder if such things are possible in the good olde US of A)</p><p>Then study something you are interested in. You don't need to spend tons of money, get books from the library, attend trade shows and seminars, if you can pay one or two proper courses.</p><p>This will give you the chance to clear your head, realize if you really hate IT that much, of if your future is elsewhere.</p><p>Something I am personally exploring is to do 3 or 4 different but marginally related things. I will remain on IT but I may do something much simpler instead of administering cutting edge stuff. It seems that Western companies want only people based in Mumbai and Manila (hello guys!) doing any interesting work, so I am happy to do the work that needs a personal touch, even if it pays less.</p><p>But at the same time I am learning to be a translator (English speaking people should really get of their asses and learn a second language), a photographer and film maker and dabbling in long term share trading (the bozos managing our money don't really know what they are doing any way, so I can as well trust another economics ignoramus: me) and spread betting (are USians allowed to actually do that? Or is not halal?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are set on quitting IT save some money and then take a break , if possible arrange with your current employer for a period of unpaid leave , or working part time ( I wonder if such things are possible in the good olde US of A ) Then study something you are interested in .
You do n't need to spend tons of money , get books from the library , attend trade shows and seminars , if you can pay one or two proper courses.This will give you the chance to clear your head , realize if you really hate IT that much , of if your future is elsewhere.Something I am personally exploring is to do 3 or 4 different but marginally related things .
I will remain on IT but I may do something much simpler instead of administering cutting edge stuff .
It seems that Western companies want only people based in Mumbai and Manila ( hello guys !
) doing any interesting work , so I am happy to do the work that needs a personal touch , even if it pays less.But at the same time I am learning to be a translator ( English speaking people should really get of their asses and learn a second language ) , a photographer and film maker and dabbling in long term share trading ( the bozos managing our money do n't really know what they are doing any way , so I can as well trust another economics ignoramus : me ) and spread betting ( are USians allowed to actually do that ?
Or is not halal ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are set on quitting IT save some money and then take a break, if possible arrange with your current employer for a period of unpaid leave, or working part time (I wonder if such things are possible in the good olde US of A)Then study something you are interested in.
You don't need to spend tons of money, get books from the library, attend trade shows and seminars, if you can pay one or two proper courses.This will give you the chance to clear your head, realize if you really hate IT that much, of if your future is elsewhere.Something I am personally exploring is to do 3 or 4 different but marginally related things.
I will remain on IT but I may do something much simpler instead of administering cutting edge stuff.
It seems that Western companies want only people based in Mumbai and Manila (hello guys!
) doing any interesting work, so I am happy to do the work that needs a personal touch, even if it pays less.But at the same time I am learning to be a translator (English speaking people should really get of their asses and learn a second language), a photographer and film maker and dabbling in long term share trading (the bozos managing our money don't really know what they are doing any way, so I can as well trust another economics ignoramus: me) and spread betting (are USians allowed to actually do that?
Or is not halal?
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893929</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>thynk</author>
	<datestamp>1256760480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>How did it come to this?</i></p><p>We let them take away our over voltage cattle prods.  Plain and simple.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How did it come to this ? We let them take away our over voltage cattle prods .
Plain and simple .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How did it come to this?We let them take away our over voltage cattle prods.
Plain and simple.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894615</id>
	<title>Moving Away From the IT Field?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256727900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Heresy!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Heresy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heresy!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894121</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>SirYakksALot</author>
	<datestamp>1256763000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How did it come to this?  Free markets.  If you're willing to take crap, it's only a matter of time until someone makes you take crap.</p><p>I got into computers in 1993, back when it was the wild west.  Then PHBs, lawyers and politicians started stepping in it, and a plague of cubicles swept the landscape.  If you don't like the new rules, bail out.</p><p>I'm in law school now<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How did it come to this ?
Free markets .
If you 're willing to take crap , it 's only a matter of time until someone makes you take crap.I got into computers in 1993 , back when it was the wild west .
Then PHBs , lawyers and politicians started stepping in it , and a plague of cubicles swept the landscape .
If you do n't like the new rules , bail out.I 'm in law school now : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How did it come to this?
Free markets.
If you're willing to take crap, it's only a matter of time until someone makes you take crap.I got into computers in 1993, back when it was the wild west.
Then PHBs, lawyers and politicians started stepping in it, and a plague of cubicles swept the landscape.
If you don't like the new rules, bail out.I'm in law school now :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893781</id>
	<title>Just have a break.</title>
	<author>nickgrieve</author>
	<datestamp>1256672040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After 10 years in IT I quit and went to Culinary School.  I am now back in IT. Cooking for a job sucks.  Mornings at your own pace, checking emails with a coffee and a pastry is not that bad.  Just take some time off IT, and do something totally not IT.</p><p>I scaled back from working all hours in a full on job for a film and TV production studio, everything was mission critical...</p><p>Now I am a senior technician in a small town outfit, my skills from past life in a high pressure bleeding edge job help me every day.  You'd be surprised at how fulfilling just dropping back a peg or two can be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After 10 years in IT I quit and went to Culinary School .
I am now back in IT .
Cooking for a job sucks .
Mornings at your own pace , checking emails with a coffee and a pastry is not that bad .
Just take some time off IT , and do something totally not IT.I scaled back from working all hours in a full on job for a film and TV production studio , everything was mission critical...Now I am a senior technician in a small town outfit , my skills from past life in a high pressure bleeding edge job help me every day .
You 'd be surprised at how fulfilling just dropping back a peg or two can be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After 10 years in IT I quit and went to Culinary School.
I am now back in IT.
Cooking for a job sucks.
Mornings at your own pace, checking emails with a coffee and a pastry is not that bad.
Just take some time off IT, and do something totally not IT.I scaled back from working all hours in a full on job for a film and TV production studio, everything was mission critical...Now I am a senior technician in a small town outfit, my skills from past life in a high pressure bleeding edge job help me every day.
You'd be surprised at how fulfilling just dropping back a peg or two can be.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895263</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>maitas</author>
	<datestamp>1256734140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow...</p><p>
&nbsp; Unformtunatelly the "I hit the low point some 4 years ago. , when it suddenly dawned on me that I tended to wake up in the morning thinking how much easier it would be just to give up; take an overdose of something pleasant and say goodbye. Except that you can't, really, when you have children adn a wife that love you - sometimes hope really is the worst thing." part is too familiar to me and to many other co-workers here.</p><p>
&nbsp; I just quit psichiatric treatment and although it was great, I'm really scared that many others falls in the same depresion I was in... and reading this makes me feel it is going to be even more pervasive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow.. .   Unformtunatelly the " I hit the low point some 4 years ago .
, when it suddenly dawned on me that I tended to wake up in the morning thinking how much easier it would be just to give up ; take an overdose of something pleasant and say goodbye .
Except that you ca n't , really , when you have children adn a wife that love you - sometimes hope really is the worst thing .
" part is too familiar to me and to many other co-workers here .
  I just quit psichiatric treatment and although it was great , I 'm really scared that many others falls in the same depresion I was in... and reading this makes me feel it is going to be even more pervasive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow...
  Unformtunatelly the "I hit the low point some 4 years ago.
, when it suddenly dawned on me that I tended to wake up in the morning thinking how much easier it would be just to give up; take an overdose of something pleasant and say goodbye.
Except that you can't, really, when you have children adn a wife that love you - sometimes hope really is the worst thing.
" part is too familiar to me and to many other co-workers here.
  I just quit psichiatric treatment and although it was great, I'm really scared that many others falls in the same depresion I was in... and reading this makes me feel it is going to be even more pervasive.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896963</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256743320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I should preface this by saying that <i>every</i> experience I've had with a union has been negative, so I'm somewhat soured on them. I also stipulate that unions did serve a legitimate purpose once, but now most of the things they fought for are codified into law.</p><p><div class="quote"><p> I would have 6 weeks paid vacation every year, great medical, stable work, and no politics or being treated like an overpaid janitor.</p> </div><p>No politics? What the hell union is that? Every organization has politics.</p><p><div class="quote"><p> Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.</p></div><p>Funny. I was a consultant for the federal government, and I saw the exact opposite. People who would literally come into the office say "Good morning" to me, then proceed to sleep at their desks for eight hours. One guy who spent four hours reading a newspaper every morning. A secretary who didn't bathe and therefore stank, was abusive to her coworkers, and would deliberately sabotage projects.</p><p>It took <b>two years</b> to get rid of her. Say what you want about corporate America, that nonsense would've lasted all of about two minutes before her ass was gone.</p><p>But the worst part about unions is the fact that they only credit time of service. So that youngster with the great ideas that saved the organization hundreds or thousands of dollars isn't rewarded with promotions, he has to wait while some twenty year union man sleeps at his desk. This was dramatically illustrated for me when a new crop of interns started working at the agency where I was consulting. They came in bright eyed and energetic, and six months later it was like someone just flipped a switch and their brains shut off. Why innovate or work hard when <b>it doesn't matter</b> because you won't be rewarded?</p><p>It's interesting but someone at that same agency must agree with me, because now they're increasing the number of consultants and contractors instead of replacing employees who retire. Why?<br>1. Once the contract/project is done, the contractor can be released.<br>2. Consultants are cheaper in the long run because they don't have the salary, health care costs, etc. associated with employees.<br>3. Consultants employed by this organization turn in products that are on time and of higher quality than the work done by employees.</p><p>Anyway, just wanted to provide a different view of the union.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I should preface this by saying that every experience I 've had with a union has been negative , so I 'm somewhat soured on them .
I also stipulate that unions did serve a legitimate purpose once , but now most of the things they fought for are codified into law .
I would have 6 weeks paid vacation every year , great medical , stable work , and no politics or being treated like an overpaid janitor .
No politics ?
What the hell union is that ?
Every organization has politics .
Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.Funny .
I was a consultant for the federal government , and I saw the exact opposite .
People who would literally come into the office say " Good morning " to me , then proceed to sleep at their desks for eight hours .
One guy who spent four hours reading a newspaper every morning .
A secretary who did n't bathe and therefore stank , was abusive to her coworkers , and would deliberately sabotage projects.It took two years to get rid of her .
Say what you want about corporate America , that nonsense would 've lasted all of about two minutes before her ass was gone.But the worst part about unions is the fact that they only credit time of service .
So that youngster with the great ideas that saved the organization hundreds or thousands of dollars is n't rewarded with promotions , he has to wait while some twenty year union man sleeps at his desk .
This was dramatically illustrated for me when a new crop of interns started working at the agency where I was consulting .
They came in bright eyed and energetic , and six months later it was like someone just flipped a switch and their brains shut off .
Why innovate or work hard when it does n't matter because you wo n't be rewarded ? It 's interesting but someone at that same agency must agree with me , because now they 're increasing the number of consultants and contractors instead of replacing employees who retire .
Why ? 1. Once the contract/project is done , the contractor can be released.2 .
Consultants are cheaper in the long run because they do n't have the salary , health care costs , etc .
associated with employees.3 .
Consultants employed by this organization turn in products that are on time and of higher quality than the work done by employees.Anyway , just wanted to provide a different view of the union .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I should preface this by saying that every experience I've had with a union has been negative, so I'm somewhat soured on them.
I also stipulate that unions did serve a legitimate purpose once, but now most of the things they fought for are codified into law.
I would have 6 weeks paid vacation every year, great medical, stable work, and no politics or being treated like an overpaid janitor.
No politics?
What the hell union is that?
Every organization has politics.
Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.Funny.
I was a consultant for the federal government, and I saw the exact opposite.
People who would literally come into the office say "Good morning" to me, then proceed to sleep at their desks for eight hours.
One guy who spent four hours reading a newspaper every morning.
A secretary who didn't bathe and therefore stank, was abusive to her coworkers, and would deliberately sabotage projects.It took two years to get rid of her.
Say what you want about corporate America, that nonsense would've lasted all of about two minutes before her ass was gone.But the worst part about unions is the fact that they only credit time of service.
So that youngster with the great ideas that saved the organization hundreds or thousands of dollars isn't rewarded with promotions, he has to wait while some twenty year union man sleeps at his desk.
This was dramatically illustrated for me when a new crop of interns started working at the agency where I was consulting.
They came in bright eyed and energetic, and six months later it was like someone just flipped a switch and their brains shut off.
Why innovate or work hard when it doesn't matter because you won't be rewarded?It's interesting but someone at that same agency must agree with me, because now they're increasing the number of consultants and contractors instead of replacing employees who retire.
Why?1. Once the contract/project is done, the contractor can be released.2.
Consultants are cheaper in the long run because they don't have the salary, health care costs, etc.
associated with employees.3.
Consultants employed by this organization turn in products that are on time and of higher quality than the work done by employees.Anyway, just wanted to provide a different view of the union.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895689</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>tom17</author>
	<datestamp>1256737800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd love to do this. I have a pretty keen interest and strong grounding in basic electronics (plenty advanced enough for, say, residential). When I landed in Canada a few years ago, I pretty much learnt the electrical code cover to cover, it is easy. I was planning on taking the exam and getting my licence.
</p><p>
Then I saw the requirement of an insane amount of 'apprentice hours' needed to get the licence, not just the exam. It would mean leaving my well paid IT job and living on peanuts for 4-5 years. It's something we, as a family, just cannot afford right now. If I was to try to get the apprentice hours on evenings &amp; weekends, 1. I would have no time with my family and 2. it would take me way too long. I am already 36<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p><p>
If only there was a way round it. I would love to do electrical contracting (I think)</p><p>
Tom...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd love to do this .
I have a pretty keen interest and strong grounding in basic electronics ( plenty advanced enough for , say , residential ) .
When I landed in Canada a few years ago , I pretty much learnt the electrical code cover to cover , it is easy .
I was planning on taking the exam and getting my licence .
Then I saw the requirement of an insane amount of 'apprentice hours ' needed to get the licence , not just the exam .
It would mean leaving my well paid IT job and living on peanuts for 4-5 years .
It 's something we , as a family , just can not afford right now .
If I was to try to get the apprentice hours on evenings &amp; weekends , 1 .
I would have no time with my family and 2. it would take me way too long .
I am already 36 : ( If only there was a way round it .
I would love to do electrical contracting ( I think ) Tom.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd love to do this.
I have a pretty keen interest and strong grounding in basic electronics (plenty advanced enough for, say, residential).
When I landed in Canada a few years ago, I pretty much learnt the electrical code cover to cover, it is easy.
I was planning on taking the exam and getting my licence.
Then I saw the requirement of an insane amount of 'apprentice hours' needed to get the licence, not just the exam.
It would mean leaving my well paid IT job and living on peanuts for 4-5 years.
It's something we, as a family, just cannot afford right now.
If I was to try to get the apprentice hours on evenings &amp; weekends, 1.
I would have no time with my family and 2. it would take me way too long.
I am already 36 :(
If only there was a way round it.
I would love to do electrical contracting (I think)
Tom...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893513</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894485</id>
	<title>its like not drinking a beer while being an alcaho</title>
	<author>lord3nd3r</author>
	<datestamp>1256725560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To put it simply, It is like being an alcoholic that cant drink.

I am used to working at data centers, and web hosting companies.  As of this moment, I am a server/waiter at a restaurant in my town. (altho I am the IT guy there for all of the staff that has any issues with their  machines)

The pay is okay, but nothing to what I was getting paid when I was in an actual IT field.

anybody need a remote admin?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) I work for cheap<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</htmltext>
<tokenext>To put it simply , It is like being an alcoholic that cant drink .
I am used to working at data centers , and web hosting companies .
As of this moment , I am a server/waiter at a restaurant in my town .
( altho I am the IT guy there for all of the staff that has any issues with their machines ) The pay is okay , but nothing to what I was getting paid when I was in an actual IT field .
anybody need a remote admin ?
: ) I work for cheap : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To put it simply, It is like being an alcoholic that cant drink.
I am used to working at data centers, and web hosting companies.
As of this moment, I am a server/waiter at a restaurant in my town.
(altho I am the IT guy there for all of the staff that has any issues with their  machines)

The pay is okay, but nothing to what I was getting paid when I was in an actual IT field.
anybody need a remote admin?
:) I work for cheap :P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29904829</id>
	<title>Re:Very timely...</title>
	<author>Jon-ZA</author>
	<datestamp>1256737020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Luckily I got a severance package which is going towards this trip, combine that with everything that I have already sold, as in sold everything in my Condo, and you have the makings of some semblance of financial security that will last me at least 6 months. I don't care much for the status that comes with awesome home entertainment equipment like big flat-screens etc  When I get back there will be something better to get, as soon as I released my grip on the importance and value of worldly possessions a lot of very good things started happening.  For me thing's changed about 2 years ago when my Dad died from Cancer.  Suddenly I started putting life into perspective.  I realized that it's not worth waiting until I'm 65 to retire and 'enjoy' myself.  Rather, I'm going to be taking these 'mini-retirements' throughout life and enjoy as much as I can.  This first trip to Africa is going to be trip #1 of many.

It's amazing how the world works in your favor as soon as you make a big decision.  I feel an absolute ton of gratitude for my place in the world right now and for the experiences I've had thus far that have brought me to this point in life and I'm looking forward to what is yet to come.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Luckily I got a severance package which is going towards this trip , combine that with everything that I have already sold , as in sold everything in my Condo , and you have the makings of some semblance of financial security that will last me at least 6 months .
I do n't care much for the status that comes with awesome home entertainment equipment like big flat-screens etc When I get back there will be something better to get , as soon as I released my grip on the importance and value of worldly possessions a lot of very good things started happening .
For me thing 's changed about 2 years ago when my Dad died from Cancer .
Suddenly I started putting life into perspective .
I realized that it 's not worth waiting until I 'm 65 to retire and 'enjoy ' myself .
Rather , I 'm going to be taking these 'mini-retirements ' throughout life and enjoy as much as I can .
This first trip to Africa is going to be trip # 1 of many .
It 's amazing how the world works in your favor as soon as you make a big decision .
I feel an absolute ton of gratitude for my place in the world right now and for the experiences I 've had thus far that have brought me to this point in life and I 'm looking forward to what is yet to come .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Luckily I got a severance package which is going towards this trip, combine that with everything that I have already sold, as in sold everything in my Condo, and you have the makings of some semblance of financial security that will last me at least 6 months.
I don't care much for the status that comes with awesome home entertainment equipment like big flat-screens etc  When I get back there will be something better to get, as soon as I released my grip on the importance and value of worldly possessions a lot of very good things started happening.
For me thing's changed about 2 years ago when my Dad died from Cancer.
Suddenly I started putting life into perspective.
I realized that it's not worth waiting until I'm 65 to retire and 'enjoy' myself.
Rather, I'm going to be taking these 'mini-retirements' throughout life and enjoy as much as I can.
This first trip to Africa is going to be trip #1 of many.
It's amazing how the world works in your favor as soon as you make a big decision.
I feel an absolute ton of gratitude for my place in the world right now and for the experiences I've had thus far that have brought me to this point in life and I'm looking forward to what is yet to come.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895379</id>
	<title>Re:A Change is as Good as a Rest</title>
	<author>Yvanhoe</author>
	<datestamp>1256735220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What is the name of the organization you work for ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What is the name of the organization you work for ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is the name of the organization you work for ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894699</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256728680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I realised a long time ago in IT that I could take the crap and work with people who just wanted to work me like a dog, or stand up for myself, be confident in interviews and tell them exactly what I expected out of the job as well. I was lucky in that I had some savings and could 'afford' to be a bit picky, and I also decided that if this approach didn't work I would look at changing careers.</p><p>It paid off, and now I'm working for a startup who actually just let me get on with my job, trust my opinions and seem genuinely grateful for the work I do for them. Too many of the people I know who still work for Telecomms and Finacial Businesses (the worst offenders in my experience) are petrified of ever making a stand, they are bullied into believing that outside their cubicles nobody wants them.</p><p>Maybe I got lucky, but been honest with my employers and telling them I won't take crap, and that I expect to do the job they inteviewed me for worked.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I realised a long time ago in IT that I could take the crap and work with people who just wanted to work me like a dog , or stand up for myself , be confident in interviews and tell them exactly what I expected out of the job as well .
I was lucky in that I had some savings and could 'afford ' to be a bit picky , and I also decided that if this approach did n't work I would look at changing careers.It paid off , and now I 'm working for a startup who actually just let me get on with my job , trust my opinions and seem genuinely grateful for the work I do for them .
Too many of the people I know who still work for Telecomms and Finacial Businesses ( the worst offenders in my experience ) are petrified of ever making a stand , they are bullied into believing that outside their cubicles nobody wants them.Maybe I got lucky , but been honest with my employers and telling them I wo n't take crap , and that I expect to do the job they inteviewed me for worked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I realised a long time ago in IT that I could take the crap and work with people who just wanted to work me like a dog, or stand up for myself, be confident in interviews and tell them exactly what I expected out of the job as well.
I was lucky in that I had some savings and could 'afford' to be a bit picky, and I also decided that if this approach didn't work I would look at changing careers.It paid off, and now I'm working for a startup who actually just let me get on with my job, trust my opinions and seem genuinely grateful for the work I do for them.
Too many of the people I know who still work for Telecomms and Finacial Businesses (the worst offenders in my experience) are petrified of ever making a stand, they are bullied into believing that outside their cubicles nobody wants them.Maybe I got lucky, but been honest with my employers and telling them I won't take crap, and that I expect to do the job they inteviewed me for worked.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894813</id>
	<title>I don't think IT is the problem - Its the people</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256729940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After working in IT for over 10 years now its become apparent that there are far to many people that are their own worse enemy. When I was working as a permie all we used to bitch about was how much this person gets paid, or how much contractors earnt. I soon realised that better jobs are available but no-one is going to hand them to you on a plate. I starting moving jobs looking for bigger and better challenges. I finally made the move to contracting 3 years ago and I will not be looking back. Sure, there are a lack of jobs at the moment, but if you have the right skills and the right mind set (and don't mind working for peanuts sometimes) you will always find work. I honestly think that too many people are scared to move from their comfy little holes and take a look around and what is actually out there. I lost a lot of friends (or people who I thought were friends) when I started to earn more money and progress up the tree. They didn't like it. I would tell them that if they didn't like their job they should move and find another one, but why should they. Its far easier to sit there and moan about how crap working in IT is. It's no different from any other job. If you don't activley try and improve you skills you wont advance and if you dont advance you'll become stuck in your ways and bitter.</p><p>Personally I like working in IT. As soon as I get bored, I will try and find something else to work on that will challenge me. I don't expect to work in IT forever, but it will certainly help me find whatever else I want to do when I decide to stop doing this.</p><p>Bottom line, IT is the same as any other job. If you don't work at it you wont get anywhere and if you don't get anywhere you will become bitter about your job and industry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After working in IT for over 10 years now its become apparent that there are far to many people that are their own worse enemy .
When I was working as a permie all we used to bitch about was how much this person gets paid , or how much contractors earnt .
I soon realised that better jobs are available but no-one is going to hand them to you on a plate .
I starting moving jobs looking for bigger and better challenges .
I finally made the move to contracting 3 years ago and I will not be looking back .
Sure , there are a lack of jobs at the moment , but if you have the right skills and the right mind set ( and do n't mind working for peanuts sometimes ) you will always find work .
I honestly think that too many people are scared to move from their comfy little holes and take a look around and what is actually out there .
I lost a lot of friends ( or people who I thought were friends ) when I started to earn more money and progress up the tree .
They did n't like it .
I would tell them that if they did n't like their job they should move and find another one , but why should they .
Its far easier to sit there and moan about how crap working in IT is .
It 's no different from any other job .
If you do n't activley try and improve you skills you wont advance and if you dont advance you 'll become stuck in your ways and bitter.Personally I like working in IT .
As soon as I get bored , I will try and find something else to work on that will challenge me .
I do n't expect to work in IT forever , but it will certainly help me find whatever else I want to do when I decide to stop doing this.Bottom line , IT is the same as any other job .
If you do n't work at it you wont get anywhere and if you do n't get anywhere you will become bitter about your job and industry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After working in IT for over 10 years now its become apparent that there are far to many people that are their own worse enemy.
When I was working as a permie all we used to bitch about was how much this person gets paid, or how much contractors earnt.
I soon realised that better jobs are available but no-one is going to hand them to you on a plate.
I starting moving jobs looking for bigger and better challenges.
I finally made the move to contracting 3 years ago and I will not be looking back.
Sure, there are a lack of jobs at the moment, but if you have the right skills and the right mind set (and don't mind working for peanuts sometimes) you will always find work.
I honestly think that too many people are scared to move from their comfy little holes and take a look around and what is actually out there.
I lost a lot of friends (or people who I thought were friends) when I started to earn more money and progress up the tree.
They didn't like it.
I would tell them that if they didn't like their job they should move and find another one, but why should they.
Its far easier to sit there and moan about how crap working in IT is.
It's no different from any other job.
If you don't activley try and improve you skills you wont advance and if you dont advance you'll become stuck in your ways and bitter.Personally I like working in IT.
As soon as I get bored, I will try and find something else to work on that will challenge me.
I don't expect to work in IT forever, but it will certainly help me find whatever else I want to do when I decide to stop doing this.Bottom line, IT is the same as any other job.
If you don't work at it you wont get anywhere and if you don't get anywhere you will become bitter about your job and industry.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896795</id>
	<title>I did it, not sure if it was a good idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256742780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I left IT in 2002 and went back into print design. Years later, I am making half the $$ that my IT colleagues make. Although I like my current job moderately more than the one I left, I kick myself twice a month for not sticking it out. I live in America and it's all about the money.</p><p>I say find a good psychologist and keep your IT job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I left IT in 2002 and went back into print design .
Years later , I am making half the $ $ that my IT colleagues make .
Although I like my current job moderately more than the one I left , I kick myself twice a month for not sticking it out .
I live in America and it 's all about the money.I say find a good psychologist and keep your IT job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I left IT in 2002 and went back into print design.
Years later, I am making half the $$ that my IT colleagues make.
Although I like my current job moderately more than the one I left, I kick myself twice a month for not sticking it out.
I live in America and it's all about the money.I say find a good psychologist and keep your IT job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895493</id>
	<title>Re:Very timely...</title>
	<author>Spazztastic</author>
	<datestamp>1256736180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Best of luck to you. Glad to see you found a light at the end of the tunnel of cube farms.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Best of luck to you .
Glad to see you found a light at the end of the tunnel of cube farms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Best of luck to you.
Glad to see you found a light at the end of the tunnel of cube farms.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898471</id>
	<title>been there, done that, stopped looking back</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256749440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I spent two decades as a network/pc tech and a systems administrator. When the time came to look around again, I was depressed by the thought of going through the job search, rolling the dice, settling in, performing triage and rebuilding, and then waiting to see how much management would allow to be done right in the long run. In my mind, it was the prospect of going somewhere else, doing the same things again, and spinning my wheels for a few years while I discovered which ways I'd be thwarted this time.</p><p>For background, I started off in the military (US Navy) and then transitioned to military/defense contractor (NAVSEA), then to civilian government contractor (USAID/STATE), and then I went corporate. I worked for a law firm, mistook the frying pan for the fire and jumped into the fire, went to work in a drug lab (a pre-clinical drug-development facility), was treated worse than the lab animals, found a K Street (Washington, DC) law firm with a casual dress code, and went back to working for lawyers. After about 5 years, I realized it was time to leave, and I no longer had much interest. Absent a carte-blanche startup opportunity, I walked away. Not the American Beauty deal, but I got 18 months of COBRA paid for, and continuing retirement plan contributions for the same term.</p><p>I bought the farm. Mortgaged my house, bought a 10-acre farm in West Virginia, and renovated. When complete, I sold the old house and decamped. Now, I grow peppers and make hot sauce. I keep bees and pack honey. I do what I want, when I want, and I answer to me. The farm's paid for, living expenses are minimal, and my retirement funds are intact. I'm a packrat, and I have a lifetime of collected stuff that's easily sold on eBay as needed. Even with medical expenses, I still have a positive cash flow.</p><p>There are many ways to do it. One of the easiest is to flee the big city for the middle of nowhere. My new place cost 1/4 of the old one, the new house is 20\% bigger, and I have 80x more land. The trick may be funding the transition. I was lucky, my old house was paid for and I could borrow against it so the new place wouldn't have a mortgage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I spent two decades as a network/pc tech and a systems administrator .
When the time came to look around again , I was depressed by the thought of going through the job search , rolling the dice , settling in , performing triage and rebuilding , and then waiting to see how much management would allow to be done right in the long run .
In my mind , it was the prospect of going somewhere else , doing the same things again , and spinning my wheels for a few years while I discovered which ways I 'd be thwarted this time.For background , I started off in the military ( US Navy ) and then transitioned to military/defense contractor ( NAVSEA ) , then to civilian government contractor ( USAID/STATE ) , and then I went corporate .
I worked for a law firm , mistook the frying pan for the fire and jumped into the fire , went to work in a drug lab ( a pre-clinical drug-development facility ) , was treated worse than the lab animals , found a K Street ( Washington , DC ) law firm with a casual dress code , and went back to working for lawyers .
After about 5 years , I realized it was time to leave , and I no longer had much interest .
Absent a carte-blanche startup opportunity , I walked away .
Not the American Beauty deal , but I got 18 months of COBRA paid for , and continuing retirement plan contributions for the same term.I bought the farm .
Mortgaged my house , bought a 10-acre farm in West Virginia , and renovated .
When complete , I sold the old house and decamped .
Now , I grow peppers and make hot sauce .
I keep bees and pack honey .
I do what I want , when I want , and I answer to me .
The farm 's paid for , living expenses are minimal , and my retirement funds are intact .
I 'm a packrat , and I have a lifetime of collected stuff that 's easily sold on eBay as needed .
Even with medical expenses , I still have a positive cash flow.There are many ways to do it .
One of the easiest is to flee the big city for the middle of nowhere .
My new place cost 1/4 of the old one , the new house is 20 \ % bigger , and I have 80x more land .
The trick may be funding the transition .
I was lucky , my old house was paid for and I could borrow against it so the new place would n't have a mortgage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I spent two decades as a network/pc tech and a systems administrator.
When the time came to look around again, I was depressed by the thought of going through the job search, rolling the dice, settling in, performing triage and rebuilding, and then waiting to see how much management would allow to be done right in the long run.
In my mind, it was the prospect of going somewhere else, doing the same things again, and spinning my wheels for a few years while I discovered which ways I'd be thwarted this time.For background, I started off in the military (US Navy) and then transitioned to military/defense contractor (NAVSEA), then to civilian government contractor (USAID/STATE), and then I went corporate.
I worked for a law firm, mistook the frying pan for the fire and jumped into the fire, went to work in a drug lab (a pre-clinical drug-development facility), was treated worse than the lab animals, found a K Street (Washington, DC) law firm with a casual dress code, and went back to working for lawyers.
After about 5 years, I realized it was time to leave, and I no longer had much interest.
Absent a carte-blanche startup opportunity, I walked away.
Not the American Beauty deal, but I got 18 months of COBRA paid for, and continuing retirement plan contributions for the same term.I bought the farm.
Mortgaged my house, bought a 10-acre farm in West Virginia, and renovated.
When complete, I sold the old house and decamped.
Now, I grow peppers and make hot sauce.
I keep bees and pack honey.
I do what I want, when I want, and I answer to me.
The farm's paid for, living expenses are minimal, and my retirement funds are intact.
I'm a packrat, and I have a lifetime of collected stuff that's easily sold on eBay as needed.
Even with medical expenses, I still have a positive cash flow.There are many ways to do it.
One of the easiest is to flee the big city for the middle of nowhere.
My new place cost 1/4 of the old one, the new house is 20\% bigger, and I have 80x more land.
The trick may be funding the transition.
I was lucky, my old house was paid for and I could borrow against it so the new place wouldn't have a mortgage.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29901537</id>
	<title>Re:A Change is as Good as a Rest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256762400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Retard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Retard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Retard.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895589</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Kleiba</author>
	<datestamp>1256736840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; This all sounds like a troll but it's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the<br>&gt; "intelligent" folks are working as slaves.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; How did it come to this?</p><p>Perhaps the idiots' definition of "intelligent" is different from yours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; This all sounds like a troll but it 's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the &gt; " intelligent " folks are working as slaves. &gt; &gt; How did it come to this ? Perhaps the idiots ' definition of " intelligent " is different from yours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; This all sounds like a troll but it's more bitterness seeing complete idiots making 6 and 7 figure salaries while the&gt; "intelligent" folks are working as slaves.&gt;&gt; How did it come to this?Perhaps the idiots' definition of "intelligent" is different from yours.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895385</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>smchris</author>
	<datestamp>1256735340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it helps for me to be older to agree with you.  A lot of IT graduated from the Reagan era propaganda schools in which libertarian capitalism does everything right and nothing wrong.  "I'm working for the union" is something I expect to hear sung in IT immediately before complete social collapse.</p><p>Does that make IT \_special\_?  On the contrary, it makes IT as brainwashed as pink collar workers.  The demographic shift from rural independent farmers and small town union workers to non-union office jobs is one of the defining broad strokes of change in the second half of the 20th century.  Yes, even before NAFTA.  Whether you're talking Lagos, Nigeria, or Detroit and Silicon Valley.  I doubt if too many IT people see it that way because they are techies, but I was one of those humanities and social sciences liberal arts grads who could just "fall into {-i 'it'}" in the 80s when anyone who had a knack for a dual-floppy PC was valuable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it helps for me to be older to agree with you .
A lot of IT graduated from the Reagan era propaganda schools in which libertarian capitalism does everything right and nothing wrong .
" I 'm working for the union " is something I expect to hear sung in IT immediately before complete social collapse.Does that make IT \ _special \ _ ?
On the contrary , it makes IT as brainwashed as pink collar workers .
The demographic shift from rural independent farmers and small town union workers to non-union office jobs is one of the defining broad strokes of change in the second half of the 20th century .
Yes , even before NAFTA .
Whether you 're talking Lagos , Nigeria , or Detroit and Silicon Valley .
I doubt if too many IT people see it that way because they are techies , but I was one of those humanities and social sciences liberal arts grads who could just " fall into { -i 'it ' } " in the 80s when anyone who had a knack for a dual-floppy PC was valuable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it helps for me to be older to agree with you.
A lot of IT graduated from the Reagan era propaganda schools in which libertarian capitalism does everything right and nothing wrong.
"I'm working for the union" is something I expect to hear sung in IT immediately before complete social collapse.Does that make IT \_special\_?
On the contrary, it makes IT as brainwashed as pink collar workers.
The demographic shift from rural independent farmers and small town union workers to non-union office jobs is one of the defining broad strokes of change in the second half of the 20th century.
Yes, even before NAFTA.
Whether you're talking Lagos, Nigeria, or Detroit and Silicon Valley.
I doubt if too many IT people see it that way because they are techies, but I was one of those humanities and social sciences liberal arts grads who could just "fall into {-i 'it'}" in the 80s when anyone who had a knack for a dual-floppy PC was valuable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894847</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>benedictaddis</author>
	<datestamp>1256730420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"2 mile DRIVE to work"

Don't you mean half hour walk or ten minute cycle?</htmltext>
<tokenext>" 2 mile DRIVE to work " Do n't you mean half hour walk or ten minute cycle ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"2 mile DRIVE to work"

Don't you mean half hour walk or ten minute cycle?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893785</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29901965</id>
	<title>Dual Class!</title>
	<author>Cedem</author>
	<datestamp>1256721120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Dual Class!

Seriously  pick a second line of work that your interested (Marketing, Law, Medical, Engineering, whatever) and, go get a job with a small biz, and do both.

One of the main reasons I've been able to avoid the axman is because I balance my Engineering with my IT duties.  Small firms cant afford to have a dedicated IT staff, but being able to have an employee that can do their main line of business AND IT is near priceless.

And the added perk in my situation is that because I am working with a number of fellow engineers I can avoid most of the helpdesk nightmares because they are all intelligent people.  Most of my IT tasks are system admin related.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dual Class !
Seriously pick a second line of work that your interested ( Marketing , Law , Medical , Engineering , whatever ) and , go get a job with a small biz , and do both .
One of the main reasons I 've been able to avoid the axman is because I balance my Engineering with my IT duties .
Small firms cant afford to have a dedicated IT staff , but being able to have an employee that can do their main line of business AND IT is near priceless .
And the added perk in my situation is that because I am working with a number of fellow engineers I can avoid most of the helpdesk nightmares because they are all intelligent people .
Most of my IT tasks are system admin related .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dual Class!
Seriously  pick a second line of work that your interested (Marketing, Law, Medical, Engineering, whatever) and, go get a job with a small biz, and do both.
One of the main reasons I've been able to avoid the axman is because I balance my Engineering with my IT duties.
Small firms cant afford to have a dedicated IT staff, but being able to have an employee that can do their main line of business AND IT is near priceless.
And the added perk in my situation is that because I am working with a number of fellow engineers I can avoid most of the helpdesk nightmares because they are all intelligent people.
Most of my IT tasks are system admin related.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898133</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>georgemoot</author>
	<datestamp>1256747940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The teacher's union of Toledo, Ohio has for years had a "peer review" policy where they would meet annually to discuss &amp; potentially dismiss teachers that have been deemed "incompetent".  This isn't the school board firing teachers... it's the teacher's union itself.
<br> <br>
<a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91327130" title="npr.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91327130</a> [npr.org]
<br> <br>
This, I think, is an example of a union doing exactly what it should be doing:  Protecting it's valued members and getting rid of the dead weight.  With a system in place (which is largely supported by the union members) to keep a shared level of quality among members, I would think that their bargaining power when it comes to discussing benefits &amp; pay could be largely deserved.
<br> <br>
If more unions took it upon themselves to actively resist providing shelter to the incompetent, I think the general impression of unions wouldn't be nearly as negative.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The teacher 's union of Toledo , Ohio has for years had a " peer review " policy where they would meet annually to discuss &amp; potentially dismiss teachers that have been deemed " incompetent " .
This is n't the school board firing teachers... it 's the teacher 's union itself .
http : //www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php ? storyId = 91327130 [ npr.org ] This , I think , is an example of a union doing exactly what it should be doing : Protecting it 's valued members and getting rid of the dead weight .
With a system in place ( which is largely supported by the union members ) to keep a shared level of quality among members , I would think that their bargaining power when it comes to discussing benefits &amp; pay could be largely deserved .
If more unions took it upon themselves to actively resist providing shelter to the incompetent , I think the general impression of unions would n't be nearly as negative .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The teacher's union of Toledo, Ohio has for years had a "peer review" policy where they would meet annually to discuss &amp; potentially dismiss teachers that have been deemed "incompetent".
This isn't the school board firing teachers... it's the teacher's union itself.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91327130 [npr.org]
 
This, I think, is an example of a union doing exactly what it should be doing:  Protecting it's valued members and getting rid of the dead weight.
With a system in place (which is largely supported by the union members) to keep a shared level of quality among members, I would think that their bargaining power when it comes to discussing benefits &amp; pay could be largely deserved.
If more unions took it upon themselves to actively resist providing shelter to the incompetent, I think the general impression of unions wouldn't be nearly as negative.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29901031</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256760000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's one bit of this story that I don't understand: where did you find a company where bosses actually know good workers from bad workers? My experience in corporate America, for ten years now, is that those who deliver are the first ones to go. Wrote a product from scratch, that bagged a pile of money for the company? Here's a nice letter of appreciation, and by the way, you're fired. Landed a valuable patent for the company? Very nice, we'll put your name on the wall, and good luck in your next job.</p><p>I've watched this happen consistently, for over a decade. I've done little but stare at my screen thinking "I wish I were dead" for the last six months, and thereby survived two layoffs. All the people who were being productive were let go. I know from things like Dilbert that my experience is far from unusual. So... did you find the one company on Earth with managers that understand good work from bad work? Or did you merely become a good bureaucrat, willing to spend your days on petty politics and byzantine process?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's one bit of this story that I do n't understand : where did you find a company where bosses actually know good workers from bad workers ?
My experience in corporate America , for ten years now , is that those who deliver are the first ones to go .
Wrote a product from scratch , that bagged a pile of money for the company ?
Here 's a nice letter of appreciation , and by the way , you 're fired .
Landed a valuable patent for the company ?
Very nice , we 'll put your name on the wall , and good luck in your next job.I 've watched this happen consistently , for over a decade .
I 've done little but stare at my screen thinking " I wish I were dead " for the last six months , and thereby survived two layoffs .
All the people who were being productive were let go .
I know from things like Dilbert that my experience is far from unusual .
So... did you find the one company on Earth with managers that understand good work from bad work ?
Or did you merely become a good bureaucrat , willing to spend your days on petty politics and byzantine process ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's one bit of this story that I don't understand: where did you find a company where bosses actually know good workers from bad workers?
My experience in corporate America, for ten years now, is that those who deliver are the first ones to go.
Wrote a product from scratch, that bagged a pile of money for the company?
Here's a nice letter of appreciation, and by the way, you're fired.
Landed a valuable patent for the company?
Very nice, we'll put your name on the wall, and good luck in your next job.I've watched this happen consistently, for over a decade.
I've done little but stare at my screen thinking "I wish I were dead" for the last six months, and thereby survived two layoffs.
All the people who were being productive were let go.
I know from things like Dilbert that my experience is far from unusual.
So... did you find the one company on Earth with managers that understand good work from bad work?
Or did you merely become a good bureaucrat, willing to spend your days on petty politics and byzantine process?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29910361</id>
	<title>Re:Development works for me</title>
	<author>NickGnome</author>
	<datestamp>1256831280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did tech support, SQA, sys admin, data-base analysis and design, and a little web weaving, but it all taught me that it's only software product development (especially scientific and engineering apps, but I'd like the opportunity to work with music/sound, images and video) and maintenance that keeps me energized.

</p><p>Reading some of the discussions, and looking at some of the BLS stats, I'm surprised (and a little disgusted) at how how many people are content to be body shopped, how much "IT" work (services) there is, and how little software product development employment.

</p><p>I read a story in the last couple weeks about a guy who quit programming, learned fine furniture-making and now is producing a series of how-to videos.  If I were "ept", that sounds like it would be a decent fall-back.  I really liked being able to work with CAD/CAM/CAE tools that let even me draw up a design for something and have the milling machines produce it.  But then there's another sign of the hollowing out of STEM and related fields in the USA.  One of our best machine tools companies now only produces coolants.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did tech support , SQA , sys admin , data-base analysis and design , and a little web weaving , but it all taught me that it 's only software product development ( especially scientific and engineering apps , but I 'd like the opportunity to work with music/sound , images and video ) and maintenance that keeps me energized .
Reading some of the discussions , and looking at some of the BLS stats , I 'm surprised ( and a little disgusted ) at how how many people are content to be body shopped , how much " IT " work ( services ) there is , and how little software product development employment .
I read a story in the last couple weeks about a guy who quit programming , learned fine furniture-making and now is producing a series of how-to videos .
If I were " ept " , that sounds like it would be a decent fall-back .
I really liked being able to work with CAD/CAM/CAE tools that let even me draw up a design for something and have the milling machines produce it .
But then there 's another sign of the hollowing out of STEM and related fields in the USA .
One of our best machine tools companies now only produces coolants .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did tech support, SQA, sys admin, data-base analysis and design, and a little web weaving, but it all taught me that it's only software product development (especially scientific and engineering apps, but I'd like the opportunity to work with music/sound, images and video) and maintenance that keeps me energized.
Reading some of the discussions, and looking at some of the BLS stats, I'm surprised (and a little disgusted) at how how many people are content to be body shopped, how much "IT" work (services) there is, and how little software product development employment.
I read a story in the last couple weeks about a guy who quit programming, learned fine furniture-making and now is producing a series of how-to videos.
If I were "ept", that sounds like it would be a decent fall-back.
I really liked being able to work with CAD/CAM/CAE tools that let even me draw up a design for something and have the milling machines produce it.
But then there's another sign of the hollowing out of STEM and related fields in the USA.
One of our best machine tools companies now only produces coolants.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894609</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256727900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unions artificially inflate wages that the market can't support.  Why do you think all the unionized jobs are fleeing this country?  It's not just greedy managers, as much as pro-union folks would like you to think that, it's also that the higher prices people have to pay for union-produced products are not affordable by the majority of potential customers.  Unions had their place once, but that time is long since past, especially since many labor unions would rather see a company go under than cut pay or benefits. Unions are supposed to protect the workers, not the union itself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unions artificially inflate wages that the market ca n't support .
Why do you think all the unionized jobs are fleeing this country ?
It 's not just greedy managers , as much as pro-union folks would like you to think that , it 's also that the higher prices people have to pay for union-produced products are not affordable by the majority of potential customers .
Unions had their place once , but that time is long since past , especially since many labor unions would rather see a company go under than cut pay or benefits .
Unions are supposed to protect the workers , not the union itself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unions artificially inflate wages that the market can't support.
Why do you think all the unionized jobs are fleeing this country?
It's not just greedy managers, as much as pro-union folks would like you to think that, it's also that the higher prices people have to pay for union-produced products are not affordable by the majority of potential customers.
Unions had their place once, but that time is long since past, especially since many labor unions would rather see a company go under than cut pay or benefits.
Unions are supposed to protect the workers, not the union itself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895613</id>
	<title>Back to School</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256737080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One thing many people in IT have in common is their ability to learn new things quickly and fly be the seat of their pants. I am maintaining my IT job while going back to school to make myself more marketable in areas that I want to ultimately spend the rest of my life doing. It can be hard at times to look at the long hours I spend each and every day away from my wife and kid to do this. I sometimes get a little down knowing that I could have done it right the first time through, but everyone's life takes them different places. If I hadn't clusterfarked up my first foray into education I wouldn't have the experience and wife and kid that I have now, nor the wherewithal to truly understand what it is I want to do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One thing many people in IT have in common is their ability to learn new things quickly and fly be the seat of their pants .
I am maintaining my IT job while going back to school to make myself more marketable in areas that I want to ultimately spend the rest of my life doing .
It can be hard at times to look at the long hours I spend each and every day away from my wife and kid to do this .
I sometimes get a little down knowing that I could have done it right the first time through , but everyone 's life takes them different places .
If I had n't clusterfarked up my first foray into education I would n't have the experience and wife and kid that I have now , nor the wherewithal to truly understand what it is I want to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One thing many people in IT have in common is their ability to learn new things quickly and fly be the seat of their pants.
I am maintaining my IT job while going back to school to make myself more marketable in areas that I want to ultimately spend the rest of my life doing.
It can be hard at times to look at the long hours I spend each and every day away from my wife and kid to do this.
I sometimes get a little down knowing that I could have done it right the first time through, but everyone's life takes them different places.
If I hadn't clusterfarked up my first foray into education I wouldn't have the experience and wife and kid that I have now, nor the wherewithal to truly understand what it is I want to do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895769</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>drsmithy</author>
	<datestamp>1256738220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Please don't ever SUGGEST nursing to people, unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others even on their worst days.</i>That is to say, unless they're pretty much the antithesis of the average Slashdotter.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please do n't ever SUGGEST nursing to people , unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion , patience , and willingness to help others even on their worst days.That is to say , unless they 're pretty much the antithesis of the average Slashdotter .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Please don't ever SUGGEST nursing to people, unless they demonstrate a genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others even on their worst days.That is to say, unless they're pretty much the antithesis of the average Slashdotter.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895793</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>backwardMechanic</author>
	<datestamp>1256738340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's a peculiar comment from a country where the official government and the opposition do little for workers rights, while bailing large banks for whatever they ask. In the 70's the unions had too much power, not now. As for thinking that a union (a political organisation) has no place commenting on politics, I can't see your logic.

RM lost the Amazon contract because they have repeatedly provided bad service. The irony is that RM have consistently moaned about the internet killing their business, while ignoring the boom in home shopping. Maybe it's time for a complete change of management.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a peculiar comment from a country where the official government and the opposition do little for workers rights , while bailing large banks for whatever they ask .
In the 70 's the unions had too much power , not now .
As for thinking that a union ( a political organisation ) has no place commenting on politics , I ca n't see your logic .
RM lost the Amazon contract because they have repeatedly provided bad service .
The irony is that RM have consistently moaned about the internet killing their business , while ignoring the boom in home shopping .
Maybe it 's time for a complete change of management .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a peculiar comment from a country where the official government and the opposition do little for workers rights, while bailing large banks for whatever they ask.
In the 70's the unions had too much power, not now.
As for thinking that a union (a political organisation) has no place commenting on politics, I can't see your logic.
RM lost the Amazon contract because they have repeatedly provided bad service.
The irony is that RM have consistently moaned about the internet killing their business, while ignoring the boom in home shopping.
Maybe it's time for a complete change of management.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29920877</id>
	<title>Change ...</title>
	<author>twoHats</author>
	<datestamp>1256841900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You must change your mind grasshopper - I suggest LSD...</htmltext>
<tokenext>You must change your mind grasshopper - I suggest LSD.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You must change your mind grasshopper - I suggest LSD...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893971</id>
	<title>Advice??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256760900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Firstly, maybe it's just a crap job?  Especially in the smaller cities, you don't see a lot of quality job environment for IT folks.  Also, the downturn in the economy quickly sours employee moral - it could just be a phase.</p><p>My suggestion, if you really love IT, then find a great job working for people you actually like.  Don't be afraid to look outside the box - lots of IT jobs in many different industries.  The cushy IT jobs are typically in your wealthier industries such as telecom, some medical, banks and the like. Avoid the highly cyclical industries such as manufacturing, retail and most consumer service companies. Development, entertainment and consulting are tough work - but often rewarding as well. Of course, these are pretty loose suggestions, and there are exceptions for every rule.  I loved working in retail, hated telecom.</p><p>Whatever you do... DO NOT be afraid.   Take your time and really find your place, as you don't want to end up moving in 5 years yet again.  Interview to see if you like the PEOPLE first, then consider the work, and lastly if you like the pay.  Don't be afraid to quietly start hunting, you'll feel better and have some hope.</p><p>If you really want to move out of IT, then start meeting people in the field you want to be in.  Find out what industry is looking for, jump onto the industry forums and figure out the problems and solutions available.  If you're going to start a business, consider doing some market research, meet the local SBA business silverheads and get a feel for what happens locally, which businesses survive the startup and WHY.</p><p>You've got a paying job right now - use this time to get to know what you really want to do, research the hell out of it, and know what you're up against.  Have a plan, check it over with someone who knows.  It's better to spend a few bucks getting advice, than to squander your time (and savings) getting into something much harder than you anticipated.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Firstly , maybe it 's just a crap job ?
Especially in the smaller cities , you do n't see a lot of quality job environment for IT folks .
Also , the downturn in the economy quickly sours employee moral - it could just be a phase.My suggestion , if you really love IT , then find a great job working for people you actually like .
Do n't be afraid to look outside the box - lots of IT jobs in many different industries .
The cushy IT jobs are typically in your wealthier industries such as telecom , some medical , banks and the like .
Avoid the highly cyclical industries such as manufacturing , retail and most consumer service companies .
Development , entertainment and consulting are tough work - but often rewarding as well .
Of course , these are pretty loose suggestions , and there are exceptions for every rule .
I loved working in retail , hated telecom.Whatever you do... DO NOT be afraid .
Take your time and really find your place , as you do n't want to end up moving in 5 years yet again .
Interview to see if you like the PEOPLE first , then consider the work , and lastly if you like the pay .
Do n't be afraid to quietly start hunting , you 'll feel better and have some hope.If you really want to move out of IT , then start meeting people in the field you want to be in .
Find out what industry is looking for , jump onto the industry forums and figure out the problems and solutions available .
If you 're going to start a business , consider doing some market research , meet the local SBA business silverheads and get a feel for what happens locally , which businesses survive the startup and WHY.You 've got a paying job right now - use this time to get to know what you really want to do , research the hell out of it , and know what you 're up against .
Have a plan , check it over with someone who knows .
It 's better to spend a few bucks getting advice , than to squander your time ( and savings ) getting into something much harder than you anticipated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Firstly, maybe it's just a crap job?
Especially in the smaller cities, you don't see a lot of quality job environment for IT folks.
Also, the downturn in the economy quickly sours employee moral - it could just be a phase.My suggestion, if you really love IT, then find a great job working for people you actually like.
Don't be afraid to look outside the box - lots of IT jobs in many different industries.
The cushy IT jobs are typically in your wealthier industries such as telecom, some medical, banks and the like.
Avoid the highly cyclical industries such as manufacturing, retail and most consumer service companies.
Development, entertainment and consulting are tough work - but often rewarding as well.
Of course, these are pretty loose suggestions, and there are exceptions for every rule.
I loved working in retail, hated telecom.Whatever you do... DO NOT be afraid.
Take your time and really find your place, as you don't want to end up moving in 5 years yet again.
Interview to see if you like the PEOPLE first, then consider the work, and lastly if you like the pay.
Don't be afraid to quietly start hunting, you'll feel better and have some hope.If you really want to move out of IT, then start meeting people in the field you want to be in.
Find out what industry is looking for, jump onto the industry forums and figure out the problems and solutions available.
If you're going to start a business, consider doing some market research, meet the local SBA business silverheads and get a feel for what happens locally, which businesses survive the startup and WHY.You've got a paying job right now - use this time to get to know what you really want to do, research the hell out of it, and know what you're up against.
Have a plan, check it over with someone who knows.
It's better to spend a few bucks getting advice, than to squander your time (and savings) getting into something much harder than you anticipated.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895353</id>
	<title>be a CPA for $120 /hr and take over the world</title>
	<author>tomatobasil</author>
	<datestamp>1256734920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>CPAs work with the only thing that management cares about, which is money.
As a CPA you'd earn as much or more than a programmer/sysadmin/IT staff.
More importantly, knowing both CPA and IT puts you in a position to run your screwed up IT department,
get out of your cube in the server room and into board room. If you're halfway smart and shower
daily you probably do a better job than most existing managers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>CPAs work with the only thing that management cares about , which is money .
As a CPA you 'd earn as much or more than a programmer/sysadmin/IT staff .
More importantly , knowing both CPA and IT puts you in a position to run your screwed up IT department , get out of your cube in the server room and into board room .
If you 're halfway smart and shower daily you probably do a better job than most existing managers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CPAs work with the only thing that management cares about, which is money.
As a CPA you'd earn as much or more than a programmer/sysadmin/IT staff.
More importantly, knowing both CPA and IT puts you in a position to run your screwed up IT department,
get out of your cube in the server room and into board room.
If you're halfway smart and shower
daily you probably do a better job than most existing managers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900891</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256759340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The salaried positions, taking into account the REAL hours I worked was an income equivalent to a retail job plus a weekend part time job. Total crap. Then I tried consulting. Pay was handsome. But paychecks were slow to come. Sometimes I would have to wait a few months. A few projects I weren't even paid for.</p><p>Thats when I got fed up and swore off coding for pay. Its tempting to blame oneself, if one didnt make it to Google or another big name. But you have to remind yourself- if current markets don't want to pay for hard work, its not your fault.</p><p>I do in house care-taking now, and its way less stressful. If you dont have a burdening responsibility (ie a family to feed) and IT is not doing it for you, consider taking advantage of your freedom. There are other jobs out there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The salaried positions , taking into account the REAL hours I worked was an income equivalent to a retail job plus a weekend part time job .
Total crap .
Then I tried consulting .
Pay was handsome .
But paychecks were slow to come .
Sometimes I would have to wait a few months .
A few projects I were n't even paid for.Thats when I got fed up and swore off coding for pay .
Its tempting to blame oneself , if one didnt make it to Google or another big name .
But you have to remind yourself- if current markets do n't want to pay for hard work , its not your fault.I do in house care-taking now , and its way less stressful .
If you dont have a burdening responsibility ( ie a family to feed ) and IT is not doing it for you , consider taking advantage of your freedom .
There are other jobs out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The salaried positions, taking into account the REAL hours I worked was an income equivalent to a retail job plus a weekend part time job.
Total crap.
Then I tried consulting.
Pay was handsome.
But paychecks were slow to come.
Sometimes I would have to wait a few months.
A few projects I weren't even paid for.Thats when I got fed up and swore off coding for pay.
Its tempting to blame oneself, if one didnt make it to Google or another big name.
But you have to remind yourself- if current markets don't want to pay for hard work, its not your fault.I do in house care-taking now, and its way less stressful.
If you dont have a burdening responsibility (ie a family to feed) and IT is not doing it for you, consider taking advantage of your freedom.
There are other jobs out there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897599</id>
	<title>"Unions are great"...this's guy's an idiot...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256745900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You idiot.  Unions are not good for people...they kill competition and therefore kill the ability to complete.  It's people like you (who don't understand economics) who are stupid liberal democrats.  Go ask a person with an econ degree...you might learn something.  Just look at the US car companies and the UAW?  US car companies can't compete that's why Honda and Toyota are eating them alive.  Do you want to make the rest of US society unable to compete?  Go take a college level macro-economics class....idiot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You idiot .
Unions are not good for people...they kill competition and therefore kill the ability to complete .
It 's people like you ( who do n't understand economics ) who are stupid liberal democrats .
Go ask a person with an econ degree...you might learn something .
Just look at the US car companies and the UAW ?
US car companies ca n't compete that 's why Honda and Toyota are eating them alive .
Do you want to make the rest of US society unable to compete ?
Go take a college level macro-economics class....idiot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You idiot.
Unions are not good for people...they kill competition and therefore kill the ability to complete.
It's people like you (who don't understand economics) who are stupid liberal democrats.
Go ask a person with an econ degree...you might learn something.
Just look at the US car companies and the UAW?
US car companies can't compete that's why Honda and Toyota are eating them alive.
Do you want to make the rest of US society unable to compete?
Go take a college level macro-economics class....idiot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898743</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256750820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ohio is a frozen hell for about 20\% of the year in which only a complete asshole would try to ride a bicycle and only a suicidal asshole would try to walk. We're talking near-antarctic conditions after wind chill.</p><p>For most of the summer it's hotter than hell and it's downright bad for your health.</p><p>Not everybody has the luxury of living in a part of the world without weather, hippy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ohio is a frozen hell for about 20 \ % of the year in which only a complete asshole would try to ride a bicycle and only a suicidal asshole would try to walk .
We 're talking near-antarctic conditions after wind chill.For most of the summer it 's hotter than hell and it 's downright bad for your health.Not everybody has the luxury of living in a part of the world without weather , hippy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ohio is a frozen hell for about 20\% of the year in which only a complete asshole would try to ride a bicycle and only a suicidal asshole would try to walk.
We're talking near-antarctic conditions after wind chill.For most of the summer it's hotter than hell and it's downright bad for your health.Not everybody has the luxury of living in a part of the world without weather, hippy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894847</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896861</id>
	<title>same complaints</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256743020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't understand:</p><p>'financially and even verbally unappreciative."<br>"How did you deal with the income difference, if any? Do you find yourself dealing with people more, and if so, how did that work out?'"</p><p>What is it you want?  More money and pats on the back without having to deal with people?  You are not going to get more money in a different field without a lot of schooling.  And you are not going to have any positive interaction with people until you change your mindset of "dealing with people."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand : 'financially and even verbally unappreciative .
" " How did you deal with the income difference , if any ?
Do you find yourself dealing with people more , and if so , how did that work out ?
' " What is it you want ?
More money and pats on the back without having to deal with people ?
You are not going to get more money in a different field without a lot of schooling .
And you are not going to have any positive interaction with people until you change your mindset of " dealing with people .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand:'financially and even verbally unappreciative.
""How did you deal with the income difference, if any?
Do you find yourself dealing with people more, and if so, how did that work out?
'"What is it you want?
More money and pats on the back without having to deal with people?
You are not going to get more money in a different field without a lot of schooling.
And you are not going to have any positive interaction with people until you change your mindset of "dealing with people.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29903955</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256731740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like to play computer games, draw comics, write comics, tinker, and program in BASIC.</p><p>As far as I can tell, none of the things I like to do will get me a job that has insurance and a decent, regular (  30k / year) paycheck without being an absolute superstar in the field.</p><p>I see advice like yours all the time and as far as I can tell it is a crock.</p><p>And yes I am slowly becoming bitter about it - and I am slowly rising up the "food chain".</p><p>I just can't see a realistic way out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like to play computer games , draw comics , write comics , tinker , and program in BASIC.As far as I can tell , none of the things I like to do will get me a job that has insurance and a decent , regular ( 30k / year ) paycheck without being an absolute superstar in the field.I see advice like yours all the time and as far as I can tell it is a crock.And yes I am slowly becoming bitter about it - and I am slowly rising up the " food chain " .I just ca n't see a realistic way out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like to play computer games, draw comics, write comics, tinker, and program in BASIC.As far as I can tell, none of the things I like to do will get me a job that has insurance and a decent, regular (  30k / year) paycheck without being an absolute superstar in the field.I see advice like yours all the time and as far as I can tell it is a crock.And yes I am slowly becoming bitter about it - and I am slowly rising up the "food chain".I just can't see a realistic way out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897897</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>waspleg</author>
	<datestamp>1256747040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>yeah, it's called capitalism. tons of people work doing what they hate because they couldn't SURVIVE otherwise (or at least that's what they have convinced themselves of, and for most people it's true).</p><p>and yes that means a huge waste of talent and potential and definitely that you're having resentment taken out on you regularly; i used to work hotels, i can attest to this.</p><p>i would say this is true for 90\% of people if not more.</p><p>pro-offtopic-tip: not being a rude asshole can go a long way with any kind of customer service people</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>yeah , it 's called capitalism .
tons of people work doing what they hate because they could n't SURVIVE otherwise ( or at least that 's what they have convinced themselves of , and for most people it 's true ) .and yes that means a huge waste of talent and potential and definitely that you 're having resentment taken out on you regularly ; i used to work hotels , i can attest to this.i would say this is true for 90 \ % of people if not more.pro-offtopic-tip : not being a rude asshole can go a long way with any kind of customer service people</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yeah, it's called capitalism.
tons of people work doing what they hate because they couldn't SURVIVE otherwise (or at least that's what they have convinced themselves of, and for most people it's true).and yes that means a huge waste of talent and potential and definitely that you're having resentment taken out on you regularly; i used to work hotels, i can attest to this.i would say this is true for 90\% of people if not more.pro-offtopic-tip: not being a rude asshole can go a long way with any kind of customer service people</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894951</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>pruckelshaus</author>
	<datestamp>1256731620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I, too, am ex-Navy (9 years, YN1(SS)).  Got out, went to college (studying English) in the early 90's, and found that HTML was almost exactly like WordStar's markup, so found myself "designing" web pages in 1994.  Over time, I "retooled" myself into a programmer and DBA.  The economy tanked, I almost got laid off once and then did get laid off a year and a half later.  Somewhere In there, I decided that I needed a Plan B, so I went back to school and got an M.Ed. with teacher certification.  I am now teaching high school computer science and love it.  First off, "stress" for teachers is nothing compared to "IT stress", ifyaknowwhatimean.  The job isn't exactly difficult, especially when you're doing what you love.  It sounds hokey, but I find it really rewarding to be teaching what I see as the next generation of home-grown US IT workers -- anything I can do to keep US tech jobs from being offshored like my job was.  You're not going to turn 100\% of your students into programmers/IT people, but even if you help one kid decide that that's what they want to do, it's a great feeling.  Moreover, there just aren't enough CompSci teachers out there that actually have real-world experience; many HS CS teachers are just math or business teachers who are 1/2 step ahead of the kids and everything they know comes straight from the textbook.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I , too , am ex-Navy ( 9 years , YN1 ( SS ) ) .
Got out , went to college ( studying English ) in the early 90 's , and found that HTML was almost exactly like WordStar 's markup , so found myself " designing " web pages in 1994 .
Over time , I " retooled " myself into a programmer and DBA .
The economy tanked , I almost got laid off once and then did get laid off a year and a half later .
Somewhere In there , I decided that I needed a Plan B , so I went back to school and got an M.Ed .
with teacher certification .
I am now teaching high school computer science and love it .
First off , " stress " for teachers is nothing compared to " IT stress " , ifyaknowwhatimean .
The job is n't exactly difficult , especially when you 're doing what you love .
It sounds hokey , but I find it really rewarding to be teaching what I see as the next generation of home-grown US IT workers -- anything I can do to keep US tech jobs from being offshored like my job was .
You 're not going to turn 100 \ % of your students into programmers/IT people , but even if you help one kid decide that that 's what they want to do , it 's a great feeling .
Moreover , there just are n't enough CompSci teachers out there that actually have real-world experience ; many HS CS teachers are just math or business teachers who are 1/2 step ahead of the kids and everything they know comes straight from the textbook .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I, too, am ex-Navy (9 years, YN1(SS)).
Got out, went to college (studying English) in the early 90's, and found that HTML was almost exactly like WordStar's markup, so found myself "designing" web pages in 1994.
Over time, I "retooled" myself into a programmer and DBA.
The economy tanked, I almost got laid off once and then did get laid off a year and a half later.
Somewhere In there, I decided that I needed a Plan B, so I went back to school and got an M.Ed.
with teacher certification.
I am now teaching high school computer science and love it.
First off, "stress" for teachers is nothing compared to "IT stress", ifyaknowwhatimean.
The job isn't exactly difficult, especially when you're doing what you love.
It sounds hokey, but I find it really rewarding to be teaching what I see as the next generation of home-grown US IT workers -- anything I can do to keep US tech jobs from being offshored like my job was.
You're not going to turn 100\% of your students into programmers/IT people, but even if you help one kid decide that that's what they want to do, it's a great feeling.
Moreover, there just aren't enough CompSci teachers out there that actually have real-world experience; many HS CS teachers are just math or business teachers who are 1/2 step ahead of the kids and everything they know comes straight from the textbook.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29907773</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256809620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'...unions are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.'</p><p>This isn't an accurate description of where I work - in a University. Unison, mentioned by the poster, are very moderate. It's accepted the minute pay rise offered by management - which is fair enough given the economic situation though I'm pretty sure senior management performance bonuses will be hefty (ho ho). Most people don't want to lose their pay by going on strike. Where pay and conditions are poor (plenty of that around in the UK, lots of low paid or minimum wage jobs) you certainly do need a union. Having been in a job where each year I got poorer (my pay went up a bit less than inflation, there were no grade increments, while senior management got stunning bonuses), the only hope was the union or leaving. I left. A fair dealing hard bargaining union is a good thing for a business - it reduces staff turnover, reduces personnel costs, keeps people committed to their jobs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'...unions are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK .
'This is n't an accurate description of where I work - in a University .
Unison , mentioned by the poster , are very moderate .
It 's accepted the minute pay rise offered by management - which is fair enough given the economic situation though I 'm pretty sure senior management performance bonuses will be hefty ( ho ho ) .
Most people do n't want to lose their pay by going on strike .
Where pay and conditions are poor ( plenty of that around in the UK , lots of low paid or minimum wage jobs ) you certainly do need a union .
Having been in a job where each year I got poorer ( my pay went up a bit less than inflation , there were no grade increments , while senior management got stunning bonuses ) , the only hope was the union or leaving .
I left .
A fair dealing hard bargaining union is a good thing for a business - it reduces staff turnover , reduces personnel costs , keeps people committed to their jobs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'...unions are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.
'This isn't an accurate description of where I work - in a University.
Unison, mentioned by the poster, are very moderate.
It's accepted the minute pay rise offered by management - which is fair enough given the economic situation though I'm pretty sure senior management performance bonuses will be hefty (ho ho).
Most people don't want to lose their pay by going on strike.
Where pay and conditions are poor (plenty of that around in the UK, lots of low paid or minimum wage jobs) you certainly do need a union.
Having been in a job where each year I got poorer (my pay went up a bit less than inflation, there were no grade increments, while senior management got stunning bonuses), the only hope was the union or leaving.
I left.
A fair dealing hard bargaining union is a good thing for a business - it reduces staff turnover, reduces personnel costs, keeps people committed to their jobs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897673</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>EvilBudMan</author>
	<datestamp>1256746260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I understand your thinking. I did something similar around the same time. I guess it's age kicking in, but right now I'm real grumpy about the overall state of the world economy now that I see many that know how to fix things but no one doing it. This ain't just in IT, it's everywhere now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I understand your thinking .
I did something similar around the same time .
I guess it 's age kicking in , but right now I 'm real grumpy about the overall state of the world economy now that I see many that know how to fix things but no one doing it .
This ai n't just in IT , it 's everywhere now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I understand your thinking.
I did something similar around the same time.
I guess it's age kicking in, but right now I'm real grumpy about the overall state of the world economy now that I see many that know how to fix things but no one doing it.
This ain't just in IT, it's everywhere now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894565</id>
	<title>I hear you, brother.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256727300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think I'm just about ready to up stumps and join the police force. It's something I've often considered during the bad times over the years. But I'm getting the urge even now, during what is a good time for me. Guess I feel I gotta give it a shot before I get too old and start falling apart (even more)..</p><p>And I've come to realise that all the fun that I can have at work as a coder, I can still have in my own free time, without all the rubbish that goes on at work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think I 'm just about ready to up stumps and join the police force .
It 's something I 've often considered during the bad times over the years .
But I 'm getting the urge even now , during what is a good time for me .
Guess I feel I got ta give it a shot before I get too old and start falling apart ( even more ) ..And I 've come to realise that all the fun that I can have at work as a coder , I can still have in my own free time , without all the rubbish that goes on at work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think I'm just about ready to up stumps and join the police force.
It's something I've often considered during the bad times over the years.
But I'm getting the urge even now, during what is a good time for me.
Guess I feel I gotta give it a shot before I get too old and start falling apart (even more)..And I've come to realise that all the fun that I can have at work as a coder, I can still have in my own free time, without all the rubbish that goes on at work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29906097</id>
	<title>Re:Why not Farming itself?</title>
	<author>Lunzo</author>
	<datestamp>1256746320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now that's what I call job satisfaction!</p><p>P.S. Are you from New Zealand?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now that 's what I call job satisfaction ! P.S .
Are you from New Zealand ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now that's what I call job satisfaction!P.S.
Are you from New Zealand?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894669</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895785</id>
	<title>From IT to Psych</title>
	<author>DeafScribe</author>
	<datestamp>1256738280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did web development from '96 to early 2001. Started as a freelancer in Florida, then temp and perm work in Washington, D.C. Money was good, respect was widespread, temping gave me plenty of time to travel. Good times.</p><p>Then the dot.com crash hit. I spent the following year applying to 500 different jobs. Got a few nibbles, a few interviews, but no bites. I threw in the towel and went to work as, basically, an orderly at a psychiatric care center.</p><p>We were chronically short-staffed at the outset, so there was all the overtime we could handle and then some. The pay wasn't anywhere near what I made in webdev, but I was too busy to fret about it.</p><p>By and by, I move up a notch in position, then become a weekend manager, then help run a new program. It's been nearly eight years now.</p><p>I work two full-time jobs, the second one somewhat related to the psychiatric work. 90 hours a week, and earning less than I did doing webdev. I'm not bitter - if anything, I'm thankful that I've got all the work I can handle while some folks are really suffering. My job security is pretty good, because working with psychiatric patients is a specialized skill that requires a certain temperament to do well.</p><p>I also write on the side, hence the user name.</p><p>Would I go back to webdev? It would require a lot of schooling - much has changed since I left the field - and if I did, I'd do it freelance. A previous poster was right - the problem is not IT, it's the boss.</p><p>But working with people definitely has its rewards, or I wouldn't have continued to do it so long. And this field has provided some fascinating  insights into human nature, in ways that most folks are never exposed to. It's been an interesting journey all around.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did web development from '96 to early 2001 .
Started as a freelancer in Florida , then temp and perm work in Washington , D.C. Money was good , respect was widespread , temping gave me plenty of time to travel .
Good times.Then the dot.com crash hit .
I spent the following year applying to 500 different jobs .
Got a few nibbles , a few interviews , but no bites .
I threw in the towel and went to work as , basically , an orderly at a psychiatric care center.We were chronically short-staffed at the outset , so there was all the overtime we could handle and then some .
The pay was n't anywhere near what I made in webdev , but I was too busy to fret about it.By and by , I move up a notch in position , then become a weekend manager , then help run a new program .
It 's been nearly eight years now.I work two full-time jobs , the second one somewhat related to the psychiatric work .
90 hours a week , and earning less than I did doing webdev .
I 'm not bitter - if anything , I 'm thankful that I 've got all the work I can handle while some folks are really suffering .
My job security is pretty good , because working with psychiatric patients is a specialized skill that requires a certain temperament to do well.I also write on the side , hence the user name.Would I go back to webdev ?
It would require a lot of schooling - much has changed since I left the field - and if I did , I 'd do it freelance .
A previous poster was right - the problem is not IT , it 's the boss.But working with people definitely has its rewards , or I would n't have continued to do it so long .
And this field has provided some fascinating insights into human nature , in ways that most folks are never exposed to .
It 's been an interesting journey all around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did web development from '96 to early 2001.
Started as a freelancer in Florida, then temp and perm work in Washington, D.C. Money was good, respect was widespread, temping gave me plenty of time to travel.
Good times.Then the dot.com crash hit.
I spent the following year applying to 500 different jobs.
Got a few nibbles, a few interviews, but no bites.
I threw in the towel and went to work as, basically, an orderly at a psychiatric care center.We were chronically short-staffed at the outset, so there was all the overtime we could handle and then some.
The pay wasn't anywhere near what I made in webdev, but I was too busy to fret about it.By and by, I move up a notch in position, then become a weekend manager, then help run a new program.
It's been nearly eight years now.I work two full-time jobs, the second one somewhat related to the psychiatric work.
90 hours a week, and earning less than I did doing webdev.
I'm not bitter - if anything, I'm thankful that I've got all the work I can handle while some folks are really suffering.
My job security is pretty good, because working with psychiatric patients is a specialized skill that requires a certain temperament to do well.I also write on the side, hence the user name.Would I go back to webdev?
It would require a lot of schooling - much has changed since I left the field - and if I did, I'd do it freelance.
A previous poster was right - the problem is not IT, it's the boss.But working with people definitely has its rewards, or I wouldn't have continued to do it so long.
And this field has provided some fascinating  insights into human nature, in ways that most folks are never exposed to.
It's been an interesting journey all around.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898975</id>
	<title>become a cop</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256751720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went from law Enforcement to IT, if not for certain injuries I would go back.<br>So become a cop, when someone gives you crap about something you can taze or mace them.<br>If they get really froggy you can shoot them.</p><p>Now if we could only shoot frigging stupid users.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went from law Enforcement to IT , if not for certain injuries I would go back.So become a cop , when someone gives you crap about something you can taze or mace them.If they get really froggy you can shoot them.Now if we could only shoot frigging stupid users .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went from law Enforcement to IT, if not for certain injuries I would go back.So become a cop, when someone gives you crap about something you can taze or mace them.If they get really froggy you can shoot them.Now if we could only shoot frigging stupid users.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897169</id>
	<title>Alcoholic parents/self-select for nursing</title>
	<author>wonkavader</author>
	<datestamp>1256744160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It used to be the case that a phenomenal percentage of nurses had one or more parents who were alcoholics.  They were used to taking care of people with little reward.</p><p>Now we need more nurses, we pay more, this attracts people with different attributes, and we worry about not getting a self-selected group.</p><p>An interesting situation.</p><p>Maybe we should lower the pay of nurses, again, remove all taxes from alcohol and lay off a bunch of adults to encourage parental drinking?  That would breed a new super-race of patient people with low expectations who'll take shit from doctors all day and still be nice to patients while wiping their butts.</p><p>Or we could work on better training for nurse candidates and a lot of role-play early in their education.  That's another thought.  Maybe not as good, but a possibility.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It used to be the case that a phenomenal percentage of nurses had one or more parents who were alcoholics .
They were used to taking care of people with little reward.Now we need more nurses , we pay more , this attracts people with different attributes , and we worry about not getting a self-selected group.An interesting situation.Maybe we should lower the pay of nurses , again , remove all taxes from alcohol and lay off a bunch of adults to encourage parental drinking ?
That would breed a new super-race of patient people with low expectations who 'll take shit from doctors all day and still be nice to patients while wiping their butts.Or we could work on better training for nurse candidates and a lot of role-play early in their education .
That 's another thought .
Maybe not as good , but a possibility .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It used to be the case that a phenomenal percentage of nurses had one or more parents who were alcoholics.
They were used to taking care of people with little reward.Now we need more nurses, we pay more, this attracts people with different attributes, and we worry about not getting a self-selected group.An interesting situation.Maybe we should lower the pay of nurses, again, remove all taxes from alcohol and lay off a bunch of adults to encourage parental drinking?
That would breed a new super-race of patient people with low expectations who'll take shit from doctors all day and still be nice to patients while wiping their butts.Or we could work on better training for nurse candidates and a lot of role-play early in their education.
That's another thought.
Maybe not as good, but a possibility.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896453</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>elnyka</author>
	<datestamp>1256741340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <b>Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.</b></p> </div><p>One name: General Motors.</p><p>

Unions have been great in history as tools that protect workers from employer's abuse. But that's it. Protection =/= protectionism. At the end of the day, the world is a competitive one, and if you have to rely on protectionism to guarantee a certain salary, then you will eventually be subject to harsher consequences of open, competitive markets, not to mention that the value you get remunerated with is way over the value that you actually generate.</p><p>

Compete with what you have, and get remunerated according to the value you are capable of creating.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out .
One name : General Motors .
Unions have been great in history as tools that protect workers from employer 's abuse .
But that 's it .
Protection = / = protectionism .
At the end of the day , the world is a competitive one , and if you have to rely on protectionism to guarantee a certain salary , then you will eventually be subject to harsher consequences of open , competitive markets , not to mention that the value you get remunerated with is way over the value that you actually generate .
Compete with what you have , and get remunerated according to the value you are capable of creating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Unions are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.
One name: General Motors.
Unions have been great in history as tools that protect workers from employer's abuse.
But that's it.
Protection =/= protectionism.
At the end of the day, the world is a competitive one, and if you have to rely on protectionism to guarantee a certain salary, then you will eventually be subject to harsher consequences of open, competitive markets, not to mention that the value you get remunerated with is way over the value that you actually generate.
Compete with what you have, and get remunerated according to the value you are capable of creating.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898235</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256748480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Unicorns are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out."

As someone who has worked public sector, was a unicorn fan, and even striked with the unicorns I can say that this is not entirely the case, unicorns are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.

Unicorns are okay if their power is kept small, but in the UK they go out of control- Unicornison, one of the UK's biggest unicorns claims over 2 million members, and despite the fact half the working population are taking paycuts right now, Unicornison is still pushing for pay rises, even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid &pound;29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around &pound;16k to &pound;18k. Governments are powerless to say no though, because they simply can't deal with the damage caused by a unicorn that can put a good portion of it's 2 million members on strike. The story is the same with teachers whereby you have teachers strikes because secondary school teachers are underpaid whilst the same unicorn covers primary school teachers who hence get the same rises and who are hence now heavily overpaid for their job, but what can the government do? risk having an entire generation of kids education disrupted setting them back for life?

Similarly, unicorns have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that. This makes it impossible to get rid of dead weight, because you can't afford the associated costs with doing so - it's cheaper to keep those useless people in the job, providing a shit service than it is to get rid of them.

We also have them acting as a strongly political tool, they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for, in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a unicorn, particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views.

I agree a country entirely without unicorns really would kind of suck for workers, but on the same note, as someone who lives in a country with unicorns that are simply far too powerful, and as someone who now, looking back wishes they had not given any support whatsoever to such unicorns I disagree that you want unicorns to become more popular or more powerful. They can bring countries to a standstill even when their argument has no merit- you only have to look at the current UK postal strikes for evidence of that and note also that the Royal Mail is having to pay &pound;20m a year to provide premises and time off work for it's staff to perform unicorn activities. That's a hell of a burden on a company when the only result is for the company to get screwed over for that &pound;20m it has had to spend. It's hard to tell what the Royal Mail strikes are even about as the official line seems to be changing daily from the unicorn involved- originally they admitted job cuts were needed and that that was not the issue but now they are saying it is about jobs. The Royal Mail has lost a &pound;25m Amazon contract because of this, you simply can't have a unicorn holding a company to ransom like that at the expense of the company, particularly when the unicorn doesn't even seem to be able to remain consistent in what it's actual demands are!</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Unicorns are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out .
" As someone who has worked public sector , was a unicorn fan , and even striked with the unicorns I can say that this is not entirely the case , unicorns are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK .
Unicorns are okay if their power is kept small , but in the UK they go out of control- Unicornison , one of the UK 's biggest unicorns claims over 2 million members , and despite the fact half the working population are taking paycuts right now , Unicornison is still pushing for pay rises , even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid   29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around   16k to   18k .
Governments are powerless to say no though , because they simply ca n't deal with the damage caused by a unicorn that can put a good portion of it 's 2 million members on strike .
The story is the same with teachers whereby you have teachers strikes because secondary school teachers are underpaid whilst the same unicorn covers primary school teachers who hence get the same rises and who are hence now heavily overpaid for their job , but what can the government do ?
risk having an entire generation of kids education disrupted setting them back for life ?
Similarly , unicorns have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that .
This makes it impossible to get rid of dead weight , because you ca n't afford the associated costs with doing so - it 's cheaper to keep those useless people in the job , providing a shit service than it is to get rid of them .
We also have them acting as a strongly political tool , they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for , in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a unicorn , particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views .
I agree a country entirely without unicorns really would kind of suck for workers , but on the same note , as someone who lives in a country with unicorns that are simply far too powerful , and as someone who now , looking back wishes they had not given any support whatsoever to such unicorns I disagree that you want unicorns to become more popular or more powerful .
They can bring countries to a standstill even when their argument has no merit- you only have to look at the current UK postal strikes for evidence of that and note also that the Royal Mail is having to pay   20m a year to provide premises and time off work for it 's staff to perform unicorn activities .
That 's a hell of a burden on a company when the only result is for the company to get screwed over for that   20m it has had to spend .
It 's hard to tell what the Royal Mail strikes are even about as the official line seems to be changing daily from the unicorn involved- originally they admitted job cuts were needed and that that was not the issue but now they are saying it is about jobs .
The Royal Mail has lost a   25m Amazon contract because of this , you simply ca n't have a unicorn holding a company to ransom like that at the expense of the company , particularly when the unicorn does n't even seem to be able to remain consistent in what it 's actual demands are !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Unicorns are very good things people and sooner or later this country is going to figure out.
"

As someone who has worked public sector, was a unicorn fan, and even striked with the unicorns I can say that this is not entirely the case, unicorns are dangerous and I would rather see them severely weakened in the UK.
Unicorns are okay if their power is kept small, but in the UK they go out of control- Unicornison, one of the UK's biggest unicorns claims over 2 million members, and despite the fact half the working population are taking paycuts right now, Unicornison is still pushing for pay rises, even though basic IT technicians are still getting paid £29k in some local authorities where their true market worth in private sector for the low levels of ability would be around £16k to £18k.
Governments are powerless to say no though, because they simply can't deal with the damage caused by a unicorn that can put a good portion of it's 2 million members on strike.
The story is the same with teachers whereby you have teachers strikes because secondary school teachers are underpaid whilst the same unicorn covers primary school teachers who hence get the same rises and who are hence now heavily overpaid for their job, but what can the government do?
risk having an entire generation of kids education disrupted setting them back for life?
Similarly, unicorns have a habit of protecting people at work regardless of the merit of that.
This makes it impossible to get rid of dead weight, because you can't afford the associated costs with doing so - it's cheaper to keep those useless people in the job, providing a shit service than it is to get rid of them.
We also have them acting as a strongly political tool, they mail out regularly to their 2 million members telling them who to vote for and who not to vote for, in my opinion this type of political lobbying is far beyond the remit of a unicorn, particularly one with 2 million members who have distinctly varied political views.
I agree a country entirely without unicorns really would kind of suck for workers, but on the same note, as someone who lives in a country with unicorns that are simply far too powerful, and as someone who now, looking back wishes they had not given any support whatsoever to such unicorns I disagree that you want unicorns to become more popular or more powerful.
They can bring countries to a standstill even when their argument has no merit- you only have to look at the current UK postal strikes for evidence of that and note also that the Royal Mail is having to pay £20m a year to provide premises and time off work for it's staff to perform unicorn activities.
That's a hell of a burden on a company when the only result is for the company to get screwed over for that £20m it has had to spend.
It's hard to tell what the Royal Mail strikes are even about as the official line seems to be changing daily from the unicorn involved- originally they admitted job cuts were needed and that that was not the issue but now they are saying it is about jobs.
The Royal Mail has lost a £25m Amazon contract because of this, you simply can't have a unicorn holding a company to ransom like that at the expense of the company, particularly when the unicorn doesn't even seem to be able to remain consistent in what it's actual demands are!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898505</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256749560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sorry..cars are still legal, for the moment. Get a life.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry..cars are still legal , for the moment .
Get a life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry..cars are still legal, for the moment.
Get a life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894847</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897475</id>
	<title>How about this...</title>
	<author>e-scetic</author>
	<datestamp>1256745360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll start off slightly off topic but there's a point coming.  </p><p>I always think that anyone who says "with the economy the way it is" doesn't really understand the economy.The economy is always the way it is.  For every person who is losing money, there is someone gaining.  What's bad for one company is good for another.  One industry shrinks, another grows.  The price/value of something goes up and down, benefiting and harming someone all of the time.  Every winning business idea/plan soon becomes a loser, every successful business that grows, grows to the point of losing control.  Every great product is eventually superseded by something better. Every business is based on exploiting something or someone.</p><p>The point I'll make is that if this kind of constant chaos and turmoil creates fear and anxiety in you, maybe you need to get out of the economy and go back to a much more basic and rewarding lifestyle. Maybe retire, or join a commune, live in a monastery, or set out on an adventure, hitchhike the world, sail the oceans, climb mountains.  Stuff that REALLY matters and nourishes the mind and soul.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll start off slightly off topic but there 's a point coming .
I always think that anyone who says " with the economy the way it is " does n't really understand the economy.The economy is always the way it is .
For every person who is losing money , there is someone gaining .
What 's bad for one company is good for another .
One industry shrinks , another grows .
The price/value of something goes up and down , benefiting and harming someone all of the time .
Every winning business idea/plan soon becomes a loser , every successful business that grows , grows to the point of losing control .
Every great product is eventually superseded by something better .
Every business is based on exploiting something or someone.The point I 'll make is that if this kind of constant chaos and turmoil creates fear and anxiety in you , maybe you need to get out of the economy and go back to a much more basic and rewarding lifestyle .
Maybe retire , or join a commune , live in a monastery , or set out on an adventure , hitchhike the world , sail the oceans , climb mountains .
Stuff that REALLY matters and nourishes the mind and soul .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll start off slightly off topic but there's a point coming.
I always think that anyone who says "with the economy the way it is" doesn't really understand the economy.The economy is always the way it is.
For every person who is losing money, there is someone gaining.
What's bad for one company is good for another.
One industry shrinks, another grows.
The price/value of something goes up and down, benefiting and harming someone all of the time.
Every winning business idea/plan soon becomes a loser, every successful business that grows, grows to the point of losing control.
Every great product is eventually superseded by something better.
Every business is based on exploiting something or someone.The point I'll make is that if this kind of constant chaos and turmoil creates fear and anxiety in you, maybe you need to get out of the economy and go back to a much more basic and rewarding lifestyle.
Maybe retire, or join a commune, live in a monastery, or set out on an adventure, hitchhike the world, sail the oceans, climb mountains.
Stuff that REALLY matters and nourishes the mind and soul.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893963</id>
	<title>IT is a big wide world</title>
	<author>carolfromoz</author>
	<datestamp>1256760840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is it possible that what you need is not actually to leave IT entirely, but to do something different in IT? After 15 years in IT, and having taken some time off for my second baby, I thought I was over it, but then I got into a whole new technical area that excited me again. I learnt lots of new skills, brushed up my CV, moved from internal IT staff to a consultancy firm. I'm now 3 years down the line from that time and I'm loving being a techie more than ever. I've had friends who've left IT and eventually regretted it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it possible that what you need is not actually to leave IT entirely , but to do something different in IT ?
After 15 years in IT , and having taken some time off for my second baby , I thought I was over it , but then I got into a whole new technical area that excited me again .
I learnt lots of new skills , brushed up my CV , moved from internal IT staff to a consultancy firm .
I 'm now 3 years down the line from that time and I 'm loving being a techie more than ever .
I 've had friends who 've left IT and eventually regretted it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it possible that what you need is not actually to leave IT entirely, but to do something different in IT?
After 15 years in IT, and having taken some time off for my second baby, I thought I was over it, but then I got into a whole new technical area that excited me again.
I learnt lots of new skills, brushed up my CV, moved from internal IT staff to a consultancy firm.
I'm now 3 years down the line from that time and I'm loving being a techie more than ever.
I've had friends who've left IT and eventually regretted it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29903595</id>
	<title>It's a challenge to transition</title>
	<author>mikey111111</author>
	<datestamp>1256729400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I transitioned away from a career in Biology for the exact same reasons you are bringing up. I was underpaid, and under appreciated. I realize it's not the same as moving away from IT, but there are probably some common parts to the experience.

I chose to work in upstream oil and gas. It's an industry here, and the strength of my B.Sc. got me a position that paid exactly the same as my biology job. Less than a year later I accepted another position within the company for almost triple that, and I've broken the six figures barrier.

The value of my B.Sc. was hard to factor in. Some people in the company understand that  a degree means you have the capacity to learn new things faster than most people. It also helps that I'm a keen student of everything that comes my way.

I made the transition, I don't like the people as much (oil production rate is tied to day to day stress in a big way), but I have been given the opportunity to learn all kinds of new skills that I didn't as a lab rat. I now deal with a difficult client that has about six levels of hierarchy (I never thought I would be able to be diplomatic to the degree that I am). I've made some new friends that I wouldn't have met any other way, and the compensation is much higher.

I just hope my luck holds, and that I keep on the steep learning curve successfully.

Best of luck if you choose it. It's a very difficult decision, and I suffered from anxiety for about six months after due to the uncertainty in my new domain.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I transitioned away from a career in Biology for the exact same reasons you are bringing up .
I was underpaid , and under appreciated .
I realize it 's not the same as moving away from IT , but there are probably some common parts to the experience .
I chose to work in upstream oil and gas .
It 's an industry here , and the strength of my B.Sc .
got me a position that paid exactly the same as my biology job .
Less than a year later I accepted another position within the company for almost triple that , and I 've broken the six figures barrier .
The value of my B.Sc .
was hard to factor in .
Some people in the company understand that a degree means you have the capacity to learn new things faster than most people .
It also helps that I 'm a keen student of everything that comes my way .
I made the transition , I do n't like the people as much ( oil production rate is tied to day to day stress in a big way ) , but I have been given the opportunity to learn all kinds of new skills that I did n't as a lab rat .
I now deal with a difficult client that has about six levels of hierarchy ( I never thought I would be able to be diplomatic to the degree that I am ) .
I 've made some new friends that I would n't have met any other way , and the compensation is much higher .
I just hope my luck holds , and that I keep on the steep learning curve successfully .
Best of luck if you choose it .
It 's a very difficult decision , and I suffered from anxiety for about six months after due to the uncertainty in my new domain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I transitioned away from a career in Biology for the exact same reasons you are bringing up.
I was underpaid, and under appreciated.
I realize it's not the same as moving away from IT, but there are probably some common parts to the experience.
I chose to work in upstream oil and gas.
It's an industry here, and the strength of my B.Sc.
got me a position that paid exactly the same as my biology job.
Less than a year later I accepted another position within the company for almost triple that, and I've broken the six figures barrier.
The value of my B.Sc.
was hard to factor in.
Some people in the company understand that  a degree means you have the capacity to learn new things faster than most people.
It also helps that I'm a keen student of everything that comes my way.
I made the transition, I don't like the people as much (oil production rate is tied to day to day stress in a big way), but I have been given the opportunity to learn all kinds of new skills that I didn't as a lab rat.
I now deal with a difficult client that has about six levels of hierarchy (I never thought I would be able to be diplomatic to the degree that I am).
I've made some new friends that I wouldn't have met any other way, and the compensation is much higher.
I just hope my luck holds, and that I keep on the steep learning curve successfully.
Best of luck if you choose it.
It's a very difficult decision, and I suffered from anxiety for about six months after due to the uncertainty in my new domain.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29905089</id>
	<title>Hinduism in Software</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256738760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With many Indian software engineers in the global software industry, and most of them being Hindu, this should not come as a surprise!</p><p>http://picasaweb.google.com/[my username here snipped for privacy]/UcAsTE?authkey=[generated part of the URL here snipped for privacy]#</p><p>catch the "caste" in the middle of the URL! "as in, What's ur caste buddy?"!! - "ucAsTE?!!"</p><p>https://mail.google.com/mail/?zx=&amp;shva=1#inbox</p><p>catch the "shva" (shiva!) in the middle!</p><p>Also, the Google "Chrome" browser has "Om" in the middle! Chr"Om"e!</p><p>As a side note, "Google" may also be interpreted as  "Good-gle", "God-gle"<br>So much for the company that wants to do "good things for the world"!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With many Indian software engineers in the global software industry , and most of them being Hindu , this should not come as a surprise ! http : //picasaweb.google.com/ [ my username here snipped for privacy ] /UcAsTE ? authkey = [ generated part of the URL here snipped for privacy ] # catch the " caste " in the middle of the URL !
" as in , What 's ur caste buddy ? " ! !
- " ucAsTE ? ! !
" https : //mail.google.com/mail/ ? zx = &amp;shva = 1 # inboxcatch the " shva " ( shiva !
) in the middle ! Also , the Google " Chrome " browser has " Om " in the middle !
Chr " Om " e ! As a side note , " Google " may also be interpreted as " Good-gle " , " God-gle " So much for the company that wants to do " good things for the world " !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With many Indian software engineers in the global software industry, and most of them being Hindu, this should not come as a surprise!http://picasaweb.google.com/[my username here snipped for privacy]/UcAsTE?authkey=[generated part of the URL here snipped for privacy]#catch the "caste" in the middle of the URL!
"as in, What's ur caste buddy?"!!
- "ucAsTE?!!
"https://mail.google.com/mail/?zx=&amp;shva=1#inboxcatch the "shva" (shiva!
) in the middle!Also, the Google "Chrome" browser has "Om" in the middle!
Chr"Om"e!As a side note, "Google" may also be interpreted as  "Good-gle", "God-gle"So much for the company that wants to do "good things for the world"!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895973</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256739300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah because you won't need that car to make any service calls, and hauling around computers and tools is trivial on a bike. Too bad granola can't increase your IQ idiot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah because you wo n't need that car to make any service calls , and hauling around computers and tools is trivial on a bike .
Too bad granola ca n't increase your IQ idiot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah because you won't need that car to make any service calls, and hauling around computers and tools is trivial on a bike.
Too bad granola can't increase your IQ idiot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894847</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29900489</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>Courageous</author>
	<datestamp>1256757720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Played a lot of pocket tanks with my friends</i></p><p>Usually it is considered wise to only admit these things as AC.</p><p>C//</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Played a lot of pocket tanks with my friendsUsually it is considered wise to only admit these things as AC.C//</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Played a lot of pocket tanks with my friendsUsually it is considered wise to only admit these things as AC.C//</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893785</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898323</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256748840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is not the ideas prescribed in Atlas Shrugged.  The problem is that the looters have appropriated some of the language to morally justify their thievery.  Pretty predictable actually...The drift from using your mind to create or execute a quality product earning wealth to figuring out how you can use any given situation to acquire wealth with the least amount of effort is at the root of our problem</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is not the ideas prescribed in Atlas Shrugged .
The problem is that the looters have appropriated some of the language to morally justify their thievery .
Pretty predictable actually...The drift from using your mind to create or execute a quality product earning wealth to figuring out how you can use any given situation to acquire wealth with the least amount of effort is at the root of our problem</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is not the ideas prescribed in Atlas Shrugged.
The problem is that the looters have appropriated some of the language to morally justify their thievery.
Pretty predictable actually...The drift from using your mind to create or execute a quality product earning wealth to figuring out how you can use any given situation to acquire wealth with the least amount of effort is at the root of our problem</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895171</id>
	<title>Labour</title>
	<author>bat2k</author>
	<datestamp>1256733600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I quit my IT job and moved to Alberta. I got my tickets and worked on the oil rigs in the winter and concrete in the summer. During my busiest year I made almost 3x more than IT. It was hard, grueling work, but I loved it. It was amazing to be able to see your work at the end of the day. I was out in Alberta for 3 years. Work dried up and now I'm back home looking for IT work along with starting my own business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I quit my IT job and moved to Alberta .
I got my tickets and worked on the oil rigs in the winter and concrete in the summer .
During my busiest year I made almost 3x more than IT .
It was hard , grueling work , but I loved it .
It was amazing to be able to see your work at the end of the day .
I was out in Alberta for 3 years .
Work dried up and now I 'm back home looking for IT work along with starting my own business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I quit my IT job and moved to Alberta.
I got my tickets and worked on the oil rigs in the winter and concrete in the summer.
During my busiest year I made almost 3x more than IT.
It was hard, grueling work, but I loved it.
It was amazing to be able to see your work at the end of the day.
I was out in Alberta for 3 years.
Work dried up and now I'm back home looking for IT work along with starting my own business.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895437</id>
	<title>LOL</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256735760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to say, I think this is one of the best comment threads I've ever seen on Slashdot lol. Between the bean sprout farmer, the guy with employees from Gitmo and the Indian guy who looks like Snoop Dog being asked for weed every day, I could barely stop laughing long enough to eat my breakfast... You guys are great<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to say , I think this is one of the best comment threads I 've ever seen on Slashdot lol .
Between the bean sprout farmer , the guy with employees from Gitmo and the Indian guy who looks like Snoop Dog being asked for weed every day , I could barely stop laughing long enough to eat my breakfast... You guys are great : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to say, I think this is one of the best comment threads I've ever seen on Slashdot lol.
Between the bean sprout farmer, the guy with employees from Gitmo and the Indian guy who looks like Snoop Dog being asked for weed every day, I could barely stop laughing long enough to eat my breakfast... You guys are great :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902187</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>4D6963</author>
	<datestamp>1256722080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's utter bullshit. "Jocks" don't run the world, real jocks end up working at an auto plant and become alcoholics by the time they're 35. Hustlers run the world. If you want the world you can't be a sheep. You can't follow the other sheeps and wonder why you're not getting anywhere special.

</p><p>Look at John D. Rockefeller, that guy was the perfect example of the successful aggressive hustler. From co-owning one refinery he pulled every possible trick to become more competitive than anyone else, eat the competition to get even bigger until he had a complete monopoly and became the richest son of a bitch in the world. No one told him what to do, no one showed him what to do, no one made it easy for him, he didn't follow anyone or complain like a big loser.

</p><p>At the other end of the spectrum you've got people complaining in this topic that their quasi-janitorial job isn't getting them anywhere. I mean shit, the type of jobs we're talking about here partially consists in making sure people don't have CAPS LOCK turned on when they login in the morning. What the hell did you expect?! No one gets anywhere special by following the safe, pre-designed path that you've borrowed. What you do isn't special, you're probably spending most of your work day typing in some MySQL when you're not typing rants on Slashdot with your Cheetos-scented fingers.

</p><p>I was just watching the Colbert Report and there was this thing about the university degrees the world's billionaires had. And guess what, a lot of them had none. Steve Jobs had none. Bill Gates had none. John D. Rockefeller had none. And you know what else these guys have in common? They're hustlers, and they got rich as hell. They didn't work for 20 years for some large company waiting to realise their career is shit, they took the bull by the horns, created their own damn company and strived to make it successful.

</p><p>You don't want to create your own company? You don't have any sort of entrepreneurial spirit? You don't want to quit your day job? Well too bad for you. In life you can only choose two of the following three things : have it easy, do something you like, become rich and respected. You chose the first two, don't complain you'll never see the third.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's utter bullshit .
" Jocks " do n't run the world , real jocks end up working at an auto plant and become alcoholics by the time they 're 35 .
Hustlers run the world .
If you want the world you ca n't be a sheep .
You ca n't follow the other sheeps and wonder why you 're not getting anywhere special .
Look at John D. Rockefeller , that guy was the perfect example of the successful aggressive hustler .
From co-owning one refinery he pulled every possible trick to become more competitive than anyone else , eat the competition to get even bigger until he had a complete monopoly and became the richest son of a bitch in the world .
No one told him what to do , no one showed him what to do , no one made it easy for him , he did n't follow anyone or complain like a big loser .
At the other end of the spectrum you 've got people complaining in this topic that their quasi-janitorial job is n't getting them anywhere .
I mean shit , the type of jobs we 're talking about here partially consists in making sure people do n't have CAPS LOCK turned on when they login in the morning .
What the hell did you expect ? !
No one gets anywhere special by following the safe , pre-designed path that you 've borrowed .
What you do is n't special , you 're probably spending most of your work day typing in some MySQL when you 're not typing rants on Slashdot with your Cheetos-scented fingers .
I was just watching the Colbert Report and there was this thing about the university degrees the world 's billionaires had .
And guess what , a lot of them had none .
Steve Jobs had none .
Bill Gates had none .
John D. Rockefeller had none .
And you know what else these guys have in common ?
They 're hustlers , and they got rich as hell .
They did n't work for 20 years for some large company waiting to realise their career is shit , they took the bull by the horns , created their own damn company and strived to make it successful .
You do n't want to create your own company ?
You do n't have any sort of entrepreneurial spirit ?
You do n't want to quit your day job ?
Well too bad for you .
In life you can only choose two of the following three things : have it easy , do something you like , become rich and respected .
You chose the first two , do n't complain you 'll never see the third .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's utter bullshit.
"Jocks" don't run the world, real jocks end up working at an auto plant and become alcoholics by the time they're 35.
Hustlers run the world.
If you want the world you can't be a sheep.
You can't follow the other sheeps and wonder why you're not getting anywhere special.
Look at John D. Rockefeller, that guy was the perfect example of the successful aggressive hustler.
From co-owning one refinery he pulled every possible trick to become more competitive than anyone else, eat the competition to get even bigger until he had a complete monopoly and became the richest son of a bitch in the world.
No one told him what to do, no one showed him what to do, no one made it easy for him, he didn't follow anyone or complain like a big loser.
At the other end of the spectrum you've got people complaining in this topic that their quasi-janitorial job isn't getting them anywhere.
I mean shit, the type of jobs we're talking about here partially consists in making sure people don't have CAPS LOCK turned on when they login in the morning.
What the hell did you expect?!
No one gets anywhere special by following the safe, pre-designed path that you've borrowed.
What you do isn't special, you're probably spending most of your work day typing in some MySQL when you're not typing rants on Slashdot with your Cheetos-scented fingers.
I was just watching the Colbert Report and there was this thing about the university degrees the world's billionaires had.
And guess what, a lot of them had none.
Steve Jobs had none.
Bill Gates had none.
John D. Rockefeller had none.
And you know what else these guys have in common?
They're hustlers, and they got rich as hell.
They didn't work for 20 years for some large company waiting to realise their career is shit, they took the bull by the horns, created their own damn company and strived to make it successful.
You don't want to create your own company?
You don't have any sort of entrepreneurial spirit?
You don't want to quit your day job?
Well too bad for you.
In life you can only choose two of the following three things : have it easy, do something you like, become rich and respected.
You chose the first two, don't complain you'll never see the third.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894361</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896485</id>
	<title>Re:I'd never do it, but</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256741460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others" sounds like every IT guy I know!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" genuine compassion , patience , and willingness to help others " sounds like every IT guy I know !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"genuine compassion, patience, and willingness to help others" sounds like every IT guy I know!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29896017</id>
	<title>Re:Bean Sprout Farming</title>
	<author>Larryish</author>
	<datestamp>1256739420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds promising.</p><p>What qualifications and checks are in place for sprout farming?</p><p>In other words, what government assholes do you have to deal with in order to farm sprouts?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds promising.What qualifications and checks are in place for sprout farming ? In other words , what government assholes do you have to deal with in order to farm sprouts ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds promising.What qualifications and checks are in place for sprout farming?In other words, what government assholes do you have to deal with in order to farm sprouts?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893677</id>
	<title>Allow me to summarize</title>
	<author>shashark</author>
	<datestamp>1256670840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>- Skills [read buzzwords] change every few years - Check <br>
- Buzzword compliance resume is more valuable than actual skills - Check <br>
- Your job can be shipped off to India, China or the Next-Offshore-Location any single day - Check  <br>
- You make a lot less than what people think you do - and a lot of your staff hates you [esp for Administrators] - Check  <br>
 <br> <br>
Did I miss anything ? So what's there NOT to hate an IT Job ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>- Skills [ read buzzwords ] change every few years - Check - Buzzword compliance resume is more valuable than actual skills - Check - Your job can be shipped off to India , China or the Next-Offshore-Location any single day - Check - You make a lot less than what people think you do - and a lot of your staff hates you [ esp for Administrators ] - Check Did I miss anything ?
So what 's there NOT to hate an IT Job ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>- Skills [read buzzwords] change every few years - Check 
- Buzzword compliance resume is more valuable than actual skills - Check 
- Your job can be shipped off to India, China or the Next-Offshore-Location any single day - Check  
- You make a lot less than what people think you do - and a lot of your staff hates you [esp for Administrators] - Check  
  
Did I miss anything ?
So what's there NOT to hate an IT Job ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893645</id>
	<title>Quantitative trading?</title>
	<author>ZmeiGorynych</author>
	<datestamp>1256670300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How good is your math? If it's reasonably good, then together with those IT skills you can try your hand at quant/algo trading, either from home (risky but fun), or working for some hedge fund or bank (initially as a quant developer, probably). In the latter case you certainly will have a better income than now;)  After all the firing of last year, right now there is quite a high demand in finance for experienced IT people.<br><br>It is high-stress, of course, but financially quite well-rewarded.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How good is your math ?
If it 's reasonably good , then together with those IT skills you can try your hand at quant/algo trading , either from home ( risky but fun ) , or working for some hedge fund or bank ( initially as a quant developer , probably ) .
In the latter case you certainly will have a better income than now ; ) After all the firing of last year , right now there is quite a high demand in finance for experienced IT people.It is high-stress , of course , but financially quite well-rewarded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How good is your math?
If it's reasonably good, then together with those IT skills you can try your hand at quant/algo trading, either from home (risky but fun), or working for some hedge fund or bank (initially as a quant developer, probably).
In the latter case you certainly will have a better income than now;)  After all the firing of last year, right now there is quite a high demand in finance for experienced IT people.It is high-stress, of course, but financially quite well-rewarded.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894053</id>
	<title>Re:OK how do you get jobs like this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256762100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My IT Training came from on-the-job. The Navy was still all dumb terminals and MSDOS. My job, as a journalist, eventually required the command provide me with a system for desktop publishing. That meant either Windows 3.1 or MacOS 7. Fearing Mac, they gave me Windows and Aldus PageMaker. When the command began rolling out Windows to the rest of our personnel, I was the only person on-hand who had any knowledge. I became Tech Support. When they began networking the machines together in a workgroup, I assisted with that as well. Not to mention that cabling a ship for closed circuit television is only a few steps removed from cabling 10Base2 ThinNet.<br>When my ship pulled into Hawaii, I spent my liberty installing Slackware on my personal laptop. By the time I got out of the Navy, I had plenty of experience with Windows, Unix (Linux), and networking. I got a low-level, low-paying job at a financial corporation and quickly worked my way up by proving my ability and obtaining requisite certs, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My IT Training came from on-the-job .
The Navy was still all dumb terminals and MSDOS .
My job , as a journalist , eventually required the command provide me with a system for desktop publishing .
That meant either Windows 3.1 or MacOS 7 .
Fearing Mac , they gave me Windows and Aldus PageMaker .
When the command began rolling out Windows to the rest of our personnel , I was the only person on-hand who had any knowledge .
I became Tech Support .
When they began networking the machines together in a workgroup , I assisted with that as well .
Not to mention that cabling a ship for closed circuit television is only a few steps removed from cabling 10Base2 ThinNet.When my ship pulled into Hawaii , I spent my liberty installing Slackware on my personal laptop .
By the time I got out of the Navy , I had plenty of experience with Windows , Unix ( Linux ) , and networking .
I got a low-level , low-paying job at a financial corporation and quickly worked my way up by proving my ability and obtaining requisite certs , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My IT Training came from on-the-job.
The Navy was still all dumb terminals and MSDOS.
My job, as a journalist, eventually required the command provide me with a system for desktop publishing.
That meant either Windows 3.1 or MacOS 7.
Fearing Mac, they gave me Windows and Aldus PageMaker.
When the command began rolling out Windows to the rest of our personnel, I was the only person on-hand who had any knowledge.
I became Tech Support.
When they began networking the machines together in a workgroup, I assisted with that as well.
Not to mention that cabling a ship for closed circuit television is only a few steps removed from cabling 10Base2 ThinNet.When my ship pulled into Hawaii, I spent my liberty installing Slackware on my personal laptop.
By the time I got out of the Navy, I had plenty of experience with Windows, Unix (Linux), and networking.
I got a low-level, low-paying job at a financial corporation and quickly worked my way up by proving my ability and obtaining requisite certs, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893621</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895671</id>
	<title>Real Estate</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256737620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As crazy as it seems in these times, I'm beginning the process of phasing out my IT Manager career in favor of Real Estate sales.  Here is why:<br>1.  Bosses suck.<br>2.  Most super successful people work for themselves.<br>3.  Freedom from the 9 to 5 life.<br>4.  More money.<br>5.  Time to pursue other things.</p><p>Right now, the market is tough, many mediocre agents have left, leaving the real pros to work with and learn from.  Further, this market is not going to last forever, there will be a return to normal, though not likely the silly boom that occurred pre-recession.  With all the mediocre people out of my way, and with time as a part time agent amongst the older pros, I will be positioned to take advantage of the upcoming recovery.</p><p>Real estate is not just selling a house down the street, or helping your Aunt buy a condo, it's also selling buildings, and can be taken in an investment direction.  Real estate is a large field that a person can take in many directions.</p><p>It also gives me time to coach football, even during traditional work hours.</p><p>I took a look at what kinds of things blogger do.  How the heck does writing some blog make enough money to survive?  What I found, not just for bloggers, but lots of other creative entrepreneurs, is that they didn't just do one thing - they wrote a successful blog, and consulted, and did a bunch of things to make money.  They were financially comfortable, yet had a variety of money making pursuits, making things interesting and keeping them out of the rut we salary types get into.</p><p>If other people can do these things, so can I.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As crazy as it seems in these times , I 'm beginning the process of phasing out my IT Manager career in favor of Real Estate sales .
Here is why : 1 .
Bosses suck.2 .
Most super successful people work for themselves.3 .
Freedom from the 9 to 5 life.4 .
More money.5 .
Time to pursue other things.Right now , the market is tough , many mediocre agents have left , leaving the real pros to work with and learn from .
Further , this market is not going to last forever , there will be a return to normal , though not likely the silly boom that occurred pre-recession .
With all the mediocre people out of my way , and with time as a part time agent amongst the older pros , I will be positioned to take advantage of the upcoming recovery.Real estate is not just selling a house down the street , or helping your Aunt buy a condo , it 's also selling buildings , and can be taken in an investment direction .
Real estate is a large field that a person can take in many directions.It also gives me time to coach football , even during traditional work hours.I took a look at what kinds of things blogger do .
How the heck does writing some blog make enough money to survive ?
What I found , not just for bloggers , but lots of other creative entrepreneurs , is that they did n't just do one thing - they wrote a successful blog , and consulted , and did a bunch of things to make money .
They were financially comfortable , yet had a variety of money making pursuits , making things interesting and keeping them out of the rut we salary types get into.If other people can do these things , so can I .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As crazy as it seems in these times, I'm beginning the process of phasing out my IT Manager career in favor of Real Estate sales.
Here is why:1.
Bosses suck.2.
Most super successful people work for themselves.3.
Freedom from the 9 to 5 life.4.
More money.5.
Time to pursue other things.Right now, the market is tough, many mediocre agents have left, leaving the real pros to work with and learn from.
Further, this market is not going to last forever, there will be a return to normal, though not likely the silly boom that occurred pre-recession.
With all the mediocre people out of my way, and with time as a part time agent amongst the older pros, I will be positioned to take advantage of the upcoming recovery.Real estate is not just selling a house down the street, or helping your Aunt buy a condo, it's also selling buildings, and can be taken in an investment direction.
Real estate is a large field that a person can take in many directions.It also gives me time to coach football, even during traditional work hours.I took a look at what kinds of things blogger do.
How the heck does writing some blog make enough money to survive?
What I found, not just for bloggers, but lots of other creative entrepreneurs, is that they didn't just do one thing - they wrote a successful blog, and consulted, and did a bunch of things to make money.
They were financially comfortable, yet had a variety of money making pursuits, making things interesting and keeping them out of the rut we salary types get into.If other people can do these things, so can I.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897491</id>
	<title>Unions....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256745420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To Xest (935314)Unions make the United States unable to compete. Look at the UAW?  How about taking a class in Macro-economics?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To Xest ( 935314 ) Unions make the United States unable to compete .
Look at the UAW ?
How about taking a class in Macro-economics ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To Xest (935314)Unions make the United States unable to compete.
Look at the UAW?
How about taking a class in Macro-economics?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893593</id>
	<title>Seriously thinking about prostitution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256669640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My current job does not pay enough for me to keep hope for a decent future. I've just become a wage slave.</p><p>I might as well begin a second job as a prostitute, that would be sick, but at least I could save a little.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My current job does not pay enough for me to keep hope for a decent future .
I 've just become a wage slave.I might as well begin a second job as a prostitute , that would be sick , but at least I could save a little .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My current job does not pay enough for me to keep hope for a decent future.
I've just become a wage slave.I might as well begin a second job as a prostitute, that would be sick, but at least I could save a little.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29901561</id>
	<title>Re:Look before you leap</title>
	<author>BillGod</author>
	<datestamp>1256762520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have a motorcycle.. why would i ride a bicycle?  My last 2 jobs were 45 miles each way.  2 miles is SWEET</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a motorcycle.. why would i ride a bicycle ?
My last 2 jobs were 45 miles each way .
2 miles is SWEET</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a motorcycle.. why would i ride a bicycle?
My last 2 jobs were 45 miles each way.
2 miles is SWEET</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894847</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893801</id>
	<title>Am I the only one left who thinks his pay is okay?</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1256672220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This isn't the easiest job in the world, and there have been some unfortunate changes of late but salary isn't one of them. I'm making a decent living in IT. I'm not going to get rich soon, but my wife doesn't have to work and can raise our 1 year old properly for a couple of years (and the next child that comes along too if nothing goes south). My hours aren't great but they aren't lousy either, and I get a day a month off and only work about 1 weekend in 10. Hardest thing about my job is the shift work - no overnight shifts but getting up early one week then working late the next takes it out of you. Second hardest part is facing the fact that I'll be working for another 25-35 years with lots of accrued leave but few actual breaks taken<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... well unless I get ill or die (which is quite possible). But that'd be true in any profession.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't the easiest job in the world , and there have been some unfortunate changes of late but salary is n't one of them .
I 'm making a decent living in IT .
I 'm not going to get rich soon , but my wife does n't have to work and can raise our 1 year old properly for a couple of years ( and the next child that comes along too if nothing goes south ) .
My hours are n't great but they are n't lousy either , and I get a day a month off and only work about 1 weekend in 10 .
Hardest thing about my job is the shift work - no overnight shifts but getting up early one week then working late the next takes it out of you .
Second hardest part is facing the fact that I 'll be working for another 25-35 years with lots of accrued leave but few actual breaks taken .... well unless I get ill or die ( which is quite possible ) .
But that 'd be true in any profession .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't the easiest job in the world, and there have been some unfortunate changes of late but salary isn't one of them.
I'm making a decent living in IT.
I'm not going to get rich soon, but my wife doesn't have to work and can raise our 1 year old properly for a couple of years (and the next child that comes along too if nothing goes south).
My hours aren't great but they aren't lousy either, and I get a day a month off and only work about 1 weekend in 10.
Hardest thing about my job is the shift work - no overnight shifts but getting up early one week then working late the next takes it out of you.
Second hardest part is facing the fact that I'll be working for another 25-35 years with lots of accrued leave but few actual breaks taken .... well unless I get ill or die (which is quite possible).
But that'd be true in any profession.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894197</id>
	<title>Yeah I left IT for good.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256721000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I chose to move to a full time position as a welfare recipient.</p><p>Gone are the dreams of cars, condos and ties. I now play World of Warcraft nearly full time. Cash in the monthly check and sell a little WoW gold on the side on Ebay.</p><p>Fuck this society. I can still pay my cheap rent, eat, and get high-speed internet, plus three bottles of cheap wine a week. No boss anymore. I consider Im not getting such a bad deal.</p><p>I kept away a few thousands stashed for an emergency and I can mooch the occasional free meal at my dad's.</p><p>We're all gonna die anyway. Im through with trying to be productive in the meantime. Fuck. It. All.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I chose to move to a full time position as a welfare recipient.Gone are the dreams of cars , condos and ties .
I now play World of Warcraft nearly full time .
Cash in the monthly check and sell a little WoW gold on the side on Ebay.Fuck this society .
I can still pay my cheap rent , eat , and get high-speed internet , plus three bottles of cheap wine a week .
No boss anymore .
I consider Im not getting such a bad deal.I kept away a few thousands stashed for an emergency and I can mooch the occasional free meal at my dad 's.We 're all gon na die anyway .
Im through with trying to be productive in the meantime .
Fuck. It .
All .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I chose to move to a full time position as a welfare recipient.Gone are the dreams of cars, condos and ties.
I now play World of Warcraft nearly full time.
Cash in the monthly check and sell a little WoW gold on the side on Ebay.Fuck this society.
I can still pay my cheap rent, eat, and get high-speed internet, plus three bottles of cheap wine a week.
No boss anymore.
I consider Im not getting such a bad deal.I kept away a few thousands stashed for an emergency and I can mooch the occasional free meal at my dad's.We're all gonna die anyway.
Im through with trying to be productive in the meantime.
Fuck. It.
All.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29903743</id>
	<title>Be a teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256730420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I gave up programming to become an ICT teacher here in the UK. After 3 years I've just got back to where I was salary-wise, and the hours are far worse (barring the summer holidays - I work in every other holiday and weekend).</p><p>That said, I am far happier, I feel a tangible job satisfaction, and (most importantly for me) I deal with people on an every day basis. Also, because I have gone into a field with few IT literate people, I stand out above the rest due to my knowledge of computers and have managed to carve out a niche as "the computer guy" which has helped my career no end. Also, as most IT teachers seem to be failed accountants or ex Maths teachers, I feel like I am really useful to my students.</p><p>I still think about going back to programming after a really tough day, but taken as a whole I am glad I left IT.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I gave up programming to become an ICT teacher here in the UK .
After 3 years I 've just got back to where I was salary-wise , and the hours are far worse ( barring the summer holidays - I work in every other holiday and weekend ) .That said , I am far happier , I feel a tangible job satisfaction , and ( most importantly for me ) I deal with people on an every day basis .
Also , because I have gone into a field with few IT literate people , I stand out above the rest due to my knowledge of computers and have managed to carve out a niche as " the computer guy " which has helped my career no end .
Also , as most IT teachers seem to be failed accountants or ex Maths teachers , I feel like I am really useful to my students.I still think about going back to programming after a really tough day , but taken as a whole I am glad I left IT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I gave up programming to become an ICT teacher here in the UK.
After 3 years I've just got back to where I was salary-wise, and the hours are far worse (barring the summer holidays - I work in every other holiday and weekend).That said, I am far happier, I feel a tangible job satisfaction, and (most importantly for me) I deal with people on an every day basis.
Also, because I have gone into a field with few IT literate people, I stand out above the rest due to my knowledge of computers and have managed to carve out a niche as "the computer guy" which has helped my career no end.
Also, as most IT teachers seem to be failed accountants or ex Maths teachers, I feel like I am really useful to my students.I still think about going back to programming after a really tough day, but taken as a whole I am glad I left IT.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29902743</id>
	<title>Re:I wish I had stayed down the docks.</title>
	<author>joeyg1973</author>
	<datestamp>1256725080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>  So I knew that the union comment would take a beating.

  I always get the sense that those against unions are just like the higher ups.  They know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

  Since you all went after the low hanging same old same old fruit that hold no merit.

  As to unions giving a sense of entitlement, you are damn straight.  If you put in 5 or 50 years of work at a company you should have a sense of entitlement.  You have helped this company become what it is and you should be entitled to be proud of your job and your work.

  As to getting rid of unions because they protect the lazy workers which are a small minority.  Or, unions are bad because I once heard a story about a union that voted against taking a pay cut and the company shut down.  Using this logic, we should abolish freedom of speech because there are is a small minority of crazies out there that will say just about anything and just about anything because they can.  We should also get rid of the right to bear arms because there are a small amount of nut jobs out there that will get all the guns they can and shoot people.  The Police should be disbanded because there is a small minority out there that abuse their power.  Face it, it's a piss poor argument because all human constructs are flawed.  If you go looking for a problem, you will find several in everything, but they doesn't mean we should eliminate it because of those problems.  The good out weights the bad when it comes to unions.

  As to the statement that unions are no longer needed because the government has laws that protect the worker today.  Yeah keep telling yourself that.  You simply cannot live on minimum wage in this country without working some crazy hours like an 80 hour week, that is a fact.  Almost all the minimum wage jobs you can get will only allow you to work part time so that they don't have to pay for health insurance which means you need several part time jobs at minimum wage to get the ridiculous amount of hours you need to just barely scrape by.  Oh and forget health insurance because you can't afford it and of course all those hours you spend working are contributing to your good heath.

  The government nor a company isn't going to pay attention to one individual, but a union it will.  Unfortunately in this country thanks to years and untold amount of money lobbying and discrediting unions, corporations have been able to enact many laws against unions in this country that have marginalized unions.  The result of this is that we have the current work and health care abuses and a lot of other things that are completely out of balance in this country.

  Here is a kicker... I just read in the paper here on Sunday that corporations are lobbying harder than ever to allow more foreign works into this country to do tech jobs because there are simply not enough qualified candidates.  UM BULLSHIT!  I would send this into both my congressmen and my senators, but all this winds up doing is getting me on their junk mail list.  On the other hand if I had a union that had a much larger pocket, voice, and pull I could have a chance to fight it.

  Oh and the GM stockholders got the shaft because people that knew the cost of everything but the value of nothing keep making shit cars with Tupperwear interiors and features that were state of the art 10 years ago.  Despite what you may have heard, the union workers at GM don't make much if anything more than non union shops.  But I can guarantee you that without the union, all automotive companies would be paying minimum wage part time only on the assembly line.  If you need any more evidence that the GM higher ups are morons the fact that they are killing off Pontiac rather than spinning it off as a separate company if a perfect example.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So I knew that the union comment would take a beating .
I always get the sense that those against unions are just like the higher ups .
They know the cost of everything but the value of nothing .
Since you all went after the low hanging same old same old fruit that hold no merit .
As to unions giving a sense of entitlement , you are damn straight .
If you put in 5 or 50 years of work at a company you should have a sense of entitlement .
You have helped this company become what it is and you should be entitled to be proud of your job and your work .
As to getting rid of unions because they protect the lazy workers which are a small minority .
Or , unions are bad because I once heard a story about a union that voted against taking a pay cut and the company shut down .
Using this logic , we should abolish freedom of speech because there are is a small minority of crazies out there that will say just about anything and just about anything because they can .
We should also get rid of the right to bear arms because there are a small amount of nut jobs out there that will get all the guns they can and shoot people .
The Police should be disbanded because there is a small minority out there that abuse their power .
Face it , it 's a piss poor argument because all human constructs are flawed .
If you go looking for a problem , you will find several in everything , but they does n't mean we should eliminate it because of those problems .
The good out weights the bad when it comes to unions .
As to the statement that unions are no longer needed because the government has laws that protect the worker today .
Yeah keep telling yourself that .
You simply can not live on minimum wage in this country without working some crazy hours like an 80 hour week , that is a fact .
Almost all the minimum wage jobs you can get will only allow you to work part time so that they do n't have to pay for health insurance which means you need several part time jobs at minimum wage to get the ridiculous amount of hours you need to just barely scrape by .
Oh and forget health insurance because you ca n't afford it and of course all those hours you spend working are contributing to your good heath .
The government nor a company is n't going to pay attention to one individual , but a union it will .
Unfortunately in this country thanks to years and untold amount of money lobbying and discrediting unions , corporations have been able to enact many laws against unions in this country that have marginalized unions .
The result of this is that we have the current work and health care abuses and a lot of other things that are completely out of balance in this country .
Here is a kicker... I just read in the paper here on Sunday that corporations are lobbying harder than ever to allow more foreign works into this country to do tech jobs because there are simply not enough qualified candidates .
UM BULLSHIT !
I would send this into both my congressmen and my senators , but all this winds up doing is getting me on their junk mail list .
On the other hand if I had a union that had a much larger pocket , voice , and pull I could have a chance to fight it .
Oh and the GM stockholders got the shaft because people that knew the cost of everything but the value of nothing keep making shit cars with Tupperwear interiors and features that were state of the art 10 years ago .
Despite what you may have heard , the union workers at GM do n't make much if anything more than non union shops .
But I can guarantee you that without the union , all automotive companies would be paying minimum wage part time only on the assembly line .
If you need any more evidence that the GM higher ups are morons the fact that they are killing off Pontiac rather than spinning it off as a separate company if a perfect example .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  So I knew that the union comment would take a beating.
I always get the sense that those against unions are just like the higher ups.
They know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
Since you all went after the low hanging same old same old fruit that hold no merit.
As to unions giving a sense of entitlement, you are damn straight.
If you put in 5 or 50 years of work at a company you should have a sense of entitlement.
You have helped this company become what it is and you should be entitled to be proud of your job and your work.
As to getting rid of unions because they protect the lazy workers which are a small minority.
Or, unions are bad because I once heard a story about a union that voted against taking a pay cut and the company shut down.
Using this logic, we should abolish freedom of speech because there are is a small minority of crazies out there that will say just about anything and just about anything because they can.
We should also get rid of the right to bear arms because there are a small amount of nut jobs out there that will get all the guns they can and shoot people.
The Police should be disbanded because there is a small minority out there that abuse their power.
Face it, it's a piss poor argument because all human constructs are flawed.
If you go looking for a problem, you will find several in everything, but they doesn't mean we should eliminate it because of those problems.
The good out weights the bad when it comes to unions.
As to the statement that unions are no longer needed because the government has laws that protect the worker today.
Yeah keep telling yourself that.
You simply cannot live on minimum wage in this country without working some crazy hours like an 80 hour week, that is a fact.
Almost all the minimum wage jobs you can get will only allow you to work part time so that they don't have to pay for health insurance which means you need several part time jobs at minimum wage to get the ridiculous amount of hours you need to just barely scrape by.
Oh and forget health insurance because you can't afford it and of course all those hours you spend working are contributing to your good heath.
The government nor a company isn't going to pay attention to one individual, but a union it will.
Unfortunately in this country thanks to years and untold amount of money lobbying and discrediting unions, corporations have been able to enact many laws against unions in this country that have marginalized unions.
The result of this is that we have the current work and health care abuses and a lot of other things that are completely out of balance in this country.
Here is a kicker... I just read in the paper here on Sunday that corporations are lobbying harder than ever to allow more foreign works into this country to do tech jobs because there are simply not enough qualified candidates.
UM BULLSHIT!
I would send this into both my congressmen and my senators, but all this winds up doing is getting me on their junk mail list.
On the other hand if I had a union that had a much larger pocket, voice, and pull I could have a chance to fight it.
Oh and the GM stockholders got the shaft because people that knew the cost of everything but the value of nothing keep making shit cars with Tupperwear interiors and features that were state of the art 10 years ago.
Despite what you may have heard, the union workers at GM don't make much if anything more than non union shops.
But I can guarantee you that without the union, all automotive companies would be paying minimum wage part time only on the assembly line.
If you need any more evidence that the GM higher ups are morons the fact that they are killing off Pontiac rather than spinning it off as a separate company if a perfect example.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893939</id>
	<title>Applying economics to job hunting</title>
	<author>adamkennedy</author>
	<datestamp>1256760540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hear people complaining about their shitty IT conditions, and I really do sympathise.</p><p>I used to be in a similar situation, before I learned a bit more about Economics and applied it to job hunting.</p><p>Supply and Demand alone suggest jobs in places like the Games industry (to which most male gamers under the age of about 25 aspire) will be horrible. The massive supply of labour will be chewed up and spat out by the fickle industry, paid low money and treated like crap.</p><p>Likewise, many people in IT are on the cost side of the ledger, where a company is always going to be seeking for reductions in cost and increases in efficiency.</p><p>My suggestion? Find an industry which is old (and thus has well established work principles), deeply unsexy, and (if you can) look for jobs on the income side of the ledger. And then be the guy that steps up to take responsibility for safe-guarding that income, the guy that can step up and speak truth to power and be taken seriously because it's your job to make sure that $100m, or $1b, or $10b revenue stream never ever ever stops.</p><p>In my case, I discovered the logistics industry and found a programming job at the largest company in my country maintaining the codebase responsible for 80\% of their sales (and climbing).</p><p>Good money, normal 9-5 hours, prohibited from doing overtime, a proper infra team to manage the hardware, a proper ops team to deploy and run our software, and a reasonable ability to requisition just about anything we need, because The Spice Must Flow.</p><p>I would imagine that similar jobs to mine exist in all kinds of places that sound really boring, places like power companies and garbage recycling and anywhere else that needs a lot of IT but will never be mentioned on the front page of slashdot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hear people complaining about their shitty IT conditions , and I really do sympathise.I used to be in a similar situation , before I learned a bit more about Economics and applied it to job hunting.Supply and Demand alone suggest jobs in places like the Games industry ( to which most male gamers under the age of about 25 aspire ) will be horrible .
The massive supply of labour will be chewed up and spat out by the fickle industry , paid low money and treated like crap.Likewise , many people in IT are on the cost side of the ledger , where a company is always going to be seeking for reductions in cost and increases in efficiency.My suggestion ?
Find an industry which is old ( and thus has well established work principles ) , deeply unsexy , and ( if you can ) look for jobs on the income side of the ledger .
And then be the guy that steps up to take responsibility for safe-guarding that income , the guy that can step up and speak truth to power and be taken seriously because it 's your job to make sure that $ 100m , or $ 1b , or $ 10b revenue stream never ever ever stops.In my case , I discovered the logistics industry and found a programming job at the largest company in my country maintaining the codebase responsible for 80 \ % of their sales ( and climbing ) .Good money , normal 9-5 hours , prohibited from doing overtime , a proper infra team to manage the hardware , a proper ops team to deploy and run our software , and a reasonable ability to requisition just about anything we need , because The Spice Must Flow.I would imagine that similar jobs to mine exist in all kinds of places that sound really boring , places like power companies and garbage recycling and anywhere else that needs a lot of IT but will never be mentioned on the front page of slashdot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hear people complaining about their shitty IT conditions, and I really do sympathise.I used to be in a similar situation, before I learned a bit more about Economics and applied it to job hunting.Supply and Demand alone suggest jobs in places like the Games industry (to which most male gamers under the age of about 25 aspire) will be horrible.
The massive supply of labour will be chewed up and spat out by the fickle industry, paid low money and treated like crap.Likewise, many people in IT are on the cost side of the ledger, where a company is always going to be seeking for reductions in cost and increases in efficiency.My suggestion?
Find an industry which is old (and thus has well established work principles), deeply unsexy, and (if you can) look for jobs on the income side of the ledger.
And then be the guy that steps up to take responsibility for safe-guarding that income, the guy that can step up and speak truth to power and be taken seriously because it's your job to make sure that $100m, or $1b, or $10b revenue stream never ever ever stops.In my case, I discovered the logistics industry and found a programming job at the largest company in my country maintaining the codebase responsible for 80\% of their sales (and climbing).Good money, normal 9-5 hours, prohibited from doing overtime, a proper infra team to manage the hardware, a proper ops team to deploy and run our software, and a reasonable ability to requisition just about anything we need, because The Spice Must Flow.I would imagine that similar jobs to mine exist in all kinds of places that sound really boring, places like power companies and garbage recycling and anywhere else that needs a lot of IT but will never be mentioned on the front page of slashdot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29898039</id>
	<title>Re:Very timely...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256747580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, well said man.</p><p>Your enthusiasm is contagious<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;).</p><p>Best of luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , well said man.Your enthusiasm is contagious ; ) .Best of luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, well said man.Your enthusiasm is contagious ;).Best of luck.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29899007</id>
	<title>Re:Out of the frying pan, and into the fire</title>
	<author>Overzeetop</author>
	<datestamp>1256751840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really? I can only presume you've graduated to "owner" status and don't work the business(es) any more. Most small shop owners I know who are successful have very little free time outside of the business. Now, owners who have moved on from managing their own shop to "owning" several usually do quite well, but it normally takes quite a while - and a fair bit of business acumen - to get to that point.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ?
I can only presume you 've graduated to " owner " status and do n't work the business ( es ) any more .
Most small shop owners I know who are successful have very little free time outside of the business .
Now , owners who have moved on from managing their own shop to " owning " several usually do quite well , but it normally takes quite a while - and a fair bit of business acumen - to get to that point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really?
I can only presume you've graduated to "owner" status and don't work the business(es) any more.
Most small shop owners I know who are successful have very little free time outside of the business.
Now, owners who have moved on from managing their own shop to "owning" several usually do quite well, but it normally takes quite a while - and a fair bit of business acumen - to get to that point.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893591</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893767</id>
	<title>Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes</title>
	<author>Dripdry</author>
	<datestamp>1256671860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I moved from IT, which i worked on in grade school, high school, college, and after college, into financial advice about 4 years back.<br>Since I was not professionally in IT for too long (though I performed a number of functions which are considered professional) I may not be the most qualified to answer this, but here goes (forgive the length):</p><p>IT for me just became too impersonal and cutthroat. I'm more the type who would rather enjoy my job and take satisfaction in actually doing something meaningful for someone than just collecting a paycheck. If it means less pay, so be it.</p><p>The pay cut has been quite significant, but that stems from personal issues with helping immediate family. The pay cut is mostly because I don't (am not charming enough to) wantonly sell insurance, funds, and annuities, but rather good advice. That's not the way to make a fast buck in this business.</p><p>Also, my age presents an initial barrier (yours might?) to the instant rapport of those with gray hair (counts for a lot in this business). I say this because experience matters a lot (obviously), so if you've trained your whole life for IT and decide to go elsewhere you may end up with the Catch-22 so many college grads have: You need experience to get the job, but if you don't get the job you can't get the experience.</p><p>Speaking of experience, the learning curve was a total mind-fuck and I'm still always trying to keep up. If you're looking for a skill where you can basically fire and forget, finance is not for you. All those details you learned over your career, and the details before that which landed you the job, AND the details that got you INTERESTED in the details that got you the job? Yeah, you have to relearn ALL that stuff, but you're grown-up now, have less time to tinker (most likely), and probably don't absorb things as easily as when you were a kid (if that's when you began learning IT).</p><p>In terms of working with people, that's about 50-70\% of our job, and we're excessively analytical when it comes to our practice. Regarding other jobs (even VERY scientific/ analytical ones) many of our clients' "normal" jobs have a rather significant social component to them it seems. Many of those skills are somewhat learnable (if that's your concern, no offense meant). Personally, I have mixed emotions about client interaction. It feels wonderful to tell someone how you've ensured that their kid(s) can go to college, or they can retire despite the big downturn we've had, and see the relief on their face. You've just made an enormous difference in their life and that's no small feat.  OTOH, sometimes getting people to heed prudent advice, working with them when emotions run high (family death, disability, whatever) or trying to alter old financial habits can be quite frustrating. I've lain awake at night trying to figure out the right questions to ask people to help them realize how critical a piece of advice is.</p><p>So, to use a cliche, it's a double-edged sword (the social aspect). It's also not a 9-5 job, you can always do more.</p><p>The analytical aspect is great fun IMO and could never have happened without my time spent debugging code from BASIC in 4th grade to assembler and C in college, in addition to the patience gained from troubleshooting hardware/software in person and over the phone. Although most financial "professionals" don't do it, I read prospectuses for insurance contracts, Summary Plan Descriptions, and other docs to ferret out tiny, but often very important details that few other advisors seem to look for or care about. Yes, I enjoy being so analytical. It helps set me apart by leveraging the general skills I learned over many years working with computers.</p><p>I'd say the change can be incredibly daunting, however if you find creative ways to leverage your skills (many non-obvious) with your new field you can become an invaluable worker in that field by bringing new perspectives and skillsets that many others might not have.</p><p>I'd say it was worth the transition for me, but I'm also not your average bear.</p><p>I hope these answers weren't all excessively obvious and they give at least a little bit of direction for whatever you decide to do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I moved from IT , which i worked on in grade school , high school , college , and after college , into financial advice about 4 years back.Since I was not professionally in IT for too long ( though I performed a number of functions which are considered professional ) I may not be the most qualified to answer this , but here goes ( forgive the length ) : IT for me just became too impersonal and cutthroat .
I 'm more the type who would rather enjoy my job and take satisfaction in actually doing something meaningful for someone than just collecting a paycheck .
If it means less pay , so be it.The pay cut has been quite significant , but that stems from personal issues with helping immediate family .
The pay cut is mostly because I do n't ( am not charming enough to ) wantonly sell insurance , funds , and annuities , but rather good advice .
That 's not the way to make a fast buck in this business.Also , my age presents an initial barrier ( yours might ?
) to the instant rapport of those with gray hair ( counts for a lot in this business ) .
I say this because experience matters a lot ( obviously ) , so if you 've trained your whole life for IT and decide to go elsewhere you may end up with the Catch-22 so many college grads have : You need experience to get the job , but if you do n't get the job you ca n't get the experience.Speaking of experience , the learning curve was a total mind-fuck and I 'm still always trying to keep up .
If you 're looking for a skill where you can basically fire and forget , finance is not for you .
All those details you learned over your career , and the details before that which landed you the job , AND the details that got you INTERESTED in the details that got you the job ?
Yeah , you have to relearn ALL that stuff , but you 're grown-up now , have less time to tinker ( most likely ) , and probably do n't absorb things as easily as when you were a kid ( if that 's when you began learning IT ) .In terms of working with people , that 's about 50-70 \ % of our job , and we 're excessively analytical when it comes to our practice .
Regarding other jobs ( even VERY scientific/ analytical ones ) many of our clients ' " normal " jobs have a rather significant social component to them it seems .
Many of those skills are somewhat learnable ( if that 's your concern , no offense meant ) .
Personally , I have mixed emotions about client interaction .
It feels wonderful to tell someone how you 've ensured that their kid ( s ) can go to college , or they can retire despite the big downturn we 've had , and see the relief on their face .
You 've just made an enormous difference in their life and that 's no small feat .
OTOH , sometimes getting people to heed prudent advice , working with them when emotions run high ( family death , disability , whatever ) or trying to alter old financial habits can be quite frustrating .
I 've lain awake at night trying to figure out the right questions to ask people to help them realize how critical a piece of advice is.So , to use a cliche , it 's a double-edged sword ( the social aspect ) .
It 's also not a 9-5 job , you can always do more.The analytical aspect is great fun IMO and could never have happened without my time spent debugging code from BASIC in 4th grade to assembler and C in college , in addition to the patience gained from troubleshooting hardware/software in person and over the phone .
Although most financial " professionals " do n't do it , I read prospectuses for insurance contracts , Summary Plan Descriptions , and other docs to ferret out tiny , but often very important details that few other advisors seem to look for or care about .
Yes , I enjoy being so analytical .
It helps set me apart by leveraging the general skills I learned over many years working with computers.I 'd say the change can be incredibly daunting , however if you find creative ways to leverage your skills ( many non-obvious ) with your new field you can become an invaluable worker in that field by bringing new perspectives and skillsets that many others might not have.I 'd say it was worth the transition for me , but I 'm also not your average bear.I hope these answers were n't all excessively obvious and they give at least a little bit of direction for whatever you decide to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I moved from IT, which i worked on in grade school, high school, college, and after college, into financial advice about 4 years back.Since I was not professionally in IT for too long (though I performed a number of functions which are considered professional) I may not be the most qualified to answer this, but here goes (forgive the length):IT for me just became too impersonal and cutthroat.
I'm more the type who would rather enjoy my job and take satisfaction in actually doing something meaningful for someone than just collecting a paycheck.
If it means less pay, so be it.The pay cut has been quite significant, but that stems from personal issues with helping immediate family.
The pay cut is mostly because I don't (am not charming enough to) wantonly sell insurance, funds, and annuities, but rather good advice.
That's not the way to make a fast buck in this business.Also, my age presents an initial barrier (yours might?
) to the instant rapport of those with gray hair (counts for a lot in this business).
I say this because experience matters a lot (obviously), so if you've trained your whole life for IT and decide to go elsewhere you may end up with the Catch-22 so many college grads have: You need experience to get the job, but if you don't get the job you can't get the experience.Speaking of experience, the learning curve was a total mind-fuck and I'm still always trying to keep up.
If you're looking for a skill where you can basically fire and forget, finance is not for you.
All those details you learned over your career, and the details before that which landed you the job, AND the details that got you INTERESTED in the details that got you the job?
Yeah, you have to relearn ALL that stuff, but you're grown-up now, have less time to tinker (most likely), and probably don't absorb things as easily as when you were a kid (if that's when you began learning IT).In terms of working with people, that's about 50-70\% of our job, and we're excessively analytical when it comes to our practice.
Regarding other jobs (even VERY scientific/ analytical ones) many of our clients' "normal" jobs have a rather significant social component to them it seems.
Many of those skills are somewhat learnable (if that's your concern, no offense meant).
Personally, I have mixed emotions about client interaction.
It feels wonderful to tell someone how you've ensured that their kid(s) can go to college, or they can retire despite the big downturn we've had, and see the relief on their face.
You've just made an enormous difference in their life and that's no small feat.
OTOH, sometimes getting people to heed prudent advice, working with them when emotions run high (family death, disability, whatever) or trying to alter old financial habits can be quite frustrating.
I've lain awake at night trying to figure out the right questions to ask people to help them realize how critical a piece of advice is.So, to use a cliche, it's a double-edged sword (the social aspect).
It's also not a 9-5 job, you can always do more.The analytical aspect is great fun IMO and could never have happened without my time spent debugging code from BASIC in 4th grade to assembler and C in college, in addition to the patience gained from troubleshooting hardware/software in person and over the phone.
Although most financial "professionals" don't do it, I read prospectuses for insurance contracts, Summary Plan Descriptions, and other docs to ferret out tiny, but often very important details that few other advisors seem to look for or care about.
Yes, I enjoy being so analytical.
It helps set me apart by leveraging the general skills I learned over many years working with computers.I'd say the change can be incredibly daunting, however if you find creative ways to leverage your skills (many non-obvious) with your new field you can become an invaluable worker in that field by bringing new perspectives and skillsets that many others might not have.I'd say it was worth the transition for me, but I'm also not your average bear.I hope these answers weren't all excessively obvious and they give at least a little bit of direction for whatever you decide to do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894819</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>mrjb</author>
	<datestamp>1256730000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If someone in India can do your job for $11/hr then why should you earn respect?</p></div></blockquote><p> Quality and productivity. Good programmers are rare. Programming work is outsourced to India because it's perceived as being cheaper, not because it's perceived as being better, so you'll have to show the edge in the quality of your work. Which doesn't mean that there aren't any good programmers in India; it just means you'll have to be lucky to run into them (anywhere in the world, by the way).<br> <br>If you can show you can be 10 times as productive as another programmer *in the long run* by offering better quality, you'll earn that respect.<br> <br>Boring as it sounds: Writing documentation helps. Writing unit tests helps. Following best practices helps. If those guys in India (or anywhere else) do that and you don't, they deserve both the respect and the pay, not you. If you want respect, be better.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If someone in India can do your job for $ 11/hr then why should you earn respect ?
Quality and productivity .
Good programmers are rare .
Programming work is outsourced to India because it 's perceived as being cheaper , not because it 's perceived as being better , so you 'll have to show the edge in the quality of your work .
Which does n't mean that there are n't any good programmers in India ; it just means you 'll have to be lucky to run into them ( anywhere in the world , by the way ) .
If you can show you can be 10 times as productive as another programmer * in the long run * by offering better quality , you 'll earn that respect .
Boring as it sounds : Writing documentation helps .
Writing unit tests helps .
Following best practices helps .
If those guys in India ( or anywhere else ) do that and you do n't , they deserve both the respect and the pay , not you .
If you want respect , be better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If someone in India can do your job for $11/hr then why should you earn respect?
Quality and productivity.
Good programmers are rare.
Programming work is outsourced to India because it's perceived as being cheaper, not because it's perceived as being better, so you'll have to show the edge in the quality of your work.
Which doesn't mean that there aren't any good programmers in India; it just means you'll have to be lucky to run into them (anywhere in the world, by the way).
If you can show you can be 10 times as productive as another programmer *in the long run* by offering better quality, you'll earn that respect.
Boring as it sounds: Writing documentation helps.
Writing unit tests helps.
Following best practices helps.
If those guys in India (or anywhere else) do that and you don't, they deserve both the respect and the pay, not you.
If you want respect, be better.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893937</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895845</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256738580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let me add a caveat here for you.</p><p>The problem is we live a two tier society.  Yes, we in IT/engineers live and die in some sort of cut throat free market world.  The problem is the rest of society does not.  Doctors and lawyers restrict their numbers.  Public sector unions get their money and benefits at tax payers expense without any competition.</p><p>So I always ask my fellow engineers why they bother being so free-market when the rest of the world is not.  No point being moral about it.  This is your life.</p><p>Let us imagine a truly free market, small government world.  Yes, IT might still be as brutal, but truth be told, you would work in it for 5-10 years and then quit after you've made your money.  This is how parts of finance and corporate law work.  They are high pay, but high burnout.<br>You'd have enough because of low taxes and the money would hold value due to a stable dollar and low property taxes...  So the ideology is sound.</p><p>However, I would never subject myself to that philosophy, while the rest of society coasts off tax money, monopolies, exclusionary professions.  I will always say that a libertarian society is a the best society for all, especially for the poor.  However, in North America, the way it is now, I would absolutely not be against government money to the IT sector, or professional organization/unions in the field.  As I said, we do not live in a free-market society.  No one else is playing by those rules.  Why should we?</p><p>On this point, I never understand the responses from engineers/IT sector.<br>Oh no, it hurts efficiency.<br>Oh no, it hurts innovation.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... of course it does.  It also gives a nice stable paycheck and plays by the rules the rest of society lives by.  But again, if the rest of society plays by the better libertarian rules, I'll gladly play by those rules.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let me add a caveat here for you.The problem is we live a two tier society .
Yes , we in IT/engineers live and die in some sort of cut throat free market world .
The problem is the rest of society does not .
Doctors and lawyers restrict their numbers .
Public sector unions get their money and benefits at tax payers expense without any competition.So I always ask my fellow engineers why they bother being so free-market when the rest of the world is not .
No point being moral about it .
This is your life.Let us imagine a truly free market , small government world .
Yes , IT might still be as brutal , but truth be told , you would work in it for 5-10 years and then quit after you 've made your money .
This is how parts of finance and corporate law work .
They are high pay , but high burnout.You 'd have enough because of low taxes and the money would hold value due to a stable dollar and low property taxes... So the ideology is sound.However , I would never subject myself to that philosophy , while the rest of society coasts off tax money , monopolies , exclusionary professions .
I will always say that a libertarian society is a the best society for all , especially for the poor .
However , in North America , the way it is now , I would absolutely not be against government money to the IT sector , or professional organization/unions in the field .
As I said , we do not live in a free-market society .
No one else is playing by those rules .
Why should we ? On this point , I never understand the responses from engineers/IT sector.Oh no , it hurts efficiency.Oh no , it hurts innovation .
... of course it does .
It also gives a nice stable paycheck and plays by the rules the rest of society lives by .
But again , if the rest of society plays by the better libertarian rules , I 'll gladly play by those rules .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let me add a caveat here for you.The problem is we live a two tier society.
Yes, we in IT/engineers live and die in some sort of cut throat free market world.
The problem is the rest of society does not.
Doctors and lawyers restrict their numbers.
Public sector unions get their money and benefits at tax payers expense without any competition.So I always ask my fellow engineers why they bother being so free-market when the rest of the world is not.
No point being moral about it.
This is your life.Let us imagine a truly free market, small government world.
Yes, IT might still be as brutal, but truth be told, you would work in it for 5-10 years and then quit after you've made your money.
This is how parts of finance and corporate law work.
They are high pay, but high burnout.You'd have enough because of low taxes and the money would hold value due to a stable dollar and low property taxes...  So the ideology is sound.However, I would never subject myself to that philosophy, while the rest of society coasts off tax money, monopolies, exclusionary professions.
I will always say that a libertarian society is a the best society for all, especially for the poor.
However, in North America, the way it is now, I would absolutely not be against government money to the IT sector, or professional organization/unions in the field.
As I said, we do not live in a free-market society.
No one else is playing by those rules.
Why should we?On this point, I never understand the responses from engineers/IT sector.Oh no, it hurts efficiency.Oh no, it hurts innovation.
... of course it does.
It also gives a nice stable paycheck and plays by the rules the rest of society lives by.
But again, if the rest of society plays by the better libertarian rules, I'll gladly play by those rules.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893637</id>
	<title>A Change is as Good as a Rest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256670240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hit the same point about 2002. The Dot Com thing had soured and I was just tired of the whole game. I did a two year volunteering gig in the South Pacific... and never left.</p><p>It's fascinating, because a lot of the stuff I was doing when I first arrived here was the same I'd been doing 10 years before (I mean literally the same technology). Since then I've moved along and now I'm pretty much current with the kind of things I'd likely be doing back in Canada (technical manager for a local university institution). Just this week I submitted patches to a wireless network driver for the latest version of Ubuntu. So what's changed for me? Just this:</p><p>IT work in development has taken me to cities, towns and villages in Fiji, the Solomon Islands, East Timor and Vanuatu (where I now live). I'll be off to South Africa in a little over a month.</p><p>I have faced crazy demands in the past (Windows activation from a place with no networks and no telephones? Keeping the minutes for a week-long meeting in a town with no power?) I've had malaria and been hospitalised with kidney stones from dehydration. I've shared the room with rats, roaches, fire ants and geckoes. I've slept on cement and eaten more cold rice than I ever thought possible.</p><p>But I've also had breakfast in the clouds, been to the brink of volcanoes, rambled in rain forest and snorkeled in coral reefs so often that it's run-of-the-mill, dined with Ministers of state... and helped make people's lives a little more liveable.</p><p>The work is engaging, challenging and stretches one's creativity to the limit, trying to figure out how to mesh Internet technologies with cultures largely unchanged in the last 3000 years. It pays a tiny fraction of what I used to make, but the rewards are infinitely greater.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hit the same point about 2002 .
The Dot Com thing had soured and I was just tired of the whole game .
I did a two year volunteering gig in the South Pacific... and never left.It 's fascinating , because a lot of the stuff I was doing when I first arrived here was the same I 'd been doing 10 years before ( I mean literally the same technology ) .
Since then I 've moved along and now I 'm pretty much current with the kind of things I 'd likely be doing back in Canada ( technical manager for a local university institution ) .
Just this week I submitted patches to a wireless network driver for the latest version of Ubuntu .
So what 's changed for me ?
Just this : IT work in development has taken me to cities , towns and villages in Fiji , the Solomon Islands , East Timor and Vanuatu ( where I now live ) .
I 'll be off to South Africa in a little over a month.I have faced crazy demands in the past ( Windows activation from a place with no networks and no telephones ?
Keeping the minutes for a week-long meeting in a town with no power ?
) I 've had malaria and been hospitalised with kidney stones from dehydration .
I 've shared the room with rats , roaches , fire ants and geckoes .
I 've slept on cement and eaten more cold rice than I ever thought possible.But I 've also had breakfast in the clouds , been to the brink of volcanoes , rambled in rain forest and snorkeled in coral reefs so often that it 's run-of-the-mill , dined with Ministers of state... and helped make people 's lives a little more liveable.The work is engaging , challenging and stretches one 's creativity to the limit , trying to figure out how to mesh Internet technologies with cultures largely unchanged in the last 3000 years .
It pays a tiny fraction of what I used to make , but the rewards are infinitely greater .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hit the same point about 2002.
The Dot Com thing had soured and I was just tired of the whole game.
I did a two year volunteering gig in the South Pacific... and never left.It's fascinating, because a lot of the stuff I was doing when I first arrived here was the same I'd been doing 10 years before (I mean literally the same technology).
Since then I've moved along and now I'm pretty much current with the kind of things I'd likely be doing back in Canada (technical manager for a local university institution).
Just this week I submitted patches to a wireless network driver for the latest version of Ubuntu.
So what's changed for me?
Just this:IT work in development has taken me to cities, towns and villages in Fiji, the Solomon Islands, East Timor and Vanuatu (where I now live).
I'll be off to South Africa in a little over a month.I have faced crazy demands in the past (Windows activation from a place with no networks and no telephones?
Keeping the minutes for a week-long meeting in a town with no power?
) I've had malaria and been hospitalised with kidney stones from dehydration.
I've shared the room with rats, roaches, fire ants and geckoes.
I've slept on cement and eaten more cold rice than I ever thought possible.But I've also had breakfast in the clouds, been to the brink of volcanoes, rambled in rain forest and snorkeled in coral reefs so often that it's run-of-the-mill, dined with Ministers of state... and helped make people's lives a little more liveable.The work is engaging, challenging and stretches one's creativity to the limit, trying to figure out how to mesh Internet technologies with cultures largely unchanged in the last 3000 years.
It pays a tiny fraction of what I used to make, but the rewards are infinitely greater.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895909</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>intheshelter</author>
	<datestamp>1256739060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, I agree with tthe poster.  Most management is incompetent.  IT are treated like dirt.  Jobs are being given to Indian contractors instead of local IT resources.</p><p>If you don't have that experience then I'm happy for you, but I would say you are the exception and not the rule.   I don't think he/she has an "attitude" so much as disgust at what is being observed every day at work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , I agree with tthe poster .
Most management is incompetent .
IT are treated like dirt .
Jobs are being given to Indian contractors instead of local IT resources.If you do n't have that experience then I 'm happy for you , but I would say you are the exception and not the rule .
I do n't think he/she has an " attitude " so much as disgust at what is being observed every day at work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, I agree with tthe poster.
Most management is incompetent.
IT are treated like dirt.
Jobs are being given to Indian contractors instead of local IT resources.If you don't have that experience then I'm happy for you, but I would say you are the exception and not the rule.
I don't think he/she has an "attitude" so much as disgust at what is being observed every day at work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893631</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29894095</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256762820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Jon, is that you?</p><p>All those Ayn Rand nonsense. Told you she's just a lousy starlet. Part existentialist, part empowerment crap.</p><p>We have to stop calling those "philosophy". It's all Wittgenstein's fault.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Jon , is that you ? All those Ayn Rand nonsense .
Told you she 's just a lousy starlet .
Part existentialist , part empowerment crap.We have to stop calling those " philosophy " .
It 's all Wittgenstein 's fault .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Jon, is that you?All those Ayn Rand nonsense.
Told you she's just a lousy starlet.
Part existentialist, part empowerment crap.We have to stop calling those "philosophy".
It's all Wittgenstein's fault.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29906199</id>
	<title>Re:SciOps</title>
	<author>jcluthe</author>
	<datestamp>1256747280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree with this post. I am not working on telescopes, but I managed to parlay an IT job into a more specific security related job. The security job is not what is important, the important part is that everything is going digital, everything is run by a server of some sort. And sometimes the IT group is not skilled enough for the specific task.

Now I am the only IT guy in an organization that is purely security related. I know everything about every PCs and server we have control of, and the chumps in IT that I used to work with now have to maintain my corporate PC.

Like shag said, make your knowledge work for you, just sayin'.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with this post .
I am not working on telescopes , but I managed to parlay an IT job into a more specific security related job .
The security job is not what is important , the important part is that everything is going digital , everything is run by a server of some sort .
And sometimes the IT group is not skilled enough for the specific task .
Now I am the only IT guy in an organization that is purely security related .
I know everything about every PCs and server we have control of , and the chumps in IT that I used to work with now have to maintain my corporate PC .
Like shag said , make your knowledge work for you , just sayin' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with this post.
I am not working on telescopes, but I managed to parlay an IT job into a more specific security related job.
The security job is not what is important, the important part is that everything is going digital, everything is run by a server of some sort.
And sometimes the IT group is not skilled enough for the specific task.
Now I am the only IT guy in an organization that is purely security related.
I know everything about every PCs and server we have control of, and the chumps in IT that I used to work with now have to maintain my corporate PC.
Like shag said, make your knowledge work for you, just sayin'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893771</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29895521</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256736420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
If "a race-to-the-bottom, out-compete-each-other-for-the-good-of-mankind philosophy" is all you got from Rand, you missed the point.
</p><p>
"I swear, by my life and love of it, I will never live for the sake of another person, nor ask another person to live for the sake of me."
</p><p>
I'm not seeing what you say in that sentence, which was the money quote for the ENTIRE BOOK of Atlas Shrugged.  If you feel that you're "living for the sake of another", you need to be job shopping *now*, because one of two things is happening:
</p><p>
1.  You are undervalued where you are, and need to go to somewhere else that will value your skills properly.
</p><p>
2.  You *think* you are undervalued, and need a dose of reality to let you know where you really are on the chain.
</p><p>
Either one of these will be fixed by doing some interviews and getting some feedback outside of your existing "pond".
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If " a race-to-the-bottom , out-compete-each-other-for-the-good-of-mankind philosophy " is all you got from Rand , you missed the point .
" I swear , by my life and love of it , I will never live for the sake of another person , nor ask another person to live for the sake of me .
" I 'm not seeing what you say in that sentence , which was the money quote for the ENTIRE BOOK of Atlas Shrugged .
If you feel that you 're " living for the sake of another " , you need to be job shopping * now * , because one of two things is happening : 1 .
You are undervalued where you are , and need to go to somewhere else that will value your skills properly .
2. You * think * you are undervalued , and need a dose of reality to let you know where you really are on the chain .
Either one of these will be fixed by doing some interviews and getting some feedback outside of your existing " pond " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
If "a race-to-the-bottom, out-compete-each-other-for-the-good-of-mankind philosophy" is all you got from Rand, you missed the point.
"I swear, by my life and love of it, I will never live for the sake of another person, nor ask another person to live for the sake of me.
"

I'm not seeing what you say in that sentence, which was the money quote for the ENTIRE BOOK of Atlas Shrugged.
If you feel that you're "living for the sake of another", you need to be job shopping *now*, because one of two things is happening:

1.
You are undervalued where you are, and need to go to somewhere else that will value your skills properly.
2.  You *think* you are undervalued, and need a dose of reality to let you know where you really are on the chain.
Either one of these will be fixed by doing some interviews and getting some feedback outside of your existing "pond".

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29897565</id>
	<title>Re:Govt Security, Accounting, Jobs with boots Here</title>
	<author>Interoperable</author>
	<datestamp>1256745780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rand's philosophy was never to suggest that you would make things better for yourself by offering services at increasingly slimmer profit margins. It's about striving to be fucking good at what you do and demanding a premium price for your services. She (and I) would argue that you advance by making yourself indispensable to the companies you work for through providing clearly superior service.</p><p>If you're constantly under the thumb of management then you're part of the unimpressive masses in Rand's picture; doomed to either ride the coat-tails of the industrialists or to leech their profit, unearned, by extortion. Your only hope is to offer invaluable intellectual product and demand every penny of it's worth. Choosing to collectively work less hard while demanding more money results in a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game\_theory" title="wikipedia.org">game</a> [wikipedia.org] at an unstable equilibrium that is doomed to fall back into competition unless it's backed by government supported extortion.</p><p>Be the indispensable, top sysadmin, the linux guru that runs the entire company's infrastructure, be the guy wrote the software that runs everything. If you're not, Rand's philosophy really isn't designed to make you happy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rand 's philosophy was never to suggest that you would make things better for yourself by offering services at increasingly slimmer profit margins .
It 's about striving to be fucking good at what you do and demanding a premium price for your services .
She ( and I ) would argue that you advance by making yourself indispensable to the companies you work for through providing clearly superior service.If you 're constantly under the thumb of management then you 're part of the unimpressive masses in Rand 's picture ; doomed to either ride the coat-tails of the industrialists or to leech their profit , unearned , by extortion .
Your only hope is to offer invaluable intellectual product and demand every penny of it 's worth .
Choosing to collectively work less hard while demanding more money results in a game [ wikipedia.org ] at an unstable equilibrium that is doomed to fall back into competition unless it 's backed by government supported extortion.Be the indispensable , top sysadmin , the linux guru that runs the entire company 's infrastructure , be the guy wrote the software that runs everything .
If you 're not , Rand 's philosophy really is n't designed to make you happy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rand's philosophy was never to suggest that you would make things better for yourself by offering services at increasingly slimmer profit margins.
It's about striving to be fucking good at what you do and demanding a premium price for your services.
She (and I) would argue that you advance by making yourself indispensable to the companies you work for through providing clearly superior service.If you're constantly under the thumb of management then you're part of the unimpressive masses in Rand's picture; doomed to either ride the coat-tails of the industrialists or to leech their profit, unearned, by extortion.
Your only hope is to offer invaluable intellectual product and demand every penny of it's worth.
Choosing to collectively work less hard while demanding more money results in a game [wikipedia.org] at an unstable equilibrium that is doomed to fall back into competition unless it's backed by government supported extortion.Be the indispensable, top sysadmin, the linux guru that runs the entire company's infrastructure, be the guy wrote the software that runs everything.
If you're not, Rand's philosophy really isn't designed to make you happy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_27_2127259.29893719</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_27_2127259_101</id>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_27_2127259_125</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_27_2127259_4</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_27_2127259_35</id>
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