<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_19_2248214</id>
	<title>Ultracapacitor Bus Recharges At Each Stop</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1255955100000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>TechReviewAl writes <i>"A US company and its Chinese partner are <a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/23754/">piloting a bus powered by ultracapacitors in Washington DC</a>. Ultracapacitors lack the capacity of regular batteries but are considerably cheaper and can be recharge completely in under a minute. Sinautec Automobile Technologies, based in Arlington, VA, and its Chinese partner, Shanghai Aowei Technology Development Company, have spent the past three years demonstrating the approach with 17 municipal buses on the outskirts of Shanghai. The executive director of Sinautec touts the energy efficiency of this approach: 'Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet [to charge an ultracapacitor], it generates a third of the carbon dioxide of diesel.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>TechReviewAl writes " A US company and its Chinese partner are piloting a bus powered by ultracapacitors in Washington DC .
Ultracapacitors lack the capacity of regular batteries but are considerably cheaper and can be recharge completely in under a minute .
Sinautec Automobile Technologies , based in Arlington , VA , and its Chinese partner , Shanghai Aowei Technology Development Company , have spent the past three years demonstrating the approach with 17 municipal buses on the outskirts of Shanghai .
The executive director of Sinautec touts the energy efficiency of this approach : 'Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet [ to charge an ultracapacitor ] , it generates a third of the carbon dioxide of diesel .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TechReviewAl writes "A US company and its Chinese partner are piloting a bus powered by ultracapacitors in Washington DC.
Ultracapacitors lack the capacity of regular batteries but are considerably cheaper and can be recharge completely in under a minute.
Sinautec Automobile Technologies, based in Arlington, VA, and its Chinese partner, Shanghai Aowei Technology Development Company, have spent the past three years demonstrating the approach with 17 municipal buses on the outskirts of Shanghai.
The executive director of Sinautec touts the energy efficiency of this approach: 'Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet [to charge an ultracapacitor], it generates a third of the carbon dioxide of diesel.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802763</id>
	<title>Re:Title goes here</title>
	<author>ShooterNeo</author>
	<datestamp>1255961220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, the red light problem is easily solvable.  The slower you go, the less power the electric motors need.  You could track via GPS how close you are to the next charging station, and automatically turn off things like the A/C if needed to make sure the bus gets to the next charge point.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , the red light problem is easily solvable .
The slower you go , the less power the electric motors need .
You could track via GPS how close you are to the next charging station , and automatically turn off things like the A/C if needed to make sure the bus gets to the next charge point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, the red light problem is easily solvable.
The slower you go, the less power the electric motors need.
You could track via GPS how close you are to the next charging station, and automatically turn off things like the A/C if needed to make sure the bus gets to the next charge point.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29807785</id>
	<title>Re:PIloting a Bus</title>
	<author>b0bby</author>
	<datestamp>1256052540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I think it would be much more interesting to know who designed and built it.</p></div><p>I found that out by the simple expedient of reading the article:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Buses in the Shanghai pilot are made by Germantown, TN-based Foton America Bus Co, which uses ultracapacitors manufactured by Shanghai Aowei.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it would be much more interesting to know who designed and built it.I found that out by the simple expedient of reading the article : Buses in the Shanghai pilot are made by Germantown , TN-based Foton America Bus Co , which uses ultracapacitors manufactured by Shanghai Aowei .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it would be much more interesting to know who designed and built it.I found that out by the simple expedient of reading the article:Buses in the Shanghai pilot are made by Germantown, TN-based Foton America Bus Co, which uses ultracapacitors manufactured by Shanghai Aowei.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804365</id>
	<title>How would it provide heat?</title>
	<author>mirix</author>
	<datestamp>1255976580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>In my part of the world at least, you need a lot of power to warm a bus from -40 to something more reasonable. Diesels have a hard time keeping up.<br>
Would they have another bank of capacitors for resistive heating?<br> <br>

What if the bus gets stuck in snow and runs out of charge? will the snow and slush cause problems with the charging contacts?<br> <br>

Trolleybusses seem a lot more practical to me, I never understood why they are so unpopular in north america, even if only used in high density areas, where the infrastructure would pay off.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my part of the world at least , you need a lot of power to warm a bus from -40 to something more reasonable .
Diesels have a hard time keeping up .
Would they have another bank of capacitors for resistive heating ?
What if the bus gets stuck in snow and runs out of charge ?
will the snow and slush cause problems with the charging contacts ?
Trolleybusses seem a lot more practical to me , I never understood why they are so unpopular in north america , even if only used in high density areas , where the infrastructure would pay off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my part of the world at least, you need a lot of power to warm a bus from -40 to something more reasonable.
Diesels have a hard time keeping up.
Would they have another bank of capacitors for resistive heating?
What if the bus gets stuck in snow and runs out of charge?
will the snow and slush cause problems with the charging contacts?
Trolleybusses seem a lot more practical to me, I never understood why they are so unpopular in north america, even if only used in high density areas, where the infrastructure would pay off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803877</id>
	<title>Re:one point missed, tech lifespan</title>
	<author>cdrguru</author>
	<datestamp>1255970700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One thing to keep in mind is that capacitors are designed to pretty much discharge all at once in a blinding flash whereas the internal resistance of a battery will limit the current to something that might take at least minutes to discharge, if not longer.</p><p>What causes fires with lithium-ion batteries is an internal short.  But still, there is enough resistance to limit the current to a dull glow.</p><p>A bus-sized ultracapacitor would need to be able to supply thousands of amps for many minutes.  Roughly, as a minimum you might need 20 minutes times 4000 amps or 80,000 amp-minutes at hundreds of volts.  You could get this from car batteries in series because 1200 amp-hours (about 80,000 amp-minutes) is a quite reasonable capacity for car batteries.  The problem is, you can't get 4000 amps out of car batteries because of the internal resistance.  Hence, an ultracapacitor to the rescue.</p><p>Except any fault in the electric supply means you have almost zero resistance feeding a short.  Yes, it would almost certainly take out the bus with the resulting explosion.  At least the capacitor would explode and maybe anything else connected to it in the circuit.  Lots of vaporized metal.</p><p>Note: 4,0000 amps at 480 volts is what is required to move a electric subway car.  I would guess you could get by with maybe half the total volt-amperes for a bus rather than a subway car.  But maybe not as there is a lot less resistance to rolling a subway car on tracks than a bus with tires.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One thing to keep in mind is that capacitors are designed to pretty much discharge all at once in a blinding flash whereas the internal resistance of a battery will limit the current to something that might take at least minutes to discharge , if not longer.What causes fires with lithium-ion batteries is an internal short .
But still , there is enough resistance to limit the current to a dull glow.A bus-sized ultracapacitor would need to be able to supply thousands of amps for many minutes .
Roughly , as a minimum you might need 20 minutes times 4000 amps or 80,000 amp-minutes at hundreds of volts .
You could get this from car batteries in series because 1200 amp-hours ( about 80,000 amp-minutes ) is a quite reasonable capacity for car batteries .
The problem is , you ca n't get 4000 amps out of car batteries because of the internal resistance .
Hence , an ultracapacitor to the rescue.Except any fault in the electric supply means you have almost zero resistance feeding a short .
Yes , it would almost certainly take out the bus with the resulting explosion .
At least the capacitor would explode and maybe anything else connected to it in the circuit .
Lots of vaporized metal.Note : 4,0000 amps at 480 volts is what is required to move a electric subway car .
I would guess you could get by with maybe half the total volt-amperes for a bus rather than a subway car .
But maybe not as there is a lot less resistance to rolling a subway car on tracks than a bus with tires .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One thing to keep in mind is that capacitors are designed to pretty much discharge all at once in a blinding flash whereas the internal resistance of a battery will limit the current to something that might take at least minutes to discharge, if not longer.What causes fires with lithium-ion batteries is an internal short.
But still, there is enough resistance to limit the current to a dull glow.A bus-sized ultracapacitor would need to be able to supply thousands of amps for many minutes.
Roughly, as a minimum you might need 20 minutes times 4000 amps or 80,000 amp-minutes at hundreds of volts.
You could get this from car batteries in series because 1200 amp-hours (about 80,000 amp-minutes) is a quite reasonable capacity for car batteries.
The problem is, you can't get 4000 amps out of car batteries because of the internal resistance.
Hence, an ultracapacitor to the rescue.Except any fault in the electric supply means you have almost zero resistance feeding a short.
Yes, it would almost certainly take out the bus with the resulting explosion.
At least the capacitor would explode and maybe anything else connected to it in the circuit.
Lots of vaporized metal.Note: 4,0000 amps at 480 volts is what is required to move a electric subway car.
I would guess you could get by with maybe half the total volt-amperes for a bus rather than a subway car.
But maybe not as there is a lot less resistance to rolling a subway car on tracks than a bus with tires.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802551</id>
	<title>tag</title>
	<author>rbasomb</author>
	<datestamp>1255959780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>mmmmm.... last year Team BMW Sauber almost cooked a F1 mechanic. <a href="http://www.bmwblog.com/2008/07/30/bmw-kers-shocks-mechanic-to-ground/" title="bmwblog.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.bmwblog.com/2008/07/30/bmw-kers-shocks-mechanic-to-ground/</a> [bmwblog.com]

whatcouldpossiblygowrong in a municipal bus?</htmltext>
<tokenext>mmmmm.... last year Team BMW Sauber almost cooked a F1 mechanic .
http : //www.bmwblog.com/2008/07/30/bmw-kers-shocks-mechanic-to-ground/ [ bmwblog.com ] whatcouldpossiblygowrong in a municipal bus ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>mmmmm.... last year Team BMW Sauber almost cooked a F1 mechanic.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2008/07/30/bmw-kers-shocks-mechanic-to-ground/ [bmwblog.com]

whatcouldpossiblygowrong in a municipal bus?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29805827</id>
	<title>Re:How......</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256041020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Factor in 15\% to 50\% (extreme) grid transmission loss, and (ops) 5\% to 10\% electric motor loss.</p><p>Now you're getting desperate. Even 15\% grid loss would be extreme.</p><p>Motor loss is whatever you choose it to be. It usually comes down to which costs less: using thicker copper to reduce the amount of energy converted to heat, or improving the cooling to get rid of the heat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Factor in 15 \ % to 50 \ % ( extreme ) grid transmission loss , and ( ops ) 5 \ % to 10 \ % electric motor loss.Now you 're getting desperate .
Even 15 \ % grid loss would be extreme.Motor loss is whatever you choose it to be .
It usually comes down to which costs less : using thicker copper to reduce the amount of energy converted to heat , or improving the cooling to get rid of the heat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Factor in 15\% to 50\% (extreme) grid transmission loss, and (ops) 5\% to 10\% electric motor loss.Now you're getting desperate.
Even 15\% grid loss would be extreme.Motor loss is whatever you choose it to be.
It usually comes down to which costs less: using thicker copper to reduce the amount of energy converted to heat, or improving the cooling to get rid of the heat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803753</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29814313</id>
	<title>Re:How......</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256032380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A dirty coal plant can put out a lot worse than CO2.  Various oxides of sulfur and nitrogen which can cause acid rain and are probably stronger greenhouse gasses than CO2.  Then there's mercury, other heavy metals, and radioactive isotopes that are released into the air.  Finally, don't forget particulate (ash), which may cause a reverse greenhouse effect by blocking out sunlight, but makes the air very dirty.
<br> <br>
Of course, diesel has impurities too, and without a good emissions control system it might be as bad as coal, but the point is you can't judge the environmental impact of an energy source on CO2 alone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A dirty coal plant can put out a lot worse than CO2 .
Various oxides of sulfur and nitrogen which can cause acid rain and are probably stronger greenhouse gasses than CO2 .
Then there 's mercury , other heavy metals , and radioactive isotopes that are released into the air .
Finally , do n't forget particulate ( ash ) , which may cause a reverse greenhouse effect by blocking out sunlight , but makes the air very dirty .
Of course , diesel has impurities too , and without a good emissions control system it might be as bad as coal , but the point is you ca n't judge the environmental impact of an energy source on CO2 alone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A dirty coal plant can put out a lot worse than CO2.
Various oxides of sulfur and nitrogen which can cause acid rain and are probably stronger greenhouse gasses than CO2.
Then there's mercury, other heavy metals, and radioactive isotopes that are released into the air.
Finally, don't forget particulate (ash), which may cause a reverse greenhouse effect by blocking out sunlight, but makes the air very dirty.
Of course, diesel has impurities too, and without a good emissions control system it might be as bad as coal, but the point is you can't judge the environmental impact of an energy source on CO2 alone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803753</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29808293</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256054580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The additional weight in the wheels makes the suspension less effective</i></p><p>Indeed, that's why they make alumanum and alloy wheels. The car I'm driving now has sixteen inch alloy wheels, and it handles better than any car I've owned. Put some big motors in them and the advantage goes away.</p><p>It seems you could have a single electric motor tied to the wheels with conventional drivetrains and still have regenerative braking, similar to old fashioned cars with stick shifts; you would downshift and have "engine braking". The difference is, with an electric motor you could reclaim some of the kinetic energy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The additional weight in the wheels makes the suspension less effectiveIndeed , that 's why they make alumanum and alloy wheels .
The car I 'm driving now has sixteen inch alloy wheels , and it handles better than any car I 've owned .
Put some big motors in them and the advantage goes away.It seems you could have a single electric motor tied to the wheels with conventional drivetrains and still have regenerative braking , similar to old fashioned cars with stick shifts ; you would downshift and have " engine braking " .
The difference is , with an electric motor you could reclaim some of the kinetic energy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The additional weight in the wheels makes the suspension less effectiveIndeed, that's why they make alumanum and alloy wheels.
The car I'm driving now has sixteen inch alloy wheels, and it handles better than any car I've owned.
Put some big motors in them and the advantage goes away.It seems you could have a single electric motor tied to the wheels with conventional drivetrains and still have regenerative braking, similar to old fashioned cars with stick shifts; you would downshift and have "engine braking".
The difference is, with an electric motor you could reclaim some of the kinetic energy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29810443</id>
	<title>Adiabatic Diesel Engine</title>
	<author>the eric conspiracy</author>
	<datestamp>1256061360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why not an adiabatic diesel engine? Some time ago DARPA had a project for a ceramic diesel engine; by reducing heat loss to the environment by running the ting with no cooling system they were predicting about 80\% efficiency.</p><p>I don't know why they gave up on it but it seems to me this would put an end to electric vehicles permanently.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not an adiabatic diesel engine ?
Some time ago DARPA had a project for a ceramic diesel engine ; by reducing heat loss to the environment by running the ting with no cooling system they were predicting about 80 \ % efficiency.I do n't know why they gave up on it but it seems to me this would put an end to electric vehicles permanently .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not an adiabatic diesel engine?
Some time ago DARPA had a project for a ceramic diesel engine; by reducing heat loss to the environment by running the ting with no cooling system they were predicting about 80\% efficiency.I don't know why they gave up on it but it seems to me this would put an end to electric vehicles permanently.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803223</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>iron spartan</author>
	<datestamp>1255964880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From working with industrial automation, I can tell you that trying to synchronize motion between two independently controlled electric motors, with independent loads, is a nightmare.  With modern control hardware we are getting better, but we are not there yet.  In 1995, I sure that the could make it look good for some tests, but there was no control system fast enough or smart enough to handle it.</p><p>Without even looking at the automotive side, i would kill to have a system that can manage multiple electric motors with rapidly changing load conditions for long periods of time without freaking out.  The possibilities for material handling systems and machine tending systems make me drool.</p><p>It was killed because Detroit couldn't make it work.  The idea of wheel mounted motors gets kicked around a lot, because it does have a lot of merits, but there are too many technical problems that need to be worked out yet before it becomes viable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From working with industrial automation , I can tell you that trying to synchronize motion between two independently controlled electric motors , with independent loads , is a nightmare .
With modern control hardware we are getting better , but we are not there yet .
In 1995 , I sure that the could make it look good for some tests , but there was no control system fast enough or smart enough to handle it.Without even looking at the automotive side , i would kill to have a system that can manage multiple electric motors with rapidly changing load conditions for long periods of time without freaking out .
The possibilities for material handling systems and machine tending systems make me drool.It was killed because Detroit could n't make it work .
The idea of wheel mounted motors gets kicked around a lot , because it does have a lot of merits , but there are too many technical problems that need to be worked out yet before it becomes viable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From working with industrial automation, I can tell you that trying to synchronize motion between two independently controlled electric motors, with independent loads, is a nightmare.
With modern control hardware we are getting better, but we are not there yet.
In 1995, I sure that the could make it look good for some tests, but there was no control system fast enough or smart enough to handle it.Without even looking at the automotive side, i would kill to have a system that can manage multiple electric motors with rapidly changing load conditions for long periods of time without freaking out.
The possibilities for material handling systems and machine tending systems make me drool.It was killed because Detroit couldn't make it work.
The idea of wheel mounted motors gets kicked around a lot, because it does have a lot of merits, but there are too many technical problems that need to be worked out yet before it becomes viable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802687</id>
	<title>We've been doing this for years</title>
	<author>mcrbids</author>
	<datestamp>1255960680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... in San Francisco, at least. They have lines of pure electric buses, with two power cables that run up to lines suspended over the road. You can <a href="http://adamahata.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/electirc-bus23.jpg" title="wordpress.com"> see one here</a> [wordpress.com] and I don't think this is particularly unique to San Francisco.</p><p>Is this to say that electric buses in San Francisco ALSO generate 1/3 the CO2? How are they lighter, since they aren lugging around huge ultracapacitors and regenerative brakes? How efficient are regenerative brakes? Could you put smaller ultracaps on existing buses and just use them to charge up from brakes, feeding the rest from the existing power lines?</p><p>Neat idea, but in reality, this doesn't seem like as big a step as it may seem. Might be nice to get rid of unsightly wires, though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... in San Francisco , at least .
They have lines of pure electric buses , with two power cables that run up to lines suspended over the road .
You can see one here [ wordpress.com ] and I do n't think this is particularly unique to San Francisco.Is this to say that electric buses in San Francisco ALSO generate 1/3 the CO2 ?
How are they lighter , since they aren lugging around huge ultracapacitors and regenerative brakes ?
How efficient are regenerative brakes ?
Could you put smaller ultracaps on existing buses and just use them to charge up from brakes , feeding the rest from the existing power lines ? Neat idea , but in reality , this does n't seem like as big a step as it may seem .
Might be nice to get rid of unsightly wires , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... in San Francisco, at least.
They have lines of pure electric buses, with two power cables that run up to lines suspended over the road.
You can  see one here [wordpress.com] and I don't think this is particularly unique to San Francisco.Is this to say that electric buses in San Francisco ALSO generate 1/3 the CO2?
How are they lighter, since they aren lugging around huge ultracapacitors and regenerative brakes?
How efficient are regenerative brakes?
Could you put smaller ultracaps on existing buses and just use them to charge up from brakes, feeding the rest from the existing power lines?Neat idea, but in reality, this doesn't seem like as big a step as it may seem.
Might be nice to get rid of unsightly wires, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802459</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29805185</id>
	<title>The fat guy sang too Re:Until...</title>
	<author>mrmeval</author>
	<datestamp>1256032080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.gizmag.com/michelin-active-wheel-production-electric-car-by-2010/10489/" title="gizmag.com">http://www.gizmag.com/michelin-active-wheel-production-electric-car-by-2010/10489/</a> [gizmag.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.gizmag.com/michelin-active-wheel-production-electric-car-by-2010/10489/ [ gizmag.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.gizmag.com/michelin-active-wheel-production-electric-car-by-2010/10489/ [gizmag.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802655</id>
	<title>No US company involved here....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255960440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sinautec, as I suspected, is a Chinese firm, with an office in VA.</p><p><a href="http://www.sinautecus.com/contact.html" title="sinautecus.com">http://www.sinautecus.com/contact.html</a> [sinautecus.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sinautec , as I suspected , is a Chinese firm , with an office in VA.http : //www.sinautecus.com/contact.html [ sinautecus.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sinautec, as I suspected, is a Chinese firm, with an office in VA.http://www.sinautecus.com/contact.html [sinautecus.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802467</id>
	<title>Title goes here</title>
	<author>AniVisual</author>
	<datestamp>1255959300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> So this is like a train that goes on roads. But instead of having electricity all throughout the rails, it has them only on some tracks. And oh, if there's a red light, bye-bye, you're dead. What I think it'd do instead is be like a hybrid that has the ability to recharge at every bus stop. But I think it's an interesting idea. Being private means that there's no need to implement a system for billing the electricity too. </p><p> But then again, what provides the electricity? If it's more fossil fuels, then it's not being green; it's cutting diesel costs. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So this is like a train that goes on roads .
But instead of having electricity all throughout the rails , it has them only on some tracks .
And oh , if there 's a red light , bye-bye , you 're dead .
What I think it 'd do instead is be like a hybrid that has the ability to recharge at every bus stop .
But I think it 's an interesting idea .
Being private means that there 's no need to implement a system for billing the electricity too .
But then again , what provides the electricity ?
If it 's more fossil fuels , then it 's not being green ; it 's cutting diesel costs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> So this is like a train that goes on roads.
But instead of having electricity all throughout the rails, it has them only on some tracks.
And oh, if there's a red light, bye-bye, you're dead.
What I think it'd do instead is be like a hybrid that has the ability to recharge at every bus stop.
But I think it's an interesting idea.
Being private means that there's no need to implement a system for billing the electricity too.
But then again, what provides the electricity?
If it's more fossil fuels, then it's not being green; it's cutting diesel costs. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802609</id>
	<title>Re:Title goes here</title>
	<author>quanticle</author>
	<datestamp>1255960080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What I think it'd do instead is be like a hybrid that has the ability to recharge at every bus stop.</p></div><p>That's exactly the sort of thing this system does.  Each stop has a set of overhead lines that allow the bus to recharge its capacitors enough to get to the next stop.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>But then again, what provides the electricity? If it's more fossil fuels, then it's not being green; it's cutting diesel costs.</p> </div><p>From the summary: "Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet [to charge an ultracapacitor], it generates a third of the carbon dioxide of diesel."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I think it 'd do instead is be like a hybrid that has the ability to recharge at every bus stop.That 's exactly the sort of thing this system does .
Each stop has a set of overhead lines that allow the bus to recharge its capacitors enough to get to the next stop.But then again , what provides the electricity ?
If it 's more fossil fuels , then it 's not being green ; it 's cutting diesel costs .
From the summary : " Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet [ to charge an ultracapacitor ] , it generates a third of the carbon dioxide of diesel .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I think it'd do instead is be like a hybrid that has the ability to recharge at every bus stop.That's exactly the sort of thing this system does.
Each stop has a set of overhead lines that allow the bus to recharge its capacitors enough to get to the next stop.But then again, what provides the electricity?
If it's more fossil fuels, then it's not being green; it's cutting diesel costs.
From the summary: "Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet [to charge an ultracapacitor], it generates a third of the carbon dioxide of diesel.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804029</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>LordLimecat</author>
	<datestamp>1255972140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Anytime the words "paradigm shift" appear in an article (like the one you linked) alarm bells start going off.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anytime the words " paradigm shift " appear in an article ( like the one you linked ) alarm bells start going off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anytime the words "paradigm shift" appear in an article (like the one you linked) alarm bells start going off.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802539</id>
	<title>What if the bus has to detour</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255959720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>or becomes stuck in traffic?  Is there a backup gas engine?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>or becomes stuck in traffic ?
Is there a backup gas engine ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>or becomes stuck in traffic?
Is there a backup gas engine?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29815151</id>
	<title>Re:That Green Tech? Will be Developed in China...</title>
	<author>hackingbear</author>
	<datestamp>1256035380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, Chinese companies (and governments) make green energy products because there's where the money is now. In fact, the central government is trying to <a href="http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-10/15/content\_12242072.htm" title="xinhuanet.com">overcapacity in solar/wind energy sectors</a> [xinhuanet.com]. The US is still a leader, not only in technology, but in exploring new business opportunities. China acts very fast, but they are always in catch-up mode in the sense.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , Chinese companies ( and governments ) make green energy products because there 's where the money is now .
In fact , the central government is trying to overcapacity in solar/wind energy sectors [ xinhuanet.com ] .
The US is still a leader , not only in technology , but in exploring new business opportunities .
China acts very fast , but they are always in catch-up mode in the sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, Chinese companies (and governments) make green energy products because there's where the money is now.
In fact, the central government is trying to overcapacity in solar/wind energy sectors [xinhuanet.com].
The US is still a leader, not only in technology, but in exploring new business opportunities.
China acts very fast, but they are always in catch-up mode in the sense.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803019</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803951</id>
	<title>Re:What happens in a traffic jam?</title>
	<author>EvilIdler</author>
	<datestamp>1255971360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here in Europe, we have bus lanes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in Europe , we have bus lanes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in Europe, we have bus lanes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29806897</id>
	<title>I must be tired</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256048940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I read the title as "Ultravelociraptor bus charges at each stop"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I read the title as " Ultravelociraptor bus charges at each stop "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read the title as "Ultravelociraptor bus charges at each stop"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29807353</id>
	<title>Don't know about big UltraCaps,</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256050860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>but where I work we deal with quarter sized ones, and they are quite temperature sensitive, in fact on the circuit boards we make we expect them to be the first thing to break down due to thermal problems.</p><p>Fortunately we are only using them as a back-up power supply for when the device suddenly loses power, so if they break down under normal conditions we can send a warning without losing anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>but where I work we deal with quarter sized ones , and they are quite temperature sensitive , in fact on the circuit boards we make we expect them to be the first thing to break down due to thermal problems.Fortunately we are only using them as a back-up power supply for when the device suddenly loses power , so if they break down under normal conditions we can send a warning without losing anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but where I work we deal with quarter sized ones, and they are quite temperature sensitive, in fact on the circuit boards we make we expect them to be the first thing to break down due to thermal problems.Fortunately we are only using them as a back-up power supply for when the device suddenly loses power, so if they break down under normal conditions we can send a warning without losing anything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29810021</id>
	<title>Re:one point missed, tech lifespan</title>
	<author>v1</author>
	<datestamp>1256060100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Note: 4,0000 amps at 480 volts is what is required to move a electric subway car. e</i></p><p>(we'll assume you mean 4,000 amps, not 40,000)</p><p>watts=amps x volts so that's 1920kW (1.9mW)</p><p>HP=kW/.746 so that's about 2500HP.  I hope it doesn't take anywhere near that kind of engine to move a bus unless you're trying to drive it at 250mph or something.</p><p>A bus can get by on what, 500HP?  1/5 of that?  less?  I don't have any idea what HP engine a bus typically has.  And if it's going to be running new tech we can assume it's going to be made of light materials and composites to maximize efficiency so it's no greyhound.</p><p>Capacitors are also a lot lighter than lead acid batteries by volume so that helps with efficiency.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Note : 4,0000 amps at 480 volts is what is required to move a electric subway car .
e ( we 'll assume you mean 4,000 amps , not 40,000 ) watts = amps x volts so that 's 1920kW ( 1.9mW ) HP = kW/.746 so that 's about 2500HP .
I hope it does n't take anywhere near that kind of engine to move a bus unless you 're trying to drive it at 250mph or something.A bus can get by on what , 500HP ?
1/5 of that ?
less ? I do n't have any idea what HP engine a bus typically has .
And if it 's going to be running new tech we can assume it 's going to be made of light materials and composites to maximize efficiency so it 's no greyhound.Capacitors are also a lot lighter than lead acid batteries by volume so that helps with efficiency .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Note: 4,0000 amps at 480 volts is what is required to move a electric subway car.
e(we'll assume you mean 4,000 amps, not 40,000)watts=amps x volts so that's 1920kW (1.9mW)HP=kW/.746 so that's about 2500HP.
I hope it doesn't take anywhere near that kind of engine to move a bus unless you're trying to drive it at 250mph or something.A bus can get by on what, 500HP?
1/5 of that?
less?  I don't have any idea what HP engine a bus typically has.
And if it's going to be running new tech we can assume it's going to be made of light materials and composites to maximize efficiency so it's no greyhound.Capacitors are also a lot lighter than lead acid batteries by volume so that helps with efficiency.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803877</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802573</id>
	<title>Re:soundes extremely dangerous</title>
	<author>Scrameustache</author>
	<datestamp>1255959900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>if that cap explodes, i could see it being very very bad.</p></div><p>If the fuel tank explodes...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>if that cap explodes , i could see it being very very bad.If the fuel tank explodes.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if that cap explodes, i could see it being very very bad.If the fuel tank explodes...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802915</id>
	<title>one point missed, tech lifespan</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255962660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Last I checked, capacitors have a <i>very</i> long lifespan, many many years compared to what, 5-10 for lead acid and lithium ion.  They don't get memory, their performance doesn't degrade over time.  And unlike lead acid, they don't mind the vibrations and jolts of being in a vehicle.  I'm not aware of any severe temp restrictions on them either - I know for certain that hotter areas of the country have to have different kinds of batteries because of how heat kills batteries. (moreso than cold)</p><p>So that makes them cheaper to run since you don't have to change out batteries for many thousands of dollars every 5-7 years like you do on the hybrid cars.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Last I checked , capacitors have a very long lifespan , many many years compared to what , 5-10 for lead acid and lithium ion .
They do n't get memory , their performance does n't degrade over time .
And unlike lead acid , they do n't mind the vibrations and jolts of being in a vehicle .
I 'm not aware of any severe temp restrictions on them either - I know for certain that hotter areas of the country have to have different kinds of batteries because of how heat kills batteries .
( moreso than cold ) So that makes them cheaper to run since you do n't have to change out batteries for many thousands of dollars every 5-7 years like you do on the hybrid cars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last I checked, capacitors have a very long lifespan, many many years compared to what, 5-10 for lead acid and lithium ion.
They don't get memory, their performance doesn't degrade over time.
And unlike lead acid, they don't mind the vibrations and jolts of being in a vehicle.
I'm not aware of any severe temp restrictions on them either - I know for certain that hotter areas of the country have to have different kinds of batteries because of how heat kills batteries.
(moreso than cold)So that makes them cheaper to run since you don't have to change out batteries for many thousands of dollars every 5-7 years like you do on the hybrid cars.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803753</id>
	<title>How......</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255969380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet [to charge an ultracapacitor], it generates a third of the carbon dioxide of diesel.'"<br> <br>

Petroleum diesel <b>C16H34</b> or <b>C14H30</b> <br>
Coal Errrrrr <b>C</b> with variable trace quantities of  <b>S</b>, <b>H</b>, <b>O</b> and <b>N</b>. <br>

Subcritical fossil fuel power plants can achieve 36&ndash;40\% efficiency. Supercritical designs have efficiencies in the low to mid 40\% range, with new "ultra critical" designs using pressures of 4,400 psi (30 MPa) and dual stage reheat reaching about 48\% efficiency. <br> <br>

Ideal diesel efficiency of 56\%, but lets stay sane, I keep hearing more along the lines of 35\% (Probably BS but real numbers have been banished/obfuscated/hidden somewhere)<br>
<br>
Factor in 15\% to 50\% (extreme) grid transmission loss, and (ops) 5\% to 10\% electric motor loss.<br> <br>

Love the idea of a Ultra Capacitor for a Hybrid, just stop saying silly things. Less <b>CO2</b>, you're funny.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet [ to charge an ultracapacitor ] , it generates a third of the carbon dioxide of diesel .
' " Petroleum diesel C16H34 or C14H30 Coal Errrrrr C with variable trace quantities of S , H , O and N . Subcritical fossil fuel power plants can achieve 36    40 \ % efficiency .
Supercritical designs have efficiencies in the low to mid 40 \ % range , with new " ultra critical " designs using pressures of 4,400 psi ( 30 MPa ) and dual stage reheat reaching about 48 \ % efficiency .
Ideal diesel efficiency of 56 \ % , but lets stay sane , I keep hearing more along the lines of 35 \ % ( Probably BS but real numbers have been banished/obfuscated/hidden somewhere ) Factor in 15 \ % to 50 \ % ( extreme ) grid transmission loss , and ( ops ) 5 \ % to 10 \ % electric motor loss .
Love the idea of a Ultra Capacitor for a Hybrid , just stop saying silly things .
Less CO2 , you 're funny .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet [to charge an ultracapacitor], it generates a third of the carbon dioxide of diesel.
'" 

Petroleum diesel C16H34 or C14H30 
Coal Errrrrr C with variable trace quantities of  S, H, O and N. 

Subcritical fossil fuel power plants can achieve 36–40\% efficiency.
Supercritical designs have efficiencies in the low to mid 40\% range, with new "ultra critical" designs using pressures of 4,400 psi (30 MPa) and dual stage reheat reaching about 48\% efficiency.
Ideal diesel efficiency of 56\%, but lets stay sane, I keep hearing more along the lines of 35\% (Probably BS but real numbers have been banished/obfuscated/hidden somewhere)

Factor in 15\% to 50\% (extreme) grid transmission loss, and (ops) 5\% to 10\% electric motor loss.
Love the idea of a Ultra Capacitor for a Hybrid, just stop saying silly things.
Less CO2, you're funny.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29809191</id>
	<title>Inductance and dielectric  limits current</title>
	<author>Kupfernigk</author>
	<datestamp>1256057400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a common misconception. Capacitors have significant inductance (have to be specially designed not to) and as everybody knows the rate of change of current is limited by the driving voltage and the inductance. As inductance does not convert current to heat (unlike resistance), putting inductance in a capacitor array does not waste energy like resistive limiting would. The converters that produce constant current from the array to drive the motors will themselves use inductors as part of the electronics. Also, there is a limited rate at which charge can move off the dielectric in ultracapacitors. Fancy dielectrics like barium titanate have much lower charge mobility than, say, polypropylene which stores practically no energy in the dielectric at all.<p>If you doubt this, there is a simple experiment you can do. Find an old high voltage electrolytic capacitor. Charge to a few hundred volts (if you don't know how to do this you should not be doing it.) Then discharge it with a suitable insulated screwdriver, but don't keep the screwdriver on too long. You will get a bang. A check with a voltmeter will reveal residual charge on the capacitor, in fact it may still be unsafe to handle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a common misconception .
Capacitors have significant inductance ( have to be specially designed not to ) and as everybody knows the rate of change of current is limited by the driving voltage and the inductance .
As inductance does not convert current to heat ( unlike resistance ) , putting inductance in a capacitor array does not waste energy like resistive limiting would .
The converters that produce constant current from the array to drive the motors will themselves use inductors as part of the electronics .
Also , there is a limited rate at which charge can move off the dielectric in ultracapacitors .
Fancy dielectrics like barium titanate have much lower charge mobility than , say , polypropylene which stores practically no energy in the dielectric at all.If you doubt this , there is a simple experiment you can do .
Find an old high voltage electrolytic capacitor .
Charge to a few hundred volts ( if you do n't know how to do this you should not be doing it .
) Then discharge it with a suitable insulated screwdriver , but do n't keep the screwdriver on too long .
You will get a bang .
A check with a voltmeter will reveal residual charge on the capacitor , in fact it may still be unsafe to handle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a common misconception.
Capacitors have significant inductance (have to be specially designed not to) and as everybody knows the rate of change of current is limited by the driving voltage and the inductance.
As inductance does not convert current to heat (unlike resistance), putting inductance in a capacitor array does not waste energy like resistive limiting would.
The converters that produce constant current from the array to drive the motors will themselves use inductors as part of the electronics.
Also, there is a limited rate at which charge can move off the dielectric in ultracapacitors.
Fancy dielectrics like barium titanate have much lower charge mobility than, say, polypropylene which stores practically no energy in the dielectric at all.If you doubt this, there is a simple experiment you can do.
Find an old high voltage electrolytic capacitor.
Charge to a few hundred volts (if you don't know how to do this you should not be doing it.
) Then discharge it with a suitable insulated screwdriver, but don't keep the screwdriver on too long.
You will get a bang.
A check with a voltmeter will reveal residual charge on the capacitor, in fact it may still be unsafe to handle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803877</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802965</id>
	<title>I got your range problem solved right here:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255963020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fisher Price figured it out years ago.<br>When the batteries dies, replace them.</p><p>Make the power pack standardized and quickly swappable.</p><p>You're welcome.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fisher Price figured it out years ago.When the batteries dies , replace them.Make the power pack standardized and quickly swappable.You 're welcome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fisher Price figured it out years ago.When the batteries dies, replace them.Make the power pack standardized and quickly swappable.You're welcome.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803183</id>
	<title>Re:We've been doing this for years</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255964520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"How efficient are regenerative brakes?"</p><p>This is a non-useful question, since all non-regenerative brakes are 0\% efficient.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" How efficient are regenerative brakes ?
" This is a non-useful question , since all non-regenerative brakes are 0 \ % efficient .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"How efficient are regenerative brakes?
"This is a non-useful question, since all non-regenerative brakes are 0\% efficient.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802687</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29814283</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>Dare nMc</author>
	<datestamp>1256032320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with  biryokumaru.  FYI The diesel's output shaft peak torque is way higher than the electric drives peak output shaft torque.<br>IMHO the major advantages are:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) infinite number of gear ratios can keep the engine in peak efficiency without needing a separate gear for every possible sustained speed.  Major advantage for emissions, you don't have to ever lug a engine to make up for a non-ideal gear ratio.  You can avoid spending any time at a poor pollution engine speed/load combination.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) traction control is a huge deal on locomotive (poor traction for metal on metal also low percentage of total loaded weight on drive axles), electric drive can instantly change torques independently to each motor, Capacitors average this out to the engine.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 3) braking, you can use the wheel motors to dump lots of energy to a fairly simple device (super-sized hair dryer like metal strips and a cooling fan)  That does not wear out like all other simple braking devices.  Also traction control on braking is better performance than most ABS systems.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 4) one to many transmission, it is simpler to split power equally from 1 source to 8 motors with electric.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with biryokumaru .
FYI The diesel 's output shaft peak torque is way higher than the electric drives peak output shaft torque.IMHO the major advantages are :     1 ) infinite number of gear ratios can keep the engine in peak efficiency without needing a separate gear for every possible sustained speed .
Major advantage for emissions , you do n't have to ever lug a engine to make up for a non-ideal gear ratio .
You can avoid spending any time at a poor pollution engine speed/load combination .
    2 ) traction control is a huge deal on locomotive ( poor traction for metal on metal also low percentage of total loaded weight on drive axles ) , electric drive can instantly change torques independently to each motor , Capacitors average this out to the engine .
    3 ) braking , you can use the wheel motors to dump lots of energy to a fairly simple device ( super-sized hair dryer like metal strips and a cooling fan ) That does not wear out like all other simple braking devices .
Also traction control on braking is better performance than most ABS systems .
    4 ) one to many transmission , it is simpler to split power equally from 1 source to 8 motors with electric .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with  biryokumaru.
FYI The diesel's output shaft peak torque is way higher than the electric drives peak output shaft torque.IMHO the major advantages are:
    1) infinite number of gear ratios can keep the engine in peak efficiency without needing a separate gear for every possible sustained speed.
Major advantage for emissions, you don't have to ever lug a engine to make up for a non-ideal gear ratio.
You can avoid spending any time at a poor pollution engine speed/load combination.
    2) traction control is a huge deal on locomotive (poor traction for metal on metal also low percentage of total loaded weight on drive axles), electric drive can instantly change torques independently to each motor, Capacitors average this out to the engine.
    3) braking, you can use the wheel motors to dump lots of energy to a fairly simple device (super-sized hair dryer like metal strips and a cooling fan)  That does not wear out like all other simple braking devices.
Also traction control on braking is better performance than most ABS systems.
    4) one to many transmission, it is simpler to split power equally from 1 source to 8 motors with electric.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29808203</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802607</id>
	<title>Coal power plant</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255960080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet"</p><p>How funny, I'd make a big bet that it is located in China.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet " How funny , I 'd make a big bet that it is located in China .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Even if you use the dirtiest coal plant on the planet"How funny, I'd make a big bet that it is located in China.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29806527</id>
	<title>POW</title>
	<author>Legion303</author>
	<datestamp>1256047140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't put your tongue across the terminals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't put your tongue across the terminals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't put your tongue across the terminals.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804395</id>
	<title>Re:energy density</title>
	<author>jschen</author>
	<datestamp>1255977180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you have access to Angewandte Chemie, check out <a href="http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122511014/abstract" title="wiley.com">this review (free abstract)</a> [wiley.com] on hydrogen storage. In one of the first figures in the paper (not at work, forget offhand whether it was figure 1 or 2), it makes a comparison between diesel, hydrogen, and state of the art lithium batteries, considering both energy density and "fuel tank" requirements. Even though the authors are very much pro-hydrogen, the figure is very much pro-diesel. Sure, the weight of the hydrogen is miniscule. But the tanks even under calculated ideal circumstances are rather heavy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have access to Angewandte Chemie , check out this review ( free abstract ) [ wiley.com ] on hydrogen storage .
In one of the first figures in the paper ( not at work , forget offhand whether it was figure 1 or 2 ) , it makes a comparison between diesel , hydrogen , and state of the art lithium batteries , considering both energy density and " fuel tank " requirements .
Even though the authors are very much pro-hydrogen , the figure is very much pro-diesel .
Sure , the weight of the hydrogen is miniscule .
But the tanks even under calculated ideal circumstances are rather heavy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have access to Angewandte Chemie, check out this review (free abstract) [wiley.com] on hydrogen storage.
In one of the first figures in the paper (not at work, forget offhand whether it was figure 1 or 2), it makes a comparison between diesel, hydrogen, and state of the art lithium batteries, considering both energy density and "fuel tank" requirements.
Even though the authors are very much pro-hydrogen, the figure is very much pro-diesel.
Sure, the weight of the hydrogen is miniscule.
But the tanks even under calculated ideal circumstances are rather heavy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804027</id>
	<title>Re:What happens in a traffic jam?</title>
	<author>falconwolf</author>
	<datestamp>1255972140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I imagine the streets of many major cities may wind up getting traffic jams very frequently</i></p><p>Have dedicated mass transit lanes.  In Minneapolis we have not just individual lanes only buses can use but entire roads.  There's a section of a road not far from me that cars can not drive on, it is only used for mass transit.</p><p>

Falcon</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I imagine the streets of many major cities may wind up getting traffic jams very frequentlyHave dedicated mass transit lanes .
In Minneapolis we have not just individual lanes only buses can use but entire roads .
There 's a section of a road not far from me that cars can not drive on , it is only used for mass transit .
Falcon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I imagine the streets of many major cities may wind up getting traffic jams very frequentlyHave dedicated mass transit lanes.
In Minneapolis we have not just individual lanes only buses can use but entire roads.
There's a section of a road not far from me that cars can not drive on, it is only used for mass transit.
Falcon</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29823725</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>BranMan</author>
	<datestamp>1256141460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's 2 more potential bad things that can happen with wheel motors that I can think of:<br><br>1) Your chance of a failure has quadrupled - since you have 4 engines instead of 1, and if any one fails, your car is dead / undriveable until you have it repaired / replaced.<br><br>2) If one of those 4 motors fails / seizes up - ever - at highway speeds, YOU'RE dead (and the car is too).<br><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The other problems with higher wheel weight - much higher, say it's 200 lb / wheel with a motor instead of 50 lb without - is not just that the ride is harsher.  When that much weight hits a bump or a pothole, it's going to move up or down accordingly.  That's a lot of weight moving in a direction you do not want it to go, and the only things that counter that are the suspension and the mass of the whole vehicle.  The suspension moves the wheel back where it needs to go, and moves the car in the opposite direction.  When the weight of a wheel becomes large relative to the car (say if the wheel is 200 lb and the car is 2000 lb), then the car can become airborne when you hit a bump at speed.  And while that wheel, or wheels, are airborne you have zilch - no acceleration, no braking, no steering, no control.  And bad things can happen.<br><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; No wonder after talking it over with some real car guys they quietly dropped it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's 2 more potential bad things that can happen with wheel motors that I can think of : 1 ) Your chance of a failure has quadrupled - since you have 4 engines instead of 1 , and if any one fails , your car is dead / undriveable until you have it repaired / replaced.2 ) If one of those 4 motors fails / seizes up - ever - at highway speeds , YOU 'RE dead ( and the car is too ) .
      The other problems with higher wheel weight - much higher , say it 's 200 lb / wheel with a motor instead of 50 lb without - is not just that the ride is harsher .
When that much weight hits a bump or a pothole , it 's going to move up or down accordingly .
That 's a lot of weight moving in a direction you do not want it to go , and the only things that counter that are the suspension and the mass of the whole vehicle .
The suspension moves the wheel back where it needs to go , and moves the car in the opposite direction .
When the weight of a wheel becomes large relative to the car ( say if the wheel is 200 lb and the car is 2000 lb ) , then the car can become airborne when you hit a bump at speed .
And while that wheel , or wheels , are airborne you have zilch - no acceleration , no braking , no steering , no control .
And bad things can happen .
      No wonder after talking it over with some real car guys they quietly dropped it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's 2 more potential bad things that can happen with wheel motors that I can think of:1) Your chance of a failure has quadrupled - since you have 4 engines instead of 1, and if any one fails, your car is dead / undriveable until you have it repaired / replaced.2) If one of those 4 motors fails / seizes up - ever - at highway speeds, YOU'RE dead (and the car is too).
      The other problems with higher wheel weight - much higher, say it's 200 lb / wheel with a motor instead of 50 lb without - is not just that the ride is harsher.
When that much weight hits a bump or a pothole, it's going to move up or down accordingly.
That's a lot of weight moving in a direction you do not want it to go, and the only things that counter that are the suspension and the mass of the whole vehicle.
The suspension moves the wheel back where it needs to go, and moves the car in the opposite direction.
When the weight of a wheel becomes large relative to the car (say if the wheel is 200 lb and the car is 2000 lb), then the car can become airborne when you hit a bump at speed.
And while that wheel, or wheels, are airborne you have zilch - no acceleration, no braking, no steering, no control.
And bad things can happen.
      No wonder after talking it over with some real car guys they quietly dropped it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802513</id>
	<title>Wow</title>
	<author>ShooterNeo</author>
	<datestamp>1255959480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pretty neat.  There's tons of other uses for this technology.  Among other things, ultra-capacitors are probably the way to go for non plug in hybrids.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pretty neat .
There 's tons of other uses for this technology .
Among other things , ultra-capacitors are probably the way to go for non plug in hybrids .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pretty neat.
There's tons of other uses for this technology.
Among other things, ultra-capacitors are probably the way to go for non plug in hybrids.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802431</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255959120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>nice tin foil hat.</htmltext>
<tokenext>nice tin foil hat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nice tin foil hat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802595</id>
	<title>What happens in a traffic jam?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255960020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I imagine the streets of many major cities may wind up getting traffic jams very frequently, so what happens if the bus gets stuck in such a one, and it takes an hour or more to get moving again (e.g. vehicular accident further down), or however long it takes to discharge the ultracapacitors?  I suppose it may be necessary to install a backup engine that runs on conventional fuel, possibly just to run a generator which will charge the ultracapacitors sufficiently to get to the next stop.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I imagine the streets of many major cities may wind up getting traffic jams very frequently , so what happens if the bus gets stuck in such a one , and it takes an hour or more to get moving again ( e.g .
vehicular accident further down ) , or however long it takes to discharge the ultracapacitors ?
I suppose it may be necessary to install a backup engine that runs on conventional fuel , possibly just to run a generator which will charge the ultracapacitors sufficiently to get to the next stop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I imagine the streets of many major cities may wind up getting traffic jams very frequently, so what happens if the bus gets stuck in such a one, and it takes an hour or more to get moving again (e.g.
vehicular accident further down), or however long it takes to discharge the ultracapacitors?
I suppose it may be necessary to install a backup engine that runs on conventional fuel, possibly just to run a generator which will charge the ultracapacitors sufficiently to get to the next stop.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803761</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>AaronW</author>
	<datestamp>1255969440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I actually asked a fellow I know who works at Tesla about wheel motors. He basically said it's a bad idea from a performance and handling point of view. The additional weight in the wheels makes the suspension less effective and means that the effect of going over a bump will be a lot harsher. Besides, he said it also would add a lot to the cost since now instead of one motor you need two or four, as well as two or four inverters and a lot more complicated control software. This also would add more weight since each motor needs its own set of magnets and housing. Cooling can also be a problem. It's much cheaper to just use a differential and axles which typically have very little loss with the advantage that the weight is shifted to the car body. It also makes it easy to do things like water cooling for the motor. I suppose one could still use multiple motors located in the body and use axles to get rid of all of the mass in the wheels, but it still adds a lot of unnecessary complexity to the control system and additional cost and less reliability.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually asked a fellow I know who works at Tesla about wheel motors .
He basically said it 's a bad idea from a performance and handling point of view .
The additional weight in the wheels makes the suspension less effective and means that the effect of going over a bump will be a lot harsher .
Besides , he said it also would add a lot to the cost since now instead of one motor you need two or four , as well as two or four inverters and a lot more complicated control software .
This also would add more weight since each motor needs its own set of magnets and housing .
Cooling can also be a problem .
It 's much cheaper to just use a differential and axles which typically have very little loss with the advantage that the weight is shifted to the car body .
It also makes it easy to do things like water cooling for the motor .
I suppose one could still use multiple motors located in the body and use axles to get rid of all of the mass in the wheels , but it still adds a lot of unnecessary complexity to the control system and additional cost and less reliability .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I actually asked a fellow I know who works at Tesla about wheel motors.
He basically said it's a bad idea from a performance and handling point of view.
The additional weight in the wheels makes the suspension less effective and means that the effect of going over a bump will be a lot harsher.
Besides, he said it also would add a lot to the cost since now instead of one motor you need two or four, as well as two or four inverters and a lot more complicated control software.
This also would add more weight since each motor needs its own set of magnets and housing.
Cooling can also be a problem.
It's much cheaper to just use a differential and axles which typically have very little loss with the advantage that the weight is shifted to the car body.
It also makes it easy to do things like water cooling for the motor.
I suppose one could still use multiple motors located in the body and use axles to get rid of all of the mass in the wheels, but it still adds a lot of unnecessary complexity to the control system and additional cost and less reliability.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802863</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803707</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>Michael Woodhams</author>
	<datestamp>1255968900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric\_car" title="wikipedia.org">Wikipedia</a> [wikipedia.org] says "Electric vehicles can also use a direct motor-to-wheel configuration which increases the amount of available power. Having multiple motors connected directly to the wheels allows for each of the wheels to be used for both propulsion and as braking systems, thereby increasing traction. In some cases, the motor can be housed directly in the wheel, such as in the Whispering Wheel design, which lowers the vehicle's center of gravity and reduces the number of moving parts. When not fitted with an axle, differential, or transmission, electric vehicles have less drivetrain rotational inertia."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wikipedia [ wikipedia.org ] says " Electric vehicles can also use a direct motor-to-wheel configuration which increases the amount of available power .
Having multiple motors connected directly to the wheels allows for each of the wheels to be used for both propulsion and as braking systems , thereby increasing traction .
In some cases , the motor can be housed directly in the wheel , such as in the Whispering Wheel design , which lowers the vehicle 's center of gravity and reduces the number of moving parts .
When not fitted with an axle , differential , or transmission , electric vehicles have less drivetrain rotational inertia .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] says "Electric vehicles can also use a direct motor-to-wheel configuration which increases the amount of available power.
Having multiple motors connected directly to the wheels allows for each of the wheels to be used for both propulsion and as braking systems, thereby increasing traction.
In some cases, the motor can be housed directly in the wheel, such as in the Whispering Wheel design, which lowers the vehicle's center of gravity and reduces the number of moving parts.
When not fitted with an axle, differential, or transmission, electric vehicles have less drivetrain rotational inertia.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803261</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802849</id>
	<title>Cheaper?</title>
	<author>benjamindees</author>
	<datestamp>1255962060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The article just says that the bus itself is cheaper than a lithium-ion battery powered bus.  It doesn't sound like they are accounting for the entire charging system.  I can see how ultracapacitors would be useful for this case, since a bus is extremely heavy and basically stops every half mile.  Regenerative braking would wear out a lithium ion battery pack fairly quickly and wouldn't be as efficient.</p><p>Otherwise, I'm fairly skeptical that ultracapacitors are really that price-competitive with batteries.  Anyone want to try to convince me?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The article just says that the bus itself is cheaper than a lithium-ion battery powered bus .
It does n't sound like they are accounting for the entire charging system .
I can see how ultracapacitors would be useful for this case , since a bus is extremely heavy and basically stops every half mile .
Regenerative braking would wear out a lithium ion battery pack fairly quickly and would n't be as efficient.Otherwise , I 'm fairly skeptical that ultracapacitors are really that price-competitive with batteries .
Anyone want to try to convince me ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article just says that the bus itself is cheaper than a lithium-ion battery powered bus.
It doesn't sound like they are accounting for the entire charging system.
I can see how ultracapacitors would be useful for this case, since a bus is extremely heavy and basically stops every half mile.
Regenerative braking would wear out a lithium ion battery pack fairly quickly and wouldn't be as efficient.Otherwise, I'm fairly skeptical that ultracapacitors are really that price-competitive with batteries.
Anyone want to try to convince me?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803019</id>
	<title>That Green Tech? Will be Developed in China...</title>
	<author>netsharc</author>
	<datestamp>1255963380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/opinion/27friedman.html" title="nytimes.com">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/opinion/27friedman.html</a> [nytimes.com] -- basically, while in the US obstructionists are still yelling "climate change is a myth!", China is going green because it's realized it has poisoned its citizen enough. Look forward to them exporting their tech to the rest of the world...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/opinion/27friedman.html [ nytimes.com ] -- basically , while in the US obstructionists are still yelling " climate change is a myth !
" , China is going green because it 's realized it has poisoned its citizen enough .
Look forward to them exporting their tech to the rest of the world.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/opinion/27friedman.html [nytimes.com] -- basically, while in the US obstructionists are still yelling "climate change is a myth!
", China is going green because it's realized it has poisoned its citizen enough.
Look forward to them exporting their tech to the rest of the world...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802871</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1255962240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Conspiracy theories are popular among those who are more familiar with how Hollywood works than with how real life works."  Best quote about conspiracy theories I've heard in a long time. It was said about the birthers and the 9/11 conspiracy theorists.</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Conspiracy theories are popular among those who are more familiar with how Hollywood works than with how real life works .
" Best quote about conspiracy theories I 've heard in a long time .
It was said about the birthers and the 9/11 conspiracy theorists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Conspiracy theories are popular among those who are more familiar with how Hollywood works than with how real life works.
"  Best quote about conspiracy theories I've heard in a long time.
It was said about the birthers and the 9/11 conspiracy theorists.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804473</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>ravenshrike</author>
	<datestamp>1255978260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What happens when you bounce that thing off a Michigan pothole at 55mph? I'm guessing damned expensive repair job.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What happens when you bounce that thing off a Michigan pothole at 55mph ?
I 'm guessing damned expensive repair job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What happens when you bounce that thing off a Michigan pothole at 55mph?
I'm guessing damned expensive repair job.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802661</id>
	<title>PIloting a Bus</title>
	<author>CopaceticOpus</author>
	<datestamp>1255960440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's nice that "A US company and its Chinese partner" are piloting the bus, but I think it would be much more interesting to know who designed and built it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's nice that " A US company and its Chinese partner " are piloting the bus , but I think it would be much more interesting to know who designed and built it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's nice that "A US company and its Chinese partner" are piloting the bus, but I think it would be much more interesting to know who designed and built it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803995</id>
	<title>Re:been saying this for years</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1255971720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>...hello electric sports cars that kick the shit out of petrol engines.</i></p><p>We're a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtkDHtZs8rI&amp;feature=related" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">getting there</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...hello electric sports cars that kick the shit out of petrol engines.We 're a getting there [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...hello electric sports cars that kick the shit out of petrol engines.We're a getting there [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802459</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802707</id>
	<title>Re:soundes extremely dangerous</title>
	<author>fiannaFailMan</author>
	<datestamp>1255960800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>isn't the voltage across ultracapacitors really large with a large charge? if that cap explodes, i could see it being very very bad.</p><p>also what about times when the bus doesn't need to pick up or drop of passengers? just stop the bus anyways?</p></div><p>Don't they stop for traffic lights anyway? Don't see how much difference that'd make.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>is n't the voltage across ultracapacitors really large with a large charge ?
if that cap explodes , i could see it being very very bad.also what about times when the bus does n't need to pick up or drop of passengers ?
just stop the bus anyways ? Do n't they stop for traffic lights anyway ?
Do n't see how much difference that 'd make .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>isn't the voltage across ultracapacitors really large with a large charge?
if that cap explodes, i could see it being very very bad.also what about times when the bus doesn't need to pick up or drop of passengers?
just stop the bus anyways?Don't they stop for traffic lights anyway?
Don't see how much difference that'd make.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802651</id>
	<title>Re:What happens in a traffic jam?</title>
	<author>Xeth</author>
	<datestamp>1255960440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Electric motors don't idle. Kill the climate control if something goes grievously wrong.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Electric motors do n't idle .
Kill the climate control if something goes grievously wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Electric motors don't idle.
Kill the climate control if something goes grievously wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802463</id>
	<title>I can see the design review meeting now...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255959300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Engineer: Sorry, the idea didn't pan out.  The battery works, but it's got no capacity.  Useless.</p><p>Marketing Guy:  What do you mean, no capacity?  It can't be zero if it works, right?</p><p>Engineer:  Sure, but it gets drained in seconds by any sort of circuit.</p><p>Marketing Guy:  They recharge as fast as they drain, right?</p><p>Engineer:  Yeah, sure. but...</p><p>Marketing Guy: "Recharges in under a minute".  Nothing on the market can match it.  When can we ship in volume?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Engineer : Sorry , the idea did n't pan out .
The battery works , but it 's got no capacity .
Useless.Marketing Guy : What do you mean , no capacity ?
It ca n't be zero if it works , right ? Engineer : Sure , but it gets drained in seconds by any sort of circuit.Marketing Guy : They recharge as fast as they drain , right ? Engineer : Yeah , sure .
but...Marketing Guy : " Recharges in under a minute " .
Nothing on the market can match it .
When can we ship in volume ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Engineer: Sorry, the idea didn't pan out.
The battery works, but it's got no capacity.
Useless.Marketing Guy:  What do you mean, no capacity?
It can't be zero if it works, right?Engineer:  Sure, but it gets drained in seconds by any sort of circuit.Marketing Guy:  They recharge as fast as they drain, right?Engineer:  Yeah, sure.
but...Marketing Guy: "Recharges in under a minute".
Nothing on the market can match it.
When can we ship in volume?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803725</id>
	<title>Re:been saying this for years</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1255969080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>the best advatage of UC's is they don't melt when you discharge a huge current as batteries do,</p></div><p>Um, the leads melt, and they definitely melt anything that short circuits them.  I remember accidentally melting pits into a screwdriver after charging a camera-flash capacitor.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the best advatage of UC 's is they do n't melt when you discharge a huge current as batteries do,Um , the leads melt , and they definitely melt anything that short circuits them .
I remember accidentally melting pits into a screwdriver after charging a camera-flash capacitor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the best advatage of UC's is they don't melt when you discharge a huge current as batteries do,Um, the leads melt, and they definitely melt anything that short circuits them.
I remember accidentally melting pits into a screwdriver after charging a camera-flash capacitor.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802459</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29810015</id>
	<title>Re:one point missed, tech lifespan</title>
	<author>smellsofbikes</author>
	<datestamp>1256060100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The capacitor lifetime depends on the design and what shortcuts the manufacturer took.  Old-fashioned dry caps, stuff like mica and ceramics, should last for hundreds of years.  Modern ultra-high-capacity electrolytic caps are often rated for less than 2000 hours -- one year, at 8 hours a day.  (Now, by 'lifetime', what they mean is that after that time, it will have less than 50\% of its original ability to hold charge.)  <a href="http://www.chemi-con.com/u7002/life\_ms.php" title="chemi-con.com">Here is a page</a> [chemi-con.com] discussing what environmental and duty characteristics will shorten an electrolytic cap's lifetime.  There are some really fabulous manufacturers out there, including chemi-con and particularly nichicon, but there are also some *horrible* manufacturers, whose caps will burst into flame.  I've seen a number of these, especially about 2 years ago when apparently someone got the wrong formulation for the electrolyte and a bunch of companies started cranking out caps based on that, which died really quickly.<p>
Basically, as is so often the case, the caps that don't really have that great an energy density have long lifetimes and great behavior across a wide range of temps, but the current crop of good energy density caps often show temperature dependent behavior and short, temp-dependent lifetimes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The capacitor lifetime depends on the design and what shortcuts the manufacturer took .
Old-fashioned dry caps , stuff like mica and ceramics , should last for hundreds of years .
Modern ultra-high-capacity electrolytic caps are often rated for less than 2000 hours -- one year , at 8 hours a day .
( Now , by 'lifetime ' , what they mean is that after that time , it will have less than 50 \ % of its original ability to hold charge .
) Here is a page [ chemi-con.com ] discussing what environmental and duty characteristics will shorten an electrolytic cap 's lifetime .
There are some really fabulous manufacturers out there , including chemi-con and particularly nichicon , but there are also some * horrible * manufacturers , whose caps will burst into flame .
I 've seen a number of these , especially about 2 years ago when apparently someone got the wrong formulation for the electrolyte and a bunch of companies started cranking out caps based on that , which died really quickly .
Basically , as is so often the case , the caps that do n't really have that great an energy density have long lifetimes and great behavior across a wide range of temps , but the current crop of good energy density caps often show temperature dependent behavior and short , temp-dependent lifetimes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The capacitor lifetime depends on the design and what shortcuts the manufacturer took.
Old-fashioned dry caps, stuff like mica and ceramics, should last for hundreds of years.
Modern ultra-high-capacity electrolytic caps are often rated for less than 2000 hours -- one year, at 8 hours a day.
(Now, by 'lifetime', what they mean is that after that time, it will have less than 50\% of its original ability to hold charge.
)  Here is a page [chemi-con.com] discussing what environmental and duty characteristics will shorten an electrolytic cap's lifetime.
There are some really fabulous manufacturers out there, including chemi-con and particularly nichicon, but there are also some *horrible* manufacturers, whose caps will burst into flame.
I've seen a number of these, especially about 2 years ago when apparently someone got the wrong formulation for the electrolyte and a bunch of companies started cranking out caps based on that, which died really quickly.
Basically, as is so often the case, the caps that don't really have that great an energy density have long lifetimes and great behavior across a wide range of temps, but the current crop of good energy density caps often show temperature dependent behavior and short, temp-dependent lifetimes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803925</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>timeOday</author>
	<datestamp>1255971060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That is interesting, because it seems like that's exactly what <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3m24bjkfg0#t=2m" title="youtube.com">traction control systems</a> [youtube.com] do, and specifically under highly dynamic handling conditions to boot.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That is interesting , because it seems like that 's exactly what traction control systems [ youtube.com ] do , and specifically under highly dynamic handling conditions to boot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is interesting, because it seems like that's exactly what traction control systems [youtube.com] do, and specifically under highly dynamic handling conditions to boot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803223</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804643</id>
	<title>Re:energy density</title>
	<author>fnj</author>
	<datestamp>1255981380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK, now state the energy-to-mass and energy-to-volume figures of the gasoline PLUS gas tank versus that of the hydrogen PLUS storage matrix. Fact is, petroleum or synfuel equivalent is the most volume-efficient storage mechanism for hydrogen yet devised - not even counting the contribution of the carbon content. One liter of gasoline contains a higher mass of hydrogen than one liter of liquid hydrogen.</p><p>State of the art hydrogen storage systems have a container mass 10x the mass of the contained hydrogen, versus around 0.1x for gasoline tanks. Compressing or liquefying the hydrogen saps a huge amount of the theoretical energy efficiency of the system.</p><p>When you add container weight, petroleum is the most MASS-efficient storage mechanism for hydrogen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , now state the energy-to-mass and energy-to-volume figures of the gasoline PLUS gas tank versus that of the hydrogen PLUS storage matrix .
Fact is , petroleum or synfuel equivalent is the most volume-efficient storage mechanism for hydrogen yet devised - not even counting the contribution of the carbon content .
One liter of gasoline contains a higher mass of hydrogen than one liter of liquid hydrogen.State of the art hydrogen storage systems have a container mass 10x the mass of the contained hydrogen , versus around 0.1x for gasoline tanks .
Compressing or liquefying the hydrogen saps a huge amount of the theoretical energy efficiency of the system.When you add container weight , petroleum is the most MASS-efficient storage mechanism for hydrogen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, now state the energy-to-mass and energy-to-volume figures of the gasoline PLUS gas tank versus that of the hydrogen PLUS storage matrix.
Fact is, petroleum or synfuel equivalent is the most volume-efficient storage mechanism for hydrogen yet devised - not even counting the contribution of the carbon content.
One liter of gasoline contains a higher mass of hydrogen than one liter of liquid hydrogen.State of the art hydrogen storage systems have a container mass 10x the mass of the contained hydrogen, versus around 0.1x for gasoline tanks.
Compressing or liquefying the hydrogen saps a huge amount of the theoretical energy efficiency of the system.When you add container weight, petroleum is the most MASS-efficient storage mechanism for hydrogen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802769</id>
	<title>Re:No, thanks</title>
	<author>Hadlock</author>
	<datestamp>1255961280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Today's XKCD is extremely topical:<br>
&nbsp; <br>http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bag\_check.png</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Today 's XKCD is extremely topical :   http : //imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bag \ _check.png</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Today's XKCD is extremely topical:
  http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bag\_check.png</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803199</id>
	<title>Re:soundes extremely dangerous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255964700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's no way to release 100\% of the energy in a diesel tank in a few seconds (diesel doesn't explode, it barely burns). Capacitors can release 100\% of their charge almost instantly if shorted (serious fireworks).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no way to release 100 \ % of the energy in a diesel tank in a few seconds ( diesel does n't explode , it barely burns ) .
Capacitors can release 100 \ % of their charge almost instantly if shorted ( serious fireworks ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no way to release 100\% of the energy in a diesel tank in a few seconds (diesel doesn't explode, it barely burns).
Capacitors can release 100\% of their charge almost instantly if shorted (serious fireworks).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802573</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803395</id>
	<title>Re:energy density</title>
	<author>ColaMan</author>
	<datestamp>1255966200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>or even hydrogen at 142MJ/kg and you start to get some idea of why people are excited about "the hydrogen economy".</i></p><p>Call me when there's a cheap way to store 30kg of hydrogen at STP in a form that can easily be used and stored onboard in a vehicle for at least 4 weeks without losses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>or even hydrogen at 142MJ/kg and you start to get some idea of why people are excited about " the hydrogen economy " .Call me when there 's a cheap way to store 30kg of hydrogen at STP in a form that can easily be used and stored onboard in a vehicle for at least 4 weeks without losses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>or even hydrogen at 142MJ/kg and you start to get some idea of why people are excited about "the hydrogen economy".Call me when there's a cheap way to store 30kg of hydrogen at STP in a form that can easily be used and stored onboard in a vehicle for at least 4 weeks without losses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803161</id>
	<title>EESTOR</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255964460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>will be doing just this IF they are real. And yes, it has been planned for this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>will be doing just this IF they are real .
And yes , it has been planned for this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>will be doing just this IF they are real.
And yes, it has been planned for this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804707</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1255982340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><blockquote><div><p>nice tin foil hat.</p></div></blockquote><p>Here's a real world example <a href="http://greentransportandenergy.blogspot.com/2009/03/great-importance-of-wheel-motors.html" title="blogspot.com">http://greentransportandenergy.blogspot.com/2009/03/great-importance-of-wheel-motors.html</a> [blogspot.com] <br>
&nbsp; <br>They had a working prototype, they approached Detroit to get their making-cars expertise... and the project gets quickly scrapped for no apparent reason.</p></div></blockquote><p>
&nbsp; <br>The problem being - your link fails to support your claim.  It explains how wonderful the invention could be, but doesn't mention Detroit at all.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>nice tin foil hat.Here 's a real world example http : //greentransportandenergy.blogspot.com/2009/03/great-importance-of-wheel-motors.html [ blogspot.com ]   They had a working prototype , they approached Detroit to get their making-cars expertise... and the project gets quickly scrapped for no apparent reason .
  The problem being - your link fails to support your claim .
It explains how wonderful the invention could be , but does n't mention Detroit at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nice tin foil hat.Here's a real world example http://greentransportandenergy.blogspot.com/2009/03/great-importance-of-wheel-motors.html [blogspot.com] 
  They had a working prototype, they approached Detroit to get their making-cars expertise... and the project gets quickly scrapped for no apparent reason.
  The problem being - your link fails to support your claim.
It explains how wonderful the invention could be, but doesn't mention Detroit at all.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29815901</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>HiThere</author>
	<datestamp>1256038800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some of his points sound like they could be reasonable.  Others sound like he's just dismissed the concept is is coming up with justifiers.  (I.e., I think that *I* can see ways to answer his objections.)  This makes me skeptical about the rest of his answers.</p><p>To be explicit, consider the claim that you now need two to four inverters.  There exist such things as DC electric motors, and they are no heavier or more expensive than AC motors.  That gets rid of the need for ANY inverters except to use with attached gadgets.  And I think that in cars those are already designed to operate on DC.  So no inverters needed at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of his points sound like they could be reasonable .
Others sound like he 's just dismissed the concept is is coming up with justifiers .
( I.e. , I think that * I * can see ways to answer his objections .
) This makes me skeptical about the rest of his answers.To be explicit , consider the claim that you now need two to four inverters .
There exist such things as DC electric motors , and they are no heavier or more expensive than AC motors .
That gets rid of the need for ANY inverters except to use with attached gadgets .
And I think that in cars those are already designed to operate on DC .
So no inverters needed at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of his points sound like they could be reasonable.
Others sound like he's just dismissed the concept is is coming up with justifiers.
(I.e., I think that *I* can see ways to answer his objections.
)  This makes me skeptical about the rest of his answers.To be explicit, consider the claim that you now need two to four inverters.
There exist such things as DC electric motors, and they are no heavier or more expensive than AC motors.
That gets rid of the need for ANY inverters except to use with attached gadgets.
And I think that in cars those are already designed to operate on DC.
So no inverters needed at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802593</id>
	<title>High potential</title>
	<author>icebike</author>
	<datestamp>1255960020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For urban locations where stops are seldom more than a block or two apart this makes for lower infrastructure costs, as no over-street trolly cables are needed.</p><p>The ability to alter routes would also be fairly flexible because you could tie into the power grid anywhere you need to add a station.</p><p>But the amount of power you need to deliver in a short time means that the stations have to have either the ability to acquire and store a massive charge in the between-bus intervals, (their own ultra-capacitors) or the grid inter-tie would really have to be massive enough to dump that much power into the bus in a couple minutes, for as many buses as you need to send down the line in rush hour.</p><p>A shorted capacitor might be fearsome fireworks display.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For urban locations where stops are seldom more than a block or two apart this makes for lower infrastructure costs , as no over-street trolly cables are needed.The ability to alter routes would also be fairly flexible because you could tie into the power grid anywhere you need to add a station.But the amount of power you need to deliver in a short time means that the stations have to have either the ability to acquire and store a massive charge in the between-bus intervals , ( their own ultra-capacitors ) or the grid inter-tie would really have to be massive enough to dump that much power into the bus in a couple minutes , for as many buses as you need to send down the line in rush hour.A shorted capacitor might be fearsome fireworks display .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For urban locations where stops are seldom more than a block or two apart this makes for lower infrastructure costs, as no over-street trolly cables are needed.The ability to alter routes would also be fairly flexible because you could tie into the power grid anywhere you need to add a station.But the amount of power you need to deliver in a short time means that the stations have to have either the ability to acquire and store a massive charge in the between-bus intervals, (their own ultra-capacitors) or the grid inter-tie would really have to be massive enough to dump that much power into the bus in a couple minutes, for as many buses as you need to send down the line in rush hour.A shorted capacitor might be fearsome fireworks display.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29805613</id>
	<title>Why not subway cars?</title>
	<author>bhmit1</author>
	<datestamp>1256038320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why build out the electric infrastructure at the bus stops when one already exists for the subway system?  I don't believe there's anything in the current system to do regenerative braking or store power in the cars.  So this would reduce the power requirements, eliminating the need to expand the electric capacity when adding more cars to the system.</p><p>Once the subway works, then consider building the bus based system, unless a flywheel and/or hydrogen are doing the job cheaper.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why build out the electric infrastructure at the bus stops when one already exists for the subway system ?
I do n't believe there 's anything in the current system to do regenerative braking or store power in the cars .
So this would reduce the power requirements , eliminating the need to expand the electric capacity when adding more cars to the system.Once the subway works , then consider building the bus based system , unless a flywheel and/or hydrogen are doing the job cheaper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why build out the electric infrastructure at the bus stops when one already exists for the subway system?
I don't believe there's anything in the current system to do regenerative braking or store power in the cars.
So this would reduce the power requirements, eliminating the need to expand the electric capacity when adding more cars to the system.Once the subway works, then consider building the bus based system, unless a flywheel and/or hydrogen are doing the job cheaper.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803297</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>dbIII</author>
	<datestamp>1255965540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>they approached Detroit to get their making-cars expertise</p></div></blockquote><p>There's the reason - even approaching LADA in Russia would give them more expertise these days.  Oddly enough the same companies do well elsewhere and the Detroit workers do well with short runs of designs from elsewhere.<br>To be realistic once good ideas hit bad management stupid things happen.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>they approached Detroit to get their making-cars expertiseThere 's the reason - even approaching LADA in Russia would give them more expertise these days .
Oddly enough the same companies do well elsewhere and the Detroit workers do well with short runs of designs from elsewhere.To be realistic once good ideas hit bad management stupid things happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they approached Detroit to get their making-cars expertiseThere's the reason - even approaching LADA in Russia would give them more expertise these days.
Oddly enough the same companies do well elsewhere and the Detroit workers do well with short runs of designs from elsewhere.To be realistic once good ideas hit bad management stupid things happen.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804413</id>
	<title>...except the one that makes the busses</title>
	<author>GPool</author>
	<datestamp>1255977420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Page 2 of TFA:</p><blockquote><div><p>Buses in the Shanghai pilot are made by Germantown, TN-based <a href="http://www.foton-america.com/" title="foton-america.com" rel="nofollow">Foton America Bus Co</a> [foton-america.com], which uses ultracapacitors manufactured by Shanghai Aowei.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Page 2 of TFA : Buses in the Shanghai pilot are made by Germantown , TN-based Foton America Bus Co [ foton-america.com ] , which uses ultracapacitors manufactured by Shanghai Aowei .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Page 2 of TFA:Buses in the Shanghai pilot are made by Germantown, TN-based Foton America Bus Co [foton-america.com], which uses ultracapacitors manufactured by Shanghai Aowei.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29807879</id>
	<title>Re:one point missed, tech lifespan</title>
	<author>v1</author>
	<datestamp>1256052960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>One thing to keep in mind is that capacitors are designed to pretty much discharge all at once in a blinding flash whereas the internal resistance of a battery will limit the current to something that might take at least minutes to discharge, if not longer</i></p><p>Although batteries have a larger internal resistance, that's not the dominating effect.  Lead acid batteries use a chemical change to replenish the charge on the plates, an effect that occurs over time. (faster discharge batteries usually suffer from heat issues due to the chemical reaction required being sped up and thus releasing more heat)  They are "constant voltage" supplies.  As the voltage is sipped off the plates, the chemicals in the battery replenish the voltage and return the plates to their previous voltage.  This process continues until the chemical potential is exhausted, at which point plate voltage rapidly drops.</p><p>Caps on the other hand store massive amounts of charge, and have little means of replenishing it once taken.  Because of this when some power is tapped from the cap, it's not replenished, and the voltage drops every time.</p><p>Because of this, caps' storage potential is a factor of how high of a voltage you can pack into them, combined with how much charge.  You make the cap retain a greater charge by increasing its size, it's about 1:1 gain.  By using better insulators, you can increase the voltage without increasing the size, so most high energy caps are high voltage so they can be small.  This is not a requirement however.</p><p>Lets not forget it's <i>current</i> that kills, not <i>voltage</i>.  All the voltage does is make an easier path for the current to take to get you.  There's <b>more</b> than enough current in a single car battery to punch your ticket.  It's just that 12 volts is not enough under most circumstances to get the current running at any quantity through your body. (overcome skin resistance)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One thing to keep in mind is that capacitors are designed to pretty much discharge all at once in a blinding flash whereas the internal resistance of a battery will limit the current to something that might take at least minutes to discharge , if not longerAlthough batteries have a larger internal resistance , that 's not the dominating effect .
Lead acid batteries use a chemical change to replenish the charge on the plates , an effect that occurs over time .
( faster discharge batteries usually suffer from heat issues due to the chemical reaction required being sped up and thus releasing more heat ) They are " constant voltage " supplies .
As the voltage is sipped off the plates , the chemicals in the battery replenish the voltage and return the plates to their previous voltage .
This process continues until the chemical potential is exhausted , at which point plate voltage rapidly drops.Caps on the other hand store massive amounts of charge , and have little means of replenishing it once taken .
Because of this when some power is tapped from the cap , it 's not replenished , and the voltage drops every time.Because of this , caps ' storage potential is a factor of how high of a voltage you can pack into them , combined with how much charge .
You make the cap retain a greater charge by increasing its size , it 's about 1 : 1 gain .
By using better insulators , you can increase the voltage without increasing the size , so most high energy caps are high voltage so they can be small .
This is not a requirement however.Lets not forget it 's current that kills , not voltage .
All the voltage does is make an easier path for the current to take to get you .
There 's more than enough current in a single car battery to punch your ticket .
It 's just that 12 volts is not enough under most circumstances to get the current running at any quantity through your body .
( overcome skin resistance )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One thing to keep in mind is that capacitors are designed to pretty much discharge all at once in a blinding flash whereas the internal resistance of a battery will limit the current to something that might take at least minutes to discharge, if not longerAlthough batteries have a larger internal resistance, that's not the dominating effect.
Lead acid batteries use a chemical change to replenish the charge on the plates, an effect that occurs over time.
(faster discharge batteries usually suffer from heat issues due to the chemical reaction required being sped up and thus releasing more heat)  They are "constant voltage" supplies.
As the voltage is sipped off the plates, the chemicals in the battery replenish the voltage and return the plates to their previous voltage.
This process continues until the chemical potential is exhausted, at which point plate voltage rapidly drops.Caps on the other hand store massive amounts of charge, and have little means of replenishing it once taken.
Because of this when some power is tapped from the cap, it's not replenished, and the voltage drops every time.Because of this, caps' storage potential is a factor of how high of a voltage you can pack into them, combined with how much charge.
You make the cap retain a greater charge by increasing its size, it's about 1:1 gain.
By using better insulators, you can increase the voltage without increasing the size, so most high energy caps are high voltage so they can be small.
This is not a requirement however.Lets not forget it's current that kills, not voltage.
All the voltage does is make an easier path for the current to take to get you.
There's more than enough current in a single car battery to punch your ticket.
It's just that 12 volts is not enough under most circumstances to get the current running at any quantity through your body.
(overcome skin resistance)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803877</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803863</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>DoofusOfDeath</author>
	<datestamp>1255970520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OMG, have you just used the Chewbacca Defense?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OMG , have you just used the Chewbacca Defense ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OMG, have you just used the Chewbacca Defense?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803261</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802725</id>
	<title>If this turns out to be viable...</title>
	<author>rcolbert</author>
	<datestamp>1255960920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...there's no reason why every rental car shuttle bus and parking shuttle bus at every airport shouldn't be converted post-haste.  Then to prove a point, let's go ahead and power them with the dirtiest coal plant we can find to see if the claims are true.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...there 's no reason why every rental car shuttle bus and parking shuttle bus at every airport should n't be converted post-haste .
Then to prove a point , let 's go ahead and power them with the dirtiest coal plant we can find to see if the claims are true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...there's no reason why every rental car shuttle bus and parking shuttle bus at every airport shouldn't be converted post-haste.
Then to prove a point, let's go ahead and power them with the dirtiest coal plant we can find to see if the claims are true.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29809009</id>
	<title>Re:Next model</title>
	<author>smithmc</author>
	<datestamp>1256056860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But will it go 88 miles per hour?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But will it go 88 miles per hour ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But will it go 88 miles per hour?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803527</id>
	<title>Re:No US company involved here....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255967340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>perhaps you should work on catching up?</p><p>the US doesn't build things anymore; when you stop designing and inventing things as well, you'll be truly finished.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>perhaps you should work on catching up ? the US does n't build things anymore ; when you stop designing and inventing things as well , you 'll be truly finished .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>perhaps you should work on catching up?the US doesn't build things anymore; when you stop designing and inventing things as well, you'll be truly finished.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803241</id>
	<title>how are electric trolleys not better</title>
	<author>Dan667</author>
	<datestamp>1255965000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They went to the trouble to dog electric trolleys in the article, but why not just make the trolleys 40\% lighter and add regenerative breaking?  At least do an apples to apples comparison between the two.  I am wondering since you need to store the energy if line loss or high voltage would be a problem with the ultracapacitor.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They went to the trouble to dog electric trolleys in the article , but why not just make the trolleys 40 \ % lighter and add regenerative breaking ?
At least do an apples to apples comparison between the two .
I am wondering since you need to store the energy if line loss or high voltage would be a problem with the ultracapacitor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They went to the trouble to dog electric trolleys in the article, but why not just make the trolleys 40\% lighter and add regenerative breaking?
At least do an apples to apples comparison between the two.
I am wondering since you need to store the energy if line loss or high voltage would be a problem with the ultracapacitor.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803053</id>
	<title>Re:No, thanks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255963680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeh. Screw this Flinstone/Green-tech crap. Toss a big ol' twin turbo v-12 diesel in the ass with about 900 ft. lbs. of torque so I can do wheelies on the way to work (and they can hear me coming for miles...)</p><p>Commute like ya' got a pair...</p><p>- Green is the new Red.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeh .
Screw this Flinstone/Green-tech crap .
Toss a big ol ' twin turbo v-12 diesel in the ass with about 900 ft. lbs. of torque so I can do wheelies on the way to work ( and they can hear me coming for miles... ) Commute like ya ' got a pair...- Green is the new Red .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeh.
Screw this Flinstone/Green-tech crap.
Toss a big ol' twin turbo v-12 diesel in the ass with about 900 ft. lbs. of torque so I can do wheelies on the way to work (and they can hear me coming for miles...)Commute like ya' got a pair...- Green is the new Red.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804175</id>
	<title>Re:energy density</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255974060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Considering the trade-off's between cost, energy density and service life with service life being one of the biggest killers (energy savings are lost in replacement and disposal costs) I wonder why no one is talking about nickel-iron batteries.</p><p>While they have a higher self discharge rate and a lower power output, they have a service life that is over 30 years and are pretty much immune to abuse.  Considering that the technology hasn't been developed since the 70's it still has a comparable energy density to lead acid, and when service life is factored in - a considerably lower price.  It looks like Nickel-Iron batteries would be perfect for things like solar or wind farms to store excess energy as they would likely outlast any wind or solar generating equipment and require little maintenance. Am I missing something?<br>If the same effort was put into developing these as we have with lead acid, it seems like solar and wind would become much more viable.<br>Wikipedia article on  Nickel-Iron Battery<br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-iron\_battery<br>Wikipedia article on  Lead-Acid Battery<br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid\_battery</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering the trade-off 's between cost , energy density and service life with service life being one of the biggest killers ( energy savings are lost in replacement and disposal costs ) I wonder why no one is talking about nickel-iron batteries.While they have a higher self discharge rate and a lower power output , they have a service life that is over 30 years and are pretty much immune to abuse .
Considering that the technology has n't been developed since the 70 's it still has a comparable energy density to lead acid , and when service life is factored in - a considerably lower price .
It looks like Nickel-Iron batteries would be perfect for things like solar or wind farms to store excess energy as they would likely outlast any wind or solar generating equipment and require little maintenance .
Am I missing something ? If the same effort was put into developing these as we have with lead acid , it seems like solar and wind would become much more viable.Wikipedia article on Nickel-Iron Batteryhttp : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-iron \ _batteryWikipedia article on Lead-Acid Batteryhttp : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid \ _battery</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering the trade-off's between cost, energy density and service life with service life being one of the biggest killers (energy savings are lost in replacement and disposal costs) I wonder why no one is talking about nickel-iron batteries.While they have a higher self discharge rate and a lower power output, they have a service life that is over 30 years and are pretty much immune to abuse.
Considering that the technology hasn't been developed since the 70's it still has a comparable energy density to lead acid, and when service life is factored in - a considerably lower price.
It looks like Nickel-Iron batteries would be perfect for things like solar or wind farms to store excess energy as they would likely outlast any wind or solar generating equipment and require little maintenance.
Am I missing something?If the same effort was put into developing these as we have with lead acid, it seems like solar and wind would become much more viable.Wikipedia article on  Nickel-Iron Batteryhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-iron\_batteryWikipedia article on  Lead-Acid Batteryhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid\_battery</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29806389</id>
	<title>Re:What happens in a traffic jam?</title>
	<author>meyekul</author>
	<datestamp>1256046300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Everyone has to get out and push!  Come to think of it, that would be an even better savings of energy -- just make everyone get out and walk their fat asses to the next station.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone has to get out and push !
Come to think of it , that would be an even better savings of energy -- just make everyone get out and walk their fat asses to the next station .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone has to get out and push!
Come to think of it, that would be an even better savings of energy -- just make everyone get out and walk their fat asses to the next station.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802449</id>
	<title>No, thanks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255959240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The cap's  are under the seats?! Call me old fashioned (and it won't be the first time) but I'll take a cab, thank you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The cap 's are under the seats ? !
Call me old fashioned ( and it wo n't be the first time ) but I 'll take a cab , thank you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The cap's  are under the seats?!
Call me old fashioned (and it won't be the first time) but I'll take a cab, thank you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803263</id>
	<title>Nothing all that new here</title>
	<author>calidoscope</author>
	<datestamp>1255965180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I remember seeing an article on a flywheel powered bus in the likes of Popular Science back in the mid-60's. There would be a recharging station every few stops where the flywheel would be spun up again. These stations consisted of something similar to a trolley wire bracket with three contacts (three phase AC) and three wires from the bus would rise up to meet the contacts similar to how a trolley pole contacts the trolley wire.<p>

Ultracaps and modern power electronics make this idea a <i>lot</i> more practical.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember seeing an article on a flywheel powered bus in the likes of Popular Science back in the mid-60 's .
There would be a recharging station every few stops where the flywheel would be spun up again .
These stations consisted of something similar to a trolley wire bracket with three contacts ( three phase AC ) and three wires from the bus would rise up to meet the contacts similar to how a trolley pole contacts the trolley wire .
Ultracaps and modern power electronics make this idea a lot more practical .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember seeing an article on a flywheel powered bus in the likes of Popular Science back in the mid-60's.
There would be a recharging station every few stops where the flywheel would be spun up again.
These stations consisted of something similar to a trolley wire bracket with three contacts (three phase AC) and three wires from the bus would rise up to meet the contacts similar to how a trolley pole contacts the trolley wire.
Ultracaps and modern power electronics make this idea a lot more practical.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802777</id>
	<title>Re:No, thanks</title>
	<author>Waffle Iron</author>
	<datestamp>1255961340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The cap's  are under the seats?! Call me old fashioned (and it won't be the first time) but I'll take a cab, thank you.</p></div><p>"You can't get people to sit over an explosion."</p><p>--Colonel Albert A. Pope, 1890s bicycle and electric car mogul, on the newly introduced internal combustion engines.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The cap 's are under the seats ? !
Call me old fashioned ( and it wo n't be the first time ) but I 'll take a cab , thank you .
" You ca n't get people to sit over an explosion .
" --Colonel Albert A. Pope , 1890s bicycle and electric car mogul , on the newly introduced internal combustion engines .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The cap's  are under the seats?!
Call me old fashioned (and it won't be the first time) but I'll take a cab, thank you.
"You can't get people to sit over an explosion.
"--Colonel Albert A. Pope, 1890s bicycle and electric car mogul, on the newly introduced internal combustion engines.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804125</id>
	<title>Re:one point missed, tech lifespan</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255973460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>except people are not. The hydrogen economy was a pipe dream of some talking heads in the late 90s early 00's. Now the technical consensus is that it more or less will never happen. Which is why the DOE has defunded most of hits hydrogen based reaserch</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>except people are not .
The hydrogen economy was a pipe dream of some talking heads in the late 90s early 00 's .
Now the technical consensus is that it more or less will never happen .
Which is why the DOE has defunded most of hits hydrogen based reaserch</tokentext>
<sentencetext>except people are not.
The hydrogen economy was a pipe dream of some talking heads in the late 90s early 00's.
Now the technical consensus is that it more or less will never happen.
Which is why the DOE has defunded most of hits hydrogen based reaserch</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803619</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>fluffy99</author>
	<datestamp>1255968180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unsprung weight is an issue, but not a major show stopper.  You still need to put the brakes somewhere, as DOT requires mechanically activated brakes on all wheels. Regen braking won't hold the vehicle when its stopped anyway.  Even it there was sufficient room within the wheel, that's still putting a lot of heat in there.</p><p>The second issue is gearing.  Electric motors are very inefficient as slow speeds.  Without some gearbox involved, it's difficult to get an acceptable range of speed while not compromising slow speed efficiency.  Compounding the problem is that the motor will likely be generating the most heat, when the wheel is turning very slow and has minimal cooling.  With regards to total power, 4 smaller motors will weight much more than a single motor of equal power.</p><p>I do like the concept for it's simplicity though. Rebuilding the "engine" could turn into "swapping" the engine with not much more effort than changing brakes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unsprung weight is an issue , but not a major show stopper .
You still need to put the brakes somewhere , as DOT requires mechanically activated brakes on all wheels .
Regen braking wo n't hold the vehicle when its stopped anyway .
Even it there was sufficient room within the wheel , that 's still putting a lot of heat in there.The second issue is gearing .
Electric motors are very inefficient as slow speeds .
Without some gearbox involved , it 's difficult to get an acceptable range of speed while not compromising slow speed efficiency .
Compounding the problem is that the motor will likely be generating the most heat , when the wheel is turning very slow and has minimal cooling .
With regards to total power , 4 smaller motors will weight much more than a single motor of equal power.I do like the concept for it 's simplicity though .
Rebuilding the " engine " could turn into " swapping " the engine with not much more effort than changing brakes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unsprung weight is an issue, but not a major show stopper.
You still need to put the brakes somewhere, as DOT requires mechanically activated brakes on all wheels.
Regen braking won't hold the vehicle when its stopped anyway.
Even it there was sufficient room within the wheel, that's still putting a lot of heat in there.The second issue is gearing.
Electric motors are very inefficient as slow speeds.
Without some gearbox involved, it's difficult to get an acceptable range of speed while not compromising slow speed efficiency.
Compounding the problem is that the motor will likely be generating the most heat, when the wheel is turning very slow and has minimal cooling.
With regards to total power, 4 smaller motors will weight much more than a single motor of equal power.I do like the concept for it's simplicity though.
Rebuilding the "engine" could turn into "swapping" the engine with not much more effort than changing brakes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29814583</id>
	<title>Batacitor?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256033220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Came in hoping for a reference to Philip Jose Farmer's <i>The Fabulous Riverboat.</i> <br> <br>
Leaving disappointed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Came in hoping for a reference to Philip Jose Farmer 's The Fabulous Riverboat .
Leaving disappointed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Came in hoping for a reference to Philip Jose Farmer's The Fabulous Riverboat.
Leaving disappointed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804155</id>
	<title>ebay and in wheel motors</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255973820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Detroit may not use them, but they are all over ebay in the electric bicycle and scooter areas. In addition, <a href="http://green.autoblog.com/tag/michelin+electric+wheel/" title="autoblog.com" rel="nofollow">michelin</a> [autoblog.com] has been working on them as well.</p><p>Really, this is 2009....citing Detroit as a hot bed of engineering elegance and technical skills is a little passe now....that they \_failed\_ at some tech or "couldn't get it to work" is nothing new at all. In the US the REAL domestic far out and successful car and truck engineering goes on in autoracing, hotrod shops, modding shops and new startups. Detroit maintains their solid global C-minus rating at all costs...</p><p>Here's Detroit, a movie reference-&gt; Fat (unions) Drunk (stockholders) Stupid (management)</p><p>That's no way to go through life, son..</p><p>
&nbsp; Detroit gets ideas, sure, any place BUT Detroit, then 15 years later starts showing some clunky million dollar prototypes, then 30 years later they enter production at double the cost and half the reliability of about anyone else. Here's my prediction along those lines teh VOLT!!11!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....<i>a few months later..</i> Auto top headline news..GM was forced to recall all their (now 60 grand) volt models because of problems with the batteries..and computer systems...and paint job..and the small booster engine that catches fire and blows up....and new "mileage performance" tires that shed road gators worse then a semi running on fourth generation retreads..</p><p>I'm from Detroit, keyword "from"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Detroit may not use them , but they are all over ebay in the electric bicycle and scooter areas .
In addition , michelin [ autoblog.com ] has been working on them as well.Really , this is 2009....citing Detroit as a hot bed of engineering elegance and technical skills is a little passe now....that they \ _failed \ _ at some tech or " could n't get it to work " is nothing new at all .
In the US the REAL domestic far out and successful car and truck engineering goes on in autoracing , hotrod shops , modding shops and new startups .
Detroit maintains their solid global C-minus rating at all costs...Here 's Detroit , a movie reference- &gt; Fat ( unions ) Drunk ( stockholders ) Stupid ( management ) That 's no way to go through life , son. .   Detroit gets ideas , sure , any place BUT Detroit , then 15 years later starts showing some clunky million dollar prototypes , then 30 years later they enter production at double the cost and half the reliability of about anyone else .
Here 's my prediction along those lines teh VOLT ! ! 11 !
....a few months later.. Auto top headline news..GM was forced to recall all their ( now 60 grand ) volt models because of problems with the batteries..and computer systems...and paint job..and the small booster engine that catches fire and blows up....and new " mileage performance " tires that shed road gators worse then a semi running on fourth generation retreads..I 'm from Detroit , keyword " from "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Detroit may not use them, but they are all over ebay in the electric bicycle and scooter areas.
In addition, michelin [autoblog.com] has been working on them as well.Really, this is 2009....citing Detroit as a hot bed of engineering elegance and technical skills is a little passe now....that they \_failed\_ at some tech or "couldn't get it to work" is nothing new at all.
In the US the REAL domestic far out and successful car and truck engineering goes on in autoracing, hotrod shops, modding shops and new startups.
Detroit maintains their solid global C-minus rating at all costs...Here's Detroit, a movie reference-&gt; Fat (unions) Drunk (stockholders) Stupid (management)That's no way to go through life, son..
  Detroit gets ideas, sure, any place BUT Detroit, then 15 years later starts showing some clunky million dollar prototypes, then 30 years later they enter production at double the cost and half the reliability of about anyone else.
Here's my prediction along those lines teh VOLT!!11!
....a few months later.. Auto top headline news..GM was forced to recall all their (now 60 grand) volt models because of problems with the batteries..and computer systems...and paint job..and the small booster engine that catches fire and blows up....and new "mileage performance" tires that shed road gators worse then a semi running on fourth generation retreads..I'm from Detroit, keyword "from"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803223</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802415</id>
	<title>Until...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255959060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exxon buys them out, or lobbies against the tech and throws campaign money to the folks that make the municipal decisions, as big oil does with everything else progressive that possibly endangers their energy monopoly.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exxon buys them out , or lobbies against the tech and throws campaign money to the folks that make the municipal decisions , as big oil does with everything else progressive that possibly endangers their energy monopoly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exxon buys them out, or lobbies against the tech and throws campaign money to the folks that make the municipal decisions, as big oil does with everything else progressive that possibly endangers their energy monopoly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802397</id>
	<title>Next model</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255958940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The next model will come with a flux supercapacitor, and will generate several sequels.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The next model will come with a flux supercapacitor , and will generate several sequels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The next model will come with a flux supercapacitor, and will generate several sequels.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803483</id>
	<title>Re:been saying this for years</title>
	<author>type40</author>
	<datestamp>1255967100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>people said i was crazy when i talked about this a few years ago.</p></div><p>To be fair, at the time you were suffering from massive head trauma due to that skee ball accident. You said a lot of things. Yes, you were right about the supper caps. The quantum phase shifting nuns, not so much.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>people said i was crazy when i talked about this a few years ago.To be fair , at the time you were suffering from massive head trauma due to that skee ball accident .
You said a lot of things .
Yes , you were right about the supper caps .
The quantum phase shifting nuns , not so much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>people said i was crazy when i talked about this a few years ago.To be fair, at the time you were suffering from massive head trauma due to that skee ball accident.
You said a lot of things.
Yes, you were right about the supper caps.
The quantum phase shifting nuns, not so much.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802459</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>Scrameustache</author>
	<datestamp>1255959780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>nice tin foil hat.</p></div><p>Here's a real world example <a href="http://greentransportandenergy.blogspot.com/2009/03/great-importance-of-wheel-motors.html" title="blogspot.com">http://greentransportandenergy.blogspot.com/2009/03/great-importance-of-wheel-motors.html</a> [blogspot.com]</p><p>They had a working prototype, they approached Detroit to get their making-cars expertise... and the project gets quickly scrapped for no apparent reason.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>nice tin foil hat.Here 's a real world example http : //greentransportandenergy.blogspot.com/2009/03/great-importance-of-wheel-motors.html [ blogspot.com ] They had a working prototype , they approached Detroit to get their making-cars expertise... and the project gets quickly scrapped for no apparent reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nice tin foil hat.Here's a real world example http://greentransportandenergy.blogspot.com/2009/03/great-importance-of-wheel-motors.html [blogspot.com]They had a working prototype, they approached Detroit to get their making-cars expertise... and the project gets quickly scrapped for no apparent reason.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802431</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802373</id>
	<title>They must be powerful...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255958820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the company name says it all!</p><p>*ZAP* Aowei!</p><p>Oh, first post!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the company name says it all !
* ZAP * Aowei ! Oh , first post !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the company name says it all!
*ZAP* Aowei!Oh, first post!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29811417</id>
	<title>Forget the bus..</title>
	<author>formfeed</author>
	<datestamp>1256064840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>.. these lazy kids could also walk to school (in the snow, uphill, both ways, like I did).
<p>
But, think what wonderful coil gun one could build with these caps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.. these lazy kids could also walk to school ( in the snow , uphill , both ways , like I did ) .
But , think what wonderful coil gun one could build with these caps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.. these lazy kids could also walk to school (in the snow, uphill, both ways, like I did).
But, think what wonderful coil gun one could build with these caps.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29805227</id>
	<title>Re:How......</title>
	<author>locofungus</author>
	<datestamp>1256032860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Buses (at least in London, can't speak for the town in question) are almost exclusively on a "accelerate from the last stop" or "brake for the next stop" sort of ride.</p><p>The Pendolino trains on the West Coast Main Line are claimed to get a 17\% reduction in energy use due to regenerative braking and that's an intercity line.</p><p><a href="http://www.alycidon.com/ALYCIDON\%20RAIL/INFORMED\%20SOURCES\%20ARCHIVE/INF\%20SRCS\%202007/Informed\%20Sources\%2007\%202007.htm" title="alycidon.com">http://www.alycidon.com/ALYCIDON\%20RAIL/INFORMED\%20SOURCES\%20ARCHIVE/INF\%20SRCS\%202007/Informed\%20Sources\%2007\%202007.htm</a> [alycidon.com]<br>(Scroll down to Technology)</p><p>I have no idea what sort of benefit regenerative braking would give for an urban bus but I'd be surprised if it was less than 30\% and I could believe figures of 60\%+.</p><p>Tim.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Buses ( at least in London , ca n't speak for the town in question ) are almost exclusively on a " accelerate from the last stop " or " brake for the next stop " sort of ride.The Pendolino trains on the West Coast Main Line are claimed to get a 17 \ % reduction in energy use due to regenerative braking and that 's an intercity line.http : //www.alycidon.com/ALYCIDON \ % 20RAIL/INFORMED \ % 20SOURCES \ % 20ARCHIVE/INF \ % 20SRCS \ % 202007/Informed \ % 20Sources \ % 2007 \ % 202007.htm [ alycidon.com ] ( Scroll down to Technology ) I have no idea what sort of benefit regenerative braking would give for an urban bus but I 'd be surprised if it was less than 30 \ % and I could believe figures of 60 \ % + .Tim .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Buses (at least in London, can't speak for the town in question) are almost exclusively on a "accelerate from the last stop" or "brake for the next stop" sort of ride.The Pendolino trains on the West Coast Main Line are claimed to get a 17\% reduction in energy use due to regenerative braking and that's an intercity line.http://www.alycidon.com/ALYCIDON\%20RAIL/INFORMED\%20SOURCES\%20ARCHIVE/INF\%20SRCS\%202007/Informed\%20Sources\%2007\%202007.htm [alycidon.com](Scroll down to Technology)I have no idea what sort of benefit regenerative braking would give for an urban bus but I'd be surprised if it was less than 30\% and I could believe figures of 60\%+.Tim.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803753</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29819421</id>
	<title>Re:They must be powerful...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256059980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What a complete waste of a frist post.</p><p>I shall now have to actually *look* for my goatse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What a complete waste of a frist post.I shall now have to actually * look * for my goatse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a complete waste of a frist post.I shall now have to actually *look* for my goatse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802373</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29808203</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256054220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>as a engineer having worked on mining trucks for 12years with wheel motors</i></p><p>The you're the guy to ask...</p><p><i>electric motors are generally very in-efficient at high torque</i></p><p>I thought that trains used electric motors powered by diesel generators rather than using diesels alone because electric motors had enough torque to pull a train, while the diesel didn't?</p><p>Could you enlighten me?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as a engineer having worked on mining trucks for 12years with wheel motorsThe you 're the guy to ask...electric motors are generally very in-efficient at high torqueI thought that trains used electric motors powered by diesel generators rather than using diesels alone because electric motors had enough torque to pull a train , while the diesel did n't ? Could you enlighten me ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as a engineer having worked on mining trucks for 12years with wheel motorsThe you're the guy to ask...electric motors are generally very in-efficient at high torqueI thought that trains used electric motors powered by diesel generators rather than using diesels alone because electric motors had enough torque to pull a train, while the diesel didn't?Could you enlighten me?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803261</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803717</id>
	<title>Re:been saying this for years</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255969020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>right, a few years back I was messing with electronics, I happened to overcharge a capacitor, dont remember the specs, but it was 7 mm tall, 3mm diameter, when it exploded, my ears were ringing for a full minute.<br>Anyway it was made in china too (I am not joking)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>right , a few years back I was messing with electronics , I happened to overcharge a capacitor , dont remember the specs , but it was 7 mm tall , 3mm diameter , when it exploded , my ears were ringing for a full minute.Anyway it was made in china too ( I am not joking )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>right, a few years back I was messing with electronics, I happened to overcharge a capacitor, dont remember the specs, but it was 7 mm tall, 3mm diameter, when it exploded, my ears were ringing for a full minute.Anyway it was made in china too (I am not joking)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802459</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804089</id>
	<title>Re:What happens in a traffic jam?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255972980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One of the big advantages of electric vehicles is that when you get stuck in trafic are are not moving you dont waste energy or maybe like<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.1\% of the normal amount of energy. The engine basically is off unlike ICEs which need to idle.  So your point is moot. An electric car can go about the same distance at 30 miles an hour as 1 mile an hour.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the big advantages of electric vehicles is that when you get stuck in trafic are are not moving you dont waste energy or maybe like .1 \ % of the normal amount of energy .
The engine basically is off unlike ICEs which need to idle .
So your point is moot .
An electric car can go about the same distance at 30 miles an hour as 1 mile an hour .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the big advantages of electric vehicles is that when you get stuck in trafic are are not moving you dont waste energy or maybe like .1\% of the normal amount of energy.
The engine basically is off unlike ICEs which need to idle.
So your point is moot.
An electric car can go about the same distance at 30 miles an hour as 1 mile an hour.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29807115</id>
	<title>Not tin foil, Standard Oil:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256049840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The Great American streetcar scandal (also known as the General Motors streetcar conspiracy and the National City Lines conspiracy) is a conspiracy in which streetcar systems throughout the United States were dismantled and replaced with buses in the mid-20th century as a result of illegal actions by a number of prominent companies, acting through National City Lines (NCL), Pacific City Lines (on the West Coast, starting in 1938), and American City Lines (in large cities, starting in 1943).</p><p>National, which had been in operation since 1920, was organized into a holding company, and General Motors, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, Mack, and the Federal Engineering Corporation made investments in the City Lines companies in return for exclusive supply contracts.[1] Between 1936 and 1950, National City Lines bought out more than 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities,[2] including Detroit, New York City, Oakland, Philadelphia, Phoenix, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, Tulsa, Baltimore, Minneapolis, and Los Angeles, and replaced them with GM buses. American City Lines merged with National in 1946</p></div><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great\_American\_streetcar\_scandal</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Great American streetcar scandal ( also known as the General Motors streetcar conspiracy and the National City Lines conspiracy ) is a conspiracy in which streetcar systems throughout the United States were dismantled and replaced with buses in the mid-20th century as a result of illegal actions by a number of prominent companies , acting through National City Lines ( NCL ) , Pacific City Lines ( on the West Coast , starting in 1938 ) , and American City Lines ( in large cities , starting in 1943 ) .National , which had been in operation since 1920 , was organized into a holding company , and General Motors , Firestone Tire , Standard Oil of California , Phillips Petroleum , Mack , and the Federal Engineering Corporation made investments in the City Lines companies in return for exclusive supply contracts .
[ 1 ] Between 1936 and 1950 , National City Lines bought out more than 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities , [ 2 ] including Detroit , New York City , Oakland , Philadelphia , Phoenix , St. Louis , Salt Lake City , Tulsa , Baltimore , Minneapolis , and Los Angeles , and replaced them with GM buses .
American City Lines merged with National in 1946http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great \ _American \ _streetcar \ _scandal</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Great American streetcar scandal (also known as the General Motors streetcar conspiracy and the National City Lines conspiracy) is a conspiracy in which streetcar systems throughout the United States were dismantled and replaced with buses in the mid-20th century as a result of illegal actions by a number of prominent companies, acting through National City Lines (NCL), Pacific City Lines (on the West Coast, starting in 1938), and American City Lines (in large cities, starting in 1943).National, which had been in operation since 1920, was organized into a holding company, and General Motors, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, Mack, and the Federal Engineering Corporation made investments in the City Lines companies in return for exclusive supply contracts.
[1] Between 1936 and 1950, National City Lines bought out more than 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities,[2] including Detroit, New York City, Oakland, Philadelphia, Phoenix, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, Tulsa, Baltimore, Minneapolis, and Los Angeles, and replaced them with GM buses.
American City Lines merged with National in 1946http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great\_American\_streetcar\_scandal
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802431</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29805729</id>
	<title>Re:soundes extremely dangerous</title>
	<author>molecular</author>
	<datestamp>1256039700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>also what about times when the bus doesn't need to pick up or drop of passengers? just stop the bus anyways?</p></div><p>the diesel bus stops anyway, too. it must keep it's schedule and there is no point in being early.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>also what about times when the bus does n't need to pick up or drop of passengers ?
just stop the bus anyways ? the diesel bus stops anyway , too .
it must keep it 's schedule and there is no point in being early .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>also what about times when the bus doesn't need to pick up or drop of passengers?
just stop the bus anyways?the diesel bus stops anyway, too.
it must keep it's schedule and there is no point in being early.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29821229</id>
	<title>annoying stops</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256125860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hmm, you are the only person on the bus late at night on your way home after enjoying a few beverages, no one else wants to get on or off, yet the bus keeps stopping for a minute at a time to recharge while your bladder gets closer to exploding.</p><p>I pity the drivers of these things, they have a hard enough job already</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm , you are the only person on the bus late at night on your way home after enjoying a few beverages , no one else wants to get on or off , yet the bus keeps stopping for a minute at a time to recharge while your bladder gets closer to exploding.I pity the drivers of these things , they have a hard enough job already</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm, you are the only person on the bus late at night on your way home after enjoying a few beverages, no one else wants to get on or off, yet the bus keeps stopping for a minute at a time to recharge while your bladder gets closer to exploding.I pity the drivers of these things, they have a hard enough job already</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802859</id>
	<title>Re:Next model</title>
	<author>Yvan256</author>
	<datestamp>1255962120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Shouldn't it generate prequels?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Should n't it generate prequels ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shouldn't it generate prequels?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803285</id>
	<title>Hydrogen economy is a joke.</title>
	<author>WindBourne</author>
	<datestamp>1255965360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Numerous studies have been done and prove that the energy into it will be worse than what it is for any fossil fuel. Right now, the amount of energy on a cap is low, BUT with more RD work, that will change. OTH, the costs of hydrogen and oil will only continue upwards.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Numerous studies have been done and prove that the energy into it will be worse than what it is for any fossil fuel .
Right now , the amount of energy on a cap is low , BUT with more RD work , that will change .
OTH , the costs of hydrogen and oil will only continue upwards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Numerous studies have been done and prove that the energy into it will be worse than what it is for any fossil fuel.
Right now, the amount of energy on a cap is low, BUT with more RD work, that will change.
OTH, the costs of hydrogen and oil will only continue upwards.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802649</id>
	<title>Re:soundes extremely dangerous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255960380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't petrol and diesel highly flammable?  If any car or bus explodes, I could see it being ver very bad...</p><p>Sheesh, take a look around.  Your laptop packs the energy of a hand grenade in its battery, your car's fuel tank has enough petrol to do considerable damage to a house, and overhead, there are wires just hanging there charged with enough electricity to kill you.</p><p>Look at petrol stations, for example.  I wouldn't trust half the people that stop to fill up to change the batteries in a remote control properly, let alone manage the transfer of over 1,280MJ of energy stored in a highly flammable liquid that can be ignited using static electricity (possibly even generated from wireless signal) using a nozzle with a metal tip into a car they've probably owned for 10+ years (and may have 'maintained' themselves for some of that).</p><p>I'm sure that the capacitors will have to pass the most stringent safety standards possible before they are used commercially, like everything else in our socity.</p><p>And I'm fine with that...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't petrol and diesel highly flammable ?
If any car or bus explodes , I could see it being ver very bad...Sheesh , take a look around .
Your laptop packs the energy of a hand grenade in its battery , your car 's fuel tank has enough petrol to do considerable damage to a house , and overhead , there are wires just hanging there charged with enough electricity to kill you.Look at petrol stations , for example .
I would n't trust half the people that stop to fill up to change the batteries in a remote control properly , let alone manage the transfer of over 1,280MJ of energy stored in a highly flammable liquid that can be ignited using static electricity ( possibly even generated from wireless signal ) using a nozzle with a metal tip into a car they 've probably owned for 10 + years ( and may have 'maintained ' themselves for some of that ) .I 'm sure that the capacitors will have to pass the most stringent safety standards possible before they are used commercially , like everything else in our socity.And I 'm fine with that.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't petrol and diesel highly flammable?
If any car or bus explodes, I could see it being ver very bad...Sheesh, take a look around.
Your laptop packs the energy of a hand grenade in its battery, your car's fuel tank has enough petrol to do considerable damage to a house, and overhead, there are wires just hanging there charged with enough electricity to kill you.Look at petrol stations, for example.
I wouldn't trust half the people that stop to fill up to change the batteries in a remote control properly, let alone manage the transfer of over 1,280MJ of energy stored in a highly flammable liquid that can be ignited using static electricity (possibly even generated from wireless signal) using a nozzle with a metal tip into a car they've probably owned for 10+ years (and may have 'maintained' themselves for some of that).I'm sure that the capacitors will have to pass the most stringent safety standards possible before they are used commercially, like everything else in our socity.And I'm fine with that...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802799</id>
	<title>energy density</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255961580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The ultracapacitors are made of activated carbon and have an energy density of six watt-hours per kilogram. (For comparison, a high-performance lithium-ion battery can achieve 200 watt-hours per kilogram.) Clifford Clare, chief executive of Foton America, says another 60 buses will be delivered early next year with ultracapacitors that supply 10 watt-hours per kilogram.</p></div><p>Or, to put this in more sensible terms.  0.021MJ/kg (0.036MJ/kg next year) for an ultracap vs 0.72MJ/kg for a lithium-ion battery.  Aka, the tiny bottom left square in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Energy\_density.svg" title="wikipedia.org">this chart</a> [wikipedia.org].  Compare this to, say, gasoline at 47MJ/kg or even hydrogen at 142MJ/kg and you start to get some idea of why people are excited about "the hydrogen economy".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The ultracapacitors are made of activated carbon and have an energy density of six watt-hours per kilogram .
( For comparison , a high-performance lithium-ion battery can achieve 200 watt-hours per kilogram .
) Clifford Clare , chief executive of Foton America , says another 60 buses will be delivered early next year with ultracapacitors that supply 10 watt-hours per kilogram.Or , to put this in more sensible terms .
0.021MJ/kg ( 0.036MJ/kg next year ) for an ultracap vs 0.72MJ/kg for a lithium-ion battery .
Aka , the tiny bottom left square in this chart [ wikipedia.org ] .
Compare this to , say , gasoline at 47MJ/kg or even hydrogen at 142MJ/kg and you start to get some idea of why people are excited about " the hydrogen economy " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The ultracapacitors are made of activated carbon and have an energy density of six watt-hours per kilogram.
(For comparison, a high-performance lithium-ion battery can achieve 200 watt-hours per kilogram.
) Clifford Clare, chief executive of Foton America, says another 60 buses will be delivered early next year with ultracapacitors that supply 10 watt-hours per kilogram.Or, to put this in more sensible terms.
0.021MJ/kg (0.036MJ/kg next year) for an ultracap vs 0.72MJ/kg for a lithium-ion battery.
Aka, the tiny bottom left square in this chart [wikipedia.org].
Compare this to, say, gasoline at 47MJ/kg or even hydrogen at 142MJ/kg and you start to get some idea of why people are excited about "the hydrogen economy".
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803261</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>Dare nMc</author>
	<datestamp>1255965180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as a engineer having worked on mining trucks for 12years with wheel motors, that page seams very guilty of avoiding context. Komatsu (mostly GE), Liehbier (Siemiens+GE), and Caterpillar all have wheel motored mining vehicles in production.  1) They show no gearing reduction, electric motors are generally very in-efficient at high torque, they mostly run at around 40:1 reduction in real world car app, this kind of gearing reduction is very pricey to create for high torques without lots of space.  2) Electric motors require a very large current to produce those torques (especially if no gearing reduction) and/or lots of windings (lots of weight) big wiring, and difficult power supplies 3) they show no room for excitation of the rotor, this means permanent magnets = rare earth magnets = $$$ + dense weight. 4) very small bearing surface area,  lots of spinning mass = lots of momentum = lots of torque when turning, bumps, etc.   Front wheels sounds like a very bad idea.  5) single efficiency number is suspicious, as stated above torque is poor efficiency, I do believe the efficiency at higher speeds but not at high torque.  6) sealing against weather/dirt/mud.  Even if they get only 4\% loss, good luck with cooling that and sealing it at the same time, without dumping the heat into the tires which will already be under trouble (see the suspended weight = extra tire abuse)  7) still no economical battery choice that can make electric cheaper than diesel over the lifetime of a battery.</p><p>That said, I want 2 for my 1970 2WD truck.  It has room for them, and I could slap them on get regen braking, and emergency 4WD help.  I don't need much help, and since 80\% of braking energy is slowing from 75mph to 25mph so I don't care about the torque/efficiency from 25 to 0.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as a engineer having worked on mining trucks for 12years with wheel motors , that page seams very guilty of avoiding context .
Komatsu ( mostly GE ) , Liehbier ( Siemiens + GE ) , and Caterpillar all have wheel motored mining vehicles in production .
1 ) They show no gearing reduction , electric motors are generally very in-efficient at high torque , they mostly run at around 40 : 1 reduction in real world car app , this kind of gearing reduction is very pricey to create for high torques without lots of space .
2 ) Electric motors require a very large current to produce those torques ( especially if no gearing reduction ) and/or lots of windings ( lots of weight ) big wiring , and difficult power supplies 3 ) they show no room for excitation of the rotor , this means permanent magnets = rare earth magnets = $ $ $ + dense weight .
4 ) very small bearing surface area , lots of spinning mass = lots of momentum = lots of torque when turning , bumps , etc .
Front wheels sounds like a very bad idea .
5 ) single efficiency number is suspicious , as stated above torque is poor efficiency , I do believe the efficiency at higher speeds but not at high torque .
6 ) sealing against weather/dirt/mud .
Even if they get only 4 \ % loss , good luck with cooling that and sealing it at the same time , without dumping the heat into the tires which will already be under trouble ( see the suspended weight = extra tire abuse ) 7 ) still no economical battery choice that can make electric cheaper than diesel over the lifetime of a battery.That said , I want 2 for my 1970 2WD truck .
It has room for them , and I could slap them on get regen braking , and emergency 4WD help .
I do n't need much help , and since 80 \ % of braking energy is slowing from 75mph to 25mph so I do n't care about the torque/efficiency from 25 to 0 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as a engineer having worked on mining trucks for 12years with wheel motors, that page seams very guilty of avoiding context.
Komatsu (mostly GE), Liehbier (Siemiens+GE), and Caterpillar all have wheel motored mining vehicles in production.
1) They show no gearing reduction, electric motors are generally very in-efficient at high torque, they mostly run at around 40:1 reduction in real world car app, this kind of gearing reduction is very pricey to create for high torques without lots of space.
2) Electric motors require a very large current to produce those torques (especially if no gearing reduction) and/or lots of windings (lots of weight) big wiring, and difficult power supplies 3) they show no room for excitation of the rotor, this means permanent magnets = rare earth magnets = $$$ + dense weight.
4) very small bearing surface area,  lots of spinning mass = lots of momentum = lots of torque when turning, bumps, etc.
Front wheels sounds like a very bad idea.
5) single efficiency number is suspicious, as stated above torque is poor efficiency, I do believe the efficiency at higher speeds but not at high torque.
6) sealing against weather/dirt/mud.
Even if they get only 4\% loss, good luck with cooling that and sealing it at the same time, without dumping the heat into the tires which will already be under trouble (see the suspended weight = extra tire abuse)  7) still no economical battery choice that can make electric cheaper than diesel over the lifetime of a battery.That said, I want 2 for my 1970 2WD truck.
It has room for them, and I could slap them on get regen braking, and emergency 4WD help.
I don't need much help, and since 80\% of braking energy is slowing from 75mph to 25mph so I don't care about the torque/efficiency from 25 to 0.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804747</id>
	<title>Re:energy density</title>
	<author>Barnett</author>
	<datestamp>1256069160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A vehicle also has limited <b>space</b>.  If you look at the other axis of that graph (MJ/l), you will be a lot less excited about hydrogen.  Unless of course your vehicle is a zeppelin, then space is not a problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A vehicle also has limited space .
If you look at the other axis of that graph ( MJ/l ) , you will be a lot less excited about hydrogen .
Unless of course your vehicle is a zeppelin , then space is not a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A vehicle also has limited space.
If you look at the other axis of that graph (MJ/l), you will be a lot less excited about hydrogen.
Unless of course your vehicle is a zeppelin, then space is not a problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29806289</id>
	<title>Carbon Dioxide an issue???</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256045580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Carbon Dioxide? Really a problem?<br>Monoxide, sure.<br>Plants BREATHE carbon dioxide. Haven't heard of any problems with dioxide buildup anywhere, either....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Carbon Dioxide ?
Really a problem ? Monoxide , sure.Plants BREATHE carbon dioxide .
Have n't heard of any problems with dioxide buildup anywhere , either... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Carbon Dioxide?
Really a problem?Monoxide, sure.Plants BREATHE carbon dioxide.
Haven't heard of any problems with dioxide buildup anywhere, either....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803931</id>
	<title>Their CO2 claims don't make sense to me</title>
	<author>jscheib</author>
	<datestamp>1255971120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse\_gas:</p><p>Fuel name       CO2 emitted (lbs/106 Btu)  <br>Fuel oil     161<br>Coal (bituminous)     205<br>Coal (subbituminous)     213<br>Coal (lignite)     215<br>Coal (anthracite)     227</p><p>From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal\_combustion\_engine#Energy\_efficiency:<br>"most engines retain an average efficiency of about 18\%-20\%"</p><p>From http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What\_is\_the\_energy\_efficiency\_of\_an\_average\_coal\_powered\_plant:<br>"According to Hans-Dieter Schilling (Energie-Fakten), the average efficiency of all coal power stations in the world currently stand at around 31\%"</p><p>Mashing those numbers around a bit I get around 900lbs of CO2 per usable MMBTU from diesel (fuel oil, close enough for these rough numbers), vs 700lbs of CO2 per usable MMBTU from coal based electricity. That's not even 1/3 less, far from the 2/3 less they are claiming.</p><p>There are extraction/transmission/conversion losses in both cases that could be factored in, but it's hard to see how it could change their math by a factor of two.</p><p>Am I missing something obvious?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse \ _gas : Fuel name CO2 emitted ( lbs/106 Btu ) Fuel oil 161Coal ( bituminous ) 205Coal ( subbituminous ) 213Coal ( lignite ) 215Coal ( anthracite ) 227From http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal \ _combustion \ _engine # Energy \ _efficiency : " most engines retain an average efficiency of about 18 \ % -20 \ % " From http : //wiki.answers.com/Q/What \ _is \ _the \ _energy \ _efficiency \ _of \ _an \ _average \ _coal \ _powered \ _plant : " According to Hans-Dieter Schilling ( Energie-Fakten ) , the average efficiency of all coal power stations in the world currently stand at around 31 \ % " Mashing those numbers around a bit I get around 900lbs of CO2 per usable MMBTU from diesel ( fuel oil , close enough for these rough numbers ) , vs 700lbs of CO2 per usable MMBTU from coal based electricity .
That 's not even 1/3 less , far from the 2/3 less they are claiming.There are extraction/transmission/conversion losses in both cases that could be factored in , but it 's hard to see how it could change their math by a factor of two.Am I missing something obvious ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse\_gas:Fuel name       CO2 emitted (lbs/106 Btu)  Fuel oil     161Coal (bituminous)     205Coal (subbituminous)     213Coal (lignite)     215Coal (anthracite)     227From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal\_combustion\_engine#Energy\_efficiency:"most engines retain an average efficiency of about 18\%-20\%"From http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What\_is\_the\_energy\_efficiency\_of\_an\_average\_coal\_powered\_plant:"According to Hans-Dieter Schilling (Energie-Fakten), the average efficiency of all coal power stations in the world currently stand at around 31\%"Mashing those numbers around a bit I get around 900lbs of CO2 per usable MMBTU from diesel (fuel oil, close enough for these rough numbers), vs 700lbs of CO2 per usable MMBTU from coal based electricity.
That's not even 1/3 less, far from the 2/3 less they are claiming.There are extraction/transmission/conversion losses in both cases that could be factored in, but it's hard to see how it could change their math by a factor of two.Am I missing something obvious?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802801</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>interkin3tic</author>
	<datestamp>1255961580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And they helped kill <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great\_American\_streetcar\_scandal" title="wikipedia.org">streetcars</a> [wikipedia.org].  Of course, that was in conjunction with general motors and many others, but they've also had around 80 years to evolve even better strategies for killing better options.</p><p>Anyone who trusts large companies to serve the public's best interest and willingly engage in competition they might lose should -put on- a tinfoil hat, one shaped like a cone that says "dunce" on it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And they helped kill streetcars [ wikipedia.org ] .
Of course , that was in conjunction with general motors and many others , but they 've also had around 80 years to evolve even better strategies for killing better options.Anyone who trusts large companies to serve the public 's best interest and willingly engage in competition they might lose should -put on- a tinfoil hat , one shaped like a cone that says " dunce " on it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And they helped kill streetcars [wikipedia.org].
Of course, that was in conjunction with general motors and many others, but they've also had around 80 years to evolve even better strategies for killing better options.Anyone who trusts large companies to serve the public's best interest and willingly engage in competition they might lose should -put on- a tinfoil hat, one shaped like a cone that says "dunce" on it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804021</id>
	<title>Re:No US company involved here....</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1255971960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can bet that the fine American firm of Dewey, Cheatam, and Howe drew up the contracts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can bet that the fine American firm of Dewey , Cheatam , and Howe drew up the contracts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can bet that the fine American firm of Dewey, Cheatam, and Howe drew up the contracts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802863</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>larry bagina</author>
	<datestamp>1255962180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
That blog makes no such claim.  It does mention this, though:
</p><p>
<i>The performance of these wheel-motors have been tested in the laboratory, but at the time of the resignation of Dr. Couture, only 2 wheel-motors were installed on the Intrepid and the power electronics was not yet complete, hence the impossibility to have full testing on the road. </i>
</p><p>
It's an interesting idea, but it may very well be impractical.  If it was all that (and then some), why aren't toyota, honda, tesla, or even gm all over it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That blog makes no such claim .
It does mention this , though : The performance of these wheel-motors have been tested in the laboratory , but at the time of the resignation of Dr. Couture , only 2 wheel-motors were installed on the Intrepid and the power electronics was not yet complete , hence the impossibility to have full testing on the road .
It 's an interesting idea , but it may very well be impractical .
If it was all that ( and then some ) , why are n't toyota , honda , tesla , or even gm all over it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
That blog makes no such claim.
It does mention this, though:

The performance of these wheel-motors have been tested in the laboratory, but at the time of the resignation of Dr. Couture, only 2 wheel-motors were installed on the Intrepid and the power electronics was not yet complete, hence the impossibility to have full testing on the road.
It's an interesting idea, but it may very well be impractical.
If it was all that (and then some), why aren't toyota, honda, tesla, or even gm all over it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803879</id>
	<title>The new terrorism</title>
	<author>qyiet</author>
	<datestamp>1255970760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ever wired a capacitor in backwards?   I have, the result is loud.<br> <br>  Now blowing up a bus might be as easy as cross wiring the charging terminals.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ever wired a capacitor in backwards ?
I have , the result is loud .
Now blowing up a bus might be as easy as cross wiring the charging terminals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ever wired a capacitor in backwards?
I have, the result is loud.
Now blowing up a bus might be as easy as cross wiring the charging terminals.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29806433</id>
	<title>Re:Next model</title>
	<author>CastrTroy</author>
	<datestamp>1256046660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Also, does this mean that the bus has to stop at every stop.  Often when I'm riding buses in the morning (not in Shanghai mind you), the bus will just skip stops because it's completely filled up and nobody wants to get off, or because there's another  bus with the exact same route directly in front of it, and stopping would just waste time.  Basically this just seems like it would slow down the whole system, as buses would have to wait at each stop and you would have to make sure that there was enough charging stations at each stop to accommodate the number of buses that may get backed up at any one stop.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , does this mean that the bus has to stop at every stop .
Often when I 'm riding buses in the morning ( not in Shanghai mind you ) , the bus will just skip stops because it 's completely filled up and nobody wants to get off , or because there 's another bus with the exact same route directly in front of it , and stopping would just waste time .
Basically this just seems like it would slow down the whole system , as buses would have to wait at each stop and you would have to make sure that there was enough charging stations at each stop to accommodate the number of buses that may get backed up at any one stop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, does this mean that the bus has to stop at every stop.
Often when I'm riding buses in the morning (not in Shanghai mind you), the bus will just skip stops because it's completely filled up and nobody wants to get off, or because there's another  bus with the exact same route directly in front of it, and stopping would just waste time.
Basically this just seems like it would slow down the whole system, as buses would have to wait at each stop and you would have to make sure that there was enough charging stations at each stop to accommodate the number of buses that may get backed up at any one stop.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804965</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802877</id>
	<title>Re:No, thanks</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1255962240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That'll put a stop to all the hobos urinating on the bus seats.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 'll put a stop to all the hobos urinating on the bus seats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That'll put a stop to all the hobos urinating on the bus seats.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803891</id>
	<title>Next sequel</title>
	<author>KneelBeforeZod</author>
	<datestamp>1255970880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Keep this bus going at 88 MPH or it'll explode... Back In The Future!!!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Keep this bus going at 88 MPH or it 'll explode... Back In The Future ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keep this bus going at 88 MPH or it'll explode... Back In The Future!!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804839</id>
	<title>Re:soundes extremely dangerous</title>
	<author>m.alessandrini</author>
	<datestamp>1256070120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, in a capacitor the voltage is inversely proportional to capacitance. So, arbitrarily high capacitance = arbitrarily high charge at modest voltage. Also for explosions, a battery is much more likely to explode, due to the chemical reactors it contains. With the new technologies for ultracapacitors, like carbon nanotubes, there should be no chemical components at all inside.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , in a capacitor the voltage is inversely proportional to capacitance .
So , arbitrarily high capacitance = arbitrarily high charge at modest voltage .
Also for explosions , a battery is much more likely to explode , due to the chemical reactors it contains .
With the new technologies for ultracapacitors , like carbon nanotubes , there should be no chemical components at all inside .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, in a capacitor the voltage is inversely proportional to capacitance.
So, arbitrarily high capacitance = arbitrarily high charge at modest voltage.
Also for explosions, a battery is much more likely to explode, due to the chemical reactors it contains.
With the new technologies for ultracapacitors, like carbon nanotubes, there should be no chemical components at all inside.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29809685</id>
	<title>Re:Title goes here</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256058960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i> If it's more fossil fuels, then it's not being green; it's cutting diesel costs</i></p><p>As someone pointed out (hopefully in another thread), the diesel produces more CO2 than the electricity needed, even if the electricity is generated by the dirtiest generation plant on the planet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it 's more fossil fuels , then it 's not being green ; it 's cutting diesel costsAs someone pointed out ( hopefully in another thread ) , the diesel produces more CO2 than the electricity needed , even if the electricity is generated by the dirtiest generation plant on the planet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> If it's more fossil fuels, then it's not being green; it's cutting diesel costsAs someone pointed out (hopefully in another thread), the diesel produces more CO2 than the electricity needed, even if the electricity is generated by the dirtiest generation plant on the planet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29814493</id>
	<title>Re:Until...</title>
	<author>flibbajobber</author>
	<datestamp>1256032920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>I thought that trains used electric motors powered by diesel generators rather than using diesels alone because electric motors had enough torque to pull a train, while the diesel didn't?</i> </p></div><p>Short answer is electric motors have torque from 0rpm whereas a diesel engine alone can't operate from 0rpm so needs some sort of clutch or slip system. All weighed up, the diesel-electric approach comes out ahead of other mechanisms.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought that trains used electric motors powered by diesel generators rather than using diesels alone because electric motors had enough torque to pull a train , while the diesel did n't ?
Short answer is electric motors have torque from 0rpm whereas a diesel engine alone ca n't operate from 0rpm so needs some sort of clutch or slip system .
All weighed up , the diesel-electric approach comes out ahead of other mechanisms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I thought that trains used electric motors powered by diesel generators rather than using diesels alone because electric motors had enough torque to pull a train, while the diesel didn't?
Short answer is electric motors have torque from 0rpm whereas a diesel engine alone can't operate from 0rpm so needs some sort of clutch or slip system.
All weighed up, the diesel-electric approach comes out ahead of other mechanisms.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29808203</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802867</id>
	<title>Hottest Wholesaler Woman Coach Shoes,Handbags!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255962180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Http://www.tntshoes.com</p><p>
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<tokenext>    Http : //www.tntshoes.com     The shoes We can supply all kinds of shoes with different styles , You will find what your like.Features : 1 ) Size for men US8-12 UK7-11 ( some US13/UK12 ) Size for women US5-8/102 ) Packing : 1pr/box , 12prs/carton , 12prs/style/color ( original box and retro card ) 3 ) Many designs and colors available4 ) Delivery can be prompt shipping5 ) We accept paypal + + + aaa quality .OUR WEBSITE :                                                         YAHOO : shoppertrade @ yahoo.com.cn                                                                 MSN : shoppertrade @ hotmail.com                                                                     Http : //www.tntshoes.com</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
    Http://www.tntshoes.com
    The shoes We can supply all kinds of shoes with different styles, You will find what your like.Features:1) Size for men US8-12 UK7-11(some US13/UK12)Size for women US5-8/102) Packing: 1pr/box, 12prs/carton, 12prs/style/color(original box and retro card)3) Many designs and colors available4) Delivery can be prompt shipping5) We accept paypal +++aaa quality .OUR WEBSITE:
                                                        YAHOO:shoppertrade@yahoo.com.cn
                                                                MSN:shoppertrade@hotmail.com
                                                                    Http://www.tntshoes.com</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29806583</id>
	<title>Re:No, thanks</title>
	<author>MindStalker</author>
	<datestamp>1256047440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.cap-xx.com/resources/faq.htm" title="cap-xx.com">http://www.cap-xx.com/resources/faq.htm</a> [cap-xx.com]</p><p>What happens if I apply excessive voltage to a supercapacitor?</p><p>Supercapacitors are inherently safe. They do not contain any chemicals (such as Li) that may explode.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.cap-xx.com/resources/faq.htm [ cap-xx.com ] What happens if I apply excessive voltage to a supercapacitor ? Supercapacitors are inherently safe .
They do not contain any chemicals ( such as Li ) that may explode .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.cap-xx.com/resources/faq.htm [cap-xx.com]What happens if I apply excessive voltage to a supercapacitor?Supercapacitors are inherently safe.
They do not contain any chemicals (such as Li) that may explode.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802543</id>
	<title>Re:Title goes here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255959720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why would you be dead at a red light? If you're not moving then you're motors are drawing power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would you be dead at a red light ?
If you 're not moving then you 're motors are drawing power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would you be dead at a red light?
If you're not moving then you're motors are drawing power.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802643</id>
	<title>Re:What happens in a traffic jam?</title>
	<author>fred fleenblat</author>
	<datestamp>1255960320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it shouldn't use any power just sitting there. capacitors do slowly discharge of their own accord, but an hour in a traffic jam shouldn't be a problem.  they will have to turn off the a/c though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it should n't use any power just sitting there .
capacitors do slowly discharge of their own accord , but an hour in a traffic jam should n't be a problem .
they will have to turn off the a/c though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it shouldn't use any power just sitting there.
capacitors do slowly discharge of their own accord, but an hour in a traffic jam shouldn't be a problem.
they will have to turn off the a/c though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804965</id>
	<title>Re:Next model</title>
	<author>glarbl\_blarbl</author>
	<datestamp>1256072160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>hmm...  I'm thinking it will be really hard to get the buses to be struck by lightning every time they need to be recharged.  Cause how else are you going to generate the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity you need?</htmltext>
<tokenext>hmm... I 'm thinking it will be really hard to get the buses to be struck by lightning every time they need to be recharged .
Cause how else are you going to generate the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity you need ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hmm...  I'm thinking it will be really hard to get the buses to be struck by lightning every time they need to be recharged.
Cause how else are you going to generate the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity you need?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804245</id>
	<title>Re:energy density</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255975080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just a shame that hydrogen is so damn energy intensive to create. Much worse than using electric.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just a shame that hydrogen is so damn energy intensive to create .
Much worse than using electric .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just a shame that hydrogen is so damn energy intensive to create.
Much worse than using electric.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802843</id>
	<title>Combine this with the super-capacitor</title>
	<author>Taco Cowboy</author>
	<datestamp>1255961940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and we might get something that works !</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and we might get something that works !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and we might get something that works !</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29813705</id>
	<title>Capacitor explosion</title>
	<author>gwn</author>
	<datestamp>1256030400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I recall having capacitors blow in power supplies... often results in fudge production... Don't want to be on that bus when the capacitor blows.  Good idea though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I recall having capacitors blow in power supplies... often results in fudge production... Do n't want to be on that bus when the capacitor blows .
Good idea though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recall having capacitors blow in power supplies... often results in fudge production... Don't want to be on that bus when the capacitor blows.
Good idea though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803283</id>
	<title>Re:energy density</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255965360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hydrogen? Bah...that's nothing.   Where's the entry for antimatter?<br>http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/home/antimatter\_spaceship.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hydrogen ?
Bah...that 's nothing .
Where 's the entry for antimatter ? http : //www.nasa.gov/exploration/home/antimatter \ _spaceship.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hydrogen?
Bah...that's nothing.
Where's the entry for antimatter?http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/home/antimatter\_spaceship.html</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802469</id>
	<title>soundes extremely dangerous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255959300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>isn't the voltage across ultracapacitors really large with a large charge? if that cap explodes, i could see it being very very bad.<br>
also what about times when the bus doesn't need to pick up or drop of passengers? just stop the bus anyways?</htmltext>
<tokenext>is n't the voltage across ultracapacitors really large with a large charge ?
if that cap explodes , i could see it being very very bad .
also what about times when the bus does n't need to pick up or drop of passengers ?
just stop the bus anyways ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>isn't the voltage across ultracapacitors really large with a large charge?
if that cap explodes, i could see it being very very bad.
also what about times when the bus doesn't need to pick up or drop of passengers?
just stop the bus anyways?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804259</id>
	<title>Re:one point missed, tech lifespan</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255975260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My last job was designing a charger for these capacitors for a UPS.</p><p>They have a upper limit in operating temperature 60-70C as the Ultracap uses water based dielectric.  Chemical is added to lower the internal resistance.  Slightly different chemical mix added to the water can operate at higher temperature, but does so with worse lifetime.</p><p>The useful lifetime of these capacitors drops very rapidly if you insist on using/storing them close to the upper range, so you really want to keep them below 50C.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My last job was designing a charger for these capacitors for a UPS.They have a upper limit in operating temperature 60-70C as the Ultracap uses water based dielectric .
Chemical is added to lower the internal resistance .
Slightly different chemical mix added to the water can operate at higher temperature , but does so with worse lifetime.The useful lifetime of these capacitors drops very rapidly if you insist on using/storing them close to the upper range , so you really want to keep them below 50C .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My last job was designing a charger for these capacitors for a UPS.They have a upper limit in operating temperature 60-70C as the Ultracap uses water based dielectric.
Chemical is added to lower the internal resistance.
Slightly different chemical mix added to the water can operate at higher temperature, but does so with worse lifetime.The useful lifetime of these capacitors drops very rapidly if you insist on using/storing them close to the upper range, so you really want to keep them below 50C.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29814349</id>
	<title>There are some problems there</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1256032500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Moreover, with four wheel-motors, there is no differential neither transmission. It is a direct drive, and there is no energy loss between the motor and wheels, as in a car with central engine. This is a second reason why wheel-motors consume less energy, particularly during cold winters."</p><p>They don't mention how they make up for no differential. You kind of need something to compensate for the wheel turning during a turn. Something dynamic an instantly responsive.</p><p>It go scrapped becasue it wasn't viable, or there is something already in the works.</p><p>Now, if there was a market for really efficient cars, they would sell really efficient cars. In reality efficiency* has been lower on a new car buyers list then comfort and convenience.</p><p>High mileage ultra efficiency cars are in the auto makers best interest.</p><p>*It seems one is finally emerging.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Moreover , with four wheel-motors , there is no differential neither transmission .
It is a direct drive , and there is no energy loss between the motor and wheels , as in a car with central engine .
This is a second reason why wheel-motors consume less energy , particularly during cold winters .
" They do n't mention how they make up for no differential .
You kind of need something to compensate for the wheel turning during a turn .
Something dynamic an instantly responsive.It go scrapped becasue it was n't viable , or there is something already in the works.Now , if there was a market for really efficient cars , they would sell really efficient cars .
In reality efficiency * has been lower on a new car buyers list then comfort and convenience.High mileage ultra efficiency cars are in the auto makers best interest .
* It seems one is finally emerging .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Moreover, with four wheel-motors, there is no differential neither transmission.
It is a direct drive, and there is no energy loss between the motor and wheels, as in a car with central engine.
This is a second reason why wheel-motors consume less energy, particularly during cold winters.
"They don't mention how they make up for no differential.
You kind of need something to compensate for the wheel turning during a turn.
Something dynamic an instantly responsive.It go scrapped becasue it wasn't viable, or there is something already in the works.Now, if there was a market for really efficient cars, they would sell really efficient cars.
In reality efficiency* has been lower on a new car buyers list then comfort and convenience.High mileage ultra efficiency cars are in the auto makers best interest.
*It seems one is finally emerging.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29807239</id>
	<title>Re:Next model</title>
	<author>Eccles</author>
	<datestamp>1256050380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1.21 gigawatts?  Great Scott!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1.21 gigawatts ?
Great Scott !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.21 gigawatts?
Great Scott!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804965</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29804317</id>
	<title>Re:We've been doing this for years</title>
	<author>PFAK</author>
	<datestamp>1255975920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have those in Vancouver <a href="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/2565365684\_59fc66d848\_b.jpg" title="flickr.com">as well</a> [flickr.com], except we have articulated and single electric trolleys. Great idea, virtually silent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have those in Vancouver as well [ flickr.com ] , except we have articulated and single electric trolleys .
Great idea , virtually silent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have those in Vancouver as well [flickr.com], except we have articulated and single electric trolleys.
Great idea, virtually silent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802687</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29805839</id>
	<title>Re:Can't believe you didn't...</title>
	<author>daem0n1x</author>
	<datestamp>1256041200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I believe it's Maoist China we're talking about...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe it 's Maoist China we 're talking about.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe it's Maoist China we're talking about...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802701</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29812981</id>
	<title>Re:High potential</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256070600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But the amount of power you need to deliver in a short time means that the stations have to have either the ability to acquire and store a massive charge in the between-bus intervals, (their own ultra-capacitors) </p></div><p>They need to be built from concrete anyway, so plenty of protection to put a flywheel under the bus stops?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But the amount of power you need to deliver in a short time means that the stations have to have either the ability to acquire and store a massive charge in the between-bus intervals , ( their own ultra-capacitors ) They need to be built from concrete anyway , so plenty of protection to put a flywheel under the bus stops ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But the amount of power you need to deliver in a short time means that the stations have to have either the ability to acquire and store a massive charge in the between-bus intervals, (their own ultra-capacitors) They need to be built from concrete anyway, so plenty of protection to put a flywheel under the bus stops?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802593</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802459</id>
	<title>been saying this for years</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255959240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>people said i was crazy when i talked about this a few years ago. the best advatage of UC's is they don't melt when you discharge a huge current as batteries do, hello electric sports cars that kick the shit out of petrol engines.</htmltext>
<tokenext>people said i was crazy when i talked about this a few years ago .
the best advatage of UC 's is they do n't melt when you discharge a huge current as batteries do , hello electric sports cars that kick the shit out of petrol engines .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>people said i was crazy when i talked about this a few years ago.
the best advatage of UC's is they don't melt when you discharge a huge current as batteries do, hello electric sports cars that kick the shit out of petrol engines.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29824163</id>
	<title>Re:one point missed, tech lifespan</title>
	<author>NormalVisual</author>
	<datestamp>1256143620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>I would guess you could get by with maybe half the total volt-amperes for a bus rather than a subway car. But maybe not as there is a lot less resistance to rolling a subway car on tracks than a bus with tires.</i> <br> <br>

Nah, you won't need anywhere near 2K amps at 480 volts.  The transit monorails that I've driven weigh about 150,000 pounds, and from a dead stop will draw around 1500 amps at 600 volts DC under substantial acceleration.  Once they're rolling, they pull around a third of that current on a level beamway, and that's accounting for the resistance of 12 pneumatic load tires on concrete, plus another 52 guide tires that are held against the sides of the beam under considerable pressure, plus the mechanical losses from eight gearboxes.  Also included in that power draw are a dozen large A/C units, a *huge* air compressor, and various other electronic gear being driven off of seven inverters, each of which will have their own non-trivial losses.<br> <br>

A typical transit bus weighs about 40-50K pounds, has *much* lower rolling resistance than one of my trains, and doesn't have all the other crap stuck on it drawing power either, with the exception of a single A/C unit and air compressor in most cases.  Back-of-the-napkin guess would be that you could pretty easily get by with a couple hundred amps, assuming a 480 VDC system.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would guess you could get by with maybe half the total volt-amperes for a bus rather than a subway car .
But maybe not as there is a lot less resistance to rolling a subway car on tracks than a bus with tires .
Nah , you wo n't need anywhere near 2K amps at 480 volts .
The transit monorails that I 've driven weigh about 150,000 pounds , and from a dead stop will draw around 1500 amps at 600 volts DC under substantial acceleration .
Once they 're rolling , they pull around a third of that current on a level beamway , and that 's accounting for the resistance of 12 pneumatic load tires on concrete , plus another 52 guide tires that are held against the sides of the beam under considerable pressure , plus the mechanical losses from eight gearboxes .
Also included in that power draw are a dozen large A/C units , a * huge * air compressor , and various other electronic gear being driven off of seven inverters , each of which will have their own non-trivial losses .
A typical transit bus weighs about 40-50K pounds , has * much * lower rolling resistance than one of my trains , and does n't have all the other crap stuck on it drawing power either , with the exception of a single A/C unit and air compressor in most cases .
Back-of-the-napkin guess would be that you could pretty easily get by with a couple hundred amps , assuming a 480 VDC system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would guess you could get by with maybe half the total volt-amperes for a bus rather than a subway car.
But maybe not as there is a lot less resistance to rolling a subway car on tracks than a bus with tires.
Nah, you won't need anywhere near 2K amps at 480 volts.
The transit monorails that I've driven weigh about 150,000 pounds, and from a dead stop will draw around 1500 amps at 600 volts DC under substantial acceleration.
Once they're rolling, they pull around a third of that current on a level beamway, and that's accounting for the resistance of 12 pneumatic load tires on concrete, plus another 52 guide tires that are held against the sides of the beam under considerable pressure, plus the mechanical losses from eight gearboxes.
Also included in that power draw are a dozen large A/C units, a *huge* air compressor, and various other electronic gear being driven off of seven inverters, each of which will have their own non-trivial losses.
A typical transit bus weighs about 40-50K pounds, has *much* lower rolling resistance than one of my trains, and doesn't have all the other crap stuck on it drawing power either, with the exception of a single A/C unit and air compressor in most cases.
Back-of-the-napkin guess would be that you could pretty easily get by with a couple hundred amps, assuming a 480 VDC system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29803877</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_19_2248214.29802701</id>
	<title>Can't believe you didn't...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255960800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In soviet russia, ultracapacitor bus recharges YOU!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In soviet russia , ultracapacitor bus recharges YOU !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In soviet russia, ultracapacitor bus recharges YOU!</sentencetext>
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