<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_06_2146207</id>
	<title>Researcher Trolls MMO, Surprised When Players Hate Him</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1246874760000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>D1gital\_Prob3 writes with this excerpt from a story about David Myers, a Loyola professor who spent some time studying superhero MMO <em>City of Heroes/Villains</em>:
<i>"... he aimed the pointer at his opponent, the virtual comic book villain 'Syphris.' Myers, 55, flicked the buttons on his mouse and magically transported his opponent to the front of a cartoon robot execution squad. In an instant, the squad pulverized the player. Syphris fired an instant message at Myers moments later. 'If you kill me one more time I will come and kill you for real and I am not kidding.' ... As part of his experiment, Myers decided to play the game by the designers' rules &mdash; <a href="http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/loyola\_university\_professor\_be.html">disregarding any customs set by the players</a>. His character soon became very unpopular. At first, players tried to beat him in the game to make him quit. Myers was too skilled to be run off, however. They then made him an outcast, a World Wide Web pariah that the creator of Syphris &mdash; along with hundreds of other faceless gamers &mdash; detested."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>D1gital \ _Prob3 writes with this excerpt from a story about David Myers , a Loyola professor who spent some time studying superhero MMO City of Heroes/Villains : " ... he aimed the pointer at his opponent , the virtual comic book villain 'Syphris .
' Myers , 55 , flicked the buttons on his mouse and magically transported his opponent to the front of a cartoon robot execution squad .
In an instant , the squad pulverized the player .
Syphris fired an instant message at Myers moments later .
'If you kill me one more time I will come and kill you for real and I am not kidding .
' ... As part of his experiment , Myers decided to play the game by the designers ' rules    disregarding any customs set by the players .
His character soon became very unpopular .
At first , players tried to beat him in the game to make him quit .
Myers was too skilled to be run off , however .
They then made him an outcast , a World Wide Web pariah that the creator of Syphris    along with hundreds of other faceless gamers    detested .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>D1gital\_Prob3 writes with this excerpt from a story about David Myers, a Loyola professor who spent some time studying superhero MMO City of Heroes/Villains:
"... he aimed the pointer at his opponent, the virtual comic book villain 'Syphris.
' Myers, 55, flicked the buttons on his mouse and magically transported his opponent to the front of a cartoon robot execution squad.
In an instant, the squad pulverized the player.
Syphris fired an instant message at Myers moments later.
'If you kill me one more time I will come and kill you for real and I am not kidding.
' ... As part of his experiment, Myers decided to play the game by the designers' rules — disregarding any customs set by the players.
His character soon became very unpopular.
At first, players tried to beat him in the game to make him quit.
Myers was too skilled to be run off, however.
They then made him an outcast, a World Wide Web pariah that the creator of Syphris — along with hundreds of other faceless gamers — detested.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603923</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>Plekto</author>
	<datestamp>1246900860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><b>just because a game developer didnt prevent something doesnt mean that its within the rules. the game developer doesnt play that game. even if s/he/they do, they constitute a near zero percentage of the game's players.</b></p><p>But... seriously.   Players sending robots to do fighting and turning it into X-Men and Pokemon have a mind-wrenching love child?</p><p>I'd waste every last one of those slackers that I could too.</p><p>Oh - and the result of players actually playing the game hard-core over time to get even/survive?  Beautiful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>just because a game developer didnt prevent something doesnt mean that its within the rules .
the game developer doesnt play that game .
even if s/he/they do , they constitute a near zero percentage of the game 's players.But... seriously. Players sending robots to do fighting and turning it into X-Men and Pokemon have a mind-wrenching love child ? I 'd waste every last one of those slackers that I could too.Oh - and the result of players actually playing the game hard-core over time to get even/survive ?
Beautiful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>just because a game developer didnt prevent something doesnt mean that its within the rules.
the game developer doesnt play that game.
even if s/he/they do, they constitute a near zero percentage of the game's players.But... seriously.   Players sending robots to do fighting and turning it into X-Men and Pokemon have a mind-wrenching love child?I'd waste every last one of those slackers that I could too.Oh - and the result of players actually playing the game hard-core over time to get even/survive?
Beautiful.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28606945</id>
	<title>Re:What an ass...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246976880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sigh.  I wish people would quit saying it's the point of the game to PvP versus the opposite faction.  You obviously haven't played City of Heroes or City of Villains, have you?</p><p>Let me enlighten you.  Yes, as a hero you go around defeating villains, and as a villain you go around defeating heroes.  However, these are *all* NPC heroes and villains.  While you can level inside PvP zones, actual PvP does not advance your character.  Why is this, you ask?</p><p>It's because PvP in CoH and CoV is terribly broken.  Horribly unbalanced.  Not the kind of "unbalanced" people complain about in WoW where people get whipped up into a frenzy over a "nerf" that reduces their characters damage by 5\%.  I mean irretrievably, unarguably broken in a fundamental way.  The problem is the power sets in CoX are too extreme to interact with eachother in a sane and balanced way when they're built to PvP.  So the developers have basically abandoned PvP as a serious pastime for the players.</p><p>This isn't to say you can't show up, brawl a little, and have fun.  That's largely what people do, in fact.  It's really what the PvP zones are used for... people want something a little different, so they pop over to a PvP zone and fiddle around a bit.  It's not serious PvP, as serious PvP hasn't been part of CoX in ages.  What we ended up with was often people conducting polite skirmishes and duels.</p><p>So, enter a professor whose expressed purpose is to do everything he can to piss off people in the area, including talking trash (which you say he wasn't... but a little research shows he was... a lot), exploiting game mechanics for insta-kills, and being a general ass.  Of course he'll get a bad reception.  It's obviously what he was LOOKING FOR.</p><p>Just to reiterate, despite what the article says CoX is NOT about killing PCs of the opposite faction.  It's almost exclusively "player versus environment" and the PvP areas are really just a side-show.  One where this sort of behavior is quite inappropriate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sigh .
I wish people would quit saying it 's the point of the game to PvP versus the opposite faction .
You obviously have n't played City of Heroes or City of Villains , have you ? Let me enlighten you .
Yes , as a hero you go around defeating villains , and as a villain you go around defeating heroes .
However , these are * all * NPC heroes and villains .
While you can level inside PvP zones , actual PvP does not advance your character .
Why is this , you ask ? It 's because PvP in CoH and CoV is terribly broken .
Horribly unbalanced .
Not the kind of " unbalanced " people complain about in WoW where people get whipped up into a frenzy over a " nerf " that reduces their characters damage by 5 \ % .
I mean irretrievably , unarguably broken in a fundamental way .
The problem is the power sets in CoX are too extreme to interact with eachother in a sane and balanced way when they 're built to PvP .
So the developers have basically abandoned PvP as a serious pastime for the players.This is n't to say you ca n't show up , brawl a little , and have fun .
That 's largely what people do , in fact .
It 's really what the PvP zones are used for... people want something a little different , so they pop over to a PvP zone and fiddle around a bit .
It 's not serious PvP , as serious PvP has n't been part of CoX in ages .
What we ended up with was often people conducting polite skirmishes and duels.So , enter a professor whose expressed purpose is to do everything he can to piss off people in the area , including talking trash ( which you say he was n't... but a little research shows he was... a lot ) , exploiting game mechanics for insta-kills , and being a general ass .
Of course he 'll get a bad reception .
It 's obviously what he was LOOKING FOR.Just to reiterate , despite what the article says CoX is NOT about killing PCs of the opposite faction .
It 's almost exclusively " player versus environment " and the PvP areas are really just a side-show .
One where this sort of behavior is quite inappropriate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sigh.
I wish people would quit saying it's the point of the game to PvP versus the opposite faction.
You obviously haven't played City of Heroes or City of Villains, have you?Let me enlighten you.
Yes, as a hero you go around defeating villains, and as a villain you go around defeating heroes.
However, these are *all* NPC heroes and villains.
While you can level inside PvP zones, actual PvP does not advance your character.
Why is this, you ask?It's because PvP in CoH and CoV is terribly broken.
Horribly unbalanced.
Not the kind of "unbalanced" people complain about in WoW where people get whipped up into a frenzy over a "nerf" that reduces their characters damage by 5\%.
I mean irretrievably, unarguably broken in a fundamental way.
The problem is the power sets in CoX are too extreme to interact with eachother in a sane and balanced way when they're built to PvP.
So the developers have basically abandoned PvP as a serious pastime for the players.This isn't to say you can't show up, brawl a little, and have fun.
That's largely what people do, in fact.
It's really what the PvP zones are used for... people want something a little different, so they pop over to a PvP zone and fiddle around a bit.
It's not serious PvP, as serious PvP hasn't been part of CoX in ages.
What we ended up with was often people conducting polite skirmishes and duels.So, enter a professor whose expressed purpose is to do everything he can to piss off people in the area, including talking trash (which you say he wasn't... but a little research shows he was... a lot), exploiting game mechanics for insta-kills, and being a general ass.
Of course he'll get a bad reception.
It's obviously what he was LOOKING FOR.Just to reiterate, despite what the article says CoX is NOT about killing PCs of the opposite faction.
It's almost exclusively "player versus environment" and the PvP areas are really just a side-show.
One where this sort of behavior is quite inappropriate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600823</id>
	<title>Re:Full Court Press</title>
	<author>Bill, Shooter of Bul</author>
	<datestamp>1246880280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've never heard of the tactic being called "cheap" before. At least not at the college and Pro level. Its a high risk/ high reward model. If it works you can force a turn over, if it doesn't the other team has a good opportunity at a fast break with many defenders out of position. I think something like the Statue of liberty play, fake field goals/punts, flea flicker plays from football would be more of a despised tactic.  I can't think of anything similar in basket ball, except maybe lobbing threes when your team is up by 20 + points.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've never heard of the tactic being called " cheap " before .
At least not at the college and Pro level .
Its a high risk/ high reward model .
If it works you can force a turn over , if it does n't the other team has a good opportunity at a fast break with many defenders out of position .
I think something like the Statue of liberty play , fake field goals/punts , flea flicker plays from football would be more of a despised tactic .
I ca n't think of anything similar in basket ball , except maybe lobbing threes when your team is up by 20 + points .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've never heard of the tactic being called "cheap" before.
At least not at the college and Pro level.
Its a high risk/ high reward model.
If it works you can force a turn over, if it doesn't the other team has a good opportunity at a fast break with many defenders out of position.
I think something like the Statue of liberty play, fake field goals/punts, flea flicker plays from football would be more of a despised tactic.
I can't think of anything similar in basket ball, except maybe lobbing threes when your team is up by 20 + points.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600619</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602597</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>infinitelink</author>
	<datestamp>1246890600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In my state, at least, driving too slow in the pass (left) lane will get you a ticket: it's not always legal to drive too slow; the same for freeways in general; it's illegal here to hold-up traffic, unless they're just driving too fast and you're driving in the right lane/s at the limit, the left lane still being the exception. In fact, I just Googled state traffic laws: it seems these and similar laws are pretty consistent and present in many states.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my state , at least , driving too slow in the pass ( left ) lane will get you a ticket : it 's not always legal to drive too slow ; the same for freeways in general ; it 's illegal here to hold-up traffic , unless they 're just driving too fast and you 're driving in the right lane/s at the limit , the left lane still being the exception .
In fact , I just Googled state traffic laws : it seems these and similar laws are pretty consistent and present in many states .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my state, at least, driving too slow in the pass (left) lane will get you a ticket: it's not always legal to drive too slow; the same for freeways in general; it's illegal here to hold-up traffic, unless they're just driving too fast and you're driving in the right lane/s at the limit, the left lane still being the exception.
In fact, I just Googled state traffic laws: it seems these and similar laws are pretty consistent and present in many states.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604223</id>
	<title>Re:I think this experiment illustrates quite clear</title>
	<author>pentalive</author>
	<datestamp>1246904640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That and that "tyranny of the majority" thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That and that " tyranny of the majority " thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That and that "tyranny of the majority" thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604425</id>
	<title>You wouldn't know villiany</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246907580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if it came up and bit you on the ass.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if it came up and bit you on the ass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if it came up and bit you on the ass.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605199</id>
	<title>From the research findings...</title>
	<author>overbaud</author>
	<datestamp>1246960200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"Using obscene language in the game&#226;(TM)s broadcast channels, for instance, was clearly against the game&#226;(TM)s EULA and was both a petition-able and actionable offense, regardless of any individual player&#226;(TM)s desires or preferences.  Droning, on the other hand, was equally clearly an acceptable tactic as determined both by the game design and as confirmed by lack of moderator intervention on any petitioner&#226;(TM)s behalf."</i> <b> Would suggest that the product vendor was fine with the tactics employed.</b>
<br> <br> <i>"In fact, fairly often, players with multiple accounts (controlling both heroes and villains) would invite Twixt into hero teams that were then used to aid surreptitious villain activities against him.  This kind of collusion and increasingly hostile environment forced Twixt to operate largely independently and, over time, habitually refuse team invitations."</i> <b> would suggest that numerous players were behaving like wankers and not playing in the so called 'spirit' of the game (which would vary between player to player).</b> <br> <br> <i>"There were some other players &#226;" not many &#226;" who, after observing Twixt&#226;(TM)s success in the zone, copied his tactics and attitude.  But, in all cases, this copycat play had the support of some larger social group that also opposed, for various reasons, conventional and socially sanctioned behavior."</i> <b> would suggest that just like any culture people have different ideas on what is and is not allowed. The professor was not alone in his actions and some players support his method of play. <br> <br>So in short the professor played within the rules defined by the owner of the product, inline with how the owner intended the product to be played (Player VERSUS Player) and had various other players support his actions.... while other people cried great big tears of furstration at their pathetic real lives... oops... i mean having their arses handed to them in a make believe far away land.</b></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Using obscene language in the game   ( TM ) s broadcast channels , for instance , was clearly against the game   ( TM ) s EULA and was both a petition-able and actionable offense , regardless of any individual player   ( TM ) s desires or preferences .
Droning , on the other hand , was equally clearly an acceptable tactic as determined both by the game design and as confirmed by lack of moderator intervention on any petitioner   ( TM ) s behalf .
" Would suggest that the product vendor was fine with the tactics employed .
" In fact , fairly often , players with multiple accounts ( controlling both heroes and villains ) would invite Twixt into hero teams that were then used to aid surreptitious villain activities against him .
This kind of collusion and increasingly hostile environment forced Twixt to operate largely independently and , over time , habitually refuse team invitations .
" would suggest that numerous players were behaving like wankers and not playing in the so called 'spirit ' of the game ( which would vary between player to player ) .
" There were some other players   " not many   " who , after observing Twixt   ( TM ) s success in the zone , copied his tactics and attitude .
But , in all cases , this copycat play had the support of some larger social group that also opposed , for various reasons , conventional and socially sanctioned behavior .
" would suggest that just like any culture people have different ideas on what is and is not allowed .
The professor was not alone in his actions and some players support his method of play .
So in short the professor played within the rules defined by the owner of the product , inline with how the owner intended the product to be played ( Player VERSUS Player ) and had various other players support his actions.... while other people cried great big tears of furstration at their pathetic real lives... oops... i mean having their arses handed to them in a make believe far away land .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Using obscene language in the gameâ(TM)s broadcast channels, for instance, was clearly against the gameâ(TM)s EULA and was both a petition-able and actionable offense, regardless of any individual playerâ(TM)s desires or preferences.
Droning, on the other hand, was equally clearly an acceptable tactic as determined both by the game design and as confirmed by lack of moderator intervention on any petitionerâ(TM)s behalf.
"  Would suggest that the product vendor was fine with the tactics employed.
"In fact, fairly often, players with multiple accounts (controlling both heroes and villains) would invite Twixt into hero teams that were then used to aid surreptitious villain activities against him.
This kind of collusion and increasingly hostile environment forced Twixt to operate largely independently and, over time, habitually refuse team invitations.
"  would suggest that numerous players were behaving like wankers and not playing in the so called 'spirit' of the game (which would vary between player to player).
"There were some other players â" not many â" who, after observing Twixtâ(TM)s success in the zone, copied his tactics and attitude.
But, in all cases, this copycat play had the support of some larger social group that also opposed, for various reasons, conventional and socially sanctioned behavior.
"  would suggest that just like any culture people have different ideas on what is and is not allowed.
The professor was not alone in his actions and some players support his method of play.
So in short the professor played within the rules defined by the owner of the product, inline with how the owner intended the product to be played (Player VERSUS Player) and had various other players support his actions.... while other people cried great big tears of furstration at their pathetic real lives... oops... i mean having their arses handed to them in a make believe far away land.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600857</id>
	<title>Paper and thoughts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246880340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This appears to be Professor Myer's paper detailing his "Twixt" character and its actions: <a href="http://www.masscomm.loyno.edu/~dmyers/F99\%20classes/Myers\_PlayPunishment\_031508.doc" title="loyno.edu" rel="nofollow">http://www.masscomm.loyno.edu/~dmyers/F99\%20classes/Myers\_PlayPunishment\_031508.doc</a> [loyno.edu].  As annoying as this kind of research is, it provides some significant insights into how people behave.  Just look at the go-along-to-get-along attitude that is prevalent in most organizations.  Individuals who try to "play by the rules" are ostracized, even to the detriment of the organization's mission.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This appears to be Professor Myer 's paper detailing his " Twixt " character and its actions : http : //www.masscomm.loyno.edu/ ~ dmyers/F99 \ % 20classes/Myers \ _PlayPunishment \ _031508.doc [ loyno.edu ] .
As annoying as this kind of research is , it provides some significant insights into how people behave .
Just look at the go-along-to-get-along attitude that is prevalent in most organizations .
Individuals who try to " play by the rules " are ostracized , even to the detriment of the organization 's mission .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This appears to be Professor Myer's paper detailing his "Twixt" character and its actions: http://www.masscomm.loyno.edu/~dmyers/F99\%20classes/Myers\_PlayPunishment\_031508.doc [loyno.edu].
As annoying as this kind of research is, it provides some significant insights into how people behave.
Just look at the go-along-to-get-along attitude that is prevalent in most organizations.
Individuals who try to "play by the rules" are ostracized, even to the detriment of the organization's mission.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601721</id>
	<title>Re:Griefer is reviled</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1246885020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've never played WoW (I'll hand over my geek card at the exit), but I'd say its due to the 'scrambling' Blizzard does for the chats between different faction. So, effectively, the only thing an alliance and a horde player can do if they meet is beat each other up.</p><p>You want a good social experiment? make some software that reverses it, a "Babelfish" of sorts for WoW, then hang back and watch the results.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've never played WoW ( I 'll hand over my geek card at the exit ) , but I 'd say its due to the 'scrambling ' Blizzard does for the chats between different faction .
So , effectively , the only thing an alliance and a horde player can do if they meet is beat each other up.You want a good social experiment ?
make some software that reverses it , a " Babelfish " of sorts for WoW , then hang back and watch the results .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've never played WoW (I'll hand over my geek card at the exit), but I'd say its due to the 'scrambling' Blizzard does for the chats between different faction.
So, effectively, the only thing an alliance and a horde player can do if they meet is beat each other up.You want a good social experiment?
make some software that reverses it, a "Babelfish" of sorts for WoW, then hang back and watch the results.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601257</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28611151</id>
	<title>Re:meaningless statement</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246993320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, the rule of the game does not force him to kill players of the opposing party, but that's precisely the point of the game, or part of it.</p><p>A better analogy would compare the rules of the game to the rules of a political party. OK, nowhere does most of them say that a party should advance its view, but that's the point of most political parties.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , the rule of the game does not force him to kill players of the opposing party , but that 's precisely the point of the game , or part of it.A better analogy would compare the rules of the game to the rules of a political party .
OK , nowhere does most of them say that a party should advance its view , but that 's the point of most political parties .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, the rule of the game does not force him to kill players of the opposing party, but that's precisely the point of the game, or part of it.A better analogy would compare the rules of the game to the rules of a political party.
OK, nowhere does most of them say that a party should advance its view, but that's the point of most political parties.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601923</id>
	<title>Re:What an ass...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246886100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What's this guy's next "research" project? Going down to the bus station and punching old ladies in the nose?</p><p>This guy wasn't doing research, he just wanted a tax write off and a grant to do nothing but sit around and be a dick on the internet.</p></div><p>Not really.  Punching old ladies in the nose, at least in most countries, is against the rules of the game, and will most likely get you landed in jail for assault.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's this guy 's next " research " project ?
Going down to the bus station and punching old ladies in the nose ? This guy was n't doing research , he just wanted a tax write off and a grant to do nothing but sit around and be a dick on the internet.Not really .
Punching old ladies in the nose , at least in most countries , is against the rules of the game , and will most likely get you landed in jail for assault .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's this guy's next "research" project?
Going down to the bus station and punching old ladies in the nose?This guy wasn't doing research, he just wanted a tax write off and a grant to do nothing but sit around and be a dick on the internet.Not really.
Punching old ladies in the nose, at least in most countries, is against the rules of the game, and will most likely get you landed in jail for assault.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600807</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601795</id>
	<title>A-holish behavior in general</title>
	<author>GodfatherofSoul</author>
	<datestamp>1246885440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I guess the point is that just as in society, there are rules and there is etiquette.  I'm a big Battlefield 2142 player and it drives me nuts when people do dickwad things that are perfectly legal within the confines of gameplay like RDX whoring, ditching choppers with passengers, or camping.  The interesting thing to me has how these standards aren't uniform across all servers.  Some call bitching about play that violates the spirit of the game as "whining."  Others publish their own lists of custom rules on penalty of being kicked or banned.  In the real world, my ex-girlfriend thought Bill Gates was a god because of his ruthless political acumen.  Wall Street traders gloat about how they profit on loopholes in laws to their own profit (naked shorts anyone?).  So, there will always be a gray area of frowned-upon behavior that will never be banned because a critical mass of "NO" votes will never be reached that would make breaches of etiquette unlawful.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess the point is that just as in society , there are rules and there is etiquette .
I 'm a big Battlefield 2142 player and it drives me nuts when people do dickwad things that are perfectly legal within the confines of gameplay like RDX whoring , ditching choppers with passengers , or camping .
The interesting thing to me has how these standards are n't uniform across all servers .
Some call bitching about play that violates the spirit of the game as " whining .
" Others publish their own lists of custom rules on penalty of being kicked or banned .
In the real world , my ex-girlfriend thought Bill Gates was a god because of his ruthless political acumen .
Wall Street traders gloat about how they profit on loopholes in laws to their own profit ( naked shorts anyone ? ) .
So , there will always be a gray area of frowned-upon behavior that will never be banned because a critical mass of " NO " votes will never be reached that would make breaches of etiquette unlawful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess the point is that just as in society, there are rules and there is etiquette.
I'm a big Battlefield 2142 player and it drives me nuts when people do dickwad things that are perfectly legal within the confines of gameplay like RDX whoring, ditching choppers with passengers, or camping.
The interesting thing to me has how these standards aren't uniform across all servers.
Some call bitching about play that violates the spirit of the game as "whining.
"  Others publish their own lists of custom rules on penalty of being kicked or banned.
In the real world, my ex-girlfriend thought Bill Gates was a god because of his ruthless political acumen.
Wall Street traders gloat about how they profit on loopholes in laws to their own profit (naked shorts anyone?).
So, there will always be a gray area of frowned-upon behavior that will never be banned because a critical mass of "NO" votes will never be reached that would make breaches of etiquette unlawful.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601087</id>
	<title>A minor note:</title>
	<author>E-Sabbath</author>
	<datestamp>1246881600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This behavior as described by the researcher does not get XP for the player. It does not get drops for the player, either. It simply wastes the opponent's time.<br>Note also that there are two different behaviors described. One, a pattern of teleporting foes into the 'safe zone guards' was later defined as griefing by the developers, and punishable by pretty much the same punishment as threatening people. The other is a matter of waiting till someone is badly hurt, fighting someone else, and picking them off by teleporting them directly into a boss. This is completely legal, it simply imposes an XP penalty on the person killed. It is also, of course, viewed as 'cheap.'</p><p>I suspect strongly that our friend did the 'teleport into guard' trick until the day it was declared griefing, then switched to a new tactic, just to cause the maximum social annoyance.</p><p>I have seen this behavior in real life, as well. It is the person who drives in the left lane at ten under the limit, on a road where the convention is twenty over. Much like the behavior described in the game, it is technically legal, unless, of course, the cops decide the driver is intentionally blocking the road.</p><p>In this case, I suspect he is both intentionally blocking the road \_and\_ driving with a hat on, barely able to see over the windshield, if he truly does not understand why his behavior was deemed frustrating.</p><p>To put it another way, most of us grew out of this behavior when we were six. It's passive-aggressive, and spiritually the same as "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you."</p><p>His survival \_after\_ this behavior might be an indication of skill... but I doubt he survived for long, simply taking advantage of the lack of death penalty, and various stealth powers to return to play after being killed.</p><p>As far as playing by the 'rules', I should note that it has become harder and harder to perform his tactics, due to behavior like this. Why? Because, while the game world may allow it, it was only allowed because the developers didn't actually believe someone would behave like this, to no personal gain and great social cost. As such, they have added equipment, power sets, potions, and direct power changes to make it harder to perform.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This behavior as described by the researcher does not get XP for the player .
It does not get drops for the player , either .
It simply wastes the opponent 's time.Note also that there are two different behaviors described .
One , a pattern of teleporting foes into the 'safe zone guards ' was later defined as griefing by the developers , and punishable by pretty much the same punishment as threatening people .
The other is a matter of waiting till someone is badly hurt , fighting someone else , and picking them off by teleporting them directly into a boss .
This is completely legal , it simply imposes an XP penalty on the person killed .
It is also , of course , viewed as 'cheap .
'I suspect strongly that our friend did the 'teleport into guard ' trick until the day it was declared griefing , then switched to a new tactic , just to cause the maximum social annoyance.I have seen this behavior in real life , as well .
It is the person who drives in the left lane at ten under the limit , on a road where the convention is twenty over .
Much like the behavior described in the game , it is technically legal , unless , of course , the cops decide the driver is intentionally blocking the road.In this case , I suspect he is both intentionally blocking the road \ _and \ _ driving with a hat on , barely able to see over the windshield , if he truly does not understand why his behavior was deemed frustrating.To put it another way , most of us grew out of this behavior when we were six .
It 's passive-aggressive , and spiritually the same as " I 'm not touching you .
I 'm not touching you .
I 'm not touching you .
" His survival \ _after \ _ this behavior might be an indication of skill... but I doubt he survived for long , simply taking advantage of the lack of death penalty , and various stealth powers to return to play after being killed.As far as playing by the 'rules ' , I should note that it has become harder and harder to perform his tactics , due to behavior like this .
Why ? Because , while the game world may allow it , it was only allowed because the developers did n't actually believe someone would behave like this , to no personal gain and great social cost .
As such , they have added equipment , power sets , potions , and direct power changes to make it harder to perform .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This behavior as described by the researcher does not get XP for the player.
It does not get drops for the player, either.
It simply wastes the opponent's time.Note also that there are two different behaviors described.
One, a pattern of teleporting foes into the 'safe zone guards' was later defined as griefing by the developers, and punishable by pretty much the same punishment as threatening people.
The other is a matter of waiting till someone is badly hurt, fighting someone else, and picking them off by teleporting them directly into a boss.
This is completely legal, it simply imposes an XP penalty on the person killed.
It is also, of course, viewed as 'cheap.
'I suspect strongly that our friend did the 'teleport into guard' trick until the day it was declared griefing, then switched to a new tactic, just to cause the maximum social annoyance.I have seen this behavior in real life, as well.
It is the person who drives in the left lane at ten under the limit, on a road where the convention is twenty over.
Much like the behavior described in the game, it is technically legal, unless, of course, the cops decide the driver is intentionally blocking the road.In this case, I suspect he is both intentionally blocking the road \_and\_ driving with a hat on, barely able to see over the windshield, if he truly does not understand why his behavior was deemed frustrating.To put it another way, most of us grew out of this behavior when we were six.
It's passive-aggressive, and spiritually the same as "I'm not touching you.
I'm not touching you.
I'm not touching you.
"His survival \_after\_ this behavior might be an indication of skill... but I doubt he survived for long, simply taking advantage of the lack of death penalty, and various stealth powers to return to play after being killed.As far as playing by the 'rules', I should note that it has become harder and harder to perform his tactics, due to behavior like this.
Why? Because, while the game world may allow it, it was only allowed because the developers didn't actually believe someone would behave like this, to no personal gain and great social cost.
As such, they have added equipment, power sets, potions, and direct power changes to make it harder to perform.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602967</id>
	<title>What was his control?</title>
	<author>AnotherBlackHat</author>
	<datestamp>1246893720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He claims to have done an experiment, yet from what I can see, he's tried a grand total of ONE behaviour.<br>Maybe all players treat everyone like they're an asshole, maybe it wasn't the killing itself, but the obnoxious bragging about it that got people riled.<br>Maybe it was the color of his pants, or the time of year, or maybe he did something outside of the game itself to bring it on.<br>And no statement from the developers of the game that what he was doing was how they "intended" the game to be played.</p><p>How can he possibly draw valid conclusions from this?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He claims to have done an experiment , yet from what I can see , he 's tried a grand total of ONE behaviour.Maybe all players treat everyone like they 're an asshole , maybe it was n't the killing itself , but the obnoxious bragging about it that got people riled.Maybe it was the color of his pants , or the time of year , or maybe he did something outside of the game itself to bring it on.And no statement from the developers of the game that what he was doing was how they " intended " the game to be played.How can he possibly draw valid conclusions from this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He claims to have done an experiment, yet from what I can see, he's tried a grand total of ONE behaviour.Maybe all players treat everyone like they're an asshole, maybe it wasn't the killing itself, but the obnoxious bragging about it that got people riled.Maybe it was the color of his pants, or the time of year, or maybe he did something outside of the game itself to bring it on.And no statement from the developers of the game that what he was doing was how they "intended" the game to be played.How can he possibly draw valid conclusions from this?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28611829</id>
	<title>EVE</title>
	<author>rogueleader25</author>
	<datestamp>1246995660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmm, This sounds a lot like every day in EVE, except for the other several thousand people doing the same thing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm , This sounds a lot like every day in EVE , except for the other several thousand people doing the same thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm, This sounds a lot like every day in EVE, except for the other several thousand people doing the same thing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605623</id>
	<title>Summary trolls</title>
	<author>Ilgaz</author>
	<datestamp>1246965300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bad summary, misses important facts and even manipulates some resulted in your +5 insightful AC message.</p><p>Ever considered Slashdot being the number 1 troll of all times?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bad summary , misses important facts and even manipulates some resulted in your + 5 insightful AC message.Ever considered Slashdot being the number 1 troll of all times ?
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bad summary, misses important facts and even manipulates some resulted in your +5 insightful AC message.Ever considered Slashdot being the number 1 troll of all times?
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602447</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246889280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they don't like PvP, why did they create a character on a PvP server? They consented when they created their character, tough shit for them!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they do n't like PvP , why did they create a character on a PvP server ?
They consented when they created their character , tough shit for them !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they don't like PvP, why did they create a character on a PvP server?
They consented when they created their character, tough shit for them!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602249</id>
	<title>Needs a patch.</title>
	<author>guidryp</author>
	<datestamp>1246887960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the main issue is the death by teleporting enemies into the insta kill zone, then it seems a simple patch that would make a no teleport in zone within range of that would solve that problem.</p><p>No doubt he would find some other way to be an ass.  I hope tax dollars didn't go into funding this nonsense research.</p><p>I have never played any MMOs, but this looks exactly like that southpark episode about warcraft with the lame griefer ruing the game for everyone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the main issue is the death by teleporting enemies into the insta kill zone , then it seems a simple patch that would make a no teleport in zone within range of that would solve that problem.No doubt he would find some other way to be an ass .
I hope tax dollars did n't go into funding this nonsense research.I have never played any MMOs , but this looks exactly like that southpark episode about warcraft with the lame griefer ruing the game for everyone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the main issue is the death by teleporting enemies into the insta kill zone, then it seems a simple patch that would make a no teleport in zone within range of that would solve that problem.No doubt he would find some other way to be an ass.
I hope tax dollars didn't go into funding this nonsense research.I have never played any MMOs, but this looks exactly like that southpark episode about warcraft with the lame griefer ruing the game for everyone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604215</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246904580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Heroes and villains HAD somewhere to do exactly what they were doing in the PvP zones. It's called Pocket D. Dance club considered "neutral" in the game, accessible to both heroes and villains, where chatting was encouraged. The people standing in PvP zones were just typical internet dickbags, intent on shitting on what an area was created for because they think they own it. Fuck them.</p><p>I find his "griefing" <i>hilarious</i> frankly, particularly when I realize it was a guy poking them to see how they'd react for a science experiment basically. In fact, the only thing I'm disappointed by is that he seems like he was honestly scared, or believed in their threats. I could tell him they're just typical Internet Tough Guys: they talk shit and talk shit until you meet them in person. Then when you meet, they keep their stare cast to the ground, talk quietly out the side of their mouths, and don't carry out on any of their threats of physical violence because they CAN'T. Even on their best day, 30 seconds of fighting would leave them wheezing.</p><p>I think his study was flawed, but I think the players got exactly what they signed up for: a game where the other side is supposed to kick your ass in a PvP zone. They're just pissed they weren't the ones doing the griefing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Heroes and villains HAD somewhere to do exactly what they were doing in the PvP zones .
It 's called Pocket D. Dance club considered " neutral " in the game , accessible to both heroes and villains , where chatting was encouraged .
The people standing in PvP zones were just typical internet dickbags , intent on shitting on what an area was created for because they think they own it .
Fuck them.I find his " griefing " hilarious frankly , particularly when I realize it was a guy poking them to see how they 'd react for a science experiment basically .
In fact , the only thing I 'm disappointed by is that he seems like he was honestly scared , or believed in their threats .
I could tell him they 're just typical Internet Tough Guys : they talk shit and talk shit until you meet them in person .
Then when you meet , they keep their stare cast to the ground , talk quietly out the side of their mouths , and do n't carry out on any of their threats of physical violence because they CA N'T .
Even on their best day , 30 seconds of fighting would leave them wheezing.I think his study was flawed , but I think the players got exactly what they signed up for : a game where the other side is supposed to kick your ass in a PvP zone .
They 're just pissed they were n't the ones doing the griefing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heroes and villains HAD somewhere to do exactly what they were doing in the PvP zones.
It's called Pocket D. Dance club considered "neutral" in the game, accessible to both heroes and villains, where chatting was encouraged.
The people standing in PvP zones were just typical internet dickbags, intent on shitting on what an area was created for because they think they own it.
Fuck them.I find his "griefing" hilarious frankly, particularly when I realize it was a guy poking them to see how they'd react for a science experiment basically.
In fact, the only thing I'm disappointed by is that he seems like he was honestly scared, or believed in their threats.
I could tell him they're just typical Internet Tough Guys: they talk shit and talk shit until you meet them in person.
Then when you meet, they keep their stare cast to the ground, talk quietly out the side of their mouths, and don't carry out on any of their threats of physical violence because they CAN'T.
Even on their best day, 30 seconds of fighting would leave them wheezing.I think his study was flawed, but I think the players got exactly what they signed up for: a game where the other side is supposed to kick your ass in a PvP zone.
They're just pissed they weren't the ones doing the griefing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602645</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Jeff DeMaagd</author>
	<datestamp>1246891080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it's odd that the "players" choose to go somewhere designed to be a game but decide to not actually play the game to the slightest degree at all.  If they just want to go to a virtual hangout, isn't a trip to Second Life more appropriate?  Isn't that cheaper than paying a monthly fee?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's odd that the " players " choose to go somewhere designed to be a game but decide to not actually play the game to the slightest degree at all .
If they just want to go to a virtual hangout , is n't a trip to Second Life more appropriate ?
Is n't that cheaper than paying a monthly fee ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's odd that the "players" choose to go somewhere designed to be a game but decide to not actually play the game to the slightest degree at all.
If they just want to go to a virtual hangout, isn't a trip to Second Life more appropriate?
Isn't that cheaper than paying a monthly fee?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602841</id>
	<title>Project Gotham Racing</title>
	<author>Zero\_Independent</author>
	<datestamp>1246892760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Back when I used to play Project Gotham Racing, I got pissed that it was nearly impossible to find a game where people wanted to drive as fast as possible to cross the finish line first. Everybody wanted to play "Cat and Mouse", a stupid user "mod" where everyone agrees to the house rules. The basic idea was to ram other cars. The worst part was that you couldn't tell what you were getting into from the server title, because there were no server titles, just the host gamertag. Players rarely have any idea as to what makes a game fun, and should be completely banned from making any kind of modification to any game. Also money maps destroy RTS games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Back when I used to play Project Gotham Racing , I got pissed that it was nearly impossible to find a game where people wanted to drive as fast as possible to cross the finish line first .
Everybody wanted to play " Cat and Mouse " , a stupid user " mod " where everyone agrees to the house rules .
The basic idea was to ram other cars .
The worst part was that you could n't tell what you were getting into from the server title , because there were no server titles , just the host gamertag .
Players rarely have any idea as to what makes a game fun , and should be completely banned from making any kind of modification to any game .
Also money maps destroy RTS games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back when I used to play Project Gotham Racing, I got pissed that it was nearly impossible to find a game where people wanted to drive as fast as possible to cross the finish line first.
Everybody wanted to play "Cat and Mouse", a stupid user "mod" where everyone agrees to the house rules.
The basic idea was to ram other cars.
The worst part was that you couldn't tell what you were getting into from the server title, because there were no server titles, just the host gamertag.
Players rarely have any idea as to what makes a game fun, and should be completely banned from making any kind of modification to any game.
Also money maps destroy RTS games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602875</id>
	<title>Cultures always discourage rebels</title>
	<author>jasontiller</author>
	<datestamp>1246893000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I played the original NWN on AOL in the early '90s, and I encountered a very similar situation.  A very cozy social network had arisen of "nice" people who chit-chat roleplayed but did little else.  The game itself was limited - a new character could easily max in a day and push through most of the stock content during that time.  So, most of us kind folx (I was definitely one) spent their HOURLY fee (yeah, they charged by the hour back then) typing at each other and acting as chaperones for newer players.  It was a safe, comfortable, static, and ultimately dull world.  The user community was hardly growing.  There was <b>no</b> PvP - hard to believe an MMO without any PvP - but it was exclusively enforced by social convention.</p><p>That is, until a player named Beelzebub (I can't recall his actual spelling) showed up and turned the universe upside down.  Although PvP was mostly unexplored, the game mechanics allowed for PvP, and Beelz was <b>merciless</b>.  He didn't talk to you.  He was utterly silent and deadly.  He'd ambush you, wipe you out in just a few rounds with a selection of spells (cleric/mage was the nerf in that game) specifically geared towards PvP, and then vanish.  He wasn't "mean" in the sense that he embarrassed you or targeted you in any way - he was faithfully running a lawful <i>evil</i> character.</p><p>The furor that arose from his actions was overwhelming.  I was one of the most heated, calling for his banning, rewriting the game mechanics, blah, blah, blah.  I was overruled by the "NWN*" players (near-employees who provided technical support and performed in-game magic to fix problems) and Beelz continued on his merry way.  Eventually, guilds arose to both oppose and support PvP, more players joined, and a thriving community developed.  From stagnation came creativity and a new lease on life for NWN.</p><p>I literally hated Beelz at the time, but I look back now and I realize that he was like the Mac's hammer thrown into the huge screen in that famous 1984 commercial.  He provided a spark, a new way of thinking about your character and your interaction with the game world.  The old way didn't crumble; in fact, the "pacifist" guilds took on new vigor because they could exist as a foil to the PvP-centered guilds.  NWN had had a strong community before Beelz, but it favored conformity and predictability.  Those are fine and good, but they're not the pillars of an exciting, adventurous, growing world.</p><p>When a single player is despised by a large portion of an MMO, it probably means that player is doing something right.</p><p>
---Jason</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I played the original NWN on AOL in the early '90s , and I encountered a very similar situation .
A very cozy social network had arisen of " nice " people who chit-chat roleplayed but did little else .
The game itself was limited - a new character could easily max in a day and push through most of the stock content during that time .
So , most of us kind folx ( I was definitely one ) spent their HOURLY fee ( yeah , they charged by the hour back then ) typing at each other and acting as chaperones for newer players .
It was a safe , comfortable , static , and ultimately dull world .
The user community was hardly growing .
There was no PvP - hard to believe an MMO without any PvP - but it was exclusively enforced by social convention.That is , until a player named Beelzebub ( I ca n't recall his actual spelling ) showed up and turned the universe upside down .
Although PvP was mostly unexplored , the game mechanics allowed for PvP , and Beelz was merciless .
He did n't talk to you .
He was utterly silent and deadly .
He 'd ambush you , wipe you out in just a few rounds with a selection of spells ( cleric/mage was the nerf in that game ) specifically geared towards PvP , and then vanish .
He was n't " mean " in the sense that he embarrassed you or targeted you in any way - he was faithfully running a lawful evil character.The furor that arose from his actions was overwhelming .
I was one of the most heated , calling for his banning , rewriting the game mechanics , blah , blah , blah .
I was overruled by the " NWN * " players ( near-employees who provided technical support and performed in-game magic to fix problems ) and Beelz continued on his merry way .
Eventually , guilds arose to both oppose and support PvP , more players joined , and a thriving community developed .
From stagnation came creativity and a new lease on life for NWN.I literally hated Beelz at the time , but I look back now and I realize that he was like the Mac 's hammer thrown into the huge screen in that famous 1984 commercial .
He provided a spark , a new way of thinking about your character and your interaction with the game world .
The old way did n't crumble ; in fact , the " pacifist " guilds took on new vigor because they could exist as a foil to the PvP-centered guilds .
NWN had had a strong community before Beelz , but it favored conformity and predictability .
Those are fine and good , but they 're not the pillars of an exciting , adventurous , growing world.When a single player is despised by a large portion of an MMO , it probably means that player is doing something right .
---Jason</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I played the original NWN on AOL in the early '90s, and I encountered a very similar situation.
A very cozy social network had arisen of "nice" people who chit-chat roleplayed but did little else.
The game itself was limited - a new character could easily max in a day and push through most of the stock content during that time.
So, most of us kind folx (I was definitely one) spent their HOURLY fee (yeah, they charged by the hour back then) typing at each other and acting as chaperones for newer players.
It was a safe, comfortable, static, and ultimately dull world.
The user community was hardly growing.
There was no PvP - hard to believe an MMO without any PvP - but it was exclusively enforced by social convention.That is, until a player named Beelzebub (I can't recall his actual spelling) showed up and turned the universe upside down.
Although PvP was mostly unexplored, the game mechanics allowed for PvP, and Beelz was merciless.
He didn't talk to you.
He was utterly silent and deadly.
He'd ambush you, wipe you out in just a few rounds with a selection of spells (cleric/mage was the nerf in that game) specifically geared towards PvP, and then vanish.
He wasn't "mean" in the sense that he embarrassed you or targeted you in any way - he was faithfully running a lawful evil character.The furor that arose from his actions was overwhelming.
I was one of the most heated, calling for his banning, rewriting the game mechanics, blah, blah, blah.
I was overruled by the "NWN*" players (near-employees who provided technical support and performed in-game magic to fix problems) and Beelz continued on his merry way.
Eventually, guilds arose to both oppose and support PvP, more players joined, and a thriving community developed.
From stagnation came creativity and a new lease on life for NWN.I literally hated Beelz at the time, but I look back now and I realize that he was like the Mac's hammer thrown into the huge screen in that famous 1984 commercial.
He provided a spark, a new way of thinking about your character and your interaction with the game world.
The old way didn't crumble; in fact, the "pacifist" guilds took on new vigor because they could exist as a foil to the PvP-centered guilds.
NWN had had a strong community before Beelz, but it favored conformity and predictability.
Those are fine and good, but they're not the pillars of an exciting, adventurous, growing world.When a single player is despised by a large portion of an MMO, it probably means that player is doing something right.
---Jason</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601459</id>
	<title>human subjects research problems</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246883700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm wondering if Myers went through his university's human subjects protection office on this, as he should have. I'd be really surprised to find that his research could get approval.</p><p>If you look at his behavior as that of a player, I don't care. But standards are different for a researcher. It looks like he was deliberately pissing people off by violating social norms, and repeating the process on multiple servers. That's out-of-bounds for a researcher.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm wondering if Myers went through his university 's human subjects protection office on this , as he should have .
I 'd be really surprised to find that his research could get approval.If you look at his behavior as that of a player , I do n't care .
But standards are different for a researcher .
It looks like he was deliberately pissing people off by violating social norms , and repeating the process on multiple servers .
That 's out-of-bounds for a researcher .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm wondering if Myers went through his university's human subjects protection office on this, as he should have.
I'd be really surprised to find that his research could get approval.If you look at his behavior as that of a player, I don't care.
But standards are different for a researcher.
It looks like he was deliberately pissing people off by violating social norms, and repeating the process on multiple servers.
That's out-of-bounds for a researcher.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600831</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1246880280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But who joins City of Heroes to "live in a society"?  I've never played, but I thought about it.  It wasn't so I could live in a society, but so I could have super powers, choose a side, and then run around kicking the asses of people on the opposing side with said super powers.
</p><p>When I was a kid, I didn't play Doom so I could learn about demon culture.  If I want to live in a society, video games are not the appropriate place for that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But who joins City of Heroes to " live in a society " ?
I 've never played , but I thought about it .
It was n't so I could live in a society , but so I could have super powers , choose a side , and then run around kicking the asses of people on the opposing side with said super powers .
When I was a kid , I did n't play Doom so I could learn about demon culture .
If I want to live in a society , video games are not the appropriate place for that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But who joins City of Heroes to "live in a society"?
I've never played, but I thought about it.
It wasn't so I could live in a society, but so I could have super powers, choose a side, and then run around kicking the asses of people on the opposing side with said super powers.
When I was a kid, I didn't play Doom so I could learn about demon culture.
If I want to live in a society, video games are not the appropriate place for that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28611101</id>
	<title>Same old griefer QQ, different day</title>
	<author>Sardaukar0</author>
	<datestamp>1246993140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here again we are faced with the common PvP griefer's refrain of "I'm not breaking any game rules". That's not the point.  In real life, according to the "rules" (i.e. the physical laws of our universe), nothing is stopping me from walking up behind unsuspecting passers-by and bashing their brains out with a tire iron; but I don't, because we as humans have developed a society out of the framework of physical law which details CONSEQUENCES for such an action.<br> <br>

In the same way that God created the world (for the purposes of this metaphor, at least) but humans created society, the CoH/WoW/Eve/etc devs created the world, but players created the society. So if an 80 belf ret pally is griefing my little level 20 nub in Darkshire, it's "within the rules of the game", but it's unequivocally bullying.  It's no longer a matter of skill; my little level 20 nub has exactly 0.00\% chance of beating an 80.  But like in real life, the WoW society has developed consequences; those same rules allow me to bring out my 80 rogue to slaughter and camp his ass til he logs whenever I see him from then on.<br> <br>

Under the faulty logic that anything the laws of the game world permit is socially acceptable, any bug or exploit is fair game.  Counterstrike players remember the bug in cs\_assault that let an unscrupulous player pop up through the ceiling of the warehouse onto the roof.  It's permitted under the laws of the CS universe, but any server admin worth his salt would perma-ban the little s**t.<br> <br>

The point is that the rules that the player society develops are just as important (if not more) than the physical rules of the game world itself.  And if you flagrantly, gleefully, maliciously disregard them, like in real life, there are consequences.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here again we are faced with the common PvP griefer 's refrain of " I 'm not breaking any game rules " .
That 's not the point .
In real life , according to the " rules " ( i.e .
the physical laws of our universe ) , nothing is stopping me from walking up behind unsuspecting passers-by and bashing their brains out with a tire iron ; but I do n't , because we as humans have developed a society out of the framework of physical law which details CONSEQUENCES for such an action .
In the same way that God created the world ( for the purposes of this metaphor , at least ) but humans created society , the CoH/WoW/Eve/etc devs created the world , but players created the society .
So if an 80 belf ret pally is griefing my little level 20 nub in Darkshire , it 's " within the rules of the game " , but it 's unequivocally bullying .
It 's no longer a matter of skill ; my little level 20 nub has exactly 0.00 \ % chance of beating an 80 .
But like in real life , the WoW society has developed consequences ; those same rules allow me to bring out my 80 rogue to slaughter and camp his ass til he logs whenever I see him from then on .
Under the faulty logic that anything the laws of the game world permit is socially acceptable , any bug or exploit is fair game .
Counterstrike players remember the bug in cs \ _assault that let an unscrupulous player pop up through the ceiling of the warehouse onto the roof .
It 's permitted under the laws of the CS universe , but any server admin worth his salt would perma-ban the little s * * t . The point is that the rules that the player society develops are just as important ( if not more ) than the physical rules of the game world itself .
And if you flagrantly , gleefully , maliciously disregard them , like in real life , there are consequences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here again we are faced with the common PvP griefer's refrain of "I'm not breaking any game rules".
That's not the point.
In real life, according to the "rules" (i.e.
the physical laws of our universe), nothing is stopping me from walking up behind unsuspecting passers-by and bashing their brains out with a tire iron; but I don't, because we as humans have developed a society out of the framework of physical law which details CONSEQUENCES for such an action.
In the same way that God created the world (for the purposes of this metaphor, at least) but humans created society, the CoH/WoW/Eve/etc devs created the world, but players created the society.
So if an 80 belf ret pally is griefing my little level 20 nub in Darkshire, it's "within the rules of the game", but it's unequivocally bullying.
It's no longer a matter of skill; my little level 20 nub has exactly 0.00\% chance of beating an 80.
But like in real life, the WoW society has developed consequences; those same rules allow me to bring out my 80 rogue to slaughter and camp his ass til he logs whenever I see him from then on.
Under the faulty logic that anything the laws of the game world permit is socially acceptable, any bug or exploit is fair game.
Counterstrike players remember the bug in cs\_assault that let an unscrupulous player pop up through the ceiling of the warehouse onto the roof.
It's permitted under the laws of the CS universe, but any server admin worth his salt would perma-ban the little s**t. 

The point is that the rules that the player society develops are just as important (if not more) than the physical rules of the game world itself.
And if you flagrantly, gleefully, maliciously disregard them, like in real life, there are consequences.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28610015</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246988880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get a life you moron!</p><p>They guy clearly played by the rules.  The game was setup to be Villains versus Heroes.  Except, it seems, most people did not play that way.</p><p>Just because a bunch of dill-holes got together and made their own "rules," does not mean that everyone need to follow them, especially if they are contradictory to the game.</p><p>Jackass.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get a life you moron ! They guy clearly played by the rules .
The game was setup to be Villains versus Heroes .
Except , it seems , most people did not play that way.Just because a bunch of dill-holes got together and made their own " rules , " does not mean that everyone need to follow them , especially if they are contradictory to the game.Jackass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get a life you moron!They guy clearly played by the rules.
The game was setup to be Villains versus Heroes.
Except, it seems, most people did not play that way.Just because a bunch of dill-holes got together and made their own "rules," does not mean that everyone need to follow them, especially if they are contradictory to the game.Jackass.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602693</id>
	<title>Re:Not a new concept</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246891560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did Simpsons already do it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did Simpsons already do it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did Simpsons already do it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609901</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246988400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The point is that he doesn't kill villains. He just abuses an anti-spawn-camping mechanic to place his target's into a position that triggers an insta-kill NPC. It's an unavoidable insta-kill, so requires no talent on the part of the player to pull off and since he's sitting in the protected spawn zone, he can't be retaliated on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The point is that he does n't kill villains .
He just abuses an anti-spawn-camping mechanic to place his target 's into a position that triggers an insta-kill NPC .
It 's an unavoidable insta-kill , so requires no talent on the part of the player to pull off and since he 's sitting in the protected spawn zone , he ca n't be retaliated on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The point is that he doesn't kill villains.
He just abuses an anti-spawn-camping mechanic to place his target's into a position that triggers an insta-kill NPC.
It's an unavoidable insta-kill, so requires no talent on the part of the player to pull off and since he's sitting in the protected spawn zone, he can't be retaliated on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603853</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601531</id>
	<title>Weird Interpretation</title>
	<author>mqduck</author>
	<datestamp>1246884060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Myers was stunned by the reaction, since he obeyed the game's rules.</p> </div><p>So he technically follows the rules, yet ignores all the social customs the human beings who play the game created about not being an asshole. People hate him for it, and his conclusion is that "even in a 21st century digital fantasyland, an ugly side of real-world human nature pervades". What?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The professor was disturbed that game rules encouraging competition and varied tactics hardly mattered to gaming community members who wanted to preserve a deeply-rooted culture.</p><p>He said his experience demonstrated that modern-day social groups making use of modern-day technology can revert to "medieval and crude" methods in trying to manipulate and control others.</p><p>"If you aren't a member of the tribe, you get whacked with a stick," he said. "I look at social groups with dismay."</p></div><p>In other words, his idea of freedom, or whatever, is a world of antisocial personalities engaging in pure competition. He is, in other words, an Ayn Rand fan.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Myers was stunned by the reaction , since he obeyed the game 's rules .
So he technically follows the rules , yet ignores all the social customs the human beings who play the game created about not being an asshole .
People hate him for it , and his conclusion is that " even in a 21st century digital fantasyland , an ugly side of real-world human nature pervades " .
What ? The professor was disturbed that game rules encouraging competition and varied tactics hardly mattered to gaming community members who wanted to preserve a deeply-rooted culture.He said his experience demonstrated that modern-day social groups making use of modern-day technology can revert to " medieval and crude " methods in trying to manipulate and control others .
" If you are n't a member of the tribe , you get whacked with a stick , " he said .
" I look at social groups with dismay .
" In other words , his idea of freedom , or whatever , is a world of antisocial personalities engaging in pure competition .
He is , in other words , an Ayn Rand fan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Myers was stunned by the reaction, since he obeyed the game's rules.
So he technically follows the rules, yet ignores all the social customs the human beings who play the game created about not being an asshole.
People hate him for it, and his conclusion is that "even in a 21st century digital fantasyland, an ugly side of real-world human nature pervades".
What?The professor was disturbed that game rules encouraging competition and varied tactics hardly mattered to gaming community members who wanted to preserve a deeply-rooted culture.He said his experience demonstrated that modern-day social groups making use of modern-day technology can revert to "medieval and crude" methods in trying to manipulate and control others.
"If you aren't a member of the tribe, you get whacked with a stick," he said.
"I look at social groups with dismay.
"In other words, his idea of freedom, or whatever, is a world of antisocial personalities engaging in pure competition.
He is, in other words, an Ayn Rand fan.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602169</id>
	<title>Re:Griefer is reviled</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The PvP zones in COH/COV have computer-controlled, extremely powerful guards near the entrances and hospitals so that players cannot be killed by enemies while they are "zoning" and unable to defend themselves.  If you get too close to these guards, you are killed instantly.  If I understand correctly, he used one of the powers in the game to teleport opposing players into range of these guards, killing them instantly before they could react.  Since doing this does not give you credit for defeating the enemy, there is no in-game motivation for most players to use this tactic.  Instead, they choose to battle against each other over objectives elsewhere in the PvP zone, which is apparently what the author describes as a "polite agreement".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The PvP zones in COH/COV have computer-controlled , extremely powerful guards near the entrances and hospitals so that players can not be killed by enemies while they are " zoning " and unable to defend themselves .
If you get too close to these guards , you are killed instantly .
If I understand correctly , he used one of the powers in the game to teleport opposing players into range of these guards , killing them instantly before they could react .
Since doing this does not give you credit for defeating the enemy , there is no in-game motivation for most players to use this tactic .
Instead , they choose to battle against each other over objectives elsewhere in the PvP zone , which is apparently what the author describes as a " polite agreement " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The PvP zones in COH/COV have computer-controlled, extremely powerful guards near the entrances and hospitals so that players cannot be killed by enemies while they are "zoning" and unable to defend themselves.
If you get too close to these guards, you are killed instantly.
If I understand correctly, he used one of the powers in the game to teleport opposing players into range of these guards, killing them instantly before they could react.
Since doing this does not give you credit for defeating the enemy, there is no in-game motivation for most players to use this tactic.
Instead, they choose to battle against each other over objectives elsewhere in the PvP zone, which is apparently what the author describes as a "polite agreement".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601257</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28619799</id>
	<title>Doing what the game intended?</title>
	<author>Shteawa</author>
	<datestamp>1247057220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It seems like a lot of the people arguing that this guy was just "doing what the game intended" don't play CoX (most by their own admission).

The thing you have to understand about PvP in CoX is that it is broken. The game is balanced around PvE. Very few players would get teleport protection (outside of a temporary tp resist from a buff - "inspiration"), because NPCs just didn't teleport players around. PvP zones were added because there was a large enough player base that said they wanted them. And PvP did occur in these zones, just after a while it became more like structured arena matches than an all-out war, since open PvP was mostly just ridiculous.

A lot of people are comparing this to PvP in WoW, which unfortunately, can't really be done. Movement is so available and varied that, in normal PvP (no NPCs getting involved), if someone doesn't want to PvP, you can't force them: they just run away. Almost all players (especially if spec'd for PvP) have at least one power that, if properly buffed, can almost 1-shot another player (and the only reason it can't, is by virtue of the fact that there is a "no-one-shot" rule in place: any attack can only do your hp-1 in damage at most). All players have access to (as with the teleport that Twixt used) invisibility (not just stealth, invisibility).

It sounds like a lot of people are saying that he was in the right to use the zone for its intended purpose, that if they didn't want to PvP, they shouldn't have been in the zone. So excuse me while I try to make a WoW analogy.
Recluse's Victory (RV, the zone Twixt played in) is not Alterac Valley. It is not a zone where you go in and complete your objective with a limited team. RV is open to anybody that wants to come help (above a certain level), and they can leave and reenter as they wish without penalty. There is no reason to be mad at the people not contributing, because it would be the same whether they were there or not, unlike AV, where if people decide to AFK out to farm honour, you'd be better off replacing them with someone who actually will contribute.
RV is more akin to Hellfire Penninsula. You have a zone PvP goal which people largely ignore because they'd rather be doing quests, and every once in a while you'll see someone go take the towers, either for the buff it gives when you control them, or for the quest associated with them. People in HP don't rush to the towers once they see them getting capped, to try to stop the other faction from getting control of the towers, they continue on with what they were doing and mostly ignore it... in fact, a lot of people like it when the other faction takes the towers, because they can then do the quest themselves. What Twixt was doing would be akin to leveling up to 70+, and going and ganking the lvl 60/61s just trying to get the quest done for the marks, because they want the trinket... and then corpse camping them, and killing them as many times as he can until either their flag drops, or they give up and log. He gets nothing from this himself (no HK or honour, because the level difference is too high), and there's no skill involved (because the level difference is too high), and he awards a penalty to his opponent (gold penalty in repairs, and time penalty in the corpse run). If his victims band together to try to take him down as a team, he retreats to Honour Hold/Thrallmar and laughs at them from behind a wall of NPCs.
Although he is "technically" following the rules of the game/zone (capture the towers, make sure the other side doesn't get the towers, kill Alliance/Horde on sight because they're the "bad guys"), corpse camping and killing characters a lot lower than yourself is just not done, unless you want to really tick off the person(s) you're doing it to.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems like a lot of the people arguing that this guy was just " doing what the game intended " do n't play CoX ( most by their own admission ) .
The thing you have to understand about PvP in CoX is that it is broken .
The game is balanced around PvE .
Very few players would get teleport protection ( outside of a temporary tp resist from a buff - " inspiration " ) , because NPCs just did n't teleport players around .
PvP zones were added because there was a large enough player base that said they wanted them .
And PvP did occur in these zones , just after a while it became more like structured arena matches than an all-out war , since open PvP was mostly just ridiculous .
A lot of people are comparing this to PvP in WoW , which unfortunately , ca n't really be done .
Movement is so available and varied that , in normal PvP ( no NPCs getting involved ) , if someone does n't want to PvP , you ca n't force them : they just run away .
Almost all players ( especially if spec 'd for PvP ) have at least one power that , if properly buffed , can almost 1-shot another player ( and the only reason it ca n't , is by virtue of the fact that there is a " no-one-shot " rule in place : any attack can only do your hp-1 in damage at most ) .
All players have access to ( as with the teleport that Twixt used ) invisibility ( not just stealth , invisibility ) .
It sounds like a lot of people are saying that he was in the right to use the zone for its intended purpose , that if they did n't want to PvP , they should n't have been in the zone .
So excuse me while I try to make a WoW analogy .
Recluse 's Victory ( RV , the zone Twixt played in ) is not Alterac Valley .
It is not a zone where you go in and complete your objective with a limited team .
RV is open to anybody that wants to come help ( above a certain level ) , and they can leave and reenter as they wish without penalty .
There is no reason to be mad at the people not contributing , because it would be the same whether they were there or not , unlike AV , where if people decide to AFK out to farm honour , you 'd be better off replacing them with someone who actually will contribute .
RV is more akin to Hellfire Penninsula .
You have a zone PvP goal which people largely ignore because they 'd rather be doing quests , and every once in a while you 'll see someone go take the towers , either for the buff it gives when you control them , or for the quest associated with them .
People in HP do n't rush to the towers once they see them getting capped , to try to stop the other faction from getting control of the towers , they continue on with what they were doing and mostly ignore it... in fact , a lot of people like it when the other faction takes the towers , because they can then do the quest themselves .
What Twixt was doing would be akin to leveling up to 70 + , and going and ganking the lvl 60/61s just trying to get the quest done for the marks , because they want the trinket... and then corpse camping them , and killing them as many times as he can until either their flag drops , or they give up and log .
He gets nothing from this himself ( no HK or honour , because the level difference is too high ) , and there 's no skill involved ( because the level difference is too high ) , and he awards a penalty to his opponent ( gold penalty in repairs , and time penalty in the corpse run ) .
If his victims band together to try to take him down as a team , he retreats to Honour Hold/Thrallmar and laughs at them from behind a wall of NPCs .
Although he is " technically " following the rules of the game/zone ( capture the towers , make sure the other side does n't get the towers , kill Alliance/Horde on sight because they 're the " bad guys " ) , corpse camping and killing characters a lot lower than yourself is just not done , unless you want to really tick off the person ( s ) you 're doing it to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems like a lot of the people arguing that this guy was just "doing what the game intended" don't play CoX (most by their own admission).
The thing you have to understand about PvP in CoX is that it is broken.
The game is balanced around PvE.
Very few players would get teleport protection (outside of a temporary tp resist from a buff - "inspiration"), because NPCs just didn't teleport players around.
PvP zones were added because there was a large enough player base that said they wanted them.
And PvP did occur in these zones, just after a while it became more like structured arena matches than an all-out war, since open PvP was mostly just ridiculous.
A lot of people are comparing this to PvP in WoW, which unfortunately, can't really be done.
Movement is so available and varied that, in normal PvP (no NPCs getting involved), if someone doesn't want to PvP, you can't force them: they just run away.
Almost all players (especially if spec'd for PvP) have at least one power that, if properly buffed, can almost 1-shot another player (and the only reason it can't, is by virtue of the fact that there is a "no-one-shot" rule in place: any attack can only do your hp-1 in damage at most).
All players have access to (as with the teleport that Twixt used) invisibility (not just stealth, invisibility).
It sounds like a lot of people are saying that he was in the right to use the zone for its intended purpose, that if they didn't want to PvP, they shouldn't have been in the zone.
So excuse me while I try to make a WoW analogy.
Recluse's Victory (RV, the zone Twixt played in) is not Alterac Valley.
It is not a zone where you go in and complete your objective with a limited team.
RV is open to anybody that wants to come help (above a certain level), and they can leave and reenter as they wish without penalty.
There is no reason to be mad at the people not contributing, because it would be the same whether they were there or not, unlike AV, where if people decide to AFK out to farm honour, you'd be better off replacing them with someone who actually will contribute.
RV is more akin to Hellfire Penninsula.
You have a zone PvP goal which people largely ignore because they'd rather be doing quests, and every once in a while you'll see someone go take the towers, either for the buff it gives when you control them, or for the quest associated with them.
People in HP don't rush to the towers once they see them getting capped, to try to stop the other faction from getting control of the towers, they continue on with what they were doing and mostly ignore it... in fact, a lot of people like it when the other faction takes the towers, because they can then do the quest themselves.
What Twixt was doing would be akin to leveling up to 70+, and going and ganking the lvl 60/61s just trying to get the quest done for the marks, because they want the trinket... and then corpse camping them, and killing them as many times as he can until either their flag drops, or they give up and log.
He gets nothing from this himself (no HK or honour, because the level difference is too high), and there's no skill involved (because the level difference is too high), and he awards a penalty to his opponent (gold penalty in repairs, and time penalty in the corpse run).
If his victims band together to try to take him down as a team, he retreats to Honour Hold/Thrallmar and laughs at them from behind a wall of NPCs.
Although he is "technically" following the rules of the game/zone (capture the towers, make sure the other side doesn't get the towers, kill Alliance/Horde on sight because they're the "bad guys"), corpse camping and killing characters a lot lower than yourself is just not done, unless you want to really tick off the person(s) you're doing it to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600779</id>
	<title>Re:Full Court Press</title>
	<author>J. Random Human</author>
	<datestamp>1246880040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Malcolm Gladwell wrote an article on just that topic, with some obligatory Doug Lenat computer science content: <a href="http://www.gladwell.com/2009/2009\_05\_11\_a\_david.html" title="gladwell.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.gladwell.com/2009/2009\_05\_11\_a\_david.html</a> [gladwell.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Malcolm Gladwell wrote an article on just that topic , with some obligatory Doug Lenat computer science content : http : //www.gladwell.com/2009/2009 \ _05 \ _11 \ _a \ _david.html [ gladwell.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Malcolm Gladwell wrote an article on just that topic, with some obligatory Doug Lenat computer science content: http://www.gladwell.com/2009/2009\_05\_11\_a\_david.html [gladwell.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600619</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601377</id>
	<title>Re:This reveals a problem in the game's rules...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246883220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Speaking of rule changes, I think college and NBA basketball both really needs to do something about the "last minute fouling" problem where both teams constantly foul each other in the last few minutes of play. It is the epitome of poor sportsmanship, but <em>every</em> team does it because it's advantageous. Proposed simple solution: any foul in the last 5 minutes of the game results in an automatic ejection; second offense in a season = sit the next game out; third offense = sit the next two games out; etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Speaking of rule changes , I think college and NBA basketball both really needs to do something about the " last minute fouling " problem where both teams constantly foul each other in the last few minutes of play .
It is the epitome of poor sportsmanship , but every team does it because it 's advantageous .
Proposed simple solution : any foul in the last 5 minutes of the game results in an automatic ejection ; second offense in a season = sit the next game out ; third offense = sit the next two games out ; etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Speaking of rule changes, I think college and NBA basketball both really needs to do something about the "last minute fouling" problem where both teams constantly foul each other in the last few minutes of play.
It is the epitome of poor sportsmanship, but every team does it because it's advantageous.
Proposed simple solution: any foul in the last 5 minutes of the game results in an automatic ejection; second offense in a season = sit the next game out; third offense = sit the next two games out; etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600851</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601105</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Endo13</author>
	<datestamp>1246881660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not sure which server he played on, but it definitely wasn't the one I played on. Going by the bits and pieces I've heard though, it sounds like he was on Virtue.</p><p>Personally I think he was pretty clever in getting the villains close enough to the police drones to be able to teleport them within range. If I'd been there, I would have helped him. Teleport... poof! I have to chuckle just imagining it. I'm sure it wouldn't have worked on my server, as the villains there for the most part wouldn't be that stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure which server he played on , but it definitely was n't the one I played on .
Going by the bits and pieces I 've heard though , it sounds like he was on Virtue.Personally I think he was pretty clever in getting the villains close enough to the police drones to be able to teleport them within range .
If I 'd been there , I would have helped him .
Teleport... poof !
I have to chuckle just imagining it .
I 'm sure it would n't have worked on my server , as the villains there for the most part would n't be that stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure which server he played on, but it definitely wasn't the one I played on.
Going by the bits and pieces I've heard though, it sounds like he was on Virtue.Personally I think he was pretty clever in getting the villains close enough to the police drones to be able to teleport them within range.
If I'd been there, I would have helped him.
Teleport... poof!
I have to chuckle just imagining it.
I'm sure it wouldn't have worked on my server, as the villains there for the most part wouldn't be that stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602517</id>
	<title>The stated rules and the real rules.</title>
	<author>rayk\_sland</author>
	<datestamp>1246889760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This whole thing interests me greatly. What is it about humanity, that we create societies in which the underlying rules are so often radically different from what is written down?</htmltext>
<tokenext>This whole thing interests me greatly .
What is it about humanity , that we create societies in which the underlying rules are so often radically different from what is written down ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This whole thing interests me greatly.
What is it about humanity, that we create societies in which the underlying rules are so often radically different from what is written down?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609793</id>
	<title>Re:I think this experiment illustrates quite clear</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246987860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being that CoH/CoV has no PvP specific servers/"realms" (e.g. World of Warcraft), and all PvP is engaged in either the arenas or a few special zones only, what this actually "illustrates" (other than the obvious "mob rule" effect in action), is that poor PvP'ers are major whiners.  In this case you have "Syphris" choosing to enter a PvP match and being easily bested by "Twixt".  An obvious ego-blow as illustrated by Syphris' response to being bested so easily.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-p  Go back to PvE and work on your skills with mish teams (or move on to some other way to pass your time) you $*&amp;\%^ whiners.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being that CoH/CoV has no PvP specific servers/ " realms " ( e.g .
World of Warcraft ) , and all PvP is engaged in either the arenas or a few special zones only , what this actually " illustrates " ( other than the obvious " mob rule " effect in action ) , is that poor PvP'ers are major whiners .
In this case you have " Syphris " choosing to enter a PvP match and being easily bested by " Twixt " .
An obvious ego-blow as illustrated by Syphris ' response to being bested so easily .
: -p Go back to PvE and work on your skills with mish teams ( or move on to some other way to pass your time ) you $ * &amp; \ % ^ whiners .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being that CoH/CoV has no PvP specific servers/"realms" (e.g.
World of Warcraft), and all PvP is engaged in either the arenas or a few special zones only, what this actually "illustrates" (other than the obvious "mob rule" effect in action), is that poor PvP'ers are major whiners.
In this case you have "Syphris" choosing to enter a PvP match and being easily bested by "Twixt".
An obvious ego-blow as illustrated by Syphris' response to being bested so easily.
:-p  Go back to PvE and work on your skills with mish teams (or move on to some other way to pass your time) you $*&amp;\%^ whiners.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601801</id>
	<title>Re:Both sides of the mouth..</title>
	<author>mqduck</author>
	<datestamp>1246885440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Is he a cultural anthropologist (probably not, given that anthropologists are trained to work within the social framework of existing cultures as much as possible)</p></div><p>No, he's a man who simply hates culture. He doesn't want to study it. As he's quoted saying at the end of the article: "I look at social groups with dismay."</p><p>And, by the way, the cultural anthropologists' principal of non-interference isn't absolute. In a case like this, employing the scientific method is perfectly valid.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is he a cultural anthropologist ( probably not , given that anthropologists are trained to work within the social framework of existing cultures as much as possible ) No , he 's a man who simply hates culture .
He does n't want to study it .
As he 's quoted saying at the end of the article : " I look at social groups with dismay .
" And , by the way , the cultural anthropologists ' principal of non-interference is n't absolute .
In a case like this , employing the scientific method is perfectly valid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is he a cultural anthropologist (probably not, given that anthropologists are trained to work within the social framework of existing cultures as much as possible)No, he's a man who simply hates culture.
He doesn't want to study it.
As he's quoted saying at the end of the article: "I look at social groups with dismay.
"And, by the way, the cultural anthropologists' principal of non-interference isn't absolute.
In a case like this, employing the scientific method is perfectly valid.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28606451</id>
	<title>Re:I think this experiment illustrates quite clear</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246973880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's right. Now, please walk this way.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's right .
Now , please walk this way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's right.
Now, please walk this way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28608707</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Demonantis</author>
	<datestamp>1246983660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the other guy is feeling like he is being trolled he can go to another server. If I am following what is allowed in the game why should I move servers if there is an issue. Hand in hand, if they know it bothers you. They are doing it to get a rise out of it. People do it all the time in grade school.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the other guy is feeling like he is being trolled he can go to another server .
If I am following what is allowed in the game why should I move servers if there is an issue .
Hand in hand , if they know it bothers you .
They are doing it to get a rise out of it .
People do it all the time in grade school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the other guy is feeling like he is being trolled he can go to another server.
If I am following what is allowed in the game why should I move servers if there is an issue.
Hand in hand, if they know it bothers you.
They are doing it to get a rise out of it.
People do it all the time in grade school.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605667</id>
	<title>The man was an idiot.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246966020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every gaming community evolves its modes of accepted behaviour beyond a mere "this is what the game allows". Forget that what he did was "legal" in game terms; his offence was to fail to recognise that he was joining a community and therefore to repeatedly behave in a way that spoiled the enjoyment of the game for other players. If he can't see that and doesn't understand why he should therefore have found himself held in contempt, then (professor or not) he isn't sufficiently dispassionate for his research to be of value.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every gaming community evolves its modes of accepted behaviour beyond a mere " this is what the game allows " .
Forget that what he did was " legal " in game terms ; his offence was to fail to recognise that he was joining a community and therefore to repeatedly behave in a way that spoiled the enjoyment of the game for other players .
If he ca n't see that and does n't understand why he should therefore have found himself held in contempt , then ( professor or not ) he is n't sufficiently dispassionate for his research to be of value .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every gaming community evolves its modes of accepted behaviour beyond a mere "this is what the game allows".
Forget that what he did was "legal" in game terms; his offence was to fail to recognise that he was joining a community and therefore to repeatedly behave in a way that spoiled the enjoyment of the game for other players.
If he can't see that and doesn't understand why he should therefore have found himself held in contempt, then (professor or not) he isn't sufficiently dispassionate for his research to be of value.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602705</id>
	<title>amazing moocher off society!</title>
	<author>opinion</author>
	<datestamp>1246891620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This researcher is the ultimate in "gaming" the system and in being a jerk. He gets paid to play a video game all day, where he chooses to exploit in ways that are meant to annoy everyone else. He then publishes on how he's supposedly shocked that people don't love him for this. His own example is much more remarkable than that of the other players--he's very good at showing how stupid this culture is--by actually paying him to be an ejerk.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This researcher is the ultimate in " gaming " the system and in being a jerk .
He gets paid to play a video game all day , where he chooses to exploit in ways that are meant to annoy everyone else .
He then publishes on how he 's supposedly shocked that people do n't love him for this .
His own example is much more remarkable than that of the other players--he 's very good at showing how stupid this culture is--by actually paying him to be an ejerk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This researcher is the ultimate in "gaming" the system and in being a jerk.
He gets paid to play a video game all day, where he chooses to exploit in ways that are meant to annoy everyone else.
He then publishes on how he's supposedly shocked that people don't love him for this.
His own example is much more remarkable than that of the other players--he's very good at showing how stupid this culture is--by actually paying him to be an ejerk.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603981</id>
	<title>going to buy a copy now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246901640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Time someone teaches these 'Heroes' what villainy is all about!</p><p>Wait'll they get a load of me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Time someone teaches these 'Heroes ' what villainy is all about ! Wait 'll they get a load of me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Time someone teaches these 'Heroes' what villainy is all about!Wait'll they get a load of me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28652769</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>lusiphur69</author>
	<datestamp>1247253480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'The game equivalent of Charles Manson'</p><p>Exaggerate much? This is typical of the attitude of carebears, who even when they enter a area clearly marked and deliniated 'BEWARE OF SHARKS' are prone to fits of hysteria when a shark actually bites them.</p><p>"How dare that shark bite me! That hurt! How was I supposed to know there were sharks here?'</p><p>Please, take the sociopath comparisons and other hyperbole to your personal blog where you may find a sympathetic audience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'The game equivalent of Charles Manson'Exaggerate much ?
This is typical of the attitude of carebears , who even when they enter a area clearly marked and deliniated 'BEWARE OF SHARKS ' are prone to fits of hysteria when a shark actually bites them .
" How dare that shark bite me !
That hurt !
How was I supposed to know there were sharks here ?
'Please , take the sociopath comparisons and other hyperbole to your personal blog where you may find a sympathetic audience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'The game equivalent of Charles Manson'Exaggerate much?
This is typical of the attitude of carebears, who even when they enter a area clearly marked and deliniated 'BEWARE OF SHARKS' are prone to fits of hysteria when a shark actually bites them.
"How dare that shark bite me!
That hurt!
How was I supposed to know there were sharks here?
'Please, take the sociopath comparisons and other hyperbole to your personal blog where you may find a sympathetic audience.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601879</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>Pyrion</author>
	<datestamp>1246885800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As far as the game world allows. That's the beauty of it. You describe the game world as being specifically engineered to make griefing a snap, and so that's exactly what he's doing, much to the consternation of the players that are using PvP zones as makeshift chat rooms. That so many people are getting butthurt over this makes it all the funnier. Not to mention insightful, in terms of how butthurt people will tend to get over something as intangible and irrelevant as an online avatar. I mean, if all they're there for is to chat, what do they care about stats?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as the game world allows .
That 's the beauty of it .
You describe the game world as being specifically engineered to make griefing a snap , and so that 's exactly what he 's doing , much to the consternation of the players that are using PvP zones as makeshift chat rooms .
That so many people are getting butthurt over this makes it all the funnier .
Not to mention insightful , in terms of how butthurt people will tend to get over something as intangible and irrelevant as an online avatar .
I mean , if all they 're there for is to chat , what do they care about stats ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as the game world allows.
That's the beauty of it.
You describe the game world as being specifically engineered to make griefing a snap, and so that's exactly what he's doing, much to the consternation of the players that are using PvP zones as makeshift chat rooms.
That so many people are getting butthurt over this makes it all the funnier.
Not to mention insightful, in terms of how butthurt people will tend to get over something as intangible and irrelevant as an online avatar.
I mean, if all they're there for is to chat, what do they care about stats?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601851</id>
	<title>Ha</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246885680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I love how online game etiquette gets discussed as if its actually relevant. Makes me smile.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I love how online game etiquette gets discussed as if its actually relevant .
Makes me smile .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love how online game etiquette gets discussed as if its actually relevant.
Makes me smile.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600809</id>
	<title>Kids today!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246880160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since the average age of these games is 24, they are the same whiny millennials he sees everyday in class. I bet some parents called up and asked him why he was so mean to their kid who was just hanging out with their friends in their nice little game, and then asked why they only got a 98\% on the last test.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since the average age of these games is 24 , they are the same whiny millennials he sees everyday in class .
I bet some parents called up and asked him why he was so mean to their kid who was just hanging out with their friends in their nice little game , and then asked why they only got a 98 \ % on the last test .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since the average age of these games is 24, they are the same whiny millennials he sees everyday in class.
I bet some parents called up and asked him why he was so mean to their kid who was just hanging out with their friends in their nice little game, and then asked why they only got a 98\% on the last test.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28608481</id>
	<title>What he wasn't saying</title>
	<author>T.E.D.</author>
	<datestamp>1246982880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The entrance to every zone in COH/COV is an area protected by police robots. The robots have rays that instantly kill anything in the game. The purpose of this is to prevent anyone from greifing people who are in the process of entering the area and don't have control of their characters yet.

</p><p>If it weren't for these robots, then greifers could drag powerful mobs into the entrance area, or in the PvP area just stand in the enemy entrance area with a buddy or two, and prevent anyone from being able to enter without getting killed before having a chance to fight back at all.

</p><p>There's also a "teleport foe" skill you can take, which is very handy for pulling, or for when an enemy gets stuck in a wall.

</p><p>What this guy appeared to be doing was going into the PvP area and using teleport foe to teleport players on the other side into his own insta-death protected entrance area.

</p><p>It is a very clever way to use the dev's griefer protection tools to grief people. What is most certianly is <em>not</em> is "playing the game by the designer's rules".

</p><p>If you've ever had a conversation with a game griefer where they dumped their rationalizations for their prickish behavior on you, this article will look very familiar to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The entrance to every zone in COH/COV is an area protected by police robots .
The robots have rays that instantly kill anything in the game .
The purpose of this is to prevent anyone from greifing people who are in the process of entering the area and do n't have control of their characters yet .
If it were n't for these robots , then greifers could drag powerful mobs into the entrance area , or in the PvP area just stand in the enemy entrance area with a buddy or two , and prevent anyone from being able to enter without getting killed before having a chance to fight back at all .
There 's also a " teleport foe " skill you can take , which is very handy for pulling , or for when an enemy gets stuck in a wall .
What this guy appeared to be doing was going into the PvP area and using teleport foe to teleport players on the other side into his own insta-death protected entrance area .
It is a very clever way to use the dev 's griefer protection tools to grief people .
What is most certianly is not is " playing the game by the designer 's rules " .
If you 've ever had a conversation with a game griefer where they dumped their rationalizations for their prickish behavior on you , this article will look very familiar to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The entrance to every zone in COH/COV is an area protected by police robots.
The robots have rays that instantly kill anything in the game.
The purpose of this is to prevent anyone from greifing people who are in the process of entering the area and don't have control of their characters yet.
If it weren't for these robots, then greifers could drag powerful mobs into the entrance area, or in the PvP area just stand in the enemy entrance area with a buddy or two, and prevent anyone from being able to enter without getting killed before having a chance to fight back at all.
There's also a "teleport foe" skill you can take, which is very handy for pulling, or for when an enemy gets stuck in a wall.
What this guy appeared to be doing was going into the PvP area and using teleport foe to teleport players on the other side into his own insta-death protected entrance area.
It is a very clever way to use the dev's griefer protection tools to grief people.
What is most certianly is not is "playing the game by the designer's rules".
If you've ever had a conversation with a game griefer where they dumped their rationalizations for their prickish behavior on you, this article will look very familiar to you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28617679</id>
	<title>Major research faults here</title>
	<author>masmullin</author>
	<datestamp>1246986420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>IMHO this is really poor science, and even worse philosophy.  After reading the paper, I see some major research faults here.<br><br>1) He didn't inform the participants that they were involved in the experiment : major ethical violation<br>2) Instead of using an experimental group with a rigid guideline of experimental procedures (eg hiring someone to play CoH as Twixt, giving them a specific list of actions they should do), Myers used himself in the experiment and basically made up the rules as he went along.  Myers states "While in the beginning, Twixt played by these rules in silence, as time went by, Twixt became increasingly verbal in an attempt to explain his goals and motivations."  In my view this change in Twixt's attitude could influence the test results.<br>2b)  It is clear from his blog site that he was emotionally invested in the game, and thus Myer's research ability was negat&amp;#239;&amp;#187;&amp;#191;ively impacted by the desires he imparted on his character.  As we all know from Mr Spock, emotion makes bad science.<br><br>After reading the paper I think it's rather clear that Myers is attempting to justify his crudeness in the game, and didn't have any real scientific interests in mind when he started the experiment.  Either that, or he is a poor experimenter.  Basically Myers found a loophole in the game which would make him near invincible and is attempting to justify his characters superiority (and thus boost Myer's self esteem) by writing a paper claiming he did everything in the name of scientific research.</htmltext>
<tokenext>IMHO this is really poor science , and even worse philosophy .
After reading the paper , I see some major research faults here.1 ) He did n't inform the participants that they were involved in the experiment : major ethical violation2 ) Instead of using an experimental group with a rigid guideline of experimental procedures ( eg hiring someone to play CoH as Twixt , giving them a specific list of actions they should do ) , Myers used himself in the experiment and basically made up the rules as he went along .
Myers states " While in the beginning , Twixt played by these rules in silence , as time went by , Twixt became increasingly verbal in an attempt to explain his goals and motivations .
" In my view this change in Twixt 's attitude could influence the test results.2b ) It is clear from his blog site that he was emotionally invested in the game , and thus Myer 's research ability was negat       ively impacted by the desires he imparted on his character .
As we all know from Mr Spock , emotion makes bad science.After reading the paper I think it 's rather clear that Myers is attempting to justify his crudeness in the game , and did n't have any real scientific interests in mind when he started the experiment .
Either that , or he is a poor experimenter .
Basically Myers found a loophole in the game which would make him near invincible and is attempting to justify his characters superiority ( and thus boost Myer 's self esteem ) by writing a paper claiming he did everything in the name of scientific research .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IMHO this is really poor science, and even worse philosophy.
After reading the paper, I see some major research faults here.1) He didn't inform the participants that they were involved in the experiment : major ethical violation2) Instead of using an experimental group with a rigid guideline of experimental procedures (eg hiring someone to play CoH as Twixt, giving them a specific list of actions they should do), Myers used himself in the experiment and basically made up the rules as he went along.
Myers states "While in the beginning, Twixt played by these rules in silence, as time went by, Twixt became increasingly verbal in an attempt to explain his goals and motivations.
"  In my view this change in Twixt's attitude could influence the test results.2b)  It is clear from his blog site that he was emotionally invested in the game, and thus Myer's research ability was negatï»¿ively impacted by the desires he imparted on his character.
As we all know from Mr Spock, emotion makes bad science.After reading the paper I think it's rather clear that Myers is attempting to justify his crudeness in the game, and didn't have any real scientific interests in mind when he started the experiment.
Either that, or he is a poor experimenter.
Basically Myers found a loophole in the game which would make him near invincible and is attempting to justify his characters superiority (and thus boost Myer's self esteem) by writing a paper claiming he did everything in the name of scientific research.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</id>
	<title>within the rules doesnt mean its within the rules</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1246879440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>just because a game developer didnt prevent something doesnt mean that its within the rules. the game developer doesnt play that game. even if s/he/they do, they constitute a near zero percentage of the game's players.</p><p>any mmo you play are played by thousands of people. thousands of people create its environment, make it run, keep the machine running (raiding, pvp, crafting, trade, events, everything). they are the world there, and they set the social climate. noone, including the developers, can do shit about this. if developers force any player base into something they do not like, they QUIT. and go to another game. it happened many times, for many games, including some top, up-and-coming, much hyped titles.</p><p>therefore, for all those badass/darth maul wannabee morons out there - you wont be able to freely be a badass asshole even in a mmo game - regardless how hard you argue that 'its within the rules', any assholery you commit is going to get added to your reputation, and eventually you'll find yourself changing your realm AND your character's nickname. people doesnt give a shit about what's within the hard rules of the game or not - they have their own opinions and judgments - noone can change that, neither a badass wannabee asshole, or self-righteous developer.</p><p>so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>just because a game developer didnt prevent something doesnt mean that its within the rules .
the game developer doesnt play that game .
even if s/he/they do , they constitute a near zero percentage of the game 's players.any mmo you play are played by thousands of people .
thousands of people create its environment , make it run , keep the machine running ( raiding , pvp , crafting , trade , events , everything ) .
they are the world there , and they set the social climate .
noone , including the developers , can do shit about this .
if developers force any player base into something they do not like , they QUIT .
and go to another game .
it happened many times , for many games , including some top , up-and-coming , much hyped titles.therefore , for all those badass/darth maul wannabee morons out there - you wont be able to freely be a badass asshole even in a mmo game - regardless how hard you argue that 'its within the rules ' , any assholery you commit is going to get added to your reputation , and eventually you 'll find yourself changing your realm AND your character 's nickname .
people doesnt give a shit about what 's within the hard rules of the game or not - they have their own opinions and judgments - noone can change that , neither a badass wannabee asshole , or self-righteous developer.so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules ' , and get used to living in a society .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>just because a game developer didnt prevent something doesnt mean that its within the rules.
the game developer doesnt play that game.
even if s/he/they do, they constitute a near zero percentage of the game's players.any mmo you play are played by thousands of people.
thousands of people create its environment, make it run, keep the machine running (raiding, pvp, crafting, trade, events, everything).
they are the world there, and they set the social climate.
noone, including the developers, can do shit about this.
if developers force any player base into something they do not like, they QUIT.
and go to another game.
it happened many times, for many games, including some top, up-and-coming, much hyped titles.therefore, for all those badass/darth maul wannabee morons out there - you wont be able to freely be a badass asshole even in a mmo game - regardless how hard you argue that 'its within the rules', any assholery you commit is going to get added to your reputation, and eventually you'll find yourself changing your realm AND your character's nickname.
people doesnt give a shit about what's within the hard rules of the game or not - they have their own opinions and judgments - noone can change that, neither a badass wannabee asshole, or self-righteous developer.so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601959</id>
	<title>Re:This reveals a problem in the game's rules...</title>
	<author>TubeSteak</author>
	<datestamp>1246886280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If legal play can ruin the game, the rules need to be changed. Pure and simple. You can't trust the players to "be nice."</p></div><p>The problem is exactly the opposite of what you're stating.<br>Here's the best analogy I can think of:<br>Christmas Eve in the trenches during WWI and WWII</p><p>You have a bunch of soldiers singing songs and chit chatting despite carrying guns and bayonets in a PvP zone. It isn't the rules that are subverting 'the game,' it is the players. Because they are being nice.</p><p>I seriously doubt the devs behind City of Heroes expected their PvP zone to turn into a social club for experience farming and 1on1 duels. Imagine what Eve Online would be like if the social norm there wasn't "no rules."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If legal play can ruin the game , the rules need to be changed .
Pure and simple .
You ca n't trust the players to " be nice .
" The problem is exactly the opposite of what you 're stating.Here 's the best analogy I can think of : Christmas Eve in the trenches during WWI and WWIIYou have a bunch of soldiers singing songs and chit chatting despite carrying guns and bayonets in a PvP zone .
It is n't the rules that are subverting 'the game, ' it is the players .
Because they are being nice.I seriously doubt the devs behind City of Heroes expected their PvP zone to turn into a social club for experience farming and 1on1 duels .
Imagine what Eve Online would be like if the social norm there was n't " no rules .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If legal play can ruin the game, the rules need to be changed.
Pure and simple.
You can't trust the players to "be nice.
"The problem is exactly the opposite of what you're stating.Here's the best analogy I can think of:Christmas Eve in the trenches during WWI and WWIIYou have a bunch of soldiers singing songs and chit chatting despite carrying guns and bayonets in a PvP zone.
It isn't the rules that are subverting 'the game,' it is the players.
Because they are being nice.I seriously doubt the devs behind City of Heroes expected their PvP zone to turn into a social club for experience farming and 1on1 duels.
Imagine what Eve Online would be like if the social norm there wasn't "no rules.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600851</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600563</id>
	<title>Ok, so...</title>
	<author>Tenek</author>
	<datestamp>1246879020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>After being "chilled" by players threatening to kill him, he then goes and publishes his personal information. Brilliant.<br> <br>
That said, I I think <a href="http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html" title="sirlin.net">Sirlin</a> [sirlin.net] would have something to say to the scrubs complaining about his tactics.</htmltext>
<tokenext>After being " chilled " by players threatening to kill him , he then goes and publishes his personal information .
Brilliant . That said , I I think Sirlin [ sirlin.net ] would have something to say to the scrubs complaining about his tactics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After being "chilled" by players threatening to kill him, he then goes and publishes his personal information.
Brilliant. 
That said, I I think Sirlin [sirlin.net] would have something to say to the scrubs complaining about his tactics.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601909</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>aztektum</author>
	<datestamp>1246886040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Games rules say: Run around in this area and kill NPCs and you get extra XP; But watch out, players of the opposing faction can fuck with you.</p><p>This guy was playing the game right: As a hero, his job is to fucking kill villains. I would do the same thing.</p><p>IMO it's the people trying to discourage him that are the social misfits. Threatening a guy with physical injury, despite the unlikely nature of them being able to follow through, over a video game, is pretty childish.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Games rules say : Run around in this area and kill NPCs and you get extra XP ; But watch out , players of the opposing faction can fuck with you.This guy was playing the game right : As a hero , his job is to fucking kill villains .
I would do the same thing.IMO it 's the people trying to discourage him that are the social misfits .
Threatening a guy with physical injury , despite the unlikely nature of them being able to follow through , over a video game , is pretty childish .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games rules say: Run around in this area and kill NPCs and you get extra XP; But watch out, players of the opposing faction can fuck with you.This guy was playing the game right: As a hero, his job is to fucking kill villains.
I would do the same thing.IMO it's the people trying to discourage him that are the social misfits.
Threatening a guy with physical injury, despite the unlikely nature of them being able to follow through, over a video game, is pretty childish.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600589</id>
	<title>Gamers suck</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246879140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>God I hate gamers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>God I hate gamers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God I hate gamers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28608183</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1246981740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>In the real world, the people who make the laws of our society are our society's "developers," but the people who actually live in the world, or the "players," often set up unwritten rules.</i></p><p>See <a href="http://www.sj-r.com/news/x631614779/Fireworks-calls-keep-police-busy" title="sj-r.com">Illegal fireworks: Call the cops or let it slide?</a> [sj-r.com]</p><p><i>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.</i></p><p>That's illegal in Illinois. It's legal to drive 45 in the left lane, but if someone comes up behind you you must get over.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the real world , the people who make the laws of our society are our society 's " developers , " but the people who actually live in the world , or the " players , " often set up unwritten rules.See Illegal fireworks : Call the cops or let it slide ?
[ sj-r.com ] It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.That 's illegal in Illinois .
It 's legal to drive 45 in the left lane , but if someone comes up behind you you must get over .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the real world, the people who make the laws of our society are our society's "developers," but the people who actually live in the world, or the "players," often set up unwritten rules.See Illegal fireworks: Call the cops or let it slide?
[sj-r.com]It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.That's illegal in Illinois.
It's legal to drive 45 in the left lane, but if someone comes up behind you you must get over.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600981</id>
	<title>Re:Full Court Press</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246881180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Interesting article on just that subject:</p><p>http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa\_fact\_gladwell</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Interesting article on just that subject : http : //www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa \ _fact \ _gladwell</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interesting article on just that subject:http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa\_fact\_gladwell</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600619</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604709</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>mcvos</author>
	<datestamp>1246997520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.  Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do,</p></div><p>Not over here. Dutch traffic law has a rule that basically amounts to: "don't be an ass". It's the most important rule in the traffic code, and it means you don't get to drive slow in the left lane, overtake on busy intersections, and other stupid stuff like that.</p><p>It sounds like the researcher violated the "don't be an ass" rule.</p><p><b>Researcher discovers correlation between acting like a jerk and being unpopular</b> would probably be a good headline.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do,Not over here .
Dutch traffic law has a rule that basically amounts to : " do n't be an ass " .
It 's the most important rule in the traffic code , and it means you do n't get to drive slow in the left lane , overtake on busy intersections , and other stupid stuff like that.It sounds like the researcher violated the " do n't be an ass " rule.Researcher discovers correlation between acting like a jerk and being unpopular would probably be a good headline .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do,Not over here.
Dutch traffic law has a rule that basically amounts to: "don't be an ass".
It's the most important rule in the traffic code, and it means you don't get to drive slow in the left lane, overtake on busy intersections, and other stupid stuff like that.It sounds like the researcher violated the "don't be an ass" rule.Researcher discovers correlation between acting like a jerk and being unpopular would probably be a good headline.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28610839</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>mcmcc</author>
	<datestamp>1246992060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In fact it's not even really legal to "drive" in the passing lane. The right lane is for driving, and the left lane is for passing. If, you're in the left lane you're supposed to be passing. You could actually get a ticket for driving in the left lane, regardless of speed, but most people probably aren't even aware of that.</p></div><p>It appears there is much you are not aware of either:  <a href="http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html" title="mit.edu" rel="nofollow">http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html</a> [mit.edu]</p><p>There are exactly 8 US states where it is outright illegal to be in the left lane when not passing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In fact it 's not even really legal to " drive " in the passing lane .
The right lane is for driving , and the left lane is for passing .
If , you 're in the left lane you 're supposed to be passing .
You could actually get a ticket for driving in the left lane , regardless of speed , but most people probably are n't even aware of that.It appears there is much you are not aware of either : http : //www.mit.edu/ ~ jfc/right.html [ mit.edu ] There are exactly 8 US states where it is outright illegal to be in the left lane when not passing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In fact it's not even really legal to "drive" in the passing lane.
The right lane is for driving, and the left lane is for passing.
If, you're in the left lane you're supposed to be passing.
You could actually get a ticket for driving in the left lane, regardless of speed, but most people probably aren't even aware of that.It appears there is much you are not aware of either:  http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html [mit.edu]There are exactly 8 US states where it is outright illegal to be in the left lane when not passing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603933</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604381</id>
	<title>You've heard of RTFM...</title>
	<author>Duggeek</author>
	<datestamp>1246906860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...so I guess now there's going to be &ldquo;PTFG&rdquo;.</p><p>The &lsquo;P&rsquo; stands for &ldquo;play&rdquo;, and if you can't figure out the rest, what are you doing here?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...so I guess now there 's going to be    PTFG    .The    P    stands for    play    , and if you ca n't figure out the rest , what are you doing here ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...so I guess now there's going to be “PTFG”.The ‘P’ stands for “play”, and if you can't figure out the rest, what are you doing here?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</id>
	<title>He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>Kelbear</author>
	<datestamp>1246880520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It sounds like this "professor" really never learned the details about what he's playing.</p><p>In this particular game, player vs. player combat is for the most part consensual. The speed of travel in the game is so fast that the only way to kill someone is for them to be willing to slow down and have a fight to the death. The developers go to greath lengths to minimize the ways in which one player can interfere with other players.</p><p>Being killed by a player has no penalty in a PvP zone, you're just sent back to the entrance of the zone. However, the computer controlled "cartoon" enemies in the zone will inflict an experience loss(known as "debt") on the players that die by their hand, and this loss takes a considerable amount of time to mitigate. There are players in this zone who are there to defeat the enemies because they give increased experience, they aren't there to fight or interact with enemy players in any way and are left alone instead.</p><p>There's no benefit to winning by dropping the enemy into the computer controlled enemies, since the computer takes the credit for killing him. So essentially, he is disrupting the gameplay of the other players, inflicting a loss of time, and for no personal gain aside from schadenfreude. A classic troll.</p><p>He's not bucking social norms, he's being a sociopath as far the game world allows. The results are not suprising, interesting, or even insightful. If he wanted to buck social norms, he should play a healer character who focuses only on his weak offensive abilities. That's the game-equivalent of being a social outcast. He's going for the game-equivalent of Charles Manson.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds like this " professor " really never learned the details about what he 's playing.In this particular game , player vs. player combat is for the most part consensual .
The speed of travel in the game is so fast that the only way to kill someone is for them to be willing to slow down and have a fight to the death .
The developers go to greath lengths to minimize the ways in which one player can interfere with other players.Being killed by a player has no penalty in a PvP zone , you 're just sent back to the entrance of the zone .
However , the computer controlled " cartoon " enemies in the zone will inflict an experience loss ( known as " debt " ) on the players that die by their hand , and this loss takes a considerable amount of time to mitigate .
There are players in this zone who are there to defeat the enemies because they give increased experience , they are n't there to fight or interact with enemy players in any way and are left alone instead.There 's no benefit to winning by dropping the enemy into the computer controlled enemies , since the computer takes the credit for killing him .
So essentially , he is disrupting the gameplay of the other players , inflicting a loss of time , and for no personal gain aside from schadenfreude .
A classic troll.He 's not bucking social norms , he 's being a sociopath as far the game world allows .
The results are not suprising , interesting , or even insightful .
If he wanted to buck social norms , he should play a healer character who focuses only on his weak offensive abilities .
That 's the game-equivalent of being a social outcast .
He 's going for the game-equivalent of Charles Manson .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds like this "professor" really never learned the details about what he's playing.In this particular game, player vs. player combat is for the most part consensual.
The speed of travel in the game is so fast that the only way to kill someone is for them to be willing to slow down and have a fight to the death.
The developers go to greath lengths to minimize the ways in which one player can interfere with other players.Being killed by a player has no penalty in a PvP zone, you're just sent back to the entrance of the zone.
However, the computer controlled "cartoon" enemies in the zone will inflict an experience loss(known as "debt") on the players that die by their hand, and this loss takes a considerable amount of time to mitigate.
There are players in this zone who are there to defeat the enemies because they give increased experience, they aren't there to fight or interact with enemy players in any way and are left alone instead.There's no benefit to winning by dropping the enemy into the computer controlled enemies, since the computer takes the credit for killing him.
So essentially, he is disrupting the gameplay of the other players, inflicting a loss of time, and for no personal gain aside from schadenfreude.
A classic troll.He's not bucking social norms, he's being a sociopath as far the game world allows.
The results are not suprising, interesting, or even insightful.
If he wanted to buck social norms, he should play a healer character who focuses only on his weak offensive abilities.
That's the game-equivalent of being a social outcast.
He's going for the game-equivalent of Charles Manson.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600549</id>
	<title>Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246878960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, a researcher enters a foreign land.  He obeys the strict letter of the law, but ignores the customs and rules of polite behavior.  Even more, he specifically sets out to break those customs and rules of polite society.  The natives push back, telling him that he is being rude.  He continues to break the customs and rules of polite society, offending large numbers of people on a regular basis.  The natives seek every legal avenue and socially acceptable method to drive him away.  He continues to offend.  Some natives start pushing what is social acceptable, and skirting the edges of legality.

</p><p>Wow, color me surprised.  Those nasty natives!  How dare they try to keep you down!

</p><p>Perhaps as followup research he can start referring to people of other ethnicity using racial slurs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , a researcher enters a foreign land .
He obeys the strict letter of the law , but ignores the customs and rules of polite behavior .
Even more , he specifically sets out to break those customs and rules of polite society .
The natives push back , telling him that he is being rude .
He continues to break the customs and rules of polite society , offending large numbers of people on a regular basis .
The natives seek every legal avenue and socially acceptable method to drive him away .
He continues to offend .
Some natives start pushing what is social acceptable , and skirting the edges of legality .
Wow , color me surprised .
Those nasty natives !
How dare they try to keep you down !
Perhaps as followup research he can start referring to people of other ethnicity using racial slurs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, a researcher enters a foreign land.
He obeys the strict letter of the law, but ignores the customs and rules of polite behavior.
Even more, he specifically sets out to break those customs and rules of polite society.
The natives push back, telling him that he is being rude.
He continues to break the customs and rules of polite society, offending large numbers of people on a regular basis.
The natives seek every legal avenue and socially acceptable method to drive him away.
He continues to offend.
Some natives start pushing what is social acceptable, and skirting the edges of legality.
Wow, color me surprised.
Those nasty natives!
How dare they try to keep you down!
Perhaps as followup research he can start referring to people of other ethnicity using racial slurs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602179</id>
	<title>wait a sec...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>isn't this why people hate emos?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>is n't this why people hate emos ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>isn't this why people hate emos?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600571</id>
	<title>Carebears</title>
	<author>hardburn</author>
	<datestamp>1246879020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Myers, who bought "City of Heroes" when it hit store shelves in 2004, quickly learned that players ignored the area's stated purpose. Heroes chatted peacefully with villains in the combat zone. Instead of fighting each other, members of the two factions sparred with computer-controlled enemies..</p></div><p>What kind of silly carebear game is this? Try Eve, where the time it takes to rid yourself of such nonsense is measured in the time it takes to warm up a railgun.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Myers , who bought " City of Heroes " when it hit store shelves in 2004 , quickly learned that players ignored the area 's stated purpose .
Heroes chatted peacefully with villains in the combat zone .
Instead of fighting each other , members of the two factions sparred with computer-controlled enemies..What kind of silly carebear game is this ?
Try Eve , where the time it takes to rid yourself of such nonsense is measured in the time it takes to warm up a railgun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Myers, who bought "City of Heroes" when it hit store shelves in 2004, quickly learned that players ignored the area's stated purpose.
Heroes chatted peacefully with villains in the combat zone.
Instead of fighting each other, members of the two factions sparred with computer-controlled enemies..What kind of silly carebear game is this?
Try Eve, where the time it takes to rid yourself of such nonsense is measured in the time it takes to warm up a railgun.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602983</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>MostAwesomeDude</author>
	<datestamp>1246893840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, it's more like my real-life experiences driving on the freeway, where I drive 65 MPH on the 65 MPH road, and get cursed at for not speeding like everybody else.</p><p>Just thought a better car analogy would be useful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , it 's more like my real-life experiences driving on the freeway , where I drive 65 MPH on the 65 MPH road , and get cursed at for not speeding like everybody else.Just thought a better car analogy would be useful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, it's more like my real-life experiences driving on the freeway, where I drive 65 MPH on the 65 MPH road, and get cursed at for not speeding like everybody else.Just thought a better car analogy would be useful.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603451</id>
	<title>Conclusion:</title>
	<author>tokyoahead</author>
	<datestamp>1246897080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>MMO players are all potential mass murderers and terrorists!<br>All computer games must be prohibited so people can go back and watch something as peaceful as CNN and live happily ever after.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MMO players are all potential mass murderers and terrorists ! All computer games must be prohibited so people can go back and watch something as peaceful as CNN and live happily ever after .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MMO players are all potential mass murderers and terrorists!All computer games must be prohibited so people can go back and watch something as peaceful as CNN and live happily ever after.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603931</id>
	<title>The professor learned the wrong lesson.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246900980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He did something that people hated.  They tried to handle it with in-game mechanics, but that failed.  They they moved on to using social pressure.</p><p>This isn't anything novel.  This isn't anything new.  This is exactly how human civilization has worked for the last twenty thousand years:  1) Notice something is a problem.  2) Try to handle it within the rules (call the police, hit it with your saber-tooth-killin' club, whatever).  3) If (2) fails, then move on to social ostracism.</p><p>If this isn't the lesson that the professor learned, then he's a total imbecile.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He did something that people hated .
They tried to handle it with in-game mechanics , but that failed .
They they moved on to using social pressure.This is n't anything novel .
This is n't anything new .
This is exactly how human civilization has worked for the last twenty thousand years : 1 ) Notice something is a problem .
2 ) Try to handle it within the rules ( call the police , hit it with your saber-tooth-killin ' club , whatever ) .
3 ) If ( 2 ) fails , then move on to social ostracism.If this is n't the lesson that the professor learned , then he 's a total imbecile .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He did something that people hated.
They tried to handle it with in-game mechanics, but that failed.
They they moved on to using social pressure.This isn't anything novel.
This isn't anything new.
This is exactly how human civilization has worked for the last twenty thousand years:  1) Notice something is a problem.
2) Try to handle it within the rules (call the police, hit it with your saber-tooth-killin' club, whatever).
3) If (2) fails, then move on to social ostracism.If this isn't the lesson that the professor learned, then he's a total imbecile.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604427</id>
	<title>The Phelps Effect</title>
	<author>Tatarize</author>
	<datestamp>1246907640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So he's discovered the Phelps effect works in video games? That if you don't technically break a rule, but are a total jackass people don't like you. Gee. Who ever could have guess... um... everybody.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So he 's discovered the Phelps effect works in video games ?
That if you do n't technically break a rule , but are a total jackass people do n't like you .
Gee. Who ever could have guess... um... everybody .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So he's discovered the Phelps effect works in video games?
That if you don't technically break a rule, but are a total jackass people don't like you.
Gee. Who ever could have guess... um... everybody.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603185</id>
	<title>For someone who studies games...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246895160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He sure doesn't seem to know an awful lot. Anonymity alone is enough to bring out more aggression than usual on the internet. These people that hated him aren't evil, or wrong. He was basically spitting in everyone's face and disregarding common social standards and he expected people to take it lightly?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He sure does n't seem to know an awful lot .
Anonymity alone is enough to bring out more aggression than usual on the internet .
These people that hated him are n't evil , or wrong .
He was basically spitting in everyone 's face and disregarding common social standards and he expected people to take it lightly ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He sure doesn't seem to know an awful lot.
Anonymity alone is enough to bring out more aggression than usual on the internet.
These people that hated him aren't evil, or wrong.
He was basically spitting in everyone's face and disregarding common social standards and he expected people to take it lightly?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604281</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>shiftless</author>
	<datestamp>1246905360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road. Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, </i></p><p>Just being pedantic, but it actually is illegal in most states to do that. It's just not enforced. But your point is well taken.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do , Just being pedantic , but it actually is illegal in most states to do that .
It 's just not enforced .
But your point is well taken .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, Just being pedantic, but it actually is illegal in most states to do that.
It's just not enforced.
But your point is well taken.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604151</id>
	<title>Not about the rules,  but social reality.</title>
	<author>theNAM666</author>
	<datestamp>1246903800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dr. Myers' interpretations,  as reported here,  seem to me quite a bit naive.</p><p>I am reminded of tales of soldiers in the trenches,  during WWI,  from both sides,  pausing hostilities during Christmas,  to work together briefly,  share food and drink.</p><p>Certainly,  the "rules" were that they should be shooting each other.  Thank G-d-- no social situation works that way.</p><p>Mr. Myers seems to think that the "rules" written by the creators of the system are the "work of God" which everyone should and must follow,  and there is something wrong when they don't.</p><p>So much for fascism.  There is nothing medieval or wrong when actual humans,  acting together in a social situation,  choose to create their own understandings and rules-- and shun someone who ignores this.</p><p>Rather,  there is much to be celebrated.</p><p>Myers-- isn't that an Irish surname?  I would hope for a better analysis of how any why participants rejected his behavior.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dr. Myers ' interpretations , as reported here , seem to me quite a bit naive.I am reminded of tales of soldiers in the trenches , during WWI , from both sides , pausing hostilities during Christmas , to work together briefly , share food and drink.Certainly , the " rules " were that they should be shooting each other .
Thank G-d-- no social situation works that way.Mr .
Myers seems to think that the " rules " written by the creators of the system are the " work of God " which everyone should and must follow , and there is something wrong when they do n't.So much for fascism .
There is nothing medieval or wrong when actual humans , acting together in a social situation , choose to create their own understandings and rules-- and shun someone who ignores this.Rather , there is much to be celebrated.Myers-- is n't that an Irish surname ?
I would hope for a better analysis of how any why participants rejected his behavior .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dr. Myers' interpretations,  as reported here,  seem to me quite a bit naive.I am reminded of tales of soldiers in the trenches,  during WWI,  from both sides,  pausing hostilities during Christmas,  to work together briefly,  share food and drink.Certainly,  the "rules" were that they should be shooting each other.
Thank G-d-- no social situation works that way.Mr.
Myers seems to think that the "rules" written by the creators of the system are the "work of God" which everyone should and must follow,  and there is something wrong when they don't.So much for fascism.
There is nothing medieval or wrong when actual humans,  acting together in a social situation,  choose to create their own understandings and rules-- and shun someone who ignores this.Rather,  there is much to be celebrated.Myers-- isn't that an Irish surname?
I would hope for a better analysis of how any why participants rejected his behavior.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28612359</id>
	<title>Myers = hypocrit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246997820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For all of you who are defending Myers' actions... keep this in mind (as a player who played against him):<br>1- He talked trash ALL THE TIME. He was actually one of the biggest instigator of trash talking in RV (the pvp zone he stayed in the most.)<br>2- The entire point of the zone was NOT intended to kill other players, believe it or not. It was meant to capture 'turrets', which were mini-bases outfitted with high-range, high-damage guns. Once all guns from a NEUTRAL turret-base were destroyed, any hero or villain could take control of it and turn it to their factions. Out of ~7 turret bases in the zone, whichever faction would win the most turrets would 'win' the zone. That's it... that's the whole point of the zone. Killing enemy faction players was actually a secondary effect (if they got in your way of taking turret-bases), not the primary objective.<br>So having Myers state that the point of the zone was to kill enemy players is actually INCORRECT. Ironically, most players were in the zone to kill other players, and therefore THEY were the ones not adhering to the primary intent of the zone.</p><p>Having played the game for 3+ years, and having seen Myers aka Twixt in action on hundreds of occasions, I can definitely tell you that his paper is full of ridiculous assertions and complete fabrications.</p><p>There was another player in the game who had 4+ accounts, so he could have that many characters in-game at once. He would bring a 'killer' character (dominator) and 3+ 'support' (buffers like therms/kins/etc) and a 'vengeance bait' to give himself a particularly powerful buff. He would then be basically unkillable for several minutes, and employ 'exploitative' tactics (like tp in the air + TK, which would have a floating effect, with the target being completely unable to fight back.)<br>Guess what, he was considered an asshole too but we didn't need a paper to justify it.<br>Oh, and the biggest difference, this guy didn't gloat afterwards, like Myers did.</p><p>Like someone astutely stated earlier... Myers was actually the bully, yet he painted himself as the victim.<br>Wow.<br>What a disillusioned douche.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For all of you who are defending Myers ' actions... keep this in mind ( as a player who played against him ) : 1- He talked trash ALL THE TIME .
He was actually one of the biggest instigator of trash talking in RV ( the pvp zone he stayed in the most .
) 2- The entire point of the zone was NOT intended to kill other players , believe it or not .
It was meant to capture 'turrets ' , which were mini-bases outfitted with high-range , high-damage guns .
Once all guns from a NEUTRAL turret-base were destroyed , any hero or villain could take control of it and turn it to their factions .
Out of ~ 7 turret bases in the zone , whichever faction would win the most turrets would 'win ' the zone .
That 's it... that 's the whole point of the zone .
Killing enemy faction players was actually a secondary effect ( if they got in your way of taking turret-bases ) , not the primary objective.So having Myers state that the point of the zone was to kill enemy players is actually INCORRECT .
Ironically , most players were in the zone to kill other players , and therefore THEY were the ones not adhering to the primary intent of the zone.Having played the game for 3 + years , and having seen Myers aka Twixt in action on hundreds of occasions , I can definitely tell you that his paper is full of ridiculous assertions and complete fabrications.There was another player in the game who had 4 + accounts , so he could have that many characters in-game at once .
He would bring a 'killer ' character ( dominator ) and 3 + 'support ' ( buffers like therms/kins/etc ) and a 'vengeance bait ' to give himself a particularly powerful buff .
He would then be basically unkillable for several minutes , and employ 'exploitative ' tactics ( like tp in the air + TK , which would have a floating effect , with the target being completely unable to fight back .
) Guess what , he was considered an asshole too but we did n't need a paper to justify it.Oh , and the biggest difference , this guy did n't gloat afterwards , like Myers did.Like someone astutely stated earlier... Myers was actually the bully , yet he painted himself as the victim.Wow.What a disillusioned douche .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For all of you who are defending Myers' actions... keep this in mind (as a player who played against him):1- He talked trash ALL THE TIME.
He was actually one of the biggest instigator of trash talking in RV (the pvp zone he stayed in the most.
)2- The entire point of the zone was NOT intended to kill other players, believe it or not.
It was meant to capture 'turrets', which were mini-bases outfitted with high-range, high-damage guns.
Once all guns from a NEUTRAL turret-base were destroyed, any hero or villain could take control of it and turn it to their factions.
Out of ~7 turret bases in the zone, whichever faction would win the most turrets would 'win' the zone.
That's it... that's the whole point of the zone.
Killing enemy faction players was actually a secondary effect (if they got in your way of taking turret-bases), not the primary objective.So having Myers state that the point of the zone was to kill enemy players is actually INCORRECT.
Ironically, most players were in the zone to kill other players, and therefore THEY were the ones not adhering to the primary intent of the zone.Having played the game for 3+ years, and having seen Myers aka Twixt in action on hundreds of occasions, I can definitely tell you that his paper is full of ridiculous assertions and complete fabrications.There was another player in the game who had 4+ accounts, so he could have that many characters in-game at once.
He would bring a 'killer' character (dominator) and 3+ 'support' (buffers like therms/kins/etc) and a 'vengeance bait' to give himself a particularly powerful buff.
He would then be basically unkillable for several minutes, and employ 'exploitative' tactics (like tp in the air + TK, which would have a floating effect, with the target being completely unable to fight back.
)Guess what, he was considered an asshole too but we didn't need a paper to justify it.Oh, and the biggest difference, this guy didn't gloat afterwards, like Myers did.Like someone astutely stated earlier... Myers was actually the bully, yet he painted himself as the victim.Wow.What a disillusioned douche.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28673549</id>
	<title>Badvibes258</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247477100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look Society makes the rules, Rules don't necessarily make the society. fact is it is well with in the rules of society to start mowing your lawn at an early hour in the morning. Or to have a vehical with a "Legally allowable" loud engine noise. But your going to tell me that if your neighbor fired up either of these you wouldn't be mad? frankly the whole point of this escapes many of you. This is the guy that at 10 pm fires up his truck and wakes you up after you have pulled a 10 hour shift at work on the 4th day of your week. you live and have no choice in the matter. He is legally allowed by law to have his truck at that noise level. (he had it checked by your DEQ or EPA or what ever you call them) yes he played with in the rules and made people mad. But does that make it right? no. and the Response on the forums isn't much diffrent than real life. I mean heck you might even wonder if a person with no respect for others or consideration for the well being of others you might wonder if he doesn't have a shady past. you might even wander it aloud with someone else. That might not be right but it happens. that is society. And for those saying this is just a GAME? well yes it is only a game. but he is trying to impose real life into the game as if it is an accurate example of online communities. Well to some degree he is right. But only on about 34\% of the over all internet I mean this is the internet if you can think about it, it is probably here. My point is that this guy did play with in the rules of the game even by game standards. however that doesn't mean he didn't disrupt someone elses life. are you going to pass the blame to the guy that happens to live next door to the guy with the noisy truck?! please. facts are "LIFE ISN'T FAIR" Life isn't easy, Death is the only Guarentee in life. Live with it or don't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look Society makes the rules , Rules do n't necessarily make the society .
fact is it is well with in the rules of society to start mowing your lawn at an early hour in the morning .
Or to have a vehical with a " Legally allowable " loud engine noise .
But your going to tell me that if your neighbor fired up either of these you would n't be mad ?
frankly the whole point of this escapes many of you .
This is the guy that at 10 pm fires up his truck and wakes you up after you have pulled a 10 hour shift at work on the 4th day of your week .
you live and have no choice in the matter .
He is legally allowed by law to have his truck at that noise level .
( he had it checked by your DEQ or EPA or what ever you call them ) yes he played with in the rules and made people mad .
But does that make it right ?
no. and the Response on the forums is n't much diffrent than real life .
I mean heck you might even wonder if a person with no respect for others or consideration for the well being of others you might wonder if he does n't have a shady past .
you might even wander it aloud with someone else .
That might not be right but it happens .
that is society .
And for those saying this is just a GAME ?
well yes it is only a game .
but he is trying to impose real life into the game as if it is an accurate example of online communities .
Well to some degree he is right .
But only on about 34 \ % of the over all internet I mean this is the internet if you can think about it , it is probably here .
My point is that this guy did play with in the rules of the game even by game standards .
however that does n't mean he did n't disrupt someone elses life .
are you going to pass the blame to the guy that happens to live next door to the guy with the noisy truck ? !
please. facts are " LIFE IS N'T FAIR " Life is n't easy , Death is the only Guarentee in life .
Live with it or do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look Society makes the rules, Rules don't necessarily make the society.
fact is it is well with in the rules of society to start mowing your lawn at an early hour in the morning.
Or to have a vehical with a "Legally allowable" loud engine noise.
But your going to tell me that if your neighbor fired up either of these you wouldn't be mad?
frankly the whole point of this escapes many of you.
This is the guy that at 10 pm fires up his truck and wakes you up after you have pulled a 10 hour shift at work on the 4th day of your week.
you live and have no choice in the matter.
He is legally allowed by law to have his truck at that noise level.
(he had it checked by your DEQ or EPA or what ever you call them) yes he played with in the rules and made people mad.
But does that make it right?
no. and the Response on the forums isn't much diffrent than real life.
I mean heck you might even wonder if a person with no respect for others or consideration for the well being of others you might wonder if he doesn't have a shady past.
you might even wander it aloud with someone else.
That might not be right but it happens.
that is society.
And for those saying this is just a GAME?
well yes it is only a game.
but he is trying to impose real life into the game as if it is an accurate example of online communities.
Well to some degree he is right.
But only on about 34\% of the over all internet I mean this is the internet if you can think about it, it is probably here.
My point is that this guy did play with in the rules of the game even by game standards.
however that doesn't mean he didn't disrupt someone elses life.
are you going to pass the blame to the guy that happens to live next door to the guy with the noisy truck?!
please. facts are "LIFE ISN'T FAIR" Life isn't easy, Death is the only Guarentee in life.
Live with it or don't.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603767</id>
	<title>Re:Full Court Press</title>
	<author>coaxial</author>
	<datestamp>1246899360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There was an article about this very thing.  Indian immigrant basketball coach <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa\_fact\_gladwell?printable=true" title="newyorker.com" rel="nofollow">pressed on ever turn over</a> [newyorker.com].<br>The outcome?  He's much less talented team won -- again and again -- while simultaneously pissing off the opposing coaches.</p><p>As for why this tactic isn't used at the elite levels <a href="http://rushthecourt.net/2009/05/05/gladwells-theory-on-full-court-pressure-is-the-only-outlier-here/" title="rushthecourt.net" rel="nofollow">here's one theory</a> [rushthecourt.net].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There was an article about this very thing .
Indian immigrant basketball coach pressed on ever turn over [ newyorker.com ] .The outcome ?
He 's much less talented team won -- again and again -- while simultaneously pissing off the opposing coaches.As for why this tactic is n't used at the elite levels here 's one theory [ rushthecourt.net ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There was an article about this very thing.
Indian immigrant basketball coach pressed on ever turn over [newyorker.com].The outcome?
He's much less talented team won -- again and again -- while simultaneously pissing off the opposing coaches.As for why this tactic isn't used at the elite levels here's one theory [rushthecourt.net].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600619</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28628557</id>
	<title>He's Griefing!!!</title>
	<author>Tunnel Snakes</author>
	<datestamp>1247048580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>hahahahahHAHAH look at you obsessive COH/V players ineffectually trying to impugn a professor 100x smarter than all of you combined because you couldn't handle a troll. look how stupid you look finding fault with his methodology because it was """mean""" not because it was wrong in any way (it wasn't).</htmltext>
<tokenext>hahahahahHAHAH look at you obsessive COH/V players ineffectually trying to impugn a professor 100x smarter than all of you combined because you could n't handle a troll .
look how stupid you look finding fault with his methodology because it was " " " mean " " " not because it was wrong in any way ( it was n't ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hahahahahHAHAH look at you obsessive COH/V players ineffectually trying to impugn a professor 100x smarter than all of you combined because you couldn't handle a troll.
look how stupid you look finding fault with his methodology because it was """mean""" not because it was wrong in any way (it wasn't).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602573</id>
	<title>Fire the developers!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246890300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The real issue here isn't that he violating the world's customs, the real problem here is the fact that he able to exploit in that way. The incompotence of game developers these days is astounding. CoH/V and its like deserve their ignomity and failure due to the reluctance of their developers to fix bugs like these.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The real issue here is n't that he violating the world 's customs , the real problem here is the fact that he able to exploit in that way .
The incompotence of game developers these days is astounding .
CoH/V and its like deserve their ignomity and failure due to the reluctance of their developers to fix bugs like these .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real issue here isn't that he violating the world's customs, the real problem here is the fact that he able to exploit in that way.
The incompotence of game developers these days is astounding.
CoH/V and its like deserve their ignomity and failure due to the reluctance of their developers to fix bugs like these.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603035</id>
	<title>funny</title>
	<author>HomelessInLaJolla</author>
	<datestamp>1246894200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have no idea what this story is about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have no idea what this story is about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have no idea what this story is about.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603373</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246896420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just love it when people comment about games they've never played. I haven't played much of the Star Wars games. (ducks) My daughter has, though.  So I won't comment on them.  I have been a COH/COV player for the last 3 years.  Nobody is clogging the servers with death matches.  Its actually quite the opposite.  Most COH/COV PVP zones are usually dead the majority of the time, no matter which server you are on.  The Arenas are the only PVP areas where you can fight with unlocked Gladiators, which are normally members of enemy factions you've defeated. In battle, you still have to control them, like they are pets.  <br> <br>
Aside from the Arenas that are in a few zones and Pocket D (Dance Club), there are 4 actual PVP Zones:
<br>
<br> <b>Bloody Bay</b> (Heroes Vs. Villians; available at 15; automatically leveled to 25)
<br> <b>Sirens Call</b> (Heroes Vs. Villians; available at 20; automatically leveled to 30)
<br> <b>Warburg</b> (Heroes Vs Heroes and/or Villians Vs Villians; available at 30; you are leveled to 38)
<br> <b>Recluse's Victory</b> (Heroes Vs. Villians; available at 40; you are leveled to 50)
<br> <br>
I've pvp'd in all of these zones, but I spend the majority of my time in Recluse's Victory (RV).
<br>
Upon entering the zone, you acknowledge that other players are going to try and kill you.  That said, there are areas in the zone or activities that players may be doing that most pvpers will leave you alone. Mostly.
<br> <br>
Basically the PVP etiquette goes like this:<br>
1) Under the statue of Atlas, there is a large platform. Its common knowledge that people standing there are looking to duel another player.  Not to get ganked by several other pvpers.  Newbies usually don't know this, but then again most newbies haven't built up their toon for real PVP and will usually die if they attack the wrong person.<br> <br>
2) Its bad etiquette to attack the winner of a duel... (Unless you really hate them, and you have numbers, then its OK, lol!)<br> <br>
3) If you are anywhere else other than under the statue, you are fair game.<br> <br>
4) Farming: RV is great for getting recipe drops for crafted Invented Origin or IO sets.  You can either use these to enhance your build or you can sell at the auction house for profit in the game.  The currency is called "influence".  A farmer generally is either taking out loads of Arachnos, Long-Bow agents, and/or Pillbox Pop-up Cannons. And they'll usually have a "Heavy" with them, which is either basically a large 2 legged tank robot or a spider.  Only real assholes mess with these people... but then again its PVP... just don't go crying when they actually kick your toon's ass. <br> <br>
5) PVP Rating: If you are solo and get a kill, you get 1 point added to your rating. That number ticks down by<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.2 for every real hour you haven't received a kill. You get badges for PVP ratings of 20, 100, and 400. Once you kill someone in the zone there is a 10 minute cool-off period before you get credit for killing them again.  This was meant to curb kill farming... So if a particular person is killing you anyway, they are just being an ass.<br> <br>
6) You can form either Hero or Villains teams, this is the preferred mode of survival in the zone until you've really built a strong tune.  It is generally considered lame to have a Heavy involved in the team.<br> <br>
7) Cursing is generally frowned upon, especially by the Heroes (hey we're the good guys). And you can usually spot the pimple-faced 13 yo who just got pwned.<br> <br>
In the game I've found that most people chatting usually are in the PVE zones, usually in Atlas Park under Atlas. As far as chatting too much in these zones... well people aren't always Heroes or Villians.  Its encouraged in the game to develop both types of toons.  So friendships are bound to happen between so-called Heroes and Villians.  Others just like to compare build types, so they can make theirs better.  Besides, its probably cheaper to chat in-game than paying for another unlimited texting plan.<br>
<br> <br> <br>
Global: @phreakincool</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just love it when people comment about games they 've never played .
I have n't played much of the Star Wars games .
( ducks ) My daughter has , though .
So I wo n't comment on them .
I have been a COH/COV player for the last 3 years .
Nobody is clogging the servers with death matches .
Its actually quite the opposite .
Most COH/COV PVP zones are usually dead the majority of the time , no matter which server you are on .
The Arenas are the only PVP areas where you can fight with unlocked Gladiators , which are normally members of enemy factions you 've defeated .
In battle , you still have to control them , like they are pets .
Aside from the Arenas that are in a few zones and Pocket D ( Dance Club ) , there are 4 actual PVP Zones : Bloody Bay ( Heroes Vs. Villians ; available at 15 ; automatically leveled to 25 ) Sirens Call ( Heroes Vs. Villians ; available at 20 ; automatically leveled to 30 ) Warburg ( Heroes Vs Heroes and/or Villians Vs Villians ; available at 30 ; you are leveled to 38 ) Recluse 's Victory ( Heroes Vs. Villians ; available at 40 ; you are leveled to 50 ) I 've pvp 'd in all of these zones , but I spend the majority of my time in Recluse 's Victory ( RV ) .
Upon entering the zone , you acknowledge that other players are going to try and kill you .
That said , there are areas in the zone or activities that players may be doing that most pvpers will leave you alone .
Mostly . Basically the PVP etiquette goes like this : 1 ) Under the statue of Atlas , there is a large platform .
Its common knowledge that people standing there are looking to duel another player .
Not to get ganked by several other pvpers .
Newbies usually do n't know this , but then again most newbies have n't built up their toon for real PVP and will usually die if they attack the wrong person .
2 ) Its bad etiquette to attack the winner of a duel... ( Unless you really hate them , and you have numbers , then its OK , lol !
) 3 ) If you are anywhere else other than under the statue , you are fair game .
4 ) Farming : RV is great for getting recipe drops for crafted Invented Origin or IO sets .
You can either use these to enhance your build or you can sell at the auction house for profit in the game .
The currency is called " influence " .
A farmer generally is either taking out loads of Arachnos , Long-Bow agents , and/or Pillbox Pop-up Cannons .
And they 'll usually have a " Heavy " with them , which is either basically a large 2 legged tank robot or a spider .
Only real assholes mess with these people... but then again its PVP... just do n't go crying when they actually kick your toon 's ass .
5 ) PVP Rating : If you are solo and get a kill , you get 1 point added to your rating .
That number ticks down by .2 for every real hour you have n't received a kill .
You get badges for PVP ratings of 20 , 100 , and 400 .
Once you kill someone in the zone there is a 10 minute cool-off period before you get credit for killing them again .
This was meant to curb kill farming... So if a particular person is killing you anyway , they are just being an ass .
6 ) You can form either Hero or Villains teams , this is the preferred mode of survival in the zone until you 've really built a strong tune .
It is generally considered lame to have a Heavy involved in the team .
7 ) Cursing is generally frowned upon , especially by the Heroes ( hey we 're the good guys ) .
And you can usually spot the pimple-faced 13 yo who just got pwned .
In the game I 've found that most people chatting usually are in the PVE zones , usually in Atlas Park under Atlas .
As far as chatting too much in these zones... well people are n't always Heroes or Villians .
Its encouraged in the game to develop both types of toons .
So friendships are bound to happen between so-called Heroes and Villians .
Others just like to compare build types , so they can make theirs better .
Besides , its probably cheaper to chat in-game than paying for another unlimited texting plan .
Global : @ phreakincool</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just love it when people comment about games they've never played.
I haven't played much of the Star Wars games.
(ducks) My daughter has, though.
So I won't comment on them.
I have been a COH/COV player for the last 3 years.
Nobody is clogging the servers with death matches.
Its actually quite the opposite.
Most COH/COV PVP zones are usually dead the majority of the time, no matter which server you are on.
The Arenas are the only PVP areas where you can fight with unlocked Gladiators, which are normally members of enemy factions you've defeated.
In battle, you still have to control them, like they are pets.
Aside from the Arenas that are in a few zones and Pocket D (Dance Club), there are 4 actual PVP Zones:

 Bloody Bay (Heroes Vs. Villians; available at 15; automatically leveled to 25)
 Sirens Call (Heroes Vs. Villians; available at 20; automatically leveled to 30)
 Warburg (Heroes Vs Heroes and/or Villians Vs Villians; available at 30; you are leveled to 38)
 Recluse's Victory (Heroes Vs. Villians; available at 40; you are leveled to 50)
 
I've pvp'd in all of these zones, but I spend the majority of my time in Recluse's Victory (RV).
Upon entering the zone, you acknowledge that other players are going to try and kill you.
That said, there are areas in the zone or activities that players may be doing that most pvpers will leave you alone.
Mostly.
 
Basically the PVP etiquette goes like this:
1) Under the statue of Atlas, there is a large platform.
Its common knowledge that people standing there are looking to duel another player.
Not to get ganked by several other pvpers.
Newbies usually don't know this, but then again most newbies haven't built up their toon for real PVP and will usually die if they attack the wrong person.
2) Its bad etiquette to attack the winner of a duel... (Unless you really hate them, and you have numbers, then its OK, lol!
) 
3) If you are anywhere else other than under the statue, you are fair game.
4) Farming: RV is great for getting recipe drops for crafted Invented Origin or IO sets.
You can either use these to enhance your build or you can sell at the auction house for profit in the game.
The currency is called "influence".
A farmer generally is either taking out loads of Arachnos, Long-Bow agents, and/or Pillbox Pop-up Cannons.
And they'll usually have a "Heavy" with them, which is either basically a large 2 legged tank robot or a spider.
Only real assholes mess with these people... but then again its PVP... just don't go crying when they actually kick your toon's ass.
5) PVP Rating: If you are solo and get a kill, you get 1 point added to your rating.
That number ticks down by .2 for every real hour you haven't received a kill.
You get badges for PVP ratings of 20, 100, and 400.
Once you kill someone in the zone there is a 10 minute cool-off period before you get credit for killing them again.
This was meant to curb kill farming... So if a particular person is killing you anyway, they are just being an ass.
6) You can form either Hero or Villains teams, this is the preferred mode of survival in the zone until you've really built a strong tune.
It is generally considered lame to have a Heavy involved in the team.
7) Cursing is generally frowned upon, especially by the Heroes (hey we're the good guys).
And you can usually spot the pimple-faced 13 yo who just got pwned.
In the game I've found that most people chatting usually are in the PVE zones, usually in Atlas Park under Atlas.
As far as chatting too much in these zones... well people aren't always Heroes or Villians.
Its encouraged in the game to develop both types of toons.
So friendships are bound to happen between so-called Heroes and Villians.
Others just like to compare build types, so they can make theirs better.
Besides, its probably cheaper to chat in-game than paying for another unlimited texting plan.
Global: @phreakincool</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601171</id>
	<title>Quick!</title>
	<author>Xaoswolf</author>
	<datestamp>1246882080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Someone get the Sword of a Thousand Truths!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Someone get the Sword of a Thousand Truths !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Someone get the Sword of a Thousand Truths!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603933</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>celtic\_hackr</author>
	<datestamp>1246900980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Basically, he played the game (actually fighting villains) and was hated for it. Not because he was being vile or crude (indeed, completely contrary to what you suggest) but by violating game defeating "customs." Why the hell have a city full of heroes and villains, if the villains and heroes just idly chat and don't actually fight each other?</p></div><p>Because people actually <em>like</em> it that way?  I mean, who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force?</p><p>Why do you say that going around beating up villains is actually "playing the game" and the people standing around and chatting aren't?  Who gets to say what the game actually is?  The developers or the people who play it?</p><p>In the real world, the people who make the laws of our society are our society's "developers," but the people who actually live in the world, or the "players," often set up unwritten rules.  Just because the law says that something is okay, doesn't mean that it really is.</p><p>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.  Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.</p></div><p>Thank God you don't have a license to drive. Because you don't even know the rules to break them. No it's not legal to drive 45 MPH in the "passing lane". In fact it's not even really legal to "drive" in the passing lane. The right lane is for driving, and the left lane is for passing. If, you're in the left lane you're supposed to be passing. You could actually get a ticket for driving in the left lane, regardless of speed, but most people probably aren't even aware of that. Of course, then there are highways with more than two lanes in either direction. In which case every lane is a driving lane, except for the left lane. Unless of course the left lane is for high occupancy vehicles, then the next to left lane is the passing lane. If you want to be totally accuratre with regards to the law.
<br> <br>
And yes, it is the developers who make the laws/rules of the game. Which is just like in the real world, there are people who live by the laws and there are people who totally ignore the laws, and there are those who live by the laws that are socially acceptable to the portion of society they mingle with. Sometimes, the various factions interact with each other, such as the person driving 55 in a 55 in the driving lane, even when the flow is 60mph, and the maniac doing 90mph in the passing lane.
<br> <br>
I see nothing wrong with what the professor did. So he's a sociopath. Welcome to the world of geeks and nerds. Einstein was kind of sociopathic too. As well as my favorite, Tesla. That guy was pretty whacked, but brilliant.<br>
So, a guy comes along and plays by the rules and is unkillable because no one can defeat him. Sounds like the players aren't all that good. Which is maybe why they developed their own rules. because the game was tooo haaard. Wah.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Basically , he played the game ( actually fighting villains ) and was hated for it .
Not because he was being vile or crude ( indeed , completely contrary to what you suggest ) but by violating game defeating " customs .
" Why the hell have a city full of heroes and villains , if the villains and heroes just idly chat and do n't actually fight each other ? Because people actually like it that way ?
I mean , who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force ? Why do you say that going around beating up villains is actually " playing the game " and the people standing around and chatting are n't ?
Who gets to say what the game actually is ?
The developers or the people who play it ? In the real world , the people who make the laws of our society are our society 's " developers , " but the people who actually live in the world , or the " players , " often set up unwritten rules .
Just because the law says that something is okay , does n't mean that it really is.It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do , but most people do n't , and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that should n't be there.Thank God you do n't have a license to drive .
Because you do n't even know the rules to break them .
No it 's not legal to drive 45 MPH in the " passing lane " .
In fact it 's not even really legal to " drive " in the passing lane .
The right lane is for driving , and the left lane is for passing .
If , you 're in the left lane you 're supposed to be passing .
You could actually get a ticket for driving in the left lane , regardless of speed , but most people probably are n't even aware of that .
Of course , then there are highways with more than two lanes in either direction .
In which case every lane is a driving lane , except for the left lane .
Unless of course the left lane is for high occupancy vehicles , then the next to left lane is the passing lane .
If you want to be totally accuratre with regards to the law .
And yes , it is the developers who make the laws/rules of the game .
Which is just like in the real world , there are people who live by the laws and there are people who totally ignore the laws , and there are those who live by the laws that are socially acceptable to the portion of society they mingle with .
Sometimes , the various factions interact with each other , such as the person driving 55 in a 55 in the driving lane , even when the flow is 60mph , and the maniac doing 90mph in the passing lane .
I see nothing wrong with what the professor did .
So he 's a sociopath .
Welcome to the world of geeks and nerds .
Einstein was kind of sociopathic too .
As well as my favorite , Tesla .
That guy was pretty whacked , but brilliant .
So , a guy comes along and plays by the rules and is unkillable because no one can defeat him .
Sounds like the players are n't all that good .
Which is maybe why they developed their own rules .
because the game was tooo haaard .
Wah .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basically, he played the game (actually fighting villains) and was hated for it.
Not because he was being vile or crude (indeed, completely contrary to what you suggest) but by violating game defeating "customs.
" Why the hell have a city full of heroes and villains, if the villains and heroes just idly chat and don't actually fight each other?Because people actually like it that way?
I mean, who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force?Why do you say that going around beating up villains is actually "playing the game" and the people standing around and chatting aren't?
Who gets to say what the game actually is?
The developers or the people who play it?In the real world, the people who make the laws of our society are our society's "developers," but the people who actually live in the world, or the "players," often set up unwritten rules.
Just because the law says that something is okay, doesn't mean that it really is.It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.Thank God you don't have a license to drive.
Because you don't even know the rules to break them.
No it's not legal to drive 45 MPH in the "passing lane".
In fact it's not even really legal to "drive" in the passing lane.
The right lane is for driving, and the left lane is for passing.
If, you're in the left lane you're supposed to be passing.
You could actually get a ticket for driving in the left lane, regardless of speed, but most people probably aren't even aware of that.
Of course, then there are highways with more than two lanes in either direction.
In which case every lane is a driving lane, except for the left lane.
Unless of course the left lane is for high occupancy vehicles, then the next to left lane is the passing lane.
If you want to be totally accuratre with regards to the law.
And yes, it is the developers who make the laws/rules of the game.
Which is just like in the real world, there are people who live by the laws and there are people who totally ignore the laws, and there are those who live by the laws that are socially acceptable to the portion of society they mingle with.
Sometimes, the various factions interact with each other, such as the person driving 55 in a 55 in the driving lane, even when the flow is 60mph, and the maniac doing 90mph in the passing lane.
I see nothing wrong with what the professor did.
So he's a sociopath.
Welcome to the world of geeks and nerds.
Einstein was kind of sociopathic too.
As well as my favorite, Tesla.
That guy was pretty whacked, but brilliant.
So, a guy comes along and plays by the rules and is unkillable because no one can defeat him.
Sounds like the players aren't all that good.
Which is maybe why they developed their own rules.
because the game was tooo haaard.
Wah.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600909</id>
	<title>Re:Not trolling</title>
	<author>Chyeld</author>
	<datestamp>1246880700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having not played COH, I can't say this is true, but I would imagine part of the problem was that at the time the only location heros and villians could get together was this arena.</p><p>Additionally, it's one thing to 'just be playing the way the game was meant to be' and another to be directly informed that the person on the other side of the screen didn't want to play with you and yet you still screw with them.</p><p>Especially if those people have no chance at fighting back, which the article quite heavily implies.</p><p>All in all, the prof sounds like a toad, I have a hard time believing that he didn't understand why people were pissed off and that it wasn't about 'customs' but about 'consent'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having not played COH , I ca n't say this is true , but I would imagine part of the problem was that at the time the only location heros and villians could get together was this arena.Additionally , it 's one thing to 'just be playing the way the game was meant to be ' and another to be directly informed that the person on the other side of the screen did n't want to play with you and yet you still screw with them.Especially if those people have no chance at fighting back , which the article quite heavily implies.All in all , the prof sounds like a toad , I have a hard time believing that he did n't understand why people were pissed off and that it was n't about 'customs ' but about 'consent' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having not played COH, I can't say this is true, but I would imagine part of the problem was that at the time the only location heros and villians could get together was this arena.Additionally, it's one thing to 'just be playing the way the game was meant to be' and another to be directly informed that the person on the other side of the screen didn't want to play with you and yet you still screw with them.Especially if those people have no chance at fighting back, which the article quite heavily implies.All in all, the prof sounds like a toad, I have a hard time believing that he didn't understand why people were pissed off and that it wasn't about 'customs' but about 'consent'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602803</id>
	<title>Stay tuned</title>
	<author>Minwee</author>
	<datestamp>1246892400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Next week, Myers will head out onto the highway where he will scrupulously drive at exactly 35 mph in the left lane for the entire trip.
</p><p>"I don't understand why these other drivers don't like that.  I'm going under the speed limit, so it's all legal.", he was quoted as saying shortly before being swallowed up by the angry mob.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Next week , Myers will head out onto the highway where he will scrupulously drive at exactly 35 mph in the left lane for the entire trip .
" I do n't understand why these other drivers do n't like that .
I 'm going under the speed limit , so it 's all legal .
" , he was quoted as saying shortly before being swallowed up by the angry mob .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Next week, Myers will head out onto the highway where he will scrupulously drive at exactly 35 mph in the left lane for the entire trip.
"I don't understand why these other drivers don't like that.
I'm going under the speed limit, so it's all legal.
", he was quoted as saying shortly before being swallowed up by the angry mob.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602661</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246891320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree 100\%. I played CoH just for a short time, but just the description of his "victories" is enough to piss me off. Typical griefer. I also find it funny how he makes it in article that he is some kind of undefeated champion of the game facing hordes of other players and defeating them handily. Just a clue: if you can create a character with teleport abilities so can anyone else. I would really like to see some videos of his gameplay and then we can all judge for our selves what are his game skills.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree 100 \ % .
I played CoH just for a short time , but just the description of his " victories " is enough to piss me off .
Typical griefer .
I also find it funny how he makes it in article that he is some kind of undefeated champion of the game facing hordes of other players and defeating them handily .
Just a clue : if you can create a character with teleport abilities so can anyone else .
I would really like to see some videos of his gameplay and then we can all judge for our selves what are his game skills .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree 100\%.
I played CoH just for a short time, but just the description of his "victories" is enough to piss me off.
Typical griefer.
I also find it funny how he makes it in article that he is some kind of undefeated champion of the game facing hordes of other players and defeating them handily.
Just a clue: if you can create a character with teleport abilities so can anyone else.
I would really like to see some videos of his gameplay and then we can all judge for our selves what are his game skills.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602045</id>
	<title>They're scrubs...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246886820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>David Sirlin wrote about this a few years back, and estimated that over 99\% of all people were scrubs. It seems he was right.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html" title="sirlin.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html</a> [sirlin.net]</htmltext>
<tokenext>David Sirlin wrote about this a few years back , and estimated that over 99 \ % of all people were scrubs .
It seems he was right .
http : //www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html [ sirlin.net ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>David Sirlin wrote about this a few years back, and estimated that over 99\% of all people were scrubs.
It seems he was right.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html [sirlin.net]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602267</id>
	<title>How'd he get past the IRB?</title>
	<author>izomiac</author>
	<datestamp>1246888080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm kinda curious as to how he got this past his IRB...  I mean, it's human subject's research without informed consent and he basically makes a point of continually irritating people without significant benefit to them.  That doesn't seem like something any respectable ethics committee would allow.  Perhaps that's who the upset players should have complained to...  That is if the researcher identified himself and his purpose to them after collecting his data.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm kinda curious as to how he got this past his IRB... I mean , it 's human subject 's research without informed consent and he basically makes a point of continually irritating people without significant benefit to them .
That does n't seem like something any respectable ethics committee would allow .
Perhaps that 's who the upset players should have complained to... That is if the researcher identified himself and his purpose to them after collecting his data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm kinda curious as to how he got this past his IRB...  I mean, it's human subject's research without informed consent and he basically makes a point of continually irritating people without significant benefit to them.
That doesn't seem like something any respectable ethics committee would allow.
Perhaps that's who the upset players should have complained to...  That is if the researcher identified himself and his purpose to them after collecting his data.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602137</id>
	<title>see what you're missing in academia...</title>
	<author>Goldsmith</author>
	<datestamp>1246887360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Were I faculty at Loyola, I would find the IRB members who approved this and give them a very hard time, as this is not the kind of research I would want to be associated with.  If he has done this without IRB support, I would ask that he be removed from the faculty.</p><p>I would point to his academic themed blog (linked to in the article), where he seems to go out of his way to belittle and further antagonize the non-academics who are complaining (he had a separate blog "in character" for his research, this is his "serious academic" blog).  His response to an inquiry about the ethics of what he has done is to link to a discussion of similar researchers who seem to reach a conclusion that the ethics in MMO social research are complicated and suggests that transparency and respect of the other players is the best policy (in other words, he links to a blog that suggests he has acted unethically).  That he is acting "in character" in his academic blog after the conclusion of the research and is not adhering to the "normal" research conduct of his field is, to me, totally unacceptable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Were I faculty at Loyola , I would find the IRB members who approved this and give them a very hard time , as this is not the kind of research I would want to be associated with .
If he has done this without IRB support , I would ask that he be removed from the faculty.I would point to his academic themed blog ( linked to in the article ) , where he seems to go out of his way to belittle and further antagonize the non-academics who are complaining ( he had a separate blog " in character " for his research , this is his " serious academic " blog ) .
His response to an inquiry about the ethics of what he has done is to link to a discussion of similar researchers who seem to reach a conclusion that the ethics in MMO social research are complicated and suggests that transparency and respect of the other players is the best policy ( in other words , he links to a blog that suggests he has acted unethically ) .
That he is acting " in character " in his academic blog after the conclusion of the research and is not adhering to the " normal " research conduct of his field is , to me , totally unacceptable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Were I faculty at Loyola, I would find the IRB members who approved this and give them a very hard time, as this is not the kind of research I would want to be associated with.
If he has done this without IRB support, I would ask that he be removed from the faculty.I would point to his academic themed blog (linked to in the article), where he seems to go out of his way to belittle and further antagonize the non-academics who are complaining (he had a separate blog "in character" for his research, this is his "serious academic" blog).
His response to an inquiry about the ethics of what he has done is to link to a discussion of similar researchers who seem to reach a conclusion that the ethics in MMO social research are complicated and suggests that transparency and respect of the other players is the best policy (in other words, he links to a blog that suggests he has acted unethically).
That he is acting "in character" in his academic blog after the conclusion of the research and is not adhering to the "normal" research conduct of his field is, to me, totally unacceptable.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601933</id>
	<title>Re:Griefer is reviled</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246886160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There is no such "polite agreement" between Ally and Horde in WoW.  How did one get established in CoH/V?</p></div><p>The forced, contrived "language barrier" between the two factions in WoW might have something to do with it.  I always thought the way it was presented was ridiculous, but it makes sense from a game design standpoint.  If the gameplay is supposed to be "fight the other faction", you don't need to have social pressures getting in the way of that.  That, and if your enemies can't talk with you or your social peers, it'll stop a lot of the abuse and unpretty language that might otherwise result.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no such " polite agreement " between Ally and Horde in WoW .
How did one get established in CoH/V ? The forced , contrived " language barrier " between the two factions in WoW might have something to do with it .
I always thought the way it was presented was ridiculous , but it makes sense from a game design standpoint .
If the gameplay is supposed to be " fight the other faction " , you do n't need to have social pressures getting in the way of that .
That , and if your enemies ca n't talk with you or your social peers , it 'll stop a lot of the abuse and unpretty language that might otherwise result .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no such "polite agreement" between Ally and Horde in WoW.
How did one get established in CoH/V?The forced, contrived "language barrier" between the two factions in WoW might have something to do with it.
I always thought the way it was presented was ridiculous, but it makes sense from a game design standpoint.
If the gameplay is supposed to be "fight the other faction", you don't need to have social pressures getting in the way of that.
That, and if your enemies can't talk with you or your social peers, it'll stop a lot of the abuse and unpretty language that might otherwise result.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601257</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28615845</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246970520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It sounds like this "professor" really never learned the details about what he's playing.</p><p>In this particular game, player vs. player combat is for the most part consensual. The speed of travel in the game is so fast that the only way to kill someone is for them to be willing to slow down and have a fight to the death. The developers go to greath lengths to minimize the ways in which one player can interfere with other players.</p><p>Being killed by a player has no penalty in a PvP zone, you're just sent back to the entrance of the zone. However, the computer controlled "cartoon" enemies in the zone will inflict an experience loss(known as "debt") on the players that die by their hand, and this loss takes a considerable amount of time to mitigate. There are players in this zone who are there to defeat the enemies because they give increased experience, they aren't there to fight or interact with enemy players in any way and are left alone instead.</p><p>There's no benefit to winning by dropping the enemy into the computer controlled enemies, since the computer takes the credit for killing him. So essentially, he is disrupting the gameplay of the other players, inflicting a loss of time, and for no personal gain aside from schadenfreude. A classic troll.</p><p>He's not bucking social norms, he's being a sociopath as far the game world allows. The results are not suprising, interesting, or even insightful. If he wanted to buck social norms, he should play a healer character who focuses only on his weak offensive abilities. That's the game-equivalent of being a social outcast. He's going for the game-equivalent of Charles Manson.</p></div><p>That was my impression as I read the whole article, even without knowing the game. What does he expect, he is disturbing the gameplay. I cannot believe this is taken serious...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds like this " professor " really never learned the details about what he 's playing.In this particular game , player vs. player combat is for the most part consensual .
The speed of travel in the game is so fast that the only way to kill someone is for them to be willing to slow down and have a fight to the death .
The developers go to greath lengths to minimize the ways in which one player can interfere with other players.Being killed by a player has no penalty in a PvP zone , you 're just sent back to the entrance of the zone .
However , the computer controlled " cartoon " enemies in the zone will inflict an experience loss ( known as " debt " ) on the players that die by their hand , and this loss takes a considerable amount of time to mitigate .
There are players in this zone who are there to defeat the enemies because they give increased experience , they are n't there to fight or interact with enemy players in any way and are left alone instead.There 's no benefit to winning by dropping the enemy into the computer controlled enemies , since the computer takes the credit for killing him .
So essentially , he is disrupting the gameplay of the other players , inflicting a loss of time , and for no personal gain aside from schadenfreude .
A classic troll.He 's not bucking social norms , he 's being a sociopath as far the game world allows .
The results are not suprising , interesting , or even insightful .
If he wanted to buck social norms , he should play a healer character who focuses only on his weak offensive abilities .
That 's the game-equivalent of being a social outcast .
He 's going for the game-equivalent of Charles Manson.That was my impression as I read the whole article , even without knowing the game .
What does he expect , he is disturbing the gameplay .
I can not believe this is taken serious.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds like this "professor" really never learned the details about what he's playing.In this particular game, player vs. player combat is for the most part consensual.
The speed of travel in the game is so fast that the only way to kill someone is for them to be willing to slow down and have a fight to the death.
The developers go to greath lengths to minimize the ways in which one player can interfere with other players.Being killed by a player has no penalty in a PvP zone, you're just sent back to the entrance of the zone.
However, the computer controlled "cartoon" enemies in the zone will inflict an experience loss(known as "debt") on the players that die by their hand, and this loss takes a considerable amount of time to mitigate.
There are players in this zone who are there to defeat the enemies because they give increased experience, they aren't there to fight or interact with enemy players in any way and are left alone instead.There's no benefit to winning by dropping the enemy into the computer controlled enemies, since the computer takes the credit for killing him.
So essentially, he is disrupting the gameplay of the other players, inflicting a loss of time, and for no personal gain aside from schadenfreude.
A classic troll.He's not bucking social norms, he's being a sociopath as far the game world allows.
The results are not suprising, interesting, or even insightful.
If he wanted to buck social norms, he should play a healer character who focuses only on his weak offensive abilities.
That's the game-equivalent of being a social outcast.
He's going for the game-equivalent of Charles Manson.That was my impression as I read the whole article, even without knowing the game.
What does he expect, he is disturbing the gameplay.
I cannot believe this is taken serious...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603077</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>pbaer</author>
	<datestamp>1246894500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh man I loved that game. Force choking people into pits, kicking people off ledges, pushing/pulling jumping people to their death, what a blast!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh man I loved that game .
Force choking people into pits , kicking people off ledges , pushing/pulling jumping people to their death , what a blast !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh man I loved that game.
Force choking people into pits, kicking people off ledges, pushing/pulling jumping people to their death, what a blast!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600883</id>
	<title>Re:Technically not trolling.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246880580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, not trolling, griefing. He was playing within the bounds of the game's design, but outside the bounds of the expectation of the other players. Load TF2 and go to an achievement farming server and start killing everyone as pyro. You'll get much the same reaction. It's also just about as hilarious.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , not trolling , griefing .
He was playing within the bounds of the game 's design , but outside the bounds of the expectation of the other players .
Load TF2 and go to an achievement farming server and start killing everyone as pyro .
You 'll get much the same reaction .
It 's also just about as hilarious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, not trolling, griefing.
He was playing within the bounds of the game's design, but outside the bounds of the expectation of the other players.
Load TF2 and go to an achievement farming server and start killing everyone as pyro.
You'll get much the same reaction.
It's also just about as hilarious.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600607</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605265</id>
	<title>We need a good car analogy!</title>
	<author>nog\_lorp</author>
	<datestamp>1246961340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see a ton of analogies here, but none about cars! WTF?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see a ton of analogies here , but none about cars !
WTF ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see a ton of analogies here, but none about cars!
WTF?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600975</id>
	<title>Re:Technically not trolling.</title>
	<author>interkin3tic</author>
	<datestamp>1246881120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you read the article</p></div><p>Well that's a different style from usual<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. posting.  So it's technically not trolling, but still, reading the article?  I have half a mind to teleport you in front of a robot firing squad.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you read the articleWell that 's a different style from usual / .
posting. So it 's technically not trolling , but still , reading the article ?
I have half a mind to teleport you in front of a robot firing squad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you read the articleWell that's a different style from usual /.
posting.  So it's technically not trolling, but still, reading the article?
I have half a mind to teleport you in front of a robot firing squad.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600607</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601623</id>
	<title>Re:This reveals a problem in the game's rules...</title>
	<author>Anonymous Cowpat</author>
	<datestamp>1246884600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>another example: Bodyline in cricket. This is particularly relevant because the players ruining the game soon found that it could have consequences outside the game, when a full-scale diplomatic spat was started over the practice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>another example : Bodyline in cricket .
This is particularly relevant because the players ruining the game soon found that it could have consequences outside the game , when a full-scale diplomatic spat was started over the practice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>another example: Bodyline in cricket.
This is particularly relevant because the players ruining the game soon found that it could have consequences outside the game, when a full-scale diplomatic spat was started over the practice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600851</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28615737</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Valdrax</author>
	<datestamp>1246969800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Yeah, others have pointed out the factual errors, but think about this for a minute man.</p></div><p>No real factual errors per se.  As I've pointed out elsewhere, the whole traffic example was 100\% true in both of the states I've lived in.  I just forgot it wasn't in many other states.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>This is THE PVP area in a HEROS VS VILLAINS game. He's playing a hero. He goes in to kill villains. And HE is in the wrong?</p></div><p>As others point out, he wasn't really playing the game the way it was intended.  If he was, not only would he have gotten XP for it, but the developers wouldn't have later banned the behavior.  He wasn't doing it to play a character "correctly," but to deliberately flout the social norms of the game.  Considering that he goes on later to mess with PvE fights after his initial griefing is banned, it's not about being a "hero" by any stretch of the imagination.</p><p>The problem is that just because PVP is <em>possible</em> in this area doesn't mean it's accepted by custom.  Different games have different PVP cultures.  "PVP Everyone" is the old style you used to see in games like UO &amp; EQ which continues to this day in EVE.  "PVP Dueling" is the style you see in games like CoH/V and WoW.  He went in with the deliberate aim, not to "enjoy the game as it was meant to be played," but to tweak and anger people as part of a sociology experiment.</p><p>So, yes, he's in the wrong -- by conscious design.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , others have pointed out the factual errors , but think about this for a minute man.No real factual errors per se .
As I 've pointed out elsewhere , the whole traffic example was 100 \ % true in both of the states I 've lived in .
I just forgot it was n't in many other states.This is THE PVP area in a HEROS VS VILLAINS game .
He 's playing a hero .
He goes in to kill villains .
And HE is in the wrong ? As others point out , he was n't really playing the game the way it was intended .
If he was , not only would he have gotten XP for it , but the developers would n't have later banned the behavior .
He was n't doing it to play a character " correctly , " but to deliberately flout the social norms of the game .
Considering that he goes on later to mess with PvE fights after his initial griefing is banned , it 's not about being a " hero " by any stretch of the imagination.The problem is that just because PVP is possible in this area does n't mean it 's accepted by custom .
Different games have different PVP cultures .
" PVP Everyone " is the old style you used to see in games like UO &amp; EQ which continues to this day in EVE .
" PVP Dueling " is the style you see in games like CoH/V and WoW .
He went in with the deliberate aim , not to " enjoy the game as it was meant to be played , " but to tweak and anger people as part of a sociology experiment.So , yes , he 's in the wrong -- by conscious design .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, others have pointed out the factual errors, but think about this for a minute man.No real factual errors per se.
As I've pointed out elsewhere, the whole traffic example was 100\% true in both of the states I've lived in.
I just forgot it wasn't in many other states.This is THE PVP area in a HEROS VS VILLAINS game.
He's playing a hero.
He goes in to kill villains.
And HE is in the wrong?As others point out, he wasn't really playing the game the way it was intended.
If he was, not only would he have gotten XP for it, but the developers wouldn't have later banned the behavior.
He wasn't doing it to play a character "correctly," but to deliberately flout the social norms of the game.
Considering that he goes on later to mess with PvE fights after his initial griefing is banned, it's not about being a "hero" by any stretch of the imagination.The problem is that just because PVP is possible in this area doesn't mean it's accepted by custom.
Different games have different PVP cultures.
"PVP Everyone" is the old style you used to see in games like UO &amp; EQ which continues to this day in EVE.
"PVP Dueling" is the style you see in games like CoH/V and WoW.
He went in with the deliberate aim, not to "enjoy the game as it was meant to be played," but to tweak and anger people as part of a sociology experiment.So, yes, he's in the wrong -- by conscious design.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603853</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28647077</id>
	<title>Not about right or wrong,it&#194;s about the exper</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247218800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After reading some of the comments it seems that many guys who have suffered such "unorthodox" behavior on the part of their team-mates take the professor&#194;s experiment really personally.<br>Obviously any gamer who has ever played any kind of a massive multiplayer online would be instantly capable to predict the results of this experiment.<br>However, it does not diminish its scientific value, or rather the interesting facts behind it:</p><p>1. Independently of their designer&#194;s plan, massive multiplayers will adopt their own set of social norms.</p><p>This is an obvious one if we look at the development in the web in the last decade.</p><p>2. These social norms do in fact converge into a larger concept based on fairness and equality, independently on the specifics of the game. (numerous accounts of players on diff. platforms stating largely the same stories).</p><p>Meaning that there are more poeple looking for order and certainty than the opposite. The human society is by its nature bound to ascend from chaos into some form of ordered co-existence. Usually no one who enters into a society is ready to engage into merciless competition without any rules. (Is this true, or are the people playing MMo&#194;s more susceptible to be socially formed / adapted. - perhaps one could argue they are looking for a set of rules to adhere to and a person who isn&#194;t would behave differently.)</p><p>Another interesting question is whether the society values order (certainity) more than fairness.<br>What would happen if the professor after becoming a dominant figure, would propose the weaker guys he was killing, to form an (unsafe) allience and spare them in exchange for them to join his way of playing?<br>My hypothesis is that a vast majority would join him if he would exert a fairly serious effort to prove his superiority.<br>The results could hint towards the answer to problems such as, Is the human society bound by its nature to guard moral values, or succumb to the supposed safety of a dictatorship without such. Which might gives us un indication whether our future looks more like the Start Trek, or more like the Chronicles of Riddick.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>3. A society left with no means to effectively sanction (exclude) its members will fall into despair and eventually desintegrate.</p><p>The fact that people threatened the professor does not by itself prove that they value their "virtual" society as if it was their "physical" society (their state, city, block - guaranteeing their physical safety and social inclusion), although their level of emotional involvement is astonishing. (but anyone who ever played some kind of game with his friends has wittnessed such a behaviour at least once<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br>What this means for Game designers is an important lesson and that is, that they should limit the possibility of misbehaviour to the minimum, or offer effective sanctioning mechanisms in the game, otherwise they will be continually loosing community members.</p><p>You might say... nothing new about that, but it is interesting to research the group dynamics of virtual communities, perhaps they can point out some interesting facts about real-life communities as well.</p><p>vlasto</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After reading some of the comments it seems that many guys who have suffered such " unorthodox " behavior on the part of their team-mates take the professor   s experiment really personally.Obviously any gamer who has ever played any kind of a massive multiplayer online would be instantly capable to predict the results of this experiment.However , it does not diminish its scientific value , or rather the interesting facts behind it : 1 .
Independently of their designer   s plan , massive multiplayers will adopt their own set of social norms.This is an obvious one if we look at the development in the web in the last decade.2 .
These social norms do in fact converge into a larger concept based on fairness and equality , independently on the specifics of the game .
( numerous accounts of players on diff .
platforms stating largely the same stories ) .Meaning that there are more poeple looking for order and certainty than the opposite .
The human society is by its nature bound to ascend from chaos into some form of ordered co-existence .
Usually no one who enters into a society is ready to engage into merciless competition without any rules .
( Is this true , or are the people playing MMo   s more susceptible to be socially formed / adapted .
- perhaps one could argue they are looking for a set of rules to adhere to and a person who isn   t would behave differently .
) Another interesting question is whether the society values order ( certainity ) more than fairness.What would happen if the professor after becoming a dominant figure , would propose the weaker guys he was killing , to form an ( unsafe ) allience and spare them in exchange for them to join his way of playing ? My hypothesis is that a vast majority would join him if he would exert a fairly serious effort to prove his superiority.The results could hint towards the answer to problems such as , Is the human society bound by its nature to guard moral values , or succumb to the supposed safety of a dictatorship without such .
Which might gives us un indication whether our future looks more like the Start Trek , or more like the Chronicles of Riddick .
: ) 3. A society left with no means to effectively sanction ( exclude ) its members will fall into despair and eventually desintegrate.The fact that people threatened the professor does not by itself prove that they value their " virtual " society as if it was their " physical " society ( their state , city , block - guaranteeing their physical safety and social inclusion ) , although their level of emotional involvement is astonishing .
( but anyone who ever played some kind of game with his friends has wittnessed such a behaviour at least once : ) What this means for Game designers is an important lesson and that is , that they should limit the possibility of misbehaviour to the minimum , or offer effective sanctioning mechanisms in the game , otherwise they will be continually loosing community members.You might say... nothing new about that , but it is interesting to research the group dynamics of virtual communities , perhaps they can point out some interesting facts about real-life communities as well.vlasto</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After reading some of the comments it seems that many guys who have suffered such "unorthodox" behavior on the part of their team-mates take the professorÂs experiment really personally.Obviously any gamer who has ever played any kind of a massive multiplayer online would be instantly capable to predict the results of this experiment.However, it does not diminish its scientific value, or rather the interesting facts behind it:1.
Independently of their designerÂs plan, massive multiplayers will adopt their own set of social norms.This is an obvious one if we look at the development in the web in the last decade.2.
These social norms do in fact converge into a larger concept based on fairness and equality, independently on the specifics of the game.
(numerous accounts of players on diff.
platforms stating largely the same stories).Meaning that there are more poeple looking for order and certainty than the opposite.
The human society is by its nature bound to ascend from chaos into some form of ordered co-existence.
Usually no one who enters into a society is ready to engage into merciless competition without any rules.
(Is this true, or are the people playing MMoÂs more susceptible to be socially formed / adapted.
- perhaps one could argue they are looking for a set of rules to adhere to and a person who isnÂt would behave differently.
)Another interesting question is whether the society values order (certainity) more than fairness.What would happen if the professor after becoming a dominant figure, would propose the weaker guys he was killing, to form an (unsafe) allience and spare them in exchange for them to join his way of playing?My hypothesis is that a vast majority would join him if he would exert a fairly serious effort to prove his superiority.The results could hint towards the answer to problems such as, Is the human society bound by its nature to guard moral values, or succumb to the supposed safety of a dictatorship without such.
Which might gives us un indication whether our future looks more like the Start Trek, or more like the Chronicles of Riddick.
:)3. A society left with no means to effectively sanction (exclude) its members will fall into despair and eventually desintegrate.The fact that people threatened the professor does not by itself prove that they value their "virtual" society as if it was their "physical" society (their state, city, block - guaranteeing their physical safety and social inclusion), although their level of emotional involvement is astonishing.
(but anyone who ever played some kind of game with his friends has wittnessed such a behaviour at least once :)What this means for Game designers is an important lesson and that is, that they should limit the possibility of misbehaviour to the minimum, or offer effective sanctioning mechanisms in the game, otherwise they will be continually loosing community members.You might say... nothing new about that, but it is interesting to research the group dynamics of virtual communities, perhaps they can point out some interesting facts about real-life communities as well.vlasto</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28634861</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247146260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>well my beef was that they forced pulled and pushed people out of ledges...</p><p>no, i mean ALLWAYS FORCED PUSHED ME AND OTHER OUT OF LEDGES!</p><p>Some reatarded gamer munchins!</p><p>And i was the one that got kicked for complaining about that!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>well my beef was that they forced pulled and pushed people out of ledges...no , i mean ALLWAYS FORCED PUSHED ME AND OTHER OUT OF LEDGES ! Some reatarded gamer munchins ! And i was the one that got kicked for complaining about that !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>well my beef was that they forced pulled and pushed people out of ledges...no, i mean ALLWAYS FORCED PUSHED ME AND OTHER OUT OF LEDGES!Some reatarded gamer munchins!And i was the one that got kicked for complaining about that!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601649</id>
	<title>Re:What an ass...</title>
	<author>cbhacking</author>
	<datestamp>1246884660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, I'm not sure which is worse - the fact that what he is getting reviled for doing *exactly* the point of the game (heroes and villians, think about it), or that you looked at the evidence and somehow concluded that he was doing it because he wanted to "be a dick on the internet." Sounds to me like he was playing the damn game. He wasn't even talking trash, for crying out loud! Sure, nobody personally likes the guy that kills them in a game, but the correct response is to try and kill him right back (in game), not whine, make insults, or send real-life threats.</p><p>The equivalent "next research project" would be going down to the bus station with a wanted list from the police, and calling the cops whenever he sees somebody on that list. Sure, that person might not have done anything to him personally, but they chose a "side" of society that... you know, this whole analogy is absurd. It's a goddamn PvP game, the objective being to pit player against player. Do you play CounterStrike by any chance? I suggest next time you play as one of the terrorists, you try sitting down for a chat with one of your opponents, and maybe suggest seeing who can throw a grenade the furthest (but not *AT* one another, of course!) You might get a "LOL!!" before he shoots you in the face. Probably only after, though. Quite a bunch of dicks, though counter-terrorists, aren't they!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , I 'm not sure which is worse - the fact that what he is getting reviled for doing * exactly * the point of the game ( heroes and villians , think about it ) , or that you looked at the evidence and somehow concluded that he was doing it because he wanted to " be a dick on the internet .
" Sounds to me like he was playing the damn game .
He was n't even talking trash , for crying out loud !
Sure , nobody personally likes the guy that kills them in a game , but the correct response is to try and kill him right back ( in game ) , not whine , make insults , or send real-life threats.The equivalent " next research project " would be going down to the bus station with a wanted list from the police , and calling the cops whenever he sees somebody on that list .
Sure , that person might not have done anything to him personally , but they chose a " side " of society that... you know , this whole analogy is absurd .
It 's a goddamn PvP game , the objective being to pit player against player .
Do you play CounterStrike by any chance ?
I suggest next time you play as one of the terrorists , you try sitting down for a chat with one of your opponents , and maybe suggest seeing who can throw a grenade the furthest ( but not * AT * one another , of course !
) You might get a " LOL ! !
" before he shoots you in the face .
Probably only after , though .
Quite a bunch of dicks , though counter-terrorists , are n't they !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, I'm not sure which is worse - the fact that what he is getting reviled for doing *exactly* the point of the game (heroes and villians, think about it), or that you looked at the evidence and somehow concluded that he was doing it because he wanted to "be a dick on the internet.
" Sounds to me like he was playing the damn game.
He wasn't even talking trash, for crying out loud!
Sure, nobody personally likes the guy that kills them in a game, but the correct response is to try and kill him right back (in game), not whine, make insults, or send real-life threats.The equivalent "next research project" would be going down to the bus station with a wanted list from the police, and calling the cops whenever he sees somebody on that list.
Sure, that person might not have done anything to him personally, but they chose a "side" of society that... you know, this whole analogy is absurd.
It's a goddamn PvP game, the objective being to pit player against player.
Do you play CounterStrike by any chance?
I suggest next time you play as one of the terrorists, you try sitting down for a chat with one of your opponents, and maybe suggest seeing who can throw a grenade the furthest (but not *AT* one another, of course!
) You might get a "LOL!!
" before he shoots you in the face.
Probably only after, though.
Quite a bunch of dicks, though counter-terrorists, aren't they!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600807</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603999</id>
	<title>Re:see what you're missing in academia...</title>
	<author>digitalloving</author>
	<datestamp>1246901820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The fact that he is possibly targeting minors, creating risk to them through emotional trauma, and making academic claims about the information he is gathering on online subjects definitely means he should have IRB approval.  Any reasonable academic would state that, especially given the risque nature of the study.  In fact, given my experience with the IRB, I doubt he would even get approval.  It really saddens me that so many graduate students spend their time following the rules just to watch misguided faculty members ignore them.  I like the message this sends.

Below is a link to their own policy for online research.  It does not deviate much from the policies I have seen at the multiple institutions I have attended.  To the best of my reading, his research is in flagrant violation of the policies.
<a href="http://www.luc.edu/ors/irbonlinesurveys2.shtml" title="luc.edu" rel="nofollow">http://www.luc.edu/ors/irbonlinesurveys2.shtml</a> [luc.edu]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact that he is possibly targeting minors , creating risk to them through emotional trauma , and making academic claims about the information he is gathering on online subjects definitely means he should have IRB approval .
Any reasonable academic would state that , especially given the risque nature of the study .
In fact , given my experience with the IRB , I doubt he would even get approval .
It really saddens me that so many graduate students spend their time following the rules just to watch misguided faculty members ignore them .
I like the message this sends .
Below is a link to their own policy for online research .
It does not deviate much from the policies I have seen at the multiple institutions I have attended .
To the best of my reading , his research is in flagrant violation of the policies .
http : //www.luc.edu/ors/irbonlinesurveys2.shtml [ luc.edu ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fact that he is possibly targeting minors, creating risk to them through emotional trauma, and making academic claims about the information he is gathering on online subjects definitely means he should have IRB approval.
Any reasonable academic would state that, especially given the risque nature of the study.
In fact, given my experience with the IRB, I doubt he would even get approval.
It really saddens me that so many graduate students spend their time following the rules just to watch misguided faculty members ignore them.
I like the message this sends.
Below is a link to their own policy for online research.
It does not deviate much from the policies I have seen at the multiple institutions I have attended.
To the best of my reading, his research is in flagrant violation of the policies.
http://www.luc.edu/ors/irbonlinesurveys2.shtml [luc.edu]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602137</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602845</id>
	<title>So here is the email I sent him.</title>
	<author>Maxo-Texas</author>
	<datestamp>1246892760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>His email is easy enough to find, along with a phone number.</p><p>---</p><p>I suffered from griefers like you in Everquest who trained me more than once.</p><p>You rationalize "If you aren't a member of the tribe, you get whacked with a stick," he said. "I look at social groups with dismay" but I'll give it to you straight.</p><p>People didn't like you because you were a Jerk.</p><p>You made your point- you cleverly created a hero who couldn't be beat.</p><p>Then you proceeded to spend months ruining the game for a lot of people who just wanted to sign on and have fun.  In short, you made a lot of people angry and unhappy.  You added a lot of hostility to the world that I'm sure got vented on others.</p><p>It has nothing to do with "tribes" or "eye color" or anything like that.  You were just a major jerk and despised for it.  You put your feelings ahead of hundreds of other people.  You didn't care at all how many people you made angry- and like most griefers, you probably enjoyed it and got a sick ego thrill out of your "power".</p><p>You might not be that way in real life where you are not anonymous.</p><p>If it had been my game and you were upsetting that many of my customers- I'd have suspended you or disabled your character's power and then, I'm sure you would have forced me to ban you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>His email is easy enough to find , along with a phone number.---I suffered from griefers like you in Everquest who trained me more than once.You rationalize " If you are n't a member of the tribe , you get whacked with a stick , " he said .
" I look at social groups with dismay " but I 'll give it to you straight.People did n't like you because you were a Jerk.You made your point- you cleverly created a hero who could n't be beat.Then you proceeded to spend months ruining the game for a lot of people who just wanted to sign on and have fun .
In short , you made a lot of people angry and unhappy .
You added a lot of hostility to the world that I 'm sure got vented on others.It has nothing to do with " tribes " or " eye color " or anything like that .
You were just a major jerk and despised for it .
You put your feelings ahead of hundreds of other people .
You did n't care at all how many people you made angry- and like most griefers , you probably enjoyed it and got a sick ego thrill out of your " power " .You might not be that way in real life where you are not anonymous.If it had been my game and you were upsetting that many of my customers- I 'd have suspended you or disabled your character 's power and then , I 'm sure you would have forced me to ban you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>His email is easy enough to find, along with a phone number.---I suffered from griefers like you in Everquest who trained me more than once.You rationalize "If you aren't a member of the tribe, you get whacked with a stick," he said.
"I look at social groups with dismay" but I'll give it to you straight.People didn't like you because you were a Jerk.You made your point- you cleverly created a hero who couldn't be beat.Then you proceeded to spend months ruining the game for a lot of people who just wanted to sign on and have fun.
In short, you made a lot of people angry and unhappy.
You added a lot of hostility to the world that I'm sure got vented on others.It has nothing to do with "tribes" or "eye color" or anything like that.
You were just a major jerk and despised for it.
You put your feelings ahead of hundreds of other people.
You didn't care at all how many people you made angry- and like most griefers, you probably enjoyed it and got a sick ego thrill out of your "power".You might not be that way in real life where you are not anonymous.If it had been my game and you were upsetting that many of my customers- I'd have suspended you or disabled your character's power and then, I'm sure you would have forced me to ban you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604579</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Fluffeh</author>
	<datestamp>1246909500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You only get to go PVP with people who have consented, and the arena is a place for people on other sides of the Heroes / Villains game split to be able to chat otherwise.</p></div><p>So when he got them to consent and beat them by outwitting them, they cry because people keep falling for it? Pffft. Sounds like a dream game for a few smart people.<br> <br>

Sure, in reality it's griefing other players, but that's up to the dev's to decide whether they need to change game mechanics to alter what players are able to do. If a dev doesn't want people to fall for said stupid trick over and over, they need to stop that trick being able to be done.<br> <br>

A perfect example would be the old "run up to a monster, kite it to another player and have it agro them via some game mechanic (Feign Death, invisibility etc etc). Blizzard decided they would not allow this to happen, so they changed the AI in monsters to run back to where they were originally after losing interest in the tagged player. This stops people kiting something totally. If enough people cried about falling for some simple dumb trick or it really broke the game that much, the dev's would have resolved the issue. If it's just dumb people complaining that someone tricked them into doing something stupid, then I am totally with the researcher.<br> <br>

<b>Play YOUR game, following other people's rules.</b></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You only get to go PVP with people who have consented , and the arena is a place for people on other sides of the Heroes / Villains game split to be able to chat otherwise.So when he got them to consent and beat them by outwitting them , they cry because people keep falling for it ?
Pffft. Sounds like a dream game for a few smart people .
Sure , in reality it 's griefing other players , but that 's up to the dev 's to decide whether they need to change game mechanics to alter what players are able to do .
If a dev does n't want people to fall for said stupid trick over and over , they need to stop that trick being able to be done .
A perfect example would be the old " run up to a monster , kite it to another player and have it agro them via some game mechanic ( Feign Death , invisibility etc etc ) .
Blizzard decided they would not allow this to happen , so they changed the AI in monsters to run back to where they were originally after losing interest in the tagged player .
This stops people kiting something totally .
If enough people cried about falling for some simple dumb trick or it really broke the game that much , the dev 's would have resolved the issue .
If it 's just dumb people complaining that someone tricked them into doing something stupid , then I am totally with the researcher .
Play YOUR game , following other people 's rules .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You only get to go PVP with people who have consented, and the arena is a place for people on other sides of the Heroes / Villains game split to be able to chat otherwise.So when he got them to consent and beat them by outwitting them, they cry because people keep falling for it?
Pffft. Sounds like a dream game for a few smart people.
Sure, in reality it's griefing other players, but that's up to the dev's to decide whether they need to change game mechanics to alter what players are able to do.
If a dev doesn't want people to fall for said stupid trick over and over, they need to stop that trick being able to be done.
A perfect example would be the old "run up to a monster, kite it to another player and have it agro them via some game mechanic (Feign Death, invisibility etc etc).
Blizzard decided they would not allow this to happen, so they changed the AI in monsters to run back to where they were originally after losing interest in the tagged player.
This stops people kiting something totally.
If enough people cried about falling for some simple dumb trick or it really broke the game that much, the dev's would have resolved the issue.
If it's just dumb people complaining that someone tricked them into doing something stupid, then I am totally with the researcher.
Play YOUR game, following other people's rules.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28628645</id>
	<title>Re:Not Research</title>
	<author>ocularDeathRay</author>
	<datestamp>1247049060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>dont talk about fightclub lulz</htmltext>
<tokenext>dont talk about fightclub lulz</tokentext>
<sentencetext>dont talk about fightclub lulz</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602667</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604915</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246999800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow this post was just shock full of bad analogies!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow this post was just shock full of bad analogies !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow this post was just shock full of bad analogies!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605083</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>dgbrownnt</author>
	<datestamp>1246958640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>On whole, I agree that the researcher and/or those reporting are a bit naive in their responses.  I just have two points, though:
<br>
<br>Point 1: Developers get to say what the game is
<br>
<br>When you play, you've agreed to a TOS.  If they felt like having it in their TOS that players can't idly stand by talking to the 'enemy', they could do that, though it would be a weird way of approaching it.  Some games don't allow it from the start, such as WoW (they've gone through efforts to make sure that players can't communite cross-faction in-game).  That's not to say that such decisions could be unpopular and could cost the developers their customers, just that it's their decision in the end.  Hopefully the relationship, though, is mutually beneficial with the developers listening to the customers and the customers paying the developers (aka, business).
<br>
<br>Point 2: Laws versus customs
<br>
<br>Your example of the speed limit is actually wrong (at least everywhere I've lived).  If you go 45mph in a 55mph zone in good driving conditions and obstruct traffic, you will get a ticket.  AFAIK, most states have laws against any actions that create unsafe driving conditions.  In Washington, you could even be going over the speed limit and get a ticket if you'd obstructing the left lane.
<br>
<br>Noise violations at 3am are also breaking the law, as are unwanted sexual advances (whether or not they occur in a night club).
<br>
<br>So I thought I'd give you a better example: escalators in Japan.  I like this example since it's a contract to the US.  Depending on what part of Japan you are in, people either stand on the left side or the right side of the escalator if they're just standing.  It allows those that want to walk up to get by.  While you're doing nothing illegal if you stand on the other side, you'd still ignoring a custom and will likely aggrivate the people around you because you're getting in the way.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On whole , I agree that the researcher and/or those reporting are a bit naive in their responses .
I just have two points , though : Point 1 : Developers get to say what the game is When you play , you 've agreed to a TOS .
If they felt like having it in their TOS that players ca n't idly stand by talking to the 'enemy ' , they could do that , though it would be a weird way of approaching it .
Some games do n't allow it from the start , such as WoW ( they 've gone through efforts to make sure that players ca n't communite cross-faction in-game ) .
That 's not to say that such decisions could be unpopular and could cost the developers their customers , just that it 's their decision in the end .
Hopefully the relationship , though , is mutually beneficial with the developers listening to the customers and the customers paying the developers ( aka , business ) .
Point 2 : Laws versus customs Your example of the speed limit is actually wrong ( at least everywhere I 've lived ) .
If you go 45mph in a 55mph zone in good driving conditions and obstruct traffic , you will get a ticket .
AFAIK , most states have laws against any actions that create unsafe driving conditions .
In Washington , you could even be going over the speed limit and get a ticket if you 'd obstructing the left lane .
Noise violations at 3am are also breaking the law , as are unwanted sexual advances ( whether or not they occur in a night club ) .
So I thought I 'd give you a better example : escalators in Japan .
I like this example since it 's a contract to the US .
Depending on what part of Japan you are in , people either stand on the left side or the right side of the escalator if they 're just standing .
It allows those that want to walk up to get by .
While you 're doing nothing illegal if you stand on the other side , you 'd still ignoring a custom and will likely aggrivate the people around you because you 're getting in the way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On whole, I agree that the researcher and/or those reporting are a bit naive in their responses.
I just have two points, though:

Point 1: Developers get to say what the game is

When you play, you've agreed to a TOS.
If they felt like having it in their TOS that players can't idly stand by talking to the 'enemy', they could do that, though it would be a weird way of approaching it.
Some games don't allow it from the start, such as WoW (they've gone through efforts to make sure that players can't communite cross-faction in-game).
That's not to say that such decisions could be unpopular and could cost the developers their customers, just that it's their decision in the end.
Hopefully the relationship, though, is mutually beneficial with the developers listening to the customers and the customers paying the developers (aka, business).
Point 2: Laws versus customs

Your example of the speed limit is actually wrong (at least everywhere I've lived).
If you go 45mph in a 55mph zone in good driving conditions and obstruct traffic, you will get a ticket.
AFAIK, most states have laws against any actions that create unsafe driving conditions.
In Washington, you could even be going over the speed limit and get a ticket if you'd obstructing the left lane.
Noise violations at 3am are also breaking the law, as are unwanted sexual advances (whether or not they occur in a night club).
So I thought I'd give you a better example: escalators in Japan.
I like this example since it's a contract to the US.
Depending on what part of Japan you are in, people either stand on the left side or the right side of the escalator if they're just standing.
It allows those that want to walk up to get by.
While you're doing nothing illegal if you stand on the other side, you'd still ignoring a custom and will likely aggrivate the people around you because you're getting in the way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602951</id>
	<title>Why doesn't he do that in real world?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246893600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; Why he does that research in on-line world, instead of the real world? Really, he would be suprised that people will be angry,insultive, abusive to him if he would pull out shit like:<br>1: Driving exactly the speed limit on carpool/fast line.<br>2: Calling police if anyone else went faster than the speed limit.<br>3: Calling police because he think the woman holding a child's arms is doing it too hard, and needs to have social services called on her.<br>4: etc, etc,etc...</p><p>
&nbsp; I wonder how he would feel, if I kept on raising my hand in his class, constantly asking a question about what he just said.<br>AFTER ALL I HAVE A RIGHT AS A STUDENT TO HAVE PROFESSOR EXPLAIN TO ME ALL THAT IS NEEDED! AND THEN GO TO THE DEAN WHEN HE TELLS ME TO HOLD OFF, or WAIT TILL END OF THE CLASS, to complain that, "IM JUST FOLLOWING THE CLASS RULES!"<br>on top of it, go to his office hours and spend every minute going over the books reading.<br>REALLY, I WONDER HOW HE WOULD FEEL ABOUT IT??</p><p>
&nbsp; So please, stop this naivety. He is acting like an asshole, and faints ignorance on why people dislike him. AND HE GETS PAID FOR IT?? WOW, NEWS AT 8! PEOPLE ACTING LIKE SELF RIGHTEOUS ASSHOLES ARE NOT WELCOME IN COMMUNITIES!!!</p><p>
&nbsp; He is an asshole, simple and clear.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>  Why he does that research in on-line world , instead of the real world ?
Really , he would be suprised that people will be angry,insultive , abusive to him if he would pull out shit like : 1 : Driving exactly the speed limit on carpool/fast line.2 : Calling police if anyone else went faster than the speed limit.3 : Calling police because he think the woman holding a child 's arms is doing it too hard , and needs to have social services called on her.4 : etc , etc,etc.. .   I wonder how he would feel , if I kept on raising my hand in his class , constantly asking a question about what he just said.AFTER ALL I HAVE A RIGHT AS A STUDENT TO HAVE PROFESSOR EXPLAIN TO ME ALL THAT IS NEEDED !
AND THEN GO TO THE DEAN WHEN HE TELLS ME TO HOLD OFF , or WAIT TILL END OF THE CLASS , to complain that , " IM JUST FOLLOWING THE CLASS RULES !
" on top of it , go to his office hours and spend every minute going over the books reading.REALLY , I WONDER HOW HE WOULD FEEL ABOUT IT ? ?
  So please , stop this naivety .
He is acting like an asshole , and faints ignorance on why people dislike him .
AND HE GETS PAID FOR IT ? ?
WOW , NEWS AT 8 !
PEOPLE ACTING LIKE SELF RIGHTEOUS ASSHOLES ARE NOT WELCOME IN COMMUNITIES ! ! !
  He is an asshole , simple and clear .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
  Why he does that research in on-line world, instead of the real world?
Really, he would be suprised that people will be angry,insultive, abusive to him if he would pull out shit like:1: Driving exactly the speed limit on carpool/fast line.2: Calling police if anyone else went faster than the speed limit.3: Calling police because he think the woman holding a child's arms is doing it too hard, and needs to have social services called on her.4: etc, etc,etc...
  I wonder how he would feel, if I kept on raising my hand in his class, constantly asking a question about what he just said.AFTER ALL I HAVE A RIGHT AS A STUDENT TO HAVE PROFESSOR EXPLAIN TO ME ALL THAT IS NEEDED!
AND THEN GO TO THE DEAN WHEN HE TELLS ME TO HOLD OFF, or WAIT TILL END OF THE CLASS, to complain that, "IM JUST FOLLOWING THE CLASS RULES!
"on top of it, go to his office hours and spend every minute going over the books reading.REALLY, I WONDER HOW HE WOULD FEEL ABOUT IT??
  So please, stop this naivety.
He is acting like an asshole, and faints ignorance on why people dislike him.
AND HE GETS PAID FOR IT??
WOW, NEWS AT 8!
PEOPLE ACTING LIKE SELF RIGHTEOUS ASSHOLES ARE NOT WELCOME IN COMMUNITIES!!!
  He is an asshole, simple and clear.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600933</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246880820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>just because a game developer didnt prevent something doesnt mean that its within the rules.</p></div></blockquote><p>So what you're saying is that even though they -didn't- make it impossible for him to attack the opposing faction, he was wrong for doing so. Despite the fact that doing so was the intent of the game's setup?</p><blockquote><div><p>if developers force any player base into something they do not like, they QUIT. and go to another game.</p></div></blockquote><p>So why haven't the people who play City of Heroes/Villains all left? Because there's nothing to prevent  anyone from starting a character and attacking the opposing faction. In fact, it's encouraged.</p><blockquote><div><p>herefore, for all those badass/darth maul wannabee morons out there - you wont be able to freely be a badass asshole even in a mmo game - regardless how hard you argue that 'its within the rules', any assholery you commit is going to get added to your reputation, and eventually you'll find yourself changing your realm AND your character's nickname.</p></div></blockquote><p>Wait, so playing the game as it was INTENDED to be played is being an asshole?</p><blockquote><div><p>people doesnt give a shit about what's within the hard rules of the game or not - they have their own opinions and judgments - noone can change that, neither a badass wannabee asshole, or self-righteous developer.</p></div></blockquote><p>This is the biggest pile of deluded nonsense ever. They intended for PvP to happen. PvP happens. Idiots cry.</p><blockquote><div><p>so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.</p></div></blockquote><p>It's not society, it's a game. I imagine that people such as yourself who confuse the two might have a problem with what he did.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>just because a game developer didnt prevent something doesnt mean that its within the rules.So what you 're saying is that even though they -did n't- make it impossible for him to attack the opposing faction , he was wrong for doing so .
Despite the fact that doing so was the intent of the game 's setup ? if developers force any player base into something they do not like , they QUIT .
and go to another game.So why have n't the people who play City of Heroes/Villains all left ?
Because there 's nothing to prevent anyone from starting a character and attacking the opposing faction .
In fact , it 's encouraged.herefore , for all those badass/darth maul wannabee morons out there - you wont be able to freely be a badass asshole even in a mmo game - regardless how hard you argue that 'its within the rules ' , any assholery you commit is going to get added to your reputation , and eventually you 'll find yourself changing your realm AND your character 's nickname.Wait , so playing the game as it was INTENDED to be played is being an asshole ? people doesnt give a shit about what 's within the hard rules of the game or not - they have their own opinions and judgments - noone can change that , neither a badass wannabee asshole , or self-righteous developer.This is the biggest pile of deluded nonsense ever .
They intended for PvP to happen .
PvP happens .
Idiots cry.so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules ' , and get used to living in a society.It 's not society , it 's a game .
I imagine that people such as yourself who confuse the two might have a problem with what he did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>just because a game developer didnt prevent something doesnt mean that its within the rules.So what you're saying is that even though they -didn't- make it impossible for him to attack the opposing faction, he was wrong for doing so.
Despite the fact that doing so was the intent of the game's setup?if developers force any player base into something they do not like, they QUIT.
and go to another game.So why haven't the people who play City of Heroes/Villains all left?
Because there's nothing to prevent  anyone from starting a character and attacking the opposing faction.
In fact, it's encouraged.herefore, for all those badass/darth maul wannabee morons out there - you wont be able to freely be a badass asshole even in a mmo game - regardless how hard you argue that 'its within the rules', any assholery you commit is going to get added to your reputation, and eventually you'll find yourself changing your realm AND your character's nickname.Wait, so playing the game as it was INTENDED to be played is being an asshole?people doesnt give a shit about what's within the hard rules of the game or not - they have their own opinions and judgments - noone can change that, neither a badass wannabee asshole, or self-righteous developer.This is the biggest pile of deluded nonsense ever.
They intended for PvP to happen.
PvP happens.
Idiots cry.so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.It's not society, it's a game.
I imagine that people such as yourself who confuse the two might have a problem with what he did.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601803</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>palantir0</author>
	<datestamp>1246885440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would wholeheartedly agree.  Especially, the line "The results are not surprising, interesting, or even insightful".  The results were obvious.  I play pvp worlds exclusively with coh/cov being one of the weaker pvp game types.  Most good players aren't dicks like this unless there was something to fight over.  The majority of the people don't want to play with people that just gank/harass others via the methods available in a game.  On the other hand, if you are playing in a PvP game/world, shutup and don't whine.  You have options, leave, logon a different character that might be able to kill the offending party, get some friends to help, whatever.  I prefer games where you can be ganked like Shadowbane where after lvl 20 you are free game unless in the city.  Therefore, get some friends.  There are always these types of people.
<p>
The professor really just exposed his lack of experience in anything related to mmorpgs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would wholeheartedly agree .
Especially , the line " The results are not surprising , interesting , or even insightful " .
The results were obvious .
I play pvp worlds exclusively with coh/cov being one of the weaker pvp game types .
Most good players are n't dicks like this unless there was something to fight over .
The majority of the people do n't want to play with people that just gank/harass others via the methods available in a game .
On the other hand , if you are playing in a PvP game/world , shutup and do n't whine .
You have options , leave , logon a different character that might be able to kill the offending party , get some friends to help , whatever .
I prefer games where you can be ganked like Shadowbane where after lvl 20 you are free game unless in the city .
Therefore , get some friends .
There are always these types of people .
The professor really just exposed his lack of experience in anything related to mmorpgs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would wholeheartedly agree.
Especially, the line "The results are not surprising, interesting, or even insightful".
The results were obvious.
I play pvp worlds exclusively with coh/cov being one of the weaker pvp game types.
Most good players aren't dicks like this unless there was something to fight over.
The majority of the people don't want to play with people that just gank/harass others via the methods available in a game.
On the other hand, if you are playing in a PvP game/world, shutup and don't whine.
You have options, leave, logon a different character that might be able to kill the offending party, get some friends to help, whatever.
I prefer games where you can be ganked like Shadowbane where after lvl 20 you are free game unless in the city.
Therefore, get some friends.
There are always these types of people.
The professor really just exposed his lack of experience in anything related to mmorpgs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603701</id>
	<title>Presumed Expectations</title>
	<author>sleepykit</author>
	<datestamp>1246898820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Me thinks, and this is without ever playing the MMO in question, that in killing villains, the doctor was affecting other players. Presumably, their only recourse was to go after him, with what sounds like varied success. In my eyes, he was being ostracized and criticized not because he was being different, as the article states, but very much because he was affecting game play and online activities of other people. Just because he was following the rules as set by the MMO does not somehow, in my eyes, give him a right to disregard the customs and traditions as set by players. An MMO, at least, means little without the community behind it and thus, to some extent, the community becomes the voice and law where none is set forth by the developers. </p><p>In that sense, I can't imagine what kind of a reaction he might have otherwise expected. Surely, as a professor who studies video games, he must also know a little about human nature. it boggles the mind that he might've genuinely believed that so long as game rules were followed, no one would fault him for being a troll.</p><p>Just a thought.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Me thinks , and this is without ever playing the MMO in question , that in killing villains , the doctor was affecting other players .
Presumably , their only recourse was to go after him , with what sounds like varied success .
In my eyes , he was being ostracized and criticized not because he was being different , as the article states , but very much because he was affecting game play and online activities of other people .
Just because he was following the rules as set by the MMO does not somehow , in my eyes , give him a right to disregard the customs and traditions as set by players .
An MMO , at least , means little without the community behind it and thus , to some extent , the community becomes the voice and law where none is set forth by the developers .
In that sense , I ca n't imagine what kind of a reaction he might have otherwise expected .
Surely , as a professor who studies video games , he must also know a little about human nature .
it boggles the mind that he might 've genuinely believed that so long as game rules were followed , no one would fault him for being a troll.Just a thought .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Me thinks, and this is without ever playing the MMO in question, that in killing villains, the doctor was affecting other players.
Presumably, their only recourse was to go after him, with what sounds like varied success.
In my eyes, he was being ostracized and criticized not because he was being different, as the article states, but very much because he was affecting game play and online activities of other people.
Just because he was following the rules as set by the MMO does not somehow, in my eyes, give him a right to disregard the customs and traditions as set by players.
An MMO, at least, means little without the community behind it and thus, to some extent, the community becomes the voice and law where none is set forth by the developers.
In that sense, I can't imagine what kind of a reaction he might have otherwise expected.
Surely, as a professor who studies video games, he must also know a little about human nature.
it boggles the mind that he might've genuinely believed that so long as game rules were followed, no one would fault him for being a troll.Just a thought.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28607725</id>
	<title>Happens in a lot of games..</title>
	<author>Madsy</author>
	<datestamp>1246979940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the later years in Counter-Strike, (when they went retail) some wiseguys made their own rules regarding what was allowed settings for the client network configuration, which they simply coined as "rates", claiming that lower settings made players more difficult to hit thus gaining an advantage. This had of course no merit what so ever, but it didn't stop this totally laughable rule to become a dogma in the community. "Fix your rates!", or "Your rates are wrong, you cheat!" became clich&#232;s in the ingame chat. Another similar claim without any merit was that using a 16-bit color depth did alpha blending differently compared to 32-bit true color, thus letting players see better through smoke from smoke grenades. This also gained a following. And let us not forget the made up rules regarding overpowered weapons like the AWP rifle. A lot of servers banned it alltogether, or capped it with metamod plugins, so only one player on each team could have one. And while they were at it, the majority of servers started kicking clients with more than 90 ms latency, even if the game played fine with up to 250 ms. This happened even before the "rate" rule gained popularity.<br>
What I mean to demonstrate with these examples is that if a game purposely let me set configurate settings to my liking or use a certain tactic or strategy <b>as a part of the game</b>, I don't care jack shit what made up rules a community has. I play my games as intended by the gameplay. The fact that CS gamers don't know what they talked about, only helps fuel my hopelessness I feel for the community.<br> <br>

If you are fed up with actual exploits, file a bug report. If you think a game mechanic is cheap, work around it, or don't play the game at all. <b>Don't</b> impose restrictions on others. It confuses newcomers and makes the game rules overly complex.<br> <br>

P.S The online community I played on was Norway/Europe. I don't know if this spread to other server regions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the later years in Counter-Strike , ( when they went retail ) some wiseguys made their own rules regarding what was allowed settings for the client network configuration , which they simply coined as " rates " , claiming that lower settings made players more difficult to hit thus gaining an advantage .
This had of course no merit what so ever , but it did n't stop this totally laughable rule to become a dogma in the community .
" Fix your rates !
" , or " Your rates are wrong , you cheat !
" became clich   s in the ingame chat .
Another similar claim without any merit was that using a 16-bit color depth did alpha blending differently compared to 32-bit true color , thus letting players see better through smoke from smoke grenades .
This also gained a following .
And let us not forget the made up rules regarding overpowered weapons like the AWP rifle .
A lot of servers banned it alltogether , or capped it with metamod plugins , so only one player on each team could have one .
And while they were at it , the majority of servers started kicking clients with more than 90 ms latency , even if the game played fine with up to 250 ms. This happened even before the " rate " rule gained popularity .
What I mean to demonstrate with these examples is that if a game purposely let me set configurate settings to my liking or use a certain tactic or strategy as a part of the game , I do n't care jack shit what made up rules a community has .
I play my games as intended by the gameplay .
The fact that CS gamers do n't know what they talked about , only helps fuel my hopelessness I feel for the community .
If you are fed up with actual exploits , file a bug report .
If you think a game mechanic is cheap , work around it , or do n't play the game at all .
Do n't impose restrictions on others .
It confuses newcomers and makes the game rules overly complex .
P.S The online community I played on was Norway/Europe .
I do n't know if this spread to other server regions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the later years in Counter-Strike, (when they went retail) some wiseguys made their own rules regarding what was allowed settings for the client network configuration, which they simply coined as "rates", claiming that lower settings made players more difficult to hit thus gaining an advantage.
This had of course no merit what so ever, but it didn't stop this totally laughable rule to become a dogma in the community.
"Fix your rates!
", or "Your rates are wrong, you cheat!
" became clichès in the ingame chat.
Another similar claim without any merit was that using a 16-bit color depth did alpha blending differently compared to 32-bit true color, thus letting players see better through smoke from smoke grenades.
This also gained a following.
And let us not forget the made up rules regarding overpowered weapons like the AWP rifle.
A lot of servers banned it alltogether, or capped it with metamod plugins, so only one player on each team could have one.
And while they were at it, the majority of servers started kicking clients with more than 90 ms latency, even if the game played fine with up to 250 ms. This happened even before the "rate" rule gained popularity.
What I mean to demonstrate with these examples is that if a game purposely let me set configurate settings to my liking or use a certain tactic or strategy as a part of the game, I don't care jack shit what made up rules a community has.
I play my games as intended by the gameplay.
The fact that CS gamers don't know what they talked about, only helps fuel my hopelessness I feel for the community.
If you are fed up with actual exploits, file a bug report.
If you think a game mechanic is cheap, work around it, or don't play the game at all.
Don't impose restrictions on others.
It confuses newcomers and makes the game rules overly complex.
P.S The online community I played on was Norway/Europe.
I don't know if this spread to other server regions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28606017</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Talderas</author>
	<datestamp>1246970640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe the common courtesy is to not PvP players who are in PvP zones working on badges that aren't directly related to PvP. Of note is Recluse's Victory. Villains don't PvP heroes who are trying to kill Lord Recluse, Captain Mako, Black Scorpion, Scirocco, and Ghost Widow, and Heroes extend the same courtesy to Villains trying to kill Statesman, Synapse, Sister Psyche, Positron, Back Alley Brawler, and Manticore. There's just basically not enough people that ever engage in PvP zones, at least on the servers I was on, to be able to have enough players to kill the AV characters and fend of PvPers at the same time. Essentially due to a degradation of player base numbers, a portion of the game has becomes unplayable if everyone played within the rules.</p><p>What the researcher was doing was significantly different though. Villains were, for whatever reason, skulking about the Hero base in a PvP region. As far as I recall, there is no reason to be skulking around the enemies base. There's no objectives at it, there's open communication between villains and heroes so that duels can be arranged, so why is a Villain there? To me that's an open sign that the villain is looking to gank whatever heroes he can. The villain is just crying foul over what is, admittedly, a very cheap tactic on the part of the researcher. Further, what's the point of even doing it? There's no statistical correlation to that kill credited to you at all.</p><p>What the researcher discovered was the side-effects of the e-peen. Players like PvP, but players also like PvP to be credited to them somehow. They like to show off that they're the best. World PvP is an old mechanic from a bygone era, PvP is decided in duels, matched games, or arena style matches. Look at World of Warcraft, World PvP on PvP servers doesn't really happen. Most of the PvP is duels outside capital cities between players of the same faction, or done in battlegrounds or arena, not random world PvP.</p><p>Why has this happened? Why has world PvP declined in WoW and other MMOs? I propose that it's due to the rise of arranged PvP, as well as the the more frequent occurrence of the grind. Developers have put highly desirable gear, enchantments, or other things into a grind that requires time to be spent in a PvP area. In WoW, I think a rather interesting state has been created. There's a mutual respect that seems to hold most of the time that Alliance and Horde don't attack people in world PvP. From a lore perspective, I think this fits in perfectly. There's a tenuous truce between the Alliance and Horde. Players not attacking each other in a way pay homage to that truce, but once one player breaks that truce, it seems that every Alliance and Horde nearby swing in and start fighting. Guilds get involved, and it can get potentially to the point that one side just decimates the other. It seems very true to the lore of WoW.</p><p>But the reality is that players realize that the other faction is going through the same annoying grind that you are. You don't engage in PvP because you don't want to draw down the wrath of the opposing faction making it annoying/difficult/near impossible for you to continue that grind.</p><p>Of course, all of that is thrown to the wind if he was playing on one of the unofficial RP servers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe the common courtesy is to not PvP players who are in PvP zones working on badges that are n't directly related to PvP .
Of note is Recluse 's Victory .
Villains do n't PvP heroes who are trying to kill Lord Recluse , Captain Mako , Black Scorpion , Scirocco , and Ghost Widow , and Heroes extend the same courtesy to Villains trying to kill Statesman , Synapse , Sister Psyche , Positron , Back Alley Brawler , and Manticore .
There 's just basically not enough people that ever engage in PvP zones , at least on the servers I was on , to be able to have enough players to kill the AV characters and fend of PvPers at the same time .
Essentially due to a degradation of player base numbers , a portion of the game has becomes unplayable if everyone played within the rules.What the researcher was doing was significantly different though .
Villains were , for whatever reason , skulking about the Hero base in a PvP region .
As far as I recall , there is no reason to be skulking around the enemies base .
There 's no objectives at it , there 's open communication between villains and heroes so that duels can be arranged , so why is a Villain there ?
To me that 's an open sign that the villain is looking to gank whatever heroes he can .
The villain is just crying foul over what is , admittedly , a very cheap tactic on the part of the researcher .
Further , what 's the point of even doing it ?
There 's no statistical correlation to that kill credited to you at all.What the researcher discovered was the side-effects of the e-peen .
Players like PvP , but players also like PvP to be credited to them somehow .
They like to show off that they 're the best .
World PvP is an old mechanic from a bygone era , PvP is decided in duels , matched games , or arena style matches .
Look at World of Warcraft , World PvP on PvP servers does n't really happen .
Most of the PvP is duels outside capital cities between players of the same faction , or done in battlegrounds or arena , not random world PvP.Why has this happened ?
Why has world PvP declined in WoW and other MMOs ?
I propose that it 's due to the rise of arranged PvP , as well as the the more frequent occurrence of the grind .
Developers have put highly desirable gear , enchantments , or other things into a grind that requires time to be spent in a PvP area .
In WoW , I think a rather interesting state has been created .
There 's a mutual respect that seems to hold most of the time that Alliance and Horde do n't attack people in world PvP .
From a lore perspective , I think this fits in perfectly .
There 's a tenuous truce between the Alliance and Horde .
Players not attacking each other in a way pay homage to that truce , but once one player breaks that truce , it seems that every Alliance and Horde nearby swing in and start fighting .
Guilds get involved , and it can get potentially to the point that one side just decimates the other .
It seems very true to the lore of WoW.But the reality is that players realize that the other faction is going through the same annoying grind that you are .
You do n't engage in PvP because you do n't want to draw down the wrath of the opposing faction making it annoying/difficult/near impossible for you to continue that grind.Of course , all of that is thrown to the wind if he was playing on one of the unofficial RP servers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe the common courtesy is to not PvP players who are in PvP zones working on badges that aren't directly related to PvP.
Of note is Recluse's Victory.
Villains don't PvP heroes who are trying to kill Lord Recluse, Captain Mako, Black Scorpion, Scirocco, and Ghost Widow, and Heroes extend the same courtesy to Villains trying to kill Statesman, Synapse, Sister Psyche, Positron, Back Alley Brawler, and Manticore.
There's just basically not enough people that ever engage in PvP zones, at least on the servers I was on, to be able to have enough players to kill the AV characters and fend of PvPers at the same time.
Essentially due to a degradation of player base numbers, a portion of the game has becomes unplayable if everyone played within the rules.What the researcher was doing was significantly different though.
Villains were, for whatever reason, skulking about the Hero base in a PvP region.
As far as I recall, there is no reason to be skulking around the enemies base.
There's no objectives at it, there's open communication between villains and heroes so that duels can be arranged, so why is a Villain there?
To me that's an open sign that the villain is looking to gank whatever heroes he can.
The villain is just crying foul over what is, admittedly, a very cheap tactic on the part of the researcher.
Further, what's the point of even doing it?
There's no statistical correlation to that kill credited to you at all.What the researcher discovered was the side-effects of the e-peen.
Players like PvP, but players also like PvP to be credited to them somehow.
They like to show off that they're the best.
World PvP is an old mechanic from a bygone era, PvP is decided in duels, matched games, or arena style matches.
Look at World of Warcraft, World PvP on PvP servers doesn't really happen.
Most of the PvP is duels outside capital cities between players of the same faction, or done in battlegrounds or arena, not random world PvP.Why has this happened?
Why has world PvP declined in WoW and other MMOs?
I propose that it's due to the rise of arranged PvP, as well as the the more frequent occurrence of the grind.
Developers have put highly desirable gear, enchantments, or other things into a grind that requires time to be spent in a PvP area.
In WoW, I think a rather interesting state has been created.
There's a mutual respect that seems to hold most of the time that Alliance and Horde don't attack people in world PvP.
From a lore perspective, I think this fits in perfectly.
There's a tenuous truce between the Alliance and Horde.
Players not attacking each other in a way pay homage to that truce, but once one player breaks that truce, it seems that every Alliance and Horde nearby swing in and start fighting.
Guilds get involved, and it can get potentially to the point that one side just decimates the other.
It seems very true to the lore of WoW.But the reality is that players realize that the other faction is going through the same annoying grind that you are.
You don't engage in PvP because you don't want to draw down the wrath of the opposing faction making it annoying/difficult/near impossible for you to continue that grind.Of course, all of that is thrown to the wind if he was playing on one of the unofficial RP servers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602945</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600599</id>
	<title>Uhm..... OK...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246879200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Jackson banter is more news worthy than a troll calling himself a researcher. Get a life!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Jackson banter is more news worthy than a troll calling himself a researcher .
Get a life !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Jackson banter is more news worthy than a troll calling himself a researcher.
Get a life!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609535</id>
	<title>Re:I think this experiment illustrates quite clear</title>
	<author>Vee Schade</author>
	<datestamp>1246986840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>one of the reasons why there will never be a true Democracy.  The elite in every society tells the commoner and new initiate what to think, and for the most part they fall in line.</p></div><p>I think you're confusing "democracy" with "aristocracy".  Ultimately, however, "democracy" is "mob rule", where the voting majority gets to dictate to the voting minority (which I think you're actually driving at).  In contrast, the US is a "democratic republic", where the "mob's" voted representatives do the dictating (*cough* presumably in line with wishes of their constituency *cough*).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>one of the reasons why there will never be a true Democracy .
The elite in every society tells the commoner and new initiate what to think , and for the most part they fall in line.I think you 're confusing " democracy " with " aristocracy " .
Ultimately , however , " democracy " is " mob rule " , where the voting majority gets to dictate to the voting minority ( which I think you 're actually driving at ) .
In contrast , the US is a " democratic republic " , where the " mob 's " voted representatives do the dictating ( * cough * presumably in line with wishes of their constituency * cough * ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>one of the reasons why there will never be a true Democracy.
The elite in every society tells the commoner and new initiate what to think, and for the most part they fall in line.I think you're confusing "democracy" with "aristocracy".
Ultimately, however, "democracy" is "mob rule", where the voting majority gets to dictate to the voting minority (which I think you're actually driving at).
In contrast, the US is a "democratic republic", where the "mob's" voted representatives do the dictating (*cough* presumably in line with wishes of their constituency *cough*).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28606957</id>
	<title>Re:Not Research</title>
	<author>Alzheimers</author>
	<datestamp>1246976940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Damnit, now I'm going to have the hook from <i>Nuthin' but a "G" Thang</i> stuck in my head all day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Damnit , now I 'm going to have the hook from Nuthin ' but a " G " Thang stuck in my head all day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damnit, now I'm going to have the hook from Nuthin' but a "G" Thang stuck in my head all day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602667</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600661</id>
	<title>It's a matter of perspective.</title>
	<author>jhcaocf197912</author>
	<datestamp>1246879560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think players in City of Heroes wanted conformity, instead competing for individual ambition like in EVE Online.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think players in City of Heroes wanted conformity , instead competing for individual ambition like in EVE Online .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think players in City of Heroes wanted conformity, instead competing for individual ambition like in EVE Online.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600559</id>
	<title>Not trolling</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246879020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>This summary seemed very biased, cherry picking out sections that made it seem like the Professor played outside of the intended purposes of the game by saying he avoided 'custom sets'.  After reading the article it seems to me he played it exactly how anyone who had purchased that game would expect to play it.  He chose a side, in his case hero, and set out to do battle against other people who had chosen the side of villian.  I am not familiar with the game, but it would seem to me that would be the obvious way in which to play the game and how it was meant.  From the article the professor says both heroes and villians sat around chatting and only going against computer opponents, which would seem to sort of defeat the purpose of a game that lets you choose a side and everyone has this choice.  I know if I had picked up this game I would be pretty pissed if I started playing it just to realize I was only there to be buddy buddy with everyone no matter their affiliation and only go after those designated as computer threats.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This summary seemed very biased , cherry picking out sections that made it seem like the Professor played outside of the intended purposes of the game by saying he avoided 'custom sets' .
After reading the article it seems to me he played it exactly how anyone who had purchased that game would expect to play it .
He chose a side , in his case hero , and set out to do battle against other people who had chosen the side of villian .
I am not familiar with the game , but it would seem to me that would be the obvious way in which to play the game and how it was meant .
From the article the professor says both heroes and villians sat around chatting and only going against computer opponents , which would seem to sort of defeat the purpose of a game that lets you choose a side and everyone has this choice .
I know if I had picked up this game I would be pretty pissed if I started playing it just to realize I was only there to be buddy buddy with everyone no matter their affiliation and only go after those designated as computer threats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This summary seemed very biased, cherry picking out sections that made it seem like the Professor played outside of the intended purposes of the game by saying he avoided 'custom sets'.
After reading the article it seems to me he played it exactly how anyone who had purchased that game would expect to play it.
He chose a side, in his case hero, and set out to do battle against other people who had chosen the side of villian.
I am not familiar with the game, but it would seem to me that would be the obvious way in which to play the game and how it was meant.
From the article the professor says both heroes and villians sat around chatting and only going against computer opponents, which would seem to sort of defeat the purpose of a game that lets you choose a side and everyone has this choice.
I know if I had picked up this game I would be pretty pissed if I started playing it just to realize I was only there to be buddy buddy with everyone no matter their affiliation and only go after those designated as computer threats.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603411</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Fred Ferrigno</author>
	<datestamp>1246896660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Absolutely not, he was playing as any newcomer would. I know my immediate impression would be: "An arena where the forces of good and evil do battle in order to see who's the best? Sounds like a blast! Wait, all they do is talk to each other and have their robots fight? What the fuck?"</p></div><p>He <i>was</i> a newcomer, but not for long. After his initial, obviously understandable reaction, it was politely explained to him that the community consensus differed from the official rules. The developers are not God and their rules are not perfect or beyond question. He doesn't like the way other people play, so he is naturally disappointed, as others are disappointed in the way he plays. The human, social way to resolve the conflict is to seek to change the consensus through persuasion rather than antagonizing people who disagree with you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Absolutely not , he was playing as any newcomer would .
I know my immediate impression would be : " An arena where the forces of good and evil do battle in order to see who 's the best ?
Sounds like a blast !
Wait , all they do is talk to each other and have their robots fight ?
What the fuck ?
" He was a newcomer , but not for long .
After his initial , obviously understandable reaction , it was politely explained to him that the community consensus differed from the official rules .
The developers are not God and their rules are not perfect or beyond question .
He does n't like the way other people play , so he is naturally disappointed , as others are disappointed in the way he plays .
The human , social way to resolve the conflict is to seek to change the consensus through persuasion rather than antagonizing people who disagree with you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Absolutely not, he was playing as any newcomer would.
I know my immediate impression would be: "An arena where the forces of good and evil do battle in order to see who's the best?
Sounds like a blast!
Wait, all they do is talk to each other and have their robots fight?
What the fuck?
"He was a newcomer, but not for long.
After his initial, obviously understandable reaction, it was politely explained to him that the community consensus differed from the official rules.
The developers are not God and their rules are not perfect or beyond question.
He doesn't like the way other people play, so he is naturally disappointed, as others are disappointed in the way he plays.
The human, social way to resolve the conflict is to seek to change the consensus through persuasion rather than antagonizing people who disagree with you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605921</id>
	<title>Re:I think this experiment illustrates quite clear</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1246969500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, the reason that pure democracies don't work is kind of the opposite: Groups of people (the majority, not the "elite") end up voting themselves money at the expense of the minority. Happens every time. The "elite" don't stand a chance in a pure democracy. But it doesn't work any better than an oligarchy, anyway. They both suck.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , the reason that pure democracies do n't work is kind of the opposite : Groups of people ( the majority , not the " elite " ) end up voting themselves money at the expense of the minority .
Happens every time .
The " elite " do n't stand a chance in a pure democracy .
But it does n't work any better than an oligarchy , anyway .
They both suck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, the reason that pure democracies don't work is kind of the opposite: Groups of people (the majority, not the "elite") end up voting themselves money at the expense of the minority.
Happens every time.
The "elite" don't stand a chance in a pure democracy.
But it doesn't work any better than an oligarchy, anyway.
They both suck.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609019</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246984920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.</p></div><p>The society you speak of is exactly the one he set out to investigate.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules ' , and get used to living in a society.The society you speak of is exactly the one he set out to investigate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.The society you speak of is exactly the one he set out to investigate.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600983</id>
	<title>City of Heroes and EVE</title>
	<author>W.Mandamus</author>
	<datestamp>1246881180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hum in City of Heroes members of the two player created faction hang out in the battle zone chatting.

In EVE members of the player created factions lie, steal, infiltrate each others message boards, ect.

I think this researcher needs to play some other games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hum in City of Heroes members of the two player created faction hang out in the battle zone chatting .
In EVE members of the player created factions lie , steal , infiltrate each others message boards , ect .
I think this researcher needs to play some other games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hum in City of Heroes members of the two player created faction hang out in the battle zone chatting.
In EVE members of the player created factions lie, steal, infiltrate each others message boards, ect.
I think this researcher needs to play some other games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602291</id>
	<title>Re:Not trolling ..... well ....</title>
	<author>daryl\_and\_daryl</author>
	<datestamp>1246888140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went against the 'rules' of slashdot and RTFA and TFC [comments] that were posted. Some of the comments seemed to be balanced in what they were saying. I do not play the game so some of my terms may be wrong.</p><p>A number of the posters said that what what he did while 'by the rules' went well outside of the bounds of reasonable. In the case of teleporting to the robotic firing line, it seems that the robots are protecting a DMZ of sorts, designed to protect players until the are ready to go do battle. If you appear in the area, ready to do battle, you die. No skill, no real effort - the same result for everyone. It seems that it is analogous to a 'loophole' in the rules. Loopholes in the law are completely legal, simply unintended. They comply with the letter of the law, but not the spirit. Or perhaps a 'technicality' of the legal process, if a murderer is released because of a technicality, they are free, they are, in the eyes of the law - not guilty. To see this as a car analogy, It is legal to drive at 5 MPH in a 35 MPH zone, but some will complain, especially if the road is 10 miles long.</p><p>He was not to skilled to be run off, and what does that mean anyway. It seems he died, and died often. And he only played on one of 15+ servers.</p><p>It seems he was a 'script kiddie' - who thought that running the script was the same as finding the exploit. And then he insisted in sending messages boasting of his skills.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went against the 'rules ' of slashdot and RTFA and TFC [ comments ] that were posted .
Some of the comments seemed to be balanced in what they were saying .
I do not play the game so some of my terms may be wrong.A number of the posters said that what what he did while 'by the rules ' went well outside of the bounds of reasonable .
In the case of teleporting to the robotic firing line , it seems that the robots are protecting a DMZ of sorts , designed to protect players until the are ready to go do battle .
If you appear in the area , ready to do battle , you die .
No skill , no real effort - the same result for everyone .
It seems that it is analogous to a 'loophole ' in the rules .
Loopholes in the law are completely legal , simply unintended .
They comply with the letter of the law , but not the spirit .
Or perhaps a 'technicality ' of the legal process , if a murderer is released because of a technicality , they are free , they are , in the eyes of the law - not guilty .
To see this as a car analogy , It is legal to drive at 5 MPH in a 35 MPH zone , but some will complain , especially if the road is 10 miles long.He was not to skilled to be run off , and what does that mean anyway .
It seems he died , and died often .
And he only played on one of 15 + servers.It seems he was a 'script kiddie ' - who thought that running the script was the same as finding the exploit .
And then he insisted in sending messages boasting of his skills .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went against the 'rules' of slashdot and RTFA and TFC [comments] that were posted.
Some of the comments seemed to be balanced in what they were saying.
I do not play the game so some of my terms may be wrong.A number of the posters said that what what he did while 'by the rules' went well outside of the bounds of reasonable.
In the case of teleporting to the robotic firing line, it seems that the robots are protecting a DMZ of sorts, designed to protect players until the are ready to go do battle.
If you appear in the area, ready to do battle, you die.
No skill, no real effort - the same result for everyone.
It seems that it is analogous to a 'loophole' in the rules.
Loopholes in the law are completely legal, simply unintended.
They comply with the letter of the law, but not the spirit.
Or perhaps a 'technicality' of the legal process, if a murderer is released because of a technicality, they are free, they are, in the eyes of the law - not guilty.
To see this as a car analogy, It is legal to drive at 5 MPH in a 35 MPH zone, but some will complain, especially if the road is 10 miles long.He was not to skilled to be run off, and what does that mean anyway.
It seems he died, and died often.
And he only played on one of 15+ servers.It seems he was a 'script kiddie' - who thought that running the script was the same as finding the exploit.
And then he insisted in sending messages boasting of his skills.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28627353</id>
	<title>RPG vs. Action games</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247086020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe all this conundrum is a result of the mentality behind MMORPG players. As some other posters mentioned, they use PvP zones as chatrooms and pretty much don't engage in conflict. RPG (MM or not) players seek more of an interactive experience that involves exploration, deep stories and character interactions, which is encouraged by the games' mechanics. It's more of a passive gameform, at least when compared to sports or action multiplayer games where the point is pure competition and fast reflexes, and where insults fly around like nobody's business and it's in good taste to hump a fallen player's corpse.</p><p>This collective mindset makes situations like griefers, teamkillers, ragequitters and the like much more scarce, naturally resulting in lots of anxiety from people not used to such an hostile environment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe all this conundrum is a result of the mentality behind MMORPG players .
As some other posters mentioned , they use PvP zones as chatrooms and pretty much do n't engage in conflict .
RPG ( MM or not ) players seek more of an interactive experience that involves exploration , deep stories and character interactions , which is encouraged by the games ' mechanics .
It 's more of a passive gameform , at least when compared to sports or action multiplayer games where the point is pure competition and fast reflexes , and where insults fly around like nobody 's business and it 's in good taste to hump a fallen player 's corpse.This collective mindset makes situations like griefers , teamkillers , ragequitters and the like much more scarce , naturally resulting in lots of anxiety from people not used to such an hostile environment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe all this conundrum is a result of the mentality behind MMORPG players.
As some other posters mentioned, they use PvP zones as chatrooms and pretty much don't engage in conflict.
RPG (MM or not) players seek more of an interactive experience that involves exploration, deep stories and character interactions, which is encouraged by the games' mechanics.
It's more of a passive gameform, at least when compared to sports or action multiplayer games where the point is pure competition and fast reflexes, and where insults fly around like nobody's business and it's in good taste to hump a fallen player's corpse.This collective mindset makes situations like griefers, teamkillers, ragequitters and the like much more scarce, naturally resulting in lots of anxiety from people not used to such an hostile environment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601991</id>
	<title>Help me!  I read some of his papers!</title>
	<author>jvv62</author>
	<datestamp>1246886520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This person likes to throw stones at frogs to see them jump. <a href="http://www.masscomm.loyno.edu/~dmyers/F99\%20classes/Myers\_IEC2005\_BadPlay.pdf" title="loyno.edu" rel="nofollow"> One example </a> [loyno.edu] that struck me as an indicator:<blockquote><div><p> Here I examine the semiotic form of some common and conventionally accepted notions of "bad play"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... I will, of course, not attempt to give &#226;oebad&#226; any sort of formal definition</p></div> </blockquote><p>

So he does a formal semiotic analysis of an undefined category of acts.  Hmmm.

Maybe getting an endowed professorship is easier than I thought.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This person likes to throw stones at frogs to see them jump .
One example [ loyno.edu ] that struck me as an indicator : Here I examine the semiotic form of some common and conventionally accepted notions of " bad play " ... I will , of course , not attempt to give   oebad   any sort of formal definition So he does a formal semiotic analysis of an undefined category of acts .
Hmmm . Maybe getting an endowed professorship is easier than I thought .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This person likes to throw stones at frogs to see them jump.
One example  [loyno.edu] that struck me as an indicator: Here I examine the semiotic form of some common and conventionally accepted notions of "bad play" ... I will, of course, not attempt to give âoebadâ any sort of formal definition 

So he does a formal semiotic analysis of an undefined category of acts.
Hmmm.

Maybe getting an endowed professorship is easier than I thought.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602911</id>
	<title>Re:This reveals a problem in the game's rules...</title>
	<author>demi</author>
	<datestamp>1246893300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks for pointing this out. I also don't know <i>City of Heroes</i> very well, but it seems like there's a need for an OOC zone and a PVP zone that are separate, as exists in almost all of the multiplayer games I've played (admittedly, all MUDs and MUSHes, no graphical MMORPGs). Similarly, if there were a single opponent-beating tactic like Twixt's, that points to a mechanical problem with game balance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for pointing this out .
I also do n't know City of Heroes very well , but it seems like there 's a need for an OOC zone and a PVP zone that are separate , as exists in almost all of the multiplayer games I 've played ( admittedly , all MUDs and MUSHes , no graphical MMORPGs ) .
Similarly , if there were a single opponent-beating tactic like Twixt 's , that points to a mechanical problem with game balance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for pointing this out.
I also don't know City of Heroes very well, but it seems like there's a need for an OOC zone and a PVP zone that are separate, as exists in almost all of the multiplayer games I've played (admittedly, all MUDs and MUSHes, no graphical MMORPGs).
Similarly, if there were a single opponent-beating tactic like Twixt's, that points to a mechanical problem with game balance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600851</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28613627</id>
	<title>Re:NCSoft do not make the rules.</title>
	<author>an unsound mind</author>
	<datestamp>1246959720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They can reply with the same tactic - but if you're already the level you want, it does nothing. And just killing him... also does nothing, because there's not meant to be a death penalty.</p><p>So yes, the game is broken. He also went out of his way to find the perfect exploit to not advance his character but delay others.</p><p>And then ragequit after the devs patched it, complaining about how it isn't fun anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They can reply with the same tactic - but if you 're already the level you want , it does nothing .
And just killing him... also does nothing , because there 's not meant to be a death penalty.So yes , the game is broken .
He also went out of his way to find the perfect exploit to not advance his character but delay others.And then ragequit after the devs patched it , complaining about how it is n't fun anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They can reply with the same tactic - but if you're already the level you want, it does nothing.
And just killing him... also does nothing, because there's not meant to be a death penalty.So yes, the game is broken.
He also went out of his way to find the perfect exploit to not advance his character but delay others.And then ragequit after the devs patched it, complaining about how it isn't fun anymore.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601807</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604767</id>
	<title>If this was anthropology</title>
	<author>pfafrich</author>
	<datestamp>1246998180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If this guy was an normal anthropologist studying some remote tribe he would be hauled before an ethics committee and expelled from university for this sort of behaviour. The field of anthropology has spent over a century establishing research methods for studying cultures. As a rule the best way to observe is to have as small an impact as possible so you see how the culture really behave. Effects where a culture modify its behaviour due to the presence of a researcher are common and a big barrier to objectivity. By provoking you get the abnormal behaviour so its not really good research.
<p>
Is there really a difference between virtual world and real cultures. Should not the same ethics apply when studying either?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If this guy was an normal anthropologist studying some remote tribe he would be hauled before an ethics committee and expelled from university for this sort of behaviour .
The field of anthropology has spent over a century establishing research methods for studying cultures .
As a rule the best way to observe is to have as small an impact as possible so you see how the culture really behave .
Effects where a culture modify its behaviour due to the presence of a researcher are common and a big barrier to objectivity .
By provoking you get the abnormal behaviour so its not really good research .
Is there really a difference between virtual world and real cultures .
Should not the same ethics apply when studying either ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this guy was an normal anthropologist studying some remote tribe he would be hauled before an ethics committee and expelled from university for this sort of behaviour.
The field of anthropology has spent over a century establishing research methods for studying cultures.
As a rule the best way to observe is to have as small an impact as possible so you see how the culture really behave.
Effects where a culture modify its behaviour due to the presence of a researcher are common and a big barrier to objectivity.
By provoking you get the abnormal behaviour so its not really good research.
Is there really a difference between virtual world and real cultures.
Should not the same ethics apply when studying either?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600639</id>
	<title>Well duh...</title>
	<author>Pyrion</author>
	<datestamp>1246879380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>MMOs are nothing but overglorified IRC clients.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MMOs are nothing but overglorified IRC clients .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MMOs are nothing but overglorified IRC clients.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602689</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Jeff DeMaagd</author>
	<datestamp>1246891500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On reflection, your examples don't fit at all.  It's like someone builds a road for vehicles, and then everyone uses sets up for picnic *on the road* and getting mad at someone that tries to actually go down that road with a vehicle.  This "3am blaring bass" doesn't compare.</p><p>A widely accepted mental illness is still a widely accepted mental illness.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On reflection , your examples do n't fit at all .
It 's like someone builds a road for vehicles , and then everyone uses sets up for picnic * on the road * and getting mad at someone that tries to actually go down that road with a vehicle .
This " 3am blaring bass " does n't compare.A widely accepted mental illness is still a widely accepted mental illness .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On reflection, your examples don't fit at all.
It's like someone builds a road for vehicles, and then everyone uses sets up for picnic *on the road* and getting mad at someone that tries to actually go down that road with a vehicle.
This "3am blaring bass" doesn't compare.A widely accepted mental illness is still a widely accepted mental illness.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601725</id>
	<title>Re:Griefer is reviled</title>
	<author>vipz</author>
	<datestamp>1246885080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>More surprising to me was that in CoH/V PvP is not played as described.  I play WoW, on both PvP and carebear servers, and boy do I get ganked whenever I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time.  There is no such "polite agreement" between Ally and Horde in WoW.  How did one get established in CoH/V?</p></div><p>In CoH, players of opposing factions can talk to each other.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>More surprising to me was that in CoH/V PvP is not played as described .
I play WoW , on both PvP and carebear servers , and boy do I get ganked whenever I 'm in the wrong place at the wrong time .
There is no such " polite agreement " between Ally and Horde in WoW .
How did one get established in CoH/V ? In CoH , players of opposing factions can talk to each other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More surprising to me was that in CoH/V PvP is not played as described.
I play WoW, on both PvP and carebear servers, and boy do I get ganked whenever I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time.
There is no such "polite agreement" between Ally and Horde in WoW.
How did one get established in CoH/V?In CoH, players of opposing factions can talk to each other.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601257</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602945</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246893540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't disagree with your point, so I'm going to nitpick to prove my own point:<br><i>He was using the game's equivalent of violent force to tell people how to play the game and not respecting people when they said that they didn't like playing the way he did. Nobody likes someone who goes around ganking people for "playing wrong."</i></p><p>No. He was being a good guy who beat up the bad guys; the ultimate super hero fantasy. Personally, I'm utterly <i>shocked</i> and flabbergasted that people flagged for PvP or in a PvP area would cry that PvP had occurred. It goes against everything I know and believe for PvP fans to whine and cry over any one player or detail. All sarcasm aside, I don't think, at any point, did he threaten any good characters, nor did he take or threaten any action against the players of the "evil" characters. As far as I understand the article, he didn't try to make anyone play his way, he just played the way he wanted to. It was the players who, if you'll forgive the hyperbole, had heart attacks over clusters of pixels.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't disagree with your point , so I 'm going to nitpick to prove my own point : He was using the game 's equivalent of violent force to tell people how to play the game and not respecting people when they said that they did n't like playing the way he did .
Nobody likes someone who goes around ganking people for " playing wrong. " No .
He was being a good guy who beat up the bad guys ; the ultimate super hero fantasy .
Personally , I 'm utterly shocked and flabbergasted that people flagged for PvP or in a PvP area would cry that PvP had occurred .
It goes against everything I know and believe for PvP fans to whine and cry over any one player or detail .
All sarcasm aside , I do n't think , at any point , did he threaten any good characters , nor did he take or threaten any action against the players of the " evil " characters .
As far as I understand the article , he did n't try to make anyone play his way , he just played the way he wanted to .
It was the players who , if you 'll forgive the hyperbole , had heart attacks over clusters of pixels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't disagree with your point, so I'm going to nitpick to prove my own point:He was using the game's equivalent of violent force to tell people how to play the game and not respecting people when they said that they didn't like playing the way he did.
Nobody likes someone who goes around ganking people for "playing wrong."No.
He was being a good guy who beat up the bad guys; the ultimate super hero fantasy.
Personally, I'm utterly shocked and flabbergasted that people flagged for PvP or in a PvP area would cry that PvP had occurred.
It goes against everything I know and believe for PvP fans to whine and cry over any one player or detail.
All sarcasm aside, I don't think, at any point, did he threaten any good characters, nor did he take or threaten any action against the players of the "evil" characters.
As far as I understand the article, he didn't try to make anyone play his way, he just played the way he wanted to.
It was the players who, if you'll forgive the hyperbole, had heart attacks over clusters of pixels.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28613437</id>
	<title>Clarification about PvP</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246959000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One thing is being missed here that needs to be clarified.</p><p>PvP in City of Heroes is an afterthought. The game didn't have PvP for the entire first year it is existed. Although the article is titled "'City of Heroes' character 'Twixt' becomes game's most hated outcast courtesy of Loyola professor" a more accurate one would be "Game Addicted Professor Ticks Off 50 PvPers on Freedom Server." I doubt if more than a third of City of Heroes players have even seen PvP, let alone participated in it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One thing is being missed here that needs to be clarified.PvP in City of Heroes is an afterthought .
The game did n't have PvP for the entire first year it is existed .
Although the article is titled " 'City of Heroes ' character 'Twixt ' becomes game 's most hated outcast courtesy of Loyola professor " a more accurate one would be " Game Addicted Professor Ticks Off 50 PvPers on Freedom Server .
" I doubt if more than a third of City of Heroes players have even seen PvP , let alone participated in it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One thing is being missed here that needs to be clarified.PvP in City of Heroes is an afterthought.
The game didn't have PvP for the entire first year it is existed.
Although the article is titled "'City of Heroes' character 'Twixt' becomes game's most hated outcast courtesy of Loyola professor" a more accurate one would be "Game Addicted Professor Ticks Off 50 PvPers on Freedom Server.
" I doubt if more than a third of City of Heroes players have even seen PvP, let alone participated in it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28630193</id>
	<title>Re:Not Research</title>
	<author>pugugly</author>
	<datestamp>1247057760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I find it odd that the definition of 'Troll' is 'used a PvP play area in the way it was explicitly designed to be used'</p><p>Slandering the man in outside forums the OP is perfectly okay with.</p><p>Which used to be a symptom of being a Troll.</p><p>Interesting.</p><p>Pug</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I find it odd that the definition of 'Troll ' is 'used a PvP play area in the way it was explicitly designed to be used'Slandering the man in outside forums the OP is perfectly okay with.Which used to be a symptom of being a Troll.Interesting.Pug</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find it odd that the definition of 'Troll' is 'used a PvP play area in the way it was explicitly designed to be used'Slandering the man in outside forums the OP is perfectly okay with.Which used to be a symptom of being a Troll.Interesting.Pug</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600477</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600919</id>
	<title>Same experence with on-line poker...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246880760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have similar experiences with on-line poker. If I'm in a heads up and have a lot more chips than my opponent, ill go all-in with any cards. I figure I can take the risk of doubling him up a few times to finish the game quick. If I go all in three times in a row I usually suck out at least once, but people go crazy when you do and turn rather nasty. They get especially offended when they lose because the other person played 'stupidly' and still won. I think its ridiculous that people start lobbing insults.<br>If people pay good money to play a game and they don't break the rules- they they can play that game however they want in my opinion. Its childish to ostracise someone over it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have similar experiences with on-line poker .
If I 'm in a heads up and have a lot more chips than my opponent , ill go all-in with any cards .
I figure I can take the risk of doubling him up a few times to finish the game quick .
If I go all in three times in a row I usually suck out at least once , but people go crazy when you do and turn rather nasty .
They get especially offended when they lose because the other person played 'stupidly ' and still won .
I think its ridiculous that people start lobbing insults.If people pay good money to play a game and they do n't break the rules- they they can play that game however they want in my opinion .
Its childish to ostracise someone over it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have similar experiences with on-line poker.
If I'm in a heads up and have a lot more chips than my opponent, ill go all-in with any cards.
I figure I can take the risk of doubling him up a few times to finish the game quick.
If I go all in three times in a row I usually suck out at least once, but people go crazy when you do and turn rather nasty.
They get especially offended when they lose because the other person played 'stupidly' and still won.
I think its ridiculous that people start lobbing insults.If people pay good money to play a game and they don't break the rules- they they can play that game however they want in my opinion.
Its childish to ostracise someone over it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602887</id>
	<title>I loled</title>
	<author>Vexorian</author>
	<datestamp>1246893060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>1. Get a phd.<br>
2. Play MMOs<br>
3. If your character becomes hated due to your lossy gaming, CALL IT PART OF YOUR REASEARCH!<br>
4 ????<br>
5. Profit!</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Get a phd .
2. Play MMOs 3 .
If your character becomes hated due to your lossy gaming , CALL IT PART OF YOUR REASEARCH !
4 ? ? ? ?
5. Profit !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Get a phd.
2. Play MMOs
3.
If your character becomes hated due to your lossy gaming, CALL IT PART OF YOUR REASEARCH!
4 ????
5. Profit!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28651999</id>
	<title>This is nothing new - CoH is a carebear game</title>
	<author>lusiphur69</author>
	<datestamp>1247250540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My friend who played CoH/V for some time made a villain and also used to use the teleport foe power to bring people to the drones to get killed and indebted. I instead used a Stalker (stealth hitter with big opening attack) during the brief time I played.</p><p>One constant was the amount of whining in-game. Most PvP MMOs dont allow the two enemy sides to talk to one another to lessen this kind of nerd-rage trash talk, but COH does, for good or for ill.</p><p>People would whine when I attacked them (note: with no teleport abilites) because they were just in the zone to 'quest'. Well, it has big warning signs all over it when you enter, and I came here to bash some heroes, not drink tea and discuss politics.</p><p>So: in short, each game has a different culture. In WoW, if the character regularly used cheese tactics and ganked regularly, people might dislike him, but the playerbase as a whole is far more tough-skinned. Interestingly, the player base of CoH/V skews to an older set, perhaps one not inured to getting defeated in online games by countless hours of getting spawn killed in twitch shooters.</p><p>Nothing new here, CoH is a carebear game. Carebears dont like dying. Period.</p><p>Id rather he spent his time on EvE - that is a microcosm of real society and would have been far more interesting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My friend who played CoH/V for some time made a villain and also used to use the teleport foe power to bring people to the drones to get killed and indebted .
I instead used a Stalker ( stealth hitter with big opening attack ) during the brief time I played.One constant was the amount of whining in-game .
Most PvP MMOs dont allow the two enemy sides to talk to one another to lessen this kind of nerd-rage trash talk , but COH does , for good or for ill.People would whine when I attacked them ( note : with no teleport abilites ) because they were just in the zone to 'quest' .
Well , it has big warning signs all over it when you enter , and I came here to bash some heroes , not drink tea and discuss politics.So : in short , each game has a different culture .
In WoW , if the character regularly used cheese tactics and ganked regularly , people might dislike him , but the playerbase as a whole is far more tough-skinned .
Interestingly , the player base of CoH/V skews to an older set , perhaps one not inured to getting defeated in online games by countless hours of getting spawn killed in twitch shooters.Nothing new here , CoH is a carebear game .
Carebears dont like dying .
Period.Id rather he spent his time on EvE - that is a microcosm of real society and would have been far more interesting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My friend who played CoH/V for some time made a villain and also used to use the teleport foe power to bring people to the drones to get killed and indebted.
I instead used a Stalker (stealth hitter with big opening attack) during the brief time I played.One constant was the amount of whining in-game.
Most PvP MMOs dont allow the two enemy sides to talk to one another to lessen this kind of nerd-rage trash talk, but COH does, for good or for ill.People would whine when I attacked them (note: with no teleport abilites) because they were just in the zone to 'quest'.
Well, it has big warning signs all over it when you enter, and I came here to bash some heroes, not drink tea and discuss politics.So: in short, each game has a different culture.
In WoW, if the character regularly used cheese tactics and ganked regularly, people might dislike him, but the playerbase as a whole is far more tough-skinned.
Interestingly, the player base of CoH/V skews to an older set, perhaps one not inured to getting defeated in online games by countless hours of getting spawn killed in twitch shooters.Nothing new here, CoH is a carebear game.
Carebears dont like dying.
Period.Id rather he spent his time on EvE - that is a microcosm of real society and would have been far more interesting.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601049</id>
	<title>Great man!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246881420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Trolls and cheaters in online games are kinda what made me quit. And yes, from people threatening to find and kill me FOR NO REASON, flying immortal enemies with all the best weapons...<br>Since I stopped, I've made something out of my life - finished college, got a decent job, great girlfriend, and lost those extra ponds. I thank those jerks every day!<br>But then, what works for me, might not work for you. You might not NEED a life!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Trolls and cheaters in online games are kinda what made me quit .
And yes , from people threatening to find and kill me FOR NO REASON , flying immortal enemies with all the best weapons...Since I stopped , I 've made something out of my life - finished college , got a decent job , great girlfriend , and lost those extra ponds .
I thank those jerks every day ! But then , what works for me , might not work for you .
You might not NEED a life !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Trolls and cheaters in online games are kinda what made me quit.
And yes, from people threatening to find and kill me FOR NO REASON, flying immortal enemies with all the best weapons...Since I stopped, I've made something out of my life - finished college, got a decent job, great girlfriend, and lost those extra ponds.
I thank those jerks every day!But then, what works for me, might not work for you.
You might not NEED a life!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600655</id>
	<title>Both sides of the mouth..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246879500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What seems weird is that he was upset that people were punishing behavior "out of the norm" on one hand, and on the other hand was touting that he was merely following the rules.  Huh?</p><p>The folks in the game creatively and organically decided to set up their own customs opposed to the rules - Twixt seems more like a street preacher who hates everyone because they don't follow the rules like he does.</p><p>Is he a cultural anthropologist (probably not, given that anthropologists are trained to work within the social framework of existing cultures as much as possible)?  If not, I'd LOVE to see a cultural anthropologist do a write up on what happened here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What seems weird is that he was upset that people were punishing behavior " out of the norm " on one hand , and on the other hand was touting that he was merely following the rules .
Huh ? The folks in the game creatively and organically decided to set up their own customs opposed to the rules - Twixt seems more like a street preacher who hates everyone because they do n't follow the rules like he does.Is he a cultural anthropologist ( probably not , given that anthropologists are trained to work within the social framework of existing cultures as much as possible ) ?
If not , I 'd LOVE to see a cultural anthropologist do a write up on what happened here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What seems weird is that he was upset that people were punishing behavior "out of the norm" on one hand, and on the other hand was touting that he was merely following the rules.
Huh?The folks in the game creatively and organically decided to set up their own customs opposed to the rules - Twixt seems more like a street preacher who hates everyone because they don't follow the rules like he does.Is he a cultural anthropologist (probably not, given that anthropologists are trained to work within the social framework of existing cultures as much as possible)?
If not, I'd LOVE to see a cultural anthropologist do a write up on what happened here.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600477</id>
	<title>Not Research</title>
	<author>sexconker</author>
	<datestamp>1246878600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This isn't research, this is trolling.<br>There is nothing novel about it.<br>There is nothing to be learned.<br>You're just being a dick.</p><p>Nobody give this fucker any research money, any PHD, or any book deals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't research , this is trolling.There is nothing novel about it.There is nothing to be learned.You 're just being a dick.Nobody give this fucker any research money , any PHD , or any book deals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't research, this is trolling.There is nothing novel about it.There is nothing to be learned.You're just being a dick.Nobody give this fucker any research money, any PHD, or any book deals.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601919</id>
	<title>Re:Was this ethical?</title>
	<author>Pyrion</author>
	<datestamp>1246886040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course it was with their consent. Nobody was forcing them to remain in the PvP zone with him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course it was with their consent .
Nobody was forcing them to remain in the PvP zone with him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course it was with their consent.
Nobody was forcing them to remain in the PvP zone with him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28607537</id>
	<title>PvP, RPvP, and RPvRP</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246979280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having occasionally played with, against, and as a RPing hero in CoH, the interesting view would have been if he had created a character with a personality within the game and played that character the same way.</p><p>If he had played as a British gentleman named "The Dapper Fellow" and developed a personality driven behavior that resulted in the same method of teleporting enemies into the line of fire, with in-character taunts and compliments, I doubt the behavior would have provoked such an intense response from the other PvP members.  However, then other characters would be free to find creative ways of dissuading The Dapper Fellow from his behavior ("Let's bring the fight to them!) while still protesting his behavior, but in a more controlled method.</p><p>As it was executed, he was simply a troll.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having occasionally played with , against , and as a RPing hero in CoH , the interesting view would have been if he had created a character with a personality within the game and played that character the same way.If he had played as a British gentleman named " The Dapper Fellow " and developed a personality driven behavior that resulted in the same method of teleporting enemies into the line of fire , with in-character taunts and compliments , I doubt the behavior would have provoked such an intense response from the other PvP members .
However , then other characters would be free to find creative ways of dissuading The Dapper Fellow from his behavior ( " Let 's bring the fight to them !
) while still protesting his behavior , but in a more controlled method.As it was executed , he was simply a troll .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having occasionally played with, against, and as a RPing hero in CoH, the interesting view would have been if he had created a character with a personality within the game and played that character the same way.If he had played as a British gentleman named "The Dapper Fellow" and developed a personality driven behavior that resulted in the same method of teleporting enemies into the line of fire, with in-character taunts and compliments, I doubt the behavior would have provoked such an intense response from the other PvP members.
However, then other characters would be free to find creative ways of dissuading The Dapper Fellow from his behavior ("Let's bring the fight to them!
) while still protesting his behavior, but in a more controlled method.As it was executed, he was simply a troll.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28734175</id>
	<title>Re:Not trolling</title>
	<author>rtechie</author>
	<datestamp>1247821320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He was deliberately trying to piss people off by using a rules exploit to instakill other players. He was ABSOLUTELY NOT "playing the game as intended". He was cheating, which is why groups of opposing players couldn't beat him. Again, HE WAS CHEATING AND USING AN EXPLOIT to grief other players by killing them over and over again. He didn't get any XP for this by the way, that should be a hint this was not intentional. This is NOT how the game was intended to be played, according to everyone except this asshole, including the devs who closed this exploit precisely because Twixt kept abusing it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He was deliberately trying to piss people off by using a rules exploit to instakill other players .
He was ABSOLUTELY NOT " playing the game as intended " .
He was cheating , which is why groups of opposing players could n't beat him .
Again , HE WAS CHEATING AND USING AN EXPLOIT to grief other players by killing them over and over again .
He did n't get any XP for this by the way , that should be a hint this was not intentional .
This is NOT how the game was intended to be played , according to everyone except this asshole , including the devs who closed this exploit precisely because Twixt kept abusing it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He was deliberately trying to piss people off by using a rules exploit to instakill other players.
He was ABSOLUTELY NOT "playing the game as intended".
He was cheating, which is why groups of opposing players couldn't beat him.
Again, HE WAS CHEATING AND USING AN EXPLOIT to grief other players by killing them over and over again.
He didn't get any XP for this by the way, that should be a hint this was not intentional.
This is NOT how the game was intended to be played, according to everyone except this asshole, including the devs who closed this exploit precisely because Twixt kept abusing it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28617581</id>
	<title>Re:What an ass...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246985820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>He wasn't even talking trash, for crying out loud!</p> </div><p>.<br>Bullshit. Twixt was/is a compete ass in every way. Ganking, cursing, insults, taunting, you name it, he did it.<br>.<br>Ganking/killing gets you disliked by the opposing team, being a dick gets you hated by everyone.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He was n't even talking trash , for crying out loud !
.Bullshit. Twixt was/is a compete ass in every way .
Ganking , cursing , insults , taunting , you name it , he did it..Ganking/killing gets you disliked by the opposing team , being a dick gets you hated by everyone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He wasn't even talking trash, for crying out loud!
.Bullshit. Twixt was/is a compete ass in every way.
Ganking, cursing, insults, taunting, you name it, he did it..Ganking/killing gets you disliked by the opposing team, being a dick gets you hated by everyone.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601347</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>pod</author>
	<datestamp>1246883100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.</p></div><p>It's not a "society", it's a game.</p><p>In real society, people do things you won't like all the time, and they are still "within the rules". Get used to it. YOu don't get to threaten their life.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules ' , and get used to living in a society.It 's not a " society " , it 's a game.In real society , people do things you wo n't like all the time , and they are still " within the rules " .
Get used to it .
YOu do n't get to threaten their life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.It's not a "society", it's a game.In real society, people do things you won't like all the time, and they are still "within the rules".
Get used to it.
YOu don't get to threaten their life.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609587</id>
	<title>Re:Carebears</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246987020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Idiot. Loser.</p><p>You're a self centered moron that believes you shape the world in your own vision.</p><p>The world is a better place without your type. You're what is commonly known as a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrant" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">tyrant.</a> [wikipedia.org] Really? +1 Insightful? How about -1000 douchebag.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Idiot .
Loser.You 're a self centered moron that believes you shape the world in your own vision.The world is a better place without your type .
You 're what is commonly known as a tyrant .
[ wikipedia.org ] Really ?
+ 1 Insightful ?
How about -1000 douchebag .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Idiot.
Loser.You're a self centered moron that believes you shape the world in your own vision.The world is a better place without your type.
You're what is commonly known as a tyrant.
[wikipedia.org] Really?
+1 Insightful?
How about -1000 douchebag.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603317</id>
	<title>"Not a member of the tribe"</title>
	<author>Rix</author>
	<datestamp>1246896060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It sounds to me like they made every attempt possible to invite him into the tribe, and yet he responded by consistently pissing on the campfire.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds to me like they made every attempt possible to invite him into the tribe , and yet he responded by consistently pissing on the campfire .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds to me like they made every attempt possible to invite him into the tribe, and yet he responded by consistently pissing on the campfire.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28608681</id>
	<title>Pot, kettle, black</title>
	<author>mythandros</author>
	<datestamp>1246983540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I see a lot of folks coming to the defense of the community of CoH players that found the researcher's apparently selfish refusal to follow generally accepted rules of in-game behavior reprehensible.  What I find interesting is that never are these comments couched in the acceptance that what the players later did (threats of real-life violence!) was equally as socially unacceptable.  If someone makes an appearance in my niche and rocks the boat, do I suddenly gain the right to pursue them out of my little niche and exact vengence -- physical violence -- against someone who did little more than frustrate me?  Look at the proportion of researcher stimulus to elicited community response.  This is clearly a case of abnormal psychology that needs to be studied.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I see a lot of folks coming to the defense of the community of CoH players that found the researcher 's apparently selfish refusal to follow generally accepted rules of in-game behavior reprehensible .
What I find interesting is that never are these comments couched in the acceptance that what the players later did ( threats of real-life violence !
) was equally as socially unacceptable .
If someone makes an appearance in my niche and rocks the boat , do I suddenly gain the right to pursue them out of my little niche and exact vengence -- physical violence -- against someone who did little more than frustrate me ?
Look at the proportion of researcher stimulus to elicited community response .
This is clearly a case of abnormal psychology that needs to be studied .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see a lot of folks coming to the defense of the community of CoH players that found the researcher's apparently selfish refusal to follow generally accepted rules of in-game behavior reprehensible.
What I find interesting is that never are these comments couched in the acceptance that what the players later did (threats of real-life violence!
) was equally as socially unacceptable.
If someone makes an appearance in my niche and rocks the boat, do I suddenly gain the right to pursue them out of my little niche and exact vengence -- physical violence -- against someone who did little more than frustrate me?
Look at the proportion of researcher stimulus to elicited community response.
This is clearly a case of abnormal psychology that needs to be studied.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601483</id>
	<title>What does the owner say?</title>
	<author>Valdrax</author>
	<datestamp>1246883820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Unfortunately, it's been taken over by people who are doing something else in it. The majority doesn't want to leave. The individual just wants to use the field for what it was built for.</p><p>So who's in the wrong there?</p></div><p>Whoever causes the most trouble for the people permitted by the owner of the field to use it.  If the company isn't clearing off the sunbathers, then the one-man baseball team is in the wrong.  If the company wanted the baseball field to be only used for baseball, then it's up to them to enforce that and not for one man to cause grief to a bunch of other people who are using the field in a permitted manner.</p><p>And it certainly wouldn't be the player's right to just start hitting balls into the middle of the field where people are lying, which is the closest equivalent to what Twixt was doing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately , it 's been taken over by people who are doing something else in it .
The majority does n't want to leave .
The individual just wants to use the field for what it was built for.So who 's in the wrong there ? Whoever causes the most trouble for the people permitted by the owner of the field to use it .
If the company is n't clearing off the sunbathers , then the one-man baseball team is in the wrong .
If the company wanted the baseball field to be only used for baseball , then it 's up to them to enforce that and not for one man to cause grief to a bunch of other people who are using the field in a permitted manner.And it certainly would n't be the player 's right to just start hitting balls into the middle of the field where people are lying , which is the closest equivalent to what Twixt was doing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately, it's been taken over by people who are doing something else in it.
The majority doesn't want to leave.
The individual just wants to use the field for what it was built for.So who's in the wrong there?Whoever causes the most trouble for the people permitted by the owner of the field to use it.
If the company isn't clearing off the sunbathers, then the one-man baseball team is in the wrong.
If the company wanted the baseball field to be only used for baseball, then it's up to them to enforce that and not for one man to cause grief to a bunch of other people who are using the field in a permitted manner.And it certainly wouldn't be the player's right to just start hitting balls into the middle of the field where people are lying, which is the closest equivalent to what Twixt was doing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600829</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602821</id>
	<title>Re:This reveals a problem in the game's rules...</title>
	<author>glodime</author>
	<datestamp>1246892580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...the Stanley Cup finals are now shown on a basic cable bicycle racing channel.</p></div><p>Are you talking about NBC?
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009\_Stanley\_Cup\_Finals#Television\_coverage" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009\_Stanley\_Cup\_Finals#Television\_coverage</a> [wikipedia.org]
<br> <br>
I know that this is getting way off-topic from the original story, but I would like to add...<br> <br>
The NBA seems to be losing interest to other sports like soccer (that's football to the rest of the world) and baseball within the USA.<br>
Maybe because their players are walking around with the ball (i.e. not dribbling) and place a premium on showing off versus playing defense
<br> <br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...or because normal people can't relate to the freakishly tall college dropouts that comprise at least 90\% of any NBA roster
<br> <br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...or that the largest immigrant population in the USA prefers other sports?
<br> <br>
The NBA is set apart from the NHL in that the NBA has difficulty cashing in on its popularity in other countries e.g. China. The NHL doesn't have a problem collecting revenue from Canadian fans. I think that the NHL knows that places like Dallas can support a hockey team but never be the most popular team in town.
<br> <br>
The NHL seems to be doing well financially overall. But it can use some tweaking of the season structure and rules. It seems clear that the NHL's best interest is in not canceling another season due to a "labor" dispute. I'd prefer it if they changed the regular season points ranking to eliminate the possibility of a team improving their rank from a loss (specifically, awarding 2 points for a win in regulation or overtime [with regular 6 on 6 play] and 1 point for a shootout win. Moving the season a few weeks earlier so the Finals will be played mid to late May I think would be an improvement.  Also Less interconference and more intradivisional games would be nice.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ...the Stanley Cup finals are now shown on a basic cable bicycle racing channel.Are you talking about NBC ?
http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009 \ _Stanley \ _Cup \ _Finals # Television \ _coverage [ wikipedia.org ] I know that this is getting way off-topic from the original story , but I would like to add.. . The NBA seems to be losing interest to other sports like soccer ( that 's football to the rest of the world ) and baseball within the USA .
Maybe because their players are walking around with the ball ( i.e .
not dribbling ) and place a premium on showing off versus playing defense ...or because normal people ca n't relate to the freakishly tall college dropouts that comprise at least 90 \ % of any NBA roster ...or that the largest immigrant population in the USA prefers other sports ?
The NBA is set apart from the NHL in that the NBA has difficulty cashing in on its popularity in other countries e.g .
China. The NHL does n't have a problem collecting revenue from Canadian fans .
I think that the NHL knows that places like Dallas can support a hockey team but never be the most popular team in town .
The NHL seems to be doing well financially overall .
But it can use some tweaking of the season structure and rules .
It seems clear that the NHL 's best interest is in not canceling another season due to a " labor " dispute .
I 'd prefer it if they changed the regular season points ranking to eliminate the possibility of a team improving their rank from a loss ( specifically , awarding 2 points for a win in regulation or overtime [ with regular 6 on 6 play ] and 1 point for a shootout win .
Moving the season a few weeks earlier so the Finals will be played mid to late May I think would be an improvement .
Also Less interconference and more intradivisional games would be nice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I ...the Stanley Cup finals are now shown on a basic cable bicycle racing channel.Are you talking about NBC?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009\_Stanley\_Cup\_Finals#Television\_coverage [wikipedia.org]
 
I know that this is getting way off-topic from the original story, but I would like to add... 
The NBA seems to be losing interest to other sports like soccer (that's football to the rest of the world) and baseball within the USA.
Maybe because their players are walking around with the ball (i.e.
not dribbling) and place a premium on showing off versus playing defense
  ...or because normal people can't relate to the freakishly tall college dropouts that comprise at least 90\% of any NBA roster
  ...or that the largest immigrant population in the USA prefers other sports?
The NBA is set apart from the NHL in that the NBA has difficulty cashing in on its popularity in other countries e.g.
China. The NHL doesn't have a problem collecting revenue from Canadian fans.
I think that the NHL knows that places like Dallas can support a hockey team but never be the most popular team in town.
The NHL seems to be doing well financially overall.
But it can use some tweaking of the season structure and rules.
It seems clear that the NHL's best interest is in not canceling another season due to a "labor" dispute.
I'd prefer it if they changed the regular season points ranking to eliminate the possibility of a team improving their rank from a loss (specifically, awarding 2 points for a win in regulation or overtime [with regular 6 on 6 play] and 1 point for a shootout win.
Moving the season a few weeks earlier so the Finals will be played mid to late May I think would be an improvement.
Also Less interconference and more intradivisional games would be nice.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600851</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600851</id>
	<title>This reveals a problem in the game's rules...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246880340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the sports world, there are many instances of coaches and players using strategies that, although effective, are bad for the game for one reason or another. Sports leagues that deal with this effectively, like the NBA, are doing OK. Leagues that do not, such as the NHL (sorry Canada), are circling the drain.

Once upon a time in basketball, teams started holding the ball for minutes at a time as soon as they got a lead. So, the NBA instituted a shot clock forcing the team to shoot the ball within 24 seconds.

As players got taller, coaches started camping 7-footers under the basket. So, a 3-second lane was added to forbid any player from standing under the basket for more than 3 seconds at a time. Years later, the 3-point line was introduced to increase the value of long-range shooting and encourage players not to all crowd around the basket.

The NHL started going down the tubes when teams like the New Jersey Devils used the horrendously boring "neutral zone trap" and "clutch-and-grab" defense to win Stanley Cups over more skilled and exciting teams. The NHL waited too long to do something about it, and as a result the Stanley Cup finals are now shown on a basic cable bicycle racing channel.

If legal play can ruin the game, the rules need to be changed. Pure and simple. You can't trust the players to "be nice."</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the sports world , there are many instances of coaches and players using strategies that , although effective , are bad for the game for one reason or another .
Sports leagues that deal with this effectively , like the NBA , are doing OK. Leagues that do not , such as the NHL ( sorry Canada ) , are circling the drain .
Once upon a time in basketball , teams started holding the ball for minutes at a time as soon as they got a lead .
So , the NBA instituted a shot clock forcing the team to shoot the ball within 24 seconds .
As players got taller , coaches started camping 7-footers under the basket .
So , a 3-second lane was added to forbid any player from standing under the basket for more than 3 seconds at a time .
Years later , the 3-point line was introduced to increase the value of long-range shooting and encourage players not to all crowd around the basket .
The NHL started going down the tubes when teams like the New Jersey Devils used the horrendously boring " neutral zone trap " and " clutch-and-grab " defense to win Stanley Cups over more skilled and exciting teams .
The NHL waited too long to do something about it , and as a result the Stanley Cup finals are now shown on a basic cable bicycle racing channel .
If legal play can ruin the game , the rules need to be changed .
Pure and simple .
You ca n't trust the players to " be nice .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the sports world, there are many instances of coaches and players using strategies that, although effective, are bad for the game for one reason or another.
Sports leagues that deal with this effectively, like the NBA, are doing OK. Leagues that do not, such as the NHL (sorry Canada), are circling the drain.
Once upon a time in basketball, teams started holding the ball for minutes at a time as soon as they got a lead.
So, the NBA instituted a shot clock forcing the team to shoot the ball within 24 seconds.
As players got taller, coaches started camping 7-footers under the basket.
So, a 3-second lane was added to forbid any player from standing under the basket for more than 3 seconds at a time.
Years later, the 3-point line was introduced to increase the value of long-range shooting and encourage players not to all crowd around the basket.
The NHL started going down the tubes when teams like the New Jersey Devils used the horrendously boring "neutral zone trap" and "clutch-and-grab" defense to win Stanley Cups over more skilled and exciting teams.
The NHL waited too long to do something about it, and as a result the Stanley Cup finals are now shown on a basic cable bicycle racing channel.
If legal play can ruin the game, the rules need to be changed.
Pure and simple.
You can't trust the players to "be nice.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602895</id>
	<title>Re:I think this experiment illustrates quite clear</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1246893180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>one of the reasons why there will never be a true Democracy.</i> </p><p>The true democracy defines its own rules. The initiate is there by invitation. The initiate is there to learn. He can be voted off the island.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>one of the reasons why there will never be a true Democracy .
The true democracy defines its own rules .
The initiate is there by invitation .
The initiate is there to learn .
He can be voted off the island .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>one of the reasons why there will never be a true Democracy.
The true democracy defines its own rules.
The initiate is there by invitation.
The initiate is there to learn.
He can be voted off the island.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600721</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246879740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like your suggestion:</p><blockquote><div><p>Perhaps as followup research he can start referring to people of other ethnicity using racial slurs.</p></div></blockquote><p>because it is entirely ridiculous and indicative of what the users (how can you call them players, when they ignore the intent of the game) are doing. Basically, he played the game (actually fighting villains) and was hated for it. Not because he was being vile or crude (indeed, completely contrary to what you suggest) but by violating game defeating "customs." Why the hell have a city full of heroes and villains, if the villains and heroes just idly chat and don't actually fight each other?</p><p>And when someone does play the game, the natives get pissy as all get out. Sounds like a bunch of crybabies inhabit those games if you ask me.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I like your suggestion : Perhaps as followup research he can start referring to people of other ethnicity using racial slurs.because it is entirely ridiculous and indicative of what the users ( how can you call them players , when they ignore the intent of the game ) are doing .
Basically , he played the game ( actually fighting villains ) and was hated for it .
Not because he was being vile or crude ( indeed , completely contrary to what you suggest ) but by violating game defeating " customs .
" Why the hell have a city full of heroes and villains , if the villains and heroes just idly chat and do n't actually fight each other ? And when someone does play the game , the natives get pissy as all get out .
Sounds like a bunch of crybabies inhabit those games if you ask me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like your suggestion:Perhaps as followup research he can start referring to people of other ethnicity using racial slurs.because it is entirely ridiculous and indicative of what the users (how can you call them players, when they ignore the intent of the game) are doing.
Basically, he played the game (actually fighting villains) and was hated for it.
Not because he was being vile or crude (indeed, completely contrary to what you suggest) but by violating game defeating "customs.
" Why the hell have a city full of heroes and villains, if the villains and heroes just idly chat and don't actually fight each other?And when someone does play the game, the natives get pissy as all get out.
Sounds like a bunch of crybabies inhabit those games if you ask me.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600549</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28612069</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246996680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>.....so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.</p></div><p>Yeah, no gays in these here parts. We're strictly straight up righteous folk.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>.....so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules ' , and get used to living in a society.Yeah , no gays in these here parts .
We 're strictly straight up righteous folk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> .....so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.Yeah, no gays in these here parts.
We're strictly straight up righteous folk.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605821</id>
	<title>No rewards for this kind of behaviour</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246968300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The drones in the hero safe zone are effectively invincible, and instantly kill any villain that comes close or is teleported close. Twixt's entire strategy was to exploit their presence.</p><p>While teleporting villains to the drones might have been within the rules, it was not sanctioned by the developers.</p><p>You can tell because it did not give him any kind of rewards. Developers tend to put rewards on things they want players to do, and it's a good way to determine how a game is intended to be played - the spirit, rather than the letter of the law.</p><p>TPing to the drones gives no XP. No cash. No rep. No items. No badges, bounty... NOTHING. He may have teleported them, but the drone carried out the kill. For all the hours he did this, he gained literally nothing. All he did was piss off people, and he knew this.</p><p>Griefer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The drones in the hero safe zone are effectively invincible , and instantly kill any villain that comes close or is teleported close .
Twixt 's entire strategy was to exploit their presence.While teleporting villains to the drones might have been within the rules , it was not sanctioned by the developers.You can tell because it did not give him any kind of rewards .
Developers tend to put rewards on things they want players to do , and it 's a good way to determine how a game is intended to be played - the spirit , rather than the letter of the law.TPing to the drones gives no XP .
No cash .
No rep. No items .
No badges , bounty... NOTHING. He may have teleported them , but the drone carried out the kill .
For all the hours he did this , he gained literally nothing .
All he did was piss off people , and he knew this.Griefer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The drones in the hero safe zone are effectively invincible, and instantly kill any villain that comes close or is teleported close.
Twixt's entire strategy was to exploit their presence.While teleporting villains to the drones might have been within the rules, it was not sanctioned by the developers.You can tell because it did not give him any kind of rewards.
Developers tend to put rewards on things they want players to do, and it's a good way to determine how a game is intended to be played - the spirit, rather than the letter of the law.TPing to the drones gives no XP.
No cash.
No rep. No items.
No badges, bounty... NOTHING. He may have teleported them, but the drone carried out the kill.
For all the hours he did this, he gained literally nothing.
All he did was piss off people, and he knew this.Griefer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601339</id>
	<title>Whoa Whoa Slow Down</title>
	<author>denmarkw00t</author>
	<datestamp>1246883100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Okay, so it seems that everyone has taken the headline's "Suprised When Players Hate Him" as fact, but I don't recall seeing that he was surprised, shocked, unnerved, or anything of the sort by their reaction.  Not only that, but he wasn't really trolling, he was playing the game - albeit by disregarding "customs" set up by the buddy buddy heroes and villains - as it was intended, but the article doesn't mention whether or not he harassed players.  Though, if I were a hero and saw a villain just chilling, chatting it up, I'd probably not waste much time in kicking his/her ass.<br>
&nbsp; <br>So, good job,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/., upset your readers by running an inciting headline and then let us tear each other apart because some people just don't RTFA.  Yay.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , so it seems that everyone has taken the headline 's " Suprised When Players Hate Him " as fact , but I do n't recall seeing that he was surprised , shocked , unnerved , or anything of the sort by their reaction .
Not only that , but he was n't really trolling , he was playing the game - albeit by disregarding " customs " set up by the buddy buddy heroes and villains - as it was intended , but the article does n't mention whether or not he harassed players .
Though , if I were a hero and saw a villain just chilling , chatting it up , I 'd probably not waste much time in kicking his/her ass .
  So , good job , /. , upset your readers by running an inciting headline and then let us tear each other apart because some people just do n't RTFA .
Yay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, so it seems that everyone has taken the headline's "Suprised When Players Hate Him" as fact, but I don't recall seeing that he was surprised, shocked, unnerved, or anything of the sort by their reaction.
Not only that, but he wasn't really trolling, he was playing the game - albeit by disregarding "customs" set up by the buddy buddy heroes and villains - as it was intended, but the article doesn't mention whether or not he harassed players.
Though, if I were a hero and saw a villain just chilling, chatting it up, I'd probably not waste much time in kicking his/her ass.
  So, good job, /., upset your readers by running an inciting headline and then let us tear each other apart because some people just don't RTFA.
Yay.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601805</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246885440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Haven't you seen watchmen?</p><p>Rorschach is the only "real" hero in the whole story, and yet he's a sociopath, just because society labels people as crazy, doesn't mean you can't roleplay that type of character in a game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have n't you seen watchmen ? Rorschach is the only " real " hero in the whole story , and yet he 's a sociopath , just because society labels people as crazy , does n't mean you ca n't roleplay that type of character in a game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Haven't you seen watchmen?Rorschach is the only "real" hero in the whole story, and yet he's a sociopath, just because society labels people as crazy, doesn't mean you can't roleplay that type of character in a game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28610421</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Reapy</author>
	<datestamp>1246990560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I played heavily in the 1.2 patch. I know with successive patches the saberist became more vulnerable, but for myself I enjoyed playing heavily with the saber out in FFA styles. I agree with the main poster about the community. At first, the whole 'honor' thing wasn't that crazy, just one odd ball or two per server. I think the patching is what really killed the game off, ending up with only honor RPG style servers.</p><p>For myself I loved to jump into the FFA pits and often came out leading kill counts by +20 or so on random servers, it was great fun. The game itself was very balanced with all the weapons, each with their place. I primarily got most of my kills with the saber, since heavy swings and the DFA attack (they needed to remove the air swivel with that, little OP ) would kill someone very fast.</p><p>For blaster shots you could face the person in light stance and reflect or block almost everything coming in at you. Vs the blue ball gun (forget the names) you could force push one ball back and then you had to evade behind a wall or out of range since they could fire faster then you could push.</p><p>Fletchet gun was deadly against you, if they were spamming grenades you can push them away and evade. If they fired the flack at you, you had to get out of the way. Rockets were no problem force push them back on them. Sniper was pretty easy, force vision if you were feeling perky, but mostly just moving fast and keeping your saber out would block the shot.</p><p>The real ones to worry about were repeater balls and fletchet spam. When this came at you, you just had to evade and get behind a wall or close to them. From that point you just roll in on them and force pull, grabbing the weapon right out of their hands. At that point you could just turn and fire on them or saber them to death.</p><p>I think combined with force heal being a bit OP as well, you could almost stay alive forever. If they were shooting you down a hall way you just back up around the corner, heal up, then come at them with force speed + protect and then pull the weapon out of their hands, and from there they are confused and need to swap up weapons, giving you plenty of time to control the situation and end it.</p><p>But anyway, I agree, saber dueling was one of the best parts of the game, but for me, so was standing out in the open with my saber being able to counter almost every weapon thrown at me from the corners.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I played heavily in the 1.2 patch .
I know with successive patches the saberist became more vulnerable , but for myself I enjoyed playing heavily with the saber out in FFA styles .
I agree with the main poster about the community .
At first , the whole 'honor ' thing was n't that crazy , just one odd ball or two per server .
I think the patching is what really killed the game off , ending up with only honor RPG style servers.For myself I loved to jump into the FFA pits and often came out leading kill counts by + 20 or so on random servers , it was great fun .
The game itself was very balanced with all the weapons , each with their place .
I primarily got most of my kills with the saber , since heavy swings and the DFA attack ( they needed to remove the air swivel with that , little OP ) would kill someone very fast.For blaster shots you could face the person in light stance and reflect or block almost everything coming in at you .
Vs the blue ball gun ( forget the names ) you could force push one ball back and then you had to evade behind a wall or out of range since they could fire faster then you could push.Fletchet gun was deadly against you , if they were spamming grenades you can push them away and evade .
If they fired the flack at you , you had to get out of the way .
Rockets were no problem force push them back on them .
Sniper was pretty easy , force vision if you were feeling perky , but mostly just moving fast and keeping your saber out would block the shot.The real ones to worry about were repeater balls and fletchet spam .
When this came at you , you just had to evade and get behind a wall or close to them .
From that point you just roll in on them and force pull , grabbing the weapon right out of their hands .
At that point you could just turn and fire on them or saber them to death.I think combined with force heal being a bit OP as well , you could almost stay alive forever .
If they were shooting you down a hall way you just back up around the corner , heal up , then come at them with force speed + protect and then pull the weapon out of their hands , and from there they are confused and need to swap up weapons , giving you plenty of time to control the situation and end it.But anyway , I agree , saber dueling was one of the best parts of the game , but for me , so was standing out in the open with my saber being able to counter almost every weapon thrown at me from the corners .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I played heavily in the 1.2 patch.
I know with successive patches the saberist became more vulnerable, but for myself I enjoyed playing heavily with the saber out in FFA styles.
I agree with the main poster about the community.
At first, the whole 'honor' thing wasn't that crazy, just one odd ball or two per server.
I think the patching is what really killed the game off, ending up with only honor RPG style servers.For myself I loved to jump into the FFA pits and often came out leading kill counts by +20 or so on random servers, it was great fun.
The game itself was very balanced with all the weapons, each with their place.
I primarily got most of my kills with the saber, since heavy swings and the DFA attack (they needed to remove the air swivel with that, little OP ) would kill someone very fast.For blaster shots you could face the person in light stance and reflect or block almost everything coming in at you.
Vs the blue ball gun (forget the names) you could force push one ball back and then you had to evade behind a wall or out of range since they could fire faster then you could push.Fletchet gun was deadly against you, if they were spamming grenades you can push them away and evade.
If they fired the flack at you, you had to get out of the way.
Rockets were no problem force push them back on them.
Sniper was pretty easy, force vision if you were feeling perky, but mostly just moving fast and keeping your saber out would block the shot.The real ones to worry about were repeater balls and fletchet spam.
When this came at you, you just had to evade and get behind a wall or close to them.
From that point you just roll in on them and force pull, grabbing the weapon right out of their hands.
At that point you could just turn and fire on them or saber them to death.I think combined with force heal being a bit OP as well, you could almost stay alive forever.
If they were shooting you down a hall way you just back up around the corner, heal up, then come at them with force speed + protect and then pull the weapon out of their hands, and from there they are confused and need to swap up weapons, giving you plenty of time to control the situation and end it.But anyway, I agree, saber dueling was one of the best parts of the game, but for me, so was standing out in the open with my saber being able to counter almost every weapon thrown at me from the corners.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603653</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601503</id>
	<title>Was this ethical?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246883940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>He conducted research on humans, without their consent, and it may have involved children and deception. I sure hope this was institutional review board approved, as he has basically checked off all the high risk criteria that require a full board review and probably requires oversight to be considered ethical. If it was not, his paper should be withdrawn by the publisher, his university should sanction him and he should be ineligible for future government grants.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He conducted research on humans , without their consent , and it may have involved children and deception .
I sure hope this was institutional review board approved , as he has basically checked off all the high risk criteria that require a full board review and probably requires oversight to be considered ethical .
If it was not , his paper should be withdrawn by the publisher , his university should sanction him and he should be ineligible for future government grants .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He conducted research on humans, without their consent, and it may have involved children and deception.
I sure hope this was institutional review board approved, as he has basically checked off all the high risk criteria that require a full board review and probably requires oversight to be considered ethical.
If it was not, his paper should be withdrawn by the publisher, his university should sanction him and he should be ineligible for future government grants.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609085</id>
	<title>Definition of sociopath</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246985280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sociopath A.K.A. Antisocial personality disorder:</p><p>A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others and inability or unwillingness to conform to what are considered to be the norms of society.</p><p>The guy's premise was all wrong.  What he was really testing was how people respond to a sociopath when they have absolutely no power to stop it.  In real life, a sociopath is forced into therapy, medication, a psychiatric facility, or most commonly, prison.  These people were not bullying him.  He was the bully and they were responding with the only weapons that had to protect themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sociopath A.K.A .
Antisocial personality disorder : A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others and inability or unwillingness to conform to what are considered to be the norms of society.The guy 's premise was all wrong .
What he was really testing was how people respond to a sociopath when they have absolutely no power to stop it .
In real life , a sociopath is forced into therapy , medication , a psychiatric facility , or most commonly , prison .
These people were not bullying him .
He was the bully and they were responding with the only weapons that had to protect themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sociopath A.K.A.
Antisocial personality disorder:A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others and inability or unwillingness to conform to what are considered to be the norms of society.The guy's premise was all wrong.
What he was really testing was how people respond to a sociopath when they have absolutely no power to stop it.
In real life, a sociopath is forced into therapy, medication, a psychiatric facility, or most commonly, prison.
These people were not bullying him.
He was the bully and they were responding with the only weapons that had to protect themselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600969</id>
	<title>Re:Technically not trolling.</title>
	<author>Fulcrum of Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1246881120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>According to other sources, he spent most of his time attention whoring, massively misrepresented his behavior (posting kill logs, taunting the dead, and pulling people out of existing battles) and just generally acted like a douche. Not only that, but he's the only one who thinks he's the most reviled character on that game. In short, act like a douche and people don't like you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>According to other sources , he spent most of his time attention whoring , massively misrepresented his behavior ( posting kill logs , taunting the dead , and pulling people out of existing battles ) and just generally acted like a douche .
Not only that , but he 's the only one who thinks he 's the most reviled character on that game .
In short , act like a douche and people do n't like you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to other sources, he spent most of his time attention whoring, massively misrepresented his behavior (posting kill logs, taunting the dead, and pulling people out of existing battles) and just generally acted like a douche.
Not only that, but he's the only one who thinks he's the most reviled character on that game.
In short, act like a douche and people don't like you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600607</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603651</id>
	<title>Calling Captain Obvious</title>
	<author>jejones</author>
	<datestamp>1246898340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So this professor spent a long time being a jerk, and was surprised to find out that people didn't like it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So this professor spent a long time being a jerk , and was surprised to find out that people did n't like it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So this professor spent a long time being a jerk, and was surprised to find out that people didn't like it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609691</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>deanc</author>
	<datestamp>1246987500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The funny this is that being a "villain" means that you don't act "within the acceptable norms."</p><p>Though Meyer claimed he was being a "hero," he was actually adopting a "villain" persona, and the other players had to act outside the confines of the game to get back at him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The funny this is that being a " villain " means that you do n't act " within the acceptable norms .
" Though Meyer claimed he was being a " hero , " he was actually adopting a " villain " persona , and the other players had to act outside the confines of the game to get back at him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The funny this is that being a "villain" means that you don't act "within the acceptable norms.
"Though Meyer claimed he was being a "hero," he was actually adopting a "villain" persona, and the other players had to act outside the confines of the game to get back at him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604393</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>ildon</author>
	<datestamp>1246907160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except that WoW developers force the player base to do things all the time, and it's the most popular MMO on earth. The problem is when developers force players to do things that are *not fun*, not when developers force players to do things in general. The obvious deduction taken from this article is that CoH/CoV PvP is *not fun*. But rather than attempt to overhaul it and make it fun, the developers have left the playerbase to make their own game of it, to the detriment of those who would at least like to try the game that it was originally meant to be.</p><p>I bet if they overhauled the PvP system to be fun, then forced the people to PvP in PvP zones instead of standing around fighting NPC's or chatting, then they'd actually see a net increase in the game's population, rather than a decrease, because they would be adding an element to the game that did not already exist (fun PvP), without really removing anything (the ability to chat and stand around doing nothing).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that WoW developers force the player base to do things all the time , and it 's the most popular MMO on earth .
The problem is when developers force players to do things that are * not fun * , not when developers force players to do things in general .
The obvious deduction taken from this article is that CoH/CoV PvP is * not fun * .
But rather than attempt to overhaul it and make it fun , the developers have left the playerbase to make their own game of it , to the detriment of those who would at least like to try the game that it was originally meant to be.I bet if they overhauled the PvP system to be fun , then forced the people to PvP in PvP zones instead of standing around fighting NPC 's or chatting , then they 'd actually see a net increase in the game 's population , rather than a decrease , because they would be adding an element to the game that did not already exist ( fun PvP ) , without really removing anything ( the ability to chat and stand around doing nothing ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that WoW developers force the player base to do things all the time, and it's the most popular MMO on earth.
The problem is when developers force players to do things that are *not fun*, not when developers force players to do things in general.
The obvious deduction taken from this article is that CoH/CoV PvP is *not fun*.
But rather than attempt to overhaul it and make it fun, the developers have left the playerbase to make their own game of it, to the detriment of those who would at least like to try the game that it was originally meant to be.I bet if they overhauled the PvP system to be fun, then forced the people to PvP in PvP zones instead of standing around fighting NPC's or chatting, then they'd actually see a net increase in the game's population, rather than a decrease, because they would be adding an element to the game that did not already exist (fun PvP), without really removing anything (the ability to chat and stand around doing nothing).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604021</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Mr. Slippery</author>
	<datestamp>1246902000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>I mean, who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force?</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>There is no equivalent of violent force in his gameplay. The violence here is in the criminal threats of actual violence directed against him.

</p><p>He's a paying customer of a gaming service. He's playing the game he paid for, according to the rules, and not taking unsportsman-like advantage of any loopholes.

</p><p>If a club puts up a sign that says "dance party, $10 cover", and some customers decide to sit on the dance floor, then they ought to move when dancers show up. If they don't, then they have no right to complain when they get stepped on.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean , who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force ?
There is no equivalent of violent force in his gameplay .
The violence here is in the criminal threats of actual violence directed against him .
He 's a paying customer of a gaming service .
He 's playing the game he paid for , according to the rules , and not taking unsportsman-like advantage of any loopholes .
If a club puts up a sign that says " dance party , $ 10 cover " , and some customers decide to sit on the dance floor , then they ought to move when dancers show up .
If they do n't , then they have no right to complain when they get stepped on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I mean, who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force?
There is no equivalent of violent force in his gameplay.
The violence here is in the criminal threats of actual violence directed against him.
He's a paying customer of a gaming service.
He's playing the game he paid for, according to the rules, and not taking unsportsman-like advantage of any loopholes.
If a club puts up a sign that says "dance party, $10 cover", and some customers decide to sit on the dance floor, then they ought to move when dancers show up.
If they don't, then they have no right to complain when they get stepped on.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601213</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>TOGSolid</author>
	<datestamp>1246882320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow, did this stir up some memories about my Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast days.  <br>
The attitude of the CoH community sounds a lot like the Saberists from JK2.  They had all these 'rules' for dueling online and would clog up the deathmatch servers, vote kicking anyone that didn't play their way.  Rather than actually play the game, they'd just chit chat in the corner and have duels between the players.  Never mind the fact that in deathmatch mode there was a duel key that prevented the agreeing duelists from being harmed by outside forces, the Saberists preferred to just completely overtake servers and ruin game after game with their forced upon "honor" (boy I wish I was making that up).  Sure you could try and find a different server, but eventually they had run off everyone else and trying to get a real game going was nigh impossible.  Anyone that just wanted to play JK2 (and JK: Academy later on) straight and have a good time was hailed as a griefer, a troll and turned into a pariah.<br>
Is what Myers did wrong?  Absolutely not, he was playing as any newcomer would.  I know my immediate impression would be: "An arena where the forces of good and evil do battle in order to see who's the best?  Sounds like a blast!  Wait, all they do is talk to each other and have their robots fight?  What the fuck?"<br>
Groups such as the CoH arena community, and the Saberists community before them deserve to be screwed with.  While community rules for fair play can indeed be an important part of a game (for instance, acknowledging a certain mechanic is broken and not using it until it's fixed just out of good sportsmanship), when they're twisted around as to essentially ruin the intent of the game, then they've gone too far.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , did this stir up some memories about my Jedi Knight II : Jedi Outcast days .
The attitude of the CoH community sounds a lot like the Saberists from JK2 .
They had all these 'rules ' for dueling online and would clog up the deathmatch servers , vote kicking anyone that did n't play their way .
Rather than actually play the game , they 'd just chit chat in the corner and have duels between the players .
Never mind the fact that in deathmatch mode there was a duel key that prevented the agreeing duelists from being harmed by outside forces , the Saberists preferred to just completely overtake servers and ruin game after game with their forced upon " honor " ( boy I wish I was making that up ) .
Sure you could try and find a different server , but eventually they had run off everyone else and trying to get a real game going was nigh impossible .
Anyone that just wanted to play JK2 ( and JK : Academy later on ) straight and have a good time was hailed as a griefer , a troll and turned into a pariah .
Is what Myers did wrong ?
Absolutely not , he was playing as any newcomer would .
I know my immediate impression would be : " An arena where the forces of good and evil do battle in order to see who 's the best ?
Sounds like a blast !
Wait , all they do is talk to each other and have their robots fight ?
What the fuck ?
" Groups such as the CoH arena community , and the Saberists community before them deserve to be screwed with .
While community rules for fair play can indeed be an important part of a game ( for instance , acknowledging a certain mechanic is broken and not using it until it 's fixed just out of good sportsmanship ) , when they 're twisted around as to essentially ruin the intent of the game , then they 've gone too far .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, did this stir up some memories about my Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast days.
The attitude of the CoH community sounds a lot like the Saberists from JK2.
They had all these 'rules' for dueling online and would clog up the deathmatch servers, vote kicking anyone that didn't play their way.
Rather than actually play the game, they'd just chit chat in the corner and have duels between the players.
Never mind the fact that in deathmatch mode there was a duel key that prevented the agreeing duelists from being harmed by outside forces, the Saberists preferred to just completely overtake servers and ruin game after game with their forced upon "honor" (boy I wish I was making that up).
Sure you could try and find a different server, but eventually they had run off everyone else and trying to get a real game going was nigh impossible.
Anyone that just wanted to play JK2 (and JK: Academy later on) straight and have a good time was hailed as a griefer, a troll and turned into a pariah.
Is what Myers did wrong?
Absolutely not, he was playing as any newcomer would.
I know my immediate impression would be: "An arena where the forces of good and evil do battle in order to see who's the best?
Sounds like a blast!
Wait, all they do is talk to each other and have their robots fight?
What the fuck?
"
Groups such as the CoH arena community, and the Saberists community before them deserve to be screwed with.
While community rules for fair play can indeed be an important part of a game (for instance, acknowledging a certain mechanic is broken and not using it until it's fixed just out of good sportsmanship), when they're twisted around as to essentially ruin the intent of the game, then they've gone too far.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602483</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246889460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, the driver's handbook my state publishes specifically says you should only use the left lane to pass.  So when some asshole in a Winnebago camps the passing lane at (speed limit minus 10), he really is breaking the law, or at least driving improperly.  Like jaywalking and littering, it's something cops don't really care about, so everyone does it, and most people don't even know it's wrong.  And then everyone's surprised when they hear the Germans actually enforce rules like that.  Sigh...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , the driver 's handbook my state publishes specifically says you should only use the left lane to pass .
So when some asshole in a Winnebago camps the passing lane at ( speed limit minus 10 ) , he really is breaking the law , or at least driving improperly .
Like jaywalking and littering , it 's something cops do n't really care about , so everyone does it , and most people do n't even know it 's wrong .
And then everyone 's surprised when they hear the Germans actually enforce rules like that .
Sigh.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, the driver's handbook my state publishes specifically says you should only use the left lane to pass.
So when some asshole in a Winnebago camps the passing lane at (speed limit minus 10), he really is breaking the law, or at least driving improperly.
Like jaywalking and littering, it's something cops don't really care about, so everyone does it, and most people don't even know it's wrong.
And then everyone's surprised when they hear the Germans actually enforce rules like that.
Sigh...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605923</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246969560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.</p><p>So, why bother logging on then?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules ' , and get used to living in a society.So , why bother logging on then ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so cut the bullshit about 'its within the rules', and get used to living in a society.So, why bother logging on then?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28610629</id>
	<title>Re:Not Research</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1246991340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, it's pretty simple really: act like a normal, pleasant human being and you'll probably fit in pretty well. It doesn't take long to figure out the customs and player-imposed courtesies, and most people will remain civil if you apologize for your more glaring missteps.</p><p>This guy intentionally went out of his way to be a dick, and he's surprised that people were irritated.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , it 's pretty simple really : act like a normal , pleasant human being and you 'll probably fit in pretty well .
It does n't take long to figure out the customs and player-imposed courtesies , and most people will remain civil if you apologize for your more glaring missteps.This guy intentionally went out of his way to be a dick , and he 's surprised that people were irritated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, it's pretty simple really: act like a normal, pleasant human being and you'll probably fit in pretty well.
It doesn't take long to figure out the customs and player-imposed courtesies, and most people will remain civil if you apologize for your more glaring missteps.This guy intentionally went out of his way to be a dick, and he's surprised that people were irritated.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28606623</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28611509</id>
	<title>Re:Not Research</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246994580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't understand.  From my reading of the article, this area was designed for combat between players.  If that's what it's for, why is anyone complaining when he uses it that way?  To me, it seems like the whiners are the fuckwads.</p><p>Compare this to a fighting game, where new players (called "scrubs") will often decry certain moves as "<a href="http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/PonderCheapness" title="shoryuken.com">cheap</a> [shoryuken.com]" and try to get people not to use them.  Sorry no, it's part of the game, they put it in for a reason, and you're not smarter than the developers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand .
From my reading of the article , this area was designed for combat between players .
If that 's what it 's for , why is anyone complaining when he uses it that way ?
To me , it seems like the whiners are the fuckwads.Compare this to a fighting game , where new players ( called " scrubs " ) will often decry certain moves as " cheap [ shoryuken.com ] " and try to get people not to use them .
Sorry no , it 's part of the game , they put it in for a reason , and you 're not smarter than the developers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand.
From my reading of the article, this area was designed for combat between players.
If that's what it's for, why is anyone complaining when he uses it that way?
To me, it seems like the whiners are the fuckwads.Compare this to a fighting game, where new players (called "scrubs") will often decry certain moves as "cheap [shoryuken.com]" and try to get people not to use them.
Sorry no, it's part of the game, they put it in for a reason, and you're not smarter than the developers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602667</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601141</id>
	<title>How utterly bizzare...</title>
	<author>meerling</author>
	<datestamp>1246881900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's amazing!  <br>
He actually found an MMORPG with a faction battlezone where the participants are NOT at each others throats?!?<br>
<br>
Maybe he should go into WoW, or Warhammer, or just about all the others.<br>
Try walking into a PvP flagged area and not get killed, especially if you are half the power of your opponents, or even weaker.<br>
<br>
He should be more interested in why CoH/CoV has a PvP area that is used peacefully when that's unthinkable in other games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's amazing !
He actually found an MMORPG with a faction battlezone where the participants are NOT at each others throats ? ! ?
Maybe he should go into WoW , or Warhammer , or just about all the others .
Try walking into a PvP flagged area and not get killed , especially if you are half the power of your opponents , or even weaker .
He should be more interested in why CoH/CoV has a PvP area that is used peacefully when that 's unthinkable in other games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's amazing!
He actually found an MMORPG with a faction battlezone where the participants are NOT at each others throats?!?
Maybe he should go into WoW, or Warhammer, or just about all the others.
Try walking into a PvP flagged area and not get killed, especially if you are half the power of your opponents, or even weaker.
He should be more interested in why CoH/CoV has a PvP area that is used peacefully when that's unthinkable in other games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601309</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>PaganRitual</author>
	<datestamp>1246882920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Feel free to keep making it up as you go along. You have to be one of those players that takes the game scarily seriously that I see in WoW all the time, threatening other players online as though you could do anything about anything, and going all nerd-rage and moving onto personal threats within a short space of time. Reminds me of the time I accidentally trained a bunch of mobs onto another player on the same faction, and he told me to "do that again and watch what happens". When the game completely removed the ability to affect players on the same side in any meaningful way. Maybe he was going to cast water walking on me as I took a huge dive into water or something.</p><p>You can't freely be a 'badass' in the game? Because of what? That it's going to be "added to your reputation"? You seriously think that people are going to be changing servers and character names because of a bunch of tweens or early twenty-somethings call them a faggot or a n00b enough? You do realise that there is a ceiling on the IQ level allowed to access/read MMO forums, and let me tell you, you'll get enough change out of a hundred to fund at least a handful of YouTube commentators.</p><p>But I digress.</p><p>If the game developer (self righteous? ouch, someone bitching about the latest nerf are they?) didn't prevent something, then it's within the rules. Just in case you weren't aware, that's actually how the rules in a game are defined, because it's a closed system and there are no external influences. The developer is king. If they let you do something, do it. If they don't want it done, they block it. If something is happening that makes you all teary eyed, then go dampen the shoulder of the internal game admins, and I'm sure that if the developers want it stopped, it will be stopped. Otherwise, hey, it's just a game. For some of us. In the mean time feel free to parade around like some sort of king of shit mountain, as though you have the power to really do anything, because your self delusion is pretty damn entertaining to read.</p><p>[Side note : I have an 80, 76, 71 and 70 in WoW, this isn't a "You're a loser because you play WoW" comment. It's just that there is a reason I play on a PvP server; it's so your own side can be easily blocked as well as having no way of talking to the other side. Because basically, as a rule, the vast majority of MMO gamers are socially, and likely mentally, retarded, and take the game seriously to a quite frankly pathetic level. Case in point, our man unity100 here]</p><p>There is a lot of early morning aggro here, not least because I can't drink coffee at the moment, but I'll post anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Feel free to keep making it up as you go along .
You have to be one of those players that takes the game scarily seriously that I see in WoW all the time , threatening other players online as though you could do anything about anything , and going all nerd-rage and moving onto personal threats within a short space of time .
Reminds me of the time I accidentally trained a bunch of mobs onto another player on the same faction , and he told me to " do that again and watch what happens " .
When the game completely removed the ability to affect players on the same side in any meaningful way .
Maybe he was going to cast water walking on me as I took a huge dive into water or something.You ca n't freely be a 'badass ' in the game ?
Because of what ?
That it 's going to be " added to your reputation " ?
You seriously think that people are going to be changing servers and character names because of a bunch of tweens or early twenty-somethings call them a faggot or a n00b enough ?
You do realise that there is a ceiling on the IQ level allowed to access/read MMO forums , and let me tell you , you 'll get enough change out of a hundred to fund at least a handful of YouTube commentators.But I digress.If the game developer ( self righteous ?
ouch , someone bitching about the latest nerf are they ?
) did n't prevent something , then it 's within the rules .
Just in case you were n't aware , that 's actually how the rules in a game are defined , because it 's a closed system and there are no external influences .
The developer is king .
If they let you do something , do it .
If they do n't want it done , they block it .
If something is happening that makes you all teary eyed , then go dampen the shoulder of the internal game admins , and I 'm sure that if the developers want it stopped , it will be stopped .
Otherwise , hey , it 's just a game .
For some of us .
In the mean time feel free to parade around like some sort of king of shit mountain , as though you have the power to really do anything , because your self delusion is pretty damn entertaining to read .
[ Side note : I have an 80 , 76 , 71 and 70 in WoW , this is n't a " You 're a loser because you play WoW " comment .
It 's just that there is a reason I play on a PvP server ; it 's so your own side can be easily blocked as well as having no way of talking to the other side .
Because basically , as a rule , the vast majority of MMO gamers are socially , and likely mentally , retarded , and take the game seriously to a quite frankly pathetic level .
Case in point , our man unity100 here ] There is a lot of early morning aggro here , not least because I ca n't drink coffee at the moment , but I 'll post anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Feel free to keep making it up as you go along.
You have to be one of those players that takes the game scarily seriously that I see in WoW all the time, threatening other players online as though you could do anything about anything, and going all nerd-rage and moving onto personal threats within a short space of time.
Reminds me of the time I accidentally trained a bunch of mobs onto another player on the same faction, and he told me to "do that again and watch what happens".
When the game completely removed the ability to affect players on the same side in any meaningful way.
Maybe he was going to cast water walking on me as I took a huge dive into water or something.You can't freely be a 'badass' in the game?
Because of what?
That it's going to be "added to your reputation"?
You seriously think that people are going to be changing servers and character names because of a bunch of tweens or early twenty-somethings call them a faggot or a n00b enough?
You do realise that there is a ceiling on the IQ level allowed to access/read MMO forums, and let me tell you, you'll get enough change out of a hundred to fund at least a handful of YouTube commentators.But I digress.If the game developer (self righteous?
ouch, someone bitching about the latest nerf are they?
) didn't prevent something, then it's within the rules.
Just in case you weren't aware, that's actually how the rules in a game are defined, because it's a closed system and there are no external influences.
The developer is king.
If they let you do something, do it.
If they don't want it done, they block it.
If something is happening that makes you all teary eyed, then go dampen the shoulder of the internal game admins, and I'm sure that if the developers want it stopped, it will be stopped.
Otherwise, hey, it's just a game.
For some of us.
In the mean time feel free to parade around like some sort of king of shit mountain, as though you have the power to really do anything, because your self delusion is pretty damn entertaining to read.
[Side note : I have an 80, 76, 71 and 70 in WoW, this isn't a "You're a loser because you play WoW" comment.
It's just that there is a reason I play on a PvP server; it's so your own side can be easily blocked as well as having no way of talking to the other side.
Because basically, as a rule, the vast majority of MMO gamers are socially, and likely mentally, retarded, and take the game seriously to a quite frankly pathetic level.
Case in point, our man unity100 here]There is a lot of early morning aggro here, not least because I can't drink coffee at the moment, but I'll post anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603497</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246897380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And the saberists are still playing - 7 years later - on the original version 1.02a. What does that say about playing 'fairly'? An appreciation for sabering would go a long way. If you want a regular fps, then you're not exactly strapped for options. There hasn't been and won't be a game like jk2 for a long time, this is unmatched. It was a magnificent 3d fighting game and to ignore that and demand it to play like a run and gun fps is ridiculous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And the saberists are still playing - 7 years later - on the original version 1.02a .
What does that say about playing 'fairly ' ?
An appreciation for sabering would go a long way .
If you want a regular fps , then you 're not exactly strapped for options .
There has n't been and wo n't be a game like jk2 for a long time , this is unmatched .
It was a magnificent 3d fighting game and to ignore that and demand it to play like a run and gun fps is ridiculous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the saberists are still playing - 7 years later - on the original version 1.02a.
What does that say about playing 'fairly'?
An appreciation for sabering would go a long way.
If you want a regular fps, then you're not exactly strapped for options.
There hasn't been and won't be a game like jk2 for a long time, this is unmatched.
It was a magnificent 3d fighting game and to ignore that and demand it to play like a run and gun fps is ridiculous.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28615809</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Valdrax</author>
	<datestamp>1246970340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>No it's not legal to drive 45 MPH in the "passing lane". In fact it's not even really legal to "drive" in the passing lane.</p></div><p>In your state.  Not mine.  Man I wish I had picked a different example because people are jumping all over this (making the same mistake *I* did in thinking that the whole US works like their home state) instead of actually paying attention to my points.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>And yes, it is the developers who make the laws/rules of the game. Which is just like in the real world, there are people who live by the laws and there are people who totally ignore the laws, and there are those who live by the laws that are socially acceptable to the portion of society they mingle with.</p></div><p>And in the real world, it's perfectly legal to do all kinds of really annoying things.  Like get out on a street corner and give a racist rant.  Or to stand only 4 inches behind someone.  Or to pick your nose and wipe it off on a public bench.  Or to whistle showtunes at a funeral.</p><p>But almost everyone will get upset with you, and that's the real point of this whole exercise, isn't it?  Doctor Griefer here bemoans the "herd-like" mentality of people playing the game, and he claims that only the "laws" of the game matter and not the social customs.  But anyone who acts like he did in real life and who hides behind the refuge of saying, "There's no law against <em>that</em>!" would be just as quickly hated and outcast.</p><p>Why?  Because some rules exist even if they're not written down.  Welcome to the human race!</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I see nothing wrong with what the professor did. So he's a sociopath. Welcome to the world of geeks and nerds.</p></div><p>I'm not sure whether to be confused by this statement or just to be really, really worried about you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No it 's not legal to drive 45 MPH in the " passing lane " .
In fact it 's not even really legal to " drive " in the passing lane.In your state .
Not mine .
Man I wish I had picked a different example because people are jumping all over this ( making the same mistake * I * did in thinking that the whole US works like their home state ) instead of actually paying attention to my points.And yes , it is the developers who make the laws/rules of the game .
Which is just like in the real world , there are people who live by the laws and there are people who totally ignore the laws , and there are those who live by the laws that are socially acceptable to the portion of society they mingle with.And in the real world , it 's perfectly legal to do all kinds of really annoying things .
Like get out on a street corner and give a racist rant .
Or to stand only 4 inches behind someone .
Or to pick your nose and wipe it off on a public bench .
Or to whistle showtunes at a funeral.But almost everyone will get upset with you , and that 's the real point of this whole exercise , is n't it ?
Doctor Griefer here bemoans the " herd-like " mentality of people playing the game , and he claims that only the " laws " of the game matter and not the social customs .
But anyone who acts like he did in real life and who hides behind the refuge of saying , " There 's no law against that !
" would be just as quickly hated and outcast.Why ?
Because some rules exist even if they 're not written down .
Welcome to the human race ! I see nothing wrong with what the professor did .
So he 's a sociopath .
Welcome to the world of geeks and nerds.I 'm not sure whether to be confused by this statement or just to be really , really worried about you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No it's not legal to drive 45 MPH in the "passing lane".
In fact it's not even really legal to "drive" in the passing lane.In your state.
Not mine.
Man I wish I had picked a different example because people are jumping all over this (making the same mistake *I* did in thinking that the whole US works like their home state) instead of actually paying attention to my points.And yes, it is the developers who make the laws/rules of the game.
Which is just like in the real world, there are people who live by the laws and there are people who totally ignore the laws, and there are those who live by the laws that are socially acceptable to the portion of society they mingle with.And in the real world, it's perfectly legal to do all kinds of really annoying things.
Like get out on a street corner and give a racist rant.
Or to stand only 4 inches behind someone.
Or to pick your nose and wipe it off on a public bench.
Or to whistle showtunes at a funeral.But almost everyone will get upset with you, and that's the real point of this whole exercise, isn't it?
Doctor Griefer here bemoans the "herd-like" mentality of people playing the game, and he claims that only the "laws" of the game matter and not the social customs.
But anyone who acts like he did in real life and who hides behind the refuge of saying, "There's no law against that!
" would be just as quickly hated and outcast.Why?
Because some rules exist even if they're not written down.
Welcome to the human race!I see nothing wrong with what the professor did.
So he's a sociopath.
Welcome to the world of geeks and nerds.I'm not sure whether to be confused by this statement or just to be really, really worried about you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603933</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600829</id>
	<title>More of a study of Socialogy than Video Games...</title>
	<author>sou11ess</author>
	<datestamp>1246880280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He's really just studying the behaviors of a community and what happens when you go against the established rules.</p><p>To take it out of the video game - think of a company buying a plot of land and build a baseball field on it. Instead of playing baseball, people have decided to use the field as a place to sunbathe. Along comes this person that wants to play baseball on the baseball field. Unfortunately, it's been taken over by people who are doing something else in it. The majority doesn't want to leave. The individual just wants to use the field for what it was built for.</p><p>So who's in the wrong there?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He 's really just studying the behaviors of a community and what happens when you go against the established rules.To take it out of the video game - think of a company buying a plot of land and build a baseball field on it .
Instead of playing baseball , people have decided to use the field as a place to sunbathe .
Along comes this person that wants to play baseball on the baseball field .
Unfortunately , it 's been taken over by people who are doing something else in it .
The majority does n't want to leave .
The individual just wants to use the field for what it was built for.So who 's in the wrong there ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He's really just studying the behaviors of a community and what happens when you go against the established rules.To take it out of the video game - think of a company buying a plot of land and build a baseball field on it.
Instead of playing baseball, people have decided to use the field as a place to sunbathe.
Along comes this person that wants to play baseball on the baseball field.
Unfortunately, it's been taken over by people who are doing something else in it.
The majority doesn't want to leave.
The individual just wants to use the field for what it was built for.So who's in the wrong there?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28607959</id>
	<title>Re:Not trolling</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246980720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've played MMO's since the release of Anarchy Online in 1999 and played online games since before that.  So, I know from whence I speak I even tried City of Heroes a few years back.  To me the most telling line is this one...</p><p>"If you kill me one more time I will come and kill you for real and I am not kidding."</p><p>Specifically, "one more time", It sounds like this guy just sat there and kept killing the same people over and over when they had no chance to defend themselves.  This is NOT fun.  Games are inherently suppose to be fun.  Who wants to pay 30 dollars a month so that someone can unhappy even miserable. Better to got to the corner and pay someone to kick me in the balls.  I'm surprised he wasn't booted by NCSoft I'm sure he lost them more than one paying customer.   Since the begin there have been bugs, exploits, and sometimes simple balance issues in online games that need to be resolved over time. There are always those who take advantage to ruin the game for others.  Often somethings are just considered cheap or dishonorable and frowned apon by other gamers.  This guy was playing like a dick and ruining other people fun and using the rules as an excuse for his bad behavior.  He wasn't even playing to have fun himself.  He was there just to harass others and that's sort of sick.  What was his premise, if I make other people miserable will the snap.</p><p>I found these even funnier, "Myers was stunned by the reaction, since he obeyed the game's rules. "  and "disregarding any customs set by the players".  Stupid!!!  Is this guy an idiot?  So, basically he was ignoring the unwritten social contract of society. Yes, a pretend society but a society none the less. You can tell he isn't a sociology, psychology or anthropology professor because they would have understood offhand that the social contract is more important that the rules.  Just as in real life it dictates behavior not specified in the rules and those who don't follow are outcasts.</p><p>There's no law that requires me to shower but if I stopped I would lose my job and eventually much more.  There's no law against sleeping with your best friends girl so why should he be upset.  I can wear a shirt with a swastika that say "F' the Jews", sure it's legal but society would quickly make me an outcast.  And sure I could find other outcast to band with but we would be outcasts none the less.  These are just a few examples,   Think about all the other things that define our society that are not written law.  There are more unwritten than there are written.  (Well, maybe not anymore.) Our Social Contract...</p><p>It's no different in a persistent digital world.  The rules are there so the game company can exercise some control and have a legal leg to stand on when banning a player.  The Social Contract is there to define the rest...<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've played MMO 's since the release of Anarchy Online in 1999 and played online games since before that .
So , I know from whence I speak I even tried City of Heroes a few years back .
To me the most telling line is this one... " If you kill me one more time I will come and kill you for real and I am not kidding .
" Specifically , " one more time " , It sounds like this guy just sat there and kept killing the same people over and over when they had no chance to defend themselves .
This is NOT fun .
Games are inherently suppose to be fun .
Who wants to pay 30 dollars a month so that someone can unhappy even miserable .
Better to got to the corner and pay someone to kick me in the balls .
I 'm surprised he was n't booted by NCSoft I 'm sure he lost them more than one paying customer .
Since the begin there have been bugs , exploits , and sometimes simple balance issues in online games that need to be resolved over time .
There are always those who take advantage to ruin the game for others .
Often somethings are just considered cheap or dishonorable and frowned apon by other gamers .
This guy was playing like a dick and ruining other people fun and using the rules as an excuse for his bad behavior .
He was n't even playing to have fun himself .
He was there just to harass others and that 's sort of sick .
What was his premise , if I make other people miserable will the snap.I found these even funnier , " Myers was stunned by the reaction , since he obeyed the game 's rules .
" and " disregarding any customs set by the players " .
Stupid ! ! ! Is this guy an idiot ?
So , basically he was ignoring the unwritten social contract of society .
Yes , a pretend society but a society none the less .
You can tell he is n't a sociology , psychology or anthropology professor because they would have understood offhand that the social contract is more important that the rules .
Just as in real life it dictates behavior not specified in the rules and those who do n't follow are outcasts.There 's no law that requires me to shower but if I stopped I would lose my job and eventually much more .
There 's no law against sleeping with your best friends girl so why should he be upset .
I can wear a shirt with a swastika that say " F ' the Jews " , sure it 's legal but society would quickly make me an outcast .
And sure I could find other outcast to band with but we would be outcasts none the less .
These are just a few examples , Think about all the other things that define our society that are not written law .
There are more unwritten than there are written .
( Well , maybe not anymore .
) Our Social Contract...It 's no different in a persistent digital world .
The rules are there so the game company can exercise some control and have a legal leg to stand on when banning a player .
The Social Contract is there to define the rest.. .  </tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've played MMO's since the release of Anarchy Online in 1999 and played online games since before that.
So, I know from whence I speak I even tried City of Heroes a few years back.
To me the most telling line is this one..."If you kill me one more time I will come and kill you for real and I am not kidding.
"Specifically, "one more time", It sounds like this guy just sat there and kept killing the same people over and over when they had no chance to defend themselves.
This is NOT fun.
Games are inherently suppose to be fun.
Who wants to pay 30 dollars a month so that someone can unhappy even miserable.
Better to got to the corner and pay someone to kick me in the balls.
I'm surprised he wasn't booted by NCSoft I'm sure he lost them more than one paying customer.
Since the begin there have been bugs, exploits, and sometimes simple balance issues in online games that need to be resolved over time.
There are always those who take advantage to ruin the game for others.
Often somethings are just considered cheap or dishonorable and frowned apon by other gamers.
This guy was playing like a dick and ruining other people fun and using the rules as an excuse for his bad behavior.
He wasn't even playing to have fun himself.
He was there just to harass others and that's sort of sick.
What was his premise, if I make other people miserable will the snap.I found these even funnier, "Myers was stunned by the reaction, since he obeyed the game's rules.
"  and "disregarding any customs set by the players".
Stupid!!!  Is this guy an idiot?
So, basically he was ignoring the unwritten social contract of society.
Yes, a pretend society but a society none the less.
You can tell he isn't a sociology, psychology or anthropology professor because they would have understood offhand that the social contract is more important that the rules.
Just as in real life it dictates behavior not specified in the rules and those who don't follow are outcasts.There's no law that requires me to shower but if I stopped I would lose my job and eventually much more.
There's no law against sleeping with your best friends girl so why should he be upset.
I can wear a shirt with a swastika that say "F' the Jews", sure it's legal but society would quickly make me an outcast.
And sure I could find other outcast to band with but we would be outcasts none the less.
These are just a few examples,   Think about all the other things that define our society that are not written law.
There are more unwritten than there are written.
(Well, maybe not anymore.
) Our Social Contract...It's no different in a persistent digital world.
The rules are there so the game company can exercise some control and have a legal leg to stand on when banning a player.
The Social Contract is there to define the rest...
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28616649</id>
	<title>and again</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1246977060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>society doesnt give a flying fuck about the physics rules. it sets up its own rules. if you be a jerk, which is allowed within the laws of physics, you still get outcast from the society. lawyers and court orders doesnt do zit either, they STILL can outcast you regardless of court orders, or even legislation, and there isnt shit you can do about it.</p><p>and, if you try enough, someone INDEED stops you, in a back alley with a bat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>society doesnt give a flying fuck about the physics rules .
it sets up its own rules .
if you be a jerk , which is allowed within the laws of physics , you still get outcast from the society .
lawyers and court orders doesnt do zit either , they STILL can outcast you regardless of court orders , or even legislation , and there isnt shit you can do about it.and , if you try enough , someone INDEED stops you , in a back alley with a bat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>society doesnt give a flying fuck about the physics rules.
it sets up its own rules.
if you be a jerk, which is allowed within the laws of physics, you still get outcast from the society.
lawyers and court orders doesnt do zit either, they STILL can outcast you regardless of court orders, or even legislation, and there isnt shit you can do about it.and, if you try enough, someone INDEED stops you, in a back alley with a bat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600897</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600535</id>
	<title>If it's within the rules, it's within the rules.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246878900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get used to it or get out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get used to it or get out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get used to it or get out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603945</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>MidnightBrewer</author>
	<datestamp>1246901100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're going to join in on a game and then not actually play, it's your own damn fault when you get your ass handed to you. If you want to chat, go to IRC. If you want to do it with an avatar, go to Second Life. If you're going to bitch because somebody tries to fight you in a (gasp!) fighting game, you may be pointing the finger of blame in the wrong direction.</p><p>An action/adventure game is meant to be just that.  It's not like the rules weren't outlined in advance. If I join a baseball game, I expect to be playing baseball, not watching everybody stand around preening and admiring how they look in their jerseys.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're going to join in on a game and then not actually play , it 's your own damn fault when you get your ass handed to you .
If you want to chat , go to IRC .
If you want to do it with an avatar , go to Second Life .
If you 're going to bitch because somebody tries to fight you in a ( gasp !
) fighting game , you may be pointing the finger of blame in the wrong direction.An action/adventure game is meant to be just that .
It 's not like the rules were n't outlined in advance .
If I join a baseball game , I expect to be playing baseball , not watching everybody stand around preening and admiring how they look in their jerseys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're going to join in on a game and then not actually play, it's your own damn fault when you get your ass handed to you.
If you want to chat, go to IRC.
If you want to do it with an avatar, go to Second Life.
If you're going to bitch because somebody tries to fight you in a (gasp!
) fighting game, you may be pointing the finger of blame in the wrong direction.An action/adventure game is meant to be just that.
It's not like the rules weren't outlined in advance.
If I join a baseball game, I expect to be playing baseball, not watching everybody stand around preening and admiring how they look in their jerseys.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600671</id>
	<title>Another "Researcher"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246879560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>without any real research. He needs to read Richard<br>Hamming's talk: <a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/hamming.html" title="paulgraham.com" rel="nofollow">You and Your Research</a> [paulgraham.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>without any real research .
He needs to read RichardHamming 's talk : You and Your Research [ paulgraham.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>without any real research.
He needs to read RichardHamming's talk: You and Your Research [paulgraham.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601221</id>
	<title>Re:Well duh...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246882380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>In IRC I get ChanServ to keep those assholes out.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In IRC I get ChanServ to keep those assholes out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In IRC I get ChanServ to keep those assholes out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600639</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609461</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246986600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road. Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there. Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.</p></div><p>It's illegal in Connecticut, likely elsewhere. You are suppose to drive in the right hand lane except to pass.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do , but most people do n't , and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that should n't be there .
Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.It 's illegal in Connecticut , likely elsewhere .
You are suppose to drive in the right hand lane except to pass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.
Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.It's illegal in Connecticut, likely elsewhere.
You are suppose to drive in the right hand lane except to pass.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28610323</id>
	<title>Re:Not a new concept</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246990260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. Kill massive amounts of people<br>2. ?????<br>3. Proffit!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Kill massive amounts of people2 .
? ? ? ? ? 3. Proffit !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Kill massive amounts of people2.
?????3. Proffit!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600607</id>
	<title>Technically not trolling.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246879200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you read the article, it mentioned that he just took a different stlye of battle, instead of the socially accepted standard of sending robots at their robots, he just killed them directly. He did not insult them, just took action different from the normal battle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you read the article , it mentioned that he just took a different stlye of battle , instead of the socially accepted standard of sending robots at their robots , he just killed them directly .
He did not insult them , just took action different from the normal battle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you read the article, it mentioned that he just took a different stlye of battle, instead of the socially accepted standard of sending robots at their robots, he just killed them directly.
He did not insult them, just took action different from the normal battle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603039</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>cyberfunkr</author>
	<datestamp>1246894200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.  Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.  Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.</p></div><p>Actually, you're kinda wrong, at least in terms of American driving. The law says by your going slow, you are creating a hazard and can be ticketed for such.</p><p>See, the left lane, known as the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing\_lane" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">passing lane</a> [wikipedia.org], or #1 lane for traffic reports, is designed for vehicles to legally pass other cars on the left hand side. By trying to go 45MPH, you're not only breaking the social norm, you're also breaking the law.</p><p>In some states, it's also illegal to drive long distances in the "passing lane". It is meant for passing, and by your staying in that lane, you are preventing others from passing; forcing them to either pass on the right (illegal) or use the center divide as a lane (illegal).</p><p>It's both anti-social AND illegal.</p><p>Plus remember, he was doing this as an ex-per-i-ment. That doesn't mean he condoned his own behavior, but it was done to further psychological research. Do you think the scientists from the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford\_prison\_experiment" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow"> Standford Prison Experiment</a> [wikipedia.org] thought beating up people was a happy fun thing?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do , but most people do n't , and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that should n't be there .
Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.Actually , you 're kinda wrong , at least in terms of American driving .
The law says by your going slow , you are creating a hazard and can be ticketed for such.See , the left lane , known as the passing lane [ wikipedia.org ] , or # 1 lane for traffic reports , is designed for vehicles to legally pass other cars on the left hand side .
By trying to go 45MPH , you 're not only breaking the social norm , you 're also breaking the law.In some states , it 's also illegal to drive long distances in the " passing lane " .
It is meant for passing , and by your staying in that lane , you are preventing others from passing ; forcing them to either pass on the right ( illegal ) or use the center divide as a lane ( illegal ) .It 's both anti-social AND illegal.Plus remember , he was doing this as an ex-per-i-ment .
That does n't mean he condoned his own behavior , but it was done to further psychological research .
Do you think the scientists from the Standford Prison Experiment [ wikipedia.org ] thought beating up people was a happy fun thing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.
Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.Actually, you're kinda wrong, at least in terms of American driving.
The law says by your going slow, you are creating a hazard and can be ticketed for such.See, the left lane, known as the passing lane [wikipedia.org], or #1 lane for traffic reports, is designed for vehicles to legally pass other cars on the left hand side.
By trying to go 45MPH, you're not only breaking the social norm, you're also breaking the law.In some states, it's also illegal to drive long distances in the "passing lane".
It is meant for passing, and by your staying in that lane, you are preventing others from passing; forcing them to either pass on the right (illegal) or use the center divide as a lane (illegal).It's both anti-social AND illegal.Plus remember, he was doing this as an ex-per-i-ment.
That doesn't mean he condoned his own behavior, but it was done to further psychological research.
Do you think the scientists from the  Standford Prison Experiment [wikipedia.org] thought beating up people was a happy fun thing?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601831</id>
	<title>meaningless statement</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246885560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Myers was stunned by the reaction, since he obeyed the game's rules.</p></div> </blockquote><p>That's meaningless, the programmed rules of the game are analagous to the laws of physics. Just because you can punch someone on the nose doesn't mean that you should, or that they should just shrug their shoulders and go "well, physics allows it, so I'm ok with it"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Myers was stunned by the reaction , since he obeyed the game 's rules .
That 's meaningless , the programmed rules of the game are analagous to the laws of physics .
Just because you can punch someone on the nose does n't mean that you should , or that they should just shrug their shoulders and go " well , physics allows it , so I 'm ok with it "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Myers was stunned by the reaction, since he obeyed the game's rules.
That's meaningless, the programmed rules of the game are analagous to the laws of physics.
Just because you can punch someone on the nose doesn't mean that you should, or that they should just shrug their shoulders and go "well, physics allows it, so I'm ok with it"
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600615</id>
	<title>Re:Not Research</title>
	<author>orkybash</author>
	<datestamp>1246879260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I find the moderation on this comment particularly ironic!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I find the moderation on this comment particularly ironic !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find the moderation on this comment particularly ironic!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600477</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602807</id>
	<title>Re:Ok, so...</title>
	<author>arb phd slp</author>
	<datestamp>1246892460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been wanting to write a rebuttal to Sirlin for a long time using Nicole Lazzaro's Four Types of Fun model: <a href="http://www.xeodesign.com/whyweplaygames.html" title="xeodesign.com">http://www.xeodesign.com/whyweplaygames.html</a> [xeodesign.com]</p><p>Sirlin is talking specifically about the Goal-Oriented/Abstract-Game type of fun (Fiero). He ignores the other three quadrants of play, which are very real and every bit as legit as his competitive gaming.</p><p>Every game has a socially constructed agreement about what the game is that they are playing. The developers have very little input into what that agreement ends up being once the game is put into motion (much to the chagrin of many game developers). Regardless of "the rules" as they are written, if you bring your A-game to a casual play session, YOU are the asshole; and calling everyone else "scrub" only makes you more so. Just like casual players whining at a high-level  tournament about "dishonorable" play is being the asshole because they are not honoring the social agreement about what game they are playing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been wanting to write a rebuttal to Sirlin for a long time using Nicole Lazzaro 's Four Types of Fun model : http : //www.xeodesign.com/whyweplaygames.html [ xeodesign.com ] Sirlin is talking specifically about the Goal-Oriented/Abstract-Game type of fun ( Fiero ) .
He ignores the other three quadrants of play , which are very real and every bit as legit as his competitive gaming.Every game has a socially constructed agreement about what the game is that they are playing .
The developers have very little input into what that agreement ends up being once the game is put into motion ( much to the chagrin of many game developers ) .
Regardless of " the rules " as they are written , if you bring your A-game to a casual play session , YOU are the asshole ; and calling everyone else " scrub " only makes you more so .
Just like casual players whining at a high-level tournament about " dishonorable " play is being the asshole because they are not honoring the social agreement about what game they are playing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been wanting to write a rebuttal to Sirlin for a long time using Nicole Lazzaro's Four Types of Fun model: http://www.xeodesign.com/whyweplaygames.html [xeodesign.com]Sirlin is talking specifically about the Goal-Oriented/Abstract-Game type of fun (Fiero).
He ignores the other three quadrants of play, which are very real and every bit as legit as his competitive gaming.Every game has a socially constructed agreement about what the game is that they are playing.
The developers have very little input into what that agreement ends up being once the game is put into motion (much to the chagrin of many game developers).
Regardless of "the rules" as they are written, if you bring your A-game to a casual play session, YOU are the asshole; and calling everyone else "scrub" only makes you more so.
Just like casual players whining at a high-level  tournament about "dishonorable" play is being the asshole because they are not honoring the social agreement about what game they are playing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28616051</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246972380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was very into JK2:Outcast as well. I loved both playing on duel servers and on ffa servers. I was in multiple clans over the years. I was never a "saborist". I played the game heavily from when it came out till late 06- it was "my" game, the one I spent 15-30 hours a week in.</p><p>I think one thing you are forgetting is like all multiplayer games, the older the game got, the less people played it. Interest slowly dwindled as newer games came out. It wasn't that the saborist types drove off all the other ffa players- more that your average ffa player got bored with the game as it got old and the community slowly died.</p><p>The saborist types had added an element of roll playing (which they invented for themselves outside the stated rules of the game) which added for them some more dept to the game. So they stuck around longer. But even they eventually got bored and left. I still occasionally logon and try to find a game, only a few servers ever seem to have real people, not bots.</p><p>Alas, like so many online communities I've enjoyed since I started using BBS in the 80s, it was a fleeting thing that consumed my time for a while, then ceased to be. It now just exists in my memories and a few websites that are still around.</p><p>Kind of makes me sad when I think about it...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was very into JK2 : Outcast as well .
I loved both playing on duel servers and on ffa servers .
I was in multiple clans over the years .
I was never a " saborist " .
I played the game heavily from when it came out till late 06- it was " my " game , the one I spent 15-30 hours a week in.I think one thing you are forgetting is like all multiplayer games , the older the game got , the less people played it .
Interest slowly dwindled as newer games came out .
It was n't that the saborist types drove off all the other ffa players- more that your average ffa player got bored with the game as it got old and the community slowly died.The saborist types had added an element of roll playing ( which they invented for themselves outside the stated rules of the game ) which added for them some more dept to the game .
So they stuck around longer .
But even they eventually got bored and left .
I still occasionally logon and try to find a game , only a few servers ever seem to have real people , not bots.Alas , like so many online communities I 've enjoyed since I started using BBS in the 80s , it was a fleeting thing that consumed my time for a while , then ceased to be .
It now just exists in my memories and a few websites that are still around.Kind of makes me sad when I think about it.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was very into JK2:Outcast as well.
I loved both playing on duel servers and on ffa servers.
I was in multiple clans over the years.
I was never a "saborist".
I played the game heavily from when it came out till late 06- it was "my" game, the one I spent 15-30 hours a week in.I think one thing you are forgetting is like all multiplayer games, the older the game got, the less people played it.
Interest slowly dwindled as newer games came out.
It wasn't that the saborist types drove off all the other ffa players- more that your average ffa player got bored with the game as it got old and the community slowly died.The saborist types had added an element of roll playing (which they invented for themselves outside the stated rules of the game) which added for them some more dept to the game.
So they stuck around longer.
But even they eventually got bored and left.
I still occasionally logon and try to find a game, only a few servers ever seem to have real people, not bots.Alas, like so many online communities I've enjoyed since I started using BBS in the 80s, it was a fleeting thing that consumed my time for a while, then ceased to be.
It now just exists in my memories and a few websites that are still around.Kind of makes me sad when I think about it...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28632693</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>ChaoticLimbs</author>
	<datestamp>1247078220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>He's not wrong to play that way, he's wrong to think that the other players should tolerate it happily.


He shouldn't be banned unless he pisses off a LOT of people (game companies are in the business of selling fun, and if he makes their product suck, they'll sacrifice him to the fun gods and permaban him.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>He 's not wrong to play that way , he 's wrong to think that the other players should tolerate it happily .
He should n't be banned unless he pisses off a LOT of people ( game companies are in the business of selling fun , and if he makes their product suck , they 'll sacrifice him to the fun gods and permaban him .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He's not wrong to play that way, he's wrong to think that the other players should tolerate it happily.
He shouldn't be banned unless he pisses off a LOT of people (game companies are in the business of selling fun, and if he makes their product suck, they'll sacrifice him to the fun gods and permaban him.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603853</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28612141</id>
	<title>Re:What an ass...</title>
	<author>sabt-pestnu</author>
	<datestamp>1246996980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>His point was to see how people reacted to someone antisocial within that game environment, deliberately creating tensions to see how people responded.</p><p>To that extent, the fact that he was using the game environment in ways not intended by the designers (what the GP was saying) is irrelevant.  He could have achieved the same results by gathering a group of other players (or simply by multi-boxing) and achieved much the same result.</p><p>Argument that he was "doing the point of the game" (by choosing a side and defeating the other side "by any means possible to the game") is also irrelevant.  It wasn't the game he was interested in, it was the reactions of the other players.</p><p><a href="http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1293667&amp;cid=28600817" title="slashdot.org">An eyewitness</a> [slashdot.org] earlier on this topic reported that he engaged in "non-mainstream behavior" socially in-game as well.  In that respect, "Trolls MMO" in the title for this slashdot article is well earned.  Not a lot different than trolling on a forum.</p><p>If you'd a correction to your counter-analogy, his tactics in-game would more resemble entrapment-and-reporting, rather than simple observing-and-reporting.</p><p>And you might also note that while City of Heroes/Villains has PvP elements in it (and those are what the researcher used), those elements are a very small portion of the game as a whole.   Most of the game is PvE, and some elements promote cooperative play between the sides.  Compare that to games such as Eve Online (almost exclusively PvP), WoW (selectively PvP), or, as you point out, Counterstrike (compulsorily PvP).  As you yourself point out, the social environment that evolves in each is distinct.  The researcher set out to see what happened when you behaved antisocially but within the rules of the game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>His point was to see how people reacted to someone antisocial within that game environment , deliberately creating tensions to see how people responded.To that extent , the fact that he was using the game environment in ways not intended by the designers ( what the GP was saying ) is irrelevant .
He could have achieved the same results by gathering a group of other players ( or simply by multi-boxing ) and achieved much the same result.Argument that he was " doing the point of the game " ( by choosing a side and defeating the other side " by any means possible to the game " ) is also irrelevant .
It was n't the game he was interested in , it was the reactions of the other players.An eyewitness [ slashdot.org ] earlier on this topic reported that he engaged in " non-mainstream behavior " socially in-game as well .
In that respect , " Trolls MMO " in the title for this slashdot article is well earned .
Not a lot different than trolling on a forum.If you 'd a correction to your counter-analogy , his tactics in-game would more resemble entrapment-and-reporting , rather than simple observing-and-reporting.And you might also note that while City of Heroes/Villains has PvP elements in it ( and those are what the researcher used ) , those elements are a very small portion of the game as a whole .
Most of the game is PvE , and some elements promote cooperative play between the sides .
Compare that to games such as Eve Online ( almost exclusively PvP ) , WoW ( selectively PvP ) , or , as you point out , Counterstrike ( compulsorily PvP ) .
As you yourself point out , the social environment that evolves in each is distinct .
The researcher set out to see what happened when you behaved antisocially but within the rules of the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>His point was to see how people reacted to someone antisocial within that game environment, deliberately creating tensions to see how people responded.To that extent, the fact that he was using the game environment in ways not intended by the designers (what the GP was saying) is irrelevant.
He could have achieved the same results by gathering a group of other players (or simply by multi-boxing) and achieved much the same result.Argument that he was "doing the point of the game" (by choosing a side and defeating the other side "by any means possible to the game") is also irrelevant.
It wasn't the game he was interested in, it was the reactions of the other players.An eyewitness [slashdot.org] earlier on this topic reported that he engaged in "non-mainstream behavior" socially in-game as well.
In that respect, "Trolls MMO" in the title for this slashdot article is well earned.
Not a lot different than trolling on a forum.If you'd a correction to your counter-analogy, his tactics in-game would more resemble entrapment-and-reporting, rather than simple observing-and-reporting.And you might also note that while City of Heroes/Villains has PvP elements in it (and those are what the researcher used), those elements are a very small portion of the game as a whole.
Most of the game is PvE, and some elements promote cooperative play between the sides.
Compare that to games such as Eve Online (almost exclusively PvP), WoW (selectively PvP), or, as you point out, Counterstrike (compulsorily PvP).
As you yourself point out, the social environment that evolves in each is distinct.
The researcher set out to see what happened when you behaved antisocially but within the rules of the game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602863</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Pulzar</author>
	<datestamp>1246892880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road. Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there. Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.</p></div></blockquote><p>Actually, almost every state/province has laws that prohibit going slow enough to inhibit normal flow of traffic. It's probably up to the traffic cop's discretion what that speed is, but it's illegal nonetheless.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do , but most people do n't , and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that should n't be there .
Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.Actually , almost every state/province has laws that prohibit going slow enough to inhibit normal flow of traffic .
It 's probably up to the traffic cop 's discretion what that speed is , but it 's illegal nonetheless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.
Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.Actually, almost every state/province has laws that prohibit going slow enough to inhibit normal flow of traffic.
It's probably up to the traffic cop's discretion what that speed is, but it's illegal nonetheless.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602395</id>
	<title>FPS sociology research</title>
	<author>4D6963</author>
	<datestamp>1246888860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Interesting, I performed similar research for my sociology thesis titled "Bunny Hopping : The Forbidden Hop".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Interesting , I performed similar research for my sociology thesis titled " Bunny Hopping : The Forbidden Hop " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interesting, I performed similar research for my sociology thesis titled "Bunny Hopping : The Forbidden Hop".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28611379</id>
	<title>I found his article. Here is the abstract:</title>
	<author>gnalle</author>
	<datestamp>1246994100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In this essay, I argue that human play is fundamentally
selfish. Characteristics of individual and selfish play are
observed and described within pve and pvp contexts of the
MMORPG City of Heroes/Villains (Cryptic Studios).
Analysis of player behaviors demonstrates the degree to
which groups within MMORPGs attempt to restrict and
transform individual and selfish play. In general, social
play within MMORPGs tends to reduce the diversity of
individual play; this undermines the ability of oppositional
play to explore and value game components and processes.
Conclusions recommend conceptualizing online social play
as a form of social control.
<a href="http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~cpearce3/DiGRA07/Proceedings/030.pdf" title="gatech.edu">http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~cpearce3/DiGRA07/Proceedings/030.pdf</a> [gatech.edu]
<p>It seems that he wrote it in 2006.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In this essay , I argue that human play is fundamentally selfish .
Characteristics of individual and selfish play are observed and described within pve and pvp contexts of the MMORPG City of Heroes/Villains ( Cryptic Studios ) .
Analysis of player behaviors demonstrates the degree to which groups within MMORPGs attempt to restrict and transform individual and selfish play .
In general , social play within MMORPGs tends to reduce the diversity of individual play ; this undermines the ability of oppositional play to explore and value game components and processes .
Conclusions recommend conceptualizing online social play as a form of social control .
http : //www.lcc.gatech.edu/ ~ cpearce3/DiGRA07/Proceedings/030.pdf [ gatech.edu ] It seems that he wrote it in 2006 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In this essay, I argue that human play is fundamentally
selfish.
Characteristics of individual and selfish play are
observed and described within pve and pvp contexts of the
MMORPG City of Heroes/Villains (Cryptic Studios).
Analysis of player behaviors demonstrates the degree to
which groups within MMORPGs attempt to restrict and
transform individual and selfish play.
In general, social
play within MMORPGs tends to reduce the diversity of
individual play; this undermines the ability of oppositional
play to explore and value game components and processes.
Conclusions recommend conceptualizing online social play
as a form of social control.
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~cpearce3/DiGRA07/Proceedings/030.pdf [gatech.edu]
It seems that he wrote it in 2006.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600631</id>
	<title>Re:Not Research</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246879320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist, Dr. Venkman!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe , your methods are sloppy , and your conclusions are highly questionable !
You are a poor scientist , Dr. Venkman !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable!
You are a poor scientist, Dr. Venkman!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600477</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600853</id>
	<title>Stunned?</title>
	<author>DNS-and-BIND</author>
	<datestamp>1246880340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Myers was stunned by the reaction, since he obeyed the game's rules.</i> <p>I weep for higher education.  Here we have a man with a Ph.D. and a teaching position, and he doesn't know the first thing about culture.  Is he lying when he says he was stunned?  </p><p> <i>The professor was disturbed that game rules encouraging competition and varied tactics hardly mattered to gaming community members who wanted to preserve a deeply-rooted culture.</i> </p><p>Again, how can an educated man be so ignorant?  Ah well, I suppose he's like the Ph.D.s at my mom's job - the ones who regularly send her email hoaxes, viruses, and Howard Dean campaign contribution requests.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Myers was stunned by the reaction , since he obeyed the game 's rules .
I weep for higher education .
Here we have a man with a Ph.D. and a teaching position , and he does n't know the first thing about culture .
Is he lying when he says he was stunned ?
The professor was disturbed that game rules encouraging competition and varied tactics hardly mattered to gaming community members who wanted to preserve a deeply-rooted culture .
Again , how can an educated man be so ignorant ?
Ah well , I suppose he 's like the Ph.D.s at my mom 's job - the ones who regularly send her email hoaxes , viruses , and Howard Dean campaign contribution requests .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Myers was stunned by the reaction, since he obeyed the game's rules.
I weep for higher education.
Here we have a man with a Ph.D. and a teaching position, and he doesn't know the first thing about culture.
Is he lying when he says he was stunned?
The professor was disturbed that game rules encouraging competition and varied tactics hardly mattered to gaming community members who wanted to preserve a deeply-rooted culture.
Again, how can an educated man be so ignorant?
Ah well, I suppose he's like the Ph.D.s at my mom's job - the ones who regularly send her email hoaxes, viruses, and Howard Dean campaign contribution requests.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603637</id>
	<title>Effects of Environment on Social Customs</title>
	<author>Stormy Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1246898340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Reading this article, it seemed utterly bizarre to me that players on one faction would expect players to pull their punches when fighting players from the opposing faction.  Then occured to me: that's because I'm a World of Warcraft Player: there's more emnity between our factions because players on each side have no way of communicating with each other!

Makes me wonder to what extent the unspoken customs are an unexpected result of game design choices.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Reading this article , it seemed utterly bizarre to me that players on one faction would expect players to pull their punches when fighting players from the opposing faction .
Then occured to me : that 's because I 'm a World of Warcraft Player : there 's more emnity between our factions because players on each side have no way of communicating with each other !
Makes me wonder to what extent the unspoken customs are an unexpected result of game design choices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reading this article, it seemed utterly bizarre to me that players on one faction would expect players to pull their punches when fighting players from the opposing faction.
Then occured to me: that's because I'm a World of Warcraft Player: there's more emnity between our factions because players on each side have no way of communicating with each other!
Makes me wonder to what extent the unspoken customs are an unexpected result of game design choices.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602849</id>
	<title>Re:What an ass...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246892820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>how is that quote trolling?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>how is that quote trolling ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>how is that quote trolling?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600807</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603285</id>
	<title>Re:Not a new concept</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246895760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nobody watches South Park, not for the last eight years. If it was on South Park, it's as good as never having been thought of before.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nobody watches South Park , not for the last eight years .
If it was on South Park , it 's as good as never having been thought of before .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nobody watches South Park, not for the last eight years.
If it was on South Park, it's as good as never having been thought of before.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28606621</id>
	<title>Fansy returns</title>
	<author>Inari</author>
	<datestamp>1246975020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google "Everquest Fansy Go Go Good Team"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... this guy is at best unoriginal, at worst really needs to get a life!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google " Everquest Fansy Go Go Good Team " ... this guy is at best unoriginal , at worst really needs to get a life !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google "Everquest Fansy Go Go Good Team" ... this guy is at best unoriginal, at worst really needs to get a life!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601807</id>
	<title>Re:NCSoft do not make the rules.</title>
	<author>cbhacking</author>
	<datestamp>1246885440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>See, that's the thing - NCSoft may not make *all* the rules (that would be no fun) but it is up to them to keep the game balanced. If this guy can literally send anybody he wants to face rotob death squads whenever he feels like it (and there's no counter... which seems odd, surely others can do it to him in turn), the game is just broken. That *IS* NCSoft's fault, sorry. It would be like using an aimbot in a FPS, only the aimbot is built into the game and its use is permitted on PvP servers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See , that 's the thing - NCSoft may not make * all * the rules ( that would be no fun ) but it is up to them to keep the game balanced .
If this guy can literally send anybody he wants to face rotob death squads whenever he feels like it ( and there 's no counter... which seems odd , surely others can do it to him in turn ) , the game is just broken .
That * IS * NCSoft 's fault , sorry .
It would be like using an aimbot in a FPS , only the aimbot is built into the game and its use is permitted on PvP servers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See, that's the thing - NCSoft may not make *all* the rules (that would be no fun) but it is up to them to keep the game balanced.
If this guy can literally send anybody he wants to face rotob death squads whenever he feels like it (and there's no counter... which seems odd, surely others can do it to him in turn), the game is just broken.
That *IS* NCSoft's fault, sorry.
It would be like using an aimbot in a FPS, only the aimbot is built into the game and its use is permitted on PvP servers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600659</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28607513</id>
	<title>Re:Not trolling</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246979160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An video introduction to teleporting and what you can do in CoD.<br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbXR9rIc2SE</p><p>Seems overpower to me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)  but I'm not a CoD player anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An video introduction to teleporting and what you can do in CoD.http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = zbXR9rIc2SESeems overpower to me : ) but I 'm not a CoD player anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An video introduction to teleporting and what you can do in CoD.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbXR9rIc2SESeems overpower to me :)  but I'm not a CoD player anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28607019</id>
	<title>Breaking News</title>
	<author>Viking Coder</author>
	<datestamp>1246977300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"A university professor was killed today in Texas after a three month experiment ended abruptly.  He was visiting every state capitol and burning American flags in front of them."</p><p>"A university professor was killed today in Boston after a three month experiment ended abruptly.  He was visiting every major U.S. city and driving the speed limit in the left lane."</p><p>"A university professor was killed today in Harlem after a three month experiment ended abruptly.  He was visiting urban slums wearing nothing but a speedo and a sandwich board that read, 'I HATE N*****S'."</p><p>"A deranged homeless man was killed today in Coppenhagen.  He was posing as a university professor performing three-month experiments, acting like a total douchebag.  A group of actual university professors screamed at him that he was giving them all a bad name, and then they killed him."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" A university professor was killed today in Texas after a three month experiment ended abruptly .
He was visiting every state capitol and burning American flags in front of them .
" " A university professor was killed today in Boston after a three month experiment ended abruptly .
He was visiting every major U.S. city and driving the speed limit in the left lane .
" " A university professor was killed today in Harlem after a three month experiment ended abruptly .
He was visiting urban slums wearing nothing but a speedo and a sandwich board that read , 'I HATE N * * * * * S' .
" " A deranged homeless man was killed today in Coppenhagen .
He was posing as a university professor performing three-month experiments , acting like a total douchebag .
A group of actual university professors screamed at him that he was giving them all a bad name , and then they killed him .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"A university professor was killed today in Texas after a three month experiment ended abruptly.
He was visiting every state capitol and burning American flags in front of them.
""A university professor was killed today in Boston after a three month experiment ended abruptly.
He was visiting every major U.S. city and driving the speed limit in the left lane.
""A university professor was killed today in Harlem after a three month experiment ended abruptly.
He was visiting urban slums wearing nothing but a speedo and a sandwich board that read, 'I HATE N*****S'.
""A deranged homeless man was killed today in Coppenhagen.
He was posing as a university professor performing three-month experiments, acting like a total douchebag.
A group of actual university professors screamed at him that he was giving them all a bad name, and then they killed him.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28611541</id>
	<title>Re:Carebears</title>
	<author>sabt-pestnu</author>
	<datestamp>1246994700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Intentional irony, perhaps?  Eve, the game with PvP built in?  The game of gate-camping and ganking?</p><p>Where in City of Heroes, it was Twixt succeeding against a mob of others, in Eve, the mob often plays the villain of the piece against the solo player.  Complicated, of course, by the advantages a long time player has over one much newer to the game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Intentional irony , perhaps ?
Eve , the game with PvP built in ?
The game of gate-camping and ganking ? Where in City of Heroes , it was Twixt succeeding against a mob of others , in Eve , the mob often plays the villain of the piece against the solo player .
Complicated , of course , by the advantages a long time player has over one much newer to the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Intentional irony, perhaps?
Eve, the game with PvP built in?
The game of gate-camping and ganking?Where in City of Heroes, it was Twixt succeeding against a mob of others, in Eve, the mob often plays the villain of the piece against the solo player.
Complicated, of course, by the advantages a long time player has over one much newer to the game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600571</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605155</id>
	<title>No wonder people hate me on CoH</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246959360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I play exactly like that guy. Didn't realize there was some sort of touchy feely high school club going on in the game. I just wanted to compete with other gamers in an area that appeared designed for just that. Now it explains why half the people start foaming at the mouth when I try and play a simple game.</p><p>There millions of chat rooms online, go there if you just want to talk.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I play exactly like that guy .
Did n't realize there was some sort of touchy feely high school club going on in the game .
I just wanted to compete with other gamers in an area that appeared designed for just that .
Now it explains why half the people start foaming at the mouth when I try and play a simple game.There millions of chat rooms online , go there if you just want to talk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I play exactly like that guy.
Didn't realize there was some sort of touchy feely high school club going on in the game.
I just wanted to compete with other gamers in an area that appeared designed for just that.
Now it explains why half the people start foaming at the mouth when I try and play a simple game.There millions of chat rooms online, go there if you just want to talk.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601257</id>
	<title>Griefer is reviled</title>
	<author>Johnny Mnemonic</author>
	<datestamp>1246882620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and writes book describing why it's ok to be a Griefer.</p><p>More surprising to me was that in CoH/V PvP is not played as described.  I play WoW, on both PvP and carebear servers, and boy do I get ganked whenever I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time.  There is no such "polite agreement" between Ally and Horde in WoW.  How did one get established in CoH/V?</p><p>And while it does indeed suck to get griefed and ganked by the opposing forces, esp when I am no threat to them, if it starts bothering me much I just go do something else for awhile.  The Alliance can't be roaming Tarren Mill all of the time?  Can they?  But it seems like I did have to log in in the Early AM Server Time in order to complete some of those quests.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and writes book describing why it 's ok to be a Griefer.More surprising to me was that in CoH/V PvP is not played as described .
I play WoW , on both PvP and carebear servers , and boy do I get ganked whenever I 'm in the wrong place at the wrong time .
There is no such " polite agreement " between Ally and Horde in WoW .
How did one get established in CoH/V ? And while it does indeed suck to get griefed and ganked by the opposing forces , esp when I am no threat to them , if it starts bothering me much I just go do something else for awhile .
The Alliance ca n't be roaming Tarren Mill all of the time ?
Can they ?
But it seems like I did have to log in in the Early AM Server Time in order to complete some of those quests .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and writes book describing why it's ok to be a Griefer.More surprising to me was that in CoH/V PvP is not played as described.
I play WoW, on both PvP and carebear servers, and boy do I get ganked whenever I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time.
There is no such "polite agreement" between Ally and Horde in WoW.
How did one get established in CoH/V?And while it does indeed suck to get griefed and ganked by the opposing forces, esp when I am no threat to them, if it starts bothering me much I just go do something else for awhile.
The Alliance can't be roaming Tarren Mill all of the time?
Can they?
But it seems like I did have to log in in the Early AM Server Time in order to complete some of those quests.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28611881</id>
	<title>Re:Not Research</title>
	<author>Spellvexit</author>
	<datestamp>1246995840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am puzzled that he was so surprised at the outcomes of his actions.  Feel free to pass it off as some sort of experiment if you like, but it seemed like he was using almost exploitative techniques to kill people.  Couple that with the fact that he just stormed into a room and started killing people -- most folks, being the social creatures they are, do a little bit of social reconnaissance before they start to act.  It seems he had already observed the social conventions in the room and made a butthead character to antagonize them -- why did he find it so shocking that people reacted negatively?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am puzzled that he was so surprised at the outcomes of his actions .
Feel free to pass it off as some sort of experiment if you like , but it seemed like he was using almost exploitative techniques to kill people .
Couple that with the fact that he just stormed into a room and started killing people -- most folks , being the social creatures they are , do a little bit of social reconnaissance before they start to act .
It seems he had already observed the social conventions in the room and made a butthead character to antagonize them -- why did he find it so shocking that people reacted negatively ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am puzzled that he was so surprised at the outcomes of his actions.
Feel free to pass it off as some sort of experiment if you like, but it seemed like he was using almost exploitative techniques to kill people.
Couple that with the fact that he just stormed into a room and started killing people -- most folks, being the social creatures they are, do a little bit of social reconnaissance before they start to act.
It seems he had already observed the social conventions in the room and made a butthead character to antagonize them -- why did he find it so shocking that people reacted negatively?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600477</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</id>
	<title>Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Valdrax</author>
	<datestamp>1246881840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Basically, he played the game (actually fighting villains) and was hated for it. Not because he was being vile or crude (indeed, completely contrary to what you suggest) but by violating game defeating "customs." Why the hell have a city full of heroes and villains, if the villains and heroes just idly chat and don't actually fight each other?</p></div><p>Because people actually <em>like</em> it that way?  I mean, who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force?</p><p>Why do you say that going around beating up villains is actually "playing the game" and the people standing around and chatting aren't?  Who gets to say what the game actually is?  The developers or the people who play it?</p><p>In the real world, the people who make the laws of our society are our society's "developers," but the people who actually live in the world, or the "players," often set up unwritten rules.  Just because the law says that something is okay, doesn't mean that it really is.</p><p>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.  Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.  Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.</p><p>In terms of the game, the people who play City of Heroes have decided as a community what kind of behavior is acceptable.  You only get to go PVP with people who have consented, and the arena is a place for people on other sides of the Heroes / Villains game split to be able to chat otherwise.  It's a like a dance club where someone has decided that just because he's a man and you're a woman that he gets to bump and grind against you even if you're not interested.  ("That's what dance clubs are for!  Why is everyone ganging up on poor little me?")</p><p>I won't say that the abusive behavior of some of the angered players was acceptable, but this researcher is a space cadet if he thinks that what he was doing was perfectly kosher and/or commendable or that the reactions to his griefing were surprising.  He was using the game's equivalent of violent force to tell people how to play the game and not respecting people when they said that they didn't like playing the way he did.  Nobody likes someone who goes around ganking people for "playing wrong."</p><p>If he really thinks that the community's reaction to him "marching to the beat of a different drummer" is so horrible, then I wonder what he would think of someone driving by his home at 3:00 AM every night with the bass cranked up.  Bold iconoclast?  Or someone that he wished the cops would deal with?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Basically , he played the game ( actually fighting villains ) and was hated for it .
Not because he was being vile or crude ( indeed , completely contrary to what you suggest ) but by violating game defeating " customs .
" Why the hell have a city full of heroes and villains , if the villains and heroes just idly chat and do n't actually fight each other ? Because people actually like it that way ?
I mean , who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force ? Why do you say that going around beating up villains is actually " playing the game " and the people standing around and chatting are n't ?
Who gets to say what the game actually is ?
The developers or the people who play it ? In the real world , the people who make the laws of our society are our society 's " developers , " but the people who actually live in the world , or the " players , " often set up unwritten rules .
Just because the law says that something is okay , does n't mean that it really is.It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do , but most people do n't , and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that should n't be there .
Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.In terms of the game , the people who play City of Heroes have decided as a community what kind of behavior is acceptable .
You only get to go PVP with people who have consented , and the arena is a place for people on other sides of the Heroes / Villains game split to be able to chat otherwise .
It 's a like a dance club where someone has decided that just because he 's a man and you 're a woman that he gets to bump and grind against you even if you 're not interested .
( " That 's what dance clubs are for !
Why is everyone ganging up on poor little me ?
" ) I wo n't say that the abusive behavior of some of the angered players was acceptable , but this researcher is a space cadet if he thinks that what he was doing was perfectly kosher and/or commendable or that the reactions to his griefing were surprising .
He was using the game 's equivalent of violent force to tell people how to play the game and not respecting people when they said that they did n't like playing the way he did .
Nobody likes someone who goes around ganking people for " playing wrong .
" If he really thinks that the community 's reaction to him " marching to the beat of a different drummer " is so horrible , then I wonder what he would think of someone driving by his home at 3 : 00 AM every night with the bass cranked up .
Bold iconoclast ?
Or someone that he wished the cops would deal with ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basically, he played the game (actually fighting villains) and was hated for it.
Not because he was being vile or crude (indeed, completely contrary to what you suggest) but by violating game defeating "customs.
" Why the hell have a city full of heroes and villains, if the villains and heroes just idly chat and don't actually fight each other?Because people actually like it that way?
I mean, who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force?Why do you say that going around beating up villains is actually "playing the game" and the people standing around and chatting aren't?
Who gets to say what the game actually is?
The developers or the people who play it?In the real world, the people who make the laws of our society are our society's "developers," but the people who actually live in the world, or the "players," often set up unwritten rules.
Just because the law says that something is okay, doesn't mean that it really is.It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.
Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.In terms of the game, the people who play City of Heroes have decided as a community what kind of behavior is acceptable.
You only get to go PVP with people who have consented, and the arena is a place for people on other sides of the Heroes / Villains game split to be able to chat otherwise.
It's a like a dance club where someone has decided that just because he's a man and you're a woman that he gets to bump and grind against you even if you're not interested.
("That's what dance clubs are for!
Why is everyone ganging up on poor little me?
")I won't say that the abusive behavior of some of the angered players was acceptable, but this researcher is a space cadet if he thinks that what he was doing was perfectly kosher and/or commendable or that the reactions to his griefing were surprising.
He was using the game's equivalent of violent force to tell people how to play the game and not respecting people when they said that they didn't like playing the way he did.
Nobody likes someone who goes around ganking people for "playing wrong.
"If he really thinks that the community's reaction to him "marching to the beat of a different drummer" is so horrible, then I wonder what he would think of someone driving by his home at 3:00 AM every night with the bass cranked up.
Bold iconoclast?
Or someone that he wished the cops would deal with?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603653</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>chef\_raekwon</author>
	<datestamp>1246898400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>sorry dude -- and not to downplay what the original post is about...but i played JK2, and the rest of the game sucked ass.  The only decent part *was* the sabering<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. so, playing on a server where getting into duels was pretty much the best part. If you honestly wanted to shoot a guy (who happened to be running around with a saber) with a pistol<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. it turned into the proverbial 'knife to a gun fight'.  saberists didnt stand a chance<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. and it ruined the game so to speak. infact, it just turned the coolness of having a saber into unreal tournament without the headshots.</p><p>and who wanted that?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>sorry dude -- and not to downplay what the original post is about...but i played JK2 , and the rest of the game sucked ass .
The only decent part * was * the sabering .. so , playing on a server where getting into duels was pretty much the best part .
If you honestly wanted to shoot a guy ( who happened to be running around with a saber ) with a pistol .. it turned into the proverbial 'knife to a gun fight' .
saberists didnt stand a chance .. and it ruined the game so to speak .
infact , it just turned the coolness of having a saber into unreal tournament without the headshots.and who wanted that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sorry dude -- and not to downplay what the original post is about...but i played JK2, and the rest of the game sucked ass.
The only decent part *was* the sabering .. so, playing on a server where getting into duels was pretty much the best part.
If you honestly wanted to shoot a guy (who happened to be running around with a saber) with a pistol .. it turned into the proverbial 'knife to a gun fight'.
saberists didnt stand a chance .. and it ruined the game so to speak.
infact, it just turned the coolness of having a saber into unreal tournament without the headshots.and who wanted that?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601911</id>
	<title>Re:Griefer is reviled</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246886040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In CoH/V, PvP isn't generally done.</p><p>That's not to say it's nonexistant. It's just not as big a draw(for many reasons) in CoH/V.</p><p><a href="http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Player\_vs\_Player" title="wikia.com" rel="nofollow">http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Player\_vs\_Player</a> [wikia.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In CoH/V , PvP is n't generally done.That 's not to say it 's nonexistant .
It 's just not as big a draw ( for many reasons ) in CoH/V.http : //cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Player \ _vs \ _Player [ wikia.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In CoH/V, PvP isn't generally done.That's not to say it's nonexistant.
It's just not as big a draw(for many reasons) in CoH/V.http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Player\_vs\_Player [wikia.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601257</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602435</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246889160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Attention, the traffic LAWS say "Slower traffic keep right."  Meaning if you are driving slowly in the left hand lane, and impeding traffic behind you, YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW.</p><p>You should be pulled over and immediately executed in a violent, gory manner.  Especially if you have children in the car. "Don't drive like your mommy!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Attention , the traffic LAWS say " Slower traffic keep right .
" Meaning if you are driving slowly in the left hand lane , and impeding traffic behind you , YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW.You should be pulled over and immediately executed in a violent , gory manner .
Especially if you have children in the car .
" Do n't drive like your mommy !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Attention, the traffic LAWS say "Slower traffic keep right.
"  Meaning if you are driving slowly in the left hand lane, and impeding traffic behind you, YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW.You should be pulled over and immediately executed in a violent, gory manner.
Especially if you have children in the car.
"Don't drive like your mommy!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602529</id>
	<title>Re:Griefer is reviled</title>
	<author>Kingrames</author>
	<datestamp>1246889880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In wow, just about the only communication you get from the other team is the obvious "lol", and the teabag.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In wow , just about the only communication you get from the other team is the obvious " lol " , and the teabag .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In wow, just about the only communication you get from the other team is the obvious "lol", and the teabag.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601257</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602741</id>
	<title>Well, he's right... but wrong.</title>
	<author>tnok85</author>
	<datestamp>1246891860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm an advocate of 'letter of the law' in games. (And in real life, if you don't mind being an outcast)<br><br>I play EVE Online, and I love that aspect of it. As long as you don't break any laws, you're fine. And even if you do, you only take in game penalties, and perhaps the hatred of your peers.<br><br>What annoys me is that he seems surprised about being hated. No shit, sherlock. Try going to work in say, a Network Operations Center, and eating a ton of bean burritos every day before work and intentionally fart as much as you can, especially when standing right next to or in front of people. Sure, you're not breaking any laws, but you can gaurentee you'll be hated and an outcast for it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm an advocate of 'letter of the law ' in games .
( And in real life , if you do n't mind being an outcast ) I play EVE Online , and I love that aspect of it .
As long as you do n't break any laws , you 're fine .
And even if you do , you only take in game penalties , and perhaps the hatred of your peers.What annoys me is that he seems surprised about being hated .
No shit , sherlock .
Try going to work in say , a Network Operations Center , and eating a ton of bean burritos every day before work and intentionally fart as much as you can , especially when standing right next to or in front of people .
Sure , you 're not breaking any laws , but you can gaurentee you 'll be hated and an outcast for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm an advocate of 'letter of the law' in games.
(And in real life, if you don't mind being an outcast)I play EVE Online, and I love that aspect of it.
As long as you don't break any laws, you're fine.
And even if you do, you only take in game penalties, and perhaps the hatred of your peers.What annoys me is that he seems surprised about being hated.
No shit, sherlock.
Try going to work in say, a Network Operations Center, and eating a ton of bean burritos every day before work and intentionally fart as much as you can, especially when standing right next to or in front of people.
Sure, you're not breaking any laws, but you can gaurentee you'll be hated and an outcast for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602107</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>[sarcasm]I see your point.  Almost everyone is a fucking gay wannabe, so when someone comes along and REALLY plays the game, he's just an asshole.[/sarcasm]</p><p>I play war games.  I play to kill.   Some sissy crybaby comes to my game world, I'm going to rape him/her for whatever they have of value.  If they want to hang out with a bunch of pansies, and talk about how great they are in bed, they can do it elsewhere.  Give them a link for some pastel wallpaper for their gayspace page, and get them out of the game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>[ sarcasm ] I see your point .
Almost everyone is a fucking gay wannabe , so when someone comes along and REALLY plays the game , he 's just an asshole .
[ /sarcasm ] I play war games .
I play to kill .
Some sissy crybaby comes to my game world , I 'm going to rape him/her for whatever they have of value .
If they want to hang out with a bunch of pansies , and talk about how great they are in bed , they can do it elsewhere .
Give them a link for some pastel wallpaper for their gayspace page , and get them out of the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[sarcasm]I see your point.
Almost everyone is a fucking gay wannabe, so when someone comes along and REALLY plays the game, he's just an asshole.
[/sarcasm]I play war games.
I play to kill.
Some sissy crybaby comes to my game world, I'm going to rape him/her for whatever they have of value.
If they want to hang out with a bunch of pansies, and talk about how great they are in bed, they can do it elsewhere.
Give them a link for some pastel wallpaper for their gayspace page, and get them out of the game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609733</id>
	<title>Re:Full Court Press</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1246987680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The full-court press is merely a tactic which can be defended against if you know how. It is by no means the magic bullet you seem to think it is. (Besides which, attempting to play full-court press for any length of time would be exhausting.)</p><p>I agree, though, that it is the fault of the game. Teleporting someone into your team's "safe" zone so they'll be instantly killed should be impossible. I don't see why it would be difficult to patch the game to prevent it. If the end location of the teleport would be inside a safe zone, inform the player who cast the spell that they can't do that. Maybe even make it rebound and hurt them a little, since they're being a real asshole by employing that tactic in the first place (of course, they'd quickly stop, but still).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The full-court press is merely a tactic which can be defended against if you know how .
It is by no means the magic bullet you seem to think it is .
( Besides which , attempting to play full-court press for any length of time would be exhausting .
) I agree , though , that it is the fault of the game .
Teleporting someone into your team 's " safe " zone so they 'll be instantly killed should be impossible .
I do n't see why it would be difficult to patch the game to prevent it .
If the end location of the teleport would be inside a safe zone , inform the player who cast the spell that they ca n't do that .
Maybe even make it rebound and hurt them a little , since they 're being a real asshole by employing that tactic in the first place ( of course , they 'd quickly stop , but still ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The full-court press is merely a tactic which can be defended against if you know how.
It is by no means the magic bullet you seem to think it is.
(Besides which, attempting to play full-court press for any length of time would be exhausting.
)I agree, though, that it is the fault of the game.
Teleporting someone into your team's "safe" zone so they'll be instantly killed should be impossible.
I don't see why it would be difficult to patch the game to prevent it.
If the end location of the teleport would be inside a safe zone, inform the player who cast the spell that they can't do that.
Maybe even make it rebound and hurt them a little, since they're being a real asshole by employing that tactic in the first place (of course, they'd quickly stop, but still).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600619</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28607495</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>BarryJacobsen</author>
	<datestamp>1246979100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.  Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.</p></div><p>That is (generally) incorrect.  Slower traffic is generally required to be in the right lane per law - source: <a href="http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html" title="mit.edu">http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html</a> [mit.edu]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do , but most people do n't , and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that should n't be there.That is ( generally ) incorrect .
Slower traffic is generally required to be in the right lane per law - source : http : //www.mit.edu/ ~ jfc/right.html [ mit.edu ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.That is (generally) incorrect.
Slower traffic is generally required to be in the right lane per law - source: http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html [mit.edu]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28610399</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>smellsofbikes</author>
	<datestamp>1246990440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>FWIW there are plenty of states (Colorado being one I know about) in which it *is* specifically illegal to drive in the left lane if you're not passing someone in the right lane.  It is not currently generally a primary offense (meaning the cops won't pull you over just for doing that) but it is certainly a ticketable offense and I know people who have been ticketed for doing so when pulled over for something else.  I've heard reports that cops have pulled people over for only this, but I don't know this for sure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>FWIW there are plenty of states ( Colorado being one I know about ) in which it * is * specifically illegal to drive in the left lane if you 're not passing someone in the right lane .
It is not currently generally a primary offense ( meaning the cops wo n't pull you over just for doing that ) but it is certainly a ticketable offense and I know people who have been ticketed for doing so when pulled over for something else .
I 've heard reports that cops have pulled people over for only this , but I do n't know this for sure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FWIW there are plenty of states (Colorado being one I know about) in which it *is* specifically illegal to drive in the left lane if you're not passing someone in the right lane.
It is not currently generally a primary offense (meaning the cops won't pull you over just for doing that) but it is certainly a ticketable offense and I know people who have been ticketed for doing so when pulled over for something else.
I've heard reports that cops have pulled people over for only this, but I don't know this for sure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600681</id>
	<title>Anti-scoial != Indepedent/Mainstream</title>
	<author>Akoman</author>
	<datestamp>1246879620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The professor seems surprisingly disappointed by the scorn heaped on his not-mainstream behaviour. He tries to liken it to cliques in high school, but the reality is he didn't just not follow rules, but he actively tried to destroy an existing social fabric and actively molested participants. He tries to paint his behaviour as 'following the rules, but independent' without the most important piece of information 'also, I actively antagonised people.' This is akin to painting himself a geek when really he's a bully (to follow on his high school example)</htmltext>
<tokenext>The professor seems surprisingly disappointed by the scorn heaped on his not-mainstream behaviour .
He tries to liken it to cliques in high school , but the reality is he did n't just not follow rules , but he actively tried to destroy an existing social fabric and actively molested participants .
He tries to paint his behaviour as 'following the rules , but independent ' without the most important piece of information 'also , I actively antagonised people .
' This is akin to painting himself a geek when really he 's a bully ( to follow on his high school example )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The professor seems surprisingly disappointed by the scorn heaped on his not-mainstream behaviour.
He tries to liken it to cliques in high school, but the reality is he didn't just not follow rules, but he actively tried to destroy an existing social fabric and actively molested participants.
He tries to paint his behaviour as 'following the rules, but independent' without the most important piece of information 'also, I actively antagonised people.
' This is akin to painting himself a geek when really he's a bully (to follow on his high school example)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600577</id>
	<title>Not a new concept</title>
	<author>ls671</author>
	<datestamp>1246879080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is not a new concept, it has been covered in one episode of South Park where some guy kills everybody in WOW and the kids get together to defeat him.</p><p>I mean, if it has been covered in South Park, I would guess this occurred in other games before. Still interesting to see the similarities with the South Park episode although....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is not a new concept , it has been covered in one episode of South Park where some guy kills everybody in WOW and the kids get together to defeat him.I mean , if it has been covered in South Park , I would guess this occurred in other games before .
Still interesting to see the similarities with the South Park episode although... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is not a new concept, it has been covered in one episode of South Park where some guy kills everybody in WOW and the kids get together to defeat him.I mean, if it has been covered in South Park, I would guess this occurred in other games before.
Still interesting to see the similarities with the South Park episode although....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601447</id>
	<title>wow...</title>
	<author>roc97007</author>
	<datestamp>1246883580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Caveat:  I haven't played online games in years.
</p><p>
His behavior makes me wonder what he's like in real life.  I'm reminded of the lawyer who decided that a cleaner's "customer satisfaction guaranteed" sign meant he could demand $54 Million for a pair of lost pants, on the theory that he wasn't satisfied until he got that amount, and the shop had guaranteed his satisfaction.
</p><p>
There is the letter of the law, and there is what is collectively considered proper.  I'm sure the "researcher" knows that.  I wonder how he behaves in real life; if he is rude and inconsiderate and takes advantage of people where the rules don't specifically forbid his behavior.  For instance, if you're not fussy, you can live on water, condiments and free pretzels whilst surfing the web on the restaurant's free wifi, at least until the owner points out that these things are intended as perks for paying customers.  Of course, this lets you be stunned and saddened that the owner would get mad at you, since this policy isn't on a sign anywhere.  Maybe even write an academic paper about it.
</p><p>
Parenthetically, I wonder is if he wasn't exploiting a weakness in the game.  He must have been good at the game to make it to the arena, but his "power" seems to give him an unbeatable advantage.  Reminds me of a similar weakness in a game I played years ago -- you could mount the longest range weapon on a fast chassis and be essentially unbeatable, because you could stay out of everyone's range and still tag them.  In order to make the game enjoyable, we had to all adopt this tactic, which would defeat 90\% of the point of the game, or agree that nobody does it.
</p><p>
The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that the "researcher" has merely found a different way to deliberately piss people off and then whine that nobody likes him.  It's no different from being a dick on Usenet from an anonymous account.  (Esh, I'm showing my age.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Caveat : I have n't played online games in years .
His behavior makes me wonder what he 's like in real life .
I 'm reminded of the lawyer who decided that a cleaner 's " customer satisfaction guaranteed " sign meant he could demand $ 54 Million for a pair of lost pants , on the theory that he was n't satisfied until he got that amount , and the shop had guaranteed his satisfaction .
There is the letter of the law , and there is what is collectively considered proper .
I 'm sure the " researcher " knows that .
I wonder how he behaves in real life ; if he is rude and inconsiderate and takes advantage of people where the rules do n't specifically forbid his behavior .
For instance , if you 're not fussy , you can live on water , condiments and free pretzels whilst surfing the web on the restaurant 's free wifi , at least until the owner points out that these things are intended as perks for paying customers .
Of course , this lets you be stunned and saddened that the owner would get mad at you , since this policy is n't on a sign anywhere .
Maybe even write an academic paper about it .
Parenthetically , I wonder is if he was n't exploiting a weakness in the game .
He must have been good at the game to make it to the arena , but his " power " seems to give him an unbeatable advantage .
Reminds me of a similar weakness in a game I played years ago -- you could mount the longest range weapon on a fast chassis and be essentially unbeatable , because you could stay out of everyone 's range and still tag them .
In order to make the game enjoyable , we had to all adopt this tactic , which would defeat 90 \ % of the point of the game , or agree that nobody does it .
The more I think about it , the more it seems to me that the " researcher " has merely found a different way to deliberately piss people off and then whine that nobody likes him .
It 's no different from being a dick on Usenet from an anonymous account .
( Esh , I 'm showing my age .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Caveat:  I haven't played online games in years.
His behavior makes me wonder what he's like in real life.
I'm reminded of the lawyer who decided that a cleaner's "customer satisfaction guaranteed" sign meant he could demand $54 Million for a pair of lost pants, on the theory that he wasn't satisfied until he got that amount, and the shop had guaranteed his satisfaction.
There is the letter of the law, and there is what is collectively considered proper.
I'm sure the "researcher" knows that.
I wonder how he behaves in real life; if he is rude and inconsiderate and takes advantage of people where the rules don't specifically forbid his behavior.
For instance, if you're not fussy, you can live on water, condiments and free pretzels whilst surfing the web on the restaurant's free wifi, at least until the owner points out that these things are intended as perks for paying customers.
Of course, this lets you be stunned and saddened that the owner would get mad at you, since this policy isn't on a sign anywhere.
Maybe even write an academic paper about it.
Parenthetically, I wonder is if he wasn't exploiting a weakness in the game.
He must have been good at the game to make it to the arena, but his "power" seems to give him an unbeatable advantage.
Reminds me of a similar weakness in a game I played years ago -- you could mount the longest range weapon on a fast chassis and be essentially unbeatable, because you could stay out of everyone's range and still tag them.
In order to make the game enjoyable, we had to all adopt this tactic, which would defeat 90\% of the point of the game, or agree that nobody does it.
The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that the "researcher" has merely found a different way to deliberately piss people off and then whine that nobody likes him.
It's no different from being a dick on Usenet from an anonymous account.
(Esh, I'm showing my age.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609931</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>WNight</author>
	<datestamp>1246988580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.</p></div><p>No, having rules (This area is for PVP) which are not expected to be obeyed is anti-social.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>You only get to go PVP with people who have consented</p></div><p>No, he "got" to PVP anyone he wanted. Seems like you're mistaken.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>It's a like a dance club where someone has decided that just because he's a man and you're a woman that he gets to bump and grind against you even if you're not interested.</p></div><p>Oh yes, think of the honor of a girl. OMG. Because touching a character in a game is RAPE!</p><p>Or, think of crybabies who sit in PVP zones and don't want to be hit when they aren't ready.</p><p><i>That's what PVP zones are for!</i></p><p>I've paid for this virtual equivalent of paintball. So quit ruining my game by adding all your pussy rules to it and simply shut up about getting hit by paintballs - if your mask is on and your flag isn't out, you're a target.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>the people who play City of Heroes have decided as a community</p></div><p>No, the whiners who play CoH have decided to cry every time someone does something they don't like, and because whiners are far louder than normal people the community quickly becomes flooded with pathetic attention seekers demanding that everyone stop what they were doing and cater to them.</p><p>I remember being at a party with a guy who was telling a bunch of fascinated people stuff about spiders, the big, the fast, etc. This friend comes over and inserts herself, hears the topic - has a "ugh, I *hate* spiders" moment and then when conversation returns to spiders, asks if we didn't hear her and demands we stop... Umm, lots of other conversations going on - pick one. But rather than deal with shrill lady yet again everyone grumbled and let her get her way.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>He was using the game's equivalent of violent force</p></div><p>That's ridiculous. Like saying placing a stone in Go is analogous to waging war. That game has no equivalent of violence - you know, where something happens to you and you may never be all right again. The cartoon characters just respawn, their players unharmed. So he's really using the equivalent of speech.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.No , having rules ( This area is for PVP ) which are not expected to be obeyed is anti-social.You only get to go PVP with people who have consentedNo , he " got " to PVP anyone he wanted .
Seems like you 're mistaken.It 's a like a dance club where someone has decided that just because he 's a man and you 're a woman that he gets to bump and grind against you even if you 're not interested.Oh yes , think of the honor of a girl .
OMG. Because touching a character in a game is RAPE ! Or , think of crybabies who sit in PVP zones and do n't want to be hit when they are n't ready.That 's what PVP zones are for ! I 've paid for this virtual equivalent of paintball .
So quit ruining my game by adding all your pussy rules to it and simply shut up about getting hit by paintballs - if your mask is on and your flag is n't out , you 're a target.the people who play City of Heroes have decided as a communityNo , the whiners who play CoH have decided to cry every time someone does something they do n't like , and because whiners are far louder than normal people the community quickly becomes flooded with pathetic attention seekers demanding that everyone stop what they were doing and cater to them.I remember being at a party with a guy who was telling a bunch of fascinated people stuff about spiders , the big , the fast , etc .
This friend comes over and inserts herself , hears the topic - has a " ugh , I * hate * spiders " moment and then when conversation returns to spiders , asks if we did n't hear her and demands we stop... Umm , lots of other conversations going on - pick one .
But rather than deal with shrill lady yet again everyone grumbled and let her get her way.He was using the game 's equivalent of violent forceThat 's ridiculous .
Like saying placing a stone in Go is analogous to waging war .
That game has no equivalent of violence - you know , where something happens to you and you may never be all right again .
The cartoon characters just respawn , their players unharmed .
So he 's really using the equivalent of speech .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ignoring custom in favor of only the rules in print is antisocial behavior.No, having rules (This area is for PVP) which are not expected to be obeyed is anti-social.You only get to go PVP with people who have consentedNo, he "got" to PVP anyone he wanted.
Seems like you're mistaken.It's a like a dance club where someone has decided that just because he's a man and you're a woman that he gets to bump and grind against you even if you're not interested.Oh yes, think of the honor of a girl.
OMG. Because touching a character in a game is RAPE!Or, think of crybabies who sit in PVP zones and don't want to be hit when they aren't ready.That's what PVP zones are for!I've paid for this virtual equivalent of paintball.
So quit ruining my game by adding all your pussy rules to it and simply shut up about getting hit by paintballs - if your mask is on and your flag isn't out, you're a target.the people who play City of Heroes have decided as a communityNo, the whiners who play CoH have decided to cry every time someone does something they don't like, and because whiners are far louder than normal people the community quickly becomes flooded with pathetic attention seekers demanding that everyone stop what they were doing and cater to them.I remember being at a party with a guy who was telling a bunch of fascinated people stuff about spiders, the big, the fast, etc.
This friend comes over and inserts herself, hears the topic - has a "ugh, I *hate* spiders" moment and then when conversation returns to spiders, asks if we didn't hear her and demands we stop... Umm, lots of other conversations going on - pick one.
But rather than deal with shrill lady yet again everyone grumbled and let her get her way.He was using the game's equivalent of violent forceThat's ridiculous.
Like saying placing a stone in Go is analogous to waging war.
That game has no equivalent of violence - you know, where something happens to you and you may never be all right again.
The cartoon characters just respawn, their players unharmed.
So he's really using the equivalent of speech.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601859</id>
	<title>Re:Was this ethical?</title>
	<author>anarche</author>
	<datestamp>1246885680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>He conducted research on humans, without their consent, and it may have involved children and deception. I sure hope this was institutional review board approved, as he has basically checked off all the high risk criteria that require a full board review and probably requires oversight to be considered ethical. If it was not, his paper should be withdrawn by the publisher, his university should sanction him and he should be ineligible for future government grants.</p></div><p>Only decent post on this thread...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He conducted research on humans , without their consent , and it may have involved children and deception .
I sure hope this was institutional review board approved , as he has basically checked off all the high risk criteria that require a full board review and probably requires oversight to be considered ethical .
If it was not , his paper should be withdrawn by the publisher , his university should sanction him and he should be ineligible for future government grants.Only decent post on this thread.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He conducted research on humans, without their consent, and it may have involved children and deception.
I sure hope this was institutional review board approved, as he has basically checked off all the high risk criteria that require a full board review and probably requires oversight to be considered ethical.
If it was not, his paper should be withdrawn by the publisher, his university should sanction him and he should be ineligible for future government grants.Only decent post on this thread...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28610775</id>
	<title>Re:Both sides of the mouth..</title>
	<author>Kethryvis</author>
	<datestamp>1246991880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i'm coming to this party late i admit, but i'm an anthropology grad student and can make a few comments.</p><p>For one, no this guy was not an anthropologist of any flavor. The article states he's a "media professor." i have my own biases about media/comm studies people... but i digress on that.</p><p>An anthropologist would never go about doing research in this fashion; and i have to admit one of the reasons this article bothers me is due to my own discipline's outlines and ethics. We do participant observation and we have to tell our participants that we are studying them, and give those people the right to opt out of being in our study group and then we are ethically bound to respect that opt out.  We're not allowed to experiment in this fashion; pulling strings to play "what happens?" We only observe, and participate as much as possible.</p><p>As to the content of the article, i haven't played CoH, but i study online communities so i can give a brief comment based on my own observations and readings.</p><p>My small opinion of what's going on here is this (note: i haven't read his paper yet, just the article). Yes, the developers have their rules. But as another commenter has pointed out, the community has made its own subset of community expectations which happens in any community; there are The Big Rules, and then the Community Rules that lay under those.</p><p>Also in virtual worlds there are many, many, many instances of communities using the worlds in ways that the developers never intended. Linden Lab did not intend for Second Life to become a huge social hub, they really meant for it to be a hub for creation and creativity (according to Thomas Malaby, in his book \_Making Virtual Worlds: Linden Lab and Second Life\_).  As the community finds new ways to use the world and the tools the developers have given them, then the developer has to decide which of these new ways to encourage, which ones to let languish, if any!  They have to decide whether to push their own agenda to the detriment of the community uses, or encourage the community uses and still bolster their own ideas, etc. etc.</p><p>There's an interesting dynamic (which my research will be looking at) between developer and community.  Who holds more power, how much each stakeholder decides to give in to another, etc.</p><p>At any rate, he was playing within the developer rules, but the community he was in had its own set of rules subset to that.  So was he really following the rules? Who makes the rules in these virtual world spaces? to me those are the more interesting questions, not what Prof. Myers "discovered." What he "discovered" was nothing new and really, online worlds are reflections of the offline world.  People are this rude in the Big Blue Room, a bit more muted as the anonymity of the 'Net allows us to be more bold, but you still see this type of action out here in the "real" world.</p><p>Just my 2 cents in whatever currency (virtual or otherwise) you want to put it in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i 'm coming to this party late i admit , but i 'm an anthropology grad student and can make a few comments.For one , no this guy was not an anthropologist of any flavor .
The article states he 's a " media professor .
" i have my own biases about media/comm studies people... but i digress on that.An anthropologist would never go about doing research in this fashion ; and i have to admit one of the reasons this article bothers me is due to my own discipline 's outlines and ethics .
We do participant observation and we have to tell our participants that we are studying them , and give those people the right to opt out of being in our study group and then we are ethically bound to respect that opt out .
We 're not allowed to experiment in this fashion ; pulling strings to play " what happens ?
" We only observe , and participate as much as possible.As to the content of the article , i have n't played CoH , but i study online communities so i can give a brief comment based on my own observations and readings.My small opinion of what 's going on here is this ( note : i have n't read his paper yet , just the article ) .
Yes , the developers have their rules .
But as another commenter has pointed out , the community has made its own subset of community expectations which happens in any community ; there are The Big Rules , and then the Community Rules that lay under those.Also in virtual worlds there are many , many , many instances of communities using the worlds in ways that the developers never intended .
Linden Lab did not intend for Second Life to become a huge social hub , they really meant for it to be a hub for creation and creativity ( according to Thomas Malaby , in his book \ _Making Virtual Worlds : Linden Lab and Second Life \ _ ) .
As the community finds new ways to use the world and the tools the developers have given them , then the developer has to decide which of these new ways to encourage , which ones to let languish , if any !
They have to decide whether to push their own agenda to the detriment of the community uses , or encourage the community uses and still bolster their own ideas , etc .
etc.There 's an interesting dynamic ( which my research will be looking at ) between developer and community .
Who holds more power , how much each stakeholder decides to give in to another , etc.At any rate , he was playing within the developer rules , but the community he was in had its own set of rules subset to that .
So was he really following the rules ?
Who makes the rules in these virtual world spaces ?
to me those are the more interesting questions , not what Prof. Myers " discovered .
" What he " discovered " was nothing new and really , online worlds are reflections of the offline world .
People are this rude in the Big Blue Room , a bit more muted as the anonymity of the 'Net allows us to be more bold , but you still see this type of action out here in the " real " world.Just my 2 cents in whatever currency ( virtual or otherwise ) you want to put it in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i'm coming to this party late i admit, but i'm an anthropology grad student and can make a few comments.For one, no this guy was not an anthropologist of any flavor.
The article states he's a "media professor.
" i have my own biases about media/comm studies people... but i digress on that.An anthropologist would never go about doing research in this fashion; and i have to admit one of the reasons this article bothers me is due to my own discipline's outlines and ethics.
We do participant observation and we have to tell our participants that we are studying them, and give those people the right to opt out of being in our study group and then we are ethically bound to respect that opt out.
We're not allowed to experiment in this fashion; pulling strings to play "what happens?
" We only observe, and participate as much as possible.As to the content of the article, i haven't played CoH, but i study online communities so i can give a brief comment based on my own observations and readings.My small opinion of what's going on here is this (note: i haven't read his paper yet, just the article).
Yes, the developers have their rules.
But as another commenter has pointed out, the community has made its own subset of community expectations which happens in any community; there are The Big Rules, and then the Community Rules that lay under those.Also in virtual worlds there are many, many, many instances of communities using the worlds in ways that the developers never intended.
Linden Lab did not intend for Second Life to become a huge social hub, they really meant for it to be a hub for creation and creativity (according to Thomas Malaby, in his book \_Making Virtual Worlds: Linden Lab and Second Life\_).
As the community finds new ways to use the world and the tools the developers have given them, then the developer has to decide which of these new ways to encourage, which ones to let languish, if any!
They have to decide whether to push their own agenda to the detriment of the community uses, or encourage the community uses and still bolster their own ideas, etc.
etc.There's an interesting dynamic (which my research will be looking at) between developer and community.
Who holds more power, how much each stakeholder decides to give in to another, etc.At any rate, he was playing within the developer rules, but the community he was in had its own set of rules subset to that.
So was he really following the rules?
Who makes the rules in these virtual world spaces?
to me those are the more interesting questions, not what Prof. Myers "discovered.
" What he "discovered" was nothing new and really, online worlds are reflections of the offline world.
People are this rude in the Big Blue Room, a bit more muted as the anonymity of the 'Net allows us to be more bold, but you still see this type of action out here in the "real" world.Just my 2 cents in whatever currency (virtual or otherwise) you want to put it in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600781</id>
	<title>Re:Full Court Press</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246880040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa\_fact\_gladwell?printable=true</p><p>The appropriate article, written up by Malcolm Gladwell.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa \ _fact \ _gladwell ? printable = trueThe appropriate article , written up by Malcolm Gladwell .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa\_fact\_gladwell?printable=trueThe appropriate article, written up by Malcolm Gladwell.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600619</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605433</id>
	<title>Re:Carebears</title>
	<author>Yvanhoe</author>
	<datestamp>1246963320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Also in what kind of game can you teleport other players into a danger zone ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also in what kind of game can you teleport other players into a danger zone ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also in what kind of game can you teleport other players into a danger zone ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600571</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605189</id>
	<title>Re:Not a new concept</title>
	<author>TheTurtlesMoves</author>
	<datestamp>1246959960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ha! Simpson already did it!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ha !
Simpson already did it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ha!
Simpson already did it!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604557</id>
	<title>No mention of his poetry?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246909140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Professor also has some awesome poetry sk1llz<br>from <a href="http://www.masscomm.loyno.edu/~dmyers/F99\%20classes/City\%20of\%20Heroes\%20Official\%20Forums\_TwixtThread.htm" title="loyno.edu" rel="nofollow">http://www.masscomm.loyno.edu/~dmyers/F99\%20classes/City\%20of\%20Heroes\%20Official\%20Forums\_TwixtThread.htm</a> [loyno.edu] </p><p><div class="quote"><p>Who dis Neeto wats his name?<br>Does he even play the game?<br>Does he have a dom or not?<br>Does he scratch yur palm a lot?<br>Does he cry and baitch and moan<br>When Twixt and heroes win the zone?<br>Romper bomper stomper boo<br>Neeto keeno icky poo.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Professor also has some awesome poetry sk1llzfrom http : //www.masscomm.loyno.edu/ ~ dmyers/F99 \ % 20classes/City \ % 20of \ % 20Heroes \ % 20Official \ % 20Forums \ _TwixtThread.htm [ loyno.edu ] Who dis Neeto wats his name ? Does he even play the game ? Does he have a dom or not ? Does he scratch yur palm a lot ? Does he cry and baitch and moanWhen Twixt and heroes win the zone ? Romper bomper stomper booNeeto keeno icky poo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Professor also has some awesome poetry sk1llzfrom http://www.masscomm.loyno.edu/~dmyers/F99\%20classes/City\%20of\%20Heroes\%20Official\%20Forums\_TwixtThread.htm [loyno.edu] Who dis Neeto wats his name?Does he even play the game?Does he have a dom or not?Does he scratch yur palm a lot?Does he cry and baitch and moanWhen Twixt and heroes win the zone?Romper bomper stomper booNeeto keeno icky poo.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600897</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>chrispycreeme</author>
	<datestamp>1246880640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>within the rules doesnt mean its within the rules</p></div></blockquote><p>Yes. It does. Reverse tautology aside. The coded rules of the game are analogous to the rules of physics in real life. The social conventions are a layer on top of those rules created by the players. While I can't break the laws of physics I can certainly break the laws of man, and I'll pay the consequences if I do. If I determine that I can accept the consequences, (in this case being threatened by strangers on the internet)or I have enough money to hire good lawyers, then I am free to do so unless someone stops me.</p><p>Get used to living in the real world.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>within the rules doesnt mean its within the rulesYes .
It does .
Reverse tautology aside .
The coded rules of the game are analogous to the rules of physics in real life .
The social conventions are a layer on top of those rules created by the players .
While I ca n't break the laws of physics I can certainly break the laws of man , and I 'll pay the consequences if I do .
If I determine that I can accept the consequences , ( in this case being threatened by strangers on the internet ) or I have enough money to hire good lawyers , then I am free to do so unless someone stops me.Get used to living in the real world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>within the rules doesnt mean its within the rulesYes.
It does.
Reverse tautology aside.
The coded rules of the game are analogous to the rules of physics in real life.
The social conventions are a layer on top of those rules created by the players.
While I can't break the laws of physics I can certainly break the laws of man, and I'll pay the consequences if I do.
If I determine that I can accept the consequences, (in this case being threatened by strangers on the internet)or I have enough money to hire good lawyers, then I am free to do so unless someone stops me.Get used to living in the real world.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28610481</id>
	<title>Re:Carebears</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246990800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He "defeated" people by teleporting them into forbidden zones, in a game where the forbiddance mechanic is to instakill the violating character. Said forbidden zone being his team's spawn area and it being forbidden to prevent spawn-camping. So he's sitting in the spawn zone where he can't be retaliated on and pulling opposing teammembers in to be killed by the zone protection NPCs. Much skill there, indeed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He " defeated " people by teleporting them into forbidden zones , in a game where the forbiddance mechanic is to instakill the violating character .
Said forbidden zone being his team 's spawn area and it being forbidden to prevent spawn-camping .
So he 's sitting in the spawn zone where he ca n't be retaliated on and pulling opposing teammembers in to be killed by the zone protection NPCs .
Much skill there , indeed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He "defeated" people by teleporting them into forbidden zones, in a game where the forbiddance mechanic is to instakill the violating character.
Said forbidden zone being his team's spawn area and it being forbidden to prevent spawn-camping.
So he's sitting in the spawn zone where he can't be retaliated on and pulling opposing teammembers in to be killed by the zone protection NPCs.
Much skill there, indeed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600735</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28608791</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246983960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>well actually, a developer, self righteous or not, can do anything at all to change what's legal and what's not - "they are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys" - there's just never enough time to play-test these things to cover every single eventuality.  I'm sure they intended to remove all the cheap shot tactics, because it would be crazy to intentionally leave one in and say "we're hoping people will sort this out amongst themselves and act reasonably", because, as this article clearly shows, someone is going to screw that up for everyone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>well actually , a developer , self righteous or not , can do anything at all to change what 's legal and what 's not - " they are the gatekeepers .
They are guarding all the doors , they are holding all the keys " - there 's just never enough time to play-test these things to cover every single eventuality .
I 'm sure they intended to remove all the cheap shot tactics , because it would be crazy to intentionally leave one in and say " we 're hoping people will sort this out amongst themselves and act reasonably " , because , as this article clearly shows , someone is going to screw that up for everyone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>well actually, a developer, self righteous or not, can do anything at all to change what's legal and what's not - "they are the gatekeepers.
They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys" - there's just never enough time to play-test these things to cover every single eventuality.
I'm sure they intended to remove all the cheap shot tactics, because it would be crazy to intentionally leave one in and say "we're hoping people will sort this out amongst themselves and act reasonably", because, as this article clearly shows, someone is going to screw that up for everyone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601589</id>
	<title>Re:More of a study of Socialogy than Video Games..</title>
	<author>Anonymous Cowpat</author>
	<datestamp>1246884480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>depends - does the guy who wants to play baseball starting pitching the ball <i>at</i> the sunbathers?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>depends - does the guy who wants to play baseball starting pitching the ball at the sunbathers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>depends - does the guy who wants to play baseball starting pitching the ball at the sunbathers?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600829</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600961</id>
	<title>Burn a flag</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246881000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Go ahead and burn a flag. It's within the rules, but people will hate you for it. Wow. I should write a paper.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Go ahead and burn a flag .
It 's within the rules , but people will hate you for it .
Wow. I should write a paper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Go ahead and burn a flag.
It's within the rules, but people will hate you for it.
Wow. I should write a paper.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601077</id>
	<title>Get a LIFE!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246881540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it all sound pretty lame to me. Get a life</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it all sound pretty lame to me .
Get a life</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it all sound pretty lame to me.
Get a life</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603449</id>
	<title>Death threat = felony</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246897080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In most states, that's terroristic threat. In Texas, that can you 2 to 20. Imagine the typical geek in his prison cell, talking to his new cellmate with all his tattoos.</p><p>"So what you do?"<br>"I threatened to kill a guy."<br>"Oh yeah? Where at?"<br>"In an MMO."<br>"Huh?"<br>"It's an online world where we play comic book characters...."<br>(Standing up, taking shirt off, smiling.) "Oh yeah? You like to pretend you're wearing tight little spandex costumes? Well I like to play make believe too....."<br>Guard walks by, observes the spectacle, and notes, "Ya'll don't make too big of a mess in there...."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In most states , that 's terroristic threat .
In Texas , that can you 2 to 20 .
Imagine the typical geek in his prison cell , talking to his new cellmate with all his tattoos .
" So what you do ?
" " I threatened to kill a guy .
" " Oh yeah ?
Where at ?
" " In an MMO. " " Huh ?
" " It 's an online world where we play comic book characters.... " ( Standing up , taking shirt off , smiling .
) " Oh yeah ?
You like to pretend you 're wearing tight little spandex costumes ?
Well I like to play make believe too..... " Guard walks by , observes the spectacle , and notes , " Ya 'll do n't make too big of a mess in there.... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In most states, that's terroristic threat.
In Texas, that can you 2 to 20.
Imagine the typical geek in his prison cell, talking to his new cellmate with all his tattoos.
"So what you do?
""I threatened to kill a guy.
""Oh yeah?
Where at?
""In an MMO.""Huh?
""It's an online world where we play comic book characters...."(Standing up, taking shirt off, smiling.
) "Oh yeah?
You like to pretend you're wearing tight little spandex costumes?
Well I like to play make believe too....."Guard walks by, observes the spectacle, and notes, "Ya'll don't make too big of a mess in there...."</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605613</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>blahplusplus</author>
	<datestamp>1246965240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>" It wasn't so I could live in a society, but so I could have super powers, choose a side, and then run around kicking the asses of people on the opposing side with said super powers. "</p><p>The problem is when the other side are human players what happens to their avatar directly effects tehir psychology.  Rage quitting and people getting mad at losing or dying is very common in video games.  Mature sportsen make up a minority of any game playing population, but most people get enraged when they lose.</p><p>Even top playeers who are working on subdueing their anger when they lose because they recognize it is a flaw in themselves.</p><p>This is why PvE is so popular, killing ememies who don't have humans behind them to get angry and offended makes the fantasy of killing the villains much more palatable.</p><p>You have to remember psychologically people are emotionally / mentally invested in their avatars.  Most people are not nerdy enough or intelligent enough to seperate their psyche from what happens to them in game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" It was n't so I could live in a society , but so I could have super powers , choose a side , and then run around kicking the asses of people on the opposing side with said super powers .
" The problem is when the other side are human players what happens to their avatar directly effects tehir psychology .
Rage quitting and people getting mad at losing or dying is very common in video games .
Mature sportsen make up a minority of any game playing population , but most people get enraged when they lose.Even top playeers who are working on subdueing their anger when they lose because they recognize it is a flaw in themselves.This is why PvE is so popular , killing ememies who do n't have humans behind them to get angry and offended makes the fantasy of killing the villains much more palatable.You have to remember psychologically people are emotionally / mentally invested in their avatars .
Most people are not nerdy enough or intelligent enough to seperate their psyche from what happens to them in game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>" It wasn't so I could live in a society, but so I could have super powers, choose a side, and then run around kicking the asses of people on the opposing side with said super powers.
"The problem is when the other side are human players what happens to their avatar directly effects tehir psychology.
Rage quitting and people getting mad at losing or dying is very common in video games.
Mature sportsen make up a minority of any game playing population, but most people get enraged when they lose.Even top playeers who are working on subdueing their anger when they lose because they recognize it is a flaw in themselves.This is why PvE is so popular, killing ememies who don't have humans behind them to get angry and offended makes the fantasy of killing the villains much more palatable.You have to remember psychologically people are emotionally / mentally invested in their avatars.
Most people are not nerdy enough or intelligent enough to seperate their psyche from what happens to them in game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28617641</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>RML</author>
	<datestamp>1246986120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree that that's not nice. But - this is the key point - <i>he is winning the zone for his team</i>. His actions contribute to fulfilling his objective within the game, and they are legal by the rules of the game.</p><p>It sounds to me that the entire purpose of the PVP zones is to have PVP fights, and people who aren't there to fight or interact with enemy players are abusing them for something contrary to the designer's intent. If someone comes along and does something mean to them, that's their fault for being in the PVP zone. If the designers wanted to provide a place where you can get the increased experience without the risk of having someone kill you they would just add it!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that that 's not nice .
But - this is the key point - he is winning the zone for his team .
His actions contribute to fulfilling his objective within the game , and they are legal by the rules of the game.It sounds to me that the entire purpose of the PVP zones is to have PVP fights , and people who are n't there to fight or interact with enemy players are abusing them for something contrary to the designer 's intent .
If someone comes along and does something mean to them , that 's their fault for being in the PVP zone .
If the designers wanted to provide a place where you can get the increased experience without the risk of having someone kill you they would just add it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that that's not nice.
But - this is the key point - he is winning the zone for his team.
His actions contribute to fulfilling his objective within the game, and they are legal by the rules of the game.It sounds to me that the entire purpose of the PVP zones is to have PVP fights, and people who aren't there to fight or interact with enemy players are abusing them for something contrary to the designer's intent.
If someone comes along and does something mean to them, that's their fault for being in the PVP zone.
If the designers wanted to provide a place where you can get the increased experience without the risk of having someone kill you they would just add it!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28616667</id>
	<title>there is no difference</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1246977180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>any situation that involves more than one person ( or even entity ) is a social environment.</p><p>anyone playing mmos are actually intending to play in social environments. because they ARE massively MULTIPLAYER online games. if they didnt want such a thing, they would be playing counterstrike after all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>any situation that involves more than one person ( or even entity ) is a social environment.anyone playing mmos are actually intending to play in social environments .
because they ARE massively MULTIPLAYER online games .
if they didnt want such a thing , they would be playing counterstrike after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>any situation that involves more than one person ( or even entity ) is a social environment.anyone playing mmos are actually intending to play in social environments.
because they ARE massively MULTIPLAYER online games.
if they didnt want such a thing, they would be playing counterstrike after all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600659</id>
	<title>NCSoft do not make the rules.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246879560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>MMOs work by social contract.  NCSoft can try to tell people how to play, but unless they ban people for playing incorrectly, people are going to play the game in a manner they enjoy.  It really isn't going to work if you tell people to enjoy themselves in a certain manner.  <br> <br>
The researcher's experiment demonstrated this quite clearly.  It's remarkably bad form to harass the guy outside of the game, but I expect this was a small minority.  It's perfectly acceptable for a group of them to gang up on the guy and try to defeat him.</htmltext>
<tokenext>MMOs work by social contract .
NCSoft can try to tell people how to play , but unless they ban people for playing incorrectly , people are going to play the game in a manner they enjoy .
It really is n't going to work if you tell people to enjoy themselves in a certain manner .
The researcher 's experiment demonstrated this quite clearly .
It 's remarkably bad form to harass the guy outside of the game , but I expect this was a small minority .
It 's perfectly acceptable for a group of them to gang up on the guy and try to defeat him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MMOs work by social contract.
NCSoft can try to tell people how to play, but unless they ban people for playing incorrectly, people are going to play the game in a manner they enjoy.
It really isn't going to work if you tell people to enjoy themselves in a certain manner.
The researcher's experiment demonstrated this quite clearly.
It's remarkably bad form to harass the guy outside of the game, but I expect this was a small minority.
It's perfectly acceptable for a group of them to gang up on the guy and try to defeat him.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28611767</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-scoial != Indepedent/Mainstream</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246995480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>the reality is he didn't just not follow rules</i></p><p>The reality is that he was following the rules.  The people sitting around in a PvP arena expecting not to be killed are the ones not following the rules.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the reality is he did n't just not follow rulesThe reality is that he was following the rules .
The people sitting around in a PvP arena expecting not to be killed are the ones not following the rules .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the reality is he didn't just not follow rulesThe reality is that he was following the rules.
The people sitting around in a PvP arena expecting not to be killed are the ones not following the rules.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28612237</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246997400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The only decent part *was* the sabering<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. so, playing on a server where getting into duels was pretty much the best part. </i></p><p>So play on a saber only server.  IIRC there was an option for that.</p><p><i>If you honestly wanted to shoot a guy (who happened to be running around with a saber) with a pistol<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. it turned into the proverbial 'knife to a gun fight'. saberists didnt stand a chance<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. and it ruined the game so to speak. </i></p><p>Sounds like a problem with the game mechanics.  It should be awfully difficult to shoot a jedi with a light saber.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only decent part * was * the sabering .. so , playing on a server where getting into duels was pretty much the best part .
So play on a saber only server .
IIRC there was an option for that.If you honestly wanted to shoot a guy ( who happened to be running around with a saber ) with a pistol .. it turned into the proverbial 'knife to a gun fight' .
saberists didnt stand a chance .. and it ruined the game so to speak .
Sounds like a problem with the game mechanics .
It should be awfully difficult to shoot a jedi with a light saber .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only decent part *was* the sabering .. so, playing on a server where getting into duels was pretty much the best part.
So play on a saber only server.
IIRC there was an option for that.If you honestly wanted to shoot a guy (who happened to be running around with a saber) with a pistol .. it turned into the proverbial 'knife to a gun fight'.
saberists didnt stand a chance .. and it ruined the game so to speak.
Sounds like a problem with the game mechanics.
It should be awfully difficult to shoot a jedi with a light saber.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603653</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604457</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>ildon</author>
	<datestamp>1246908120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Being killed by a player has no penalty in a PvP zone, you're just sent back to the entrance of the zone. However, the computer controlled "cartoon" enemies in the zone will inflict an experience loss(known as "debt") on the players that die by their hand, and this loss takes a considerable amount of time to mitigate.</p></div></blockquote><p>This is entirely the fault of the developers, not the players. When Alterac Valley was initially in testing for WoW, one of the first changes made was to removed damage done to gear as a result of a death from NPCs within the zone (a much smaller penalty than XP debt in CoH/CoV). This was a lesson learned within two weeks of testing, four years ago, and before CoV was even in closed beta, and fixed long before the zone was released. And yet this has persisted how long in CoH/CoV?</p><blockquote><div><p>There are players in this zone who are there to defeat the enemies because they give increased experience, they aren't there to fight or interact with enemy players in any way and are left alone instead.</p></div></blockquote><p> The reason the  NPCs have a greater XP yield in the zone is <em>specifically because of the increased danger posed by being in an open PvP zone</em>. Players not participating in PvP within the zone are effectively exploiting the zone outside of its intended purpose. Again, this is another obvious problem within the game that needs to be fixed by the developers, and players playing with an expectation of PvPing should not be run out by players wholly intent on exploiting a PvP zone for PvE benefit.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Being killed by a player has no penalty in a PvP zone , you 're just sent back to the entrance of the zone .
However , the computer controlled " cartoon " enemies in the zone will inflict an experience loss ( known as " debt " ) on the players that die by their hand , and this loss takes a considerable amount of time to mitigate.This is entirely the fault of the developers , not the players .
When Alterac Valley was initially in testing for WoW , one of the first changes made was to removed damage done to gear as a result of a death from NPCs within the zone ( a much smaller penalty than XP debt in CoH/CoV ) .
This was a lesson learned within two weeks of testing , four years ago , and before CoV was even in closed beta , and fixed long before the zone was released .
And yet this has persisted how long in CoH/CoV ? There are players in this zone who are there to defeat the enemies because they give increased experience , they are n't there to fight or interact with enemy players in any way and are left alone instead .
The reason the NPCs have a greater XP yield in the zone is specifically because of the increased danger posed by being in an open PvP zone .
Players not participating in PvP within the zone are effectively exploiting the zone outside of its intended purpose .
Again , this is another obvious problem within the game that needs to be fixed by the developers , and players playing with an expectation of PvPing should not be run out by players wholly intent on exploiting a PvP zone for PvE benefit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being killed by a player has no penalty in a PvP zone, you're just sent back to the entrance of the zone.
However, the computer controlled "cartoon" enemies in the zone will inflict an experience loss(known as "debt") on the players that die by their hand, and this loss takes a considerable amount of time to mitigate.This is entirely the fault of the developers, not the players.
When Alterac Valley was initially in testing for WoW, one of the first changes made was to removed damage done to gear as a result of a death from NPCs within the zone (a much smaller penalty than XP debt in CoH/CoV).
This was a lesson learned within two weeks of testing, four years ago, and before CoV was even in closed beta, and fixed long before the zone was released.
And yet this has persisted how long in CoH/CoV?There are players in this zone who are there to defeat the enemies because they give increased experience, they aren't there to fight or interact with enemy players in any way and are left alone instead.
The reason the  NPCs have a greater XP yield in the zone is specifically because of the increased danger posed by being in an open PvP zone.
Players not participating in PvP within the zone are effectively exploiting the zone outside of its intended purpose.
Again, this is another obvious problem within the game that needs to be fixed by the developers, and players playing with an expectation of PvPing should not be run out by players wholly intent on exploiting a PvP zone for PvE benefit.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603939</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246901100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> I mean, who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force?</p><p>Is this supposed to be sarcastic, I can't tell?  It's exactly what the other "inhabitants" are doing -- actually they're taking it a step farther, threatening physical harm outside the game.  They should be arrested, as they are actually breaking real laws.</p><p>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.  Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, </p><p>Actually, impeding faster traffic on a multi lane highway is against the law in most states.  I suggest you actually become familiar with the vehicle code before using it as an example.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean , who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force ? Is this supposed to be sarcastic , I ca n't tell ?
It 's exactly what the other " inhabitants " are doing -- actually they 're taking it a step farther , threatening physical harm outside the game .
They should be arrested , as they are actually breaking real laws.It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do , Actually , impeding faster traffic on a multi lane highway is against the law in most states .
I suggest you actually become familiar with the vehicle code before using it as an example .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I mean, who is this self-proclaimed researcher to go around enforcing his vision of how people should play the game with the equivalent of violent force?Is this supposed to be sarcastic, I can't tell?
It's exactly what the other "inhabitants" are doing -- actually they're taking it a step farther, threatening physical harm outside the game.
They should be arrested, as they are actually breaking real laws.It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, Actually, impeding faster traffic on a multi lane highway is against the law in most states.
I suggest you actually become familiar with the vehicle code before using it as an example.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609515</id>
	<title>Re:Not trolling</title>
	<author>GooberToo</author>
	<datestamp>1246986720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I couldn't agree more. The problem is villains + heroes would chat it up int he combat zone. If they really wanted to chat, it sounds like either the villian or hero needs to change sides so they can chat. Doing what they do breaks the illusion of the game, which is bad for everyone that actually wants to play as intended.</p><p>Personally, seeing villains and heroes chat it up and even worse, watching a fellow hero beaten on by villains speaks loudly that his fellow heroes were not heroes after all. The game should be smart enough to turn the heroes into villains - because that's what they are. They clearly befriended "evil" and stood by while "good" was killed. They stood by and watched while "good", who was doing exactly what "good" was supposed to do, was killed. Worse, the "good" became an outcast for doing "good" by defeating "evil".</p><p>Its pretty clear the game mechanics are simply broken. In this case, the game needs to convert all of those heroes into fallen heroes as they are clearly evil and certainly far from good. Good doesn't turn its back on good while evil kills it - even if you don't believe in their politics. That's called chaos. That's in part what defines "evil." Furthermore, popular opinion of them would drastically fall if the public knew they were watching and likely cheering with befriended villains as a hero was murdered on the streets. In short, the article does wonders to explain just how completely broken the game really is.</p><p>The fact that players are not doing what they are supposed to be doing is very interesting. Made yet more interesting is that people who clearly identify with being "good" (made a hero) yet are are easily identifiable with "evil" by their actions makes for excellent social commentary. Its no surprise that many "evil" people actually don't see themselves as such. I'm amazed how many people consider themselves good yet do horribly selfish, mean, or down right "evil" things on a daily basis, like take joy in someone else's pain - yet are unshaken in their belief that they are themselves, "good."</p><p>Anyone who doesn't believe this is important social science is delusional.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could n't agree more .
The problem is villains + heroes would chat it up int he combat zone .
If they really wanted to chat , it sounds like either the villian or hero needs to change sides so they can chat .
Doing what they do breaks the illusion of the game , which is bad for everyone that actually wants to play as intended.Personally , seeing villains and heroes chat it up and even worse , watching a fellow hero beaten on by villains speaks loudly that his fellow heroes were not heroes after all .
The game should be smart enough to turn the heroes into villains - because that 's what they are .
They clearly befriended " evil " and stood by while " good " was killed .
They stood by and watched while " good " , who was doing exactly what " good " was supposed to do , was killed .
Worse , the " good " became an outcast for doing " good " by defeating " evil " .Its pretty clear the game mechanics are simply broken .
In this case , the game needs to convert all of those heroes into fallen heroes as they are clearly evil and certainly far from good .
Good does n't turn its back on good while evil kills it - even if you do n't believe in their politics .
That 's called chaos .
That 's in part what defines " evil .
" Furthermore , popular opinion of them would drastically fall if the public knew they were watching and likely cheering with befriended villains as a hero was murdered on the streets .
In short , the article does wonders to explain just how completely broken the game really is.The fact that players are not doing what they are supposed to be doing is very interesting .
Made yet more interesting is that people who clearly identify with being " good " ( made a hero ) yet are are easily identifiable with " evil " by their actions makes for excellent social commentary .
Its no surprise that many " evil " people actually do n't see themselves as such .
I 'm amazed how many people consider themselves good yet do horribly selfish , mean , or down right " evil " things on a daily basis , like take joy in someone else 's pain - yet are unshaken in their belief that they are themselves , " good .
" Anyone who does n't believe this is important social science is delusional .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I couldn't agree more.
The problem is villains + heroes would chat it up int he combat zone.
If they really wanted to chat, it sounds like either the villian or hero needs to change sides so they can chat.
Doing what they do breaks the illusion of the game, which is bad for everyone that actually wants to play as intended.Personally, seeing villains and heroes chat it up and even worse, watching a fellow hero beaten on by villains speaks loudly that his fellow heroes were not heroes after all.
The game should be smart enough to turn the heroes into villains - because that's what they are.
They clearly befriended "evil" and stood by while "good" was killed.
They stood by and watched while "good", who was doing exactly what "good" was supposed to do, was killed.
Worse, the "good" became an outcast for doing "good" by defeating "evil".Its pretty clear the game mechanics are simply broken.
In this case, the game needs to convert all of those heroes into fallen heroes as they are clearly evil and certainly far from good.
Good doesn't turn its back on good while evil kills it - even if you don't believe in their politics.
That's called chaos.
That's in part what defines "evil.
" Furthermore, popular opinion of them would drastically fall if the public knew they were watching and likely cheering with befriended villains as a hero was murdered on the streets.
In short, the article does wonders to explain just how completely broken the game really is.The fact that players are not doing what they are supposed to be doing is very interesting.
Made yet more interesting is that people who clearly identify with being "good" (made a hero) yet are are easily identifiable with "evil" by their actions makes for excellent social commentary.
Its no surprise that many "evil" people actually don't see themselves as such.
I'm amazed how many people consider themselves good yet do horribly selfish, mean, or down right "evil" things on a daily basis, like take joy in someone else's pain - yet are unshaken in their belief that they are themselves, "good.
"Anyone who doesn't believe this is important social science is delusional.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602667</id>
	<title>Re:Not Research</title>
	<author>hairyfeet</author>
	<datestamp>1246891320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually I think he just proved Professor Gabriel's  <a href="http://sc.tri-bit.com/John\_Gabriel's\_Greater\_Internet\_Fuckwad\_Theory" title="tri-bit.com">Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory</a> [tri-bit.com] and thereby proving conclusively that no matter how much education or degrees you have attached to you name, you can still be a giant douche on the Internet.</p><p>

So congratulations Mr Researcher, on proving what everyone else has known since AOHell let the great unwashed loose on the net. I'm sure his next paper will be on how 4Chan is full of trolls that do everything for something called the "LULZ".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually I think he just proved Professor Gabriel 's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory [ tri-bit.com ] and thereby proving conclusively that no matter how much education or degrees you have attached to you name , you can still be a giant douche on the Internet .
So congratulations Mr Researcher , on proving what everyone else has known since AOHell let the great unwashed loose on the net .
I 'm sure his next paper will be on how 4Chan is full of trolls that do everything for something called the " LULZ " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually I think he just proved Professor Gabriel's  Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory [tri-bit.com] and thereby proving conclusively that no matter how much education or degrees you have attached to you name, you can still be a giant douche on the Internet.
So congratulations Mr Researcher, on proving what everyone else has known since AOHell let the great unwashed loose on the net.
I'm sure his next paper will be on how 4Chan is full of trolls that do everything for something called the "LULZ".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600477</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601495</id>
	<title>Re:This reveals a problem in the game's rules...</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1246883940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My favorite (sorry, Canada) basketball game was when one team scored the first goal and then simply had one person dribbling the ball for the rest of the game and everyone else guarding him. Eventually, the other team gave up, and the score was 2-0. Soon after the 24-second rule was implemented.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My favorite ( sorry , Canada ) basketball game was when one team scored the first goal and then simply had one person dribbling the ball for the rest of the game and everyone else guarding him .
Eventually , the other team gave up , and the score was 2-0 .
Soon after the 24-second rule was implemented .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My favorite (sorry, Canada) basketball game was when one team scored the first goal and then simply had one person dribbling the ball for the rest of the game and everyone else guarding him.
Eventually, the other team gave up, and the score was 2-0.
Soon after the 24-second rule was implemented.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600851</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600863</id>
	<title>some more links, since the post itself was sparse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246880400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.masscomm.loyno.edu/~dmyers/F99\%20classes/Myers\_PlayPunishment\_031508.doc" title="loyno.edu">the actual paper</a> [loyno.edu] (word format, ugh).<br>
<a href="http://dmyersloyola.wordpress.com/2008/11/21/im-finishing-up-city-of-heroes-today/" title="wordpress.com">the guy's blog</a> [wordpress.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>the actual paper [ loyno.edu ] ( word format , ugh ) .
the guy 's blog [ wordpress.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the actual paper [loyno.edu] (word format, ugh).
the guy's blog [wordpress.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601069</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1246881540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Basically, he played the game (actually fighting villains) and was hated for it.</p></div><p>So? if he cares about being "hated" by random people off the 'net he's nothing more than a crybaby if you ask me.</p><p>It all depends on your particular level of cynism, you see.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Basically , he played the game ( actually fighting villains ) and was hated for it.So ?
if he cares about being " hated " by random people off the 'net he 's nothing more than a crybaby if you ask me.It all depends on your particular level of cynism , you see .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basically, he played the game (actually fighting villains) and was hated for it.So?
if he cares about being "hated" by random people off the 'net he's nothing more than a crybaby if you ask me.It all depends on your particular level of cynism, you see.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605097</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>rts008</author>
	<datestamp>1246958940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road. Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.</p></div><p>I'm glad I don't live in your country!<br>Here in the USA, most if not all states have laws <b>against</b> driving in the left(passing) lane of a dual(or more) lane road. The left lane is for passing only, or where applicable and legal...left turns.</p><p>It was really nice driving in Germany because they actively enforce this!</p><p><div class="quote"><p>If he really thinks that the community's reaction to him "marching to the beat of a different drummer" is so horrible, then I wonder what he would think of someone driving by his home at 3:00 AM every night with the bass cranked up.</p></div><p>Also against laws in a lot of towns and cities here in the USA.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do , but most people do n't , and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that should n't be there.I 'm glad I do n't live in your country ! Here in the USA , most if not all states have laws against driving in the left ( passing ) lane of a dual ( or more ) lane road .
The left lane is for passing only , or where applicable and legal...left turns.It was really nice driving in Germany because they actively enforce this ! If he really thinks that the community 's reaction to him " marching to the beat of a different drummer " is so horrible , then I wonder what he would think of someone driving by his home at 3 : 00 AM every night with the bass cranked up.Also against laws in a lot of towns and cities here in the USA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do, but most people don't, and the presence of a vehicle going a different speed from the flow of traffic creates danger and stress that shouldn't be there.I'm glad I don't live in your country!Here in the USA, most if not all states have laws against driving in the left(passing) lane of a dual(or more) lane road.
The left lane is for passing only, or where applicable and legal...left turns.It was really nice driving in Germany because they actively enforce this!If he really thinks that the community's reaction to him "marching to the beat of a different drummer" is so horrible, then I wonder what he would think of someone driving by his home at 3:00 AM every night with the bass cranked up.Also against laws in a lot of towns and cities here in the USA.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603803</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246899720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road. Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do,....</i> </p><p>Not in California. If you're running a Winnebago at 25 on a twisty road, you're required to pull off as soon as it's safe to do so and let stacked-up, but more capable, traffic pass you. I believe something around five other vehicles constitutes "stacked up".</p><p>More to the present point, the limit on freeways is either 65 or 70, depending. Even if you're doing the limit in the fast lane, if someone wants to go faster, whether 5 or 25 mph faster, you're required by law to give way by moving to a lane to your right. In such a situation, the CHP will nail you for obstruction and causing a safety hazard (the other guy's road rage), not the guy down the road doing 100. (Aside -- I've heard CHP cops say that, given the choice between running down someone doing 80 and someone doing 100, they'd pick off the guy doing 80 -- because it's easier and safer -- for themselves. You are aware, are you not, that the SCOTUS has ruled that  police and their departments have no duty "to serve and to protect" on an individual basis and that you cannot sue either for a failure to render service or protection?)</p><p>In effect, you are required to cooperate with a lawbreaker by letting them pass. So much for "right of way". As always, might makes right and fuck the innocent.</p><p> <i>If he really thinks that the community's reaction to him "marching to the beat of a different drummer" is so horrible, then I wonder what he would think of someone driving by his home at 3:00 AM every night with the bass cranked up. Bold iconoclast? Or someone that he wished the cops would deal with?</i> </p><p>You're forgetting an important distinction -- loud noise at 3am \_is\_ illegal and \_should\_ be dealt with by the cops. Playing hillbilly music or rap all day long with all the windows open and at a legal volume is not, even if it drives you nuts.</p><p>I agree that the scum of the earth, just a hair above pedophiles, are the corporate types who fuck you over on credit card scammery, then point to the contract with their only possible defense, "But it's legal". However, someone who goes around "playing by the rules", while a pain in the ass, lives in that grey area between the law and local custom. He can expect to be right in all legal points, but he should also not whimper when he's shunned and reviled.</p><p>It's not at all different from a group of high-schoolers playing pickup basketball on a public playground. Along come some college varsity players who insist on "joining the game because it's a public space to which they have equal right", then overwhelming the younger players with their superior strength and skill. They'll also be reviled for running roughshod over the status quo.</p><p>At the same time, the younger players should not drag out their game just "because they can".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do,.... Not in California .
If you 're running a Winnebago at 25 on a twisty road , you 're required to pull off as soon as it 's safe to do so and let stacked-up , but more capable , traffic pass you .
I believe something around five other vehicles constitutes " stacked up " .More to the present point , the limit on freeways is either 65 or 70 , depending .
Even if you 're doing the limit in the fast lane , if someone wants to go faster , whether 5 or 25 mph faster , you 're required by law to give way by moving to a lane to your right .
In such a situation , the CHP will nail you for obstruction and causing a safety hazard ( the other guy 's road rage ) , not the guy down the road doing 100 .
( Aside -- I 've heard CHP cops say that , given the choice between running down someone doing 80 and someone doing 100 , they 'd pick off the guy doing 80 -- because it 's easier and safer -- for themselves .
You are aware , are you not , that the SCOTUS has ruled that police and their departments have no duty " to serve and to protect " on an individual basis and that you can not sue either for a failure to render service or protection ?
) In effect , you are required to cooperate with a lawbreaker by letting them pass .
So much for " right of way " .
As always , might makes right and fuck the innocent .
If he really thinks that the community 's reaction to him " marching to the beat of a different drummer " is so horrible , then I wonder what he would think of someone driving by his home at 3 : 00 AM every night with the bass cranked up .
Bold iconoclast ?
Or someone that he wished the cops would deal with ?
You 're forgetting an important distinction -- loud noise at 3am \ _is \ _ illegal and \ _should \ _ be dealt with by the cops .
Playing hillbilly music or rap all day long with all the windows open and at a legal volume is not , even if it drives you nuts.I agree that the scum of the earth , just a hair above pedophiles , are the corporate types who fuck you over on credit card scammery , then point to the contract with their only possible defense , " But it 's legal " .
However , someone who goes around " playing by the rules " , while a pain in the ass , lives in that grey area between the law and local custom .
He can expect to be right in all legal points , but he should also not whimper when he 's shunned and reviled.It 's not at all different from a group of high-schoolers playing pickup basketball on a public playground .
Along come some college varsity players who insist on " joining the game because it 's a public space to which they have equal right " , then overwhelming the younger players with their superior strength and skill .
They 'll also be reviled for running roughshod over the status quo.At the same time , the younger players should not drag out their game just " because they can " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do,.... Not in California.
If you're running a Winnebago at 25 on a twisty road, you're required to pull off as soon as it's safe to do so and let stacked-up, but more capable, traffic pass you.
I believe something around five other vehicles constitutes "stacked up".More to the present point, the limit on freeways is either 65 or 70, depending.
Even if you're doing the limit in the fast lane, if someone wants to go faster, whether 5 or 25 mph faster, you're required by law to give way by moving to a lane to your right.
In such a situation, the CHP will nail you for obstruction and causing a safety hazard (the other guy's road rage), not the guy down the road doing 100.
(Aside -- I've heard CHP cops say that, given the choice between running down someone doing 80 and someone doing 100, they'd pick off the guy doing 80 -- because it's easier and safer -- for themselves.
You are aware, are you not, that the SCOTUS has ruled that  police and their departments have no duty "to serve and to protect" on an individual basis and that you cannot sue either for a failure to render service or protection?
)In effect, you are required to cooperate with a lawbreaker by letting them pass.
So much for "right of way".
As always, might makes right and fuck the innocent.
If he really thinks that the community's reaction to him "marching to the beat of a different drummer" is so horrible, then I wonder what he would think of someone driving by his home at 3:00 AM every night with the bass cranked up.
Bold iconoclast?
Or someone that he wished the cops would deal with?
You're forgetting an important distinction -- loud noise at 3am \_is\_ illegal and \_should\_ be dealt with by the cops.
Playing hillbilly music or rap all day long with all the windows open and at a legal volume is not, even if it drives you nuts.I agree that the scum of the earth, just a hair above pedophiles, are the corporate types who fuck you over on credit card scammery, then point to the contract with their only possible defense, "But it's legal".
However, someone who goes around "playing by the rules", while a pain in the ass, lives in that grey area between the law and local custom.
He can expect to be right in all legal points, but he should also not whimper when he's shunned and reviled.It's not at all different from a group of high-schoolers playing pickup basketball on a public playground.
Along come some college varsity players who insist on "joining the game because it's a public space to which they have equal right", then overwhelming the younger players with their superior strength and skill.
They'll also be reviled for running roughshod over the status quo.At the same time, the younger players should not drag out their game just "because they can".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602791</id>
	<title>slashdot readers suck</title>
	<author>zarzu</author>
	<datestamp>1246892340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the comments to this article are hilarious, most people here have no clue whatsoever what he actually did in game, there are only very few comments who correctly point out that he did not just pvp (instead of standing around and chat) but that he used insta-kill npcs to kill, which actually makes them not his kills anymore. he was using a problematic game design against people without any reason other than to make them angry, it's as if he plays monopoly with friends and at some random point he takes the whole game and throws it at the wall. yea that analogy stinks.</p><p>what i would also like to point out is a huge flaw in the whole thing. the rules made up by ncsoft are coded, you don't have the possibility to not obey them, the game doesn't allow it (trying to hack the server doesn't count, it's not done by your character, it's done by you in the real world). these rules do - in the real world - not translate to laws which you have to follow or else..., they translate to laws of nature, physics. there is nothing to stop you killing people in the real world, if you like you can do it, it's just, people might hate you for it. mmorpg don't have law enforcement, there is no way for players to put others in prison because they committed a crime etc (not even in eve, darkfall or any other sandbox), mmorpgs simply do not have laws. the only thing they do have are social contracts, rules to follow if you want to fit into the society. what the author did is like when you walk around in life and call everyone you see an asshat, they won't like you, be an asshole throughout your life and everyone will try to get you out of their life as quickly as possible, they will mark you as an idiot and avoid you even though you only violated social code.</p><p>in conclusion this whole study is a huge joke, the author did not even understand how to translate rules from a mmorpg to real life. very sad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the comments to this article are hilarious , most people here have no clue whatsoever what he actually did in game , there are only very few comments who correctly point out that he did not just pvp ( instead of standing around and chat ) but that he used insta-kill npcs to kill , which actually makes them not his kills anymore .
he was using a problematic game design against people without any reason other than to make them angry , it 's as if he plays monopoly with friends and at some random point he takes the whole game and throws it at the wall .
yea that analogy stinks.what i would also like to point out is a huge flaw in the whole thing .
the rules made up by ncsoft are coded , you do n't have the possibility to not obey them , the game does n't allow it ( trying to hack the server does n't count , it 's not done by your character , it 's done by you in the real world ) .
these rules do - in the real world - not translate to laws which you have to follow or else... , they translate to laws of nature , physics .
there is nothing to stop you killing people in the real world , if you like you can do it , it 's just , people might hate you for it .
mmorpg do n't have law enforcement , there is no way for players to put others in prison because they committed a crime etc ( not even in eve , darkfall or any other sandbox ) , mmorpgs simply do not have laws .
the only thing they do have are social contracts , rules to follow if you want to fit into the society .
what the author did is like when you walk around in life and call everyone you see an asshat , they wo n't like you , be an asshole throughout your life and everyone will try to get you out of their life as quickly as possible , they will mark you as an idiot and avoid you even though you only violated social code.in conclusion this whole study is a huge joke , the author did not even understand how to translate rules from a mmorpg to real life .
very sad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the comments to this article are hilarious, most people here have no clue whatsoever what he actually did in game, there are only very few comments who correctly point out that he did not just pvp (instead of standing around and chat) but that he used insta-kill npcs to kill, which actually makes them not his kills anymore.
he was using a problematic game design against people without any reason other than to make them angry, it's as if he plays monopoly with friends and at some random point he takes the whole game and throws it at the wall.
yea that analogy stinks.what i would also like to point out is a huge flaw in the whole thing.
the rules made up by ncsoft are coded, you don't have the possibility to not obey them, the game doesn't allow it (trying to hack the server doesn't count, it's not done by your character, it's done by you in the real world).
these rules do - in the real world - not translate to laws which you have to follow or else..., they translate to laws of nature, physics.
there is nothing to stop you killing people in the real world, if you like you can do it, it's just, people might hate you for it.
mmorpg don't have law enforcement, there is no way for players to put others in prison because they committed a crime etc (not even in eve, darkfall or any other sandbox), mmorpgs simply do not have laws.
the only thing they do have are social contracts, rules to follow if you want to fit into the society.
what the author did is like when you walk around in life and call everyone you see an asshat, they won't like you, be an asshole throughout your life and everyone will try to get you out of their life as quickly as possible, they will mark you as an idiot and avoid you even though you only violated social code.in conclusion this whole study is a huge joke, the author did not even understand how to translate rules from a mmorpg to real life.
very sad.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603747</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>SuperBanana</author>
	<datestamp>1246899120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road. Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do,</i>

</p><p>No, it's not.  In every state I've been in, the left-most lane on a multi-lane road is for passing only, with minor exceptions.  If you're not passing people (and you won't be, going 45 in a 55), you're breaking the law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do , No , it 's not .
In every state I 've been in , the left-most lane on a multi-lane road is for passing only , with minor exceptions .
If you 're not passing people ( and you wo n't be , going 45 in a 55 ) , you 're breaking the law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do,

No, it's not.
In every state I've been in, the left-most lane on a multi-lane road is for passing only, with minor exceptions.
If you're not passing people (and you won't be, going 45 in a 55), you're breaking the law.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603123</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>Sage Gaspar</author>
	<datestamp>1246894800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you join a casual pickup basketball game and start getting real physical and slamming the ball out of bounds people might get upset and decide you're an asshole too. Technically you might not even be committing a foul but that's just not the way they want to play ball. This is much the same thing, only since it's online there's no real way to gauge reactions and you might be doing it to some teenager that has a harder time keeping cool.<br> <br>Basically just find a group of people that play the way you want to or be prepared to be disliked. In games like Jedi Knight especially it's easy to find a server that does what you want. There's servers that emphasize teamwork, servers for no-holds-barred 1337 kids, servers where people just want to pretend they're jedi and play act lightsaber duels or whatever. No real reason to linger on one when you can just head to another.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you join a casual pickup basketball game and start getting real physical and slamming the ball out of bounds people might get upset and decide you 're an asshole too .
Technically you might not even be committing a foul but that 's just not the way they want to play ball .
This is much the same thing , only since it 's online there 's no real way to gauge reactions and you might be doing it to some teenager that has a harder time keeping cool .
Basically just find a group of people that play the way you want to or be prepared to be disliked .
In games like Jedi Knight especially it 's easy to find a server that does what you want .
There 's servers that emphasize teamwork , servers for no-holds-barred 1337 kids , servers where people just want to pretend they 're jedi and play act lightsaber duels or whatever .
No real reason to linger on one when you can just head to another .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you join a casual pickup basketball game and start getting real physical and slamming the ball out of bounds people might get upset and decide you're an asshole too.
Technically you might not even be committing a foul but that's just not the way they want to play ball.
This is much the same thing, only since it's online there's no real way to gauge reactions and you might be doing it to some teenager that has a harder time keeping cool.
Basically just find a group of people that play the way you want to or be prepared to be disliked.
In games like Jedi Knight especially it's easy to find a server that does what you want.
There's servers that emphasize teamwork, servers for no-holds-barred 1337 kids, servers where people just want to pretend they're jedi and play act lightsaber duels or whatever.
No real reason to linger on one when you can just head to another.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28617747</id>
	<title>Not even a Study, an Ethics violation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246987020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. The research is fundamentally worthless and that should be pointed out to his review committee at loyola<br>a. He did no form of control group whatsoever<br>b. There were no parameters established for any kind of experimental protocol<br>c. This "stranger aggravation" experiment has been done ever since the 50s under properly controlled situations. He didn't replicate established research, and he proved nothing new.<br>2. In fact, and what should also be pointed out to his review committee at Loyola, what he has done has been to foul the water for anyone wanting to do serious research on sociological parameters inside mmorpgs<br>3. And, perhaps most importantly, he violated the number one protocol for anyone engaged in such studies, and probably violated Loyola's own ethics standards. He did not reveal that he was doing studies nor did he get the consent of those he was studying. this should be reported to the Loyola ethics committee<br>4.  As to the players he griefed, now that he has outed himself, they can actually complain to the university and even threaten to sue for being used in a research study without their knowledge or consent.</p><p>In short, a nerd professor discovered how to be a bully of the sort that used to give him wedgies, proceeded to do so and is now crowing about it and pretending it was research, while violating every standard for such research there is.</p><p>He ought to be fired</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
The research is fundamentally worthless and that should be pointed out to his review committee at loyolaa .
He did no form of control group whatsoeverb .
There were no parameters established for any kind of experimental protocolc .
This " stranger aggravation " experiment has been done ever since the 50s under properly controlled situations .
He did n't replicate established research , and he proved nothing new.2 .
In fact , and what should also be pointed out to his review committee at Loyola , what he has done has been to foul the water for anyone wanting to do serious research on sociological parameters inside mmorpgs3 .
And , perhaps most importantly , he violated the number one protocol for anyone engaged in such studies , and probably violated Loyola 's own ethics standards .
He did not reveal that he was doing studies nor did he get the consent of those he was studying .
this should be reported to the Loyola ethics committee4 .
As to the players he griefed , now that he has outed himself , they can actually complain to the university and even threaten to sue for being used in a research study without their knowledge or consent.In short , a nerd professor discovered how to be a bully of the sort that used to give him wedgies , proceeded to do so and is now crowing about it and pretending it was research , while violating every standard for such research there is.He ought to be fired</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
The research is fundamentally worthless and that should be pointed out to his review committee at loyolaa.
He did no form of control group whatsoeverb.
There were no parameters established for any kind of experimental protocolc.
This "stranger aggravation" experiment has been done ever since the 50s under properly controlled situations.
He didn't replicate established research, and he proved nothing new.2.
In fact, and what should also be pointed out to his review committee at Loyola, what he has done has been to foul the water for anyone wanting to do serious research on sociological parameters inside mmorpgs3.
And, perhaps most importantly, he violated the number one protocol for anyone engaged in such studies, and probably violated Loyola's own ethics standards.
He did not reveal that he was doing studies nor did he get the consent of those he was studying.
this should be reported to the Loyola ethics committee4.
As to the players he griefed, now that he has outed himself, they can actually complain to the university and even threaten to sue for being used in a research study without their knowledge or consent.In short, a nerd professor discovered how to be a bully of the sort that used to give him wedgies, proceeded to do so and is now crowing about it and pretending it was research, while violating every standard for such research there is.He ought to be fired</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605361</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246962540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You don't understand that it is not the professor that is playing, its the caracter. The hero was defeating the villains, not the professor. That's the way all RPG's are played, and in MMORPG we also find "RPG".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't understand that it is not the professor that is playing , its the caracter .
The hero was defeating the villains , not the professor .
That 's the way all RPG 's are played , and in MMORPG we also find " RPG " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't understand that it is not the professor that is playing, its the caracter.
The hero was defeating the villains, not the professor.
That's the way all RPG's are played, and in MMORPG we also find "RPG".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28618025</id>
	<title>The professor was trying to study</title>
	<author>Orion Blastar</author>
	<datestamp>1246989600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>how a player character could follow the rules of the game, and violate the unwritten rules and social norms that the players had agreed on but did not write down, nor have the game administrators enforce.</p><p>He made his character as a loner, who didn't team up too much, and developed a tactic to teleport foes into NPC Robots that shot them to death for getting too close to a safe zone.</p><p>I think he violated some ethics as a professor, and may be considered a griefer or jerk to the other players, but he did so in order to show how the other players would violate their own social norms and unwritten rules to use profanity, trying to force him to quit by dirty tricks, etc. In doing so I think he tried to show the other players as hypocrites who gladly violate the unwritten rules, while at the same time accusing his character of violating the same unwritten rules. Meanwhile his character didn't violate any games rules, just social ones the players had agreed to but not written down or enforced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>how a player character could follow the rules of the game , and violate the unwritten rules and social norms that the players had agreed on but did not write down , nor have the game administrators enforce.He made his character as a loner , who did n't team up too much , and developed a tactic to teleport foes into NPC Robots that shot them to death for getting too close to a safe zone.I think he violated some ethics as a professor , and may be considered a griefer or jerk to the other players , but he did so in order to show how the other players would violate their own social norms and unwritten rules to use profanity , trying to force him to quit by dirty tricks , etc .
In doing so I think he tried to show the other players as hypocrites who gladly violate the unwritten rules , while at the same time accusing his character of violating the same unwritten rules .
Meanwhile his character did n't violate any games rules , just social ones the players had agreed to but not written down or enforced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>how a player character could follow the rules of the game, and violate the unwritten rules and social norms that the players had agreed on but did not write down, nor have the game administrators enforce.He made his character as a loner, who didn't team up too much, and developed a tactic to teleport foes into NPC Robots that shot them to death for getting too close to a safe zone.I think he violated some ethics as a professor, and may be considered a griefer or jerk to the other players, but he did so in order to show how the other players would violate their own social norms and unwritten rules to use profanity, trying to force him to quit by dirty tricks, etc.
In doing so I think he tried to show the other players as hypocrites who gladly violate the unwritten rules, while at the same time accusing his character of violating the same unwritten rules.
Meanwhile his character didn't violate any games rules, just social ones the players had agreed to but not written down or enforced.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602683</id>
	<title>On the flip side, as a game server admin...</title>
	<author>Animaether</author>
	<datestamp>1246891500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I help host and run a Soldat server... if you're not familiar with Soldat, it's basically a real-time 2D counterstrike of sorts.  Players connect to a server and play with/against other people depending on the exact game mode, etc.</p><p>In the soldat server we run, all of the guns are allowed, and there's very little in the way of 'rules' other than not allowing teamkilling/etc.<br>( For those who suggest that if something isn't allowed, it should just be prevented via game mechanics... Users -can- teamkill (it's part of the game -dynamic- to prevent just spraying like a madman), but there's a built-in penalty system and eventually we'll ban people if they do it systematically. )</p><p>Every once in a while, however, something similar to the following happens...</p><blockquote><div><p>The folks in the game creatively and organically decided to set up their own customs opposed to the rules</p></div></blockquote><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...in that the players in the server, usually a small number, all agree to play only with knives, achieving kills only by stabbing the opponent/throwing the knife at them.</p><p>That's all good and well, until...</p><blockquote><div><p>Twixt seems more like a street preacher who hates everyone because they don't follow the rules like he does.</p></div></blockquote><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...until another player comes along, thinking that by connecting to our server which allows all guns, he should be able to play with a gun.. and is likely to do so and probably slaughter half the opposing team until one of those players yells "KNIFE ONLY, or leave!", or skips that step entirely and just votes for them to get kicked; which usually succeeds given that the existing players had agreed to play only with knives.</p><p>However, I say 'screw that'.  That's not how -we- set up those servers.  We set them up to have all the guns available, so people should be allowed to play with all those guns.. their (temporary) agreement to play only with knives is subject to -those- rules.  They want to play with knives, that's great, but I have no qualms banning users who then get their panties in a twist when another user does use a gun.</p><p>This applies to various other situations as well.  I don't count this as 'griefing'.. the player's playing exactly by the server's definition, and those who want to play the game in a different fashion are welcome to do so on a server that caters to that need.</p><p>Now I understand that in City of Heroes, you don't really get a choice of servers with different mechanics and such.</p><p>However, that leaves me with the descriptions of City of Heroes:<br><a href="http://www.cityofheroes.com/about\_the\_game/introduction/game\_synopsis\_overiew.html" title="cityofheroes.com">http://www.cityofheroes.com/about\_the\_game/introduction/game\_synopsis\_overiew.html</a> [cityofheroes.com]<br><a href="http://www.cityofheroes.com/about\_the\_game/introduction/game\_synopsis.html" title="cityofheroes.com">http://www.cityofheroes.com/about\_the\_game/introduction/game\_synopsis.html</a> [cityofheroes.com] (hero)<br><a href="http://www.cityofheroes.com/about\_the\_game/introduction/you\_are\_a\_villain.html" title="cityofheroes.com">http://www.cityofheroes.com/about\_the\_game/introduction/you\_are\_a\_villain.html</a> [cityofheroes.com] (villain)</p><p>All three describe battles between Heroes and Villains and whatnot.  Not "Mingle socially and share recipes in our expansive game world".</p><p>Seems to me that those who do that are finding themselves on the wrong server.. and given that there's only one server as it were... in the wrong game.</p><p>Obviously this Twixt character was a jackass, but the other players should consider the (vulnerable) situation they put themselves in when they interact in the game in a manner different from what the creators, hosters, etc. seem to have envisioned.<br>Either that, or get ncsoft to change the game description.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I help host and run a Soldat server... if you 're not familiar with Soldat , it 's basically a real-time 2D counterstrike of sorts .
Players connect to a server and play with/against other people depending on the exact game mode , etc.In the soldat server we run , all of the guns are allowed , and there 's very little in the way of 'rules ' other than not allowing teamkilling/etc .
( For those who suggest that if something is n't allowed , it should just be prevented via game mechanics... Users -can- teamkill ( it 's part of the game -dynamic- to prevent just spraying like a madman ) , but there 's a built-in penalty system and eventually we 'll ban people if they do it systematically .
) Every once in a while , however , something similar to the following happens...The folks in the game creatively and organically decided to set up their own customs opposed to the rules ...in that the players in the server , usually a small number , all agree to play only with knives , achieving kills only by stabbing the opponent/throwing the knife at them.That 's all good and well , until...Twixt seems more like a street preacher who hates everyone because they do n't follow the rules like he does .
...until another player comes along , thinking that by connecting to our server which allows all guns , he should be able to play with a gun.. and is likely to do so and probably slaughter half the opposing team until one of those players yells " KNIFE ONLY , or leave !
" , or skips that step entirely and just votes for them to get kicked ; which usually succeeds given that the existing players had agreed to play only with knives.However , I say 'screw that' .
That 's not how -we- set up those servers .
We set them up to have all the guns available , so people should be allowed to play with all those guns.. their ( temporary ) agreement to play only with knives is subject to -those- rules .
They want to play with knives , that 's great , but I have no qualms banning users who then get their panties in a twist when another user does use a gun.This applies to various other situations as well .
I do n't count this as 'griefing'.. the player 's playing exactly by the server 's definition , and those who want to play the game in a different fashion are welcome to do so on a server that caters to that need.Now I understand that in City of Heroes , you do n't really get a choice of servers with different mechanics and such.However , that leaves me with the descriptions of City of Heroes : http : //www.cityofheroes.com/about \ _the \ _game/introduction/game \ _synopsis \ _overiew.html [ cityofheroes.com ] http : //www.cityofheroes.com/about \ _the \ _game/introduction/game \ _synopsis.html [ cityofheroes.com ] ( hero ) http : //www.cityofheroes.com/about \ _the \ _game/introduction/you \ _are \ _a \ _villain.html [ cityofheroes.com ] ( villain ) All three describe battles between Heroes and Villains and whatnot .
Not " Mingle socially and share recipes in our expansive game world " .Seems to me that those who do that are finding themselves on the wrong server.. and given that there 's only one server as it were... in the wrong game.Obviously this Twixt character was a jackass , but the other players should consider the ( vulnerable ) situation they put themselves in when they interact in the game in a manner different from what the creators , hosters , etc .
seem to have envisioned.Either that , or get ncsoft to change the game description .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I help host and run a Soldat server... if you're not familiar with Soldat, it's basically a real-time 2D counterstrike of sorts.
Players connect to a server and play with/against other people depending on the exact game mode, etc.In the soldat server we run, all of the guns are allowed, and there's very little in the way of 'rules' other than not allowing teamkilling/etc.
( For those who suggest that if something isn't allowed, it should just be prevented via game mechanics... Users -can- teamkill (it's part of the game -dynamic- to prevent just spraying like a madman), but there's a built-in penalty system and eventually we'll ban people if they do it systematically.
)Every once in a while, however, something similar to the following happens...The folks in the game creatively and organically decided to set up their own customs opposed to the rules ...in that the players in the server, usually a small number, all agree to play only with knives, achieving kills only by stabbing the opponent/throwing the knife at them.That's all good and well, until...Twixt seems more like a street preacher who hates everyone because they don't follow the rules like he does.
...until another player comes along, thinking that by connecting to our server which allows all guns, he should be able to play with a gun.. and is likely to do so and probably slaughter half the opposing team until one of those players yells "KNIFE ONLY, or leave!
", or skips that step entirely and just votes for them to get kicked; which usually succeeds given that the existing players had agreed to play only with knives.However, I say 'screw that'.
That's not how -we- set up those servers.
We set them up to have all the guns available, so people should be allowed to play with all those guns.. their (temporary) agreement to play only with knives is subject to -those- rules.
They want to play with knives, that's great, but I have no qualms banning users who then get their panties in a twist when another user does use a gun.This applies to various other situations as well.
I don't count this as 'griefing'.. the player's playing exactly by the server's definition, and those who want to play the game in a different fashion are welcome to do so on a server that caters to that need.Now I understand that in City of Heroes, you don't really get a choice of servers with different mechanics and such.However, that leaves me with the descriptions of City of Heroes:http://www.cityofheroes.com/about\_the\_game/introduction/game\_synopsis\_overiew.html [cityofheroes.com]http://www.cityofheroes.com/about\_the\_game/introduction/game\_synopsis.html [cityofheroes.com] (hero)http://www.cityofheroes.com/about\_the\_game/introduction/you\_are\_a\_villain.html [cityofheroes.com] (villain)All three describe battles between Heroes and Villains and whatnot.
Not "Mingle socially and share recipes in our expansive game world".Seems to me that those who do that are finding themselves on the wrong server.. and given that there's only one server as it were... in the wrong game.Obviously this Twixt character was a jackass, but the other players should consider the (vulnerable) situation they put themselves in when they interact in the game in a manner different from what the creators, hosters, etc.
seem to have envisioned.Either that, or get ncsoft to change the game description.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603015</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Alrescha</author>
	<datestamp>1246893960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road. Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do"</p><p>Actually, around here failure to keep right will net you a $100 fine.   Just sayin'.</p><p>A.<br>we now return to your regularly scheduled thread</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" It 's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road .
Yeah , that 's definitely what the laws say you can do " Actually , around here failure to keep right will net you a $ 100 fine .
Just sayin'.A.we now return to your regularly scheduled thread</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"It's like people who go 45 MPH in the left lane on a 55 MPH road.
Yeah, that's definitely what the laws say you can do"Actually, around here failure to keep right will net you a $100 fine.
Just sayin'.A.we now return to your regularly scheduled thread</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601281</id>
	<title>Whiners</title>
	<author>KhazadDum</author>
	<datestamp>1246882800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seriously, don't go crying if you can't handle someone playing the game the way it was designed to be played.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , do n't go crying if you ca n't handle someone playing the game the way it was designed to be played .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, don't go crying if you can't handle someone playing the game the way it was designed to be played.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602355</id>
	<title>Old Man Murray did this before, and better:</title>
	<author>rpillala</author>
	<datestamp>1246888620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/727.html</p><p>To be fair, however, that title can apply to a great many things in gaming.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.oldmanmurray.com/features/727.htmlTo be fair , however , that title can apply to a great many things in gaming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/727.htmlTo be fair, however, that title can apply to a great many things in gaming.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28606623</id>
	<title>Re:Not Research</title>
	<author>SolitaryMan</author>
	<datestamp>1246975020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, I, as a person who never played MMO, find it quite interesting to know, how much of the game is ruled by the designers and how much by the people playing.</p><p>Do you actually have to accept some customs and rules set by the players to join?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , I , as a person who never played MMO , find it quite interesting to know , how much of the game is ruled by the designers and how much by the people playing.Do you actually have to accept some customs and rules set by the players to join ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, I, as a person who never played MMO, find it quite interesting to know, how much of the game is ruled by the designers and how much by the people playing.Do you actually have to accept some customs and rules set by the players to join?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600477</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605395</id>
	<title>Re:Griefer is reviled</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246962780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Note that in CoH you can chat with the other side whereas in WoW all you do is few basic emotes, nothing what allows you to actually talk. As a result the only way to get to know people on other side is outside the game on forums etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Note that in CoH you can chat with the other side whereas in WoW all you do is few basic emotes , nothing what allows you to actually talk .
As a result the only way to get to know people on other side is outside the game on forums etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Note that in CoH you can chat with the other side whereas in WoW all you do is few basic emotes, nothing what allows you to actually talk.
As a result the only way to get to know people on other side is outside the game on forums etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601257</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602881</id>
	<title>Uhmmm. Is his research even legal?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246893060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As far as I understand it, he involved unwilling participants into his research and never informed them of what he was doing so I suspect they never gave him consent.<br>If people really wanted to punish this guy for being an ass, it's as easy as reporting him to his chair and asking him why he felt he inflict such grief on unwilling participants.  I know most research requires that you consent and that's what bothers me most about his ass-hole antics</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as I understand it , he involved unwilling participants into his research and never informed them of what he was doing so I suspect they never gave him consent.If people really wanted to punish this guy for being an ass , it 's as easy as reporting him to his chair and asking him why he felt he inflict such grief on unwilling participants .
I know most research requires that you consent and that 's what bothers me most about his ass-hole antics</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as I understand it, he involved unwilling participants into his research and never informed them of what he was doing so I suspect they never gave him consent.If people really wanted to punish this guy for being an ass, it's as easy as reporting him to his chair and asking him why he felt he inflict such grief on unwilling participants.
I know most research requires that you consent and that's what bothers me most about his ass-hole antics</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603245</id>
	<title>Borat</title>
	<author>Gothmolly</author>
	<datestamp>1246895520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So basically, the guy was Borat?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So basically , the guy was Borat ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So basically, the guy was Borat?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605071</id>
	<title>The real headline?</title>
	<author>Gaxx</author>
	<datestamp>1246958460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Professor shocked that people act like people!"
<br> <br>
I'm amazed that this passed peer review, amazed it got attention online and even more amazed I'm commenting on it myself<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(
<br> <br>
I guess it's just troll-bait from an professional flamer...</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Professor shocked that people act like people !
" I 'm amazed that this passed peer review , amazed it got attention online and even more amazed I 'm commenting on it myself : ( I guess it 's just troll-bait from an professional flamer.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Professor shocked that people act like people!
"
 
I'm amazed that this passed peer review, amazed it got attention online and even more amazed I'm commenting on it myself :(
 
I guess it's just troll-bait from an professional flamer...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28606385</id>
	<title>Unrelated important thing learned from this:</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1246973400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On the net, laws and rules of societies can again work like they were intended to work!</p><p>See, I thought about the reasons behind laws and all, and in fact, everything can be disputed. There is no absolute right and wrong. (You can fight that truth, but you can't hide from it.)<br>Which means that nobody in per se "wrong", and right and wrong is a relative thing. (Like pretty much anything in this universe.)</p><p>This means that the only legitimate and morally acceptable "punishment", is separation. E.g. trough the bigger group expel the smaller one. Which makes the smaller group outcasts, if you want.<br>Of course this requires a space to expel them to. (Or two spaces to put them both in, in more fair words.)</p><p>Unfortunately, in reality, space is limited. So we put them in jail (Which is pretty much like expelling with pardoning after a time.), or punish them (which is only right from the punisher's perspective, and therefore does not make the punished "better" but usually "worse". [Again, from the punisher's p.o.v.])</p><p>But in virtuality, there is infinite space. So we can alway just separate them. Moderation on Slashdot is also a form of this. Just that there is one main "stream" that defines Slashdot, and everything else falls off the sides.</p><p>And that is why and how the net works. Sure we have to put up with trolls. But we get total freedom of being ourselves in exchange. I think this is very very worth it.</p><p>We should find a way, to make this work in reality, with its limited space, too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On the net , laws and rules of societies can again work like they were intended to work ! See , I thought about the reasons behind laws and all , and in fact , everything can be disputed .
There is no absolute right and wrong .
( You can fight that truth , but you ca n't hide from it .
) Which means that nobody in per se " wrong " , and right and wrong is a relative thing .
( Like pretty much anything in this universe .
) This means that the only legitimate and morally acceptable " punishment " , is separation .
E.g. trough the bigger group expel the smaller one .
Which makes the smaller group outcasts , if you want.Of course this requires a space to expel them to .
( Or two spaces to put them both in , in more fair words .
) Unfortunately , in reality , space is limited .
So we put them in jail ( Which is pretty much like expelling with pardoning after a time .
) , or punish them ( which is only right from the punisher 's perspective , and therefore does not make the punished " better " but usually " worse " .
[ Again , from the punisher 's p.o.v .
] ) But in virtuality , there is infinite space .
So we can alway just separate them .
Moderation on Slashdot is also a form of this .
Just that there is one main " stream " that defines Slashdot , and everything else falls off the sides.And that is why and how the net works .
Sure we have to put up with trolls .
But we get total freedom of being ourselves in exchange .
I think this is very very worth it.We should find a way , to make this work in reality , with its limited space , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the net, laws and rules of societies can again work like they were intended to work!See, I thought about the reasons behind laws and all, and in fact, everything can be disputed.
There is no absolute right and wrong.
(You can fight that truth, but you can't hide from it.
)Which means that nobody in per se "wrong", and right and wrong is a relative thing.
(Like pretty much anything in this universe.
)This means that the only legitimate and morally acceptable "punishment", is separation.
E.g. trough the bigger group expel the smaller one.
Which makes the smaller group outcasts, if you want.Of course this requires a space to expel them to.
(Or two spaces to put them both in, in more fair words.
)Unfortunately, in reality, space is limited.
So we put them in jail (Which is pretty much like expelling with pardoning after a time.
), or punish them (which is only right from the punisher's perspective, and therefore does not make the punished "better" but usually "worse".
[Again, from the punisher's p.o.v.
])But in virtuality, there is infinite space.
So we can alway just separate them.
Moderation on Slashdot is also a form of this.
Just that there is one main "stream" that defines Slashdot, and everything else falls off the sides.And that is why and how the net works.
Sure we have to put up with trolls.
But we get total freedom of being ourselves in exchange.
I think this is very very worth it.We should find a way, to make this work in reality, with its limited space, too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604305</id>
	<title>*shrug*</title>
	<author>Indigo</author>
	<datestamp>1246905600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People don't like assholes, film at 11...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People do n't like assholes , film at 11.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People don't like assholes, film at 11...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28606329</id>
	<title>Re:I think this experiment illustrates quite clear</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1246973100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You say that like you think it is a terrible thing. Democracy isn't an ideal, it is a compromise (it compromises things like freedom, which is an ideal (too bad it isn't workable as a principle)).</p><p>If some system other than a pure direct democracy results in people having more freedom, <strong>it's better than a direct democracy</strong>. (Quibble away, but measuring 'freedom' probably includes things like not getting murdered, so try to make it interesting)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You say that like you think it is a terrible thing .
Democracy is n't an ideal , it is a compromise ( it compromises things like freedom , which is an ideal ( too bad it is n't workable as a principle ) ) .If some system other than a pure direct democracy results in people having more freedom , it 's better than a direct democracy .
( Quibble away , but measuring 'freedom ' probably includes things like not getting murdered , so try to make it interesting )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You say that like you think it is a terrible thing.
Democracy isn't an ideal, it is a compromise (it compromises things like freedom, which is an ideal (too bad it isn't workable as a principle)).If some system other than a pure direct democracy results in people having more freedom, it's better than a direct democracy.
(Quibble away, but measuring 'freedom' probably includes things like not getting murdered, so try to make it interesting)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601129</id>
	<title>I think this experiment illustrates quite clearly</title>
	<author>al0ha</author>
	<datestamp>1246881840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>one of the reasons why there will never be a true Democracy.  The elite in every society tells the commoner and new initiate what to think, and for the most part they fall in line.</htmltext>
<tokenext>one of the reasons why there will never be a true Democracy .
The elite in every society tells the commoner and new initiate what to think , and for the most part they fall in line .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>one of the reasons why there will never be a true Democracy.
The elite in every society tells the commoner and new initiate what to think, and for the most part they fall in line.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600477</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28608817</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>FnordX</author>
	<datestamp>1246984080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine, for a moment, that you're playing in a PvP zone in CoH.  You're fighting against someone else, and they defeat you.  As you respawn, you receive one of two tells from the player playing the other character:<br>
&nbsp; <br>"Haha!  You suck!  I didn't even break a sweat!  Why don't you go home and tell your mommy how a big mean man beat you up?"<br>or<br>"That was a great fight, you almost had me a few times there!"<br>
&nbsp; <br>Both are allowed under the rules, but one makes you seem like a good sport, and the other makes you seem like a jerk.  Would you rather have a society filled with the first type of people, or the second?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine , for a moment , that you 're playing in a PvP zone in CoH .
You 're fighting against someone else , and they defeat you .
As you respawn , you receive one of two tells from the player playing the other character :   " Haha !
You suck !
I did n't even break a sweat !
Why do n't you go home and tell your mommy how a big mean man beat you up ?
" or " That was a great fight , you almost had me a few times there !
"   Both are allowed under the rules , but one makes you seem like a good sport , and the other makes you seem like a jerk .
Would you rather have a society filled with the first type of people , or the second ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine, for a moment, that you're playing in a PvP zone in CoH.
You're fighting against someone else, and they defeat you.
As you respawn, you receive one of two tells from the player playing the other character:
  "Haha!
You suck!
I didn't even break a sweat!
Why don't you go home and tell your mommy how a big mean man beat you up?
"or"That was a great fight, you almost had me a few times there!
"
  Both are allowed under the rules, but one makes you seem like a good sport, and the other makes you seem like a jerk.
Would you rather have a society filled with the first type of people, or the second?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602737</id>
	<title>Re:Being an asshole makes people angry, film at 11</title>
	<author>klui</author>
	<datestamp>1246891860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"An arena where the forces of good and evil do battle in order to see who's the best? Sounds like a blast! Wait, all they do is talk to each other and have their robots fight? What the fuck?"</i> <br> <br>Sounds like the real world where leaders of countries do the same thing and have other people fight for them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" An arena where the forces of good and evil do battle in order to see who 's the best ?
Sounds like a blast !
Wait , all they do is talk to each other and have their robots fight ?
What the fuck ?
" Sounds like the real world where leaders of countries do the same thing and have other people fight for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"An arena where the forces of good and evil do battle in order to see who's the best?
Sounds like a blast!
Wait, all they do is talk to each other and have their robots fight?
What the fuck?
"  Sounds like the real world where leaders of countries do the same thing and have other people fight for them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602513</id>
	<title>Re:Burn a flag</title>
	<author>Kingrames</author>
	<datestamp>1246889760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"It's within the rules,"<br>
For now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" It 's within the rules , " For now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"It's within the rules,"
For now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600961</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600905</id>
	<title>Muahahaha</title>
	<author>koan</author>
	<datestamp>1246880700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now they know his name....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now they know his name... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now they know his name....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28607275</id>
	<title>Re:It's a matter of perspective.</title>
	<author>Alzheimers</author>
	<datestamp>1246978260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you don't think there's conformity in Eve Online, you've never flown in an organized fleet.  When everything from your skillset to your ship fit to your overview settings are predetermined for you to maximize fleet efficiency, that's not "Individual Ambition"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... it's "Attack of the Clones."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you do n't think there 's conformity in Eve Online , you 've never flown in an organized fleet .
When everything from your skillset to your ship fit to your overview settings are predetermined for you to maximize fleet efficiency , that 's not " Individual Ambition " ... it 's " Attack of the Clones .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you don't think there's conformity in Eve Online, you've never flown in an organized fleet.
When everything from your skillset to your ship fit to your overview settings are predetermined for you to maximize fleet efficiency, that's not "Individual Ambition" ... it's "Attack of the Clones.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602041</id>
	<title>hehe good avertising for CoV/CoH though</title>
	<author>ceridan</author>
	<datestamp>1246886760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because you see, now I'm tempted to buy the game and start PVPing like mad in the PVP zones.

Down with carebears... Glory to the empire!! etc etc.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because you see , now I 'm tempted to buy the game and start PVPing like mad in the PVP zones .
Down with carebears... Glory to the empire ! !
etc etc .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because you see, now I'm tempted to buy the game and start PVPing like mad in the PVP zones.
Down with carebears... Glory to the empire!!
etc etc.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603853</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246900200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, others have pointed out the factual errors, but think about this for a minute man.</p><p>This is THE PVP area in a HEROS VS VILLAINS game. He's playing a hero. He goes in to kill villains. And HE is in the wrong?</p><p>A better analogy would be that he was doing 55 on a 55 road and really irritated the mob that was trying to use the asphault as a spread for their picnic. Solution - DONT PLAN PICNICS ON THE HIGHWAY SURFACE THAT'S NOT WHAT IT IS FOR!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , others have pointed out the factual errors , but think about this for a minute man.This is THE PVP area in a HEROS VS VILLAINS game .
He 's playing a hero .
He goes in to kill villains .
And HE is in the wrong ? A better analogy would be that he was doing 55 on a 55 road and really irritated the mob that was trying to use the asphault as a spread for their picnic .
Solution - DONT PLAN PICNICS ON THE HIGHWAY SURFACE THAT 'S NOT WHAT IT IS FOR !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, others have pointed out the factual errors, but think about this for a minute man.This is THE PVP area in a HEROS VS VILLAINS game.
He's playing a hero.
He goes in to kill villains.
And HE is in the wrong?A better analogy would be that he was doing 55 on a 55 road and really irritated the mob that was trying to use the asphault as a spread for their picnic.
Solution - DONT PLAN PICNICS ON THE HIGHWAY SURFACE THAT'S NOT WHAT IT IS FOR!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602959</id>
	<title>Re:He has no idea what he's playing</title>
	<author>Arker</author>
	<datestamp>1246893660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a clearly marked PVP zone, in a game where everyone is on one side or the other and they are supposed to be constantly at war. If you want a farm a zone like that you do it at your own risk, and getting butthurt because someone on the other team was actually playing their character is just absurd and pathetic.</p><p>The same kind of idiocy this researcher found in this game definitely goes back a long ways though. I remember encountering it in MUDs way back in the 80s, and the cross-teaming that killed Everquest race-war pvp comes from the same source conceptually as well. These are players with no interest or appreciation for the game at all, who enjoy destroying it for others while chatting with their "friends" on the other side (who should be their mortal enemies) instead of actually playing.</p><p>No sympathy for them at all. IMOP they are deserving of the "griefer" epithet, not him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a clearly marked PVP zone , in a game where everyone is on one side or the other and they are supposed to be constantly at war .
If you want a farm a zone like that you do it at your own risk , and getting butthurt because someone on the other team was actually playing their character is just absurd and pathetic.The same kind of idiocy this researcher found in this game definitely goes back a long ways though .
I remember encountering it in MUDs way back in the 80s , and the cross-teaming that killed Everquest race-war pvp comes from the same source conceptually as well .
These are players with no interest or appreciation for the game at all , who enjoy destroying it for others while chatting with their " friends " on the other side ( who should be their mortal enemies ) instead of actually playing.No sympathy for them at all .
IMOP they are deserving of the " griefer " epithet , not him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a clearly marked PVP zone, in a game where everyone is on one side or the other and they are supposed to be constantly at war.
If you want a farm a zone like that you do it at your own risk, and getting butthurt because someone on the other team was actually playing their character is just absurd and pathetic.The same kind of idiocy this researcher found in this game definitely goes back a long ways though.
I remember encountering it in MUDs way back in the 80s, and the cross-teaming that killed Everquest race-war pvp comes from the same source conceptually as well.
These are players with no interest or appreciation for the game at all, who enjoy destroying it for others while chatting with their "friends" on the other side (who should be their mortal enemies) instead of actually playing.No sympathy for them at all.
IMOP they are deserving of the "griefer" epithet, not him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603311</id>
	<title>Re:I think this experiment illustrates quite clear</title>
	<author>BPPG</author>
	<datestamp>1246896000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd say that you had better tread carefully when comparing democracy to an online RPG.  The researcher did no hacking, and only broke the "cultural" rules.  A group of Quake players may have house rules against camping or spawn-killing, but the real "rules" are the only the ones put into place by the designers/developers, not the players, and so-called "spoken" rules don't really matter without modifications or admins to enforce them within the game.</p><p>I'm not saying I think your conclusion is incorrect, I just think it's a funny context to draw it from.  So in this case, if the high level players are the cultural elite then what does that make the devs?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd say that you had better tread carefully when comparing democracy to an online RPG .
The researcher did no hacking , and only broke the " cultural " rules .
A group of Quake players may have house rules against camping or spawn-killing , but the real " rules " are the only the ones put into place by the designers/developers , not the players , and so-called " spoken " rules do n't really matter without modifications or admins to enforce them within the game.I 'm not saying I think your conclusion is incorrect , I just think it 's a funny context to draw it from .
So in this case , if the high level players are the cultural elite then what does that make the devs ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd say that you had better tread carefully when comparing democracy to an online RPG.
The researcher did no hacking, and only broke the "cultural" rules.
A group of Quake players may have house rules against camping or spawn-killing, but the real "rules" are the only the ones put into place by the designers/developers, not the players, and so-called "spoken" rules don't really matter without modifications or admins to enforce them within the game.I'm not saying I think your conclusion is incorrect, I just think it's a funny context to draw it from.
So in this case, if the high level players are the cultural elite then what does that make the devs?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28607241</id>
	<title>Re:Carebears</title>
	<author>Alzheimers</author>
	<datestamp>1246978140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In a mothership on a lowsec gate, you can get a lot of kills but you only need to die once for the fun to come to an abrupt end.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In a mothership on a lowsec gate , you can get a lot of kills but you only need to die once for the fun to come to an abrupt end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a mothership on a lowsec gate, you can get a lot of kills but you only need to die once for the fun to come to an abrupt end.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600735</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600777</id>
	<title>Re:If it's within the rules, it's within the rules</title>
	<author>mwvdlee</author>
	<datestamp>1246880040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A player was being irritating, which is within the rules.<br>The rest of the players turned him into an outcast, which is also within the rules.<br>I don't see the problem here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A player was being irritating , which is within the rules.The rest of the players turned him into an outcast , which is also within the rules.I do n't see the problem here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A player was being irritating, which is within the rules.The rest of the players turned him into an outcast, which is also within the rules.I don't see the problem here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600535</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28607267</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246978200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is THE PVP area in a HEROS VS VILLAINS game. He's playing a hero. He goes in to kill villains. And HE is in the wrong?</p></div><p>I'm sorry, I must have missed the issue where Superman sees Lex Luthor standing around minding his own business and kills him in cold blood. Hell, even Batman didn't hunt down and kill the man who kill his parents.</p><p>Even The Punisher waits for villains to do something before he kills them. An he is considered an anti-hero at best.</p><p>This guy was playing a mass-murderer with a cape and pretending to be a good guy. He should have at least had the decency to join the Villain side.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is THE PVP area in a HEROS VS VILLAINS game .
He 's playing a hero .
He goes in to kill villains .
And HE is in the wrong ? I 'm sorry , I must have missed the issue where Superman sees Lex Luthor standing around minding his own business and kills him in cold blood .
Hell , even Batman did n't hunt down and kill the man who kill his parents.Even The Punisher waits for villains to do something before he kills them .
An he is considered an anti-hero at best.This guy was playing a mass-murderer with a cape and pretending to be a good guy .
He should have at least had the decency to join the Villain side .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is THE PVP area in a HEROS VS VILLAINS game.
He's playing a hero.
He goes in to kill villains.
And HE is in the wrong?I'm sorry, I must have missed the issue where Superman sees Lex Luthor standing around minding his own business and kills him in cold blood.
Hell, even Batman didn't hunt down and kill the man who kill his parents.Even The Punisher waits for villains to do something before he kills them.
An he is considered an anti-hero at best.This guy was playing a mass-murderer with a cape and pretending to be a good guy.
He should have at least had the decency to join the Villain side.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603853</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600783</id>
	<title>Re:Carebears</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246880040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pet peeve of mine: Players who join team games but don't help the team achieve the stated objective. "I'm here to have fun, stop bugging me!" No, this is a team game and YOU are the ass if you don't help your team. Then I get kicked for getting in the way of their self-centered fun...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pet peeve of mine : Players who join team games but do n't help the team achieve the stated objective .
" I 'm here to have fun , stop bugging me !
" No , this is a team game and YOU are the ass if you do n't help your team .
Then I get kicked for getting in the way of their self-centered fun.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pet peeve of mine: Players who join team games but don't help the team achieve the stated objective.
"I'm here to have fun, stop bugging me!
" No, this is a team game and YOU are the ass if you don't help your team.
Then I get kicked for getting in the way of their self-centered fun...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600571</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602411</id>
	<title>Ummmm Bad Game!</title>
	<author>schlick</author>
	<datestamp>1246888980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've never played it, but it seems to me that a game where players get upset at some one for playing according to the rules is a bad game.  Second if he was truly using an exploit then why didn't the developers patch it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've never played it , but it seems to me that a game where players get upset at some one for playing according to the rules is a bad game .
Second if he was truly using an exploit then why did n't the developers patch it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've never played it, but it seems to me that a game where players get upset at some one for playing according to the rules is a bad game.
Second if he was truly using an exploit then why didn't the developers patch it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601431</id>
	<title>Re:within the rules doesnt mean its within the rul</title>
	<author>cbhacking</author>
	<datestamp>1246883460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>See, that's why I love Eve Online. We (an alliance of over 1000 players on a server with hundreds of thousands) *make* the rules, at least in our own section of space. Jumping a transport through our space as a neutral pilot (we don't know you and have no standings set) will get you killed where we hang out. Want your loot back? Sure, we'll offer it - but we'll put a steep markup on it compared to what we'd ask from the alliance. If you don't like it, stick to NRDS (Not Red, Don't Shoot, i.e. only kill hostile ships) space. On the other hand, if you want to join us, go ahead and ask - we're usually recriuting to some extent or another. We'll even take in new players and help them bet set up, which a lot of alliances have no interest in doing. Why operate this way? It's how we like to play. Don't like it? Stay out of our way (we occupy about a dozen systems, with presence in perhaps a dozen more, out of many hundreds) or get your own alliance together (or join one) and fight us. Seriosuly, bring it - the game is no fun when you have to fly 40 systems away to get an PvP.</p><p>I can totally sympathise with this guy. He was just in the wrong game - apparently City of Heroes/Villians is simply overrun with carebears.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See , that 's why I love Eve Online .
We ( an alliance of over 1000 players on a server with hundreds of thousands ) * make * the rules , at least in our own section of space .
Jumping a transport through our space as a neutral pilot ( we do n't know you and have no standings set ) will get you killed where we hang out .
Want your loot back ?
Sure , we 'll offer it - but we 'll put a steep markup on it compared to what we 'd ask from the alliance .
If you do n't like it , stick to NRDS ( Not Red , Do n't Shoot , i.e .
only kill hostile ships ) space .
On the other hand , if you want to join us , go ahead and ask - we 're usually recriuting to some extent or another .
We 'll even take in new players and help them bet set up , which a lot of alliances have no interest in doing .
Why operate this way ?
It 's how we like to play .
Do n't like it ?
Stay out of our way ( we occupy about a dozen systems , with presence in perhaps a dozen more , out of many hundreds ) or get your own alliance together ( or join one ) and fight us .
Seriosuly , bring it - the game is no fun when you have to fly 40 systems away to get an PvP.I can totally sympathise with this guy .
He was just in the wrong game - apparently City of Heroes/Villians is simply overrun with carebears .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See, that's why I love Eve Online.
We (an alliance of over 1000 players on a server with hundreds of thousands) *make* the rules, at least in our own section of space.
Jumping a transport through our space as a neutral pilot (we don't know you and have no standings set) will get you killed where we hang out.
Want your loot back?
Sure, we'll offer it - but we'll put a steep markup on it compared to what we'd ask from the alliance.
If you don't like it, stick to NRDS (Not Red, Don't Shoot, i.e.
only kill hostile ships) space.
On the other hand, if you want to join us, go ahead and ask - we're usually recriuting to some extent or another.
We'll even take in new players and help them bet set up, which a lot of alliances have no interest in doing.
Why operate this way?
It's how we like to play.
Don't like it?
Stay out of our way (we occupy about a dozen systems, with presence in perhaps a dozen more, out of many hundreds) or get your own alliance together (or join one) and fight us.
Seriosuly, bring it - the game is no fun when you have to fly 40 systems away to get an PvP.I can totally sympathise with this guy.
He was just in the wrong game - apparently City of Heroes/Villians is simply overrun with carebears.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601301</id>
	<title>How is this original?</title>
	<author>levicivita</author>
	<datestamp>1246882860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From the days of mIRC to today's Web 2.0 (see for example <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;rls=com.microsoft\%3Aen-us&amp;q=alex+vayner" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">this</a> [google.com]), the web is as brutal of friendly place as real life is.  Is this trivial 'insight' really worth lifetime guaranteed employment, i.e. tenure?  It sounds more like dear Prof was trying to expense / justify his online MMO addictions.<br> <br> <i>"Sorry, I cannot teach the lecture this afternoon, I have an important meeting to attend in the City of Heroes."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>From the days of mIRC to today 's Web 2.0 ( see for example this [ google.com ] ) , the web is as brutal of friendly place as real life is .
Is this trivial 'insight ' really worth lifetime guaranteed employment , i.e .
tenure ? It sounds more like dear Prof was trying to expense / justify his online MMO addictions .
" Sorry , I can not teach the lecture this afternoon , I have an important meeting to attend in the City of Heroes .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the days of mIRC to today's Web 2.0 (see for example this [google.com]), the web is as brutal of friendly place as real life is.
Is this trivial 'insight' really worth lifetime guaranteed employment, i.e.
tenure?  It sounds more like dear Prof was trying to expense / justify his online MMO addictions.
"Sorry, I cannot teach the lecture this afternoon, I have an important meeting to attend in the City of Heroes.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28603533</id>
	<title>Somebody read a Gladwell article</title>
	<author>snowwrestler</author>
	<datestamp>1246897680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Congrats! Now if you ever actually played basketball competitively you'd know that almost any good team employs the full court press, but does so selectively. That's because it is not hard to beat with a bit of good coaching, particularly if the pressing team is relying more on effort than skill.</p><p>Gladwell did what he always does, which is blow an interesting story way out of proportion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Congrats !
Now if you ever actually played basketball competitively you 'd know that almost any good team employs the full court press , but does so selectively .
That 's because it is not hard to beat with a bit of good coaching , particularly if the pressing team is relying more on effort than skill.Gladwell did what he always does , which is blow an interesting story way out of proportion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Congrats!
Now if you ever actually played basketball competitively you'd know that almost any good team employs the full court press, but does so selectively.
That's because it is not hard to beat with a bit of good coaching, particularly if the pressing team is relying more on effort than skill.Gladwell did what he always does, which is blow an interesting story way out of proportion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600619</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600849</id>
	<title>Re:Full Court Press</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246880340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The full court press is extremely effective, yet if you use it, the other team will no doubt call your win "cheap".<br>Poor losers will always attempt to excuse themselves by attacking the other team. Any team that accuses another of being "cheap" got outplayed and doesn't know how to compensate legitimately.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The full court press is extremely effective , yet if you use it , the other team will no doubt call your win " cheap " .Poor losers will always attempt to excuse themselves by attacking the other team .
Any team that accuses another of being " cheap " got outplayed and does n't know how to compensate legitimately .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The full court press is extremely effective, yet if you use it, the other team will no doubt call your win "cheap".Poor losers will always attempt to excuse themselves by attacking the other team.
Any team that accuses another of being "cheap" got outplayed and doesn't know how to compensate legitimately.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600619</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602271</id>
	<title>Is the story the whole story?</title>
	<author>K.os023</author>
	<datestamp>1246888080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Comments on TFA say that the situation was not exactly as represented in TFA.

From <a href="http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/loyola\_university\_professor\_be.html#4222901" title="nola.com" rel="nofollow">here</a> [nola.com]:<p><div class="quote"><p>I'm actually a CoH player who PvPed both with and against Twixt (I am not any of the players named, and my verbal interactions with Twixt were quite limited). I'd like to clear up a few things that seem to be missing. Note that I am, in no way, discounting the seriousness of death threats, but maybe a little more understanding of what really took place will allow people to relate better to the frustration.<br> <br>

1) Twixt's actions in PvP translated to an investment of time. By teleporting (the action described) villains into a row of firing squad computer-generated enemies, he would give the other character debt. This debt would impede the character's ability to gain experience by cutting it in half for a certain period of time. Thus, anyone who suffered from what Twixt did would pay for it by having their progress cut in half the next time they got the opportunity to play. A full portion of debt could take upwards of 3 hours of nonstop play to be worked off.<br> <br>

Imagine you go play miniature golf. Directly in front of you is a group of 10 children who have no idea what they're doing. You are unable to skip past them, and as is allowed, they refuse to let you pass. Due to this inconvenience, you only get to play 9 holes (or 4, if you're only on a 9-hole course). Would you be frustrated? I sure would be. They didn't break the rules, but they hurt the fun of my outing by specifically robbing me of the time that I had dedicated to accomplishing my goal. It's not much different than traffic, bowling balls getting stuck in the lanes, people talking during a movie, or any other issue that would rob an individual of their free time. The individuals causing your frustration may not be breaking the rules, but they are affecting your enjoyment.<br> <br>

2) Twixt's account of what took place in the PvP zones he visited just plain isn't accurate.<br> <br>

People did chat because many of the players had played together prior to the release of City of Villains (CoH was released in May of 2004 while CoV in October of 2006). Most of us already knew each other. However, that didn't result in a lack of fighting. Many times, Twixt would simply teleport people from battles already in place to his computer-generated death squads. He's presenting the situation as if he was the only one using the zones correctly when, in actuality, he was just the only one manipulating loopholes to allow him to generally be mean to other players. That's the biggest reason why he was despised.<br> <br>

3) Twixt commonly made fun of players he killed.<br> <br>

He did not simply say random hero-supporting things, he oftentimes bragged openly after using his computer-generated helpers to kill someone. Like any other competitive situation, bragging and talking trash will earn people talking back and becoming more upset. He worked to goad individuals into becoming angrier at what he did.<br> <br>

He mentions the forums as a place where people speculated about parts of his life, but he seems to have left out where he posted kill-logs from his time spent in PvP zones. He posted quite frequently on those boards, and he went out of his way to fuel the hate that developed for him. Professional athletes who do such a thing are widely derided by the media and fans. Twixt worked hard to generate hate, he was not simply an innocent victim.<br> <br>

4) Twixt died. A lot.<br> <br>

Twixt perfected his method of generating debt for other players by dying a whole lot along the way. Statements like, "But no one could stay alive long enough to defeat Twixt..." completely misrepresent what happened.<br> <br>

5) Twixt's research plays a role by examining another realm of society, but his results are predictable.<br> <br>

It's not surprising that people get upset when you're mean to them without reason. On an unmarked curb, it's legal for me to park 5 feet away from the cars in front of and behind me, but it's simply rude to do so. If I did so directly in front of hundreds of different people who were looking for a parking spot, it's not unreasonable to think that these individuals would be angry with me. I would say that's completely predictable. It's also not unheard of for such individuals to threaten others in such a situation. The fact that the anonymity of the internet allows such hotheads to go more extreme with their threats shouldn't exactly come as a shock to anyone either. Thus, while I think research into the societies of online communities can be interesting, I don't think Twixt's can be classified as such.<br> <br>

It's a shame that Twixt is the face of the CoH PvP and gaming community. He presents a very one-sided tale that some folks, such as the writer of this article, have apparently bought into entirely. A whole lot of good takes place in that community, but apparently, writing about that just wouldn't sell a book.</p></div><p>I don't play the game, so I don't know how true it all is, but I find this very believable.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Comments on TFA say that the situation was not exactly as represented in TFA .
From here [ nola.com ] : I 'm actually a CoH player who PvPed both with and against Twixt ( I am not any of the players named , and my verbal interactions with Twixt were quite limited ) .
I 'd like to clear up a few things that seem to be missing .
Note that I am , in no way , discounting the seriousness of death threats , but maybe a little more understanding of what really took place will allow people to relate better to the frustration .
1 ) Twixt 's actions in PvP translated to an investment of time .
By teleporting ( the action described ) villains into a row of firing squad computer-generated enemies , he would give the other character debt .
This debt would impede the character 's ability to gain experience by cutting it in half for a certain period of time .
Thus , anyone who suffered from what Twixt did would pay for it by having their progress cut in half the next time they got the opportunity to play .
A full portion of debt could take upwards of 3 hours of nonstop play to be worked off .
Imagine you go play miniature golf .
Directly in front of you is a group of 10 children who have no idea what they 're doing .
You are unable to skip past them , and as is allowed , they refuse to let you pass .
Due to this inconvenience , you only get to play 9 holes ( or 4 , if you 're only on a 9-hole course ) .
Would you be frustrated ?
I sure would be .
They did n't break the rules , but they hurt the fun of my outing by specifically robbing me of the time that I had dedicated to accomplishing my goal .
It 's not much different than traffic , bowling balls getting stuck in the lanes , people talking during a movie , or any other issue that would rob an individual of their free time .
The individuals causing your frustration may not be breaking the rules , but they are affecting your enjoyment .
2 ) Twixt 's account of what took place in the PvP zones he visited just plain is n't accurate .
People did chat because many of the players had played together prior to the release of City of Villains ( CoH was released in May of 2004 while CoV in October of 2006 ) .
Most of us already knew each other .
However , that did n't result in a lack of fighting .
Many times , Twixt would simply teleport people from battles already in place to his computer-generated death squads .
He 's presenting the situation as if he was the only one using the zones correctly when , in actuality , he was just the only one manipulating loopholes to allow him to generally be mean to other players .
That 's the biggest reason why he was despised .
3 ) Twixt commonly made fun of players he killed .
He did not simply say random hero-supporting things , he oftentimes bragged openly after using his computer-generated helpers to kill someone .
Like any other competitive situation , bragging and talking trash will earn people talking back and becoming more upset .
He worked to goad individuals into becoming angrier at what he did .
He mentions the forums as a place where people speculated about parts of his life , but he seems to have left out where he posted kill-logs from his time spent in PvP zones .
He posted quite frequently on those boards , and he went out of his way to fuel the hate that developed for him .
Professional athletes who do such a thing are widely derided by the media and fans .
Twixt worked hard to generate hate , he was not simply an innocent victim .
4 ) Twixt died .
A lot .
Twixt perfected his method of generating debt for other players by dying a whole lot along the way .
Statements like , " But no one could stay alive long enough to defeat Twixt... " completely misrepresent what happened .
5 ) Twixt 's research plays a role by examining another realm of society , but his results are predictable .
It 's not surprising that people get upset when you 're mean to them without reason .
On an unmarked curb , it 's legal for me to park 5 feet away from the cars in front of and behind me , but it 's simply rude to do so .
If I did so directly in front of hundreds of different people who were looking for a parking spot , it 's not unreasonable to think that these individuals would be angry with me .
I would say that 's completely predictable .
It 's also not unheard of for such individuals to threaten others in such a situation .
The fact that the anonymity of the internet allows such hotheads to go more extreme with their threats should n't exactly come as a shock to anyone either .
Thus , while I think research into the societies of online communities can be interesting , I do n't think Twixt 's can be classified as such .
It 's a shame that Twixt is the face of the CoH PvP and gaming community .
He presents a very one-sided tale that some folks , such as the writer of this article , have apparently bought into entirely .
A whole lot of good takes place in that community , but apparently , writing about that just would n't sell a book.I do n't play the game , so I do n't know how true it all is , but I find this very believable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Comments on TFA say that the situation was not exactly as represented in TFA.
From here [nola.com]:I'm actually a CoH player who PvPed both with and against Twixt (I am not any of the players named, and my verbal interactions with Twixt were quite limited).
I'd like to clear up a few things that seem to be missing.
Note that I am, in no way, discounting the seriousness of death threats, but maybe a little more understanding of what really took place will allow people to relate better to the frustration.
1) Twixt's actions in PvP translated to an investment of time.
By teleporting (the action described) villains into a row of firing squad computer-generated enemies, he would give the other character debt.
This debt would impede the character's ability to gain experience by cutting it in half for a certain period of time.
Thus, anyone who suffered from what Twixt did would pay for it by having their progress cut in half the next time they got the opportunity to play.
A full portion of debt could take upwards of 3 hours of nonstop play to be worked off.
Imagine you go play miniature golf.
Directly in front of you is a group of 10 children who have no idea what they're doing.
You are unable to skip past them, and as is allowed, they refuse to let you pass.
Due to this inconvenience, you only get to play 9 holes (or 4, if you're only on a 9-hole course).
Would you be frustrated?
I sure would be.
They didn't break the rules, but they hurt the fun of my outing by specifically robbing me of the time that I had dedicated to accomplishing my goal.
It's not much different than traffic, bowling balls getting stuck in the lanes, people talking during a movie, or any other issue that would rob an individual of their free time.
The individuals causing your frustration may not be breaking the rules, but they are affecting your enjoyment.
2) Twixt's account of what took place in the PvP zones he visited just plain isn't accurate.
People did chat because many of the players had played together prior to the release of City of Villains (CoH was released in May of 2004 while CoV in October of 2006).
Most of us already knew each other.
However, that didn't result in a lack of fighting.
Many times, Twixt would simply teleport people from battles already in place to his computer-generated death squads.
He's presenting the situation as if he was the only one using the zones correctly when, in actuality, he was just the only one manipulating loopholes to allow him to generally be mean to other players.
That's the biggest reason why he was despised.
3) Twixt commonly made fun of players he killed.
He did not simply say random hero-supporting things, he oftentimes bragged openly after using his computer-generated helpers to kill someone.
Like any other competitive situation, bragging and talking trash will earn people talking back and becoming more upset.
He worked to goad individuals into becoming angrier at what he did.
He mentions the forums as a place where people speculated about parts of his life, but he seems to have left out where he posted kill-logs from his time spent in PvP zones.
He posted quite frequently on those boards, and he went out of his way to fuel the hate that developed for him.
Professional athletes who do such a thing are widely derided by the media and fans.
Twixt worked hard to generate hate, he was not simply an innocent victim.
4) Twixt died.
A lot.
Twixt perfected his method of generating debt for other players by dying a whole lot along the way.
Statements like, "But no one could stay alive long enough to defeat Twixt..." completely misrepresent what happened.
5) Twixt's research plays a role by examining another realm of society, but his results are predictable.
It's not surprising that people get upset when you're mean to them without reason.
On an unmarked curb, it's legal for me to park 5 feet away from the cars in front of and behind me, but it's simply rude to do so.
If I did so directly in front of hundreds of different people who were looking for a parking spot, it's not unreasonable to think that these individuals would be angry with me.
I would say that's completely predictable.
It's also not unheard of for such individuals to threaten others in such a situation.
The fact that the anonymity of the internet allows such hotheads to go more extreme with their threats shouldn't exactly come as a shock to anyone either.
Thus, while I think research into the societies of online communities can be interesting, I don't think Twixt's can be classified as such.
It's a shame that Twixt is the face of the CoH PvP and gaming community.
He presents a very one-sided tale that some folks, such as the writer of this article, have apparently bought into entirely.
A whole lot of good takes place in that community, but apparently, writing about that just wouldn't sell a book.I don't play the game, so I don't know how true it all is, but I find this very believable.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28607837</id>
	<title>EVE</title>
	<author>vell0cet</author>
	<datestamp>1246980300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>He should try all that in EVE.  That stuff is not only welcomed, but you read about it on gaming sites if the reprocussions of what you do are big enough.<br><br>It would be interesting to see if there are societal difference based on the game that you play.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He should try all that in EVE .
That stuff is not only welcomed , but you read about it on gaming sites if the reprocussions of what you do are big enough.It would be interesting to see if there are societal difference based on the game that you play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He should try all that in EVE.
That stuff is not only welcomed, but you read about it on gaming sites if the reprocussions of what you do are big enough.It would be interesting to see if there are societal difference based on the game that you play.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28604591</id>
	<title>Re:Who makes the "rules" of a community?</title>
	<author>overbaud</author>
	<datestamp>1246909620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>[parent]Why do you say that going around beating up villains is actually "playing the game" and the people standing around and chatting aren't? Who gets to say what the game actually is? The developers or the people who play it?[/parent]

Ummm... the people that write the code that is the application get to make the rules. Or the people who pay the developers to write code get to make the rules, the people selling the services. The people who do not get to make the rules are the people who do not own the product or service. If you actually read his paper he WAS NOT SUPRISED to find people having a cry. Low and behold people behave like people online and buy into social norms online and are subject to group think online just like in real life. What he was surprised about was how stong their resentment was with death threats etc. obviously he needs to get online more.

At the end of the day he had fun, beat them by the established rules, furthered research into human behaviour, publish a paper and got written up on slashdot and other sites. I would say he came out ahead and everyone that had a cry needs to harden up and deserves to be laughed at because they were outsmarted and out played. He is not worried by them as he has gone very public with who he is.

My personal opinion is that the people getting smacked about played 'make believe' to escape real life where they are weak submissive individuals. Playing 'make believe'  allowed them to clutch at threads of self esteem and when the professor removed that straw man they reacted in anger at having 'fake life' mirror 'real life'.

Bass cranked up at 3am is illegal, public nuisance for starters. What the professor did is not illegal. Your examples suck.</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ parent ] Why do you say that going around beating up villains is actually " playing the game " and the people standing around and chatting are n't ?
Who gets to say what the game actually is ?
The developers or the people who play it ?
[ /parent ] Ummm... the people that write the code that is the application get to make the rules .
Or the people who pay the developers to write code get to make the rules , the people selling the services .
The people who do not get to make the rules are the people who do not own the product or service .
If you actually read his paper he WAS NOT SUPRISED to find people having a cry .
Low and behold people behave like people online and buy into social norms online and are subject to group think online just like in real life .
What he was surprised about was how stong their resentment was with death threats etc .
obviously he needs to get online more .
At the end of the day he had fun , beat them by the established rules , furthered research into human behaviour , publish a paper and got written up on slashdot and other sites .
I would say he came out ahead and everyone that had a cry needs to harden up and deserves to be laughed at because they were outsmarted and out played .
He is not worried by them as he has gone very public with who he is .
My personal opinion is that the people getting smacked about played 'make believe ' to escape real life where they are weak submissive individuals .
Playing 'make believe ' allowed them to clutch at threads of self esteem and when the professor removed that straw man they reacted in anger at having 'fake life ' mirror 'real life' .
Bass cranked up at 3am is illegal , public nuisance for starters .
What the professor did is not illegal .
Your examples suck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[parent]Why do you say that going around beating up villains is actually "playing the game" and the people standing around and chatting aren't?
Who gets to say what the game actually is?
The developers or the people who play it?
[/parent]

Ummm... the people that write the code that is the application get to make the rules.
Or the people who pay the developers to write code get to make the rules, the people selling the services.
The people who do not get to make the rules are the people who do not own the product or service.
If you actually read his paper he WAS NOT SUPRISED to find people having a cry.
Low and behold people behave like people online and buy into social norms online and are subject to group think online just like in real life.
What he was surprised about was how stong their resentment was with death threats etc.
obviously he needs to get online more.
At the end of the day he had fun, beat them by the established rules, furthered research into human behaviour, publish a paper and got written up on slashdot and other sites.
I would say he came out ahead and everyone that had a cry needs to harden up and deserves to be laughed at because they were outsmarted and out played.
He is not worried by them as he has gone very public with who he is.
My personal opinion is that the people getting smacked about played 'make believe' to escape real life where they are weak submissive individuals.
Playing 'make believe'  allowed them to clutch at threads of self esteem and when the professor removed that straw man they reacted in anger at having 'fake life' mirror 'real life'.
Bass cranked up at 3am is illegal, public nuisance for starters.
What the professor did is not illegal.
Your examples suck.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28633221</id>
	<title>Very funny concept</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247171820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a long time COX player, and the fact of the matter is what he was doing is considered bad form. COH/COV has clear PVP zones. And only one is really built for what he did, Siren's Call. You can use Teleport Foes to place a foe in front of NPC security drones in certain places. This is kinda rude because NPCs cause experience debt in PVP zones where Players don't. If he was using his own bots or other players, its still a bit rough but within accepted PVP gameplay. Honestly, I've done both. But I reserve droning for people who abuse the Teleport Foe power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a long time COX player , and the fact of the matter is what he was doing is considered bad form .
COH/COV has clear PVP zones .
And only one is really built for what he did , Siren 's Call .
You can use Teleport Foes to place a foe in front of NPC security drones in certain places .
This is kinda rude because NPCs cause experience debt in PVP zones where Players do n't .
If he was using his own bots or other players , its still a bit rough but within accepted PVP gameplay .
Honestly , I 've done both .
But I reserve droning for people who abuse the Teleport Foe power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a long time COX player, and the fact of the matter is what he was doing is considered bad form.
COH/COV has clear PVP zones.
And only one is really built for what he did, Siren's Call.
You can use Teleport Foes to place a foe in front of NPC security drones in certain places.
This is kinda rude because NPCs cause experience debt in PVP zones where Players don't.
If he was using his own bots or other players, its still a bit rough but within accepted PVP gameplay.
Honestly, I've done both.
But I reserve droning for people who abuse the Teleport Foe power.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600807</id>
	<title>What an ass...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246880160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having read the full article, it appears as though the "researcher" did nothing more than hang out in the combat zones in CoH/CoV and teleport the oposing faction in to a line of guards who would instakill anyone who got too close. (making the line "but he was too skilled to be driven off" extra hillarious).
</p><p>
He would then troll the general chat with stuff like (direct quote here):
</p><blockquote><div><p>"Yay, heroes. Go good team. Vills lose again,"</p></div></blockquote><p>
I couldn't make this shit up if I were trying.<br> <br>

His grand conclusion?</p><blockquote><div><p>
in the game's chat box, users like Hunter-Killed responded, "U are a major sh--bird."
</p><p>
Another player added, "I hope your mother gets cancer." Yet another wrote, "EVERYONE HATES YOU."
</p><p>
Myers was stunned by the reaction, since he obeyed the game's rules.
</p></div>
</blockquote><blockquote><div><p>"If you aren't a member of the tribe, you get whacked with a stick," he said. "I look at social groups with dismay."</p></div>
</blockquote><p>What's this guy's next "research" project? Going down to the bus station and punching old ladies in the nose?</p><p>This guy wasn't doing research, he just wanted a tax write off and a grant to do nothing but sit around and be a dick on the internet.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Having read the full article , it appears as though the " researcher " did nothing more than hang out in the combat zones in CoH/CoV and teleport the oposing faction in to a line of guards who would instakill anyone who got too close .
( making the line " but he was too skilled to be driven off " extra hillarious ) .
He would then troll the general chat with stuff like ( direct quote here ) : " Yay , heroes .
Go good team .
Vills lose again , " I could n't make this shit up if I were trying .
His grand conclusion ?
in the game 's chat box , users like Hunter-Killed responded , " U are a major sh--bird .
" Another player added , " I hope your mother gets cancer .
" Yet another wrote , " EVERYONE HATES YOU .
" Myers was stunned by the reaction , since he obeyed the game 's rules .
" If you are n't a member of the tribe , you get whacked with a stick , " he said .
" I look at social groups with dismay .
" What 's this guy 's next " research " project ?
Going down to the bus station and punching old ladies in the nose ? This guy was n't doing research , he just wanted a tax write off and a grant to do nothing but sit around and be a dick on the internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having read the full article, it appears as though the "researcher" did nothing more than hang out in the combat zones in CoH/CoV and teleport the oposing faction in to a line of guards who would instakill anyone who got too close.
(making the line "but he was too skilled to be driven off" extra hillarious).
He would then troll the general chat with stuff like (direct quote here):
"Yay, heroes.
Go good team.
Vills lose again,"
I couldn't make this shit up if I were trying.
His grand conclusion?
in the game's chat box, users like Hunter-Killed responded, "U are a major sh--bird.
"

Another player added, "I hope your mother gets cancer.
" Yet another wrote, "EVERYONE HATES YOU.
"

Myers was stunned by the reaction, since he obeyed the game's rules.
"If you aren't a member of the tribe, you get whacked with a stick," he said.
"I look at social groups with dismay.
"
What's this guy's next "research" project?
Going down to the bus station and punching old ladies in the nose?This guy wasn't doing research, he just wanted a tax write off and a grant to do nothing but sit around and be a dick on the internet.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28609517</id>
	<title>Re:More of a study of Socialogy than Video Games..</title>
	<author>pbhj</author>
	<datestamp>1246986780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How do you play baseball by yourself?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you play baseball by yourself ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you play baseball by yourself?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600829</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28601835</id>
	<title>Re:Not trolling</title>
	<author>MrMista\_B</author>
	<datestamp>1246885560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You think publically calling people 'a piece of shit', is somehow not trolling?</p><p>I'm sorry, but your post reflects complete igorance of what the word 'troll' means in modern culture, and specifically in regards to this article.</p><p>If someone came up to you in a game, called you a piece of shit, a coward, an asshole, a pigfucker, then killed you - would you call that 'not trolling'?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You think publically calling people 'a piece of shit ' , is somehow not trolling ? I 'm sorry , but your post reflects complete igorance of what the word 'troll ' means in modern culture , and specifically in regards to this article.If someone came up to you in a game , called you a piece of shit , a coward , an asshole , a pigfucker , then killed you - would you call that 'not trolling ' ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You think publically calling people 'a piece of shit', is somehow not trolling?I'm sorry, but your post reflects complete igorance of what the word 'troll' means in modern culture, and specifically in regards to this article.If someone came up to you in a game, called you a piece of shit, a coward, an asshole, a pigfucker, then killed you - would you call that 'not trolling'?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600619</id>
	<title>Full Court Press</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246879260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some of the tactics used by this researcher remind me of the full court press in basketball. The rules of basketball allow a full court press, yet to do so never crosses the mind of most players. Playing one side of the court at a time is convention. The full court press is extremely effective, yet if you use it, the other team will no doubt call your win "cheap".</p><p>Still, when you are the underdog, and must win at all costs, the press is your only option. I sympathize with those who use it (and recognize that it isn't easy to pull off either). </p><p>If people complain that a tactic is cheap, it's really not the fault of the player, but the fault of the game. Past slashdot postings are full of examples where players exploited loopholes in city of heroes (remember the article about player-created missions?). With this in mind, I think it's obvious that City of Heroes was poorly designed to begin with. Game designers should never assume players will be on their best behavior.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of the tactics used by this researcher remind me of the full court press in basketball .
The rules of basketball allow a full court press , yet to do so never crosses the mind of most players .
Playing one side of the court at a time is convention .
The full court press is extremely effective , yet if you use it , the other team will no doubt call your win " cheap " .Still , when you are the underdog , and must win at all costs , the press is your only option .
I sympathize with those who use it ( and recognize that it is n't easy to pull off either ) .
If people complain that a tactic is cheap , it 's really not the fault of the player , but the fault of the game .
Past slashdot postings are full of examples where players exploited loopholes in city of heroes ( remember the article about player-created missions ? ) .
With this in mind , I think it 's obvious that City of Heroes was poorly designed to begin with .
Game designers should never assume players will be on their best behavior .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of the tactics used by this researcher remind me of the full court press in basketball.
The rules of basketball allow a full court press, yet to do so never crosses the mind of most players.
Playing one side of the court at a time is convention.
The full court press is extremely effective, yet if you use it, the other team will no doubt call your win "cheap".Still, when you are the underdog, and must win at all costs, the press is your only option.
I sympathize with those who use it (and recognize that it isn't easy to pull off either).
If people complain that a tactic is cheap, it's really not the fault of the player, but the fault of the game.
Past slashdot postings are full of examples where players exploited loopholes in city of heroes (remember the article about player-created missions?).
With this in mind, I think it's obvious that City of Heroes was poorly designed to begin with.
Game designers should never assume players will be on their best behavior.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28607571</id>
	<title>Re:Carebears</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246979340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Measured in the time it takes to warm up a railgun?<br>Sounds awkward.<br>"In Eve, we get rid of this sort of nonsense in 15,342.6 RGW"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Measured in the time it takes to warm up a railgun ? Sounds awkward .
" In Eve , we get rid of this sort of nonsense in 15,342.6 RGW "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Measured in the time it takes to warm up a railgun?Sounds awkward.
"In Eve, we get rid of this sort of nonsense in 15,342.6 RGW"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600571</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28605221</id>
	<title>Re:What an ass...</title>
	<author>TheTurtlesMoves</author>
	<datestamp>1246960560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>He would then troll the general chat with stuff like (direct quote here):

    </p><p><div class="quote"><p>"Yay, heroes. Go good team. Vills lose again,"</p></div><p>I couldn't make this shit up if I were trying.</p></div><p>Apparently you have a poor imagination and don't get out much.
<br> <br>
My wife uses stronger taunts in online games. Hell even the bots in Quake use stronger taunts.... I bet even the local sports team cheer leaders use stronger taunts... My grandma uses stronger taunts on Saturday bingo....</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He would then troll the general chat with stuff like ( direct quote here ) : " Yay , heroes .
Go good team .
Vills lose again , " I could n't make this shit up if I were trying.Apparently you have a poor imagination and do n't get out much .
My wife uses stronger taunts in online games .
Hell even the bots in Quake use stronger taunts.... I bet even the local sports team cheer leaders use stronger taunts... My grandma uses stronger taunts on Saturday bingo... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He would then troll the general chat with stuff like (direct quote here):

    "Yay, heroes.
Go good team.
Vills lose again,"I couldn't make this shit up if I were trying.Apparently you have a poor imagination and don't get out much.
My wife uses stronger taunts in online games.
Hell even the bots in Quake use stronger taunts.... I bet even the local sports team cheer leaders use stronger taunts... My grandma uses stronger taunts on Saturday bingo....
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600807</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600735</id>
	<title>Re:Carebears</title>
	<author>alvinrod</author>
	<datestamp>1246879800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think that if this were done in EVE he would need a significantly more powerful ship in order to destroy his opposition. The people he targeted were capable of fighting back and the article mentions occasionally people would attempt to group up to stop him, but that he would always manage to defeat anyone who fought back. Either he was playing with some incredibly broken character type that is great for PvP or he only picked on people considerably weaker than himself. Either way he had the ability to essentially do as he pleased within the confines of the game as no one was able to stop him.
<br> <br>
I find it difficult to believe that no one could defeat him, even if people would gang up against him, but I have not played the game so I have no idea how easy or difficult this would be to accomplish. Sure everyone hated him, but they couldn't stop him so they'll have to put up with it. A little bit like the real world really.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that if this were done in EVE he would need a significantly more powerful ship in order to destroy his opposition .
The people he targeted were capable of fighting back and the article mentions occasionally people would attempt to group up to stop him , but that he would always manage to defeat anyone who fought back .
Either he was playing with some incredibly broken character type that is great for PvP or he only picked on people considerably weaker than himself .
Either way he had the ability to essentially do as he pleased within the confines of the game as no one was able to stop him .
I find it difficult to believe that no one could defeat him , even if people would gang up against him , but I have not played the game so I have no idea how easy or difficult this would be to accomplish .
Sure everyone hated him , but they could n't stop him so they 'll have to put up with it .
A little bit like the real world really .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that if this were done in EVE he would need a significantly more powerful ship in order to destroy his opposition.
The people he targeted were capable of fighting back and the article mentions occasionally people would attempt to group up to stop him, but that he would always manage to defeat anyone who fought back.
Either he was playing with some incredibly broken character type that is great for PvP or he only picked on people considerably weaker than himself.
Either way he had the ability to essentially do as he pleased within the confines of the game as no one was able to stop him.
I find it difficult to believe that no one could defeat him, even if people would gang up against him, but I have not played the game so I have no idea how easy or difficult this would be to accomplish.
Sure everyone hated him, but they couldn't stop him so they'll have to put up with it.
A little bit like the real world really.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28600571</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28608977</id>
	<title>Re:Is the story the whole story?</title>
	<author>cmdr\_klarg</author>
	<datestamp>1246984740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do play the game, and find it very believable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do play the game , and find it very believable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do play the game, and find it very believable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2146207.28602271</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_06_2146207_27</id>
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