<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_15_1319248</id>
	<title>Should I Publish Or Patent?</title>
	<author>CmdrTaco</author>
	<datestamp>1255613340000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>BorgeStrand writes <i>'Patenting is an expensive process, even coming up with some sort of proof that your idea is unique (and thereby try to attract financing) may be prohibitive for the lone inventor. So what do you folks out there do when you come up with a good idea but don't have the means to patent it or market it to someone who will pay for the patenting process? And how much sense does it really make for the lone inventor to patent something? Would it make more sense to publish the whole idea, and make it (and my inventive brainpower) up for grabs? If my ideas are indeed valuable, what is the best way to gain anything from them without investing too much financially? What is your experience?'</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>BorgeStrand writes 'Patenting is an expensive process , even coming up with some sort of proof that your idea is unique ( and thereby try to attract financing ) may be prohibitive for the lone inventor .
So what do you folks out there do when you come up with a good idea but do n't have the means to patent it or market it to someone who will pay for the patenting process ?
And how much sense does it really make for the lone inventor to patent something ?
Would it make more sense to publish the whole idea , and make it ( and my inventive brainpower ) up for grabs ?
If my ideas are indeed valuable , what is the best way to gain anything from them without investing too much financially ?
What is your experience ?
'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BorgeStrand writes 'Patenting is an expensive process, even coming up with some sort of proof that your idea is unique (and thereby try to attract financing) may be prohibitive for the lone inventor.
So what do you folks out there do when you come up with a good idea but don't have the means to patent it or market it to someone who will pay for the patenting process?
And how much sense does it really make for the lone inventor to patent something?
Would it make more sense to publish the whole idea, and make it (and my inventive brainpower) up for grabs?
If my ideas are indeed valuable, what is the best way to gain anything from them without investing too much financially?
What is your experience?
'</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759665</id>
	<title>Re:Good Ideas are cheap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255631520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would suggest that you read:<br>"The Incredible Secret Money Machine"<br>published in  1978 by uber geek Don Lancaster.</p><p>He says ideas are a dime a dozen - in 100 gross lots!</p><p>1)  Mail a copy to yourself via registered mail, and don't open it.<br>2)  Publish, publish, publish (in the appropriate trade rags, mostly).<br>3) Take the consulting jobs from the companies who like your idea.<br>4) Profit!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would suggest that you read : " The Incredible Secret Money Machine " published in 1978 by uber geek Don Lancaster.He says ideas are a dime a dozen - in 100 gross lots ! 1 ) Mail a copy to yourself via registered mail , and do n't open it.2 ) Publish , publish , publish ( in the appropriate trade rags , mostly ) .3 ) Take the consulting jobs from the companies who like your idea.4 ) Profit ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would suggest that you read:"The Incredible Secret Money Machine"published in  1978 by uber geek Don Lancaster.He says ideas are a dime a dozen - in 100 gross lots!1)  Mail a copy to yourself via registered mail, and don't open it.2)  Publish, publish, publish (in the appropriate trade rags, mostly).3) Take the consulting jobs from the companies who like your idea.4) Profit!!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756755</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29763117</id>
	<title>what is your goal?</title>
	<author>Goldsmith</author>
	<datestamp>1255603800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you want a career in industry?<br>A patent or two doesn't look bad on a resume.</p><p>Do you want a career in academia?<br>A paper or two doesn't look bad on a CV.</p><p>Do you want to make lots of money?<br>Forget inventing and get an MBA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you want a career in industry ? A patent or two does n't look bad on a resume.Do you want a career in academia ? A paper or two does n't look bad on a CV.Do you want to make lots of money ? Forget inventing and get an MBA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you want a career in industry?A patent or two doesn't look bad on a resume.Do you want a career in academia?A paper or two doesn't look bad on a CV.Do you want to make lots of money?Forget inventing and get an MBA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759731</id>
	<title>Patents can work, but they have to be good ones.</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1255631820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I'm going to get flamed by the usual losers for this, but anyway...
</p><p>
I hold three software patents.  One was sold as part of a deal that made me several million dollars back in the 1980s.  One made me $600,000 in licensing fees.  I'm pursuing an infringement claim against DoD on the third.
I also have another patent pending. I put "Inventor" on my tax return.
</p><p>
Each of these patents was an early patent in an area where previous attempts to solve the problem had failed.  In each case, the patented technology came with a working application or a successful demo.  So these weren't just "ideas", they were ideas that worked.  That's when patents are worthwhile - you've solved a hard problem, you're not with a big enough company to exploit it, and doing a startup doesn't seem to be the right answer.
</p><p>
The key point here is that a patent plus a demo version is more valuable than either alone.
</p><p>
This history isn't all that unusual here in Silicon Valley.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm going to get flamed by the usual losers for this , but anyway.. . I hold three software patents .
One was sold as part of a deal that made me several million dollars back in the 1980s .
One made me $ 600,000 in licensing fees .
I 'm pursuing an infringement claim against DoD on the third .
I also have another patent pending .
I put " Inventor " on my tax return .
Each of these patents was an early patent in an area where previous attempts to solve the problem had failed .
In each case , the patented technology came with a working application or a successful demo .
So these were n't just " ideas " , they were ideas that worked .
That 's when patents are worthwhile - you 've solved a hard problem , you 're not with a big enough company to exploit it , and doing a startup does n't seem to be the right answer .
The key point here is that a patent plus a demo version is more valuable than either alone .
This history is n't all that unusual here in Silicon Valley .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I'm going to get flamed by the usual losers for this, but anyway...

I hold three software patents.
One was sold as part of a deal that made me several million dollars back in the 1980s.
One made me $600,000 in licensing fees.
I'm pursuing an infringement claim against DoD on the third.
I also have another patent pending.
I put "Inventor" on my tax return.
Each of these patents was an early patent in an area where previous attempts to solve the problem had failed.
In each case, the patented technology came with a working application or a successful demo.
So these weren't just "ideas", they were ideas that worked.
That's when patents are worthwhile - you've solved a hard problem, you're not with a big enough company to exploit it, and doing a startup doesn't seem to be the right answer.
The key point here is that a patent plus a demo version is more valuable than either alone.
This history isn't all that unusual here in Silicon Valley.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29762925</id>
	<title>Re:Patent if it's practical, publish if it's risky</title>
	<author>Canberra Bob</author>
	<datestamp>1255602840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you patent, it'll be expensive.<br>If you don't patent, but end up making it, someone else will patent it and sue you, that will be more expensive.<br>However, if it'll never really be marketable, publish, someone might think oooo nifty, and hire you because it sounds great.</p></div><p>Great idea.  Put all the time, effort and money into creating the technology.  Then upon completion give it away to someone else so they can make money from it.  If you are lucky they might hire you to work some menial job for them and spit you out when it's convenient.</p><p>I have never understood the attitude on here that just the act of getting a job somewhere is considered some amazing feat.  Please correct me if I have mis-interpreted your post.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you patent , it 'll be expensive.If you do n't patent , but end up making it , someone else will patent it and sue you , that will be more expensive.However , if it 'll never really be marketable , publish , someone might think oooo nifty , and hire you because it sounds great.Great idea .
Put all the time , effort and money into creating the technology .
Then upon completion give it away to someone else so they can make money from it .
If you are lucky they might hire you to work some menial job for them and spit you out when it 's convenient.I have never understood the attitude on here that just the act of getting a job somewhere is considered some amazing feat .
Please correct me if I have mis-interpreted your post .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you patent, it'll be expensive.If you don't patent, but end up making it, someone else will patent it and sue you, that will be more expensive.However, if it'll never really be marketable, publish, someone might think oooo nifty, and hire you because it sounds great.Great idea.
Put all the time, effort and money into creating the technology.
Then upon completion give it away to someone else so they can make money from it.
If you are lucky they might hire you to work some menial job for them and spit you out when it's convenient.I have never understood the attitude on here that just the act of getting a job somewhere is considered some amazing feat.
Please correct me if I have mis-interpreted your post.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759403</id>
	<title>Patent if you want the rewards</title>
	<author>Skull\_Leader</author>
	<datestamp>1255630320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From an examiner: no matter what people may have said before me, or the differing philosophical ideas out there on the subject... if you publish your idea, its gone. Everyone then essentially owns it. That is the key thing to remember. If you go down the road and later think you want a patent after all (over a year), your own publishing of your idea will be used as prior art against you and you are done. If you don't care about ever receiving any financial benefit from your idea, then by all means publish it. Otherwise, save your money, do your research, and apply as soon as you are able. Do the application well the first time, use an attorney who follows your directions but who knows the process, and go from there. Good luck.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From an examiner : no matter what people may have said before me , or the differing philosophical ideas out there on the subject... if you publish your idea , its gone .
Everyone then essentially owns it .
That is the key thing to remember .
If you go down the road and later think you want a patent after all ( over a year ) , your own publishing of your idea will be used as prior art against you and you are done .
If you do n't care about ever receiving any financial benefit from your idea , then by all means publish it .
Otherwise , save your money , do your research , and apply as soon as you are able .
Do the application well the first time , use an attorney who follows your directions but who knows the process , and go from there .
Good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From an examiner: no matter what people may have said before me, or the differing philosophical ideas out there on the subject... if you publish your idea, its gone.
Everyone then essentially owns it.
That is the key thing to remember.
If you go down the road and later think you want a patent after all (over a year), your own publishing of your idea will be used as prior art against you and you are done.
If you don't care about ever receiving any financial benefit from your idea, then by all means publish it.
Otherwise, save your money, do your research, and apply as soon as you are able.
Do the application well the first time, use an attorney who follows your directions but who knows the process, and go from there.
Good luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29770855</id>
	<title>License it.</title>
	<author>shadocat2</author>
	<datestamp>1255718940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unless you are experience with manufacturing the type of item you are talking about or running business in general, license the idea and move on.  I know someone who had 24 toys licensed (this was several years ago).  All he does is come up with toy ideas and get checks.  That leaves him a lot of time to get into trouble...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..."oh, lets build a rocket to take me up so I can parachute out of it."
<br> <br>
If you got the patent, is the idea marketable?
<br> <br>
If it is marketable, you can get mall business lines of credit to use for the patent process.
<br> <br>
The downside is that you then have to pay this money back.  So, only do this if you can patent it and then immediately sell the license to someone who can produce it.  Many of the lines have 6 month grace periods and that would be just long enough to the the patent finished.
<br> <br>
As someone already mentioned, you can also do this without the patent.  You just need to keep copious notes and do them the right way.  You can probably find books on protecting your intellectual property in the library.  Read them.
<br> <br>
Personally, I would use what ever money you save on the patent to spend on a good lawyer for your negotiations.
<br> <br>
In the end, you will get more money from a license if you patent the idea.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless you are experience with manufacturing the type of item you are talking about or running business in general , license the idea and move on .
I know someone who had 24 toys licensed ( this was several years ago ) .
All he does is come up with toy ideas and get checks .
That leaves him a lot of time to get into trouble... ... " oh , lets build a rocket to take me up so I can parachute out of it .
" If you got the patent , is the idea marketable ?
If it is marketable , you can get mall business lines of credit to use for the patent process .
The downside is that you then have to pay this money back .
So , only do this if you can patent it and then immediately sell the license to someone who can produce it .
Many of the lines have 6 month grace periods and that would be just long enough to the the patent finished .
As someone already mentioned , you can also do this without the patent .
You just need to keep copious notes and do them the right way .
You can probably find books on protecting your intellectual property in the library .
Read them .
Personally , I would use what ever money you save on the patent to spend on a good lawyer for your negotiations .
In the end , you will get more money from a license if you patent the idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless you are experience with manufacturing the type of item you are talking about or running business in general, license the idea and move on.
I know someone who had 24 toys licensed (this was several years ago).
All he does is come up with toy ideas and get checks.
That leaves him a lot of time to get into trouble... ..."oh, lets build a rocket to take me up so I can parachute out of it.
"
 
If you got the patent, is the idea marketable?
If it is marketable, you can get mall business lines of credit to use for the patent process.
The downside is that you then have to pay this money back.
So, only do this if you can patent it and then immediately sell the license to someone who can produce it.
Many of the lines have 6 month grace periods and that would be just long enough to the the patent finished.
As someone already mentioned, you can also do this without the patent.
You just need to keep copious notes and do them the right way.
You can probably find books on protecting your intellectual property in the library.
Read them.
Personally, I would use what ever money you save on the patent to spend on a good lawyer for your negotiations.
In the end, you will get more money from a license if you patent the idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29758039</id>
	<title>WD-40</title>
	<author>ArhcAngel</author>
	<datestamp>1255624380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't know how easy it would be to reverse engineer your idea but if it would be prohibitively difficult you could always take the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40#Formulation" title="wikipedia.org">WD-40 route</a> [wikipedia.org].</p><p><i>WD-40's formula is a trade secret. The product is not patented in order to avoid completely disclosing its ingredients.</i></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't know how easy it would be to reverse engineer your idea but if it would be prohibitively difficult you could always take the WD-40 route [ wikipedia.org ] .WD-40 's formula is a trade secret .
The product is not patented in order to avoid completely disclosing its ingredients .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't know how easy it would be to reverse engineer your idea but if it would be prohibitively difficult you could always take the WD-40 route [wikipedia.org].WD-40's formula is a trade secret.
The product is not patented in order to avoid completely disclosing its ingredients.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29763309</id>
	<title>n00b</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255604880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dood... like everyone else who thinks they have some great idea: you don't. Publish it on your blog that nobody reads and get back to your job at WalMart.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dood... like everyone else who thinks they have some great idea : you do n't .
Publish it on your blog that nobody reads and get back to your job at WalMart .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dood... like everyone else who thinks they have some great idea: you don't.
Publish it on your blog that nobody reads and get back to your job at WalMart.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756755</id>
	<title>Good Ideas are cheap</title>
	<author>Peaker</author>
	<datestamp>1255619280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ideas are a dime a dozen.<br>Implement something.</p><p>There is no sense in rewarding people for thinking up ideas. We simply don't need to, as good ideas will be thought out even if we don't.</p><p>The problem is finding people who would implement those ideas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ideas are a dime a dozen.Implement something.There is no sense in rewarding people for thinking up ideas .
We simply do n't need to , as good ideas will be thought out even if we do n't.The problem is finding people who would implement those ideas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ideas are a dime a dozen.Implement something.There is no sense in rewarding people for thinking up ideas.
We simply don't need to, as good ideas will be thought out even if we don't.The problem is finding people who would implement those ideas.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757913</id>
	<title>Piggyback on Other Laws</title>
	<author>shoebucket</author>
	<datestamp>1255623900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've heard a rumor before about documenting your idea thoroughly, and then sending it to yourself via certified mail and leaving it unopened.  That way, there's a legal timestamp proving that the idea was yours.  I'm not sure how well it may hold up in court, though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've heard a rumor before about documenting your idea thoroughly , and then sending it to yourself via certified mail and leaving it unopened .
That way , there 's a legal timestamp proving that the idea was yours .
I 'm not sure how well it may hold up in court , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've heard a rumor before about documenting your idea thoroughly, and then sending it to yourself via certified mail and leaving it unopened.
That way, there's a legal timestamp proving that the idea was yours.
I'm not sure how well it may hold up in court, though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757755</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1255623300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What kind of cube slave mentality is that?<br>Yippee I get to sit in a cube for implementing my idea to make money for a big company.</p><p>Whoopee-fucking-do.</p><p>How about you ALSO make good money from your idea that moves society forward*?</p><p>*whatever the hell that means.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What kind of cube slave mentality is that ? Yippee I get to sit in a cube for implementing my idea to make money for a big company.Whoopee-fucking-do.How about you ALSO make good money from your idea that moves society forward * ?
* whatever the hell that means .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What kind of cube slave mentality is that?Yippee I get to sit in a cube for implementing my idea to make money for a big company.Whoopee-fucking-do.How about you ALSO make good money from your idea that moves society forward*?
*whatever the hell that means.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757181</id>
	<title>Re:You can do both</title>
	<author>fair use</author>
	<datestamp>1255620900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You also don't need to file the patent before you publish in the US.  You have one year from the day that you publish (or otherwise make it publicly known) to file the patent.  After that, you lose the right to seek a patent.  In other countries, you must file the patent before you publish.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You also do n't need to file the patent before you publish in the US .
You have one year from the day that you publish ( or otherwise make it publicly known ) to file the patent .
After that , you lose the right to seek a patent .
In other countries , you must file the patent before you publish .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You also don't need to file the patent before you publish in the US.
You have one year from the day that you publish (or otherwise make it publicly known) to file the patent.
After that, you lose the right to seek a patent.
In other countries, you must file the patent before you publish.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29766455</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>BugHappy</author>
	<datestamp>1255726680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>When you patent something competitors know how to copy your works.</b> And, unless you are rich enough to (successfully) defend your patent in courts, the only thing you will have done is to give away to the vilains (the big well-funded incumbants that already suck public subsides to 'innovate').

Now, there is <b>the open-source alternative: you get the same results (being copied overnight) at a bargain price: it's free!</b>

If you are REALLY consumed by the burning desire to see your work stolen -the choice is a no-brainer.

But you might also consider an alternative: use your idea to make a very useful product and sell it. If that's a hit then you will get money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When you patent something competitors know how to copy your works .
And , unless you are rich enough to ( successfully ) defend your patent in courts , the only thing you will have done is to give away to the vilains ( the big well-funded incumbants that already suck public subsides to 'innovate ' ) .
Now , there is the open-source alternative : you get the same results ( being copied overnight ) at a bargain price : it 's free !
If you are REALLY consumed by the burning desire to see your work stolen -the choice is a no-brainer .
But you might also consider an alternative : use your idea to make a very useful product and sell it .
If that 's a hit then you will get money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you patent something competitors know how to copy your works.
And, unless you are rich enough to (successfully) defend your patent in courts, the only thing you will have done is to give away to the vilains (the big well-funded incumbants that already suck public subsides to 'innovate').
Now, there is the open-source alternative: you get the same results (being copied overnight) at a bargain price: it's free!
If you are REALLY consumed by the burning desire to see your work stolen -the choice is a no-brainer.
But you might also consider an alternative: use your idea to make a very useful product and sell it.
If that's a hit then you will get money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29766315</id>
	<title>patent pending. over $40,000 in fees so far.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255724340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Patenting is expensive. So far. Over $40,000 in fees.</p><p>It will take a long time. Patent office has BIG BIG backlog.</p><p>I filed a provisional in 2004. Filed patent 2005. Finally heard from patent office 2008.</p><p>First office action. It is obvious. Rejected. Sent revision.</p><p>Second office action. Still obvious. Rejected.</p><p>Third reply. Set up telcon with examiner. Me. Patent Agent. Examiner. Clarified claims. Sent telcon agreement.</p><p>Last office action. You may have a second patent in your claims.  Replied.</p><p>Waiting for next office action.</p><p>Patenting an integrated pointing keyboard.  Pointing has same performance as a stand-alone mouse.</p><p>A user can point, click, type, scroll, delete, backspace, and esc all from the home row in any order simultaneously.  Both hands on keyboard.</p><p>Developing a gaming keyboard.  Both hands on keyboard.</p><p>User has complete control of the computer screen.</p><p>Stand alone mouse and keyboard. Old technology.</p><p>Applying from patents in USA, China, Japan, Europe, and Korea.</p><p>Did market research. Have met Microsoft, Kinesis, Razer, and Goldtouch keyboard people. They are still trying to perfect the stand-alone mouse and keyboard.</p><p>Background. Working on Phd in advanced input technology and interfaces.</p><p>Made business plan.</p><p>VCs want to much of company.</p><p>Will make keyboard myself. About $200,000.</p><p>Use prototype keyboards for stock trading as a retail stock trader from bedroom trading room everyday.</p><p>Will self fund keyboard from stock trading.</p><p>Put up all trades in real time on twitter.  One trade. Up 6000\%.  Took half at 3000\%. Other half. 2000\%.  $0.07 to over $4.00 on 1000 shares bp.</p><p>Monday the 12th covered position 1300\%.  $0.10 to $1.40  1000 shares cern.</p><p>Other past trades: ba: 500\% , ntes 300\%.</p><p>I put all my trades up on twitter to show that all you need to make money trading is a trading account. Everything else is free from the library or on the internet.</p><p>There is no secret sauce to trading and making money.</p><p>With a complete trading plan, a trader can continuously make more money than one loses.</p><p>With a retail trading account, trading from a bedroom trading room, my trading buddy went from $50,000 to $6,000,000.</p><p>Then went down to below $1,000,000.  No complete trading plan.</p><p>A patent is a trade. You will make money or not.</p><p>If you think you idea is patentable, put up the money and do it.</p><p>Know your field really well.</p><p>from the "father of the perfect keyboard"</p><p>inputexpert  twittering as stocktradr</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Patenting is expensive .
So far .
Over $ 40,000 in fees.It will take a long time .
Patent office has BIG BIG backlog.I filed a provisional in 2004 .
Filed patent 2005 .
Finally heard from patent office 2008.First office action .
It is obvious .
Rejected. Sent revision.Second office action .
Still obvious .
Rejected.Third reply .
Set up telcon with examiner .
Me. Patent Agent .
Examiner. Clarified claims .
Sent telcon agreement.Last office action .
You may have a second patent in your claims .
Replied.Waiting for next office action.Patenting an integrated pointing keyboard .
Pointing has same performance as a stand-alone mouse.A user can point , click , type , scroll , delete , backspace , and esc all from the home row in any order simultaneously .
Both hands on keyboard.Developing a gaming keyboard .
Both hands on keyboard.User has complete control of the computer screen.Stand alone mouse and keyboard .
Old technology.Applying from patents in USA , China , Japan , Europe , and Korea.Did market research .
Have met Microsoft , Kinesis , Razer , and Goldtouch keyboard people .
They are still trying to perfect the stand-alone mouse and keyboard.Background .
Working on Phd in advanced input technology and interfaces.Made business plan.VCs want to much of company.Will make keyboard myself .
About $ 200,000.Use prototype keyboards for stock trading as a retail stock trader from bedroom trading room everyday.Will self fund keyboard from stock trading.Put up all trades in real time on twitter .
One trade .
Up 6000 \ % .
Took half at 3000 \ % .
Other half .
2000 \ % . $ 0.07 to over $ 4.00 on 1000 shares bp.Monday the 12th covered position 1300 \ % .
$ 0.10 to $ 1.40 1000 shares cern.Other past trades : ba : 500 \ % , ntes 300 \ % .I put all my trades up on twitter to show that all you need to make money trading is a trading account .
Everything else is free from the library or on the internet.There is no secret sauce to trading and making money.With a complete trading plan , a trader can continuously make more money than one loses.With a retail trading account , trading from a bedroom trading room , my trading buddy went from $ 50,000 to $ 6,000,000.Then went down to below $ 1,000,000 .
No complete trading plan.A patent is a trade .
You will make money or not.If you think you idea is patentable , put up the money and do it.Know your field really well.from the " father of the perfect keyboard " inputexpert twittering as stocktradr</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Patenting is expensive.
So far.
Over $40,000 in fees.It will take a long time.
Patent office has BIG BIG backlog.I filed a provisional in 2004.
Filed patent 2005.
Finally heard from patent office 2008.First office action.
It is obvious.
Rejected. Sent revision.Second office action.
Still obvious.
Rejected.Third reply.
Set up telcon with examiner.
Me. Patent Agent.
Examiner. Clarified claims.
Sent telcon agreement.Last office action.
You may have a second patent in your claims.
Replied.Waiting for next office action.Patenting an integrated pointing keyboard.
Pointing has same performance as a stand-alone mouse.A user can point, click, type, scroll, delete, backspace, and esc all from the home row in any order simultaneously.
Both hands on keyboard.Developing a gaming keyboard.
Both hands on keyboard.User has complete control of the computer screen.Stand alone mouse and keyboard.
Old technology.Applying from patents in USA, China, Japan, Europe, and Korea.Did market research.
Have met Microsoft, Kinesis, Razer, and Goldtouch keyboard people.
They are still trying to perfect the stand-alone mouse and keyboard.Background.
Working on Phd in advanced input technology and interfaces.Made business plan.VCs want to much of company.Will make keyboard myself.
About $200,000.Use prototype keyboards for stock trading as a retail stock trader from bedroom trading room everyday.Will self fund keyboard from stock trading.Put up all trades in real time on twitter.
One trade.
Up 6000\%.
Took half at 3000\%.
Other half.
2000\%.  $0.07 to over $4.00 on 1000 shares bp.Monday the 12th covered position 1300\%.
$0.10 to $1.40  1000 shares cern.Other past trades: ba: 500\% , ntes 300\%.I put all my trades up on twitter to show that all you need to make money trading is a trading account.
Everything else is free from the library or on the internet.There is no secret sauce to trading and making money.With a complete trading plan, a trader can continuously make more money than one loses.With a retail trading account, trading from a bedroom trading room, my trading buddy went from $50,000 to $6,000,000.Then went down to below $1,000,000.
No complete trading plan.A patent is a trade.
You will make money or not.If you think you idea is patentable, put up the money and do it.Know your field really well.from the "father of the perfect keyboard"inputexpert  twittering as stocktradr</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29760511</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>psithurism</author>
	<datestamp>1255635000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> And somehow you profit from that.</p></div><p>
Well, I can't speak for all<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.ers (and neither can you), but I'd say you profit in at least 3 ways:
<br> <br>
1. Inventions usually fill a need, often your need. If someone else built them, you could go buy one and not have to attempt to start a business around it.
<br> <br>
2. You feel good about all the other lives you made easier/more efficient with you product. Especially if say, you hook up a dehumidifier to a solar panel, and when it becomes a product, it later solves some area's water crisis.
<br> <br>
3. If done right, and you get credit for the idea, the profits won't be immediate cash, but the notoriety and possible influence on the idea could bring the long desired cash products everyone seems to be set on. Since money is far more important than silly goals such as improving the human condition.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And somehow you profit from that .
Well , I ca n't speak for all /.ers ( and neither can you ) , but I 'd say you profit in at least 3 ways : 1 .
Inventions usually fill a need , often your need .
If someone else built them , you could go buy one and not have to attempt to start a business around it .
2. You feel good about all the other lives you made easier/more efficient with you product .
Especially if say , you hook up a dehumidifier to a solar panel , and when it becomes a product , it later solves some area 's water crisis .
3. If done right , and you get credit for the idea , the profits wo n't be immediate cash , but the notoriety and possible influence on the idea could bring the long desired cash products everyone seems to be set on .
Since money is far more important than silly goals such as improving the human condition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> And somehow you profit from that.
Well, I can't speak for all /.ers (and neither can you), but I'd say you profit in at least 3 ways:
 
1.
Inventions usually fill a need, often your need.
If someone else built them, you could go buy one and not have to attempt to start a business around it.
2. You feel good about all the other lives you made easier/more efficient with you product.
Especially if say, you hook up a dehumidifier to a solar panel, and when it becomes a product, it later solves some area's water crisis.
3. If done right, and you get credit for the idea, the profits won't be immediate cash, but the notoriety and possible influence on the idea could bring the long desired cash products everyone seems to be set on.
Since money is far more important than silly goals such as improving the human condition.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756789</id>
	<title>Re:Patent if it's practical, publish if it's risky</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255619460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If someone else patents it and you have proof that you came up with the idea first, their patent is rendered invalid(it's up to the courts though). The guy who made the first video game (it was like pong) didn't patent it, so now no one can patent video games. Also, with a patent, it is only valid in the country that you file it in. Even then you are the one responsible for enforcing it. Its a good idea to make a company to own the patent too, that way you get get the maximum life of the patent. Patents aren't enforceable after the owner is deceased.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If someone else patents it and you have proof that you came up with the idea first , their patent is rendered invalid ( it 's up to the courts though ) .
The guy who made the first video game ( it was like pong ) did n't patent it , so now no one can patent video games .
Also , with a patent , it is only valid in the country that you file it in .
Even then you are the one responsible for enforcing it .
Its a good idea to make a company to own the patent too , that way you get get the maximum life of the patent .
Patents are n't enforceable after the owner is deceased .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If someone else patents it and you have proof that you came up with the idea first, their patent is rendered invalid(it's up to the courts though).
The guy who made the first video game (it was like pong) didn't patent it, so now no one can patent video games.
Also, with a patent, it is only valid in the country that you file it in.
Even then you are the one responsible for enforcing it.
Its a good idea to make a company to own the patent too, that way you get get the maximum life of the patent.
Patents aren't enforceable after the owner is deceased.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756865</id>
	<title>What is your motivations?</title>
	<author>davidwr</author>
	<datestamp>1255619700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want the glory that can come only from selfless giving, publish, publish, publish, or alternatively, patent and don't charge licensing fees.</p><p>If you want cash or the glory that can come with an expensive self-marketing campaign, patent, patent, patent.  If you need the patent for a swap, patent, patent, patent.</p><p>But don't patent unless you've got something good, or you may find your ideas relegated to obscurity unless you license it broadly for nearly nothing.</p><p>One non-financial reason to patent is control:</p><p>Once you publish something and the time to patent expires (immediately in some countries, 1 year in others), anyone can improve your invention, patent the improvement, and if the improvement is good enough to render the un-improved version obsolete, control the market.  If you patent and license broadly and cheaply, you can later change the licensing for new customers to "the same as what you are paying the guy who improved it," which may pressure the guy who improved it to charge reasonable licensing fees.</p><p>Another often-overlooked aspect of control is you have some measure of control over WHO licenses your patent.  This can be used for good or evil.  For example, if you have a patent on a method for mining diamonds, you can refuse to license it to anyone doing business in areas that mine conflict diamonds.  There are limits to this though, including patent exhaustion and the problem of enforcement against companies based in countries with legal systems that are hostile to you.  Of course, this can be used for evil as well, like a global conglomerate not licensing it any company that does business with your chief competitors, even if those competitors are in businesses un-related to the patent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want the glory that can come only from selfless giving , publish , publish , publish , or alternatively , patent and do n't charge licensing fees.If you want cash or the glory that can come with an expensive self-marketing campaign , patent , patent , patent .
If you need the patent for a swap , patent , patent , patent.But do n't patent unless you 've got something good , or you may find your ideas relegated to obscurity unless you license it broadly for nearly nothing.One non-financial reason to patent is control : Once you publish something and the time to patent expires ( immediately in some countries , 1 year in others ) , anyone can improve your invention , patent the improvement , and if the improvement is good enough to render the un-improved version obsolete , control the market .
If you patent and license broadly and cheaply , you can later change the licensing for new customers to " the same as what you are paying the guy who improved it , " which may pressure the guy who improved it to charge reasonable licensing fees.Another often-overlooked aspect of control is you have some measure of control over WHO licenses your patent .
This can be used for good or evil .
For example , if you have a patent on a method for mining diamonds , you can refuse to license it to anyone doing business in areas that mine conflict diamonds .
There are limits to this though , including patent exhaustion and the problem of enforcement against companies based in countries with legal systems that are hostile to you .
Of course , this can be used for evil as well , like a global conglomerate not licensing it any company that does business with your chief competitors , even if those competitors are in businesses un-related to the patent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want the glory that can come only from selfless giving, publish, publish, publish, or alternatively, patent and don't charge licensing fees.If you want cash or the glory that can come with an expensive self-marketing campaign, patent, patent, patent.
If you need the patent for a swap, patent, patent, patent.But don't patent unless you've got something good, or you may find your ideas relegated to obscurity unless you license it broadly for nearly nothing.One non-financial reason to patent is control:Once you publish something and the time to patent expires (immediately in some countries, 1 year in others), anyone can improve your invention, patent the improvement, and if the improvement is good enough to render the un-improved version obsolete, control the market.
If you patent and license broadly and cheaply, you can later change the licensing for new customers to "the same as what you are paying the guy who improved it," which may pressure the guy who improved it to charge reasonable licensing fees.Another often-overlooked aspect of control is you have some measure of control over WHO licenses your patent.
This can be used for good or evil.
For example, if you have a patent on a method for mining diamonds, you can refuse to license it to anyone doing business in areas that mine conflict diamonds.
There are limits to this though, including patent exhaustion and the problem of enforcement against companies based in countries with legal systems that are hostile to you.
Of course, this can be used for evil as well, like a global conglomerate not licensing it any company that does business with your chief competitors, even if those competitors are in businesses un-related to the patent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756799</id>
	<title>Patents not for the lone inventor</title>
	<author>bzzfzz</author>
	<datestamp>1255619520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In general, lone inventors don't benefit much from patents.
<p>
I used to work for $BIG\_COMPANY where we had a process where a team of lawyers and engineers would evaluate everything someone thought remotely patentable, and they would consider whether the patent was worth the time and money (usually several thousand dollars even though they used in-house counsel and did thousands of these a year).  The analysis was based not only on the validity of the patent and the value of the innovation covered, but also the difficulty of creating a comparable innovation that is non-infringing, and the difficulty of detecting infringement  (One of the problems with software patents is that it is often difficult to detect whether infringement has occurred in a closed-source competing implementation, which makes the patent unenforceable in practice).
</p><p>
Most of their patents were never worth anything, even with all the vetting.  The valuable ones were core innovations in emerging industries where the product gets sold in consumer quantities, not some way to make a better forklift.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In general , lone inventors do n't benefit much from patents .
I used to work for $ BIG \ _COMPANY where we had a process where a team of lawyers and engineers would evaluate everything someone thought remotely patentable , and they would consider whether the patent was worth the time and money ( usually several thousand dollars even though they used in-house counsel and did thousands of these a year ) .
The analysis was based not only on the validity of the patent and the value of the innovation covered , but also the difficulty of creating a comparable innovation that is non-infringing , and the difficulty of detecting infringement ( One of the problems with software patents is that it is often difficult to detect whether infringement has occurred in a closed-source competing implementation , which makes the patent unenforceable in practice ) .
Most of their patents were never worth anything , even with all the vetting .
The valuable ones were core innovations in emerging industries where the product gets sold in consumer quantities , not some way to make a better forklift .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In general, lone inventors don't benefit much from patents.
I used to work for $BIG\_COMPANY where we had a process where a team of lawyers and engineers would evaluate everything someone thought remotely patentable, and they would consider whether the patent was worth the time and money (usually several thousand dollars even though they used in-house counsel and did thousands of these a year).
The analysis was based not only on the validity of the patent and the value of the innovation covered, but also the difficulty of creating a comparable innovation that is non-infringing, and the difficulty of detecting infringement  (One of the problems with software patents is that it is often difficult to detect whether infringement has occurred in a closed-source competing implementation, which makes the patent unenforceable in practice).
Most of their patents were never worth anything, even with all the vetting.
The valuable ones were core innovations in emerging industries where the product gets sold in consumer quantities, not some way to make a better forklift.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757061</id>
	<title>Small entity?</title>
	<author>AliasMarlowe</author>
	<datestamp>1255620480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Presumably, you would be patenting as a small entity, for which the US PTO cuts most fees by 50\%.
<br> <br>
You also don't necessarily need an expensive attorney to file a US patent application - you can do it yourself, provided you conform to certain formal requirements. For an application which goes smoothly through the process, the small entity fees are less than $2000 <a href="http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009september15.htm" title="uspto.gov">http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009september15.htm</a> [uspto.gov]. If there are many office actions, this total could easily double or triple, however, so preparing the application carefully is essential. I'd recommend you peruse the documents at <a href="http://www.uspto.gov/patents/basics/index.html" title="uspto.gov">http://www.uspto.gov/patents/basics/index.html</a> [uspto.gov], and get a copy of 37CFR part 1 (patent rules) and the MPEP <a href="http://www.uspto.gov/patents/law/index.jsp" title="uspto.gov">http://www.uspto.gov/patents/law/index.jsp</a> [uspto.gov].
<br> <br>
FWIW, I've had a couple of patents which issued without any intervening office actions, but they were the exceptions. Most involved a few office actions, and a couple involved many office actions. Every office action involves a fee, even if the action was due to the PTO losing papers which they had officially acknowledged receiving (that case is still ongoing).
<br> <br>
Also, publishing in some journal or on the web does not necessarily prevent someone else from filing a patent application on much the same thing. The US PTO does not and cannot search ALL possible publications when looking for prior art, and if a patent is wrongly issued, it would be up to you to challenge it in court (at much higher expense than actually getting a patent)). The PTO <b>does</b> search all US patents and US patent applications, however. So filing a patent application, and then abandoning it at the first office action, is a good and relatively cheap way of publishing your idea in a way that prevents everyone else from getting a patent on it. They'd have to make significant changes beyond anything clearly contemplated in your application to get their application through the PTO.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Presumably , you would be patenting as a small entity , for which the US PTO cuts most fees by 50 \ % .
You also do n't necessarily need an expensive attorney to file a US patent application - you can do it yourself , provided you conform to certain formal requirements .
For an application which goes smoothly through the process , the small entity fees are less than $ 2000 http : //www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009september15.htm [ uspto.gov ] .
If there are many office actions , this total could easily double or triple , however , so preparing the application carefully is essential .
I 'd recommend you peruse the documents at http : //www.uspto.gov/patents/basics/index.html [ uspto.gov ] , and get a copy of 37CFR part 1 ( patent rules ) and the MPEP http : //www.uspto.gov/patents/law/index.jsp [ uspto.gov ] .
FWIW , I 've had a couple of patents which issued without any intervening office actions , but they were the exceptions .
Most involved a few office actions , and a couple involved many office actions .
Every office action involves a fee , even if the action was due to the PTO losing papers which they had officially acknowledged receiving ( that case is still ongoing ) .
Also , publishing in some journal or on the web does not necessarily prevent someone else from filing a patent application on much the same thing .
The US PTO does not and can not search ALL possible publications when looking for prior art , and if a patent is wrongly issued , it would be up to you to challenge it in court ( at much higher expense than actually getting a patent ) ) .
The PTO does search all US patents and US patent applications , however .
So filing a patent application , and then abandoning it at the first office action , is a good and relatively cheap way of publishing your idea in a way that prevents everyone else from getting a patent on it .
They 'd have to make significant changes beyond anything clearly contemplated in your application to get their application through the PTO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Presumably, you would be patenting as a small entity, for which the US PTO cuts most fees by 50\%.
You also don't necessarily need an expensive attorney to file a US patent application - you can do it yourself, provided you conform to certain formal requirements.
For an application which goes smoothly through the process, the small entity fees are less than $2000 http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009september15.htm [uspto.gov].
If there are many office actions, this total could easily double or triple, however, so preparing the application carefully is essential.
I'd recommend you peruse the documents at http://www.uspto.gov/patents/basics/index.html [uspto.gov], and get a copy of 37CFR part 1 (patent rules) and the MPEP http://www.uspto.gov/patents/law/index.jsp [uspto.gov].
FWIW, I've had a couple of patents which issued without any intervening office actions, but they were the exceptions.
Most involved a few office actions, and a couple involved many office actions.
Every office action involves a fee, even if the action was due to the PTO losing papers which they had officially acknowledged receiving (that case is still ongoing).
Also, publishing in some journal or on the web does not necessarily prevent someone else from filing a patent application on much the same thing.
The US PTO does not and cannot search ALL possible publications when looking for prior art, and if a patent is wrongly issued, it would be up to you to challenge it in court (at much higher expense than actually getting a patent)).
The PTO does search all US patents and US patent applications, however.
So filing a patent application, and then abandoning it at the first office action, is a good and relatively cheap way of publishing your idea in a way that prevents everyone else from getting a patent on it.
They'd have to make significant changes beyond anything clearly contemplated in your application to get their application through the PTO.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756309</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29762115</id>
	<title>Pssst!  It's what Disney &amp; Micro$oft did</title>
	<author>sgt\_doom</author>
	<datestamp>1255600020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's called tradmarking.  It's usually financially superior to patenting.....<p>Secret Plan for 2012: elect Bobby Jindal (gov, Louisiana) as president, then offshore that job to India.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's called tradmarking .
It 's usually financially superior to patenting.....Secret Plan for 2012 : elect Bobby Jindal ( gov , Louisiana ) as president , then offshore that job to India .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's called tradmarking.
It's usually financially superior to patenting.....Secret Plan for 2012: elect Bobby Jindal (gov, Louisiana) as president, then offshore that job to India.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756555</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255618320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This may turn off a few cynics, but there is more to gain in life than money. I'd be proud if I came up with something that moved society forward. Who knows, you may get hired for a lucrative job developing your technology.<br> <br>

And no, I'm not saying that this approach is right for everyone in every situation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This may turn off a few cynics , but there is more to gain in life than money .
I 'd be proud if I came up with something that moved society forward .
Who knows , you may get hired for a lucrative job developing your technology .
And no , I 'm not saying that this approach is right for everyone in every situation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This may turn off a few cynics, but there is more to gain in life than money.
I'd be proud if I came up with something that moved society forward.
Who knows, you may get hired for a lucrative job developing your technology.
And no, I'm not saying that this approach is right for everyone in every situation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756579</id>
	<title>Publish!</title>
	<author>MathFox</author>
	<datestamp>1255618440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If it would be hard for you to find the $50.000 to patent it, you won't have the $5.000.000 to enforce your patent in court.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If it would be hard for you to find the $ 50.000 to patent it , you wo n't have the $ 5.000.000 to enforce your patent in court .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it would be hard for you to find the $50.000 to patent it, you won't have the $5.000.000 to enforce your patent in court.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757819</id>
	<title>Patents are not that expensive.</title>
	<author>MM-tng</author>
	<datestamp>1255623480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can apply for a patent online in Europe. www.epoline.org. You just register and get a smartcard identification + reader sent to your home. This is free by the way. Imagine that. You then write a patent. There is all sorts of documentation on how to do this properly and you have loads of examples of patents online. For a Dutch patent you pay 80 euro. That is it, no that is not a typo. You know what it cost at a patent bureau. 5000,- for 15 sheets of paper max. that is some nice profit. So again just cut out the middlemen and especially if it is a lawyer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can apply for a patent online in Europe .
www.epoline.org. You just register and get a smartcard identification + reader sent to your home .
This is free by the way .
Imagine that .
You then write a patent .
There is all sorts of documentation on how to do this properly and you have loads of examples of patents online .
For a Dutch patent you pay 80 euro .
That is it , no that is not a typo .
You know what it cost at a patent bureau .
5000,- for 15 sheets of paper max .
that is some nice profit .
So again just cut out the middlemen and especially if it is a lawyer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can apply for a patent online in Europe.
www.epoline.org. You just register and get a smartcard identification + reader sent to your home.
This is free by the way.
Imagine that.
You then write a patent.
There is all sorts of documentation on how to do this properly and you have loads of examples of patents online.
For a Dutch patent you pay 80 euro.
That is it, no that is not a typo.
You know what it cost at a patent bureau.
5000,- for 15 sheets of paper max.
that is some nice profit.
So again just cut out the middlemen and especially if it is a lawyer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757649</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255622820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I once had an idea to patent, but couldn't build a prototype at the time, due to job and high prices to implement.  I spoke with a patent attorney.  I generally dislike lawyers.  When I found out I'd have to sue everyone who used the patent, in order to keep it, I decided against the patent idea.  Several years later someone patented it.  A dozen or so years later, it came to market.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I once had an idea to patent , but could n't build a prototype at the time , due to job and high prices to implement .
I spoke with a patent attorney .
I generally dislike lawyers .
When I found out I 'd have to sue everyone who used the patent , in order to keep it , I decided against the patent idea .
Several years later someone patented it .
A dozen or so years later , it came to market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I once had an idea to patent, but couldn't build a prototype at the time, due to job and high prices to implement.
I spoke with a patent attorney.
I generally dislike lawyers.
When I found out I'd have to sue everyone who used the patent, in order to keep it, I decided against the patent idea.
Several years later someone patented it.
A dozen or so years later, it came to market.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756373</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756737</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255619220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To sum up,</p><p>1. publish<br>2. If someone shows interest, patent (you have 1 year after publication to do that)<br>3. ???<br>4. Power and money!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To sum up,1 .
publish2. If someone shows interest , patent ( you have 1 year after publication to do that ) 3 .
? ? ? 4. Power and money !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To sum up,1.
publish2. If someone shows interest, patent (you have 1 year after publication to do that)3.
???4. Power and money!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756507</id>
	<title>Obvious?</title>
	<author>Gudeldar</author>
	<datestamp>1255618080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is your invention obvious? If not, patent it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is your invention obvious ?
If not , patent it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is your invention obvious?
If not, patent it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29760133</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>zach\_the\_lizard</author>
	<datestamp>1255633440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Suing people is kind of the point of patents. Someone else uses the same idea, you get to use the force of law against them, assuming your patent is valid. Otherwise, I don't think there's a point, save for defensive purposes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Suing people is kind of the point of patents .
Someone else uses the same idea , you get to use the force of law against them , assuming your patent is valid .
Otherwise , I do n't think there 's a point , save for defensive purposes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Suing people is kind of the point of patents.
Someone else uses the same idea, you get to use the force of law against them, assuming your patent is valid.
Otherwise, I don't think there's a point, save for defensive purposes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756335</id>
	<title>That's quite a subjective question.</title>
	<author>tehniobium</author>
	<datestamp>1255617240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's a very hard question to answer, as it depends solely on just how good your idea is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br><br>Perhaps you could consider # of people who will use an implementation of your idea and multiply that by some very small number, to get an idea of how much you'll make.<br><br>Of course, if your idea is better, both numbers will increase. And yes, I know I am stating the obvious...</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a very hard question to answer , as it depends solely on just how good your idea is : ) Perhaps you could consider # of people who will use an implementation of your idea and multiply that by some very small number , to get an idea of how much you 'll make.Of course , if your idea is better , both numbers will increase .
And yes , I know I am stating the obvious.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a very hard question to answer, as it depends solely on just how good your idea is :)Perhaps you could consider # of people who will use an implementation of your idea and multiply that by some very small number, to get an idea of how much you'll make.Of course, if your idea is better, both numbers will increase.
And yes, I know I am stating the obvious...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756425</id>
	<title>check if somebody else has already had the idea.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255617660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First search the online patent databases. You'd be amazed at what other people have already thought of.<br>If somebody has already had a similar idea, the question is moot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First search the online patent databases .
You 'd be amazed at what other people have already thought of.If somebody has already had a similar idea , the question is moot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First search the online patent databases.
You'd be amazed at what other people have already thought of.If somebody has already had a similar idea, the question is moot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757033</id>
	<title>With all my decades of education, with all my wit,</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1255620360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>all my intelligence and experience from my time on this earth, i will put my opinion as elaborately and as eloquently i can in the form below :</p><p>fuck that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>all my intelligence and experience from my time on this earth , i will put my opinion as elaborately and as eloquently i can in the form below : fuck that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>all my intelligence and experience from my time on this earth, i will put my opinion as elaborately and as eloquently i can in the form below :fuck that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29762291</id>
	<title>Re:The choice</title>
	<author>Libertarian001</author>
	<datestamp>1255600620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The "natural right" to recognition applies as far as you take steps to see your name attached.  You have the right to tell everyone that it was your idea and to take action against those who fraudulently claim otherwise.  You do not have a right to any sort of financial gain as a result of your idea.  Once ideas are shared they become the property of everyone who experiences them.  One cannot unlearn that information.  "Intelectual Property" laws are a legal fiction to pander to one's sense of entitlement for engaging in an endeavor that would have been performed anyway.  Note that I did not say that one should NOT be compensated, just that it's not a right.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The " natural right " to recognition applies as far as you take steps to see your name attached .
You have the right to tell everyone that it was your idea and to take action against those who fraudulently claim otherwise .
You do not have a right to any sort of financial gain as a result of your idea .
Once ideas are shared they become the property of everyone who experiences them .
One can not unlearn that information .
" Intelectual Property " laws are a legal fiction to pander to one 's sense of entitlement for engaging in an endeavor that would have been performed anyway .
Note that I did not say that one should NOT be compensated , just that it 's not a right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "natural right" to recognition applies as far as you take steps to see your name attached.
You have the right to tell everyone that it was your idea and to take action against those who fraudulently claim otherwise.
You do not have a right to any sort of financial gain as a result of your idea.
Once ideas are shared they become the property of everyone who experiences them.
One cannot unlearn that information.
"Intelectual Property" laws are a legal fiction to pander to one's sense of entitlement for engaging in an endeavor that would have been performed anyway.
Note that I did not say that one should NOT be compensated, just that it's not a right.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756997</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756345</id>
	<title>Patent if it's practical, publish if it's risky.</title>
	<author>Xiph</author>
	<datestamp>1255617300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you patent, it'll be expensive.<br>If you don't patent, but end up making it, someone else will patent it and sue you, that will be more expensive.<br>However, if it'll never really be marketable, publish, someone might think oooo nifty, and hire you because it sounds great.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you patent , it 'll be expensive.If you do n't patent , but end up making it , someone else will patent it and sue you , that will be more expensive.However , if it 'll never really be marketable , publish , someone might think oooo nifty , and hire you because it sounds great .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you patent, it'll be expensive.If you don't patent, but end up making it, someone else will patent it and sue you, that will be more expensive.However, if it'll never really be marketable, publish, someone might think oooo nifty, and hire you because it sounds great.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756449</id>
	<title>Patenting doesn't have to be expensive, buuuut...</title>
	<author>Tobor the Eighth Man</author>
	<datestamp>1255617780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe the only unavoidable cost of getting a patent is the filing fee (and the issuing fee, if it's accepted), but that only amounts to a few hundred dollars. There are maintenance fees every few years, and while these are a bit more expensive, it's not an insurmountable expense. All the prior work research and everything can be done by an individual, assuming they're determined and resourceful, although depending on the nature of the patent that could get real tricky.</p><p>What you should really ask is, "What's the purpose of getting this patent?" Having a patent doesn't automatically protect you from people stealing the idea, or ensure that you'll be duly compensated if someone decides to use it. The most onerous part of the patenting and licensing process comes after you get the patent - patent battles can go on for years or decades, and there's no guarantee that you'll win any compensation after almost unavoidably spending a ton of money to fight the good fight, often against people with far more resources than yourself.</p><p>If you think you can really do something with your invention and are willing to take on the entirely separate and probably even more difficult task of marketing the invention to a company and getting them to distribute it or license it, then a patent is probably something to seriously consider. If you want to patent it because it's your idea and you're proud of it, but you don't necessarily see yourself pursuing it in a commercial sense, then in my opinion you're probably better off just publishing it and taking satisfaction in the fact that you're contributing to the knowledge base.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe the only unavoidable cost of getting a patent is the filing fee ( and the issuing fee , if it 's accepted ) , but that only amounts to a few hundred dollars .
There are maintenance fees every few years , and while these are a bit more expensive , it 's not an insurmountable expense .
All the prior work research and everything can be done by an individual , assuming they 're determined and resourceful , although depending on the nature of the patent that could get real tricky.What you should really ask is , " What 's the purpose of getting this patent ?
" Having a patent does n't automatically protect you from people stealing the idea , or ensure that you 'll be duly compensated if someone decides to use it .
The most onerous part of the patenting and licensing process comes after you get the patent - patent battles can go on for years or decades , and there 's no guarantee that you 'll win any compensation after almost unavoidably spending a ton of money to fight the good fight , often against people with far more resources than yourself.If you think you can really do something with your invention and are willing to take on the entirely separate and probably even more difficult task of marketing the invention to a company and getting them to distribute it or license it , then a patent is probably something to seriously consider .
If you want to patent it because it 's your idea and you 're proud of it , but you do n't necessarily see yourself pursuing it in a commercial sense , then in my opinion you 're probably better off just publishing it and taking satisfaction in the fact that you 're contributing to the knowledge base .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe the only unavoidable cost of getting a patent is the filing fee (and the issuing fee, if it's accepted), but that only amounts to a few hundred dollars.
There are maintenance fees every few years, and while these are a bit more expensive, it's not an insurmountable expense.
All the prior work research and everything can be done by an individual, assuming they're determined and resourceful, although depending on the nature of the patent that could get real tricky.What you should really ask is, "What's the purpose of getting this patent?
" Having a patent doesn't automatically protect you from people stealing the idea, or ensure that you'll be duly compensated if someone decides to use it.
The most onerous part of the patenting and licensing process comes after you get the patent - patent battles can go on for years or decades, and there's no guarantee that you'll win any compensation after almost unavoidably spending a ton of money to fight the good fight, often against people with far more resources than yourself.If you think you can really do something with your invention and are willing to take on the entirely separate and probably even more difficult task of marketing the invention to a company and getting them to distribute it or license it, then a patent is probably something to seriously consider.
If you want to patent it because it's your idea and you're proud of it, but you don't necessarily see yourself pursuing it in a commercial sense, then in my opinion you're probably better off just publishing it and taking satisfaction in the fact that you're contributing to the knowledge base.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756675</id>
	<title>Re:You can do both</title>
	<author>MobyDisk</author>
	<datestamp>1255618980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had an IP lawyer tell me that the provisional patent is completely pointless.  You don't have to file a provisional patent to get this protection.  You can publish, then patent up to a year later and your idea is still protected.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had an IP lawyer tell me that the provisional patent is completely pointless .
You do n't have to file a provisional patent to get this protection .
You can publish , then patent up to a year later and your idea is still protected .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had an IP lawyer tell me that the provisional patent is completely pointless.
You don't have to file a provisional patent to get this protection.
You can publish, then patent up to a year later and your idea is still protected.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757731</id>
	<title>Re:Patent if it's practical, publish if it's risky</title>
	<author>sonnejw0</author>
	<datestamp>1255623180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, if you keep a good notebook of your work that's dated and signed by yourself, and for extra precauction a "reader's signature" of a second, unrelated party, it doesn't matter if your publish your work, you can still prove that you have precedent and can challenge any patents lawsuits filed at a later time and take over the patent for yourself.
<br> <br>
No need to file or publish as long as you keep good notes. Of course, if you thought it was a million dollar idea, why are you not patenting it? Also, you have up to 1 year after publishing work to file a patent on it. One year after publishing it's up for grabs.  So if you think you only need a year to find out if it's a million dollar idea and not spend the pennies on patenting it, you can publish it.  If you can't end up marketing it, at least you have increased the knowledge base of humanity, for which your name will forever be lauded and praised.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , if you keep a good notebook of your work that 's dated and signed by yourself , and for extra precauction a " reader 's signature " of a second , unrelated party , it does n't matter if your publish your work , you can still prove that you have precedent and can challenge any patents lawsuits filed at a later time and take over the patent for yourself .
No need to file or publish as long as you keep good notes .
Of course , if you thought it was a million dollar idea , why are you not patenting it ?
Also , you have up to 1 year after publishing work to file a patent on it .
One year after publishing it 's up for grabs .
So if you think you only need a year to find out if it 's a million dollar idea and not spend the pennies on patenting it , you can publish it .
If you ca n't end up marketing it , at least you have increased the knowledge base of humanity , for which your name will forever be lauded and praised .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, if you keep a good notebook of your work that's dated and signed by yourself, and for extra precauction a "reader's signature" of a second, unrelated party, it doesn't matter if your publish your work, you can still prove that you have precedent and can challenge any patents lawsuits filed at a later time and take over the patent for yourself.
No need to file or publish as long as you keep good notes.
Of course, if you thought it was a million dollar idea, why are you not patenting it?
Also, you have up to 1 year after publishing work to file a patent on it.
One year after publishing it's up for grabs.
So if you think you only need a year to find out if it's a million dollar idea and not spend the pennies on patenting it, you can publish it.
If you can't end up marketing it, at least you have increased the knowledge base of humanity, for which your name will forever be lauded and praised.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756369</id>
	<title>Do what a lot of us do</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255617360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So what do you folks out there do when you come up with a good idea but don't have the means to patent it or market it to someone who will pay for the patenting process?</p></div><p>Do what a lot of us do. Longingly let out a sigh while you're enjoying a pint of beer or your favorite alcohol on the rocks. Painfully hold onto it until you either</p><p>a. Realize that it isn't worth patenting</p><p>or</p><p>b. Find some way to make it profitable</p><p>I don't know the specifics of your idea, but that's what I would (and am currently doing). If someone beats me to it and publishes one of my ideas, it wasn't all that novel. Until then, It gives me something to think about while not doing my 9-5.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So what do you folks out there do when you come up with a good idea but do n't have the means to patent it or market it to someone who will pay for the patenting process ? Do what a lot of us do .
Longingly let out a sigh while you 're enjoying a pint of beer or your favorite alcohol on the rocks .
Painfully hold onto it until you eithera .
Realize that it is n't worth patentingorb .
Find some way to make it profitableI do n't know the specifics of your idea , but that 's what I would ( and am currently doing ) .
If someone beats me to it and publishes one of my ideas , it was n't all that novel .
Until then , It gives me something to think about while not doing my 9-5 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what do you folks out there do when you come up with a good idea but don't have the means to patent it or market it to someone who will pay for the patenting process?Do what a lot of us do.
Longingly let out a sigh while you're enjoying a pint of beer or your favorite alcohol on the rocks.
Painfully hold onto it until you eithera.
Realize that it isn't worth patentingorb.
Find some way to make it profitableI don't know the specifics of your idea, but that's what I would (and am currently doing).
If someone beats me to it and publishes one of my ideas, it wasn't all that novel.
Until then, It gives me something to think about while not doing my 9-5.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29760961</id>
	<title>You don't need to choose</title>
	<author>Jewbird</author>
	<datestamp>1255637280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Thankfully, America allows 1st to invent so the lone inventor can profit.

The danger of going public before patenting, as I've found out the hard way with 6uitar God, is that infringers from the third world will be at your doorstep before any customers will.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thankfully , America allows 1st to invent so the lone inventor can profit .
The danger of going public before patenting , as I 've found out the hard way with 6uitar God , is that infringers from the third world will be at your doorstep before any customers will .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thankfully, America allows 1st to invent so the lone inventor can profit.
The danger of going public before patenting, as I've found out the hard way with 6uitar God, is that infringers from the third world will be at your doorstep before any customers will.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759661</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1255631520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> And somehow you profit from that. I'm still trying to figure out that last part, but if a million slashdotters say something it can't be wrong.</p></div></blockquote><p>You go on a speaking tour, apparently.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And somehow you profit from that .
I 'm still trying to figure out that last part , but if a million slashdotters say something it ca n't be wrong.You go on a speaking tour , apparently .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> And somehow you profit from that.
I'm still trying to figure out that last part, but if a million slashdotters say something it can't be wrong.You go on a speaking tour, apparently.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756991</id>
	<title>Patent in another country</title>
	<author>thePig</author>
	<datestamp>1255620180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another option that you can think of is to patent it in another country. Say, India/China etc.<br>The patent will cost you very less - even if you go for a big shot lawyer, it will cost you in the range of 2000$ or less.</p><p>Now, once it is patented, you go about implementing the same and try to sell it in the patented country.<br>If it makes enough money, you can apply for a PCS form to patent it internationally or maybe in US alone.</p><p>Please note that patenting usually does not guarantee you any income. The stats suggest upwards of 90\% of patents does not generate any revenue at all.<br>But still, it could be because most patents are done by companies trying to increase their image in the market.<br>Also, it would be better for you try to implement the same before you patent it, since you might otherwise miss some important points which crop up during implementation.</p><p>Another point is that - if you are a techie - is that even implementing is somewhat easier compared to marketing and selling.<br>Best of luck anyways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another option that you can think of is to patent it in another country .
Say , India/China etc.The patent will cost you very less - even if you go for a big shot lawyer , it will cost you in the range of 2000 $ or less.Now , once it is patented , you go about implementing the same and try to sell it in the patented country.If it makes enough money , you can apply for a PCS form to patent it internationally or maybe in US alone.Please note that patenting usually does not guarantee you any income .
The stats suggest upwards of 90 \ % of patents does not generate any revenue at all.But still , it could be because most patents are done by companies trying to increase their image in the market.Also , it would be better for you try to implement the same before you patent it , since you might otherwise miss some important points which crop up during implementation.Another point is that - if you are a techie - is that even implementing is somewhat easier compared to marketing and selling.Best of luck anyways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another option that you can think of is to patent it in another country.
Say, India/China etc.The patent will cost you very less - even if you go for a big shot lawyer, it will cost you in the range of 2000$ or less.Now, once it is patented, you go about implementing the same and try to sell it in the patented country.If it makes enough money, you can apply for a PCS form to patent it internationally or maybe in US alone.Please note that patenting usually does not guarantee you any income.
The stats suggest upwards of 90\% of patents does not generate any revenue at all.But still, it could be because most patents are done by companies trying to increase their image in the market.Also, it would be better for you try to implement the same before you patent it, since you might otherwise miss some important points which crop up during implementation.Another point is that - if you are a techie - is that even implementing is somewhat easier compared to marketing and selling.Best of luck anyways.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756857</id>
	<title>Re:Tell Me</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255619700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So do I patent or copyright the patent process?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So do I patent or copyright the patent process ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So do I patent or copyright the patent process?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756309</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29765437</id>
	<title>Patent?</title>
	<author>edibobb</author>
	<datestamp>1255622760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you choose to patent software, may the fleas of 10,000 camels infest your armpits.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you choose to patent software , may the fleas of 10,000 camels infest your armpits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you choose to patent software, may the fleas of 10,000 camels infest your armpits.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756511</id>
	<title>Re:You can do both</title>
	<author>werfu</author>
	<datestamp>1255618140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, and prior art is always possible when defending against someone who would grab your idea and patent it. Publishing also help a lot with prior art.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , and prior art is always possible when defending against someone who would grab your idea and patent it .
Publishing also help a lot with prior art .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, and prior art is always possible when defending against someone who would grab your idea and patent it.
Publishing also help a lot with prior art.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757317</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>Lachlan Hunt</author>
	<datestamp>1255621380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a simple 3 step process:</p><p>1. Publish details of brilliant invention.<br>2. ???<br>3. Profit.</p><p>On a more serious note, I don't support patents at all and suggest that, if you do decide to patent it, you at least attach some sort of irrevocable, royalty free licence to it, which would at least let you keep it around for defensive purposes in case you get sued. Just don't become a patent troll.</p><p>Also, perhaps instead of simply publishing it publicly for everyone immediately, you could find a company involved in a similar field or a manufacturer that you can work with to get your product developed, whatever that may be.  That would help to give you the first-to-market advantage, assuming your invention really is an original idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a simple 3 step process : 1 .
Publish details of brilliant invention.2 .
? ? ? 3. Profit.On a more serious note , I do n't support patents at all and suggest that , if you do decide to patent it , you at least attach some sort of irrevocable , royalty free licence to it , which would at least let you keep it around for defensive purposes in case you get sued .
Just do n't become a patent troll.Also , perhaps instead of simply publishing it publicly for everyone immediately , you could find a company involved in a similar field or a manufacturer that you can work with to get your product developed , whatever that may be .
That would help to give you the first-to-market advantage , assuming your invention really is an original idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a simple 3 step process:1.
Publish details of brilliant invention.2.
???3. Profit.On a more serious note, I don't support patents at all and suggest that, if you do decide to patent it, you at least attach some sort of irrevocable, royalty free licence to it, which would at least let you keep it around for defensive purposes in case you get sued.
Just don't become a patent troll.Also, perhaps instead of simply publishing it publicly for everyone immediately, you could find a company involved in a similar field or a manufacturer that you can work with to get your product developed, whatever that may be.
That would help to give you the first-to-market advantage, assuming your invention really is an original idea.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757387</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255621620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Geeks on slashdot get to have it both ways - getting rich while making the world a better place.  Try starting a company that offers good jobs to deserving employees, and see you you feel as they raise good kids and enjoy their work.  Invent something worthwhile, and force the world to benefit from it - you'd be very surprised at how often the world passes by perfectly good ides.  Only the inventor can champion new technologies properly.  Be a do-gooder: start companies, develop open source projects when it makes sense, improve the world with your ideas.  Being a big geek rocks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Geeks on slashdot get to have it both ways - getting rich while making the world a better place .
Try starting a company that offers good jobs to deserving employees , and see you you feel as they raise good kids and enjoy their work .
Invent something worthwhile , and force the world to benefit from it - you 'd be very surprised at how often the world passes by perfectly good ides .
Only the inventor can champion new technologies properly .
Be a do-gooder : start companies , develop open source projects when it makes sense , improve the world with your ideas .
Being a big geek rocks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Geeks on slashdot get to have it both ways - getting rich while making the world a better place.
Try starting a company that offers good jobs to deserving employees, and see you you feel as they raise good kids and enjoy their work.
Invent something worthwhile, and force the world to benefit from it - you'd be very surprised at how often the world passes by perfectly good ides.
Only the inventor can champion new technologies properly.
Be a do-gooder: start companies, develop open source projects when it makes sense, improve the world with your ideas.
Being a big geek rocks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756959</id>
	<title>Re:Big Money comes from Big Risks.</title>
	<author>cgenman</author>
	<datestamp>1255620060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you have an idea worth turning into a business, you'll probably need to raise 10 or 20 thousand minimum in initial seed money anyway.  Your investors take the risk, and you avoid spending any of your own money.  Build prototypes, get patents, and attempt to raise full funding with that seed money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have an idea worth turning into a business , you 'll probably need to raise 10 or 20 thousand minimum in initial seed money anyway .
Your investors take the risk , and you avoid spending any of your own money .
Build prototypes , get patents , and attempt to raise full funding with that seed money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have an idea worth turning into a business, you'll probably need to raise 10 or 20 thousand minimum in initial seed money anyway.
Your investors take the risk, and you avoid spending any of your own money.
Build prototypes, get patents, and attempt to raise full funding with that seed money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756349</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29758059</id>
	<title>Do both</title>
	<author>fain0v</author>
	<datestamp>1255624500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone that actually went through this experience.  Write your paper and your patent.  Submit your paper, and submit a provisional patent.  The patent is now pending.  If your paper is popular, then you can make a decision to patent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone that actually went through this experience .
Write your paper and your patent .
Submit your paper , and submit a provisional patent .
The patent is now pending .
If your paper is popular , then you can make a decision to patent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone that actually went through this experience.
Write your paper and your patent.
Submit your paper, and submit a provisional patent.
The patent is now pending.
If your paper is popular, then you can make a decision to patent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757775</id>
	<title>Re:Patent if it's practical, publish if it's risky</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1255623360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>well, if you are to market, they will ahve a hard time with a paten case against you.</p><p>The real risk is some company making millions of them and charging below your costs for the product.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>well , if you are to market , they will ahve a hard time with a paten case against you.The real risk is some company making millions of them and charging below your costs for the product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>well, if you are to market, they will ahve a hard time with a paten case against you.The real risk is some company making millions of them and charging below your costs for the product.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759187</id>
	<title>I went through this precise process recently</title>
	<author>giladpn</author>
	<datestamp>1255629360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To add to the points made above. Its NOT expensive to start this process, and you can build it so the cost is under control, and the bigger chunks of $$ come only later (when you are more confident of the business potential and you want to spend the money). Specifically:

1. it does not matter whether you are a US citizen or not, you can still file a provisional patent in the USPTO and get full rights
2. As people said, a provisional for a small entity costs $110 these days and can be done from the USPTO website
3. even better - there is an international process that allows you to patent worldwide country by country. Its expensive, so do not start with it. But going to the USPTO and filing a provisional counts for "setting the start date" for that entire process (!) So if you decide to do it later - you will be happy you started small.
4. even a non-provisional patent is not too expensive to start. You can do it yourself (!) To be honest the lawyers are more necessary here since the exact wording is more important - but see next point.
5. you can word both the provisional and non-provisional yourself, and get a lawyer only when the patent office sends you the inevitable challenges and questions (about 1-2 years after you started the process). I know someone who does it that way and he gets the real "biggest bang for the buck".

Good luck. And don't worry about the "patents are evil" crowd. You have plenty of good company coping with the same questions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>To add to the points made above .
Its NOT expensive to start this process , and you can build it so the cost is under control , and the bigger chunks of $ $ come only later ( when you are more confident of the business potential and you want to spend the money ) .
Specifically : 1. it does not matter whether you are a US citizen or not , you can still file a provisional patent in the USPTO and get full rights 2 .
As people said , a provisional for a small entity costs $ 110 these days and can be done from the USPTO website 3. even better - there is an international process that allows you to patent worldwide country by country .
Its expensive , so do not start with it .
But going to the USPTO and filing a provisional counts for " setting the start date " for that entire process ( !
) So if you decide to do it later - you will be happy you started small .
4. even a non-provisional patent is not too expensive to start .
You can do it yourself ( !
) To be honest the lawyers are more necessary here since the exact wording is more important - but see next point .
5. you can word both the provisional and non-provisional yourself , and get a lawyer only when the patent office sends you the inevitable challenges and questions ( about 1-2 years after you started the process ) .
I know someone who does it that way and he gets the real " biggest bang for the buck " .
Good luck .
And do n't worry about the " patents are evil " crowd .
You have plenty of good company coping with the same questions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To add to the points made above.
Its NOT expensive to start this process, and you can build it so the cost is under control, and the bigger chunks of $$ come only later (when you are more confident of the business potential and you want to spend the money).
Specifically:

1. it does not matter whether you are a US citizen or not, you can still file a provisional patent in the USPTO and get full rights
2.
As people said, a provisional for a small entity costs $110 these days and can be done from the USPTO website
3. even better - there is an international process that allows you to patent worldwide country by country.
Its expensive, so do not start with it.
But going to the USPTO and filing a provisional counts for "setting the start date" for that entire process (!
) So if you decide to do it later - you will be happy you started small.
4. even a non-provisional patent is not too expensive to start.
You can do it yourself (!
) To be honest the lawyers are more necessary here since the exact wording is more important - but see next point.
5. you can word both the provisional and non-provisional yourself, and get a lawyer only when the patent office sends you the inevitable challenges and questions (about 1-2 years after you started the process).
I know someone who does it that way and he gets the real "biggest bang for the buck".
Good luck.
And don't worry about the "patents are evil" crowd.
You have plenty of good company coping with the same questions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757601</id>
	<title>Re:Small entity?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255622520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How much time would your abandoned patent application be viable?</p><p>I have had several ideas I've wanted to patent but thought the entire process to be against the individual. I hear a lot of stories of people who go through the process to just have it killed by a corporation contesting the patent simply to stall it in court.</p><p>A small entity like myself can not afford to battle it out in court. I'd be out of money and no longer able to move the idea forward.  It is really depressing when you look up the stories of how many people this has happened to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How much time would your abandoned patent application be viable ? I have had several ideas I 've wanted to patent but thought the entire process to be against the individual .
I hear a lot of stories of people who go through the process to just have it killed by a corporation contesting the patent simply to stall it in court.A small entity like myself can not afford to battle it out in court .
I 'd be out of money and no longer able to move the idea forward .
It is really depressing when you look up the stories of how many people this has happened to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much time would your abandoned patent application be viable?I have had several ideas I've wanted to patent but thought the entire process to be against the individual.
I hear a lot of stories of people who go through the process to just have it killed by a corporation contesting the patent simply to stall it in court.A small entity like myself can not afford to battle it out in court.
I'd be out of money and no longer able to move the idea forward.
It is really depressing when you look up the stories of how many people this has happened to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757085</id>
	<title>Re:You can do both</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255620540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The provisional patent basically extends the time window by a year.  You can Publish and file either a full or provisional patent within one year.  If you filed provisional, then you have an additional year before you file the full application.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The provisional patent basically extends the time window by a year .
You can Publish and file either a full or provisional patent within one year .
If you filed provisional , then you have an additional year before you file the full application .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The provisional patent basically extends the time window by a year.
You can Publish and file either a full or provisional patent within one year.
If you filed provisional, then you have an additional year before you file the full application.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756675</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756819</id>
	<title>I was just burned by something stupid like this</title>
	<author>Omnifarious</author>
	<datestamp>1255619580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I spent a good 3 weeks implementing an interesting idea that the person who came up with decided he wanted to patent.  My conditions for working on it were that either the thing be treated as a trade secret or that it be allowed to be used in any Open Source application of any kind.  He wanted some stupid mealy-mouthed non-commercial clause license.</p><p>In my opinion, no matter what the guy thinks of his idea, he will never make any money off of it by trying to keep such tight fisted control over it.  His best bet was to create an interesting implementation with his name on it and make money from consulting.  Now the stupid idea is going to languish in obscurity because he's too afraid to actually get it out there in a way people will ever use.</p><p>The best way to make sure an idea is never used is to patent it. Chaum's digital cash algorithms have a lot of interesting uses that have little to do with digital cash, but nobody will touch them because of the patents.  Patenting, IMHO, is the kiss of death for an idea, especially one related to mathematics or software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I spent a good 3 weeks implementing an interesting idea that the person who came up with decided he wanted to patent .
My conditions for working on it were that either the thing be treated as a trade secret or that it be allowed to be used in any Open Source application of any kind .
He wanted some stupid mealy-mouthed non-commercial clause license.In my opinion , no matter what the guy thinks of his idea , he will never make any money off of it by trying to keep such tight fisted control over it .
His best bet was to create an interesting implementation with his name on it and make money from consulting .
Now the stupid idea is going to languish in obscurity because he 's too afraid to actually get it out there in a way people will ever use.The best way to make sure an idea is never used is to patent it .
Chaum 's digital cash algorithms have a lot of interesting uses that have little to do with digital cash , but nobody will touch them because of the patents .
Patenting , IMHO , is the kiss of death for an idea , especially one related to mathematics or software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I spent a good 3 weeks implementing an interesting idea that the person who came up with decided he wanted to patent.
My conditions for working on it were that either the thing be treated as a trade secret or that it be allowed to be used in any Open Source application of any kind.
He wanted some stupid mealy-mouthed non-commercial clause license.In my opinion, no matter what the guy thinks of his idea, he will never make any money off of it by trying to keep such tight fisted control over it.
His best bet was to create an interesting implementation with his name on it and make money from consulting.
Now the stupid idea is going to languish in obscurity because he's too afraid to actually get it out there in a way people will ever use.The best way to make sure an idea is never used is to patent it.
Chaum's digital cash algorithms have a lot of interesting uses that have little to do with digital cash, but nobody will touch them because of the patents.
Patenting, IMHO, is the kiss of death for an idea, especially one related to mathematics or software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29758509</id>
	<title>Ideas don't make money...</title>
	<author>BurtCrep</author>
	<datestamp>1255626360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...but their implementations do. Except for rare cases, profit is directly proportional to the amount of effort put in implementation and marketing of your idea. Therefore:</p><p>1) publish the idea. Odds are, no one will pay attention to it anyway.<br>2) start working on its implementation, get the details figured out, remove the obstacles<br>3) start making a fuss about it, attract attention<br>4) if someone else tries to patent it, they can't: idea is not original because your initial publication is prior art</p><p>If you make money in this endeavor, bonus. If not, you'll have learned many things, perhaps made new friends, found partners, attracted some attention, made yourself a name, found a goal in life, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...but their implementations do .
Except for rare cases , profit is directly proportional to the amount of effort put in implementation and marketing of your idea .
Therefore : 1 ) publish the idea .
Odds are , no one will pay attention to it anyway.2 ) start working on its implementation , get the details figured out , remove the obstacles3 ) start making a fuss about it , attract attention4 ) if someone else tries to patent it , they ca n't : idea is not original because your initial publication is prior artIf you make money in this endeavor , bonus .
If not , you 'll have learned many things , perhaps made new friends , found partners , attracted some attention , made yourself a name , found a goal in life , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...but their implementations do.
Except for rare cases, profit is directly proportional to the amount of effort put in implementation and marketing of your idea.
Therefore:1) publish the idea.
Odds are, no one will pay attention to it anyway.2) start working on its implementation, get the details figured out, remove the obstacles3) start making a fuss about it, attract attention4) if someone else tries to patent it, they can't: idea is not original because your initial publication is prior artIf you make money in this endeavor, bonus.
If not, you'll have learned many things, perhaps made new friends, found partners, attracted some attention, made yourself a name, found a goal in life, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756417</id>
	<title>They're the same</title>
	<author>vekrander</author>
	<datestamp>1255617540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you put them into the formula, you reach profit equally as fast.</p><p>Step 1: Patent</p><p>Step 2: ???</p><p>Step 3: Profit</p><p>OR</p><p>Step 1: Publish</p><p>Step 2: ???</p><p>Step 3: Profit</p><p>See?  They're the same.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you put them into the formula , you reach profit equally as fast.Step 1 : PatentStep 2 : ? ?
? Step 3 : ProfitORStep 1 : PublishStep 2 : ? ?
? Step 3 : ProfitSee ?
They 're the same .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you put them into the formula, you reach profit equally as fast.Step 1: PatentStep 2: ??
?Step 3: ProfitORStep 1: PublishStep 2: ??
?Step 3: ProfitSee?
They're the same.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756483</id>
	<title>Re:The choice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255617900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So what your saying is, it's great for this inventor to work really hard and come up with a new idea that a large, multinational corporation can swoop in and get a bunch of money on for free.</p><p>Oh wait, it doesn't sound so "decent" and "moral" when the multinational corporation boogeyman suddenly appears to capture all the money now does it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So what your saying is , it 's great for this inventor to work really hard and come up with a new idea that a large , multinational corporation can swoop in and get a bunch of money on for free.Oh wait , it does n't sound so " decent " and " moral " when the multinational corporation boogeyman suddenly appears to capture all the money now does it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what your saying is, it's great for this inventor to work really hard and come up with a new idea that a large, multinational corporation can swoop in and get a bunch of money on for free.Oh wait, it doesn't sound so "decent" and "moral" when the multinational corporation boogeyman suddenly appears to capture all the money now does it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756357</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756929</id>
	<title>Re:You can do both</title>
	<author>rvw</author>
	<datestamp>1255620000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the Netherlands you can deposit the design at a local tax office. Yes you read that correct. They will file it for you, and it can be used as official proof in a court case. It costs about $50. This is not a patent, but it could protect you against one. Possibly other countries offer a similar service.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the Netherlands you can deposit the design at a local tax office .
Yes you read that correct .
They will file it for you , and it can be used as official proof in a court case .
It costs about $ 50 .
This is not a patent , but it could protect you against one .
Possibly other countries offer a similar service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the Netherlands you can deposit the design at a local tax office.
Yes you read that correct.
They will file it for you, and it can be used as official proof in a court case.
It costs about $50.
This is not a patent, but it could protect you against one.
Possibly other countries offer a similar service.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29769605</id>
	<title>Re:You can do both</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255712760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you file a Provisional Patent you have to implement it within a year.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you file a Provisional Patent you have to implement it within a year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you file a Provisional Patent you have to implement it within a year.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757961</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1255624020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see no hint as to what BorgeStrand wants to patent.  Is it some PHYSICAL ITEM OR METHOD??  Some NEW GADGET?  If not, you need to look at COPYRIGHT LAW.  "Patent or publish".  It sounds to me like you, like most of corporate America, haven't a clue as to what a patent is SUPPOSED to be.</p><p>BorgeStrand needs to get off our lawns, at least until he's able to come back and post a meaningful question.  "Patent or publish?"  Just plain stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see no hint as to what BorgeStrand wants to patent .
Is it some PHYSICAL ITEM OR METHOD ? ?
Some NEW GADGET ?
If not , you need to look at COPYRIGHT LAW .
" Patent or publish " .
It sounds to me like you , like most of corporate America , have n't a clue as to what a patent is SUPPOSED to be.BorgeStrand needs to get off our lawns , at least until he 's able to come back and post a meaningful question .
" Patent or publish ?
" Just plain stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see no hint as to what BorgeStrand wants to patent.
Is it some PHYSICAL ITEM OR METHOD??
Some NEW GADGET?
If not, you need to look at COPYRIGHT LAW.
"Patent or publish".
It sounds to me like you, like most of corporate America, haven't a clue as to what a patent is SUPPOSED to be.BorgeStrand needs to get off our lawns, at least until he's able to come back and post a meaningful question.
"Patent or publish?
"  Just plain stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29764097</id>
	<title>Re:You can do both</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255609380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A provisional patent grants you right to the earlier filing date.  If you don't file the provisional, then your filing date will be the date you submit the application.  Filing the provisional might make your patent application a little bit harder to reject.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A provisional patent grants you right to the earlier filing date .
If you do n't file the provisional , then your filing date will be the date you submit the application .
Filing the provisional might make your patent application a little bit harder to reject .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A provisional patent grants you right to the earlier filing date.
If you don't file the provisional, then your filing date will be the date you submit the application.
Filing the provisional might make your patent application a little bit harder to reject.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756675</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29760037</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>Obfuscant</author>
	<datestamp>1255633080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Consider that X $ will be made from your idea, whatever you do. Would you rather A: Give those money to a rich corp. or B: Have those money for yourself...</i> <p>
Consider that an unpatented idea can be used by multiple corporations in competition, and that by not having to pay royalties all of those companies can sell the product for less because it costs them less to produce while still making the same profit.</p><p>
Yes, a single source can charge what they want and pocket the money they'd have paid in royalties, but any competitor who comes along and sells the same product for less will beat them in the market.</p><p>
I.e., your either/or situation isn't that clear cut. It's not a zero sum game. And, as another poster commented, the woman who patented the idea for moving patients made zero because nobody used her idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Consider that X $ will be made from your idea , whatever you do .
Would you rather A : Give those money to a rich corp. or B : Have those money for yourself.. . Consider that an unpatented idea can be used by multiple corporations in competition , and that by not having to pay royalties all of those companies can sell the product for less because it costs them less to produce while still making the same profit .
Yes , a single source can charge what they want and pocket the money they 'd have paid in royalties , but any competitor who comes along and sells the same product for less will beat them in the market .
I.e. , your either/or situation is n't that clear cut .
It 's not a zero sum game .
And , as another poster commented , the woman who patented the idea for moving patients made zero because nobody used her idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Consider that X $ will be made from your idea, whatever you do.
Would you rather A: Give those money to a rich corp. or B: Have those money for yourself... 
Consider that an unpatented idea can be used by multiple corporations in competition, and that by not having to pay royalties all of those companies can sell the product for less because it costs them less to produce while still making the same profit.
Yes, a single source can charge what they want and pocket the money they'd have paid in royalties, but any competitor who comes along and sells the same product for less will beat them in the market.
I.e., your either/or situation isn't that clear cut.
It's not a zero sum game.
And, as another poster commented, the woman who patented the idea for moving patients made zero because nobody used her idea.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29764447</id>
	<title>lesser of 2 evils</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255612140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Publish == play the politics to get what you want (and if it's not en-vogue among the academics... forgetaboutit).
<br>
Patent == play the dollars to get what you want (and if you don't have enough investors/$$$ lined up... forgetaboutit).
<br>
<br>
The system is so intertwined that it's not worth it either way. At least open sourcing it, you can get <i>street credit</i>, and maybe become a successful consultant, but no real protection in the end.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Publish = = play the politics to get what you want ( and if it 's not en-vogue among the academics... forgetaboutit ) . Patent = = play the dollars to get what you want ( and if you do n't have enough investors/ $ $ $ lined up... forgetaboutit ) . The system is so intertwined that it 's not worth it either way .
At least open sourcing it , you can get street credit , and maybe become a successful consultant , but no real protection in the end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Publish == play the politics to get what you want (and if it's not en-vogue among the academics... forgetaboutit).

Patent == play the dollars to get what you want (and if you don't have enough investors/$$$ lined up... forgetaboutit).


The system is so intertwined that it's not worth it either way.
At least open sourcing it, you can get street credit, and maybe become a successful consultant, but no real protection in the end.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29761633</id>
	<title>File a provisional patent ($100, no lawyers)...</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1255597560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...and then try to sell it.  A provisional patent is good for a year.</p><p>BTW Patenting is publishing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and then try to sell it .
A provisional patent is good for a year.BTW Patenting is publishing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and then try to sell it.
A provisional patent is good for a year.BTW Patenting is publishing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29766447</id>
	<title>This used to be the same thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255726500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Patenting system used to be both: a mean of protecting your invention for given time, and a way to publish your invention and science behind it so that other people can read it. It used to be a way of spreading knowledge. This was a fair deal and your question in early XX century wouldn't make any sense.</p><p>Now, that the patent system evolved -- you need to ask yourself a question if it's worth using! You, inventor! This system was ment to serve you and promote progress. If it's not doing it's job anymore -- why does it exist in this form?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Patenting system used to be both : a mean of protecting your invention for given time , and a way to publish your invention and science behind it so that other people can read it .
It used to be a way of spreading knowledge .
This was a fair deal and your question in early XX century would n't make any sense.Now , that the patent system evolved -- you need to ask yourself a question if it 's worth using !
You , inventor !
This system was ment to serve you and promote progress .
If it 's not doing it 's job anymore -- why does it exist in this form ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Patenting system used to be both: a mean of protecting your invention for given time, and a way to publish your invention and science behind it so that other people can read it.
It used to be a way of spreading knowledge.
This was a fair deal and your question in early XX century wouldn't make any sense.Now, that the patent system evolved -- you need to ask yourself a question if it's worth using!
You, inventor!
This system was ment to serve you and promote progress.
If it's not doing it's job anymore -- why does it exist in this form?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757409</id>
	<title>Patent vs Publish</title>
	<author>mschirmer</author>
	<datestamp>1255621680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most slashdot-ers would look at this in a "Patent is evil" kind of way and dismiss the question all together. I'm not sure it's that simple.</p><p>I don't see a patent as a way to protect your IP, but more as a way to protect you and your family from patent trolls. The current state of the US patent office shows us that not patenting could land you and your big idea in court fighting to prove that it's actually your idea. I would suggest if you have an idea worth patenting, you are serious about developing it, and you can find the money to actually patent it, you probably should. If someone comes out with a similar product based on a similar concept a few weeks/years later, then you have to gauge that hurdle when you get there, but most of the time, unless it's a blatant "he stole that idea from my work bench and duplicated it ad has now made billions from it" type of case (that would be stealing), then I don't really see a whole lot of point fighting it. It is quite possible for 2 people on opposite sides of the country/world to have the same idea at roughly the same time, without prior communication or knowledge of the other persons idea.</p><p>So the way I see it, if you patent your idea, you aren't patenting it to protect Joe Blow @ China industries from reproducing a half-baked copy, you are registering your idea so Joe Blow can't reproduce your idea and then turn around and patent troll you all the way to court.</p><p>And on the topic of patent morality, if you create something and spend time developing it, you deserve some sort of renumeration for your time and effort. IMO. Patenting it is just a step along the way that needs to happen to protect hard working people and their ideas from patent trolls and "I created it first" law suits. Unfortunately it's a broken system that needs to be fixed, but it's still the only one inventors have right now to protect their ideas from being stolen.</p><p>Opinions? Is there any other reason you would patent an idea other than what I've already suggested?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most slashdot-ers would look at this in a " Patent is evil " kind of way and dismiss the question all together .
I 'm not sure it 's that simple.I do n't see a patent as a way to protect your IP , but more as a way to protect you and your family from patent trolls .
The current state of the US patent office shows us that not patenting could land you and your big idea in court fighting to prove that it 's actually your idea .
I would suggest if you have an idea worth patenting , you are serious about developing it , and you can find the money to actually patent it , you probably should .
If someone comes out with a similar product based on a similar concept a few weeks/years later , then you have to gauge that hurdle when you get there , but most of the time , unless it 's a blatant " he stole that idea from my work bench and duplicated it ad has now made billions from it " type of case ( that would be stealing ) , then I do n't really see a whole lot of point fighting it .
It is quite possible for 2 people on opposite sides of the country/world to have the same idea at roughly the same time , without prior communication or knowledge of the other persons idea.So the way I see it , if you patent your idea , you are n't patenting it to protect Joe Blow @ China industries from reproducing a half-baked copy , you are registering your idea so Joe Blow ca n't reproduce your idea and then turn around and patent troll you all the way to court.And on the topic of patent morality , if you create something and spend time developing it , you deserve some sort of renumeration for your time and effort .
IMO. Patenting it is just a step along the way that needs to happen to protect hard working people and their ideas from patent trolls and " I created it first " law suits .
Unfortunately it 's a broken system that needs to be fixed , but it 's still the only one inventors have right now to protect their ideas from being stolen.Opinions ?
Is there any other reason you would patent an idea other than what I 've already suggested ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most slashdot-ers would look at this in a "Patent is evil" kind of way and dismiss the question all together.
I'm not sure it's that simple.I don't see a patent as a way to protect your IP, but more as a way to protect you and your family from patent trolls.
The current state of the US patent office shows us that not patenting could land you and your big idea in court fighting to prove that it's actually your idea.
I would suggest if you have an idea worth patenting, you are serious about developing it, and you can find the money to actually patent it, you probably should.
If someone comes out with a similar product based on a similar concept a few weeks/years later, then you have to gauge that hurdle when you get there, but most of the time, unless it's a blatant "he stole that idea from my work bench and duplicated it ad has now made billions from it" type of case (that would be stealing), then I don't really see a whole lot of point fighting it.
It is quite possible for 2 people on opposite sides of the country/world to have the same idea at roughly the same time, without prior communication or knowledge of the other persons idea.So the way I see it, if you patent your idea, you aren't patenting it to protect Joe Blow @ China industries from reproducing a half-baked copy, you are registering your idea so Joe Blow can't reproduce your idea and then turn around and patent troll you all the way to court.And on the topic of patent morality, if you create something and spend time developing it, you deserve some sort of renumeration for your time and effort.
IMO. Patenting it is just a step along the way that needs to happen to protect hard working people and their ideas from patent trolls and "I created it first" law suits.
Unfortunately it's a broken system that needs to be fixed, but it's still the only one inventors have right now to protect their ideas from being stolen.Opinions?
Is there any other reason you would patent an idea other than what I've already suggested?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757567</id>
	<title>Provisional patent</title>
	<author>MSTCrow5429</author>
	<datestamp>1255622400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>File a provisional patent application, only $100 if you're a small entity; requires disclosures, but not claims, and you have one year to begin the patent prosecution process.  See 35 USC Section 111(b).</htmltext>
<tokenext>File a provisional patent application , only $ 100 if you 're a small entity ; requires disclosures , but not claims , and you have one year to begin the patent prosecution process .
See 35 USC Section 111 ( b ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>File a provisional patent application, only $100 if you're a small entity; requires disclosures, but not claims, and you have one year to begin the patent prosecution process.
See 35 USC Section 111(b).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29760187</id>
	<title>Re:Small entity?</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1255633680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>How much time would your abandoned patent application be viable?</p></div></blockquote><p>Unless someone's recently proven that time is circular, prior is prior forever.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How much time would your abandoned patent application be viable ? Unless someone 's recently proven that time is circular , prior is prior forever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much time would your abandoned patent application be viable?Unless someone's recently proven that time is circular, prior is prior forever.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757601</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756465</id>
	<title>Develop it AND get a provisional patent</title>
	<author>gr8\_phk</author>
	<datestamp>1255617840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The sum of the standard responses will be:<br>
1) Develop the thing on your own. If you can't prototype it you don't have anything of interest to the folks you want to sell to.<br>
2) Get a provisional patent - they're cheap and should protect you while trying to pimp your prototype.<br>
3) There is NO market for pure ideas - if that's all you've got, nobody cares enough to pay you for that. Bringing something to market is far-far harder than coming up with an idea.<br> <br>
Being a person whose has ideas and these same questions for a long time, I can say I agree with all the above.<br> <br>
If it's possible for slashdot to agree on anything, it's this. Oh, and you'll get the "patents are evil" stuff too, but that doesn't actually answer your question.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The sum of the standard responses will be : 1 ) Develop the thing on your own .
If you ca n't prototype it you do n't have anything of interest to the folks you want to sell to .
2 ) Get a provisional patent - they 're cheap and should protect you while trying to pimp your prototype .
3 ) There is NO market for pure ideas - if that 's all you 've got , nobody cares enough to pay you for that .
Bringing something to market is far-far harder than coming up with an idea .
Being a person whose has ideas and these same questions for a long time , I can say I agree with all the above .
If it 's possible for slashdot to agree on anything , it 's this .
Oh , and you 'll get the " patents are evil " stuff too , but that does n't actually answer your question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sum of the standard responses will be:
1) Develop the thing on your own.
If you can't prototype it you don't have anything of interest to the folks you want to sell to.
2) Get a provisional patent - they're cheap and should protect you while trying to pimp your prototype.
3) There is NO market for pure ideas - if that's all you've got, nobody cares enough to pay you for that.
Bringing something to market is far-far harder than coming up with an idea.
Being a person whose has ideas and these same questions for a long time, I can say I agree with all the above.
If it's possible for slashdot to agree on anything, it's this.
Oh, and you'll get the "patents are evil" stuff too, but that doesn't actually answer your question.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756877</id>
	<title>Publish, don't patent</title>
	<author>nwanua</author>
	<datestamp>1255619760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The following assumes this is a hardware patent you have in mind.</p><p>The days of patenting for the lone inventor are over, seriously. And what if you do patent it? You'll end up spend the bulk of your time, brain power, and meager resources defending it. Unless you have the resources to hire a cadre of lawyers, you won't even be able to defend infringements. And we've not even discussed international patents... which still won't stop Chinese knockoffs (at least not for the foreseeable future).</p><p>For insights into why the patent process is seldom useful for individuals:<br><a href="http://bit.ly/12x7EJ" title="bit.ly">http://bit.ly/12x7EJ</a> [bit.ly]<br><a href="http://bit.ly/3glVfj" title="bit.ly">http://bit.ly/3glVfj</a> [bit.ly]</p><p>There is a lot of money being made in the (e.g.) open-hardware arena: you make a gadget (brilliant idea or not), sell a couple hundred or thousand, make some money and move on to the next thing (see Arduino, Chumby, SeeedStudio, Adafruit, Sparkfun). These guys publish the specs of pretty much everything they make, with enough detail that anybody else could copy it. Yet they are rather successful for small (closely held) businesses.</p><p>So my advice is:<br>Step 1: make<br>Step 2: publish (gets you publicity for your gadget BTW)<br>Step 3: open up a store front and sell<br>Step 4: ??? (there is no step 4)<br>Step 5: Profit!!!</p><p>It's easy to get anything manufactured in small quantities these days. And by the time somebody bothers to clone your idea (which kind proves that you must have made money, in a backhanded compliment kind of way), the hope is you've made some cash, and can spend your time innovating on the next great thing.</p><p>This is the secret to happiness my friend.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The following assumes this is a hardware patent you have in mind.The days of patenting for the lone inventor are over , seriously .
And what if you do patent it ?
You 'll end up spend the bulk of your time , brain power , and meager resources defending it .
Unless you have the resources to hire a cadre of lawyers , you wo n't even be able to defend infringements .
And we 've not even discussed international patents... which still wo n't stop Chinese knockoffs ( at least not for the foreseeable future ) .For insights into why the patent process is seldom useful for individuals : http : //bit.ly/12x7EJ [ bit.ly ] http : //bit.ly/3glVfj [ bit.ly ] There is a lot of money being made in the ( e.g .
) open-hardware arena : you make a gadget ( brilliant idea or not ) , sell a couple hundred or thousand , make some money and move on to the next thing ( see Arduino , Chumby , SeeedStudio , Adafruit , Sparkfun ) .
These guys publish the specs of pretty much everything they make , with enough detail that anybody else could copy it .
Yet they are rather successful for small ( closely held ) businesses.So my advice is : Step 1 : makeStep 2 : publish ( gets you publicity for your gadget BTW ) Step 3 : open up a store front and sellStep 4 : ? ? ?
( there is no step 4 ) Step 5 : Profit ! !
! It 's easy to get anything manufactured in small quantities these days .
And by the time somebody bothers to clone your idea ( which kind proves that you must have made money , in a backhanded compliment kind of way ) , the hope is you 've made some cash , and can spend your time innovating on the next great thing.This is the secret to happiness my friend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The following assumes this is a hardware patent you have in mind.The days of patenting for the lone inventor are over, seriously.
And what if you do patent it?
You'll end up spend the bulk of your time, brain power, and meager resources defending it.
Unless you have the resources to hire a cadre of lawyers, you won't even be able to defend infringements.
And we've not even discussed international patents... which still won't stop Chinese knockoffs (at least not for the foreseeable future).For insights into why the patent process is seldom useful for individuals:http://bit.ly/12x7EJ [bit.ly]http://bit.ly/3glVfj [bit.ly]There is a lot of money being made in the (e.g.
) open-hardware arena: you make a gadget (brilliant idea or not), sell a couple hundred or thousand, make some money and move on to the next thing (see Arduino, Chumby, SeeedStudio, Adafruit, Sparkfun).
These guys publish the specs of pretty much everything they make, with enough detail that anybody else could copy it.
Yet they are rather successful for small (closely held) businesses.So my advice is:Step 1: makeStep 2: publish (gets you publicity for your gadget BTW)Step 3: open up a store front and sellStep 4: ???
(there is no step 4)Step 5: Profit!!
!It's easy to get anything manufactured in small quantities these days.
And by the time somebody bothers to clone your idea (which kind proves that you must have made money, in a backhanded compliment kind of way), the hope is you've made some cash, and can spend your time innovating on the next great thing.This is the secret to happiness my friend.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756451</id>
	<title>Ignorance is bliss.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255617780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Patenting, like copyright, is an antiquated system that allows the greedy/privileged to profit off of ignorance.</p><p>In other words, if you can afford it, do it while it's still legal.  Nobody's going to judge, and rich people are usually dicks anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Patenting , like copyright , is an antiquated system that allows the greedy/privileged to profit off of ignorance.In other words , if you can afford it , do it while it 's still legal .
Nobody 's going to judge , and rich people are usually dicks anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Patenting, like copyright, is an antiquated system that allows the greedy/privileged to profit off of ignorance.In other words, if you can afford it, do it while it's still legal.
Nobody's going to judge, and rich people are usually dicks anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756489</id>
	<title>Publish and then offer to work on it for a fee.</title>
	<author>Hungus</author>
	<datestamp>1255617960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>given that in the US "A patent for an invention is a grant of property rights by the U.S. Government" (from the US Patent Office), Publishing would just provide for prior art to remove a future patent by someone else. The only way to protect your invention for future monetary gain by yourself is to patent it. Now, that being said is what you have developed actually patentable or is it one of the silly things we see constant surfacing by patent trolls?</p><p>
&nbsp; One way of making some money and also helping out your fellow humans would be to publish your invention and make yourself available for "for fee consulting" or development of your invention. This is a win win situation as whomever has the money to bring it to market will want your intellectual knowledge to go along with the design for any future adaptations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>given that in the US " A patent for an invention is a grant of property rights by the U.S. Government " ( from the US Patent Office ) , Publishing would just provide for prior art to remove a future patent by someone else .
The only way to protect your invention for future monetary gain by yourself is to patent it .
Now , that being said is what you have developed actually patentable or is it one of the silly things we see constant surfacing by patent trolls ?
  One way of making some money and also helping out your fellow humans would be to publish your invention and make yourself available for " for fee consulting " or development of your invention .
This is a win win situation as whomever has the money to bring it to market will want your intellectual knowledge to go along with the design for any future adaptations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>given that in the US "A patent for an invention is a grant of property rights by the U.S. Government" (from the US Patent Office), Publishing would just provide for prior art to remove a future patent by someone else.
The only way to protect your invention for future monetary gain by yourself is to patent it.
Now, that being said is what you have developed actually patentable or is it one of the silly things we see constant surfacing by patent trolls?
  One way of making some money and also helping out your fellow humans would be to publish your invention and make yourself available for "for fee consulting" or development of your invention.
This is a win win situation as whomever has the money to bring it to market will want your intellectual knowledge to go along with the design for any future adaptations.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756567</id>
	<title>In the UK</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255618380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the UK, fortunately you have <a href="http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1073858796" title="businesslink.gov.uk" rel="nofollow">a nice little website</a> [businesslink.gov.uk] that tells you all about how to take ideas you have and turn them into money.<br>
<br>
Fortunately, they also have a section on <a href="http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?r.s=tl&amp;r.l1=1073858796&amp;r.lc=en&amp;topicId=1073859014" title="businesslink.gov.uk" rel="nofollow">protecting your intellectual property</a> [businesslink.gov.uk] that tells you how to do that as well (in terms of patenting, NDAs, Trademarks and Design right).  I'm sure the processes aren't quite as straightforward as they look like they are here, but you get the point.<br>
<br>
On a personal note - the question of whether to patent is a difficult one.  In the internet era it would seem easier to exploit the innovation yourself before anyone else can come up with a similar, but slightly different idea that they then make a shed load of money out of.<br>
<br>
Disclaimer:  I work for BusinessLink</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the UK , fortunately you have a nice little website [ businesslink.gov.uk ] that tells you all about how to take ideas you have and turn them into money .
Fortunately , they also have a section on protecting your intellectual property [ businesslink.gov.uk ] that tells you how to do that as well ( in terms of patenting , NDAs , Trademarks and Design right ) .
I 'm sure the processes are n't quite as straightforward as they look like they are here , but you get the point .
On a personal note - the question of whether to patent is a difficult one .
In the internet era it would seem easier to exploit the innovation yourself before anyone else can come up with a similar , but slightly different idea that they then make a shed load of money out of .
Disclaimer : I work for BusinessLink</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the UK, fortunately you have a nice little website [businesslink.gov.uk] that tells you all about how to take ideas you have and turn them into money.
Fortunately, they also have a section on protecting your intellectual property [businesslink.gov.uk] that tells you how to do that as well (in terms of patenting, NDAs, Trademarks and Design right).
I'm sure the processes aren't quite as straightforward as they look like they are here, but you get the point.
On a personal note - the question of whether to patent is a difficult one.
In the internet era it would seem easier to exploit the innovation yourself before anyone else can come up with a similar, but slightly different idea that they then make a shed load of money out of.
Disclaimer:  I work for BusinessLink</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756373</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>nomadic</author>
	<datestamp>1255617360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>In a less sarcastic, slightly more useful vein, patenting something is expensive but not prohibitively so.  A few thousand dollars, unless you get unlucky and the patent office starts getting all resistant.  Though, because of the state of the legal profession today you might be able to find a patent lawyer cheap.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a less sarcastic , slightly more useful vein , patenting something is expensive but not prohibitively so .
A few thousand dollars , unless you get unlucky and the patent office starts getting all resistant .
Though , because of the state of the legal profession today you might be able to find a patent lawyer cheap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a less sarcastic, slightly more useful vein, patenting something is expensive but not prohibitively so.
A few thousand dollars, unless you get unlucky and the patent office starts getting all resistant.
Though, because of the state of the legal profession today you might be able to find a patent lawyer cheap.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756281</id>
	<title>FIRST!!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255617060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FIRST!!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FIRST ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FIRST!!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756941</id>
	<title>Re:The choice</title>
	<author>Dishevel</author>
	<datestamp>1255620000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Patents and Copyright are not evil. They are in fact a bonus to our society. The problem is with the ways special interests have warped patent and copyright to serve themselves rather than the public good. The pansy ass posters who think that everything should be given away are for the most part DIPSHITS.
<p>Patent your idea. Then don't go around being an ass about it. Don't try to extend your right for 937 years. Do not sue anyone who comes up with anything close to your idea. And for God's sake do not start that crap where you can amend your patent to cover shit it never did in the first place so you can sue someone.</p><p>
Then you will be a fine upstanding member of the community who dose well and makes money.
</p><p> <b>I win</b> </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Patents and Copyright are not evil .
They are in fact a bonus to our society .
The problem is with the ways special interests have warped patent and copyright to serve themselves rather than the public good .
The pansy ass posters who think that everything should be given away are for the most part DIPSHITS .
Patent your idea .
Then do n't go around being an ass about it .
Do n't try to extend your right for 937 years .
Do not sue anyone who comes up with anything close to your idea .
And for God 's sake do not start that crap where you can amend your patent to cover shit it never did in the first place so you can sue someone .
Then you will be a fine upstanding member of the community who dose well and makes money .
I win</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Patents and Copyright are not evil.
They are in fact a bonus to our society.
The problem is with the ways special interests have warped patent and copyright to serve themselves rather than the public good.
The pansy ass posters who think that everything should be given away are for the most part DIPSHITS.
Patent your idea.
Then don't go around being an ass about it.
Don't try to extend your right for 937 years.
Do not sue anyone who comes up with anything close to your idea.
And for God's sake do not start that crap where you can amend your patent to cover shit it never did in the first place so you can sue someone.
Then you will be a fine upstanding member of the community who dose well and makes money.
I win </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756357</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756407</id>
	<title>You can do both</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255617540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you live in the US, you can do both.  First send in a provisional patent to the USPTO using their electronic filing system (costs $110), then publish your idea.  You have a year to decide to patent the idea or not, and if you decide not to, all you are out is $110.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you live in the US , you can do both .
First send in a provisional patent to the USPTO using their electronic filing system ( costs $ 110 ) , then publish your idea .
You have a year to decide to patent the idea or not , and if you decide not to , all you are out is $ 110 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you live in the US, you can do both.
First send in a provisional patent to the USPTO using their electronic filing system (costs $110), then publish your idea.
You have a year to decide to patent the idea or not, and if you decide not to, all you are out is $110.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756979</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>RiotingPacifist</author>
	<datestamp>1255620180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is slashdot, all <b>software patents (and any patent deemed trivial by the hoard)</b> are evil, and the most profitable thing for you to do would be to to let everyone know the details, and let them all build whatever it is you invented. That way, it gets worked on by different people in an open source way and you get a better ultimate product. If the idea is important/unique enough then you can profit by licensing the patent &amp; designs to others making commercial products out of it (this does prevent open hardware from using your design, but allows hobbyists anyway), however much like people who are restrictive about their patents, you will probably not make any profit eitherway.</p><p>I think most slashdoters like the idea of patents it is only:<br>1) software patents (implementation is already covered by copyright FFS)<br>2) look and feel patents (see 1)<br>3) how the system allows trivial patents<br>4) how patents are often use to stifle competition instead of encourage competition while giving the inventor a fair share.</p><p>So if this guy has a valid patentable idea I for one hope he does get a patent and make money, but also that he re-licenses the patent liberally so that progress in whatever field he works in is not stifled by him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is slashdot , all software patents ( and any patent deemed trivial by the hoard ) are evil , and the most profitable thing for you to do would be to to let everyone know the details , and let them all build whatever it is you invented .
That way , it gets worked on by different people in an open source way and you get a better ultimate product .
If the idea is important/unique enough then you can profit by licensing the patent &amp; designs to others making commercial products out of it ( this does prevent open hardware from using your design , but allows hobbyists anyway ) , however much like people who are restrictive about their patents , you will probably not make any profit eitherway.I think most slashdoters like the idea of patents it is only : 1 ) software patents ( implementation is already covered by copyright FFS ) 2 ) look and feel patents ( see 1 ) 3 ) how the system allows trivial patents4 ) how patents are often use to stifle competition instead of encourage competition while giving the inventor a fair share.So if this guy has a valid patentable idea I for one hope he does get a patent and make money , but also that he re-licenses the patent liberally so that progress in whatever field he works in is not stifled by him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is slashdot, all software patents (and any patent deemed trivial by the hoard) are evil, and the most profitable thing for you to do would be to to let everyone know the details, and let them all build whatever it is you invented.
That way, it gets worked on by different people in an open source way and you get a better ultimate product.
If the idea is important/unique enough then you can profit by licensing the patent &amp; designs to others making commercial products out of it (this does prevent open hardware from using your design, but allows hobbyists anyway), however much like people who are restrictive about their patents, you will probably not make any profit eitherway.I think most slashdoters like the idea of patents it is only:1) software patents (implementation is already covered by copyright FFS)2) look and feel patents (see 1)3) how the system allows trivial patents4) how patents are often use to stifle competition instead of encourage competition while giving the inventor a fair share.So if this guy has a valid patentable idea I for one hope he does get a patent and make money, but also that he re-licenses the patent liberally so that progress in whatever field he works in is not stifled by him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29761019</id>
	<title>Re:A word of advice</title>
	<author>Jewbird</author>
	<datestamp>1255637580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I love how a good patent might not make you any money but a good article might.  Actually it's more like a patent will make you money if it's good enough to steal and the best article isn't worth the electrons on the screen even with universal adoption.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I love how a good patent might not make you any money but a good article might .
Actually it 's more like a patent will make you money if it 's good enough to steal and the best article is n't worth the electrons on the screen even with universal adoption .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love how a good patent might not make you any money but a good article might.
Actually it's more like a patent will make you money if it's good enough to steal and the best article isn't worth the electrons on the screen even with universal adoption.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29768493</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255707300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I too have ideas for better mousetraps. However I don't have the resources nor the desire to start a company.</p><p>My vision of invention heaven would be if there were companies that would take a well described idea, patent it,  and market it, taking the bulk of the profit for themselves.  To me having 5\% of a large pie is better than having the entirety of a mini-tart.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I too have ideas for better mousetraps .
However I do n't have the resources nor the desire to start a company.My vision of invention heaven would be if there were companies that would take a well described idea , patent it , and market it , taking the bulk of the profit for themselves .
To me having 5 \ % of a large pie is better than having the entirety of a mini-tart .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I too have ideas for better mousetraps.
However I don't have the resources nor the desire to start a company.My vision of invention heaven would be if there were companies that would take a well described idea, patent it,  and market it, taking the bulk of the profit for themselves.
To me having 5\% of a large pie is better than having the entirety of a mini-tart.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757011</id>
	<title>Re:Patent if it's practical, publish if it's risky</title>
	<author>tburkhol</author>
	<datestamp>1255620240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you patent, it'll be expensive.</p></div><p>In the US, you can apply for a <a href="http://www.uspto.gov/patents/resources/types/provapp.jsp" title="uspto.gov" rel="nofollow">provisional patent</a> [uspto.gov] for $110.  This is a simplified, essentially abstract patent application you can use to hold your place in the patent line while you go off and find someone to commercialize/help you commercialize your idea.</p><p>You've still got a year after publication to make a provisional filing, but you also get a year after the provisional filing before the full application.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you patent , it 'll be expensive.In the US , you can apply for a provisional patent [ uspto.gov ] for $ 110 .
This is a simplified , essentially abstract patent application you can use to hold your place in the patent line while you go off and find someone to commercialize/help you commercialize your idea.You 've still got a year after publication to make a provisional filing , but you also get a year after the provisional filing before the full application .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you patent, it'll be expensive.In the US, you can apply for a provisional patent [uspto.gov] for $110.
This is a simplified, essentially abstract patent application you can use to hold your place in the patent line while you go off and find someone to commercialize/help you commercialize your idea.You've still got a year after publication to make a provisional filing, but you also get a year after the provisional filing before the full application.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29762611</id>
	<title>Ideas are not valuable</title>
	<author>cjonslashdot</author>
	<datestamp>1255601640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ideas for products or services are not valuable: they are dime-a-dozen. The only ideas that are valuable are scientific breakthroughs. Product or service ideas are not valuable because the real challenge is to overcome the barriers to implementing an idea. The barriers include patent procedures, development costs, marketing costs, competition from entrenched players, etc. It is an unfair world in this regard, because established companies have a tremendous advantage; and if it were easy everyone would be inventing all the time because lots and lots of people have ideas. If you can overcome the challenges of filing a patent, then you might have something - if the idea is a good one. Even better, produce and market the product or service. That's the real challenge. Thinking of an idea is not a challenge. And no, no one will pay you for your good ideas unless you are a proven producer of ideas that have made money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ideas for products or services are not valuable : they are dime-a-dozen .
The only ideas that are valuable are scientific breakthroughs .
Product or service ideas are not valuable because the real challenge is to overcome the barriers to implementing an idea .
The barriers include patent procedures , development costs , marketing costs , competition from entrenched players , etc .
It is an unfair world in this regard , because established companies have a tremendous advantage ; and if it were easy everyone would be inventing all the time because lots and lots of people have ideas .
If you can overcome the challenges of filing a patent , then you might have something - if the idea is a good one .
Even better , produce and market the product or service .
That 's the real challenge .
Thinking of an idea is not a challenge .
And no , no one will pay you for your good ideas unless you are a proven producer of ideas that have made money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ideas for products or services are not valuable: they are dime-a-dozen.
The only ideas that are valuable are scientific breakthroughs.
Product or service ideas are not valuable because the real challenge is to overcome the barriers to implementing an idea.
The barriers include patent procedures, development costs, marketing costs, competition from entrenched players, etc.
It is an unfair world in this regard, because established companies have a tremendous advantage; and if it were easy everyone would be inventing all the time because lots and lots of people have ideas.
If you can overcome the challenges of filing a patent, then you might have something - if the idea is a good one.
Even better, produce and market the product or service.
That's the real challenge.
Thinking of an idea is not a challenge.
And no, no one will pay you for your good ideas unless you are a proven producer of ideas that have made money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29764253</id>
	<title>Sorry I don't have mod points today</title>
	<author>jeko</author>
	<datestamp>1255610580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well DoD, the trolls with mod points are apparently out in force today. Don't let the Ayn Rand/Sarah Palin acolytes get you down. A bunch of us out here still understand the point you're making.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well DoD , the trolls with mod points are apparently out in force today .
Do n't let the Ayn Rand/Sarah Palin acolytes get you down .
A bunch of us out here still understand the point you 're making .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well DoD, the trolls with mod points are apparently out in force today.
Don't let the Ayn Rand/Sarah Palin acolytes get you down.
A bunch of us out here still understand the point you're making.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756357</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757059</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>WhiplashII</author>
	<datestamp>1255620480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Although that is an admirable sentiment, it does not work out in real life very often.</p><p>If I have money to invest, and then invest in something that helps humanity but doesn't provide a return on investment - I no longer have any money to invest on the next idea to help humanity.  On the other hand, if I invest in something that shows a return while helping humanity I can then invest in more and more projects.  This is how capitalism selects things helpful to mankind - something has to be helpful enough that you can extract value to reinvest, or it isn't done.  The flow of capital naturally selects those that make good decisions.  Exponential growth of goodness is the standard outcome, and is why we live in such an amazing society.</p><p>While the patent may not help you, if it is truly a useful idea patenting it makes it more likely to be developed (assuming a sizable initial investment is required).  Open source software does not require a high, up front investment - so it can avoid this problem.  But most things really become more valuable for mankind if patented, so it can actually get implemented.</p><p>Of course, that said, most inventors greatly overestimate the value of their ideas... myself included.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Although that is an admirable sentiment , it does not work out in real life very often.If I have money to invest , and then invest in something that helps humanity but does n't provide a return on investment - I no longer have any money to invest on the next idea to help humanity .
On the other hand , if I invest in something that shows a return while helping humanity I can then invest in more and more projects .
This is how capitalism selects things helpful to mankind - something has to be helpful enough that you can extract value to reinvest , or it is n't done .
The flow of capital naturally selects those that make good decisions .
Exponential growth of goodness is the standard outcome , and is why we live in such an amazing society.While the patent may not help you , if it is truly a useful idea patenting it makes it more likely to be developed ( assuming a sizable initial investment is required ) .
Open source software does not require a high , up front investment - so it can avoid this problem .
But most things really become more valuable for mankind if patented , so it can actually get implemented.Of course , that said , most inventors greatly overestimate the value of their ideas... myself included .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Although that is an admirable sentiment, it does not work out in real life very often.If I have money to invest, and then invest in something that helps humanity but doesn't provide a return on investment - I no longer have any money to invest on the next idea to help humanity.
On the other hand, if I invest in something that shows a return while helping humanity I can then invest in more and more projects.
This is how capitalism selects things helpful to mankind - something has to be helpful enough that you can extract value to reinvest, or it isn't done.
The flow of capital naturally selects those that make good decisions.
Exponential growth of goodness is the standard outcome, and is why we live in such an amazing society.While the patent may not help you, if it is truly a useful idea patenting it makes it more likely to be developed (assuming a sizable initial investment is required).
Open source software does not require a high, up front investment - so it can avoid this problem.
But most things really become more valuable for mankind if patented, so it can actually get implemented.Of course, that said, most inventors greatly overestimate the value of their ideas... myself included.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29769845</id>
	<title>Re:Small entity?</title>
	<author>stephen\_at\_pt\_richmo</author>
	<datestamp>1255713900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Now THAT was a helpful answer.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now THAT was a helpful answer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now THAT was a helpful answer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756997</id>
	<title>Re:The choice</title>
	<author>elnyka</author>
	<datestamp>1255620240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Your choice is whether to be selfish or decent.  Are you going to stand on the shoulders of giants, but sue anyone who would stand on yours?</p><p>How you proceed <b>says a bit about who you are</b>.</p></div><p>Bullshit morality by proxy combined with rhetorical, ideologotardic nonsense that can neither be proved, nor argued for logically. </p><p>

Prove to me in a logically consistent manner that decency and selflessness are <b>inevitably inconsistent and incompatible</b> with one's natural right to get remunerated/recognized for one's original and hard-earned intellectual work, and to protect that natural right should the individual desires so. </p><p>

Prove to me also that absolute selflessness as a trait is obligatory for one to be decent (as opposed to a voluntary act might increase, but never defines decency), and that the exhibition of such a trait mandates ones to surrender one's natural right get remunerated for one's originally created intellectual work.</p><p>

Prove that, and we can talk. Your ability to prove this, and your willingness to respect other peoples' rights will say  not a bit, but a lot about you, your intellect and your decency.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your choice is whether to be selfish or decent .
Are you going to stand on the shoulders of giants , but sue anyone who would stand on yours ? How you proceed says a bit about who you are.Bullshit morality by proxy combined with rhetorical , ideologotardic nonsense that can neither be proved , nor argued for logically .
Prove to me in a logically consistent manner that decency and selflessness are inevitably inconsistent and incompatible with one 's natural right to get remunerated/recognized for one 's original and hard-earned intellectual work , and to protect that natural right should the individual desires so .
Prove to me also that absolute selflessness as a trait is obligatory for one to be decent ( as opposed to a voluntary act might increase , but never defines decency ) , and that the exhibition of such a trait mandates ones to surrender one 's natural right get remunerated for one 's originally created intellectual work .
Prove that , and we can talk .
Your ability to prove this , and your willingness to respect other peoples ' rights will say not a bit , but a lot about you , your intellect and your decency .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your choice is whether to be selfish or decent.
Are you going to stand on the shoulders of giants, but sue anyone who would stand on yours?How you proceed says a bit about who you are.Bullshit morality by proxy combined with rhetorical, ideologotardic nonsense that can neither be proved, nor argued for logically.
Prove to me in a logically consistent manner that decency and selflessness are inevitably inconsistent and incompatible with one's natural right to get remunerated/recognized for one's original and hard-earned intellectual work, and to protect that natural right should the individual desires so.
Prove to me also that absolute selflessness as a trait is obligatory for one to be decent (as opposed to a voluntary act might increase, but never defines decency), and that the exhibition of such a trait mandates ones to surrender one's natural right get remunerated for one's originally created intellectual work.
Prove that, and we can talk.
Your ability to prove this, and your willingness to respect other peoples' rights will say  not a bit, but a lot about you, your intellect and your decency.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756357</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759499</id>
	<title>10th time is the charm</title>
	<author>EE\_Vandy\_Undergrad</author>
	<datestamp>1255630860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>my good friend works for a patent lawyer revising his clients' submissions to the patent office.
<br>


He says that a patent usually gets rejected 10 or so times before it is accepted.
<br>
<br>
The office will likely tell you that there is already a similar existing patent or that you have not proven its uniqueness thoroughly. Each visit to your lawyer costs big mulah I assume</htmltext>
<tokenext>my good friend works for a patent lawyer revising his clients ' submissions to the patent office .
He says that a patent usually gets rejected 10 or so times before it is accepted .
The office will likely tell you that there is already a similar existing patent or that you have not proven its uniqueness thoroughly .
Each visit to your lawyer costs big mulah I assume</tokentext>
<sentencetext>my good friend works for a patent lawyer revising his clients' submissions to the patent office.
He says that a patent usually gets rejected 10 or so times before it is accepted.
The office will likely tell you that there is already a similar existing patent or that you have not proven its uniqueness thoroughly.
Each visit to your lawyer costs big mulah I assume</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756437</id>
	<title>Tell us more about your idea</title>
	<author>ggraham412</author>
	<datestamp>1255617720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Tell us more about your idea so we can help.  We'll keep it secret here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tell us more about your idea so we can help .
We 'll keep it secret here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tell us more about your idea so we can help.
We'll keep it secret here.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756433</id>
	<title>Re:The choice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255617660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please! This is just silly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please !
This is just silly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please!
This is just silly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756357</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757365</id>
	<title>Patents are not expensive</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1255621560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it's like 500 bucks for a lone inventor.</p><p>Paying someone to do a patent search is expensive. An expense that's not longer justified, BTW.</p><p>Just patent it; which is a for of publishing.<br>Yes, it might get rejected. OTOH, you can research it yourself pretty decently in a week end and up your odds.</p><p>When patented, you get the added advantage of saying you ahve a patent; which in important to a lot of people with money.<br>Looks good to investors, looks good to employers, looks good to clients.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's like 500 bucks for a lone inventor.Paying someone to do a patent search is expensive .
An expense that 's not longer justified , BTW.Just patent it ; which is a for of publishing.Yes , it might get rejected .
OTOH , you can research it yourself pretty decently in a week end and up your odds.When patented , you get the added advantage of saying you ahve a patent ; which in important to a lot of people with money.Looks good to investors , looks good to employers , looks good to clients .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's like 500 bucks for a lone inventor.Paying someone to do a patent search is expensive.
An expense that's not longer justified, BTW.Just patent it; which is a for of publishing.Yes, it might get rejected.
OTOH, you can research it yourself pretty decently in a week end and up your odds.When patented, you get the added advantage of saying you ahve a patent; which in important to a lot of people with money.Looks good to investors, looks good to employers, looks good to clients.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29763813</id>
	<title>Re:Patent if it's practical, publish if it's risky</title>
	<author>nns6561</author>
	<datestamp>1255607880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This merely postpones the decision for up to one year.  If you do go this route, you should probably publish it too, to prevent someone else from patenting the same thing in the meantime.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This merely postpones the decision for up to one year .
If you do go this route , you should probably publish it too , to prevent someone else from patenting the same thing in the meantime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This merely postpones the decision for up to one year.
If you do go this route, you should probably publish it too, to prevent someone else from patenting the same thing in the meantime.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756457</id>
	<title>a patent isn't valuable per se</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255617780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Patenting can give you the advantage of being able to show that the idea is... well... patentable - so if you start a business later on around it, you'd have proof that there's something to protect. But if you won't have the money to finance lawyers and litigation to protect the patent, it won't do you any practical good. A patent is only valuable if you can enforce it - and that burden is entirely on you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Patenting can give you the advantage of being able to show that the idea is... well... patentable - so if you start a business later on around it , you 'd have proof that there 's something to protect .
But if you wo n't have the money to finance lawyers and litigation to protect the patent , it wo n't do you any practical good .
A patent is only valuable if you can enforce it - and that burden is entirely on you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Patenting can give you the advantage of being able to show that the idea is... well... patentable - so if you start a business later on around it, you'd have proof that there's something to protect.
But if you won't have the money to finance lawyers and litigation to protect the patent, it won't do you any practical good.
A patent is only valuable if you can enforce it - and that burden is entirely on you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756831</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255619640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All the 'funny' responses aside... there are options open to you without lots of investment. But beware most of them... Invention companies... most want to do marketing surveys or other scam actions. I've had good luck with think village however you do have to share any profits.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All the 'funny ' responses aside... there are options open to you without lots of investment .
But beware most of them... Invention companies... most want to do marketing surveys or other scam actions .
I 've had good luck with think village however you do have to share any profits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All the 'funny' responses aside... there are options open to you without lots of investment.
But beware most of them... Invention companies... most want to do marketing surveys or other scam actions.
I've had good luck with think village however you do have to share any profits.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29760837</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>Chosen Reject</author>
	<datestamp>1255636800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That, as we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously.</p> </div><p> --Benjamin Franklin</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That , as we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others , we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours ; and this we should do freely and generously .
--Benjamin Franklin</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That, as we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously.
--Benjamin Franklin
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756287</id>
	<title>come on</title>
	<author>nomadic</author>
	<datestamp>1255617120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is slashdot, all patents are evil, and the most profitable thing for you to do would be to to let everyone know the details, and let them all build whatever it is you invented.  That way, it gets worked on by different people in an open source way and you get a better ultimate product.  And somehow you profit from that.  I'm still trying to figure out that last part, but if a million slashdotters say something it can't be wrong.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is slashdot , all patents are evil , and the most profitable thing for you to do would be to to let everyone know the details , and let them all build whatever it is you invented .
That way , it gets worked on by different people in an open source way and you get a better ultimate product .
And somehow you profit from that .
I 'm still trying to figure out that last part , but if a million slashdotters say something it ca n't be wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is slashdot, all patents are evil, and the most profitable thing for you to do would be to to let everyone know the details, and let them all build whatever it is you invented.
That way, it gets worked on by different people in an open source way and you get a better ultimate product.
And somehow you profit from that.
I'm still trying to figure out that last part, but if a million slashdotters say something it can't be wrong.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29763295</id>
	<title>I'm in this situation know, kinda</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255604760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've got a theory (or rather, 7-9 theories in a bundle that works together) that may vastly decrease the cost of page layout when producing a newspaper by semi-automation of the process. I'm thinking on maybe investing my own money by purchasing programming services on e.g. Rentacoder or a similar place or just publishing the theories.
<br> <br>
As I'm unsure of how good the theories will work before I have a practical solution, and I not wanting to quit my job (in a newspaper...), or invest all my money, I'm still pondering what to do.
<br> <br>
On the other side, if it works and I publish it, the cost of producing a newspaper (on paper) will decrease and the world will get more newspapers (or fewer bankrupcies) which is good.
<br> <br>
---<br>
Rupert Murdoch, I need an investment<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've got a theory ( or rather , 7-9 theories in a bundle that works together ) that may vastly decrease the cost of page layout when producing a newspaper by semi-automation of the process .
I 'm thinking on maybe investing my own money by purchasing programming services on e.g .
Rentacoder or a similar place or just publishing the theories .
As I 'm unsure of how good the theories will work before I have a practical solution , and I not wanting to quit my job ( in a newspaper... ) , or invest all my money , I 'm still pondering what to do .
On the other side , if it works and I publish it , the cost of producing a newspaper ( on paper ) will decrease and the world will get more newspapers ( or fewer bankrupcies ) which is good .
--- Rupert Murdoch , I need an investment : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've got a theory (or rather, 7-9 theories in a bundle that works together) that may vastly decrease the cost of page layout when producing a newspaper by semi-automation of the process.
I'm thinking on maybe investing my own money by purchasing programming services on e.g.
Rentacoder or a similar place or just publishing the theories.
As I'm unsure of how good the theories will work before I have a practical solution, and I not wanting to quit my job (in a newspaper...), or invest all my money, I'm still pondering what to do.
On the other side, if it works and I publish it, the cost of producing a newspaper (on paper) will decrease and the world will get more newspapers (or fewer bankrupcies) which is good.
---
Rupert Murdoch, I need an investment :P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757475</id>
	<title>Re:You can do both</title>
	<author>Carbaholic</author>
	<datestamp>1255621980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are goods and bads about provisional patents.</p><p>On the one hand they're cheap, you're protected, and you don't have to disclose your claims yet so you don't have to worry about your invention being made public on the international market. You just get the privilege of claiming patent pending for a year. For inventions like software and electronics that will be superseded within the year anyway a provisional patent may be all that you ever even need.</p><p>The bad thing about them is that you, a layman when it comes to patents, have to file your claims. The claims are by far the most important part of a patent. They define what your product can do, the rest of the patent is just there to describe the invention in barely enough detail to prove that you can actually do what you claim. If you mess up with your claims the patent is worthless. Maybe even worse than worthless because if you disclose claims that don't actually protect your invention the patent will basically be a tutorial on how to do whatever it is you did.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are goods and bads about provisional patents.On the one hand they 're cheap , you 're protected , and you do n't have to disclose your claims yet so you do n't have to worry about your invention being made public on the international market .
You just get the privilege of claiming patent pending for a year .
For inventions like software and electronics that will be superseded within the year anyway a provisional patent may be all that you ever even need.The bad thing about them is that you , a layman when it comes to patents , have to file your claims .
The claims are by far the most important part of a patent .
They define what your product can do , the rest of the patent is just there to describe the invention in barely enough detail to prove that you can actually do what you claim .
If you mess up with your claims the patent is worthless .
Maybe even worse than worthless because if you disclose claims that do n't actually protect your invention the patent will basically be a tutorial on how to do whatever it is you did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are goods and bads about provisional patents.On the one hand they're cheap, you're protected, and you don't have to disclose your claims yet so you don't have to worry about your invention being made public on the international market.
You just get the privilege of claiming patent pending for a year.
For inventions like software and electronics that will be superseded within the year anyway a provisional patent may be all that you ever even need.The bad thing about them is that you, a layman when it comes to patents, have to file your claims.
The claims are by far the most important part of a patent.
They define what your product can do, the rest of the patent is just there to describe the invention in barely enough detail to prove that you can actually do what you claim.
If you mess up with your claims the patent is worthless.
Maybe even worse than worthless because if you disclose claims that don't actually protect your invention the patent will basically be a tutorial on how to do whatever it is you did.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756309</id>
	<title>Tell Me</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255617180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Simply tell me what your patentable idea is and I'll take care of everything for you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Simply tell me what your patentable idea is and I 'll take care of everything for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Simply tell me what your patentable idea is and I'll take care of everything for you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29763397</id>
	<title>Re:Small entity?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255605360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can also file a Statutory Invention Registration (SIR) with the PTO. This has the same effect as a patent application in preventing others from patenting a similar idea, but it is much cheaper than a patent application. Go to the USPTO website, search for MPEP and look at chapter 1100. Also, you could file a provisional patent application if you need more time to decide whether patenting the invention is right for you. This creates a record at the patent office which may serve as prior art for others and gives you an extra year to decide if you want to go through with a full patent application.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can also file a Statutory Invention Registration ( SIR ) with the PTO .
This has the same effect as a patent application in preventing others from patenting a similar idea , but it is much cheaper than a patent application .
Go to the USPTO website , search for MPEP and look at chapter 1100 .
Also , you could file a provisional patent application if you need more time to decide whether patenting the invention is right for you .
This creates a record at the patent office which may serve as prior art for others and gives you an extra year to decide if you want to go through with a full patent application .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can also file a Statutory Invention Registration (SIR) with the PTO.
This has the same effect as a patent application in preventing others from patenting a similar idea, but it is much cheaper than a patent application.
Go to the USPTO website, search for MPEP and look at chapter 1100.
Also, you could file a provisional patent application if you need more time to decide whether patenting the invention is right for you.
This creates a record at the patent office which may serve as prior art for others and gives you an extra year to decide if you want to go through with a full patent application.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759941</id>
	<title>A patent may not be the best course of action.</title>
	<author>Fuji Kitakyusho</author>
	<datestamp>1255632660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here's why:

Your patent only protects you in the country in which you register it, meaning that to retain control of your product you may need to file separately in each jurisdiction - Canada, USA, UK, etc.  Also, it is a common misconception that a patent protects you from someone stealing your idea and using it commercially.  This is not the case.  What the patent does, is afford you legal standing so that when you happen to discover someone who has stolen your idea and used it commercially, you can subsequently sue them for compensation.  Not only does this necessitate being proactive in researching possible violations on a continual basis, but should you discover an infringement, the subsequent process in the courts is generally much more expensive than the cost of the patent, and these costs must be considered in any cost/benefit analysis of a patent application.  Having a patent without the resources or the means to enforce it is as good as not having the patent at all.  Finally, your patent remains valid for a definite time period, after which time the intellectual property of the patent falls into the public domain.  The idea here is to give an inventor a reasonable opportunity to recover development costs and make some money on a commercial implementation of the patent material, but to eventually let the intellectual property into the public domain in order to further the sum body of knowledge and technological development.  By contrast, if the details of your invention can be obscured in a manner that prevents reverse-engineering, retaining your invention in the form of a trade-secret is often a better choice, as the secret lasts indefinitely - providing you with the opportunity to profit from the invention for as long as you can successfully keep the details out of the public domain.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's why : Your patent only protects you in the country in which you register it , meaning that to retain control of your product you may need to file separately in each jurisdiction - Canada , USA , UK , etc .
Also , it is a common misconception that a patent protects you from someone stealing your idea and using it commercially .
This is not the case .
What the patent does , is afford you legal standing so that when you happen to discover someone who has stolen your idea and used it commercially , you can subsequently sue them for compensation .
Not only does this necessitate being proactive in researching possible violations on a continual basis , but should you discover an infringement , the subsequent process in the courts is generally much more expensive than the cost of the patent , and these costs must be considered in any cost/benefit analysis of a patent application .
Having a patent without the resources or the means to enforce it is as good as not having the patent at all .
Finally , your patent remains valid for a definite time period , after which time the intellectual property of the patent falls into the public domain .
The idea here is to give an inventor a reasonable opportunity to recover development costs and make some money on a commercial implementation of the patent material , but to eventually let the intellectual property into the public domain in order to further the sum body of knowledge and technological development .
By contrast , if the details of your invention can be obscured in a manner that prevents reverse-engineering , retaining your invention in the form of a trade-secret is often a better choice , as the secret lasts indefinitely - providing you with the opportunity to profit from the invention for as long as you can successfully keep the details out of the public domain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's why:

Your patent only protects you in the country in which you register it, meaning that to retain control of your product you may need to file separately in each jurisdiction - Canada, USA, UK, etc.
Also, it is a common misconception that a patent protects you from someone stealing your idea and using it commercially.
This is not the case.
What the patent does, is afford you legal standing so that when you happen to discover someone who has stolen your idea and used it commercially, you can subsequently sue them for compensation.
Not only does this necessitate being proactive in researching possible violations on a continual basis, but should you discover an infringement, the subsequent process in the courts is generally much more expensive than the cost of the patent, and these costs must be considered in any cost/benefit analysis of a patent application.
Having a patent without the resources or the means to enforce it is as good as not having the patent at all.
Finally, your patent remains valid for a definite time period, after which time the intellectual property of the patent falls into the public domain.
The idea here is to give an inventor a reasonable opportunity to recover development costs and make some money on a commercial implementation of the patent material, but to eventually let the intellectual property into the public domain in order to further the sum body of knowledge and technological development.
By contrast, if the details of your invention can be obscured in a manner that prevents reverse-engineering, retaining your invention in the form of a trade-secret is often a better choice, as the secret lasts indefinitely - providing you with the opportunity to profit from the invention for as long as you can successfully keep the details out of the public domain.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29761271</id>
	<title>Publish</title>
	<author>pubwvj</author>
	<datestamp>1255639020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The patent system is a travesty.
Ideas are a dime a dozen.
Coming up with an idea is 0.1\% of the work.
Working out the idea is about 1\% to 10\% of the work.
It is bringing the idea to the market and selling it that takes the final hard push.
I have brought many of my inventions to market and that is where I made the money.
I did not patent a single one - Waste of money and time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The patent system is a travesty .
Ideas are a dime a dozen .
Coming up with an idea is 0.1 \ % of the work .
Working out the idea is about 1 \ % to 10 \ % of the work .
It is bringing the idea to the market and selling it that takes the final hard push .
I have brought many of my inventions to market and that is where I made the money .
I did not patent a single one - Waste of money and time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The patent system is a travesty.
Ideas are a dime a dozen.
Coming up with an idea is 0.1\% of the work.
Working out the idea is about 1\% to 10\% of the work.
It is bringing the idea to the market and selling it that takes the final hard push.
I have brought many of my inventions to market and that is where I made the money.
I did not patent a single one - Waste of money and time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756783</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>tehniobium</author>
	<datestamp>1255619460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just because it is rewarding by itself to invent something that really moves the world forward, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to make the most of the situation.<br><br>Consider that X $ will be made from your idea, whatever you do. Would you rather A: Give those money to a rich corp. or B: Have those money for yourself or even C: Give the money to those who actually need it.<br><br>We can all agree that the dumb option is A.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...and I very much don't think there's anything wrong with option B.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just because it is rewarding by itself to invent something that really moves the world forward , does n't mean you should n't try to make the most of the situation.Consider that X $ will be made from your idea , whatever you do .
Would you rather A : Give those money to a rich corp. or B : Have those money for yourself or even C : Give the money to those who actually need it.We can all agree that the dumb option is A .
...and I very much do n't think there 's anything wrong with option B .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just because it is rewarding by itself to invent something that really moves the world forward, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to make the most of the situation.Consider that X $ will be made from your idea, whatever you do.
Would you rather A: Give those money to a rich corp. or B: Have those money for yourself or even C: Give the money to those who actually need it.We can all agree that the dumb option is A.
...and I very much don't think there's anything wrong with option B.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756907</id>
	<title>You gotta risk big to win big</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255619880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> If my ideas are indeed valuable, what is the best way to gain anything from them without investing too much financially?</p></div> </blockquote><p>What you're asking is impossible.  If you really want to gain from your idea, then you're gonna have to take a risk.  That's just life.  And the willingness to take risk is what separates the plebs from the big winners.</p><p>And, for the record, I'm a proud pleb... I just happen to realize it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If my ideas are indeed valuable , what is the best way to gain anything from them without investing too much financially ?
What you 're asking is impossible .
If you really want to gain from your idea , then you 're gon na have to take a risk .
That 's just life .
And the willingness to take risk is what separates the plebs from the big winners.And , for the record , I 'm a proud pleb... I just happen to realize it .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext> If my ideas are indeed valuable, what is the best way to gain anything from them without investing too much financially?
What you're asking is impossible.
If you really want to gain from your idea, then you're gonna have to take a risk.
That's just life.
And the willingness to take risk is what separates the plebs from the big winners.And, for the record, I'm a proud pleb... I just happen to realize it.
:)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29758737</id>
	<title>Get over it.  Ideas are NOT that valuable</title>
	<author>HEbGb</author>
	<datestamp>1255627440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ideas on their own are a dime a dozen, and a lot of people get all crazy when thinking that their ideas are worth something, and need patenting, protecting, secrecy, etc.</p><p>Ideas are easy and incredibly overrated.  Bringing the idea to something that can be sold, and then actually selling it, is the hard part.</p><p>So unless you have a real interest in pursuing this as a business, don't waste your money.  If you have some interest, but aren't sure, then spend the $100 or so on a provisional patent.  That buys you a year of time to see if there's a viable market.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ideas on their own are a dime a dozen , and a lot of people get all crazy when thinking that their ideas are worth something , and need patenting , protecting , secrecy , etc.Ideas are easy and incredibly overrated .
Bringing the idea to something that can be sold , and then actually selling it , is the hard part.So unless you have a real interest in pursuing this as a business , do n't waste your money .
If you have some interest , but are n't sure , then spend the $ 100 or so on a provisional patent .
That buys you a year of time to see if there 's a viable market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ideas on their own are a dime a dozen, and a lot of people get all crazy when thinking that their ideas are worth something, and need patenting, protecting, secrecy, etc.Ideas are easy and incredibly overrated.
Bringing the idea to something that can be sold, and then actually selling it, is the hard part.So unless you have a real interest in pursuing this as a business, don't waste your money.
If you have some interest, but aren't sure, then spend the $100 or so on a provisional patent.
That buys you a year of time to see if there's a viable market.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756485</id>
	<title>Let the USPTO do the leg work?</title>
	<author>LoadWB</author>
	<datestamp>1255617900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have given this thought in the past and figured that since the USPTO does a lot of legwork to check out patents before granting them, why not let them do the research and then redo the patent filing based upon the rejection?  Of course, the speed at which these are processed and public availability of filings would most likely make this simplistic scenario unrealistic.  It was a thought, none-the-less.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have given this thought in the past and figured that since the USPTO does a lot of legwork to check out patents before granting them , why not let them do the research and then redo the patent filing based upon the rejection ?
Of course , the speed at which these are processed and public availability of filings would most likely make this simplistic scenario unrealistic .
It was a thought , none-the-less .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have given this thought in the past and figured that since the USPTO does a lot of legwork to check out patents before granting them, why not let them do the research and then redo the patent filing based upon the rejection?
Of course, the speed at which these are processed and public availability of filings would most likely make this simplistic scenario unrealistic.
It was a thought, none-the-less.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757953</id>
	<title>I suggest:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255624020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like http://www.edisonnation.com/  For about $20 you can submit an idea to product searches that various companies sponsor.  If your idea is accepted you will receive a percentage of royalties.</p><p>Likewise, for about $200 http://www.lambertinvent.com/index.php?content=home will evaluate your idea and develop it if accepted.  I don&rsquo;t think the fee covers their expense as they are genuinely looking for ideas to commercialize.</p><p>Other companies will develop a prototype of anything you bring them for tens of thousands of dollars with no consideration of the ideas merit. http://www.davison.com/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like http : //www.edisonnation.com/ For about $ 20 you can submit an idea to product searches that various companies sponsor .
If your idea is accepted you will receive a percentage of royalties.Likewise , for about $ 200 http : //www.lambertinvent.com/index.php ? content = home will evaluate your idea and develop it if accepted .
I don    t think the fee covers their expense as they are genuinely looking for ideas to commercialize.Other companies will develop a prototype of anything you bring them for tens of thousands of dollars with no consideration of the ideas merit .
http : //www.davison.com/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like http://www.edisonnation.com/  For about $20 you can submit an idea to product searches that various companies sponsor.
If your idea is accepted you will receive a percentage of royalties.Likewise, for about $200 http://www.lambertinvent.com/index.php?content=home will evaluate your idea and develop it if accepted.
I don’t think the fee covers their expense as they are genuinely looking for ideas to commercialize.Other companies will develop a prototype of anything you bring them for tens of thousands of dollars with no consideration of the ideas merit.
http://www.davison.com/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756827</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>AlecC</author>
	<datestamp>1255619640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Careful - only in the US do you have a year after publication. In the UK, and i think in the rest of Europe, you must patent before publication,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Careful - only in the US do you have a year after publication .
In the UK , and i think in the rest of Europe , you must patent before publication,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Careful - only in the US do you have a year after publication.
In the UK, and i think in the rest of Europe, you must patent before publication,</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759137</id>
	<title>is it really that expensive ??</title>
	<author>Brigadier</author>
	<datestamp>1255629180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In early days you were required to have a patent lawyer in order to perform a thorough search of the archives. They gave you the template and you wrote in the substance.  You no longer need this <a href="http://www.google.com/patents/" title="google.com">http://www.google.com/patents/</a> [google.com] has all the patents listed in a very searchable format. you can do the search your self find all references and using legal zoom file the patent yourself. You don't even have to mail it there are patent offices all over the place. In my experience (or should I say research) you have a better review process as an individual with a will written an researched patent than a lawyer.  I'm also desperately trying to find the answer to this question, one that has prevented me for years from acting on what I believe is a useful idea. One helpful fact for me is the proposed problem that my patents attempts to address has been patented several times. So I simply (hopefully) is site the reference use there example to propose my idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In early days you were required to have a patent lawyer in order to perform a thorough search of the archives .
They gave you the template and you wrote in the substance .
You no longer need this http : //www.google.com/patents/ [ google.com ] has all the patents listed in a very searchable format .
you can do the search your self find all references and using legal zoom file the patent yourself .
You do n't even have to mail it there are patent offices all over the place .
In my experience ( or should I say research ) you have a better review process as an individual with a will written an researched patent than a lawyer .
I 'm also desperately trying to find the answer to this question , one that has prevented me for years from acting on what I believe is a useful idea .
One helpful fact for me is the proposed problem that my patents attempts to address has been patented several times .
So I simply ( hopefully ) is site the reference use there example to propose my idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In early days you were required to have a patent lawyer in order to perform a thorough search of the archives.
They gave you the template and you wrote in the substance.
You no longer need this http://www.google.com/patents/ [google.com] has all the patents listed in a very searchable format.
you can do the search your self find all references and using legal zoom file the patent yourself.
You don't even have to mail it there are patent offices all over the place.
In my experience (or should I say research) you have a better review process as an individual with a will written an researched patent than a lawyer.
I'm also desperately trying to find the answer to this question, one that has prevented me for years from acting on what I believe is a useful idea.
One helpful fact for me is the proposed problem that my patents attempts to address has been patented several times.
So I simply (hopefully) is site the reference use there example to propose my idea.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756373</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29768539</id>
	<title>Re:Patent if it's practical, publish if it's risky</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255707600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In the US,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you've still got a year after publication to make a provisional filing, but you also get a year after the provisional filing before the full application.</p></div><p>This is wrong on both counts.  If you choose to file a provisional patent to establish the priority date, you should file <i>before</i> publication or other enabling disclosure.  Whether you file a provisional or not, you have until one year after <i>public disclosure</i> to file the utility patent application.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the US , ... you 've still got a year after publication to make a provisional filing , but you also get a year after the provisional filing before the full application.This is wrong on both counts .
If you choose to file a provisional patent to establish the priority date , you should file before publication or other enabling disclosure .
Whether you file a provisional or not , you have until one year after public disclosure to file the utility patent application .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the US, ... you've still got a year after publication to make a provisional filing, but you also get a year after the provisional filing before the full application.This is wrong on both counts.
If you choose to file a provisional patent to establish the priority date, you should file before publication or other enabling disclosure.
Whether you file a provisional or not, you have until one year after public disclosure to file the utility patent application.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756975</id>
	<title>Re:You can do both</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255620120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think the point would be that even the PTO checks their data-base of provisional patents before handing out a patent. The idea is to tell them, 'I am doing this' so they don't let others patent the idea.</p><p>IANAL, nor do I play one on TV.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the point would be that even the PTO checks their data-base of provisional patents before handing out a patent .
The idea is to tell them , 'I am doing this ' so they do n't let others patent the idea.IANAL , nor do I play one on TV .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the point would be that even the PTO checks their data-base of provisional patents before handing out a patent.
The idea is to tell them, 'I am doing this' so they don't let others patent the idea.IANAL, nor do I play one on TV.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756675</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756519</id>
	<title>Patents don't make money</title>
	<author>Geoffrey.landis</author>
	<datestamp>1255618140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The sad fact is that nine out of ten patents don't make any money.  I don't mean, "don't make enough money to pay back the expenses of patenting"-- I mean, don't make <i>any</i> money.
<p>Don't expect that you'll make money if you patent an idea-- the patent is only the <i>first</i> step in the process of commercializing the invention, and unless <i>you</i> are active and get your invention out in the world, it won't happen-- it's not true that there are people sitting there and reading every patent as it comes out, saying "oh, there's one I can invest in!  I'll pay that guy buckets of money!"  <i>You</i> have to do the work (and only ten percent of that work is technical.  The majority is networking, social, legal, business, economic, and sales related.)
</p><p>So: are you ready to do the entrepreneur thing?  Long days of working on selling your invention to people with investment money, concatenated with long nights of working to make your invention work better, cheaper, and more reliably?
</p><p>On the other hand, patenting needn't be terribly expensive if you do most of the grunt work yourself.  The patent office has low fees for "small entities," which includes individual inventors.
</p><p>If you publish, you won't profit directly (although if it's a nobel-prize winning invention, you will), but you will (in principle) prevent somebody else from patenting it.  In practice, actually, the patent office is not very good at finding prior art in the literature (to be fair, they have roughly one day per invention to do both the literature search and also the write-up), so what you'll actually accomplish by publishing is to give other parties a piece of evidence that they can use to challenge the validity of the patent.  (And, of course, the other parties who have the same idea will probably not have <i>exactly</i> the same idea, and the details of their patent will probably be slightly different, so not the entire patent will be invalidated.)
</p><p>Disclaimer: IANAL (but, on the other hand, you can google <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=\%22patent+claim+drafting\%22+Landis" title="google.com">Patent Claim Drafting...</a> [google.com]<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The sad fact is that nine out of ten patents do n't make any money .
I do n't mean , " do n't make enough money to pay back the expenses of patenting " -- I mean , do n't make any money .
Do n't expect that you 'll make money if you patent an idea-- the patent is only the first step in the process of commercializing the invention , and unless you are active and get your invention out in the world , it wo n't happen-- it 's not true that there are people sitting there and reading every patent as it comes out , saying " oh , there 's one I can invest in !
I 'll pay that guy buckets of money !
" You have to do the work ( and only ten percent of that work is technical .
The majority is networking , social , legal , business , economic , and sales related .
) So : are you ready to do the entrepreneur thing ?
Long days of working on selling your invention to people with investment money , concatenated with long nights of working to make your invention work better , cheaper , and more reliably ?
On the other hand , patenting need n't be terribly expensive if you do most of the grunt work yourself .
The patent office has low fees for " small entities , " which includes individual inventors .
If you publish , you wo n't profit directly ( although if it 's a nobel-prize winning invention , you will ) , but you will ( in principle ) prevent somebody else from patenting it .
In practice , actually , the patent office is not very good at finding prior art in the literature ( to be fair , they have roughly one day per invention to do both the literature search and also the write-up ) , so what you 'll actually accomplish by publishing is to give other parties a piece of evidence that they can use to challenge the validity of the patent .
( And , of course , the other parties who have the same idea will probably not have exactly the same idea , and the details of their patent will probably be slightly different , so not the entire patent will be invalidated .
) Disclaimer : IANAL ( but , on the other hand , you can google Patent Claim Drafting... [ google.com ] : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sad fact is that nine out of ten patents don't make any money.
I don't mean, "don't make enough money to pay back the expenses of patenting"-- I mean, don't make any money.
Don't expect that you'll make money if you patent an idea-- the patent is only the first step in the process of commercializing the invention, and unless you are active and get your invention out in the world, it won't happen-- it's not true that there are people sitting there and reading every patent as it comes out, saying "oh, there's one I can invest in!
I'll pay that guy buckets of money!
"  You have to do the work (and only ten percent of that work is technical.
The majority is networking, social, legal, business, economic, and sales related.
)
So: are you ready to do the entrepreneur thing?
Long days of working on selling your invention to people with investment money, concatenated with long nights of working to make your invention work better, cheaper, and more reliably?
On the other hand, patenting needn't be terribly expensive if you do most of the grunt work yourself.
The patent office has low fees for "small entities," which includes individual inventors.
If you publish, you won't profit directly (although if it's a nobel-prize winning invention, you will), but you will (in principle) prevent somebody else from patenting it.
In practice, actually, the patent office is not very good at finding prior art in the literature (to be fair, they have roughly one day per invention to do both the literature search and also the write-up), so what you'll actually accomplish by publishing is to give other parties a piece of evidence that they can use to challenge the validity of the patent.
(And, of course, the other parties who have the same idea will probably not have exactly the same idea, and the details of their patent will probably be slightly different, so not the entire patent will be invalidated.
)
Disclaimer: IANAL (but, on the other hand, you can google Patent Claim Drafting... [google.com] :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29762477</id>
	<title>Isn't there a guy with a company that helps the...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255601220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>little guy with patents and such?  I forget his name.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>little guy with patents and such ?
I forget his name .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>little guy with patents and such?
I forget his name.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757581</id>
	<title>Check your assumptions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255622460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're assuming you have a patentable idea. If you actually have a patentable idea, then by all means patent it and get rich.</p><p>However I have to warn you: Most ideas are completely worthless. The odds say that you have an unrealistic estimation of the value of your "invention."  My guess is that a thousand other people had the exact same idea yesterday at lunch and then dismissed it as something not worth pursuing. Then another thousand had the idea at dinner, etc.</p><p>Suggestion: Instead of wasting your time asking Slashdot, go make whatever it is you think you invented. You'll probably discover at least a dozen "issues" that need to be solved before it can be brought to market. Spend some time working on those issues. You'll probably find more issues as you go. Lather, rinse, repeat. Then ask us again a year or two from now when you finally have a working implementation of whatever it is you think you just invented.</p><p>p.s. I'd bet dollars to donuts that at least two other people reading this "Ask Slashdot" already have a working implementation of your idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're assuming you have a patentable idea .
If you actually have a patentable idea , then by all means patent it and get rich.However I have to warn you : Most ideas are completely worthless .
The odds say that you have an unrealistic estimation of the value of your " invention .
" My guess is that a thousand other people had the exact same idea yesterday at lunch and then dismissed it as something not worth pursuing .
Then another thousand had the idea at dinner , etc.Suggestion : Instead of wasting your time asking Slashdot , go make whatever it is you think you invented .
You 'll probably discover at least a dozen " issues " that need to be solved before it can be brought to market .
Spend some time working on those issues .
You 'll probably find more issues as you go .
Lather , rinse , repeat .
Then ask us again a year or two from now when you finally have a working implementation of whatever it is you think you just invented.p.s .
I 'd bet dollars to donuts that at least two other people reading this " Ask Slashdot " already have a working implementation of your idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're assuming you have a patentable idea.
If you actually have a patentable idea, then by all means patent it and get rich.However I have to warn you: Most ideas are completely worthless.
The odds say that you have an unrealistic estimation of the value of your "invention.
"  My guess is that a thousand other people had the exact same idea yesterday at lunch and then dismissed it as something not worth pursuing.
Then another thousand had the idea at dinner, etc.Suggestion: Instead of wasting your time asking Slashdot, go make whatever it is you think you invented.
You'll probably discover at least a dozen "issues" that need to be solved before it can be brought to market.
Spend some time working on those issues.
You'll probably find more issues as you go.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Then ask us again a year or two from now when you finally have a working implementation of whatever it is you think you just invented.p.s.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that at least two other people reading this "Ask Slashdot" already have a working implementation of your idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29767885</id>
	<title>come on</title>
	<author>Veamon</author>
	<datestamp>1255703760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>"If my ideas are indeed valuable, what is the best way to gain anything from them without investing too much financially? "

If they're valuable, you wont care what the upfront is, because you're hoping to make a return.  Quit being such a loser.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" If my ideas are indeed valuable , what is the best way to gain anything from them without investing too much financially ?
" If they 're valuable , you wont care what the upfront is , because you 're hoping to make a return .
Quit being such a loser .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"If my ideas are indeed valuable, what is the best way to gain anything from them without investing too much financially?
"

If they're valuable, you wont care what the upfront is, because you're hoping to make a return.
Quit being such a loser.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29766127</id>
	<title>Of the people, by the people, for the corporation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255634220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Havent U read ur constiitution 2.0</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Havent U read ur constiitution 2.0</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Havent U read ur constiitution 2.0</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757791</id>
	<title>10\% not more</title>
	<author>ElitistWhiner</author>
	<datestamp>1255623360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Less than 10\% of the profit-stream is attributable in my experience to patent technologies.  True value is that other 90\% brought to the market by the corporation in design, development, marketing and support.</p><p>Waaay toooo much emphasis is placed upon technology in the value chain of venture building capital.  Toooooo little protection is afforded by USPTO to protect by patent alone the great ideas and inventions.</p><p>Sell the idea/tech to the VC community who are best equipped to monetarize  a marketplace solution to the problem you've solved.  A 10\% or less share after all is said and done is huge for the inventor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Less than 10 \ % of the profit-stream is attributable in my experience to patent technologies .
True value is that other 90 \ % brought to the market by the corporation in design , development , marketing and support.Waaay toooo much emphasis is placed upon technology in the value chain of venture building capital .
Toooooo little protection is afforded by USPTO to protect by patent alone the great ideas and inventions.Sell the idea/tech to the VC community who are best equipped to monetarize a marketplace solution to the problem you 've solved .
A 10 \ % or less share after all is said and done is huge for the inventor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Less than 10\% of the profit-stream is attributable in my experience to patent technologies.
True value is that other 90\% brought to the market by the corporation in design, development, marketing and support.Waaay toooo much emphasis is placed upon technology in the value chain of venture building capital.
Toooooo little protection is afforded by USPTO to protect by patent alone the great ideas and inventions.Sell the idea/tech to the VC community who are best equipped to monetarize  a marketplace solution to the problem you've solved.
A 10\% or less share after all is said and done is huge for the inventor.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756759</id>
	<title>Self Patent</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255619280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was much younger, I learned a method of "Self Patenting" which I am not sure if it would help you out any or not, but I will explain just in case anyone else has this idea.  Basically what you can do is make TWO copies of all your notes and schematics for the invention or work.  Mail BOTH (use signature guarantee or something to that effect) to an attorney.  Contact the attorney ahead of time and inform them of what you are doing.  The attorney will then file the UNOPENED packages for you.  If an issue arises where you feel your idea was stolen, contact the attorney and in your presence open ONE of the envelopes to confirm with the attorney the infringement.  The second package is to remain sealed until such a time as you are in court.  The postage information and the sealed package allow you to prove a date from when your idea was created.</p><p>This may sound odd, but I have had friends that have written papers, songs and poetry that have been published without consent, and through this method of "self patenting" they were able to receive credit and financial benefits from their works.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was much younger , I learned a method of " Self Patenting " which I am not sure if it would help you out any or not , but I will explain just in case anyone else has this idea .
Basically what you can do is make TWO copies of all your notes and schematics for the invention or work .
Mail BOTH ( use signature guarantee or something to that effect ) to an attorney .
Contact the attorney ahead of time and inform them of what you are doing .
The attorney will then file the UNOPENED packages for you .
If an issue arises where you feel your idea was stolen , contact the attorney and in your presence open ONE of the envelopes to confirm with the attorney the infringement .
The second package is to remain sealed until such a time as you are in court .
The postage information and the sealed package allow you to prove a date from when your idea was created.This may sound odd , but I have had friends that have written papers , songs and poetry that have been published without consent , and through this method of " self patenting " they were able to receive credit and financial benefits from their works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was much younger, I learned a method of "Self Patenting" which I am not sure if it would help you out any or not, but I will explain just in case anyone else has this idea.
Basically what you can do is make TWO copies of all your notes and schematics for the invention or work.
Mail BOTH (use signature guarantee or something to that effect) to an attorney.
Contact the attorney ahead of time and inform them of what you are doing.
The attorney will then file the UNOPENED packages for you.
If an issue arises where you feel your idea was stolen, contact the attorney and in your presence open ONE of the envelopes to confirm with the attorney the infringement.
The second package is to remain sealed until such a time as you are in court.
The postage information and the sealed package allow you to prove a date from when your idea was created.This may sound odd, but I have had friends that have written papers, songs and poetry that have been published without consent, and through this method of "self patenting" they were able to receive credit and financial benefits from their works.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757723</id>
	<title>Re:Good Ideas are cheap</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1255623120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If only there was a system tio protect ideas while looking for someone that can implement them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If only there was a system tio protect ideas while looking for someone that can implement them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If only there was a system tio protect ideas while looking for someone that can implement them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756755</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756529</id>
	<title>Angel investor</title>
	<author>ForexCoder</author>
	<datestamp>1255618140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Another option is an angel investor.  You don't need a patent to talk to investors, they just want to know if it's a viable business.<br> <br>
Most areas have local groups that hook up inventors with angel investors.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Another option is an angel investor .
You do n't need a patent to talk to investors , they just want to know if it 's a viable business .
Most areas have local groups that hook up inventors with angel investors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another option is an angel investor.
You don't need a patent to talk to investors, they just want to know if it's a viable business.
Most areas have local groups that hook up inventors with angel investors.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757171</id>
	<title>Only gone through the patent thicket once</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255620900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It took about 3 years to finally receive the patent. It took several lawyers crafting the documents we gave them into the right form for submission, lawyers who were outside the company legal specialists in this sort of patent but who had to be taught about the technology and whose every filing had to be reviewed to be sure that it was accurate. They took care of the lawyer language, we made sure they were honest and accurate. We were first rejected on about 6 grounds, it took a well crafted technical argument on each point to rebut the patent examiner's initial concerns and to show him why our invention differed from each invention he was proposing as similar. I would have thought our lawyers would have done that differentiation in our initial filing but it wasn't done. The winning arguments were crafted not by someone with a lawyers degree nor even by the ones who actually invented the technology but by someone with skills that bridged the two.</p><p>So 3 years and probably $100k later we had the patent.</p><p>I suppose in theory an individual can do it, but, in practice, my experience was much more complex and $ consuming?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It took about 3 years to finally receive the patent .
It took several lawyers crafting the documents we gave them into the right form for submission , lawyers who were outside the company legal specialists in this sort of patent but who had to be taught about the technology and whose every filing had to be reviewed to be sure that it was accurate .
They took care of the lawyer language , we made sure they were honest and accurate .
We were first rejected on about 6 grounds , it took a well crafted technical argument on each point to rebut the patent examiner 's initial concerns and to show him why our invention differed from each invention he was proposing as similar .
I would have thought our lawyers would have done that differentiation in our initial filing but it was n't done .
The winning arguments were crafted not by someone with a lawyers degree nor even by the ones who actually invented the technology but by someone with skills that bridged the two.So 3 years and probably $ 100k later we had the patent.I suppose in theory an individual can do it , but , in practice , my experience was much more complex and $ consuming ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It took about 3 years to finally receive the patent.
It took several lawyers crafting the documents we gave them into the right form for submission, lawyers who were outside the company legal specialists in this sort of patent but who had to be taught about the technology and whose every filing had to be reviewed to be sure that it was accurate.
They took care of the lawyer language, we made sure they were honest and accurate.
We were first rejected on about 6 grounds, it took a well crafted technical argument on each point to rebut the patent examiner's initial concerns and to show him why our invention differed from each invention he was proposing as similar.
I would have thought our lawyers would have done that differentiation in our initial filing but it wasn't done.
The winning arguments were crafted not by someone with a lawyers degree nor even by the ones who actually invented the technology but by someone with skills that bridged the two.So 3 years and probably $100k later we had the patent.I suppose in theory an individual can do it, but, in practice, my experience was much more complex and $ consuming?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756357</id>
	<title>The choice</title>
	<author>DoofusOfDeath</author>
	<datestamp>1255617360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your choice is whether to be selfish or decent.  Are you going to stand on the shoulders of giants, but sue anyone who would stand on yours?</p><p>How you proceed says a bit about who you are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your choice is whether to be selfish or decent .
Are you going to stand on the shoulders of giants , but sue anyone who would stand on yours ? How you proceed says a bit about who you are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your choice is whether to be selfish or decent.
Are you going to stand on the shoulders of giants, but sue anyone who would stand on yours?How you proceed says a bit about who you are.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759395</id>
	<title>Work for IBM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255630320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get a job with IBM.  They'll patent anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get a job with IBM .
They 'll patent anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get a job with IBM.
They'll patent anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757521</id>
	<title>What we often do.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255622220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if we can not justify a the price  of patent.</p><p>Publish it in some (news)paper that no one reads.<br>Then you can block a later patent by showing prior art.</p><p>Or is there a place you can register the a paper with the idea in a public office in the legal system.</p><p>(I do not live in USA.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if we can not justify a the price of patent.Publish it in some ( news ) paper that no one reads.Then you can block a later patent by showing prior art.Or is there a place you can register the a paper with the idea in a public office in the legal system .
( I do not live in USA .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if we can not justify a the price  of patent.Publish it in some (news)paper that no one reads.Then you can block a later patent by showing prior art.Or is there a place you can register the a paper with the idea in a public office in the legal system.
(I do not live in USA.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757891</id>
	<title>The answer to question needs an IP lawyer...</title>
	<author>beanagee1</author>
	<datestamp>1255623780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am not the IP lawyer, I have jut dealt with many of them.

Whether you patent or keep it a trade secret depends on the idea and the competitive landscape. Who is most likely to violate your patent?  If this is a consumer good and the markets are all over the world, will the normal offenders of IP be all over this idea?  Some countries have no respect for your patents.  Then, you are merely enabling competition.  Do your potential customers value patents?  If you are going to be selling to governments or psuedo government in developed countries, you probably want to patent it.  If you are selling to consumers then it is questionable whether you should educate your copiers.


If it is a broad patent and it is enabling then you probably want to patent it.   Through a patent application, you are teaching everyone essentially how to copy you.  If they don't respect your patent then you have just enabled a nasty competitor.  If the patent has narrow claims then you may think about whether you should or should not patent.  If you already have a broad patent coverage then you discover other inventions related to the previous patents then you may want to keep it a secret to not everyone know what the solutions are to various problems they will encounter trying to copy your idea.  Try sending people down the wrong alleys trying to chase you..

If you have an improvement to prior art, previous disclosures or patents, and the idea is being commercialize or is commercial, patent it.  You can more easily liscence the new idea.

Lastly, if you going to raise money from investors to commercialize the product, then you will be better off with a patent.  If you going to sell your company to a larger comany, what are they going to be buying?  You can sell cash flow and customers, but if you intend to sell during commercialization phase, you need an IP portfolio.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am not the IP lawyer , I have jut dealt with many of them .
Whether you patent or keep it a trade secret depends on the idea and the competitive landscape .
Who is most likely to violate your patent ?
If this is a consumer good and the markets are all over the world , will the normal offenders of IP be all over this idea ?
Some countries have no respect for your patents .
Then , you are merely enabling competition .
Do your potential customers value patents ?
If you are going to be selling to governments or psuedo government in developed countries , you probably want to patent it .
If you are selling to consumers then it is questionable whether you should educate your copiers .
If it is a broad patent and it is enabling then you probably want to patent it .
Through a patent application , you are teaching everyone essentially how to copy you .
If they do n't respect your patent then you have just enabled a nasty competitor .
If the patent has narrow claims then you may think about whether you should or should not patent .
If you already have a broad patent coverage then you discover other inventions related to the previous patents then you may want to keep it a secret to not everyone know what the solutions are to various problems they will encounter trying to copy your idea .
Try sending people down the wrong alleys trying to chase you. . If you have an improvement to prior art , previous disclosures or patents , and the idea is being commercialize or is commercial , patent it .
You can more easily liscence the new idea .
Lastly , if you going to raise money from investors to commercialize the product , then you will be better off with a patent .
If you going to sell your company to a larger comany , what are they going to be buying ?
You can sell cash flow and customers , but if you intend to sell during commercialization phase , you need an IP portfolio .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am not the IP lawyer, I have jut dealt with many of them.
Whether you patent or keep it a trade secret depends on the idea and the competitive landscape.
Who is most likely to violate your patent?
If this is a consumer good and the markets are all over the world, will the normal offenders of IP be all over this idea?
Some countries have no respect for your patents.
Then, you are merely enabling competition.
Do your potential customers value patents?
If you are going to be selling to governments or psuedo government in developed countries, you probably want to patent it.
If you are selling to consumers then it is questionable whether you should educate your copiers.
If it is a broad patent and it is enabling then you probably want to patent it.
Through a patent application, you are teaching everyone essentially how to copy you.
If they don't respect your patent then you have just enabled a nasty competitor.
If the patent has narrow claims then you may think about whether you should or should not patent.
If you already have a broad patent coverage then you discover other inventions related to the previous patents then you may want to keep it a secret to not everyone know what the solutions are to various problems they will encounter trying to copy your idea.
Try sending people down the wrong alleys trying to chase you..

If you have an improvement to prior art, previous disclosures or patents, and the idea is being commercialize or is commercial, patent it.
You can more easily liscence the new idea.
Lastly, if you going to raise money from investors to commercialize the product, then you will be better off with a patent.
If you going to sell your company to a larger comany, what are they going to be buying?
You can sell cash flow and customers, but if you intend to sell during commercialization phase, you need an IP portfolio.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29762655</id>
	<title>Pressman</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255601820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You want David Pressman's famous book "Patent it Yourself."  You can get almost-up-to-date editions at any public library or buy the latest cheap at any major book seller.  Pressman thoroughly answers your question.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You want David Pressman 's famous book " Patent it Yourself .
" You can get almost-up-to-date editions at any public library or buy the latest cheap at any major book seller .
Pressman thoroughly answers your question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You want David Pressman's famous book "Patent it Yourself.
"  You can get almost-up-to-date editions at any public library or buy the latest cheap at any major book seller.
Pressman thoroughly answers your question.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759615</id>
	<title>StampYourDocuments.com can prove you invented 1st.</title>
	<author>mrmike37</author>
	<datestamp>1255631340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is a service that will protect your idea called <a href="http://www.stampyourdocuments.com/" title="stampyourdocuments.com" rel="nofollow">StampYourDocuments.com</a> [stampyourdocuments.com].  It's one thing to invent something first, it's another thing to prove you invented it first.  Bear in mind that stamping your idea on StampYourDocuments.com is not a panacea.  Even if you invent first, you may lose your rights if you aren't diligent in pursuing your invention or publishing it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is a service that will protect your idea called StampYourDocuments.com [ stampyourdocuments.com ] .
It 's one thing to invent something first , it 's another thing to prove you invented it first .
Bear in mind that stamping your idea on StampYourDocuments.com is not a panacea .
Even if you invent first , you may lose your rights if you are n't diligent in pursuing your invention or publishing it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is a service that will protect your idea called StampYourDocuments.com [stampyourdocuments.com].
It's one thing to invent something first, it's another thing to prove you invented it first.
Bear in mind that stamping your idea on StampYourDocuments.com is not a panacea.
Even if you invent first, you may lose your rights if you aren't diligent in pursuing your invention or publishing it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29767937</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>martinmic</author>
	<datestamp>1255704120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I decided to publish my ideas. I really like the idea of the moving monitor platform but since I'll never get to it maybe someone else will.

<a href="http://innovationsforgrabs.blogspot.com/" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://innovationsforgrabs.blogspot.com/</a> [blogspot.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I decided to publish my ideas .
I really like the idea of the moving monitor platform but since I 'll never get to it maybe someone else will .
http : //innovationsforgrabs.blogspot.com/ [ blogspot.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I decided to publish my ideas.
I really like the idea of the moving monitor platform but since I'll never get to it maybe someone else will.
http://innovationsforgrabs.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757619</id>
	<title>Trade Secret is another option</title>
	<author>Carbaholic</author>
	<datestamp>1255622580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you file a patent you have to disclose your invention. This means that others can legally invent similar things as long as it doesn't quite overlap your claims. Also, the patent expires after about 20 years after which your invention is disclosed to the public and is no longer protected.</p><p>A trade secret is another way to protect intellectual property. If you take proper measures to keep your idea secret, like making people sign non-disclosure agreements if you share your idea with them, your invention is legally protected for as long as you keep it secret. No fees, no disclosure, no expiration date.</p><p>This is why patents are good and promote innovation. They create an avenue for inventors to share their ideas AND protect them. If patents were taken away everything would be trade secret. As a result there would be far less sharing of ideas out there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you file a patent you have to disclose your invention .
This means that others can legally invent similar things as long as it does n't quite overlap your claims .
Also , the patent expires after about 20 years after which your invention is disclosed to the public and is no longer protected.A trade secret is another way to protect intellectual property .
If you take proper measures to keep your idea secret , like making people sign non-disclosure agreements if you share your idea with them , your invention is legally protected for as long as you keep it secret .
No fees , no disclosure , no expiration date.This is why patents are good and promote innovation .
They create an avenue for inventors to share their ideas AND protect them .
If patents were taken away everything would be trade secret .
As a result there would be far less sharing of ideas out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you file a patent you have to disclose your invention.
This means that others can legally invent similar things as long as it doesn't quite overlap your claims.
Also, the patent expires after about 20 years after which your invention is disclosed to the public and is no longer protected.A trade secret is another way to protect intellectual property.
If you take proper measures to keep your idea secret, like making people sign non-disclosure agreements if you share your idea with them, your invention is legally protected for as long as you keep it secret.
No fees, no disclosure, no expiration date.This is why patents are good and promote innovation.
They create an avenue for inventors to share their ideas AND protect them.
If patents were taken away everything would be trade secret.
As a result there would be far less sharing of ideas out there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757223</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>markkezner</author>
	<datestamp>1255621020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To be clear, if I was in that situation, I would also try to make as much money as possible from my work, like anyone else. However, I would like to avoid letting my own greed get in the way of advancing my species.</htmltext>
<tokenext>To be clear , if I was in that situation , I would also try to make as much money as possible from my work , like anyone else .
However , I would like to avoid letting my own greed get in the way of advancing my species .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To be clear, if I was in that situation, I would also try to make as much money as possible from my work, like anyone else.
However, I would like to avoid letting my own greed get in the way of advancing my species.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29758373</id>
	<title>Re:Develop it AND get a provisional patent</title>
	<author>hot soldering iron</author>
	<datestamp>1255625820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some of the best advice on this was "Value = Risk Reduction". The closer to a marketable product you are, the more valuable your idea is. If you've done the basic research, prototypes, product design, market research, basic manufacturing and liability research, you have a very valuable piece of property to sell for a nice bit of coin. If all you have is "I had this cool idea while I was smokin' a bowl", then all you can maybe expect is a cup of coffee while telling the story. Like others have said, patent it if there is great value in the product, or publish it if there isn't.  Remember though: the value of a product isn't what you paid for it (effort), it's what others will pay for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of the best advice on this was " Value = Risk Reduction " .
The closer to a marketable product you are , the more valuable your idea is .
If you 've done the basic research , prototypes , product design , market research , basic manufacturing and liability research , you have a very valuable piece of property to sell for a nice bit of coin .
If all you have is " I had this cool idea while I was smokin ' a bowl " , then all you can maybe expect is a cup of coffee while telling the story .
Like others have said , patent it if there is great value in the product , or publish it if there is n't .
Remember though : the value of a product is n't what you paid for it ( effort ) , it 's what others will pay for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of the best advice on this was "Value = Risk Reduction".
The closer to a marketable product you are, the more valuable your idea is.
If you've done the basic research, prototypes, product design, market research, basic manufacturing and liability research, you have a very valuable piece of property to sell for a nice bit of coin.
If all you have is "I had this cool idea while I was smokin' a bowl", then all you can maybe expect is a cup of coffee while telling the story.
Like others have said, patent it if there is great value in the product, or publish it if there isn't.
Remember though: the value of a product isn't what you paid for it (effort), it's what others will pay for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29765841</id>
	<title>Re:Patent if it's practical, publish if it's risky</title>
	<author>physburn</author>
	<datestamp>1255628220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't think it need be that expensive. Certainly in the UK, you can patent without needing
your own lawyer, a lawyer might help, but its not a necessity. Patents are written in a
particular legal language, but you can learn how to write similarly just by reading plenty
of other patents. You'll need to read many patents as you really ought to search for
prior art before taking out a patents. Google and USPTO let you search patents databases
for free, so its not difficult. Finally if you publish and don't patent, no one else should be
able to patent you idea, so no-one could sue you for using you own idea.
<p>
---
</p><p>
<a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/blogs/Inventors\%20and\%20Inventions/feed.html" title="feeddistiller.com">Inventors and Inventions</a> [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ <a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/" title="feeddistiller.com">Feed Distiller</a> [feeddistiller.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think it need be that expensive .
Certainly in the UK , you can patent without needing your own lawyer , a lawyer might help , but its not a necessity .
Patents are written in a particular legal language , but you can learn how to write similarly just by reading plenty of other patents .
You 'll need to read many patents as you really ought to search for prior art before taking out a patents .
Google and USPTO let you search patents databases for free , so its not difficult .
Finally if you publish and do n't patent , no one else should be able to patent you idea , so no-one could sue you for using you own idea .
--- Inventors and Inventions [ feeddistiller.com ] Feed @ Feed Distiller [ feeddistiller.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think it need be that expensive.
Certainly in the UK, you can patent without needing
your own lawyer, a lawyer might help, but its not a necessity.
Patents are written in a
particular legal language, but you can learn how to write similarly just by reading plenty
of other patents.
You'll need to read many patents as you really ought to search for
prior art before taking out a patents.
Google and USPTO let you search patents databases
for free, so its not difficult.
Finally if you publish and don't patent, no one else should be
able to patent you idea, so no-one could sue you for using you own idea.
---

Inventors and Inventions [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ Feed Distiller [feeddistiller.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29765245</id>
	<title>Re:You can do both</title>
	<author>Dachannien</author>
	<datestamp>1255620300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, if you were to publish your paper now, and then within a year file a provisional patent application where the specification was just your paper again, and then within another year you file the nonprovisional application, you would still be in the clear - as long as the inventorship on your application and the authorship on your paper were the same, and as long as <i>everything in your claims is mentioned in your provisional app</i>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , if you were to publish your paper now , and then within a year file a provisional patent application where the specification was just your paper again , and then within another year you file the nonprovisional application , you would still be in the clear - as long as the inventorship on your application and the authorship on your paper were the same , and as long as everything in your claims is mentioned in your provisional app .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, if you were to publish your paper now, and then within a year file a provisional patent application where the specification was just your paper again, and then within another year you file the nonprovisional application, you would still be in the clear - as long as the inventorship on your application and the authorship on your paper were the same, and as long as everything in your claims is mentioned in your provisional app.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756675</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759445</id>
	<title>Re:Publish, don't patent</title>
	<author>istartedi</author>
	<datestamp>1255630560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IANAL, but if you think it might make
serious money I'd like to insert (between
steps 2 and 3) setup some entity to protect
yourself, such as an LLC.  They can't come after
your personal assets if it's done correctly.</p><p>Of course, if you have no net worth and are
setting this up by maxing out a credit card then
maybe you're not so concerned.  Let them sue away,
and find out that you are a shallow pocket with
nothing but a months supply of ramen noodles and
thousands of dollars in student loan debt.  Add insult
to injury by defending yourself for nothing vs.
their $500/hour attorneys.  They might figure out
a way to garnish your future earnings though; so
setup the LLC anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IANAL , but if you think it might make serious money I 'd like to insert ( between steps 2 and 3 ) setup some entity to protect yourself , such as an LLC .
They ca n't come after your personal assets if it 's done correctly.Of course , if you have no net worth and are setting this up by maxing out a credit card then maybe you 're not so concerned .
Let them sue away , and find out that you are a shallow pocket with nothing but a months supply of ramen noodles and thousands of dollars in student loan debt .
Add insult to injury by defending yourself for nothing vs . their $ 500/hour attorneys .
They might figure out a way to garnish your future earnings though ; so setup the LLC anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IANAL, but if you think it might make
serious money I'd like to insert (between
steps 2 and 3) setup some entity to protect
yourself, such as an LLC.
They can't come after
your personal assets if it's done correctly.Of course, if you have no net worth and are
setting this up by maxing out a credit card then
maybe you're not so concerned.
Let them sue away,
and find out that you are a shallow pocket with
nothing but a months supply of ramen noodles and
thousands of dollars in student loan debt.
Add insult
to injury by defending yourself for nothing vs.
their $500/hour attorneys.
They might figure out
a way to garnish your future earnings though; so
setup the LLC anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756877</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29759649</id>
	<title>A word of advice</title>
	<author>V!NCENT</author>
	<datestamp>1255631460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A good patent might not make you any money, but a published article might get you a good job. Plus; you do the world a favor by helping it and not limiting it. If you do not have a huge law firm, which you do not have, and a huge amount of money then I'd say publish! This increases your chance of getting a good amount of money and you'd be helphing in making the world a bit better to live in!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>A good patent might not make you any money , but a published article might get you a good job .
Plus ; you do the world a favor by helping it and not limiting it .
If you do not have a huge law firm , which you do not have , and a huge amount of money then I 'd say publish !
This increases your chance of getting a good amount of money and you 'd be helphing in making the world a bit better to live in !
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A good patent might not make you any money, but a published article might get you a good job.
Plus; you do the world a favor by helping it and not limiting it.
If you do not have a huge law firm, which you do not have, and a huge amount of money then I'd say publish!
This increases your chance of getting a good amount of money and you'd be helphing in making the world a bit better to live in!
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29760661</id>
	<title>Re:Small entity?</title>
	<author>systemeng</author>
	<datestamp>1255635840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was advised by my company's IP lawyer about some work I did on a sabbatical that the easiest way to protect yourself by not patenting is to file a provisional patent and then abandon the application.  The fees and hassle are lower that the full patent and the provisional patent is good for a year.  Finally, one can also file a statutory invention disclosure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was advised by my company 's IP lawyer about some work I did on a sabbatical that the easiest way to protect yourself by not patenting is to file a provisional patent and then abandon the application .
The fees and hassle are lower that the full patent and the provisional patent is good for a year .
Finally , one can also file a statutory invention disclosure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was advised by my company's IP lawyer about some work I did on a sabbatical that the easiest way to protect yourself by not patenting is to file a provisional patent and then abandon the application.
The fees and hassle are lower that the full patent and the provisional patent is good for a year.
Finally, one can also file a statutory invention disclosure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29765729</id>
	<title>Re:come on</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255626900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being a big geek rocks. - Not really - it will just get you punched in the face?<br>http://www.heaven-or-hell-its-your-choice.com/book/car\_bomb.htm</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being a big geek rocks .
- Not really - it will just get you punched in the face ? http : //www.heaven-or-hell-its-your-choice.com/book/car \ _bomb.htm</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being a big geek rocks.
- Not really - it will just get you punched in the face?http://www.heaven-or-hell-its-your-choice.com/book/car\_bomb.htm</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29765087</id>
	<title>Re:You can do both</title>
	<author>KTheorem</author>
	<datestamp>1255618140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't the entire point of patents to be a tutorial on how to accomplish what's described? Patents are there solely to combat the existence of trade secrets (using monopoly incentives to achieve this). It totally defeats the purpose to give a patent on something that does not inform a knowledgeable reader on how to implement the invention.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't the entire point of patents to be a tutorial on how to accomplish what 's described ?
Patents are there solely to combat the existence of trade secrets ( using monopoly incentives to achieve this ) .
It totally defeats the purpose to give a patent on something that does not inform a knowledgeable reader on how to implement the invention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't the entire point of patents to be a tutorial on how to accomplish what's described?
Patents are there solely to combat the existence of trade secrets (using monopoly incentives to achieve this).
It totally defeats the purpose to give a patent on something that does not inform a knowledgeable reader on how to implement the invention.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757475</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29758401</id>
	<title>Re:Publish, don't patent</title>
	<author>nomadic</author>
	<datestamp>1255625880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i> Unless you have the resources to hire a cadre of lawyers, you won't even be able to defend infringements.</i>
<br>
<br>
If you have a really strong case, there are a few firms who will take it on contingency.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless you have the resources to hire a cadre of lawyers , you wo n't even be able to defend infringements .
If you have a really strong case , there are a few firms who will take it on contingency .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Unless you have the resources to hire a cadre of lawyers, you won't even be able to defend infringements.
If you have a really strong case, there are a few firms who will take it on contingency.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756877</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756659</id>
	<title>Re:Patent if it's practical, publish if it's risky</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255618920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>prior art?</p><p>IANAL</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>prior art ? IANAL</tokentext>
<sentencetext>prior art?IANAL</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757103</id>
	<title>Re:Good Ideas are cheap</title>
	<author>swillden</author>
	<datestamp>1255620660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Ideas are a dime a dozen.
Implement something.</p><p>There is no sense in rewarding people for thinking up ideas. We simply don't need to, as good ideas will be thought out even if we don't.</p><p>The problem is finding people who would implement those ideas.</p></div><p>Agreed.

</p><p>The notion of patents was created to protect not just ideas, but inventions -- complex collections of moving parts.  At the heart of a truly novel invention, there's typically one or two really good ideas, but those ideas are just the beginning of the effort needing to make something that actually <i>works</i>.

</p><p>Take your idea, and build something from it, and then you'll have something of value to protect.  The idea itself isn't worth much.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ideas are a dime a dozen .
Implement something.There is no sense in rewarding people for thinking up ideas .
We simply do n't need to , as good ideas will be thought out even if we do n't.The problem is finding people who would implement those ideas.Agreed .
The notion of patents was created to protect not just ideas , but inventions -- complex collections of moving parts .
At the heart of a truly novel invention , there 's typically one or two really good ideas , but those ideas are just the beginning of the effort needing to make something that actually works .
Take your idea , and build something from it , and then you 'll have something of value to protect .
The idea itself is n't worth much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ideas are a dime a dozen.
Implement something.There is no sense in rewarding people for thinking up ideas.
We simply don't need to, as good ideas will be thought out even if we don't.The problem is finding people who would implement those ideas.Agreed.
The notion of patents was created to protect not just ideas, but inventions -- complex collections of moving parts.
At the heart of a truly novel invention, there's typically one or two really good ideas, but those ideas are just the beginning of the effort needing to make something that actually works.
Take your idea, and build something from it, and then you'll have something of value to protect.
The idea itself isn't worth much.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756755</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29756349</id>
	<title>Big Money comes from Big Risks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255617300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Big Money comes from Big Risks. That includes financial risks.</p><p>If your idea is any good, then by all means patent it. Weight your future gains against what it'll cost you to file the application. Be the Big Boy, and if your idea has the Big Balls, then take the Big Risk and patent it so that you can somebody maybe make the Big Money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Big Money comes from Big Risks .
That includes financial risks.If your idea is any good , then by all means patent it .
Weight your future gains against what it 'll cost you to file the application .
Be the Big Boy , and if your idea has the Big Balls , then take the Big Risk and patent it so that you can somebody maybe make the Big Money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Big Money comes from Big Risks.
That includes financial risks.If your idea is any good, then by all means patent it.
Weight your future gains against what it'll cost you to file the application.
Be the Big Boy, and if your idea has the Big Balls, then take the Big Risk and patent it so that you can somebody maybe make the Big Money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_15_1319248.29757883</id>
	<title>If it won't stand up to peer review</title>
	<author>OglinTatas</author>
	<datestamp>1255623720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then you're better off patenting it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then you 're better off patenting it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then you're better off patenting it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_15_1319248_4</id>
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