<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_06_0353217</id>
	<title>Goldman Sachs Trading Source Code In the Wild?</title>
	<author>ScuttleMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1246883460000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Hangtime writes <i>"The world's most valuable source code could be in the wild. According to a report by Reuters, a Russian immigrant and former Goldman Sachs developer named Sergey Aleynikov was picked up at Newark Airport on July 4th by the FBI on charges of industrial espionage. According to the complaint, Sergey, prior to his early June exit from Goldman, copied, encrypted and uploaded source code inferred to be the <a href="http://blogs.reuters.com/commentaries/2009/07/05/a-goldman-trading-scandal/">code used by Goldman Sachs</a> to process in real-time (micro-seconds) trades between multiple equity and commodity platforms. While trying to cover his tracks, the system backed up a series of bash commands so he was unable to erase his history, which would later give him away to Goldman and the authorities. So the question is: <a href="http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/07/is-case-of-quant-trading-industrial.html">where are the 32MB of encrypted files</a> that Sergey uploaded to a German server?</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hangtime writes " The world 's most valuable source code could be in the wild .
According to a report by Reuters , a Russian immigrant and former Goldman Sachs developer named Sergey Aleynikov was picked up at Newark Airport on July 4th by the FBI on charges of industrial espionage .
According to the complaint , Sergey , prior to his early June exit from Goldman , copied , encrypted and uploaded source code inferred to be the code used by Goldman Sachs to process in real-time ( micro-seconds ) trades between multiple equity and commodity platforms .
While trying to cover his tracks , the system backed up a series of bash commands so he was unable to erase his history , which would later give him away to Goldman and the authorities .
So the question is : where are the 32MB of encrypted files that Sergey uploaded to a German server ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hangtime writes "The world's most valuable source code could be in the wild.
According to a report by Reuters, a Russian immigrant and former Goldman Sachs developer named Sergey Aleynikov was picked up at Newark Airport on July 4th by the FBI on charges of industrial espionage.
According to the complaint, Sergey, prior to his early June exit from Goldman, copied, encrypted and uploaded source code inferred to be the code used by Goldman Sachs to process in real-time (micro-seconds) trades between multiple equity and commodity platforms.
While trying to cover his tracks, the system backed up a series of bash commands so he was unable to erase his history, which would later give him away to Goldman and the authorities.
So the question is: where are the 32MB of encrypted files that Sergey uploaded to a German server?</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28597561</id>
	<title>Germany?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246908540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I bet they're in Germany.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I bet they 're in Germany .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bet they're in Germany.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28597315</id>
	<title>He of little knowledge!!!!</title>
	<author>sgt\_doom</author>
	<datestamp>1246907760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>What if having the code allowed you to analyse it for ways to game the system?</i> </p><p>Dood, don't you get it??  The system has been gamed for some time and is ever increasing in being gamed!  Goldman Sachs (and other members of the bankster cartel) does mass speculation on the oil/energy futures market through the exchange they founded with Morgan Stanley and the oil cartel: <b>ICE</b> (InterContinental Exchange), as well as the precious metals market (along with JPMorgan Chase &amp; Morgan Stanley, et al.), soft commodities market and on and on.....</p><p>With the new so-called "cap-and-trade" being <b>gamed</b> for expanding the derivatives and securitication market for futures in carbon offsets and carbon dioxide emissions allowances, the GS code is the <b>final alchemy</b>.  (And the possibilities for entirely new forms of speculation between emissions/carbon offsets AND oil/energy futures is simply mind boggling!)</p><p>As far as gaming, one need only look at the outline for this anti-global warming legislation (cap-and-trade) and how it's being handled: via ICE US Trust (which is owned by ICE and Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase along with other banksters) and the Chicago Climate Exchange (which is owned by ICE) and utilizing the DTCC (majority owned by Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley &amp; JPMorgan Chase). And those derivatives and swaps will be "priced" by ICE Trust and Markit Group (which was originally financed by Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup and BofA).  And to review, ICE is owned by Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and the oil cartel.</p><p>Beginning to see the big picture??????</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if having the code allowed you to analyse it for ways to game the system ?
Dood , do n't you get it ? ?
The system has been gamed for some time and is ever increasing in being gamed !
Goldman Sachs ( and other members of the bankster cartel ) does mass speculation on the oil/energy futures market through the exchange they founded with Morgan Stanley and the oil cartel : ICE ( InterContinental Exchange ) , as well as the precious metals market ( along with JPMorgan Chase &amp; Morgan Stanley , et al .
) , soft commodities market and on and on.....With the new so-called " cap-and-trade " being gamed for expanding the derivatives and securitication market for futures in carbon offsets and carbon dioxide emissions allowances , the GS code is the final alchemy .
( And the possibilities for entirely new forms of speculation between emissions/carbon offsets AND oil/energy futures is simply mind boggling !
) As far as gaming , one need only look at the outline for this anti-global warming legislation ( cap-and-trade ) and how it 's being handled : via ICE US Trust ( which is owned by ICE and Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase along with other banksters ) and the Chicago Climate Exchange ( which is owned by ICE ) and utilizing the DTCC ( majority owned by Goldman Sachs , Morgan Stanley &amp; JPMorgan Chase ) .
And those derivatives and swaps will be " priced " by ICE Trust and Markit Group ( which was originally financed by Goldman Sachs , JPMorgan Chase , Citigroup and BofA ) .
And to review , ICE is owned by Goldman Sachs , Morgan Stanley and the oil cartel.Beginning to see the big picture ? ? ? ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if having the code allowed you to analyse it for ways to game the system?
Dood, don't you get it??
The system has been gamed for some time and is ever increasing in being gamed!
Goldman Sachs (and other members of the bankster cartel) does mass speculation on the oil/energy futures market through the exchange they founded with Morgan Stanley and the oil cartel: ICE (InterContinental Exchange), as well as the precious metals market (along with JPMorgan Chase &amp; Morgan Stanley, et al.
), soft commodities market and on and on.....With the new so-called "cap-and-trade" being gamed for expanding the derivatives and securitication market for futures in carbon offsets and carbon dioxide emissions allowances, the GS code is the final alchemy.
(And the possibilities for entirely new forms of speculation between emissions/carbon offsets AND oil/energy futures is simply mind boggling!
)As far as gaming, one need only look at the outline for this anti-global warming legislation (cap-and-trade) and how it's being handled: via ICE US Trust (which is owned by ICE and Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase along with other banksters) and the Chicago Climate Exchange (which is owned by ICE) and utilizing the DTCC (majority owned by Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley &amp; JPMorgan Chase).
And those derivatives and swaps will be "priced" by ICE Trust and Markit Group (which was originally financed by Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup and BofA).
And to review, ICE is owned by Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and the oil cartel.Beginning to see the big picture?????
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594317</id>
	<title>Re:What's the exit strategy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246894320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is what Pepsi would do: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06188/704045-28.stm</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is what Pepsi would do : http : //www.post-gazette.com/pg/06188/704045-28.stm</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is what Pepsi would do: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06188/704045-28.stm</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593495</id>
	<title>Re:huh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246889460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Eric felt his scrotum contract in its latest desperate attempt to keep his testicles warm. This hospital, wherever it was, was damned drafty.</p><p>It didn't help that the nurses on his floor, who had been treating Eric like a complete bitch, liked to keep the air conditioning cranked up. Or was it just his room? He noticed they pulled their cardigans and sweaters around them only when they came to see him.</p><p>"Nurse! Nurse!" Eric shouted. "Excuse me, nurse?!"</p><p>Eric heard a chair creak, followed by footsteps coming down the hall. They were quick around here, one of the only good things Eric had yet noticed. Perhaps it was because of his celebrity status.</p><p>"Yes?" the nurse said, crossing her goose-pimpled arms.</p><p>"Nurse, it's damn cold in here," Eric said. "And I think my pain medication is wearing off. Can I have some more pills?"</p><p>Her beady eyes, set atop wrinkled, puffy cheeks, lasered him in his bed. This was the sixth time Eric had shouted for her since her shift began. She didn't know him well but she was definitely starting to hate him.</p><p>"Oh! And my urinal needs emptied!" Eric added.</p><p>The nurse pursed her lips and folded her arms without breaking eye contact, "get fucked" in body language.</p><p>Eric smiled a crooked, leering grin at her and winked in a bid to charm her into emptying his piss. The nurse wondered if he was about to have another seizure.</p><p>She picked up Eric's chart, flipped through it, and replaced it.</p><p>"Mr. Raymond," the nurse said, "you're not due for more pain medication for two more hours."</p><p>Eric's mustache, orange and drooping, twitched.</p><p>"Do you need your bandages looked at?"</p><p>Eric shifted in his bed, stiff and uncomfortable. He slowly, awkwardly, stretched his hospital gown down over his knees.</p><p>"Nooo, no, no I don't," Eric said. "My bandages are just fine."</p><p>"Fine then," the nurse said. "I'll get your urinal. Do you need anything else?"</p><p>Eric watched as the nurse lifted his urinal carefully off of his lunch tray. It was completely full1,000 cubic centimeters, one full quart of piss and mounding at the top.</p><p>The nurse stifled a gag as she slowly made her way into the restroom.</p><p>"This damn IV has me swimming!" Eric called after her with a quick laugh.</p><p>He heard her pouring his urine into the toilet and felt the urge to go again. It had been dark brown, viscous, and smelled to high heaven like sick wet bad meat. He really hoped whatever they had him on was working.</p><p>She returned from the restroom and replaced Eric's urinal.</p><p>"I'll be back when it's time for your medication," she said. "Dinner is in an hour."</p><p>With that she left until, she knew too well, the next time Eric grew bored or irritated.</p><p>Feeling as anxious as ever, Eric reached for <a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/hardware.html" title="catb.org" rel="nofollow">billywig</a> [catb.org], his <a href="http://support.apple.com/kb/SP126" title="apple.com" rel="nofollow">blueberry iBook</a> [apple.com], which had finally charged. He hit the start button and watched <a href="http://us.fixstars.com/products/ydl/" title="fixstars.com" rel="nofollow">Yellow Dog Linux</a> [fixstars.com] slowly crawl off of the hard drive into RAM.</p><p>Thank god this hospital had wifi. Thank god he had an Airport card in his iBook.</p><p> <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=brown+piss" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?q=brown+piss</a> [google.com] </p><p>"Nope."</p><p> <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=my+piss+is+brown" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?q=my+piss+is+brown</a> [google.com] </p><p>"Hmm Nope."</p><p> <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=my+piss+is+brown+std" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?q=my+piss+is+brown+std</a> [google.com] </p><p>"Nope."</p><p> <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=my+piss+is+brown+and+smells+like+rotting+meat+std" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?q=my+piss+is+brown+and+smells+like+rotting+meat+std</a> [google.com] </p><p>Eric was having no luck. The more he optimized his Google searches, he noted with alarm, the less relevant his search hits became.</p><blockquote><div><p>foul smelling like decay meat and at times like grated yam. this odor<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and fifth day i see dirth brown dischargeAbnormal discharge from the nipple<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... the air asking what that rotten meat smell was...and the consequent search<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... So, my UA (urine analysis) came back abnormal </p></div> </blockquote><p>"Jesus Christ!" Eric muttered to himself as he squinted at his iBook's 12" screen. "I don't think I have anything coming out of my nipples!"</p><p>Making sure his iBook was steady, he gingerly squeezed his left pectoral.</p><p>"Nope."</p><p>Eric command-tabbed back to <a href="file:ApplicationsTextEditapp" title="applicationstexteditapp" rel="nofollow">TextEdit</a> [applicationstexteditapp], where he was typing "RFI on brown piss that smells like rotting meat" to post to <a href="http://esr.ibiblio.org/" title="ibiblio.org" rel="nofollow">his blog</a> [ibiblio.org], when there was a knock at the door.</p><p>"Mr. Raymond?"</p><p>It was the nurse.</p><p>"There's someone here to see you."</p><p>Finally, company! A hacker mind like Eric's was not used to boredom. He needed plenty of <a href="http://www.trollaxor.com/2009/06/eric-emad-iranian-hackers-cyber-buddies.html" title="trollaxor.com" rel="nofollow">Iranian hackers</a> [trollaxor.com] to chat with, a cave full of LARP buddies, or, optimally, a <a href="http://www.trollaxor.com/2001/12/linux-party.html" title="trollaxor.com" rel="nofollow">Linux party</a> [trollaxor.com]. <i>Not</i> the sanitation of lonely, well-lit hospital.</p><p>A second later the door opened again and in walked not Eric's LARP troop or Linux party, but something far less arousing: a New Jersey state police officer.</p><p>"Eric Raymond?" the officer asked. He was 6'2" and built like the Mack trucks he probably ticketed on a daily basis.</p><p>"Yes, sir, that's me, officer," Eric stammered. He hated being dominated.</p><p>"You're under arrest for lewd conduct, public indecency, and conspiracy to solicit," the officer said. The tone in his voice told Eric not to interrupt. "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say"</p><p>Eric's mind wandered. He had to call his wife. She was his attorney and had dealt with this sort of thing before. He had to keep this quiet.</p><p>Eric decided then and there to be as cooperative as possible.</p><p>"Do you understand these rights, Mr. Raymond?"</p><p>"Yeah, sure," Eric said. "But I'd like to share info about the other party involved in this incident."</p><p>"Go ahead?" the officer said, not expecting Eric's offer.</p><p>"The other party," Eric said, "is a man named Emad, an Iranian hacker, quite possible in this country illegally. His email address is <a href="mailto:emad.opensores@gmail.com" title="mailto" rel="nofollow">emad.opensores@gmail.com</a> [mailto] and his AIM handle is <a href="aim:goimscreennameiran2hax0rc0ck" title="aim" rel="nofollow">iran2hax0rc0ck</a> [aim]."</p><p>"Any idea who the other parties involved were?" the trooper asked, taking his notepad out.</p><p>"Other parties? There were no other parties. Just Emad and I."</p><p>"Mr Raymond," the trooper said, "you were the victim of sexual assault last night."</p><p>Eric's left eye twitched. It was usually him, with his Glock and J&#x00E4;germeister, in charge of the proceedings. Not the other way around. He felt so powerless.</p><p>"You'll be arraigned upon your release from the hospital. Do you understand that?"</p><p>"Sure," Eric said, "but why do you think there were other parties? It was just Emad and I the entire time."</p><p>"Mr. Raymond," the trooper said while replacing his notebook, "our crime lab extracted the DNA of two other people from your wounds."</p><p>Eric sweated, cold and salty, and his world spun. Who else had been there?</p><p>"Also," the trooper said, producing a plastic bag, "do you know what this is?"</p><p>He handed the object to Eric, who turned it back and forth. It reflected the room's lights weakly through the baggie.</p><p>"It's Ubuntu," Eric said softly.</p><p>"Ubuntu? What's that?" the trooper said.</p><p>"It's a Linux distribution," Eric said unhelpfully. "Where did you get it?"</p><p>Eric noticed the version number on the CD face as he passed it back to the trooper. 9.04<i>Karmic Koala</i>.</p><p>The trooper looked away before he spoke.</p><p>"The doctors removed it from deep inside your ass."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Eric felt his scrotum contract in its latest desperate attempt to keep his testicles warm .
This hospital , wherever it was , was damned drafty.It did n't help that the nurses on his floor , who had been treating Eric like a complete bitch , liked to keep the air conditioning cranked up .
Or was it just his room ?
He noticed they pulled their cardigans and sweaters around them only when they came to see him. " Nurse !
Nurse ! " Eric shouted .
" Excuse me , nurse ? !
" Eric heard a chair creak , followed by footsteps coming down the hall .
They were quick around here , one of the only good things Eric had yet noticed .
Perhaps it was because of his celebrity status. " Yes ?
" the nurse said , crossing her goose-pimpled arms .
" Nurse , it 's damn cold in here , " Eric said .
" And I think my pain medication is wearing off .
Can I have some more pills ?
" Her beady eyes , set atop wrinkled , puffy cheeks , lasered him in his bed .
This was the sixth time Eric had shouted for her since her shift began .
She did n't know him well but she was definitely starting to hate him. " Oh !
And my urinal needs emptied !
" Eric added.The nurse pursed her lips and folded her arms without breaking eye contact , " get fucked " in body language.Eric smiled a crooked , leering grin at her and winked in a bid to charm her into emptying his piss .
The nurse wondered if he was about to have another seizure.She picked up Eric 's chart , flipped through it , and replaced it. " Mr .
Raymond , " the nurse said , " you 're not due for more pain medication for two more hours .
" Eric 's mustache , orange and drooping , twitched .
" Do you need your bandages looked at ?
" Eric shifted in his bed , stiff and uncomfortable .
He slowly , awkwardly , stretched his hospital gown down over his knees .
" Nooo , no , no I do n't , " Eric said .
" My bandages are just fine .
" " Fine then , " the nurse said .
" I 'll get your urinal .
Do you need anything else ?
" Eric watched as the nurse lifted his urinal carefully off of his lunch tray .
It was completely full1,000 cubic centimeters , one full quart of piss and mounding at the top.The nurse stifled a gag as she slowly made her way into the restroom .
" This damn IV has me swimming !
" Eric called after her with a quick laugh.He heard her pouring his urine into the toilet and felt the urge to go again .
It had been dark brown , viscous , and smelled to high heaven like sick wet bad meat .
He really hoped whatever they had him on was working.She returned from the restroom and replaced Eric 's urinal .
" I 'll be back when it 's time for your medication , " she said .
" Dinner is in an hour .
" With that she left until , she knew too well , the next time Eric grew bored or irritated.Feeling as anxious as ever , Eric reached for billywig [ catb.org ] , his blueberry iBook [ apple.com ] , which had finally charged .
He hit the start button and watched Yellow Dog Linux [ fixstars.com ] slowly crawl off of the hard drive into RAM.Thank god this hospital had wifi .
Thank god he had an Airport card in his iBook .
http : //www.google.com/search ? q = brown + piss [ google.com ] " Nope .
" http : //www.google.com/search ? q = my + piss + is + brown [ google.com ] " Hmm Nope .
" http : //www.google.com/search ? q = my + piss + is + brown + std [ google.com ] " Nope .
" http : //www.google.com/search ? q = my + piss + is + brown + and + smells + like + rotting + meat + std [ google.com ] Eric was having no luck .
The more he optimized his Google searches , he noted with alarm , the less relevant his search hits became.foul smelling like decay meat and at times like grated yam .
this odor ... and fifth day i see dirth brown dischargeAbnormal discharge from the nipple .... the air asking what that rotten meat smell was...and the consequent search ... So , my UA ( urine analysis ) came back abnormal " Jesus Christ !
" Eric muttered to himself as he squinted at his iBook 's 12 " screen .
" I do n't think I have anything coming out of my nipples !
" Making sure his iBook was steady , he gingerly squeezed his left pectoral. " Nope .
" Eric command-tabbed back to TextEdit [ applicationstexteditapp ] , where he was typing " RFI on brown piss that smells like rotting meat " to post to his blog [ ibiblio.org ] , when there was a knock at the door. " Mr .
Raymond ? " It was the nurse .
" There 's someone here to see you .
" Finally , company !
A hacker mind like Eric 's was not used to boredom .
He needed plenty of Iranian hackers [ trollaxor.com ] to chat with , a cave full of LARP buddies , or , optimally , a Linux party [ trollaxor.com ] .
Not the sanitation of lonely , well-lit hospital.A second later the door opened again and in walked not Eric 's LARP troop or Linux party , but something far less arousing : a New Jersey state police officer .
" Eric Raymond ?
" the officer asked .
He was 6'2 " and built like the Mack trucks he probably ticketed on a daily basis .
" Yes , sir , that 's me , officer , " Eric stammered .
He hated being dominated .
" You 're under arrest for lewd conduct , public indecency , and conspiracy to solicit , " the officer said .
The tone in his voice told Eric not to interrupt .
" You have the right to remain silent .
Anything you say " Eric 's mind wandered .
He had to call his wife .
She was his attorney and had dealt with this sort of thing before .
He had to keep this quiet.Eric decided then and there to be as cooperative as possible .
" Do you understand these rights , Mr .
Raymond ? " " Yeah , sure , " Eric said .
" But I 'd like to share info about the other party involved in this incident .
" " Go ahead ?
" the officer said , not expecting Eric 's offer .
" The other party , " Eric said , " is a man named Emad , an Iranian hacker , quite possible in this country illegally .
His email address is emad.opensores @ gmail.com [ mailto ] and his AIM handle is iran2hax0rc0ck [ aim ] .
" " Any idea who the other parties involved were ?
" the trooper asked , taking his notepad out .
" Other parties ?
There were no other parties .
Just Emad and I .
" " Mr Raymond , " the trooper said , " you were the victim of sexual assault last night .
" Eric 's left eye twitched .
It was usually him , with his Glock and J   germeister , in charge of the proceedings .
Not the other way around .
He felt so powerless .
" You 'll be arraigned upon your release from the hospital .
Do you understand that ?
" " Sure , " Eric said , " but why do you think there were other parties ?
It was just Emad and I the entire time. " " Mr .
Raymond , " the trooper said while replacing his notebook , " our crime lab extracted the DNA of two other people from your wounds .
" Eric sweated , cold and salty , and his world spun .
Who else had been there ?
" Also , " the trooper said , producing a plastic bag , " do you know what this is ?
" He handed the object to Eric , who turned it back and forth .
It reflected the room 's lights weakly through the baggie .
" It 's Ubuntu , " Eric said softly. " Ubuntu ?
What 's that ?
" the trooper said .
" It 's a Linux distribution , " Eric said unhelpfully .
" Where did you get it ?
" Eric noticed the version number on the CD face as he passed it back to the trooper .
9.04Karmic Koala.The trooper looked away before he spoke .
" The doctors removed it from deep inside your ass .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Eric felt his scrotum contract in its latest desperate attempt to keep his testicles warm.
This hospital, wherever it was, was damned drafty.It didn't help that the nurses on his floor, who had been treating Eric like a complete bitch, liked to keep the air conditioning cranked up.
Or was it just his room?
He noticed they pulled their cardigans and sweaters around them only when they came to see him."Nurse!
Nurse!" Eric shouted.
"Excuse me, nurse?!
"Eric heard a chair creak, followed by footsteps coming down the hall.
They were quick around here, one of the only good things Eric had yet noticed.
Perhaps it was because of his celebrity status."Yes?
" the nurse said, crossing her goose-pimpled arms.
"Nurse, it's damn cold in here," Eric said.
"And I think my pain medication is wearing off.
Can I have some more pills?
"Her beady eyes, set atop wrinkled, puffy cheeks, lasered him in his bed.
This was the sixth time Eric had shouted for her since her shift began.
She didn't know him well but she was definitely starting to hate him."Oh!
And my urinal needs emptied!
" Eric added.The nurse pursed her lips and folded her arms without breaking eye contact, "get fucked" in body language.Eric smiled a crooked, leering grin at her and winked in a bid to charm her into emptying his piss.
The nurse wondered if he was about to have another seizure.She picked up Eric's chart, flipped through it, and replaced it."Mr.
Raymond," the nurse said, "you're not due for more pain medication for two more hours.
"Eric's mustache, orange and drooping, twitched.
"Do you need your bandages looked at?
"Eric shifted in his bed, stiff and uncomfortable.
He slowly, awkwardly, stretched his hospital gown down over his knees.
"Nooo, no, no I don't," Eric said.
"My bandages are just fine.
""Fine then," the nurse said.
"I'll get your urinal.
Do you need anything else?
"Eric watched as the nurse lifted his urinal carefully off of his lunch tray.
It was completely full1,000 cubic centimeters, one full quart of piss and mounding at the top.The nurse stifled a gag as she slowly made her way into the restroom.
"This damn IV has me swimming!
" Eric called after her with a quick laugh.He heard her pouring his urine into the toilet and felt the urge to go again.
It had been dark brown, viscous, and smelled to high heaven like sick wet bad meat.
He really hoped whatever they had him on was working.She returned from the restroom and replaced Eric's urinal.
"I'll be back when it's time for your medication," she said.
"Dinner is in an hour.
"With that she left until, she knew too well, the next time Eric grew bored or irritated.Feeling as anxious as ever, Eric reached for billywig [catb.org], his blueberry iBook [apple.com], which had finally charged.
He hit the start button and watched Yellow Dog Linux [fixstars.com] slowly crawl off of the hard drive into RAM.Thank god this hospital had wifi.
Thank god he had an Airport card in his iBook.
http://www.google.com/search?q=brown+piss [google.com] "Nope.
" http://www.google.com/search?q=my+piss+is+brown [google.com] "Hmm Nope.
" http://www.google.com/search?q=my+piss+is+brown+std [google.com] "Nope.
" http://www.google.com/search?q=my+piss+is+brown+and+smells+like+rotting+meat+std [google.com] Eric was having no luck.
The more he optimized his Google searches, he noted with alarm, the less relevant his search hits became.foul smelling like decay meat and at times like grated yam.
this odor ... and fifth day i see dirth brown dischargeAbnormal discharge from the nipple .... the air asking what that rotten meat smell was...and the consequent search ... So, my UA (urine analysis) came back abnormal  "Jesus Christ!
" Eric muttered to himself as he squinted at his iBook's 12" screen.
"I don't think I have anything coming out of my nipples!
"Making sure his iBook was steady, he gingerly squeezed his left pectoral."Nope.
"Eric command-tabbed back to TextEdit [applicationstexteditapp], where he was typing "RFI on brown piss that smells like rotting meat" to post to his blog [ibiblio.org], when there was a knock at the door."Mr.
Raymond?"It was the nurse.
"There's someone here to see you.
"Finally, company!
A hacker mind like Eric's was not used to boredom.
He needed plenty of Iranian hackers [trollaxor.com] to chat with, a cave full of LARP buddies, or, optimally, a Linux party [trollaxor.com].
Not the sanitation of lonely, well-lit hospital.A second later the door opened again and in walked not Eric's LARP troop or Linux party, but something far less arousing: a New Jersey state police officer.
"Eric Raymond?
" the officer asked.
He was 6'2" and built like the Mack trucks he probably ticketed on a daily basis.
"Yes, sir, that's me, officer," Eric stammered.
He hated being dominated.
"You're under arrest for lewd conduct, public indecency, and conspiracy to solicit," the officer said.
The tone in his voice told Eric not to interrupt.
"You have the right to remain silent.
Anything you say"Eric's mind wandered.
He had to call his wife.
She was his attorney and had dealt with this sort of thing before.
He had to keep this quiet.Eric decided then and there to be as cooperative as possible.
"Do you understand these rights, Mr.
Raymond?""Yeah, sure," Eric said.
"But I'd like to share info about the other party involved in this incident.
""Go ahead?
" the officer said, not expecting Eric's offer.
"The other party," Eric said, "is a man named Emad, an Iranian hacker, quite possible in this country illegally.
His email address is emad.opensores@gmail.com [mailto] and his AIM handle is iran2hax0rc0ck [aim].
""Any idea who the other parties involved were?
" the trooper asked, taking his notepad out.
"Other parties?
There were no other parties.
Just Emad and I.
""Mr Raymond," the trooper said, "you were the victim of sexual assault last night.
"Eric's left eye twitched.
It was usually him, with his Glock and Jägermeister, in charge of the proceedings.
Not the other way around.
He felt so powerless.
"You'll be arraigned upon your release from the hospital.
Do you understand that?
""Sure," Eric said, "but why do you think there were other parties?
It was just Emad and I the entire time.""Mr.
Raymond," the trooper said while replacing his notebook, "our crime lab extracted the DNA of two other people from your wounds.
"Eric sweated, cold and salty, and his world spun.
Who else had been there?
"Also," the trooper said, producing a plastic bag, "do you know what this is?
"He handed the object to Eric, who turned it back and forth.
It reflected the room's lights weakly through the baggie.
"It's Ubuntu," Eric said softly."Ubuntu?
What's that?
" the trooper said.
"It's a Linux distribution," Eric said unhelpfully.
"Where did you get it?
"Eric noticed the version number on the CD face as he passed it back to the trooper.
9.04Karmic Koala.The trooper looked away before he spoke.
"The doctors removed it from deep inside your ass.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593153</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595647</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246901040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>- i work on a quant trading desk very similar to the one at goldman.  my guess is that the guy took the code that manages market data and *executes* high-speed trading, not the code that decides what to buy or sell. generally speaking quant traders don't tell the IT guy who writes and maintains the trading infrastructure the brains behind the code.</p><p>to make it more accessible for non-finance guys it's like trying to steal a super-complex and secret encryption software but only taking the (still important) code that let's you read and write the results of the encryption faster but not having access to the encryption algorithm itself.</p><p>on top of this, there exists certain strategies that having others know your strategy let's you make MORE money in the short to medium term.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>- i work on a quant trading desk very similar to the one at goldman .
my guess is that the guy took the code that manages market data and * executes * high-speed trading , not the code that decides what to buy or sell .
generally speaking quant traders do n't tell the IT guy who writes and maintains the trading infrastructure the brains behind the code.to make it more accessible for non-finance guys it 's like trying to steal a super-complex and secret encryption software but only taking the ( still important ) code that let 's you read and write the results of the encryption faster but not having access to the encryption algorithm itself.on top of this , there exists certain strategies that having others know your strategy let 's you make MORE money in the short to medium term .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>- i work on a quant trading desk very similar to the one at goldman.
my guess is that the guy took the code that manages market data and *executes* high-speed trading, not the code that decides what to buy or sell.
generally speaking quant traders don't tell the IT guy who writes and maintains the trading infrastructure the brains behind the code.to make it more accessible for non-finance guys it's like trying to steal a super-complex and secret encryption software but only taking the (still important) code that let's you read and write the results of the encryption faster but not having access to the encryption algorithm itself.on top of this, there exists certain strategies that having others know your strategy let's you make MORE money in the short to medium term.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28613205</id>
	<title>Rumored: NYSE to keep program trading private</title>
	<author>whovian</author>
	<datestamp>1246958100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The New York Stock Exchange quietly announced last week that it would end its practice of requiring companies to report all their program trading -- a move that helps shield large investment banks, particularly Goldman Sachs, from public scrutiny.</p><p>The new rule means the public will no longer be able to tell if large investment banks are manipulating the stock market for their own gain, says Matt Taibbi, the journalist whose Rolling Stone article on Goldman Sachs&#226;(TM) role in asset bubbles over the past century has rocked the financial world.</p><p>According to previous NYSE rules, any company that carried out program trading -- essentially, large computer-automated trades worth more than $1 million -- had to report the trades to the NYSE, which then made the information publicly available.</p><p>But, under new regulations (PDF) published last week, that requirement has been removed.</p><p>"The NYSE announced that it will no longer be releasing its weekly program trading data," Taibbi wrote in a blog posting. "This is quiet obviously a move designed to make it even more impossible to track what&#226;(TM)s going on in the NYSE and shield, in particular, Goldman Sachs."</p><p>Taibbi argues that the move is designed to protect investment banks from bloggers who are exposing the companies&#226;(TM) stock market manipulations. Goldman Sachs is singled out because the investment bank&#226;(TM)s share of principal NYSE trading has gone from 27 percent at the end of 2008 to fully 50 percent of trades in recent months.</p><p>Blogs such as Zero Hedge have been using NYSE data to argue that Goldman Sachs now has an almost unfettered ability to control stock prices.</p><p>Source: <a href="http://www.alternet.org/workplace/141106/taibbi\%3A\_new\_secrecy\_rule\_lets\_goldman\_sachs\_control\_stock\_prices\_unmolested\_by\_public\_scrutiny" title="alternet.org" rel="nofollow">Alternet</a> [alternet.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The New York Stock Exchange quietly announced last week that it would end its practice of requiring companies to report all their program trading -- a move that helps shield large investment banks , particularly Goldman Sachs , from public scrutiny.The new rule means the public will no longer be able to tell if large investment banks are manipulating the stock market for their own gain , says Matt Taibbi , the journalist whose Rolling Stone article on Goldman Sachs   ( TM ) role in asset bubbles over the past century has rocked the financial world.According to previous NYSE rules , any company that carried out program trading -- essentially , large computer-automated trades worth more than $ 1 million -- had to report the trades to the NYSE , which then made the information publicly available.But , under new regulations ( PDF ) published last week , that requirement has been removed .
" The NYSE announced that it will no longer be releasing its weekly program trading data , " Taibbi wrote in a blog posting .
" This is quiet obviously a move designed to make it even more impossible to track what   ( TM ) s going on in the NYSE and shield , in particular , Goldman Sachs .
" Taibbi argues that the move is designed to protect investment banks from bloggers who are exposing the companies   ( TM ) stock market manipulations .
Goldman Sachs is singled out because the investment bank   ( TM ) s share of principal NYSE trading has gone from 27 percent at the end of 2008 to fully 50 percent of trades in recent months.Blogs such as Zero Hedge have been using NYSE data to argue that Goldman Sachs now has an almost unfettered ability to control stock prices.Source : Alternet [ alternet.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The New York Stock Exchange quietly announced last week that it would end its practice of requiring companies to report all their program trading -- a move that helps shield large investment banks, particularly Goldman Sachs, from public scrutiny.The new rule means the public will no longer be able to tell if large investment banks are manipulating the stock market for their own gain, says Matt Taibbi, the journalist whose Rolling Stone article on Goldman Sachsâ(TM) role in asset bubbles over the past century has rocked the financial world.According to previous NYSE rules, any company that carried out program trading -- essentially, large computer-automated trades worth more than $1 million -- had to report the trades to the NYSE, which then made the information publicly available.But, under new regulations (PDF) published last week, that requirement has been removed.
"The NYSE announced that it will no longer be releasing its weekly program trading data," Taibbi wrote in a blog posting.
"This is quiet obviously a move designed to make it even more impossible to track whatâ(TM)s going on in the NYSE and shield, in particular, Goldman Sachs.
"Taibbi argues that the move is designed to protect investment banks from bloggers who are exposing the companiesâ(TM) stock market manipulations.
Goldman Sachs is singled out because the investment bankâ(TM)s share of principal NYSE trading has gone from 27 percent at the end of 2008 to fully 50 percent of trades in recent months.Blogs such as Zero Hedge have been using NYSE data to argue that Goldman Sachs now has an almost unfettered ability to control stock prices.Source: Alternet [alternet.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594399</id>
	<title>Are you sure this wasn't intentionally done?</title>
	<author>gestalt\_n\_pepper</author>
	<datestamp>1246894860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If we leak the source code, maybe we can take their economy down too. Less competition. Heck, let's give it to the BRICs. We can have a level playing field of algorithmically generated idiocy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If we leak the source code , maybe we can take their economy down too .
Less competition .
Heck , let 's give it to the BRICs .
We can have a level playing field of algorithmically generated idiocy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we leak the source code, maybe we can take their economy down too.
Less competition.
Heck, let's give it to the BRICs.
We can have a level playing field of algorithmically generated idiocy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28598345</id>
	<title>Maybe not the install, but gen'd code ...</title>
	<author>cpu\_fusion</author>
	<datestamp>1246911960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's assume GS's trading system uses learning algorithms to generate new rules.  This is a very logical assumption unless you want developers tweaking the code year after year, day after day.</p><p>In that case, it's not the code that generates the rules, nor the data it uses to generate the rules, nor the engine that runs the rules and interfaces the markets that is valuable:  its the current state of the optimized rules themselves that has immediate exploitability by criminals.</p><p>If you know GS's system is going to react to market behavior that does X by doing Y, then you can exploit that to make money off it to GS's detriment.</p><p>And an interesting twist.  The accused referred to the code as "open source."  That might indicate that he thinks it isn't copyrighted.  If the rules [code] were generated by software itself, such as a learning system, there is a colorable argument that there isn't the necessary quantum of authorship for copyright under U.S. law.  Naturally this wouldn't encompass other claims, like those based in trade secrets, employment Ks, etc.</p><p>To recap, the state of rules generated by the learning system would be far more valuable [and dangerous in enemy hands] than the underlying engine and database of historical data.  In fact, those rules would be the crown jewels.</p><p>I'd add the above is 100\% pure speculation based on inferences and some expertise in the area.  (No inside knowledge of GS.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's assume GS 's trading system uses learning algorithms to generate new rules .
This is a very logical assumption unless you want developers tweaking the code year after year , day after day.In that case , it 's not the code that generates the rules , nor the data it uses to generate the rules , nor the engine that runs the rules and interfaces the markets that is valuable : its the current state of the optimized rules themselves that has immediate exploitability by criminals.If you know GS 's system is going to react to market behavior that does X by doing Y , then you can exploit that to make money off it to GS 's detriment.And an interesting twist .
The accused referred to the code as " open source .
" That might indicate that he thinks it is n't copyrighted .
If the rules [ code ] were generated by software itself , such as a learning system , there is a colorable argument that there is n't the necessary quantum of authorship for copyright under U.S. law. Naturally this would n't encompass other claims , like those based in trade secrets , employment Ks , etc.To recap , the state of rules generated by the learning system would be far more valuable [ and dangerous in enemy hands ] than the underlying engine and database of historical data .
In fact , those rules would be the crown jewels.I 'd add the above is 100 \ % pure speculation based on inferences and some expertise in the area .
( No inside knowledge of GS .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's assume GS's trading system uses learning algorithms to generate new rules.
This is a very logical assumption unless you want developers tweaking the code year after year, day after day.In that case, it's not the code that generates the rules, nor the data it uses to generate the rules, nor the engine that runs the rules and interfaces the markets that is valuable:  its the current state of the optimized rules themselves that has immediate exploitability by criminals.If you know GS's system is going to react to market behavior that does X by doing Y, then you can exploit that to make money off it to GS's detriment.And an interesting twist.
The accused referred to the code as "open source.
"  That might indicate that he thinks it isn't copyrighted.
If the rules [code] were generated by software itself, such as a learning system, there is a colorable argument that there isn't the necessary quantum of authorship for copyright under U.S. law.  Naturally this wouldn't encompass other claims, like those based in trade secrets, employment Ks, etc.To recap, the state of rules generated by the learning system would be far more valuable [and dangerous in enemy hands] than the underlying engine and database of historical data.
In fact, those rules would be the crown jewels.I'd add the above is 100\% pure speculation based on inferences and some expertise in the area.
(No inside knowledge of GS.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594857</id>
	<title>It appears outrageous to me.</title>
	<author>MarkvW</author>
	<datestamp>1246897380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is this software so valuable?  It is so valuable because of the complexity of the financial markets!</p><p>Why are the financial markets so complex?<br>Are they unnecessarily complex?<br>Does the complexity fairly serve US citizens?<br>Does the complexity fairly serve US businesses?</p><p>These are burning questions that must be addressed, but are being ignored.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is this software so valuable ?
It is so valuable because of the complexity of the financial markets ! Why are the financial markets so complex ? Are they unnecessarily complex ? Does the complexity fairly serve US citizens ? Does the complexity fairly serve US businesses ? These are burning questions that must be addressed , but are being ignored .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is this software so valuable?
It is so valuable because of the complexity of the financial markets!Why are the financial markets so complex?Are they unnecessarily complex?Does the complexity fairly serve US citizens?Does the complexity fairly serve US businesses?These are burning questions that must be addressed, but are being ignored.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593815</id>
	<title>Re:No one will touch that code.</title>
	<author>Snarf You</author>
	<datestamp>1246891440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I do like to read source code, but I am one in a million (of programmers) and theres probably around 7 million programmers, so probably theres only another 7 dudes like me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-I</p></div><p>Slight correction on the math: if there are 7 million programmers, and 1 in a million enjoy reading source code, there should be 7 total.  You are one of them, thus there should be 6 other dudes like you.<br> <br>

And I am one of those 6.<br> <br>

The search is on for the other 5 dudes like us.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do like to read source code , but I am one in a million ( of programmers ) and theres probably around 7 million programmers , so probably theres only another 7 dudes like me : -ISlight correction on the math : if there are 7 million programmers , and 1 in a million enjoy reading source code , there should be 7 total .
You are one of them , thus there should be 6 other dudes like you .
And I am one of those 6 .
The search is on for the other 5 dudes like us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do like to read source code, but I am one in a million (of programmers) and theres probably around 7 million programmers, so probably theres only another 7 dudes like me :-ISlight correction on the math: if there are 7 million programmers, and 1 in a million enjoy reading source code, there should be 7 total.
You are one of them, thus there should be 6 other dudes like you.
And I am one of those 6.
The search is on for the other 5 dudes like us.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593255</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593605</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>funkatron</author>
	<datestamp>1246890000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What if having the code allowed you to analyse it for ways to game the system?</p></div><p>Then you'd just be another trader in the market. The whole point is to game the system to your advantage</p><p>:</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What if having the code allowed you to analyse it for ways to game the system ? Then you 'd just be another trader in the market .
The whole point is to game the system to your advantage :</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if having the code allowed you to analyse it for ways to game the system?Then you'd just be another trader in the market.
The whole point is to game the system to your advantage:
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593433</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246889040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Dammit, put your tin foil hat back on.  You're making us look bad.

<br> <br>
The algorithm could be all the competitor needs to implement something similar on their own DB/trade application.  I mean, I'm sure Bing would love to have some Google code, even if they don't implement it, just to try to 1 up it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dammit , put your tin foil hat back on .
You 're making us look bad .
The algorithm could be all the competitor needs to implement something similar on their own DB/trade application .
I mean , I 'm sure Bing would love to have some Google code , even if they do n't implement it , just to try to 1 up it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dammit, put your tin foil hat back on.
You're making us look bad.
The algorithm could be all the competitor needs to implement something similar on their own DB/trade application.
I mean, I'm sure Bing would love to have some Google code, even if they don't implement it, just to try to 1 up it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594951</id>
	<title>Re:What's the exit strategy?</title>
	<author>dintech</author>
	<datestamp>1246897800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's possible that he wasn't going to sell it to anyone. I think he was just moving his toolbox to the next job rather than re-write common/useful stuff he might need again from memory. This sort of thing is quite common.</p><p>Anyway, I doubt his next employer knew anything about it in advance. Would you hire a guy who was going to walk out with your code when he left? No major bank would want anything to do with this particular headache.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's possible that he was n't going to sell it to anyone .
I think he was just moving his toolbox to the next job rather than re-write common/useful stuff he might need again from memory .
This sort of thing is quite common.Anyway , I doubt his next employer knew anything about it in advance .
Would you hire a guy who was going to walk out with your code when he left ?
No major bank would want anything to do with this particular headache .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's possible that he wasn't going to sell it to anyone.
I think he was just moving his toolbox to the next job rather than re-write common/useful stuff he might need again from memory.
This sort of thing is quite common.Anyway, I doubt his next employer knew anything about it in advance.
Would you hire a guy who was going to walk out with your code when he left?
No major bank would want anything to do with this particular headache.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594819</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>dimension6</author>
	<datestamp>1246897200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Although if you look at the recent <a href="http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&amp;chdd=1&amp;chds=1&amp;chdv=1&amp;chvs=maximized&amp;chdeh=0&amp;chdet=1246910400000&amp;chddm=98532&amp;q=NYSE:GS&amp;ntsp=0" title="google.com">stock price of GS</a> [google.com], you'll see that there hasn't been a big drop recently. This means that the shareholders don't think this leakage is a big deal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Although if you look at the recent stock price of GS [ google.com ] , you 'll see that there has n't been a big drop recently .
This means that the shareholders do n't think this leakage is a big deal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Although if you look at the recent stock price of GS [google.com], you'll see that there hasn't been a big drop recently.
This means that the shareholders don't think this leakage is a big deal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593453</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594823</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246897200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Without a serious volume of historic data and the necessary reference data in a format the code can use, I wouldn't bet on being able to game the system accurately.</p><p>While the absence of GS from the NYSE's Top 15 most active could be a precaution, I'd doubt it's any more than that.</p><p>Still, you've piqued my curiosity - think I'll see what my old GS buddies say about this over beer one night soon...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Without a serious volume of historic data and the necessary reference data in a format the code can use , I would n't bet on being able to game the system accurately.While the absence of GS from the NYSE 's Top 15 most active could be a precaution , I 'd doubt it 's any more than that.Still , you 've piqued my curiosity - think I 'll see what my old GS buddies say about this over beer one night soon.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Without a serious volume of historic data and the necessary reference data in a format the code can use, I wouldn't bet on being able to game the system accurately.While the absence of GS from the NYSE's Top 15 most active could be a precaution, I'd doubt it's any more than that.Still, you've piqued my curiosity - think I'll see what my old GS buddies say about this over beer one night soon...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594023</id>
	<title>Likely not another angle</title>
	<author>Sycraft-fu</author>
	<datestamp>1246892580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Crooks aren't always that smart. The guy may have the plan of "I take code, sell it to rival, I make millions," having not thought the practical matter through. As another poster noted, the Pepsi/Coke thing DID happen and what they did was contact the FBI.</p><p>While this isn't quite the same situation here, I'm betting the result would be the same. No legit corp wants to be involved in shit like this. It just wouldn't make sense and you'd stand to lose WAY more than you'd stand to gain. So they'd ignore the guy or, more likely, go to the authorities.</p><p>He probably has essentially stolen something that is worthless because there is no market. In theory it has a high value because it is special and was expensive to make but in practice nobody probably wants to buy it and as such it isn't worth anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Crooks are n't always that smart .
The guy may have the plan of " I take code , sell it to rival , I make millions , " having not thought the practical matter through .
As another poster noted , the Pepsi/Coke thing DID happen and what they did was contact the FBI.While this is n't quite the same situation here , I 'm betting the result would be the same .
No legit corp wants to be involved in shit like this .
It just would n't make sense and you 'd stand to lose WAY more than you 'd stand to gain .
So they 'd ignore the guy or , more likely , go to the authorities.He probably has essentially stolen something that is worthless because there is no market .
In theory it has a high value because it is special and was expensive to make but in practice nobody probably wants to buy it and as such it is n't worth anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Crooks aren't always that smart.
The guy may have the plan of "I take code, sell it to rival, I make millions," having not thought the practical matter through.
As another poster noted, the Pepsi/Coke thing DID happen and what they did was contact the FBI.While this isn't quite the same situation here, I'm betting the result would be the same.
No legit corp wants to be involved in shit like this.
It just wouldn't make sense and you'd stand to lose WAY more than you'd stand to gain.
So they'd ignore the guy or, more likely, go to the authorities.He probably has essentially stolen something that is worthless because there is no market.
In theory it has a high value because it is special and was expensive to make but in practice nobody probably wants to buy it and as such it isn't worth anything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28596057</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246902540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Assuming some useful algorithm was actually leaked:  I doubt that a single person reading these posts has the capital or the order routing ability to utilize those algorithms.</p><p>They are probably some variation of index arbitrage.  That is not some top-secret manipulation of the market -- how it's done is public knowledge.  Only institutions do it because of the capital and infrastructure requirements.  The time it takes for your order to get routed, filled, and confirmed is more important than the algorithm itself.</p><p>And the commissions you pay at your retail broker aren't going to allow you to make any money with any institutional trading algorithms.  Ever.  These are not buy x shares of this stock at this price and sell x shares at that price.</p><p>These would be trading futures, commodities, complex options spreads on those, pairs trading (i dunno - hedge a short oil position by being short transportation sector?), trading the spread between the Nasdaq and the S&amp;P or any other index for that matter, probably throw in some hedges with bonds and currencies.</p><p>And you can do all of that with your retail broker, so someone at Goldman in the know would laugh at those examples I wrote above.  Point is, there is always a bigger fish who knows more than you and none of the proprietary trading algos at GS are going to be of use to any of you reading this.</p><p>These are not complex AI or market manipulation programs.  Just big-volume hedging algorithms.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Assuming some useful algorithm was actually leaked : I doubt that a single person reading these posts has the capital or the order routing ability to utilize those algorithms.They are probably some variation of index arbitrage .
That is not some top-secret manipulation of the market -- how it 's done is public knowledge .
Only institutions do it because of the capital and infrastructure requirements .
The time it takes for your order to get routed , filled , and confirmed is more important than the algorithm itself.And the commissions you pay at your retail broker are n't going to allow you to make any money with any institutional trading algorithms .
Ever. These are not buy x shares of this stock at this price and sell x shares at that price.These would be trading futures , commodities , complex options spreads on those , pairs trading ( i dunno - hedge a short oil position by being short transportation sector ?
) , trading the spread between the Nasdaq and the S&amp;P or any other index for that matter , probably throw in some hedges with bonds and currencies.And you can do all of that with your retail broker , so someone at Goldman in the know would laugh at those examples I wrote above .
Point is , there is always a bigger fish who knows more than you and none of the proprietary trading algos at GS are going to be of use to any of you reading this.These are not complex AI or market manipulation programs .
Just big-volume hedging algorithms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Assuming some useful algorithm was actually leaked:  I doubt that a single person reading these posts has the capital or the order routing ability to utilize those algorithms.They are probably some variation of index arbitrage.
That is not some top-secret manipulation of the market -- how it's done is public knowledge.
Only institutions do it because of the capital and infrastructure requirements.
The time it takes for your order to get routed, filled, and confirmed is more important than the algorithm itself.And the commissions you pay at your retail broker aren't going to allow you to make any money with any institutional trading algorithms.
Ever.  These are not buy x shares of this stock at this price and sell x shares at that price.These would be trading futures, commodities, complex options spreads on those, pairs trading (i dunno - hedge a short oil position by being short transportation sector?
), trading the spread between the Nasdaq and the S&amp;P or any other index for that matter, probably throw in some hedges with bonds and currencies.And you can do all of that with your retail broker, so someone at Goldman in the know would laugh at those examples I wrote above.
Point is, there is always a bigger fish who knows more than you and none of the proprietary trading algos at GS are going to be of use to any of you reading this.These are not complex AI or market manipulation programs.
Just big-volume hedging algorithms.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28602311</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>pyite</author>
	<datestamp>1246888260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>A lot of money was funneled to GS by Paulsen (a GS alumni) and some of their major competitors were crippled.</i></p><p>You're an idiot and I can't let this stand without rebuttal. If you're referring to AIG bailout money going to GS, then you're complaining about GS getting paid for contracts that AIG knowingly and willfully entered into. Had AIG failed to live up to their end of the bargain, credit default swaps on AIG itself would have been triggered and even MORE companies would have had to pay for AIG's mistakes.</p><p>Goldman should be praised for <i>properly hedging all their positions</i> and this is what any shareholder of the firm would expect.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of money was funneled to GS by Paulsen ( a GS alumni ) and some of their major competitors were crippled.You 're an idiot and I ca n't let this stand without rebuttal .
If you 're referring to AIG bailout money going to GS , then you 're complaining about GS getting paid for contracts that AIG knowingly and willfully entered into .
Had AIG failed to live up to their end of the bargain , credit default swaps on AIG itself would have been triggered and even MORE companies would have had to pay for AIG 's mistakes.Goldman should be praised for properly hedging all their positions and this is what any shareholder of the firm would expect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of money was funneled to GS by Paulsen (a GS alumni) and some of their major competitors were crippled.You're an idiot and I can't let this stand without rebuttal.
If you're referring to AIG bailout money going to GS, then you're complaining about GS getting paid for contracts that AIG knowingly and willfully entered into.
Had AIG failed to live up to their end of the bargain, credit default swaps on AIG itself would have been triggered and even MORE companies would have had to pay for AIG's mistakes.Goldman should be praised for properly hedging all their positions and this is what any shareholder of the firm would expect.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595047</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594103</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246893060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>There will be so much infra managed by so many teams in the bank that nobody will have root passwords to everything from internet entry point through to a trading platform, if GS still allow root passwords to be used at all. Additionally there will be many firewalls between public side and anywhere you would be interested in getting to.

A developer would have no Prod system access anyway (SOX).</htmltext>
<tokenext>There will be so much infra managed by so many teams in the bank that nobody will have root passwords to everything from internet entry point through to a trading platform , if GS still allow root passwords to be used at all .
Additionally there will be many firewalls between public side and anywhere you would be interested in getting to .
A developer would have no Prod system access anyway ( SOX ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There will be so much infra managed by so many teams in the bank that nobody will have root passwords to everything from internet entry point through to a trading platform, if GS still allow root passwords to be used at all.
Additionally there will be many firewalls between public side and anywhere you would be interested in getting to.
A developer would have no Prod system access anyway (SOX).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593155</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593193</id>
	<title>Re:Even More Interesting</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its a longshot, but maybe it has something to do with this:</p><p>http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3159732&amp;pagenumber=1</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its a longshot , but maybe it has something to do with this : http : //forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php ? threadid = 3159732&amp;pagenumber = 1</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its a longshot, but maybe it has something to do with this:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3159732&amp;pagenumber=1</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593163</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594153</id>
	<title>I can't believe.</title>
	<author>Roskolnikov</author>
	<datestamp>1246893360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is bash history admissible in court? really?  does the 5th amendment apply, it might be considered testimony against ones self.</p><p>fun....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is bash history admissible in court ?
really ? does the 5th amendment apply , it might be considered testimony against ones self.fun... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is bash history admissible in court?
really?  does the 5th amendment apply, it might be considered testimony against ones self.fun....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594437</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>DavidHumus</author>
	<datestamp>1246895160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even without knowing these idiosyncrasies, it's unlikely that the code is runnable without the expensive, unique infrastructure for which it's been customized.</p><p>As far as "gaming the algorithm" - it's doing real-time processing between multiple sources.  You're unlikely to discover anything by reading the code other than that they do some seemingly-odd things in the interests of efficiency.  In fact, you can probably guess the most important algorithm: if the same thing is priced differently at two different exchanges, buy the cheaper one and sell the more expensive one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even without knowing these idiosyncrasies , it 's unlikely that the code is runnable without the expensive , unique infrastructure for which it 's been customized.As far as " gaming the algorithm " - it 's doing real-time processing between multiple sources .
You 're unlikely to discover anything by reading the code other than that they do some seemingly-odd things in the interests of efficiency .
In fact , you can probably guess the most important algorithm : if the same thing is priced differently at two different exchanges , buy the cheaper one and sell the more expensive one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even without knowing these idiosyncrasies, it's unlikely that the code is runnable without the expensive, unique infrastructure for which it's been customized.As far as "gaming the algorithm" - it's doing real-time processing between multiple sources.
You're unlikely to discover anything by reading the code other than that they do some seemingly-odd things in the interests of efficiency.
In fact, you can probably guess the most important algorithm: if the same thing is priced differently at two different exchanges, buy the cheaper one and sell the more expensive one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595101</id>
	<title>Re:What's the exit strategy?</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1246898340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The difference between utilizing this code and stealing a design or secret formula for a product is that this system is never going to see the light of day for sale as a competing product. There will be no executable to reverse engineer that will reveal similarities. The only thing visible to the public and GS attorneys will be a pattern of trades. And they'll have a difficult time proving that someone else didn't just build a similar system from the ground up.
</p><p>Granted, there is still the possibility of blackmail. But this is usually taken care of by ensuring that anyone familiar with the codes origins will also be charged as a co-conspirator. And cutting them in on the profits for additional motivation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The difference between utilizing this code and stealing a design or secret formula for a product is that this system is never going to see the light of day for sale as a competing product .
There will be no executable to reverse engineer that will reveal similarities .
The only thing visible to the public and GS attorneys will be a pattern of trades .
And they 'll have a difficult time proving that someone else did n't just build a similar system from the ground up .
Granted , there is still the possibility of blackmail .
But this is usually taken care of by ensuring that anyone familiar with the codes origins will also be charged as a co-conspirator .
And cutting them in on the profits for additional motivation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The difference between utilizing this code and stealing a design or secret formula for a product is that this system is never going to see the light of day for sale as a competing product.
There will be no executable to reverse engineer that will reveal similarities.
The only thing visible to the public and GS attorneys will be a pattern of trades.
And they'll have a difficult time proving that someone else didn't just build a similar system from the ground up.
Granted, there is still the possibility of blackmail.
But this is usually taken care of by ensuring that anyone familiar with the codes origins will also be charged as a co-conspirator.
And cutting them in on the profits for additional motivation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593837</id>
	<title>"Project Mayhem" Alternate Ending?</title>
	<author>tunapez</author>
	<datestamp>1246891680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone notice the 2nd article's author's name? Wouldn't it be nice if this bit of info exposed the market manipulations that led us down the road of $124 barrel oil? Tyler Durden eat your heart out, maybe Robin Hood will save the day!</p><p>sigh...that shit only happens in the movies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone notice the 2nd article 's author 's name ?
Would n't it be nice if this bit of info exposed the market manipulations that led us down the road of $ 124 barrel oil ?
Tyler Durden eat your heart out , maybe Robin Hood will save the day ! sigh...that shit only happens in the movies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone notice the 2nd article's author's name?
Wouldn't it be nice if this bit of info exposed the market manipulations that led us down the road of $124 barrel oil?
Tyler Durden eat your heart out, maybe Robin Hood will save the day!sigh...that shit only happens in the movies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595003</id>
	<title>FFS, stop blowing this up.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246897980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AFAIK, the guy simply stole the code for an "algo" - an engine that takes trading decisions based on a set of formulae.  These things take a good year to develop and have an active life of a few weeks until someone figures out the algorithms and starts trading against them.</p><p>This is not news, this stuff exists since years.  The theft isn't a surprise either, there is quite a bit of competition in that small market.  There is AFAIK only a limited set of people who can develop this, put it into live use and make a profit for as long as it works.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AFAIK , the guy simply stole the code for an " algo " - an engine that takes trading decisions based on a set of formulae .
These things take a good year to develop and have an active life of a few weeks until someone figures out the algorithms and starts trading against them.This is not news , this stuff exists since years .
The theft is n't a surprise either , there is quite a bit of competition in that small market .
There is AFAIK only a limited set of people who can develop this , put it into live use and make a profit for as long as it works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AFAIK, the guy simply stole the code for an "algo" - an engine that takes trading decisions based on a set of formulae.
These things take a good year to develop and have an active life of a few weeks until someone figures out the algorithms and starts trading against them.This is not news, this stuff exists since years.
The theft isn't a surprise either, there is quite a bit of competition in that small market.
There is AFAIK only a limited set of people who can develop this, put it into live use and make a profit for as long as it works.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595227</id>
	<title>the code Goldman used to tank itself.</title>
	<author>swschrad</author>
	<datestamp>1246899000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>truly a pearl of great price, I'm sure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>truly a pearl of great price , I 'm sure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>truly a pearl of great price, I'm sure.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594631</id>
	<title>Re:Even More Interesting</title>
	<author>Sentax</author>
	<datestamp>1246896120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The real question is how could GS let one single developer have complete access to the whole source code at the same time?  It's like Microsoft giving the person that is improving the calculator for the next version of Windows complete access to kernel code, etc.
<br> <br>
I'm not positive on the position that Sergey was in, but if he is very low level developer of the code for GS, then they should of done more background checks, personality checks, whatever you can think of checks to ensure that he's a trustworthy employee to have complete access.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The real question is how could GS let one single developer have complete access to the whole source code at the same time ?
It 's like Microsoft giving the person that is improving the calculator for the next version of Windows complete access to kernel code , etc .
I 'm not positive on the position that Sergey was in , but if he is very low level developer of the code for GS , then they should of done more background checks , personality checks , whatever you can think of checks to ensure that he 's a trustworthy employee to have complete access .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real question is how could GS let one single developer have complete access to the whole source code at the same time?
It's like Microsoft giving the person that is improving the calculator for the next version of Windows complete access to kernel code, etc.
I'm not positive on the position that Sergey was in, but if he is very low level developer of the code for GS, then they should of done more background checks, personality checks, whatever you can think of checks to ensure that he's a trustworthy employee to have complete access.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593163</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28597519</id>
	<title>Grep the source for "Plunge Protection" ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246908420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ok, here's a paranoid idea.</p><p>The real fear, and the reason that the government moved so quickly to try to get a lid on this, is that the Goldman program trading system probably contained Plunge Protection [tm] code, at the request of the government.  The idea would be to use Goldman's massive program trading volume to either cause, or mask, intraday instability and achieve "up" closes on critical days, or around the release of critical numbers.   That's the "proprietary" secret that can't get out, or the whole game is up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , here 's a paranoid idea.The real fear , and the reason that the government moved so quickly to try to get a lid on this , is that the Goldman program trading system probably contained Plunge Protection [ tm ] code , at the request of the government .
The idea would be to use Goldman 's massive program trading volume to either cause , or mask , intraday instability and achieve " up " closes on critical days , or around the release of critical numbers .
That 's the " proprietary " secret that ca n't get out , or the whole game is up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, here's a paranoid idea.The real fear, and the reason that the government moved so quickly to try to get a lid on this, is that the Goldman program trading system probably contained Plunge Protection [tm] code, at the request of the government.
The idea would be to use Goldman's massive program trading volume to either cause, or mask, intraday instability and achieve "up" closes on critical days, or around the release of critical numbers.
That's the "proprietary" secret that can't get out, or the whole game is up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594981</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246897920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A decent programmer could sus the algos regardless and a team of them could potentially duplicate the logic, language-independent. Still, i think there's a good chance guy just wanted to have the source he worked on since he was changing jobs. I know I'd like to take a lot of the code libraries I've worked on over the years, just as reference alone. And of course that stuff is small potatoes compared to this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A decent programmer could sus the algos regardless and a team of them could potentially duplicate the logic , language-independent .
Still , i think there 's a good chance guy just wanted to have the source he worked on since he was changing jobs .
I know I 'd like to take a lot of the code libraries I 've worked on over the years , just as reference alone .
And of course that stuff is small potatoes compared to this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A decent programmer could sus the algos regardless and a team of them could potentially duplicate the logic, language-independent.
Still, i think there's a good chance guy just wanted to have the source he worked on since he was changing jobs.
I know I'd like to take a lot of the code libraries I've worked on over the years, just as reference alone.
And of course that stuff is small potatoes compared to this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593377</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1246888620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Passwords can be easily changed by any old sysadmin, with minimal damage,  as long as the passwords are changed quickly, or remote access is locked out, the damage can easily be mitigated very rapidly.
</p><p>
Changing source code  (to allay use of it by the thief to attack its owners, beat GS at their own game, or sell to competitors), is time-consuming, and requires the assistance of many software experts (programmers).
</p><p>
The damage can only be mitigated by shutting down the system, and waiting a long time for changes to get made, or for the software to get rewritten, to protect against evil third parties knowing the trading system's flaws.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Passwords can be easily changed by any old sysadmin , with minimal damage , as long as the passwords are changed quickly , or remote access is locked out , the damage can easily be mitigated very rapidly .
Changing source code ( to allay use of it by the thief to attack its owners , beat GS at their own game , or sell to competitors ) , is time-consuming , and requires the assistance of many software experts ( programmers ) .
The damage can only be mitigated by shutting down the system , and waiting a long time for changes to get made , or for the software to get rewritten , to protect against evil third parties knowing the trading system 's flaws .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Passwords can be easily changed by any old sysadmin, with minimal damage,  as long as the passwords are changed quickly, or remote access is locked out, the damage can easily be mitigated very rapidly.
Changing source code  (to allay use of it by the thief to attack its owners, beat GS at their own game, or sell to competitors), is time-consuming, and requires the assistance of many software experts (programmers).
The damage can only be mitigated by shutting down the system, and waiting a long time for changes to get made, or for the software to get rewritten, to protect against evil third parties knowing the trading system's flaws.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593155</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593213</id>
	<title>Proving theft..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its hardly surprising that this sort of code is highly valuable but the challenge is surely going to be proving that it was actually stolen.  If they have a bash history that doesn't include the IP addresses but just shows that he created a tar ball then where is the proof that he actually stole anything at all?</p><p>The original is of course still there, what he took is a copy, so you can't show something is missing.</p><p>They currently don't know where it has gone, so they can't prove that a copy was moved outside the firewall successfully</p><p>If he hasn't yet sold the stuff on they can't prove there was a financial benefit linked to the theft</p><p>So how will they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that some actual theft has gone on?</p><p>Its not like he has just lobbed it on Bit-torrent or posted it to Wikileaks.  What he has done is taken a copy of the code, which means its Intellectual Property and copyright issues rather than "simple" theft and therefore they really need to prove (surely) that he has done something with the code.</p><p>Should be interesting to see how the police "generate" and prove the evidence on this one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its hardly surprising that this sort of code is highly valuable but the challenge is surely going to be proving that it was actually stolen .
If they have a bash history that does n't include the IP addresses but just shows that he created a tar ball then where is the proof that he actually stole anything at all ? The original is of course still there , what he took is a copy , so you ca n't show something is missing.They currently do n't know where it has gone , so they ca n't prove that a copy was moved outside the firewall successfullyIf he has n't yet sold the stuff on they ca n't prove there was a financial benefit linked to the theftSo how will they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that some actual theft has gone on ? Its not like he has just lobbed it on Bit-torrent or posted it to Wikileaks .
What he has done is taken a copy of the code , which means its Intellectual Property and copyright issues rather than " simple " theft and therefore they really need to prove ( surely ) that he has done something with the code.Should be interesting to see how the police " generate " and prove the evidence on this one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its hardly surprising that this sort of code is highly valuable but the challenge is surely going to be proving that it was actually stolen.
If they have a bash history that doesn't include the IP addresses but just shows that he created a tar ball then where is the proof that he actually stole anything at all?The original is of course still there, what he took is a copy, so you can't show something is missing.They currently don't know where it has gone, so they can't prove that a copy was moved outside the firewall successfullyIf he hasn't yet sold the stuff on they can't prove there was a financial benefit linked to the theftSo how will they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that some actual theft has gone on?Its not like he has just lobbed it on Bit-torrent or posted it to Wikileaks.
What he has done is taken a copy of the code, which means its Intellectual Property and copyright issues rather than "simple" theft and therefore they really need to prove (surely) that he has done something with the code.Should be interesting to see how the police "generate" and prove the evidence on this one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594239</id>
	<title>Finally</title>
	<author>mikeage</author>
	<datestamp>1246893900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We can finally know what goes in the ????? before PROFIT!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We can finally know what goes in the ? ? ? ? ?
before PROFIT !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can finally know what goes in the ?????
before PROFIT!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593571</id>
	<title>Their source code is useless</title>
	<author>bartwol</author>
	<datestamp>1246889880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I worked for a financial services company that had similar types of systems. The legal department and security people were always concerned about people stealing our source code.</p><p>But their fears were unfounded. Why? Because the source code is highly customized code that not only implements thoroughly non-standards-based algorithms, but is also tightly coupled to underlying hardware/software platforms (and the non-standardized APIs of their peer systems). The result: you can't run it anywhere but on the infrastructure of the company for which it was built. Sure, you could pull out a subroutine here or there. But overall, it's pretty worthless stuff.</p><p>Humorously, we had a large, difficult, multi-year project to port our code to a newer hardware platform (same O.S. and language tools). I joked that we should post all our source code on the web for free unencumbered download, and if somebody could get it to run on the newer (or any other) platform, we could pay them $2 million for their effort and still come out way ahead in the deal. Everybody laughed and agreed that that <b>would</b> be a dream come true.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I worked for a financial services company that had similar types of systems .
The legal department and security people were always concerned about people stealing our source code.But their fears were unfounded .
Why ? Because the source code is highly customized code that not only implements thoroughly non-standards-based algorithms , but is also tightly coupled to underlying hardware/software platforms ( and the non-standardized APIs of their peer systems ) .
The result : you ca n't run it anywhere but on the infrastructure of the company for which it was built .
Sure , you could pull out a subroutine here or there .
But overall , it 's pretty worthless stuff.Humorously , we had a large , difficult , multi-year project to port our code to a newer hardware platform ( same O.S .
and language tools ) .
I joked that we should post all our source code on the web for free unencumbered download , and if somebody could get it to run on the newer ( or any other ) platform , we could pay them $ 2 million for their effort and still come out way ahead in the deal .
Everybody laughed and agreed that that would be a dream come true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worked for a financial services company that had similar types of systems.
The legal department and security people were always concerned about people stealing our source code.But their fears were unfounded.
Why? Because the source code is highly customized code that not only implements thoroughly non-standards-based algorithms, but is also tightly coupled to underlying hardware/software platforms (and the non-standardized APIs of their peer systems).
The result: you can't run it anywhere but on the infrastructure of the company for which it was built.
Sure, you could pull out a subroutine here or there.
But overall, it's pretty worthless stuff.Humorously, we had a large, difficult, multi-year project to port our code to a newer hardware platform (same O.S.
and language tools).
I joked that we should post all our source code on the web for free unencumbered download, and if somebody could get it to run on the newer (or any other) platform, we could pay them $2 million for their effort and still come out way ahead in the deal.
Everybody laughed and agreed that that would be a dream come true.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28596181</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246903140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think you can "game" their system.  Institutions don't move markets at their whim.  They can make a nice pop up by hitting every offer until they don't have any capital left.  Then it gets pushed right back down by every other institution hitting all the new bids that hit the exchange after that pop up.</p><p>Sometimes you have more buyers than sellers.  This makes the chart go up.  And sometimes you have more sellers than buyers.  This makes the chart go down.</p><p>What causes a majority consensus among all market participants on when to be a buyer and when to be a seller is the real question.  And institutions have no effect on that.  Joe-daytrader might get head faked out of a short position by the hypothetical pop up I mentioned above, but other institutions are not fooled, and will sell the pop up in a way that has completely defined risk.  They are not just "placing a bet".</p><p>Don't let that get in the way of your conspiracies and plunge protection teams etc, though...  Have fun.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think you can " game " their system .
Institutions do n't move markets at their whim .
They can make a nice pop up by hitting every offer until they do n't have any capital left .
Then it gets pushed right back down by every other institution hitting all the new bids that hit the exchange after that pop up.Sometimes you have more buyers than sellers .
This makes the chart go up .
And sometimes you have more sellers than buyers .
This makes the chart go down.What causes a majority consensus among all market participants on when to be a buyer and when to be a seller is the real question .
And institutions have no effect on that .
Joe-daytrader might get head faked out of a short position by the hypothetical pop up I mentioned above , but other institutions are not fooled , and will sell the pop up in a way that has completely defined risk .
They are not just " placing a bet " .Do n't let that get in the way of your conspiracies and plunge protection teams etc , though... Have fun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think you can "game" their system.
Institutions don't move markets at their whim.
They can make a nice pop up by hitting every offer until they don't have any capital left.
Then it gets pushed right back down by every other institution hitting all the new bids that hit the exchange after that pop up.Sometimes you have more buyers than sellers.
This makes the chart go up.
And sometimes you have more sellers than buyers.
This makes the chart go down.What causes a majority consensus among all market participants on when to be a buyer and when to be a seller is the real question.
And institutions have no effect on that.
Joe-daytrader might get head faked out of a short position by the hypothetical pop up I mentioned above, but other institutions are not fooled, and will sell the pop up in a way that has completely defined risk.
They are not just "placing a bet".Don't let that get in the way of your conspiracies and plunge protection teams etc, though...  Have fun.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593697</id>
	<title>Re:Even More Interesting</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246890660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is possible that the bank which aided the defrauding of the Mirror pensioners for million pound bonuses while the pathetic UK government stood by with its thumb up its arse might suffer some serious financial problems as a result of Aleynikov. Couldn't happen to a more deserving crowd.</p><p>Goldman Sachs... cockney rhyming slang for bunch of c**ts... or at least it should be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is possible that the bank which aided the defrauding of the Mirror pensioners for million pound bonuses while the pathetic UK government stood by with its thumb up its arse might suffer some serious financial problems as a result of Aleynikov .
Could n't happen to a more deserving crowd.Goldman Sachs... cockney rhyming slang for bunch of c * * ts... or at least it should be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is possible that the bank which aided the defrauding of the Mirror pensioners for million pound bonuses while the pathetic UK government stood by with its thumb up its arse might suffer some serious financial problems as a result of Aleynikov.
Couldn't happen to a more deserving crowd.Goldman Sachs... cockney rhyming slang for bunch of c**ts... or at least it should be.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593163</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593929</id>
	<title>Re:Proving theft..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246892160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have clearly never worked on a leading financial companies' network before</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have clearly never worked on a leading financial companies ' network before</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have clearly never worked on a leading financial companies' network before</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28604737</id>
	<title>Re:What's the exit strategy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246997820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You could just be a non-US company who doesn't care about US-laws or the influence of GS.</p><p>For example a Chinese or Russian company that's got close ties to the government. Goldmann doesn't hold a monopoly on corruption and subversion of governments.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You could just be a non-US company who does n't care about US-laws or the influence of GS.For example a Chinese or Russian company that 's got close ties to the government .
Goldmann does n't hold a monopoly on corruption and subversion of governments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could just be a non-US company who doesn't care about US-laws or the influence of GS.For example a Chinese or Russian company that's got close ties to the government.
Goldmann doesn't hold a monopoly on corruption and subversion of governments.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28685711</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>overbored</author>
	<datestamp>1247499840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The OP's point is not that you wouldn't be able to interpret the logic, but that the logic could be useless without the dataset it operates on.  Cf. any statistical supervised learning algorithm that consume hand-labeled training samples.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The OP 's point is not that you would n't be able to interpret the logic , but that the logic could be useless without the dataset it operates on .
Cf. any statistical supervised learning algorithm that consume hand-labeled training samples .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The OP's point is not that you wouldn't be able to interpret the logic, but that the logic could be useless without the dataset it operates on.
Cf. any statistical supervised learning algorithm that consume hand-labeled training samples.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594897</id>
	<title>Worthless Code</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246897620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean the worthless code from a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/failed/ Goldman Sachs? The possibilities are endless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean the worthless code from a /failed/ Goldman Sachs ?
The possibilities are endless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean the worthless code from a /failed/ Goldman Sachs?
The possibilities are endless.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28596293</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>kgskgs</author>
	<datestamp>1246903560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did you hear the latest?</p><p>They found the source code was just one file containing contained only the following lines</p><p>#include "federal\_reserve.h"</p><p>int main ()<br>{<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; if (loss)<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; {<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; feds-&gt;bailout();<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; executives-&gt;pay\_bonus();<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; }<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; else<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; {<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; stockholders-&gt;pay\_dividend();<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; executives-&gt;pay\_bonus();<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; }<br>}</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did you hear the latest ? They found the source code was just one file containing contained only the following lines # include " federal \ _reserve.h " int main ( ) {     if ( loss )         {               feds- &gt; bailout ( ) ;               executives- &gt; pay \ _bonus ( ) ;         }       else         {               stockholders- &gt; pay \ _dividend ( ) ;               executives- &gt; pay \ _bonus ( ) ;           } }</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did you hear the latest?They found the source code was just one file containing contained only the following lines#include "federal\_reserve.h"int main (){
    if (loss)
        {
              feds-&gt;bailout();
              executives-&gt;pay\_bonus();
        }
      else
        {
              stockholders-&gt;pay\_dividend();
              executives-&gt;pay\_bonus();
          }}</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593155</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593155</id>
	<title>Surely not?</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1246887180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can't believe that Goldman's algorithmic trading code is more valuable than its list of root passwords to governments all over the world...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't believe that Goldman 's algorithmic trading code is more valuable than its list of root passwords to governments all over the world.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't believe that Goldman's algorithmic trading code is more valuable than its list of root passwords to governments all over the world...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594905</id>
	<title>Bash??</title>
	<author>sam0vi</author>
	<datestamp>1246897620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bash?? Really?? Then i guess we don't have to ask the age old question... What OS do their systems run??</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bash ? ?
Really ? ? Then i guess we do n't have to ask the age old question... What OS do their systems run ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bash??
Really?? Then i guess we don't have to ask the age old question... What OS do their systems run?
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28600383</id>
	<title>GS secrets revealed on /. right here, right now</title>
	<author>jackspenn</author>
	<datestamp>1246878060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Listen I am going to drop a huge bombshell on how GS makes their money and it has nothing to do with source code or trading.  Ready?
<br> <br>
<b>Step 1:</b>  Buy Republicans<br>
<b>Step 2:</b>  Hedge investment and buy Democrats<br>
<b>Step 3:</b>  Create illusion that there is a difference between above to avoid discovery that you own both.  Get people to vote for their party each election, one thing you don't want is for people catch on and vote against all incumbents which you are heavily invested into and who have been there long enough to feel comfortable bending rules or outright breaking law.<br>
<b>Step 4:</b>  Make money trading stocks, bonds and commodities using leverage from 1,2,3 and 5.<br>
<b>Step 5:</b>  If nobody to buy, have former GS executives run.  See Corzine - D - NJ Governor and Paulson - R - Former Treasury Secretary.<br>
<b>Step 6:</b>  If GS fails to make money on step 4, get politicians to bail you out indirectly to avoid blame.  For example get them to bailout your failing investment AIG, then have AIG kick you back the $20 billion you gave them.  Sure take direct bailout money, but give it back should public try to regulate GS salaries or demand transparency.<br>
<b>Step 7:</b>  Act like you are better at making money because you are really really smart and it has nothing to do with the fact that you are in a position to change the rules.  Look down on little people and small businesses trying to compete while playing by rules.<br>
<b>Step 8:</b>  As if making money trading actual items by influencing markets/politicians isn't profitable enough, kick it up a notch and make money trading<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... wait for it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... <i>nothing</i>.  Call it Cap 'n Trade, make people think it will help environment, knowing that in truth it will not cut back on global pollution, that it will ship manufacturing to other countries along with jobs.  Tell people it doesn't tax them and will create jobs (I mean with all the money GS execs will be making they can higher more gophers to get them coffee and they will be going out in NYC to eat expensive meals and that will employ aspiring actors<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... I mean waiters).  Don't tax/charge people directly just tax companies, services and products the people cannot do without.  When prices go up on those things blame the very companies that GS and US federal government are robbing with a pen (guns are so small time) and say it is their<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... wait for it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... "selfish greed".  Have system in place so the shares of <i>nothing</i> you are trading become more and more rare over time to ensure you get larger and larger pay outs and hope US public is to stupid to vote out every paid politician you had in your pocket to vote for it.  Rememeber avoid and deflect, blame the other side.<br>
<b>Step 9:</b>  If questioned or called out, act as if there is no way the person pointing out truth could possibly understand the complexities of the system and therefore and unqualified to comment.  If person is in energy production label them greedy capitalistic ways".  If somebody from any other sector of economy comes forward to detail insanity of scam, I mean legislation, label them a racist or proclaim they don't care about<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... wait for it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... "the children".  If person is using slashdot then mod them -1 TROLL.<br>
<b>Step 10:</b>  Goto Step 1.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Listen I am going to drop a huge bombshell on how GS makes their money and it has nothing to do with source code or trading .
Ready ? Step 1 : Buy Republicans Step 2 : Hedge investment and buy Democrats Step 3 : Create illusion that there is a difference between above to avoid discovery that you own both .
Get people to vote for their party each election , one thing you do n't want is for people catch on and vote against all incumbents which you are heavily invested into and who have been there long enough to feel comfortable bending rules or outright breaking law .
Step 4 : Make money trading stocks , bonds and commodities using leverage from 1,2,3 and 5 .
Step 5 : If nobody to buy , have former GS executives run .
See Corzine - D - NJ Governor and Paulson - R - Former Treasury Secretary .
Step 6 : If GS fails to make money on step 4 , get politicians to bail you out indirectly to avoid blame .
For example get them to bailout your failing investment AIG , then have AIG kick you back the $ 20 billion you gave them .
Sure take direct bailout money , but give it back should public try to regulate GS salaries or demand transparency .
Step 7 : Act like you are better at making money because you are really really smart and it has nothing to do with the fact that you are in a position to change the rules .
Look down on little people and small businesses trying to compete while playing by rules .
Step 8 : As if making money trading actual items by influencing markets/politicians is n't profitable enough , kick it up a notch and make money trading ... wait for it ... nothing. Call it Cap 'n Trade , make people think it will help environment , knowing that in truth it will not cut back on global pollution , that it will ship manufacturing to other countries along with jobs .
Tell people it does n't tax them and will create jobs ( I mean with all the money GS execs will be making they can higher more gophers to get them coffee and they will be going out in NYC to eat expensive meals and that will employ aspiring actors ... I mean waiters ) .
Do n't tax/charge people directly just tax companies , services and products the people can not do without .
When prices go up on those things blame the very companies that GS and US federal government are robbing with a pen ( guns are so small time ) and say it is their ... wait for it ... " selfish greed " .
Have system in place so the shares of nothing you are trading become more and more rare over time to ensure you get larger and larger pay outs and hope US public is to stupid to vote out every paid politician you had in your pocket to vote for it .
Rememeber avoid and deflect , blame the other side .
Step 9 : If questioned or called out , act as if there is no way the person pointing out truth could possibly understand the complexities of the system and therefore and unqualified to comment .
If person is in energy production label them greedy capitalistic ways " .
If somebody from any other sector of economy comes forward to detail insanity of scam , I mean legislation , label them a racist or proclaim they do n't care about ... wait for it ... " the children " .
If person is using slashdot then mod them -1 TROLL .
Step 10 : Goto Step 1 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Listen I am going to drop a huge bombshell on how GS makes their money and it has nothing to do with source code or trading.
Ready?
 
Step 1:  Buy Republicans
Step 2:  Hedge investment and buy Democrats
Step 3:  Create illusion that there is a difference between above to avoid discovery that you own both.
Get people to vote for their party each election, one thing you don't want is for people catch on and vote against all incumbents which you are heavily invested into and who have been there long enough to feel comfortable bending rules or outright breaking law.
Step 4:  Make money trading stocks, bonds and commodities using leverage from 1,2,3 and 5.
Step 5:  If nobody to buy, have former GS executives run.
See Corzine - D - NJ Governor and Paulson - R - Former Treasury Secretary.
Step 6:  If GS fails to make money on step 4, get politicians to bail you out indirectly to avoid blame.
For example get them to bailout your failing investment AIG, then have AIG kick you back the $20 billion you gave them.
Sure take direct bailout money, but give it back should public try to regulate GS salaries or demand transparency.
Step 7:  Act like you are better at making money because you are really really smart and it has nothing to do with the fact that you are in a position to change the rules.
Look down on little people and small businesses trying to compete while playing by rules.
Step 8:  As if making money trading actual items by influencing markets/politicians isn't profitable enough, kick it up a notch and make money trading ... wait for it ... nothing.  Call it Cap 'n Trade, make people think it will help environment, knowing that in truth it will not cut back on global pollution, that it will ship manufacturing to other countries along with jobs.
Tell people it doesn't tax them and will create jobs (I mean with all the money GS execs will be making they can higher more gophers to get them coffee and they will be going out in NYC to eat expensive meals and that will employ aspiring actors ... I mean waiters).
Don't tax/charge people directly just tax companies, services and products the people cannot do without.
When prices go up on those things blame the very companies that GS and US federal government are robbing with a pen (guns are so small time) and say it is their ... wait for it ... "selfish greed".
Have system in place so the shares of nothing you are trading become more and more rare over time to ensure you get larger and larger pay outs and hope US public is to stupid to vote out every paid politician you had in your pocket to vote for it.
Rememeber avoid and deflect, blame the other side.
Step 9:  If questioned or called out, act as if there is no way the person pointing out truth could possibly understand the complexities of the system and therefore and unqualified to comment.
If person is in energy production label them greedy capitalistic ways".
If somebody from any other sector of economy comes forward to detail insanity of scam, I mean legislation, label them a racist or proclaim they don't care about ... wait for it ... "the children".
If person is using slashdot then mod them -1 TROLL.
Step 10:  Goto Step 1.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593305</id>
	<title>Re:Even More Interesting</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246888080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uh, oh... their bollinger bands (or something nearly identical in principle [like rolling candles?]) broke!</p><p>It is not unheard of these algorithms [all of them!] to simply stop working one day---like majority of the naive ones did in ~2002 or so.</p><p>Also, ``most active trader'' list means very little these days, as only ~20-30\% of the total volume goes through nyse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh , oh... their bollinger bands ( or something nearly identical in principle [ like rolling candles ?
] ) broke ! It is not unheard of these algorithms [ all of them !
] to simply stop working one day---like majority of the naive ones did in ~ 2002 or so.Also , ` ` most active trader' ' list means very little these days , as only ~ 20-30 \ % of the total volume goes through nyse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh, oh... their bollinger bands (or something nearly identical in principle [like rolling candles?
]) broke!It is not unheard of these algorithms [all of them!
] to simply stop working one day---like majority of the naive ones did in ~2002 or so.Also, ``most active trader'' list means very little these days, as only ~20-30\% of the total volume goes through nyse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593163</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593419</id>
	<title>No, it belongs to the U.S. people</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246888980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Considering that they got about $13 billion of our taxpayer money as part of the AIG bailout, I'd say that software belongs in part to us too.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering that they got about $ 13 billion of our taxpayer money as part of the AIG bailout , I 'd say that software belongs in part to us too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering that they got about $13 billion of our taxpayer money as part of the AIG bailout, I'd say that software belongs in part to us too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593911</id>
	<title>Information wants to be free!</title>
	<author>jollyreaper</author>
	<datestamp>1246892040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it's wonderful that the code has been reintroduced to the wild. Looks like their captive breeding program has been quite a success!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's wonderful that the code has been reintroduced to the wild .
Looks like their captive breeding program has been quite a success !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's wonderful that the code has been reintroduced to the wild.
Looks like their captive breeding program has been quite a success!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28608517</id>
	<title>Mirror?</title>
	<author>mfh</author>
	<datestamp>1246982940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone got a mirror for that GSachs code? I need some jet fuel and a bunch of dolphin-safe tattoo ink. I need tattooed dolphins for my lagoon, inside my volcano hideaway -- and the stock market hasn't been helping this lair construction very much thanks to the competition and the high priced assassinations required to not lose everything I've worked so hard towards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone got a mirror for that GSachs code ?
I need some jet fuel and a bunch of dolphin-safe tattoo ink .
I need tattooed dolphins for my lagoon , inside my volcano hideaway -- and the stock market has n't been helping this lair construction very much thanks to the competition and the high priced assassinations required to not lose everything I 've worked so hard towards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone got a mirror for that GSachs code?
I need some jet fuel and a bunch of dolphin-safe tattoo ink.
I need tattooed dolphins for my lagoon, inside my volcano hideaway -- and the stock market hasn't been helping this lair construction very much thanks to the competition and the high priced assassinations required to not lose everything I've worked so hard towards.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594461</id>
	<title>Re:The code is worthless</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246895280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dammit!  They took it down because you posted the link!  Way to go, jerk.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dammit !
They took it down because you posted the link !
Way to go , jerk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dammit!
They took it down because you posted the link!
Way to go, jerk.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594643</id>
	<title>Re:Proving theft..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246896180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you had RTFA'd you might have gone to <a href="http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/07/is-case-of-quant-trading-industrial.html" title="blogspot.com">http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/07/is-case-of-quant-trading-industrial.html</a> [blogspot.com] and read the affidavit - <a href="http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/Complaint\_--\_Aleynikov.pdf" title="zerohedge.com">http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/Complaint\_--\_Aleynikov.pdf</a> [zerohedge.com], you would see that (a) they have proof that the file was transfered (b) they know *exactly* which server the files were uploaded to and (c) Sergey Aleynikov has already confessed to copying the files.</p><p><div class="quote"><p> Should be interesting to see how the police "generate" and prove the evidence on this one.</p> </div><p>It's all there in the affidavit.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you had RTFA 'd you might have gone to http : //zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/07/is-case-of-quant-trading-industrial.html [ blogspot.com ] and read the affidavit - http : //www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/Complaint \ _-- \ _Aleynikov.pdf [ zerohedge.com ] , you would see that ( a ) they have proof that the file was transfered ( b ) they know * exactly * which server the files were uploaded to and ( c ) Sergey Aleynikov has already confessed to copying the files .
Should be interesting to see how the police " generate " and prove the evidence on this one .
It 's all there in the affidavit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you had RTFA'd you might have gone to http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/07/is-case-of-quant-trading-industrial.html [blogspot.com] and read the affidavit - http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/Complaint\_--\_Aleynikov.pdf [zerohedge.com], you would see that (a) they have proof that the file was transfered (b) they know *exactly* which server the files were uploaded to and (c) Sergey Aleynikov has already confessed to copying the files.
Should be interesting to see how the police "generate" and prove the evidence on this one.
It's all there in the affidavit.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28598009</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>dave562</author>
	<datestamp>1246910580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What does Madoff have to do with Goldman Sachs or the rest of the industry?  His lack of ethics didn't have much of anything to do with trading on the stock market.  He ran a huge Ponzi scheme and completely falsified the results of his "investment strategy".  Goldman Sachs actually has an investment strategy, and they invest money in real securities.  Madoff did nothing of the sort.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What does Madoff have to do with Goldman Sachs or the rest of the industry ?
His lack of ethics did n't have much of anything to do with trading on the stock market .
He ran a huge Ponzi scheme and completely falsified the results of his " investment strategy " .
Goldman Sachs actually has an investment strategy , and they invest money in real securities .
Madoff did nothing of the sort .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What does Madoff have to do with Goldman Sachs or the rest of the industry?
His lack of ethics didn't have much of anything to do with trading on the stock market.
He ran a huge Ponzi scheme and completely falsified the results of his "investment strategy".
Goldman Sachs actually has an investment strategy, and they invest money in real securities.
Madoff did nothing of the sort.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593943</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593211</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>What if having the code allowed you to analyse it for ways to game the system?  Knowing precisely how the system will react in certain circumstances could give you a serious leg up when attacking the system on the markets (trade limitations, trend spotting for error codes or edge cases et al).<br> <br>

This code could be worth significant amounts of money on the international fraud market.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What if having the code allowed you to analyse it for ways to game the system ?
Knowing precisely how the system will react in certain circumstances could give you a serious leg up when attacking the system on the markets ( trade limitations , trend spotting for error codes or edge cases et al ) .
This code could be worth significant amounts of money on the international fraud market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if having the code allowed you to analyse it for ways to game the system?
Knowing precisely how the system will react in certain circumstances could give you a serious leg up when attacking the system on the markets (trade limitations, trend spotting for error codes or edge cases et al).
This code could be worth significant amounts of money on the international fraud market.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593155</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593293</id>
	<title>Non-story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246888020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GS's code for program trading is all written in a proprietary programming language called slang and relies on a proprietary database (secdb).</p><p>The install for that is a hell of a lot bigger than 32 MB, so this is probably just a few trading algorithms that a pissed-off developer has copied away.</p><p>It will be largely useless without the slang and secdb components and will be totally unsafe to trade off without a sufficient source of historic data and reference data, correctly formatted and loaded into secdb.</p><p>The idea that this leak is likely to be in any way materially damaging to GS is frankly a joke to anyone with even a passing knowledge of how these systems really operate.</p><p>But don't let that get in the way of your paranoia about how the world works.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GS 's code for program trading is all written in a proprietary programming language called slang and relies on a proprietary database ( secdb ) .The install for that is a hell of a lot bigger than 32 MB , so this is probably just a few trading algorithms that a pissed-off developer has copied away.It will be largely useless without the slang and secdb components and will be totally unsafe to trade off without a sufficient source of historic data and reference data , correctly formatted and loaded into secdb.The idea that this leak is likely to be in any way materially damaging to GS is frankly a joke to anyone with even a passing knowledge of how these systems really operate.But do n't let that get in the way of your paranoia about how the world works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GS's code for program trading is all written in a proprietary programming language called slang and relies on a proprietary database (secdb).The install for that is a hell of a lot bigger than 32 MB, so this is probably just a few trading algorithms that a pissed-off developer has copied away.It will be largely useless without the slang and secdb components and will be totally unsafe to trade off without a sufficient source of historic data and reference data, correctly formatted and loaded into secdb.The idea that this leak is likely to be in any way materially damaging to GS is frankly a joke to anyone with even a passing knowledge of how these systems really operate.But don't let that get in the way of your paranoia about how the world works.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594541</id>
	<title>Re:No one will touch that code.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246895640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The search is on for the other 5 dudes like us.</i></p><p>Get a room</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The search is on for the other 5 dudes like us.Get a room</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The search is on for the other 5 dudes like us.Get a room</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593815</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28597249</id>
	<title>Re:Disabling bash history logging</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246907460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I believe disabling bash's history logging into a file is as easy as typing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:</p><p>HISTFILE=</p><p>at the prompt. In other words, he was probably one command line away from being detected..</p></div><p>He should finish his session with &gt;kill -9 $$<br>This works unless they have smth. like PowerBroker</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe disabling bash 's history logging into a file is as easy as typing : HISTFILE = at the prompt .
In other words , he was probably one command line away from being detected..He should finish his session with &gt; kill -9 $ $ This works unless they have smth .
like PowerBroker</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe disabling bash's history logging into a file is as easy as typing :HISTFILE=at the prompt.
In other words, he was probably one command line away from being detected..He should finish his session with &gt;kill -9 $$This works unless they have smth.
like PowerBroker
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595119</id>
	<title>I have the code right here...</title>
	<author>Mister Whirly</author>
	<datestamp>1246898460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here is a copy of the code in it's entirety -<br> <br>
Buy Low<br>
Sell High</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here is a copy of the code in it 's entirety - Buy Low Sell High</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here is a copy of the code in it's entirety - 
Buy Low
Sell High</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594213</id>
	<title>Uh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246893780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Germany?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Germany ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Germany?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593977</id>
	<title>We'll save so much money by hiring Russian coders</title>
	<author>TheGrapeApe</author>
	<datestamp>1246892340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Flashback to a meeting with a bunch of douchebag MBAs 4 years ago at Goldman Sachs:
<br> <br>
MBA Dbag 1: "We'll save so much money by moving these coding jobs overseas to Russia!  American coders are getting too expensive!"
<br> <br>
MBA Dbag2:  "I don't see any drawbacks.  Let's do it.  As long as they can't outsource us playing phonetag and having meetings with each other all day, right?"</htmltext>
<tokenext>Flashback to a meeting with a bunch of douchebag MBAs 4 years ago at Goldman Sachs : MBA Dbag 1 : " We 'll save so much money by moving these coding jobs overseas to Russia !
American coders are getting too expensive !
" MBA Dbag2 : " I do n't see any drawbacks .
Let 's do it .
As long as they ca n't outsource us playing phonetag and having meetings with each other all day , right ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Flashback to a meeting with a bunch of douchebag MBAs 4 years ago at Goldman Sachs:
 
MBA Dbag 1: "We'll save so much money by moving these coding jobs overseas to Russia!
American coders are getting too expensive!
"
 
MBA Dbag2:  "I don't see any drawbacks.
Let's do it.
As long as they can't outsource us playing phonetag and having meetings with each other all day, right?
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593727</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246890960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe Goldman is worried that if someone reviews the code, they might be able to discover that Goldman is gaming the system and the source code is just the smoking gun.</p><p>Surely that would be a much bigger problem for Goldman Sachs than an individual or small groups trying (probably unsuccessfully) to game the market.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe Goldman is worried that if someone reviews the code , they might be able to discover that Goldman is gaming the system and the source code is just the smoking gun.Surely that would be a much bigger problem for Goldman Sachs than an individual or small groups trying ( probably unsuccessfully ) to game the market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe Goldman is worried that if someone reviews the code, they might be able to discover that Goldman is gaming the system and the source code is just the smoking gun.Surely that would be a much bigger problem for Goldman Sachs than an individual or small groups trying (probably unsuccessfully) to game the market.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593753</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246891080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, cool, another ex-strat weighing in.  Seen MAF around recently?</p><p>We're talking about PT code here, and although they use the train code to talk to the secservs, the really important stuff isn't written in slang.  And even if this is the slang bits, the code without the interpreter is cause enough for a Really Bad Day(tm).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , cool , another ex-strat weighing in .
Seen MAF around recently ? We 're talking about PT code here , and although they use the train code to talk to the secservs , the really important stuff is n't written in slang .
And even if this is the slang bits , the code without the interpreter is cause enough for a Really Bad Day ( tm ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, cool, another ex-strat weighing in.
Seen MAF around recently?We're talking about PT code here, and although they use the train code to talk to the secservs, the really important stuff isn't written in slang.
And even if this is the slang bits, the code without the interpreter is cause enough for a Really Bad Day(tm).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594927</id>
	<title>I don't even see source code anymore...</title>
	<author>kungfugleek</author>
	<datestamp>1246897740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>All I see now is: bond... stock... low-yield bank deposit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All I see now is : bond... stock... low-yield bank deposit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All I see now is: bond... stock... low-yield bank deposit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593153</id>
	<title>huh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh look: now they check FBIs intel on LinkedIn to see if they got it right.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh look : now they check FBIs intel on LinkedIn to see if they got it right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh look: now they check FBIs intel on LinkedIn to see if they got it right.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594517</id>
	<title>where are the 32MB of encrypted files</title>
	<author>furby076</author>
	<datestamp>1246895520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would say they are surfing in the cloud</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would say they are surfing in the cloud</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would say they are surfing in the cloud</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595047</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246898160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, but the root password list consists of having large numbers of government positions filled with former (and future) GS employees.</p><p>Hard to put that in a suitcase.</p><p>A lot of money was funneled to GS by Paulsen (a GS alumni) and some of their major competitors were crippled.</p><p>Recently close to 40\% of NYSE volume was GS which gives them enormous power to manipulate prices.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , but the root password list consists of having large numbers of government positions filled with former ( and future ) GS employees.Hard to put that in a suitcase.A lot of money was funneled to GS by Paulsen ( a GS alumni ) and some of their major competitors were crippled.Recently close to 40 \ % of NYSE volume was GS which gives them enormous power to manipulate prices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, but the root password list consists of having large numbers of government positions filled with former (and future) GS employees.Hard to put that in a suitcase.A lot of money was funneled to GS by Paulsen (a GS alumni) and some of their major competitors were crippled.Recently close to 40\% of NYSE volume was GS which gives them enormous power to manipulate prices.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593155</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593453</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>192939495969798999</author>
	<datestamp>1246889220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Based on what the markets have been up to, I'd say this code has been out there and has been actively exploited for at least 18 months.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Based on what the markets have been up to , I 'd say this code has been out there and has been actively exploited for at least 18 months .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Based on what the markets have been up to, I'd say this code has been out there and has been actively exploited for at least 18 months.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593943</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1246892220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Someone already HAD the source code - the people who wrote it. It would have been just as easy for them to abuse it. If you want to talk to me about how ethical these people are, two words: Bernie Madhoff.</p><p>The code should be open source. That way nobody has an edge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Someone already HAD the source code - the people who wrote it .
It would have been just as easy for them to abuse it .
If you want to talk to me about how ethical these people are , two words : Bernie Madhoff.The code should be open source .
That way nobody has an edge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Someone already HAD the source code - the people who wrote it.
It would have been just as easy for them to abuse it.
If you want to talk to me about how ethical these people are, two words: Bernie Madhoff.The code should be open source.
That way nobody has an edge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28596137</id>
	<title>Why valuable?</title>
	<author>daem0n1x</author>
	<datestamp>1246902960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why is it so valuable? It most likely takes decisions based on random distributions. I can do that, too. Can I get a 100 million bonus?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is it so valuable ?
It most likely takes decisions based on random distributions .
I can do that , too .
Can I get a 100 million bonus ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is it so valuable?
It most likely takes decisions based on random distributions.
I can do that, too.
Can I get a 100 million bonus?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595023</id>
	<title>Re:No one will touch that code.</title>
	<author>Algan</author>
	<datestamp>1246898100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The code itself is not a big deal, the trading strategy behind it is. A competitor would be able to know in advance how Goldman Sachs' trading systems will respond to any given situation so will be able to adjust its strategy to counteract GS's.  Given the fast pace of real time trading and the volume that GS does, this could lead to immense losses pretty quickly. Which is why GS probably had to shut down or alter their real time trading system already. Even if no outsiders have actually seen that code, it would be irresponsible for GS not to take action... which means that either way, they're screwed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The code itself is not a big deal , the trading strategy behind it is .
A competitor would be able to know in advance how Goldman Sachs ' trading systems will respond to any given situation so will be able to adjust its strategy to counteract GS 's .
Given the fast pace of real time trading and the volume that GS does , this could lead to immense losses pretty quickly .
Which is why GS probably had to shut down or alter their real time trading system already .
Even if no outsiders have actually seen that code , it would be irresponsible for GS not to take action... which means that either way , they 're screwed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The code itself is not a big deal, the trading strategy behind it is.
A competitor would be able to know in advance how Goldman Sachs' trading systems will respond to any given situation so will be able to adjust its strategy to counteract GS's.
Given the fast pace of real time trading and the volume that GS does, this could lead to immense losses pretty quickly.
Which is why GS probably had to shut down or alter their real time trading system already.
Even if no outsiders have actually seen that code, it would be irresponsible for GS not to take action... which means that either way, they're screwed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593255</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594015</id>
	<title>a convenient fire</title>
	<author>rs232</author>
	<datestamp>1246892520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>'This week's NYSE Program Trading report was very odd<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. what was shocking was the <a href="http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/07/is-case-of-quant-trading-industrial.html\%7C" title="blogspot.com">disappearance</a> [blogspot.com] of the #1 mainstay of complete trading domination (i.e., Goldman Sachs) from not just the aforementioned #1 spot, but the entire complete list. In other words: <strong>Goldman went from 1st to N/A in one week</strong>'<br> <br>

US v Sergey Aleynikov, Violations of 18 U.S.C $$ 1832(a) (2), 2314, &amp; 2<br> <br>

"ALEYNIKOV claimed, however, that he only intended to collect "open source" files on which he had worked, but later realized he had obtained more files than he intended. ALEYNIKOV aslo admitted that he has uploaded files from his work desktop from home. ALEYNIKOV claimed he did not distribute any of the proprietary software that he obtained from the Financial Institution, and further claimed that he has abided by an agreement he entered into with his new employer not to use any unlicensed software"</htmltext>
<tokenext>'This week 's NYSE Program Trading report was very odd .. what was shocking was the disappearance [ blogspot.com ] of the # 1 mainstay of complete trading domination ( i.e. , Goldman Sachs ) from not just the aforementioned # 1 spot , but the entire complete list .
In other words : Goldman went from 1st to N/A in one week ' US v Sergey Aleynikov , Violations of 18 U.S.C $ $ 1832 ( a ) ( 2 ) , 2314 , &amp; 2 " ALEYNIKOV claimed , however , that he only intended to collect " open source " files on which he had worked , but later realized he had obtained more files than he intended .
ALEYNIKOV aslo admitted that he has uploaded files from his work desktop from home .
ALEYNIKOV claimed he did not distribute any of the proprietary software that he obtained from the Financial Institution , and further claimed that he has abided by an agreement he entered into with his new employer not to use any unlicensed software "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'This week's NYSE Program Trading report was very odd .. what was shocking was the disappearance [blogspot.com] of the #1 mainstay of complete trading domination (i.e., Goldman Sachs) from not just the aforementioned #1 spot, but the entire complete list.
In other words: Goldman went from 1st to N/A in one week' 

US v Sergey Aleynikov, Violations of 18 U.S.C $$ 1832(a) (2), 2314, &amp; 2 

"ALEYNIKOV claimed, however, that he only intended to collect "open source" files on which he had worked, but later realized he had obtained more files than he intended.
ALEYNIKOV aslo admitted that he has uploaded files from his work desktop from home.
ALEYNIKOV claimed he did not distribute any of the proprietary software that he obtained from the Financial Institution, and further claimed that he has abided by an agreement he entered into with his new employer not to use any unlicensed software"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593995</id>
	<title>Re:Looks like he skipped the Unix classes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246892400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The FBI article points to bash history as a piece of evidence.</p><p>It doesn't say if anything else was used internally to find the breach which also would have recorded, oh I don't know, keystroke history.  That seems like something that is shell history" and "can't delete" (if kept off server) and something that the probably wouldn't want to leak out as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The FBI article points to bash history as a piece of evidence.It does n't say if anything else was used internally to find the breach which also would have recorded , oh I do n't know , keystroke history .
That seems like something that is shell history " and " ca n't delete " ( if kept off server ) and something that the probably would n't want to leak out as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The FBI article points to bash history as a piece of evidence.It doesn't say if anything else was used internally to find the breach which also would have recorded, oh I don't know, keystroke history.
That seems like something that is shell history" and "can't delete" (if kept off server) and something that the probably wouldn't want to leak out as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593575</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28603291</id>
	<title>Re:huh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246895820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i think this is hilarious (as usual). You should have a blog or something where you post all of these stories. They're awesome!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i think this is hilarious ( as usual ) .
You should have a blog or something where you post all of these stories .
They 're awesome !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i think this is hilarious (as usual).
You should have a blog or something where you post all of these stories.
They're awesome!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593495</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593529</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>infolation</author>
	<datestamp>1246889580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The online gambling industry analyzes the games made on their system against games played by known gambling software to identify players cheating.<br> <br>

Perhaps GS haven't immediately stopped real-time trading using their existing system because they're able to analyze trades made by other brokerages to identify patterns that would indicate whether their own trading system is being used by others.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The online gambling industry analyzes the games made on their system against games played by known gambling software to identify players cheating .
Perhaps GS have n't immediately stopped real-time trading using their existing system because they 're able to analyze trades made by other brokerages to identify patterns that would indicate whether their own trading system is being used by others .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The online gambling industry analyzes the games made on their system against games played by known gambling software to identify players cheating.
Perhaps GS haven't immediately stopped real-time trading using their existing system because they're able to analyze trades made by other brokerages to identify patterns that would indicate whether their own trading system is being used by others.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593233</id>
	<title>Re:Even More Interesting</title>
	<author>MichaelSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1246887780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>After all, if he could remove all copies of the code from GS how could they take people to court over the code without a local copy to prove ownership?</p></div><p>I don't see how a developer could possibly do that. They must have backups all over the place. Certainly the BOFH could corrupt the backups, but Aleynikov isn't the BOFH.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>After all , if he could remove all copies of the code from GS how could they take people to court over the code without a local copy to prove ownership ? I do n't see how a developer could possibly do that .
They must have backups all over the place .
Certainly the BOFH could corrupt the backups , but Aleynikov is n't the BOFH .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After all, if he could remove all copies of the code from GS how could they take people to court over the code without a local copy to prove ownership?I don't see how a developer could possibly do that.
They must have backups all over the place.
Certainly the BOFH could corrupt the backups, but Aleynikov isn't the BOFH.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593163</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28596699</id>
	<title>Re:Proving theft..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246905120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good lord... even the fucking summary says that he uploaded it to a German server.  So obviously they know where it has gone.</p><p>Mod parent down: -1, didn't read anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good lord... even the fucking summary says that he uploaded it to a German server .
So obviously they know where it has gone.Mod parent down : -1 , did n't read anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good lord... even the fucking summary says that he uploaded it to a German server.
So obviously they know where it has gone.Mod parent down: -1, didn't read anything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593555</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>dkleinsc</author>
	<datestamp>1246889820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Be fair: Goldman Sachs has way more control over government policies than a mere root password would give them. They don't just have root passwords, they have root passwords, physical access, and insider support.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Be fair : Goldman Sachs has way more control over government policies than a mere root password would give them .
They do n't just have root passwords , they have root passwords , physical access , and insider support .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Be fair: Goldman Sachs has way more control over government policies than a mere root password would give them.
They don't just have root passwords, they have root passwords, physical access, and insider support.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593155</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595587</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246900680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>their algorithm (and everyone's ``unique-super-secret-algo we-keep-under-lock-and-key''):</p><p>Rolling N seconds [n usually being 5 to 20 seconds]: if price is greater than rolling M*sd, [M is usually 2] then sell, if price is less than rolling -M*sd then buy. Yep. That's it.</p><p>Cleverness is with doing this efficiently (using 2nd - 1st moment squared to get sd, etc. [you'd be surprised how many folks can't calculate sd right]) and with N, M values [simulations against historical find N, M that maximize profit---against historical data].</p><p>Yes, they're all based on this. They could be rolling candles, calculating momentum, regressing the derivative, etc., all based on N seconds, and all some M units away (ie: functionally equivalent).</p><p>And of course you can do the reverse (of trying to benefit when the above algo goes wrong---such as reversing buy/sell decision, with different N, M values---like buy when stock seems to be going up, etc.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>their algorithm ( and everyone 's ` ` unique-super-secret-algo we-keep-under-lock-and-key' ' ) : Rolling N seconds [ n usually being 5 to 20 seconds ] : if price is greater than rolling M * sd , [ M is usually 2 ] then sell , if price is less than rolling -M * sd then buy .
Yep. That 's it.Cleverness is with doing this efficiently ( using 2nd - 1st moment squared to get sd , etc .
[ you 'd be surprised how many folks ca n't calculate sd right ] ) and with N , M values [ simulations against historical find N , M that maximize profit---against historical data ] .Yes , they 're all based on this .
They could be rolling candles , calculating momentum , regressing the derivative , etc. , all based on N seconds , and all some M units away ( ie : functionally equivalent ) .And of course you can do the reverse ( of trying to benefit when the above algo goes wrong---such as reversing buy/sell decision , with different N , M values---like buy when stock seems to be going up , etc .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>their algorithm (and everyone's ``unique-super-secret-algo we-keep-under-lock-and-key''):Rolling N seconds [n usually being 5 to 20 seconds]: if price is greater than rolling M*sd, [M is usually 2] then sell, if price is less than rolling -M*sd then buy.
Yep. That's it.Cleverness is with doing this efficiently (using 2nd - 1st moment squared to get sd, etc.
[you'd be surprised how many folks can't calculate sd right]) and with N, M values [simulations against historical find N, M that maximize profit---against historical data].Yes, they're all based on this.
They could be rolling candles, calculating momentum, regressing the derivative, etc., all based on N seconds, and all some M units away (ie: functionally equivalent).And of course you can do the reverse (of trying to benefit when the above algo goes wrong---such as reversing buy/sell decision, with different N, M values---like buy when stock seems to be going up, etc.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593531</id>
	<title>What's the exit strategy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246889580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I were a rival to Goldman Sachs I would be terrified of someone offering me Goldman's source code. If I use it and Goldman find out then I'm in a world of trouble. If I use it but Goldman don't know for a bit AND the person who offered it knows I used it, then they can blackmail me. Even if I don't use it there could be expensive legal battles to prove my innocence ("Exhibit A shows the same loop variable counter is used in these two different source code bases." "?!"). How do I know it's not a trap? It would be like someone offering the secret of Coke to Pepsi - what do you expect Pepsi to do? Use the secret? What if they like their product more?</p><p>Obviously there must be another angle if this situation is true to drive someone to actually do it. I just can't figure it out at the moment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I were a rival to Goldman Sachs I would be terrified of someone offering me Goldman 's source code .
If I use it and Goldman find out then I 'm in a world of trouble .
If I use it but Goldman do n't know for a bit AND the person who offered it knows I used it , then they can blackmail me .
Even if I do n't use it there could be expensive legal battles to prove my innocence ( " Exhibit A shows the same loop variable counter is used in these two different source code bases .
" " ? ! " ) .
How do I know it 's not a trap ?
It would be like someone offering the secret of Coke to Pepsi - what do you expect Pepsi to do ?
Use the secret ?
What if they like their product more ? Obviously there must be another angle if this situation is true to drive someone to actually do it .
I just ca n't figure it out at the moment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I were a rival to Goldman Sachs I would be terrified of someone offering me Goldman's source code.
If I use it and Goldman find out then I'm in a world of trouble.
If I use it but Goldman don't know for a bit AND the person who offered it knows I used it, then they can blackmail me.
Even if I don't use it there could be expensive legal battles to prove my innocence ("Exhibit A shows the same loop variable counter is used in these two different source code bases.
" "?!").
How do I know it's not a trap?
It would be like someone offering the secret of Coke to Pepsi - what do you expect Pepsi to do?
Use the secret?
What if they like their product more?Obviously there must be another angle if this situation is true to drive someone to actually do it.
I just can't figure it out at the moment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593999</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246892400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Specifically, if you can second guess their pricing model, you can spot arbitrage opportunities where you can automatically buy/sell to Goldman Sachs.  This is why algorithmic trading code is such a closely guarded strategic secret,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Specifically , if you can second guess their pricing model , you can spot arbitrage opportunities where you can automatically buy/sell to Goldman Sachs .
This is why algorithmic trading code is such a closely guarded strategic secret,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Specifically, if you can second guess their pricing model, you can spot arbitrage opportunities where you can automatically buy/sell to Goldman Sachs.
This is why algorithmic trading code is such a closely guarded strategic secret,</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593387</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>A beautiful mind</author>
	<datestamp>1246888740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Excellent! If knowing the source code for \_financial trading mechanisms\_ allows for gaming the system, then it's a very good thing that the code was exposed. If anything, I'd expect banking code to resist outside intrusion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Excellent !
If knowing the source code for \ _financial trading mechanisms \ _ allows for gaming the system , then it 's a very good thing that the code was exposed .
If anything , I 'd expect banking code to resist outside intrusion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Excellent!
If knowing the source code for \_financial trading mechanisms\_ allows for gaming the system, then it's a very good thing that the code was exposed.
If anything, I'd expect banking code to resist outside intrusion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594249</id>
	<title>Re:No, it belongs to the U.S. people</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246893960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Goldman is one of the banks that recently paid that back, with interest.</p><p>A related aside though... do you use credit cards? have a car loan or mortgage loan? If so (or just imagine you did), would you consider yourself to be "owned" by those entities to whom you owed money to?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Goldman is one of the banks that recently paid that back , with interest.A related aside though... do you use credit cards ?
have a car loan or mortgage loan ?
If so ( or just imagine you did ) , would you consider yourself to be " owned " by those entities to whom you owed money to ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Goldman is one of the banks that recently paid that back, with interest.A related aside though... do you use credit cards?
have a car loan or mortgage loan?
If so (or just imagine you did), would you consider yourself to be "owned" by those entities to whom you owed money to?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594211</id>
	<title>Disabling bash history logging</title>
	<author>guacamole</author>
	<datestamp>1246893780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe disabling bash's history logging into a file is as easy as typing :</p><p>HISTFILE=</p><p>at the prompt. In other words, he was probably one command line away from being detected..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe disabling bash 's history logging into a file is as easy as typing : HISTFILE = at the prompt .
In other words , he was probably one command line away from being detected. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe disabling bash's history logging into a file is as easy as typing :HISTFILE=at the prompt.
In other words, he was probably one command line away from being detected..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595153</id>
	<title>Re:Disabling bash history logging</title>
	<author>wvmarle</author>
	<datestamp>1246898580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You are assuming stock bash. It is of course quite trivial (as suggested also in TFA) to change bash's history behaviour and have the details not just written to the file given in $HISTFILE but (also) silently to some remote history file, potentially on a remote server. Just to add a little more monitoring to people that deal with high value stuff.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are assuming stock bash .
It is of course quite trivial ( as suggested also in TFA ) to change bash 's history behaviour and have the details not just written to the file given in $ HISTFILE but ( also ) silently to some remote history file , potentially on a remote server .
Just to add a little more monitoring to people that deal with high value stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are assuming stock bash.
It is of course quite trivial (as suggested also in TFA) to change bash's history behaviour and have the details not just written to the file given in $HISTFILE but (also) silently to some remote history file, potentially on a remote server.
Just to add a little more monitoring to people that deal with high value stuff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593811</id>
	<title>So the question, where are the 32MB of encrypted f</title>
	<author>ChoboMog</author>
	<datestamp>1246891440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So the question, where are the 32MB of encrypted files that Sergey uploaded to a German server?</p></div><p>Rapidshare?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So the question , where are the 32MB of encrypted files that Sergey uploaded to a German server ? Rapidshare ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So the question, where are the 32MB of encrypted files that Sergey uploaded to a German server?Rapidshare?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593693</id>
	<title>Re:Proving theft..</title>
	<author>japhering</author>
	<datestamp>1246890660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>So how will they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that some actual theft has gone on?</p></div></blockquote><p>If GS has any brains, they don't go after him in criminal court they go after him in civil court, where the statndard is the preponderance of evidence and then attach anything any everything that in his name to pay off the billions of dollars they will get from the jury.</p><p>All the while waiting on the feds to figure out how to nail him in criminal court, after all international spying is federal jurisdiction</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So how will they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that some actual theft has gone on ? If GS has any brains , they do n't go after him in criminal court they go after him in civil court , where the statndard is the preponderance of evidence and then attach anything any everything that in his name to pay off the billions of dollars they will get from the jury.All the while waiting on the feds to figure out how to nail him in criminal court , after all international spying is federal jurisdiction</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So how will they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that some actual theft has gone on?If GS has any brains, they don't go after him in criminal court they go after him in civil court, where the statndard is the preponderance of evidence and then attach anything any everything that in his name to pay off the billions of dollars they will get from the jury.All the while waiting on the feds to figure out how to nail him in criminal court, after all international spying is federal jurisdiction
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28599659</id>
	<title>Re:The code is worthless</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246874460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Damn it. Slashdotted!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Damn it .
Slashdotted !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damn it.
Slashdotted!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594189</id>
	<title>Re:Proving theft..</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1246893660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>C'mon, it's anything but hard to prove that something "wrong" has been going on unless their security department deserves being fired for gross negligence.</p><p>First, tarball. He created one? Was he responsible for backups, was he responsible for updates, for distribution, for anything that would justify making a tarball out of code? If not, first alarm bell that should have rang.</p><p>Second, transfer. 32MB of source ain't something you trivially and routinely ship about, unless you have reason to. Did he have any good reason to transfer those 32ish MBs of data? I worked for a long time in a high security financial company, and a transfer of 32MB required more than just a nod from IT. Granted, that was in 2000, times have changed. But someone who has access to highly critical code should definitly be under better surveillance.</p><p>So was he? If so, it should be trivial to find out that he did it. Was he not? It should be trivial to grab the CISO at his ankles and shake him for every cent he's worth, he duely deserves it in that case.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>C'mon , it 's anything but hard to prove that something " wrong " has been going on unless their security department deserves being fired for gross negligence.First , tarball .
He created one ?
Was he responsible for backups , was he responsible for updates , for distribution , for anything that would justify making a tarball out of code ?
If not , first alarm bell that should have rang.Second , transfer .
32MB of source ai n't something you trivially and routinely ship about , unless you have reason to .
Did he have any good reason to transfer those 32ish MBs of data ?
I worked for a long time in a high security financial company , and a transfer of 32MB required more than just a nod from IT .
Granted , that was in 2000 , times have changed .
But someone who has access to highly critical code should definitly be under better surveillance.So was he ?
If so , it should be trivial to find out that he did it .
Was he not ?
It should be trivial to grab the CISO at his ankles and shake him for every cent he 's worth , he duely deserves it in that case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>C'mon, it's anything but hard to prove that something "wrong" has been going on unless their security department deserves being fired for gross negligence.First, tarball.
He created one?
Was he responsible for backups, was he responsible for updates, for distribution, for anything that would justify making a tarball out of code?
If not, first alarm bell that should have rang.Second, transfer.
32MB of source ain't something you trivially and routinely ship about, unless you have reason to.
Did he have any good reason to transfer those 32ish MBs of data?
I worked for a long time in a high security financial company, and a transfer of 32MB required more than just a nod from IT.
Granted, that was in 2000, times have changed.
But someone who has access to highly critical code should definitly be under better surveillance.So was he?
If so, it should be trivial to find out that he did it.
Was he not?
It should be trivial to grab the CISO at his ankles and shake him for every cent he's worth, he duely deserves it in that case.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594135</id>
	<title>Nice!</title>
	<author>Exitar</author>
	<datestamp>1246893240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now I can download their system with bittorrent and become billionaire in seconds!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now I can download their system with bittorrent and become billionaire in seconds !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now I can download their system with bittorrent and become billionaire in seconds!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594365</id>
	<title>Re:Alternative theory....(and more probable)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246894680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GS uses an Event Data Warehouse tool to capture and report on the logs from their enterprise assets and applications.  This behavior was captured and reported upon as a part of both their normal SOX compliance auditing as well as exception alerting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GS uses an Event Data Warehouse tool to capture and report on the logs from their enterprise assets and applications .
This behavior was captured and reported upon as a part of both their normal SOX compliance auditing as well as exception alerting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GS uses an Event Data Warehouse tool to capture and report on the logs from their enterprise assets and applications.
This behavior was captured and reported upon as a part of both their normal SOX compliance auditing as well as exception alerting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593241</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594515</id>
	<title>Re:I can't believe.</title>
	<author>C\_Kode</author>
	<datestamp>1246895520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anything editable by the user is unacceptable.  I work in the financial district as an Infrastructure Engineer.  Instant messages are a big channel of communications between traders and brokers.  If the IMs are stored on a users local machine they are pretty much useless in court.  You need a external IM logger of sort.  Since bash history is editable by a user, it's useless in court.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anything editable by the user is unacceptable .
I work in the financial district as an Infrastructure Engineer .
Instant messages are a big channel of communications between traders and brokers .
If the IMs are stored on a users local machine they are pretty much useless in court .
You need a external IM logger of sort .
Since bash history is editable by a user , it 's useless in court .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anything editable by the user is unacceptable.
I work in the financial district as an Infrastructure Engineer.
Instant messages are a big channel of communications between traders and brokers.
If the IMs are stored on a users local machine they are pretty much useless in court.
You need a external IM logger of sort.
Since bash history is editable by a user, it's useless in court.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594153</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593805</id>
	<title>Re:Looks like he skipped the Unix classes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246891440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>HISTSIZE=0</p><p>Instant private shell session.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>HISTSIZE = 0Instant private shell session .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HISTSIZE=0Instant private shell session.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593575</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28597377</id>
	<title>How much is already available publicly</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246907940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One of the interesting parts of the book "My Life as a Quant" by <a href="http://www.ederman.com/" title="ederman.com" rel="nofollow">Emanuel Derman</a> [ederman.com] was the part where he compares the culture at Goldman to the culture at Soloman.  He basically says that when it would come time to publish financial models, theories, etc., at Goldman there was relatively little obfuscation compared to other firms.  I wonder how much of the theory is already publicly available, just not in code form.  Between the two, I would think the models/theory are the much more valuable part, but depending upon the quality of the code, it may not be that easy to understand what they were doing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the interesting parts of the book " My Life as a Quant " by Emanuel Derman [ ederman.com ] was the part where he compares the culture at Goldman to the culture at Soloman .
He basically says that when it would come time to publish financial models , theories , etc. , at Goldman there was relatively little obfuscation compared to other firms .
I wonder how much of the theory is already publicly available , just not in code form .
Between the two , I would think the models/theory are the much more valuable part , but depending upon the quality of the code , it may not be that easy to understand what they were doing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the interesting parts of the book "My Life as a Quant" by Emanuel Derman [ederman.com] was the part where he compares the culture at Goldman to the culture at Soloman.
He basically says that when it would come time to publish financial models, theories, etc., at Goldman there was relatively little obfuscation compared to other firms.
I wonder how much of the theory is already publicly available, just not in code form.
Between the two, I would think the models/theory are the much more valuable part, but depending upon the quality of the code, it may not be that easy to understand what they were doing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594333</id>
	<title>I reverse engineered the GS trading algorithm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246894500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Based on the <a href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/28816321/the\_great\_american\_bubble\_machine" title="rollingstone.com" rel="nofollow">Rolling Stones article</a> [rollingstone.com] I was able to reverse engineer the core Goldman Sachs trading algorithm:<br>
<br>
#include <br>
int main( int argc, const char* argv[] )<br>
{<br>
	pump();<br>
	dump();<br>
}</htmltext>
<tokenext>Based on the Rolling Stones article [ rollingstone.com ] I was able to reverse engineer the core Goldman Sachs trading algorithm : # include int main ( int argc , const char * argv [ ] ) { pump ( ) ; dump ( ) ; }</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Based on the Rolling Stones article [rollingstone.com] I was able to reverse engineer the core Goldman Sachs trading algorithm:

#include 
int main( int argc, const char* argv[] )
{
	pump();
	dump();
}</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595537</id>
	<title>Re:No one will touch that code.</title>
	<author>Missing\_dc</author>
	<datestamp>1246900500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If your code is anything like your english, it must take forever to interpret.</p><p>Maybe you should flowchart or use a debugger before posting.</p><p>I mean, wow, I can see where your thoughts are going, but parsing your post generated a ton of syntax errors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If your code is anything like your english , it must take forever to interpret.Maybe you should flowchart or use a debugger before posting.I mean , wow , I can see where your thoughts are going , but parsing your post generated a ton of syntax errors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your code is anything like your english, it must take forever to interpret.Maybe you should flowchart or use a debugger before posting.I mean, wow, I can see where your thoughts are going, but parsing your post generated a ton of syntax errors.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593255</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28600527</id>
	<title>Re:Disabling bash history logging</title>
	<author>TheoMurpse</author>
	<datestamp>1246878840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And I suspect you are aware of this trick, but none of the sysadmins at GS are aware of this trick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I suspect you are aware of this trick , but none of the sysadmins at GS are aware of this trick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I suspect you are aware of this trick, but none of the sysadmins at GS are aware of this trick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593241</id>
	<title>Alternative theory....(and more probable)</title>
	<author>tacokill</author>
	<datestamp>1246887780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>...or, perhaps last week was a short trading week which cut into the already-low trading volume.   Did you by chance compare the overall volume levels when you came up with your theory?
<br>
<br>
I am betting you didn't because if you had, you'd see that the volume last week was <b>way</b> lower than the norm.
<br>
<br>
More likely, lots of GS traders just took the week off and went on vacation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...or , perhaps last week was a short trading week which cut into the already-low trading volume .
Did you by chance compare the overall volume levels when you came up with your theory ?
I am betting you did n't because if you had , you 'd see that the volume last week was way lower than the norm .
More likely , lots of GS traders just took the week off and went on vacation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...or, perhaps last week was a short trading week which cut into the already-low trading volume.
Did you by chance compare the overall volume levels when you came up with your theory?
I am betting you didn't because if you had, you'd see that the volume last week was way lower than the norm.
More likely, lots of GS traders just took the week off and went on vacation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593163</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28600497</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246878660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Excellent! If knowing the source code for \_financial trading mechanisms\_ allows for gaming the system, then it's a very good thing that the code was exposed. If anything, I'd expect banking code to resist outside intrusion.</p></div><p>This isn't even an issue of fraud or gaming the system. IF you know Goldman's current holdings, and the market conditions, you know how they will react to fluctuations. For example, you could predict ahead of time when certain thresholds are met that triggers their software to buy or sell a stock in large quantities.</p><p>You probably couldn't do a whole lot of illegal stuff with it, but it would allow you, in the right situtation, to leverage your own investments based on what they will do in the future.</p><p>It's almost like being able to predict the future... in the right scenario. For example, if you see a trend and know that their software is going to dump a huge pile of company X's stock, you could place a bet against that companies stock dropping, with a very high chance of being correct. There are plenty of other scenarios, but to sum it up, it's like being able to read the mind of the GS's own stock brokers in a short-term scenario. The poker analogies are very close to how you could take advantage of such a system. Luck still rules the day, but a little inside knowledge tells you when it's a good idea to take the risk, or just get out while the getting is good.</p><p>The biggest threat to GS from this, is not small traders, but competitors who can use the knowledge in some cases to out-trade GS.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Excellent !
If knowing the source code for \ _financial trading mechanisms \ _ allows for gaming the system , then it 's a very good thing that the code was exposed .
If anything , I 'd expect banking code to resist outside intrusion.This is n't even an issue of fraud or gaming the system .
IF you know Goldman 's current holdings , and the market conditions , you know how they will react to fluctuations .
For example , you could predict ahead of time when certain thresholds are met that triggers their software to buy or sell a stock in large quantities.You probably could n't do a whole lot of illegal stuff with it , but it would allow you , in the right situtation , to leverage your own investments based on what they will do in the future.It 's almost like being able to predict the future... in the right scenario .
For example , if you see a trend and know that their software is going to dump a huge pile of company X 's stock , you could place a bet against that companies stock dropping , with a very high chance of being correct .
There are plenty of other scenarios , but to sum it up , it 's like being able to read the mind of the GS 's own stock brokers in a short-term scenario .
The poker analogies are very close to how you could take advantage of such a system .
Luck still rules the day , but a little inside knowledge tells you when it 's a good idea to take the risk , or just get out while the getting is good.The biggest threat to GS from this , is not small traders , but competitors who can use the knowledge in some cases to out-trade GS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Excellent!
If knowing the source code for \_financial trading mechanisms\_ allows for gaming the system, then it's a very good thing that the code was exposed.
If anything, I'd expect banking code to resist outside intrusion.This isn't even an issue of fraud or gaming the system.
IF you know Goldman's current holdings, and the market conditions, you know how they will react to fluctuations.
For example, you could predict ahead of time when certain thresholds are met that triggers their software to buy or sell a stock in large quantities.You probably couldn't do a whole lot of illegal stuff with it, but it would allow you, in the right situtation, to leverage your own investments based on what they will do in the future.It's almost like being able to predict the future... in the right scenario.
For example, if you see a trend and know that their software is going to dump a huge pile of company X's stock, you could place a bet against that companies stock dropping, with a very high chance of being correct.
There are plenty of other scenarios, but to sum it up, it's like being able to read the mind of the GS's own stock brokers in a short-term scenario.
The poker analogies are very close to how you could take advantage of such a system.
Luck still rules the day, but a little inside knowledge tells you when it's a good idea to take the risk, or just get out while the getting is good.The biggest threat to GS from this, is not small traders, but competitors who can use the knowledge in some cases to out-trade GS.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593219</id>
	<title>Re:Even More Interesting</title>
	<author>dr.newton</author>
	<datestamp>1246887660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems unlikely to me that any single person, or even small group of people, would have the capability to remove all copies of this code, binary and source, from the company's information infrastructure.</p><p>Is it possible that they have suspended use of this code because they fear that someone analyzing it could profit from the trades it would have made?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems unlikely to me that any single person , or even small group of people , would have the capability to remove all copies of this code , binary and source , from the company 's information infrastructure.Is it possible that they have suspended use of this code because they fear that someone analyzing it could profit from the trades it would have made ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems unlikely to me that any single person, or even small group of people, would have the capability to remove all copies of this code, binary and source, from the company's information infrastructure.Is it possible that they have suspended use of this code because they fear that someone analyzing it could profit from the trades it would have made?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593163</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593255</id>
	<title>No one will touch that code.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Probably people that would do something similar, will never touch that code, for fear of be "tainted".</p><p>And anyway..  most code create new stuff that is worthy a patent. But not because most programmers are genius, but because the patent system is crap.  No one sould care about what is on that code, because any professional can recreate the code anyway with the same features.  There are not "sacred" code in this world.   More the other stuff... Is really hard to make other people look at your code. The bussines type of guys dont want to look at your code. The users don't want to look at your code. Often, others programmers don't want to look at your code.  Maybe is more valuable and interesting the features, and the documentation, the analysys of the problem, than the fucking source code.  I do like to read source code, but I am one in a million (of programmers) and theres probably around 7 million programmers, so probably theres only another 7 dudes like me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-I</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably people that would do something similar , will never touch that code , for fear of be " tainted " .And anyway.. most code create new stuff that is worthy a patent .
But not because most programmers are genius , but because the patent system is crap .
No one sould care about what is on that code , because any professional can recreate the code anyway with the same features .
There are not " sacred " code in this world .
More the other stuff... Is really hard to make other people look at your code .
The bussines type of guys dont want to look at your code .
The users do n't want to look at your code .
Often , others programmers do n't want to look at your code .
Maybe is more valuable and interesting the features , and the documentation , the analysys of the problem , than the fucking source code .
I do like to read source code , but I am one in a million ( of programmers ) and theres probably around 7 million programmers , so probably theres only another 7 dudes like me : -I</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably people that would do something similar, will never touch that code, for fear of be "tainted".And anyway..  most code create new stuff that is worthy a patent.
But not because most programmers are genius, but because the patent system is crap.
No one sould care about what is on that code, because any professional can recreate the code anyway with the same features.
There are not "sacred" code in this world.
More the other stuff... Is really hard to make other people look at your code.
The bussines type of guys dont want to look at your code.
The users don't want to look at your code.
Often, others programmers don't want to look at your code.
Maybe is more valuable and interesting the features, and the documentation, the analysys of the problem, than the fucking source code.
I do like to read source code, but I am one in a million (of programmers) and theres probably around 7 million programmers, so probably theres only another 7 dudes like me :-I</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28596599</id>
	<title>What's the difference?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246904700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A measly 32MB of code leaked, which could have valuable algorithms.</p><p>A ex-employee walks over to bank B on promise of $$$ and has all the algorithms in his head.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A measly 32MB of code leaked , which could have valuable algorithms.A ex-employee walks over to bank B on promise of $ $ $ and has all the algorithms in his head .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A measly 32MB of code leaked, which could have valuable algorithms.A ex-employee walks over to bank B on promise of $$$ and has all the algorithms in his head.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593395</id>
	<title>"codes"?</title>
	<author>zarkill</author>
	<datestamp>1246888740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The article keeps referring to what was stolen as "codes". Does that mean "source code" or are they talking about some kind of access codes or authentication keys or something, like the way people call their bank PIN their "secret code" ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The article keeps referring to what was stolen as " codes " .
Does that mean " source code " or are they talking about some kind of access codes or authentication keys or something , like the way people call their bank PIN their " secret code " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article keeps referring to what was stolen as "codes".
Does that mean "source code" or are they talking about some kind of access codes or authentication keys or something, like the way people call their bank PIN their "secret code" ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594781</id>
	<title>Government Sachs?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246896900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cry me a river.  Their "secret" is not their trading programs, it's their revolving door with governments and total regulatory capture.  Is it just coincidence some years ago their CEO was leading the charge to "deregulate" so that Goldman Sachs could raise leverage limits to insane danger levels?  Then years later the same man (Hank Paulson) is the Treasury chief issuing bailouts to his own company?  Who give a hoot about the code?  But yeah code is meant to be free, so if it's out there then good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cry me a river .
Their " secret " is not their trading programs , it 's their revolving door with governments and total regulatory capture .
Is it just coincidence some years ago their CEO was leading the charge to " deregulate " so that Goldman Sachs could raise leverage limits to insane danger levels ?
Then years later the same man ( Hank Paulson ) is the Treasury chief issuing bailouts to his own company ?
Who give a hoot about the code ?
But yeah code is meant to be free , so if it 's out there then good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cry me a river.
Their "secret" is not their trading programs, it's their revolving door with governments and total regulatory capture.
Is it just coincidence some years ago their CEO was leading the charge to "deregulate" so that Goldman Sachs could raise leverage limits to insane danger levels?
Then years later the same man (Hank Paulson) is the Treasury chief issuing bailouts to his own company?
Who give a hoot about the code?
But yeah code is meant to be free, so if it's out there then good.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593231</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm trying to figure out the value in it at all, by itself or to another trading platform...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm trying to figure out the value in it at all , by itself or to another trading platform.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm trying to figure out the value in it at all, by itself or to another trading platform...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593155</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28596575</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>nacturation</author>
	<datestamp>1246904520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The code should be open source. That way nobody has an edge.</p></div><p>Why not just take all the money in the system and distribute it to each citizen equally?  That way, we won't have different classes of people and one comrade will not have a financial edge over another.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The code should be open source .
That way nobody has an edge.Why not just take all the money in the system and distribute it to each citizen equally ?
That way , we wo n't have different classes of people and one comrade will not have a financial edge over another .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The code should be open source.
That way nobody has an edge.Why not just take all the money in the system and distribute it to each citizen equally?
That way, we won't have different classes of people and one comrade will not have a financial edge over another.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593943</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593553</id>
	<title>GS Runs Linux.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246889760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just notice the sentence with the word bash. I'm sure Goldman Sachs runs Linux. Take that M$! You are your<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET, C# stinking attitude!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just notice the sentence with the word bash .
I 'm sure Goldman Sachs runs Linux .
Take that M $ !
You are your .NET , C # stinking attitude !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just notice the sentence with the word bash.
I'm sure Goldman Sachs runs Linux.
Take that M$!
You are your .NET, C# stinking attitude!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593417</id>
	<title>The code is worthless</title>
	<author>lxs</author>
	<datestamp>1246888980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Without the login codes to <a href="https://www.illuminati-hq.org/financialserver/tomorrows-stockprices.php" title="illuminati-hq.org">https://www.illuminati-hq.org/financialserver/tomorrows-stockprices.php</a> [illuminati-hq.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Without the login codes to https : //www.illuminati-hq.org/financialserver/tomorrows-stockprices.php [ illuminati-hq.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Without the login codes to https://www.illuminati-hq.org/financialserver/tomorrows-stockprices.php [illuminati-hq.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594233</id>
	<title>Re:No one will touch that code.</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1246893840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The code itself is most likely very trivial. What the code does is anything but that. That code is not about the next great thing in how to implement a square root in only 5 cycles or how to search faster than binary. The programming is most likely dull like a lecture from your programming 101 teacher.</p><p>The interesting part is what the code does. Sure, it would be "nicer" if you could instead read an abstract or white paper telling you, but you don't have that. Instead, you have the code.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The code itself is most likely very trivial .
What the code does is anything but that .
That code is not about the next great thing in how to implement a square root in only 5 cycles or how to search faster than binary .
The programming is most likely dull like a lecture from your programming 101 teacher.The interesting part is what the code does .
Sure , it would be " nicer " if you could instead read an abstract or white paper telling you , but you do n't have that .
Instead , you have the code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The code itself is most likely very trivial.
What the code does is anything but that.
That code is not about the next great thing in how to implement a square root in only 5 cycles or how to search faster than binary.
The programming is most likely dull like a lecture from your programming 101 teacher.The interesting part is what the code does.
Sure, it would be "nicer" if you could instead read an abstract or white paper telling you, but you don't have that.
Instead, you have the code.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593255</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28597675</id>
	<title>Re:Even More Interesting</title>
	<author>sgt\_doom</author>
	<datestamp>1246908960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"..is it possible he completely hobbled GS to please his new employer?</i> <p>The problem with making suggestions, without the proper background information, renders said suggestions <b>nonsensical</b>!  GS can now be fully exposed with the mass speculation they are guilty of when there exists <b>duplicate trading platform code out there</b> - period - end of story!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" ..is it possible he completely hobbled GS to please his new employer ?
The problem with making suggestions , without the proper background information , renders said suggestions nonsensical !
GS can now be fully exposed with the mass speculation they are guilty of when there exists duplicate trading platform code out there - period - end of story !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"..is it possible he completely hobbled GS to please his new employer?
The problem with making suggestions, without the proper background information, renders said suggestions nonsensical!
GS can now be fully exposed with the mass speculation they are guilty of when there exists duplicate trading platform code out there - period - end of story!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593163</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594855</id>
	<title>Is this valuable</title>
	<author>tthomas48</author>
	<datestamp>1246897380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is this valuable because they paid too much for it, or because it was heavily involved in putting our economy in the tank and they would prefer that the world not see what the bubble was based on, lest their be lawsuits?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this valuable because they paid too much for it , or because it was heavily involved in putting our economy in the tank and they would prefer that the world not see what the bubble was based on , lest their be lawsuits ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this valuable because they paid too much for it, or because it was heavily involved in putting our economy in the tank and they would prefer that the world not see what the bubble was based on, lest their be lawsuits?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594387</id>
	<title>Bash is responsible for it.</title>
	<author>140Mandak262Jamuna</author>
	<datestamp>1246894860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Had it been Vista, this guy would have been busted long back by, "You are trying to steal the valuable source code from your employer. Cancel or allow?" dialog.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Had it been Vista , this guy would have been busted long back by , " You are trying to steal the valuable source code from your employer .
Cancel or allow ?
" dialog .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Had it been Vista, this guy would have been busted long back by, "You are trying to steal the valuable source code from your employer.
Cancel or allow?
" dialog.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594319</id>
	<title>H1 Visa's</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246894380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is this an argument against H1 Visa's?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this an argument against H1 Visa 's ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this an argument against H1 Visa's?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593827</id>
	<title>Re:What's the exit strategy?</title>
	<author>The\_mad\_linguist</author>
	<datestamp>1246891560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, Pepsi and Coke know each other's formulas.  Have since the early nineteen hundreds.  There's nothing really secret about the formula, it's just that people who prefer one to the other are already entrenched with marketing, and there isn't any incentive to switch brands on something that is exactly identical.  As long as they've got slightly different tastes, they don't have to get into a price war.</p><p>Oh, and the KFC "secret blend of eleven herbs and spices"?  All marketing.  All that they really use is flour, salt, and MSG.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , Pepsi and Coke know each other 's formulas .
Have since the early nineteen hundreds .
There 's nothing really secret about the formula , it 's just that people who prefer one to the other are already entrenched with marketing , and there is n't any incentive to switch brands on something that is exactly identical .
As long as they 've got slightly different tastes , they do n't have to get into a price war.Oh , and the KFC " secret blend of eleven herbs and spices " ?
All marketing .
All that they really use is flour , salt , and MSG .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, Pepsi and Coke know each other's formulas.
Have since the early nineteen hundreds.
There's nothing really secret about the formula, it's just that people who prefer one to the other are already entrenched with marketing, and there isn't any incentive to switch brands on something that is exactly identical.
As long as they've got slightly different tastes, they don't have to get into a price war.Oh, and the KFC "secret blend of eleven herbs and spices"?
All marketing.
All that they really use is flour, salt, and MSG.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28595263</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>anonieuweling</author>
	<datestamp>1246899120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Banks OWN the governments.<br>
Especially in the USA for the next few years if the people do nothing and remain apathetic.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Banks OWN the governments .
Especially in the USA for the next few years if the people do nothing and remain apathetic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Banks OWN the governments.
Especially in the USA for the next few years if the people do nothing and remain apathetic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593155</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594417</id>
	<title>This has been modded funny...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246894980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...but I guess it's "laughing at" rather than "laughing with"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...but I guess it 's " laughing at " rather than " laughing with "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...but I guess it's "laughing at" rather than "laughing with"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593255</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28603903</id>
	<title>Me, I'd rather know...</title>
	<author>ibsteve2u</author>
	<datestamp>1246900680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>....not the source code, but the triggering events and the nature of all inputs.  I'm more curious to know if the source code is really just one big bloat that only serves to cover GS themselves' gaming of the system.</htmltext>
<tokenext>....not the source code , but the triggering events and the nature of all inputs .
I 'm more curious to know if the source code is really just one big bloat that only serves to cover GS themselves ' gaming of the system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>....not the source code, but the triggering events and the nature of all inputs.
I'm more curious to know if the source code is really just one big bloat that only serves to cover GS themselves' gaming of the system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593163</id>
	<title>Even More Interesting</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>

Even more interesting is in the second article that notifies us that Goldman Sachs has been removed from the NYSE 15 Most Active Members Firms Weekly Report.  GS had been #1 the week before and now they're not even on it.  These fifteen firms alone represent about 98\% of all trades with the NYSE.  So what happened?  <br> <br>

The author mentions some things but gives no clear motivation for GS hiding their stats.  I would speculate that if one of your developers copied your code and uploaded it to a server discretely, you could have that in your logs and not notice it for days or weeks.  But if he then did something to your system to ensure his new employer's ownership of that code you wuold notice that pretty damn fast I imagine.  Sergey Aleynikov sounds like a brilliant coder but maybe he's not so smart on legal issues, is it possible he completely hobbled GS to please his new employer?  Are they keeping their transaction report hush hush so investers don't worry?  Was Sergey Aleynikov thinking he could sell the code and the rights to the code?  After all, if he could remove all copies of the code from GS how could they take people to court over the code without a local copy to prove ownership?  <br> <br>

If GS remained #1, they would have left themselves on the list.  I presume that something else related to this has gone wrong with their operation, the news just hasn't broke yet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even more interesting is in the second article that notifies us that Goldman Sachs has been removed from the NYSE 15 Most Active Members Firms Weekly Report .
GS had been # 1 the week before and now they 're not even on it .
These fifteen firms alone represent about 98 \ % of all trades with the NYSE .
So what happened ?
The author mentions some things but gives no clear motivation for GS hiding their stats .
I would speculate that if one of your developers copied your code and uploaded it to a server discretely , you could have that in your logs and not notice it for days or weeks .
But if he then did something to your system to ensure his new employer 's ownership of that code you wuold notice that pretty damn fast I imagine .
Sergey Aleynikov sounds like a brilliant coder but maybe he 's not so smart on legal issues , is it possible he completely hobbled GS to please his new employer ?
Are they keeping their transaction report hush hush so investers do n't worry ?
Was Sergey Aleynikov thinking he could sell the code and the rights to the code ?
After all , if he could remove all copies of the code from GS how could they take people to court over the code without a local copy to prove ownership ?
If GS remained # 1 , they would have left themselves on the list .
I presume that something else related to this has gone wrong with their operation , the news just has n't broke yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>

Even more interesting is in the second article that notifies us that Goldman Sachs has been removed from the NYSE 15 Most Active Members Firms Weekly Report.
GS had been #1 the week before and now they're not even on it.
These fifteen firms alone represent about 98\% of all trades with the NYSE.
So what happened?
The author mentions some things but gives no clear motivation for GS hiding their stats.
I would speculate that if one of your developers copied your code and uploaded it to a server discretely, you could have that in your logs and not notice it for days or weeks.
But if he then did something to your system to ensure his new employer's ownership of that code you wuold notice that pretty damn fast I imagine.
Sergey Aleynikov sounds like a brilliant coder but maybe he's not so smart on legal issues, is it possible he completely hobbled GS to please his new employer?
Are they keeping their transaction report hush hush so investers don't worry?
Was Sergey Aleynikov thinking he could sell the code and the rights to the code?
After all, if he could remove all copies of the code from GS how could they take people to court over the code without a local copy to prove ownership?
If GS remained #1, they would have left themselves on the list.
I presume that something else related to this has gone wrong with their operation, the news just hasn't broke yet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28598023</id>
	<title>Uses Neural Networks ?</title>
	<author>cpu\_fusion</author>
	<datestamp>1246910640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Found a post on ACM by someone with same name as the accused.  Looked like a person with research background in Neural Networks.  No idea if it is the same person, but it would be intriguing to me if Goldman Sachs was using neural networks for trading.</p><p>One interesting facet:  if two or more counterparties in a market had neural networks that were trained to coordinate and cooperate in ways that would violate trading rules (e.g. like bridge players sharing info through actions), would the company be liable if the neural networks had developed these exchanges by themselves?  In other words, would it be an instrumentality for violating the law if it learned, on its own, to violate the law, and the programmers / administrators "had no idea" it was doing that?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Found a post on ACM by someone with same name as the accused .
Looked like a person with research background in Neural Networks .
No idea if it is the same person , but it would be intriguing to me if Goldman Sachs was using neural networks for trading.One interesting facet : if two or more counterparties in a market had neural networks that were trained to coordinate and cooperate in ways that would violate trading rules ( e.g .
like bridge players sharing info through actions ) , would the company be liable if the neural networks had developed these exchanges by themselves ?
In other words , would it be an instrumentality for violating the law if it learned , on its own , to violate the law , and the programmers / administrators " had no idea " it was doing that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Found a post on ACM by someone with same name as the accused.
Looked like a person with research background in Neural Networks.
No idea if it is the same person, but it would be intriguing to me if Goldman Sachs was using neural networks for trading.One interesting facet:  if two or more counterparties in a market had neural networks that were trained to coordinate and cooperate in ways that would violate trading rules (e.g.
like bridge players sharing info through actions), would the company be liable if the neural networks had developed these exchanges by themselves?
In other words, would it be an instrumentality for violating the law if it learned, on its own, to violate the law, and the programmers / administrators "had no idea" it was doing that?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594749</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>networkconsultant</author>
	<datestamp>1246896720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Internaiontal fraud market - don't you mean Archipelago or Brut?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Internaiontal fraud market - do n't you mean Archipelago or Brut ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Internaiontal fraud market - don't you mean Archipelago or Brut?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28597059</id>
	<title>Re:I can't believe.</title>
	<author>nacturation</author>
	<datestamp>1246906560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A record of your actions can't be used against you?  That would make video cameras useless as evidence since it records your own actions and would constitute testimony against you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A record of your actions ca n't be used against you ?
That would make video cameras useless as evidence since it records your own actions and would constitute testimony against you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A record of your actions can't be used against you?
That would make video cameras useless as evidence since it records your own actions and would constitute testimony against you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594153</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593897</id>
	<title>Re:What's the exit strategy?</title>
	<author>zarkill</author>
	<datestamp>1246891980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It would be like someone offering the secret of Coke to Pepsi - what do you expect Pepsi to do?</p> </div><p>that very thing happened a few years ago - <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5152740.stm" title="bbc.co.uk">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5152740.stm</a> [bbc.co.uk]
</p><p>
pepsi declined the offer and reported it as a theft of trade secrets.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It would be like someone offering the secret of Coke to Pepsi - what do you expect Pepsi to do ?
that very thing happened a few years ago - http : //news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5152740.stm [ bbc.co.uk ] pepsi declined the offer and reported it as a theft of trade secrets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would be like someone offering the secret of Coke to Pepsi - what do you expect Pepsi to do?
that very thing happened a few years ago - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5152740.stm [bbc.co.uk]

pepsi declined the offer and reported it as a theft of trade secrets.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593919</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>anothy</author>
	<datestamp>1246892040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>i have a somewhat-better-than-passing knowledge of how these systems work. i'm very unconvinced by your explanation.<br> <br>you seem to be assuming the intent would be to out-compete Goldman by re-implementing this system, perhaps with some changes/optimizations. for that, sure, you'd need the rest of the environment. but a good understanding of the algorithm and implementation could be obtained without the rest of the environment (like i can read C# code and extract the algorithms without having the rest of the environment). that seems like it would be enough to game Goldman's system (which is a sizable part of the system overall).<br> <br>note that i am not asserting that this is a catastrophe for Goldman, just that your explanation isn't convincing. i will, however, agree with a previous poster that Goldman's sudden absence from NYSE's <a href="http://www.nyse.com/press/12\_2009.html" title="nyse.com">15 most active members</a> [nyse.com], rather than being #1 as they had for a good while, is very suspicious.</htmltext>
<tokenext>i have a somewhat-better-than-passing knowledge of how these systems work .
i 'm very unconvinced by your explanation .
you seem to be assuming the intent would be to out-compete Goldman by re-implementing this system , perhaps with some changes/optimizations .
for that , sure , you 'd need the rest of the environment .
but a good understanding of the algorithm and implementation could be obtained without the rest of the environment ( like i can read C # code and extract the algorithms without having the rest of the environment ) .
that seems like it would be enough to game Goldman 's system ( which is a sizable part of the system overall ) .
note that i am not asserting that this is a catastrophe for Goldman , just that your explanation is n't convincing .
i will , however , agree with a previous poster that Goldman 's sudden absence from NYSE 's 15 most active members [ nyse.com ] , rather than being # 1 as they had for a good while , is very suspicious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i have a somewhat-better-than-passing knowledge of how these systems work.
i'm very unconvinced by your explanation.
you seem to be assuming the intent would be to out-compete Goldman by re-implementing this system, perhaps with some changes/optimizations.
for that, sure, you'd need the rest of the environment.
but a good understanding of the algorithm and implementation could be obtained without the rest of the environment (like i can read C# code and extract the algorithms without having the rest of the environment).
that seems like it would be enough to game Goldman's system (which is a sizable part of the system overall).
note that i am not asserting that this is a catastrophe for Goldman, just that your explanation isn't convincing.
i will, however, agree with a previous poster that Goldman's sudden absence from NYSE's 15 most active members [nyse.com], rather than being #1 as they had for a good while, is very suspicious.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593575</id>
	<title>Looks like he skipped the Unix classes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246889880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><tt>$ sftp &amp;&amp; kill -9 `/sbin/pidof `/bin/basename $SHELL``</tt></p><p>Unless the shell is modified to append commands to the history file *before* executing them (as far as I know, no shell does that out of the box), or the system is hardened (exec() logging etc.), this will take care of any history logs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>$ sftp &amp;&amp; kill -9 ` /sbin/pidof ` /bin/basename $ SHELL ` ` Unless the shell is modified to append commands to the history file * before * executing them ( as far as I know , no shell does that out of the box ) , or the system is hardened ( exec ( ) logging etc .
) , this will take care of any history logs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>$ sftp &amp;&amp; kill -9 `/sbin/pidof `/bin/basename $SHELL``Unless the shell is modified to append commands to the history file *before* executing them (as far as I know, no shell does that out of the box), or the system is hardened (exec() logging etc.
), this will take care of any history logs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593719</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>MadFarmAnimalz</author>
	<datestamp>1246890840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>It will be largely useless without the slang and secdb components</i>
<p>
If you didn't have a python/java/$LANGUAGE interpreter and no python/java/$LANGUAGE documentation you'd probably still be able to glean the logic and algorithms from the code. The trade secret is the algorithms not the computer instructions representing them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It will be largely useless without the slang and secdb components If you did n't have a python/java/ $ LANGUAGE interpreter and no python/java/ $ LANGUAGE documentation you 'd probably still be able to glean the logic and algorithms from the code .
The trade secret is the algorithms not the computer instructions representing them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It will be largely useless without the slang and secdb components

If you didn't have a python/java/$LANGUAGE interpreter and no python/java/$LANGUAGE documentation you'd probably still be able to glean the logic and algorithms from the code.
The trade secret is the algorithms not the computer instructions representing them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593393</id>
	<title>Re:Surely not?</title>
	<author>Steauengeglase</author>
	<datestamp>1246888740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This may end up being pretty damned interesting. GS has a long history of market manipulation from insider trading to installing plants in the media through subsidiaries who appear and disappear over-night to gaming IPOs to make sure the right people get a payday (ie. Yang and Yahoo). Though I wouldn't hold my breath, stacking the deck against suckers is generally "nothing to see here" issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This may end up being pretty damned interesting .
GS has a long history of market manipulation from insider trading to installing plants in the media through subsidiaries who appear and disappear over-night to gaming IPOs to make sure the right people get a payday ( ie .
Yang and Yahoo ) .
Though I would n't hold my breath , stacking the deck against suckers is generally " nothing to see here " issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This may end up being pretty damned interesting.
GS has a long history of market manipulation from insider trading to installing plants in the media through subsidiaries who appear and disappear over-night to gaming IPOs to make sure the right people get a payday (ie.
Yang and Yahoo).
Though I wouldn't hold my breath, stacking the deck against suckers is generally "nothing to see here" issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593155</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593841</id>
	<title>Re:The code is worthless</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246891740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's an old link.  The Illuminati have merged with <a href="http://www.bilderberg.org/" title="bilderberg.org" rel="nofollow">Bilderberg</a> [bilderberg.org].  Ignore all the conspiracy theory shit.  That's just to make you think you're not on the real Bilderberg site.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's an old link .
The Illuminati have merged with Bilderberg [ bilderberg.org ] .
Ignore all the conspiracy theory shit .
That 's just to make you think you 're not on the real Bilderberg site .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's an old link.
The Illuminati have merged with Bilderberg [bilderberg.org].
Ignore all the conspiracy theory shit.
That's just to make you think you're not on the real Bilderberg site.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28594739</id>
	<title>Re:Non-story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246896720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you didn't have a python/java/$LANGUAGE interpreter and no python/java/$LANGUAGE documentation you'd probably still be able to glean the logic and algorithms from the code</p></div><p>But you have to undestand that this is written in slang. There's no way for an average citizen to dechyper code like : "rebizzle the zizzle if the stizzle reaches the quarizzle"<br>Now, you could of cause hire a rapper to translate it back to plain english but since they already have most of the cash in the world you probably couldn't lure them away from the bare-breasted-women pool parties they're always having.</p><p>- Peder</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you did n't have a python/java/ $ LANGUAGE interpreter and no python/java/ $ LANGUAGE documentation you 'd probably still be able to glean the logic and algorithms from the codeBut you have to undestand that this is written in slang .
There 's no way for an average citizen to dechyper code like : " rebizzle the zizzle if the stizzle reaches the quarizzle " Now , you could of cause hire a rapper to translate it back to plain english but since they already have most of the cash in the world you probably could n't lure them away from the bare-breasted-women pool parties they 're always having.- Peder</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you didn't have a python/java/$LANGUAGE interpreter and no python/java/$LANGUAGE documentation you'd probably still be able to glean the logic and algorithms from the codeBut you have to undestand that this is written in slang.
There's no way for an average citizen to dechyper code like : "rebizzle the zizzle if the stizzle reaches the quarizzle"Now, you could of cause hire a rapper to translate it back to plain english but since they already have most of the cash in the world you probably couldn't lure them away from the bare-breasted-women pool parties they're always having.- Peder
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_0353217.28593429</id>
	<title>From the summary:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246889040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The world's most valuable source code could be in the wild."</p><p>Duke Nukem Forever?  Oh joy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The world 's most valuable source code could be in the wild .
" Duke Nukem Forever ?
Oh joy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The world's most valuable source code could be in the wild.
"Duke Nukem Forever?
Oh joy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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