<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_12_1512238</id>
	<title>FOSS Sexism Claims Met With Ire and Denial</title>
	<author>ScuttleMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1255366020000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Last Friday Bryce Byfield gave us a little insight into the fallout surrounding his article on <a href="http://www.linux-magazine.com/content/view/full/40376">sexism in the FOSS world</a>.  Unfortunately it seems that FOSS junkies did little better than the rest of the world with respect to sexism, displaying similar levels of denial, abuse, and ignorance.  <i>"But the real flood of emotion comes from the anti-feminists and the average men who would like to deny the importance of feminist issues in FOSS. Raise the subject of sexism, and you are met with illogic that I can only compare to that of the tobacco companies trying to deny the link between their products and cancer.  Because I took a feminist stance in public, I have been abused in every way possible &mdash; being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, homosexual, and even a betrayer of the community. I know that many women in the community have been attacked much more savagely than I have, so I'm not complaining. Nor am I a stranger to readers who disagree with me, but the depth of reaction has taken me back more than once. I think the reaction is an expression of denial more than anything else."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Last Friday Bryce Byfield gave us a little insight into the fallout surrounding his article on sexism in the FOSS world .
Unfortunately it seems that FOSS junkies did little better than the rest of the world with respect to sexism , displaying similar levels of denial , abuse , and ignorance .
" But the real flood of emotion comes from the anti-feminists and the average men who would like to deny the importance of feminist issues in FOSS .
Raise the subject of sexism , and you are met with illogic that I can only compare to that of the tobacco companies trying to deny the link between their products and cancer .
Because I took a feminist stance in public , I have been abused in every way possible    being called irrelevant , a saboteur , coward , homosexual , and even a betrayer of the community .
I know that many women in the community have been attacked much more savagely than I have , so I 'm not complaining .
Nor am I a stranger to readers who disagree with me , but the depth of reaction has taken me back more than once .
I think the reaction is an expression of denial more than anything else .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last Friday Bryce Byfield gave us a little insight into the fallout surrounding his article on sexism in the FOSS world.
Unfortunately it seems that FOSS junkies did little better than the rest of the world with respect to sexism, displaying similar levels of denial, abuse, and ignorance.
"But the real flood of emotion comes from the anti-feminists and the average men who would like to deny the importance of feminist issues in FOSS.
Raise the subject of sexism, and you are met with illogic that I can only compare to that of the tobacco companies trying to deny the link between their products and cancer.
Because I took a feminist stance in public, I have been abused in every way possible — being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, homosexual, and even a betrayer of the community.
I know that many women in the community have been attacked much more savagely than I have, so I'm not complaining.
Nor am I a stranger to readers who disagree with me, but the depth of reaction has taken me back more than once.
I think the reaction is an expression of denial more than anything else.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722379</id>
	<title>Re:reports of ire and denial met with ire and deni</title>
	<author>theelectron</author>
	<datestamp>1255377120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some guys get defensive because they might identify with a group (FOSS) and get labeled sexist (as above) while not exhibiting sexist behaviors.  Some people consider this unjust and become offended when unjustly accused of something.  Many women feel offended by sexist behaviors, just as some men feel offended by by being accused of being sexist simply by being a male and not because of any actions they have taken.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some guys get defensive because they might identify with a group ( FOSS ) and get labeled sexist ( as above ) while not exhibiting sexist behaviors .
Some people consider this unjust and become offended when unjustly accused of something .
Many women feel offended by sexist behaviors , just as some men feel offended by by being accused of being sexist simply by being a male and not because of any actions they have taken .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some guys get defensive because they might identify with a group (FOSS) and get labeled sexist (as above) while not exhibiting sexist behaviors.
Some people consider this unjust and become offended when unjustly accused of something.
Many women feel offended by sexist behaviors, just as some men feel offended by by being accused of being sexist simply by being a male and not because of any actions they have taken.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720955</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727289</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>kaidadragonfly</author>
	<datestamp>1255357980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've considered leaving Slashdot because it is not very female friendly, and I am definitely not reading it raw.</p><p>It's not as bad as some places, but days like today I start to feel it's not really worth it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've considered leaving Slashdot because it is not very female friendly , and I am definitely not reading it raw.It 's not as bad as some places , but days like today I start to feel it 's not really worth it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've considered leaving Slashdot because it is not very female friendly, and I am definitely not reading it raw.It's not as bad as some places, but days like today I start to feel it's not really worth it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724007</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727701</id>
	<title>Re:Feminism is destructive</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1255360980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Feminism is at is base a destructive doctrine.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Feminism is dead or more has run its course and finished. What remains now is simply sexism, true feminists accomplished their goals decades ago and this is indicated by women like your wife not only being able to get and hold a professional job but to excel at it. Opportunities to succeed are now equal but not all people are able or willing to actually work for it, this is where the female sexist comes in, much like their male counterpart they just want things their own way and think that attacking others is the way to get it and it is this that is inherently self destructive.</p><blockquote><div><p>I truly believe that racism and sexism are essentially dead with my generation.</p></div></blockquote><p>

I wish I could say this but as long as people are attacking each other over their race in Cronulla we still have a problem.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Feminism is at is base a destructive doctrine .
Feminism is dead or more has run its course and finished .
What remains now is simply sexism , true feminists accomplished their goals decades ago and this is indicated by women like your wife not only being able to get and hold a professional job but to excel at it .
Opportunities to succeed are now equal but not all people are able or willing to actually work for it , this is where the female sexist comes in , much like their male counterpart they just want things their own way and think that attacking others is the way to get it and it is this that is inherently self destructive.I truly believe that racism and sexism are essentially dead with my generation .
I wish I could say this but as long as people are attacking each other over their race in Cronulla we still have a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Feminism is at is base a destructive doctrine.
Feminism is dead or more has run its course and finished.
What remains now is simply sexism, true feminists accomplished their goals decades ago and this is indicated by women like your wife not only being able to get and hold a professional job but to excel at it.
Opportunities to succeed are now equal but not all people are able or willing to actually work for it, this is where the female sexist comes in, much like their male counterpart they just want things their own way and think that attacking others is the way to get it and it is this that is inherently self destructive.I truly believe that racism and sexism are essentially dead with my generation.
I wish I could say this but as long as people are attacking each other over their race in Cronulla we still have a problem.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720981</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720959</id>
	<title>Useless</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255372080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No one cares.  This is useless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No one cares .
This is useless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one cares.
This is useless.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721555</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255374000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're not asking out just as many men as women, you are being sexist, you insensitive clod!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're not asking out just as many men as women , you are being sexist , you insensitive clod !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're not asking out just as many men as women, you are being sexist, you insensitive clod!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720879</id>
	<title>Not complaining?</title>
	<author>zerobeat</author>
	<datestamp>1255371780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You say women have it worse, so you are not complaining? But the sentence above is a long list of your complaints.

Hey I agree with you, sexism anywhere is only unproductive and goes against the ethos of FOSS - but those two sentences in the middle of your post has such sharp hypocrisy, it cut me in half.

Just because you are a boy, you don't have to belittle the prejudice you have suffered so the girls can look more important. It sux you have been slandered for defending women - complain about it!

Z/</htmltext>
<tokenext>You say women have it worse , so you are not complaining ?
But the sentence above is a long list of your complaints .
Hey I agree with you , sexism anywhere is only unproductive and goes against the ethos of FOSS - but those two sentences in the middle of your post has such sharp hypocrisy , it cut me in half .
Just because you are a boy , you do n't have to belittle the prejudice you have suffered so the girls can look more important .
It sux you have been slandered for defending women - complain about it !
Z/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You say women have it worse, so you are not complaining?
But the sentence above is a long list of your complaints.
Hey I agree with you, sexism anywhere is only unproductive and goes against the ethos of FOSS - but those two sentences in the middle of your post has such sharp hypocrisy, it cut me in half.
Just because you are a boy, you don't have to belittle the prejudice you have suffered so the girls can look more important.
It sux you have been slandered for defending women - complain about it!
Z/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29840755</id>
	<title>Sexism is overrated.</title>
	<author>flajann</author>
	<datestamp>1256209380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've been a software developer for 30 years now, and I can tell you first hand the number of women software developers I've encountered over that time I could count on one hand. And probably with a finger or two left over.<p>

Now enter FOSS. I can't recall encountering a single female FOSS developer. Ever.</p><p>

Nobody turns you down from being a FOSS developer if you can do the work. Just DO IT. 'Nuff said. The rest will attend to itself.</p><p>

Now, as far as sexism in general, us men get a tough break. We're considered less than human; expendable. Who gets drafted? When they talk about causalities among the civilian population, they usually speak in terms of "women and children." What about the *men*? Don't they matter? I guess not.</p><p>

Sexism floats both ways. Women will talk about men as "objects of desire" as much as men speak of women as the same. Yet, when a man does it, it's called "sexism". What is it called when women does it? Maybe I should go to a male revue and ask the ladies there.</p><p>

So why do we have this double standard? Where did that come from? It's rather silly, really.</p><p>

Now, having said that, there's another issue afoot. The extreme asymmetry of the number of women who participate in software development period, let alone FOSS. It's really sad in this day and age where nearly all barriers to women have been eliminated. </p><p>

The article I read here did not cite any specific examples of sexism, but just whined about them. I think many things that gets called "sexism" isn't really. Especially when women do the *same thing themselves* in respect to men.</p><p>

It's called human nature, and it has its evolutionary antecedents. Live with it. Enjoy it. Love it. And stop bitching about it.</p><p>

If a woman is denied entry into the FOSS arena just for being a woman, that's one thing. But if someone makes an off-color statement, it's really not worth getting your nickers in a twist about it, right? Right. Because women make as many, if not more off-color statements about us men when we're not around to hear them -- and even sometimes when we are. Funny how no one brings the house down about that. Men are people too, you know, just in case you forgot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been a software developer for 30 years now , and I can tell you first hand the number of women software developers I 've encountered over that time I could count on one hand .
And probably with a finger or two left over .
Now enter FOSS .
I ca n't recall encountering a single female FOSS developer .
Ever . Nobody turns you down from being a FOSS developer if you can do the work .
Just DO IT .
'Nuff said .
The rest will attend to itself .
Now , as far as sexism in general , us men get a tough break .
We 're considered less than human ; expendable .
Who gets drafted ?
When they talk about causalities among the civilian population , they usually speak in terms of " women and children .
" What about the * men * ?
Do n't they matter ?
I guess not .
Sexism floats both ways .
Women will talk about men as " objects of desire " as much as men speak of women as the same .
Yet , when a man does it , it 's called " sexism " .
What is it called when women does it ?
Maybe I should go to a male revue and ask the ladies there .
So why do we have this double standard ?
Where did that come from ?
It 's rather silly , really .
Now , having said that , there 's another issue afoot .
The extreme asymmetry of the number of women who participate in software development period , let alone FOSS .
It 's really sad in this day and age where nearly all barriers to women have been eliminated .
The article I read here did not cite any specific examples of sexism , but just whined about them .
I think many things that gets called " sexism " is n't really .
Especially when women do the * same thing themselves * in respect to men .
It 's called human nature , and it has its evolutionary antecedents .
Live with it .
Enjoy it .
Love it .
And stop bitching about it .
If a woman is denied entry into the FOSS arena just for being a woman , that 's one thing .
But if someone makes an off-color statement , it 's really not worth getting your nickers in a twist about it , right ?
Right. Because women make as many , if not more off-color statements about us men when we 're not around to hear them -- and even sometimes when we are .
Funny how no one brings the house down about that .
Men are people too , you know , just in case you forgot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been a software developer for 30 years now, and I can tell you first hand the number of women software developers I've encountered over that time I could count on one hand.
And probably with a finger or two left over.
Now enter FOSS.
I can't recall encountering a single female FOSS developer.
Ever.

Nobody turns you down from being a FOSS developer if you can do the work.
Just DO IT.
'Nuff said.
The rest will attend to itself.
Now, as far as sexism in general, us men get a tough break.
We're considered less than human; expendable.
Who gets drafted?
When they talk about causalities among the civilian population, they usually speak in terms of "women and children.
" What about the *men*?
Don't they matter?
I guess not.
Sexism floats both ways.
Women will talk about men as "objects of desire" as much as men speak of women as the same.
Yet, when a man does it, it's called "sexism".
What is it called when women does it?
Maybe I should go to a male revue and ask the ladies there.
So why do we have this double standard?
Where did that come from?
It's rather silly, really.
Now, having said that, there's another issue afoot.
The extreme asymmetry of the number of women who participate in software development period, let alone FOSS.
It's really sad in this day and age where nearly all barriers to women have been eliminated.
The article I read here did not cite any specific examples of sexism, but just whined about them.
I think many things that gets called "sexism" isn't really.
Especially when women do the *same thing themselves* in respect to men.
It's called human nature, and it has its evolutionary antecedents.
Live with it.
Enjoy it.
Love it.
And stop bitching about it.
If a woman is denied entry into the FOSS arena just for being a woman, that's one thing.
But if someone makes an off-color statement, it's really not worth getting your nickers in a twist about it, right?
Right. Because women make as many, if not more off-color statements about us men when we're not around to hear them -- and even sometimes when we are.
Funny how no one brings the house down about that.
Men are people too, you know, just in case you forgot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723269</id>
	<title>Hello World</title>
	<author>FunkyELF</author>
	<datestamp>1255381080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>#!/usr/bin/env python</p><p>acceptable = ("m", "f")<br>x = None</p><p>while x not in acceptable:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; x = raw\_input("Are you male or female? [\%s]? " \% ', '.join(acceptable))</p><p>if x == 'f':<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; print "Sorry, you cannot use this program... you're dumb"<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; exit(1)</p><p>#<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... rest of program<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>print 'hello world'</p></htmltext>
<tokenext># ! /usr/bin/env pythonacceptable = ( " m " , " f " ) x = Nonewhile x not in acceptable :         x = raw \ _input ( " Are you male or female ?
[ \ % s ] ? " \ % ' , '.join ( acceptable ) ) if x = = 'f ' :         print " Sorry , you can not use this program... you 're dumb "         exit ( 1 ) # ... rest of program ...print 'hello world'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>#!/usr/bin/env pythonacceptable = ("m", "f")x = Nonewhile x not in acceptable:
        x = raw\_input("Are you male or female?
[\%s]? " \% ', '.join(acceptable))if x == 'f':
        print "Sorry, you cannot use this program... you're dumb"
        exit(1)# ... rest of program ...print 'hello world'</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724135</id>
	<title>Wait a minute</title>
	<author>AlgorithMan</author>
	<datestamp>1255341120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Wait a minute... women's participation in GEEK DATING is over seventeen times lower than it is in regular-men dating... so does that mean that geeks refuse dating women?<br> <br>

okay, that analogy is a bit exaggerated. I think everyone has SOME prejudice - I heard from a psychologist once, that we adapt the prejudices from our parents. I guess smart people are sooner prepared to abandon them and I guess that FOSS programmers don't care much about who wrote the code, they care more about the quality of the code... okay, they'll double-check the code for backdoors if it came from a muslim... or a chinese... or a russian... or an eastern european... or an african... or a frenchman...<br> <br>

well anyways - as someone who tutored some computer-science courses, it is my impression, that most women don't enjoy programming that much... they do what is neccessary to pass the exam, but none of the ones in my classes ever swept the board. Most of them don't seem to have the passion for it, so it makes sense to me, that they don't program on their leisure time...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>women 's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development .
Wait a minute... women 's participation in GEEK DATING is over seventeen times lower than it is in regular-men dating... so does that mean that geeks refuse dating women ?
okay , that analogy is a bit exaggerated .
I think everyone has SOME prejudice - I heard from a psychologist once , that we adapt the prejudices from our parents .
I guess smart people are sooner prepared to abandon them and I guess that FOSS programmers do n't care much about who wrote the code , they care more about the quality of the code... okay , they 'll double-check the code for backdoors if it came from a muslim... or a chinese... or a russian... or an eastern european... or an african... or a frenchman.. . well anyways - as someone who tutored some computer-science courses , it is my impression , that most women do n't enjoy programming that much... they do what is neccessary to pass the exam , but none of the ones in my classes ever swept the board .
Most of them do n't seem to have the passion for it , so it makes sense to me , that they do n't program on their leisure time.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.
Wait a minute... women's participation in GEEK DATING is over seventeen times lower than it is in regular-men dating... so does that mean that geeks refuse dating women?
okay, that analogy is a bit exaggerated.
I think everyone has SOME prejudice - I heard from a psychologist once, that we adapt the prejudices from our parents.
I guess smart people are sooner prepared to abandon them and I guess that FOSS programmers don't care much about who wrote the code, they care more about the quality of the code... okay, they'll double-check the code for backdoors if it came from a muslim... or a chinese... or a russian... or an eastern european... or an african... or a frenchman... 

well anyways - as someone who tutored some computer-science courses, it is my impression, that most women don't enjoy programming that much... they do what is neccessary to pass the exam, but none of the ones in my classes ever swept the board.
Most of them don't seem to have the passion for it, so it makes sense to me, that they don't program on their leisure time...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722889</id>
	<title>Get's you thinking...</title>
	<author>benjamindees</author>
	<datestamp>1255379220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It makes me think that the equal employment opportunity laws are likely hampering the US economy by encouraging women to work in fields in which they are not particularly interested or show particular aptitude.</p><p>But hey, it's not like rational analysis of statistical facts has anything to do with flag-waving issues such as these, or even the US economy for that matter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It makes me think that the equal employment opportunity laws are likely hampering the US economy by encouraging women to work in fields in which they are not particularly interested or show particular aptitude.But hey , it 's not like rational analysis of statistical facts has anything to do with flag-waving issues such as these , or even the US economy for that matter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It makes me think that the equal employment opportunity laws are likely hampering the US economy by encouraging women to work in fields in which they are not particularly interested or show particular aptitude.But hey, it's not like rational analysis of statistical facts has anything to do with flag-waving issues such as these, or even the US economy for that matter.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722285</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>Junior J. Junior III</author>
	<datestamp>1255376640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour?</i></p><p>Very obviously it is sexist because you did not ask out an equal number of men, proportionate to the standard distribution of gender in our species.  You clearly have a bias for asking out women, not men, and are therefore sexist.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour ? Very obviously it is sexist because you did not ask out an equal number of men , proportionate to the standard distribution of gender in our species .
You clearly have a bias for asking out women , not men , and are therefore sexist .
: P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour?Very obviously it is sexist because you did not ask out an equal number of men, proportionate to the standard distribution of gender in our species.
You clearly have a bias for asking out women, not men, and are therefore sexist.
:P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723421</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>PitaBred</author>
	<datestamp>1255338540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Get me thinking what? That maybe guys pursue technical things as a hobby more than women? My wife is a very smart, technically proficient woman. She still leaves all the home electronics and such to me. It's just not something she finds fun. It's just an anecdote, but I doubt it's an uncommon state of affairs. FOSS is staffed mostly by people who do it for fun.<br> <br>
Why don't we get on about the sexism in aftermarket car modding? Most of the gearheads are men... that's obviously sexist! Really... why do people keep confusing coincidence with cause?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Get me thinking what ?
That maybe guys pursue technical things as a hobby more than women ?
My wife is a very smart , technically proficient woman .
She still leaves all the home electronics and such to me .
It 's just not something she finds fun .
It 's just an anecdote , but I doubt it 's an uncommon state of affairs .
FOSS is staffed mostly by people who do it for fun .
Why do n't we get on about the sexism in aftermarket car modding ?
Most of the gearheads are men... that 's obviously sexist !
Really... why do people keep confusing coincidence with cause ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get me thinking what?
That maybe guys pursue technical things as a hobby more than women?
My wife is a very smart, technically proficient woman.
She still leaves all the home electronics and such to me.
It's just not something she finds fun.
It's just an anecdote, but I doubt it's an uncommon state of affairs.
FOSS is staffed mostly by people who do it for fun.
Why don't we get on about the sexism in aftermarket car modding?
Most of the gearheads are men... that's obviously sexist!
Really... why do people keep confusing coincidence with cause?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721019</id>
	<title>Bawww, Call the Waaambulance!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255372380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fuck feminism.</p><p>Female chauvinism has been baked into Western society since the 1970's thanks to the feminist movement. Show me a humble and confident American woman who isn't profoundly sexually confused (i.e. transgendered), who isn't suffering from some kind of (probably invented) mental or emotional disorder, who doesn't think she's entitled to being treated like royalty, and I'll show you a time traveler. Women come in just three flavors now: spineless, crazy, and bitch. Choose wisely - the crazy ones usually make the most interesting company, by the way.</p><p>The woman's equality movement lost all relevance and respectability when it decided that women need to be more equal than men. I grew up with these people, I was steeped in their chauvinist bullshit, and you know what? Feminists deserve all of the abuse that they get. You can't demand special treatment and equality in the same sentence, cunts. Stop making such a big deal over what set of genitals you were born with and acquire some desperately required emotional maturity, and maybe then adults will start taking you seriously.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fuck feminism.Female chauvinism has been baked into Western society since the 1970 's thanks to the feminist movement .
Show me a humble and confident American woman who is n't profoundly sexually confused ( i.e .
transgendered ) , who is n't suffering from some kind of ( probably invented ) mental or emotional disorder , who does n't think she 's entitled to being treated like royalty , and I 'll show you a time traveler .
Women come in just three flavors now : spineless , crazy , and bitch .
Choose wisely - the crazy ones usually make the most interesting company , by the way.The woman 's equality movement lost all relevance and respectability when it decided that women need to be more equal than men .
I grew up with these people , I was steeped in their chauvinist bullshit , and you know what ?
Feminists deserve all of the abuse that they get .
You ca n't demand special treatment and equality in the same sentence , cunts .
Stop making such a big deal over what set of genitals you were born with and acquire some desperately required emotional maturity , and maybe then adults will start taking you seriously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fuck feminism.Female chauvinism has been baked into Western society since the 1970's thanks to the feminist movement.
Show me a humble and confident American woman who isn't profoundly sexually confused (i.e.
transgendered), who isn't suffering from some kind of (probably invented) mental or emotional disorder, who doesn't think she's entitled to being treated like royalty, and I'll show you a time traveler.
Women come in just three flavors now: spineless, crazy, and bitch.
Choose wisely - the crazy ones usually make the most interesting company, by the way.The woman's equality movement lost all relevance and respectability when it decided that women need to be more equal than men.
I grew up with these people, I was steeped in their chauvinist bullshit, and you know what?
Feminists deserve all of the abuse that they get.
You can't demand special treatment and equality in the same sentence, cunts.
Stop making such a big deal over what set of genitals you were born with and acquire some desperately required emotional maturity, and maybe then adults will start taking you seriously.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722047</id>
	<title>The actual slide show</title>
	<author>Rick Bentley</author>
	<datestamp>1255375680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Looks like a nice interjection of levity to me.  But then again I'm an Evil White Male and responsible for all the problems in the world and couldn't possibly understand.<div><p> <a href="http://www.slideshare.net/mattetti/couchdb-perform-like-a-pr0n-star" title="slideshare.net">CouchDB</a> [slideshare.net] </p><div><p>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looks like a nice interjection of levity to me .
But then again I 'm an Evil White Male and responsible for all the problems in the world and could n't possibly understand .
CouchDB [ slideshare.net ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looks like a nice interjection of levity to me.
But then again I'm an Evil White Male and responsible for all the problems in the world and couldn't possibly understand.
CouchDB [slideshare.net] .</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724067</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Cederic</author>
	<datestamp>1255340820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That isn't sexism, that's acerbic critique of the advertising industry.</p><p>In fact, it's supporting the feminist cause, by highlighting an area of genuine sexism, preyed upon by that advertising industry. If society at large (male and female) didn't respond positively to beautiful women in association with products (of whatever type) then the advertising industry would not continue to use them, and the comparison to kung-fu kittens would no longer be required.</p><p>Since feminism is in fact sexist (by promoting women ahead of men, irrespective of capability) then I guess the presentation was indeed sexist - against men. Seems I agree with you after all.</p><p>Denial? Only in those that don't stop to think.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is n't sexism , that 's acerbic critique of the advertising industry.In fact , it 's supporting the feminist cause , by highlighting an area of genuine sexism , preyed upon by that advertising industry .
If society at large ( male and female ) did n't respond positively to beautiful women in association with products ( of whatever type ) then the advertising industry would not continue to use them , and the comparison to kung-fu kittens would no longer be required.Since feminism is in fact sexist ( by promoting women ahead of men , irrespective of capability ) then I guess the presentation was indeed sexist - against men .
Seems I agree with you after all.Denial ?
Only in those that do n't stop to think .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That isn't sexism, that's acerbic critique of the advertising industry.In fact, it's supporting the feminist cause, by highlighting an area of genuine sexism, preyed upon by that advertising industry.
If society at large (male and female) didn't respond positively to beautiful women in association with products (of whatever type) then the advertising industry would not continue to use them, and the comparison to kung-fu kittens would no longer be required.Since feminism is in fact sexist (by promoting women ahead of men, irrespective of capability) then I guess the presentation was indeed sexist - against men.
Seems I agree with you after all.Denial?
Only in those that don't stop to think.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722899</id>
	<title>Re:let me get this straight</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255379280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?  Great going, Bruce: show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group.</p></div><p>When it's meant as an insult, yes, it's abusive to gay people. Same as people saying "that's so gay" about everything.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Being called a " homosexual " is " abuse " ?
Great going , Bruce : show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group.When it 's meant as an insult , yes , it 's abusive to gay people .
Same as people saying " that 's so gay " about everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?
Great going, Bruce: show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group.When it's meant as an insult, yes, it's abusive to gay people.
Same as people saying "that's so gay" about everything.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725205</id>
	<title>Re:Feminism is destructive</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1255345860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> I can honestly say I've never discounted someone's ideas because they were a woman, or because they had a different skin color</p></div><p>I think I can say the same, but I definitely can't make that claim on behalf of a large number of people in my age group.  Prejudice is less common now than it used to be, in most of the western world, but to say it's essentially dead is quite untrue.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can honestly say I 've never discounted someone 's ideas because they were a woman , or because they had a different skin colorI think I can say the same , but I definitely ca n't make that claim on behalf of a large number of people in my age group .
Prejudice is less common now than it used to be , in most of the western world , but to say it 's essentially dead is quite untrue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I can honestly say I've never discounted someone's ideas because they were a woman, or because they had a different skin colorI think I can say the same, but I definitely can't make that claim on behalf of a large number of people in my age group.
Prejudice is less common now than it used to be, in most of the western world, but to say it's essentially dead is quite untrue.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720981</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720669</id>
	<title>I put this in the same box as the obvious elitism</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nothing is so prevalent among FOSS developers as that chunk of people with the elitist attitude. Anyone who's ever asked for help in, let's say, #whatever-foss-project on Freenode, knows exactly what kind of people, what kind of "tough crowd", they are;  a stereotype so "nailed" you could hang a coat on it;  the know-it-all complete-opposite-of-a-people's-person.</p><p>Instead of being friendly and helpful, spending 30 seconds giving a kind answer to help another, these people instead gladly spend 5 minutes elaborating to another how stupid they are, how wrong they are, how inefficient their idea is, how bad their way of thinking is, how wrong they are for trying to learn things the way they do, how wrong they try to solve problems and solve their task, and, in the end, that they should just "rtfm/google" or similar.</p><p>People who have a hard time getting along with others in real life situations often try to assert power, as a means of compensation, where they can: in "their field".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nothing is so prevalent among FOSS developers as that chunk of people with the elitist attitude .
Anyone who 's ever asked for help in , let 's say , # whatever-foss-project on Freenode , knows exactly what kind of people , what kind of " tough crowd " , they are ; a stereotype so " nailed " you could hang a coat on it ; the know-it-all complete-opposite-of-a-people 's-person.Instead of being friendly and helpful , spending 30 seconds giving a kind answer to help another , these people instead gladly spend 5 minutes elaborating to another how stupid they are , how wrong they are , how inefficient their idea is , how bad their way of thinking is , how wrong they are for trying to learn things the way they do , how wrong they try to solve problems and solve their task , and , in the end , that they should just " rtfm/google " or similar.People who have a hard time getting along with others in real life situations often try to assert power , as a means of compensation , where they can : in " their field " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nothing is so prevalent among FOSS developers as that chunk of people with the elitist attitude.
Anyone who's ever asked for help in, let's say, #whatever-foss-project on Freenode, knows exactly what kind of people, what kind of "tough crowd", they are;  a stereotype so "nailed" you could hang a coat on it;  the know-it-all complete-opposite-of-a-people's-person.Instead of being friendly and helpful, spending 30 seconds giving a kind answer to help another, these people instead gladly spend 5 minutes elaborating to another how stupid they are, how wrong they are, how inefficient their idea is, how bad their way of thinking is, how wrong they are for trying to learn things the way they do, how wrong they try to solve problems and solve their task, and, in the end, that they should just "rtfm/google" or similar.People who have a hard time getting along with others in real life situations often try to assert power, as a means of compensation, where they can: in "their field".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723229</id>
	<title>Re:Or maybe you're wrong</title>
	<author>martyros</author>
	<datestamp>1255380900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>OK, how are we supposed to disagree without being "in denial"?</p></div></blockquote><p>Well, you could start by actually taking a hard look and seeing if what's being said is true, instead of being knee-jerk defensive.
</p><p>I haven't seen any posts here saying, "I know several women in FOSS, and I asked them if sexism was a problem, and they said 'No, I don't know what they're talking about.'"  What I see mostly is people making a bunch of arguments without actually asking, "Could this be true?  Might there be something in this?" And actually listening to people (in this case, especially women) before arguing.  The difference between "I've listened to what you said, and thought about it, but I disagree" and denial is pretty obvious.
</p><p>There's <a href="http://www.linuxchix.org/women-open-source-free-software-bibliography.html" title="linuxchix.org">plenty to read about</a> [linuxchix.org] if you're willing to look.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , how are we supposed to disagree without being " in denial " ? Well , you could start by actually taking a hard look and seeing if what 's being said is true , instead of being knee-jerk defensive .
I have n't seen any posts here saying , " I know several women in FOSS , and I asked them if sexism was a problem , and they said 'No , I do n't know what they 're talking about .
' " What I see mostly is people making a bunch of arguments without actually asking , " Could this be true ?
Might there be something in this ?
" And actually listening to people ( in this case , especially women ) before arguing .
The difference between " I 've listened to what you said , and thought about it , but I disagree " and denial is pretty obvious .
There 's plenty to read about [ linuxchix.org ] if you 're willing to look .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, how are we supposed to disagree without being "in denial"?Well, you could start by actually taking a hard look and seeing if what's being said is true, instead of being knee-jerk defensive.
I haven't seen any posts here saying, "I know several women in FOSS, and I asked them if sexism was a problem, and they said 'No, I don't know what they're talking about.
'"  What I see mostly is people making a bunch of arguments without actually asking, "Could this be true?
Might there be something in this?
" And actually listening to people (in this case, especially women) before arguing.
The difference between "I've listened to what you said, and thought about it, but I disagree" and denial is pretty obvious.
There's plenty to read about [linuxchix.org] if you're willing to look.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722975</id>
	<title>Re:reports of ire and denial met with ire and deni</title>
	<author>Stradivarius</author>
	<datestamp>1255379520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, it's amazing how defensive people get when their character is being assassinated.</p><p>Let me try a parable here.</p><p>Suppose you're a nice person, an upstanding member of the community.  Maybe you even work in some altruistic job to help at-risk kids learn to read.</p><p>Now I come along and accuse you of being a child molester. I then say "and of course every child molester is going to deny it - they don't want to go to jail.  And we all know that our society has a problem with child molestation."  Yet I offer no evidence of any act committed by you, simply the fact that some people in society, at some points in time, have molested children.</p><p>Would you not feel defensive at the accusation? Would you not deny it?</p><p>Would you not worry that some people might start to treat you as suspect?</p><p>Would you not try to understand why a total stranger would be accusing you of something so horrible?</p><p>It seems to me you would do all of these things.  It seems to me you would be fairly justified in thinking that your accuser is unhinged or has an agenda.</p><p>While accusations of sexism are not as serious as accusations of pedophilia, smears have consequences and people care about their reputation. When others start slinging mud, they're going to get upset.</p><p>Why should the "uniform and predictable" response of the unfairly accused be so "astonishing" to you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , it 's amazing how defensive people get when their character is being assassinated.Let me try a parable here.Suppose you 're a nice person , an upstanding member of the community .
Maybe you even work in some altruistic job to help at-risk kids learn to read.Now I come along and accuse you of being a child molester .
I then say " and of course every child molester is going to deny it - they do n't want to go to jail .
And we all know that our society has a problem with child molestation .
" Yet I offer no evidence of any act committed by you , simply the fact that some people in society , at some points in time , have molested children.Would you not feel defensive at the accusation ?
Would you not deny it ? Would you not worry that some people might start to treat you as suspect ? Would you not try to understand why a total stranger would be accusing you of something so horrible ? It seems to me you would do all of these things .
It seems to me you would be fairly justified in thinking that your accuser is unhinged or has an agenda.While accusations of sexism are not as serious as accusations of pedophilia , smears have consequences and people care about their reputation .
When others start slinging mud , they 're going to get upset.Why should the " uniform and predictable " response of the unfairly accused be so " astonishing " to you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, it's amazing how defensive people get when their character is being assassinated.Let me try a parable here.Suppose you're a nice person, an upstanding member of the community.
Maybe you even work in some altruistic job to help at-risk kids learn to read.Now I come along and accuse you of being a child molester.
I then say "and of course every child molester is going to deny it - they don't want to go to jail.
And we all know that our society has a problem with child molestation.
"  Yet I offer no evidence of any act committed by you, simply the fact that some people in society, at some points in time, have molested children.Would you not feel defensive at the accusation?
Would you not deny it?Would you not worry that some people might start to treat you as suspect?Would you not try to understand why a total stranger would be accusing you of something so horrible?It seems to me you would do all of these things.
It seems to me you would be fairly justified in thinking that your accuser is unhinged or has an agenda.While accusations of sexism are not as serious as accusations of pedophilia, smears have consequences and people care about their reputation.
When others start slinging mud, they're going to get upset.Why should the "uniform and predictable" response of the unfairly accused be so "astonishing" to you?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720955</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720461</id>
	<title>Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255370040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>33</p><p>Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger! If handled properly, your apeman will give years of valuable, if reluctant, service.</p><p>INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.<br>You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model. Field niggers work best in a serial configuration, i.e. chained together. Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it, and don't even think about taking that chain off, ever. Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them. This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud. House niggers work best as standalone units, but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape. At this stage, your nigger can also be given a name. Most owners use the same names over and over, since niggers become confused by too much data. Rufus, Rastus, Remus, Toby, Carslisle, Carlton, Hey-You!-Yes-you!, Yeller, Blackstar, and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger. If your nigger is a ho, it should be called Latrelle, L'Tanya, or Jemima. Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke. Pearl, Blossom, and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes. These names go straight over your nigger's head, by the way.</p><p>CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGER<br>Owing to a design error, your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords. Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - "muh dick" being the most popular. However, others make barking, yelping, yapping noises and appear to be in some pain, so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger's tongue. Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least, you won't hear it complaining anywhere near as much. Niggers have nothing interesting to say, anyway. Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons (yours, mine, and that of women, not the nigger's). This is strongly recommended, and frankly, it's a mystery why this is not done on the boat</p><p>HOUSING YOUR NIGGER.<br>Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars. Make sure, however, that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through. The rule of thumb is, four niggers per square yard of cage. So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers. You can site a nigger cage anywhere, even on soft ground. Don't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage. Niggers never invented the shovel before and they're not about to now. In any case, your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape. As long as the free food holds out, your nigger is living better than it did in Africa, so it will stay put. Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage, as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.</p><p>FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.<br>Your Nigger likes fried chicken, corn bread, and watermelon. You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly doesn't deserve it. Instead, feed it on porridge with salt, and creek water. Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields, other niggers, etc. Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat, but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day. Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer, since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives. He reports he doesn't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result. You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work, since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained. You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton. You really would. Coffee beans? Don't ask. You have no idea.</p><p>MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.<br>Niggers are very, very averse to work of any kind. The nigg</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>33Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger !
If handled properly , your apeman will give years of valuable , if reluctant , service.INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model .
Field niggers work best in a serial configuration , i.e .
chained together .
Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it , and do n't even think about taking that chain off , ever .
Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them .
This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud .
House niggers work best as standalone units , but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape .
At this stage , your nigger can also be given a name .
Most owners use the same names over and over , since niggers become confused by too much data .
Rufus , Rastus , Remus , Toby , Carslisle , Carlton , Hey-You ! -Yes-you ! , Yeller , Blackstar , and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger .
If your nigger is a ho , it should be called Latrelle , L'Tanya , or Jemima .
Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke .
Pearl , Blossom , and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes .
These names go straight over your nigger 's head , by the way.CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGEROwing to a design error , your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords .
Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - " muh dick " being the most popular .
However , others make barking , yelping , yapping noises and appear to be in some pain , so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger 's tongue .
Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least , you wo n't hear it complaining anywhere near as much .
Niggers have nothing interesting to say , anyway .
Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons ( yours , mine , and that of women , not the nigger 's ) .
This is strongly recommended , and frankly , it 's a mystery why this is not done on the boatHOUSING YOUR NIGGER.Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars .
Make sure , however , that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through .
The rule of thumb is , four niggers per square yard of cage .
So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers .
You can site a nigger cage anywhere , even on soft ground .
Do n't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage .
Niggers never invented the shovel before and they 're not about to now .
In any case , your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape .
As long as the free food holds out , your nigger is living better than it did in Africa , so it will stay put .
Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage , as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.Your Nigger likes fried chicken , corn bread , and watermelon .
You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly does n't deserve it .
Instead , feed it on porridge with salt , and creek water .
Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields , other niggers , etc .
Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat , but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day .
Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer , since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives .
He reports he does n't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result .
You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work , since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained .
You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton .
You really would .
Coffee beans ?
Do n't ask .
You have no idea.MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.Niggers are very , very averse to work of any kind .
The nigg</tokentext>
<sentencetext>33Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger!
If handled properly, your apeman will give years of valuable, if reluctant, service.INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model.
Field niggers work best in a serial configuration, i.e.
chained together.
Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it, and don't even think about taking that chain off, ever.
Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them.
This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud.
House niggers work best as standalone units, but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape.
At this stage, your nigger can also be given a name.
Most owners use the same names over and over, since niggers become confused by too much data.
Rufus, Rastus, Remus, Toby, Carslisle, Carlton, Hey-You!-Yes-you!, Yeller, Blackstar, and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger.
If your nigger is a ho, it should be called Latrelle, L'Tanya, or Jemima.
Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke.
Pearl, Blossom, and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes.
These names go straight over your nigger's head, by the way.CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGEROwing to a design error, your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords.
Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - "muh dick" being the most popular.
However, others make barking, yelping, yapping noises and appear to be in some pain, so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger's tongue.
Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least, you won't hear it complaining anywhere near as much.
Niggers have nothing interesting to say, anyway.
Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons (yours, mine, and that of women, not the nigger's).
This is strongly recommended, and frankly, it's a mystery why this is not done on the boatHOUSING YOUR NIGGER.Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars.
Make sure, however, that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through.
The rule of thumb is, four niggers per square yard of cage.
So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers.
You can site a nigger cage anywhere, even on soft ground.
Don't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage.
Niggers never invented the shovel before and they're not about to now.
In any case, your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape.
As long as the free food holds out, your nigger is living better than it did in Africa, so it will stay put.
Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage, as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.Your Nigger likes fried chicken, corn bread, and watermelon.
You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly doesn't deserve it.
Instead, feed it on porridge with salt, and creek water.
Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields, other niggers, etc.
Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat, but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day.
Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer, since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives.
He reports he doesn't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result.
You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work, since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained.
You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton.
You really would.
Coffee beans?
Don't ask.
You have no idea.MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.Niggers are very, very averse to work of any kind.
The nigg</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720655</id>
	<title>Or maybe you're wrong</title>
	<author>Tubal-Cain</author>
	<datestamp>1255370940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> I think the reaction is an expression of denial more than anything else.</p></div><p>OK, how are we supposed to disagree without being "in denial"?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the reaction is an expression of denial more than anything else.OK , how are we supposed to disagree without being " in denial " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I think the reaction is an expression of denial more than anything else.OK, how are we supposed to disagree without being "in denial"?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722815</id>
	<title>kitchen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255378920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What are all these women doing out of the kitchen?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What are all these women doing out of the kitchen ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What are all these women doing out of the kitchen?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721189</id>
	<title>Stand up for equality!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255372860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><tt>echo "alias woman=man" &gt;&gt; ~/.bashrc</tt></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>echo " alias woman = man " &gt; &gt; ~ /.bashrc</tokentext>
<sentencetext>echo "alias woman=man" &gt;&gt; ~/.bashrc</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727677</id>
	<title>Re:Feminism is destructive</title>
	<author>mrsteele</author>
	<datestamp>1255360740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are more fulfilled providing for your family outside the home because that's who you are.</p><p>Your wife is more fulfilled being present in the home to raise your children because that's who she is.</p><p>It's certainly not because your a man and she's a woman. Plenty of women would prefer a job over staying home with the kids, and there are men out there that would like to stay home.</p><p>You ideas are inherently sexist, and contribute to a system in which women are generally *expected* to stay home, and a man is *expected* earn the family's living. That makes your comment about sexism being dead especially hilarious.</p><p>All people are equal, not all people are the same. Not all women are the same. Not all men are the same. That's one of the key points of the civil rights movement (including modern feminism): allowing people to make their own choices.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are more fulfilled providing for your family outside the home because that 's who you are.Your wife is more fulfilled being present in the home to raise your children because that 's who she is.It 's certainly not because your a man and she 's a woman .
Plenty of women would prefer a job over staying home with the kids , and there are men out there that would like to stay home.You ideas are inherently sexist , and contribute to a system in which women are generally * expected * to stay home , and a man is * expected * earn the family 's living .
That makes your comment about sexism being dead especially hilarious.All people are equal , not all people are the same .
Not all women are the same .
Not all men are the same .
That 's one of the key points of the civil rights movement ( including modern feminism ) : allowing people to make their own choices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are more fulfilled providing for your family outside the home because that's who you are.Your wife is more fulfilled being present in the home to raise your children because that's who she is.It's certainly not because your a man and she's a woman.
Plenty of women would prefer a job over staying home with the kids, and there are men out there that would like to stay home.You ideas are inherently sexist, and contribute to a system in which women are generally *expected* to stay home, and a man is *expected* earn the family's living.
That makes your comment about sexism being dead especially hilarious.All people are equal, not all people are the same.
Not all women are the same.
Not all men are the same.
That's one of the key points of the civil rights movement (including modern feminism): allowing people to make their own choices.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720981</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720895</id>
	<title>No, he's mistaken.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"But the real flood of emotion comes from the anti-feminists and the average men who would like to deny the importance of feminist issues in FOSS. "</p><p>They "deny" the importance?  HOW DARE THEY?!!</p><p>Doesn't that statement beg an enormous question - if feminist 'issues' have an inherent importance in FOSS at all?</p><p>Flame me if you want, but to me the answer's simply: no.</p><p>Pardon me, but it's SOFTWARE.  And specifically, we're not even talking about actual coding, this is about the paradigm of coding software as Free Open Source.  Oh noes, the forums on FOSS have some mouth-breathers who pop wood at the idea there might be a woman reading the text.  Hello?  Who cares?  If Nancy Codemistress feels it's so important to identify her gender there, she can take what she gets.  If it offends her sensibilities, then perhaps she should log in as Dogbert next time?</p><p>(And for those who are about to attack for saying 'why should she have to hide her gender?' -  because it's irrelevant.  Look, I didn't choose a "IMAREPUBLICAN" user name here either, think for a second about why - yet I don't bother asserting that I have some sort of 'right' to do so.)</p><p>I don't approve of arrested-development retards trolling women but I'm also getting sick of us trying to legislate away stupidity.</p><p>If women want to code for FOSS, great.  If the basement-dwelling codegeeks scare them off, I think the planet will continue to turn and FOSS will lose out on some code contributors, as well as some validity as those who are driven away feed the rumormill about why they choose not to participate.</p><p>That said, and probably many too many words later, I frankly don't care.  Do I (or by extension, you the reader) REALLY think a single piece of code's utility/application has ever in the history of mankind, been decided by the openness of it's code-generating-community to outsiders?  Particularly something as already marginal as FOSS?</p><p>Even for navel-gazing nerdcakes, that's getting pretty damn obscure.  To assert it's so relevant that it's some sort of controversy is laughable.  Angels on a pin (of indeterminate gender OF COURSE).</p><p>Is it just me, or do ardent feminists really seem like people who not only see, but LOOK for their particular 'flavor' of problem everywhere?  Sure, they'd turn that on it's head and say that, ipso facto, sexism (against women) is EVERYWHERE.  Um, ya.  To me that's just a symptom of some sort of religious obsessiveness that makes my Born Again friends equally obnoxious, seeing God everywhere as well.  Both take a practically theological level of certainty that crosses well into circularity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" But the real flood of emotion comes from the anti-feminists and the average men who would like to deny the importance of feminist issues in FOSS .
" They " deny " the importance ?
HOW DARE THEY ? !
! Does n't that statement beg an enormous question - if feminist 'issues ' have an inherent importance in FOSS at all ? Flame me if you want , but to me the answer 's simply : no.Pardon me , but it 's SOFTWARE .
And specifically , we 're not even talking about actual coding , this is about the paradigm of coding software as Free Open Source .
Oh noes , the forums on FOSS have some mouth-breathers who pop wood at the idea there might be a woman reading the text .
Hello ? Who cares ?
If Nancy Codemistress feels it 's so important to identify her gender there , she can take what she gets .
If it offends her sensibilities , then perhaps she should log in as Dogbert next time ?
( And for those who are about to attack for saying 'why should she have to hide her gender ?
' - because it 's irrelevant .
Look , I did n't choose a " IMAREPUBLICAN " user name here either , think for a second about why - yet I do n't bother asserting that I have some sort of 'right ' to do so .
) I do n't approve of arrested-development retards trolling women but I 'm also getting sick of us trying to legislate away stupidity.If women want to code for FOSS , great .
If the basement-dwelling codegeeks scare them off , I think the planet will continue to turn and FOSS will lose out on some code contributors , as well as some validity as those who are driven away feed the rumormill about why they choose not to participate.That said , and probably many too many words later , I frankly do n't care .
Do I ( or by extension , you the reader ) REALLY think a single piece of code 's utility/application has ever in the history of mankind , been decided by the openness of it 's code-generating-community to outsiders ?
Particularly something as already marginal as FOSS ? Even for navel-gazing nerdcakes , that 's getting pretty damn obscure .
To assert it 's so relevant that it 's some sort of controversy is laughable .
Angels on a pin ( of indeterminate gender OF COURSE ) .Is it just me , or do ardent feminists really seem like people who not only see , but LOOK for their particular 'flavor ' of problem everywhere ?
Sure , they 'd turn that on it 's head and say that , ipso facto , sexism ( against women ) is EVERYWHERE .
Um , ya .
To me that 's just a symptom of some sort of religious obsessiveness that makes my Born Again friends equally obnoxious , seeing God everywhere as well .
Both take a practically theological level of certainty that crosses well into circularity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"But the real flood of emotion comes from the anti-feminists and the average men who would like to deny the importance of feminist issues in FOSS.
"They "deny" the importance?
HOW DARE THEY?!
!Doesn't that statement beg an enormous question - if feminist 'issues' have an inherent importance in FOSS at all?Flame me if you want, but to me the answer's simply: no.Pardon me, but it's SOFTWARE.
And specifically, we're not even talking about actual coding, this is about the paradigm of coding software as Free Open Source.
Oh noes, the forums on FOSS have some mouth-breathers who pop wood at the idea there might be a woman reading the text.
Hello?  Who cares?
If Nancy Codemistress feels it's so important to identify her gender there, she can take what she gets.
If it offends her sensibilities, then perhaps she should log in as Dogbert next time?
(And for those who are about to attack for saying 'why should she have to hide her gender?
' -  because it's irrelevant.
Look, I didn't choose a "IMAREPUBLICAN" user name here either, think for a second about why - yet I don't bother asserting that I have some sort of 'right' to do so.
)I don't approve of arrested-development retards trolling women but I'm also getting sick of us trying to legislate away stupidity.If women want to code for FOSS, great.
If the basement-dwelling codegeeks scare them off, I think the planet will continue to turn and FOSS will lose out on some code contributors, as well as some validity as those who are driven away feed the rumormill about why they choose not to participate.That said, and probably many too many words later, I frankly don't care.
Do I (or by extension, you the reader) REALLY think a single piece of code's utility/application has ever in the history of mankind, been decided by the openness of it's code-generating-community to outsiders?
Particularly something as already marginal as FOSS?Even for navel-gazing nerdcakes, that's getting pretty damn obscure.
To assert it's so relevant that it's some sort of controversy is laughable.
Angels on a pin (of indeterminate gender OF COURSE).Is it just me, or do ardent feminists really seem like people who not only see, but LOOK for their particular 'flavor' of problem everywhere?
Sure, they'd turn that on it's head and say that, ipso facto, sexism (against women) is EVERYWHERE.
Um, ya.
To me that's just a symptom of some sort of religious obsessiveness that makes my Born Again friends equally obnoxious, seeing God everywhere as well.
Both take a practically theological level of certainty that crosses well into circularity.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722679</id>
	<title>Denying the Importance</title>
	<author>vga\_init</author>
	<datestamp>1255378380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>"...the average men who would like to deny the importance of feminist issues in FOSS."</i></p><p>I'd like to defend the stance of denying the importance of feminist issues in FOSS.  My point is very simple: FOSS is about software.  What's important is the software.  Code talks.  Nobody cares if you're young, old, black, white, gay, straight, male, female, transsexual, communist, capitalist, or from the moon, and you're wrong for trying to push any of these issues to the forefront of FOSS politics.  Frankly it's not anyone's business what you are; just write the code and put it out there.  They won't accept you in their project?  Fork it.  They won't host your code?  Host it yourself.  If the code is good, people will use it.  Projects that reject significant contributions from some group will not succeed in the end due to the natural flow of the system.</p><p>FOSS is not a unilateral organization in which you can dictate policies of nondiscrimination and inclusiveness or preach to people about sociopolitical issues.  FOSS itself is inherently inclusive and nondiscriminatory, so what is there to complain about?  FOSS is a free society; associate with whom you want or don't want.  Think Mark Shuttleworth is a jerkface?  Use Fedora.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...the average men who would like to deny the importance of feminist issues in FOSS .
" I 'd like to defend the stance of denying the importance of feminist issues in FOSS .
My point is very simple : FOSS is about software .
What 's important is the software .
Code talks .
Nobody cares if you 're young , old , black , white , gay , straight , male , female , transsexual , communist , capitalist , or from the moon , and you 're wrong for trying to push any of these issues to the forefront of FOSS politics .
Frankly it 's not anyone 's business what you are ; just write the code and put it out there .
They wo n't accept you in their project ?
Fork it .
They wo n't host your code ?
Host it yourself .
If the code is good , people will use it .
Projects that reject significant contributions from some group will not succeed in the end due to the natural flow of the system.FOSS is not a unilateral organization in which you can dictate policies of nondiscrimination and inclusiveness or preach to people about sociopolitical issues .
FOSS itself is inherently inclusive and nondiscriminatory , so what is there to complain about ?
FOSS is a free society ; associate with whom you want or do n't want .
Think Mark Shuttleworth is a jerkface ?
Use Fedora .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...the average men who would like to deny the importance of feminist issues in FOSS.
"I'd like to defend the stance of denying the importance of feminist issues in FOSS.
My point is very simple: FOSS is about software.
What's important is the software.
Code talks.
Nobody cares if you're young, old, black, white, gay, straight, male, female, transsexual, communist, capitalist, or from the moon, and you're wrong for trying to push any of these issues to the forefront of FOSS politics.
Frankly it's not anyone's business what you are; just write the code and put it out there.
They won't accept you in their project?
Fork it.
They won't host your code?
Host it yourself.
If the code is good, people will use it.
Projects that reject significant contributions from some group will not succeed in the end due to the natural flow of the system.FOSS is not a unilateral organization in which you can dictate policies of nondiscrimination and inclusiveness or preach to people about sociopolitical issues.
FOSS itself is inherently inclusive and nondiscriminatory, so what is there to complain about?
FOSS is a free society; associate with whom you want or don't want.
Think Mark Shuttleworth is a jerkface?
Use Fedora.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721737</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Virak</author>
	<datestamp>1255374600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ah, that incident. I love that, because it clearly shows exactly which side the problem is on. See <a href="http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com/2009/07/emailing-richard-stallman.html" title="blogspot.com">this</a> [blogspot.com] for the finer details. Most importantly is this part, from from Stallman himself:</p><blockquote><div><p>The cult of the Virgin of Emacs is simply intended as a joke about the cult of the Virgin Mary. I assure anyone who perceived derogatory meanings in it that I did not intend them.</p></div></blockquote><p>So what really happened is Stallman made a (admittedly unfunny) joke about religion, and even after he calmly and maturely explained their error to them, whiny 'feminist' idiots continued to take it out of context and act like it was evidence that the leader of the free software movement is some evil rape advocate, when he is, at most, sorely lacking in social skills.</p><p>The problem with feminism these days is that it is far too much like a religion. There's the vast majority who are just in it to fit in with other people like them or because that's how they've been raised, who will put up a bit of obligatory moral outrage when they have to but not really do anything of note. There's the minority that's absolutely fucking batshit insane who are worked into a righteous fury over most of modern society, and will do things of note, but you'll certainly wish they didn't. And the crumbs that are left over constitute the bit that are actually good people and have taken from their belief system more than just hatred and disgust at the world.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah , that incident .
I love that , because it clearly shows exactly which side the problem is on .
See this [ blogspot.com ] for the finer details .
Most importantly is this part , from from Stallman himself : The cult of the Virgin of Emacs is simply intended as a joke about the cult of the Virgin Mary .
I assure anyone who perceived derogatory meanings in it that I did not intend them.So what really happened is Stallman made a ( admittedly unfunny ) joke about religion , and even after he calmly and maturely explained their error to them , whiny 'feminist ' idiots continued to take it out of context and act like it was evidence that the leader of the free software movement is some evil rape advocate , when he is , at most , sorely lacking in social skills.The problem with feminism these days is that it is far too much like a religion .
There 's the vast majority who are just in it to fit in with other people like them or because that 's how they 've been raised , who will put up a bit of obligatory moral outrage when they have to but not really do anything of note .
There 's the minority that 's absolutely fucking batshit insane who are worked into a righteous fury over most of modern society , and will do things of note , but you 'll certainly wish they did n't .
And the crumbs that are left over constitute the bit that are actually good people and have taken from their belief system more than just hatred and disgust at the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah, that incident.
I love that, because it clearly shows exactly which side the problem is on.
See this [blogspot.com] for the finer details.
Most importantly is this part, from from Stallman himself:The cult of the Virgin of Emacs is simply intended as a joke about the cult of the Virgin Mary.
I assure anyone who perceived derogatory meanings in it that I did not intend them.So what really happened is Stallman made a (admittedly unfunny) joke about religion, and even after he calmly and maturely explained their error to them, whiny 'feminist' idiots continued to take it out of context and act like it was evidence that the leader of the free software movement is some evil rape advocate, when he is, at most, sorely lacking in social skills.The problem with feminism these days is that it is far too much like a religion.
There's the vast majority who are just in it to fit in with other people like them or because that's how they've been raised, who will put up a bit of obligatory moral outrage when they have to but not really do anything of note.
There's the minority that's absolutely fucking batshit insane who are worked into a righteous fury over most of modern society, and will do things of note, but you'll certainly wish they didn't.
And the crumbs that are left over constitute the bit that are actually good people and have taken from their belief system more than just hatred and disgust at the world.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720775</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29729513</id>
	<title>Trying to fight alleged sexism with real sexism</title>
	<author>piotru</author>
	<datestamp>1255426080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"On September 19th, the GNOME Foundation and the Free Software Foundation will host a mini-summit on how to increase women's participation in the free and open source software (FOSS) communities."</p><p>Not "increase talented developer participation", but "increase women's participation".</p><p>THIS AGENDA IS SEXIST. The Gnome Foundation's meeting agenda was to introduce sexism to FOSS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" On September 19th , the GNOME Foundation and the Free Software Foundation will host a mini-summit on how to increase women 's participation in the free and open source software ( FOSS ) communities .
" Not " increase talented developer participation " , but " increase women 's participation " .THIS AGENDA IS SEXIST .
The Gnome Foundation 's meeting agenda was to introduce sexism to FOSS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"On September 19th, the GNOME Foundation and the Free Software Foundation will host a mini-summit on how to increase women's participation in the free and open source software (FOSS) communities.
"Not "increase talented developer participation", but "increase women's participation".THIS AGENDA IS SEXIST.
The Gnome Foundation's meeting agenda was to introduce sexism to FOSS.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724533</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255342860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No money, no girls?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-p</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No money , no girls ?
; -p</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No money, no girls?
;-p</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721277</id>
	<title>It's indeed pervasive in society</title>
	<author>RogerWilco</author>
	<datestamp>1255373100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've read the article (yeah sue me), and I really liked this link: <a href="http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO.html" title="faqs.org">http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO.html</a> [faqs.org]<br>If anything just read the bit "1.2. What problem? Sexism is dead!"<br>If you don't see what the problem is, and just think the two guys are making a funny comment, then you're probably oblivious to a lot of sexism going on in the world.</p><p>Once you open your eyes, you'll see that there is a lot of sexism (and racism) in the world still. Some of it so ingrained that even some women don't notice it, especially if they grew up with it.</p><p>It's a really hard thing to see part your own culture and put things in perspective.</p><p>I think the article makes a good point that often people don't have bad intentions, and get defensive when accused. I do think that there still is a lot of unintentional sexism in our society.</p><p>It's as simple as assuming the male is the person in charge when meeting a man and a woman in a business environment, like for example a job interview.<br>It's assuming the girl wants to be a nurse and the boy a doctor when you see some children playing with some toy hospital equipment.<br>It's simple comments like: "You silly girl", or "I wouldn't have expected that of a woman".<br>It's also that men are more expected to work late then women.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've read the article ( yeah sue me ) , and I really liked this link : http : //www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO.html [ faqs.org ] If anything just read the bit " 1.2 .
What problem ?
Sexism is dead !
" If you do n't see what the problem is , and just think the two guys are making a funny comment , then you 're probably oblivious to a lot of sexism going on in the world.Once you open your eyes , you 'll see that there is a lot of sexism ( and racism ) in the world still .
Some of it so ingrained that even some women do n't notice it , especially if they grew up with it.It 's a really hard thing to see part your own culture and put things in perspective.I think the article makes a good point that often people do n't have bad intentions , and get defensive when accused .
I do think that there still is a lot of unintentional sexism in our society.It 's as simple as assuming the male is the person in charge when meeting a man and a woman in a business environment , like for example a job interview.It 's assuming the girl wants to be a nurse and the boy a doctor when you see some children playing with some toy hospital equipment.It 's simple comments like : " You silly girl " , or " I would n't have expected that of a woman " .It 's also that men are more expected to work late then women .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've read the article (yeah sue me), and I really liked this link: http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO.html [faqs.org]If anything just read the bit "1.2.
What problem?
Sexism is dead!
"If you don't see what the problem is, and just think the two guys are making a funny comment, then you're probably oblivious to a lot of sexism going on in the world.Once you open your eyes, you'll see that there is a lot of sexism (and racism) in the world still.
Some of it so ingrained that even some women don't notice it, especially if they grew up with it.It's a really hard thing to see part your own culture and put things in perspective.I think the article makes a good point that often people don't have bad intentions, and get defensive when accused.
I do think that there still is a lot of unintentional sexism in our society.It's as simple as assuming the male is the person in charge when meeting a man and a woman in a business environment, like for example a job interview.It's assuming the girl wants to be a nurse and the boy a doctor when you see some children playing with some toy hospital equipment.It's simple comments like: "You silly girl", or "I wouldn't have expected that of a woman".It's also that men are more expected to work late then women.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721961</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>vadim\_t</author>
	<datestamp>1255375380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>RMS is just... weird.</p><p>I mean he's seriously odd in RL. It's immediately obvious even at short conferences.</p><p>I don't think he's as much sexist as completely tactless and out of touch with the way you're supposed to behave in public, because he's got an overall very strange way of behaving that pretty much anybody, of any gender is going to find bizarre.</p><p>I don't think he makes a good example of sexism because that one incident is just a tiny part of his weirdness. It's like including somebody with a bad case of autism in a list of very shy people. Not only that's not even half of his problems, but the root issue is probably something entirely different.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>RMS is just... weird.I mean he 's seriously odd in RL .
It 's immediately obvious even at short conferences.I do n't think he 's as much sexist as completely tactless and out of touch with the way you 're supposed to behave in public , because he 's got an overall very strange way of behaving that pretty much anybody , of any gender is going to find bizarre.I do n't think he makes a good example of sexism because that one incident is just a tiny part of his weirdness .
It 's like including somebody with a bad case of autism in a list of very shy people .
Not only that 's not even half of his problems , but the root issue is probably something entirely different .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RMS is just... weird.I mean he's seriously odd in RL.
It's immediately obvious even at short conferences.I don't think he's as much sexist as completely tactless and out of touch with the way you're supposed to behave in public, because he's got an overall very strange way of behaving that pretty much anybody, of any gender is going to find bizarre.I don't think he makes a good example of sexism because that one incident is just a tiny part of his weirdness.
It's like including somebody with a bad case of autism in a list of very shy people.
Not only that's not even half of his problems, but the root issue is probably something entirely different.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720775</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721537</id>
	<title>Of mountains and molehills ...</title>
	<author>quietwalker</author>
	<datestamp>1255373940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rather than typing, "Really?" with ever increasing levels of bold and italics, I'll try to address this in a more structured, rational way.  Forgive me if this is too long for some, but there were many points made by the article author which need discussion or refutation.</p><p>First, and somewhat most importantly, anti-female sexism in FOSS.  The entirety of this claim rests on pure statistics: a small percent of FOSS contributors are female, in an unreferenced study, with purported validity due to opinion polls that mirror it's results somewhat.  Let's just assume that the statistics are correct, and low.  The author references this in a separate article he wrote.</p><p>This statistic does not indicate that there are either active or passive pressures on females to avoid this self-declared membership.  This statistic does not provide insight to the reason why it is so, or suggest rationale to explain it.  By itself, it is a fact and further study would be required to determine the cause.   Oddly, I cannot actually find any studies that would suggest that, merely the leap from statistic to unsupported assumption.  It seems that this is a perfectly valid, unquestioned mechanism, though I can't see how any individual would rationally support it.  Any hypothesizing on my part about what people used to determine sexism from what appears to be a single statistic is therefore pointless - I'd could spend all my time tilting at windmills trying to refute the unvoiced assumption.</p><p>Second, much ado has been made about Richard Stallman's recent speech, indicating two separate items;<br>- First, that Stallman is a representative who embodies as a whole - beliefs, motivation, goals - the entirety of those who declare themselves part of the FOSS community.<br>- Second, that Stallman is sexist.<br>
  Therefore, the claim goes, all of FOSS is sexist.</p><p>I'll ignore dealing with the first. Obviously it's a fallacy not worth further consideration.  Beyond that the text of his 'sexist' speech was;<br>"And we also have the cult of the virgin of Emacs. The virgin of Emacs is any female who has not yet learned how to use Emacs. And in the church of Emacs we believe that taking her Emacs virginity away is a blessed act."</p><p>I'm not going to simply leave you, the reader, to interpret that as you wish.  This is one of Stallman's reoccurring phrases, making a parody comparison of the 'Cult of the Virgin Mary,' to operating Emacs in an intended humorous way.  Apparently the gender specific is random, alternating between male, female, and on occasion being left out entirely.  His meaning was simply parody.  To interpret any other way is to ignore the meaning and the intent and requires a listener to deliberately inject their own personal views and interpretations upon that of the speaker.</p><p>As a comparison, consider the phrase, "These are black days indeed." We know the speaker is discussing troubling times: he is not intending to say that people who's skins have a dark pigment are associated with trouble, and therefore it is a racist construct.  It takes just such a leap to consider that text sexist.</p><p>Next we have a common circular argument construct I see used far too often, by individuals who do not even realize the absurdity of their suggestions.  The author indicates that questioning if the problem exists indicates that you are a contributor of the problem.  In this, the implicit assumption is made:  There is a problem, and to even question it places you in the opposing camp.  He even cites correspondence with just such an individual as 'proof' that proves the assumption.  We see this quite often with other arguments, but it is exceptionally popular with minority political issues;  [you] are guilty of brand-x discrimination.  Your denial of your guilt/suggestion that brand-x discrimination does not exist proves that brand-x discrimination exists and that you, being blind to it, are guilty of it.</p><p>It is clear this is not a rational argument.</p><p>I'll wrap this up with one a few statements regarding the</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rather than typing , " Really ?
" with ever increasing levels of bold and italics , I 'll try to address this in a more structured , rational way .
Forgive me if this is too long for some , but there were many points made by the article author which need discussion or refutation.First , and somewhat most importantly , anti-female sexism in FOSS .
The entirety of this claim rests on pure statistics : a small percent of FOSS contributors are female , in an unreferenced study , with purported validity due to opinion polls that mirror it 's results somewhat .
Let 's just assume that the statistics are correct , and low .
The author references this in a separate article he wrote.This statistic does not indicate that there are either active or passive pressures on females to avoid this self-declared membership .
This statistic does not provide insight to the reason why it is so , or suggest rationale to explain it .
By itself , it is a fact and further study would be required to determine the cause .
Oddly , I can not actually find any studies that would suggest that , merely the leap from statistic to unsupported assumption .
It seems that this is a perfectly valid , unquestioned mechanism , though I ca n't see how any individual would rationally support it .
Any hypothesizing on my part about what people used to determine sexism from what appears to be a single statistic is therefore pointless - I 'd could spend all my time tilting at windmills trying to refute the unvoiced assumption.Second , much ado has been made about Richard Stallman 's recent speech , indicating two separate items ; - First , that Stallman is a representative who embodies as a whole - beliefs , motivation , goals - the entirety of those who declare themselves part of the FOSS community.- Second , that Stallman is sexist .
Therefore , the claim goes , all of FOSS is sexist.I 'll ignore dealing with the first .
Obviously it 's a fallacy not worth further consideration .
Beyond that the text of his 'sexist ' speech was ; " And we also have the cult of the virgin of Emacs .
The virgin of Emacs is any female who has not yet learned how to use Emacs .
And in the church of Emacs we believe that taking her Emacs virginity away is a blessed act .
" I 'm not going to simply leave you , the reader , to interpret that as you wish .
This is one of Stallman 's reoccurring phrases , making a parody comparison of the 'Cult of the Virgin Mary, ' to operating Emacs in an intended humorous way .
Apparently the gender specific is random , alternating between male , female , and on occasion being left out entirely .
His meaning was simply parody .
To interpret any other way is to ignore the meaning and the intent and requires a listener to deliberately inject their own personal views and interpretations upon that of the speaker.As a comparison , consider the phrase , " These are black days indeed .
" We know the speaker is discussing troubling times : he is not intending to say that people who 's skins have a dark pigment are associated with trouble , and therefore it is a racist construct .
It takes just such a leap to consider that text sexist.Next we have a common circular argument construct I see used far too often , by individuals who do not even realize the absurdity of their suggestions .
The author indicates that questioning if the problem exists indicates that you are a contributor of the problem .
In this , the implicit assumption is made : There is a problem , and to even question it places you in the opposing camp .
He even cites correspondence with just such an individual as 'proof ' that proves the assumption .
We see this quite often with other arguments , but it is exceptionally popular with minority political issues ; [ you ] are guilty of brand-x discrimination .
Your denial of your guilt/suggestion that brand-x discrimination does not exist proves that brand-x discrimination exists and that you , being blind to it , are guilty of it.It is clear this is not a rational argument.I 'll wrap this up with one a few statements regarding the</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rather than typing, "Really?
" with ever increasing levels of bold and italics, I'll try to address this in a more structured, rational way.
Forgive me if this is too long for some, but there were many points made by the article author which need discussion or refutation.First, and somewhat most importantly, anti-female sexism in FOSS.
The entirety of this claim rests on pure statistics: a small percent of FOSS contributors are female, in an unreferenced study, with purported validity due to opinion polls that mirror it's results somewhat.
Let's just assume that the statistics are correct, and low.
The author references this in a separate article he wrote.This statistic does not indicate that there are either active or passive pressures on females to avoid this self-declared membership.
This statistic does not provide insight to the reason why it is so, or suggest rationale to explain it.
By itself, it is a fact and further study would be required to determine the cause.
Oddly, I cannot actually find any studies that would suggest that, merely the leap from statistic to unsupported assumption.
It seems that this is a perfectly valid, unquestioned mechanism, though I can't see how any individual would rationally support it.
Any hypothesizing on my part about what people used to determine sexism from what appears to be a single statistic is therefore pointless - I'd could spend all my time tilting at windmills trying to refute the unvoiced assumption.Second, much ado has been made about Richard Stallman's recent speech, indicating two separate items;- First, that Stallman is a representative who embodies as a whole - beliefs, motivation, goals - the entirety of those who declare themselves part of the FOSS community.- Second, that Stallman is sexist.
Therefore, the claim goes, all of FOSS is sexist.I'll ignore dealing with the first.
Obviously it's a fallacy not worth further consideration.
Beyond that the text of his 'sexist' speech was;"And we also have the cult of the virgin of Emacs.
The virgin of Emacs is any female who has not yet learned how to use Emacs.
And in the church of Emacs we believe that taking her Emacs virginity away is a blessed act.
"I'm not going to simply leave you, the reader, to interpret that as you wish.
This is one of Stallman's reoccurring phrases, making a parody comparison of the 'Cult of the Virgin Mary,' to operating Emacs in an intended humorous way.
Apparently the gender specific is random, alternating between male, female, and on occasion being left out entirely.
His meaning was simply parody.
To interpret any other way is to ignore the meaning and the intent and requires a listener to deliberately inject their own personal views and interpretations upon that of the speaker.As a comparison, consider the phrase, "These are black days indeed.
" We know the speaker is discussing troubling times: he is not intending to say that people who's skins have a dark pigment are associated with trouble, and therefore it is a racist construct.
It takes just such a leap to consider that text sexist.Next we have a common circular argument construct I see used far too often, by individuals who do not even realize the absurdity of their suggestions.
The author indicates that questioning if the problem exists indicates that you are a contributor of the problem.
In this, the implicit assumption is made:  There is a problem, and to even question it places you in the opposing camp.
He even cites correspondence with just such an individual as 'proof' that proves the assumption.
We see this quite often with other arguments, but it is exceptionally popular with minority political issues;  [you] are guilty of brand-x discrimination.
Your denial of your guilt/suggestion that brand-x discrimination does not exist proves that brand-x discrimination exists and that you, being blind to it, are guilty of it.It is clear this is not a rational argument.I'll wrap this up with one a few statements regarding the</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722247</id>
	<title>Re:reports of ire and denial met with ire and deni</title>
	<author>bnenning</author>
	<datestamp>1255376580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's funny how people who are allegedly against stereotypes and bigotry have no problem condemning an entire group because of the moronic actions of a small minority.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's funny how people who are allegedly against stereotypes and bigotry have no problem condemning an entire group because of the moronic actions of a small minority .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's funny how people who are allegedly against stereotypes and bigotry have no problem condemning an entire group because of the moronic actions of a small minority.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720955</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29731731</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255448280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah. It makes me think that female programmers are largely in it for the money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah .
It makes me think that female programmers are largely in it for the money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah.
It makes me think that female programmers are largely in it for the money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724649</id>
	<title>Troll Really?</title>
	<author>BJ\_Covert\_Action</author>
	<datestamp>1255343280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmmm, I don't understand why this post was modded Troll. I guess it has to do with it being tossed up by AC, but it doesn't seem particularly inflammatory or abusive. I mean, it's an opinion not based on fact, sure, so maybe an offtopic mod is in order, but troll, really?
<br> <br>
Ah well, just another day on slashdot I spose...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmmm , I do n't understand why this post was modded Troll .
I guess it has to do with it being tossed up by AC , but it does n't seem particularly inflammatory or abusive .
I mean , it 's an opinion not based on fact , sure , so maybe an offtopic mod is in order , but troll , really ?
Ah well , just another day on slashdot I spose.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmmm, I don't understand why this post was modded Troll.
I guess it has to do with it being tossed up by AC, but it doesn't seem particularly inflammatory or abusive.
I mean, it's an opinion not based on fact, sure, so maybe an offtopic mod is in order, but troll, really?
Ah well, just another day on slashdot I spose...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720463</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721615</id>
	<title>Idiots abound</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255374180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm always surprised how feminist arguments turn a vast majority of men into raving idiots. There is a huge inequality between the sexes, just check any wage comparisons.</p><p>Constant sexual references are only a normal thing in same sex groups or amongst close friends. Many foss blogs, mailing lists, fora contain shitloads of sexual references. This naturally repels women, especially as they know that the likely hood that the poster is a slimy, ugly, creepy nerd is quite large.</p><p>---<br>Man</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm always surprised how feminist arguments turn a vast majority of men into raving idiots .
There is a huge inequality between the sexes , just check any wage comparisons.Constant sexual references are only a normal thing in same sex groups or amongst close friends .
Many foss blogs , mailing lists , fora contain shitloads of sexual references .
This naturally repels women , especially as they know that the likely hood that the poster is a slimy , ugly , creepy nerd is quite large.---Man</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm always surprised how feminist arguments turn a vast majority of men into raving idiots.
There is a huge inequality between the sexes, just check any wage comparisons.Constant sexual references are only a normal thing in same sex groups or amongst close friends.
Many foss blogs, mailing lists, fora contain shitloads of sexual references.
This naturally repels women, especially as they know that the likely hood that the poster is a slimy, ugly, creepy nerd is quite large.---Man</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723579</id>
	<title>Re:let me get this straight</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255339200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>In other words, women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.</p></div></blockquote><p>Because women don't volunteer their time for FOSS development, men are sexist?  Sorry, I just don't follow that logic.
Women don't volunteer their time for FOSS development, because men are sexist.
FTFY
</p><blockquote><div><p>Because I took a feminist stance in public, I have been abused in every way possible -- being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, homosexual, and even a betrayer of the community.</p></div></blockquote><p>Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?  Great going, Bruce: show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group.</p></div><p>Yeah, I mean that's so GAY, amiright?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In other words , women 's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.Because women do n't volunteer their time for FOSS development , men are sexist ?
Sorry , I just do n't follow that logic .
Women do n't volunteer their time for FOSS development , because men are sexist .
FTFY Because I took a feminist stance in public , I have been abused in every way possible -- being called irrelevant , a saboteur , coward , homosexual , and even a betrayer of the community.Being called a " homosexual " is " abuse " ?
Great going , Bruce : show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group.Yeah , I mean that 's so GAY , amiright ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In other words, women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.Because women don't volunteer their time for FOSS development, men are sexist?
Sorry, I just don't follow that logic.
Women don't volunteer their time for FOSS development, because men are sexist.
FTFY
Because I took a feminist stance in public, I have been abused in every way possible -- being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, homosexual, and even a betrayer of the community.Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?
Great going, Bruce: show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group.Yeah, I mean that's so GAY, amiright?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722233</id>
	<title>Together we stand...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255376520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...divided we fall, we fall, we fall....</p><p>AS if FOSS didn't have enough actual technology related issues to deal with?! Now we have to mix in sexism?! What next? Antisemitism? Xenophobia? Anything else Microsoft can use to divert us from the real problems and issues?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...divided we fall , we fall , we fall....AS if FOSS did n't have enough actual technology related issues to deal with ? !
Now we have to mix in sexism ? !
What next ?
Antisemitism ? Xenophobia ?
Anything else Microsoft can use to divert us from the real problems and issues ?
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...divided we fall, we fall, we fall....AS if FOSS didn't have enough actual technology related issues to deal with?!
Now we have to mix in sexism?!
What next?
Antisemitism? Xenophobia?
Anything else Microsoft can use to divert us from the real problems and issues?
;-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29729721</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255430160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet,</p></div><p>Never been on 4chan, I take it?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet,Never been on 4chan , I take it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet,Never been on 4chan, I take it?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29729917</id>
	<title>What a coincidence....</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1255432800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>.... that most couples reach the same conclusion, often irrespective of the fact that the woman has better professional prospects.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.... that most couples reach the same conclusion , often irrespective of the fact that the woman has better professional prospects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.... that most couples reach the same conclusion, often irrespective of the fact that the woman has better professional prospects.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720981</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720435</id>
	<title>Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255369980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>32</p><p>Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger! If handled properly, your apeman will give years of valuable, if reluctant, service.</p><p>INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.<br>You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model. Field niggers work best in a serial configuration, i.e. chained together. Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it, and don't even think about taking that chain off, ever. Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them. This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud. House niggers work best as standalone units, but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape. At this stage, your nigger can also be given a name. Most owners use the same names over and over, since niggers become confused by too much data. Rufus, Rastus, Remus, Toby, Carslisle, Carlton, Hey-You!-Yes-you!, Yeller, Blackstar, and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger. If your nigger is a ho, it should be called Latrelle, L'Tanya, or Jemima. Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke. Pearl, Blossom, and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes. These names go straight over your nigger's head, by the way.</p><p>CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGER<br>Owing to a design error, your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords. Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - "muh dick" being the most popular. However, others make barking, yelping, yapping noises and appear to be in some pain, so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger's tongue. Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least, you won't hear it complaining anywhere near as much. Niggers have nothing interesting to say, anyway. Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons (yours, mine, and that of women, not the nigger's). This is strongly recommended, and frankly, it's a mystery why this is not done on the boat</p><p>HOUSING YOUR NIGGER.<br>Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars. Make sure, however, that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through. The rule of thumb is, four niggers per square yard of cage. So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers. You can site a nigger cage anywhere, even on soft ground. Don't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage. Niggers never invented the shovel before and they're not about to now. In any case, your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape. As long as the free food holds out, your nigger is living better than it did in Africa, so it will stay put. Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage, as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.</p><p>FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.<br>Your Nigger likes fried chicken, corn bread, and watermelon. You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly doesn't deserve it. Instead, feed it on porridge with salt, and creek water. Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields, other niggers, etc. Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat, but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day. Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer, since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives. He reports he doesn't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result. You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work, since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained. You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton. You really would. Coffee beans? Don't ask. You have no idea.</p><p>MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.<br>Niggers are very, very averse to work of any kind. The nigg</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>32Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger !
If handled properly , your apeman will give years of valuable , if reluctant , service.INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model .
Field niggers work best in a serial configuration , i.e .
chained together .
Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it , and do n't even think about taking that chain off , ever .
Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them .
This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud .
House niggers work best as standalone units , but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape .
At this stage , your nigger can also be given a name .
Most owners use the same names over and over , since niggers become confused by too much data .
Rufus , Rastus , Remus , Toby , Carslisle , Carlton , Hey-You ! -Yes-you ! , Yeller , Blackstar , and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger .
If your nigger is a ho , it should be called Latrelle , L'Tanya , or Jemima .
Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke .
Pearl , Blossom , and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes .
These names go straight over your nigger 's head , by the way.CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGEROwing to a design error , your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords .
Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - " muh dick " being the most popular .
However , others make barking , yelping , yapping noises and appear to be in some pain , so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger 's tongue .
Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least , you wo n't hear it complaining anywhere near as much .
Niggers have nothing interesting to say , anyway .
Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons ( yours , mine , and that of women , not the nigger 's ) .
This is strongly recommended , and frankly , it 's a mystery why this is not done on the boatHOUSING YOUR NIGGER.Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars .
Make sure , however , that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through .
The rule of thumb is , four niggers per square yard of cage .
So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers .
You can site a nigger cage anywhere , even on soft ground .
Do n't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage .
Niggers never invented the shovel before and they 're not about to now .
In any case , your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape .
As long as the free food holds out , your nigger is living better than it did in Africa , so it will stay put .
Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage , as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.Your Nigger likes fried chicken , corn bread , and watermelon .
You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly does n't deserve it .
Instead , feed it on porridge with salt , and creek water .
Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields , other niggers , etc .
Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat , but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day .
Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer , since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives .
He reports he does n't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result .
You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work , since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained .
You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton .
You really would .
Coffee beans ?
Do n't ask .
You have no idea.MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.Niggers are very , very averse to work of any kind .
The nigg</tokentext>
<sentencetext>32Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger!
If handled properly, your apeman will give years of valuable, if reluctant, service.INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model.
Field niggers work best in a serial configuration, i.e.
chained together.
Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it, and don't even think about taking that chain off, ever.
Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them.
This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud.
House niggers work best as standalone units, but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape.
At this stage, your nigger can also be given a name.
Most owners use the same names over and over, since niggers become confused by too much data.
Rufus, Rastus, Remus, Toby, Carslisle, Carlton, Hey-You!-Yes-you!, Yeller, Blackstar, and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger.
If your nigger is a ho, it should be called Latrelle, L'Tanya, or Jemima.
Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke.
Pearl, Blossom, and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes.
These names go straight over your nigger's head, by the way.CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGEROwing to a design error, your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords.
Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - "muh dick" being the most popular.
However, others make barking, yelping, yapping noises and appear to be in some pain, so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger's tongue.
Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least, you won't hear it complaining anywhere near as much.
Niggers have nothing interesting to say, anyway.
Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons (yours, mine, and that of women, not the nigger's).
This is strongly recommended, and frankly, it's a mystery why this is not done on the boatHOUSING YOUR NIGGER.Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars.
Make sure, however, that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through.
The rule of thumb is, four niggers per square yard of cage.
So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers.
You can site a nigger cage anywhere, even on soft ground.
Don't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage.
Niggers never invented the shovel before and they're not about to now.
In any case, your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape.
As long as the free food holds out, your nigger is living better than it did in Africa, so it will stay put.
Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage, as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.Your Nigger likes fried chicken, corn bread, and watermelon.
You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly doesn't deserve it.
Instead, feed it on porridge with salt, and creek water.
Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields, other niggers, etc.
Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat, but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day.
Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer, since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives.
He reports he doesn't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result.
You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work, since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained.
You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton.
You really would.
Coffee beans?
Don't ask.
You have no idea.MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.Niggers are very, very averse to work of any kind.
The nigg</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724211</id>
	<title>The thing about FOSS is...</title>
	<author>renfrow</author>
	<datestamp>1255341420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it's not like a game where they can take their ball home, and there's no game. You can make your OWN ball... If you can't get into a FOSS project because they object to 'cooties', then think up your OWN project. AND let them in even with THEIR 'cooties'. Heck CLONE their project and run it the way you see fit. Whoever you are.</p><p>Tom.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's not like a game where they can take their ball home , and there 's no game .
You can make your OWN ball... If you ca n't get into a FOSS project because they object to 'cooties ' , then think up your OWN project .
AND let them in even with THEIR 'cooties' .
Heck CLONE their project and run it the way you see fit .
Whoever you are.Tom .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's not like a game where they can take their ball home, and there's no game.
You can make your OWN ball... If you can't get into a FOSS project because they object to 'cooties', then think up your OWN project.
AND let them in even with THEIR 'cooties'.
Heck CLONE their project and run it the way you see fit.
Whoever you are.Tom.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720709</id>
	<title>Sexism is mostly an excuse for stupid women</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In school we had a girl that was black. That's probably not so special in the US but here in Germany the population percentage of back people is quite low so there rarely are more then 1-2 in each year.<br>She didn't have any friends, nobody really liked her. And why? Well, if you ask her it was because everyone else was racist. Of cause nobody liked her because she was black, that's why!</p><p>But then there just so happend to be another black girl who transferred from a different school a few years later. And she was popular, everyone liked her. How could that be? I thought the whole class was full of racists who didn't like the poor black girl? And now they all like the new black girl? Impossible!</p><p>The explanation is simple: Nobody in the class was racist. The other girl just happened to be stupid, ignorant and generally a giant pain in the ass. But since she was black she just blamed it on the color of her skin - that's much easier then accepting that she should maybe thinking about changing her behavior if we wants to make friends.</p><p>From what I see this seems to be a very similar case. "Raise the subject of sexism" sounds like this person just didn't get what she wanted and now is pissed and is trying to blame it on everybody else, just not herself.<br>Sad, really sad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In school we had a girl that was black .
That 's probably not so special in the US but here in Germany the population percentage of back people is quite low so there rarely are more then 1-2 in each year.She did n't have any friends , nobody really liked her .
And why ?
Well , if you ask her it was because everyone else was racist .
Of cause nobody liked her because she was black , that 's why ! But then there just so happend to be another black girl who transferred from a different school a few years later .
And she was popular , everyone liked her .
How could that be ?
I thought the whole class was full of racists who did n't like the poor black girl ?
And now they all like the new black girl ?
Impossible ! The explanation is simple : Nobody in the class was racist .
The other girl just happened to be stupid , ignorant and generally a giant pain in the ass .
But since she was black she just blamed it on the color of her skin - that 's much easier then accepting that she should maybe thinking about changing her behavior if we wants to make friends.From what I see this seems to be a very similar case .
" Raise the subject of sexism " sounds like this person just did n't get what she wanted and now is pissed and is trying to blame it on everybody else , just not herself.Sad , really sad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In school we had a girl that was black.
That's probably not so special in the US but here in Germany the population percentage of back people is quite low so there rarely are more then 1-2 in each year.She didn't have any friends, nobody really liked her.
And why?
Well, if you ask her it was because everyone else was racist.
Of cause nobody liked her because she was black, that's why!But then there just so happend to be another black girl who transferred from a different school a few years later.
And she was popular, everyone liked her.
How could that be?
I thought the whole class was full of racists who didn't like the poor black girl?
And now they all like the new black girl?
Impossible!The explanation is simple: Nobody in the class was racist.
The other girl just happened to be stupid, ignorant and generally a giant pain in the ass.
But since she was black she just blamed it on the color of her skin - that's much easier then accepting that she should maybe thinking about changing her behavior if we wants to make friends.From what I see this seems to be a very similar case.
"Raise the subject of sexism" sounds like this person just didn't get what she wanted and now is pissed and is trying to blame it on everybody else, just not herself.Sad, really sad.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721047</id>
	<title>I call bogus</title>
	<author>93 Escort Wagon</author>
	<datestamp>1255372440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... many women in the community<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>I was reading the summary, trying to keep open minded, and you almost had me - until I saw this reference to "many women". MANY women? I've been to LUG meetings. You're lucky to see <i>one</i> woman.</p><p>Note by LUG I mean Linux Users Group, not Lesbians Until Graduation - meetings of the latter would likely attract more women than I've observed in the former.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... many women in the community ...I was reading the summary , trying to keep open minded , and you almost had me - until I saw this reference to " many women " .
MANY women ?
I 've been to LUG meetings .
You 're lucky to see one woman.Note by LUG I mean Linux Users Group , not Lesbians Until Graduation - meetings of the latter would likely attract more women than I 've observed in the former .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ... many women in the community ...I was reading the summary, trying to keep open minded, and you almost had me - until I saw this reference to "many women".
MANY women?
I've been to LUG meetings.
You're lucky to see one woman.Note by LUG I mean Linux Users Group, not Lesbians Until Graduation - meetings of the latter would likely attract more women than I've observed in the former.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727491</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>agnosticnixie</author>
	<datestamp>1255359480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, that's only true with --creepy stalkers with no self-esteem-- nice guys</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , that 's only true with --creepy stalkers with no self-esteem-- nice guys</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, that's only true with --creepy stalkers with no self-esteem-- nice guys</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722729</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723187</id>
	<title>Obvious solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255380660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lock all the sexists and feminists in a room together until they either fuck each other or kill each other.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lock all the sexists and feminists in a room together until they either fuck each other or kill each other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lock all the sexists and feminists in a room together until they either fuck each other or kill each other.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723173</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>Dr. Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1255380600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not sexist, but if you're working with her, she's a captive audience.

</p><p>It changes the dynamic a LOT.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not sexist , but if you 're working with her , she 's a captive audience .
It changes the dynamic a LOT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not sexist, but if you're working with her, she's a captive audience.
It changes the dynamic a LOT.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720775</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Serious Callers Only</author>
	<datestamp>1255371360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>....when the sex of the contributor is more often than not completely unknown?</p></div><p>Sexism does not have to be directed at a particular person. For example RMS makes silly jokes about female emacs virgins:</p><p><a href="http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/EMACS\_virgins\_joke" title="wikia.com" rel="nofollow">http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/EMACS\_virgins\_joke</a> [wikia.com]</p><p>which are quite annoying if you happen to be female and don't care to have your sexuality linked to whether you use a text editor in the minds of the men sitting around you in the audience. Or, as another example, this story is tagged 'sendthemtothekitchen'. This sort of juvenile joke contributes to an atmosphere in which women do not feel welcome.</p><p>I suspect there's more going on than sexism, given the huge gender imbalance in people even starting to study IT, but the sexism rife in the IT industry certainly doesn't help.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>....when the sex of the contributor is more often than not completely unknown ? Sexism does not have to be directed at a particular person .
For example RMS makes silly jokes about female emacs virgins : http : //geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/EMACS \ _virgins \ _joke [ wikia.com ] which are quite annoying if you happen to be female and do n't care to have your sexuality linked to whether you use a text editor in the minds of the men sitting around you in the audience .
Or , as another example , this story is tagged 'sendthemtothekitchen' .
This sort of juvenile joke contributes to an atmosphere in which women do not feel welcome.I suspect there 's more going on than sexism , given the huge gender imbalance in people even starting to study IT , but the sexism rife in the IT industry certainly does n't help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ....when the sex of the contributor is more often than not completely unknown?Sexism does not have to be directed at a particular person.
For example RMS makes silly jokes about female emacs virgins:http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/EMACS\_virgins\_joke [wikia.com]which are quite annoying if you happen to be female and don't care to have your sexuality linked to whether you use a text editor in the minds of the men sitting around you in the audience.
Or, as another example, this story is tagged 'sendthemtothekitchen'.
This sort of juvenile joke contributes to an atmosphere in which women do not feel welcome.I suspect there's more going on than sexism, given the huge gender imbalance in people even starting to study IT, but the sexism rife in the IT industry certainly doesn't help.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721741</id>
	<title>Textbook definition</title>
	<author>Roger W Moore</author>
	<datestamp>1255374600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>He mentions geeks asking peer women out for a date as an example for being sexistic.</p></div><p>
The textbook definition of sexism is discrimination on the grounds of gender. So, unless you ask out men as well, technically you are being sexist.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He mentions geeks asking peer women out for a date as an example for being sexistic .
The textbook definition of sexism is discrimination on the grounds of gender .
So , unless you ask out men as well , technically you are being sexist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He mentions geeks asking peer women out for a date as an example for being sexistic.
The textbook definition of sexism is discrimination on the grounds of gender.
So, unless you ask out men as well, technically you are being sexist.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721939</id>
	<title>Let's look to Shakespeare for insight</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1255375320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The boy nerds doth protest too much, methinks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The boy nerds doth protest too much , methinks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The boy nerds doth protest too much, methinks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723015</id>
	<title>Re:let me get this straight</title>
	<author>Kruemelmo</author>
	<datestamp>1255379760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Because women don't volunteer their time for FOSS development, men are sexist?</p></div><p>He didn't say that.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?</p></div><p>Yes, if the caller uses the term in an abusive context.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because women do n't volunteer their time for FOSS development , men are sexist ? He did n't say that.Being called a " homosexual " is " abuse " ? Yes , if the caller uses the term in an abusive context .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because women don't volunteer their time for FOSS development, men are sexist?He didn't say that.Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?Yes, if the caller uses the term in an abusive context.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723413</id>
	<title>Re:No, he's mistaken.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255338540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's really hard to see the bias against a group in society unless you're a member of it.  You're not going to get all the crap that flies at a group unless you're a member of it; the unwanted comments, the insults.  This applies to more problems than sexism; racism, discrimination against the poor... you name it.  And discriminating against people on the basis of something other than their willingness to work on FOSS stuff *is* a problem for FOSS.</p><p>Of course it's easy to say that "none of this is a problem" if you're not a member of a group that gets treated badly by large sections of society.</p><p>And being a Republican doesn't count; to most of the outside world American politics look absolutely insane, and people can't tell you're a republican when they see you walking down the street.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's really hard to see the bias against a group in society unless you 're a member of it .
You 're not going to get all the crap that flies at a group unless you 're a member of it ; the unwanted comments , the insults .
This applies to more problems than sexism ; racism , discrimination against the poor... you name it .
And discriminating against people on the basis of something other than their willingness to work on FOSS stuff * is * a problem for FOSS.Of course it 's easy to say that " none of this is a problem " if you 're not a member of a group that gets treated badly by large sections of society.And being a Republican does n't count ; to most of the outside world American politics look absolutely insane , and people ca n't tell you 're a republican when they see you walking down the street .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's really hard to see the bias against a group in society unless you're a member of it.
You're not going to get all the crap that flies at a group unless you're a member of it; the unwanted comments, the insults.
This applies to more problems than sexism; racism, discrimination against the poor... you name it.
And discriminating against people on the basis of something other than their willingness to work on FOSS stuff *is* a problem for FOSS.Of course it's easy to say that "none of this is a problem" if you're not a member of a group that gets treated badly by large sections of society.And being a Republican doesn't count; to most of the outside world American politics look absolutely insane, and people can't tell you're a republican when they see you walking down the street.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720895</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727121</id>
	<title>Feminazis</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255356600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First, some definitions.<br>sexism is the opposite of gender equality.<br>Any position which holds that one gender is "better" than another is by the above, a "sexist" position.</p><p>So, Feminist is Sexist, just diametrically opposed from the more socially prevalent "Masculist" position.</p><p>Meh. The poster is jumping up and down about "Sexism" whilst obviously being Sexist themselves. Is it any wonder they aren't taken seriously?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First , some definitions.sexism is the opposite of gender equality.Any position which holds that one gender is " better " than another is by the above , a " sexist " position.So , Feminist is Sexist , just diametrically opposed from the more socially prevalent " Masculist " position.Meh .
The poster is jumping up and down about " Sexism " whilst obviously being Sexist themselves .
Is it any wonder they are n't taken seriously ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, some definitions.sexism is the opposite of gender equality.Any position which holds that one gender is "better" than another is by the above, a "sexist" position.So, Feminist is Sexist, just diametrically opposed from the more socially prevalent "Masculist" position.Meh.
The poster is jumping up and down about "Sexism" whilst obviously being Sexist themselves.
Is it any wonder they aren't taken seriously?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720865</id>
	<title>Cathedral v Bazaar</title>
	<author>R2.0</author>
	<datestamp>1255371780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I will state up front that I believe there is sexism withing the FOSS movement.  However...</p><p>I actually went back and read his original article (I know - suspend my membership) and the most glaring problem with his argument is his comparison with proprietary software companies.  He bemoans that those organizations have a breat many more women, and why can't FOSS do the same?  Well, here's some clues:</p><p>1) "FOSS" is not an entity.  It is a philosophy that is practiced by a number of organizations, some of which hardly merit the term.</p><p>2) Backstopping employment of women in the proprietary software world is employment law.  Microsoft MUST employ a certain number of women or get into legal trouble.  But free software development is done largely by volunteers - very few people are being "employed".  Note that I exclude the employees that work on FOSS as part of their position.  Should they be excluded?  Probably not, but it appears the original author did so, and this is a criticism of his essay.</p><p>3) Participants in a FOSS project are largely self selected, with few obstacles or inducements other than personal interest and skill level.  In situations like this, people tend to self segregate.  That goes for race, gender, interests, whatever.  You can't compel someone to participate in a FOSS project they don't like, for whatever reason.</p><p>The author is trying to make a case for institutional racism to something that models itself on a completely different model.  The "people" who participate in FOSS projects may be sexist, and their actions are probably driving away some women who would otherwise participate.  But "institutional" solutions have a problem in that there is no "institution" involved here.</p><p>People can be boors, and crude.  If the other participants don't censure him, he'll continue.  The solution is for <i>individuals</i> to act and speak up.  If a lead developer continues to make comments about T&amp;A, and it bugs you, leave - and take a copy of the code with you!  In many ways, the ideas behind FOSS make it easier to take a personal stand - you can dissociate yourself without losing your work.  I don't know if my ideas will "solve" sexism in FOSS, but you'll feel better about yourself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I will state up front that I believe there is sexism withing the FOSS movement .
However...I actually went back and read his original article ( I know - suspend my membership ) and the most glaring problem with his argument is his comparison with proprietary software companies .
He bemoans that those organizations have a breat many more women , and why ca n't FOSS do the same ?
Well , here 's some clues : 1 ) " FOSS " is not an entity .
It is a philosophy that is practiced by a number of organizations , some of which hardly merit the term.2 ) Backstopping employment of women in the proprietary software world is employment law .
Microsoft MUST employ a certain number of women or get into legal trouble .
But free software development is done largely by volunteers - very few people are being " employed " .
Note that I exclude the employees that work on FOSS as part of their position .
Should they be excluded ?
Probably not , but it appears the original author did so , and this is a criticism of his essay.3 ) Participants in a FOSS project are largely self selected , with few obstacles or inducements other than personal interest and skill level .
In situations like this , people tend to self segregate .
That goes for race , gender , interests , whatever .
You ca n't compel someone to participate in a FOSS project they do n't like , for whatever reason.The author is trying to make a case for institutional racism to something that models itself on a completely different model .
The " people " who participate in FOSS projects may be sexist , and their actions are probably driving away some women who would otherwise participate .
But " institutional " solutions have a problem in that there is no " institution " involved here.People can be boors , and crude .
If the other participants do n't censure him , he 'll continue .
The solution is for individuals to act and speak up .
If a lead developer continues to make comments about T&amp;A , and it bugs you , leave - and take a copy of the code with you !
In many ways , the ideas behind FOSS make it easier to take a personal stand - you can dissociate yourself without losing your work .
I do n't know if my ideas will " solve " sexism in FOSS , but you 'll feel better about yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I will state up front that I believe there is sexism withing the FOSS movement.
However...I actually went back and read his original article (I know - suspend my membership) and the most glaring problem with his argument is his comparison with proprietary software companies.
He bemoans that those organizations have a breat many more women, and why can't FOSS do the same?
Well, here's some clues:1) "FOSS" is not an entity.
It is a philosophy that is practiced by a number of organizations, some of which hardly merit the term.2) Backstopping employment of women in the proprietary software world is employment law.
Microsoft MUST employ a certain number of women or get into legal trouble.
But free software development is done largely by volunteers - very few people are being "employed".
Note that I exclude the employees that work on FOSS as part of their position.
Should they be excluded?
Probably not, but it appears the original author did so, and this is a criticism of his essay.3) Participants in a FOSS project are largely self selected, with few obstacles or inducements other than personal interest and skill level.
In situations like this, people tend to self segregate.
That goes for race, gender, interests, whatever.
You can't compel someone to participate in a FOSS project they don't like, for whatever reason.The author is trying to make a case for institutional racism to something that models itself on a completely different model.
The "people" who participate in FOSS projects may be sexist, and their actions are probably driving away some women who would otherwise participate.
But "institutional" solutions have a problem in that there is no "institution" involved here.People can be boors, and crude.
If the other participants don't censure him, he'll continue.
The solution is for individuals to act and speak up.
If a lead developer continues to make comments about T&amp;A, and it bugs you, leave - and take a copy of the code with you!
In many ways, the ideas behind FOSS make it easier to take a personal stand - you can dissociate yourself without losing your work.
I don't know if my ideas will "solve" sexism in FOSS, but you'll feel better about yourself.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721843</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>(arg!)Styopa</author>
	<datestamp>1255375020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Now, isn't that by itself enough to get you thinking?"</p><p>Yeah, it makes me think that women understand better than to waste their development skills NOT GETTING PAID, and that hobby-time outside of work, they probably have better things to do than code.</p><p>Or did you mean to insinuate something else?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Now , is n't that by itself enough to get you thinking ?
" Yeah , it makes me think that women understand better than to waste their development skills NOT GETTING PAID , and that hobby-time outside of work , they probably have better things to do than code.Or did you mean to insinuate something else ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Now, isn't that by itself enough to get you thinking?
"Yeah, it makes me think that women understand better than to waste their development skills NOT GETTING PAID, and that hobby-time outside of work, they probably have better things to do than code.Or did you mean to insinuate something else?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721143</id>
	<title>Arise ye inmates of codings prison</title>
	<author>vorlich</author>
	<datestamp>1255372740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It was almost a cliche in the socialist movement in the UK in the early eighties for some of the most unreconstructed men to champion women's rights while living a private life that was not quite as pure as the driven snow with regard to women. <br>Since I don't know the author, I can't comment on that aspect of his life. However, he is guilty of grandstanding on the issues of group he is not actually part of. Laudable as this may be, I would suggest that in order to clarify the issue, the victims should come forward and bear witness. <br>You don't really see a great number of women down the pub knocking back 16 pints of lager every Friday night commenting on how Chelsea are doing and whether or not money will buy a team success but is that an example of sex based exclusion or is it because they have better things to do?</htmltext>
<tokenext>It was almost a cliche in the socialist movement in the UK in the early eighties for some of the most unreconstructed men to champion women 's rights while living a private life that was not quite as pure as the driven snow with regard to women .
Since I do n't know the author , I ca n't comment on that aspect of his life .
However , he is guilty of grandstanding on the issues of group he is not actually part of .
Laudable as this may be , I would suggest that in order to clarify the issue , the victims should come forward and bear witness .
You do n't really see a great number of women down the pub knocking back 16 pints of lager every Friday night commenting on how Chelsea are doing and whether or not money will buy a team success but is that an example of sex based exclusion or is it because they have better things to do ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was almost a cliche in the socialist movement in the UK in the early eighties for some of the most unreconstructed men to champion women's rights while living a private life that was not quite as pure as the driven snow with regard to women.
Since I don't know the author, I can't comment on that aspect of his life.
However, he is guilty of grandstanding on the issues of group he is not actually part of.
Laudable as this may be, I would suggest that in order to clarify the issue, the victims should come forward and bear witness.
You don't really see a great number of women down the pub knocking back 16 pints of lager every Friday night commenting on how Chelsea are doing and whether or not money will buy a team success but is that an example of sex based exclusion or is it because they have better things to do?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720711</id>
	<title>Some examples would be useful</title>
	<author>milgr</author>
	<datestamp>1255371120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I search the post an linked articles for concrete examples of sexism.  I found some - about 4 indirections away from slashdot.  <a href="http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO.html" title="faqs.org">http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO.html</a> [faqs.org] links to some eight year old posts that are sexist.
<p>
All of the high-tech companies that I've worked for have many more men than women.  Most of the applications for positions are from men.
</p><p>
In over 20 years in the industry, I only remember observing one sexist incident.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I search the post an linked articles for concrete examples of sexism .
I found some - about 4 indirections away from slashdot .
http : //www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO.html [ faqs.org ] links to some eight year old posts that are sexist .
All of the high-tech companies that I 've worked for have many more men than women .
Most of the applications for positions are from men .
In over 20 years in the industry , I only remember observing one sexist incident .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I search the post an linked articles for concrete examples of sexism.
I found some - about 4 indirections away from slashdot.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO.html [faqs.org] links to some eight year old posts that are sexist.
All of the high-tech companies that I've worked for have many more men than women.
Most of the applications for positions are from men.
In over 20 years in the industry, I only remember observing one sexist incident.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720955</id>
	<title>reports of ire and denial met with ire and denial</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255372080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it's funny how defensive guys get when their sexism is pointed out to them.  any woman who tries to talk about it is of course either just making excuses or is a lunatic with an agenda.  the most astonishing aspect is how uniform and predictable the slashdot response is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's funny how defensive guys get when their sexism is pointed out to them .
any woman who tries to talk about it is of course either just making excuses or is a lunatic with an agenda .
the most astonishing aspect is how uniform and predictable the slashdot response is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's funny how defensive guys get when their sexism is pointed out to them.
any woman who tries to talk about it is of course either just making excuses or is a lunatic with an agenda.
the most astonishing aspect is how uniform and predictable the slashdot response is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723251</id>
	<title>Re:Or maybe you're wrong</title>
	<author>hot soldering iron</author>
	<datestamp>1255381020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's part of the trap. It's like testing to see if you're a witch. Tie you up and drop you in the river, if you float you're a witch! She's just trying to start up a witch hunt, but unfortunately this crowd is a little smarter than the Inquisitor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's part of the trap .
It 's like testing to see if you 're a witch .
Tie you up and drop you in the river , if you float you 're a witch !
She 's just trying to start up a witch hunt , but unfortunately this crowd is a little smarter than the Inquisitor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's part of the trap.
It's like testing to see if you're a witch.
Tie you up and drop you in the river, if you float you're a witch!
She's just trying to start up a witch hunt, but unfortunately this crowd is a little smarter than the Inquisitor.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721475</id>
	<title>"homosexual" as a form of abuse?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255373700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just the idea that there are some people that use the word homosexual as a form of abuse...</p><p>And the fact that the author refers to being called homosexual as a form of abuse without inserting a caveat that he himself did not found it abusive...</p><p>Yes, there is sexism. And homophobia, that is for sure.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just the idea that there are some people that use the word homosexual as a form of abuse...And the fact that the author refers to being called homosexual as a form of abuse without inserting a caveat that he himself did not found it abusive...Yes , there is sexism .
And homophobia , that is for sure .
: (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just the idea that there are some people that use the word homosexual as a form of abuse...And the fact that the author refers to being called homosexual as a form of abuse without inserting a caveat that he himself did not found it abusive...Yes, there is sexism.
And homophobia, that is for sure.
:(</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722399</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1255377180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Consider guys in IT generally take the piss out of each other, I'm not sure why women feel they should be treated any differently. in fact, isn't that the point of equality that you're treated the same?
<br> <br>
If you prefer an environment where people aren't as humorous but instead talk about how well each other is dressed and other safe bland crap then perhaps you should look for IT jobs in places where individuality has already been neutered, like government offices, old well established companies or your kitchen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Consider guys in IT generally take the piss out of each other , I 'm not sure why women feel they should be treated any differently .
in fact , is n't that the point of equality that you 're treated the same ?
If you prefer an environment where people are n't as humorous but instead talk about how well each other is dressed and other safe bland crap then perhaps you should look for IT jobs in places where individuality has already been neutered , like government offices , old well established companies or your kitchen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Consider guys in IT generally take the piss out of each other, I'm not sure why women feel they should be treated any differently.
in fact, isn't that the point of equality that you're treated the same?
If you prefer an environment where people aren't as humorous but instead talk about how well each other is dressed and other safe bland crap then perhaps you should look for IT jobs in places where individuality has already been neutered, like government offices, old well established companies or your kitchen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720775</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29760799</id>
	<title>Re:Sexism is so pervasive we don't see it</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1255636560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>So when we are called on sexist behavior, our first reaction is to get massively defensive and deny the problem. We're not sexist! We think sexism is evil! Some of my best friends are women! Uh-huh. The problem is, the person calling you on your sexism ISN'T making it up. From her point of view, denying it just means you're as clueless as all the other men.</i></p><p>No, clueless is calling someone sexist and refusing to explain WHY you think it's sexist. There's one woman somwhere in this thread who berated a guy who was praising a woman's intelligence and courage, saying "I'd date her". IMO her remark was sexist - sexism, like racism, goes both ways. A sexist thinks his or her sex is superior to the opposite sex, and I think you'll find most feminists share the opinion that women are better than men. Wanting to date a woman because you admire her is the farthest thing from sexism there is.</p><p><i>The best thing to do is acknowledge, apologize, and try to accept that what you said or did was sexist. Even if you don't know why. Even if you think it wasn't.</i></p><p>So in other words, even if you don't know why she's pissed and she won't tell you why she's pissed and you're sure she's wrong, kiss her ass? THAT is a sexist remark, and unfortunately far too many woman have that attitude. I find it appalling.</p><p><i>And the rules, in our society, aren't fair to women.</i></p><p>The rules in our society are far more fair to woman than men. Yes, when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s it was the other way around, but equal opportunity is enshrined in law. Men are becoming second class citizens. Many women these days think it's OK to physically hit a man, or throw a drink at him. IT ISN'T.</p><p>Ms. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So when we are called on sexist behavior , our first reaction is to get massively defensive and deny the problem .
We 're not sexist !
We think sexism is evil !
Some of my best friends are women !
Uh-huh. The problem is , the person calling you on your sexism IS N'T making it up .
From her point of view , denying it just means you 're as clueless as all the other men.No , clueless is calling someone sexist and refusing to explain WHY you think it 's sexist .
There 's one woman somwhere in this thread who berated a guy who was praising a woman 's intelligence and courage , saying " I 'd date her " .
IMO her remark was sexist - sexism , like racism , goes both ways .
A sexist thinks his or her sex is superior to the opposite sex , and I think you 'll find most feminists share the opinion that women are better than men .
Wanting to date a woman because you admire her is the farthest thing from sexism there is.The best thing to do is acknowledge , apologize , and try to accept that what you said or did was sexist .
Even if you do n't know why .
Even if you think it was n't.So in other words , even if you do n't know why she 's pissed and she wo n't tell you why she 's pissed and you 're sure she 's wrong , kiss her ass ?
THAT is a sexist remark , and unfortunately far too many woman have that attitude .
I find it appalling.And the rules , in our society , are n't fair to women.The rules in our society are far more fair to woman than men .
Yes , when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s it was the other way around , but equal opportunity is enshrined in law .
Men are becoming second class citizens .
Many women these days think it 's OK to physically hit a man , or throw a drink at him .
IT IS N'T.Ms .
Pot , meet Mr. Kettle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So when we are called on sexist behavior, our first reaction is to get massively defensive and deny the problem.
We're not sexist!
We think sexism is evil!
Some of my best friends are women!
Uh-huh. The problem is, the person calling you on your sexism ISN'T making it up.
From her point of view, denying it just means you're as clueless as all the other men.No, clueless is calling someone sexist and refusing to explain WHY you think it's sexist.
There's one woman somwhere in this thread who berated a guy who was praising a woman's intelligence and courage, saying "I'd date her".
IMO her remark was sexist - sexism, like racism, goes both ways.
A sexist thinks his or her sex is superior to the opposite sex, and I think you'll find most feminists share the opinion that women are better than men.
Wanting to date a woman because you admire her is the farthest thing from sexism there is.The best thing to do is acknowledge, apologize, and try to accept that what you said or did was sexist.
Even if you don't know why.
Even if you think it wasn't.So in other words, even if you don't know why she's pissed and she won't tell you why she's pissed and you're sure she's wrong, kiss her ass?
THAT is a sexist remark, and unfortunately far too many woman have that attitude.
I find it appalling.And the rules, in our society, aren't fair to women.The rules in our society are far more fair to woman than men.
Yes, when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s it was the other way around, but equal opportunity is enshrined in law.
Men are becoming second class citizens.
Many women these days think it's OK to physically hit a man, or throw a drink at him.
IT ISN'T.Ms.
Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721589</id>
	<title>story for you ma'am</title>
	<author>YouDoNotWantToKnow</author>
	<datestamp>1255374120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.sacredfools.org/crimescene/casefiles/s2/shipoffoolsstory.htm" title="sacredfools.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.sacredfools.org/crimescene/casefiles/s2/shipoffoolsstory.htm</a> [sacredfools.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.sacredfools.org/crimescene/casefiles/s2/shipoffoolsstory.htm [ sacredfools.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.sacredfools.org/crimescene/casefiles/s2/shipoffoolsstory.htm [sacredfools.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723863</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>lordandmaker</author>
	<datestamp>1255340100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It is quite amusing to read an entire page of comments by men who think that their gender doesn't limit their perspective on this issue.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Aren't we mostly talking about things aimed at men? A group of people united entirely and only by their gender? If the way our gender impacts on our perspective isn't being taken into consideration by whoever is doing the talking, they're doing it wrong.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is quite amusing to read an entire page of comments by men who think that their gender does n't limit their perspective on this issue .
Are n't we mostly talking about things aimed at men ?
A group of people united entirely and only by their gender ?
If the way our gender impacts on our perspective is n't being taken into consideration by whoever is doing the talking , they 're doing it wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is quite amusing to read an entire page of comments by men who think that their gender doesn't limit their perspective on this issue.
Aren't we mostly talking about things aimed at men?
A group of people united entirely and only by their gender?
If the way our gender impacts on our perspective isn't being taken into consideration by whoever is doing the talking, they're doing it wrong.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</id>
	<title>Missing reference</title>
	<author>SirGarlon</author>
	<datestamp>1255371180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The summary should have included a link to Byfield's <a href="http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3838186/" title="earthweb.com">original post</a> [earthweb.com], which explains the basis for his claim of sexism in FOSS:<blockquote><div><p>In other words, women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>

Now, isn't that by itself enough to get you thinking?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The summary should have included a link to Byfield 's original post [ earthweb.com ] , which explains the basis for his claim of sexism in FOSS : In other words , women 's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development .
Now , is n't that by itself enough to get you thinking ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The summary should have included a link to Byfield's original post [earthweb.com], which explains the basis for his claim of sexism in FOSS:In other words, women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.
Now, isn't that by itself enough to get you thinking?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721499</id>
	<title>Am I gonna have to choke a bitch?!?!?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255373760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tell your mom to get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tell your mom to get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tell your mom to get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721941</id>
	<title>Sexism? Ridiculous!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255375320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Women have an extremely important position within FOSS: horizontal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Women have an extremely important position within FOSS : horizontal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Women have an extremely important position within FOSS: horizontal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725043</id>
	<title>Re:let me get this straight</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1255345140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Because women don't volunteer their time for FOSS development, men are sexist? Sorry, I just don't follow that logic.</i> </p><p>You have more invested than your time and skills - you have invested your trust in others and your own self-respect:</p><p>When the environment is hostile it makes sense to move on.</p><p>The argument isn't that men are sexist - it's that the geek is sexist - or - more tellingly - sexually immature.</p><p>Adolescent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because women do n't volunteer their time for FOSS development , men are sexist ?
Sorry , I just do n't follow that logic .
You have more invested than your time and skills - you have invested your trust in others and your own self-respect : When the environment is hostile it makes sense to move on.The argument is n't that men are sexist - it 's that the geek is sexist - or - more tellingly - sexually immature.Adolescent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because women don't volunteer their time for FOSS development, men are sexist?
Sorry, I just don't follow that logic.
You have more invested than your time and skills - you have invested your trust in others and your own self-respect:When the environment is hostile it makes sense to move on.The argument isn't that men are sexist - it's that the geek is sexist - or - more tellingly - sexually immature.Adolescent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720395</id>
	<title>Well if that's true...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255369800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then this story should get buried pretty quickly on Slashdot!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then this story should get buried pretty quickly on Slashdot !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then this story should get buried pretty quickly on Slashdot!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723149</id>
	<title>Sexism in industry</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255380420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Both the relatively high industry female-to-male ratio and relatively low FOSS ratio may be explained by sexism in industry. Companies currently actively hire women over men in the tech industry. They offer higher pay and tolerate greater incompetence in an effort to avoid expensive accusations of sexism.</p><p>When there are well-paying full-time options in industry there's less incentive to consider starting or contributing to FOSS projects.</p><p>FOSS is the closest to meritocracy that currently exists. The projects are more distributed (less face time) and more open (anyone who wants to work can) than anything that may be found in industry. The distribution in FOSS is probably much more closely aligned with current actual male/female tendencies.</p><p>If we don't think we've made enough useless noise yet, maybe we could cry some about the horrible sexism in ballet classes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Both the relatively high industry female-to-male ratio and relatively low FOSS ratio may be explained by sexism in industry .
Companies currently actively hire women over men in the tech industry .
They offer higher pay and tolerate greater incompetence in an effort to avoid expensive accusations of sexism.When there are well-paying full-time options in industry there 's less incentive to consider starting or contributing to FOSS projects.FOSS is the closest to meritocracy that currently exists .
The projects are more distributed ( less face time ) and more open ( anyone who wants to work can ) than anything that may be found in industry .
The distribution in FOSS is probably much more closely aligned with current actual male/female tendencies.If we do n't think we 've made enough useless noise yet , maybe we could cry some about the horrible sexism in ballet classes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Both the relatively high industry female-to-male ratio and relatively low FOSS ratio may be explained by sexism in industry.
Companies currently actively hire women over men in the tech industry.
They offer higher pay and tolerate greater incompetence in an effort to avoid expensive accusations of sexism.When there are well-paying full-time options in industry there's less incentive to consider starting or contributing to FOSS projects.FOSS is the closest to meritocracy that currently exists.
The projects are more distributed (less face time) and more open (anyone who wants to work can) than anything that may be found in industry.
The distribution in FOSS is probably much more closely aligned with current actual male/female tendencies.If we don't think we've made enough useless noise yet, maybe we could cry some about the horrible sexism in ballet classes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29728013</id>
	<title>Welcome to the Interwebs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255363620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Welcome to the Interwebs,</p><p>where all the men are men,<br>all the women are men<br>and all the little girls are FBI agents.</p><p>I'll say I've seen a lot of sexism in online gaming, but when you consider that's mostly 15-25 year old's who haven't been within 6 feet of any women except their own mothers... you've gotta consider the source.</p><p>Oh wait, I just described most FOSS developers.  Yeah, nevermind<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Welcome to the Interwebs,where all the men are men,all the women are menand all the little girls are FBI agents.I 'll say I 've seen a lot of sexism in online gaming , but when you consider that 's mostly 15-25 year old 's who have n't been within 6 feet of any women except their own mothers... you 've got ta consider the source.Oh wait , I just described most FOSS developers .
Yeah , nevermind ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Welcome to the Interwebs,where all the men are men,all the women are menand all the little girls are FBI agents.I'll say I've seen a lot of sexism in online gaming, but when you consider that's mostly 15-25 year old's who haven't been within 6 feet of any women except their own mothers... you've gotta consider the source.Oh wait, I just described most FOSS developers.
Yeah, nevermind ;-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29728463</id>
	<title>Re:Seems like a contrived issue. MS astrosturfing?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255367820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You need help.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You need help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You need help.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722627</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722201</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>R2.0</author>
	<datestamp>1255376400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah - it makes me think like there might be something different obout corporate employment and volunteerism.</p><p>Perhaps some kind of laws that requires the former to hire a certain indeterminate number of women or be sued.</p><p>And perhaps run by some government entity.  A commission, perhaps.  And it could be called "Equal Employment" or some-such.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah - it makes me think like there might be something different obout corporate employment and volunteerism.Perhaps some kind of laws that requires the former to hire a certain indeterminate number of women or be sued.And perhaps run by some government entity .
A commission , perhaps .
And it could be called " Equal Employment " or some-such .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah - it makes me think like there might be something different obout corporate employment and volunteerism.Perhaps some kind of laws that requires the former to hire a certain indeterminate number of women or be sued.And perhaps run by some government entity.
A commission, perhaps.
And it could be called "Equal Employment" or some-such.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722655</id>
	<title>Guess it really is true</title>
	<author>thenextstevejobs</author>
	<datestamp>1255378320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wasn't sure if the OP had a point until I read the thread</p><p>
As the president of a campus Linux Users Group as well as working at a Fortune 100 for about a year, I've had a bit of experience with computer enthusiasts and their choices as well as the (my) work environment.
</p><p>
Obviously there is an imbalance, and I see a lot of folks saying "OK, whatever", but this is a discussion for people who care about this sort of thing. There are other issues as well, such as, why, in California, there are so few Latinos in either of these situations I'm in?
</p><p>
I'll go on to say that the issue is MUCH worse in the campus organization I've recently taken the reigns on than my workplace. Though, at my workplace I have several female coworkers, very few of these are in positions above standard "Software Engineer". At school though, we have very few girls come around. I think a lot of this could be attributed to the behaviour of the other members of the group. I think it may be more due to the "expected maturity level difference" between the two situations, ie, the relative amount of bullshit a woman would need to put up with in one situation vs. the other.
</p><p>
So, this speaks to me that I need to do what I can to perhaps persuade my members to be more "professional" as this might create a less antagonizing situation. But then I'm in a bit of a catch-22 as I've got more than a few mini-Stallmans in my group who are purposefully "anti-professional", even. Somehow the "hacker ethic" fails to include, even actively excludes women with the sort of behaviour and organizations that it spawns.
</p><p>
I know that bringing in more girls would actually make some of my fellow members uncomfortable. Linux is somewhat of a boys' clubhouse and while I've never seen people here  treat women badly, they're not as capable, subconsciously, at making them feel welcome.
</p><p>
I think the behaviour at play in the guys in my group and FOSS is a much lower-level, clan-making, different-people excluding sort of impulse that is totally backwards and unhealthy. The attitude that this "doesnt matter" is one that will only lead to increased marginalization of the community, as well as continuing to exist without some great talent that will lie dormant in the meantime. What a huge boon it might be to open source projects..
</p><p>
I suspect, however, that these projects are happier to be unofficially mens only and will hopefully fade into irrelevance as maybe some of us direct our projects into less exclusive clubs. It's my hope that this is an 'old guard' sort of situation and that some new progressiveness, as it begins to encourage nerdiness in the female also will grow enough to supplant the current status quo.
</p><p>
Though the world and the US and California (Prop 8??????????????????) have continued to surprise me with their ongoing bigotry, so thats probably a pipe dream. Maybe I can at least change my small part of the software world
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was n't sure if the OP had a point until I read the thread As the president of a campus Linux Users Group as well as working at a Fortune 100 for about a year , I 've had a bit of experience with computer enthusiasts and their choices as well as the ( my ) work environment .
Obviously there is an imbalance , and I see a lot of folks saying " OK , whatever " , but this is a discussion for people who care about this sort of thing .
There are other issues as well , such as , why , in California , there are so few Latinos in either of these situations I 'm in ?
I 'll go on to say that the issue is MUCH worse in the campus organization I 've recently taken the reigns on than my workplace .
Though , at my workplace I have several female coworkers , very few of these are in positions above standard " Software Engineer " .
At school though , we have very few girls come around .
I think a lot of this could be attributed to the behaviour of the other members of the group .
I think it may be more due to the " expected maturity level difference " between the two situations , ie , the relative amount of bullshit a woman would need to put up with in one situation vs. the other .
So , this speaks to me that I need to do what I can to perhaps persuade my members to be more " professional " as this might create a less antagonizing situation .
But then I 'm in a bit of a catch-22 as I 've got more than a few mini-Stallmans in my group who are purposefully " anti-professional " , even .
Somehow the " hacker ethic " fails to include , even actively excludes women with the sort of behaviour and organizations that it spawns .
I know that bringing in more girls would actually make some of my fellow members uncomfortable .
Linux is somewhat of a boys ' clubhouse and while I 've never seen people here treat women badly , they 're not as capable , subconsciously , at making them feel welcome .
I think the behaviour at play in the guys in my group and FOSS is a much lower-level , clan-making , different-people excluding sort of impulse that is totally backwards and unhealthy .
The attitude that this " doesnt matter " is one that will only lead to increased marginalization of the community , as well as continuing to exist without some great talent that will lie dormant in the meantime .
What a huge boon it might be to open source projects. . I suspect , however , that these projects are happier to be unofficially mens only and will hopefully fade into irrelevance as maybe some of us direct our projects into less exclusive clubs .
It 's my hope that this is an 'old guard ' sort of situation and that some new progressiveness , as it begins to encourage nerdiness in the female also will grow enough to supplant the current status quo .
Though the world and the US and California ( Prop 8 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
) have continued to surprise me with their ongoing bigotry , so thats probably a pipe dream .
Maybe I can at least change my small part of the software world</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wasn't sure if the OP had a point until I read the thread
As the president of a campus Linux Users Group as well as working at a Fortune 100 for about a year, I've had a bit of experience with computer enthusiasts and their choices as well as the (my) work environment.
Obviously there is an imbalance, and I see a lot of folks saying "OK, whatever", but this is a discussion for people who care about this sort of thing.
There are other issues as well, such as, why, in California, there are so few Latinos in either of these situations I'm in?
I'll go on to say that the issue is MUCH worse in the campus organization I've recently taken the reigns on than my workplace.
Though, at my workplace I have several female coworkers, very few of these are in positions above standard "Software Engineer".
At school though, we have very few girls come around.
I think a lot of this could be attributed to the behaviour of the other members of the group.
I think it may be more due to the "expected maturity level difference" between the two situations, ie, the relative amount of bullshit a woman would need to put up with in one situation vs. the other.
So, this speaks to me that I need to do what I can to perhaps persuade my members to be more "professional" as this might create a less antagonizing situation.
But then I'm in a bit of a catch-22 as I've got more than a few mini-Stallmans in my group who are purposefully "anti-professional", even.
Somehow the "hacker ethic" fails to include, even actively excludes women with the sort of behaviour and organizations that it spawns.
I know that bringing in more girls would actually make some of my fellow members uncomfortable.
Linux is somewhat of a boys' clubhouse and while I've never seen people here  treat women badly, they're not as capable, subconsciously, at making them feel welcome.
I think the behaviour at play in the guys in my group and FOSS is a much lower-level, clan-making, different-people excluding sort of impulse that is totally backwards and unhealthy.
The attitude that this "doesnt matter" is one that will only lead to increased marginalization of the community, as well as continuing to exist without some great talent that will lie dormant in the meantime.
What a huge boon it might be to open source projects..

I suspect, however, that these projects are happier to be unofficially mens only and will hopefully fade into irrelevance as maybe some of us direct our projects into less exclusive clubs.
It's my hope that this is an 'old guard' sort of situation and that some new progressiveness, as it begins to encourage nerdiness in the female also will grow enough to supplant the current status quo.
Though the world and the US and California (Prop 8??????????????????
) have continued to surprise me with their ongoing bigotry, so thats probably a pipe dream.
Maybe I can at least change my small part of the software world
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29740519</id>
	<title>Girls, Girls, Girls!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255449180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone who calls females "girls" and not "ladies," "trolops," "bitches," "hos" or "wenches" is obviously a pedophile and deserves to be denounced to the authorities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone who calls females " girls " and not " ladies , " " trolops , " " bitches , " " hos " or " wenches " is obviously a pedophile and deserves to be denounced to the authorities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone who calls females "girls" and not "ladies," "trolops," "bitches," "hos" or "wenches" is obviously a pedophile and deserves to be denounced to the authorities.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29728339</id>
	<title>FOSS missing out ...</title>
	<author>lolococo</author>
	<datestamp>1255366920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... almost 50\% of potential contributors - assuming there are approximately as many men as women in the world. That's what the 98\% vs 2\% tells me.<br>
Maybe we could focus on that part and get some work done ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>... almost 50 \ % of potential contributors - assuming there are approximately as many men as women in the world .
That 's what the 98 \ % vs 2 \ % tells me .
Maybe we could focus on that part and get some work done ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... almost 50\% of potential contributors - assuming there are approximately as many men as women in the world.
That's what the 98\% vs 2\% tells me.
Maybe we could focus on that part and get some work done ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725373</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>Fulcrum of Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1255346640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hate to break it to you, but when you as a group go around telling people they're going to have to change because someone is offended, you're going to get a lot of flack. If Feminism stuck to the message of 'a fair chance for everybody', it'd be a whole lot more palatable than rants about sexism in the OSS community. Sure, the Debian death threats were over the top, and Ruby presentations could generally do without random naked chicks, but don't paint the whole community (communities?) with the same brush.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hate to break it to you , but when you as a group go around telling people they 're going to have to change because someone is offended , you 're going to get a lot of flack .
If Feminism stuck to the message of 'a fair chance for everybody ' , it 'd be a whole lot more palatable than rants about sexism in the OSS community .
Sure , the Debian death threats were over the top , and Ruby presentations could generally do without random naked chicks , but do n't paint the whole community ( communities ?
) with the same brush .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hate to break it to you, but when you as a group go around telling people they're going to have to change because someone is offended, you're going to get a lot of flack.
If Feminism stuck to the message of 'a fair chance for everybody', it'd be a whole lot more palatable than rants about sexism in the OSS community.
Sure, the Debian death threats were over the top, and Ruby presentations could generally do without random naked chicks, but don't paint the whole community (communities?
) with the same brush.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723145</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>Terwin</author>
	<datestamp>1255380420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here is a problem:<br>Humans are inherently sexual beings.<br>The survival of the species demands every calory of energy that is not being spent on basic survival(and no few that are) be spent on procreation.  That is the first, last, and only goal of our genes: survive into the next generation, then the next, then the next, and so on.  Anything that interferes with that will eventually be crowded out by those that do not have that interfering behaviour.</p><p>Now, humans have developed a civilization so that survival is not nearly the challenge that it once was, and we have much more available energy to spend on things beyond survival and procreation.<br>The problem is, we still have the same drives, impulses, and needs that our primitive ancestors had.<br>We can sublimate and subvert those to a limited extent, but we are fighting against millions of years of evolution for every step we take, and if we are successful, then those abilities/techniques will die out or become rare because those without those abilities/techniques will out-breed those with them.</p><p>Society, for the most part, has managed to put some reasonable restrictions on procreation(no close relatives, children below the age of consent, people married to someone else, boss/subordinate, etc.) but outside of those constraints(and some times even within them), a majority of interaction between a person and those people with the appropriate gender, is all about finding out if the person you are speculating about will indeed have sex with you.</p><p>That is the way people are wired and we do not have the ability to change this in any significant way.</p><p>Any time you join a large group with a vast majority of them desiring a member of your gender/sexuality/hair-style/whatever for their sexual partner, you WILL get propositioned.  Even worse, the clumsy/desperate/clueless/less desirable ones will usually predominate(because the 'good' ones have an easier time finding mates).</p><p>Then, let's make the gender of those desiring you the one that is more aggressive in seeking procreation.<br>And, just for kicks, let's make the archetype of the group someone who has a drastically reduced chance of procreating for some reason(social inexperience, shyness, reduced expression of primal sexual desirability traits, etc), and you could be Jabba-the-hut in a dress and get propositioned.</p><p>If you want to interact with humans, there are certain facts you will just need to get used to.  Some guys in any group of sufficient size will sniff around any female like a male dog checking to see if a bitch is in heat.  Even worse, many of the worst examples will have been deceived in the past, so they will come back and keep checking, just to make sure.</p><p>If you do not want to deal with this, then you can either move yourself into a protected category(seminaries and convents are always looking for good people), or move away from people entirely (I mostly pursue the Hermit option myself).</p><p>So long as the human race is a vibrant and thriving species there can never be an elimination of the expression of sexual interest.  The one requires the other, and I do not wish to be part of a dying species.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here is a problem : Humans are inherently sexual beings.The survival of the species demands every calory of energy that is not being spent on basic survival ( and no few that are ) be spent on procreation .
That is the first , last , and only goal of our genes : survive into the next generation , then the next , then the next , and so on .
Anything that interferes with that will eventually be crowded out by those that do not have that interfering behaviour.Now , humans have developed a civilization so that survival is not nearly the challenge that it once was , and we have much more available energy to spend on things beyond survival and procreation.The problem is , we still have the same drives , impulses , and needs that our primitive ancestors had.We can sublimate and subvert those to a limited extent , but we are fighting against millions of years of evolution for every step we take , and if we are successful , then those abilities/techniques will die out or become rare because those without those abilities/techniques will out-breed those with them.Society , for the most part , has managed to put some reasonable restrictions on procreation ( no close relatives , children below the age of consent , people married to someone else , boss/subordinate , etc .
) but outside of those constraints ( and some times even within them ) , a majority of interaction between a person and those people with the appropriate gender , is all about finding out if the person you are speculating about will indeed have sex with you.That is the way people are wired and we do not have the ability to change this in any significant way.Any time you join a large group with a vast majority of them desiring a member of your gender/sexuality/hair-style/whatever for their sexual partner , you WILL get propositioned .
Even worse , the clumsy/desperate/clueless/less desirable ones will usually predominate ( because the 'good ' ones have an easier time finding mates ) .Then , let 's make the gender of those desiring you the one that is more aggressive in seeking procreation.And , just for kicks , let 's make the archetype of the group someone who has a drastically reduced chance of procreating for some reason ( social inexperience , shyness , reduced expression of primal sexual desirability traits , etc ) , and you could be Jabba-the-hut in a dress and get propositioned.If you want to interact with humans , there are certain facts you will just need to get used to .
Some guys in any group of sufficient size will sniff around any female like a male dog checking to see if a bitch is in heat .
Even worse , many of the worst examples will have been deceived in the past , so they will come back and keep checking , just to make sure.If you do not want to deal with this , then you can either move yourself into a protected category ( seminaries and convents are always looking for good people ) , or move away from people entirely ( I mostly pursue the Hermit option myself ) .So long as the human race is a vibrant and thriving species there can never be an elimination of the expression of sexual interest .
The one requires the other , and I do not wish to be part of a dying species .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here is a problem:Humans are inherently sexual beings.The survival of the species demands every calory of energy that is not being spent on basic survival(and no few that are) be spent on procreation.
That is the first, last, and only goal of our genes: survive into the next generation, then the next, then the next, and so on.
Anything that interferes with that will eventually be crowded out by those that do not have that interfering behaviour.Now, humans have developed a civilization so that survival is not nearly the challenge that it once was, and we have much more available energy to spend on things beyond survival and procreation.The problem is, we still have the same drives, impulses, and needs that our primitive ancestors had.We can sublimate and subvert those to a limited extent, but we are fighting against millions of years of evolution for every step we take, and if we are successful, then those abilities/techniques will die out or become rare because those without those abilities/techniques will out-breed those with them.Society, for the most part, has managed to put some reasonable restrictions on procreation(no close relatives, children below the age of consent, people married to someone else, boss/subordinate, etc.
) but outside of those constraints(and some times even within them), a majority of interaction between a person and those people with the appropriate gender, is all about finding out if the person you are speculating about will indeed have sex with you.That is the way people are wired and we do not have the ability to change this in any significant way.Any time you join a large group with a vast majority of them desiring a member of your gender/sexuality/hair-style/whatever for their sexual partner, you WILL get propositioned.
Even worse, the clumsy/desperate/clueless/less desirable ones will usually predominate(because the 'good' ones have an easier time finding mates).Then, let's make the gender of those desiring you the one that is more aggressive in seeking procreation.And, just for kicks, let's make the archetype of the group someone who has a drastically reduced chance of procreating for some reason(social inexperience, shyness, reduced expression of primal sexual desirability traits, etc), and you could be Jabba-the-hut in a dress and get propositioned.If you want to interact with humans, there are certain facts you will just need to get used to.
Some guys in any group of sufficient size will sniff around any female like a male dog checking to see if a bitch is in heat.
Even worse, many of the worst examples will have been deceived in the past, so they will come back and keep checking, just to make sure.If you do not want to deal with this, then you can either move yourself into a protected category(seminaries and convents are always looking for good people), or move away from people entirely (I mostly pursue the Hermit option myself).So long as the human race is a vibrant and thriving species there can never be an elimination of the expression of sexual interest.
The one requires the other, and I do not wish to be part of a dying species.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723649</id>
	<title>This sort of accusation sounds suspiciously...</title>
	<author>mark-t</author>
	<datestamp>1255339380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>... like a conspiracy theory.  And like most conspiracy theories, if you don't agree with the premise, then you have clearly been brainwashed by the propoganda put forward by those behind the conspiracy.
</p><p>
I'm pretty sure it qualifies as a form of logical fallacy, although I can't think of what name it would most properly be known as.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... like a conspiracy theory .
And like most conspiracy theories , if you do n't agree with the premise , then you have clearly been brainwashed by the propoganda put forward by those behind the conspiracy .
I 'm pretty sure it qualifies as a form of logical fallacy , although I ca n't think of what name it would most properly be known as .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ... like a conspiracy theory.
And like most conspiracy theories, if you don't agree with the premise, then you have clearly been brainwashed by the propoganda put forward by those behind the conspiracy.
I'm pretty sure it qualifies as a form of logical fallacy, although I can't think of what name it would most properly be known as.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722825</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Serious Callers Only</author>
	<datestamp>1255379040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really? Are you aware of what he said exactly? It is in that article you linked to, but I have to assume for some reason you discount direct quotes of him and instead rely on his after the fact interpretation of his bizarre statements?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>So what really happened is Stallman made a (admittedly unfunny) joke about religion, and even after he calmly and maturely explained their error to them, whiny 'feminist' idiots continued to take it out of context and act like it was evidence that the leader of the free software movement is some evil rape advocate, when he is, at most, sorely lacking in social skills.</p></div><p>I'll ignore the petulant tone of your riposte and bizarre references to rape - no one except you brought up rape, and it's kind of inappropriate frankly. Let's contrast his dissembling after the fact with what he actually said, as quoted by multiple people who were there:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>'"EMACS virgins" are "women who have never used EMACS" and said that it was a sacred duty to "relieve them of their virginity".</p></div><p>The joke was not about religion, but about having sex with women who have not used his favourite text editor - he's comparing initiation into the rites of EMACS to having sex; RMS is simply trying to misdirect talking about religion because he's embarrassed about what he said. It was a silly sexist remark, but apparently he can't find it in himself to admit fault. It's not big deal really, but I'd find it annoying if it was directed at me, and understand why others would too.</p><p>However, he is kind of bizarre generally, so I guess that sort of weird remark is just par for the course with him.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ?
Are you aware of what he said exactly ?
It is in that article you linked to , but I have to assume for some reason you discount direct quotes of him and instead rely on his after the fact interpretation of his bizarre statements ? So what really happened is Stallman made a ( admittedly unfunny ) joke about religion , and even after he calmly and maturely explained their error to them , whiny 'feminist ' idiots continued to take it out of context and act like it was evidence that the leader of the free software movement is some evil rape advocate , when he is , at most , sorely lacking in social skills.I 'll ignore the petulant tone of your riposte and bizarre references to rape - no one except you brought up rape , and it 's kind of inappropriate frankly .
Let 's contrast his dissembling after the fact with what he actually said , as quoted by multiple people who were there : ' " EMACS virgins " are " women who have never used EMACS " and said that it was a sacred duty to " relieve them of their virginity " .The joke was not about religion , but about having sex with women who have not used his favourite text editor - he 's comparing initiation into the rites of EMACS to having sex ; RMS is simply trying to misdirect talking about religion because he 's embarrassed about what he said .
It was a silly sexist remark , but apparently he ca n't find it in himself to admit fault .
It 's not big deal really , but I 'd find it annoying if it was directed at me , and understand why others would too.However , he is kind of bizarre generally , so I guess that sort of weird remark is just par for the course with him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really?
Are you aware of what he said exactly?
It is in that article you linked to, but I have to assume for some reason you discount direct quotes of him and instead rely on his after the fact interpretation of his bizarre statements?So what really happened is Stallman made a (admittedly unfunny) joke about religion, and even after he calmly and maturely explained their error to them, whiny 'feminist' idiots continued to take it out of context and act like it was evidence that the leader of the free software movement is some evil rape advocate, when he is, at most, sorely lacking in social skills.I'll ignore the petulant tone of your riposte and bizarre references to rape - no one except you brought up rape, and it's kind of inappropriate frankly.
Let's contrast his dissembling after the fact with what he actually said, as quoted by multiple people who were there:'"EMACS virgins" are "women who have never used EMACS" and said that it was a sacred duty to "relieve them of their virginity".The joke was not about religion, but about having sex with women who have not used his favourite text editor - he's comparing initiation into the rites of EMACS to having sex; RMS is simply trying to misdirect talking about religion because he's embarrassed about what he said.
It was a silly sexist remark, but apparently he can't find it in himself to admit fault.
It's not big deal really, but I'd find it annoying if it was directed at me, and understand why others would too.However, he is kind of bizarre generally, so I guess that sort of weird remark is just par for the course with him.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29726287</id>
	<title>Dip-Shit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255351380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not everything needs to be politicised and made part of the great American nuroticism/tree-hug,</p><p>There is absolutely nothing about FOSS that is sexist, except that not many women want to do it,<br>that is their choice. If they want to start there is NO bar.</p><p>Don't make a mountain out of nothing!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not everything needs to be politicised and made part of the great American nuroticism/tree-hug,There is absolutely nothing about FOSS that is sexist , except that not many women want to do it,that is their choice .
If they want to start there is NO bar.Do n't make a mountain out of nothing !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not everything needs to be politicised and made part of the great American nuroticism/tree-hug,There is absolutely nothing about FOSS that is sexist, except that not many women want to do it,that is their choice.
If they want to start there is NO bar.Don't make a mountain out of nothing!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720527</id>
	<title>Here's two</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255370280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ever heard of BitchX?  How about etherape?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ever heard of BitchX ?
How about etherape ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ever heard of BitchX?
How about etherape?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727257</id>
	<title>Re:Stand up for equality!</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1255357680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't use the terminal, it's sexist. I have proof.</p><p>#man women<br>No manual entry for women</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't use the terminal , it 's sexist .
I have proof. # man womenNo manual entry for women</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't use the terminal, it's sexist.
I have proof.#man womenNo manual entry for women</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721189</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29726639</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255353360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The "sendthemtothekitchen" tag-joke is an intentional historical throwback to irritate people such as yourself.   Congratulations for falling for it.   In short, good riddance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The " sendthemtothekitchen " tag-joke is an intentional historical throwback to irritate people such as yourself .
Congratulations for falling for it .
In short , good riddance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "sendthemtothekitchen" tag-joke is an intentional historical throwback to irritate people such as yourself.
Congratulations for falling for it.
In short, good riddance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720775</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720833</id>
	<title>1.5\% isn't bad</title>
	<author>jim\_v2000</author>
	<datestamp>1255371600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>when you consider that there are no girls on the internet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>when you consider that there are no girls on the internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>when you consider that there are no girls on the internet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724489</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>stink\_eye</author>
	<datestamp>1255342620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It is quite amusing to read an entire page of comments by men who think that their gender doesn't limit their perspective on this issue. That demonstrates the very root of the problem: maleness is still the default, the essential; a woman's perspective is considered especially different from a man's but the reverse is never true. With very few exceptions, all of the comments on this article reveal an attitude that the male perspective is complete and true while the female perspective is a special subset.</p> </div><p>Typical, attack a stereotype with an equally generalized and unsupportable assertion.  Because someone does that to your particular group it entitles you to to the same?  I read through all the articles modded 3 and higher prior to running across yours, there where plenty of comments representing both sides of the issue.
<br>
Unfortunately it seems to me that your statements belie just as much pig headed opinionism and hyperbole as any male chauvensists drivel.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet, so this conversation is basically hopeless no matter what. But let me share with you some anti-feminist clich&#233;s (courtesy of jezebel.com) so we can at least get them out of the way now.</p></div><p>
Great, let's rail about how anti-feminine Slashdot is and then quote examples of that from a site that has nothing to do with Slashdot or wasn't particularly related to the article that spawned this particular thread.  Tell you what, why don't you go down through this thread one more time without having your 'agenda blinders' on and show me how many chauvanist quotes there really are?  And if/when you do find them why don't you show me where Slashdot actually squelched opinions relating to the matter?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Feminists can't take a joke. The problem is not that feminists can't take a joke. (We can.) The problem is that you can't take feminists seriously.</p></div><p>
Generalize much?</p><p><div class="quote"><p> Some girls like [X], so it must be okay. Men often disagree on things. Women do too. One woman's disagreement does not invalidate the opinions of every other woman.</p></div><p>
No one here ever made such a contention.  Nor was this contention made in the original article.  Axe to grind?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Criticizing misogyny is a waste of time. This might actually be true here.</p></div><p>
Based on your previous statements regarding your lack of a fair shake on slashdot, I take it you mean that is is a waste of time to make your argument to this particular forum?  Brilliant!  Because it only makes sense to proselytize to people that already agree with you!  Ever hear of preaching to the choir loft?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Feminists have no lives. The implication here seems to be that feminists had to have suffered some great personal disappointment. Sorry, no; I just have to endure cat calls from sleazy strangers on my walk to work, get interrupted in meetings (and then get pigeonholed as a bitch for standing up for myself), and frequently have to put up with people who are blind to their own privilege. I really, really wish that my having a life would make this all stop.</p></div><p>
Again no one has made this an issue in this forum aside from yourself.  You are arguing points that have nothing to do with the thread.
<br>
Moving along, nothing of substance to this argument, it's as generalized and hyperbolic as any chauvinist/racist statement I have ever heard made....</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is quite amusing to read an entire page of comments by men who think that their gender does n't limit their perspective on this issue .
That demonstrates the very root of the problem : maleness is still the default , the essential ; a woman 's perspective is considered especially different from a man 's but the reverse is never true .
With very few exceptions , all of the comments on this article reveal an attitude that the male perspective is complete and true while the female perspective is a special subset .
Typical , attack a stereotype with an equally generalized and unsupportable assertion .
Because someone does that to your particular group it entitles you to to the same ?
I read through all the articles modded 3 and higher prior to running across yours , there where plenty of comments representing both sides of the issue .
Unfortunately it seems to me that your statements belie just as much pig headed opinionism and hyperbole as any male chauvensists drivel.Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet , so this conversation is basically hopeless no matter what .
But let me share with you some anti-feminist clich   s ( courtesy of jezebel.com ) so we can at least get them out of the way now .
Great , let 's rail about how anti-feminine Slashdot is and then quote examples of that from a site that has nothing to do with Slashdot or was n't particularly related to the article that spawned this particular thread .
Tell you what , why do n't you go down through this thread one more time without having your 'agenda blinders ' on and show me how many chauvanist quotes there really are ?
And if/when you do find them why do n't you show me where Slashdot actually squelched opinions relating to the matter ? Feminists ca n't take a joke .
The problem is not that feminists ca n't take a joke .
( We can .
) The problem is that you ca n't take feminists seriously .
Generalize much ?
Some girls like [ X ] , so it must be okay .
Men often disagree on things .
Women do too .
One woman 's disagreement does not invalidate the opinions of every other woman .
No one here ever made such a contention .
Nor was this contention made in the original article .
Axe to grind ? Criticizing misogyny is a waste of time .
This might actually be true here .
Based on your previous statements regarding your lack of a fair shake on slashdot , I take it you mean that is is a waste of time to make your argument to this particular forum ?
Brilliant ! Because it only makes sense to proselytize to people that already agree with you !
Ever hear of preaching to the choir loft ? Feminists have no lives .
The implication here seems to be that feminists had to have suffered some great personal disappointment .
Sorry , no ; I just have to endure cat calls from sleazy strangers on my walk to work , get interrupted in meetings ( and then get pigeonholed as a bitch for standing up for myself ) , and frequently have to put up with people who are blind to their own privilege .
I really , really wish that my having a life would make this all stop .
Again no one has made this an issue in this forum aside from yourself .
You are arguing points that have nothing to do with the thread .
Moving along , nothing of substance to this argument , it 's as generalized and hyperbolic as any chauvinist/racist statement I have ever heard made... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is quite amusing to read an entire page of comments by men who think that their gender doesn't limit their perspective on this issue.
That demonstrates the very root of the problem: maleness is still the default, the essential; a woman's perspective is considered especially different from a man's but the reverse is never true.
With very few exceptions, all of the comments on this article reveal an attitude that the male perspective is complete and true while the female perspective is a special subset.
Typical, attack a stereotype with an equally generalized and unsupportable assertion.
Because someone does that to your particular group it entitles you to to the same?
I read through all the articles modded 3 and higher prior to running across yours, there where plenty of comments representing both sides of the issue.
Unfortunately it seems to me that your statements belie just as much pig headed opinionism and hyperbole as any male chauvensists drivel.Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet, so this conversation is basically hopeless no matter what.
But let me share with you some anti-feminist clichés (courtesy of jezebel.com) so we can at least get them out of the way now.
Great, let's rail about how anti-feminine Slashdot is and then quote examples of that from a site that has nothing to do with Slashdot or wasn't particularly related to the article that spawned this particular thread.
Tell you what, why don't you go down through this thread one more time without having your 'agenda blinders' on and show me how many chauvanist quotes there really are?
And if/when you do find them why don't you show me where Slashdot actually squelched opinions relating to the matter?Feminists can't take a joke.
The problem is not that feminists can't take a joke.
(We can.
) The problem is that you can't take feminists seriously.
Generalize much?
Some girls like [X], so it must be okay.
Men often disagree on things.
Women do too.
One woman's disagreement does not invalidate the opinions of every other woman.
No one here ever made such a contention.
Nor was this contention made in the original article.
Axe to grind?Criticizing misogyny is a waste of time.
This might actually be true here.
Based on your previous statements regarding your lack of a fair shake on slashdot, I take it you mean that is is a waste of time to make your argument to this particular forum?
Brilliant!  Because it only makes sense to proselytize to people that already agree with you!
Ever hear of preaching to the choir loft?Feminists have no lives.
The implication here seems to be that feminists had to have suffered some great personal disappointment.
Sorry, no; I just have to endure cat calls from sleazy strangers on my walk to work, get interrupted in meetings (and then get pigeonholed as a bitch for standing up for myself), and frequently have to put up with people who are blind to their own privilege.
I really, really wish that my having a life would make this all stop.
Again no one has made this an issue in this forum aside from yourself.
You are arguing points that have nothing to do with the thread.
Moving along, nothing of substance to this argument, it's as generalized and hyperbolic as any chauvinist/racist statement I have ever heard made....
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723551</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>martyros</author>
	<datestamp>1255339080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Making sexist remarks, ok, I can understand how that might be seen as being sexist. But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour? Face it, if I were to join a group that's 98.5\% women and demonstrate that I share an interest with all of them then I strongly suspect I'd get asked out too. Would I complain that their behaviour was sexist? No. Obviously not.</p></div></blockquote><p>Can you really not imagine how it would make a woman uncomfortable to be asked out by someone every other LUG meeting?  Not by someone who had already established a relationship of mutual respect and interest, and was reasonably confident that there could be mutual romantic interest as well, but by a guy who is just so excited to meet his "dream girl" who knows Linux, or worse yet, the guy who wanted to ask "how to talk to girls"?
</p><p>And that's really the problem: not that the 40 guys at the LUG are overtly sexist, but that their individual choices, made as a group, have a strong deterrent effect.  It's just a fact that when women come to a group that's so overwhelmingly male-dominated, they get male attention that makes them uncomfortable.  They get the same kind of unwanted male attention in lower doses when the gender ratio is 50/50, so they're a little used to it; but when it's 40-to-1, it's a bit too much to take.  (I suppose it's a bit like the Slashdot Effect, actually: each slashdotter is following a link to a web page, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do; but the total effect is melted servers.  At the LUG, each individual guy just says to himself, "Wow, what a cool girl!  I wonder if she'd go out with me?  Can't hurt to ask!" but the overall effect is overload.)
</p><p>So the question for you is: will you try to find out and understand what things you and the people around you in FOSS are doing, quite innocently and unintentionally, that discourage women, and try to change them?  Or will you insist on judging women as basically the same as you, but more curvy, and say, "That wouldn't bother me, so why should it bother them"?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Making sexist remarks , ok , I can understand how that might be seen as being sexist .
But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour ?
Face it , if I were to join a group that 's 98.5 \ % women and demonstrate that I share an interest with all of them then I strongly suspect I 'd get asked out too .
Would I complain that their behaviour was sexist ?
No. Obviously not.Can you really not imagine how it would make a woman uncomfortable to be asked out by someone every other LUG meeting ?
Not by someone who had already established a relationship of mutual respect and interest , and was reasonably confident that there could be mutual romantic interest as well , but by a guy who is just so excited to meet his " dream girl " who knows Linux , or worse yet , the guy who wanted to ask " how to talk to girls " ?
And that 's really the problem : not that the 40 guys at the LUG are overtly sexist , but that their individual choices , made as a group , have a strong deterrent effect .
It 's just a fact that when women come to a group that 's so overwhelmingly male-dominated , they get male attention that makes them uncomfortable .
They get the same kind of unwanted male attention in lower doses when the gender ratio is 50/50 , so they 're a little used to it ; but when it 's 40-to-1 , it 's a bit too much to take .
( I suppose it 's a bit like the Slashdot Effect , actually : each slashdotter is following a link to a web page , which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do ; but the total effect is melted servers .
At the LUG , each individual guy just says to himself , " Wow , what a cool girl !
I wonder if she 'd go out with me ?
Ca n't hurt to ask !
" but the overall effect is overload .
) So the question for you is : will you try to find out and understand what things you and the people around you in FOSS are doing , quite innocently and unintentionally , that discourage women , and try to change them ?
Or will you insist on judging women as basically the same as you , but more curvy , and say , " That would n't bother me , so why should it bother them " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Making sexist remarks, ok, I can understand how that might be seen as being sexist.
But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour?
Face it, if I were to join a group that's 98.5\% women and demonstrate that I share an interest with all of them then I strongly suspect I'd get asked out too.
Would I complain that their behaviour was sexist?
No. Obviously not.Can you really not imagine how it would make a woman uncomfortable to be asked out by someone every other LUG meeting?
Not by someone who had already established a relationship of mutual respect and interest, and was reasonably confident that there could be mutual romantic interest as well, but by a guy who is just so excited to meet his "dream girl" who knows Linux, or worse yet, the guy who wanted to ask "how to talk to girls"?
And that's really the problem: not that the 40 guys at the LUG are overtly sexist, but that their individual choices, made as a group, have a strong deterrent effect.
It's just a fact that when women come to a group that's so overwhelmingly male-dominated, they get male attention that makes them uncomfortable.
They get the same kind of unwanted male attention in lower doses when the gender ratio is 50/50, so they're a little used to it; but when it's 40-to-1, it's a bit too much to take.
(I suppose it's a bit like the Slashdot Effect, actually: each slashdotter is following a link to a web page, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do; but the total effect is melted servers.
At the LUG, each individual guy just says to himself, "Wow, what a cool girl!
I wonder if she'd go out with me?
Can't hurt to ask!
" but the overall effect is overload.
)
So the question for you is: will you try to find out and understand what things you and the people around you in FOSS are doing, quite innocently and unintentionally, that discourage women, and try to change them?
Or will you insist on judging women as basically the same as you, but more curvy, and say, "That wouldn't bother me, so why should it bother them"?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722603</id>
	<title>Paranoia will destroy ya. ;)</title>
	<author>petrus4</author>
	<datestamp>1255378020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People are oversensitive to a degree which is nothing short of insane, these days.  I remember the unbelievable global flap that occurred in response to a couple of guys painting themselves black on Hey Hey It's Saturday last week.</p><p>Then there was a "sex scene," in the pilot of the latest Stargate series, which could not have been less graphic.  You literally don't see anything at all, and I mean anything.  A woman is looking a little sweaty, is breathing heavily, and has her legs wrapped around a guy's waist.  That's it.  No breasts, and not even a hint of such.  Nothing else either.  It also wasn't on the screen for more than probably a minute, tops.  I caught myself after I saw it, because I was wondering whether that was what the article I read beforehand was referring to, or whether there was going to be something else.  It was literally that tame.</p><p>Yet people were talking about how inappropriate it could potentially be, etc etc.</p><p>So to any women (and yes, I mean any) who were offended by any of the lame things said by Mark Shuttleworth or RMS, I have a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3ORwO5xDUE" title="youtube.com">song</a> [youtube.com] for you to listen to.  I will also laugh with contempt at any response to this from enraged lesbians telling me that I'm obviously yet another pathologically chauvanistic male, so feel free.</p><p>If hearing Stallman talk about wanting to deflower female virgins during an Emacs speech, is the most psychologically scarring thing you've had to deal with in life, then all I can say is that you've had it a lot easier than most.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People are oversensitive to a degree which is nothing short of insane , these days .
I remember the unbelievable global flap that occurred in response to a couple of guys painting themselves black on Hey Hey It 's Saturday last week.Then there was a " sex scene , " in the pilot of the latest Stargate series , which could not have been less graphic .
You literally do n't see anything at all , and I mean anything .
A woman is looking a little sweaty , is breathing heavily , and has her legs wrapped around a guy 's waist .
That 's it .
No breasts , and not even a hint of such .
Nothing else either .
It also was n't on the screen for more than probably a minute , tops .
I caught myself after I saw it , because I was wondering whether that was what the article I read beforehand was referring to , or whether there was going to be something else .
It was literally that tame.Yet people were talking about how inappropriate it could potentially be , etc etc.So to any women ( and yes , I mean any ) who were offended by any of the lame things said by Mark Shuttleworth or RMS , I have a song [ youtube.com ] for you to listen to .
I will also laugh with contempt at any response to this from enraged lesbians telling me that I 'm obviously yet another pathologically chauvanistic male , so feel free.If hearing Stallman talk about wanting to deflower female virgins during an Emacs speech , is the most psychologically scarring thing you 've had to deal with in life , then all I can say is that you 've had it a lot easier than most .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People are oversensitive to a degree which is nothing short of insane, these days.
I remember the unbelievable global flap that occurred in response to a couple of guys painting themselves black on Hey Hey It's Saturday last week.Then there was a "sex scene," in the pilot of the latest Stargate series, which could not have been less graphic.
You literally don't see anything at all, and I mean anything.
A woman is looking a little sweaty, is breathing heavily, and has her legs wrapped around a guy's waist.
That's it.
No breasts, and not even a hint of such.
Nothing else either.
It also wasn't on the screen for more than probably a minute, tops.
I caught myself after I saw it, because I was wondering whether that was what the article I read beforehand was referring to, or whether there was going to be something else.
It was literally that tame.Yet people were talking about how inappropriate it could potentially be, etc etc.So to any women (and yes, I mean any) who were offended by any of the lame things said by Mark Shuttleworth or RMS, I have a song [youtube.com] for you to listen to.
I will also laugh with contempt at any response to this from enraged lesbians telling me that I'm obviously yet another pathologically chauvanistic male, so feel free.If hearing Stallman talk about wanting to deflower female virgins during an Emacs speech, is the most psychologically scarring thing you've had to deal with in life, then all I can say is that you've had it a lot easier than most.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721849</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255375020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously...  The difference is totally on the receiving end.  As a white male, I get jokes about white guy this, white guy that...  now that I'm older, I get the old man jokes too.  I'm bald, I get bald jokes.  I wear glasses... 4 eyes, anyone?  And you know what?  I couldn't give a damn.  We're all having fun.  The gal with the mustache, if she makes a bald joke, I joke about her mustache.  We laugh, even high five, and move on.  The point is, there is a bunch of thinned skinned people out there actively looking to feel insulted.  It's not just women, either.  I've heard people say, "Grow a pair" in response to reports of sexism in computing and FOSS... and while that remark *is* sexist, the message I think they're trying to actually convey and lack the ability to communicate is, "Please people... show some tolerance.  No one is trying to hurt you."</p><p>If you walk around through life always looking for who's insulting you, and let it get to you... you're life is going to suck, and then you're going to whine about it, which will make people treat you worse.  My advise?  Please people, just realize no one INTENDED harm against you or your class.  They're talking, and often times say things they've learned from society, or even sometimes talk out their asses...  but there was no harm intended.  So please just realize that, recognize that people are people, and often times say things, and have never really spent hours or days troubling over every sentence to think how they might offend community a, b, or c.</p><p>Now if you have someone start insulting you directly, or questioning your decisions directly based on your gender, race, or whatever... THEN you have a person that should be talked to / re-trained.  But otherwise, can't we just get along?</p><p>Why do I say this?  Because I personally don't care who is offended...  get the job done.  Don't care who you are, what gender you are, what you look like, sound like, smell like.  Just get the job done.  If you have time to actively look for things to offend you, then maybe you should be coding instead.</p><p>Now shut up, all of you, and get back to work!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously... The difference is totally on the receiving end .
As a white male , I get jokes about white guy this , white guy that... now that I 'm older , I get the old man jokes too .
I 'm bald , I get bald jokes .
I wear glasses... 4 eyes , anyone ?
And you know what ?
I could n't give a damn .
We 're all having fun .
The gal with the mustache , if she makes a bald joke , I joke about her mustache .
We laugh , even high five , and move on .
The point is , there is a bunch of thinned skinned people out there actively looking to feel insulted .
It 's not just women , either .
I 've heard people say , " Grow a pair " in response to reports of sexism in computing and FOSS... and while that remark * is * sexist , the message I think they 're trying to actually convey and lack the ability to communicate is , " Please people... show some tolerance .
No one is trying to hurt you .
" If you walk around through life always looking for who 's insulting you , and let it get to you... you 're life is going to suck , and then you 're going to whine about it , which will make people treat you worse .
My advise ?
Please people , just realize no one INTENDED harm against you or your class .
They 're talking , and often times say things they 've learned from society , or even sometimes talk out their asses... but there was no harm intended .
So please just realize that , recognize that people are people , and often times say things , and have never really spent hours or days troubling over every sentence to think how they might offend community a , b , or c.Now if you have someone start insulting you directly , or questioning your decisions directly based on your gender , race , or whatever... THEN you have a person that should be talked to / re-trained .
But otherwise , ca n't we just get along ? Why do I say this ?
Because I personally do n't care who is offended... get the job done .
Do n't care who you are , what gender you are , what you look like , sound like , smell like .
Just get the job done .
If you have time to actively look for things to offend you , then maybe you should be coding instead.Now shut up , all of you , and get back to work !
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously...  The difference is totally on the receiving end.
As a white male, I get jokes about white guy this, white guy that...  now that I'm older, I get the old man jokes too.
I'm bald, I get bald jokes.
I wear glasses... 4 eyes, anyone?
And you know what?
I couldn't give a damn.
We're all having fun.
The gal with the mustache, if she makes a bald joke, I joke about her mustache.
We laugh, even high five, and move on.
The point is, there is a bunch of thinned skinned people out there actively looking to feel insulted.
It's not just women, either.
I've heard people say, "Grow a pair" in response to reports of sexism in computing and FOSS... and while that remark *is* sexist, the message I think they're trying to actually convey and lack the ability to communicate is, "Please people... show some tolerance.
No one is trying to hurt you.
"If you walk around through life always looking for who's insulting you, and let it get to you... you're life is going to suck, and then you're going to whine about it, which will make people treat you worse.
My advise?
Please people, just realize no one INTENDED harm against you or your class.
They're talking, and often times say things they've learned from society, or even sometimes talk out their asses...  but there was no harm intended.
So please just realize that, recognize that people are people, and often times say things, and have never really spent hours or days troubling over every sentence to think how they might offend community a, b, or c.Now if you have someone start insulting you directly, or questioning your decisions directly based on your gender, race, or whatever... THEN you have a person that should be talked to / re-trained.
But otherwise, can't we just get along?Why do I say this?
Because I personally don't care who is offended...  get the job done.
Don't care who you are, what gender you are, what you look like, sound like, smell like.
Just get the job done.
If you have time to actively look for things to offend you, then maybe you should be coding instead.Now shut up, all of you, and get back to work!
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720775</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721757</id>
	<title>People don't like being labeled with a pejorative.</title>
	<author>Gudeldar</author>
	<datestamp>1255374660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How exactly are you shocked when you suffer abuse after labeling an entire community with a pejorative word like "sexist".


Also should we really take advice on discrimination from a guy who obviously thinks being called homosexual is abuse.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How exactly are you shocked when you suffer abuse after labeling an entire community with a pejorative word like " sexist " .
Also should we really take advice on discrimination from a guy who obviously thinks being called homosexual is abuse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How exactly are you shocked when you suffer abuse after labeling an entire community with a pejorative word like "sexist".
Also should we really take advice on discrimination from a guy who obviously thinks being called homosexual is abuse.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722421</id>
	<title>Re:Standard FOSS: Don't blame, Debug!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255377240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>without a single F/L/OSS coder needing to change their gender.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>without a single F/L/OSS coder needing to change their gender .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>without a single F/L/OSS coder needing to change their gender.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721227</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255372920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why do women have to feel welcome? I'm a white dude and I feel unwelcome everywhere I go. Is that just me?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do women have to feel welcome ?
I 'm a white dude and I feel unwelcome everywhere I go .
Is that just me ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do women have to feel welcome?
I'm a white dude and I feel unwelcome everywhere I go.
Is that just me?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720775</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722627</id>
	<title>Seems like a contrived issue.  MS astrosturfing?</title>
	<author>echtertyp</author>
	<datestamp>1255378200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This smacks of some (not all) women just wanting special perks, attention, and "the rules bend for me" type treatment.  Or, could this be a nice little campaign from our friends in Redmond, to distract and delay?  Per Occam's Razor, the Redmond angle is the most convincing to me.

Fact is, with the nature of FOSS development, evangelism and practical application, you could be a purple alien with two heads and enjoy respect and success.

Next topic please!</htmltext>
<tokenext>This smacks of some ( not all ) women just wanting special perks , attention , and " the rules bend for me " type treatment .
Or , could this be a nice little campaign from our friends in Redmond , to distract and delay ?
Per Occam 's Razor , the Redmond angle is the most convincing to me .
Fact is , with the nature of FOSS development , evangelism and practical application , you could be a purple alien with two heads and enjoy respect and success .
Next topic please !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This smacks of some (not all) women just wanting special perks, attention, and "the rules bend for me" type treatment.
Or, could this be a nice little campaign from our friends in Redmond, to distract and delay?
Per Occam's Razor, the Redmond angle is the most convincing to me.
Fact is, with the nature of FOSS development, evangelism and practical application, you could be a purple alien with two heads and enjoy respect and success.
Next topic please!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725571</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>t0rkm3</author>
	<datestamp>1255347540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps you're being interrupted because the meeting has a timeline and you're filibustering.</p><p>I interrupt people all the time if they are off point or rambling about extraneous details that should be sidebarred. I would call you nasty epithets under my breath if you jumped down my throat.</p><p>Instead, you should the same as all of the professionals I know do when they are interrupted. Provide a brief case as to why what you have to say is important to this meeting, or apologize and get back to business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps you 're being interrupted because the meeting has a timeline and you 're filibustering.I interrupt people all the time if they are off point or rambling about extraneous details that should be sidebarred .
I would call you nasty epithets under my breath if you jumped down my throat.Instead , you should the same as all of the professionals I know do when they are interrupted .
Provide a brief case as to why what you have to say is important to this meeting , or apologize and get back to business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps you're being interrupted because the meeting has a timeline and you're filibustering.I interrupt people all the time if they are off point or rambling about extraneous details that should be sidebarred.
I would call you nasty epithets under my breath if you jumped down my throat.Instead, you should the same as all of the professionals I know do when they are interrupted.
Provide a brief case as to why what you have to say is important to this meeting, or apologize and get back to business.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725269</id>
	<title>feminism = sexism</title>
	<author>joocemann</author>
	<datestamp>1255346280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How can you be a feminist that is against sexism?    That doesn't make any sense.   Sexism is an ideology that favors one sex in over another.  Feminism is an ideology that places a specific sex (female) over another; it is a word for a specific mode of sexism.</p><p>This whole topic is ridiculous.  I'm reminded of the racism that some people call 'reverse racsim' (lol, as if it is any different) where blacks label themselves (or cars, etc) "Black Pride", latinos "Latin Pride" and natives "Native/Indian Pride".   It is silly to think that a minority, subject to racial oppression from a majority, would serve to promote equality by embracing racism.  All this really does is give oppressive racist majorities more reason to maintain racist beliefs.</p><p>If we stop acknowledging irrational differences of sex and race, we may *actually* begin to achieve equality.  I find it funny that my race and sex actually matter when applying for schools and jobs in  a country that is supposed to embrace equality.  What does inequal treatment based on race do to achieve equality? Nothing; it takes us away from equality.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How can you be a feminist that is against sexism ?
That does n't make any sense .
Sexism is an ideology that favors one sex in over another .
Feminism is an ideology that places a specific sex ( female ) over another ; it is a word for a specific mode of sexism.This whole topic is ridiculous .
I 'm reminded of the racism that some people call 'reverse racsim ' ( lol , as if it is any different ) where blacks label themselves ( or cars , etc ) " Black Pride " , latinos " Latin Pride " and natives " Native/Indian Pride " .
It is silly to think that a minority , subject to racial oppression from a majority , would serve to promote equality by embracing racism .
All this really does is give oppressive racist majorities more reason to maintain racist beliefs.If we stop acknowledging irrational differences of sex and race , we may * actually * begin to achieve equality .
I find it funny that my race and sex actually matter when applying for schools and jobs in a country that is supposed to embrace equality .
What does inequal treatment based on race do to achieve equality ?
Nothing ; it takes us away from equality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How can you be a feminist that is against sexism?
That doesn't make any sense.
Sexism is an ideology that favors one sex in over another.
Feminism is an ideology that places a specific sex (female) over another; it is a word for a specific mode of sexism.This whole topic is ridiculous.
I'm reminded of the racism that some people call 'reverse racsim' (lol, as if it is any different) where blacks label themselves (or cars, etc) "Black Pride", latinos "Latin Pride" and natives "Native/Indian Pride".
It is silly to think that a minority, subject to racial oppression from a majority, would serve to promote equality by embracing racism.
All this really does is give oppressive racist majorities more reason to maintain racist beliefs.If we stop acknowledging irrational differences of sex and race, we may *actually* begin to achieve equality.
I find it funny that my race and sex actually matter when applying for schools and jobs in  a country that is supposed to embrace equality.
What does inequal treatment based on race do to achieve equality?
Nothing; it takes us away from equality.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721557</id>
	<title>Re:reports of ire and denial met with ire and deni</title>
	<author>Random2</author>
	<datestamp>1255374000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, troll threads do their job well.  It's not like generalizations are actually of any worth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , troll threads do their job well .
It 's not like generalizations are actually of any worth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, troll threads do their job well.
It's not like generalizations are actually of any worth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720955</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724507</id>
	<title>An old saying</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255342680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This reminds me of an old saying: "If you put an idiot and a genius in a room together for an hour, they will both come out thinking the other is an idiot."</p><p>Well, Bryce Byfield, I can say for certain that you're no genius.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This reminds me of an old saying : " If you put an idiot and a genius in a room together for an hour , they will both come out thinking the other is an idiot .
" Well , Bryce Byfield , I can say for certain that you 're no genius .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This reminds me of an old saying: "If you put an idiot and a genius in a room together for an hour, they will both come out thinking the other is an idiot.
"Well, Bryce Byfield, I can say for certain that you're no genius.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724127</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255341120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes and no.  Some things to consider:</p><p>1) I'm under the impression that there are a lot more male coders out there than there are female coders.</p><p>2) I'm absolutely certain that not all coders contribute to open source.</p><p>This makes the cross section of coders who are female AND contribute to open source likely to be pretty damn small, right?  I mean, why point the finger at FOSS, when the entire industry is skewed?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes and no .
Some things to consider : 1 ) I 'm under the impression that there are a lot more male coders out there than there are female coders.2 ) I 'm absolutely certain that not all coders contribute to open source.This makes the cross section of coders who are female AND contribute to open source likely to be pretty damn small , right ?
I mean , why point the finger at FOSS , when the entire industry is skewed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes and no.
Some things to consider:1) I'm under the impression that there are a lot more male coders out there than there are female coders.2) I'm absolutely certain that not all coders contribute to open source.This makes the cross section of coders who are female AND contribute to open source likely to be pretty damn small, right?
I mean, why point the finger at FOSS, when the entire industry is skewed?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721635</id>
	<title>Don't Acknowledge</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255374240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To some women, just acknowledging the fact that they are women is considered sexist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To some women , just acknowledging the fact that they are women is considered sexist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To some women, just acknowledging the fact that they are women is considered sexist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721991</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255375500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>....when the sex of the contributor is more often than not completely unknown?</p></div><p>Sexism can be an issue.</p><p>For example, if some people in a FOSS voice opinions that degrade women it can make any women reading those opinions uncomfortable even if no one knows that she is a women!</p><p>It isn't just, no-girls-allowed. It is also about creating and maintaining an environment where people of either gender are comfortable working.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>....when the sex of the contributor is more often than not completely unknown ? Sexism can be an issue.For example , if some people in a FOSS voice opinions that degrade women it can make any women reading those opinions uncomfortable even if no one knows that she is a women ! It is n't just , no-girls-allowed .
It is also about creating and maintaining an environment where people of either gender are comfortable working .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>....when the sex of the contributor is more often than not completely unknown?Sexism can be an issue.For example, if some people in a FOSS voice opinions that degrade women it can make any women reading those opinions uncomfortable even if no one knows that she is a women!It isn't just, no-girls-allowed.
It is also about creating and maintaining an environment where people of either gender are comfortable working.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725781</id>
	<title>I suggest a little experiment</title>
	<author>access.name</author>
	<datestamp>1255348800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To all slashdot (male) commenters, I suggest they do a little experiment. Create a new (female) online identity, clearly female by the mail address and displayed name. Then start contributing to a project, or start discussing in a forum. Try to see the differences in how are you treated.
<br> <br>
I suspect there are lots of women using male nicknames or neutral emails for this reason.</htmltext>
<tokenext>To all slashdot ( male ) commenters , I suggest they do a little experiment .
Create a new ( female ) online identity , clearly female by the mail address and displayed name .
Then start contributing to a project , or start discussing in a forum .
Try to see the differences in how are you treated .
I suspect there are lots of women using male nicknames or neutral emails for this reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To all slashdot (male) commenters, I suggest they do a little experiment.
Create a new (female) online identity, clearly female by the mail address and displayed name.
Then start contributing to a project, or start discussing in a forum.
Try to see the differences in how are you treated.
I suspect there are lots of women using male nicknames or neutral emails for this reason.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722183</id>
	<title>The real problems is interest.</title>
	<author>miffo.swe</author>
	<datestamp>1255376220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real problem with to few women in FOSS is the same as in many other places. Girls are mostly uninterested in computers in general and the inner workings in particular. The solution isnt to fundamentally change the enviroment to be "girly" but to get more women interested in technology in general. If the interest is there things sorts themselves out. I havent ever seen a girl being welcomed with anything but open arms in my line of work (sysadmin). They are judged by their knowledge and ability, nothing more nothing less.</p><p>To single out this as a FOSS problem is just insane since the "problem" exists in technology in general and is not confined to open source. The reason i write "problem" is that i dont see any defiances with people doing what interests them the most. Get more women interested and they will be welcomed just like anyone else jumping into FOSS, prove yourself first and then get the respect you deserve. Not the other way round.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real problem with to few women in FOSS is the same as in many other places .
Girls are mostly uninterested in computers in general and the inner workings in particular .
The solution isnt to fundamentally change the enviroment to be " girly " but to get more women interested in technology in general .
If the interest is there things sorts themselves out .
I havent ever seen a girl being welcomed with anything but open arms in my line of work ( sysadmin ) .
They are judged by their knowledge and ability , nothing more nothing less.To single out this as a FOSS problem is just insane since the " problem " exists in technology in general and is not confined to open source .
The reason i write " problem " is that i dont see any defiances with people doing what interests them the most .
Get more women interested and they will be welcomed just like anyone else jumping into FOSS , prove yourself first and then get the respect you deserve .
Not the other way round .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real problem with to few women in FOSS is the same as in many other places.
Girls are mostly uninterested in computers in general and the inner workings in particular.
The solution isnt to fundamentally change the enviroment to be "girly" but to get more women interested in technology in general.
If the interest is there things sorts themselves out.
I havent ever seen a girl being welcomed with anything but open arms in my line of work (sysadmin).
They are judged by their knowledge and ability, nothing more nothing less.To single out this as a FOSS problem is just insane since the "problem" exists in technology in general and is not confined to open source.
The reason i write "problem" is that i dont see any defiances with people doing what interests them the most.
Get more women interested and they will be welcomed just like anyone else jumping into FOSS, prove yourself first and then get the respect you deserve.
Not the other way round.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722171</id>
	<title>Re:reports of ire and denial met with ire and deni</title>
	<author>stdarg</author>
	<datestamp>1255376160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> it's funny how defensive guys get when their sexism is pointed out to them.</p></div><p>"Begging the question" -- Have you heard of it? Most rational people get flustered when they are presented with a vociferous but illogical argument.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's funny how defensive guys get when their sexism is pointed out to them .
" Begging the question " -- Have you heard of it ?
Most rational people get flustered when they are presented with a vociferous but illogical argument .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> it's funny how defensive guys get when their sexism is pointed out to them.
"Begging the question" -- Have you heard of it?
Most rational people get flustered when they are presented with a vociferous but illogical argument.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720955</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723705</id>
	<title>Re:How is asking a woman out for a date sexist?</title>
	<author>tilandal</author>
	<datestamp>1255339560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suppose that is a valid question so I'll take a stab at answering.</p><p>Asking someone out on a date is not sexist if done in the correct context. What constitutes the correct context? The single biggest factor is there has to be a reasonable expectation that a date will really happen. What often happens is this:</p><p>"Oh wow, you're a girl?"</p><p>"Yes"</p><p>"Will you go out with me?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D"</p><p>*logs off*</p><p>The message this type of thing send out is 'I'm more interested in whats between your legs then what you may have to contribute'. I highly doubt any women are contributing to Linux in order to get asked out by random guys who may not even live on the same continent as them. When you are more interested in a persons gender then what they have to say that is sexism. I was playing an online game once when someone looked at my tag and asked "Are you a girl?" my reply was "Why would it matter?" He then goes on and on about how cool is is to meet a girl and how hes never met one that played computer games before. That kind of stuff gets old real quick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suppose that is a valid question so I 'll take a stab at answering.Asking someone out on a date is not sexist if done in the correct context .
What constitutes the correct context ?
The single biggest factor is there has to be a reasonable expectation that a date will really happen .
What often happens is this : " Oh wow , you 're a girl ?
" " Yes " " Will you go out with me ?
: D " * logs off * The message this type of thing send out is 'I 'm more interested in whats between your legs then what you may have to contribute' .
I highly doubt any women are contributing to Linux in order to get asked out by random guys who may not even live on the same continent as them .
When you are more interested in a persons gender then what they have to say that is sexism .
I was playing an online game once when someone looked at my tag and asked " Are you a girl ?
" my reply was " Why would it matter ?
" He then goes on and on about how cool is is to meet a girl and how hes never met one that played computer games before .
That kind of stuff gets old real quick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suppose that is a valid question so I'll take a stab at answering.Asking someone out on a date is not sexist if done in the correct context.
What constitutes the correct context?
The single biggest factor is there has to be a reasonable expectation that a date will really happen.
What often happens is this:"Oh wow, you're a girl?
""Yes""Will you go out with me?
:D"*logs off*The message this type of thing send out is 'I'm more interested in whats between your legs then what you may have to contribute'.
I highly doubt any women are contributing to Linux in order to get asked out by random guys who may not even live on the same continent as them.
When you are more interested in a persons gender then what they have to say that is sexism.
I was playing an online game once when someone looked at my tag and asked "Are you a girl?
" my reply was "Why would it matter?
" He then goes on and on about how cool is is to meet a girl and how hes never met one that played computer games before.
That kind of stuff gets old real quick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29732081</id>
	<title>What counts as sexism?</title>
	<author>foniksonik</author>
	<datestamp>1255449660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does using abusive language count? Is it okay for a man to call another man an aHole or a dildo or a fTard but not okay to call a woman a cWord or bWord or a twat? Yes it's abusive but is it sexist?</p><p>Do these verbal abuses stop people from participating in the FLOSS community? Maybe if they are consistently the target of such and from all directions... but is it sexist?</p><p>Is pornographic imagery sexist? If you believe that pornography is sexist then you'll also believe that the imagery is sexist, but is it really... adult entertainment targeted at adults which caters in the majority to it's largest demographic. Is heterosexual porn imagery also homosexualist... in that it is offensive to homosexuals?</p><p>I'd say no to all of the above... it's not sexist. In poor taste, complete wastes of resources and time and counter-productive yes but targeted at women in an attempt to preclude them from participating in the FLOSS community, no.</p><p>What would be sexist?</p><p>Establishing groups, events, conferences, or otherwise instrumental community building events and then not inviting women of note to join, attend, speak or generally participate... that would be sexism.</p><p>You can't equate personal attacks against individuals who happen to be of a particular group with institutional bigotry against that group. If anything it means that the institution in question simply has their fair share of bigots and that those who feel that this has no place in the community should shun those individuals who are being counter-productive.</p><p>However, a failure to shun them is not an indication of institutional bigotry itself - more an unwillingness of the community to self-police or to bring such personal issues into the authority or responsibility of the community members and rather focus of their intended goals and allow such problems to be worked out separately from the community in question.</p><p>Not all problems in a community should be policed by that community - ie: not all members with drug problems should be forced into rehab before being allowed to participate, not all members with bad credit should have to pay off their creditors, not all members who are not registered to vote must register, etc. etc. and not all sexist members should be required to give up their personal opinions. However - members should be encouraged to leave such matters out of community affairs if they do not want to be held accountable for the disruptions they create.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does using abusive language count ?
Is it okay for a man to call another man an aHole or a dildo or a fTard but not okay to call a woman a cWord or bWord or a twat ?
Yes it 's abusive but is it sexist ? Do these verbal abuses stop people from participating in the FLOSS community ?
Maybe if they are consistently the target of such and from all directions... but is it sexist ? Is pornographic imagery sexist ?
If you believe that pornography is sexist then you 'll also believe that the imagery is sexist , but is it really... adult entertainment targeted at adults which caters in the majority to it 's largest demographic .
Is heterosexual porn imagery also homosexualist... in that it is offensive to homosexuals ? I 'd say no to all of the above... it 's not sexist .
In poor taste , complete wastes of resources and time and counter-productive yes but targeted at women in an attempt to preclude them from participating in the FLOSS community , no.What would be sexist ? Establishing groups , events , conferences , or otherwise instrumental community building events and then not inviting women of note to join , attend , speak or generally participate... that would be sexism.You ca n't equate personal attacks against individuals who happen to be of a particular group with institutional bigotry against that group .
If anything it means that the institution in question simply has their fair share of bigots and that those who feel that this has no place in the community should shun those individuals who are being counter-productive.However , a failure to shun them is not an indication of institutional bigotry itself - more an unwillingness of the community to self-police or to bring such personal issues into the authority or responsibility of the community members and rather focus of their intended goals and allow such problems to be worked out separately from the community in question.Not all problems in a community should be policed by that community - ie : not all members with drug problems should be forced into rehab before being allowed to participate , not all members with bad credit should have to pay off their creditors , not all members who are not registered to vote must register , etc .
etc. and not all sexist members should be required to give up their personal opinions .
However - members should be encouraged to leave such matters out of community affairs if they do not want to be held accountable for the disruptions they create .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does using abusive language count?
Is it okay for a man to call another man an aHole or a dildo or a fTard but not okay to call a woman a cWord or bWord or a twat?
Yes it's abusive but is it sexist?Do these verbal abuses stop people from participating in the FLOSS community?
Maybe if they are consistently the target of such and from all directions... but is it sexist?Is pornographic imagery sexist?
If you believe that pornography is sexist then you'll also believe that the imagery is sexist, but is it really... adult entertainment targeted at adults which caters in the majority to it's largest demographic.
Is heterosexual porn imagery also homosexualist... in that it is offensive to homosexuals?I'd say no to all of the above... it's not sexist.
In poor taste, complete wastes of resources and time and counter-productive yes but targeted at women in an attempt to preclude them from participating in the FLOSS community, no.What would be sexist?Establishing groups, events, conferences, or otherwise instrumental community building events and then not inviting women of note to join, attend, speak or generally participate... that would be sexism.You can't equate personal attacks against individuals who happen to be of a particular group with institutional bigotry against that group.
If anything it means that the institution in question simply has their fair share of bigots and that those who feel that this has no place in the community should shun those individuals who are being counter-productive.However, a failure to shun them is not an indication of institutional bigotry itself - more an unwillingness of the community to self-police or to bring such personal issues into the authority or responsibility of the community members and rather focus of their intended goals and allow such problems to be worked out separately from the community in question.Not all problems in a community should be policed by that community - ie: not all members with drug problems should be forced into rehab before being allowed to participate, not all members with bad credit should have to pay off their creditors, not all members who are not registered to vote must register, etc.
etc. and not all sexist members should be required to give up their personal opinions.
However - members should be encouraged to leave such matters out of community affairs if they do not want to be held accountable for the disruptions they create.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722729</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255378620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>  It's not fun to be in that situation and, frankly, if I can't just relax and be a PERSON instead of potential sex to the people I'd be dealing with to get involved with a project... why would I want to be there?  It's just not worth it.</p></div><p>Then guess what, you can't work with straight guys (unless you are completely unattractive). I had a friend who once made the statement that guys are only friends with women they want to sleep with. That isn't entirely true, but it is very close to true. When I review the women friends I have made in my life, they fall into three categories: women I find attractive (or at least found attractive when we became friends), women I am/was forced to spend a large amount of time around do to some activity I wanted to do for other reasons, women who are close friends of my wife. Every woman in the first category is one who I would have slept with if circumstances had been different (I wasn't dating someone seriously/ married at the time, she wasn't dating someone seriously/married at the time). That is a fact of life, if you don't like it, sorry, that's the way it is.<br>
Of course what you said is like most "sexual harassment", if the woman thinks the guy is unattractive it is sexual harassment, if she thinks he is attractive it isn't.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not fun to be in that situation and , frankly , if I ca n't just relax and be a PERSON instead of potential sex to the people I 'd be dealing with to get involved with a project... why would I want to be there ?
It 's just not worth it.Then guess what , you ca n't work with straight guys ( unless you are completely unattractive ) .
I had a friend who once made the statement that guys are only friends with women they want to sleep with .
That is n't entirely true , but it is very close to true .
When I review the women friends I have made in my life , they fall into three categories : women I find attractive ( or at least found attractive when we became friends ) , women I am/was forced to spend a large amount of time around do to some activity I wanted to do for other reasons , women who are close friends of my wife .
Every woman in the first category is one who I would have slept with if circumstances had been different ( I was n't dating someone seriously/ married at the time , she was n't dating someone seriously/married at the time ) .
That is a fact of life , if you do n't like it , sorry , that 's the way it is .
Of course what you said is like most " sexual harassment " , if the woman thinks the guy is unattractive it is sexual harassment , if she thinks he is attractive it is n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  It's not fun to be in that situation and, frankly, if I can't just relax and be a PERSON instead of potential sex to the people I'd be dealing with to get involved with a project... why would I want to be there?
It's just not worth it.Then guess what, you can't work with straight guys (unless you are completely unattractive).
I had a friend who once made the statement that guys are only friends with women they want to sleep with.
That isn't entirely true, but it is very close to true.
When I review the women friends I have made in my life, they fall into three categories: women I find attractive (or at least found attractive when we became friends), women I am/was forced to spend a large amount of time around do to some activity I wanted to do for other reasons, women who are close friends of my wife.
Every woman in the first category is one who I would have slept with if circumstances had been different (I wasn't dating someone seriously/ married at the time, she wasn't dating someone seriously/married at the time).
That is a fact of life, if you don't like it, sorry, that's the way it is.
Of course what you said is like most "sexual harassment", if the woman thinks the guy is unattractive it is sexual harassment, if she thinks he is attractive it isn't.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29729933</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>revengebomber</author>
	<datestamp>1255433040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <b>Feminists can't take a joke.</b> The problem is not that feminists can't take a joke. (We can.) The problem is that you can't take feminists seriously.</p></div><p>I don't quite follow your logic. I don't see anything outright wrong with your claims here, but they don't seem to fit coherently.

It's hard not to sound like a troll saying this, but, "what?"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Feminists ca n't take a joke .
The problem is not that feminists ca n't take a joke .
( We can .
) The problem is that you ca n't take feminists seriously.I do n't quite follow your logic .
I do n't see anything outright wrong with your claims here , but they do n't seem to fit coherently .
It 's hard not to sound like a troll saying this , but , " what ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Feminists can't take a joke.
The problem is not that feminists can't take a joke.
(We can.
) The problem is that you can't take feminists seriously.I don't quite follow your logic.
I don't see anything outright wrong with your claims here, but they don't seem to fit coherently.
It's hard not to sound like a troll saying this, but, "what?
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29728019</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>ghostdoc</author>
	<datestamp>1255363740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>yep, it gets me thinking that women like to be paid to code</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>yep , it gets me thinking that women like to be paid to code</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yep, it gets me thinking that women like to be paid to code</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724335</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>DaveV1.0</author>
	<datestamp>1255342020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><ol><li>Feminists can take a joke, but are only when the butt of the joke is a man. Just look at greeting cards and television commercials. It is very hard to take seriously a group that claims to want equality, yet demands special treatment. It is  very hard to take seriously a group of women who get upset over the portrayal of women in ads but have no problem with men being portrayed the same way in ads.</li><li>Feminists apparently believe "Some girls, specifically us, don't like [X], so it must be completely wrong all the time with no exceptions ever, even when we are in the minority or are no even present." What is worse is that feminists are hypocrites. Feminists are against men-only anything. Let feminists hear of a men-only club, and soon you will have a protest; take, for example, the Augusta National Golf Club. Yet, they are perfectly okay with Shapes, a national chain of women-only gyms. Tell me, what would your reaction if you were told you could not join a gym because you are a woman?</li><li>Criticizing of feminism by men is a waste of time because it is seen by feminists as an invitation to verbal, and sometimes physical, abuse. From what I have seen, the general response to men criticizing feminism is to call the men names and belittling their opinion.</li><li>Feminists have no lives because they are so busy looking for some slight that they don't have time for a real life. You talk about cat-calls and being interrupted in meetings. Yet, I have seen and experienced feminists who don't understand that holding the door open for someone else as one enters or leaves a building is common courtesy and does not have misogynist undertones. Rather than say "Thank you", they will berate and insult a man is merely being polite. I have no doubt that the same people who interrupt you in meetings interrupt men as well. You need to stop worrying about other people's privilege and taking it away and work on increasing your own privilege through effort. And, I find it amusing when women decry the dearth of chivalric actions by men, when it was woman, specifically feminists, who killed such behavior.</li></ol><p>For the most part, men do not care if you work in this industry. But, we do care when take it as an insult to your gender when someone who is an ass to everyone is an ass to you. We do care when you feel that because you don't like something, no one else should be allowed to have or do that something. Stop acting like your feelings and desires override those of the men around you.</p><p>You say you want equality, well, equality is not "My opinion overrides the opinion of the men around me because I am a woman and they are men." If you want equality act like it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Feminists can take a joke , but are only when the butt of the joke is a man .
Just look at greeting cards and television commercials .
It is very hard to take seriously a group that claims to want equality , yet demands special treatment .
It is very hard to take seriously a group of women who get upset over the portrayal of women in ads but have no problem with men being portrayed the same way in ads.Feminists apparently believe " Some girls , specifically us , do n't like [ X ] , so it must be completely wrong all the time with no exceptions ever , even when we are in the minority or are no even present .
" What is worse is that feminists are hypocrites .
Feminists are against men-only anything .
Let feminists hear of a men-only club , and soon you will have a protest ; take , for example , the Augusta National Golf Club .
Yet , they are perfectly okay with Shapes , a national chain of women-only gyms .
Tell me , what would your reaction if you were told you could not join a gym because you are a woman ? Criticizing of feminism by men is a waste of time because it is seen by feminists as an invitation to verbal , and sometimes physical , abuse .
From what I have seen , the general response to men criticizing feminism is to call the men names and belittling their opinion.Feminists have no lives because they are so busy looking for some slight that they do n't have time for a real life .
You talk about cat-calls and being interrupted in meetings .
Yet , I have seen and experienced feminists who do n't understand that holding the door open for someone else as one enters or leaves a building is common courtesy and does not have misogynist undertones .
Rather than say " Thank you " , they will berate and insult a man is merely being polite .
I have no doubt that the same people who interrupt you in meetings interrupt men as well .
You need to stop worrying about other people 's privilege and taking it away and work on increasing your own privilege through effort .
And , I find it amusing when women decry the dearth of chivalric actions by men , when it was woman , specifically feminists , who killed such behavior.For the most part , men do not care if you work in this industry .
But , we do care when take it as an insult to your gender when someone who is an ass to everyone is an ass to you .
We do care when you feel that because you do n't like something , no one else should be allowed to have or do that something .
Stop acting like your feelings and desires override those of the men around you.You say you want equality , well , equality is not " My opinion overrides the opinion of the men around me because I am a woman and they are men .
" If you want equality act like it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Feminists can take a joke, but are only when the butt of the joke is a man.
Just look at greeting cards and television commercials.
It is very hard to take seriously a group that claims to want equality, yet demands special treatment.
It is  very hard to take seriously a group of women who get upset over the portrayal of women in ads but have no problem with men being portrayed the same way in ads.Feminists apparently believe "Some girls, specifically us, don't like [X], so it must be completely wrong all the time with no exceptions ever, even when we are in the minority or are no even present.
" What is worse is that feminists are hypocrites.
Feminists are against men-only anything.
Let feminists hear of a men-only club, and soon you will have a protest; take, for example, the Augusta National Golf Club.
Yet, they are perfectly okay with Shapes, a national chain of women-only gyms.
Tell me, what would your reaction if you were told you could not join a gym because you are a woman?Criticizing of feminism by men is a waste of time because it is seen by feminists as an invitation to verbal, and sometimes physical, abuse.
From what I have seen, the general response to men criticizing feminism is to call the men names and belittling their opinion.Feminists have no lives because they are so busy looking for some slight that they don't have time for a real life.
You talk about cat-calls and being interrupted in meetings.
Yet, I have seen and experienced feminists who don't understand that holding the door open for someone else as one enters or leaves a building is common courtesy and does not have misogynist undertones.
Rather than say "Thank you", they will berate and insult a man is merely being polite.
I have no doubt that the same people who interrupt you in meetings interrupt men as well.
You need to stop worrying about other people's privilege and taking it away and work on increasing your own privilege through effort.
And, I find it amusing when women decry the dearth of chivalric actions by men, when it was woman, specifically feminists, who killed such behavior.For the most part, men do not care if you work in this industry.
But, we do care when take it as an insult to your gender when someone who is an ass to everyone is an ass to you.
We do care when you feel that because you don't like something, no one else should be allowed to have or do that something.
Stop acting like your feelings and desires override those of the men around you.You say you want equality, well, equality is not "My opinion overrides the opinion of the men around me because I am a woman and they are men.
" If you want equality act like it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724733</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>vadim\_t</author>
	<datestamp>1255343700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>maleness is still the default, the essential; a woman's perspective is considered especially different from a man's but the reverse is never true.</p></div></blockquote><p>In programming, gender should be irrelevant. If you weren't specifically talking about gender issues I wouldn't have a clue which you are. I don't look at usernames when writing replies.</p><p>I've seen code written by both men and women and I couldn't tell who wrote a piece of code.</p><blockquote><div><p>Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet</p></div></blockquote><p>Why? I know people make stupid jokes ocassionally. I don't like them either, so I mod them down.</p><p>But 99\% of the discussion isn't like that, and stupid jokes are that, stupid, and not the main content of the site.</p><blockquote><div><p>Feminists can't take a joke. The problem is not that feminists can't take a joke. (We can.) The problem is that you can't take feminists seriously.</p></div></blockquote><p>Feminism, IMO, doesn't belong in programming. Neither does whatever word is the reverse of that, or any kind of gender issue, or anything related to where the coder was born, their appearance, genetics, non-programming related preferences and such things in general.</p><p>Programming is about code. Who are you, what you look like, and what kind of hormones you have in your blood are irrelevant.</p><blockquote><div><p>Criticizing misogyny is a waste of time. This might actually be true here.</p></div></blockquote><p>I don't disagree the presentation was tasteless. I didn't like it either. I agree it was a very bad idea. But to attempt to extrapolate that to FOSS in general is IMO excessive (where quality of contribution is what matters), and to make it a big issue is counterproductive.</p><p>That one project has a moron in an important position doesn't automatically say anything about the rest of them.</p><blockquote><div><p>Feminists have no lives.</p></div></blockquote><p>Two things about this. First, for the purposes of contributing to a software project, you're not a woman and I'm not a man: we're both programmers and that is gender, age and species neutral. My contributions are only more relevant than your if they're technically better.</p><blockquote><div><p>I just have to endure cat calls from sleazy strangers on my walk to work, get interrupted in meetings (and then get pigeonholed as a bitch for standing up for myself), and frequently have to put up with people who are blind to their own privilege. I really, really wish that my having a life would make this all stop.</p></div></blockquote><p>I can understand it's got to be annoying. But I've got to deal with nonsense every day as well, you know. People called me many things to my face. People also interrupted me at meetings. But I don't bring those issues to a software project; I bring my code.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>maleness is still the default , the essential ; a woman 's perspective is considered especially different from a man 's but the reverse is never true.In programming , gender should be irrelevant .
If you were n't specifically talking about gender issues I would n't have a clue which you are .
I do n't look at usernames when writing replies.I 've seen code written by both men and women and I could n't tell who wrote a piece of code.Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the InternetWhy ?
I know people make stupid jokes ocassionally .
I do n't like them either , so I mod them down.But 99 \ % of the discussion is n't like that , and stupid jokes are that , stupid , and not the main content of the site.Feminists ca n't take a joke .
The problem is not that feminists ca n't take a joke .
( We can .
) The problem is that you ca n't take feminists seriously.Feminism , IMO , does n't belong in programming .
Neither does whatever word is the reverse of that , or any kind of gender issue , or anything related to where the coder was born , their appearance , genetics , non-programming related preferences and such things in general.Programming is about code .
Who are you , what you look like , and what kind of hormones you have in your blood are irrelevant.Criticizing misogyny is a waste of time .
This might actually be true here.I do n't disagree the presentation was tasteless .
I did n't like it either .
I agree it was a very bad idea .
But to attempt to extrapolate that to FOSS in general is IMO excessive ( where quality of contribution is what matters ) , and to make it a big issue is counterproductive.That one project has a moron in an important position does n't automatically say anything about the rest of them.Feminists have no lives.Two things about this .
First , for the purposes of contributing to a software project , you 're not a woman and I 'm not a man : we 're both programmers and that is gender , age and species neutral .
My contributions are only more relevant than your if they 're technically better.I just have to endure cat calls from sleazy strangers on my walk to work , get interrupted in meetings ( and then get pigeonholed as a bitch for standing up for myself ) , and frequently have to put up with people who are blind to their own privilege .
I really , really wish that my having a life would make this all stop.I can understand it 's got to be annoying .
But I 've got to deal with nonsense every day as well , you know .
People called me many things to my face .
People also interrupted me at meetings .
But I do n't bring those issues to a software project ; I bring my code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>maleness is still the default, the essential; a woman's perspective is considered especially different from a man's but the reverse is never true.In programming, gender should be irrelevant.
If you weren't specifically talking about gender issues I wouldn't have a clue which you are.
I don't look at usernames when writing replies.I've seen code written by both men and women and I couldn't tell who wrote a piece of code.Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the InternetWhy?
I know people make stupid jokes ocassionally.
I don't like them either, so I mod them down.But 99\% of the discussion isn't like that, and stupid jokes are that, stupid, and not the main content of the site.Feminists can't take a joke.
The problem is not that feminists can't take a joke.
(We can.
) The problem is that you can't take feminists seriously.Feminism, IMO, doesn't belong in programming.
Neither does whatever word is the reverse of that, or any kind of gender issue, or anything related to where the coder was born, their appearance, genetics, non-programming related preferences and such things in general.Programming is about code.
Who are you, what you look like, and what kind of hormones you have in your blood are irrelevant.Criticizing misogyny is a waste of time.
This might actually be true here.I don't disagree the presentation was tasteless.
I didn't like it either.
I agree it was a very bad idea.
But to attempt to extrapolate that to FOSS in general is IMO excessive (where quality of contribution is what matters), and to make it a big issue is counterproductive.That one project has a moron in an important position doesn't automatically say anything about the rest of them.Feminists have no lives.Two things about this.
First, for the purposes of contributing to a software project, you're not a woman and I'm not a man: we're both programmers and that is gender, age and species neutral.
My contributions are only more relevant than your if they're technically better.I just have to endure cat calls from sleazy strangers on my walk to work, get interrupted in meetings (and then get pigeonholed as a bitch for standing up for myself), and frequently have to put up with people who are blind to their own privilege.
I really, really wish that my having a life would make this all stop.I can understand it's got to be annoying.
But I've got to deal with nonsense every day as well, you know.
People called me many things to my face.
People also interrupted me at meetings.
But I don't bring those issues to a software project; I bring my code.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721327</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>malkavian</author>
	<datestamp>1255373220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, it makes me think that women don't, by and large, go in for the hardcore coding section that makes up the broad majority of FOSS.  Pay them money to do a job, and they'll happily join commercial software (where design is often as well resourced as the hard core dev work).<br>They tend to prefer the arty side (UI design, user testing etc) that lends itself to the predominantly feminine preferences (females make better communicators, by and large).<br>There are hardcore women coders out there, and they're as spectacular as the guys, where they feel that's what they want to do.. Just the majority of women don't want to be tied to a computer terminal.<br>This whole article seems to be based on the words of a few people, and blown out of all proportion.<br>Yes, there's sexism everywhere.  On BOTH sides.  That's life.<br>I'm wondering why, when there's a feminist rant about men being evil, it's acceptable and everyone should rally round.  When it's a guy saying exactly the same, but about women, it's evil (though MikeeUSA is WAY over the top)..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , it makes me think that women do n't , by and large , go in for the hardcore coding section that makes up the broad majority of FOSS .
Pay them money to do a job , and they 'll happily join commercial software ( where design is often as well resourced as the hard core dev work ) .They tend to prefer the arty side ( UI design , user testing etc ) that lends itself to the predominantly feminine preferences ( females make better communicators , by and large ) .There are hardcore women coders out there , and they 're as spectacular as the guys , where they feel that 's what they want to do.. Just the majority of women do n't want to be tied to a computer terminal.This whole article seems to be based on the words of a few people , and blown out of all proportion.Yes , there 's sexism everywhere .
On BOTH sides .
That 's life.I 'm wondering why , when there 's a feminist rant about men being evil , it 's acceptable and everyone should rally round .
When it 's a guy saying exactly the same , but about women , it 's evil ( though MikeeUSA is WAY over the top ) . .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, it makes me think that women don't, by and large, go in for the hardcore coding section that makes up the broad majority of FOSS.
Pay them money to do a job, and they'll happily join commercial software (where design is often as well resourced as the hard core dev work).They tend to prefer the arty side (UI design, user testing etc) that lends itself to the predominantly feminine preferences (females make better communicators, by and large).There are hardcore women coders out there, and they're as spectacular as the guys, where they feel that's what they want to do.. Just the majority of women don't want to be tied to a computer terminal.This whole article seems to be based on the words of a few people, and blown out of all proportion.Yes, there's sexism everywhere.
On BOTH sides.
That's life.I'm wondering why, when there's a feminist rant about men being evil, it's acceptable and everyone should rally round.
When it's a guy saying exactly the same, but about women, it's evil (though MikeeUSA is WAY over the top)..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721419</id>
	<title>Sexism in FOSS met with ire and denial?</title>
	<author>homesnatch</author>
	<datestamp>1255373520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>First of all...  Shut up!  You are a bozo! <br>
Second of all...  There's no sexism in FOSS... <br>
<br> <br>
Did I cover everything?</htmltext>
<tokenext>First of all... Shut up !
You are a bozo !
Second of all... There 's no sexism in FOSS.. . Did I cover everything ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First of all...  Shut up!
You are a bozo!
Second of all...  There's no sexism in FOSS... 
 
Did I cover everything?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721405</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255373520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm thinking "Women like money".</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm thinking " Women like money " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm thinking "Women like money".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724055</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255340760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You know a lot of what you perceive as sexism may be a reaction to whininess. Try acting less whiny and watch the 'sexist opposition' to you disappear (really, everyone gets interrupted in meetings. Its not sexism).</htmltext>
<tokenext>You know a lot of what you perceive as sexism may be a reaction to whininess .
Try acting less whiny and watch the 'sexist opposition ' to you disappear ( really , everyone gets interrupted in meetings .
Its not sexism ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know a lot of what you perceive as sexism may be a reaction to whininess.
Try acting less whiny and watch the 'sexist opposition' to you disappear (really, everyone gets interrupted in meetings.
Its not sexism).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720795</id>
	<title>Re:Here's two</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Ever heard of BitchX?  How about etherape?</p></div><p>BitchX is an IRC client and the word "Bitch" in the name refers to "Bitching" as in nagging, which is related to conversating which reflects back to IRC. It has nothing to do with women, since both men and women can bitch about something, and for a woman to think that it does makes her a self centred bitch -- this time in exactly the way she thinks.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ever heard of BitchX ?
How about etherape ? BitchX is an IRC client and the word " Bitch " in the name refers to " Bitching " as in nagging , which is related to conversating which reflects back to IRC .
It has nothing to do with women , since both men and women can bitch about something , and for a woman to think that it does makes her a self centred bitch -- this time in exactly the way she thinks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ever heard of BitchX?
How about etherape?BitchX is an IRC client and the word "Bitch" in the name refers to "Bitching" as in nagging, which is related to conversating which reflects back to IRC.
It has nothing to do with women, since both men and women can bitch about something, and for a woman to think that it does makes her a self centred bitch -- this time in exactly the way she thinks.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720527</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724835</id>
	<title>The data is almost *too* strong.</title>
	<author>pugugly</author>
	<datestamp>1255344180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went back and read the article and it' s predecessor, and indeed thought the faq he pointed to was interesting but . .<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.I think I have a certain degree of issue with the underlying assumption that the lack of a reasonable distribution implies sexism.</p><p>1.5\% *is* disturbing if it is the result of sexism. But . . .</p><p>I don't have the records of what truly sexist percentages were in various industries - but my vague anecdotal recollections were that they were as low as 10\% et al in the 80's</p><p>1.5\% seems to me to be *too* strong a bias to be explained primarily by sexism. It may be a contributing factor, but without knowing what it's contributing to, it does very little good to be concerned about any sexism because trying to measure that effect without a proper understanding of the underlying primary effect may be like trying to measure which leg of a table is off in the midst of a magnitude 6 earthquake.</p><p>There may be a number of explanations, ranging from it turning out that *yes* only a certain type of woman is being taught the secret handshake, to it simply turning out that working on code for no pay isn't something women like to do. But the article seems to be begging the question by asserting only one explanation without any definitive support for it.</p><p>Pug</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went back and read the article and it ' s predecessor , and indeed thought the faq he pointed to was interesting but .
. .I think I have a certain degree of issue with the underlying assumption that the lack of a reasonable distribution implies sexism.1.5 \ % * is * disturbing if it is the result of sexism .
But .
. .I do n't have the records of what truly sexist percentages were in various industries - but my vague anecdotal recollections were that they were as low as 10 \ % et al in the 80's1.5 \ % seems to me to be * too * strong a bias to be explained primarily by sexism .
It may be a contributing factor , but without knowing what it 's contributing to , it does very little good to be concerned about any sexism because trying to measure that effect without a proper understanding of the underlying primary effect may be like trying to measure which leg of a table is off in the midst of a magnitude 6 earthquake.There may be a number of explanations , ranging from it turning out that * yes * only a certain type of woman is being taught the secret handshake , to it simply turning out that working on code for no pay is n't something women like to do .
But the article seems to be begging the question by asserting only one explanation without any definitive support for it.Pug</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went back and read the article and it' s predecessor, and indeed thought the faq he pointed to was interesting but .
. .I think I have a certain degree of issue with the underlying assumption that the lack of a reasonable distribution implies sexism.1.5\% *is* disturbing if it is the result of sexism.
But .
. .I don't have the records of what truly sexist percentages were in various industries - but my vague anecdotal recollections were that they were as low as 10\% et al in the 80's1.5\% seems to me to be *too* strong a bias to be explained primarily by sexism.
It may be a contributing factor, but without knowing what it's contributing to, it does very little good to be concerned about any sexism because trying to measure that effect without a proper understanding of the underlying primary effect may be like trying to measure which leg of a table is off in the midst of a magnitude 6 earthquake.There may be a number of explanations, ranging from it turning out that *yes* only a certain type of woman is being taught the secret handshake, to it simply turning out that working on code for no pay isn't something women like to do.
But the article seems to be begging the question by asserting only one explanation without any definitive support for it.Pug</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720463</id>
	<title>Words stuffed into our mouths</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255370040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It just seems that now adays everything is completely overblown.  I think that a huge majority of men in this country aren't sexist or racist, I think they just want to get to the end of the work day.  I don't think anyone now adays intentionally tries to discriminate against anyone.   There is so much that is left to interpretation vs intention.</p><p>If someone wants to protest something or discuss an issue thats their right, but it just seems like its no longer my right to want to just go about my business unconcerned.</p><p>It justs seems like its a "Your either with us or against us" attitude</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It just seems that now adays everything is completely overblown .
I think that a huge majority of men in this country are n't sexist or racist , I think they just want to get to the end of the work day .
I do n't think anyone now adays intentionally tries to discriminate against anyone .
There is so much that is left to interpretation vs intention.If someone wants to protest something or discuss an issue thats their right , but it just seems like its no longer my right to want to just go about my business unconcerned.It justs seems like its a " Your either with us or against us " attitude</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It just seems that now adays everything is completely overblown.
I think that a huge majority of men in this country aren't sexist or racist, I think they just want to get to the end of the work day.
I don't think anyone now adays intentionally tries to discriminate against anyone.
There is so much that is left to interpretation vs intention.If someone wants to protest something or discuss an issue thats their right, but it just seems like its no longer my right to want to just go about my business unconcerned.It justs seems like its a "Your either with us or against us" attitude</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720781</id>
	<title>Re:Here's two</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hell with that, there's a pentest suite for python called <a href="http://brutalpenetration.org/" title="brutalpenetration.org" rel="nofollow">brutal penetration</a> [brutalpenetration.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hell with that , there 's a pentest suite for python called brutal penetration [ brutalpenetration.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hell with that, there's a pentest suite for python called brutal penetration [brutalpenetration.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720527</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721429</id>
	<title>A dude-centered environment</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255373580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A lot of people presume that the term "sexism" refers solely to the intentional denigration and/or repression of women, and using that definition it is easy to see why people fail to identify the sexist elements of FOSS culture and react so vehemently to accusations that it exists and is widespread.  It is unlikely that anyone in the FOSS world wants there to be fewer women involved.</p><p>What is indisputably the case is that the culture is male-oriented.  Whether this is due to explicitly exclusionary practices or more benign gender-oriented predisposition is irrelevant.  When 98.5\% of the members of a population are male, the atmosphere is inevitably male-centric and therefore, like a locker room, inhospitable to varying degrees to female participants.  RMS's speech and the "Perform like a pr0n star" presentation are clear evidence of this.  Mean-spirited?  Probably not.  Inappropriate and potentially offensive in light of current workplace behavioral norms?  Definitely.  It is difficult (and counterproductive) to argue that these are isolated incidents which do not reflect at least some aspects of the FOSS culture as a whole.  These are FOSS leaders that made these presentations - they have to reflect to some degree the mores of the majority of FOSS participants.  Therefore while FOSS may not be sexist in the sense defined at the top of this post, it is certainly sexist with regards to its insensitivity to the POV of women involved in the movement.  And how could it not be?  It is overwhelmingly male.</p><p>Rather than attacking the author of the article, who's actual arguments are admittedly weak (asking girls out on dates is totally natural), perhaps the community should solicit the opinions of female FOSS developers and establish a dialogue to find out a) why there are so few women and b) what the FOSS community can do to make the movement more hospitable and enticing to women.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of people presume that the term " sexism " refers solely to the intentional denigration and/or repression of women , and using that definition it is easy to see why people fail to identify the sexist elements of FOSS culture and react so vehemently to accusations that it exists and is widespread .
It is unlikely that anyone in the FOSS world wants there to be fewer women involved.What is indisputably the case is that the culture is male-oriented .
Whether this is due to explicitly exclusionary practices or more benign gender-oriented predisposition is irrelevant .
When 98.5 \ % of the members of a population are male , the atmosphere is inevitably male-centric and therefore , like a locker room , inhospitable to varying degrees to female participants .
RMS 's speech and the " Perform like a pr0n star " presentation are clear evidence of this .
Mean-spirited ? Probably not .
Inappropriate and potentially offensive in light of current workplace behavioral norms ?
Definitely. It is difficult ( and counterproductive ) to argue that these are isolated incidents which do not reflect at least some aspects of the FOSS culture as a whole .
These are FOSS leaders that made these presentations - they have to reflect to some degree the mores of the majority of FOSS participants .
Therefore while FOSS may not be sexist in the sense defined at the top of this post , it is certainly sexist with regards to its insensitivity to the POV of women involved in the movement .
And how could it not be ?
It is overwhelmingly male.Rather than attacking the author of the article , who 's actual arguments are admittedly weak ( asking girls out on dates is totally natural ) , perhaps the community should solicit the opinions of female FOSS developers and establish a dialogue to find out a ) why there are so few women and b ) what the FOSS community can do to make the movement more hospitable and enticing to women .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of people presume that the term "sexism" refers solely to the intentional denigration and/or repression of women, and using that definition it is easy to see why people fail to identify the sexist elements of FOSS culture and react so vehemently to accusations that it exists and is widespread.
It is unlikely that anyone in the FOSS world wants there to be fewer women involved.What is indisputably the case is that the culture is male-oriented.
Whether this is due to explicitly exclusionary practices or more benign gender-oriented predisposition is irrelevant.
When 98.5\% of the members of a population are male, the atmosphere is inevitably male-centric and therefore, like a locker room, inhospitable to varying degrees to female participants.
RMS's speech and the "Perform like a pr0n star" presentation are clear evidence of this.
Mean-spirited?  Probably not.
Inappropriate and potentially offensive in light of current workplace behavioral norms?
Definitely.  It is difficult (and counterproductive) to argue that these are isolated incidents which do not reflect at least some aspects of the FOSS culture as a whole.
These are FOSS leaders that made these presentations - they have to reflect to some degree the mores of the majority of FOSS participants.
Therefore while FOSS may not be sexist in the sense defined at the top of this post, it is certainly sexist with regards to its insensitivity to the POV of women involved in the movement.
And how could it not be?
It is overwhelmingly male.Rather than attacking the author of the article, who's actual arguments are admittedly weak (asking girls out on dates is totally natural), perhaps the community should solicit the opinions of female FOSS developers and establish a dialogue to find out a) why there are so few women and b) what the FOSS community can do to make the movement more hospitable and enticing to women.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722565</id>
	<title>Re:How is asking a woman out for a date sexist?</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1255377900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They handle every subject : <a href="http://www.xkcd.com/642/" title="xkcd.com">http://www.xkcd.com/642/</a> [xkcd.com]<br>Even their subject is accurate.<br>And I am aiming for 'sad but true' mod points.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They handle every subject : http : //www.xkcd.com/642/ [ xkcd.com ] Even their subject is accurate.And I am aiming for 'sad but true ' mod points .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They handle every subject : http://www.xkcd.com/642/ [xkcd.com]Even their subject is accurate.And I am aiming for 'sad but true' mod points.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720897</id>
	<title>I predict....</title>
	<author>tilandal</author>
	<datestamp>1255371900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that this 'discussion' will pretty much be the embodiment of the point Bryce was trying to make in his article. I look forward to reading page after page of how women are too sensitive, or aren't dedicated enough, or can't perform to the level of men, or can't respond to criticism, or should just hide the fact that they are women.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that this 'discussion ' will pretty much be the embodiment of the point Bryce was trying to make in his article .
I look forward to reading page after page of how women are too sensitive , or are n't dedicated enough , or ca n't perform to the level of men , or ca n't respond to criticism , or should just hide the fact that they are women .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that this 'discussion' will pretty much be the embodiment of the point Bryce was trying to make in his article.
I look forward to reading page after page of how women are too sensitive, or aren't dedicated enough, or can't perform to the level of men, or can't respond to criticism, or should just hide the fact that they are women.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720871</id>
	<title>Worthless article</title>
	<author>fiannaFailMan</author>
	<datestamp>1255371780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not one specific case of sexism was described in that blog post. I'm damned if I know what this writer is talking about.</p><p>I think a much bigger problem, from the point of view of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/., is racism. As soon as an Indian or Chinese technical achievement is mentioned around here, the jokes start flooding in about curry and Chinese food and the way those people talk funny. It's as if the achievements of the Apollo program are almost of religious significance, but India launching satellites is considered a big joke. I wonder how much laughing these racists will be doing when a Taikonaut walks on the moon while America goes bankrupt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not one specific case of sexism was described in that blog post .
I 'm damned if I know what this writer is talking about.I think a much bigger problem , from the point of view of /. , is racism .
As soon as an Indian or Chinese technical achievement is mentioned around here , the jokes start flooding in about curry and Chinese food and the way those people talk funny .
It 's as if the achievements of the Apollo program are almost of religious significance , but India launching satellites is considered a big joke .
I wonder how much laughing these racists will be doing when a Taikonaut walks on the moon while America goes bankrupt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not one specific case of sexism was described in that blog post.
I'm damned if I know what this writer is talking about.I think a much bigger problem, from the point of view of /., is racism.
As soon as an Indian or Chinese technical achievement is mentioned around here, the jokes start flooding in about curry and Chinese food and the way those people talk funny.
It's as if the achievements of the Apollo program are almost of religious significance, but India launching satellites is considered a big joke.
I wonder how much laughing these racists will be doing when a Taikonaut walks on the moon while America goes bankrupt.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721197</id>
	<title>FOSS sexism is laughable concept</title>
	<author>Money for Nothin'</author>
	<datestamp>1255372860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FOSS is done primarily by male geeks in their early 20s; guys who all too often will graduate college as frustrated virgins.</p><p>What makes anybody think they would be opposed to the inclusion of *more* women into their lives?  Perhaps in large part for self-serving reasons, but so what?  The same is true of any other area of society.</p><p>I, for one, would have loved to have more girls in my CS courses (2 of which had no girls at all), for the chance to meet them...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FOSS is done primarily by male geeks in their early 20s ; guys who all too often will graduate college as frustrated virgins.What makes anybody think they would be opposed to the inclusion of * more * women into their lives ?
Perhaps in large part for self-serving reasons , but so what ?
The same is true of any other area of society.I , for one , would have loved to have more girls in my CS courses ( 2 of which had no girls at all ) , for the chance to meet them.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FOSS is done primarily by male geeks in their early 20s; guys who all too often will graduate college as frustrated virgins.What makes anybody think they would be opposed to the inclusion of *more* women into their lives?
Perhaps in large part for self-serving reasons, but so what?
The same is true of any other area of society.I, for one, would have loved to have more girls in my CS courses (2 of which had no girls at all), for the chance to meet them...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722403</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1255377180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I take that whole thing as being quite positive.  After all, women are only 52\% of the population.  Managing to talk and only offend or alienate 52\% of the potential audience is probably a record for RMS.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I take that whole thing as being quite positive .
After all , women are only 52 \ % of the population .
Managing to talk and only offend or alienate 52 \ % of the potential audience is probably a record for RMS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I take that whole thing as being quite positive.
After all, women are only 52\% of the population.
Managing to talk and only offend or alienate 52\% of the potential audience is probably a record for RMS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721515</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255373880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try to see that experience from a woman's point of view.  Imagine if you were working in a group of 98.5\% gay men (or straight women if you're a gay man)... and they asked you out.  A lot.  Enough to interfere with your work or participation.</p><p>Some guy asks me out while I'm trying to focus on something.  First, I have to interrupt whatever I'm working on or thinking about to deal with this intrusion that shouldn't have happened in the first place.  Then I have to respond.  There's a lot of pressure right there.  How's he going to react if I say no?  Attack me in some way?  That happens a LOT. You say no to some guy and suddenly you're this bitch he hates and constantly talks bad about.  Does he try to sabotage your work, argue against your patches, refuse to consider your ideas... because he hates you for rejecting him?  If he doesn't turn hostile, will he just get distant and prefer to avoid or ignore me making it awkward for me to participate?  Will he go the other way and subject me to all those meaningful looks, stares, sighs, etc?  If, for some strange reason, I say yes... then we stop seeing each other, does the above happen then?  Does someone else figure because I said yes to that guy I'll say yes to him and start the cycle over?  It's unprofessional and unpleasant to have to deal with.</p><p>If I'm writing code, doing network admin or even just re-capping a motherboard... I shouldn't have to deal with other people pushing their romantic interest on me.  It gets VERY old, VERY fast.  ESPECIALLY when it happens a lot.  You get to the point where you're just sick of it and disgusted with the people who do it and don't want to be near them.  I just want to do the work, why should I have to deal with that sort of thing just because I was born with ovaries?</p><p>Never mind the patronizing comments from guys who don't know a NOP from a POP, an #ifdef from an #include or a diode from a resistor... but either want to impress you or can't stand the idea that you might just have a clue.  It's not fun to be in that situation and, frankly, if I can't just relax and be a PERSON instead of potential sex to the people I'd be dealing with to get involved with a project... why would I want to be there?  It's just not worth it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try to see that experience from a woman 's point of view .
Imagine if you were working in a group of 98.5 \ % gay men ( or straight women if you 're a gay man ) ... and they asked you out .
A lot .
Enough to interfere with your work or participation.Some guy asks me out while I 'm trying to focus on something .
First , I have to interrupt whatever I 'm working on or thinking about to deal with this intrusion that should n't have happened in the first place .
Then I have to respond .
There 's a lot of pressure right there .
How 's he going to react if I say no ?
Attack me in some way ?
That happens a LOT .
You say no to some guy and suddenly you 're this bitch he hates and constantly talks bad about .
Does he try to sabotage your work , argue against your patches , refuse to consider your ideas... because he hates you for rejecting him ?
If he does n't turn hostile , will he just get distant and prefer to avoid or ignore me making it awkward for me to participate ?
Will he go the other way and subject me to all those meaningful looks , stares , sighs , etc ?
If , for some strange reason , I say yes... then we stop seeing each other , does the above happen then ?
Does someone else figure because I said yes to that guy I 'll say yes to him and start the cycle over ?
It 's unprofessional and unpleasant to have to deal with.If I 'm writing code , doing network admin or even just re-capping a motherboard... I should n't have to deal with other people pushing their romantic interest on me .
It gets VERY old , VERY fast .
ESPECIALLY when it happens a lot .
You get to the point where you 're just sick of it and disgusted with the people who do it and do n't want to be near them .
I just want to do the work , why should I have to deal with that sort of thing just because I was born with ovaries ? Never mind the patronizing comments from guys who do n't know a NOP from a POP , an # ifdef from an # include or a diode from a resistor... but either want to impress you or ca n't stand the idea that you might just have a clue .
It 's not fun to be in that situation and , frankly , if I ca n't just relax and be a PERSON instead of potential sex to the people I 'd be dealing with to get involved with a project... why would I want to be there ?
It 's just not worth it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try to see that experience from a woman's point of view.
Imagine if you were working in a group of 98.5\% gay men (or straight women if you're a gay man)... and they asked you out.
A lot.
Enough to interfere with your work or participation.Some guy asks me out while I'm trying to focus on something.
First, I have to interrupt whatever I'm working on or thinking about to deal with this intrusion that shouldn't have happened in the first place.
Then I have to respond.
There's a lot of pressure right there.
How's he going to react if I say no?
Attack me in some way?
That happens a LOT.
You say no to some guy and suddenly you're this bitch he hates and constantly talks bad about.
Does he try to sabotage your work, argue against your patches, refuse to consider your ideas... because he hates you for rejecting him?
If he doesn't turn hostile, will he just get distant and prefer to avoid or ignore me making it awkward for me to participate?
Will he go the other way and subject me to all those meaningful looks, stares, sighs, etc?
If, for some strange reason, I say yes... then we stop seeing each other, does the above happen then?
Does someone else figure because I said yes to that guy I'll say yes to him and start the cycle over?
It's unprofessional and unpleasant to have to deal with.If I'm writing code, doing network admin or even just re-capping a motherboard... I shouldn't have to deal with other people pushing their romantic interest on me.
It gets VERY old, VERY fast.
ESPECIALLY when it happens a lot.
You get to the point where you're just sick of it and disgusted with the people who do it and don't want to be near them.
I just want to do the work, why should I have to deal with that sort of thing just because I was born with ovaries?Never mind the patronizing comments from guys who don't know a NOP from a POP, an #ifdef from an #include or a diode from a resistor... but either want to impress you or can't stand the idea that you might just have a clue.
It's not fun to be in that situation and, frankly, if I can't just relax and be a PERSON instead of potential sex to the people I'd be dealing with to get involved with a project... why would I want to be there?
It's just not worth it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725623</id>
	<title>WTF ?</title>
	<author>smoker2</author>
	<datestamp>1255347840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Over 690 comments at time of writing. Yet the dire state of SSL gets about 200 comments. Are there any geeks left on this site ? Who gives a flying oriental fuck about "the state of sexism in the united states" or even elsewhere. I have no problem with women, most people I know have no problem with women. People are people. So explain the fuss ? Somebody needs a platform ? Don't waste my time !</htmltext>
<tokenext>Over 690 comments at time of writing .
Yet the dire state of SSL gets about 200 comments .
Are there any geeks left on this site ?
Who gives a flying oriental fuck about " the state of sexism in the united states " or even elsewhere .
I have no problem with women , most people I know have no problem with women .
People are people .
So explain the fuss ?
Somebody needs a platform ?
Do n't waste my time !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Over 690 comments at time of writing.
Yet the dire state of SSL gets about 200 comments.
Are there any geeks left on this site ?
Who gives a flying oriental fuck about "the state of sexism in the united states" or even elsewhere.
I have no problem with women, most people I know have no problem with women.
People are people.
So explain the fuss ?
Somebody needs a platform ?
Don't waste my time !</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724207</id>
	<title>Anonymous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255341420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dear god, why are there so many comments on this issue?  I have never even so much as THOUGHT about FOSS possibly being sexist in the slightest way, yet apparently it is some kind of big deal.  If women want to join the FOSS community, fine, I have no problem with that, if they don't, fine, I have no problem with that either.  But honestly it doesn't seem like a big deal to me at all, it's not like FOSS is advertising against women or degrading them, so what is the problem/complaint here?  Another thing to the guy that posted about images of scantily-clad women in slideshows or something like that.  You will see these everywhere in the world, don't be offended by them, and certainly don't accuse anyone else of being sexist simply for posting/viewing them.  I could understand if a FOSS website had an image on their website that depicted RMS stuffing dollar bills into a female developer's shirt.  Yes, that would be sexist.  Whatever the hell you're talking about isn't sexist, and it's degrading and belittling the severity of the term.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dear god , why are there so many comments on this issue ?
I have never even so much as THOUGHT about FOSS possibly being sexist in the slightest way , yet apparently it is some kind of big deal .
If women want to join the FOSS community , fine , I have no problem with that , if they do n't , fine , I have no problem with that either .
But honestly it does n't seem like a big deal to me at all , it 's not like FOSS is advertising against women or degrading them , so what is the problem/complaint here ?
Another thing to the guy that posted about images of scantily-clad women in slideshows or something like that .
You will see these everywhere in the world , do n't be offended by them , and certainly do n't accuse anyone else of being sexist simply for posting/viewing them .
I could understand if a FOSS website had an image on their website that depicted RMS stuffing dollar bills into a female developer 's shirt .
Yes , that would be sexist .
Whatever the hell you 're talking about is n't sexist , and it 's degrading and belittling the severity of the term .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dear god, why are there so many comments on this issue?
I have never even so much as THOUGHT about FOSS possibly being sexist in the slightest way, yet apparently it is some kind of big deal.
If women want to join the FOSS community, fine, I have no problem with that, if they don't, fine, I have no problem with that either.
But honestly it doesn't seem like a big deal to me at all, it's not like FOSS is advertising against women or degrading them, so what is the problem/complaint here?
Another thing to the guy that posted about images of scantily-clad women in slideshows or something like that.
You will see these everywhere in the world, don't be offended by them, and certainly don't accuse anyone else of being sexist simply for posting/viewing them.
I could understand if a FOSS website had an image on their website that depicted RMS stuffing dollar bills into a female developer's shirt.
Yes, that would be sexist.
Whatever the hell you're talking about isn't sexist, and it's degrading and belittling the severity of the term.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29736463</id>
	<title>Re:Stand up for equality!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255426020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Making woman merely an alias? That's not real equality. Better make a hard link from man to woman.</p><p>Shit. That wasn't what I intended to say.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Making woman merely an alias ?
That 's not real equality .
Better make a hard link from man to woman.Shit .
That was n't what I intended to say .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Making woman merely an alias?
That's not real equality.
Better make a hard link from man to woman.Shit.
That wasn't what I intended to say.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721189</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721209</id>
	<title>Absurd</title>
	<author>frovingslosh</author>
	<datestamp>1255372920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So the proof of Sexism is that when an absurd claim of it is made, the accuser is met with a negative response?</p><p>
This is a new low for<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.   How do I configure my account to no longer show me any stories edited by ScuttleMonkey ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So the proof of Sexism is that when an absurd claim of it is made , the accuser is met with a negative response ?
This is a new low for / .
How do I configure my account to no longer show me any stories edited by ScuttleMonkey ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So the proof of Sexism is that when an absurd claim of it is made, the accuser is met with a negative response?
This is a new low for /.
How do I configure my account to no longer show me any stories edited by ScuttleMonkey ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722641</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>Krahar</author>
	<datestamp>1255378200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The summary should have included a link to Byfield's <a href="http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3838186/" title="earthweb.com" rel="nofollow">original post</a> [earthweb.com], which explains the basis for his claim of sexism in FOSS:</p><blockquote><div><p>In other words, women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Now, isn't that by itself enough to get you thinking?</p></div><p>It gets me thinking that you just like all the rest of us don't know how to properly interpret that number. If you want me to take that number seriously as an indicator of sexism, you better have some research to pin down such a slippery claim.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The summary should have included a link to Byfield 's original post [ earthweb.com ] , which explains the basis for his claim of sexism in FOSS : In other words , women 's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development .
Now , is n't that by itself enough to get you thinking ? It gets me thinking that you just like all the rest of us do n't know how to properly interpret that number .
If you want me to take that number seriously as an indicator of sexism , you better have some research to pin down such a slippery claim .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The summary should have included a link to Byfield's original post [earthweb.com], which explains the basis for his claim of sexism in FOSS:In other words, women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.
Now, isn't that by itself enough to get you thinking?It gets me thinking that you just like all the rest of us don't know how to properly interpret that number.
If you want me to take that number seriously as an indicator of sexism, you better have some research to pin down such a slippery claim.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722133</id>
	<title>Re:Or maybe you're wrong</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255376040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>OK, how are we supposed to disagree without being "in denial"?</p></div><p>You can't.  Can't be critical of Obama without being a racist, either.  Can't question "climate change" without being a oil company shill.  Can't resist the gay agenda without being a homophobe.</p><p>Many things verboten.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , how are we supposed to disagree without being " in denial " ? You ca n't .
Ca n't be critical of Obama without being a racist , either .
Ca n't question " climate change " without being a oil company shill .
Ca n't resist the gay agenda without being a homophobe.Many things verboten .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, how are we supposed to disagree without being "in denial"?You can't.
Can't be critical of Obama without being a racist, either.
Can't question "climate change" without being a oil company shill.
Can't resist the gay agenda without being a homophobe.Many things verboten.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721279</id>
	<title>There are TWO, separate, issues</title>
	<author>bolthole</author>
	<datestamp>1255373100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are actually two issues buried in the one</p><p>One issue is, "why are the number of female FOSS developers so low?"</p><p>The other is, "are open software developers sexist?"</p><p>I would suggest that the "answer" to  the latter one, is  "no more than a random sample of males of similar age groups and location"</p><p>I would also suggest that the "answer" to the former one is, "because most women just arent interested in doing it".<br>At its core, "FOSS" software, starts as a project by an individual. There are ZERO barriers to entry for a woman interested in doing so. You dont need anyone's permission. You dont need money. All you need is Time, and Interest in doing so.</p><p>Women generally arent interested in "hard science" type stuff. Sure, SOME are, but the majority simply are not INTERESTED.<br>feminazis will want to scream that is sexist, blah blah. But simple facts, are not sexist. they simply are.<br>Reinforcement of this can be found by looking at the small areas where women ARE getting involved in open source the most.<br>I havent done an extensive study on this, but I've noticed a trend on the handful of "women in open source" articles over the last few months. The women pulled up as examples, are primarily working on... social networking/forum/blog type software.</p><p>Hmm. startling news. Not.<br>Women get involved in what interests them. That sort of stuff interests them. But the majority of FOSS projects, do not interest them. So, they dont participate. Mystery solved.</p><p>Feminists always seem to be desperate to prove that "men and women are the same", reguardless of facts.<br>Well guess what? They are NOT THE SAME. This is obvious to any 5 year old, unless they fall into the clutches of the "womyn" brainwashing troups.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are actually two issues buried in the oneOne issue is , " why are the number of female FOSS developers so low ?
" The other is , " are open software developers sexist ?
" I would suggest that the " answer " to the latter one , is " no more than a random sample of males of similar age groups and location " I would also suggest that the " answer " to the former one is , " because most women just arent interested in doing it " .At its core , " FOSS " software , starts as a project by an individual .
There are ZERO barriers to entry for a woman interested in doing so .
You dont need anyone 's permission .
You dont need money .
All you need is Time , and Interest in doing so.Women generally arent interested in " hard science " type stuff .
Sure , SOME are , but the majority simply are not INTERESTED.feminazis will want to scream that is sexist , blah blah .
But simple facts , are not sexist .
they simply are.Reinforcement of this can be found by looking at the small areas where women ARE getting involved in open source the most.I havent done an extensive study on this , but I 've noticed a trend on the handful of " women in open source " articles over the last few months .
The women pulled up as examples , are primarily working on... social networking/forum/blog type software.Hmm .
startling news .
Not.Women get involved in what interests them .
That sort of stuff interests them .
But the majority of FOSS projects , do not interest them .
So , they dont participate .
Mystery solved.Feminists always seem to be desperate to prove that " men and women are the same " , reguardless of facts.Well guess what ?
They are NOT THE SAME .
This is obvious to any 5 year old , unless they fall into the clutches of the " womyn " brainwashing troups .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are actually two issues buried in the oneOne issue is, "why are the number of female FOSS developers so low?
"The other is, "are open software developers sexist?
"I would suggest that the "answer" to  the latter one, is  "no more than a random sample of males of similar age groups and location"I would also suggest that the "answer" to the former one is, "because most women just arent interested in doing it".At its core, "FOSS" software, starts as a project by an individual.
There are ZERO barriers to entry for a woman interested in doing so.
You dont need anyone's permission.
You dont need money.
All you need is Time, and Interest in doing so.Women generally arent interested in "hard science" type stuff.
Sure, SOME are, but the majority simply are not INTERESTED.feminazis will want to scream that is sexist, blah blah.
But simple facts, are not sexist.
they simply are.Reinforcement of this can be found by looking at the small areas where women ARE getting involved in open source the most.I havent done an extensive study on this, but I've noticed a trend on the handful of "women in open source" articles over the last few months.
The women pulled up as examples, are primarily working on... social networking/forum/blog type software.Hmm.
startling news.
Not.Women get involved in what interests them.
That sort of stuff interests them.
But the majority of FOSS projects, do not interest them.
So, they dont participate.
Mystery solved.Feminists always seem to be desperate to prove that "men and women are the same", reguardless of facts.Well guess what?
They are NOT THE SAME.
This is obvious to any 5 year old, unless they fall into the clutches of the "womyn" brainwashing troups.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29730849</id>
	<title>That's nothing...</title>
	<author>gryf</author>
	<datestamp>1255443180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Raise the subject of sexism, and you are met with illogic that I can only compare to that of the tobacco companies trying to deny the link between their products and cancer.</p></div><p>
That's nothing, try suggesting that Linux is ready for mass adoption as a desktop OS.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Raise the subject of sexism , and you are met with illogic that I can only compare to that of the tobacco companies trying to deny the link between their products and cancer .
That 's nothing , try suggesting that Linux is ready for mass adoption as a desktop OS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Raise the subject of sexism, and you are met with illogic that I can only compare to that of the tobacco companies trying to deny the link between their products and cancer.
That's nothing, try suggesting that Linux is ready for mass adoption as a desktop OS.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724007</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>melikamp</author>
	<datestamp>1255340580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet,</p></div><p>Really?? The vast majority of posters and posts here are gender-neutral. The vast majority of topics here are
gender-neutral. This topic is a rare exception, it has a lot of sexist comments, and it is widely recognized as
a troll (it is tagged so). You are contributing to trolling as well. Slashdot, at large, is very neutral towards any
particular minority in IT, especially after you build your friend list and adjust viewing options. I hope to god you
are not reading it raw.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet,Really ? ?
The vast majority of posters and posts here are gender-neutral .
The vast majority of topics here are gender-neutral .
This topic is a rare exception , it has a lot of sexist comments , and it is widely recognized as a troll ( it is tagged so ) .
You are contributing to trolling as well .
Slashdot , at large , is very neutral towards any particular minority in IT , especially after you build your friend list and adjust viewing options .
I hope to god you are not reading it raw .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet,Really??
The vast majority of posters and posts here are gender-neutral.
The vast majority of topics here are
gender-neutral.
This topic is a rare exception, it has a lot of sexist comments, and it is widely recognized as
a troll (it is tagged so).
You are contributing to trolling as well.
Slashdot, at large, is very neutral towards any
particular minority in IT, especially after you build your friend list and adjust viewing options.
I hope to god you
are not reading it raw.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723065</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>I\_want\_information</author>
	<datestamp>1255379940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Why do women have to feel welcome? I'm a white dude and I feel unwelcome everywhere I go. Is that just me?</i> </p><p>Why do we need to make them feel not welcome?  What interest does that advance?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do women have to feel welcome ?
I 'm a white dude and I feel unwelcome everywhere I go .
Is that just me ?
Why do we need to make them feel not welcome ?
What interest does that advance ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do women have to feel welcome?
I'm a white dude and I feel unwelcome everywhere I go.
Is that just me?
Why do we need to make them feel not welcome?
What interest does that advance?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721227</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721357</id>
	<title>65.6 male/1 female</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255373340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Given: Human Gender Ratio in the physical world  ~= 1 male/1 female</p><p>Given: Human Gender Ratio in FOSS ~= 65.6 male/1 female</p><p>Therefore: FOSS is not Gender neutral</p><p>Delima:<br>1\_FOSS inherently favors males.<br>or<br>2\_Sexism has been built into FOSS<br>\_a) intentionaly<br>\_b) unintentionally</p><p>Given: studies in under representation in Sciences, Math and Engineering, have found NO inherit factors that can contribute to such ludicrous ratios as 65.6/1</p><p>Therefore: Sexism has been built into FOSS, either intentionally or unintentionally.</p><p>so what is it gonna be ppl Murder or Manslaughter?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given : Human Gender Ratio in the physical world ~ = 1 male/1 femaleGiven : Human Gender Ratio in FOSS ~ = 65.6 male/1 femaleTherefore : FOSS is not Gender neutralDelima : 1 \ _FOSS inherently favors males.or2 \ _Sexism has been built into FOSS \ _a ) intentionaly \ _b ) unintentionallyGiven : studies in under representation in Sciences , Math and Engineering , have found NO inherit factors that can contribute to such ludicrous ratios as 65.6/1Therefore : Sexism has been built into FOSS , either intentionally or unintentionally.so what is it gon na be ppl Murder or Manslaughter ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given: Human Gender Ratio in the physical world  ~= 1 male/1 femaleGiven: Human Gender Ratio in FOSS ~= 65.6 male/1 femaleTherefore: FOSS is not Gender neutralDelima:1\_FOSS inherently favors males.or2\_Sexism has been built into FOSS\_a) intentionaly\_b) unintentionallyGiven: studies in under representation in Sciences, Math and Engineering, have found NO inherit factors that can contribute to such ludicrous ratios as 65.6/1Therefore: Sexism has been built into FOSS, either intentionally or unintentionally.so what is it gonna be ppl Murder or Manslaughter?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29726773</id>
	<title>Is it that hard?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255354140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is it really that hard to program or to be a scientist or be an engineer <b>and</b> have a vagina? The answer is no.</p><p>Anyone who brings this issue up is simply aiming for some cheap self-promotion. They don't actually believe in their own cause; it's just a way of tapping into institutionalized white-liberal guilt.</p><p>This may sound harsh and "chauvinistic" but this is my candid opinion as a women and as a programmer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it really that hard to program or to be a scientist or be an engineer and have a vagina ?
The answer is no.Anyone who brings this issue up is simply aiming for some cheap self-promotion .
They do n't actually believe in their own cause ; it 's just a way of tapping into institutionalized white-liberal guilt.This may sound harsh and " chauvinistic " but this is my candid opinion as a women and as a programmer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it really that hard to program or to be a scientist or be an engineer and have a vagina?
The answer is no.Anyone who brings this issue up is simply aiming for some cheap self-promotion.
They don't actually believe in their own cause; it's just a way of tapping into institutionalized white-liberal guilt.This may sound harsh and "chauvinistic" but this is my candid opinion as a women and as a programmer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725383</id>
	<title>Stick to meritocracy</title>
	<author>hessian</author>
	<datestamp>1255346700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Make sure you promote the best and demote or keep static the rest.</p><p>Don't look at race, gender, creed, etc. just make sure that your system is fair.</p><p>That way, the competent rise, and you don't promote those who are incompetent AND ALSO from a protected group.</p><p>You both avoid discrimination, and anti-discrimination that ends up being revenge against the majority.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Make sure you promote the best and demote or keep static the rest.Do n't look at race , gender , creed , etc .
just make sure that your system is fair.That way , the competent rise , and you do n't promote those who are incompetent AND ALSO from a protected group.You both avoid discrimination , and anti-discrimination that ends up being revenge against the majority .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make sure you promote the best and demote or keep static the rest.Don't look at race, gender, creed, etc.
just make sure that your system is fair.That way, the competent rise, and you don't promote those who are incompetent AND ALSO from a protected group.You both avoid discrimination, and anti-discrimination that ends up being revenge against the majority.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721025</id>
	<title>1. there are cruel and cold misogynists</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1255372380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>2. then there are absolutely clueless types who say stupid things out of complete ignorance of how to relate to or even just talk about the opposite sex</p><p>3. and then there are the genuinely warped men with serious pscyhological issues and a serious axe to grind, with mother issues/ previous girlfriend issues/ stalker issues. these have to do with developmental psychology, emotional instability, and genuinely frightening deeper psychological issues like a need for control, and a perception of a threat in women on a psychological level they can't deal with</p><p>but all such men are only a tiny minority of men. in public, in the workplace, in the FOSS community. unfortunately, they themselves by their words and actions generate the majority of heat on the subject</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>2. then there are absolutely clueless types who say stupid things out of complete ignorance of how to relate to or even just talk about the opposite sex3 .
and then there are the genuinely warped men with serious pscyhological issues and a serious axe to grind , with mother issues/ previous girlfriend issues/ stalker issues .
these have to do with developmental psychology , emotional instability , and genuinely frightening deeper psychological issues like a need for control , and a perception of a threat in women on a psychological level they ca n't deal withbut all such men are only a tiny minority of men .
in public , in the workplace , in the FOSS community .
unfortunately , they themselves by their words and actions generate the majority of heat on the subject</tokentext>
<sentencetext>2. then there are absolutely clueless types who say stupid things out of complete ignorance of how to relate to or even just talk about the opposite sex3.
and then there are the genuinely warped men with serious pscyhological issues and a serious axe to grind, with mother issues/ previous girlfriend issues/ stalker issues.
these have to do with developmental psychology, emotional instability, and genuinely frightening deeper psychological issues like a need for control, and a perception of a threat in women on a psychological level they can't deal withbut all such men are only a tiny minority of men.
in public, in the workplace, in the FOSS community.
unfortunately, they themselves by their words and actions generate the majority of heat on the subject</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722651</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>amplt1337</author>
	<datestamp>1255378260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, but how would you feel if you joined a group that was 98.5\% gay men, and you (as a straight man, I'm assuming) suddenly got hit on every time you posted a message to the mailing list?  Would you be making a lot of posts, even though it was a list about stuff you were really interested in?  I'm guessing no.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , but how would you feel if you joined a group that was 98.5 \ % gay men , and you ( as a straight man , I 'm assuming ) suddenly got hit on every time you posted a message to the mailing list ?
Would you be making a lot of posts , even though it was a list about stuff you were really interested in ?
I 'm guessing no .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, but how would you feel if you joined a group that was 98.5\% gay men, and you (as a straight man, I'm assuming) suddenly got hit on every time you posted a message to the mailing list?
Would you be making a lot of posts, even though it was a list about stuff you were really interested in?
I'm guessing no.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720915</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If done repeatedly, and getting turned down repeatedly, asking someone out in the workplace rises to the level of sexual harassment. At least in the eyes of our corporate lawyers who insist on training us in the topic every year.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If done repeatedly , and getting turned down repeatedly , asking someone out in the workplace rises to the level of sexual harassment .
At least in the eyes of our corporate lawyers who insist on training us in the topic every year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If done repeatedly, and getting turned down repeatedly, asking someone out in the workplace rises to the level of sexual harassment.
At least in the eyes of our corporate lawyers who insist on training us in the topic every year.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720981</id>
	<title>Feminism is destructive</title>
	<author>lwsimon</author>
	<datestamp>1255372200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Feminism is at is base a destructive doctrine.  It fails to recognize that men and women are not the same.  Equal - yes.  Equivalent?  No!</p><p>I'm a 26-year-old male, and my wife and I have a 1-year-old.  I'm a typical geek in a lot of ways, and my wife is an excellent graphic designer.  She had an excellent job in the field before we had our daughter, but once she arrived, she didn't go back.  We sat down before conceiving a child, and discussed our plans.  We decided, together, that any children we might have would deserve and need the full attention of one of us.</p><p>This decision does not mean that I am more capable of earning a living as a man, or that she is relegated to the role of housewife.  What it does mean is that I, as a male, am more fulfilled provided for my family outside the home, while my wife is more fulfilled being present in the home to raise our children.</p><p>I truly believe that racism and sexism are essentially dead with my generation.  I can honestly say I've never discounted someone's ideas because they were a woman, or because they had a different skin color.  Continuing to live as if entire groups of people are being subjugated is nothing but a recipe for unhappy people, seeing racism and sexism where there is none.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Feminism is at is base a destructive doctrine .
It fails to recognize that men and women are not the same .
Equal - yes .
Equivalent ? No ! I 'm a 26-year-old male , and my wife and I have a 1-year-old .
I 'm a typical geek in a lot of ways , and my wife is an excellent graphic designer .
She had an excellent job in the field before we had our daughter , but once she arrived , she did n't go back .
We sat down before conceiving a child , and discussed our plans .
We decided , together , that any children we might have would deserve and need the full attention of one of us.This decision does not mean that I am more capable of earning a living as a man , or that she is relegated to the role of housewife .
What it does mean is that I , as a male , am more fulfilled provided for my family outside the home , while my wife is more fulfilled being present in the home to raise our children.I truly believe that racism and sexism are essentially dead with my generation .
I can honestly say I 've never discounted someone 's ideas because they were a woman , or because they had a different skin color .
Continuing to live as if entire groups of people are being subjugated is nothing but a recipe for unhappy people , seeing racism and sexism where there is none .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Feminism is at is base a destructive doctrine.
It fails to recognize that men and women are not the same.
Equal - yes.
Equivalent?  No!I'm a 26-year-old male, and my wife and I have a 1-year-old.
I'm a typical geek in a lot of ways, and my wife is an excellent graphic designer.
She had an excellent job in the field before we had our daughter, but once she arrived, she didn't go back.
We sat down before conceiving a child, and discussed our plans.
We decided, together, that any children we might have would deserve and need the full attention of one of us.This decision does not mean that I am more capable of earning a living as a man, or that she is relegated to the role of housewife.
What it does mean is that I, as a male, am more fulfilled provided for my family outside the home, while my wife is more fulfilled being present in the home to raise our children.I truly believe that racism and sexism are essentially dead with my generation.
I can honestly say I've never discounted someone's ideas because they were a woman, or because they had a different skin color.
Continuing to live as if entire groups of people are being subjugated is nothing but a recipe for unhappy people, seeing racism and sexism where there is none.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725857</id>
	<title>Re:Or maybe you're wrong</title>
	<author>psydeshow</author>
	<datestamp>1255349160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p> I think the reaction is an expression of denial more than anything else.</p></div><p>OK, how are we supposed to disagree without being "in denial"?</p></div><p>Seriously? Don't deny that sexism exists.</p><p>There, that was easy. You can disagree that the comments were intended to be denigrating to women, but that's sort of beside the point. Denying that they are sexist is like proving the existence of god: you can't.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the reaction is an expression of denial more than anything else.OK , how are we supposed to disagree without being " in denial " ? Seriously ?
Do n't deny that sexism exists.There , that was easy .
You can disagree that the comments were intended to be denigrating to women , but that 's sort of beside the point .
Denying that they are sexist is like proving the existence of god : you ca n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I think the reaction is an expression of denial more than anything else.OK, how are we supposed to disagree without being "in denial"?Seriously?
Don't deny that sexism exists.There, that was easy.
You can disagree that the comments were intended to be denigrating to women, but that's sort of beside the point.
Denying that they are sexist is like proving the existence of god: you can't.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</id>
	<title>Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>onion2k</author>
	<datestamp>1255370940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Or, if you prefer, listen to the horror stories female developers tell about sexist remarks or being asked out for dates.</p></div></blockquote><p>Making sexist remarks, ok, I can understand how that might be seen as being sexist. But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour? Face it, if I were to join a group that's 98.5\% women and demonstrate that I share an interest with <em>all of them</em> then I strongly suspect I'd get asked out too. Would I complain that their behaviour was <em>sexist</em>? No. Obviously not.</p><p>No. I'd be making lurve. All those ladies! Oh yeah baby!</p><p>Wait. I think I might be being sexist. Err.. Oh dear.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or , if you prefer , listen to the horror stories female developers tell about sexist remarks or being asked out for dates.Making sexist remarks , ok , I can understand how that might be seen as being sexist .
But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour ?
Face it , if I were to join a group that 's 98.5 \ % women and demonstrate that I share an interest with all of them then I strongly suspect I 'd get asked out too .
Would I complain that their behaviour was sexist ?
No. Obviously not.No .
I 'd be making lurve .
All those ladies !
Oh yeah baby ! Wait .
I think I might be being sexist .
Err.. Oh dear .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or, if you prefer, listen to the horror stories female developers tell about sexist remarks or being asked out for dates.Making sexist remarks, ok, I can understand how that might be seen as being sexist.
But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour?
Face it, if I were to join a group that's 98.5\% women and demonstrate that I share an interest with all of them then I strongly suspect I'd get asked out too.
Would I complain that their behaviour was sexist?
No. Obviously not.No.
I'd be making lurve.
All those ladies!
Oh yeah baby!Wait.
I think I might be being sexist.
Err.. Oh dear.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727603</id>
	<title>Call out Sexism the same way we call out FUD</title>
	<author>Ice Station Zebra</author>
	<datestamp>1255360200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sexism is something we shouldn't put up with and I lump it right along with M$ FUD, and the ever increasing FOSS FUD that I'm seeing.   Call it out, you might not get the outcome you desire, especially concerning FOSS FUD, people just don't recognize it, kinda like sexism.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sexism is something we should n't put up with and I lump it right along with M $ FUD , and the ever increasing FOSS FUD that I 'm seeing .
Call it out , you might not get the outcome you desire , especially concerning FOSS FUD , people just do n't recognize it , kinda like sexism .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sexism is something we shouldn't put up with and I lump it right along with M$ FUD, and the ever increasing FOSS FUD that I'm seeing.
Call it out, you might not get the outcome you desire, especially concerning FOSS FUD, people just don't recognize it, kinda like sexism.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723313</id>
	<title>This is why FOSS survives.</title>
	<author>PhasmatisApparatus</author>
	<datestamp>1255338060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can't come out of the woodwork every time FOSS is targeted by trolls, but every once in awhile I have to make an exception. FOSS is like a reverse-idiocracy. Those who are easily swayed by popular opinion will undoubtedly leave FOSS for more PR-competent grounds (Microsoft, etc.). Those of us who evaluate software on it's merits, instead of the failings of the spokespersons for that software, will continue to use FOSS and reap the benefits.<br>But let's get back to developers. If you are angered by the sexism displayed by certain members of the FOSS community, you will most likely be reluctant to contribute to the projects represented by those individuals. Thus, any public outcry against those individuals should be welcomed, but sadly most of the outcry is Microsoft FUD in disguise, which is not aimed at the individuals, but the FOSS movement as a whole.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't come out of the woodwork every time FOSS is targeted by trolls , but every once in awhile I have to make an exception .
FOSS is like a reverse-idiocracy .
Those who are easily swayed by popular opinion will undoubtedly leave FOSS for more PR-competent grounds ( Microsoft , etc. ) .
Those of us who evaluate software on it 's merits , instead of the failings of the spokespersons for that software , will continue to use FOSS and reap the benefits.But let 's get back to developers .
If you are angered by the sexism displayed by certain members of the FOSS community , you will most likely be reluctant to contribute to the projects represented by those individuals .
Thus , any public outcry against those individuals should be welcomed , but sadly most of the outcry is Microsoft FUD in disguise , which is not aimed at the individuals , but the FOSS movement as a whole .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't come out of the woodwork every time FOSS is targeted by trolls, but every once in awhile I have to make an exception.
FOSS is like a reverse-idiocracy.
Those who are easily swayed by popular opinion will undoubtedly leave FOSS for more PR-competent grounds (Microsoft, etc.).
Those of us who evaluate software on it's merits, instead of the failings of the spokespersons for that software, will continue to use FOSS and reap the benefits.But let's get back to developers.
If you are angered by the sexism displayed by certain members of the FOSS community, you will most likely be reluctant to contribute to the projects represented by those individuals.
Thus, any public outcry against those individuals should be welcomed, but sadly most of the outcry is Microsoft FUD in disguise, which is not aimed at the individuals, but the FOSS movement as a whole.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720671</id>
	<title>"Noooo. Noooo. that's just ignorant....."</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Obligatory South Park reference.  Had to be done.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Obligatory South Park reference .
Had to be done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obligatory South Park reference.
Had to be done.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723471</id>
	<title>Pardon my Pun, it Smells Like m$,3 Days in the Sun</title>
	<author>LifesABeach</author>
	<datestamp>1255338840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's only one company that could benefit from this topic, and the predictable outcome of this thread causes no life.  I cannot help but wonder how many are laughing at this thread in Redmond, and what other "delightful surprises" they are conjuring up using this thread as a medium for growth.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's only one company that could benefit from this topic , and the predictable outcome of this thread causes no life .
I can not help but wonder how many are laughing at this thread in Redmond , and what other " delightful surprises " they are conjuring up using this thread as a medium for growth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's only one company that could benefit from this topic, and the predictable outcome of this thread causes no life.
I cannot help but wonder how many are laughing at this thread in Redmond, and what other "delightful surprises" they are conjuring up using this thread as a medium for growth.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722685</id>
	<title>You don't really know how sexist you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255378440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The biggest threats to equality are the biases that you are unaware that you have.</p><p>I'm aware of social boundaries that I do not respect, so I find myself having to consciously avoid doing things like mixing professors with students or jocks with nerds at parties.  If I had my druthers, I'd invite everyone, but different social circles do different things, and I don't want to make people uncomfortable.  A lot of the time, it comes down to the fact that certain topics of discussion are not compatible with the people who don't have pertinant experiences.  Men typically don't want to hear about menstruation, while the topic might come up at a party of all women.  Conversely, women don't tend to want to hear about men's jock itch, but it's a common enough occurence among male athletes that the discussion might arise.  A lot of nerds don't know much about sports, and a lot of jocks don't know the fine details of compiling Linux kernels, so putting them together might result in people stuggling for things to talk about that interest them all.</p><p>All of these things stem from stereotypes.  Stereotypes are sometimes completely false, like the depiction of the Irish in the US in the 19th century.  But generally, there's some grain of truth, if only resulting from some people's narrow and biased experiences.  It's a fact, though, that humans like to create convenient categories and generalize.  People have a natural tendency to think "all blacks are..." and "all women are...", because they have observed these things in what they perceive to be a majority of encounters.</p><p>I like to think of myself as being above these petty prejudices, but there's a danger in thinking this, because I can miss subtle biases.  I grew up in a family that is clearly male-dominated.  My father and I both have graduate degrees, while my mother and sister do not.  When I was single, I had expressed a desire to find a partner who was my intellectual equal, but my family discouraged me, telling me that I would have a very hard time finding what I was after.  Despite their bias, I ended up marrying a woman that I often think of as my intellectual superior.  Still, there are a lot of subtle effects that stem from an implicit assumption that men are generally more intelligent than women, things that MUST have affected me in ways that I'm not aware of.</p><p>I remember a Star Trek episode where Janice Lester had wanted to become a starship captain (but they were not allowed) switched bodies with Kirk.  In the end, Kirk makes some comment about how she could have had as full a life as any woman.  Of course, our culture has matured significantly in the last 40 years.  But in some ways, many people haven't really been taught that women are equal to men; they've only been trained to parrot a politically correct thing to say.  They tell themselves that in the hypothetical a woman can be as capable as a man, but they don't believe it to be very LIKELY.  And of course, since no one wants to admit to others or even themselves that they feel this way, what really happens is that they judgement is affected subconsciously in a way that they can't defeat.</p><p>Women end up being judged "statistically" (you've never met a woman who was strong in IT, so this one you're interviewing is unlikely to be good).  And they're scrutinized more harshly (since you're more ready to accept that a man is smart, you're going to work harder to make damn sure that this woman is as smart, and what really happens is that you make the interview more difficult).</p><p>I have biases.  Many of those biases are unfair.  But the only way I can defeat them is to admit them.  Not to others, because it's not PC to ever express bias openly, but to myself so I can explore them and recognize how my thoughts might be unfair if I were to act upon them.</p><p>So for instance, when interviewing, to avoid bias, I ask everyone the same questions.  But I developed those questions partly by exploring my biases.  For isntance, while I may assume that men and women have equal intelligence, I don't</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The biggest threats to equality are the biases that you are unaware that you have.I 'm aware of social boundaries that I do not respect , so I find myself having to consciously avoid doing things like mixing professors with students or jocks with nerds at parties .
If I had my druthers , I 'd invite everyone , but different social circles do different things , and I do n't want to make people uncomfortable .
A lot of the time , it comes down to the fact that certain topics of discussion are not compatible with the people who do n't have pertinant experiences .
Men typically do n't want to hear about menstruation , while the topic might come up at a party of all women .
Conversely , women do n't tend to want to hear about men 's jock itch , but it 's a common enough occurence among male athletes that the discussion might arise .
A lot of nerds do n't know much about sports , and a lot of jocks do n't know the fine details of compiling Linux kernels , so putting them together might result in people stuggling for things to talk about that interest them all.All of these things stem from stereotypes .
Stereotypes are sometimes completely false , like the depiction of the Irish in the US in the 19th century .
But generally , there 's some grain of truth , if only resulting from some people 's narrow and biased experiences .
It 's a fact , though , that humans like to create convenient categories and generalize .
People have a natural tendency to think " all blacks are... " and " all women are... " , because they have observed these things in what they perceive to be a majority of encounters.I like to think of myself as being above these petty prejudices , but there 's a danger in thinking this , because I can miss subtle biases .
I grew up in a family that is clearly male-dominated .
My father and I both have graduate degrees , while my mother and sister do not .
When I was single , I had expressed a desire to find a partner who was my intellectual equal , but my family discouraged me , telling me that I would have a very hard time finding what I was after .
Despite their bias , I ended up marrying a woman that I often think of as my intellectual superior .
Still , there are a lot of subtle effects that stem from an implicit assumption that men are generally more intelligent than women , things that MUST have affected me in ways that I 'm not aware of.I remember a Star Trek episode where Janice Lester had wanted to become a starship captain ( but they were not allowed ) switched bodies with Kirk .
In the end , Kirk makes some comment about how she could have had as full a life as any woman .
Of course , our culture has matured significantly in the last 40 years .
But in some ways , many people have n't really been taught that women are equal to men ; they 've only been trained to parrot a politically correct thing to say .
They tell themselves that in the hypothetical a woman can be as capable as a man , but they do n't believe it to be very LIKELY .
And of course , since no one wants to admit to others or even themselves that they feel this way , what really happens is that they judgement is affected subconsciously in a way that they ca n't defeat.Women end up being judged " statistically " ( you 've never met a woman who was strong in IT , so this one you 're interviewing is unlikely to be good ) .
And they 're scrutinized more harshly ( since you 're more ready to accept that a man is smart , you 're going to work harder to make damn sure that this woman is as smart , and what really happens is that you make the interview more difficult ) .I have biases .
Many of those biases are unfair .
But the only way I can defeat them is to admit them .
Not to others , because it 's not PC to ever express bias openly , but to myself so I can explore them and recognize how my thoughts might be unfair if I were to act upon them.So for instance , when interviewing , to avoid bias , I ask everyone the same questions .
But I developed those questions partly by exploring my biases .
For isntance , while I may assume that men and women have equal intelligence , I do n't</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The biggest threats to equality are the biases that you are unaware that you have.I'm aware of social boundaries that I do not respect, so I find myself having to consciously avoid doing things like mixing professors with students or jocks with nerds at parties.
If I had my druthers, I'd invite everyone, but different social circles do different things, and I don't want to make people uncomfortable.
A lot of the time, it comes down to the fact that certain topics of discussion are not compatible with the people who don't have pertinant experiences.
Men typically don't want to hear about menstruation, while the topic might come up at a party of all women.
Conversely, women don't tend to want to hear about men's jock itch, but it's a common enough occurence among male athletes that the discussion might arise.
A lot of nerds don't know much about sports, and a lot of jocks don't know the fine details of compiling Linux kernels, so putting them together might result in people stuggling for things to talk about that interest them all.All of these things stem from stereotypes.
Stereotypes are sometimes completely false, like the depiction of the Irish in the US in the 19th century.
But generally, there's some grain of truth, if only resulting from some people's narrow and biased experiences.
It's a fact, though, that humans like to create convenient categories and generalize.
People have a natural tendency to think "all blacks are..." and "all women are...", because they have observed these things in what they perceive to be a majority of encounters.I like to think of myself as being above these petty prejudices, but there's a danger in thinking this, because I can miss subtle biases.
I grew up in a family that is clearly male-dominated.
My father and I both have graduate degrees, while my mother and sister do not.
When I was single, I had expressed a desire to find a partner who was my intellectual equal, but my family discouraged me, telling me that I would have a very hard time finding what I was after.
Despite their bias, I ended up marrying a woman that I often think of as my intellectual superior.
Still, there are a lot of subtle effects that stem from an implicit assumption that men are generally more intelligent than women, things that MUST have affected me in ways that I'm not aware of.I remember a Star Trek episode where Janice Lester had wanted to become a starship captain (but they were not allowed) switched bodies with Kirk.
In the end, Kirk makes some comment about how she could have had as full a life as any woman.
Of course, our culture has matured significantly in the last 40 years.
But in some ways, many people haven't really been taught that women are equal to men; they've only been trained to parrot a politically correct thing to say.
They tell themselves that in the hypothetical a woman can be as capable as a man, but they don't believe it to be very LIKELY.
And of course, since no one wants to admit to others or even themselves that they feel this way, what really happens is that they judgement is affected subconsciously in a way that they can't defeat.Women end up being judged "statistically" (you've never met a woman who was strong in IT, so this one you're interviewing is unlikely to be good).
And they're scrutinized more harshly (since you're more ready to accept that a man is smart, you're going to work harder to make damn sure that this woman is as smart, and what really happens is that you make the interview more difficult).I have biases.
Many of those biases are unfair.
But the only way I can defeat them is to admit them.
Not to others, because it's not PC to ever express bias openly, but to myself so I can explore them and recognize how my thoughts might be unfair if I were to act upon them.So for instance, when interviewing, to avoid bias, I ask everyone the same questions.
But I developed those questions partly by exploring my biases.
For isntance, while I may assume that men and women have equal intelligence, I don't</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29728131</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255364640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>[quote]Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet[/quote]

Troll</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ quote ] Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet [ /quote ] Troll</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[quote]Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet[/quote]

Troll
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721293</id>
	<title>Re:It is possible.</title>
	<author>jimbolauski</author>
	<datestamp>1255373160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Kind of like this.<br>
<a href="http://xkcd.com/385/" title="xkcd.com" rel="nofollow">Girls suck at math</a> [xkcd.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Kind of like this .
Girls suck at math [ xkcd.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kind of like this.
Girls suck at math [xkcd.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720727</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721543</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255374000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So the only reason why self-organizing, self-selected groups of volunteers tackling specific high-skilled problems might result in this way is because they hate women.</p><p>If you're not interested in X, the people who are are under no obligation to do stuff to balm your ego. Equality of opportunity does not translate into equality of outcome. Look at footraces.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So the only reason why self-organizing , self-selected groups of volunteers tackling specific high-skilled problems might result in this way is because they hate women.If you 're not interested in X , the people who are are under no obligation to do stuff to balm your ego .
Equality of opportunity does not translate into equality of outcome .
Look at footraces .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So the only reason why self-organizing, self-selected groups of volunteers tackling specific high-skilled problems might result in this way is because they hate women.If you're not interested in X, the people who are are under no obligation to do stuff to balm your ego.
Equality of opportunity does not translate into equality of outcome.
Look at footraces.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721845</id>
	<title>This is sexism, BUT from a small group of female..</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1255375020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...extremists. Those who want to drive it further and further, despite having surpassed the healthy balance a long time ago and despite men AND women starting to more and more oppose them.</p><p>It's really strange. I myself are from the post-sexism generation. I am so far out of that old twist in mind, that I have problems to even imagine why anyone would add in a sexistic way. I mean, it does not make any sense. And to me it does also not make any sense to beat that dead and long gone horse. The only sexism I ever have seen or heard of, is from two sources:</p><p>1. Really really backwards cultures is some very religious areas of the world. (No matter what religion.)<br>2. Feminazis (no offense, because I've seen them call themselves with names like that) who hate all and everything about men, because they were very mistreated by some male asshole(s).</p><p>Whoever thinks that women would be treated bad in IT/FOSS culture, obviously has never seen how one women in a IT team can make all the men there their slaves who want to fulfill her every wish. If anything, then men would love to see more women in their teams.</p><p>The problem is, that those feminazis think, that all women *want* to become construction and steel workers, mathematicians, programmers and physicists, etc.<br>While in reality, nearly all women couldn't care less about those kinds of jobs. Sure there are exceptions, and that's nice. But exceptions prove the rule.<br>I mean it's as if some extremist men would complain that we want to do more of those jobs that women like to do. But actually we don't.<br>Both genders have different interests, different talents, different things they love.</p><p>But obviously that fact would interfere with their "payback" plan. So <em>they</em> are actually in denial.</p><p>The <em>real</em> problem is, that women still form their ideals on the base of male ideals. And see what they actually like as something weak and low. Which is understandable, because many women actually don't want to be strong all the time. They want to have some peace. Who can't comprehend that? Look at what games girls play.<br>So they like a man who knows what is right and wrong, what is good and bad. It's a wonderful feeling to feel safe in that way.<br>That means they intuitively buy into that male reality. Including male ideals.<br>But in reality, nothing of what women like is any "lower" that what we like. Especially when we don't like it.</p><p>I guess we should help our wives get some self-esteem for their own values. Then the whole sexism stuff will vanish from the front pages, and only in corner areas will you see the female sexist view or the male sexist view, as a natural part of the Gaussian curve.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...extremists .
Those who want to drive it further and further , despite having surpassed the healthy balance a long time ago and despite men AND women starting to more and more oppose them.It 's really strange .
I myself are from the post-sexism generation .
I am so far out of that old twist in mind , that I have problems to even imagine why anyone would add in a sexistic way .
I mean , it does not make any sense .
And to me it does also not make any sense to beat that dead and long gone horse .
The only sexism I ever have seen or heard of , is from two sources : 1 .
Really really backwards cultures is some very religious areas of the world .
( No matter what religion. ) 2 .
Feminazis ( no offense , because I 've seen them call themselves with names like that ) who hate all and everything about men , because they were very mistreated by some male asshole ( s ) .Whoever thinks that women would be treated bad in IT/FOSS culture , obviously has never seen how one women in a IT team can make all the men there their slaves who want to fulfill her every wish .
If anything , then men would love to see more women in their teams.The problem is , that those feminazis think , that all women * want * to become construction and steel workers , mathematicians , programmers and physicists , etc.While in reality , nearly all women could n't care less about those kinds of jobs .
Sure there are exceptions , and that 's nice .
But exceptions prove the rule.I mean it 's as if some extremist men would complain that we want to do more of those jobs that women like to do .
But actually we do n't.Both genders have different interests , different talents , different things they love.But obviously that fact would interfere with their " payback " plan .
So they are actually in denial.The real problem is , that women still form their ideals on the base of male ideals .
And see what they actually like as something weak and low .
Which is understandable , because many women actually do n't want to be strong all the time .
They want to have some peace .
Who ca n't comprehend that ?
Look at what games girls play.So they like a man who knows what is right and wrong , what is good and bad .
It 's a wonderful feeling to feel safe in that way.That means they intuitively buy into that male reality .
Including male ideals.But in reality , nothing of what women like is any " lower " that what we like .
Especially when we do n't like it.I guess we should help our wives get some self-esteem for their own values .
Then the whole sexism stuff will vanish from the front pages , and only in corner areas will you see the female sexist view or the male sexist view , as a natural part of the Gaussian curve .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...extremists.
Those who want to drive it further and further, despite having surpassed the healthy balance a long time ago and despite men AND women starting to more and more oppose them.It's really strange.
I myself are from the post-sexism generation.
I am so far out of that old twist in mind, that I have problems to even imagine why anyone would add in a sexistic way.
I mean, it does not make any sense.
And to me it does also not make any sense to beat that dead and long gone horse.
The only sexism I ever have seen or heard of, is from two sources:1.
Really really backwards cultures is some very religious areas of the world.
(No matter what religion.)2.
Feminazis (no offense, because I've seen them call themselves with names like that) who hate all and everything about men, because they were very mistreated by some male asshole(s).Whoever thinks that women would be treated bad in IT/FOSS culture, obviously has never seen how one women in a IT team can make all the men there their slaves who want to fulfill her every wish.
If anything, then men would love to see more women in their teams.The problem is, that those feminazis think, that all women *want* to become construction and steel workers, mathematicians, programmers and physicists, etc.While in reality, nearly all women couldn't care less about those kinds of jobs.
Sure there are exceptions, and that's nice.
But exceptions prove the rule.I mean it's as if some extremist men would complain that we want to do more of those jobs that women like to do.
But actually we don't.Both genders have different interests, different talents, different things they love.But obviously that fact would interfere with their "payback" plan.
So they are actually in denial.The real problem is, that women still form their ideals on the base of male ideals.
And see what they actually like as something weak and low.
Which is understandable, because many women actually don't want to be strong all the time.
They want to have some peace.
Who can't comprehend that?
Look at what games girls play.So they like a man who knows what is right and wrong, what is good and bad.
It's a wonderful feeling to feel safe in that way.That means they intuitively buy into that male reality.
Including male ideals.But in reality, nothing of what women like is any "lower" that what we like.
Especially when we don't like it.I guess we should help our wives get some self-esteem for their own values.
Then the whole sexism stuff will vanish from the front pages, and only in corner areas will you see the female sexist view or the male sexist view, as a natural part of the Gaussian curve.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720787</id>
	<title>I'll see your sexism...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...and raise you an ire and denial.</p><p>What? You call??</p><p>FUCK, full house queens over sevens? All I've got is a king and a jack.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and raise you an ire and denial.What ?
You call ?
? FUCK , full house queens over sevens ?
All I 've got is a king and a jack .
: - (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and raise you an ire and denial.What?
You call?
?FUCK, full house queens over sevens?
All I've got is a king and a jack.
:-(</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720455</id>
	<title>Feminist issues in software?</title>
	<author>piotru</author>
	<datestamp>1255370040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How wrong were I thinking that only professional matters should be of concern. Before we tackle the obvious sexist attitude in capitalist society towards childbearing, let me recall Sokal's discussions with postmodernist on mixing politics with science. Hope we aren't all living in Orwell's animal farm, just yet...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How wrong were I thinking that only professional matters should be of concern .
Before we tackle the obvious sexist attitude in capitalist society towards childbearing , let me recall Sokal 's discussions with postmodernist on mixing politics with science .
Hope we are n't all living in Orwell 's animal farm , just yet.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How wrong were I thinking that only professional matters should be of concern.
Before we tackle the obvious sexist attitude in capitalist society towards childbearing, let me recall Sokal's discussions with postmodernist on mixing politics with science.
Hope we aren't all living in Orwell's animal farm, just yet...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720853</id>
	<title>Amusing inconsitency</title>
	<author>amliebsch</author>
	<datestamp>1255371660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The article invites us to draw conclusions from the fact that there is a dramatically higher percentage of females working in non-free programming as opposed to free software.  Then it also throws out the fact that quality is dramatically higher in free software - but I assume we're not supposed to draw any conclusions from that correlation, eh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The article invites us to draw conclusions from the fact that there is a dramatically higher percentage of females working in non-free programming as opposed to free software .
Then it also throws out the fact that quality is dramatically higher in free software - but I assume we 're not supposed to draw any conclusions from that correlation , eh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article invites us to draw conclusions from the fact that there is a dramatically higher percentage of females working in non-free programming as opposed to free software.
Then it also throws out the fact that quality is dramatically higher in free software - but I assume we're not supposed to draw any conclusions from that correlation, eh?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29735069</id>
	<title>Slashdot isn't perfect, either.</title>
	<author>curare19</author>
	<datestamp>1255463280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know no one will probably read this after 1,000+ comments, but I wanted to have my say.  We've come a long way in a short time.<p>

In the late 90s/early 00s, there was an article on Slashdot about how women were outnumbering men in the purchase of electronics and computing equipment.  I remember jumping into the thread, thinking "Surely my enlightened brethren will celebrate this additional diversity in their field!"</p><p>

Instead, I got comments about how women were clearly buying these things for their husbands, being misled by savvy (and male) salespeople, and some snarky comments about the nature of the "electronics" being purchased.  (Either stoves, or washing machines, or something else that vibrates.)  I got the feeling these techies were intimidated by someone else infringing on their territory.  Yes, many of the comments were supposed to be funny, but they were clearly jokes laid thinly on top of sincere feelings.  Now how do you think that made me feel about participating in this community?</p><p>

Things have gotten much better since then, but don't you think the low percentage of women in the FOSS community may be related to some held-over, more open sexism from times past?  Upon being burned once or twice, many women will just give up trying to be part of the boys' club.  Additionally, though openly sexist comments are taboo now, the collective and subtle actions of an organization may all work together to feel a specific group feel unwelcome.</p><p>

The commenters who are demanding specific examples of sexism (and when being provided with them, calling them single incidents not representative of the entire community) are misguided.  The FOSS community doesn't need a witch hunt - it needs to look at the overall feel of the community and determine if something about that is exclusionary.  It's not easy, and it's very warm-and-fuzzy, and many people in the FOSS community don't understand the problem if it doesn't consist of 0s and 1s.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know no one will probably read this after 1,000 + comments , but I wanted to have my say .
We 've come a long way in a short time .
In the late 90s/early 00s , there was an article on Slashdot about how women were outnumbering men in the purchase of electronics and computing equipment .
I remember jumping into the thread , thinking " Surely my enlightened brethren will celebrate this additional diversity in their field !
" Instead , I got comments about how women were clearly buying these things for their husbands , being misled by savvy ( and male ) salespeople , and some snarky comments about the nature of the " electronics " being purchased .
( Either stoves , or washing machines , or something else that vibrates .
) I got the feeling these techies were intimidated by someone else infringing on their territory .
Yes , many of the comments were supposed to be funny , but they were clearly jokes laid thinly on top of sincere feelings .
Now how do you think that made me feel about participating in this community ?
Things have gotten much better since then , but do n't you think the low percentage of women in the FOSS community may be related to some held-over , more open sexism from times past ?
Upon being burned once or twice , many women will just give up trying to be part of the boys ' club .
Additionally , though openly sexist comments are taboo now , the collective and subtle actions of an organization may all work together to feel a specific group feel unwelcome .
The commenters who are demanding specific examples of sexism ( and when being provided with them , calling them single incidents not representative of the entire community ) are misguided .
The FOSS community does n't need a witch hunt - it needs to look at the overall feel of the community and determine if something about that is exclusionary .
It 's not easy , and it 's very warm-and-fuzzy , and many people in the FOSS community do n't understand the problem if it does n't consist of 0s and 1s .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know no one will probably read this after 1,000+ comments, but I wanted to have my say.
We've come a long way in a short time.
In the late 90s/early 00s, there was an article on Slashdot about how women were outnumbering men in the purchase of electronics and computing equipment.
I remember jumping into the thread, thinking "Surely my enlightened brethren will celebrate this additional diversity in their field!
"

Instead, I got comments about how women were clearly buying these things for their husbands, being misled by savvy (and male) salespeople, and some snarky comments about the nature of the "electronics" being purchased.
(Either stoves, or washing machines, or something else that vibrates.
)  I got the feeling these techies were intimidated by someone else infringing on their territory.
Yes, many of the comments were supposed to be funny, but they were clearly jokes laid thinly on top of sincere feelings.
Now how do you think that made me feel about participating in this community?
Things have gotten much better since then, but don't you think the low percentage of women in the FOSS community may be related to some held-over, more open sexism from times past?
Upon being burned once or twice, many women will just give up trying to be part of the boys' club.
Additionally, though openly sexist comments are taboo now, the collective and subtle actions of an organization may all work together to feel a specific group feel unwelcome.
The commenters who are demanding specific examples of sexism (and when being provided with them, calling them single incidents not representative of the entire community) are misguided.
The FOSS community doesn't need a witch hunt - it needs to look at the overall feel of the community and determine if something about that is exclusionary.
It's not easy, and it's very warm-and-fuzzy, and many people in the FOSS community don't understand the problem if it doesn't consist of 0s and 1s.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29729689</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255429740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In other words, women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.</p></div><p>So most women are only in software development for the money?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In other words , women 's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.So most women are only in software development for the money ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In other words, women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.So most women are only in software development for the money?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727217</id>
	<title>Re:Textbook definition</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1255357320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, maybe you're homophobic and only date <b>straight</b> people.</p><p>
So you're willing to date straight men and women both, but have figured out the logical paradox there and stopped asking out men that you became immediately were prejudiced against when they said yes.</p><p>
It's like Groucho Marx's "I would not join any club that would have someone like me for a member.". 'I wouldn't date any men who'd date someone of my gender, because they're probably one of those f******.'</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , maybe you 're homophobic and only date straight people .
So you 're willing to date straight men and women both , but have figured out the logical paradox there and stopped asking out men that you became immediately were prejudiced against when they said yes .
It 's like Groucho Marx 's " I would not join any club that would have someone like me for a member. " .
'I would n't date any men who 'd date someone of my gender , because they 're probably one of those f * * * * * * .
' ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, maybe you're homophobic and only date straight people.
So you're willing to date straight men and women both, but have figured out the logical paradox there and stopped asking out men that you became immediately were prejudiced against when they said yes.
It's like Groucho Marx's "I would not join any club that would have someone like me for a member.".
'I wouldn't date any men who'd date someone of my gender, because they're probably one of those f******.
' ;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721741</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722623</id>
	<title>Re:Or maybe you're wrong</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255378140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I, for one, think that it's perfectly possible to disagree without being in the Nile.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I , for one , think that it 's perfectly possible to disagree without being in the Nile .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I, for one, think that it's perfectly possible to disagree without being in the Nile.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720727</id>
	<title>It is possible.</title>
	<author>khasim</author>
	<datestamp>1255371180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're talking about sexism targeted at a specific individual ("your code sucks because you're a girl").</p><p>There can also be generalized sexism. That would be comments about women not directed at any specific individual. Such as telling sexist jokes.</p><p>The question is, where is that behaviour demonstrated in FOSS development? So far there have been very few examples of such.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're talking about sexism targeted at a specific individual ( " your code sucks because you 're a girl " ) .There can also be generalized sexism .
That would be comments about women not directed at any specific individual .
Such as telling sexist jokes.The question is , where is that behaviour demonstrated in FOSS development ?
So far there have been very few examples of such .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're talking about sexism targeted at a specific individual ("your code sucks because you're a girl").There can also be generalized sexism.
That would be comments about women not directed at any specific individual.
Such as telling sexist jokes.The question is, where is that behaviour demonstrated in FOSS development?
So far there have been very few examples of such.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721869</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>tool462</author>
	<datestamp>1255375080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obligatory Flight of the Conchords:</p><p>"I want to tell her how hot she is, but she&rsquo;ll think I&rsquo;m being sexist.<br>She&rsquo;s so hot she&rsquo;s making me sexist."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obligatory Flight of the Conchords : " I want to tell her how hot she is , but she    ll think I    m being sexist.She    s so hot she    s making me sexist .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obligatory Flight of the Conchords:"I want to tell her how hot she is, but she’ll think I’m being sexist.She’s so hot she’s making me sexist.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723955</id>
	<title>Re:Sexism is so pervasive we don't see it</title>
	<author>BobMcD</author>
	<datestamp>1255340400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>From <b>her</b> point of view, denying it just means you're as <b>clueless as all the other men</b>.</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p> <b>Guys</b>, it doesn't matter whether your intentions are good. Sometimes you will say or do something sexist</p></div><p>Pot meet kettle.</p><p>Males do not have a lock on sexism, ya freakin sexist!</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Apologize and think and try to do better next time.</p></div><p>Please, lead by example.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From her point of view , denying it just means you 're as clueless as all the other men .
Guys , it does n't matter whether your intentions are good .
Sometimes you will say or do something sexistPot meet kettle.Males do not have a lock on sexism , ya freakin sexist ! Apologize and think and try to do better next time.Please , lead by example .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From her point of view, denying it just means you're as clueless as all the other men.
Guys, it doesn't matter whether your intentions are good.
Sometimes you will say or do something sexistPot meet kettle.Males do not have a lock on sexism, ya freakin sexist!Apologize and think and try to do better next time.Please, lead by example.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721477</id>
	<title>Re:How is asking a woman out for a date sexist?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255373700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because they're geeks.  If they were socially-adjusted, attractive men, it wouldn't be sexist at all.  Its only sexist if you don't want the guy to flirt with you.  Also, they shouldn't have to actually tell the man they're not interested.  They should <em>just know.  Most of these creeps have the audacity of not reading your mind.</em></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because they 're geeks .
If they were socially-adjusted , attractive men , it would n't be sexist at all .
Its only sexist if you do n't want the guy to flirt with you .
Also , they should n't have to actually tell the man they 're not interested .
They should just know .
Most of these creeps have the audacity of not reading your mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because they're geeks.
If they were socially-adjusted, attractive men, it wouldn't be sexist at all.
Its only sexist if you don't want the guy to flirt with you.
Also, they shouldn't have to actually tell the man they're not interested.
They should just know.
Most of these creeps have the audacity of not reading your mind.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720953</id>
	<title>There, there now</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1255372080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Because I took a feminist stance in public, I have been abused in every way possible -- being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, homosexual, and even a betrayer of the community.</p></div><p>Have a little cry and get over it.
</p><p>But seriously: There's sexism in every industry. But the FOSS world tends to ba made up of lots of smaller companies. Where they don't have big HR departments, corporate policy manuals the size of the NYC phone book and mandatory quarterly sensitivity training. So the a*holes think they've got free reign to abuse women (and everyone else). And the businesses aren't wealthy enough such that anyone can bring a discrimination suite against them and hope to do any more than see them file bankruptcy and disappear. Or they're so small that everyone is a key person that they can't afford to lose.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because I took a feminist stance in public , I have been abused in every way possible -- being called irrelevant , a saboteur , coward , homosexual , and even a betrayer of the community.Have a little cry and get over it .
But seriously : There 's sexism in every industry .
But the FOSS world tends to ba made up of lots of smaller companies .
Where they do n't have big HR departments , corporate policy manuals the size of the NYC phone book and mandatory quarterly sensitivity training .
So the a * holes think they 've got free reign to abuse women ( and everyone else ) .
And the businesses are n't wealthy enough such that anyone can bring a discrimination suite against them and hope to do any more than see them file bankruptcy and disappear .
Or they 're so small that everyone is a key person that they ca n't afford to lose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because I took a feminist stance in public, I have been abused in every way possible -- being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, homosexual, and even a betrayer of the community.Have a little cry and get over it.
But seriously: There's sexism in every industry.
But the FOSS world tends to ba made up of lots of smaller companies.
Where they don't have big HR departments, corporate policy manuals the size of the NYC phone book and mandatory quarterly sensitivity training.
So the a*holes think they've got free reign to abuse women (and everyone else).
And the businesses aren't wealthy enough such that anyone can bring a discrimination suite against them and hope to do any more than see them file bankruptcy and disappear.
Or they're so small that everyone is a key person that they can't afford to lose.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724997</id>
	<title>Re:Missing reference</title>
	<author>Kintanon</author>
	<datestamp>1255344900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It makes me think that FOSS doesn't pay as well as proprietary development and so attracts a larger "hobbyist" crowd that women are not as often hobbyist programmers as men. Quite likely due to the whole introverted programmer nerd paradigm being so firmly entrenched in the masculine gender.<br>You will rarely find women who were totally unable to form solid social bonds with their peers in their teenage yeers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It makes me think that FOSS does n't pay as well as proprietary development and so attracts a larger " hobbyist " crowd that women are not as often hobbyist programmers as men .
Quite likely due to the whole introverted programmer nerd paradigm being so firmly entrenched in the masculine gender.You will rarely find women who were totally unable to form solid social bonds with their peers in their teenage yeers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It makes me think that FOSS doesn't pay as well as proprietary development and so attracts a larger "hobbyist" crowd that women are not as often hobbyist programmers as men.
Quite likely due to the whole introverted programmer nerd paradigm being so firmly entrenched in the masculine gender.You will rarely find women who were totally unable to form solid social bonds with their peers in their teenage yeers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722409</id>
	<title>Re:Some examples would be useful</title>
	<author>pijokela</author>
	<datestamp>1255377180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.sarahmei.com/blog/2009/04/25/why-rails-is-still-a-ghetto/" title="sarahmei.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.sarahmei.com/blog/2009/04/25/why-rails-is-still-a-ghetto/</a> [sarahmei.com]</p><p><a href="http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Mark\_Shuttleworth\_at\_Linuxcon" title="wikia.com" rel="nofollow">http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Mark\_Shuttleworth\_at\_Linuxcon</a> [wikia.com]</p><p><a href="http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/EMACS\_virgins\_joke" title="wikia.com" rel="nofollow">http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/EMACS\_virgins\_joke</a> [wikia.com]</p><p>I agree - it would have been nice to have links in the article.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.sarahmei.com/blog/2009/04/25/why-rails-is-still-a-ghetto/ [ sarahmei.com ] http : //geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Mark \ _Shuttleworth \ _at \ _Linuxcon [ wikia.com ] http : //geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/EMACS \ _virgins \ _joke [ wikia.com ] I agree - it would have been nice to have links in the article .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.sarahmei.com/blog/2009/04/25/why-rails-is-still-a-ghetto/ [sarahmei.com]http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Mark\_Shuttleworth\_at\_Linuxcon [wikia.com]http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/EMACS\_virgins\_joke [wikia.com]I agree - it would have been nice to have links in the article.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723595</id>
	<title>Re:Standard FOSS: Don't blame, Debug!</title>
	<author>Tranzistors</author>
	<datestamp>1255339260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Related reading:<br><a href="http://blog.milkingthegnu.org/2008/06/why-women-dont-floss.html" title="milkingthegnu.org">http://blog.milkingthegnu.org/2008/06/why-women-dont-floss.html</a> [milkingthegnu.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Related reading : http : //blog.milkingthegnu.org/2008/06/why-women-dont-floss.html [ milkingthegnu.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Related reading:http://blog.milkingthegnu.org/2008/06/why-women-dont-floss.html [milkingthegnu.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721395</id>
	<title>Is this whats left of women's lib?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255373460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not a apologetic self hating man pretending to be a feminist..  I believe in equal rights and I think after a certain point you can't force it, it has to be earned and it becomes the responsibility of the people who want the right. (this goes for all rights, race, sex, beliefs, etc).. I'm seriously disappointed in today's "feminists", instead of pushing women to do better in school, sciences, math, to be more competitive in the workplace, which would finally equalize the last remaining inequalities you nit pick on ridiculous nonsense..</p><p>Wake up even for men programmers are a special breed of people.. ranging from normal, to exceptional but often to weird and introverted.. OH NO programmers are weird to women.. well guess what some of these men have very little to do with women and some are resentful of the lack of attention they get from women..</p><p>Guess what you can pick any male dominated profession and you will probably get the same reactions if not worse.. sometimes they are actually justified.. am I a sexist no.. not at all.. but do I want to have a 120lb woman try to pull me out of a burning building.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.hell no.. I want some jacked up testosterone filled muscle head who can lift me in one arm and my 50 inch plasma in the other arm (its my baby and I want it saved)..</p><p>Do we need more female involvement in FOSS.. sure.. but than again we need more involvement in FOSS in general.. socialism in its true and best form..</p><p>Now instead of wasting your time complaining about FOSS and programmers.. why don't you spend this time speaking to young women, explaining to them that fashion and entertainment are BS jobs and they should spend more time in the sciences.. All the laws are in place now it's up to women to step up and fill the roles that they complain they are represented properly in..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not a apologetic self hating man pretending to be a feminist.. I believe in equal rights and I think after a certain point you ca n't force it , it has to be earned and it becomes the responsibility of the people who want the right .
( this goes for all rights , race , sex , beliefs , etc ) .. I 'm seriously disappointed in today 's " feminists " , instead of pushing women to do better in school , sciences , math , to be more competitive in the workplace , which would finally equalize the last remaining inequalities you nit pick on ridiculous nonsense..Wake up even for men programmers are a special breed of people.. ranging from normal , to exceptional but often to weird and introverted.. OH NO programmers are weird to women.. well guess what some of these men have very little to do with women and some are resentful of the lack of attention they get from women..Guess what you can pick any male dominated profession and you will probably get the same reactions if not worse.. sometimes they are actually justified.. am I a sexist no.. not at all.. but do I want to have a 120lb woman try to pull me out of a burning building .
.hell no.. I want some jacked up testosterone filled muscle head who can lift me in one arm and my 50 inch plasma in the other arm ( its my baby and I want it saved ) ..Do we need more female involvement in FOSS.. sure.. but than again we need more involvement in FOSS in general.. socialism in its true and best form..Now instead of wasting your time complaining about FOSS and programmers.. why do n't you spend this time speaking to young women , explaining to them that fashion and entertainment are BS jobs and they should spend more time in the sciences.. All the laws are in place now it 's up to women to step up and fill the roles that they complain they are represented properly in. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not a apologetic self hating man pretending to be a feminist..  I believe in equal rights and I think after a certain point you can't force it, it has to be earned and it becomes the responsibility of the people who want the right.
(this goes for all rights, race, sex, beliefs, etc).. I'm seriously disappointed in today's "feminists", instead of pushing women to do better in school, sciences, math, to be more competitive in the workplace, which would finally equalize the last remaining inequalities you nit pick on ridiculous nonsense..Wake up even for men programmers are a special breed of people.. ranging from normal, to exceptional but often to weird and introverted.. OH NO programmers are weird to women.. well guess what some of these men have very little to do with women and some are resentful of the lack of attention they get from women..Guess what you can pick any male dominated profession and you will probably get the same reactions if not worse.. sometimes they are actually justified.. am I a sexist no.. not at all.. but do I want to have a 120lb woman try to pull me out of a burning building.
.hell no.. I want some jacked up testosterone filled muscle head who can lift me in one arm and my 50 inch plasma in the other arm (its my baby and I want it saved)..Do we need more female involvement in FOSS.. sure.. but than again we need more involvement in FOSS in general.. socialism in its true and best form..Now instead of wasting your time complaining about FOSS and programmers.. why don't you spend this time speaking to young women, explaining to them that fashion and entertainment are BS jobs and they should spend more time in the sciences.. All the laws are in place now it's up to women to step up and fill the roles that they complain they are represented properly in..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720419</id>
	<title>How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255369920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>....when the sex of the contributor is more often than not completely unknown?</p><p>I see a contribution from a "Terry", I have no idea if that is a male or female, and really why would I care? Either the code is god, o rit isn't. Why would sex ever have any bearing at all?</p><p>Frankly I really don't even get how a claim of sexism could exist in the FOSS world. It just doesn't translate from meat-space, because frankly, more often than not you have no idea the sex of the person in the first place. And really, that is how it should be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>....when the sex of the contributor is more often than not completely unknown ? I see a contribution from a " Terry " , I have no idea if that is a male or female , and really why would I care ?
Either the code is god , o rit is n't .
Why would sex ever have any bearing at all ? Frankly I really do n't even get how a claim of sexism could exist in the FOSS world .
It just does n't translate from meat-space , because frankly , more often than not you have no idea the sex of the person in the first place .
And really , that is how it should be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>....when the sex of the contributor is more often than not completely unknown?I see a contribution from a "Terry", I have no idea if that is a male or female, and really why would I care?
Either the code is god, o rit isn't.
Why would sex ever have any bearing at all?Frankly I really don't even get how a claim of sexism could exist in the FOSS world.
It just doesn't translate from meat-space, because frankly, more often than not you have no idea the sex of the person in the first place.
And really, that is how it should be.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720397</id>
	<title>No Denial Here But What Are the Reasons?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255369800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Raise the subject of sexism<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p> </div><p>What reports of sexism have there been?  Are you raising the subject of sexism just based on the fact that only 1.5\% of FOSS developers are women?  It takes a very special kind of person to do FOSS development -- because it's often outside of work.  Which means you have to love what you do at work and then come home and do it some more.  Even I get sick of coding.  It's an uncommon desire and requires a special kind of insanity.  So much of the stuff I write outside of work is just absolutely useless in the end.  Is it possible this trait is far less common in women than men?  <br> <br>

Present evidence of sexist attitudes and attacks and I will gladly support you.  Hell, I support you right now, nothing would make me happier than more women in FOSS.  I just am not sure how you promote that sort of goal -- usually it's a monetary or favorable employment reward for having ovaries but the only reward is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... recognition?</p><p><div class="quote"><p> Because I took a feminist stance in public, I have been abused in every way possible &mdash; being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, homosexual, and even a betrayer of the community.</p></div><p>People on the internet called you names?  It happens.  Who are these people?  Probably random pigs the internet has no shortage of.  Don't let it get to you, hold your summit and figure out a way to designate Female FOSS Developer of the Month on your website.  <br> <br>

To reiterate, I'm not denying that there is an disturbingly low percentage of women in FOSS development.  I'm just questioning what's causing that.  It's probably a number of factors including Hollywood not showing women as the computer hacker in many of their movies (except maybe <i>Hackers</i>).  It's predominantly the stereotypical male.  Women have to overcome that and women have to realize that getting together and working on a project with your friends by just coding can be fun.  But I think society tells them early on that's not what women do.  If there's any sexism, I've seen no proof it's internal to FOSS.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Raise the subject of sexism ... What reports of sexism have there been ?
Are you raising the subject of sexism just based on the fact that only 1.5 \ % of FOSS developers are women ?
It takes a very special kind of person to do FOSS development -- because it 's often outside of work .
Which means you have to love what you do at work and then come home and do it some more .
Even I get sick of coding .
It 's an uncommon desire and requires a special kind of insanity .
So much of the stuff I write outside of work is just absolutely useless in the end .
Is it possible this trait is far less common in women than men ?
Present evidence of sexist attitudes and attacks and I will gladly support you .
Hell , I support you right now , nothing would make me happier than more women in FOSS .
I just am not sure how you promote that sort of goal -- usually it 's a monetary or favorable employment reward for having ovaries but the only reward is ... recognition ? Because I took a feminist stance in public , I have been abused in every way possible    being called irrelevant , a saboteur , coward , homosexual , and even a betrayer of the community.People on the internet called you names ?
It happens .
Who are these people ?
Probably random pigs the internet has no shortage of .
Do n't let it get to you , hold your summit and figure out a way to designate Female FOSS Developer of the Month on your website .
To reiterate , I 'm not denying that there is an disturbingly low percentage of women in FOSS development .
I 'm just questioning what 's causing that .
It 's probably a number of factors including Hollywood not showing women as the computer hacker in many of their movies ( except maybe Hackers ) .
It 's predominantly the stereotypical male .
Women have to overcome that and women have to realize that getting together and working on a project with your friends by just coding can be fun .
But I think society tells them early on that 's not what women do .
If there 's any sexism , I 've seen no proof it 's internal to FOSS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Raise the subject of sexism ... What reports of sexism have there been?
Are you raising the subject of sexism just based on the fact that only 1.5\% of FOSS developers are women?
It takes a very special kind of person to do FOSS development -- because it's often outside of work.
Which means you have to love what you do at work and then come home and do it some more.
Even I get sick of coding.
It's an uncommon desire and requires a special kind of insanity.
So much of the stuff I write outside of work is just absolutely useless in the end.
Is it possible this trait is far less common in women than men?
Present evidence of sexist attitudes and attacks and I will gladly support you.
Hell, I support you right now, nothing would make me happier than more women in FOSS.
I just am not sure how you promote that sort of goal -- usually it's a monetary or favorable employment reward for having ovaries but the only reward is ... recognition? Because I took a feminist stance in public, I have been abused in every way possible — being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, homosexual, and even a betrayer of the community.People on the internet called you names?
It happens.
Who are these people?
Probably random pigs the internet has no shortage of.
Don't let it get to you, hold your summit and figure out a way to designate Female FOSS Developer of the Month on your website.
To reiterate, I'm not denying that there is an disturbingly low percentage of women in FOSS development.
I'm just questioning what's causing that.
It's probably a number of factors including Hollywood not showing women as the computer hacker in many of their movies (except maybe Hackers).
It's predominantly the stereotypical male.
Women have to overcome that and women have to realize that getting together and working on a project with your friends by just coding can be fun.
But I think society tells them early on that's not what women do.
If there's any sexism, I've seen no proof it's internal to FOSS.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725159</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>DaveV1.0</author>
	<datestamp>1255345680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While I am at it, it is very hard to take seriously a group that <a href="http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/superbowl.asp" title="snopes.com">makes up statistics about domestic violence and the Super Bowl Sunday</a> [snopes.com]. And, once the lie was exposed, <a href="http://www.fair.org/extra/9304/superbowl.html" title="fair.org">the group has defended and justified the lie</a> [fair.org].</p><p>And, it is hard to take seriously a group that has been complaining about the wage-gender gap when a <a href="http://www.iwf.org/campus/show/18948.html" title="iwf.org">female economist showed the gap to be, 2\% when experience, education, and number of years on the job are taken into account.  And, when a former head of the National Organization for Women New York City shows it is actually false.</a> [iwf.org] The reason men tend to make more in many professions is because men do harder and more dangerous jobs. Men are more likely to do the nastier jobs, to work later, to work overtime, work odd hours, to travel for their job, and do all the most difficult things in a job than women. Women are also more likely to choose jobs that are personally rewarding but pay less, such as working for non-profits. The reason men make more than women is because men sacrifice more of their happiness, health, and self to their jobs than women do.</p><p>Feminists are their own worst enemy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While I am at it , it is very hard to take seriously a group that makes up statistics about domestic violence and the Super Bowl Sunday [ snopes.com ] .
And , once the lie was exposed , the group has defended and justified the lie [ fair.org ] .And , it is hard to take seriously a group that has been complaining about the wage-gender gap when a female economist showed the gap to be , 2 \ % when experience , education , and number of years on the job are taken into account .
And , when a former head of the National Organization for Women New York City shows it is actually false .
[ iwf.org ] The reason men tend to make more in many professions is because men do harder and more dangerous jobs .
Men are more likely to do the nastier jobs , to work later , to work overtime , work odd hours , to travel for their job , and do all the most difficult things in a job than women .
Women are also more likely to choose jobs that are personally rewarding but pay less , such as working for non-profits .
The reason men make more than women is because men sacrifice more of their happiness , health , and self to their jobs than women do.Feminists are their own worst enemy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I am at it, it is very hard to take seriously a group that makes up statistics about domestic violence and the Super Bowl Sunday [snopes.com].
And, once the lie was exposed, the group has defended and justified the lie [fair.org].And, it is hard to take seriously a group that has been complaining about the wage-gender gap when a female economist showed the gap to be, 2\% when experience, education, and number of years on the job are taken into account.
And, when a former head of the National Organization for Women New York City shows it is actually false.
[iwf.org] The reason men tend to make more in many professions is because men do harder and more dangerous jobs.
Men are more likely to do the nastier jobs, to work later, to work overtime, work odd hours, to travel for their job, and do all the most difficult things in a job than women.
Women are also more likely to choose jobs that are personally rewarding but pay less, such as working for non-profits.
The reason men make more than women is because men sacrifice more of their happiness, health, and self to their jobs than women do.Feminists are their own worst enemy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723627</id>
	<title>When political correctness are removed...</title>
	<author>petrus4</author>
	<datestamp>1255339380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...this is what's left.</p><p><a href="http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm" title="womynkind.org">http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm</a> [womynkind.org]</p><p>To a couple of the women I've seen replying to this thread, the views expressed in the above link are completely fine, no doubt.  Completely acceptable.</p><p>That's justice, you see.  It's perfectly ok for women to express the sort of sickness in the above link, and yet supposedly, women are more compassionate.</p><p>Women can express the above; and yet war is the exclusive domain of men alone.  Women aren't capable of hate.  They're not capable of savagery.  They're not capable of vindictiveness.  They're certainly not capable of violence.</p><p>That's all just us guys, solely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...this is what 's left.http : //www.womynkind.org/scum.htm [ womynkind.org ] To a couple of the women I 've seen replying to this thread , the views expressed in the above link are completely fine , no doubt .
Completely acceptable.That 's justice , you see .
It 's perfectly ok for women to express the sort of sickness in the above link , and yet supposedly , women are more compassionate.Women can express the above ; and yet war is the exclusive domain of men alone .
Women are n't capable of hate .
They 're not capable of savagery .
They 're not capable of vindictiveness .
They 're certainly not capable of violence.That 's all just us guys , solely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...this is what's left.http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm [womynkind.org]To a couple of the women I've seen replying to this thread, the views expressed in the above link are completely fine, no doubt.
Completely acceptable.That's justice, you see.
It's perfectly ok for women to express the sort of sickness in the above link, and yet supposedly, women are more compassionate.Women can express the above; and yet war is the exclusive domain of men alone.
Women aren't capable of hate.
They're not capable of savagery.
They're not capable of vindictiveness.
They're certainly not capable of violence.That's all just us guys, solely.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720551</id>
	<title>I'll second the call for examples.</title>
	<author>khasim</author>
	<datestamp>1255370400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No one is denying that there are idiots out there. Just browse at -1 here. You'll see every kind of comment for every kind of 'ism that you're looking for.</p><p>But let's look are real EXAMPLES of real COMMENTS. Okay?</p><p>And since we're talking about FOSS, we can look at the kernel mailing list. Hmmmmm, not a lot of sexist comments there. Particularly when taken as a percentage of total comments.</p><p>So if only 1.5\% of developers are women<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but fewer than 0.1\% of comments on development mailing lists are sexist<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... what is the real "problem" that exists?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No one is denying that there are idiots out there .
Just browse at -1 here .
You 'll see every kind of comment for every kind of 'ism that you 're looking for.But let 's look are real EXAMPLES of real COMMENTS .
Okay ? And since we 're talking about FOSS , we can look at the kernel mailing list .
Hmmmmm , not a lot of sexist comments there .
Particularly when taken as a percentage of total comments.So if only 1.5 \ % of developers are women ... but fewer than 0.1 \ % of comments on development mailing lists are sexist ... what is the real " problem " that exists ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one is denying that there are idiots out there.
Just browse at -1 here.
You'll see every kind of comment for every kind of 'ism that you're looking for.But let's look are real EXAMPLES of real COMMENTS.
Okay?And since we're talking about FOSS, we can look at the kernel mailing list.
Hmmmmm, not a lot of sexist comments there.
Particularly when taken as a percentage of total comments.So if only 1.5\% of developers are women ... but fewer than 0.1\% of comments on development mailing lists are sexist ... what is the real "problem" that exists?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721415</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255373520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sexism is an attitude, it doesn't have to be directed at specific individuals. If DHH says "Speaking of presentations. I'd much rather we banished kung-fu kittens and went with beautiful women for the filler stock art. Works in ads!" that's sexism, even though he's not directing a denigrating comment to a specific woman.</p><p>Also: some people in FOSS actually leave the parents' basement and meet face-to-face. Shocking, I know.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sexism is an attitude , it does n't have to be directed at specific individuals .
If DHH says " Speaking of presentations .
I 'd much rather we banished kung-fu kittens and went with beautiful women for the filler stock art .
Works in ads !
" that 's sexism , even though he 's not directing a denigrating comment to a specific woman.Also : some people in FOSS actually leave the parents ' basement and meet face-to-face .
Shocking , I know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sexism is an attitude, it doesn't have to be directed at specific individuals.
If DHH says "Speaking of presentations.
I'd much rather we banished kung-fu kittens and went with beautiful women for the filler stock art.
Works in ads!
" that's sexism, even though he's not directing a denigrating comment to a specific woman.Also: some people in FOSS actually leave the parents' basement and meet face-to-face.
Shocking, I know.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722749</id>
	<title>What do you tell a FOSS with two black eyes?</title>
	<author>e2d2</author>
	<datestamp>1255378680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nothing you haven't told her twice already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nothing you have n't told her twice already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nothing you haven't told her twice already.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721083</id>
	<title>Past time for change</title>
	<author>PopeRatzo</author>
	<datestamp>1255372500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Unfortunately it seems that FOSS junkies did little better than the rest of the world with respect to sexism</p></div></blockquote><p>I think it's fair to say they've done a fair bit worse.  Most IT shops are Porky's without the good manners.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately it seems that FOSS junkies did little better than the rest of the world with respect to sexismI think it 's fair to say they 've done a fair bit worse .
Most IT shops are Porky 's without the good manners .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately it seems that FOSS junkies did little better than the rest of the world with respect to sexismI think it's fair to say they've done a fair bit worse.
Most IT shops are Porky's without the good manners.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29728313</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>Rick17JJ</author>
	<datestamp>1255366680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Where can I join this hypothetical group, consisting of 98.5\% women, where we all have a common shared interest in something? It would be great if some of them would actually be flirting with me.<br><br>Yes, I might need to tell a few of them "no thank you."  If I latter were to get married (and they did see my ring or already know), I would just say "sorry, I am married." Even then, I would still happily continue participating in the subject of our shared interest.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where can I join this hypothetical group , consisting of 98.5 \ % women , where we all have a common shared interest in something ?
It would be great if some of them would actually be flirting with me.Yes , I might need to tell a few of them " no thank you .
" If I latter were to get married ( and they did see my ring or already know ) , I would just say " sorry , I am married .
" Even then , I would still happily continue participating in the subject of our shared interest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where can I join this hypothetical group, consisting of 98.5\% women, where we all have a common shared interest in something?
It would be great if some of them would actually be flirting with me.Yes, I might need to tell a few of them "no thank you.
"  If I latter were to get married (and they did see my ring or already know), I would just say "sorry, I am married.
" Even then, I would still happily continue participating in the subject of our shared interest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720815</id>
	<title>Re:Here's two</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why is "therapist" is such a popular profession for women?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is " therapist " is such a popular profession for women ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is "therapist" is such a popular profession for women?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720527</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720919</id>
	<title>Newsflash!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Overweight, socially awkward men with poor hygiene resent women. They <i>really</i> resent women who are smarter than them or are better at the things around which they derive self-esteem.</p><p>The problem isn't that you aren't tolerant of women. The problem is that you're tolerant of the sad sacks who drive them away. FOSS needs a pecking order and it needs to keep the cretins at the bottom, where they belong. You're living <i>Revenge of the Nerds</i> but you're letting Booger call the shots.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Overweight , socially awkward men with poor hygiene resent women .
They really resent women who are smarter than them or are better at the things around which they derive self-esteem.The problem is n't that you are n't tolerant of women .
The problem is that you 're tolerant of the sad sacks who drive them away .
FOSS needs a pecking order and it needs to keep the cretins at the bottom , where they belong .
You 're living Revenge of the Nerds but you 're letting Booger call the shots .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Overweight, socially awkward men with poor hygiene resent women.
They really resent women who are smarter than them or are better at the things around which they derive self-esteem.The problem isn't that you aren't tolerant of women.
The problem is that you're tolerant of the sad sacks who drive them away.
FOSS needs a pecking order and it needs to keep the cretins at the bottom, where they belong.
You're living Revenge of the Nerds but you're letting Booger call the shots.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29729243</id>
	<title>Yawn</title>
	<author>codeButcher</author>
	<datestamp>1255465380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IT people are more socially inept than the norm.
</p><p>Next article please.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IT people are more socially inept than the norm .
Next article please .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT people are more socially inept than the norm.
Next article please.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29728499</id>
	<title>The Solution To Sexism in OSS</title>
	<author>hellop2</author>
	<datestamp>1255368480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Choose a non-gender-specific handle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Choose a non-gender-specific handle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Choose a non-gender-specific handle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727561</id>
	<title>Re:Feminism is destructive</title>
	<author>agnosticnixie</author>
	<datestamp>1255360020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I truly believe that racism and sexism are essentially dead with my generation</p></div><p>Because you would, of course, be the one who experiences the racism and the sexism and who'd know, right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I truly believe that racism and sexism are essentially dead with my generationBecause you would , of course , be the one who experiences the racism and the sexism and who 'd know , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I truly believe that racism and sexism are essentially dead with my generationBecause you would, of course, be the one who experiences the racism and the sexism and who'd know, right?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720981</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29728429</id>
	<title>Re:let me get this straight</title>
	<author>basicio</author>
	<datestamp>1255367580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You know, I somehow doubt 'homosexual' was the word used.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , I somehow doubt 'homosexual ' was the word used .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, I somehow doubt 'homosexual' was the word used.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721251</id>
	<title>let me get this straight</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255373040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In other words, women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.</p></div></blockquote><p>Because women don't volunteer their time for FOSS development, men are sexist?  Sorry, I just don't follow that logic.</p><blockquote><div><p>Because I took a feminist stance in public, I have been abused in every way possible -- being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, homosexual, and even a betrayer of the community.</p></div></blockquote><p>Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?  Great going, Bruce: show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In other words , women 's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.Because women do n't volunteer their time for FOSS development , men are sexist ?
Sorry , I just do n't follow that logic.Because I took a feminist stance in public , I have been abused in every way possible -- being called irrelevant , a saboteur , coward , homosexual , and even a betrayer of the community.Being called a " homosexual " is " abuse " ?
Great going , Bruce : show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In other words, women's participation in FOSS development is over seventeen times lower than it is in proprietary software development.Because women don't volunteer their time for FOSS development, men are sexist?
Sorry, I just don't follow that logic.Because I took a feminist stance in public, I have been abused in every way possible -- being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, homosexual, and even a betrayer of the community.Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?
Great going, Bruce: show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722065</id>
	<title>This is not the way to go</title>
	<author>Krahar</author>
	<datestamp>1255375740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is interesting to me that Bruce does not engage the criticism in his article other than to showcase it. Instead, it is implicit in his article that the mere fact of there being little recognition of the problem is itself damning evidence that there is a big problem. For all I know there might indeed be a huge problem, but the answer is not to vilify the people who make sexist remarks. This may make them shut up, yes, perhaps even apologize, and it will also make them resent what happened, sowing the seeds of actual resentment of women where nothing like that need have existed.
<br> <br>
Bruce says that it is no matter if people intend to be sexist. It is a huge difference, because when you attack people, they come to hate you (Bruce) and the horse you rode in on (women). If someone intends no slight to women, is this really the way to go? I say no. The answer is to friendly (!) and calmly (!) explain to someone why you (!) think that their behavior is a problem. What Bruce could do is to tell them that you are working to get more women into computers, and having the field feel welcoming to them, and that this person can help do that by thinking about whether what they are doing in future will offend women, and that you understand that no offense was intended. See how that will go over better?
<br> <br>
Somehow I think the way to get more women into this field is not to attack the men in the field on behalf of those women.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is interesting to me that Bruce does not engage the criticism in his article other than to showcase it .
Instead , it is implicit in his article that the mere fact of there being little recognition of the problem is itself damning evidence that there is a big problem .
For all I know there might indeed be a huge problem , but the answer is not to vilify the people who make sexist remarks .
This may make them shut up , yes , perhaps even apologize , and it will also make them resent what happened , sowing the seeds of actual resentment of women where nothing like that need have existed .
Bruce says that it is no matter if people intend to be sexist .
It is a huge difference , because when you attack people , they come to hate you ( Bruce ) and the horse you rode in on ( women ) .
If someone intends no slight to women , is this really the way to go ?
I say no .
The answer is to friendly ( !
) and calmly ( !
) explain to someone why you ( !
) think that their behavior is a problem .
What Bruce could do is to tell them that you are working to get more women into computers , and having the field feel welcoming to them , and that this person can help do that by thinking about whether what they are doing in future will offend women , and that you understand that no offense was intended .
See how that will go over better ?
Somehow I think the way to get more women into this field is not to attack the men in the field on behalf of those women .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is interesting to me that Bruce does not engage the criticism in his article other than to showcase it.
Instead, it is implicit in his article that the mere fact of there being little recognition of the problem is itself damning evidence that there is a big problem.
For all I know there might indeed be a huge problem, but the answer is not to vilify the people who make sexist remarks.
This may make them shut up, yes, perhaps even apologize, and it will also make them resent what happened, sowing the seeds of actual resentment of women where nothing like that need have existed.
Bruce says that it is no matter if people intend to be sexist.
It is a huge difference, because when you attack people, they come to hate you (Bruce) and the horse you rode in on (women).
If someone intends no slight to women, is this really the way to go?
I say no.
The answer is to friendly (!
) and calmly (!
) explain to someone why you (!
) think that their behavior is a problem.
What Bruce could do is to tell them that you are working to get more women into computers, and having the field feel welcoming to them, and that this person can help do that by thinking about whether what they are doing in future will offend women, and that you understand that no offense was intended.
See how that will go over better?
Somehow I think the way to get more women into this field is not to attack the men in the field on behalf of those women.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29733599</id>
	<title>Code does NOT contain genitailia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255456740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>n/t</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>n/t</tokentext>
<sentencetext>n/t</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29728415</id>
	<title>I've tried to interst my wife in coding...</title>
	<author>m6ack</author>
	<datestamp>1255367520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... but every time I ask her, she says she'd rather make me a sandwich.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... but every time I ask her , she says she 'd rather make me a sandwich .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... but every time I ask her, she says she'd rather make me a sandwich.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29730491</id>
	<title>Psychology, of a sort ...</title>
	<author>jandersen</author>
	<datestamp>1255440240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suppose it isn't all that strange that there has been such strong reactions; most men don't themselves feel that they look down on women, and it simply feels deeply unjust to be called "sexist". However, that doesn't in itself mean that one can't reasonably be described as a sexist - after all, just to pick the most extreme example, a rapist will also try to justify his actions with "But women like it" - clearly the perpetrator of a behaviour is not always the best judge of his/her own actions. (BTW, if you now feel extremely angry over my words, please read them again - I am not saying that being mildly sexist is the same as rape!)</p><p>I think the right attitude, if one sincerely doesn't want to be sexist, is to say "I don't intend to be sexist - if you think I am, please explain to me how".</p><p>All this goes for other kinds of bigotry as well; as the British National Party would say - "We are not racists, we just can't stand ". Bigotry is easy - one could almost say natural - and until we live in a better world, it is something we actively need to learn to avoid, every day of our lives.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suppose it is n't all that strange that there has been such strong reactions ; most men do n't themselves feel that they look down on women , and it simply feels deeply unjust to be called " sexist " .
However , that does n't in itself mean that one ca n't reasonably be described as a sexist - after all , just to pick the most extreme example , a rapist will also try to justify his actions with " But women like it " - clearly the perpetrator of a behaviour is not always the best judge of his/her own actions .
( BTW , if you now feel extremely angry over my words , please read them again - I am not saying that being mildly sexist is the same as rape !
) I think the right attitude , if one sincerely does n't want to be sexist , is to say " I do n't intend to be sexist - if you think I am , please explain to me how " .All this goes for other kinds of bigotry as well ; as the British National Party would say - " We are not racists , we just ca n't stand " .
Bigotry is easy - one could almost say natural - and until we live in a better world , it is something we actively need to learn to avoid , every day of our lives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suppose it isn't all that strange that there has been such strong reactions; most men don't themselves feel that they look down on women, and it simply feels deeply unjust to be called "sexist".
However, that doesn't in itself mean that one can't reasonably be described as a sexist - after all, just to pick the most extreme example, a rapist will also try to justify his actions with "But women like it" - clearly the perpetrator of a behaviour is not always the best judge of his/her own actions.
(BTW, if you now feel extremely angry over my words, please read them again - I am not saying that being mildly sexist is the same as rape!
)I think the right attitude, if one sincerely doesn't want to be sexist, is to say "I don't intend to be sexist - if you think I am, please explain to me how".All this goes for other kinds of bigotry as well; as the British National Party would say - "We are not racists, we just can't stand ".
Bigotry is easy - one could almost say natural - and until we live in a better world, it is something we actively need to learn to avoid, every day of our lives.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721749</id>
	<title>evidence?</title>
	<author>e\_hu\_man</author>
	<datestamp>1255374660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>many people seem to be looking for evidence of sexism.  this is the foss world, yes?  we can look for the evidence in the source code and documentation.  a quick grep through the docs folder for me turned up a few uses of exclusive "he" (though far outnumbered by inclusive "he/she" or "he or she") and no uses of exclusive "she," typically referring to the user.  of course, you'll have to filter out legitimate uses of exclusive "he" and "she," such as when referring to an actual person (typically a developer), but everyone here should be able to see how latent the issue is (or not) themselves.</htmltext>
<tokenext>many people seem to be looking for evidence of sexism .
this is the foss world , yes ?
we can look for the evidence in the source code and documentation .
a quick grep through the docs folder for me turned up a few uses of exclusive " he " ( though far outnumbered by inclusive " he/she " or " he or she " ) and no uses of exclusive " she , " typically referring to the user .
of course , you 'll have to filter out legitimate uses of exclusive " he " and " she , " such as when referring to an actual person ( typically a developer ) , but everyone here should be able to see how latent the issue is ( or not ) themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>many people seem to be looking for evidence of sexism.
this is the foss world, yes?
we can look for the evidence in the source code and documentation.
a quick grep through the docs folder for me turned up a few uses of exclusive "he" (though far outnumbered by inclusive "he/she" or "he or she") and no uses of exclusive "she," typically referring to the user.
of course, you'll have to filter out legitimate uses of exclusive "he" and "she," such as when referring to an actual person (typically a developer), but everyone here should be able to see how latent the issue is (or not) themselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721805</id>
	<title>Seriously dude..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255374840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if you type F/L/OSS one more time im gonna come down there and kick your ass</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if you type F/L/OSS one more time im gon na come down there and kick your ass</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if you type F/L/OSS one more time im gonna come down there and kick your ass</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725677</id>
	<title>So something I don't think I understand...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255348140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Women are complaining about the FOSS community being sexist towards them. Is that because ALL MEN in the FOSS community are sexist against ALL WOMEN, or is it just that women notice more when only a few men are sexist towards them?</p><p>I've been working rather extensively with a woman regarding Userbase (a wiki for KDE), and quite frankly I've treated her exactly like I've treated anyone else I've communicated and worked with towards a project. Does she notice that I'm NOT being racist, or is it more noticeable when someone else IS racist? Is she going to blame me for when that other person has been racist?</p><p>That's awfully what most of this argument is starting to sound like. The whole thing stinks to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Women are complaining about the FOSS community being sexist towards them .
Is that because ALL MEN in the FOSS community are sexist against ALL WOMEN , or is it just that women notice more when only a few men are sexist towards them ? I 've been working rather extensively with a woman regarding Userbase ( a wiki for KDE ) , and quite frankly I 've treated her exactly like I 've treated anyone else I 've communicated and worked with towards a project .
Does she notice that I 'm NOT being racist , or is it more noticeable when someone else IS racist ?
Is she going to blame me for when that other person has been racist ? That 's awfully what most of this argument is starting to sound like .
The whole thing stinks to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Women are complaining about the FOSS community being sexist towards them.
Is that because ALL MEN in the FOSS community are sexist against ALL WOMEN, or is it just that women notice more when only a few men are sexist towards them?I've been working rather extensively with a woman regarding Userbase (a wiki for KDE), and quite frankly I've treated her exactly like I've treated anyone else I've communicated and worked with towards a project.
Does she notice that I'm NOT being racist, or is it more noticeable when someone else IS racist?
Is she going to blame me for when that other person has been racist?That's awfully what most of this argument is starting to sound like.
The whole thing stinks to me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721897</id>
	<title>don't care</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255375200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry but the whole thing seems stupid to me.  Even if it's all totally true and FOSS is horribly sexist, what is anyone supposed to do about it?  This isn't even an organization, it's a disparate group of organizations and companies of varying size, research departments and IT students from around the world, and primarily, individuals whose only link to those organizations is a handle they post under on a message board somewhere.  The social dynamics of the kind of people that FOSS attracts (face it, largely highly intelligent, socially awkward males) produced a dynamic where sexist jokes are often made.  OK, well on slashdot everyone accuses one another of being a virgin living in his parents garage, that's pretty degrading too, and it's against men specifically.  If you don't like the community as it is but you really want to program in your free time start a project that attracts a different sort of person, you can sit around all day drinking green tea and talking about how vi would crush emacs if it weren't the object of male gaze or whatever you want to do.  This is like the story a while back about how using master/slave architecture was racist... I just don't care.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry but the whole thing seems stupid to me .
Even if it 's all totally true and FOSS is horribly sexist , what is anyone supposed to do about it ?
This is n't even an organization , it 's a disparate group of organizations and companies of varying size , research departments and IT students from around the world , and primarily , individuals whose only link to those organizations is a handle they post under on a message board somewhere .
The social dynamics of the kind of people that FOSS attracts ( face it , largely highly intelligent , socially awkward males ) produced a dynamic where sexist jokes are often made .
OK , well on slashdot everyone accuses one another of being a virgin living in his parents garage , that 's pretty degrading too , and it 's against men specifically .
If you do n't like the community as it is but you really want to program in your free time start a project that attracts a different sort of person , you can sit around all day drinking green tea and talking about how vi would crush emacs if it were n't the object of male gaze or whatever you want to do .
This is like the story a while back about how using master/slave architecture was racist... I just do n't care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry but the whole thing seems stupid to me.
Even if it's all totally true and FOSS is horribly sexist, what is anyone supposed to do about it?
This isn't even an organization, it's a disparate group of organizations and companies of varying size, research departments and IT students from around the world, and primarily, individuals whose only link to those organizations is a handle they post under on a message board somewhere.
The social dynamics of the kind of people that FOSS attracts (face it, largely highly intelligent, socially awkward males) produced a dynamic where sexist jokes are often made.
OK, well on slashdot everyone accuses one another of being a virgin living in his parents garage, that's pretty degrading too, and it's against men specifically.
If you don't like the community as it is but you really want to program in your free time start a project that attracts a different sort of person, you can sit around all day drinking green tea and talking about how vi would crush emacs if it weren't the object of male gaze or whatever you want to do.
This is like the story a while back about how using master/slave architecture was racist... I just don't care.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723983</id>
	<title>...sigh...</title>
	<author>gedrin</author>
	<datestamp>1255340460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Please remove your identity politics from my software.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Please remove your identity politics from my software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please remove your identity politics from my software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29729973</id>
	<title>Really?</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1255433760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We must be reading a different website.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We must be reading a different website .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We must be reading a different website.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724007</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723731</id>
	<title>It's about community</title>
	<author>jwhitener</author>
	<datestamp>1255339680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"There is a flip-side, though, that the original poster may have neglected to consider. F/L/OSS developers ARE amongst the brightest and the best, but they also have extraordinarily high levels of autistic behaviours, anti-social disorders, emotional instability and alienation."</p><p>I think that is a much more likely explanation than attributing the low numbers of woman in foss with sexism.  Not so much because of a 1 on 1 interaction where an anti-social male said something inappropriate to a female code contributor, but because a group of anti-social/autistic people are far less likely to form any sort of community.</p><p>A group of people working together on something isn't 'community' in its true sense.  As foss coding is very much a hobby for most people, I would imagine that a woman would be more interested in participating in a hobby that has a sense of community.</p><p>Look at the numbers of women mmorpg players versus the numbers of say.. women counter-strike players.  The game with the most community tends to have the most women.  The same could be said of the coding game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" There is a flip-side , though , that the original poster may have neglected to consider .
F/L/OSS developers ARE amongst the brightest and the best , but they also have extraordinarily high levels of autistic behaviours , anti-social disorders , emotional instability and alienation .
" I think that is a much more likely explanation than attributing the low numbers of woman in foss with sexism .
Not so much because of a 1 on 1 interaction where an anti-social male said something inappropriate to a female code contributor , but because a group of anti-social/autistic people are far less likely to form any sort of community.A group of people working together on something is n't 'community ' in its true sense .
As foss coding is very much a hobby for most people , I would imagine that a woman would be more interested in participating in a hobby that has a sense of community.Look at the numbers of women mmorpg players versus the numbers of say.. women counter-strike players .
The game with the most community tends to have the most women .
The same could be said of the coding game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"There is a flip-side, though, that the original poster may have neglected to consider.
F/L/OSS developers ARE amongst the brightest and the best, but they also have extraordinarily high levels of autistic behaviours, anti-social disorders, emotional instability and alienation.
"I think that is a much more likely explanation than attributing the low numbers of woman in foss with sexism.
Not so much because of a 1 on 1 interaction where an anti-social male said something inappropriate to a female code contributor, but because a group of anti-social/autistic people are far less likely to form any sort of community.A group of people working together on something isn't 'community' in its true sense.
As foss coding is very much a hobby for most people, I would imagine that a woman would be more interested in participating in a hobby that has a sense of community.Look at the numbers of women mmorpg players versus the numbers of say.. women counter-strike players.
The game with the most community tends to have the most women.
The same could be said of the coding game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721275</id>
	<title>Many in IT hate irrationality, which sexismism is.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255373100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many in IT are rational people. Rational people are often disdainful of perceived irrationality.</p><p>The "sexism detection movement" is irrational. This is because it fails to define sexism in a way which can be applied BOTH by women on the actions of men, and by men on the actions of women.</p><p>For example, if a man writes a book where the men are heroes and all the women are evil, backstabbing, lazy sluts, then he would be described as a sexist against women.</p><p>When Stieg Larsson writes a book where all the men are are evil, backstabbing, lazy sluts, then he isn't sexist at all. In fact, one of the female characters has "sex" by walking into the room of a man, climbing on top of him <b>to his great surprise and shock and riding him until she is satisfied</b>. Whoa hey - surprise sex? MEN LOVE IT! ALL MEN! ALL MEN LOVE HAVING SEX WITH ANY WOMEN WHO WANTS TO RIDE THEM AT ANY POINT IN TIME!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/irony.</p><p>Hence, the sexism movement is irrational and idiotic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many in IT are rational people .
Rational people are often disdainful of perceived irrationality.The " sexism detection movement " is irrational .
This is because it fails to define sexism in a way which can be applied BOTH by women on the actions of men , and by men on the actions of women.For example , if a man writes a book where the men are heroes and all the women are evil , backstabbing , lazy sluts , then he would be described as a sexist against women.When Stieg Larsson writes a book where all the men are are evil , backstabbing , lazy sluts , then he is n't sexist at all .
In fact , one of the female characters has " sex " by walking into the room of a man , climbing on top of him to his great surprise and shock and riding him until she is satisfied .
Whoa hey - surprise sex ?
MEN LOVE IT !
ALL MEN !
ALL MEN LOVE HAVING SEX WITH ANY WOMEN WHO WANTS TO RIDE THEM AT ANY POINT IN TIME !
/irony.Hence , the sexism movement is irrational and idiotic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many in IT are rational people.
Rational people are often disdainful of perceived irrationality.The "sexism detection movement" is irrational.
This is because it fails to define sexism in a way which can be applied BOTH by women on the actions of men, and by men on the actions of women.For example, if a man writes a book where the men are heroes and all the women are evil, backstabbing, lazy sluts, then he would be described as a sexist against women.When Stieg Larsson writes a book where all the men are are evil, backstabbing, lazy sluts, then he isn't sexist at all.
In fact, one of the female characters has "sex" by walking into the room of a man, climbing on top of him to his great surprise and shock and riding him until she is satisfied.
Whoa hey - surprise sex?
MEN LOVE IT!
ALL MEN!
ALL MEN LOVE HAVING SEX WITH ANY WOMEN WHO WANTS TO RIDE THEM AT ANY POINT IN TIME!
/irony.Hence, the sexism movement is irrational and idiotic.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721035</id>
	<title>There seems to be confusion...</title>
	<author>ph0rk</author>
	<datestamp>1255372380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>over the meanings of sex<b>ism</b> and sex<b>ist</b>.
<br>
Given that FOSS is not a for-profit venture, there can be as much discrimination as the project leaders want. Don't like it? Write your own project.
<br> <br>
I hear my local bar has lots of sexist remarks spoken, too.</htmltext>
<tokenext>over the meanings of sexism and sexist .
Given that FOSS is not a for-profit venture , there can be as much discrimination as the project leaders want .
Do n't like it ?
Write your own project .
I hear my local bar has lots of sexist remarks spoken , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>over the meanings of sexism and sexist.
Given that FOSS is not a for-profit venture, there can be as much discrimination as the project leaders want.
Don't like it?
Write your own project.
I hear my local bar has lots of sexist remarks spoken, too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29729035</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>azgard</author>
	<datestamp>1255376340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even if we consider the word "virgin" as being strictly female (which is not quite true in English, as opposed to for example my native tongue), it was basically a sarcastic parody on sexism in religion, which you obviously missed.</p><p>Besides, I don't believe RMS is sexist. Look at his blog - he is \_obsessed\_ with human rights, democracy and equality. You are seeing things you want see.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if we consider the word " virgin " as being strictly female ( which is not quite true in English , as opposed to for example my native tongue ) , it was basically a sarcastic parody on sexism in religion , which you obviously missed.Besides , I do n't believe RMS is sexist .
Look at his blog - he is \ _obsessed \ _ with human rights , democracy and equality .
You are seeing things you want see .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if we consider the word "virgin" as being strictly female (which is not quite true in English, as opposed to for example my native tongue), it was basically a sarcastic parody on sexism in religion, which you obviously missed.Besides, I don't believe RMS is sexist.
Look at his blog - he is \_obsessed\_ with human rights, democracy and equality.
You are seeing things you want see.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720775</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721367</id>
	<title>I think it would help to define terms.</title>
	<author>germansausage</author>
	<datestamp>1255373400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about this.<br> <br> First you define \_exactly\_ what you mean by sexism. Give me some concrete examples so I can understand.<br> <br> Then tell me exactly how \_I\_ am being sexist.<br> <br> I may agree with your definition of sexist and I may agree that my behaviour is sexist, and I may even decide to change that behaviour. This can only be a good thing.<br> <br> However, if all you have is a vague and general accusation i.e "FOSS is sexist!!" don't be surprised if you get a whole lot of irate denial back at you. <br> <br> Also if you state "only 1 \% of FOSS devs are women, therefore FOSS must be sexist" you are making a logical leap that many of us will not follow.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about this .
First you define \ _exactly \ _ what you mean by sexism .
Give me some concrete examples so I can understand .
Then tell me exactly how \ _I \ _ am being sexist .
I may agree with your definition of sexist and I may agree that my behaviour is sexist , and I may even decide to change that behaviour .
This can only be a good thing .
However , if all you have is a vague and general accusation i.e " FOSS is sexist ! !
" do n't be surprised if you get a whole lot of irate denial back at you .
Also if you state " only 1 \ % of FOSS devs are women , therefore FOSS must be sexist " you are making a logical leap that many of us will not follow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about this.
First you define \_exactly\_ what you mean by sexism.
Give me some concrete examples so I can understand.
Then tell me exactly how \_I\_ am being sexist.
I may agree with your definition of sexist and I may agree that my behaviour is sexist, and I may even decide to change that behaviour.
This can only be a good thing.
However, if all you have is a vague and general accusation i.e "FOSS is sexist!!
" don't be surprised if you get a whole lot of irate denial back at you.
Also if you state "only 1 \% of FOSS devs are women, therefore FOSS must be sexist" you are making a logical leap that many of us will not follow.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721229</id>
	<title>Sexism is so pervasive we don't see it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255372980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It shouldn't be surprising that there is sexism of one sort or another in FOSS development. It's everywhere, and at all levels of Western society.</p><p>Sexism is so pervasive that we have a hard time recognizing all but the most obvious forms. And yet most of us recognize that it is an undesirable human quality, like bigotry or religious fundamentalism. So when we are called on sexist behavior, our first reaction is to get massively defensive and deny the problem. We're not sexist! We think sexism is evil! Some of my best friends are women!</p><p>Uh-huh. The problem is, the person calling you on your sexism ISN'T making it up. From her point of view, denying it just means you're as clueless as all the other men.</p><p>Guys, it doesn't matter whether your intentions are good. Sometimes you will say or do something sexist. You probably didn't mean too, you'll probably be really embarrassed to find out, but that doesn't change anything. The best thing to do is acknowledge, apologize, and try to accept that what you said or did was sexist. Even if you don't know why. Even if you think it wasn't.</p><p>Denying that what you did was sexist is the same thing as saying that what you did was fair because you played by the rules. It's not fair if the rules aren't fair. And the rules, in our society, aren't fair to women. Until we invent some new rules, you're going to have to cope with on-the-fly correction.</p><p>DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY. Apologize and think and try to do better next time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It should n't be surprising that there is sexism of one sort or another in FOSS development .
It 's everywhere , and at all levels of Western society.Sexism is so pervasive that we have a hard time recognizing all but the most obvious forms .
And yet most of us recognize that it is an undesirable human quality , like bigotry or religious fundamentalism .
So when we are called on sexist behavior , our first reaction is to get massively defensive and deny the problem .
We 're not sexist !
We think sexism is evil !
Some of my best friends are women ! Uh-huh .
The problem is , the person calling you on your sexism IS N'T making it up .
From her point of view , denying it just means you 're as clueless as all the other men.Guys , it does n't matter whether your intentions are good .
Sometimes you will say or do something sexist .
You probably did n't mean too , you 'll probably be really embarrassed to find out , but that does n't change anything .
The best thing to do is acknowledge , apologize , and try to accept that what you said or did was sexist .
Even if you do n't know why .
Even if you think it was n't.Denying that what you did was sexist is the same thing as saying that what you did was fair because you played by the rules .
It 's not fair if the rules are n't fair .
And the rules , in our society , are n't fair to women .
Until we invent some new rules , you 're going to have to cope with on-the-fly correction.DO N'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY .
Apologize and think and try to do better next time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It shouldn't be surprising that there is sexism of one sort or another in FOSS development.
It's everywhere, and at all levels of Western society.Sexism is so pervasive that we have a hard time recognizing all but the most obvious forms.
And yet most of us recognize that it is an undesirable human quality, like bigotry or religious fundamentalism.
So when we are called on sexist behavior, our first reaction is to get massively defensive and deny the problem.
We're not sexist!
We think sexism is evil!
Some of my best friends are women!Uh-huh.
The problem is, the person calling you on your sexism ISN'T making it up.
From her point of view, denying it just means you're as clueless as all the other men.Guys, it doesn't matter whether your intentions are good.
Sometimes you will say or do something sexist.
You probably didn't mean too, you'll probably be really embarrassed to find out, but that doesn't change anything.
The best thing to do is acknowledge, apologize, and try to accept that what you said or did was sexist.
Even if you don't know why.
Even if you think it wasn't.Denying that what you did was sexist is the same thing as saying that what you did was fair because you played by the rules.
It's not fair if the rules aren't fair.
And the rules, in our society, aren't fair to women.
Until we invent some new rules, you're going to have to cope with on-the-fly correction.DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY.
Apologize and think and try to do better next time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724227</id>
	<title>Problem Solved...</title>
	<author>Follier</author>
	<datestamp>1255341480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>More than anything, work gets in the way of coding fer FOSS.  Chick's <em>should</em> dominate the field... oh well, blame the feminists.  There would no longer be issue if women just stayed in the home, taking care of the kids and working on that next open source port of mahjong.<br> <br> <br> <strong>You're Welcome....</strong></htmltext>
<tokenext>More than anything , work gets in the way of coding fer FOSS .
Chick 's should dominate the field... oh well , blame the feminists .
There would no longer be issue if women just stayed in the home , taking care of the kids and working on that next open source port of mahjong .
You 're Welcome... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More than anything, work gets in the way of coding fer FOSS.
Chick's should dominate the field... oh well, blame the feminists.
There would no longer be issue if women just stayed in the home, taking care of the kids and working on that next open source port of mahjong.
You're Welcome....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722369</id>
	<title>Sexism and Thick Skin</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255377060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So called "sexism" in FOSS, etc., is the inevitable self perpetuating result of having mostly guys in a closed environment. When not actively working, guys talk about guy things and if you are a woman, many of the typical guy topics of conversation can make you uncomfortable. On the other hand, if a woman happens to have a thick skin, and can sling it as well as well as take it, they're bound to do quite well, have their contributions recognized, etc.</p><p>That's the bottom line. To succeed in FOSS as a woman, you have to have a thick skin, whereas if you are a man, thick skin isn't quite as necessary. Voila, instant gender imbalance.</p><p>I have a thick skin, and therefore I succeed. On a purely personal note, I don't have much sympathy for whiny people who can't take it, male or female. Everyone should be less sensitive to personal affronts, regardless of gender.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So called " sexism " in FOSS , etc. , is the inevitable self perpetuating result of having mostly guys in a closed environment .
When not actively working , guys talk about guy things and if you are a woman , many of the typical guy topics of conversation can make you uncomfortable .
On the other hand , if a woman happens to have a thick skin , and can sling it as well as well as take it , they 're bound to do quite well , have their contributions recognized , etc.That 's the bottom line .
To succeed in FOSS as a woman , you have to have a thick skin , whereas if you are a man , thick skin is n't quite as necessary .
Voila , instant gender imbalance.I have a thick skin , and therefore I succeed .
On a purely personal note , I do n't have much sympathy for whiny people who ca n't take it , male or female .
Everyone should be less sensitive to personal affronts , regardless of gender .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So called "sexism" in FOSS, etc., is the inevitable self perpetuating result of having mostly guys in a closed environment.
When not actively working, guys talk about guy things and if you are a woman, many of the typical guy topics of conversation can make you uncomfortable.
On the other hand, if a woman happens to have a thick skin, and can sling it as well as well as take it, they're bound to do quite well, have their contributions recognized, etc.That's the bottom line.
To succeed in FOSS as a woman, you have to have a thick skin, whereas if you are a man, thick skin isn't quite as necessary.
Voila, instant gender imbalance.I have a thick skin, and therefore I succeed.
On a purely personal note, I don't have much sympathy for whiny people who can't take it, male or female.
Everyone should be less sensitive to personal affronts, regardless of gender.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722615</id>
	<title>FOSS community is one large fraternity</title>
	<author>jaywhy</author>
	<datestamp>1255378140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The technology industry, especially the FOSS community possibly because of its skewed younger demographic, is one large fraternity with avert and subtextual sexism at its heart.</p><p>One of course could lay the blame on internet anonymity or relegate the problem to just a small minority of actors, but you&rsquo;d just be lying to yourself and ignoring the utterly pervasive sexist and fraternity like atmosphere that pervades throughout the whole FOSS community and the technology community at large.  Code might be judged in open source projects by merit only, but that is as far as the egalitarian spirit goes.  Not a single women in the technology industry, is judged by the wider male audience on her merits; instead it is how hot she is, or how she got her job because of her looks, or any other number of sexist judgements.</p><p>The problem doesn&rsquo;t just stop there.  It's the disparaging jokes, the sexual innuendo, the frat house culture, all of which we as a community seem to except and adopt as the social norm.  It is a larger transgression to disparage some meaningless technology idea or method, than to spout sexist filth.</p><p>We have turned our community over to sexist assholes, not by any direct vote or action but by simply excepting herd-like the current social norms of the FOSS community.  We really should be ashamed of ourselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The technology industry , especially the FOSS community possibly because of its skewed younger demographic , is one large fraternity with avert and subtextual sexism at its heart.One of course could lay the blame on internet anonymity or relegate the problem to just a small minority of actors , but you    d just be lying to yourself and ignoring the utterly pervasive sexist and fraternity like atmosphere that pervades throughout the whole FOSS community and the technology community at large .
Code might be judged in open source projects by merit only , but that is as far as the egalitarian spirit goes .
Not a single women in the technology industry , is judged by the wider male audience on her merits ; instead it is how hot she is , or how she got her job because of her looks , or any other number of sexist judgements.The problem doesn    t just stop there .
It 's the disparaging jokes , the sexual innuendo , the frat house culture , all of which we as a community seem to except and adopt as the social norm .
It is a larger transgression to disparage some meaningless technology idea or method , than to spout sexist filth.We have turned our community over to sexist assholes , not by any direct vote or action but by simply excepting herd-like the current social norms of the FOSS community .
We really should be ashamed of ourselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The technology industry, especially the FOSS community possibly because of its skewed younger demographic, is one large fraternity with avert and subtextual sexism at its heart.One of course could lay the blame on internet anonymity or relegate the problem to just a small minority of actors, but you’d just be lying to yourself and ignoring the utterly pervasive sexist and fraternity like atmosphere that pervades throughout the whole FOSS community and the technology community at large.
Code might be judged in open source projects by merit only, but that is as far as the egalitarian spirit goes.
Not a single women in the technology industry, is judged by the wider male audience on her merits; instead it is how hot she is, or how she got her job because of her looks, or any other number of sexist judgements.The problem doesn’t just stop there.
It's the disparaging jokes, the sexual innuendo, the frat house culture, all of which we as a community seem to except and adopt as the social norm.
It is a larger transgression to disparage some meaningless technology idea or method, than to spout sexist filth.We have turned our community over to sexist assholes, not by any direct vote or action but by simply excepting herd-like the current social norms of the FOSS community.
We really should be ashamed of ourselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721045</id>
	<title>Geek Hobbies?</title>
	<author>Jaysyn</author>
	<datestamp>1255372440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is there a higher percentage of women into RC racing, model rocketry, HAM radio or amateur astronomy?  Most "geeky" chicks I know just read a lot &amp; might play video games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is there a higher percentage of women into RC racing , model rocketry , HAM radio or amateur astronomy ?
Most " geeky " chicks I know just read a lot &amp; might play video games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is there a higher percentage of women into RC racing, model rocketry, HAM radio or amateur astronomy?
Most "geeky" chicks I know just read a lot &amp; might play video games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722777</id>
	<title>Who isn't a sexist?</title>
	<author>rocker\_wannabe</author>
	<datestamp>1255378800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>According to Merriam-Webster sexism is either "prejudice or discrimination based on sex" or "behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex"</p><p>As far as the first definition, I haven't found anyone that didn't think people of their sex, male or female, wasn't superior to the other sex.  I don't think there is much argument that men and women think differently and can't possibly identify with the opposite sex except in some narrow way.  If you have learned to function with the abilities that come with your particular gender then your ego, in the healthy, clinical sense, will value those abilities.  You can only evaluate life in the terms that you understand and can identify with so the other sex seems inferior just because they are lacking something that you, necessarily, consider valuable.</p><p>As far as the second condition, we all cling to stereotypes to help us function.  We have to start somewhere in our relationships with others and in the beginning, all we know is probably what they look like and their gender.  Based on past relationships we have built up some expectations, good and bad, for each gender and have to act on that until we discover more information.  It's just bad luck for the first competent female programmer you meet if you're a guy who has never met a woman who had the slightest interest in programming or was any good at it.  That guy might not think it was worth his time to find out if the female was good at programming or not because the odds favor finding a guy that is good at programming.</p><p>The whole concept of forcing people not to be sexist, or racist, or communist, or whatever "ist" they are is just not workable.  People will change their overt behavior but not their belief.  All it means is that people will be forced to lie to you to avoid punishment.</p><p>It sometimes takes a long time but people need to work out for themselves that their belief system is wrong and choose to make a change.  Also, if people had the maturity and guts to find the community that works for them rather than trying to fight everyone that doesn't see things their way we would have a lot fewer problems.  We already have laws against actions that hurt other people.  What we don't need are "thought" laws that punish people for bad thinking that hurt feelings.  It's time for more people to have some faith that there is a place, somewhere, that works for them. To summarize: STOP WHINING!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>According to Merriam-Webster sexism is either " prejudice or discrimination based on sex " or " behavior , conditions , or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex " As far as the first definition , I have n't found anyone that did n't think people of their sex , male or female , was n't superior to the other sex .
I do n't think there is much argument that men and women think differently and ca n't possibly identify with the opposite sex except in some narrow way .
If you have learned to function with the abilities that come with your particular gender then your ego , in the healthy , clinical sense , will value those abilities .
You can only evaluate life in the terms that you understand and can identify with so the other sex seems inferior just because they are lacking something that you , necessarily , consider valuable.As far as the second condition , we all cling to stereotypes to help us function .
We have to start somewhere in our relationships with others and in the beginning , all we know is probably what they look like and their gender .
Based on past relationships we have built up some expectations , good and bad , for each gender and have to act on that until we discover more information .
It 's just bad luck for the first competent female programmer you meet if you 're a guy who has never met a woman who had the slightest interest in programming or was any good at it .
That guy might not think it was worth his time to find out if the female was good at programming or not because the odds favor finding a guy that is good at programming.The whole concept of forcing people not to be sexist , or racist , or communist , or whatever " ist " they are is just not workable .
People will change their overt behavior but not their belief .
All it means is that people will be forced to lie to you to avoid punishment.It sometimes takes a long time but people need to work out for themselves that their belief system is wrong and choose to make a change .
Also , if people had the maturity and guts to find the community that works for them rather than trying to fight everyone that does n't see things their way we would have a lot fewer problems .
We already have laws against actions that hurt other people .
What we do n't need are " thought " laws that punish people for bad thinking that hurt feelings .
It 's time for more people to have some faith that there is a place , somewhere , that works for them .
To summarize : STOP WHINING ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to Merriam-Webster sexism is either "prejudice or discrimination based on sex" or "behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex"As far as the first definition, I haven't found anyone that didn't think people of their sex, male or female, wasn't superior to the other sex.
I don't think there is much argument that men and women think differently and can't possibly identify with the opposite sex except in some narrow way.
If you have learned to function with the abilities that come with your particular gender then your ego, in the healthy, clinical sense, will value those abilities.
You can only evaluate life in the terms that you understand and can identify with so the other sex seems inferior just because they are lacking something that you, necessarily, consider valuable.As far as the second condition, we all cling to stereotypes to help us function.
We have to start somewhere in our relationships with others and in the beginning, all we know is probably what they look like and their gender.
Based on past relationships we have built up some expectations, good and bad, for each gender and have to act on that until we discover more information.
It's just bad luck for the first competent female programmer you meet if you're a guy who has never met a woman who had the slightest interest in programming or was any good at it.
That guy might not think it was worth his time to find out if the female was good at programming or not because the odds favor finding a guy that is good at programming.The whole concept of forcing people not to be sexist, or racist, or communist, or whatever "ist" they are is just not workable.
People will change their overt behavior but not their belief.
All it means is that people will be forced to lie to you to avoid punishment.It sometimes takes a long time but people need to work out for themselves that their belief system is wrong and choose to make a change.
Also, if people had the maturity and guts to find the community that works for them rather than trying to fight everyone that doesn't see things their way we would have a lot fewer problems.
We already have laws against actions that hurt other people.
What we don't need are "thought" laws that punish people for bad thinking that hurt feelings.
It's time for more people to have some faith that there is a place, somewhere, that works for them.
To summarize: STOP WHINING!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</id>
	<title>Oh brother.</title>
	<author>superdana</author>
	<datestamp>1255379100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is quite amusing to read an entire page of comments by men who think that their gender doesn't limit their perspective on this issue. That demonstrates the very root of the problem: maleness is still the default, the essential; a woman's perspective is considered especially different from a man's but the reverse is never true. With very few exceptions, all of the comments on this article reveal an attitude that the male perspective is complete and true while the female perspective is a special subset.<br>
<br>
Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet, so this conversation is basically hopeless no matter what. But let me share with you some anti-feminist clich&#233;s (courtesy of jezebel.com) so we can at least get them out of the way now.<ol>
<li> <b>Feminists can't take a joke.</b> The problem is not that feminists can't take a joke. (We can.) The problem is that you can't take feminists seriously.</li><li> <b>Some girls like [X], so it must be okay.</b> Men often disagree on things. Women do too. One woman's disagreement does not invalidate the opinions of every other woman.</li><li> <b>Criticizing misogyny is a waste of time.</b> This might actually be true here.</li><li> <b>Feminists have no lives.</b> The implication here seems to be that feminists had to have suffered some great personal disappointment. Sorry, no; I just have to endure cat calls from sleazy strangers on my walk to work, get interrupted in meetings (and then get pigeonholed as a bitch for standing up for myself), and frequently have to put up with people who are blind to their own privilege. I really, really wish that my having a life would make this all stop.</li></ol><p>
This post will no doubt get modded down to -1 practically instantaneously. But I don't care, because this is my industry too, and until you all get it, I won't be silent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is quite amusing to read an entire page of comments by men who think that their gender does n't limit their perspective on this issue .
That demonstrates the very root of the problem : maleness is still the default , the essential ; a woman 's perspective is considered especially different from a man 's but the reverse is never true .
With very few exceptions , all of the comments on this article reveal an attitude that the male perspective is complete and true while the female perspective is a special subset .
Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet , so this conversation is basically hopeless no matter what .
But let me share with you some anti-feminist clich   s ( courtesy of jezebel.com ) so we can at least get them out of the way now .
Feminists ca n't take a joke .
The problem is not that feminists ca n't take a joke .
( We can .
) The problem is that you ca n't take feminists seriously .
Some girls like [ X ] , so it must be okay .
Men often disagree on things .
Women do too .
One woman 's disagreement does not invalidate the opinions of every other woman .
Criticizing misogyny is a waste of time .
This might actually be true here .
Feminists have no lives .
The implication here seems to be that feminists had to have suffered some great personal disappointment .
Sorry , no ; I just have to endure cat calls from sleazy strangers on my walk to work , get interrupted in meetings ( and then get pigeonholed as a bitch for standing up for myself ) , and frequently have to put up with people who are blind to their own privilege .
I really , really wish that my having a life would make this all stop .
This post will no doubt get modded down to -1 practically instantaneously .
But I do n't care , because this is my industry too , and until you all get it , I wo n't be silent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is quite amusing to read an entire page of comments by men who think that their gender doesn't limit their perspective on this issue.
That demonstrates the very root of the problem: maleness is still the default, the essential; a woman's perspective is considered especially different from a man's but the reverse is never true.
With very few exceptions, all of the comments on this article reveal an attitude that the male perspective is complete and true while the female perspective is a special subset.
Slashdot is one of the least female-friendly places on the Internet, so this conversation is basically hopeless no matter what.
But let me share with you some anti-feminist clichés (courtesy of jezebel.com) so we can at least get them out of the way now.
Feminists can't take a joke.
The problem is not that feminists can't take a joke.
(We can.
) The problem is that you can't take feminists seriously.
Some girls like [X], so it must be okay.
Men often disagree on things.
Women do too.
One woman's disagreement does not invalidate the opinions of every other woman.
Criticizing misogyny is a waste of time.
This might actually be true here.
Feminists have no lives.
The implication here seems to be that feminists had to have suffered some great personal disappointment.
Sorry, no; I just have to endure cat calls from sleazy strangers on my walk to work, get interrupted in meetings (and then get pigeonholed as a bitch for standing up for myself), and frequently have to put up with people who are blind to their own privilege.
I really, really wish that my having a life would make this all stop.
This post will no doubt get modded down to -1 practically instantaneously.
But I don't care, because this is my industry too, and until you all get it, I won't be silent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722639</id>
	<title>Thank you social stereotypes</title>
	<author>Physix</author>
	<datestamp>1255378200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Congratulations on scratching the surface of a much bigger problem: why aren't there an equal number of women in technology careers as there are men?  Typically men are more interested in electromechanical things because it's forced down our throughts from day 1.  If you wonder what I'm talking about, when was the last time you saw someone buying their son a doll instead of a toy car?  When daughters are born we dress them in pink and give them baby dolls to play with (or similar, I'm speaking generaly).  When sons are born we dress them in blue and provide them with trucks and trains.  Why?  Because these fit our preconcieved images of boys and girls (read: it's not something we do conciously).  These actions are also self reinforcing: the more little boys we see with planes and trains, the more we think they need planes and trains.  To bring my point home, if you want to see more females in technology (both career and hobby wise) expose them to it as children and provide them with equal opportunities to explore it.

My goal: to raise a daughter who's writing Android apps for the elementary school science fair.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Congratulations on scratching the surface of a much bigger problem : why are n't there an equal number of women in technology careers as there are men ?
Typically men are more interested in electromechanical things because it 's forced down our throughts from day 1 .
If you wonder what I 'm talking about , when was the last time you saw someone buying their son a doll instead of a toy car ?
When daughters are born we dress them in pink and give them baby dolls to play with ( or similar , I 'm speaking generaly ) .
When sons are born we dress them in blue and provide them with trucks and trains .
Why ? Because these fit our preconcieved images of boys and girls ( read : it 's not something we do conciously ) .
These actions are also self reinforcing : the more little boys we see with planes and trains , the more we think they need planes and trains .
To bring my point home , if you want to see more females in technology ( both career and hobby wise ) expose them to it as children and provide them with equal opportunities to explore it .
My goal : to raise a daughter who 's writing Android apps for the elementary school science fair .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Congratulations on scratching the surface of a much bigger problem: why aren't there an equal number of women in technology careers as there are men?
Typically men are more interested in electromechanical things because it's forced down our throughts from day 1.
If you wonder what I'm talking about, when was the last time you saw someone buying their son a doll instead of a toy car?
When daughters are born we dress them in pink and give them baby dolls to play with (or similar, I'm speaking generaly).
When sons are born we dress them in blue and provide them with trucks and trains.
Why?  Because these fit our preconcieved images of boys and girls (read: it's not something we do conciously).
These actions are also self reinforcing: the more little boys we see with planes and trains, the more we think they need planes and trains.
To bring my point home, if you want to see more females in technology (both career and hobby wise) expose them to it as children and provide them with equal opportunities to explore it.
My goal: to raise a daughter who's writing Android apps for the elementary school science fair.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722763</id>
	<title>Oh the irony! *head explodes*</title>
	<author>Schraegstrichpunkt</author>
	<datestamp>1255378740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have been <strong>abused</strong> in every way possible &mdash; being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, <strong>homosexual</strong>, and even a betrayer of the community.</p></div><p>...</p><p>So... We have an anti-gay bigot calling people sexist?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have been abused in every way possible    being called irrelevant , a saboteur , coward , homosexual , and even a betrayer of the community....So... We have an anti-gay bigot calling people sexist ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have been abused in every way possible — being called irrelevant, a saboteur, coward, homosexual, and even a betrayer of the community....So... We have an anti-gay bigot calling people sexist?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724233</id>
	<title>Re:Sexism is so pervasive we don't see it</title>
	<author>Cederic</author>
	<datestamp>1255341540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And the rules, in our society, aren't fair to women.</p></div><p>So that's why women score higher in exams than boys these days?<br>Why women get better degrees?<br>Why women earn more per hour for part-time work?<br>Why women get a year off for a new child and men get two weeks? (In the UK; Denmark has a fairer system)<br>Why men are more likely to be assaulted than women?<br>Why men under 25 are more likely to be victims of domestic violence than women?<br>Why women claiming rape get anonymity while the men they accuse get named in the press, even if the woman made the accusation up?<br>Why men are more likely to commit suicide than women?</p><p>Too fucking right I'm taking it personally.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And the rules , in our society , are n't fair to women.So that 's why women score higher in exams than boys these days ? Why women get better degrees ? Why women earn more per hour for part-time work ? Why women get a year off for a new child and men get two weeks ?
( In the UK ; Denmark has a fairer system ) Why men are more likely to be assaulted than women ? Why men under 25 are more likely to be victims of domestic violence than women ? Why women claiming rape get anonymity while the men they accuse get named in the press , even if the woman made the accusation up ? Why men are more likely to commit suicide than women ? Too fucking right I 'm taking it personally .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the rules, in our society, aren't fair to women.So that's why women score higher in exams than boys these days?Why women get better degrees?Why women earn more per hour for part-time work?Why women get a year off for a new child and men get two weeks?
(In the UK; Denmark has a fairer system)Why men are more likely to be assaulted than women?Why men under 25 are more likely to be victims of domestic violence than women?Why women claiming rape get anonymity while the men they accuse get named in the press, even if the woman made the accusation up?Why men are more likely to commit suicide than women?Too fucking right I'm taking it personally.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720681</id>
	<title>How is asking a woman out for a date sexist?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He mentions geeks asking peer women out for a date as an example for being sexistic. WTF?<br>A single woman amoung dozens of men actually is likely to be asked out for a date more often than each man. How is that sexistic?</p><p>That aside I presume this is a vocal few distorting perception of the majority. With feminists and 'manly' programmers alike.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He mentions geeks asking peer women out for a date as an example for being sexistic .
WTF ? A single woman amoung dozens of men actually is likely to be asked out for a date more often than each man .
How is that sexistic ? That aside I presume this is a vocal few distorting perception of the majority .
With feminists and 'manly ' programmers alike .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He mentions geeks asking peer women out for a date as an example for being sexistic.
WTF?A single woman amoung dozens of men actually is likely to be asked out for a date more often than each man.
How is that sexistic?That aside I presume this is a vocal few distorting perception of the majority.
With feminists and 'manly' programmers alike.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29729543</id>
	<title>Re:let me get this straight</title>
	<author>BarMonger</author>
	<datestamp>1255426800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?</p></div><p>Yes it is. If the person calling him a homosexual means it in an abusive way.<br>Just like being called a coward, even if he is a coward. Or when you call an idiot, an idiot. It's still abuse.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Being called a " homosexual " is " abuse " ? Yes it is .
If the person calling him a homosexual means it in an abusive way.Just like being called a coward , even if he is a coward .
Or when you call an idiot , an idiot .
It 's still abuse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?Yes it is.
If the person calling him a homosexual means it in an abusive way.Just like being called a coward, even if he is a coward.
Or when you call an idiot, an idiot.
It's still abuse.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29724047</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>qc\_dk</author>
	<datestamp>1255340760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p> Or, if you prefer, listen to the horror stories female developers tell about sexist remarks or being asked out for dates.</p></div><p>Making sexist remarks, ok, I can understand how that might be seen as being sexist. But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour?</p></div><p>You obviously haven't read the feminist manifesto. It's sexist because it's wrong to be a man.</p><p>Now, feminists, let me turn this around. I've never been the target of sexists remarks or been asked on a date. Nor have a woman paid for dinner or a drink, held a door for me or taken my coat. I never heard you clamour for women to be included in the mandatory national service and sent to Iraq. Neither have I heard you fight for the abolishment of the law that requires a man to pay for the upkeep and luxury items(such as makeup) for his wife, when there is no law that requires the opposite even though there is almost no gender inequality in the jobmarket.</p><p>In conclusion: you're all a bunch female chauvinists. Luv ya, qc\_dk.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or , if you prefer , listen to the horror stories female developers tell about sexist remarks or being asked out for dates.Making sexist remarks , ok , I can understand how that might be seen as being sexist .
But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour ? You obviously have n't read the feminist manifesto .
It 's sexist because it 's wrong to be a man.Now , feminists , let me turn this around .
I 've never been the target of sexists remarks or been asked on a date .
Nor have a woman paid for dinner or a drink , held a door for me or taken my coat .
I never heard you clamour for women to be included in the mandatory national service and sent to Iraq .
Neither have I heard you fight for the abolishment of the law that requires a man to pay for the upkeep and luxury items ( such as makeup ) for his wife , when there is no law that requires the opposite even though there is almost no gender inequality in the jobmarket.In conclusion : you 're all a bunch female chauvinists .
Luv ya , qc \ _dk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Or, if you prefer, listen to the horror stories female developers tell about sexist remarks or being asked out for dates.Making sexist remarks, ok, I can understand how that might be seen as being sexist.
But how is asking a woman out considered sexist behaviour?You obviously haven't read the feminist manifesto.
It's sexist because it's wrong to be a man.Now, feminists, let me turn this around.
I've never been the target of sexists remarks or been asked on a date.
Nor have a woman paid for dinner or a drink, held a door for me or taken my coat.
I never heard you clamour for women to be included in the mandatory national service and sent to Iraq.
Neither have I heard you fight for the abolishment of the law that requires a man to pay for the upkeep and luxury items(such as makeup) for his wife, when there is no law that requires the opposite even though there is almost no gender inequality in the jobmarket.In conclusion: you're all a bunch female chauvinists.
Luv ya, qc\_dk.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29726999</id>
	<title>Re:let me get this straight</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255355580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?  Great going, Bruce: show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group.</p><p>Recognizing that a particular term is used in a derogatory manner is not the same as stating that said term should be used in a derogatory manner, or that said term is inherently derogatory.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being called a " homosexual " is " abuse " ?
Great going , Bruce : show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group.Recognizing that a particular term is used in a derogatory manner is not the same as stating that said term should be used in a derogatory manner , or that said term is inherently derogatory .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being called a "homosexual" is "abuse"?
Great going, Bruce: show off your feminist stance by insulting another minority group.Recognizing that a particular term is used in a derogatory manner is not the same as stating that said term should be used in a derogatory manner, or that said term is inherently derogatory.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29726041</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Fulcrum of Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1255350000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The joke was not about religion, but about having sex with women who have not used his favourite text editor - he's comparing initiation into the rites of EMACS to having sex;</p></div><p>No, it was about introducing new people to emacs. He switches the gender back and forth or leaves it out at his whim. And yes, opening yourself to what emacs is is very much like having sex the first time - it will change your attitude about a lot of things and open up a new world.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>RMS is simply trying to misdirect talking about religion because he's embarrassed about what he said.</p> </div><p>I can't really see RMS being embarrassed about anything.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The joke was not about religion , but about having sex with women who have not used his favourite text editor - he 's comparing initiation into the rites of EMACS to having sex ; No , it was about introducing new people to emacs .
He switches the gender back and forth or leaves it out at his whim .
And yes , opening yourself to what emacs is is very much like having sex the first time - it will change your attitude about a lot of things and open up a new world.RMS is simply trying to misdirect talking about religion because he 's embarrassed about what he said .
I ca n't really see RMS being embarrassed about anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The joke was not about religion, but about having sex with women who have not used his favourite text editor - he's comparing initiation into the rites of EMACS to having sex;No, it was about introducing new people to emacs.
He switches the gender back and forth or leaves it out at his whim.
And yes, opening yourself to what emacs is is very much like having sex the first time - it will change your attitude about a lot of things and open up a new world.RMS is simply trying to misdirect talking about religion because he's embarrassed about what he said.
I can't really see RMS being embarrassed about anything.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722825</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727057</id>
	<title>Going too far</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255356120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can see from articles like this that we aren't far from my Black text on a White background being viewed as 'oppressive', god forbid I have a block of code I want to delete<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:S</p><p>You'll change more people's views by proving why they are wrong - in this case through good code - rather than by citing oppression and political correctness.</p><p>I suffer the geek/nerd prejudice from society but I'm not about to go preaching political correctness, I'll just live well and do what I enjoy, less time wasted more time spent enjoying life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can see from articles like this that we are n't far from my Black text on a White background being viewed as 'oppressive ' , god forbid I have a block of code I want to delete : SYou 'll change more people 's views by proving why they are wrong - in this case through good code - rather than by citing oppression and political correctness.I suffer the geek/nerd prejudice from society but I 'm not about to go preaching political correctness , I 'll just live well and do what I enjoy , less time wasted more time spent enjoying life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can see from articles like this that we aren't far from my Black text on a White background being viewed as 'oppressive', god forbid I have a block of code I want to delete :SYou'll change more people's views by proving why they are wrong - in this case through good code - rather than by citing oppression and political correctness.I suffer the geek/nerd prejudice from society but I'm not about to go preaching political correctness, I'll just live well and do what I enjoy, less time wasted more time spent enjoying life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29726257</id>
	<title>Sex and the FOSS geek</title>
	<author>tickticktickfast</author>
	<datestamp>1255351200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. If you are a geek its OK to give gratuitous or unintended offense to other human beings of any ilk. Its part of being a geek. Ilk includes maleness and femaleness aka manhood and womanhood. More on that later.<br>3. Once you become a conscious or self aware geek its OK to enjoy offending people<br>especially if they are so self absorbed that they think that you are thinking about them<br>enough to sexually discriminate against them when it should be clear to anyone that if you are deep enough<br>into the FOSS movement to give a crap about it that you are so f*cked up with nerdiness that you<br>barely have any idea what sex is to begin with. (Look to your leader RMS for the most effective and<br>acceptable ways to annoy and give offense without intending too.)<br>4. About the sex thing. If you find people referring to you as a guy then you probably have a<br>genital which is a protrusion on the front of your body just above the crotch. This protrusion<br>is commonly referred to as a penis. (Its also a type of person but you already know about that.)<br>A few(not many) people who have penises also have a pair of balls hanging in a sack below<br>the base of the penis. Just to remove any remaining ambiguity, the penis is what you pee<br>out of and it occasionally swells up and gets stiff for no apparent reason. If you find people<br>referring to you as a woman then you will probably find that your nipples rest on top of soft mounds of flesh<br>that are larger than the mounds of flesh beneath the nipples of about 50\%  of the rest of the<br>population and you also probably have a second hole (commonly referred to as a vagina)<br>about an inch and a half from your anus. You probably do not have a penis or balls in a sack<br>even though people may constantly assert that you have a pair.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
If you are a geek its OK to give gratuitous or unintended offense to other human beings of any ilk .
Its part of being a geek .
Ilk includes maleness and femaleness aka manhood and womanhood .
More on that later.3 .
Once you become a conscious or self aware geek its OK to enjoy offending peopleespecially if they are so self absorbed that they think that you are thinking about themenough to sexually discriminate against them when it should be clear to anyone that if you are deep enoughinto the FOSS movement to give a crap about it that you are so f * cked up with nerdiness that youbarely have any idea what sex is to begin with .
( Look to your leader RMS for the most effective andacceptable ways to annoy and give offense without intending too. ) 4 .
About the sex thing .
If you find people referring to you as a guy then you probably have agenital which is a protrusion on the front of your body just above the crotch .
This protrusionis commonly referred to as a penis .
( Its also a type of person but you already know about that .
) A few ( not many ) people who have penises also have a pair of balls hanging in a sack belowthe base of the penis .
Just to remove any remaining ambiguity , the penis is what you peeout of and it occasionally swells up and gets stiff for no apparent reason .
If you find peoplereferring to you as a woman then you will probably find that your nipples rest on top of soft mounds of fleshthat are larger than the mounds of flesh beneath the nipples of about 50 \ % of the rest of thepopulation and you also probably have a second hole ( commonly referred to as a vagina ) about an inch and a half from your anus .
You probably do not have a penis or balls in a sackeven though people may constantly assert that you have a pair .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
If you are a geek its OK to give gratuitous or unintended offense to other human beings of any ilk.
Its part of being a geek.
Ilk includes maleness and femaleness aka manhood and womanhood.
More on that later.3.
Once you become a conscious or self aware geek its OK to enjoy offending peopleespecially if they are so self absorbed that they think that you are thinking about themenough to sexually discriminate against them when it should be clear to anyone that if you are deep enoughinto the FOSS movement to give a crap about it that you are so f*cked up with nerdiness that youbarely have any idea what sex is to begin with.
(Look to your leader RMS for the most effective andacceptable ways to annoy and give offense without intending too.)4.
About the sex thing.
If you find people referring to you as a guy then you probably have agenital which is a protrusion on the front of your body just above the crotch.
This protrusionis commonly referred to as a penis.
(Its also a type of person but you already know about that.
)A few(not many) people who have penises also have a pair of balls hanging in a sack belowthe base of the penis.
Just to remove any remaining ambiguity, the penis is what you peeout of and it occasionally swells up and gets stiff for no apparent reason.
If you find peoplereferring to you as a woman then you will probably find that your nipples rest on top of soft mounds of fleshthat are larger than the mounds of flesh beneath the nipples of about 50\%  of the rest of thepopulation and you also probably have a second hole (commonly referred to as a vagina)about an inch and a half from your anus.
You probably do not have a penis or balls in a sackeven though people may constantly assert that you have a pair.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29726571</id>
	<title>Re:Or maybe you're wrong</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255353000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's the beauty of the way this moron wrote it, either you agree or you are wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the beauty of the way this moron wrote it , either you agree or you are wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the beauty of the way this moron wrote it, either you agree or you are wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29732805</id>
	<title>Sexism</title>
	<author>rayk\_sland</author>
	<datestamp>1255452960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Bruce assumed much in thinking that one idealism would promote high ideals in all other areas, even ones that are off some peoples radar. Open source people are not primarily saints. They're just people who are focused on fixing one piece of the pie -- the pie being an aggregate of all that is wrong with the world. They might just not get it "right" in all other areas. Who can?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bruce assumed much in thinking that one idealism would promote high ideals in all other areas , even ones that are off some peoples radar .
Open source people are not primarily saints .
They 're just people who are focused on fixing one piece of the pie -- the pie being an aggregate of all that is wrong with the world .
They might just not get it " right " in all other areas .
Who can ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bruce assumed much in thinking that one idealism would promote high ideals in all other areas, even ones that are off some peoples radar.
Open source people are not primarily saints.
They're just people who are focused on fixing one piece of the pie -- the pie being an aggregate of all that is wrong with the world.
They might just not get it "right" in all other areas.
Who can?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722543</id>
	<title>Re:reports of ire and denial met with ire and deni</title>
	<author>mdarksbane</author>
	<datestamp>1255377720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most people respond poorly when they are insulted with little or no proof, and their objections described as "denial." It is, among other things, condescending.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most people respond poorly when they are insulted with little or no proof , and their objections described as " denial .
" It is , among other things , condescending .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most people respond poorly when they are insulted with little or no proof, and their objections described as "denial.
" It is, among other things, condescending.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720955</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721841</id>
	<title>FOSS people are degenerates anyways</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255375020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Carry on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Carry on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Carry on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721855</id>
	<title>"FOSS Sexism Claims Met With Ire and Denial"</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1255375020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see no reason to meet them with anything other than a yawn.  What does he propose to do, get a Federal court order requiring affirmative action?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see no reason to meet them with anything other than a yawn .
What does he propose to do , get a Federal court order requiring affirmative action ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see no reason to meet them with anything other than a yawn.
What does he propose to do, get a Federal court order requiring affirmative action?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29726981</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>Vitriol+Angst</author>
	<datestamp>1255355520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know I can't comment too well on this topic, as I'm a male white guy. I'm not in any sub-group that is getting denied attention that I can think of -- other than getting beat up once for being a Nerd in third grade. Nothing but totally ignored is my only peril.</p><p>However, I do think that if I were in a group that I thought was discriminated against, I might take the comment of a few people to represent some all of that larger group. I'd be a little more skittish -- not thinking that "hey, that's just some jerk" -- I'd identify that person as an ambassador of ill will.</p><p>It only takes one snarky comment to ruin the reputation of the group.</p><p>I think that people here are pretty intelligent and accepting -- but then, I'm probably part of that larger group.</p><p>I do see racism as a problem -- but not accepting that people CAN empathize and see things from your perspective, is also a stereotype.  I do find some Feminists funny and I'm not at all bothered by the group in general -- just when someone says that all males are the same -- I get no credit for having taken your side against the real misogynists. I'll try not to conclude that all Feminists feel the same way, however.</p><p>I do notice that if you say; "I'm a feminist" that there are a lot of guys and girls who get riled up. The TERM itself has been demagogued by people who would like to cancel the Woman's Suffrage movement. As a guy who does not take it the wrong way, and loves Ellen Degenerous, I would have to admit that it's a loaded term -- for no fault of the movement or the need to stand up for ladies. Just recognize that if you lead with that LABEL -- that it has baggage that too many people just react to without giving it a lot of thought.</p><p>I work in a place with a lot of women at every level. If someone gets the label "B!tch" it's usually just because they are nasty to be around. I suppose it all depends on if someone is actually putting you down or not. It might be that you need to lower your guard a bit and look for allies rather than opponents -- if they aren't there, it might be time to find a new place to be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know I ca n't comment too well on this topic , as I 'm a male white guy .
I 'm not in any sub-group that is getting denied attention that I can think of -- other than getting beat up once for being a Nerd in third grade .
Nothing but totally ignored is my only peril.However , I do think that if I were in a group that I thought was discriminated against , I might take the comment of a few people to represent some all of that larger group .
I 'd be a little more skittish -- not thinking that " hey , that 's just some jerk " -- I 'd identify that person as an ambassador of ill will.It only takes one snarky comment to ruin the reputation of the group.I think that people here are pretty intelligent and accepting -- but then , I 'm probably part of that larger group.I do see racism as a problem -- but not accepting that people CAN empathize and see things from your perspective , is also a stereotype .
I do find some Feminists funny and I 'm not at all bothered by the group in general -- just when someone says that all males are the same -- I get no credit for having taken your side against the real misogynists .
I 'll try not to conclude that all Feminists feel the same way , however.I do notice that if you say ; " I 'm a feminist " that there are a lot of guys and girls who get riled up .
The TERM itself has been demagogued by people who would like to cancel the Woman 's Suffrage movement .
As a guy who does not take it the wrong way , and loves Ellen Degenerous , I would have to admit that it 's a loaded term -- for no fault of the movement or the need to stand up for ladies .
Just recognize that if you lead with that LABEL -- that it has baggage that too many people just react to without giving it a lot of thought.I work in a place with a lot of women at every level .
If someone gets the label " B ! tch " it 's usually just because they are nasty to be around .
I suppose it all depends on if someone is actually putting you down or not .
It might be that you need to lower your guard a bit and look for allies rather than opponents -- if they are n't there , it might be time to find a new place to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know I can't comment too well on this topic, as I'm a male white guy.
I'm not in any sub-group that is getting denied attention that I can think of -- other than getting beat up once for being a Nerd in third grade.
Nothing but totally ignored is my only peril.However, I do think that if I were in a group that I thought was discriminated against, I might take the comment of a few people to represent some all of that larger group.
I'd be a little more skittish -- not thinking that "hey, that's just some jerk" -- I'd identify that person as an ambassador of ill will.It only takes one snarky comment to ruin the reputation of the group.I think that people here are pretty intelligent and accepting -- but then, I'm probably part of that larger group.I do see racism as a problem -- but not accepting that people CAN empathize and see things from your perspective, is also a stereotype.
I do find some Feminists funny and I'm not at all bothered by the group in general -- just when someone says that all males are the same -- I get no credit for having taken your side against the real misogynists.
I'll try not to conclude that all Feminists feel the same way, however.I do notice that if you say; "I'm a feminist" that there are a lot of guys and girls who get riled up.
The TERM itself has been demagogued by people who would like to cancel the Woman's Suffrage movement.
As a guy who does not take it the wrong way, and loves Ellen Degenerous, I would have to admit that it's a loaded term -- for no fault of the movement or the need to stand up for ladies.
Just recognize that if you lead with that LABEL -- that it has baggage that too many people just react to without giving it a lot of thought.I work in a place with a lot of women at every level.
If someone gets the label "B!tch" it's usually just because they are nasty to be around.
I suppose it all depends on if someone is actually putting you down or not.
It might be that you need to lower your guard a bit and look for allies rather than opponents -- if they aren't there, it might be time to find a new place to be.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720713</id>
	<title>Some ugly truths...</title>
	<author>MikeRT</author>
	<datestamp>1255371120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is there sexism? Of course. Same thing with racism. No group is beyond prejudice and bigotry, but the fact that is that most feminists cannot tell the difference between non-prejudiced opinions about innate sex differences and actual sexism. Why thinking people give them much currency is beyond me when they wax eloquent about the allegedly oppressed state of the modern Western woman is beyond me, in light of their aforementioned cognitive dissonance and general antipathy toward the state of women's rights in the rest of the world.
<br> <br>
You know what the ugly truth is? Most women absolutely **wither** in the face of someone openly, but in any form, not approving of their behavior. It can be a sigh and a shaking of one's head, to outright denunciation. This is why so many women who are "sluts" are constantly kvetching about acceptance, where as absolutely rakish men who will use a girl and discard her like a tissue in the next minute feel no need to seek society's approval (there is a difference between "the stud" and "the cad" after all). By and large men don't give a damn what society thinks about their behavior unless it affects them or it is already in line with their own feelings.
<br> <br>
That is a key part of why women fail in male-dominated fields like IT and FOSS development is no exception.
<br> <br>
Lastly, it is mind-numbing idiocy like this which makes addressing actual problems difficult:<blockquote><div><p>That brings up another point I've learned: people who are not consciously sexist themselves tend to be unable to see institutionalized sexism around them. They are not aware of any prejudice against women in themselves, so how could there be any sexism involved? They seem unaware that institutions and customs can be sexist simply by what they value or how they operate, that even something like a discourse developed by men talking to men can institutionalize sexism. Nor do they understand that, by simply accepting such institutions or ways of acting, they become supporters of sexism.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
I know what some are thinking. They're thinking that a man might be supporting objectively sexist customs and rules without knowing it, but that's not how the feminists treat it. They make similar complaints about traditional marriage, even to the point of denouncing women like my mother-in-law who can do embedded, real-time systems design, but chose to stay home to homeschool her kids. How dare she support such tyranny against women! How dare my wife want to do the same?..
<br> <br>
Yet, the thing is, to the average feminist these choices are ipso facto oppressive. It's a war mentality. No coexistence, no live-and-let-live. One side must win, the other must be obliterated.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is there sexism ?
Of course .
Same thing with racism .
No group is beyond prejudice and bigotry , but the fact that is that most feminists can not tell the difference between non-prejudiced opinions about innate sex differences and actual sexism .
Why thinking people give them much currency is beyond me when they wax eloquent about the allegedly oppressed state of the modern Western woman is beyond me , in light of their aforementioned cognitive dissonance and general antipathy toward the state of women 's rights in the rest of the world .
You know what the ugly truth is ?
Most women absolutely * * wither * * in the face of someone openly , but in any form , not approving of their behavior .
It can be a sigh and a shaking of one 's head , to outright denunciation .
This is why so many women who are " sluts " are constantly kvetching about acceptance , where as absolutely rakish men who will use a girl and discard her like a tissue in the next minute feel no need to seek society 's approval ( there is a difference between " the stud " and " the cad " after all ) .
By and large men do n't give a damn what society thinks about their behavior unless it affects them or it is already in line with their own feelings .
That is a key part of why women fail in male-dominated fields like IT and FOSS development is no exception .
Lastly , it is mind-numbing idiocy like this which makes addressing actual problems difficult : That brings up another point I 've learned : people who are not consciously sexist themselves tend to be unable to see institutionalized sexism around them .
They are not aware of any prejudice against women in themselves , so how could there be any sexism involved ?
They seem unaware that institutions and customs can be sexist simply by what they value or how they operate , that even something like a discourse developed by men talking to men can institutionalize sexism .
Nor do they understand that , by simply accepting such institutions or ways of acting , they become supporters of sexism .
I know what some are thinking .
They 're thinking that a man might be supporting objectively sexist customs and rules without knowing it , but that 's not how the feminists treat it .
They make similar complaints about traditional marriage , even to the point of denouncing women like my mother-in-law who can do embedded , real-time systems design , but chose to stay home to homeschool her kids .
How dare she support such tyranny against women !
How dare my wife want to do the same ? . .
Yet , the thing is , to the average feminist these choices are ipso facto oppressive .
It 's a war mentality .
No coexistence , no live-and-let-live .
One side must win , the other must be obliterated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is there sexism?
Of course.
Same thing with racism.
No group is beyond prejudice and bigotry, but the fact that is that most feminists cannot tell the difference between non-prejudiced opinions about innate sex differences and actual sexism.
Why thinking people give them much currency is beyond me when they wax eloquent about the allegedly oppressed state of the modern Western woman is beyond me, in light of their aforementioned cognitive dissonance and general antipathy toward the state of women's rights in the rest of the world.
You know what the ugly truth is?
Most women absolutely **wither** in the face of someone openly, but in any form, not approving of their behavior.
It can be a sigh and a shaking of one's head, to outright denunciation.
This is why so many women who are "sluts" are constantly kvetching about acceptance, where as absolutely rakish men who will use a girl and discard her like a tissue in the next minute feel no need to seek society's approval (there is a difference between "the stud" and "the cad" after all).
By and large men don't give a damn what society thinks about their behavior unless it affects them or it is already in line with their own feelings.
That is a key part of why women fail in male-dominated fields like IT and FOSS development is no exception.
Lastly, it is mind-numbing idiocy like this which makes addressing actual problems difficult:That brings up another point I've learned: people who are not consciously sexist themselves tend to be unable to see institutionalized sexism around them.
They are not aware of any prejudice against women in themselves, so how could there be any sexism involved?
They seem unaware that institutions and customs can be sexist simply by what they value or how they operate, that even something like a discourse developed by men talking to men can institutionalize sexism.
Nor do they understand that, by simply accepting such institutions or ways of acting, they become supporters of sexism.
I know what some are thinking.
They're thinking that a man might be supporting objectively sexist customs and rules without knowing it, but that's not how the feminists treat it.
They make similar complaints about traditional marriage, even to the point of denouncing women like my mother-in-law who can do embedded, real-time systems design, but chose to stay home to homeschool her kids.
How dare she support such tyranny against women!
How dare my wife want to do the same?..
Yet, the thing is, to the average feminist these choices are ipso facto oppressive.
It's a war mentality.
No coexistence, no live-and-let-live.
One side must win, the other must be obliterated.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720863</id>
	<title>Ubuntu &ldquo;Karmic Koala&rdquo; released for men</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <b>THAWTELESS, West London,</b> Monday &mdash; Canonical, Inc. has announced the release later this month of Ubuntu Linux 9.10, "Karmic Koala," <a href="http://notnews.today.com/?p=690" title="today.com">to men</a> [today.com].

</p><p>Project founder Mark Shuttleworth explained that "this stuff is difficult to explain to girls" and thought they'd have gotten the hint when he called 8.04 "Hairy Hardon." "Worrying about sexism in open source just detracts from the battle for Linux. So we've put the tits back into the default desktop. And arses."

</p><p>Crime-fighting geek Shuttleworth, who dresses as a billiionaire playboy by night, swore that plenty of women liked him lots and that he obviously wasn't unable to get laid or anything, having gotten seriously rich in the dot-com era, not to mention having gone into space. "Chicks dig that stuff. Trust me, I've met lots of girls. More than five!"

</p><p>Canonical Community Manager Jono Bacon echoed this sentiment on his blog. "We just don't understand how come women are 15\% of all computer programmers but only 1\% of open source programmers. It must be a bit complicated for them. That's why I've written this spontaneous blog post, completely unrelated to anything my boss may or may not have said, on all the fantastically talented women in free software, even if none of them seem to work much on Ubuntu any more. Also, I'm absolutely confident that saying I'm in a computer geek heavy metal band will get me lots of chicks too, even if their pretty little heads can't understand Linux."

</p><p>A special women's edition of Ubuntu 9.10 will be released on a bright pink CD. "It doubles as a makeup mirror!" said Shuttleworth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>THAWTELESS , West London , Monday    Canonical , Inc. has announced the release later this month of Ubuntu Linux 9.10 , " Karmic Koala , " to men [ today.com ] .
Project founder Mark Shuttleworth explained that " this stuff is difficult to explain to girls " and thought they 'd have gotten the hint when he called 8.04 " Hairy Hardon .
" " Worrying about sexism in open source just detracts from the battle for Linux .
So we 've put the tits back into the default desktop .
And arses .
" Crime-fighting geek Shuttleworth , who dresses as a billiionaire playboy by night , swore that plenty of women liked him lots and that he obviously was n't unable to get laid or anything , having gotten seriously rich in the dot-com era , not to mention having gone into space .
" Chicks dig that stuff .
Trust me , I 've met lots of girls .
More than five !
" Canonical Community Manager Jono Bacon echoed this sentiment on his blog .
" We just do n't understand how come women are 15 \ % of all computer programmers but only 1 \ % of open source programmers .
It must be a bit complicated for them .
That 's why I 've written this spontaneous blog post , completely unrelated to anything my boss may or may not have said , on all the fantastically talented women in free software , even if none of them seem to work much on Ubuntu any more .
Also , I 'm absolutely confident that saying I 'm in a computer geek heavy metal band will get me lots of chicks too , even if their pretty little heads ca n't understand Linux .
" A special women 's edition of Ubuntu 9.10 will be released on a bright pink CD .
" It doubles as a makeup mirror !
" said Shuttleworth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> THAWTELESS, West London, Monday — Canonical, Inc. has announced the release later this month of Ubuntu Linux 9.10, "Karmic Koala," to men [today.com].
Project founder Mark Shuttleworth explained that "this stuff is difficult to explain to girls" and thought they'd have gotten the hint when he called 8.04 "Hairy Hardon.
" "Worrying about sexism in open source just detracts from the battle for Linux.
So we've put the tits back into the default desktop.
And arses.
"

Crime-fighting geek Shuttleworth, who dresses as a billiionaire playboy by night, swore that plenty of women liked him lots and that he obviously wasn't unable to get laid or anything, having gotten seriously rich in the dot-com era, not to mention having gone into space.
"Chicks dig that stuff.
Trust me, I've met lots of girls.
More than five!
"

Canonical Community Manager Jono Bacon echoed this sentiment on his blog.
"We just don't understand how come women are 15\% of all computer programmers but only 1\% of open source programmers.
It must be a bit complicated for them.
That's why I've written this spontaneous blog post, completely unrelated to anything my boss may or may not have said, on all the fantastically talented women in free software, even if none of them seem to work much on Ubuntu any more.
Also, I'm absolutely confident that saying I'm in a computer geek heavy metal band will get me lots of chicks too, even if their pretty little heads can't understand Linux.
"

A special women's edition of Ubuntu 9.10 will be released on a bright pink CD.
"It doubles as a makeup mirror!
" said Shuttleworth.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720783</id>
	<title>Standard FOSS: Don't blame, Debug!</title>
	<author>jd</author>
	<datestamp>1255371360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As much as the F/L/OSS community likes to pretend that it is distinct from the "real world" communities, it isn't. But whereas the "real world" is mostly comprised of idiots who lack the mental capacity to understand anything new, let alone seek it, F/L/OSS developers often represent some of the most curious, information-seeking individuals and some of the highest-calibre intellects out there.</p><p>So if we have trouble excusing such behaviour for the "normals", we must be far, far harder on ourselves for those same flaws.</p><p>There is a flip-side, though, that the original poster may have neglected to consider. F/L/OSS developers <b> <i>ARE</i> </b> amongst the brightest and the best, but they also have extraordinarily high levels of autistic behaviours, anti-social disorders, emotional instability and alienation.</p><p>(The first two are collectively known as "Geek Syndrome". The latter two are the inevitable consequence of Geek Syndrome in a society that tolerates no differences, no matter what it says.)</p><p>It is not just likely, but a near-certainty that people with that kind of internal and external pressure WILL fragment into groups that conceal differences by being essentially uniform.</p><p>I'm not sure if it can be called sexism when such behaviour is, at least in part, a mask to conceal what's going on. The mask can be sexist without the person underneath being.</p><p>However, true misogyny does exist, independent of the mask. THAT particular aspect of sexism should be rooted out and burned, as it is warped, buggy thinking. Bugs SHOULD be erased, and a buggy brain SHOULD be patched.</p><p>The problem is how to tell the mask from the person underneath. These are distinct issues. The mask doesn't need fixing, rather the person needs an extended API to handle errors, and the Real World needs replacing with Real World 2.0 to debug the flawed mental processes that produce the garbage in the first place.</p><p>Once either the person has better exception-handling or error trapping, and/or there's less noise generating errors, the mask can be erased. It's a filter that exists to hide bad wet-coding and so the sooner we get rid of the bad code, the sooner we can get rid of the filter.</p><p>My guess would be that if the mask died, a good 75\% of the perceived sexism in F/L/OSS would die with it, without a single F/L/OSS coder needing to change their view of gender.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As much as the F/L/OSS community likes to pretend that it is distinct from the " real world " communities , it is n't .
But whereas the " real world " is mostly comprised of idiots who lack the mental capacity to understand anything new , let alone seek it , F/L/OSS developers often represent some of the most curious , information-seeking individuals and some of the highest-calibre intellects out there.So if we have trouble excusing such behaviour for the " normals " , we must be far , far harder on ourselves for those same flaws.There is a flip-side , though , that the original poster may have neglected to consider .
F/L/OSS developers ARE amongst the brightest and the best , but they also have extraordinarily high levels of autistic behaviours , anti-social disorders , emotional instability and alienation .
( The first two are collectively known as " Geek Syndrome " .
The latter two are the inevitable consequence of Geek Syndrome in a society that tolerates no differences , no matter what it says .
) It is not just likely , but a near-certainty that people with that kind of internal and external pressure WILL fragment into groups that conceal differences by being essentially uniform.I 'm not sure if it can be called sexism when such behaviour is , at least in part , a mask to conceal what 's going on .
The mask can be sexist without the person underneath being.However , true misogyny does exist , independent of the mask .
THAT particular aspect of sexism should be rooted out and burned , as it is warped , buggy thinking .
Bugs SHOULD be erased , and a buggy brain SHOULD be patched.The problem is how to tell the mask from the person underneath .
These are distinct issues .
The mask does n't need fixing , rather the person needs an extended API to handle errors , and the Real World needs replacing with Real World 2.0 to debug the flawed mental processes that produce the garbage in the first place.Once either the person has better exception-handling or error trapping , and/or there 's less noise generating errors , the mask can be erased .
It 's a filter that exists to hide bad wet-coding and so the sooner we get rid of the bad code , the sooner we can get rid of the filter.My guess would be that if the mask died , a good 75 \ % of the perceived sexism in F/L/OSS would die with it , without a single F/L/OSS coder needing to change their view of gender .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As much as the F/L/OSS community likes to pretend that it is distinct from the "real world" communities, it isn't.
But whereas the "real world" is mostly comprised of idiots who lack the mental capacity to understand anything new, let alone seek it, F/L/OSS developers often represent some of the most curious, information-seeking individuals and some of the highest-calibre intellects out there.So if we have trouble excusing such behaviour for the "normals", we must be far, far harder on ourselves for those same flaws.There is a flip-side, though, that the original poster may have neglected to consider.
F/L/OSS developers  ARE  amongst the brightest and the best, but they also have extraordinarily high levels of autistic behaviours, anti-social disorders, emotional instability and alienation.
(The first two are collectively known as "Geek Syndrome".
The latter two are the inevitable consequence of Geek Syndrome in a society that tolerates no differences, no matter what it says.
)It is not just likely, but a near-certainty that people with that kind of internal and external pressure WILL fragment into groups that conceal differences by being essentially uniform.I'm not sure if it can be called sexism when such behaviour is, at least in part, a mask to conceal what's going on.
The mask can be sexist without the person underneath being.However, true misogyny does exist, independent of the mask.
THAT particular aspect of sexism should be rooted out and burned, as it is warped, buggy thinking.
Bugs SHOULD be erased, and a buggy brain SHOULD be patched.The problem is how to tell the mask from the person underneath.
These are distinct issues.
The mask doesn't need fixing, rather the person needs an extended API to handle errors, and the Real World needs replacing with Real World 2.0 to debug the flawed mental processes that produce the garbage in the first place.Once either the person has better exception-handling or error trapping, and/or there's less noise generating errors, the mask can be erased.
It's a filter that exists to hide bad wet-coding and so the sooner we get rid of the bad code, the sooner we can get rid of the filter.My guess would be that if the mask died, a good 75\% of the perceived sexism in F/L/OSS would die with it, without a single F/L/OSS coder needing to change their view of gender.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29739345</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>Monsuco</author>
	<datestamp>1255439400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Or, as another example, this story is tagged 'sendthemtothekitchen'. This sort of juvenile joke contributes to an atmosphere in which women do not feel welcome.</p></div><p>Erm, would it be bad to add that I just tagged the story that because of your post?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or , as another example , this story is tagged 'sendthemtothekitchen' .
This sort of juvenile joke contributes to an atmosphere in which women do not feel welcome.Erm , would it be bad to add that I just tagged the story that because of your post ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Or, as another example, this story is tagged 'sendthemtothekitchen'.
This sort of juvenile joke contributes to an atmosphere in which women do not feel welcome.Erm, would it be bad to add that I just tagged the story that because of your post?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720775</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720451</id>
	<title>GPL4</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255369980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In order to use it, this software must have the affirmative action label attached to it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In order to use it , this software must have the affirmative action label attached to it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In order to use it, this software must have the affirmative action label attached to it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29726595</id>
	<title>Re:Sexism is so pervasive we don't see it</title>
	<author>redhog</author>
	<datestamp>1255353060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is no such thing as original sin. You are not guilty unless you intentionally, knowingly did it. I grew up with that shit. It made me the strange, over-sensitive person I am.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no such thing as original sin .
You are not guilty unless you intentionally , knowingly did it .
I grew up with that shit .
It made me the strange , over-sensitive person I am .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no such thing as original sin.
You are not guilty unless you intentionally, knowingly did it.
I grew up with that shit.
It made me the strange, over-sensitive person I am.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722035</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>stdarg</author>
	<datestamp>1255375620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"Speaking of presentations. I'd much rather we banished kung-fu kittens and went with beautiful women for the filler stock art. Works in ads!"</p></div><p>How is that sexism? Is it similarly ageist if I say "When advertising this children's toy, we should try to include young kids not old people, because that works better?"</p><p>Statistics and research in and of themselves are not necessarily sexist even if the findings are about sex, gender, sexism, or something related. Where do you personally draw the line I wonder?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Speaking of presentations .
I 'd much rather we banished kung-fu kittens and went with beautiful women for the filler stock art .
Works in ads !
" How is that sexism ?
Is it similarly ageist if I say " When advertising this children 's toy , we should try to include young kids not old people , because that works better ?
" Statistics and research in and of themselves are not necessarily sexist even if the findings are about sex , gender , sexism , or something related .
Where do you personally draw the line I wonder ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Speaking of presentations.
I'd much rather we banished kung-fu kittens and went with beautiful women for the filler stock art.
Works in ads!
"How is that sexism?
Is it similarly ageist if I say "When advertising this children's toy, we should try to include young kids not old people, because that works better?
"Statistics and research in and of themselves are not necessarily sexist even if the findings are about sex, gender, sexism, or something related.
Where do you personally draw the line I wonder?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29728227</id>
	<title>Just look at most Linux screenshots ....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255365540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I always wandered why somebody would publish pictures with scandid women on the backgrounds.</p><p>Although I personally have no problem looking at a cute girl, it is very UNPROFESSIONAL and in all honestly SEXIST.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I always wandered why somebody would publish pictures with scandid women on the backgrounds.Although I personally have no problem looking at a cute girl , it is very UNPROFESSIONAL and in all honestly SEXIST .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I always wandered why somebody would publish pictures with scandid women on the backgrounds.Although I personally have no problem looking at a cute girl, it is very UNPROFESSIONAL and in all honestly SEXIST.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721641</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>aztracker1</author>
	<datestamp>1255374240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone that's worked as one of the only men in a couple of different places, I can state that it's more the case of a sheer number imbalance and a natural event. Put a dozen women together, and there will be derogatory comments about men.. same goes the other way.</p><p>The real issue at hand, is it worse than the general population. If you put 98 men in a room with two women how would the conversation go? Now do it online... The fact is that the FOSS discussion boards/lists are far more mild than the general population, and in this case is a non-issue being forced into one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone that 's worked as one of the only men in a couple of different places , I can state that it 's more the case of a sheer number imbalance and a natural event .
Put a dozen women together , and there will be derogatory comments about men.. same goes the other way.The real issue at hand , is it worse than the general population .
If you put 98 men in a room with two women how would the conversation go ?
Now do it online... The fact is that the FOSS discussion boards/lists are far more mild than the general population , and in this case is a non-issue being forced into one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone that's worked as one of the only men in a couple of different places, I can state that it's more the case of a sheer number imbalance and a natural event.
Put a dozen women together, and there will be derogatory comments about men.. same goes the other way.The real issue at hand, is it worse than the general population.
If you put 98 men in a room with two women how would the conversation go?
Now do it online... The fact is that the FOSS discussion boards/lists are far more mild than the general population, and in this case is a non-issue being forced into one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720775</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722989</id>
	<title>Re:let me get this straight</title>
	<author>rantingkitten</author>
	<datestamp>1255379640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To the type of person who would use "gay" or "homo" as an pejorative, yes, it is abuse, in the sense that when they say "You're gay" or "What a homo," they intend these things to be insulting.  The recipient might not think it's insulting, but you have to look at the intent of the person saying it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>To the type of person who would use " gay " or " homo " as an pejorative , yes , it is abuse , in the sense that when they say " You 're gay " or " What a homo , " they intend these things to be insulting .
The recipient might not think it 's insulting , but you have to look at the intent of the person saying it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To the type of person who would use "gay" or "homo" as an pejorative, yes, it is abuse, in the sense that when they say "You're gay" or "What a homo," they intend these things to be insulting.
The recipient might not think it's insulting, but you have to look at the intent of the person saying it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721865</id>
	<title>You know, the real issue isn't sexism...</title>
	<author>frank\_adrian314159</author>
	<datestamp>1255375020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's that too many people on open source projects are jerks and all too willing to jump from "your code's stupid" to "you're stupid" all too quickly.  Now to allay all of the insecure ones' fears out there, not everyone working on FOSS projects are like this (and I've never been treated that way - I guess my code's OK enough).  However, many FOSS project members, being geeks, well... let us simply say that "playing nice with others" has not always been high on their priority list.  And it shows.  You know, you can be respectful even when telling someone that their code sucks.  Do that, and you'll have a lot more people, both men and women, contributing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's that too many people on open source projects are jerks and all too willing to jump from " your code 's stupid " to " you 're stupid " all too quickly .
Now to allay all of the insecure ones ' fears out there , not everyone working on FOSS projects are like this ( and I 've never been treated that way - I guess my code 's OK enough ) .
However , many FOSS project members , being geeks , well... let us simply say that " playing nice with others " has not always been high on their priority list .
And it shows .
You know , you can be respectful even when telling someone that their code sucks .
Do that , and you 'll have a lot more people , both men and women , contributing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's that too many people on open source projects are jerks and all too willing to jump from "your code's stupid" to "you're stupid" all too quickly.
Now to allay all of the insecure ones' fears out there, not everyone working on FOSS projects are like this (and I've never been treated that way - I guess my code's OK enough).
However, many FOSS project members, being geeks, well... let us simply say that "playing nice with others" has not always been high on their priority list.
And it shows.
You know, you can be respectful even when telling someone that their code sucks.
Do that, and you'll have a lot more people, both men and women, contributing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720873</id>
	<title>OK, so the algorithm is</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There aren't many FOSS web sites devoted to feminist issues<br>AND<br>the few that do exist have declining membership<br>AND<br>many people have vigorously denied that they are sexist, some of whom have been pretty darn mean about it, in fact,</p><p>THEREFORE</p><p>FOSS is sexist</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are n't many FOSS web sites devoted to feminist issuesANDthe few that do exist have declining membershipANDmany people have vigorously denied that they are sexist , some of whom have been pretty darn mean about it , in fact,THEREFOREFOSS is sexist</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There aren't many FOSS web sites devoted to feminist issuesANDthe few that do exist have declining membershipANDmany people have vigorously denied that they are sexist, some of whom have been pretty darn mean about it, in fact,THEREFOREFOSS is sexist</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727405</id>
	<title>Cartoons have the final say!</title>
	<author>Malibee</author>
	<datestamp>1255358940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>XKCD nailed, see also: <a href="http://truemeaningoflife.com/oldwisdom.php?topid=3184&amp;responses=2" title="truemeaningoflife.com" rel="nofollow">http://truemeaningoflife.com/oldwisdom.php?topid=3184&amp;responses=2</a> [truemeaningoflife.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>XKCD nailed , see also : http : //truemeaningoflife.com/oldwisdom.php ? topid = 3184&amp;responses = 2 [ truemeaningoflife.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>XKCD nailed, see also: http://truemeaningoflife.com/oldwisdom.php?topid=3184&amp;responses=2 [truemeaningoflife.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722961</id>
	<title>Re:How is asking a woman out for a date sexist?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255379460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"sexistic"</p><p>What is this new word that you've coined?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" sexistic " What is this new word that you 've coined ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"sexistic"What is this new word that you've coined?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721819</id>
	<title>How long have you been a Misogynist?</title>
	<author>mpapet</author>
	<datestamp>1255374900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And the answer is, "I'm not."  But the problem is the person getting the question has to prove a negative and is simultaneously labeled.</p><p>The baseline premise is "Sexism exists in FOSS" and then comes the denials and the denials are variously flamed.</p><p>Are there very bad actors in FOSS?  Yes.  But it's not unique to FOSS or any other social group.  Do they need to be admonished and probably 'banished' in some way?  Yes.  Because the behavior is entirely inappropriate regardless of gender.</p><p>If you want to approach issues like this as 'generally innapropriate behavior' I'm on board.  If you want to correct someone by telling them, "Don't write X because to my group it means bad thing Y'  I'm on board.  I'm NOT on board when an article starts with a premise that cannot be altered.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And the answer is , " I 'm not .
" But the problem is the person getting the question has to prove a negative and is simultaneously labeled.The baseline premise is " Sexism exists in FOSS " and then comes the denials and the denials are variously flamed.Are there very bad actors in FOSS ?
Yes. But it 's not unique to FOSS or any other social group .
Do they need to be admonished and probably 'banished ' in some way ?
Yes. Because the behavior is entirely inappropriate regardless of gender.If you want to approach issues like this as 'generally innapropriate behavior ' I 'm on board .
If you want to correct someone by telling them , " Do n't write X because to my group it means bad thing Y ' I 'm on board .
I 'm NOT on board when an article starts with a premise that can not be altered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the answer is, "I'm not.
"  But the problem is the person getting the question has to prove a negative and is simultaneously labeled.The baseline premise is "Sexism exists in FOSS" and then comes the denials and the denials are variously flamed.Are there very bad actors in FOSS?
Yes.  But it's not unique to FOSS or any other social group.
Do they need to be admonished and probably 'banished' in some way?
Yes.  Because the behavior is entirely inappropriate regardless of gender.If you want to approach issues like this as 'generally innapropriate behavior' I'm on board.
If you want to correct someone by telling them, "Don't write X because to my group it means bad thing Y'  I'm on board.
I'm NOT on board when an article starts with a premise that cannot be altered.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723531</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>Dixie\_Flatline</author>
	<datestamp>1255339020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Asking someone out with no prior indication of interest is obnoxious. It's not sexist, but it's annoying.</p><p>Now, if dozens of guys are asking you out, just because you happen to share a common interest with them, the level of obnoxiousness goes up.</p><p>Interestingly, most straight guys find even ONE gay man finding them interesting and maybe asking them out tremendously offensive and inappropriate (maybe you don't and just wave it off or accept or whatever -- I don't know anything about you!) but it's easy to find stories about that sort of thing.</p><p>If you joined a FOSS project and found out that 98.5\% of the programmers were gay and they were constantly hitting on you or making racy remarks that made you uncomfortable, would you be so sanguine, I wonder? Maybe you would. Most guys would quit in frustration.</p><p>Unwanted attention is a pain in the ass. I admit, I'm not subject to it (I'm a straight guy, and reality, unlike my example, is not 98.5\% gay guys), but my partner often is. She steps carefully and minds what she says, lest she make people think she's more interested than she is, and unintentionally leave herself open to unwanted attention.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Asking someone out with no prior indication of interest is obnoxious .
It 's not sexist , but it 's annoying.Now , if dozens of guys are asking you out , just because you happen to share a common interest with them , the level of obnoxiousness goes up.Interestingly , most straight guys find even ONE gay man finding them interesting and maybe asking them out tremendously offensive and inappropriate ( maybe you do n't and just wave it off or accept or whatever -- I do n't know anything about you !
) but it 's easy to find stories about that sort of thing.If you joined a FOSS project and found out that 98.5 \ % of the programmers were gay and they were constantly hitting on you or making racy remarks that made you uncomfortable , would you be so sanguine , I wonder ?
Maybe you would .
Most guys would quit in frustration.Unwanted attention is a pain in the ass .
I admit , I 'm not subject to it ( I 'm a straight guy , and reality , unlike my example , is not 98.5 \ % gay guys ) , but my partner often is .
She steps carefully and minds what she says , lest she make people think she 's more interested than she is , and unintentionally leave herself open to unwanted attention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Asking someone out with no prior indication of interest is obnoxious.
It's not sexist, but it's annoying.Now, if dozens of guys are asking you out, just because you happen to share a common interest with them, the level of obnoxiousness goes up.Interestingly, most straight guys find even ONE gay man finding them interesting and maybe asking them out tremendously offensive and inappropriate (maybe you don't and just wave it off or accept or whatever -- I don't know anything about you!
) but it's easy to find stories about that sort of thing.If you joined a FOSS project and found out that 98.5\% of the programmers were gay and they were constantly hitting on you or making racy remarks that made you uncomfortable, would you be so sanguine, I wonder?
Maybe you would.
Most guys would quit in frustration.Unwanted attention is a pain in the ass.
I admit, I'm not subject to it (I'm a straight guy, and reality, unlike my example, is not 98.5\% gay guys), but my partner often is.
She steps carefully and minds what she says, lest she make people think she's more interested than she is, and unintentionally leave herself open to unwanted attention.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720983</id>
	<title>Re:Words stuffed into our mouths</title>
	<author>Joe Decker</author>
	<datestamp>1255372200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"It just seems that now adays everything is completely overblown. I think that a huge majority of men in this country aren't sexist or racist, I think they just want to get to the end of the work day."</p><p>That's a false dichotomy.  Not all sexist (racist, homophobic, etc.) acts and comments are matters of premeditated intent.</p><p>--Joe</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" It just seems that now adays everything is completely overblown .
I think that a huge majority of men in this country are n't sexist or racist , I think they just want to get to the end of the work day .
" That 's a false dichotomy .
Not all sexist ( racist , homophobic , etc .
) acts and comments are matters of premeditated intent.--Joe</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"It just seems that now adays everything is completely overblown.
I think that a huge majority of men in this country aren't sexist or racist, I think they just want to get to the end of the work day.
"That's a false dichotomy.
Not all sexist (racist, homophobic, etc.
) acts and comments are matters of premeditated intent.--Joe</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720463</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722141</id>
	<title>The highway</title>
	<author>Spazmania</author>
	<datestamp>1255376040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look, it's my way or the highway. That may be elitist. It may be insensitive. It could well be poor management. But there's nothing sexist or discriminatory about it. So get over yourselves.</p><p>Sexist and discriminatory are words reserved for folks who because of your gender won't give you a chance to play their way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , it 's my way or the highway .
That may be elitist .
It may be insensitive .
It could well be poor management .
But there 's nothing sexist or discriminatory about it .
So get over yourselves.Sexist and discriminatory are words reserved for folks who because of your gender wo n't give you a chance to play their way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, it's my way or the highway.
That may be elitist.
It may be insensitive.
It could well be poor management.
But there's nothing sexist or discriminatory about it.
So get over yourselves.Sexist and discriminatory are words reserved for folks who because of your gender won't give you a chance to play their way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29727921</id>
	<title>Sexism in technology drives women away</title>
	<author>rlh100</author>
	<datestamp>1255362900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The sexist environment is not keeping women out.  It is driving them away.</p><p>Find a female friend involved with computers and ask them what they think.</p><p>I know many female systems administrators that have left the field.  And in talking to them the common theme is that they get tired of the macho environment.</p><p>To flip the coin how would you as guy feel about working in an environment where:<br>1) The after hours activities were knitting and quilting and if you missed these activities you were likely to miss important discussions about work.<br>2) The casual discussion was about how rude men were and their social blunders.<br>3) Where a casual off color comment was met with a: "tisk, tisk, tisk, we all know how immature men are"<br>4) Where you were judged by how neat and tidy your desk was: "you know Joe, if you put your papers away it would be so much nicer"<br>5) Where you were reminded of what a terrible date you would make.<br>6) You would overhear comments about what a slob you were every time your shirt came un-tucked.</p><p>I know that I would leave fairly quickly.  I suspect that this is what sexism feels like.</p><p>Now these are not the same activities as male sexism but they relate:<br>1) Lets go the strip club when we get off<br>2) Comparing the looks, tits, legs of co-workers, girlfriends, stars<br>3) Casual sexual comments or slang that is sexual in nature<br>4) When someone talks about how hard something was to do or was a last minute rush being told that "real coders work best in all nighters".<br>5) Hitting on a coworker<br>6) Whistles, rude comments, nudges and winks.</p><p>It is not that we men are actively turning women away.  We create an environment that is not pleasant for women to be around.  They get tired of it and they leave.  The split is made and we loose something.</p><p>We know men are men and we are big and tough.  But... It is kind of a drag to work in a department of 5 men in a company with less than 10\% women.  But hey it is a social gaming site and that is a real sexist environment.</p><p>RLH</p><p>PS, I will be the first to admit that my female examples are sexist.  A woman would have better examples.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The sexist environment is not keeping women out .
It is driving them away.Find a female friend involved with computers and ask them what they think.I know many female systems administrators that have left the field .
And in talking to them the common theme is that they get tired of the macho environment.To flip the coin how would you as guy feel about working in an environment where : 1 ) The after hours activities were knitting and quilting and if you missed these activities you were likely to miss important discussions about work.2 ) The casual discussion was about how rude men were and their social blunders.3 ) Where a casual off color comment was met with a : " tisk , tisk , tisk , we all know how immature men are " 4 ) Where you were judged by how neat and tidy your desk was : " you know Joe , if you put your papers away it would be so much nicer " 5 ) Where you were reminded of what a terrible date you would make.6 ) You would overhear comments about what a slob you were every time your shirt came un-tucked.I know that I would leave fairly quickly .
I suspect that this is what sexism feels like.Now these are not the same activities as male sexism but they relate : 1 ) Lets go the strip club when we get off2 ) Comparing the looks , tits , legs of co-workers , girlfriends , stars3 ) Casual sexual comments or slang that is sexual in nature4 ) When someone talks about how hard something was to do or was a last minute rush being told that " real coders work best in all nighters " .5 ) Hitting on a coworker6 ) Whistles , rude comments , nudges and winks.It is not that we men are actively turning women away .
We create an environment that is not pleasant for women to be around .
They get tired of it and they leave .
The split is made and we loose something.We know men are men and we are big and tough .
But... It is kind of a drag to work in a department of 5 men in a company with less than 10 \ % women .
But hey it is a social gaming site and that is a real sexist environment.RLHPS , I will be the first to admit that my female examples are sexist .
A woman would have better examples .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sexist environment is not keeping women out.
It is driving them away.Find a female friend involved with computers and ask them what they think.I know many female systems administrators that have left the field.
And in talking to them the common theme is that they get tired of the macho environment.To flip the coin how would you as guy feel about working in an environment where:1) The after hours activities were knitting and quilting and if you missed these activities you were likely to miss important discussions about work.2) The casual discussion was about how rude men were and their social blunders.3) Where a casual off color comment was met with a: "tisk, tisk, tisk, we all know how immature men are"4) Where you were judged by how neat and tidy your desk was: "you know Joe, if you put your papers away it would be so much nicer"5) Where you were reminded of what a terrible date you would make.6) You would overhear comments about what a slob you were every time your shirt came un-tucked.I know that I would leave fairly quickly.
I suspect that this is what sexism feels like.Now these are not the same activities as male sexism but they relate:1) Lets go the strip club when we get off2) Comparing the looks, tits, legs of co-workers, girlfriends, stars3) Casual sexual comments or slang that is sexual in nature4) When someone talks about how hard something was to do or was a last minute rush being told that "real coders work best in all nighters".5) Hitting on a coworker6) Whistles, rude comments, nudges and winks.It is not that we men are actively turning women away.
We create an environment that is not pleasant for women to be around.
They get tired of it and they leave.
The split is made and we loose something.We know men are men and we are big and tough.
But... It is kind of a drag to work in a department of 5 men in a company with less than 10\% women.
But hey it is a social gaming site and that is a real sexist environment.RLHPS, I will be the first to admit that my female examples are sexist.
A woman would have better examples.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29728827</id>
	<title>re:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255372500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The 'mom test' was mentioned back in 2007.  http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/118863</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The 'mom test ' was mentioned back in 2007. http : //www.linux.com/archive/feature/118863</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The 'mom test' was mentioned back in 2007.  http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/118863</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721817</id>
	<title>Re:Words stuffed into our mouths</title>
	<author>nog\_lorp</author>
	<datestamp>1255374900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is absurd. I'm a white male, but I can say I definitely see enough racism or sexism around me to argue it is still something that needs discussion.</p><p>The idea that you need to intentionally discriminate to be racist or sexist makes no sense, actually. Modern discrimination usually comes from stereotyping rather than some sort of hatred.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is absurd .
I 'm a white male , but I can say I definitely see enough racism or sexism around me to argue it is still something that needs discussion.The idea that you need to intentionally discriminate to be racist or sexist makes no sense , actually .
Modern discrimination usually comes from stereotyping rather than some sort of hatred .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is absurd.
I'm a white male, but I can say I definitely see enough racism or sexism around me to argue it is still something that needs discussion.The idea that you need to intentionally discriminate to be racist or sexist makes no sense, actually.
Modern discrimination usually comes from stereotyping rather than some sort of hatred.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720463</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720779</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>jgrahn</author>
	<datestamp>1255371360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I see a contribution from a "Terry", I have no idea if that is a male or female, and really why would I care? Either the code is god, o rit isn't. Why would sex ever have any bearing at all?
</p><p>
Frankly I really don't even get how a claim of sexism could exist in the FOSS world. It just doesn't translate from meat-space, because frankly, more often than not you have no idea the sex of the person in the first place. And really, that is how it should be.</p></div></blockquote><p>
A lot of people don't want to hide, a lot of others don't like dealing with pseudonyms,
and most people aren't called Terry.
If there is a problem, going anonymous isn't a general-purpose answer.
</p><p>
What I *don't* see is why anyone should be surprised, or what the "FOSS" "community" is
supposed to do about it.  Or what kind of people Byfield met who think there is 30--45\%
women in free software.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I see a contribution from a " Terry " , I have no idea if that is a male or female , and really why would I care ?
Either the code is god , o rit is n't .
Why would sex ever have any bearing at all ?
Frankly I really do n't even get how a claim of sexism could exist in the FOSS world .
It just does n't translate from meat-space , because frankly , more often than not you have no idea the sex of the person in the first place .
And really , that is how it should be .
A lot of people do n't want to hide , a lot of others do n't like dealing with pseudonyms , and most people are n't called Terry .
If there is a problem , going anonymous is n't a general-purpose answer .
What I * do n't * see is why anyone should be surprised , or what the " FOSS " " community " is supposed to do about it .
Or what kind of people Byfield met who think there is 30--45 \ % women in free software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see a contribution from a "Terry", I have no idea if that is a male or female, and really why would I care?
Either the code is god, o rit isn't.
Why would sex ever have any bearing at all?
Frankly I really don't even get how a claim of sexism could exist in the FOSS world.
It just doesn't translate from meat-space, because frankly, more often than not you have no idea the sex of the person in the first place.
And really, that is how it should be.
A lot of people don't want to hide, a lot of others don't like dealing with pseudonyms,
and most people aren't called Terry.
If there is a problem, going anonymous isn't a general-purpose answer.
What I *don't* see is why anyone should be surprised, or what the "FOSS" "community" is
supposed to do about it.
Or what kind of people Byfield met who think there is 30--45\%
women in free software.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720447</id>
	<title>Hey women</title>
	<author>insertwackynamehere</author>
	<datestamp>1255369980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know a woman who later claim that a consensual makeout session was forced sex despite admitting that it was just an awkward makeout session. She describes a guy as "raping" her because they made out and she didn't really like him. When pressed she says "not actual rape". I know other girls who have done this too. The idea that men can be tossed around and slandered and used is sexist and the common woman seems to believe that this is acceptable. When mentioned, women will deny this is related to women as a gender and that some people are just bad. They also act as though men can't be victims and that a few men falsely accused of rape is acceptable because so many times it goes unreported. This illogic basically states that men can be torn apart by women at random because some men do bad things.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know a woman who later claim that a consensual makeout session was forced sex despite admitting that it was just an awkward makeout session .
She describes a guy as " raping " her because they made out and she did n't really like him .
When pressed she says " not actual rape " .
I know other girls who have done this too .
The idea that men can be tossed around and slandered and used is sexist and the common woman seems to believe that this is acceptable .
When mentioned , women will deny this is related to women as a gender and that some people are just bad .
They also act as though men ca n't be victims and that a few men falsely accused of rape is acceptable because so many times it goes unreported .
This illogic basically states that men can be torn apart by women at random because some men do bad things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know a woman who later claim that a consensual makeout session was forced sex despite admitting that it was just an awkward makeout session.
She describes a guy as "raping" her because they made out and she didn't really like him.
When pressed she says "not actual rape".
I know other girls who have done this too.
The idea that men can be tossed around and slandered and used is sexist and the common woman seems to believe that this is acceptable.
When mentioned, women will deny this is related to women as a gender and that some people are just bad.
They also act as though men can't be victims and that a few men falsely accused of rape is acceptable because so many times it goes unreported.
This illogic basically states that men can be torn apart by women at random because some men do bad things.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720697</id>
	<title>Woah there</title>
	<author>Random2</author>
	<datestamp>1255371120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'Yall be postin' in a troll thread now.</p><p>Really, I don't see how this isn't more than just a troll to get people to read the blog post or just a personal rant from the author.  Maybe if the article was backed up with statistics and proof would this be a worthwhile read.</p><p>Simply crying wolf won't solve a problem.  If there's an issue, present it with the data to support it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'Yall be postin ' in a troll thread now.Really , I do n't see how this is n't more than just a troll to get people to read the blog post or just a personal rant from the author .
Maybe if the article was backed up with statistics and proof would this be a worthwhile read.Simply crying wolf wo n't solve a problem .
If there 's an issue , present it with the data to support it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'Yall be postin' in a troll thread now.Really, I don't see how this isn't more than just a troll to get people to read the blog post or just a personal rant from the author.
Maybe if the article was backed up with statistics and proof would this be a worthwhile read.Simply crying wolf won't solve a problem.
If there's an issue, present it with the data to support it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29723417</id>
	<title>Re:Asking someone out is sexist?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255338540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Reducing it to sex is a bit too simple.

</p><p>I once dated a girl who made the observation that I have too many female friends.  She felt that the only reason I'd have so many women friends is because there would be a sexual chemistry.  Either they want to sleep with me, or I want to sleep with them.  That for me to have so few male friends really said something about my character.

</p><p>I gave it a lot of thought and I think it is partially true.  The conclusion I think is wrong though.  I think it is normal to have feelings of attraction to other people.  It's normal to want to have sex with other people.  It's normal also to respect boundaries, to respect their other friendships and relationships.  To respect working relationships and the nature of the workplace.

</p><p>It's also normal for our partner to be jealous of those friendships.  So what can we do about it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Reducing it to sex is a bit too simple .
I once dated a girl who made the observation that I have too many female friends .
She felt that the only reason I 'd have so many women friends is because there would be a sexual chemistry .
Either they want to sleep with me , or I want to sleep with them .
That for me to have so few male friends really said something about my character .
I gave it a lot of thought and I think it is partially true .
The conclusion I think is wrong though .
I think it is normal to have feelings of attraction to other people .
It 's normal to want to have sex with other people .
It 's normal also to respect boundaries , to respect their other friendships and relationships .
To respect working relationships and the nature of the workplace .
It 's also normal for our partner to be jealous of those friendships .
So what can we do about it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reducing it to sex is a bit too simple.
I once dated a girl who made the observation that I have too many female friends.
She felt that the only reason I'd have so many women friends is because there would be a sexual chemistry.
Either they want to sleep with me, or I want to sleep with them.
That for me to have so few male friends really said something about my character.
I gave it a lot of thought and I think it is partially true.
The conclusion I think is wrong though.
I think it is normal to have feelings of attraction to other people.
It's normal to want to have sex with other people.
It's normal also to respect boundaries, to respect their other friendships and relationships.
To respect working relationships and the nature of the workplace.
It's also normal for our partner to be jealous of those friendships.
So what can we do about it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722729</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721545</id>
	<title>Re:How can sexism even be an issue in FOSS...</title>
	<author>canajin56</author>
	<datestamp>1255374000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's the same argument as you'll find in CS and Math departments.  There are less women who want to be there, therefore the boys club must be discouraging them from even trying.  Therefore, we are sexist.  It doesn't matter than in FOSS we don't even KNOW that they're women.  The mere fact that most FOSS developers are men makes women not want to associate with it.  In CS programs they're always worried as hell about how few women apply, that they're going to be sued as sexist, even if they accept all female applicants.  It's a serious and eternal panic.  Affirmative action makes it worse.  If you accept applicants based only on their qualifications, you get blasted for accepting so few women (because so few women applied) and are sexist.  But do you know what they say when they see how much lower women score in your courses?  Your faculty is sexist and marks women more harshly.  It's a no-win situation.  The feminists propose the solution of making Math more sexy.  They claim Math was designed by men, for men, to exclude women by making it unappealing to them.  This always strikes me as a horribly sexist opinion, but what do I know, with my primitive male brain.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the same argument as you 'll find in CS and Math departments .
There are less women who want to be there , therefore the boys club must be discouraging them from even trying .
Therefore , we are sexist .
It does n't matter than in FOSS we do n't even KNOW that they 're women .
The mere fact that most FOSS developers are men makes women not want to associate with it .
In CS programs they 're always worried as hell about how few women apply , that they 're going to be sued as sexist , even if they accept all female applicants .
It 's a serious and eternal panic .
Affirmative action makes it worse .
If you accept applicants based only on their qualifications , you get blasted for accepting so few women ( because so few women applied ) and are sexist .
But do you know what they say when they see how much lower women score in your courses ?
Your faculty is sexist and marks women more harshly .
It 's a no-win situation .
The feminists propose the solution of making Math more sexy .
They claim Math was designed by men , for men , to exclude women by making it unappealing to them .
This always strikes me as a horribly sexist opinion , but what do I know , with my primitive male brain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the same argument as you'll find in CS and Math departments.
There are less women who want to be there, therefore the boys club must be discouraging them from even trying.
Therefore, we are sexist.
It doesn't matter than in FOSS we don't even KNOW that they're women.
The mere fact that most FOSS developers are men makes women not want to associate with it.
In CS programs they're always worried as hell about how few women apply, that they're going to be sued as sexist, even if they accept all female applicants.
It's a serious and eternal panic.
Affirmative action makes it worse.
If you accept applicants based only on their qualifications, you get blasted for accepting so few women (because so few women applied) and are sexist.
But do you know what they say when they see how much lower women score in your courses?
Your faculty is sexist and marks women more harshly.
It's a no-win situation.
The feminists propose the solution of making Math more sexy.
They claim Math was designed by men, for men, to exclude women by making it unappealing to them.
This always strikes me as a horribly sexist opinion, but what do I know, with my primitive male brain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29732959</id>
	<title>Re:Sexism is mostly an excuse for stupid women</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255453680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>However it's highly unlikely that every single woman in the FOSS community is a giant pain in the arse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>However it 's highly unlikely that every single woman in the FOSS community is a giant pain in the arse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>However it's highly unlikely that every single woman in the FOSS community is a giant pain in the arse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720709</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725027</id>
	<title>Re:Oh brother.</title>
	<author>pugugly</author>
	<datestamp>1255345020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Heck - let's be fair - *I* can't take a joke either, sometime they really piss me off . . . except<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; oh, yeah, I'm expected to laugh off entire movies aimed at my gender.<br>I'd like to have a life too  . . .<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Oh, wait, I'm posting from a 4-midnight shift I've been on for over five years, because they can trust me. I've seen women get transferred off this shift after six months, max.</p><p>There is a sense that a lot of feminism isn't that women don't have legitimate grievances - but that everyone had legitimate grievances but suddenly it's important when it's women.</p><p>Pug</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Heck - let 's be fair - * I * ca n't take a joke either , sometime they really piss me off .
. .
except     oh , yeah , I 'm expected to laugh off entire movies aimed at my gender.I 'd like to have a life too .
. .
    Oh , wait , I 'm posting from a 4-midnight shift I 've been on for over five years , because they can trust me .
I 've seen women get transferred off this shift after six months , max.There is a sense that a lot of feminism is n't that women do n't have legitimate grievances - but that everyone had legitimate grievances but suddenly it 's important when it 's women.Pug</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heck - let's be fair - *I* can't take a joke either, sometime they really piss me off .
. .
except
    oh, yeah, I'm expected to laugh off entire movies aimed at my gender.I'd like to have a life too  .
. .
    Oh, wait, I'm posting from a 4-midnight shift I've been on for over five years, because they can trust me.
I've seen women get transferred off this shift after six months, max.There is a sense that a lot of feminism isn't that women don't have legitimate grievances - but that everyone had legitimate grievances but suddenly it's important when it's women.Pug</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725243</id>
	<title>equality is multilateral</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255346160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here are the typical fallacies used by feminists to justify their gender-based entitlement:</p><p>1. because an occupation has a large male/female ratio does not mean it's due to discrimination. Most women aren't excited enough about computing for the same reasons most men aren't excited enough about nursing to do it for a living. That doesn't mean that men are cyborgs and women are softies. It is simply a matter of general temperament. This is OKAY no matter what the activists say. In 99\% of these cases, people have self-selected careers based on their temperaments. Men think, women feel.  Is that really a shocker?</p><p>2. men make more than women.  Perhaps, but they also take a disproportionate percentage of the dangerous work.  They are also expected to work longer hours on average than women.  While women have been 'liberated', the same old stereotypical expectations for men havent' changed: put up, shut up, don't complain, and take it in silence. It's the macho way, and when men see women getting special treatment, it breeds resentment.</p><p>3. men tend to have more power in an organization. While true, it comes with sacrifices, usually in free time, stress load, and a general feeling of entrapment.  Do some men abuse it? Sure, just like some women do. Again, this is largely due to psychology. If you'll note, the women who do make it up the ladders end up being the strong, steely types. This is due to a confluence of power, expectation, and responsibility. It is NOT simply men holding women back.</p><p>4. A litany of hypocrisies: If a man tells a 'dirty' joke at work, it's automatic 'harrassment' but if she tells the joke, it's 'empowerment.' It's ok for women to initiate flirting at work, but if men do it, it's 'harassment' if she finds him unattractive. It's ok for women to hit men, but not the other way around. Men are expected to hold doors for women. Men are expected to pay for dates.  In each of these cases, women are being taught that it's ok to be irresponsible, narcissistic and childish.  It's no wonder that this has bred a counter-culture of distrust in organizations where men have the largest pwoerbase.</p><p>Women have prejudice too and it shapes the expectations for men.  Right now, we have a mix of 12 century chivalry and 21st century female entitlement/victimhood.  Which rules apply depends upon the whims of the woman in question so, either way, the man usually ends up with the short stick. We have a whole generation of female prima donnas running around, expecting men to wait on them like royalty, and a generation of men who think they have to kowtow to their every whim and curtail their own natures.  We call them 'gentlemen.' The net result of this societal manipulation is that we're breeding a generation of men who are constantly being told they're wrong to be what they are, while telling women they're not responsible for anything. This weakens society because the traditional man, who picked up most of the slack, is becoming pussified while the woman who should be picking it up, isn't.</p><p>This shit is everywhere. Turn on the tv, watch a few commercials or sitcoms, and you'll see that the only remaining stereotype that still takes a beating is the white, straight male. It's the last 'safe' stereotype. In high school health class, we tell the males 'it takes two,' while we tell the females that pregnancy = victimhood.  'It takes two' becomes 'it's all HIS fault' in courtrooms and talk shows everywhere.  Apparently, society still expects men to provide women with a safety net when they're pregnant even though she had 50\% of the responsibility for jumping into bed in the first place. He gets no say while she gets to wallow in her emotional whims concerning the baby. Of course, when she decides to have the baby, his wallet becomes hers. Equality this is not. It is no better than if men had the right to use women as incubators.</p><p>Personally, I don't give a shit if some commercial uses stereotypes to sell a product.  I just think this activism has sensitized society too much. Men even more so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here are the typical fallacies used by feminists to justify their gender-based entitlement : 1. because an occupation has a large male/female ratio does not mean it 's due to discrimination .
Most women are n't excited enough about computing for the same reasons most men are n't excited enough about nursing to do it for a living .
That does n't mean that men are cyborgs and women are softies .
It is simply a matter of general temperament .
This is OKAY no matter what the activists say .
In 99 \ % of these cases , people have self-selected careers based on their temperaments .
Men think , women feel .
Is that really a shocker ? 2 .
men make more than women .
Perhaps , but they also take a disproportionate percentage of the dangerous work .
They are also expected to work longer hours on average than women .
While women have been 'liberated ' , the same old stereotypical expectations for men havent ' changed : put up , shut up , do n't complain , and take it in silence .
It 's the macho way , and when men see women getting special treatment , it breeds resentment.3 .
men tend to have more power in an organization .
While true , it comes with sacrifices , usually in free time , stress load , and a general feeling of entrapment .
Do some men abuse it ?
Sure , just like some women do .
Again , this is largely due to psychology .
If you 'll note , the women who do make it up the ladders end up being the strong , steely types .
This is due to a confluence of power , expectation , and responsibility .
It is NOT simply men holding women back.4 .
A litany of hypocrisies : If a man tells a 'dirty ' joke at work , it 's automatic 'harrassment ' but if she tells the joke , it 's 'empowerment .
' It 's ok for women to initiate flirting at work , but if men do it , it 's 'harassment ' if she finds him unattractive .
It 's ok for women to hit men , but not the other way around .
Men are expected to hold doors for women .
Men are expected to pay for dates .
In each of these cases , women are being taught that it 's ok to be irresponsible , narcissistic and childish .
It 's no wonder that this has bred a counter-culture of distrust in organizations where men have the largest pwoerbase.Women have prejudice too and it shapes the expectations for men .
Right now , we have a mix of 12 century chivalry and 21st century female entitlement/victimhood .
Which rules apply depends upon the whims of the woman in question so , either way , the man usually ends up with the short stick .
We have a whole generation of female prima donnas running around , expecting men to wait on them like royalty , and a generation of men who think they have to kowtow to their every whim and curtail their own natures .
We call them 'gentlemen .
' The net result of this societal manipulation is that we 're breeding a generation of men who are constantly being told they 're wrong to be what they are , while telling women they 're not responsible for anything .
This weakens society because the traditional man , who picked up most of the slack , is becoming pussified while the woman who should be picking it up , is n't.This shit is everywhere .
Turn on the tv , watch a few commercials or sitcoms , and you 'll see that the only remaining stereotype that still takes a beating is the white , straight male .
It 's the last 'safe ' stereotype .
In high school health class , we tell the males 'it takes two, ' while we tell the females that pregnancy = victimhood .
'It takes two ' becomes 'it 's all HIS fault ' in courtrooms and talk shows everywhere .
Apparently , society still expects men to provide women with a safety net when they 're pregnant even though she had 50 \ % of the responsibility for jumping into bed in the first place .
He gets no say while she gets to wallow in her emotional whims concerning the baby .
Of course , when she decides to have the baby , his wallet becomes hers .
Equality this is not .
It is no better than if men had the right to use women as incubators.Personally , I do n't give a shit if some commercial uses stereotypes to sell a product .
I just think this activism has sensitized society too much .
Men even more so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here are the typical fallacies used by feminists to justify their gender-based entitlement:1. because an occupation has a large male/female ratio does not mean it's due to discrimination.
Most women aren't excited enough about computing for the same reasons most men aren't excited enough about nursing to do it for a living.
That doesn't mean that men are cyborgs and women are softies.
It is simply a matter of general temperament.
This is OKAY no matter what the activists say.
In 99\% of these cases, people have self-selected careers based on their temperaments.
Men think, women feel.
Is that really a shocker?2.
men make more than women.
Perhaps, but they also take a disproportionate percentage of the dangerous work.
They are also expected to work longer hours on average than women.
While women have been 'liberated', the same old stereotypical expectations for men havent' changed: put up, shut up, don't complain, and take it in silence.
It's the macho way, and when men see women getting special treatment, it breeds resentment.3.
men tend to have more power in an organization.
While true, it comes with sacrifices, usually in free time, stress load, and a general feeling of entrapment.
Do some men abuse it?
Sure, just like some women do.
Again, this is largely due to psychology.
If you'll note, the women who do make it up the ladders end up being the strong, steely types.
This is due to a confluence of power, expectation, and responsibility.
It is NOT simply men holding women back.4.
A litany of hypocrisies: If a man tells a 'dirty' joke at work, it's automatic 'harrassment' but if she tells the joke, it's 'empowerment.
' It's ok for women to initiate flirting at work, but if men do it, it's 'harassment' if she finds him unattractive.
It's ok for women to hit men, but not the other way around.
Men are expected to hold doors for women.
Men are expected to pay for dates.
In each of these cases, women are being taught that it's ok to be irresponsible, narcissistic and childish.
It's no wonder that this has bred a counter-culture of distrust in organizations where men have the largest pwoerbase.Women have prejudice too and it shapes the expectations for men.
Right now, we have a mix of 12 century chivalry and 21st century female entitlement/victimhood.
Which rules apply depends upon the whims of the woman in question so, either way, the man usually ends up with the short stick.
We have a whole generation of female prima donnas running around, expecting men to wait on them like royalty, and a generation of men who think they have to kowtow to their every whim and curtail their own natures.
We call them 'gentlemen.
' The net result of this societal manipulation is that we're breeding a generation of men who are constantly being told they're wrong to be what they are, while telling women they're not responsible for anything.
This weakens society because the traditional man, who picked up most of the slack, is becoming pussified while the woman who should be picking it up, isn't.This shit is everywhere.
Turn on the tv, watch a few commercials or sitcoms, and you'll see that the only remaining stereotype that still takes a beating is the white, straight male.
It's the last 'safe' stereotype.
In high school health class, we tell the males 'it takes two,' while we tell the females that pregnancy = victimhood.
'It takes two' becomes 'it's all HIS fault' in courtrooms and talk shows everywhere.
Apparently, society still expects men to provide women with a safety net when they're pregnant even though she had 50\% of the responsibility for jumping into bed in the first place.
He gets no say while she gets to wallow in her emotional whims concerning the baby.
Of course, when she decides to have the baby, his wallet becomes hers.
Equality this is not.
It is no better than if men had the right to use women as incubators.Personally, I don't give a shit if some commercial uses stereotypes to sell a product.
I just think this activism has sensitized society too much.
Men even more so.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29722601</id>
	<title>I think this person is very FOSSist !</title>
	<author>Zero\_\_Kelvin</author>
	<datestamp>1255378020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I read what was written, and I was assuming it was a man who wrote it.  I thought "what a bunch of bullshit".  It turns out that it was a woman who wrote it, and so what was my new thought on the subject (tempered by sexism, of course) ?  What a bunch of bullshit.  FOSS isn't any different from any other area of life.  There are sexists, racists, philanthropists, great guys and gals, and real asshats.  To think otherwise is, shall we say, fossist ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I read what was written , and I was assuming it was a man who wrote it .
I thought " what a bunch of bullshit " .
It turns out that it was a woman who wrote it , and so what was my new thought on the subject ( tempered by sexism , of course ) ?
What a bunch of bullshit .
FOSS is n't any different from any other area of life .
There are sexists , racists , philanthropists , great guys and gals , and real asshats .
To think otherwise is , shall we say , fossist ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read what was written, and I was assuming it was a man who wrote it.
I thought "what a bunch of bullshit".
It turns out that it was a woman who wrote it, and so what was my new thought on the subject (tempered by sexism, of course) ?
What a bunch of bullshit.
FOSS isn't any different from any other area of life.
There are sexists, racists, philanthropists, great guys and gals, and real asshats.
To think otherwise is, shall we say, fossist ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29729363</id>
	<title>Re:let me get this straight</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255467240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean being called a homo isn't abuse? You mean you wouldn't want to be called a homosexual, a faggot or a shit-stabber?</p><p>Heck, I would be upset if that happenned.. and I would ass rape the guy/girl who calls me that with a broomstick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean being called a homo is n't abuse ?
You mean you would n't want to be called a homosexual , a faggot or a shit-stabber ? Heck , I would be upset if that happenned.. and I would ass rape the guy/girl who calls me that with a broomstick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean being called a homo isn't abuse?
You mean you wouldn't want to be called a homosexual, a faggot or a shit-stabber?Heck, I would be upset if that happenned.. and I would ass rape the guy/girl who calls me that with a broomstick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29721251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720705</id>
	<title>What a pile of cack</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255371120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; They seem unaware that institutions and customs can be sexist simply by what they value or how they operate, that even something like a discourse developed by men talking to men can institutionalize sexism. Nor do they understand that, by simply accepting such institutions or ways of acting, they become supporters of sexism.</p><p>Maybe they understand what you are trying to say perfectly well, but think its a pile of steaming of crap. A bunch of the arguments boil down to saying people could only be disagreeing with because they are too ignorant or stupid to know better.</p><p>&gt; Similarly, I assumed that, in the FOSS community, if you were a free software supporter, you were concerned about social justice and would therefore be against sexism as well.</p><p>Social justice... ffs.. maybe there is a correlation between caring about free software issues and issues that matter, such as.. I don't know, actual social justice, meaning issues of people being murdered, enslaved, raped or denied education, healthcare, opportunity, whatever. Maybe your interpretation of people not falling over themselves to appease your particular interpretation of how they ought to behave does not entirely correlate with not caring about social justice.</p><p>In summary, fuck off and take your smug, self righteous, time-wasting bullshit <a href="http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/" title="elsewhere.org" rel="nofollow">elsewhere</a> [elsewhere.org] please.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; They seem unaware that institutions and customs can be sexist simply by what they value or how they operate , that even something like a discourse developed by men talking to men can institutionalize sexism .
Nor do they understand that , by simply accepting such institutions or ways of acting , they become supporters of sexism.Maybe they understand what you are trying to say perfectly well , but think its a pile of steaming of crap .
A bunch of the arguments boil down to saying people could only be disagreeing with because they are too ignorant or stupid to know better. &gt; Similarly , I assumed that , in the FOSS community , if you were a free software supporter , you were concerned about social justice and would therefore be against sexism as well.Social justice... ffs.. maybe there is a correlation between caring about free software issues and issues that matter , such as.. I do n't know , actual social justice , meaning issues of people being murdered , enslaved , raped or denied education , healthcare , opportunity , whatever .
Maybe your interpretation of people not falling over themselves to appease your particular interpretation of how they ought to behave does not entirely correlate with not caring about social justice.In summary , fuck off and take your smug , self righteous , time-wasting bullshit elsewhere [ elsewhere.org ] please .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; They seem unaware that institutions and customs can be sexist simply by what they value or how they operate, that even something like a discourse developed by men talking to men can institutionalize sexism.
Nor do they understand that, by simply accepting such institutions or ways of acting, they become supporters of sexism.Maybe they understand what you are trying to say perfectly well, but think its a pile of steaming of crap.
A bunch of the arguments boil down to saying people could only be disagreeing with because they are too ignorant or stupid to know better.&gt; Similarly, I assumed that, in the FOSS community, if you were a free software supporter, you were concerned about social justice and would therefore be against sexism as well.Social justice... ffs.. maybe there is a correlation between caring about free software issues and issues that matter, such as.. I don't know, actual social justice, meaning issues of people being murdered, enslaved, raped or denied education, healthcare, opportunity, whatever.
Maybe your interpretation of people not falling over themselves to appease your particular interpretation of how they ought to behave does not entirely correlate with not caring about social justice.In summary, fuck off and take your smug, self righteous, time-wasting bullshit elsewhere [elsewhere.org] please.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29725583</id>
	<title>Re:No, he's mistaken.</title>
	<author>Fulcrum of Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1255347540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Angels on a pin (of indeterminate gender OF COURSE).</p></div><p>Of course - angels are androgynes since they don't reproduce, right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Angels on a pin ( of indeterminate gender OF COURSE ) .Of course - angels are androgynes since they do n't reproduce , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Angels on a pin (of indeterminate gender OF COURSE).Of course - angels are androgynes since they don't reproduce, right?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720895</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_74</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720661
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_109</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720783
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_52</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720681
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_43</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_103</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_66</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_29</id>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_71</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720783
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_42</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_33</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_12_1512238.29720419
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_19</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_94</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_10</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_4</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_84</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_12_1512238_58</id>
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