<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_30_1917212</id>
	<title>Ranchers Have Beef With USDA Program To ID Cattle</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1246355820000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://poncacityweloveyou.com/" rel="nofollow">Ponca City, We Love You</a> writes <i>"The NY Times reports that farmers and ranchers oppose a <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/us/28livestock.html">government program to identify livestock with microchip tags</a> that would allow the computerized recording of livestock movements from birth to the slaughterhouse. Proponents of the <a href="http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/">USDA's National Animal Identification System</a> say that computer records of cattle movements mean that when a cow is discovered with bovine tuberculosis or mad cow disease, its prior contacts can be swiftly traced. Ranchers say the extra cost of the electronic tags places an onerous burden on a teetering industry. Small groups of cattle are often rounded up in distant spots and herded into a truck by a single person who could not simultaneously wield the hand-held scanner needed to record individual animal identities. The ranchers also note that there is no Internet connection on many ranches for filing to a regional database. 'Lobbyists from corporate mega-agribusiness designed this program to destroy traditional small sustainable agriculture,' says Genell Pridgen, an owner of Rainbow Meadow Farms. The notion of centralized data banks, even for animals, has also <a href="http://www.lpmo.org/media/releases/2009/PR-20090606-01.shtml">set off alarms among libertarians who oppose NAIS</a>. One group has issued a bumper sticker that reads, 'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.' 'They can't comprehend the vastness of a ranch like this,' says Jay Platt, the third-generation owner of a 22,000 acre New Mexico ranch. 'This plan is expensive, it's intrusive, and there's no need for it.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ponca City , We Love You writes " The NY Times reports that farmers and ranchers oppose a government program to identify livestock with microchip tags that would allow the computerized recording of livestock movements from birth to the slaughterhouse .
Proponents of the USDA 's National Animal Identification System say that computer records of cattle movements mean that when a cow is discovered with bovine tuberculosis or mad cow disease , its prior contacts can be swiftly traced .
Ranchers say the extra cost of the electronic tags places an onerous burden on a teetering industry .
Small groups of cattle are often rounded up in distant spots and herded into a truck by a single person who could not simultaneously wield the hand-held scanner needed to record individual animal identities .
The ranchers also note that there is no Internet connection on many ranches for filing to a regional database .
'Lobbyists from corporate mega-agribusiness designed this program to destroy traditional small sustainable agriculture, ' says Genell Pridgen , an owner of Rainbow Meadow Farms .
The notion of centralized data banks , even for animals , has also set off alarms among libertarians who oppose NAIS .
One group has issued a bumper sticker that reads , 'Tracking cattle now , tracking you soon .
' 'They ca n't comprehend the vastness of a ranch like this, ' says Jay Platt , the third-generation owner of a 22,000 acre New Mexico ranch .
'This plan is expensive , it 's intrusive , and there 's no need for it .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ponca City, We Love You writes "The NY Times reports that farmers and ranchers oppose a government program to identify livestock with microchip tags that would allow the computerized recording of livestock movements from birth to the slaughterhouse.
Proponents of the USDA's National Animal Identification System say that computer records of cattle movements mean that when a cow is discovered with bovine tuberculosis or mad cow disease, its prior contacts can be swiftly traced.
Ranchers say the extra cost of the electronic tags places an onerous burden on a teetering industry.
Small groups of cattle are often rounded up in distant spots and herded into a truck by a single person who could not simultaneously wield the hand-held scanner needed to record individual animal identities.
The ranchers also note that there is no Internet connection on many ranches for filing to a regional database.
'Lobbyists from corporate mega-agribusiness designed this program to destroy traditional small sustainable agriculture,' says Genell Pridgen, an owner of Rainbow Meadow Farms.
The notion of centralized data banks, even for animals, has also set off alarms among libertarians who oppose NAIS.
One group has issued a bumper sticker that reads, 'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.
' 'They can't comprehend the vastness of a ranch like this,' says Jay Platt, the third-generation owner of a 22,000 acre New Mexico ranch.
'This plan is expensive, it's intrusive, and there's no need for it.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536453</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1246365120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you go into town, ever? upload then.<br>Use a dial up from your home. Local library, gas station. There are all kinds of ways to upload this data.<br>Hell, put it on floppy and mail it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you go into town , ever ?
upload then.Use a dial up from your home .
Local library , gas station .
There are all kinds of ways to upload this data.Hell , put it on floppy and mail it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you go into town, ever?
upload then.Use a dial up from your home.
Local library, gas station.
There are all kinds of ways to upload this data.Hell, put it on floppy and mail it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535747</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28542469</id>
	<title>Detailed disease tracking?</title>
	<author>mattr</author>
	<datestamp>1246463760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some years ago I met a Canadian company that makes tracking stations that go along with RFID tags and you track disease through the cattle herd on a per animal basis, all the way to after slaughtered and the meat is closely examined. Also they made a cool gadget with a needle to stick in a pig (live I believe) for similar kind of tracking.</p><p>Basically this guy told me everyone is just waiting for the other shoe to drop (a la BSE) in the U.S. because of the horrible unregulated state of the herds and the strong meat processing lobby or whatever it is. This is a guy who has tried for years to sell tracking systems to the U.S. and lots of places but only the U.S. never wanted it. Perhaps things have changed slightly since then (maybe 5 years ago) but probably not at all. It makes me think U.S. beef is much more dangerous than people think which is scary to me being American. Of course living in Japan I also remember when Japan halted all beef imports, and how the U.S. suppliers kept shipping spinal cords etc. along in the same batch against the rules. Harsh to say it but all this makes the U.S. food supply sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.</p><p>I have no idea if this has anything to do with the story, hopefully it will just provide an anecdotal counterbias to the meat lobby spin, the dept of agriculture spin and the large corporate farm spin and the tiny farm spin.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some years ago I met a Canadian company that makes tracking stations that go along with RFID tags and you track disease through the cattle herd on a per animal basis , all the way to after slaughtered and the meat is closely examined .
Also they made a cool gadget with a needle to stick in a pig ( live I believe ) for similar kind of tracking.Basically this guy told me everyone is just waiting for the other shoe to drop ( a la BSE ) in the U.S. because of the horrible unregulated state of the herds and the strong meat processing lobby or whatever it is .
This is a guy who has tried for years to sell tracking systems to the U.S. and lots of places but only the U.S. never wanted it .
Perhaps things have changed slightly since then ( maybe 5 years ago ) but probably not at all .
It makes me think U.S. beef is much more dangerous than people think which is scary to me being American .
Of course living in Japan I also remember when Japan halted all beef imports , and how the U.S. suppliers kept shipping spinal cords etc .
along in the same batch against the rules .
Harsh to say it but all this makes the U.S. food supply sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.I have no idea if this has anything to do with the story , hopefully it will just provide an anecdotal counterbias to the meat lobby spin , the dept of agriculture spin and the large corporate farm spin and the tiny farm spin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some years ago I met a Canadian company that makes tracking stations that go along with RFID tags and you track disease through the cattle herd on a per animal basis, all the way to after slaughtered and the meat is closely examined.
Also they made a cool gadget with a needle to stick in a pig (live I believe) for similar kind of tracking.Basically this guy told me everyone is just waiting for the other shoe to drop (a la BSE) in the U.S. because of the horrible unregulated state of the herds and the strong meat processing lobby or whatever it is.
This is a guy who has tried for years to sell tracking systems to the U.S. and lots of places but only the U.S. never wanted it.
Perhaps things have changed slightly since then (maybe 5 years ago) but probably not at all.
It makes me think U.S. beef is much more dangerous than people think which is scary to me being American.
Of course living in Japan I also remember when Japan halted all beef imports, and how the U.S. suppliers kept shipping spinal cords etc.
along in the same batch against the rules.
Harsh to say it but all this makes the U.S. food supply sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.I have no idea if this has anything to do with the story, hopefully it will just provide an anecdotal counterbias to the meat lobby spin, the dept of agriculture spin and the large corporate farm spin and the tiny farm spin.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537027</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246369020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ditto to that.  I tried to get my father to do this with his herd of several hundred.    There was not much point as he had their whole herd's biography memorized.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ditto to that .
I tried to get my father to do this with his herd of several hundred .
There was not much point as he had their whole herd 's biography memorized .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ditto to that.
I tried to get my father to do this with his herd of several hundred.
There was not much point as he had their whole herd's biography memorized.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536115</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>rubycodez</author>
	<datestamp>1246363380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>bullshit sob story.  I have plenty of relatives with livestock.  they all without exception have working POTS lines.  even at 14.4K the very minute amount of data to be uploaded would go in less than a minute.  internet for text is available everywhere, even on the lazy-R ranch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>bullshit sob story .
I have plenty of relatives with livestock .
they all without exception have working POTS lines .
even at 14.4K the very minute amount of data to be uploaded would go in less than a minute .
internet for text is available everywhere , even on the lazy-R ranch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>bullshit sob story.
I have plenty of relatives with livestock.
they all without exception have working POTS lines.
even at 14.4K the very minute amount of data to be uploaded would go in less than a minute.
internet for text is available everywhere, even on the lazy-R ranch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536961</id>
	<title>Re:Actual costs?</title>
	<author>hax4bux</author>
	<datestamp>1246368420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am at this very moment looking over my vast herd of 5 Dexters.</p><p>Although you mention many relevant items, I am unconvinced of your arguments.</p><p>Every *real* cowboy knows a $6 tag is a six pack of real goods, and therefore a poor trade.</p><p>See ya at the stockyards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am at this very moment looking over my vast herd of 5 Dexters.Although you mention many relevant items , I am unconvinced of your arguments.Every * real * cowboy knows a $ 6 tag is a six pack of real goods , and therefore a poor trade.See ya at the stockyards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am at this very moment looking over my vast herd of 5 Dexters.Although you mention many relevant items, I am unconvinced of your arguments.Every *real* cowboy knows a $6 tag is a six pack of real goods, and therefore a poor trade.See ya at the stockyards.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535749</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537127</id>
	<title>Re:Personally Speaking</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1246370040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The buy food from the vendors that have established safety procedures that satisfy you. Just because something's not mandated doesn't mean nobody will do it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The buy food from the vendors that have established safety procedures that satisfy you .
Just because something 's not mandated does n't mean nobody will do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The buy food from the vendors that have established safety procedures that satisfy you.
Just because something's not mandated doesn't mean nobody will do it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535503</id>
	<title>It also makes loss of cattle easy to track...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246360200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right now if a ranch has a serious infection they can quietly dispose of the corpses and obviously infected.  If there's a government database it becomes pretty obvious if way too few cattle make it to market from a ranch.</p><p>Also, it makes it obvious if someone tries to market a cow they didn't purchase, that perhaps strayed onto their land (it does happen, especially in areas with open grazing permits).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right now if a ranch has a serious infection they can quietly dispose of the corpses and obviously infected .
If there 's a government database it becomes pretty obvious if way too few cattle make it to market from a ranch.Also , it makes it obvious if someone tries to market a cow they did n't purchase , that perhaps strayed onto their land ( it does happen , especially in areas with open grazing permits ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right now if a ranch has a serious infection they can quietly dispose of the corpses and obviously infected.
If there's a government database it becomes pretty obvious if way too few cattle make it to market from a ranch.Also, it makes it obvious if someone tries to market a cow they didn't purchase, that perhaps strayed onto their land (it does happen, especially in areas with open grazing permits).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535957</id>
	<title>Computerworld version of the story</title>
	<author>e9th</author>
	<datestamp>1246362660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Last September, in <a href="http://blogs.computerworld.com/moo\_it\_from\_cow\_chips\_to\_rfid\_chips" title="computerworld.com" rel="nofollow">Moo IT</a> [computerworld.com] Computerworld had a slightly less paranoid version of this story.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Last September , in Moo IT [ computerworld.com ] Computerworld had a slightly less paranoid version of this story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last September, in Moo IT [computerworld.com] Computerworld had a slightly less paranoid version of this story.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536125</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246363440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; My next question is are we going to demand this for all IMPORTERS of beef or is this a burden that only good 'ol U.S. Ranchers are going to have to bear?</p><p>As you wish.  http://www.mla.com.au/TopicHierarchy/IndustryPrograms/NationalLivestockIdentificationSystem/default.htm</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; My next question is are we going to demand this for all IMPORTERS of beef or is this a burden that only good 'ol U.S. Ranchers are going to have to bear ? As you wish .
http : //www.mla.com.au/TopicHierarchy/IndustryPrograms/NationalLivestockIdentificationSystem/default.htm</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; My next question is are we going to demand this for all IMPORTERS of beef or is this a burden that only good 'ol U.S. Ranchers are going to have to bear?As you wish.
http://www.mla.com.au/TopicHierarchy/IndustryPrograms/NationalLivestockIdentificationSystem/default.htm</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538153</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>twostix</author>
	<datestamp>1246378380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The worst and most stupid thing about this is that BSE and 99.9\% of the diseased meat COMES from feedlots.</p><p>So in order to fix the problem of diseased feedlot meat, people here want to enact legislation to run old school farmers off the land - ENSURING THAT 100\% of their meat will come from feedlots.</p><p>Talk about self destructive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The worst and most stupid thing about this is that BSE and 99.9 \ % of the diseased meat COMES from feedlots.So in order to fix the problem of diseased feedlot meat , people here want to enact legislation to run old school farmers off the land - ENSURING THAT 100 \ % of their meat will come from feedlots.Talk about self destructive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The worst and most stupid thing about this is that BSE and 99.9\% of the diseased meat COMES from feedlots.So in order to fix the problem of diseased feedlot meat, people here want to enact legislation to run old school farmers off the land - ENSURING THAT 100\% of their meat will come from feedlots.Talk about self destructive.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536791</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246367040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>My point is this, don't automatically assume an Internet connection is convenient or even available.</p></div><p>Don't need one. The scanner can save to an SD or CF card, and when you deliver your cattle you also deliver the card. The data is saved to a file (that's perhaps checksummed and/or digitally signed by a key that's saved in the reader itself), and that file is used for inventory and invoicing.</p><p>If you're deliver 24 cattle, make sure there were 24 unique IDs that were picked by the reader. The purchaser would use their own scanner to make sure the tags on the cattle they're receiving match the tags on the seller's card.</p><p>If you standardize the protocol (PCL ?), you could have the scanners have USB connections so that you could hook them up to a printer and print a paper copy of the information for individuals that prefer paper (or do both for redundancy).</p><p>If you need weekly inventories you can have files time-stamped and digitally signed (HMAC?) so you can tell if they've been tampered. Time can be received from GPS or via WWVB. You can then deliver those signed files once hypothetical snow storm is done and be fairly confident that they weren't tampered with.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My point is this , do n't automatically assume an Internet connection is convenient or even available.Do n't need one .
The scanner can save to an SD or CF card , and when you deliver your cattle you also deliver the card .
The data is saved to a file ( that 's perhaps checksummed and/or digitally signed by a key that 's saved in the reader itself ) , and that file is used for inventory and invoicing.If you 're deliver 24 cattle , make sure there were 24 unique IDs that were picked by the reader .
The purchaser would use their own scanner to make sure the tags on the cattle they 're receiving match the tags on the seller 's card.If you standardize the protocol ( PCL ?
) , you could have the scanners have USB connections so that you could hook them up to a printer and print a paper copy of the information for individuals that prefer paper ( or do both for redundancy ) .If you need weekly inventories you can have files time-stamped and digitally signed ( HMAC ?
) so you can tell if they 've been tampered .
Time can be received from GPS or via WWVB .
You can then deliver those signed files once hypothetical snow storm is done and be fairly confident that they were n't tampered with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My point is this, don't automatically assume an Internet connection is convenient or even available.Don't need one.
The scanner can save to an SD or CF card, and when you deliver your cattle you also deliver the card.
The data is saved to a file (that's perhaps checksummed and/or digitally signed by a key that's saved in the reader itself), and that file is used for inventory and invoicing.If you're deliver 24 cattle, make sure there were 24 unique IDs that were picked by the reader.
The purchaser would use their own scanner to make sure the tags on the cattle they're receiving match the tags on the seller's card.If you standardize the protocol (PCL ?
), you could have the scanners have USB connections so that you could hook them up to a printer and print a paper copy of the information for individuals that prefer paper (or do both for redundancy).If you need weekly inventories you can have files time-stamped and digitally signed (HMAC?
) so you can tell if they've been tampered.
Time can be received from GPS or via WWVB.
You can then deliver those signed files once hypothetical snow storm is done and be fairly confident that they weren't tampered with.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536253</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246364100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have some knowledge on this subject...</p><p>The issue isn't with the "giant farms." Corporate farms will be fine, it's the remaining hold outs, those who specialize in small market farming, or supplement their income with farming. They'll be hit hard and those who farm for a living, maybe with 100 or less head of cattle, will be in serious trouble. Taxes on farmers are unreasonably high when looking at small scale farming operations, as those taxes were established without their consideration. Further, considering the number of land owners who have inherited land over the years and our forced to farm in order to avoid taxes, taxes of such proportion as the land must be sold in order to pay them without considerations taken for agricultural use.</p><p>I've seen the results of taxes directed at land owners and small scale farmers since I was born. I live in Mideastern Ohio and I can say, this area is dead. There were several times as many farmers and local businesses, 20 years ago, as there are today. Jobs are gone and the local economy in shrinking. This is not an isolated case, increasing taxes are reversing economic growth in what were, prior to their enactment, growing economies. Without consideration for the effect of these new operational costs on the smaller businesses, you simply kill them, weaken the regions local economy, and create monopolies.</p><p>When considering the goals of these chips and their assorted cost. It becomes especially heinous, when taking into account, small farms are already exceptionally good at preventing and identifying disease before the product goes to market. With a manageable herd, owned and managed by a single person, it's almost unheard of for a diseased beast to pass attention and make it to market. Sale houses and slaughter houses are also understaffed when dealing with large shipments from corporate farms, they simply aren't able to assess the conditions of the cattle. This is the real problem. Mismanagement and poor record keeping, being the reason it's so difficult to actually track the origins of the outbreak. So, of course rather than mandating a better system of record keeping and prevention, we're going to implant chips into every cow in the US, at great cost to the agricultural sector (and to us) and hope, that it works, from the beginning, on a massive scale. Ludicrous.</p><p>A simpler solution would be to hold the slaughter and salehouses, accountable for allowing a diseased animal to market. Hefty fines, would encourage understaffed operations, to hire and better train their employees. While at the same time contributing more funding to the Federal Governments various,efforts. Hell, maybe they'll even spend some of it on fixing the roads, but I doubt it...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have some knowledge on this subject...The issue is n't with the " giant farms .
" Corporate farms will be fine , it 's the remaining hold outs , those who specialize in small market farming , or supplement their income with farming .
They 'll be hit hard and those who farm for a living , maybe with 100 or less head of cattle , will be in serious trouble .
Taxes on farmers are unreasonably high when looking at small scale farming operations , as those taxes were established without their consideration .
Further , considering the number of land owners who have inherited land over the years and our forced to farm in order to avoid taxes , taxes of such proportion as the land must be sold in order to pay them without considerations taken for agricultural use.I 've seen the results of taxes directed at land owners and small scale farmers since I was born .
I live in Mideastern Ohio and I can say , this area is dead .
There were several times as many farmers and local businesses , 20 years ago , as there are today .
Jobs are gone and the local economy in shrinking .
This is not an isolated case , increasing taxes are reversing economic growth in what were , prior to their enactment , growing economies .
Without consideration for the effect of these new operational costs on the smaller businesses , you simply kill them , weaken the regions local economy , and create monopolies.When considering the goals of these chips and their assorted cost .
It becomes especially heinous , when taking into account , small farms are already exceptionally good at preventing and identifying disease before the product goes to market .
With a manageable herd , owned and managed by a single person , it 's almost unheard of for a diseased beast to pass attention and make it to market .
Sale houses and slaughter houses are also understaffed when dealing with large shipments from corporate farms , they simply are n't able to assess the conditions of the cattle .
This is the real problem .
Mismanagement and poor record keeping , being the reason it 's so difficult to actually track the origins of the outbreak .
So , of course rather than mandating a better system of record keeping and prevention , we 're going to implant chips into every cow in the US , at great cost to the agricultural sector ( and to us ) and hope , that it works , from the beginning , on a massive scale .
Ludicrous.A simpler solution would be to hold the slaughter and salehouses , accountable for allowing a diseased animal to market .
Hefty fines , would encourage understaffed operations , to hire and better train their employees .
While at the same time contributing more funding to the Federal Governments various,efforts .
Hell , maybe they 'll even spend some of it on fixing the roads , but I doubt it.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have some knowledge on this subject...The issue isn't with the "giant farms.
" Corporate farms will be fine, it's the remaining hold outs, those who specialize in small market farming, or supplement their income with farming.
They'll be hit hard and those who farm for a living, maybe with 100 or less head of cattle, will be in serious trouble.
Taxes on farmers are unreasonably high when looking at small scale farming operations, as those taxes were established without their consideration.
Further, considering the number of land owners who have inherited land over the years and our forced to farm in order to avoid taxes, taxes of such proportion as the land must be sold in order to pay them without considerations taken for agricultural use.I've seen the results of taxes directed at land owners and small scale farmers since I was born.
I live in Mideastern Ohio and I can say, this area is dead.
There were several times as many farmers and local businesses, 20 years ago, as there are today.
Jobs are gone and the local economy in shrinking.
This is not an isolated case, increasing taxes are reversing economic growth in what were, prior to their enactment, growing economies.
Without consideration for the effect of these new operational costs on the smaller businesses, you simply kill them, weaken the regions local economy, and create monopolies.When considering the goals of these chips and their assorted cost.
It becomes especially heinous, when taking into account, small farms are already exceptionally good at preventing and identifying disease before the product goes to market.
With a manageable herd, owned and managed by a single person, it's almost unheard of for a diseased beast to pass attention and make it to market.
Sale houses and slaughter houses are also understaffed when dealing with large shipments from corporate farms, they simply aren't able to assess the conditions of the cattle.
This is the real problem.
Mismanagement and poor record keeping, being the reason it's so difficult to actually track the origins of the outbreak.
So, of course rather than mandating a better system of record keeping and prevention, we're going to implant chips into every cow in the US, at great cost to the agricultural sector (and to us) and hope, that it works, from the beginning, on a massive scale.
Ludicrous.A simpler solution would be to hold the slaughter and salehouses, accountable for allowing a diseased animal to market.
Hefty fines, would encourage understaffed operations, to hire and better train their employees.
While at the same time contributing more funding to the Federal Governments various,efforts.
Hell, maybe they'll even spend some of it on fixing the roads, but I doubt it...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538263</id>
	<title>Re:Actual costs?</title>
	<author>twostix</author>
	<datestamp>1246379340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Umm talk about missing the point, try RTFA ey? Of course It's not a problem for the corporate feedlots...given that it was them who helped draft the legislation.</p><p>It's a big problem for the small farmer who has 100 head on 500 acres you know, the type that's fed humanity for the last 5000 years.</p><p>Big agri-corps whose disgusting operations caused BSE and 99.9\% of the tainted "meat product" in the last decade helped to write legislation that will expand their share of the market at the expense of old school grass fed beef operators.</p><p>So yes it is a problem if you like eating clean, natural meat.</p><p>And if you think that sort of overhead isn't a problem for a small family operator you don't know shit about "Lore:Rural" and are nothing but a poser or corporate lick-spittle.</p><p>Though you've misrepresented yourself a number of times before here haven't you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm talk about missing the point , try RTFA ey ?
Of course It 's not a problem for the corporate feedlots...given that it was them who helped draft the legislation.It 's a big problem for the small farmer who has 100 head on 500 acres you know , the type that 's fed humanity for the last 5000 years.Big agri-corps whose disgusting operations caused BSE and 99.9 \ % of the tainted " meat product " in the last decade helped to write legislation that will expand their share of the market at the expense of old school grass fed beef operators.So yes it is a problem if you like eating clean , natural meat.And if you think that sort of overhead is n't a problem for a small family operator you do n't know shit about " Lore : Rural " and are nothing but a poser or corporate lick-spittle.Though you 've misrepresented yourself a number of times before here have n't you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm talk about missing the point, try RTFA ey?
Of course It's not a problem for the corporate feedlots...given that it was them who helped draft the legislation.It's a big problem for the small farmer who has 100 head on 500 acres you know, the type that's fed humanity for the last 5000 years.Big agri-corps whose disgusting operations caused BSE and 99.9\% of the tainted "meat product" in the last decade helped to write legislation that will expand their share of the market at the expense of old school grass fed beef operators.So yes it is a problem if you like eating clean, natural meat.And if you think that sort of overhead isn't a problem for a small family operator you don't know shit about "Lore:Rural" and are nothing but a poser or corporate lick-spittle.Though you've misrepresented yourself a number of times before here haven't you?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535749</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28539473</id>
	<title>Eating cattle now ...</title>
	<author>Ihlosi</author>
	<datestamp>1246480620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.'</i> </p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>... eating you soon.</p><p>Soylent Green, anyone?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'Tracking cattle now , tracking you soon .
' ... eating you soon.Soylent Green , anyone ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.
'  ... eating you soon.Soylent Green, anyone?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28543299</id>
	<title>I can hear it now....</title>
	<author>motherpusbucket</author>
	<datestamp>1246466940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Waiter, there is a microchip in my T-bone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Waiter , there is a microchip in my T-bone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Waiter, there is a microchip in my T-bone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537611</id>
	<title>Re:The Farmers are Right</title>
	<author>demachina</author>
	<datestamp>1246373580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Since a large operation would have maybe 1000 head of cattle, it can be presumed that from the ear tags"</p><p>Ear tags are pretty fallible.  Our cattle its pretty normal for a cow or two a year to rip them out.  To be honest I think RFID tags would be a lot more reliable and a lot less misery to the animals than ear tags.  If you could add some basic breeding, ownership history and health information to the tags they would have self contained documentation which would also be cheaper and more reliable than paper.</p><p>If you could replace branding with RFID that would save a LOT of expense, misery and health consequences to the animals.  Branding is way worse punishment to the animals than an RFID tag would.  If you let the cattle vote on this I'm pretty RFID tags would win<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)  Problem is I imagine rustlers would be able to remove or alter RFID tags unless you plant them deep, while brands are pretty hard to change.</p><p>To be honest if you can brand your cattle you can RFID tag them at the same time so I'm pretty skeptical about these complaints from ranchers.  Its more likely they just hate the "gummint" and a bunch of new laws being laid on them.  I can kind of empathize with that, but the weak arguments about how impossible and expensive are exactly that, weak.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Since a large operation would have maybe 1000 head of cattle , it can be presumed that from the ear tags " Ear tags are pretty fallible .
Our cattle its pretty normal for a cow or two a year to rip them out .
To be honest I think RFID tags would be a lot more reliable and a lot less misery to the animals than ear tags .
If you could add some basic breeding , ownership history and health information to the tags they would have self contained documentation which would also be cheaper and more reliable than paper.If you could replace branding with RFID that would save a LOT of expense , misery and health consequences to the animals .
Branding is way worse punishment to the animals than an RFID tag would .
If you let the cattle vote on this I 'm pretty RFID tags would win : ) Problem is I imagine rustlers would be able to remove or alter RFID tags unless you plant them deep , while brands are pretty hard to change.To be honest if you can brand your cattle you can RFID tag them at the same time so I 'm pretty skeptical about these complaints from ranchers .
Its more likely they just hate the " gummint " and a bunch of new laws being laid on them .
I can kind of empathize with that , but the weak arguments about how impossible and expensive are exactly that , weak .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Since a large operation would have maybe 1000 head of cattle, it can be presumed that from the ear tags"Ear tags are pretty fallible.
Our cattle its pretty normal for a cow or two a year to rip them out.
To be honest I think RFID tags would be a lot more reliable and a lot less misery to the animals than ear tags.
If you could add some basic breeding, ownership history and health information to the tags they would have self contained documentation which would also be cheaper and more reliable than paper.If you could replace branding with RFID that would save a LOT of expense, misery and health consequences to the animals.
Branding is way worse punishment to the animals than an RFID tag would.
If you let the cattle vote on this I'm pretty RFID tags would win :)  Problem is I imagine rustlers would be able to remove or alter RFID tags unless you plant them deep, while brands are pretty hard to change.To be honest if you can brand your cattle you can RFID tag them at the same time so I'm pretty skeptical about these complaints from ranchers.
Its more likely they just hate the "gummint" and a bunch of new laws being laid on them.
I can kind of empathize with that, but the weak arguments about how impossible and expensive are exactly that, weak.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535639</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536459</id>
	<title>Re:Actual costs?</title>
	<author>visible.frylock</author>
	<datestamp>1246365120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Judging by what little I've seen of the selection of beef, and meats in general, in the EU, I'd have to say no thanks. We'll take more of your beer though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Judging by what little I 've seen of the selection of beef , and meats in general , in the EU , I 'd have to say no thanks .
We 'll take more of your beer though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Judging by what little I've seen of the selection of beef, and meats in general, in the EU, I'd have to say no thanks.
We'll take more of your beer though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536377</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1246364700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since they all already taging them, then your primary concern is already addressed.</p><p>I know how it works.<br>They already tag, so this issue is solved.<br>The technology is cheap and portable.<br>It does not need to be loaded real time, so then can do it through a cell tower, ar from a library next time the go into town, or any other of the dozens of way to get the data uploaded.</p><p>Historically, the poster you replied to is correct, the industry always cries out over any little thing usually making up 'facts'.<br>Ironically the person quoted raises sheep on a small farm in a controlled manner. Making their concerns baseless.</p><p>I take it you tag a lot of free cows~</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since they all already taging them , then your primary concern is already addressed.I know how it works.They already tag , so this issue is solved.The technology is cheap and portable.It does not need to be loaded real time , so then can do it through a cell tower , ar from a library next time the go into town , or any other of the dozens of way to get the data uploaded.Historically , the poster you replied to is correct , the industry always cries out over any little thing usually making up 'facts'.Ironically the person quoted raises sheep on a small farm in a controlled manner .
Making their concerns baseless.I take it you tag a lot of free cows ~</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since they all already taging them, then your primary concern is already addressed.I know how it works.They already tag, so this issue is solved.The technology is cheap and portable.It does not need to be loaded real time, so then can do it through a cell tower, ar from a library next time the go into town, or any other of the dozens of way to get the data uploaded.Historically, the poster you replied to is correct, the industry always cries out over any little thing usually making up 'facts'.Ironically the person quoted raises sheep on a small farm in a controlled manner.
Making their concerns baseless.I take it you tag a lot of free cows~</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28572505</id>
	<title>Re:Small != sustainable</title>
	<author>crmarvin42</author>
	<datestamp>1246640940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hate to reply to my own post (again), but as an FYI to those with mod points.  <br> <b>Overrated mod is not supposed to be use to mod down those you disagree with.</b>  Argue your point if you wish, but censorship based on ideology is assinine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hate to reply to my own post ( again ) , but as an FYI to those with mod points .
Overrated mod is not supposed to be use to mod down those you disagree with .
Argue your point if you wish , but censorship based on ideology is assinine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hate to reply to my own post (again), but as an FYI to those with mod points.
Overrated mod is not supposed to be use to mod down those you disagree with.
Argue your point if you wish, but censorship based on ideology is assinine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536693</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535747</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>j. andrew rogers</author>
	<datestamp>1246361520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Internet access isn't a good excuse as a low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be enough to report via SOAP web-service to whatever database; not to mention that every industry has costs-of-doing-business and this will/could be one of those things.</p></div></blockquote><p>
You assume far too much, out in the western US ranch country there is usually no communication services of any kind.  I have a small (a few square kilometers) ranch in Nevada that is 20 miles from the next ranch (never mind a road), typical for western ranching operations. I get cellular reception -- one bar -- if I climb to the peak of the adjacent mountain, that several thousand extra feet gives me line-of-sight to an area near an Interstate highway 30-40 miles away.</p><p>
There seems to be a presumption (1) that western ranches are the size of hobby farms, (2) that they are located anywhere near infrastructure, and (3) that free-range cattle is a tidy local pasture-and-barn affair instead of a horseback operation in remote canyons.  In many parts of the western ranching areas, you don't even locate all of your cattle for the better part of a year.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Internet access is n't a good excuse as a low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be enough to report via SOAP web-service to whatever database ; not to mention that every industry has costs-of-doing-business and this will/could be one of those things .
You assume far too much , out in the western US ranch country there is usually no communication services of any kind .
I have a small ( a few square kilometers ) ranch in Nevada that is 20 miles from the next ranch ( never mind a road ) , typical for western ranching operations .
I get cellular reception -- one bar -- if I climb to the peak of the adjacent mountain , that several thousand extra feet gives me line-of-sight to an area near an Interstate highway 30-40 miles away .
There seems to be a presumption ( 1 ) that western ranches are the size of hobby farms , ( 2 ) that they are located anywhere near infrastructure , and ( 3 ) that free-range cattle is a tidy local pasture-and-barn affair instead of a horseback operation in remote canyons .
In many parts of the western ranching areas , you do n't even locate all of your cattle for the better part of a year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Internet access isn't a good excuse as a low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be enough to report via SOAP web-service to whatever database; not to mention that every industry has costs-of-doing-business and this will/could be one of those things.
You assume far too much, out in the western US ranch country there is usually no communication services of any kind.
I have a small (a few square kilometers) ranch in Nevada that is 20 miles from the next ranch (never mind a road), typical for western ranching operations.
I get cellular reception -- one bar -- if I climb to the peak of the adjacent mountain, that several thousand extra feet gives me line-of-sight to an area near an Interstate highway 30-40 miles away.
There seems to be a presumption (1) that western ranches are the size of hobby farms, (2) that they are located anywhere near infrastructure, and (3) that free-range cattle is a tidy local pasture-and-barn affair instead of a horseback operation in remote canyons.
In many parts of the western ranching areas, you don't even locate all of your cattle for the better part of a year.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535733</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>Buelldozer</author>
	<datestamp>1246361400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I could take you to 25 different places on ranches I know of right now where your low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be as useful as lipstick on a pig.</p><p>You obviously don't spend much time outside in "Big Sky" states or you'd know better than to propose cellular ANYTHING as a communications solution. Cell phones flat don't work in much of the back country and the back country is where you tend to find a lot of cattle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could take you to 25 different places on ranches I know of right now where your low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be as useful as lipstick on a pig.You obviously do n't spend much time outside in " Big Sky " states or you 'd know better than to propose cellular ANYTHING as a communications solution .
Cell phones flat do n't work in much of the back country and the back country is where you tend to find a lot of cattle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I could take you to 25 different places on ranches I know of right now where your low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be as useful as lipstick on a pig.You obviously don't spend much time outside in "Big Sky" states or you'd know better than to propose cellular ANYTHING as a communications solution.
Cell phones flat don't work in much of the back country and the back country is where you tend to find a lot of cattle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535971</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous paranoia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246362660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>First copy protection just involved a word you had to type from the manual...</p></div><p>No, first they expected people to be civil and not rip off the software industry.  Then people started copying programs, cheating the system.</p><p><i>Then</i> what you said happened, then people started copying the parts of the manuals with the needed information, cheating the system.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Then it required serial codes...</p></div><p>...<i>because</i> people were cheating the system and software makers weren't in the market to release their programs for free.  So they escalated their measures.</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...then you needed to register the serial codes on the internet...</p></div><p>...because people were cheating <i>that</i> system, and, despite all the best intents of the people cheating said system, the software makers just couldn't see the infinite wisdom of giving their stuff away for free without any compensation.  So they escalated their measures.</p><p>I'm not quite certain what your point is.  Everything you described was in response to some other stimulus, not some concerted effort to devour your soul through taking your rights or some sort of Evil(tm).  No, really, it was.  Directly.  You can map it out.  Seriously.</p><p>But, as it relates to the current story, are you suggesting we don't ever do any sort of recordkeeping, ever, for fear it would infringe on someone's privacy somewhere?  Should we perhaps burn all historical books and newspapers because it might mean we can track trends of certain newsworthy people?  And if not, why do THEY get their rights to privacy denied?  Maybe we should torch all medical records because they might be referred to later?  Maybe all your family records, since they might be held against you later?</p><p>All I get from your post is "Everything the gummint does is evil".  Just like how Neanderthal man knew very well that anything bigger than him was Evil(tm), right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>First copy protection just involved a word you had to type from the manual...No , first they expected people to be civil and not rip off the software industry .
Then people started copying programs , cheating the system.Then what you said happened , then people started copying the parts of the manuals with the needed information , cheating the system.Then it required serial codes......because people were cheating the system and software makers were n't in the market to release their programs for free .
So they escalated their measures .
...then you needed to register the serial codes on the internet......because people were cheating that system , and , despite all the best intents of the people cheating said system , the software makers just could n't see the infinite wisdom of giving their stuff away for free without any compensation .
So they escalated their measures.I 'm not quite certain what your point is .
Everything you described was in response to some other stimulus , not some concerted effort to devour your soul through taking your rights or some sort of Evil ( tm ) .
No , really , it was .
Directly. You can map it out .
Seriously.But , as it relates to the current story , are you suggesting we do n't ever do any sort of recordkeeping , ever , for fear it would infringe on someone 's privacy somewhere ?
Should we perhaps burn all historical books and newspapers because it might mean we can track trends of certain newsworthy people ?
And if not , why do THEY get their rights to privacy denied ?
Maybe we should torch all medical records because they might be referred to later ?
Maybe all your family records , since they might be held against you later ? All I get from your post is " Everything the gummint does is evil " .
Just like how Neanderthal man knew very well that anything bigger than him was Evil ( tm ) , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First copy protection just involved a word you had to type from the manual...No, first they expected people to be civil and not rip off the software industry.
Then people started copying programs, cheating the system.Then what you said happened, then people started copying the parts of the manuals with the needed information, cheating the system.Then it required serial codes......because people were cheating the system and software makers weren't in the market to release their programs for free.
So they escalated their measures.
...then you needed to register the serial codes on the internet......because people were cheating that system, and, despite all the best intents of the people cheating said system, the software makers just couldn't see the infinite wisdom of giving their stuff away for free without any compensation.
So they escalated their measures.I'm not quite certain what your point is.
Everything you described was in response to some other stimulus, not some concerted effort to devour your soul through taking your rights or some sort of Evil(tm).
No, really, it was.
Directly.  You can map it out.
Seriously.But, as it relates to the current story, are you suggesting we don't ever do any sort of recordkeeping, ever, for fear it would infringe on someone's privacy somewhere?
Should we perhaps burn all historical books and newspapers because it might mean we can track trends of certain newsworthy people?
And if not, why do THEY get their rights to privacy denied?
Maybe we should torch all medical records because they might be referred to later?
Maybe all your family records, since they might be held against you later?All I get from your post is "Everything the gummint does is evil".
Just like how Neanderthal man knew very well that anything bigger than him was Evil(tm), right?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535665</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540911</id>
	<title>Re:Personally Speaking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246455480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>According to the CDC there is only 5,000 deaths(or even as high as 9,000 but a factor of 2 isn't going to be a big deal here) from all food poisoning per year (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/Vol5no5/mead.htm) which includes all types of foods.  So some quick back of the envelope calculations aiming for higher numbers, roughly 500million people eating on average 2 meals a day for 365 days in a year gives 3.6*10^11 chances to get food poisoning so the probability of dieing from food poisoning from any infection is roughly (5*10^3/3.6*10^11) 10^-8.  To just get food poisoning is 2*10^-4.<br>To put things into perspective the odds of getting hit by lightning is roughly 10^-6 but I don't have a real figure or a reference.  So you are roughly 100x more likely to get hit by lightning then to die of food poisoning but 100X more likely to get food poisoning then to get hit by lightning.<br>I have a hard time believing that this proposal would significantly lower these numbers a single bit so leave these poor ranchers alone.  Feel free to make the large agribusiness participate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>According to the CDC there is only 5,000 deaths ( or even as high as 9,000 but a factor of 2 is n't going to be a big deal here ) from all food poisoning per year ( http : //www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/Vol5no5/mead.htm ) which includes all types of foods .
So some quick back of the envelope calculations aiming for higher numbers , roughly 500million people eating on average 2 meals a day for 365 days in a year gives 3.6 * 10 ^ 11 chances to get food poisoning so the probability of dieing from food poisoning from any infection is roughly ( 5 * 10 ^ 3/3.6 * 10 ^ 11 ) 10 ^ -8 .
To just get food poisoning is 2 * 10 ^ -4.To put things into perspective the odds of getting hit by lightning is roughly 10 ^ -6 but I do n't have a real figure or a reference .
So you are roughly 100x more likely to get hit by lightning then to die of food poisoning but 100X more likely to get food poisoning then to get hit by lightning.I have a hard time believing that this proposal would significantly lower these numbers a single bit so leave these poor ranchers alone .
Feel free to make the large agribusiness participate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to the CDC there is only 5,000 deaths(or even as high as 9,000 but a factor of 2 isn't going to be a big deal here) from all food poisoning per year (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/Vol5no5/mead.htm) which includes all types of foods.
So some quick back of the envelope calculations aiming for higher numbers, roughly 500million people eating on average 2 meals a day for 365 days in a year gives 3.6*10^11 chances to get food poisoning so the probability of dieing from food poisoning from any infection is roughly (5*10^3/3.6*10^11) 10^-8.
To just get food poisoning is 2*10^-4.To put things into perspective the odds of getting hit by lightning is roughly 10^-6 but I don't have a real figure or a reference.
So you are roughly 100x more likely to get hit by lightning then to die of food poisoning but 100X more likely to get food poisoning then to get hit by lightning.I have a hard time believing that this proposal would significantly lower these numbers a single bit so leave these poor ranchers alone.
Feel free to make the large agribusiness participate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535633</id>
	<title>Just another tech to hack.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246360920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The black-hats will have a field day with this one.  Imagine aquiring full access to a cattle farmers database.</p><p>It would be like virtual biological warfare.  You could modify the database in devious ways, slowly causing the collapse of a legitamate business.</p><p>As far as the cost of the tags and not having internet access; I realize cattle farming is hard work, but on the other hand I have never seen a poor cattle farmer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The black-hats will have a field day with this one .
Imagine aquiring full access to a cattle farmers database.It would be like virtual biological warfare .
You could modify the database in devious ways , slowly causing the collapse of a legitamate business.As far as the cost of the tags and not having internet access ; I realize cattle farming is hard work , but on the other hand I have never seen a poor cattle farmer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The black-hats will have a field day with this one.
Imagine aquiring full access to a cattle farmers database.It would be like virtual biological warfare.
You could modify the database in devious ways, slowly causing the collapse of a legitamate business.As far as the cost of the tags and not having internet access; I realize cattle farming is hard work, but on the other hand I have never seen a poor cattle farmer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536215</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246363920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>Internet access isn't a good excuse as a low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be enough to report via SOAP web-service to whatever database; not to mention that every industry has costs-of-doing-business and this will/could be one of those things.</p></div></blockquote><p>You assume far too much, out in the western US ranch country there is usually no communication services of any kind.  I have a small (a few square kilometers) ranch in Nevada that is 20 miles from the next ranch (never mind a road), typical for western ranching operations. I get cellular reception -- one bar -- if I climb to the peak of the adjacent mountain, that several thousand extra feet gives me line-of-sight to an area near an Interstate highway 30-40 miles away.</p><p>There seems to be a presumption (1) that western ranches are the size of hobby farms, (2) that they are located anywhere near infrastructure, and (3) that free-range cattle is a tidy local pasture-and-barn affair instead of a horseback operation in remote canyons.  In many parts of the western ranching areas, you don't even locate all of your cattle for the better part of a year.</p></div><p>One time costs:<br>A cheap laptop: $500<br>A cheap passive RFID System, with 1,000 tags: $1000<br>A satellite phone: $500<br>=$2k</p><p>Recurring Costs: $40/month for unlimited sat phone service: http://www.globalcomsatphone.com/news/2007/04/unlimited-satellite-phone-airtime.html<br>Call it $500/yr</p><p>If you can't afford $5k over the course of 6 years of running your professional business to comply with this legitimate food safety issue, you have no business being in business. It also assumes you don't have a telephone or a computer anywhere on your ranch, which frankly, is also ridiculous.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Internet access is n't a good excuse as a low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be enough to report via SOAP web-service to whatever database ; not to mention that every industry has costs-of-doing-business and this will/could be one of those things.You assume far too much , out in the western US ranch country there is usually no communication services of any kind .
I have a small ( a few square kilometers ) ranch in Nevada that is 20 miles from the next ranch ( never mind a road ) , typical for western ranching operations .
I get cellular reception -- one bar -- if I climb to the peak of the adjacent mountain , that several thousand extra feet gives me line-of-sight to an area near an Interstate highway 30-40 miles away.There seems to be a presumption ( 1 ) that western ranches are the size of hobby farms , ( 2 ) that they are located anywhere near infrastructure , and ( 3 ) that free-range cattle is a tidy local pasture-and-barn affair instead of a horseback operation in remote canyons .
In many parts of the western ranching areas , you do n't even locate all of your cattle for the better part of a year.One time costs : A cheap laptop : $ 500A cheap passive RFID System , with 1,000 tags : $ 1000A satellite phone : $ 500 = $ 2kRecurring Costs : $ 40/month for unlimited sat phone service : http : //www.globalcomsatphone.com/news/2007/04/unlimited-satellite-phone-airtime.htmlCall it $ 500/yrIf you ca n't afford $ 5k over the course of 6 years of running your professional business to comply with this legitimate food safety issue , you have no business being in business .
It also assumes you do n't have a telephone or a computer anywhere on your ranch , which frankly , is also ridiculous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Internet access isn't a good excuse as a low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be enough to report via SOAP web-service to whatever database; not to mention that every industry has costs-of-doing-business and this will/could be one of those things.You assume far too much, out in the western US ranch country there is usually no communication services of any kind.
I have a small (a few square kilometers) ranch in Nevada that is 20 miles from the next ranch (never mind a road), typical for western ranching operations.
I get cellular reception -- one bar -- if I climb to the peak of the adjacent mountain, that several thousand extra feet gives me line-of-sight to an area near an Interstate highway 30-40 miles away.There seems to be a presumption (1) that western ranches are the size of hobby farms, (2) that they are located anywhere near infrastructure, and (3) that free-range cattle is a tidy local pasture-and-barn affair instead of a horseback operation in remote canyons.
In many parts of the western ranching areas, you don't even locate all of your cattle for the better part of a year.One time costs:A cheap laptop: $500A cheap passive RFID System, with 1,000 tags: $1000A satellite phone: $500=$2kRecurring Costs: $40/month for unlimited sat phone service: http://www.globalcomsatphone.com/news/2007/04/unlimited-satellite-phone-airtime.htmlCall it $500/yrIf you can't afford $5k over the course of 6 years of running your professional business to comply with this legitimate food safety issue, you have no business being in business.
It also assumes you don't have a telephone or a computer anywhere on your ranch, which frankly, is also ridiculous.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535747</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536543</id>
	<title>Re:Regulation</title>
	<author>wurble</author>
	<datestamp>1246365600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Umm, what does the Flu, a VIRUS, have to do with antibiotics, which are treatment for BACTERIAL infections?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm , what does the Flu , a VIRUS , have to do with antibiotics , which are treatment for BACTERIAL infections ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm, what does the Flu, a VIRUS, have to do with antibiotics, which are treatment for BACTERIAL infections?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535937</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538829</id>
	<title>Re:Take a look at Australia!</title>
	<author>Jeeeb</author>
	<datestamp>1246386180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>No we don't<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;). I don't think you get how big Texas is.

Anna Creek Station (Largest in Australia): 24,000km2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna\_Creek\_station)
Texas: 696,241 km2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas)

That said Anna Creek Station is still bigger than a number of nations. E.g. Wales, Israel,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No we do n't ; ) .
I do n't think you get how big Texas is .
Anna Creek Station ( Largest in Australia ) : 24,000km2 ( http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna \ _Creek \ _station ) Texas : 696,241 km2 ( http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas ) That said Anna Creek Station is still bigger than a number of nations .
E.g. Wales , Israel , .etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No we don't ;).
I don't think you get how big Texas is.
Anna Creek Station (Largest in Australia): 24,000km2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna\_Creek\_station)
Texas: 696,241 km2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas)

That said Anna Creek Station is still bigger than a number of nations.
E.g. Wales, Israel, .etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28541135</id>
	<title>Re:Actual costs?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246457100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. The cost of the tag may be $6 at this time (for cattle only). A horse is $20. A goat (tail web) is $20. It is illegal in the state of Illinois to inject my own critters, therefore I must pay a vet to come out and do it - $60 per hour + sedation for the donkey (lumbar insertion required). We sat down with our vet and figured out the cost. 12 chickens, 37 goats, 2 steer and 1 donkey (guard). Our cost (including scanner, second computer ($900 - seizable under statute if we are missing a chicken - don't want the rest of our personal data taken), etc. )was  $4,024 dollars to implement.   Our entire feed/vet bill last year was $3,012.</p><p>The governments own study done by KSU states that 100 cows = $17 dollars per head. 50 cows = $60 per head. 10 cows = $81 per head.  Now seeing that according to the NASS 80\% of the cattle produced in this country come from 1 - 49 head - who will be affected?  Small producers. (see #4 below).</p><p>2. The 840 tags are not removable and re-usable. Under Federal Statute they may only be removed at the time of slaughter by the slaughter house or by the "stakeholder" to whom the livestock belongs if slaughtered on "premises".  It is a class 4 Felony to remove the tags.</p><p>3. This is not about the "cows" rights - this is about my rights as a livestock owner to continue our very small operation which provides 90\% of our meat and dairy products.  This in effect would cause us to lose $12K worth of milk per year.  We don't feed anyone else but ourselves.</p><p>4. If this is such an "imperative program" why are the "large producers" exempt.  Ever seen 1 million chickens - they are exempt.  Large producers will use a "group lot number" - no individual tagging or reporting.   What exactly is the definition of a "large producer" - seems the USDA forgot to set a number.</p><p>5. This program stops at slaughter. Once the head is removed, the carcass becomes just more "meat" in the pile. Now how is one going to determine - since testing takes place on the MEAT - if it is AIN 840-xxx-xxx-xxx-xx1 or AIN-840-xxx-xxx-xxx-xx2 that caused the issue?  One needs to work these things out before implemting the program.</p><p>6. If my livestock never leaves my farm, then I have the "honor" of just registering my Real Property as a "Premises" (look in Blacks Law Dictionary for the problem there). But if I need to take my critter to the vet - can't, slaughterhouse - can't, bring on new breeding stock - can't.    HOWEVER according to Illinois Statute I will be committing a Class 4 Felony if I do not take the critter to the vet.....catch 22.</p><p>The issue is this: This program has not been well thought out. Looks good on paper for exporters, but not for the little guy.  Whenever you can get over 30,0000 Americans to go to a Federal Website and register their complaints/concerns it is pretty amazing.</p><p>The USDA should increase the safety of the food supply by:</p><p>1. Actually inspecting critters at the borders (less than 0.05\% are actually looked at now).<br>2. Actually inspect the livestock being presented for slaughter.<br>3. Use the Disease programs in place now (Illinois has been disease free for many of these diseases for decades).<br>4. Not depend on the magic Rfid tag to create a +3 "Shield of Disease Resistance" on MY livestock.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
The cost of the tag may be $ 6 at this time ( for cattle only ) .
A horse is $ 20 .
A goat ( tail web ) is $ 20 .
It is illegal in the state of Illinois to inject my own critters , therefore I must pay a vet to come out and do it - $ 60 per hour + sedation for the donkey ( lumbar insertion required ) .
We sat down with our vet and figured out the cost .
12 chickens , 37 goats , 2 steer and 1 donkey ( guard ) .
Our cost ( including scanner , second computer ( $ 900 - seizable under statute if we are missing a chicken - do n't want the rest of our personal data taken ) , etc .
) was $ 4,024 dollars to implement .
Our entire feed/vet bill last year was $ 3,012.The governments own study done by KSU states that 100 cows = $ 17 dollars per head .
50 cows = $ 60 per head .
10 cows = $ 81 per head .
Now seeing that according to the NASS 80 \ % of the cattle produced in this country come from 1 - 49 head - who will be affected ?
Small producers .
( see # 4 below ) .2 .
The 840 tags are not removable and re-usable .
Under Federal Statute they may only be removed at the time of slaughter by the slaughter house or by the " stakeholder " to whom the livestock belongs if slaughtered on " premises " .
It is a class 4 Felony to remove the tags.3 .
This is not about the " cows " rights - this is about my rights as a livestock owner to continue our very small operation which provides 90 \ % of our meat and dairy products .
This in effect would cause us to lose $ 12K worth of milk per year .
We do n't feed anyone else but ourselves.4 .
If this is such an " imperative program " why are the " large producers " exempt .
Ever seen 1 million chickens - they are exempt .
Large producers will use a " group lot number " - no individual tagging or reporting .
What exactly is the definition of a " large producer " - seems the USDA forgot to set a number.5 .
This program stops at slaughter .
Once the head is removed , the carcass becomes just more " meat " in the pile .
Now how is one going to determine - since testing takes place on the MEAT - if it is AIN 840-xxx-xxx-xxx-xx1 or AIN-840-xxx-xxx-xxx-xx2 that caused the issue ?
One needs to work these things out before implemting the program.6 .
If my livestock never leaves my farm , then I have the " honor " of just registering my Real Property as a " Premises " ( look in Blacks Law Dictionary for the problem there ) .
But if I need to take my critter to the vet - ca n't , slaughterhouse - ca n't , bring on new breeding stock - ca n't .
HOWEVER according to Illinois Statute I will be committing a Class 4 Felony if I do not take the critter to the vet.....catch 22.The issue is this : This program has not been well thought out .
Looks good on paper for exporters , but not for the little guy .
Whenever you can get over 30,0000 Americans to go to a Federal Website and register their complaints/concerns it is pretty amazing.The USDA should increase the safety of the food supply by : 1 .
Actually inspecting critters at the borders ( less than 0.05 \ % are actually looked at now ) .2 .
Actually inspect the livestock being presented for slaughter.3 .
Use the Disease programs in place now ( Illinois has been disease free for many of these diseases for decades ) .4 .
Not depend on the magic Rfid tag to create a + 3 " Shield of Disease Resistance " on MY livestock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
The cost of the tag may be $6 at this time (for cattle only).
A horse is $20.
A goat (tail web) is $20.
It is illegal in the state of Illinois to inject my own critters, therefore I must pay a vet to come out and do it - $60 per hour + sedation for the donkey (lumbar insertion required).
We sat down with our vet and figured out the cost.
12 chickens, 37 goats, 2 steer and 1 donkey (guard).
Our cost (including scanner, second computer ($900 - seizable under statute if we are missing a chicken - don't want the rest of our personal data taken), etc.
)was  $4,024 dollars to implement.
Our entire feed/vet bill last year was $3,012.The governments own study done by KSU states that 100 cows = $17 dollars per head.
50 cows = $60 per head.
10 cows = $81 per head.
Now seeing that according to the NASS 80\% of the cattle produced in this country come from 1 - 49 head - who will be affected?
Small producers.
(see #4 below).2.
The 840 tags are not removable and re-usable.
Under Federal Statute they may only be removed at the time of slaughter by the slaughter house or by the "stakeholder" to whom the livestock belongs if slaughtered on "premises".
It is a class 4 Felony to remove the tags.3.
This is not about the "cows" rights - this is about my rights as a livestock owner to continue our very small operation which provides 90\% of our meat and dairy products.
This in effect would cause us to lose $12K worth of milk per year.
We don't feed anyone else but ourselves.4.
If this is such an "imperative program" why are the "large producers" exempt.
Ever seen 1 million chickens - they are exempt.
Large producers will use a "group lot number" - no individual tagging or reporting.
What exactly is the definition of a "large producer" - seems the USDA forgot to set a number.5.
This program stops at slaughter.
Once the head is removed, the carcass becomes just more "meat" in the pile.
Now how is one going to determine - since testing takes place on the MEAT - if it is AIN 840-xxx-xxx-xxx-xx1 or AIN-840-xxx-xxx-xxx-xx2 that caused the issue?
One needs to work these things out before implemting the program.6.
If my livestock never leaves my farm, then I have the "honor" of just registering my Real Property as a "Premises" (look in Blacks Law Dictionary for the problem there).
But if I need to take my critter to the vet - can't, slaughterhouse - can't, bring on new breeding stock - can't.
HOWEVER according to Illinois Statute I will be committing a Class 4 Felony if I do not take the critter to the vet.....catch 22.The issue is this: This program has not been well thought out.
Looks good on paper for exporters, but not for the little guy.
Whenever you can get over 30,0000 Americans to go to a Federal Website and register their complaints/concerns it is pretty amazing.The USDA should increase the safety of the food supply by:1.
Actually inspecting critters at the borders (less than 0.05\% are actually looked at now).2.
Actually inspect the livestock being presented for slaughter.3.
Use the Disease programs in place now (Illinois has been disease free for many of these diseases for decades).4.
Not depend on the magic Rfid tag to create a +3 "Shield of Disease Resistance" on MY livestock.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535749</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537391</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>dave420</author>
	<datestamp>1246372020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you sell your cattle, or buy some more, you're going to be near a phone line.  Use that to upload the data.  They don't have to upload data when the cows haven't been in contact with other cattle, or haven't been checked by a vet for illness.  It's only when that happens would information need to be uploaded, and clearly that involves contact with the rest of the world.</p><p>The UK has had a system like this since the mad cow outbreak.  If a cow is found to be ill, the cows it has been in contact with can be identified very quickly, and dealt with (WITH FIRE!!!).  It's not impossible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you sell your cattle , or buy some more , you 're going to be near a phone line .
Use that to upload the data .
They do n't have to upload data when the cows have n't been in contact with other cattle , or have n't been checked by a vet for illness .
It 's only when that happens would information need to be uploaded , and clearly that involves contact with the rest of the world.The UK has had a system like this since the mad cow outbreak .
If a cow is found to be ill , the cows it has been in contact with can be identified very quickly , and dealt with ( WITH FIRE ! ! ! ) .
It 's not impossible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you sell your cattle, or buy some more, you're going to be near a phone line.
Use that to upload the data.
They don't have to upload data when the cows haven't been in contact with other cattle, or haven't been checked by a vet for illness.
It's only when that happens would information need to be uploaded, and clearly that involves contact with the rest of the world.The UK has had a system like this since the mad cow outbreak.
If a cow is found to be ill, the cows it has been in contact with can be identified very quickly, and dealt with (WITH FIRE!!!).
It's not impossible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535519</id>
	<title>Ridiculous paranoia</title>
	<author>Chris Burke</author>
	<datestamp>1246360260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.'</p><p>Ha!  As if.  Look, we grant cattle no rights, so it's not infringing their rights to have them be tracked.  So it's a far step from there to tracking humans.  It's like saying "Squashing spiders with slippers today, squashing people with slippers soon'.  It's nonsensical.  Besides, the reason cows have no rights is because they aren't capable of even thinking about the concept of rights much less engaging in protests etc to gain them.  So not only are they different morally, they're different practically because it's not like the government could just come and start tracking us all without us noticing and burning down the Capitol.</p><p>Hmm?  What do you mean "what's that hanging from my ear?"  Some piece of plastic with a number on it?  Well so there is!  Geeze, I don't remember getting my ear pierced, but I did get pretty drunk last Friday...  I remember somebody in a suit pointing at me and then I felt like I wanted to lie down...  But I must have gone into the tattoo and piercing parlor and gotten pierced.  With a tacky and crappy earring too, that doesn't seem to want to come off...  I hope I didn't get tattooed too...  Oh geeze, what the hell?!  "19273g"?  What the hell kind of tattoo is that?  Alright that's it, no more Friday night benders for me.</p><p>Now what was I saying?  Oh yeah.  Some people are so paranoid!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'Tracking cattle now , tracking you soon.'Ha !
As if .
Look , we grant cattle no rights , so it 's not infringing their rights to have them be tracked .
So it 's a far step from there to tracking humans .
It 's like saying " Squashing spiders with slippers today , squashing people with slippers soon' .
It 's nonsensical .
Besides , the reason cows have no rights is because they are n't capable of even thinking about the concept of rights much less engaging in protests etc to gain them .
So not only are they different morally , they 're different practically because it 's not like the government could just come and start tracking us all without us noticing and burning down the Capitol.Hmm ?
What do you mean " what 's that hanging from my ear ?
" Some piece of plastic with a number on it ?
Well so there is !
Geeze , I do n't remember getting my ear pierced , but I did get pretty drunk last Friday... I remember somebody in a suit pointing at me and then I felt like I wanted to lie down... But I must have gone into the tattoo and piercing parlor and gotten pierced .
With a tacky and crappy earring too , that does n't seem to want to come off... I hope I did n't get tattooed too... Oh geeze , what the hell ? !
" 19273g " ? What the hell kind of tattoo is that ?
Alright that 's it , no more Friday night benders for me.Now what was I saying ?
Oh yeah .
Some people are so paranoid !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.'Ha!
As if.
Look, we grant cattle no rights, so it's not infringing their rights to have them be tracked.
So it's a far step from there to tracking humans.
It's like saying "Squashing spiders with slippers today, squashing people with slippers soon'.
It's nonsensical.
Besides, the reason cows have no rights is because they aren't capable of even thinking about the concept of rights much less engaging in protests etc to gain them.
So not only are they different morally, they're different practically because it's not like the government could just come and start tracking us all without us noticing and burning down the Capitol.Hmm?
What do you mean "what's that hanging from my ear?
"  Some piece of plastic with a number on it?
Well so there is!
Geeze, I don't remember getting my ear pierced, but I did get pretty drunk last Friday...  I remember somebody in a suit pointing at me and then I felt like I wanted to lie down...  But I must have gone into the tattoo and piercing parlor and gotten pierced.
With a tacky and crappy earring too, that doesn't seem to want to come off...  I hope I didn't get tattooed too...  Oh geeze, what the hell?!
"19273g"?  What the hell kind of tattoo is that?
Alright that's it, no more Friday night benders for me.Now what was I saying?
Oh yeah.
Some people are so paranoid!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536909</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246368060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you insane!<br>I estimate it would cost OVER NINE THOUSAND to implement this system even on a small farm with only 2cows.</p><p>This is total FAIL...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you insane ! I estimate it would cost OVER NINE THOUSAND to implement this system even on a small farm with only 2cows.This is total FAIL.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you insane!I estimate it would cost OVER NINE THOUSAND to implement this system even on a small farm with only 2cows.This is total FAIL...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535709</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535709</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>zoobaby</author>
	<datestamp>1246361280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Technology isn't an issue on this.  Depending on what RFID technology is used, read range wouldn't be an issue.  Since cattle life is relatively short, active tags can be used which also address some of the concerns of a single person taking the readings.   Also readers can be attached to a trailer, punch a button and read all tags within range (which can be large or small).</p><p>Uploading data, you are right, it is very small.  A few hundred bits per cow is all that would be needed.  Even a old 300 baud modem could upload all the data relatively quickly.</p><p>As you also said cost is quite low compared to the operating costs of a ranch.  RFID tags are pretty cheap now, $0.10 for passive tags and $10+ for active tags.  Readers are $500 to $2k, but those are a one time purchase.  If a rancher can't absorb the one time cost, they are really hurting, and the USDA could always subsidize the readers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Technology is n't an issue on this .
Depending on what RFID technology is used , read range would n't be an issue .
Since cattle life is relatively short , active tags can be used which also address some of the concerns of a single person taking the readings .
Also readers can be attached to a trailer , punch a button and read all tags within range ( which can be large or small ) .Uploading data , you are right , it is very small .
A few hundred bits per cow is all that would be needed .
Even a old 300 baud modem could upload all the data relatively quickly.As you also said cost is quite low compared to the operating costs of a ranch .
RFID tags are pretty cheap now , $ 0.10 for passive tags and $ 10 + for active tags .
Readers are $ 500 to $ 2k , but those are a one time purchase .
If a rancher ca n't absorb the one time cost , they are really hurting , and the USDA could always subsidize the readers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Technology isn't an issue on this.
Depending on what RFID technology is used, read range wouldn't be an issue.
Since cattle life is relatively short, active tags can be used which also address some of the concerns of a single person taking the readings.
Also readers can be attached to a trailer, punch a button and read all tags within range (which can be large or small).Uploading data, you are right, it is very small.
A few hundred bits per cow is all that would be needed.
Even a old 300 baud modem could upload all the data relatively quickly.As you also said cost is quite low compared to the operating costs of a ranch.
RFID tags are pretty cheap now, $0.10 for passive tags and $10+ for active tags.
Readers are $500 to $2k, but those are a one time purchase.
If a rancher can't absorb the one time cost, they are really hurting, and the USDA could always subsidize the readers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28542125</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>Kintanon</author>
	<datestamp>1246462260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This legislation also affects people like my parents who own goats, rabbits, and pigs, who do not sell them commercially. They would be required at great expense to microchip and track these animals as they travel all of 100 feet from the pen to the dinner table. It's a senseless burden on small farms that provides the illusion of accountability more than the reality.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This legislation also affects people like my parents who own goats , rabbits , and pigs , who do not sell them commercially .
They would be required at great expense to microchip and track these animals as they travel all of 100 feet from the pen to the dinner table .
It 's a senseless burden on small farms that provides the illusion of accountability more than the reality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This legislation also affects people like my parents who own goats, rabbits, and pigs, who do not sell them commercially.
They would be required at great expense to microchip and track these animals as they travel all of 100 feet from the pen to the dinner table.
It's a senseless burden on small farms that provides the illusion of accountability more than the reality.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537013</id>
	<title>Finally a solid reason why we need IPv6</title>
	<author>porky\_pig\_jr</author>
	<datestamp>1246368900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>cause every cow needs its own IP address. And cows don't like NAT. No bull.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>cause every cow needs its own IP address .
And cows do n't like NAT .
No bull .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>cause every cow needs its own IP address.
And cows don't like NAT.
No bull.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537331</id>
	<title>Re:Regulation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246371720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Left to their own devices, food producers will quite happily sell us sawdust and animal faeces to eat, feed dead cows to other cows, and buy, sell and slaughter sick, dying and dead animals that have been hauled across continents.</p></div><p>Ok, where to start!  There are a handful of bad apples in any bushel, and there are those in the animal industry that would willingly take advantage of people for a profit, but that does not make all members of the industry complicit.  The vast majority of the livestock producers are honorable, upstanding people that value their animals, the environment, and the health of their customers.  However, they are also in a business that does not really pay them what their time and effort is worth.  They depend upon the suggestions of Land Grant research institutions and the conclusions of the USDA and FDA when deciding which practices to implement on their farms to try and stay profitable while maintaining the health of their cows.  Farmers were told that feeding rendered meat to cattle in small quantities was safe, and saved them money.  It even was until the scrapie prion from sheep made the jump to cattle and created BSE.  Now that we are aware we all recognized the need to avoid feeding meat to cattle, but the lack of forsight is not the fault of the farmers who had no way of knowing what they were doing was going to be unsafe.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Swine Flu's resistance to medication is the direct result of feeding battery farmed pigs anti-biotics instead of reducing pig density.</p></div><p>AS to "Swine Flu" it has nothing to do with antibiotic use in farms.  Antibiotics are used against <b>bacteria</b>.  the Flu is a <b>Virus</b>.  Consequently, you are <b>full of shit</b>. Do a little research before spouting a bunch of shit on a topic that you are obviously uneducated about.  Ars technica did a series of write ups on the disease when it first became pandemic (which they point out sounds scarier than it actually is).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>All for a few pennies extra.</p></div><p>Often a few pennies make the difference between losing money on every cow and making money on every cow.  We don't pay farmers what their time is worth, which forces them to go large scale in order to remain profitable (on average), unless they want to toss out 100years of technological advances and try to grow for the "organic" market, which is the least "sustainable" way to produce anything.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Left to their own devices , food producers will quite happily sell us sawdust and animal faeces to eat , feed dead cows to other cows , and buy , sell and slaughter sick , dying and dead animals that have been hauled across continents.Ok , where to start !
There are a handful of bad apples in any bushel , and there are those in the animal industry that would willingly take advantage of people for a profit , but that does not make all members of the industry complicit .
The vast majority of the livestock producers are honorable , upstanding people that value their animals , the environment , and the health of their customers .
However , they are also in a business that does not really pay them what their time and effort is worth .
They depend upon the suggestions of Land Grant research institutions and the conclusions of the USDA and FDA when deciding which practices to implement on their farms to try and stay profitable while maintaining the health of their cows .
Farmers were told that feeding rendered meat to cattle in small quantities was safe , and saved them money .
It even was until the scrapie prion from sheep made the jump to cattle and created BSE .
Now that we are aware we all recognized the need to avoid feeding meat to cattle , but the lack of forsight is not the fault of the farmers who had no way of knowing what they were doing was going to be unsafe.Swine Flu 's resistance to medication is the direct result of feeding battery farmed pigs anti-biotics instead of reducing pig density.AS to " Swine Flu " it has nothing to do with antibiotic use in farms .
Antibiotics are used against bacteria .
the Flu is a Virus .
Consequently , you are full of shit .
Do a little research before spouting a bunch of shit on a topic that you are obviously uneducated about .
Ars technica did a series of write ups on the disease when it first became pandemic ( which they point out sounds scarier than it actually is ) .All for a few pennies extra.Often a few pennies make the difference between losing money on every cow and making money on every cow .
We do n't pay farmers what their time is worth , which forces them to go large scale in order to remain profitable ( on average ) , unless they want to toss out 100years of technological advances and try to grow for the " organic " market , which is the least " sustainable " way to produce anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Left to their own devices, food producers will quite happily sell us sawdust and animal faeces to eat, feed dead cows to other cows, and buy, sell and slaughter sick, dying and dead animals that have been hauled across continents.Ok, where to start!
There are a handful of bad apples in any bushel, and there are those in the animal industry that would willingly take advantage of people for a profit, but that does not make all members of the industry complicit.
The vast majority of the livestock producers are honorable, upstanding people that value their animals, the environment, and the health of their customers.
However, they are also in a business that does not really pay them what their time and effort is worth.
They depend upon the suggestions of Land Grant research institutions and the conclusions of the USDA and FDA when deciding which practices to implement on their farms to try and stay profitable while maintaining the health of their cows.
Farmers were told that feeding rendered meat to cattle in small quantities was safe, and saved them money.
It even was until the scrapie prion from sheep made the jump to cattle and created BSE.
Now that we are aware we all recognized the need to avoid feeding meat to cattle, but the lack of forsight is not the fault of the farmers who had no way of knowing what they were doing was going to be unsafe.Swine Flu's resistance to medication is the direct result of feeding battery farmed pigs anti-biotics instead of reducing pig density.AS to "Swine Flu" it has nothing to do with antibiotic use in farms.
Antibiotics are used against bacteria.
the Flu is a Virus.
Consequently, you are full of shit.
Do a little research before spouting a bunch of shit on a topic that you are obviously uneducated about.
Ars technica did a series of write ups on the disease when it first became pandemic (which they point out sounds scarier than it actually is).All for a few pennies extra.Often a few pennies make the difference between losing money on every cow and making money on every cow.
We don't pay farmers what their time is worth, which forces them to go large scale in order to remain profitable (on average), unless they want to toss out 100years of technological advances and try to grow for the "organic" market, which is the least "sustainable" way to produce anything.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535937</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535427</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246359900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Nothing ever changes. This is the exact argument that they made in the 1900's when the FDA was first trying to reduce the number of human body parts that made it into canned meat: "Waaaaaa, you're going to put us out of business! Waaaaaaaa, no one could ever collect this much information!"</i></p><p>Lol, this is exactly what I was talking about; see my post right below yours. I've been sitting in on lectures on the Progressive Era for the last two weeks, and the fact that the large meatpacking companies supported the regulation was one of the more interesting tidbits I learned.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nothing ever changes .
This is the exact argument that they made in the 1900 's when the FDA was first trying to reduce the number of human body parts that made it into canned meat : " Waaaaaa , you 're going to put us out of business !
Waaaaaaaa , no one could ever collect this much information !
" Lol , this is exactly what I was talking about ; see my post right below yours .
I 've been sitting in on lectures on the Progressive Era for the last two weeks , and the fact that the large meatpacking companies supported the regulation was one of the more interesting tidbits I learned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nothing ever changes.
This is the exact argument that they made in the 1900's when the FDA was first trying to reduce the number of human body parts that made it into canned meat: "Waaaaaa, you're going to put us out of business!
Waaaaaaaa, no one could ever collect this much information!
"Lol, this is exactly what I was talking about; see my post right below yours.
I've been sitting in on lectures on the Progressive Era for the last two weeks, and the fact that the large meatpacking companies supported the regulation was one of the more interesting tidbits I learned.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535943</id>
	<title>Agriculture always depends on VOLUME</title>
	<author>NRAdude</author>
	<datestamp>1246362600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having been lightly involved in much of this kind of American labor, I'll remind you that this is the base of the economy that determines standard of living no different than housing and water. People can go-without electricity, but when you mess with sources of food and water then that becomes just another root right next to Fuel and Oil.  I've worked next to a slaughterhouse before and it takes alot of willpower to work a job like that; I'll stick with chicken-farming and vegetarianism like ol' Heinrich Himmler and Adolph Hitler.  Food choice aside, there are Swat-teams led by rogue USDA informants breaking down doors to FAMILIES that don't slaughter their animals or such as a means of sustaining business but for the cause of distributing raw animal byproducts for the sake of nutritional therapies and such; these are the stories you aren't hearing about because it is in direct conflict with the FDA and large pharmaceutical companies that pump-up Insurance costs by doctors and psychiatrists frivolously throwing unnecessary procedures and experimental drugs onto children and elderly not for the sake of improving lives but because of kick-backs and population control.  It was over in Chicago ILLINOIS that one therapist "Mike T. Witort" disclosed that pharmaceutical companies were sending scantily-clad representatives with unrelated bribes to ascribe the associated and consolidated clinics and HMO's to use their products.  The same therapist disclosed that many of the representatives are mostly prostitutes that have nothing to do with medical if not the drugs they share with their clients before comitting to the task of prostitution.  Free-roam animals in family-raised farms have never suffered the concentration-camp style of husbandry that all the government-approved alphabet corporations have "optimized" towards.  If not a diet for plants, at-least help these animals live a more honest, comfortable, and longer life in a family's stable and pasure rather than the mockery that FDA, Pfizer, Merck, and Swift have condoned.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having been lightly involved in much of this kind of American labor , I 'll remind you that this is the base of the economy that determines standard of living no different than housing and water .
People can go-without electricity , but when you mess with sources of food and water then that becomes just another root right next to Fuel and Oil .
I 've worked next to a slaughterhouse before and it takes alot of willpower to work a job like that ; I 'll stick with chicken-farming and vegetarianism like ol ' Heinrich Himmler and Adolph Hitler .
Food choice aside , there are Swat-teams led by rogue USDA informants breaking down doors to FAMILIES that do n't slaughter their animals or such as a means of sustaining business but for the cause of distributing raw animal byproducts for the sake of nutritional therapies and such ; these are the stories you are n't hearing about because it is in direct conflict with the FDA and large pharmaceutical companies that pump-up Insurance costs by doctors and psychiatrists frivolously throwing unnecessary procedures and experimental drugs onto children and elderly not for the sake of improving lives but because of kick-backs and population control .
It was over in Chicago ILLINOIS that one therapist " Mike T. Witort " disclosed that pharmaceutical companies were sending scantily-clad representatives with unrelated bribes to ascribe the associated and consolidated clinics and HMO 's to use their products .
The same therapist disclosed that many of the representatives are mostly prostitutes that have nothing to do with medical if not the drugs they share with their clients before comitting to the task of prostitution .
Free-roam animals in family-raised farms have never suffered the concentration-camp style of husbandry that all the government-approved alphabet corporations have " optimized " towards .
If not a diet for plants , at-least help these animals live a more honest , comfortable , and longer life in a family 's stable and pasure rather than the mockery that FDA , Pfizer , Merck , and Swift have condoned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having been lightly involved in much of this kind of American labor, I'll remind you that this is the base of the economy that determines standard of living no different than housing and water.
People can go-without electricity, but when you mess with sources of food and water then that becomes just another root right next to Fuel and Oil.
I've worked next to a slaughterhouse before and it takes alot of willpower to work a job like that; I'll stick with chicken-farming and vegetarianism like ol' Heinrich Himmler and Adolph Hitler.
Food choice aside, there are Swat-teams led by rogue USDA informants breaking down doors to FAMILIES that don't slaughter their animals or such as a means of sustaining business but for the cause of distributing raw animal byproducts for the sake of nutritional therapies and such; these are the stories you aren't hearing about because it is in direct conflict with the FDA and large pharmaceutical companies that pump-up Insurance costs by doctors and psychiatrists frivolously throwing unnecessary procedures and experimental drugs onto children and elderly not for the sake of improving lives but because of kick-backs and population control.
It was over in Chicago ILLINOIS that one therapist "Mike T. Witort" disclosed that pharmaceutical companies were sending scantily-clad representatives with unrelated bribes to ascribe the associated and consolidated clinics and HMO's to use their products.
The same therapist disclosed that many of the representatives are mostly prostitutes that have nothing to do with medical if not the drugs they share with their clients before comitting to the task of prostitution.
Free-roam animals in family-raised farms have never suffered the concentration-camp style of husbandry that all the government-approved alphabet corporations have "optimized" towards.
If not a diet for plants, at-least help these animals live a more honest, comfortable, and longer life in a family's stable and pasure rather than the mockery that FDA, Pfizer, Merck, and Swift have condoned.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535583</id>
	<title>Fine</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1246360680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't chip your cows. But when the EU, Japan or China bans US beef, don't expect me to back up your complaining. I'm siding with them. And if my supermarket carries beef or food with beef by-products warranted as having been tracked vs untracked varieties, guess which brand I'm buying?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't chip your cows .
But when the EU , Japan or China bans US beef , do n't expect me to back up your complaining .
I 'm siding with them .
And if my supermarket carries beef or food with beef by-products warranted as having been tracked vs untracked varieties , guess which brand I 'm buying ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't chip your cows.
But when the EU, Japan or China bans US beef, don't expect me to back up your complaining.
I'm siding with them.
And if my supermarket carries beef or food with beef by-products warranted as having been tracked vs untracked varieties, guess which brand I'm buying?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535953</id>
	<title>I have always been amazed...</title>
	<author>MikeV</author>
	<datestamp>1246362600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...at just how fast the powers that be can track down a food contamination all the way to a herd and all the way thru the herd to an individual calf and even back to the rancher who reared that calf. So... what are they trying to do here? We ALREADY have measures in place that allows us to track diseased cattle - it's far more accurate and faster even than tracking produce and trying to find contaminated tomatoes! It's not broken - and they're trying to fix it. Usually when that happens, there's an agenda.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...at just how fast the powers that be can track down a food contamination all the way to a herd and all the way thru the herd to an individual calf and even back to the rancher who reared that calf .
So... what are they trying to do here ?
We ALREADY have measures in place that allows us to track diseased cattle - it 's far more accurate and faster even than tracking produce and trying to find contaminated tomatoes !
It 's not broken - and they 're trying to fix it .
Usually when that happens , there 's an agenda .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...at just how fast the powers that be can track down a food contamination all the way to a herd and all the way thru the herd to an individual calf and even back to the rancher who reared that calf.
So... what are they trying to do here?
We ALREADY have measures in place that allows us to track diseased cattle - it's far more accurate and faster even than tracking produce and trying to find contaminated tomatoes!
It's not broken - and they're trying to fix it.
Usually when that happens, there's an agenda.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536501</id>
	<title>Re:Scary..</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1246365360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Doubtfull, but so what?<br>1984 was only possible because monitoring was one way, and there was no wide communication system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Doubtfull , but so what ? 1984 was only possible because monitoring was one way , and there was no wide communication system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doubtfull, but so what?1984 was only possible because monitoring was one way, and there was no wide communication system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536015</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538379</id>
	<title>Re:Take a look at Australia!</title>
	<author>twostix</author>
	<datestamp>1246380660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's going well for the feedlots, multibillion dollar agri-corps and large farms.</p><p>For small operators it's a cost and severe burden.</p><p>And if we need anything it's less small old school farmers and more feedlot "meat product" as they call it being produced by the Mitsubishi Corporation.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/s</p><p>Don't talk about what you know nothing about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's going well for the feedlots , multibillion dollar agri-corps and large farms.For small operators it 's a cost and severe burden.And if we need anything it 's less small old school farmers and more feedlot " meat product " as they call it being produced by the Mitsubishi Corporation .
/sDo n't talk about what you know nothing about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's going well for the feedlots, multibillion dollar agri-corps and large farms.For small operators it's a cost and severe burden.And if we need anything it's less small old school farmers and more feedlot "meat product" as they call it being produced by the Mitsubishi Corporation.
/sDon't talk about what you know nothing about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537287</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>OpenGLFan</author>
	<datestamp>1246371360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having owned cattle: it doesn't work that way.</p><p>No, you don't have lots of reads on small numbers of cattle, depending on where you are.  You're not their parents, and you don't care who they hang out with after class.  If you're a large enough rancher to segregate groups of his cows, then you keep them segregated for that reason.  (For example, you want to keep a group from breeding that season.)  That group does not often change.  Your main tagging duties are:<br>1: Calving.  (Actually, probably during castrating time -- you've penned up half of that year's calves anyway.  Pen the rest.)<br>2: Buying cattle: tag them as they come off the truck.<br>3: Selling cattle: new buyer tags them.<br>4: If you've got a very large herd, and you're controlling batches of them as above, then track them when you batch them.  If you've batched them, you did it for a reason, and you're not going to change it more often than once per season.  (If that often.)<br>5: Sure, you're out in the middle of nowhere with the cows, but we're not tracking them real-time by satellite.  I guarantee you that even the smelliest hand goes to the bar on the weekend, and I've never known a bar without a phone.  Seriously, they just hand the scanners to the boss that night, and he uses this bit of ancient technology called a modem -- at MOST every two weeks.</p><p>(Oh, and expense won't be a problem for small farms: they'll chip in and buy one for three or four farms and spend the next ten years blaming each other for losing it and everybody wanting it at the last minute, just like they do for everything else.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having owned cattle : it does n't work that way.No , you do n't have lots of reads on small numbers of cattle , depending on where you are .
You 're not their parents , and you do n't care who they hang out with after class .
If you 're a large enough rancher to segregate groups of his cows , then you keep them segregated for that reason .
( For example , you want to keep a group from breeding that season .
) That group does not often change .
Your main tagging duties are : 1 : Calving .
( Actually , probably during castrating time -- you 've penned up half of that year 's calves anyway .
Pen the rest .
) 2 : Buying cattle : tag them as they come off the truck.3 : Selling cattle : new buyer tags them.4 : If you 've got a very large herd , and you 're controlling batches of them as above , then track them when you batch them .
If you 've batched them , you did it for a reason , and you 're not going to change it more often than once per season .
( If that often .
) 5 : Sure , you 're out in the middle of nowhere with the cows , but we 're not tracking them real-time by satellite .
I guarantee you that even the smelliest hand goes to the bar on the weekend , and I 've never known a bar without a phone .
Seriously , they just hand the scanners to the boss that night , and he uses this bit of ancient technology called a modem -- at MOST every two weeks .
( Oh , and expense wo n't be a problem for small farms : they 'll chip in and buy one for three or four farms and spend the next ten years blaming each other for losing it and everybody wanting it at the last minute , just like they do for everything else .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having owned cattle: it doesn't work that way.No, you don't have lots of reads on small numbers of cattle, depending on where you are.
You're not their parents, and you don't care who they hang out with after class.
If you're a large enough rancher to segregate groups of his cows, then you keep them segregated for that reason.
(For example, you want to keep a group from breeding that season.
)  That group does not often change.
Your main tagging duties are:1: Calving.
(Actually, probably during castrating time -- you've penned up half of that year's calves anyway.
Pen the rest.
)2: Buying cattle: tag them as they come off the truck.3: Selling cattle: new buyer tags them.4: If you've got a very large herd, and you're controlling batches of them as above, then track them when you batch them.
If you've batched them, you did it for a reason, and you're not going to change it more often than once per season.
(If that often.
)5: Sure, you're out in the middle of nowhere with the cows, but we're not tracking them real-time by satellite.
I guarantee you that even the smelliest hand goes to the bar on the weekend, and I've never known a bar without a phone.
Seriously, they just hand the scanners to the boss that night, and he uses this bit of ancient technology called a modem -- at MOST every two weeks.
(Oh, and expense won't be a problem for small farms: they'll chip in and buy one for three or four farms and spend the next ten years blaming each other for losing it and everybody wanting it at the last minute, just like they do for everything else.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537911</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>CowTipperGore</author>
	<datestamp>1246376160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Basically, it's clear that this rule was proposed by people who don't have a clear picture of the area they are asking this to be applied to - much less of the processes of the people who would actually do it.</p></div><p>I was with you until that last sentence.  If you had visited one of our agribusinesses' massive feedlots, you would see the people who support these rules.  They are designed to do a few key things: raise the cost of doing business proportionally more for smaller farmers (thereby, giving the Cargills of the world a bigger advantage), make the world believe that US beef is now safer, and give the government more control over the US food chain.  Those behind this know exactly what they are doing and why.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Basically , it 's clear that this rule was proposed by people who do n't have a clear picture of the area they are asking this to be applied to - much less of the processes of the people who would actually do it.I was with you until that last sentence .
If you had visited one of our agribusinesses ' massive feedlots , you would see the people who support these rules .
They are designed to do a few key things : raise the cost of doing business proportionally more for smaller farmers ( thereby , giving the Cargills of the world a bigger advantage ) , make the world believe that US beef is now safer , and give the government more control over the US food chain .
Those behind this know exactly what they are doing and why .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basically, it's clear that this rule was proposed by people who don't have a clear picture of the area they are asking this to be applied to - much less of the processes of the people who would actually do it.I was with you until that last sentence.
If you had visited one of our agribusinesses' massive feedlots, you would see the people who support these rules.
They are designed to do a few key things: raise the cost of doing business proportionally more for smaller farmers (thereby, giving the Cargills of the world a bigger advantage), make the world believe that US beef is now safer, and give the government more control over the US food chain.
Those behind this know exactly what they are doing and why.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540401</id>
	<title>Re:Australia does is better.</title>
	<author>bogjobber</author>
	<datestamp>1246449900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>According to the wikipedia article, the Anna Creek Station only has 3000 head as of last year and is trying to get rid of all their cattle, so that's a pretty poor example.</p><p>The situation for small-scale cattle ranchers in the US is quite different than in Australia.  Due to the fact that most of Australia is extreme desert and completely or nearly uninhabited, the amount of land under grazing is significantly less than in the United States.  The *entire Western United States* is a patchwork of very small rural communities based on cattle ranching.</p><p>I don't know the figures, but I imagine that they produce a much larger amount of beef than small-scale ranchers in Australia however you choose to measure it.  The simple fact is that there is not very much land in Australia that a) has enough water to allow grazing and b) is not productive enough to be taken over by large-scale agribusiness.</p><p>Now I don't know the feasibility of implementing this proposal, as I don't know specifically how much it would cost each rancher.  But just because it works somewhere else doesn't mean it would work in the US.  Conditions are very different even from state to state in the US, let alone halfway across the world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>According to the wikipedia article , the Anna Creek Station only has 3000 head as of last year and is trying to get rid of all their cattle , so that 's a pretty poor example.The situation for small-scale cattle ranchers in the US is quite different than in Australia .
Due to the fact that most of Australia is extreme desert and completely or nearly uninhabited , the amount of land under grazing is significantly less than in the United States .
The * entire Western United States * is a patchwork of very small rural communities based on cattle ranching.I do n't know the figures , but I imagine that they produce a much larger amount of beef than small-scale ranchers in Australia however you choose to measure it .
The simple fact is that there is not very much land in Australia that a ) has enough water to allow grazing and b ) is not productive enough to be taken over by large-scale agribusiness.Now I do n't know the feasibility of implementing this proposal , as I do n't know specifically how much it would cost each rancher .
But just because it works somewhere else does n't mean it would work in the US .
Conditions are very different even from state to state in the US , let alone halfway across the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to the wikipedia article, the Anna Creek Station only has 3000 head as of last year and is trying to get rid of all their cattle, so that's a pretty poor example.The situation for small-scale cattle ranchers in the US is quite different than in Australia.
Due to the fact that most of Australia is extreme desert and completely or nearly uninhabited, the amount of land under grazing is significantly less than in the United States.
The *entire Western United States* is a patchwork of very small rural communities based on cattle ranching.I don't know the figures, but I imagine that they produce a much larger amount of beef than small-scale ranchers in Australia however you choose to measure it.
The simple fact is that there is not very much land in Australia that a) has enough water to allow grazing and b) is not productive enough to be taken over by large-scale agribusiness.Now I don't know the feasibility of implementing this proposal, as I don't know specifically how much it would cost each rancher.
But just because it works somewhere else doesn't mean it would work in the US.
Conditions are very different even from state to state in the US, let alone halfway across the world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535911</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535671</id>
	<title>I hope the tinfoil hat idiots don't block it</title>
	<author>RWerp</author>
	<datestamp>1246361160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This program will spare us from having to kill off all these thousands of cattle just because 1 or 2 was diagnosed with some rare disease.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This program will spare us from having to kill off all these thousands of cattle just because 1 or 2 was diagnosed with some rare disease .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This program will spare us from having to kill off all these thousands of cattle just because 1 or 2 was diagnosed with some rare disease.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535639</id>
	<title>The Farmers are Right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246360980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In this case the farmers are right. The cattle are branded with a unique brand so the rancher knows who it belongs to. In addition, cattle are given an eartag so that the slaughter houses can tell where they came from. Cattle comes from two sources...large industrial like feedlots where the cattle are crowded into a small area and fed grain<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...or on ranches where they go free range and graze on grasses. Since a large operation would have maybe 1000 head of cattle, it can be presumed that from the ear tags, if a slaughtered cow is found to have some disease at the slaughter house, it can be narrowed down to one ranch or feed lot.</p><p>Now, because of the close confines of the feedlot, it can easily be presumed that the sick cow came into close  proximity with all the other cattle there. And so the new technology is just simply not needed, it's a wasteful expense.</p><p>For the rancher, equiping each of his hands with a scanner gets expensive. The data is instantly intrusive, as in "why didn't you pasture your cows this way" and in some instances could easily be used by overzealous groups (ie peta) to grief ranchers about their animal husbandry practices.</p><p>All in all, it's a lot of expense, a lot of trouble, and a lot of intrusion,  for very little is actual gain. In the efforts at finding disease, relying on this system alone to reduce the number of animals tested could mean that positives slip by because they weren't tested as they didn't show up in the contact list for the sick cow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In this case the farmers are right .
The cattle are branded with a unique brand so the rancher knows who it belongs to .
In addition , cattle are given an eartag so that the slaughter houses can tell where they came from .
Cattle comes from two sources...large industrial like feedlots where the cattle are crowded into a small area and fed grain ...or on ranches where they go free range and graze on grasses .
Since a large operation would have maybe 1000 head of cattle , it can be presumed that from the ear tags , if a slaughtered cow is found to have some disease at the slaughter house , it can be narrowed down to one ranch or feed lot.Now , because of the close confines of the feedlot , it can easily be presumed that the sick cow came into close proximity with all the other cattle there .
And so the new technology is just simply not needed , it 's a wasteful expense.For the rancher , equiping each of his hands with a scanner gets expensive .
The data is instantly intrusive , as in " why did n't you pasture your cows this way " and in some instances could easily be used by overzealous groups ( ie peta ) to grief ranchers about their animal husbandry practices.All in all , it 's a lot of expense , a lot of trouble , and a lot of intrusion , for very little is actual gain .
In the efforts at finding disease , relying on this system alone to reduce the number of animals tested could mean that positives slip by because they were n't tested as they did n't show up in the contact list for the sick cow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In this case the farmers are right.
The cattle are branded with a unique brand so the rancher knows who it belongs to.
In addition, cattle are given an eartag so that the slaughter houses can tell where they came from.
Cattle comes from two sources...large industrial like feedlots where the cattle are crowded into a small area and fed grain ...or on ranches where they go free range and graze on grasses.
Since a large operation would have maybe 1000 head of cattle, it can be presumed that from the ear tags, if a slaughtered cow is found to have some disease at the slaughter house, it can be narrowed down to one ranch or feed lot.Now, because of the close confines of the feedlot, it can easily be presumed that the sick cow came into close  proximity with all the other cattle there.
And so the new technology is just simply not needed, it's a wasteful expense.For the rancher, equiping each of his hands with a scanner gets expensive.
The data is instantly intrusive, as in "why didn't you pasture your cows this way" and in some instances could easily be used by overzealous groups (ie peta) to grief ranchers about their animal husbandry practices.All in all, it's a lot of expense, a lot of trouble, and a lot of intrusion,  for very little is actual gain.
In the efforts at finding disease, relying on this system alone to reduce the number of animals tested could mean that positives slip by because they weren't tested as they didn't show up in the contact list for the sick cow.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535547</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>davester666</author>
	<datestamp>1246360440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just like testing all cows for MCD would also destroy the industry, because any positive would kill exports and greatly impact domestic consumption.</p><p>So we only test a small percentage of pre-selected cows and get no positive results.</p><p>Problem solved.</p><p>And since we know in advance that the cows won't test positive, there is no reason to tag them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just like testing all cows for MCD would also destroy the industry , because any positive would kill exports and greatly impact domestic consumption.So we only test a small percentage of pre-selected cows and get no positive results.Problem solved.And since we know in advance that the cows wo n't test positive , there is no reason to tag them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just like testing all cows for MCD would also destroy the industry, because any positive would kill exports and greatly impact domestic consumption.So we only test a small percentage of pre-selected cows and get no positive results.Problem solved.And since we know in advance that the cows won't test positive, there is no reason to tag them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536779</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>allenw</author>
	<datestamp>1246367040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm curious to know how you define a 'corporate farm'.  I really hope you don't think that every Xxxx Farms, Inc. is magically part of ADM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm curious to know how you define a 'corporate farm' .
I really hope you do n't think that every Xxxx Farms , Inc. is magically part of ADM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm curious to know how you define a 'corporate farm'.
I really hope you don't think that every Xxxx Farms, Inc. is magically part of ADM.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540267</id>
	<title>Re:Take a look at Australia!</title>
	<author>bogjobber</author>
	<datestamp>1246448220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, you don't have cattle stations larger than Texas.  Texas is about 700,000 square kilometers, which is a little smaller than the size of New South Wales.  <br> <br>Please shut up if you don't know what you are talking about.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , you do n't have cattle stations larger than Texas .
Texas is about 700,000 square kilometers , which is a little smaller than the size of New South Wales .
Please shut up if you do n't know what you are talking about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, you don't have cattle stations larger than Texas.
Texas is about 700,000 square kilometers, which is a little smaller than the size of New South Wales.
Please shut up if you don't know what you are talking about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535455</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>pavon</author>
	<datestamp>1246360020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are an idiot who can't even RTFS. This regulation would hurt the small sustainable ranchers who are teetering on the edge of being able to compete, while benefiting the large-scale industry that you abhor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are an idiot who ca n't even RTFS .
This regulation would hurt the small sustainable ranchers who are teetering on the edge of being able to compete , while benefiting the large-scale industry that you abhor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are an idiot who can't even RTFS.
This regulation would hurt the small sustainable ranchers who are teetering on the edge of being able to compete, while benefiting the large-scale industry that you abhor.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537777</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>Cruciform</author>
	<datestamp>1246374720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have your own canyons?<br>That's pretty damn cool. I have a Honda Civic.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have your own canyons ? That 's pretty damn cool .
I have a Honda Civic .
: (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have your own canyons?That's pretty damn cool.
I have a Honda Civic.
:(</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28539331</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>jwhitener</author>
	<datestamp>1246478400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Small and local is the new big.</p><p>In Portland Oregon, most of our grocery stores sell locally grown beef that comes from many smaller independent 'free range' cattle ranches.  Likewise with vegetables.</p><p>The college I work for contracts all their beef from 1-2 organic/free range farmers also.  In progressive cities, the trend is very much to support local responsible agriculture and farming.</p><p>Across the nation, in terms of bulk fast food, etc.. the mass producers are the mainstay of course, but even fast food is changing.</p><p>In Portland, one of our most popular fast food franchises is very progressive, only buying local products, only using wind power, recycling all their waste, offers seasonal food based on what is being harvested, etc...</p><p><a href="http://burgerville.com/" title="burgerville.com">http://burgerville.com/</a> [burgerville.com] (flash site, their only downside:))</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Small and local is the new big.In Portland Oregon , most of our grocery stores sell locally grown beef that comes from many smaller independent 'free range ' cattle ranches .
Likewise with vegetables.The college I work for contracts all their beef from 1-2 organic/free range farmers also .
In progressive cities , the trend is very much to support local responsible agriculture and farming.Across the nation , in terms of bulk fast food , etc.. the mass producers are the mainstay of course , but even fast food is changing.In Portland , one of our most popular fast food franchises is very progressive , only buying local products , only using wind power , recycling all their waste , offers seasonal food based on what is being harvested , etc...http : //burgerville.com/ [ burgerville.com ] ( flash site , their only downside : ) )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Small and local is the new big.In Portland Oregon, most of our grocery stores sell locally grown beef that comes from many smaller independent 'free range' cattle ranches.
Likewise with vegetables.The college I work for contracts all their beef from 1-2 organic/free range farmers also.
In progressive cities, the trend is very much to support local responsible agriculture and farming.Across the nation, in terms of bulk fast food, etc.. the mass producers are the mainstay of course, but even fast food is changing.In Portland, one of our most popular fast food franchises is very progressive, only buying local products, only using wind power, recycling all their waste, offers seasonal food based on what is being harvested, etc...http://burgerville.com/ [burgerville.com] (flash site, their only downside:))</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536693</id>
	<title>Small != sustainable</title>
	<author>crmarvin42</author>
	<datestamp>1246366560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>In fact, Large farms are more sustainable on average than small farms due to the economies of scale that come with being a larger operation.  Small farms get away with out being regulated because they would be too much work to keep track of.  They can pollute to a much greater extent with impunity simply because no one is watching.  Large operations OTOH have to file Federal, State, and County paperwork verifying that they are running their business in accordance with envirnomental regulations on all 3 levels.  <br> <br>I agree that this will disproportionately effect small farmers, and that sucks for them.  However, these kinds of costs that are proportionately lower on larger farms is the reason that most meat is produced on large farms (not becuase those that run large farms don't care about their animals as far too many idiots believe).  Economic forces have cause all animal production industries to move from lots of small farms with only a handful of large operations to mostly large operations with small farms being the exception.  As with any industry, if you cannot compete profitably you will be squeezed out.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In fact , Large farms are more sustainable on average than small farms due to the economies of scale that come with being a larger operation .
Small farms get away with out being regulated because they would be too much work to keep track of .
They can pollute to a much greater extent with impunity simply because no one is watching .
Large operations OTOH have to file Federal , State , and County paperwork verifying that they are running their business in accordance with envirnomental regulations on all 3 levels .
I agree that this will disproportionately effect small farmers , and that sucks for them .
However , these kinds of costs that are proportionately lower on larger farms is the reason that most meat is produced on large farms ( not becuase those that run large farms do n't care about their animals as far too many idiots believe ) .
Economic forces have cause all animal production industries to move from lots of small farms with only a handful of large operations to mostly large operations with small farms being the exception .
As with any industry , if you can not compete profitably you will be squeezed out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In fact, Large farms are more sustainable on average than small farms due to the economies of scale that come with being a larger operation.
Small farms get away with out being regulated because they would be too much work to keep track of.
They can pollute to a much greater extent with impunity simply because no one is watching.
Large operations OTOH have to file Federal, State, and County paperwork verifying that they are running their business in accordance with envirnomental regulations on all 3 levels.
I agree that this will disproportionately effect small farmers, and that sucks for them.
However, these kinds of costs that are proportionately lower on larger farms is the reason that most meat is produced on large farms (not becuase those that run large farms don't care about their animals as far too many idiots believe).
Economic forces have cause all animal production industries to move from lots of small farms with only a handful of large operations to mostly large operations with small farms being the exception.
As with any industry, if you cannot compete profitably you will be squeezed out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535399</id>
	<title>Regulation</title>
	<author>ShakaUVM</author>
	<datestamp>1246359780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the summary: "'Lobbyists from corporate mega-agribusiness designed this program to destroy traditional small sustainable agriculture,' says Genell Pridgen"</p><p>It's true. When <i>The Jungle</i> was published, TR responded with the Pure Food and Drug Act, which regulated and inspected meat packing plants (he also went vegetarian for a little while, which, if you know TR, shows you how much he was affected by Sinclair's book).</p><p>Contrary to what many people might think, the large meat companies supported the act. It 1) Improved public perception of the safety of meat, increasing sales, 2) Opened up American meats to the European market and 3) Added significant costs to the industry, which put their smaller competitors out of business.</p><p>You can learn a lot from history.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From the summary : " 'Lobbyists from corporate mega-agribusiness designed this program to destroy traditional small sustainable agriculture, ' says Genell Pridgen " It 's true .
When The Jungle was published , TR responded with the Pure Food and Drug Act , which regulated and inspected meat packing plants ( he also went vegetarian for a little while , which , if you know TR , shows you how much he was affected by Sinclair 's book ) .Contrary to what many people might think , the large meat companies supported the act .
It 1 ) Improved public perception of the safety of meat , increasing sales , 2 ) Opened up American meats to the European market and 3 ) Added significant costs to the industry , which put their smaller competitors out of business.You can learn a lot from history .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the summary: "'Lobbyists from corporate mega-agribusiness designed this program to destroy traditional small sustainable agriculture,' says Genell Pridgen"It's true.
When The Jungle was published, TR responded with the Pure Food and Drug Act, which regulated and inspected meat packing plants (he also went vegetarian for a little while, which, if you know TR, shows you how much he was affected by Sinclair's book).Contrary to what many people might think, the large meat companies supported the act.
It 1) Improved public perception of the safety of meat, increasing sales, 2) Opened up American meats to the European market and 3) Added significant costs to the industry, which put their smaller competitors out of business.You can learn a lot from history.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538489</id>
	<title>Yet they can find time to brand/ear tag cattle?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246381920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And yet they have the time to brand/ear notch/ear tag cattle. Why not a chip? Also, these chips can read with readers mounted on vaccination boxes, or in loading pens, or in trucks.</p><p>Probably, because a chip can remain in the final whole carcass after slaughter, allowing the FDA and others to track where sick cattle are coming from. So if there is evidence that one carcass had mad-cow, they can do a full recall on beef from the ranch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And yet they have the time to brand/ear notch/ear tag cattle .
Why not a chip ?
Also , these chips can read with readers mounted on vaccination boxes , or in loading pens , or in trucks.Probably , because a chip can remain in the final whole carcass after slaughter , allowing the FDA and others to track where sick cattle are coming from .
So if there is evidence that one carcass had mad-cow , they can do a full recall on beef from the ranch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And yet they have the time to brand/ear notch/ear tag cattle.
Why not a chip?
Also, these chips can read with readers mounted on vaccination boxes, or in loading pens, or in trucks.Probably, because a chip can remain in the final whole carcass after slaughter, allowing the FDA and others to track where sick cattle are coming from.
So if there is evidence that one carcass had mad-cow, they can do a full recall on beef from the ranch.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538021</id>
	<title>Re:Regulation</title>
	<author>twostix</author>
	<datestamp>1246377240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Small family farms have fed humanity safely for thousands of years.</p><p>Your logic is to force them out of business via difficult regulation to in order to regulate the feedlots and massive corporate food growing factories who *cause* 99.999\% of the problems with food.</p><p>You wnat to ensure you can only get food from large agri-corps.  The very people you rail against.</p><p>That's about the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Small family farms have fed humanity safely for thousands of years.Your logic is to force them out of business via difficult regulation to in order to regulate the feedlots and massive corporate food growing factories who * cause * 99.999 \ % of the problems with food.You wnat to ensure you can only get food from large agri-corps .
The very people you rail against.That 's about the stupidest fucking thing I 've ever read .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Small family farms have fed humanity safely for thousands of years.Your logic is to force them out of business via difficult regulation to in order to regulate the feedlots and massive corporate food growing factories who *cause* 99.999\% of the problems with food.You wnat to ensure you can only get food from large agri-corps.
The very people you rail against.That's about the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535937</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28546135</id>
	<title>RFID Thresholds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246475100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A relative had a business idea involving RFIDs and cows. Being the only geek he knew, I helped by doing some research.</p><p>#1 - RFID sucks.</p><p>So many implementations, each with its own pitfalls. Interoperability doesn't exist. The supporting infrastructure is a much bigger concern than the cost per tag.</p><p>At the time, RFID enthusiasts were excited that Wal-Mart was forcing their suppliers to adopt RFID. I deduced that this was just another way for Wal-Mart to steal from their suppliers by offloading their overhead costs. Wal-Mart was just using RFID as the truncheon. I was right.</p><p>I assume that this push to adopt RFID is just someone's scam to line their own pockets.</p><p>#2 - Ear Tags break</p><p>It's true that ear tags have some reliability problems. They break, fall off, get torn out (ouch).</p><p>But RFID fails too. I didn't dig enough to learn the comparative failure rates.</p><p>#3 - Bar Codes are better than RFID</p><p>It's my opinion, just based on a hunch, that bar codes are better suited than RFID for inventory applications. RFIDs fail silently. Bar codes can be visually inspected. Bar codes are cheaper, more versatile, etc.</p><p>#4 - RFID thresholds, not hand scanners</p><p>Some of the comments mention the cost of hand scanners. That's not how it's done. You set up a threshold and pass the cows through it. Kind of like the anti-theft thresholds used in retail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A relative had a business idea involving RFIDs and cows .
Being the only geek he knew , I helped by doing some research. # 1 - RFID sucks.So many implementations , each with its own pitfalls .
Interoperability does n't exist .
The supporting infrastructure is a much bigger concern than the cost per tag.At the time , RFID enthusiasts were excited that Wal-Mart was forcing their suppliers to adopt RFID .
I deduced that this was just another way for Wal-Mart to steal from their suppliers by offloading their overhead costs .
Wal-Mart was just using RFID as the truncheon .
I was right.I assume that this push to adopt RFID is just someone 's scam to line their own pockets. # 2 - Ear Tags breakIt 's true that ear tags have some reliability problems .
They break , fall off , get torn out ( ouch ) .But RFID fails too .
I did n't dig enough to learn the comparative failure rates. # 3 - Bar Codes are better than RFIDIt 's my opinion , just based on a hunch , that bar codes are better suited than RFID for inventory applications .
RFIDs fail silently .
Bar codes can be visually inspected .
Bar codes are cheaper , more versatile , etc. # 4 - RFID thresholds , not hand scannersSome of the comments mention the cost of hand scanners .
That 's not how it 's done .
You set up a threshold and pass the cows through it .
Kind of like the anti-theft thresholds used in retail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A relative had a business idea involving RFIDs and cows.
Being the only geek he knew, I helped by doing some research.#1 - RFID sucks.So many implementations, each with its own pitfalls.
Interoperability doesn't exist.
The supporting infrastructure is a much bigger concern than the cost per tag.At the time, RFID enthusiasts were excited that Wal-Mart was forcing their suppliers to adopt RFID.
I deduced that this was just another way for Wal-Mart to steal from their suppliers by offloading their overhead costs.
Wal-Mart was just using RFID as the truncheon.
I was right.I assume that this push to adopt RFID is just someone's scam to line their own pockets.#2 - Ear Tags breakIt's true that ear tags have some reliability problems.
They break, fall off, get torn out (ouch).But RFID fails too.
I didn't dig enough to learn the comparative failure rates.#3 - Bar Codes are better than RFIDIt's my opinion, just based on a hunch, that bar codes are better suited than RFID for inventory applications.
RFIDs fail silently.
Bar codes can be visually inspected.
Bar codes are cheaper, more versatile, etc.#4 - RFID thresholds, not hand scannersSome of the comments mention the cost of hand scanners.
That's not how it's done.
You set up a threshold and pass the cows through it.
Kind of like the anti-theft thresholds used in retail.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538907</id>
	<title>Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246387140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.'</p><p>Thats like saying</p><p>'Eating cattle now, Eating you soon'</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'Tracking cattle now , tracking you soon .
'Thats like saying'Eating cattle now , Eating you soon'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.
'Thats like saying'Eating cattle now, Eating you soon'</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535911</id>
	<title>Australia does is better.</title>
	<author>xmiker</author>
	<datestamp>1246362480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>If Australian cattle farmers, including the operators of the 6,000,000 acre Anna Creek Station (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna\_Creek\_station) in South Australia can implement tagging of all of their cattle, why can't you Americans just do it as well, instead of whining?

I take it the US won't be complaining when Japan, Korea and the European Union don't want to buy their untraceable beef.

(http://www.mla.com.au/TopicHierarchy/IndustryPrograms/NationalLivestockIdentificationSystem/default.htm)</htmltext>
<tokenext>If Australian cattle farmers , including the operators of the 6,000,000 acre Anna Creek Station ( http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna \ _Creek \ _station ) in South Australia can implement tagging of all of their cattle , why ca n't you Americans just do it as well , instead of whining ?
I take it the US wo n't be complaining when Japan , Korea and the European Union do n't want to buy their untraceable beef .
( http : //www.mla.com.au/TopicHierarchy/IndustryPrograms/NationalLivestockIdentificationSystem/default.htm )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Australian cattle farmers, including the operators of the 6,000,000 acre Anna Creek Station (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna\_Creek\_station) in South Australia can implement tagging of all of their cattle, why can't you Americans just do it as well, instead of whining?
I take it the US won't be complaining when Japan, Korea and the European Union don't want to buy their untraceable beef.
(http://www.mla.com.au/TopicHierarchy/IndustryPrograms/NationalLivestockIdentificationSystem/default.htm)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538031</id>
	<title>Re:Regulation</title>
	<author>eric76</author>
	<datestamp>1246377300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The food industry doesn't need these regulations at all.</p><p>If you consider the actual diseases that make it to the consumers from meat, they are invariably the result of contamination or cross-contamination of meat at the packing plant.  Where the animal came from prior to that makes no difference at all.</p><p>As for BSE, it has not been much of a problem here.  When a cow with BSE was imported a couple of years or so ago, it took only about 24 hours to track it.  It is doubtful that the cow would have been tracked any faster with NAIS.</p><p>If you want to look at the real threats to our meat supply, look at the animals being brought in from Mexico with relatively little oversight.</p><p>Considering the size of the food supply, there have been very few problems at the producer level.  The problems that have occurred are after that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The food industry does n't need these regulations at all.If you consider the actual diseases that make it to the consumers from meat , they are invariably the result of contamination or cross-contamination of meat at the packing plant .
Where the animal came from prior to that makes no difference at all.As for BSE , it has not been much of a problem here .
When a cow with BSE was imported a couple of years or so ago , it took only about 24 hours to track it .
It is doubtful that the cow would have been tracked any faster with NAIS.If you want to look at the real threats to our meat supply , look at the animals being brought in from Mexico with relatively little oversight.Considering the size of the food supply , there have been very few problems at the producer level .
The problems that have occurred are after that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The food industry doesn't need these regulations at all.If you consider the actual diseases that make it to the consumers from meat, they are invariably the result of contamination or cross-contamination of meat at the packing plant.
Where the animal came from prior to that makes no difference at all.As for BSE, it has not been much of a problem here.
When a cow with BSE was imported a couple of years or so ago, it took only about 24 hours to track it.
It is doubtful that the cow would have been tracked any faster with NAIS.If you want to look at the real threats to our meat supply, look at the animals being brought in from Mexico with relatively little oversight.Considering the size of the food supply, there have been very few problems at the producer level.
The problems that have occurred are after that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535937</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536621</id>
	<title>Re:Regulation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246366080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/140" title="gutenberg.org" rel="nofollow">The Jungle</a> [gutenberg.org], published 1906.  <a href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12840743/porks\_dirty\_secret\_the\_nations\_top\_hog\_producer\_is\_also\_one\_of\_americas\_worst\_polluters" title="rollingstone.com" rel="nofollow">Boss Hog</a> [rollingstone.com], published 2006.  The meat industry is still grotesque.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Jungle [ gutenberg.org ] , published 1906 .
Boss Hog [ rollingstone.com ] , published 2006 .
The meat industry is still grotesque .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Jungle [gutenberg.org], published 1906.
Boss Hog [rollingstone.com], published 2006.
The meat industry is still grotesque.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535399</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536281</id>
	<title>They don't need handheld scanners.</title>
	<author>EWAdams</author>
	<datestamp>1246364220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And they don't need cellphone masts either. We put wildlife radio tracking collars on <i>marine</i> mammals, for God's sake. This is a well-understood technology with many variants for different applications -- I think we can find a way to use it on cattle in an open landscape.</p><p>Besides, the supermarket price of beef is too low anyway. It doesn't properly include beef's carbon or methane costs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And they do n't need cellphone masts either .
We put wildlife radio tracking collars on marine mammals , for God 's sake .
This is a well-understood technology with many variants for different applications -- I think we can find a way to use it on cattle in an open landscape.Besides , the supermarket price of beef is too low anyway .
It does n't properly include beef 's carbon or methane costs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And they don't need cellphone masts either.
We put wildlife radio tracking collars on marine mammals, for God's sake.
This is a well-understood technology with many variants for different applications -- I think we can find a way to use it on cattle in an open landscape.Besides, the supermarket price of beef is too low anyway.
It doesn't properly include beef's carbon or methane costs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535639</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535891</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246362360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I call BS. If I stole a cow from one of those giant farms, the damn rancher'd be able to identify it in a second, but the instant you want to track something for public safety reasons, "there is no way they could ever collect that information."</p></div></blockquote><p>
I call BS on your BS.  If we were talking about corporate feed lots it would be one thing, but a very significant percentage of the US beef herd is raised by independent cattle producers on open range in very sparsely populated country.  It can take months to find all of your cattle to tag them in the first place, so it is very easy to "lose" cattle without noticing. In fact, the law in the ranching areas I am familiar with is that you only have rights to your free-range cattle if you can find and tag them within the first year after birth, after which they enter the public domain (first person to tag them owns them). It is not at all uncommon for me to find a rancher's untagged cattle in one of my canyons.</p><p>
Beef ranching in the western US does not work the way you think it does. Much of the basic logistics of it have not changed much since the 19th century.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I call BS .
If I stole a cow from one of those giant farms , the damn rancher 'd be able to identify it in a second , but the instant you want to track something for public safety reasons , " there is no way they could ever collect that information .
" I call BS on your BS .
If we were talking about corporate feed lots it would be one thing , but a very significant percentage of the US beef herd is raised by independent cattle producers on open range in very sparsely populated country .
It can take months to find all of your cattle to tag them in the first place , so it is very easy to " lose " cattle without noticing .
In fact , the law in the ranching areas I am familiar with is that you only have rights to your free-range cattle if you can find and tag them within the first year after birth , after which they enter the public domain ( first person to tag them owns them ) .
It is not at all uncommon for me to find a rancher 's untagged cattle in one of my canyons .
Beef ranching in the western US does not work the way you think it does .
Much of the basic logistics of it have not changed much since the 19th century .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I call BS.
If I stole a cow from one of those giant farms, the damn rancher'd be able to identify it in a second, but the instant you want to track something for public safety reasons, "there is no way they could ever collect that information.
"
I call BS on your BS.
If we were talking about corporate feed lots it would be one thing, but a very significant percentage of the US beef herd is raised by independent cattle producers on open range in very sparsely populated country.
It can take months to find all of your cattle to tag them in the first place, so it is very easy to "lose" cattle without noticing.
In fact, the law in the ranching areas I am familiar with is that you only have rights to your free-range cattle if you can find and tag them within the first year after birth, after which they enter the public domain (first person to tag them owns them).
It is not at all uncommon for me to find a rancher's untagged cattle in one of my canyons.
Beef ranching in the western US does not work the way you think it does.
Much of the basic logistics of it have not changed much since the 19th century.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537907</id>
	<title>Re:Take a look at Australia!</title>
	<author>RoboRay</author>
	<datestamp>1246376040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's no moon...  That's a cattle station!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's no moon... That 's a cattle station !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's no moon...  That's a cattle station!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536631</id>
	<title>Re:The Farmers are Right</title>
	<author>ckaminski</author>
	<datestamp>1246366140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Except when cattle are commingled at the slaughterhouse - infection could be spread there.<br><br>Or when two ranchers commingle their herds where there are shared grazing rights.<br><br>Or any of a half dozen other situations I could come up with, including when herds are sold or split, or calves are sold, or studding occurs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Except when cattle are commingled at the slaughterhouse - infection could be spread there.Or when two ranchers commingle their herds where there are shared grazing rights.Or any of a half dozen other situations I could come up with , including when herds are sold or split , or calves are sold , or studding occurs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except when cattle are commingled at the slaughterhouse - infection could be spread there.Or when two ranchers commingle their herds where there are shared grazing rights.Or any of a half dozen other situations I could come up with, including when herds are sold or split, or calves are sold, or studding occurs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535639</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537345</id>
	<title>Government Opposed Because UFO Cattle Mutilations</title>
	<author>curmudgeon99</author>
	<datestamp>1246371780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While there are members of the non-elected government who would like you to believe they oppose this on Libertarian grounds, that is not the case. The permanent government oppose this because it would reveal which cattle are involved in UFO Cattle Mutilations. Perfectly obvious...
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While there are members of the non-elected government who would like you to believe they oppose this on Libertarian grounds , that is not the case .
The permanent government oppose this because it would reveal which cattle are involved in UFO Cattle Mutilations .
Perfectly obvious.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While there are members of the non-elected government who would like you to believe they oppose this on Libertarian grounds, that is not the case.
The permanent government oppose this because it would reveal which cattle are involved in UFO Cattle Mutilations.
Perfectly obvious...
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535869</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous paranoia</title>
	<author>Un pobre guey</author>
	<datestamp>1246362180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are so many ways you are being tracked already, the 'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon" fear isn't paranoia, it's whistling in the dark. This issue has nothing whatsoever to do with privacy issues. It is a purely industrial matter. Both agribusiness and small farmers are whining about something that will increase their costs. That's all. Will it put anyone out of business? No, unless they sell less than a few tens of cows a year, in which case they might be better off leaving the business on that small a scale.
<br>
<br>
There will certainly be an up front hit for the equipment, but the operating expenses afterwards will be low. The internet connection issue is bogus. If the farm is connected by phone, it can sync data. There are consumer-oriented satellite connections as well. Most of the other complaints are about as easy to explain away.
<br>
<br>
This leaves the cost issue. Is the problem that it is supposed to remedy serious enough to warrant the additional cost and bureaucracy, or not? Do other industries have similar tracking and bureaucracy burdens that they simply chalk up to costs of doing business? I can't see the cattle folks arguing their way out of this. Surely this compares favorably in cost with their heavy use of antibiotics, hormones, and other biologicals.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are so many ways you are being tracked already , the 'Tracking cattle now , tracking you soon " fear is n't paranoia , it 's whistling in the dark .
This issue has nothing whatsoever to do with privacy issues .
It is a purely industrial matter .
Both agribusiness and small farmers are whining about something that will increase their costs .
That 's all .
Will it put anyone out of business ?
No , unless they sell less than a few tens of cows a year , in which case they might be better off leaving the business on that small a scale .
There will certainly be an up front hit for the equipment , but the operating expenses afterwards will be low .
The internet connection issue is bogus .
If the farm is connected by phone , it can sync data .
There are consumer-oriented satellite connections as well .
Most of the other complaints are about as easy to explain away .
This leaves the cost issue .
Is the problem that it is supposed to remedy serious enough to warrant the additional cost and bureaucracy , or not ?
Do other industries have similar tracking and bureaucracy burdens that they simply chalk up to costs of doing business ?
I ca n't see the cattle folks arguing their way out of this .
Surely this compares favorably in cost with their heavy use of antibiotics , hormones , and other biologicals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are so many ways you are being tracked already, the 'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon" fear isn't paranoia, it's whistling in the dark.
This issue has nothing whatsoever to do with privacy issues.
It is a purely industrial matter.
Both agribusiness and small farmers are whining about something that will increase their costs.
That's all.
Will it put anyone out of business?
No, unless they sell less than a few tens of cows a year, in which case they might be better off leaving the business on that small a scale.
There will certainly be an up front hit for the equipment, but the operating expenses afterwards will be low.
The internet connection issue is bogus.
If the farm is connected by phone, it can sync data.
There are consumer-oriented satellite connections as well.
Most of the other complaints are about as easy to explain away.
This leaves the cost issue.
Is the problem that it is supposed to remedy serious enough to warrant the additional cost and bureaucracy, or not?
Do other industries have similar tracking and bureaucracy burdens that they simply chalk up to costs of doing business?
I can't see the cattle folks arguing their way out of this.
Surely this compares favorably in cost with their heavy use of antibiotics, hormones, and other biologicals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536669</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous paranoia</title>
	<author>not-my-real-name</author>
	<datestamp>1246366380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.'</p></div><p>Why stop there.  People eat cows.  Maybe soon people will eat you.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Now what was I saying? Oh yeah. Some people are so paranoid!</p></div><p>I'm agreeing with you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'Tracking cattle now , tracking you soon .
'Why stop there .
People eat cows .
Maybe soon people will eat you.Now what was I saying ?
Oh yeah .
Some people are so paranoid ! I 'm agreeing with you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.
'Why stop there.
People eat cows.
Maybe soon people will eat you.Now what was I saying?
Oh yeah.
Some people are so paranoid!I'm agreeing with you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536885</id>
	<title>Prevention  Tracking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246367880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why focus on tracking the diseases instead of preventing them? Get rid of industrial feedlots that use animal offal in feed, overcrowding, antibiotics in feed. Double cheeseburgers should probably cost more than $1. Switch to grass-fed range beef.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why focus on tracking the diseases instead of preventing them ?
Get rid of industrial feedlots that use animal offal in feed , overcrowding , antibiotics in feed .
Double cheeseburgers should probably cost more than $ 1 .
Switch to grass-fed range beef .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why focus on tracking the diseases instead of preventing them?
Get rid of industrial feedlots that use animal offal in feed, overcrowding, antibiotics in feed.
Double cheeseburgers should probably cost more than $1.
Switch to grass-fed range beef.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536231</id>
	<title>Re:Actual costs?</title>
	<author>jabuzz</author>
	<datestamp>1246363980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would add that all cattle in the U.K. and the rest of the EU have had to be tagged for years, and all the farmers have not gone bust.</p><p>The real problem in the USA is that mad cow disease is being hidden. We (aka the UK) know how much infected cattle feed we sold to the USA, we have a *VERY* good idea as to how many cattle would have caught mad cow disease as a result. For some reason that number is *MUCH* higher than the official numbers. There is a problem and it is not with the estimated number of cattle that would get mad cow disease. We know the figures are good because they match every other countries outbreaks that we sold infected cattle feed to.</p><p>Personally when I visit the US I refuse to eat beef. Then again last time I checked 164 people in the UK had caught new variant CJD, with a potential for maybe 250 or so more. All less than the more than 1000 excess deaths from salmonella we had when the BSE crisis broke back in 1996. Those zero risk choices<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would add that all cattle in the U.K. and the rest of the EU have had to be tagged for years , and all the farmers have not gone bust.The real problem in the USA is that mad cow disease is being hidden .
We ( aka the UK ) know how much infected cattle feed we sold to the USA , we have a * VERY * good idea as to how many cattle would have caught mad cow disease as a result .
For some reason that number is * MUCH * higher than the official numbers .
There is a problem and it is not with the estimated number of cattle that would get mad cow disease .
We know the figures are good because they match every other countries outbreaks that we sold infected cattle feed to.Personally when I visit the US I refuse to eat beef .
Then again last time I checked 164 people in the UK had caught new variant CJD , with a potential for maybe 250 or so more .
All less than the more than 1000 excess deaths from salmonella we had when the BSE crisis broke back in 1996 .
Those zero risk choices : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would add that all cattle in the U.K. and the rest of the EU have had to be tagged for years, and all the farmers have not gone bust.The real problem in the USA is that mad cow disease is being hidden.
We (aka the UK) know how much infected cattle feed we sold to the USA, we have a *VERY* good idea as to how many cattle would have caught mad cow disease as a result.
For some reason that number is *MUCH* higher than the official numbers.
There is a problem and it is not with the estimated number of cattle that would get mad cow disease.
We know the figures are good because they match every other countries outbreaks that we sold infected cattle feed to.Personally when I visit the US I refuse to eat beef.
Then again last time I checked 164 people in the UK had caught new variant CJD, with a potential for maybe 250 or so more.
All less than the more than 1000 excess deaths from salmonella we had when the BSE crisis broke back in 1996.
Those zero risk choices :-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535749</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535677</id>
	<title>This is nuts.</title>
	<author>MarkvW</author>
	<datestamp>1246361160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I swear, people (in government especially) think that because we have these computers we have to fill them up with data.  People end up unnecessarily being slaves to the damn computer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I swear , people ( in government especially ) think that because we have these computers we have to fill them up with data .
People end up unnecessarily being slaves to the damn computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I swear, people (in government especially) think that because we have these computers we have to fill them up with data.
People end up unnecessarily being slaves to the damn computer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538179</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>twostix</author>
	<datestamp>1246378740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you don't want to get sick eating beef then stop buying if from feedlots.</p><p>Running old school operators out of business thereby expanding the feedlot industry, which is the cause of 99.9\% of the rotten meat and disease seems a little bit, well...stupid.</p><p>But what can you expect from hysterical "city folk".</p><p>I wonder if you would submit to having to report your businesses operations to the federal government *every week*?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you do n't want to get sick eating beef then stop buying if from feedlots.Running old school operators out of business thereby expanding the feedlot industry , which is the cause of 99.9 \ % of the rotten meat and disease seems a little bit , well...stupid.But what can you expect from hysterical " city folk " .I wonder if you would submit to having to report your businesses operations to the federal government * every week * ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you don't want to get sick eating beef then stop buying if from feedlots.Running old school operators out of business thereby expanding the feedlot industry, which is the cause of 99.9\% of the rotten meat and disease seems a little bit, well...stupid.But what can you expect from hysterical "city folk".I wonder if you would submit to having to report your businesses operations to the federal government *every week*?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536259</id>
	<title>Take a look at Australia!</title>
	<author>robbak</author>
	<datestamp>1246364100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I got a good laugh at "They don't understand the vastness of" the postage stamps you guys call "cattle ranches" over there.<br>Australia introduced NLIS a few years ago now, and it is going well. And we have cattle stations larger than Texas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got a good laugh at " They do n't understand the vastness of " the postage stamps you guys call " cattle ranches " over there.Australia introduced NLIS a few years ago now , and it is going well .
And we have cattle stations larger than Texas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got a good laugh at "They don't understand the vastness of" the postage stamps you guys call "cattle ranches" over there.Australia introduced NLIS a few years ago now, and it is going well.
And we have cattle stations larger than Texas.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538063</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>twostix</author>
	<datestamp>1246377600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I bet you don't upload "data" each week to the government in your business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I bet you do n't upload " data " each week to the government in your business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bet you don't upload "data" each week to the government in your business.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537207</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246370700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I call BS on you calling the original post BP.</p><p>83\% of beef is packaged and (mostly) owned by four corporations running massive feedlots:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Tyson, processing 36,000 head a day<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Cargill, processing 28,000 head a day<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Swift, now owned by JBS SA, at 16,700 a day<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * National Beef Packers, at 13,000 a day</p><p>The company JSB, SA, which purchased Swift in 2007 has a feed lot in Colorado that has up to 800,000 cattle on feed at a time.<br><a href="http://northernbeacon.blogspot.com/2009/02/northern-beef-packers-big-hat-no-cattle.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://northernbeacon.blogspot.com/2009/02/northern-beef-packers-big-hat-no-cattle.html</a> [blogspot.com]</p><p>Your Utopian description of the environment in which the vast majority of animals live mis-informs fellow slashdotters into funding these corporations through increased consumption, and furthers the falsehood that animal welfare is better than abolition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I call BS on you calling the original post BP.83 \ % of beef is packaged and ( mostly ) owned by four corporations running massive feedlots :         * Tyson , processing 36,000 head a day         * Cargill , processing 28,000 head a day         * Swift , now owned by JBS SA , at 16,700 a day         * National Beef Packers , at 13,000 a dayThe company JSB , SA , which purchased Swift in 2007 has a feed lot in Colorado that has up to 800,000 cattle on feed at a time.http : //northernbeacon.blogspot.com/2009/02/northern-beef-packers-big-hat-no-cattle.html [ blogspot.com ] Your Utopian description of the environment in which the vast majority of animals live mis-informs fellow slashdotters into funding these corporations through increased consumption , and furthers the falsehood that animal welfare is better than abolition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I call BS on you calling the original post BP.83\% of beef is packaged and (mostly) owned by four corporations running massive feedlots:
        * Tyson, processing 36,000 head a day
        * Cargill, processing 28,000 head a day
        * Swift, now owned by JBS SA, at 16,700 a day
        * National Beef Packers, at 13,000 a dayThe company JSB, SA, which purchased Swift in 2007 has a feed lot in Colorado that has up to 800,000 cattle on feed at a time.http://northernbeacon.blogspot.com/2009/02/northern-beef-packers-big-hat-no-cattle.html [blogspot.com]Your Utopian description of the environment in which the vast majority of animals live mis-informs fellow slashdotters into funding these corporations through increased consumption, and furthers the falsehood that animal welfare is better than abolition.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28541189</id>
	<title>Safer meat?</title>
	<author>woodartist</author>
	<datestamp>1246457400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This doesn't disclose the entire story. NAIS involves far more than tracking cattle. It includes tracking horses, sheep, poultry, etc. It involves premises registration, every site where animals are kept must be registered and inspected.  Animals that are moved between sites or are commingled with other animals at locations such as auctions, feedlots, fairs, etc. must be tracked. Large producers can get group IDs where they only have to ID lots of animals, small producers must ID every animal. This puts the load of the work on the small/backyard producer and not the large businesses. Big agribusiness has been on board for this. It has the potential to cut competition.

The purpose of NAIS is to allow tracking of diseased animals. But first the animal must be identified as diseased. There will be no increase in testing of animals or meat due to NAIS. It will only allow the USDA to go back and find any animals who were associated with the diseased animal throughout it's life. The direction most countries have chosen is to increase inspection on animals and meat to remove the diseased animals from the chain before they are visibly ill and not wait until they have the chance to infect much larger numbers of animals that then have to be tracked back through contact records. From what I have seen this is indeed more about improving the bottom line for large business than the safety of the nation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This does n't disclose the entire story .
NAIS involves far more than tracking cattle .
It includes tracking horses , sheep , poultry , etc .
It involves premises registration , every site where animals are kept must be registered and inspected .
Animals that are moved between sites or are commingled with other animals at locations such as auctions , feedlots , fairs , etc .
must be tracked .
Large producers can get group IDs where they only have to ID lots of animals , small producers must ID every animal .
This puts the load of the work on the small/backyard producer and not the large businesses .
Big agribusiness has been on board for this .
It has the potential to cut competition .
The purpose of NAIS is to allow tracking of diseased animals .
But first the animal must be identified as diseased .
There will be no increase in testing of animals or meat due to NAIS .
It will only allow the USDA to go back and find any animals who were associated with the diseased animal throughout it 's life .
The direction most countries have chosen is to increase inspection on animals and meat to remove the diseased animals from the chain before they are visibly ill and not wait until they have the chance to infect much larger numbers of animals that then have to be tracked back through contact records .
From what I have seen this is indeed more about improving the bottom line for large business than the safety of the nation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This doesn't disclose the entire story.
NAIS involves far more than tracking cattle.
It includes tracking horses, sheep, poultry, etc.
It involves premises registration, every site where animals are kept must be registered and inspected.
Animals that are moved between sites or are commingled with other animals at locations such as auctions, feedlots, fairs, etc.
must be tracked.
Large producers can get group IDs where they only have to ID lots of animals, small producers must ID every animal.
This puts the load of the work on the small/backyard producer and not the large businesses.
Big agribusiness has been on board for this.
It has the potential to cut competition.
The purpose of NAIS is to allow tracking of diseased animals.
But first the animal must be identified as diseased.
There will be no increase in testing of animals or meat due to NAIS.
It will only allow the USDA to go back and find any animals who were associated with the diseased animal throughout it's life.
The direction most countries have chosen is to increase inspection on animals and meat to remove the diseased animals from the chain before they are visibly ill and not wait until they have the chance to infect much larger numbers of animals that then have to be tracked back through contact records.
From what I have seen this is indeed more about improving the bottom line for large business than the safety of the nation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536141</id>
	<title>WHAT A LOAD OF BOVINE CRAP</title>
	<author>khams</author>
	<datestamp>1246363560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's the problem a lot of use have with NAIS.The NAIS was created as a "scientic" alternative to athe "unscientic" practice of actually testing the cattle for BSE. NAIS would effectively prohibit smaller prohibit those like myself with the capability to raise 1 or calves to slaughter weight. As it stands today NAIS applies to all live stock, even a flock of laying hens. Yes tags are cheap, readers and proprietary software aren't. The cost of BSE testing or even NAIS can be spread across producer, commodity trader, processor, retail chain, and consumer. Problem is no one wants to pay there share for a safe food supply. In the end the multinational corporations are going to control the food supply from insemination to your mouth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's the problem a lot of use have with NAIS.The NAIS was created as a " scientic " alternative to athe " unscientic " practice of actually testing the cattle for BSE .
NAIS would effectively prohibit smaller prohibit those like myself with the capability to raise 1 or calves to slaughter weight .
As it stands today NAIS applies to all live stock , even a flock of laying hens .
Yes tags are cheap , readers and proprietary software are n't .
The cost of BSE testing or even NAIS can be spread across producer , commodity trader , processor , retail chain , and consumer .
Problem is no one wants to pay there share for a safe food supply .
In the end the multinational corporations are going to control the food supply from insemination to your mouth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's the problem a lot of use have with NAIS.The NAIS was created as a "scientic" alternative to athe "unscientic" practice of actually testing the cattle for BSE.
NAIS would effectively prohibit smaller prohibit those like myself with the capability to raise 1 or calves to slaughter weight.
As it stands today NAIS applies to all live stock, even a flock of laying hens.
Yes tags are cheap, readers and proprietary software aren't.
The cost of BSE testing or even NAIS can be spread across producer, commodity trader, processor, retail chain, and consumer.
Problem is no one wants to pay there share for a safe food supply.
In the end the multinational corporations are going to control the food supply from insemination to your mouth.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535695</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246361220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I say let it go down. Regulate them into the dust.  (Full disclosure, I abhor the meat industry.)</p></div><p>It's fair to have that opinion, but you do realize that a LARGE part of the economy is dependant on cattle.  If you think the economy sucks now, let the "meat industry" (including dairy, fast food, grocery stores and numerous other) die.</p><p>Even if it all doesn't fall down like dominoes (and it would), you're talking about a lot of people losing their jobs, most of the physical area of the US falling into economic decay.  Maybe you didn't mean to flamebait, but geez, what you're talking about is pretty terrible stuff in reality.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I say let it go down .
Regulate them into the dust .
( Full disclosure , I abhor the meat industry .
) It 's fair to have that opinion , but you do realize that a LARGE part of the economy is dependant on cattle .
If you think the economy sucks now , let the " meat industry " ( including dairy , fast food , grocery stores and numerous other ) die.Even if it all does n't fall down like dominoes ( and it would ) , you 're talking about a lot of people losing their jobs , most of the physical area of the US falling into economic decay .
Maybe you did n't mean to flamebait , but geez , what you 're talking about is pretty terrible stuff in reality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I say let it go down.
Regulate them into the dust.
(Full disclosure, I abhor the meat industry.
)It's fair to have that opinion, but you do realize that a LARGE part of the economy is dependant on cattle.
If you think the economy sucks now, let the "meat industry" (including dairy, fast food, grocery stores and numerous other) die.Even if it all doesn't fall down like dominoes (and it would), you're talking about a lot of people losing their jobs, most of the physical area of the US falling into economic decay.
Maybe you didn't mean to flamebait, but geez, what you're talking about is pretty terrible stuff in reality.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537677</id>
	<title>Great idea, bad excuses</title>
	<author>multimediavt</author>
	<datestamp>1246374060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Small groups of cattle are often rounded up in distant spots and herded into a truck by a single person who could not simultaneously wield the hand-held scanner needed to record individual animal identities.</p></div><p>So. Once they're on the truck they ain't going anywhere. Scan them then!</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The ranchers also note that there is no Internet connection on many ranches for filing to a regional database.</p></div><p>Satellite. Cell-based internet. Lame excuse. Business expense that can be (partially) written off.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Small groups of cattle are often rounded up in distant spots and herded into a truck by a single person who could not simultaneously wield the hand-held scanner needed to record individual animal identities.So .
Once they 're on the truck they ai n't going anywhere .
Scan them then ! The ranchers also note that there is no Internet connection on many ranches for filing to a regional database.Satellite .
Cell-based internet .
Lame excuse .
Business expense that can be ( partially ) written off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Small groups of cattle are often rounded up in distant spots and herded into a truck by a single person who could not simultaneously wield the hand-held scanner needed to record individual animal identities.So.
Once they're on the truck they ain't going anywhere.
Scan them then!The ranchers also note that there is no Internet connection on many ranches for filing to a regional database.Satellite.
Cell-based internet.
Lame excuse.
Business expense that can be (partially) written off.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537637</id>
	<title>A sci-fi(?) solution</title>
	<author>LihTox</author>
	<datestamp>1246373760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK, this is probably too expensive, but maybe for the future: give each cow an RFID chip with a unique identifier.  The chip broadcasts its identity over a short distance, and any time the RFID chip detects another chip nearby, it adds it to an internal list.  When you find a sick cow, check its list: all those cows are problematic as well.  Of course, if some of those cows are out on the range you might not find them right away, but humans who interact with the cows carry detectors with them so that movement can be traced to some degree.  (Asking for strict monitoring of location may be difficult, but even sloppy monitoring is better than nothing.)</p><p>As to the proposed plan, I don't understand why ranchers would have to scan each cow individually; couldn't the chips be RFID chips and read from a distance.  Wouldn't it be enough to get them to walk through some sort of gate, or drive by the herd?  I don't really understand RFID but I know people are wrapping their passports in tinfoil because they're afraid of being detected, so it sounds like a human should be able to carry an RFID detector on their belt and have it register the cows automatically.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , this is probably too expensive , but maybe for the future : give each cow an RFID chip with a unique identifier .
The chip broadcasts its identity over a short distance , and any time the RFID chip detects another chip nearby , it adds it to an internal list .
When you find a sick cow , check its list : all those cows are problematic as well .
Of course , if some of those cows are out on the range you might not find them right away , but humans who interact with the cows carry detectors with them so that movement can be traced to some degree .
( Asking for strict monitoring of location may be difficult , but even sloppy monitoring is better than nothing .
) As to the proposed plan , I do n't understand why ranchers would have to scan each cow individually ; could n't the chips be RFID chips and read from a distance .
Would n't it be enough to get them to walk through some sort of gate , or drive by the herd ?
I do n't really understand RFID but I know people are wrapping their passports in tinfoil because they 're afraid of being detected , so it sounds like a human should be able to carry an RFID detector on their belt and have it register the cows automatically .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, this is probably too expensive, but maybe for the future: give each cow an RFID chip with a unique identifier.
The chip broadcasts its identity over a short distance, and any time the RFID chip detects another chip nearby, it adds it to an internal list.
When you find a sick cow, check its list: all those cows are problematic as well.
Of course, if some of those cows are out on the range you might not find them right away, but humans who interact with the cows carry detectors with them so that movement can be traced to some degree.
(Asking for strict monitoring of location may be difficult, but even sloppy monitoring is better than nothing.
)As to the proposed plan, I don't understand why ranchers would have to scan each cow individually; couldn't the chips be RFID chips and read from a distance.
Wouldn't it be enough to get them to walk through some sort of gate, or drive by the herd?
I don't really understand RFID but I know people are wrapping their passports in tinfoil because they're afraid of being detected, so it sounds like a human should be able to carry an RFID detector on their belt and have it register the cows automatically.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535749</id>
	<title>Actual costs?</title>
	<author>girlintraining</author>
	<datestamp>1246361520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're hemming and hawing about the costs? It's about $6 per tag today. Economy of scale could drive that a lot lower. And the tags can be removed and recycled into a new animal (betcha didn't know that!) -- after being properly sterilized, of course. They last about a 100+ years. The reader itself, as a handheld model runs anywhere from $150 to $1000 depending on range and other options. It's not necessary for it to connect to the internet or anything like that -- and the amount of data we're talking about could be handled via a 9600 baud modem! It's just a serial number for crissakes. Yes, farmers have teh intarwebs too. -\_-</p><p>Each beef cow is worth about $800. Assuming 10\% of the chips need to be replaced per... that's 60 cents. For something worth $800. The overhead here really is negligible, especially for a CAFO. That's an industrial feed lot, for those of you who don't know -- they're fed corn and kept in stalls, not grass-fed and left in fields. And did I mention it's all tax-deductible? Most everything on a farm is. Well, except you, that is. hehe.</p><p>So, in short... It's bull. Literally and figuratively.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>//Disclaimers: I have five dots in Lore:Rural. I am also a computer geek.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're hemming and hawing about the costs ?
It 's about $ 6 per tag today .
Economy of scale could drive that a lot lower .
And the tags can be removed and recycled into a new animal ( betcha did n't know that !
) -- after being properly sterilized , of course .
They last about a 100 + years .
The reader itself , as a handheld model runs anywhere from $ 150 to $ 1000 depending on range and other options .
It 's not necessary for it to connect to the internet or anything like that -- and the amount of data we 're talking about could be handled via a 9600 baud modem !
It 's just a serial number for crissakes .
Yes , farmers have teh intarwebs too .
- \ _-Each beef cow is worth about $ 800 .
Assuming 10 \ % of the chips need to be replaced per... that 's 60 cents .
For something worth $ 800 .
The overhead here really is negligible , especially for a CAFO .
That 's an industrial feed lot , for those of you who do n't know -- they 're fed corn and kept in stalls , not grass-fed and left in fields .
And did I mention it 's all tax-deductible ?
Most everything on a farm is .
Well , except you , that is .
hehe.So , in short... It 's bull .
Literally and figuratively .
//Disclaimers : I have five dots in Lore : Rural .
I am also a computer geek .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're hemming and hawing about the costs?
It's about $6 per tag today.
Economy of scale could drive that a lot lower.
And the tags can be removed and recycled into a new animal (betcha didn't know that!
) -- after being properly sterilized, of course.
They last about a 100+ years.
The reader itself, as a handheld model runs anywhere from $150 to $1000 depending on range and other options.
It's not necessary for it to connect to the internet or anything like that -- and the amount of data we're talking about could be handled via a 9600 baud modem!
It's just a serial number for crissakes.
Yes, farmers have teh intarwebs too.
-\_-Each beef cow is worth about $800.
Assuming 10\% of the chips need to be replaced per... that's 60 cents.
For something worth $800.
The overhead here really is negligible, especially for a CAFO.
That's an industrial feed lot, for those of you who don't know -- they're fed corn and kept in stalls, not grass-fed and left in fields.
And did I mention it's all tax-deductible?
Most everything on a farm is.
Well, except you, that is.
hehe.So, in short... It's bull.
Literally and figuratively.
//Disclaimers: I have five dots in Lore:Rural.
I am also a computer geek.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>Buelldozer</author>
	<datestamp>1246361160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What if "updating every week or so" meant driving 40 miles into town, one way, to use someone elses Internet connection? Now what if it's a verified blizzard outside with temperatures of 0F, 50MPH winds, and 10" of snow on the ground? What if your wife and kids are sick and there's no one else to get the chores done or help them out while you drive your happy butt 40 miles through a blizzard to send the government some bullshit data that the cattle ranchers in China don't?</p><p>My point is this, don't automatically assume an Internet connection is convenient or even available.</p><p>You likely live in an urban area and have no concept of how much free space there are in some of these cattle herding states. Like most people you're unable to step outside your own life experience and imagine the difficulties that someone else would have.</p><p>My next question is are we going to demand this for all IMPORTERS of beef or is this a burden that only good 'ol U.S. Ranchers are going to have to bear?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if " updating every week or so " meant driving 40 miles into town , one way , to use someone elses Internet connection ?
Now what if it 's a verified blizzard outside with temperatures of 0F , 50MPH winds , and 10 " of snow on the ground ?
What if your wife and kids are sick and there 's no one else to get the chores done or help them out while you drive your happy butt 40 miles through a blizzard to send the government some bullshit data that the cattle ranchers in China do n't ? My point is this , do n't automatically assume an Internet connection is convenient or even available.You likely live in an urban area and have no concept of how much free space there are in some of these cattle herding states .
Like most people you 're unable to step outside your own life experience and imagine the difficulties that someone else would have.My next question is are we going to demand this for all IMPORTERS of beef or is this a burden that only good 'ol U.S. Ranchers are going to have to bear ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if "updating every week or so" meant driving 40 miles into town, one way, to use someone elses Internet connection?
Now what if it's a verified blizzard outside with temperatures of 0F, 50MPH winds, and 10" of snow on the ground?
What if your wife and kids are sick and there's no one else to get the chores done or help them out while you drive your happy butt 40 miles through a blizzard to send the government some bullshit data that the cattle ranchers in China don't?My point is this, don't automatically assume an Internet connection is convenient or even available.You likely live in an urban area and have no concept of how much free space there are in some of these cattle herding states.
Like most people you're unable to step outside your own life experience and imagine the difficulties that someone else would have.My next question is are we going to demand this for all IMPORTERS of beef or is this a burden that only good 'ol U.S. Ranchers are going to have to bear?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536273</id>
	<title>Re:The Farmers are Right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246364160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You couldn't be more right.</p><p>I'm from a ranching family and every time something about mad cow disease comes up you can guarantee that it originated from feed lot cattle.  Range cattle do not have the health issues that feed lot cattle have.  When one of our cows gets sick, we keep it from the rest of the herd until it is either healthy again or is put down.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The cattle are branded with a unique brand so the rancher knows who it belongs to.</p></div><p>In addition to that, in small communities surrounded by ranches, posters that include the brands are hung in meat shop, grocery store butchery, Chamber of Commerce, and even in some gas station bathrooms(I kid you not) so that everyone knows where there meat is coming from and often who raised it.</p><p>If you want to have a healthier beef supply, stop buying beef from Wal-Marts, bulk stores, ect. and make sure you are buying prairie raised beef from meat markets.  It tastes a hell of a lot better too.  Nothing's quite better than beef that you've branded and butchered yourself.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You could n't be more right.I 'm from a ranching family and every time something about mad cow disease comes up you can guarantee that it originated from feed lot cattle .
Range cattle do not have the health issues that feed lot cattle have .
When one of our cows gets sick , we keep it from the rest of the herd until it is either healthy again or is put down.The cattle are branded with a unique brand so the rancher knows who it belongs to.In addition to that , in small communities surrounded by ranches , posters that include the brands are hung in meat shop , grocery store butchery , Chamber of Commerce , and even in some gas station bathrooms ( I kid you not ) so that everyone knows where there meat is coming from and often who raised it.If you want to have a healthier beef supply , stop buying beef from Wal-Marts , bulk stores , ect .
and make sure you are buying prairie raised beef from meat markets .
It tastes a hell of a lot better too .
Nothing 's quite better than beef that you 've branded and butchered yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You couldn't be more right.I'm from a ranching family and every time something about mad cow disease comes up you can guarantee that it originated from feed lot cattle.
Range cattle do not have the health issues that feed lot cattle have.
When one of our cows gets sick, we keep it from the rest of the herd until it is either healthy again or is put down.The cattle are branded with a unique brand so the rancher knows who it belongs to.In addition to that, in small communities surrounded by ranches, posters that include the brands are hung in meat shop, grocery store butchery, Chamber of Commerce, and even in some gas station bathrooms(I kid you not) so that everyone knows where there meat is coming from and often who raised it.If you want to have a healthier beef supply, stop buying beef from Wal-Marts, bulk stores, ect.
and make sure you are buying prairie raised beef from meat markets.
It tastes a hell of a lot better too.
Nothing's quite better than beef that you've branded and butchered yourself.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535639</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536751</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>Solandri</author>
	<datestamp>1246366860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><blockquote><div><p>    I call BS. If I stole a cow from one of those giant farms, the damn rancher'd be able to identify it in a second, but the instant you want to track something for public safety reasons, "there is no way they could ever collect that information."</p></div></blockquote><p>
I call BS on your BS. If we were talking about corporate feed lots it would be one thing, but a very significant percentage of the US beef herd is raised by independent cattle producers on open range in very sparsely populated country. It can take months to find all of your cattle to tag them in the first place, so it is very easy to "lose" cattle without noticing.</p></div></blockquote><p>
I can vouch for this.  My previous workplace was adjacent to a free-range cattle ranch.  Occasionally someone would leave a gate open or the cattle would manage to knock part of a fence down, and the cattle would roam onto our property.  The only way the rancher found out about it is because we called him to collect his cattle off our property.  Which he did with some farm hands on horseback, complete with lassos and the whole cowboy shebang.  We joked with him about keeping one of the cows for a barbecue next time, and I got the impression they lost cattle to theft, death, or predation all the time with no clue as to exactly what happened to the individual cow/steer.  It was just a cost of doing business, like "shrinkage" (shoplifting) is in retail.
<br> <br>
This really smells like an attempt by agribusiness to kill the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range" title="wikipedia.org">free-range</a> [wikipedia.org] cattle industry, which is mostly mom and pop operations.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I call BS .
If I stole a cow from one of those giant farms , the damn rancher 'd be able to identify it in a second , but the instant you want to track something for public safety reasons , " there is no way they could ever collect that information .
" I call BS on your BS .
If we were talking about corporate feed lots it would be one thing , but a very significant percentage of the US beef herd is raised by independent cattle producers on open range in very sparsely populated country .
It can take months to find all of your cattle to tag them in the first place , so it is very easy to " lose " cattle without noticing .
I can vouch for this .
My previous workplace was adjacent to a free-range cattle ranch .
Occasionally someone would leave a gate open or the cattle would manage to knock part of a fence down , and the cattle would roam onto our property .
The only way the rancher found out about it is because we called him to collect his cattle off our property .
Which he did with some farm hands on horseback , complete with lassos and the whole cowboy shebang .
We joked with him about keeping one of the cows for a barbecue next time , and I got the impression they lost cattle to theft , death , or predation all the time with no clue as to exactly what happened to the individual cow/steer .
It was just a cost of doing business , like " shrinkage " ( shoplifting ) is in retail .
This really smells like an attempt by agribusiness to kill the free-range [ wikipedia.org ] cattle industry , which is mostly mom and pop operations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>    I call BS.
If I stole a cow from one of those giant farms, the damn rancher'd be able to identify it in a second, but the instant you want to track something for public safety reasons, "there is no way they could ever collect that information.
"
I call BS on your BS.
If we were talking about corporate feed lots it would be one thing, but a very significant percentage of the US beef herd is raised by independent cattle producers on open range in very sparsely populated country.
It can take months to find all of your cattle to tag them in the first place, so it is very easy to "lose" cattle without noticing.
I can vouch for this.
My previous workplace was adjacent to a free-range cattle ranch.
Occasionally someone would leave a gate open or the cattle would manage to knock part of a fence down, and the cattle would roam onto our property.
The only way the rancher found out about it is because we called him to collect his cattle off our property.
Which he did with some farm hands on horseback, complete with lassos and the whole cowboy shebang.
We joked with him about keeping one of the cows for a barbecue next time, and I got the impression they lost cattle to theft, death, or predation all the time with no clue as to exactly what happened to the individual cow/steer.
It was just a cost of doing business, like "shrinkage" (shoplifting) is in retail.
This really smells like an attempt by agribusiness to kill the free-range [wikipedia.org] cattle industry, which is mostly mom and pop operations.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535557</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246360500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's fine, we abhor you too.
<br>
<br>
-The Meat Industry.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's fine , we abhor you too .
-The Meat Industry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's fine, we abhor you too.
-The Meat Industry.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535897</id>
	<title>Pfft</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246362360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>(Speaking as someone who works within one of the largest meatworks company in Australia, so each to their own)</p><p>Over here in Australia, we have had a National Livestock Identification Scheme (NLIS) RFID ear tags on cows for about the last 3 yrs.</p><p>The tags themselves work out to about $3.50AU ea. The growers were a bit unhappy at the start but it was compulsory so they got over it. Im sure prices were jacked up accordingly to cover the cost.</p><p>All the info is stored in a goverment owned db and at time of slaughter or sale can checked to confirm that the cow was free from disease.</p><p>The most expensive part is probably the RFID wands as there is only one company in Australia that specializes in RFID wands for the cattle industry.</p><p>Anyway, in the end. The small growers are still alive and doing well. Nothings really changed, except now there is a tracking system for cows to ensure quality meat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( Speaking as someone who works within one of the largest meatworks company in Australia , so each to their own ) Over here in Australia , we have had a National Livestock Identification Scheme ( NLIS ) RFID ear tags on cows for about the last 3 yrs.The tags themselves work out to about $ 3.50AU ea .
The growers were a bit unhappy at the start but it was compulsory so they got over it .
Im sure prices were jacked up accordingly to cover the cost.All the info is stored in a goverment owned db and at time of slaughter or sale can checked to confirm that the cow was free from disease.The most expensive part is probably the RFID wands as there is only one company in Australia that specializes in RFID wands for the cattle industry.Anyway , in the end .
The small growers are still alive and doing well .
Nothings really changed , except now there is a tracking system for cows to ensure quality meat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(Speaking as someone who works within one of the largest meatworks company in Australia, so each to their own)Over here in Australia, we have had a National Livestock Identification Scheme (NLIS) RFID ear tags on cows for about the last 3 yrs.The tags themselves work out to about $3.50AU ea.
The growers were a bit unhappy at the start but it was compulsory so they got over it.
Im sure prices were jacked up accordingly to cover the cost.All the info is stored in a goverment owned db and at time of slaughter or sale can checked to confirm that the cow was free from disease.The most expensive part is probably the RFID wands as there is only one company in Australia that specializes in RFID wands for the cattle industry.Anyway, in the end.
The small growers are still alive and doing well.
Nothings really changed, except now there is a tracking system for cows to ensure quality meat.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540913</id>
	<title>the reason</title>
	<author>markringen</author>
	<datestamp>1246455480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>the reason why europe and everyone else banned US beef is because it can't be traced...
and it's filled with hormones and steroids which are both banned in europe..</htmltext>
<tokenext>the reason why europe and everyone else banned US beef is because it ca n't be traced.. . and it 's filled with hormones and steroids which are both banned in europe. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the reason why europe and everyone else banned US beef is because it can't be traced...
and it's filled with hormones and steroids which are both banned in europe..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28539185</id>
	<title>Re:Personally Speaking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246390140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I'd pay more for them to change the way they do business rather than DIE from consuming their PRODUCT.</i> </p><p>The implication is that you won't educate yourself, research healthiest/safest alternatives, and <b>then</b> pay more voluntarily.  As such, your willingness to pay more indicates that you think it is OK so long as the burden is not on your shoulders.  Also, you may be so generous with your money, I assure you that your grocer is not.  Your grocer has to select from domestic (tagged? more money) and imported (untagged - less money) sources.  The grocer has to compete with grocers facing the same choice.  Congrats on exporting jobs out of the country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd pay more for them to change the way they do business rather than DIE from consuming their PRODUCT .
The implication is that you wo n't educate yourself , research healthiest/safest alternatives , and then pay more voluntarily .
As such , your willingness to pay more indicates that you think it is OK so long as the burden is not on your shoulders .
Also , you may be so generous with your money , I assure you that your grocer is not .
Your grocer has to select from domestic ( tagged ?
more money ) and imported ( untagged - less money ) sources .
The grocer has to compete with grocers facing the same choice .
Congrats on exporting jobs out of the country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd pay more for them to change the way they do business rather than DIE from consuming their PRODUCT.
The implication is that you won't educate yourself, research healthiest/safest alternatives, and then pay more voluntarily.
As such, your willingness to pay more indicates that you think it is OK so long as the burden is not on your shoulders.
Also, you may be so generous with your money, I assure you that your grocer is not.
Your grocer has to select from domestic (tagged?
more money) and imported (untagged - less money) sources.
The grocer has to compete with grocers facing the same choice.
Congrats on exporting jobs out of the country.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535543</id>
	<title>Internet not Required</title>
	<author>AK Marc</author>
	<datestamp>1246360380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, if these places don't have Internet, then have a way for them to send in the changes.  It should be a simple "cow XXXX received 1/1/01" and "cow YYYY departed 2/2/02" and that should be something that could be tracked by hand, if necessary.  Make the tracking required (with microchips and matching ear-tags).  Let the ranchers figure out whether tracking electronically or by hand is easier.<br> <br>Oh, and if the beef industry is about to go under, it's only because the cows have unionized and the bulls will be headed to Congress to ask for a bailout.  They may not make much profit, but their product is not very elastic so everyone would just bump up the cost a little and their sales wouldn't take a huge hit, so they can "teeter" another 200 years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , if these places do n't have Internet , then have a way for them to send in the changes .
It should be a simple " cow XXXX received 1/1/01 " and " cow YYYY departed 2/2/02 " and that should be something that could be tracked by hand , if necessary .
Make the tracking required ( with microchips and matching ear-tags ) .
Let the ranchers figure out whether tracking electronically or by hand is easier .
Oh , and if the beef industry is about to go under , it 's only because the cows have unionized and the bulls will be headed to Congress to ask for a bailout .
They may not make much profit , but their product is not very elastic so everyone would just bump up the cost a little and their sales would n't take a huge hit , so they can " teeter " another 200 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, if these places don't have Internet, then have a way for them to send in the changes.
It should be a simple "cow XXXX received 1/1/01" and "cow YYYY departed 2/2/02" and that should be something that could be tracked by hand, if necessary.
Make the tracking required (with microchips and matching ear-tags).
Let the ranchers figure out whether tracking electronically or by hand is easier.
Oh, and if the beef industry is about to go under, it's only because the cows have unionized and the bulls will be headed to Congress to ask for a bailout.
They may not make much profit, but their product is not very elastic so everyone would just bump up the cost a little and their sales wouldn't take a huge hit, so they can "teeter" another 200 years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537945</id>
	<title>More BS to concentrate power to factory farms</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246376400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have any of you ever looked at the animal chip ID law?</p><p>Check out the part for chickens.</p><p>You can either chip your chickens *OR* retinal scan them.   Yup.  $15-$40 a chicken to chip the bird that is only going to be alive for 6-8 weeks as a meat bird, or you can invest $30,000 for a retinal scanner.</p><p>And the 'law is the law' so if you normally ordered or got yourself a flock of 50-100 birds so you can freeze them - what makes 'economic sense' when the fine per non-compliant animal is in the thousands?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have any of you ever looked at the animal chip ID law ? Check out the part for chickens.You can either chip your chickens * OR * retinal scan them .
Yup. $ 15- $ 40 a chicken to chip the bird that is only going to be alive for 6-8 weeks as a meat bird , or you can invest $ 30,000 for a retinal scanner.And the 'law is the law ' so if you normally ordered or got yourself a flock of 50-100 birds so you can freeze them - what makes 'economic sense ' when the fine per non-compliant animal is in the thousands ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have any of you ever looked at the animal chip ID law?Check out the part for chickens.You can either chip your chickens *OR* retinal scan them.
Yup.  $15-$40 a chicken to chip the bird that is only going to be alive for 6-8 weeks as a meat bird, or you can invest $30,000 for a retinal scanner.And the 'law is the law' so if you normally ordered or got yourself a flock of 50-100 birds so you can freeze them - what makes 'economic sense' when the fine per non-compliant animal is in the thousands?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537475</id>
	<title>Re:The Farmers are Right</title>
	<author>dave420</author>
	<datestamp>1246372500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So it shouldn't be used because shitty practices by farmers will come to light?  The horror!</htmltext>
<tokenext>So it should n't be used because shitty practices by farmers will come to light ?
The horror !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So it shouldn't be used because shitty practices by farmers will come to light?
The horror!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535639</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538181</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246378740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>send the government some bullshit data that the cattle ranchers in China don't?</p></div><p>That cattle ranchers in China probably pump lead and mercury into their cattle too. I guess we should just follow their lead.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>send the government some bullshit data that the cattle ranchers in China do n't ? That cattle ranchers in China probably pump lead and mercury into their cattle too .
I guess we should just follow their lead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>send the government some bullshit data that the cattle ranchers in China don't?That cattle ranchers in China probably pump lead and mercury into their cattle too.
I guess we should just follow their lead.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536715</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246366620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To the best of my knowledge, we've had the same - or a very similar - system in place here in Ireland (and the EU) for a good few years now. In fact, the farmers here kicked up a stink over the import of non EU beef as it didn't have to be kept to the same standard (and tracing) as EU beef.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To the best of my knowledge , we 've had the same - or a very similar - system in place here in Ireland ( and the EU ) for a good few years now .
In fact , the farmers here kicked up a stink over the import of non EU beef as it did n't have to be kept to the same standard ( and tracing ) as EU beef .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To the best of my knowledge, we've had the same - or a very similar - system in place here in Ireland (and the EU) for a good few years now.
In fact, the farmers here kicked up a stink over the import of non EU beef as it didn't have to be kept to the same standard (and tracing) as EU beef.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536807</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246367160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>New Zealand can and does track all cattle from birth to slaughterhouse. I don't think we use rfid to do it, but we do do it.<br>and our beef is globally competitive.<br>And its disease free.<br>And its high quality.</p><p>the specifics of the us program might not be ideal, but the need to track the history of our food animals, and respond quickly to possible cross infection reduces the risk of having to do UK style destruction of entire herds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>New Zealand can and does track all cattle from birth to slaughterhouse .
I do n't think we use rfid to do it , but we do do it.and our beef is globally competitive.And its disease free.And its high quality.the specifics of the us program might not be ideal , but the need to track the history of our food animals , and respond quickly to possible cross infection reduces the risk of having to do UK style destruction of entire herds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>New Zealand can and does track all cattle from birth to slaughterhouse.
I don't think we use rfid to do it, but we do do it.and our beef is globally competitive.And its disease free.And its high quality.the specifics of the us program might not be ideal, but the need to track the history of our food animals, and respond quickly to possible cross infection reduces the risk of having to do UK style destruction of entire herds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535859</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246362180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hell yeah!  Let's replace them with some nice camps where we can slaughter vegan scum.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hell yeah !
Let 's replace them with some nice camps where we can slaughter vegan scum .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hell yeah!
Let's replace them with some nice camps where we can slaughter vegan scum.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535461</id>
	<title>Tracking</title>
	<author>Ohio Calvinist</author>
	<datestamp>1246360020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The difference is that if a person contracts a disease that is a public health risk, the person is generally able to tell physicians who he/she might have had contact with so that person can get treatment, possibily saving their life and slowing the disease spread. Cows can't tell investigators where they have been and who should be notified.<br> <br>
Regarding the cost, I can't imagine that this would be more expensive that the cost of destroying entire herds of cattle when one cow comes down with a confirmed or probable case of these diseases. Being able to isolate the infected could decrease the numbers needed to be destoyed saving money. The difference is that farms can claim the loss of the animal in insurance which is a sunk cost, versus a preventative cost. This would save money upstream as well in the form of smaller recalls to distributors, which seem to happen more and more frequently in the US.<br> <br>
Internet access isn't a good excuse as a low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be enough to report via SOAP web-service to whatever database; not to mention that every industry has costs-of-doing-business and this will/could be one of those things.<br> <br>
I haven't read enough to comment on the implementation of this plan but on the surface, I can't see why this wouldn't be a good idea from a public health perspective.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The difference is that if a person contracts a disease that is a public health risk , the person is generally able to tell physicians who he/she might have had contact with so that person can get treatment , possibily saving their life and slowing the disease spread .
Cows ca n't tell investigators where they have been and who should be notified .
Regarding the cost , I ca n't imagine that this would be more expensive that the cost of destroying entire herds of cattle when one cow comes down with a confirmed or probable case of these diseases .
Being able to isolate the infected could decrease the numbers needed to be destoyed saving money .
The difference is that farms can claim the loss of the animal in insurance which is a sunk cost , versus a preventative cost .
This would save money upstream as well in the form of smaller recalls to distributors , which seem to happen more and more frequently in the US .
Internet access is n't a good excuse as a low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be enough to report via SOAP web-service to whatever database ; not to mention that every industry has costs-of-doing-business and this will/could be one of those things .
I have n't read enough to comment on the implementation of this plan but on the surface , I ca n't see why this would n't be a good idea from a public health perspective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The difference is that if a person contracts a disease that is a public health risk, the person is generally able to tell physicians who he/she might have had contact with so that person can get treatment, possibily saving their life and slowing the disease spread.
Cows can't tell investigators where they have been and who should be notified.
Regarding the cost, I can't imagine that this would be more expensive that the cost of destroying entire herds of cattle when one cow comes down with a confirmed or probable case of these diseases.
Being able to isolate the infected could decrease the numbers needed to be destoyed saving money.
The difference is that farms can claim the loss of the animal in insurance which is a sunk cost, versus a preventative cost.
This would save money upstream as well in the form of smaller recalls to distributors, which seem to happen more and more frequently in the US.
Internet access isn't a good excuse as a low-bandwidth cellular scanner would be enough to report via SOAP web-service to whatever database; not to mention that every industry has costs-of-doing-business and this will/could be one of those things.
I haven't read enough to comment on the implementation of this plan but on the surface, I can't see why this wouldn't be a good idea from a public health perspective.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540853</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>LanMan04</author>
	<datestamp>1246455000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mail in the SD card via USPS, get a fresh one back in the mail a few days later.  Problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mail in the SD card via USPS , get a fresh one back in the mail a few days later .
Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mail in the SD card via USPS, get a fresh one back in the mail a few days later.
Problem solved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535429</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246359960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can take my bacon when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can take my bacon when you pry it out of my cold , dead hands .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can take my bacon when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537187</id>
	<title>Re:Regulation</title>
	<author>Curunir\_wolf</author>
	<datestamp>1246370460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>It 1) Improved public perception of the safety of meat, increasing sales,</p></div></blockquote><p>Forget perception. It improved the safety, and quality, of meat full stop.</p></div><p>I'm not so <a href="http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/02/salmonella\_history.html" title="consumeraffairs.com">sure about that</a> [consumeraffairs.com].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 1 ) Improved public perception of the safety of meat , increasing sales,Forget perception .
It improved the safety , and quality , of meat full stop.I 'm not so sure about that [ consumeraffairs.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It 1) Improved public perception of the safety of meat, increasing sales,Forget perception.
It improved the safety, and quality, of meat full stop.I'm not so sure about that [consumeraffairs.com].
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535937</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537173</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>crmarvin42</author>
	<datestamp>1246370400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Since ranchers in the situation you outline have to round up their new calves periodically anyway, they will just tag the animals when they leave the farm.  AFAIK, these regulations will not require cattle to be taged the day they are born, but when they are to be transported.  If you want to tag all your cows at birth becuase you run an intensive operation that's fine, but if you run more of a range operation where you let them fend for themselves and only round them up a couple of times a year to go to market, then just tag them when they leave.  That way if one of them turns up with Hoof and Mouth, they know which animals they've contacted and can warn you that some of your land may be a reservior.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Since ranchers in the situation you outline have to round up their new calves periodically anyway , they will just tag the animals when they leave the farm .
AFAIK , these regulations will not require cattle to be taged the day they are born , but when they are to be transported .
If you want to tag all your cows at birth becuase you run an intensive operation that 's fine , but if you run more of a range operation where you let them fend for themselves and only round them up a couple of times a year to go to market , then just tag them when they leave .
That way if one of them turns up with Hoof and Mouth , they know which animals they 've contacted and can warn you that some of your land may be a reservior .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since ranchers in the situation you outline have to round up their new calves periodically anyway, they will just tag the animals when they leave the farm.
AFAIK, these regulations will not require cattle to be taged the day they are born, but when they are to be transported.
If you want to tag all your cows at birth becuase you run an intensive operation that's fine, but if you run more of a range operation where you let them fend for themselves and only round them up a couple of times a year to go to market, then just tag them when they leave.
That way if one of them turns up with Hoof and Mouth, they know which animals they've contacted and can warn you that some of your land may be a reservior.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28539905</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246443000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>
Beef ranching in the western US does not work the way you think it does. Much of the basic logistics of it have not changed much since the 19th century.
</p></div><p>So then maybe its about time?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Beef ranching in the western US does not work the way you think it does .
Much of the basic logistics of it have not changed much since the 19th century .
So then maybe its about time ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Beef ranching in the western US does not work the way you think it does.
Much of the basic logistics of it have not changed much since the 19th century.
So then maybe its about time?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536091</id>
	<title>More technology wont solve the root of the problem</title>
	<author>SuperCharlie</author>
	<datestamp>1246363200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When ya get a few thousand cows stomping around in their shit all day long eating things they were never meant to eat and getting injected with cocktails of chemicals.. tracking them really doesn't seem like the problem to me..</htmltext>
<tokenext>When ya get a few thousand cows stomping around in their shit all day long eating things they were never meant to eat and getting injected with cocktails of chemicals.. tracking them really does n't seem like the problem to me. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When ya get a few thousand cows stomping around in their shit all day long eating things they were never meant to eat and getting injected with cocktails of chemicals.. tracking them really doesn't seem like the problem to me..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536471</id>
	<title>Quick .. get that domain name!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246365180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>cowfax.com - ask your butcher "Show me the CowFax"!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>cowfax.com - ask your butcher " Show me the CowFax " !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>cowfax.com - ask your butcher "Show me the CowFax"!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535945</id>
	<title>I see.</title>
	<author>MBCook</author>
	<datestamp>1246362600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That program sounds fantastic to me. And this opinion is not <a href="http://www.legalcasedocs.com/120/246/531.html" title="legalcasedocs.com">influenced at all</a> [legalcasedocs.com] by the beef industry.</p><p>I might say that maybe we should just start by making it illegal to feed animals (especially old/diseased animals) to herbivore livestock. Or maybe make antibiotic feed illegal. Maybe just require labeling of if you use antibiotics or GE meat.</p><p>But <b> <i>I</i> </b> wouldn't say any of that. I love the Texas beef industry.</p><p> <i>*please don't sue me*</i></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That program sounds fantastic to me .
And this opinion is not influenced at all [ legalcasedocs.com ] by the beef industry.I might say that maybe we should just start by making it illegal to feed animals ( especially old/diseased animals ) to herbivore livestock .
Or maybe make antibiotic feed illegal .
Maybe just require labeling of if you use antibiotics or GE meat.But I would n't say any of that .
I love the Texas beef industry .
* please do n't sue me *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That program sounds fantastic to me.
And this opinion is not influenced at all [legalcasedocs.com] by the beef industry.I might say that maybe we should just start by making it illegal to feed animals (especially old/diseased animals) to herbivore livestock.
Or maybe make antibiotic feed illegal.
Maybe just require labeling of if you use antibiotics or GE meat.But  I  wouldn't say any of that.
I love the Texas beef industry.
*please don't sue me*</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537197</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>OpenGLFan</author>
	<datestamp>1246370520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I grew up on a small cattle farm, so I know what I'm talking about.  You absolutely have to sterilize young bulls, or they'll challenge the older bulls, and you'll wind up with a bloody bullpen instead of a lot of happy, complaining cows.  So that's 50\% of each year's herd you have to spend at least 15 seconds of...<i>intensely personal</i> time with anyway.</p><p>Secondly, cows aren't cats, but if one person is herding a small group of cattle then he's doing it through a chute or with a small bucket of feed.  Again, this is completely not a problem.</p><p>Small cattle ranches obey Sturgeon's Law exactly like any other small groups.  They whiners are just complaining because they aren't going to be able to hide downer cows or sell the sick ones before anybody notices.  (Which, by the way, is one reason we raised our own, until my brother and I went to college and there was no more farm help.)</p><p>If I were still on my parents' farm, I'd welcome this move 100\%, even restricted to the 28.8Kbps modem my parents still use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I grew up on a small cattle farm , so I know what I 'm talking about .
You absolutely have to sterilize young bulls , or they 'll challenge the older bulls , and you 'll wind up with a bloody bullpen instead of a lot of happy , complaining cows .
So that 's 50 \ % of each year 's herd you have to spend at least 15 seconds of...intensely personal time with anyway.Secondly , cows are n't cats , but if one person is herding a small group of cattle then he 's doing it through a chute or with a small bucket of feed .
Again , this is completely not a problem.Small cattle ranches obey Sturgeon 's Law exactly like any other small groups .
They whiners are just complaining because they are n't going to be able to hide downer cows or sell the sick ones before anybody notices .
( Which , by the way , is one reason we raised our own , until my brother and I went to college and there was no more farm help .
) If I were still on my parents ' farm , I 'd welcome this move 100 \ % , even restricted to the 28.8Kbps modem my parents still use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I grew up on a small cattle farm, so I know what I'm talking about.
You absolutely have to sterilize young bulls, or they'll challenge the older bulls, and you'll wind up with a bloody bullpen instead of a lot of happy, complaining cows.
So that's 50\% of each year's herd you have to spend at least 15 seconds of...intensely personal time with anyway.Secondly, cows aren't cats, but if one person is herding a small group of cattle then he's doing it through a chute or with a small bucket of feed.
Again, this is completely not a problem.Small cattle ranches obey Sturgeon's Law exactly like any other small groups.
They whiners are just complaining because they aren't going to be able to hide downer cows or sell the sick ones before anybody notices.
(Which, by the way, is one reason we raised our own, until my brother and I went to college and there was no more farm help.
)If I were still on my parents' farm, I'd welcome this move 100\%, even restricted to the 28.8Kbps modem my parents still use.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536113</id>
	<title>Re:Regulation</title>
	<author>labnet</author>
	<datestamp>1246363380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our company makes RFID equipment specifically for this industry.<br>Contrary to your view of 'putting small producers out of business' is not the case.<br>Producers who do not have RFID equipment, either have freelance scanners, or the anmimals are scanned at the sale yards.<br>The equipment is reltively cheap for small producers (ie the hand held readers) and access to the database industry paid for.<br>So it adds a couple of $ overhead. If their margins are that small, then they shouldn't be in the business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our company makes RFID equipment specifically for this industry.Contrary to your view of 'putting small producers out of business ' is not the case.Producers who do not have RFID equipment , either have freelance scanners , or the anmimals are scanned at the sale yards.The equipment is reltively cheap for small producers ( ie the hand held readers ) and access to the database industry paid for.So it adds a couple of $ overhead .
If their margins are that small , then they should n't be in the business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our company makes RFID equipment specifically for this industry.Contrary to your view of 'putting small producers out of business' is not the case.Producers who do not have RFID equipment, either have freelance scanners, or the anmimals are scanned at the sale yards.The equipment is reltively cheap for small producers (ie the hand held readers) and access to the database industry paid for.So it adds a couple of $ overhead.
If their margins are that small, then they shouldn't be in the business.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535399</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537093</id>
	<title>Re:The Farmers are Right</title>
	<author>jcnnghm</author>
	<datestamp>1246369800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to mention the fact that there have only been three cases of mad cow disease in the United States in the last 16 years.  One of which was imported from Canada.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention the fact that there have only been three cases of mad cow disease in the United States in the last 16 years .
One of which was imported from Canada .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention the fact that there have only been three cases of mad cow disease in the United States in the last 16 years.
One of which was imported from Canada.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535639</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535969</id>
	<title>Re:A "teetering industry"?</title>
	<author>Robin47</author>
	<datestamp>1246362660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, Like in cow tipping?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , Like in cow tipping ?
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, Like in cow tipping?
:-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535787</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246361760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>(I'm a different AC.)</p><p>I don't want to go so far as to call you an idiot, but I'll note that "this is going to hurt the small sustainable ranchers while benefiting the large-scale industry" is a CLAIM made by those small ranchers, not necessarily a fact. It's in the summary, yes, but it shouldn't be treated as fact right away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( I 'm a different AC .
) I do n't want to go so far as to call you an idiot , but I 'll note that " this is going to hurt the small sustainable ranchers while benefiting the large-scale industry " is a CLAIM made by those small ranchers , not necessarily a fact .
It 's in the summary , yes , but it should n't be treated as fact right away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(I'm a different AC.
)I don't want to go so far as to call you an idiot, but I'll note that "this is going to hurt the small sustainable ranchers while benefiting the large-scale industry" is a CLAIM made by those small ranchers, not necessarily a fact.
It's in the summary, yes, but it shouldn't be treated as fact right away.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28543533</id>
	<title>a no bull summary from JW Rawles</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246467600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>SurvivalBlog.com &#169;2006 James Wesley, Rawles</p><p>Note: Permission to reprint, repost or forward the following article in full is granted, but only if it is not edited or excerpted.<br>From the Editors of www.SurvivalBlog.com:<br>The National Animal Identification System (NAIS)</p><p>The USDA and the Agrobiz giants have been crafting a national animal identification scheme that threatens the traditional freedom of self sufficiency, the privacy of Americans, and the livelihood of organic farmers, and family farms. The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is the creation of the Agrobiz giants Monsanto, Cargill Meat, National Pork Producers, and others to monopolize American food production using fear tactics to advance their agenda. The NAIS scheme was not created by any act of congress. Rather, it is merely a presumptuous bureaucratic dictate.</p><p>The NAIS plan requires two types of mandatory registration for everyone who owns even just one "livestock" animal. Every person who owns even just one horse, donkey, chicken, pigeon, goat, llama, sheep, pig, cow, alpaca, duck, farmed fish, etc. must register their name, home address, telephone number and Global Positioning System (GPS) coordinates of their home in a Federal database.  Secondly, in order for any animal to leave its birth farm, the owner will be required to obtain a Federal ID number for it which will be kept in a national data base and have the animal biochipped. Animals will have to be registered if they leave the farm for any reason; to go on a trail ride, to go to a show or fair, to be bought or sold, to be bred by a stud on another farm, or to be taken to the local butcher, or anywhere else. The most likely type of ID will be a bio-microchip containing a low power radio transmitter so that the chips can be read from a distance. NAIS would allow "industry" to decide if retinal scans and DNA samples would also be required. Of course large scale Agrobiz has exempted itself from individual identification. (Agrobiz producers will be allowed to use one ID number for groups of hundreds or even thousands of animals that are raised and processed together.)<br>Americans will be required to report every time an animal enters or leaves their property, every time an animal loses a tag, every time a tag is replaced, the slaughter or death of an animal, or if an animal is missing. Such events must be reported in 24 hours or owners would suffer an as yet unspecified penalty. Small family farms and organic farmers will be driven out of business by the costs of premises registration fees, individual animal ID fees, event reporting fees, electronic tags or chips, electronic readers, home computers, Internet access, phone service, and reporting software. According to the USDA's plan all of these costs will be born by the animal owners.</p><p>NAIS might enhance Agrobiz's export markets and allow tracing of animal movements to track disease outbreaks which is its stated goal. But it will not make the American consumer safer. The most common type of meat contamination in the United States is bacterial, such as E coli. and Listeria. It is not discovered until masses of people become ill. Since Agrobiz processes meat in huge packing plants with thousands of animals being slaughtered a day, NAIS is useless to determine if the contamination was from one animal, multiple animals, or unsanitary conditions at the packing plant itself. Contaminated meat from giant Agrobiz processor is sent to all 50 states endangering millions of consumers simultaneously. On the other hand family farms, organic farmers, and private citizens their animals in natural and healthy conditions because they are raising their animals for themselves and their neighbors' tables. When they are driven out of the market, America's food supply will become less safe not more so. The consolidation of America's food supply by Agrobiz makes it more vulnerable to terrorists. As Americas meat industry becomes a giant monopoly where all meat is processed in a few giant packing plants then it becomes easier fo</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>SurvivalBlog.com   2006 James Wesley , RawlesNote : Permission to reprint , repost or forward the following article in full is granted , but only if it is not edited or excerpted.From the Editors of www.SurvivalBlog.com : The National Animal Identification System ( NAIS ) The USDA and the Agrobiz giants have been crafting a national animal identification scheme that threatens the traditional freedom of self sufficiency , the privacy of Americans , and the livelihood of organic farmers , and family farms .
The National Animal Identification System ( NAIS ) is the creation of the Agrobiz giants Monsanto , Cargill Meat , National Pork Producers , and others to monopolize American food production using fear tactics to advance their agenda .
The NAIS scheme was not created by any act of congress .
Rather , it is merely a presumptuous bureaucratic dictate.The NAIS plan requires two types of mandatory registration for everyone who owns even just one " livestock " animal .
Every person who owns even just one horse , donkey , chicken , pigeon , goat , llama , sheep , pig , cow , alpaca , duck , farmed fish , etc .
must register their name , home address , telephone number and Global Positioning System ( GPS ) coordinates of their home in a Federal database .
Secondly , in order for any animal to leave its birth farm , the owner will be required to obtain a Federal ID number for it which will be kept in a national data base and have the animal biochipped .
Animals will have to be registered if they leave the farm for any reason ; to go on a trail ride , to go to a show or fair , to be bought or sold , to be bred by a stud on another farm , or to be taken to the local butcher , or anywhere else .
The most likely type of ID will be a bio-microchip containing a low power radio transmitter so that the chips can be read from a distance .
NAIS would allow " industry " to decide if retinal scans and DNA samples would also be required .
Of course large scale Agrobiz has exempted itself from individual identification .
( Agrobiz producers will be allowed to use one ID number for groups of hundreds or even thousands of animals that are raised and processed together .
) Americans will be required to report every time an animal enters or leaves their property , every time an animal loses a tag , every time a tag is replaced , the slaughter or death of an animal , or if an animal is missing .
Such events must be reported in 24 hours or owners would suffer an as yet unspecified penalty .
Small family farms and organic farmers will be driven out of business by the costs of premises registration fees , individual animal ID fees , event reporting fees , electronic tags or chips , electronic readers , home computers , Internet access , phone service , and reporting software .
According to the USDA 's plan all of these costs will be born by the animal owners.NAIS might enhance Agrobiz 's export markets and allow tracing of animal movements to track disease outbreaks which is its stated goal .
But it will not make the American consumer safer .
The most common type of meat contamination in the United States is bacterial , such as E coli .
and Listeria .
It is not discovered until masses of people become ill. Since Agrobiz processes meat in huge packing plants with thousands of animals being slaughtered a day , NAIS is useless to determine if the contamination was from one animal , multiple animals , or unsanitary conditions at the packing plant itself .
Contaminated meat from giant Agrobiz processor is sent to all 50 states endangering millions of consumers simultaneously .
On the other hand family farms , organic farmers , and private citizens their animals in natural and healthy conditions because they are raising their animals for themselves and their neighbors ' tables .
When they are driven out of the market , America 's food supply will become less safe not more so .
The consolidation of America 's food supply by Agrobiz makes it more vulnerable to terrorists .
As Americas meat industry becomes a giant monopoly where all meat is processed in a few giant packing plants then it becomes easier fo</tokentext>
<sentencetext>SurvivalBlog.com ©2006 James Wesley, RawlesNote: Permission to reprint, repost or forward the following article in full is granted, but only if it is not edited or excerpted.From the Editors of www.SurvivalBlog.com:The National Animal Identification System (NAIS)The USDA and the Agrobiz giants have been crafting a national animal identification scheme that threatens the traditional freedom of self sufficiency, the privacy of Americans, and the livelihood of organic farmers, and family farms.
The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is the creation of the Agrobiz giants Monsanto, Cargill Meat, National Pork Producers, and others to monopolize American food production using fear tactics to advance their agenda.
The NAIS scheme was not created by any act of congress.
Rather, it is merely a presumptuous bureaucratic dictate.The NAIS plan requires two types of mandatory registration for everyone who owns even just one "livestock" animal.
Every person who owns even just one horse, donkey, chicken, pigeon, goat, llama, sheep, pig, cow, alpaca, duck, farmed fish, etc.
must register their name, home address, telephone number and Global Positioning System (GPS) coordinates of their home in a Federal database.
Secondly, in order for any animal to leave its birth farm, the owner will be required to obtain a Federal ID number for it which will be kept in a national data base and have the animal biochipped.
Animals will have to be registered if they leave the farm for any reason; to go on a trail ride, to go to a show or fair, to be bought or sold, to be bred by a stud on another farm, or to be taken to the local butcher, or anywhere else.
The most likely type of ID will be a bio-microchip containing a low power radio transmitter so that the chips can be read from a distance.
NAIS would allow "industry" to decide if retinal scans and DNA samples would also be required.
Of course large scale Agrobiz has exempted itself from individual identification.
(Agrobiz producers will be allowed to use one ID number for groups of hundreds or even thousands of animals that are raised and processed together.
)Americans will be required to report every time an animal enters or leaves their property, every time an animal loses a tag, every time a tag is replaced, the slaughter or death of an animal, or if an animal is missing.
Such events must be reported in 24 hours or owners would suffer an as yet unspecified penalty.
Small family farms and organic farmers will be driven out of business by the costs of premises registration fees, individual animal ID fees, event reporting fees, electronic tags or chips, electronic readers, home computers, Internet access, phone service, and reporting software.
According to the USDA's plan all of these costs will be born by the animal owners.NAIS might enhance Agrobiz's export markets and allow tracing of animal movements to track disease outbreaks which is its stated goal.
But it will not make the American consumer safer.
The most common type of meat contamination in the United States is bacterial, such as E coli.
and Listeria.
It is not discovered until masses of people become ill. Since Agrobiz processes meat in huge packing plants with thousands of animals being slaughtered a day, NAIS is useless to determine if the contamination was from one animal, multiple animals, or unsanitary conditions at the packing plant itself.
Contaminated meat from giant Agrobiz processor is sent to all 50 states endangering millions of consumers simultaneously.
On the other hand family farms, organic farmers, and private citizens their animals in natural and healthy conditions because they are raising their animals for themselves and their neighbors' tables.
When they are driven out of the market, America's food supply will become less safe not more so.
The consolidation of America's food supply by Agrobiz makes it more vulnerable to terrorists.
As Americas meat industry becomes a giant monopoly where all meat is processed in a few giant packing plants then it becomes easier fo</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536983</id>
	<title>This is what is wrong with America</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246368600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Regulations like this are made and voted for by people who have no idea how anything in the real world actually works. This is a big reason why despite spending more on health care and education than any other country we are still trailing behind when it comes to both.</p><p>his is a big reason why despite spending more on health care and education than any other country we are still trailing behind when it comes to both. Everything including the way the hospital is designed, the grass that's being used on your school lawn, or the way to regulate cattle usually ends up being decided by people in higher positions who have no idea what they're talking about. This not only costs you the tax payer money, you will also have poorer state services because of this.</p><p>This reminds me of how California is wanting to put a serial number on every bullet. It sounds like a good idea when you throw logistics and reality out the window which unfortunately people tend to do far too much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Regulations like this are made and voted for by people who have no idea how anything in the real world actually works .
This is a big reason why despite spending more on health care and education than any other country we are still trailing behind when it comes to both.his is a big reason why despite spending more on health care and education than any other country we are still trailing behind when it comes to both .
Everything including the way the hospital is designed , the grass that 's being used on your school lawn , or the way to regulate cattle usually ends up being decided by people in higher positions who have no idea what they 're talking about .
This not only costs you the tax payer money , you will also have poorer state services because of this.This reminds me of how California is wanting to put a serial number on every bullet .
It sounds like a good idea when you throw logistics and reality out the window which unfortunately people tend to do far too much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Regulations like this are made and voted for by people who have no idea how anything in the real world actually works.
This is a big reason why despite spending more on health care and education than any other country we are still trailing behind when it comes to both.his is a big reason why despite spending more on health care and education than any other country we are still trailing behind when it comes to both.
Everything including the way the hospital is designed, the grass that's being used on your school lawn, or the way to regulate cattle usually ends up being decided by people in higher positions who have no idea what they're talking about.
This not only costs you the tax payer money, you will also have poorer state services because of this.This reminds me of how California is wanting to put a serial number on every bullet.
It sounds like a good idea when you throw logistics and reality out the window which unfortunately people tend to do far too much.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536133</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246363500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You are an idiot who can't even RTFS. This regulation would hurt the small sustainable ranchers who are teetering on the edge of being able to compete, while benefiting the large-scale industry that you abhor.</p></div><p>
&nbsp; </p><p>Actually, there are very few small sustainable ranchers that are teetering on the edge of being able to compete.  Most of them have either sold out to the big cattle companies long ago (because they essentially were forced out of business) or they have moved into niche markets.</p><p>
&nbsp; </p><p>The "small rancher" is a myth, just like the "family farm".  The corporate cattle ranches and corporate farms have a ton of clout and have essentially manipulated the laws to benefit their assembly-line methods of producing food, all the while playing on the public perception of small ranches and farms.</p><p>
&nbsp; </p><p>Of course, I'm just as much of a hypocrite, because I'm more than willing to take the cost savings on assembly-line food (even though sustainable food definitely does taste a lot better and also is healthier).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are an idiot who ca n't even RTFS .
This regulation would hurt the small sustainable ranchers who are teetering on the edge of being able to compete , while benefiting the large-scale industry that you abhor .
  Actually , there are very few small sustainable ranchers that are teetering on the edge of being able to compete .
Most of them have either sold out to the big cattle companies long ago ( because they essentially were forced out of business ) or they have moved into niche markets .
  The " small rancher " is a myth , just like the " family farm " .
The corporate cattle ranches and corporate farms have a ton of clout and have essentially manipulated the laws to benefit their assembly-line methods of producing food , all the while playing on the public perception of small ranches and farms .
  Of course , I 'm just as much of a hypocrite , because I 'm more than willing to take the cost savings on assembly-line food ( even though sustainable food definitely does taste a lot better and also is healthier ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are an idiot who can't even RTFS.
This regulation would hurt the small sustainable ranchers who are teetering on the edge of being able to compete, while benefiting the large-scale industry that you abhor.
  Actually, there are very few small sustainable ranchers that are teetering on the edge of being able to compete.
Most of them have either sold out to the big cattle companies long ago (because they essentially were forced out of business) or they have moved into niche markets.
  The "small rancher" is a myth, just like the "family farm".
The corporate cattle ranches and corporate farms have a ton of clout and have essentially manipulated the laws to benefit their assembly-line methods of producing food, all the while playing on the public perception of small ranches and farms.
  Of course, I'm just as much of a hypocrite, because I'm more than willing to take the cost savings on assembly-line food (even though sustainable food definitely does taste a lot better and also is healthier).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537149</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>'Aikanaka</author>
	<datestamp>1246370220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
Iridium data service is available globally.  You can connect at speeds of up to 9.6Kbps (more if you can afford to multiplex) which is speedy enough to upload XML files to some website/database.  Pricing for Iridium phones and data plans have come down since the 90s and are relatively affordable (about $1,400.00 for the phone and basic airtime plan of $40.00 per month with $1.40 per additional minute).  Iridium SBD modems are $500.00 apiece and can transmit up to 2Kb in around 10 seconds (normal Iridium data connections take about 25 seconds to establish) and these are perfect for embedded systems.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Iridium data service is available globally .
You can connect at speeds of up to 9.6Kbps ( more if you can afford to multiplex ) which is speedy enough to upload XML files to some website/database .
Pricing for Iridium phones and data plans have come down since the 90s and are relatively affordable ( about $ 1,400.00 for the phone and basic airtime plan of $ 40.00 per month with $ 1.40 per additional minute ) .
Iridium SBD modems are $ 500.00 apiece and can transmit up to 2Kb in around 10 seconds ( normal Iridium data connections take about 25 seconds to establish ) and these are perfect for embedded systems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Iridium data service is available globally.
You can connect at speeds of up to 9.6Kbps (more if you can afford to multiplex) which is speedy enough to upload XML files to some website/database.
Pricing for Iridium phones and data plans have come down since the 90s and are relatively affordable (about $1,400.00 for the phone and basic airtime plan of $40.00 per month with $1.40 per additional minute).
Iridium SBD modems are $500.00 apiece and can transmit up to 2Kb in around 10 seconds (normal Iridium data connections take about 25 seconds to establish) and these are perfect for embedded systems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540509</id>
	<title>Re:Cattle Liberties</title>
	<author>CyberDragon777</author>
	<datestamp>1246451520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>T-bone steak is bovine!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>T-bone steak is bovine !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>T-bone steak is bovine!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535591</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>Absolut187</author>
	<datestamp>1246360680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, would you rather risk a one-in-a-million shot of losing one million dollars, or be forced to spend $100,000 to (maybe) avoid it?</p><p>What if <b>either</b> amount would put you out of business?</p><p>Furthermore, its not just the chip.  The chip, the cost to implant the chip, the time to read the chip however often is required, the time and cost to store/upload the data, the internet connection, the computer, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , would you rather risk a one-in-a-million shot of losing one million dollars , or be forced to spend $ 100,000 to ( maybe ) avoid it ? What if either amount would put you out of business ? Furthermore , its not just the chip .
The chip , the cost to implant the chip , the time to read the chip however often is required , the time and cost to store/upload the data , the internet connection , the computer , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, would you rather risk a one-in-a-million shot of losing one million dollars, or be forced to spend $100,000 to (maybe) avoid it?What if either amount would put you out of business?Furthermore, its not just the chip.
The chip, the cost to implant the chip, the time to read the chip however often is required, the time and cost to store/upload the data, the internet connection, the computer, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28539835</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>amilo100</author>
	<datestamp>1246442280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you ever tried to access the internet over a farm line you would know that it is a fuckup. I had extreme difficulty and we lived just 20 kilometers from town.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you ever tried to access the internet over a farm line you would know that it is a fuckup .
I had extreme difficulty and we lived just 20 kilometers from town .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you ever tried to access the internet over a farm line you would know that it is a fuckup.
I had extreme difficulty and we lived just 20 kilometers from town.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540245</id>
	<title>Re:The Farmers are Right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246447860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is sort of like the situation with banning incandescent light bulbs rather than setting an efficiency requirement. Instead of making requirements for how things are done on the ranch, make requirements for the quality of the product they deliver. This way smaller ranches can use whatever techniques achieve that, which may differ from those necessary on larger ones.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is sort of like the situation with banning incandescent light bulbs rather than setting an efficiency requirement .
Instead of making requirements for how things are done on the ranch , make requirements for the quality of the product they deliver .
This way smaller ranches can use whatever techniques achieve that , which may differ from those necessary on larger ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is sort of like the situation with banning incandescent light bulbs rather than setting an efficiency requirement.
Instead of making requirements for how things are done on the ranch, make requirements for the quality of the product they deliver.
This way smaller ranches can use whatever techniques achieve that, which may differ from those necessary on larger ones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535639</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28539777</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>civilizedINTENSITY</author>
	<datestamp>1246441380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Since everyone is talking about sustainability, I'd like to point out that it takes much more water to grow the feed to make a steak than if we ate other things.  In terms of the nutritional value/acre, and the impact of the raw materials needed external to that acre, we are way over producing meat.  We also eat way too much meat.  I'm not suggesting that we just suddenly dump the industry, but it doesn't make any strategic sense.  Its really stupid for such a rich, educated nation to act like this.  In terms of your slippery slope first domino analogy, there are useful things those people could be doing instead of raising way too much meat.  If the change occurred too fast it would be problematic, but no one expects Americans to eat healthier immediately.  Lets at least admit its a problem right now, today, and the sort of problem that will become more noticeable in the future as fresh water continues to become less abundant.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Since everyone is talking about sustainability , I 'd like to point out that it takes much more water to grow the feed to make a steak than if we ate other things .
In terms of the nutritional value/acre , and the impact of the raw materials needed external to that acre , we are way over producing meat .
We also eat way too much meat .
I 'm not suggesting that we just suddenly dump the industry , but it does n't make any strategic sense .
Its really stupid for such a rich , educated nation to act like this .
In terms of your slippery slope first domino analogy , there are useful things those people could be doing instead of raising way too much meat .
If the change occurred too fast it would be problematic , but no one expects Americans to eat healthier immediately .
Lets at least admit its a problem right now , today , and the sort of problem that will become more noticeable in the future as fresh water continues to become less abundant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since everyone is talking about sustainability, I'd like to point out that it takes much more water to grow the feed to make a steak than if we ate other things.
In terms of the nutritional value/acre, and the impact of the raw materials needed external to that acre, we are way over producing meat.
We also eat way too much meat.
I'm not suggesting that we just suddenly dump the industry, but it doesn't make any strategic sense.
Its really stupid for such a rich, educated nation to act like this.
In terms of your slippery slope first domino analogy, there are useful things those people could be doing instead of raising way too much meat.
If the change occurred too fast it would be problematic, but no one expects Americans to eat healthier immediately.
Lets at least admit its a problem right now, today, and the sort of problem that will become more noticeable in the future as fresh water continues to become less abundant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535695</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535535</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246360380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>FUCK YOU. I abhor your fucking vegetarians industry. Dumb fucks. Plants are living things too. Why stop there then?

Nothing, and I mean nothing, not even religious zealots, piss me off more than vegetarians.

EAT MOAR CHIKUN bitches.

And before you mod this TROLL, read what I'm saying. Its true.</htmltext>
<tokenext>FUCK YOU .
I abhor your fucking vegetarians industry .
Dumb fucks .
Plants are living things too .
Why stop there then ?
Nothing , and I mean nothing , not even religious zealots , piss me off more than vegetarians .
EAT MOAR CHIKUN bitches .
And before you mod this TROLL , read what I 'm saying .
Its true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FUCK YOU.
I abhor your fucking vegetarians industry.
Dumb fucks.
Plants are living things too.
Why stop there then?
Nothing, and I mean nothing, not even religious zealots, piss me off more than vegetarians.
EAT MOAR CHIKUN bitches.
And before you mod this TROLL, read what I'm saying.
Its true.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537375</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246371960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And yet here you are on the Internets.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And yet here you are on the Internets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And yet here you are on the Internets.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535747</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535725</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous paranoia</title>
	<author>scorp1us</author>
	<datestamp>1246361340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The issues of tracking cattle are going to be similar to tracking humans. They will learn from this project, so that the one that gets deployed on us will be much less error prone. In fact, people are probably easier to model (very habitual as everyone has a schedule for themselves) whereas a herd has a less rigid schedule.</p><p>I wouldn't even call this a slippery slope. This is a stepping stone. It would only be a slippery slope if the lessons learned did not have any applicability to humans. But they do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The issues of tracking cattle are going to be similar to tracking humans .
They will learn from this project , so that the one that gets deployed on us will be much less error prone .
In fact , people are probably easier to model ( very habitual as everyone has a schedule for themselves ) whereas a herd has a less rigid schedule.I would n't even call this a slippery slope .
This is a stepping stone .
It would only be a slippery slope if the lessons learned did not have any applicability to humans .
But they do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The issues of tracking cattle are going to be similar to tracking humans.
They will learn from this project, so that the one that gets deployed on us will be much less error prone.
In fact, people are probably easier to model (very habitual as everyone has a schedule for themselves) whereas a herd has a less rigid schedule.I wouldn't even call this a slippery slope.
This is a stepping stone.
It would only be a slippery slope if the lessons learned did not have any applicability to humans.
But they do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535817</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246361940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Meanwhile, the small ranches, and single family farmhouses that have cattle for tax purposes will be forced to pony up the money for this technology at their farm. What, you only have a few head of cattle? Too bad... Unless you plan on never selling your cattle, EVER, you're going to have to join the club and I bet you hand over fist that expense is coming out of your pocket. The ROI on owning a few head (10) cattle is extremely small from an economic standpoint. Naturally the ROI increases as your numbers increase since you then have infrastructure for it.</p><p>And as far as disease is concerned? We've had, what, 1 cow test positive recently, READ 1, for BSE (Mad-Cow Disease to you non-Ag. people) in the U.S, out of ~90Million cattle. Your gonna tell me that implementing THIS technology is going to stop greedy individuals who like to cut corners and use cheap contaminated/BAD FEED? I don't think so.</p><p>There is a WHOLE other side to why the big ranches want this technology implemented, and it has nothing to do with tracking disease.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Meanwhile , the small ranches , and single family farmhouses that have cattle for tax purposes will be forced to pony up the money for this technology at their farm .
What , you only have a few head of cattle ?
Too bad... Unless you plan on never selling your cattle , EVER , you 're going to have to join the club and I bet you hand over fist that expense is coming out of your pocket .
The ROI on owning a few head ( 10 ) cattle is extremely small from an economic standpoint .
Naturally the ROI increases as your numbers increase since you then have infrastructure for it.And as far as disease is concerned ?
We 've had , what , 1 cow test positive recently , READ 1 , for BSE ( Mad-Cow Disease to you non-Ag .
people ) in the U.S , out of ~ 90Million cattle .
Your gon na tell me that implementing THIS technology is going to stop greedy individuals who like to cut corners and use cheap contaminated/BAD FEED ?
I do n't think so.There is a WHOLE other side to why the big ranches want this technology implemented , and it has nothing to do with tracking disease .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meanwhile, the small ranches, and single family farmhouses that have cattle for tax purposes will be forced to pony up the money for this technology at their farm.
What, you only have a few head of cattle?
Too bad... Unless you plan on never selling your cattle, EVER, you're going to have to join the club and I bet you hand over fist that expense is coming out of your pocket.
The ROI on owning a few head (10) cattle is extremely small from an economic standpoint.
Naturally the ROI increases as your numbers increase since you then have infrastructure for it.And as far as disease is concerned?
We've had, what, 1 cow test positive recently, READ 1, for BSE (Mad-Cow Disease to you non-Ag.
people) in the U.S, out of ~90Million cattle.
Your gonna tell me that implementing THIS technology is going to stop greedy individuals who like to cut corners and use cheap contaminated/BAD FEED?
I don't think so.There is a WHOLE other side to why the big ranches want this technology implemented, and it has nothing to do with tracking disease.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535803</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous paranoia</title>
	<author>ArsonSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1246361820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>""19273g"? What the hell kind of tattoo is that? "</p><p>A noob tattoo</p><p>-00345a</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" " 19273g " ?
What the hell kind of tattoo is that ?
" A noob tattoo-00345a</tokentext>
<sentencetext>""19273g"?
What the hell kind of tattoo is that?
"A noob tattoo-00345a</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28551133</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246448580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So farmers don't have telephones?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So farmers do n't have telephones ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So farmers don't have telephones?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</id>
	<title>Let it collapse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246359660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The blurb says their industry is teetering and this one new regulation would destroy them.  I say let it go down.  Regulate them into the dust.</p><p>(Full disclosure, I abhor the meat industry.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The blurb says their industry is teetering and this one new regulation would destroy them .
I say let it go down .
Regulate them into the dust .
( Full disclosure , I abhor the meat industry .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The blurb says their industry is teetering and this one new regulation would destroy them.
I say let it go down.
Regulate them into the dust.
(Full disclosure, I abhor the meat industry.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536065</id>
	<title>Cattle Liberties</title>
	<author>MrKaos</author>
	<datestamp>1246363080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the bovine has done nothing wrong, surely it has nothing to fear from being tracked. After what's the worst that can happen to it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the bovine has done nothing wrong , surely it has nothing to fear from being tracked .
After what 's the worst that can happen to it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the bovine has done nothing wrong, surely it has nothing to fear from being tracked.
After what's the worst that can happen to it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535457</id>
	<title>Personally Speaking</title>
	<author>decipher\_saint</author>
	<datestamp>1246360020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd pay more for them to change the way they do business rather than DIE from consuming their PRODUCT.</p><p>But you know me, I'm funny that way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd pay more for them to change the way they do business rather than DIE from consuming their PRODUCT.But you know me , I 'm funny that way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd pay more for them to change the way they do business rather than DIE from consuming their PRODUCT.But you know me, I'm funny that way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535443</id>
	<title>Hmmm.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246360020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The cost of the rfids would be practically nothing. They have to give them their shots anyway (mmmmm, tasty growth hormone), so that's just one more.</p><p>The movement issue is more real, because the range on the readers is tiny, but we've all seen lab experiments where hackers read an rfid enabled card from 200 feet away with a cantenna, so I'm not inclined to believe this to be an unsolvable problem.</p><p>And the internet thing is a joke. The amount of actual data collected would be pretty small (in the grand scheme). Uploading it every week or so wouldn't be a huge burden.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The cost of the rfids would be practically nothing .
They have to give them their shots anyway ( mmmmm , tasty growth hormone ) , so that 's just one more.The movement issue is more real , because the range on the readers is tiny , but we 've all seen lab experiments where hackers read an rfid enabled card from 200 feet away with a cantenna , so I 'm not inclined to believe this to be an unsolvable problem.And the internet thing is a joke .
The amount of actual data collected would be pretty small ( in the grand scheme ) .
Uploading it every week or so would n't be a huge burden .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The cost of the rfids would be practically nothing.
They have to give them their shots anyway (mmmmm, tasty growth hormone), so that's just one more.The movement issue is more real, because the range on the readers is tiny, but we've all seen lab experiments where hackers read an rfid enabled card from 200 feet away with a cantenna, so I'm not inclined to believe this to be an unsolvable problem.And the internet thing is a joke.
The amount of actual data collected would be pretty small (in the grand scheme).
Uploading it every week or so wouldn't be a huge burden.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535351</id>
	<title>A "teetering industry"?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246359480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>LOL</htmltext>
<tokenext>LOL</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LOL</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28541199</id>
	<title>Re:Take a look at Australia!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246457460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you are missing part of the point.  LARGE cattle conglomerates are in favor of the regulations, which help drive out smaller competitors.  You may also be forgetting that we allow imports from South America and Mexico that do not have such restrictions.  This will drive out small business in the US, yet still allow riskier, imported beef from South America to enter the US.</p><p>In my 40 years, not once have I been afraid to eat beef grown in the US.  This regulation is unnecessary, especially considering the current state of the economy.</p><p>Regulation for the sake of regulation is just plain stupid.  What I think we are actually seeing the the "shovel ready" projects being promoted by our government.  Employ more control freak regulators to "shovel" more regulation down our throats to justify the existence of a bunch of useless bureaucrats.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you are missing part of the point .
LARGE cattle conglomerates are in favor of the regulations , which help drive out smaller competitors .
You may also be forgetting that we allow imports from South America and Mexico that do not have such restrictions .
This will drive out small business in the US , yet still allow riskier , imported beef from South America to enter the US.In my 40 years , not once have I been afraid to eat beef grown in the US .
This regulation is unnecessary , especially considering the current state of the economy.Regulation for the sake of regulation is just plain stupid .
What I think we are actually seeing the the " shovel ready " projects being promoted by our government .
Employ more control freak regulators to " shovel " more regulation down our throats to justify the existence of a bunch of useless bureaucrats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you are missing part of the point.
LARGE cattle conglomerates are in favor of the regulations, which help drive out smaller competitors.
You may also be forgetting that we allow imports from South America and Mexico that do not have such restrictions.
This will drive out small business in the US, yet still allow riskier, imported beef from South America to enter the US.In my 40 years, not once have I been afraid to eat beef grown in the US.
This regulation is unnecessary, especially considering the current state of the economy.Regulation for the sake of regulation is just plain stupid.
What I think we are actually seeing the the "shovel ready" projects being promoted by our government.
Employ more control freak regulators to "shovel" more regulation down our throats to justify the existence of a bunch of useless bureaucrats.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537463</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>Lehk228</author>
	<datestamp>1246372440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>i'm pretty sure if it's 0F, 50MPH winds, and 10" snow, your cows are already dead and you don't need to drive into town.</htmltext>
<tokenext>i 'm pretty sure if it 's 0F , 50MPH winds , and 10 " snow , your cows are already dead and you do n't need to drive into town .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i'm pretty sure if it's 0F, 50MPH winds, and 10" snow, your cows are already dead and you don't need to drive into town.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536075</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>ObsessiveMathsFreak</author>
	<datestamp>1246363140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I say let it go down. Regulate them into the dust.<br>(Full disclosure, I abhor the meat industry.)</p></div></blockquote><p>While the meat industry, and food industry in general, is guilty of a swathe of scandals, it's important to remember that without that industry, few of us would eat as well as we do.</p><p>If we want to have cheap, (reasonably) nutritious food, then some policies of the food industry are going to have to be tolerated to a certain degree. This doesn't mean we should accept all of the repulsive practices that the industry has come up with. But it does mean that our meat is not always going to come to our table via paths we'd like it to take.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I say let it go down .
Regulate them into the dust .
( Full disclosure , I abhor the meat industry .
) While the meat industry , and food industry in general , is guilty of a swathe of scandals , it 's important to remember that without that industry , few of us would eat as well as we do.If we want to have cheap , ( reasonably ) nutritious food , then some policies of the food industry are going to have to be tolerated to a certain degree .
This does n't mean we should accept all of the repulsive practices that the industry has come up with .
But it does mean that our meat is not always going to come to our table via paths we 'd like it to take .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I say let it go down.
Regulate them into the dust.
(Full disclosure, I abhor the meat industry.
)While the meat industry, and food industry in general, is guilty of a swathe of scandals, it's important to remember that without that industry, few of us would eat as well as we do.If we want to have cheap, (reasonably) nutritious food, then some policies of the food industry are going to have to be tolerated to a certain degree.
This doesn't mean we should accept all of the repulsive practices that the industry has come up with.
But it does mean that our meat is not always going to come to our table via paths we'd like it to take.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536855</id>
	<title>Smaller != Sustainable</title>
	<author>crmarvin42</author>
	<datestamp>1246367640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Of course, I'm just as much of a hypocrite, because I'm more than willing to take the cost savings on assembly-line food (even though sustainable food definitely does taste a lot better and also is healthier).</p></div><p>You seem to be operating under the same false assumption as a lot of people, that somehow Smaller = Sustainable.  <br> <br>If you look at larger farms, the reason that they are more profitable is because they are using less resources per unit of meat produced.  Less feed per # of meat or milk means less fossil fuels used planting, fertilizing, harvesting, transporting, and mixing the feed.  In the case of dairy cattle, it means less cows needed to produce the same volume of milk.  Large farms are more profitable becuase they are more sustainable.  Feed, which makes up &gt;60\% of the total cost of production, is expensive and the less of it you use the more money you make (or in many cases the less money you lose depending on the price being paid at the slaughter house).<br> <br>Large farms are also held to a higher standard of environmental stewardship.  All federal, state, and county regulations have lower cut off limits below which they require less or no documentation for.  "Small independant ranchers" would fall into this category.  They can run their cows down to a field that has a stream or river running through it and let them defecate and urinate in the water to their hearts content while taking a cooling bath in August (I worked on a dairy farm back in CT where the cows spent the hottest days if the year doing exactly that, and even on cooler days they had to walk across the creek to get to most of the pasture).  Large farms are require to keep animals a certain distance away from open water sources and ensure that none of the stored manure ends up contaminating local waters because when the water is tested, they will be the first suspect if it has unacceptably high fecal coliform counts.<br> <br>My guess is what you are confusing for the taste of sustainability, is actually the taste of "Freshness."  The "Factory Farm" is much more an example of misdirection than the "Family Farm."  Most large farms are owned by a single family, that run the farm with the help of empolyees.  They grew in order to get the economies of scale.  The idea of "Factory Farms" was created out of the imagination of vegitarian/vegan activism groups such as HSUS, PETA, ALF, etc. becuase people have this built in prejudice against the combination of "Factories" and "Animals" because factories are thought of as being hard, insensitive, and dangerous.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , I 'm just as much of a hypocrite , because I 'm more than willing to take the cost savings on assembly-line food ( even though sustainable food definitely does taste a lot better and also is healthier ) .You seem to be operating under the same false assumption as a lot of people , that somehow Smaller = Sustainable .
If you look at larger farms , the reason that they are more profitable is because they are using less resources per unit of meat produced .
Less feed per # of meat or milk means less fossil fuels used planting , fertilizing , harvesting , transporting , and mixing the feed .
In the case of dairy cattle , it means less cows needed to produce the same volume of milk .
Large farms are more profitable becuase they are more sustainable .
Feed , which makes up &gt; 60 \ % of the total cost of production , is expensive and the less of it you use the more money you make ( or in many cases the less money you lose depending on the price being paid at the slaughter house ) .
Large farms are also held to a higher standard of environmental stewardship .
All federal , state , and county regulations have lower cut off limits below which they require less or no documentation for .
" Small independant ranchers " would fall into this category .
They can run their cows down to a field that has a stream or river running through it and let them defecate and urinate in the water to their hearts content while taking a cooling bath in August ( I worked on a dairy farm back in CT where the cows spent the hottest days if the year doing exactly that , and even on cooler days they had to walk across the creek to get to most of the pasture ) .
Large farms are require to keep animals a certain distance away from open water sources and ensure that none of the stored manure ends up contaminating local waters because when the water is tested , they will be the first suspect if it has unacceptably high fecal coliform counts .
My guess is what you are confusing for the taste of sustainability , is actually the taste of " Freshness .
" The " Factory Farm " is much more an example of misdirection than the " Family Farm .
" Most large farms are owned by a single family , that run the farm with the help of empolyees .
They grew in order to get the economies of scale .
The idea of " Factory Farms " was created out of the imagination of vegitarian/vegan activism groups such as HSUS , PETA , ALF , etc .
becuase people have this built in prejudice against the combination of " Factories " and " Animals " because factories are thought of as being hard , insensitive , and dangerous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, I'm just as much of a hypocrite, because I'm more than willing to take the cost savings on assembly-line food (even though sustainable food definitely does taste a lot better and also is healthier).You seem to be operating under the same false assumption as a lot of people, that somehow Smaller = Sustainable.
If you look at larger farms, the reason that they are more profitable is because they are using less resources per unit of meat produced.
Less feed per # of meat or milk means less fossil fuels used planting, fertilizing, harvesting, transporting, and mixing the feed.
In the case of dairy cattle, it means less cows needed to produce the same volume of milk.
Large farms are more profitable becuase they are more sustainable.
Feed, which makes up &gt;60\% of the total cost of production, is expensive and the less of it you use the more money you make (or in many cases the less money you lose depending on the price being paid at the slaughter house).
Large farms are also held to a higher standard of environmental stewardship.
All federal, state, and county regulations have lower cut off limits below which they require less or no documentation for.
"Small independant ranchers" would fall into this category.
They can run their cows down to a field that has a stream or river running through it and let them defecate and urinate in the water to their hearts content while taking a cooling bath in August (I worked on a dairy farm back in CT where the cows spent the hottest days if the year doing exactly that, and even on cooler days they had to walk across the creek to get to most of the pasture).
Large farms are require to keep animals a certain distance away from open water sources and ensure that none of the stored manure ends up contaminating local waters because when the water is tested, they will be the first suspect if it has unacceptably high fecal coliform counts.
My guess is what you are confusing for the taste of sustainability, is actually the taste of "Freshness.
"  The "Factory Farm" is much more an example of misdirection than the "Family Farm.
"  Most large farms are owned by a single family, that run the farm with the help of empolyees.
They grew in order to get the economies of scale.
The idea of "Factory Farms" was created out of the imagination of vegitarian/vegan activism groups such as HSUS, PETA, ALF, etc.
becuase people have this built in prejudice against the combination of "Factories" and "Animals" because factories are thought of as being hard, insensitive, and dangerous.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535927</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246362480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You must be one of those vegan hippy fags. Please go and choke on a soy bean.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You must be one of those vegan hippy fags .
Please go and choke on a soy bean .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You must be one of those vegan hippy fags.
Please go and choke on a soy bean.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28544771</id>
	<title>Re:Smaller != Sustainable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246471140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>But corporations are evil.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But corporations are evil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But corporations are evil.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535691</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246361220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>O.K - having just returned from my vacation in Oregon "cow country" (prospecting for sunstones), I can clue you in on what's wrong with your world view.</p><p>Having looked at the program - the information they are trying to gain is - where has the cow been, and what other livestock has it associated with. This means that you have to read the chip and report, every time an animal is moved. It may happen more frequently, but moves would happen at least from high to low pastures and back - because of the weather.</p><p>So you have lots of reads, sometimes on small numbers of cattle. For the collected information to be useful it's got to be timely. Most people don't appreciate the scale of even eastern Oregon (much less New Mexico - I've lived in both). This leads up to the next problem -</p><p>THERE IS NO CELLULAR ACCESS - there isn't cell access for 100 miles in any direction from where I was. Heck, even the 162.XX weather radio was inaudable (I'm a ham, too) So much for your "low cost cellular scanner". Sat Radio would work - know what an irridium set with data costs? Not cheap, and every hand moving cattle has to have one.</p><p>Basically, it's clear that this rule was proposed by people who don't have a clear picture of the area they are asking this to be applied to - much less of the processes of the people who would actually do it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>O.K - having just returned from my vacation in Oregon " cow country " ( prospecting for sunstones ) , I can clue you in on what 's wrong with your world view.Having looked at the program - the information they are trying to gain is - where has the cow been , and what other livestock has it associated with .
This means that you have to read the chip and report , every time an animal is moved .
It may happen more frequently , but moves would happen at least from high to low pastures and back - because of the weather.So you have lots of reads , sometimes on small numbers of cattle .
For the collected information to be useful it 's got to be timely .
Most people do n't appreciate the scale of even eastern Oregon ( much less New Mexico - I 've lived in both ) .
This leads up to the next problem -THERE IS NO CELLULAR ACCESS - there is n't cell access for 100 miles in any direction from where I was .
Heck , even the 162.XX weather radio was inaudable ( I 'm a ham , too ) So much for your " low cost cellular scanner " .
Sat Radio would work - know what an irridium set with data costs ?
Not cheap , and every hand moving cattle has to have one.Basically , it 's clear that this rule was proposed by people who do n't have a clear picture of the area they are asking this to be applied to - much less of the processes of the people who would actually do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>O.K - having just returned from my vacation in Oregon "cow country" (prospecting for sunstones), I can clue you in on what's wrong with your world view.Having looked at the program - the information they are trying to gain is - where has the cow been, and what other livestock has it associated with.
This means that you have to read the chip and report, every time an animal is moved.
It may happen more frequently, but moves would happen at least from high to low pastures and back - because of the weather.So you have lots of reads, sometimes on small numbers of cattle.
For the collected information to be useful it's got to be timely.
Most people don't appreciate the scale of even eastern Oregon (much less New Mexico - I've lived in both).
This leads up to the next problem -THERE IS NO CELLULAR ACCESS - there isn't cell access for 100 miles in any direction from where I was.
Heck, even the 162.XX weather radio was inaudable (I'm a ham, too) So much for your "low cost cellular scanner".
Sat Radio would work - know what an irridium set with data costs?
Not cheap, and every hand moving cattle has to have one.Basically, it's clear that this rule was proposed by people who don't have a clear picture of the area they are asking this to be applied to - much less of the processes of the people who would actually do it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535913</id>
	<title>Tough</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246362480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The irony is that should we have an outbreak of mad cow disease traced to beef these same ranchers will come begging to the government for aid. I don't understand how those who worship at the altar of Capitalism (or the Marketplace if you prefer) bemoan the disappearance of the smaller less efficient ranches. Office Depot and Staples killed off the independent office supply store, it was not the end of civilization. I'm not defending the virtue of large corporations but I don't automatically associate virtue with small size either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The irony is that should we have an outbreak of mad cow disease traced to beef these same ranchers will come begging to the government for aid .
I do n't understand how those who worship at the altar of Capitalism ( or the Marketplace if you prefer ) bemoan the disappearance of the smaller less efficient ranches .
Office Depot and Staples killed off the independent office supply store , it was not the end of civilization .
I 'm not defending the virtue of large corporations but I do n't automatically associate virtue with small size either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The irony is that should we have an outbreak of mad cow disease traced to beef these same ranchers will come begging to the government for aid.
I don't understand how those who worship at the altar of Capitalism (or the Marketplace if you prefer) bemoan the disappearance of the smaller less efficient ranches.
Office Depot and Staples killed off the independent office supply store, it was not the end of civilization.
I'm not defending the virtue of large corporations but I don't automatically associate virtue with small size either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537509</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1246372800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>argument that they made in the 1900's when the FDA was first trying to reduce the number of human body parts that made it into canned meat</p></div><p>Can you elaborate on what you're referring to here? I can't find anything useful in WP or by googling.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>argument that they made in the 1900 's when the FDA was first trying to reduce the number of human body parts that made it into canned meatCan you elaborate on what you 're referring to here ?
I ca n't find anything useful in WP or by googling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>argument that they made in the 1900's when the FDA was first trying to reduce the number of human body parts that made it into canned meatCan you elaborate on what you're referring to here?
I can't find anything useful in WP or by googling.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536385</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>zippyspringboard</author>
	<datestamp>1246364820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Keep in mind that this legislation is mostly being pushed forward by corporate interest.  The larger players involved are all FOR this.  This process helps further consolidate and centralize the process "for your safety"  you might as well say "think of the children."  The people who are fighting against this are individual ranchers or smaller farmers.   To phrase it another way, the current legislation being proposed is being written by corporate interests, and isn't really trying to help out small time farmers.  The small farmers are realizing that this is going to cramp their style....  I'm sure that if a system was proposed that would give an advantage to these small time farmers they would shut up.... (and someone else would start complaining)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Keep in mind that this legislation is mostly being pushed forward by corporate interest .
The larger players involved are all FOR this .
This process helps further consolidate and centralize the process " for your safety " you might as well say " think of the children .
" The people who are fighting against this are individual ranchers or smaller farmers .
To phrase it another way , the current legislation being proposed is being written by corporate interests , and is n't really trying to help out small time farmers .
The small farmers are realizing that this is going to cramp their style.... I 'm sure that if a system was proposed that would give an advantage to these small time farmers they would shut up.... ( and someone else would start complaining )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keep in mind that this legislation is mostly being pushed forward by corporate interest.
The larger players involved are all FOR this.
This process helps further consolidate and centralize the process "for your safety"  you might as well say "think of the children.
"  The people who are fighting against this are individual ranchers or smaller farmers.
To phrase it another way, the current legislation being proposed is being written by corporate interests, and isn't really trying to help out small time farmers.
The small farmers are realizing that this is going to cramp their style....  I'm sure that if a system was proposed that would give an advantage to these small time farmers they would shut up.... (and someone else would start complaining)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535937</id>
	<title>Re:Regulation</title>
	<author>ObsessiveMathsFreak</author>
	<datestamp>1246362540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It 1) Improved public perception of the safety of meat, increasing sales,</p></div></blockquote><p>Forget perception. It improved the safety, and quality, of meat full stop.</p><p>The reality is that the food industry as a whole <i>needs</i> these regulations. Left to their own devices, food producers will quite happily sell us sawdust and animal faeces to eat, feed dead cows to other cows, and buy, sell and slaughter sick, dying and dead animals that have been hauled across continents. All for a few pennies extra.</p><p>BSE would not have happened if their was regulation of the kind of practices the meat industry was using. The Gros Michel banana would still be on shelves if anyone had had the sense to put a stop to the homogenisation in the fruit industry. Swine Flu's resistance to medication is the direct result of feeding battery farmed pigs anti-biotics instead of reducing pig density.</p><p>The food industry cannot, will not and should not ever be allowed to regulate itself. While microchip tags seem frivolously sophisticated for a task that plastic ear tags have accomplished successfully for years, the <i>concept</i> of cattle IDs is an appropriate measure to control disease, improve meat safety and generally keep a tighter leash on an industry that should never be allowed to roam freerange.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 1 ) Improved public perception of the safety of meat , increasing sales,Forget perception .
It improved the safety , and quality , of meat full stop.The reality is that the food industry as a whole needs these regulations .
Left to their own devices , food producers will quite happily sell us sawdust and animal faeces to eat , feed dead cows to other cows , and buy , sell and slaughter sick , dying and dead animals that have been hauled across continents .
All for a few pennies extra.BSE would not have happened if their was regulation of the kind of practices the meat industry was using .
The Gros Michel banana would still be on shelves if anyone had had the sense to put a stop to the homogenisation in the fruit industry .
Swine Flu 's resistance to medication is the direct result of feeding battery farmed pigs anti-biotics instead of reducing pig density.The food industry can not , will not and should not ever be allowed to regulate itself .
While microchip tags seem frivolously sophisticated for a task that plastic ear tags have accomplished successfully for years , the concept of cattle IDs is an appropriate measure to control disease , improve meat safety and generally keep a tighter leash on an industry that should never be allowed to roam freerange .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It 1) Improved public perception of the safety of meat, increasing sales,Forget perception.
It improved the safety, and quality, of meat full stop.The reality is that the food industry as a whole needs these regulations.
Left to their own devices, food producers will quite happily sell us sawdust and animal faeces to eat, feed dead cows to other cows, and buy, sell and slaughter sick, dying and dead animals that have been hauled across continents.
All for a few pennies extra.BSE would not have happened if their was regulation of the kind of practices the meat industry was using.
The Gros Michel banana would still be on shelves if anyone had had the sense to put a stop to the homogenisation in the fruit industry.
Swine Flu's resistance to medication is the direct result of feeding battery farmed pigs anti-biotics instead of reducing pig density.The food industry cannot, will not and should not ever be allowed to regulate itself.
While microchip tags seem frivolously sophisticated for a task that plastic ear tags have accomplished successfully for years, the concept of cattle IDs is an appropriate measure to control disease, improve meat safety and generally keep a tighter leash on an industry that should never be allowed to roam freerange.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535399</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536541</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous paranoia</title>
	<author>BlueStrat</author>
	<datestamp>1246365600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Both agribusiness and small farmers are whining about something that will increase their costs.</i></p><p>Wait, I thought that small farmers were against it but big agribusiness was for it?</p><p>From TFS: <i>'Lobbyists from corporate mega-agribusiness designed this program to destroy traditional small sustainable agriculture,' says Genell Pridgen, an owner of Rainbow Meadow Farms.</i></p><p>???</p><p>Strat</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Both agribusiness and small farmers are whining about something that will increase their costs.Wait , I thought that small farmers were against it but big agribusiness was for it ? From TFS : 'Lobbyists from corporate mega-agribusiness designed this program to destroy traditional small sustainable agriculture, ' says Genell Pridgen , an owner of Rainbow Meadow Farms. ? ?
? Strat</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Both agribusiness and small farmers are whining about something that will increase their costs.Wait, I thought that small farmers were against it but big agribusiness was for it?From TFS: 'Lobbyists from corporate mega-agribusiness designed this program to destroy traditional small sustainable agriculture,' says Genell Pridgen, an owner of Rainbow Meadow Farms.??
?Strat</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537323</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous paranoia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246371660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're and idiot!  Passports now have RFID chips installed...you are being tracked.  Almost everyone has a cell phone...you are being tracked.  People have internet connections...you are being tracked.  You have credit?... you are being tracked.  You have a SSN and a job?  Paying taxes?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...you are being tracked.  Drive on a metro highway?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...speed sensors, traffic cameras, toll passport units.... you are being tracked.  Board an airplane?  You are being tracked.  Shop with a credit card or a grocery loyalty card?  you are being tracked.  Oh, and the "piece of plastic with a number on it"...that's your bluetooth headset...you are being tracked!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're and idiot !
Passports now have RFID chips installed...you are being tracked .
Almost everyone has a cell phone...you are being tracked .
People have internet connections...you are being tracked .
You have credit ? .. .
you are being tracked .
You have a SSN and a job ?
Paying taxes ?
...you are being tracked .
Drive on a metro highway ?
...speed sensors , traffic cameras , toll passport units.... you are being tracked .
Board an airplane ?
You are being tracked .
Shop with a credit card or a grocery loyalty card ?
you are being tracked .
Oh , and the " piece of plastic with a number on it " ...that 's your bluetooth headset...you are being tracked !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're and idiot!
Passports now have RFID chips installed...you are being tracked.
Almost everyone has a cell phone...you are being tracked.
People have internet connections...you are being tracked.
You have credit?...
you are being tracked.
You have a SSN and a job?
Paying taxes?
...you are being tracked.
Drive on a metro highway?
...speed sensors, traffic cameras, toll passport units.... you are being tracked.
Board an airplane?
You are being tracked.
Shop with a credit card or a grocery loyalty card?
you are being tracked.
Oh, and the "piece of plastic with a number on it"...that's your bluetooth headset...you are being tracked!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28541133</id>
	<title>Re:Take a look at Australia!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246457100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ooooh yes!  Let us please be like Australia!  Next up: The "Knives are too dangerous for you to own" program, followed by, "If you don't have anything to hide, we'll just go ahead and filter the internet for you" program.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ooooh yes !
Let us please be like Australia !
Next up : The " Knives are too dangerous for you to own " program , followed by , " If you do n't have anything to hide , we 'll just go ahead and filter the internet for you " program .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ooooh yes!
Let us please be like Australia!
Next up: The "Knives are too dangerous for you to own" program, followed by, "If you don't have anything to hide, we'll just go ahead and filter the internet for you" program.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536795</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1246367100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AC should make a few nice steaks.  I like meat.  No, I love meat.  AC, marinated in beer for a week, then rolled in egg &amp; milk, some cornmeal breading, then deepfried.  Mmmmm - mmmmm!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AC should make a few nice steaks .
I like meat .
No , I love meat .
AC , marinated in beer for a week , then rolled in egg &amp; milk , some cornmeal breading , then deepfried .
Mmmmm - mmmmm !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AC should make a few nice steaks.
I like meat.
No, I love meat.
AC, marinated in beer for a week, then rolled in egg &amp; milk, some cornmeal breading, then deepfried.
Mmmmm - mmmmm!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540957</id>
	<title>Re:The Farmers are Right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246455840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's hilarious that the "Internet Liberty" Slashdot crowd isn't more rabidly "real life liberty" when it comes to impractical programs like this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's hilarious that the " Internet Liberty " Slashdot crowd is n't more rabidly " real life liberty " when it comes to impractical programs like this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's hilarious that the "Internet Liberty" Slashdot crowd isn't more rabidly "real life liberty" when it comes to impractical programs like this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535639</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536313</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246364400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about Satellite internet? I'm pretty sure it would work well in this situation, it's not like you need to worry about latency to upload data.</p><p>Plus, on top of that, it can be used for other things as well, such as keeping in contact in areas that have no other form of contact (phone or otherwise)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about Satellite internet ?
I 'm pretty sure it would work well in this situation , it 's not like you need to worry about latency to upload data.Plus , on top of that , it can be used for other things as well , such as keeping in contact in areas that have no other form of contact ( phone or otherwise )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about Satellite internet?
I'm pretty sure it would work well in this situation, it's not like you need to worry about latency to upload data.Plus, on top of that, it can be used for other things as well, such as keeping in contact in areas that have no other form of contact (phone or otherwise)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535747</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540533</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246451820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>What a load of Bullshit. Such electronic tagging has been mandated in many countries for years. My brother and father are both small scale cattle farmers in Australia, electronic tagging if anything has reduced the cost and simplified tracking and stock yard sales, it didn't hurt the industry at all here, if anything it helped it as it removed uncertainty of stock history.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What a load of Bullshit .
Such electronic tagging has been mandated in many countries for years .
My brother and father are both small scale cattle farmers in Australia , electronic tagging if anything has reduced the cost and simplified tracking and stock yard sales , it did n't hurt the industry at all here , if anything it helped it as it removed uncertainty of stock history .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a load of Bullshit.
Such electronic tagging has been mandated in many countries for years.
My brother and father are both small scale cattle farmers in Australia, electronic tagging if anything has reduced the cost and simplified tracking and stock yard sales, it didn't hurt the industry at all here, if anything it helped it as it removed uncertainty of stock history.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535665</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous paranoia</title>
	<author>Darkness404</author>
	<datestamp>1246361160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The point still remains that the same technology could be used for people for the same reasons especially if we have a few more swine flu or bird flu scares. Don't you realize that every violation of rights starts really really small? First copy protection just involved a word you had to type from the manual, not too bad right? Then it required serial codes, then you needed to register the serial codes on the internet and people started to get hurt (I remember buying a game at a large retailer with an already used serial code, so what did they do? They gave me a new game then I saw them hand it off to another person to be restocked back on the shelves.... But fact is, everything starts small, sure now this isn't a big deal, but one or two more swine flu outbreaks and it will inch closer to 1984 ever so slowly.... <br> <br>

Plus this could be used for slight bits of research for use in humans too.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The point still remains that the same technology could be used for people for the same reasons especially if we have a few more swine flu or bird flu scares .
Do n't you realize that every violation of rights starts really really small ?
First copy protection just involved a word you had to type from the manual , not too bad right ?
Then it required serial codes , then you needed to register the serial codes on the internet and people started to get hurt ( I remember buying a game at a large retailer with an already used serial code , so what did they do ?
They gave me a new game then I saw them hand it off to another person to be restocked back on the shelves.... But fact is , everything starts small , sure now this is n't a big deal , but one or two more swine flu outbreaks and it will inch closer to 1984 ever so slowly... . Plus this could be used for slight bits of research for use in humans too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The point still remains that the same technology could be used for people for the same reasons especially if we have a few more swine flu or bird flu scares.
Don't you realize that every violation of rights starts really really small?
First copy protection just involved a word you had to type from the manual, not too bad right?
Then it required serial codes, then you needed to register the serial codes on the internet and people started to get hurt (I remember buying a game at a large retailer with an already used serial code, so what did they do?
They gave me a new game then I saw them hand it off to another person to be restocked back on the shelves.... But fact is, everything starts small, sure now this isn't a big deal, but one or two more swine flu outbreaks and it will inch closer to 1984 ever so slowly....  

Plus this could be used for slight bits of research for use in humans too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536903</id>
	<title>Cattle Tracking</title>
	<author>TW Burger</author>
	<datestamp>1246368000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This has been done in Canada for years. Although it was started with a bar code ear tag with a registration number rather than RFID it allowed a cow to be tracked from birth to market shelf. With RFID in place since 2005 the process is even easier and probably faster.
<a href="http://www.cbef.com/cattle\_identification\_system.htm" title="cbef.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbef.com/cattle\_identification\_system.htm</a> [cbef.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>This has been done in Canada for years .
Although it was started with a bar code ear tag with a registration number rather than RFID it allowed a cow to be tracked from birth to market shelf .
With RFID in place since 2005 the process is even easier and probably faster .
http : //www.cbef.com/cattle \ _identification \ _system.htm [ cbef.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has been done in Canada for years.
Although it was started with a bar code ear tag with a registration number rather than RFID it allowed a cow to be tracked from birth to market shelf.
With RFID in place since 2005 the process is even easier and probably faster.
http://www.cbef.com/cattle\_identification\_system.htm [cbef.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540319</id>
	<title>Re:Sigh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246448820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> is that you only have rights to your free-range cattle if you can find and tag them within the first year after birth, after which they enter the public domain</p></div><p>Wow...public domain cattle... I think I'm going to start roaming the countryside next spring and find me some GPL-ed calves or maybe some BSD-licensed ones too (I hear they're tastier)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>is that you only have rights to your free-range cattle if you can find and tag them within the first year after birth , after which they enter the public domainWow...public domain cattle... I think I 'm going to start roaming the countryside next spring and find me some GPL-ed calves or maybe some BSD-licensed ones too ( I hear they 're tastier )</tokentext>
<sentencetext> is that you only have rights to your free-range cattle if you can find and tag them within the first year after birth, after which they enter the public domainWow...public domain cattle... I think I'm going to start roaming the countryside next spring and find me some GPL-ed calves or maybe some BSD-licensed ones too (I hear they're tastier)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535855</id>
	<title>This is just more stuff</title>
	<author>cdrguru</author>
	<datestamp>1246362120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I talked recently to a small farmer with a few cows.  They are already required to document entry and exit of cattle into and out of each county.  Since their farm has multiple fields which are in two separate counties, they are required to submit this documentation each time they move an animal between the two fields.  Which is of course stupid, but the regulations were designed without any consideration for a split-county operation like this.</p><p>This person has maybe 20 head, total.  With the existing regulations it is almost too much to bother with.  Adding more tracking, with more hardware requirements and obviously training for all hands involved it is going to be impractical for them to continue.</p><p>Yes, there were some feed problems for cows.  Most of these problems have been identified and dealt with.  I suspect there are still a few, but nothing that is going to create anything like the mad cow panic.  Piling more and more regulation, especially regulation that is not focused on real problems buy imaginary ones, will simply mean that all cattle are raised by factory farms.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I talked recently to a small farmer with a few cows .
They are already required to document entry and exit of cattle into and out of each county .
Since their farm has multiple fields which are in two separate counties , they are required to submit this documentation each time they move an animal between the two fields .
Which is of course stupid , but the regulations were designed without any consideration for a split-county operation like this.This person has maybe 20 head , total .
With the existing regulations it is almost too much to bother with .
Adding more tracking , with more hardware requirements and obviously training for all hands involved it is going to be impractical for them to continue.Yes , there were some feed problems for cows .
Most of these problems have been identified and dealt with .
I suspect there are still a few , but nothing that is going to create anything like the mad cow panic .
Piling more and more regulation , especially regulation that is not focused on real problems buy imaginary ones , will simply mean that all cattle are raised by factory farms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I talked recently to a small farmer with a few cows.
They are already required to document entry and exit of cattle into and out of each county.
Since their farm has multiple fields which are in two separate counties, they are required to submit this documentation each time they move an animal between the two fields.
Which is of course stupid, but the regulations were designed without any consideration for a split-county operation like this.This person has maybe 20 head, total.
With the existing regulations it is almost too much to bother with.
Adding more tracking, with more hardware requirements and obviously training for all hands involved it is going to be impractical for them to continue.Yes, there were some feed problems for cows.
Most of these problems have been identified and dealt with.
I suspect there are still a few, but nothing that is going to create anything like the mad cow panic.
Piling more and more regulation, especially regulation that is not focused on real problems buy imaginary ones, will simply mean that all cattle are raised by factory farms.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535411</id>
	<title>So work out the bugs and END MAD COW DISEASE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246359840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If all of us can take off our shoes etc. every time we fly to see grandma or get on a ferry, ranchers and meat packers can sure has hell do what it takes to make sure no one else dies of Mad Cow disease and the like in the US.  Quit being greedy bastards.  If there are some issues to fix, work with USDA (you all practically owned the place for the last 8 years).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If all of us can take off our shoes etc .
every time we fly to see grandma or get on a ferry , ranchers and meat packers can sure has hell do what it takes to make sure no one else dies of Mad Cow disease and the like in the US .
Quit being greedy bastards .
If there are some issues to fix , work with USDA ( you all practically owned the place for the last 8 years ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If all of us can take off our shoes etc.
every time we fly to see grandma or get on a ferry, ranchers and meat packers can sure has hell do what it takes to make sure no one else dies of Mad Cow disease and the like in the US.
Quit being greedy bastards.
If there are some issues to fix, work with USDA (you all practically owned the place for the last 8 years).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28542649</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246464540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So put the data on a thumb drive and send it via USPS to some gosh darn city slicker who does have an internet connection</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So put the data on a thumb drive and send it via USPS to some gosh darn city slicker who does have an internet connection</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So put the data on a thumb drive and send it via USPS to some gosh darn city slicker who does have an internet connection</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538689</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>mgblst</author>
	<datestamp>1246384620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Chicken is the worst meat to eat, full of all sort, antibiotics, growth hormone, vitamins, everything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Chicken is the worst meat to eat , full of all sort , antibiotics , growth hormone , vitamins , everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Chicken is the worst meat to eat, full of all sort, antibiotics, growth hormone, vitamins, everything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535535</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535581</id>
	<title>Give the cows cell phones.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246360680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon."

Too late; I already have a cell phone. I'm already being tracked.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Tracking cattle now , tracking you soon .
" Too late ; I already have a cell phone .
I 'm already being tracked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.
"

Too late; I already have a cell phone.
I'm already being tracked.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537275</id>
	<title>YET ANOTHER IDIOT, MORON , DEMOCRAT PROGRAM!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246371300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>YET ANOTHER IDIOT, MORON , DEMOCRAT PROGRAM!!!</p><p>Ranchers do not have any money to be able to comply with this!?!  The profit margins in the cattle business are squeaky thin as it is!</p><p>There is no money in the government for this program or any other!  They''ll just print more money and de-value the dollar even more!</p><p>Once again, I beg you:</p><p>Impeach obama and all democrats!    Remove the czars, they have no oversight (management)!</p><p>Do not let the criminal organization acorn or any of its' affiliates take any part in the census!</p><p>Do not let sotomyer become a supreme court justice!  She has been over-turned too many times and for not following the law!   We do not need any empathetic or sympathetic judges at the supreme court!</p><p>Deport all illegal aliens!  They are alread criminals - they crossed illegally!!</p><p>No government run health care plan!    No government funded health plan!   Reduce the rediculous judgements in mal-practice cases!</p><p>Return funding to hydrogen transportation projects!  Yeah, you green idiots - no battery waste! and fewer polutants!</p><p>Allow new and expanded nuclear power plants!  They are safe - the French use them!  One by-product is hydrogen which can fuel vehicles!  Now there is your cheap energy!</p><p>Restor funding for the Yuca mountain nuclear waste storage facility and stop the requirement that each state build thier own!    Each state building there own is Yet Another Idiot Moron Democrat Idea (YAIMDI)!</p><p>Repeal all laws passed since the innaguration!</p><p>Get the idiot moron so-called comedian al franken out of the senate!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>YET ANOTHER IDIOT , MORON , DEMOCRAT PROGRAM ! !
! Ranchers do not have any money to be able to comply with this ! ? !
The profit margins in the cattle business are squeaky thin as it is ! There is no money in the government for this program or any other !
They ' 'll just print more money and de-value the dollar even more ! Once again , I beg you : Impeach obama and all democrats !
Remove the czars , they have no oversight ( management ) ! Do not let the criminal organization acorn or any of its ' affiliates take any part in the census ! Do not let sotomyer become a supreme court justice !
She has been over-turned too many times and for not following the law !
We do not need any empathetic or sympathetic judges at the supreme court ! Deport all illegal aliens !
They are alread criminals - they crossed illegally !
! No government run health care plan !
No government funded health plan !
Reduce the rediculous judgements in mal-practice cases ! Return funding to hydrogen transportation projects !
Yeah , you green idiots - no battery waste !
and fewer polutants ! Allow new and expanded nuclear power plants !
They are safe - the French use them !
One by-product is hydrogen which can fuel vehicles !
Now there is your cheap energy ! Restor funding for the Yuca mountain nuclear waste storage facility and stop the requirement that each state build thier own !
Each state building there own is Yet Another Idiot Moron Democrat Idea ( YAIMDI ) ! Repeal all laws passed since the innaguration ! Get the idiot moron so-called comedian al franken out of the senate !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>YET ANOTHER IDIOT, MORON , DEMOCRAT PROGRAM!!
!Ranchers do not have any money to be able to comply with this!?!
The profit margins in the cattle business are squeaky thin as it is!There is no money in the government for this program or any other!
They''ll just print more money and de-value the dollar even more!Once again, I beg you:Impeach obama and all democrats!
Remove the czars, they have no oversight (management)!Do not let the criminal organization acorn or any of its' affiliates take any part in the census!Do not let sotomyer become a supreme court justice!
She has been over-turned too many times and for not following the law!
We do not need any empathetic or sympathetic judges at the supreme court!Deport all illegal aliens!
They are alread criminals - they crossed illegally!
!No government run health care plan!
No government funded health plan!
Reduce the rediculous judgements in mal-practice cases!Return funding to hydrogen transportation projects!
Yeah, you green idiots - no battery waste!
and fewer polutants!Allow new and expanded nuclear power plants!
They are safe - the French use them!
One by-product is hydrogen which can fuel vehicles!
Now there is your cheap energy!Restor funding for the Yuca mountain nuclear waste storage facility and stop the requirement that each state build thier own!
Each state building there own is Yet Another Idiot Moron Democrat Idea (YAIMDI)!Repeal all laws passed since the innaguration!Get the idiot moron so-called comedian al franken out of the senate!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538115</id>
	<title>Re:Personally Speaking</title>
	<author>twostix</author>
	<datestamp>1246378080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you eat feedlot meat (which you do as it's everywhere) then you've got bigger things to worry about.</p><p>If you saw what comes out of feedlots and the internals of the meat raised in them you'd be fighting tooth and nail to protect the independant old school farmers who let their cows roam free.</p><p>Instead you vomit a hysterical THINK OF THE CHILDREN style response like a useful idiot, playing right into the massive corporations hands who helped draft this legislation, knowing what it will do.</p><p>RFID tags aren't going to affect feedlots one little bit.  The meat will still be unfit for consumption.  It will drive old school operations out of business.</p><p>It's easy to tag 500 animals in a warehouse.</p><p>Bit harder to tag 500 animals spread over 2000 acres.</p><p>Enjoy your growth hormone, antibiotic flooded, disease ridden "meat".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you eat feedlot meat ( which you do as it 's everywhere ) then you 've got bigger things to worry about.If you saw what comes out of feedlots and the internals of the meat raised in them you 'd be fighting tooth and nail to protect the independant old school farmers who let their cows roam free.Instead you vomit a hysterical THINK OF THE CHILDREN style response like a useful idiot , playing right into the massive corporations hands who helped draft this legislation , knowing what it will do.RFID tags are n't going to affect feedlots one little bit .
The meat will still be unfit for consumption .
It will drive old school operations out of business.It 's easy to tag 500 animals in a warehouse.Bit harder to tag 500 animals spread over 2000 acres.Enjoy your growth hormone , antibiotic flooded , disease ridden " meat " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you eat feedlot meat (which you do as it's everywhere) then you've got bigger things to worry about.If you saw what comes out of feedlots and the internals of the meat raised in them you'd be fighting tooth and nail to protect the independant old school farmers who let their cows roam free.Instead you vomit a hysterical THINK OF THE CHILDREN style response like a useful idiot, playing right into the massive corporations hands who helped draft this legislation, knowing what it will do.RFID tags aren't going to affect feedlots one little bit.
The meat will still be unfit for consumption.
It will drive old school operations out of business.It's easy to tag 500 animals in a warehouse.Bit harder to tag 500 animals spread over 2000 acres.Enjoy your growth hormone, antibiotic flooded, disease ridden "meat".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28542243</id>
	<title>Big Agri-Businesses made up this idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246462740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This was specifically designed to hurt mom and pop ranches.  The added overhead could seriously cause them to go out of business.  Not to mention anyone that wants to own a single cow, goat, sheep, etc. and keep it on their property will be smacked with the same restrictions that the large agri-businesses made up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This was specifically designed to hurt mom and pop ranches .
The added overhead could seriously cause them to go out of business .
Not to mention anyone that wants to own a single cow , goat , sheep , etc .
and keep it on their property will be smacked with the same restrictions that the large agri-businesses made up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This was specifically designed to hurt mom and pop ranches.
The added overhead could seriously cause them to go out of business.
Not to mention anyone that wants to own a single cow, goat, sheep, etc.
and keep it on their property will be smacked with the same restrictions that the large agri-businesses made up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537145</id>
	<title>Priorities are fucked up.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246370160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Health of cattle eaters should always be placed before the health of the cattle industry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Health of cattle eaters should always be placed before the health of the cattle industry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Health of cattle eaters should always be placed before the health of the cattle industry.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28539071</id>
	<title>Re: worst that can happen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246389060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If the bovine has done nothing wrong, surely it has nothing to fear from being tracked. After what's the worst that can happen to it?</p></div><p>You mean like...</p><blockquote><div><p>We are free roving bovines<br>We run free today</p><p>We will fight for bovine freedom<br>And hold our large heads high</p><p>We will run free with the Buffalo<br>Or die</p><p>Cows with guns</p></div></blockquote><p>[ Source: <a href="http://www.cowswithguns.com/cgi-bin/listen\_animation.cgi" title="cowswithguns.com" rel="nofollow">Cows with guns</a> [cowswithguns.com] ]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the bovine has done nothing wrong , surely it has nothing to fear from being tracked .
After what 's the worst that can happen to it ? You mean like...We are free roving bovinesWe run free todayWe will fight for bovine freedomAnd hold our large heads highWe will run free with the BuffaloOr dieCows with guns [ Source : Cows with guns [ cowswithguns.com ] ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the bovine has done nothing wrong, surely it has nothing to fear from being tracked.
After what's the worst that can happen to it?You mean like...We are free roving bovinesWe run free todayWe will fight for bovine freedomAnd hold our large heads highWe will run free with the BuffaloOr dieCows with guns[ Source: Cows with guns [cowswithguns.com] ]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540597</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>bloodhawk</author>
	<datestamp>1246452300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You guys need to get with the times, rfid tagging of cattle has been going on in other countries for years very successfully, Australia has had this mandated by law for 4 or 5 years now and if you think Oregon outback is big you really should take a look at the sparsity of the Australian outback. The system works very effectively and is by no means onerous of farmers (I am the only one in my family that is not a cattle or sheep farmer). It was frowned upon by small scale farmers here at first till they saw how easy and usefull it was.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You guys need to get with the times , rfid tagging of cattle has been going on in other countries for years very successfully , Australia has had this mandated by law for 4 or 5 years now and if you think Oregon outback is big you really should take a look at the sparsity of the Australian outback .
The system works very effectively and is by no means onerous of farmers ( I am the only one in my family that is not a cattle or sheep farmer ) .
It was frowned upon by small scale farmers here at first till they saw how easy and usefull it was .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You guys need to get with the times, rfid tagging of cattle has been going on in other countries for years very successfully, Australia has had this mandated by law for 4 or 5 years now and if you think Oregon outback is big you really should take a look at the sparsity of the Australian outback.
The system works very effectively and is by no means onerous of farmers (I am the only one in my family that is not a cattle or sheep farmer).
It was frowned upon by small scale farmers here at first till they saw how easy and usefull it was.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536547</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>stryyker</author>
	<datestamp>1246365600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's hard to think of any industry that likes any increase in costs. They all fight it.

Why don't they look to Australia? We already do similar. We have the largest cattle station in the world. It managed to adjust. Plenty of small operations too. They managed.

It would be easier for all operators to swallow if some kind of levy is used across the industry. Then your only issue then is imports.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's hard to think of any industry that likes any increase in costs .
They all fight it .
Why do n't they look to Australia ?
We already do similar .
We have the largest cattle station in the world .
It managed to adjust .
Plenty of small operations too .
They managed .
It would be easier for all operators to swallow if some kind of levy is used across the industry .
Then your only issue then is imports .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's hard to think of any industry that likes any increase in costs.
They all fight it.
Why don't they look to Australia?
We already do similar.
We have the largest cattle station in the world.
It managed to adjust.
Plenty of small operations too.
They managed.
It would be easier for all operators to swallow if some kind of levy is used across the industry.
Then your only issue then is imports.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28540515</id>
	<title>Re:So work out the bugs and END MAD COW DISEASE</title>
	<author>bogjobber</author>
	<datestamp>1246451580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p><i>If all of us can take off our shoes etc. every time we fly to see grandma or get on a ferry, ranchers and meat packers can sure has hell do what it takes to make sure no one else dies of Mad Cow disease and the like in the US.</i></p></div>  </blockquote><p>"No one else" implies that someone has died.  We've barely even had mad cow disease, let alone had anyone die from it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If all of us can take off our shoes etc .
every time we fly to see grandma or get on a ferry , ranchers and meat packers can sure has hell do what it takes to make sure no one else dies of Mad Cow disease and the like in the US .
" No one else " implies that someone has died .
We 've barely even had mad cow disease , let alone had anyone die from it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If all of us can take off our shoes etc.
every time we fly to see grandma or get on a ferry, ranchers and meat packers can sure has hell do what it takes to make sure no one else dies of Mad Cow disease and the like in the US.
"No one else" implies that someone has died.
We've barely even had mad cow disease, let alone had anyone die from it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535411</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535721</id>
	<title>Same story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246361340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as small toy makers.  Mattel, Hasbro, et al. wrote the Lead-Free legislation.  Not too surprisingly the requirements are onerous for local one-off type toy makers that saw a boon after the lead doped Chinese manufactured toy story broke.  This is the tragedy of American democracy.  You don't really have much say in law.  Well connected people with money do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as small toy makers .
Mattel , Hasbro , et al .
wrote the Lead-Free legislation .
Not too surprisingly the requirements are onerous for local one-off type toy makers that saw a boon after the lead doped Chinese manufactured toy story broke .
This is the tragedy of American democracy .
You do n't really have much say in law .
Well connected people with money do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as small toy makers.
Mattel, Hasbro, et al.
wrote the Lead-Free legislation.
Not too surprisingly the requirements are onerous for local one-off type toy makers that saw a boon after the lead doped Chinese manufactured toy story broke.
This is the tragedy of American democracy.
You don't really have much say in law.
Well connected people with money do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28572485</id>
	<title>Re:Smaller != Sustainable</title>
	<author>crmarvin42</author>
	<datestamp>1246640820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hate to reply to my own post, but as an FYI to those with mod points.  <br> <b>Overrated mod is not supposed to be use to mod down those you disagree with.</b>  Argue your point if you wish, but censorship based on ideology is assinine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hate to reply to my own post , but as an FYI to those with mod points .
Overrated mod is not supposed to be use to mod down those you disagree with .
Argue your point if you wish , but censorship based on ideology is assinine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hate to reply to my own post, but as an FYI to those with mod points.
Overrated mod is not supposed to be use to mod down those you disagree with.
Argue your point if you wish, but censorship based on ideology is assinine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536855</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28537329</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous paranoia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246371720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>the reason cows have no rights is because they aren't capable of even thinking about the concept of rights</i></p><p>Your statement implies that people of severe mental retardation and infants have no rights, and therefore can be commercially exploited. Likewise slaves and women clearly understood their interests were not being considered.</p><p>Rights should be universal, and not limited to race, sex, or species.</p><p>The most basic right: <i>the right not to be regarded as property</i>, should apply to all sentient beings.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the reason cows have no rights is because they are n't capable of even thinking about the concept of rightsYour statement implies that people of severe mental retardation and infants have no rights , and therefore can be commercially exploited .
Likewise slaves and women clearly understood their interests were not being considered.Rights should be universal , and not limited to race , sex , or species.The most basic right : the right not to be regarded as property , should apply to all sentient beings .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the reason cows have no rights is because they aren't capable of even thinking about the concept of rightsYour statement implies that people of severe mental retardation and infants have no rights, and therefore can be commercially exploited.
Likewise slaves and women clearly understood their interests were not being considered.Rights should be universal, and not limited to race, sex, or species.The most basic right: the right not to be regarded as property, should apply to all sentient beings.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535387</id>
	<title>Sigh.</title>
	<author>SatanicPuppy</author>
	<datestamp>1246359720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nothing ever changes. This is the exact argument that they made in the 1900's when the FDA was first trying to reduce the number of human body parts that made it into canned meat: "Waaaaaa, you're going to put us out of business! Waaaaaaaa, no one could ever collect this much information!"</p><p>I call BS. If I stole a cow from one of those giant farms, the damn rancher'd be able to identify it in a second, but the instant you want to track something for public safety reasons, "there is no way they could ever collect that information."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nothing ever changes .
This is the exact argument that they made in the 1900 's when the FDA was first trying to reduce the number of human body parts that made it into canned meat : " Waaaaaa , you 're going to put us out of business !
Waaaaaaaa , no one could ever collect this much information !
" I call BS .
If I stole a cow from one of those giant farms , the damn rancher 'd be able to identify it in a second , but the instant you want to track something for public safety reasons , " there is no way they could ever collect that information .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nothing ever changes.
This is the exact argument that they made in the 1900's when the FDA was first trying to reduce the number of human body parts that made it into canned meat: "Waaaaaa, you're going to put us out of business!
Waaaaaaaa, no one could ever collect this much information!
"I call BS.
If I stole a cow from one of those giant farms, the damn rancher'd be able to identify it in a second, but the instant you want to track something for public safety reasons, "there is no way they could ever collect that information.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535647</id>
	<title>Re:Tracking</title>
	<author>rjhubs</author>
	<datestamp>1246361040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't this skirting the issue though?  The solution to Mad Cow disease should be having regulations against having spinal meat being processed and sold to consumers.  Granted being able to eradicate sick cows is a bonus, taking simple measures in how we process are meat solves the most serious problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't this skirting the issue though ?
The solution to Mad Cow disease should be having regulations against having spinal meat being processed and sold to consumers .
Granted being able to eradicate sick cows is a bonus , taking simple measures in how we process are meat solves the most serious problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't this skirting the issue though?
The solution to Mad Cow disease should be having regulations against having spinal meat being processed and sold to consumers.
Granted being able to eradicate sick cows is a bonus, taking simple measures in how we process are meat solves the most serious problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28539601</id>
	<title>Re:Let it collapse</title>
	<author>civilizedINTENSITY</author>
	<datestamp>1246439160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While I can understand how some might think the preceding comment was a troll, I know many educated and knowledgeable people who are similarly disgusted with our modern meat industry.  Just because you disagree doesn't mean the Anon Cowardon was trolling.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While I can understand how some might think the preceding comment was a troll , I know many educated and knowledgeable people who are similarly disgusted with our modern meat industry .
Just because you disagree does n't mean the Anon Cowardon was trolling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I can understand how some might think the preceding comment was a troll, I know many educated and knowledgeable people who are similarly disgusted with our modern meat industry.
Just because you disagree doesn't mean the Anon Cowardon was trolling.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535823</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous paranoia</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1246361940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>First they came for the cattle, and I said nothing, for I was not cattle.<br>
Then they came for the ducks, and I said nothing, for I eat not ducks.<br>
Then they came for the spinach and I said nothing, as long as I get some.<br> <br>
Seriously, that last sentence of your post is somewhat ironic considering your sig.  It's also kind of pathetic that we even need to consider this in any sort of paranoia context, instead of considering the cost/benefit side of things, since that's what it really comes down to.  I have no idea either way, but I have my doubts about the benefits.</htmltext>
<tokenext>First they came for the cattle , and I said nothing , for I was not cattle .
Then they came for the ducks , and I said nothing , for I eat not ducks .
Then they came for the spinach and I said nothing , as long as I get some .
Seriously , that last sentence of your post is somewhat ironic considering your sig .
It 's also kind of pathetic that we even need to consider this in any sort of paranoia context , instead of considering the cost/benefit side of things , since that 's what it really comes down to .
I have no idea either way , but I have my doubts about the benefits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First they came for the cattle, and I said nothing, for I was not cattle.
Then they came for the ducks, and I said nothing, for I eat not ducks.
Then they came for the spinach and I said nothing, as long as I get some.
Seriously, that last sentence of your post is somewhat ironic considering your sig.
It's also kind of pathetic that we even need to consider this in any sort of paranoia context, instead of considering the cost/benefit side of things, since that's what it really comes down to.
I have no idea either way, but I have my doubts about the benefits.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28535519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536015</id>
	<title>Scary..</title>
	<author>cyberjock1980</author>
	<datestamp>1246362840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What scares me about this idea is in the article itself.  'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.' seems so much more likely than I thought at first.</p><p>FTA: "The FDA wants to track cow movements in case a breakout of bovine tuberculosis."</p><p>Why does this sound very similar to an arguement in 20 years saying...</p><p>"The US Government wants to track human movements in case a breakout of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>."</p><p>I could totally see the Government setting up 'checkpoints' at airports, highways, etc that you walk/drive by and it just watches where you go.  Scary thought, but I believe the technology to make this a reality is here already.  Anyone disagree?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What scares me about this idea is in the article itself .
'Tracking cattle now , tracking you soon .
' seems so much more likely than I thought at first.FTA : " The FDA wants to track cow movements in case a breakout of bovine tuberculosis .
" Why does this sound very similar to an arguement in 20 years saying... " The US Government wants to track human movements in case a breakout of .
" I could totally see the Government setting up 'checkpoints ' at airports , highways , etc that you walk/drive by and it just watches where you go .
Scary thought , but I believe the technology to make this a reality is here already .
Anyone disagree ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What scares me about this idea is in the article itself.
'Tracking cattle now, tracking you soon.
' seems so much more likely than I thought at first.FTA: "The FDA wants to track cow movements in case a breakout of bovine tuberculosis.
"Why does this sound very similar to an arguement in 20 years saying..."The US Government wants to track human movements in case a breakout of .
"I could totally see the Government setting up 'checkpoints' at airports, highways, etc that you walk/drive by and it just watches where you go.
Scary thought, but I believe the technology to make this a reality is here already.
Anyone disagree?</sentencetext>
</comment>
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536231
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536459
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28536961
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_1917212.28538263
</commentlist>
</conversation>
