<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_09_0150239</id>
	<title>Is Sat-Nav Destroying Local Knowledge?</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1247165760000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://hughpickens.com/" rel="nofollow">Hugh Pickens</a> writes <i>"Joe Moran writes in the BBC News Magazine that Sat-Nav clearly suits an era in which '<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk\_news/magazine/8133890.stm">map-reading may be going the way of obsolete skills like calligraphy and roof-thatching</a>.' Sat-Nav 'speaks to our contemporary anxieties and preoccupations about the road,' writes Moran. 'More roads and better cars mean we can travel further, and so the risk of getting lost is all the greater.' But do real men use sat-nav?  Moran says that men seem to recoil from being given digital instructions by a woman, and read the satnav woman's pregnant pauses, or her curt phrases like 'make a legal U-turn' and 'recalculating the route', as stubborn or bossy. Still we don't quite trust the electronic voice to get us where we want to go. 'Since before even the arrival of the car, people have worried that maps sever us from real places, render the world untouchable, reduce it to a bare outline of Cartesian lines and intersections,' writes Moran. 'Sat-nav feeds into this long-held fear that the cold-blooded modern world is destroying local knowledge, that roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hugh Pickens writes " Joe Moran writes in the BBC News Magazine that Sat-Nav clearly suits an era in which 'map-reading may be going the way of obsolete skills like calligraphy and roof-thatching .
' Sat-Nav 'speaks to our contemporary anxieties and preoccupations about the road, ' writes Moran .
'More roads and better cars mean we can travel further , and so the risk of getting lost is all the greater .
' But do real men use sat-nav ?
Moran says that men seem to recoil from being given digital instructions by a woman , and read the satnav woman 's pregnant pauses , or her curt phrases like 'make a legal U-turn ' and 'recalculating the route ' , as stubborn or bossy .
Still we do n't quite trust the electronic voice to get us where we want to go .
'Since before even the arrival of the car , people have worried that maps sever us from real places , render the world untouchable , reduce it to a bare outline of Cartesian lines and intersections, ' writes Moran .
'Sat-nav feeds into this long-held fear that the cold-blooded modern world is destroying local knowledge , that roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hugh Pickens writes "Joe Moran writes in the BBC News Magazine that Sat-Nav clearly suits an era in which 'map-reading may be going the way of obsolete skills like calligraphy and roof-thatching.
' Sat-Nav 'speaks to our contemporary anxieties and preoccupations about the road,' writes Moran.
'More roads and better cars mean we can travel further, and so the risk of getting lost is all the greater.
' But do real men use sat-nav?
Moran says that men seem to recoil from being given digital instructions by a woman, and read the satnav woman's pregnant pauses, or her curt phrases like 'make a legal U-turn' and 'recalculating the route', as stubborn or bossy.
Still we don't quite trust the electronic voice to get us where we want to go.
'Since before even the arrival of the car, people have worried that maps sever us from real places, render the world untouchable, reduce it to a bare outline of Cartesian lines and intersections,' writes Moran.
'Sat-nav feeds into this long-held fear that the cold-blooded modern world is destroying local knowledge, that roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636221</id>
	<title>How about memorizing phone numbers?</title>
	<author>HockeyPuck</author>
	<datestamp>1247153100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was growing up not only did we have rotary phones and then touch tone phones, but there was no such thing as "speed dial", so you ended up memorizing all of the phone numbers that you needed to regularly use such as close friends and family.  However, now that I have "Grandma" in the phone's memory, I never actually see her phone number.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was growing up not only did we have rotary phones and then touch tone phones , but there was no such thing as " speed dial " , so you ended up memorizing all of the phone numbers that you needed to regularly use such as close friends and family .
However , now that I have " Grandma " in the phone 's memory , I never actually see her phone number .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was growing up not only did we have rotary phones and then touch tone phones, but there was no such thing as "speed dial", so you ended up memorizing all of the phone numbers that you needed to regularly use such as close friends and family.
However, now that I have "Grandma" in the phone's memory, I never actually see her phone number.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633439</id>
	<title>Re:Map on TomTom</title>
	<author>Winckle</author>
	<datestamp>1247131560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>TomToms will display local amenities as you drive towards them so if you see a petrol station or somewhere to eat you can plan ahead to stop at the next junction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>TomToms will display local amenities as you drive towards them so if you see a petrol station or somewhere to eat you can plan ahead to stop at the next junction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TomToms will display local amenities as you drive towards them so if you see a petrol station or somewhere to eat you can plan ahead to stop at the next junction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633165</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634829</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247146020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unfortunately for your assumption, the United States of America is the third largest country on the planet, behind Canada and the Russian Federation.</p><p>You go back to piddling around in your state at #77; you simply don't understand the logistics of what it would be like to reside in a nation forty times larger than the one you're in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately for your assumption , the United States of America is the third largest country on the planet , behind Canada and the Russian Federation.You go back to piddling around in your state at # 77 ; you simply do n't understand the logistics of what it would be like to reside in a nation forty times larger than the one you 're in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately for your assumption, the United States of America is the third largest country on the planet, behind Canada and the Russian Federation.You go back to piddling around in your state at #77; you simply don't understand the logistics of what it would be like to reside in a nation forty times larger than the one you're in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633979</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28644471</id>
	<title>Maps are still better for some applications</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247144220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with SatNav is that all the devices I've used are only good for giving you directions when you know where you want to go already. They suck horribly at browsing around when you want to look at a map to decide where you want to go, so for now maps win for me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with SatNav is that all the devices I 've used are only good for giving you directions when you know where you want to go already .
They suck horribly at browsing around when you want to look at a map to decide where you want to go , so for now maps win for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with SatNav is that all the devices I've used are only good for giving you directions when you know where you want to go already.
They suck horribly at browsing around when you want to look at a map to decide where you want to go, so for now maps win for me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638015</id>
	<title>Of course techies are going  to favor gadgetry...</title>
	<author>anandamide</author>
	<datestamp>1247160180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Personally, I like maps:</p><p>1) They're fun to read.<br>2) They're reliable. I don't want to worry about batteries, cellphone signals and fragile gadgetry wile I'd driving the back roads of northern Nevada.<br>3) They help me connect with the local landscape. I actually have to *think about where I am*.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally , I like maps : 1 ) They 're fun to read.2 ) They 're reliable .
I do n't want to worry about batteries , cellphone signals and fragile gadgetry wile I 'd driving the back roads of northern Nevada.3 ) They help me connect with the local landscape .
I actually have to * think about where I am * .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally, I like maps:1) They're fun to read.2) They're reliable.
I don't want to worry about batteries, cellphone signals and fragile gadgetry wile I'd driving the back roads of northern Nevada.3) They help me connect with the local landscape.
I actually have to *think about where I am*.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635691</id>
	<title>Re:Soul-less</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1247150880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My phone has a camera and a GPS. I never use its GPS and seldom use its camera.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My phone has a camera and a GPS .
I never use its GPS and seldom use its camera .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My phone has a camera and a GPS.
I never use its GPS and seldom use its camera.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637859</id>
	<title>Re:Real men don't use tools?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247159340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It doesn't destroy local knowledge, it prevents you from accumulating it in the first place. My girlfriend has lived and driven in this town for 2 months, but still can't find her way to the local grocery store without the GPS.</p><p>Can you really call yourself a real man if you *don't* use a hammer to open an egg?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It does n't destroy local knowledge , it prevents you from accumulating it in the first place .
My girlfriend has lived and driven in this town for 2 months , but still ca n't find her way to the local grocery store without the GPS.Can you really call yourself a real man if you * do n't * use a hammer to open an egg ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It doesn't destroy local knowledge, it prevents you from accumulating it in the first place.
My girlfriend has lived and driven in this town for 2 months, but still can't find her way to the local grocery store without the GPS.Can you really call yourself a real man if you *don't* use a hammer to open an egg?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634439</id>
	<title>Re:Map on TomTom</title>
	<author>lisaparratt</author>
	<datestamp>1247142060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Um, have you looked at an <i>actual</i> TomTom? The display shows a simplified 3D view of what you should see in front of you, with the path you should take highlighted. First and foremost, it's invaluable for knowing which particular lane you should be in when there's 5 going off in every which way, and all it's said to you is "Bear right", or when you're at a roundabout with too many exits for it to handle. Secondly, when I've used my GPS on my motorcycle, and when the bluetooth headset failed, all it took was a quick glance at the display - about as much as you'd give your speedo - at each turn to know where I should go. Thirdly, it not only shows you the actual speed you're going at, but what the current speed limit is, and what sort of "safety" cameras are about.</p><p>if anything, it's the *voice* that's distracting and unneccessary, especially given it can often not be heard over road noise/other people in the car/the stereo.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Um , have you looked at an actual TomTom ?
The display shows a simplified 3D view of what you should see in front of you , with the path you should take highlighted .
First and foremost , it 's invaluable for knowing which particular lane you should be in when there 's 5 going off in every which way , and all it 's said to you is " Bear right " , or when you 're at a roundabout with too many exits for it to handle .
Secondly , when I 've used my GPS on my motorcycle , and when the bluetooth headset failed , all it took was a quick glance at the display - about as much as you 'd give your speedo - at each turn to know where I should go .
Thirdly , it not only shows you the actual speed you 're going at , but what the current speed limit is , and what sort of " safety " cameras are about.if anything , it 's the * voice * that 's distracting and unneccessary , especially given it can often not be heard over road noise/other people in the car/the stereo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um, have you looked at an actual TomTom?
The display shows a simplified 3D view of what you should see in front of you, with the path you should take highlighted.
First and foremost, it's invaluable for knowing which particular lane you should be in when there's 5 going off in every which way, and all it's said to you is "Bear right", or when you're at a roundabout with too many exits for it to handle.
Secondly, when I've used my GPS on my motorcycle, and when the bluetooth headset failed, all it took was a quick glance at the display - about as much as you'd give your speedo - at each turn to know where I should go.
Thirdly, it not only shows you the actual speed you're going at, but what the current speed limit is, and what sort of "safety" cameras are about.if anything, it's the *voice* that's distracting and unneccessary, especially given it can often not be heard over road noise/other people in the car/the stereo.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633165</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633277</id>
	<title>Real human directions</title>
	<author>Rennt</author>
	<datestamp>1247172540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This isn't just satnav. I don't know many people who can remember how they got somewhere just after they drove with somebody dictating directions. My theory is that "left here... second right..." kind of directions turns off (or reduces the need for) the area of the brain that would normally be tracking where you actually are in relation to where you are actually going.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't just satnav .
I do n't know many people who can remember how they got somewhere just after they drove with somebody dictating directions .
My theory is that " left here... second right... " kind of directions turns off ( or reduces the need for ) the area of the brain that would normally be tracking where you actually are in relation to where you are actually going .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't just satnav.
I don't know many people who can remember how they got somewhere just after they drove with somebody dictating directions.
My theory is that "left here... second right..." kind of directions turns off (or reduces the need for) the area of the brain that would normally be tracking where you actually are in relation to where you are actually going.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635445</id>
	<title>Sat Nav is bad if it is all you know...</title>
	<author>gwn</author>
	<datestamp>1247149740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a teacher years ago who when asked why we had to learn to do math manually instead of just using our calculators replied "what happens when your battery dies in the calculator? Do you put your life on hold?"</p><p>I agree with him.  For all those folks who abdicate everything to devices and computers, they give up control of their lives.  I just recently went on a road trip with a PHD and she relies on a satnav device.  It was entertaining and reasonably functional, but it wasn't perfect.  No we didn't drive over the cliff or any of the other fun stories that have been shared about when these devices go bad.  We did however end up have a few interesting moments when the device said to do something and of course that wasn't possible.  "Turn left here!" into the concrete wall?</p><p>Not that this will happen, but what if the US military degrades the accuracy of the system these devices depends on?  It was done in Desert Storm.  What if funding disappears.  What if a solar flare takes out a handful of the satellites?  What if a corporation or government agency wants to manipulate the data on the device in order to manipulate you?  What if...  Well for me nothing changes since I have chosen to retain the processing power for these and thousands of other functions between my ears.  For my kids I hope nothing will change since I am a hard-ass and demand they use their brains for navigation or they don't drive my vehicles.</p><p>From a larger society standpoint there will always be people who chose to relinquish control and responsibility for many aspects of their lives, look at voting turnout rates.  There will also be people who tenaciously hold onto control of their lives... and I suspect, get to live them more fully.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a teacher years ago who when asked why we had to learn to do math manually instead of just using our calculators replied " what happens when your battery dies in the calculator ?
Do you put your life on hold ?
" I agree with him .
For all those folks who abdicate everything to devices and computers , they give up control of their lives .
I just recently went on a road trip with a PHD and she relies on a satnav device .
It was entertaining and reasonably functional , but it was n't perfect .
No we did n't drive over the cliff or any of the other fun stories that have been shared about when these devices go bad .
We did however end up have a few interesting moments when the device said to do something and of course that was n't possible .
" Turn left here !
" into the concrete wall ? Not that this will happen , but what if the US military degrades the accuracy of the system these devices depends on ?
It was done in Desert Storm .
What if funding disappears .
What if a solar flare takes out a handful of the satellites ?
What if a corporation or government agency wants to manipulate the data on the device in order to manipulate you ?
What if... Well for me nothing changes since I have chosen to retain the processing power for these and thousands of other functions between my ears .
For my kids I hope nothing will change since I am a hard-ass and demand they use their brains for navigation or they do n't drive my vehicles.From a larger society standpoint there will always be people who chose to relinquish control and responsibility for many aspects of their lives , look at voting turnout rates .
There will also be people who tenaciously hold onto control of their lives... and I suspect , get to live them more fully .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a teacher years ago who when asked why we had to learn to do math manually instead of just using our calculators replied "what happens when your battery dies in the calculator?
Do you put your life on hold?
"I agree with him.
For all those folks who abdicate everything to devices and computers, they give up control of their lives.
I just recently went on a road trip with a PHD and she relies on a satnav device.
It was entertaining and reasonably functional, but it wasn't perfect.
No we didn't drive over the cliff or any of the other fun stories that have been shared about when these devices go bad.
We did however end up have a few interesting moments when the device said to do something and of course that wasn't possible.
"Turn left here!
" into the concrete wall?Not that this will happen, but what if the US military degrades the accuracy of the system these devices depends on?
It was done in Desert Storm.
What if funding disappears.
What if a solar flare takes out a handful of the satellites?
What if a corporation or government agency wants to manipulate the data on the device in order to manipulate you?
What if...  Well for me nothing changes since I have chosen to retain the processing power for these and thousands of other functions between my ears.
For my kids I hope nothing will change since I am a hard-ass and demand they use their brains for navigation or they don't drive my vehicles.From a larger society standpoint there will always be people who chose to relinquish control and responsibility for many aspects of their lives, look at voting turnout rates.
There will also be people who tenaciously hold onto control of their lives... and I suspect, get to live them more fully.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635521</id>
	<title>Buy the Land Behind Walmart</title>
	<author>cellurl</author>
	<datestamp>1247150160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The land behind Walmart will soon become valuable. <br> <br>
After you buy at walmart, ask your netbook where you can buy some fresh berries, and it will show a 50\% off coupon for the next 10 minutes along with reviews so you know the mechant is real and open for biz. Then you will discover hes located in a iff-ey neighborhood behind your Walmart, but its daytime so what the heck, you give it a go. If it went ok, you write a review which is published in 1 minute and others join you. Its a beautiful migration out of the big stores, a risky endeavour, but an exciting hunting expedition. <br> <br>

This will jumpstart mom and pops and give the feds new people to tax.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-).<br> <br>

BTW, I use a <a href="http://www.gpscruise.com/" title="gpscruise.com" rel="nofollow">Speederaser</a> [gpscruise.com] to avoid speeding. I also contribute to an open source speed limit database called <a href="http://www.wikispeedia.org/" title="wikispeedia.org" rel="nofollow">Wikispeedia.</a> [wikispeedia.org] I hope you will contribute there.<br> <br>

-jim<br> <br>

<a href="http://gpscruise1.blogspot.com/" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Blog</a> [blogspot.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The land behind Walmart will soon become valuable .
After you buy at walmart , ask your netbook where you can buy some fresh berries , and it will show a 50 \ % off coupon for the next 10 minutes along with reviews so you know the mechant is real and open for biz .
Then you will discover hes located in a iff-ey neighborhood behind your Walmart , but its daytime so what the heck , you give it a go .
If it went ok , you write a review which is published in 1 minute and others join you .
Its a beautiful migration out of the big stores , a risky endeavour , but an exciting hunting expedition .
This will jumpstart mom and pops and give the feds new people to tax .
; - ) . BTW , I use a Speederaser [ gpscruise.com ] to avoid speeding .
I also contribute to an open source speed limit database called Wikispeedia .
[ wikispeedia.org ] I hope you will contribute there .
-jim Blog [ blogspot.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The land behind Walmart will soon become valuable.
After you buy at walmart, ask your netbook where you can buy some fresh berries, and it will show a 50\% off coupon for the next 10 minutes along with reviews so you know the mechant is real and open for biz.
Then you will discover hes located in a iff-ey neighborhood behind your Walmart, but its daytime so what the heck, you give it a go.
If it went ok, you write a review which is published in 1 minute and others join you.
Its a beautiful migration out of the big stores, a risky endeavour, but an exciting hunting expedition.
This will jumpstart mom and pops and give the feds new people to tax.
;-). 

BTW, I use a Speederaser [gpscruise.com] to avoid speeding.
I also contribute to an open source speed limit database called Wikispeedia.
[wikispeedia.org] I hope you will contribute there.
-jim 

Blog [blogspot.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634515</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>Jugalator</author>
	<datestamp>1247143020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list. Yes we did lose the ability to recite everybody's number, but we rarely miss it. If we don't have our cell phone we call information, if our satnav breaks we will use google maps on a smart phone.... in the long run its just no big deal.</p></div><p>It's also easy to feel that technology like this is making as more "stupid", having less to think about, but in reality, we're fed with more information in our daily lives than ever before in the modern age. So technology like this to make our minds rest at times may actually benefit us, in my opinion.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list .
Yes we did lose the ability to recite everybody 's number , but we rarely miss it .
If we do n't have our cell phone we call information , if our satnav breaks we will use google maps on a smart phone.... in the long run its just no big deal.It 's also easy to feel that technology like this is making as more " stupid " , having less to think about , but in reality , we 're fed with more information in our daily lives than ever before in the modern age .
So technology like this to make our minds rest at times may actually benefit us , in my opinion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list.
Yes we did lose the ability to recite everybody's number, but we rarely miss it.
If we don't have our cell phone we call information, if our satnav breaks we will use google maps on a smart phone.... in the long run its just no big deal.It's also easy to feel that technology like this is making as more "stupid", having less to think about, but in reality, we're fed with more information in our daily lives than ever before in the modern age.
So technology like this to make our minds rest at times may actually benefit us, in my opinion.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634449</id>
	<title>Re:We use them because they're better</title>
	<author>Registered Coward v2</author>
	<datestamp>1247142180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Satnav is faster, more reliable and easier to use than paper maps.
</p><p>
That's why they are popular. It's also possible to update a Satnav with new data if roads change, or new ones are built. Most people's car-atlases are obsolete if more than a few years old - meaning we have to replace them regularly to keep up-to-date. While the cost is small, it adds up with a new atlas every couple of years.
</p></div><p>Every buy a satnav update?  They aren't cheap either, and satnav gets out of date as quickly as a paper map.</p><p>The advantage of paper maps is it's easy to figure out what's coming, plan a stop, etc; especially on  along trip.  While you can do that with satnav, it's easier on a paper map to figure out what lies ahead.</p><p>Both technologies have pros and cons, and actually work quite well together.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Satnav is faster , more reliable and easier to use than paper maps .
That 's why they are popular .
It 's also possible to update a Satnav with new data if roads change , or new ones are built .
Most people 's car-atlases are obsolete if more than a few years old - meaning we have to replace them regularly to keep up-to-date .
While the cost is small , it adds up with a new atlas every couple of years .
Every buy a satnav update ?
They are n't cheap either , and satnav gets out of date as quickly as a paper map.The advantage of paper maps is it 's easy to figure out what 's coming , plan a stop , etc ; especially on along trip .
While you can do that with satnav , it 's easier on a paper map to figure out what lies ahead.Both technologies have pros and cons , and actually work quite well together .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Satnav is faster, more reliable and easier to use than paper maps.
That's why they are popular.
It's also possible to update a Satnav with new data if roads change, or new ones are built.
Most people's car-atlases are obsolete if more than a few years old - meaning we have to replace them regularly to keep up-to-date.
While the cost is small, it adds up with a new atlas every couple of years.
Every buy a satnav update?
They aren't cheap either, and satnav gets out of date as quickly as a paper map.The advantage of paper maps is it's easy to figure out what's coming, plan a stop, etc; especially on  along trip.
While you can do that with satnav, it's easier on a paper map to figure out what lies ahead.Both technologies have pros and cons, and actually work quite well together.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634525</id>
	<title>Utter bollocks!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247143080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a GPS and more less from the day I passed my test about 5 years ago ( when I was about 32! ), but I still love turning it off once in a while and just wandering along roads to see what's at the end. I do the same on my push bike, I take a GPS, but only use it if I get lost. I also love just banging a point on the GPS map, say within 150 miles and just driving there, then wandering around the local area.</p><p>What is this attitude that technology is all or nothing, it's not. It can be used as much or as little as you wish, it can coexist with you, help or hinder. It's a tool, like any tool it can used as you see fit, when you see fit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a GPS and more less from the day I passed my test about 5 years ago ( when I was about 32 !
) , but I still love turning it off once in a while and just wandering along roads to see what 's at the end .
I do the same on my push bike , I take a GPS , but only use it if I get lost .
I also love just banging a point on the GPS map , say within 150 miles and just driving there , then wandering around the local area.What is this attitude that technology is all or nothing , it 's not .
It can be used as much or as little as you wish , it can coexist with you , help or hinder .
It 's a tool , like any tool it can used as you see fit , when you see fit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a GPS and more less from the day I passed my test about 5 years ago ( when I was about 32!
), but I still love turning it off once in a while and just wandering along roads to see what's at the end.
I do the same on my push bike, I take a GPS, but only use it if I get lost.
I also love just banging a point on the GPS map, say within 150 miles and just driving there, then wandering around the local area.What is this attitude that technology is all or nothing, it's not.
It can be used as much or as little as you wish, it can coexist with you, help or hinder.
It's a tool, like any tool it can used as you see fit, when you see fit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28641623</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, which planet Earth? -sextants still in u</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1247131140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just for reference, there is no GPS approved for guiding any aircraft in to land.  They are only used inroute far inbetween destinations.</p><p>For assisted landings there are several other methods used, all of which require local support at the airport and the use of things such as laser altimeters and such.  When an assisted landing occurs, you could turn off the GPS signal any time during it and not notice the difference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just for reference , there is no GPS approved for guiding any aircraft in to land .
They are only used inroute far inbetween destinations.For assisted landings there are several other methods used , all of which require local support at the airport and the use of things such as laser altimeters and such .
When an assisted landing occurs , you could turn off the GPS signal any time during it and not notice the difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just for reference, there is no GPS approved for guiding any aircraft in to land.
They are only used inroute far inbetween destinations.For assisted landings there are several other methods used, all of which require local support at the airport and the use of things such as laser altimeters and such.
When an assisted landing occurs, you could turn off the GPS signal any time during it and not notice the difference.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633205</id>
	<title>Subject</title>
	<author>rolfwind</author>
	<datestamp>1247171580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>But do real men use sat-nav?</p></div></blockquote><p>As opposed to fake men?  No, real men read articles telling them what real men do, because they can't think for themselves, don't want to take a gamble and need to mimic the pack.</p><blockquote><div><p>Moran says that men seem to recoil from being given digital instructions by a woman, and read the satnav woman's pregnant pauses, or her curt phrases like 'make a legal U-turn' and 'recalculating the route', as stubborn or bossy.</p></div></blockquote><p>I can see this, my father argues with the voice in particular, but I don't really care.  Maybe it's because I know how computers work and don't really buy into the "personality" of the device and that the voice samples invoked could just as easily be from a guy, or just don't have the macho hang-up, or whatever.  But even he went out and bought a GPS after I gave my mom one, because he found it useful.  Even though he knew every area he was driving, he didn't know every nook and cranny, so the business trips are made much easier when you dont spend 10 minutes a day getting directions to some arcane street in the area, whether meeting people at some restaurant or going to a business prospect's house (and frustrating them with calls on how to get there) and being 1/2 hour late or nearly getting into an accident as you ogle street signs instead of paying attention to the road.</p><blockquote><div><p>Still we don't quite trust the electronic voice to get us where we want to go.</p></div></blockquote><p>In some ways, you would be stupid to do that.  Not getting there, but having faith that it's the best route.  GPS is great for finding streets in unfamiliar cities, but it's stupid in places you know or longer routes.  Longer routes, you should always check a map, to see that it's the best place - I swear Garmins somehow just take the first route that completes the journey without comparing them - it once made me travel 60 miles extra on a 300 mile journey when a better highway was just nearby the starting point in the first place.  GPS devices sometimes just don't know or calculate real world conditions eithers - like construction, or speed of a road, or # of stoplights or factor in things like proximity of a city and rushhour and decide to take the rural route around it instead.</p><p>Even on local driving, it really does stupid things.  On a road on route to my house, inexplicably, where I would have to go straight for 1 more mile, and then turn left toward my home at intersection X (no more turns after that, home 3 miles straight ahead), with a 1 stop light in between my current spot and intersection X, it wants to veer off right.  With a plethora of stop signs, turns, and lights.  Just to arrive at intersection X again and resume the normal route.  With or without the lights/signs, stupid routing either way anyone looks at it.  Curiously, it never goes this time-consuming route when going the reverse direction.</p><p>GPS is great at finding unfamiliar things, but not optimized routing knowledge that a local or experience driver has yet.</p><p>Back when Garmin announced it's as-yet-to-be-delivered nuvifone, as a response to iPhone presumably, I wondered whether they were missing a big opportunity to sell a Garmin app to iPhone users and at the same time, with the guaranteed 2-way internet connection, collect data on the routes people (locals) really drive to improve their GPS routing systems in a major way over their competitors.  But they saw Google Maps on it as competition and I guess the automatic reflex was too ingrained (too bad, Google's routing is really excellent in my limited experience, but the app doesn't seem to be useful for driving, is it?)</p><blockquote><div><p>'Since before even the arrival of the car, people have worried that maps sever us from real places, render the world untouchable, reduce it to a bare outline of Cartesian lines and intersections,' writes Moran. 'Sat-nav feeds into this long-held fear that the cold-blooded modern world is destroying local knowledge, that roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them.'"</p></div></blockquote><p>Bleh.  How stupid.  What will destroy local knowledge 1000x faster is a generation of kids hooked videogames inside for 8 hours a day, never venturing outdoors to play.  GPS is a tool to improve people's lives.  Digitize maps aren't going to destroy anything but the annoyance of getting lost.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But do real men use sat-nav ? As opposed to fake men ?
No , real men read articles telling them what real men do , because they ca n't think for themselves , do n't want to take a gamble and need to mimic the pack.Moran says that men seem to recoil from being given digital instructions by a woman , and read the satnav woman 's pregnant pauses , or her curt phrases like 'make a legal U-turn ' and 'recalculating the route ' , as stubborn or bossy.I can see this , my father argues with the voice in particular , but I do n't really care .
Maybe it 's because I know how computers work and do n't really buy into the " personality " of the device and that the voice samples invoked could just as easily be from a guy , or just do n't have the macho hang-up , or whatever .
But even he went out and bought a GPS after I gave my mom one , because he found it useful .
Even though he knew every area he was driving , he did n't know every nook and cranny , so the business trips are made much easier when you dont spend 10 minutes a day getting directions to some arcane street in the area , whether meeting people at some restaurant or going to a business prospect 's house ( and frustrating them with calls on how to get there ) and being 1/2 hour late or nearly getting into an accident as you ogle street signs instead of paying attention to the road.Still we do n't quite trust the electronic voice to get us where we want to go.In some ways , you would be stupid to do that .
Not getting there , but having faith that it 's the best route .
GPS is great for finding streets in unfamiliar cities , but it 's stupid in places you know or longer routes .
Longer routes , you should always check a map , to see that it 's the best place - I swear Garmins somehow just take the first route that completes the journey without comparing them - it once made me travel 60 miles extra on a 300 mile journey when a better highway was just nearby the starting point in the first place .
GPS devices sometimes just do n't know or calculate real world conditions eithers - like construction , or speed of a road , or # of stoplights or factor in things like proximity of a city and rushhour and decide to take the rural route around it instead.Even on local driving , it really does stupid things .
On a road on route to my house , inexplicably , where I would have to go straight for 1 more mile , and then turn left toward my home at intersection X ( no more turns after that , home 3 miles straight ahead ) , with a 1 stop light in between my current spot and intersection X , it wants to veer off right .
With a plethora of stop signs , turns , and lights .
Just to arrive at intersection X again and resume the normal route .
With or without the lights/signs , stupid routing either way anyone looks at it .
Curiously , it never goes this time-consuming route when going the reverse direction.GPS is great at finding unfamiliar things , but not optimized routing knowledge that a local or experience driver has yet.Back when Garmin announced it 's as-yet-to-be-delivered nuvifone , as a response to iPhone presumably , I wondered whether they were missing a big opportunity to sell a Garmin app to iPhone users and at the same time , with the guaranteed 2-way internet connection , collect data on the routes people ( locals ) really drive to improve their GPS routing systems in a major way over their competitors .
But they saw Google Maps on it as competition and I guess the automatic reflex was too ingrained ( too bad , Google 's routing is really excellent in my limited experience , but the app does n't seem to be useful for driving , is it ?
) 'Since before even the arrival of the car , people have worried that maps sever us from real places , render the world untouchable , reduce it to a bare outline of Cartesian lines and intersections, ' writes Moran .
'Sat-nav feeds into this long-held fear that the cold-blooded modern world is destroying local knowledge , that roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them. ' " Bleh .
How stupid .
What will destroy local knowledge 1000x faster is a generation of kids hooked videogames inside for 8 hours a day , never venturing outdoors to play .
GPS is a tool to improve people 's lives .
Digitize maps are n't going to destroy anything but the annoyance of getting lost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But do real men use sat-nav?As opposed to fake men?
No, real men read articles telling them what real men do, because they can't think for themselves, don't want to take a gamble and need to mimic the pack.Moran says that men seem to recoil from being given digital instructions by a woman, and read the satnav woman's pregnant pauses, or her curt phrases like 'make a legal U-turn' and 'recalculating the route', as stubborn or bossy.I can see this, my father argues with the voice in particular, but I don't really care.
Maybe it's because I know how computers work and don't really buy into the "personality" of the device and that the voice samples invoked could just as easily be from a guy, or just don't have the macho hang-up, or whatever.
But even he went out and bought a GPS after I gave my mom one, because he found it useful.
Even though he knew every area he was driving, he didn't know every nook and cranny, so the business trips are made much easier when you dont spend 10 minutes a day getting directions to some arcane street in the area, whether meeting people at some restaurant or going to a business prospect's house (and frustrating them with calls on how to get there) and being 1/2 hour late or nearly getting into an accident as you ogle street signs instead of paying attention to the road.Still we don't quite trust the electronic voice to get us where we want to go.In some ways, you would be stupid to do that.
Not getting there, but having faith that it's the best route.
GPS is great for finding streets in unfamiliar cities, but it's stupid in places you know or longer routes.
Longer routes, you should always check a map, to see that it's the best place - I swear Garmins somehow just take the first route that completes the journey without comparing them - it once made me travel 60 miles extra on a 300 mile journey when a better highway was just nearby the starting point in the first place.
GPS devices sometimes just don't know or calculate real world conditions eithers - like construction, or speed of a road, or # of stoplights or factor in things like proximity of a city and rushhour and decide to take the rural route around it instead.Even on local driving, it really does stupid things.
On a road on route to my house, inexplicably, where I would have to go straight for 1 more mile, and then turn left toward my home at intersection X (no more turns after that, home 3 miles straight ahead), with a 1 stop light in between my current spot and intersection X, it wants to veer off right.
With a plethora of stop signs, turns, and lights.
Just to arrive at intersection X again and resume the normal route.
With or without the lights/signs, stupid routing either way anyone looks at it.
Curiously, it never goes this time-consuming route when going the reverse direction.GPS is great at finding unfamiliar things, but not optimized routing knowledge that a local or experience driver has yet.Back when Garmin announced it's as-yet-to-be-delivered nuvifone, as a response to iPhone presumably, I wondered whether they were missing a big opportunity to sell a Garmin app to iPhone users and at the same time, with the guaranteed 2-way internet connection, collect data on the routes people (locals) really drive to improve their GPS routing systems in a major way over their competitors.
But they saw Google Maps on it as competition and I guess the automatic reflex was too ingrained (too bad, Google's routing is really excellent in my limited experience, but the app doesn't seem to be useful for driving, is it?
)'Since before even the arrival of the car, people have worried that maps sever us from real places, render the world untouchable, reduce it to a bare outline of Cartesian lines and intersections,' writes Moran.
'Sat-nav feeds into this long-held fear that the cold-blooded modern world is destroying local knowledge, that roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them.'"Bleh.
How stupid.
What will destroy local knowledge 1000x faster is a generation of kids hooked videogames inside for 8 hours a day, never venturing outdoors to play.
GPS is a tool to improve people's lives.
Digitize maps aren't going to destroy anything but the annoyance of getting lost.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634267</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>pbhj</author>
	<datestamp>1247139840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But I wouldn't call any parent that got their kids to read a lot a bad one, would you?</p></div><p>No. But letting a child just read \_all\_ the time and not pay attention to their local environment is also not the best parenting. If you just sit and read all day then your parents need to get you out and about a bit and give you some exercise and interaction with people and life in general.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But I would n't call any parent that got their kids to read a lot a bad one , would you ? No .
But letting a child just read \ _all \ _ the time and not pay attention to their local environment is also not the best parenting .
If you just sit and read all day then your parents need to get you out and about a bit and give you some exercise and interaction with people and life in general .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But I wouldn't call any parent that got their kids to read a lot a bad one, would you?No.
But letting a child just read \_all\_ the time and not pay attention to their local environment is also not the best parenting.
If you just sit and read all day then your parents need to get you out and about a bit and give you some exercise and interaction with people and life in general.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633489</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28648659</id>
	<title>Re:Agree to Disagree</title>
	<author>jam244</author>
	<datestamp>1247235960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007...</p></div><p>"In<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.5 miles, such as, take a left.  South Africa and Iraq."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007... " In .5 miles , such as , take a left .
South Africa and Iraq .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007..."In .5 miles, such as, take a left.
South Africa and Iraq.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633097</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28641369</id>
	<title>Re:We use them because they're better</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1247173140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GPS isn't a full replacement for maps yet. I have sat in a car looking at a road closed barrier and the road beyond it busted up with weeds and small trees growing through the cracks and holes as the GPS calmly informed me that I should proceed 2 miles then turn left. Uhm, yeah, no problem!</p><p>Updates are possible, but those trees didn't grow there overnight, obviously it didn't happen.</p><p>In a built up urban area, GPS will frequently begin calling out turns seemingly at random, with half of them actually being illegal and dangerous (due to one way streets). Great!</p><p>I'm guessing that the multi-path reflections from all of the buildings throw it off. The only solution I can think of for that would be adding connections into the speedometer and a compass so it could sanity check itself with dead reckoning, but that would significantly increase the cost and eliminate portability.</p><p>It's not useless, but it's not going to get you where you're going reliably from start to finish.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GPS is n't a full replacement for maps yet .
I have sat in a car looking at a road closed barrier and the road beyond it busted up with weeds and small trees growing through the cracks and holes as the GPS calmly informed me that I should proceed 2 miles then turn left .
Uhm , yeah , no problem ! Updates are possible , but those trees did n't grow there overnight , obviously it did n't happen.In a built up urban area , GPS will frequently begin calling out turns seemingly at random , with half of them actually being illegal and dangerous ( due to one way streets ) .
Great ! I 'm guessing that the multi-path reflections from all of the buildings throw it off .
The only solution I can think of for that would be adding connections into the speedometer and a compass so it could sanity check itself with dead reckoning , but that would significantly increase the cost and eliminate portability.It 's not useless , but it 's not going to get you where you 're going reliably from start to finish .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GPS isn't a full replacement for maps yet.
I have sat in a car looking at a road closed barrier and the road beyond it busted up with weeds and small trees growing through the cracks and holes as the GPS calmly informed me that I should proceed 2 miles then turn left.
Uhm, yeah, no problem!Updates are possible, but those trees didn't grow there overnight, obviously it didn't happen.In a built up urban area, GPS will frequently begin calling out turns seemingly at random, with half of them actually being illegal and dangerous (due to one way streets).
Great!I'm guessing that the multi-path reflections from all of the buildings throw it off.
The only solution I can think of for that would be adding connections into the speedometer and a compass so it could sanity check itself with dead reckoning, but that would significantly increase the cost and eliminate portability.It's not useless, but it's not going to get you where you're going reliably from start to finish.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28644843</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247147160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But how far does a typical American travel? How often do you leave your own state? The fact that the USA is big is, in itself, irrelevant. I live in Europe, and that's big too, but of no relevance to how far I typically travel.</p><p>In-car TV does rather reinforce stereotypes. What on earth is so vital about TV that you can't be away from it for a few hours?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But how far does a typical American travel ?
How often do you leave your own state ?
The fact that the USA is big is , in itself , irrelevant .
I live in Europe , and that 's big too , but of no relevance to how far I typically travel.In-car TV does rather reinforce stereotypes .
What on earth is so vital about TV that you ca n't be away from it for a few hours ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But how far does a typical American travel?
How often do you leave your own state?
The fact that the USA is big is, in itself, irrelevant.
I live in Europe, and that's big too, but of no relevance to how far I typically travel.In-car TV does rather reinforce stereotypes.
What on earth is so vital about TV that you can't be away from it for a few hours?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634829</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635307</id>
	<title>Re:OpenStreetMap the future for local knowledge</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247149020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>something to keep in mind, some of the map data used by the likes of google maps and so on isnt always just buggy. The map information providers intentionally add or tweak certain things in them to add something which is not there for the purposes of tracking who is using their own data</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>something to keep in mind , some of the map data used by the likes of google maps and so on isnt always just buggy .
The map information providers intentionally add or tweak certain things in them to add something which is not there for the purposes of tracking who is using their own data</tokentext>
<sentencetext>something to keep in mind, some of the map data used by the likes of google maps and so on isnt always just buggy.
The map information providers intentionally add or tweak certain things in them to add something which is not there for the purposes of tracking who is using their own data</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633743</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636831</id>
	<title>Re:Is Sat-Nav Destroying Local Knowledge?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247155020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>think your missing the points, its not about the female voice telling you where to go, its about you having the knowledge and sense of direction.</p><p>more and more we are reliant on tech gizmo to relieve our brain of day to day nuances, i think there is something to be said about relying on ones own skills.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>think your missing the points , its not about the female voice telling you where to go , its about you having the knowledge and sense of direction.more and more we are reliant on tech gizmo to relieve our brain of day to day nuances , i think there is something to be said about relying on ones own skills .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>think your missing the points, its not about the female voice telling you where to go, its about you having the knowledge and sense of direction.more and more we are reliant on tech gizmo to relieve our brain of day to day nuances, i think there is something to be said about relying on ones own skills.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633119</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635195</id>
	<title>Re:We use them because they're better</title>
	<author>mvdwege</author>
	<datestamp>1247148420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The <em>nice</em> thing about a paper map is <strong>size</strong>. If you are suddenly confronted with new data, like a new road, or construction obstructing your route, a look at the map can give you a nice general idea on how to navigate, because you can see your current position and your goal in one look.</p><p>However, there's two downsides:
</p><ol>
<li>It requires the capability to visualize how the map translates to your 3d surroundings. This is not something everyone can do from the outset, although it is a trainable skill (which reinforces the article's thrust).</li><li>It is worthless in terms of detailed (sub-10m) navigation decisions. So getting on your alternate route may be a pain (although skill in point 1 may help).</li></ol><p>The best compromise, IMO, would be a satnav system fed with detailed topographical data, like the zoning information used in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.nl (take a look at the Netherlands map in Openstreetmap, it is built from this data) or the Ordnance Survey in the UK, displayed on a large screen (10" minimum). That would give you both the good overview of a paper map, <em>and</em> detailed navigation.</p><p>
Mart</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The nice thing about a paper map is size .
If you are suddenly confronted with new data , like a new road , or construction obstructing your route , a look at the map can give you a nice general idea on how to navigate , because you can see your current position and your goal in one look.However , there 's two downsides : It requires the capability to visualize how the map translates to your 3d surroundings .
This is not something everyone can do from the outset , although it is a trainable skill ( which reinforces the article 's thrust ) .It is worthless in terms of detailed ( sub-10m ) navigation decisions .
So getting on your alternate route may be a pain ( although skill in point 1 may help ) .The best compromise , IMO , would be a satnav system fed with detailed topographical data , like the zoning information used in .nl ( take a look at the Netherlands map in Openstreetmap , it is built from this data ) or the Ordnance Survey in the UK , displayed on a large screen ( 10 " minimum ) .
That would give you both the good overview of a paper map , and detailed navigation .
Mart</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The nice thing about a paper map is size.
If you are suddenly confronted with new data, like a new road, or construction obstructing your route, a look at the map can give you a nice general idea on how to navigate, because you can see your current position and your goal in one look.However, there's two downsides:

It requires the capability to visualize how the map translates to your 3d surroundings.
This is not something everyone can do from the outset, although it is a trainable skill (which reinforces the article's thrust).It is worthless in terms of detailed (sub-10m) navigation decisions.
So getting on your alternate route may be a pain (although skill in point 1 may help).The best compromise, IMO, would be a satnav system fed with detailed topographical data, like the zoning information used in .nl (take a look at the Netherlands map in Openstreetmap, it is built from this data) or the Ordnance Survey in the UK, displayed on a large screen (10" minimum).
That would give you both the good overview of a paper map, and detailed navigation.
Mart</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633229</id>
	<title>We use them because they're better</title>
	<author>petes\_PoV</author>
	<datestamp>1247172000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Satnav is faster, more reliable and easier to use than paper maps.
<p>
That's why they are popular. It's also possible to update a Satnav with new data if roads change, or new ones are built. Most people's car-atlases are obsolete if more than a few years old - meaning we have to replace them regularly to keep up-to-date. While the cost is small, it adds up with a new atlas every couple of years.
</p><p>
The biggest problem with using a map is knowing where you are starting from. It does have a larger "page" than a Satnav screen, which means you get more context at once, but if you are lost it's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you don't know where you are to start with. Similarly, if you're alone in a car, probably the single most dangerous thing you can possibly do while driving is keep looking down to refer to a map on your lap, while trying not to shunt the vehicle in front if it slows down.
</p><p>The point in the article about men disliking taking instructions from a woman's voice shows how out of touch the writer is (and therefore how completely lacking in credibility the whole article is). If you don't like one vioce CHANGE IT. If your budget Satnav only comes with one vioce BUY ANOTHER if it annoys you that much. So far as comparing map-reading with calligraphy or thatching - this is completely spurious: almost no-one in past eras could do either of these crafts, just like very few people have ever really had the skill to read a map (Question: do you know how to tell which way a river flows, by looking at the direction of the contours? Congratulations, you're in the top 1\%)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Satnav is faster , more reliable and easier to use than paper maps .
That 's why they are popular .
It 's also possible to update a Satnav with new data if roads change , or new ones are built .
Most people 's car-atlases are obsolete if more than a few years old - meaning we have to replace them regularly to keep up-to-date .
While the cost is small , it adds up with a new atlas every couple of years .
The biggest problem with using a map is knowing where you are starting from .
It does have a larger " page " than a Satnav screen , which means you get more context at once , but if you are lost it 's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you do n't know where you are to start with .
Similarly , if you 're alone in a car , probably the single most dangerous thing you can possibly do while driving is keep looking down to refer to a map on your lap , while trying not to shunt the vehicle in front if it slows down .
The point in the article about men disliking taking instructions from a woman 's voice shows how out of touch the writer is ( and therefore how completely lacking in credibility the whole article is ) .
If you do n't like one vioce CHANGE IT .
If your budget Satnav only comes with one vioce BUY ANOTHER if it annoys you that much .
So far as comparing map-reading with calligraphy or thatching - this is completely spurious : almost no-one in past eras could do either of these crafts , just like very few people have ever really had the skill to read a map ( Question : do you know how to tell which way a river flows , by looking at the direction of the contours ?
Congratulations , you 're in the top 1 \ % )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Satnav is faster, more reliable and easier to use than paper maps.
That's why they are popular.
It's also possible to update a Satnav with new data if roads change, or new ones are built.
Most people's car-atlases are obsolete if more than a few years old - meaning we have to replace them regularly to keep up-to-date.
While the cost is small, it adds up with a new atlas every couple of years.
The biggest problem with using a map is knowing where you are starting from.
It does have a larger "page" than a Satnav screen, which means you get more context at once, but if you are lost it's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you don't know where you are to start with.
Similarly, if you're alone in a car, probably the single most dangerous thing you can possibly do while driving is keep looking down to refer to a map on your lap, while trying not to shunt the vehicle in front if it slows down.
The point in the article about men disliking taking instructions from a woman's voice shows how out of touch the writer is (and therefore how completely lacking in credibility the whole article is).
If you don't like one vioce CHANGE IT.
If your budget Satnav only comes with one vioce BUY ANOTHER if it annoys you that much.
So far as comparing map-reading with calligraphy or thatching - this is completely spurious: almost no-one in past eras could do either of these crafts, just like very few people have ever really had the skill to read a map (Question: do you know how to tell which way a river flows, by looking at the direction of the contours?
Congratulations, you're in the top 1\%)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634535</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>Jugalator</author>
	<datestamp>1247143200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat. When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like. These days kids just stare at the screen in the headrest in front of them from the time they pull away until they get where they're going. I'll bet half of them couldn't find their way home if you dropped them off two blocks away.</p></div><p>I dunno, I used to read magazines quite a bit when I was a kid and taking long enough trips to take me the time to do so.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat .
When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like .
These days kids just stare at the screen in the headrest in front of them from the time they pull away until they get where they 're going .
I 'll bet half of them could n't find their way home if you dropped them off two blocks away.I dunno , I used to read magazines quite a bit when I was a kid and taking long enough trips to take me the time to do so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat.
When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like.
These days kids just stare at the screen in the headrest in front of them from the time they pull away until they get where they're going.
I'll bet half of them couldn't find their way home if you dropped them off two blocks away.I dunno, I used to read magazines quite a bit when I was a kid and taking long enough trips to take me the time to do so.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633215</id>
	<title>If the map and the terrain do not match...</title>
	<author>yogibaer</author>
	<datestamp>1247171700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>trust the terrain. GPS is very helpful but I am sure everybody else also had strange experiences where the stubborn lady on the dasboard had a very exotic ideas about routes and directions, especially in the less explored countryside. I never fully trust GPS but in the car more than while hiking or being on the boat. In the latter cases I always have another means of verifying my position and one of them is a paper map (and a compass and sometimes even a sextant (boat)). For one navigation (nautic or otherwise) is an interesting hobby (even some math in there too) and it will help you survive the next robotic uprising (or failing GPS satellites)...</htmltext>
<tokenext>trust the terrain .
GPS is very helpful but I am sure everybody else also had strange experiences where the stubborn lady on the dasboard had a very exotic ideas about routes and directions , especially in the less explored countryside .
I never fully trust GPS but in the car more than while hiking or being on the boat .
In the latter cases I always have another means of verifying my position and one of them is a paper map ( and a compass and sometimes even a sextant ( boat ) ) .
For one navigation ( nautic or otherwise ) is an interesting hobby ( even some math in there too ) and it will help you survive the next robotic uprising ( or failing GPS satellites ) .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>trust the terrain.
GPS is very helpful but I am sure everybody else also had strange experiences where the stubborn lady on the dasboard had a very exotic ideas about routes and directions, especially in the less explored countryside.
I never fully trust GPS but in the car more than while hiking or being on the boat.
In the latter cases I always have another means of verifying my position and one of them is a paper map (and a compass and sometimes even a sextant (boat)).
For one navigation (nautic or otherwise) is an interesting hobby (even some math in there too) and it will help you survive the next robotic uprising (or failing GPS satellites)...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633191</id>
	<title>everyone wave their arms in panic!</title>
	<author>timmarhy</author>
	<datestamp>1247171520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>another annoying, pointless "skill" is being killed off by progress. boo hoo.</htmltext>
<tokenext>another annoying , pointless " skill " is being killed off by progress .
boo hoo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>another annoying, pointless "skill" is being killed off by progress.
boo hoo.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636081</id>
	<title>I'm a little offended...</title>
	<author>TerranFury</author>
	<datestamp>1247152500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Am I the only one bothered by the fact that this guy assumes that (1) men don't like/use satnav, and (2) <b>the reason they don't is that it sounds like a woman</b>?  We're not all a bunch of insecure sexists (ok, I'm insecure about plenty of things, but gender isn't one of them).  Maybe Joe has a bad marriage, or had an overbearing mother...   He can always change the voice to Dr. Doom like a friend of mine did if that'll make him feel better. "[deep]You approach a right turn.[/deep]."  He finds it reassuring, like owning a particularly scary breed of dog...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Am I the only one bothered by the fact that this guy assumes that ( 1 ) men do n't like/use satnav , and ( 2 ) the reason they do n't is that it sounds like a woman ?
We 're not all a bunch of insecure sexists ( ok , I 'm insecure about plenty of things , but gender is n't one of them ) .
Maybe Joe has a bad marriage , or had an overbearing mother... He can always change the voice to Dr. Doom like a friend of mine did if that 'll make him feel better .
" [ deep ] You approach a right turn. [ /deep ] .
" He finds it reassuring , like owning a particularly scary breed of dog.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Am I the only one bothered by the fact that this guy assumes that (1) men don't like/use satnav, and (2) the reason they don't is that it sounds like a woman?
We're not all a bunch of insecure sexists (ok, I'm insecure about plenty of things, but gender isn't one of them).
Maybe Joe has a bad marriage, or had an overbearing mother...   He can always change the voice to Dr. Doom like a friend of mine did if that'll make him feel better.
"[deep]You approach a right turn.[/deep].
"  He finds it reassuring, like owning a particularly scary breed of dog...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633305</id>
	<title>It's a joke, right?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247173080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think Eric Cartman said it best when he was once heard to comment: "Da f***!?"</p><p>SatNav doesn't "speak to our modern anxieties about the road" - it speaks directions!</p><p>"Seriously guys... da f***!?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think Eric Cartman said it best when he was once heard to comment : " Da f * * * ! ?
" SatNav does n't " speak to our modern anxieties about the road " - it speaks directions !
" Seriously guys... da f * * * ! ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think Eric Cartman said it best when he was once heard to comment: "Da f***!?
"SatNav doesn't "speak to our modern anxieties about the road" - it speaks directions!
"Seriously guys... da f***!?
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28640107</id>
	<title>Re:Apple/Orange</title>
	<author>Reziac</author>
	<datestamp>1247168280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Diff being with a map you have to figure out where you're going, whereas the GPS tells you where you'e going... no need to figure it out. Lets that part of the brain atrophy, or fail to develop in the first place.</p><p>We scream about the encroaching nanny state, then we invent gadget to nanny us... WTF?!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Diff being with a map you have to figure out where you 're going , whereas the GPS tells you where you'e going... no need to figure it out .
Lets that part of the brain atrophy , or fail to develop in the first place.We scream about the encroaching nanny state , then we invent gadget to nanny us.. .
WTF ? ! !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Diff being with a map you have to figure out where you're going, whereas the GPS tells you where you'e going... no need to figure it out.
Lets that part of the brain atrophy, or fail to develop in the first place.We scream about the encroaching nanny state, then we invent gadget to nanny us...
WTF?!!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633161</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634761</id>
	<title>Re:We use them because they're better</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247145480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's important to remember that satnav systems for cars have only become popular in the last few years, and have had significant improvements made during that time. The early satnav systems my family had in some of our cars actually were often worse than maps, as they could be quite unreliable, and street data was poor enough that we often found ourselves completely lost. Some of the systems (one in a Mercedes, in particular) did have voices that <em>were</em> bossy: that actually became a joke among all members of our family, not just the men.</p><p>Unfortunately, it appears that the author of this article has probably only used older systems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's important to remember that satnav systems for cars have only become popular in the last few years , and have had significant improvements made during that time .
The early satnav systems my family had in some of our cars actually were often worse than maps , as they could be quite unreliable , and street data was poor enough that we often found ourselves completely lost .
Some of the systems ( one in a Mercedes , in particular ) did have voices that were bossy : that actually became a joke among all members of our family , not just the men.Unfortunately , it appears that the author of this article has probably only used older systems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's important to remember that satnav systems for cars have only become popular in the last few years, and have had significant improvements made during that time.
The early satnav systems my family had in some of our cars actually were often worse than maps, as they could be quite unreliable, and street data was poor enough that we often found ourselves completely lost.
Some of the systems (one in a Mercedes, in particular) did have voices that were bossy: that actually became a joke among all members of our family, not just the men.Unfortunately, it appears that the author of this article has probably only used older systems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633927</id>
	<title>Re:Map on TomTom</title>
	<author>duguk</author>
	<datestamp>1247136600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Try using just the voice if you live in the UK.<br> <br>
Every time you hit a roundabout, you've gotta trust that TomTom gets the number of exits right. Looking at the map makes this easy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Try using just the voice if you live in the UK .
Every time you hit a roundabout , you 've got ta trust that TomTom gets the number of exits right .
Looking at the map makes this easy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try using just the voice if you live in the UK.
Every time you hit a roundabout, you've gotta trust that TomTom gets the number of exits right.
Looking at the map makes this easy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633165</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634719</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>Webcommando</author>
	<datestamp>1247145120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's all very well for those who use it occasionally, but recently when driving with my boss I realised that due to his over-reliance on sat-nav he was driving 10 miles out of his way to get home on a regular basis (on a journey of approx 50 miles).</p></div><p>I personally love my nav system (in car...I think these are the best) but you really need to know how to use it.  Of course, this is true of all gadgets.<br> <br>

Your boss probably could have gone and set his prefs to "shortest route".  Perhaps he had default to "shortest time" and the gadget decided the 10 miles was fine because it was faster roads/more major roads.  There are all sorts of fun setting you can try with these systems including finding local restaurants ("find destination type near me") on some back road you didn't even know existed.  I usually do a check on a map for new area but still let the device do the directing since a map doesn't know traffic, doesn't know speed limits, doesn't show (generally) if the entrance to the expressway is on the left or right.<br> <br>

I thought I was relying too much on it, until I used the "take me home" button from a concert and it kept insisting I  take side roads.  Each time I thought<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. "I know exactly where the interstate is" and each time it would re-route me on surface streets.  Well finally got on a road close to the expressway and could see it was packed.   That little voice was dead-on and she is so pleasant...never yells when you turn right when you should turn left.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's all very well for those who use it occasionally , but recently when driving with my boss I realised that due to his over-reliance on sat-nav he was driving 10 miles out of his way to get home on a regular basis ( on a journey of approx 50 miles ) .I personally love my nav system ( in car...I think these are the best ) but you really need to know how to use it .
Of course , this is true of all gadgets .
Your boss probably could have gone and set his prefs to " shortest route " .
Perhaps he had default to " shortest time " and the gadget decided the 10 miles was fine because it was faster roads/more major roads .
There are all sorts of fun setting you can try with these systems including finding local restaurants ( " find destination type near me " ) on some back road you did n't even know existed .
I usually do a check on a map for new area but still let the device do the directing since a map does n't know traffic , does n't know speed limits , does n't show ( generally ) if the entrance to the expressway is on the left or right .
I thought I was relying too much on it , until I used the " take me home " button from a concert and it kept insisting I take side roads .
Each time I thought .. " I know exactly where the interstate is " and each time it would re-route me on surface streets .
Well finally got on a road close to the expressway and could see it was packed .
That little voice was dead-on and she is so pleasant...never yells when you turn right when you should turn left .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's all very well for those who use it occasionally, but recently when driving with my boss I realised that due to his over-reliance on sat-nav he was driving 10 miles out of his way to get home on a regular basis (on a journey of approx 50 miles).I personally love my nav system (in car...I think these are the best) but you really need to know how to use it.
Of course, this is true of all gadgets.
Your boss probably could have gone and set his prefs to "shortest route".
Perhaps he had default to "shortest time" and the gadget decided the 10 miles was fine because it was faster roads/more major roads.
There are all sorts of fun setting you can try with these systems including finding local restaurants ("find destination type near me") on some back road you didn't even know existed.
I usually do a check on a map for new area but still let the device do the directing since a map doesn't know traffic, doesn't know speed limits, doesn't show (generally) if the entrance to the expressway is on the left or right.
I thought I was relying too much on it, until I used the "take me home" button from a concert and it kept insisting I  take side roads.
Each time I thought .. "I know exactly where the interstate is" and each time it would re-route me on surface streets.
Well finally got on a road close to the expressway and could see it was packed.
That little voice was dead-on and she is so pleasant...never yells when you turn right when you should turn left.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637547</id>
	<title>Too bad I can't read or watch in a vehicle...</title>
	<author>antdude</author>
	<datestamp>1247157900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... I get car sick from the movements and shakings.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:( So I have to enjoy the outside (not focus on anything), close my eyes (even sleep), etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... I get car sick from the movements and shakings .
: ( So I have to enjoy the outside ( not focus on anything ) , close my eyes ( even sleep ) , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... I get car sick from the movements and shakings.
:( So I have to enjoy the outside (not focus on anything), close my eyes (even sleep), etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633489</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636037</id>
	<title>Destroying local knowledge?</title>
	<author>iperkins</author>
	<datestamp>1247152320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Only for people who use it <i>who would have gotten by just fine without it</i>. For people like my wife, who lack the gene for direction sense, it's a godsend. For me, don't need it, won't use it - just another distraction, to compete with the plethora of things that already distract us in the car - cell phone, ipod, the Whopper that you are mostly wearing by the time you are done and the inability to find a decent block of music on the radio (hence the ipod).</p><p>Heh, the captcha is "quantity"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Only for people who use it who would have gotten by just fine without it .
For people like my wife , who lack the gene for direction sense , it 's a godsend .
For me , do n't need it , wo n't use it - just another distraction , to compete with the plethora of things that already distract us in the car - cell phone , ipod , the Whopper that you are mostly wearing by the time you are done and the inability to find a decent block of music on the radio ( hence the ipod ) .Heh , the captcha is " quantity "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only for people who use it who would have gotten by just fine without it.
For people like my wife, who lack the gene for direction sense, it's a godsend.
For me, don't need it, won't use it - just another distraction, to compete with the plethora of things that already distract us in the car - cell phone, ipod, the Whopper that you are mostly wearing by the time you are done and the inability to find a decent block of music on the radio (hence the ipod).Heh, the captcha is "quantity"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638065</id>
	<title>The real reason men don't trust it...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247160420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most of the time she takes you the wrong ways to the right place. You end up going through construction you knew you could have avoided. Long scenic routes when there were obvious shortcuts. And, sometimes they even get confused to the point where they have you driving in circles for no reason caught in some sort of feedback loop. And, it is not always aware of new roads. This all happens on a $1000 Garmin Nuvo.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of the time she takes you the wrong ways to the right place .
You end up going through construction you knew you could have avoided .
Long scenic routes when there were obvious shortcuts .
And , sometimes they even get confused to the point where they have you driving in circles for no reason caught in some sort of feedback loop .
And , it is not always aware of new roads .
This all happens on a $ 1000 Garmin Nuvo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of the time she takes you the wrong ways to the right place.
You end up going through construction you knew you could have avoided.
Long scenic routes when there were obvious shortcuts.
And, sometimes they even get confused to the point where they have you driving in circles for no reason caught in some sort of feedback loop.
And, it is not always aware of new roads.
This all happens on a $1000 Garmin Nuvo.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634175</id>
	<title>Taxi Drivers</title>
	<author>68kmac</author>
	<datestamp>1247139060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Somewhat related: These days even the taxi drivers don't know the way any more. It used to be such that you could jump into a taxi, mention the address and off we'd go.</p><p>Last time I used a taxi, the driver asked <b>me</b> for directions. Then, when I couldn't provide them, I had to spell out the address for him (he hadn't heard of the street before) so that he could type it into his sat-nav.</p><p>Not sure if that's really a problem, but I somehow felt cheated. Isn't it his job to know these things?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Somewhat related : These days even the taxi drivers do n't know the way any more .
It used to be such that you could jump into a taxi , mention the address and off we 'd go.Last time I used a taxi , the driver asked me for directions .
Then , when I could n't provide them , I had to spell out the address for him ( he had n't heard of the street before ) so that he could type it into his sat-nav.Not sure if that 's really a problem , but I somehow felt cheated .
Is n't it his job to know these things ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Somewhat related: These days even the taxi drivers don't know the way any more.
It used to be such that you could jump into a taxi, mention the address and off we'd go.Last time I used a taxi, the driver asked me for directions.
Then, when I couldn't provide them, I had to spell out the address for him (he hadn't heard of the street before) so that he could type it into his sat-nav.Not sure if that's really a problem, but I somehow felt cheated.
Isn't it his job to know these things?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633325</id>
	<title>Re:Soul-less</title>
	<author>archont</author>
	<datestamp>1247130180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree. My GPS has brought me to interesting places indeed. Then it brought me to even more interesting places, when the battery died.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
My GPS has brought me to interesting places indeed .
Then it brought me to even more interesting places , when the battery died .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
My GPS has brought me to interesting places indeed.
Then it brought me to even more interesting places, when the battery died.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633487</id>
	<title>Re:Map on TomTom</title>
	<author>gazbo</author>
	<datestamp>1247132220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So that when you arrive at a monster 8 exit roundabout and receive the instruction "turn slightly left" you at least have a fighting chance?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So that when you arrive at a monster 8 exit roundabout and receive the instruction " turn slightly left " you at least have a fighting chance ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So that when you arrive at a monster 8 exit roundabout and receive the instruction "turn slightly left" you at least have a fighting chance?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633165</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634215</id>
	<title>Re:Laws Of Technology.....</title>
	<author>petes\_PoV</author>
	<datestamp>1247139360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>which could be the difference between life and death if the GPS unit is damaged or the batteries are dead</p></div><p>So what happens if you lose your map? You're just as screwed as the guy with the flat batteries?
</p><p>
Anyhow, everyone who ever goes into a landscape with only one, single source of information is a fool - the motto "be prepared" applies, especially when your life is at stake. Carry a map, a GPS a mobile phone, the correct clothing, a distress flare  <b>and</b> a spare set of batteries.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>which could be the difference between life and death if the GPS unit is damaged or the batteries are deadSo what happens if you lose your map ?
You 're just as screwed as the guy with the flat batteries ?
Anyhow , everyone who ever goes into a landscape with only one , single source of information is a fool - the motto " be prepared " applies , especially when your life is at stake .
Carry a map , a GPS a mobile phone , the correct clothing , a distress flare and a spare set of batteries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>which could be the difference between life and death if the GPS unit is damaged or the batteries are deadSo what happens if you lose your map?
You're just as screwed as the guy with the flat batteries?
Anyhow, everyone who ever goes into a landscape with only one, single source of information is a fool - the motto "be prepared" applies, especially when your life is at stake.
Carry a map, a GPS a mobile phone, the correct clothing, a distress flare  and a spare set of batteries.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634863</id>
	<title>Re:Is Sat-Nav Destroying Local Knowledge?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247146260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would like to meet the idiot mod who spent mod points labeling this POS comment as insightful. Some people do not deserve any mod points.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would like to meet the idiot mod who spent mod points labeling this POS comment as insightful .
Some people do not deserve any mod points .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would like to meet the idiot mod who spent mod points labeling this POS comment as insightful.
Some people do not deserve any mod points.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633053</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634329</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>stephanruby</author>
	<datestamp>1247140500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Personally when the day comes, I won't need a compass. I can usually orient myself pretty well without any tools. Can't you? </p><p>That being said, I find geolocation pretty handy. With Google Latitude, I know where my friends are, and they know where I am (plus, google also gives me traffic conditions). With Trapster, I know where I can speed, and where I shouldn't. With GasBuddy, I know where the price of gas is the cheapest, and the nearest. And I know I haven't tried most of the gps apps out there yet.

Satellite navigation is really convenient (and what's more, most of the time you don't even need to have it turned on).
</p><p>And as time goes on, its error-correction through software and through other means is only going to improve, so I'm really not worried about solar radiation.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally when the day comes , I wo n't need a compass .
I can usually orient myself pretty well without any tools .
Ca n't you ?
That being said , I find geolocation pretty handy .
With Google Latitude , I know where my friends are , and they know where I am ( plus , google also gives me traffic conditions ) .
With Trapster , I know where I can speed , and where I should n't .
With GasBuddy , I know where the price of gas is the cheapest , and the nearest .
And I know I have n't tried most of the gps apps out there yet .
Satellite navigation is really convenient ( and what 's more , most of the time you do n't even need to have it turned on ) .
And as time goes on , its error-correction through software and through other means is only going to improve , so I 'm really not worried about solar radiation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally when the day comes, I won't need a compass.
I can usually orient myself pretty well without any tools.
Can't you?
That being said, I find geolocation pretty handy.
With Google Latitude, I know where my friends are, and they know where I am (plus, google also gives me traffic conditions).
With Trapster, I know where I can speed, and where I shouldn't.
With GasBuddy, I know where the price of gas is the cheapest, and the nearest.
And I know I haven't tried most of the gps apps out there yet.
Satellite navigation is really convenient (and what's more, most of the time you don't even need to have it turned on).
And as time goes on, its error-correction through software and through other means is only going to improve, so I'm really not worried about solar radiation.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634613</id>
	<title>Re:Laws Of Technology.....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247144160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; vulnerable to the most simplest of problems</p><p>"Most simplest"?  Looks like your grammar check missed that one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; vulnerable to the most simplest of problems " Most simplest " ?
Looks like your grammar check missed that one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; vulnerable to the most simplest of problems"Most simplest"?
Looks like your grammar check missed that one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634081</id>
	<title>Track up, or North up?</title>
	<author>KlaymenDK</author>
	<datestamp>1247138160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I usually run with "North up" and zoom out occasionally, so I have a better picture of how I move around. This annoys my wife endlessly, because she prefers "Track up" mode where you always seem to go straight ahead. But then she's one of those people who struggle with "which way is left" while looking at a map when you're driving anywhere but north.</p><p>So I agree that if you care about it, a GPS can assist you in building knowledge about your surroundings; just as it can be detrimental if you don't care about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I usually run with " North up " and zoom out occasionally , so I have a better picture of how I move around .
This annoys my wife endlessly , because she prefers " Track up " mode where you always seem to go straight ahead .
But then she 's one of those people who struggle with " which way is left " while looking at a map when you 're driving anywhere but north.So I agree that if you care about it , a GPS can assist you in building knowledge about your surroundings ; just as it can be detrimental if you do n't care about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I usually run with "North up" and zoom out occasionally, so I have a better picture of how I move around.
This annoys my wife endlessly, because she prefers "Track up" mode where you always seem to go straight ahead.
But then she's one of those people who struggle with "which way is left" while looking at a map when you're driving anywhere but north.So I agree that if you care about it, a GPS can assist you in building knowledge about your surroundings; just as it can be detrimental if you don't care about it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633307</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634647</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>that IT girl</author>
	<datestamp>1247144460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The sat-nav is not supposed to be used alone anyway... Ideally, you also have read over some general directions and are going to use common sense in addition to the directions it provides.
<br> <br>
At least, that's what I do. I have a terrible sense of direction, but a very good memory of road names. My sat-nav has helped so many times when I'm going somewhere I've never been before. I tend to get panicky when I'm looking for something and I've driven past the same area 3 times and there's some jerk tailgating me because I'm going slower... This really helps me feel more confident, and I can drive more safely. I don't ever assume it will be 100 percent accurate, but once I get within what it says is a couple of miles from my next turn, I make sure I'm in the appropriate lane and start keeping my eyes open. Once I've taken the same route a few times (or even just once in some cases), I can remember the route and do not have to use the sat-nav each time. Therefore, it helps me learn the area better rather than making me dependent.<br> <br>As with any other tool, it can be useful to someone who uses it correctly, and dangerous to someone who does not.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The sat-nav is not supposed to be used alone anyway... Ideally , you also have read over some general directions and are going to use common sense in addition to the directions it provides .
At least , that 's what I do .
I have a terrible sense of direction , but a very good memory of road names .
My sat-nav has helped so many times when I 'm going somewhere I 've never been before .
I tend to get panicky when I 'm looking for something and I 've driven past the same area 3 times and there 's some jerk tailgating me because I 'm going slower... This really helps me feel more confident , and I can drive more safely .
I do n't ever assume it will be 100 percent accurate , but once I get within what it says is a couple of miles from my next turn , I make sure I 'm in the appropriate lane and start keeping my eyes open .
Once I 've taken the same route a few times ( or even just once in some cases ) , I can remember the route and do not have to use the sat-nav each time .
Therefore , it helps me learn the area better rather than making me dependent .
As with any other tool , it can be useful to someone who uses it correctly , and dangerous to someone who does not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sat-nav is not supposed to be used alone anyway... Ideally, you also have read over some general directions and are going to use common sense in addition to the directions it provides.
At least, that's what I do.
I have a terrible sense of direction, but a very good memory of road names.
My sat-nav has helped so many times when I'm going somewhere I've never been before.
I tend to get panicky when I'm looking for something and I've driven past the same area 3 times and there's some jerk tailgating me because I'm going slower... This really helps me feel more confident, and I can drive more safely.
I don't ever assume it will be 100 percent accurate, but once I get within what it says is a couple of miles from my next turn, I make sure I'm in the appropriate lane and start keeping my eyes open.
Once I've taken the same route a few times (or even just once in some cases), I can remember the route and do not have to use the sat-nav each time.
Therefore, it helps me learn the area better rather than making me dependent.
As with any other tool, it can be useful to someone who uses it correctly, and dangerous to someone who does not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636691</id>
	<title>Re:Real human directions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247154540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Turtle graphics killed my Cartesian skills!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Turtle graphics killed my Cartesian skills !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Turtle graphics killed my Cartesian skills!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633277</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28647379</id>
	<title>Sat Nav is causing bad driving.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247222820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sat Nav is causing bad driving. I've had several instances of following an erratically behaving car, including turning the wrong way up a one-way street, wobbling, erratic speed changes etc. Sooner or later you eventually find out the idiot in charge of the car is using a sat nav and spending so much time looking at it that they are not concentrating on actually looking at the road, where the are going or the road signage. I'm surprised there haven't been any sat-nav induced deaths by now (or maybe they are not being reported).</p><p>I imagine that many people are losing the ability to read a map because of Sat-Nav.</p><p>I can usually get anywhere I need to without a Sat-Nav, with the single exception of Milton Keynes (UK) which is laid out in a rather stupid grid style with roundabouts so that the entire place looks identical at each roundabout. Very easy to get lost in that environment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sat Nav is causing bad driving .
I 've had several instances of following an erratically behaving car , including turning the wrong way up a one-way street , wobbling , erratic speed changes etc .
Sooner or later you eventually find out the idiot in charge of the car is using a sat nav and spending so much time looking at it that they are not concentrating on actually looking at the road , where the are going or the road signage .
I 'm surprised there have n't been any sat-nav induced deaths by now ( or maybe they are not being reported ) .I imagine that many people are losing the ability to read a map because of Sat-Nav.I can usually get anywhere I need to without a Sat-Nav , with the single exception of Milton Keynes ( UK ) which is laid out in a rather stupid grid style with roundabouts so that the entire place looks identical at each roundabout .
Very easy to get lost in that environment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sat Nav is causing bad driving.
I've had several instances of following an erratically behaving car, including turning the wrong way up a one-way street, wobbling, erratic speed changes etc.
Sooner or later you eventually find out the idiot in charge of the car is using a sat nav and spending so much time looking at it that they are not concentrating on actually looking at the road, where the are going or the road signage.
I'm surprised there haven't been any sat-nav induced deaths by now (or maybe they are not being reported).I imagine that many people are losing the ability to read a map because of Sat-Nav.I can usually get anywhere I need to without a Sat-Nav, with the single exception of Milton Keynes (UK) which is laid out in a rather stupid grid style with roundabouts so that the entire place looks identical at each roundabout.
Very easy to get lost in that environment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633175</id>
	<title>"Real men" ... bah!</title>
	<author>aibob</author>
	<datestamp>1247171400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But do real men use sat-nav?</p></div><p>In the same way that "real men" only program in assembly!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But do real men use sat-nav ? In the same way that " real men " only program in assembly !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But do real men use sat-nav?In the same way that "real men" only program in assembly!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634249</id>
	<title>Real men</title>
	<author>shish</author>
	<datestamp>1247139720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But do real men use sat-nav?</p></div><p>Of course not -- real men navigate the same way they do everything else; with a mixture of <i>power tools</i> and <i>grenades</i></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But do real men use sat-nav ? Of course not -- real men navigate the same way they do everything else ; with a mixture of power tools and grenades</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But do real men use sat-nav?Of course not -- real men navigate the same way they do everything else; with a mixture of power tools and grenades
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633161</id>
	<title>Apple/Orange</title>
	<author>Quiet\_Desperation</author>
	<datestamp>1247171160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is it really fair to compare map-reading to calligraphy and roof-thatching? I remember learning map reading in the first grade. It's hardly on the same order of skill level as the other two. Many of the nav systems show you a map or maplike display, so it's not completely gone. Just not seeing the problem here. What about Google maps? Everyone I know uses that, even the ones with nav systems. They want to see where they are going.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it really fair to compare map-reading to calligraphy and roof-thatching ?
I remember learning map reading in the first grade .
It 's hardly on the same order of skill level as the other two .
Many of the nav systems show you a map or maplike display , so it 's not completely gone .
Just not seeing the problem here .
What about Google maps ?
Everyone I know uses that , even the ones with nav systems .
They want to see where they are going .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it really fair to compare map-reading to calligraphy and roof-thatching?
I remember learning map reading in the first grade.
It's hardly on the same order of skill level as the other two.
Many of the nav systems show you a map or maplike display, so it's not completely gone.
Just not seeing the problem here.
What about Google maps?
Everyone I know uses that, even the ones with nav systems.
They want to see where they are going.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634023</id>
	<title>When men were men.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247137500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After living in England, I'd swore I'd never not have a sat-nav again.  The English quite possibly have the worst markings for their roads in the free world.    After moving to Tampa a few weeks ago the first I did was go buy a Garmin Navi.  After a few days of driving around with the GPS I'm imputing fewer and fewer directions.  If anything the GPS has given me the confidence to try all those back streets with and without destination directions since I know I can get back to familiar territory quickly.  In the past I would learn the most expedient route and drive that one over and over until events or riding with someone else showed me a different one.</p><p>If they want to complain about anything destroying local knowledge then they should put the blame on the highway system, but then again who wants to have to navigate the speed traps, the low speed limits when passing through small towns every 20 miles, and trying to find a gas station that is open past 6pm, when you can just jump on the highway and do the trip in half the time and a third the hassle.</p><p>I say good riddance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After living in England , I 'd swore I 'd never not have a sat-nav again .
The English quite possibly have the worst markings for their roads in the free world .
After moving to Tampa a few weeks ago the first I did was go buy a Garmin Navi .
After a few days of driving around with the GPS I 'm imputing fewer and fewer directions .
If anything the GPS has given me the confidence to try all those back streets with and without destination directions since I know I can get back to familiar territory quickly .
In the past I would learn the most expedient route and drive that one over and over until events or riding with someone else showed me a different one.If they want to complain about anything destroying local knowledge then they should put the blame on the highway system , but then again who wants to have to navigate the speed traps , the low speed limits when passing through small towns every 20 miles , and trying to find a gas station that is open past 6pm , when you can just jump on the highway and do the trip in half the time and a third the hassle.I say good riddance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After living in England, I'd swore I'd never not have a sat-nav again.
The English quite possibly have the worst markings for their roads in the free world.
After moving to Tampa a few weeks ago the first I did was go buy a Garmin Navi.
After a few days of driving around with the GPS I'm imputing fewer and fewer directions.
If anything the GPS has given me the confidence to try all those back streets with and without destination directions since I know I can get back to familiar territory quickly.
In the past I would learn the most expedient route and drive that one over and over until events or riding with someone else showed me a different one.If they want to complain about anything destroying local knowledge then they should put the blame on the highway system, but then again who wants to have to navigate the speed traps, the low speed limits when passing through small towns every 20 miles, and trying to find a gas station that is open past 6pm, when you can just jump on the highway and do the trip in half the time and a third the hassle.I say good riddance.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633503</id>
	<title>spelling?!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247132460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fucking spell the whole word.  Satellite Navigation.  using "Sat-Nav" makes you sound like a douche.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fucking spell the whole word .
Satellite Navigation .
using " Sat-Nav " makes you sound like a douche .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fucking spell the whole word.
Satellite Navigation.
using "Sat-Nav" makes you sound like a douche.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634633</id>
	<title>sat nav is annoying</title>
	<author>js3</author>
	<datestamp>1247144400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I drove to Ottawa to Toronto for the first time. On googlemaps the route was quite simple, get on the 401 drive to toronto easy right? Punched in the address in my satnav and it decided to take a weird route along highway 7, some back country road 7th line it was called then back to highway 7 the trip was a nightmare. When I reached my destination I checked the options and it was set to "shortest distance", which for some weird reason is not the same as "fastest route" (omg highway 401).</p><p>I must admit tho that the scenic route to Toronto was far more enjoyable than the highway trip back home, one must truely appreciate truck drivers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I drove to Ottawa to Toronto for the first time .
On googlemaps the route was quite simple , get on the 401 drive to toronto easy right ?
Punched in the address in my satnav and it decided to take a weird route along highway 7 , some back country road 7th line it was called then back to highway 7 the trip was a nightmare .
When I reached my destination I checked the options and it was set to " shortest distance " , which for some weird reason is not the same as " fastest route " ( omg highway 401 ) .I must admit tho that the scenic route to Toronto was far more enjoyable than the highway trip back home , one must truely appreciate truck drivers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I drove to Ottawa to Toronto for the first time.
On googlemaps the route was quite simple, get on the 401 drive to toronto easy right?
Punched in the address in my satnav and it decided to take a weird route along highway 7, some back country road 7th line it was called then back to highway 7 the trip was a nightmare.
When I reached my destination I checked the options and it was set to "shortest distance", which for some weird reason is not the same as "fastest route" (omg highway 401).I must admit tho that the scenic route to Toronto was far more enjoyable than the highway trip back home, one must truely appreciate truck drivers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638317</id>
	<title>Re:Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>Reziac</author>
	<datestamp>1247161440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Heh... that sounds about right<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>One way I can tell who used my directions to find my place, and who used their GPS, is that the former get here in one shot, and the latter almost invariably call me enroute, being lost anywhere from half a mile away (where the best GPS will dump you given my address) to 10 miles away (some GPSs seem to have a problem with East vs West when there are not matching E and W streets). And I'm not hard to find, either... just not on a named street.</p><p>[I don't use a GPS. I carry vast maps in my head, and can read the ones I don't know yet.]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Heh... that sounds about right : ) One way I can tell who used my directions to find my place , and who used their GPS , is that the former get here in one shot , and the latter almost invariably call me enroute , being lost anywhere from half a mile away ( where the best GPS will dump you given my address ) to 10 miles away ( some GPSs seem to have a problem with East vs West when there are not matching E and W streets ) .
And I 'm not hard to find , either... just not on a named street .
[ I do n't use a GPS .
I carry vast maps in my head , and can read the ones I do n't know yet .
]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heh... that sounds about right :)One way I can tell who used my directions to find my place, and who used their GPS, is that the former get here in one shot, and the latter almost invariably call me enroute, being lost anywhere from half a mile away (where the best GPS will dump you given my address) to 10 miles away (some GPSs seem to have a problem with East vs West when there are not matching E and W streets).
And I'm not hard to find, either... just not on a named street.
[I don't use a GPS.
I carry vast maps in my head, and can read the ones I don't know yet.
]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634985</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635345</id>
	<title>Local</title>
	<author>MonsterTrimble</author>
	<datestamp>1247149200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I do not think it means what you think it means.

Seriously, GPS destroys local knowledge? REALLY? So what you're saying is that I won't know where my favorite bars and the local grocery is without a sat-nav? That I won't know the area within a 2 km diameter of my house like the back of my hand without it? To quote Denis Leary: www dot WHAT THE F*** dot com!

Sat-Nav is a tool. End of story. I use Google Maps to plot a trek to someplace unfamiliar, but that's about it. Frankly, if somebody trusts their GPS unconditionally they're an idiot.</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do not think it means what you think it means .
Seriously , GPS destroys local knowledge ?
REALLY ? So what you 're saying is that I wo n't know where my favorite bars and the local grocery is without a sat-nav ?
That I wo n't know the area within a 2 km diameter of my house like the back of my hand without it ?
To quote Denis Leary : www dot WHAT THE F * * * dot com !
Sat-Nav is a tool .
End of story .
I use Google Maps to plot a trek to someplace unfamiliar , but that 's about it .
Frankly , if somebody trusts their GPS unconditionally they 're an idiot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do not think it means what you think it means.
Seriously, GPS destroys local knowledge?
REALLY? So what you're saying is that I won't know where my favorite bars and the local grocery is without a sat-nav?
That I won't know the area within a 2 km diameter of my house like the back of my hand without it?
To quote Denis Leary: www dot WHAT THE F*** dot com!
Sat-Nav is a tool.
End of story.
I use Google Maps to plot a trek to someplace unfamiliar, but that's about it.
Frankly, if somebody trusts their GPS unconditionally they're an idiot.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634587</id>
	<title>This needs a slashdot Poll</title>
	<author>tanveer1979</author>
	<datestamp>1247143800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your favorite Anti new tech question<br>1. Is Satnav Destroying local knowledge<br>2. Are calculators destroying mathematics<br>3. Are keyboards destroying writing knowledge<br>4. Are cars destroying cross country running<br>5. Are medicines destroying death<br>6. Is Cowboyneal destroying humanity</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your favorite Anti new tech question1 .
Is Satnav Destroying local knowledge2 .
Are calculators destroying mathematics3 .
Are keyboards destroying writing knowledge4 .
Are cars destroying cross country running5 .
Are medicines destroying death6 .
Is Cowboyneal destroying humanity</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your favorite Anti new tech question1.
Is Satnav Destroying local knowledge2.
Are calculators destroying mathematics3.
Are keyboards destroying writing knowledge4.
Are cars destroying cross country running5.
Are medicines destroying death6.
Is Cowboyneal destroying humanity</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633253</id>
	<title>WTF?</title>
	<author>kmac06</author>
	<datestamp>1247172180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>'Since before even the arrival of the car, people have worried that maps sever us from real places, render the world untouchable, reduce it to a bare outline of Cartesian lines and intersections,' writes Moran.</p></div><p>I think "Moran" misspelled his own name...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'Since before even the arrival of the car , people have worried that maps sever us from real places , render the world untouchable , reduce it to a bare outline of Cartesian lines and intersections, ' writes Moran.I think " Moran " misspelled his own name.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'Since before even the arrival of the car, people have worried that maps sever us from real places, render the world untouchable, reduce it to a bare outline of Cartesian lines and intersections,' writes Moran.I think "Moran" misspelled his own name...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638027</id>
	<title>I'm still waiting...</title>
	<author>eth1</author>
	<datestamp>1247160300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...for a GPS company to allow you to upload samples of your wife's voice to nag you about the directions...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...for a GPS company to allow you to upload samples of your wife 's voice to nag you about the directions... : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...for a GPS company to allow you to upload samples of your wife's voice to nag you about the directions... :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633113</id>
	<title>Ireland</title>
	<author>MichaelSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1247170560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In Galway once I had to arrange shipping for some stuff to go to Australia. The truck driver arrived from Dublin and spent an hour driving in circles looking for the address to pick up from. Apparently it just isn't done to carry with a map so you can find your destination. People prefer you to stop and ask.<br> <br>
So I don't think it is specifically a sat nav thing. People sometimes find maps to be intrusive. For me, I have a garmin etrex without mapping capability. I can follow a straight line from A to B. If there is something in the way I just have to go over, under or around it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In Galway once I had to arrange shipping for some stuff to go to Australia .
The truck driver arrived from Dublin and spent an hour driving in circles looking for the address to pick up from .
Apparently it just is n't done to carry with a map so you can find your destination .
People prefer you to stop and ask .
So I do n't think it is specifically a sat nav thing .
People sometimes find maps to be intrusive .
For me , I have a garmin etrex without mapping capability .
I can follow a straight line from A to B. If there is something in the way I just have to go over , under or around it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Galway once I had to arrange shipping for some stuff to go to Australia.
The truck driver arrived from Dublin and spent an hour driving in circles looking for the address to pick up from.
Apparently it just isn't done to carry with a map so you can find your destination.
People prefer you to stop and ask.
So I don't think it is specifically a sat nav thing.
People sometimes find maps to be intrusive.
For me, I have a garmin etrex without mapping capability.
I can follow a straight line from A to B. If there is something in the way I just have to go over, under or around it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28648353</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1247234100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can try alternate routes with the confidence that if you *do* get lost, you can use the magic box to get back on track.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can try alternate routes with the confidence that if you * do * get lost , you can use the magic box to get back on track .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can try alternate routes with the confidence that if you *do* get lost, you can use the magic box to get back on track.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634341</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633445</id>
	<title>Audio books are the end of the reading?</title>
	<author>RudeIota</author>
	<datestamp>1247131620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>GPS units have basically taken a map and stored it digitally, created a way to keep the map up to date, track your location on that map and give you verbal cues based on that very same map again.<br> <br>
This is like saying Audio books are the end of reading.</htmltext>
<tokenext>GPS units have basically taken a map and stored it digitally , created a way to keep the map up to date , track your location on that map and give you verbal cues based on that very same map again .
This is like saying Audio books are the end of reading .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GPS units have basically taken a map and stored it digitally, created a way to keep the map up to date, track your location on that map and give you verbal cues based on that very same map again.
This is like saying Audio books are the end of reading.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635745</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, which planet Earth? -sextants still in u</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247151180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I'm sorry, could you repeat that? I'd partially deaf to bullshit. "</p><p>That may be true, but I bet you can smell a cock you'd like to suck a mile away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I 'm sorry , could you repeat that ?
I 'd partially deaf to bullshit .
" That may be true , but I bet you can smell a cock you 'd like to suck a mile away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
I'd partially deaf to bullshit.
"That may be true, but I bet you can smell a cock you'd like to suck a mile away.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633123</id>
	<title>Soul-less</title>
	<author>johannesg</author>
	<datestamp>1247170680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, and taking someones picture will steal their soul as well. And now you can get a camera and a GPS in a <a href="http://www.gpsreview.net/garmin-oregon-500-series/" title="gpsreview.net">single convenient package</a> [gpsreview.net], so you can both take the souls of the natives \_and\_ conveniently avoid their local culture at the same time!</p><p>Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, my GPS has brought me to more interesting places than I care to count, places I would never have visited without this handy tool pointing the way (or at least helping not  to get lost). I'm sure the next generation won't even know what the phrase "getting lost" really means, just as being "out of contact" will have no meaning to them. A map will be about as useful to them as a sextant is to us (what? You sold yours on Ebay years ago? Shameful!). And personally, I wish them all the best with it!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , and taking someones picture will steal their soul as well .
And now you can get a camera and a GPS in a single convenient package [ gpsreview.net ] , so you can both take the souls of the natives \ _and \ _ conveniently avoid their local culture at the same time ! Meanwhile , back on planet Earth , my GPS has brought me to more interesting places than I care to count , places I would never have visited without this handy tool pointing the way ( or at least helping not to get lost ) .
I 'm sure the next generation wo n't even know what the phrase " getting lost " really means , just as being " out of contact " will have no meaning to them .
A map will be about as useful to them as a sextant is to us ( what ?
You sold yours on Ebay years ago ?
Shameful ! ) . And personally , I wish them all the best with it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, and taking someones picture will steal their soul as well.
And now you can get a camera and a GPS in a single convenient package [gpsreview.net], so you can both take the souls of the natives \_and\_ conveniently avoid their local culture at the same time!Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, my GPS has brought me to more interesting places than I care to count, places I would never have visited without this handy tool pointing the way (or at least helping not  to get lost).
I'm sure the next generation won't even know what the phrase "getting lost" really means, just as being "out of contact" will have no meaning to them.
A map will be about as useful to them as a sextant is to us (what?
You sold yours on Ebay years ago?
Shameful!). And personally, I wish them all the best with it!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633979</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>jez9999</author>
	<datestamp>1247137080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Only in America.  Seriously, that's virtually unheard of over here in the UK and is rather comical.  What do parents put on for kids to watch during the trip?  An in-drive movie?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Only in America .
Seriously , that 's virtually unheard of over here in the UK and is rather comical .
What do parents put on for kids to watch during the trip ?
An in-drive movie ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only in America.
Seriously, that's virtually unheard of over here in the UK and is rather comical.
What do parents put on for kids to watch during the trip?
An in-drive movie?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635277</id>
	<title>Re:Au contraire</title>
	<author>marciot</author>
	<datestamp>1247148840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree. I used to drive only the main north-south and east-west streets to get places, like pretty much everyone else in our city does. Ever since getting sat-nav, I challenge myself to take the road less traveled, often cutting through neighborhoods in a twisty path I never would have been able to muster without sat-nav. I find this to be less stressful, plus I get to take in the flavor of local neighborhoods I never would have seen otherwise. And I always feel free to totally disregard the directions, trying a new road on my own, knowing that the GPS will help get me out of a bind if I get lost.</p><p>So, it believe it is true that if you blindly follow the directions, GPS can make you dumber. But if you use GPS as an aid for exploration, it can actually make you *much* more aware of your surroundings. I just wish GPSes had features that enabled and encouraged such exploration. For example, it would be really nice if the GPS would not pick a route for me, but would visually indicate for me which routes I could chose from. Perhaps, for example, individual roads on the map could be color coded: green for the most direct route, yellow for the non-direct routes, and red for dead-end roads. This would give me a choice at each juncture as to which turn to take.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
I used to drive only the main north-south and east-west streets to get places , like pretty much everyone else in our city does .
Ever since getting sat-nav , I challenge myself to take the road less traveled , often cutting through neighborhoods in a twisty path I never would have been able to muster without sat-nav .
I find this to be less stressful , plus I get to take in the flavor of local neighborhoods I never would have seen otherwise .
And I always feel free to totally disregard the directions , trying a new road on my own , knowing that the GPS will help get me out of a bind if I get lost.So , it believe it is true that if you blindly follow the directions , GPS can make you dumber .
But if you use GPS as an aid for exploration , it can actually make you * much * more aware of your surroundings .
I just wish GPSes had features that enabled and encouraged such exploration .
For example , it would be really nice if the GPS would not pick a route for me , but would visually indicate for me which routes I could chose from .
Perhaps , for example , individual roads on the map could be color coded : green for the most direct route , yellow for the non-direct routes , and red for dead-end roads .
This would give me a choice at each juncture as to which turn to take .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
I used to drive only the main north-south and east-west streets to get places, like pretty much everyone else in our city does.
Ever since getting sat-nav, I challenge myself to take the road less traveled, often cutting through neighborhoods in a twisty path I never would have been able to muster without sat-nav.
I find this to be less stressful, plus I get to take in the flavor of local neighborhoods I never would have seen otherwise.
And I always feel free to totally disregard the directions, trying a new road on my own, knowing that the GPS will help get me out of a bind if I get lost.So, it believe it is true that if you blindly follow the directions, GPS can make you dumber.
But if you use GPS as an aid for exploration, it can actually make you *much* more aware of your surroundings.
I just wish GPSes had features that enabled and encouraged such exploration.
For example, it would be really nice if the GPS would not pick a route for me, but would visually indicate for me which routes I could chose from.
Perhaps, for example, individual roads on the map could be color coded: green for the most direct route, yellow for the non-direct routes, and red for dead-end roads.
This would give me a choice at each juncture as to which turn to take.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633307</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633637</id>
	<title>Bossy GPS?</title>
	<author>ArsenneLupin</author>
	<datestamp>1247133780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Moran says that men seem to recoil from being given digital instructions by a woman, and read the satnav woman's pregnant pauses, or her curt phrases like 'make a legal U-turn' and 'recalculating the route', as stubborn or bossy.</p></div><p>Well, nowadays for most GPS units, you can get customizations with nice manly voices... So you aren't turned down while it guides you to your hot steamy hookup that you met on Romeo...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Moran says that men seem to recoil from being given digital instructions by a woman , and read the satnav woman 's pregnant pauses , or her curt phrases like 'make a legal U-turn ' and 'recalculating the route ' , as stubborn or bossy.Well , nowadays for most GPS units , you can get customizations with nice manly voices... So you are n't turned down while it guides you to your hot steamy hookup that you met on Romeo.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Moran says that men seem to recoil from being given digital instructions by a woman, and read the satnav woman's pregnant pauses, or her curt phrases like 'make a legal U-turn' and 'recalculating the route', as stubborn or bossy.Well, nowadays for most GPS units, you can get customizations with nice manly voices... So you aren't turned down while it guides you to your hot steamy hookup that you met on Romeo...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635207</id>
	<title>I'm going to say, yes</title>
	<author>steveo777</author>
	<datestamp>1247148480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My fiance was driving to her brother's house for the millionth time.  I was on the phone with her and the GPS told her to go north when we both knew damn well she needed to go south.  But, since it had messed up she figured it was right and went North.....  Not five seconds later, "This doesn't seem right."  I have repeatedly heard her say that it was one of the best gifts ever, however she can't find my apartment about 50\% of the time.</p><p>Tech is great when properly used.  However, when it takes away from our ability to do things that we should be able to do on our own I will have to second guess it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My fiance was driving to her brother 's house for the millionth time .
I was on the phone with her and the GPS told her to go north when we both knew damn well she needed to go south .
But , since it had messed up she figured it was right and went North..... Not five seconds later , " This does n't seem right .
" I have repeatedly heard her say that it was one of the best gifts ever , however she ca n't find my apartment about 50 \ % of the time.Tech is great when properly used .
However , when it takes away from our ability to do things that we should be able to do on our own I will have to second guess it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My fiance was driving to her brother's house for the millionth time.
I was on the phone with her and the GPS told her to go north when we both knew damn well she needed to go south.
But, since it had messed up she figured it was right and went North.....  Not five seconds later, "This doesn't seem right.
"  I have repeatedly heard her say that it was one of the best gifts ever, however she can't find my apartment about 50\% of the time.Tech is great when properly used.
However, when it takes away from our ability to do things that we should be able to do on our own I will have to second guess it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634143</id>
	<title>Re:Soul-less</title>
	<author>couchslug</author>
	<datestamp>1247138580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"so you can both take the souls of the natives \_and\_ conveniently avoid their local culture at the same time!"</p><p>Traveling South of Mason-Dixon, are we?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" so you can both take the souls of the natives \ _and \ _ conveniently avoid their local culture at the same time !
" Traveling South of Mason-Dixon , are we ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"so you can both take the souls of the natives \_and\_ conveniently avoid their local culture at the same time!
"Traveling South of Mason-Dixon, are we?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633989</id>
	<title>speed limits</title>
	<author>dario\_moreno</author>
	<datestamp>1247137200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem with GPS units (or google maps/etc) for that matter is that they tend to compute the fastest route respecting speed limits, unless you reprogram them by hand if it is possible. Since I usually drive about 10-20\% above speed limit outside towns (it is a calculated risk taking into account the probability of law enforcement presence as a function of time, rain, taxi behavior, hills, obvious traps, and limiting risks as a function of extreme weather, traffic, tractors, etc) I have been caught 4 times in 18 years but still have my driving license. I know of certain routes which cut 10\% time in comparison to GPS-recommended ones thanks to this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with GPS units ( or google maps/etc ) for that matter is that they tend to compute the fastest route respecting speed limits , unless you reprogram them by hand if it is possible .
Since I usually drive about 10-20 \ % above speed limit outside towns ( it is a calculated risk taking into account the probability of law enforcement presence as a function of time , rain , taxi behavior , hills , obvious traps , and limiting risks as a function of extreme weather , traffic , tractors , etc ) I have been caught 4 times in 18 years but still have my driving license .
I know of certain routes which cut 10 \ % time in comparison to GPS-recommended ones thanks to this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with GPS units (or google maps/etc) for that matter is that they tend to compute the fastest route respecting speed limits, unless you reprogram them by hand if it is possible.
Since I usually drive about 10-20\% above speed limit outside towns (it is a calculated risk taking into account the probability of law enforcement presence as a function of time, rain, taxi behavior, hills, obvious traps, and limiting risks as a function of extreme weather, traffic, tractors, etc) I have been caught 4 times in 18 years but still have my driving license.
I know of certain routes which cut 10\% time in comparison to GPS-recommended ones thanks to this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633057</id>
	<title>Road signs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247169600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>'Sat-nav feeds into this long-held fear that the cold-blooded modern world is destroying local knowledge, that roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them.'"</p></div><p>Are there still signs on the side? If yes, you have everything you need to get anywhere. (Ok, it doesn't hurt to know the major cities you want to go through.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'Sat-nav feeds into this long-held fear that the cold-blooded modern world is destroying local knowledge , that roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them .
' " Are there still signs on the side ?
If yes , you have everything you need to get anywhere .
( Ok , it does n't hurt to know the major cities you want to go through .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'Sat-nav feeds into this long-held fear that the cold-blooded modern world is destroying local knowledge, that roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them.
'"Are there still signs on the side?
If yes, you have everything you need to get anywhere.
(Ok, it doesn't hurt to know the major cities you want to go through.
)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633711</id>
	<title>Re:spelling?!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247134560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Satellite Navigation. using "Sat-Nav" makes you sound like a douche.</i> </p><p>Nouns aren't capitalized in English, by the way, and the first word of a sentence is.</p><p>Also, it's "satellite navigation system" or something along those lines, since "satellite navigation" is just what you're doing when you use on of them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Satellite Navigation .
using " Sat-Nav " makes you sound like a douche .
Nouns are n't capitalized in English , by the way , and the first word of a sentence is.Also , it 's " satellite navigation system " or something along those lines , since " satellite navigation " is just what you 're doing when you use on of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Satellite Navigation.
using "Sat-Nav" makes you sound like a douche.
Nouns aren't capitalized in English, by the way, and the first word of a sentence is.Also, it's "satellite navigation system" or something along those lines, since "satellite navigation" is just what you're doing when you use on of them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637423</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247157360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You know, as much as I love a good ragging on TV, and as much as I hate the use of video valium for babysitting, this isn't really a new problem at all.  I had to learn a lot of my community from scratch when I learned to drive because I used to <em>read</em> in the car.</p></div><p>I didn't read in the car even (made me sick) and I really didn't have an idea of where anything really was until I started driving (unless I could walk or ride my bike there).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , as much as I love a good ragging on TV , and as much as I hate the use of video valium for babysitting , this is n't really a new problem at all .
I had to learn a lot of my community from scratch when I learned to drive because I used to read in the car.I did n't read in the car even ( made me sick ) and I really did n't have an idea of where anything really was until I started driving ( unless I could walk or ride my bike there ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, as much as I love a good ragging on TV, and as much as I hate the use of video valium for babysitting, this isn't really a new problem at all.
I had to learn a lot of my community from scratch when I learned to drive because I used to read in the car.I didn't read in the car even (made me sick) and I really didn't have an idea of where anything really was until I started driving (unless I could walk or ride my bike there).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633489</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634051</id>
	<title>Nonsense</title>
	<author>wighed</author>
	<datestamp>1247137740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sat-nav has for the most part, helped me learn a new area faster than I would have with maps.
I've used it when business takes me to a new locale, and after two or three uses, I know the general layout enough that It's not necessary anymore.
At least with sat-nav, the maps get updated. With the old fold out maps, you had to rely on whenever that edition was printed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sat-nav has for the most part , helped me learn a new area faster than I would have with maps .
I 've used it when business takes me to a new locale , and after two or three uses , I know the general layout enough that It 's not necessary anymore .
At least with sat-nav , the maps get updated .
With the old fold out maps , you had to rely on whenever that edition was printed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sat-nav has for the most part, helped me learn a new area faster than I would have with maps.
I've used it when business takes me to a new locale, and after two or three uses, I know the general layout enough that It's not necessary anymore.
At least with sat-nav, the maps get updated.
With the old fold out maps, you had to rely on whenever that edition was printed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637695</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247158560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You talk to google maps?</p><p>eh, ok...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You talk to google maps ? eh , ok.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You talk to google maps?eh, ok...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633271</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633297</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>N1AK</author>
	<datestamp>1247172900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Are there still signs on the side? If yes, you have everything you need to get anywhere.</p></div></blockquote><p>I was way behind the curve in getting a sat-nav even though it fits the kind of tech-gadget market that should interest me. You're absolutely right that a sat-nav isn't vital for travel, but then nor were road signs if you have a map, a map isn't important if someone wrote the route down for you and writing it down isn't required if you just remember it in your head....

<br> <br>The point of a sat-nav isn't to make the impossible possible, it is to provide a quick and easy way to do something and a safety blanket if you go wrong. I must of used my sat-nav 50+ times now and the only time it has been really advantageous was when I got caught in a 5 mile queue of still traffic at a junction between motorways. I got it to plan an alternative that didn't use the next motorway and got home virtually as fast as originally planned. Yes it would be possible to get my map out and look for alternatives, but sat-nav does it quickly, optimally and can compare distances and times more easily, what's there not to like?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Are there still signs on the side ?
If yes , you have everything you need to get anywhere.I was way behind the curve in getting a sat-nav even though it fits the kind of tech-gadget market that should interest me .
You 're absolutely right that a sat-nav is n't vital for travel , but then nor were road signs if you have a map , a map is n't important if someone wrote the route down for you and writing it down is n't required if you just remember it in your head... . The point of a sat-nav is n't to make the impossible possible , it is to provide a quick and easy way to do something and a safety blanket if you go wrong .
I must of used my sat-nav 50 + times now and the only time it has been really advantageous was when I got caught in a 5 mile queue of still traffic at a junction between motorways .
I got it to plan an alternative that did n't use the next motorway and got home virtually as fast as originally planned .
Yes it would be possible to get my map out and look for alternatives , but sat-nav does it quickly , optimally and can compare distances and times more easily , what 's there not to like ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are there still signs on the side?
If yes, you have everything you need to get anywhere.I was way behind the curve in getting a sat-nav even though it fits the kind of tech-gadget market that should interest me.
You're absolutely right that a sat-nav isn't vital for travel, but then nor were road signs if you have a map, a map isn't important if someone wrote the route down for you and writing it down isn't required if you just remember it in your head....

 The point of a sat-nav isn't to make the impossible possible, it is to provide a quick and easy way to do something and a safety blanket if you go wrong.
I must of used my sat-nav 50+ times now and the only time it has been really advantageous was when I got caught in a 5 mile queue of still traffic at a junction between motorways.
I got it to plan an alternative that didn't use the next motorway and got home virtually as fast as originally planned.
Yes it would be possible to get my map out and look for alternatives, but sat-nav does it quickly, optimally and can compare distances and times more easily, what's there not to like?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633303</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>Scytheford</author>
	<datestamp>1247173020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except speed-dial lists aren't subject to the sun's 11-year solar cycle. We've just passed through a solar activity minimum, during which everyone buying into this new gee-pee-ess tomfoolery is having a great time with their magic talky boxes that never guide them astray. Come a few years and the amount of solar radiation will return to its former values. We'll be seeing estimated position errors nudging the 30m mark, as opposed to the 5-10m we've been enjoying of late.</p><p>30m is more than enough to cause the occasional hiccup in road-snapping, at best causing a loss of faith in the system, at worst a loss of life.</p><p>I, for one, keep to the old ways. I keep a compass and a paper map in my car and have thusfar avoided buying a satnav for fear of blunting my orienteering skills gained through my time spent in Scouts. A valuable skill which I'm sure will keep me from hitting the wall when the revolution comes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except speed-dial lists are n't subject to the sun 's 11-year solar cycle .
We 've just passed through a solar activity minimum , during which everyone buying into this new gee-pee-ess tomfoolery is having a great time with their magic talky boxes that never guide them astray .
Come a few years and the amount of solar radiation will return to its former values .
We 'll be seeing estimated position errors nudging the 30m mark , as opposed to the 5-10m we 've been enjoying of late.30m is more than enough to cause the occasional hiccup in road-snapping , at best causing a loss of faith in the system , at worst a loss of life.I , for one , keep to the old ways .
I keep a compass and a paper map in my car and have thusfar avoided buying a satnav for fear of blunting my orienteering skills gained through my time spent in Scouts .
A valuable skill which I 'm sure will keep me from hitting the wall when the revolution comes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except speed-dial lists aren't subject to the sun's 11-year solar cycle.
We've just passed through a solar activity minimum, during which everyone buying into this new gee-pee-ess tomfoolery is having a great time with their magic talky boxes that never guide them astray.
Come a few years and the amount of solar radiation will return to its former values.
We'll be seeing estimated position errors nudging the 30m mark, as opposed to the 5-10m we've been enjoying of late.30m is more than enough to cause the occasional hiccup in road-snapping, at best causing a loss of faith in the system, at worst a loss of life.I, for one, keep to the old ways.
I keep a compass and a paper map in my car and have thusfar avoided buying a satnav for fear of blunting my orienteering skills gained through my time spent in Scouts.
A valuable skill which I'm sure will keep me from hitting the wall when the revolution comes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28641543</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>The Archon V2.0</author>
	<datestamp>1247130720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>At least on a map an alternate route is generally visible as you have a larger field of view.


Personally I'm at the "I'll never have one" stage with sat-nav at the moment.</p></div><p>Over-reliance on one person/object's advice is bad for anything.  For instance: I can use my city's (or Google's) transit planner to figure out a bus route from point A to point B, but there's times when it will give me some amazingly insane answers like a three-transfer trip because it missed something that's bleeding obvious to a human with a system map. On the other hand, a human with a system map can screw things up like holiday schedules vs. regular ones. A second opinion (either way) never hurts.</p><p>

Personally, I see nothing wrong with sat-nav. My dad uses one when he drives cross-country, since he sometimes has to get way off the beaten path to visit friends and family. But he's got a map (and a cell phone and a list of numbers, including the numbers of the people he's visiting) should it ever fail him. And it sometimes does. But sometimes he's got good and lost by following a cousin's directions simply because the cousin's own local knowledge was required to follow them properly. "No, that's not the big tree, if you had driven another mile you would have seen a tree that's much bigger. <i>That's</i> the big tree!" In those cases he's had to use his Garmin to get him where he was going.</p><p>

But I don't trust my data to a single data storage device, so I don't see why anyone should trust their route to a single route information device.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least on a map an alternate route is generally visible as you have a larger field of view .
Personally I 'm at the " I 'll never have one " stage with sat-nav at the moment.Over-reliance on one person/object 's advice is bad for anything .
For instance : I can use my city 's ( or Google 's ) transit planner to figure out a bus route from point A to point B , but there 's times when it will give me some amazingly insane answers like a three-transfer trip because it missed something that 's bleeding obvious to a human with a system map .
On the other hand , a human with a system map can screw things up like holiday schedules vs. regular ones .
A second opinion ( either way ) never hurts .
Personally , I see nothing wrong with sat-nav .
My dad uses one when he drives cross-country , since he sometimes has to get way off the beaten path to visit friends and family .
But he 's got a map ( and a cell phone and a list of numbers , including the numbers of the people he 's visiting ) should it ever fail him .
And it sometimes does .
But sometimes he 's got good and lost by following a cousin 's directions simply because the cousin 's own local knowledge was required to follow them properly .
" No , that 's not the big tree , if you had driven another mile you would have seen a tree that 's much bigger .
That 's the big tree !
" In those cases he 's had to use his Garmin to get him where he was going .
But I do n't trust my data to a single data storage device , so I do n't see why anyone should trust their route to a single route information device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least on a map an alternate route is generally visible as you have a larger field of view.
Personally I'm at the "I'll never have one" stage with sat-nav at the moment.Over-reliance on one person/object's advice is bad for anything.
For instance: I can use my city's (or Google's) transit planner to figure out a bus route from point A to point B, but there's times when it will give me some amazingly insane answers like a three-transfer trip because it missed something that's bleeding obvious to a human with a system map.
On the other hand, a human with a system map can screw things up like holiday schedules vs. regular ones.
A second opinion (either way) never hurts.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with sat-nav.
My dad uses one when he drives cross-country, since he sometimes has to get way off the beaten path to visit friends and family.
But he's got a map (and a cell phone and a list of numbers, including the numbers of the people he's visiting) should it ever fail him.
And it sometimes does.
But sometimes he's got good and lost by following a cousin's directions simply because the cousin's own local knowledge was required to follow them properly.
"No, that's not the big tree, if you had driven another mile you would have seen a tree that's much bigger.
That's the big tree!
" In those cases he's had to use his Garmin to get him where he was going.
But I don't trust my data to a single data storage device, so I don't see why anyone should trust their route to a single route information device.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636193</id>
	<title>satnav isn't as useful on a battlefield</title>
	<author>Ralph Spoilsport</author>
	<datestamp>1247153040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>or so I am told. A friend of mine (an officer in Marine Corp) put it to me this way: "I don't like computers over maps. Put a bullet in a map - what do you have? A map with a hole in it. Put a bullet in a computer - what have you got? A dead piece of junk. I prefer maps..."
<p>
Just reportin' the news as I find it...
</p><p>
RS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>or so I am told .
A friend of mine ( an officer in Marine Corp ) put it to me this way : " I do n't like computers over maps .
Put a bullet in a map - what do you have ?
A map with a hole in it .
Put a bullet in a computer - what have you got ?
A dead piece of junk .
I prefer maps... " Just reportin ' the news as I find it.. . RS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>or so I am told.
A friend of mine (an officer in Marine Corp) put it to me this way: "I don't like computers over maps.
Put a bullet in a map - what do you have?
A map with a hole in it.
Put a bullet in a computer - what have you got?
A dead piece of junk.
I prefer maps..."

Just reportin' the news as I find it...

RS</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28649381</id>
	<title>Google Maps and Street View</title>
	<author>jimbob666</author>
	<datestamp>1247239140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>GPS is one of things that for some reason I haven't taken a shine to. This annoys me because I see myself as embracing technology and progress in all walks of life, except this. Strange. I use a poor-man's GPS by printing out Google Maps with the route marked on and if it is multiple pages, taping them together.
<br> <br>
Personally I enjoy researching maps and satellite imagery of destinations. I find my method of studying sattellite imagery *really* helps when looking for landmarks around a new location, when I get there in real life I can relate to my surroundings.
<br> <br>
I was astounded when I used Google Street View for the first time to do a reccie on a location in Nottingham, UK. I 'walked' the last few miles of the virtual route and took in the surroundings (road signs and landmarks). When I arrived in real life It felt like I had been there already.</htmltext>
<tokenext>GPS is one of things that for some reason I have n't taken a shine to .
This annoys me because I see myself as embracing technology and progress in all walks of life , except this .
Strange. I use a poor-man 's GPS by printing out Google Maps with the route marked on and if it is multiple pages , taping them together .
Personally I enjoy researching maps and satellite imagery of destinations .
I find my method of studying sattellite imagery * really * helps when looking for landmarks around a new location , when I get there in real life I can relate to my surroundings .
I was astounded when I used Google Street View for the first time to do a reccie on a location in Nottingham , UK .
I 'walked ' the last few miles of the virtual route and took in the surroundings ( road signs and landmarks ) .
When I arrived in real life It felt like I had been there already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GPS is one of things that for some reason I haven't taken a shine to.
This annoys me because I see myself as embracing technology and progress in all walks of life, except this.
Strange. I use a poor-man's GPS by printing out Google Maps with the route marked on and if it is multiple pages, taping them together.
Personally I enjoy researching maps and satellite imagery of destinations.
I find my method of studying sattellite imagery *really* helps when looking for landmarks around a new location, when I get there in real life I can relate to my surroundings.
I was astounded when I used Google Street View for the first time to do a reccie on a location in Nottingham, UK.
I 'walked' the last few miles of the virtual route and took in the surroundings (road signs and landmarks).
When I arrived in real life It felt like I had been there already.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28642125</id>
	<title>Re:Agree to Disagree</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1247133420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007...</i></p><p>There was one, but the bimbo got you lost and would start prattling about world peace for no reason. I guess she's not popular for her brains.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007...There was one , but the bimbo got you lost and would start prattling about world peace for no reason .
I guess she 's not popular for her brains .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007...There was one, but the bimbo got you lost and would start prattling about world peace for no reason.
I guess she's not popular for her brains.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633097</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637989</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>Fallingcow</author>
	<datestamp>1247160000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why do people keep mentioning compasses?  How hard is it to figure out which way's which?</p><p>I mean, assuming you're on a road (we're mostly talking about driving) and you know where you are on the map (if you don't, the compass won't help you anyway), do you really need a compass to figure out which way's North?</p><p>Personally, I've never had a problem with this.  The only time I might find a compass useful would be if I didn't have a map and needed to make sure I was traveling more-or-less in one direction (to hit a straight, main road or something) but that's a very bizarre and specific set of circumstances (I'd have to know which direction something was from my present location, but also not have a map and not be familiar enough with the area to find my way without the compass)</p><p>Is there some awesome compass magic you can work with them that you can't do with a map alone (bearing in mind that we're talking about driving, not being dropped in the middle of the woods)?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do people keep mentioning compasses ?
How hard is it to figure out which way 's which ? I mean , assuming you 're on a road ( we 're mostly talking about driving ) and you know where you are on the map ( if you do n't , the compass wo n't help you anyway ) , do you really need a compass to figure out which way 's North ? Personally , I 've never had a problem with this .
The only time I might find a compass useful would be if I did n't have a map and needed to make sure I was traveling more-or-less in one direction ( to hit a straight , main road or something ) but that 's a very bizarre and specific set of circumstances ( I 'd have to know which direction something was from my present location , but also not have a map and not be familiar enough with the area to find my way without the compass ) Is there some awesome compass magic you can work with them that you ca n't do with a map alone ( bearing in mind that we 're talking about driving , not being dropped in the middle of the woods ) ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do people keep mentioning compasses?
How hard is it to figure out which way's which?I mean, assuming you're on a road (we're mostly talking about driving) and you know where you are on the map (if you don't, the compass won't help you anyway), do you really need a compass to figure out which way's North?Personally, I've never had a problem with this.
The only time I might find a compass useful would be if I didn't have a map and needed to make sure I was traveling more-or-less in one direction (to hit a straight, main road or something) but that's a very bizarre and specific set of circumstances (I'd have to know which direction something was from my present location, but also not have a map and not be familiar enough with the area to find my way without the compass)Is there some awesome compass magic you can work with them that you can't do with a map alone (bearing in mind that we're talking about driving, not being dropped in the middle of the woods)?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638261</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247161200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pssh... speak for yourself!  Maps don't run out of batteries when you're lost in the woods.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pssh... speak for yourself !
Maps do n't run out of batteries when you 're lost in the woods .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pssh... speak for yourself!
Maps don't run out of batteries when you're lost in the woods.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634569</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>nospam007</author>
	<datestamp>1247143500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list.</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>There is a difference.</p><p>Real men don't ask for directions, so GPS helps a lot.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list .
There is a difference.Real men do n't ask for directions , so GPS helps a lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list.
There is a difference.Real men don't ask for directions, so GPS helps a lot.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633089</id>
	<title>They want to send us</title>
	<author>VincenzoRomano</author>
	<datestamp>1247170260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Where they want to.<br>
Switch your satnav (and mobile phone and PDA)  off. And turn back on your brain!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where they want to .
Switch your satnav ( and mobile phone and PDA ) off .
And turn back on your brain !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where they want to.
Switch your satnav (and mobile phone and PDA)  off.
And turn back on your brain!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634387</id>
	<title>Re:We use them because they're better</title>
	<author>CmdrGravy</author>
	<datestamp>1247141340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>but if you are lost it's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you don't know where you are to start with</p></div></blockquote><p>No it's not, that's what map reading is all about. OK it might take you a couple of minutes but it's far from impossible.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>but if you are lost it 's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you do n't know where you are to start withNo it 's not , that 's what map reading is all about .
OK it might take you a couple of minutes but it 's far from impossible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but if you are lost it's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you don't know where you are to start withNo it's not, that's what map reading is all about.
OK it might take you a couple of minutes but it's far from impossible.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633937</id>
	<title>bull</title>
	<author>Zerikai</author>
	<datestamp>1247136660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I normally don't post here because there is far too much bullshit being spread, but I felt compelled by this article, as I feel it is a whole load of bullshit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I normally do n't post here because there is far too much bullshit being spread , but I felt compelled by this article , as I feel it is a whole load of bullshit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I normally don't post here because there is far too much bullshit being spread, but I felt compelled by this article, as I feel it is a whole load of bullshit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636909</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1247155380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I knew some guys who used to give directions via pub nav: left at the Red Lion, when you come to the White Swan take the second right after that...</p><p>It makes sense.  Pubs have big colourful signs, which are usually well lit and the names are normally unique within a town or area of a city.  And if you really get lost, you can go in and have a pint[1] while you ask directions.</p><p>[1] shandy, of course.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I knew some guys who used to give directions via pub nav : left at the Red Lion , when you come to the White Swan take the second right after that...It makes sense .
Pubs have big colourful signs , which are usually well lit and the names are normally unique within a town or area of a city .
And if you really get lost , you can go in and have a pint [ 1 ] while you ask directions .
[ 1 ] shandy , of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I knew some guys who used to give directions via pub nav: left at the Red Lion, when you come to the White Swan take the second right after that...It makes sense.
Pubs have big colourful signs, which are usually well lit and the names are normally unique within a town or area of a city.
And if you really get lost, you can go in and have a pint[1] while you ask directions.
[1] shandy, of course.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635575</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1247150400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So is reading a paper map.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So is reading a paper map .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So is reading a paper map.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633271</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633119</id>
	<title>Is Sat-Nav Destroying Local Knowledge?</title>
	<author>polle404</author>
	<datestamp>1247170620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>*dons tinfoil hat and tinfoil accessories*<br>Amahgawd! mapmakers and backseat navigators of the world unite and sue these sat-nav people!<br>It's just like the buggy coach whip makers!</p><p>sat-nav makes it safer to be on the road, now all those idiots driving with a 4' by 4' map over the stearingwheel can actually see where they're going. (that is, if they would stop txting while driving)</p><p>I'm sorry to say, i really don't feel my masculinity threatened in any way by a female voice telling me when to turn.<br>It does, however, alliviate some of the stress of urban driving in cities i don't know.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>* dons tinfoil hat and tinfoil accessories * Amahgawd !
mapmakers and backseat navigators of the world unite and sue these sat-nav people ! It 's just like the buggy coach whip makers ! sat-nav makes it safer to be on the road , now all those idiots driving with a 4 ' by 4 ' map over the stearingwheel can actually see where they 're going .
( that is , if they would stop txting while driving ) I 'm sorry to say , i really do n't feel my masculinity threatened in any way by a female voice telling me when to turn.It does , however , alliviate some of the stress of urban driving in cities i do n't know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>*dons tinfoil hat and tinfoil accessories*Amahgawd!
mapmakers and backseat navigators of the world unite and sue these sat-nav people!It's just like the buggy coach whip makers!sat-nav makes it safer to be on the road, now all those idiots driving with a 4' by 4' map over the stearingwheel can actually see where they're going.
(that is, if they would stop txting while driving)I'm sorry to say, i really don't feel my masculinity threatened in any way by a female voice telling me when to turn.It does, however, alliviate some of the stress of urban driving in cities i don't know.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633061</id>
	<title>speed dial</title>
	<author>ocularDeathRay</author>
	<datestamp>1247169780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list. Yes we did lose the ability to recite everybody's number, but we rarely miss it. If we don't have our cell phone we call information, if our satnav breaks we will use google maps on a smart phone.... in the long run its just no big deal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list .
Yes we did lose the ability to recite everybody 's number , but we rarely miss it .
If we do n't have our cell phone we call information , if our satnav breaks we will use google maps on a smart phone.... in the long run its just no big deal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list.
Yes we did lose the ability to recite everybody's number, but we rarely miss it.
If we don't have our cell phone we call information, if our satnav breaks we will use google maps on a smart phone.... in the long run its just no big deal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633321</id>
	<title>Real men don't use tools?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247130060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Local knowledge is just that - local. If you live there, you have the knowledge. How can GPS destroy that? And you know what? <i>The article does not argue how it does.</i> GPS is used for new routes. It's new knowledge. Nobody uses Sat-Nav repeatedly for the same destination.

</p><p>Sat-Nav and GPS are tools - the article poses a question akin to asking if real men don't use hammers. I wouldn't use one to open an egg, but I would use one to fix my stairs.

</p><p>I am as much a psychogeographer as anyone who loves to discover a city by getting lost in it, but if I am crossing the country (in my case, Belgium) to buy something, I would like to be efficient about getting there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Local knowledge is just that - local .
If you live there , you have the knowledge .
How can GPS destroy that ?
And you know what ?
The article does not argue how it does .
GPS is used for new routes .
It 's new knowledge .
Nobody uses Sat-Nav repeatedly for the same destination .
Sat-Nav and GPS are tools - the article poses a question akin to asking if real men do n't use hammers .
I would n't use one to open an egg , but I would use one to fix my stairs .
I am as much a psychogeographer as anyone who loves to discover a city by getting lost in it , but if I am crossing the country ( in my case , Belgium ) to buy something , I would like to be efficient about getting there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Local knowledge is just that - local.
If you live there, you have the knowledge.
How can GPS destroy that?
And you know what?
The article does not argue how it does.
GPS is used for new routes.
It's new knowledge.
Nobody uses Sat-Nav repeatedly for the same destination.
Sat-Nav and GPS are tools - the article poses a question akin to asking if real men don't use hammers.
I wouldn't use one to open an egg, but I would use one to fix my stairs.
I am as much a psychogeographer as anyone who loves to discover a city by getting lost in it, but if I am crossing the country (in my case, Belgium) to buy something, I would like to be efficient about getting there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634739</id>
	<title>Oh, progress</title>
	<author>CxDoo</author>
	<datestamp>1247145300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is not destroying \_local\_ knowledge. However it makes it possible not to learn a lot of useless \_not local\_ knowledge and still be able to move around.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is not destroying \ _local \ _ knowledge .
However it makes it possible not to learn a lot of useless \ _not local \ _ knowledge and still be able to move around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is not destroying \_local\_ knowledge.
However it makes it possible not to learn a lot of useless \_not local\_ knowledge and still be able to move around.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634407</id>
	<title>No need for such knowledge</title>
	<author>trickyD1ck</author>
	<datestamp>1247141700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>How many of you guys know how to shoe a horse? This was probably once considered knowledge every man should have.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How many of you guys know how to shoe a horse ?
This was probably once considered knowledge every man should have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many of you guys know how to shoe a horse?
This was probably once considered knowledge every man should have.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633129</id>
	<title>Allow be to be the first..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247170740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>to say Bullshit!</p><p>Ever think about how many cars DON'T have sat-nav in the world?</p><p>This guy is a perfect example of people nowadays writing articles without first using their brain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>to say Bullshit ! Ever think about how many cars DO N'T have sat-nav in the world ? This guy is a perfect example of people nowadays writing articles without first using their brain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to say Bullshit!Ever think about how many cars DON'T have sat-nav in the world?This guy is a perfect example of people nowadays writing articles without first using their brain.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634311</id>
	<title>Re:vital</title>
	<author>TaoPhoenix</author>
	<datestamp>1247140320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree. For me Satnav *is* vital for travel.</p><p>Someone hands you a fun destination four towns away... lookee, you don't have time to go home and net-map it! Sure, I MAY be able to fudge the destination adhoc, but I'd lose some half hour or more in the process, and too often that's the difference between being late and on time. In my lifestyle, being late *does* translate into nasty consequences.</p><p>I had previously given up going anywhere; now I am actively going places.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree .
For me Satnav * is * vital for travel.Someone hands you a fun destination four towns away... lookee , you do n't have time to go home and net-map it !
Sure , I MAY be able to fudge the destination adhoc , but I 'd lose some half hour or more in the process , and too often that 's the difference between being late and on time .
In my lifestyle , being late * does * translate into nasty consequences.I had previously given up going anywhere ; now I am actively going places .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree.
For me Satnav *is* vital for travel.Someone hands you a fun destination four towns away... lookee, you don't have time to go home and net-map it!
Sure, I MAY be able to fudge the destination adhoc, but I'd lose some half hour or more in the process, and too often that's the difference between being late and on time.
In my lifestyle, being late *does* translate into nasty consequences.I had previously given up going anywhere; now I am actively going places.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633297</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634403</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247141640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I don't know about you, but just talking on your phone whilst driving is considered dangerous.</i> </p><p>IMO, people that obviously don't know where they are going are consistently and pro-actively dangerous.  A talking/texting driver may not see a developing road hazard.  A lost driver often drives erratically stopping on high speed roads, makes sweeping lane changes without signalling, and the are seen backing up on ramps (!).  Also, you neglect to mention that driving itself is dangerous.  If a phone keeps me OFF the road or on the road for LESS time, then it is a net win.  We may wish that people did not communicate while driving, but this would not improve overall safety.  I can sit my butt where it is for hours on end because people can call me.  I don't need to be places "just in case".  Often, on-the-road coworkers call in to let us know they may be late for a meeting or whatnot.  7 out of 10 times the meeting is delayed regardless.  The point: rather than rushing in our cars everywhere, we make an eff-ing phone call.  Also, pulling over is not necessarily safer.  Being on the shoulder is NOT safe - it simply is not an accident scapegoat.  Changing lanes, NOT safe.  Unnecessary turns and ramp traversals: NOT safe.  Ultimately it is about what you are doing.  Are you using the tools before you - car, phone - to take care of business in an efficient manner?  Good.  Are you talking to your cousin who you already speak with for hours on end just to gab while you text regarding upcoming party plans?  Maybe not as good.  I would be 100x more concerned about people glued to their phones not for utilitarian purposes but because they can't stand the silence in their heads.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about you , but just talking on your phone whilst driving is considered dangerous .
IMO , people that obviously do n't know where they are going are consistently and pro-actively dangerous .
A talking/texting driver may not see a developing road hazard .
A lost driver often drives erratically stopping on high speed roads , makes sweeping lane changes without signalling , and the are seen backing up on ramps ( ! ) .
Also , you neglect to mention that driving itself is dangerous .
If a phone keeps me OFF the road or on the road for LESS time , then it is a net win .
We may wish that people did not communicate while driving , but this would not improve overall safety .
I can sit my butt where it is for hours on end because people can call me .
I do n't need to be places " just in case " .
Often , on-the-road coworkers call in to let us know they may be late for a meeting or whatnot .
7 out of 10 times the meeting is delayed regardless .
The point : rather than rushing in our cars everywhere , we make an eff-ing phone call .
Also , pulling over is not necessarily safer .
Being on the shoulder is NOT safe - it simply is not an accident scapegoat .
Changing lanes , NOT safe .
Unnecessary turns and ramp traversals : NOT safe .
Ultimately it is about what you are doing .
Are you using the tools before you - car , phone - to take care of business in an efficient manner ?
Good. Are you talking to your cousin who you already speak with for hours on end just to gab while you text regarding upcoming party plans ?
Maybe not as good .
I would be 100x more concerned about people glued to their phones not for utilitarian purposes but because they ca n't stand the silence in their heads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about you, but just talking on your phone whilst driving is considered dangerous.
IMO, people that obviously don't know where they are going are consistently and pro-actively dangerous.
A talking/texting driver may not see a developing road hazard.
A lost driver often drives erratically stopping on high speed roads, makes sweeping lane changes without signalling, and the are seen backing up on ramps (!).
Also, you neglect to mention that driving itself is dangerous.
If a phone keeps me OFF the road or on the road for LESS time, then it is a net win.
We may wish that people did not communicate while driving, but this would not improve overall safety.
I can sit my butt where it is for hours on end because people can call me.
I don't need to be places "just in case".
Often, on-the-road coworkers call in to let us know they may be late for a meeting or whatnot.
7 out of 10 times the meeting is delayed regardless.
The point: rather than rushing in our cars everywhere, we make an eff-ing phone call.
Also, pulling over is not necessarily safer.
Being on the shoulder is NOT safe - it simply is not an accident scapegoat.
Changing lanes, NOT safe.
Unnecessary turns and ramp traversals: NOT safe.
Ultimately it is about what you are doing.
Are you using the tools before you - car, phone - to take care of business in an efficient manner?
Good.  Are you talking to your cousin who you already speak with for hours on end just to gab while you text regarding upcoming party plans?
Maybe not as good.
I would be 100x more concerned about people glued to their phones not for utilitarian purposes but because they can't stand the silence in their heads.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633271</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634235</id>
	<title>Are Slashdot and Lifehacker this desperate?</title>
	<author>kms\_one</author>
	<datestamp>1247139540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lots of completely irrelevant and nonsensical posts lately seem to indicate a lull in news, politics, and pop culture....I blame Michael Jackson. He should have died years ago and we could have dispensed with all the nonsense then.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lots of completely irrelevant and nonsensical posts lately seem to indicate a lull in news , politics , and pop culture....I blame Michael Jackson .
He should have died years ago and we could have dispensed with all the nonsense then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lots of completely irrelevant and nonsensical posts lately seem to indicate a lull in news, politics, and pop culture....I blame Michael Jackson.
He should have died years ago and we could have dispensed with all the nonsense then.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634427</id>
	<title>Re:Soul-less</title>
	<author>Registered Coward v2</author>
	<datestamp>1247141820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> I'm sure the next generation won't even know what the phrase "getting lost" really means, just as being "out of contact" will have no meaning to them. A map will be about as useful to them as a sextant is to us (what? You sold yours on Ebay years ago? Shameful!). And personally, I wish them all the best with it!</p></div><p>While a sextant is not easily used on land; it is a critical skill to have at sea.  What happens when the sat nav or Loran goes away?  DR your way to home?  Technology doesn't end teh need for older skills; in fact I think it's often important to retain them because technology doesn't always work and if you become relienat on it to the point where you cannot function without it you're in real trouble when it fails.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure the next generation wo n't even know what the phrase " getting lost " really means , just as being " out of contact " will have no meaning to them .
A map will be about as useful to them as a sextant is to us ( what ?
You sold yours on Ebay years ago ?
Shameful ! ) . And personally , I wish them all the best with it ! While a sextant is not easily used on land ; it is a critical skill to have at sea .
What happens when the sat nav or Loran goes away ?
DR your way to home ?
Technology does n't end teh need for older skills ; in fact I think it 's often important to retain them because technology does n't always work and if you become relienat on it to the point where you can not function without it you 're in real trouble when it fails .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I'm sure the next generation won't even know what the phrase "getting lost" really means, just as being "out of contact" will have no meaning to them.
A map will be about as useful to them as a sextant is to us (what?
You sold yours on Ebay years ago?
Shameful!). And personally, I wish them all the best with it!While a sextant is not easily used on land; it is a critical skill to have at sea.
What happens when the sat nav or Loran goes away?
DR your way to home?
Technology doesn't end teh need for older skills; in fact I think it's often important to retain them because technology doesn't always work and if you become relienat on it to the point where you cannot function without it you're in real trouble when it fails.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634987</id>
	<title>Not just directions, but POI's too...</title>
	<author>BlueScreenOfTOM</author>
	<datestamp>1247147220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In a semi-related note, one of the things I miss about the pre-GPS (and even pre-Internet days) was the adventure of driving around a new place and stumbling on hidden gems.  I'd love to do that in this day and age, but my girlfriend absolutely refuses to go to any resturants (for example) without doing some kind of online/zagat research first.  Her rationale is "why should we waste our time going to some crappy restaurant when the Internet could have told us it was crappy before we even went?"  While I sort of agree, sometimes I love restaurants that many online reviewers don't, and vice-versa.  When we moved to a more upscale neighborhood, the only restaurants getting good reviews were ones that cost $75+ for a couple, and now she doesn't want to go anywhere!
<br> <br>
I know I know, sounds like a personal problem.  Still, I see a lot of public perceptions changing based on information available online and in GPS units.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a semi-related note , one of the things I miss about the pre-GPS ( and even pre-Internet days ) was the adventure of driving around a new place and stumbling on hidden gems .
I 'd love to do that in this day and age , but my girlfriend absolutely refuses to go to any resturants ( for example ) without doing some kind of online/zagat research first .
Her rationale is " why should we waste our time going to some crappy restaurant when the Internet could have told us it was crappy before we even went ?
" While I sort of agree , sometimes I love restaurants that many online reviewers do n't , and vice-versa .
When we moved to a more upscale neighborhood , the only restaurants getting good reviews were ones that cost $ 75 + for a couple , and now she does n't want to go anywhere !
I know I know , sounds like a personal problem .
Still , I see a lot of public perceptions changing based on information available online and in GPS units .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a semi-related note, one of the things I miss about the pre-GPS (and even pre-Internet days) was the adventure of driving around a new place and stumbling on hidden gems.
I'd love to do that in this day and age, but my girlfriend absolutely refuses to go to any resturants (for example) without doing some kind of online/zagat research first.
Her rationale is "why should we waste our time going to some crappy restaurant when the Internet could have told us it was crappy before we even went?
"  While I sort of agree, sometimes I love restaurants that many online reviewers don't, and vice-versa.
When we moved to a more upscale neighborhood, the only restaurants getting good reviews were ones that cost $75+ for a couple, and now she doesn't want to go anywhere!
I know I know, sounds like a personal problem.
Still, I see a lot of public perceptions changing based on information available online and in GPS units.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636495</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247153820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you're missing the point on this one. It's not that our ability to travel isn't being helped by GPS - much like the invention of speed dial it is likely improving our capacity as humans. But instead of actively observing where we're going, we robotically respond to the directions our computer feeds us. What we lose is appreciation for our surroundings, which is arguably one of the few things holding us to this world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you 're missing the point on this one .
It 's not that our ability to travel is n't being helped by GPS - much like the invention of speed dial it is likely improving our capacity as humans .
But instead of actively observing where we 're going , we robotically respond to the directions our computer feeds us .
What we lose is appreciation for our surroundings , which is arguably one of the few things holding us to this world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you're missing the point on this one.
It's not that our ability to travel isn't being helped by GPS - much like the invention of speed dial it is likely improving our capacity as humans.
But instead of actively observing where we're going, we robotically respond to the directions our computer feeds us.
What we lose is appreciation for our surroundings, which is arguably one of the few things holding us to this world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634915</id>
	<title>Satnav improvements</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247146560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about a Satnav that localised its accent when you drove into different areas?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about a Satnav that localised its accent when you drove into different areas ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about a Satnav that localised its accent when you drove into different areas?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633207</id>
	<title>Sorry, which planet Earth? -sextants still in use</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247171640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Believe me, sextants are still in use. You don't think serious sailors don't know how to use them? Here in the UK, port towns usually have classes available in stellar navigation and the use of the sextant, and all the marine chandlers I use still sell them, including cheap training ones for kids.<p>One good solar flare and no GPS and VHF for a while. Did you realise that? Solar storms in the past have gone on for days, which is a long time to be without navigational aids. Your hurrahing for technology is misplaced. Yes I have GPS, yes I keep conventional maps and compass in the car as a backup. I've known too many people drive around London for ages because they were in an urban canyon and the GPS could not distinguish parallel streets. Our problem around here is Bulgarian and Polish drivers who use car GPS until they find themselves as a T-junction too small for their Actic (semi) to get round, unable to reverse, and have to pay a local farmer to drag out their trailer with a tractor. Great fun unless they're blocking your way home. </p><p>(As for "taking pictures will steal souls", can I just point you at the late Michael Jackson, an obvious case of the phenomenon? I think it was Terry Pratchett who observed something like "the idea that taking pictures steals souls is held only by primitive tribes and advanced psychologists".)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Believe me , sextants are still in use .
You do n't think serious sailors do n't know how to use them ?
Here in the UK , port towns usually have classes available in stellar navigation and the use of the sextant , and all the marine chandlers I use still sell them , including cheap training ones for kids.One good solar flare and no GPS and VHF for a while .
Did you realise that ?
Solar storms in the past have gone on for days , which is a long time to be without navigational aids .
Your hurrahing for technology is misplaced .
Yes I have GPS , yes I keep conventional maps and compass in the car as a backup .
I 've known too many people drive around London for ages because they were in an urban canyon and the GPS could not distinguish parallel streets .
Our problem around here is Bulgarian and Polish drivers who use car GPS until they find themselves as a T-junction too small for their Actic ( semi ) to get round , unable to reverse , and have to pay a local farmer to drag out their trailer with a tractor .
Great fun unless they 're blocking your way home .
( As for " taking pictures will steal souls " , can I just point you at the late Michael Jackson , an obvious case of the phenomenon ?
I think it was Terry Pratchett who observed something like " the idea that taking pictures steals souls is held only by primitive tribes and advanced psychologists " .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Believe me, sextants are still in use.
You don't think serious sailors don't know how to use them?
Here in the UK, port towns usually have classes available in stellar navigation and the use of the sextant, and all the marine chandlers I use still sell them, including cheap training ones for kids.One good solar flare and no GPS and VHF for a while.
Did you realise that?
Solar storms in the past have gone on for days, which is a long time to be without navigational aids.
Your hurrahing for technology is misplaced.
Yes I have GPS, yes I keep conventional maps and compass in the car as a backup.
I've known too many people drive around London for ages because they were in an urban canyon and the GPS could not distinguish parallel streets.
Our problem around here is Bulgarian and Polish drivers who use car GPS until they find themselves as a T-junction too small for their Actic (semi) to get round, unable to reverse, and have to pay a local farmer to drag out their trailer with a tractor.
Great fun unless they're blocking your way home.
(As for "taking pictures will steal souls", can I just point you at the late Michael Jackson, an obvious case of the phenomenon?
I think it was Terry Pratchett who observed something like "the idea that taking pictures steals souls is held only by primitive tribes and advanced psychologists".
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634043</id>
	<title>Re:Sure.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247137680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>At midnight in an unknown town after fighting 3 hours with a bike tire from hell I want to be knocking on stranger's doors and ask for directions<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>Don't forget to mention that you have to care for your expensive smartphone the rest of the 100s of hours everything went fine. There's nothing as relaxing as constantly making sure it's still there.</p><p>It's a good thing we can avoid having to interact with real humans, those old-fashioned relics! Modern interaction is all about posting your mood on Facebook, sending automated "I'm afk messages" via IM programs and using pregenerated "How are you?" texts.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>At midnight in an unknown town after fighting 3 hours with a bike tire from hell I want to be knocking on stranger 's doors and ask for directions ...Do n't forget to mention that you have to care for your expensive smartphone the rest of the 100s of hours everything went fine .
There 's nothing as relaxing as constantly making sure it 's still there.It 's a good thing we can avoid having to interact with real humans , those old-fashioned relics !
Modern interaction is all about posting your mood on Facebook , sending automated " I 'm afk messages " via IM programs and using pregenerated " How are you ?
" texts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At midnight in an unknown town after fighting 3 hours with a bike tire from hell I want to be knocking on stranger's doors and ask for directions ...Don't forget to mention that you have to care for your expensive smartphone the rest of the 100s of hours everything went fine.
There's nothing as relaxing as constantly making sure it's still there.It's a good thing we can avoid having to interact with real humans, those old-fashioned relics!
Modern interaction is all about posting your mood on Facebook, sending automated "I'm afk messages" via IM programs and using pregenerated "How are you?
" texts.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637777</id>
	<title>Re:Agree to Disagree</title>
	<author>c</author>
	<datestamp>1247158980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007...</p><p>"Oh... did you... like, maybe you should have turned left back there at the stop sign? Or, like, was that a red light?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007... " Oh... did you... like , maybe you should have turned left back there at the stop sign ?
Or , like , was that a red light ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007..."Oh... did you... like, maybe you should have turned left back there at the stop sign?
Or, like, was that a red light?
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633097</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633149</id>
	<title>It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>bschorr</author>
	<datestamp>1247170920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat.  When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like. These days kids just stare at the screen in the headrest in front of them from the time they pull away until they get where they're going.  I'll bet half of them couldn't find their way home if you dropped them off two blocks away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat .
When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like .
These days kids just stare at the screen in the headrest in front of them from the time they pull away until they get where they 're going .
I 'll bet half of them could n't find their way home if you dropped them off two blocks away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat.
When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like.
These days kids just stare at the screen in the headrest in front of them from the time they pull away until they get where they're going.
I'll bet half of them couldn't find their way home if you dropped them off two blocks away.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633523</id>
	<title>Re:Map on TomTom</title>
	<author>sFurbo</author>
	<datestamp>1247132760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I like the map as it gives me an overview of the next few turns. And I use it to judge which off-ramp is the right one, the one I need makes a 180 degree turn, so it must be that one. The directions is good enough for this, but I like to be sure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I like the map as it gives me an overview of the next few turns .
And I use it to judge which off-ramp is the right one , the one I need makes a 180 degree turn , so it must be that one .
The directions is good enough for this , but I like to be sure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like the map as it gives me an overview of the next few turns.
And I use it to judge which off-ramp is the right one, the one I need makes a 180 degree turn, so it must be that one.
The directions is good enough for this, but I like to be sure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633165</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28642321</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>santix</author>
	<datestamp>1247134380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I understand you, the same happens to me. I used to listen to music and read in the car and now  that I drive alone (before my parents did the navigation) I have a hard time knowing all the street names.

I was thinking about asking a GPS for my birthday, but maybe I'll study a couple of maps and ask something else.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I understand you , the same happens to me .
I used to listen to music and read in the car and now that I drive alone ( before my parents did the navigation ) I have a hard time knowing all the street names .
I was thinking about asking a GPS for my birthday , but maybe I 'll study a couple of maps and ask something else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I understand you, the same happens to me.
I used to listen to music and read in the car and now  that I drive alone (before my parents did the navigation) I have a hard time knowing all the street names.
I was thinking about asking a GPS for my birthday, but maybe I'll study a couple of maps and ask something else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633489</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636581</id>
	<title>Re:Real men don't use tools?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247154180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is, people DO use Sat-Nav repeatedly for the same destination. Last year I visited a friend in Santa Fe-- she had been living there for two or three months, and after a day and a half I knew my way around the city, and knew where landmarks were, better than she did. The whole time she had been just blindly following her gps, which, incidentally, led her on very odd and circuitous routes.</p><p>It doesn't take long to more or less memorize the map for a small-ish city, especially if driving around a lot. It's 15 minutes probably worth spending.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is , people DO use Sat-Nav repeatedly for the same destination .
Last year I visited a friend in Santa Fe-- she had been living there for two or three months , and after a day and a half I knew my way around the city , and knew where landmarks were , better than she did .
The whole time she had been just blindly following her gps , which , incidentally , led her on very odd and circuitous routes.It does n't take long to more or less memorize the map for a small-ish city , especially if driving around a lot .
It 's 15 minutes probably worth spending .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is, people DO use Sat-Nav repeatedly for the same destination.
Last year I visited a friend in Santa Fe-- she had been living there for two or three months, and after a day and a half I knew my way around the city, and knew where landmarks were, better than she did.
The whole time she had been just blindly following her gps, which, incidentally, led her on very odd and circuitous routes.It doesn't take long to more or less memorize the map for a small-ish city, especially if driving around a lot.
It's 15 minutes probably worth spending.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635457</id>
	<title>Re:Is Sat-Nav Destroying Local Knowledge?</title>
	<author>johnlcallaway</author>
	<datestamp>1247149800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I lead a motorcycle group of over 450 people.  We ride our motorcycles all over the area surrounding Phoenix, Az. I personally put between 15,000 and 20,000 miles on my bike every year.
<br> <br>
I started to use a GPS on our trips because when you need to get 30 bikes ready for a left turn, it's nice to know it's two miles ahead instead of waiting for the sign to show up.  Plus, it's really hard to read a map while you riding a motorcycle, the wind tends to move it all around unless you use a tank bag.
<br> <br>
I moved to Phoenix 6 years ago, and can now ride my motorcycle anywhere in this beautiful state or the Phoenix metro area without a map or GPS.  The GPS and the mapping software on my PC have helped me to design routes much easier than I could have with a map. I can use Google maps to get a satellite view of roads and determine if they are dirt or not.
<br> <br>
These tools have helped improve my local knowledge, not lessen it.
<br> <br>
My wife has similar experience in her car.  Her GPS has given her the confidence to go into areas in Phoenix with the knowledge that she will be able to get there safely. With that experience, she has gained a better understanding of the Phoenix area.
<br> <br>
The above notes, while anecdotal, indicate that for some people, the GPS helps them learn the area.
<br> <br>
Maybe it's all about how smart or observant the person using it is to begin with. Smart people learn faster without effort, and observant people notice their surroundings without having to work at it. I've always been good at finding my way back to a place after I've been there once or twice, even if someone else was driving. So maybe I'm just naturally more observant that those that don't learn their local area when using a GPS.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I lead a motorcycle group of over 450 people .
We ride our motorcycles all over the area surrounding Phoenix , Az .
I personally put between 15,000 and 20,000 miles on my bike every year .
I started to use a GPS on our trips because when you need to get 30 bikes ready for a left turn , it 's nice to know it 's two miles ahead instead of waiting for the sign to show up .
Plus , it 's really hard to read a map while you riding a motorcycle , the wind tends to move it all around unless you use a tank bag .
I moved to Phoenix 6 years ago , and can now ride my motorcycle anywhere in this beautiful state or the Phoenix metro area without a map or GPS .
The GPS and the mapping software on my PC have helped me to design routes much easier than I could have with a map .
I can use Google maps to get a satellite view of roads and determine if they are dirt or not .
These tools have helped improve my local knowledge , not lessen it .
My wife has similar experience in her car .
Her GPS has given her the confidence to go into areas in Phoenix with the knowledge that she will be able to get there safely .
With that experience , she has gained a better understanding of the Phoenix area .
The above notes , while anecdotal , indicate that for some people , the GPS helps them learn the area .
Maybe it 's all about how smart or observant the person using it is to begin with .
Smart people learn faster without effort , and observant people notice their surroundings without having to work at it .
I 've always been good at finding my way back to a place after I 've been there once or twice , even if someone else was driving .
So maybe I 'm just naturally more observant that those that do n't learn their local area when using a GPS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I lead a motorcycle group of over 450 people.
We ride our motorcycles all over the area surrounding Phoenix, Az.
I personally put between 15,000 and 20,000 miles on my bike every year.
I started to use a GPS on our trips because when you need to get 30 bikes ready for a left turn, it's nice to know it's two miles ahead instead of waiting for the sign to show up.
Plus, it's really hard to read a map while you riding a motorcycle, the wind tends to move it all around unless you use a tank bag.
I moved to Phoenix 6 years ago, and can now ride my motorcycle anywhere in this beautiful state or the Phoenix metro area without a map or GPS.
The GPS and the mapping software on my PC have helped me to design routes much easier than I could have with a map.
I can use Google maps to get a satellite view of roads and determine if they are dirt or not.
These tools have helped improve my local knowledge, not lessen it.
My wife has similar experience in her car.
Her GPS has given her the confidence to go into areas in Phoenix with the knowledge that she will be able to get there safely.
With that experience, she has gained a better understanding of the Phoenix area.
The above notes, while anecdotal, indicate that for some people, the GPS helps them learn the area.
Maybe it's all about how smart or observant the person using it is to begin with.
Smart people learn faster without effort, and observant people notice their surroundings without having to work at it.
I've always been good at finding my way back to a place after I've been there once or twice, even if someone else was driving.
So maybe I'm just naturally more observant that those that don't learn their local area when using a GPS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633053</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633217</id>
	<title>Sure.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247171700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At midnight in an unknown town after fighting 3 hours with a bike tire from hell I want to be knocking on stranger's doors and ask for directions instead of firing up Google Maps on my cell and find my way myself.  (Wait, that's GSM-nav.  Does that count?)</p><p>Incidentally, I planned my route with a good old fashioned map, because online resources for bike routes in Germany suck ass.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At midnight in an unknown town after fighting 3 hours with a bike tire from hell I want to be knocking on stranger 's doors and ask for directions instead of firing up Google Maps on my cell and find my way myself .
( Wait , that 's GSM-nav .
Does that count ?
) Incidentally , I planned my route with a good old fashioned map , because online resources for bike routes in Germany suck ass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At midnight in an unknown town after fighting 3 hours with a bike tire from hell I want to be knocking on stranger's doors and ask for directions instead of firing up Google Maps on my cell and find my way myself.
(Wait, that's GSM-nav.
Does that count?
)Incidentally, I planned my route with a good old fashioned map, because online resources for bike routes in Germany suck ass.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633307</id>
	<title>Au contraire</title>
	<author>MadUndergrad</author>
	<datestamp>1247173080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I find that having a GPS makes it easier to learn the local streets, since it shows me where I am on the map at all times. Otherwise I have to spend all my time trying to figure our what that tiny street sign says and I miss everything else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I find that having a GPS makes it easier to learn the local streets , since it shows me where I am on the map at all times .
Otherwise I have to spend all my time trying to figure our what that tiny street sign says and I miss everything else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find that having a GPS makes it easier to learn the local streets, since it shows me where I am on the map at all times.
Otherwise I have to spend all my time trying to figure our what that tiny street sign says and I miss everything else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637185</id>
	<title>Grrr...</title>
	<author>VoidCrow</author>
	<datestamp>1247156340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Have you ever noticed how many non-technical writers use the word 'Cartesian' like an insult? Dipshits.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you ever noticed how many non-technical writers use the word 'Cartesian ' like an insult ?
Dipshits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you ever noticed how many non-technical writers use the word 'Cartesian' like an insult?
Dipshits.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634167</id>
	<title>Re:Worst. Directions. Ever.</title>
	<author>petes\_PoV</author>
	<datestamp>1247139060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Any directions that start with "You can't miss it" should be immediately disregarded. The direction-giver is telling you straight away that they are so familiar with a destination that they drive there on autopilot and therefore have no actual clue about what signposts, landmarks or other indicators exist - except in their mis-remembered minds.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Any directions that start with " You ca n't miss it " should be immediately disregarded .
The direction-giver is telling you straight away that they are so familiar with a destination that they drive there on autopilot and therefore have no actual clue about what signposts , landmarks or other indicators exist - except in their mis-remembered minds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any directions that start with "You can't miss it" should be immediately disregarded.
The direction-giver is telling you straight away that they are so familiar with a destination that they drive there on autopilot and therefore have no actual clue about what signposts, landmarks or other indicators exist - except in their mis-remembered minds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633631</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633373</id>
	<title>No one use GPS to navigate to local places.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247130900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What local knowledge? No one use GPS to navigate to local places. We use GPS to go places we have no knowledge of. I drove through Austria, Germany, Denmark, Sweeden, Norway this summer without any problem.  Last time I did the same 5 years ago I had to spend a full day over the map figuring out the best way to go. Making notes of motorway exits and stuff. And still at every stop I was reading maps, because roads change gets closed etc.</p><p>The other thing is that the just because you use satnav you still have to look at the road ahead. If you can not remember which turn you have taken just because somebody has told you "take the second one" then you have more serious problems than SatNav can solve.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What local knowledge ?
No one use GPS to navigate to local places .
We use GPS to go places we have no knowledge of .
I drove through Austria , Germany , Denmark , Sweeden , Norway this summer without any problem .
Last time I did the same 5 years ago I had to spend a full day over the map figuring out the best way to go .
Making notes of motorway exits and stuff .
And still at every stop I was reading maps , because roads change gets closed etc.The other thing is that the just because you use satnav you still have to look at the road ahead .
If you can not remember which turn you have taken just because somebody has told you " take the second one " then you have more serious problems than SatNav can solve .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What local knowledge?
No one use GPS to navigate to local places.
We use GPS to go places we have no knowledge of.
I drove through Austria, Germany, Denmark, Sweeden, Norway this summer without any problem.
Last time I did the same 5 years ago I had to spend a full day over the map figuring out the best way to go.
Making notes of motorway exits and stuff.
And still at every stop I was reading maps, because roads change gets closed etc.The other thing is that the just because you use satnav you still have to look at the road ahead.
If you can not remember which turn you have taken just because somebody has told you "take the second one" then you have more serious problems than SatNav can solve.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633465</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>Stuarticus</author>
	<datestamp>1247131860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's all very well for those who use it occasionally, but recently when driving with my boss I realised that due to his over-reliance on sat-nav he was driving 10 miles out of his way to get home on a regular basis (on a journey of approx 50 miles).<br>
<br>
 He didn't even realise there was a shorter route.<br>
<br>
 At least on a map an alternate route is generally visible as you have a larger field of view.<br>
<br>
 Personally I'm at the "I'll never have one" stage with sat-nav at the moment.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's all very well for those who use it occasionally , but recently when driving with my boss I realised that due to his over-reliance on sat-nav he was driving 10 miles out of his way to get home on a regular basis ( on a journey of approx 50 miles ) .
He did n't even realise there was a shorter route .
At least on a map an alternate route is generally visible as you have a larger field of view .
Personally I 'm at the " I 'll never have one " stage with sat-nav at the moment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's all very well for those who use it occasionally, but recently when driving with my boss I realised that due to his over-reliance on sat-nav he was driving 10 miles out of his way to get home on a regular basis (on a journey of approx 50 miles).
He didn't even realise there was a shorter route.
At least on a map an alternate route is generally visible as you have a larger field of view.
Personally I'm at the "I'll never have one" stage with sat-nav at the moment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633297</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634431</id>
	<title>Re:Just one more whiny kumbaya nonsense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247141880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>yeah.... still though... I know a guy who will NOT leave without his nav.&nbsp; He'll get anxious if he's gotta leave without one.<br><br>The old skills will survive... I ride a motorcycle... no map, no satnav... I check before I leave and memorize... it has worked for me for 15 years... I won't change it until I have friggin alzheimer or something.<br><br>Funny the summary mentions calligraphy.&nbsp; I've recently picked up on that and made something for a girl.&nbsp; I'm telling you... it might sound weird... but in this digital age full of word documents and photoshop... people still seem to recognize and appreciate the effort.&nbsp; She loved it.<br><br></tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>yeah.... still though... I know a guy who will NOT leave without his nav.   He 'll get anxious if he 's got ta leave without one.The old skills will survive... I ride a motorcycle... no map , no satnav... I check before I leave and memorize... it has worked for me for 15 years... I wo n't change it until I have friggin alzheimer or something.Funny the summary mentions calligraphy.   I 've recently picked up on that and made something for a girl.   I 'm telling you... it might sound weird... but in this digital age full of word documents and photoshop... people still seem to recognize and appreciate the effort.   She loved it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yeah.... still though... I know a guy who will NOT leave without his nav.  He'll get anxious if he's gotta leave without one.The old skills will survive... I ride a motorcycle... no map, no satnav... I check before I leave and memorize... it has worked for me for 15 years... I won't change it until I have friggin alzheimer or something.Funny the summary mentions calligraphy.  I've recently picked up on that and made something for a girl.  I'm telling you... it might sound weird... but in this digital age full of word documents and photoshop... people still seem to recognize and appreciate the effort.  She loved it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28642091</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>Just Some Guy</author>
	<datestamp>1247133300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat. When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like.</p></div><p>When you were a kid, were you strapped into a <a href="http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product\_id=10099830" title="walmart.com">government-mandated, reclined, winged cocoon</a> [walmart.com]?  It's not so bad now that my kids are older, but I can't blame them for wanting to play their DSes during the 17-hour drive to the in-laws'.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat .
When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like.When you were a kid , were you strapped into a government-mandated , reclined , winged cocoon [ walmart.com ] ?
It 's not so bad now that my kids are older , but I ca n't blame them for wanting to play their DSes during the 17-hour drive to the in-laws' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat.
When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like.When you were a kid, were you strapped into a government-mandated, reclined, winged cocoon [walmart.com]?
It's not so bad now that my kids are older, but I can't blame them for wanting to play their DSes during the 17-hour drive to the in-laws'.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633999</id>
	<title>Don't know about Sat-nav</title>
	<author>captainpanic</author>
	<datestamp>1247137320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But Google maps sure as hell <i>increased</i> my local knowledge. I like staring at maps. I like to pick a spot, and go there by bike.<br>I could see that a sat-nav on a bike will make one more courageous to explore the local area... and if you're one of those polluting road-jamming filthy bastards, you might explore the region by car...</p><p>If you look at it like that, sat-nav increases local knowledge.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But Google maps sure as hell increased my local knowledge .
I like staring at maps .
I like to pick a spot , and go there by bike.I could see that a sat-nav on a bike will make one more courageous to explore the local area... and if you 're one of those polluting road-jamming filthy bastards , you might explore the region by car...If you look at it like that , sat-nav increases local knowledge .
: D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But Google maps sure as hell increased my local knowledge.
I like staring at maps.
I like to pick a spot, and go there by bike.I could see that a sat-nav on a bike will make one more courageous to explore the local area... and if you're one of those polluting road-jamming filthy bastards, you might explore the region by car...If you look at it like that, sat-nav increases local knowledge.
:D</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633283</id>
	<title>Meh. It's local knowledge for *everyone*</title>
	<author>Colin Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1247172660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With Nokia Maps/Ovi Maps, Nokia for example are making it possible to both know exactly where you are, but also where everything you are interested in round about you is, how to get to it and making it possible to share it instantly with anyone else you think might be interested.</p><p>It's the end of the locality of local knowledge. Not of the locality or of the knowledge itself. Or put another way, local knowledge goes global.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With Nokia Maps/Ovi Maps , Nokia for example are making it possible to both know exactly where you are , but also where everything you are interested in round about you is , how to get to it and making it possible to share it instantly with anyone else you think might be interested.It 's the end of the locality of local knowledge .
Not of the locality or of the knowledge itself .
Or put another way , local knowledge goes global .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With Nokia Maps/Ovi Maps, Nokia for example are making it possible to both know exactly where you are, but also where everything you are interested in round about you is, how to get to it and making it possible to share it instantly with anyone else you think might be interested.It's the end of the locality of local knowledge.
Not of the locality or of the knowledge itself.
Or put another way, local knowledge goes global.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633053</id>
	<title>Is Sat-Nav Destroying Local Knowledge?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247083080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>PROBABLY.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PROBABLY .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PROBABLY.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633327</id>
	<title>Some disturbing truth to this</title>
	<author>rastoboy29</author>
	<datestamp>1247130180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>I'm appalled in recent years at people who refuse to even *listen* to directions from me, a competent human who knows how to tell you how to get where you need to go--because they have a TomTom.&nbsp; I've actually, multiple times given people directions to my home over the phone, step by step and very simple, but then they end up calling me for help because they weren't listening and now they're lost.&nbsp; Even when I tell them that my street name exists for several streets in the Houston area, and that I know their TomTom can't be trusted, they still blithely follow it.<br><br>This wouldn't surprise me so much accept some of these folks are supposed to be computer geeks, who have no illusions about the magical powers of computers and software.&nbsp; Are people lazy or what?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-/</tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm appalled in recent years at people who refuse to even * listen * to directions from me , a competent human who knows how to tell you how to get where you need to go--because they have a TomTom.   I 've actually , multiple times given people directions to my home over the phone , step by step and very simple , but then they end up calling me for help because they were n't listening and now they 're lost.   Even when I tell them that my street name exists for several streets in the Houston area , and that I know their TomTom ca n't be trusted , they still blithely follow it.This would n't surprise me so much accept some of these folks are supposed to be computer geeks , who have no illusions about the magical powers of computers and software.   Are people lazy or what ?
; -/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm appalled in recent years at people who refuse to even *listen* to directions from me, a competent human who knows how to tell you how to get where you need to go--because they have a TomTom.  I've actually, multiple times given people directions to my home over the phone, step by step and very simple, but then they end up calling me for help because they weren't listening and now they're lost.  Even when I tell them that my street name exists for several streets in the Houston area, and that I know their TomTom can't be trusted, they still blithely follow it.This wouldn't surprise me so much accept some of these folks are supposed to be computer geeks, who have no illusions about the magical powers of computers and software.  Are people lazy or what?
;-/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633489</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>Valdrax</author>
	<datestamp>1247132220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat. When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like. These days kids just stare at the screen in the headrest in front of them from the time they pull away until they get where they're going. I'll bet half of them couldn't find their way home if you dropped them off two blocks away.</p></div><p>You know, as much as I love a good ragging on TV, and as much as I hate the use of video valium for babysitting, this isn't really a new problem at all.  I had to learn a lot of my community from scratch when I learned to drive because I used to <em>read</em> in the car.</p><p>But I wouldn't call any parent that got their kids to read a lot a bad one, would you?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat .
When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like .
These days kids just stare at the screen in the headrest in front of them from the time they pull away until they get where they 're going .
I 'll bet half of them could n't find their way home if you dropped them off two blocks away.You know , as much as I love a good ragging on TV , and as much as I hate the use of video valium for babysitting , this is n't really a new problem at all .
I had to learn a lot of my community from scratch when I learned to drive because I used to read in the car.But I would n't call any parent that got their kids to read a lot a bad one , would you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's destroying local knowledge is the video baby-sitters in the back-seat.
When I was a kid we knew what our neighborhood LOOKED like.
These days kids just stare at the screen in the headrest in front of them from the time they pull away until they get where they're going.
I'll bet half of them couldn't find their way home if you dropped them off two blocks away.You know, as much as I love a good ragging on TV, and as much as I hate the use of video valium for babysitting, this isn't really a new problem at all.
I had to learn a lot of my community from scratch when I learned to drive because I used to read in the car.But I wouldn't call any parent that got their kids to read a lot a bad one, would you?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638355</id>
	<title>Re:Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>SoupGuru</author>
	<datestamp>1247161560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Until your satnav gets real-time updates and shapes traffic.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and then someone figures out how to exploit that feature....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Until your satnav gets real-time updates and shapes traffic .
... and then someone figures out how to exploit that feature... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Until your satnav gets real-time updates and shapes traffic.
... and then someone figures out how to exploit that feature....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634985</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633475</id>
	<title>Huh? Much ado about nothing.</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1247131980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This smacks of some journalist on a slow day trying to think up something to write about. I am not interested.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This smacks of some journalist on a slow day trying to think up something to write about .
I am not interested .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This smacks of some journalist on a slow day trying to think up something to write about.
I am not interested.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634969</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247147100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, it is possible to pull to the side of the road to use a smart phone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , it is possible to pull to the side of the road to use a smart phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, it is possible to pull to the side of the road to use a smart phone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633271</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635313</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>Chrisq</author>
	<datestamp>1247149020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have a friend who navigates everywhere by pubs. I thought it was just in the city we live in but he gave me directions to another city once that was just the same."Come off the motorway junction and take the second exit at the roundabout. Two roads after the "cock and bottle" turn left. Carry on for a couple of miles - you'll pass "the red Lion" and "the King's Arms", then its on the right a hundred yards past the "Pig and Whistle".<br> <br>
The rate pubs are closing he will soon not be able to get anywhere</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a friend who navigates everywhere by pubs .
I thought it was just in the city we live in but he gave me directions to another city once that was just the same .
" Come off the motorway junction and take the second exit at the roundabout .
Two roads after the " cock and bottle " turn left .
Carry on for a couple of miles - you 'll pass " the red Lion " and " the King 's Arms " , then its on the right a hundred yards past the " Pig and Whistle " .
The rate pubs are closing he will soon not be able to get anywhere</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a friend who navigates everywhere by pubs.
I thought it was just in the city we live in but he gave me directions to another city once that was just the same.
"Come off the motorway junction and take the second exit at the roundabout.
Two roads after the "cock and bottle" turn left.
Carry on for a couple of miles - you'll pass "the red Lion" and "the King's Arms", then its on the right a hundred yards past the "Pig and Whistle".
The rate pubs are closing he will soon not be able to get anywhere</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634317</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>TaoPhoenix</author>
	<datestamp>1247140380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Options/shortest distance".</p><p>That's always the tradeoff with Fastest Time when the freeway version is 2 miles longer and 10 minutes faster.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Options/shortest distance " .That 's always the tradeoff with Fastest Time when the freeway version is 2 miles longer and 10 minutes faster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Options/shortest distance".That's always the tradeoff with Fastest Time when the freeway version is 2 miles longer and 10 minutes faster.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633743</id>
	<title>OpenStreetMap the future for local knowledge</title>
	<author>chrb</author>
	<datestamp>1247134800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most of the digital mapping data misses out a lot of local features. Even the Tele Atlas data that Google maps uses is buggy and in Western Europe misses minor roads, and I've even seen it miss junctions between major roads. In Eastern Europe it often misses entire roads and cities (e.g. compare the capital of Albania on <a href="http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&amp;source=s\_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=tirana&amp;sll=42.647092,18.106842&amp;sspn=0.743441,1.234589&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=41.331709,19.817276&amp;spn=0.094871,0.154324&amp;z=13" title="google.co.uk">Google Maps</a> [google.co.uk] and <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.3274&amp;lon=19.8186&amp;zoom=13&amp;layers=B000FTF" title="openstreetmap.org">OpenStreetMap</a> [openstreetmap.org] .</p><p>Even in Western Europe, the digital map makers miss stuff like cycle and walking trails. If you look at a detailed map like the British Ordnance Survey, which has been built upon local knowledge for hundreds of years, you'll see an amazing amount of information that is missed in the digital maps. I was surprised the first time I looked up my local area and saw that even the tiniest woods were named, and every hill was named and had elevation data. This is local data that almost no-one cares about anymore, but it still seems a shame to lose the history. I think the future is this kind of local data encoded in a modern digital open-standard format, and the only project I see doing this kind of work is OpenStreetMap.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of the digital mapping data misses out a lot of local features .
Even the Tele Atlas data that Google maps uses is buggy and in Western Europe misses minor roads , and I 've even seen it miss junctions between major roads .
In Eastern Europe it often misses entire roads and cities ( e.g .
compare the capital of Albania on Google Maps [ google.co.uk ] and OpenStreetMap [ openstreetmap.org ] .Even in Western Europe , the digital map makers miss stuff like cycle and walking trails .
If you look at a detailed map like the British Ordnance Survey , which has been built upon local knowledge for hundreds of years , you 'll see an amazing amount of information that is missed in the digital maps .
I was surprised the first time I looked up my local area and saw that even the tiniest woods were named , and every hill was named and had elevation data .
This is local data that almost no-one cares about anymore , but it still seems a shame to lose the history .
I think the future is this kind of local data encoded in a modern digital open-standard format , and the only project I see doing this kind of work is OpenStreetMap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of the digital mapping data misses out a lot of local features.
Even the Tele Atlas data that Google maps uses is buggy and in Western Europe misses minor roads, and I've even seen it miss junctions between major roads.
In Eastern Europe it often misses entire roads and cities (e.g.
compare the capital of Albania on Google Maps [google.co.uk] and OpenStreetMap [openstreetmap.org] .Even in Western Europe, the digital map makers miss stuff like cycle and walking trails.
If you look at a detailed map like the British Ordnance Survey, which has been built upon local knowledge for hundreds of years, you'll see an amazing amount of information that is missed in the digital maps.
I was surprised the first time I looked up my local area and saw that even the tiniest woods were named, and every hill was named and had elevation data.
This is local data that almost no-one cares about anymore, but it still seems a shame to lose the history.
I think the future is this kind of local data encoded in a modern digital open-standard format, and the only project I see doing this kind of work is OpenStreetMap.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633419</id>
	<title>Just one more whiny kumbaya nonsense</title>
	<author>hwyhobo</author>
	<datestamp>1247131380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cry me a river. This is a typical whiny kumbaya nonsense about how we are losing important skills because of encroaching technology, a theory that immediately falls apart if you look at it from up close. Anyone who can read Google maps can read paper maps just fine for normal use. In fact, Google maps, GPS, and Google Earth probably immensely improved average map reading skills, not just street but topo.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cry me a river .
This is a typical whiny kumbaya nonsense about how we are losing important skills because of encroaching technology , a theory that immediately falls apart if you look at it from up close .
Anyone who can read Google maps can read paper maps just fine for normal use .
In fact , Google maps , GPS , and Google Earth probably immensely improved average map reading skills , not just street but topo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cry me a river.
This is a typical whiny kumbaya nonsense about how we are losing important skills because of encroaching technology, a theory that immediately falls apart if you look at it from up close.
Anyone who can read Google maps can read paper maps just fine for normal use.
In fact, Google maps, GPS, and Google Earth probably immensely improved average map reading skills, not just street but topo.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636329</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247153400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>perhaps I could suggest the ancient and lost art of 'walking' as a means of learning the local landscape...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>perhaps I could suggest the ancient and lost art of 'walking ' as a means of learning the local landscape.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>perhaps I could suggest the ancient and lost art of 'walking' as a means of learning the local landscape...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633489</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633499</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, which planet Earth? -sextants still in u</title>
	<author>nmg196</author>
	<datestamp>1247132400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; One good solar flare and no GPS and VHF for a while. Did you realise that?</p><p>That's only in your head. You're talking absolute rubbish. Perhaps one particular time one GPS didn't work for a few minutes, but NEVER EVER has the whole GPS network been unusable for "several days" - that's just something you made up.  The GPS signals are very strong and very easy to read. That's why a GPS antenna is only a couple of cubic centimeters but a TV signal requires upwards of a 40cm parabolic dish. What you're talking about has never happened and most likely never will.</p><p>Do you know how infrequent major solar storms are? There hasn't been a big one capabable of disrupting any major in over 100 years. Even if it happened right now, aircraft can navigate using internal navigation and beacons and it would be the massive problem that the ignorant press sometimes portrey to be.</p><p>&gt; I've known too many people drive around London for ages because they were in an urban canyon</p><p>Perhaps 5-10 years ago. No modern GPS has any significant problems getting a lock in London these days. It doesn't even have skyscrapers. New York City perhaps, but not London.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; One good solar flare and no GPS and VHF for a while .
Did you realise that ? That 's only in your head .
You 're talking absolute rubbish .
Perhaps one particular time one GPS did n't work for a few minutes , but NEVER EVER has the whole GPS network been unusable for " several days " - that 's just something you made up .
The GPS signals are very strong and very easy to read .
That 's why a GPS antenna is only a couple of cubic centimeters but a TV signal requires upwards of a 40cm parabolic dish .
What you 're talking about has never happened and most likely never will.Do you know how infrequent major solar storms are ?
There has n't been a big one capabable of disrupting any major in over 100 years .
Even if it happened right now , aircraft can navigate using internal navigation and beacons and it would be the massive problem that the ignorant press sometimes portrey to be. &gt; I 've known too many people drive around London for ages because they were in an urban canyonPerhaps 5-10 years ago .
No modern GPS has any significant problems getting a lock in London these days .
It does n't even have skyscrapers .
New York City perhaps , but not London .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; One good solar flare and no GPS and VHF for a while.
Did you realise that?That's only in your head.
You're talking absolute rubbish.
Perhaps one particular time one GPS didn't work for a few minutes, but NEVER EVER has the whole GPS network been unusable for "several days" - that's just something you made up.
The GPS signals are very strong and very easy to read.
That's why a GPS antenna is only a couple of cubic centimeters but a TV signal requires upwards of a 40cm parabolic dish.
What you're talking about has never happened and most likely never will.Do you know how infrequent major solar storms are?
There hasn't been a big one capabable of disrupting any major in over 100 years.
Even if it happened right now, aircraft can navigate using internal navigation and beacons and it would be the massive problem that the ignorant press sometimes portrey to be.&gt; I've known too many people drive around London for ages because they were in an urban canyonPerhaps 5-10 years ago.
No modern GPS has any significant problems getting a lock in London these days.
It doesn't even have skyscrapers.
New York City perhaps, but not London.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633207</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634889</id>
	<title>I wax nostalgic about smallpox...</title>
	<author>Vellmont</author>
	<datestamp>1247146440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ahh the salad days when a man feared for his life that a plague might ravage through the countryside and kill all him and his neighbors.  It really gave a man a sense of being alive and to value his life when he surived those great smallpox epidemics of yore.  These days, with the fancy-dancy "vaccine" kids will never know this great wonder of nature.</p><p>Why is it whenever some new form of technology that relieves some burden comes along there's always these dumb articles about how it's going to ruin us, and how some aspect of -old thing- was really just great?  Any positive aspects of -new thing- are ignored, any negative aspect is amplified and distorted, and anything else that mitigates the negative aspect are also ignored.</p><p>Getting back to reality, there's always going to be people who don't have sat-navigation, don't use it, etc.  This isn't like a telephone or the internet where you're eventually forced into the technology because everyone else has it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ahh the salad days when a man feared for his life that a plague might ravage through the countryside and kill all him and his neighbors .
It really gave a man a sense of being alive and to value his life when he surived those great smallpox epidemics of yore .
These days , with the fancy-dancy " vaccine " kids will never know this great wonder of nature.Why is it whenever some new form of technology that relieves some burden comes along there 's always these dumb articles about how it 's going to ruin us , and how some aspect of -old thing- was really just great ?
Any positive aspects of -new thing- are ignored , any negative aspect is amplified and distorted , and anything else that mitigates the negative aspect are also ignored.Getting back to reality , there 's always going to be people who do n't have sat-navigation , do n't use it , etc .
This is n't like a telephone or the internet where you 're eventually forced into the technology because everyone else has it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ahh the salad days when a man feared for his life that a plague might ravage through the countryside and kill all him and his neighbors.
It really gave a man a sense of being alive and to value his life when he surived those great smallpox epidemics of yore.
These days, with the fancy-dancy "vaccine" kids will never know this great wonder of nature.Why is it whenever some new form of technology that relieves some burden comes along there's always these dumb articles about how it's going to ruin us, and how some aspect of -old thing- was really just great?
Any positive aspects of -new thing- are ignored, any negative aspect is amplified and distorted, and anything else that mitigates the negative aspect are also ignored.Getting back to reality, there's always going to be people who don't have sat-navigation, don't use it, etc.
This isn't like a telephone or the internet where you're eventually forced into the technology because everyone else has it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634681</id>
	<title>Re:We use them because they're better</title>
	<author>MtViewGuy</author>
	<datestamp>1247144820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Heck, why do we even need paper maps for many cases because with the Mapquest online service that uses Navteq maps that are easily updated even daily, I can find almost any place in the continental USA with amazing accuracy--and find new roads too!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Heck , why do we even need paper maps for many cases because with the Mapquest online service that uses Navteq maps that are easily updated even daily , I can find almost any place in the continental USA with amazing accuracy--and find new roads too !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heck, why do we even need paper maps for many cases because with the Mapquest online service that uses Navteq maps that are easily updated even daily, I can find almost any place in the continental USA with amazing accuracy--and find new roads too!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636315</id>
	<title>I'm a calligrapher,</title>
	<author>jockeys</author>
	<datestamp>1247153400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>you insensitive clod!<br> <br>

but cliches aside, new technology always pushes old stuff aside.  There will always be a contingent of fogeys young and old who maintain or revive the old arts.  For instance, I am active in both calligraphy and fountain pen clubs, and a straight razor shaving club.</htmltext>
<tokenext>you insensitive clod !
but cliches aside , new technology always pushes old stuff aside .
There will always be a contingent of fogeys young and old who maintain or revive the old arts .
For instance , I am active in both calligraphy and fountain pen clubs , and a straight razor shaving club .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you insensitive clod!
but cliches aside, new technology always pushes old stuff aside.
There will always be a contingent of fogeys young and old who maintain or revive the old arts.
For instance, I am active in both calligraphy and fountain pen clubs, and a straight razor shaving club.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633575</id>
	<title>Route finding sucks...</title>
	<author>lewko</author>
	<datestamp>1247133240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my experience, GPS navigation systems are great for telling you where you <i>are</i>, but lousy at getting you from point A to point B in an efficient manner.</p><p>I find the combination of a traditional map and a GPS to be a great improvement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my experience , GPS navigation systems are great for telling you where you are , but lousy at getting you from point A to point B in an efficient manner.I find the combination of a traditional map and a GPS to be a great improvement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my experience, GPS navigation systems are great for telling you where you are, but lousy at getting you from point A to point B in an efficient manner.I find the combination of a traditional map and a GPS to be a great improvement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637305</id>
	<title>Re:Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>Dr\_Barnowl</author>
	<datestamp>1247156820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's more likely to go the other way - the satnav gets a wireless data link and routes traffic according to congestion, just like the internet.</p><p>I like your idea though, seems like a good idea for a sci-fi movie.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's more likely to go the other way - the satnav gets a wireless data link and routes traffic according to congestion , just like the internet.I like your idea though , seems like a good idea for a sci-fi movie .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's more likely to go the other way - the satnav gets a wireless data link and routes traffic according to congestion, just like the internet.I like your idea though, seems like a good idea for a sci-fi movie.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634985</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635429</id>
	<title>Re:Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>wolrahnaes</author>
	<datestamp>1247149620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Sat-nav creators should hold some responsibility for their actions, or rather inactions in forseeing shit like this happen.</p></div><p>They did forsee it, that's why there are a number of trucker-focused nav products on the market.  Same maps, but the routing engine is tweaked to plan for an oversize vehicle and low bridges are flagged.  The problem is idiot truckers buying the cheapest consumer nav product they find, then trusting the directions blindly.  I've never driven OTR, but I occasionally pilot a RV and used to maneuver large trailers with farm tractors, if you know the vehicle you're driving and are paying attention to the road you won't get in to a bad spot.  Drivers in your area obviously don't fall in to one or both of those categories.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sat-nav creators should hold some responsibility for their actions , or rather inactions in forseeing shit like this happen.They did forsee it , that 's why there are a number of trucker-focused nav products on the market .
Same maps , but the routing engine is tweaked to plan for an oversize vehicle and low bridges are flagged .
The problem is idiot truckers buying the cheapest consumer nav product they find , then trusting the directions blindly .
I 've never driven OTR , but I occasionally pilot a RV and used to maneuver large trailers with farm tractors , if you know the vehicle you 're driving and are paying attention to the road you wo n't get in to a bad spot .
Drivers in your area obviously do n't fall in to one or both of those categories .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sat-nav creators should hold some responsibility for their actions, or rather inactions in forseeing shit like this happen.They did forsee it, that's why there are a number of trucker-focused nav products on the market.
Same maps, but the routing engine is tweaked to plan for an oversize vehicle and low bridges are flagged.
The problem is idiot truckers buying the cheapest consumer nav product they find, then trusting the directions blindly.
I've never driven OTR, but I occasionally pilot a RV and used to maneuver large trailers with farm tractors, if you know the vehicle you're driving and are paying attention to the road you won't get in to a bad spot.
Drivers in your area obviously don't fall in to one or both of those categories.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634159</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633599</id>
	<title>must of - please remember</title>
	<author>quadrox</author>
	<datestamp>1247133480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please remember that "must of" should be "must have". I know that they sound similar when using contractions (must've - which firefox won't even accept) but the first one is wrong while the second one is correct. The second one also makes a lot more sense.</p><p>This message is FYI only, not meant to be disrespectfull or anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please remember that " must of " should be " must have " .
I know that they sound similar when using contractions ( must 've - which firefox wo n't even accept ) but the first one is wrong while the second one is correct .
The second one also makes a lot more sense.This message is FYI only , not meant to be disrespectfull or anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please remember that "must of" should be "must have".
I know that they sound similar when using contractions (must've - which firefox won't even accept) but the first one is wrong while the second one is correct.
The second one also makes a lot more sense.This message is FYI only, not meant to be disrespectfull or anything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633297</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28649823</id>
	<title>Stupid Questions</title>
	<author>AP31R0N</author>
	<datestamp>1247240940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are lighters destroying the skill of starting fire with sticks?</p><p>Are street lights destroying low light vision?</p><p>Did video kill the radio star?</p><p>Are pen/print and paper destroying rote memorization?</p><p>Technology is pretty much all about destroying the old way of doing things.  Instead of going out in the woods to chop down trees to cook, i turn on my electric oven.  i don't need to know how to calculate square roots if i have a calculator.  As navigation tools, maps suck.  My Garmin tells me where to turn so i don't have to squint at a map.</p><p>Technology off loads work we don't want to do, or can't do.  Like move 60 MPH.  i can't do that.  So i bought a car.  i don't want to carry bags of groceries, so my car has a trunk.  My life is fairly dull so i watch movies of people with lives more troublesome than mine.  My walls are blank and boring, so i put paintings and posters on them.  i find gathering cotton and weaving boring and time consuming so i went to Target and bought a t-shirt.</p><p>This is what we do.  We try to make our lives easier.  Keywork: try.  Can we stop asking obvious and meaningless question yet?  Is there a technology for 'Getting Over It Already'?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are lighters destroying the skill of starting fire with sticks ? Are street lights destroying low light vision ? Did video kill the radio star ? Are pen/print and paper destroying rote memorization ? Technology is pretty much all about destroying the old way of doing things .
Instead of going out in the woods to chop down trees to cook , i turn on my electric oven .
i do n't need to know how to calculate square roots if i have a calculator .
As navigation tools , maps suck .
My Garmin tells me where to turn so i do n't have to squint at a map.Technology off loads work we do n't want to do , or ca n't do .
Like move 60 MPH .
i ca n't do that .
So i bought a car .
i do n't want to carry bags of groceries , so my car has a trunk .
My life is fairly dull so i watch movies of people with lives more troublesome than mine .
My walls are blank and boring , so i put paintings and posters on them .
i find gathering cotton and weaving boring and time consuming so i went to Target and bought a t-shirt.This is what we do .
We try to make our lives easier .
Keywork : try .
Can we stop asking obvious and meaningless question yet ?
Is there a technology for 'Getting Over It Already ' ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are lighters destroying the skill of starting fire with sticks?Are street lights destroying low light vision?Did video kill the radio star?Are pen/print and paper destroying rote memorization?Technology is pretty much all about destroying the old way of doing things.
Instead of going out in the woods to chop down trees to cook, i turn on my electric oven.
i don't need to know how to calculate square roots if i have a calculator.
As navigation tools, maps suck.
My Garmin tells me where to turn so i don't have to squint at a map.Technology off loads work we don't want to do, or can't do.
Like move 60 MPH.
i can't do that.
So i bought a car.
i don't want to carry bags of groceries, so my car has a trunk.
My life is fairly dull so i watch movies of people with lives more troublesome than mine.
My walls are blank and boring, so i put paintings and posters on them.
i find gathering cotton and weaving boring and time consuming so i went to Target and bought a t-shirt.This is what we do.
We try to make our lives easier.
Keywork: try.
Can we stop asking obvious and meaningless question yet?
Is there a technology for 'Getting Over It Already'?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636487</id>
	<title>So am I the only one...</title>
	<author>Bunny Caerbannog</author>
	<datestamp>1247153820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Who can find her way back to a place once I've driven there once? I admit it is a bit harder when the stores change from year to year...

And this was even before I started drawing maps as part of my job.
I still love giving directions along the lines of "Turn right where the X used to be", drives newcommers nuts.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who can find her way back to a place once I 've driven there once ?
I admit it is a bit harder when the stores change from year to year.. . And this was even before I started drawing maps as part of my job .
I still love giving directions along the lines of " Turn right where the X used to be " , drives newcommers nuts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who can find her way back to a place once I've driven there once?
I admit it is a bit harder when the stores change from year to year...

And this was even before I started drawing maps as part of my job.
I still love giving directions along the lines of "Turn right where the X used to be", drives newcommers nuts.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635637</id>
	<title>Definately</title>
	<author>belligerent0001</author>
	<datestamp>1247150580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just use phone numbers as an example. When I was a kid (ok I am showing my age now) we had to actually memorize phone numbers. I think that I have like 3 numbers that I can call off the top of my head, otherwise I need my cell phone. If my cell phone dies I am f-ed ( I have them archived somewhere though). The same will happen with the wider use of GPS'. The more we lock in way points and destinations we will lose the need to recall them on our own....at least until Dec. 2012 when the satellites fall from the sky but the world will erupt into a fire ball then anyway so it won't matter. (It is a joke people..haha laugh)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just use phone numbers as an example .
When I was a kid ( ok I am showing my age now ) we had to actually memorize phone numbers .
I think that I have like 3 numbers that I can call off the top of my head , otherwise I need my cell phone .
If my cell phone dies I am f-ed ( I have them archived somewhere though ) .
The same will happen with the wider use of GPS' .
The more we lock in way points and destinations we will lose the need to recall them on our own....at least until Dec. 2012 when the satellites fall from the sky but the world will erupt into a fire ball then anyway so it wo n't matter .
( It is a joke people..haha laugh )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just use phone numbers as an example.
When I was a kid (ok I am showing my age now) we had to actually memorize phone numbers.
I think that I have like 3 numbers that I can call off the top of my head, otherwise I need my cell phone.
If my cell phone dies I am f-ed ( I have them archived somewhere though).
The same will happen with the wider use of GPS'.
The more we lock in way points and destinations we will lose the need to recall them on our own....at least until Dec. 2012 when the satellites fall from the sky but the world will erupt into a fire ball then anyway so it won't matter.
(It is a joke people..haha laugh)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638121</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>iamhigh</author>
	<datestamp>1247160660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>When you are travelling in a foreign city, it is real nice to know you are 30m from your turn.  Even if I am really 60m, I bet I can figure it out since mine gives me the street name anyways.  Really you are blowing this out of proportion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When you are travelling in a foreign city , it is real nice to know you are 30m from your turn .
Even if I am really 60m , I bet I can figure it out since mine gives me the street name anyways .
Really you are blowing this out of proportion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you are travelling in a foreign city, it is real nice to know you are 30m from your turn.
Even if I am really 60m, I bet I can figure it out since mine gives me the street name anyways.
Really you are blowing this out of proportion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638097</id>
	<title>Re:Agree to Disagree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247160540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Erm...don't you mean Samuel L. Jackson?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Erm...do n't you mean Samuel L. Jackson ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Erm...don't you mean Samuel L. Jackson?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633097</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633255</id>
	<title>trust issues</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247172240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course we don't entirely trust computerized navigation.  For one thing, there are dreary little one-horse towns in the UK getting some entertainment as people drive trucks where the road is too narrow or compact cars under super-low bridges.</p><p>But, perhaps more importantly in the states, are the splash screens that come up.  First the FBI warning about copying movies, then an admonishment not to use it while moving (note: not just driving.  the wording states "moving"), and a click-through eula with fine print that says that it's for entertainment purposes only, not responsible for blah blah blah... up-to-date maps will cost you three times as much per annum as anti-virus.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course we do n't entirely trust computerized navigation .
For one thing , there are dreary little one-horse towns in the UK getting some entertainment as people drive trucks where the road is too narrow or compact cars under super-low bridges.But , perhaps more importantly in the states , are the splash screens that come up .
First the FBI warning about copying movies , then an admonishment not to use it while moving ( note : not just driving .
the wording states " moving " ) , and a click-through eula with fine print that says that it 's for entertainment purposes only , not responsible for blah blah blah... up-to-date maps will cost you three times as much per annum as anti-virus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course we don't entirely trust computerized navigation.
For one thing, there are dreary little one-horse towns in the UK getting some entertainment as people drive trucks where the road is too narrow or compact cars under super-low bridges.But, perhaps more importantly in the states, are the splash screens that come up.
First the FBI warning about copying movies, then an admonishment not to use it while moving (note: not just driving.
the wording states "moving"), and a click-through eula with fine print that says that it's for entertainment purposes only, not responsible for blah blah blah... up-to-date maps will cost you three times as much per annum as anti-virus.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635571</id>
	<title>Invalid</title>
	<author>smoker2</author>
	<datestamp>1247150340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>A sat nav is a crutch for people who can't or won't navigate. GPS on the other hand is quite useful. I use google maps on my phone, and it comes in very handy for the times when I get close to my destination, but can't quite find it. GPS shows you where you are in relation to your destination, not where to go. I also have TomTom on the phone, and it is crap for what I need. I usually need to use google maps as well as TomTom to get an accurate fix on the destination. So why use TomTom at all ?<br> <br>
I've driven across the states 3 times east to west and back, and most of the way around Australia, and the worst that ever happened was I had to back track 5 miles. I never had a sat nav or gps then.
I have a box full of maps for each county in the UK. The best method is to plan the journey ahead of actually leaving. Work out the main route, motorway or whatever, then find where that road meets the large scale map of the town, and then locate your destination. All you have to do when you reach the town is have a quick look at the map to find the turning before yours and you are all set. You can easily do that while sat at the lights.
<br> <br>
I drive a truck, so sat nav is right out anyway. Even the ones that claim to know about low bridges and restrictions don't get it right. A lot of firms have banned their use completely, due to idiots doing what they're told instead of making an informed choice. A sat nav doesn't differentiate between a normal size road and a tiny country lane. A map, and a visual inspection, does.<br> <br>
About the only saving grace for a sat nav is the ETA function. That's useful on occasions, but for navigation, forget it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A sat nav is a crutch for people who ca n't or wo n't navigate .
GPS on the other hand is quite useful .
I use google maps on my phone , and it comes in very handy for the times when I get close to my destination , but ca n't quite find it .
GPS shows you where you are in relation to your destination , not where to go .
I also have TomTom on the phone , and it is crap for what I need .
I usually need to use google maps as well as TomTom to get an accurate fix on the destination .
So why use TomTom at all ?
I 've driven across the states 3 times east to west and back , and most of the way around Australia , and the worst that ever happened was I had to back track 5 miles .
I never had a sat nav or gps then .
I have a box full of maps for each county in the UK .
The best method is to plan the journey ahead of actually leaving .
Work out the main route , motorway or whatever , then find where that road meets the large scale map of the town , and then locate your destination .
All you have to do when you reach the town is have a quick look at the map to find the turning before yours and you are all set .
You can easily do that while sat at the lights .
I drive a truck , so sat nav is right out anyway .
Even the ones that claim to know about low bridges and restrictions do n't get it right .
A lot of firms have banned their use completely , due to idiots doing what they 're told instead of making an informed choice .
A sat nav does n't differentiate between a normal size road and a tiny country lane .
A map , and a visual inspection , does .
About the only saving grace for a sat nav is the ETA function .
That 's useful on occasions , but for navigation , forget it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A sat nav is a crutch for people who can't or won't navigate.
GPS on the other hand is quite useful.
I use google maps on my phone, and it comes in very handy for the times when I get close to my destination, but can't quite find it.
GPS shows you where you are in relation to your destination, not where to go.
I also have TomTom on the phone, and it is crap for what I need.
I usually need to use google maps as well as TomTom to get an accurate fix on the destination.
So why use TomTom at all ?
I've driven across the states 3 times east to west and back, and most of the way around Australia, and the worst that ever happened was I had to back track 5 miles.
I never had a sat nav or gps then.
I have a box full of maps for each county in the UK.
The best method is to plan the journey ahead of actually leaving.
Work out the main route, motorway or whatever, then find where that road meets the large scale map of the town, and then locate your destination.
All you have to do when you reach the town is have a quick look at the map to find the turning before yours and you are all set.
You can easily do that while sat at the lights.
I drive a truck, so sat nav is right out anyway.
Even the ones that claim to know about low bridges and restrictions don't get it right.
A lot of firms have banned their use completely, due to idiots doing what they're told instead of making an informed choice.
A sat nav doesn't differentiate between a normal size road and a tiny country lane.
A map, and a visual inspection, does.
About the only saving grace for a sat nav is the ETA function.
That's useful on occasions, but for navigation, forget it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638701</id>
	<title>Re:Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>Shawndeisi</author>
	<datestamp>1247163060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think that's a pretty narrow vision of how navigational aids will work...<br>
<br>
I'd wager that eventually navigational aids will work like routing protocols do, favoring links with more bandwidth updated in real-time with actual road conditions.  Imagine being able to seamlessly route around wrecks in real-time with the route that the city itself wanted to fail over to.<br>
<br>
Currently, we have self-routing going on, to the detriment of overall traffic patterns.  If there was a centralized decision, as long as it was honest traffic patterns would improve as people started using it.  Cities could direct traffic to larger links and throughput concentrated into those, instead of side links that intersect with them becoming clogged as well.  When people route themselves, they make really stupid/belligerent decisions sometime, causing havoc on the road in general.  You'll never get rid of selfishness, but you could make the official paths far more rewarding than non-official paths.  Currently this is hard to do because there's no way to broadcast or indicate the "correct" way to route yourself.<br>
<br>
I personally look forward to the day that there is real-time routing information.  Currently I do flat-out refuse to use GPS as I'd rather keep my personal navigational intuition honed, but I'd trade that in a heartbeat for real-time conditions and an actual calculation of the fastest route.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that 's a pretty narrow vision of how navigational aids will work.. . I 'd wager that eventually navigational aids will work like routing protocols do , favoring links with more bandwidth updated in real-time with actual road conditions .
Imagine being able to seamlessly route around wrecks in real-time with the route that the city itself wanted to fail over to .
Currently , we have self-routing going on , to the detriment of overall traffic patterns .
If there was a centralized decision , as long as it was honest traffic patterns would improve as people started using it .
Cities could direct traffic to larger links and throughput concentrated into those , instead of side links that intersect with them becoming clogged as well .
When people route themselves , they make really stupid/belligerent decisions sometime , causing havoc on the road in general .
You 'll never get rid of selfishness , but you could make the official paths far more rewarding than non-official paths .
Currently this is hard to do because there 's no way to broadcast or indicate the " correct " way to route yourself .
I personally look forward to the day that there is real-time routing information .
Currently I do flat-out refuse to use GPS as I 'd rather keep my personal navigational intuition honed , but I 'd trade that in a heartbeat for real-time conditions and an actual calculation of the fastest route .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that's a pretty narrow vision of how navigational aids will work...

I'd wager that eventually navigational aids will work like routing protocols do, favoring links with more bandwidth updated in real-time with actual road conditions.
Imagine being able to seamlessly route around wrecks in real-time with the route that the city itself wanted to fail over to.
Currently, we have self-routing going on, to the detriment of overall traffic patterns.
If there was a centralized decision, as long as it was honest traffic patterns would improve as people started using it.
Cities could direct traffic to larger links and throughput concentrated into those, instead of side links that intersect with them becoming clogged as well.
When people route themselves, they make really stupid/belligerent decisions sometime, causing havoc on the road in general.
You'll never get rid of selfishness, but you could make the official paths far more rewarding than non-official paths.
Currently this is hard to do because there's no way to broadcast or indicate the "correct" way to route yourself.
I personally look forward to the day that there is real-time routing information.
Currently I do flat-out refuse to use GPS as I'd rather keep my personal navigational intuition honed, but I'd trade that in a heartbeat for real-time conditions and an actual calculation of the fastest route.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634985</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636643</id>
	<title>Actually, it helps people who can't read maps.</title>
	<author>Kartoffel</author>
	<datestamp>1247154360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GPS doesn't destroy local knowledge.  If anything, it may destroy people's ability to navigate with a map and compass.  Talking turn-by-turn GPS is dumbed down to the point that (assuming it works right) you'll arrive at your destination without ever having to read a map.  However I don't think it's really an issue.  So many people ALREADY don't have a clue with a map and compass that I doubt GPS will make matters worse.  It's like trying to argue that audiobooks encourage illiteracy--might be a tiny amount of truth to it but really it's not an issue.</p><p>Bottom line: learn to read a damn map.  Learn to dead reckon without landmarks.  You will become a better person, and your instructions will be far FAR less annoying to your map-literate friends.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GPS does n't destroy local knowledge .
If anything , it may destroy people 's ability to navigate with a map and compass .
Talking turn-by-turn GPS is dumbed down to the point that ( assuming it works right ) you 'll arrive at your destination without ever having to read a map .
However I do n't think it 's really an issue .
So many people ALREADY do n't have a clue with a map and compass that I doubt GPS will make matters worse .
It 's like trying to argue that audiobooks encourage illiteracy--might be a tiny amount of truth to it but really it 's not an issue.Bottom line : learn to read a damn map .
Learn to dead reckon without landmarks .
You will become a better person , and your instructions will be far FAR less annoying to your map-literate friends .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GPS doesn't destroy local knowledge.
If anything, it may destroy people's ability to navigate with a map and compass.
Talking turn-by-turn GPS is dumbed down to the point that (assuming it works right) you'll arrive at your destination without ever having to read a map.
However I don't think it's really an issue.
So many people ALREADY don't have a clue with a map and compass that I doubt GPS will make matters worse.
It's like trying to argue that audiobooks encourage illiteracy--might be a tiny amount of truth to it but really it's not an issue.Bottom line: learn to read a damn map.
Learn to dead reckon without landmarks.
You will become a better person, and your instructions will be far FAR less annoying to your map-literate friends.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633341</id>
	<title>Read this just a day ago or so...</title>
	<author>yerktoader</author>
	<datestamp>1247130300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And there was more history than an argument...</htmltext>
<tokenext>And there was more history than an argument.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And there was more history than an argument...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635279</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247148840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you kidding? We used to punish our kid by taking his books away. When his teachers heard that, they were horrified, until they realized that otherwise, he had his face in a book almost all the time he was awake, from when he was 5 years old. (He used to read to his pre-K class!)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you kidding ?
We used to punish our kid by taking his books away .
When his teachers heard that , they were horrified , until they realized that otherwise , he had his face in a book almost all the time he was awake , from when he was 5 years old .
( He used to read to his pre-K class !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you kidding?
We used to punish our kid by taking his books away.
When his teachers heard that, they were horrified, until they realized that otherwise, he had his face in a book almost all the time he was awake, from when he was 5 years old.
(He used to read to his pre-K class!
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633489</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638475</id>
	<title>so true</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247162040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This article is so true. Relatedly, I don't remember how to churn butter anymore, either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This article is so true .
Relatedly , I do n't remember how to churn butter anymore , either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This article is so true.
Relatedly, I don't remember how to churn butter anymore, either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634159</id>
	<title>Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>hack  slash</author>
	<datestamp>1247138820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sat-nav keeps damaging/destroying our property boundary wall, fucking delivery lorry drivers will blindly punch in a destination which takes them right past our house, the lane is too narrow for a lot of lorries so when they go past they often scrape the drystone wall, sometimes hitting it so hard the whole thing shifts a bit.<br>
<br>
One time we came home from holiday ro find the wall had been knocked down by a 5 axle lorry that didn't even realise what they'd done.<br>
<br>
Much more steps should have been taken during the writing of sat-nav code so shit like this doesn't happen, Tom-Tom, Garmin etc. should have consulted gotten local knowledge so to avoid problems like this. I read of one village that has had some serious problems with lorry drivers treating it as a rat-run, <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/08/satnav\_menaces\_somerset\_village/" title="theregister.co.uk">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/08/satnav\_menaces\_somerset\_village/</a> [theregister.co.uk] <br>
<br>
Sat-nav creators should hold some responsibility for their actions, or rather inactions in forseeing shit like this happen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sat-nav keeps damaging/destroying our property boundary wall , fucking delivery lorry drivers will blindly punch in a destination which takes them right past our house , the lane is too narrow for a lot of lorries so when they go past they often scrape the drystone wall , sometimes hitting it so hard the whole thing shifts a bit .
One time we came home from holiday ro find the wall had been knocked down by a 5 axle lorry that did n't even realise what they 'd done .
Much more steps should have been taken during the writing of sat-nav code so shit like this does n't happen , Tom-Tom , Garmin etc .
should have consulted gotten local knowledge so to avoid problems like this .
I read of one village that has had some serious problems with lorry drivers treating it as a rat-run , http : //www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/08/satnav \ _menaces \ _somerset \ _village/ [ theregister.co.uk ] Sat-nav creators should hold some responsibility for their actions , or rather inactions in forseeing shit like this happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sat-nav keeps damaging/destroying our property boundary wall, fucking delivery lorry drivers will blindly punch in a destination which takes them right past our house, the lane is too narrow for a lot of lorries so when they go past they often scrape the drystone wall, sometimes hitting it so hard the whole thing shifts a bit.
One time we came home from holiday ro find the wall had been knocked down by a 5 axle lorry that didn't even realise what they'd done.
Much more steps should have been taken during the writing of sat-nav code so shit like this doesn't happen, Tom-Tom, Garmin etc.
should have consulted gotten local knowledge so to avoid problems like this.
I read of one village that has had some serious problems with lorry drivers treating it as a rat-run, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/08/satnav\_menaces\_somerset\_village/ [theregister.co.uk] 

Sat-nav creators should hold some responsibility for their actions, or rather inactions in forseeing shit like this happen.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638165</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>Reziac</author>
	<datestamp>1247160840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not only that, but it was often the kids' job to read the map and figure out where we were, or how to get to where we wanted to be. Back before the Interstate system, it wasn't quite so simple as "pick the obvious route".</p><p>I've noticed that nowadays most people can't make sense of a map unless they've actually been to the location. They can't *figure out* how to get somewhere just from the map itself. This is kindof like the "whole word recognition" reading system vs phonics -- one relies on rote knowledge, the other on your ability to figure stuff out.</p><p>Disclaimer: I am a map freak. I don't use a GPS. And I never get lost.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not only that , but it was often the kids ' job to read the map and figure out where we were , or how to get to where we wanted to be .
Back before the Interstate system , it was n't quite so simple as " pick the obvious route " .I 've noticed that nowadays most people ca n't make sense of a map unless they 've actually been to the location .
They ca n't * figure out * how to get somewhere just from the map itself .
This is kindof like the " whole word recognition " reading system vs phonics -- one relies on rote knowledge , the other on your ability to figure stuff out.Disclaimer : I am a map freak .
I do n't use a GPS .
And I never get lost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not only that, but it was often the kids' job to read the map and figure out where we were, or how to get to where we wanted to be.
Back before the Interstate system, it wasn't quite so simple as "pick the obvious route".I've noticed that nowadays most people can't make sense of a map unless they've actually been to the location.
They can't *figure out* how to get somewhere just from the map itself.
This is kindof like the "whole word recognition" reading system vs phonics -- one relies on rote knowledge, the other on your ability to figure stuff out.Disclaimer: I am a map freak.
I don't use a GPS.
And I never get lost.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28641197</id>
	<title>Re:We use them because they're better</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247172480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Satnav is faster, more reliable and easier to use than paper maps.</p></div><p>Faster except for that 2 minute cold-start or the laggy UI that is still prevalent in many GPS units.<br>Easier to use except for when you are hiking at night and don't want to destroy your night vision.<br>More reliable except for when the batteries fail or you end up in an urban canyon, or if the US military decides to degrade the signal, or when the satellites die or get knocked out by debris.</p><p>Actually let's talk about reliability more. Can you actually find one way in which a GPS is more reliable than a paper map? I'm struggling to. Perhaps if you had a waterproof GPS and went for a swim. But you can buy waterproof paper maps too. Perhaps if you needed to navigate in pitch black darkness, but I'm stretching there too - if it's pitch black then I'm just not moving. Anyway, if I've planned for it I've got a red headlamp to read the map by, if not then I have a cree-based AAA-cell flashlight on my keyring, and my watch is bright enough to read by anyway (blue led binary watch). My paper map doesn't stop working at 50000ft or 1500mph either (Admittedly, that's not really important to me). But, I ask you once again, exactly how is a satnav more reliable?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>It's also possible to update a Satnav with new data if roads change, or new ones are built. Most people's car-atlases are obsolete if more than a few years old - meaning we have to replace them regularly to keep up-to-date. While the cost is small, it adds up with a new atlas every couple of years.</p> </div><p>The cost of annual map updates from TomTom is significantly more than the cost of replacing the London A-Z twice a year. The only time TomTom wins is if I frequently travel to lots of areas covered by different atlases so that that I need to replace lots of them.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The biggest problem with using a map is knowing where you are starting from.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you are lost it's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you don't know where you are to start with</p></div><p>I usually know where I am at any given time. I usually start my journey's from a known location, eg home, the office, the local bar etc, so I'd actually have to get lost first. Then I'd retrace my steps until I knew where I was. It that failed I'd look for landmarks that are nearby to where I thought I was. If all else failed, I'd break out a compass and take bearings on the highest points I could see. People have managed to locate themselves for thousands of years before GPS existed, so you might be exaggerating a little bit when you say it's impossible.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Similarly, if you're alone in a car, probably the single most dangerous thing you can possibly do while driving is keep looking down to refer to a map on your lap, while trying not to shunt the vehicle in front if it slows down.</p> </div><p>But it's much easier to operate a GPS without stopping, so more people do so. How does that make us safer? Educating people not to read maps whilst moving is much the same as educating people not to program their GPS whilst moving. Part of the point of this article is that people used to know that to get from Boston to Trenton NJ that you'd take I90W to I84S to I684S, over the Tappen Zee to the Garden State Parkway... etc. Now people are programming their GPS instead, often whilst moving.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>So far as comparing map-reading with calligraphy or thatching - this is completely spurious: almost no-one in past eras could do either of these crafts...</p></div><p>I think the analogies with calligraphy and thatching are fine. There was life before laser printers and asphalt, and people did really need legible writing and roofs.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Satnav is faster , more reliable and easier to use than paper maps.Faster except for that 2 minute cold-start or the laggy UI that is still prevalent in many GPS units.Easier to use except for when you are hiking at night and do n't want to destroy your night vision.More reliable except for when the batteries fail or you end up in an urban canyon , or if the US military decides to degrade the signal , or when the satellites die or get knocked out by debris.Actually let 's talk about reliability more .
Can you actually find one way in which a GPS is more reliable than a paper map ?
I 'm struggling to .
Perhaps if you had a waterproof GPS and went for a swim .
But you can buy waterproof paper maps too .
Perhaps if you needed to navigate in pitch black darkness , but I 'm stretching there too - if it 's pitch black then I 'm just not moving .
Anyway , if I 've planned for it I 've got a red headlamp to read the map by , if not then I have a cree-based AAA-cell flashlight on my keyring , and my watch is bright enough to read by anyway ( blue led binary watch ) .
My paper map does n't stop working at 50000ft or 1500mph either ( Admittedly , that 's not really important to me ) .
But , I ask you once again , exactly how is a satnav more reliable ? It 's also possible to update a Satnav with new data if roads change , or new ones are built .
Most people 's car-atlases are obsolete if more than a few years old - meaning we have to replace them regularly to keep up-to-date .
While the cost is small , it adds up with a new atlas every couple of years .
The cost of annual map updates from TomTom is significantly more than the cost of replacing the London A-Z twice a year .
The only time TomTom wins is if I frequently travel to lots of areas covered by different atlases so that that I need to replace lots of them.The biggest problem with using a map is knowing where you are starting from .
... you are lost it 's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you do n't know where you are to start withI usually know where I am at any given time .
I usually start my journey 's from a known location , eg home , the office , the local bar etc , so I 'd actually have to get lost first .
Then I 'd retrace my steps until I knew where I was .
It that failed I 'd look for landmarks that are nearby to where I thought I was .
If all else failed , I 'd break out a compass and take bearings on the highest points I could see .
People have managed to locate themselves for thousands of years before GPS existed , so you might be exaggerating a little bit when you say it 's impossible.Similarly , if you 're alone in a car , probably the single most dangerous thing you can possibly do while driving is keep looking down to refer to a map on your lap , while trying not to shunt the vehicle in front if it slows down .
But it 's much easier to operate a GPS without stopping , so more people do so .
How does that make us safer ?
Educating people not to read maps whilst moving is much the same as educating people not to program their GPS whilst moving .
Part of the point of this article is that people used to know that to get from Boston to Trenton NJ that you 'd take I90W to I84S to I684S , over the Tappen Zee to the Garden State Parkway... etc. Now people are programming their GPS instead , often whilst moving.So far as comparing map-reading with calligraphy or thatching - this is completely spurious : almost no-one in past eras could do either of these crafts...I think the analogies with calligraphy and thatching are fine .
There was life before laser printers and asphalt , and people did really need legible writing and roofs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Satnav is faster, more reliable and easier to use than paper maps.Faster except for that 2 minute cold-start or the laggy UI that is still prevalent in many GPS units.Easier to use except for when you are hiking at night and don't want to destroy your night vision.More reliable except for when the batteries fail or you end up in an urban canyon, or if the US military decides to degrade the signal, or when the satellites die or get knocked out by debris.Actually let's talk about reliability more.
Can you actually find one way in which a GPS is more reliable than a paper map?
I'm struggling to.
Perhaps if you had a waterproof GPS and went for a swim.
But you can buy waterproof paper maps too.
Perhaps if you needed to navigate in pitch black darkness, but I'm stretching there too - if it's pitch black then I'm just not moving.
Anyway, if I've planned for it I've got a red headlamp to read the map by, if not then I have a cree-based AAA-cell flashlight on my keyring, and my watch is bright enough to read by anyway (blue led binary watch).
My paper map doesn't stop working at 50000ft or 1500mph either (Admittedly, that's not really important to me).
But, I ask you once again, exactly how is a satnav more reliable?It's also possible to update a Satnav with new data if roads change, or new ones are built.
Most people's car-atlases are obsolete if more than a few years old - meaning we have to replace them regularly to keep up-to-date.
While the cost is small, it adds up with a new atlas every couple of years.
The cost of annual map updates from TomTom is significantly more than the cost of replacing the London A-Z twice a year.
The only time TomTom wins is if I frequently travel to lots of areas covered by different atlases so that that I need to replace lots of them.The biggest problem with using a map is knowing where you are starting from.
... you are lost it's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you don't know where you are to start withI usually know where I am at any given time.
I usually start my journey's from a known location, eg home, the office, the local bar etc, so I'd actually have to get lost first.
Then I'd retrace my steps until I knew where I was.
It that failed I'd look for landmarks that are nearby to where I thought I was.
If all else failed, I'd break out a compass and take bearings on the highest points I could see.
People have managed to locate themselves for thousands of years before GPS existed, so you might be exaggerating a little bit when you say it's impossible.Similarly, if you're alone in a car, probably the single most dangerous thing you can possibly do while driving is keep looking down to refer to a map on your lap, while trying not to shunt the vehicle in front if it slows down.
But it's much easier to operate a GPS without stopping, so more people do so.
How does that make us safer?
Educating people not to read maps whilst moving is much the same as educating people not to program their GPS whilst moving.
Part of the point of this article is that people used to know that to get from Boston to Trenton NJ that you'd take I90W to I84S to I684S, over the Tappen Zee to the Garden State Parkway... etc. Now people are programming their GPS instead, often whilst moving.So far as comparing map-reading with calligraphy or thatching - this is completely spurious: almost no-one in past eras could do either of these crafts...I think the analogies with calligraphy and thatching are fine.
There was life before laser printers and asphalt, and people did really need legible writing and roofs.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634209</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>pbhj</author>
	<datestamp>1247139240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I keep a compass and a paper map in my car and have thusfar avoided buying a satnav for fear of blunting my orienteering skills gained through my time spent in Scouts. A valuable skill which I'm sure will keep me from hitting the wall when the revolution comes.</p></div><p>A compass? What do you need that for<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... I thought you said you were a Scout.</p><p>You'll be telling me next you need matches to light a fire!?!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I keep a compass and a paper map in my car and have thusfar avoided buying a satnav for fear of blunting my orienteering skills gained through my time spent in Scouts .
A valuable skill which I 'm sure will keep me from hitting the wall when the revolution comes.A compass ?
What do you need that for ... I thought you said you were a Scout.You 'll be telling me next you need matches to light a fire ! ?
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I keep a compass and a paper map in my car and have thusfar avoided buying a satnav for fear of blunting my orienteering skills gained through my time spent in Scouts.
A valuable skill which I'm sure will keep me from hitting the wall when the revolution comes.A compass?
What do you need that for ... I thought you said you were a Scout.You'll be telling me next you need matches to light a fire!?
!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634911</id>
	<title>Re:Soul-less</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247146500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Sure, and taking someones picture will steal their soul as well.</p></div></blockquote><p>

You might be surprised how common this belief is:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR69xRjSn5Q" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">The Caretaker</a> [youtube.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , and taking someones picture will steal their soul as well .
You might be surprised how common this belief is : The Caretaker [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, and taking someones picture will steal their soul as well.
You might be surprised how common this belief is:

The Caretaker [youtube.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633829</id>
	<title>by the way...how do you know the periodicity?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247135820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Out of curiosity, how do you know severe solar storms recur roughly every 500 years? You would need to show that there were reliable records going back a couple of thousand years. Since the Carrington Event was the first such storm where there was enough electrical equipment in the world to notice the effects, any previous records must be speculative.<p>I think the truth is that we don't know enough about the Sun to be sure of anything it might do, certainly not to be able to date future events with the predictability you suppose. Looking at your previous posts, you seem to be in some sort of IT support role. I have to say that I wouldn't put someone like you in charge of the disaster recovery program! Like the quants in the City - possibly, from your comments, where you work - you seem to underestimate the importance of the possible size of the downsides in the long tail. I, on the other hand, have actually worked in the EMC/lightning protection area, and all I can say is, I'm not as optimistic as you are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Out of curiosity , how do you know severe solar storms recur roughly every 500 years ?
You would need to show that there were reliable records going back a couple of thousand years .
Since the Carrington Event was the first such storm where there was enough electrical equipment in the world to notice the effects , any previous records must be speculative.I think the truth is that we do n't know enough about the Sun to be sure of anything it might do , certainly not to be able to date future events with the predictability you suppose .
Looking at your previous posts , you seem to be in some sort of IT support role .
I have to say that I would n't put someone like you in charge of the disaster recovery program !
Like the quants in the City - possibly , from your comments , where you work - you seem to underestimate the importance of the possible size of the downsides in the long tail .
I , on the other hand , have actually worked in the EMC/lightning protection area , and all I can say is , I 'm not as optimistic as you are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Out of curiosity, how do you know severe solar storms recur roughly every 500 years?
You would need to show that there were reliable records going back a couple of thousand years.
Since the Carrington Event was the first such storm where there was enough electrical equipment in the world to notice the effects, any previous records must be speculative.I think the truth is that we don't know enough about the Sun to be sure of anything it might do, certainly not to be able to date future events with the predictability you suppose.
Looking at your previous posts, you seem to be in some sort of IT support role.
I have to say that I wouldn't put someone like you in charge of the disaster recovery program!
Like the quants in the City - possibly, from your comments, where you work - you seem to underestimate the importance of the possible size of the downsides in the long tail.
I, on the other hand, have actually worked in the EMC/lightning protection area, and all I can say is, I'm not as optimistic as you are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633737</id>
	<title>Laws Of Technology.....</title>
	<author>IHC Navistar</author>
	<datestamp>1247134800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Laws of Technology:</p><p>1) The more technologically advanced and/or complex a system is, the easier it will be to defeat or break.</p><p>2) As information retained by technological systems increases, the less information is retained by humans, thus progressively minimizing the need for a human working knowledge.</p><p>3) "Advanced" doesn't necessarily mean advanced.</p><p>Who needs to:</p><p>1) Learn how to read a map if you can use your GPS?<br>2) Learn how to spell, if you have spell-check?<br>3) Learn proper grammar, if you have grammar-check?<br>4) Learn penmanship, if you type instead of write?<br>5) Learn Morse code, if your cell phone cannot get a signal?</p><p>Unfortunately, people have become so reliant on technology that they have made themselves completely vulnerable to the most simplest of problems, particularly #1 above, which could be the difference between life and death if the GPS unit is damaged or the batteries are dead. Number 4 is becoming an increasing problem, since pharmacists are increasingly misreading prescriptions because the handwriting of the doctor that wrote them is so bad that they dispense the wrong compound, with disasterous results.).</p><p>Consider learning Morse code: If you are in a situation where you need it, like boating or hiking, chances are VERY good that your cell phone won't get a signal, and a 50 cent mirror or $2.50 flashlight will get a distress message out better. Even with a radio, basic radio operation skills are far more helpful that being able to text, since cell reception is not as widespread, powerful, or reaching as a signal from a radio.</p><p>Skills that are not dependent on technology are vital. Society has become reliant on technologies and gadgets that were intended to *aid* in accomplishing tasks, and not intended to completely replace hard skills.</p><p>If you need to live your life surrounded by gadgets, gizmos, and the latest tech, chances are you are already diminishing your capability to adapt and function should something happen and they stop working.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Laws of Technology : 1 ) The more technologically advanced and/or complex a system is , the easier it will be to defeat or break.2 ) As information retained by technological systems increases , the less information is retained by humans , thus progressively minimizing the need for a human working knowledge.3 ) " Advanced " does n't necessarily mean advanced.Who needs to : 1 ) Learn how to read a map if you can use your GPS ? 2 ) Learn how to spell , if you have spell-check ? 3 ) Learn proper grammar , if you have grammar-check ? 4 ) Learn penmanship , if you type instead of write ? 5 ) Learn Morse code , if your cell phone can not get a signal ? Unfortunately , people have become so reliant on technology that they have made themselves completely vulnerable to the most simplest of problems , particularly # 1 above , which could be the difference between life and death if the GPS unit is damaged or the batteries are dead .
Number 4 is becoming an increasing problem , since pharmacists are increasingly misreading prescriptions because the handwriting of the doctor that wrote them is so bad that they dispense the wrong compound , with disasterous results .
) .Consider learning Morse code : If you are in a situation where you need it , like boating or hiking , chances are VERY good that your cell phone wo n't get a signal , and a 50 cent mirror or $ 2.50 flashlight will get a distress message out better .
Even with a radio , basic radio operation skills are far more helpful that being able to text , since cell reception is not as widespread , powerful , or reaching as a signal from a radio.Skills that are not dependent on technology are vital .
Society has become reliant on technologies and gadgets that were intended to * aid * in accomplishing tasks , and not intended to completely replace hard skills.If you need to live your life surrounded by gadgets , gizmos , and the latest tech , chances are you are already diminishing your capability to adapt and function should something happen and they stop working .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Laws of Technology:1) The more technologically advanced and/or complex a system is, the easier it will be to defeat or break.2) As information retained by technological systems increases, the less information is retained by humans, thus progressively minimizing the need for a human working knowledge.3) "Advanced" doesn't necessarily mean advanced.Who needs to:1) Learn how to read a map if you can use your GPS?2) Learn how to spell, if you have spell-check?3) Learn proper grammar, if you have grammar-check?4) Learn penmanship, if you type instead of write?5) Learn Morse code, if your cell phone cannot get a signal?Unfortunately, people have become so reliant on technology that they have made themselves completely vulnerable to the most simplest of problems, particularly #1 above, which could be the difference between life and death if the GPS unit is damaged or the batteries are dead.
Number 4 is becoming an increasing problem, since pharmacists are increasingly misreading prescriptions because the handwriting of the doctor that wrote them is so bad that they dispense the wrong compound, with disasterous results.
).Consider learning Morse code: If you are in a situation where you need it, like boating or hiking, chances are VERY good that your cell phone won't get a signal, and a 50 cent mirror or $2.50 flashlight will get a distress message out better.
Even with a radio, basic radio operation skills are far more helpful that being able to text, since cell reception is not as widespread, powerful, or reaching as a signal from a radio.Skills that are not dependent on technology are vital.
Society has become reliant on technologies and gadgets that were intended to *aid* in accomplishing tasks, and not intended to completely replace hard skills.If you need to live your life surrounded by gadgets, gizmos, and the latest tech, chances are you are already diminishing your capability to adapt and function should something happen and they stop working.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634341</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>gnasher719</author>
	<datestamp>1247140560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's all very well for those who use it occasionally, but recently when driving with my boss I realised that due to his over-reliance on sat-nav he was driving 10 miles out of his way to get home on a regular basis (on a journey of approx 50 miles).<br> <br>

He didn't even realise there was a shorter route.</p></div><p>You have to know \_how\_ to use a Satnav to get the best use out of it. <br> <br>
For example, TomTom can show you the "fastest" route and the "shortest" route. When showing the "fastest" route, it makes assumptions about the speed you can drive that are not always true; it often assumes a speed of 30 mph on major roads where you can go 50. Accordingly, it will prefer a route of twice the length on the motorway vs. a major road. On the other hand, "shortest" will get you on absolutely unsuitable roads. It will send you five miles down a single lane dirt track instead of 5.1 miles on a major road. <br> <br>
I tend to get good results by setting it to "speed limited to 45 mph" which will give it less preference for motorways. And if you think there is a better way (from home to work, for example), it is quite safe to experiment: Just go the other route. Sometimes two routes are actually very close; if one is two seconds shorter than TomTom will choose that one, but once you turned onto the other route, it changes its mind immediately. But if its own suggestion is a lot better, then it will for quite a while try to redirect you towards its initial suggestion.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's all very well for those who use it occasionally , but recently when driving with my boss I realised that due to his over-reliance on sat-nav he was driving 10 miles out of his way to get home on a regular basis ( on a journey of approx 50 miles ) .
He did n't even realise there was a shorter route.You have to know \ _how \ _ to use a Satnav to get the best use out of it .
For example , TomTom can show you the " fastest " route and the " shortest " route .
When showing the " fastest " route , it makes assumptions about the speed you can drive that are not always true ; it often assumes a speed of 30 mph on major roads where you can go 50 .
Accordingly , it will prefer a route of twice the length on the motorway vs. a major road .
On the other hand , " shortest " will get you on absolutely unsuitable roads .
It will send you five miles down a single lane dirt track instead of 5.1 miles on a major road .
I tend to get good results by setting it to " speed limited to 45 mph " which will give it less preference for motorways .
And if you think there is a better way ( from home to work , for example ) , it is quite safe to experiment : Just go the other route .
Sometimes two routes are actually very close ; if one is two seconds shorter than TomTom will choose that one , but once you turned onto the other route , it changes its mind immediately .
But if its own suggestion is a lot better , then it will for quite a while try to redirect you towards its initial suggestion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's all very well for those who use it occasionally, but recently when driving with my boss I realised that due to his over-reliance on sat-nav he was driving 10 miles out of his way to get home on a regular basis (on a journey of approx 50 miles).
He didn't even realise there was a shorter route.You have to know \_how\_ to use a Satnav to get the best use out of it.
For example, TomTom can show you the "fastest" route and the "shortest" route.
When showing the "fastest" route, it makes assumptions about the speed you can drive that are not always true; it often assumes a speed of 30 mph on major roads where you can go 50.
Accordingly, it will prefer a route of twice the length on the motorway vs. a major road.
On the other hand, "shortest" will get you on absolutely unsuitable roads.
It will send you five miles down a single lane dirt track instead of 5.1 miles on a major road.
I tend to get good results by setting it to "speed limited to 45 mph" which will give it less preference for motorways.
And if you think there is a better way (from home to work, for example), it is quite safe to experiment: Just go the other route.
Sometimes two routes are actually very close; if one is two seconds shorter than TomTom will choose that one, but once you turned onto the other route, it changes its mind immediately.
But if its own suggestion is a lot better, then it will for quite a while try to redirect you towards its initial suggestion.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634547</id>
	<title>Misuse of post codes = confusion</title>
	<author>Chief Camel Breeder</author>
	<datestamp>1247143320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the UK, many Sat-Nav destinations are programmed by entering the post code (which is specific to ~10 houses here). Some Sat-Navs, particularly the ones used by delivery firms, map our post code, for our house in rural Devon, to the <em>wrong village entirely</em>, sending the trucks up some pretty dodgy roads to a place where there aren't any locals to ask.</p><p>Sure, people don't entirely trust these things. But it's for practical reasons, not because of the angsty bullshit in TFA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the UK , many Sat-Nav destinations are programmed by entering the post code ( which is specific to ~ 10 houses here ) .
Some Sat-Navs , particularly the ones used by delivery firms , map our post code , for our house in rural Devon , to the wrong village entirely , sending the trucks up some pretty dodgy roads to a place where there are n't any locals to ask.Sure , people do n't entirely trust these things .
But it 's for practical reasons , not because of the angsty bullshit in TFA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the UK, many Sat-Nav destinations are programmed by entering the post code (which is specific to ~10 houses here).
Some Sat-Navs, particularly the ones used by delivery firms, map our post code, for our house in rural Devon, to the wrong village entirely, sending the trucks up some pretty dodgy roads to a place where there aren't any locals to ask.Sure, people don't entirely trust these things.
But it's for practical reasons, not because of the angsty bullshit in TFA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637889</id>
	<title>Cavemen</title>
	<author>MikeURL</author>
	<datestamp>1247159520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hate to say it but human beings gave up a purely symbolic understanding of the universe about the same time that our cerebellum developed beyond early hominid.
<br> <br>
In any case, leaving that aside, should people know how to read maps?  Of course.  Should people know north from south?  Sure.  Should maps be shredded up so that we never leave a 5 mile radius of where we live?  Well, that would appeal to people who want to return to the days when humans wore the skins of their prey because they could not tell the difference between the symbolism and the actual act of hunting.  Hey, I sometimes pine for the halcyon days of yore like anyone else.  But in this case I think we have to accept that this particular genie isn't going back in the bottle.
<br> <br>
Sure it is true that modern man has...issues...with the way the world is symbolized and the much more rational approach that is used.  Moving from a map on paper to a map in a little square box, that tells you where you are, is an even more rational abstraction from the more intuitive abstraction that a more primitive mind would like.
<br> <br>
If I may put all that aside for a moment I'd just note that my GPS device and Google Earth have had me exploring the local area where I live much more than I ever did before.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hate to say it but human beings gave up a purely symbolic understanding of the universe about the same time that our cerebellum developed beyond early hominid .
In any case , leaving that aside , should people know how to read maps ?
Of course .
Should people know north from south ?
Sure. Should maps be shredded up so that we never leave a 5 mile radius of where we live ?
Well , that would appeal to people who want to return to the days when humans wore the skins of their prey because they could not tell the difference between the symbolism and the actual act of hunting .
Hey , I sometimes pine for the halcyon days of yore like anyone else .
But in this case I think we have to accept that this particular genie is n't going back in the bottle .
Sure it is true that modern man has...issues...with the way the world is symbolized and the much more rational approach that is used .
Moving from a map on paper to a map in a little square box , that tells you where you are , is an even more rational abstraction from the more intuitive abstraction that a more primitive mind would like .
If I may put all that aside for a moment I 'd just note that my GPS device and Google Earth have had me exploring the local area where I live much more than I ever did before .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hate to say it but human beings gave up a purely symbolic understanding of the universe about the same time that our cerebellum developed beyond early hominid.
In any case, leaving that aside, should people know how to read maps?
Of course.
Should people know north from south?
Sure.  Should maps be shredded up so that we never leave a 5 mile radius of where we live?
Well, that would appeal to people who want to return to the days when humans wore the skins of their prey because they could not tell the difference between the symbolism and the actual act of hunting.
Hey, I sometimes pine for the halcyon days of yore like anyone else.
But in this case I think we have to accept that this particular genie isn't going back in the bottle.
Sure it is true that modern man has...issues...with the way the world is symbolized and the much more rational approach that is used.
Moving from a map on paper to a map in a little square box, that tells you where you are, is an even more rational abstraction from the more intuitive abstraction that a more primitive mind would like.
If I may put all that aside for a moment I'd just note that my GPS device and Google Earth have had me exploring the local area where I live much more than I ever did before.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633399</id>
	<title>Re:Map on TomTom</title>
	<author>lordandmaker</author>
	<datestamp>1247131200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I never understood why a TomTom or similar device has to display a map of the surroundings of the vehicle. It distracts from the driving and it's useless unless you know where you are, in which case you don't need the TomTom anyway. You only need the voice.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>

I tried following just the voice commands for a bit, and couldn't get myself to the point where I trusted myself to be correctly following the instructions. I don't think I did anything wrong in that time, but every turning felt like a bit of a gamble.

In contrast, a quick look at the screen with a map on it and I can see the context of the junction. So I know that I've got to turn left here but 20 feet down the road I want to turn right, say. Or that this little road on the left isn't actually the 'next left' the satnav wants me to go down.

I'm also appalling at counting roundabout exits (though I tend to give directions using them), and work better off knowing which direction I'm going to be leaving in, where, again, the map comes in handy.

In general, I find the voice mostly useless, so turn it off, and just use the map with the arrows at the bottom. I do tend to have a reasonable idea of where I'm going, though - I'll have researched the route and at the very least recognise towns I'm going to be going through or towards.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I never understood why a TomTom or similar device has to display a map of the surroundings of the vehicle .
It distracts from the driving and it 's useless unless you know where you are , in which case you do n't need the TomTom anyway .
You only need the voice .
I tried following just the voice commands for a bit , and could n't get myself to the point where I trusted myself to be correctly following the instructions .
I do n't think I did anything wrong in that time , but every turning felt like a bit of a gamble .
In contrast , a quick look at the screen with a map on it and I can see the context of the junction .
So I know that I 've got to turn left here but 20 feet down the road I want to turn right , say .
Or that this little road on the left is n't actually the 'next left ' the satnav wants me to go down .
I 'm also appalling at counting roundabout exits ( though I tend to give directions using them ) , and work better off knowing which direction I 'm going to be leaving in , where , again , the map comes in handy .
In general , I find the voice mostly useless , so turn it off , and just use the map with the arrows at the bottom .
I do tend to have a reasonable idea of where I 'm going , though - I 'll have researched the route and at the very least recognise towns I 'm going to be going through or towards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I never understood why a TomTom or similar device has to display a map of the surroundings of the vehicle.
It distracts from the driving and it's useless unless you know where you are, in which case you don't need the TomTom anyway.
You only need the voice.
I tried following just the voice commands for a bit, and couldn't get myself to the point where I trusted myself to be correctly following the instructions.
I don't think I did anything wrong in that time, but every turning felt like a bit of a gamble.
In contrast, a quick look at the screen with a map on it and I can see the context of the junction.
So I know that I've got to turn left here but 20 feet down the road I want to turn right, say.
Or that this little road on the left isn't actually the 'next left' the satnav wants me to go down.
I'm also appalling at counting roundabout exits (though I tend to give directions using them), and work better off knowing which direction I'm going to be leaving in, where, again, the map comes in handy.
In general, I find the voice mostly useless, so turn it off, and just use the map with the arrows at the bottom.
I do tend to have a reasonable idea of where I'm going, though - I'll have researched the route and at the very least recognise towns I'm going to be going through or towards.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633165</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634831</id>
	<title>Sat nav woman??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247146020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sat nav woman?? I have John Cleese on mine! =)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sat nav woman ? ?
I have John Cleese on mine !
= )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sat nav woman??
I have John Cleese on mine!
=)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638199</id>
	<title>Always a Downside</title>
	<author>librarybob</author>
	<datestamp>1247160960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm reminded of the old New Yorker cartoon<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... a map of the US drawn from a New Yorker's perspective.  There's Manhattan, the Hudson River, New Jersey, then nothing but blank space until L.A. and San Francisco.  Everything else is ignored.  "Flyover country" seems to be the common term.

SatNav means being able to go some place by car w/o having experienced what's in between.  That may not always be a good thing and the question arises as to whether or not ignorance is indeed bliss.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm reminded of the old New Yorker cartoon ... a map of the US drawn from a New Yorker 's perspective .
There 's Manhattan , the Hudson River , New Jersey , then nothing but blank space until L.A. and San Francisco .
Everything else is ignored .
" Flyover country " seems to be the common term .
SatNav means being able to go some place by car w/o having experienced what 's in between .
That may not always be a good thing and the question arises as to whether or not ignorance is indeed bliss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm reminded of the old New Yorker cartoon ... a map of the US drawn from a New Yorker's perspective.
There's Manhattan, the Hudson River, New Jersey, then nothing but blank space until L.A. and San Francisco.
Everything else is ignored.
"Flyover country" seems to be the common term.
SatNav means being able to go some place by car w/o having experienced what's in between.
That may not always be a good thing and the question arises as to whether or not ignorance is indeed bliss.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636111</id>
	<title>Re:OpenStreetMap the future for local knowledge</title>
	<author>dasunt</author>
	<datestamp>1247152680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Most of the digital mapping data misses out a lot of local features. Even the Tele Atlas data that Google maps uses is buggy and in Western Europe misses minor roads, and I've even seen it miss junctions between major roads. In Eastern Europe it often misses entire roads and cities (e.g. compare the capital of Albania on Google Maps and OpenStreetMap.</p></div></blockquote><p>
In the US, Google Maps misses new additions.
</p><p>
A family member whose business requires him to frequently go to new additions recommended a Hudson atlas to me -- about $30 at a gas station.  It covers the entire metro area I'm in (plus a mediocre state map in the back of the book), includes house numbering, and will have the latest additions.  It is cheaper than a GPS but does require taking a minute or so before the trip to map out the route.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of the digital mapping data misses out a lot of local features .
Even the Tele Atlas data that Google maps uses is buggy and in Western Europe misses minor roads , and I 've even seen it miss junctions between major roads .
In Eastern Europe it often misses entire roads and cities ( e.g .
compare the capital of Albania on Google Maps and OpenStreetMap .
In the US , Google Maps misses new additions .
A family member whose business requires him to frequently go to new additions recommended a Hudson atlas to me -- about $ 30 at a gas station .
It covers the entire metro area I 'm in ( plus a mediocre state map in the back of the book ) , includes house numbering , and will have the latest additions .
It is cheaper than a GPS but does require taking a minute or so before the trip to map out the route .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of the digital mapping data misses out a lot of local features.
Even the Tele Atlas data that Google maps uses is buggy and in Western Europe misses minor roads, and I've even seen it miss junctions between major roads.
In Eastern Europe it often misses entire roads and cities (e.g.
compare the capital of Albania on Google Maps and OpenStreetMap.
In the US, Google Maps misses new additions.
A family member whose business requires him to frequently go to new additions recommended a Hudson atlas to me -- about $30 at a gas station.
It covers the entire metro area I'm in (plus a mediocre state map in the back of the book), includes house numbering, and will have the latest additions.
It is cheaper than a GPS but does require taking a minute or so before the trip to map out the route.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633743</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633553</id>
	<title>Re:Is Sat-Nav Destroying Local Knowledge?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247133060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's just like the buggy coach whip makers!</p></div><p>It's time for a new analogy. This one is tired, and it never made much sense in the first place.</p><p>Why the whip makers?  Surely the coach makers themselves were feeling some pain?  And not because of the invention of the car, but because of Ford's modern manufacturing method.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's just like the buggy coach whip makers ! It 's time for a new analogy .
This one is tired , and it never made much sense in the first place.Why the whip makers ?
Surely the coach makers themselves were feeling some pain ?
And not because of the invention of the car , but because of Ford 's modern manufacturing method .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's just like the buggy coach whip makers!It's time for a new analogy.
This one is tired, and it never made much sense in the first place.Why the whip makers?
Surely the coach makers themselves were feeling some pain?
And not because of the invention of the car, but because of Ford's modern manufacturing method.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633119</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634707</id>
	<title>Re:We use them because they're better</title>
	<author>MozzleyOne</author>
	<datestamp>1247145060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>if you are lost it's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you don't know where you are to start with.</p> </div><p>Look up the road you're travelling on in the index<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>if you are lost it 's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you do n't know where you are to start with .
Look up the road you 're travelling on in the index .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if you are lost it's impossible to work out how to get to where you want to be - as you don't know where you are to start with.
Look up the road you're travelling on in the index ...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635283</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, which planet Earth? -sextants still in u</title>
	<author>SolarStorm</author>
	<datestamp>1247148840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Im a pilot and had to quit flying for 4 years due to my medical.  When I started flying again, I went up for a few hours of dual instruction just to get checked out.</p><p>I was mortified, Im 49 years old and learned to fly in a 1949 fleet canuk with minimal instumentation.  One of the greatest skills my instructors taught me was to ALWAYS know where I am.</p><p>My young instructor almost laughed at my wax paper covered knee map when we sat down.  I have pencil attached to it with 1" marking so I can get scale and distance easily.</p><p>We went up practiced a few things and then he said lets head for home.  I started to turn to the heading I knew would take us back to the airport, my 25 year old instructor reached for the GPS.  By the time he had finished, I was already on heading.</p><p>Now the technology is great, but he was really impressed that I knew the heading home, as he said he only had a general idea.  I truly wonder what would happen to a young guy like that if the GPS ever failed?  More importantly, I will bet he is not teaching the map reading skills that will allow new pilots to accurately, and quickly find their way home.  (Just an FYI, I live in Northern Alberta, the land of few man made landmarks and a million little lakes that all look the same and change shape based on water level)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Im a pilot and had to quit flying for 4 years due to my medical .
When I started flying again , I went up for a few hours of dual instruction just to get checked out.I was mortified , Im 49 years old and learned to fly in a 1949 fleet canuk with minimal instumentation .
One of the greatest skills my instructors taught me was to ALWAYS know where I am.My young instructor almost laughed at my wax paper covered knee map when we sat down .
I have pencil attached to it with 1 " marking so I can get scale and distance easily.We went up practiced a few things and then he said lets head for home .
I started to turn to the heading I knew would take us back to the airport , my 25 year old instructor reached for the GPS .
By the time he had finished , I was already on heading.Now the technology is great , but he was really impressed that I knew the heading home , as he said he only had a general idea .
I truly wonder what would happen to a young guy like that if the GPS ever failed ?
More importantly , I will bet he is not teaching the map reading skills that will allow new pilots to accurately , and quickly find their way home .
( Just an FYI , I live in Northern Alberta , the land of few man made landmarks and a million little lakes that all look the same and change shape based on water level )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Im a pilot and had to quit flying for 4 years due to my medical.
When I started flying again, I went up for a few hours of dual instruction just to get checked out.I was mortified, Im 49 years old and learned to fly in a 1949 fleet canuk with minimal instumentation.
One of the greatest skills my instructors taught me was to ALWAYS know where I am.My young instructor almost laughed at my wax paper covered knee map when we sat down.
I have pencil attached to it with 1" marking so I can get scale and distance easily.We went up practiced a few things and then he said lets head for home.
I started to turn to the heading I knew would take us back to the airport, my 25 year old instructor reached for the GPS.
By the time he had finished, I was already on heading.Now the technology is great, but he was really impressed that I knew the heading home, as he said he only had a general idea.
I truly wonder what would happen to a young guy like that if the GPS ever failed?
More importantly, I will bet he is not teaching the map reading skills that will allow new pilots to accurately, and quickly find their way home.
(Just an FYI, I live in Northern Alberta, the land of few man made landmarks and a million little lakes that all look the same and change shape based on water level)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633207</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634017</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247137440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Couldn't agree more. I'm a mountaineer, I always carry local highly detailed maps when I'm out climbing and refused to even look at a GPS for years. Recently I bit the bullet and bought a Suunto x10 gps watch, I still have maps for backup but am finding that most of the time they stay in my pack - the GPS makes navigation simple and straightforward, and it's nice to know that even in a white out I can instantly get a fix on my location to the nearest few metres.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could n't agree more .
I 'm a mountaineer , I always carry local highly detailed maps when I 'm out climbing and refused to even look at a GPS for years .
Recently I bit the bullet and bought a Suunto x10 gps watch , I still have maps for backup but am finding that most of the time they stay in my pack - the GPS makes navigation simple and straightforward , and it 's nice to know that even in a white out I can instantly get a fix on my location to the nearest few metres .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Couldn't agree more.
I'm a mountaineer, I always carry local highly detailed maps when I'm out climbing and refused to even look at a GPS for years.
Recently I bit the bullet and bought a Suunto x10 gps watch, I still have maps for backup but am finding that most of the time they stay in my pack - the GPS makes navigation simple and straightforward, and it's nice to know that even in a white out I can instantly get a fix on my location to the nearest few metres.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633297</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635661</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>jollyreaper</author>
	<datestamp>1247150700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I, for one, keep to the old ways. I keep a compass and a paper map in my car and have thusfar avoided buying a satnav for fear of blunting my orienteering skills gained through my time spent in Scouts. A valuable skill which I'm sure will keep me from hitting the wall when the revolution comes.</p></div><p>A car? Such extravagance! Me and mine don't cotton to such tomfoolery, no sir. A horse and buggy were good enough for my sire and his his sire before him and on back some ten generations. If it's good enough for them, then by the heavens above, it's good enough for me. I suppose you wear buttons, too.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I , for one , keep to the old ways .
I keep a compass and a paper map in my car and have thusfar avoided buying a satnav for fear of blunting my orienteering skills gained through my time spent in Scouts .
A valuable skill which I 'm sure will keep me from hitting the wall when the revolution comes.A car ?
Such extravagance !
Me and mine do n't cotton to such tomfoolery , no sir .
A horse and buggy were good enough for my sire and his his sire before him and on back some ten generations .
If it 's good enough for them , then by the heavens above , it 's good enough for me .
I suppose you wear buttons , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I, for one, keep to the old ways.
I keep a compass and a paper map in my car and have thusfar avoided buying a satnav for fear of blunting my orienteering skills gained through my time spent in Scouts.
A valuable skill which I'm sure will keep me from hitting the wall when the revolution comes.A car?
Such extravagance!
Me and mine don't cotton to such tomfoolery, no sir.
A horse and buggy were good enough for my sire and his his sire before him and on back some ten generations.
If it's good enough for them, then by the heavens above, it's good enough for me.
I suppose you wear buttons, too.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636135</id>
	<title>No good at the borders of civilization</title>
	<author>Mal-2</author>
	<datestamp>1247152800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went to a party on July 4 where the directions were clearly given, along with the admonition "Do not follow Google Maps or your GPS, or you will likely end up on a road that will destroy your car." Even the road they recommended was pretty hard on the average passenger car, and it was one of the few times living in Los Angeles that I felt I had a significant benefit from having a 4WD vehicle. It's not like this was way out in the sticks either, it was just north of the 118 freeway in Chatsworth.</p><p>On the other hand, having access to real-time traffic reports was exceptionally useful yesterday when the 405 was slammed due to the fire near the Getty Center. It still took well over twice the usual time to get home, but at least I had the option of choosing the least heinous route.</p><p>Mal-2</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went to a party on July 4 where the directions were clearly given , along with the admonition " Do not follow Google Maps or your GPS , or you will likely end up on a road that will destroy your car .
" Even the road they recommended was pretty hard on the average passenger car , and it was one of the few times living in Los Angeles that I felt I had a significant benefit from having a 4WD vehicle .
It 's not like this was way out in the sticks either , it was just north of the 118 freeway in Chatsworth.On the other hand , having access to real-time traffic reports was exceptionally useful yesterday when the 405 was slammed due to the fire near the Getty Center .
It still took well over twice the usual time to get home , but at least I had the option of choosing the least heinous route.Mal-2</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went to a party on July 4 where the directions were clearly given, along with the admonition "Do not follow Google Maps or your GPS, or you will likely end up on a road that will destroy your car.
" Even the road they recommended was pretty hard on the average passenger car, and it was one of the few times living in Los Angeles that I felt I had a significant benefit from having a 4WD vehicle.
It's not like this was way out in the sticks either, it was just north of the 118 freeway in Chatsworth.On the other hand, having access to real-time traffic reports was exceptionally useful yesterday when the 405 was slammed due to the fire near the Getty Center.
It still took well over twice the usual time to get home, but at least I had the option of choosing the least heinous route.Mal-2</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637217</id>
	<title>Re:OpenStreetMap the future for local knowledge</title>
	<author>Colin Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1247156400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine you could update the map using the gps info in the phone, or even update the information on the map directly. The more people who use a road the more accurate it'll become. That's the big advantage which Nokia have over the competition.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine you could update the map using the gps info in the phone , or even update the information on the map directly .
The more people who use a road the more accurate it 'll become .
That 's the big advantage which Nokia have over the competition .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine you could update the map using the gps info in the phone, or even update the information on the map directly.
The more people who use a road the more accurate it'll become.
That's the big advantage which Nokia have over the competition.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633743</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28644983</id>
	<title>Re:Real human directions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247148480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Which is good. I'd rather people have more brain capacity available for paying attention to driving conditions than getting a mental map of the area.</p><p>My pet peeve about directions is when people say "you can go  way or  way". I don't want choices, damn it, I've got enough to think about when driving! Just give me one, unambigous route. Satnav wins there too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Which is good .
I 'd rather people have more brain capacity available for paying attention to driving conditions than getting a mental map of the area.My pet peeve about directions is when people say " you can go way or way " .
I do n't want choices , damn it , I 've got enough to think about when driving !
Just give me one , unambigous route .
Satnav wins there too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which is good.
I'd rather people have more brain capacity available for paying attention to driving conditions than getting a mental map of the area.My pet peeve about directions is when people say "you can go  way or  way".
I don't want choices, damn it, I've got enough to think about when driving!
Just give me one, unambigous route.
Satnav wins there too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633277</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634851</id>
	<title>Re:Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>pandymen</author>
	<datestamp>1247146200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Typically, if a road is not suited for trucks in the U.S., the village/township/county puts up a "NO TRUCKS OVER 2 TONS SIGN."  This prevents small village roads from being treated as a "rat run."

Tom Tom and Garmin are not to blame for trucks using unsuitable roads.  This could happen anyway if the road is convienently placed.  It is up to the local government to place signage to prevent this occurence.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Typically , if a road is not suited for trucks in the U.S. , the village/township/county puts up a " NO TRUCKS OVER 2 TONS SIGN .
" This prevents small village roads from being treated as a " rat run .
" Tom Tom and Garmin are not to blame for trucks using unsuitable roads .
This could happen anyway if the road is convienently placed .
It is up to the local government to place signage to prevent this occurence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Typically, if a road is not suited for trucks in the U.S., the village/township/county puts up a "NO TRUCKS OVER 2 TONS SIGN.
"  This prevents small village roads from being treated as a "rat run.
"

Tom Tom and Garmin are not to blame for trucks using unsuitable roads.
This could happen anyway if the road is convienently placed.
It is up to the local government to place signage to prevent this occurence.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634159</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637297</id>
	<title>I love satnav.  Warts and all.</title>
	<author>TigerPlish</author>
	<datestamp>1247156820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a wee bit overloaded in situations where I don't know where I am and there's lots of sensory input -- so imagine what a place like Houston or Chicago or even London feels like to me.</p><p>Satnav took a good chunk of bad out of that.  That alone was worth the price of admission.</p><p>That it has a few quirks, sure.  But it's still better than the alternative.</p><p>Also, I find with a GPS unit I can get to know this town better, and I've been here for 10 years.  The satnav has shown me things I didn' know were here.  So if anything, it has increased my knowledge of my own local area.  My experience kinda deflates the question posed.</p><p>As for the thing about men not liking a female voice telling them where to go and when to turn -- BS.  I don't mind Suzie the TomTom computer,  she does alright, albeit she absolutely mangles some street names... and I bet many more men don't mind.</p><p>The ones that do mind, I'm willing to bet have issues with being told what to do by *anyone*, not just a computer's voice.  40 years ago their ancestors probably refused to pull over to ask for directions, and thought maps were for lining the bottom of the glovebox.  Just my theory, no evidence to support it, blabla.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a wee bit overloaded in situations where I do n't know where I am and there 's lots of sensory input -- so imagine what a place like Houston or Chicago or even London feels like to me.Satnav took a good chunk of bad out of that .
That alone was worth the price of admission.That it has a few quirks , sure .
But it 's still better than the alternative.Also , I find with a GPS unit I can get to know this town better , and I 've been here for 10 years .
The satnav has shown me things I didn ' know were here .
So if anything , it has increased my knowledge of my own local area .
My experience kinda deflates the question posed.As for the thing about men not liking a female voice telling them where to go and when to turn -- BS .
I do n't mind Suzie the TomTom computer , she does alright , albeit she absolutely mangles some street names... and I bet many more men do n't mind.The ones that do mind , I 'm willing to bet have issues with being told what to do by * anyone * , not just a computer 's voice .
40 years ago their ancestors probably refused to pull over to ask for directions , and thought maps were for lining the bottom of the glovebox .
Just my theory , no evidence to support it , blabla .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a wee bit overloaded in situations where I don't know where I am and there's lots of sensory input -- so imagine what a place like Houston or Chicago or even London feels like to me.Satnav took a good chunk of bad out of that.
That alone was worth the price of admission.That it has a few quirks, sure.
But it's still better than the alternative.Also, I find with a GPS unit I can get to know this town better, and I've been here for 10 years.
The satnav has shown me things I didn' know were here.
So if anything, it has increased my knowledge of my own local area.
My experience kinda deflates the question posed.As for the thing about men not liking a female voice telling them where to go and when to turn -- BS.
I don't mind Suzie the TomTom computer,  she does alright, albeit she absolutely mangles some street names... and I bet many more men don't mind.The ones that do mind, I'm willing to bet have issues with being told what to do by *anyone*, not just a computer's voice.
40 years ago their ancestors probably refused to pull over to ask for directions, and thought maps were for lining the bottom of the glovebox.
Just my theory, no evidence to support it, blabla.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634797</id>
	<title>distance calculator</title>
	<author>hellfish006</author>
	<datestamp>1247145720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just use mine to tell me how far I am from my destination.  And its fun to find out what body of water I am driving by, or the name of that industrial park.  I still prefer to learn the backroads manually of an area I live in because its good to know.  Also my GPS is built into a car so I need to know them when in my fiance's car.  Plus, I enjoy giving people directions</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just use mine to tell me how far I am from my destination .
And its fun to find out what body of water I am driving by , or the name of that industrial park .
I still prefer to learn the backroads manually of an area I live in because its good to know .
Also my GPS is built into a car so I need to know them when in my fiance 's car .
Plus , I enjoy giving people directions</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just use mine to tell me how far I am from my destination.
And its fun to find out what body of water I am driving by, or the name of that industrial park.
I still prefer to learn the backroads manually of an area I live in because its good to know.
Also my GPS is built into a car so I need to know them when in my fiance's car.
Plus, I enjoy giving people directions</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633995</id>
	<title>Satnav and wikipedia - both godsends</title>
	<author>Tomsk70</author>
	<datestamp>1247137320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Satnav spelt the end of marital arguements while driving. That alone makes it worthwhile, as suddenly it didn't matter even if you took a wrong turn!</p><p>Wikipedia spelt the end of pub-style arguements over astroturf and so on - suddenly, you can look it up, just like the British Police have recently been told to!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Satnav spelt the end of marital arguements while driving .
That alone makes it worthwhile , as suddenly it did n't matter even if you took a wrong turn ! Wikipedia spelt the end of pub-style arguements over astroturf and so on - suddenly , you can look it up , just like the British Police have recently been told to !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Satnav spelt the end of marital arguements while driving.
That alone makes it worthwhile, as suddenly it didn't matter even if you took a wrong turn!Wikipedia spelt the end of pub-style arguements over astroturf and so on - suddenly, you can look it up, just like the British Police have recently been told to!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635685</id>
	<title>Re:OpenStreetMap the future for local knowledge</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247150880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes. You are lucky to have that level of detail available on a map. Not so here in Canada -- although the survey maps are pretty good they do miss the fine detail. Being away from mainstream US/Canada the mix of detail and error in the GPS is a source of continued amusement. We use the GPS for local driving sometimes because the 'shortest/quickest' takes us down new routes that we would not have explored before. But often the route we are on is just blank space on the GPS. Besides missing the local information, the other problem we frequently have with GPS routing is dealing with detours around local construction and accidents. With a map the alternates are at least visible -- with a GPS it is not so convenient to have to drag that window around to see choices. So we travel with a bunch of maps (annotated in places) to suppliment the limited view of the GPS. (Side note -- maps can be wrong too. For years I drove in southern wisconsin and found that one stretch of road was completely wrong on the map but never corrected -- i sure tried. So electronic tools have no monopoly, just quicker deliver of poor info.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes .
You are lucky to have that level of detail available on a map .
Not so here in Canada -- although the survey maps are pretty good they do miss the fine detail .
Being away from mainstream US/Canada the mix of detail and error in the GPS is a source of continued amusement .
We use the GPS for local driving sometimes because the 'shortest/quickest ' takes us down new routes that we would not have explored before .
But often the route we are on is just blank space on the GPS .
Besides missing the local information , the other problem we frequently have with GPS routing is dealing with detours around local construction and accidents .
With a map the alternates are at least visible -- with a GPS it is not so convenient to have to drag that window around to see choices .
So we travel with a bunch of maps ( annotated in places ) to suppliment the limited view of the GPS .
( Side note -- maps can be wrong too .
For years I drove in southern wisconsin and found that one stretch of road was completely wrong on the map but never corrected -- i sure tried .
So electronic tools have no monopoly , just quicker deliver of poor info .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes.
You are lucky to have that level of detail available on a map.
Not so here in Canada -- although the survey maps are pretty good they do miss the fine detail.
Being away from mainstream US/Canada the mix of detail and error in the GPS is a source of continued amusement.
We use the GPS for local driving sometimes because the 'shortest/quickest' takes us down new routes that we would not have explored before.
But often the route we are on is just blank space on the GPS.
Besides missing the local information, the other problem we frequently have with GPS routing is dealing with detours around local construction and accidents.
With a map the alternates are at least visible -- with a GPS it is not so convenient to have to drag that window around to see choices.
So we travel with a bunch of maps (annotated in places) to suppliment the limited view of the GPS.
(Side note -- maps can be wrong too.
For years I drove in southern wisconsin and found that one stretch of road was completely wrong on the map but never corrected -- i sure tried.
So electronic tools have no monopoly, just quicker deliver of poor info.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633743</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28645207</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247150460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does he mean GPS.  The world does not need an England only phase for GPS.  Even the french use GPS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does he mean GPS .
The world does not need an England only phase for GPS .
Even the french use GPS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does he mean GPS.
The world does not need an England only phase for GPS.
Even the french use GPS</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633911</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>SerpentMage</author>
	<datestamp>1247136420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow so you are then one of those old foggies....</p><p>
I have had Sat Nav since 1999 and am on my 3'rd generation device, and would not live without it. The days of SatNav devices driving wrong or badly are actually long gone. You just need to get one of the latest generation devices (about a year old) from either Garmin or TomTom. If you get the cheap budget device their software is actually quite crap and their navigation is quite crap.
</p><p>
Let me illustrate on why you should always have a SatNav device. I live in Europe, but bought a TomTom with European and North American maps. Latest device actually (3 months old). I landed in SFO and needed to take a taxi to Santa Clara convention center. So I jumped into a taxi and told the driver to take me to Santa Clara. He looked at me and said do you know where it is? I said not exactly, but roughly. He said, "ok let me phone this in." I replied, "huh?" He said, I will drive and get the directions.
</p><p>
Luckily I had my satnav with me, and said, FOLLOW THE DAMM DIRECTIONS! Of course he did not get a tip.
</p><p>
It was at that point I asked why he did not have a SatNav? He said no need. Though interestingly for the shuttle services they all seem to have SatNav's. And it did not dawn onto me until my discussion with my wife. The shuttle services are paid by the trip, not the distance, and taxi are paid by the distance, not the trip. It makes sense for the shuttle to have satnav since driving around idly will loose money. Yet for taxis driving around is part of the game!!!
</p><p>
In summary, stop being an old foggie and get a sat-nav you will be happier!
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow so you are then one of those old foggies... . I have had Sat Nav since 1999 and am on my 3'rd generation device , and would not live without it .
The days of SatNav devices driving wrong or badly are actually long gone .
You just need to get one of the latest generation devices ( about a year old ) from either Garmin or TomTom .
If you get the cheap budget device their software is actually quite crap and their navigation is quite crap .
Let me illustrate on why you should always have a SatNav device .
I live in Europe , but bought a TomTom with European and North American maps .
Latest device actually ( 3 months old ) .
I landed in SFO and needed to take a taxi to Santa Clara convention center .
So I jumped into a taxi and told the driver to take me to Santa Clara .
He looked at me and said do you know where it is ?
I said not exactly , but roughly .
He said , " ok let me phone this in .
" I replied , " huh ?
" He said , I will drive and get the directions .
Luckily I had my satnav with me , and said , FOLLOW THE DAMM DIRECTIONS !
Of course he did not get a tip .
It was at that point I asked why he did not have a SatNav ?
He said no need .
Though interestingly for the shuttle services they all seem to have SatNav 's .
And it did not dawn onto me until my discussion with my wife .
The shuttle services are paid by the trip , not the distance , and taxi are paid by the distance , not the trip .
It makes sense for the shuttle to have satnav since driving around idly will loose money .
Yet for taxis driving around is part of the game ! ! !
In summary , stop being an old foggie and get a sat-nav you will be happier !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow so you are then one of those old foggies....
I have had Sat Nav since 1999 and am on my 3'rd generation device, and would not live without it.
The days of SatNav devices driving wrong or badly are actually long gone.
You just need to get one of the latest generation devices (about a year old) from either Garmin or TomTom.
If you get the cheap budget device their software is actually quite crap and their navigation is quite crap.
Let me illustrate on why you should always have a SatNav device.
I live in Europe, but bought a TomTom with European and North American maps.
Latest device actually (3 months old).
I landed in SFO and needed to take a taxi to Santa Clara convention center.
So I jumped into a taxi and told the driver to take me to Santa Clara.
He looked at me and said do you know where it is?
I said not exactly, but roughly.
He said, "ok let me phone this in.
" I replied, "huh?
" He said, I will drive and get the directions.
Luckily I had my satnav with me, and said, FOLLOW THE DAMM DIRECTIONS!
Of course he did not get a tip.
It was at that point I asked why he did not have a SatNav?
He said no need.
Though interestingly for the shuttle services they all seem to have SatNav's.
And it did not dawn onto me until my discussion with my wife.
The shuttle services are paid by the trip, not the distance, and taxi are paid by the distance, not the trip.
It makes sense for the shuttle to have satnav since driving around idly will loose money.
Yet for taxis driving around is part of the game!!!
In summary, stop being an old foggie and get a sat-nav you will be happier!
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633471</id>
	<title>Forget about reading maps...</title>
	<author>adamchou</author>
	<datestamp>1247131920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Its one thing to not be able to read maps, but these things are turning people dependent and dumb. I have multiple friends that rely on their nav so much that they can't remember how to get to my place that is less than 10 miles away after they've driven here over five times. They turn into drones. One girl I dated had to rent a car once and she lived only five miles away and she couldn't remember how to get to my place. From her place, my place is literally left, right then straight for 3 miles, then left, then right. because she didn't know the street names.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Its one thing to not be able to read maps , but these things are turning people dependent and dumb .
I have multiple friends that rely on their nav so much that they ca n't remember how to get to my place that is less than 10 miles away after they 've driven here over five times .
They turn into drones .
One girl I dated had to rent a car once and she lived only five miles away and she could n't remember how to get to my place .
From her place , my place is literally left , right then straight for 3 miles , then left , then right .
because she did n't know the street names .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its one thing to not be able to read maps, but these things are turning people dependent and dumb.
I have multiple friends that rely on their nav so much that they can't remember how to get to my place that is less than 10 miles away after they've driven here over five times.
They turn into drones.
One girl I dated had to rent a car once and she lived only five miles away and she couldn't remember how to get to my place.
From her place, my place is literally left, right then straight for 3 miles, then left, then right.
because she didn't know the street names.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634197</id>
	<title>Maps are still more complete</title>
	<author>192939495969798999</author>
	<datestamp>1247139180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Last I checked, GPS satnav's were still pointing people off cliffs, to invisible roads, and not particularly around construction, whereas a cheap local city map can get you around all that.  Secondly, Google maps still doesn't show the right roads in my newish (3-4 year old) subdivision, and despite the subdivision being in a big-ish city (not way out in nowhere) in a nest of existing roads, GMaps still can't find my street by name.  Thus, when people want to know how to get to my house, I do what has worked for centuries - I draw a simple little map.  GPS doesn't make people dumb, dumb people rely on the easiest possible general solutions to anything, regardless of any flaws to those solutions.  Now we're getting a good view of the sheer number of dumb people... scary, huh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Last I checked , GPS satnav 's were still pointing people off cliffs , to invisible roads , and not particularly around construction , whereas a cheap local city map can get you around all that .
Secondly , Google maps still does n't show the right roads in my newish ( 3-4 year old ) subdivision , and despite the subdivision being in a big-ish city ( not way out in nowhere ) in a nest of existing roads , GMaps still ca n't find my street by name .
Thus , when people want to know how to get to my house , I do what has worked for centuries - I draw a simple little map .
GPS does n't make people dumb , dumb people rely on the easiest possible general solutions to anything , regardless of any flaws to those solutions .
Now we 're getting a good view of the sheer number of dumb people... scary , huh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last I checked, GPS satnav's were still pointing people off cliffs, to invisible roads, and not particularly around construction, whereas a cheap local city map can get you around all that.
Secondly, Google maps still doesn't show the right roads in my newish (3-4 year old) subdivision, and despite the subdivision being in a big-ish city (not way out in nowhere) in a nest of existing roads, GMaps still can't find my street by name.
Thus, when people want to know how to get to my house, I do what has worked for centuries - I draw a simple little map.
GPS doesn't make people dumb, dumb people rely on the easiest possible general solutions to anything, regardless of any flaws to those solutions.
Now we're getting a good view of the sheer number of dumb people... scary, huh?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633429</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, which planet Earth? -sextants still in u</title>
	<author>Fallen Seraph</author>
	<datestamp>1247131440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>One good solar flare and no GPS and VHF for a while. Did you realise that? Solar storms in the past have gone on for days, which is a long time to be without navigational aids. Your hurrahing for technology is misplaced.</p></div></blockquote><p>
I'm sorry, could you repeat that? I'd partially deaf to bullshit.
<br> <br>
Contrary to popular belief, it takes quite a lot to interfere with telecommunications. Not only do geomagnetic storms NOT last days (that'd be a ridiculous amount of energy output, and a days long continuous geomagnetic storm has NEVER been recorded), but severe ones powerful enough to interfere with equipment for more than a handful of minutes recur on the order of once every few decades.
<br> <br>
Severe storms, large enough to disrupt half the planet, like the Carrington Event, occur roughly every 500 years, the last one being about 150 years ago, but believe me, if one of those hit us, your GPS would be the least of your concerns. The Carrington Event reportedly lit up the sky at night when the solar wind hit the Earth's magnetosphere, causing aurora as far south as Hawaii, and disrupting telegraph communication over half the world. Nowadays, it'd cause electrical fires all over the place by overloading power lines and blocking pretty much all forms of telecommunication. And bear in mind, this, the largest geomagnetic storm ever recorded, barely lasted a single day.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>One good solar flare and no GPS and VHF for a while .
Did you realise that ?
Solar storms in the past have gone on for days , which is a long time to be without navigational aids .
Your hurrahing for technology is misplaced .
I 'm sorry , could you repeat that ?
I 'd partially deaf to bullshit .
Contrary to popular belief , it takes quite a lot to interfere with telecommunications .
Not only do geomagnetic storms NOT last days ( that 'd be a ridiculous amount of energy output , and a days long continuous geomagnetic storm has NEVER been recorded ) , but severe ones powerful enough to interfere with equipment for more than a handful of minutes recur on the order of once every few decades .
Severe storms , large enough to disrupt half the planet , like the Carrington Event , occur roughly every 500 years , the last one being about 150 years ago , but believe me , if one of those hit us , your GPS would be the least of your concerns .
The Carrington Event reportedly lit up the sky at night when the solar wind hit the Earth 's magnetosphere , causing aurora as far south as Hawaii , and disrupting telegraph communication over half the world .
Nowadays , it 'd cause electrical fires all over the place by overloading power lines and blocking pretty much all forms of telecommunication .
And bear in mind , this , the largest geomagnetic storm ever recorded , barely lasted a single day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One good solar flare and no GPS and VHF for a while.
Did you realise that?
Solar storms in the past have gone on for days, which is a long time to be without navigational aids.
Your hurrahing for technology is misplaced.
I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
I'd partially deaf to bullshit.
Contrary to popular belief, it takes quite a lot to interfere with telecommunications.
Not only do geomagnetic storms NOT last days (that'd be a ridiculous amount of energy output, and a days long continuous geomagnetic storm has NEVER been recorded), but severe ones powerful enough to interfere with equipment for more than a handful of minutes recur on the order of once every few decades.
Severe storms, large enough to disrupt half the planet, like the Carrington Event, occur roughly every 500 years, the last one being about 150 years ago, but believe me, if one of those hit us, your GPS would be the least of your concerns.
The Carrington Event reportedly lit up the sky at night when the solar wind hit the Earth's magnetosphere, causing aurora as far south as Hawaii, and disrupting telegraph communication over half the world.
Nowadays, it'd cause electrical fires all over the place by overloading power lines and blocking pretty much all forms of telecommunication.
And bear in mind, this, the largest geomagnetic storm ever recorded, barely lasted a single day.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633207</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28654355</id>
	<title>Re:I wax nostalgic about smallpox...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247217120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These articles provide balance to the manufacturers sales info which will only mention why the product is great (usually with appeals to people's emotion rather than logic or reason). They also provide balance for reviews of products that never look at the bigger picture (usually due to unmentioned commercial interests).</p><p>Something like a Tom Tom may be the best consumer sat nav on the market, but all sat navs have downsides and these are usually over looked completely in product round-ups, for example.</p><p>What I don't get is why so many people attack these non-pro new consumer gizmo articles.... it often sounds like the attacker has spent a lot on money on a product and now doesn't want to know of any possible downside.</p><p>About your sig too - when following that post it really does sound you like are unable to question the status quo in the world. In fact, you are so committed to maintain the status quo that you think it'd be OK to take another human life? Either you are a <i>x</i>EO of a major bank, or you are the definition of a mindless sheep!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These articles provide balance to the manufacturers sales info which will only mention why the product is great ( usually with appeals to people 's emotion rather than logic or reason ) .
They also provide balance for reviews of products that never look at the bigger picture ( usually due to unmentioned commercial interests ) .Something like a Tom Tom may be the best consumer sat nav on the market , but all sat navs have downsides and these are usually over looked completely in product round-ups , for example.What I do n't get is why so many people attack these non-pro new consumer gizmo articles.... it often sounds like the attacker has spent a lot on money on a product and now does n't want to know of any possible downside.About your sig too - when following that post it really does sound you like are unable to question the status quo in the world .
In fact , you are so committed to maintain the status quo that you think it 'd be OK to take another human life ?
Either you are a xEO of a major bank , or you are the definition of a mindless sheep !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These articles provide balance to the manufacturers sales info which will only mention why the product is great (usually with appeals to people's emotion rather than logic or reason).
They also provide balance for reviews of products that never look at the bigger picture (usually due to unmentioned commercial interests).Something like a Tom Tom may be the best consumer sat nav on the market, but all sat navs have downsides and these are usually over looked completely in product round-ups, for example.What I don't get is why so many people attack these non-pro new consumer gizmo articles.... it often sounds like the attacker has spent a lot on money on a product and now doesn't want to know of any possible downside.About your sig too - when following that post it really does sound you like are unable to question the status quo in the world.
In fact, you are so committed to maintain the status quo that you think it'd be OK to take another human life?
Either you are a xEO of a major bank, or you are the definition of a mindless sheep!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634889</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633425</id>
	<title>It's true!</title>
	<author>clickety6</author>
	<datestamp>1247131440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most map readers are being killed off as they struggle with the AZ when driving the car and end up ion the path of an oncoming articulated lorry.</p><p>Whereas GPS-using drivers can keep their eye son the road and survive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most map readers are being killed off as they struggle with the AZ when driving the car and end up ion the path of an oncoming articulated lorry.Whereas GPS-using drivers can keep their eye son the road and survive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most map readers are being killed off as they struggle with the AZ when driving the car and end up ion the path of an oncoming articulated lorry.Whereas GPS-using drivers can keep their eye son the road and survive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633571</id>
	<title>Geographical and cultural differences</title>
	<author>haifastudent</author>
	<datestamp>1247133240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them.</p></div><p>Living in the Middle East, I am used to the large highways that connect our cities taking us through the city. For historical reasons, that is how the roads were made. However, travelling in the US I was astonished to see that the large roads between cities pass \_by\_ the cites, not through them, or at least not in the sense that one must slow down to city speed as he goes through. Here, the roads connect our cities, but in North America the roads that were built in an era where one does not need to stop at each possible detour along the way actually go right past the cities.</p><p>In short, one does not need to be intimate with the whole path from A to B nowadays, and the technology (both GPS and even the roads themselves) reflect that. I suppose that the beginning of the trend would have been the construction of interstate highways that let the driver bypass the cities that he is not interested in, or the invention of the automobile which reduced the need to stop frequently.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them.Living in the Middle East , I am used to the large highways that connect our cities taking us through the city .
For historical reasons , that is how the roads were made .
However , travelling in the US I was astonished to see that the large roads between cities pass \ _by \ _ the cites , not through them , or at least not in the sense that one must slow down to city speed as he goes through .
Here , the roads connect our cities , but in North America the roads that were built in an era where one does not need to stop at each possible detour along the way actually go right past the cities.In short , one does not need to be intimate with the whole path from A to B nowadays , and the technology ( both GPS and even the roads themselves ) reflect that .
I suppose that the beginning of the trend would have been the construction of interstate highways that let the driver bypass the cities that he is not interested in , or the invention of the automobile which reduced the need to stop frequently .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...roads no longer lead to real places but around and through them.Living in the Middle East, I am used to the large highways that connect our cities taking us through the city.
For historical reasons, that is how the roads were made.
However, travelling in the US I was astonished to see that the large roads between cities pass \_by\_ the cites, not through them, or at least not in the sense that one must slow down to city speed as he goes through.
Here, the roads connect our cities, but in North America the roads that were built in an era where one does not need to stop at each possible detour along the way actually go right past the cities.In short, one does not need to be intimate with the whole path from A to B nowadays, and the technology (both GPS and even the roads themselves) reflect that.
I suppose that the beginning of the trend would have been the construction of interstate highways that let the driver bypass the cities that he is not interested in, or the invention of the automobile which reduced the need to stop frequently.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28647033</id>
	<title>Re:OpenStreetMap the future for local knowledge</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247218440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, but as you said yourself, really detailed paper maps like that have taken centuries to compile. Digital maps are only a few years old. Given time, I suspect the digital versions will catch up to (and probably surpass, for that matter) the paper ones in levels of detail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , but as you said yourself , really detailed paper maps like that have taken centuries to compile .
Digital maps are only a few years old .
Given time , I suspect the digital versions will catch up to ( and probably surpass , for that matter ) the paper ones in levels of detail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, but as you said yourself, really detailed paper maps like that have taken centuries to compile.
Digital maps are only a few years old.
Given time, I suspect the digital versions will catch up to (and probably surpass, for that matter) the paper ones in levels of detail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633743</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634975</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>mvdwege</author>
	<datestamp>1247147100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not even a recent TomTom is immune to failure. I live close to a small theater run by the local major production company for try-outs and experimental theater (basically an incubator), and we get plenty of visitors who are totally lost because TomTom keeps referring them to the main road instead of the parallel road 10 meters to the side.</p><p>Of course, had they turned off the default 3D look and switched to map view, they might have seen that TomTom's 'Turn left here' meant moving onto the parallel road first, but that goes back to the article's contention: that local knowledge (even, in this case, gained on the spot) is being eradicated by a slavish devotion to the GPS.</p><p>
Mart</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not even a recent TomTom is immune to failure .
I live close to a small theater run by the local major production company for try-outs and experimental theater ( basically an incubator ) , and we get plenty of visitors who are totally lost because TomTom keeps referring them to the main road instead of the parallel road 10 meters to the side.Of course , had they turned off the default 3D look and switched to map view , they might have seen that TomTom 's 'Turn left here ' meant moving onto the parallel road first , but that goes back to the article 's contention : that local knowledge ( even , in this case , gained on the spot ) is being eradicated by a slavish devotion to the GPS .
Mart</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not even a recent TomTom is immune to failure.
I live close to a small theater run by the local major production company for try-outs and experimental theater (basically an incubator), and we get plenty of visitors who are totally lost because TomTom keeps referring them to the main road instead of the parallel road 10 meters to the side.Of course, had they turned off the default 3D look and switched to map view, they might have seen that TomTom's 'Turn left here' meant moving onto the parallel road first, but that goes back to the article's contention: that local knowledge (even, in this case, gained on the spot) is being eradicated by a slavish devotion to the GPS.
Mart</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633911</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28648537</id>
	<title>Re:Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>RockDoctor</author>
	<datestamp>1247235180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I can imagine a scene in a future movie where some old coot gives the protagonist a ride without nav-sat through the city - taking shortcuts, avoiding lights, dodging jams, and revealing hitherto unseen, decaying, abandoned-looking streets. The protagonist gets to his destination in half the normal time, but still thinks the old man is nutty for his luddite refusal to do things the easy way.</p></div></blockquote><p>I can imagine a scene in some future move where the Bad Guys (wearing their black hats), get into their car and press the "follow get-away route" button, and the car drives away<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... a few seconds later the cops come around the corner (at 20 miles per hour, becasue it's on a child-friendly street), see the get-away car getting away and get onto the phone to head office. Then they drive to the back door of the police station in time to greet the Bad Guys who have been driven there by their car.</p><p>Not a very exciting plot, is it?</p><p>Oh, BTW, the Bad Guys didn't get out of the car because the police had locked them in, remotely. And they certainly weren't going to try to get away on foot, or in a sat-nav-free car because there are no footpaths and no "manual" cars any more.</p><p>Yeah, it's SF. But it's credible SF. Plausible within our lifetimes. In the unlikely event of "everyone getting their flying car", it'll be practically unavoidable - if people can't handle corners, lane changes and parking on a 2D surface, then they're going to kill millions trying to drive in 3D. Air traffic control is hard enough with a dozen or two planes around an airport ; imagine thousands.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can imagine a scene in a future movie where some old coot gives the protagonist a ride without nav-sat through the city - taking shortcuts , avoiding lights , dodging jams , and revealing hitherto unseen , decaying , abandoned-looking streets .
The protagonist gets to his destination in half the normal time , but still thinks the old man is nutty for his luddite refusal to do things the easy way.I can imagine a scene in some future move where the Bad Guys ( wearing their black hats ) , get into their car and press the " follow get-away route " button , and the car drives away ... a few seconds later the cops come around the corner ( at 20 miles per hour , becasue it 's on a child-friendly street ) , see the get-away car getting away and get onto the phone to head office .
Then they drive to the back door of the police station in time to greet the Bad Guys who have been driven there by their car.Not a very exciting plot , is it ? Oh , BTW , the Bad Guys did n't get out of the car because the police had locked them in , remotely .
And they certainly were n't going to try to get away on foot , or in a sat-nav-free car because there are no footpaths and no " manual " cars any more.Yeah , it 's SF .
But it 's credible SF .
Plausible within our lifetimes .
In the unlikely event of " everyone getting their flying car " , it 'll be practically unavoidable - if people ca n't handle corners , lane changes and parking on a 2D surface , then they 're going to kill millions trying to drive in 3D .
Air traffic control is hard enough with a dozen or two planes around an airport ; imagine thousands .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can imagine a scene in a future movie where some old coot gives the protagonist a ride without nav-sat through the city - taking shortcuts, avoiding lights, dodging jams, and revealing hitherto unseen, decaying, abandoned-looking streets.
The protagonist gets to his destination in half the normal time, but still thinks the old man is nutty for his luddite refusal to do things the easy way.I can imagine a scene in some future move where the Bad Guys (wearing their black hats), get into their car and press the "follow get-away route" button, and the car drives away ... a few seconds later the cops come around the corner (at 20 miles per hour, becasue it's on a child-friendly street), see the get-away car getting away and get onto the phone to head office.
Then they drive to the back door of the police station in time to greet the Bad Guys who have been driven there by their car.Not a very exciting plot, is it?Oh, BTW, the Bad Guys didn't get out of the car because the police had locked them in, remotely.
And they certainly weren't going to try to get away on foot, or in a sat-nav-free car because there are no footpaths and no "manual" cars any more.Yeah, it's SF.
But it's credible SF.
Plausible within our lifetimes.
In the unlikely event of "everyone getting their flying car", it'll be practically unavoidable - if people can't handle corners, lane changes and parking on a 2D surface, then they're going to kill millions trying to drive in 3D.
Air traffic control is hard enough with a dozen or two planes around an airport ; imagine thousands.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634985</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636065</id>
	<title>Re:Laws Of Technology.....</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1247152500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>2) Learn how to spell, if you have spell-check?</i></p><p>Ewe muss bee knew hear.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>2 ) Learn how to spell , if you have spell-check ? Ewe muss bee knew hear .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>2) Learn how to spell, if you have spell-check?Ewe muss bee knew hear.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638965</id>
	<title>Here, I'll fix that for you:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247164020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With [online and GPS] Maps, . . . for example are making it possible to both know exactly where you are, but also where everything <strong>they are interested in advertising </strong>round about you is, how to get to it and making it possible to share it instantly with anyone else <strong>who might generate some revenue</strong>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With [ online and GPS ] Maps , .
. .
for example are making it possible to both know exactly where you are , but also where everything they are interested in advertising round about you is , how to get to it and making it possible to share it instantly with anyone else who might generate some revenue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With [online and GPS] Maps, .
. .
for example are making it possible to both know exactly where you are, but also where everything they are interested in advertising round about you is, how to get to it and making it possible to share it instantly with anyone else who might generate some revenue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634985</id>
	<title>Re:Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247147220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder how many more stories like this we'll see once sat-nav becomes something that almost everyone uses. For now, most people who have it don't have it on for most of their trips, but many people who "grow up with it" eventually will. This means that the magic voice will have incredible power in shaping urban traffic patterns. Some roads will be jammed while others will be empty, and all because of sat-nav. I wonder if cities will start adapting to sat-nav by widening the streets that (say) Gramin likes to recommend.</p><p>

I can imagine a scene in a future movie where some old coot gives the protagonist a ride <i>without nav-sat</i> through the city - taking shortcuts, avoiding lights, dodging jams, and revealing hitherto unseen, decaying, abandoned-looking streets. The protagonist gets to his destination in half the normal time, but still thinks the old man is nutty for his luddite refusal to do things the easy way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder how many more stories like this we 'll see once sat-nav becomes something that almost everyone uses .
For now , most people who have it do n't have it on for most of their trips , but many people who " grow up with it " eventually will .
This means that the magic voice will have incredible power in shaping urban traffic patterns .
Some roads will be jammed while others will be empty , and all because of sat-nav .
I wonder if cities will start adapting to sat-nav by widening the streets that ( say ) Gramin likes to recommend .
I can imagine a scene in a future movie where some old coot gives the protagonist a ride without nav-sat through the city - taking shortcuts , avoiding lights , dodging jams , and revealing hitherto unseen , decaying , abandoned-looking streets .
The protagonist gets to his destination in half the normal time , but still thinks the old man is nutty for his luddite refusal to do things the easy way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder how many more stories like this we'll see once sat-nav becomes something that almost everyone uses.
For now, most people who have it don't have it on for most of their trips, but many people who "grow up with it" eventually will.
This means that the magic voice will have incredible power in shaping urban traffic patterns.
Some roads will be jammed while others will be empty, and all because of sat-nav.
I wonder if cities will start adapting to sat-nav by widening the streets that (say) Gramin likes to recommend.
I can imagine a scene in a future movie where some old coot gives the protagonist a ride without nav-sat through the city - taking shortcuts, avoiding lights, dodging jams, and revealing hitherto unseen, decaying, abandoned-looking streets.
The protagonist gets to his destination in half the normal time, but still thinks the old man is nutty for his luddite refusal to do things the easy way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634159</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638213</id>
	<title>Re:Real human directions</title>
	<author>Reziac</author>
	<datestamp>1247161020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you are right about that, having observed the same myself.</p><p>Me, I do much better with a map than with directions (I don't get lost, cuz I carry a vast set of maps in my head and always know about where I am on the "overhead projection" view). Just show me the map and I'll figure it out. But tell me turn left where? oh, you meant my OTHER left!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you are right about that , having observed the same myself.Me , I do much better with a map than with directions ( I do n't get lost , cuz I carry a vast set of maps in my head and always know about where I am on the " overhead projection " view ) .
Just show me the map and I 'll figure it out .
But tell me turn left where ?
oh , you meant my OTHER left !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you are right about that, having observed the same myself.Me, I do much better with a map than with directions (I don't get lost, cuz I carry a vast set of maps in my head and always know about where I am on the "overhead projection" view).
Just show me the map and I'll figure it out.
But tell me turn left where?
oh, you meant my OTHER left!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633277</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633501</id>
	<title>Re:Map on TomTom</title>
	<author>Valdrax</author>
	<datestamp>1247132460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because sometimes, "turn left at Wimbley Ave" isn't very helpful when you don't know which of the next two roads is Wimbley Ave because you can't look for / read the street signs AND keep your eyes on the road.  I can think of many, MANY times when only looking at my GPS's map let me know which road I was supposed to turn on in a new and unfamiliar area.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because sometimes , " turn left at Wimbley Ave " is n't very helpful when you do n't know which of the next two roads is Wimbley Ave because you ca n't look for / read the street signs AND keep your eyes on the road .
I can think of many , MANY times when only looking at my GPS 's map let me know which road I was supposed to turn on in a new and unfamiliar area .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because sometimes, "turn left at Wimbley Ave" isn't very helpful when you don't know which of the next two roads is Wimbley Ave because you can't look for / read the street signs AND keep your eyes on the road.
I can think of many, MANY times when only looking at my GPS's map let me know which road I was supposed to turn on in a new and unfamiliar area.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633165</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633435</id>
	<title>Doubt it...</title>
	<author>John Pfeiffer</author>
	<datestamp>1247131500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would rather posit that the constant (in)breeding of stupid people is 'destroying local knowledge'.  I was brought up before (Not by much) the internet and 'wikipedia as a verb', and at least in my case easy access to information SUPPLEMENTS what I know, and doesn't make me RELIANT on such technology.  Of course, as society gets dumber and lazier as a whole, I have little doubt that instant access to information WILL replace actually having to know and remember stuff...  But that's not the fault of the technology, it's the fault of modern civilization's end-run around natural selection.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would rather posit that the constant ( in ) breeding of stupid people is 'destroying local knowledge' .
I was brought up before ( Not by much ) the internet and 'wikipedia as a verb ' , and at least in my case easy access to information SUPPLEMENTS what I know , and does n't make me RELIANT on such technology .
Of course , as society gets dumber and lazier as a whole , I have little doubt that instant access to information WILL replace actually having to know and remember stuff... But that 's not the fault of the technology , it 's the fault of modern civilization 's end-run around natural selection .
: P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would rather posit that the constant (in)breeding of stupid people is 'destroying local knowledge'.
I was brought up before (Not by much) the internet and 'wikipedia as a verb', and at least in my case easy access to information SUPPLEMENTS what I know, and doesn't make me RELIANT on such technology.
Of course, as society gets dumber and lazier as a whole, I have little doubt that instant access to information WILL replace actually having to know and remember stuff...  But that's not the fault of the technology, it's the fault of modern civilization's end-run around natural selection.
:P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637417</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247157360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> But I wouldn't call any parent that got their kids to read a lot a bad one, would you?</p> </div><p>Elitist bastards.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But I would n't call any parent that got their kids to read a lot a bad one , would you ?
Elitist bastards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> But I wouldn't call any parent that got their kids to read a lot a bad one, would you?
Elitist bastards.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633489</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634471</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>dargaud</author>
	<datestamp>1247142480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>sat-nav isn't vital for travel, but then nor were road signs if you have a map</p></div><p>I live in a part of Europe that still have plenty of crosses at each road/trail crossing. They all have different shapes and makes. I always wondered what indications were like at the time before maps and before most people could read. Probably something like: "Straigth after the old tall wooden cross with a metal base. Walk 2 hours. Then right at the cast iron cross... etc". Maybe even a succession of drawings. Do such 'cross-nav' descriptions still exist ?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>sat-nav is n't vital for travel , but then nor were road signs if you have a mapI live in a part of Europe that still have plenty of crosses at each road/trail crossing .
They all have different shapes and makes .
I always wondered what indications were like at the time before maps and before most people could read .
Probably something like : " Straigth after the old tall wooden cross with a metal base .
Walk 2 hours .
Then right at the cast iron cross... etc " . Maybe even a succession of drawings .
Do such 'cross-nav ' descriptions still exist ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sat-nav isn't vital for travel, but then nor were road signs if you have a mapI live in a part of Europe that still have plenty of crosses at each road/trail crossing.
They all have different shapes and makes.
I always wondered what indications were like at the time before maps and before most people could read.
Probably something like: "Straigth after the old tall wooden cross with a metal base.
Walk 2 hours.
Then right at the cast iron cross... etc". Maybe even a succession of drawings.
Do such 'cross-nav' descriptions still exist ?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633297</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636901</id>
	<title>Stubborn or bossy?</title>
	<author>CmdrPorno</author>
	<datestamp>1247155320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know about most men, but I appreciate that the satnav woman never gets irritated or upset no matter how many wrong turns I make.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about most men , but I appreciate that the satnav woman never gets irritated or upset no matter how many wrong turns I make .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about most men, but I appreciate that the satnav woman never gets irritated or upset no matter how many wrong turns I make.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638635</id>
	<title>Re:Is Sat-Nav Destroying Local Knowledge?</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1247162700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Looks like comedy is another skill consigned to the scrapyard of history.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Looks like comedy is another skill consigned to the scrapyard of history .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looks like comedy is another skill consigned to the scrapyard of history.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634863</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634333</id>
	<title>YMMV</title>
	<author>SpaghettiPattern</author>
	<datestamp>1247140500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I worked for Philips back in the 90ies where I was a developer in the first car navigation systems. Had a good time there and I like the technology behind navigation systems. Route planning, position determination (GSP, dead reckoning, compass), database, on-line updates, voice alerts, GUI, etc...<br> <br>

However, I take pride in NOT using car navigation. I study maps to get where I want and then I leave these maps home. I see situations where I'm lost as oportunities to get to know the surroundings better.<br> <br>

A couple of weeks ago I planned a trip of 2400 km (1500 miles.) Needles to say the trip did not go as planned. West from Paris there was a huge traffic jam towards the coast. So I stopped at a service station, tried to reroute but failed.<br>
Then from Calais to my destination in Dartford near London everything went fine and I found my destination instantly.<br>
On my way back I wanted to avoid Paris and decided to drive through Belgium, a route I did consider only as an unlikely alternative. Sure enough, east from Brussels, I too the wrong way. Instead of driving toward Luxembourg, I was driving towards Li&#195;ge. I deduced this from the position of the sun. At a service station, using a crappy map I found on the shelves, I rerouted. The road I took was incredibly beautiful and well worth the extra time.<br>
After Luxembourg everything went fine through France and Germany and I home only a few hours later than expected.<br> <br>

My brother in law -very intelligent man, PhD, literate, etc...- on the other hand, has no sense of direction at all. It seems there's no therapy or cure for that. He would always use a navigation system, probably even to move within the city he lived in for 50 years.<br> <br>

My brains won't degrade by the presence of navigation systems and neither would my brother in law's.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I worked for Philips back in the 90ies where I was a developer in the first car navigation systems .
Had a good time there and I like the technology behind navigation systems .
Route planning , position determination ( GSP , dead reckoning , compass ) , database , on-line updates , voice alerts , GUI , etc.. . However , I take pride in NOT using car navigation .
I study maps to get where I want and then I leave these maps home .
I see situations where I 'm lost as oportunities to get to know the surroundings better .
A couple of weeks ago I planned a trip of 2400 km ( 1500 miles .
) Needles to say the trip did not go as planned .
West from Paris there was a huge traffic jam towards the coast .
So I stopped at a service station , tried to reroute but failed .
Then from Calais to my destination in Dartford near London everything went fine and I found my destination instantly .
On my way back I wanted to avoid Paris and decided to drive through Belgium , a route I did consider only as an unlikely alternative .
Sure enough , east from Brussels , I too the wrong way .
Instead of driving toward Luxembourg , I was driving towards Li   ge .
I deduced this from the position of the sun .
At a service station , using a crappy map I found on the shelves , I rerouted .
The road I took was incredibly beautiful and well worth the extra time .
After Luxembourg everything went fine through France and Germany and I home only a few hours later than expected .
My brother in law -very intelligent man , PhD , literate , etc...- on the other hand , has no sense of direction at all .
It seems there 's no therapy or cure for that .
He would always use a navigation system , probably even to move within the city he lived in for 50 years .
My brains wo n't degrade by the presence of navigation systems and neither would my brother in law 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worked for Philips back in the 90ies where I was a developer in the first car navigation systems.
Had a good time there and I like the technology behind navigation systems.
Route planning, position determination (GSP, dead reckoning, compass), database, on-line updates, voice alerts, GUI, etc... 

However, I take pride in NOT using car navigation.
I study maps to get where I want and then I leave these maps home.
I see situations where I'm lost as oportunities to get to know the surroundings better.
A couple of weeks ago I planned a trip of 2400 km (1500 miles.
) Needles to say the trip did not go as planned.
West from Paris there was a huge traffic jam towards the coast.
So I stopped at a service station, tried to reroute but failed.
Then from Calais to my destination in Dartford near London everything went fine and I found my destination instantly.
On my way back I wanted to avoid Paris and decided to drive through Belgium, a route I did consider only as an unlikely alternative.
Sure enough, east from Brussels, I too the wrong way.
Instead of driving toward Luxembourg, I was driving towards LiÃge.
I deduced this from the position of the sun.
At a service station, using a crappy map I found on the shelves, I rerouted.
The road I took was incredibly beautiful and well worth the extra time.
After Luxembourg everything went fine through France and Germany and I home only a few hours later than expected.
My brother in law -very intelligent man, PhD, literate, etc...- on the other hand, has no sense of direction at all.
It seems there's no therapy or cure for that.
He would always use a navigation system, probably even to move within the city he lived in for 50 years.
My brains won't degrade by the presence of navigation systems and neither would my brother in law's.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634571</id>
	<title>Editorial Writers Getting Paid</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247143500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gee, I need to get paid but today is a slow news day - what can I write about?  I know, I'll manufacture a problem to make people feel sentimental, guilty and villify a piece of technology that is on its own not biased toward good or evil.</p><p>--</p><p>You know, when I use a GPS eventually I arrive at a destination - then I look around and (mostly) say - "Gee this is a pretty nifty place" - if anything GPS expands my ability to view the real world - not lessens it.  There are lots of things I feel sentimental about from the past - but then I realize that it's more important to just go out and appreciate what you have in life during the present moment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gee , I need to get paid but today is a slow news day - what can I write about ?
I know , I 'll manufacture a problem to make people feel sentimental , guilty and villify a piece of technology that is on its own not biased toward good or evil.--You know , when I use a GPS eventually I arrive at a destination - then I look around and ( mostly ) say - " Gee this is a pretty nifty place " - if anything GPS expands my ability to view the real world - not lessens it .
There are lots of things I feel sentimental about from the past - but then I realize that it 's more important to just go out and appreciate what you have in life during the present moment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gee, I need to get paid but today is a slow news day - what can I write about?
I know, I'll manufacture a problem to make people feel sentimental, guilty and villify a piece of technology that is on its own not biased toward good or evil.--You know, when I use a GPS eventually I arrive at a destination - then I look around and (mostly) say - "Gee this is a pretty nifty place" - if anything GPS expands my ability to view the real world - not lessens it.
There are lots of things I feel sentimental about from the past - but then I realize that it's more important to just go out and appreciate what you have in life during the present moment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638393</id>
	<title>Re:Meh. It's local knowledge for *everyone*</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247161680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yup.  A local shortcut near an interstate was used by nobody except locals here.  Now, lots of GPS users take the short-cut.</p><p>What is missed, however, is the stopping to ask directions, and interactions with the locals.</p><p>Granted, most guys avoided this like the plague, and "found" new longer routes as a result.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yup .
A local shortcut near an interstate was used by nobody except locals here .
Now , lots of GPS users take the short-cut.What is missed , however , is the stopping to ask directions , and interactions with the locals.Granted , most guys avoided this like the plague , and " found " new longer routes as a result .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yup.
A local shortcut near an interstate was used by nobody except locals here.
Now, lots of GPS users take the short-cut.What is missed, however, is the stopping to ask directions, and interactions with the locals.Granted, most guys avoided this like the plague, and "found" new longer routes as a result.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634837</id>
	<title>Re:Au contraire</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247146140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I find that having a GPS makes it easier to learn the local streets, since it shows me where I am on the map at all times. Otherwise I have to spend all my time trying to figure our what that tiny street sign says and I miss everything else.</p></div><p>When I moved to Raleigh, NC I was completely spoiled by the fact that most of the "stop light ahead" warning signs all had another sign below them naming the street that was being intersected. No more squinting at a street sign as I pass through the intersection.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I find that having a GPS makes it easier to learn the local streets , since it shows me where I am on the map at all times .
Otherwise I have to spend all my time trying to figure our what that tiny street sign says and I miss everything else.When I moved to Raleigh , NC I was completely spoiled by the fact that most of the " stop light ahead " warning signs all had another sign below them naming the street that was being intersected .
No more squinting at a street sign as I pass through the intersection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find that having a GPS makes it easier to learn the local streets, since it shows me where I am on the map at all times.
Otherwise I have to spend all my time trying to figure our what that tiny street sign says and I miss everything else.When I moved to Raleigh, NC I was completely spoiled by the fact that most of the "stop light ahead" warning signs all had another sign below them naming the street that was being intersected.
No more squinting at a street sign as I pass through the intersection.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633307</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28639763</id>
	<title>Re:Laws Of Technology.....</title>
	<author>Coward Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247167020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you've learned to survive in the wild after being left without anything on your person you'll have earned the right to lecture society about its dependence on technology.<br>You are so accustomed to "old" technology (like textiles, knives, clean plentiful water, food everywhere) that you take it for granted and don't even realize it. You'd be dead in a week without all these things you take for granted.Yet somehow this new technology is harmful and turning us to vegetables.<br>You are exhibiting classic reactionary ludditism.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you 've learned to survive in the wild after being left without anything on your person you 'll have earned the right to lecture society about its dependence on technology.You are so accustomed to " old " technology ( like textiles , knives , clean plentiful water , food everywhere ) that you take it for granted and do n't even realize it .
You 'd be dead in a week without all these things you take for granted.Yet somehow this new technology is harmful and turning us to vegetables.You are exhibiting classic reactionary ludditism .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you've learned to survive in the wild after being left without anything on your person you'll have earned the right to lecture society about its dependence on technology.You are so accustomed to "old" technology (like textiles, knives, clean plentiful water, food everywhere) that you take it for granted and don't even realize it.
You'd be dead in a week without all these things you take for granted.Yet somehow this new technology is harmful and turning us to vegetables.You are exhibiting classic reactionary ludditism.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638919</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247163900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's what passengers are for, to be the directions/information bitch, and to hold the food when you get it out of the drive through window until it's distributed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's what passengers are for , to be the directions/information bitch , and to hold the food when you get it out of the drive through window until it 's distributed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's what passengers are for, to be the directions/information bitch, and to hold the food when you get it out of the drive through window until it's distributed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633271</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28646045</id>
	<title>Stereotypes!</title>
	<author>Malibee</author>
	<datestamp>1247161560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am a man. I have a TomTom with a female guide voice, and I have no qualms at following its instructions (excepting the occasional wild, obvious inaccuracy). I read instruction manuals where appropriate, and use my skills and knowledge when applicable.</p><p>In my opinion, the stereotypical male who refuses to ask for directions or read instructions hasn't actually existed for some time, if at all. Give it a rest already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a man .
I have a TomTom with a female guide voice , and I have no qualms at following its instructions ( excepting the occasional wild , obvious inaccuracy ) .
I read instruction manuals where appropriate , and use my skills and knowledge when applicable.In my opinion , the stereotypical male who refuses to ask for directions or read instructions has n't actually existed for some time , if at all .
Give it a rest already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a man.
I have a TomTom with a female guide voice, and I have no qualms at following its instructions (excepting the occasional wild, obvious inaccuracy).
I read instruction manuals where appropriate, and use my skills and knowledge when applicable.In my opinion, the stereotypical male who refuses to ask for directions or read instructions hasn't actually existed for some time, if at all.
Give it a rest already.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637255</id>
	<title>Re:OpenStreetMap the future for local knowledge</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247156580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>True, but the GPS frees the driver and navigator to enjoy the scenery.  We drove around Tuscany on "enjoy mode" not "where the hell are we" mode or "arguing about who got us lost" mode.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True , but the GPS frees the driver and navigator to enjoy the scenery .
We drove around Tuscany on " enjoy mode " not " where the hell are we " mode or " arguing about who got us lost " mode .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True, but the GPS frees the driver and navigator to enjoy the scenery.
We drove around Tuscany on "enjoy mode" not "where the hell are we" mode or "arguing about who got us lost" mode.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633743</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28644581</id>
	<title>Re:Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>R3d M3rcury</author>
	<datestamp>1247144940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, part of the problem is that Satellite Navigation is good for cars and is written for them.  It is not written for other sized vehicles.  Usually, trucking companies have custom software to plan routes with.</p><p>My roomate used to drive big-rig trucks.  Her first time out, she partnered with a former IT guy who brought his laptop with a GPS card and a satellite navigation program.  When they were going through Atlanta, my roomate was sleeping in the back while he was driving.  She noticed that he seemed to be starting and stopping alot and wondered what the hell was going on.  When she stepped into the cockpit, she found that her partner had left the highway and was on surface streets because the navigation program had told him that it was shorter.</p><p>So here he is trying to maneuver this 18-wheeler through Atlanta traffic on a 6 lane street.  It turned into four lanes.  Then into 2.  Residential streets.  They chugged along until they eventually got back to the freeway (my roomate was thankful that there were no low bridges though they did scrape up a few trees).  He figured that his navigation program was better than the one that the trucking company had, which had told him to stay on the freeway.  After all, the shorter route would save gas, right?</p><p>These delivery guys are trying to save money by using a navigation program for cars rather than the, usually more expensive, navigation program for trucks.</p><p>(As an aside, I still want try to biking on I-405 and, when the cops arrest me, tell them "But Google Maps said it would be okay!")</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , part of the problem is that Satellite Navigation is good for cars and is written for them .
It is not written for other sized vehicles .
Usually , trucking companies have custom software to plan routes with.My roomate used to drive big-rig trucks .
Her first time out , she partnered with a former IT guy who brought his laptop with a GPS card and a satellite navigation program .
When they were going through Atlanta , my roomate was sleeping in the back while he was driving .
She noticed that he seemed to be starting and stopping alot and wondered what the hell was going on .
When she stepped into the cockpit , she found that her partner had left the highway and was on surface streets because the navigation program had told him that it was shorter.So here he is trying to maneuver this 18-wheeler through Atlanta traffic on a 6 lane street .
It turned into four lanes .
Then into 2 .
Residential streets .
They chugged along until they eventually got back to the freeway ( my roomate was thankful that there were no low bridges though they did scrape up a few trees ) .
He figured that his navigation program was better than the one that the trucking company had , which had told him to stay on the freeway .
After all , the shorter route would save gas , right ? These delivery guys are trying to save money by using a navigation program for cars rather than the , usually more expensive , navigation program for trucks .
( As an aside , I still want try to biking on I-405 and , when the cops arrest me , tell them " But Google Maps said it would be okay !
" )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, part of the problem is that Satellite Navigation is good for cars and is written for them.
It is not written for other sized vehicles.
Usually, trucking companies have custom software to plan routes with.My roomate used to drive big-rig trucks.
Her first time out, she partnered with a former IT guy who brought his laptop with a GPS card and a satellite navigation program.
When they were going through Atlanta, my roomate was sleeping in the back while he was driving.
She noticed that he seemed to be starting and stopping alot and wondered what the hell was going on.
When she stepped into the cockpit, she found that her partner had left the highway and was on surface streets because the navigation program had told him that it was shorter.So here he is trying to maneuver this 18-wheeler through Atlanta traffic on a 6 lane street.
It turned into four lanes.
Then into 2.
Residential streets.
They chugged along until they eventually got back to the freeway (my roomate was thankful that there were no low bridges though they did scrape up a few trees).
He figured that his navigation program was better than the one that the trucking company had, which had told him to stay on the freeway.
After all, the shorter route would save gas, right?These delivery guys are trying to save money by using a navigation program for cars rather than the, usually more expensive, navigation program for trucks.
(As an aside, I still want try to biking on I-405 and, when the cops arrest me, tell them "But Google Maps said it would be okay!
")</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634159</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633963</id>
	<title>Re:Road signs</title>
	<author>oetkb</author>
	<datestamp>1247136780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So I bought the Tom Tom European sat-nav a while back and played with it much to the chagrin of my wife, who is one of those really bizarre people that seems to have sat-nav built into their brains. Seriously freaks me out at times, she can go into a totally new location and seem to have a detailed map of the place in her head in just a few seconds. She looked down her nose at Tom Tom and derided most of its route choices. I think I've become infected because I've sort of stuffed the thing back in the glove box and not touched it much. I used it on a couple of trips and have to say I wasn't blown away. Sure the technology is impressive and its quite fun to watch the little dot that's you driving along the motorway (until you rear-end something, then the novelty fades somewhat) but the choices it makes aren't very well informed. I'm glad I bought the thing, it's useful to have, but in a peculiar way I sometimes find it devalues the journey - and no, I can't explain that one at all!</htmltext>
<tokenext>So I bought the Tom Tom European sat-nav a while back and played with it much to the chagrin of my wife , who is one of those really bizarre people that seems to have sat-nav built into their brains .
Seriously freaks me out at times , she can go into a totally new location and seem to have a detailed map of the place in her head in just a few seconds .
She looked down her nose at Tom Tom and derided most of its route choices .
I think I 've become infected because I 've sort of stuffed the thing back in the glove box and not touched it much .
I used it on a couple of trips and have to say I was n't blown away .
Sure the technology is impressive and its quite fun to watch the little dot that 's you driving along the motorway ( until you rear-end something , then the novelty fades somewhat ) but the choices it makes are n't very well informed .
I 'm glad I bought the thing , it 's useful to have , but in a peculiar way I sometimes find it devalues the journey - and no , I ca n't explain that one at all !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So I bought the Tom Tom European sat-nav a while back and played with it much to the chagrin of my wife, who is one of those really bizarre people that seems to have sat-nav built into their brains.
Seriously freaks me out at times, she can go into a totally new location and seem to have a detailed map of the place in her head in just a few seconds.
She looked down her nose at Tom Tom and derided most of its route choices.
I think I've become infected because I've sort of stuffed the thing back in the glove box and not touched it much.
I used it on a couple of trips and have to say I wasn't blown away.
Sure the technology is impressive and its quite fun to watch the little dot that's you driving along the motorway (until you rear-end something, then the novelty fades somewhat) but the choices it makes aren't very well informed.
I'm glad I bought the thing, it's useful to have, but in a peculiar way I sometimes find it devalues the journey - and no, I can't explain that one at all!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633297</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634433</id>
	<title>In other news</title>
	<author>hansoloaf</author>
	<datestamp>1247141940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>In 10 B.C., one Josephus Moranivus wrote on papyrus paper bemoaning the fact drawn maps destroys the ability to navigate by dead-reckoning.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In 10 B.C. , one Josephus Moranivus wrote on papyrus paper bemoaning the fact drawn maps destroys the ability to navigate by dead-reckoning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In 10 B.C., one Josephus Moranivus wrote on papyrus paper bemoaning the fact drawn maps destroys the ability to navigate by dead-reckoning.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633631</id>
	<title>Worst. Directions. Ever.</title>
	<author>lewko</author>
	<datestamp>1247133780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The two worst sets of directions I've ever received, thanks entirely to "local knowledge" (and my lack of it) were in country towns of New South Wales, Australia.</p><p>1) "Drive straight along this road, and turn left about two miles before the traffic lights".</p><p>I happily drove off, until I got to the traffic lights, whereupon I did a U-turn and drove back two miles, cursing.</p><p>2) "You can't miss it. Go along this highway, until you get to where the school used to be and then turn left".</p><p>Apparently everyone in the town knows that the shopping centre used to be a school. I wasn't from the town...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The two worst sets of directions I 've ever received , thanks entirely to " local knowledge " ( and my lack of it ) were in country towns of New South Wales , Australia.1 ) " Drive straight along this road , and turn left about two miles before the traffic lights " .I happily drove off , until I got to the traffic lights , whereupon I did a U-turn and drove back two miles , cursing.2 ) " You ca n't miss it .
Go along this highway , until you get to where the school used to be and then turn left " .Apparently everyone in the town knows that the shopping centre used to be a school .
I was n't from the town.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The two worst sets of directions I've ever received, thanks entirely to "local knowledge" (and my lack of it) were in country towns of New South Wales, Australia.1) "Drive straight along this road, and turn left about two miles before the traffic lights".I happily drove off, until I got to the traffic lights, whereupon I did a U-turn and drove back two miles, cursing.2) "You can't miss it.
Go along this highway, until you get to where the school used to be and then turn left".Apparently everyone in the town knows that the shopping centre used to be a school.
I wasn't from the town...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634751</id>
	<title>GPS isn't, but it is happening</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247145360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know how to read a map just fine.  I used to drive all over the place with nothing but a map.  Drove halfway across the country...  All through Canada...</p><p>But I still got a GPS.  A GPS will show points of interest, that a map won't.  And it can announce when my next turn is coming up, instead of me trying to glance back and forth between a map and the road.</p><p>I still carry a road atlas everywhere I go.  And I've got an assortment of maps of more local areas and bigger cities I might actually wind up in.  But they're generally relegated to the trunk these days, and only come out once in a while.</p><p>GPS isn't the problem..  The problem is that people don't get out, don't explore, don't learn the area around them.</p><p>Used to be that if you were lost you could walk into pretty much any gas station and get halfway-decent directions.  Used to be pretty much any random denizen of a town would be able to point you towards the highway, or a restaurant, or a hotel, or a school, or whatever.  That is no longer true.</p><p>We've got a new employee who grew up in this town.  Lived here his whole life, except for four years of college elsewhere.  I grew up 1,500 miles away from here and have only lived here for the last 10 years or so.  I know more about the local area than he does.  He didn't know where the civic center was.  He didn't know where one of the schools was.  We generally have to give him very specific directions when he goes out on a call.</p><p>The key problem, as I see it, is that folks just don't get out of their house anymore.  And if they do, it's a simple trip from point A to point B, usually with directions from mapquest or a GPS routing them there.</p><p>Folks don't wander the streets.  Folks don't pay attention to the scenery around them.  Folks don't have a feeling for the community they live in.</p><p>There's "the inside of my house" and "everywhere else."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know how to read a map just fine .
I used to drive all over the place with nothing but a map .
Drove halfway across the country... All through Canada...But I still got a GPS .
A GPS will show points of interest , that a map wo n't .
And it can announce when my next turn is coming up , instead of me trying to glance back and forth between a map and the road.I still carry a road atlas everywhere I go .
And I 've got an assortment of maps of more local areas and bigger cities I might actually wind up in .
But they 're generally relegated to the trunk these days , and only come out once in a while.GPS is n't the problem.. The problem is that people do n't get out , do n't explore , do n't learn the area around them.Used to be that if you were lost you could walk into pretty much any gas station and get halfway-decent directions .
Used to be pretty much any random denizen of a town would be able to point you towards the highway , or a restaurant , or a hotel , or a school , or whatever .
That is no longer true.We 've got a new employee who grew up in this town .
Lived here his whole life , except for four years of college elsewhere .
I grew up 1,500 miles away from here and have only lived here for the last 10 years or so .
I know more about the local area than he does .
He did n't know where the civic center was .
He did n't know where one of the schools was .
We generally have to give him very specific directions when he goes out on a call.The key problem , as I see it , is that folks just do n't get out of their house anymore .
And if they do , it 's a simple trip from point A to point B , usually with directions from mapquest or a GPS routing them there.Folks do n't wander the streets .
Folks do n't pay attention to the scenery around them .
Folks do n't have a feeling for the community they live in.There 's " the inside of my house " and " everywhere else .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know how to read a map just fine.
I used to drive all over the place with nothing but a map.
Drove halfway across the country...  All through Canada...But I still got a GPS.
A GPS will show points of interest, that a map won't.
And it can announce when my next turn is coming up, instead of me trying to glance back and forth between a map and the road.I still carry a road atlas everywhere I go.
And I've got an assortment of maps of more local areas and bigger cities I might actually wind up in.
But they're generally relegated to the trunk these days, and only come out once in a while.GPS isn't the problem..  The problem is that people don't get out, don't explore, don't learn the area around them.Used to be that if you were lost you could walk into pretty much any gas station and get halfway-decent directions.
Used to be pretty much any random denizen of a town would be able to point you towards the highway, or a restaurant, or a hotel, or a school, or whatever.
That is no longer true.We've got a new employee who grew up in this town.
Lived here his whole life, except for four years of college elsewhere.
I grew up 1,500 miles away from here and have only lived here for the last 10 years or so.
I know more about the local area than he does.
He didn't know where the civic center was.
He didn't know where one of the schools was.
We generally have to give him very specific directions when he goes out on a call.The key problem, as I see it, is that folks just don't get out of their house anymore.
And if they do, it's a simple trip from point A to point B, usually with directions from mapquest or a GPS routing them there.Folks don't wander the streets.
Folks don't pay attention to the scenery around them.
Folks don't have a feeling for the community they live in.There's "the inside of my house" and "everywhere else.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638069</id>
	<title>And we all use to know how to milk a cow, so what?</title>
	<author>TravisO</author>
	<datestamp>1247160420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm pretty sure nobody misses the fact that every man, woman and child use to know how to gut a fish or a deer, mild a cow and churn their own butter.  Technology improves, the world changes, map reading is a skill the average person does not need when a GPS device costs a mere $50 via a sale or $99 everyday.</p><p>Those that need suc skills (ex: topography experts, employees at the DOT, survival hikers) will go learn it as needed, so no harm no foul.  Anyways, is there really a difference between finding a highway on a paper map vs a LCD screen.  Given the GPS takes you to it automatically, the act of driving doesn't turn you into a zombie, you take a trip one or two times and you'll have it memorized despite using a paper map or a GPS, it's called memory and you use it either way.</p><p>This article is mostly FUD, nothing to see here people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pretty sure nobody misses the fact that every man , woman and child use to know how to gut a fish or a deer , mild a cow and churn their own butter .
Technology improves , the world changes , map reading is a skill the average person does not need when a GPS device costs a mere $ 50 via a sale or $ 99 everyday.Those that need suc skills ( ex : topography experts , employees at the DOT , survival hikers ) will go learn it as needed , so no harm no foul .
Anyways , is there really a difference between finding a highway on a paper map vs a LCD screen .
Given the GPS takes you to it automatically , the act of driving does n't turn you into a zombie , you take a trip one or two times and you 'll have it memorized despite using a paper map or a GPS , it 's called memory and you use it either way.This article is mostly FUD , nothing to see here people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pretty sure nobody misses the fact that every man, woman and child use to know how to gut a fish or a deer, mild a cow and churn their own butter.
Technology improves, the world changes, map reading is a skill the average person does not need when a GPS device costs a mere $50 via a sale or $99 everyday.Those that need suc skills (ex: topography experts, employees at the DOT, survival hikers) will go learn it as needed, so no harm no foul.
Anyways, is there really a difference between finding a highway on a paper map vs a LCD screen.
Given the GPS takes you to it automatically, the act of driving doesn't turn you into a zombie, you take a trip one or two times and you'll have it memorized despite using a paper map or a GPS, it's called memory and you use it either way.This article is mostly FUD, nothing to see here people.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635569</id>
	<title>Re:Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>hab136</author>
	<datestamp>1247150340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Sat-nav keeps damaging/destroying our property boundary wall, fucking delivery lorry drivers</p></div></blockquote><p>You mean the lorry drivers are damaging your wall by driving down streets they're not supposed to.  Bad directions from a human would have the same effect.</p><p>How close is the wall to the road anyways?  There's a reason you're supposed to keep all structures and fences a few feet back from the road.</p><blockquote><div><p>I read of one village that has had some serious problems with lorry drivers treating it as a rat-run, <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/08/satnav\_menaces\_somerset\_village/" title="theregister.co.uk">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/08/satnav\_menaces\_somerset\_village/</a> [theregister.co.uk]</p></div> </blockquote><p>I had to look up <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat\_running" title="wikipedia.org">rat run</a> [wikipedia.org] because I've never heard of it.</p><p>I read the article.  It never mentioned whether going through the village was a shorter route.  If it is, then they should be mad at the road planners, not the navigation companies, because it is a better route.  The whole article smells of "I know these are public roads, but I don't want other people driving down them!"</p><p>The real problem is that the roads in the UK are complete shit.  If the choice is between a straight 2-lane shitty road through the village or a longer curved 2-lane shitty road around the village (both marked with roughly equivalent speed limits), it's completely rational to pick the road through the village.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sat-nav keeps damaging/destroying our property boundary wall , fucking delivery lorry driversYou mean the lorry drivers are damaging your wall by driving down streets they 're not supposed to .
Bad directions from a human would have the same effect.How close is the wall to the road anyways ?
There 's a reason you 're supposed to keep all structures and fences a few feet back from the road.I read of one village that has had some serious problems with lorry drivers treating it as a rat-run , http : //www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/08/satnav \ _menaces \ _somerset \ _village/ [ theregister.co.uk ] I had to look up rat run [ wikipedia.org ] because I 've never heard of it.I read the article .
It never mentioned whether going through the village was a shorter route .
If it is , then they should be mad at the road planners , not the navigation companies , because it is a better route .
The whole article smells of " I know these are public roads , but I do n't want other people driving down them !
" The real problem is that the roads in the UK are complete shit .
If the choice is between a straight 2-lane shitty road through the village or a longer curved 2-lane shitty road around the village ( both marked with roughly equivalent speed limits ) , it 's completely rational to pick the road through the village .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sat-nav keeps damaging/destroying our property boundary wall, fucking delivery lorry driversYou mean the lorry drivers are damaging your wall by driving down streets they're not supposed to.
Bad directions from a human would have the same effect.How close is the wall to the road anyways?
There's a reason you're supposed to keep all structures and fences a few feet back from the road.I read of one village that has had some serious problems with lorry drivers treating it as a rat-run, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/08/satnav\_menaces\_somerset\_village/ [theregister.co.uk] I had to look up rat run [wikipedia.org] because I've never heard of it.I read the article.
It never mentioned whether going through the village was a shorter route.
If it is, then they should be mad at the road planners, not the navigation companies, because it is a better route.
The whole article smells of "I know these are public roads, but I don't want other people driving down them!
"The real problem is that the roads in the UK are complete shit.
If the choice is between a straight 2-lane shitty road through the village or a longer curved 2-lane shitty road around the village (both marked with roughly equivalent speed limits), it's completely rational to pick the road through the village.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634159</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633271</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>gbjbaanb</author>
	<datestamp>1247172480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>if our satnav breaks we will use google maps on a smart phone.... in the long run its just no big deal.</i></p><p>I don't know about you, but just talking on your phone whilst driving is considered dangerous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if our satnav breaks we will use google maps on a smart phone.... in the long run its just no big deal.I do n't know about you , but just talking on your phone whilst driving is considered dangerous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if our satnav breaks we will use google maps on a smart phone.... in the long run its just no big deal.I don't know about you, but just talking on your phone whilst driving is considered dangerous.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633131</id>
	<title>Who gives a fuck...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247170740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...about the local knowledge of a car or truck driver? If they piss off for good we might be able to enjoy our local knowledges again..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...about the local knowledge of a car or truck driver ?
If they piss off for good we might be able to enjoy our local knowledges again. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...about the local knowledge of a car or truck driver?
If they piss off for good we might be able to enjoy our local knowledges again..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637637</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the SatNav...</title>
	<author>residieu</author>
	<datestamp>1247158260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I didn't have a TV in the back of the car when I was growing up, but I learned when I finally started driving that I didn't have a very good grasp on where things were. I just don't pay attention to the details when I'm not driving. Even now, I need to be in the driver's seat to learn a new route.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did n't have a TV in the back of the car when I was growing up , but I learned when I finally started driving that I did n't have a very good grasp on where things were .
I just do n't pay attention to the details when I 'm not driving .
Even now , I need to be in the driver 's seat to learn a new route .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn't have a TV in the back of the car when I was growing up, but I learned when I finally started driving that I didn't have a very good grasp on where things were.
I just don't pay attention to the details when I'm not driving.
Even now, I need to be in the driver's seat to learn a new route.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633477</id>
	<title>Re:Map on TomTom</title>
	<author>u38cg</author>
	<datestamp>1247132040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>People like to feel they're in charge.  If they've got a map, they're in charge.  If you're just doing what the voice tells you, then you're not in charge.</htmltext>
<tokenext>People like to feel they 're in charge .
If they 've got a map , they 're in charge .
If you 're just doing what the voice tells you , then you 're not in charge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People like to feel they're in charge.
If they've got a map, they're in charge.
If you're just doing what the voice tells you, then you're not in charge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633165</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28640435</id>
	<title>GPS Sat-Nav and knowledge destruction...</title>
	<author>TemporalBeing</author>
	<datestamp>1247169420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well...in a way, yes it is. It's destroying the driver's knowledge of the surrounding area that they would have otherwise gained from either (i) getting lost, or (ii) stopping to talk to the locals and get directions. It's also destroying the passenger's knowledge as they won't have the varied experiences they had before since the driver (i) didn't get lost, and (ii) didn't stop to ask for directions.
<br> <br>
Honestly, half the fun of driving is getting lost in a new area and learning your way around. A sat-nav system takes that away.
<br> <br>
But it also degrades the social aspects of traveling - meeting new people, or finding the hole-in-the-wall establishments that you might have not otherwise gone to but it was the only place you could find and you really enjoyed it in the end, or a whole host of other things. Instead, people are just plugging in the "I need food" and selecting what they already know they will like, or "I need gas" and going to the closest place.
<br> <br>
So, think of it this way - if we related it to the movie 'Cars', sat-nav does basically what the highway did to the town (in a sense); and there's a whole new adventure waiting just off the road if only you'd take a look.
<br> <br>
Though, to be fair, it will likely open up some other possibilities too - meeting more people at the places you are going, and such. So it really is a double-edged sword.
<br> <br>
But I still say - getting lost is half the fun.
<br> <br>
And no - I don't use or own a GPS nav system.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well...in a way , yes it is .
It 's destroying the driver 's knowledge of the surrounding area that they would have otherwise gained from either ( i ) getting lost , or ( ii ) stopping to talk to the locals and get directions .
It 's also destroying the passenger 's knowledge as they wo n't have the varied experiences they had before since the driver ( i ) did n't get lost , and ( ii ) did n't stop to ask for directions .
Honestly , half the fun of driving is getting lost in a new area and learning your way around .
A sat-nav system takes that away .
But it also degrades the social aspects of traveling - meeting new people , or finding the hole-in-the-wall establishments that you might have not otherwise gone to but it was the only place you could find and you really enjoyed it in the end , or a whole host of other things .
Instead , people are just plugging in the " I need food " and selecting what they already know they will like , or " I need gas " and going to the closest place .
So , think of it this way - if we related it to the movie 'Cars ' , sat-nav does basically what the highway did to the town ( in a sense ) ; and there 's a whole new adventure waiting just off the road if only you 'd take a look .
Though , to be fair , it will likely open up some other possibilities too - meeting more people at the places you are going , and such .
So it really is a double-edged sword .
But I still say - getting lost is half the fun .
And no - I do n't use or own a GPS nav system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well...in a way, yes it is.
It's destroying the driver's knowledge of the surrounding area that they would have otherwise gained from either (i) getting lost, or (ii) stopping to talk to the locals and get directions.
It's also destroying the passenger's knowledge as they won't have the varied experiences they had before since the driver (i) didn't get lost, and (ii) didn't stop to ask for directions.
Honestly, half the fun of driving is getting lost in a new area and learning your way around.
A sat-nav system takes that away.
But it also degrades the social aspects of traveling - meeting new people, or finding the hole-in-the-wall establishments that you might have not otherwise gone to but it was the only place you could find and you really enjoyed it in the end, or a whole host of other things.
Instead, people are just plugging in the "I need food" and selecting what they already know they will like, or "I need gas" and going to the closest place.
So, think of it this way - if we related it to the movie 'Cars', sat-nav does basically what the highway did to the town (in a sense); and there's a whole new adventure waiting just off the road if only you'd take a look.
Though, to be fair, it will likely open up some other possibilities too - meeting more people at the places you are going, and such.
So it really is a double-edged sword.
But I still say - getting lost is half the fun.
And no - I don't use or own a GPS nav system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28656671</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247233800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>WAAS corrections can deal with increased uncertainly in ionospheric delay due to solar activity.  At least I assume that's what your talking about.  I worry about cm level GPS, so you concern seems pretty silly to me.  I can't think of any other reason you might be so worried.</htmltext>
<tokenext>WAAS corrections can deal with increased uncertainly in ionospheric delay due to solar activity .
At least I assume that 's what your talking about .
I worry about cm level GPS , so you concern seems pretty silly to me .
I ca n't think of any other reason you might be so worried .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WAAS corrections can deal with increased uncertainly in ionospheric delay due to solar activity.
At least I assume that's what your talking about.
I worry about cm level GPS, so you concern seems pretty silly to me.
I can't think of any other reason you might be so worried.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633155</id>
	<title>Navigeddon</title>
	<author>Elias Ross</author>
	<datestamp>1247171100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Adam Carolla pitched this movie idea on his (former) morning show to McG. ("Famed director McG, the creative force behind Charlie&#226;(TM)s Angels, and most recently, We Are Marshalls.")
<p>
<a href="http://adamradio.wordpress.com/2006/12/page/2/" title="wordpress.com">Summarized on the old blog.</a> [wordpress.com] </p><blockquote><div><p>Adam's got a movie pitch for McG. It takes place in the year 2222, and the military has constructed a satellite weapon that can think for itself. Adam plays Col. Duke LaCrosse. He feels like he wants no part of this military anymore, because this satellite system has gone too far. And of course, it has become evil. It&#226;(TM)s getting into the GPS systems of vehicles, because it&#226;(TM)s the year 2222, and every vehicle has GPS. It's starting to misdirect people, by having them drive out to the Grand Canyon, even though they are trying to pick up their kids from school. And this navigation satellite wants to destroy Adam, because it knows that he knows it's evil. On his side, Adam has a friendly robot &#226;" a wise-cracking Roomba. The Roomba serves as Adam's navigation device, so he doesn&#226;(TM)t have to rely on the evil GPS.
</p><p>
With the help of the Roomba, Adam navigates the corridors of the ground base, but can&#226;(TM)t control the satellite from Earth. It&#226;(TM)s too evil. They have to launch into space, and dismantle it from there. "Who&#226;(TM)s the NASA insider," McG asks? "Michael Richards." He's a wild-haired nerd, whose wife was misdirected into the Grand Canyon by this satellite, so he's got a score to settle.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Also made the <a href="http://trekcc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=279&amp;p=2339" title="trekcc.com">same pitch to JJ Abrams.</a> [trekcc.com].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Adam Carolla pitched this movie idea on his ( former ) morning show to McG .
( " Famed director McG , the creative force behind Charlie   ( TM ) s Angels , and most recently , We Are Marshalls .
" ) Summarized on the old blog .
[ wordpress.com ] Adam 's got a movie pitch for McG .
It takes place in the year 2222 , and the military has constructed a satellite weapon that can think for itself .
Adam plays Col. Duke LaCrosse .
He feels like he wants no part of this military anymore , because this satellite system has gone too far .
And of course , it has become evil .
It   ( TM ) s getting into the GPS systems of vehicles , because it   ( TM ) s the year 2222 , and every vehicle has GPS .
It 's starting to misdirect people , by having them drive out to the Grand Canyon , even though they are trying to pick up their kids from school .
And this navigation satellite wants to destroy Adam , because it knows that he knows it 's evil .
On his side , Adam has a friendly robot   " a wise-cracking Roomba .
The Roomba serves as Adam 's navigation device , so he doesn   ( TM ) t have to rely on the evil GPS .
With the help of the Roomba , Adam navigates the corridors of the ground base , but can   ( TM ) t control the satellite from Earth .
It   ( TM ) s too evil .
They have to launch into space , and dismantle it from there .
" Who   ( TM ) s the NASA insider , " McG asks ?
" Michael Richards .
" He 's a wild-haired nerd , whose wife was misdirected into the Grand Canyon by this satellite , so he 's got a score to settle .
Also made the same pitch to JJ Abrams .
[ trekcc.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Adam Carolla pitched this movie idea on his (former) morning show to McG.
("Famed director McG, the creative force behind Charlieâ(TM)s Angels, and most recently, We Are Marshalls.
")

Summarized on the old blog.
[wordpress.com] Adam's got a movie pitch for McG.
It takes place in the year 2222, and the military has constructed a satellite weapon that can think for itself.
Adam plays Col. Duke LaCrosse.
He feels like he wants no part of this military anymore, because this satellite system has gone too far.
And of course, it has become evil.
Itâ(TM)s getting into the GPS systems of vehicles, because itâ(TM)s the year 2222, and every vehicle has GPS.
It's starting to misdirect people, by having them drive out to the Grand Canyon, even though they are trying to pick up their kids from school.
And this navigation satellite wants to destroy Adam, because it knows that he knows it's evil.
On his side, Adam has a friendly robot â" a wise-cracking Roomba.
The Roomba serves as Adam's navigation device, so he doesnâ(TM)t have to rely on the evil GPS.
With the help of the Roomba, Adam navigates the corridors of the ground base, but canâ(TM)t control the satellite from Earth.
Itâ(TM)s too evil.
They have to launch into space, and dismantle it from there.
"Whoâ(TM)s the NASA insider," McG asks?
"Michael Richards.
" He's a wild-haired nerd, whose wife was misdirected into the Grand Canyon by this satellite, so he's got a score to settle.
Also made the same pitch to JJ Abrams.
[trekcc.com].
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635315</id>
	<title>Re:Sat-nav is a menace</title>
	<author>Thanatos81</author>
	<datestamp>1247149080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, if the UK hauliers are anything like those over here in Germany, I'm not very suprised about your experience.

Most lorry drivers I've seen got some general Sat-nav device which was cheap or something in the mid-range by a known manufacturer like TomTom or Garmin.

I often talk to lorry drivers searching an addresse around my work, and I have only once seen a driver carrying some Sat-Nav device suitable for lorries, which was a TomTom Work. Those, and most likely similar devices by Garmin and others, got information about how wide a road is, what the maximum clearances are etc. But your average TomTom One is just cheaper...

And I agree with "that IT girl". It's the drivers fault. My hometown got some changes in traffic routeing. Some of them changed former two-ways roads to one-ways. Since this is only some month ago, my Sat-nav doesn't know of it yet. So should the Sat-Nav maker "hold some responsibility" because I blindly follow their device instead of using my brains and don't pay heed to road-signs?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , if the UK hauliers are anything like those over here in Germany , I 'm not very suprised about your experience .
Most lorry drivers I 've seen got some general Sat-nav device which was cheap or something in the mid-range by a known manufacturer like TomTom or Garmin .
I often talk to lorry drivers searching an addresse around my work , and I have only once seen a driver carrying some Sat-Nav device suitable for lorries , which was a TomTom Work .
Those , and most likely similar devices by Garmin and others , got information about how wide a road is , what the maximum clearances are etc .
But your average TomTom One is just cheaper.. . And I agree with " that IT girl " .
It 's the drivers fault .
My hometown got some changes in traffic routeing .
Some of them changed former two-ways roads to one-ways .
Since this is only some month ago , my Sat-nav does n't know of it yet .
So should the Sat-Nav maker " hold some responsibility " because I blindly follow their device instead of using my brains and do n't pay heed to road-signs ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, if the UK hauliers are anything like those over here in Germany, I'm not very suprised about your experience.
Most lorry drivers I've seen got some general Sat-nav device which was cheap or something in the mid-range by a known manufacturer like TomTom or Garmin.
I often talk to lorry drivers searching an addresse around my work, and I have only once seen a driver carrying some Sat-Nav device suitable for lorries, which was a TomTom Work.
Those, and most likely similar devices by Garmin and others, got information about how wide a road is, what the maximum clearances are etc.
But your average TomTom One is just cheaper...

And I agree with "that IT girl".
It's the drivers fault.
My hometown got some changes in traffic routeing.
Some of them changed former two-ways roads to one-ways.
Since this is only some month ago, my Sat-nav doesn't know of it yet.
So should the Sat-Nav maker "hold some responsibility" because I blindly follow their device instead of using my brains and don't pay heed to road-signs?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634159</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634229</id>
	<title>Re:Real men don't use tools?</title>
	<author>nem75</author>
	<datestamp>1247139480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>GPS is used for new routes. It's new knowledge. Nobody uses Sat-Nav repeatedly for the same destination.</p></div><p>Uh-huh. Meanwhile, here on earth, people happily use their nav units to drive around their little hometowns, traveling from well-known destination to well-known destination, because they got so used to it that <i>they don't have a fucking clue how to drive without the damn thing switched on anymore</i>.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>GPS is used for new routes .
It 's new knowledge .
Nobody uses Sat-Nav repeatedly for the same destination.Uh-huh .
Meanwhile , here on earth , people happily use their nav units to drive around their little hometowns , traveling from well-known destination to well-known destination , because they got so used to it that they do n't have a fucking clue how to drive without the damn thing switched on anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GPS is used for new routes.
It's new knowledge.
Nobody uses Sat-Nav repeatedly for the same destination.Uh-huh.
Meanwhile, here on earth, people happily use their nav units to drive around their little hometowns, traveling from well-known destination to well-known destination, because they got so used to it that they don't have a fucking clue how to drive without the damn thing switched on anymore.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633395</id>
	<title>There's a reason we men don't trust the sat-nav</title>
	<author>VShael</author>
	<datestamp>1247131200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't tell you how often the damn thing is just wrong.<br>It has difficulty distinguishing roads that are really near to each other, as well as roads that pass over one another.<br>You can be driving along a motorway, and suddenly she pipes up "TURN LEFT!!"<br>If you were keyed to obey her, you'd fly off the overpass and fall down into traffic.</p><p>There are parts of Wales I have visited, particularly in Holyhead, where old roads simply don't exist on the map.</p><p>And take a look (use google earth) at the roads and routes around any major airport, (for me, Zaventem in Belgium).<br>Sat-nav is useless there.</p><p>The sat nav is about as useful as having google maps on a laptop in the car. Pull over and check it out if you must. Plan your route before you go though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't tell you how often the damn thing is just wrong.It has difficulty distinguishing roads that are really near to each other , as well as roads that pass over one another.You can be driving along a motorway , and suddenly she pipes up " TURN LEFT ! !
" If you were keyed to obey her , you 'd fly off the overpass and fall down into traffic.There are parts of Wales I have visited , particularly in Holyhead , where old roads simply do n't exist on the map.And take a look ( use google earth ) at the roads and routes around any major airport , ( for me , Zaventem in Belgium ) .Sat-nav is useless there.The sat nav is about as useful as having google maps on a laptop in the car .
Pull over and check it out if you must .
Plan your route before you go though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't tell you how often the damn thing is just wrong.It has difficulty distinguishing roads that are really near to each other, as well as roads that pass over one another.You can be driving along a motorway, and suddenly she pipes up "TURN LEFT!!
"If you were keyed to obey her, you'd fly off the overpass and fall down into traffic.There are parts of Wales I have visited, particularly in Holyhead, where old roads simply don't exist on the map.And take a look (use google earth) at the roads and routes around any major airport, (for me, Zaventem in Belgium).Sat-nav is useless there.The sat nav is about as useful as having google maps on a laptop in the car.
Pull over and check it out if you must.
Plan your route before you go though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636681</id>
	<title>Cause for Celebration and Feasting</title>
	<author>llordreefa</author>
	<datestamp>1247154540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Clearly we have passed another milstone on the way to the world envisioned so long ago on Usenet's alt.pave.the.earth. What is behind you does not matter, and all dissenters go to the hydro-pits!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Clearly we have passed another milstone on the way to the world envisioned so long ago on Usenet 's alt.pave.the.earth .
What is behind you does not matter , and all dissenters go to the hydro-pits !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Clearly we have passed another milstone on the way to the world envisioned so long ago on Usenet's alt.pave.the.earth.
What is behind you does not matter, and all dissenters go to the hydro-pits!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634361</id>
	<title>Re:speed dial</title>
	<author>PMBjornerud</author>
	<datestamp>1247140920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list. Yes we did lose the ability to recite everybody's number, but we rarely miss it.</p></div><p>But dialing a number from memory is often faster than using a contact list.</p><p>I want this implementation:<br>- When selecting a contact to dial, number is displayed.<br>- You can press "dial" - OR <b>type the number, turning each digit green as you go.</b></p><p>Unless I am in extreme hurry, I'd take the extra seconds to dial the number. Over time, I would learn the numbers and actually save time by not having to use the contact list that often.</p><p>Not to mention that phones get left at home, lost, stolen, runs out of battery or various other minor happenings. Being able to dial numbers from memory is pretty neat. And <b>fast.</b></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list .
Yes we did lose the ability to recite everybody 's number , but we rarely miss it.But dialing a number from memory is often faster than using a contact list.I want this implementation : - When selecting a contact to dial , number is displayed.- You can press " dial " - OR type the number , turning each digit green as you go.Unless I am in extreme hurry , I 'd take the extra seconds to dial the number .
Over time , I would learn the numbers and actually save time by not having to use the contact list that often.Not to mention that phones get left at home , lost , stolen , runs out of battery or various other minor happenings .
Being able to dial numbers from memory is pretty neat .
And fast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this is true it will be just like speed dial and later the cell phone contact list.
Yes we did lose the ability to recite everybody's number, but we rarely miss it.But dialing a number from memory is often faster than using a contact list.I want this implementation:- When selecting a contact to dial, number is displayed.- You can press "dial" - OR type the number, turning each digit green as you go.Unless I am in extreme hurry, I'd take the extra seconds to dial the number.
Over time, I would learn the numbers and actually save time by not having to use the contact list that often.Not to mention that phones get left at home, lost, stolen, runs out of battery or various other minor happenings.
Being able to dial numbers from memory is pretty neat.
And fast.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633165</id>
	<title>Map on TomTom</title>
	<author>tsa</author>
	<datestamp>1247171280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I never understood why a TomTom or similar device has to display a map of the surroundings of the vehicle. It distracts from the driving and it's useless unless you know where you are, in which case you don't need the TomTom anyway. You only need the voice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I never understood why a TomTom or similar device has to display a map of the surroundings of the vehicle .
It distracts from the driving and it 's useless unless you know where you are , in which case you do n't need the TomTom anyway .
You only need the voice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I never understood why a TomTom or similar device has to display a map of the surroundings of the vehicle.
It distracts from the driving and it's useless unless you know where you are, in which case you don't need the TomTom anyway.
You only need the voice.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634627</id>
	<title>Saving the back roads for me!</title>
	<author>foolish\_to\_be\_here</author>
	<datestamp>1247144340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm all for this cattle herding technology (not that I'm not dabbling with it myself).  It will free up the back roads as people use sat/nav/google maps to find a path between points.  The cops will follow too.  This eases congestion on my commute, saving both time and fuel cost.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm all for this cattle herding technology ( not that I 'm not dabbling with it myself ) .
It will free up the back roads as people use sat/nav/google maps to find a path between points .
The cops will follow too .
This eases congestion on my commute , saving both time and fuel cost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm all for this cattle herding technology (not that I'm not dabbling with it myself).
It will free up the back roads as people use sat/nav/google maps to find a path between points.
The cops will follow too.
This eases congestion on my commute, saving both time and fuel cost.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28641757</id>
	<title>Re:everyone wave their arms in panic!</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1247131740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>God, I hate this kind of thought pattern.  We're not talking about killing off a language thats dead.  We're not talking about getting rid of an old method of doing things that is no longer needed.  We're talking about being able to find your way around, without assistance.</p><p>This won't be killed by GPS any more than it already has.  People rarely use GPS to get around where they live, they use it to navigate long distances or previously unexplorered areas.  Interestingly enough, people do learn how to navigate better with GPS devices.  Once I turned my gf's TomTom out of rotating map mode or whatever you call it, and to a normal north is up mode, she actually learned what east/west/north/south means when you get directions.  She can actually read maps BETTER now than any time before her GPS, which works especially well given that her GPS is often wrong and a simple phone call to someone who can give directions properly gets her out of trouble fairly quickly.</p><p>Now that I can say, you need to go to the 3700 block and turn East, our conversations when she gets lost go from 'well first I have to figure out where you are and which way you are going' to a simple 'what street are you on?'  Jump to Google maps, figure out her general area, and go from there.</p><p>She has learned that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, and is always in the southern hemisphere from our point of view.  She can now figure out reasonable well which direction she is heading just based on seeing the sun or the moon.  The moon is obviously less useful when its cloudy, but it takes pretty good cloud cover to completely obscure the sun to the point that you can't find it in the sky, so most of the time she's actually knows where shes going and a very simple set of directions can get her going the right way.</p><p>I've been with her for 6 years, bought a GPS for her birthday a year ago, and now she can actually navigate based on proper directions on her own.</p><p>The 'skill' isn't going to die, and its hardly useless.  You may be ignorant and completely unaware of how advantageous it is to know how to navigate, but that just puts you in the same category as people who think knowing how to write isn't important.</p><p>The up side is, every time some douche bag like yourself gets REALLY lost and with dead batteries, you'll be less likely to find your way to safety, hopefully saving the gene pool from having to figure out another way to effectively cover you in chlorine.  Being short sighted and narrow minded is fun, isn't it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>God , I hate this kind of thought pattern .
We 're not talking about killing off a language thats dead .
We 're not talking about getting rid of an old method of doing things that is no longer needed .
We 're talking about being able to find your way around , without assistance.This wo n't be killed by GPS any more than it already has .
People rarely use GPS to get around where they live , they use it to navigate long distances or previously unexplorered areas .
Interestingly enough , people do learn how to navigate better with GPS devices .
Once I turned my gf 's TomTom out of rotating map mode or whatever you call it , and to a normal north is up mode , she actually learned what east/west/north/south means when you get directions .
She can actually read maps BETTER now than any time before her GPS , which works especially well given that her GPS is often wrong and a simple phone call to someone who can give directions properly gets her out of trouble fairly quickly.Now that I can say , you need to go to the 3700 block and turn East , our conversations when she gets lost go from 'well first I have to figure out where you are and which way you are going ' to a simple 'what street are you on ?
' Jump to Google maps , figure out her general area , and go from there.She has learned that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west , and is always in the southern hemisphere from our point of view .
She can now figure out reasonable well which direction she is heading just based on seeing the sun or the moon .
The moon is obviously less useful when its cloudy , but it takes pretty good cloud cover to completely obscure the sun to the point that you ca n't find it in the sky , so most of the time she 's actually knows where shes going and a very simple set of directions can get her going the right way.I 've been with her for 6 years , bought a GPS for her birthday a year ago , and now she can actually navigate based on proper directions on her own.The 'skill ' is n't going to die , and its hardly useless .
You may be ignorant and completely unaware of how advantageous it is to know how to navigate , but that just puts you in the same category as people who think knowing how to write is n't important.The up side is , every time some douche bag like yourself gets REALLY lost and with dead batteries , you 'll be less likely to find your way to safety , hopefully saving the gene pool from having to figure out another way to effectively cover you in chlorine .
Being short sighted and narrow minded is fun , is n't it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God, I hate this kind of thought pattern.
We're not talking about killing off a language thats dead.
We're not talking about getting rid of an old method of doing things that is no longer needed.
We're talking about being able to find your way around, without assistance.This won't be killed by GPS any more than it already has.
People rarely use GPS to get around where they live, they use it to navigate long distances or previously unexplorered areas.
Interestingly enough, people do learn how to navigate better with GPS devices.
Once I turned my gf's TomTom out of rotating map mode or whatever you call it, and to a normal north is up mode, she actually learned what east/west/north/south means when you get directions.
She can actually read maps BETTER now than any time before her GPS, which works especially well given that her GPS is often wrong and a simple phone call to someone who can give directions properly gets her out of trouble fairly quickly.Now that I can say, you need to go to the 3700 block and turn East, our conversations when she gets lost go from 'well first I have to figure out where you are and which way you are going' to a simple 'what street are you on?
'  Jump to Google maps, figure out her general area, and go from there.She has learned that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, and is always in the southern hemisphere from our point of view.
She can now figure out reasonable well which direction she is heading just based on seeing the sun or the moon.
The moon is obviously less useful when its cloudy, but it takes pretty good cloud cover to completely obscure the sun to the point that you can't find it in the sky, so most of the time she's actually knows where shes going and a very simple set of directions can get her going the right way.I've been with her for 6 years, bought a GPS for her birthday a year ago, and now she can actually navigate based on proper directions on her own.The 'skill' isn't going to die, and its hardly useless.
You may be ignorant and completely unaware of how advantageous it is to know how to navigate, but that just puts you in the same category as people who think knowing how to write isn't important.The up side is, every time some douche bag like yourself gets REALLY lost and with dead batteries, you'll be less likely to find your way to safety, hopefully saving the gene pool from having to figure out another way to effectively cover you in chlorine.
Being short sighted and narrow minded is fun, isn't it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633191</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636145</id>
	<title>We call our Tom Tom "Stella"</title>
	<author>DaveAtFraud</author>
	<datestamp>1247152860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...after the Mudd's wife in the original Star Trek series episode "I, Mudd."</p><p>I still prefer real, paper maps as well as our GPS for navigation away from cities.  You really don't need the GPS away from big cities and the paper map tells you much more about what's nearby (and even not so nearby).  Can't beat the GPS though for getting around or through big cities when you're on a road trip.</p><p>Cheers,<br>Dave</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...after the Mudd 's wife in the original Star Trek series episode " I , Mudd .
" I still prefer real , paper maps as well as our GPS for navigation away from cities .
You really do n't need the GPS away from big cities and the paper map tells you much more about what 's nearby ( and even not so nearby ) .
Ca n't beat the GPS though for getting around or through big cities when you 're on a road trip.Cheers,Dave</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...after the Mudd's wife in the original Star Trek series episode "I, Mudd.
"I still prefer real, paper maps as well as our GPS for navigation away from cities.
You really don't need the GPS away from big cities and the paper map tells you much more about what's nearby (and even not so nearby).
Can't beat the GPS though for getting around or through big cities when you're on a road trip.Cheers,Dave</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634553</id>
	<title>Yes -- but new ways of doing it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247143380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"But do real men use sat-nav?"</p><p>Absolutely.  But "real men" (sheesh) have their GPS plugged into their laptop computer, plot their tracks in real-time over a fully detailed topographic or satellite imagery map, and they synchronize their camera and GPS date/time so that they can plot the exact location of any photos using GPS photo tagging software.  If the trip might be of interest to others, they convert the whole thing into HTML and/or KML automatically and put it on the web for other people to enjoy.</p><p>Those silly "turn left here" things?  Heck, no.  What a waste of time those are, especially since all they usually have on them are the roads.  I don't get lost easily -- take me to an unknown city, drop me off somewhere, and I can wander around just fine and find my way back to where I started, whether in a car or on foot.  But if I'm trying to find some obscure place off in the wilderness, of course I would take a map, and "turn left" doesn't have any meaning when off road.  Why wouldn't I use the modern equivalent of a good topographic map or orthophoto map?</p><p>If you're really worried about "losing local knowledge", put it in <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/" title="openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow">OpenStreetMap</a> [openstreetmap.org]<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" But do real men use sat-nav ? " Absolutely .
But " real men " ( sheesh ) have their GPS plugged into their laptop computer , plot their tracks in real-time over a fully detailed topographic or satellite imagery map , and they synchronize their camera and GPS date/time so that they can plot the exact location of any photos using GPS photo tagging software .
If the trip might be of interest to others , they convert the whole thing into HTML and/or KML automatically and put it on the web for other people to enjoy.Those silly " turn left here " things ?
Heck , no .
What a waste of time those are , especially since all they usually have on them are the roads .
I do n't get lost easily -- take me to an unknown city , drop me off somewhere , and I can wander around just fine and find my way back to where I started , whether in a car or on foot .
But if I 'm trying to find some obscure place off in the wilderness , of course I would take a map , and " turn left " does n't have any meaning when off road .
Why would n't I use the modern equivalent of a good topographic map or orthophoto map ? If you 're really worried about " losing local knowledge " , put it in OpenStreetMap [ openstreetmap.org ] : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"But do real men use sat-nav?"Absolutely.
But "real men" (sheesh) have their GPS plugged into their laptop computer, plot their tracks in real-time over a fully detailed topographic or satellite imagery map, and they synchronize their camera and GPS date/time so that they can plot the exact location of any photos using GPS photo tagging software.
If the trip might be of interest to others, they convert the whole thing into HTML and/or KML automatically and put it on the web for other people to enjoy.Those silly "turn left here" things?
Heck, no.
What a waste of time those are, especially since all they usually have on them are the roads.
I don't get lost easily -- take me to an unknown city, drop me off somewhere, and I can wander around just fine and find my way back to where I started, whether in a car or on foot.
But if I'm trying to find some obscure place off in the wilderness, of course I would take a map, and "turn left" doesn't have any meaning when off road.
Why wouldn't I use the modern equivalent of a good topographic map or orthophoto map?If you're really worried about "losing local knowledge", put it in OpenStreetMap [openstreetmap.org] :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634013</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, which planet Earth? -sextants still in u</title>
	<author>chebucto</author>
	<datestamp>1247137440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the parent's defense, events strong enough to distrupt GPS comms do not have to be on the scale of the Carrington Event that you mentioned. From<br><a href="http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/06may\_carringtonflare.htm" title="nasa.gov">http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/06may\_carringtonflare.htm</a> [nasa.gov] </p><p><div class="quote"><p>In December 2005, X-rays from another solar storm disrupted satellite-to-ground communications and Global Positioning System (GPS) navigation signals for about 10 minutes. That may not sound like much, but as Lanzerotti noted, "I would not have wanted to be on a commercial airplane being guided in for a landing by GPS or on a ship being docked by GPS during that 10 minutes."</p></div><p>The same article says</p><p><div class="quote"><p>On Earth, power lines and long-distance telephone cables might be affected by auroral currents, as happened in 1989. Radar, cell phone communications, and GPS receivers could be disrupted by solar radio noise. Experts who have studied the question say there is little to be done to protect satellites from a Carrington-class flare.</p></div><p>Granted, recent the recent flare-related GPS disruption didn't last several days, but large flares do happen on a fairly regular basis (the article mentions 'huge' storms in 1942 and 1989). Which confirms the parent's main point: that backup tech (like sextants) is really a necessity when lives are at stake, simply on the basis of solar flares.</p><p>Obviously, backup tech is also needed to cover everyday problems like systems breakdowns while at sea.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the parent 's defense , events strong enough to distrupt GPS comms do not have to be on the scale of the Carrington Event that you mentioned .
Fromhttp : //science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/06may \ _carringtonflare.htm [ nasa.gov ] In December 2005 , X-rays from another solar storm disrupted satellite-to-ground communications and Global Positioning System ( GPS ) navigation signals for about 10 minutes .
That may not sound like much , but as Lanzerotti noted , " I would not have wanted to be on a commercial airplane being guided in for a landing by GPS or on a ship being docked by GPS during that 10 minutes .
" The same article saysOn Earth , power lines and long-distance telephone cables might be affected by auroral currents , as happened in 1989 .
Radar , cell phone communications , and GPS receivers could be disrupted by solar radio noise .
Experts who have studied the question say there is little to be done to protect satellites from a Carrington-class flare.Granted , recent the recent flare-related GPS disruption did n't last several days , but large flares do happen on a fairly regular basis ( the article mentions 'huge ' storms in 1942 and 1989 ) .
Which confirms the parent 's main point : that backup tech ( like sextants ) is really a necessity when lives are at stake , simply on the basis of solar flares.Obviously , backup tech is also needed to cover everyday problems like systems breakdowns while at sea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the parent's defense, events strong enough to distrupt GPS comms do not have to be on the scale of the Carrington Event that you mentioned.
Fromhttp://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/06may\_carringtonflare.htm [nasa.gov] In December 2005, X-rays from another solar storm disrupted satellite-to-ground communications and Global Positioning System (GPS) navigation signals for about 10 minutes.
That may not sound like much, but as Lanzerotti noted, "I would not have wanted to be on a commercial airplane being guided in for a landing by GPS or on a ship being docked by GPS during that 10 minutes.
"The same article saysOn Earth, power lines and long-distance telephone cables might be affected by auroral currents, as happened in 1989.
Radar, cell phone communications, and GPS receivers could be disrupted by solar radio noise.
Experts who have studied the question say there is little to be done to protect satellites from a Carrington-class flare.Granted, recent the recent flare-related GPS disruption didn't last several days, but large flares do happen on a fairly regular basis (the article mentions 'huge' storms in 1942 and 1989).
Which confirms the parent's main point: that backup tech (like sextants) is really a necessity when lives are at stake, simply on the basis of solar flares.Obviously, backup tech is also needed to cover everyday problems like systems breakdowns while at sea.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28635017</id>
	<title>In a word - No,</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1247147460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Calligraphy isn't a lost art; I know a Calligrapher. However, I don't know anybody with a sat-vav, so I don't see how it's "destroying local knowledge", at least yet. Also I don't know what "destroy local knowledge" means (maybe I should RTFA). People are using these things in their own town? I can see it if you're in a big city going to a new restaraunt, but Google Maps will do far better.</p><p>The reason men won't ask directions is because people give bad directions. The reason women do is because they're generally bad at reading maps.</p><p>Maps are sometimes inaccurate, but on the whole they'll get you where you'r going and get you there HOW you want to go there. You can determine the best route <i>for you</i> far better than any algorythm or stranger on the street. Do you want fast? Safe? Fuel efficient? Often these factors will give different routes. Often the shortest route isn't the best route - sometimes the shortest route will take longer and use more gasoline.</p><p>No, I'll stick to a map, whether online or paper.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Calligraphy is n't a lost art ; I know a Calligrapher .
However , I do n't know anybody with a sat-vav , so I do n't see how it 's " destroying local knowledge " , at least yet .
Also I do n't know what " destroy local knowledge " means ( maybe I should RTFA ) .
People are using these things in their own town ?
I can see it if you 're in a big city going to a new restaraunt , but Google Maps will do far better.The reason men wo n't ask directions is because people give bad directions .
The reason women do is because they 're generally bad at reading maps.Maps are sometimes inaccurate , but on the whole they 'll get you where you'r going and get you there HOW you want to go there .
You can determine the best route for you far better than any algorythm or stranger on the street .
Do you want fast ?
Safe ? Fuel efficient ?
Often these factors will give different routes .
Often the shortest route is n't the best route - sometimes the shortest route will take longer and use more gasoline.No , I 'll stick to a map , whether online or paper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Calligraphy isn't a lost art; I know a Calligrapher.
However, I don't know anybody with a sat-vav, so I don't see how it's "destroying local knowledge", at least yet.
Also I don't know what "destroy local knowledge" means (maybe I should RTFA).
People are using these things in their own town?
I can see it if you're in a big city going to a new restaraunt, but Google Maps will do far better.The reason men won't ask directions is because people give bad directions.
The reason women do is because they're generally bad at reading maps.Maps are sometimes inaccurate, but on the whole they'll get you where you'r going and get you there HOW you want to go there.
You can determine the best route for you far better than any algorythm or stranger on the street.
Do you want fast?
Safe? Fuel efficient?
Often these factors will give different routes.
Often the shortest route isn't the best route - sometimes the shortest route will take longer and use more gasoline.No, I'll stick to a map, whether online or paper.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28637811</id>
	<title>screamin</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247159160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We just need more control over the output. Like you should be able to have loud house beats playing behind her so she has to scream the directions to you, and then maybe program her to add some completely unrelated phrases like "Let's go get another drink", or "Let's go out to the parking lot for a BJ".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We just need more control over the output .
Like you should be able to have loud house beats playing behind her so she has to scream the directions to you , and then maybe program her to add some completely unrelated phrases like " Let 's go get another drink " , or " Let 's go out to the parking lot for a BJ " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We just need more control over the output.
Like you should be able to have loud house beats playing behind her so she has to scream the directions to you, and then maybe program her to add some completely unrelated phrases like "Let's go get another drink", or "Let's go out to the parking lot for a BJ".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28634577</id>
	<title>Re:Agree to Disagree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247143560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or <a href="http://glagps.vanmiddlesworth.org/" title="vanmiddlesworth.org" rel="nofollow">G.L.a.D.O.S.</a> [vanmiddlesworth.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or G.L.a.D.O.S .
[ vanmiddlesworth.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or G.L.a.D.O.S.
[vanmiddlesworth.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633097</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28636247</id>
	<title>GPS-based Navigations systems enhance knowledge</title>
	<author>anegg</author>
	<datestamp>1247153160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, I don't think that a satellite navigation aid will destroy local knowledge.

</p><p>In my local area, I only occasionally use my non-built-in GPS-based navigator tool.  When I do use it, it adds to my store of local knowledge.  It has occasionally taught me a new connection between two places that I otherwise would not recognize.  For those of us who are "good" at finding our way around an area in which we spend a lot of time, it enhances local knowledge, not erases it.

</p><p>I suspect that for those who never would have been good at finding their way around an area even though they spend a lot of time there, it will be a boon (most of the time) because it will give them a capability they didn't have on their own.  It may, to a certain extent, become a crutch that keeps them from achieving a slightly higher level of unaided navigational skill through practise.  But I bet most will accept this tradeoff.

</p><p>For areas in which I am not familiar, and which I will be in only briefly, it saves me from having to spend 15 minutes studying a map to get from point A to point B, and it saves me from well-meaning but ultimately inaccurate directions given by folks who have local knowledge but can't accurately recall *all* of the turns/landmarks that I will need as an outsider without local knowledge.

</p><p>For me, ultimately, it is a navigational aid.  I still have my hardcopy maps, and on long trips I take MapQuest/GoogleMaps-planned routes with me.  The sat-nav is exceptionally useful in telling me *quickly* exactly where I am, how far it is to my destination, etc.  Best of all, however, are the millions of POI in the sat-nav... gas stations and food being the most useful.  All taken with a grain of salt, of course, because the data is partially out of date even before I get it loaded, and after a year or two has gone by not every POI listed is still going to be there.

</p><p>There is no way I would ever have "local knowledge" of these routes and locations since I am but briefly "local" to them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , I do n't think that a satellite navigation aid will destroy local knowledge .
In my local area , I only occasionally use my non-built-in GPS-based navigator tool .
When I do use it , it adds to my store of local knowledge .
It has occasionally taught me a new connection between two places that I otherwise would not recognize .
For those of us who are " good " at finding our way around an area in which we spend a lot of time , it enhances local knowledge , not erases it .
I suspect that for those who never would have been good at finding their way around an area even though they spend a lot of time there , it will be a boon ( most of the time ) because it will give them a capability they did n't have on their own .
It may , to a certain extent , become a crutch that keeps them from achieving a slightly higher level of unaided navigational skill through practise .
But I bet most will accept this tradeoff .
For areas in which I am not familiar , and which I will be in only briefly , it saves me from having to spend 15 minutes studying a map to get from point A to point B , and it saves me from well-meaning but ultimately inaccurate directions given by folks who have local knowledge but ca n't accurately recall * all * of the turns/landmarks that I will need as an outsider without local knowledge .
For me , ultimately , it is a navigational aid .
I still have my hardcopy maps , and on long trips I take MapQuest/GoogleMaps-planned routes with me .
The sat-nav is exceptionally useful in telling me * quickly * exactly where I am , how far it is to my destination , etc .
Best of all , however , are the millions of POI in the sat-nav... gas stations and food being the most useful .
All taken with a grain of salt , of course , because the data is partially out of date even before I get it loaded , and after a year or two has gone by not every POI listed is still going to be there .
There is no way I would ever have " local knowledge " of these routes and locations since I am but briefly " local " to them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, I don't think that a satellite navigation aid will destroy local knowledge.
In my local area, I only occasionally use my non-built-in GPS-based navigator tool.
When I do use it, it adds to my store of local knowledge.
It has occasionally taught me a new connection between two places that I otherwise would not recognize.
For those of us who are "good" at finding our way around an area in which we spend a lot of time, it enhances local knowledge, not erases it.
I suspect that for those who never would have been good at finding their way around an area even though they spend a lot of time there, it will be a boon (most of the time) because it will give them a capability they didn't have on their own.
It may, to a certain extent, become a crutch that keeps them from achieving a slightly higher level of unaided navigational skill through practise.
But I bet most will accept this tradeoff.
For areas in which I am not familiar, and which I will be in only briefly, it saves me from having to spend 15 minutes studying a map to get from point A to point B, and it saves me from well-meaning but ultimately inaccurate directions given by folks who have local knowledge but can't accurately recall *all* of the turns/landmarks that I will need as an outsider without local knowledge.
For me, ultimately, it is a navigational aid.
I still have my hardcopy maps, and on long trips I take MapQuest/GoogleMaps-planned routes with me.
The sat-nav is exceptionally useful in telling me *quickly* exactly where I am, how far it is to my destination, etc.
Best of all, however, are the millions of POI in the sat-nav... gas stations and food being the most useful.
All taken with a grain of salt, of course, because the data is partially out of date even before I get it loaded, and after a year or two has gone by not every POI listed is still going to be there.
There is no way I would ever have "local knowledge" of these routes and locations since I am but briefly "local" to them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633097</id>
	<title>Agree to Disagree</title>
	<author>j0hnyquest</author>
	<datestamp>1247170440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>You haven't lived until you've been in a car with the Denzel Washington sat-nav voice.

"Take a MOTHERFUCKING left turn. NOW"

If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007...</htmltext>
<tokenext>You have n't lived until you 've been in a car with the Denzel Washington sat-nav voice .
" Take a MOTHERFUCKING left turn .
NOW " If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You haven't lived until you've been in a car with the Denzel Washington sat-nav voice.
"Take a MOTHERFUCKING left turn.
NOW"

If only there was one for Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28638785</id>
	<title>Re:Don't know about Sat-nav</title>
	<author>MartinSchou</author>
	<datestamp>1247163360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a GPS for my bicycle (built in HR and cadence monitor as well) and it is very helpful in exploring new areas.</p><p>You do need a better map than the ones that come as standard. The one I have comes with a <b>very</b> basic map of Europe and only has the main roads. Not the best thing when you live out in the boondocks several miles from that road.</p><p>Better maps help, but I haven't found any units+maps that support navigating via bicycle lanes. Or even sidewalks and small paths. The ones I've seen and tried all act as if you're a car and while they do give you an option of staying off of main and unpaved roads as well as "navigate for pedestrian or bicycle" they have all been completely unable to navigate properly without using the roads. Like taking a 300 yard short cut by foot vs following the road for 6 km.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a GPS for my bicycle ( built in HR and cadence monitor as well ) and it is very helpful in exploring new areas.You do need a better map than the ones that come as standard .
The one I have comes with a very basic map of Europe and only has the main roads .
Not the best thing when you live out in the boondocks several miles from that road.Better maps help , but I have n't found any units + maps that support navigating via bicycle lanes .
Or even sidewalks and small paths .
The ones I 've seen and tried all act as if you 're a car and while they do give you an option of staying off of main and unpaved roads as well as " navigate for pedestrian or bicycle " they have all been completely unable to navigate properly without using the roads .
Like taking a 300 yard short cut by foot vs following the road for 6 km .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a GPS for my bicycle (built in HR and cadence monitor as well) and it is very helpful in exploring new areas.You do need a better map than the ones that come as standard.
The one I have comes with a very basic map of Europe and only has the main roads.
Not the best thing when you live out in the boondocks several miles from that road.Better maps help, but I haven't found any units+maps that support navigating via bicycle lanes.
Or even sidewalks and small paths.
The ones I've seen and tried all act as if you're a car and while they do give you an option of staying off of main and unpaved roads as well as "navigate for pedestrian or bicycle" they have all been completely unable to navigate properly without using the roads.
Like taking a 300 yard short cut by foot vs following the road for 6 km.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_09_0150239.28633999</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_09_0150239_22</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_09_0150239_98</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_09_0150239_41</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_09_0150239_43</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_09_0150239_14</id>
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