<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_21_1454209</id>
	<title>Toyota Experimenting With Joystick Control For Cars</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1256140140000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>alphadogg writes <i>"Today it's the stuff of video games, but Toyota is <a href="http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/102109-goodbye-steering-wheel-here-comes.html">experimenting with joystick control for a new breed of compact cars</a> and transporters. The world's biggest car maker built the technology into a couple of concept vehicles that were on display Wednesday at the Tokyo Motor Show. The FT-EV II, which got its world premiere at the event, is a compact electric vehicle designed for short trips. The car retains seats for four passengers despite being much more compact than most other cars, and packs drive-by-wire technology so it can be controlled with a joystick. The car's steering, braking and acceleration can be controlled by hand so foot pedals aren't needed, freeing up space to provide more legroom for the driver."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>alphadogg writes " Today it 's the stuff of video games , but Toyota is experimenting with joystick control for a new breed of compact cars and transporters .
The world 's biggest car maker built the technology into a couple of concept vehicles that were on display Wednesday at the Tokyo Motor Show .
The FT-EV II , which got its world premiere at the event , is a compact electric vehicle designed for short trips .
The car retains seats for four passengers despite being much more compact than most other cars , and packs drive-by-wire technology so it can be controlled with a joystick .
The car 's steering , braking and acceleration can be controlled by hand so foot pedals are n't needed , freeing up space to provide more legroom for the driver .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>alphadogg writes "Today it's the stuff of video games, but Toyota is experimenting with joystick control for a new breed of compact cars and transporters.
The world's biggest car maker built the technology into a couple of concept vehicles that were on display Wednesday at the Tokyo Motor Show.
The FT-EV II, which got its world premiere at the event, is a compact electric vehicle designed for short trips.
The car retains seats for four passengers despite being much more compact than most other cars, and packs drive-by-wire technology so it can be controlled with a joystick.
The car's steering, braking and acceleration can be controlled by hand so foot pedals aren't needed, freeing up space to provide more legroom for the driver.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824397</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256144640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A joystick can be linked in the same way that a steering wheel can.  Look at aircraft: many older ones have joysticks. Most newer craft have yokes (essentially a wheel), but both are linked to the control surfaces physically in much the same way that a steering wheel is linked to a car's wheels.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A joystick can be linked in the same way that a steering wheel can .
Look at aircraft : many older ones have joysticks .
Most newer craft have yokes ( essentially a wheel ) , but both are linked to the control surfaces physically in much the same way that a steering wheel is linked to a car 's wheels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A joystick can be linked in the same way that a steering wheel can.
Look at aircraft: many older ones have joysticks.
Most newer craft have yokes (essentially a wheel), but both are linked to the control surfaces physically in much the same way that a steering wheel is linked to a car's wheels.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824317</id>
	<title>Finally</title>
	<author>decipher\_saint</author>
	<datestamp>1256144340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A car with yaw control...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A car with yaw control.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A car with yaw control...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824533</id>
	<title>I think I've seen this before, if I recall...</title>
	<author>sixteenbitsamurai</author>
	<datestamp>1256145300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're in a JohnnyCab!</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're in a JohnnyCab !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're in a JohnnyCab!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29835577</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256228220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>P.S. Like your new sig, but I'm still trying to decide whether "lack of" goes better before "it" or "misery". I.e. it will buy lack of misery (lack of money can result in things, but can't buy much if we're being pedantic, which I often am...).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>P.S .
Like your new sig , but I 'm still trying to decide whether " lack of " goes better before " it " or " misery " .
I.e. it will buy lack of misery ( lack of money can result in things , but ca n't buy much if we 're being pedantic , which I often am... ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>P.S.
Like your new sig, but I'm still trying to decide whether "lack of" goes better before "it" or "misery".
I.e. it will buy lack of misery (lack of money can result in things, but can't buy much if we're being pedantic, which I often am...).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826953</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827577</id>
	<title>Re:Old news - Saab tried this in the 80s</title>
	<author>Jyms</author>
	<datestamp>1256157840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Would a tiny wheel have the same shortcomings as a joystick?  I am thinking like remote controls for RC cars.  If not, a little wheel that slides forward to accelerate and backwards to brake would seem convenient.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would a tiny wheel have the same shortcomings as a joystick ?
I am thinking like remote controls for RC cars .
If not , a little wheel that slides forward to accelerate and backwards to brake would seem convenient .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would a tiny wheel have the same shortcomings as a joystick?
I am thinking like remote controls for RC cars.
If not, a little wheel that slides forward to accelerate and backwards to brake would seem convenient.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824255</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825199</id>
	<title>Great... for people with disabilities</title>
	<author>awtbfb</author>
	<datestamp>1256148300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, joystick drive-by-wire systems <a href="http://www.emc-digi.com/explore.cfm/aevitgasbrakesteer/" title="emc-digi.com">have been on the market</a> [emc-digi.com] for some time now. These systems are often installed for people with disabilities who cannot manipulate a regular steering wheel. The vehicle modification industry is a mature market with its own <a href="http://www.nmeda.org/" title="nmeda.org">national association</a> [nmeda.org].<br>
<br>
This concept vehicle addresses one of the core problems - cost. A typical vehicle conversion can run well upwards of $20k (in addition to vehicle cost) and involves massive hardhacking of the vehicle itself. You're pretty much stuck with the vehicle until it dies since you won't be able to sell it. It is far better to have an OEM route.<br>
<br>
In terms of safety and control dynamics, I'm pretty comfortable that these are surmountable issues. <ul>
<li>First, most people who currently get a joystick system receive dedicated training by a <a href="http://www.driver-ed.org/" title="driver-ed.org">certified driver rehabilitation therapist (CDRS)</a> [driver-ed.org]. I would imagine that lessons learned in this field could be distilled down into a more generalized training approach for populations that don't have the severe dexterity impairments present in the current user base.</li>
<li>Second, the years of experience in the vehicle modification business is a good start towards safe control dynamics. Advanced vehicle control systems are the next big leap and are far better than they were even a decade ago. Paired with systems like lane tracking, stability control, and forward ranging systems, it would be quite possible to put a layer of "smarts" over the command inputs.</li>
<li>Third, removing the steering column makes it a lot easier to protect the driver in the event of a crash.</li></ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , joystick drive-by-wire systems have been on the market [ emc-digi.com ] for some time now .
These systems are often installed for people with disabilities who can not manipulate a regular steering wheel .
The vehicle modification industry is a mature market with its own national association [ nmeda.org ] .
This concept vehicle addresses one of the core problems - cost .
A typical vehicle conversion can run well upwards of $ 20k ( in addition to vehicle cost ) and involves massive hardhacking of the vehicle itself .
You 're pretty much stuck with the vehicle until it dies since you wo n't be able to sell it .
It is far better to have an OEM route .
In terms of safety and control dynamics , I 'm pretty comfortable that these are surmountable issues .
First , most people who currently get a joystick system receive dedicated training by a certified driver rehabilitation therapist ( CDRS ) [ driver-ed.org ] .
I would imagine that lessons learned in this field could be distilled down into a more generalized training approach for populations that do n't have the severe dexterity impairments present in the current user base .
Second , the years of experience in the vehicle modification business is a good start towards safe control dynamics .
Advanced vehicle control systems are the next big leap and are far better than they were even a decade ago .
Paired with systems like lane tracking , stability control , and forward ranging systems , it would be quite possible to put a layer of " smarts " over the command inputs .
Third , removing the steering column makes it a lot easier to protect the driver in the event of a crash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, joystick drive-by-wire systems have been on the market [emc-digi.com] for some time now.
These systems are often installed for people with disabilities who cannot manipulate a regular steering wheel.
The vehicle modification industry is a mature market with its own national association [nmeda.org].
This concept vehicle addresses one of the core problems - cost.
A typical vehicle conversion can run well upwards of $20k (in addition to vehicle cost) and involves massive hardhacking of the vehicle itself.
You're pretty much stuck with the vehicle until it dies since you won't be able to sell it.
It is far better to have an OEM route.
In terms of safety and control dynamics, I'm pretty comfortable that these are surmountable issues.
First, most people who currently get a joystick system receive dedicated training by a certified driver rehabilitation therapist (CDRS) [driver-ed.org].
I would imagine that lessons learned in this field could be distilled down into a more generalized training approach for populations that don't have the severe dexterity impairments present in the current user base.
Second, the years of experience in the vehicle modification business is a good start towards safe control dynamics.
Advanced vehicle control systems are the next big leap and are far better than they were even a decade ago.
Paired with systems like lane tracking, stability control, and forward ranging systems, it would be quite possible to put a layer of "smarts" over the command inputs.
Third, removing the steering column makes it a lot easier to protect the driver in the event of a crash.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29834129</id>
	<title>Re:Joystick control</title>
	<author>DRACO-</author>
	<datestamp>1256219580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I drive quite well in video games, they are about the only video games I really replay over and over and over with thumb sticks or joysticks.  The natural forward/back accel/brake left/right control is just fine.  Been playing for decades.  It's not like I'd be handed a steering wheel object and be expected to turn it forward and backward to steer.  Though I have driven forklifts sitting side saddle forward and reverse at full speed without a problem.  All the trouble is, is a little training.</p><p>Changing the QWERTY keyboard, ever use a cell phone?  I used to type on a 10 key faster than a QWERTY layout on a cell phone.  Now that I've had a QWERTY on my cell phone for over a year I type just as fast.  I sometimes type without looking, even with the altered punctuation, symbols and number layouts.</p><p>If you dont like it, dont buy the car.  Someone will like it and few others will acutally NEED it to operate a vehicle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I drive quite well in video games , they are about the only video games I really replay over and over and over with thumb sticks or joysticks .
The natural forward/back accel/brake left/right control is just fine .
Been playing for decades .
It 's not like I 'd be handed a steering wheel object and be expected to turn it forward and backward to steer .
Though I have driven forklifts sitting side saddle forward and reverse at full speed without a problem .
All the trouble is , is a little training.Changing the QWERTY keyboard , ever use a cell phone ?
I used to type on a 10 key faster than a QWERTY layout on a cell phone .
Now that I 've had a QWERTY on my cell phone for over a year I type just as fast .
I sometimes type without looking , even with the altered punctuation , symbols and number layouts.If you dont like it , dont buy the car .
Someone will like it and few others will acutally NEED it to operate a vehicle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I drive quite well in video games, they are about the only video games I really replay over and over and over with thumb sticks or joysticks.
The natural forward/back accel/brake left/right control is just fine.
Been playing for decades.
It's not like I'd be handed a steering wheel object and be expected to turn it forward and backward to steer.
Though I have driven forklifts sitting side saddle forward and reverse at full speed without a problem.
All the trouble is, is a little training.Changing the QWERTY keyboard, ever use a cell phone?
I used to type on a 10 key faster than a QWERTY layout on a cell phone.
Now that I've had a QWERTY on my cell phone for over a year I type just as fast.
I sometimes type without looking, even with the altered punctuation, symbols and number layouts.If you dont like it, dont buy the car.
Someone will like it and few others will acutally NEED it to operate a vehicle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825275</id>
	<title>Has been done before</title>
	<author>the\_other\_chewey</author>
	<datestamp>1256148660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This has been done 13(!) years ago by Mercedes Benz already, in their <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz\_F\_200\_Imagination" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">F 200</a> [wikipedia.org] concept car.<br>
<br>
It was entirely drive-by-wire using a sidestick for acceleration and braking too.<br>
Interesting detail: Accelerating and braking was done by measuring the force applied<br>
forwards and backwards on the stick <b>without moving the stick</b>, so the only dimension<br>
in wich the stick actually moved was laterally for steering.<br>
<br>
I've talked to people who have driven the thing, and apparently this worked very well.<br>
The decoupling of the steering controls from external influences was actually seen as a<br>
feature: The stick defined a steering angle, and the actual steering was handled by<br>
the electronics, correcting for bumps or rough underground as needed. This made for<br>
smooth driving and steering even on wet cobblestone pavement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This has been done 13 ( !
) years ago by Mercedes Benz already , in their F 200 [ wikipedia.org ] concept car .
It was entirely drive-by-wire using a sidestick for acceleration and braking too .
Interesting detail : Accelerating and braking was done by measuring the force applied forwards and backwards on the stick without moving the stick , so the only dimension in wich the stick actually moved was laterally for steering .
I 've talked to people who have driven the thing , and apparently this worked very well .
The decoupling of the steering controls from external influences was actually seen as a feature : The stick defined a steering angle , and the actual steering was handled by the electronics , correcting for bumps or rough underground as needed .
This made for smooth driving and steering even on wet cobblestone pavement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has been done 13(!
) years ago by Mercedes Benz already, in their F 200 [wikipedia.org] concept car.
It was entirely drive-by-wire using a sidestick for acceleration and braking too.
Interesting detail: Accelerating and braking was done by measuring the force applied
forwards and backwards on the stick without moving the stick, so the only dimension
in wich the stick actually moved was laterally for steering.
I've talked to people who have driven the thing, and apparently this worked very well.
The decoupling of the steering controls from external influences was actually seen as a
feature: The stick defined a steering angle, and the actual steering was handled by
the electronics, correcting for bumps or rough underground as needed.
This made for
smooth driving and steering even on wet cobblestone pavement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824749</id>
	<title>Issue with steer by wire</title>
	<author>slinks</author>
	<datestamp>1256146380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this is just a steer by wire system with a joy stick as the input dev.</p><p>I was on a design project in college. we built a steer by wire system for GM. although they were just using it as a hiring pool.</p><p>The advantages:<br>-no steering column. ie safer,lighter, no more hydraulics<br>-you can mess with the controls to change the feel of the steering, responsive, auto steer, ect.<br>-you can standardize steering units, just drop it in any car</p><p>The Disadvantages:<br>-no hard fail safe. although simple redundancy and smart design can make the fail probability very small.<br>-poor software/controls error handling can now kill(i smell a new micheal bay movie!)</p><p>in hindsight the project wasnt as interesting as the possibilities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this is just a steer by wire system with a joy stick as the input dev.I was on a design project in college .
we built a steer by wire system for GM .
although they were just using it as a hiring pool.The advantages : -no steering column .
ie safer,lighter , no more hydraulics-you can mess with the controls to change the feel of the steering , responsive , auto steer , ect.-you can standardize steering units , just drop it in any carThe Disadvantages : -no hard fail safe .
although simple redundancy and smart design can make the fail probability very small.-poor software/controls error handling can now kill ( i smell a new micheal bay movie !
) in hindsight the project wasnt as interesting as the possibilities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this is just a steer by wire system with a joy stick as the input dev.I was on a design project in college.
we built a steer by wire system for GM.
although they were just using it as a hiring pool.The advantages:-no steering column.
ie safer,lighter, no more hydraulics-you can mess with the controls to change the feel of the steering, responsive, auto steer, ect.-you can standardize steering units, just drop it in any carThe Disadvantages:-no hard fail safe.
although simple redundancy and smart design can make the fail probability very small.-poor software/controls error handling can now kill(i smell a new micheal bay movie!
)in hindsight the project wasnt as interesting as the possibilities.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825207</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>Gulthek</author>
	<datestamp>1256148300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves, the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate.<br>or your just asking for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation.</p></div><p>You've never driven a motorcycle. Throttle, brake, and steering are all in the handles.</p><p>For reference:</p><p>Left handle:<br>- squeeze: clutch<br>- rotate: n/a</p><p>Right handle:<br>- squeeze: front (primary) brake<br>- rotate: acceleration (note how front braking and acceleration are mutually exclusive)</p><p>Left foot:<br>- lift up on shifter: up one gear<br>- push down on shifter: down one gear</p><p>Right foot:<br>- push down on brake level: rear brake</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves , the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate.or your just asking for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation.You 've never driven a motorcycle .
Throttle , brake , and steering are all in the handles.For reference : Left handle : - squeeze : clutch- rotate : n/aRight handle : - squeeze : front ( primary ) brake- rotate : acceleration ( note how front braking and acceleration are mutually exclusive ) Left foot : - lift up on shifter : up one gear- push down on shifter : down one gearRight foot : - push down on brake level : rear brake</tokentext>
<sentencetext> A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves, the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate.or your just asking for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation.You've never driven a motorcycle.
Throttle, brake, and steering are all in the handles.For reference:Left handle:- squeeze: clutch- rotate: n/aRight handle:- squeeze: front (primary) brake- rotate: acceleration (note how front braking and acceleration are mutually exclusive)Left foot:- lift up on shifter: up one gear- push down on shifter: down one gearRight foot:- push down on brake level: rear brake
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827093</id>
	<title>Re:I can't believe the naysayers</title>
	<author>IndustrialComplex</author>
	<datestamp>1256155740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>It is unbelievable the arguments against this. Fighter aircraft have been controlled by joysticks for years. The argument concerning power steering failure is plain BS. I'm now 56 and I have experienced power steering failure once in my life and the car let me know it was coming well ahead of the actual failure. MTBF is very high and not an issue.</i></p><p>IAAAE (I am an Avionics Engineer).</p><p>Think of the forces:<br>In an aircraft, the primary force you feel will be perpendicular to the floor of the aircraft.  In a car, the forces you feel will be parallel to the floor of the car.  Therefore the forces you feel in the aircraft will always be perpendicular to the plane of motion of the joystick.  In a car, the forces you feel will always be parallel to the plane of motion of the joystick.</p><p>Think of the dimensions:<br>The joystick on an aircraft controls Pitch and Roll.  The pedals control Yaw.<br>The joystick in a car would control Yaw.</p><p>So to further address your issue, Fighter aircraft are NOT controlled by joysticks when you look at it from the perspective of Yaw.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is unbelievable the arguments against this .
Fighter aircraft have been controlled by joysticks for years .
The argument concerning power steering failure is plain BS .
I 'm now 56 and I have experienced power steering failure once in my life and the car let me know it was coming well ahead of the actual failure .
MTBF is very high and not an issue.IAAAE ( I am an Avionics Engineer ) .Think of the forces : In an aircraft , the primary force you feel will be perpendicular to the floor of the aircraft .
In a car , the forces you feel will be parallel to the floor of the car .
Therefore the forces you feel in the aircraft will always be perpendicular to the plane of motion of the joystick .
In a car , the forces you feel will always be parallel to the plane of motion of the joystick.Think of the dimensions : The joystick on an aircraft controls Pitch and Roll .
The pedals control Yaw.The joystick in a car would control Yaw.So to further address your issue , Fighter aircraft are NOT controlled by joysticks when you look at it from the perspective of Yaw .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is unbelievable the arguments against this.
Fighter aircraft have been controlled by joysticks for years.
The argument concerning power steering failure is plain BS.
I'm now 56 and I have experienced power steering failure once in my life and the car let me know it was coming well ahead of the actual failure.
MTBF is very high and not an issue.IAAAE (I am an Avionics Engineer).Think of the forces:In an aircraft, the primary force you feel will be perpendicular to the floor of the aircraft.
In a car, the forces you feel will be parallel to the floor of the car.
Therefore the forces you feel in the aircraft will always be perpendicular to the plane of motion of the joystick.
In a car, the forces you feel will always be parallel to the plane of motion of the joystick.Think of the dimensions:The joystick on an aircraft controls Pitch and Roll.
The pedals control Yaw.The joystick in a car would control Yaw.So to further address your issue, Fighter aircraft are NOT controlled by joysticks when you look at it from the perspective of Yaw.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825105</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825533</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>pnewhook</author>
	<datestamp>1256149560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Airbuses also have tiny little bathrooms that you have to be a member of Cirque du Soleil to contortion yourself to actually use the damn thing if you are any more than 5'8". Hate those bathrooms.
</p><p>Boeing has far nicer bathrooms.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Airbuses also have tiny little bathrooms that you have to be a member of Cirque du Soleil to contortion yourself to actually use the damn thing if you are any more than 5'8 " .
Hate those bathrooms .
Boeing has far nicer bathrooms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Airbuses also have tiny little bathrooms that you have to be a member of Cirque du Soleil to contortion yourself to actually use the damn thing if you are any more than 5'8".
Hate those bathrooms.
Boeing has far nicer bathrooms.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824641</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827493</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>Carbaholic</author>
	<datestamp>1256157540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I share your concern, but aren't some airplanes controlled by a joystick of sorts?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I share your concern , but are n't some airplanes controlled by a joystick of sorts ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I share your concern, but aren't some airplanes controlled by a joystick of sorts?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825815</id>
	<title>"Dualing" drivers</title>
	<author>linuxwrangler</author>
	<datestamp>1256150580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If controls were centred and symmetric then the car could be driven from either side. I don't know how well most right-handed people would adjust to using their left-hand but it's probably not a problem - when I fly power planes I hold the wheel/yoke with the left and the throttle with the right while in gliders I hold the stick in the right and the spoilers/speed-brake in the left.</p><p>What this would mean is no more changes needed for right-hand/left-hand drive countries or for delivery vehicles where the driver enters/exits from the curb-side.</p><p>It would also mean that the front occupants could switch off while driving - nice for grabbing a snack/nap/phone-call.</p><p>But there are pitfalls. We've seen aircraft accidents where there was confusion over who was flying. And "back-seat-drivers" would no longer be limited to yapping - they could grab the stick. And for law-enforcement there would be the issue of having to prove who was at the control when the vehicle was stopped for speeding, drunk, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If controls were centred and symmetric then the car could be driven from either side .
I do n't know how well most right-handed people would adjust to using their left-hand but it 's probably not a problem - when I fly power planes I hold the wheel/yoke with the left and the throttle with the right while in gliders I hold the stick in the right and the spoilers/speed-brake in the left.What this would mean is no more changes needed for right-hand/left-hand drive countries or for delivery vehicles where the driver enters/exits from the curb-side.It would also mean that the front occupants could switch off while driving - nice for grabbing a snack/nap/phone-call.But there are pitfalls .
We 've seen aircraft accidents where there was confusion over who was flying .
And " back-seat-drivers " would no longer be limited to yapping - they could grab the stick .
And for law-enforcement there would be the issue of having to prove who was at the control when the vehicle was stopped for speeding , drunk , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If controls were centred and symmetric then the car could be driven from either side.
I don't know how well most right-handed people would adjust to using their left-hand but it's probably not a problem - when I fly power planes I hold the wheel/yoke with the left and the throttle with the right while in gliders I hold the stick in the right and the spoilers/speed-brake in the left.What this would mean is no more changes needed for right-hand/left-hand drive countries or for delivery vehicles where the driver enters/exits from the curb-side.It would also mean that the front occupants could switch off while driving - nice for grabbing a snack/nap/phone-call.But there are pitfalls.
We've seen aircraft accidents where there was confusion over who was flying.
And "back-seat-drivers" would no longer be limited to yapping - they could grab the stick.
And for law-enforcement there would be the issue of having to prove who was at the control when the vehicle was stopped for speeding, drunk, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827149</id>
	<title>Re:Johnny Cab</title>
	<author>StikyPad</author>
	<datestamp>1256155980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Followed shortly thereafter by a specialized <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013B30SY" title="amazon.com">add-on</a> [amazon.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Followed shortly thereafter by a specialized add-on [ amazon.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Followed shortly thereafter by a specialized add-on [amazon.com].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29828521</id>
	<title>Re:Old news - Saab tried this in the 80s</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256118540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Older than you think, NASA had it in the '70's:</p><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar\_rover#Control\_and\_navigation</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Older than you think , NASA had it in the '70 's : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar \ _rover # Control \ _and \ _navigation</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Older than you think, NASA had it in the '70's:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar\_rover#Control\_and\_navigation</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824255</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824821</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>smitty777</author>
	<datestamp>1256146740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>WRT #2, another unintended effect.  Imagine someone hits you from the front.  The inertia of the impact would force your hand forward, causing you to *speed up*.   Don't forget about getting your arm bumped, spilling coffee...</p><p>At least now you can do a barrel roll.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WRT # 2 , another unintended effect .
Imagine someone hits you from the front .
The inertia of the impact would force your hand forward , causing you to * speed up * .
Do n't forget about getting your arm bumped , spilling coffee...At least now you can do a barrel roll .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WRT #2, another unintended effect.
Imagine someone hits you from the front.
The inertia of the impact would force your hand forward, causing you to *speed up*.
Don't forget about getting your arm bumped, spilling coffee...At least now you can do a barrel roll.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825375</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>Skater</author>
	<datestamp>1256149080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really?  I used to own an '87 Escort (granted a much smaller, lighter car) that didn't have power steering, and the only time I really noticed a large difference in everyday driving was in a tight parking lot where I had to turn the wheel, then move the car (instead of being able to turn the wheel while the car was moving).</p><p>My dad did have an Olds or something (early 90s era, I think) that occasionally would lose power steering on right turns.  That was always fun.  It was harder to turn when it happened but not so hard that it was nearly impossible to do it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ?
I used to own an '87 Escort ( granted a much smaller , lighter car ) that did n't have power steering , and the only time I really noticed a large difference in everyday driving was in a tight parking lot where I had to turn the wheel , then move the car ( instead of being able to turn the wheel while the car was moving ) .My dad did have an Olds or something ( early 90s era , I think ) that occasionally would lose power steering on right turns .
That was always fun .
It was harder to turn when it happened but not so hard that it was nearly impossible to do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really?
I used to own an '87 Escort (granted a much smaller, lighter car) that didn't have power steering, and the only time I really noticed a large difference in everyday driving was in a tight parking lot where I had to turn the wheel, then move the car (instead of being able to turn the wheel while the car was moving).My dad did have an Olds or something (early 90s era, I think) that occasionally would lose power steering on right turns.
That was always fun.
It was harder to turn when it happened but not so hard that it was nearly impossible to do it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827843</id>
	<title>Re:I can't believe the naysayers</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256115780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I'm now 56 and I have experienced power steering failure once in my life and the car let me know it was coming well ahead of the actual failure</i></p><p>The only time I've ever experienced the power steering failing was when the engine itself died (I'm 57), but that is way more common than just losing power steering. <a href="http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/8/24/173123/565" title="kuro5hin.org">Here's</a> [kuro5hin.org] an account of one time the engine died...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm now 56 and I have experienced power steering failure once in my life and the car let me know it was coming well ahead of the actual failureThe only time I 've ever experienced the power steering failing was when the engine itself died ( I 'm 57 ) , but that is way more common than just losing power steering .
Here 's [ kuro5hin.org ] an account of one time the engine died.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm now 56 and I have experienced power steering failure once in my life and the car let me know it was coming well ahead of the actual failureThe only time I've ever experienced the power steering failing was when the engine itself died (I'm 57), but that is way more common than just losing power steering.
Here's [kuro5hin.org] an account of one time the engine died...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825105</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826047</id>
	<title>Yaw control and just plain control</title>
	<author>Kernel Kludge</author>
	<datestamp>1256151480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's funny and I see you're joking. Maybe you're thinking of the rudder pedals? My RWD cars have always had yaw control. The FWD cars too with some coaxing. Gas, turn, lift, countersteer, gas.... Given enough power you really don't even need to lift.</p><p>Now controlling that with the twitchiness of a joystick even if they do get the feedback right is another matter entirely. And that's coming from a person used to a very quick "sneeze and die" steering ratio. Lateral movement controls in a car are largely inferior than rotary (or pushbutton) controls because they are more easily affected by the movement of your body within the car during bumps and turns. I can hang onto a wheel or dial to steady myself and still provide usable control inputs, not so with a slider.</p><p>To counter the twitchiness, maybe you introduce acceleration into the movement: precise on-center and progressively faster steering (maybe not accel/decel) as you get to the end of travel. I predict that increases the learning curve and implementation difficulties, particularly between differing marques.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's funny and I see you 're joking .
Maybe you 're thinking of the rudder pedals ?
My RWD cars have always had yaw control .
The FWD cars too with some coaxing .
Gas , turn , lift , countersteer , gas.... Given enough power you really do n't even need to lift.Now controlling that with the twitchiness of a joystick even if they do get the feedback right is another matter entirely .
And that 's coming from a person used to a very quick " sneeze and die " steering ratio .
Lateral movement controls in a car are largely inferior than rotary ( or pushbutton ) controls because they are more easily affected by the movement of your body within the car during bumps and turns .
I can hang onto a wheel or dial to steady myself and still provide usable control inputs , not so with a slider.To counter the twitchiness , maybe you introduce acceleration into the movement : precise on-center and progressively faster steering ( maybe not accel/decel ) as you get to the end of travel .
I predict that increases the learning curve and implementation difficulties , particularly between differing marques .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's funny and I see you're joking.
Maybe you're thinking of the rudder pedals?
My RWD cars have always had yaw control.
The FWD cars too with some coaxing.
Gas, turn, lift, countersteer, gas.... Given enough power you really don't even need to lift.Now controlling that with the twitchiness of a joystick even if they do get the feedback right is another matter entirely.
And that's coming from a person used to a very quick "sneeze and die" steering ratio.
Lateral movement controls in a car are largely inferior than rotary (or pushbutton) controls because they are more easily affected by the movement of your body within the car during bumps and turns.
I can hang onto a wheel or dial to steady myself and still provide usable control inputs, not so with a slider.To counter the twitchiness, maybe you introduce acceleration into the movement: precise on-center and progressively faster steering (maybe not accel/decel) as you get to the end of travel.
I predict that increases the learning curve and implementation difficulties, particularly between differing marques.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824505</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256145180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Airbus aircraft are completely fly-by-wire, I don't believe there is any mechanical connection to the control surfaces at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Airbus aircraft are completely fly-by-wire , I do n't believe there is any mechanical connection to the control surfaces at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Airbus aircraft are completely fly-by-wire, I don't believe there is any mechanical connection to the control surfaces at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29830517</id>
	<title>Airbag?</title>
	<author>dUN82</author>
	<datestamp>1256130720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I sincerely want to know where my airbag will be...forget the legroom and give me a head-up display helmet,I can fly this...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I sincerely want to know where my airbag will be...forget the legroom and give me a head-up display helmet,I can fly this.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I sincerely want to know where my airbag will be...forget the legroom and give me a head-up display helmet,I can fly this...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29841405</id>
	<title>Re:reversed controls?</title>
	<author>danomac</author>
	<datestamp>1256213940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>will there be some nifty fire buttons?</p></div></blockquote><p>

I would assume the horn button would have to go somewhere. It'd be best as a trigger on the joystick. Man, couple that with an old fashioned hood ornament shaped like a old fashioned aiming device and I'd buy one!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>will there be some nifty fire buttons ?
I would assume the horn button would have to go somewhere .
It 'd be best as a trigger on the joystick .
Man , couple that with an old fashioned hood ornament shaped like a old fashioned aiming device and I 'd buy one !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>will there be some nifty fire buttons?
I would assume the horn button would have to go somewhere.
It'd be best as a trigger on the joystick.
Man, couple that with an old fashioned hood ornament shaped like a old fashioned aiming device and I'd buy one!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824295</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825147</id>
	<title>Two hands driving offer vastly better accuracy</title>
	<author>master\_p</author>
	<datestamp>1256148060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Driving with two hands offers vastly better accuracy than driving by using one hand only. Even with wheels, when precision is required, most drivers use both hands.</p><p>Using a joystick with one hand will be a recipe for disaster.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Driving with two hands offers vastly better accuracy than driving by using one hand only .
Even with wheels , when precision is required , most drivers use both hands.Using a joystick with one hand will be a recipe for disaster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Driving with two hands offers vastly better accuracy than driving by using one hand only.
Even with wheels, when precision is required, most drivers use both hands.Using a joystick with one hand will be a recipe for disaster.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825055</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>AP31R0N</author>
	<datestamp>1256147700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did you SEE that yaw control??</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did you SEE that yaw control ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did you SEE that yaw control?
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29834455</id>
	<title>Re:Special license needed?</title>
	<author>atamido</author>
	<datestamp>1256221920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not having pedals or a steering column to deal with in a crash<br>gives the engineers lots of scope to make<br>cars <em>safer</em>.</p></div><p> The reason for the steering column is the force feedback from steering system, and the ability to steer without power.  If you're going to make a fly by wire joystick, then it should be pretty easy to make a steering wheel fly by wire too.  Max depth would be a couple of inches.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not having pedals or a steering column to deal with in a crashgives the engineers lots of scope to makecars safer .
The reason for the steering column is the force feedback from steering system , and the ability to steer without power .
If you 're going to make a fly by wire joystick , then it should be pretty easy to make a steering wheel fly by wire too .
Max depth would be a couple of inches .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not having pedals or a steering column to deal with in a crashgives the engineers lots of scope to makecars safer.
The reason for the steering column is the force feedback from steering system, and the ability to steer without power.
If you're going to make a fly by wire joystick, then it should be pretty easy to make a steering wheel fly by wire too.
Max depth would be a couple of inches.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29834919</id>
	<title>Re:Numerous issues involved with the joystick cont</title>
	<author>DRACO-</author>
	<datestamp>1256225220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think building an arm rest where at the end is a depression the length of the joystick.  Build the joystick with a flat top to it and have it finger operable.  Add a low pressure pot to the top of the joystick and you have dead man switch.  This design would allow the arm and wrist to rest comfortably and let finger motion control the car with finer movements with less stress than giant stick arm controls.</p><p>Could also transform the 'joystick' into a mini wheel.  In the RC hobby, we use small steering wheels and triggers for throttle.  I dont even use the full wheel for steering.  Half the time I'm barely nudging the steering with a finger.  Though the steering on the controller does have a strong spring to center return.</p><p>I'd kind of like to have left hand throttle/brake and right hand steering, or visa versa. Frankly I drive left hand only as I'm used to driving forklifts and manual transmission cars.</p><p>Another joystick method could be two forward/back axis steering.  Pull right back to turn right, pull left back to turn left.. pushing works the same but have both mechanically attached to each other so you can have wheel like counter force from the opposing hand.  Lever movement could be much longer throw than a joystick.  Throttle/brake can be operated by hat switches, triggers or dials on the tips of the levers.  Throttle could also be twist controlled.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think building an arm rest where at the end is a depression the length of the joystick .
Build the joystick with a flat top to it and have it finger operable .
Add a low pressure pot to the top of the joystick and you have dead man switch .
This design would allow the arm and wrist to rest comfortably and let finger motion control the car with finer movements with less stress than giant stick arm controls.Could also transform the 'joystick ' into a mini wheel .
In the RC hobby , we use small steering wheels and triggers for throttle .
I dont even use the full wheel for steering .
Half the time I 'm barely nudging the steering with a finger .
Though the steering on the controller does have a strong spring to center return.I 'd kind of like to have left hand throttle/brake and right hand steering , or visa versa .
Frankly I drive left hand only as I 'm used to driving forklifts and manual transmission cars.Another joystick method could be two forward/back axis steering .
Pull right back to turn right , pull left back to turn left.. pushing works the same but have both mechanically attached to each other so you can have wheel like counter force from the opposing hand .
Lever movement could be much longer throw than a joystick .
Throttle/brake can be operated by hat switches , triggers or dials on the tips of the levers .
Throttle could also be twist controlled .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think building an arm rest where at the end is a depression the length of the joystick.
Build the joystick with a flat top to it and have it finger operable.
Add a low pressure pot to the top of the joystick and you have dead man switch.
This design would allow the arm and wrist to rest comfortably and let finger motion control the car with finer movements with less stress than giant stick arm controls.Could also transform the 'joystick' into a mini wheel.
In the RC hobby, we use small steering wheels and triggers for throttle.
I dont even use the full wheel for steering.
Half the time I'm barely nudging the steering with a finger.
Though the steering on the controller does have a strong spring to center return.I'd kind of like to have left hand throttle/brake and right hand steering, or visa versa.
Frankly I drive left hand only as I'm used to driving forklifts and manual transmission cars.Another joystick method could be two forward/back axis steering.
Pull right back to turn right, pull left back to turn left.. pushing works the same but have both mechanically attached to each other so you can have wheel like counter force from the opposing hand.
Lever movement could be much longer throw than a joystick.
Throttle/brake can be operated by hat switches, triggers or dials on the tips of the levers.
Throttle could also be twist controlled.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826285</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827221</id>
	<title>Re:Joystick control</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256156280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First of all, the throttle should be push to stop, pull to go. This is safest... in a hard stop, you won't be fighting your own momentum to pull the brakes, it'll be helping you <em>push</em> them. Also, not using your legs should be extremely easy to learn. You probably won't be stomping around looking for brakes that aren't there. (In my opinion.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First of all , the throttle should be push to stop , pull to go .
This is safest... in a hard stop , you wo n't be fighting your own momentum to pull the brakes , it 'll be helping you push them .
Also , not using your legs should be extremely easy to learn .
You probably wo n't be stomping around looking for brakes that are n't there .
( In my opinion .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First of all, the throttle should be push to stop, pull to go.
This is safest... in a hard stop, you won't be fighting your own momentum to pull the brakes, it'll be helping you push them.
Also, not using your legs should be extremely easy to learn.
You probably won't be stomping around looking for brakes that aren't there.
(In my opinion.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825461</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>pnewhook</author>
	<datestamp>1256149320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...or you could have pulled the emergency brake<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>It's called a parking brake.  and I have yet to see one on any vehicle that can actually stop a vehicle at speed.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...or you could have pulled the emergency brake ...It 's called a parking brake .
and I have yet to see one on any vehicle that can actually stop a vehicle at speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...or you could have pulled the emergency brake ...It's called a parking brake.
and I have yet to see one on any vehicle that can actually stop a vehicle at speed.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826953</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256155080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>2) A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves, the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate.</i></p><p>No it doesn't; stick forward, accelerate. Stick in the middle, coast. Stick back, brake. Just like the videogames.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>2 ) A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves , the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate.No it does n't ; stick forward , accelerate .
Stick in the middle , coast .
Stick back , brake .
Just like the videogames .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>2) A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves, the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate.No it doesn't; stick forward, accelerate.
Stick in the middle, coast.
Stick back, brake.
Just like the videogames.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827383</id>
	<title>Re:joystick vs k&amp;m</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256157000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I second the motion...  as long as they keep the mouse 3 binding for alt attack.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I second the motion... as long as they keep the mouse 3 binding for alt attack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I second the motion...  as long as they keep the mouse 3 binding for alt attack.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826775</id>
	<title>Re:reversed controls?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256154240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm wondering what the 'auto-fire' button will do.</p><p>If it's rigged to the horn, I guess it will be a time-saver for fans of sporting events.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm wondering what the 'auto-fire ' button will do.If it 's rigged to the horn , I guess it will be a time-saver for fans of sporting events .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm wondering what the 'auto-fire' button will do.If it's rigged to the horn, I guess it will be a time-saver for fans of sporting events.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824295</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29829117</id>
	<title>Re:change drivers without stopping</title>
	<author>Jeff DeMaagd</author>
	<datestamp>1256121480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Aircraft have a better solution to that - have the same controls in both pilot &amp; copilot seats.  The translation would mean two steering wheels and two gas &amp; brakes pedals.  No need for a joystick.  It seems to me that there are good reasons fighter jets have joysticks, but most other aircraft don't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Aircraft have a better solution to that - have the same controls in both pilot &amp; copilot seats .
The translation would mean two steering wheels and two gas &amp; brakes pedals .
No need for a joystick .
It seems to me that there are good reasons fighter jets have joysticks , but most other aircraft do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aircraft have a better solution to that - have the same controls in both pilot &amp; copilot seats.
The translation would mean two steering wheels and two gas &amp; brakes pedals.
No need for a joystick.
It seems to me that there are good reasons fighter jets have joysticks, but most other aircraft don't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825197</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825303</id>
	<title>Solution to loss of control/power</title>
	<author>Loconut1389</author>
	<datestamp>1256148840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Others have been discussing solutions for or at least bringing up the problem where if you lose power in a drive by wire car, you're sort of toast.</p><p>It seems to me that this is a perfect scenario for air brakes. Have an electronic valve that's fail-open, and if the car loses power or sets the signal line low on purpose, it would basically stop the car dead in its tracks. While this wouldn't be ideal, especially in winter or at high speed, it's better than completely losing control of the car.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Others have been discussing solutions for or at least bringing up the problem where if you lose power in a drive by wire car , you 're sort of toast.It seems to me that this is a perfect scenario for air brakes .
Have an electronic valve that 's fail-open , and if the car loses power or sets the signal line low on purpose , it would basically stop the car dead in its tracks .
While this would n't be ideal , especially in winter or at high speed , it 's better than completely losing control of the car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Others have been discussing solutions for or at least bringing up the problem where if you lose power in a drive by wire car, you're sort of toast.It seems to me that this is a perfect scenario for air brakes.
Have an electronic valve that's fail-open, and if the car loses power or sets the signal line low on purpose, it would basically stop the car dead in its tracks.
While this wouldn't be ideal, especially in winter or at high speed, it's better than completely losing control of the car.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825405</id>
	<title>Hard Drivin</title>
	<author>sce7mjm</author>
	<datestamp>1256149140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How not to do it. <br>
Game was unplayable with a joystick (digital) . Couldn't even get round the first bend.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How not to do it .
Game was unplayable with a joystick ( digital ) .
Could n't even get round the first bend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How not to do it.
Game was unplayable with a joystick (digital) .
Couldn't even get round the first bend.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824273</id>
	<title>Won't catch on until you can keybind</title>
	<author>Gorm the DBA</author>
	<datestamp>1256144160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>It'll all be for noobs until you can keybind your macros...which requires a much more complex interface than a simple joystick...I mean, come on, what is this, pac-man?
<p>
gimme a control that lets me:
</p><p>[StartMacro Name = 'RoadRage']
<br>/swerveleft
<br>/blinkheadlights
<br>/accelerate 90
<br>/flipoffotherdriver
<br>[EndMacro]
</p><p>

and then we'll be talking...till then...back to the drawing board.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 'll all be for noobs until you can keybind your macros...which requires a much more complex interface than a simple joystick...I mean , come on , what is this , pac-man ?
gim me a control that lets me : [ StartMacro Name = 'RoadRage ' ] /swerveleft /blinkheadlights /accelerate 90 /flipoffotherdriver [ EndMacro ] and then we 'll be talking...till then...back to the drawing board .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It'll all be for noobs until you can keybind your macros...which requires a much more complex interface than a simple joystick...I mean, come on, what is this, pac-man?
gimme a control that lets me:
[StartMacro Name = 'RoadRage']
/swerveleft
/blinkheadlights
/accelerate 90
/flipoffotherdriver
[EndMacro]


and then we'll be talking...till then...back to the drawing board.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827245</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>that this is not und</author>
	<datestamp>1256156340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><em>Modern cars, sadly, have little of the feedback of old. </em></p><p>You haven't ridden in my Ford Ranger, then.</p><p>Stock, black, short cab, with no options except the cd player and the bumpy ride.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Modern cars , sadly , have little of the feedback of old .
You have n't ridden in my Ford Ranger , then.Stock , black , short cab , with no options except the cd player and the bumpy ride .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Modern cars, sadly, have little of the feedback of old.
You haven't ridden in my Ford Ranger, then.Stock, black, short cab, with no options except the cd player and the bumpy ride.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824571</id>
	<title>Useful for the disabled</title>
	<author>Explodicle</author>
	<datestamp>1256145480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This may be particularly useful for disabled people with a limited range of motion. There are already cars without pedals for the wheelchair-bound.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This may be particularly useful for disabled people with a limited range of motion .
There are already cars without pedals for the wheelchair-bound .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This may be particularly useful for disabled people with a limited range of motion.
There are already cars without pedals for the wheelchair-bound.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825589</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>Bakkster</author>
	<datestamp>1256149740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>When I was pretty new to driving, I was rolling down a residential street in my dad's '78 Cougar.  The engine died and the power steering went with it.  I wasn't going too fast, but I was rolling straight toward a parked car.  It took all I had to slowly pull the car into a turn.  </p></div><p>...or you could have pulled the emergency brake<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>Had this happened at speed, especially if you only notice while aproaching a turn, I'll bet you'd want to be able to steer away from whatever is in front of you at the same time that you slow down.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was pretty new to driving , I was rolling down a residential street in my dad 's '78 Cougar .
The engine died and the power steering went with it .
I was n't going too fast , but I was rolling straight toward a parked car .
It took all I had to slowly pull the car into a turn .
...or you could have pulled the emergency brake ...Had this happened at speed , especially if you only notice while aproaching a turn , I 'll bet you 'd want to be able to steer away from whatever is in front of you at the same time that you slow down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was pretty new to driving, I was rolling down a residential street in my dad's '78 Cougar.
The engine died and the power steering went with it.
I wasn't going too fast, but I was rolling straight toward a parked car.
It took all I had to slowly pull the car into a turn.
...or you could have pulled the emergency brake ...Had this happened at speed, especially if you only notice while aproaching a turn, I'll bet you'd want to be able to steer away from whatever is in front of you at the same time that you slow down.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824615</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256145780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are these necessarily inherent to the joystick or are they engineering artifacts that good design can get around? I would imagine that there would be some attempt to address these issues in the design and not that an Atari joystick would be dropped in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are these necessarily inherent to the joystick or are they engineering artifacts that good design can get around ?
I would imagine that there would be some attempt to address these issues in the design and not that an Atari joystick would be dropped in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are these necessarily inherent to the joystick or are they engineering artifacts that good design can get around?
I would imagine that there would be some attempt to address these issues in the design and not that an Atari joystick would be dropped in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824309</id>
	<title>I seem to remember</title>
	<author>DaMattster</author>
	<datestamp>1256144280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the late 80s, early 90s Saab experimented with a joystick control, a "drive by wire if you will."  Stephanie Stahl from 60 minutes did a story on the drive by wire Saab.  Ultimately, it proved not to be the game changer everyone thought.  The joystick was placed where the gear shifter normally was.  One of the problems was the sensitivity and lack of road feedback.  It was actually hard to drive and keep steady.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the late 80s , early 90s Saab experimented with a joystick control , a " drive by wire if you will .
" Stephanie Stahl from 60 minutes did a story on the drive by wire Saab .
Ultimately , it proved not to be the game changer everyone thought .
The joystick was placed where the gear shifter normally was .
One of the problems was the sensitivity and lack of road feedback .
It was actually hard to drive and keep steady .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the late 80s, early 90s Saab experimented with a joystick control, a "drive by wire if you will.
"  Stephanie Stahl from 60 minutes did a story on the drive by wire Saab.
Ultimately, it proved not to be the game changer everyone thought.
The joystick was placed where the gear shifter normally was.
One of the problems was the sensitivity and lack of road feedback.
It was actually hard to drive and keep steady.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824763</id>
	<title>Re:Special license needed?</title>
	<author>spaceyhackerlady</author>
	<datestamp>1256146500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not having pedals or a steering column to deal with in a crash
gives the engineers lots of scope to make
cars <em>safer</em>. I'll be following this with interest.

</p><p>The control layout we have in cars today wasn't finalized until after WW2. Prior to that, many cars
had the accelerator in the middle, with the clutch and brake on either side. Some cars had
unique setups - ever driven a Model T?

</p><p>Even today, there are two "standards" for minor controls
on right hand drive cars. British RHD cars have the turning signals on the left of the steering column. Japanese
and Australian RHD cars have the turning signals on the right. I drive a Mitsubishi L300 Delica, so I'm
used to reaching with my right hand for the turning signals.

</p><p>While it had a steering wheel, the GM Hy-Wire concept was drive by wire as well. Some Citroen models were
effectively drive by wire (e.g. the SM), with no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and road wheels
unless the engine or
power steering failed.

</p><p>...laura</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not having pedals or a steering column to deal with in a crash gives the engineers lots of scope to make cars safer .
I 'll be following this with interest .
The control layout we have in cars today was n't finalized until after WW2 .
Prior to that , many cars had the accelerator in the middle , with the clutch and brake on either side .
Some cars had unique setups - ever driven a Model T ?
Even today , there are two " standards " for minor controls on right hand drive cars .
British RHD cars have the turning signals on the left of the steering column .
Japanese and Australian RHD cars have the turning signals on the right .
I drive a Mitsubishi L300 Delica , so I 'm used to reaching with my right hand for the turning signals .
While it had a steering wheel , the GM Hy-Wire concept was drive by wire as well .
Some Citroen models were effectively drive by wire ( e.g .
the SM ) , with no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and road wheels unless the engine or power steering failed .
...laura</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not having pedals or a steering column to deal with in a crash
gives the engineers lots of scope to make
cars safer.
I'll be following this with interest.
The control layout we have in cars today wasn't finalized until after WW2.
Prior to that, many cars
had the accelerator in the middle, with the clutch and brake on either side.
Some cars had
unique setups - ever driven a Model T?
Even today, there are two "standards" for minor controls
on right hand drive cars.
British RHD cars have the turning signals on the left of the steering column.
Japanese
and Australian RHD cars have the turning signals on the right.
I drive a Mitsubishi L300 Delica, so I'm
used to reaching with my right hand for the turning signals.
While it had a steering wheel, the GM Hy-Wire concept was drive by wire as well.
Some Citroen models were
effectively drive by wire (e.g.
the SM), with no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and road wheels
unless the engine or
power steering failed.
...laura</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824307</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824595</id>
	<title>Re:Left vs right handed?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256145660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>or in the middle of the seat?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>or in the middle of the seat ?
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>or in the middle of the seat?
;-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824435</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825571</id>
	<title>Re:I can just see it</title>
	<author>sznupi</author>
	<datestamp>1256149740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So...why the biggest passenger plane in the world (and every Airbus for that matter) has joysticks?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So...why the biggest passenger plane in the world ( and every Airbus for that matter ) has joysticks ?
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So...why the biggest passenger plane in the world (and every Airbus for that matter) has joysticks?
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824509</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825927</id>
	<title>LESLIE Stahl</title>
	<author>OglinTatas</author>
	<datestamp>1256151120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>no text</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>no text</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no text</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824309</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29836327</id>
	<title>The future is here!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256231460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Next step: Making them fly!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Next step : Making them fly !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Next step: Making them fly!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826531</id>
	<title>Remote driving</title>
	<author>abroadst</author>
	<datestamp>1256153280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This kind of approach makes me think about the drone pilots in Nevada. If the car is entirely drive-by-wire, maybe I could hire someone else to drive me to work, or better yet, home from the pub when I'm drunk. The real driver would never have to leave their office in Bangalore or Nevada or wherever! Just put a couple of cameras and proximity sensors on the bumpers and connect it up with 3G wireless and voilla!</htmltext>
<tokenext>This kind of approach makes me think about the drone pilots in Nevada .
If the car is entirely drive-by-wire , maybe I could hire someone else to drive me to work , or better yet , home from the pub when I 'm drunk .
The real driver would never have to leave their office in Bangalore or Nevada or wherever !
Just put a couple of cameras and proximity sensors on the bumpers and connect it up with 3G wireless and voilla !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This kind of approach makes me think about the drone pilots in Nevada.
If the car is entirely drive-by-wire, maybe I could hire someone else to drive me to work, or better yet, home from the pub when I'm drunk.
The real driver would never have to leave their office in Bangalore or Nevada or wherever!
Just put a couple of cameras and proximity sensors on the bumpers and connect it up with 3G wireless and voilla!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824465</id>
	<title>Feel free to ignore</title>
	<author>moogied</author>
	<datestamp>1256145000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This won't ever see the light of day. For one, its not currently legal in America.  Two, it would only result in a much higher rate of impact.  (Slam on your brakes next time you drive, see which way your hand moves. Is it forward?! Oh no! you just hit the car going 30 instead of 22). THREE, if its NOT BROKE. Do NOT fix it.  Four, there is 0 gain from this. At all.

Also, unless we start seeing it on race cars no one will ever take it seriously.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This wo n't ever see the light of day .
For one , its not currently legal in America .
Two , it would only result in a much higher rate of impact .
( Slam on your brakes next time you drive , see which way your hand moves .
Is it forward ? !
Oh no !
you just hit the car going 30 instead of 22 ) .
THREE , if its NOT BROKE .
Do NOT fix it .
Four , there is 0 gain from this .
At all .
Also , unless we start seeing it on race cars no one will ever take it seriously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This won't ever see the light of day.
For one, its not currently legal in America.
Two, it would only result in a much higher rate of impact.
(Slam on your brakes next time you drive, see which way your hand moves.
Is it forward?!
Oh no!
you just hit the car going 30 instead of 22).
THREE, if its NOT BROKE.
Do NOT fix it.
Four, there is 0 gain from this.
At all.
Also, unless we start seeing it on race cars no one will ever take it seriously.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824995</id>
	<title>No! It's going backwards!</title>
	<author>sznupi</author>
	<datestamp>1256147400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cars at the beginning didn't have steering wheels. They had...a sort of lever; basically vertical steering wheel with very limited movement range, something more similar to joysticks than to the proper steering wheel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cars at the beginning did n't have steering wheels .
They had...a sort of lever ; basically vertical steering wheel with very limited movement range , something more similar to joysticks than to the proper steering wheel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cars at the beginning didn't have steering wheels.
They had...a sort of lever; basically vertical steering wheel with very limited movement range, something more similar to joysticks than to the proper steering wheel.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824247</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824225</id>
	<title>Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>courteaudotbiz</author>
	<datestamp>1256143920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The steering usually gives good feedback of the road. Will there be some feedback in the joystick too? It's essential to the driving experience!</htmltext>
<tokenext>The steering usually gives good feedback of the road .
Will there be some feedback in the joystick too ?
It 's essential to the driving experience !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The steering usually gives good feedback of the road.
Will there be some feedback in the joystick too?
It's essential to the driving experience!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826825</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>DavidYaw</author>
	<datestamp>1256154480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A car with yaw control...</p></div><p>I am in favor of cars being controlled by Yaw.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A car with yaw control...I am in favor of cars being controlled by Yaw .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A car with yaw control...I am in favor of cars being controlled by Yaw.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29831495</id>
	<title>No separation of degrees of control</title>
	<author>vikstar</author>
	<datestamp>1256141280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One thing about steering wheel and brake/accelerator, is that you only need to think with your feet to accelerate/brake or only think with your hands to turn. Whether this is a good or bad thing, the results will tell.<br>A way they could try to test this is perhaps, as they use two joysticks, have only 1 degree of control per joystick. Say, the left to turn and the right to accelerate/brake, and compare it with a steering wheel which moves forward/backward (airplane style) for accelerating and braking.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One thing about steering wheel and brake/accelerator , is that you only need to think with your feet to accelerate/brake or only think with your hands to turn .
Whether this is a good or bad thing , the results will tell.A way they could try to test this is perhaps , as they use two joysticks , have only 1 degree of control per joystick .
Say , the left to turn and the right to accelerate/brake , and compare it with a steering wheel which moves forward/backward ( airplane style ) for accelerating and braking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One thing about steering wheel and brake/accelerator, is that you only need to think with your feet to accelerate/brake or only think with your hands to turn.
Whether this is a good or bad thing, the results will tell.A way they could try to test this is perhaps, as they use two joysticks, have only 1 degree of control per joystick.
Say, the left to turn and the right to accelerate/brake, and compare it with a steering wheel which moves forward/backward (airplane style) for accelerating and braking.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826061</id>
	<title>Re:Special license needed?</title>
	<author>Reziac</author>
	<datestamp>1256151540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It does sound more like a glorified enclosed scooter than a car. Which is probably a good and useful vehicle if most of the vehicles around you are of roughly the same weight class, but suicidal if most of them are standard cars.</p><p>As to the controls... do you really want to be on the road with a bunch of people who are relearning how to control their car?? I don't. As you say, one of the big advantages of the standard basic auto design is that in a pinch, anyone can drive any car. You don't have to be certified anew for different makes and models!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It does sound more like a glorified enclosed scooter than a car .
Which is probably a good and useful vehicle if most of the vehicles around you are of roughly the same weight class , but suicidal if most of them are standard cars.As to the controls... do you really want to be on the road with a bunch of people who are relearning how to control their car ? ?
I do n't .
As you say , one of the big advantages of the standard basic auto design is that in a pinch , anyone can drive any car .
You do n't have to be certified anew for different makes and models !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It does sound more like a glorified enclosed scooter than a car.
Which is probably a good and useful vehicle if most of the vehicles around you are of roughly the same weight class, but suicidal if most of them are standard cars.As to the controls... do you really want to be on the road with a bunch of people who are relearning how to control their car??
I don't.
As you say, one of the big advantages of the standard basic auto design is that in a pinch, anyone can drive any car.
You don't have to be certified anew for different makes and models!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824307</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29829427</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256123040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Toyotas are notorious for their "videogame" steering feel.  Try a Mazda sometime, most of their line provides communicative steering and handling feel without being overly harsh.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Toyotas are notorious for their " videogame " steering feel .
Try a Mazda sometime , most of their line provides communicative steering and handling feel without being overly harsh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Toyotas are notorious for their "videogame" steering feel.
Try a Mazda sometime, most of their line provides communicative steering and handling feel without being overly harsh.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825763</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256150400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A car with yaw control...</p></div><p>Subaru and Mitsubishi have had active Yaw control for over a decade</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A car with yaw control...Subaru and Mitsubishi have had active Yaw control for over a decade</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A car with yaw control...Subaru and Mitsubishi have had active Yaw control for over a decade
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824475</id>
	<title>Where's the beef?</title>
	<author>solid\_liq</author>
	<datestamp>1256145060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No pictures?  How can they not show us any pictures of this?  And why a joystick?  Why not something more like a brainwave scanner?  That way, when you're talking on the cellphone, and you get distracted by picturing what the person on the other end is saying, you crash into a wall!  That would be so cool!</htmltext>
<tokenext>No pictures ?
How can they not show us any pictures of this ?
And why a joystick ?
Why not something more like a brainwave scanner ?
That way , when you 're talking on the cellphone , and you get distracted by picturing what the person on the other end is saying , you crash into a wall !
That would be so cool !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No pictures?
How can they not show us any pictures of this?
And why a joystick?
Why not something more like a brainwave scanner?
That way, when you're talking on the cellphone, and you get distracted by picturing what the person on the other end is saying, you crash into a wall!
That would be so cool!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825161</id>
	<title>With images</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256148060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.motortrend.com/auto\_shows/tokyo/2009/112\_0910\_toyota\_ft\_ev\_ii\_concept/index.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.motortrend.com/auto \ _shows/tokyo/2009/112 \ _0910 \ _toyota \ _ft \ _ev \ _ii \ _concept/index.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.motortrend.com/auto\_shows/tokyo/2009/112\_0910\_toyota\_ft\_ev\_ii\_concept/index.html</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826411</id>
	<title>Wont succeed over steering wheels</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256152800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...there is a cause why joystick manufacturers sell steering weels especially for racing games.</p><p>If the joystick would be better it would have superseded the steering whell in racing games already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...there is a cause why joystick manufacturers sell steering weels especially for racing games.If the joystick would be better it would have superseded the steering whell in racing games already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...there is a cause why joystick manufacturers sell steering weels especially for racing games.If the joystick would be better it would have superseded the steering whell in racing games already.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825023</id>
	<title>Negcon!</title>
	<author>sznupi</author>
	<datestamp>1256147580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>That</i> I would love<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;p</p><p>Benefits of both steering wheel (precision, hard to make accidental movements) and joysticks (quickly moving between extremes), but without their flaws!</p><p>( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeGcon" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeGcon</a> [wikipedia.org] )</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That I would love ; pBenefits of both steering wheel ( precision , hard to make accidental movements ) and joysticks ( quickly moving between extremes ) , but without their flaws !
( http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeGcon [ wikipedia.org ] )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That I would love ;pBenefits of both steering wheel (precision, hard to make accidental movements) and joysticks (quickly moving between extremes), but without their flaws!
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeGcon [wikipedia.org] )</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824227</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29851621</id>
	<title>Re:Numerous issues involved with the joystick cont</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256292120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>For non-gamers it would be like trying to learn how to play FPS games for the first time with a mouse as the controller.</p></div><p>Learning to drive a car is difficult anyway. Would it be <em>more</em> difficult to learn with a joystick as opposed to a wheel and pedals? Especially given how many of the new drivers already know how to use a joystick?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Also, currently the petals naturally return to the idle position when released and give pressure feedback when pressed. This is partially a safety issue as the car slows down if you pass out, stop paying attention, etc.</p></div><p>This would be made fairly irrelevant by adding new safety features to the vehicle. If you're monitoring the driver's vitals, you can tell if something goes wrong, and by putting sensors in/near the joystick you can tell if the driver takes his hand off the controls for some reason. If anything goes wrong, sound an alarm (to wake the driver up if possible) and stop the car as quickly as is possible and practical (you don't want someone rear-ending you).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Would a joystick do that too? Is it healthy for your wrist to hold a joystick in a position for a long time with it exerting pressure on your body... after using a computer mouse and keyboard all day?</p></div><p>Only <em>changing</em> your velocity or direction would require pressure against the joystick. Holding the joystick in the neutral position would equal moving straight ahead at a constant speed.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Airplanes can fly themselves</p></div><p>Flying an airplane does not require nearly as much situational awareness as driving a car does. There's next-to-nothing to hit up there... all you have to watch out for is other planes and the ground. It's easy to program a computer to avoid the latter, and the former are relatively few and far between and are carefully routed around each other by ground-based air traffic control.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>speeds above 40 mpg</p></div><p>You're thinking of MPH, not MPG.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>For non-gamers it would be like trying to learn how to play FPS games for the first time with a mouse as the controller.Learning to drive a car is difficult anyway .
Would it be more difficult to learn with a joystick as opposed to a wheel and pedals ?
Especially given how many of the new drivers already know how to use a joystick ? Also , currently the petals naturally return to the idle position when released and give pressure feedback when pressed .
This is partially a safety issue as the car slows down if you pass out , stop paying attention , etc.This would be made fairly irrelevant by adding new safety features to the vehicle .
If you 're monitoring the driver 's vitals , you can tell if something goes wrong , and by putting sensors in/near the joystick you can tell if the driver takes his hand off the controls for some reason .
If anything goes wrong , sound an alarm ( to wake the driver up if possible ) and stop the car as quickly as is possible and practical ( you do n't want someone rear-ending you ) .Would a joystick do that too ?
Is it healthy for your wrist to hold a joystick in a position for a long time with it exerting pressure on your body... after using a computer mouse and keyboard all day ? Only changing your velocity or direction would require pressure against the joystick .
Holding the joystick in the neutral position would equal moving straight ahead at a constant speed.Airplanes can fly themselvesFlying an airplane does not require nearly as much situational awareness as driving a car does .
There 's next-to-nothing to hit up there... all you have to watch out for is other planes and the ground .
It 's easy to program a computer to avoid the latter , and the former are relatively few and far between and are carefully routed around each other by ground-based air traffic control.speeds above 40 mpgYou 're thinking of MPH , not MPG .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For non-gamers it would be like trying to learn how to play FPS games for the first time with a mouse as the controller.Learning to drive a car is difficult anyway.
Would it be more difficult to learn with a joystick as opposed to a wheel and pedals?
Especially given how many of the new drivers already know how to use a joystick?Also, currently the petals naturally return to the idle position when released and give pressure feedback when pressed.
This is partially a safety issue as the car slows down if you pass out, stop paying attention, etc.This would be made fairly irrelevant by adding new safety features to the vehicle.
If you're monitoring the driver's vitals, you can tell if something goes wrong, and by putting sensors in/near the joystick you can tell if the driver takes his hand off the controls for some reason.
If anything goes wrong, sound an alarm (to wake the driver up if possible) and stop the car as quickly as is possible and practical (you don't want someone rear-ending you).Would a joystick do that too?
Is it healthy for your wrist to hold a joystick in a position for a long time with it exerting pressure on your body... after using a computer mouse and keyboard all day?Only changing your velocity or direction would require pressure against the joystick.
Holding the joystick in the neutral position would equal moving straight ahead at a constant speed.Airplanes can fly themselvesFlying an airplane does not require nearly as much situational awareness as driving a car does.
There's next-to-nothing to hit up there... all you have to watch out for is other planes and the ground.
It's easy to program a computer to avoid the latter, and the former are relatively few and far between and are carefully routed around each other by ground-based air traffic control.speeds above 40 mpgYou're thinking of MPH, not MPG.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826285</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29829753</id>
	<title>Re:Old news - Saab tried this in the 80s</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256125200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You might be confusing this with a 1996 Mercedes concept car, the <i>F 200 Imagination</i> (Google it, it's really cool).  I saw that one on TV and it acted just like you described it.  They even said that while it took some time adjusting to it if you were used to a steering wheel, people that have never driven a car were able to control the concept car faster and more precise than a conventional car.  The reason why it never took off was that there's a law (at least in Germany, where said concept car was developed) that the steering wheels basically need to have a direct, mechanical link to the controls: <a href="http://www.verkehrsportal.de/stvzo/stvzo\_38.php" title="verkehrsportal.de" rel="nofollow">http://www.verkehrsportal.de/stvzo/stvzo\_38.php</a> [verkehrsportal.de](German) - the last part of the first bullet point roughly translates to "In the event of a power steering failure, control of the vehicle must still be possible."</p><p>So basically, the only way to even get close to that requirement would be adding triple redundancy like in an airplane, and some sort of battery backup, so that it works even when the engine fails to provide power.</p><p>Understandably, the law makers have no intention of changing that law, as you can bet that if it would be repelled, sooner or later some cheap brand would show up with a car that has less reliable steering parts.  Now, Germany isn't exactly the country where you can sue the pants off of someone for selling coffee that is too hot, but cars that fly off the Autobahn at or above 131mph - nope, that's too much, even for Germany.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You might be confusing this with a 1996 Mercedes concept car , the F 200 Imagination ( Google it , it 's really cool ) .
I saw that one on TV and it acted just like you described it .
They even said that while it took some time adjusting to it if you were used to a steering wheel , people that have never driven a car were able to control the concept car faster and more precise than a conventional car .
The reason why it never took off was that there 's a law ( at least in Germany , where said concept car was developed ) that the steering wheels basically need to have a direct , mechanical link to the controls : http : //www.verkehrsportal.de/stvzo/stvzo \ _38.php [ verkehrsportal.de ] ( German ) - the last part of the first bullet point roughly translates to " In the event of a power steering failure , control of the vehicle must still be possible .
" So basically , the only way to even get close to that requirement would be adding triple redundancy like in an airplane , and some sort of battery backup , so that it works even when the engine fails to provide power.Understandably , the law makers have no intention of changing that law , as you can bet that if it would be repelled , sooner or later some cheap brand would show up with a car that has less reliable steering parts .
Now , Germany is n't exactly the country where you can sue the pants off of someone for selling coffee that is too hot , but cars that fly off the Autobahn at or above 131mph - nope , that 's too much , even for Germany .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You might be confusing this with a 1996 Mercedes concept car, the F 200 Imagination (Google it, it's really cool).
I saw that one on TV and it acted just like you described it.
They even said that while it took some time adjusting to it if you were used to a steering wheel, people that have never driven a car were able to control the concept car faster and more precise than a conventional car.
The reason why it never took off was that there's a law (at least in Germany, where said concept car was developed) that the steering wheels basically need to have a direct, mechanical link to the controls: http://www.verkehrsportal.de/stvzo/stvzo\_38.php [verkehrsportal.de](German) - the last part of the first bullet point roughly translates to "In the event of a power steering failure, control of the vehicle must still be possible.
"So basically, the only way to even get close to that requirement would be adding triple redundancy like in an airplane, and some sort of battery backup, so that it works even when the engine fails to provide power.Understandably, the law makers have no intention of changing that law, as you can bet that if it would be repelled, sooner or later some cheap brand would show up with a car that has less reliable steering parts.
Now, Germany isn't exactly the country where you can sue the pants off of someone for selling coffee that is too hot, but cars that fly off the Autobahn at or above 131mph - nope, that's too much, even for Germany.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825997</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825873</id>
	<title>Advantages/disadvantages</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256150880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Quick summary of some of the more obvious features, advantages, and disadvantages, based on my own thoughts and what I've seen other people saying. (Any additions? Things I missed... I'm sure I didn't think of everything.)</p><p>Features (and things they should do to make it safer):</p><ul> <li>The front-to-back axis would be the derivative of the throttle, i.e. if you release the stick, it maintains speed</li><li>The left-to-right axis would be linked directly to the yaw of the tyres; releasing the stick would straighten them</li><li>Push forward to slow down, pull back to speed up... like a boat or plane; this way, you preserve the notion of "pushing the brakes", which is the more important one when safety is concerned, and people can learn to "pull the accelerator", which isn't usually as critical as braking in preventing accidents</li><li>No need for the legs to control the vehicle</li><li>Sense the weight of the hand, and gradually slow/stop the vehicle if the driver takes their hand off the stick; a moment to grab your cellphone off the belt clip and switch it to your left hand wouldn't make a big difference, but you wouldn't be able to set it straight and then eat a burger (you'd coast to a stop)</li></ul><p>Pros:<br>+ Novelty (new and shiny)<br>+ Handicapped-accessible (no legs)<br>+ Built-in cruise control; no leg fatigue (or hand fatigue) on long trips<br>+ Would be more like a video game; the younger generation might catch on quicker<br>+ Computerized control could make it safer, e.g. prevent roll-overs (using sensors, similar to anti-lock brakes, don't allow the driver to turn sharply enough to roll it over)</p><p>Cons:<br>&ndash; Novelty (new and expensive)<br>&ndash; Harder to do things with your hands while controlling your vehicle (with your legs... safer if you can't, though!)<br>&ndash; Easier to do things with your hands while not controlling your vehicle (going straight), i.e. less safe<br>&ndash; Smaller range of motion might make it difficult to perform maneuvers as precisely<br>&ndash; No backup for power-steering loss (might be a deal-breaker... even if you built a direct mechanical link to the tyres, it would be nearly impossible to control them, not enough leverage in the small stick)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Quick summary of some of the more obvious features , advantages , and disadvantages , based on my own thoughts and what I 've seen other people saying .
( Any additions ?
Things I missed... I 'm sure I did n't think of everything .
) Features ( and things they should do to make it safer ) : The front-to-back axis would be the derivative of the throttle , i.e .
if you release the stick , it maintains speedThe left-to-right axis would be linked directly to the yaw of the tyres ; releasing the stick would straighten themPush forward to slow down , pull back to speed up... like a boat or plane ; this way , you preserve the notion of " pushing the brakes " , which is the more important one when safety is concerned , and people can learn to " pull the accelerator " , which is n't usually as critical as braking in preventing accidentsNo need for the legs to control the vehicleSense the weight of the hand , and gradually slow/stop the vehicle if the driver takes their hand off the stick ; a moment to grab your cellphone off the belt clip and switch it to your left hand would n't make a big difference , but you would n't be able to set it straight and then eat a burger ( you 'd coast to a stop ) Pros : + Novelty ( new and shiny ) + Handicapped-accessible ( no legs ) + Built-in cruise control ; no leg fatigue ( or hand fatigue ) on long trips + Would be more like a video game ; the younger generation might catch on quicker + Computerized control could make it safer , e.g .
prevent roll-overs ( using sensors , similar to anti-lock brakes , do n't allow the driver to turn sharply enough to roll it over ) Cons :    Novelty ( new and expensive )    Harder to do things with your hands while controlling your vehicle ( with your legs... safer if you ca n't , though !
)    Easier to do things with your hands while not controlling your vehicle ( going straight ) , i.e .
less safe    Smaller range of motion might make it difficult to perform maneuvers as precisely    No backup for power-steering loss ( might be a deal-breaker... even if you built a direct mechanical link to the tyres , it would be nearly impossible to control them , not enough leverage in the small stick )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quick summary of some of the more obvious features, advantages, and disadvantages, based on my own thoughts and what I've seen other people saying.
(Any additions?
Things I missed... I'm sure I didn't think of everything.
)Features (and things they should do to make it safer): The front-to-back axis would be the derivative of the throttle, i.e.
if you release the stick, it maintains speedThe left-to-right axis would be linked directly to the yaw of the tyres; releasing the stick would straighten themPush forward to slow down, pull back to speed up... like a boat or plane; this way, you preserve the notion of "pushing the brakes", which is the more important one when safety is concerned, and people can learn to "pull the accelerator", which isn't usually as critical as braking in preventing accidentsNo need for the legs to control the vehicleSense the weight of the hand, and gradually slow/stop the vehicle if the driver takes their hand off the stick; a moment to grab your cellphone off the belt clip and switch it to your left hand wouldn't make a big difference, but you wouldn't be able to set it straight and then eat a burger (you'd coast to a stop)Pros:+ Novelty (new and shiny)+ Handicapped-accessible (no legs)+ Built-in cruise control; no leg fatigue (or hand fatigue) on long trips+ Would be more like a video game; the younger generation might catch on quicker+ Computerized control could make it safer, e.g.
prevent roll-overs (using sensors, similar to anti-lock brakes, don't allow the driver to turn sharply enough to roll it over)Cons:– Novelty (new and expensive)– Harder to do things with your hands while controlling your vehicle (with your legs... safer if you can't, though!
)– Easier to do things with your hands while not controlling your vehicle (going straight), i.e.
less safe– Smaller range of motion might make it difficult to perform maneuvers as precisely– No backup for power-steering loss (might be a deal-breaker... even if you built a direct mechanical link to the tyres, it would be nearly impossible to control them, not enough leverage in the small stick)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824553</id>
	<title>Re:Great</title>
	<author>dnahelicase</author>
	<datestamp>1256145360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is exactly what I need.  You don't know how many times I've been driving and wished that I could use just my hands instead of me feet.  This would free up my feet so I could use them to dial my cell phone, mess with the radio, flip people the middle toe...</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is exactly what I need .
You do n't know how many times I 've been driving and wished that I could use just my hands instead of me feet .
This would free up my feet so I could use them to dial my cell phone , mess with the radio , flip people the middle toe.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is exactly what I need.
You don't know how many times I've been driving and wished that I could use just my hands instead of me feet.
This would free up my feet so I could use them to dial my cell phone, mess with the radio, flip people the middle toe...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824759</id>
	<title>Re:I seem to remember</title>
	<author>Devout\_IPUite</author>
	<datestamp>1256146440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Play a modern racing game and the conclusion doesn't even take real world examples to reach.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Play a modern racing game and the conclusion does n't even take real world examples to reach .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Play a modern racing game and the conclusion doesn't even take real world examples to reach.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824309</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29829347</id>
	<title>Re:Need for Speed: Reality Edition</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256122620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try drifting in a game with a half decent physics engine, like GT5 Prologue.  It's not easy!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try drifting in a game with a half decent physics engine , like GT5 Prologue .
It 's not easy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try drifting in a game with a half decent physics engine, like GT5 Prologue.
It's not easy!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827697</id>
	<title>Re:Feel free to ignore</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256158380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree, for one thing, nothing states forward motion should be mapped as 'push' on the joystick.</p><p>Secondly, it IS broke, seriously how long did it take for you to learn how to drive, escpecially with stick? Like playing Crysis with no mouse.<br>I'm sure when they settled for the steeringwheel, stick and pedals back in the days, they just discarded any other hightech electromechanical interfaces just because they envisioned using every limb on your body to keep a vehicle in motion was the "right" way to do it.</p><p>Gain is convenience and progress, what's certain is that we won't ever gain anything out of not doing it.<br>What happened to "because we can"..?</p><p>Naturally if said techology was developed, it would eventually make it to the track aswell.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree , for one thing , nothing states forward motion should be mapped as 'push ' on the joystick.Secondly , it IS broke , seriously how long did it take for you to learn how to drive , escpecially with stick ?
Like playing Crysis with no mouse.I 'm sure when they settled for the steeringwheel , stick and pedals back in the days , they just discarded any other hightech electromechanical interfaces just because they envisioned using every limb on your body to keep a vehicle in motion was the " right " way to do it.Gain is convenience and progress , what 's certain is that we wo n't ever gain anything out of not doing it.What happened to " because we can " .. ? Naturally if said techology was developed , it would eventually make it to the track aswell .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree, for one thing, nothing states forward motion should be mapped as 'push' on the joystick.Secondly, it IS broke, seriously how long did it take for you to learn how to drive, escpecially with stick?
Like playing Crysis with no mouse.I'm sure when they settled for the steeringwheel, stick and pedals back in the days, they just discarded any other hightech electromechanical interfaces just because they envisioned using every limb on your body to keep a vehicle in motion was the "right" way to do it.Gain is convenience and progress, what's certain is that we won't ever gain anything out of not doing it.What happened to "because we can"..?Naturally if said techology was developed, it would eventually make it to the track aswell.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827121</id>
	<title>Re:I can just see it</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256155860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The reality is that a joystick will allow a twitch of your arm to go from full right turn at full throttle to full left turn at full brake.</p></div><p>The beauty of the computer is that the joystick <em>won't</em> allow that.</p><p>You could even build inertial sensors to detect when the car is nearly about to tip over and force the computer to flatten out the curve slightly until it's within safe bounds. Same thing as anti-lock brakes, really: If the user is able to over-react and make things worse, put a computer between them and the situation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reality is that a joystick will allow a twitch of your arm to go from full right turn at full throttle to full left turn at full brake.The beauty of the computer is that the joystick wo n't allow that.You could even build inertial sensors to detect when the car is nearly about to tip over and force the computer to flatten out the curve slightly until it 's within safe bounds .
Same thing as anti-lock brakes , really : If the user is able to over-react and make things worse , put a computer between them and the situation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reality is that a joystick will allow a twitch of your arm to go from full right turn at full throttle to full left turn at full brake.The beauty of the computer is that the joystick won't allow that.You could even build inertial sensors to detect when the car is nearly about to tip over and force the computer to flatten out the curve slightly until it's within safe bounds.
Same thing as anti-lock brakes, really: If the user is able to over-react and make things worse, put a computer between them and the situation.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29851357</id>
	<title>Re:change drivers without stopping</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256291160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>True, but none of the dashboard indicators or controls would be accessible from the opposite side.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True , but none of the dashboard indicators or controls would be accessible from the opposite side .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True, but none of the dashboard indicators or controls would be accessible from the opposite side.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825197</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824709</id>
	<title>equipment</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256146200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They have had joystick controls in heavy equipment for a while now, and also boats (http://www.volvo.com/volvopenta/uk/en-gb/marine\_leisure\_engines/engines/c\_volvo\_penta\_ips/joystick/joystick.htm). So... why not try it in cars too?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They have had joystick controls in heavy equipment for a while now , and also boats ( http : //www.volvo.com/volvopenta/uk/en-gb/marine \ _leisure \ _engines/engines/c \ _volvo \ _penta \ _ips/joystick/joystick.htm ) .
So... why not try it in cars too ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They have had joystick controls in heavy equipment for a while now, and also boats (http://www.volvo.com/volvopenta/uk/en-gb/marine\_leisure\_engines/engines/c\_volvo\_penta\_ips/joystick/joystick.htm).
So... why not try it in cars too?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825821</id>
	<title>Don't they mean "return to" joystick control?</title>
	<author>charleste</author>
	<datestamp>1256150640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The oldest family picture I have of someone in their non-horse-drawn vehicle is of my maternal great(-great?) grandfather driving his delivery truck - using a joystick.  The truck looked like a horse-drawn wagon with a motor in front, and the joystick/lever for the front-axle. Next thing you know, "green transport" will go from hybrid and electric back to mammal-drawn.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The oldest family picture I have of someone in their non-horse-drawn vehicle is of my maternal great ( -great ?
) grandfather driving his delivery truck - using a joystick .
The truck looked like a horse-drawn wagon with a motor in front , and the joystick/lever for the front-axle .
Next thing you know , " green transport " will go from hybrid and electric back to mammal-drawn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The oldest family picture I have of someone in their non-horse-drawn vehicle is of my maternal great(-great?
) grandfather driving his delivery truck - using a joystick.
The truck looked like a horse-drawn wagon with a motor in front, and the joystick/lever for the front-axle.
Next thing you know, "green transport" will go from hybrid and electric back to mammal-drawn.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826453</id>
	<title>But how?</title>
	<author>SnarfQuest</author>
	<datestamp>1256152980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How are you going to put all the important controls that are currently supplied by the steering wheel; like the radio, air conditioning, gps, etc.? Your joystick is going to be too large to move once you've got all of those buttons stuck to it! I know that thay've made mice with more buttons than a keyboard, so maybe they should use a mouse instead.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How are you going to put all the important controls that are currently supplied by the steering wheel ; like the radio , air conditioning , gps , etc. ?
Your joystick is going to be too large to move once you 've got all of those buttons stuck to it !
I know that thay 've made mice with more buttons than a keyboard , so maybe they should use a mouse instead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How are you going to put all the important controls that are currently supplied by the steering wheel; like the radio, air conditioning, gps, etc.?
Your joystick is going to be too large to move once you've got all of those buttons stuck to it!
I know that thay've made mice with more buttons than a keyboard, so maybe they should use a mouse instead.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29828621</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>Nefarious Wheel</author>
	<datestamp>1256119080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>WRT #2, another unintended effect. Imagine someone hits you from the front. The inertia of the impact would force your hand forward, causing you to *speed up*. </p></div><p>Dude, logic + accelerometers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>WRT # 2 , another unintended effect .
Imagine someone hits you from the front .
The inertia of the impact would force your hand forward , causing you to * speed up * .
Dude , logic + accelerometers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WRT #2, another unintended effect.
Imagine someone hits you from the front.
The inertia of the impact would force your hand forward, causing you to *speed up*.
Dude, logic + accelerometers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824821</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29831045</id>
	<title>Re:Old news - Saab tried this in the 80s</title>
	<author>sincewhen</author>
	<datestamp>1256135460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I find this hard to believe. <p>
If a joystick really gave you better control, they would be using them in racing cars, where every advantage is sought. I suspect the primary disadvantage is the lack of feedback. In driving a car at the limit you need to be able to feel what the steering and suspension is doing. Simulated feedback doesn't cut it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I find this hard to believe .
If a joystick really gave you better control , they would be using them in racing cars , where every advantage is sought .
I suspect the primary disadvantage is the lack of feedback .
In driving a car at the limit you need to be able to feel what the steering and suspension is doing .
Simulated feedback does n't cut it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find this hard to believe.
If a joystick really gave you better control, they would be using them in racing cars, where every advantage is sought.
I suspect the primary disadvantage is the lack of feedback.
In driving a car at the limit you need to be able to feel what the steering and suspension is doing.
Simulated feedback doesn't cut it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825997</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825429</id>
	<title>Old idea - was hoping for new information....</title>
	<author>ehud42</author>
	<datestamp>1256149260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Skimmed the article. Joystick is used to control car as expected - forward, back for throttle/brake and left/right for left/right. Big deal.</p><p>What I was hoping they would talk about was the real challenges with drive by wire - how to maintain control when the motor stalls / battery dies. Even with power steering / braking, the mechanical link is sufficient for control at low speeds (pushing incapacitated car off the road, towing with a buddy, etc.) If the answer is just more reliable gear and road side assistance, then fine - say it. But without details about the failure modes, I'm thinking this is still vaporware.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Skimmed the article .
Joystick is used to control car as expected - forward , back for throttle/brake and left/right for left/right .
Big deal.What I was hoping they would talk about was the real challenges with drive by wire - how to maintain control when the motor stalls / battery dies .
Even with power steering / braking , the mechanical link is sufficient for control at low speeds ( pushing incapacitated car off the road , towing with a buddy , etc .
) If the answer is just more reliable gear and road side assistance , then fine - say it .
But without details about the failure modes , I 'm thinking this is still vaporware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Skimmed the article.
Joystick is used to control car as expected - forward, back for throttle/brake and left/right for left/right.
Big deal.What I was hoping they would talk about was the real challenges with drive by wire - how to maintain control when the motor stalls / battery dies.
Even with power steering / braking, the mechanical link is sufficient for control at low speeds (pushing incapacitated car off the road, towing with a buddy, etc.
) If the answer is just more reliable gear and road side assistance, then fine - say it.
But without details about the failure modes, I'm thinking this is still vaporware.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825051</id>
	<title>Unnecessary innovation?</title>
	<author>DragonWriter</author>
	<datestamp>1256147700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The FT-EV II, which got its world premiere at the event, is a compact electric vehicle designed for short trips. The car retains seats for four passengers despite being much more compact than most other cars, and packs drive-by-wire technology so it can be controlled with a joystick. The car's steering, braking and acceleration can be controlled by hand so foot pedals aren't needed, freeing up space to provide more legroom for the driver.</p></div></blockquote><p>Note that you can control steering, braking and acceleration by hand on a car with a steering wheel -- I've been in a car that (through aftermarket options) did that (braking and acceleration by way of pedals.) Since my friend, whose car it was, had lost most of both legs, it was something of an essential feature for her.</p><p>I suspect that layout would be more familar and convenient to drivers than a joystick, if the main goal is to provide legroom by removing footpedals from the equation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The FT-EV II , which got its world premiere at the event , is a compact electric vehicle designed for short trips .
The car retains seats for four passengers despite being much more compact than most other cars , and packs drive-by-wire technology so it can be controlled with a joystick .
The car 's steering , braking and acceleration can be controlled by hand so foot pedals are n't needed , freeing up space to provide more legroom for the driver.Note that you can control steering , braking and acceleration by hand on a car with a steering wheel -- I 've been in a car that ( through aftermarket options ) did that ( braking and acceleration by way of pedals .
) Since my friend , whose car it was , had lost most of both legs , it was something of an essential feature for her.I suspect that layout would be more familar and convenient to drivers than a joystick , if the main goal is to provide legroom by removing footpedals from the equation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The FT-EV II, which got its world premiere at the event, is a compact electric vehicle designed for short trips.
The car retains seats for four passengers despite being much more compact than most other cars, and packs drive-by-wire technology so it can be controlled with a joystick.
The car's steering, braking and acceleration can be controlled by hand so foot pedals aren't needed, freeing up space to provide more legroom for the driver.Note that you can control steering, braking and acceleration by hand on a car with a steering wheel -- I've been in a car that (through aftermarket options) did that (braking and acceleration by way of pedals.
) Since my friend, whose car it was, had lost most of both legs, it was something of an essential feature for her.I suspect that layout would be more familar and convenient to drivers than a joystick, if the main goal is to provide legroom by removing footpedals from the equation.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826159</id>
	<title>Re:I can just see it</title>
	<author>Reziac</author>
	<datestamp>1256151900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And what about situations like turning on ice, where you want to be slowing down *while* applying slight acceleration, so as to maintain traction. I don't see how that sort of complex control is possible with a joystick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And what about situations like turning on ice , where you want to be slowing down * while * applying slight acceleration , so as to maintain traction .
I do n't see how that sort of complex control is possible with a joystick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And what about situations like turning on ice, where you want to be slowing down *while* applying slight acceleration, so as to maintain traction.
I don't see how that sort of complex control is possible with a joystick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29831735</id>
	<title>Re:I seem to remember</title>
	<author>jrumney</author>
	<datestamp>1256144220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It was actually hard to drive and keep steady.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Presumably the ability of a computer to take the role of keeping steady has improved significantly since the late 80's.  It works for Airbus and Boeing.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It was actually hard to drive and keep steady .
Presumably the ability of a computer to take the role of keeping steady has improved significantly since the late 80 's .
It works for Airbus and Boeing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was actually hard to drive and keep steady.
Presumably the ability of a computer to take the role of keeping steady has improved significantly since the late 80's.
It works for Airbus and Boeing.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824309</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824907</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>infinite9</author>
	<datestamp>1256147040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In panic stops, we already have trouble with not-so-good drivers slamming on the accelerator instead of the brake.  Then there's the effect of the driver's body inertia on the stick.  Is pushing the stick forward the same as accelerating?  What if you slam on the brakes?  Will your body moving forward make you stop braking and start accelerating when you brace yourself?  Same things for turns, move the stick to the left, body leans to the right.  The steering wheel is a rotational device.  It's independent of the driver's body motion.  And you can hold on to it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In panic stops , we already have trouble with not-so-good drivers slamming on the accelerator instead of the brake .
Then there 's the effect of the driver 's body inertia on the stick .
Is pushing the stick forward the same as accelerating ?
What if you slam on the brakes ?
Will your body moving forward make you stop braking and start accelerating when you brace yourself ?
Same things for turns , move the stick to the left , body leans to the right .
The steering wheel is a rotational device .
It 's independent of the driver 's body motion .
And you can hold on to it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In panic stops, we already have trouble with not-so-good drivers slamming on the accelerator instead of the brake.
Then there's the effect of the driver's body inertia on the stick.
Is pushing the stick forward the same as accelerating?
What if you slam on the brakes?
Will your body moving forward make you stop braking and start accelerating when you brace yourself?
Same things for turns, move the stick to the left, body leans to the right.
The steering wheel is a rotational device.
It's independent of the driver's body motion.
And you can hold on to it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827531</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>GuldKalle</author>
	<datestamp>1256157720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do a barrel roll!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do a barrel roll !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do a barrel roll!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824987</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256147400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>1) As somebody else mentioned, power steering failure is a big one</p></div><p>
Already addressed as a child to that post by AC -- check it out.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>2) A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves, the
throttle/break and steering need to be seperate.  or your just asking
for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation.</p></div><p> Sorry, you can't make a generalization like that. Planes are even
more complex, and handle it perfectly well.  Sticks are used because
they come naturally to pilots within a few of hours of training. You'd
have to run a whole bunch of experiments on people (including on young
people who haven't learned to drive with a steering) before you can make
a statement like that.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>3) I guarantee you, steering fatigue will set in if a drivers only means
for controlling the vehicle are with one hand.</p></div><p>
Your "guarantee" is worthless. Pilots fly for hours and don't undergo
steering fatigue. BTW, did you miss the part where it said "designed for short trips"? RTFA.

<br>
4) I could go on but I think most of these issues are quite
obvious.</p><p>Not really. Is this your way of saying "etc."?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) As somebody else mentioned , power steering failure is a big one Already addressed as a child to that post by AC -- check it out.2 ) A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves , the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate .
or your just asking for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation .
Sorry , you ca n't make a generalization like that .
Planes are even more complex , and handle it perfectly well .
Sticks are used because they come naturally to pilots within a few of hours of training .
You 'd have to run a whole bunch of experiments on people ( including on young people who have n't learned to drive with a steering ) before you can make a statement like that.3 ) I guarantee you , steering fatigue will set in if a drivers only means for controlling the vehicle are with one hand .
Your " guarantee " is worthless .
Pilots fly for hours and do n't undergo steering fatigue .
BTW , did you miss the part where it said " designed for short trips " ?
RTFA . 4 ) I could go on but I think most of these issues are quite obvious.Not really .
Is this your way of saying " etc .
" ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) As somebody else mentioned, power steering failure is a big one
Already addressed as a child to that post by AC -- check it out.2) A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves, the
throttle/break and steering need to be seperate.
or your just asking
for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation.
Sorry, you can't make a generalization like that.
Planes are even
more complex, and handle it perfectly well.
Sticks are used because
they come naturally to pilots within a few of hours of training.
You'd
have to run a whole bunch of experiments on people (including on young
people who haven't learned to drive with a steering) before you can make
a statement like that.3) I guarantee you, steering fatigue will set in if a drivers only means
for controlling the vehicle are with one hand.
Your "guarantee" is worthless.
Pilots fly for hours and don't undergo
steering fatigue.
BTW, did you miss the part where it said "designed for short trips"?
RTFA.


4) I could go on but I think most of these issues are quite
obvious.Not really.
Is this your way of saying "etc.
"?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824379</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>Daniel\_Staal</author>
	<datestamp>1256144520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Given that it's an electric car (so the common power-steering system would need adjustments anyway) and they said it would be all drive-by-wire, I'd assume you'd be just as stuck with a steering wheel, as it wouldn't be directly connected to the wheels anyway.</p><p>Given this is a just a demo, I'm sure they haven't worked all the bugs out, but this sounds like a solvable problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that it 's an electric car ( so the common power-steering system would need adjustments anyway ) and they said it would be all drive-by-wire , I 'd assume you 'd be just as stuck with a steering wheel , as it would n't be directly connected to the wheels anyway.Given this is a just a demo , I 'm sure they have n't worked all the bugs out , but this sounds like a solvable problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that it's an electric car (so the common power-steering system would need adjustments anyway) and they said it would be all drive-by-wire, I'd assume you'd be just as stuck with a steering wheel, as it wouldn't be directly connected to the wheels anyway.Given this is a just a demo, I'm sure they haven't worked all the bugs out, but this sounds like a solvable problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29836567</id>
	<title>VOLVO had a joystick prototype in the late 80's</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256232540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>VOLVO had a joystick prototype in the late 80's early 90's.  I remember watching "beyond 2000" or some "future" show as a kid where some dude was driving a Volvo with no steering wheel, no gas pedal, and no brake pedal.  He had his hand on a joystick where a console shifter would be.  He pushed forward and the car went forward, he let it return to the middle and the car slowed down and stopped, he pulled back and it went in reverse.  The lack of pedals and steering wheel made the drivers seat safer.  They said they were trying to work out some problems with bumps causing eradic turning motions since it was all drive by wire, and the forward throttle took some getting used to as did any panic braking.  That was 20 years ago!  Where the hell is this thing?  Why are we always reinventing the wheel?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>VOLVO had a joystick prototype in the late 80 's early 90 's .
I remember watching " beyond 2000 " or some " future " show as a kid where some dude was driving a Volvo with no steering wheel , no gas pedal , and no brake pedal .
He had his hand on a joystick where a console shifter would be .
He pushed forward and the car went forward , he let it return to the middle and the car slowed down and stopped , he pulled back and it went in reverse .
The lack of pedals and steering wheel made the drivers seat safer .
They said they were trying to work out some problems with bumps causing eradic turning motions since it was all drive by wire , and the forward throttle took some getting used to as did any panic braking .
That was 20 years ago !
Where the hell is this thing ?
Why are we always reinventing the wheel ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>VOLVO had a joystick prototype in the late 80's early 90's.
I remember watching "beyond 2000" or some "future" show as a kid where some dude was driving a Volvo with no steering wheel, no gas pedal, and no brake pedal.
He had his hand on a joystick where a console shifter would be.
He pushed forward and the car went forward, he let it return to the middle and the car slowed down and stopped, he pulled back and it went in reverse.
The lack of pedals and steering wheel made the drivers seat safer.
They said they were trying to work out some problems with bumps causing eradic turning motions since it was all drive by wire, and the forward throttle took some getting used to as did any panic braking.
That was 20 years ago!
Where the hell is this thing?
Why are we always reinventing the wheel?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827817</id>
	<title>Re:change drivers without stopping</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256115720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Finally the UK and USA can have a standard configuration!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Finally the UK and USA can have a standard configuration !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Finally the UK and USA can have a standard configuration!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825197</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29832207</id>
	<title>Missing tag:</title>
	<author>onemorechip</author>
	<datestamp>1256151240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>whatcouldpossiblygowrong?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>whatcouldpossiblygowrong ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>whatcouldpossiblygowrong?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29836867</id>
	<title>Steering Ratio and Centering Force</title>
	<author>KingTank</author>
	<datestamp>1256233800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is one problem with this that seems like a showstopper to me.  A road car steering wheel needs to have light enough steering centering forces to avoid tiring the driver and so that the tiniest old lady can drive it.  A steering wheel provides for this by using a large range of motion to control the steering.  A joystick can't provide that much range of motion, so it would have to be designed with much stronger forces to make sure it isn't overly sensitive to the lightest touch.  Otherwise the driver would constantly be overcorrecting and weaving all over the road.  And then like I said, if they make the steering too heavy, then the driver will become tired and the elderly and physically disabled will have difficulty driving it.  A steering wheel is a logical solution for this problem because it just spins around.  The range of motion consists of spinning in place so it makes good use of space inside the vehicle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is one problem with this that seems like a showstopper to me .
A road car steering wheel needs to have light enough steering centering forces to avoid tiring the driver and so that the tiniest old lady can drive it .
A steering wheel provides for this by using a large range of motion to control the steering .
A joystick ca n't provide that much range of motion , so it would have to be designed with much stronger forces to make sure it is n't overly sensitive to the lightest touch .
Otherwise the driver would constantly be overcorrecting and weaving all over the road .
And then like I said , if they make the steering too heavy , then the driver will become tired and the elderly and physically disabled will have difficulty driving it .
A steering wheel is a logical solution for this problem because it just spins around .
The range of motion consists of spinning in place so it makes good use of space inside the vehicle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is one problem with this that seems like a showstopper to me.
A road car steering wheel needs to have light enough steering centering forces to avoid tiring the driver and so that the tiniest old lady can drive it.
A steering wheel provides for this by using a large range of motion to control the steering.
A joystick can't provide that much range of motion, so it would have to be designed with much stronger forces to make sure it isn't overly sensitive to the lightest touch.
Otherwise the driver would constantly be overcorrecting and weaving all over the road.
And then like I said, if they make the steering too heavy, then the driver will become tired and the elderly and physically disabled will have difficulty driving it.
A steering wheel is a logical solution for this problem because it just spins around.
The range of motion consists of spinning in place so it makes good use of space inside the vehicle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825257</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>Red Flayer</author>
	<datestamp>1256148540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Modern cars, sadly, have little of the feedback of old. I'm convinced this makes them less safe, because you can't feel what the road's doing under you like you used to.</p></div></blockquote><p>That's why I intentionally damage my shock absorbers in every vehicle I buy, so I can get maximum feedback of the road surface.<br> <br>So far, so good, though the members of my carpool have been less than enthusiastic about wearing their coffee on their shirts when I drive.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Modern cars , sadly , have little of the feedback of old .
I 'm convinced this makes them less safe , because you ca n't feel what the road 's doing under you like you used to.That 's why I intentionally damage my shock absorbers in every vehicle I buy , so I can get maximum feedback of the road surface .
So far , so good , though the members of my carpool have been less than enthusiastic about wearing their coffee on their shirts when I drive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Modern cars, sadly, have little of the feedback of old.
I'm convinced this makes them less safe, because you can't feel what the road's doing under you like you used to.That's why I intentionally damage my shock absorbers in every vehicle I buy, so I can get maximum feedback of the road surface.
So far, so good, though the members of my carpool have been less than enthusiastic about wearing their coffee on their shirts when I drive.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824293</id>
	<title>Yeah! 80's technology...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256144220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>finally making it into cars. I hope they look at the evolution of joysticks and realize a thumb-stick is better. The feedback from your body moving is all you need. That is what is missing from driving games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>finally making it into cars .
I hope they look at the evolution of joysticks and realize a thumb-stick is better .
The feedback from your body moving is all you need .
That is what is missing from driving games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>finally making it into cars.
I hope they look at the evolution of joysticks and realize a thumb-stick is better.
The feedback from your body moving is all you need.
That is what is missing from driving games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824649</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>Bertie</author>
	<datestamp>1256145900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Modern cars, sadly, have little of the feedback of old.  I'm convinced this makes them less safe, because you can't feel what the road's doing under you like you used to.  This, coupled with ever-fatter tyres which grip and grip and grip and then <i>suddenly don't grip</i>, adds up to bad news.  But people mostly manage.  Feedback's great, but it doesn't seem to be necessary for most driving conditions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Modern cars , sadly , have little of the feedback of old .
I 'm convinced this makes them less safe , because you ca n't feel what the road 's doing under you like you used to .
This , coupled with ever-fatter tyres which grip and grip and grip and then suddenly do n't grip , adds up to bad news .
But people mostly manage .
Feedback 's great , but it does n't seem to be necessary for most driving conditions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Modern cars, sadly, have little of the feedback of old.
I'm convinced this makes them less safe, because you can't feel what the road's doing under you like you used to.
This, coupled with ever-fatter tyres which grip and grip and grip and then suddenly don't grip, adds up to bad news.
But people mostly manage.
Feedback's great, but it doesn't seem to be necessary for most driving conditions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824225</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824783</id>
	<title>Full turn at the flick of your wrist...bad idea</title>
	<author>DomNF15</author>
	<datestamp>1256146560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At least with a steering wheel you have to make 2 or 3 full revolutions to get the wheels at a full turn angle, with a joystick it would just be a flick of your wrist.  Can you say flip over?</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least with a steering wheel you have to make 2 or 3 full revolutions to get the wheels at a full turn angle , with a joystick it would just be a flick of your wrist .
Can you say flip over ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least with a steering wheel you have to make 2 or 3 full revolutions to get the wheels at a full turn angle, with a joystick it would just be a flick of your wrist.
Can you say flip over?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29828219</id>
	<title>Re:Great</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1256117220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As far as I know, Jet Fighters aren't designed for right or left-handedness either, and in fact the Joystick sits right between their legs.</p><p>I mean thats what hollywood has led me to believe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as I know , Jet Fighters are n't designed for right or left-handedness either , and in fact the Joystick sits right between their legs.I mean thats what hollywood has led me to believe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as I know, Jet Fighters aren't designed for right or left-handedness either, and in fact the Joystick sits right between their legs.I mean thats what hollywood has led me to believe.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824747</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825093</id>
	<title>hands</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256147820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How am I suppose to hold my cell phone, cigarette and drink my coffee?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How am I suppose to hold my cell phone , cigarette and drink my coffee ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How am I suppose to hold my cell phone, cigarette and drink my coffee?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29831003</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>sincewhen</author>
	<datestamp>1256134920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Many modern cars have electric power steering. <p>I'm not certain, but I would think that these would still work normally if the engine stops. </p><p>
Now, if you have electrical problems, you could still be in trouble.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many modern cars have electric power steering .
I 'm not certain , but I would think that these would still work normally if the engine stops .
Now , if you have electrical problems , you could still be in trouble .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many modern cars have electric power steering.
I'm not certain, but I would think that these would still work normally if the engine stops.
Now, if you have electrical problems, you could still be in trouble.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29830509</id>
	<title>Re:Special license needed?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256130660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>indicators is the stick on the right.</p></div><p>What, you drove one car and decided this is the international standard?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>indicators is the stick on the right.What , you drove one car and decided this is the international standard ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>indicators is the stick on the right.What, you drove one car and decided this is the international standard?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824307</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826011</id>
	<title>Preparing</title>
	<author>DiceRoller</author>
	<datestamp>1256151360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder if they are trying to prepare us for flying cars?  Just like the computer mouse.  You introduce new concepts slowly so that the next new technology is easier to grasp.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if they are trying to prepare us for flying cars ?
Just like the computer mouse .
You introduce new concepts slowly so that the next new technology is easier to grasp .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if they are trying to prepare us for flying cars?
Just like the computer mouse.
You introduce new concepts slowly so that the next new technology is easier to grasp.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826845</id>
	<title>Is there a Darwin Award for Ideas?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256154540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cause this has to be the worst idea ever!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cause this has to be the worst idea ever !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cause this has to be the worst idea ever!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827425</id>
	<title>Re:Johnny Cab</title>
	<author>Burpmaster</author>
	<datestamp>1256157180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I wonder if Honda or Nissan will now go for a Wii controller?</p></div><p>Accelerometer-based controls for a moving vehicle? I don't see why not!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if Honda or Nissan will now go for a Wii controller ? Accelerometer-based controls for a moving vehicle ?
I do n't see why not !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if Honda or Nissan will now go for a Wii controller?Accelerometer-based controls for a moving vehicle?
I don't see why not!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826831</id>
	<title>Re:I seem to remember</title>
	<author>Hijacked Public</author>
	<datestamp>1256154480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Toro has built a ton of joystick controlled lawnmowers, most of them of the zero turning radius type.</p><p>People either love them or hate them, with the majority tending toward hate. You'd think it would lessen the strain for a person who cuts for a living, but they overwhelming prefer the two lever controls you see on most other zero turns.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Toro has built a ton of joystick controlled lawnmowers , most of them of the zero turning radius type.People either love them or hate them , with the majority tending toward hate .
You 'd think it would lessen the strain for a person who cuts for a living , but they overwhelming prefer the two lever controls you see on most other zero turns .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Toro has built a ton of joystick controlled lawnmowers, most of them of the zero turning radius type.People either love them or hate them, with the majority tending toward hate.
You'd think it would lessen the strain for a person who cuts for a living, but they overwhelming prefer the two lever controls you see on most other zero turns.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824309</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29830177</id>
	<title>Forgive me if someone already said this but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256128200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Talk about reinventing the wheel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Talk about reinventing the wheel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Talk about reinventing the wheel.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824507</id>
	<title>HOTAS for cars?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256145240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Add a decent HUD as well...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Add a decent HUD as well.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Add a decent HUD as well...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824269</id>
	<title>joystick vs k&amp;m</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256144100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What, no keyboard + mouse option?</p><p>-l</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What , no keyboard + mouse option ? -l</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What, no keyboard + mouse option?-l</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824255</id>
	<title>Old news - Saab tried this in the 80s</title>
	<author>Viol8</author>
	<datestamp>1256144040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They had some experimental vehicle that used a joystick. Upshot was that the joystick is NOT a good way to control a car due to its small range of movement. Doing subtle manouvering was a right PITA. Sure , technology may improve things but frankly a steering wheel gives perfect feedback for what it does and if something ain't broken...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They had some experimental vehicle that used a joystick .
Upshot was that the joystick is NOT a good way to control a car due to its small range of movement .
Doing subtle manouvering was a right PITA .
Sure , technology may improve things but frankly a steering wheel gives perfect feedback for what it does and if something ai n't broken.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They had some experimental vehicle that used a joystick.
Upshot was that the joystick is NOT a good way to control a car due to its small range of movement.
Doing subtle manouvering was a right PITA.
Sure , technology may improve things but frankly a steering wheel gives perfect feedback for what it does and if something ain't broken...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29832579</id>
	<title>Re:Old news - Saab tried this in the 80s</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256243700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are already vehicles with joystick steering, such as the large front-end loaders used in construction and mining etc.  The Cat 988F (or G somewhere there) had joystick control about 10 years ago.  Joystick was steering, still had pedals for accel/brake.</p><p>It takes a bit getting used to but becomes very natural after an hour or two.  These used hydraulic accuation and it was very touchy.  If you moved the stick too far, or went fast over bumpy ground which would inadvertantly move your hand, it would be quiet jerky, but you sooned got used to doing things nice a smooth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are already vehicles with joystick steering , such as the large front-end loaders used in construction and mining etc .
The Cat 988F ( or G somewhere there ) had joystick control about 10 years ago .
Joystick was steering , still had pedals for accel/brake.It takes a bit getting used to but becomes very natural after an hour or two .
These used hydraulic accuation and it was very touchy .
If you moved the stick too far , or went fast over bumpy ground which would inadvertantly move your hand , it would be quiet jerky , but you sooned got used to doing things nice a smooth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are already vehicles with joystick steering, such as the large front-end loaders used in construction and mining etc.
The Cat 988F (or G somewhere there) had joystick control about 10 years ago.
Joystick was steering, still had pedals for accel/brake.It takes a bit getting used to but becomes very natural after an hour or two.
These used hydraulic accuation and it was very touchy.
If you moved the stick too far, or went fast over bumpy ground which would inadvertantly move your hand, it would be quiet jerky, but you sooned got used to doing things nice a smooth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824255</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824833</id>
	<title>It's just for show.</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1256146740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Joystick steering has been tried, and it sucks.
</p><p>
General Motors tried it with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General\_Motors\_Firebird" title="wikipedia.org">Firebird III</a> [wikipedia.org] in 1958.  That car also featured automatic lane-holding, using a wire in the pavement.  The vehicle was very hard to control, but it looked really cool.
</p><p>
When we did our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle, at one point we were controlling it remotely over a WiFi link for test purposes.  We tried a joystick, but it was too easy to overcontrol. We got a Logitech racing game steering wheel (a USB peripheral) and pedals, interfaced those, and the thing was easily driveable remotely.  That was without force feedback on the wheel, incidentally.  (That wheel has "force feedback", but it's set up to take an audio track for vibration, not a desired position, so the HID interface doesn't properly support positional feedback.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Joystick steering has been tried , and it sucks .
General Motors tried it with Firebird III [ wikipedia.org ] in 1958 .
That car also featured automatic lane-holding , using a wire in the pavement .
The vehicle was very hard to control , but it looked really cool .
When we did our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle , at one point we were controlling it remotely over a WiFi link for test purposes .
We tried a joystick , but it was too easy to overcontrol .
We got a Logitech racing game steering wheel ( a USB peripheral ) and pedals , interfaced those , and the thing was easily driveable remotely .
That was without force feedback on the wheel , incidentally .
( That wheel has " force feedback " , but it 's set up to take an audio track for vibration , not a desired position , so the HID interface does n't properly support positional feedback .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Joystick steering has been tried, and it sucks.
General Motors tried it with Firebird III [wikipedia.org] in 1958.
That car also featured automatic lane-holding, using a wire in the pavement.
The vehicle was very hard to control, but it looked really cool.
When we did our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle, at one point we were controlling it remotely over a WiFi link for test purposes.
We tried a joystick, but it was too easy to overcontrol.
We got a Logitech racing game steering wheel (a USB peripheral) and pedals, interfaced those, and the thing was easily driveable remotely.
That was without force feedback on the wheel, incidentally.
(That wheel has "force feedback", but it's set up to take an audio track for vibration, not a desired position, so the HID interface doesn't properly support positional feedback.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826113</id>
	<title>Re:Great</title>
	<author>natehoy</author>
	<datestamp>1256151720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sit in the other seat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sit in the other seat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sit in the other seat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824747</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825135</id>
	<title>motor control</title>
	<author>Missing\_dc</author>
	<datestamp>1256147940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Motor control, yours, not the car.<br>Not everyone can be a surgeon, not because of lack of funds, but lack of fine motor control.  The size of the joystick makes a huge difference. How many of us were clumsy as F**k when we were growing up?  Ever get an adrenaline rush? Remember the shakes that go with it? A near accident would do that for a person, and holding the (nice secure) steering wheel with both hands as you calm down is common. Imagine those shakes affecting your car.  My Father-in-law gets tremors he can't control, what would happen to his driving? What if your blood sugar drops and you get shaky or lose your fine motor control? Too much caffeine or nicotine...<br>Does the joystick support the weight of the arm that is controlling it?  Most people cannot hold their arms out for very long, muscle fatigue sets in.  I think the idea sounds good, but most people could not handle joysticks at all much less switch to them from regular controls.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Motor control , yours , not the car.Not everyone can be a surgeon , not because of lack of funds , but lack of fine motor control .
The size of the joystick makes a huge difference .
How many of us were clumsy as F * * k when we were growing up ?
Ever get an adrenaline rush ?
Remember the shakes that go with it ?
A near accident would do that for a person , and holding the ( nice secure ) steering wheel with both hands as you calm down is common .
Imagine those shakes affecting your car .
My Father-in-law gets tremors he ca n't control , what would happen to his driving ?
What if your blood sugar drops and you get shaky or lose your fine motor control ?
Too much caffeine or nicotine...Does the joystick support the weight of the arm that is controlling it ?
Most people can not hold their arms out for very long , muscle fatigue sets in .
I think the idea sounds good , but most people could not handle joysticks at all much less switch to them from regular controls .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Motor control, yours, not the car.Not everyone can be a surgeon, not because of lack of funds, but lack of fine motor control.
The size of the joystick makes a huge difference.
How many of us were clumsy as F**k when we were growing up?
Ever get an adrenaline rush?
Remember the shakes that go with it?
A near accident would do that for a person, and holding the (nice secure) steering wheel with both hands as you calm down is common.
Imagine those shakes affecting your car.
My Father-in-law gets tremors he can't control, what would happen to his driving?
What if your blood sugar drops and you get shaky or lose your fine motor control?
Too much caffeine or nicotine...Does the joystick support the weight of the arm that is controlling it?
Most people cannot hold their arms out for very long, muscle fatigue sets in.
I think the idea sounds good, but most people could not handle joysticks at all much less switch to them from regular controls.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824607</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>dnahelicase</author>
	<datestamp>1256145720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If I remember right, the Wright Brothers big contribution was that they came up with the idea of a joystick in a plane so as to control a 3-axis flight.  A car really only moves in right-left-front-back.  A joystick can easily be done on a car, since disabled people have been using these for a while now, but doesn't seem as intuitive as the centuries old wheel.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I remember right , the Wright Brothers big contribution was that they came up with the idea of a joystick in a plane so as to control a 3-axis flight .
A car really only moves in right-left-front-back .
A joystick can easily be done on a car , since disabled people have been using these for a while now , but does n't seem as intuitive as the centuries old wheel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I remember right, the Wright Brothers big contribution was that they came up with the idea of a joystick in a plane so as to control a 3-axis flight.
A car really only moves in right-left-front-back.
A joystick can easily be done on a car, since disabled people have been using these for a while now, but doesn't seem as intuitive as the centuries old wheel.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824279</id>
	<title>next step</title>
	<author>NudeAvenger</author>
	<datestamp>1256144160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Trackball cars! Though it won't be fully finished until we have a touchscreen with the patented apple zoom gesture to accelerate</htmltext>
<tokenext>Trackball cars !
Though it wo n't be fully finished until we have a touchscreen with the patented apple zoom gesture to accelerate</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Trackball cars!
Though it won't be fully finished until we have a touchscreen with the patented apple zoom gesture to accelerate</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29836145</id>
	<title>Re:Johnny Cab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256230560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, it's, "Helluva day, isn't it??"</p><p>But yeah... funny (3)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , it 's , " Helluva day , is n't it ? ?
" But yeah... funny ( 3 )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, it's, "Helluva day, isn't it??
"But yeah... funny (3)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824215</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824965</id>
	<title>Seen it before</title>
	<author>cdub1900</author>
	<datestamp>1256147280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I remember seeing this as a kid in one of the "cars of the future" at Epcot Center.  Seemed like a gamer's dream-come-true at the time.  Was so disappointed when I was old enough to drive and it still wasn't available in any cars.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember seeing this as a kid in one of the " cars of the future " at Epcot Center .
Seemed like a gamer 's dream-come-true at the time .
Was so disappointed when I was old enough to drive and it still was n't available in any cars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember seeing this as a kid in one of the "cars of the future" at Epcot Center.
Seemed like a gamer's dream-come-true at the time.
Was so disappointed when I was old enough to drive and it still wasn't available in any cars.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29833301</id>
	<title>A car is too small/fast for joystick control....</title>
	<author>gkai</author>
	<datestamp>1256210820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you look at various vehicles, the smaller it is, the more direct the control is, and there are good reasons for that:</p><p>In a small vehicle, there are a lot of feedbacks (vibration, inertial forces, sound) that help the driver control it, in fact it adds a lot of information above just vision and makes fine control possible.<br>If the vehicle is very small, there is also a direct influence on body position on the handling...This trend of "the smaller your vehicle is, the more direct the controls should be" is evident if you consider those few examples:</p><p>skateboard/rollers/ski/snowboard/...: direct control through your feets, huge influence of whole body, more like a different way of running than a vehicle : simulations sucks and are completely useless for mastering those sports</p><p>bicycle/motorcyle: direct control without multiplication of steering angle through handle bar, body position very important, need good balance, simulation very poor and almost useless for learning to drive.</p><p>quad: like a small car, but input is still direct and body position quite important. Balnaces skilss are not as vital as for 2-wheeled vehicles. Simulation stil not very usefull....</p><p>car: direct input with fixed demultiplication, body position mostly not relevant but still a lot of direct feedback. Simulation usefull, but not really for racedrivng or getting used to heavy traffic/different road conditions.</p><p>slow moving 4-wheeled vehicles, trucks: body position unimportant, few direct feedback (but still some),: Simulation quite usefull, except for traffic</p><p>planes, trains: body position unimportant, few direct feedback besides inertial forces (and approximating those with angling simulation cabins work good for large planes), no direct interraction with other vehicles. simualtion very usefull, you can really learn to pilot this way, because it is in a way a much more abstract and, yes, simpler control (hence the auto-pilot...)</p><p>Given that, extending stick driving to trucks may be feasible (but still, they are on the same roads as car)...</p><p>For car, it looks like a really really bad idea.</p><p>For motorcycles, it is simply suicide....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you look at various vehicles , the smaller it is , the more direct the control is , and there are good reasons for that : In a small vehicle , there are a lot of feedbacks ( vibration , inertial forces , sound ) that help the driver control it , in fact it adds a lot of information above just vision and makes fine control possible.If the vehicle is very small , there is also a direct influence on body position on the handling...This trend of " the smaller your vehicle is , the more direct the controls should be " is evident if you consider those few examples : skateboard/rollers/ski/snowboard/... : direct control through your feets , huge influence of whole body , more like a different way of running than a vehicle : simulations sucks and are completely useless for mastering those sportsbicycle/motorcyle : direct control without multiplication of steering angle through handle bar , body position very important , need good balance , simulation very poor and almost useless for learning to drive.quad : like a small car , but input is still direct and body position quite important .
Balnaces skilss are not as vital as for 2-wheeled vehicles .
Simulation stil not very usefull....car : direct input with fixed demultiplication , body position mostly not relevant but still a lot of direct feedback .
Simulation usefull , but not really for racedrivng or getting used to heavy traffic/different road conditions.slow moving 4-wheeled vehicles , trucks : body position unimportant , few direct feedback ( but still some ) , : Simulation quite usefull , except for trafficplanes , trains : body position unimportant , few direct feedback besides inertial forces ( and approximating those with angling simulation cabins work good for large planes ) , no direct interraction with other vehicles .
simualtion very usefull , you can really learn to pilot this way , because it is in a way a much more abstract and , yes , simpler control ( hence the auto-pilot... ) Given that , extending stick driving to trucks may be feasible ( but still , they are on the same roads as car ) ...For car , it looks like a really really bad idea.For motorcycles , it is simply suicide... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you look at various vehicles, the smaller it is, the more direct the control is, and there are good reasons for that:In a small vehicle, there are a lot of feedbacks (vibration, inertial forces, sound) that help the driver control it, in fact it adds a lot of information above just vision and makes fine control possible.If the vehicle is very small, there is also a direct influence on body position on the handling...This trend of "the smaller your vehicle is, the more direct the controls should be" is evident if you consider those few examples:skateboard/rollers/ski/snowboard/...: direct control through your feets, huge influence of whole body, more like a different way of running than a vehicle : simulations sucks and are completely useless for mastering those sportsbicycle/motorcyle: direct control without multiplication of steering angle through handle bar, body position very important, need good balance, simulation very poor and almost useless for learning to drive.quad: like a small car, but input is still direct and body position quite important.
Balnaces skilss are not as vital as for 2-wheeled vehicles.
Simulation stil not very usefull....car: direct input with fixed demultiplication, body position mostly not relevant but still a lot of direct feedback.
Simulation usefull, but not really for racedrivng or getting used to heavy traffic/different road conditions.slow moving 4-wheeled vehicles, trucks: body position unimportant, few direct feedback (but still some),: Simulation quite usefull, except for trafficplanes, trains: body position unimportant, few direct feedback besides inertial forces (and approximating those with angling simulation cabins work good for large planes), no direct interraction with other vehicles.
simualtion very usefull, you can really learn to pilot this way, because it is in a way a much more abstract and, yes, simpler control (hence the auto-pilot...)Given that, extending stick driving to trucks may be feasible (but still, they are on the same roads as car)...For car, it looks like a really really bad idea.For motorcycles, it is simply suicide....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825893</id>
	<title>Re:I can just see it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256150940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"or don't you think that someone would have put this to use on the F1 circuit already if it was actually better?"</p><p>There are a thousand things that definately are better that never show up on the F1 circuit. Why? Well because it's better. They have rules to keep the cars from going to fast, to keep computers out of the cocpit (This day and age a computer can and will outperform a driver, but the guys with money want to  keep the status que afraid they will lose add-money).<br>A good reason to keep joysticks out of the cockpit is that it requires a computer between the driver and car, a computer which would have to be constantly checked to make sure it's not correcting small angles in the turns, or anything sinister.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" or do n't you think that someone would have put this to use on the F1 circuit already if it was actually better ?
" There are a thousand things that definately are better that never show up on the F1 circuit .
Why ? Well because it 's better .
They have rules to keep the cars from going to fast , to keep computers out of the cocpit ( This day and age a computer can and will outperform a driver , but the guys with money want to keep the status que afraid they will lose add-money ) .A good reason to keep joysticks out of the cockpit is that it requires a computer between the driver and car , a computer which would have to be constantly checked to make sure it 's not correcting small angles in the turns , or anything sinister .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"or don't you think that someone would have put this to use on the F1 circuit already if it was actually better?
"There are a thousand things that definately are better that never show up on the F1 circuit.
Why? Well because it's better.
They have rules to keep the cars from going to fast, to keep computers out of the cocpit (This day and age a computer can and will outperform a driver, but the guys with money want to  keep the status que afraid they will lose add-money).A good reason to keep joysticks out of the cockpit is that it requires a computer between the driver and car, a computer which would have to be constantly checked to make sure it's not correcting small angles in the turns, or anything sinister.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824509</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29828041</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>FrameRotBlues</author>
	<datestamp>1256116620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not trying to be nitpicky, but a footnote in the (single-century old) annals of automotive history says that the first cars used "tillers," as what was needed was a long lever to apply enough torque to a steering shaft that required only a 30 degree or so range of motion.  It was unwieldy, but it worked because it was simple, and the worm and sector gearbox had not yet been invented (or at least utilized for that purpose).  Once the worm &amp; sector gearbox became the general choice to apply enough torque to a shaft, and the shaft was required to rotate more than 30 degrees to achieve the same purpose, it was obvious that the tiller was no longer an option, and a wheel became the method of rotating the steering shaft. <br> <br>

It's interesting to note that the Wright Bros. developed the airplane about the same time as other inventors were developing the automobile.  It would appear that they (the steering wheel and the joystick) were developed separately for their individual requirements:  The airplane required applying and removing tension from two cables simultaneously (I believe the original Flyer had one stick for pitch, and a separate stick for roll), whereas very few if any automobiles required simultaneously applying and removing tension from cables for steering purposes.<br> <br>

THEN!, you could even look at traction engines from around the same time period that combine the two ideas for steering simplicity, such as the Garr-Scott, the Huber, and the Mogul.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not trying to be nitpicky , but a footnote in the ( single-century old ) annals of automotive history says that the first cars used " tillers , " as what was needed was a long lever to apply enough torque to a steering shaft that required only a 30 degree or so range of motion .
It was unwieldy , but it worked because it was simple , and the worm and sector gearbox had not yet been invented ( or at least utilized for that purpose ) .
Once the worm &amp; sector gearbox became the general choice to apply enough torque to a shaft , and the shaft was required to rotate more than 30 degrees to achieve the same purpose , it was obvious that the tiller was no longer an option , and a wheel became the method of rotating the steering shaft .
It 's interesting to note that the Wright Bros. developed the airplane about the same time as other inventors were developing the automobile .
It would appear that they ( the steering wheel and the joystick ) were developed separately for their individual requirements : The airplane required applying and removing tension from two cables simultaneously ( I believe the original Flyer had one stick for pitch , and a separate stick for roll ) , whereas very few if any automobiles required simultaneously applying and removing tension from cables for steering purposes .
THEN ! , you could even look at traction engines from around the same time period that combine the two ideas for steering simplicity , such as the Garr-Scott , the Huber , and the Mogul .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not trying to be nitpicky, but a footnote in the (single-century old) annals of automotive history says that the first cars used "tillers," as what was needed was a long lever to apply enough torque to a steering shaft that required only a 30 degree or so range of motion.
It was unwieldy, but it worked because it was simple, and the worm and sector gearbox had not yet been invented (or at least utilized for that purpose).
Once the worm &amp; sector gearbox became the general choice to apply enough torque to a shaft, and the shaft was required to rotate more than 30 degrees to achieve the same purpose, it was obvious that the tiller was no longer an option, and a wheel became the method of rotating the steering shaft.
It's interesting to note that the Wright Bros. developed the airplane about the same time as other inventors were developing the automobile.
It would appear that they (the steering wheel and the joystick) were developed separately for their individual requirements:  The airplane required applying and removing tension from two cables simultaneously (I believe the original Flyer had one stick for pitch, and a separate stick for roll), whereas very few if any automobiles required simultaneously applying and removing tension from cables for steering purposes.
THEN!, you could even look at traction engines from around the same time period that combine the two ideas for steering simplicity, such as the Garr-Scott, the Huber, and the Mogul.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824607</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824779</id>
	<title>Re:Feel free to ignore</title>
	<author>Devout\_IPUite</author>
	<datestamp>1256146560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Won't happen. Wheels give you more control than joysticks. There's a reason they sell all those wheel toys for racing games (hint: it's because it's easier to play with those, not because it looks cool).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wo n't happen .
Wheels give you more control than joysticks .
There 's a reason they sell all those wheel toys for racing games ( hint : it 's because it 's easier to play with those , not because it looks cool ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Won't happen.
Wheels give you more control than joysticks.
There's a reason they sell all those wheel toys for racing games (hint: it's because it's easier to play with those, not because it looks cool).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825383</id>
	<title>I wrote a fly-by-wire application to control ....</title>
	<author>Jerry</author>
	<datestamp>1256149080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the ag tractor a friend of mine built and recently patented.</p><p>He insisted that it include a joy stick for steering control.  I reminded him that a tractor would not respond to a joy stick movement the same way an airplane would, but he wanted one anyway, so I added code for it.  Luckily I didn't rip out the steering wheel control code so he easily switched back over it with the push of a single button on the display panel after he discovered that the range of motion of the joystick wasn't great enough to map onto the range of motion of the wheels (four wheel drive, independently controlled).  Moving the joystick out of the neutral position took enough effort that when the mechanical centering devices finally let go the joystick moved farther than he wanted it to move and the motion of the tractor became jerky as he tried to correct over-runs.  We tried the entire range of sensitivity settings but none proved satisfactory.    Now it is set so that when he reaches the end of a row a full left or right on the joystick creates the tightest turn possible so he can get a 180 degree turn on the tractor in order to line up for the next pass down the field, then it is back to the steering wheel.  Driving down the road between fields he uses the steering wheel in front wheel steer mode (as apposed to back wheel, crab or circle steer modes).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the ag tractor a friend of mine built and recently patented.He insisted that it include a joy stick for steering control .
I reminded him that a tractor would not respond to a joy stick movement the same way an airplane would , but he wanted one anyway , so I added code for it .
Luckily I did n't rip out the steering wheel control code so he easily switched back over it with the push of a single button on the display panel after he discovered that the range of motion of the joystick was n't great enough to map onto the range of motion of the wheels ( four wheel drive , independently controlled ) .
Moving the joystick out of the neutral position took enough effort that when the mechanical centering devices finally let go the joystick moved farther than he wanted it to move and the motion of the tractor became jerky as he tried to correct over-runs .
We tried the entire range of sensitivity settings but none proved satisfactory .
Now it is set so that when he reaches the end of a row a full left or right on the joystick creates the tightest turn possible so he can get a 180 degree turn on the tractor in order to line up for the next pass down the field , then it is back to the steering wheel .
Driving down the road between fields he uses the steering wheel in front wheel steer mode ( as apposed to back wheel , crab or circle steer modes ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the ag tractor a friend of mine built and recently patented.He insisted that it include a joy stick for steering control.
I reminded him that a tractor would not respond to a joy stick movement the same way an airplane would, but he wanted one anyway, so I added code for it.
Luckily I didn't rip out the steering wheel control code so he easily switched back over it with the push of a single button on the display panel after he discovered that the range of motion of the joystick wasn't great enough to map onto the range of motion of the wheels (four wheel drive, independently controlled).
Moving the joystick out of the neutral position took enough effort that when the mechanical centering devices finally let go the joystick moved farther than he wanted it to move and the motion of the tractor became jerky as he tried to correct over-runs.
We tried the entire range of sensitivity settings but none proved satisfactory.
Now it is set so that when he reaches the end of a row a full left or right on the joystick creates the tightest turn possible so he can get a 180 degree turn on the tractor in order to line up for the next pass down the field, then it is back to the steering wheel.
Driving down the road between fields he uses the steering wheel in front wheel steer mode (as apposed to back wheel, crab or circle steer modes).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825329</id>
	<title>Re:zomg</title>
	<author>yurtinus</author>
	<datestamp>1256148900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>eh... Joysticks are great for maneuvering in 3d space, the motions are very intuitive for what is actually happening with whatever you're controlling. Car control really only matters in two dimensions (...usually) which a wheel is perfect for. You can definitely learn new control methods, but I have a hard time thinking of a more intuitive system than a wheel for navigating something that doesn't steer up and down.</htmltext>
<tokenext>eh... Joysticks are great for maneuvering in 3d space , the motions are very intuitive for what is actually happening with whatever you 're controlling .
Car control really only matters in two dimensions ( ...usually ) which a wheel is perfect for .
You can definitely learn new control methods , but I have a hard time thinking of a more intuitive system than a wheel for navigating something that does n't steer up and down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>eh... Joysticks are great for maneuvering in 3d space, the motions are very intuitive for what is actually happening with whatever you're controlling.
Car control really only matters in two dimensions (...usually) which a wheel is perfect for.
You can definitely learn new control methods, but I have a hard time thinking of a more intuitive system than a wheel for navigating something that doesn't steer up and down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824239</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29830581</id>
	<title>Re:joystick vs k&amp;m</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1256131140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What, no keyboard + mouse option?</p></div><p>Spot on - when I drive a car, I want strafe keys at my fingertips, and nothing beats WASD for that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What , no keyboard + mouse option ? Spot on - when I drive a car , I want strafe keys at my fingertips , and nothing beats WASD for that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What, no keyboard + mouse option?Spot on - when I drive a car, I want strafe keys at my fingertips, and nothing beats WASD for that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825223</id>
	<title>Re:Joystick control</title>
	<author>siriuskase</author>
	<datestamp>1256148360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's not how I stop my car in an emergency.  I tend to use the emergency break, right next to my stick shift.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's not how I stop my car in an emergency .
I tend to use the emergency break , right next to my stick shift .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's not how I stop my car in an emergency.
I tend to use the emergency break, right next to my stick shift.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826611</id>
	<title>Re:Great</title>
	<author>sexconker</author>
	<datestamp>1256153640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People turning 16 or 18 depending on gender have been using a joystick for 16 or 18 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People turning 16 or 18 depending on gender have been using a joystick for 16 or 18 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People turning 16 or 18 depending on gender have been using a joystick for 16 or 18 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824885</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825939</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256151120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate. or your just asking for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation.</p></div></blockquote><p>Yes, because motorcycles are not at all maneuverable in emergency situations.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate .
or your just asking for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation.Yes , because motorcycles are not at all maneuverable in emergency situations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate.
or your just asking for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation.Yes, because motorcycles are not at all maneuverable in emergency situations.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824351</id>
	<title>So many problems...</title>
	<author>ZenDragon</author>
	<datestamp>1256144460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are so many problems with this idea I cant even imgaine...<br>
     1) As somebody else mentioned, power steering failure is a big one <br>
     2) A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves, the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate. <br>
         or your just asking for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation.<br>
     3) I guarantee you, steering fatigue will set in if a drivers only means for controlling the vehicle are with one hand.<br>
     4) I could go on but I think most of these issues are quite obvious.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are so many problems with this idea I cant even imgaine.. . 1 ) As somebody else mentioned , power steering failure is a big one 2 ) A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves , the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate .
or your just asking for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation .
3 ) I guarantee you , steering fatigue will set in if a drivers only means for controlling the vehicle are with one hand .
4 ) I could go on but I think most of these issues are quite obvious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are so many problems with this idea I cant even imgaine...
     1) As somebody else mentioned, power steering failure is a big one 
     2) A car does not move conducive to the way a joystick moves, the throttle/break and steering need to be seperate.
or your just asking for trouble in a hard turn or emergency situation.
3) I guarantee you, steering fatigue will set in if a drivers only means for controlling the vehicle are with one hand.
4) I could go on but I think most of these issues are quite obvious.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824227</id>
	<title>They should just put USB ports into the dash</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256143920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then I can use a rumblepad or even a force-feedback racing wheel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then I can use a rumblepad or even a force-feedback racing wheel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then I can use a rumblepad or even a force-feedback racing wheel.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29829553</id>
	<title>Re:Johnny Cab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256123820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Considering I get everything working, I'll be doing a little demo as part of the hybrid vehical team where the car can be controlled with a wii-mote.</p><p>Sadly, we can't use that in the competitions, as that is, for whatever reason, considered a safety issue<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering I get everything working , I 'll be doing a little demo as part of the hybrid vehical team where the car can be controlled with a wii-mote.Sadly , we ca n't use that in the competitions , as that is , for whatever reason , considered a safety issue : -P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering I get everything working, I'll be doing a little demo as part of the hybrid vehical team where the car can be controlled with a wii-mote.Sadly, we can't use that in the competitions, as that is, for whatever reason, considered a safety issue :-P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824799</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>mortonda</author>
	<datestamp>1256146620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>When I was pretty new to driving, I was rolling down a residential street in my dad's '78 Cougar.  The engine died and the power steering went with it.  I wasn't going too fast, but I was rolling straight toward a parked car.  It took all I had to slowly pull the car into a turn.  </p></div><p>...or you could have pulled the emergency brake<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was pretty new to driving , I was rolling down a residential street in my dad 's '78 Cougar .
The engine died and the power steering went with it .
I was n't going too fast , but I was rolling straight toward a parked car .
It took all I had to slowly pull the car into a turn .
...or you could have pulled the emergency brake .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was pretty new to driving, I was rolling down a residential street in my dad's '78 Cougar.
The engine died and the power steering went with it.
I wasn't going too fast, but I was rolling straight toward a parked car.
It took all I had to slowly pull the car into a turn.
...or you could have pulled the emergency brake ...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825765</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256150400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think that is one of the reasons I prefer a pickup to cars. I occasionally drive my GF's car and I swear it feels like a couch going down the highway, just too disconnected from everything else, whereas in my Ranger it feels the road more, at least IMHO. In her car trying to judge speed just by feel is a PITA, in my Ranger I never need to look at the speedometer because I can tell by feel exactly what speed the vehicle is doing, whther the tires are getting good traction, etc.</p><p>

 Maybe it is just because I grew up with the 70s muscle cars where you could really feel the road underneath, but today's cars just feel too soft to me. So while I have no doubt folks can get used to it, just like my GF likes the way her car feels like a flying couch, me I will always prefer feeling the road underneath me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that is one of the reasons I prefer a pickup to cars .
I occasionally drive my GF 's car and I swear it feels like a couch going down the highway , just too disconnected from everything else , whereas in my Ranger it feels the road more , at least IMHO .
In her car trying to judge speed just by feel is a PITA , in my Ranger I never need to look at the speedometer because I can tell by feel exactly what speed the vehicle is doing , whther the tires are getting good traction , etc .
Maybe it is just because I grew up with the 70s muscle cars where you could really feel the road underneath , but today 's cars just feel too soft to me .
So while I have no doubt folks can get used to it , just like my GF likes the way her car feels like a flying couch , me I will always prefer feeling the road underneath me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that is one of the reasons I prefer a pickup to cars.
I occasionally drive my GF's car and I swear it feels like a couch going down the highway, just too disconnected from everything else, whereas in my Ranger it feels the road more, at least IMHO.
In her car trying to judge speed just by feel is a PITA, in my Ranger I never need to look at the speedometer because I can tell by feel exactly what speed the vehicle is doing, whther the tires are getting good traction, etc.
Maybe it is just because I grew up with the 70s muscle cars where you could really feel the road underneath, but today's cars just feel too soft to me.
So while I have no doubt folks can get used to it, just like my GF likes the way her car feels like a flying couch, me I will always prefer feeling the road underneath me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824375</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>stoolpigeon</author>
	<datestamp>1256144520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was pretty new to driving, I was rolling down a residential street in my dad's '78 Cougar.  The engine died and the power steering went with it.  I wasn't going too fast, but I was rolling straight toward a parked car.  It took all I had to slowly pull the car into a turn.  It was a very strange sensation, slowly heading towards a fender bender as I worked at the wheel.  I did manage it, and it wouldn't have been too bad for me physically, but the other car was much newer and smaller and I would have probably banged it up pretty good.<br>
&nbsp; <br>I lost power steering in my '83 Celica when a belt broke.  I was on the freeway and didn't even notice until I exited onto surface streets and could feel that it was much more difficult to turn.  In either case with a fly-by-wire type system I'd have been in trouble.  Having a mechanical backup for a loss of power is essential.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was pretty new to driving , I was rolling down a residential street in my dad 's '78 Cougar .
The engine died and the power steering went with it .
I was n't going too fast , but I was rolling straight toward a parked car .
It took all I had to slowly pull the car into a turn .
It was a very strange sensation , slowly heading towards a fender bender as I worked at the wheel .
I did manage it , and it would n't have been too bad for me physically , but the other car was much newer and smaller and I would have probably banged it up pretty good .
  I lost power steering in my '83 Celica when a belt broke .
I was on the freeway and did n't even notice until I exited onto surface streets and could feel that it was much more difficult to turn .
In either case with a fly-by-wire type system I 'd have been in trouble .
Having a mechanical backup for a loss of power is essential .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was pretty new to driving, I was rolling down a residential street in my dad's '78 Cougar.
The engine died and the power steering went with it.
I wasn't going too fast, but I was rolling straight toward a parked car.
It took all I had to slowly pull the car into a turn.
It was a very strange sensation, slowly heading towards a fender bender as I worked at the wheel.
I did manage it, and it wouldn't have been too bad for me physically, but the other car was much newer and smaller and I would have probably banged it up pretty good.
  I lost power steering in my '83 Celica when a belt broke.
I was on the freeway and didn't even notice until I exited onto surface streets and could feel that it was much more difficult to turn.
In either case with a fly-by-wire type system I'd have been in trouble.
Having a mechanical backup for a loss of power is essential.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824477</id>
	<title>Here already?</title>
	<author>snspdaarf</author>
	<datestamp>1256145060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>From watching people drive, one would think many already have a hand on the joystick.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From watching people drive , one would think many already have a hand on the joystick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From watching people drive, one would think many already have a hand on the joystick.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29851397</id>
	<title>Re:Has been done before</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256291280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would seriously <em>love</em> to drive such a car. At least just to try it.</p><p>The implications are just mind-boggling; they could implement a whole level of computerization for traction control and steering similar to what they've done currently with the anti-lock braking systems. Plus, you wouldn't be holding your arms out in front of you... they'd be resting at your sides, with only a slight wrist motion to actually control the vehicle. I like it!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would seriously love to drive such a car .
At least just to try it.The implications are just mind-boggling ; they could implement a whole level of computerization for traction control and steering similar to what they 've done currently with the anti-lock braking systems .
Plus , you would n't be holding your arms out in front of you... they 'd be resting at your sides , with only a slight wrist motion to actually control the vehicle .
I like it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would seriously love to drive such a car.
At least just to try it.The implications are just mind-boggling; they could implement a whole level of computerization for traction control and steering similar to what they've done currently with the anti-lock braking systems.
Plus, you wouldn't be holding your arms out in front of you... they'd be resting at your sides, with only a slight wrist motion to actually control the vehicle.
I like it!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825275</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824899</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>jim\_v2000</author>
	<datestamp>1256146980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think it would be a great steering system for an electric car that has motors on both front wheels.  For that kind of car, emergency turning could be as simple as one wheel moving faster than the other, so even if conventional steering died (as in the wheels stopped angling left or right) you could still turn.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it would be a great steering system for an electric car that has motors on both front wheels .
For that kind of car , emergency turning could be as simple as one wheel moving faster than the other , so even if conventional steering died ( as in the wheels stopped angling left or right ) you could still turn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it would be a great steering system for an electric car that has motors on both front wheels.
For that kind of car, emergency turning could be as simple as one wheel moving faster than the other, so even if conventional steering died (as in the wheels stopped angling left or right) you could still turn.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824815</id>
	<title>No kidding.</title>
	<author>sean.peters</author>
	<datestamp>1256146680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, Toyota, you're planning on building a car that no one knows how to drive? Let us know how that works out for you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , Toyota , you 're planning on building a car that no one knows how to drive ?
Let us know how that works out for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, Toyota, you're planning on building a car that no one knows how to drive?
Let us know how that works out for you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824923</id>
	<title>Competitive market will speak</title>
	<author>linebackn</author>
	<datestamp>1256147100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An interesting thing, at least to me, here is how the public will accept or reject their changed around user interface. Given that there is a more or less fair and competitive market for cars it is possible and likely that people will reject this  change by not buying this kind of vehicle.</p><p>If this were a Microsoft software product everybody would be using it regardless if they like it or not. *cough*Office ribbon*cough*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An interesting thing , at least to me , here is how the public will accept or reject their changed around user interface .
Given that there is a more or less fair and competitive market for cars it is possible and likely that people will reject this change by not buying this kind of vehicle.If this were a Microsoft software product everybody would be using it regardless if they like it or not .
* cough * Office ribbon * cough *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An interesting thing, at least to me, here is how the public will accept or reject their changed around user interface.
Given that there is a more or less fair and competitive market for cars it is possible and likely that people will reject this  change by not buying this kind of vehicle.If this were a Microsoft software product everybody would be using it regardless if they like it or not.
*cough*Office ribbon*cough*</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824381</id>
	<title>Hellfire Missiles!</title>
	<author>smitty777</author>
	<datestamp>1256144580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now that we've got the joysticks out of the way, we can finally move on to more important matters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now that we 've got the joysticks out of the way , we can finally move on to more important matters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now that we've got the joysticks out of the way, we can finally move on to more important matters.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29828421</id>
	<title>Airbus A380</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1256118060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If a joystick's good enough for control of an aircraft as large as the Airbus A380, I'm sure it can be adapted to a car. If you think pilots don't have a need for accuracy or that they don't travel at high speed you're simply mistaken</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If a joystick 's good enough for control of an aircraft as large as the Airbus A380 , I 'm sure it can be adapted to a car .
If you think pilots do n't have a need for accuracy or that they do n't travel at high speed you 're simply mistaken</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a joystick's good enough for control of an aircraft as large as the Airbus A380, I'm sure it can be adapted to a car.
If you think pilots don't have a need for accuracy or that they don't travel at high speed you're simply mistaken</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824255</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825875</id>
	<title>I don't understand</title>
	<author>Bruiser80</author>
	<datestamp>1256150880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Could somebody give me a car-based analogy to this article?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Could somebody give me a car-based analogy to this article ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could somebody give me a car-based analogy to this article?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824541</id>
	<title>I dont see how this will ever catch on</title>
	<author>sargon666777</author>
	<datestamp>1256145360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't see how this can ever catch on.  If I have to control the car with my hands, how exactly am I supposed to text while driving and not paying attention to the road?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see how this can ever catch on .
If I have to control the car with my hands , how exactly am I supposed to text while driving and not paying attention to the road ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see how this can ever catch on.
If I have to control the car with my hands, how exactly am I supposed to text while driving and not paying attention to the road?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825197</id>
	<title>change drivers without stopping</title>
	<author>siriuskase</author>
	<datestamp>1256148300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The neat thing to me is that if the stick comes up between the seats (rather than between the legs), you could drive from either seat.  This would be handy on long trips where you don't want to stop simply to change drivers, or when the current driver suffers a sudden medical problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The neat thing to me is that if the stick comes up between the seats ( rather than between the legs ) , you could drive from either seat .
This would be handy on long trips where you do n't want to stop simply to change drivers , or when the current driver suffers a sudden medical problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The neat thing to me is that if the stick comes up between the seats (rather than between the legs), you could drive from either seat.
This would be handy on long trips where you don't want to stop simply to change drivers, or when the current driver suffers a sudden medical problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824747</id>
	<title>Re:Great</title>
	<author>sqldr</author>
	<datestamp>1256146380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm left handed.  I can guarantee this will be right-handed only.  You probably want to watch out for my "wrong hand" driving skills while you're at it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm left handed .
I can guarantee this will be right-handed only .
You probably want to watch out for my " wrong hand " driving skills while you 're at it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm left handed.
I can guarantee this will be right-handed only.
You probably want to watch out for my "wrong hand" driving skills while you're at it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825899</id>
	<title>Re:joystick vs k&amp;m</title>
	<author>JediTrainer</author>
	<datestamp>1256151000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wicked. Hold down ALT and now I can strafe to parallel park.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wicked .
Hold down ALT and now I can strafe to parallel park .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wicked.
Hold down ALT and now I can strafe to parallel park.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825885</id>
	<title>Re:Johnny Cab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256150940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IINM, JohnnyCab was the first vehicle ever driven by a medical hologram.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IINM , JohnnyCab was the first vehicle ever driven by a medical hologram .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IINM, JohnnyCab was the first vehicle ever driven by a medical hologram.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824215</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826261</id>
	<title>Ever play a racing sim with a joystick...?</title>
	<author>bodland</author>
	<datestamp>1256152320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I rest my case.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I rest my case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I rest my case.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827411</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256157120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As you go into a left turn, your hand wants to keep going the direction it was going, which is actually right from your frame of reference. Meaning you have to pull left harder.
It depends on what's more <i>intuitive</i> at the moment of building the system. I know that for example some robots at the <a href="http://www.udel.edu/research/media/babiesrobots.html" title="udel.edu">University of Delaware</a> [udel.edu] have some controls for babies to drive them. When you push forward the cart breaks, when you pull towards you, the car accelerates. This compensates so when you are breaking, the momentum won't cause you to accelerate again.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As you go into a left turn , your hand wants to keep going the direction it was going , which is actually right from your frame of reference .
Meaning you have to pull left harder .
It depends on what 's more intuitive at the moment of building the system .
I know that for example some robots at the University of Delaware [ udel.edu ] have some controls for babies to drive them .
When you push forward the cart breaks , when you pull towards you , the car accelerates .
This compensates so when you are breaking , the momentum wo n't cause you to accelerate again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As you go into a left turn, your hand wants to keep going the direction it was going, which is actually right from your frame of reference.
Meaning you have to pull left harder.
It depends on what's more intuitive at the moment of building the system.
I know that for example some robots at the University of Delaware [udel.edu] have some controls for babies to drive them.
When you push forward the cart breaks, when you pull towards you, the car accelerates.
This compensates so when you are breaking, the momentum won't cause you to accelerate again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824435</id>
	<title>Left vs right handed?</title>
	<author>wiredog</author>
	<datestamp>1256144820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The steering wheel is in the middle, will the joystick likewisde be in the middle, or off to one side?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The steering wheel is in the middle , will the joystick likewisde be in the middle , or off to one side ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The steering wheel is in the middle, will the joystick likewisde be in the middle, or off to one side?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826841</id>
	<title>I'd prefer all pedals</title>
	<author>bencoder</author>
	<datestamp>1256154540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about all pedal control?

Have it set up a bit like aircraft rudder pedals, except instead of toe-brakes you've got acceleration on one pedal and brake on the other, with turning by pushing them in like a rudder. Then it's hands free.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about all pedal control ?
Have it set up a bit like aircraft rudder pedals , except instead of toe-brakes you 've got acceleration on one pedal and brake on the other , with turning by pushing them in like a rudder .
Then it 's hands free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about all pedal control?
Have it set up a bit like aircraft rudder pedals, except instead of toe-brakes you've got acceleration on one pedal and brake on the other, with turning by pushing them in like a rudder.
Then it's hands free.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824857</id>
	<title>Re:I seem to remember</title>
	<author>RightwingNutjob</author>
	<datestamp>1256146860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The steering wheel in my Chevy is about 18 inches in diameter and goes two full turns in each direction to turn the front wheels through about +-/40 degrees. Driving on the highway, it's very rare to make motions more than about 1 inches in either direction. That's a max error of 1in/[(4*18*3in)/80deg] = approx 0.5 deg.
You could imagine a speed-sensitive joystick doing that for you, giving you that range over the full max range of the joystick to give you about the same precision as you get with your hand making small motions on the steering wheel.
<br>
<br>
The problem is that when you're on city streets, going between 0-30mph, you need to make both precise small corrections that correspond to fractions of an inch on a steering wheel, but occasionally at the same speeds, you need to make larger fast motions to avoid potholes, people in parked cars opening their doors, little children running out into the street, or idiots on cell phones not watching where they're going and drifting into your lane. There's no gain control algorithm that'll let you have both fine and (fast) coarse control algorithm if its only input is vehicle speed, and the joystick has a fixed range of motion.
<br> <br>
Outside of very constrained environments like factory floors and airport tarmacs, I don't think there's really a place for joystick-only control, just because the same dynamic range that you have in a multi-turn wheel just isn't there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The steering wheel in my Chevy is about 18 inches in diameter and goes two full turns in each direction to turn the front wheels through about + -/40 degrees .
Driving on the highway , it 's very rare to make motions more than about 1 inches in either direction .
That 's a max error of 1in/ [ ( 4 * 18 * 3in ) /80deg ] = approx 0.5 deg .
You could imagine a speed-sensitive joystick doing that for you , giving you that range over the full max range of the joystick to give you about the same precision as you get with your hand making small motions on the steering wheel .
The problem is that when you 're on city streets , going between 0-30mph , you need to make both precise small corrections that correspond to fractions of an inch on a steering wheel , but occasionally at the same speeds , you need to make larger fast motions to avoid potholes , people in parked cars opening their doors , little children running out into the street , or idiots on cell phones not watching where they 're going and drifting into your lane .
There 's no gain control algorithm that 'll let you have both fine and ( fast ) coarse control algorithm if its only input is vehicle speed , and the joystick has a fixed range of motion .
Outside of very constrained environments like factory floors and airport tarmacs , I do n't think there 's really a place for joystick-only control , just because the same dynamic range that you have in a multi-turn wheel just is n't there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The steering wheel in my Chevy is about 18 inches in diameter and goes two full turns in each direction to turn the front wheels through about +-/40 degrees.
Driving on the highway, it's very rare to make motions more than about 1 inches in either direction.
That's a max error of 1in/[(4*18*3in)/80deg] = approx 0.5 deg.
You could imagine a speed-sensitive joystick doing that for you, giving you that range over the full max range of the joystick to give you about the same precision as you get with your hand making small motions on the steering wheel.
The problem is that when you're on city streets, going between 0-30mph, you need to make both precise small corrections that correspond to fractions of an inch on a steering wheel, but occasionally at the same speeds, you need to make larger fast motions to avoid potholes, people in parked cars opening their doors, little children running out into the street, or idiots on cell phones not watching where they're going and drifting into your lane.
There's no gain control algorithm that'll let you have both fine and (fast) coarse control algorithm if its only input is vehicle speed, and the joystick has a fixed range of motion.
Outside of very constrained environments like factory floors and airport tarmacs, I don't think there's really a place for joystick-only control, just because the same dynamic range that you have in a multi-turn wheel just isn't there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824309</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824689</id>
	<title>PRNDL is dead</title>
	<author>nightsweat</author>
	<datestamp>1256146140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>All new cars with come with WASD navigation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All new cars with come with WASD navigation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All new cars with come with WASD navigation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824503</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>0100010001010011</author>
	<datestamp>1256145180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even worse is that the dynamics of a vehicle can make joystick control even worse. When you're just on a computer there is no angular acceleration of your body so its relatively simple.</p><p>As you go into a left turn, your hand wants to keep going the direction it was going, which is actually right from your frame of reference. Meaning you have to pull left harder.</p><p>Except that pull isn't the same for all speeds. Either they're going to have to dial down the controls for at speed or you're going to have a few people that get it up to 60 mph try to take a turn and over shoot their intended position....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even worse is that the dynamics of a vehicle can make joystick control even worse .
When you 're just on a computer there is no angular acceleration of your body so its relatively simple.As you go into a left turn , your hand wants to keep going the direction it was going , which is actually right from your frame of reference .
Meaning you have to pull left harder.Except that pull is n't the same for all speeds .
Either they 're going to have to dial down the controls for at speed or you 're going to have a few people that get it up to 60 mph try to take a turn and over shoot their intended position... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even worse is that the dynamics of a vehicle can make joystick control even worse.
When you're just on a computer there is no angular acceleration of your body so its relatively simple.As you go into a left turn, your hand wants to keep going the direction it was going, which is actually right from your frame of reference.
Meaning you have to pull left harder.Except that pull isn't the same for all speeds.
Either they're going to have to dial down the controls for at speed or you're going to have a few people that get it up to 60 mph try to take a turn and over shoot their intended position....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824225</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826387</id>
	<title>Re:change drivers without stopping</title>
	<author>hort\_wort</author>
	<datestamp>1256152740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But that makes it precarious for if you're one of those drivers who likes to benefit from a girlfriend next to you on a long trip.  Take that however you want.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But that makes it precarious for if you 're one of those drivers who likes to benefit from a girlfriend next to you on a long trip .
Take that however you want .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But that makes it precarious for if you're one of those drivers who likes to benefit from a girlfriend next to you on a long trip.
Take that however you want.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825197</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29839485</id>
	<title>Re:Numerous issues involved with the joystick cont</title>
	<author>HTH NE1</author>
	<datestamp>1256202480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FYI, it's "pe<b>d</b>als". You're not stepping on flowers.</p><p>Also, momentum helps with the pedal option: it encourages more braking and less acceleration. A joystick where pushing forward is acceleration and pulling back is braking uses your momentum against your desires both ways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FYI , it 's " pedals " .
You 're not stepping on flowers.Also , momentum helps with the pedal option : it encourages more braking and less acceleration .
A joystick where pushing forward is acceleration and pulling back is braking uses your momentum against your desires both ways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FYI, it's "pedals".
You're not stepping on flowers.Also, momentum helps with the pedal option: it encourages more braking and less acceleration.
A joystick where pushing forward is acceleration and pulling back is braking uses your momentum against your desires both ways.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826285</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825131</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>The Grim Reefer2</author>
	<datestamp>1256147940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Modern cars, sadly, have little of the feedback of old.</p></div><p>I'm not sure what your definition of old is, but it's obvious you never drove a 1970's era Chrysler vehicle w/ power steering.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Modern cars , sadly , have little of the feedback of old.I 'm not sure what your definition of old is , but it 's obvious you never drove a 1970 's era Chrysler vehicle w/ power steering .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Modern cars, sadly, have little of the feedback of old.I'm not sure what your definition of old is, but it's obvious you never drove a 1970's era Chrysler vehicle w/ power steering.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29829199</id>
	<title>Re:change drivers without stopping</title>
	<author>kybur</author>
	<datestamp>1256121900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about motorcycle like steering connected to a Beechcraft Bonanza style "throw over" column, so the  wheel can be quickly transferred from one driver to the other with out loosing the advantageous feel of a standard steering device.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about motorcycle like steering connected to a Beechcraft Bonanza style " throw over " column , so the wheel can be quickly transferred from one driver to the other with out loosing the advantageous feel of a standard steering device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about motorcycle like steering connected to a Beechcraft Bonanza style "throw over" column, so the  wheel can be quickly transferred from one driver to the other with out loosing the advantageous feel of a standard steering device.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825197</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825665</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>stoolpigeon</author>
	<datestamp>1256150040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really.  Why would I lie?</p><p>A car designed without power steering, is easier to steer without power than a car with power steering that has lost said power.</p><p>I drove a '69 Chevy pickup for quite a while, that didn't have power steering and wasn't too bad except as you mention, when parking.</p><p>And the Cougar was o.k. if moving along at a decent speed too.  The reason this was tough was that I was going pretty slowly - under 10 mph.</p><p>But the real point - is that there needs to be a system that allows for steering with a loss of power.  I'm guessing a true fly-by-wire system means that when the power goes - all steering goes with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really .
Why would I lie ? A car designed without power steering , is easier to steer without power than a car with power steering that has lost said power.I drove a '69 Chevy pickup for quite a while , that did n't have power steering and was n't too bad except as you mention , when parking.And the Cougar was o.k .
if moving along at a decent speed too .
The reason this was tough was that I was going pretty slowly - under 10 mph.But the real point - is that there needs to be a system that allows for steering with a loss of power .
I 'm guessing a true fly-by-wire system means that when the power goes - all steering goes with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really.
Why would I lie?A car designed without power steering, is easier to steer without power than a car with power steering that has lost said power.I drove a '69 Chevy pickup for quite a while, that didn't have power steering and wasn't too bad except as you mention, when parking.And the Cougar was o.k.
if moving along at a decent speed too.
The reason this was tough was that I was going pretty slowly - under 10 mph.But the real point - is that there needs to be a system that allows for steering with a loss of power.
I'm guessing a true fly-by-wire system means that when the power goes - all steering goes with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29831385</id>
	<title>Accidents.</title>
	<author>shadowblaster</author>
	<datestamp>1256139780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine how many people will end up being impaled by these things in accdients.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine how many people will end up being impaled by these things in accdients .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine how many people will end up being impaled by these things in accdients.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825301</id>
	<title>Re:Feel free to ignore</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256148840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>For one, its not currently legal in America.</p></div><p>[Citation Needed]</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Slam on your brakes next time you drive, see which way your hand moves.</p></div><p>Easy to solve. Make pushing forward apply brakes and pulling back increase the throttle. That's how boats and airplanes work already. I'm surprised you didn't think of it.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>THREE, if its NOT BROKE. Do NOT fix it.</p></div><p>I want very much to make a joke about "fixing" the perfectly good rules of grammar so that can periods go where commas belong, but instead I'll just say I pretty much have to agree with you here. It would be more of a novelty, although it could possibly be useful technology to help people who can't use their legs (all-hand controls already exist, but this would be an improvement on them)... which partially addresses point four as well.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>For one , its not currently legal in America .
[ Citation Needed ] Slam on your brakes next time you drive , see which way your hand moves.Easy to solve .
Make pushing forward apply brakes and pulling back increase the throttle .
That 's how boats and airplanes work already .
I 'm surprised you did n't think of it.THREE , if its NOT BROKE .
Do NOT fix it.I want very much to make a joke about " fixing " the perfectly good rules of grammar so that can periods go where commas belong , but instead I 'll just say I pretty much have to agree with you here .
It would be more of a novelty , although it could possibly be useful technology to help people who ca n't use their legs ( all-hand controls already exist , but this would be an improvement on them ) ... which partially addresses point four as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For one, its not currently legal in America.
[Citation Needed]Slam on your brakes next time you drive, see which way your hand moves.Easy to solve.
Make pushing forward apply brakes and pulling back increase the throttle.
That's how boats and airplanes work already.
I'm surprised you didn't think of it.THREE, if its NOT BROKE.
Do NOT fix it.I want very much to make a joke about "fixing" the perfectly good rules of grammar so that can periods go where commas belong, but instead I'll just say I pretty much have to agree with you here.
It would be more of a novelty, although it could possibly be useful technology to help people who can't use their legs (all-hand controls already exist, but this would be an improvement on them)... which partially addresses point four as well.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825997</id>
	<title>Re:Old news - Saab tried this in the 80s</title>
	<author>caseih</author>
	<datestamp>1256151360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's not what I remember.  I remember that it was very accurate and very quick.  It was easy to safely swerve around around a pylon safely, for example.  Much more so than a wheel.  Ultimately a stick would highly benefit from a variable ratio.   The faster you go, the more reduced the ratio is.  Or if you move the stick hard and fast, the ratio temporarily increases or something.  With such a system, subtle maneuvers should be easy and accurate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's not what I remember .
I remember that it was very accurate and very quick .
It was easy to safely swerve around around a pylon safely , for example .
Much more so than a wheel .
Ultimately a stick would highly benefit from a variable ratio .
The faster you go , the more reduced the ratio is .
Or if you move the stick hard and fast , the ratio temporarily increases or something .
With such a system , subtle maneuvers should be easy and accurate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's not what I remember.
I remember that it was very accurate and very quick.
It was easy to safely swerve around around a pylon safely, for example.
Much more so than a wheel.
Ultimately a stick would highly benefit from a variable ratio.
The faster you go, the more reduced the ratio is.
Or if you move the stick hard and fast, the ratio temporarily increases or something.
With such a system, subtle maneuvers should be easy and accurate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824255</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824613</id>
	<title>Shame it can't happen (yet)</title>
	<author>Bertie</author>
	<datestamp>1256145780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mercedes have had working prototypes of steering-wheel-less cars for a heck of a long time now, but they can't bring them to market because European safety laws require a physical connection between steering wheel and steered wheels.  For obvious reasons - if your fancy fly-by-wire joystick suddenly stops working, you are in deep doo-doo.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mercedes have had working prototypes of steering-wheel-less cars for a heck of a long time now , but they ca n't bring them to market because European safety laws require a physical connection between steering wheel and steered wheels .
For obvious reasons - if your fancy fly-by-wire joystick suddenly stops working , you are in deep doo-doo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mercedes have had working prototypes of steering-wheel-less cars for a heck of a long time now, but they can't bring them to market because European safety laws require a physical connection between steering wheel and steered wheels.
For obvious reasons - if your fancy fly-by-wire joystick suddenly stops working, you are in deep doo-doo.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29829285</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256122320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not a concern for Toyota, they stopped providing steering feedback years ago when they switched to full-electric assist mush steering in addition to overly cushioned suspension.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not a concern for Toyota , they stopped providing steering feedback years ago when they switched to full-electric assist mush steering in addition to overly cushioned suspension .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not a concern for Toyota, they stopped providing steering feedback years ago when they switched to full-electric assist mush steering in addition to overly cushioned suspension.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824225</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824307</id>
	<title>Special license needed?</title>
	<author>wvmarle</author>
	<datestamp>1256144280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Very non-standard controls... the reason I can jump in basically any car and drive it is because the operations are mostly standardised. Left pedal clutch, middle break, right accelerator, steering wheel is obvious, indicators is the stick on the right. Lights etc trial-and-error mostly. Trucks, buses - well anything that hits the road and has more than two wheels pretty much works like that.
</p><p>This is so different, will we need special licenses/training for it? How about force-feedback, for example? I know it's experimental but still makes you wonder how about using it on the road.
</p><p>And safety. For such a super-compact car. Crumple zones don't compact well - maybe I should state that different. They need space to crumple in. Something like that. And that is space OUTSIDE the passenger compartment of course.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Very non-standard controls... the reason I can jump in basically any car and drive it is because the operations are mostly standardised .
Left pedal clutch , middle break , right accelerator , steering wheel is obvious , indicators is the stick on the right .
Lights etc trial-and-error mostly .
Trucks , buses - well anything that hits the road and has more than two wheels pretty much works like that .
This is so different , will we need special licenses/training for it ?
How about force-feedback , for example ?
I know it 's experimental but still makes you wonder how about using it on the road .
And safety .
For such a super-compact car .
Crumple zones do n't compact well - maybe I should state that different .
They need space to crumple in .
Something like that .
And that is space OUTSIDE the passenger compartment of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very non-standard controls... the reason I can jump in basically any car and drive it is because the operations are mostly standardised.
Left pedal clutch, middle break, right accelerator, steering wheel is obvious, indicators is the stick on the right.
Lights etc trial-and-error mostly.
Trucks, buses - well anything that hits the road and has more than two wheels pretty much works like that.
This is so different, will we need special licenses/training for it?
How about force-feedback, for example?
I know it's experimental but still makes you wonder how about using it on the road.
And safety.
For such a super-compact car.
Crumple zones don't compact well - maybe I should state that different.
They need space to crumple in.
Something like that.
And that is space OUTSIDE the passenger compartment of course.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824215</id>
	<title>Johnny Cab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256143860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have a hellava day!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have a hellava day !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have a hellava day!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29836177</id>
	<title>Re:joystick vs k&amp;m</title>
	<author>vuffi\_raa</author>
	<datestamp>1256230740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What, no keyboard + mouse option?</p><p>-l</p></div><p>you don't need a mouse- W+A+S+D+spacebar+ctrl, gears are fkeys, in addition you can hook it to your phone and text while driving</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What , no keyboard + mouse option ? -lyou do n't need a mouse- W + A + S + D + spacebar + ctrl , gears are fkeys , in addition you can hook it to your phone and text while driving</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What, no keyboard + mouse option?-lyou don't need a mouse- W+A+S+D+spacebar+ctrl, gears are fkeys, in addition you can hook it to your phone and text while driving
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824295</id>
	<title>reversed controls?</title>
	<author>meow27</author>
	<datestamp>1256144220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>will there be interchangeable control options?<br>will the controls have reverse controls or plain?<br><br>will there be some nifty fire buttons?<br><br>spy hunter looks so much more realistic now.<br><br>now im waiting for a car that is controlled by a keyboard. that would be awsome</htmltext>
<tokenext>will there be interchangeable control options ? will the controls have reverse controls or plain ? will there be some nifty fire buttons ? spy hunter looks so much more realistic now.now im waiting for a car that is controlled by a keyboard .
that would be awsome</tokentext>
<sentencetext>will there be interchangeable control options?will the controls have reverse controls or plain?will there be some nifty fire buttons?spy hunter looks so much more realistic now.now im waiting for a car that is controlled by a keyboard.
that would be awsome</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29829181</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>drtsystems</author>
	<datestamp>1256121780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't forget that older cars had wayyyy worse braking and handling.  And try driving a BMW or for cheaper, a Mazda.  Sure a toyota feels like driving a couch.  But then again thats how its supposed to feel, and when driving within normal limits a toyota feels amazingly safe and comfortable.  Although I agree taking a grandpamobile to its limit is scary, even if that limit is the same limit as a better handling car.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget that older cars had wayyyy worse braking and handling .
And try driving a BMW or for cheaper , a Mazda .
Sure a toyota feels like driving a couch .
But then again thats how its supposed to feel , and when driving within normal limits a toyota feels amazingly safe and comfortable .
Although I agree taking a grandpamobile to its limit is scary , even if that limit is the same limit as a better handling car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget that older cars had wayyyy worse braking and handling.
And try driving a BMW or for cheaper, a Mazda.
Sure a toyota feels like driving a couch.
But then again thats how its supposed to feel, and when driving within normal limits a toyota feels amazingly safe and comfortable.
Although I agree taking a grandpamobile to its limit is scary, even if that limit is the same limit as a better handling car.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824785</id>
	<title>Re:joystick vs k&amp;m</title>
	<author>voodoowizard</author>
	<datestamp>1256146560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Everyone knows a good Logitech G27 wheel will be the best upgrade option, force feedback FTW</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone knows a good Logitech G27 wheel will be the best upgrade option , force feedback FTW</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone knows a good Logitech G27 wheel will be the best upgrade option, force feedback FTW</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826913</id>
	<title>Re:reversed controls?</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256154780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>now im waiting for a car that is controlled by a keyboard. that would be awsome</i></p><p>You're a nerd, design and build one!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>now im waiting for a car that is controlled by a keyboard .
that would be awsomeYou 're a nerd , design and build one !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>now im waiting for a car that is controlled by a keyboard.
that would be awsomeYou're a nerd, design and build one!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824295</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825071</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256147760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1) It's not impossible to rig it so it is hooked up. Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean its impossible - drive shaft has gears, just as the first system I thought of with this car has gears.<br>2) A person's brain will get used to it very quickly. A wheel isn't perfectly intuitive, and a joystick is not unfathomable. Just because we are in a rut doesn't mean we can't learn new ways of doing things.<br>3) You guarantee? Thanks, that strengthens your arguments - how about let's not devise arguments around experience and rather use logic. After some good working out I'm sure we will be just as fine playing with a joystick as playing with the wheel. And why do you think only one hand will control? Screw southpaws? Center joystick, or configurable, or whatever. Lots of ways to solve that problem.<br>4) Go on, I'm sure you can provide good reasons, just that your current reasons are lame.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) It 's not impossible to rig it so it is hooked up .
Just because you ca n't imagine it does n't mean its impossible - drive shaft has gears , just as the first system I thought of with this car has gears.2 ) A person 's brain will get used to it very quickly .
A wheel is n't perfectly intuitive , and a joystick is not unfathomable .
Just because we are in a rut does n't mean we ca n't learn new ways of doing things.3 ) You guarantee ?
Thanks , that strengthens your arguments - how about let 's not devise arguments around experience and rather use logic .
After some good working out I 'm sure we will be just as fine playing with a joystick as playing with the wheel .
And why do you think only one hand will control ?
Screw southpaws ?
Center joystick , or configurable , or whatever .
Lots of ways to solve that problem.4 ) Go on , I 'm sure you can provide good reasons , just that your current reasons are lame .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) It's not impossible to rig it so it is hooked up.
Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean its impossible - drive shaft has gears, just as the first system I thought of with this car has gears.2) A person's brain will get used to it very quickly.
A wheel isn't perfectly intuitive, and a joystick is not unfathomable.
Just because we are in a rut doesn't mean we can't learn new ways of doing things.3) You guarantee?
Thanks, that strengthens your arguments - how about let's not devise arguments around experience and rather use logic.
After some good working out I'm sure we will be just as fine playing with a joystick as playing with the wheel.
And why do you think only one hand will control?
Screw southpaws?
Center joystick, or configurable, or whatever.
Lots of ways to solve that problem.4) Go on, I'm sure you can provide good reasons, just that your current reasons are lame.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827013</id>
	<title>Re:I can just see it</title>
	<author>Kernel Kludge</author>
	<datestamp>1256155380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Apparently some cars already have stick controls, how have they handled these issues? Or is it assumed that handicapped drivers aren't likely to drive to such extremes?</p></div><p>A friend of mine drives his 928 is PCA club races. He uses levers to actuate the brake and throttle. He uses a wheel to control the steering.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently some cars already have stick controls , how have they handled these issues ?
Or is it assumed that handicapped drivers are n't likely to drive to such extremes ? A friend of mine drives his 928 is PCA club races .
He uses levers to actuate the brake and throttle .
He uses a wheel to control the steering .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently some cars already have stick controls, how have they handled these issues?
Or is it assumed that handicapped drivers aren't likely to drive to such extremes?A friend of mine drives his 928 is PCA club races.
He uses levers to actuate the brake and throttle.
He uses a wheel to control the steering.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825719</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>stoolpigeon</author>
	<datestamp>1256150220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I ever have access to time travel - I will add this to my list of things to tell myself.  Because I did try the regular brakes but they were not doing me much good for the same reason steering wasn't easy.<br>
&nbsp; <br>It wont be at the top of the list, but it will be on there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I ever have access to time travel - I will add this to my list of things to tell myself .
Because I did try the regular brakes but they were not doing me much good for the same reason steering was n't easy .
  It wont be at the top of the list , but it will be on there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I ever have access to time travel - I will add this to my list of things to tell myself.
Because I did try the regular brakes but they were not doing me much good for the same reason steering wasn't easy.
  It wont be at the top of the list, but it will be on there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29828519</id>
	<title>Yes there is: r/c planes exponential</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1256118540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>There's no gain control algorithm that'll let you have both fine and (fast) coarse control algorithm if its only input is vehicle speed, and the joystick has a fixed range of motion. </i></p><p>Clearly you don't fly remote control planes. On a modern r/c plane with most modern r/c radios, you get the option of setting up something called exponential (exp for short). Basically you create a curve such that small movements near the center result in small changs whereas larger movements towards the extremes produce much larger changes. If you're a sloppy pilot or have trouble with keeping your hands steady (for example due to a medical condition) the other thing you can do is program in a dead zone.</p><p>The results with expo are quite good and r/c pilots spend time setting it up to taste. Most find around 30\% expo makes it easy to make small corrections while flying but if you really need an extreme movement, all you have to do is max out the stick which is quite intuitive.</p><p>All that said the center console is the wrong place for the joystick. The joystick should be well away from passengers. I think a side stick is the way to go.</p><p>People forget that all aircraft use joysticks and that flying aircraft requires MORE precision than driving cars.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no gain control algorithm that 'll let you have both fine and ( fast ) coarse control algorithm if its only input is vehicle speed , and the joystick has a fixed range of motion .
Clearly you do n't fly remote control planes .
On a modern r/c plane with most modern r/c radios , you get the option of setting up something called exponential ( exp for short ) .
Basically you create a curve such that small movements near the center result in small changs whereas larger movements towards the extremes produce much larger changes .
If you 're a sloppy pilot or have trouble with keeping your hands steady ( for example due to a medical condition ) the other thing you can do is program in a dead zone.The results with expo are quite good and r/c pilots spend time setting it up to taste .
Most find around 30 \ % expo makes it easy to make small corrections while flying but if you really need an extreme movement , all you have to do is max out the stick which is quite intuitive.All that said the center console is the wrong place for the joystick .
The joystick should be well away from passengers .
I think a side stick is the way to go.People forget that all aircraft use joysticks and that flying aircraft requires MORE precision than driving cars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no gain control algorithm that'll let you have both fine and (fast) coarse control algorithm if its only input is vehicle speed, and the joystick has a fixed range of motion.
Clearly you don't fly remote control planes.
On a modern r/c plane with most modern r/c radios, you get the option of setting up something called exponential (exp for short).
Basically you create a curve such that small movements near the center result in small changs whereas larger movements towards the extremes produce much larger changes.
If you're a sloppy pilot or have trouble with keeping your hands steady (for example due to a medical condition) the other thing you can do is program in a dead zone.The results with expo are quite good and r/c pilots spend time setting it up to taste.
Most find around 30\% expo makes it easy to make small corrections while flying but if you really need an extreme movement, all you have to do is max out the stick which is quite intuitive.All that said the center console is the wrong place for the joystick.
The joystick should be well away from passengers.
I think a side stick is the way to go.People forget that all aircraft use joysticks and that flying aircraft requires MORE precision than driving cars.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824857</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825683</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>PitaBred</author>
	<datestamp>1256150100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And either way, a commercial aircraft gets a LOT more regular maintenance than a passenger car. They replace things before they fail, not after, which is a HUGE difference.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And either way , a commercial aircraft gets a LOT more regular maintenance than a passenger car .
They replace things before they fail , not after , which is a HUGE difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And either way, a commercial aircraft gets a LOT more regular maintenance than a passenger car.
They replace things before they fail, not after, which is a HUGE difference.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824505</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824885</id>
	<title>Re:Great</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1256146980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Gamers turning 16 or 18 depending on country have been using a joystick for years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gamers turning 16 or 18 depending on country have been using a joystick for years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gamers turning 16 or 18 depending on country have been using a joystick for years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29828885</id>
	<title>Re:Great</title>
	<author>FrankieBaby1986</author>
	<datestamp>1256120400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Interestingly, a joystick will likely make driving easier, and possibly safer. There will be less fatigue in the arms ('gorrilla arm') from having your arms in a raised position. There will likely only be need for one arm and hand to drive, leaving one free for radio, cell phone and other things people despite the risks. Airbags may even be safer, as the driver won't have their arms in front of them, but likely down by their sides.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Interestingly , a joystick will likely make driving easier , and possibly safer .
There will be less fatigue in the arms ( 'gorrilla arm ' ) from having your arms in a raised position .
There will likely only be need for one arm and hand to drive , leaving one free for radio , cell phone and other things people despite the risks .
Airbags may even be safer , as the driver wo n't have their arms in front of them , but likely down by their sides .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interestingly, a joystick will likely make driving easier, and possibly safer.
There will be less fatigue in the arms ('gorrilla arm') from having your arms in a raised position.
There will likely only be need for one arm and hand to drive, leaving one free for radio, cell phone and other things people despite the risks.
Airbags may even be safer, as the driver won't have their arms in front of them, but likely down by their sides.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824553</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826253</id>
	<title>Re:Great</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256152320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm guessing you're better with your right hand than most right-handers are with their lefts. Am I correct?</p><p>That said, the left hand is used frequently in video games to control the motion, so I don't think learning to use your off hand will be that difficult. I already learned to drive a Mario Kart using my left thumb on the Wii.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm guessing you 're better with your right hand than most right-handers are with their lefts .
Am I correct ? That said , the left hand is used frequently in video games to control the motion , so I do n't think learning to use your off hand will be that difficult .
I already learned to drive a Mario Kart using my left thumb on the Wii .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm guessing you're better with your right hand than most right-handers are with their lefts.
Am I correct?That said, the left hand is used frequently in video games to control the motion, so I don't think learning to use your off hand will be that difficult.
I already learned to drive a Mario Kart using my left thumb on the Wii.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824747</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824233</id>
	<title>Great</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256143980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Great...because people aren't crappy enough drivers with an interface that they understand and have been using for decades.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Great...because people are n't crappy enough drivers with an interface that they understand and have been using for decades .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great...because people aren't crappy enough drivers with an interface that they understand and have been using for decades.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824247</id>
	<title>Sounds logical...</title>
	<author>Heem</author>
	<datestamp>1256143980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I always wondered when we'd finally switch from the same ol' method of controlling a car we've been using... well for the most part from the beginning of cars.</p><p>I'm sure someone with the time to do it and some minor mechanical and electrical skills could make a modification to a car to function this way. Would be a fun project I think.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I always wondered when we 'd finally switch from the same ol ' method of controlling a car we 've been using... well for the most part from the beginning of cars.I 'm sure someone with the time to do it and some minor mechanical and electrical skills could make a modification to a car to function this way .
Would be a fun project I think .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I always wondered when we'd finally switch from the same ol' method of controlling a car we've been using... well for the most part from the beginning of cars.I'm sure someone with the time to do it and some minor mechanical and electrical skills could make a modification to a car to function this way.
Would be a fun project I think.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824895</id>
	<title>Re:joystick vs k&amp;m</title>
	<author>diesel66</author>
	<datestamp>1256146980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only other option was a X-Box 360 controller.</p><p>(BTW: I recall seeing a joystick controlled concept car at EPCOT Center at least 20 years ago in (I think) the GM pavilion.  I wonder how that's doing these days...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only other option was a X-Box 360 controller .
( BTW : I recall seeing a joystick controlled concept car at EPCOT Center at least 20 years ago in ( I think ) the GM pavilion .
I wonder how that 's doing these days... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only other option was a X-Box 360 controller.
(BTW: I recall seeing a joystick controlled concept car at EPCOT Center at least 20 years ago in (I think) the GM pavilion.
I wonder how that's doing these days...)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825459</id>
	<title>Finally!</title>
	<author>FiloEleven</author>
	<datestamp>1256149320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was getting tired of buying wheel/pedal add-ons for all my racing games.  I'm glad to see they're starting to standardize.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was getting tired of buying wheel/pedal add-ons for all my racing games .
I 'm glad to see they 're starting to standardize .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was getting tired of buying wheel/pedal add-ons for all my racing games.
I'm glad to see they're starting to standardize.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825105</id>
	<title>I can't believe the naysayers</title>
	<author>ColdBoot</author>
	<datestamp>1256147880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is unbelievable the arguments against this.  Fighter aircraft have been controlled by joysticks for years.  The argument concerning power steering failure is plain BS.  I'm now 56 and I have experienced power steering failure once in my life and the car let me know it was coming well ahead of the actual failure.  MTBF is very high and not an issue.</p><p>This is way overdue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is unbelievable the arguments against this .
Fighter aircraft have been controlled by joysticks for years .
The argument concerning power steering failure is plain BS .
I 'm now 56 and I have experienced power steering failure once in my life and the car let me know it was coming well ahead of the actual failure .
MTBF is very high and not an issue.This is way overdue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is unbelievable the arguments against this.
Fighter aircraft have been controlled by joysticks for years.
The argument concerning power steering failure is plain BS.
I'm now 56 and I have experienced power steering failure once in my life and the car let me know it was coming well ahead of the actual failure.
MTBF is very high and not an issue.This is way overdue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826423</id>
	<title>Queue lawsuits in 3..2..1..</title>
	<author>w0mprat</author>
	<datestamp>1256152860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We all have seen the classic shop window accident, you know the one, driver puts the foot on the wrong pedal manoevouring in a car park, and modern automatic gearbox vehicles will take the command as maximum acceleration required. Thus the SUV ploughs through a shop window and halfway into the store. (How this doesn't generate lawsuits against the auto industry I don't know, I don't live in USA).
<br> <br>
The danger of highly automated automobiles where minimal input is needed for acceleration is obvious. The danger of vehicles with hand operated throttles and automatic transmission is higher still. This is why automatic gearboxes on motorbikes haven't really taken off. This occured to me when I stepped off my motor scooter, leaving it in gear, and twisted the throttle as I was holding the handle bar. The big surged forward, this lead me to grip tighter, thus the bike shot off into the side of a car.
<br> <br>
A joystick you can just lean on in a full size car? No thanks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We all have seen the classic shop window accident , you know the one , driver puts the foot on the wrong pedal manoevouring in a car park , and modern automatic gearbox vehicles will take the command as maximum acceleration required .
Thus the SUV ploughs through a shop window and halfway into the store .
( How this does n't generate lawsuits against the auto industry I do n't know , I do n't live in USA ) .
The danger of highly automated automobiles where minimal input is needed for acceleration is obvious .
The danger of vehicles with hand operated throttles and automatic transmission is higher still .
This is why automatic gearboxes on motorbikes have n't really taken off .
This occured to me when I stepped off my motor scooter , leaving it in gear , and twisted the throttle as I was holding the handle bar .
The big surged forward , this lead me to grip tighter , thus the bike shot off into the side of a car .
A joystick you can just lean on in a full size car ?
No thanks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We all have seen the classic shop window accident, you know the one, driver puts the foot on the wrong pedal manoevouring in a car park, and modern automatic gearbox vehicles will take the command as maximum acceleration required.
Thus the SUV ploughs through a shop window and halfway into the store.
(How this doesn't generate lawsuits against the auto industry I don't know, I don't live in USA).
The danger of highly automated automobiles where minimal input is needed for acceleration is obvious.
The danger of vehicles with hand operated throttles and automatic transmission is higher still.
This is why automatic gearboxes on motorbikes haven't really taken off.
This occured to me when I stepped off my motor scooter, leaving it in gear, and twisted the throttle as I was holding the handle bar.
The big surged forward, this lead me to grip tighter, thus the bike shot off into the side of a car.
A joystick you can just lean on in a full size car?
No thanks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825785</id>
	<title>Re:change drivers without stopping</title>
	<author>cephus</author>
	<datestamp>1256150460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK.   So when you get stopped for speeding, how does the cop know who gets the ticket?    Or who gets busted for the stolen car or the drugs in the center console - normally its the driver, but now<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK. So when you get stopped for speeding , how does the cop know who gets the ticket ?
Or who gets busted for the stolen car or the drugs in the center console - normally its the driver , but now .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK.   So when you get stopped for speeding, how does the cop know who gets the ticket?
Or who gets busted for the stolen car or the drugs in the center console - normally its the driver, but now ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825197</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824933</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>ArbitraryDescriptor</author>
	<datestamp>1256147160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>5) Cannot steer with knee while eating breakfast burrito and twittering that I am eating a breakfast burrito.</htmltext>
<tokenext>5 ) Can not steer with knee while eating breakfast burrito and twittering that I am eating a breakfast burrito .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>5) Cannot steer with knee while eating breakfast burrito and twittering that I am eating a breakfast burrito.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824811</id>
	<title>To the naysayers, heres my thoughts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256146680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Power Steering:  Its drive by wire, an electric car... This isnt your dad oldsmobile with an adapter kit..  we don't know that its hydraulic power steering, it could be all elctronic...</p><p>Fatigue:  I don't get tired after running a skid-steer or backhoe all day, they are controlled by joysticks.. and are more complex than car controlls</p><p>Feedback: Boohoo, its drive by wire, let the computer handle its own feedback... this could eliminate bumpsteer, which is more dangerous if the driver tries to compensate for it.</p><p>Learning Curve:  Its a prototype, and isnt on the road yet, the aim of the project is to make the car easier to drive, not harder.. let the computer decide how fast to take the corners, how fast to accelerate, and when to coast/brake... thats the idea behind innovation, TO INNOVATE, not to stay the same, but add a blutooth iPod connector with a clock built in</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Power Steering : Its drive by wire , an electric car... This isnt your dad oldsmobile with an adapter kit.. we do n't know that its hydraulic power steering , it could be all elctronic...Fatigue : I do n't get tired after running a skid-steer or backhoe all day , they are controlled by joysticks.. and are more complex than car controllsFeedback : Boohoo , its drive by wire , let the computer handle its own feedback... this could eliminate bumpsteer , which is more dangerous if the driver tries to compensate for it.Learning Curve : Its a prototype , and isnt on the road yet , the aim of the project is to make the car easier to drive , not harder.. let the computer decide how fast to take the corners , how fast to accelerate , and when to coast/brake... thats the idea behind innovation , TO INNOVATE , not to stay the same , but add a blutooth iPod connector with a clock built in</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Power Steering:  Its drive by wire, an electric car... This isnt your dad oldsmobile with an adapter kit..  we don't know that its hydraulic power steering, it could be all elctronic...Fatigue:  I don't get tired after running a skid-steer or backhoe all day, they are controlled by joysticks.. and are more complex than car controllsFeedback: Boohoo, its drive by wire, let the computer handle its own feedback... this could eliminate bumpsteer, which is more dangerous if the driver tries to compensate for it.Learning Curve:  Its a prototype, and isnt on the road yet, the aim of the project is to make the car easier to drive, not harder.. let the computer decide how fast to take the corners, how fast to accelerate, and when to coast/brake... thats the idea behind innovation, TO INNOVATE, not to stay the same, but add a blutooth iPod connector with a clock built in</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824509</id>
	<title>I can just see it</title>
	<author>overshoot</author>
	<datestamp>1256145240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>when the kid, puppy, cat, or even coffee do something unexpected.<p>

A yoke is just plain more stable than a stick.  The latter is great for quick input of large control motions, but has more drawbacks than advantages where the objective is smooth and precise results with minimal interference.</p><p>

For all of the "fighter jock" fantasies, drivers are a lot more like jumbo jet jockeys.  That includes race drivers -- or don't you think that someone would have put this to use on the F1 circuit already if it was actually better?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>when the kid , puppy , cat , or even coffee do something unexpected .
A yoke is just plain more stable than a stick .
The latter is great for quick input of large control motions , but has more drawbacks than advantages where the objective is smooth and precise results with minimal interference .
For all of the " fighter jock " fantasies , drivers are a lot more like jumbo jet jockeys .
That includes race drivers -- or do n't you think that someone would have put this to use on the F1 circuit already if it was actually better ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>when the kid, puppy, cat, or even coffee do something unexpected.
A yoke is just plain more stable than a stick.
The latter is great for quick input of large control motions, but has more drawbacks than advantages where the objective is smooth and precise results with minimal interference.
For all of the "fighter jock" fantasies, drivers are a lot more like jumbo jet jockeys.
That includes race drivers -- or don't you think that someone would have put this to use on the F1 circuit already if it was actually better?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29840935</id>
	<title>Re:Johnny Cab</title>
	<author>BlackSnake112</author>
	<datestamp>1256210640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The movie is called Total Recall. Johnny cab was not a hologram. Android, more like the top half of an android. He did not have legs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The movie is called Total Recall .
Johnny cab was not a hologram .
Android , more like the top half of an android .
He did not have legs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The movie is called Total Recall.
Johnny cab was not a hologram.
Android, more like the top half of an android.
He did not have legs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825885</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827585</id>
	<title>Re:Feel free to ignore</title>
	<author>GuldKalle</author>
	<datestamp>1256157900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Easy solution: invert the axis. I.e. Pull back to increase power, forward to slow down/brake?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Easy solution : invert the axis .
I.e. Pull back to increase power , forward to slow down/brake ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Easy solution: invert the axis.
I.e. Pull back to increase power, forward to slow down/brake?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824957</id>
	<title>Re:I seem to remember</title>
	<author>MozeeToby</author>
	<datestamp>1256147280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is just idle speculation, but what if they took care of the 'keeping steady' part for you?  Both for speed and direction.  For speed, it would be like you are always using cruise control, the neutral forward/back position means maintain the current speed.  Back a little is coast, back a lot is brake.  Steering is harder, obviously, but is a move towards auto-drive systems that most of us have wanted for decades.</p><p>I guess that what I'm trying to say is that technology has changed a lot in 20 years.  What didn't work then might be doable now.  I could see this as being a gentle introduction to having my car drive itself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just idle speculation , but what if they took care of the 'keeping steady ' part for you ?
Both for speed and direction .
For speed , it would be like you are always using cruise control , the neutral forward/back position means maintain the current speed .
Back a little is coast , back a lot is brake .
Steering is harder , obviously , but is a move towards auto-drive systems that most of us have wanted for decades.I guess that what I 'm trying to say is that technology has changed a lot in 20 years .
What did n't work then might be doable now .
I could see this as being a gentle introduction to having my car drive itself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just idle speculation, but what if they took care of the 'keeping steady' part for you?
Both for speed and direction.
For speed, it would be like you are always using cruise control, the neutral forward/back position means maintain the current speed.
Back a little is coast, back a lot is brake.
Steering is harder, obviously, but is a move towards auto-drive systems that most of us have wanted for decades.I guess that what I'm trying to say is that technology has changed a lot in 20 years.
What didn't work then might be doable now.
I could see this as being a gentle introduction to having my car drive itself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824309</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826105</id>
	<title>Re:Won't catch on until you can keybind</title>
	<author>lobiusmoop</author>
	<datestamp>1256151660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you enable<nobr> <wbr></nobr><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noclip\_mode" title="wikipedia.org">/noclip</a> [wikipedia.org] does that mean you can do without insurance?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you enable /noclip [ wikipedia.org ] does that mean you can do without insurance ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you enable /noclip [wikipedia.org] does that mean you can do without insurance?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824273</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824641</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256145900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, Airbus' have joysticks, and they are all electrical, no connections to the actual surfaces, and no feedback either.  Boeings all have yokes, the newer ones being completely separated from the actual surfaces (737 is the only one that has a quasi-connection, and they have feedback due to some motors in the base.  The next gen is going to be joysticks that have feedback with motors.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , Airbus ' have joysticks , and they are all electrical , no connections to the actual surfaces , and no feedback either .
Boeings all have yokes , the newer ones being completely separated from the actual surfaces ( 737 is the only one that has a quasi-connection , and they have feedback due to some motors in the base .
The next gen is going to be joysticks that have feedback with motors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, Airbus' have joysticks, and they are all electrical, no connections to the actual surfaces, and no feedback either.
Boeings all have yokes, the newer ones being completely separated from the actual surfaces (737 is the only one that has a quasi-connection, and they have feedback due to some motors in the base.
The next gen is going to be joysticks that have feedback with motors.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825059</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>Ethanol-fueled</author>
	<datestamp>1256147700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But, the steering wheel is also used as a brace during sharp turns. What would be your anchor if you have just a puny joystick while the force is pushing you to the side?</htmltext>
<tokenext>But , the steering wheel is also used as a brace during sharp turns .
What would be your anchor if you have just a puny joystick while the force is pushing you to the side ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But, the steering wheel is also used as a brace during sharp turns.
What would be your anchor if you have just a puny joystick while the force is pushing you to the side?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824609</id>
	<title>Re:I seem to remember</title>
	<author>mewsenews</author>
	<datestamp>1256145720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If people didn't try things because others had failed at the same thing before, the Wright brothers never would've left the ground. Kudos to Toyota.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If people did n't try things because others had failed at the same thing before , the Wright brothers never would 've left the ground .
Kudos to Toyota .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If people didn't try things because others had failed at the same thing before, the Wright brothers never would've left the ground.
Kudos to Toyota.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824309</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826603</id>
	<title>Joysticks!</title>
	<author>mac84</author>
	<datestamp>1256153580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This will be popular with the granola's that haven't a clue of the value of great tactile feedback in a properly designed steering and braking system. Those Atari joysticks are just as good to them.  Even better will be when the car drives itself and they can blissfully text and email.  Just like if they were riding the bus.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This will be popular with the granola 's that have n't a clue of the value of great tactile feedback in a properly designed steering and braking system .
Those Atari joysticks are just as good to them .
Even better will be when the car drives itself and they can blissfully text and email .
Just like if they were riding the bus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This will be popular with the granola's that haven't a clue of the value of great tactile feedback in a properly designed steering and braking system.
Those Atari joysticks are just as good to them.
Even better will be when the car drives itself and they can blissfully text and email.
Just like if they were riding the bus.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826285</id>
	<title>Numerous issues involved with the joystick control</title>
	<author>cyn1c77</author>
	<datestamp>1256152440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think that the steering wheel could be replaced with a joystick axis easily.  I am concerned however, that it would be a lot harder for people to get used to gas and brake petals replaced with a joystick axis.  For non-gamers it would be like trying to learn how to play FPS games for the first time with a mouse as the controller.    </p><p>Also, currently the petals naturally return to the idle position when released and give pressure feedback when pressed.  This is partially a safety issue as the car slows down if you pass out, stop paying attention, etc.   </p><p>Would a joystick do that too?  Is it healthy for your wrist to hold a joystick in a position for a long time with it exerting pressure on your body... after using a computer mouse and keyboard all day?     </p><p>If anything, I would rather see simultaneous throttle gas/break hand controls AND gas/brake petals.  The petals should get priority, while the hand control allows for an alternative control mechanism on long trips. </p><p>

This is all dumb anyway.  The real end game is to have the computer entirely control the car.  That is what will eventually make driving more comfortable for the driver.

Airplanes can fly themselves, yet they have not been around as long as cars.  It is high time that industry and government invest in autonomous control of automobiles... if only for lethal speeds above 40 mpg.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that the steering wheel could be replaced with a joystick axis easily .
I am concerned however , that it would be a lot harder for people to get used to gas and brake petals replaced with a joystick axis .
For non-gamers it would be like trying to learn how to play FPS games for the first time with a mouse as the controller .
Also , currently the petals naturally return to the idle position when released and give pressure feedback when pressed .
This is partially a safety issue as the car slows down if you pass out , stop paying attention , etc .
Would a joystick do that too ?
Is it healthy for your wrist to hold a joystick in a position for a long time with it exerting pressure on your body... after using a computer mouse and keyboard all day ?
If anything , I would rather see simultaneous throttle gas/break hand controls AND gas/brake petals .
The petals should get priority , while the hand control allows for an alternative control mechanism on long trips .
This is all dumb anyway .
The real end game is to have the computer entirely control the car .
That is what will eventually make driving more comfortable for the driver .
Airplanes can fly themselves , yet they have not been around as long as cars .
It is high time that industry and government invest in autonomous control of automobiles... if only for lethal speeds above 40 mpg .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that the steering wheel could be replaced with a joystick axis easily.
I am concerned however, that it would be a lot harder for people to get used to gas and brake petals replaced with a joystick axis.
For non-gamers it would be like trying to learn how to play FPS games for the first time with a mouse as the controller.
Also, currently the petals naturally return to the idle position when released and give pressure feedback when pressed.
This is partially a safety issue as the car slows down if you pass out, stop paying attention, etc.
Would a joystick do that too?
Is it healthy for your wrist to hold a joystick in a position for a long time with it exerting pressure on your body... after using a computer mouse and keyboard all day?
If anything, I would rather see simultaneous throttle gas/break hand controls AND gas/brake petals.
The petals should get priority, while the hand control allows for an alternative control mechanism on long trips.
This is all dumb anyway.
The real end game is to have the computer entirely control the car.
That is what will eventually make driving more comfortable for the driver.
Airplanes can fly themselves, yet they have not been around as long as cars.
It is high time that industry and government invest in autonomous control of automobiles... if only for lethal speeds above 40 mpg.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824619</id>
	<title>Re:Left vs right handed?</title>
	<author>elrs3</author>
	<datestamp>1256145780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the joystick replaces the gearshift, Lefthanders can sit on the Right Side of the car.
It'll be a little tricky paying tolls though....</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the joystick replaces the gearshift , Lefthanders can sit on the Right Side of the car .
It 'll be a little tricky paying tolls though... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the joystick replaces the gearshift, Lefthanders can sit on the Right Side of the car.
It'll be a little tricky paying tolls though....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824435</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825963</id>
	<title>Powerglove</title>
	<author>space\_jake</author>
	<datestamp>1256151180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I love the Powerglove... its so bad.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I love the Powerglove... its so bad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love the Powerglove... its so bad.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824421</id>
	<title>mercedes did something like that a long time ago ^</title>
	<author>Ruede</author>
	<datestamp>1256144820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>mercedes did something like that a long time ago ^^</htmltext>
<tokenext>mercedes did something like that a long time ago ^ ^</tokentext>
<sentencetext>mercedes did something like that a long time ago ^^</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29845931</id>
	<title>Re:Johnny Cab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256312040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is an old idea.</p><p>Over 15 years ago, a consortium of European car manufacturers worked on Prometheus.  Its goal was to improve efficiency and safety.  The Joystick control for cars was one part of the project.  <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/motoring-will-the-joystick-take-the-joy-out-of-driving-roger-bell-surveys-an-initiative-designed-to-take-motoring-into-the-21st-century-1482588.html" title="independent.co.uk" rel="nofollow"> 1993 article.</a> [independent.co.uk]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is an old idea.Over 15 years ago , a consortium of European car manufacturers worked on Prometheus .
Its goal was to improve efficiency and safety .
The Joystick control for cars was one part of the project .
1993 article .
[ independent.co.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is an old idea.Over 15 years ago, a consortium of European car manufacturers worked on Prometheus.
Its goal was to improve efficiency and safety.
The Joystick control for cars was one part of the project.
1993 article.
[independent.co.uk]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824215</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825293</id>
	<title>Re:I can just see it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256148780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Problem I see is that a joystick would be controlling two very different things, direction and speed. On the one hand, you don't want a left/right twitch to suddenly deflect the wheels; on the other, if you slam the stick to the braking position you don't want a delay in response.</p><p>A possible issue at high speed is the turn itself--you're pushing the stick one way, but centripetal force pushes you the other. In a plane this isn't an issue because left/right controls roll, not yaw.</p><p>Similarly, which direction is accelerate and which is brake? If you do it intuitively (forward=accelerate, backward=brake) you again have issues during emergency braking because you're pulling back while the rest of you is pushing forward. In a plane this doesn't matter because the throttles have moderate resistance; and in a helicopter that pitches the whole chopper forward or backward, too.</p><p>Apparently some cars already have stick controls, how have they handled these issues? Or is it assumed that handicapped drivers aren't likely to drive to such extremes?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Problem I see is that a joystick would be controlling two very different things , direction and speed .
On the one hand , you do n't want a left/right twitch to suddenly deflect the wheels ; on the other , if you slam the stick to the braking position you do n't want a delay in response.A possible issue at high speed is the turn itself--you 're pushing the stick one way , but centripetal force pushes you the other .
In a plane this is n't an issue because left/right controls roll , not yaw.Similarly , which direction is accelerate and which is brake ?
If you do it intuitively ( forward = accelerate , backward = brake ) you again have issues during emergency braking because you 're pulling back while the rest of you is pushing forward .
In a plane this does n't matter because the throttles have moderate resistance ; and in a helicopter that pitches the whole chopper forward or backward , too.Apparently some cars already have stick controls , how have they handled these issues ?
Or is it assumed that handicapped drivers are n't likely to drive to such extremes ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Problem I see is that a joystick would be controlling two very different things, direction and speed.
On the one hand, you don't want a left/right twitch to suddenly deflect the wheels; on the other, if you slam the stick to the braking position you don't want a delay in response.A possible issue at high speed is the turn itself--you're pushing the stick one way, but centripetal force pushes you the other.
In a plane this isn't an issue because left/right controls roll, not yaw.Similarly, which direction is accelerate and which is brake?
If you do it intuitively (forward=accelerate, backward=brake) you again have issues during emergency braking because you're pulling back while the rest of you is pushing forward.
In a plane this doesn't matter because the throttles have moderate resistance; and in a helicopter that pitches the whole chopper forward or backward, too.Apparently some cars already have stick controls, how have they handled these issues?
Or is it assumed that handicapped drivers aren't likely to drive to such extremes?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827695</id>
	<title>Re:Advantages/disadvantages</title>
	<author>pikalek</author>
	<datestamp>1256158380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Last time I saw this, it was part of GM's <a href="http://www.gizmag.com/go/1166/" title="gizmag.com" rel="nofollow">Autonomy</a> [gizmag.com] program which had the additional goal of separating the car's chassis for it's base aka the <a href="http://media.www.eraunews.com/media/storage/paper917/news/2002/02/22/Diversions/skateboard.Car.Platform.May.Be.The.Wave.Of.The.Future-1651909.shtml" title="eraunews.com" rel="nofollow">skateboard</a> [eraunews.com].

<a href="http://www.howstuffworks.com/hy-wire.htm/printable" title="howstuffworks.com" rel="nofollow"> Autonomy used a drive-by-wire wheel</a> [howstuffworks.com], but did away w/ the foot controls.  I vaguely recall having seen evidence that this move improved driver reaction time; something about one mode of reaction (hand controls only) out performing two modes of reaction (foot &amp; hand), but I can't dig up the details.
<br> <br>
thus additional pros:<br>
ability to radically redefine chassis<br>
improved safety (provided I'm recalling correctly)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Last time I saw this , it was part of GM 's Autonomy [ gizmag.com ] program which had the additional goal of separating the car 's chassis for it 's base aka the skateboard [ eraunews.com ] .
Autonomy used a drive-by-wire wheel [ howstuffworks.com ] , but did away w/ the foot controls .
I vaguely recall having seen evidence that this move improved driver reaction time ; something about one mode of reaction ( hand controls only ) out performing two modes of reaction ( foot &amp; hand ) , but I ca n't dig up the details .
thus additional pros : ability to radically redefine chassis improved safety ( provided I 'm recalling correctly )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last time I saw this, it was part of GM's Autonomy [gizmag.com] program which had the additional goal of separating the car's chassis for it's base aka the skateboard [eraunews.com].
Autonomy used a drive-by-wire wheel [howstuffworks.com], but did away w/ the foot controls.
I vaguely recall having seen evidence that this move improved driver reaction time; something about one mode of reaction (hand controls only) out performing two modes of reaction (foot &amp; hand), but I can't dig up the details.
thus additional pros:
ability to radically redefine chassis
improved safety (provided I'm recalling correctly)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825873</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825239</id>
	<title>Re:Special license needed?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256148420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The middle pedal is the brake.  My car doesn't have a break pedal.  It's not a clown car.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The middle pedal is the brake .
My car does n't have a break pedal .
It 's not a clown car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The middle pedal is the brake.
My car doesn't have a break pedal.
It's not a clown car.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824307</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825317</id>
	<title>Re:Johnny Cab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256148900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder if Honda or Nissan will now go for a Wii controller?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if Honda or Nissan will now go for a Wii controller ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if Honda or Nissan will now go for a Wii controller?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824215</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825225</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>ArbitraryDescriptor</author>
	<datestamp>1256148360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>angular acceleration</p> </div><p>That's a good point; I started thinking about how I currently compensate for this, and I realized I do it by holding onto the steering wheel and shifting my weight.  The steering wheel has a secondary function as an anchor, you can push on it, pull it, and lift it without altering your course.  I can't picture how I would do this if the only thing I can put my hands on are an "oh shit bar" and the joystick.  A centrally located joystick console, which I will call a 'nut-buster' is no good, for obvious reasons.  A 5-point safety harness could work, but, while safe and functional, would probably discourage seatbelt use.<br> <br>Disclaimer:  I am an aggressive driver at times, but making this less safe does not punish my bad habits, it just makes the car less safe when you (the defensive driver) are already in danger and forced to drive like me.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>angular acceleration That 's a good point ; I started thinking about how I currently compensate for this , and I realized I do it by holding onto the steering wheel and shifting my weight .
The steering wheel has a secondary function as an anchor , you can push on it , pull it , and lift it without altering your course .
I ca n't picture how I would do this if the only thing I can put my hands on are an " oh shit bar " and the joystick .
A centrally located joystick console , which I will call a 'nut-buster ' is no good , for obvious reasons .
A 5-point safety harness could work , but , while safe and functional , would probably discourage seatbelt use .
Disclaimer : I am an aggressive driver at times , but making this less safe does not punish my bad habits , it just makes the car less safe when you ( the defensive driver ) are already in danger and forced to drive like me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>angular acceleration That's a good point; I started thinking about how I currently compensate for this, and I realized I do it by holding onto the steering wheel and shifting my weight.
The steering wheel has a secondary function as an anchor, you can push on it, pull it, and lift it without altering your course.
I can't picture how I would do this if the only thing I can put my hands on are an "oh shit bar" and the joystick.
A centrally located joystick console, which I will call a 'nut-buster' is no good, for obvious reasons.
A 5-point safety harness could work, but, while safe and functional, would probably discourage seatbelt use.
Disclaimer:  I am an aggressive driver at times, but making this less safe does not punish my bad habits, it just makes the car less safe when you (the defensive driver) are already in danger and forced to drive like me.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824585</id>
	<title>Joystick control</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256145600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is an exceptionally bad idea.  Even with extensive training, in an emergency, you do not think about how to react, and decades of "muscle memory" kicks in.  There will be many, many instances of someone in a crisis situation trying in vain to stop their vehicle by attempting to stomp on a non-existant brake pedal.
<br> <br>
If you change the QWERTY keyboard, for example, all you have are some frustrated touch-typists.  Change this interface and you're going to have scores of dead bodies followed by inevitable lawsuits.  A steering wheel and pedals may not be the best interface, but it's too late to change unless you have both systems in place for decades until a new generation of drivers are trained to use only the joystick mechanism.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is an exceptionally bad idea .
Even with extensive training , in an emergency , you do not think about how to react , and decades of " muscle memory " kicks in .
There will be many , many instances of someone in a crisis situation trying in vain to stop their vehicle by attempting to stomp on a non-existant brake pedal .
If you change the QWERTY keyboard , for example , all you have are some frustrated touch-typists .
Change this interface and you 're going to have scores of dead bodies followed by inevitable lawsuits .
A steering wheel and pedals may not be the best interface , but it 's too late to change unless you have both systems in place for decades until a new generation of drivers are trained to use only the joystick mechanism .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is an exceptionally bad idea.
Even with extensive training, in an emergency, you do not think about how to react, and decades of "muscle memory" kicks in.
There will be many, many instances of someone in a crisis situation trying in vain to stop their vehicle by attempting to stomp on a non-existant brake pedal.
If you change the QWERTY keyboard, for example, all you have are some frustrated touch-typists.
Change this interface and you're going to have scores of dead bodies followed by inevitable lawsuits.
A steering wheel and pedals may not be the best interface, but it's too late to change unless you have both systems in place for decades until a new generation of drivers are trained to use only the joystick mechanism.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824197</id>
	<title>Great...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256143800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...now where's my flying car?!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...now where 's my flying car ?
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...now where's my flying car?
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824431</id>
	<title>Publicity Stunt</title>
	<author>TheRealPacmanJones</author>
	<datestamp>1256144820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sounds more likely to be something that Toyota is going to try becuase they can do it, not to sell it or even really bring it to market. They put this out and people talk about Toyota for a while and then like alot of stuff that comes out at car shows, never sees the inside of a showroom. Just my two cents though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds more likely to be something that Toyota is going to try becuase they can do it , not to sell it or even really bring it to market .
They put this out and people talk about Toyota for a while and then like alot of stuff that comes out at car shows , never sees the inside of a showroom .
Just my two cents though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds more likely to be something that Toyota is going to try becuase they can do it, not to sell it or even really bring it to market.
They put this out and people talk about Toyota for a while and then like alot of stuff that comes out at car shows, never sees the inside of a showroom.
Just my two cents though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29835443</id>
	<title>Re:So many problems...</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256227740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Left foot:<br>- lift up on shifter: up one gear<br>- push down on shifter: down one gear</p></div><p>That's actually over-simplified, first gear is actually down and subsequent gears are up. You start in first then go up into second, third, etc. but coming down you go straight from second to neutral (first is too slow to be useful when coming to a stop). So if your bike has 4 gears, from the top down they'd be 4, 3, 2, N, 1.</p><p>Unless you've got a weird bike that's reversed (apparently such gearing exists on some bikes)...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Left foot : - lift up on shifter : up one gear- push down on shifter : down one gearThat 's actually over-simplified , first gear is actually down and subsequent gears are up .
You start in first then go up into second , third , etc .
but coming down you go straight from second to neutral ( first is too slow to be useful when coming to a stop ) .
So if your bike has 4 gears , from the top down they 'd be 4 , 3 , 2 , N , 1.Unless you 've got a weird bike that 's reversed ( apparently such gearing exists on some bikes ) .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Left foot:- lift up on shifter: up one gear- push down on shifter: down one gearThat's actually over-simplified, first gear is actually down and subsequent gears are up.
You start in first then go up into second, third, etc.
but coming down you go straight from second to neutral (first is too slow to be useful when coming to a stop).
So if your bike has 4 gears, from the top down they'd be 4, 3, 2, N, 1.Unless you've got a weird bike that's reversed (apparently such gearing exists on some bikes)...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825207</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824707</id>
	<title>Re:I can just see it</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1256146200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The reality is that a joystick will allow a twitch of your arm to go from full right turn at full throttle to full left turn at full brake.</p><p>Thats not something that people can do currently with a wheel and peddles, AND THATS A GOOD THING.  Don't believe me?  Get in your car, get up to 70mph or so on an isolated road (don't want to hurt anyone other than yourself) and turn your steering wheel back and forth from full left to full right.</p><p>$20 says you can't even get it all the way to one extreme before losing control at 45/mph, let alone highway speeds.</p><p>So now they are going to have to do it more in a fly by wire kind of setup so that it can turn down the sensitivity at higher speeds for safety<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... which then takes control away from the driver that may be useful.</p><p>Finally, there are other vehicles that occasionally use something other than a steering wheel for steering,  NONE of them are intended to be driven by the guy off the street, they aren't stable enough to allow for that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reality is that a joystick will allow a twitch of your arm to go from full right turn at full throttle to full left turn at full brake.Thats not something that people can do currently with a wheel and peddles , AND THATS A GOOD THING .
Do n't believe me ?
Get in your car , get up to 70mph or so on an isolated road ( do n't want to hurt anyone other than yourself ) and turn your steering wheel back and forth from full left to full right. $ 20 says you ca n't even get it all the way to one extreme before losing control at 45/mph , let alone highway speeds.So now they are going to have to do it more in a fly by wire kind of setup so that it can turn down the sensitivity at higher speeds for safety ... which then takes control away from the driver that may be useful.Finally , there are other vehicles that occasionally use something other than a steering wheel for steering , NONE of them are intended to be driven by the guy off the street , they are n't stable enough to allow for that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reality is that a joystick will allow a twitch of your arm to go from full right turn at full throttle to full left turn at full brake.Thats not something that people can do currently with a wheel and peddles, AND THATS A GOOD THING.
Don't believe me?
Get in your car, get up to 70mph or so on an isolated road (don't want to hurt anyone other than yourself) and turn your steering wheel back and forth from full left to full right.$20 says you can't even get it all the way to one extreme before losing control at 45/mph, let alone highway speeds.So now they are going to have to do it more in a fly by wire kind of setup so that it can turn down the sensitivity at higher speeds for safety ... which then takes control away from the driver that may be useful.Finally, there are other vehicles that occasionally use something other than a steering wheel for steering,  NONE of them are intended to be driven by the guy off the street, they aren't stable enough to allow for that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824509</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824229</id>
	<title>Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256143980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What happens when there's a power steering failure?  I know it's not a common problem, but it is a problem which randomly comes up.  At least with a steering wheel the driver can generally muscle the wheels to turn- I can't imagine a joystick acting as an actual lever to turn the wheels, but as more of an electronic device to turn on some motors which would handle this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What happens when there 's a power steering failure ?
I know it 's not a common problem , but it is a problem which randomly comes up .
At least with a steering wheel the driver can generally muscle the wheels to turn- I ca n't imagine a joystick acting as an actual lever to turn the wheels , but as more of an electronic device to turn on some motors which would handle this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What happens when there's a power steering failure?
I know it's not a common problem, but it is a problem which randomly comes up.
At least with a steering wheel the driver can generally muscle the wheels to turn- I can't imagine a joystick acting as an actual lever to turn the wheels, but as more of an electronic device to turn on some motors which would handle this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29851193</id>
	<title>Re:I can't believe the naysayers</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256290440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Aren't you forgetting acceleration and deceleration? Or are you claiming they're insignificant while in-flight, which I can perhaps understand... planes typically don't change speed that much while in-flight.</p><p>Anyway, it's exactly the opposite in a car. The primary forces are acceleration and deceleration, you have almost no vertical forces, and sideways forces are mild but significant in some cases. However, not so significant as to cause problems in controlling the vehicle &ndash; even in a fairly hard turn it wouldn't be difficult to overcome the momentum force (which would be pushing your arm in the direction which would tend to lean the stick up and flatten the curve). The main thing you don't want is the large forward momentum of quick deceleration preventing you from holding the brakes, which is why the brakes should be pushed forward, not pulled back, to engage them. Thus your momentum would help you apply brakes and stop. In acceleration your inertia would similarly be helping you, but that's not as crucial from a safety standpoint.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>So to further address your issue, Fighter aircraft are NOT controlled by joysticks when you look at it from the perspective of Yaw.</p></div><p>That's an interesting point. Am I to understand that the pedals could be used to land the plane if the fly-by-wire was lost? You'd still have no pitch control, if I'm not mistaken, and the yaw pedals are less effective at high speeds, right? The quickest method of turning an aircraft is to roll, then increase your pitch in your tilted frame of reference. (Do commercial airliners use the yaw controls more, so as to avoid steep angles of roll which might disturb the passengers?)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Are n't you forgetting acceleration and deceleration ?
Or are you claiming they 're insignificant while in-flight , which I can perhaps understand... planes typically do n't change speed that much while in-flight.Anyway , it 's exactly the opposite in a car .
The primary forces are acceleration and deceleration , you have almost no vertical forces , and sideways forces are mild but significant in some cases .
However , not so significant as to cause problems in controlling the vehicle    even in a fairly hard turn it would n't be difficult to overcome the momentum force ( which would be pushing your arm in the direction which would tend to lean the stick up and flatten the curve ) .
The main thing you do n't want is the large forward momentum of quick deceleration preventing you from holding the brakes , which is why the brakes should be pushed forward , not pulled back , to engage them .
Thus your momentum would help you apply brakes and stop .
In acceleration your inertia would similarly be helping you , but that 's not as crucial from a safety standpoint.So to further address your issue , Fighter aircraft are NOT controlled by joysticks when you look at it from the perspective of Yaw.That 's an interesting point .
Am I to understand that the pedals could be used to land the plane if the fly-by-wire was lost ?
You 'd still have no pitch control , if I 'm not mistaken , and the yaw pedals are less effective at high speeds , right ?
The quickest method of turning an aircraft is to roll , then increase your pitch in your tilted frame of reference .
( Do commercial airliners use the yaw controls more , so as to avoid steep angles of roll which might disturb the passengers ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aren't you forgetting acceleration and deceleration?
Or are you claiming they're insignificant while in-flight, which I can perhaps understand... planes typically don't change speed that much while in-flight.Anyway, it's exactly the opposite in a car.
The primary forces are acceleration and deceleration, you have almost no vertical forces, and sideways forces are mild but significant in some cases.
However, not so significant as to cause problems in controlling the vehicle – even in a fairly hard turn it wouldn't be difficult to overcome the momentum force (which would be pushing your arm in the direction which would tend to lean the stick up and flatten the curve).
The main thing you don't want is the large forward momentum of quick deceleration preventing you from holding the brakes, which is why the brakes should be pushed forward, not pulled back, to engage them.
Thus your momentum would help you apply brakes and stop.
In acceleration your inertia would similarly be helping you, but that's not as crucial from a safety standpoint.So to further address your issue, Fighter aircraft are NOT controlled by joysticks when you look at it from the perspective of Yaw.That's an interesting point.
Am I to understand that the pedals could be used to land the plane if the fly-by-wire was lost?
You'd still have no pitch control, if I'm not mistaken, and the yaw pedals are less effective at high speeds, right?
The quickest method of turning an aircraft is to roll, then increase your pitch in your tilted frame of reference.
(Do commercial airliners use the yaw controls more, so as to avoid steep angles of roll which might disturb the passengers?
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827093</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29827409</id>
	<title>Re:Force Feedback?</title>
	<author>mobby\_6kl</author>
	<datestamp>1256157120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's a problem with Toyota shiboxes, not with modern cars in general. BMW are probably best at this from the mainstream manufacturers, though plenty of other, even more affordable, brands also provide excellent handling and feedback. As for tires, well I happen to think it's better to have more grip than less, so unless you're racing on a WRC snow stage, wider tires it is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a problem with Toyota shiboxes , not with modern cars in general .
BMW are probably best at this from the mainstream manufacturers , though plenty of other , even more affordable , brands also provide excellent handling and feedback .
As for tires , well I happen to think it 's better to have more grip than less , so unless you 're racing on a WRC snow stage , wider tires it is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a problem with Toyota shiboxes, not with modern cars in general.
BMW are probably best at this from the mainstream manufacturers, though plenty of other, even more affordable, brands also provide excellent handling and feedback.
As for tires, well I happen to think it's better to have more grip than less, so unless you're racing on a WRC snow stage, wider tires it is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824377</id>
	<title>Need for Speed: Reality Edition</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256144520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I will finally be able to drift around corners since I can't do it in real life, but I am a pretty awesome drifter in games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I will finally be able to drift around corners since I ca n't do it in real life , but I am a pretty awesome drifter in games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I will finally be able to drift around corners since I can't do it in real life, but I am a pretty awesome drifter in games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824239</id>
	<title>zomg</title>
	<author>ZekoMal</author>
	<datestamp>1256143980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>This better be implemented, just for the cool factor. Unfortunately, I could see the added joystick capability could end up making it too easy to perform particularly risky maneuvers (IE, aggressive drivers now have the skill of a race car video game), but it could also make driving easier. The only problem I see is parallel parking, which would be worlds different with joystick control. Although from how the article put it, it just sounds like these joysticks are the left and right side of a steering wheel: they react the same regardless of which one you touch.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This better be implemented , just for the cool factor .
Unfortunately , I could see the added joystick capability could end up making it too easy to perform particularly risky maneuvers ( IE , aggressive drivers now have the skill of a race car video game ) , but it could also make driving easier .
The only problem I see is parallel parking , which would be worlds different with joystick control .
Although from how the article put it , it just sounds like these joysticks are the left and right side of a steering wheel : they react the same regardless of which one you touch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This better be implemented, just for the cool factor.
Unfortunately, I could see the added joystick capability could end up making it too easy to perform particularly risky maneuvers (IE, aggressive drivers now have the skill of a race car video game), but it could also make driving easier.
The only problem I see is parallel parking, which would be worlds different with joystick control.
Although from how the article put it, it just sounds like these joysticks are the left and right side of a steering wheel: they react the same regardless of which one you touch.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29825151</id>
	<title>Re:Power Steering failure?</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256148060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, by muscling a large wheel through quite a few degrees you can turn the car. Trying to exert enough force on the much-smaller joystick to turn the wheels would be impossible, though.</p><p>With the wheel you're turning it: no hard limit on how far it can spin, plus you have torque from the length of the wheel's radius. A joystick is a simple lever: it has a hard limit on how far it can go in any one direction (a very small distance, underneath where the wires would attach), and you only have the torque generated by the length of the joystick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , by muscling a large wheel through quite a few degrees you can turn the car .
Trying to exert enough force on the much-smaller joystick to turn the wheels would be impossible , though.With the wheel you 're turning it : no hard limit on how far it can spin , plus you have torque from the length of the wheel 's radius .
A joystick is a simple lever : it has a hard limit on how far it can go in any one direction ( a very small distance , underneath where the wires would attach ) , and you only have the torque generated by the length of the joystick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, by muscling a large wheel through quite a few degrees you can turn the car.
Trying to exert enough force on the much-smaller joystick to turn the wheels would be impossible, though.With the wheel you're turning it: no hard limit on how far it can spin, plus you have torque from the length of the wheel's radius.
A joystick is a simple lever: it has a hard limit on how far it can go in any one direction (a very small distance, underneath where the wires would attach), and you only have the torque generated by the length of the joystick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29826971</id>
	<title>Re:I seem to remember</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1256155200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Assuming that cars won't be steering themselves for a while, it would still be <em>very</em> difficult to get used to a yaw control that didn't "center" at some consistent point.</p><p>Besides which, the driver should keep his/her hand on the stick at all times anyway... allowing them to set a gradual turn and then take their hand off the stick while the car continues to turn would encourage bad driving behaviours.</p><p>Also, you'd need to reverse the throttle: Push to brake, pull to accelerate. This is how boats and airplanes work, and for a very good reason: when you accelerate, inertia pulls your hand back; when you decelerate, momentum pushes it forward. If you need to stop hard, you want momentum to <em>help</em> you apply brake, not hinder you. Similarly if you're a little heavy-handed and accidentally jackrabbit the vehicle, inertia should tend to discourage this rather than make it worse. Push to accelerate and pull to brake would be dangerous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Assuming that cars wo n't be steering themselves for a while , it would still be very difficult to get used to a yaw control that did n't " center " at some consistent point.Besides which , the driver should keep his/her hand on the stick at all times anyway... allowing them to set a gradual turn and then take their hand off the stick while the car continues to turn would encourage bad driving behaviours.Also , you 'd need to reverse the throttle : Push to brake , pull to accelerate .
This is how boats and airplanes work , and for a very good reason : when you accelerate , inertia pulls your hand back ; when you decelerate , momentum pushes it forward .
If you need to stop hard , you want momentum to help you apply brake , not hinder you .
Similarly if you 're a little heavy-handed and accidentally jackrabbit the vehicle , inertia should tend to discourage this rather than make it worse .
Push to accelerate and pull to brake would be dangerous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Assuming that cars won't be steering themselves for a while, it would still be very difficult to get used to a yaw control that didn't "center" at some consistent point.Besides which, the driver should keep his/her hand on the stick at all times anyway... allowing them to set a gradual turn and then take their hand off the stick while the car continues to turn would encourage bad driving behaviours.Also, you'd need to reverse the throttle: Push to brake, pull to accelerate.
This is how boats and airplanes work, and for a very good reason: when you accelerate, inertia pulls your hand back; when you decelerate, momentum pushes it forward.
If you need to stop hard, you want momentum to help you apply brake, not hinder you.
Similarly if you're a little heavy-handed and accidentally jackrabbit the vehicle, inertia should tend to discourage this rather than make it worse.
Push to accelerate and pull to brake would be dangerous.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1454209.29824957</parent>
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