<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_07_0716247</id>
	<title>Incandescent Bulbs Return To the Cutting Edge</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1246957740000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://ltleegtltatgtltlee-phillips.orggt/" rel="nofollow">lee1</a> writes <i>"A law in the US that is due to take effect in 2012 mandates such tough efficiency
standards for lightbulbs that it has been assumed, until recently, that
it would kill off the incandescent bulb. Instead, the law has become a
case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical
innovation. For example, new incandescent technology from Philips  that
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/business/energy-environment/06bulbs.html">seals the traditional filament inside a small capsule</a> (which itself is
contained within the familiar bulb). The capsule has a coating that
reflects heat back to the filament, where it is partially converted to
light. The sophisticated ($5.00) bulbs are about 30\% more efficient than the
old-fashioned ($0.25) kind, and should last about three times as long.
So they are less economical than compact fluorescents, but should emit a
more pleasing spectrum, not contain mercury, and, one supposes, present
the utility company with a more desirable <a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/08/2125250&amp;tid=232">power factor</a>."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>lee1 writes " A law in the US that is due to take effect in 2012 mandates such tough efficiency standards for lightbulbs that it has been assumed , until recently , that it would kill off the incandescent bulb .
Instead , the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical innovation .
For example , new incandescent technology from Philips that seals the traditional filament inside a small capsule ( which itself is contained within the familiar bulb ) .
The capsule has a coating that reflects heat back to the filament , where it is partially converted to light .
The sophisticated ( $ 5.00 ) bulbs are about 30 \ % more efficient than the old-fashioned ( $ 0.25 ) kind , and should last about three times as long .
So they are less economical than compact fluorescents , but should emit a more pleasing spectrum , not contain mercury , and , one supposes , present the utility company with a more desirable power factor .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>lee1 writes "A law in the US that is due to take effect in 2012 mandates such tough efficiency
standards for lightbulbs that it has been assumed, until recently, that
it would kill off the incandescent bulb.
Instead, the law has become a
case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical
innovation.
For example, new incandescent technology from Philips  that
seals the traditional filament inside a small capsule (which itself is
contained within the familiar bulb).
The capsule has a coating that
reflects heat back to the filament, where it is partially converted to
light.
The sophisticated ($5.00) bulbs are about 30\% more efficient than the
old-fashioned ($0.25) kind, and should last about three times as long.
So they are less economical than compact fluorescents, but should emit a
more pleasing spectrum, not contain mercury, and, one supposes, present
the utility company with a more desirable power factor.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605857</id>
	<title>Re:30\% efficiency gain is even easier:</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1246968840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Way ahead of you, way ahead...</p><p>There are many appliances where you simply can't replace old fashion bulbs with halogen or others. Either there is not enough room for the (usually larger) halogen bulbs, the socket can't supply enough power, or a lot of other reasons why people would prefer old fashion bulbs.</p><p>The EU is pushing to phase out the bulbs, too. Actually a law has been passed afaik. And I'm stocking up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Way ahead of you , way ahead...There are many appliances where you simply ca n't replace old fashion bulbs with halogen or others .
Either there is not enough room for the ( usually larger ) halogen bulbs , the socket ca n't supply enough power , or a lot of other reasons why people would prefer old fashion bulbs.The EU is pushing to phase out the bulbs , too .
Actually a law has been passed afaik .
And I 'm stocking up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Way ahead of you, way ahead...There are many appliances where you simply can't replace old fashion bulbs with halogen or others.
Either there is not enough room for the (usually larger) halogen bulbs, the socket can't supply enough power, or a lot of other reasons why people would prefer old fashion bulbs.The EU is pushing to phase out the bulbs, too.
Actually a law has been passed afaik.
And I'm stocking up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28608631</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246983360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think its odd that while people are bitching left and right about the tiny amount of mercury in CFL's they dont seem to give a wit about all the old CRT teevees people are setting by the curb for the trashman. This is already illegal in most places but noone seems to want to do anything about it.</p><p>Lead is bad too ya know.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think its odd that while people are bitching left and right about the tiny amount of mercury in CFL 's they dont seem to give a wit about all the old CRT teevees people are setting by the curb for the trashman .
This is already illegal in most places but noone seems to want to do anything about it.Lead is bad too ya know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think its odd that while people are bitching left and right about the tiny amount of mercury in CFL's they dont seem to give a wit about all the old CRT teevees people are setting by the curb for the trashman.
This is already illegal in most places but noone seems to want to do anything about it.Lead is bad too ya know.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28611769</id>
	<title>Wait a minute,</title>
	<author>Khashishi</author>
	<datestamp>1246995480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is just a halogen bulb, right?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just a halogen bulb , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just a halogen bulb, right?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606067</id>
	<title>Visually handicapped</title>
	<author>jlar</author>
	<datestamp>1246971120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People with reduced vision often prefer incandescent light bulbs (at least that is what I have heard). The reason is that they can see better with these bulbs. It must be due to the difference in light spectra between the incandescent and CFLs. Hopefully these new inventions will allow people with reduced vision to see brightly after 2012;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People with reduced vision often prefer incandescent light bulbs ( at least that is what I have heard ) .
The reason is that they can see better with these bulbs .
It must be due to the difference in light spectra between the incandescent and CFLs .
Hopefully these new inventions will allow people with reduced vision to see brightly after 2012 ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People with reduced vision often prefer incandescent light bulbs (at least that is what I have heard).
The reason is that they can see better with these bulbs.
It must be due to the difference in light spectra between the incandescent and CFLs.
Hopefully these new inventions will allow people with reduced vision to see brightly after 2012;-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605781</id>
	<title>Re:lasers?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246967820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm wondering what the hell the federal government is doing mandating what kinds of light bulbs we can buy and use?!?!<p>
What's next...federal mandates on underwear design?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm wondering what the hell the federal government is doing mandating what kinds of light bulbs we can buy and use ? ! ? !
What 's next...federal mandates on underwear design ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm wondering what the hell the federal government is doing mandating what kinds of light bulbs we can buy and use?!?!
What's next...federal mandates on underwear design?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605511</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246962960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> The "mercury" issue should be easily solved by disposing the bulbs in the correct way</p><p>Breakage - accidents happen in the home, office and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...... car(?) OK forget the car for now. the is the list of steps to safely dispose of broken CFL coils (bulbs) -</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Before Clean-up: Ventilate the Room</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1. Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2. Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3. Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4. Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5. Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6. Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes and place them in the glass jar or plastic bag.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 7. Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8. Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 9. Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 10. If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 11. Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Disposal of Clean-up Materials</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 12. Immediately place all cleanup materials outside the building in a trash container or outdoor protected area for the next normal trash.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 13. Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 14. Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area. Some states prohibit such trash disposal and require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug: Ventilate the Room During and After Vacuuming</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 15. The next several times you vacuum, shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window prior to vacuuming.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 16. Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.</p><p>a great way to spend the afternoon, huh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The " mercury " issue should be easily solved by disposing the bulbs in the correct wayBreakage - accidents happen in the home , office and ..... .
car ( ? ) OK forget the car for now .
the is the list of steps to safely dispose of broken CFL coils ( bulbs ) -       Before Clean-up : Ventilate the Room       1 .
Have people and pets leave the room , and do n't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out .
      2 .
Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more .
      3 .
Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system , if you have one .
            Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces       4 .
Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid ( such as a canning jar ) or in a sealed plastic bag .
      5 .
Use sticky tape , such as duct tape , to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder .
      6 .
Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes and place them in the glass jar or plastic bag .
      7 .
Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces .
            Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug       8 .
Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid ( such as a canning jar ) or in a sealed plastic bag .
      9 .
Use sticky tape , such as duct tape , to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder .
    10 .
If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed , vacuum the area where the bulb was broken .
    11 .
Remove the vacuum bag ( or empty and wipe the canister ) , and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag .
            Disposal of Clean-up Materials     12 .
Immediately place all cleanup materials outside the building in a trash container or outdoor protected area for the next normal trash .
    13 .
Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials .
    14 .
Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area .
Some states prohibit such trash disposal and require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center .
            Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug : Ventilate the Room During and After Vacuuming     15 .
The next several times you vacuum , shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window prior to vacuuming .
    16 .
Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.a great way to spend the afternoon , huh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The "mercury" issue should be easily solved by disposing the bulbs in the correct wayBreakage - accidents happen in the home, office and ......
car(?) OK forget the car for now.
the is the list of steps to safely dispose of broken CFL coils (bulbs) -
      Before Clean-up: Ventilate the Room
      1.
Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out.
      2.
Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more.
      3.
Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.
            Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces
      4.
Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.
      5.
Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.
      6.
Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes and place them in the glass jar or plastic bag.
      7.
Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces.
            Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug
      8.
Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.
      9.
Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.
    10.
If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken.
    11.
Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag.
            Disposal of Clean-up Materials
    12.
Immediately place all cleanup materials outside the building in a trash container or outdoor protected area for the next normal trash.
    13.
Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials.
    14.
Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area.
Some states prohibit such trash disposal and require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center.
            Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug: Ventilate the Room During and After Vacuuming
    15.
The next several times you vacuum, shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window prior to vacuuming.
    16.
Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.a great way to spend the afternoon, huh?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605299</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606727</id>
	<title>Re:lasers?</title>
	<author>OakDragon</author>
	<datestamp>1246975620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical innovation</p></div>
</blockquote><p>Maybe Congress should mandate warp drive, since it's so good at inspiring technical innovation?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical innovation Maybe Congress should mandate warp drive , since it 's so good at inspiring technical innovation ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical innovation
Maybe Congress should mandate warp drive, since it's so good at inspiring technical innovation?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605781</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605291</id>
	<title>lasers?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246961640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There was an article a month or so ago about how this guy used lasers to (I'm guessing) increase the surface area on the filament, thus increasing efficiency by something like 40\%.</p><p><a href="http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=3385" title="rochester.edu" rel="nofollow">http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=3385</a> [rochester.edu]</p><p>Maybe both can be used for a super-lightbulb?</p><p>-xed</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There was an article a month or so ago about how this guy used lasers to ( I 'm guessing ) increase the surface area on the filament , thus increasing efficiency by something like 40 \ % .http : //www.rochester.edu/news/show.php ? id = 3385 [ rochester.edu ] Maybe both can be used for a super-lightbulb ? -xed</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There was an article a month or so ago about how this guy used lasers to (I'm guessing) increase the surface area on the filament, thus increasing efficiency by something like 40\%.http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=3385 [rochester.edu]Maybe both can be used for a super-lightbulb?-xed</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607067</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246977540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> The "mercury" issue should be easily solved by disposing the bulbs in the correct way</p><p>Breakage - accidents happen in the home, office and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...... car(?) OK forget the car for now. the is the list of steps to safely dispose of broken CFL coils (bulbs) -</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Before Clean-up: Ventilate the Room</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1. Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2. Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3. Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4. Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5. Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6. Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes and place them in the glass jar or plastic bag.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 7. Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8. Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 9. Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 10. If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 11. Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Disposal of Clean-up Materials</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 12. Immediately place all cleanup materials outside the building in a trash container or outdoor protected area for the next normal trash.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 13. Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 14. Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area. Some states prohibit such trash disposal and require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug: Ventilate the Room During and After Vacuuming</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 15. The next several times you vacuum, shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window prior to vacuuming.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 16. Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.</p><p>a great way to spend the afternoon, huh?</p></div><p>Dentists have been putting mercury in our mouths for as long as they're have been silver fillings, why the hell do I have to do all this crap "to be safe" when a CFL has less mercury than a single filling?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The " mercury " issue should be easily solved by disposing the bulbs in the correct wayBreakage - accidents happen in the home , office and ..... .
car ( ? ) OK forget the car for now .
the is the list of steps to safely dispose of broken CFL coils ( bulbs ) -       Before Clean-up : Ventilate the Room       1 .
Have people and pets leave the room , and do n't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out .
      2 .
Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more .
      3 .
Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system , if you have one .
            Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces       4 .
Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid ( such as a canning jar ) or in a sealed plastic bag .
      5 .
Use sticky tape , such as duct tape , to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder .
      6 .
Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes and place them in the glass jar or plastic bag .
      7 .
Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces .
            Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug       8 .
Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid ( such as a canning jar ) or in a sealed plastic bag .
      9 .
Use sticky tape , such as duct tape , to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder .
    10 .
If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed , vacuum the area where the bulb was broken .
    11 .
Remove the vacuum bag ( or empty and wipe the canister ) , and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag .
            Disposal of Clean-up Materials     12 .
Immediately place all cleanup materials outside the building in a trash container or outdoor protected area for the next normal trash .
    13 .
Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials .
    14 .
Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area .
Some states prohibit such trash disposal and require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center .
            Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug : Ventilate the Room During and After Vacuuming     15 .
The next several times you vacuum , shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window prior to vacuuming .
    16 .
Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.a great way to spend the afternoon , huh ? Dentists have been putting mercury in our mouths for as long as they 're have been silver fillings , why the hell do I have to do all this crap " to be safe " when a CFL has less mercury than a single filling ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The "mercury" issue should be easily solved by disposing the bulbs in the correct wayBreakage - accidents happen in the home, office and ......
car(?) OK forget the car for now.
the is the list of steps to safely dispose of broken CFL coils (bulbs) -
      Before Clean-up: Ventilate the Room
      1.
Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out.
      2.
Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more.
      3.
Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.
            Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces
      4.
Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.
      5.
Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.
      6.
Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes and place them in the glass jar or plastic bag.
      7.
Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces.
            Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug
      8.
Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.
      9.
Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.
    10.
If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken.
    11.
Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag.
            Disposal of Clean-up Materials
    12.
Immediately place all cleanup materials outside the building in a trash container or outdoor protected area for the next normal trash.
    13.
Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials.
    14.
Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area.
Some states prohibit such trash disposal and require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center.
            Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug: Ventilate the Room During and After Vacuuming
    15.
The next several times you vacuum, shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window prior to vacuuming.
    16.
Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.a great way to spend the afternoon, huh?Dentists have been putting mercury in our mouths for as long as they're have been silver fillings, why the hell do I have to do all this crap "to be safe" when a CFL has less mercury than a single filling?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28618957</id>
	<title>Re:Light Bulbs...The LEAST of our worries</title>
	<author>Atario</author>
	<datestamp>1247043960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So what is your point?  That because there are devices that use more energy than light bulbs, everyone should refrain from upgrading light bulbs and the technology behind them?</p><p>Gee, sorry if the progress offended you, we'll make sure to prohibit further work on it from now on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So what is your point ?
That because there are devices that use more energy than light bulbs , everyone should refrain from upgrading light bulbs and the technology behind them ? Gee , sorry if the progress offended you , we 'll make sure to prohibit further work on it from now on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what is your point?
That because there are devices that use more energy than light bulbs, everyone should refrain from upgrading light bulbs and the technology behind them?Gee, sorry if the progress offended you, we'll make sure to prohibit further work on it from now on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28608005</id>
	<title>Re:Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246980900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After using the CFL's myself, I'd agree with most of it, except for two locations. Kitchen and Bathroom. The CFL Light is HORRIBLE in those locations, for a number of reasons, the least of which being that humans just don't look natural and alive in CFL Light (yes, even the supposed "warm" and "good" ones.) It's too clinical and forced yellow/brownish. Another thing is in the kitchen, while the light seems to be acceptable for general use, I've noticed that the spectrum lacks a certian area around where meat is viewed. It's a bit harder to tell if the meat you're cooking is raw or not. The red of raw steak is reduced to what looks about right for cooked beef. Sure there are other methods of telling when steak is done, but you can't deny that visual inspection is an important one. Luckily I have under cabinet Halogen lights that seem to work fairly well for this so it's not as big of a deal for me, but not everyone has that.</p><p>Personally I hate CFLs, but I still use them as they're a necessary evil and work fine in certian locations (sheds, attics, outdoor lights, etc...) But there are places that just should never be forced to convert.</p><p>Also, I have to ask, how many lights do you really have on?? I mean, seriously that's like step number one. In any given night, I run two, maybe three 40 watt bulbs average. For about an hour and a half, the kitchen old school fluorescent is on. That's about it. So total I'm using like maybe 0.25-0.35 kwh a night. Sure, I know with some properly placed LED Lighting would probably help, but I'm more worried about the vaccuum cleaner, 2 pc's w/monitors (mine and my wife's), TV, etc...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After using the CFL 's myself , I 'd agree with most of it , except for two locations .
Kitchen and Bathroom .
The CFL Light is HORRIBLE in those locations , for a number of reasons , the least of which being that humans just do n't look natural and alive in CFL Light ( yes , even the supposed " warm " and " good " ones .
) It 's too clinical and forced yellow/brownish .
Another thing is in the kitchen , while the light seems to be acceptable for general use , I 've noticed that the spectrum lacks a certian area around where meat is viewed .
It 's a bit harder to tell if the meat you 're cooking is raw or not .
The red of raw steak is reduced to what looks about right for cooked beef .
Sure there are other methods of telling when steak is done , but you ca n't deny that visual inspection is an important one .
Luckily I have under cabinet Halogen lights that seem to work fairly well for this so it 's not as big of a deal for me , but not everyone has that.Personally I hate CFLs , but I still use them as they 're a necessary evil and work fine in certian locations ( sheds , attics , outdoor lights , etc... ) But there are places that just should never be forced to convert.Also , I have to ask , how many lights do you really have on ? ?
I mean , seriously that 's like step number one .
In any given night , I run two , maybe three 40 watt bulbs average .
For about an hour and a half , the kitchen old school fluorescent is on .
That 's about it .
So total I 'm using like maybe 0.25-0.35 kwh a night .
Sure , I know with some properly placed LED Lighting would probably help , but I 'm more worried about the vaccuum cleaner , 2 pc 's w/monitors ( mine and my wife 's ) , TV , etc.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After using the CFL's myself, I'd agree with most of it, except for two locations.
Kitchen and Bathroom.
The CFL Light is HORRIBLE in those locations, for a number of reasons, the least of which being that humans just don't look natural and alive in CFL Light (yes, even the supposed "warm" and "good" ones.
) It's too clinical and forced yellow/brownish.
Another thing is in the kitchen, while the light seems to be acceptable for general use, I've noticed that the spectrum lacks a certian area around where meat is viewed.
It's a bit harder to tell if the meat you're cooking is raw or not.
The red of raw steak is reduced to what looks about right for cooked beef.
Sure there are other methods of telling when steak is done, but you can't deny that visual inspection is an important one.
Luckily I have under cabinet Halogen lights that seem to work fairly well for this so it's not as big of a deal for me, but not everyone has that.Personally I hate CFLs, but I still use them as they're a necessary evil and work fine in certian locations (sheds, attics, outdoor lights, etc...) But there are places that just should never be forced to convert.Also, I have to ask, how many lights do you really have on??
I mean, seriously that's like step number one.
In any given night, I run two, maybe three 40 watt bulbs average.
For about an hour and a half, the kitchen old school fluorescent is on.
That's about it.
So total I'm using like maybe 0.25-0.35 kwh a night.
Sure, I know with some properly placed LED Lighting would probably help, but I'm more worried about the vaccuum cleaner, 2 pc's w/monitors (mine and my wife's), TV, etc...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605625</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605403</id>
	<title>flouro bulbs don't last</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246962900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>flouro bulbs always break a lot quicker than conventional bulbs. I have found this in at least the last 6 houses I have lived in, so it's no good blaming it on the electrics as some had been newly rewired etc. How does this impact the 'energy savings'? I bet that it more than undoes the good done by using them! Never mind the cost!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>flouro bulbs always break a lot quicker than conventional bulbs .
I have found this in at least the last 6 houses I have lived in , so it 's no good blaming it on the electrics as some had been newly rewired etc .
How does this impact the 'energy savings ' ?
I bet that it more than undoes the good done by using them !
Never mind the cost !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>flouro bulbs always break a lot quicker than conventional bulbs.
I have found this in at least the last 6 houses I have lived in, so it's no good blaming it on the electrics as some had been newly rewired etc.
How does this impact the 'energy savings'?
I bet that it more than undoes the good done by using them!
Never mind the cost!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609531</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>greyhueofdoubt</author>
	<datestamp>1246986840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;Way out of my way.</p><p>So, what, Home Depot delivers them to your door when you need them or something? Save up a few of them and then in 5 years when you need more drop them off at the same place you buy them.</p><p>-b</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; Way out of my way.So , what , Home Depot delivers them to your door when you need them or something ?
Save up a few of them and then in 5 years when you need more drop them off at the same place you buy them.-b</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;Way out of my way.So, what, Home Depot delivers them to your door when you need them or something?
Save up a few of them and then in 5 years when you need more drop them off at the same place you buy them.-b</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605655</id>
	<title>Better be right about the longetivity.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246965900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone with dimmers, this is great news. I just hope they aren't pulling the expected lifetime figure out of their arse. I've used tried using CFL's (on non dimmers!) for about 6 years on/off, they're less reliable, despite the claims, than a simple incandescent in my experience. They seem to last about 70\% as long, regardless of the brand/size.</p><p>Factor in their massively increased manufacturing/disposal cost, increased size/weight (affects transport efficiency) alongside their shorter life span (in my exp) and I think they're far, far, worse for the environment and terrible value for money.</p><p>But hey, environmentalists and politicians couldn't give a shit about reality - they just like having bandwagons to sneer at us from. The solution isn't more complicated bulbs it's putting a lid on the hippies and building more reactors asap.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone with dimmers , this is great news .
I just hope they are n't pulling the expected lifetime figure out of their arse .
I 've used tried using CFL 's ( on non dimmers !
) for about 6 years on/off , they 're less reliable , despite the claims , than a simple incandescent in my experience .
They seem to last about 70 \ % as long , regardless of the brand/size.Factor in their massively increased manufacturing/disposal cost , increased size/weight ( affects transport efficiency ) alongside their shorter life span ( in my exp ) and I think they 're far , far , worse for the environment and terrible value for money.But hey , environmentalists and politicians could n't give a shit about reality - they just like having bandwagons to sneer at us from .
The solution is n't more complicated bulbs it 's putting a lid on the hippies and building more reactors asap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone with dimmers, this is great news.
I just hope they aren't pulling the expected lifetime figure out of their arse.
I've used tried using CFL's (on non dimmers!
) for about 6 years on/off, they're less reliable, despite the claims, than a simple incandescent in my experience.
They seem to last about 70\% as long, regardless of the brand/size.Factor in their massively increased manufacturing/disposal cost, increased size/weight (affects transport efficiency) alongside their shorter life span (in my exp) and I think they're far, far, worse for the environment and terrible value for money.But hey, environmentalists and politicians couldn't give a shit about reality - they just like having bandwagons to sneer at us from.
The solution isn't more complicated bulbs it's putting a lid on the hippies and building more reactors asap.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606363</id>
	<title>Re:I'm sorry but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246973280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indeed so. If "30\% more efficient" means they produce 30\% more light for the same energy input, that's still poor compared to a CFL (300\% more). If it means they only need 70\% of the electricity for the same light, then CFL only needs 25\% of the electricity.</p><p>Either way, what's the point?  Granted, the warmup time of CFLs is a bit annoying, but tolerable. The only other issue is that fittings are not designed to work well with a typical CFL shape, so the light pattern can be a bit wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed so .
If " 30 \ % more efficient " means they produce 30 \ % more light for the same energy input , that 's still poor compared to a CFL ( 300 \ % more ) .
If it means they only need 70 \ % of the electricity for the same light , then CFL only needs 25 \ % of the electricity.Either way , what 's the point ?
Granted , the warmup time of CFLs is a bit annoying , but tolerable .
The only other issue is that fittings are not designed to work well with a typical CFL shape , so the light pattern can be a bit wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed so.
If "30\% more efficient" means they produce 30\% more light for the same energy input, that's still poor compared to a CFL (300\% more).
If it means they only need 70\% of the electricity for the same light, then CFL only needs 25\% of the electricity.Either way, what's the point?
Granted, the warmup time of CFLs is a bit annoying, but tolerable.
The only other issue is that fittings are not designed to work well with a typical CFL shape, so the light pattern can be a bit wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28612189</id>
	<title>It's not a technology breakthrough.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246997220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a marketing breakthrough.<br>A technological breakthrough would be a lamp that is 30\% more efficient, costs 1/2 as much as the standard lamp, and lasts 10x as long.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a marketing breakthrough.A technological breakthrough would be a lamp that is 30 \ % more efficient , costs 1/2 as much as the standard lamp , and lasts 10x as long .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a marketing breakthrough.A technological breakthrough would be a lamp that is 30\% more efficient, costs 1/2 as much as the standard lamp, and lasts 10x as long.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609497</id>
	<title>Re:Lame</title>
	<author>SydShamino</author>
	<datestamp>1246986660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>o.. and why does my car from 1997 get the same MPG as all the new ones that don't have massive arrays of lead acid battery's?</p></div><p>Because in the absence of government regulation, the market did what it does best - nothing that won't return a solid ROI within six months!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>o.. and why does my car from 1997 get the same MPG as all the new ones that do n't have massive arrays of lead acid battery 's ? Because in the absence of government regulation , the market did what it does best - nothing that wo n't return a solid ROI within six months !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>o.. and why does my car from 1997 get the same MPG as all the new ones that don't have massive arrays of lead acid battery's?Because in the absence of government regulation, the market did what it does best - nothing that won't return a solid ROI within six months!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28612061</id>
	<title>Re:Light Bulbs...The LEAST of our worries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246996680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pool? Server farm? What percentage of people have those, exactly? Furthermore, your 60W assumes one light bulb... I don't know about you, but there's more than 1 light bulb in my house.</p><p>Lighting is not negligible, by any means. But I can't imagine why you'd need both A/C and a dryer... if it's hot enough to need A/C, it's hot enough to use a washing line.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pool ?
Server farm ?
What percentage of people have those , exactly ?
Furthermore , your 60W assumes one light bulb... I do n't know about you , but there 's more than 1 light bulb in my house.Lighting is not negligible , by any means .
But I ca n't imagine why you 'd need both A/C and a dryer... if it 's hot enough to need A/C , it 's hot enough to use a washing line .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pool?
Server farm?
What percentage of people have those, exactly?
Furthermore, your 60W assumes one light bulb... I don't know about you, but there's more than 1 light bulb in my house.Lighting is not negligible, by any means.
But I can't imagine why you'd need both A/C and a dryer... if it's hot enough to need A/C, it's hot enough to use a washing line.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609783</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246987860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"a great way to spend the afternoon, huh?"</p><p>Or you could just realize that the dangers of this tiny amount of mercury are vastly overstated &amp; this cleanup process was obviously written up by insurance lawyers.</p><p>Do you call out the EPA every time you spill a couple drops of gasoline? Yea me either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" a great way to spend the afternoon , huh ?
" Or you could just realize that the dangers of this tiny amount of mercury are vastly overstated &amp; this cleanup process was obviously written up by insurance lawyers.Do you call out the EPA every time you spill a couple drops of gasoline ?
Yea me either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"a great way to spend the afternoon, huh?
"Or you could just realize that the dangers of this tiny amount of mercury are vastly overstated &amp; this cleanup process was obviously written up by insurance lawyers.Do you call out the EPA every time you spill a couple drops of gasoline?
Yea me either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609629</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>greyhueofdoubt</author>
	<datestamp>1246987200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most of those steps also technically apply for many things in the home whose hazards we simply take for granted. I work with a lot of hazmat stuff, and we need to have MSDS's for substances that, although commonly found in the home, need documentation in an industrial setting.</p><p>So what I end up reading can be an MSDS for technical grade isopropyl alcohol that sounds like cleanup procedures and symptoms for VX gas.</p><p>Same applies to anything with lead, cadmium, beryllium, etc in the metals dept.</p><p>CFL might be a pain to clean up (if you even go to the trouble) but a CFL will never melt your face. I'd rather have a broken CFL than a burst can of oven cleaner.</p><p>-b</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of those steps also technically apply for many things in the home whose hazards we simply take for granted .
I work with a lot of hazmat stuff , and we need to have MSDS 's for substances that , although commonly found in the home , need documentation in an industrial setting.So what I end up reading can be an MSDS for technical grade isopropyl alcohol that sounds like cleanup procedures and symptoms for VX gas.Same applies to anything with lead , cadmium , beryllium , etc in the metals dept.CFL might be a pain to clean up ( if you even go to the trouble ) but a CFL will never melt your face .
I 'd rather have a broken CFL than a burst can of oven cleaner.-b</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of those steps also technically apply for many things in the home whose hazards we simply take for granted.
I work with a lot of hazmat stuff, and we need to have MSDS's for substances that, although commonly found in the home, need documentation in an industrial setting.So what I end up reading can be an MSDS for technical grade isopropyl alcohol that sounds like cleanup procedures and symptoms for VX gas.Same applies to anything with lead, cadmium, beryllium, etc in the metals dept.CFL might be a pain to clean up (if you even go to the trouble) but a CFL will never melt your face.
I'd rather have a broken CFL than a burst can of oven cleaner.-b</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606919</id>
	<title>Planned Obsolescence</title>
	<author>Ikonoclasm</author>
	<datestamp>1246976700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'd think they'd have accidentally stumbled across more efficient means of making incandescent bulbs while researching methods planned obsolescence in their bulbs. Edison's bulb is still working, but the ones sold in stores burn out within a year? Call me cynical, but the tech to lake long-lasting bulbs has been around for over a century.</p><p>The market was willing to except cheap, crappy little bulbs because they burn out infrequently enough that no one realizes just how much they spend on them over the years, but frequently enough that you spend more on those crappy cheapo bulbs than if the manufacturers actually sold more expensive, quality long-lasting bulbs.</p><p>If it weren't for the emergence of a competing technology, we'd still be suffering through the annoyance of those dinky bulbs and there'd be no calls for further innovation. Makes you wonder what other household items are crap due to technological complacency.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'd think they 'd have accidentally stumbled across more efficient means of making incandescent bulbs while researching methods planned obsolescence in their bulbs .
Edison 's bulb is still working , but the ones sold in stores burn out within a year ?
Call me cynical , but the tech to lake long-lasting bulbs has been around for over a century.The market was willing to except cheap , crappy little bulbs because they burn out infrequently enough that no one realizes just how much they spend on them over the years , but frequently enough that you spend more on those crappy cheapo bulbs than if the manufacturers actually sold more expensive , quality long-lasting bulbs.If it were n't for the emergence of a competing technology , we 'd still be suffering through the annoyance of those dinky bulbs and there 'd be no calls for further innovation .
Makes you wonder what other household items are crap due to technological complacency .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'd think they'd have accidentally stumbled across more efficient means of making incandescent bulbs while researching methods planned obsolescence in their bulbs.
Edison's bulb is still working, but the ones sold in stores burn out within a year?
Call me cynical, but the tech to lake long-lasting bulbs has been around for over a century.The market was willing to except cheap, crappy little bulbs because they burn out infrequently enough that no one realizes just how much they spend on them over the years, but frequently enough that you spend more on those crappy cheapo bulbs than if the manufacturers actually sold more expensive, quality long-lasting bulbs.If it weren't for the emergence of a competing technology, we'd still be suffering through the annoyance of those dinky bulbs and there'd be no calls for further innovation.
Makes you wonder what other household items are crap due to technological complacency.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609823</id>
	<title>A couple other ideas</title>
	<author>TomRC</author>
	<datestamp>1246988040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about making the reflective envelope elliptical in cross section, putting the filament at one focus and a yttrium "mantle" filament at the 2nd focus?  If I've wikigoogled the facts right, the filament is heated to around 6000degC, and a mantle will glow at around 2000degC.   Reflecting heat onto the filament raises its temp, making it a more efficient light emitter - but doesn't increase the light emitting surface area.  But maybe with a second filament, more heat energy would be converted to light than is gained by the increased efficiency of the method in the article?</p><p>Or maybe just wrap the tungsten filament with yttrium - larger surface area to glow, but lower conductivity than the filament (~10x higher resistance than tungsten) so it doesn't increase current much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about making the reflective envelope elliptical in cross section , putting the filament at one focus and a yttrium " mantle " filament at the 2nd focus ?
If I 've wikigoogled the facts right , the filament is heated to around 6000degC , and a mantle will glow at around 2000degC .
Reflecting heat onto the filament raises its temp , making it a more efficient light emitter - but does n't increase the light emitting surface area .
But maybe with a second filament , more heat energy would be converted to light than is gained by the increased efficiency of the method in the article ? Or maybe just wrap the tungsten filament with yttrium - larger surface area to glow , but lower conductivity than the filament ( ~ 10x higher resistance than tungsten ) so it does n't increase current much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about making the reflective envelope elliptical in cross section, putting the filament at one focus and a yttrium "mantle" filament at the 2nd focus?
If I've wikigoogled the facts right, the filament is heated to around 6000degC, and a mantle will glow at around 2000degC.
Reflecting heat onto the filament raises its temp, making it a more efficient light emitter - but doesn't increase the light emitting surface area.
But maybe with a second filament, more heat energy would be converted to light than is gained by the increased efficiency of the method in the article?Or maybe just wrap the tungsten filament with yttrium - larger surface area to glow, but lower conductivity than the filament (~10x higher resistance than tungsten) so it doesn't increase current much.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609507</id>
	<title>Ways around ....</title>
	<author>DaMattster</author>
	<datestamp>1246986720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are all kinds of ways to alter the spectrum of the light coming from a CFL bulb.  For example, just use frosted glass.  They even have CFL bulbs with warmer tints to the glass.  I find that argument bullshit.  Now the mercury factor and "real" wattage equivalency issues are another story altogether.  If an efficient way was developed to recycle the bulbs, the savings could still be really good when compared to traditional filament bulbs.  I use CFL bulbs on my security lighting and really like them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are all kinds of ways to alter the spectrum of the light coming from a CFL bulb .
For example , just use frosted glass .
They even have CFL bulbs with warmer tints to the glass .
I find that argument bullshit .
Now the mercury factor and " real " wattage equivalency issues are another story altogether .
If an efficient way was developed to recycle the bulbs , the savings could still be really good when compared to traditional filament bulbs .
I use CFL bulbs on my security lighting and really like them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are all kinds of ways to alter the spectrum of the light coming from a CFL bulb.
For example, just use frosted glass.
They even have CFL bulbs with warmer tints to the glass.
I find that argument bullshit.
Now the mercury factor and "real" wattage equivalency issues are another story altogether.
If an efficient way was developed to recycle the bulbs, the savings could still be really good when compared to traditional filament bulbs.
I use CFL bulbs on my security lighting and really like them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606009</id>
	<title>More Mercury with this Philips Bulb</title>
	<author>BBCWatcher</author>
	<datestamp>1246970520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In many or most countries, coal is the dominant fuel for electricity generation. Coal is chock full of mercury (and other nasty stuff besides). Use more electricity, as with this Philips bulb compared to CFLs, and there's more mercury released into the environment.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In many or most countries , coal is the dominant fuel for electricity generation .
Coal is chock full of mercury ( and other nasty stuff besides ) .
Use more electricity , as with this Philips bulb compared to CFLs , and there 's more mercury released into the environment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In many or most countries, coal is the dominant fuel for electricity generation.
Coal is chock full of mercury (and other nasty stuff besides).
Use more electricity, as with this Philips bulb compared to CFLs, and there's more mercury released into the environment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606153</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>hort\_wort</author>
	<datestamp>1246971960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a professor once who broke a large mercury thermometer in a university lab -- one that got well over 200 people going through it daily.  He called the EPA and asked them what to do about it.  They told him to just be quiet and soak it up with paper towels as best he could.  So of course he told us all about it.</p><p>Mercury is out there already.  People with all these paranoid procedures are just being political, it's a fad.  The only time I ever worry about mercury is when I go fishing in the local cesspool.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a professor once who broke a large mercury thermometer in a university lab -- one that got well over 200 people going through it daily .
He called the EPA and asked them what to do about it .
They told him to just be quiet and soak it up with paper towels as best he could .
So of course he told us all about it.Mercury is out there already .
People with all these paranoid procedures are just being political , it 's a fad .
The only time I ever worry about mercury is when I go fishing in the local cesspool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a professor once who broke a large mercury thermometer in a university lab -- one that got well over 200 people going through it daily.
He called the EPA and asked them what to do about it.
They told him to just be quiet and soak it up with paper towels as best he could.
So of course he told us all about it.Mercury is out there already.
People with all these paranoid procedures are just being political, it's a fad.
The only time I ever worry about mercury is when I go fishing in the local cesspool.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605851</id>
	<title>comparison</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246968720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this has been around in 12V DC bulbs for years, it's just a halogen lamp with reflective IR coating.<br>they do cheat abi about the 30\% savings though:</p><p>EAN:         4008321917300<br>Typen-Bezeichnung:         Osram Classic A 42W 64543 ES E27 matt Halogen Energy Saver fr<br>Lampenleistung:         42 W<br>Lichtstrom:         630 lm</p><p>vs:</p><p>EAN:            4050300005485<br>Typen-Bezeichnung:         Osram  CLASSIC A CLAS A FR 60W 230V E27 matt<br>Lampenleistung:         60 W<br>Lichtstrom:         710 lm</p><p>you do the math.<br>(maybe they consider their classic bulb higher then average as well, compared to a really old bulb<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p><p>also worth to note that here in germany you can get them for around 2EUR (under 3USD).<br>++ c.</p><p>ps: sorry to add an offtopic rant here, but the engine to write comments here truely sucks!<br>(why cant i control white space? and why is this thing so damn slow?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this has been around in 12V DC bulbs for years , it 's just a halogen lamp with reflective IR coating.they do cheat abi about the 30 \ % savings though : EAN : 4008321917300Typen-Bezeichnung : Osram Classic A 42W 64543 ES E27 matt Halogen Energy Saver frLampenleistung : 42 WLichtstrom : 630 lmvs : EAN : 4050300005485Typen-Bezeichnung : Osram CLASSIC A CLAS A FR 60W 230V E27 mattLampenleistung : 60 WLichtstrom : 710 lmyou do the math .
( maybe they consider their classic bulb higher then average as well , compared to a really old bulb ; ) also worth to note that here in germany you can get them for around 2EUR ( under 3USD ) . + + c.ps : sorry to add an offtopic rant here , but the engine to write comments here truely sucks !
( why cant i control white space ?
and why is this thing so damn slow ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this has been around in 12V DC bulbs for years, it's just a halogen lamp with reflective IR coating.they do cheat abi about the 30\% savings though:EAN:         4008321917300Typen-Bezeichnung:         Osram Classic A 42W 64543 ES E27 matt Halogen Energy Saver frLampenleistung:         42 WLichtstrom:         630 lmvs:EAN:            4050300005485Typen-Bezeichnung:         Osram  CLASSIC A CLAS A FR 60W 230V E27 mattLampenleistung:         60 WLichtstrom:         710 lmyou do the math.
(maybe they consider their classic bulb higher then average as well, compared to a really old bulb ;)also worth to note that here in germany you can get them for around 2EUR (under 3USD).++ c.ps: sorry to add an offtopic rant here, but the engine to write comments here truely sucks!
(why cant i control white space?
and why is this thing so damn slow?
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606031</id>
	<title>Similarly...</title>
	<author>hyades1</author>
	<datestamp>1246970760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> The last major gas mileage increase in North American cars came as a result of legislation. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The last major gas mileage increase in North American cars came as a result of legislation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The last major gas mileage increase in North American cars came as a result of legislation. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607411</id>
	<title>Re:30\% efficiency gain is even easier:</title>
	<author>Sandbags</author>
	<datestamp>1246978800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... and still use more energy than CF, much more expensive than CF ($5 a bulb), and color quality is slightly degraded from Incandescent, competitive to recent CFs.</p><p>Warm up time on CFs is down to ~5-10 seconds, and they starty at about 75\% bright, so this is a real non-issue compared to ones 5 years ago.  The color temp range is now also available not only at the super cheap (get-what-you-pay-for) 2700K range, but up to and above 6000K as well.  In a really cold room (garrage in winter) they might take 30 seconds to warm up.</p><p>Cfs are also available in dimable as reasonable prices now too, and come in floodlight, spot, and other varieties up to 300w equiv luminocity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... and still use more energy than CF , much more expensive than CF ( $ 5 a bulb ) , and color quality is slightly degraded from Incandescent , competitive to recent CFs.Warm up time on CFs is down to ~ 5-10 seconds , and they starty at about 75 \ % bright , so this is a real non-issue compared to ones 5 years ago .
The color temp range is now also available not only at the super cheap ( get-what-you-pay-for ) 2700K range , but up to and above 6000K as well .
In a really cold room ( garrage in winter ) they might take 30 seconds to warm up.Cfs are also available in dimable as reasonable prices now too , and come in floodlight , spot , and other varieties up to 300w equiv luminocity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... and still use more energy than CF, much more expensive than CF ($5 a bulb), and color quality is slightly degraded from Incandescent, competitive to recent CFs.Warm up time on CFs is down to ~5-10 seconds, and they starty at about 75\% bright, so this is a real non-issue compared to ones 5 years ago.
The color temp range is now also available not only at the super cheap (get-what-you-pay-for) 2700K range, but up to and above 6000K as well.
In a really cold room (garrage in winter) they might take 30 seconds to warm up.Cfs are also available in dimable as reasonable prices now too, and come in floodlight, spot, and other varieties up to 300w equiv luminocity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610509</id>
	<title>Re:Too Little, Too Late</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246990860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>If we didn't have good CFLs, these new incandescents would be welcome. </i></p><p>We don't have good CFLs, ergo incandescents are welcome.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If we did n't have good CFLs , these new incandescents would be welcome .
We do n't have good CFLs , ergo incandescents are welcome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we didn't have good CFLs, these new incandescents would be welcome.
We don't have good CFLs, ergo incandescents are welcome.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606141</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28617139</id>
	<title>Thanks for the reminder...</title>
	<author>mpthompson</author>
	<datestamp>1246981800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been meaning to get the store to create my stash of hundreds of conventional/cheap light bulbs that I'll store in my attic -- enough to last two to four decades.  I can't stand CFLs and 2/3s of the fixtures in my house have conventional dimmers which helps with the lifetime of a standard bulb.  I figure the stash will also help the resale value of my house when I leave them for the new owner as well in a decade or two.  By then they should be a rare commodity.</p><p>Of course with things going they way they are in this country I envision a "Fahrenheit 451" scenario where jack booted government agents one day storm my house to relieve me of may light bulb stash.  Do you think prison time will be associated with being caught with such contraband, or will it just be a stint at a re-education camp?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been meaning to get the store to create my stash of hundreds of conventional/cheap light bulbs that I 'll store in my attic -- enough to last two to four decades .
I ca n't stand CFLs and 2/3s of the fixtures in my house have conventional dimmers which helps with the lifetime of a standard bulb .
I figure the stash will also help the resale value of my house when I leave them for the new owner as well in a decade or two .
By then they should be a rare commodity.Of course with things going they way they are in this country I envision a " Fahrenheit 451 " scenario where jack booted government agents one day storm my house to relieve me of may light bulb stash .
Do you think prison time will be associated with being caught with such contraband , or will it just be a stint at a re-education camp ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been meaning to get the store to create my stash of hundreds of conventional/cheap light bulbs that I'll store in my attic -- enough to last two to four decades.
I can't stand CFLs and 2/3s of the fixtures in my house have conventional dimmers which helps with the lifetime of a standard bulb.
I figure the stash will also help the resale value of my house when I leave them for the new owner as well in a decade or two.
By then they should be a rare commodity.Of course with things going they way they are in this country I envision a "Fahrenheit 451" scenario where jack booted government agents one day storm my house to relieve me of may light bulb stash.
Do you think prison time will be associated with being caught with such contraband, or will it just be a stint at a re-education camp?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28619389</id>
	<title>Re:Light Bulbs...The LEAST of our worries</title>
	<author>hab136</author>
	<datestamp>1247050260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Point here is there's a HELL of a lot MORE we can fine tune and adjust lifestyles around to save a hell of a lot more than that 60W light bulb that you don't even turn off when you leave a room anyway.</p></div></blockquote><p>When light bulbs burn out, people buy replacements.  It's fairly easy to convince them to buy CFL/Halogen instead of incandescent, because they were going to buy a light bulb anyways.</p><p>Convincing people to suddenly pop off $300 for a new dryer out of the blue or $1200 for a new central A/C on the promise that their electric bills will be lower in the future, is a much harder sell.  You're essentially telling them: Pay $1200 now and you'll get back $50 a month forever.  Well, that's a two-year payback.  Not only will a lot of people have trouble finding an "extra" $1200, but the savings are really hard to see; a $1200 drop in your bank account is very easy to see.  Same situation with the dryer - spend $300 now and get back $15/month forever.  This will take 20 months to break even, and in the meantime the owner is out $300.  Instead they can just wait until the old one breaks, and then buy the most energy efficient one available.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Point here is there 's a HELL of a lot MORE we can fine tune and adjust lifestyles around to save a hell of a lot more than that 60W light bulb that you do n't even turn off when you leave a room anyway.When light bulbs burn out , people buy replacements .
It 's fairly easy to convince them to buy CFL/Halogen instead of incandescent , because they were going to buy a light bulb anyways.Convincing people to suddenly pop off $ 300 for a new dryer out of the blue or $ 1200 for a new central A/C on the promise that their electric bills will be lower in the future , is a much harder sell .
You 're essentially telling them : Pay $ 1200 now and you 'll get back $ 50 a month forever .
Well , that 's a two-year payback .
Not only will a lot of people have trouble finding an " extra " $ 1200 , but the savings are really hard to see ; a $ 1200 drop in your bank account is very easy to see .
Same situation with the dryer - spend $ 300 now and get back $ 15/month forever .
This will take 20 months to break even , and in the meantime the owner is out $ 300 .
Instead they can just wait until the old one breaks , and then buy the most energy efficient one available .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Point here is there's a HELL of a lot MORE we can fine tune and adjust lifestyles around to save a hell of a lot more than that 60W light bulb that you don't even turn off when you leave a room anyway.When light bulbs burn out, people buy replacements.
It's fairly easy to convince them to buy CFL/Halogen instead of incandescent, because they were going to buy a light bulb anyways.Convincing people to suddenly pop off $300 for a new dryer out of the blue or $1200 for a new central A/C on the promise that their electric bills will be lower in the future, is a much harder sell.
You're essentially telling them: Pay $1200 now and you'll get back $50 a month forever.
Well, that's a two-year payback.
Not only will a lot of people have trouble finding an "extra" $1200, but the savings are really hard to see; a $1200 drop in your bank account is very easy to see.
Same situation with the dryer - spend $300 now and get back $15/month forever.
This will take 20 months to break even, and in the meantime the owner is out $300.
Instead they can just wait until the old one breaks, and then buy the most energy efficient one available.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606857</id>
	<title>Re:30\% efficiency gain is even easier:</title>
	<author>karnal</author>
	<datestamp>1246976340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yo, sup dawg, I herd you like lightbulbs, so I put a lightbulb in your lightbulb.....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yo , sup dawg , I herd you like lightbulbs , so I put a lightbulb in your lightbulb.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yo, sup dawg, I herd you like lightbulbs, so I put a lightbulb in your lightbulb.....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605299</id>
	<title>only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246961760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>and compact fluorescents are still more economical? why should we change then?<br> <br>just because of a more pleasing spectrum? The "mercury" issue should be easily solved by disposing the bulbs in the correct way (i.e. recycle).</htmltext>
<tokenext>and compact fluorescents are still more economical ?
why should we change then ?
just because of a more pleasing spectrum ?
The " mercury " issue should be easily solved by disposing the bulbs in the correct way ( i.e .
recycle ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and compact fluorescents are still more economical?
why should we change then?
just because of a more pleasing spectrum?
The "mercury" issue should be easily solved by disposing the bulbs in the correct way (i.e.
recycle).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28608213</id>
	<title>Innovation</title>
	<author>Bob-taro</author>
	<datestamp>1246981860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Instead, the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical innovation.</p></div><p>Just as new diseases can inspire medical innovation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead , the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical innovation.Just as new diseases can inspire medical innovation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead, the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical innovation.Just as new diseases can inspire medical innovation.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28617989</id>
	<title>Re:Lame</title>
	<author>paul248</author>
	<datestamp>1246989240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think this is what you mean by "microwave lighting":</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur\_lamp" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur\_lamp</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think this is what you mean by " microwave lighting " : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur \ _lamp [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think this is what you mean by "microwave lighting":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur\_lamp [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28608059</id>
	<title>I think I'll just....</title>
	<author>John Pfeiffer</author>
	<datestamp>1246981200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think I'm going to stick with my full-spectrum calibrated daylight CFLs for a bit longer, thanks.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;[  Since I'm sure a 'more pleasant' spectrum has more to do with some sort of psychotic reaction to new technology and less to do with color-correct viewing or 'real light' as I like to call it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think I 'm going to stick with my full-spectrum calibrated daylight CFLs for a bit longer , thanks .
; [ Since I 'm sure a 'more pleasant ' spectrum has more to do with some sort of psychotic reaction to new technology and less to do with color-correct viewing or 'real light ' as I like to call it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think I'm going to stick with my full-spectrum calibrated daylight CFLs for a bit longer, thanks.
;[  Since I'm sure a 'more pleasant' spectrum has more to do with some sort of psychotic reaction to new technology and less to do with color-correct viewing or 'real light' as I like to call it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607677</id>
	<title>Re:Similarly...</title>
	<author>Sandbags</author>
	<datestamp>1246979760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...and the Ford model T gets the equvalent average US fuel economy today...  This is compared to Europe where they get nearly double the mileage, and their gas powered cars outperform our best hybrid in both mileage and emissions/mile driven.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and the Ford model T gets the equvalent average US fuel economy today... This is compared to Europe where they get nearly double the mileage , and their gas powered cars outperform our best hybrid in both mileage and emissions/mile driven .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and the Ford model T gets the equvalent average US fuel economy today...  This is compared to Europe where they get nearly double the mileage, and their gas powered cars outperform our best hybrid in both mileage and emissions/mile driven.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606031</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605579</id>
	<title>I'm sorry but...</title>
	<author>cats2ndlife</author>
	<datestamp>1246964640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm sorry but this so called new technology is a farce. 30\% improvement in efficiency over 5\% efficiency is still just 8\% overall. At $5 apiece, which is way more then a CFL, which goes around $2.5 to $3.3 apiece, and it's 75\% efficiency, I'm going for CFL.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sorry but this so called new technology is a farce .
30 \ % improvement in efficiency over 5 \ % efficiency is still just 8 \ % overall .
At $ 5 apiece , which is way more then a CFL , which goes around $ 2.5 to $ 3.3 apiece , and it 's 75 \ % efficiency , I 'm going for CFL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sorry but this so called new technology is a farce.
30\% improvement in efficiency over 5\% efficiency is still just 8\% overall.
At $5 apiece, which is way more then a CFL, which goes around $2.5 to $3.3 apiece, and it's 75\% efficiency, I'm going for CFL.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605369</id>
	<title>Government Regulation</title>
	<author>sonicmerlin</author>
	<datestamp>1246962600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hope anti-government deregulation fanatics read articles like this to understand the benefits of proper government regulation.

Unfortunately, I suspect they'll find a way to misinterpret it, as all party zealots do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hope anti-government deregulation fanatics read articles like this to understand the benefits of proper government regulation .
Unfortunately , I suspect they 'll find a way to misinterpret it , as all party zealots do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hope anti-government deregulation fanatics read articles like this to understand the benefits of proper government regulation.
Unfortunately, I suspect they'll find a way to misinterpret it, as all party zealots do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610823</id>
	<title>Re:flouro bulbs don't last</title>
	<author>PitaBred</author>
	<datestamp>1246992060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What are you doing, juggling them? Really... what cases are you using a fluorescent where it breaks more often than an incandescent?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What are you doing , juggling them ?
Really... what cases are you using a fluorescent where it breaks more often than an incandescent ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What are you doing, juggling them?
Really... what cases are you using a fluorescent where it breaks more often than an incandescent?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605403</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605555</id>
	<title>Re:30\% efficiency gain is even easier:</title>
	<author>GargamelSpaceman</author>
	<datestamp>1246964460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe now is the time to stock up on incandescent bulbs and then sell them on the black market later for a tidy profit...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe now is the time to stock up on incandescent bulbs and then sell them on the black market later for a tidy profit.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe now is the time to stock up on incandescent bulbs and then sell them on the black market later for a tidy profit...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28611581</id>
	<title>Re:Strip lights</title>
	<author>kmac06</author>
	<datestamp>1246994820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't tell me what to like, you totalitarian bastard.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't tell me what to like , you totalitarian bastard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't tell me what to like, you totalitarian bastard.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605715</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605345</id>
	<title>30\% efficiency gain is even easier:</title>
	<author>Ihlosi</author>
	<datestamp>1246962420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Stick a halogen light bulb inside an incandescent light bulb. That's what they sell around here to replace incandescent bulbs once they're no longer sold. Nice spectrum, no warm-up time, longer lifetime than the incandescent bulb it replaces, 30\% less energy used compared to the incandescent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stick a halogen light bulb inside an incandescent light bulb .
That 's what they sell around here to replace incandescent bulbs once they 're no longer sold .
Nice spectrum , no warm-up time , longer lifetime than the incandescent bulb it replaces , 30 \ % less energy used compared to the incandescent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stick a halogen light bulb inside an incandescent light bulb.
That's what they sell around here to replace incandescent bulbs once they're no longer sold.
Nice spectrum, no warm-up time, longer lifetime than the incandescent bulb it replaces, 30\% less energy used compared to the incandescent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610605</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>infinite9</author>
	<datestamp>1246991280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When my wife and I first read these instructions way back, we laughed out loud, then decided never to buy CFLs.  Over the last 15 years, we've lost count of the number of light bulbs our kids have broken.  The idea of having each one be a potential (even likely) exposure to hazardous materials for the family and the house is just not acceptable.  We live in chicago.  Every time I read "open the windows for 15 minutes or more", my response is, "In January when it's -10?"  So much for energy savings.</p><p>I have so many what-ifs for this it's ridiculous.  What if it's January?  What if we have a bagless vacuum cleaner?  What if you don't see the breakage before a kid/pet gets into it?  (ever had broken glass from a lightbulb in your foot?  It's happened to all of us.)  What if you don't have the required jar or plastic bag handy?  What if you don't have the required tape handy?  What if the tape lifts the finish from your wood floors?  What if residue remains in your carpet?  What if you miss a spot cleaning?  What if you don't find the broken light in your kids' room until the next day?</p><p>I'm also a woodworker.  Incandescent light bulbs aren't just nice, they're required for some things.  Turning for example, creates a wagon-wheel effect from the flickering of florescent bulbs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When my wife and I first read these instructions way back , we laughed out loud , then decided never to buy CFLs .
Over the last 15 years , we 've lost count of the number of light bulbs our kids have broken .
The idea of having each one be a potential ( even likely ) exposure to hazardous materials for the family and the house is just not acceptable .
We live in chicago .
Every time I read " open the windows for 15 minutes or more " , my response is , " In January when it 's -10 ?
" So much for energy savings.I have so many what-ifs for this it 's ridiculous .
What if it 's January ?
What if we have a bagless vacuum cleaner ?
What if you do n't see the breakage before a kid/pet gets into it ?
( ever had broken glass from a lightbulb in your foot ?
It 's happened to all of us .
) What if you do n't have the required jar or plastic bag handy ?
What if you do n't have the required tape handy ?
What if the tape lifts the finish from your wood floors ?
What if residue remains in your carpet ?
What if you miss a spot cleaning ?
What if you do n't find the broken light in your kids ' room until the next day ? I 'm also a woodworker .
Incandescent light bulbs are n't just nice , they 're required for some things .
Turning for example , creates a wagon-wheel effect from the flickering of florescent bulbs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When my wife and I first read these instructions way back, we laughed out loud, then decided never to buy CFLs.
Over the last 15 years, we've lost count of the number of light bulbs our kids have broken.
The idea of having each one be a potential (even likely) exposure to hazardous materials for the family and the house is just not acceptable.
We live in chicago.
Every time I read "open the windows for 15 minutes or more", my response is, "In January when it's -10?
"  So much for energy savings.I have so many what-ifs for this it's ridiculous.
What if it's January?
What if we have a bagless vacuum cleaner?
What if you don't see the breakage before a kid/pet gets into it?
(ever had broken glass from a lightbulb in your foot?
It's happened to all of us.
)  What if you don't have the required jar or plastic bag handy?
What if you don't have the required tape handy?
What if the tape lifts the finish from your wood floors?
What if residue remains in your carpet?
What if you miss a spot cleaning?
What if you don't find the broken light in your kids' room until the next day?I'm also a woodworker.
Incandescent light bulbs aren't just nice, they're required for some things.
Turning for example, creates a wagon-wheel effect from the flickering of florescent bulbs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605359</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246962540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The displeasing spectrum IS, after all, what prevents most people from buying fluorescent lights. Also, the whole fact that they DON'T FIT in many ceiling lights because they are bloody too long and weird.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The displeasing spectrum IS , after all , what prevents most people from buying fluorescent lights .
Also , the whole fact that they DO N'T FIT in many ceiling lights because they are bloody too long and weird .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The displeasing spectrum IS, after all, what prevents most people from buying fluorescent lights.
Also, the whole fact that they DON'T FIT in many ceiling lights because they are bloody too long and weird.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605299</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606001</id>
	<title>The trouble with complicated light bulbs..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246970400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>CFL bulbs have a real horrible effect on anyone who uses shortwave/am radio.</p><p>In fact, just about every piece of electronics does, computers, cable, even if the TV is off, the remote control receiver emits RF interference, for this reason I use a small 15 watt incandescent bulb near the radio and turn off nearby lighting. (without a dimmer.. for the same reasons)</p><p>Whats really frustrating are those switching complicated power supplies, absolute hell on reception. People who listen to FM exclusively probably don't notice these effects.</p><p>The dial lights of these older radios were designed to be incandescent, if companies make fangled bulbs, I worry what this will do for such applications.</p><p>One would hope that such bulbs are tested for RF interference, sounds like heat reflection won't cause problems, but.. anything in the bulb designed to assist in the heat reflection might.</p><p>People who think shortwave is irrelevant need only look at whats been going on in Iran and China lately.. we NEED to keep shortwave radio alive, it's the only viable way to get past the censors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>CFL bulbs have a real horrible effect on anyone who uses shortwave/am radio.In fact , just about every piece of electronics does , computers , cable , even if the TV is off , the remote control receiver emits RF interference , for this reason I use a small 15 watt incandescent bulb near the radio and turn off nearby lighting .
( without a dimmer.. for the same reasons ) Whats really frustrating are those switching complicated power supplies , absolute hell on reception .
People who listen to FM exclusively probably do n't notice these effects.The dial lights of these older radios were designed to be incandescent , if companies make fangled bulbs , I worry what this will do for such applications.One would hope that such bulbs are tested for RF interference , sounds like heat reflection wo n't cause problems , but.. anything in the bulb designed to assist in the heat reflection might.People who think shortwave is irrelevant need only look at whats been going on in Iran and China lately.. we NEED to keep shortwave radio alive , it 's the only viable way to get past the censors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CFL bulbs have a real horrible effect on anyone who uses shortwave/am radio.In fact, just about every piece of electronics does, computers, cable, even if the TV is off, the remote control receiver emits RF interference, for this reason I use a small 15 watt incandescent bulb near the radio and turn off nearby lighting.
(without a dimmer.. for the same reasons)Whats really frustrating are those switching complicated power supplies, absolute hell on reception.
People who listen to FM exclusively probably don't notice these effects.The dial lights of these older radios were designed to be incandescent, if companies make fangled bulbs, I worry what this will do for such applications.One would hope that such bulbs are tested for RF interference, sounds like heat reflection won't cause problems, but.. anything in the bulb designed to assist in the heat reflection might.People who think shortwave is irrelevant need only look at whats been going on in Iran and China lately.. we NEED to keep shortwave radio alive, it's the only viable way to get past the censors.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607257</id>
	<title>Re:flouro bulbs don't last</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1246978200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What on earth are you doing to them (and how often do you move house that you've been using them in your last 6)?  I've lived in this house now for about five years, and I still have two CFs working that I brought with my when I moved (the others have died and been replaced since).  I replace a bulb about once every year, maybe less, and I tend to buy cheap CFs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What on earth are you doing to them ( and how often do you move house that you 've been using them in your last 6 ) ?
I 've lived in this house now for about five years , and I still have two CFs working that I brought with my when I moved ( the others have died and been replaced since ) .
I replace a bulb about once every year , maybe less , and I tend to buy cheap CFs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What on earth are you doing to them (and how often do you move house that you've been using them in your last 6)?
I've lived in this house now for about five years, and I still have two CFs working that I brought with my when I moved (the others have died and been replaced since).
I replace a bulb about once every year, maybe less, and I tend to buy cheap CFs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605403</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606151</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>hazem</author>
	<datestamp>1246971960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Compare that to the method for incandescent bulbs:</p><p>1) sweep broken bulb pieces into adust pan and dump in the garbage</p><p>Plus I don't have to turn off my central air each time I clean the floor after that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Compare that to the method for incandescent bulbs : 1 ) sweep broken bulb pieces into adust pan and dump in the garbagePlus I do n't have to turn off my central air each time I clean the floor after that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Compare that to the method for incandescent bulbs:1) sweep broken bulb pieces into adust pan and dump in the garbagePlus I don't have to turn off my central air each time I clean the floor after that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610299</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Khashishi</author>
	<datestamp>1246990140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Which is why we need to move on to LED lighting, or something similarly durable. You can run over these things and have them still work (sometimes).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Which is why we need to move on to LED lighting , or something similarly durable .
You can run over these things and have them still work ( sometimes ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which is why we need to move on to LED lighting, or something similarly durable.
You can run over these things and have them still work (sometimes).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605895</id>
	<title>Re:I'm sorry but...</title>
	<author>MtViewGuy</author>
	<datestamp>1246969260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No thanks, too. Since today's CFLs have far less of the bluish-white color temperature of early CFLs, I can use them to replace incandescent light bulbs with no problems.</p><p>Besides, with LED bulb technology rapidly maturing, at US$5 per bulb for this "improved" incandescent bulb I might as well spend just a little more and get an LED bulb that uses way less power than even CFLs for the same light output.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No thanks , too .
Since today 's CFLs have far less of the bluish-white color temperature of early CFLs , I can use them to replace incandescent light bulbs with no problems.Besides , with LED bulb technology rapidly maturing , at US $ 5 per bulb for this " improved " incandescent bulb I might as well spend just a little more and get an LED bulb that uses way less power than even CFLs for the same light output .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No thanks, too.
Since today's CFLs have far less of the bluish-white color temperature of early CFLs, I can use them to replace incandescent light bulbs with no problems.Besides, with LED bulb technology rapidly maturing, at US$5 per bulb for this "improved" incandescent bulb I might as well spend just a little more and get an LED bulb that uses way less power than even CFLs for the same light output.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28611639</id>
	<title>$5 will go down</title>
	<author>Khashishi</author>
	<datestamp>1246995060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Keep in mind that the $5 cost is to offset come costs of this new technology, and I expect the costs to drop dramatically if the technology sees some uptake. After all, it doesn't LOOK that expensive to manufacture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Keep in mind that the $ 5 cost is to offset come costs of this new technology , and I expect the costs to drop dramatically if the technology sees some uptake .
After all , it does n't LOOK that expensive to manufacture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keep in mind that the $5 cost is to offset come costs of this new technology, and I expect the costs to drop dramatically if the technology sees some uptake.
After all, it doesn't LOOK that expensive to manufacture.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610685</id>
	<title>Just awesome. Long live light pollution.</title>
	<author>Pravus</author>
	<datestamp>1246991580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being an astronomy nut, I was actually pretty stoked to read about the proposed ban on incandescents. Low/High pressure sodium lights are easily filtered out when viewing or imaging the night sky. Incandescents however emit light across such a broad spectrum that it simply cannot be filtered out. Even using very narrow emission line filters (e.g. 3-5nm) filters doesn't cut it.</p><p>The street lamps near my house are low pressure sodium, but I live in an area where the local inhabitants insist on keeping their homes lit up like it's broad daylight. I figured at least my suffering was coming to somewhat of an end in the near future. I guess now I'll have to buy lightbulbs for all of my closest neighbours. Alas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being an astronomy nut , I was actually pretty stoked to read about the proposed ban on incandescents .
Low/High pressure sodium lights are easily filtered out when viewing or imaging the night sky .
Incandescents however emit light across such a broad spectrum that it simply can not be filtered out .
Even using very narrow emission line filters ( e.g .
3-5nm ) filters does n't cut it.The street lamps near my house are low pressure sodium , but I live in an area where the local inhabitants insist on keeping their homes lit up like it 's broad daylight .
I figured at least my suffering was coming to somewhat of an end in the near future .
I guess now I 'll have to buy lightbulbs for all of my closest neighbours .
Alas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being an astronomy nut, I was actually pretty stoked to read about the proposed ban on incandescents.
Low/High pressure sodium lights are easily filtered out when viewing or imaging the night sky.
Incandescents however emit light across such a broad spectrum that it simply cannot be filtered out.
Even using very narrow emission line filters (e.g.
3-5nm) filters doesn't cut it.The street lamps near my house are low pressure sodium, but I live in an area where the local inhabitants insist on keeping their homes lit up like it's broad daylight.
I figured at least my suffering was coming to somewhat of an end in the near future.
I guess now I'll have to buy lightbulbs for all of my closest neighbours.
Alas.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606525</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246974480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How the hell is that comment insightful? There are flourescents that are the same size as the incandescents you're used to with a warm spectrum. What about updating your knowledge from ~5 years ago?</htmltext>
<tokenext>How the hell is that comment insightful ?
There are flourescents that are the same size as the incandescents you 're used to with a warm spectrum .
What about updating your knowledge from ~ 5 years ago ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How the hell is that comment insightful?
There are flourescents that are the same size as the incandescents you're used to with a warm spectrum.
What about updating your knowledge from ~5 years ago?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609363</id>
	<title>Re:I'm sorry but...</title>
	<author>GWBasic</author>
	<datestamp>1246986240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm sorry but this so called new technology is a farce. 30\% improvement in efficiency over 5\% efficiency is still just 8\% overall. At $5 apiece, which is way more then a CFL, which goes around $2.5 to $3.3 apiece, and it's 75\% efficiency, I'm going for CFL.</p></div><p>CFLs suck in dimmers.  These won't, and IMO, well worth the extra bucks so my "mood lighting" doesn't create a strobe effect in the bedroom or when I'm tryint to watch a movie.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sorry but this so called new technology is a farce .
30 \ % improvement in efficiency over 5 \ % efficiency is still just 8 \ % overall .
At $ 5 apiece , which is way more then a CFL , which goes around $ 2.5 to $ 3.3 apiece , and it 's 75 \ % efficiency , I 'm going for CFL.CFLs suck in dimmers .
These wo n't , and IMO , well worth the extra bucks so my " mood lighting " does n't create a strobe effect in the bedroom or when I 'm tryint to watch a movie .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sorry but this so called new technology is a farce.
30\% improvement in efficiency over 5\% efficiency is still just 8\% overall.
At $5 apiece, which is way more then a CFL, which goes around $2.5 to $3.3 apiece, and it's 75\% efficiency, I'm going for CFL.CFLs suck in dimmers.
These won't, and IMO, well worth the extra bucks so my "mood lighting" doesn't create a strobe effect in the bedroom or when I'm tryint to watch a movie.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605511</id>
	<title>Re:lasers?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246963920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is ridiculous. I've been using Philips HalogenA bulbs for about 15years already, how the fuck is this EVEN SLIGHTLY news? They have an excellent spectrum, are pricey and last about three times as long a a cheap incandescant. The NYT story is pure marketing to the ignorant, but HalogenA is an excellent product that deserves a wider audience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is ridiculous .
I 've been using Philips HalogenA bulbs for about 15years already , how the fuck is this EVEN SLIGHTLY news ?
They have an excellent spectrum , are pricey and last about three times as long a a cheap incandescant .
The NYT story is pure marketing to the ignorant , but HalogenA is an excellent product that deserves a wider audience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is ridiculous.
I've been using Philips HalogenA bulbs for about 15years already, how the fuck is this EVEN SLIGHTLY news?
They have an excellent spectrum, are pricey and last about three times as long a a cheap incandescant.
The NYT story is pure marketing to the ignorant, but HalogenA is an excellent product that deserves a wider audience.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605291</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605675</id>
	<title>Re:LED Lamps</title>
	<author>d0cu</author>
	<datestamp>1246966200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>and have awfully narrow spectrum</htmltext>
<tokenext>and have awfully narrow spectrum</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and have awfully narrow spectrum</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605629</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606141</id>
	<title>Too Little, Too Late</title>
	<author>Doc Ruby</author>
	<datestamp>1246971840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, these new incandescents are 30\% more efficient, but my CFLs are <i>400\%</i> more efficient than the latest "normal" bulbs they compete with. They're therefore 3x as efficient as these new incandescents. And these new ones, at $5 apiece, cost 8.75x what my CFLs cost in a box of 12. The CFLs will last something like 10 years, instead of about 2 for incandescents (maybe 5 for these new, less hot ones). But at such high efficiency, the CFLs add very little heat to the room to be cooled with my air conditioning - even more overall system efficiency. As for the spectrum, my CFLs side by side a new GE incandescent at the same luminosity show the CFL with a slightly yellower light, which is the "warm" light we like to associate with homey incandescent.</p><p>If we didn't have good CFLs, these new incandescents would be welcome. They might have some applications, given their small size, and cheap dimmability (dimmable CFLs cost 2-3x as much, last half as long, at least during their own early days). But within a couple years LEDs with 1300-1900 lumens will cost less than CFLs now, and can run directly on DC power - thereby increasing solar PV efficiency driving them by eliminating the 30-50\% now lost on DC/AC/DC conversion. The LEDs will have a more tunable spectrum, last longer, and fit smaller fixtures, with even less heat inefficiency to cool (or disperse in enclosures).</p><p>CFLs today, LEDs tomorrow. Incandescents in movies about the 20th Century.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , these new incandescents are 30 \ % more efficient , but my CFLs are 400 \ % more efficient than the latest " normal " bulbs they compete with .
They 're therefore 3x as efficient as these new incandescents .
And these new ones , at $ 5 apiece , cost 8.75x what my CFLs cost in a box of 12 .
The CFLs will last something like 10 years , instead of about 2 for incandescents ( maybe 5 for these new , less hot ones ) .
But at such high efficiency , the CFLs add very little heat to the room to be cooled with my air conditioning - even more overall system efficiency .
As for the spectrum , my CFLs side by side a new GE incandescent at the same luminosity show the CFL with a slightly yellower light , which is the " warm " light we like to associate with homey incandescent.If we did n't have good CFLs , these new incandescents would be welcome .
They might have some applications , given their small size , and cheap dimmability ( dimmable CFLs cost 2-3x as much , last half as long , at least during their own early days ) .
But within a couple years LEDs with 1300-1900 lumens will cost less than CFLs now , and can run directly on DC power - thereby increasing solar PV efficiency driving them by eliminating the 30-50 \ % now lost on DC/AC/DC conversion .
The LEDs will have a more tunable spectrum , last longer , and fit smaller fixtures , with even less heat inefficiency to cool ( or disperse in enclosures ) .CFLs today , LEDs tomorrow .
Incandescents in movies about the 20th Century .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, these new incandescents are 30\% more efficient, but my CFLs are 400\% more efficient than the latest "normal" bulbs they compete with.
They're therefore 3x as efficient as these new incandescents.
And these new ones, at $5 apiece, cost 8.75x what my CFLs cost in a box of 12.
The CFLs will last something like 10 years, instead of about 2 for incandescents (maybe 5 for these new, less hot ones).
But at such high efficiency, the CFLs add very little heat to the room to be cooled with my air conditioning - even more overall system efficiency.
As for the spectrum, my CFLs side by side a new GE incandescent at the same luminosity show the CFL with a slightly yellower light, which is the "warm" light we like to associate with homey incandescent.If we didn't have good CFLs, these new incandescents would be welcome.
They might have some applications, given their small size, and cheap dimmability (dimmable CFLs cost 2-3x as much, last half as long, at least during their own early days).
But within a couple years LEDs with 1300-1900 lumens will cost less than CFLs now, and can run directly on DC power - thereby increasing solar PV efficiency driving them by eliminating the 30-50\% now lost on DC/AC/DC conversion.
The LEDs will have a more tunable spectrum, last longer, and fit smaller fixtures, with even less heat inefficiency to cool (or disperse in enclosures).CFLs today, LEDs tomorrow.
Incandescents in movies about the 20th Century.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610289</id>
	<title>Re:Strip lights</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246990020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is actually a really good point. I've replaced all of my incandescent bulbs with CFL in my apartment quite some time ago. The majority of them are 6500K color temperature CFL. Typically they call these "daylight" bulbs. I've always liked these color bulbs. Even back when I was using incandescents, I bought full spectrum bulbs to get that color. One unexpected beneficial side effect of using 6500K CFL is that I've found that you need less equivalent light output(lower wattage bulb) from this color temperature bulb, than say a typical 2700K soft white bulb. Which equates to an additional savings in electricity consumption. The whiter color spectrum makes things much easier to see, thus you need much less lumen output, or otherwise get glare.</p><p>So the lamp by my computer uses a 9 Watt 6500K CFL (40 Watt incandescent equivalent). From a previously 100 Watt full spectrum incandescent. (Note full spectrum incandescents color is different than 6500K CFL)<br>My bedside reading lamp uses a 2 Watt 6500K CFL (15 Watt incandescent equivalent). From a previously dimmable 100 Watt halogen lamp. Which I would normally dim down to low levels. But made the color very yellow.<br>My kitchen uses four R20 14 Watt 6500K CFL (about 50 Watt incanscent equivalent). While this is similar lumen output as the prior incandescents. I get much more clarity and visibility in my kitchen due to the color temperature, which is a bonus. But also get a big savings in electricity usage going from 200 Watts, to 56 Watts, and a lot less heat output. Plus at the time, these bulbs were about the same price in cost as the R20 incandescents. Yet the R20 incandescents were very unreliable. Usually one would have to be replaced every six months to a year. I've yet to replace any of the R20 CFL after two years plus.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is actually a really good point .
I 've replaced all of my incandescent bulbs with CFL in my apartment quite some time ago .
The majority of them are 6500K color temperature CFL .
Typically they call these " daylight " bulbs .
I 've always liked these color bulbs .
Even back when I was using incandescents , I bought full spectrum bulbs to get that color .
One unexpected beneficial side effect of using 6500K CFL is that I 've found that you need less equivalent light output ( lower wattage bulb ) from this color temperature bulb , than say a typical 2700K soft white bulb .
Which equates to an additional savings in electricity consumption .
The whiter color spectrum makes things much easier to see , thus you need much less lumen output , or otherwise get glare.So the lamp by my computer uses a 9 Watt 6500K CFL ( 40 Watt incandescent equivalent ) .
From a previously 100 Watt full spectrum incandescent .
( Note full spectrum incandescents color is different than 6500K CFL ) My bedside reading lamp uses a 2 Watt 6500K CFL ( 15 Watt incandescent equivalent ) .
From a previously dimmable 100 Watt halogen lamp .
Which I would normally dim down to low levels .
But made the color very yellow.My kitchen uses four R20 14 Watt 6500K CFL ( about 50 Watt incanscent equivalent ) .
While this is similar lumen output as the prior incandescents .
I get much more clarity and visibility in my kitchen due to the color temperature , which is a bonus .
But also get a big savings in electricity usage going from 200 Watts , to 56 Watts , and a lot less heat output .
Plus at the time , these bulbs were about the same price in cost as the R20 incandescents .
Yet the R20 incandescents were very unreliable .
Usually one would have to be replaced every six months to a year .
I 've yet to replace any of the R20 CFL after two years plus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is actually a really good point.
I've replaced all of my incandescent bulbs with CFL in my apartment quite some time ago.
The majority of them are 6500K color temperature CFL.
Typically they call these "daylight" bulbs.
I've always liked these color bulbs.
Even back when I was using incandescents, I bought full spectrum bulbs to get that color.
One unexpected beneficial side effect of using 6500K CFL is that I've found that you need less equivalent light output(lower wattage bulb) from this color temperature bulb, than say a typical 2700K soft white bulb.
Which equates to an additional savings in electricity consumption.
The whiter color spectrum makes things much easier to see, thus you need much less lumen output, or otherwise get glare.So the lamp by my computer uses a 9 Watt 6500K CFL (40 Watt incandescent equivalent).
From a previously 100 Watt full spectrum incandescent.
(Note full spectrum incandescents color is different than 6500K CFL)My bedside reading lamp uses a 2 Watt 6500K CFL (15 Watt incandescent equivalent).
From a previously dimmable 100 Watt halogen lamp.
Which I would normally dim down to low levels.
But made the color very yellow.My kitchen uses four R20 14 Watt 6500K CFL (about 50 Watt incanscent equivalent).
While this is similar lumen output as the prior incandescents.
I get much more clarity and visibility in my kitchen due to the color temperature, which is a bonus.
But also get a big savings in electricity usage going from 200 Watts, to 56 Watts, and a lot less heat output.
Plus at the time, these bulbs were about the same price in cost as the R20 incandescents.
Yet the R20 incandescents were very unreliable.
Usually one would have to be replaced every six months to a year.
I've yet to replace any of the R20 CFL after two years plus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605715</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605975</id>
	<title>Re:I'm sorry but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246970160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm sorry but this so called new technology is a farce. 30\% improvement in efficiency over 5\% efficiency is still just 8\% overall. At $5 apiece, which is way more then a CFL, which goes around $2.5 to $3.3 apiece, and it's 75\% efficiency, I'm going for CFL.</p></div><p>I saw the other day Maplin had a bin of them at a &#194;&pound;1 each by their tills. That said, over here in the UK, for the last year or so almost every energy company has been giving piles of CFL away for free, to the extent I've got a couple dozen stock piled.  Judging by the life span of previous CFL bulbs I've got, many of which came with me when moving around different houses several years ago, I'll won't have to buy a new bulb for a couple of decades. Its only non standard shaped fittings I've actually had to buy. Glad I found some decent GU10 spotlight shaped CFL's, as normal halogen GU10's never seem to last more than a few months and aren't cheap either.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sorry but this so called new technology is a farce .
30 \ % improvement in efficiency over 5 \ % efficiency is still just 8 \ % overall .
At $ 5 apiece , which is way more then a CFL , which goes around $ 2.5 to $ 3.3 apiece , and it 's 75 \ % efficiency , I 'm going for CFL.I saw the other day Maplin had a bin of them at a     1 each by their tills .
That said , over here in the UK , for the last year or so almost every energy company has been giving piles of CFL away for free , to the extent I 've got a couple dozen stock piled .
Judging by the life span of previous CFL bulbs I 've got , many of which came with me when moving around different houses several years ago , I 'll wo n't have to buy a new bulb for a couple of decades .
Its only non standard shaped fittings I 've actually had to buy .
Glad I found some decent GU10 spotlight shaped CFL 's , as normal halogen GU10 's never seem to last more than a few months and are n't cheap either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sorry but this so called new technology is a farce.
30\% improvement in efficiency over 5\% efficiency is still just 8\% overall.
At $5 apiece, which is way more then a CFL, which goes around $2.5 to $3.3 apiece, and it's 75\% efficiency, I'm going for CFL.I saw the other day Maplin had a bin of them at a Â£1 each by their tills.
That said, over here in the UK, for the last year or so almost every energy company has been giving piles of CFL away for free, to the extent I've got a couple dozen stock piled.
Judging by the life span of previous CFL bulbs I've got, many of which came with me when moving around different houses several years ago, I'll won't have to buy a new bulb for a couple of decades.
Its only non standard shaped fittings I've actually had to buy.
Glad I found some decent GU10 spotlight shaped CFL's, as normal halogen GU10's never seem to last more than a few months and aren't cheap either.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607149</id>
	<title>Re:I'm sorry but...</title>
	<author>ducomputergeek</author>
	<datestamp>1246977780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm convinced whoever decided to eliminate the incandescent bulb never had kids.  I know it's a small amount of mercury, but still, how many times do kids knock over a lamp and then not tell you because they don't want to get in trouble?</p><p>I replaced the lights that I could with CFL's a while ago.  I'm not sure how much money it really saves me as my energy usage was not much above the minimum fee of $45 a month before most months and it's about the same.  But there are a few places I've kept regular old light bulbs, like the closets.  When I put a CFL in their it took long enough to power on that I was usually done before it became fully lit.</p><p>Maybe in a couple years LED bulbs will be a bit better price wise.  Until then, I'll be stocking up on a case of old light bulbs every time I'm at Sams.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm convinced whoever decided to eliminate the incandescent bulb never had kids .
I know it 's a small amount of mercury , but still , how many times do kids knock over a lamp and then not tell you because they do n't want to get in trouble ? I replaced the lights that I could with CFL 's a while ago .
I 'm not sure how much money it really saves me as my energy usage was not much above the minimum fee of $ 45 a month before most months and it 's about the same .
But there are a few places I 've kept regular old light bulbs , like the closets .
When I put a CFL in their it took long enough to power on that I was usually done before it became fully lit.Maybe in a couple years LED bulbs will be a bit better price wise .
Until then , I 'll be stocking up on a case of old light bulbs every time I 'm at Sams .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm convinced whoever decided to eliminate the incandescent bulb never had kids.
I know it's a small amount of mercury, but still, how many times do kids knock over a lamp and then not tell you because they don't want to get in trouble?I replaced the lights that I could with CFL's a while ago.
I'm not sure how much money it really saves me as my energy usage was not much above the minimum fee of $45 a month before most months and it's about the same.
But there are a few places I've kept regular old light bulbs, like the closets.
When I put a CFL in their it took long enough to power on that I was usually done before it became fully lit.Maybe in a couple years LED bulbs will be a bit better price wise.
Until then, I'll be stocking up on a case of old light bulbs every time I'm at Sams.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28611113</id>
	<title>Government gets the credit?</title>
	<author>mattwarden</author>
	<datestamp>1246993200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Incredible. Summary gives the credit of this innovation to the government?</p><p>&gt; the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can<br>&gt; inspire technical innovation</p><p>So, the 300 million people in the market say they want incandescent. Government says no, they aren't "energy efficient enough", according to a few hundred people in DC. An industry attempts to survive by pouring money into research that they didn't do before because it didn't make sense and would only drive up consumer costs. Now they have a solution that will cost more but at least it exists.</p><p>And the credit to this innovation goes to government?</p><p>This is typical of the leftist bias. Laud the benefits and don't talk at all about the cost. In the head of the submitter, everything is black-and-white, good-or-bad and there is no need to analyze whether this is worth the cost.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Incredible .
Summary gives the credit of this innovation to the government ? &gt; the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can &gt; inspire technical innovationSo , the 300 million people in the market say they want incandescent .
Government says no , they are n't " energy efficient enough " , according to a few hundred people in DC .
An industry attempts to survive by pouring money into research that they did n't do before because it did n't make sense and would only drive up consumer costs .
Now they have a solution that will cost more but at least it exists.And the credit to this innovation goes to government ? This is typical of the leftist bias .
Laud the benefits and do n't talk at all about the cost .
In the head of the submitter , everything is black-and-white , good-or-bad and there is no need to analyze whether this is worth the cost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Incredible.
Summary gives the credit of this innovation to the government?&gt; the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can&gt; inspire technical innovationSo, the 300 million people in the market say they want incandescent.
Government says no, they aren't "energy efficient enough", according to a few hundred people in DC.
An industry attempts to survive by pouring money into research that they didn't do before because it didn't make sense and would only drive up consumer costs.
Now they have a solution that will cost more but at least it exists.And the credit to this innovation goes to government?This is typical of the leftist bias.
Laud the benefits and don't talk at all about the cost.
In the head of the submitter, everything is black-and-white, good-or-bad and there is no need to analyze whether this is worth the cost.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606967</id>
	<title>Decent Product - Not Excactly New</title>
	<author>rampant poodle</author>
	<datestamp>1246977060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Great light output, color temperature, and reasonably long life.  Good for places I like a LOT of light, (kitchen and bathroom).  Maybe they are new in the states but they have existed for over 10 years in Europe.  (Long enough that you can get assorted Asian knockoffs as well as the standard Phillips, Osram etc).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Great light output , color temperature , and reasonably long life .
Good for places I like a LOT of light , ( kitchen and bathroom ) .
Maybe they are new in the states but they have existed for over 10 years in Europe .
( Long enough that you can get assorted Asian knockoffs as well as the standard Phillips , Osram etc ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great light output, color temperature, and reasonably long life.
Good for places I like a LOT of light, (kitchen and bathroom).
Maybe they are new in the states but they have existed for over 10 years in Europe.
(Long enough that you can get assorted Asian knockoffs as well as the standard Phillips, Osram etc).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607863</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Icegryphon</author>
	<datestamp>1246980360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am now sad and depressed,<br>
I posted this before and got modded a troll by libtards, eco-nuts, and/or GE employees.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am now sad and depressed , I posted this before and got modded a troll by libtards , eco-nuts , and/or GE employees .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am now sad and depressed,
I posted this before and got modded a troll by libtards, eco-nuts, and/or GE employees.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28629081</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient? A HORROR STORY!</title>
	<author>aqk</author>
	<datestamp>1247051040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Without attempting to be too cruel, I regret to inform you:<br>
THIS IS SHEER IDIOCY.<br>

I use a couple of hi-tech devices myself- they are called a "dustpan" and a "broom". The broken glass is then carefully dumped into a "garbage can". (Those glass shard are dangerous)
<br>
Small horror story:<br>
A coupla weeks ago, I chipped a tooth that already had a large mercury amalgam filing in it.<br>
Thank goodness I saved the old filling. <br>
The tooth was soon repaired by my dentist, with alas, another big gob of... the dreaded MERCURY! (plus some silver) <br>

Migod!  Do you know? There is more mercury IN JUST ONE OF MY TOOTH FILLINGS than all the CFLs ever used in my home! <br>
Now- Mr. Science, what do I do with the old tooth filling?  <br>
1. Toss it down the toilet? <br>
2. Dump it Into the garbage? (when no one is looking) <br>
3.Recycling? (Problem: it's too hard for recycling guys to even see the minute amount of mercury- they just see glass and metal) <br>
Or- <br>
4. Can I mail it to you?   Pretty please? <br>
I'M SURE you will know what to do with it!  <br>
But if not, I have a suggestion or two for you . <br>
Now- <br>
What worries me more, is when I die and am cremated.  What happens to all my Mercury fillings?  <br>
 More than ten thousand CFLs! AIIEEE!! <br>
Should I perhaps if I can beforehand, warn the mourners  to hold their breaths? Or warn the undertaker?  Or did he already<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...umm remove my fillings and then<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... <br>
 GOTO 1</htmltext>
<tokenext>Without attempting to be too cruel , I regret to inform you : THIS IS SHEER IDIOCY .
I use a couple of hi-tech devices myself- they are called a " dustpan " and a " broom " .
The broken glass is then carefully dumped into a " garbage can " .
( Those glass shard are dangerous ) Small horror story : A coupla weeks ago , I chipped a tooth that already had a large mercury amalgam filing in it .
Thank goodness I saved the old filling .
The tooth was soon repaired by my dentist , with alas , another big gob of... the dreaded MERCURY !
( plus some silver ) Migod !
Do you know ?
There is more mercury IN JUST ONE OF MY TOOTH FILLINGS than all the CFLs ever used in my home !
Now- Mr. Science , what do I do with the old tooth filling ?
1. Toss it down the toilet ?
2. Dump it Into the garbage ?
( when no one is looking ) 3.Recycling ?
( Problem : it 's too hard for recycling guys to even see the minute amount of mercury- they just see glass and metal ) Or- 4 .
Can I mail it to you ?
Pretty please ?
I 'M SURE you will know what to do with it !
But if not , I have a suggestion or two for you .
Now- What worries me more , is when I die and am cremated .
What happens to all my Mercury fillings ?
More than ten thousand CFLs !
AIIEEE ! ! Should I perhaps if I can beforehand , warn the mourners to hold their breaths ?
Or warn the undertaker ?
Or did he already ...umm remove my fillings and then .. . GOTO 1</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Without attempting to be too cruel, I regret to inform you:
THIS IS SHEER IDIOCY.
I use a couple of hi-tech devices myself- they are called a "dustpan" and a "broom".
The broken glass is then carefully dumped into a "garbage can".
(Those glass shard are dangerous)

Small horror story:
A coupla weeks ago, I chipped a tooth that already had a large mercury amalgam filing in it.
Thank goodness I saved the old filling.
The tooth was soon repaired by my dentist, with alas, another big gob of... the dreaded MERCURY!
(plus some silver) 

Migod!
Do you know?
There is more mercury IN JUST ONE OF MY TOOTH FILLINGS than all the CFLs ever used in my home!
Now- Mr. Science, what do I do with the old tooth filling?
1. Toss it down the toilet?
2. Dump it Into the garbage?
(when no one is looking) 
3.Recycling?
(Problem: it's too hard for recycling guys to even see the minute amount of mercury- they just see glass and metal) 
Or- 
4.
Can I mail it to you?
Pretty please?
I'M SURE you will know what to do with it!
But if not, I have a suggestion or two for you .
Now- 
What worries me more, is when I die and am cremated.
What happens to all my Mercury fillings?
More than ten thousand CFLs!
AIIEEE!! 
Should I perhaps if I can beforehand, warn the mourners  to hold their breaths?
Or warn the undertaker?
Or did he already ...umm remove my fillings and then ... 
 GOTO 1</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28608233</id>
	<title>Re:Too Little, Too Late</title>
	<author>JediTrainer</author>
	<datestamp>1246981860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Form factor is still a problem. Having purchased an older house we have quite a bit of lighting in the ceiling that uses 20W globe bulbs (with the small connector). As much as I've love to replace the chandeliers, it's not a priority right now. Would love to install CFLs but there are none that will fit. Perhaps this technology can be put to use to help us here?<br> <br>
Our bathroom vanity lights use the same bulbs too...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Form factor is still a problem .
Having purchased an older house we have quite a bit of lighting in the ceiling that uses 20W globe bulbs ( with the small connector ) .
As much as I 've love to replace the chandeliers , it 's not a priority right now .
Would love to install CFLs but there are none that will fit .
Perhaps this technology can be put to use to help us here ?
Our bathroom vanity lights use the same bulbs too.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Form factor is still a problem.
Having purchased an older house we have quite a bit of lighting in the ceiling that uses 20W globe bulbs (with the small connector).
As much as I've love to replace the chandeliers, it's not a priority right now.
Would love to install CFLs but there are none that will fit.
Perhaps this technology can be put to use to help us here?
Our bathroom vanity lights use the same bulbs too...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606141</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605945</id>
	<title>Halogen lightbulb by another name</title>
	<author>Cluster2k1</author>
	<datestamp>1246969860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This was cutting edge technology... in the 1950s.  The 'new' technology being presented here is just a high voltage halogen light bulb packaged in the traditional bayonet or Edison screw format.  I am amazed that anyone is calling this 'cutting edge'.<br>
<br>
Philips sells Polish made halogen light bulbs here in Australia for around $3 each (US$2.40) while Osrams are slightly cheaper.  These consume 30\% less power (70w instead of 100w) with double the lifetime of a traditional light bulb.<br>
<br>
I love CFLs as nothing in a reasonable price range is as efficient.  The payback period is only a few months.  However, CFLs take a little while to heat up (up to 30 seconds) and don't react well to frequent power cycling.  Therefore I use 240v halogens in bayonet format in some circumstances.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This was cutting edge technology... in the 1950s .
The 'new ' technology being presented here is just a high voltage halogen light bulb packaged in the traditional bayonet or Edison screw format .
I am amazed that anyone is calling this 'cutting edge' .
Philips sells Polish made halogen light bulbs here in Australia for around $ 3 each ( US $ 2.40 ) while Osrams are slightly cheaper .
These consume 30 \ % less power ( 70w instead of 100w ) with double the lifetime of a traditional light bulb .
I love CFLs as nothing in a reasonable price range is as efficient .
The payback period is only a few months .
However , CFLs take a little while to heat up ( up to 30 seconds ) and do n't react well to frequent power cycling .
Therefore I use 240v halogens in bayonet format in some circumstances .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This was cutting edge technology... in the 1950s.
The 'new' technology being presented here is just a high voltage halogen light bulb packaged in the traditional bayonet or Edison screw format.
I am amazed that anyone is calling this 'cutting edge'.
Philips sells Polish made halogen light bulbs here in Australia for around $3 each (US$2.40) while Osrams are slightly cheaper.
These consume 30\% less power (70w instead of 100w) with double the lifetime of a traditional light bulb.
I love CFLs as nothing in a reasonable price range is as efficient.
The payback period is only a few months.
However, CFLs take a little while to heat up (up to 30 seconds) and don't react well to frequent power cycling.
Therefore I use 240v halogens in bayonet format in some circumstances.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606733</id>
	<title>Yeah, except...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246975620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why do that when you can get a more energy efficient 30,000 hour LED bulb for 15 bucks?</p><p>Granted, they do not offer LED bulbs in the standard form factor in the States yet. But track lighting? LEDs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do that when you can get a more energy efficient 30,000 hour LED bulb for 15 bucks ? Granted , they do not offer LED bulbs in the standard form factor in the States yet .
But track lighting ?
LEDs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do that when you can get a more energy efficient 30,000 hour LED bulb for 15 bucks?Granted, they do not offer LED bulbs in the standard form factor in the States yet.
But track lighting?
LEDs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28615471</id>
	<title>Re:Light Bulbs...The LEAST of our worries</title>
	<author>El\_Oscuro</author>
	<datestamp>1246968240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A few months ago, I read an article on MAKE magazine that talked a lot about what we use our energy on.  It specifically mentioned that a Mr. Coffee pot used about 850W as long as the pot is turned on.  That same morning I broke the carafe.  So I went to K-mart and bought one that uses a thermos type carafe and only runs the burner for 10 minutes when the coffee is brewing.  The savings?  At least 1.7KW/hr a day, every day.  Just by getting a better coffee pot.</p><p>Hopping on a bike for all of those little &lt; 1 mile trips to the store instead of driving can save shitloads of gas.  When I started doing that, the time between fillups increased from 7 to 10 days.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A few months ago , I read an article on MAKE magazine that talked a lot about what we use our energy on .
It specifically mentioned that a Mr. Coffee pot used about 850W as long as the pot is turned on .
That same morning I broke the carafe .
So I went to K-mart and bought one that uses a thermos type carafe and only runs the burner for 10 minutes when the coffee is brewing .
The savings ?
At least 1.7KW/hr a day , every day .
Just by getting a better coffee pot.Hopping on a bike for all of those little</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A few months ago, I read an article on MAKE magazine that talked a lot about what we use our energy on.
It specifically mentioned that a Mr. Coffee pot used about 850W as long as the pot is turned on.
That same morning I broke the carafe.
So I went to K-mart and bought one that uses a thermos type carafe and only runs the burner for 10 minutes when the coffee is brewing.
The savings?
At least 1.7KW/hr a day, every day.
Just by getting a better coffee pot.Hopping on a bike for all of those little </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609395</id>
	<title>Mercury Content of CFL bulbs</title>
	<author>Chubby\_C</author>
	<datestamp>1246986360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>People are a little too concerned about the mercury in these bulbs with no concept of the amount that  is contained within.
I oversee the reclaim program for our office campus and I'll give you the breakdown from last year's bulb recycling efforts:<p>
1,982 lamps/bulbs recycled</p><p>
a total of </p><p>
495.1 kg of glass </p><p>
5.85 kg of metal</p><p>
7.4 kg of phosphor</p><p>
0.073 kg of mercury = 73 g = 2.575 oz</p><p>

That's what is generated from 4 buildings in one year.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People are a little too concerned about the mercury in these bulbs with no concept of the amount that is contained within .
I oversee the reclaim program for our office campus and I 'll give you the breakdown from last year 's bulb recycling efforts : 1,982 lamps/bulbs recycled a total of 495.1 kg of glass 5.85 kg of metal 7.4 kg of phosphor 0.073 kg of mercury = 73 g = 2.575 oz That 's what is generated from 4 buildings in one year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People are a little too concerned about the mercury in these bulbs with no concept of the amount that  is contained within.
I oversee the reclaim program for our office campus and I'll give you the breakdown from last year's bulb recycling efforts:
1,982 lamps/bulbs recycled
a total of 
495.1 kg of glass 
5.85 kg of metal
7.4 kg of phosphor
0.073 kg of mercury = 73 g = 2.575 oz

That's what is generated from 4 buildings in one year.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605935</id>
	<title>Re: Safety gone OTT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246969680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But does anyone really follow these guidelines in reality? I've broken a couple of CFL bulbs in the paste and certainly not bothered going to this extent. Just picked up the big bits, wrapped them in news paper, shoved in bin. Then hoovered up the rest and picked out another bulb. Does the amount of mercury in CFL really warrant such drastic cleaning procedures? I've certainly not seen any mention of precautions like this on the boxes of them. In fact I think I've only ever read such about procedures here...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But does anyone really follow these guidelines in reality ?
I 've broken a couple of CFL bulbs in the paste and certainly not bothered going to this extent .
Just picked up the big bits , wrapped them in news paper , shoved in bin .
Then hoovered up the rest and picked out another bulb .
Does the amount of mercury in CFL really warrant such drastic cleaning procedures ?
I 've certainly not seen any mention of precautions like this on the boxes of them .
In fact I think I 've only ever read such about procedures here.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But does anyone really follow these guidelines in reality?
I've broken a couple of CFL bulbs in the paste and certainly not bothered going to this extent.
Just picked up the big bits, wrapped them in news paper, shoved in bin.
Then hoovered up the rest and picked out another bulb.
Does the amount of mercury in CFL really warrant such drastic cleaning procedures?
I've certainly not seen any mention of precautions like this on the boxes of them.
In fact I think I've only ever read such about procedures here...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605715</id>
	<title>Strip lights</title>
	<author>lisaparratt</author>
	<datestamp>1246966980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I got tired of incandescent bulbs failing, and the low light output of CFLs. I just installed a couple of high output fluorescent tubes in the dungeon, and now it's much easier to see what you're doing. People need to just get over this "warm" light nonsense.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got tired of incandescent bulbs failing , and the low light output of CFLs .
I just installed a couple of high output fluorescent tubes in the dungeon , and now it 's much easier to see what you 're doing .
People need to just get over this " warm " light nonsense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got tired of incandescent bulbs failing, and the low light output of CFLs.
I just installed a couple of high output fluorescent tubes in the dungeon, and now it's much easier to see what you're doing.
People need to just get over this "warm" light nonsense.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605483</id>
	<title>other ideas</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246963620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We can take the energy savings much further. We only need light where we look, so some advanced eye-tracking/prediction system can help here. Also think about the savings on highways (only need light where there are cars). We might even use some kind of advanced night-vision goggles/contact lenses, and  get rid of the lighting problem altogether<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We can take the energy savings much further .
We only need light where we look , so some advanced eye-tracking/prediction system can help here .
Also think about the savings on highways ( only need light where there are cars ) .
We might even use some kind of advanced night-vision goggles/contact lenses , and get rid of the lighting problem altogether : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can take the energy savings much further.
We only need light where we look, so some advanced eye-tracking/prediction system can help here.
Also think about the savings on highways (only need light where there are cars).
We might even use some kind of advanced night-vision goggles/contact lenses, and  get rid of the lighting problem altogether :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610005</id>
	<title>Re:Too Little, Too Late</title>
	<author>dfghjk</author>
	<datestamp>1246988820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your comparisons don't add up.  First, it's true that CFL can be 3x, or even 4x, more efficient than today's halogen but it's not always the case and we aren't talking about today's bulbs.  Second, you compare single pricing to case pricing on the bulbs.  Third, your bulb life comparison is meaningless.  CFL bulb life varies just like incandescent and a 5x advantage is not typical. Fourth, your assumption that bulb heat effects overall efficiency is naive and fifth, no CFL produces the quality of light of an incandescent.</p><p>Finally, you have vastly understated the issue of dimming.  There are CFLs that are dimmable but the capability damages their efficiency and causes their costs to explode plus they don't work well.  Many dimmers don't like CFLs of any kind and just wait til your expensive dimmable CFL fails in 3 weeks and takes your dimmer with it.</p><p>LEDs are far more promising than CFL but they don't dim either.  Neither touches the beauty of halogen, though I don't expect the typical<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.'er to be able to tell the difference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your comparisons do n't add up .
First , it 's true that CFL can be 3x , or even 4x , more efficient than today 's halogen but it 's not always the case and we are n't talking about today 's bulbs .
Second , you compare single pricing to case pricing on the bulbs .
Third , your bulb life comparison is meaningless .
CFL bulb life varies just like incandescent and a 5x advantage is not typical .
Fourth , your assumption that bulb heat effects overall efficiency is naive and fifth , no CFL produces the quality of light of an incandescent.Finally , you have vastly understated the issue of dimming .
There are CFLs that are dimmable but the capability damages their efficiency and causes their costs to explode plus they do n't work well .
Many dimmers do n't like CFLs of any kind and just wait til your expensive dimmable CFL fails in 3 weeks and takes your dimmer with it.LEDs are far more promising than CFL but they do n't dim either .
Neither touches the beauty of halogen , though I do n't expect the typical / .
'er to be able to tell the difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your comparisons don't add up.
First, it's true that CFL can be 3x, or even 4x, more efficient than today's halogen but it's not always the case and we aren't talking about today's bulbs.
Second, you compare single pricing to case pricing on the bulbs.
Third, your bulb life comparison is meaningless.
CFL bulb life varies just like incandescent and a 5x advantage is not typical.
Fourth, your assumption that bulb heat effects overall efficiency is naive and fifth, no CFL produces the quality of light of an incandescent.Finally, you have vastly understated the issue of dimming.
There are CFLs that are dimmable but the capability damages their efficiency and causes their costs to explode plus they don't work well.
Many dimmers don't like CFLs of any kind and just wait til your expensive dimmable CFL fails in 3 weeks and takes your dimmer with it.LEDs are far more promising than CFL but they don't dim either.
Neither touches the beauty of halogen, though I don't expect the typical /.
'er to be able to tell the difference.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606141</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605683</id>
	<title>Daylight CCFL Bulbs FTW</title>
	<author>kms\_one</author>
	<datestamp>1246966440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The "daylight" style ccfls are the only thing I will ever use the rest of my life...ever. This story is irrelevant... so why am I posting? I don't know. Deal with it. (Actually, I blame alcohol)</htmltext>
<tokenext>The " daylight " style ccfls are the only thing I will ever use the rest of my life...ever .
This story is irrelevant... so why am I posting ?
I do n't know .
Deal with it .
( Actually , I blame alcohol )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "daylight" style ccfls are the only thing I will ever use the rest of my life...ever.
This story is irrelevant... so why am I posting?
I don't know.
Deal with it.
(Actually, I blame alcohol)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28612563</id>
	<title>Re:Silly questions</title>
	<author>Chirs</author>
	<datestamp>1246998540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The amount of energy used to start the arc is actually only around 20 seconds worth, so from an electrical usage perspective you're better off turning the light off.</p><p>However, each arc start impacts the bulb life, so from a bulb replacement perspective you're better off leaving the light on as much as possible.</p><p>The crossover point between the two will vary depending on how your power is generated, how much power is required to manufacture a tube, how much tubes cost, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The amount of energy used to start the arc is actually only around 20 seconds worth , so from an electrical usage perspective you 're better off turning the light off.However , each arc start impacts the bulb life , so from a bulb replacement perspective you 're better off leaving the light on as much as possible.The crossover point between the two will vary depending on how your power is generated , how much power is required to manufacture a tube , how much tubes cost , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The amount of energy used to start the arc is actually only around 20 seconds worth, so from an electrical usage perspective you're better off turning the light off.However, each arc start impacts the bulb life, so from a bulb replacement perspective you're better off leaving the light on as much as possible.The crossover point between the two will vary depending on how your power is generated, how much power is required to manufacture a tube, how much tubes cost, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607701</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607881</id>
	<title>Summary is Political BS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246980420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>"A law in the US that is due to take effect in 2012 mandates such tough efficiency standards for lightbulbs that it has been assumed, until recently, that it would kill off the incandescent bulb. Instead, the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical innovation.</p></div></blockquote><p> That is a total crock and just an example of an ecocommunist crusader trying to defend imposing their ideas of whats good for <i>you</i>.</p><blockquote><div><p>  February 23, 2007 08:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time<br>GE Announces Advancement in Incandescent Technology; New High-Efficiency Lamps Targeted for Market by 2010</p><p>Re-inventing Edison: New Light Bulb Will Provide High-Quality Light and Deliver Efficiency Comparable to Compact Fluorescent Lamps</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" A law in the US that is due to take effect in 2012 mandates such tough efficiency standards for lightbulbs that it has been assumed , until recently , that it would kill off the incandescent bulb .
Instead , the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical innovation .
That is a total crock and just an example of an ecocommunist crusader trying to defend imposing their ideas of whats good for you .
February 23 , 2007 08 : 03 AM Eastern Daylight TimeGE Announces Advancement in Incandescent Technology ; New High-Efficiency Lamps Targeted for Market by 2010Re-inventing Edison : New Light Bulb Will Provide High-Quality Light and Deliver Efficiency Comparable to Compact Fluorescent Lamps</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"A law in the US that is due to take effect in 2012 mandates such tough efficiency standards for lightbulbs that it has been assumed, until recently, that it would kill off the incandescent bulb.
Instead, the law has become a case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical innovation.
That is a total crock and just an example of an ecocommunist crusader trying to defend imposing their ideas of whats good for you.
February 23, 2007 08:03 AM Eastern Daylight TimeGE Announces Advancement in Incandescent Technology; New High-Efficiency Lamps Targeted for Market by 2010Re-inventing Edison: New Light Bulb Will Provide High-Quality Light and Deliver Efficiency Comparable to Compact Fluorescent Lamps
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607281</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Sandbags</author>
	<datestamp>1246978260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK, besides the fact this is completely paranoid, the rest of the article was equally interesting and revealing:  <a href="http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change\_light/downloads/Fact\_Sheet\_Mercury.pdf" title="energystar.gov">http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change\_light/downloads/Fact\_Sheet\_Mercury.pdf</a> [energystar.gov]</p><p>We're not talking a lot of mercury here, in fact, we're talking about 2 mg.  Also, this is NOT liquid mercury (elemental mercury) but a mercury compund, and exposure limits are increased accodringly.</p><p>The contamination levels for acceptible CONTINUAL mercury exposure are 0.1MG/m^2.  and that's the AIRBORNE contamination levels...  As mercury in the form inside a CF is not only a solid powder, but even if it is broken, much of this remains inside the tubes, and is never released.  About 0.3gms is typically released from a broken bulb, and most of that is powder on the floor, not in the air.  Since a typical room in a home is about 9-15m^2, this is far below acceptible CONTINUAL contamination levels.  Yea, opening the window is a good idea to avoid immediate exposure, as it turning off fans in the room (though turning off the AC? the filter may actually catch some of it for you...)  However, the powerderd mercury is easy to remove, and only micrograms will remain.</p><p>Also, it is considdered SAFE for drinking water to have up to 0.0001mg/liter.  That means every 1000 litres of water you drink could have nearly 3 times the mercury released when breaking 1 bulb, and you;re not injecting all the mercury released from that bulb either...  The alowable mercury in fish is 10 times higher, meaning every 100 pieces of fish you eat contains that same SAFE dosage again.</p><p>Also note from the EPA that using a CF releases DRAMATICALLY less Mercury into the air, since making electricty releases mercury into the air...  in fact, the mercury in the bulb is maybe 10\% of the total mercury pollution released over that bulbs lifespan.  Also, bulbs disposed of in landfills are considdered safe, as all operating landfills are sealed from leaks before we start putting trash in them, and there has never been a confirmed contamination of a water supply from a landfil (water supplys have benn contaminated from leaks, buy only from facilities, spills, trucking, and other DIRECT contamination events, never from storage in a landfill).</p><p>manufacturers have also reduced the mercury content dramatically over the last 12-18 months, and it continues not only to fall, but methods of ensuring less is released in a breakage have been introduced.</p><p>There is really nothing to fear, unless you plan on licking your floor clean after you break a bulb.  (keeping pets away until it;s been properly scrubbed/vacuumed may still be a good idea though).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , besides the fact this is completely paranoid , the rest of the article was equally interesting and revealing : http : //www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change \ _light/downloads/Fact \ _Sheet \ _Mercury.pdf [ energystar.gov ] We 're not talking a lot of mercury here , in fact , we 're talking about 2 mg. Also , this is NOT liquid mercury ( elemental mercury ) but a mercury compund , and exposure limits are increased accodringly.The contamination levels for acceptible CONTINUAL mercury exposure are 0.1MG/m ^ 2 .
and that 's the AIRBORNE contamination levels... As mercury in the form inside a CF is not only a solid powder , but even if it is broken , much of this remains inside the tubes , and is never released .
About 0.3gms is typically released from a broken bulb , and most of that is powder on the floor , not in the air .
Since a typical room in a home is about 9-15m ^ 2 , this is far below acceptible CONTINUAL contamination levels .
Yea , opening the window is a good idea to avoid immediate exposure , as it turning off fans in the room ( though turning off the AC ?
the filter may actually catch some of it for you... ) However , the powerderd mercury is easy to remove , and only micrograms will remain.Also , it is considdered SAFE for drinking water to have up to 0.0001mg/liter .
That means every 1000 litres of water you drink could have nearly 3 times the mercury released when breaking 1 bulb , and you ; re not injecting all the mercury released from that bulb either... The alowable mercury in fish is 10 times higher , meaning every 100 pieces of fish you eat contains that same SAFE dosage again.Also note from the EPA that using a CF releases DRAMATICALLY less Mercury into the air , since making electricty releases mercury into the air... in fact , the mercury in the bulb is maybe 10 \ % of the total mercury pollution released over that bulbs lifespan .
Also , bulbs disposed of in landfills are considdered safe , as all operating landfills are sealed from leaks before we start putting trash in them , and there has never been a confirmed contamination of a water supply from a landfil ( water supplys have benn contaminated from leaks , buy only from facilities , spills , trucking , and other DIRECT contamination events , never from storage in a landfill ) .manufacturers have also reduced the mercury content dramatically over the last 12-18 months , and it continues not only to fall , but methods of ensuring less is released in a breakage have been introduced.There is really nothing to fear , unless you plan on licking your floor clean after you break a bulb .
( keeping pets away until it ; s been properly scrubbed/vacuumed may still be a good idea though ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, besides the fact this is completely paranoid, the rest of the article was equally interesting and revealing:  http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change\_light/downloads/Fact\_Sheet\_Mercury.pdf [energystar.gov]We're not talking a lot of mercury here, in fact, we're talking about 2 mg.  Also, this is NOT liquid mercury (elemental mercury) but a mercury compund, and exposure limits are increased accodringly.The contamination levels for acceptible CONTINUAL mercury exposure are 0.1MG/m^2.
and that's the AIRBORNE contamination levels...  As mercury in the form inside a CF is not only a solid powder, but even if it is broken, much of this remains inside the tubes, and is never released.
About 0.3gms is typically released from a broken bulb, and most of that is powder on the floor, not in the air.
Since a typical room in a home is about 9-15m^2, this is far below acceptible CONTINUAL contamination levels.
Yea, opening the window is a good idea to avoid immediate exposure, as it turning off fans in the room (though turning off the AC?
the filter may actually catch some of it for you...)  However, the powerderd mercury is easy to remove, and only micrograms will remain.Also, it is considdered SAFE for drinking water to have up to 0.0001mg/liter.
That means every 1000 litres of water you drink could have nearly 3 times the mercury released when breaking 1 bulb, and you;re not injecting all the mercury released from that bulb either...  The alowable mercury in fish is 10 times higher, meaning every 100 pieces of fish you eat contains that same SAFE dosage again.Also note from the EPA that using a CF releases DRAMATICALLY less Mercury into the air, since making electricty releases mercury into the air...  in fact, the mercury in the bulb is maybe 10\% of the total mercury pollution released over that bulbs lifespan.
Also, bulbs disposed of in landfills are considdered safe, as all operating landfills are sealed from leaks before we start putting trash in them, and there has never been a confirmed contamination of a water supply from a landfil (water supplys have benn contaminated from leaks, buy only from facilities, spills, trucking, and other DIRECT contamination events, never from storage in a landfill).manufacturers have also reduced the mercury content dramatically over the last 12-18 months, and it continues not only to fall, but methods of ensuring less is released in a breakage have been introduced.There is really nothing to fear, unless you plan on licking your floor clean after you break a bulb.
(keeping pets away until it;s been properly scrubbed/vacuumed may still be a good idea though).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605883</id>
	<title>General Electric did this years ago</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246969080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GE developed a product over a decade ago called Halogen Infra Red or HIR.</p><p>Essentially a halogen bulb capsule with an Infra Red reflective coating on the inside that reflected the IR energy back onto the filament thus increasing the output.</p><p>This was all packaged into various outer shapes and fittings, like sealed beams for work lamps, headlights and par 38 etc.</p><p>It worked well and allowed for less power to be consumed and the life of the lamps was better than conventional.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GE developed a product over a decade ago called Halogen Infra Red or HIR.Essentially a halogen bulb capsule with an Infra Red reflective coating on the inside that reflected the IR energy back onto the filament thus increasing the output.This was all packaged into various outer shapes and fittings , like sealed beams for work lamps , headlights and par 38 etc.It worked well and allowed for less power to be consumed and the life of the lamps was better than conventional .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GE developed a product over a decade ago called Halogen Infra Red or HIR.Essentially a halogen bulb capsule with an Infra Red reflective coating on the inside that reflected the IR energy back onto the filament thus increasing the output.This was all packaged into various outer shapes and fittings, like sealed beams for work lamps, headlights and par 38 etc.It worked well and allowed for less power to be consumed and the life of the lamps was better than conventional.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605603</id>
	<title>Re:Government Regulation</title>
	<author>khallow</author>
	<datestamp>1246965120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think your concern should be more that pro-government regulation fanatics will read this and think it's an example of proper government regulation. From the "anti-government deregulation fanatic" point of view, the main problem with regulating light bulbs is why should government have anything to do with it. Replacing a $0.25 bulb with a $5 bulb is not a good use of government power. People can do that on their own, if it suits them.<br> <br>

Nor is there a need to reduce electricity consumption. If demand drives up the price of electricity (which it does in relatively deregulated markets), the solution is merely a matter of building more power plants. If it turns out that some forms of power production have unpleasant externalities (ie, impose costs or harm on nonconsenting parties), then a pollution emission market would account for those side effects, effectively billing the problem at the source of the problem rather than trying to change consumer behavior in order to indirectly meet dubious moral goals.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think your concern should be more that pro-government regulation fanatics will read this and think it 's an example of proper government regulation .
From the " anti-government deregulation fanatic " point of view , the main problem with regulating light bulbs is why should government have anything to do with it .
Replacing a $ 0.25 bulb with a $ 5 bulb is not a good use of government power .
People can do that on their own , if it suits them .
Nor is there a need to reduce electricity consumption .
If demand drives up the price of electricity ( which it does in relatively deregulated markets ) , the solution is merely a matter of building more power plants .
If it turns out that some forms of power production have unpleasant externalities ( ie , impose costs or harm on nonconsenting parties ) , then a pollution emission market would account for those side effects , effectively billing the problem at the source of the problem rather than trying to change consumer behavior in order to indirectly meet dubious moral goals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think your concern should be more that pro-government regulation fanatics will read this and think it's an example of proper government regulation.
From the "anti-government deregulation fanatic" point of view, the main problem with regulating light bulbs is why should government have anything to do with it.
Replacing a $0.25 bulb with a $5 bulb is not a good use of government power.
People can do that on their own, if it suits them.
Nor is there a need to reduce electricity consumption.
If demand drives up the price of electricity (which it does in relatively deregulated markets), the solution is merely a matter of building more power plants.
If it turns out that some forms of power production have unpleasant externalities (ie, impose costs or harm on nonconsenting parties), then a pollution emission market would account for those side effects, effectively billing the problem at the source of the problem rather than trying to change consumer behavior in order to indirectly meet dubious moral goals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605369</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28614441</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>LionMage</author>
	<datestamp>1246962900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm surprised none of these instructions mentions anything about cleaning materials that can bind to and "neutralize" the mercury.  I have read that sulfur will bind nicely to mercury, making it easier to clean up a mercury spill or a CFL bulb breakage -- just sprinkle liberally over the area before doing your cleaning.  As a bonus, many garden supply sections of major stores (Home Depot, Wal-Mart, etc.) will carry sulfur in a form suitable for this application.</p><p>Yeah, I wouldn't want to pour the sweepings into someone's mouth and see what happens, but at least it makes the clean-up a little more manageable and less hazardous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised none of these instructions mentions anything about cleaning materials that can bind to and " neutralize " the mercury .
I have read that sulfur will bind nicely to mercury , making it easier to clean up a mercury spill or a CFL bulb breakage -- just sprinkle liberally over the area before doing your cleaning .
As a bonus , many garden supply sections of major stores ( Home Depot , Wal-Mart , etc .
) will carry sulfur in a form suitable for this application.Yeah , I would n't want to pour the sweepings into someone 's mouth and see what happens , but at least it makes the clean-up a little more manageable and less hazardous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm surprised none of these instructions mentions anything about cleaning materials that can bind to and "neutralize" the mercury.
I have read that sulfur will bind nicely to mercury, making it easier to clean up a mercury spill or a CFL bulb breakage -- just sprinkle liberally over the area before doing your cleaning.
As a bonus, many garden supply sections of major stores (Home Depot, Wal-Mart, etc.
) will carry sulfur in a form suitable for this application.Yeah, I wouldn't want to pour the sweepings into someone's mouth and see what happens, but at least it makes the clean-up a little more manageable and less hazardous.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605751</id>
	<title>It *does* however, create another problem.</title>
	<author>WheelDweller</author>
	<datestamp>1246967460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Once again the marketing droids will have to go to work to say the same thing, only differently:</p><p>Light comes outta dis bulb.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:&gt;</p><p>How many different "sunlight equivelant" and "efficient" and similar-sounding ways can you say that?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Once again the marketing droids will have to go to work to say the same thing , only differently : Light comes outta dis bulb .
: &gt; How many different " sunlight equivelant " and " efficient " and similar-sounding ways can you say that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once again the marketing droids will have to go to work to say the same thing, only differently:Light comes outta dis bulb.
:&gt;How many different "sunlight equivelant" and "efficient" and similar-sounding ways can you say that?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605629</id>
	<title>LED Lamps</title>
	<author>Tuqui</author>
	<datestamp>1246965420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LED are already here, costs still high but they beat flourescents bulbs in life span and energy consume, and lightup instantaneously.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LED are already here , costs still high but they beat flourescents bulbs in life span and energy consume , and lightup instantaneously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LED are already here, costs still high but they beat flourescents bulbs in life span and energy consume, and lightup instantaneously.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609281</id>
	<title>"Banning"</title>
	<author>kheldan</author>
	<datestamp>1246985940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They can "ban" something all they want, manufacturers will still make them because people will still want them and will find a way to get them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They can " ban " something all they want , manufacturers will still make them because people will still want them and will find a way to get them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They can "ban" something all they want, manufacturers will still make them because people will still want them and will find a way to get them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607313</id>
	<title>What is wrong with mercury</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246978380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>What is so bad about mercury?  Our science school teacher had a beaker in class and we took turns playing with the stuff - pouring it through our fingers and such.  He did warn us not to eat though.... I tried and it taste a little better than lead paint chips.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What is so bad about mercury ?
Our science school teacher had a beaker in class and we took turns playing with the stuff - pouring it through our fingers and such .
He did warn us not to eat though.... I tried and it taste a little better than lead paint chips .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is so bad about mercury?
Our science school teacher had a beaker in class and we took turns playing with the stuff - pouring it through our fingers and such.
He did warn us not to eat though.... I tried and it taste a little better than lead paint chips.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28608643</id>
	<title>English Bulbs are better</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246983420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I bought bulbs while on vacation in England a few years back. They are made stronger due to the electricity differences. I have not replaced a single English light bulb in the 3 years since my trip. I don't care if they are<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.25 or $5 the less I am in the dark or on the step stool the better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I bought bulbs while on vacation in England a few years back .
They are made stronger due to the electricity differences .
I have not replaced a single English light bulb in the 3 years since my trip .
I do n't care if they are .25 or $ 5 the less I am in the dark or on the step stool the better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bought bulbs while on vacation in England a few years back.
They are made stronger due to the electricity differences.
I have not replaced a single English light bulb in the 3 years since my trip.
I don't care if they are .25 or $5 the less I am in the dark or on the step stool the better.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605459</id>
	<title>cost over life</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246963500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As long as the new bulbs cost more than the old ones + their total consumption in electricity over their lifespan this is a net loss.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As long as the new bulbs cost more than the old ones + their total consumption in electricity over their lifespan this is a net loss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As long as the new bulbs cost more than the old ones + their total consumption in electricity over their lifespan this is a net loss.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605409</id>
	<title>Ceiling mounted illuminated heaters</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246962960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you live somewhere cold, the heat output is useful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you live somewhere cold , the heat output is useful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you live somewhere cold, the heat output is useful.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606139</id>
	<title>Light Bulbs...The LEAST of our worries</title>
	<author>geekmux</author>
	<datestamp>1246971840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cripes, the infamous light bulb efficiency gimmick again.  What's next, we gonna tie light bulb usage to Global Warming?</p><p>Seriously, any of you ever actually take a measurement of your electric usage in your house?  Instead of screwing with 60W of light you use really only part of the day, take a look at your A/C unit.  Older A/C units under 10 SEER drawing 20A or more will suck $80 - $120/month out of your wallet while new ones will draw less than 1/2 of that (7 - 10A).  A dryer that runs 2 hours a day (not hard for a family of four) will run over $30/month pulling 20A.  Own a pool?  Average 1HP pump will suck another $25 - $35/month from your wallet if you run it according to what you've heard is "the norm".  Geek running a server farm out of your home powered 24/7?  Had a measly el-cheapo Dell headless tower that ran me $10/month by itself.</p><p>Point here is there's a HELL of a lot MORE we can fine tune and adjust lifestyles around to save a hell of a lot more than that 60W light bulb that you don't even turn off when you leave a room anyway.</p><p>Technology for Al Gores sake is not always necessary.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cripes , the infamous light bulb efficiency gimmick again .
What 's next , we gon na tie light bulb usage to Global Warming ? Seriously , any of you ever actually take a measurement of your electric usage in your house ?
Instead of screwing with 60W of light you use really only part of the day , take a look at your A/C unit .
Older A/C units under 10 SEER drawing 20A or more will suck $ 80 - $ 120/month out of your wallet while new ones will draw less than 1/2 of that ( 7 - 10A ) .
A dryer that runs 2 hours a day ( not hard for a family of four ) will run over $ 30/month pulling 20A .
Own a pool ?
Average 1HP pump will suck another $ 25 - $ 35/month from your wallet if you run it according to what you 've heard is " the norm " .
Geek running a server farm out of your home powered 24/7 ?
Had a measly el-cheapo Dell headless tower that ran me $ 10/month by itself.Point here is there 's a HELL of a lot MORE we can fine tune and adjust lifestyles around to save a hell of a lot more than that 60W light bulb that you do n't even turn off when you leave a room anyway.Technology for Al Gores sake is not always necessary .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cripes, the infamous light bulb efficiency gimmick again.
What's next, we gonna tie light bulb usage to Global Warming?Seriously, any of you ever actually take a measurement of your electric usage in your house?
Instead of screwing with 60W of light you use really only part of the day, take a look at your A/C unit.
Older A/C units under 10 SEER drawing 20A or more will suck $80 - $120/month out of your wallet while new ones will draw less than 1/2 of that (7 - 10A).
A dryer that runs 2 hours a day (not hard for a family of four) will run over $30/month pulling 20A.
Own a pool?
Average 1HP pump will suck another $25 - $35/month from your wallet if you run it according to what you've heard is "the norm".
Geek running a server farm out of your home powered 24/7?
Had a measly el-cheapo Dell headless tower that ran me $10/month by itself.Point here is there's a HELL of a lot MORE we can fine tune and adjust lifestyles around to save a hell of a lot more than that 60W light bulb that you don't even turn off when you leave a room anyway.Technology for Al Gores sake is not always necessary.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605481</id>
	<title>Re:30\% efficiency gain is even easier:</title>
	<author>eoinmadden</author>
	<datestamp>1246963620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't that what the story in the link is mainly about?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't that what the story in the link is mainly about ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't that what the story in the link is mainly about?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28618651</id>
	<title>Re:Lame</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247083560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>o.. and why does my car from 1997 get the same MPG as all the new ones that don't have massive arrays of lead acid battery's?</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>No freaking joke!  I have a 2000 Honda Accord.  Nothing fancy but I get somewhere around 28+ mpg on average.  The fancy pants cars are getting like 32mpg - 34mpg.</p><p>Seriously, someone should run an add campaign on TV.<br>1.  Look 200 yards down the road and see if the light is green, if it is, you're probably going to miss it, just COAST to the light.  Don't give it tons of gas and then slam on the breaks at the red light.<br>2.  When stopped at a light and given a green light, don't slam on the gas.  Take your foot off the gas, slowly ease on the gas and try to assess if you're going to make the next light or not.  If not, just coast at a comfortable speed to not piss anyone else off, don't go racing to the next red light.<br>3.  In traffic, leave space between you and the car in front of you.  Practice driving in traffic with only your brake pedal instead of brake, gas, brake, gas, brake, gas.  Some idiot driver might sneak in between you and the car in front of you, big deal, you're saving gas and you'll get home around the exact same time, plus or minus a few minutes.  Worth the savings in gas.<br>4.  Try slowing down by just taking your foot off the gas pedal instead of using the brake.  Many people sit there shifting between brake, gas, brake, gas, etc.  Just edging a mile + or - and going back and fourth.  Drives me nuts.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>o.. and why does my car from 1997 get the same MPG as all the new ones that do n't have massive arrays of lead acid battery 's ?
No freaking joke !
I have a 2000 Honda Accord .
Nothing fancy but I get somewhere around 28 + mpg on average .
The fancy pants cars are getting like 32mpg - 34mpg.Seriously , someone should run an add campaign on TV.1 .
Look 200 yards down the road and see if the light is green , if it is , you 're probably going to miss it , just COAST to the light .
Do n't give it tons of gas and then slam on the breaks at the red light.2 .
When stopped at a light and given a green light , do n't slam on the gas .
Take your foot off the gas , slowly ease on the gas and try to assess if you 're going to make the next light or not .
If not , just coast at a comfortable speed to not piss anyone else off , do n't go racing to the next red light.3 .
In traffic , leave space between you and the car in front of you .
Practice driving in traffic with only your brake pedal instead of brake , gas , brake , gas , brake , gas .
Some idiot driver might sneak in between you and the car in front of you , big deal , you 're saving gas and you 'll get home around the exact same time , plus or minus a few minutes .
Worth the savings in gas.4 .
Try slowing down by just taking your foot off the gas pedal instead of using the brake .
Many people sit there shifting between brake , gas , brake , gas , etc .
Just edging a mile + or - and going back and fourth .
Drives me nuts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> o.. and why does my car from 1997 get the same MPG as all the new ones that don't have massive arrays of lead acid battery's?
No freaking joke!
I have a 2000 Honda Accord.
Nothing fancy but I get somewhere around 28+ mpg on average.
The fancy pants cars are getting like 32mpg - 34mpg.Seriously, someone should run an add campaign on TV.1.
Look 200 yards down the road and see if the light is green, if it is, you're probably going to miss it, just COAST to the light.
Don't give it tons of gas and then slam on the breaks at the red light.2.
When stopped at a light and given a green light, don't slam on the gas.
Take your foot off the gas, slowly ease on the gas and try to assess if you're going to make the next light or not.
If not, just coast at a comfortable speed to not piss anyone else off, don't go racing to the next red light.3.
In traffic, leave space between you and the car in front of you.
Practice driving in traffic with only your brake pedal instead of brake, gas, brake, gas, brake, gas.
Some idiot driver might sneak in between you and the car in front of you, big deal, you're saving gas and you'll get home around the exact same time, plus or minus a few minutes.
Worth the savings in gas.4.
Try slowing down by just taking your foot off the gas pedal instead of using the brake.
Many people sit there shifting between brake, gas, brake, gas, etc.
Just edging a mile + or - and going back and fourth.
Drives me nuts.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606721</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>NineNine</author>
	<datestamp>1246975620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, fluorescent lights come in all kinds of color spectrums.  I buy the warm ones, and nobody can tell the difference between them and incandescents!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , fluorescent lights come in all kinds of color spectrums .
I buy the warm ones , and nobody can tell the difference between them and incandescents !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, fluorescent lights come in all kinds of color spectrums.
I buy the warm ones, and nobody can tell the difference between them and incandescents!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605671</id>
	<title>PIR Passive Infared</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246966140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look up PIR in the bulb catalogs.  They've been making these for a while.  They shape the internal glass envelope and coat its inside surface such that it reflects a portion of the waste-heat (infrared) energy back towards the filament.  In the steady-state, this changes the ratio of spectrum of energy emitted from the bulb (slightly increasing the percentage released in the visible band).  Compared to fluorescent, especially the new T2 designs, its still pretty pathetic.</p><p>HOWEVER, if you've got a car and can't afford to install HID headlight conversions, there are PIR halogens available.  They provide a little bit more output.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look up PIR in the bulb catalogs .
They 've been making these for a while .
They shape the internal glass envelope and coat its inside surface such that it reflects a portion of the waste-heat ( infrared ) energy back towards the filament .
In the steady-state , this changes the ratio of spectrum of energy emitted from the bulb ( slightly increasing the percentage released in the visible band ) .
Compared to fluorescent , especially the new T2 designs , its still pretty pathetic.HOWEVER , if you 've got a car and ca n't afford to install HID headlight conversions , there are PIR halogens available .
They provide a little bit more output .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look up PIR in the bulb catalogs.
They've been making these for a while.
They shape the internal glass envelope and coat its inside surface such that it reflects a portion of the waste-heat (infrared) energy back towards the filament.
In the steady-state, this changes the ratio of spectrum of energy emitted from the bulb (slightly increasing the percentage released in the visible band).
Compared to fluorescent, especially the new T2 designs, its still pretty pathetic.HOWEVER, if you've got a car and can't afford to install HID headlight conversions, there are PIR halogens available.
They provide a little bit more output.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605449</id>
	<title>New invention?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246963440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is called a halogen light bulb. Nothing new, they just put halogen light bulbs inside a regular light bulb. Some innovation my ass.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is called a halogen light bulb .
Nothing new , they just put halogen light bulbs inside a regular light bulb .
Some innovation my ass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is called a halogen light bulb.
Nothing new, they just put halogen light bulbs inside a regular light bulb.
Some innovation my ass.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28608063</id>
	<title>Re:lasers?</title>
	<author>nschubach</author>
	<datestamp>1246981200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No way!  Warp drive has been proven to cause birth defects in cattle on the moon near the initiation point of the warp bubble.  Now just think about what it's doing to the human children here on Earth!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No way !
Warp drive has been proven to cause birth defects in cattle on the moon near the initiation point of the warp bubble .
Now just think about what it 's doing to the human children here on Earth !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No way!
Warp drive has been proven to cause birth defects in cattle on the moon near the initiation point of the warp bubble.
Now just think about what it's doing to the human children here on Earth!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606727</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605625</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246965300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gotta tell ya, I replaced all the lights in my house with the newer fluorescent bulbs, both white and warm, over a year ago and I can now no longer stand the light output of the incandescent bulbs; it seems too harsh.  Go figure.  I guess humans just adapt.</p><p>The white light works very well in rooms like the bathroom, toilet, shed and kitchen.  The warmer lights almost everywhere else.  People really need to stop throwing tantrums.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Got ta tell ya , I replaced all the lights in my house with the newer fluorescent bulbs , both white and warm , over a year ago and I can now no longer stand the light output of the incandescent bulbs ; it seems too harsh .
Go figure .
I guess humans just adapt.The white light works very well in rooms like the bathroom , toilet , shed and kitchen .
The warmer lights almost everywhere else .
People really need to stop throwing tantrums .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gotta tell ya, I replaced all the lights in my house with the newer fluorescent bulbs, both white and warm, over a year ago and I can now no longer stand the light output of the incandescent bulbs; it seems too harsh.
Go figure.
I guess humans just adapt.The white light works very well in rooms like the bathroom, toilet, shed and kitchen.
The warmer lights almost everywhere else.
People really need to stop throwing tantrums.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606069</id>
	<title>CFL's can't be used everwhere</title>
	<author>scharkalvin</author>
	<datestamp>1246971240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A TOTAL ban on incandescent lamps?  I think not.  You can't put CFL's in the 'fridge.  They won't work in ovens.  They don't work worth a damn<br>with dimmers (I've tried several "dimmable" CLF's, they have a range of maybe 20\%).  Until they make CFL's or way cheaper LED bulbs equal to 60-100W incandescent lamps that work with a dimmer, I'll keep the "Edison bulbs" in my dimmable fixtures, even If I have to buy black market lamps from Korea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A TOTAL ban on incandescent lamps ?
I think not .
You ca n't put CFL 's in the 'fridge .
They wo n't work in ovens .
They do n't work worth a damnwith dimmers ( I 've tried several " dimmable " CLF 's , they have a range of maybe 20 \ % ) .
Until they make CFL 's or way cheaper LED bulbs equal to 60-100W incandescent lamps that work with a dimmer , I 'll keep the " Edison bulbs " in my dimmable fixtures , even If I have to buy black market lamps from Korea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A TOTAL ban on incandescent lamps?
I think not.
You can't put CFL's in the 'fridge.
They won't work in ovens.
They don't work worth a damnwith dimmers (I've tried several "dimmable" CLF's, they have a range of maybe 20\%).
Until they make CFL's or way cheaper LED bulbs equal to 60-100W incandescent lamps that work with a dimmer, I'll keep the "Edison bulbs" in my dimmable fixtures, even If I have to buy black market lamps from Korea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606045</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>BenevolentP</author>
	<datestamp>1246970880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>17. Carefully wash your hands after enclosing your former home in a cement/concrete sarcophagus</htmltext>
<tokenext>17 .
Carefully wash your hands after enclosing your former home in a cement/concrete sarcophagus</tokentext>
<sentencetext>17.
Carefully wash your hands after enclosing your former home in a cement/concrete sarcophagus</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607823</id>
	<title>I still burn old incandescents.  CFL's are a joke</title>
	<author>Sir\_Real</author>
	<datestamp>1246980300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lighting is less than 6\% of energy footprint.  CFL's are 10x more expensive than incandescents, contain mercury, don't last as long as advertised (in fact, in my house they only last as long as incandescents) and cast a bare sickly palette.  CFL's are just a waste of money.  Perhaps there is an ideal living space where CFL's last the full 5 years, don't make walls look grey/blue and cost less than five bucks a pop (.88 for four incandescents at kroger).</p><p>I took the money I had allocated towards CFL's and put it into insulation with a higher R-value.  Heating and cooling expenses are down 10\%.  Far more savings in energy and money than CFL's, and my reading lamp doesn't suck the contrast off the page I'm looking at anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lighting is less than 6 \ % of energy footprint .
CFL 's are 10x more expensive than incandescents , contain mercury , do n't last as long as advertised ( in fact , in my house they only last as long as incandescents ) and cast a bare sickly palette .
CFL 's are just a waste of money .
Perhaps there is an ideal living space where CFL 's last the full 5 years , do n't make walls look grey/blue and cost less than five bucks a pop ( .88 for four incandescents at kroger ) .I took the money I had allocated towards CFL 's and put it into insulation with a higher R-value .
Heating and cooling expenses are down 10 \ % .
Far more savings in energy and money than CFL 's , and my reading lamp does n't suck the contrast off the page I 'm looking at anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lighting is less than 6\% of energy footprint.
CFL's are 10x more expensive than incandescents, contain mercury, don't last as long as advertised (in fact, in my house they only last as long as incandescents) and cast a bare sickly palette.
CFL's are just a waste of money.
Perhaps there is an ideal living space where CFL's last the full 5 years, don't make walls look grey/blue and cost less than five bucks a pop (.88 for four incandescents at kroger).I took the money I had allocated towards CFL's and put it into insulation with a higher R-value.
Heating and cooling expenses are down 10\%.
Far more savings in energy and money than CFL's, and my reading lamp doesn't suck the contrast off the page I'm looking at anymore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609589</id>
	<title>Re:Government Regulation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246987080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Replacing a $0.25 bulb with a $5 bulb is not a good use of government power. People can do that on their own, if it suits them.</p></div><p>Some people will always go for the cheaper up front cost without considering the potential savings in the long term. Others may well want the better option but can't afford it until they've realized the savings. It's the same chicken and egg problem you have with home weatherization. However, I suspect most people fall into the "if it ain't broke don't replace it" category in which case the regulation doesn't affect them since they're not shopping for new bulbs anyway.</p><p>I suppose you wish we were all still using leaded gasoline, lead paint, asbestos insulation, ammonia air conditioners, etc. Governments are uniquely suited to promote the public good where there is no meaningful market incentive for doing so (or where market incentives work against the public good). Regulation is just one tool for doing that. Of course, having a hammer doesn't mean you should treat everything like a nail.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Replacing a $ 0.25 bulb with a $ 5 bulb is not a good use of government power .
People can do that on their own , if it suits them.Some people will always go for the cheaper up front cost without considering the potential savings in the long term .
Others may well want the better option but ca n't afford it until they 've realized the savings .
It 's the same chicken and egg problem you have with home weatherization .
However , I suspect most people fall into the " if it ai n't broke do n't replace it " category in which case the regulation does n't affect them since they 're not shopping for new bulbs anyway.I suppose you wish we were all still using leaded gasoline , lead paint , asbestos insulation , ammonia air conditioners , etc .
Governments are uniquely suited to promote the public good where there is no meaningful market incentive for doing so ( or where market incentives work against the public good ) .
Regulation is just one tool for doing that .
Of course , having a hammer does n't mean you should treat everything like a nail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Replacing a $0.25 bulb with a $5 bulb is not a good use of government power.
People can do that on their own, if it suits them.Some people will always go for the cheaper up front cost without considering the potential savings in the long term.
Others may well want the better option but can't afford it until they've realized the savings.
It's the same chicken and egg problem you have with home weatherization.
However, I suspect most people fall into the "if it ain't broke don't replace it" category in which case the regulation doesn't affect them since they're not shopping for new bulbs anyway.I suppose you wish we were all still using leaded gasoline, lead paint, asbestos insulation, ammonia air conditioners, etc.
Governments are uniquely suited to promote the public good where there is no meaningful market incentive for doing so (or where market incentives work against the public good).
Regulation is just one tool for doing that.
Of course, having a hammer doesn't mean you should treat everything like a nail.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605603</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28608993</id>
	<title>Re:Lame</title>
	<author>Pontiac</author>
	<datestamp>1246984800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What ever happened to microwave lighting that I saw on TV over a decade ago that was going to kick ass???</p></div><p>It's right here.</p><p><a href="http://www.lge.co.kr/cokr/product/lighting/light\_01\_list.jsp" title="lge.co.kr">http://www.lge.co.kr/cokr/product/lighting/light\_01\_list.jsp</a> [lge.co.kr]</p><p>The original company folded up in 2002, LG and a few other companys bought up the patents and are now starting to market the lights again.</p><p>Wiki on Sulfer-RF<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur\_lamp" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur\_lamp</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>List of locations using Sulfur-RF lighting<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_sulfur\_lamp\_installations" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_sulfur\_lamp\_installations</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What ever happened to microwave lighting that I saw on TV over a decade ago that was going to kick ass ? ?
? It 's right here.http : //www.lge.co.kr/cokr/product/lighting/light \ _01 \ _list.jsp [ lge.co.kr ] The original company folded up in 2002 , LG and a few other companys bought up the patents and are now starting to market the lights again.Wiki on Sulfer-RFhttp : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur \ _lamp [ wikipedia.org ] List of locations using Sulfur-RF lightinghttp : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List \ _of \ _sulfur \ _lamp \ _installations [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What ever happened to microwave lighting that I saw on TV over a decade ago that was going to kick ass??
?It's right here.http://www.lge.co.kr/cokr/product/lighting/light\_01\_list.jsp [lge.co.kr]The original company folded up in 2002, LG and a few other companys bought up the patents and are now starting to market the lights again.Wiki on Sulfer-RFhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur\_lamp [wikipedia.org]List of locations using Sulfur-RF lightinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_sulfur\_lamp\_installations [wikipedia.org]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610977</id>
	<title>Re:Strip lights</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246992600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ever had to deal with your girlfriend/spouse complaining about putting on makeup in the harsh blue of a flourescent light?</p><p>Oh, wait, this is slashdot; no you haven't...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ever had to deal with your girlfriend/spouse complaining about putting on makeup in the harsh blue of a flourescent light ? Oh , wait , this is slashdot ; no you have n't.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ever had to deal with your girlfriend/spouse complaining about putting on makeup in the harsh blue of a flourescent light?Oh, wait, this is slashdot; no you haven't...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605715</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610063</id>
	<title>Re:Lame</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1246989000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm assuming you're talking about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodeless\_lamp" title="wikipedia.org">inductive lamps</a> [wikipedia.org].</p><p>They're available, not horribly expensive, and can theoretically last for about 22 years if you turn them off at night.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm assuming you 're talking about inductive lamps [ wikipedia.org ] .They 're available , not horribly expensive , and can theoretically last for about 22 years if you turn them off at night .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm assuming you're talking about inductive lamps [wikipedia.org].They're available, not horribly expensive, and can theoretically last for about 22 years if you turn them off at night.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605979</id>
	<title>Re:Government Regulation</title>
	<author>Teckla</author>
	<datestamp>1246970220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I think your concern should be more that pro-government regulation fanatics will read this and think it's an example of proper government regulation.</p></div><p>Nice troll. Start out by labeling your opponents in a derogatory way.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>From the "anti-government deregulation fanatic" point of view, the main problem with regulating light bulbs is why should government have anything to do with it.</p></div><p>I have an idea. To keep with the spirit of your post, let's call them the "market-can-do-no-wrong/government-can-do-no-right worshiper cult".</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Replacing a $0.25 bulb with a $5 bulb is not a good use of government power.</p></div><p>Ignoring your cherry-picked numbers for a moment, yes, it's a good use of government power. The market rarely factors in externalized costs. The extra CO2 produced by burning inefficient bulbs impacts everyone's environment.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>If it turns out that some forms of power production have unpleasant externalities (ie, impose costs or harm on nonconsenting parties), then a pollution emission market would account for those side effects, effectively billing the problem at the source of the problem rather than trying to change consumer behavior in order to indirectly meet dubious moral goals.</p></div><p>A "pollution emission market"? LOL! Good one! Sorry for calling you a troll, I didn't realize you were merely trying to be funny. Ha ha! I've got to tell my friends that one! A "pollution control market"! Tee-hee!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think your concern should be more that pro-government regulation fanatics will read this and think it 's an example of proper government regulation.Nice troll .
Start out by labeling your opponents in a derogatory way.From the " anti-government deregulation fanatic " point of view , the main problem with regulating light bulbs is why should government have anything to do with it.I have an idea .
To keep with the spirit of your post , let 's call them the " market-can-do-no-wrong/government-can-do-no-right worshiper cult " .Replacing a $ 0.25 bulb with a $ 5 bulb is not a good use of government power.Ignoring your cherry-picked numbers for a moment , yes , it 's a good use of government power .
The market rarely factors in externalized costs .
The extra CO2 produced by burning inefficient bulbs impacts everyone 's environment.If it turns out that some forms of power production have unpleasant externalities ( ie , impose costs or harm on nonconsenting parties ) , then a pollution emission market would account for those side effects , effectively billing the problem at the source of the problem rather than trying to change consumer behavior in order to indirectly meet dubious moral goals.A " pollution emission market " ?
LOL ! Good one !
Sorry for calling you a troll , I did n't realize you were merely trying to be funny .
Ha ha !
I 've got to tell my friends that one !
A " pollution control market " !
Tee-hee !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think your concern should be more that pro-government regulation fanatics will read this and think it's an example of proper government regulation.Nice troll.
Start out by labeling your opponents in a derogatory way.From the "anti-government deregulation fanatic" point of view, the main problem with regulating light bulbs is why should government have anything to do with it.I have an idea.
To keep with the spirit of your post, let's call them the "market-can-do-no-wrong/government-can-do-no-right worshiper cult".Replacing a $0.25 bulb with a $5 bulb is not a good use of government power.Ignoring your cherry-picked numbers for a moment, yes, it's a good use of government power.
The market rarely factors in externalized costs.
The extra CO2 produced by burning inefficient bulbs impacts everyone's environment.If it turns out that some forms of power production have unpleasant externalities (ie, impose costs or harm on nonconsenting parties), then a pollution emission market would account for those side effects, effectively billing the problem at the source of the problem rather than trying to change consumer behavior in order to indirectly meet dubious moral goals.A "pollution emission market"?
LOL! Good one!
Sorry for calling you a troll, I didn't realize you were merely trying to be funny.
Ha ha!
I've got to tell my friends that one!
A "pollution control market"!
Tee-hee!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605603</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605855</id>
	<title>Lame</title>
	<author>ae1294</author>
	<datestamp>1246968780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What ever happened to microwave lighting that I saw on TV over a decade ago that was going to kick ass???</p><p>and where is my flying car and VR sex slave.</p><p>o.. and why does my car from 1997 get the same MPG as all the new ones that don't have massive arrays of lead acid battery's?</p><p>The light bulb is lame. I want my damn sharks with flipp'en lasers and you need to get off my LAN son....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What ever happened to microwave lighting that I saw on TV over a decade ago that was going to kick ass ? ?
? and where is my flying car and VR sex slave.o.. and why does my car from 1997 get the same MPG as all the new ones that do n't have massive arrays of lead acid battery 's ? The light bulb is lame .
I want my damn sharks with flipp'en lasers and you need to get off my LAN son... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What ever happened to microwave lighting that I saw on TV over a decade ago that was going to kick ass??
?and where is my flying car and VR sex slave.o.. and why does my car from 1997 get the same MPG as all the new ones that don't have massive arrays of lead acid battery's?The light bulb is lame.
I want my damn sharks with flipp'en lasers and you need to get off my LAN son....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28618593</id>
	<title>Re:Strip lights</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246996320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>What you do in your dungeon is your own business.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What you do in your dungeon is your own business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What you do in your dungeon is your own business.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605715</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605353</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246962480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uh.. you can't just stick the bulb in the recycle bin.  You have to dispose of it in the  proper recycle bin.  (and live in a community that <em>has</em> a proper recycle bin for mercury containing bulbs.  Mine has a "special dispensation" for CFLs, so if I want my bulbs recycled I have to go out of my way to make sure it happens.  Way out of my way.  either a 30 minute drive to home depot which I think might work, or an hour and a half drive to the recycle company.  by appointment.  on specific days only.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh.. you ca n't just stick the bulb in the recycle bin .
You have to dispose of it in the proper recycle bin .
( and live in a community that has a proper recycle bin for mercury containing bulbs .
Mine has a " special dispensation " for CFLs , so if I want my bulbs recycled I have to go out of my way to make sure it happens .
Way out of my way .
either a 30 minute drive to home depot which I think might work , or an hour and a half drive to the recycle company .
by appointment .
on specific days only .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh.. you can't just stick the bulb in the recycle bin.
You have to dispose of it in the  proper recycle bin.
(and live in a community that has a proper recycle bin for mercury containing bulbs.
Mine has a "special dispensation" for CFLs, so if I want my bulbs recycled I have to go out of my way to make sure it happens.
Way out of my way.
either a 30 minute drive to home depot which I think might work, or an hour and a half drive to the recycle company.
by appointment.
on specific days only.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605299</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607701</id>
	<title>Silly questions</title>
	<author>DaveAtFraud</author>
	<datestamp>1246979880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The "rule of thumb" for the old, straight tube florescent bulbs bulbs was to only turn them off if you weren't going to be needing the light again for at least fifteen minutes.  This is due to the start up energy costs to establish the initial arc in the gas.  First question: Do CFLs have the same or similar start up costs?  If so, it would seem that old style incandescent bulbs should still be used where the light is frequently turned on and off and, typically, the light only remains on for short periods of time (e.g., a bathroom light, closet light, refrigerator light, etc.).  Second question: Is this "leave it on" period different for CFLs?</p><p>Cheers,<br>Dave</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The " rule of thumb " for the old , straight tube florescent bulbs bulbs was to only turn them off if you were n't going to be needing the light again for at least fifteen minutes .
This is due to the start up energy costs to establish the initial arc in the gas .
First question : Do CFLs have the same or similar start up costs ?
If so , it would seem that old style incandescent bulbs should still be used where the light is frequently turned on and off and , typically , the light only remains on for short periods of time ( e.g. , a bathroom light , closet light , refrigerator light , etc. ) .
Second question : Is this " leave it on " period different for CFLs ? Cheers,Dave</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "rule of thumb" for the old, straight tube florescent bulbs bulbs was to only turn them off if you weren't going to be needing the light again for at least fifteen minutes.
This is due to the start up energy costs to establish the initial arc in the gas.
First question: Do CFLs have the same or similar start up costs?
If so, it would seem that old style incandescent bulbs should still be used where the light is frequently turned on and off and, typically, the light only remains on for short periods of time (e.g., a bathroom light, closet light, refrigerator light, etc.).
Second question: Is this "leave it on" period different for CFLs?Cheers,Dave</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609915</id>
	<title>Re:lasers?</title>
	<author>LoadWB</author>
	<datestamp>1246988520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then there is this</p><p>Slashdot | GE Announces Advancement in Incandescent Technology<br><a href="http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/26/1916211" title="slashdot.org">http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/26/1916211</a> [slashdot.org]</p><p>GE had been working on this technology long before the government mandates reared.  What I find amazing is the government tends to act like ineffective middle management: you take an idea already in development and find some way to quash it or wait until right before reveal, then institute a new policy exactly as planned, perhaps with minor personalizing tweaks; everyone jumps on-board because it was already in progress, and the presenter looks like a genius.</p><p>I have dealt with enough managers like this to recognize the tactics and know that these governments are full of shit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then there is thisSlashdot | GE Announces Advancement in Incandescent Technologyhttp : //hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl ? sid = 07/02/26/1916211 [ slashdot.org ] GE had been working on this technology long before the government mandates reared .
What I find amazing is the government tends to act like ineffective middle management : you take an idea already in development and find some way to quash it or wait until right before reveal , then institute a new policy exactly as planned , perhaps with minor personalizing tweaks ; everyone jumps on-board because it was already in progress , and the presenter looks like a genius.I have dealt with enough managers like this to recognize the tactics and know that these governments are full of shit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then there is thisSlashdot | GE Announces Advancement in Incandescent Technologyhttp://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/26/1916211 [slashdot.org]GE had been working on this technology long before the government mandates reared.
What I find amazing is the government tends to act like ineffective middle management: you take an idea already in development and find some way to quash it or wait until right before reveal, then institute a new policy exactly as planned, perhaps with minor personalizing tweaks; everyone jumps on-board because it was already in progress, and the presenter looks like a genius.I have dealt with enough managers like this to recognize the tactics and know that these governments are full of shit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606727</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607193</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246977960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Are <i>flourescents</i> smelling like wheat ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Are flourescents smelling like wheat ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are flourescents smelling like wheat ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606525</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609687</id>
	<title>Re:Government Regulation</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1246987500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The anti-government regulation crowd would claim that a pollution emission market is just a government regulation in disguise. Both sides would note (probably correctly) that the payments for emitting pollution somehow don't end up in the hands of those who actually suffer ill effects from the emitted pollution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The anti-government regulation crowd would claim that a pollution emission market is just a government regulation in disguise .
Both sides would note ( probably correctly ) that the payments for emitting pollution somehow do n't end up in the hands of those who actually suffer ill effects from the emitted pollution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The anti-government regulation crowd would claim that a pollution emission market is just a government regulation in disguise.
Both sides would note (probably correctly) that the payments for emitting pollution somehow don't end up in the hands of those who actually suffer ill effects from the emitted pollution.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605603</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28656287</id>
	<title>TESLA invented everything</title>
	<author>VirtualJWN</author>
	<datestamp>1247230380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wrote this at 06:00 CST, so if I copied someone else's post sorry, and no I didn't realize it was his birthday til later today.

Nikola Tesla patented this light, flourescent, halogen, mercury, neon, etc in the 1800's.

He even had lights that used only one, and some with no wires at all.

Also created an "earthquake machine", and lots of other truly amazing devices.

Same as the "new discovery" of transmitting electrical power wirelessly.

Amazing how our science is dribbled out of a faucet whenever it is convenient or expedient to large corporations.

Tesla basically set George Westinghouse up with AC power.

Tesla (not the rock band) also invented the FAX, Super Scalar Technology, The AC power system (polyphasic), remote controlled vehicles, etc.

Amazing how few people have heard of him, yet his legacy surrounds us daily.

Amazing in 110 years, we haven't discovered anything.

No diseases cured in almost 50 years (like Chris Rock comedy bit talks about).

TV was invented in the 1920's by Philo T. Farnsworth (a Nebraska High School Student).

Where do things like this go today?

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Jim</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wrote this at 06 : 00 CST , so if I copied someone else 's post sorry , and no I did n't realize it was his birthday til later today .
Nikola Tesla patented this light , flourescent , halogen , mercury , neon , etc in the 1800 's .
He even had lights that used only one , and some with no wires at all .
Also created an " earthquake machine " , and lots of other truly amazing devices .
Same as the " new discovery " of transmitting electrical power wirelessly .
Amazing how our science is dribbled out of a faucet whenever it is convenient or expedient to large corporations .
Tesla basically set George Westinghouse up with AC power .
Tesla ( not the rock band ) also invented the FAX , Super Scalar Technology , The AC power system ( polyphasic ) , remote controlled vehicles , etc .
Amazing how few people have heard of him , yet his legacy surrounds us daily .
Amazing in 110 years , we have n't discovered anything .
No diseases cured in almost 50 years ( like Chris Rock comedy bit talks about ) .
TV was invented in the 1920 's by Philo T. Farnsworth ( a Nebraska High School Student ) .
Where do things like this go today ?
Makes you wonder does n't it ?
Jim</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wrote this at 06:00 CST, so if I copied someone else's post sorry, and no I didn't realize it was his birthday til later today.
Nikola Tesla patented this light, flourescent, halogen, mercury, neon, etc in the 1800's.
He even had lights that used only one, and some with no wires at all.
Also created an "earthquake machine", and lots of other truly amazing devices.
Same as the "new discovery" of transmitting electrical power wirelessly.
Amazing how our science is dribbled out of a faucet whenever it is convenient or expedient to large corporations.
Tesla basically set George Westinghouse up with AC power.
Tesla (not the rock band) also invented the FAX, Super Scalar Technology, The AC power system (polyphasic), remote controlled vehicles, etc.
Amazing how few people have heard of him, yet his legacy surrounds us daily.
Amazing in 110 years, we haven't discovered anything.
No diseases cured in almost 50 years (like Chris Rock comedy bit talks about).
TV was invented in the 1920's by Philo T. Farnsworth (a Nebraska High School Student).
Where do things like this go today?
Makes you wonder doesn't it?
Jim</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610889</id>
	<title>Re:only 30\% more efficient?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246992240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1) Mandate light bulbs that save 10 cents a month.<br>2) Mandate people drive or send trucks around specifically to recycle these mercury bulbs.<br>3) See that it costs several dollars in gas to get said bulbs to recycling center.<br>4) Rake in new fuel usage money. (Profit)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) Mandate light bulbs that save 10 cents a month.2 ) Mandate people drive or send trucks around specifically to recycle these mercury bulbs.3 ) See that it costs several dollars in gas to get said bulbs to recycling center.4 ) Rake in new fuel usage money .
( Profit )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) Mandate light bulbs that save 10 cents a month.2) Mandate people drive or send trucks around specifically to recycle these mercury bulbs.3) See that it costs several dollars in gas to get said bulbs to recycling center.4) Rake in new fuel usage money.
(Profit)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607797</id>
	<title>Re:Visually handicapped</title>
	<author>Sandbags</author>
	<datestamp>1246980180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, this is a generalization.  Allow me to use a few to show you why:</p><p>The majority of people with reduced vision are elderly, or approaching it.  Elderly generally are cheap, and also generally not up on technology or technical terms.  Things like Lumens, Color Temp, etc are mysterious to the majority of them.</p><p>Take cheap people with a lack of technical knowledge, send them to Walmart (their store of choice), where 90\% of the CFs are low grade and available only in 2700K color temp, and they'll buy the cheapest per-dollar bulbs.</p><p>Then ask these people how they like their cheap-ass lighting and you'll find they don't like it.  Ask a person used to a pwerformance computer how they like their $399 Dell special, or how someone used to a caddilack likes a Dodge neon and you'll get much the same response.  My father was the exact same way, and continaully complained about the CF bulbs his power company gave him free (they gave each coop meber a dozen).  He liked the light in my house, and wanted to know what I used.  He was shocked to find i used all CFs, aven in the dimming lights and amber dining room lighting.  I spent about $2 more per bulb than what he finds commonly available, but over the life of the bulb, it;s still far cheaper than what he thought he needed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , this is a generalization .
Allow me to use a few to show you why : The majority of people with reduced vision are elderly , or approaching it .
Elderly generally are cheap , and also generally not up on technology or technical terms .
Things like Lumens , Color Temp , etc are mysterious to the majority of them.Take cheap people with a lack of technical knowledge , send them to Walmart ( their store of choice ) , where 90 \ % of the CFs are low grade and available only in 2700K color temp , and they 'll buy the cheapest per-dollar bulbs.Then ask these people how they like their cheap-ass lighting and you 'll find they do n't like it .
Ask a person used to a pwerformance computer how they like their $ 399 Dell special , or how someone used to a caddilack likes a Dodge neon and you 'll get much the same response .
My father was the exact same way , and continaully complained about the CF bulbs his power company gave him free ( they gave each coop meber a dozen ) .
He liked the light in my house , and wanted to know what I used .
He was shocked to find i used all CFs , aven in the dimming lights and amber dining room lighting .
I spent about $ 2 more per bulb than what he finds commonly available , but over the life of the bulb , it ; s still far cheaper than what he thought he needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, this is a generalization.
Allow me to use a few to show you why:The majority of people with reduced vision are elderly, or approaching it.
Elderly generally are cheap, and also generally not up on technology or technical terms.
Things like Lumens, Color Temp, etc are mysterious to the majority of them.Take cheap people with a lack of technical knowledge, send them to Walmart (their store of choice), where 90\% of the CFs are low grade and available only in 2700K color temp, and they'll buy the cheapest per-dollar bulbs.Then ask these people how they like their cheap-ass lighting and you'll find they don't like it.
Ask a person used to a pwerformance computer how they like their $399 Dell special, or how someone used to a caddilack likes a Dodge neon and you'll get much the same response.
My father was the exact same way, and continaully complained about the CF bulbs his power company gave him free (they gave each coop meber a dozen).
He liked the light in my house, and wanted to know what I used.
He was shocked to find i used all CFs, aven in the dimming lights and amber dining room lighting.
I spent about $2 more per bulb than what he finds commonly available, but over the life of the bulb, it;s still far cheaper than what he thought he needed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606067</parent>
</comment>
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606721
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606525
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607193
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605353
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28608631
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609531
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610889
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605413
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610605
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607863
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609395
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28610299
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607281
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28629081
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28605935
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28614441
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606153
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606045
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28606151
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609783
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28609629
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_0716247.28607067
</commentlist>
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