<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_30_0654217</id>
	<title>In Defense of the Classic Controller</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1246365120000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Kotaku has an opinion piece by Leigh Alexander <a href="http://kotaku.com/5303609/in-defense-of-the-classic-controller">singing the praises of classic, button-rich controllers</a> for the level of precision and complexity they offer. While the Wii Remote and upcoming motion-control offerings from Microsoft and Sony are <a href="http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/06/12/0450237/Why-Natal-Is-a-Big-Deal?from=rss">generating a lot of interest</a>, there will always be games for which more traditional input devices are better suited. Quoting:
<i>"With all this talk about new audiences &mdash; and the tech designed to serve them &mdash; it's easy to get excited. It's also easy to feel a little lost in the shuffle. For gamers who've been there since before anyone cared about making games 'for everyone,' having that object in our hands was more than a way to access the game world &mdash; it was half the appeal. Anyone who's ever pulled off a chain of combos in a console fighter can tell you about the joy of expertise and control. ... Gamers may suffer some kind of identity crisis as the familiar markers of their beloved niche evolve &mdash; or disappear entirely. The solution to that one's easy: Get over it. Like it or not, it's clear that gaming's not a 'niche' anymore, and its shape will change. The more pressing issue is whether or not controller-less gaming will truly make the medium richer. Making something 'more accessible' doesn't necessarily make it <em>better</em>."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kotaku has an opinion piece by Leigh Alexander singing the praises of classic , button-rich controllers for the level of precision and complexity they offer .
While the Wii Remote and upcoming motion-control offerings from Microsoft and Sony are generating a lot of interest , there will always be games for which more traditional input devices are better suited .
Quoting : " With all this talk about new audiences    and the tech designed to serve them    it 's easy to get excited .
It 's also easy to feel a little lost in the shuffle .
For gamers who 've been there since before anyone cared about making games 'for everyone, ' having that object in our hands was more than a way to access the game world    it was half the appeal .
Anyone who 's ever pulled off a chain of combos in a console fighter can tell you about the joy of expertise and control .
... Gamers may suffer some kind of identity crisis as the familiar markers of their beloved niche evolve    or disappear entirely .
The solution to that one 's easy : Get over it .
Like it or not , it 's clear that gaming 's not a 'niche ' anymore , and its shape will change .
The more pressing issue is whether or not controller-less gaming will truly make the medium richer .
Making something 'more accessible ' does n't necessarily make it better .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kotaku has an opinion piece by Leigh Alexander singing the praises of classic, button-rich controllers for the level of precision and complexity they offer.
While the Wii Remote and upcoming motion-control offerings from Microsoft and Sony are generating a lot of interest, there will always be games for which more traditional input devices are better suited.
Quoting:
"With all this talk about new audiences — and the tech designed to serve them — it's easy to get excited.
It's also easy to feel a little lost in the shuffle.
For gamers who've been there since before anyone cared about making games 'for everyone,' having that object in our hands was more than a way to access the game world — it was half the appeal.
Anyone who's ever pulled off a chain of combos in a console fighter can tell you about the joy of expertise and control.
... Gamers may suffer some kind of identity crisis as the familiar markers of their beloved niche evolve — or disappear entirely.
The solution to that one's easy: Get over it.
Like it or not, it's clear that gaming's not a 'niche' anymore, and its shape will change.
The more pressing issue is whether or not controller-less gaming will truly make the medium richer.
Making something 'more accessible' doesn't necessarily make it better.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28532981</id>
	<title>Re:No, gamepads suck</title>
	<author>BobMcD</author>
	<datestamp>1246391880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Playing console shooters is like steering a drunk camel compared to on the PC.</p></div><p>I'm a camel jockey for a brewery, you insensitive clod!</p><p>But serious, who has EVER attempted to steer a drunk camel?  For all I know, it could be easier...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Playing console shooters is like steering a drunk camel compared to on the PC.I 'm a camel jockey for a brewery , you insensitive clod ! But serious , who has EVER attempted to steer a drunk camel ?
For all I know , it could be easier.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Playing console shooters is like steering a drunk camel compared to on the PC.I'm a camel jockey for a brewery, you insensitive clod!But serious, who has EVER attempted to steer a drunk camel?
For all I know, it could be easier...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28532731</id>
	<title>keyboard and mouse still best</title>
	<author>Dan667</author>
	<datestamp>1246390920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>With all the advances, a keyboard and mouse are still the best way to play most games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>With all the advances , a keyboard and mouse are still the best way to play most games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With all the advances, a keyboard and mouse are still the best way to play most games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527385</id>
	<title>Re:Bah; kinesophobia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246372620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, my first thought was "Great, one of those freaks who could actually pull off every single move and combination in Street Fighter at will is whining because he might have an unreasonable edge in new games."  For games like FPS, game controllers aren't anywhere near as precise as keyboard/mouse or using the wiimote as a pointing device.  Button-mashing mechanics will only be missed by those who had an over-reliance on it for winning.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , my first thought was " Great , one of those freaks who could actually pull off every single move and combination in Street Fighter at will is whining because he might have an unreasonable edge in new games .
" For games like FPS , game controllers are n't anywhere near as precise as keyboard/mouse or using the wiimote as a pointing device .
Button-mashing mechanics will only be missed by those who had an over-reliance on it for winning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, my first thought was "Great, one of those freaks who could actually pull off every single move and combination in Street Fighter at will is whining because he might have an unreasonable edge in new games.
"  For games like FPS, game controllers aren't anywhere near as precise as keyboard/mouse or using the wiimote as a pointing device.
Button-mashing mechanics will only be missed by those who had an over-reliance on it for winning.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527361</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246372500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That, or the Sega Genesis controller. Every controller to come out after those two has been a real pain in the ass to use.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That , or the Sega Genesis controller .
Every controller to come out after those two has been a real pain in the ass to use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That, or the Sega Genesis controller.
Every controller to come out after those two has been a real pain in the ass to use.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28530047</id>
	<title>Controllers...</title>
	<author>MaWeiTao</author>
	<datestamp>1246382820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having tried various control pads over the years I personally think the PS2/PS3 controller is among the best. I generally find the placement of controls to be quite comfortable. The biggest problem I've encountered with control pads stems from poor game design, specifically function overload. Developers will overdo it with buttons having multiple functions in different scenarios, too many actions using too many buttons, and no thought given to how a gamer will interact with the controller.</p><p>However, as others have mentioned, it really comes down to the game. On the PC I primarily use the keyboard/mouse combination and find it to be excellent for FPSs, RTSs and many RPGs. Control pads are extremely imprecise and suck the fun from any FPS.</p><p>As for motion controllers, including the Wiimote and Guitar Hero/Rockband instruments, they can be great fun. The Wiimote has issues with precision, but I don't count that against it because the technology is in its infancy. The problem is, however, that these controllers clearly don't work for many games and sometimes I just want to sit and relax. I don't want the nuisance of having to wave my arms every time I play a game.</p><p>As for racing games, obviously wheels and pedals are ideal. However, a few years ago I had this controller for the PC that was reminiscent of controllers for RC cars. The wheel sat on top of the controller and the trigger moved both forwards and back. I thought it was one of the most precise controllers I've ever used for racing games. Certainly, it's not quite the same as a full steering wheel, but it made it easy to be precise and react quickly and it had the advantage of being compact.</p><p>Still, if I were to choose a controller that was the best all-around for the widest variety of games it would have to be the traditional control pad. The mouse and keyboard combination is close behind and surpasses everything else in certain genres. Motion controllers are great for only a limited set of games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having tried various control pads over the years I personally think the PS2/PS3 controller is among the best .
I generally find the placement of controls to be quite comfortable .
The biggest problem I 've encountered with control pads stems from poor game design , specifically function overload .
Developers will overdo it with buttons having multiple functions in different scenarios , too many actions using too many buttons , and no thought given to how a gamer will interact with the controller.However , as others have mentioned , it really comes down to the game .
On the PC I primarily use the keyboard/mouse combination and find it to be excellent for FPSs , RTSs and many RPGs .
Control pads are extremely imprecise and suck the fun from any FPS.As for motion controllers , including the Wiimote and Guitar Hero/Rockband instruments , they can be great fun .
The Wiimote has issues with precision , but I do n't count that against it because the technology is in its infancy .
The problem is , however , that these controllers clearly do n't work for many games and sometimes I just want to sit and relax .
I do n't want the nuisance of having to wave my arms every time I play a game.As for racing games , obviously wheels and pedals are ideal .
However , a few years ago I had this controller for the PC that was reminiscent of controllers for RC cars .
The wheel sat on top of the controller and the trigger moved both forwards and back .
I thought it was one of the most precise controllers I 've ever used for racing games .
Certainly , it 's not quite the same as a full steering wheel , but it made it easy to be precise and react quickly and it had the advantage of being compact.Still , if I were to choose a controller that was the best all-around for the widest variety of games it would have to be the traditional control pad .
The mouse and keyboard combination is close behind and surpasses everything else in certain genres .
Motion controllers are great for only a limited set of games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having tried various control pads over the years I personally think the PS2/PS3 controller is among the best.
I generally find the placement of controls to be quite comfortable.
The biggest problem I've encountered with control pads stems from poor game design, specifically function overload.
Developers will overdo it with buttons having multiple functions in different scenarios, too many actions using too many buttons, and no thought given to how a gamer will interact with the controller.However, as others have mentioned, it really comes down to the game.
On the PC I primarily use the keyboard/mouse combination and find it to be excellent for FPSs, RTSs and many RPGs.
Control pads are extremely imprecise and suck the fun from any FPS.As for motion controllers, including the Wiimote and Guitar Hero/Rockband instruments, they can be great fun.
The Wiimote has issues with precision, but I don't count that against it because the technology is in its infancy.
The problem is, however, that these controllers clearly don't work for many games and sometimes I just want to sit and relax.
I don't want the nuisance of having to wave my arms every time I play a game.As for racing games, obviously wheels and pedals are ideal.
However, a few years ago I had this controller for the PC that was reminiscent of controllers for RC cars.
The wheel sat on top of the controller and the trigger moved both forwards and back.
I thought it was one of the most precise controllers I've ever used for racing games.
Certainly, it's not quite the same as a full steering wheel, but it made it easy to be precise and react quickly and it had the advantage of being compact.Still, if I were to choose a controller that was the best all-around for the widest variety of games it would have to be the traditional control pad.
The mouse and keyboard combination is close behind and surpasses everything else in certain genres.
Motion controllers are great for only a limited set of games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28538853</id>
	<title>Re:No, gamepads suck</title>
	<author>CronoCloud</author>
	<datestamp>1246386420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've actually played RTS's with a gamepad, how it works is that the pad or stick controls the pointer like a mouse would, including dragging over units.  Most RTS's on the consoles have mouse support though, but it doesn't actually improve control enough to make much of a difference.</p><p>It does make a difference with aiming in FPS's, so if I can, I play console FPS's with a mouse in the right hand and Dual Shock in the left.  Having analog movement is a godsend in FPS's with stealth elements.  Tried playing the PC version of Deus Ex to compare it with the PS2 version (which also supports keyboard too in addition to the mouse), movement sucked with WASD, but with that analog stick it was great.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've actually played RTS 's with a gamepad , how it works is that the pad or stick controls the pointer like a mouse would , including dragging over units .
Most RTS 's on the consoles have mouse support though , but it does n't actually improve control enough to make much of a difference.It does make a difference with aiming in FPS 's , so if I can , I play console FPS 's with a mouse in the right hand and Dual Shock in the left .
Having analog movement is a godsend in FPS 's with stealth elements .
Tried playing the PC version of Deus Ex to compare it with the PS2 version ( which also supports keyboard too in addition to the mouse ) , movement sucked with WASD , but with that analog stick it was great .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've actually played RTS's with a gamepad, how it works is that the pad or stick controls the pointer like a mouse would, including dragging over units.
Most RTS's on the consoles have mouse support though, but it doesn't actually improve control enough to make much of a difference.It does make a difference with aiming in FPS's, so if I can, I play console FPS's with a mouse in the right hand and Dual Shock in the left.
Having analog movement is a godsend in FPS's with stealth elements.
Tried playing the PC version of Deus Ex to compare it with the PS2 version (which also supports keyboard too in addition to the mouse), movement sucked with WASD, but with that analog stick it was great.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526817</id>
	<title>Re:sigh</title>
	<author>bwalling</author>
	<datestamp>1246369800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>You'll just have to live with the fact that your beloved button based games might have to sit next to some motion control games on the store shelves. But that's not really something worth whining about.</p></div></blockquote><p>I think their fear is that sales numbers of non-button mashing games might cause a supply shift.  Really, though, they're just whining about change.  Everyone whines about changing things they're used to.  After a while, they look back and say "what was I thinking back then".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'll just have to live with the fact that your beloved button based games might have to sit next to some motion control games on the store shelves .
But that 's not really something worth whining about.I think their fear is that sales numbers of non-button mashing games might cause a supply shift .
Really , though , they 're just whining about change .
Everyone whines about changing things they 're used to .
After a while , they look back and say " what was I thinking back then " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'll just have to live with the fact that your beloved button based games might have to sit next to some motion control games on the store shelves.
But that's not really something worth whining about.I think their fear is that sales numbers of non-button mashing games might cause a supply shift.
Really, though, they're just whining about change.
Everyone whines about changing things they're used to.
After a while, they look back and say "what was I thinking back then".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526729</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526843</id>
	<title>No</title>
	<author>sesshomaru</author>
	<datestamp>1246369980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <em><br>Gamers may suffer some kind of identity crisis as the familiar markers of their beloved niche evolve  or disappear entirely. The solution to that one's easy: Get over it.<br></em></p></div></blockquote><p>You know, I always think it's great when people say this, but they always forget the alternative... I don't have to play video games if I don't think they are fun.  There are tons of other things to do in this world.  In fact, I'm actually not going to play video games if I don't think they are fun.  I have something called a job for when I want to do things that aren't fun.</p><p>More importantly for the people who say, "Get over it," if I find that the new video games aren't fun, I'll stop buying them and wait until someone produces some that are worthy.  Heck, since I'll likely fill my leisure time with alternative activities I might just forget that games exist entirely....</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gamers may suffer some kind of identity crisis as the familiar markers of their beloved niche evolve or disappear entirely .
The solution to that one 's easy : Get over it.You know , I always think it 's great when people say this , but they always forget the alternative... I do n't have to play video games if I do n't think they are fun .
There are tons of other things to do in this world .
In fact , I 'm actually not going to play video games if I do n't think they are fun .
I have something called a job for when I want to do things that are n't fun.More importantly for the people who say , " Get over it , " if I find that the new video games are n't fun , I 'll stop buying them and wait until someone produces some that are worthy .
Heck , since I 'll likely fill my leisure time with alternative activities I might just forget that games exist entirely... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Gamers may suffer some kind of identity crisis as the familiar markers of their beloved niche evolve  or disappear entirely.
The solution to that one's easy: Get over it.You know, I always think it's great when people say this, but they always forget the alternative... I don't have to play video games if I don't think they are fun.
There are tons of other things to do in this world.
In fact, I'm actually not going to play video games if I don't think they are fun.
I have something called a job for when I want to do things that aren't fun.More importantly for the people who say, "Get over it," if I find that the new video games aren't fun, I'll stop buying them and wait until someone produces some that are worthy.
Heck, since I'll likely fill my leisure time with alternative activities I might just forget that games exist entirely....
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527119</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>cupantae</author>
	<datestamp>1246371420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to think so, too, but I think Sony made the right decision in developing the Playstation controller: it fits perfectly in large hands. If you think back to when the Playstation was launched, there was a clear message that this was serious stuff - no more cutesy characters running about. Now, holding my SNES pad (in hands big enough to pick up a basketball with just one), there's a lot of empty space.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to think so , too , but I think Sony made the right decision in developing the Playstation controller : it fits perfectly in large hands .
If you think back to when the Playstation was launched , there was a clear message that this was serious stuff - no more cutesy characters running about .
Now , holding my SNES pad ( in hands big enough to pick up a basketball with just one ) , there 's a lot of empty space .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to think so, too, but I think Sony made the right decision in developing the Playstation controller: it fits perfectly in large hands.
If you think back to when the Playstation was launched, there was a clear message that this was serious stuff - no more cutesy characters running about.
Now, holding my SNES pad (in hands big enough to pick up a basketball with just one), there's a lot of empty space.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528279</id>
	<title>Button loss anxiety is justifialble.</title>
	<author>BetterSense</author>
	<datestamp>1246376640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's a legitimate worry. People keep assuring gamers that the two control systems will exist side-by side. They have a right to be skeptical.<br><br>Once upon a time, all movies were silent, and then someone invented the talkie. Great, now we can have silent movies AND talking movies! No, the reality is we only have talking movies. Eventually nobody makes silent movies anymore.<br><br>Same thing with black and white. Someone invents color film, and people thing WOW, great more options! Now we will have black and white and color movies! But the reality is we only have color movies after all. If you want to see a black and white movie you have to watch on old one or an independently produced one. Nobody makes them because nobody thinks they will sell, and only weird hardcore artsy people would value such an obsolete aesthetic on purpose.<br><br>Same thing with 2D sprite-based games. 3D comes along, and people at first thing Great! This 3D stuff is neat, now we can have 3D and 2D games. And good thing, because entire genres of games and styles of art are built around 2D graphics. There's no way people will just stop making 2D games.  But the reality is that they do. After a while we only have 3D games after all, and 2D games are not taken seriously anymore.<br><br>I think that gamers are entirely justified in worrying about losing button-based gameplay when they see the hoards of casual gamers and advertising hype around motion-based control. In technology as soon as something is viewed as old-fashioned the perception is that it won't sell, whether it's black-and-white film or 2D graphics or button-based gameplay.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a legitimate worry .
People keep assuring gamers that the two control systems will exist side-by side .
They have a right to be skeptical.Once upon a time , all movies were silent , and then someone invented the talkie .
Great , now we can have silent movies AND talking movies !
No , the reality is we only have talking movies .
Eventually nobody makes silent movies anymore.Same thing with black and white .
Someone invents color film , and people thing WOW , great more options !
Now we will have black and white and color movies !
But the reality is we only have color movies after all .
If you want to see a black and white movie you have to watch on old one or an independently produced one .
Nobody makes them because nobody thinks they will sell , and only weird hardcore artsy people would value such an obsolete aesthetic on purpose.Same thing with 2D sprite-based games .
3D comes along , and people at first thing Great !
This 3D stuff is neat , now we can have 3D and 2D games .
And good thing , because entire genres of games and styles of art are built around 2D graphics .
There 's no way people will just stop making 2D games .
But the reality is that they do .
After a while we only have 3D games after all , and 2D games are not taken seriously anymore.I think that gamers are entirely justified in worrying about losing button-based gameplay when they see the hoards of casual gamers and advertising hype around motion-based control .
In technology as soon as something is viewed as old-fashioned the perception is that it wo n't sell , whether it 's black-and-white film or 2D graphics or button-based gameplay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a legitimate worry.
People keep assuring gamers that the two control systems will exist side-by side.
They have a right to be skeptical.Once upon a time, all movies were silent, and then someone invented the talkie.
Great, now we can have silent movies AND talking movies!
No, the reality is we only have talking movies.
Eventually nobody makes silent movies anymore.Same thing with black and white.
Someone invents color film, and people thing WOW, great more options!
Now we will have black and white and color movies!
But the reality is we only have color movies after all.
If you want to see a black and white movie you have to watch on old one or an independently produced one.
Nobody makes them because nobody thinks they will sell, and only weird hardcore artsy people would value such an obsolete aesthetic on purpose.Same thing with 2D sprite-based games.
3D comes along, and people at first thing Great!
This 3D stuff is neat, now we can have 3D and 2D games.
And good thing, because entire genres of games and styles of art are built around 2D graphics.
There's no way people will just stop making 2D games.
But the reality is that they do.
After a while we only have 3D games after all, and 2D games are not taken seriously anymore.I think that gamers are entirely justified in worrying about losing button-based gameplay when they see the hoards of casual gamers and advertising hype around motion-based control.
In technology as soon as something is viewed as old-fashioned the perception is that it won't sell, whether it's black-and-white film or 2D graphics or button-based gameplay.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528637</id>
	<title>Re:No, gamepads suck</title>
	<author>mrchaotica</author>
	<datestamp>1246377900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Gamepads, or the "classic" controllers he's whining about, actually suck quite a lot. They have terrible precision when compared to a mouse, don't work that well for things like Flight Sims when compared to a flightstick...</p></div></blockquote><p>You need to make a distinction between thumb-joystick controllers and actual "classic" (non-analog) controllers. Regarding thumb joysticks, I agree with you: they're simply too small (and therefore too sensitive) to even begin to compete with a mouse/full-size joystick/whatever. But classic D-pad controllers, on the other hand, are <em>different</em>. Yes, they're not suited for flight sims in the same way a joystick is, in the sense of making smooth turns and such. However, flying (or in my forthcoming example, racing) games <em>designed</em> for D-pads can have their own other sort of appeal. Take F-Zero (and SNES racing game), for instance. It wasn't a realistic racing experience by any stretch of the imagination, but it was surprisingly satisfying when you (for example) hit the left or right buttons for exactly the right duration to aim your car exactly parallel to the straightaway barrier. It had it's own kind of precision that way -- different than the experience using a wheel or joystick, but just as worthwhile!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gamepads , or the " classic " controllers he 's whining about , actually suck quite a lot .
They have terrible precision when compared to a mouse , do n't work that well for things like Flight Sims when compared to a flightstick...You need to make a distinction between thumb-joystick controllers and actual " classic " ( non-analog ) controllers .
Regarding thumb joysticks , I agree with you : they 're simply too small ( and therefore too sensitive ) to even begin to compete with a mouse/full-size joystick/whatever .
But classic D-pad controllers , on the other hand , are different .
Yes , they 're not suited for flight sims in the same way a joystick is , in the sense of making smooth turns and such .
However , flying ( or in my forthcoming example , racing ) games designed for D-pads can have their own other sort of appeal .
Take F-Zero ( and SNES racing game ) , for instance .
It was n't a realistic racing experience by any stretch of the imagination , but it was surprisingly satisfying when you ( for example ) hit the left or right buttons for exactly the right duration to aim your car exactly parallel to the straightaway barrier .
It had it 's own kind of precision that way -- different than the experience using a wheel or joystick , but just as worthwhile !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gamepads, or the "classic" controllers he's whining about, actually suck quite a lot.
They have terrible precision when compared to a mouse, don't work that well for things like Flight Sims when compared to a flightstick...You need to make a distinction between thumb-joystick controllers and actual "classic" (non-analog) controllers.
Regarding thumb joysticks, I agree with you: they're simply too small (and therefore too sensitive) to even begin to compete with a mouse/full-size joystick/whatever.
But classic D-pad controllers, on the other hand, are different.
Yes, they're not suited for flight sims in the same way a joystick is, in the sense of making smooth turns and such.
However, flying (or in my forthcoming example, racing) games designed for D-pads can have their own other sort of appeal.
Take F-Zero (and SNES racing game), for instance.
It wasn't a realistic racing experience by any stretch of the imagination, but it was surprisingly satisfying when you (for example) hit the left or right buttons for exactly the right duration to aim your car exactly parallel to the straightaway barrier.
It had it's own kind of precision that way -- different than the experience using a wheel or joystick, but just as worthwhile!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527647</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246373700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to agree with this.</p><p>Due to an accident I lost the upper phalanx of my left hand thumb when I was a kid.</p><p>However, I could play using the the NES and more importantly the SNES controllers without any trouble.</p><p>Present day controllers have these analog sticks which are positioned at the center of the controller, unfortunately it is not easy for me to play with them (I can, but need to make an effort to reach the stick).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to agree with this.Due to an accident I lost the upper phalanx of my left hand thumb when I was a kid.However , I could play using the the NES and more importantly the SNES controllers without any trouble.Present day controllers have these analog sticks which are positioned at the center of the controller , unfortunately it is not easy for me to play with them ( I can , but need to make an effort to reach the stick ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to agree with this.Due to an accident I lost the upper phalanx of my left hand thumb when I was a kid.However, I could play using the the NES and more importantly the SNES controllers without any trouble.Present day controllers have these analog sticks which are positioned at the center of the controller, unfortunately it is not easy for me to play with them (I can, but need to make an effort to reach the stick).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28534331</id>
	<title>Re:Button loss anxiety is justifialble.</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1246354440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The use of an analogy is to make a problem that is complex and hard to understand more simple.  Your analogies fail to draw a proper comparison.  They aren't even accurate because people still do make 2D games.  The other examples you use are just stupid.  Color TV is inherently better than black and white.  "Talkies" are inherently better than silent movies.  Is motion control inherently better than other ways of gaming?  No, it is different and both can exist in parallel (and have been for awhile).<br> <br>  We have had game gloves, eye toys, etc for years.  The Wii is the first that has made it the main controller.  But to think that the future is just Wii-mote and spasm games in front of the TV isn't realistic.  If anything, controllers might integrate some motion control in to the current controller (like six axis tried and failed to do well), but button-ful controllers are still going to have a place in gaming.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The use of an analogy is to make a problem that is complex and hard to understand more simple .
Your analogies fail to draw a proper comparison .
They are n't even accurate because people still do make 2D games .
The other examples you use are just stupid .
Color TV is inherently better than black and white .
" Talkies " are inherently better than silent movies .
Is motion control inherently better than other ways of gaming ?
No , it is different and both can exist in parallel ( and have been for awhile ) .
We have had game gloves , eye toys , etc for years .
The Wii is the first that has made it the main controller .
But to think that the future is just Wii-mote and spasm games in front of the TV is n't realistic .
If anything , controllers might integrate some motion control in to the current controller ( like six axis tried and failed to do well ) , but button-ful controllers are still going to have a place in gaming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The use of an analogy is to make a problem that is complex and hard to understand more simple.
Your analogies fail to draw a proper comparison.
They aren't even accurate because people still do make 2D games.
The other examples you use are just stupid.
Color TV is inherently better than black and white.
"Talkies" are inherently better than silent movies.
Is motion control inherently better than other ways of gaming?
No, it is different and both can exist in parallel (and have been for awhile).
We have had game gloves, eye toys, etc for years.
The Wii is the first that has made it the main controller.
But to think that the future is just Wii-mote and spasm games in front of the TV isn't realistic.
If anything, controllers might integrate some motion control in to the current controller (like six axis tried and failed to do well), but button-ful controllers are still going to have a place in gaming.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528279</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526869</id>
	<title>Better is relative</title>
	<author>brennanw</author>
	<datestamp>1246370100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>"Making something 'more accessible' doesn't necessarily make it <em>better</em>."</p></div></blockquote><p>Well... it does make it better for people who previously found it less accessible.</p><p>It's interesting, though, what you can acclimate yourself to. Back in the day, when I was a young buck, I had no trouble memorizing the completely keyboard-driven controls for PC games like the Ultimas I-V, and I found the simplified, mouse friendly interface of Ultima VI maddening. That said, despite my familiarity with not necessarily user-accessible controls, a console gaming controller renders me utterly helpless.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Making something 'more accessible ' does n't necessarily make it better. " Well.. .
it does make it better for people who previously found it less accessible.It 's interesting , though , what you can acclimate yourself to .
Back in the day , when I was a young buck , I had no trouble memorizing the completely keyboard-driven controls for PC games like the Ultimas I-V , and I found the simplified , mouse friendly interface of Ultima VI maddening .
That said , despite my familiarity with not necessarily user-accessible controls , a console gaming controller renders me utterly helpless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Making something 'more accessible' doesn't necessarily make it better."Well...
it does make it better for people who previously found it less accessible.It's interesting, though, what you can acclimate yourself to.
Back in the day, when I was a young buck, I had no trouble memorizing the completely keyboard-driven controls for PC games like the Ultimas I-V, and I found the simplified, mouse friendly interface of Ultima VI maddening.
That said, despite my familiarity with not necessarily user-accessible controls, a console gaming controller renders me utterly helpless.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528087</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>mrchaotica</author>
	<datestamp>1246375800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having owned both consoles back in the day (actually, I still do own them, come to think of it...), I have to say that the SNES controller was superior to the Genesis one. First, it managed to be just as ergonomic to hold even though its roundness was considerably less prominent -- it's a tie in that regard. Second, and more importantly, the SNES controller had both more buttons and had them in a better layout. The Genesis's A-B-C arranged linearly meant it was hard to hit A then C (or vice-versa) in quick succession, while the SNES's A,B,X,Y arranged in a diamond meant the button you needed was always right next to the one your thumb was on. Plus, the SNES controller had the L and R "triggers" (though they weren't analog back then).</p><p>Personally, I think the SNES controller is the best design of the pre-thumb-joystick era, or perhaps even the best <em>ever</em> (especially since I'm not all that into thumb joysticks). Maybe that's rose-colored glasses, but I don't believe so. Runners up include the Sony Dual Shock (PS/PS2/PS3) and the Wii Remote (for the "thumb joystick era" and "new HCI gimmick" categories, respectively).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having owned both consoles back in the day ( actually , I still do own them , come to think of it... ) , I have to say that the SNES controller was superior to the Genesis one .
First , it managed to be just as ergonomic to hold even though its roundness was considerably less prominent -- it 's a tie in that regard .
Second , and more importantly , the SNES controller had both more buttons and had them in a better layout .
The Genesis 's A-B-C arranged linearly meant it was hard to hit A then C ( or vice-versa ) in quick succession , while the SNES 's A,B,X,Y arranged in a diamond meant the button you needed was always right next to the one your thumb was on .
Plus , the SNES controller had the L and R " triggers " ( though they were n't analog back then ) .Personally , I think the SNES controller is the best design of the pre-thumb-joystick era , or perhaps even the best ever ( especially since I 'm not all that into thumb joysticks ) .
Maybe that 's rose-colored glasses , but I do n't believe so .
Runners up include the Sony Dual Shock ( PS/PS2/PS3 ) and the Wii Remote ( for the " thumb joystick era " and " new HCI gimmick " categories , respectively ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having owned both consoles back in the day (actually, I still do own them, come to think of it...), I have to say that the SNES controller was superior to the Genesis one.
First, it managed to be just as ergonomic to hold even though its roundness was considerably less prominent -- it's a tie in that regard.
Second, and more importantly, the SNES controller had both more buttons and had them in a better layout.
The Genesis's A-B-C arranged linearly meant it was hard to hit A then C (or vice-versa) in quick succession, while the SNES's A,B,X,Y arranged in a diamond meant the button you needed was always right next to the one your thumb was on.
Plus, the SNES controller had the L and R "triggers" (though they weren't analog back then).Personally, I think the SNES controller is the best design of the pre-thumb-joystick era, or perhaps even the best ever (especially since I'm not all that into thumb joysticks).
Maybe that's rose-colored glasses, but I don't believe so.
Runners up include the Sony Dual Shock (PS/PS2/PS3) and the Wii Remote (for the "thumb joystick era" and "new HCI gimmick" categories, respectively).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527361</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528613</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>hairyfeet</author>
	<datestamp>1246377780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bah! Classic six button Sega Genesis was the best! You wimpy Mario boys could only wish to play SF2 Turbo with the Sega controller! Boy those were the days, with endless arguments over blast processing VS Mode 7. I went back to being a full time PC gamer when it was obvious they were going to overload the games and controls with buttons, which they did. It just ain't as fun to me when you have to keep up with huge lists of moves like with the newer Madden games.</p><p>

So I will stick with my nice PC FPS, where the controls are the same no matter who makes the game and I can concentrate on blasting bad guys instead of memorizing moves lists.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bah !
Classic six button Sega Genesis was the best !
You wimpy Mario boys could only wish to play SF2 Turbo with the Sega controller !
Boy those were the days , with endless arguments over blast processing VS Mode 7 .
I went back to being a full time PC gamer when it was obvious they were going to overload the games and controls with buttons , which they did .
It just ai n't as fun to me when you have to keep up with huge lists of moves like with the newer Madden games .
So I will stick with my nice PC FPS , where the controls are the same no matter who makes the game and I can concentrate on blasting bad guys instead of memorizing moves lists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bah!
Classic six button Sega Genesis was the best!
You wimpy Mario boys could only wish to play SF2 Turbo with the Sega controller!
Boy those were the days, with endless arguments over blast processing VS Mode 7.
I went back to being a full time PC gamer when it was obvious they were going to overload the games and controls with buttons, which they did.
It just ain't as fun to me when you have to keep up with huge lists of moves like with the newer Madden games.
So I will stick with my nice PC FPS, where the controls are the same no matter who makes the game and I can concentrate on blasting bad guys instead of memorizing moves lists.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28538469</id>
	<title>My Brute!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246381680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>UUDDLRLRBASelSta</p><p>For Real Ultimate Power, Can You Face Might?</p><p>http://rockhardest.mybrute.com</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>UUDDLRLRBASelStaFor Real Ultimate Power , Can You Face Might ? http : //rockhardest.mybrute.com</tokentext>
<sentencetext>UUDDLRLRBASelStaFor Real Ultimate Power, Can You Face Might?http://rockhardest.mybrute.com</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528177</id>
	<title>Re:Mouse and keyboard</title>
	<author>Fallingcow</author>
	<datestamp>1246376160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, I tagged the story "keyboardandmouse"</p><p>I recently picked up Armored Core 4 for the 360, and if I can't figure out a better way to map the buttons, I don't think I'll be playing much of it.</p><p>You've got auto-targetting (makes sense, you're in a high-tech mech thingy) but it gets knocked out all the damn time by one thing or another.  You're left trying to aim and fire <i>with the same finger</i> (right thumb).  If the the target is moving at all, you're pretty much fucked unless you get lucky.  Worse, I'm not sure there's a good way to fix the problem, since the trigger buttons are very important to movement and need to be available at all times.</p><p>This would be a non-issue with a keyboard+mouse on the PC, which is where a game this complex really, really needs to be.  It's got the opposite problem of the dumbed-down consolized games that end up on the PC so often recently--it's trying to be almost as complex as Mechwarrior 2 (maybe more so in it customization screens, which are also awkward with a controller) but it's just too much for the interface (360 controller) to comfortably handle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , I tagged the story " keyboardandmouse " I recently picked up Armored Core 4 for the 360 , and if I ca n't figure out a better way to map the buttons , I do n't think I 'll be playing much of it.You 've got auto-targetting ( makes sense , you 're in a high-tech mech thingy ) but it gets knocked out all the damn time by one thing or another .
You 're left trying to aim and fire with the same finger ( right thumb ) .
If the the target is moving at all , you 're pretty much fucked unless you get lucky .
Worse , I 'm not sure there 's a good way to fix the problem , since the trigger buttons are very important to movement and need to be available at all times.This would be a non-issue with a keyboard + mouse on the PC , which is where a game this complex really , really needs to be .
It 's got the opposite problem of the dumbed-down consolized games that end up on the PC so often recently--it 's trying to be almost as complex as Mechwarrior 2 ( maybe more so in it customization screens , which are also awkward with a controller ) but it 's just too much for the interface ( 360 controller ) to comfortably handle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, I tagged the story "keyboardandmouse"I recently picked up Armored Core 4 for the 360, and if I can't figure out a better way to map the buttons, I don't think I'll be playing much of it.You've got auto-targetting (makes sense, you're in a high-tech mech thingy) but it gets knocked out all the damn time by one thing or another.
You're left trying to aim and fire with the same finger (right thumb).
If the the target is moving at all, you're pretty much fucked unless you get lucky.
Worse, I'm not sure there's a good way to fix the problem, since the trigger buttons are very important to movement and need to be available at all times.This would be a non-issue with a keyboard+mouse on the PC, which is where a game this complex really, really needs to be.
It's got the opposite problem of the dumbed-down consolized games that end up on the PC so often recently--it's trying to be almost as complex as Mechwarrior 2 (maybe more so in it customization screens, which are also awkward with a controller) but it's just too much for the interface (360 controller) to comfortably handle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526745</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526919</id>
	<title>Bah; kinesophobia</title>
	<author>Millennium</author>
	<datestamp>1246370400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The alleged "greater precision" of button-mashers is imaginary; a side effect of someone afraid to learn a new skill. People said exactly the same thing about analog sticks, and D-pads before them, and both times they were wrong. They are wrong again.</p><p>As for gratuitous complexity, which the author (like many others) have mistaken for "depth," <em>this is a harmful thing</em>. It has driven far more people away from gaming than it ever attracted, creating shallow and unrewarding experiences for most with very little actual gain in game quality: a childish domination fantasy, nothing more. This is just someone who wants to keep people out of gaming, and like other kinesophobes he deserves exactly two options: take the plunge or don't play. His attitude is harmful to the industry and ultimately, it's unhealthy to himself. He doesn't need more games; he needs professional help.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The alleged " greater precision " of button-mashers is imaginary ; a side effect of someone afraid to learn a new skill .
People said exactly the same thing about analog sticks , and D-pads before them , and both times they were wrong .
They are wrong again.As for gratuitous complexity , which the author ( like many others ) have mistaken for " depth , " this is a harmful thing .
It has driven far more people away from gaming than it ever attracted , creating shallow and unrewarding experiences for most with very little actual gain in game quality : a childish domination fantasy , nothing more .
This is just someone who wants to keep people out of gaming , and like other kinesophobes he deserves exactly two options : take the plunge or do n't play .
His attitude is harmful to the industry and ultimately , it 's unhealthy to himself .
He does n't need more games ; he needs professional help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The alleged "greater precision" of button-mashers is imaginary; a side effect of someone afraid to learn a new skill.
People said exactly the same thing about analog sticks, and D-pads before them, and both times they were wrong.
They are wrong again.As for gratuitous complexity, which the author (like many others) have mistaken for "depth," this is a harmful thing.
It has driven far more people away from gaming than it ever attracted, creating shallow and unrewarding experiences for most with very little actual gain in game quality: a childish domination fantasy, nothing more.
This is just someone who wants to keep people out of gaming, and like other kinesophobes he deserves exactly two options: take the plunge or don't play.
His attitude is harmful to the industry and ultimately, it's unhealthy to himself.
He doesn't need more games; he needs professional help.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28529645</id>
	<title>reminds me of a classic mainstream vs connoisseur</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246381500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Michael Bay/Transformers vs. Pixar/Up</p><p>.</p><p>Enough said.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Michael Bay/Transformers vs. Pixar/Up.Enough said .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Michael Bay/Transformers vs. Pixar/Up.Enough said.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28534125</id>
	<title>Re:Best controller ever: Gamecube controller</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1246353600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think the Gamecube controller is probably my least favorite.  It was just strange...like Picasso designed it...things were just all over the place.  It was just too small and felt awkward to play with.  (Queue the "that's what she said" jokes)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the Gamecube controller is probably my least favorite .
It was just strange...like Picasso designed it...things were just all over the place .
It was just too small and felt awkward to play with .
( Queue the " that 's what she said " jokes )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the Gamecube controller is probably my least favorite.
It was just strange...like Picasso designed it...things were just all over the place.
It was just too small and felt awkward to play with.
(Queue the "that's what she said" jokes)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526841</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527699</id>
	<title>The problem isn't the controller.</title>
	<author>Delusion\_</author>
	<datestamp>1246373940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's the interface.  A controller is only half the story, and usually a lot less than that.</p><p>I'm not suggesting we go back to the Atari 2600/C64 era joystick, but it does have some lessons we should learn from.  Some of the best interface design comes from embracing the limitations in the format.  There were many C64 era games that, if they didn't use the keyboard at all, had to be somewhat creative on the control side.  Four directions, one button, make it happen.  Now, the trend seems to be that we need a discrete, separate button for every function a game has, and button combinations that are completely unobvious and arbitrary are a good thing.</p><p>As the Atari 2600 was my last console, after which I got on the 8-bit computer bandwagon, I say the following without any platform bias:  The Sega Genesis system had it right in the first generation:  stick and three buttons.  http://www.thosewerethedays.de/items/joysticks/sega\_genesis/fighter\_stick\_md-6\_asciiware.JPG is similar, but is the 6 button version.  I used this on the Amiga (which only supported one button, but very few games were programmed to use three, since the Atari and Sega joysticks had compatible connectors and pin layouts).  It had heft, it was accurate, it was solid.  With three buttons, you had to create a control mechanism, but you couldn't go down the road of arbitrary button hell.  That's what the modern console controller feels like to me:  hell, and inaccurate to boot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the interface .
A controller is only half the story , and usually a lot less than that.I 'm not suggesting we go back to the Atari 2600/C64 era joystick , but it does have some lessons we should learn from .
Some of the best interface design comes from embracing the limitations in the format .
There were many C64 era games that , if they did n't use the keyboard at all , had to be somewhat creative on the control side .
Four directions , one button , make it happen .
Now , the trend seems to be that we need a discrete , separate button for every function a game has , and button combinations that are completely unobvious and arbitrary are a good thing.As the Atari 2600 was my last console , after which I got on the 8-bit computer bandwagon , I say the following without any platform bias : The Sega Genesis system had it right in the first generation : stick and three buttons .
http : //www.thosewerethedays.de/items/joysticks/sega \ _genesis/fighter \ _stick \ _md-6 \ _asciiware.JPG is similar , but is the 6 button version .
I used this on the Amiga ( which only supported one button , but very few games were programmed to use three , since the Atari and Sega joysticks had compatible connectors and pin layouts ) .
It had heft , it was accurate , it was solid .
With three buttons , you had to create a control mechanism , but you could n't go down the road of arbitrary button hell .
That 's what the modern console controller feels like to me : hell , and inaccurate to boot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the interface.
A controller is only half the story, and usually a lot less than that.I'm not suggesting we go back to the Atari 2600/C64 era joystick, but it does have some lessons we should learn from.
Some of the best interface design comes from embracing the limitations in the format.
There were many C64 era games that, if they didn't use the keyboard at all, had to be somewhat creative on the control side.
Four directions, one button, make it happen.
Now, the trend seems to be that we need a discrete, separate button for every function a game has, and button combinations that are completely unobvious and arbitrary are a good thing.As the Atari 2600 was my last console, after which I got on the 8-bit computer bandwagon, I say the following without any platform bias:  The Sega Genesis system had it right in the first generation:  stick and three buttons.
http://www.thosewerethedays.de/items/joysticks/sega\_genesis/fighter\_stick\_md-6\_asciiware.JPG is similar, but is the 6 button version.
I used this on the Amiga (which only supported one button, but very few games were programmed to use three, since the Atari and Sega joysticks had compatible connectors and pin layouts).
It had heft, it was accurate, it was solid.
With three buttons, you had to create a control mechanism, but you couldn't go down the road of arbitrary button hell.
That's what the modern console controller feels like to me:  hell, and inaccurate to boot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528035</id>
	<title>Re:No, gamepads suck</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246375620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Gamepads, or the "classic" controllers he's whining about, actually suck quite a lot. They have terrible precision when compared to a mouse, don't work that well for things like Flight Sims when compared to a flightstick, and don't offer accessability over motion controls.</i></p><p>Gamepads suck for first person shooters and flight sims, obviously.  But mouse and keyboard sucks just as badly for 2d platformers, shmups, fighting games, etc.  Go play Sonic 2, Marvel vs. Capcom, Radiant Silvergun, Metal Slug, Double Dragon, etc. etc. and you'll be begging for a gamepad (or arcade stick<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gamepads , or the " classic " controllers he 's whining about , actually suck quite a lot .
They have terrible precision when compared to a mouse , do n't work that well for things like Flight Sims when compared to a flightstick , and do n't offer accessability over motion controls.Gamepads suck for first person shooters and flight sims , obviously .
But mouse and keyboard sucks just as badly for 2d platformers , shmups , fighting games , etc .
Go play Sonic 2 , Marvel vs. Capcom , Radiant Silvergun , Metal Slug , Double Dragon , etc .
etc. and you 'll be begging for a gamepad ( or arcade stick : ) ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gamepads, or the "classic" controllers he's whining about, actually suck quite a lot.
They have terrible precision when compared to a mouse, don't work that well for things like Flight Sims when compared to a flightstick, and don't offer accessability over motion controls.Gamepads suck for first person shooters and flight sims, obviously.
But mouse and keyboard sucks just as badly for 2d platformers, shmups, fighting games, etc.
Go play Sonic 2, Marvel vs. Capcom, Radiant Silvergun, Metal Slug, Double Dragon, etc.
etc. and you'll be begging for a gamepad (or arcade stick :)).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28533247</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>7Prime</author>
	<datestamp>1246393080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to agree with you, the GameCube button configuration is wonderful. Having different shapes for every button was a wonderful idea, it makes things much more immediate and intuitive than simply having identical buttons in different places. The big "A" was always primary functionality, the smaller "B" was secondary funcionality, and the X and Y were different auxillery functionality, but even they had their own unique feel. The Shoulder buttons were wonderful too. Sure the "Z" was kinda junky, but it was hardly ever used, and it was mostly used like a menu button or something.</p><p>However, different controllers excel in different areas. The GameCube has my favorite button configuration because of its tactile differentiation. However, the Playstation controller has the most precise D-pad. The XBox has the smoothest analog sticks (though I wish they were differentiated like on the GameCube), and their shoulder button setup is quite nice (though their naming is TERRIBLE... so often I think LT stands for "left top").</p><p>My perfect controller would have tactile differentiation (no matter how people bitch that it looks "kiddy"), would have a split "+" D-pad. The left analog stick would be concave (like an XBox 360 controller), and the right would be convex like a GameCube/PS controller. I think I would opt for an asymettrical shoulder button setup like the GameCube, except the "Z" button would be a lot more robust, probably similar to the RB button on the XBox 360. Asymmetry leads to faster tactile recall time, button 2 shoulder buttons on one side, and 1 on the other greatly speeds up your ability to remember which button does what. On modern day controllers under tight situations, that can be quite difficult. I see myself and see other people make a high percentage of button errors with modern controllers, because their brains can't dilliniate between similarly feeling or positioned buttons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to agree with you , the GameCube button configuration is wonderful .
Having different shapes for every button was a wonderful idea , it makes things much more immediate and intuitive than simply having identical buttons in different places .
The big " A " was always primary functionality , the smaller " B " was secondary funcionality , and the X and Y were different auxillery functionality , but even they had their own unique feel .
The Shoulder buttons were wonderful too .
Sure the " Z " was kinda junky , but it was hardly ever used , and it was mostly used like a menu button or something.However , different controllers excel in different areas .
The GameCube has my favorite button configuration because of its tactile differentiation .
However , the Playstation controller has the most precise D-pad .
The XBox has the smoothest analog sticks ( though I wish they were differentiated like on the GameCube ) , and their shoulder button setup is quite nice ( though their naming is TERRIBLE... so often I think LT stands for " left top " ) .My perfect controller would have tactile differentiation ( no matter how people bitch that it looks " kiddy " ) , would have a split " + " D-pad .
The left analog stick would be concave ( like an XBox 360 controller ) , and the right would be convex like a GameCube/PS controller .
I think I would opt for an asymettrical shoulder button setup like the GameCube , except the " Z " button would be a lot more robust , probably similar to the RB button on the XBox 360 .
Asymmetry leads to faster tactile recall time , button 2 shoulder buttons on one side , and 1 on the other greatly speeds up your ability to remember which button does what .
On modern day controllers under tight situations , that can be quite difficult .
I see myself and see other people make a high percentage of button errors with modern controllers , because their brains ca n't dilliniate between similarly feeling or positioned buttons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to agree with you, the GameCube button configuration is wonderful.
Having different shapes for every button was a wonderful idea, it makes things much more immediate and intuitive than simply having identical buttons in different places.
The big "A" was always primary functionality, the smaller "B" was secondary funcionality, and the X and Y were different auxillery functionality, but even they had their own unique feel.
The Shoulder buttons were wonderful too.
Sure the "Z" was kinda junky, but it was hardly ever used, and it was mostly used like a menu button or something.However, different controllers excel in different areas.
The GameCube has my favorite button configuration because of its tactile differentiation.
However, the Playstation controller has the most precise D-pad.
The XBox has the smoothest analog sticks (though I wish they were differentiated like on the GameCube), and their shoulder button setup is quite nice (though their naming is TERRIBLE... so often I think LT stands for "left top").My perfect controller would have tactile differentiation (no matter how people bitch that it looks "kiddy"), would have a split "+" D-pad.
The left analog stick would be concave (like an XBox 360 controller), and the right would be convex like a GameCube/PS controller.
I think I would opt for an asymettrical shoulder button setup like the GameCube, except the "Z" button would be a lot more robust, probably similar to the RB button on the XBox 360.
Asymmetry leads to faster tactile recall time, button 2 shoulder buttons on one side, and 1 on the other greatly speeds up your ability to remember which button does what.
On modern day controllers under tight situations, that can be quite difficult.
I see myself and see other people make a high percentage of button errors with modern controllers, because their brains can't dilliniate between similarly feeling or positioned buttons.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526847</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28534223</id>
	<title>Re:No, gamepads suck</title>
	<author>grumbel</author>
	<datestamp>1246354080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Gamepads suck for first person shooters and flight sims, obviously.</p></div><p>They actually work quite fine for flightsims, as todays controller have more then enough axis, precision and even enough buttons when you throw a chatpad into the mix, the only trouble is that you won't find a flightsim optimized for them. As the flightsim genre is pretty dead on PC and never existed for consoles in the first place.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gamepads suck for first person shooters and flight sims , obviously.They actually work quite fine for flightsims , as todays controller have more then enough axis , precision and even enough buttons when you throw a chatpad into the mix , the only trouble is that you wo n't find a flightsim optimized for them .
As the flightsim genre is pretty dead on PC and never existed for consoles in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gamepads suck for first person shooters and flight sims, obviously.They actually work quite fine for flightsims, as todays controller have more then enough axis, precision and even enough buttons when you throw a chatpad into the mix, the only trouble is that you won't find a flightsim optimized for them.
As the flightsim genre is pretty dead on PC and never existed for consoles in the first place.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528035</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527029</id>
	<title>And a shout out to...</title>
	<author>hotdiggity</author>
	<datestamp>1246371000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The original Atari 2600 joystick. Which, I believe, was also the de facto default joystick of the Commodore 64. One button. One stick. <p>

And did anyone else take it apart to press the "left" and "right" contact points simultaneously? Jiggling the joystick back and forth in the track events of <i>Summer Games</i> was for suckers. </p><p>

Good times.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The original Atari 2600 joystick .
Which , I believe , was also the de facto default joystick of the Commodore 64 .
One button .
One stick .
And did anyone else take it apart to press the " left " and " right " contact points simultaneously ?
Jiggling the joystick back and forth in the track events of Summer Games was for suckers .
Good times .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The original Atari 2600 joystick.
Which, I believe, was also the de facto default joystick of the Commodore 64.
One button.
One stick.
And did anyone else take it apart to press the "left" and "right" contact points simultaneously?
Jiggling the joystick back and forth in the track events of Summer Games was for suckers.
Good times.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527689</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246373940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Gamecube controller was great, especially if you're someone like me, who hasn't bothered to learn what the buttons are called on any controller past the MegaDrive. The D-Pad was a bit iffy (a little too stiff, and in completely the wrong place), but everything else was great - all the buttons were pretty responsive, and the button layout was brilliant. It had an incredibly obvious primary and secondary button, and you could feel which button your fingers were on by the shape alone. On-screen descriptions of which button to press worked better than any other controller, even for the X and Y buttons.</p><p>Quick-Time Events were pretty rare on Gamecube games, but at least you don't have to have memorized the names (or colours, or symbols) of every button. I actually can't play a lot of newer games, particularly on the PS3 (I can never remember which button's the square one, and which button's the circle) because they just don't give you enough time to look down at the pad to work out which button to press. Not to mention the nearly identical L1/R1 and L2/R2 button pairs, or the totally insane L3/R3 pair (which aren't even buttons).</p><p>The Wii remote + nunchunk actually makes a pretty decent controller for regular games too. You've got two buttons underneath your fingers at all times, another two in close range to your left index or middle finger, and a decent enough analog stick (although it's a bit slippery for my liking). OK, it's no GameCube controller, but I find it much more comfortable than a PS3 or Xbox 360 controller.</p><p>Oddly, I can only play Smash Bros. with a Gamecube controller, but I can only play Mario Kart with a Wii remote + nunchuck...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Gamecube controller was great , especially if you 're someone like me , who has n't bothered to learn what the buttons are called on any controller past the MegaDrive .
The D-Pad was a bit iffy ( a little too stiff , and in completely the wrong place ) , but everything else was great - all the buttons were pretty responsive , and the button layout was brilliant .
It had an incredibly obvious primary and secondary button , and you could feel which button your fingers were on by the shape alone .
On-screen descriptions of which button to press worked better than any other controller , even for the X and Y buttons.Quick-Time Events were pretty rare on Gamecube games , but at least you do n't have to have memorized the names ( or colours , or symbols ) of every button .
I actually ca n't play a lot of newer games , particularly on the PS3 ( I can never remember which button 's the square one , and which button 's the circle ) because they just do n't give you enough time to look down at the pad to work out which button to press .
Not to mention the nearly identical L1/R1 and L2/R2 button pairs , or the totally insane L3/R3 pair ( which are n't even buttons ) .The Wii remote + nunchunk actually makes a pretty decent controller for regular games too .
You 've got two buttons underneath your fingers at all times , another two in close range to your left index or middle finger , and a decent enough analog stick ( although it 's a bit slippery for my liking ) .
OK , it 's no GameCube controller , but I find it much more comfortable than a PS3 or Xbox 360 controller.Oddly , I can only play Smash Bros. with a Gamecube controller , but I can only play Mario Kart with a Wii remote + nunchuck.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Gamecube controller was great, especially if you're someone like me, who hasn't bothered to learn what the buttons are called on any controller past the MegaDrive.
The D-Pad was a bit iffy (a little too stiff, and in completely the wrong place), but everything else was great - all the buttons were pretty responsive, and the button layout was brilliant.
It had an incredibly obvious primary and secondary button, and you could feel which button your fingers were on by the shape alone.
On-screen descriptions of which button to press worked better than any other controller, even for the X and Y buttons.Quick-Time Events were pretty rare on Gamecube games, but at least you don't have to have memorized the names (or colours, or symbols) of every button.
I actually can't play a lot of newer games, particularly on the PS3 (I can never remember which button's the square one, and which button's the circle) because they just don't give you enough time to look down at the pad to work out which button to press.
Not to mention the nearly identical L1/R1 and L2/R2 button pairs, or the totally insane L3/R3 pair (which aren't even buttons).The Wii remote + nunchunk actually makes a pretty decent controller for regular games too.
You've got two buttons underneath your fingers at all times, another two in close range to your left index or middle finger, and a decent enough analog stick (although it's a bit slippery for my liking).
OK, it's no GameCube controller, but I find it much more comfortable than a PS3 or Xbox 360 controller.Oddly, I can only play Smash Bros. with a Gamecube controller, but I can only play Mario Kart with a Wii remote + nunchuck...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526847</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28532833</id>
	<title>Casual games just a new market</title>
	<author>rxan</author>
	<datestamp>1246391280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is room in the gaming market for both casual and hardcore players right now. It's probably not going to change anytime soon. The casual market is still being saturated, so there's plenty of room for growth. But that doesn't mean hardcore button gamers will be out of the loop. The game makers know that hardcore players simply buy more games on average than causal players. I would cite that but I can't remember the link I read it from.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is room in the gaming market for both casual and hardcore players right now .
It 's probably not going to change anytime soon .
The casual market is still being saturated , so there 's plenty of room for growth .
But that does n't mean hardcore button gamers will be out of the loop .
The game makers know that hardcore players simply buy more games on average than causal players .
I would cite that but I ca n't remember the link I read it from .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is room in the gaming market for both casual and hardcore players right now.
It's probably not going to change anytime soon.
The casual market is still being saturated, so there's plenty of room for growth.
But that doesn't mean hardcore button gamers will be out of the loop.
The game makers know that hardcore players simply buy more games on average than causal players.
I would cite that but I can't remember the link I read it from.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526839</id>
	<title>For short</title>
	<author>4D6963</author>
	<datestamp>1246369980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>For short : diversity is good, no one size fits all solution, to each his own, etc...</htmltext>
<tokenext>For short : diversity is good , no one size fits all solution , to each his own , etc.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For short : diversity is good, no one size fits all solution, to each his own, etc...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28538607</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246383420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed 100\%, the Sega Saturn pad (2nd revision in NA) is without a doubt the best gamepad ever designed and still is.</p><p>I even bought an adaptor so I could use it on my pc to play Space Taxi 2, MAME, etc...</p><p>And all the Genesis pads rank right behind it, the 'slim' 6 button (I think released with the Genesis 3), then the wireless 6 button, then the Official wired 6 button, and finally the original 3 button.</p><p>Sega nailed these right back to the Master Sytem, the D-pad needed improvement, (and it could still do proper diagonals unlike the NES pad), which they nailed dead on later, but the tactile feel of it's fire buttons was literally a thing to behold.</p><p>PS: yeah, I was the 'Sega' kid...<br>PSS: any typos in this are solely the fault of the incredibly bad OLPC keyboard and vodka.<br>PSSS: just in case you could'nt infer, I am also a fan of the Dreamcast controllers... Sega is just really good at D-pads...<br>PSSSS: I should really get out more often...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed 100 \ % , the Sega Saturn pad ( 2nd revision in NA ) is without a doubt the best gamepad ever designed and still is.I even bought an adaptor so I could use it on my pc to play Space Taxi 2 , MAME , etc...And all the Genesis pads rank right behind it , the 'slim ' 6 button ( I think released with the Genesis 3 ) , then the wireless 6 button , then the Official wired 6 button , and finally the original 3 button.Sega nailed these right back to the Master Sytem , the D-pad needed improvement , ( and it could still do proper diagonals unlike the NES pad ) , which they nailed dead on later , but the tactile feel of it 's fire buttons was literally a thing to behold.PS : yeah , I was the 'Sega ' kid...PSS : any typos in this are solely the fault of the incredibly bad OLPC keyboard and vodka.PSSS : just in case you could'nt infer , I am also a fan of the Dreamcast controllers... Sega is just really good at D-pads...PSSSS : I should really get out more often.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed 100\%, the Sega Saturn pad (2nd revision in NA) is without a doubt the best gamepad ever designed and still is.I even bought an adaptor so I could use it on my pc to play Space Taxi 2, MAME, etc...And all the Genesis pads rank right behind it, the 'slim' 6 button (I think released with the Genesis 3), then the wireless 6 button, then the Official wired 6 button, and finally the original 3 button.Sega nailed these right back to the Master Sytem, the D-pad needed improvement, (and it could still do proper diagonals unlike the NES pad), which they nailed dead on later, but the tactile feel of it's fire buttons was literally a thing to behold.PS: yeah, I was the 'Sega' kid...PSS: any typos in this are solely the fault of the incredibly bad OLPC keyboard and vodka.PSSS: just in case you could'nt infer, I am also a fan of the Dreamcast controllers... Sega is just really good at D-pads...PSSSS: I should really get out more often...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527455</id>
	<title>No "Perfect" Controller</title>
	<author>Blixinator</author>
	<datestamp>1246372860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Honestly, I've never had a controller that I couldn't get into. Controllers may differ greatly from one system to the next, but it's rather easy to get acustomed to the feel of it. You can even find your own ways of using it. My friend thought I was nuts when he saw me holding the N64 controller by the right and the middle protrusions for certain parts of games, but that was the easiest way for me at the time and it worked. I don't think there has ever been or will there ever be a "perfect" controller because each one can be adapted to.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Honestly , I 've never had a controller that I could n't get into .
Controllers may differ greatly from one system to the next , but it 's rather easy to get acustomed to the feel of it .
You can even find your own ways of using it .
My friend thought I was nuts when he saw me holding the N64 controller by the right and the middle protrusions for certain parts of games , but that was the easiest way for me at the time and it worked .
I do n't think there has ever been or will there ever be a " perfect " controller because each one can be adapted to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honestly, I've never had a controller that I couldn't get into.
Controllers may differ greatly from one system to the next, but it's rather easy to get acustomed to the feel of it.
You can even find your own ways of using it.
My friend thought I was nuts when he saw me holding the N64 controller by the right and the middle protrusions for certain parts of games, but that was the easiest way for me at the time and it worked.
I don't think there has ever been or will there ever be a "perfect" controller because each one can be adapted to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28529153</id>
	<title>Re:Best controller, you ask?</title>
	<author>KDR\_11k</author>
	<datestamp>1246379880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like the classic controller except for the lack of handles. Some games use the analog sticks (e.g. Majora's Mask) and you really need handles to counteract the greater force necessary to move those sticks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like the classic controller except for the lack of handles .
Some games use the analog sticks ( e.g .
Majora 's Mask ) and you really need handles to counteract the greater force necessary to move those sticks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like the classic controller except for the lack of handles.
Some games use the analog sticks (e.g.
Majora's Mask) and you really need handles to counteract the greater force necessary to move those sticks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526841</id>
	<title>Best controller ever: Gamecube controller</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246369980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The gamecube controller is the best ever, imo.</p><p>The stick is in the upper left and not in the odd uncomfortable position of the dual shock stick.</p><p>The right button placement is great.  Large A button in the middle.  Small B button to the left.  X is above the A and Y is to the right of the A.  The buttons all have different shapes so you can feel what button your thumb is on without having to look.</p><p>And of course, the *epic* analog shoulder buttons.  The buttons have a huge range of motion; I'm pretty sure they depress over half an inch, and they 'lock' at the bottom.  I've never seen another controller with such awesome analog buttons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The gamecube controller is the best ever , imo.The stick is in the upper left and not in the odd uncomfortable position of the dual shock stick.The right button placement is great .
Large A button in the middle .
Small B button to the left .
X is above the A and Y is to the right of the A. The buttons all have different shapes so you can feel what button your thumb is on without having to look.And of course , the * epic * analog shoulder buttons .
The buttons have a huge range of motion ; I 'm pretty sure they depress over half an inch , and they 'lock ' at the bottom .
I 've never seen another controller with such awesome analog buttons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The gamecube controller is the best ever, imo.The stick is in the upper left and not in the odd uncomfortable position of the dual shock stick.The right button placement is great.
Large A button in the middle.
Small B button to the left.
X is above the A and Y is to the right of the A.  The buttons all have different shapes so you can feel what button your thumb is on without having to look.And of course, the *epic* analog shoulder buttons.
The buttons have a huge range of motion; I'm pretty sure they depress over half an inch, and they 'lock' at the bottom.
I've never seen another controller with such awesome analog buttons.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527431</id>
	<title>I think it is incredibly short-sighted</title>
	<author>holychicken</author>
	<datestamp>1246372800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>to not only not see the end of button controllers coming soon, but to see that as a bad thing.<br> <br>
Unless something drastic happens that makes us believe that we can't control games well with natural human movements, the controller is going to die.<br> <br>
Games are just so much more fun for so many more people when the input is intuitive rather than requiring you to learn what every buttons does.  For those of us who grew up doing so AND kept practicing, it is not so hard, but for most people that is not true.  And even for those of us who can do it, I wouldn't believe you if you said that you didn't find picking up the Wii controller "refreshing" the first time you did so.</htmltext>
<tokenext>to not only not see the end of button controllers coming soon , but to see that as a bad thing .
Unless something drastic happens that makes us believe that we ca n't control games well with natural human movements , the controller is going to die .
Games are just so much more fun for so many more people when the input is intuitive rather than requiring you to learn what every buttons does .
For those of us who grew up doing so AND kept practicing , it is not so hard , but for most people that is not true .
And even for those of us who can do it , I would n't believe you if you said that you did n't find picking up the Wii controller " refreshing " the first time you did so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to not only not see the end of button controllers coming soon, but to see that as a bad thing.
Unless something drastic happens that makes us believe that we can't control games well with natural human movements, the controller is going to die.
Games are just so much more fun for so many more people when the input is intuitive rather than requiring you to learn what every buttons does.
For those of us who grew up doing so AND kept practicing, it is not so hard, but for most people that is not true.
And even for those of us who can do it, I wouldn't believe you if you said that you didn't find picking up the Wii controller "refreshing" the first time you did so.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28534021</id>
	<title>Re:Best controller, you ask?</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1246353240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder if I am the only one in here that thinks the 360 controller is great.  It fits comfortably to where I never have had a cramp or pain after extended play, it has analog sticks in the right place, and plenty of buttons that are all intuitive and easy to reach.  Plus, I like that it is wireless and has the ability to shut down itself and the console.  Really, they did a fantastic job with it.  If there was a standard controller for all consoles, I'd much rather it be the 360's than any previous gen consoles or a Wii-mote.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if I am the only one in here that thinks the 360 controller is great .
It fits comfortably to where I never have had a cramp or pain after extended play , it has analog sticks in the right place , and plenty of buttons that are all intuitive and easy to reach .
Plus , I like that it is wireless and has the ability to shut down itself and the console .
Really , they did a fantastic job with it .
If there was a standard controller for all consoles , I 'd much rather it be the 360 's than any previous gen consoles or a Wii-mote .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if I am the only one in here that thinks the 360 controller is great.
It fits comfortably to where I never have had a cramp or pain after extended play, it has analog sticks in the right place, and plenty of buttons that are all intuitive and easy to reach.
Plus, I like that it is wireless and has the ability to shut down itself and the console.
Really, they did a fantastic job with it.
If there was a standard controller for all consoles, I'd much rather it be the 360's than any previous gen consoles or a Wii-mote.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527767</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>thedonger</author>
	<datestamp>1246374360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't forget about the "super action controller" for the Colecovision. It was the pistol grip-style, four buttons on the grip, a joystick, a dial-like thingy, and a keypad. Hell, I bet you could play Guitar Hero with it...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget about the " super action controller " for the Colecovision .
It was the pistol grip-style , four buttons on the grip , a joystick , a dial-like thingy , and a keypad .
Hell , I bet you could play Guitar Hero with it.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget about the "super action controller" for the Colecovision.
It was the pistol grip-style, four buttons on the grip, a joystick, a dial-like thingy, and a keypad.
Hell, I bet you could play Guitar Hero with it...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28529111</id>
	<title>Re:Mouse and keyboard</title>
	<author>KDR\_11k</author>
	<datestamp>1246379700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No real problem with the Wiimote, at least not moreso than with KB+mouse (I'm not a big headshotter, I prefer slamming rockets exactly into the pieces of the scenery the enemy will be next to when they hit and I find the realistic gun games where enemies can take half a clip unless you hit their head tedious). Works fine with the DS as well. Granted, these aren't what people call traditional controllers but they're console controllers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No real problem with the Wiimote , at least not moreso than with KB + mouse ( I 'm not a big headshotter , I prefer slamming rockets exactly into the pieces of the scenery the enemy will be next to when they hit and I find the realistic gun games where enemies can take half a clip unless you hit their head tedious ) .
Works fine with the DS as well .
Granted , these are n't what people call traditional controllers but they 're console controllers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No real problem with the Wiimote, at least not moreso than with KB+mouse (I'm not a big headshotter, I prefer slamming rockets exactly into the pieces of the scenery the enemy will be next to when they hit and I find the realistic gun games where enemies can take half a clip unless you hit their head tedious).
Works fine with the DS as well.
Granted, these aren't what people call traditional controllers but they're console controllers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526745</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28529733</id>
	<title>What will players 2, 3, and 4 stick with?</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1246381800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>For most non-simulator games, I'd stick with mouse and keyboard any day!</p></div><p>Then what will players 2, 3, and 4 stick with? Yelling at you to finish playing already so that they can have a turn? That's why the kids I babysit prefer my Wii game console over my PC.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>For most non-simulator games , I 'd stick with mouse and keyboard any day ! Then what will players 2 , 3 , and 4 stick with ?
Yelling at you to finish playing already so that they can have a turn ?
That 's why the kids I babysit prefer my Wii game console over my PC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For most non-simulator games, I'd stick with mouse and keyboard any day!Then what will players 2, 3, and 4 stick with?
Yelling at you to finish playing already so that they can have a turn?
That's why the kids I babysit prefer my Wii game console over my PC.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526745</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28532273</id>
	<title>Re:Button loss anxiety is justifialble.</title>
	<author>Ironchew</author>
	<datestamp>1246389300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We still have 2D interfaces and 2D display outputs.  3D games are enormously more complex to make than 2D games.  Until these things change, 2D games (in some form or another) aren't going anywhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We still have 2D interfaces and 2D display outputs .
3D games are enormously more complex to make than 2D games .
Until these things change , 2D games ( in some form or another ) are n't going anywhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We still have 2D interfaces and 2D display outputs.
3D games are enormously more complex to make than 2D games.
Until these things change, 2D games (in some form or another) aren't going anywhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528279</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527865</id>
	<title>Re:Bah; kinesophobia</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246374840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The alleged "greater precision" of button-mashers is imaginary; a side effect of someone afraid to learn a new skill. People said exactly the same thing about analog sticks, and D-pads before them, and both times they were wrong.</i></p><p>No, they had a point.  Some games just don't fit with analog sticks.  I know I can't play shmups with an analog stick, and it's not for lack of trying.  A d-pan is better but the precise click of a good arcade joystick is superior for many types of games.  Analog sticks have their places (3d platformers, flight sims, etc) but they don't replace the arcade joystick by any means.</p><p>For the most obvious example, try playing Pacman with your playstation controller and an arcade stick. The superiority of the arcade stick (in that contest) is obvious.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The alleged " greater precision " of button-mashers is imaginary ; a side effect of someone afraid to learn a new skill .
People said exactly the same thing about analog sticks , and D-pads before them , and both times they were wrong.No , they had a point .
Some games just do n't fit with analog sticks .
I know I ca n't play shmups with an analog stick , and it 's not for lack of trying .
A d-pan is better but the precise click of a good arcade joystick is superior for many types of games .
Analog sticks have their places ( 3d platformers , flight sims , etc ) but they do n't replace the arcade joystick by any means.For the most obvious example , try playing Pacman with your playstation controller and an arcade stick .
The superiority of the arcade stick ( in that contest ) is obvious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The alleged "greater precision" of button-mashers is imaginary; a side effect of someone afraid to learn a new skill.
People said exactly the same thing about analog sticks, and D-pads before them, and both times they were wrong.No, they had a point.
Some games just don't fit with analog sticks.
I know I can't play shmups with an analog stick, and it's not for lack of trying.
A d-pan is better but the precise click of a good arcade joystick is superior for many types of games.
Analog sticks have their places (3d platformers, flight sims, etc) but they don't replace the arcade joystick by any means.For the most obvious example, try playing Pacman with your playstation controller and an arcade stick.
The superiority of the arcade stick (in that contest) is obvious.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528075</id>
	<title>GamePads don't suck - you do?</title>
	<author>Laebshade</author>
	<datestamp>1246375740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Like any tool, the more you use, the better you get at using it.  I too had your same skepticism when it came to playing console FPSers after playing computer FPSers for so long.  It takes a while, but after a few months, you get good at using the analog sticks to aim. Really good.  Then you realize you have a lot more fun playing on your couch, reclined, with one controller in hand than you ever did sitting at your computer, back straight, staring at the comparatively tiny screen, using a few keys on one instruments to move around while the other controls your Z axis and firing.  You're stuck to that computer.  If I'm playing Call of Duty on my couch, and I want to switch to the other couch, or recline on my couch, lay down on my couch, or use my recliner, I can.  I can stand while playing.  My once gamer PC now sits in my room; I've since ditched windows on it in favor of Ubuntu, but I still only use it a few times a week.  Most of my time is spent in my living room on my Xbox or using my MPC.  But I do agree with you on one point:  RTS on a console just doesn't work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Like any tool , the more you use , the better you get at using it .
I too had your same skepticism when it came to playing console FPSers after playing computer FPSers for so long .
It takes a while , but after a few months , you get good at using the analog sticks to aim .
Really good .
Then you realize you have a lot more fun playing on your couch , reclined , with one controller in hand than you ever did sitting at your computer , back straight , staring at the comparatively tiny screen , using a few keys on one instruments to move around while the other controls your Z axis and firing .
You 're stuck to that computer .
If I 'm playing Call of Duty on my couch , and I want to switch to the other couch , or recline on my couch , lay down on my couch , or use my recliner , I can .
I can stand while playing .
My once gamer PC now sits in my room ; I 've since ditched windows on it in favor of Ubuntu , but I still only use it a few times a week .
Most of my time is spent in my living room on my Xbox or using my MPC .
But I do agree with you on one point : RTS on a console just does n't work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Like any tool, the more you use, the better you get at using it.
I too had your same skepticism when it came to playing console FPSers after playing computer FPSers for so long.
It takes a while, but after a few months, you get good at using the analog sticks to aim.
Really good.
Then you realize you have a lot more fun playing on your couch, reclined, with one controller in hand than you ever did sitting at your computer, back straight, staring at the comparatively tiny screen, using a few keys on one instruments to move around while the other controls your Z axis and firing.
You're stuck to that computer.
If I'm playing Call of Duty on my couch, and I want to switch to the other couch, or recline on my couch, lay down on my couch, or use my recliner, I can.
I can stand while playing.
My once gamer PC now sits in my room; I've since ditched windows on it in favor of Ubuntu, but I still only use it a few times a week.
Most of my time is spent in my living room on my Xbox or using my MPC.
But I do agree with you on one point:  RTS on a console just doesn't work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526847</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>Mushdot</author>
	<datestamp>1246369980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It was the SNES controller that sprang to my mind before seeing your comment. That and I think the Gamecube controller are probably the best ones. I find that the PS/Xbox controllers always make my hands ache after playing for a while and I can never use them as instinctively as the Nintendo pads.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It was the SNES controller that sprang to my mind before seeing your comment .
That and I think the Gamecube controller are probably the best ones .
I find that the PS/Xbox controllers always make my hands ache after playing for a while and I can never use them as instinctively as the Nintendo pads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was the SNES controller that sprang to my mind before seeing your comment.
That and I think the Gamecube controller are probably the best ones.
I find that the PS/Xbox controllers always make my hands ache after playing for a while and I can never use them as instinctively as the Nintendo pads.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528595</id>
	<title>Watch a kid play Mario for the first time...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246377780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I remember laughing watching my friends and sister play Super Mario for NES for the first time. Every time they wanted to jump, they'd press A and pull up on the entire controller. Like they were trying to use motion controls when they weren't even part of the game! I understand that buttons will never go away, but motion controls can provide some nice additions to gaming.
<br> <br>
I swear that Mario jumped farther when you flailed about madly when he was in the air. (at least my 5-year old mind thought so) When I first played Super Paper Mario for the Wii, and you used motion controls to combo hits on enemies, I laughed out loud. I remembered my first experience with Mario and how it had all come full circle.
<br> <br>
It's not that motion controls are better, that isn't my argument. They're just much more intuitive.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember laughing watching my friends and sister play Super Mario for NES for the first time .
Every time they wanted to jump , they 'd press A and pull up on the entire controller .
Like they were trying to use motion controls when they were n't even part of the game !
I understand that buttons will never go away , but motion controls can provide some nice additions to gaming .
I swear that Mario jumped farther when you flailed about madly when he was in the air .
( at least my 5-year old mind thought so ) When I first played Super Paper Mario for the Wii , and you used motion controls to combo hits on enemies , I laughed out loud .
I remembered my first experience with Mario and how it had all come full circle .
It 's not that motion controls are better , that is n't my argument .
They 're just much more intuitive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember laughing watching my friends and sister play Super Mario for NES for the first time.
Every time they wanted to jump, they'd press A and pull up on the entire controller.
Like they were trying to use motion controls when they weren't even part of the game!
I understand that buttons will never go away, but motion controls can provide some nice additions to gaming.
I swear that Mario jumped farther when you flailed about madly when he was in the air.
(at least my 5-year old mind thought so) When I first played Super Paper Mario for the Wii, and you used motion controls to combo hits on enemies, I laughed out loud.
I remembered my first experience with Mario and how it had all come full circle.
It's not that motion controls are better, that isn't my argument.
They're just much more intuitive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527673</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246373880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you used a Saturn pad? 6 buttons on the face, 2 shoulders, a great d-pad, and really crisp response.  It's particularly loved for fighting games, where 4 face buttons just aren't enough. It's actually in such demand that Sega released a new USB version.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you used a Saturn pad ?
6 buttons on the face , 2 shoulders , a great d-pad , and really crisp response .
It 's particularly loved for fighting games , where 4 face buttons just are n't enough .
It 's actually in such demand that Sega released a new USB version .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you used a Saturn pad?
6 buttons on the face, 2 shoulders, a great d-pad, and really crisp response.
It's particularly loved for fighting games, where 4 face buttons just aren't enough.
It's actually in such demand that Sega released a new USB version.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528155</id>
	<title>Re:No, gamepads suck</title>
	<author>Fumus</author>
	<datestamp>1246376100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Try playing a fighting game with a keyboard and mouse. As much as I like that combo for shooters, I cannot imagine playing a game like Devil May Cry 4 or even Prototype without a gamepad. The xbox360 one is rather clumsy and doesn't fit my hands, so maybe try some other ones if that's the only one you tried? My Thrustmaster Dual Trigger 3-in-1 is stunning compared to how the xbox one feels.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Try playing a fighting game with a keyboard and mouse .
As much as I like that combo for shooters , I can not imagine playing a game like Devil May Cry 4 or even Prototype without a gamepad .
The xbox360 one is rather clumsy and does n't fit my hands , so maybe try some other ones if that 's the only one you tried ?
My Thrustmaster Dual Trigger 3-in-1 is stunning compared to how the xbox one feels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try playing a fighting game with a keyboard and mouse.
As much as I like that combo for shooters, I cannot imagine playing a game like Devil May Cry 4 or even Prototype without a gamepad.
The xbox360 one is rather clumsy and doesn't fit my hands, so maybe try some other ones if that's the only one you tried?
My Thrustmaster Dual Trigger 3-in-1 is stunning compared to how the xbox one feels.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28529961</id>
	<title>Press X. Which button is that? They're *all* X.</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1246382520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>To this day, I think of the buttons on my PlayStation or XBOX in terms of the SNES layout.  "Hit the <b>Y</b> button!  I mean the <em>Square</em> one!"</p></div><p>Some of my friends have played games on PlayStation, Xbox, GameCube, and Super NES. The X button is in a different place on every controller. In fact, <a href="http://pineight.com/donate/progress/11.html" title="pineight.com">it has shown up in <em>all four</em> positions</a> [pineight.com]. So when I tell them what button to hit, and it's not the one on the bottom, I tend to say triangle, square, or O because they're less ambiguous than A, B, and Y.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>To this day , I think of the buttons on my PlayStation or XBOX in terms of the SNES layout .
" Hit the Y button !
I mean the Square one !
" Some of my friends have played games on PlayStation , Xbox , GameCube , and Super NES .
The X button is in a different place on every controller .
In fact , it has shown up in all four positions [ pineight.com ] .
So when I tell them what button to hit , and it 's not the one on the bottom , I tend to say triangle , square , or O because they 're less ambiguous than A , B , and Y .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To this day, I think of the buttons on my PlayStation or XBOX in terms of the SNES layout.
"Hit the Y button!
I mean the Square one!
"Some of my friends have played games on PlayStation, Xbox, GameCube, and Super NES.
The X button is in a different place on every controller.
In fact, it has shown up in all four positions [pineight.com].
So when I tell them what button to hit, and it's not the one on the bottom, I tend to say triangle, square, or O because they're less ambiguous than A, B, and Y.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28540585</id>
	<title>Re:sigh</title>
	<author>Waccoon</author>
	<datestamp>1246452300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Everyone isn't going to just up and abandon all of that investment and knowledge just because something new has appeared.</p></div><p>Yes, they will, because that is the "old", and that doesn't sell, anymore.  The "new" is the only thing that needs to be included with the machine.  Of course, the "old" will always be available separately as a mandatory option, along with the <i>new</i> new which is what the new should have been in the first place (like MotionPlus).</p><p>I'll never understand why just because a controller has 12 buttons means every single one needs to be used in a game, strengthening the whole argument that games are too complicated.  That probably follows the same logic where you can only choose a limited set of control layout for almost all console games, rather than doing things the PC way by mapping a button to whatever function you want.  It's all image and marketing (with a dash of stupidity and a whole lot of arrogance).</p><p>I love console games, but really... I don't need to be forced to use a gimped controller for my own good.  Some companies make a huge business out of forcing people to use gimped controls because "that's all you need".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone is n't going to just up and abandon all of that investment and knowledge just because something new has appeared.Yes , they will , because that is the " old " , and that does n't sell , anymore .
The " new " is the only thing that needs to be included with the machine .
Of course , the " old " will always be available separately as a mandatory option , along with the new new which is what the new should have been in the first place ( like MotionPlus ) .I 'll never understand why just because a controller has 12 buttons means every single one needs to be used in a game , strengthening the whole argument that games are too complicated .
That probably follows the same logic where you can only choose a limited set of control layout for almost all console games , rather than doing things the PC way by mapping a button to whatever function you want .
It 's all image and marketing ( with a dash of stupidity and a whole lot of arrogance ) .I love console games , but really... I do n't need to be forced to use a gimped controller for my own good .
Some companies make a huge business out of forcing people to use gimped controls because " that 's all you need " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone isn't going to just up and abandon all of that investment and knowledge just because something new has appeared.Yes, they will, because that is the "old", and that doesn't sell, anymore.
The "new" is the only thing that needs to be included with the machine.
Of course, the "old" will always be available separately as a mandatory option, along with the new new which is what the new should have been in the first place (like MotionPlus).I'll never understand why just because a controller has 12 buttons means every single one needs to be used in a game, strengthening the whole argument that games are too complicated.
That probably follows the same logic where you can only choose a limited set of control layout for almost all console games, rather than doing things the PC way by mapping a button to whatever function you want.
It's all image and marketing (with a dash of stupidity and a whole lot of arrogance).I love console games, but really... I don't need to be forced to use a gimped controller for my own good.
Some companies make a huge business out of forcing people to use gimped controls because "that's all you need".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526729</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528131</id>
	<title>I agree, however</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1246376040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can see one with a built in motion pointer like the Wii. That's would be kick ass.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can see one with a built in motion pointer like the Wii .
That 's would be kick ass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can see one with a built in motion pointer like the Wii.
That's would be kick ass.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526837</id>
	<title>I said that</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246369980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Making something 'more accessible' doesn't necessarily make it better.</p></div><p>I said that when they paved over paradise and put up a parking lot.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Making something 'more accessible ' does n't necessarily make it better.I said that when they paved over paradise and put up a parking lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Making something 'more accessible' doesn't necessarily make it better.I said that when they paved over paradise and put up a parking lot.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528831</id>
	<title>Re:Mouse and keyboard</title>
	<author>sznupi</author>
	<datestamp>1246378680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just because joypad isn't good for mecha game, doesn't make keyboard + mouse that much better...</p><p>Behold the perfection: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel\_Battalion" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel\_Battalion</a> [wikipedia.org] (the only downside of that game was Xbox 1...) There was also a bit less extreme dual joystick for PS1.</p><p>PS. And pleeeease, cut out the "console games are dumbing our games" crap, you elitist #$\%&amp;. Those games you are mumbling about are <b>hybrids</b>, aiming for middle ground (it's "sensible" since the times MS made developing for consoles very close to developing for Win...), missing out the strenghts of <b>BOTH</b> types of platform; not good also on consoles from the point of view of older gamers (that's what we get for games becoming mainstream...but OTOH we still have more than enough of the more "hardcore" ones)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just because joypad is n't good for mecha game , does n't make keyboard + mouse that much better...Behold the perfection : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel \ _Battalion [ wikipedia.org ] ( the only downside of that game was Xbox 1... ) There was also a bit less extreme dual joystick for PS1.PS .
And pleeeease , cut out the " console games are dumbing our games " crap , you elitist # $ \ % &amp; .
Those games you are mumbling about are hybrids , aiming for middle ground ( it 's " sensible " since the times MS made developing for consoles very close to developing for Win... ) , missing out the strenghts of BOTH types of platform ; not good also on consoles from the point of view of older gamers ( that 's what we get for games becoming mainstream...but OTOH we still have more than enough of the more " hardcore " ones )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just because joypad isn't good for mecha game, doesn't make keyboard + mouse that much better...Behold the perfection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel\_Battalion [wikipedia.org] (the only downside of that game was Xbox 1...) There was also a bit less extreme dual joystick for PS1.PS.
And pleeeease, cut out the "console games are dumbing our games" crap, you elitist #$\%&amp;.
Those games you are mumbling about are hybrids, aiming for middle ground (it's "sensible" since the times MS made developing for consoles very close to developing for Win...), missing out the strenghts of BOTH types of platform; not good also on consoles from the point of view of older gamers (that's what we get for games becoming mainstream...but OTOH we still have more than enough of the more "hardcore" ones)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528177</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28552351</id>
	<title>Re:Best controller ever: Gamecube controller</title>
	<author>j0nb0y</author>
	<datestamp>1246455420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>the game really has to be tailored to the controller to work well.</i></p><p>That's very true.  I have a Wii but no classic controller.  I plugged in a gamecube controller to play Super Mario World.  The game was unplayable.  The Y button was run and the B button was jump.  It was impossible to hit running jumps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the game really has to be tailored to the controller to work well.That 's very true .
I have a Wii but no classic controller .
I plugged in a gamecube controller to play Super Mario World .
The game was unplayable .
The Y button was run and the B button was jump .
It was impossible to hit running jumps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the game really has to be tailored to the controller to work well.That's very true.
I have a Wii but no classic controller.
I plugged in a gamecube controller to play Super Mario World.
The game was unplayable.
The Y button was run and the B button was jump.
It was impossible to hit running jumps.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527913</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28533079</id>
	<title>Re:Button loss anxiety is justifialble.</title>
	<author>rxan</author>
	<datestamp>1246392360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like the movie analogy but there's a problem. All of the changes you mentioned about movies were actually taken by <b>everyone</b> or nearly everyone to be an improvement --  no question about it.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Once upon a time, all movies were silent, and then someone invented the talkie.</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>Same thing with black and white. Someone invents color film, and people thing WOW, great more options!</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>Same thing with 2D sprite-based games. 3D comes along, and people at first thing Great!</p></div><p>Yes, everyone wanted sound and colours in their movies. Yes, everyone wanted 3D games. They made the experience wholly better. The only nay-sayers were due to the experimental state of the technologies when they were first introduced. But these problems were gradually fixed.

</p><p>Then motion control comes along and we don't have the same reaction that we did to the other technologies. Not everyone likes it. Right now it's sluggish, inaccurate, and often difficult to learn to play and develop for. So at this point it's not a improvement over button games.

</p><p>Even if motion control is perfected, it still has drawbacks compared to button controls. It requires more effort than button mashers, and is slower to execute actions than with buttons.

</p><p>So I think they will continue to coexist with one another for quite a long time.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I like the movie analogy but there 's a problem .
All of the changes you mentioned about movies were actually taken by everyone or nearly everyone to be an improvement -- no question about it.Once upon a time , all movies were silent , and then someone invented the talkie.Same thing with black and white .
Someone invents color film , and people thing WOW , great more options ! Same thing with 2D sprite-based games .
3D comes along , and people at first thing Great ! Yes , everyone wanted sound and colours in their movies .
Yes , everyone wanted 3D games .
They made the experience wholly better .
The only nay-sayers were due to the experimental state of the technologies when they were first introduced .
But these problems were gradually fixed .
Then motion control comes along and we do n't have the same reaction that we did to the other technologies .
Not everyone likes it .
Right now it 's sluggish , inaccurate , and often difficult to learn to play and develop for .
So at this point it 's not a improvement over button games .
Even if motion control is perfected , it still has drawbacks compared to button controls .
It requires more effort than button mashers , and is slower to execute actions than with buttons .
So I think they will continue to coexist with one another for quite a long time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like the movie analogy but there's a problem.
All of the changes you mentioned about movies were actually taken by everyone or nearly everyone to be an improvement --  no question about it.Once upon a time, all movies were silent, and then someone invented the talkie.Same thing with black and white.
Someone invents color film, and people thing WOW, great more options!Same thing with 2D sprite-based games.
3D comes along, and people at first thing Great!Yes, everyone wanted sound and colours in their movies.
Yes, everyone wanted 3D games.
They made the experience wholly better.
The only nay-sayers were due to the experimental state of the technologies when they were first introduced.
But these problems were gradually fixed.
Then motion control comes along and we don't have the same reaction that we did to the other technologies.
Not everyone likes it.
Right now it's sluggish, inaccurate, and often difficult to learn to play and develop for.
So at this point it's not a improvement over button games.
Even if motion control is perfected, it still has drawbacks compared to button controls.
It requires more effort than button mashers, and is slower to execute actions than with buttons.
So I think they will continue to coexist with one another for quite a long time.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528279</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526939</id>
	<title>A Classic, button-rich controller</title>
	<author>wjousts</author>
	<datestamp>1246370460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model\_M\_keyboard" title="wikipedia.org">Model M</a> [wikipedia.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Model M [ wikipedia.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Model M [wikipedia.org].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28531617</id>
	<title>Re:GamePads don't suck - you do?</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246387020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does Call of Duty allow you to play networked games with players on both consoles and PCs?  That's the real test. IIRC, every time this has been tried, PC players slaughter the console players. So mouse &amp; keyboard are demonstrably better than a gamepad for playing FPS. There's a lot more to gaming than FPSs however, and many types of game are better served by a digital gamepad than mouse or keyboard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does Call of Duty allow you to play networked games with players on both consoles and PCs ?
That 's the real test .
IIRC , every time this has been tried , PC players slaughter the console players .
So mouse &amp; keyboard are demonstrably better than a gamepad for playing FPS .
There 's a lot more to gaming than FPSs however , and many types of game are better served by a digital gamepad than mouse or keyboard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does Call of Duty allow you to play networked games with players on both consoles and PCs?
That's the real test.
IIRC, every time this has been tried, PC players slaughter the console players.
So mouse &amp; keyboard are demonstrably better than a gamepad for playing FPS.
There's a lot more to gaming than FPSs however, and many types of game are better served by a digital gamepad than mouse or keyboard.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528075</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28529281</id>
	<title>Re:sigh</title>
	<author>plague3106</author>
	<datestamp>1246380420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, I don't think its whining for the sake of whining.  I have a Wii and PS3.  Sometimes, I really just want to veg and play a game, without getting off the couch.  The PS3 controller is perfect for that.  The Wii is fun if I actually want to move around to play the game.  Sometimes I feel more active... it hurts though that even for games like Zelda, where there's SOME movement, I can't just sit back... because I need to keep the damn thing pointed at the screen.  The PS3 controller doesn't care how I'm holding it, which is nice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , I do n't think its whining for the sake of whining .
I have a Wii and PS3 .
Sometimes , I really just want to veg and play a game , without getting off the couch .
The PS3 controller is perfect for that .
The Wii is fun if I actually want to move around to play the game .
Sometimes I feel more active... it hurts though that even for games like Zelda , where there 's SOME movement , I ca n't just sit back... because I need to keep the damn thing pointed at the screen .
The PS3 controller does n't care how I 'm holding it , which is nice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, I don't think its whining for the sake of whining.
I have a Wii and PS3.
Sometimes, I really just want to veg and play a game, without getting off the couch.
The PS3 controller is perfect for that.
The Wii is fun if I actually want to move around to play the game.
Sometimes I feel more active... it hurts though that even for games like Zelda, where there's SOME movement, I can't just sit back... because I need to keep the damn thing pointed at the screen.
The PS3 controller doesn't care how I'm holding it, which is nice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526817</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527195</id>
	<title>You mean Keyboard and Mouse?</title>
	<author>vertinox</author>
	<datestamp>1246371660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526745</id>
	<title>Mouse and keyboard</title>
	<author>Engeekneer</author>
	<datestamp>1246369260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>For most non-simulator games, I'd stick with mouse and keyboard any day! Try to sniping someone in the head in a fast-paced game with a traditional controller without any auto aims, and then talk about "precision".</htmltext>
<tokenext>For most non-simulator games , I 'd stick with mouse and keyboard any day !
Try to sniping someone in the head in a fast-paced game with a traditional controller without any auto aims , and then talk about " precision " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For most non-simulator games, I'd stick with mouse and keyboard any day!
Try to sniping someone in the head in a fast-paced game with a traditional controller without any auto aims, and then talk about "precision".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527221</id>
	<title>Atari Jaguar Pro Controller</title>
	<author>ssjx</author>
	<datestamp>1246371780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Now there's a giant controller for those that like buttons! The key overlays are cool too...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now there 's a giant controller for those that like buttons !
The key overlays are cool too.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now there's a giant controller for those that like buttons!
The key overlays are cool too...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28530083</id>
	<title>Back in my day...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246382940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Back in my day we'd punch out the actions we wanted on a punch card!</p><p>And get off my lawn!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Back in my day we 'd punch out the actions we wanted on a punch card ! And get off my lawn !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back in my day we'd punch out the actions we wanted on a punch card!And get off my lawn!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527199</id>
	<title>No, gamepads suck</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246371720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gamepads, or the "classic" controllers he's whining about, actually suck quite a lot. They have terrible precision when compared to a mouse, don't work that well for things like Flight Sims when compared to a flightstick, and don't offer accessability over motion controls.</p><p>I've never understood the appeal. Playing console shooters is like steering a drunk camel compared to on the PC. Good RTS with large numbers of units is pretty much a joke. Trying to explain to a non gamer how to play is an exercise in futility compared to the thirty seconds it takes to understand the Wiimote.</p><p>The only real upside to the things is that they're generic. You can shoehorn a lot of game types to work on the thing, no matter how badly it works for most of them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gamepads , or the " classic " controllers he 's whining about , actually suck quite a lot .
They have terrible precision when compared to a mouse , do n't work that well for things like Flight Sims when compared to a flightstick , and do n't offer accessability over motion controls.I 've never understood the appeal .
Playing console shooters is like steering a drunk camel compared to on the PC .
Good RTS with large numbers of units is pretty much a joke .
Trying to explain to a non gamer how to play is an exercise in futility compared to the thirty seconds it takes to understand the Wiimote.The only real upside to the things is that they 're generic .
You can shoehorn a lot of game types to work on the thing , no matter how badly it works for most of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gamepads, or the "classic" controllers he's whining about, actually suck quite a lot.
They have terrible precision when compared to a mouse, don't work that well for things like Flight Sims when compared to a flightstick, and don't offer accessability over motion controls.I've never understood the appeal.
Playing console shooters is like steering a drunk camel compared to on the PC.
Good RTS with large numbers of units is pretty much a joke.
Trying to explain to a non gamer how to play is an exercise in futility compared to the thirty seconds it takes to understand the Wiimote.The only real upside to the things is that they're generic.
You can shoehorn a lot of game types to work on the thing, no matter how badly it works for most of them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526859</id>
	<title>Re:sigh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246370100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I pretty much agree.  The old button controller isn't going anywhere soon.  Some games are much better with the standard button controller.  Some games are much better with a keyboard.  The Wii-mote and other devices are just adding to the gaming experience by offering another input device.  I don't see any need to be concerned about the death of an input device just because it is the cool thing d'jour.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I pretty much agree .
The old button controller is n't going anywhere soon .
Some games are much better with the standard button controller .
Some games are much better with a keyboard .
The Wii-mote and other devices are just adding to the gaming experience by offering another input device .
I do n't see any need to be concerned about the death of an input device just because it is the cool thing d'jour .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I pretty much agree.
The old button controller isn't going anywhere soon.
Some games are much better with the standard button controller.
Some games are much better with a keyboard.
The Wii-mote and other devices are just adding to the gaming experience by offering another input device.
I don't see any need to be concerned about the death of an input device just because it is the cool thing d'jour.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526729</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28530127</id>
	<title>weeee</title>
	<author>Tyrannicsupremacy</author>
	<datestamp>1246383120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So now Console gamers can bitch about the same thing that PC gamers have been bitching about for years!</htmltext>
<tokenext>So now Console gamers can bitch about the same thing that PC gamers have been bitching about for years !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So now Console gamers can bitch about the same thing that PC gamers have been bitching about for years!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527123</id>
	<title>Re:Best controller, you ask?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246371420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>D-pad: Sega Saturn</p><p>Analog: Gamecube</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>D-pad : Sega SaturnAnalog : Gamecube</tokentext>
<sentencetext>D-pad: Sega SaturnAnalog: Gamecube</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527001</id>
	<title>Soon button games will be like 2d platform games..</title>
	<author>NukeDoggie</author>
	<datestamp>1246370820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But really isn't motion control really about MORE granularity of control?  There are 360 degrees of freedom in all 3 axes giving you MUCH more control really.  Also, there will still be some buttons.  Instead of doing an actual action (uppercut to the left) they have made it a tight series of button presses.
<br> <br>
The worst example of this is Guitar Hero, where it is really NOTHING like playing guitar really.
<br> <br>
Button based games are like 2D platform Games vs 3D First Person Shooters, they will always be beloved, but I bet you they will feel 10 years ago pretty soon...
<br> <br>
What if you have 6 buttons and 4 motion controllers??  2 feet, 2 hands and 3 buttons in each hand?!?</htmltext>
<tokenext>But really is n't motion control really about MORE granularity of control ?
There are 360 degrees of freedom in all 3 axes giving you MUCH more control really .
Also , there will still be some buttons .
Instead of doing an actual action ( uppercut to the left ) they have made it a tight series of button presses .
The worst example of this is Guitar Hero , where it is really NOTHING like playing guitar really .
Button based games are like 2D platform Games vs 3D First Person Shooters , they will always be beloved , but I bet you they will feel 10 years ago pretty soon.. . What if you have 6 buttons and 4 motion controllers ? ?
2 feet , 2 hands and 3 buttons in each hand ? !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But really isn't motion control really about MORE granularity of control?
There are 360 degrees of freedom in all 3 axes giving you MUCH more control really.
Also, there will still be some buttons.
Instead of doing an actual action (uppercut to the left) they have made it a tight series of button presses.
The worst example of this is Guitar Hero, where it is really NOTHING like playing guitar really.
Button based games are like 2D platform Games vs 3D First Person Shooters, they will always be beloved, but I bet you they will feel 10 years ago pretty soon...
 
What if you have 6 buttons and 4 motion controllers??
2 feet, 2 hands and 3 buttons in each hand?!
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28536645</id>
	<title>Best controller ever devised.</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1246366260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Logitech Cyberman was the best game controller ever devised. 6 degrees of freedom (the equivalent of 2 joysticks + 4 buttons) on one control in the right hand, and 10 buttons on the left. And, unlike those Microsoft monstrosities, it was very intuitive to use.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Logitech Cyberman was the best game controller ever devised .
6 degrees of freedom ( the equivalent of 2 joysticks + 4 buttons ) on one control in the right hand , and 10 buttons on the left .
And , unlike those Microsoft monstrosities , it was very intuitive to use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Logitech Cyberman was the best game controller ever devised.
6 degrees of freedom (the equivalent of 2 joysticks + 4 buttons) on one control in the right hand, and 10 buttons on the left.
And, unlike those Microsoft monstrosities, it was very intuitive to use.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28530753</id>
	<title>I quote</title>
	<author>KneelBeforeZod</author>
	<datestamp>1246384680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>To quote Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation about motion controllers: "People plays games to unwind and no one unwinds by coming home and waving their arms like air traffic controllers covered in beetles."  And that said it all</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>To quote Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation about motion controllers : " People plays games to unwind and no one unwinds by coming home and waving their arms like air traffic controllers covered in beetles .
" And that said it all</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To quote Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation about motion controllers: "People plays games to unwind and no one unwinds by coming home and waving their arms like air traffic controllers covered in beetles.
"  And that said it all
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528081</id>
	<title>That is not a classic controller</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1246375800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this is:<br><a href="http://blog.newsweek.com/photos/levelup/images/original/The-Atari-2600-Video-Computer-System-controller.aspx" title="newsweek.com">http://blog.newsweek.com/photos/levelup/images/original/The-Atari-2600-Video-Computer-System-controller.aspx</a> [newsweek.com]</p><p>Stupid kids on my lawn~</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this is : http : //blog.newsweek.com/photos/levelup/images/original/The-Atari-2600-Video-Computer-System-controller.aspx [ newsweek.com ] Stupid kids on my lawn ~</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this is:http://blog.newsweek.com/photos/levelup/images/original/The-Atari-2600-Video-Computer-System-controller.aspx [newsweek.com]Stupid kids on my lawn~</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526709</id>
	<title>Get over it, leave the sofa.</title>
	<author>alexandre\_ganso</author>
	<datestamp>1246369080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It would be nice to see those fat stinky gamers sweating on foot...</p><p>First post?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It would be nice to see those fat stinky gamers sweating on foot...First post ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would be nice to see those fat stinky gamers sweating on foot...First post?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28538955</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>CronoCloud</author>
	<datestamp>1246387800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's easy, XABY on the SNES are Triangle, Circle, Cross, and Square on the PS1/PS2/PS3. L1 and R1 are the smaller top shoulder buttons on each side.  L2 and R2 are the bottom larger ones. L3 and R3 are the buttons you get when you press in the joysticks, easy to remember.</p><p>Triangle is like the top of the tree, pointing up, it's the top button of the four.<br>Cross is like a person holding up two things in it's arms, it's on the bottom<br>Square and Circle are in between, Square to the left, Circle to the right.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's easy , XABY on the SNES are Triangle , Circle , Cross , and Square on the PS1/PS2/PS3 .
L1 and R1 are the smaller top shoulder buttons on each side .
L2 and R2 are the bottom larger ones .
L3 and R3 are the buttons you get when you press in the joysticks , easy to remember.Triangle is like the top of the tree , pointing up , it 's the top button of the four.Cross is like a person holding up two things in it 's arms , it 's on the bottomSquare and Circle are in between , Square to the left , Circle to the right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's easy, XABY on the SNES are Triangle, Circle, Cross, and Square on the PS1/PS2/PS3.
L1 and R1 are the smaller top shoulder buttons on each side.
L2 and R2 are the bottom larger ones.
L3 and R3 are the buttons you get when you press in the joysticks, easy to remember.Triangle is like the top of the tree, pointing up, it's the top button of the four.Cross is like a person holding up two things in it's arms, it's on the bottomSquare and Circle are in between, Square to the left, Circle to the right.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527689</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526913</id>
	<title>Seperate the hands</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246370340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If there is one thing I wish all consoles would adopt from the Wii it's not the motion controlls but the ability to hold your hands independently.</p><p>Playing Zelda on the Wii was the most relaxing way to play a game I've experienced to date. I could just sit back, put one hand behind my head while the other rests comfortably on the couch. I want to do that on the other consoles, too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If there is one thing I wish all consoles would adopt from the Wii it 's not the motion controlls but the ability to hold your hands independently.Playing Zelda on the Wii was the most relaxing way to play a game I 've experienced to date .
I could just sit back , put one hand behind my head while the other rests comfortably on the couch .
I want to do that on the other consoles , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If there is one thing I wish all consoles would adopt from the Wii it's not the motion controlls but the ability to hold your hands independently.Playing Zelda on the Wii was the most relaxing way to play a game I've experienced to date.
I could just sit back, put one hand behind my head while the other rests comfortably on the couch.
I want to do that on the other consoles, too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526963</id>
	<title>New controllers opens new doors, but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246370640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've enjoyed Wii Sports, Warioware Smooth Moves and the likes. They are a lot of fun and burn calories. However, I find I spend more time on the couch playing games like Metroid Prime 3 or Resident Evil 4 which make great use of the Wii Remote, but don't require to turn a game session into aerobics. This is why I don't see classic controllers being replaced by the likes of Natal anytime soon.</p><p>There will be a lot of impressive tech demos with Natal and probably a couple of fun games with the Sony controller, but I'm of the opinion that Nintendo achieved the best balance of motion vs classic controller.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've enjoyed Wii Sports , Warioware Smooth Moves and the likes .
They are a lot of fun and burn calories .
However , I find I spend more time on the couch playing games like Metroid Prime 3 or Resident Evil 4 which make great use of the Wii Remote , but do n't require to turn a game session into aerobics .
This is why I do n't see classic controllers being replaced by the likes of Natal anytime soon.There will be a lot of impressive tech demos with Natal and probably a couple of fun games with the Sony controller , but I 'm of the opinion that Nintendo achieved the best balance of motion vs classic controller .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've enjoyed Wii Sports, Warioware Smooth Moves and the likes.
They are a lot of fun and burn calories.
However, I find I spend more time on the couch playing games like Metroid Prime 3 or Resident Evil 4 which make great use of the Wii Remote, but don't require to turn a game session into aerobics.
This is why I don't see classic controllers being replaced by the likes of Natal anytime soon.There will be a lot of impressive tech demos with Natal and probably a couple of fun games with the Sony controller, but I'm of the opinion that Nintendo achieved the best balance of motion vs classic controller.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527193</id>
	<title>Re:Best controller, you ask?</title>
	<author>Darkness404</author>
	<datestamp>1246371660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think that the classic controller feels very much like a slightly thicker version of the SNES controller. And if you want a SNES controller for the Wii Nintendo made some in Japan and you can probably get them on e-bay or similar.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that the classic controller feels very much like a slightly thicker version of the SNES controller .
And if you want a SNES controller for the Wii Nintendo made some in Japan and you can probably get them on e-bay or similar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that the classic controller feels very much like a slightly thicker version of the SNES controller.
And if you want a SNES controller for the Wii Nintendo made some in Japan and you can probably get them on e-bay or similar.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28532899</id>
	<title>Re:Mouse and keyboard</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246391580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Precision isn't about the mouse &amp; keyboard per se, it's about having a fixed reference surface. Handhelds will always be at a disadvantage in high-movement precision gaming compared to fixed-surface controls. be they K&amp;M, traditional arcade, or sim cockpits. It's the core delinating factor in control design.</p><p>That's a challenge for gaming companies because the greater mass market wants a handheld to operate from the couch -- there's a primary pressure to make handheld gaming as fun as fixed-surface. The size of the fixed-surface market is a demonstration of just how hard that is to do, and the greater size of the handheld market is a demostration of the strength of the pressure and how well game development has responded so far.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Precision is n't about the mouse &amp; keyboard per se , it 's about having a fixed reference surface .
Handhelds will always be at a disadvantage in high-movement precision gaming compared to fixed-surface controls .
be they K&amp;M , traditional arcade , or sim cockpits .
It 's the core delinating factor in control design.That 's a challenge for gaming companies because the greater mass market wants a handheld to operate from the couch -- there 's a primary pressure to make handheld gaming as fun as fixed-surface .
The size of the fixed-surface market is a demonstration of just how hard that is to do , and the greater size of the handheld market is a demostration of the strength of the pressure and how well game development has responded so far .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Precision isn't about the mouse &amp; keyboard per se, it's about having a fixed reference surface.
Handhelds will always be at a disadvantage in high-movement precision gaming compared to fixed-surface controls.
be they K&amp;M, traditional arcade, or sim cockpits.
It's the core delinating factor in control design.That's a challenge for gaming companies because the greater mass market wants a handheld to operate from the couch -- there's a primary pressure to make handheld gaming as fun as fixed-surface.
The size of the fixed-surface market is a demonstration of just how hard that is to do, and the greater size of the handheld market is a demostration of the strength of the pressure and how well game development has responded so far.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526745</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28531059</id>
	<title>Stick in upper left is unnatural</title>
	<author>sznupi</author>
	<datestamp>1246385340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And you can check that yourself - just relax your hand (holding arm in the same orientation like when playing on a pad). Your thumb won't be in the place of GC/Xbox/Dreamcast stick. It will be in the place of DS stick.</p><p>OTOH when in upper left you can supply greater force with your thumb more easily, so that's a good place for d-pad.</p><p>But you don't have to believe me, just look at how all joypad vendors gravitate slowly towards the layout which DualShock holds for almost 13 years...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And you can check that yourself - just relax your hand ( holding arm in the same orientation like when playing on a pad ) .
Your thumb wo n't be in the place of GC/Xbox/Dreamcast stick .
It will be in the place of DS stick.OTOH when in upper left you can supply greater force with your thumb more easily , so that 's a good place for d-pad.But you do n't have to believe me , just look at how all joypad vendors gravitate slowly towards the layout which DualShock holds for almost 13 years.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And you can check that yourself - just relax your hand (holding arm in the same orientation like when playing on a pad).
Your thumb won't be in the place of GC/Xbox/Dreamcast stick.
It will be in the place of DS stick.OTOH when in upper left you can supply greater force with your thumb more easily, so that's a good place for d-pad.But you don't have to believe me, just look at how all joypad vendors gravitate slowly towards the layout which DualShock holds for almost 13 years...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526841</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527607</id>
	<title>Controller Luddite Alert !</title>
	<author>gonzoxl5</author>
	<datestamp>1246373520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think this is just an example of someone who is exhibiting the natural human trait of 'resistance to change', we do however have an even stronger trait and that's the desire to evolve.</p><p>The first console I ever played with was an old Binatone machine, it played ping pong and had a light gun, the second was the Atari VCS, it had a joystick, this was better at doing somethings as it allowed you to move in more dimensions, I don't think it was any better at Tennis.</p><p>Thereafter, down the years I have used many controllers, I play a lot of PC games and have both an old fashioned Sidewinder for playing some sims (I loved the SW FF btw) and a Thrustmaster FCS for playing some sims more properly, both are great at sims but would be rubbish at Tennis.</p><p>The only console I own is a Wii, the Wiimote is great at Tennis and with the nunchuk and the Zelda Crossbow plastic extension it also makes a great gun. If you make a Wiimote look like a wheel with another bit of plastic then that works fine as well.</p><p>I'm not sure we'll ever see one true controller as I think the controller is part of the immersive gameplay experience so it needs to have a character that matches what you are trying to achieve, both in order to feel right and also in order to work well. The wiimote is good at achieving this as it's different sleeves allow it to very effectively bridge the gap between what it is and what you want it to be like for a particular game.</p><p>I'm afraid I've never really been into fighting games so can't empathise with the loss of being able to make your favourite combo, I did really like my MS FF though and I've not found anything which felt quite as good since for the purpose of flying helicopters in BF1942 so I guess that's kind of similar. It was rubbish at Tennis though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think this is just an example of someone who is exhibiting the natural human trait of 'resistance to change ' , we do however have an even stronger trait and that 's the desire to evolve.The first console I ever played with was an old Binatone machine , it played ping pong and had a light gun , the second was the Atari VCS , it had a joystick , this was better at doing somethings as it allowed you to move in more dimensions , I do n't think it was any better at Tennis.Thereafter , down the years I have used many controllers , I play a lot of PC games and have both an old fashioned Sidewinder for playing some sims ( I loved the SW FF btw ) and a Thrustmaster FCS for playing some sims more properly , both are great at sims but would be rubbish at Tennis.The only console I own is a Wii , the Wiimote is great at Tennis and with the nunchuk and the Zelda Crossbow plastic extension it also makes a great gun .
If you make a Wiimote look like a wheel with another bit of plastic then that works fine as well.I 'm not sure we 'll ever see one true controller as I think the controller is part of the immersive gameplay experience so it needs to have a character that matches what you are trying to achieve , both in order to feel right and also in order to work well .
The wiimote is good at achieving this as it 's different sleeves allow it to very effectively bridge the gap between what it is and what you want it to be like for a particular game.I 'm afraid I 've never really been into fighting games so ca n't empathise with the loss of being able to make your favourite combo , I did really like my MS FF though and I 've not found anything which felt quite as good since for the purpose of flying helicopters in BF1942 so I guess that 's kind of similar .
It was rubbish at Tennis though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think this is just an example of someone who is exhibiting the natural human trait of 'resistance to change', we do however have an even stronger trait and that's the desire to evolve.The first console I ever played with was an old Binatone machine, it played ping pong and had a light gun, the second was the Atari VCS, it had a joystick, this was better at doing somethings as it allowed you to move in more dimensions, I don't think it was any better at Tennis.Thereafter, down the years I have used many controllers, I play a lot of PC games and have both an old fashioned Sidewinder for playing some sims (I loved the SW FF btw) and a Thrustmaster FCS for playing some sims more properly, both are great at sims but would be rubbish at Tennis.The only console I own is a Wii, the Wiimote is great at Tennis and with the nunchuk and the Zelda Crossbow plastic extension it also makes a great gun.
If you make a Wiimote look like a wheel with another bit of plastic then that works fine as well.I'm not sure we'll ever see one true controller as I think the controller is part of the immersive gameplay experience so it needs to have a character that matches what you are trying to achieve, both in order to feel right and also in order to work well.
The wiimote is good at achieving this as it's different sleeves allow it to very effectively bridge the gap between what it is and what you want it to be like for a particular game.I'm afraid I've never really been into fighting games so can't empathise with the loss of being able to make your favourite combo, I did really like my MS FF though and I've not found anything which felt quite as good since for the purpose of flying helicopters in BF1942 so I guess that's kind of similar.
It was rubbish at Tennis though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528397</id>
	<title>Re:And a shout out to...</title>
	<author>Minwee</author>
	<datestamp>1246377060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Screw that.  If you were serious about gaming you would have had the <a href="http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/131" title="vintagecomputing.com">Epyx 500XJ</a> [vintagecomputing.com].  And you would use it until the red plastic stick broke off and your left hand curled up into a ball from the painful cramps, and then you would keep on going -- pushing the steel rod around with your right hand and pushing your knee against the button until your power supply overheated and you just couldn't play any more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Screw that .
If you were serious about gaming you would have had the Epyx 500XJ [ vintagecomputing.com ] .
And you would use it until the red plastic stick broke off and your left hand curled up into a ball from the painful cramps , and then you would keep on going -- pushing the steel rod around with your right hand and pushing your knee against the button until your power supply overheated and you just could n't play any more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Screw that.
If you were serious about gaming you would have had the Epyx 500XJ [vintagecomputing.com].
And you would use it until the red plastic stick broke off and your left hand curled up into a ball from the painful cramps, and then you would keep on going -- pushing the steel rod around with your right hand and pushing your knee against the button until your power supply overheated and you just couldn't play any more.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527029</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527797</id>
	<title>Re:Mouse and keyboard</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246374480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, there are other games besides simulators and first person shooters.  Try playing Street Fighter, Ikaruga, or MegaMan with a mouse and keyboard and let me know how that works.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , there are other games besides simulators and first person shooters .
Try playing Street Fighter , Ikaruga , or MegaMan with a mouse and keyboard and let me know how that works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, there are other games besides simulators and first person shooters.
Try playing Street Fighter, Ikaruga, or MegaMan with a mouse and keyboard and let me know how that works.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526745</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28529181</id>
	<title>Re:Mouse and keyboard</title>
	<author>sznupi</author>
	<datestamp>1246380060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>sniping someone in the head in a fast-paced game</i><br>You're thinking here "Quake-style FPP" <b>only</b>, not "fast-paced game". That you consider this style of game as representative of "most non-simulator games" shows only how you limit your horizons</p><p>Mouse is appriopriate only in two types of games: those that have GUI-style controls (and that includes, surprise, some <b>simulators</b>. Of cities, for example) and those that are build around pointing things (<b>not</b> shooting; lightgun games do that)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>sniping someone in the head in a fast-paced gameYou 're thinking here " Quake-style FPP " only , not " fast-paced game " .
That you consider this style of game as representative of " most non-simulator games " shows only how you limit your horizonsMouse is appriopriate only in two types of games : those that have GUI-style controls ( and that includes , surprise , some simulators .
Of cities , for example ) and those that are build around pointing things ( not shooting ; lightgun games do that )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sniping someone in the head in a fast-paced gameYou're thinking here "Quake-style FPP" only, not "fast-paced game".
That you consider this style of game as representative of "most non-simulator games" shows only how you limit your horizonsMouse is appriopriate only in two types of games: those that have GUI-style controls (and that includes, surprise, some simulators.
Of cities, for example) and those that are build around pointing things (not shooting; lightgun games do that)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526745</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527683</id>
	<title>Re:Best controller ever: Gamecube controller</title>
	<author>JCholewa</author>
	<datestamp>1246373940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gamecube's Z button is horrible, you have to keep your hands close together when using the controller.  That last one is sort of a PC/Wii thing, but it's turning into a game breaker for me lately. A controller feels annoying to me nowadays if I can't just dangle my hands at my side or have them both resting on the arms of my chair.</p><p>But that aside<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... yeah, the Z button.  Breaks easily (on some controllers I've had, you have to press the fuck out of the button to get it to register, set on a weird hinge that feels awkward.  N64's Z button was genius, but this implementation of it was a poor afterthought.</p><p>(other than that, it's a pretty great controller!)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gamecube 's Z button is horrible , you have to keep your hands close together when using the controller .
That last one is sort of a PC/Wii thing , but it 's turning into a game breaker for me lately .
A controller feels annoying to me nowadays if I ca n't just dangle my hands at my side or have them both resting on the arms of my chair.But that aside ... yeah , the Z button .
Breaks easily ( on some controllers I 've had , you have to press the fuck out of the button to get it to register , set on a weird hinge that feels awkward .
N64 's Z button was genius , but this implementation of it was a poor afterthought .
( other than that , it 's a pretty great controller !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gamecube's Z button is horrible, you have to keep your hands close together when using the controller.
That last one is sort of a PC/Wii thing, but it's turning into a game breaker for me lately.
A controller feels annoying to me nowadays if I can't just dangle my hands at my side or have them both resting on the arms of my chair.But that aside ... yeah, the Z button.
Breaks easily (on some controllers I've had, you have to press the fuck out of the button to get it to register, set on a weird hinge that feels awkward.
N64's Z button was genius, but this implementation of it was a poor afterthought.
(other than that, it's a pretty great controller!
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526841</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28530323</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>mdf356</author>
	<datestamp>1246383540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed, I was just thinking the same thing.  I thought the SNES controller was pushing my upper limit for buttons (I could manage the directional control plus A/B/X/Y but the L/R buttons were a tough sqeeze), but the NES was a little button-light.  Metroid for SNES was a great use of all the options the controller provided since L/R weren't needed too often.  Even though I was about 20 at the time, the later Nintendo and other boxes new controllers just had too many buttons and joysticks and stuff for me to want to spend any time learning them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed , I was just thinking the same thing .
I thought the SNES controller was pushing my upper limit for buttons ( I could manage the directional control plus A/B/X/Y but the L/R buttons were a tough sqeeze ) , but the NES was a little button-light .
Metroid for SNES was a great use of all the options the controller provided since L/R were n't needed too often .
Even though I was about 20 at the time , the later Nintendo and other boxes new controllers just had too many buttons and joysticks and stuff for me to want to spend any time learning them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed, I was just thinking the same thing.
I thought the SNES controller was pushing my upper limit for buttons (I could manage the directional control plus A/B/X/Y but the L/R buttons were a tough sqeeze), but the NES was a little button-light.
Metroid for SNES was a great use of all the options the controller provided since L/R weren't needed too often.
Even though I was about 20 at the time, the later Nintendo and other boxes new controllers just had too many buttons and joysticks and stuff for me to want to spend any time learning them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28531551</id>
	<title>Re:Best controller ever: Gamecube controller</title>
	<author>andy9701</author>
	<datestamp>1246386840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The 360 controller has come to be my favorite (though i have yet to touch the ps3 one), though I would prefer that they flatten the tops of the buttons a bit so they don't hurt my fingers during long play sessions where you might be aggressively pressing them. The dpad gets the job done too, though I do like the playstation style d pad a lot.</p></div></blockquote><p>The 360 controller's dpad is awful - probably the worst I've ever used. Any 2D game (fighters especially) aren't playable with the default controller due to the dpad. I tried playing Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix with the controller, and I just couldn't do it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The 360 controller has come to be my favorite ( though i have yet to touch the ps3 one ) , though I would prefer that they flatten the tops of the buttons a bit so they do n't hurt my fingers during long play sessions where you might be aggressively pressing them .
The dpad gets the job done too , though I do like the playstation style d pad a lot.The 360 controller 's dpad is awful - probably the worst I 've ever used .
Any 2D game ( fighters especially ) are n't playable with the default controller due to the dpad .
I tried playing Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix with the controller , and I just could n't do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The 360 controller has come to be my favorite (though i have yet to touch the ps3 one), though I would prefer that they flatten the tops of the buttons a bit so they don't hurt my fingers during long play sessions where you might be aggressively pressing them.
The dpad gets the job done too, though I do like the playstation style d pad a lot.The 360 controller's dpad is awful - probably the worst I've ever used.
Any 2D game (fighters especially) aren't playable with the default controller due to the dpad.
I tried playing Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix with the controller, and I just couldn't do it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527913</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527949</id>
	<title>Ahhh.... Disruption</title>
	<author>Slithe</author>
	<datestamp>1246375320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Everyone nodding their heads in agreement should read <a href="http://malstrom.50webs.com/" title="50webs.com">Malstrom's articles</a> [50webs.com].

Pre-1985 everyone knew the standard controller was a joystick. Then Nintendo released the button controller, and it became the standard.

The joystick is still around for some specialist games like flight simulators, but new games have replaced it. Ironically, buttonpad games may soon be confined to the PC.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone nodding their heads in agreement should read Malstrom 's articles [ 50webs.com ] .
Pre-1985 everyone knew the standard controller was a joystick .
Then Nintendo released the button controller , and it became the standard .
The joystick is still around for some specialist games like flight simulators , but new games have replaced it .
Ironically , buttonpad games may soon be confined to the PC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone nodding their heads in agreement should read Malstrom's articles [50webs.com].
Pre-1985 everyone knew the standard controller was a joystick.
Then Nintendo released the button controller, and it became the standard.
The joystick is still around for some specialist games like flight simulators, but new games have replaced it.
Ironically, buttonpad games may soon be confined to the PC.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528311</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers &amp; the power of nostalgi</title>
	<author>sznupi</author>
	<datestamp>1246376700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have always maintained that people have unrealistically positive judgment about artifacts of their youth. Like you with the flat brick, too few buttons and purely digital goodness of the SNES controller.</p><p>Like me with Dual Shock. Though in this case...for <b>some</b> reason every next generation of classic controllers from competing manufacturers were becoming closer to Dual Shock, even though they really tried to be different at first. DS otoh - virtually unchanged since...1996? (Dual Analogue Controller, Japanese version with rumble) There is a reason for that...</p><p>You might love Nintendo more than SCE, but there were sound reasons why the latter kicked N ass for almost a decade. I'd say SCE had indeed created the best "classic" console to date with the driving concepts behind PS1 (and PS2 to a lesser degree). That includes the controller.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have always maintained that people have unrealistically positive judgment about artifacts of their youth .
Like you with the flat brick , too few buttons and purely digital goodness of the SNES controller.Like me with Dual Shock .
Though in this case...for some reason every next generation of classic controllers from competing manufacturers were becoming closer to Dual Shock , even though they really tried to be different at first .
DS otoh - virtually unchanged since...1996 ?
( Dual Analogue Controller , Japanese version with rumble ) There is a reason for that...You might love Nintendo more than SCE , but there were sound reasons why the latter kicked N ass for almost a decade .
I 'd say SCE had indeed created the best " classic " console to date with the driving concepts behind PS1 ( and PS2 to a lesser degree ) .
That includes the controller .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have always maintained that people have unrealistically positive judgment about artifacts of their youth.
Like you with the flat brick, too few buttons and purely digital goodness of the SNES controller.Like me with Dual Shock.
Though in this case...for some reason every next generation of classic controllers from competing manufacturers were becoming closer to Dual Shock, even though they really tried to be different at first.
DS otoh - virtually unchanged since...1996?
(Dual Analogue Controller, Japanese version with rumble) There is a reason for that...You might love Nintendo more than SCE, but there were sound reasons why the latter kicked N ass for almost a decade.
I'd say SCE had indeed created the best "classic" console to date with the driving concepts behind PS1 (and PS2 to a lesser degree).
That includes the controller.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526873</id>
	<title>Half the appeal?</title>
	<author>MojoRilla</author>
	<datestamp>1246370100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Having a game controller was half the appeal?  Tell that to PC gamers, who by and large still use the keyboard.
<br> <br>
Also, who is going to miss the arcane key combinations required to pull off a chain of combos?  I for one won't miss <a href="http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200901/N09.0107.1406.58413.htm" title="gameinformer.com">Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A</a> [gameinformer.com] one bit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Having a game controller was half the appeal ?
Tell that to PC gamers , who by and large still use the keyboard .
Also , who is going to miss the arcane key combinations required to pull off a chain of combos ?
I for one wo n't miss Up , Up , Down , Down , Left , Right , Left , Right , B , A [ gameinformer.com ] one bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having a game controller was half the appeal?
Tell that to PC gamers, who by and large still use the keyboard.
Also, who is going to miss the arcane key combinations required to pull off a chain of combos?
I for one won't miss Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A [gameinformer.com] one bit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528653</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>KDR\_11k</author>
	<datestamp>1246377960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fighting games seem to move more and more to a 3+1 button scheme (three attack strengths, one special button) so a 6 button controller is becoming unnecessary for them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fighting games seem to move more and more to a 3 + 1 button scheme ( three attack strengths , one special button ) so a 6 button controller is becoming unnecessary for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fighting games seem to move more and more to a 3+1 button scheme (three attack strengths, one special button) so a 6 button controller is becoming unnecessary for them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527289</id>
	<title>Re:sigh</title>
	<author>Dusthead Jr.</author>
	<datestamp>1246372140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't think that the whining is 100\% unjustified, as annoying as whining can be. Sometimes the "new and improved" has a tendency to displace the old and traditional. There's the idea that if it's new and popular it must be better than the old so let's slow down with the old stuff and focus on the new. Which is the way it should be, that's how progress works. But sometimes the old works just as well, if not better, for some people.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think that the whining is 100 \ % unjustified , as annoying as whining can be .
Sometimes the " new and improved " has a tendency to displace the old and traditional .
There 's the idea that if it 's new and popular it must be better than the old so let 's slow down with the old stuff and focus on the new .
Which is the way it should be , that 's how progress works .
But sometimes the old works just as well , if not better , for some people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think that the whining is 100\% unjustified, as annoying as whining can be.
Sometimes the "new and improved" has a tendency to displace the old and traditional.
There's the idea that if it's new and popular it must be better than the old so let's slow down with the old stuff and focus on the new.
Which is the way it should be, that's how progress works.
But sometimes the old works just as well, if not better, for some people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526729</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526797</id>
	<title>Best controller, you ask?</title>
	<author>Spyware23</author>
	<datestamp>1246369620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>D-pad: SNES<br>Analog: Gamecube.</p><p>Why? Go play some SNES/Cube games. I'm not sure which guys in Nintendo are developing the controllers, but they used to do a very, very good job. Too bad they kind of screwed up the Classic Controller for the Wii. They should have gone with the SNES controller, without editing too much, just new start and select buttons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>D-pad : SNESAnalog : Gamecube.Why ?
Go play some SNES/Cube games .
I 'm not sure which guys in Nintendo are developing the controllers , but they used to do a very , very good job .
Too bad they kind of screwed up the Classic Controller for the Wii .
They should have gone with the SNES controller , without editing too much , just new start and select buttons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>D-pad: SNESAnalog: Gamecube.Why?
Go play some SNES/Cube games.
I'm not sure which guys in Nintendo are developing the controllers, but they used to do a very, very good job.
Too bad they kind of screwed up the Classic Controller for the Wii.
They should have gone with the SNES controller, without editing too much, just new start and select buttons.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</id>
	<title>Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>emocomputerjock</author>
	<datestamp>1246369080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have always maintained that the original SNES controller is the best gaming controller ever developed. It has the right feel, just enough buttons, and great responsiveness. I haven't seen a better pad in 20+ years of gaming.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have always maintained that the original SNES controller is the best gaming controller ever developed .
It has the right feel , just enough buttons , and great responsiveness .
I have n't seen a better pad in 20 + years of gaming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have always maintained that the original SNES controller is the best gaming controller ever developed.
It has the right feel, just enough buttons, and great responsiveness.
I haven't seen a better pad in 20+ years of gaming.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28532359</id>
	<title>Re:Best controller, you ask?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246389600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.retrousb.com/index.php?cPath=22&amp;osCsid=3831fbe14d8b68112723108c89e6cb4f" title="retrousb.com" rel="nofollow">NES and SNES adapters for Wii</a> [retrousb.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>NES and SNES adapters for Wii [ retrousb.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>NES and SNES adapters for Wii [retrousb.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527193</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526901</id>
	<title>Motion control in portables</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246370340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Give me motion control on my portable systems.  I want to look like a complete idiot in the waiting room.  "Sir, Mental Health is down the hall."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Give me motion control on my portable systems .
I want to look like a complete idiot in the waiting room .
" Sir , Mental Health is down the hall .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give me motion control on my portable systems.
I want to look like a complete idiot in the waiting room.
"Sir, Mental Health is down the hall.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28541407</id>
	<title>On "making something more accessible"</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1246458600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Making something 'more accessible' doesn't necessarily make it better.</p></div><p>I disagree.  More accessible is better.</p><p>However, more accessible at the expense of some other valuable quality is not (always) better.</p><p>Whether or not it is really depends on what you value.  Out of curiousness, I went out and bought an FPS for my wii; Metroid Prime 3: Corruption to be particular.</p><p>By pointing the wiimote, you both reorient your view-frustum in 3D space and move your aim-point on a 2D screen.  The reorientation works (as best I can tell) by adding some acceleration which dies out over time due to "rotational friction".  That means that if you point the aim-point to an (x, y)-coordinate on the screen, you aim at the corresponding point in 3D space for a very short time; then, due to the acceleration introduced by moving the wiimote your character yaws and pitches elsewhere, making it hard to aim.</p><p>To compensate for this, you can lock on to targets, meaning you always yaw and pitch in the target's direction, and can point in 2D space without affecting 3D space, making it easier to aim straight.</p><p>I think that makes the business of aiming easier than in, say, quake (or any PC FPS game I've ever played, really).  Does the game suffer from this?  Well, given than Metroid Prime is really a first-person action-adventure, it doesn't detract from what the game tries to be, so no.  But if you hope for a twitch-based FPS, you'll be disappointed (as I was, although I learned to love MP3:C for what it is rather than what I wanted it to be).</p><p>How well does this generalize?  Meh, I don't know... but always consider what the core challenge is; making other things easier to do is often a win (listen hard to this, people who "designed" the GH3 user interface and menu structure).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Making something 'more accessible ' does n't necessarily make it better.I disagree .
More accessible is better.However , more accessible at the expense of some other valuable quality is not ( always ) better.Whether or not it is really depends on what you value .
Out of curiousness , I went out and bought an FPS for my wii ; Metroid Prime 3 : Corruption to be particular.By pointing the wiimote , you both reorient your view-frustum in 3D space and move your aim-point on a 2D screen .
The reorientation works ( as best I can tell ) by adding some acceleration which dies out over time due to " rotational friction " .
That means that if you point the aim-point to an ( x , y ) -coordinate on the screen , you aim at the corresponding point in 3D space for a very short time ; then , due to the acceleration introduced by moving the wiimote your character yaws and pitches elsewhere , making it hard to aim.To compensate for this , you can lock on to targets , meaning you always yaw and pitch in the target 's direction , and can point in 2D space without affecting 3D space , making it easier to aim straight.I think that makes the business of aiming easier than in , say , quake ( or any PC FPS game I 've ever played , really ) .
Does the game suffer from this ?
Well , given than Metroid Prime is really a first-person action-adventure , it does n't detract from what the game tries to be , so no .
But if you hope for a twitch-based FPS , you 'll be disappointed ( as I was , although I learned to love MP3 : C for what it is rather than what I wanted it to be ) .How well does this generalize ?
Meh , I do n't know... but always consider what the core challenge is ; making other things easier to do is often a win ( listen hard to this , people who " designed " the GH3 user interface and menu structure ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Making something 'more accessible' doesn't necessarily make it better.I disagree.
More accessible is better.However, more accessible at the expense of some other valuable quality is not (always) better.Whether or not it is really depends on what you value.
Out of curiousness, I went out and bought an FPS for my wii; Metroid Prime 3: Corruption to be particular.By pointing the wiimote, you both reorient your view-frustum in 3D space and move your aim-point on a 2D screen.
The reorientation works (as best I can tell) by adding some acceleration which dies out over time due to "rotational friction".
That means that if you point the aim-point to an (x, y)-coordinate on the screen, you aim at the corresponding point in 3D space for a very short time; then, due to the acceleration introduced by moving the wiimote your character yaws and pitches elsewhere, making it hard to aim.To compensate for this, you can lock on to targets, meaning you always yaw and pitch in the target's direction, and can point in 2D space without affecting 3D space, making it easier to aim straight.I think that makes the business of aiming easier than in, say, quake (or any PC FPS game I've ever played, really).
Does the game suffer from this?
Well, given than Metroid Prime is really a first-person action-adventure, it doesn't detract from what the game tries to be, so no.
But if you hope for a twitch-based FPS, you'll be disappointed (as I was, although I learned to love MP3:C for what it is rather than what I wanted it to be).How well does this generalize?
Meh, I don't know... but always consider what the core challenge is; making other things easier to do is often a win (listen hard to this, people who "designed" the GH3 user interface and menu structure).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526837</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527609</id>
	<title>I think we're missing the point a bit...</title>
	<author>hal2814</author>
	<datestamp>1246373520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Motion control is useful in and of itself but more importantly, it has the potential to be a universal control system.  Ideally any sort of control scheme could be emulated through a sufficiently sophisticated motion control system.  Analog controllers, steering wheels, fishing poles, even d-pads and buttons.  Are we there yet.  Hell no.  It's even still easier to use an old-fashioned controller than it is to use the steering wheel option in Mario Kart.  But it's not exactly an impossible dream.  Right now, there are several forms of control that can be successfully emulated by the Wiimote.  I don't think the Wiimote will carry us to the end game of motion controls but it's not like the PS3 uses a one-button digital joystick made for left-handed people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Motion control is useful in and of itself but more importantly , it has the potential to be a universal control system .
Ideally any sort of control scheme could be emulated through a sufficiently sophisticated motion control system .
Analog controllers , steering wheels , fishing poles , even d-pads and buttons .
Are we there yet .
Hell no .
It 's even still easier to use an old-fashioned controller than it is to use the steering wheel option in Mario Kart .
But it 's not exactly an impossible dream .
Right now , there are several forms of control that can be successfully emulated by the Wiimote .
I do n't think the Wiimote will carry us to the end game of motion controls but it 's not like the PS3 uses a one-button digital joystick made for left-handed people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Motion control is useful in and of itself but more importantly, it has the potential to be a universal control system.
Ideally any sort of control scheme could be emulated through a sufficiently sophisticated motion control system.
Analog controllers, steering wheels, fishing poles, even d-pads and buttons.
Are we there yet.
Hell no.
It's even still easier to use an old-fashioned controller than it is to use the steering wheel option in Mario Kart.
But it's not exactly an impossible dream.
Right now, there are several forms of control that can be successfully emulated by the Wiimote.
I don't think the Wiimote will carry us to the end game of motion controls but it's not like the PS3 uses a one-button digital joystick made for left-handed people.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528903</id>
	<title>Re:sigh</title>
	<author>KDR\_11k</author>
	<datestamp>1246378980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who said anything about buttons vs motion controls, except Microsoft with their Natal vaporware? The Wiimote has buttons on it yet also uses motion controls. Since motion controls still let you keep your fingers on the buttons there's really no reason to put that as a dichtomy. A game design can decide to use one or the other for a certain action but it should pick whichever is more useful for the action. Sometimes precision is not desirable, golf for example isn't improved by letting the player input angle and power in numbers despite the increased precision of that. Many games have at least one action that can safely be mapped to motion controls (I include the pointing functionality in that term BTW). The market on the HD consoles is dominated by games that would be better with the Wiimote. More accurate aiming, better analog range for driving, probably some way to make melee based games better, RTSes on a traditional controller are a freaking joke anyway, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who said anything about buttons vs motion controls , except Microsoft with their Natal vaporware ?
The Wiimote has buttons on it yet also uses motion controls .
Since motion controls still let you keep your fingers on the buttons there 's really no reason to put that as a dichtomy .
A game design can decide to use one or the other for a certain action but it should pick whichever is more useful for the action .
Sometimes precision is not desirable , golf for example is n't improved by letting the player input angle and power in numbers despite the increased precision of that .
Many games have at least one action that can safely be mapped to motion controls ( I include the pointing functionality in that term BTW ) .
The market on the HD consoles is dominated by games that would be better with the Wiimote .
More accurate aiming , better analog range for driving , probably some way to make melee based games better , RTSes on a traditional controller are a freaking joke anyway , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who said anything about buttons vs motion controls, except Microsoft with their Natal vaporware?
The Wiimote has buttons on it yet also uses motion controls.
Since motion controls still let you keep your fingers on the buttons there's really no reason to put that as a dichtomy.
A game design can decide to use one or the other for a certain action but it should pick whichever is more useful for the action.
Sometimes precision is not desirable, golf for example isn't improved by letting the player input angle and power in numbers despite the increased precision of that.
Many games have at least one action that can safely be mapped to motion controls (I include the pointing functionality in that term BTW).
The market on the HD consoles is dominated by games that would be better with the Wiimote.
More accurate aiming, better analog range for driving, probably some way to make melee based games better, RTSes on a traditional controller are a freaking joke anyway, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526729</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28537559</id>
	<title>I Play Games, Not Controllers</title>
	<author>adavies42</author>
	<datestamp>1246373160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Combo-memorization is the antithesis of my ideal gaming experience. To me, the ideal game is one where I never have to think about the control system, only about the content. The <i>Myst</i> games are probably the best example--they'd be wonderful if I could actually spend time <i>solving</i> puzzles, instead of rastering the mouse across the screen, checking for cursor changes, trying to <i>find</i> puzzles.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Combo-memorization is the antithesis of my ideal gaming experience .
To me , the ideal game is one where I never have to think about the control system , only about the content .
The Myst games are probably the best example--they 'd be wonderful if I could actually spend time solving puzzles , instead of rastering the mouse across the screen , checking for cursor changes , trying to find puzzles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Combo-memorization is the antithesis of my ideal gaming experience.
To me, the ideal game is one where I never have to think about the control system, only about the content.
The Myst games are probably the best example--they'd be wonderful if I could actually spend time solving puzzles, instead of rastering the mouse across the screen, checking for cursor changes, trying to find puzzles.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527089</id>
	<title>Gimme back my joystick!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246371240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I never grew fond of these so-called controllers where I have to use my left thumb for steering because someone thought, hey, screw those righthanders by putting the movement control on the controller's left side.</p><p>I was perfectly happy with the old (digital) joysticks like the Competition Pro or some more robust joyboards which could be fixed to the desk using suction cups, and also offered automatic fire triggering.</p><p>Where I can see a use of the WiiMote for more lifelike gameplaying (e.g. Golf, Swordfight, Tennis), I never found these weird "let's replace the joystick by buttons or just a small thumbstick" controls really useful...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I never grew fond of these so-called controllers where I have to use my left thumb for steering because someone thought , hey , screw those righthanders by putting the movement control on the controller 's left side.I was perfectly happy with the old ( digital ) joysticks like the Competition Pro or some more robust joyboards which could be fixed to the desk using suction cups , and also offered automatic fire triggering.Where I can see a use of the WiiMote for more lifelike gameplaying ( e.g .
Golf , Swordfight , Tennis ) , I never found these weird " let 's replace the joystick by buttons or just a small thumbstick " controls really useful.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I never grew fond of these so-called controllers where I have to use my left thumb for steering because someone thought, hey, screw those righthanders by putting the movement control on the controller's left side.I was perfectly happy with the old (digital) joysticks like the Competition Pro or some more robust joyboards which could be fixed to the desk using suction cups, and also offered automatic fire triggering.Where I can see a use of the WiiMote for more lifelike gameplaying (e.g.
Golf, Swordfight, Tennis), I never found these weird "let's replace the joystick by buttons or just a small thumbstick" controls really useful...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28529273</id>
	<title>I never thought I'd see the day...</title>
	<author>Spike15</author>
	<datestamp>1246380420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...when people talked about controllers having "precision".

I mean what happened to the good old keyboard and mouse?  The de facto bastions of input precision?  Did we forget about them?</htmltext>
<tokenext>...when people talked about controllers having " precision " .
I mean what happened to the good old keyboard and mouse ?
The de facto bastions of input precision ?
Did we forget about them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...when people talked about controllers having "precision".
I mean what happened to the good old keyboard and mouse?
The de facto bastions of input precision?
Did we forget about them?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28537403</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246372140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bullshit.  The controller peaked with the Gravis Gamepad.</p><p><a href="http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Gravis\_pc\_gamepad.jpg/250px-Gravis\_pc\_gamepad.jpg" title="answers.com" rel="nofollow">http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Gravis\_pc\_gamepad.jpg/250px-Gravis\_pc\_gamepad.jpg</a> [answers.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bullshit .
The controller peaked with the Gravis Gamepad.http : //wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Gravis \ _pc \ _gamepad.jpg/250px-Gravis \ _pc \ _gamepad.jpg [ answers.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bullshit.
The controller peaked with the Gravis Gamepad.http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Gravis\_pc\_gamepad.jpg/250px-Gravis\_pc\_gamepad.jpg [answers.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528243</id>
	<title>Re:No, gamepads suck</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246376460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I guess if "most of them" are FPS and RTS games, then you'd be right.  I agree complete that the mouse is better for FPS than a pad, though I'm not so convinced on WASD VS analog joystick.  In RTS games, a keyboard mouse combo is unquestionably better.
<br> <br>
Fortunately, there are far more genres than FPS and RTS, for which, a joypad is a much better fit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess if " most of them " are FPS and RTS games , then you 'd be right .
I agree complete that the mouse is better for FPS than a pad , though I 'm not so convinced on WASD VS analog joystick .
In RTS games , a keyboard mouse combo is unquestionably better .
Fortunately , there are far more genres than FPS and RTS , for which , a joypad is a much better fit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess if "most of them" are FPS and RTS games, then you'd be right.
I agree complete that the mouse is better for FPS than a pad, though I'm not so convinced on WASD VS analog joystick.
In RTS games, a keyboard mouse combo is unquestionably better.
Fortunately, there are far more genres than FPS and RTS, for which, a joypad is a much better fit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28532729</id>
	<title>Re:Classic Controllers</title>
	<author>pecosdave</author>
	<datestamp>1246390860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I loved the basic design of the SNES control, and in turn I rather like the PlayStation expanded copy of it, but I had one beef with the SNES control.  The L &amp; R buttons had a bad habit of breaking, and I'm pretty sure they were designed for Japanese and childrens hands, not the hands of the 17 year old behemoths many of my friends and I were.</p><p>On a positive note, the best joystick made for affordable home use, especially for fighting games, was made for that system.  The Fighter Stick SN - there was a Genesis version also.  Unlike on the NES where I used my NES Advantage for ALL games, I only used the Fighter Stick SN for certain games, mostly fighting games, as I found the use of the shoulder buttons were actually best placed on the shoulders most of the time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I loved the basic design of the SNES control , and in turn I rather like the PlayStation expanded copy of it , but I had one beef with the SNES control .
The L &amp; R buttons had a bad habit of breaking , and I 'm pretty sure they were designed for Japanese and childrens hands , not the hands of the 17 year old behemoths many of my friends and I were.On a positive note , the best joystick made for affordable home use , especially for fighting games , was made for that system .
The Fighter Stick SN - there was a Genesis version also .
Unlike on the NES where I used my NES Advantage for ALL games , I only used the Fighter Stick SN for certain games , mostly fighting games , as I found the use of the shoulder buttons were actually best placed on the shoulders most of the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I loved the basic design of the SNES control, and in turn I rather like the PlayStation expanded copy of it, but I had one beef with the SNES control.
The L &amp; R buttons had a bad habit of breaking, and I'm pretty sure they were designed for Japanese and childrens hands, not the hands of the 17 year old behemoths many of my friends and I were.On a positive note, the best joystick made for affordable home use, especially for fighting games, was made for that system.
The Fighter Stick SN - there was a Genesis version also.
Unlike on the NES where I used my NES Advantage for ALL games, I only used the Fighter Stick SN for certain games, mostly fighting games, as I found the use of the shoulder buttons were actually best placed on the shoulders most of the time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526949</id>
	<title>Re:Best controller, you ask?</title>
	<author>Logical Zebra</author>
	<datestamp>1246370520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To this day, I think of the buttons on my PlayStation or XBOX in terms of the SNES layout.  "Hit the <b>Y</b> button!  I mean the <em>Square</em> one!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To this day , I think of the buttons on my PlayStation or XBOX in terms of the SNES layout .
" Hit the Y button !
I mean the Square one !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To this day, I think of the buttons on my PlayStation or XBOX in terms of the SNES layout.
"Hit the Y button!
I mean the Square one!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28529647</id>
	<title>In with the New. . .</title>
	<author>Fantastic Lad</author>
	<datestamp>1246381500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's how it works. . .</p><p>The system you grew up with has a life span which will end at some point and you will be left feeling either bitter or so old you just don't care.  --Either that, or evolution will reach a plateau of suitable perfect-ness in bio-feedback device and stay there for 20 million years.  I doubt even the Mouse, Screen &amp; Keyboard will manage this, though as of yet, nothing seems to match it for getting yourself from one end of an Operating System to the other.</p><p>For games. . .  Any controller which has a limit to its usefulness in moving stuff around on screen, and all controllers seem to, will irritate some engineer/designer somewhere enough to spawn some new brand of tool.  The kids new to video games will be more than willing to train themselves on whatever cool new system is offered so long as it activates all their happy circuits, and whatever solution you were content (ecstatic) with while growing up will have to shuffle over to make room, and will eventually find itself relegated to a niche market.  And you won't understand what your kids are talking about half the time.  Welcome to parenthood.  You're not cool anymore.  Laugh at it.  The other option is to wear leather pants and buy a sports car and look really sad and desperate.</p><p>Best to age with a little grace.  Let the Nintendo button thingy go.  You don't want to be the old guy saying, "When I was young, we had to play our games with a STICK!  In 8 bits!  And we LIKED it!"</p><p>Hm.  Actually, it might be kind of fun to be that guy.</p><p>-FL</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's how it works .
. .The system you grew up with has a life span which will end at some point and you will be left feeling either bitter or so old you just do n't care .
--Either that , or evolution will reach a plateau of suitable perfect-ness in bio-feedback device and stay there for 20 million years .
I doubt even the Mouse , Screen &amp; Keyboard will manage this , though as of yet , nothing seems to match it for getting yourself from one end of an Operating System to the other.For games .
. .
Any controller which has a limit to its usefulness in moving stuff around on screen , and all controllers seem to , will irritate some engineer/designer somewhere enough to spawn some new brand of tool .
The kids new to video games will be more than willing to train themselves on whatever cool new system is offered so long as it activates all their happy circuits , and whatever solution you were content ( ecstatic ) with while growing up will have to shuffle over to make room , and will eventually find itself relegated to a niche market .
And you wo n't understand what your kids are talking about half the time .
Welcome to parenthood .
You 're not cool anymore .
Laugh at it .
The other option is to wear leather pants and buy a sports car and look really sad and desperate.Best to age with a little grace .
Let the Nintendo button thingy go .
You do n't want to be the old guy saying , " When I was young , we had to play our games with a STICK !
In 8 bits !
And we LIKED it ! " Hm .
Actually , it might be kind of fun to be that guy.-FL</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's how it works.
. .The system you grew up with has a life span which will end at some point and you will be left feeling either bitter or so old you just don't care.
--Either that, or evolution will reach a plateau of suitable perfect-ness in bio-feedback device and stay there for 20 million years.
I doubt even the Mouse, Screen &amp; Keyboard will manage this, though as of yet, nothing seems to match it for getting yourself from one end of an Operating System to the other.For games.
. .
Any controller which has a limit to its usefulness in moving stuff around on screen, and all controllers seem to, will irritate some engineer/designer somewhere enough to spawn some new brand of tool.
The kids new to video games will be more than willing to train themselves on whatever cool new system is offered so long as it activates all their happy circuits, and whatever solution you were content (ecstatic) with while growing up will have to shuffle over to make room, and will eventually find itself relegated to a niche market.
And you won't understand what your kids are talking about half the time.
Welcome to parenthood.
You're not cool anymore.
Laugh at it.
The other option is to wear leather pants and buy a sports car and look really sad and desperate.Best to age with a little grace.
Let the Nintendo button thingy go.
You don't want to be the old guy saying, "When I was young, we had to play our games with a STICK!
In 8 bits!
And we LIKED it!"Hm.
Actually, it might be kind of fun to be that guy.-FL</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28530439</id>
	<title>Re:Soon button games will be like 2d platform game</title>
	<author>KDR\_11k</author>
	<datestamp>1246383840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's still a massive demand for 2d jump &amp; runs, IIRC New Super Mario Bros sold 18 million units so far and is still selling years after its release. It's successful enough to make Nintendo admit that there might be some demand for a 2D Mario on the Wii too.</p><p>Either way I do think the Wiimote has the potential to greatly improve many genres provided their designs are adjusted to actually utilize the ability to freely move the controller instead of still thinking in a simple FSE with transitions triggered by motions instead of buttons. Motion controls are analog, that can be used for many things (e.g. in sports games the whole inaccuracy in your movement).</p><p>Come to think of it, sports games were the most improved by it. That's because they're based on real lifeactivities that involve motions too. Many other genres are about made-up actions which seem to be made up around the old control paradigm. Sports games had a design that was based around motion control right away and only worked around with buttons, other games have a design that's intended for buttons. In my oppinion games need to be redesigned to really utilize motion controls because they have to get rid of all the things that were added to make them work on buttons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's still a massive demand for 2d jump &amp; runs , IIRC New Super Mario Bros sold 18 million units so far and is still selling years after its release .
It 's successful enough to make Nintendo admit that there might be some demand for a 2D Mario on the Wii too.Either way I do think the Wiimote has the potential to greatly improve many genres provided their designs are adjusted to actually utilize the ability to freely move the controller instead of still thinking in a simple FSE with transitions triggered by motions instead of buttons .
Motion controls are analog , that can be used for many things ( e.g .
in sports games the whole inaccuracy in your movement ) .Come to think of it , sports games were the most improved by it .
That 's because they 're based on real lifeactivities that involve motions too .
Many other genres are about made-up actions which seem to be made up around the old control paradigm .
Sports games had a design that was based around motion control right away and only worked around with buttons , other games have a design that 's intended for buttons .
In my oppinion games need to be redesigned to really utilize motion controls because they have to get rid of all the things that were added to make them work on buttons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's still a massive demand for 2d jump &amp; runs, IIRC New Super Mario Bros sold 18 million units so far and is still selling years after its release.
It's successful enough to make Nintendo admit that there might be some demand for a 2D Mario on the Wii too.Either way I do think the Wiimote has the potential to greatly improve many genres provided their designs are adjusted to actually utilize the ability to freely move the controller instead of still thinking in a simple FSE with transitions triggered by motions instead of buttons.
Motion controls are analog, that can be used for many things (e.g.
in sports games the whole inaccuracy in your movement).Come to think of it, sports games were the most improved by it.
That's because they're based on real lifeactivities that involve motions too.
Many other genres are about made-up actions which seem to be made up around the old control paradigm.
Sports games had a design that was based around motion control right away and only worked around with buttons, other games have a design that's intended for buttons.
In my oppinion games need to be redesigned to really utilize motion controls because they have to get rid of all the things that were added to make them work on buttons.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527001</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526729</id>
	<title>sigh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246369140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone afraid that buttons are going to disappear is just getting upset for no good reason. There's bazillions of hours invested into buttons, programming buttons, and designing game interfaces around buttons. Everyone isn't going to just up and abandon all of that investment and knowledge just because something new has appeared.</p><p>You'll just have to live with the fact that your beloved button based games might have to sit next to some motion control games on the store shelves. But that's not really something worth whining about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone afraid that buttons are going to disappear is just getting upset for no good reason .
There 's bazillions of hours invested into buttons , programming buttons , and designing game interfaces around buttons .
Everyone is n't going to just up and abandon all of that investment and knowledge just because something new has appeared.You 'll just have to live with the fact that your beloved button based games might have to sit next to some motion control games on the store shelves .
But that 's not really something worth whining about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone afraid that buttons are going to disappear is just getting upset for no good reason.
There's bazillions of hours invested into buttons, programming buttons, and designing game interfaces around buttons.
Everyone isn't going to just up and abandon all of that investment and knowledge just because something new has appeared.You'll just have to live with the fact that your beloved button based games might have to sit next to some motion control games on the store shelves.
But that's not really something worth whining about.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28529209</id>
	<title>Why not games with simpler controllers...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246380120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Like Steel Battalion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel\_Battalion</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Like Steel Battalion : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel \ _Battalion</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Like Steel Battalion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel\_Battalion</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28532355</id>
	<title>Epyx Joystick for the Amiga</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246389600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the Epyx was my favourite gaming controller of all time.  Very short throw, accurate and easy to hold.  Oh..... the memories.......</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the Epyx was my favourite gaming controller of all time .
Very short throw , accurate and easy to hold .
Oh..... the memories...... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the Epyx was my favourite gaming controller of all time.
Very short throw, accurate and easy to hold.
Oh..... the memories.......</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28528463</id>
	<title>Abstract controllers for abstract gameplay</title>
	<author>GMFTatsujin</author>
	<datestamp>1246377300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I appreciated one argument that was made in the article: that the human mind is very good at abstracting the actions of the game onto a generic controller: many controls make for multiple applications. Having an action-specific controller might actually limit the development of games that experiment with more bizarre modes of play.</p><p>Specific controllers bog down the gaming impulse, too.  It would suck if, to play the baseball game, I had to break out the Baseball-o-tron, to play the racing game I need the Steeringwheel-o-tron... I guess it's a good way for companies to sell more accessories.  And crap: if I wanted that much exercise, I'd just go play frisbee.  I actually *like* the big blue room.</p><p>The Wii controller strikes a nice balance and is a flexible piece of tech for what it's called on to do.  Motion sensing is great in the sports games since it can emulate just about anything you can swing or throw, but it *also* acts as a classic pad for the abstracted "jump, punch, run" sorts of action games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I appreciated one argument that was made in the article : that the human mind is very good at abstracting the actions of the game onto a generic controller : many controls make for multiple applications .
Having an action-specific controller might actually limit the development of games that experiment with more bizarre modes of play.Specific controllers bog down the gaming impulse , too .
It would suck if , to play the baseball game , I had to break out the Baseball-o-tron , to play the racing game I need the Steeringwheel-o-tron... I guess it 's a good way for companies to sell more accessories .
And crap : if I wanted that much exercise , I 'd just go play frisbee .
I actually * like * the big blue room.The Wii controller strikes a nice balance and is a flexible piece of tech for what it 's called on to do .
Motion sensing is great in the sports games since it can emulate just about anything you can swing or throw , but it * also * acts as a classic pad for the abstracted " jump , punch , run " sorts of action games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I appreciated one argument that was made in the article: that the human mind is very good at abstracting the actions of the game onto a generic controller: many controls make for multiple applications.
Having an action-specific controller might actually limit the development of games that experiment with more bizarre modes of play.Specific controllers bog down the gaming impulse, too.
It would suck if, to play the baseball game, I had to break out the Baseball-o-tron, to play the racing game I need the Steeringwheel-o-tron... I guess it's a good way for companies to sell more accessories.
And crap: if I wanted that much exercise, I'd just go play frisbee.
I actually *like* the big blue room.The Wii controller strikes a nice balance and is a flexible piece of tech for what it's called on to do.
Motion sensing is great in the sports games since it can emulate just about anything you can swing or throw, but it *also* acts as a classic pad for the abstracted "jump, punch, run" sorts of action games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28534191</id>
	<title>Re:Bah; kinesophobia</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1246353900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So you are saying the Wii-mote is inherently better than all the other controllers?  I think you are wrong.  It isn't about people being afraid to learn new skills.  Everything new isn't better.  I think the Wii-mote is great for party games.  But for regular gaming, I would take a normal controller over the Wii-mote.  I play soccer to exercise.  I play games to kick back and relax on my recliner.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So you are saying the Wii-mote is inherently better than all the other controllers ?
I think you are wrong .
It is n't about people being afraid to learn new skills .
Everything new is n't better .
I think the Wii-mote is great for party games .
But for regular gaming , I would take a normal controller over the Wii-mote .
I play soccer to exercise .
I play games to kick back and relax on my recliner .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you are saying the Wii-mote is inherently better than all the other controllers?
I think you are wrong.
It isn't about people being afraid to learn new skills.
Everything new isn't better.
I think the Wii-mote is great for party games.
But for regular gaming, I would take a normal controller over the Wii-mote.
I play soccer to exercise.
I play games to kick back and relax on my recliner.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28526919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_30_0654217.28527913</id>
	<title>Re:Best controller ever: Gamecube controller</title>
	<author>Reapy</author>
	<datestamp>1246375080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gamecube is decent, but the game really has to be tailored to the controller to work well. Combos like b + x or y or the z button really become awkward. I also disliked the huge shoulder buttons as they took a lot of weight to push in, and usually resulted in cramped fingers for me after playing games like rogue squadron where I had to keep the button depressed for a long while.</p><p>I liked the dual shock ones when they came along, just for having the analog sticks there, but later came to like the xbox's analog stick placement.</p><p>The 360 controller has come to be my favorite (though i have yet to touch the ps3 one), though I would prefer that they flatten the tops of the buttons a bit so they don't hurt my fingers during long play sessions where you might be aggressively pressing them. The dpad gets the job done too, though I do like the playstation style d pad a lot.</p><p>I like having the bumper buttons available to hit with a different feel then the trigger in addition to the standard buttons and the analog sticks. Another big selling feature for me is how easily it works on the pc without having to go out and get anything funky to plug it in (I assume ps3 works this way as well?)</p><p>Either way, gamecube was nice, but only because most of the better games on it uses few of the buttons. It was a nice system for its games, but it was not as versatile as the other controllers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gamecube is decent , but the game really has to be tailored to the controller to work well .
Combos like b + x or y or the z button really become awkward .
I also disliked the huge shoulder buttons as they took a lot of weight to push in , and usually resulted in cramped fingers for me after playing games like rogue squadron where I had to keep the button depressed for a long while.I liked the dual shock ones when they came along , just for having the analog sticks there , but later came to like the xbox 's analog stick placement.The 360 controller has come to be my favorite ( though i have yet to touch the ps3 one ) , though I would prefer that they flatten the tops of the buttons a bit so they do n't hurt my fingers during long play sessions where you might be aggressively pressing them .
The dpad gets the job done too , though I do like the playstation style d pad a lot.I like having the bumper buttons available to hit with a different feel then the trigger in addition to the standard buttons and the analog sticks .
Another big selling feature for me is how easily it works on the pc without having to go out and get anything funky to plug it in ( I assume ps3 works this way as well ?
) Either way , gamecube was nice , but only because most of the better games on it uses few of the buttons .
It was a nice system for its games , but it was not as versatile as the other controllers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gamecube is decent, but the game really has to be tailored to the controller to work well.
Combos like b + x or y or the z button really become awkward.
I also disliked the huge shoulder buttons as they took a lot of weight to push in, and usually resulted in cramped fingers for me after playing games like rogue squadron where I had to keep the button depressed for a long while.I liked the dual shock ones when they came along, just for having the analog sticks there, but later came to like the xbox's analog stick placement.The 360 controller has come to be my favorite (though i have yet to touch the ps3 one), though I would prefer that they flatten the tops of the buttons a bit so they don't hurt my fingers during long play sessions where you might be aggressively pressing them.
The dpad gets the job done too, though I do like the playstation style d pad a lot.I like having the bumper buttons available to hit with a different feel then the trigger in addition to the standard buttons and the analog sticks.
Another big selling feature for me is how easily it works on the pc without having to go out and get anything funky to plug it in (I assume ps3 works this way as well?
)Either way, gamecube was nice, but only because most of the better games on it uses few of the buttons.
It was a nice system for its games, but it was not as versatile as the other controllers.</sentencetext>
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