<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_14_1551210</id>
	<title>Suggestions For Learning FPGA Development At Home?</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1247590020000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Doug writes <i>"I've recently been inspired to take up amateur electronics, specifically with FPGAs. I have an understanding of the basics, plus a solid programming background. From my research so far I've concluded that I should start with a simple FPGA development board and a couple of books on Verilog and/or VHDL and go from there. I found this Ask Slashdot discussion on <a href="http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/05/31/187208/VHDL-or-Verilog-For-Learning-FPGAs">Verilog vs VHDL</a> very useful, but it focuses more on the development language rather than hardware. I'd be very interested in hearing peoples' recommendations for an entry-level kit that is simple, flexible, and affordable (sub-&pound;200), and preferably Linux-friendly, and indeed any other wise words that experienced FPGA developers (professional or amateur) might have for a novice just starting out in the world of circuit design."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Doug writes " I 've recently been inspired to take up amateur electronics , specifically with FPGAs .
I have an understanding of the basics , plus a solid programming background .
From my research so far I 've concluded that I should start with a simple FPGA development board and a couple of books on Verilog and/or VHDL and go from there .
I found this Ask Slashdot discussion on Verilog vs VHDL very useful , but it focuses more on the development language rather than hardware .
I 'd be very interested in hearing peoples ' recommendations for an entry-level kit that is simple , flexible , and affordable ( sub-   200 ) , and preferably Linux-friendly , and indeed any other wise words that experienced FPGA developers ( professional or amateur ) might have for a novice just starting out in the world of circuit design .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doug writes "I've recently been inspired to take up amateur electronics, specifically with FPGAs.
I have an understanding of the basics, plus a solid programming background.
From my research so far I've concluded that I should start with a simple FPGA development board and a couple of books on Verilog and/or VHDL and go from there.
I found this Ask Slashdot discussion on Verilog vs VHDL very useful, but it focuses more on the development language rather than hardware.
I'd be very interested in hearing peoples' recommendations for an entry-level kit that is simple, flexible, and affordable (sub-£200), and preferably Linux-friendly, and indeed any other wise words that experienced FPGA developers (professional or amateur) might have for a novice just starting out in the world of circuit design.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693365</id>
	<title>Shameless Plug</title>
	<author>greatica</author>
	<datestamp>1247596020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In most of our EE classes, we purchased some educational boards from Digilent.</p><p><a href="http://www.digilentinc.com/" title="digilentinc.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.digilentinc.com/</a> [digilentinc.com]</p><p>I have no frame of reference, but I enjoyed working with them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In most of our EE classes , we purchased some educational boards from Digilent.http : //www.digilentinc.com/ [ digilentinc.com ] I have no frame of reference , but I enjoyed working with them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In most of our EE classes, we purchased some educational boards from Digilent.http://www.digilentinc.com/ [digilentinc.com]I have no frame of reference, but I enjoyed working with them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693329</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>gambit3</author>
	<datestamp>1247595900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I second the recommendation for the FOLD book.<br>I used it in college (also about 15 years ago), and I loved it so much I ended up buying an updated version when I ran across it at a Half-Price books recently.</p><p>If you've never done logic design, it will take you from the basics on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I second the recommendation for the FOLD book.I used it in college ( also about 15 years ago ) , and I loved it so much I ended up buying an updated version when I ran across it at a Half-Price books recently.If you 've never done logic design , it will take you from the basics on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I second the recommendation for the FOLD book.I used it in college (also about 15 years ago), and I loved it so much I ended up buying an updated version when I ran across it at a Half-Price books recently.If you've never done logic design, it will take you from the basics on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28695535</id>
	<title>FPGA programming is very, very different</title>
	<author>paul42w</author>
	<datestamp>1247562960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This really is not a task for programmers.  It is a task for an engineer that has done both logic and software design.

I've been programming FPGA's since Xilinx came out with their first chips.  At the time, it was all schematic capture.  Place and route never completed on its own, it always required user editing to finish.

FPGA design techniques depend on your constraints.  For some projects, it is much cheaper to buy a very large FPGA and not worry about space optimization.  If you are building thousands of the same device, then space optimization is critical.  For other projects, logic timing is everything.

Every chip has it's own constraints as well, especially if speed is an issue.  When speed is an issue, you have to really understand how your VHDL will be implemented, because it will make all the difference between sucess &amp; failure.

Learning how to use constraint files is important.  Learning how to test using simulations is critical.  Time spent writing and runing simulations may exceed design time for an order of magnitude.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This really is not a task for programmers .
It is a task for an engineer that has done both logic and software design .
I 've been programming FPGA 's since Xilinx came out with their first chips .
At the time , it was all schematic capture .
Place and route never completed on its own , it always required user editing to finish .
FPGA design techniques depend on your constraints .
For some projects , it is much cheaper to buy a very large FPGA and not worry about space optimization .
If you are building thousands of the same device , then space optimization is critical .
For other projects , logic timing is everything .
Every chip has it 's own constraints as well , especially if speed is an issue .
When speed is an issue , you have to really understand how your VHDL will be implemented , because it will make all the difference between sucess &amp; failure .
Learning how to use constraint files is important .
Learning how to test using simulations is critical .
Time spent writing and runing simulations may exceed design time for an order of magnitude .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This really is not a task for programmers.
It is a task for an engineer that has done both logic and software design.
I've been programming FPGA's since Xilinx came out with their first chips.
At the time, it was all schematic capture.
Place and route never completed on its own, it always required user editing to finish.
FPGA design techniques depend on your constraints.
For some projects, it is much cheaper to buy a very large FPGA and not worry about space optimization.
If you are building thousands of the same device, then space optimization is critical.
For other projects, logic timing is everything.
Every chip has it's own constraints as well, especially if speed is an issue.
When speed is an issue, you have to really understand how your VHDL will be implemented, because it will make all the difference between sucess &amp; failure.
Learning how to use constraint files is important.
Learning how to test using simulations is critical.
Time spent writing and runing simulations may exceed design time for an order of magnitude.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694047</id>
	<title>Verilog</title>
	<author>SkOink</author>
	<datestamp>1247598840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My advice would be to learn Verilog first, particularly if you're coming from a computer science background. I find Verilog to be much cleaner and easier to read / understand. On the hobbyist (or even the small-scale professional) level, Verilog will probably be easier than VHDL.</p><p>I find that VHDL scales to extremely large designs better than Verilog (much better generate statements, pre-processing macros, and paramterization). VHDL is also better if you're really strict on version control and module heirarchy. But if you're working on a one-man project, you probably don't need or want VHDL's unnecessary complexity.</p><p>Ultimately, both languages do the same thing and in basically the same way. When you get down to the actual nitty gritty where you're writing the HDL, they're pretty similar. They differ mostly in how they handle passing arguments to- and from- modules, and what kind of compile-time constructs they support.</p><p>Last but not least, I would also recommend starting off with Xilinx's Webpack and a Spartan-3 starter board. Get something with a digital-analog converter and an analog-digital converter too, some LEDs and pushbuttons, a UART transceiver, and a ton of GPIO headers. GPIO is where FPGAs really shine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My advice would be to learn Verilog first , particularly if you 're coming from a computer science background .
I find Verilog to be much cleaner and easier to read / understand .
On the hobbyist ( or even the small-scale professional ) level , Verilog will probably be easier than VHDL.I find that VHDL scales to extremely large designs better than Verilog ( much better generate statements , pre-processing macros , and paramterization ) .
VHDL is also better if you 're really strict on version control and module heirarchy .
But if you 're working on a one-man project , you probably do n't need or want VHDL 's unnecessary complexity.Ultimately , both languages do the same thing and in basically the same way .
When you get down to the actual nitty gritty where you 're writing the HDL , they 're pretty similar .
They differ mostly in how they handle passing arguments to- and from- modules , and what kind of compile-time constructs they support.Last but not least , I would also recommend starting off with Xilinx 's Webpack and a Spartan-3 starter board .
Get something with a digital-analog converter and an analog-digital converter too , some LEDs and pushbuttons , a UART transceiver , and a ton of GPIO headers .
GPIO is where FPGAs really shine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My advice would be to learn Verilog first, particularly if you're coming from a computer science background.
I find Verilog to be much cleaner and easier to read / understand.
On the hobbyist (or even the small-scale professional) level, Verilog will probably be easier than VHDL.I find that VHDL scales to extremely large designs better than Verilog (much better generate statements, pre-processing macros, and paramterization).
VHDL is also better if you're really strict on version control and module heirarchy.
But if you're working on a one-man project, you probably don't need or want VHDL's unnecessary complexity.Ultimately, both languages do the same thing and in basically the same way.
When you get down to the actual nitty gritty where you're writing the HDL, they're pretty similar.
They differ mostly in how they handle passing arguments to- and from- modules, and what kind of compile-time constructs they support.Last but not least, I would also recommend starting off with Xilinx's Webpack and a Spartan-3 starter board.
Get something with a digital-analog converter and an analog-digital converter too, some LEDs and pushbuttons, a UART transceiver, and a ton of GPIO headers.
GPIO is where FPGAs really shine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28700039</id>
	<title>Cheap PCI FPGA boards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247592000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The question is a good one to ask.<br>Finding cheap FPGA dev boards is not all that tricky, depending on your needs.</p><p>I am in a similar situation:<br>I am trying to locate a cheap FPGA dev board with a PCI interface. Ideally, with a PCI logic chip on the board so I don't have to design and verify the PCI logic. By cheap, I mean around $200 US.</p><p>If anyone knows of anything apart from the RaggedStone (which looks pretty good) I would like to hear about it.</p><p>Cheers.<br>S.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The question is a good one to ask.Finding cheap FPGA dev boards is not all that tricky , depending on your needs.I am in a similar situation : I am trying to locate a cheap FPGA dev board with a PCI interface .
Ideally , with a PCI logic chip on the board so I do n't have to design and verify the PCI logic .
By cheap , I mean around $ 200 US.If anyone knows of anything apart from the RaggedStone ( which looks pretty good ) I would like to hear about it.Cheers.S .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The question is a good one to ask.Finding cheap FPGA dev boards is not all that tricky, depending on your needs.I am in a similar situation:I am trying to locate a cheap FPGA dev board with a PCI interface.
Ideally, with a PCI logic chip on the board so I don't have to design and verify the PCI logic.
By cheap, I mean around $200 US.If anyone knows of anything apart from the RaggedStone (which looks pretty good) I would like to hear about it.Cheers.S.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28738767</id>
	<title>Use Verilog</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247860380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you have any background in "C" or "C++" then use Verilog - the I/O routines are very similar, making testbenches easier to write than in VHDL (at least for me, anyway) I started out learning VHDL, but switched over to Verilog and I'll never go back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have any background in " C " or " C + + " then use Verilog - the I/O routines are very similar , making testbenches easier to write than in VHDL ( at least for me , anyway ) I started out learning VHDL , but switched over to Verilog and I 'll never go back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have any background in "C" or "C++" then use Verilog - the I/O routines are very similar, making testbenches easier to write than in VHDL (at least for me, anyway) I started out learning VHDL, but switched over to Verilog and I'll never go back.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694967</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247603400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also remember that hardware<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/= software. Algorithms are often expressed very differently than their software equivalent. A good example to look at would be something like a median filter (search for xapp953 on xilinx.com). If you can understand why it's designed that way you'll be well on your way to understanding hardware design.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also remember that hardware / = software .
Algorithms are often expressed very differently than their software equivalent .
A good example to look at would be something like a median filter ( search for xapp953 on xilinx.com ) .
If you can understand why it 's designed that way you 'll be well on your way to understanding hardware design .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also remember that hardware /= software.
Algorithms are often expressed very differently than their software equivalent.
A good example to look at would be something like a median filter (search for xapp953 on xilinx.com).
If you can understand why it's designed that way you'll be well on your way to understanding hardware design.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28701359</id>
	<title>Very good 101 blogg</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247655300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hi<br>You should check this blogg, this guys had some time over and started from scratch and have documented it in a very good way<br>http://svenand.blogdrive.com/archive/11.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>HiYou should check this blogg , this guys had some time over and started from scratch and have documented it in a very good wayhttp : //svenand.blogdrive.com/archive/11.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HiYou should check this blogg, this guys had some time over and started from scratch and have documented it in a very good wayhttp://svenand.blogdrive.com/archive/11.html</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694549</id>
	<title>Digilent</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247601180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Digilent (http://www.digilent.us) makes good development kits. They tend to be pretty inexpensive and a good value. If you have the cash their XUP board has a good FPGA chip and a lot of great peripherals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Digilent ( http : //www.digilent.us ) makes good development kits .
They tend to be pretty inexpensive and a good value .
If you have the cash their XUP board has a good FPGA chip and a lot of great peripherals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Digilent (http://www.digilent.us) makes good development kits.
They tend to be pretty inexpensive and a good value.
If you have the cash their XUP board has a good FPGA chip and a lot of great peripherals.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693949</id>
	<title>Tips from someone who's done this before</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247598480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Xilinx starter kits are cheap. If you want something with a few more peripherals, the Altera DE2 or DE2-70 kits have more extras than you can shake a stick at.</p><p>Both Altera and Xilinx offer free versions of their tools.</p><p>VHDL or Verilog doesn't matter, pick one and learn the basics.</p><p>You should expect to have to know something about interfacing digital hardware to get anywhere. Having an oscilloscope or logic analyzer handy will save you time debugging when you try to interface to external chips.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Xilinx starter kits are cheap .
If you want something with a few more peripherals , the Altera DE2 or DE2-70 kits have more extras than you can shake a stick at.Both Altera and Xilinx offer free versions of their tools.VHDL or Verilog does n't matter , pick one and learn the basics.You should expect to have to know something about interfacing digital hardware to get anywhere .
Having an oscilloscope or logic analyzer handy will save you time debugging when you try to interface to external chips .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Xilinx starter kits are cheap.
If you want something with a few more peripherals, the Altera DE2 or DE2-70 kits have more extras than you can shake a stick at.Both Altera and Xilinx offer free versions of their tools.VHDL or Verilog doesn't matter, pick one and learn the basics.You should expect to have to know something about interfacing digital hardware to get anywhere.
Having an oscilloscope or logic analyzer handy will save you time debugging when you try to interface to external chips.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693911</id>
	<title>NetFPGA?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247598300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>has anyone experience with NetFPGA?

<a href="http://netfpga.org/" title="netfpga.org" rel="nofollow">http://netfpga.org/</a> [netfpga.org]

The NetFPGA is:

a line-rate, flexible, and open platform for research, and classroom experimentation. About 1,000 NetFPGA systems have been deployed at over 120 institutions in over 15 countries around the world.
As detailed in the specifications, the NetFPGA is a PCI card that contains a large Xilinx FPGA, 4 Gigabit Ethernet ports, Static RAM (SRAM), Double-Date Rate (DDR2) Dynamic RAM (DRAM). The card design is open-source and the hardware is made available at very lost through donations of gifts and Silicon chips by sponsors of the NetFPGA project.

The NetFPGA enables researchers and students to build working prototypes of high-speed, hardware-accelerated networking systems. The NetFPGA has been used in the teachers in the classroom to hgelp students learn how to build Gigabit Ethernet (GigE) switches and Internet Protocol (IP) routers. It has also been used by researchers to prototype new modules that use hardware rather than software to forward packets.</htmltext>
<tokenext>has anyone experience with NetFPGA ?
http : //netfpga.org/ [ netfpga.org ] The NetFPGA is : a line-rate , flexible , and open platform for research , and classroom experimentation .
About 1,000 NetFPGA systems have been deployed at over 120 institutions in over 15 countries around the world .
As detailed in the specifications , the NetFPGA is a PCI card that contains a large Xilinx FPGA , 4 Gigabit Ethernet ports , Static RAM ( SRAM ) , Double-Date Rate ( DDR2 ) Dynamic RAM ( DRAM ) .
The card design is open-source and the hardware is made available at very lost through donations of gifts and Silicon chips by sponsors of the NetFPGA project .
The NetFPGA enables researchers and students to build working prototypes of high-speed , hardware-accelerated networking systems .
The NetFPGA has been used in the teachers in the classroom to hgelp students learn how to build Gigabit Ethernet ( GigE ) switches and Internet Protocol ( IP ) routers .
It has also been used by researchers to prototype new modules that use hardware rather than software to forward packets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>has anyone experience with NetFPGA?
http://netfpga.org/ [netfpga.org]

The NetFPGA is:

a line-rate, flexible, and open platform for research, and classroom experimentation.
About 1,000 NetFPGA systems have been deployed at over 120 institutions in over 15 countries around the world.
As detailed in the specifications, the NetFPGA is a PCI card that contains a large Xilinx FPGA, 4 Gigabit Ethernet ports, Static RAM (SRAM), Double-Date Rate (DDR2) Dynamic RAM (DRAM).
The card design is open-source and the hardware is made available at very lost through donations of gifts and Silicon chips by sponsors of the NetFPGA project.
The NetFPGA enables researchers and students to build working prototypes of high-speed, hardware-accelerated networking systems.
The NetFPGA has been used in the teachers in the classroom to hgelp students learn how to build Gigabit Ethernet (GigE) switches and Internet Protocol (IP) routers.
It has also been used by researchers to prototype new modules that use hardware rather than software to forward packets.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694561</id>
	<title>Re:Xilinx</title>
	<author>customizedmischief</author>
	<datestamp>1247601240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Otherwise, check fpga4fun.com . They use a tiny FPGA board, which reminds me of the Arduino: it has everything you need and nothing more.</p> </div><p>I have been playing with the Pluto board from fpga4fun.  This is great for little proof of concept projects.  It is too limited for big projects, but as a hobbyist, I have found that there is a lot of room to play and learn on the cheapest one before I need an upgrade.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Otherwise , check fpga4fun.com .
They use a tiny FPGA board , which reminds me of the Arduino : it has everything you need and nothing more .
I have been playing with the Pluto board from fpga4fun .
This is great for little proof of concept projects .
It is too limited for big projects , but as a hobbyist , I have found that there is a lot of room to play and learn on the cheapest one before I need an upgrade .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Otherwise, check fpga4fun.com .
They use a tiny FPGA board, which reminds me of the Arduino: it has everything you need and nothing more.
I have been playing with the Pluto board from fpga4fun.
This is great for little proof of concept projects.
It is too limited for big projects, but as a hobbyist, I have found that there is a lot of room to play and learn on the cheapest one before I need an upgrade.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692883</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28705789</id>
	<title>Have a project in mind</title>
	<author>j1m+5n0w</author>
	<datestamp>1247683620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My advice for learning fpga programming is the same for learning a regular programming language: it's a lot easier to stay motivated if you're not just learning for learning's sake, but have some particular project in mind.  This is where I got stuck; I read a big thick book on verilog and got myself a development board and all the software set up, and I figured out how to make the LEDs blink faster or slower, but then I got distracted and never actually went on to do anything more complicated.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My advice for learning fpga programming is the same for learning a regular programming language : it 's a lot easier to stay motivated if you 're not just learning for learning 's sake , but have some particular project in mind .
This is where I got stuck ; I read a big thick book on verilog and got myself a development board and all the software set up , and I figured out how to make the LEDs blink faster or slower , but then I got distracted and never actually went on to do anything more complicated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My advice for learning fpga programming is the same for learning a regular programming language: it's a lot easier to stay motivated if you're not just learning for learning's sake, but have some particular project in mind.
This is where I got stuck; I read a big thick book on verilog and got myself a development board and all the software set up, and I figured out how to make the LEDs blink faster or slower, but then I got distracted and never actually went on to do anything more complicated.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28705027</id>
	<title>Get involved with a new FPGA Open Source community</title>
	<author>jack.gassett</author>
	<datestamp>1247680860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Having fairly recently gone through the same process the steps I took are still fresh in my mind. I would recommend doing the following:
<br>
<br>

-Get a good understanding of digital electronics, you need to understand the building blocks that HDL languages such as Verilog and VHDL describe. Learn about flip flops, latches, counters, shift registers, and memories. With HDL you are describing how these basic building blocks connect rather than the sequential programming you may be used to. So go to Amazon and buy several used books on "Digital Electronics" or "Digital Fundamentals". You will be using these concepts to solve problems with HDL so it is important. Think of it as the equivalent of a "Data Structures and Algorithms" book for programming.
<br> <br>
-Once you have a basic understanding of Digital Electronics then it is time to start learning an HDL. One of the biggest trip ups that I ran into while learning VHDL was the distinction between VHDL for simulation and VHDL for RTL synthesis. I was finding VHDL examples and tutorials on the web that did not explain the difference. There are many VHDL examples on the web that are only valid for simulation but do not work for RTL synthesis. So I ended up writing VHDL code that worked great in simulation but would blow up when I tried to synthesize it to run on a board. I wasted many, many hours before I found a book that clearly explained the difference. So get a book that focuses on RTL synthesis to avoid confusion in the beginning. The book that I found very helpful was <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Vhdl-Synthesis-Done-Right/dp/0966959000/ref=sr\_1\_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1247674944&amp;sr=1-1" title="amazon.com" rel="nofollow">Essential VHDL RTL Synthesis Done Right</a> [amazon.com] by Sundar Rajan. This book truly was the key, for me, to being successful with VHDL.  (Search around for a better price, I did not pay over $100 for the book)
<br> <br>

-Another great book that isn't necessarily important for HDL learning but has many easy to understand electronics solutions is <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Electronics-Inventors-Paul-Scherz/dp/0071452818/ref=sr\_1\_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1247673726&amp;sr=8-1" title="amazon.com" rel="nofollow">Practical Electronics for Inventors</a> [amazon.com]  by Paul Scherz.
<br> <br>

Finally, get involved with open source FPGA projects, there is nothing like studying the code of working projects. Head over to <a href="http://www.gadgetgactory.net/" title="gadgetgactory.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.gadgetgactory.net/</a> [gadgetgactory.net] which is a new FPGA Open Source community trying to make FPGA's more useful and accessible. You will find:<br>
-A completely open source FPGA circuit design, the Butterfly Platform, that you can build yourself or purchase pre-assembled and tested. This board can fulfill your development needs and has the advantage of being actively developed for. Most dev boards on the market have examples that you can work through but once you get through all of them you are on your own. The goal of the Butterfly Platform is to find the best FPGA open source projects available and get them all running on this board.<br>
-An open source Logic Analyzer design that is both useful for your electronics workbench but is also an amazing example to help with learning VHDL.<br>
-An AVR compatible processor that supports the avr-gcc toolchain for C development. (Still a work in progress)<br>
-Tutorials and Screencasts for basic FPGA tasks.<br>
<br>
Take a look around and see if there is anything helpful. The site is in heavy development right now so keep checking back for more projects, tutorials, and FPGA wiki's.
<br> <br>
Jack.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Having fairly recently gone through the same process the steps I took are still fresh in my mind .
I would recommend doing the following : -Get a good understanding of digital electronics , you need to understand the building blocks that HDL languages such as Verilog and VHDL describe .
Learn about flip flops , latches , counters , shift registers , and memories .
With HDL you are describing how these basic building blocks connect rather than the sequential programming you may be used to .
So go to Amazon and buy several used books on " Digital Electronics " or " Digital Fundamentals " .
You will be using these concepts to solve problems with HDL so it is important .
Think of it as the equivalent of a " Data Structures and Algorithms " book for programming .
-Once you have a basic understanding of Digital Electronics then it is time to start learning an HDL .
One of the biggest trip ups that I ran into while learning VHDL was the distinction between VHDL for simulation and VHDL for RTL synthesis .
I was finding VHDL examples and tutorials on the web that did not explain the difference .
There are many VHDL examples on the web that are only valid for simulation but do not work for RTL synthesis .
So I ended up writing VHDL code that worked great in simulation but would blow up when I tried to synthesize it to run on a board .
I wasted many , many hours before I found a book that clearly explained the difference .
So get a book that focuses on RTL synthesis to avoid confusion in the beginning .
The book that I found very helpful was Essential VHDL RTL Synthesis Done Right [ amazon.com ] by Sundar Rajan .
This book truly was the key , for me , to being successful with VHDL .
( Search around for a better price , I did not pay over $ 100 for the book ) -Another great book that is n't necessarily important for HDL learning but has many easy to understand electronics solutions is Practical Electronics for Inventors [ amazon.com ] by Paul Scherz .
Finally , get involved with open source FPGA projects , there is nothing like studying the code of working projects .
Head over to http : //www.gadgetgactory.net/ [ gadgetgactory.net ] which is a new FPGA Open Source community trying to make FPGA 's more useful and accessible .
You will find : -A completely open source FPGA circuit design , the Butterfly Platform , that you can build yourself or purchase pre-assembled and tested .
This board can fulfill your development needs and has the advantage of being actively developed for .
Most dev boards on the market have examples that you can work through but once you get through all of them you are on your own .
The goal of the Butterfly Platform is to find the best FPGA open source projects available and get them all running on this board .
-An open source Logic Analyzer design that is both useful for your electronics workbench but is also an amazing example to help with learning VHDL .
-An AVR compatible processor that supports the avr-gcc toolchain for C development .
( Still a work in progress ) -Tutorials and Screencasts for basic FPGA tasks .
Take a look around and see if there is anything helpful .
The site is in heavy development right now so keep checking back for more projects , tutorials , and FPGA wiki 's .
Jack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having fairly recently gone through the same process the steps I took are still fresh in my mind.
I would recommend doing the following:



-Get a good understanding of digital electronics, you need to understand the building blocks that HDL languages such as Verilog and VHDL describe.
Learn about flip flops, latches, counters, shift registers, and memories.
With HDL you are describing how these basic building blocks connect rather than the sequential programming you may be used to.
So go to Amazon and buy several used books on "Digital Electronics" or "Digital Fundamentals".
You will be using these concepts to solve problems with HDL so it is important.
Think of it as the equivalent of a "Data Structures and Algorithms" book for programming.
-Once you have a basic understanding of Digital Electronics then it is time to start learning an HDL.
One of the biggest trip ups that I ran into while learning VHDL was the distinction between VHDL for simulation and VHDL for RTL synthesis.
I was finding VHDL examples and tutorials on the web that did not explain the difference.
There are many VHDL examples on the web that are only valid for simulation but do not work for RTL synthesis.
So I ended up writing VHDL code that worked great in simulation but would blow up when I tried to synthesize it to run on a board.
I wasted many, many hours before I found a book that clearly explained the difference.
So get a book that focuses on RTL synthesis to avoid confusion in the beginning.
The book that I found very helpful was Essential VHDL RTL Synthesis Done Right [amazon.com] by Sundar Rajan.
This book truly was the key, for me, to being successful with VHDL.
(Search around for a better price, I did not pay over $100 for the book)
 

-Another great book that isn't necessarily important for HDL learning but has many easy to understand electronics solutions is Practical Electronics for Inventors [amazon.com]  by Paul Scherz.
Finally, get involved with open source FPGA projects, there is nothing like studying the code of working projects.
Head over to http://www.gadgetgactory.net/ [gadgetgactory.net] which is a new FPGA Open Source community trying to make FPGA's more useful and accessible.
You will find:
-A completely open source FPGA circuit design, the Butterfly Platform, that you can build yourself or purchase pre-assembled and tested.
This board can fulfill your development needs and has the advantage of being actively developed for.
Most dev boards on the market have examples that you can work through but once you get through all of them you are on your own.
The goal of the Butterfly Platform is to find the best FPGA open source projects available and get them all running on this board.
-An open source Logic Analyzer design that is both useful for your electronics workbench but is also an amazing example to help with learning VHDL.
-An AVR compatible processor that supports the avr-gcc toolchain for C development.
(Still a work in progress)
-Tutorials and Screencasts for basic FPGA tasks.
Take a look around and see if there is anything helpful.
The site is in heavy development right now so keep checking back for more projects, tutorials, and FPGA wiki's.
Jack.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28695809</id>
	<title>A Nice Verilog Online Class</title>
	<author>frohro</author>
	<datestamp>1247564040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Kirk Weedman, KD7IRS, has posted some good Verilog classes on <a href="http://verilog.openhpsdr.org/" title="openhpsdr.org" rel="nofollow">http://verilog.openhpsdr.org/</a> [openhpsdr.org] that are tailored to amateur radio enthusiasts that have been working on the High Performance Software Defined Radio (HPSDR) an interesting open source hardware project.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Kirk Weedman , KD7IRS , has posted some good Verilog classes on http : //verilog.openhpsdr.org/ [ openhpsdr.org ] that are tailored to amateur radio enthusiasts that have been working on the High Performance Software Defined Radio ( HPSDR ) an interesting open source hardware project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kirk Weedman, KD7IRS, has posted some good Verilog classes on http://verilog.openhpsdr.org/ [openhpsdr.org] that are tailored to amateur radio enthusiasts that have been working on the High Performance Software Defined Radio (HPSDR) an interesting open source hardware project.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694501</id>
	<title>OKAD</title>
	<author>samjam</author>
	<datestamp>1247601000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Use OKAD, it's commercial quality and will fit on a floppy disk.</p><p>Seriously: <a href="http://www.colorforth.com/vlsi.html" title="colorforth.com">http://www.colorforth.com/vlsi.html</a> [colorforth.com]</p><p>Don't let the old-school lack of whizz-bang on the website fool you, this real stuff</p><p><a href="http://www.ultratechnology.com/color4th.html" title="ultratechnology.com">http://www.ultratechnology.com/color4th.html</a> [ultratechnology.com]</p><p>You're probably not smart enough for it.</p><p><a href="http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?ColorForth" title="c2.com">http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?ColorForth</a> [c2.com]</p><p>I'm not. I can't even find a download link or a sales page.</p><p><a href="http://modest-proposals.com/colorForth.htm" title="modest-proposals.com">http://modest-proposals.com/colorForth.htm</a> [modest-proposals.com]</p><p>Sam</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Use OKAD , it 's commercial quality and will fit on a floppy disk.Seriously : http : //www.colorforth.com/vlsi.html [ colorforth.com ] Do n't let the old-school lack of whizz-bang on the website fool you , this real stuffhttp : //www.ultratechnology.com/color4th.html [ ultratechnology.com ] You 're probably not smart enough for it.http : //www.c2.com/cgi/wiki ? ColorForth [ c2.com ] I 'm not .
I ca n't even find a download link or a sales page.http : //modest-proposals.com/colorForth.htm [ modest-proposals.com ] Sam</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Use OKAD, it's commercial quality and will fit on a floppy disk.Seriously: http://www.colorforth.com/vlsi.html [colorforth.com]Don't let the old-school lack of whizz-bang on the website fool you, this real stuffhttp://www.ultratechnology.com/color4th.html [ultratechnology.com]You're probably not smart enough for it.http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?ColorForth [c2.com]I'm not.
I can't even find a download link or a sales page.http://modest-proposals.com/colorForth.htm [modest-proposals.com]Sam</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28697317</id>
	<title>Re:a solid programming background only hurts you</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247570700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is an important point.  The hardest thing for me to learn was how to think "in hardware."  FPGAs don't run procedurally in the sense that software does, they run things concurrently.  It's a tough nut to crack if you have a lot of experience programming software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is an important point .
The hardest thing for me to learn was how to think " in hardware .
" FPGAs do n't run procedurally in the sense that software does , they run things concurrently .
It 's a tough nut to crack if you have a lot of experience programming software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is an important point.
The hardest thing for me to learn was how to think "in hardware.
"  FPGAs don't run procedurally in the sense that software does, they run things concurrently.
It's a tough nut to crack if you have a lot of experience programming software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694607</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693803</id>
	<title>Re:Xilinx Spartan 3AN or Altera Cyclone III</title>
	<author>Compholio</author>
	<datestamp>1247597760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>...<br>
Both are very mainline FPGAs, both have full devkits, references designs, include the tools, linux support on Xilinx at least (not sure on Altera), and are both at your price point.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
You need a full license from Altera to use their Linux version, if you are at a University you can usually get this license for free.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>.. . Both are very mainline FPGAs , both have full devkits , references designs , include the tools , linux support on Xilinx at least ( not sure on Altera ) , and are both at your price point .
You need a full license from Altera to use their Linux version , if you are at a University you can usually get this license for free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...
Both are very mainline FPGAs, both have full devkits, references designs, include the tools, linux support on Xilinx at least (not sure on Altera), and are both at your price point.
You need a full license from Altera to use their Linux version, if you are at a University you can usually get this license for free.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692937</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28697093</id>
	<title>FPGA development tools for Linux</title>
	<author>yrock</author>
	<datestamp>1247569620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Altera, www.altera.com has a version of their FPGA development software for Linux -- Quartus II.  This tool allows FPGA development for many Altera eval boards, and is available for free via their website.  My personal preference is to develop in Verilog rather than VHDL.  The syntax is more familiar to someone who also develops firmware in C/C++.  Overall, though this is a personal preference. Each language has its opponents/proponents.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Altera , www.altera.com has a version of their FPGA development software for Linux -- Quartus II .
This tool allows FPGA development for many Altera eval boards , and is available for free via their website .
My personal preference is to develop in Verilog rather than VHDL .
The syntax is more familiar to someone who also develops firmware in C/C + + .
Overall , though this is a personal preference .
Each language has its opponents/proponents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Altera, www.altera.com has a version of their FPGA development software for Linux -- Quartus II.
This tool allows FPGA development for many Altera eval boards, and is available for free via their website.
My personal preference is to develop in Verilog rather than VHDL.
The syntax is more familiar to someone who also develops firmware in C/C++.
Overall, though this is a personal preference.
Each language has its opponents/proponents.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28707909</id>
	<title>Advice on choosing FPGA board, and videos</title>
	<author>ledblink88</author>
	<datestamp>1247650320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You are definitely right, it is best to get a low cost FPGA board to start learning. You will definitely find it fun and satisfying. Video 3 on this page is "FPGA boards and general advice on what to get" <a href="http://www.burched.com/freevideos.ag.php" title="burched.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.burched.com/freevideos.ag.php</a> [burched.com]
There are some other videos there that will help you with learning.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are definitely right , it is best to get a low cost FPGA board to start learning .
You will definitely find it fun and satisfying .
Video 3 on this page is " FPGA boards and general advice on what to get " http : //www.burched.com/freevideos.ag.php [ burched.com ] There are some other videos there that will help you with learning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are definitely right, it is best to get a low cost FPGA board to start learning.
You will definitely find it fun and satisfying.
Video 3 on this page is "FPGA boards and general advice on what to get" http://www.burched.com/freevideos.ag.php [burched.com]
There are some other videos there that will help you with learning.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28699309</id>
	<title>Re:Recommendations</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247585460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with everything except the book you recommend. While the Designer's Guide does seem to cover every aspect of VHDL, I don't think that's what he needs. For example, real numbers or wait statements might be good for behavioral modeling, but you can't synthesize that directly. Ashenden's book is definitive and I can appreciate it more now that I have an idea what I'm doing, but he dosen't focus on synthesis vs simulation. I taught myself VHDL and was pulling my hair out with Ashenden's book. RTL Hardware Design Using VHDL by Pong Chu focused on the RTL standard exclusively. That book set me straight pretty quickly. It also covers many generic logic design concepts. Pong Chu also wrote 2 'cookbooks' for the Spartan 3 series, one each for VHDL and Verilog. They are FPGA Prototyping by VHDL (or Verilog) Examples. I've read the VHDL version (I believe they are equivalent) and it has a whole section on peripherals (UART, PS2 keyboard/mouse and memory and vga controllers). Also another section on using the PicoBlaze soft microcontroller.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with everything except the book you recommend .
While the Designer 's Guide does seem to cover every aspect of VHDL , I do n't think that 's what he needs .
For example , real numbers or wait statements might be good for behavioral modeling , but you ca n't synthesize that directly .
Ashenden 's book is definitive and I can appreciate it more now that I have an idea what I 'm doing , but he dose n't focus on synthesis vs simulation .
I taught myself VHDL and was pulling my hair out with Ashenden 's book .
RTL Hardware Design Using VHDL by Pong Chu focused on the RTL standard exclusively .
That book set me straight pretty quickly .
It also covers many generic logic design concepts .
Pong Chu also wrote 2 'cookbooks ' for the Spartan 3 series , one each for VHDL and Verilog .
They are FPGA Prototyping by VHDL ( or Verilog ) Examples .
I 've read the VHDL version ( I believe they are equivalent ) and it has a whole section on peripherals ( UART , PS2 keyboard/mouse and memory and vga controllers ) .
Also another section on using the PicoBlaze soft microcontroller .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with everything except the book you recommend.
While the Designer's Guide does seem to cover every aspect of VHDL, I don't think that's what he needs.
For example, real numbers or wait statements might be good for behavioral modeling, but you can't synthesize that directly.
Ashenden's book is definitive and I can appreciate it more now that I have an idea what I'm doing, but he dosen't focus on synthesis vs simulation.
I taught myself VHDL and was pulling my hair out with Ashenden's book.
RTL Hardware Design Using VHDL by Pong Chu focused on the RTL standard exclusively.
That book set me straight pretty quickly.
It also covers many generic logic design concepts.
Pong Chu also wrote 2 'cookbooks' for the Spartan 3 series, one each for VHDL and Verilog.
They are FPGA Prototyping by VHDL (or Verilog) Examples.
I've read the VHDL version (I believe they are equivalent) and it has a whole section on peripherals (UART, PS2 keyboard/mouse and memory and vga controllers).
Also another section on using the PicoBlaze soft microcontroller.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694025</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693869</id>
	<title>Re:My Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247598120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Following up on above:</p><p>I'm not sure what the current conversion rate is, but this is the board that I use in an academic setting:<br>http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,453&amp;Prod=XUPV2P  ($299.99 USD for academic customers, so you may need to ask a prof to help you out with this).   The FPGA is roughly four or five years old now, but the next-generation Virtex-5 XUPV5 board will set you back $750.  There are plenty of resources for beginner-to-intermediate designs -- I've seen this board implement two MPEG-4 decoders running simultaneously.</p><p>To answer your question about being *nix-friendly -- I've used the Xilinx tools under CentOS/RHEL, Debian/Ubuntu and Solaris with no problems (admittedly, these were the commercial version of the tools but I'm told the WebPack is pretty decent as well).  Also, this particular FPGA has a PPC405 embedded into the FPGA fabric, and there are several linux flavors that have been ported to run on it -- so, you can actually run linux on the FPGA itself.  What's more linux-friendly than that?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>One thing you may wish to keep in mind -- I tell students that for many first-time designs, you should be spending ~90\% of your time parked behind the simulator tool, ~5\% checking that the synthesis/implementations tools built the circuit you were actually trying to describe, and the rest of the time validating your design on the actual hardware (I've even taken the evil step of withholding FPGA board from people until they can demonstrate their designs have a chance of working through simulation).  It's not the most fulfilling approach, but chances are your board will be idle for much of the day while you write or simulate HDL anyways.  I believe the Xilinx tools include a stripped-down version of the ModelSIM simulator tool that is useful for simulating smaller designs.</p><p>And I'm not touching the VHDL/Verilog issue with a 10-foot pole except to say:<br>- The language is a tool that you use to describe the hardware that you wish to build.  I personally avoid the 'features' that are available in one HDL but not the other so that I can easily switch between the two languages if I need to.<br>- Writing test-benches is much easier in Verilog from my experience<br>- Learn whatever your prospective employer uses!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p><p>Good luck!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Following up on above : I 'm not sure what the current conversion rate is , but this is the board that I use in an academic setting : http : //www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm ? NavPath = 2,400,453&amp;Prod = XUPV2P ( $ 299.99 USD for academic customers , so you may need to ask a prof to help you out with this ) .
The FPGA is roughly four or five years old now , but the next-generation Virtex-5 XUPV5 board will set you back $ 750 .
There are plenty of resources for beginner-to-intermediate designs -- I 've seen this board implement two MPEG-4 decoders running simultaneously.To answer your question about being * nix-friendly -- I 've used the Xilinx tools under CentOS/RHEL , Debian/Ubuntu and Solaris with no problems ( admittedly , these were the commercial version of the tools but I 'm told the WebPack is pretty decent as well ) .
Also , this particular FPGA has a PPC405 embedded into the FPGA fabric , and there are several linux flavors that have been ported to run on it -- so , you can actually run linux on the FPGA itself .
What 's more linux-friendly than that ?
: ) One thing you may wish to keep in mind -- I tell students that for many first-time designs , you should be spending ~ 90 \ % of your time parked behind the simulator tool , ~ 5 \ % checking that the synthesis/implementations tools built the circuit you were actually trying to describe , and the rest of the time validating your design on the actual hardware ( I 've even taken the evil step of withholding FPGA board from people until they can demonstrate their designs have a chance of working through simulation ) .
It 's not the most fulfilling approach , but chances are your board will be idle for much of the day while you write or simulate HDL anyways .
I believe the Xilinx tools include a stripped-down version of the ModelSIM simulator tool that is useful for simulating smaller designs.And I 'm not touching the VHDL/Verilog issue with a 10-foot pole except to say : - The language is a tool that you use to describe the hardware that you wish to build .
I personally avoid the 'features ' that are available in one HDL but not the other so that I can easily switch between the two languages if I need to.- Writing test-benches is much easier in Verilog from my experience- Learn whatever your prospective employer uses !
; ) Good luck !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Following up on above:I'm not sure what the current conversion rate is, but this is the board that I use in an academic setting:http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,453&amp;Prod=XUPV2P  ($299.99 USD for academic customers, so you may need to ask a prof to help you out with this).
The FPGA is roughly four or five years old now, but the next-generation Virtex-5 XUPV5 board will set you back $750.
There are plenty of resources for beginner-to-intermediate designs -- I've seen this board implement two MPEG-4 decoders running simultaneously.To answer your question about being *nix-friendly -- I've used the Xilinx tools under CentOS/RHEL, Debian/Ubuntu and Solaris with no problems (admittedly, these were the commercial version of the tools but I'm told the WebPack is pretty decent as well).
Also, this particular FPGA has a PPC405 embedded into the FPGA fabric, and there are several linux flavors that have been ported to run on it -- so, you can actually run linux on the FPGA itself.
What's more linux-friendly than that?
:)One thing you may wish to keep in mind -- I tell students that for many first-time designs, you should be spending ~90\% of your time parked behind the simulator tool, ~5\% checking that the synthesis/implementations tools built the circuit you were actually trying to describe, and the rest of the time validating your design on the actual hardware (I've even taken the evil step of withholding FPGA board from people until they can demonstrate their designs have a chance of working through simulation).
It's not the most fulfilling approach, but chances are your board will be idle for much of the day while you write or simulate HDL anyways.
I believe the Xilinx tools include a stripped-down version of the ModelSIM simulator tool that is useful for simulating smaller designs.And I'm not touching the VHDL/Verilog issue with a 10-foot pole except to say:- The language is a tool that you use to describe the hardware that you wish to build.
I personally avoid the 'features' that are available in one HDL but not the other so that I can easily switch between the two languages if I need to.- Writing test-benches is much easier in Verilog from my experience- Learn whatever your prospective employer uses!
;)Good luck!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692861</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692861</id>
	<title>My Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247594040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><b>Hardware</b>: I highly recommend the <a href="http://www.xilinx.com/products/devkits/HW-SPAR3-SK-UNI-G.htm" title="xilinx.com">Spartan Starter Kits</a> [xilinx.com]. They're dirt cheap, well supported by the industry, and come with a good toolkit. There's not much more you need to know other than you'll probably want a serial cable in addition to the JTAG cable the kit ships with.</p><p>I'll grant you that the fabric isn't very large by today's standards, but it's still enough space to learn about the hardware. By the time you outgrow the fabric, you should have a good idea of what size hardware you want. In fact, your next board may even be a custom design based on a bus like wishbone.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p><p><b>Software</b>: The Xilinx stuff (pronounced "Zy-Links") comes with a full toolkit for VHDL/Verilog development including an IDE, place and route tools, and software to reconfigure the FPGA. It's all quite slick and easy for a beginner to use.</p><p><b>Language</b>: The most common route taken by new hardware developers is to learn Verilog. They do this because it's similar to C and that makes them comfortable. <b>THIS IS A BAD IDEA</b>. I can't count how many hardware designers swear up a storm when they see a Verilog project with loops and other software constructs stuck into them. See, the comfort and familarity of C makes new hardware developers forget that the hardware is a fixed layout. There is no for loops or control logic as you think of it. It all ends up flattening to hardware. If you write regular software constructs, you'll end up with the least efficient circuit possible.</p><p>From this perspective, learning VHDL is better because you <i>won't</i> have that comfort and familiarity that might tempt you into creating poor circuits.</p><p>I actually recommend doing some <a href="http://www.jhdl.org/" title="jhdl.org">JHDL</a> [jhdl.org] code for a while. It's lower level than VHDL, but that's a good thing. You have to think about every wire connection and how it all links up. When you're done, you can easily step through your circuit and see how it plays out in hardware. Even better, you learn how to properly use software constructs like loops to create a large number of static hardware objects. This will make your code better without falling in the trap of trying to write software.</p><p>That's my 2 cents anyway. Good luck!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hardware : I highly recommend the Spartan Starter Kits [ xilinx.com ] .
They 're dirt cheap , well supported by the industry , and come with a good toolkit .
There 's not much more you need to know other than you 'll probably want a serial cable in addition to the JTAG cable the kit ships with.I 'll grant you that the fabric is n't very large by today 's standards , but it 's still enough space to learn about the hardware .
By the time you outgrow the fabric , you should have a good idea of what size hardware you want .
In fact , your next board may even be a custom design based on a bus like wishbone .
; - ) Software : The Xilinx stuff ( pronounced " Zy-Links " ) comes with a full toolkit for VHDL/Verilog development including an IDE , place and route tools , and software to reconfigure the FPGA .
It 's all quite slick and easy for a beginner to use.Language : The most common route taken by new hardware developers is to learn Verilog .
They do this because it 's similar to C and that makes them comfortable .
THIS IS A BAD IDEA .
I ca n't count how many hardware designers swear up a storm when they see a Verilog project with loops and other software constructs stuck into them .
See , the comfort and familarity of C makes new hardware developers forget that the hardware is a fixed layout .
There is no for loops or control logic as you think of it .
It all ends up flattening to hardware .
If you write regular software constructs , you 'll end up with the least efficient circuit possible.From this perspective , learning VHDL is better because you wo n't have that comfort and familiarity that might tempt you into creating poor circuits.I actually recommend doing some JHDL [ jhdl.org ] code for a while .
It 's lower level than VHDL , but that 's a good thing .
You have to think about every wire connection and how it all links up .
When you 're done , you can easily step through your circuit and see how it plays out in hardware .
Even better , you learn how to properly use software constructs like loops to create a large number of static hardware objects .
This will make your code better without falling in the trap of trying to write software.That 's my 2 cents anyway .
Good luck !
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hardware: I highly recommend the Spartan Starter Kits [xilinx.com].
They're dirt cheap, well supported by the industry, and come with a good toolkit.
There's not much more you need to know other than you'll probably want a serial cable in addition to the JTAG cable the kit ships with.I'll grant you that the fabric isn't very large by today's standards, but it's still enough space to learn about the hardware.
By the time you outgrow the fabric, you should have a good idea of what size hardware you want.
In fact, your next board may even be a custom design based on a bus like wishbone.
;-)Software: The Xilinx stuff (pronounced "Zy-Links") comes with a full toolkit for VHDL/Verilog development including an IDE, place and route tools, and software to reconfigure the FPGA.
It's all quite slick and easy for a beginner to use.Language: The most common route taken by new hardware developers is to learn Verilog.
They do this because it's similar to C and that makes them comfortable.
THIS IS A BAD IDEA.
I can't count how many hardware designers swear up a storm when they see a Verilog project with loops and other software constructs stuck into them.
See, the comfort and familarity of C makes new hardware developers forget that the hardware is a fixed layout.
There is no for loops or control logic as you think of it.
It all ends up flattening to hardware.
If you write regular software constructs, you'll end up with the least efficient circuit possible.From this perspective, learning VHDL is better because you won't have that comfort and familiarity that might tempt you into creating poor circuits.I actually recommend doing some JHDL [jhdl.org] code for a while.
It's lower level than VHDL, but that's a good thing.
You have to think about every wire connection and how it all links up.
When you're done, you can easily step through your circuit and see how it plays out in hardware.
Even better, you learn how to properly use software constructs like loops to create a large number of static hardware objects.
This will make your code better without falling in the trap of trying to write software.That's my 2 cents anyway.
Good luck!
:-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28695219</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>gwjgwj</author>
	<datestamp>1247604780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I would also add that VHDL/Verilog are *not* programming languages, in the sense that you are creating programs to compile and run on a system. They are Hardware Description Languages that you use to describe a functional piece of hardware. Thinking about HDL as a programming language will only get you crossed up, especially if you are new to the hardware design world.</p></div><p>
For hardware <i>implementation</i>, I agree. However, they are also simulation languages. In such a case, you compile them and execute on your PC, you can then print messages to the console and even open files.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would also add that VHDL/Verilog are * not * programming languages , in the sense that you are creating programs to compile and run on a system .
They are Hardware Description Languages that you use to describe a functional piece of hardware .
Thinking about HDL as a programming language will only get you crossed up , especially if you are new to the hardware design world .
For hardware implementation , I agree .
However , they are also simulation languages .
In such a case , you compile them and execute on your PC , you can then print messages to the console and even open files .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would also add that VHDL/Verilog are *not* programming languages, in the sense that you are creating programs to compile and run on a system.
They are Hardware Description Languages that you use to describe a functional piece of hardware.
Thinking about HDL as a programming language will only get you crossed up, especially if you are new to the hardware design world.
For hardware implementation, I agree.
However, they are also simulation languages.
In such a case, you compile them and execute on your PC, you can then print messages to the console and even open files.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693441</id>
	<title>Here you go</title>
	<author>NP-Incomplete</author>
	<datestamp>1247596260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>List of FPGA prototyping boards. Xilinx software is free for certain FPGAs.
<a href="http://www.fpga-faq.com/FPGA\_Boards.shtml" title="fpga-faq.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.fpga-faq.com/FPGA\_Boards.shtml</a> [fpga-faq.com]

For books, the only one I know of with an emphasis on synthesis results that includes both VHDL and Verilog is "HDL Chip Design" by Douglas J. Smith. I highly recommend Verilog over VHDL even though I learned VHDL first. Also Xilinx has obscene amounts of documentation on their website<a href="http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/" title="xilinx.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/</a> [xilinx.com]. Some of their whitepapers and app notes cover general logic design techniques.</htmltext>
<tokenext>List of FPGA prototyping boards .
Xilinx software is free for certain FPGAs .
http : //www.fpga-faq.com/FPGA \ _Boards.shtml [ fpga-faq.com ] For books , the only one I know of with an emphasis on synthesis results that includes both VHDL and Verilog is " HDL Chip Design " by Douglas J. Smith. I highly recommend Verilog over VHDL even though I learned VHDL first .
Also Xilinx has obscene amounts of documentation on their websitehttp : //www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/ [ xilinx.com ] .
Some of their whitepapers and app notes cover general logic design techniques .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>List of FPGA prototyping boards.
Xilinx software is free for certain FPGAs.
http://www.fpga-faq.com/FPGA\_Boards.shtml [fpga-faq.com]

For books, the only one I know of with an emphasis on synthesis results that includes both VHDL and Verilog is "HDL Chip Design" by Douglas J. Smith. I highly recommend Verilog over VHDL even though I learned VHDL first.
Also Xilinx has obscene amounts of documentation on their websitehttp://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/ [xilinx.com].
Some of their whitepapers and app notes cover general logic design techniques.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693137</id>
	<title>Build your own FPGA board :)</title>
	<author>hattig</author>
	<datestamp>1247595120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Build/Buy yourself a Minimig (with the ARM SD controller) or FPGAArcade.</p><p>At some point you'll want to do decent graphical output as you design your dream 8-bit computer, so these will make a decent base.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Build/Buy yourself a Minimig ( with the ARM SD controller ) or FPGAArcade.At some point you 'll want to do decent graphical output as you design your dream 8-bit computer , so these will make a decent base .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Build/Buy yourself a Minimig (with the ARM SD controller) or FPGAArcade.At some point you'll want to do decent graphical output as you design your dream 8-bit computer, so these will make a decent base.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693297</id>
	<title>Digilent, ISE, Verilog</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247595780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get a cheap FPGA board from Digilent (like the BASYS), the free ISE Webpack dev environment from Xilinx, and all the Verilog tutorials you can find on the web.</p><p>That's the way I did it anyway. You can get everything you need to learn for  $100</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get a cheap FPGA board from Digilent ( like the BASYS ) , the free ISE Webpack dev environment from Xilinx , and all the Verilog tutorials you can find on the web.That 's the way I did it anyway .
You can get everything you need to learn for $ 100</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get a cheap FPGA board from Digilent (like the BASYS), the free ISE Webpack dev environment from Xilinx, and all the Verilog tutorials you can find on the web.That's the way I did it anyway.
You can get everything you need to learn for  $100</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28700157</id>
	<title>Basic CPLD Tutorial for beginners</title>
	<author>elecrom</author>
	<datestamp>1247593140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you want to start learning FPGAs, then first logical step is to learn CPLD first. I have written small step by step tutorial for beginners :

<a href="http://elecrom.wordpress.com/2008/03/02/getting-started-with-xilinx-xc9536/" title="wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://elecrom.wordpress.com/2008/03/02/getting-started-with-xilinx-xc9536/</a> [wordpress.com]

Hope it helps.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to start learning FPGAs , then first logical step is to learn CPLD first .
I have written small step by step tutorial for beginners : http : //elecrom.wordpress.com/2008/03/02/getting-started-with-xilinx-xc9536/ [ wordpress.com ] Hope it helps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to start learning FPGAs, then first logical step is to learn CPLD first.
I have written small step by step tutorial for beginners :

http://elecrom.wordpress.com/2008/03/02/getting-started-with-xilinx-xc9536/ [wordpress.com]

Hope it helps.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694567</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247601300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>True - if you're manually simplifying every operation you're doing things wrong, but there is still great value in understanding what exactly the tools you are using are going to do. The lower the level of the system you're working with, the better your understanding of low level concepts must be in order to effectively utilize said system. I once met a student who outright refused to use the = operator in always blocks because he asserted that the tool would just recognize that he really just needed an =. I showed him how the design had been routed - it was an ugly mess with HUGE delays!</p><p>My suggestion for learning FPGA design would be to first gain a firm grasp of basic binary arithmetic. For free tools, check out the digital systems courses at MIT's courseware site - the recorded lectures and associated notes provide a more than adequate coverage of these fundamental concepts. Atanua is a pretty handy tool that lets you play with very basic logic circuits without worrying about wiring up a proto board (http://atanua.org/). Once you feel comfortable with that, Xilinx provides free tools for Mac, Win2K+, and linux that includes a nice IDE. Digilent was the manufacturer of the board I used in school (the Spartan 3E 500K gate model). I believe they have a UK distributor, and I know they do international shipping.</p><p>If you aim to use Verilog or VHDL for programming your FPGA, become familiar with how to build common pieces of logic such as gates, latches, and basic logic. Opencores has many more compilcated examples for everything from an LED controller to 8088 clones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True - if you 're manually simplifying every operation you 're doing things wrong , but there is still great value in understanding what exactly the tools you are using are going to do .
The lower the level of the system you 're working with , the better your understanding of low level concepts must be in order to effectively utilize said system .
I once met a student who outright refused to use the = operator in always blocks because he asserted that the tool would just recognize that he really just needed an = .
I showed him how the design had been routed - it was an ugly mess with HUGE delays ! My suggestion for learning FPGA design would be to first gain a firm grasp of basic binary arithmetic .
For free tools , check out the digital systems courses at MIT 's courseware site - the recorded lectures and associated notes provide a more than adequate coverage of these fundamental concepts .
Atanua is a pretty handy tool that lets you play with very basic logic circuits without worrying about wiring up a proto board ( http : //atanua.org/ ) .
Once you feel comfortable with that , Xilinx provides free tools for Mac , Win2K + , and linux that includes a nice IDE .
Digilent was the manufacturer of the board I used in school ( the Spartan 3E 500K gate model ) .
I believe they have a UK distributor , and I know they do international shipping.If you aim to use Verilog or VHDL for programming your FPGA , become familiar with how to build common pieces of logic such as gates , latches , and basic logic .
Opencores has many more compilcated examples for everything from an LED controller to 8088 clones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True - if you're manually simplifying every operation you're doing things wrong, but there is still great value in understanding what exactly the tools you are using are going to do.
The lower the level of the system you're working with, the better your understanding of low level concepts must be in order to effectively utilize said system.
I once met a student who outright refused to use the = operator in always blocks because he asserted that the tool would just recognize that he really just needed an =.
I showed him how the design had been routed - it was an ugly mess with HUGE delays!My suggestion for learning FPGA design would be to first gain a firm grasp of basic binary arithmetic.
For free tools, check out the digital systems courses at MIT's courseware site - the recorded lectures and associated notes provide a more than adequate coverage of these fundamental concepts.
Atanua is a pretty handy tool that lets you play with very basic logic circuits without worrying about wiring up a proto board (http://atanua.org/).
Once you feel comfortable with that, Xilinx provides free tools for Mac, Win2K+, and linux that includes a nice IDE.
Digilent was the manufacturer of the board I used in school (the Spartan 3E 500K gate model).
I believe they have a UK distributor, and I know they do international shipping.If you aim to use Verilog or VHDL for programming your FPGA, become familiar with how to build common pieces of logic such as gates, latches, and basic logic.
Opencores has many more compilcated examples for everything from an LED controller to 8088 clones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693159</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693029</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>gregoryb</author>
	<datestamp>1247594700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As far as development tools, they're overwhelmingly Windows based.</p></div><p>The majority of Xilinx' tools are available in Linux versions.  I actually really prefer the Linux versions as using them from command line is far easier under Linux than under Windows (provided you want to script your process instead of using the GUI, probably not as useful for someone just getting started).  Also, AFAIK, the larger Xilinx FPGAs require the *nix tools for a guaranteed Map/PAR due to memory limits, etc.  You can use the Win32 version, but once utilization gets high enough, the Win32 versions may not be able to completely PAR the design.</p><p>-gb</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as development tools , they 're overwhelmingly Windows based.The majority of Xilinx ' tools are available in Linux versions .
I actually really prefer the Linux versions as using them from command line is far easier under Linux than under Windows ( provided you want to script your process instead of using the GUI , probably not as useful for someone just getting started ) .
Also , AFAIK , the larger Xilinx FPGAs require the * nix tools for a guaranteed Map/PAR due to memory limits , etc .
You can use the Win32 version , but once utilization gets high enough , the Win32 versions may not be able to completely PAR the design.-gb</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as development tools, they're overwhelmingly Windows based.The majority of Xilinx' tools are available in Linux versions.
I actually really prefer the Linux versions as using them from command line is far easier under Linux than under Windows (provided you want to script your process instead of using the GUI, probably not as useful for someone just getting started).
Also, AFAIK, the larger Xilinx FPGAs require the *nix tools for a guaranteed Map/PAR due to memory limits, etc.
You can use the Win32 version, but once utilization gets high enough, the Win32 versions may not be able to completely PAR the design.-gb
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28698013</id>
	<title>Re:Recommendations</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247575140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'd have to run Altera's software in a VM, but you get SignalTap (by enabling TalkBack) if you prefer to debug in hardware instead of simulation. Xilinx' Chipscope is for-pay only (and less nice).</p><p>On the other hand, one tool that is nicer in ISE is FPGA Editor, which shows you everything. You can see \_exactly\_ how the tools have synthesized, mapped, placed and routed your design. Altera obscures most of the routing (aside from congestion). If you're into the nuts and bolts of FPGAs, you can spend a lot of time here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'd have to run Altera 's software in a VM , but you get SignalTap ( by enabling TalkBack ) if you prefer to debug in hardware instead of simulation .
Xilinx ' Chipscope is for-pay only ( and less nice ) .On the other hand , one tool that is nicer in ISE is FPGA Editor , which shows you everything .
You can see \ _exactly \ _ how the tools have synthesized , mapped , placed and routed your design .
Altera obscures most of the routing ( aside from congestion ) .
If you 're into the nuts and bolts of FPGAs , you can spend a lot of time here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'd have to run Altera's software in a VM, but you get SignalTap (by enabling TalkBack) if you prefer to debug in hardware instead of simulation.
Xilinx' Chipscope is for-pay only (and less nice).On the other hand, one tool that is nicer in ISE is FPGA Editor, which shows you everything.
You can see \_exactly\_ how the tools have synthesized, mapped, placed and routed your design.
Altera obscures most of the routing (aside from congestion).
If you're into the nuts and bolts of FPGAs, you can spend a lot of time here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694025</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693325</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247595900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would also add that VHDL/Verilog are *not* programming languages, in the sense that you are creating programs to compile and run on a system.  They are <i>Hardware Description Languages</i> that you use to describe a functional piece of hardware.  Thinking about HDL as a programming language will only get you crossed up, especially if you are new to the hardware design world.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would also add that VHDL/Verilog are * not * programming languages , in the sense that you are creating programs to compile and run on a system .
They are Hardware Description Languages that you use to describe a functional piece of hardware .
Thinking about HDL as a programming language will only get you crossed up , especially if you are new to the hardware design world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would also add that VHDL/Verilog are *not* programming languages, in the sense that you are creating programs to compile and run on a system.
They are Hardware Description Languages that you use to describe a functional piece of hardware.
Thinking about HDL as a programming language will only get you crossed up, especially if you are new to the hardware design world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</id>
	<title>advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247593920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unless you are very experienced designing with TTL chips, you won't get far in HDL without first getting good coverage of logic theory.  My experience may be a little dated as it was 10 years ago that I started learning programmable logic, but at the time I enjoyed the first edition of Fundamentals of Digital Logic with VHDL Design. Not that logic theory has changed, but newer books might come with better examples or easier to use software. What I liked about that book was that it covered the theory in a very complete way while introducing the vhdl concepts at a manageable pace.</p><p>As far as development tools, they're overwhelmingly Windows based. You may have to run a VM so that you can use the most common tools (eg Xilinx WebPACK) until you're up to speed, then try a linux solution later. There are lots of hardware trainers out there - it's really not that important which one you use initially, although if whatever books you're reading have a recommended one, use that.</p><p>Your experience in the software world will help you somewhat, but be prepared for a vastly steeper learning curve than picking up a new programming language. There are not a lot of engineers who go very deep on both the software and hardware/logic sides - if you do you will end up with some valuable skills indeed. good luck!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless you are very experienced designing with TTL chips , you wo n't get far in HDL without first getting good coverage of logic theory .
My experience may be a little dated as it was 10 years ago that I started learning programmable logic , but at the time I enjoyed the first edition of Fundamentals of Digital Logic with VHDL Design .
Not that logic theory has changed , but newer books might come with better examples or easier to use software .
What I liked about that book was that it covered the theory in a very complete way while introducing the vhdl concepts at a manageable pace.As far as development tools , they 're overwhelmingly Windows based .
You may have to run a VM so that you can use the most common tools ( eg Xilinx WebPACK ) until you 're up to speed , then try a linux solution later .
There are lots of hardware trainers out there - it 's really not that important which one you use initially , although if whatever books you 're reading have a recommended one , use that.Your experience in the software world will help you somewhat , but be prepared for a vastly steeper learning curve than picking up a new programming language .
There are not a lot of engineers who go very deep on both the software and hardware/logic sides - if you do you will end up with some valuable skills indeed .
good luck !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless you are very experienced designing with TTL chips, you won't get far in HDL without first getting good coverage of logic theory.
My experience may be a little dated as it was 10 years ago that I started learning programmable logic, but at the time I enjoyed the first edition of Fundamentals of Digital Logic with VHDL Design.
Not that logic theory has changed, but newer books might come with better examples or easier to use software.
What I liked about that book was that it covered the theory in a very complete way while introducing the vhdl concepts at a manageable pace.As far as development tools, they're overwhelmingly Windows based.
You may have to run a VM so that you can use the most common tools (eg Xilinx WebPACK) until you're up to speed, then try a linux solution later.
There are lots of hardware trainers out there - it's really not that important which one you use initially, although if whatever books you're reading have a recommended one, use that.Your experience in the software world will help you somewhat, but be prepared for a vastly steeper learning curve than picking up a new programming language.
There are not a lot of engineers who go very deep on both the software and hardware/logic sides - if you do you will end up with some valuable skills indeed.
good luck!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693955</id>
	<title>Check out Avalda's F# to FPGA compiler</title>
	<author>fpgasafari</author>
	<datestamp>1247598480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It will enable you to write real code for an FPGA using a subset of normal F# with some parallel programming semantics. You can download it <a href="http://www.avalda.com/" title="avalda.com" rel="nofollow">here</a> [avalda.com]. That is, you can write normal F# code and calculate some result as a regular F# program on your pc, then compile the code for the FPGA and see the same output on an FPGA. It's ideal for a software programmer like yourself who wants to get started with serious FPGA programming. There are many good books on verilog and VHDL. For VHDL one of the best is Peter Ashenden's "The Designer's Guide to VHDL". For verilog a good book is Vranesic and Brown's "Fundamentals of Digital Logic with Verilog Design" (they also have a similar book for VHDL).</p><p>
<a href="http://www.xess.com/" title="xess.com" rel="nofollow">Xess</a> [xess.com] has a good Xilinx-based started board and great tutorials. As other's have mentioned, <a href="http://www.digilentinc.com/" title="digilentinc.com" rel="nofollow">Digilent</a> [digilentinc.com] also has some good starter boards. The company was started by a couple of professors from Washington State University. A course that one of them teaches (Clint Cole) has some excellent tutorials on FPGAs. Make sure you get a board with a VGA interface and check out some of the classic arcade game projects implemented on an FPGA (eg, <a href="http://www.fpgaarcade.com/" title="fpgaarcade.com" rel="nofollow">fpgaarcade.com</a> [fpgaarcade.com]). Enjoy!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It will enable you to write real code for an FPGA using a subset of normal F # with some parallel programming semantics .
You can download it here [ avalda.com ] .
That is , you can write normal F # code and calculate some result as a regular F # program on your pc , then compile the code for the FPGA and see the same output on an FPGA .
It 's ideal for a software programmer like yourself who wants to get started with serious FPGA programming .
There are many good books on verilog and VHDL .
For VHDL one of the best is Peter Ashenden 's " The Designer 's Guide to VHDL " .
For verilog a good book is Vranesic and Brown 's " Fundamentals of Digital Logic with Verilog Design " ( they also have a similar book for VHDL ) .
Xess [ xess.com ] has a good Xilinx-based started board and great tutorials .
As other 's have mentioned , Digilent [ digilentinc.com ] also has some good starter boards .
The company was started by a couple of professors from Washington State University .
A course that one of them teaches ( Clint Cole ) has some excellent tutorials on FPGAs .
Make sure you get a board with a VGA interface and check out some of the classic arcade game projects implemented on an FPGA ( eg , fpgaarcade.com [ fpgaarcade.com ] ) .
Enjoy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It will enable you to write real code for an FPGA using a subset of normal F# with some parallel programming semantics.
You can download it here [avalda.com].
That is, you can write normal F# code and calculate some result as a regular F# program on your pc, then compile the code for the FPGA and see the same output on an FPGA.
It's ideal for a software programmer like yourself who wants to get started with serious FPGA programming.
There are many good books on verilog and VHDL.
For VHDL one of the best is Peter Ashenden's "The Designer's Guide to VHDL".
For verilog a good book is Vranesic and Brown's "Fundamentals of Digital Logic with Verilog Design" (they also have a similar book for VHDL).
Xess [xess.com] has a good Xilinx-based started board and great tutorials.
As other's have mentioned, Digilent [digilentinc.com] also has some good starter boards.
The company was started by a couple of professors from Washington State University.
A course that one of them teaches (Clint Cole) has some excellent tutorials on FPGAs.
Make sure you get a board with a VGA interface and check out some of the classic arcade game projects implemented on an FPGA (eg, fpgaarcade.com [fpgaarcade.com]).
Enjoy!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692847</id>
	<title>Digilent</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247593980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In our lab sessions we teach the students with boards of Digilent Inc. and we're very happy of them, we also have some in house dev. boards. (do I get my discount bonus know?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In our lab sessions we teach the students with boards of Digilent Inc. and we 're very happy of them , we also have some in house dev .
boards. ( do I get my discount bonus know ?
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In our lab sessions we teach the students with boards of Digilent Inc. and we're very happy of them, we also have some in house dev.
boards. (do I get my discount bonus know?
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694131</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247599260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you start VHDL you will feel like you are programming because you're using a highly syntaxed language in a text editor.</p><p>VHDL/Verilog is not a programming language! It's a hardware description language. I've seen so many people stumble on this point. You're not coding an algorithm, you're coding hardware to perform some algorithm.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you start VHDL you will feel like you are programming because you 're using a highly syntaxed language in a text editor.VHDL/Verilog is not a programming language !
It 's a hardware description language .
I 've seen so many people stumble on this point .
You 're not coding an algorithm , you 're coding hardware to perform some algorithm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you start VHDL you will feel like you are programming because you're using a highly syntaxed language in a text editor.VHDL/Verilog is not a programming language!
It's a hardware description language.
I've seen so many people stumble on this point.
You're not coding an algorithm, you're coding hardware to perform some algorithm.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693159</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692883</id>
	<title>Xilinx</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247594160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Use Xilinx's FPGA Starter Kit. I bought the old version 5 years ago, and it also came with a CPLD dev kit. The dev tools run on linux too. It was something like $99 IIRC. It's made by Digilent. Last time I checked they had a better board for an extra $50 with an LCD display and 64MB SDRAM.</p><p>Otherwise, check fpga4fun.com . They use a tiny FPGA board, which reminds me of the Arduino: it has everything you need and nothing more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Use Xilinx 's FPGA Starter Kit .
I bought the old version 5 years ago , and it also came with a CPLD dev kit .
The dev tools run on linux too .
It was something like $ 99 IIRC .
It 's made by Digilent .
Last time I checked they had a better board for an extra $ 50 with an LCD display and 64MB SDRAM.Otherwise , check fpga4fun.com .
They use a tiny FPGA board , which reminds me of the Arduino : it has everything you need and nothing more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Use Xilinx's FPGA Starter Kit.
I bought the old version 5 years ago, and it also came with a CPLD dev kit.
The dev tools run on linux too.
It was something like $99 IIRC.
It's made by Digilent.
Last time I checked they had a better board for an extra $50 with an LCD display and 64MB SDRAM.Otherwise, check fpga4fun.com .
They use a tiny FPGA board, which reminds me of the Arduino: it has everything you need and nothing more.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692905</id>
	<title>Cheap Xilinx development board</title>
	<author>Rythan</author>
	<datestamp>1247594280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd suggest Avnet Part # AES-SP3A-EVAL400-G, it's $49, and comes with everything you need for VHDL or Verilog...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd suggest Avnet Part # AES-SP3A-EVAL400-G , it 's $ 49 , and comes with everything you need for VHDL or Verilog.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd suggest Avnet Part # AES-SP3A-EVAL400-G, it's $49, and comes with everything you need for VHDL or Verilog...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693731</id>
	<title>Re:My Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247597460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Digilent makes some more nice boards, including what a number of universities use.</p><p>I've found (if I remember correctly) that comparable boards are actually cheaper (especially with academic licensing!).<br><a href="http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavPath=2,400&amp;Cat=10" title="digilentinc.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavPath=2,400&amp;Cat=10</a> [digilentinc.com]</p><p>or a particular board:<br><a href="http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,519&amp;Prod=S3BOARD" title="digilentinc.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,519&amp;Prod=S3BOARD</a> [digilentinc.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Digilent makes some more nice boards , including what a number of universities use.I 've found ( if I remember correctly ) that comparable boards are actually cheaper ( especially with academic licensing !
) .http : //www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm ? NavPath = 2,400&amp;Cat = 10 [ digilentinc.com ] or a particular board : http : //www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm ? NavPath = 2,400,519&amp;Prod = S3BOARD [ digilentinc.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Digilent makes some more nice boards, including what a number of universities use.I've found (if I remember correctly) that comparable boards are actually cheaper (especially with academic licensing!
).http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavPath=2,400&amp;Cat=10 [digilentinc.com]or a particular board:http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,519&amp;Prod=S3BOARD [digilentinc.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692861</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693159</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247595180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One caveat. I find that a lot of folks need to think at a higher logic level than is presented in most digital logic books. I see people constructing multiplexers and decoders and other basic logic structures in painstaking detail when they should be using simpler statements and letting the synthesis tool do the work.</p><p>If ever draw a Karnaugh map while coding VHDL, you're doing it wrong. If you are worrying about whether to use a Mealy or Moore state machine, you're doing it wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One caveat .
I find that a lot of folks need to think at a higher logic level than is presented in most digital logic books .
I see people constructing multiplexers and decoders and other basic logic structures in painstaking detail when they should be using simpler statements and letting the synthesis tool do the work.If ever draw a Karnaugh map while coding VHDL , you 're doing it wrong .
If you are worrying about whether to use a Mealy or Moore state machine , you 're doing it wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One caveat.
I find that a lot of folks need to think at a higher logic level than is presented in most digital logic books.
I see people constructing multiplexers and decoders and other basic logic structures in painstaking detail when they should be using simpler statements and letting the synthesis tool do the work.If ever draw a Karnaugh map while coding VHDL, you're doing it wrong.
If you are worrying about whether to use a Mealy or Moore state machine, you're doing it wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28695421</id>
	<title>OpenCPI, http://opencpi.org/</title>
	<author>JohnMoD</author>
	<datestamp>1247562420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>also something to check out, <a href="http://opencpi.org/" title="opencpi.org" rel="nofollow">http://opencpi.org/</a> [opencpi.org], it will be released and OSS in a few weeks
The Open Component Portability Infrastructure (OpenCPI) is a real-time embedded (RTE) middleware solution that simplifies programming of heterogeneous processing applications requiring a mix of field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA), general-purpose processors (GPP), digital signal processors (DSP), and high-speed switch fabrics. The &#226;oemix&#226; can be over a lifecycle (technology insertion) as well as within a single implementation (to meet SWAP constraints). CPI improves code portability, interoperability, and performance in FPGA and DSP-based environments by providing well-defined waveform component APIs (application programming interfaces) with a set of infrastructure blocks that act as a hardware abstraction layer (HAL). CPI is also appropriate for the incorporation of GPU and multicore technologies. CPI is uniquely positioned to meet the goals of S3 since in some sense component-based systems are computer-science&#226;(TM)s answer to dealing with &#226;oeknowledge capture&#226; and lock-up of intellectual property (IP). sign up here: <a href="http://lists.opencpi.org/listinfo.cgi/opencpi\_announce-opencpi.org" title="opencpi.org" rel="nofollow">http://lists.opencpi.org/listinfo.cgi/opencpi\_announce-opencpi.org</a> [opencpi.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>also something to check out , http : //opencpi.org/ [ opencpi.org ] , it will be released and OSS in a few weeks The Open Component Portability Infrastructure ( OpenCPI ) is a real-time embedded ( RTE ) middleware solution that simplifies programming of heterogeneous processing applications requiring a mix of field-programmable gate arrays ( FPGA ) , general-purpose processors ( GPP ) , digital signal processors ( DSP ) , and high-speed switch fabrics .
The   oemix   can be over a lifecycle ( technology insertion ) as well as within a single implementation ( to meet SWAP constraints ) .
CPI improves code portability , interoperability , and performance in FPGA and DSP-based environments by providing well-defined waveform component APIs ( application programming interfaces ) with a set of infrastructure blocks that act as a hardware abstraction layer ( HAL ) .
CPI is also appropriate for the incorporation of GPU and multicore technologies .
CPI is uniquely positioned to meet the goals of S3 since in some sense component-based systems are computer-science   ( TM ) s answer to dealing with   oeknowledge capture   and lock-up of intellectual property ( IP ) .
sign up here : http : //lists.opencpi.org/listinfo.cgi/opencpi \ _announce-opencpi.org [ opencpi.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>also something to check out, http://opencpi.org/ [opencpi.org], it will be released and OSS in a few weeks
The Open Component Portability Infrastructure (OpenCPI) is a real-time embedded (RTE) middleware solution that simplifies programming of heterogeneous processing applications requiring a mix of field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA), general-purpose processors (GPP), digital signal processors (DSP), and high-speed switch fabrics.
The âoemixâ can be over a lifecycle (technology insertion) as well as within a single implementation (to meet SWAP constraints).
CPI improves code portability, interoperability, and performance in FPGA and DSP-based environments by providing well-defined waveform component APIs (application programming interfaces) with a set of infrastructure blocks that act as a hardware abstraction layer (HAL).
CPI is also appropriate for the incorporation of GPU and multicore technologies.
CPI is uniquely positioned to meet the goals of S3 since in some sense component-based systems are computer-scienceâ(TM)s answer to dealing with âoeknowledge captureâ and lock-up of intellectual property (IP).
sign up here: http://lists.opencpi.org/listinfo.cgi/opencpi\_announce-opencpi.org [opencpi.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693281</id>
	<title>We are CS here</title>
	<author>Sybert42</author>
	<datestamp>1247595720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most people here are computer science--you may want to try a different board.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most people here are computer science--you may want to try a different board .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most people here are computer science--you may want to try a different board.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28700545</id>
	<title>What about Handel-C and SystemC?</title>
	<author>jpg5</author>
	<datestamp>1247597820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hi,

Regarding the development on the FPGA, I didn't see anyone suggesting Handel-C (proprietary from AgilityDS <a href="http://www.agilityds.com/" title="agilityds.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.agilityds.com/</a> [agilityds.com]), or SystemC (http://www.systemc.org/).

I have only used Handel-C to be honest, during a course of my MSc. Not to bad for beginners I think, I would suggest it. Although it lacks support for any platforms other than Windows...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hi , Regarding the development on the FPGA , I did n't see anyone suggesting Handel-C ( proprietary from AgilityDS http : //www.agilityds.com/ [ agilityds.com ] ) , or SystemC ( http : //www.systemc.org/ ) .
I have only used Handel-C to be honest , during a course of my MSc .
Not to bad for beginners I think , I would suggest it .
Although it lacks support for any platforms other than Windows.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hi,

Regarding the development on the FPGA, I didn't see anyone suggesting Handel-C (proprietary from AgilityDS http://www.agilityds.com/ [agilityds.com]), or SystemC (http://www.systemc.org/).
I have only used Handel-C to be honest, during a course of my MSc.
Not to bad for beginners I think, I would suggest it.
Although it lacks support for any platforms other than Windows...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28699695</id>
	<title>Re:Try these modules</title>
	<author>John Miles</author>
	<datestamp>1247588880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Opal Kelly modules are clean, well-documented designs, but because of their relatively high cost they're better thought of as embeddable modules rather than as learning platforms.  For education and basic home tinkering, you want a <i>cheap</i> well-documented board with lots of peripherals to play with.</p><p>I think the best overall learning platform right now is the <a href="http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=NEXYS2" title="digilentinc.com">Nexys2</a> [digilentinc.com].  You can teach yourself everything from USB interfacing to VHDL/Verilog design for $129, and it's got a lot of switches, lights, ports, and outboard RAM to play with.</p><p>There are also a couple of reasonably priced <a href="http://www.lbebooks.com/" title="lbebooks.com">books</a> [lbebooks.com] written especially for novices learning logic design with the Digilent platforms.  $200 will get you both the basic- and advanced-level books from LBE and a Nexys2 to do the exercises.  Very hard to beat that combination IMHO.  (You can use the Nexys2 with the first book, even though it was written for the lower-end Basys board.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Opal Kelly modules are clean , well-documented designs , but because of their relatively high cost they 're better thought of as embeddable modules rather than as learning platforms .
For education and basic home tinkering , you want a cheap well-documented board with lots of peripherals to play with.I think the best overall learning platform right now is the Nexys2 [ digilentinc.com ] .
You can teach yourself everything from USB interfacing to VHDL/Verilog design for $ 129 , and it 's got a lot of switches , lights , ports , and outboard RAM to play with.There are also a couple of reasonably priced books [ lbebooks.com ] written especially for novices learning logic design with the Digilent platforms .
$ 200 will get you both the basic- and advanced-level books from LBE and a Nexys2 to do the exercises .
Very hard to beat that combination IMHO .
( You can use the Nexys2 with the first book , even though it was written for the lower-end Basys board .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Opal Kelly modules are clean, well-documented designs, but because of their relatively high cost they're better thought of as embeddable modules rather than as learning platforms.
For education and basic home tinkering, you want a cheap well-documented board with lots of peripherals to play with.I think the best overall learning platform right now is the Nexys2 [digilentinc.com].
You can teach yourself everything from USB interfacing to VHDL/Verilog design for $129, and it's got a lot of switches, lights, ports, and outboard RAM to play with.There are also a couple of reasonably priced books [lbebooks.com] written especially for novices learning logic design with the Digilent platforms.
$200 will get you both the basic- and advanced-level books from LBE and a Nexys2 to do the exercises.
Very hard to beat that combination IMHO.
(You can use the Nexys2 with the first book, even though it was written for the lower-end Basys board.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693083</id>
	<title>Some tips on development</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247594940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On actual development: never assume any order of two things unless you enforce it. All things happen in a single clock cycle and you can't expect anything to wait for anything else. FPGA's internally work at a much higher rate to simulate at the rate you think you're running which implicitly means that you'll *have* to clock your operations - FPGA's don't do asynchronous (technically they're able but there's no tool that figures it out for you - and you won't want to manually route).</p><p>Oh, and good luck on interfacing with software. Software is *slow*.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On actual development : never assume any order of two things unless you enforce it .
All things happen in a single clock cycle and you ca n't expect anything to wait for anything else .
FPGA 's internally work at a much higher rate to simulate at the rate you think you 're running which implicitly means that you 'll * have * to clock your operations - FPGA 's do n't do asynchronous ( technically they 're able but there 's no tool that figures it out for you - and you wo n't want to manually route ) .Oh , and good luck on interfacing with software .
Software is * slow * .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On actual development: never assume any order of two things unless you enforce it.
All things happen in a single clock cycle and you can't expect anything to wait for anything else.
FPGA's internally work at a much higher rate to simulate at the rate you think you're running which implicitly means that you'll *have* to clock your operations - FPGA's don't do asynchronous (technically they're able but there's no tool that figures it out for you - and you won't want to manually route).Oh, and good luck on interfacing with software.
Software is *slow*.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28695423</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247562420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Answer(without screwing around)</p><p>Here is where you get the board</p><p>http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavPath=2,400&amp;Cat=10</p><p>Many universities use these boards. They are very common and work very well.</p><p>Xilinx webpack ise is free and works with windows and linux.</p><p>VHDL and Verilog both SUCK. There are no good language options anywhere for FPGAs yet. (There are many reasons behind this which are both technical and bureaucratic and go beyond the scope of this comment) Since the language suck and can't be formatted well don't worry about the code being 'clean and easy'...<br>I specialize in VHDL and here is some VHDL advice. The language is HUGE, but the only things you care about are case statements if statements and when/else statements. Some of what you write will be synchronous, some will not. If it is in an if block with the "risingedge" condition, its synchronous, otherwise it is not. Get an account on opencores and look at what people do there, and look at the examples that come with the board. Don't bother buying a book.</p><p>I would try and get a usb programmer instead of a parallel programmer if you are using linux. I understand usb programmers work much better.</p><p>If you are interested in a more complete solution for home embedded projects, I would recommend looked up the armadeus. http://www.armadeus.com/english/index.html<br>The armadeus is the best "all in one" embedded solution for almost any embedded project. Its cheap too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Answer ( without screwing around ) Here is where you get the boardhttp : //www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm ? NavPath = 2,400&amp;Cat = 10Many universities use these boards .
They are very common and work very well.Xilinx webpack ise is free and works with windows and linux.VHDL and Verilog both SUCK .
There are no good language options anywhere for FPGAs yet .
( There are many reasons behind this which are both technical and bureaucratic and go beyond the scope of this comment ) Since the language suck and ca n't be formatted well do n't worry about the code being 'clean and easy'...I specialize in VHDL and here is some VHDL advice .
The language is HUGE , but the only things you care about are case statements if statements and when/else statements .
Some of what you write will be synchronous , some will not .
If it is in an if block with the " risingedge " condition , its synchronous , otherwise it is not .
Get an account on opencores and look at what people do there , and look at the examples that come with the board .
Do n't bother buying a book.I would try and get a usb programmer instead of a parallel programmer if you are using linux .
I understand usb programmers work much better.If you are interested in a more complete solution for home embedded projects , I would recommend looked up the armadeus .
http : //www.armadeus.com/english/index.htmlThe armadeus is the best " all in one " embedded solution for almost any embedded project .
Its cheap too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Answer(without screwing around)Here is where you get the boardhttp://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavPath=2,400&amp;Cat=10Many universities use these boards.
They are very common and work very well.Xilinx webpack ise is free and works with windows and linux.VHDL and Verilog both SUCK.
There are no good language options anywhere for FPGAs yet.
(There are many reasons behind this which are both technical and bureaucratic and go beyond the scope of this comment) Since the language suck and can't be formatted well don't worry about the code being 'clean and easy'...I specialize in VHDL and here is some VHDL advice.
The language is HUGE, but the only things you care about are case statements if statements and when/else statements.
Some of what you write will be synchronous, some will not.
If it is in an if block with the "risingedge" condition, its synchronous, otherwise it is not.
Get an account on opencores and look at what people do there, and look at the examples that come with the board.
Don't bother buying a book.I would try and get a usb programmer instead of a parallel programmer if you are using linux.
I understand usb programmers work much better.If you are interested in a more complete solution for home embedded projects, I would recommend looked up the armadeus.
http://www.armadeus.com/english/index.htmlThe armadeus is the best "all in one" embedded solution for almost any embedded project.
Its cheap too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693623</id>
	<title>a few thoughts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247597040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Before you even bother buying a board, learn the simulator and learn the synthesizer.  Understand the difference between pre- and post-route simulations.  Look at the logic diffferent coding constructs give you.  Even though you'll be tempted to just synthesize and see if it runs, simulation is important.  You get complete control.  Write unit tests, make your testbench self checking, and you can run it after every change.  Writing models to simulate things you'll be hooking up to is tedious, but also important.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Before you even bother buying a board , learn the simulator and learn the synthesizer .
Understand the difference between pre- and post-route simulations .
Look at the logic diffferent coding constructs give you .
Even though you 'll be tempted to just synthesize and see if it runs , simulation is important .
You get complete control .
Write unit tests , make your testbench self checking , and you can run it after every change .
Writing models to simulate things you 'll be hooking up to is tedious , but also important .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before you even bother buying a board, learn the simulator and learn the synthesizer.
Understand the difference between pre- and post-route simulations.
Look at the logic diffferent coding constructs give you.
Even though you'll be tempted to just synthesize and see if it runs, simulation is important.
You get complete control.
Write unit tests, make your testbench self checking, and you can run it after every change.
Writing models to simulate things you'll be hooking up to is tedious, but also important.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693669</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Gerzel</author>
	<datestamp>1247597220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What does this have to do with learning how to compete in the Female Pro Golfer's Association?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What does this have to do with learning how to compete in the Female Pro Golfer 's Association ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What does this have to do with learning how to compete in the Female Pro Golfer's Association?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28699701</id>
	<title>Altera</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247588940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would suggest Altera.  The toolset is amazing compared to Xilinx.  Xilinx is notorious for horrible tools.  I even met a manager who works on the tools at Xilinx and he agreed: they suck.</p><p>You won't really notice a difference in FPGA performance unless you do something really fancy.  Get a cheap Altera board and use their IDE because Xilinx tools are very very very buggy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would suggest Altera .
The toolset is amazing compared to Xilinx .
Xilinx is notorious for horrible tools .
I even met a manager who works on the tools at Xilinx and he agreed : they suck.You wo n't really notice a difference in FPGA performance unless you do something really fancy .
Get a cheap Altera board and use their IDE because Xilinx tools are very very very buggy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would suggest Altera.
The toolset is amazing compared to Xilinx.
Xilinx is notorious for horrible tools.
I even met a manager who works on the tools at Xilinx and he agreed: they suck.You won't really notice a difference in FPGA performance unless you do something really fancy.
Get a cheap Altera board and use their IDE because Xilinx tools are very very very buggy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694051</id>
	<title>Altera Cyclone 2 Starter Kit / Terasic DE-1</title>
	<author>hpa</author>
	<datestamp>1247598840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is a little old, but the price is excellent... $150 for the general public, and $120 for students.  Even though there are cheaper boards on the market, I have found that the combination of features at a low price has been pretty unbeatable, and it is also available from a lot of distributors.</p><p>Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I have been focused heavily on retrocomputing projects... they're a lot of fun.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is a little old , but the price is excellent... $ 150 for the general public , and $ 120 for students .
Even though there are cheaper boards on the market , I have found that the combination of features at a low price has been pretty unbeatable , and it is also available from a lot of distributors.Now , in the interest of full disclosure , I have been focused heavily on retrocomputing projects... they 're a lot of fun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is a little old, but the price is excellent... $150 for the general public, and $120 for students.
Even though there are cheaper boards on the market, I have found that the combination of features at a low price has been pretty unbeatable, and it is also available from a lot of distributors.Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I have been focused heavily on retrocomputing projects... they're a lot of fun.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693331</id>
	<title>A suggestion for an excellent book</title>
	<author>blind biker</author>
	<datestamp>1247595900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, since most have already suggested the devkits of their choice (of which I have personally used at least a few), and which you could have come up with a Google search... I thought I'd rather advise on an excellent book (and which excellent cromulance you would not have been able to find with Google that easily): "VHDL Answers to Frequently Asked Questions" by Ben Cohen. Even though it has "FAQ" in the title, this books is actually an excellently structured textbook on VHDL. In fact, it's probably THE best book on VHDL for beginners and advanced beginners.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , since most have already suggested the devkits of their choice ( of which I have personally used at least a few ) , and which you could have come up with a Google search... I thought I 'd rather advise on an excellent book ( and which excellent cromulance you would not have been able to find with Google that easily ) : " VHDL Answers to Frequently Asked Questions " by Ben Cohen .
Even though it has " FAQ " in the title , this books is actually an excellently structured textbook on VHDL .
In fact , it 's probably THE best book on VHDL for beginners and advanced beginners .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, since most have already suggested the devkits of their choice (of which I have personally used at least a few), and which you could have come up with a Google search... I thought I'd rather advise on an excellent book (and which excellent cromulance you would not have been able to find with Google that easily): "VHDL Answers to Frequently Asked Questions" by Ben Cohen.
Even though it has "FAQ" in the title, this books is actually an excellently structured textbook on VHDL.
In fact, it's probably THE best book on VHDL for beginners and advanced beginners.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28698807</id>
	<title>Altium Designer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247581140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>You Could always try Altium designer ? www.altium.com it's windows based but covers a broad spectrum of FPGA (not a single brand) and covers the whole electronic design process. Also at the moment they are have some very cheap pricing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You Could always try Altium designer ?
www.altium.com it 's windows based but covers a broad spectrum of FPGA ( not a single brand ) and covers the whole electronic design process .
Also at the moment they are have some very cheap pricing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You Could always try Altium designer ?
www.altium.com it's windows based but covers a broad spectrum of FPGA (not a single brand) and covers the whole electronic design process.
Also at the moment they are have some very cheap pricing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693777</id>
	<title>Spartan-3 and Virtex5</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247597700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Spartan 3 is a good starter board. This was used in my VHDL class. A simple RISC processor was implemented on this board. The virtex5 board was used in my second Computer Design class. A 8-bit MIPS arch processor was implemented on this with all the normal features, ram, PC, interrupts, etc. The virtex5 board is not cheap however.</p><p>I second the suggestions to learn good digital design first. Learn and understand state machines as well as well.</p><p>Xilinx WebPack ISE is the software to use with these boards that I mentioned. Along with this, Modelsim Xilinx edition works good as well. Both of these tools are free and available from Xilinx.com</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Spartan 3 is a good starter board .
This was used in my VHDL class .
A simple RISC processor was implemented on this board .
The virtex5 board was used in my second Computer Design class .
A 8-bit MIPS arch processor was implemented on this with all the normal features , ram , PC , interrupts , etc .
The virtex5 board is not cheap however.I second the suggestions to learn good digital design first .
Learn and understand state machines as well as well.Xilinx WebPack ISE is the software to use with these boards that I mentioned .
Along with this , Modelsim Xilinx edition works good as well .
Both of these tools are free and available from Xilinx.com</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Spartan 3 is a good starter board.
This was used in my VHDL class.
A simple RISC processor was implemented on this board.
The virtex5 board was used in my second Computer Design class.
A 8-bit MIPS arch processor was implemented on this with all the normal features, ram, PC, interrupts, etc.
The virtex5 board is not cheap however.I second the suggestions to learn good digital design first.
Learn and understand state machines as well as well.Xilinx WebPack ISE is the software to use with these boards that I mentioned.
Along with this, Modelsim Xilinx edition works good as well.
Both of these tools are free and available from Xilinx.com</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692831</id>
	<title>Try these modules</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247593920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.opalkelly.com/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.opalkelly.com/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.opalkelly.com/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693987</id>
	<title>Buy this book</title>
	<author>teh\_commodore</author>
	<datestamp>1247598600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Fundamentals of Logic Design - Roth.  Designed for a self-paced course taught at the University of Texas at Austin, so actually geared toward your needs.

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Logic-Design-C-Roth/dp/0495073083/ref=sr\_1\_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1247594924&amp;sr=8-1" title="amazon.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Logic-Design-C-Roth/dp/0495073083/ref=sr\_1\_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1247594924&amp;sr=8-1</a> [amazon.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Fundamentals of Logic Design - Roth .
Designed for a self-paced course taught at the University of Texas at Austin , so actually geared toward your needs .
http : //www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Logic-Design-C-Roth/dp/0495073083/ref = sr \ _1 \ _1 ? ie = UTF8&amp;s = books&amp;qid = 1247594924&amp;sr = 8-1 [ amazon.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fundamentals of Logic Design - Roth.
Designed for a self-paced course taught at the University of Texas at Austin, so actually geared toward your needs.
http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Logic-Design-C-Roth/dp/0495073083/ref=sr\_1\_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1247594924&amp;sr=8-1 [amazon.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694777</id>
	<title>Extraordinarily useful resource</title>
	<author>svtdragon</author>
	<datestamp>1247602380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A former professor of mine, Dr. Ed Doering, set up this page here for our intro logic/FPGA course:  <a href="http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~doering/PLD\_Oasis/index.htm" title="rose-hulman.edu" rel="nofollow">PLD Oasis</a> [rose-hulman.edu].  The school it's hosted off of, my alma mater, is the school that produced one of the co-founders of Xilinx.  <br> <br>

In any case, Dr. Doering has lots of video tutorials about how to use Xilinx software, Spartan boards, Nexys boards, and all other manner of Progammable Logic Devices (PLDs), as well as some clever software resources.  He includes things about visual schematic design, which may be beneficial for being able to drop logic circuits onto FPGAs without Verilog as an intermediary, but it's also useful in that you can look at the intermediate Verilog files to get a handle on how Xilinx renders schematics to code.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A former professor of mine , Dr. Ed Doering , set up this page here for our intro logic/FPGA course : PLD Oasis [ rose-hulman.edu ] .
The school it 's hosted off of , my alma mater , is the school that produced one of the co-founders of Xilinx .
In any case , Dr. Doering has lots of video tutorials about how to use Xilinx software , Spartan boards , Nexys boards , and all other manner of Progammable Logic Devices ( PLDs ) , as well as some clever software resources .
He includes things about visual schematic design , which may be beneficial for being able to drop logic circuits onto FPGAs without Verilog as an intermediary , but it 's also useful in that you can look at the intermediate Verilog files to get a handle on how Xilinx renders schematics to code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A former professor of mine, Dr. Ed Doering, set up this page here for our intro logic/FPGA course:  PLD Oasis [rose-hulman.edu].
The school it's hosted off of, my alma mater, is the school that produced one of the co-founders of Xilinx.
In any case, Dr. Doering has lots of video tutorials about how to use Xilinx software, Spartan boards, Nexys boards, and all other manner of Progammable Logic Devices (PLDs), as well as some clever software resources.
He includes things about visual schematic design, which may be beneficial for being able to drop logic circuits onto FPGAs without Verilog as an intermediary, but it's also useful in that you can look at the intermediate Verilog files to get a handle on how Xilinx renders schematics to code.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28697613</id>
	<title>Re:What I did - and recommend</title>
	<author>pdbaby</author>
	<datestamp>1247572320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I broke my own teeth on this board</p></div><p>:-P Wow, that's pretty hardcore. I've never even broken a bone</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I broke my own teeth on this board : -P Wow , that 's pretty hardcore .
I 've never even broken a bone</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I broke my own teeth on this board:-P Wow, that's pretty hardcore.
I've never even broken a bone
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693049</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693367</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>donaggie03</author>
	<datestamp>1247596020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unless you are using VHDL as a tool to help you learn Karnaugh maps and state machines, as we did in college.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless you are using VHDL as a tool to help you learn Karnaugh maps and state machines , as we did in college .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless you are using VHDL as a tool to help you learn Karnaugh maps and state machines, as we did in college.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693159</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693865</id>
	<title>digilent board + Xilinx</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247598060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Get a board from <a href="http://www.digilentinc.com/" title="digilentinc.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.digilentinc.com/</a> [digilentinc.com] and use Xilinx WebPack software (Free as in beer)

They have a lot of onboard hardware such as RAM (usually SRAM), buttons/switches/LCDs, etc.

They cost about $60 USD to $2k</htmltext>
<tokenext>Get a board from http : //www.digilentinc.com/ [ digilentinc.com ] and use Xilinx WebPack software ( Free as in beer ) They have a lot of onboard hardware such as RAM ( usually SRAM ) , buttons/switches/LCDs , etc .
They cost about $ 60 USD to $ 2k</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get a board from http://www.digilentinc.com/ [digilentinc.com] and use Xilinx WebPack software (Free as in beer)

They have a lot of onboard hardware such as RAM (usually SRAM), buttons/switches/LCDs, etc.
They cost about $60 USD to $2k</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692985</id>
	<title>Virtex ML403</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247594580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a good kit, though slightly more expensive than your price point. It's also a full-up computer system. PowerPC processors can be embedded in the fabric and Xilinx has a large library of example code and projects. The development software may be very expensive - not sure, but their is a limited time evaluation version available.<p>Search on google to find the link to the product page.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a good kit , though slightly more expensive than your price point .
It 's also a full-up computer system .
PowerPC processors can be embedded in the fabric and Xilinx has a large library of example code and projects .
The development software may be very expensive - not sure , but their is a limited time evaluation version available.Search on google to find the link to the product page .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a good kit, though slightly more expensive than your price point.
It's also a full-up computer system.
PowerPC processors can be embedded in the fabric and Xilinx has a large library of example code and projects.
The development software may be very expensive - not sure, but their is a limited time evaluation version available.Search on google to find the link to the product page.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28695655</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247563380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>VHDL and Verilog *are* programming languages, which can be compiled and run (normally as simulations of digital logic circuits), albeit with different semantics to "conventional" programming languages. A limited subset of these languages can be used to describe synthesizable digital logic designs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>VHDL and Verilog * are * programming languages , which can be compiled and run ( normally as simulations of digital logic circuits ) , albeit with different semantics to " conventional " programming languages .
A limited subset of these languages can be used to describe synthesizable digital logic designs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>VHDL and Verilog *are* programming languages, which can be compiled and run (normally as simulations of digital logic circuits), albeit with different semantics to "conventional" programming languages.
A limited subset of these languages can be used to describe synthesizable digital logic designs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693743</id>
	<title>HDL Chip Design</title>
	<author>imgod2u</author>
	<datestamp>1247597520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As others have said, all the major FPGA vendors provide cheap starter kits and software to go along. They're a great way to start.</p><p>What is essential, though is to understand the concepts of digital design. It's out of print and still expensive (even used) but get yourself a copy of "HDL Chip Design" by Douglas Smith. It is still hands-down the best book on HDL chip design (with every example given in both VHDL and Verilog).</p><p>The important thing to realize is that the language isn't important. You have to start with visualizing the gates, bits and timing windows; then move on to figuring out how to describe those circuits in a language. The Smith book guides you through this learning process.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As others have said , all the major FPGA vendors provide cheap starter kits and software to go along .
They 're a great way to start.What is essential , though is to understand the concepts of digital design .
It 's out of print and still expensive ( even used ) but get yourself a copy of " HDL Chip Design " by Douglas Smith .
It is still hands-down the best book on HDL chip design ( with every example given in both VHDL and Verilog ) .The important thing to realize is that the language is n't important .
You have to start with visualizing the gates , bits and timing windows ; then move on to figuring out how to describe those circuits in a language .
The Smith book guides you through this learning process .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As others have said, all the major FPGA vendors provide cheap starter kits and software to go along.
They're a great way to start.What is essential, though is to understand the concepts of digital design.
It's out of print and still expensive (even used) but get yourself a copy of "HDL Chip Design" by Douglas Smith.
It is still hands-down the best book on HDL chip design (with every example given in both VHDL and Verilog).The important thing to realize is that the language isn't important.
You have to start with visualizing the gates, bits and timing windows; then move on to figuring out how to describe those circuits in a language.
The Smith book guides you through this learning process.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692961</id>
	<title>Digilent boards!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247594460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Digilent FPGA boards</p><p><a href="http://digilentinc.com/" title="digilentinc.com" rel="nofollow">http://digilentinc.com/</a> [digilentinc.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Digilent FPGA boardshttp : //digilentinc.com/ [ digilentinc.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Digilent FPGA boardshttp://digilentinc.com/ [digilentinc.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693147</id>
	<title>Re:My Advice</title>
	<author>SSpade</author>
	<datestamp>1247595120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Odd. I have much the same perspective as you, but with VHDL and Verilog reversed. I see Verilog as being slightly closer to hardware and VHDL as a little better matched to architectural modelling. I suspect it depends on the tools and workflow you get used to more than anything intrinsic to either language.</p><p>You can certainly make the "being a software developer" mistake in either language - I don't think that's a reason to choose one over the other, rather it's just something to be very aware of.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Odd .
I have much the same perspective as you , but with VHDL and Verilog reversed .
I see Verilog as being slightly closer to hardware and VHDL as a little better matched to architectural modelling .
I suspect it depends on the tools and workflow you get used to more than anything intrinsic to either language.You can certainly make the " being a software developer " mistake in either language - I do n't think that 's a reason to choose one over the other , rather it 's just something to be very aware of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Odd.
I have much the same perspective as you, but with VHDL and Verilog reversed.
I see Verilog as being slightly closer to hardware and VHDL as a little better matched to architectural modelling.
I suspect it depends on the tools and workflow you get used to more than anything intrinsic to either language.You can certainly make the "being a software developer" mistake in either language - I don't think that's a reason to choose one over the other, rather it's just something to be very aware of.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692861</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28695445</id>
	<title>Focus on HDL for SYNTHESIS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247562480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Both Verilog and VHDL can be used as either a modeling language, or for synthesis.  You need to learn synthesis.  There are some texts that treat the language from this view and I strongly recommend you find one.  Verilog is a little easier to learn.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Both Verilog and VHDL can be used as either a modeling language , or for synthesis .
You need to learn synthesis .
There are some texts that treat the language from this view and I strongly recommend you find one .
Verilog is a little easier to learn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Both Verilog and VHDL can be used as either a modeling language, or for synthesis.
You need to learn synthesis.
There are some texts that treat the language from this view and I strongly recommend you find one.
Verilog is a little easier to learn.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28704123</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247676420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's right, you have remember that everything always runs in parallel and you have to pound it into your head that you need special constructs to get things to happen sequentially.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's right , you have remember that everything always runs in parallel and you have to pound it into your head that you need special constructs to get things to happen sequentially .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's right, you have remember that everything always runs in parallel and you have to pound it into your head that you need special constructs to get things to happen sequentially.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693049</id>
	<title>What I did - and recommend</title>
	<author>TehBlahhh</author>
	<datestamp>1247594820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>1. Get a (the) Spartan-3 starter board. It's got the 500 variant of the Spartan-3 on it which is big enough to implement even small processors. The board also has some very limited VGA output, and a heap of other things that makes it fun to work with (Serial I/F, etc). The manual for this board is one of the better ones for beginners, as well. I broke my own teeth on this board. It's 149 US schmucks from digilent.
<br> <br>
2. Get Xilinx's free tool suite; its nicely compatible with that board. Free download from the web. Heck, you can even download and play with it without the / any board (but then you don't, of course, get the blinkenlights.) You can however try out and simulate designs before going to FPGA, and thus figure out why the (redacted) it doesn't (redacted) work. Simulations are your main way of verifying your design once you're past 20-odd gates.
<br> <br>
3. Learn the HDL of your choice. Read the books. One warning only: it is NOT a programming language - the entire model in your head about how software works needs to be replaced. Case statements are king. Productivity with HDL's are generally way lower than software; don't be surprised by this.
<br> <br>
4. Do points 1 through 3 in reverse order. Having a shiny 150 schmucker board won't help anything if you still have to spend two weeks grokking HDL's.
<br> <br>
HTH.</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Get a ( the ) Spartan-3 starter board .
It 's got the 500 variant of the Spartan-3 on it which is big enough to implement even small processors .
The board also has some very limited VGA output , and a heap of other things that makes it fun to work with ( Serial I/F , etc ) .
The manual for this board is one of the better ones for beginners , as well .
I broke my own teeth on this board .
It 's 149 US schmucks from digilent .
2. Get Xilinx 's free tool suite ; its nicely compatible with that board .
Free download from the web .
Heck , you can even download and play with it without the / any board ( but then you do n't , of course , get the blinkenlights .
) You can however try out and simulate designs before going to FPGA , and thus figure out why the ( redacted ) it does n't ( redacted ) work .
Simulations are your main way of verifying your design once you 're past 20-odd gates .
3. Learn the HDL of your choice .
Read the books .
One warning only : it is NOT a programming language - the entire model in your head about how software works needs to be replaced .
Case statements are king .
Productivity with HDL 's are generally way lower than software ; do n't be surprised by this .
4. Do points 1 through 3 in reverse order .
Having a shiny 150 schmucker board wo n't help anything if you still have to spend two weeks grokking HDL 's .
HTH .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Get a (the) Spartan-3 starter board.
It's got the 500 variant of the Spartan-3 on it which is big enough to implement even small processors.
The board also has some very limited VGA output, and a heap of other things that makes it fun to work with (Serial I/F, etc).
The manual for this board is one of the better ones for beginners, as well.
I broke my own teeth on this board.
It's 149 US schmucks from digilent.
2. Get Xilinx's free tool suite; its nicely compatible with that board.
Free download from the web.
Heck, you can even download and play with it without the / any board (but then you don't, of course, get the blinkenlights.
) You can however try out and simulate designs before going to FPGA, and thus figure out why the (redacted) it doesn't (redacted) work.
Simulations are your main way of verifying your design once you're past 20-odd gates.
3. Learn the HDL of your choice.
Read the books.
One warning only: it is NOT a programming language - the entire model in your head about how software works needs to be replaced.
Case statements are king.
Productivity with HDL's are generally way lower than software; don't be surprised by this.
4. Do points 1 through 3 in reverse order.
Having a shiny 150 schmucker board won't help anything if you still have to spend two weeks grokking HDL's.
HTH.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28695467</id>
	<title>Re:General rule</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247562600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I worked for an entire semester on the Altera DE2 which worked with both Verilog, and VHDL. We only used Verilog.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I worked for an entire semester on the Altera DE2 which worked with both Verilog , and VHDL .
We only used Verilog .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worked for an entire semester on the Altera DE2 which worked with both Verilog, and VHDL.
We only used Verilog.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693021</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693431</id>
	<title>Mai Advais</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247596260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>UNLES U R VRY EXPERIENCD DESIGNIN WIF TTL CHIPS, U WONT GIT FAR IN HDL WITHOUT FURST GETTIN GUD COVERAGE OV LOGIC THEORY. MAH EXPERIENCE CUD BE LIL DATD AS IT WUZ 10 YEERS AGO DAT I STARTD LERNIN PROGRAMMABLE LOGIC, BUT AT TEH TIEM I ENJOYD TEH FURST EDISHUN OV FUNDAMENTALS OV DIGITAL LOGIC WIF VHDL DESIGN. NOT DAT LOGIC THEORY HAS CHANGD, BUT NEWR BOOKZ MITE COME WIF BETTR EXAMPLEZ OR EASIR 2 USE SOFTWARE. WUT I LIKD BOUT DAT BOOK WUZ DAT IT COVERD TEH THEORY IN VRY COMPLETE WAI WHILE INTRODUCIN TEH VHDL CONCEPTS AT MANAGEABLE PACE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>UNLES U R VRY EXPERIENCD DESIGNIN WIF TTL CHIPS , U WONT GIT FAR IN HDL WITHOUT FURST GETTIN GUD COVERAGE OV LOGIC THEORY .
MAH EXPERIENCE CUD BE LIL DATD AS IT WUZ 10 YEERS AGO DAT I STARTD LERNIN PROGRAMMABLE LOGIC , BUT AT TEH TIEM I ENJOYD TEH FURST EDISHUN OV FUNDAMENTALS OV DIGITAL LOGIC WIF VHDL DESIGN .
NOT DAT LOGIC THEORY HAS CHANGD , BUT NEWR BOOKZ MITE COME WIF BETTR EXAMPLEZ OR EASIR 2 USE SOFTWARE .
WUT I LIKD BOUT DAT BOOK WUZ DAT IT COVERD TEH THEORY IN VRY COMPLETE WAI WHILE INTRODUCIN TEH VHDL CONCEPTS AT MANAGEABLE PACE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>UNLES U R VRY EXPERIENCD DESIGNIN WIF TTL CHIPS, U WONT GIT FAR IN HDL WITHOUT FURST GETTIN GUD COVERAGE OV LOGIC THEORY.
MAH EXPERIENCE CUD BE LIL DATD AS IT WUZ 10 YEERS AGO DAT I STARTD LERNIN PROGRAMMABLE LOGIC, BUT AT TEH TIEM I ENJOYD TEH FURST EDISHUN OV FUNDAMENTALS OV DIGITAL LOGIC WIF VHDL DESIGN.
NOT DAT LOGIC THEORY HAS CHANGD, BUT NEWR BOOKZ MITE COME WIF BETTR EXAMPLEZ OR EASIR 2 USE SOFTWARE.
WUT I LIKD BOUT DAT BOOK WUZ DAT IT COVERD TEH THEORY IN VRY COMPLETE WAI WHILE INTRODUCIN TEH VHDL CONCEPTS AT MANAGEABLE PACE.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693171</id>
	<title>Re:My Advice</title>
	<author>negro\_monolito</author>
	<datestamp>1247595240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Go here: <a href="http://www.digilentinc.com/" title="digilentinc.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.digilentinc.com</a> [digilentinc.com] </p><p>Buy the Nexy2 board for about $70. It has: 8-bit vga, 1 serial p., 8-seg disp., some flash mem., and a bunch of switches and leds. Uses Spartan3e chip, and comes with a nice case and USB programming cable. Programming software (adept) only works in Win., but you can get a linux programmer if needed. The Xilinx ISE or EDK stuff works in either windows or linux. Bonus: gvim works as an editor in ISE<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>
It basically comes with everything you need and should keep you occupied for several months; it's what we use at my university to introduce students to FPGAs in the lab. Feel free to contact me for more info.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Go here : http : //www.digilentinc.com [ digilentinc.com ] Buy the Nexy2 board for about $ 70 .
It has : 8-bit vga , 1 serial p. , 8-seg disp. , some flash mem. , and a bunch of switches and leds .
Uses Spartan3e chip , and comes with a nice case and USB programming cable .
Programming software ( adept ) only works in Win. , but you can get a linux programmer if needed .
The Xilinx ISE or EDK stuff works in either windows or linux .
Bonus : gvim works as an editor in ISE : ) It basically comes with everything you need and should keep you occupied for several months ; it 's what we use at my university to introduce students to FPGAs in the lab .
Feel free to contact me for more info .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Go here: http://www.digilentinc.com [digilentinc.com] Buy the Nexy2 board for about $70.
It has: 8-bit vga, 1 serial p., 8-seg disp., some flash mem., and a bunch of switches and leds.
Uses Spartan3e chip, and comes with a nice case and USB programming cable.
Programming software (adept) only works in Win., but you can get a linux programmer if needed.
The Xilinx ISE or EDK stuff works in either windows or linux.
Bonus: gvim works as an editor in ISE :)
It basically comes with everything you need and should keep you occupied for several months; it's what we use at my university to introduce students to FPGAs in the lab.
Feel free to contact me for more info.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692861</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693249</id>
	<title>Super-cheap? CPLD development kits</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247595600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A cheaper alternative that's well below your price point would be CPLDs (complex programmable logic devices).  Much less capable than an FPGA but also much cheaper.  Xilinx makes the CoolRunner line, Altera makes the MAX line, and I'm sure there are plenty of others.  There's a $63 Xilinx development kit available from digi-key:<br>http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&amp;name=122-1573-ND</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A cheaper alternative that 's well below your price point would be CPLDs ( complex programmable logic devices ) .
Much less capable than an FPGA but also much cheaper .
Xilinx makes the CoolRunner line , Altera makes the MAX line , and I 'm sure there are plenty of others .
There 's a $ 63 Xilinx development kit available from digi-key : http : //search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll ? Detail&amp;name = 122-1573-ND</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A cheaper alternative that's well below your price point would be CPLDs (complex programmable logic devices).
Much less capable than an FPGA but also much cheaper.
Xilinx makes the CoolRunner line, Altera makes the MAX line, and I'm sure there are plenty of others.
There's a $63 Xilinx development kit available from digi-key:http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&amp;name=122-1573-ND</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693399</id>
	<title>Get a Digilent board with a Xilinx FPGA</title>
	<author>jdb2</author>
	<datestamp>1247596140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would recommend a board made by <a href="http://www.digilentinc.com/" title="digilentinc.com">Digilent</a> [digilentinc.com] as they seem to have the greatest selection of add-ons and features plus their boards are high quality from my experience. As for the FPGA, I always recommend Xilinx because of the availability of free development tools, Linux support ( I currently have their WebPACK ISE running under Kubuntu 9.04 ) and the general superiority of their products, especially for projects that involve high speeds, a large number of gates and/or flip-flops eg. a microprocessor and even low power -- Xilinx' weakness has always been their relatively high standby/leakage current compared to other vendors, but they've significantly improved upon that with the Spartan-3A and the just released Spartan 6 chips.<br> <br>
As a Spartan 6 dev board is going to be expensive ( Xilinx' Spartan-6 FPGA SP601 Evaluation Kit is $295 and AFAIK it's the only entry level board currently available for that chip ) right now, I would recommend a Spartan 3A board. Specifically I would recommend Xilinx' <a href="http://www.xilinx.com/products/devkits/HW-SPAR3A-SK-UNI-G.htm" title="xilinx.com">Spartan-3A Starter Kit</a> [xilinx.com] as it has the right amount of features for the price ( $189 ) and it's made by Digilent although if you're on a *really* tight budget you can get kits based off of this chip <a href="http://www.xilinx.com/products/devkits/aes\_sp3a\_eval400\_avnet.htm" title="xilinx.com">for as low as $49</a> [xilinx.com] <br> <br>
jdb2</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would recommend a board made by Digilent [ digilentinc.com ] as they seem to have the greatest selection of add-ons and features plus their boards are high quality from my experience .
As for the FPGA , I always recommend Xilinx because of the availability of free development tools , Linux support ( I currently have their WebPACK ISE running under Kubuntu 9.04 ) and the general superiority of their products , especially for projects that involve high speeds , a large number of gates and/or flip-flops eg .
a microprocessor and even low power -- Xilinx ' weakness has always been their relatively high standby/leakage current compared to other vendors , but they 've significantly improved upon that with the Spartan-3A and the just released Spartan 6 chips .
As a Spartan 6 dev board is going to be expensive ( Xilinx ' Spartan-6 FPGA SP601 Evaluation Kit is $ 295 and AFAIK it 's the only entry level board currently available for that chip ) right now , I would recommend a Spartan 3A board .
Specifically I would recommend Xilinx ' Spartan-3A Starter Kit [ xilinx.com ] as it has the right amount of features for the price ( $ 189 ) and it 's made by Digilent although if you 're on a * really * tight budget you can get kits based off of this chip for as low as $ 49 [ xilinx.com ] jdb2</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would recommend a board made by Digilent [digilentinc.com] as they seem to have the greatest selection of add-ons and features plus their boards are high quality from my experience.
As for the FPGA, I always recommend Xilinx because of the availability of free development tools, Linux support ( I currently have their WebPACK ISE running under Kubuntu 9.04 ) and the general superiority of their products, especially for projects that involve high speeds, a large number of gates and/or flip-flops eg.
a microprocessor and even low power -- Xilinx' weakness has always been their relatively high standby/leakage current compared to other vendors, but they've significantly improved upon that with the Spartan-3A and the just released Spartan 6 chips.
As a Spartan 6 dev board is going to be expensive ( Xilinx' Spartan-6 FPGA SP601 Evaluation Kit is $295 and AFAIK it's the only entry level board currently available for that chip ) right now, I would recommend a Spartan 3A board.
Specifically I would recommend Xilinx' Spartan-3A Starter Kit [xilinx.com] as it has the right amount of features for the price ( $189 ) and it's made by Digilent although if you're on a *really* tight budget you can get kits based off of this chip for as low as $49 [xilinx.com]  
jdb2</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28695247</id>
	<title>Re:My Advice</title>
	<author>snaz555</author>
	<datestamp>1247604900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Xilinx software is licensed by subscription that has to be renewed annually.  Even WebPack.  It's also single seat, so you can't install it on both a desktop and laptop.  The license is tied either to the hard drive or PHY MAC.   Even though free, it's not clear whether they will grant you more than one 'free' license, and the shrinkwrap EULA isn't stated in advance.  For instance, even though highly implausible they would, there's no guarantee they can't extort payment from you at a later time, gratuitously cancel your license, or simply cease their 'free' WebPack program.  I personally chose to avoid Xilinx for my uses, in favor of Altera.  Not because I dislike Xilinx or anything, but simply because the last thing I wanted is more licensing complexity to deal with.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Xilinx software is licensed by subscription that has to be renewed annually .
Even WebPack .
It 's also single seat , so you ca n't install it on both a desktop and laptop .
The license is tied either to the hard drive or PHY MAC .
Even though free , it 's not clear whether they will grant you more than one 'free ' license , and the shrinkwrap EULA is n't stated in advance .
For instance , even though highly implausible they would , there 's no guarantee they ca n't extort payment from you at a later time , gratuitously cancel your license , or simply cease their 'free ' WebPack program .
I personally chose to avoid Xilinx for my uses , in favor of Altera .
Not because I dislike Xilinx or anything , but simply because the last thing I wanted is more licensing complexity to deal with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Xilinx software is licensed by subscription that has to be renewed annually.
Even WebPack.
It's also single seat, so you can't install it on both a desktop and laptop.
The license is tied either to the hard drive or PHY MAC.
Even though free, it's not clear whether they will grant you more than one 'free' license, and the shrinkwrap EULA isn't stated in advance.
For instance, even though highly implausible they would, there's no guarantee they can't extort payment from you at a later time, gratuitously cancel your license, or simply cease their 'free' WebPack program.
I personally chose to avoid Xilinx for my uses, in favor of Altera.
Not because I dislike Xilinx or anything, but simply because the last thing I wanted is more licensing complexity to deal with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692861</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28704093</id>
	<title>store to purchase your board from</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247676240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Might I suggest looking at</p><p>http://microcontrollershop.com/</p><p>for purchasing whatever you decide upon.<br>They sell most of the stuff everyone here has suggested, as well as some books to assist you in learning.</p><p>You might also want to chose some sort of project/goal to aim yourself at.<br>It's easier to stay focused on moving forward with a goal in mind.</p><p>regards</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Might I suggest looking athttp : //microcontrollershop.com/for purchasing whatever you decide upon.They sell most of the stuff everyone here has suggested , as well as some books to assist you in learning.You might also want to chose some sort of project/goal to aim yourself at.It 's easier to stay focused on moving forward with a goal in mind.regards</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Might I suggest looking athttp://microcontrollershop.com/for purchasing whatever you decide upon.They sell most of the stuff everyone here has suggested, as well as some books to assist you in learning.You might also want to chose some sort of project/goal to aim yourself at.It's easier to stay focused on moving forward with a goal in mind.regards</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28701099</id>
	<title>Suggestions on board and approach.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247650920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hello.</p><p>I would consider myself as master programmer (professional experience &gt; 10 years), with very considerable experience on embedded programming and networking.</p><p>I've recently self taught myself as amateur hardware engineer. It has been very useful to be master in parallel programming techniques and understand the parallel actions mindset as parallelism in hardware design is the most significant difference to software design which is often very serial. I started with VHDL but moved to Verilog, because I tend to like verilog level of verbosity. VHDL is extremely verbose. Also, my development tools supported systems verilog, which appeared to be quite a good way to do "test driven hardware design". Anyway, I first started with Altera Cyclone III Starter Board, which seemed quite nice.</p><p>I was quite fun to play with it. I had quite a soon environment up with ucLinux and NIOS II. And it felt pretty much home to write code for the embedded processor and occasionally enhance the board with self-designed peripherals.</p><p>Anyway, after playing with the FPGA I found out that using good hardware simulator (such as Mentor Graphics ModelSim) is often better for designing small hardware components than actual FPGA. The debugging is much more precise and you get easily ran the system in "step-by-step" mode. ModelSim PE is very expensive, but you may find restricted versions from FPGA vendors for free. I got free version for Altera, not sure if its still free, the Actel one should be free.</p><p>After looking at things, (my work has paralleled hw design), I've noticed these things: If you like fancy embedded soft core processors, get lowest costs Actel M1 you may find (it can be loaded with ARM M1 which is pretty much as good as you can get for generic CPU like CPU for softcore on FPGA.)</p><p>$295 (does it fit you budjet) is price for soon available Spartan-6 is quite nice price.<br>Compared to typical Spartan-3 board advantage is much higher Hz for designs and niceties on board - lots of RAM and NIC.</p><p>The soon available Virtex-6 board seems superb. Fits designs that were previously only for 10k or higher cost equipment. Out of your price range but brings much lower cost of designs.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....</p><p>Summary: For learning and small designs: Use ModelSim. No cost neccsarry.<br>For trying etc. Spartan-3 or Cyclone-III or wait Spartan-6 (soon available).<br>For embedded processing: Xilinx is good or if you want real processors Actel.</p><p>Hope this helps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hello.I would consider myself as master programmer ( professional experience &gt; 10 years ) , with very considerable experience on embedded programming and networking.I 've recently self taught myself as amateur hardware engineer .
It has been very useful to be master in parallel programming techniques and understand the parallel actions mindset as parallelism in hardware design is the most significant difference to software design which is often very serial .
I started with VHDL but moved to Verilog , because I tend to like verilog level of verbosity .
VHDL is extremely verbose .
Also , my development tools supported systems verilog , which appeared to be quite a good way to do " test driven hardware design " .
Anyway , I first started with Altera Cyclone III Starter Board , which seemed quite nice.I was quite fun to play with it .
I had quite a soon environment up with ucLinux and NIOS II .
And it felt pretty much home to write code for the embedded processor and occasionally enhance the board with self-designed peripherals.Anyway , after playing with the FPGA I found out that using good hardware simulator ( such as Mentor Graphics ModelSim ) is often better for designing small hardware components than actual FPGA .
The debugging is much more precise and you get easily ran the system in " step-by-step " mode .
ModelSim PE is very expensive , but you may find restricted versions from FPGA vendors for free .
I got free version for Altera , not sure if its still free , the Actel one should be free.After looking at things , ( my work has paralleled hw design ) , I 've noticed these things : If you like fancy embedded soft core processors , get lowest costs Actel M1 you may find ( it can be loaded with ARM M1 which is pretty much as good as you can get for generic CPU like CPU for softcore on FPGA .
) $ 295 ( does it fit you budjet ) is price for soon available Spartan-6 is quite nice price.Compared to typical Spartan-3 board advantage is much higher Hz for designs and niceties on board - lots of RAM and NIC.The soon available Virtex-6 board seems superb .
Fits designs that were previously only for 10k or higher cost equipment .
Out of your price range but brings much lower cost of designs .
....Summary : For learning and small designs : Use ModelSim .
No cost neccsarry.For trying etc .
Spartan-3 or Cyclone-III or wait Spartan-6 ( soon available ) .For embedded processing : Xilinx is good or if you want real processors Actel.Hope this helps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hello.I would consider myself as master programmer (professional experience &gt; 10 years), with very considerable experience on embedded programming and networking.I've recently self taught myself as amateur hardware engineer.
It has been very useful to be master in parallel programming techniques and understand the parallel actions mindset as parallelism in hardware design is the most significant difference to software design which is often very serial.
I started with VHDL but moved to Verilog, because I tend to like verilog level of verbosity.
VHDL is extremely verbose.
Also, my development tools supported systems verilog, which appeared to be quite a good way to do "test driven hardware design".
Anyway, I first started with Altera Cyclone III Starter Board, which seemed quite nice.I was quite fun to play with it.
I had quite a soon environment up with ucLinux and NIOS II.
And it felt pretty much home to write code for the embedded processor and occasionally enhance the board with self-designed peripherals.Anyway, after playing with the FPGA I found out that using good hardware simulator (such as Mentor Graphics ModelSim) is often better for designing small hardware components than actual FPGA.
The debugging is much more precise and you get easily ran the system in "step-by-step" mode.
ModelSim PE is very expensive, but you may find restricted versions from FPGA vendors for free.
I got free version for Altera, not sure if its still free, the Actel one should be free.After looking at things, (my work has paralleled hw design), I've noticed these things: If you like fancy embedded soft core processors, get lowest costs Actel M1 you may find (it can be loaded with ARM M1 which is pretty much as good as you can get for generic CPU like CPU for softcore on FPGA.
)$295 (does it fit you budjet) is price for soon available Spartan-6 is quite nice price.Compared to typical Spartan-3 board advantage is much higher Hz for designs and niceties on board - lots of RAM and NIC.The soon available Virtex-6 board seems superb.
Fits designs that were previously only for 10k or higher cost equipment.
Out of your price range but brings much lower cost of designs.
....Summary: For learning and small designs: Use ModelSim.
No cost neccsarry.For trying etc.
Spartan-3 or Cyclone-III or wait Spartan-6 (soon available).For embedded processing: Xilinx is good or if you want real processors Actel.Hope this helps.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693225</id>
	<title>DLP Design</title>
	<author>Sponge Bath</author>
	<datestamp>1247595480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>DLP Design (www.dlpdesign.com) has some interesting FPGA modules. Some include a USB port that can be used to program and communicate with the FPGA. <a href="http://www.dlpdesign.com/fpga/fpga.shtml" title="dlpdesign.com">This</a> [dlpdesign.com] has a USB port and a Spartan 3E for a reasonable price and includes tutorials. Combined with the free Xilinx tools you can do quite a lot with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DLP Design ( www.dlpdesign.com ) has some interesting FPGA modules .
Some include a USB port that can be used to program and communicate with the FPGA .
This [ dlpdesign.com ] has a USB port and a Spartan 3E for a reasonable price and includes tutorials .
Combined with the free Xilinx tools you can do quite a lot with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DLP Design (www.dlpdesign.com) has some interesting FPGA modules.
Some include a USB port that can be used to program and communicate with the FPGA.
This [dlpdesign.com] has a USB port and a Spartan 3E for a reasonable price and includes tutorials.
Combined with the free Xilinx tools you can do quite a lot with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693161</id>
	<title>VHDL</title>
	<author>skeeto</author>
	<datestamp>1247595180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For VHDL itself, I learned that with <a href="http://ghdl.free.fr/" title="ghdl.free.fr">GHDL</a> [ghdl.free.fr] (VHDL front-end to gcc, though it hasn't been updated in a year now) and <a href="http://gtkwave.sourceforge.net/" title="sourceforge.net">GTKWave</a> [sourceforge.net] for viewing the waves. Throw in make for a build system,  and it was all I needed to design and implement (VHDL only, that is) a simple microprocessor.</p><p>That's a start anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For VHDL itself , I learned that with GHDL [ ghdl.free.fr ] ( VHDL front-end to gcc , though it has n't been updated in a year now ) and GTKWave [ sourceforge.net ] for viewing the waves .
Throw in make for a build system , and it was all I needed to design and implement ( VHDL only , that is ) a simple microprocessor.That 's a start anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For VHDL itself, I learned that with GHDL [ghdl.free.fr] (VHDL front-end to gcc, though it hasn't been updated in a year now) and GTKWave [sourceforge.net] for viewing the waves.
Throw in make for a build system,  and it was all I needed to design and implement (VHDL only, that is) a simple microprocessor.That's a start anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693457</id>
	<title>Some tips</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247596320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can purchase a relatively inexpensive board these days (Spartan-3 or an XUPv5). After you've taken the steps to learn the HDL and the concepts, you should try taking a look at a few reference designs online (http://www.xilinx.com/univ/xupv5-lx110t-refdes.htm).</p><p>Also, for learning purposes, if you're willing to, there are some high-quality university courses that you can watch online that walk you through the digital design concepts and the FPGA tool flows. Here's one from a pretty well-known digital design course at UC Berkeley: http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course\_details.php?seriesid=1906978206</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can purchase a relatively inexpensive board these days ( Spartan-3 or an XUPv5 ) .
After you 've taken the steps to learn the HDL and the concepts , you should try taking a look at a few reference designs online ( http : //www.xilinx.com/univ/xupv5-lx110t-refdes.htm ) .Also , for learning purposes , if you 're willing to , there are some high-quality university courses that you can watch online that walk you through the digital design concepts and the FPGA tool flows .
Here 's one from a pretty well-known digital design course at UC Berkeley : http : //webcast.berkeley.edu/course \ _details.php ? seriesid = 1906978206</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can purchase a relatively inexpensive board these days (Spartan-3 or an XUPv5).
After you've taken the steps to learn the HDL and the concepts, you should try taking a look at a few reference designs online (http://www.xilinx.com/univ/xupv5-lx110t-refdes.htm).Also, for learning purposes, if you're willing to, there are some high-quality university courses that you can watch online that walk you through the digital design concepts and the FPGA tool flows.
Here's one from a pretty well-known digital design course at UC Berkeley: http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course\_details.php?seriesid=1906978206</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28700761</id>
	<title>Altera free tools are really good.</title>
	<author>RayDude</author>
	<datestamp>1247601540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm using Altera tools for work right now. We have a paid seat, but even in free mode, the web kit is powerful enough to do pretty complex stuff. To experiment with the software, go to altera.com, click download in the upper right corner and download the web kit.

Unfortunately, the linux version is not free but you can use it for 30 days without a license.

Xilinx also has a free version you can use.

As for development boards, here's the cheapest FPGA board I found for Altera: <a href="http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc2-2C20N.html" title="altera.com">http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc2-2C20N.html</a> [altera.com]

I'm using the Cyclone III version of that board. Its quite good.

For a Cyclone I board, these look inexpensive and have a wide range of features: <a href="http://www.knjn.com/ShopBoards\_USB2.html" title="knjn.com">http://www.knjn.com/ShopBoards\_USB2.html</a> [knjn.com]

Xilinx has a lot of development boards as well.

My experience with Xilinx is better in the support department than Altera. They will give you the software and even dev hardware if you ask nicely. But their software takes more than 12 hours (yes twelve hours) to install and update on a core 2 duo machine. Sad really.

The altera software is lighter feeling but just as powerful and seems to be more<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... what's the word: friendly. I haven't used Xilinx in a while but I had a hellofa time with it, when I was trying to prototype asics with Virtex II.

Altera is currently under mandate to make money from their software, even though they are a hardware company. That makes getting a free license almost impossible. Too bad for them.

I've been getting great support for Altera from Octera Solutions (as opposed to Altera itself). Perhaps they can help you.

If you're brand new to hardware, you might want to learn Verilog or VHDL first. I think both Xilinx and Altera's web kits come with Modelsim. Its a stripped down version but it will be fine to learn the basics.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm using Altera tools for work right now .
We have a paid seat , but even in free mode , the web kit is powerful enough to do pretty complex stuff .
To experiment with the software , go to altera.com , click download in the upper right corner and download the web kit .
Unfortunately , the linux version is not free but you can use it for 30 days without a license .
Xilinx also has a free version you can use .
As for development boards , here 's the cheapest FPGA board I found for Altera : http : //www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc2-2C20N.html [ altera.com ] I 'm using the Cyclone III version of that board .
Its quite good .
For a Cyclone I board , these look inexpensive and have a wide range of features : http : //www.knjn.com/ShopBoards \ _USB2.html [ knjn.com ] Xilinx has a lot of development boards as well .
My experience with Xilinx is better in the support department than Altera .
They will give you the software and even dev hardware if you ask nicely .
But their software takes more than 12 hours ( yes twelve hours ) to install and update on a core 2 duo machine .
Sad really .
The altera software is lighter feeling but just as powerful and seems to be more ... what 's the word : friendly .
I have n't used Xilinx in a while but I had a hellofa time with it , when I was trying to prototype asics with Virtex II .
Altera is currently under mandate to make money from their software , even though they are a hardware company .
That makes getting a free license almost impossible .
Too bad for them .
I 've been getting great support for Altera from Octera Solutions ( as opposed to Altera itself ) .
Perhaps they can help you .
If you 're brand new to hardware , you might want to learn Verilog or VHDL first .
I think both Xilinx and Altera 's web kits come with Modelsim .
Its a stripped down version but it will be fine to learn the basics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm using Altera tools for work right now.
We have a paid seat, but even in free mode, the web kit is powerful enough to do pretty complex stuff.
To experiment with the software, go to altera.com, click download in the upper right corner and download the web kit.
Unfortunately, the linux version is not free but you can use it for 30 days without a license.
Xilinx also has a free version you can use.
As for development boards, here's the cheapest FPGA board I found for Altera: http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc2-2C20N.html [altera.com]

I'm using the Cyclone III version of that board.
Its quite good.
For a Cyclone I board, these look inexpensive and have a wide range of features: http://www.knjn.com/ShopBoards\_USB2.html [knjn.com]

Xilinx has a lot of development boards as well.
My experience with Xilinx is better in the support department than Altera.
They will give you the software and even dev hardware if you ask nicely.
But their software takes more than 12 hours (yes twelve hours) to install and update on a core 2 duo machine.
Sad really.
The altera software is lighter feeling but just as powerful and seems to be more ... what's the word: friendly.
I haven't used Xilinx in a while but I had a hellofa time with it, when I was trying to prototype asics with Virtex II.
Altera is currently under mandate to make money from their software, even though they are a hardware company.
That makes getting a free license almost impossible.
Too bad for them.
I've been getting great support for Altera from Octera Solutions (as opposed to Altera itself).
Perhaps they can help you.
If you're brand new to hardware, you might want to learn Verilog or VHDL first.
I think both Xilinx and Altera's web kits come with Modelsim.
Its a stripped down version but it will be fine to learn the basics.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694469</id>
	<title>try ...</title>
	<author>dominic.laporte</author>
	<datestamp>1247600820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Disclaimer:<br>I am not affiliated with them. Just something i was my self interested in for a while just like you.</p><p><a href="http://www.picocomputing.com/products/cards.php" title="picocomputing.com" rel="nofollow">these guys at www.picocomputing"</a> [picocomputing.com] they have nice little cards.</p><p>One thing is that the tools are still not available for free if you want to do very advanced stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Disclaimer : I am not affiliated with them .
Just something i was my self interested in for a while just like you.these guys at www.picocomputing " [ picocomputing.com ] they have nice little cards.One thing is that the tools are still not available for free if you want to do very advanced stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Disclaimer:I am not affiliated with them.
Just something i was my self interested in for a while just like you.these guys at www.picocomputing" [picocomputing.com] they have nice little cards.One thing is that the tools are still not available for free if you want to do very advanced stuff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693483</id>
	<title>a n00b's FPGA advice</title>
	<author>wangahrah</author>
	<datestamp>1247596440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>As many have stated, both Xilinx are Altera can be good routes.  Note that while they Altera tools support Linux, their freebie Web edition does not, and the full kit is more than you'd want to spend.  Any Xilinx starter kit should be fine for tooling around.  I'm not sure your experience level, so I'll go with the basics...<br> <br>

I'm a young n00b in the FPGA world (two years design experience out of college now), so my experiences are pretty recent.  I've got an EE degree, and would say first of all, get a firm grasp of logic design.  Do you know what a flip flop actually is?  Are you familiar with things like setup and hold time?  If not, start out with a lot of reading. Horowitz and Hill's "The Art of Electronics" is a good standard...there's a lot of analog stuff that's "less relevant" to you, but there's a good section on digital design that's a great start. <br> <br>

One of my young programmer colleagues was looking over some of my code, and seemed to think it was pretty easy...the syntax seemed pretty straightforward, he liked the idea of combinatorial logic being so easy to implement, etc.  He started tinkering himself, and VERY quickly realized that it was much more complex than he thought when issues of timing were thrown in. A fundamental knowledge of how signals are propagating through the device is key.  It's not just PROGRAMMING, you're programming the actual hardware (or making fancy lookup tables, whatever. Get off my back!). <br> <br>

As designs get more complicated, you'll need to learn how to use some tools to analyze timings.  Altera has Timequest, not sure what Xilinx uses.  In college, I managed to get away with the bare minimum of analysis, but I consider this to be a flaw in my education...to do things right,  you should do proper timing analysis. <br> <br>

I have an Altera starter kit I dink around with myself when I'm not at work, and it's definitely worth the time to learn the basics if you're an eternal tinkerer.  Finally, the best advice I can give you...don't forget to use VIM as your editor, or you're just setting  yourself up for failure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As many have stated , both Xilinx are Altera can be good routes .
Note that while they Altera tools support Linux , their freebie Web edition does not , and the full kit is more than you 'd want to spend .
Any Xilinx starter kit should be fine for tooling around .
I 'm not sure your experience level , so I 'll go with the basics.. . I 'm a young n00b in the FPGA world ( two years design experience out of college now ) , so my experiences are pretty recent .
I 've got an EE degree , and would say first of all , get a firm grasp of logic design .
Do you know what a flip flop actually is ?
Are you familiar with things like setup and hold time ?
If not , start out with a lot of reading .
Horowitz and Hill 's " The Art of Electronics " is a good standard...there 's a lot of analog stuff that 's " less relevant " to you , but there 's a good section on digital design that 's a great start .
One of my young programmer colleagues was looking over some of my code , and seemed to think it was pretty easy...the syntax seemed pretty straightforward , he liked the idea of combinatorial logic being so easy to implement , etc .
He started tinkering himself , and VERY quickly realized that it was much more complex than he thought when issues of timing were thrown in .
A fundamental knowledge of how signals are propagating through the device is key .
It 's not just PROGRAMMING , you 're programming the actual hardware ( or making fancy lookup tables , whatever .
Get off my back ! ) .
As designs get more complicated , you 'll need to learn how to use some tools to analyze timings .
Altera has Timequest , not sure what Xilinx uses .
In college , I managed to get away with the bare minimum of analysis , but I consider this to be a flaw in my education...to do things right , you should do proper timing analysis .
I have an Altera starter kit I dink around with myself when I 'm not at work , and it 's definitely worth the time to learn the basics if you 're an eternal tinkerer .
Finally , the best advice I can give you...do n't forget to use VIM as your editor , or you 're just setting yourself up for failure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As many have stated, both Xilinx are Altera can be good routes.
Note that while they Altera tools support Linux, their freebie Web edition does not, and the full kit is more than you'd want to spend.
Any Xilinx starter kit should be fine for tooling around.
I'm not sure your experience level, so I'll go with the basics... 

I'm a young n00b in the FPGA world (two years design experience out of college now), so my experiences are pretty recent.
I've got an EE degree, and would say first of all, get a firm grasp of logic design.
Do you know what a flip flop actually is?
Are you familiar with things like setup and hold time?
If not, start out with a lot of reading.
Horowitz and Hill's "The Art of Electronics" is a good standard...there's a lot of analog stuff that's "less relevant" to you, but there's a good section on digital design that's a great start.
One of my young programmer colleagues was looking over some of my code, and seemed to think it was pretty easy...the syntax seemed pretty straightforward, he liked the idea of combinatorial logic being so easy to implement, etc.
He started tinkering himself, and VERY quickly realized that it was much more complex than he thought when issues of timing were thrown in.
A fundamental knowledge of how signals are propagating through the device is key.
It's not just PROGRAMMING, you're programming the actual hardware (or making fancy lookup tables, whatever.
Get off my back!).
As designs get more complicated, you'll need to learn how to use some tools to analyze timings.
Altera has Timequest, not sure what Xilinx uses.
In college, I managed to get away with the bare minimum of analysis, but I consider this to be a flaw in my education...to do things right,  you should do proper timing analysis.
I have an Altera starter kit I dink around with myself when I'm not at work, and it's definitely worth the time to learn the basics if you're an eternal tinkerer.
Finally, the best advice I can give you...don't forget to use VIM as your editor, or you're just setting  yourself up for failure.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28700045</id>
	<title>Linux friendly FPGA board</title>
	<author>smi4409</author>
	<datestamp>1247592120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Take a look at the Demand Peripherals Baseboard4.  It uses standard USB-serial for code download instead of JTAG and the development is even Makefile based.

Hope this helps<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....</htmltext>
<tokenext>Take a look at the Demand Peripherals Baseboard4 .
It uses standard USB-serial for code download instead of JTAG and the development is even Makefile based .
Hope this helps ... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Take a look at the Demand Peripherals Baseboard4.
It uses standard USB-serial for code download instead of JTAG and the development is even Makefile based.
Hope this helps ....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694687</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247601840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also make sure to read up on the target chip of choice be it Spartan 3, Virtex 4, etc. Understanding your target architecture is even more important that with software. VHDL and Verilog are very low level, like C, and the devil is in the details. It may work but it'll take 2x the space and run @ 1/2 the MHz.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also make sure to read up on the target chip of choice be it Spartan 3 , Virtex 4 , etc .
Understanding your target architecture is even more important that with software .
VHDL and Verilog are very low level , like C , and the devil is in the details .
It may work but it 'll take 2x the space and run @ 1/2 the MHz .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also make sure to read up on the target chip of choice be it Spartan 3, Virtex 4, etc.
Understanding your target architecture is even more important that with software.
VHDL and Verilog are very low level, like C, and the devil is in the details.
It may work but it'll take 2x the space and run @ 1/2 the MHz.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693741</id>
	<title>link</title>
	<author>rhythmx</author>
	<datestamp>1247597520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a great site with a good bit of introductory information. I implemented their LED flasher tutorials when I was playing with my Xylinx Spartan board. <a href="http://fpga4fun.com/" title="fpga4fun.com">fpga4fun.com</a> [fpga4fun.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a great site with a good bit of introductory information .
I implemented their LED flasher tutorials when I was playing with my Xylinx Spartan board .
fpga4fun.com [ fpga4fun.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a great site with a good bit of introductory information.
I implemented their LED flasher tutorials when I was playing with my Xylinx Spartan board.
fpga4fun.com [fpga4fun.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28697175</id>
	<title>Forware</title>
	<author>pablodiazgutierrez</author>
	<datestamp>1247569980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's a Spanish startup, <a href="http://forware.es/" title="forware.es">Forware</a> [forware.es], that develops FPGA development tools and has a growing user community. Not sure about the conditions, though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a Spanish startup , Forware [ forware.es ] , that develops FPGA development tools and has a growing user community .
Not sure about the conditions , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a Spanish startup, Forware [forware.es], that develops FPGA development tools and has a growing user community.
Not sure about the conditions, though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28703105</id>
	<title>combined FPGA and ARM processor</title>
	<author>arkarumba</author>
	<datestamp>1247670780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I not really sure how this compares to other options.<br>I'd be interested in the thoughts of those more expereienced.<br>.<br>US$229<br>500Mhz ARM9 CPU running Linux<br>onboard 12,000 LUT on-board programmable Lattice FPGA<br><a href="http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7800" title="embeddedarm.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7800</a> [embeddedarm.com]<br>.<br>US$84<br>250MHz ARM9 CPU running Linux<br>onboard 5000 LUT Lattice FPGA<br><a href="http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7500" title="embeddedarm.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7500</a> [embeddedarm.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I not really sure how this compares to other options.I 'd be interested in the thoughts of those more expereienced..US $ 229500Mhz ARM9 CPU running Linuxonboard 12,000 LUT on-board programmable Lattice FPGAhttp : //www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php ? product = TS-7800 [ embeddedarm.com ] .US $ 84250MHz ARM9 CPU running Linuxonboard 5000 LUT Lattice FPGAhttp : //www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php ? product = TS-7500 [ embeddedarm.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I not really sure how this compares to other options.I'd be interested in the thoughts of those more expereienced..US$229500Mhz ARM9 CPU running Linuxonboard 12,000 LUT on-board programmable Lattice FPGAhttp://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7800 [embeddedarm.com].US$84250MHz ARM9 CPU running Linuxonboard 5000 LUT Lattice FPGAhttp://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7500 [embeddedarm.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693021</id>
	<title>General rule</title>
	<author>Quiet\_Desperation</author>
	<datestamp>1247594700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>VHDL for FPGAs and Verilog for ASICs.

This rule applies everywhere except where it doesn't.</htmltext>
<tokenext>VHDL for FPGAs and Verilog for ASICs .
This rule applies everywhere except where it does n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>VHDL for FPGAs and Verilog for ASICs.
This rule applies everywhere except where it doesn't.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694995</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247603580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The last time I tried Xilinx, it was buggy as hell even on Windows (their main native development platform.)  Nothing is more frustrating than to have a corrupted project file that builds just fine until you try to feed it a test waveform and you find for some reason your project fails to simulate at all.  You start over again and rebuild your project exactly the same way and it (maybe) works the second (or third) time.  I hope they fixed a lot of the problems.  Xilinx was NOT ready for prime time when I tried it a year or two ago.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The last time I tried Xilinx , it was buggy as hell even on Windows ( their main native development platform .
) Nothing is more frustrating than to have a corrupted project file that builds just fine until you try to feed it a test waveform and you find for some reason your project fails to simulate at all .
You start over again and rebuild your project exactly the same way and it ( maybe ) works the second ( or third ) time .
I hope they fixed a lot of the problems .
Xilinx was NOT ready for prime time when I tried it a year or two ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The last time I tried Xilinx, it was buggy as hell even on Windows (their main native development platform.
)  Nothing is more frustrating than to have a corrupted project file that builds just fine until you try to feed it a test waveform and you find for some reason your project fails to simulate at all.
You start over again and rebuild your project exactly the same way and it (maybe) works the second (or third) time.
I hope they fixed a lot of the problems.
Xilinx was NOT ready for prime time when I tried it a year or two ago.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28696789</id>
	<title>Have you consider microcontrollers instead</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247568240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For someone with a programming background planning on doing circuit development, you may prefer to work with microcontrollers. My experience with fpga's has been interfacing existing processors with peripheral devices, or signal processing applications that must be done very quickly. Another use is for performing very specific tasks in massive parallel, as a colleague of mine has done, but I do not have first hand experience in this utility.<br>However my understanding in all cases is that there is a big learning curve for doing these kinds of things.</p><p>If you want to blink some lights, turn on lcd screens, interface with accelerometers, etc.  i would suggest mC as a much-much cheaper alternative ($0.90 compared to fpgas in the $100s ). Or for more advanced applications you could look into gumstix($169) which are full featured computers smaller than a stick of gum!</p><p>That being said you could use some of the xilinx toolkits for matlab to simplify your work, but for the most part in my humble opinion for amateur eletronics fpga's are a bit too complicated.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For someone with a programming background planning on doing circuit development , you may prefer to work with microcontrollers .
My experience with fpga 's has been interfacing existing processors with peripheral devices , or signal processing applications that must be done very quickly .
Another use is for performing very specific tasks in massive parallel , as a colleague of mine has done , but I do not have first hand experience in this utility.However my understanding in all cases is that there is a big learning curve for doing these kinds of things.If you want to blink some lights , turn on lcd screens , interface with accelerometers , etc .
i would suggest mC as a much-much cheaper alternative ( $ 0.90 compared to fpgas in the $ 100s ) .
Or for more advanced applications you could look into gumstix ( $ 169 ) which are full featured computers smaller than a stick of gum ! That being said you could use some of the xilinx toolkits for matlab to simplify your work , but for the most part in my humble opinion for amateur eletronics fpga 's are a bit too complicated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For someone with a programming background planning on doing circuit development, you may prefer to work with microcontrollers.
My experience with fpga's has been interfacing existing processors with peripheral devices, or signal processing applications that must be done very quickly.
Another use is for performing very specific tasks in massive parallel, as a colleague of mine has done, but I do not have first hand experience in this utility.However my understanding in all cases is that there is a big learning curve for doing these kinds of things.If you want to blink some lights, turn on lcd screens, interface with accelerometers, etc.
i would suggest mC as a much-much cheaper alternative ($0.90 compared to fpgas in the $100s ).
Or for more advanced applications you could look into gumstix($169) which are full featured computers smaller than a stick of gum!That being said you could use some of the xilinx toolkits for matlab to simplify your work, but for the most part in my humble opinion for amateur eletronics fpga's are a bit too complicated.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28710441</id>
	<title>Re:What I did - and recommend</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247662620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Absolutely right, the Spartan-3 starter board is best buy on the market right now, more bang for your buck than anything Altera.</p><p>And to go with it, buy a copy of "FPGA Prototyping by Verilog Examples, Xilinx Spartan-3 Version" (there's also a VHDL version if you favor VHDL), by Pong P. Chu. It's a great introductory book.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Absolutely right , the Spartan-3 starter board is best buy on the market right now , more bang for your buck than anything Altera.And to go with it , buy a copy of " FPGA Prototyping by Verilog Examples , Xilinx Spartan-3 Version " ( there 's also a VHDL version if you favor VHDL ) , by Pong P. Chu. It 's a great introductory book .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Absolutely right, the Spartan-3 starter board is best buy on the market right now, more bang for your buck than anything Altera.And to go with it, buy a copy of "FPGA Prototyping by Verilog Examples, Xilinx Spartan-3 Version" (there's also a VHDL version if you favor VHDL), by Pong P. Chu. It's a great introductory book.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693049</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693035</id>
	<title>Disagree on the VHDL</title>
	<author>pem</author>
	<datestamp>1247594760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think it can be harder for a newbie to get a functioning VHDL design.
<p>
But in particular, I disagree with your reasoning about why to use VHDL vs. Verilog.  Obviously, everybody's mileage may vary, but removing all vestiges of familiarity so that everything gets equally hard is not the way I learn.
</p><p>
The way I learned C was by looking at the assembly language output of the compiler, and you can effectively do the same thing with hardware.
</p><p>
It's not that hard to see what kind of logic your stuff compiles into -- in fact, you can dump a verilog netlist that shows you exactly how your logic maps to the internal chip elements.  At a higher level, you can just look at the resource utilization report to see how "big" your circuit is.
</p><p>
In terms of the "right" language to learn for other reasons, apparently VHDL is somewhat more popular in Europe, and maybe somewhat more popular among FPGA-only designers, but all the "real" chip companies in the US use Verilog.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it can be harder for a newbie to get a functioning VHDL design .
But in particular , I disagree with your reasoning about why to use VHDL vs. Verilog. Obviously , everybody 's mileage may vary , but removing all vestiges of familiarity so that everything gets equally hard is not the way I learn .
The way I learned C was by looking at the assembly language output of the compiler , and you can effectively do the same thing with hardware .
It 's not that hard to see what kind of logic your stuff compiles into -- in fact , you can dump a verilog netlist that shows you exactly how your logic maps to the internal chip elements .
At a higher level , you can just look at the resource utilization report to see how " big " your circuit is .
In terms of the " right " language to learn for other reasons , apparently VHDL is somewhat more popular in Europe , and maybe somewhat more popular among FPGA-only designers , but all the " real " chip companies in the US use Verilog .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it can be harder for a newbie to get a functioning VHDL design.
But in particular, I disagree with your reasoning about why to use VHDL vs. Verilog.  Obviously, everybody's mileage may vary, but removing all vestiges of familiarity so that everything gets equally hard is not the way I learn.
The way I learned C was by looking at the assembly language output of the compiler, and you can effectively do the same thing with hardware.
It's not that hard to see what kind of logic your stuff compiles into -- in fact, you can dump a verilog netlist that shows you exactly how your logic maps to the internal chip elements.
At a higher level, you can just look at the resource utilization report to see how "big" your circuit is.
In terms of the "right" language to learn for other reasons, apparently VHDL is somewhat more popular in Europe, and maybe somewhat more popular among FPGA-only designers, but all the "real" chip companies in the US use Verilog.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692861</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28701295</id>
	<title>Decent cheap dev kit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247654220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/FPGA.htm</p><p>Runs from usb power, plugs into a breadboard, and it's cheap. ( &#194;&pound;86 )</p><p>http://apple.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/ftdichip?op=catalogue-products-null&amp;prodCategoryID=5&amp;title=USB+to+FPGA</p><p>Also, they're based in the UK - so easier for you to get a hold of.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/FPGA.htmRuns from usb power , plugs into a breadboard , and it 's cheap .
(     86 ) http : //apple.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/ftdichip ? op = catalogue-products-null&amp;prodCategoryID = 5&amp;title = USB + to + FPGAAlso , they 're based in the UK - so easier for you to get a hold of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/FPGA.htmRuns from usb power, plugs into a breadboard, and it's cheap.
( Â£86 )http://apple.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/ftdichip?op=catalogue-products-null&amp;prodCategoryID=5&amp;title=USB+to+FPGAAlso, they're based in the UK - so easier for you to get a hold of.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28697753</id>
	<title>Re:I like the Digilent Nexys2</title>
	<author>coarticulation</author>
	<datestamp>1247573220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>About using the Digilent USB for data transfers from Linux, you might want to check out the project I recently started: <a href="http://mhz100q.sourceforge.net/" title="sourceforge.net" rel="nofollow">http://mhz100q.sourceforge.net/</a> [sourceforge.net]. It includes VHDL and firmware for the Cypress USB chip to support transfers using libusb.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>About using the Digilent USB for data transfers from Linux , you might want to check out the project I recently started : http : //mhz100q.sourceforge.net/ [ sourceforge.net ] .
It includes VHDL and firmware for the Cypress USB chip to support transfers using libusb .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>About using the Digilent USB for data transfers from Linux, you might want to check out the project I recently started: http://mhz100q.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net].
It includes VHDL and firmware for the Cypress USB chip to support transfers using libusb.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692913</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693567</id>
	<title>First things first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247596800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Step 1 Forget everything you know about programming.  Programmable logic and FPGA design deals with programming of events that all happen in parallel.  VHDL code does not execute in the order of the code statements,  it compiles into a large logic array that executes at the speed of the gate propagation.<br>Logic design does not execute like standard programs.  Everything in a process occurs at once unless there is a state machine present.  If a state machine, present, it all happens on the machine clock.  Code should be written with this in mind.  Failing to do so will result in unneeded state machines forcing the logic to execute sequentially.<br>Step 2: Find something else to do.  Designing with VHDL is more of a art form than programming.  I deeply respect anyone who can do it well.  I have been designing analog and digital circuits for 30 years and VHDL design is stillone of the most challanging tasks I have to do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Step 1 Forget everything you know about programming .
Programmable logic and FPGA design deals with programming of events that all happen in parallel .
VHDL code does not execute in the order of the code statements , it compiles into a large logic array that executes at the speed of the gate propagation.Logic design does not execute like standard programs .
Everything in a process occurs at once unless there is a state machine present .
If a state machine , present , it all happens on the machine clock .
Code should be written with this in mind .
Failing to do so will result in unneeded state machines forcing the logic to execute sequentially.Step 2 : Find something else to do .
Designing with VHDL is more of a art form than programming .
I deeply respect anyone who can do it well .
I have been designing analog and digital circuits for 30 years and VHDL design is stillone of the most challanging tasks I have to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Step 1 Forget everything you know about programming.
Programmable logic and FPGA design deals with programming of events that all happen in parallel.
VHDL code does not execute in the order of the code statements,  it compiles into a large logic array that executes at the speed of the gate propagation.Logic design does not execute like standard programs.
Everything in a process occurs at once unless there is a state machine present.
If a state machine, present, it all happens on the machine clock.
Code should be written with this in mind.
Failing to do so will result in unneeded state machines forcing the logic to execute sequentially.Step 2: Find something else to do.
Designing with VHDL is more of a art form than programming.
I deeply respect anyone who can do it well.
I have been designing analog and digital circuits for 30 years and VHDL design is stillone of the most challanging tasks I have to do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28696041</id>
	<title>Re:advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247564880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you choose for VHDL, I recommend you consider using <a href="http://www.sigasi.com/" title="sigasi.com" rel="nofollow">Sigasi Hardware Development Toolkit</a> [sigasi.com]. Its online parser and context-based autocompletion help you up to speed in no time. It enables you to focus on FPGA design instead of having to struggle with syntax all the time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you choose for VHDL , I recommend you consider using Sigasi Hardware Development Toolkit [ sigasi.com ] .
Its online parser and context-based autocompletion help you up to speed in no time .
It enables you to focus on FPGA design instead of having to struggle with syntax all the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you choose for VHDL, I recommend you consider using Sigasi Hardware Development Toolkit [sigasi.com].
Its online parser and context-based autocompletion help you up to speed in no time.
It enables you to focus on FPGA design instead of having to struggle with syntax all the time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692833</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694607</id>
	<title>a solid programming background only hurts you</title>
	<author>goffster</author>
	<datestamp>1247601480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Forget what you know about programming, FPGA's are about thinking in a compleltely different mind set</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Forget what you know about programming , FPGA 's are about thinking in a compleltely different mind set</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forget what you know about programming, FPGA's are about thinking in a compleltely different mind set</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692839</id>
	<title>I've asked some "high profile" hobbyists the same.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247593980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The answer keeps coming back Altera.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The answer keeps coming back Altera .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The answer keeps coming back Altera.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694025</id>
	<title>Recommendations</title>
	<author>Ditiris</author>
	<datestamp>1247598780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I write FPGA code for a living, more in VHDL than Verilog, and more for Xilinx than Altera.<br> <br>

I would actually recommend that you don't buy a board at first.  You can pick one out so you can decide on a vendor's chip, that's fine, but simulate everything, because that's what HDL design is all about.  Both vendors offer a free version of their toolset and there's a free simulator with each of those.  Or you can download ModelSim Starter edition.  I wouldn't call either one Linux friendly.<br> <br>

As far as the board goes, I would recommend one of <a href="http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc3-embedded.html" title="altera.com" rel="nofollow">Altera's Nios II Embedded Dev Kits</a> [altera.com].  I feel that although Altera has a slightly steeper learning curve than Xilinx, they also have a nicer overall package than what Xilinx is currently offering.  I'm speaking from the point of embedding a soft processor though, if that doesn't interest you, then either of the cheap Altera Cyclone or Xilinx Spartan kits will get the job done.<br> <br>

This is the only book you need on VHDL: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Designers-Guide-Third-Systems-Silicon/dp/0120887851/ref=sr\_1\_2?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1247593247&amp;sr=1-2" title="amazon.com" rel="nofollow">The Designer's Guide to VHDL by Peter Ashenden</a> [amazon.com].<br> <br>

I haven't found a Verilog book of similar quality.<br> <br>

Buy several books on Verification and testbench writing.  That's where the real work comes in, and it's significantly more work than whatever circuit design you're doing.  Spend the time to learn how to write self-checking testbenches.<br> <br>

Read over the Synthesis guides for whatever vendor's board you choose.  Understand how the constructs you use affect synthesis.  There's a wealth of information in the Xilinx and Altera online documentation.  There's also a lot of really of good snippets of code which are themselves useful but also typically contrast less and more effective constructs for synthesis.<br> <br>

And finally, I will echo the caution that HDL is not a programming language, it is a design language.  If you do not have a fundamental grasp of circuits, logic design, and computer architecture, I would recommend you pursue those topics first.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I write FPGA code for a living , more in VHDL than Verilog , and more for Xilinx than Altera .
I would actually recommend that you do n't buy a board at first .
You can pick one out so you can decide on a vendor 's chip , that 's fine , but simulate everything , because that 's what HDL design is all about .
Both vendors offer a free version of their toolset and there 's a free simulator with each of those .
Or you can download ModelSim Starter edition .
I would n't call either one Linux friendly .
As far as the board goes , I would recommend one of Altera 's Nios II Embedded Dev Kits [ altera.com ] .
I feel that although Altera has a slightly steeper learning curve than Xilinx , they also have a nicer overall package than what Xilinx is currently offering .
I 'm speaking from the point of embedding a soft processor though , if that does n't interest you , then either of the cheap Altera Cyclone or Xilinx Spartan kits will get the job done .
This is the only book you need on VHDL : The Designer 's Guide to VHDL by Peter Ashenden [ amazon.com ] .
I have n't found a Verilog book of similar quality .
Buy several books on Verification and testbench writing .
That 's where the real work comes in , and it 's significantly more work than whatever circuit design you 're doing .
Spend the time to learn how to write self-checking testbenches .
Read over the Synthesis guides for whatever vendor 's board you choose .
Understand how the constructs you use affect synthesis .
There 's a wealth of information in the Xilinx and Altera online documentation .
There 's also a lot of really of good snippets of code which are themselves useful but also typically contrast less and more effective constructs for synthesis .
And finally , I will echo the caution that HDL is not a programming language , it is a design language .
If you do not have a fundamental grasp of circuits , logic design , and computer architecture , I would recommend you pursue those topics first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I write FPGA code for a living, more in VHDL than Verilog, and more for Xilinx than Altera.
I would actually recommend that you don't buy a board at first.
You can pick one out so you can decide on a vendor's chip, that's fine, but simulate everything, because that's what HDL design is all about.
Both vendors offer a free version of their toolset and there's a free simulator with each of those.
Or you can download ModelSim Starter edition.
I wouldn't call either one Linux friendly.
As far as the board goes, I would recommend one of Altera's Nios II Embedded Dev Kits [altera.com].
I feel that although Altera has a slightly steeper learning curve than Xilinx, they also have a nicer overall package than what Xilinx is currently offering.
I'm speaking from the point of embedding a soft processor though, if that doesn't interest you, then either of the cheap Altera Cyclone or Xilinx Spartan kits will get the job done.
This is the only book you need on VHDL: The Designer's Guide to VHDL by Peter Ashenden [amazon.com].
I haven't found a Verilog book of similar quality.
Buy several books on Verification and testbench writing.
That's where the real work comes in, and it's significantly more work than whatever circuit design you're doing.
Spend the time to learn how to write self-checking testbenches.
Read over the Synthesis guides for whatever vendor's board you choose.
Understand how the constructs you use affect synthesis.
There's a wealth of information in the Xilinx and Altera online documentation.
There's also a lot of really of good snippets of code which are themselves useful but also typically contrast less and more effective constructs for synthesis.
And finally, I will echo the caution that HDL is not a programming language, it is a design language.
If you do not have a fundamental grasp of circuits, logic design, and computer architecture, I would recommend you pursue those topics first.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28700067</id>
	<title>FPGA4Fun and KNJN Altera boards under $50</title>
	<author>Solder Fumes</author>
	<datestamp>1247592300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Read through some of the tutorials at <a href="http://www.fpga4fun.com/" title="fpga4fun.com">http://www.fpga4fun.com/</a> [fpga4fun.com] and then head over to the sister site <a href="http://www.knjn.com/" title="knjn.com">http://www.knjn.com/</a> [knjn.com] to find some FPGA boards. You can get a very good introduction to FPGA concepts for less than $50. The Pluto boards with Altera Cyclone FPGAs are perfect for getting your feet wet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Read through some of the tutorials at http : //www.fpga4fun.com/ [ fpga4fun.com ] and then head over to the sister site http : //www.knjn.com/ [ knjn.com ] to find some FPGA boards .
You can get a very good introduction to FPGA concepts for less than $ 50 .
The Pluto boards with Altera Cyclone FPGAs are perfect for getting your feet wet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Read through some of the tutorials at http://www.fpga4fun.com/ [fpga4fun.com] and then head over to the sister site http://www.knjn.com/ [knjn.com] to find some FPGA boards.
You can get a very good introduction to FPGA concepts for less than $50.
The Pluto boards with Altera Cyclone FPGAs are perfect for getting your feet wet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28696989</id>
	<title>Open Graphics Project FPGA card</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247569140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Consider the OGD1 card from the Open Graphics<br>Project.  Big FPGA, and video outputs (2x DVI 1x s-video)</p><p><a href="http://opengraphics.org/" title="opengraphics.org" rel="nofollow">http://opengraphics.org/</a> [opengraphics.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Consider the OGD1 card from the Open GraphicsProject .
Big FPGA , and video outputs ( 2x DVI 1x s-video ) http : //opengraphics.org/ [ opengraphics.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Consider the OGD1 card from the Open GraphicsProject.
Big FPGA, and video outputs (2x DVI 1x s-video)http://opengraphics.org/ [opengraphics.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28738817</id>
	<title>Simulation is an important criterion</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247947380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another good reason to use verilog is that you can use the very useful Icarus verilog simulator from http://www.icarus.com/eda/verilog/ - I used it in addition to professional products such as Cadence ncsim or Mentor Modelsim and found that the price/performance ratio of Icarus is extremely good (since it is free and performs well). Naturally the professional products have more bells and whistles, but the versions which are provided for free with FPGA development kits are limited in the size of project they can simulate.</p><p>Note - if you use icarus you will need a free waveform viewer to view the simulation results - I found gtkwave and dinotrace do the job quite well, or see wikipedia for a more comprehensive list.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another good reason to use verilog is that you can use the very useful Icarus verilog simulator from http : //www.icarus.com/eda/verilog/ - I used it in addition to professional products such as Cadence ncsim or Mentor Modelsim and found that the price/performance ratio of Icarus is extremely good ( since it is free and performs well ) .
Naturally the professional products have more bells and whistles , but the versions which are provided for free with FPGA development kits are limited in the size of project they can simulate.Note - if you use icarus you will need a free waveform viewer to view the simulation results - I found gtkwave and dinotrace do the job quite well , or see wikipedia for a more comprehensive list .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another good reason to use verilog is that you can use the very useful Icarus verilog simulator from http://www.icarus.com/eda/verilog/ - I used it in addition to professional products such as Cadence ncsim or Mentor Modelsim and found that the price/performance ratio of Icarus is extremely good (since it is free and performs well).
Naturally the professional products have more bells and whistles, but the versions which are provided for free with FPGA development kits are limited in the size of project they can simulate.Note - if you use icarus you will need a free waveform viewer to view the simulation results - I found gtkwave and dinotrace do the job quite well, or see wikipedia for a more comprehensive list.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694895</id>
	<title>Re:Altera's FPGA software</title>
	<author>julesh</author>
	<datestamp>1247602980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yep.  As a newbie a couple of years back I played around with both Altera and Xilinx's software, and found Altera's much more friendly, so I'm now an Altera-all-the-way kind of guy.</p><p>That said, Altera development boards can be a bit pricier than their Xilinx equivalents, mainly because they're harder to find (I don't know why, but perhaps Altera attracts a more advanced designer who doesn't need starter kits, etc, while Xilinx tends to attract the newbies?). That said, <a href="http://parts.digikey.co.uk/1/1/785988-cyclone-ii-starter-kit-ep2c20n-dk-cycii-2c20n.html" title="digikey.co.uk">this board</a> [digikey.co.uk] for around half the poster's budget limit boasts a last-gen (65nm) FPGA with about 20K logic elements, which will implement moderately complex designs, including a wide variety of microprocessor designs (the smallest I've seen uses less than 300LEs, so theoretically you could get about 70 of them on there...!), many of which can be run at ~50MHz on this hardware.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep .
As a newbie a couple of years back I played around with both Altera and Xilinx 's software , and found Altera 's much more friendly , so I 'm now an Altera-all-the-way kind of guy.That said , Altera development boards can be a bit pricier than their Xilinx equivalents , mainly because they 're harder to find ( I do n't know why , but perhaps Altera attracts a more advanced designer who does n't need starter kits , etc , while Xilinx tends to attract the newbies ? ) .
That said , this board [ digikey.co.uk ] for around half the poster 's budget limit boasts a last-gen ( 65nm ) FPGA with about 20K logic elements , which will implement moderately complex designs , including a wide variety of microprocessor designs ( the smallest I 've seen uses less than 300LEs , so theoretically you could get about 70 of them on there... !
) , many of which can be run at ~ 50MHz on this hardware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.
As a newbie a couple of years back I played around with both Altera and Xilinx's software, and found Altera's much more friendly, so I'm now an Altera-all-the-way kind of guy.That said, Altera development boards can be a bit pricier than their Xilinx equivalents, mainly because they're harder to find (I don't know why, but perhaps Altera attracts a more advanced designer who doesn't need starter kits, etc, while Xilinx tends to attract the newbies?).
That said, this board [digikey.co.uk] for around half the poster's budget limit boasts a last-gen (65nm) FPGA with about 20K logic elements, which will implement moderately complex designs, including a wide variety of microprocessor designs (the smallest I've seen uses less than 300LEs, so theoretically you could get about 70 of them on there...!
), many of which can be run at ~50MHz on this hardware.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693695</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693695</id>
	<title>Altera's FPGA software</title>
	<author>ronaldg</author>
	<datestamp>1247597340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Another FPGA manufacturer is Altera. Their software is called" Quartus II" and is available for free on their website.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Another FPGA manufacturer is Altera .
Their software is called " Quartus II " and is available for free on their website .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another FPGA manufacturer is Altera.
Their software is called" Quartus II" and is available for free on their website.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692937</id>
	<title>Xilinx Spartan 3AN or Altera Cyclone III</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247594400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Xilinx:  <a href="http://www.xilinx.com/products/devkits/HW-SPAR3AN-SK-UNI-G.htm" title="xilinx.com">http://www.xilinx.com/products/devkits/HW-SPAR3AN-SK-UNI-G.htm</a> [xilinx.com]</p><p>Altera: <a href="http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc3-starter.html" title="altera.com">http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc3-starter.html</a> [altera.com]</p><p>Both are very mainline FPGAs, both have full devkits, references designs, include the tools, linux support on Xilinx at least (not sure on Altera), and are both at your price point.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Xilinx : http : //www.xilinx.com/products/devkits/HW-SPAR3AN-SK-UNI-G.htm [ xilinx.com ] Altera : http : //www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc3-starter.html [ altera.com ] Both are very mainline FPGAs , both have full devkits , references designs , include the tools , linux support on Xilinx at least ( not sure on Altera ) , and are both at your price point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Xilinx:  http://www.xilinx.com/products/devkits/HW-SPAR3AN-SK-UNI-G.htm [xilinx.com]Altera: http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc3-starter.html [altera.com]Both are very mainline FPGAs, both have full devkits, references designs, include the tools, linux support on Xilinx at least (not sure on Altera), and are both at your price point.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693181</id>
	<title>Don't buy a board and CtoVerilog.com</title>
	<author>fpgaprogrammer</author>
	<datestamp>1247595300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're tired of all the VHDL and Verilog nuances, try CtoVerilog.com</p><p>Learn how to use core generator and a simulator before you even buy a board. you only need a board when you actually want to have hardware.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're tired of all the VHDL and Verilog nuances , try CtoVerilog.comLearn how to use core generator and a simulator before you even buy a board .
you only need a board when you actually want to have hardware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're tired of all the VHDL and Verilog nuances, try CtoVerilog.comLearn how to use core generator and a simulator before you even buy a board.
you only need a board when you actually want to have hardware.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28692913</id>
	<title>I like the Digilent Nexys2</title>
	<author>pem</author>
	<datestamp>1247594280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>digilentinc.com
<p>
I use these at work for general-purpose little widgets.  They are great for all sorts of control/data collection devices.  I think we've bought around 50 or so over the past couple of years.
</p><p>
Unfortunately, they do not support Linux.
</p><p>
There is an FPGA programming solution around for this board which does support linux (search for Nexys2 on comp.arch.fpga), but it does not support the data transfer function.
</p><p>
The data transfer function is very nice (under Windows).  digilent supplies a driver and DLL, and I find it very easy to transfer data using Python.  I do wish they supported Linux, though -- that's all I use at home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>digilentinc.com I use these at work for general-purpose little widgets .
They are great for all sorts of control/data collection devices .
I think we 've bought around 50 or so over the past couple of years .
Unfortunately , they do not support Linux .
There is an FPGA programming solution around for this board which does support linux ( search for Nexys2 on comp.arch.fpga ) , but it does not support the data transfer function .
The data transfer function is very nice ( under Windows ) .
digilent supplies a driver and DLL , and I find it very easy to transfer data using Python .
I do wish they supported Linux , though -- that 's all I use at home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>digilentinc.com

I use these at work for general-purpose little widgets.
They are great for all sorts of control/data collection devices.
I think we've bought around 50 or so over the past couple of years.
Unfortunately, they do not support Linux.
There is an FPGA programming solution around for this board which does support linux (search for Nexys2 on comp.arch.fpga), but it does not support the data transfer function.
The data transfer function is very nice (under Windows).
digilent supplies a driver and DLL, and I find it very easy to transfer data using Python.
I do wish they supported Linux, though -- that's all I use at home.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28694333</id>
	<title>Re:What I did - and recommend</title>
	<author>kpainter</author>
	<datestamp>1247600040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>3. Learn the HDL of your choice. Read the books. One warning only: it is NOT a programming language</p></div><p>Agreed.  Here is another tip that I resisted to the very end but turns out to be very useful.  Only change one variable per process.  Think of each process roughly like a D Flip-Flop.  You need a reset, a clock, data in with logic and an output.  You end up with a lot of processes but the chances of having something synthesizable are a whole lot better.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>3 .
Learn the HDL of your choice .
Read the books .
One warning only : it is NOT a programming languageAgreed .
Here is another tip that I resisted to the very end but turns out to be very useful .
Only change one variable per process .
Think of each process roughly like a D Flip-Flop .
You need a reset , a clock , data in with logic and an output .
You end up with a lot of processes but the chances of having something synthesizable are a whole lot better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>3.
Learn the HDL of your choice.
Read the books.
One warning only: it is NOT a programming languageAgreed.
Here is another tip that I resisted to the very end but turns out to be very useful.
Only change one variable per process.
Think of each process roughly like a D Flip-Flop.
You need a reset, a clock, data in with logic and an output.
You end up with a lot of processes but the chances of having something synthesizable are a whole lot better.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693049</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_14_1551210.28693339</id>
	<title>Check out old Xilinx Spartan-3 boards</title>
	<author>scriber</author>
	<datestamp>1247595900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now that Xilinx has released new chips, the old ones are pretty cheap. A Spartan-3A evaluation board is less than US $200. These have VGA, PS/2, RS-232, a character LCD, a rotary encoder, LEDs, switches, and a bunch of extra connectors. The main problems are that the DDR2 RAM is *difficult* to use without a proprietary core, and the FPGA doesn't have access to the USB link.</p><p>Digilent Inc sells Spartan-3E boards for less than US $100. These have an easier-to-use DRAM and provide access to the USB port (though I think the official driver is windows-only, there seem to be solutions for using it on Linux).</p><p>Xilinx's ISE runs natively on Linux (RHEL, last time I checked). With a little searching, it was easy to figure out how to get it to work on Ubuntu, including the USB JTAG interface on the eval boards.</p><p>I haven't found a great book for learning this stuff. Pedroni's \_Circuit Design with VHDL\_ is okay, but it's not particularly deep and doesn't cover the FPGA development process at all. I had to study the Xilinx tutorials to get things working.</p><p>Writing HDL code superficially seems like normal programming, but it's not. Think of it as a way to translate your already-completed design into a form the computer understands. If you don't do the up-front design, it will be hard to fix through refactoring. The simulators just aren't up to the task. Restrict yourself to a single edge of a single clock, and things will be much easier.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now that Xilinx has released new chips , the old ones are pretty cheap .
A Spartan-3A evaluation board is less than US $ 200 .
These have VGA , PS/2 , RS-232 , a character LCD , a rotary encoder , LEDs , switches , and a bunch of extra connectors .
The main problems are that the DDR2 RAM is * difficult * to use without a proprietary core , and the FPGA does n't have access to the USB link.Digilent Inc sells Spartan-3E boards for less than US $ 100 .
These have an easier-to-use DRAM and provide access to the USB port ( though I think the official driver is windows-only , there seem to be solutions for using it on Linux ) .Xilinx 's ISE runs natively on Linux ( RHEL , last time I checked ) .
With a little searching , it was easy to figure out how to get it to work on Ubuntu , including the USB JTAG interface on the eval boards.I have n't found a great book for learning this stuff .
Pedroni 's \ _Circuit Design with VHDL \ _ is okay , but it 's not particularly deep and does n't cover the FPGA development process at all .
I had to study the Xilinx tutorials to get things working.Writing HDL code superficially seems like normal programming , but it 's not .
Think of it as a way to translate your already-completed design into a form the computer understands .
If you do n't do the up-front design , it will be hard to fix through refactoring .
The simulators just are n't up to the task .
Restrict yourself to a single edge of a single clock , and things will be much easier .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now that Xilinx has released new chips, the old ones are pretty cheap.
A Spartan-3A evaluation board is less than US $200.
These have VGA, PS/2, RS-232, a character LCD, a rotary encoder, LEDs, switches, and a bunch of extra connectors.
The main problems are that the DDR2 RAM is *difficult* to use without a proprietary core, and the FPGA doesn't have access to the USB link.Digilent Inc sells Spartan-3E boards for less than US $100.
These have an easier-to-use DRAM and provide access to the USB port (though I think the official driver is windows-only, there seem to be solutions for using it on Linux).Xilinx's ISE runs natively on Linux (RHEL, last time I checked).
With a little searching, it was easy to figure out how to get it to work on Ubuntu, including the USB JTAG interface on the eval boards.I haven't found a great book for learning this stuff.
Pedroni's \_Circuit Design with VHDL\_ is okay, but it's not particularly deep and doesn't cover the FPGA development process at all.
I had to study the Xilinx tutorials to get things working.Writing HDL code superficially seems like normal programming, but it's not.
Think of it as a way to translate your already-completed design into a form the computer understands.
If you don't do the up-front design, it will be hard to fix through refactoring.
The simulators just aren't up to the task.
Restrict yourself to a single edge of a single clock, and things will be much easier.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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