<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_29_1230216</id>
	<title>The Technology Keeping Information Flowing in Iran</title>
	<author>CmdrTaco</author>
	<datestamp>1246280400000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.anus.com/metal" rel="nofollow">Death Metal</a> writes <i>"Iranians seeking to share videos and other eyewitness accounts of the demonstrations that have roiled their country since disputed elections two weeks ago are using an Internet encryption program <a href="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/26/protesters-use-navy-technology-to-avoid-censorship/">originally developed by and for the US Navy</a>. Designed a decade ago to secure Internet communications between US ships at sea, The Onion Router, or TOR, has become one of the most important proxies in Iran for gaining access to Web sites such as Twitter, YouTube and Facebook."</i>   A related story was submitted anonymously about the efforts of hactivists to <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090627/ap\_on\_re\_mi\_ea/ml\_iran\_hack\_backlash\_1">keep the information flowing</a> inside the data-locked nation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Death Metal writes " Iranians seeking to share videos and other eyewitness accounts of the demonstrations that have roiled their country since disputed elections two weeks ago are using an Internet encryption program originally developed by and for the US Navy .
Designed a decade ago to secure Internet communications between US ships at sea , The Onion Router , or TOR , has become one of the most important proxies in Iran for gaining access to Web sites such as Twitter , YouTube and Facebook .
" A related story was submitted anonymously about the efforts of hactivists to keep the information flowing inside the data-locked nation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Death Metal writes "Iranians seeking to share videos and other eyewitness accounts of the demonstrations that have roiled their country since disputed elections two weeks ago are using an Internet encryption program originally developed by and for the US Navy.
Designed a decade ago to secure Internet communications between US ships at sea, The Onion Router, or TOR, has become one of the most important proxies in Iran for gaining access to Web sites such as Twitter, YouTube and Facebook.
"   A related story was submitted anonymously about the efforts of hactivists to keep the information flowing inside the data-locked nation.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28516937</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>RandomU</author>
	<datestamp>1246302420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try the following differences.</p><p>1) According to your own source there were 150 people demonstrating in the streets in front of there congress. Heck we had over 200 people demonstrating in front of the Sacramento Capital in support of Iranian Freedom and the video from Iran shows 150,000+ people demonstrating in Iranian streets. That&#226;(TM)s 1000 times bigger demonstrations so yes you can expect 1000 times more media coverage and people paying attention.</p><p>2) No signs of any real violence let alone deaths so far, at least not in your link. Compare that to Iran where we have 20 or more deaths, video of protesters being gunned down, Women being beaten, Universities being trashed and so on.</p><p>3) Their is real fear that the opposition leader in Iran may well wind up having a nasty "accident". By contrast Honduras gave the president a plane ride to another country where he is free to travel to any number of safe friendly countries and to continue broadcasting his position. Heck even he says in your video "He doesn&#226;(TM)t need any protection." While those who did the coup may very well be in the wrong it's difficult to get riled up when all they did was kick him out of the country and allow him to keep on saying whatever he wants.</p><p>4) Reporting "seems" to still be going on in Honduras, Compare that to "Reporters without Borders" reports of dozens of Reporters arrested and hundreds kicked out of the country.</p><p>5) Iran has charged British employees with crimes. Iran has kicked people out of embassies and Iran has condemned other nations and made threats towards countries around the world.</p><p>6) Iran "could" build nuclear tipped missiles capable of hitting Western Europe within a matter of a few Years and starting a World War. Honduras "could" build an Iced Mocha capable of giving me a good caffeine buzz. Yea for some reason people pay attention to what goes on in countries that have a potential to kill them.</p><p>For these and many more reasons Honduras is not as news worthy as Iran.</p><p>Posted in response to "How come nobody talks what has happened this past week and is still happening in Honduras [youtube.com]?"</p><p>RandomU</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try the following differences.1 ) According to your own source there were 150 people demonstrating in the streets in front of there congress .
Heck we had over 200 people demonstrating in front of the Sacramento Capital in support of Iranian Freedom and the video from Iran shows 150,000 + people demonstrating in Iranian streets .
That   ( TM ) s 1000 times bigger demonstrations so yes you can expect 1000 times more media coverage and people paying attention.2 ) No signs of any real violence let alone deaths so far , at least not in your link .
Compare that to Iran where we have 20 or more deaths , video of protesters being gunned down , Women being beaten , Universities being trashed and so on.3 ) Their is real fear that the opposition leader in Iran may well wind up having a nasty " accident " .
By contrast Honduras gave the president a plane ride to another country where he is free to travel to any number of safe friendly countries and to continue broadcasting his position .
Heck even he says in your video " He doesn   ( TM ) t need any protection .
" While those who did the coup may very well be in the wrong it 's difficult to get riled up when all they did was kick him out of the country and allow him to keep on saying whatever he wants.4 ) Reporting " seems " to still be going on in Honduras , Compare that to " Reporters without Borders " reports of dozens of Reporters arrested and hundreds kicked out of the country.5 ) Iran has charged British employees with crimes .
Iran has kicked people out of embassies and Iran has condemned other nations and made threats towards countries around the world.6 ) Iran " could " build nuclear tipped missiles capable of hitting Western Europe within a matter of a few Years and starting a World War .
Honduras " could " build an Iced Mocha capable of giving me a good caffeine buzz .
Yea for some reason people pay attention to what goes on in countries that have a potential to kill them.For these and many more reasons Honduras is not as news worthy as Iran.Posted in response to " How come nobody talks what has happened this past week and is still happening in Honduras [ youtube.com ] ?
" RandomU</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try the following differences.1) According to your own source there were 150 people demonstrating in the streets in front of there congress.
Heck we had over 200 people demonstrating in front of the Sacramento Capital in support of Iranian Freedom and the video from Iran shows 150,000+ people demonstrating in Iranian streets.
Thatâ(TM)s 1000 times bigger demonstrations so yes you can expect 1000 times more media coverage and people paying attention.2) No signs of any real violence let alone deaths so far, at least not in your link.
Compare that to Iran where we have 20 or more deaths, video of protesters being gunned down, Women being beaten, Universities being trashed and so on.3) Their is real fear that the opposition leader in Iran may well wind up having a nasty "accident".
By contrast Honduras gave the president a plane ride to another country where he is free to travel to any number of safe friendly countries and to continue broadcasting his position.
Heck even he says in your video "He doesnâ(TM)t need any protection.
" While those who did the coup may very well be in the wrong it's difficult to get riled up when all they did was kick him out of the country and allow him to keep on saying whatever he wants.4) Reporting "seems" to still be going on in Honduras, Compare that to "Reporters without Borders" reports of dozens of Reporters arrested and hundreds kicked out of the country.5) Iran has charged British employees with crimes.
Iran has kicked people out of embassies and Iran has condemned other nations and made threats towards countries around the world.6) Iran "could" build nuclear tipped missiles capable of hitting Western Europe within a matter of a few Years and starting a World War.
Honduras "could" build an Iced Mocha capable of giving me a good caffeine buzz.
Yea for some reason people pay attention to what goes on in countries that have a potential to kill them.For these and many more reasons Honduras is not as news worthy as Iran.Posted in response to "How come nobody talks what has happened this past week and is still happening in Honduras [youtube.com]?
"RandomU</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513525</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246287900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Successful revolutions have three phases. First, a strategically located single or limited segment of society begins vocally to express resentment, asserting itself in the streets of a major city, usually the capital. This segment is joined by other segments in the city and by segments elsewhere as the demonstration spreads to other cities and becomes more assertive, disruptive and potentially violent. As resistance to the regime spreads, the regime deploys its military and security forces. These forces, drawn from resisting social segments and isolated from the rest of society, turn on the regime, and stop following the regime's orders. This is what happened to the Shah of Iran in 1979; it is also what happened in Russia in 1917 or in Romania in 1989.  <p>
Revolutions fail when no one joins the initial segment, meaning the initial demonstrators are the ones who find themselves socially isolated. When the demonstrations do not spread to other cities, the demonstrations either peter out or the regime brings in the security and military forces -- who remain loyal to the regime and frequently personally hostile to the demonstrators -- and use force to suppress the rising to the extent necessary. This is what happened in Tiananmen Square in China: The students who rose up were not joined by others.  Military forces who were not only loyal to the regime but hostile to the students were brought in, and the students were crushed.  </p><p>
This is also what happened in Iran this week. The global media, obsessively focused on the initial demonstrators -- who were supporters of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's opponents -- failed to notice that while large, the demonstrations primarily consisted of the same type of people demonstrating. Amid the breathless reporting on the demonstrations, reporters failed to notice that the uprising was not spreading to other classes and to other areas. In constantly interviewing English-speaking demonstrators, they failed to note just how many of the demonstrators spoke English and had smartphones. The media thus did not recognize these as the signs of a failing revolution.
</p><p>Later, when Ayatollah Ali Khamenei spoke Friday and called out the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, they failed to understand that the troops -- definitely not drawn from what we might call the "Twittering classes," would remain loyal to the regime for ideological and social reasons. The troops had about as much sympathy for the demonstrators as a small-town boy from Alabama might have for a Harvard postdoc. Failing to understand the social tensions in Iran, the reporters deluded themselves into thinking they were witnessing a general uprising. But this was not St. Petersburg in 1917 or Bucharest in 1989 -- it was Tiananmen Square.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Successful revolutions have three phases .
First , a strategically located single or limited segment of society begins vocally to express resentment , asserting itself in the streets of a major city , usually the capital .
This segment is joined by other segments in the city and by segments elsewhere as the demonstration spreads to other cities and becomes more assertive , disruptive and potentially violent .
As resistance to the regime spreads , the regime deploys its military and security forces .
These forces , drawn from resisting social segments and isolated from the rest of society , turn on the regime , and stop following the regime 's orders .
This is what happened to the Shah of Iran in 1979 ; it is also what happened in Russia in 1917 or in Romania in 1989 .
Revolutions fail when no one joins the initial segment , meaning the initial demonstrators are the ones who find themselves socially isolated .
When the demonstrations do not spread to other cities , the demonstrations either peter out or the regime brings in the security and military forces -- who remain loyal to the regime and frequently personally hostile to the demonstrators -- and use force to suppress the rising to the extent necessary .
This is what happened in Tiananmen Square in China : The students who rose up were not joined by others .
Military forces who were not only loyal to the regime but hostile to the students were brought in , and the students were crushed .
This is also what happened in Iran this week .
The global media , obsessively focused on the initial demonstrators -- who were supporters of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad 's opponents -- failed to notice that while large , the demonstrations primarily consisted of the same type of people demonstrating .
Amid the breathless reporting on the demonstrations , reporters failed to notice that the uprising was not spreading to other classes and to other areas .
In constantly interviewing English-speaking demonstrators , they failed to note just how many of the demonstrators spoke English and had smartphones .
The media thus did not recognize these as the signs of a failing revolution .
Later , when Ayatollah Ali Khamenei spoke Friday and called out the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps , they failed to understand that the troops -- definitely not drawn from what we might call the " Twittering classes , " would remain loyal to the regime for ideological and social reasons .
The troops had about as much sympathy for the demonstrators as a small-town boy from Alabama might have for a Harvard postdoc .
Failing to understand the social tensions in Iran , the reporters deluded themselves into thinking they were witnessing a general uprising .
But this was not St. Petersburg in 1917 or Bucharest in 1989 -- it was Tiananmen Square .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Successful revolutions have three phases.
First, a strategically located single or limited segment of society begins vocally to express resentment, asserting itself in the streets of a major city, usually the capital.
This segment is joined by other segments in the city and by segments elsewhere as the demonstration spreads to other cities and becomes more assertive, disruptive and potentially violent.
As resistance to the regime spreads, the regime deploys its military and security forces.
These forces, drawn from resisting social segments and isolated from the rest of society, turn on the regime, and stop following the regime's orders.
This is what happened to the Shah of Iran in 1979; it is also what happened in Russia in 1917 or in Romania in 1989.
Revolutions fail when no one joins the initial segment, meaning the initial demonstrators are the ones who find themselves socially isolated.
When the demonstrations do not spread to other cities, the demonstrations either peter out or the regime brings in the security and military forces -- who remain loyal to the regime and frequently personally hostile to the demonstrators -- and use force to suppress the rising to the extent necessary.
This is what happened in Tiananmen Square in China: The students who rose up were not joined by others.
Military forces who were not only loyal to the regime but hostile to the students were brought in, and the students were crushed.
This is also what happened in Iran this week.
The global media, obsessively focused on the initial demonstrators -- who were supporters of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's opponents -- failed to notice that while large, the demonstrations primarily consisted of the same type of people demonstrating.
Amid the breathless reporting on the demonstrations, reporters failed to notice that the uprising was not spreading to other classes and to other areas.
In constantly interviewing English-speaking demonstrators, they failed to note just how many of the demonstrators spoke English and had smartphones.
The media thus did not recognize these as the signs of a failing revolution.
Later, when Ayatollah Ali Khamenei spoke Friday and called out the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, they failed to understand that the troops -- definitely not drawn from what we might call the "Twittering classes," would remain loyal to the regime for ideological and social reasons.
The troops had about as much sympathy for the demonstrators as a small-town boy from Alabama might have for a Harvard postdoc.
Failing to understand the social tensions in Iran, the reporters deluded themselves into thinking they were witnessing a general uprising.
But this was not St. Petersburg in 1917 or Bucharest in 1989 -- it was Tiananmen Square.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514367</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246292040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is the most idiotic piece of shit I had the disgust of reading here ever.</p><blockquote><div><p> the fate of a nation is determined by its people. Period.</p></div> </blockquote><p>False. Those in power, specially if they control weapons and education, control the fate of nations. It has always been this way. Read a bit of history, please.</p><blockquote><div><p> In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.</p></div></blockquote><p>Iran is not a failed state. It's a perfectly working *represive* state. And would you say that each and every Iranian is imposing himself a brutal government? Of couse not. It's an external force, external to plain people. People like you and me.</p><blockquote><div><p> If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur.</p></div> </blockquote><p>Haven't read the news? Violence is occuring RIGHT NOW.</p><blockquote><div><p> We must condemn Iranian culture.</p></div></blockquote><p>As a whole?</p><p>Sorry. I'm sick of this. I let the rest up to the readers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is the most idiotic piece of shit I had the disgust of reading here ever .
the fate of a nation is determined by its people .
Period. False .
Those in power , specially if they control weapons and education , control the fate of nations .
It has always been this way .
Read a bit of history , please .
In Iran ( and many other failed states ) , no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.Iran is not a failed state .
It 's a perfectly working * represive * state .
And would you say that each and every Iranian is imposing himself a brutal government ?
Of couse not .
It 's an external force , external to plain people .
People like you and me .
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran , violence will occur .
Have n't read the news ?
Violence is occuring RIGHT NOW .
We must condemn Iranian culture.As a whole ? Sorry .
I 'm sick of this .
I let the rest up to the readers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is the most idiotic piece of shit I had the disgust of reading here ever.
the fate of a nation is determined by its people.
Period. False.
Those in power, specially if they control weapons and education, control the fate of nations.
It has always been this way.
Read a bit of history, please.
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.Iran is not a failed state.
It's a perfectly working *represive* state.
And would you say that each and every Iranian is imposing himself a brutal government?
Of couse not.
It's an external force, external to plain people.
People like you and me.
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur.
Haven't read the news?
Violence is occuring RIGHT NOW.
We must condemn Iranian culture.As a whole?Sorry.
I'm sick of this.
I let the rest up to the readers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513701</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>moranar</author>
	<datestamp>1246288920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I heard. Since I live in another American country, this is news to me. But they have no oil.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I heard .
Since I live in another American country , this is news to me .
But they have no oil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I heard.
Since I live in another American country, this is news to me.
But they have no oil.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514141</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>jsepeta</author>
	<datestamp>1246290900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>we should condemn Iran and its corrupt leaders and mean followers. those who support democracy and the freedom of speech should NOT be condemned, but shown love and patience and help wherever we can offer it. freedom is their game to win.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>we should condemn Iran and its corrupt leaders and mean followers .
those who support democracy and the freedom of speech should NOT be condemned , but shown love and patience and help wherever we can offer it .
freedom is their game to win .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we should condemn Iran and its corrupt leaders and mean followers.
those who support democracy and the freedom of speech should NOT be condemned, but shown love and patience and help wherever we can offer it.
freedom is their game to win.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513225</id>
	<title>Government setting up TOR nodes?</title>
	<author>mrbill1234</author>
	<datestamp>1246285920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What is to stop the Iranian government setting up a plethora of TOR nodes and inspecting and tracing everything back to the source?  I understand there are alot of different levels to a TOR connection (hence the 'O'nion) - but could the 'bad guys' setting up thousands of TOR nodes around the world help them trace back to the originator?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What is to stop the Iranian government setting up a plethora of TOR nodes and inspecting and tracing everything back to the source ?
I understand there are alot of different levels to a TOR connection ( hence the 'O'nion ) - but could the 'bad guys ' setting up thousands of TOR nodes around the world help them trace back to the originator ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is to stop the Iranian government setting up a plethora of TOR nodes and inspecting and tracing everything back to the source?
I understand there are alot of different levels to a TOR connection (hence the 'O'nion) - but could the 'bad guys' setting up thousands of TOR nodes around the world help them trace back to the originator?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513313</id>
	<title>Re:Can't the eds even make a headline sentence now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246286580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why does it need to be a complete sentence?  The headline makes perfect sense: The Technology (implied "that is") Keeping Information Flowing in Iran</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why does it need to be a complete sentence ?
The headline makes perfect sense : The Technology ( implied " that is " ) Keeping Information Flowing in Iran</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why does it need to be a complete sentence?
The headline makes perfect sense: The Technology (implied "that is") Keeping Information Flowing in Iran</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512983</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515363</id>
	<title>Re:questions on setting up a TOR relay</title>
	<author>meringuoid</author>
	<datestamp>1246296420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet, but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay. What can be done about this?</i>

<p>If you truly care so much about anonymity and freedom, put your money where your mouth is. Have a second connection installed and use it exclusively for your TOR exit node. Then you won't get b&amp; from anywhere on your main connection.

</p><p>Remember that any anonymising service worth using will not censor. Anybody can use it for whatever internet uses they have which they want to be untraceable. Your TOR node is helping Iranian students organise demonstrations. It's also helping Anonymous raid furry webforums. It's also helping your friendly local paedophile get his jollies. It's helping griefers all over the world spoil everybody else's fun without fear of being identified. And of course it helps spammers send from IPs that have nothing to do with them. Small wonder you're getting banned from many websites: chances are, by means of your TOR exit node, you <i>are</i> abusing them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet , but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay .
What can be done about this ?
If you truly care so much about anonymity and freedom , put your money where your mouth is .
Have a second connection installed and use it exclusively for your TOR exit node .
Then you wo n't get b&amp; from anywhere on your main connection .
Remember that any anonymising service worth using will not censor .
Anybody can use it for whatever internet uses they have which they want to be untraceable .
Your TOR node is helping Iranian students organise demonstrations .
It 's also helping Anonymous raid furry webforums .
It 's also helping your friendly local paedophile get his jollies .
It 's helping griefers all over the world spoil everybody else 's fun without fear of being identified .
And of course it helps spammers send from IPs that have nothing to do with them .
Small wonder you 're getting banned from many websites : chances are , by means of your TOR exit node , you are abusing them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet, but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay.
What can be done about this?
If you truly care so much about anonymity and freedom, put your money where your mouth is.
Have a second connection installed and use it exclusively for your TOR exit node.
Then you won't get b&amp; from anywhere on your main connection.
Remember that any anonymising service worth using will not censor.
Anybody can use it for whatever internet uses they have which they want to be untraceable.
Your TOR node is helping Iranian students organise demonstrations.
It's also helping Anonymous raid furry webforums.
It's also helping your friendly local paedophile get his jollies.
It's helping griefers all over the world spoil everybody else's fun without fear of being identified.
And of course it helps spammers send from IPs that have nothing to do with them.
Small wonder you're getting banned from many websites: chances are, by means of your TOR exit node, you are abusing them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514787</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28516367</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>LurkerXD</author>
	<datestamp>1246300260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Haven't I seen this (word-for-word) post before...</p><p>Hmmm. Some AC really thinks he's got a point to make...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have n't I seen this ( word-for-word ) post before...Hmmm .
Some AC really thinks he 's got a point to make.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Haven't I seen this (word-for-word) post before...Hmmm.
Some AC really thinks he's got a point to make...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514113</id>
	<title>Re:Government setting up TOR nodes?</title>
	<author>GreatBunzinni</author>
	<datestamp>1246290720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>No. According to the <a href="http://www.torproject.org/overview.html.en" title="torproject.org">Tor project</a> [torproject.org], it isn't possible.<blockquote><div><p>Because each relay sees no more than one hop in the circuit, neither an eavesdropper nor a compromised relay can use traffic analysis to link the connection's source and destination.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>

So, according to that description I believe that the iranian government would only stand a chance of being able to monitor traffic if the entire network was comprised of tainted tor nodes provided by the state of Iran. So even under that scenario Iran's job would become a bit harder if suddenly more people started contributing to the tor project. At least that's my non-security expert take on that. Nonetheless I'm getting my tor node up and running.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
According to the Tor project [ torproject.org ] , it is n't possible.Because each relay sees no more than one hop in the circuit , neither an eavesdropper nor a compromised relay can use traffic analysis to link the connection 's source and destination .
So , according to that description I believe that the iranian government would only stand a chance of being able to monitor traffic if the entire network was comprised of tainted tor nodes provided by the state of Iran .
So even under that scenario Iran 's job would become a bit harder if suddenly more people started contributing to the tor project .
At least that 's my non-security expert take on that .
Nonetheless I 'm getting my tor node up and running .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
According to the Tor project [torproject.org], it isn't possible.Because each relay sees no more than one hop in the circuit, neither an eavesdropper nor a compromised relay can use traffic analysis to link the connection's source and destination.
So, according to that description I believe that the iranian government would only stand a chance of being able to monitor traffic if the entire network was comprised of tainted tor nodes provided by the state of Iran.
So even under that scenario Iran's job would become a bit harder if suddenly more people started contributing to the tor project.
At least that's my non-security expert take on that.
Nonetheless I'm getting my tor node up and running.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513225</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512989</id>
	<title>Support Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246284300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Support them by becoming a Tor relay</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Support them by becoming a Tor relay</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Support them by becoming a Tor relay</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28525893</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>gtall</author>
	<datestamp>1246359720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bullshit, the Muslim religion prepped the Iranians for religious dictatorship for over a 1000 years. What the U.S. did doesn't even register any longer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bullshit , the Muslim religion prepped the Iranians for religious dictatorship for over a 1000 years .
What the U.S. did does n't even register any longer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bullshit, the Muslim religion prepped the Iranians for religious dictatorship for over a 1000 years.
What the U.S. did doesn't even register any longer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515081</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28517079</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246302900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because Obama is compared to Jimmy Carter.</p><p>Carter's presidency was derailed by the Iran hostage crisis.  The press is rubbing their hands together with glee to see if history repeats itself.</p><p>Also, it's next to Iraq where all our soldiers are stationed.  Remember how Bush was threatening war with Iran.  This concerns Americans because we want to know whether the military is going to move on to Iran for 4-8 more years of "peace keeping" or whether they will actually ever be able to come home to their families.</p><p>What's happening in Honduras is very, very sad.  And you're right, the United States has a double standard in its foreign affairs.  Genocide in one country is ignored while in another it's deplored.  Makes you wonder why, huh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because Obama is compared to Jimmy Carter.Carter 's presidency was derailed by the Iran hostage crisis .
The press is rubbing their hands together with glee to see if history repeats itself.Also , it 's next to Iraq where all our soldiers are stationed .
Remember how Bush was threatening war with Iran .
This concerns Americans because we want to know whether the military is going to move on to Iran for 4-8 more years of " peace keeping " or whether they will actually ever be able to come home to their families.What 's happening in Honduras is very , very sad .
And you 're right , the United States has a double standard in its foreign affairs .
Genocide in one country is ignored while in another it 's deplored .
Makes you wonder why , huh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because Obama is compared to Jimmy Carter.Carter's presidency was derailed by the Iran hostage crisis.
The press is rubbing their hands together with glee to see if history repeats itself.Also, it's next to Iraq where all our soldiers are stationed.
Remember how Bush was threatening war with Iran.
This concerns Americans because we want to know whether the military is going to move on to Iran for 4-8 more years of "peace keeping" or whether they will actually ever be able to come home to their families.What's happening in Honduras is very, very sad.
And you're right, the United States has a double standard in its foreign affairs.
Genocide in one country is ignored while in another it's deplored.
Makes you wonder why, huh?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513249</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm</title>
	<author>Jurily</author>
	<datestamp>1246286040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You almost have to wonder if this scares the crap out of the powers that be. That something they created could, in theory, be something that fuels their eventual downfall, (assuming things ever got really bad....)</p></div><p>You can't really fight tanks with Twitter, you know.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You almost have to wonder if this scares the crap out of the powers that be .
That something they created could , in theory , be something that fuels their eventual downfall , ( assuming things ever got really bad.... ) You ca n't really fight tanks with Twitter , you know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You almost have to wonder if this scares the crap out of the powers that be.
That something they created could, in theory, be something that fuels their eventual downfall, (assuming things ever got really bad....)You can't really fight tanks with Twitter, you know.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513271</id>
	<title>encryption in Iran</title>
	<author>MancunianMaskMan</author>
	<datestamp>1246286340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Iran, has banned the use of encryption. It's illegal to use gpg and such like.  Good luck with TOR. Maybe they get away with it because everybody uses it.

I cannot judge on the merits of the Iranian election and wheter it represents the free will of the majority of the people (many seem to imply it doesn't but with little in terms of proof)

I don't know that the opposition in that election would be any better for said people.

But yes, let information flow. Freely and encryptedly. I hope TOR has no holes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Iran , has banned the use of encryption .
It 's illegal to use gpg and such like .
Good luck with TOR .
Maybe they get away with it because everybody uses it .
I can not judge on the merits of the Iranian election and wheter it represents the free will of the majority of the people ( many seem to imply it does n't but with little in terms of proof ) I do n't know that the opposition in that election would be any better for said people .
But yes , let information flow .
Freely and encryptedly .
I hope TOR has no holes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Iran, has banned the use of encryption.
It's illegal to use gpg and such like.
Good luck with TOR.
Maybe they get away with it because everybody uses it.
I cannot judge on the merits of the Iranian election and wheter it represents the free will of the majority of the people (many seem to imply it doesn't but with little in terms of proof)

I don't know that the opposition in that election would be any better for said people.
But yes, let information flow.
Freely and encryptedly.
I hope TOR has no holes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514365</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246292040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You conveniently dismiss the long term effects on people/mindsets/society due to decades of mangling in their affairs.</p><p>Make no mistake, current Iran is in large part the product of this mangling. Would it be better without it? I don't know. Would it be different? Hell yeah.</p><p>Speaking from one of new EU memberstates that will, I guess, suffer from burden of "homo sovieticus" mindset still for a generation or two - 20 years after regaining independence after five decades of ocupation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You conveniently dismiss the long term effects on people/mindsets/society due to decades of mangling in their affairs.Make no mistake , current Iran is in large part the product of this mangling .
Would it be better without it ?
I do n't know .
Would it be different ?
Hell yeah.Speaking from one of new EU memberstates that will , I guess , suffer from burden of " homo sovieticus " mindset still for a generation or two - 20 years after regaining independence after five decades of ocupation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You conveniently dismiss the long term effects on people/mindsets/society due to decades of mangling in their affairs.Make no mistake, current Iran is in large part the product of this mangling.
Would it be better without it?
I don't know.
Would it be different?
Hell yeah.Speaking from one of new EU memberstates that will, I guess, suffer from burden of "homo sovieticus" mindset still for a generation or two - 20 years after regaining independence after five decades of ocupation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515069</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246295220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.</p></div><p>Which they absolutely will do. Anyone who believes that Iran will not develop the bomb after completing the necessary infrastructure for nuclear power is being na&#239;ve in the extreme.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.</p></div><p>Which will then be rebuilt in such a way that nothing short of a nuclear <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive\_Ordnance\_Penetrator" title="wikipedia.org">penetrator</a> [wikipedia.org] will suffice to destroy them, assuming that they were not constructed that way in the first place, and what then? Would you call their bluff? Would you use nuclear weapons to prevent Iran from having them? That is a tough question, no doubt about it.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran. We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</p></div><p>It is perhaps more correct to say that we should condemn their government. Of course, that would take political courage and a steely nerve that I don't think we have seen in America since Ronald Reagan called out the Soviets in his "evil empire" speech. The Obama Administration was slow to criticize the Iranian regime for the election fallout and was not tough enough when they finally did speak up. If we are going to defeat the Iranian regime then we must defeat them in the court of world opinion and in the battle of ideas between the harsh brand of Islamic theocracy practiced by the Ayatollahs and the Western Democratic systems that have brought freedom, dignity, and prosperity wherever they have taken root.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.Which they absolutely will do .
Anyone who believes that Iran will not develop the bomb after completing the necessary infrastructure for nuclear power is being na   ve in the extreme.We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.Which will then be rebuilt in such a way that nothing short of a nuclear penetrator [ wikipedia.org ] will suffice to destroy them , assuming that they were not constructed that way in the first place , and what then ?
Would you call their bluff ?
Would you use nuclear weapons to prevent Iran from having them ?
That is a tough question , no doubt about it.The Iranians bear 100 \ % of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran .
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.It is perhaps more correct to say that we should condemn their government .
Of course , that would take political courage and a steely nerve that I do n't think we have seen in America since Ronald Reagan called out the Soviets in his " evil empire " speech .
The Obama Administration was slow to criticize the Iranian regime for the election fallout and was not tough enough when they finally did speak up .
If we are going to defeat the Iranian regime then we must defeat them in the court of world opinion and in the battle of ideas between the harsh brand of Islamic theocracy practiced by the Ayatollahs and the Western Democratic systems that have brought freedom , dignity , and prosperity wherever they have taken root .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.Which they absolutely will do.
Anyone who believes that Iran will not develop the bomb after completing the necessary infrastructure for nuclear power is being naïve in the extreme.We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.Which will then be rebuilt in such a way that nothing short of a nuclear penetrator [wikipedia.org] will suffice to destroy them, assuming that they were not constructed that way in the first place, and what then?
Would you call their bluff?
Would you use nuclear weapons to prevent Iran from having them?
That is a tough question, no doubt about it.The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran.
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.It is perhaps more correct to say that we should condemn their government.
Of course, that would take political courage and a steely nerve that I don't think we have seen in America since Ronald Reagan called out the Soviets in his "evil empire" speech.
The Obama Administration was slow to criticize the Iranian regime for the election fallout and was not tough enough when they finally did speak up.
If we are going to defeat the Iranian regime then we must defeat them in the court of world opinion and in the battle of ideas between the harsh brand of Islamic theocracy practiced by the Ayatollahs and the Western Democratic systems that have brought freedom, dignity, and prosperity wherever they have taken root.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513359</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm</title>
	<author>Swampash</author>
	<datestamp>1246286820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, because there'll always be companies like Nokia, and Siemens, and IBM, there to prop the powers that be up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , because there 'll always be companies like Nokia , and Siemens , and IBM , there to prop the powers that be up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, because there'll always be companies like Nokia, and Siemens, and IBM, there to prop the powers that be up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514401</id>
	<title>Did anyone else think of this...</title>
	<author>Xerolooper</author>
	<datestamp>1246292280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>when reading the post. I thought, "What does a satire news site have to do with routing?" <a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/news/fbi\_terrorist\_attack\_on\_golden" title="theonion.com">The Onion</a> [theonion.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>when reading the post .
I thought , " What does a satire news site have to do with routing ?
" The Onion [ theonion.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>when reading the post.
I thought, "What does a satire news site have to do with routing?
" The Onion [theonion.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515731</id>
	<title>TOR / Time-Warner Cable</title>
	<author>rlp</author>
	<datestamp>1246297920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I started running a TOR relay in response to the situation in Iran.  Apparently Time-Warner Cable is not TOR friendly.  I've noticed that about twice a day, my internet connection goes dead (and stays that way).  I can power-cycle the cable modem and it's good for another 10-12 hours.  Resetting my cable modem twice a day is a very small price to pay to help folks risking their lives for freedom.  Nevertheless, it is annoying.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I started running a TOR relay in response to the situation in Iran .
Apparently Time-Warner Cable is not TOR friendly .
I 've noticed that about twice a day , my internet connection goes dead ( and stays that way ) .
I can power-cycle the cable modem and it 's good for another 10-12 hours .
Resetting my cable modem twice a day is a very small price to pay to help folks risking their lives for freedom .
Nevertheless , it is annoying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I started running a TOR relay in response to the situation in Iran.
Apparently Time-Warner Cable is not TOR friendly.
I've noticed that about twice a day, my internet connection goes dead (and stays that way).
I can power-cycle the cable modem and it's good for another 10-12 hours.
Resetting my cable modem twice a day is a very small price to pay to help folks risking their lives for freedom.
Nevertheless, it is annoying.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515081</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>copponex</author>
	<datestamp>1246295280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to ask, do you think that's any of our business anymore?</p><p>We split the Korean peninsula with the Russians without consulting any Koreans. The split lead to the destruction of both countries through a proxy war in the 50s. Maybe the whole peninsula would have turned into something like North Korea. Or maybe without in any Americans in the south, the Russians would have lost interest and left the north.</p><p>And the GPs post claiming that Iranians carry the full blame for their current dictatorship is absurd. They carry some blame. But we prepped their society for dictatorship for 26 years through military and political support of the Shah, after we threw out their democratic government in 53. To take their oil profits, it turns out.</p><p>Why anyone is surprised with Islamic fundamentalism's rise in our wake is beyond me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to ask , do you think that 's any of our business anymore ? We split the Korean peninsula with the Russians without consulting any Koreans .
The split lead to the destruction of both countries through a proxy war in the 50s .
Maybe the whole peninsula would have turned into something like North Korea .
Or maybe without in any Americans in the south , the Russians would have lost interest and left the north.And the GPs post claiming that Iranians carry the full blame for their current dictatorship is absurd .
They carry some blame .
But we prepped their society for dictatorship for 26 years through military and political support of the Shah , after we threw out their democratic government in 53 .
To take their oil profits , it turns out.Why anyone is surprised with Islamic fundamentalism 's rise in our wake is beyond me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to ask, do you think that's any of our business anymore?We split the Korean peninsula with the Russians without consulting any Koreans.
The split lead to the destruction of both countries through a proxy war in the 50s.
Maybe the whole peninsula would have turned into something like North Korea.
Or maybe without in any Americans in the south, the Russians would have lost interest and left the north.And the GPs post claiming that Iranians carry the full blame for their current dictatorship is absurd.
They carry some blame.
But we prepped their society for dictatorship for 26 years through military and political support of the Shah, after we threw out their democratic government in 53.
To take their oil profits, it turns out.Why anyone is surprised with Islamic fundamentalism's rise in our wake is beyond me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513671</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28517623</id>
	<title>Re:questions on setting up a TOR relay</title>
	<author>physicsphairy</author>
	<datestamp>1246304940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet, but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay. What can be done about this?</p></div><p>Well, clearly you need the IP you browse with and the IP you offer TOR relay service from to be two separate IPs.  So you need to throw another machine into the equation.  Any service that offers SSH can be used for SSH forwarding.  You can buy space on Amazon's cloud for around 10 cents an hour and probably setup TOR there directly, or setup a proxy.  You can probably buy proxy access directly, too.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet , but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay .
What can be done about this ? Well , clearly you need the IP you browse with and the IP you offer TOR relay service from to be two separate IPs .
So you need to throw another machine into the equation .
Any service that offers SSH can be used for SSH forwarding .
You can buy space on Amazon 's cloud for around 10 cents an hour and probably setup TOR there directly , or setup a proxy .
You can probably buy proxy access directly , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet, but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay.
What can be done about this?Well, clearly you need the IP you browse with and the IP you offer TOR relay service from to be two separate IPs.
So you need to throw another machine into the equation.
Any service that offers SSH can be used for SSH forwarding.
You can buy space on Amazon's cloud for around 10 cents an hour and probably setup TOR there directly, or setup a proxy.
You can probably buy proxy access directly, too.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514787</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28524767</id>
	<title>Re:Flowing, but still risky</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246302060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to be too picky, but that is flat out wrong.</p><p>There is no encryption on data exiting the tor network to the internet (assuming HTTPS/ssl isn't used), however there is most certainly encryption both between tor nodes as well as to tor hidden services (which are identified by a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.onion string and are roughtly untracable).</p><p>You can spy on the exit nodes and look at what traffic is going out into the internet. There really is no way to stop that.</p><p>You cannot spy on who is accessing internal tor hidden services or work out who is accessing what internet site through TOR. The current attacks on this basically boil down to getting the browser to access a website not via tor, so that the tracker can work out the user's location that way.</p><p>Just reiterating: If you use a tor node, and stay within the tor network (ie. using a hidden service, etc.) AND if you disable things like java, scripting, etc. and stay IN the tor network, then there is no known way for people to track you.</p><p>I would recommend that anybody interested look at the TOR homepage or at least read the TOR wikipedia article to have a better idea as to exactly what TOR does and does not do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to be too picky , but that is flat out wrong.There is no encryption on data exiting the tor network to the internet ( assuming HTTPS/ssl is n't used ) , however there is most certainly encryption both between tor nodes as well as to tor hidden services ( which are identified by a .onion string and are roughtly untracable ) .You can spy on the exit nodes and look at what traffic is going out into the internet .
There really is no way to stop that.You can not spy on who is accessing internal tor hidden services or work out who is accessing what internet site through TOR .
The current attacks on this basically boil down to getting the browser to access a website not via tor , so that the tracker can work out the user 's location that way.Just reiterating : If you use a tor node , and stay within the tor network ( ie .
using a hidden service , etc .
) AND if you disable things like java , scripting , etc .
and stay IN the tor network , then there is no known way for people to track you.I would recommend that anybody interested look at the TOR homepage or at least read the TOR wikipedia article to have a better idea as to exactly what TOR does and does not do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to be too picky, but that is flat out wrong.There is no encryption on data exiting the tor network to the internet (assuming HTTPS/ssl isn't used), however there is most certainly encryption both between tor nodes as well as to tor hidden services (which are identified by a .onion string and are roughtly untracable).You can spy on the exit nodes and look at what traffic is going out into the internet.
There really is no way to stop that.You cannot spy on who is accessing internal tor hidden services or work out who is accessing what internet site through TOR.
The current attacks on this basically boil down to getting the browser to access a website not via tor, so that the tracker can work out the user's location that way.Just reiterating: If you use a tor node, and stay within the tor network (ie.
using a hidden service, etc.
) AND if you disable things like java, scripting, etc.
and stay IN the tor network, then there is no known way for people to track you.I would recommend that anybody interested look at the TOR homepage or at least read the TOR wikipedia article to have a better idea as to exactly what TOR does and does not do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515221</id>
	<title>Grotesquely ugly? Sure. Truth? Not so much.</title>
	<author>DragonWriter</author>
	<datestamp>1246296000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., the army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people.</p></div> </blockquote><p>This is true in the general trivial sense that many of the ideal principles in social studies (whether political science, sociology, or economics) are true, but (as is often the case with such ideal statements) often false in practice. Like many such generalities, in really is only true in situations of universal perfect information: preferences which are general throughout the population but are not known to be general throughout the population are far less likely to be realized. It also is true <i>in the long term</i>; even widely recognized strong general preferences may not be <i>immediately</i> realized.</p><blockquote><div><p>After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market.</p></div></blockquote><p>This is false in many respects; many Eastern European countries began making this transition before the Red Army started packing up and leaving (and certainly before the Soviet Union and later Russia stopped <i>trying</i> to influence the region, which in many cases they haven't stopped doing), and not all countries in Eastern Europe have established "genuine democracy and a free market", though most of them are closer on both respects than they were during the Cold War.</p><blockquote><div><p>In Iran (and many other failed states),</p></div> </blockquote><p>Iran is not a failed state. Somalia is a failed state. Afghanistan has been a failed state, and arguably still is. Iran is just a state where the West (and, for that matter, many of its own people) just don't like the regime. There is a big difference.</p><blockquote><div><p>no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.</p></div> </blockquote><p>True so far as it goes.</p><blockquote><div><p>Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government. We must condemn Iranian culture. Its product is the authoritarian state.</p></div></blockquote><p>This, OTOH, is less true. While certainly, Iranian culture (like many others) includes a tradition of respect for religious authority which aided the rise to power and the maintenance of the current regime, the principal reason the current regime rose to power was anger at the repression of the previous regime (which was externally imposed, by, principally, the US and the UK.) Like many revolutionary movements against repressive regimes, it included both more authoritarian and more moderate factions, and, as is almost invariably the case in successful revolutionary movements -- generally due to the public's fear of immediate threats faced by the nation from either defenders of the old regime or its external supporters, and the case of Iran was no exception -- the more authoritarian faction was ininitially dominant. The high degree of external threat the Iranian regime has managed to convince its public it faced since its inception (factually supported, even if the threat was exaggerated -- Iraq launched a war against it very shortly after it came to power backed by the wealthy Arab states, the US joined that war, the US remained directly threatening to Iran even after the US split with Iraq) helped suppress internal splits.</p><p>However, even given that, Iran has faced a strong reform movement largely centered around the same ideas (and, in part, the same people) that were the more moderate faction in the revolutionary movement for many years, which has only been suppressed by the regime carefullly assuring that positions of power and influence are given to loyalists, and doing everything possible to strike a balance between providing an appearance of responsiveness to keep the pressure for reform working within the system while systematically -- by controlling who can run for elections, controlling the media, and, where necessary, more direct action against dissidents -- suppressing the appearance of dissent so that those who disagree cannot network effectively and cannot realize how wide support for their ideas is.</p><blockquote><div><p> If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence.</p></div> </blockquote><p>It is possible that it might happen without violence, and it is quite possible that if an overwhelming majority support those things and a well-organized and well-armed minority oppose them, then the majority will either fail to acheive any real democracy, or will do so only through a conflict in which there is rather extreme violence.</p><p>Its also possible that if the overwhelming majority of Iranians support democracy and human rights (whether or not that means "peace with Israel" -- from a certain perspective, support for democracy and human rights could lead, itself, to opposition to such a course barring changes in the policies of the Israeli government), and they succeed in realizing that with or without violence, that they will produce a very real democracy that is not a "liberal Western" one.</p><blockquote><div><p>The Iranians created this horrible society. It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons. We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.</p></div> </blockquote><p>Based on...what, exactly? The present Iranian regime, horrible as it is -- <i>unlike</i> the US, one might note -- has never initiated a war of aggression against another nation.</p><blockquote><div><p>Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans. They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people. Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West.</p></div></blockquote><p>Vietnam long had allies with nuclear weapons pointed at the West (and China, after the Sino-Soviet split), and so had far less reason, from a purely geopolitical perspective, to seek nuclear weapons as counterbalance to those possessed by its Western "opponents". It also -- in both the war with the US and the subsequent war with China -- experienced a rather clear demonstration of the limited utility of nuclear weapons in deterring non-nuclear attack.</p><p>Iran, OTOH, has no ally like the Soviet Union, and faces at least one hostile regional power with nuclear weapons and long belligerence from the more distant nuclear powers. Therefore, even given the limitations of nuclear weapons in deterring non-nuclear attacks, it has a pretty strong incentive to acquire nuclear arms.</p><blockquote><div><p>Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society. They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.</p></div></blockquote><p>The government of Vietnam remains a single-party state, with a continued repressive human rights record. Prior to the recent election and subsequent crackdown in Iran, Iran was probably substantially more free than Vietnam, with seriously competing alternative parties in meaningful elections (though, of course, the freedom here is limited by the role of the Guardian council); and the only reason there has been a crackdown is because the regime sees the current reform movement (and probably rightly so) as a broadly supported movement that poses a serious threat to the fundamental structure of the authoritarian regime (as well as to the personal power of its current leaders.) That is, the current crackdown -- and the efforts, particularly, to stop the ideas of the reformers from being communicated -- is clearly a result of the fact that the narrow power elite running the present regime fears that the exact kind of overwhelming popular opposition that you point to be necessary to create a democratic regime may be on the brink of coalescing, and it is trying to do everything possible to prevent that from happening.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the absence of an external interfering force ( e. g. , the army of the Soviet Union ) , the fate of a nation is determined by its people .
This is true in the general trivial sense that many of the ideal principles in social studies ( whether political science , sociology , or economics ) are true , but ( as is often the case with such ideal statements ) often false in practice .
Like many such generalities , in really is only true in situations of universal perfect information : preferences which are general throughout the population but are not known to be general throughout the population are far less likely to be realized .
It also is true in the long term ; even widely recognized strong general preferences may not be immediately realized.After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe , the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market.This is false in many respects ; many Eastern European countries began making this transition before the Red Army started packing up and leaving ( and certainly before the Soviet Union and later Russia stopped trying to influence the region , which in many cases they have n't stopped doing ) , and not all countries in Eastern Europe have established " genuine democracy and a free market " , though most of them are closer on both respects than they were during the Cold War.In Iran ( and many other failed states ) , Iran is not a failed state .
Somalia is a failed state .
Afghanistan has been a failed state , and arguably still is .
Iran is just a state where the West ( and , for that matter , many of its own people ) just do n't like the regime .
There is a big difference.no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians .
True so far as it goes.Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government .
We must condemn Iranian culture .
Its product is the authoritarian state.This , OTOH , is less true .
While certainly , Iranian culture ( like many others ) includes a tradition of respect for religious authority which aided the rise to power and the maintenance of the current regime , the principal reason the current regime rose to power was anger at the repression of the previous regime ( which was externally imposed , by , principally , the US and the UK .
) Like many revolutionary movements against repressive regimes , it included both more authoritarian and more moderate factions , and , as is almost invariably the case in successful revolutionary movements -- generally due to the public 's fear of immediate threats faced by the nation from either defenders of the old regime or its external supporters , and the case of Iran was no exception -- the more authoritarian faction was ininitially dominant .
The high degree of external threat the Iranian regime has managed to convince its public it faced since its inception ( factually supported , even if the threat was exaggerated -- Iraq launched a war against it very shortly after it came to power backed by the wealthy Arab states , the US joined that war , the US remained directly threatening to Iran even after the US split with Iraq ) helped suppress internal splits.However , even given that , Iran has faced a strong reform movement largely centered around the same ideas ( and , in part , the same people ) that were the more moderate faction in the revolutionary movement for many years , which has only been suppressed by the regime carefullly assuring that positions of power and influence are given to loyalists , and doing everything possible to strike a balance between providing an appearance of responsiveness to keep the pressure for reform working within the system while systematically -- by controlling who can run for elections , controlling the media , and , where necessary , more direct action against dissidents -- suppressing the appearance of dissent so that those who disagree can not network effectively and can not realize how wide support for their ideas is .
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians ( like the overwhelming majority of Poles ) truly support democracy , human rights , and peace with Israel , then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence .
It is possible that it might happen without violence , and it is quite possible that if an overwhelming majority support those things and a well-organized and well-armed minority oppose them , then the majority will either fail to acheive any real democracy , or will do so only through a conflict in which there is rather extreme violence.Its also possible that if the overwhelming majority of Iranians support democracy and human rights ( whether or not that means " peace with Israel " -- from a certain perspective , support for democracy and human rights could lead , itself , to opposition to such a course barring changes in the policies of the Israeli government ) , and they succeed in realizing that with or without violence , that they will produce a very real democracy that is not a " liberal Western " one.The Iranians created this horrible society .
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons .
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities .
Based on...what , exactly ?
The present Iranian regime , horrible as it is -- unlike the US , one might note -- has never initiated a war of aggression against another nation.Note that , 40 years ago , Vietnam suffered a worse fate ( than the Iranians ) at the hands of the Americans .
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange , poisoning both the land and the people .
Yet , the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge ( by , e. g. , building a nuclear bomb ) against the West.Vietnam long had allies with nuclear weapons pointed at the West ( and China , after the Sino-Soviet split ) , and so had far less reason , from a purely geopolitical perspective , to seek nuclear weapons as counterbalance to those possessed by its Western " opponents " .
It also -- in both the war with the US and the subsequent war with China -- experienced a rather clear demonstration of the limited utility of nuclear weapons in deterring non-nuclear attack.Iran , OTOH , has no ally like the Soviet Union , and faces at least one hostile regional power with nuclear weapons and long belligerence from the more distant nuclear powers .
Therefore , even given the limitations of nuclear weapons in deterring non-nuclear attacks , it has a pretty strong incentive to acquire nuclear arms.Rather , the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society .
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.The government of Vietnam remains a single-party state , with a continued repressive human rights record .
Prior to the recent election and subsequent crackdown in Iran , Iran was probably substantially more free than Vietnam , with seriously competing alternative parties in meaningful elections ( though , of course , the freedom here is limited by the role of the Guardian council ) ; and the only reason there has been a crackdown is because the regime sees the current reform movement ( and probably rightly so ) as a broadly supported movement that poses a serious threat to the fundamental structure of the authoritarian regime ( as well as to the personal power of its current leaders .
) That is , the current crackdown -- and the efforts , particularly , to stop the ideas of the reformers from being communicated -- is clearly a result of the fact that the narrow power elite running the present regime fears that the exact kind of overwhelming popular opposition that you point to be necessary to create a democratic regime may be on the brink of coalescing , and it is trying to do everything possible to prevent that from happening .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., the army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people.
This is true in the general trivial sense that many of the ideal principles in social studies (whether political science, sociology, or economics) are true, but (as is often the case with such ideal statements) often false in practice.
Like many such generalities, in really is only true in situations of universal perfect information: preferences which are general throughout the population but are not known to be general throughout the population are far less likely to be realized.
It also is true in the long term; even widely recognized strong general preferences may not be immediately realized.After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market.This is false in many respects; many Eastern European countries began making this transition before the Red Army started packing up and leaving (and certainly before the Soviet Union and later Russia stopped trying to influence the region, which in many cases they haven't stopped doing), and not all countries in Eastern Europe have established "genuine democracy and a free market", though most of them are closer on both respects than they were during the Cold War.In Iran (and many other failed states), Iran is not a failed state.
Somalia is a failed state.
Afghanistan has been a failed state, and arguably still is.
Iran is just a state where the West (and, for that matter, many of its own people) just don't like the regime.
There is a big difference.no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.
True so far as it goes.Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government.
We must condemn Iranian culture.
Its product is the authoritarian state.This, OTOH, is less true.
While certainly, Iranian culture (like many others) includes a tradition of respect for religious authority which aided the rise to power and the maintenance of the current regime, the principal reason the current regime rose to power was anger at the repression of the previous regime (which was externally imposed, by, principally, the US and the UK.
) Like many revolutionary movements against repressive regimes, it included both more authoritarian and more moderate factions, and, as is almost invariably the case in successful revolutionary movements -- generally due to the public's fear of immediate threats faced by the nation from either defenders of the old regime or its external supporters, and the case of Iran was no exception -- the more authoritarian faction was ininitially dominant.
The high degree of external threat the Iranian regime has managed to convince its public it faced since its inception (factually supported, even if the threat was exaggerated -- Iraq launched a war against it very shortly after it came to power backed by the wealthy Arab states, the US joined that war, the US remained directly threatening to Iran even after the US split with Iraq) helped suppress internal splits.However, even given that, Iran has faced a strong reform movement largely centered around the same ideas (and, in part, the same people) that were the more moderate faction in the revolutionary movement for many years, which has only been suppressed by the regime carefullly assuring that positions of power and influence are given to loyalists, and doing everything possible to strike a balance between providing an appearance of responsiveness to keep the pressure for reform working within the system while systematically -- by controlling who can run for elections, controlling the media, and, where necessary, more direct action against dissidents -- suppressing the appearance of dissent so that those who disagree cannot network effectively and cannot realize how wide support for their ideas is.
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence.
It is possible that it might happen without violence, and it is quite possible that if an overwhelming majority support those things and a well-organized and well-armed minority oppose them, then the majority will either fail to acheive any real democracy, or will do so only through a conflict in which there is rather extreme violence.Its also possible that if the overwhelming majority of Iranians support democracy and human rights (whether or not that means "peace with Israel" -- from a certain perspective, support for democracy and human rights could lead, itself, to opposition to such a course barring changes in the policies of the Israeli government), and they succeed in realizing that with or without violence, that they will produce a very real democracy that is not a "liberal Western" one.The Iranians created this horrible society.
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
Based on...what, exactly?
The present Iranian regime, horrible as it is -- unlike the US, one might note -- has never initiated a war of aggression against another nation.Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans.
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people.
Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West.Vietnam long had allies with nuclear weapons pointed at the West (and China, after the Sino-Soviet split), and so had far less reason, from a purely geopolitical perspective, to seek nuclear weapons as counterbalance to those possessed by its Western "opponents".
It also -- in both the war with the US and the subsequent war with China -- experienced a rather clear demonstration of the limited utility of nuclear weapons in deterring non-nuclear attack.Iran, OTOH, has no ally like the Soviet Union, and faces at least one hostile regional power with nuclear weapons and long belligerence from the more distant nuclear powers.
Therefore, even given the limitations of nuclear weapons in deterring non-nuclear attacks, it has a pretty strong incentive to acquire nuclear arms.Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society.
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.The government of Vietnam remains a single-party state, with a continued repressive human rights record.
Prior to the recent election and subsequent crackdown in Iran, Iran was probably substantially more free than Vietnam, with seriously competing alternative parties in meaningful elections (though, of course, the freedom here is limited by the role of the Guardian council); and the only reason there has been a crackdown is because the regime sees the current reform movement (and probably rightly so) as a broadly supported movement that poses a serious threat to the fundamental structure of the authoritarian regime (as well as to the personal power of its current leaders.
) That is, the current crackdown -- and the efforts, particularly, to stop the ideas of the reformers from being communicated -- is clearly a result of the fact that the narrow power elite running the present regime fears that the exact kind of overwhelming popular opposition that you point to be necessary to create a democratic regime may be on the brink of coalescing, and it is trying to do everything possible to prevent that from happening.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28519879</id>
	<title>Re:Support Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246270140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I experienced the same issues.  Unfortunately, anyone running a Tor exit node goes on the <a href="http://torstatus.kgprog.com/" title="kgprog.com" rel="nofollow">list of active Tor exit nodes</a> [kgprog.com], which is visible to anyone.</p><p>As you said, many sites will block your IP if you are on this list -- maybe not explicitly because you are a Tor user, but perhaps based on blacklists they rely on third parties to come up with.  The problem was first brought to my attention when my girlfriend complained she couldn't watch videos on NBC.com.  I also noticed that The Pirate Bay did not seem to accept torrent uploads from Tor exit nodes.</p><p>However, the most annoying issue was that irc.freenode.org no longer allowed me to connect.  They address Tor <a href="http://freenode.net/irc\_servers.shtml#tor" title="freenode.net" rel="nofollow">here</a> [freenode.net], encouraging people to use their hidden service.  Unfortunately, after following their instructions it did not work, and an email for help received no reply (yes, I could have/should have done more to contact the staff for help -- whatever).</p><p>I'm down for the struggle, but putting me on a public list of proxies so I can be, as you said, effectively blackmailed is not a good recipe for encouraging participation.</p><p>If you want to experiment with darknets and avoid being blacklisted, check out <a href="http://www.i2p2.de/" title="i2p2.de" rel="nofollow">I2P</a> [i2p2.de].  While you can reach the Internet at large via a few exit proxies, I2P is really meant to be self-contained.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I experienced the same issues .
Unfortunately , anyone running a Tor exit node goes on the list of active Tor exit nodes [ kgprog.com ] , which is visible to anyone.As you said , many sites will block your IP if you are on this list -- maybe not explicitly because you are a Tor user , but perhaps based on blacklists they rely on third parties to come up with .
The problem was first brought to my attention when my girlfriend complained she could n't watch videos on NBC.com .
I also noticed that The Pirate Bay did not seem to accept torrent uploads from Tor exit nodes.However , the most annoying issue was that irc.freenode.org no longer allowed me to connect .
They address Tor here [ freenode.net ] , encouraging people to use their hidden service .
Unfortunately , after following their instructions it did not work , and an email for help received no reply ( yes , I could have/should have done more to contact the staff for help -- whatever ) .I 'm down for the struggle , but putting me on a public list of proxies so I can be , as you said , effectively blackmailed is not a good recipe for encouraging participation.If you want to experiment with darknets and avoid being blacklisted , check out I2P [ i2p2.de ] .
While you can reach the Internet at large via a few exit proxies , I2P is really meant to be self-contained .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I experienced the same issues.
Unfortunately, anyone running a Tor exit node goes on the list of active Tor exit nodes [kgprog.com], which is visible to anyone.As you said, many sites will block your IP if you are on this list -- maybe not explicitly because you are a Tor user, but perhaps based on blacklists they rely on third parties to come up with.
The problem was first brought to my attention when my girlfriend complained she couldn't watch videos on NBC.com.
I also noticed that The Pirate Bay did not seem to accept torrent uploads from Tor exit nodes.However, the most annoying issue was that irc.freenode.org no longer allowed me to connect.
They address Tor here [freenode.net], encouraging people to use their hidden service.
Unfortunately, after following their instructions it did not work, and an email for help received no reply (yes, I could have/should have done more to contact the staff for help -- whatever).I'm down for the struggle, but putting me on a public list of proxies so I can be, as you said, effectively blackmailed is not a good recipe for encouraging participation.If you want to experiment with darknets and avoid being blacklisted, check out I2P [i2p2.de].
While you can reach the Internet at large via a few exit proxies, I2P is really meant to be self-contained.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514813</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513739</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>basil64</author>
	<datestamp>1246289040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well spoken. Without sympathetic elements in the ruling class- like the Revolutionary Guard or a significant number of clerics- the protests simply cannot hold up. Unless of course, every single citizen, man woman and child, was willing to take to the streets...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well spoken .
Without sympathetic elements in the ruling class- like the Revolutionary Guard or a significant number of clerics- the protests simply can not hold up .
Unless of course , every single citizen , man woman and child , was willing to take to the streets.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well spoken.
Without sympathetic elements in the ruling class- like the Revolutionary Guard or a significant number of clerics- the protests simply cannot hold up.
Unless of course, every single citizen, man woman and child, was willing to take to the streets...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513525</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513817</id>
	<title>Re:Zmodem?</title>
	<author>Dr. Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1246289340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Telephone records are interesting.  The government just has to look at who in Iran is talking to people outside of Iran.  Then they look at little closer, or just beat them for good measure.

</p><p>I have friends in Iran who I'm afraid to contact.  We've sent a couple emails saying little more than "I'm well".  Anything more is risky.

</p><p>In parts of the world where posession of encryption technology is punishable, and the government has a "secret police", there's not much you can do which doesn't involve stenography.  Stenographic technology is not widespread enough and the nature of it is chatty enough that in countries where bandwidth is scarce, it's not all that useful.

</p><p>It's all very upsetting.

</p><p>Refrain from expressing ideas about how to circumvent this.  The Iranian government of course can read this forum too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Telephone records are interesting .
The government just has to look at who in Iran is talking to people outside of Iran .
Then they look at little closer , or just beat them for good measure .
I have friends in Iran who I 'm afraid to contact .
We 've sent a couple emails saying little more than " I 'm well " .
Anything more is risky .
In parts of the world where posession of encryption technology is punishable , and the government has a " secret police " , there 's not much you can do which does n't involve stenography .
Stenographic technology is not widespread enough and the nature of it is chatty enough that in countries where bandwidth is scarce , it 's not all that useful .
It 's all very upsetting .
Refrain from expressing ideas about how to circumvent this .
The Iranian government of course can read this forum too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Telephone records are interesting.
The government just has to look at who in Iran is talking to people outside of Iran.
Then they look at little closer, or just beat them for good measure.
I have friends in Iran who I'm afraid to contact.
We've sent a couple emails saying little more than "I'm well".
Anything more is risky.
In parts of the world where posession of encryption technology is punishable, and the government has a "secret police", there's not much you can do which doesn't involve stenography.
Stenographic technology is not widespread enough and the nature of it is chatty enough that in countries where bandwidth is scarce, it's not all that useful.
It's all very upsetting.
Refrain from expressing ideas about how to circumvent this.
The Iranian government of course can read this forum too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513437</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513775</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246289160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am following the issue in Honduras, and honestly, it doesn't appear as cut and dry as it looks.  In Iran, at least the situation seems to be a lot more clear.  We may not know for certain that the election was rigged, but the timing seems impossible for counting.  Additionally, Iran is at best, a very limited democracy overtopped by a religiously motivated dictatorship, so these protests seem to be very compelling.</p><p>In Honduras, the president, Zelaya, was attempting to order a referendum which was designated to be illegal by the Supreme Court and the Congress.  Supposedly, the military was directed to make the arrest by those bodies.</p><p>Of course, under their constitution, I doubt that those branches have that power, but on the other hand, the Hondurans failed to put an impeachment clause in their constitution that they could use.  When the Congress and the Supreme Court in the US are against the Executive at that level, he'd have been legally impeached and removed.  This does not appear to have been an option for those branches in Honduras and I got the feeling that the police are on the side of the President.</p><p>If you believe the opposition, the vote was a lead up to Chavez-esque referendum to remove or change the term limits in the Constitution for the President.  While sketchy, this is not illegal in and of itself in many places.  However, Honduras apparently also has the interesting constitutional provision that it is even illegal to propose a change to that provision if you are an office holder.  One assumes that this is due to their bad experiences with people staying in office too long.</p><p>On the other hand, I believe the referendum was only for the purposes of calling a "constitutional assembly" to rewrite the Constitution, so the legal extrapolation they made is possibly not warranted, even if they may well be right about his intentions.</p><p>As I said, I am actually surprised that the world is supporting Zelaya as uncritically as they are, but there may be no choice in the matter.  In this case, the Hondurans look to have be in a sticky mess constitutionally which no one wants to get involved in.  I think that the major issue is that the military was involved, which is certainly bad news, particularly in that part of the world.  Its hard for anyone to get behind a military action to remove a legally elected office holder, even if he may be up to something.</p><p>However, Zelaya seems to have troubling parallels to Hugo Chavez in his way of dealing with issues, and there are some suggestions that the referendum would not have been entirely without governmental pressure to vote for the provision, which would then be taken as a plebiscite to secure power for the President's entire program, including the removal of term limits.  Certainly the Supreme Court and the Congress could be in the wrong here, but I am inclined to distrust Zelaya's motives as well.  This may not be an actual coup, even if the military involvement tends to make it look that way.</p><p>Or it could be a coup by a corrupt or overreaching Congress and Supreme Court with military involvement.</p><p>This sort of ambiguity does not make for good news print, which is why I am unsurprised that it is not being featured.  That and the fact that Honduras is not a state supporter or terrorism nor does it appear to have a nuclear program, peaceful or not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am following the issue in Honduras , and honestly , it does n't appear as cut and dry as it looks .
In Iran , at least the situation seems to be a lot more clear .
We may not know for certain that the election was rigged , but the timing seems impossible for counting .
Additionally , Iran is at best , a very limited democracy overtopped by a religiously motivated dictatorship , so these protests seem to be very compelling.In Honduras , the president , Zelaya , was attempting to order a referendum which was designated to be illegal by the Supreme Court and the Congress .
Supposedly , the military was directed to make the arrest by those bodies.Of course , under their constitution , I doubt that those branches have that power , but on the other hand , the Hondurans failed to put an impeachment clause in their constitution that they could use .
When the Congress and the Supreme Court in the US are against the Executive at that level , he 'd have been legally impeached and removed .
This does not appear to have been an option for those branches in Honduras and I got the feeling that the police are on the side of the President.If you believe the opposition , the vote was a lead up to Chavez-esque referendum to remove or change the term limits in the Constitution for the President .
While sketchy , this is not illegal in and of itself in many places .
However , Honduras apparently also has the interesting constitutional provision that it is even illegal to propose a change to that provision if you are an office holder .
One assumes that this is due to their bad experiences with people staying in office too long.On the other hand , I believe the referendum was only for the purposes of calling a " constitutional assembly " to rewrite the Constitution , so the legal extrapolation they made is possibly not warranted , even if they may well be right about his intentions.As I said , I am actually surprised that the world is supporting Zelaya as uncritically as they are , but there may be no choice in the matter .
In this case , the Hondurans look to have be in a sticky mess constitutionally which no one wants to get involved in .
I think that the major issue is that the military was involved , which is certainly bad news , particularly in that part of the world .
Its hard for anyone to get behind a military action to remove a legally elected office holder , even if he may be up to something.However , Zelaya seems to have troubling parallels to Hugo Chavez in his way of dealing with issues , and there are some suggestions that the referendum would not have been entirely without governmental pressure to vote for the provision , which would then be taken as a plebiscite to secure power for the President 's entire program , including the removal of term limits .
Certainly the Supreme Court and the Congress could be in the wrong here , but I am inclined to distrust Zelaya 's motives as well .
This may not be an actual coup , even if the military involvement tends to make it look that way.Or it could be a coup by a corrupt or overreaching Congress and Supreme Court with military involvement.This sort of ambiguity does not make for good news print , which is why I am unsurprised that it is not being featured .
That and the fact that Honduras is not a state supporter or terrorism nor does it appear to have a nuclear program , peaceful or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am following the issue in Honduras, and honestly, it doesn't appear as cut and dry as it looks.
In Iran, at least the situation seems to be a lot more clear.
We may not know for certain that the election was rigged, but the timing seems impossible for counting.
Additionally, Iran is at best, a very limited democracy overtopped by a religiously motivated dictatorship, so these protests seem to be very compelling.In Honduras, the president, Zelaya, was attempting to order a referendum which was designated to be illegal by the Supreme Court and the Congress.
Supposedly, the military was directed to make the arrest by those bodies.Of course, under their constitution, I doubt that those branches have that power, but on the other hand, the Hondurans failed to put an impeachment clause in their constitution that they could use.
When the Congress and the Supreme Court in the US are against the Executive at that level, he'd have been legally impeached and removed.
This does not appear to have been an option for those branches in Honduras and I got the feeling that the police are on the side of the President.If you believe the opposition, the vote was a lead up to Chavez-esque referendum to remove or change the term limits in the Constitution for the President.
While sketchy, this is not illegal in and of itself in many places.
However, Honduras apparently also has the interesting constitutional provision that it is even illegal to propose a change to that provision if you are an office holder.
One assumes that this is due to their bad experiences with people staying in office too long.On the other hand, I believe the referendum was only for the purposes of calling a "constitutional assembly" to rewrite the Constitution, so the legal extrapolation they made is possibly not warranted, even if they may well be right about his intentions.As I said, I am actually surprised that the world is supporting Zelaya as uncritically as they are, but there may be no choice in the matter.
In this case, the Hondurans look to have be in a sticky mess constitutionally which no one wants to get involved in.
I think that the major issue is that the military was involved, which is certainly bad news, particularly in that part of the world.
Its hard for anyone to get behind a military action to remove a legally elected office holder, even if he may be up to something.However, Zelaya seems to have troubling parallels to Hugo Chavez in his way of dealing with issues, and there are some suggestions that the referendum would not have been entirely without governmental pressure to vote for the provision, which would then be taken as a plebiscite to secure power for the President's entire program, including the removal of term limits.
Certainly the Supreme Court and the Congress could be in the wrong here, but I am inclined to distrust Zelaya's motives as well.
This may not be an actual coup, even if the military involvement tends to make it look that way.Or it could be a coup by a corrupt or overreaching Congress and Supreme Court with military involvement.This sort of ambiguity does not make for good news print, which is why I am unsurprised that it is not being featured.
That and the fact that Honduras is not a state supporter or terrorism nor does it appear to have a nuclear program, peaceful or not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28530841</id>
	<title>Re:Flowing, but still risky</title>
	<author>Psyborgue</author>
	<datestamp>1246384800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Tor is not vulnerable to an attack like that.  All traffic going through a tor node is encrypted (among other reasons).  There are only theoretical timing based vulnerabilities that aren't really applicable on a large network such as the internet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tor is not vulnerable to an attack like that .
All traffic going through a tor node is encrypted ( among other reasons ) .
There are only theoretical timing based vulnerabilities that are n't really applicable on a large network such as the internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tor is not vulnerable to an attack like that.
All traffic going through a tor node is encrypted (among other reasons).
There are only theoretical timing based vulnerabilities that aren't really applicable on a large network such as the internet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513167</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm</title>
	<author>BenEnglishAtHome</author>
	<datestamp>1246285440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p><i>...something they created could...be something that fuels their...downfall...</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>The U.S. government has long-since established <a href="http://www.odcmp.com/" title="odcmp.com">some mechanisms</a> [odcmp.com] that would accomplish exactly that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...something they created could...be something that fuels their...downfall... The U.S. government has long-since established some mechanisms [ odcmp.com ] that would accomplish exactly that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...something they created could...be something that fuels their...downfall... The U.S. government has long-since established some mechanisms [odcmp.com] that would accomplish exactly that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512987</id>
	<title>How about some real support ? Democrats ? Obambi ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246284300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why aren't these people getting support from the real U.S. Navy ?</p><p>Oh right<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... there's a "democratic" government in the "land of the free". As we all know, the name "democratic" name is, like most names, meant to compensate for something.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why are n't these people getting support from the real U.S. Navy ? Oh right ... there 's a " democratic " government in the " land of the free " .
As we all know , the name " democratic " name is , like most names , meant to compensate for something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why aren't these people getting support from the real U.S. Navy ?Oh right ... there's a "democratic" government in the "land of the free".
As we all know, the name "democratic" name is, like most names, meant to compensate for something.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28516591</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1246301040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For all Iranians, I must say: <strong>Stop your fucking hatespeech, asshole!</strong></p><p>If you had watched The Daily Show, you would have some insight into Iran.</p><p>If I would use your arguments, I could say that the Americans support the murdering and killing of an many people as on 9/11 <em>every week</em>, in foreign countries. And that they are all the bible-centric rednecks that we laugh about.</p><p>But I do not. I know that most Americans are good and kind people. Just as most Iranians. Or most people of <em>any</em> country.<br>It always is a small group of loud people (either good[=on your side] or assholes[=not on your side]), dominating the country, because for the rest it is just not worth the effort. (Laziness is a concept that does ignore the basic human nature of inertia end efficiency.) It is exactly the same thing that keeps people with the IE, or other things they do not like.</p><p>That it why it (only) needs two things to change a country: 1. a small group of very loud people, 2. a change in mind of the large mass.</p><p>By the way: Democracy is not the all-solving wonderful thing you paint it as. Look at how it fails in the US, and many European countries right now (keyword: censorship).<br>It is a good start. But just as communism, it again ignores basic human nature: We primarily work for ourselves. Which makes leadership a conflict of interest. Always.<br>We could not solve this problem until now. But now we can use computers and all people themselves to replace government. Which is what metagovernmnet.org tries to do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For all Iranians , I must say : Stop your fucking hatespeech , asshole ! If you had watched The Daily Show , you would have some insight into Iran.If I would use your arguments , I could say that the Americans support the murdering and killing of an many people as on 9/11 every week , in foreign countries .
And that they are all the bible-centric rednecks that we laugh about.But I do not .
I know that most Americans are good and kind people .
Just as most Iranians .
Or most people of any country.It always is a small group of loud people ( either good [ = on your side ] or assholes [ = not on your side ] ) , dominating the country , because for the rest it is just not worth the effort .
( Laziness is a concept that does ignore the basic human nature of inertia end efficiency .
) It is exactly the same thing that keeps people with the IE , or other things they do not like.That it why it ( only ) needs two things to change a country : 1. a small group of very loud people , 2. a change in mind of the large mass.By the way : Democracy is not the all-solving wonderful thing you paint it as .
Look at how it fails in the US , and many European countries right now ( keyword : censorship ) .It is a good start .
But just as communism , it again ignores basic human nature : We primarily work for ourselves .
Which makes leadership a conflict of interest .
Always.We could not solve this problem until now .
But now we can use computers and all people themselves to replace government .
Which is what metagovernmnet.org tries to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For all Iranians, I must say: Stop your fucking hatespeech, asshole!If you had watched The Daily Show, you would have some insight into Iran.If I would use your arguments, I could say that the Americans support the murdering and killing of an many people as on 9/11 every week, in foreign countries.
And that they are all the bible-centric rednecks that we laugh about.But I do not.
I know that most Americans are good and kind people.
Just as most Iranians.
Or most people of any country.It always is a small group of loud people (either good[=on your side] or assholes[=not on your side]), dominating the country, because for the rest it is just not worth the effort.
(Laziness is a concept that does ignore the basic human nature of inertia end efficiency.
) It is exactly the same thing that keeps people with the IE, or other things they do not like.That it why it (only) needs two things to change a country: 1. a small group of very loud people, 2. a change in mind of the large mass.By the way: Democracy is not the all-solving wonderful thing you paint it as.
Look at how it fails in the US, and many European countries right now (keyword: censorship).It is a good start.
But just as communism, it again ignores basic human nature: We primarily work for ourselves.
Which makes leadership a conflict of interest.
Always.We could not solve this problem until now.
But now we can use computers and all people themselves to replace government.
Which is what metagovernmnet.org tries to do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515291</id>
	<title>Re:Flowing, but still risky</title>
	<author>pdxp</author>
	<datestamp>1246296240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The only thing the Iran regime would need to do [...] would be to setup a lot of TOR nodes and analyze the traffic going through them</p></div><p>This is exactly what TOR was designed to protect against. Even a large scale compromise fails to do two things:<br>
<br>
1. Compromise user identity (e.g. originating IP address), and<br>
2. Analyze packets non-discretely (e.g. as streams).
<br> <br>
So the most they'd be able to determine is how much traffic is coming from what appear to be other relays, and also that it is encrypted. They probably wouldn't even be able to decrypt a single block of data - it's like solving puzzles within puzzles, where the shapes of the pieces are constantly changing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only thing the Iran regime would need to do [ ... ] would be to setup a lot of TOR nodes and analyze the traffic going through themThis is exactly what TOR was designed to protect against .
Even a large scale compromise fails to do two things : 1 .
Compromise user identity ( e.g .
originating IP address ) , and 2 .
Analyze packets non-discretely ( e.g .
as streams ) .
So the most they 'd be able to determine is how much traffic is coming from what appear to be other relays , and also that it is encrypted .
They probably would n't even be able to decrypt a single block of data - it 's like solving puzzles within puzzles , where the shapes of the pieces are constantly changing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only thing the Iran regime would need to do [...] would be to setup a lot of TOR nodes and analyze the traffic going through themThis is exactly what TOR was designed to protect against.
Even a large scale compromise fails to do two things:

1.
Compromise user identity (e.g.
originating IP address), and
2.
Analyze packets non-discretely (e.g.
as streams).
So the most they'd be able to determine is how much traffic is coming from what appear to be other relays, and also that it is encrypted.
They probably wouldn't even be able to decrypt a single block of data - it's like solving puzzles within puzzles, where the shapes of the pieces are constantly changing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514813</id>
	<title>Re:Support Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246293960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Being interested in "helping the cause", I used to run a TOR relay on my primary system with a fair share of bandwidth. My exit policy was to allow only http/https/irc traffic out. Within 3 days, I found myself unable to browse several websites/forums that I normally frequent. Apparently, a lot of websites use proxies to filter connections from spam and abuse and some of these proxies identify, track and mark IPs running TOR exit relays as abuse relays. I have talked to a maintainer of one such "blacklist" and this is apparently a feature, not a bug as he considers complete anonymity on the internet to cause more harm than good. So, I cannot change the opinion of a blacklist maintainer and I cannot make the websites I visit stop using such blacklists. Essentially I was being blackmailed in a "either you stop running a TOR exit node or you can't browse this and this and this website" fashion. Eventually I had to cave in and had to stop running TOR on my system before the maintainers of these lists agreed to take me off them.<br>
<br>
Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet, but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay. What can be done about this?<br>
<br>
The second problem comes from another point of view. What can I do, as a TOR relay operator, to protect myself from potentially getting harassed by law enforcement non-stop?<br> <br> <br>

P.S: Sorry for crossposting, I initially intended to reply to the parent post, but managed to post my reply into the wrong part of the discussion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Being interested in " helping the cause " , I used to run a TOR relay on my primary system with a fair share of bandwidth .
My exit policy was to allow only http/https/irc traffic out .
Within 3 days , I found myself unable to browse several websites/forums that I normally frequent .
Apparently , a lot of websites use proxies to filter connections from spam and abuse and some of these proxies identify , track and mark IPs running TOR exit relays as abuse relays .
I have talked to a maintainer of one such " blacklist " and this is apparently a feature , not a bug as he considers complete anonymity on the internet to cause more harm than good .
So , I can not change the opinion of a blacklist maintainer and I can not make the websites I visit stop using such blacklists .
Essentially I was being blackmailed in a " either you stop running a TOR exit node or you ca n't browse this and this and this website " fashion .
Eventually I had to cave in and had to stop running TOR on my system before the maintainers of these lists agreed to take me off them .
Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet , but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay .
What can be done about this ?
The second problem comes from another point of view .
What can I do , as a TOR relay operator , to protect myself from potentially getting harassed by law enforcement non-stop ?
P.S : Sorry for crossposting , I initially intended to reply to the parent post , but managed to post my reply into the wrong part of the discussion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being interested in "helping the cause", I used to run a TOR relay on my primary system with a fair share of bandwidth.
My exit policy was to allow only http/https/irc traffic out.
Within 3 days, I found myself unable to browse several websites/forums that I normally frequent.
Apparently, a lot of websites use proxies to filter connections from spam and abuse and some of these proxies identify, track and mark IPs running TOR exit relays as abuse relays.
I have talked to a maintainer of one such "blacklist" and this is apparently a feature, not a bug as he considers complete anonymity on the internet to cause more harm than good.
So, I cannot change the opinion of a blacklist maintainer and I cannot make the websites I visit stop using such blacklists.
Essentially I was being blackmailed in a "either you stop running a TOR exit node or you can't browse this and this and this website" fashion.
Eventually I had to cave in and had to stop running TOR on my system before the maintainers of these lists agreed to take me off them.
Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet, but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay.
What can be done about this?
The second problem comes from another point of view.
What can I do, as a TOR relay operator, to protect myself from potentially getting harassed by law enforcement non-stop?
P.S: Sorry for crossposting, I initially intended to reply to the parent post, but managed to post my reply into the wrong part of the discussion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512989</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513455</id>
	<title>freedom suckers webpage mentioned in article</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246287420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://warriors-attack.blogspot.com/" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://warriors-attack.blogspot.com/</a> [blogspot.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //warriors-attack.blogspot.com/ [ blogspot.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://warriors-attack.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514185</id>
	<title>The Onion</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246291140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Guardian Council's propaganda must be insane if Iranians are relying on The Onion to get news of the outside.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Guardian Council 's propaganda must be insane if Iranians are relying on The Onion to get news of the outside .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Guardian Council's propaganda must be insane if Iranians are relying on The Onion to get news of the outside.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513431</id>
	<title>Re:Support Them</title>
	<author>networkconsultant</author>
	<datestamp>1246287240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I keep on getting portscans from Iran, perhaps they are about to attack!?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I keep on getting portscans from Iran , perhaps they are about to attack !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I keep on getting portscans from Iran, perhaps they are about to attack!
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512989</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514803</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>mi</author>
	<datestamp>1246293900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I have to ask, do you think the people in N. Korea are happy with their lot in life?</p></div></blockquote><p>North Korea's regime would've collapsed decades ago, had it not been for China's and USSR's support &mdash; exactly the external factors, that the GP is talking about. Today China continues to be the major backer of the dictatorship, supplying them with much needed goods and preventing North Koreans from <a href="http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/02/north-korea/oneill-text" title="nationalgeographic.com" rel="nofollow">escaping the oppression</a> [nationalgeographic.com]...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to ask , do you think the people in N. Korea are happy with their lot in life ? North Korea 's regime would 've collapsed decades ago , had it not been for China 's and USSR 's support    exactly the external factors , that the GP is talking about .
Today China continues to be the major backer of the dictatorship , supplying them with much needed goods and preventing North Koreans from escaping the oppression [ nationalgeographic.com ] .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to ask, do you think the people in N. Korea are happy with their lot in life?North Korea's regime would've collapsed decades ago, had it not been for China's and USSR's support — exactly the external factors, that the GP is talking about.
Today China continues to be the major backer of the dictatorship, supplying them with much needed goods and preventing North Koreans from escaping the oppression [nationalgeographic.com]...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513671</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514787</id>
	<title>questions on setting up a TOR relay</title>
	<author>dnaumov</author>
	<datestamp>1246293840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Being interested in "helping the cause", I used to run a TOR relay on my primary system with a fair share of bandwidth. My exit policy was to allow only http/https/irc traffic out. Within 3 days, I found myself unable to browse several websites/forums that I normally frequent. Apparently, a lot of websites use proxies to filter connections from spam and abuse and some of these proxies identify, track and mark IPs running TOR exit relays as abuse relays. I have talked to a maintainer of one such "blacklist" and this is apparently a feature, not a bug as he considers complete anonymity on the internet to cause more harm than good. So, I cannot change the opinion of a blacklist maintainer and I cannot make the websites I visit stop using such blacklists. Essentially I was being blackmailed in a "either you stop running a TOR exit node or you can't browse this and this and this website" fashion. Eventually I had to cave in and had to stop running TOR on my system before the maintainers of these lists agreed to take me off them.<br>
<br>
Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet, but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay. What can be done about this?<br>
<br>
The second problem comes from another point of view. What can I do, as a TOR relay operator, to protect myself from potentially getting harassed by law enforcement non-stop?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Being interested in " helping the cause " , I used to run a TOR relay on my primary system with a fair share of bandwidth .
My exit policy was to allow only http/https/irc traffic out .
Within 3 days , I found myself unable to browse several websites/forums that I normally frequent .
Apparently , a lot of websites use proxies to filter connections from spam and abuse and some of these proxies identify , track and mark IPs running TOR exit relays as abuse relays .
I have talked to a maintainer of one such " blacklist " and this is apparently a feature , not a bug as he considers complete anonymity on the internet to cause more harm than good .
So , I can not change the opinion of a blacklist maintainer and I can not make the websites I visit stop using such blacklists .
Essentially I was being blackmailed in a " either you stop running a TOR exit node or you ca n't browse this and this and this website " fashion .
Eventually I had to cave in and had to stop running TOR on my system before the maintainers of these lists agreed to take me off them .
Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet , but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay .
What can be done about this ?
The second problem comes from another point of view .
What can I do , as a TOR relay operator , to protect myself from potentially getting harassed by law enforcement non-stop ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being interested in "helping the cause", I used to run a TOR relay on my primary system with a fair share of bandwidth.
My exit policy was to allow only http/https/irc traffic out.
Within 3 days, I found myself unable to browse several websites/forums that I normally frequent.
Apparently, a lot of websites use proxies to filter connections from spam and abuse and some of these proxies identify, track and mark IPs running TOR exit relays as abuse relays.
I have talked to a maintainer of one such "blacklist" and this is apparently a feature, not a bug as he considers complete anonymity on the internet to cause more harm than good.
So, I cannot change the opinion of a blacklist maintainer and I cannot make the websites I visit stop using such blacklists.
Essentially I was being blackmailed in a "either you stop running a TOR exit node or you can't browse this and this and this website" fashion.
Eventually I had to cave in and had to stop running TOR on my system before the maintainers of these lists agreed to take me off them.
Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet, but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay.
What can be done about this?
The second problem comes from another point of view.
What can I do, as a TOR relay operator, to protect myself from potentially getting harassed by law enforcement non-stop?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513839</id>
	<title>Support them by electing leaders with balls</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246289460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This guy doesn't count: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack\_Obama" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack\_Obama</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; His initial reaction was that the two candidates were virtually indistinguishable, anyway, and that given the US' recent history in Iran we should stay out of it.  This actually was the correct response, but when it became clear that he was grossly out of step with popular world sentiment he chose to backpedal rather than lose some of his likability and cult of personality status.  Remember when you were little and your mother told you that the popular decision wasn't always the right one?  Well, you people should have listened to her, and Obama should have, too.  It takes far more courage to stand up for your convictions than I guess Obama possesses.  I guess in a world where the absolute worst thing you can do to someone is to make them feel bad about themselves, Obama calculated the risks and decided that he'd rather not have to tell people how it is and therefore become slightly less popular.  I'd be willing to bet that most of the people here on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. who are advocating for private citizens to meddle in the internal affairs of another country were against the Iraq war.  Tell me, why is it illegal for one government to overthrow another, but not illegal when you try to do it on your own?  Because you say so?  Because your subjective sense of morality dictates it?  Here's a novel idea: how about we stop meddling with other countries and try to solve some of the huge problems facing us here at home?  How about we build some friggin' nuclear power plants and upgrade our electrical infrastructure to harden it against EMI pulse attacks, cascading failures, overload, etc., then tell the Arab world to grow up or just kill each other off finally, but either way to leave us the fuck alone?</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; You will see the same waffling play out in the healthcare debate and the energy debate.  Instead of being a leader for change as he promised, he's become a cheerleader for change, cheering on the horrible abortion of a bill that no one even read before voting on that was Waxman-Markey.  The House saw support for Global Warming taxation decreasing under the assault of a bad economy and mounting scientific evidence that current Global Warming dogma is bullshit, so they crammed through a vote before the July 4th recess and hung many middle-America democrats out to dry.  Waxman-Markey: more corporate welfare.  Be they green companies or auto companies or giant banks, it's still corporate welfare and robbing future Americans blind.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Nancy Pelosi: that blow-dried bimbo is setting the cause of women in leadership roles back decades.  Why has Obama decided to become her Cabana Boy instead of telling her to get in line?  He IS the friggin' President, for crying out loud.  Oh right, the whole "no balls" thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This guy does n't count : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack \ _Obama [ wikipedia.org ]           His initial reaction was that the two candidates were virtually indistinguishable , anyway , and that given the US ' recent history in Iran we should stay out of it .
This actually was the correct response , but when it became clear that he was grossly out of step with popular world sentiment he chose to backpedal rather than lose some of his likability and cult of personality status .
Remember when you were little and your mother told you that the popular decision was n't always the right one ?
Well , you people should have listened to her , and Obama should have , too .
It takes far more courage to stand up for your convictions than I guess Obama possesses .
I guess in a world where the absolute worst thing you can do to someone is to make them feel bad about themselves , Obama calculated the risks and decided that he 'd rather not have to tell people how it is and therefore become slightly less popular .
I 'd be willing to bet that most of the people here on / .
who are advocating for private citizens to meddle in the internal affairs of another country were against the Iraq war .
Tell me , why is it illegal for one government to overthrow another , but not illegal when you try to do it on your own ?
Because you say so ?
Because your subjective sense of morality dictates it ?
Here 's a novel idea : how about we stop meddling with other countries and try to solve some of the huge problems facing us here at home ?
How about we build some friggin ' nuclear power plants and upgrade our electrical infrastructure to harden it against EMI pulse attacks , cascading failures , overload , etc. , then tell the Arab world to grow up or just kill each other off finally , but either way to leave us the fuck alone ?
          You will see the same waffling play out in the healthcare debate and the energy debate .
Instead of being a leader for change as he promised , he 's become a cheerleader for change , cheering on the horrible abortion of a bill that no one even read before voting on that was Waxman-Markey .
The House saw support for Global Warming taxation decreasing under the assault of a bad economy and mounting scientific evidence that current Global Warming dogma is bullshit , so they crammed through a vote before the July 4th recess and hung many middle-America democrats out to dry .
Waxman-Markey : more corporate welfare .
Be they green companies or auto companies or giant banks , it 's still corporate welfare and robbing future Americans blind .
          Nancy Pelosi : that blow-dried bimbo is setting the cause of women in leadership roles back decades .
Why has Obama decided to become her Cabana Boy instead of telling her to get in line ?
He IS the friggin ' President , for crying out loud .
Oh right , the whole " no balls " thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This guy doesn't count: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack\_Obama [wikipedia.org]
          His initial reaction was that the two candidates were virtually indistinguishable, anyway, and that given the US' recent history in Iran we should stay out of it.
This actually was the correct response, but when it became clear that he was grossly out of step with popular world sentiment he chose to backpedal rather than lose some of his likability and cult of personality status.
Remember when you were little and your mother told you that the popular decision wasn't always the right one?
Well, you people should have listened to her, and Obama should have, too.
It takes far more courage to stand up for your convictions than I guess Obama possesses.
I guess in a world where the absolute worst thing you can do to someone is to make them feel bad about themselves, Obama calculated the risks and decided that he'd rather not have to tell people how it is and therefore become slightly less popular.
I'd be willing to bet that most of the people here on /.
who are advocating for private citizens to meddle in the internal affairs of another country were against the Iraq war.
Tell me, why is it illegal for one government to overthrow another, but not illegal when you try to do it on your own?
Because you say so?
Because your subjective sense of morality dictates it?
Here's a novel idea: how about we stop meddling with other countries and try to solve some of the huge problems facing us here at home?
How about we build some friggin' nuclear power plants and upgrade our electrical infrastructure to harden it against EMI pulse attacks, cascading failures, overload, etc., then tell the Arab world to grow up or just kill each other off finally, but either way to leave us the fuck alone?
          You will see the same waffling play out in the healthcare debate and the energy debate.
Instead of being a leader for change as he promised, he's become a cheerleader for change, cheering on the horrible abortion of a bill that no one even read before voting on that was Waxman-Markey.
The House saw support for Global Warming taxation decreasing under the assault of a bad economy and mounting scientific evidence that current Global Warming dogma is bullshit, so they crammed through a vote before the July 4th recess and hung many middle-America democrats out to dry.
Waxman-Markey: more corporate welfare.
Be they green companies or auto companies or giant banks, it's still corporate welfare and robbing future Americans blind.
          Nancy Pelosi: that blow-dried bimbo is setting the cause of women in leadership roles back decades.
Why has Obama decided to become her Cabana Boy instead of telling her to get in line?
He IS the friggin' President, for crying out loud.
Oh right, the whole "no balls" thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512989</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514433</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246292400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>About 30\% of Iran's GDP goes into the hands of the army and Basji militiamen (the ones on the motorcycles). These militia men will fight tooth and nail to preserve their lifestyle.</p><p>It doesn't matter what the vast majority of Iranians want. The military has too much to lose. This is a very different situation than in Poland where the army members were also suffering. When ordered to fire into the crowd, they refused to do it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>About 30 \ % of Iran 's GDP goes into the hands of the army and Basji militiamen ( the ones on the motorcycles ) .
These militia men will fight tooth and nail to preserve their lifestyle.It does n't matter what the vast majority of Iranians want .
The military has too much to lose .
This is a very different situation than in Poland where the army members were also suffering .
When ordered to fire into the crowd , they refused to do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>About 30\% of Iran's GDP goes into the hands of the army and Basji militiamen (the ones on the motorcycles).
These militia men will fight tooth and nail to preserve their lifestyle.It doesn't matter what the vast majority of Iranians want.
The military has too much to lose.
This is a very different situation than in Poland where the army members were also suffering.
When ordered to fire into the crowd, they refused to do it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515823</id>
	<title>Re:Hmmm</title>
	<author>slas6654</author>
	<datestamp>1246298160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
<i>
scares the crap out of the powers that be. That something they created could, in theory, be something that fuels their eventual downfall...
</i>
</p><p>
That makes no sense whatsoever.  The Iranian democratic factionists are using TOR to resist the fascist theocracy in Iran.  Why would you say it is being used against the creators - the U.S.  If anything, this is a positive thing for the U.S. inventors.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>scares the crap out of the powers that be .
That something they created could , in theory , be something that fuels their eventual downfall.. . That makes no sense whatsoever .
The Iranian democratic factionists are using TOR to resist the fascist theocracy in Iran .
Why would you say it is being used against the creators - the U.S. If anything , this is a positive thing for the U.S. inventors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>

scares the crap out of the powers that be.
That something they created could, in theory, be something that fuels their eventual downfall...


That makes no sense whatsoever.
The Iranian democratic factionists are using TOR to resist the fascist theocracy in Iran.
Why would you say it is being used against the creators - the U.S.  If anything, this is a positive thing for the U.S. inventors.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28524347</id>
	<title>why focus on Iran?</title>
	<author>falconwolf</author>
	<datestamp>1246297680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>How come nobody talks what <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak47xiUSeZA" title="youtube.com">has happened this past week and is still happening in Honduras?</a> [youtube.com]</i> </p><p>And what about the coup in <a href="http://www.france24.com/en/20090620-southern-african-leaders-meet-madagascar-crisis-sadc-ravalomanana" title="france24.com">Madagascar</a> [france24.com]?</p><p>

Falcon</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How come nobody talks what has happened this past week and is still happening in Honduras ?
[ youtube.com ] And what about the coup in Madagascar [ france24.com ] ?
Falcon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How come nobody talks what has happened this past week and is still happening in Honduras?
[youtube.com] And what about the coup in Madagascar [france24.com]?
Falcon</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28524137</id>
	<title>Re:Support Them</title>
	<author>jawahar</author>
	<datestamp>1246296000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Rest of the Democratic Nations must help Iran enhance its DEMOCRACY.
Iran as a nation is confused, prejudiced and sandwiched between SHARIA(Saudi Arabia) and DEMOCRACY(India).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Rest of the Democratic Nations must help Iran enhance its DEMOCRACY .
Iran as a nation is confused , prejudiced and sandwiched between SHARIA ( Saudi Arabia ) and DEMOCRACY ( India ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rest of the Democratic Nations must help Iran enhance its DEMOCRACY.
Iran as a nation is confused, prejudiced and sandwiched between SHARIA(Saudi Arabia) and DEMOCRACY(India).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512989</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515631</id>
	<title>Only internal traffic could be safe</title>
	<author>htwf\_and\_ip</author>
	<datestamp>1246297500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>As last weeks story pointed out, the Iranians have created a single choke point for traffic. TOR traffic can be recognized by flows and even easier by an application aware firewall/IDS. The points where the TOR traffic comes into the country, each of those nodes risks physical detection. It is not known how much monitoring of internal traffic goes on, so perhaps it is safe for this but not for traffic outside the country.
<br>
The worst thing about this is that if internal traffic is well monitored they can map networks of TOR operators. The government creates an event worth mass twittering and watches the traffic going to the egress TOR routers, that helps them identify 1 layer away from the border. They then repeat that with each new host found until they have an accurate map of the TORosphere.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As last weeks story pointed out , the Iranians have created a single choke point for traffic .
TOR traffic can be recognized by flows and even easier by an application aware firewall/IDS .
The points where the TOR traffic comes into the country , each of those nodes risks physical detection .
It is not known how much monitoring of internal traffic goes on , so perhaps it is safe for this but not for traffic outside the country .
The worst thing about this is that if internal traffic is well monitored they can map networks of TOR operators .
The government creates an event worth mass twittering and watches the traffic going to the egress TOR routers , that helps them identify 1 layer away from the border .
They then repeat that with each new host found until they have an accurate map of the TORosphere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As last weeks story pointed out, the Iranians have created a single choke point for traffic.
TOR traffic can be recognized by flows and even easier by an application aware firewall/IDS.
The points where the TOR traffic comes into the country, each of those nodes risks physical detection.
It is not known how much monitoring of internal traffic goes on, so perhaps it is safe for this but not for traffic outside the country.
The worst thing about this is that if internal traffic is well monitored they can map networks of TOR operators.
The government creates an event worth mass twittering and watches the traffic going to the egress TOR routers, that helps them identify 1 layer away from the border.
They then repeat that with each new host found until they have an accurate map of the TORosphere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28519089</id>
	<title>Re:questions on setting up a TOR relay</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246267560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What can you do?  Set up your relay at a different IP address than you use for other purposes.  This will require jumping through some hoops, but it sound like you have already invested a lot in this project (time=money), so getting access to a system you can either set TOR up on, or relay TOR traffic back and forth via VPN to your home node, should not be prohibitive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What can you do ?
Set up your relay at a different IP address than you use for other purposes .
This will require jumping through some hoops , but it sound like you have already invested a lot in this project ( time = money ) , so getting access to a system you can either set TOR up on , or relay TOR traffic back and forth via VPN to your home node , should not be prohibitive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What can you do?
Set up your relay at a different IP address than you use for other purposes.
This will require jumping through some hoops, but it sound like you have already invested a lot in this project (time=money), so getting access to a system you can either set TOR up on, or relay TOR traffic back and forth via VPN to your home node, should not be prohibitive.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514787</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514591</id>
	<title>Re:Flowing, but still risky</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246293000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this should've never been moded "insightful" - TOR encrypts traffic with multiple layers (hence the Onion in The Onion Router). it's obviously unencrypted when it exits TOR, but by that time the source is no longer known, which is the whole point. while it is possible for an attacker to circumvent it, it requires an amount of resources (and timing) that's next to impossible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this should 've never been moded " insightful " - TOR encrypts traffic with multiple layers ( hence the Onion in The Onion Router ) .
it 's obviously unencrypted when it exits TOR , but by that time the source is no longer known , which is the whole point .
while it is possible for an attacker to circumvent it , it requires an amount of resources ( and timing ) that 's next to impossible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this should've never been moded "insightful" - TOR encrypts traffic with multiple layers (hence the Onion in The Onion Router).
it's obviously unencrypted when it exits TOR, but by that time the source is no longer known, which is the whole point.
while it is possible for an attacker to circumvent it, it requires an amount of resources (and timing) that's next to impossible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28519665</id>
	<title>Re:Support Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246269420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Run TOR purely as a relay with a no-exit policy. Or run TOR as a bridge (unlisted entry point). You'll still be helping the network either way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Run TOR purely as a relay with a no-exit policy .
Or run TOR as a bridge ( unlisted entry point ) .
You 'll still be helping the network either way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Run TOR purely as a relay with a no-exit policy.
Or run TOR as a bridge (unlisted entry point).
You'll still be helping the network either way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514813</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513105</id>
	<title>Side benefits?</title>
	<author>BenEnglishAtHome</author>
	<datestamp>1246284960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I use Tor regularly and it's really slow.  Not unusable, but really slow.</p><p>If I understand this correctly (and I'm not at all sure I do, so feel free to correct me), the more people who set up and use Tor the more quickly traffic can propagate.  So if the situation in Iran is causing lots of people, both in and outside of Iran, to use Tor, then the whole thing should speed up, right?</p><p>So is that why when I visited a few miscellaneous<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.onion sites last nite, they were far more responsive than usual?</p><p>I imagine the Supreme Leader would be pissed if he understood.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I use Tor regularly and it 's really slow .
Not unusable , but really slow.If I understand this correctly ( and I 'm not at all sure I do , so feel free to correct me ) , the more people who set up and use Tor the more quickly traffic can propagate .
So if the situation in Iran is causing lots of people , both in and outside of Iran , to use Tor , then the whole thing should speed up , right ? So is that why when I visited a few miscellaneous .onion sites last nite , they were far more responsive than usual ? I imagine the Supreme Leader would be pissed if he understood .
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use Tor regularly and it's really slow.
Not unusable, but really slow.If I understand this correctly (and I'm not at all sure I do, so feel free to correct me), the more people who set up and use Tor the more quickly traffic can propagate.
So if the situation in Iran is causing lots of people, both in and outside of Iran, to use Tor, then the whole thing should speed up, right?So is that why when I visited a few miscellaneous .onion sites last nite, they were far more responsive than usual?I imagine the Supreme Leader would be pissed if he understood.
:-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514641</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>sznupi</author>
	<datestamp>1246293240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also, learn at least the basics of modern history...</p><p><i>After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market. Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.</i><br>Red Army went away only after many years of struggle. There was bloodshed practically in every Soviet satellite country.</p><p><i>In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians. The folks running the government are Iranian. The president is Iranian. The secret police are Iranian. The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.</i><br>Except for presence of external force (which <b>was</b> present for large part of modern Iran), all this was true in former soviet republics.</p><p><i>If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur. Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.<br>Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government. We must condemn Iranian culture. Its product is the authoritarian state.</i><br>When democracy advocates attempted to establish a genuine democracies in soviet republics,for many years violence was the result. Even though majority of population supported the changes. The state of affairs had nothing to do with local culture. Minority that held power was enough.</p><p><i>We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran. If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence. Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy. The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.</i><br>You know nothing about the struggle of Poland for democracy. There was violence, people died, change didn't come for many years.<br>And actually it might have come much sooner if, for example, Western Allies didn't handle Eastern Europe on a plate to Stalin. Or didn't let military aggresion on Czechoslovakia in the 60's. And so on... If there was some kind of <b>intervention</b></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , learn at least the basics of modern history...After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe , the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market .
Except for Romania ( where its people killed their dictator ) , there was no violence.Red Army went away only after many years of struggle .
There was bloodshed practically in every Soviet satellite country.In Iran ( and many other failed states ) , no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians .
The folks running the government are Iranian .
The president is Iranian .
The secret police are Iranian .
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.Except for presence of external force ( which was present for large part of modern Iran ) , all this was true in former soviet republics.If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran , violence will occur .
Why ? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government .
We must condemn Iranian culture .
Its product is the authoritarian state.When democracy advocates attempted to establish a genuine democracies in soviet republics,for many years violence was the result .
Even though majority of population supported the changes .
The state of affairs had nothing to do with local culture .
Minority that held power was enough.We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran .
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians ( like the overwhelming majority of Poles ) truly support democracy , human rights , and peace with Israel , then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence .
Right now , the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy .
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.You know nothing about the struggle of Poland for democracy .
There was violence , people died , change did n't come for many years.And actually it might have come much sooner if , for example , Western Allies did n't handle Eastern Europe on a plate to Stalin .
Or did n't let military aggresion on Czechoslovakia in the 60 's .
And so on... If there was some kind of intervention</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, learn at least the basics of modern history...After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market.
Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.Red Army went away only after many years of struggle.
There was bloodshed practically in every Soviet satellite country.In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.
The folks running the government are Iranian.
The president is Iranian.
The secret police are Iranian.
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.Except for presence of external force (which was present for large part of modern Iran), all this was true in former soviet republics.If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur.
Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government.
We must condemn Iranian culture.
Its product is the authoritarian state.When democracy advocates attempted to establish a genuine democracies in soviet republics,for many years violence was the result.
Even though majority of population supported the changes.
The state of affairs had nothing to do with local culture.
Minority that held power was enough.We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran.
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence.
Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy.
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.You know nothing about the struggle of Poland for democracy.
There was violence, people died, change didn't come for many years.And actually it might have come much sooner if, for example, Western Allies didn't handle Eastern Europe on a plate to Stalin.
Or didn't let military aggresion on Czechoslovakia in the 60's.
And so on... If there was some kind of intervention</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515903</id>
	<title>Re:Zmodem?</title>
	<author>just fiddling around</author>
	<datestamp>1246298400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With an accoustic coupler, you can't dream of going much over 2400 bps regardless of line quality.</p><p>At 2400bps you can read the text "live" in the download stream(!)  And I remember well that sending 1 megabyte by Zmodem took about 1 hour....   not practical when you are sitting in a payphone booth, except for small amounts of data.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With an accoustic coupler , you ca n't dream of going much over 2400 bps regardless of line quality.At 2400bps you can read the text " live " in the download stream ( !
) And I remember well that sending 1 megabyte by Zmodem took about 1 hour.... not practical when you are sitting in a payphone booth , except for small amounts of data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With an accoustic coupler, you can't dream of going much over 2400 bps regardless of line quality.At 2400bps you can read the text "live" in the download stream(!
)  And I remember well that sending 1 megabyte by Zmodem took about 1 hour....   not practical when you are sitting in a payphone booth, except for small amounts of data.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513437</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28516791</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246301820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The Iranians created this horrible society.</p><p>The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran.</p></div><p>Wrong.  They had lots of outside influence.  The US supported Saddam in Iraq to counter Iran's influence.  Saddam attacked Iran and the war lasted eight years.  During a time of war, you need an authoritative government, not a democracy.  Therefore, the US indirectly or directly helped create the need that created the current Iranian government.  There's also the whole business with the US supported Shah to consider also.</p><p>On the flip side, the Iran-Iraq war killed a lot of combat age Iranians which created the huge age imbalance in Iran.  You have a huge liberal young generation being governed by a minority, very old demographic during peacetime.  There's no middle generation to keep the peace between the two by moderating change.</p><p>Iran has been hugely influenced by non-Iranians, which has lead to the current government and situation.  Therefore stating that the Iranians have chosen a tyrannical from of government because Iranian culture is a harsh tyrant loving culture is just wrong.  Iran has a tyrannical government because they needed a tyrannical government to survive a long, brutal, murderous war.  What we're seeing today with the elections is because of the conservative old guard who hasn't realized that tyranny isn't needed any longer.  The younger Iranian generation is trying to affect a change to a more liberal peacetime democracy.  The older generation is resisting.  Both generations know they're right, and both think that they know what's best for everyone.  Hence the conflict.</p><p>The problem isn't that Iranians are inherently tyrant loving evil people, it's just the standard problems of those in power want to stay in power and will do anything to keep it, combined with those in power being too conservative to accept change.  Both problems are common to any society or culture, and the the large Iranian age gap severely exacerbates the situation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Iranians created this horrible society.The Iranians bear 100 \ % of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran.Wrong .
They had lots of outside influence .
The US supported Saddam in Iraq to counter Iran 's influence .
Saddam attacked Iran and the war lasted eight years .
During a time of war , you need an authoritative government , not a democracy .
Therefore , the US indirectly or directly helped create the need that created the current Iranian government .
There 's also the whole business with the US supported Shah to consider also.On the flip side , the Iran-Iraq war killed a lot of combat age Iranians which created the huge age imbalance in Iran .
You have a huge liberal young generation being governed by a minority , very old demographic during peacetime .
There 's no middle generation to keep the peace between the two by moderating change.Iran has been hugely influenced by non-Iranians , which has lead to the current government and situation .
Therefore stating that the Iranians have chosen a tyrannical from of government because Iranian culture is a harsh tyrant loving culture is just wrong .
Iran has a tyrannical government because they needed a tyrannical government to survive a long , brutal , murderous war .
What we 're seeing today with the elections is because of the conservative old guard who has n't realized that tyranny is n't needed any longer .
The younger Iranian generation is trying to affect a change to a more liberal peacetime democracy .
The older generation is resisting .
Both generations know they 're right , and both think that they know what 's best for everyone .
Hence the conflict.The problem is n't that Iranians are inherently tyrant loving evil people , it 's just the standard problems of those in power want to stay in power and will do anything to keep it , combined with those in power being too conservative to accept change .
Both problems are common to any society or culture , and the the large Iranian age gap severely exacerbates the situation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Iranians created this horrible society.The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran.Wrong.
They had lots of outside influence.
The US supported Saddam in Iraq to counter Iran's influence.
Saddam attacked Iran and the war lasted eight years.
During a time of war, you need an authoritative government, not a democracy.
Therefore, the US indirectly or directly helped create the need that created the current Iranian government.
There's also the whole business with the US supported Shah to consider also.On the flip side, the Iran-Iraq war killed a lot of combat age Iranians which created the huge age imbalance in Iran.
You have a huge liberal young generation being governed by a minority, very old demographic during peacetime.
There's no middle generation to keep the peace between the two by moderating change.Iran has been hugely influenced by non-Iranians, which has lead to the current government and situation.
Therefore stating that the Iranians have chosen a tyrannical from of government because Iranian culture is a harsh tyrant loving culture is just wrong.
Iran has a tyrannical government because they needed a tyrannical government to survive a long, brutal, murderous war.
What we're seeing today with the elections is because of the conservative old guard who hasn't realized that tyranny isn't needed any longer.
The younger Iranian generation is trying to affect a change to a more liberal peacetime democracy.
The older generation is resisting.
Both generations know they're right, and both think that they know what's best for everyone.
Hence the conflict.The problem isn't that Iranians are inherently tyrant loving evil people, it's just the standard problems of those in power want to stay in power and will do anything to keep it, combined with those in power being too conservative to accept change.
Both problems are common to any society or culture, and the the large Iranian age gap severely exacerbates the situation.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28519041</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246267320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Honduras is a shithole full of nigger spics. Who the hell cares about them. Iran is much more important.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Honduras is a shithole full of nigger spics .
Who the hell cares about them .
Iran is much more important .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honduras is a shithole full of nigger spics.
Who the hell cares about them.
Iran is much more important.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28540943</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>milenfu</author>
	<datestamp>1246455720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem is that you dont have a clue about Iran and its people. Most of your key points are just false and I dont know how you came up with the underlying assumptions in the first place.
<br> <br>
1. The demonstrators are not socially isolated. The movement draws its member from merely every social segement in Iran, which by the way explains why they gathered behind a guy who was at the forefront of the Islamization of the Republic in the 80s. Of course, the Iranian elite is more present on the web than any other social group. But that does not mean, that people without mobiles and internet access are not joining forces to overthrow that regime.
<br> <br>
2. The deomonstrations take place everywhere in Iran! Just because the most videos are sent from Tehran doesnt mean that there is nothing happening in other cities, where Internet access has been restricted even more so.
<br> <br>
3. Check your facts, the last revolution in Iran happened in 1979 BUT it started 1.5 years earlier. During that time, many were detained, obducted and executed. Ring a bell?
<br> <br>
The correct answer to the question "what will happen in Iran?" is: We dont know at the moment. There is simply no way to determine the future of such a complex social event even less so by watching stuff on youtube, twitter and facebook.


Also see: <a href="http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/07/01/an-eyewitness-risks-his-life-to-tell-the-stories-of-tehran/" title="crikey.com.au" rel="nofollow">http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/07/01/an-eyewitness-risks-his-life-to-tell-the-stories-of-tehran/</a> [crikey.com.au]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that you dont have a clue about Iran and its people .
Most of your key points are just false and I dont know how you came up with the underlying assumptions in the first place .
1. The demonstrators are not socially isolated .
The movement draws its member from merely every social segement in Iran , which by the way explains why they gathered behind a guy who was at the forefront of the Islamization of the Republic in the 80s .
Of course , the Iranian elite is more present on the web than any other social group .
But that does not mean , that people without mobiles and internet access are not joining forces to overthrow that regime .
2. The deomonstrations take place everywhere in Iran !
Just because the most videos are sent from Tehran doesnt mean that there is nothing happening in other cities , where Internet access has been restricted even more so .
3. Check your facts , the last revolution in Iran happened in 1979 BUT it started 1.5 years earlier .
During that time , many were detained , obducted and executed .
Ring a bell ?
The correct answer to the question " what will happen in Iran ?
" is : We dont know at the moment .
There is simply no way to determine the future of such a complex social event even less so by watching stuff on youtube , twitter and facebook .
Also see : http : //www.crikey.com.au/2009/07/01/an-eyewitness-risks-his-life-to-tell-the-stories-of-tehran/ [ crikey.com.au ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that you dont have a clue about Iran and its people.
Most of your key points are just false and I dont know how you came up with the underlying assumptions in the first place.
1. The demonstrators are not socially isolated.
The movement draws its member from merely every social segement in Iran, which by the way explains why they gathered behind a guy who was at the forefront of the Islamization of the Republic in the 80s.
Of course, the Iranian elite is more present on the web than any other social group.
But that does not mean, that people without mobiles and internet access are not joining forces to overthrow that regime.
2. The deomonstrations take place everywhere in Iran!
Just because the most videos are sent from Tehran doesnt mean that there is nothing happening in other cities, where Internet access has been restricted even more so.
3. Check your facts, the last revolution in Iran happened in 1979 BUT it started 1.5 years earlier.
During that time, many were detained, obducted and executed.
Ring a bell?
The correct answer to the question "what will happen in Iran?
" is: We dont know at the moment.
There is simply no way to determine the future of such a complex social event even less so by watching stuff on youtube, twitter and facebook.
Also see: http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/07/01/an-eyewitness-risks-his-life-to-tell-the-stories-of-tehran/ [crikey.com.au]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513525</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514479</id>
	<title>Re:Side benefits?</title>
	<author>scorilo</author>
	<datestamp>1246292580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>TOR is sometimes as fast as the real thing - those German relays are awesome, in particular. Setting up a relay also provides additional privacy for the user.</p><p>However, I strongly doubt that any speed-up you might have noticed is due to the Iran users. Even if they were to set up relays - and they aren't really in a position to do so, in their particular situation - the outgoing traffic in Iran is choked and deep-packet inspected, hence slow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>TOR is sometimes as fast as the real thing - those German relays are awesome , in particular .
Setting up a relay also provides additional privacy for the user.However , I strongly doubt that any speed-up you might have noticed is due to the Iran users .
Even if they were to set up relays - and they are n't really in a position to do so , in their particular situation - the outgoing traffic in Iran is choked and deep-packet inspected , hence slow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TOR is sometimes as fast as the real thing - those German relays are awesome, in particular.
Setting up a relay also provides additional privacy for the user.However, I strongly doubt that any speed-up you might have noticed is due to the Iran users.
Even if they were to set up relays - and they aren't really in a position to do so, in their particular situation - the outgoing traffic in Iran is choked and deep-packet inspected, hence slow.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513105</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515663</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values - Hillary Has Spoken</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246297680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hillary wants to know why the Honduran military won't let the leftists throw out the Honduran constitution.  A victory for North American despots.  A glimpse of things to come.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hillary wants to know why the Honduran military wo n't let the leftists throw out the Honduran constitution .
A victory for North American despots .
A glimpse of things to come .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hillary wants to know why the Honduran military won't let the leftists throw out the Honduran constitution.
A victory for North American despots.
A glimpse of things to come.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515105</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>pearl298</author>
	<datestamp>1246295340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The really ugly truth is that "the people" don't count for anything but cannon fodder in places like that!</p><p>Probably the best example is the novel "Gorky Park", where solving a murder was deemed "contrary to the interests of the state", the victim just didn't matter!</p><p>Perhaps you need to spend a little time in a totalitarian country where everything is controlled and/or forbidden.</p><p>They are countries run by overgrown playground bullies with all the incompetence and brutality that implies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The really ugly truth is that " the people " do n't count for anything but cannon fodder in places like that ! Probably the best example is the novel " Gorky Park " , where solving a murder was deemed " contrary to the interests of the state " , the victim just did n't matter ! Perhaps you need to spend a little time in a totalitarian country where everything is controlled and/or forbidden.They are countries run by overgrown playground bullies with all the incompetence and brutality that implies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The really ugly truth is that "the people" don't count for anything but cannon fodder in places like that!Probably the best example is the novel "Gorky Park", where solving a murder was deemed "contrary to the interests of the state", the victim just didn't matter!Perhaps you need to spend a little time in a totalitarian country where everything is controlled and/or forbidden.They are countries run by overgrown playground bullies with all the incompetence and brutality that implies.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514687</id>
	<title>Not feasible</title>
	<author>basicio</author>
	<datestamp>1246293420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is no way Iran has the resources to perform correlation attacks on Tor traffic.
<br> <br>
Facts:
-There are about 1800 Tor nodes running right now, and about 900 of those are exit nodes. (http://torstatus.kgprog.com/)<br>
-Any entity performing cross-correlation attacks on Tor isn't going to have a very good chance of compromising a given circuit unless they control a very significant portion (say, a third or more) of the Tor network.<br>
-There are tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of clients using Tor, and Iran only accounts for about 3000 of them. (https://blog.torproject.org/blog/measuring-tor-and-iran)<br>
-By default, Tor will not construct circuits with two nodes that share<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/16 subnets.<br>
-Iran's assigned IP address blocks include 75 or so distinct<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/16 subnets<br>
<br>
So to even have a chance of being effective, Iran needs to come up with at least 600 geographically distinct Tor nodes. Any nodes inside Iran are going to be almost entirely ineffective, because deep packet inspection means that all traffic into and out of Iran is slowed to a crawl. Iran also needs to write the code to do cross-correlation attacks. Iran then needs to deal with a ton of data they don't care about from users not in Iran (and there are a lot more people using Tor who aren't in Iran than people who are). It would take a lot of smart people distributed around the world to pull this off, and for very little gain.
<br> <br>
Compromising Tor? That's pretty difficult. Blocking it, when all internet connections are being routed through a single place? Not so difficult.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no way Iran has the resources to perform correlation attacks on Tor traffic .
Facts : -There are about 1800 Tor nodes running right now , and about 900 of those are exit nodes .
( http : //torstatus.kgprog.com/ ) -Any entity performing cross-correlation attacks on Tor is n't going to have a very good chance of compromising a given circuit unless they control a very significant portion ( say , a third or more ) of the Tor network .
-There are tens ( maybe hundreds ) of thousands of clients using Tor , and Iran only accounts for about 3000 of them .
( https : //blog.torproject.org/blog/measuring-tor-and-iran ) -By default , Tor will not construct circuits with two nodes that share /16 subnets .
-Iran 's assigned IP address blocks include 75 or so distinct /16 subnets So to even have a chance of being effective , Iran needs to come up with at least 600 geographically distinct Tor nodes .
Any nodes inside Iran are going to be almost entirely ineffective , because deep packet inspection means that all traffic into and out of Iran is slowed to a crawl .
Iran also needs to write the code to do cross-correlation attacks .
Iran then needs to deal with a ton of data they do n't care about from users not in Iran ( and there are a lot more people using Tor who are n't in Iran than people who are ) .
It would take a lot of smart people distributed around the world to pull this off , and for very little gain .
Compromising Tor ?
That 's pretty difficult .
Blocking it , when all internet connections are being routed through a single place ?
Not so difficult .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no way Iran has the resources to perform correlation attacks on Tor traffic.
Facts:
-There are about 1800 Tor nodes running right now, and about 900 of those are exit nodes.
(http://torstatus.kgprog.com/)
-Any entity performing cross-correlation attacks on Tor isn't going to have a very good chance of compromising a given circuit unless they control a very significant portion (say, a third or more) of the Tor network.
-There are tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of clients using Tor, and Iran only accounts for about 3000 of them.
(https://blog.torproject.org/blog/measuring-tor-and-iran)
-By default, Tor will not construct circuits with two nodes that share /16 subnets.
-Iran's assigned IP address blocks include 75 or so distinct /16 subnets

So to even have a chance of being effective, Iran needs to come up with at least 600 geographically distinct Tor nodes.
Any nodes inside Iran are going to be almost entirely ineffective, because deep packet inspection means that all traffic into and out of Iran is slowed to a crawl.
Iran also needs to write the code to do cross-correlation attacks.
Iran then needs to deal with a ton of data they don't care about from users not in Iran (and there are a lot more people using Tor who aren't in Iran than people who are).
It would take a lot of smart people distributed around the world to pull this off, and for very little gain.
Compromising Tor?
That's pretty difficult.
Blocking it, when all internet connections are being routed through a single place?
Not so difficult.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513225</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513981</id>
	<title>Apples and Oranges</title>
	<author>interactive\_civilian</author>
	<datestamp>1246290180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because what happened in Honduras was legitimate by their constitution (the president was committing TREASON according to article 4 of their constitution, therefore it was legal for the Honduran Supreme Court to vote to remove him and for the military to execute that). It is not exactly a military coup, because once the president was removed, the next in line was legally put in his place to serve out the remainder of the term until elections next year.</p><p>So, in Iran, you have a corrupt government trying to steal the election from the people and implement their own de facto dictatorship. The people are standing up against that. In Honduras, you have a president defying the law and committing treason by trying to set up a way for himself to become a dictator, and then being legally removed from power by the government he was trying to betray. Very different situations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because what happened in Honduras was legitimate by their constitution ( the president was committing TREASON according to article 4 of their constitution , therefore it was legal for the Honduran Supreme Court to vote to remove him and for the military to execute that ) .
It is not exactly a military coup , because once the president was removed , the next in line was legally put in his place to serve out the remainder of the term until elections next year.So , in Iran , you have a corrupt government trying to steal the election from the people and implement their own de facto dictatorship .
The people are standing up against that .
In Honduras , you have a president defying the law and committing treason by trying to set up a way for himself to become a dictator , and then being legally removed from power by the government he was trying to betray .
Very different situations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because what happened in Honduras was legitimate by their constitution (the president was committing TREASON according to article 4 of their constitution, therefore it was legal for the Honduran Supreme Court to vote to remove him and for the military to execute that).
It is not exactly a military coup, because once the president was removed, the next in line was legally put in his place to serve out the remainder of the term until elections next year.So, in Iran, you have a corrupt government trying to steal the election from the people and implement their own de facto dictatorship.
The people are standing up against that.
In Honduras, you have a president defying the law and committing treason by trying to set up a way for himself to become a dictator, and then being legally removed from power by the government he was trying to betray.
Very different situations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514857</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Twinbee</author>
	<datestamp>1246294140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Weird that this gets 5 insightful now when before the <a href="http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1268355&amp;cid=28328085" title="slashdot.org">dupe</a> [slashdot.org] got -1 troll. Where's the consistency slashdot mods?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Weird that this gets 5 insightful now when before the dupe [ slashdot.org ] got -1 troll .
Where 's the consistency slashdot mods ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Weird that this gets 5 insightful now when before the dupe [slashdot.org] got -1 troll.
Where's the consistency slashdot mods?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513127</id>
	<title>Flowing, but still risky</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246285080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>TOR doesn't ensure true anonymity.

The only thing the Iran regime would need to do in order to sabotage it, would be to setup a lot of TOR nodes and analyze the traffic going through them as there is no encryption for the data.

Right now this technology benefits from privacy due to obscurity. If the service becomes popular enough, they'll probably resort to the tactics detailed above.</htmltext>
<tokenext>TOR does n't ensure true anonymity .
The only thing the Iran regime would need to do in order to sabotage it , would be to setup a lot of TOR nodes and analyze the traffic going through them as there is no encryption for the data .
Right now this technology benefits from privacy due to obscurity .
If the service becomes popular enough , they 'll probably resort to the tactics detailed above .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TOR doesn't ensure true anonymity.
The only thing the Iran regime would need to do in order to sabotage it, would be to setup a lot of TOR nodes and analyze the traffic going through them as there is no encryption for the data.
Right now this technology benefits from privacy due to obscurity.
If the service becomes popular enough, they'll probably resort to the tactics detailed above.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513671</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246288740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While I agree with a lot of what you have to say, I have to ask, do you think the people in N. Korea are happy with their lot in life?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While I agree with a lot of what you have to say , I have to ask , do you think the people in N. Korea are happy with their lot in life ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I agree with a lot of what you have to say, I have to ask, do you think the people in N. Korea are happy with their lot in life?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513461</id>
	<title>Re:Flowing, but still risky</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246287420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're wrong.  Tor does encrypt node-to-node traffic.  It does not encrypt the exit node traffic though because that's what is actually accessing stuff on the Internet.  So yeah, if you go to a an unencrypted web site then the Tor exit node you are using can see your traffic.</p><p>In theory they wouldn't know who the source was unless that information is in the plain-text data.  In practice, if they happen to also be running your Tor connection point then they can run a statistical analysis attack and figure out who the source is.  That is really the main problem with Tor.  There are a lot of "unfriendly" entry and exit nodes and if you happen to get a pair run by the same entity then they can see what you're doing (which is even worse than not running Tor at all).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're wrong .
Tor does encrypt node-to-node traffic .
It does not encrypt the exit node traffic though because that 's what is actually accessing stuff on the Internet .
So yeah , if you go to a an unencrypted web site then the Tor exit node you are using can see your traffic.In theory they would n't know who the source was unless that information is in the plain-text data .
In practice , if they happen to also be running your Tor connection point then they can run a statistical analysis attack and figure out who the source is .
That is really the main problem with Tor .
There are a lot of " unfriendly " entry and exit nodes and if you happen to get a pair run by the same entity then they can see what you 're doing ( which is even worse than not running Tor at all ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're wrong.
Tor does encrypt node-to-node traffic.
It does not encrypt the exit node traffic though because that's what is actually accessing stuff on the Internet.
So yeah, if you go to a an unencrypted web site then the Tor exit node you are using can see your traffic.In theory they wouldn't know who the source was unless that information is in the plain-text data.
In practice, if they happen to also be running your Tor connection point then they can run a statistical analysis attack and figure out who the source is.
That is really the main problem with Tor.
There are a lot of "unfriendly" entry and exit nodes and if you happen to get a pair run by the same entity then they can see what you're doing (which is even worse than not running Tor at all).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</id>
	<title>The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246286340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., the army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people. Period.
<p>
After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market. Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
</p><p>
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians. The folks running the government are Iranian. The president is Iranian. The secret police are Iranian. The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
</p><p>
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur. Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
</p><p>
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government. We must condemn Iranian culture. Its product is the authoritarian state.
</p><p>
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran. If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence. Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy. The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
</p><p>
The Iranians created this horrible society. It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons. We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
</p><p>
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans. They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people. Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West. Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society. They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
</p><p>
Cultures are different. Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different. The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran. We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the absence of an external interfering force ( e. g. , the army of the Soviet Union ) , the fate of a nation is determined by its people .
Period . After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe , the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market .
Except for Romania ( where its people killed their dictator ) , there was no violence .
In Iran ( and many other failed states ) , no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians .
The folks running the government are Iranian .
The president is Iranian .
The secret police are Iranian .
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian .
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran , violence will occur .
Why ? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates .
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government .
We must condemn Iranian culture .
Its product is the authoritarian state .
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran .
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians ( like the overwhelming majority of Poles ) truly support democracy , human rights , and peace with Israel , then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence .
Right now , the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy .
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy .
The Iranians created this horrible society .
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons .
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities .
Note that , 40 years ago , Vietnam suffered a worse fate ( than the Iranians ) at the hands of the Americans .
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange , poisoning both the land and the people .
Yet , the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge ( by , e. g. , building a nuclear bomb ) against the West .
Rather , the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society .
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians .
Cultures are different .
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different .
The Iranians bear 100 \ % of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran .
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., the army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people.
Period.

After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market.
Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.
The folks running the government are Iranian.
The president is Iranian.
The secret police are Iranian.
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur.
Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government.
We must condemn Iranian culture.
Its product is the authoritarian state.
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran.
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence.
Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy.
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
The Iranians created this horrible society.
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans.
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people.
Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West.
Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society.
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
Cultures are different.
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different.
The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran.
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512989</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512983</id>
	<title>Can't the eds even make a headline sentence now ??</title>
	<author>rixster\_uk</author>
	<datestamp>1246284240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"The Technology Keeping Information Flowing in Iran". Is it just me or does this not scan at all ? I know the editors are bad but sheesh !! This place use to be great, went to "ok" and now... well.. see for yourself : <a href="http://www.google.com/trends?q=slashdot.org" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/trends?q=slashdot.org</a> [google.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>" The Technology Keeping Information Flowing in Iran " .
Is it just me or does this not scan at all ?
I know the editors are bad but sheesh ! !
This place use to be great , went to " ok " and now... well.. see for yourself : http : //www.google.com/trends ? q = slashdot.org [ google.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The Technology Keeping Information Flowing in Iran".
Is it just me or does this not scan at all ?
I know the editors are bad but sheesh !!
This place use to be great, went to "ok" and now... well.. see for yourself : http://www.google.com/trends?q=slashdot.org [google.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514529</id>
	<title>Re:Support Them</title>
	<author>mistahkurtz</author>
	<datestamp>1246292760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Support them by becoming a Tor relay</p></div><p>
so, i tried this. i was a live Tor relay for one day. then i was banned from every IRC server i might want to use (except the one for Tor). and then, on the second day, Tor quit working.. bandwidth check, good. node publication, good. actually connectivity to the Tor network? nope. i use RR in north TX, from what i hear, they don't block Tor, but i don't have any other explanations.<br>
<br>
i'd love to help... it's just not working out. i'm open to possible solutions, or alternatives, though.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Support them by becoming a Tor relay so , i tried this .
i was a live Tor relay for one day .
then i was banned from every IRC server i might want to use ( except the one for Tor ) .
and then , on the second day , Tor quit working.. bandwidth check , good .
node publication , good .
actually connectivity to the Tor network ?
nope. i use RR in north TX , from what i hear , they do n't block Tor , but i do n't have any other explanations .
i 'd love to help... it 's just not working out .
i 'm open to possible solutions , or alternatives , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Support them by becoming a Tor relay
so, i tried this.
i was a live Tor relay for one day.
then i was banned from every IRC server i might want to use (except the one for Tor).
and then, on the second day, Tor quit working.. bandwidth check, good.
node publication, good.
actually connectivity to the Tor network?
nope. i use RR in north TX, from what i hear, they don't block Tor, but i don't have any other explanations.
i'd love to help... it's just not working out.
i'm open to possible solutions, or alternatives, though.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512989</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514891</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246294320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's going down in Honduras is *good* democracy. It's basically a hurried impeachment.</p><p>President Zelaya wanted a referendum to change the constitution to allow himself to run for re-election. Legislatures said no. Courts said no. Zelaya insisted. Zelaya tried to get the military to arrange this referendum. Defense Minister said no. Zelaya sacked Defense Minister and started talking directly to generals to arrange the referendum. The Generals had some back-room meetings with judges and legislatures and all agree Zelaya is way way way out of line. Still in the back-room, everyone agrees it's best to get a couple of soldiers to put him on am airplane and send him to Costa Rica. On the same day, congress votes to institute the constitutionally next-in-line to be president for the remainder of the term. Elections will be held this November.</p><p>It's an excellent example of how the three-legged table of democracy works. When one of the powers becomes unfit to serve, the other two powers can should and must team up to reinstate sanity. In this case, legislative and judicial powers teaming up to remove an executive that was trying to take the first step towards establishing a Venezuela-style dictatorship.</p><p>Good for Honduras.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's going down in Honduras is * good * democracy .
It 's basically a hurried impeachment.President Zelaya wanted a referendum to change the constitution to allow himself to run for re-election .
Legislatures said no .
Courts said no .
Zelaya insisted .
Zelaya tried to get the military to arrange this referendum .
Defense Minister said no .
Zelaya sacked Defense Minister and started talking directly to generals to arrange the referendum .
The Generals had some back-room meetings with judges and legislatures and all agree Zelaya is way way way out of line .
Still in the back-room , everyone agrees it 's best to get a couple of soldiers to put him on am airplane and send him to Costa Rica .
On the same day , congress votes to institute the constitutionally next-in-line to be president for the remainder of the term .
Elections will be held this November.It 's an excellent example of how the three-legged table of democracy works .
When one of the powers becomes unfit to serve , the other two powers can should and must team up to reinstate sanity .
In this case , legislative and judicial powers teaming up to remove an executive that was trying to take the first step towards establishing a Venezuela-style dictatorship.Good for Honduras .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's going down in Honduras is *good* democracy.
It's basically a hurried impeachment.President Zelaya wanted a referendum to change the constitution to allow himself to run for re-election.
Legislatures said no.
Courts said no.
Zelaya insisted.
Zelaya tried to get the military to arrange this referendum.
Defense Minister said no.
Zelaya sacked Defense Minister and started talking directly to generals to arrange the referendum.
The Generals had some back-room meetings with judges and legislatures and all agree Zelaya is way way way out of line.
Still in the back-room, everyone agrees it's best to get a couple of soldiers to put him on am airplane and send him to Costa Rica.
On the same day, congress votes to institute the constitutionally next-in-line to be president for the remainder of the term.
Elections will be held this November.It's an excellent example of how the three-legged table of democracy works.
When one of the powers becomes unfit to serve, the other two powers can should and must team up to reinstate sanity.
In this case, legislative and judicial powers teaming up to remove an executive that was trying to take the first step towards establishing a Venezuela-style dictatorship.Good for Honduras.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513609</id>
	<title>Who cares?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246288440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What does this have to do with Michael Jackson's death?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What does this have to do with Michael Jackson 's death ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What does this have to do with Michael Jackson's death?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514023</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>Xest</author>
	<datestamp>1246290360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Probably because the guy who has been ousted was trying to defy the constitution, defy the courts and sacked military heads who wouldn't assist him in doing so.</p><p>Effectively what is happening in Honduras is an example of what should ideally happen if a leader attempts to become a dictator (i.e. he gets removed), whilst Iran is an example of what shouldn't happen (i.e. the people get violently supressed).</p><p>The Honduras result is really a good one, he was trying to copy Chavez, the difference is he didn't have the support to do so. It's probably worth realising that copying Chavez isn't a good thing because Chavez is really no better than Ahmadinejad. Ignoring the fact they're best of friends it's probably worth noting that Chavez, like Ahmadinejad, has supressed opposition using militia etc. so again, seeing someone who wanted to follow this path ousted through a country's legal and constitutional procedures is probably a good thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably because the guy who has been ousted was trying to defy the constitution , defy the courts and sacked military heads who would n't assist him in doing so.Effectively what is happening in Honduras is an example of what should ideally happen if a leader attempts to become a dictator ( i.e .
he gets removed ) , whilst Iran is an example of what should n't happen ( i.e .
the people get violently supressed ) .The Honduras result is really a good one , he was trying to copy Chavez , the difference is he did n't have the support to do so .
It 's probably worth realising that copying Chavez is n't a good thing because Chavez is really no better than Ahmadinejad .
Ignoring the fact they 're best of friends it 's probably worth noting that Chavez , like Ahmadinejad , has supressed opposition using militia etc .
so again , seeing someone who wanted to follow this path ousted through a country 's legal and constitutional procedures is probably a good thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably because the guy who has been ousted was trying to defy the constitution, defy the courts and sacked military heads who wouldn't assist him in doing so.Effectively what is happening in Honduras is an example of what should ideally happen if a leader attempts to become a dictator (i.e.
he gets removed), whilst Iran is an example of what shouldn't happen (i.e.
the people get violently supressed).The Honduras result is really a good one, he was trying to copy Chavez, the difference is he didn't have the support to do so.
It's probably worth realising that copying Chavez isn't a good thing because Chavez is really no better than Ahmadinejad.
Ignoring the fact they're best of friends it's probably worth noting that Chavez, like Ahmadinejad, has supressed opposition using militia etc.
so again, seeing someone who wanted to follow this path ousted through a country's legal and constitutional procedures is probably a good thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28518683</id>
	<title>Re:Support Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246266180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can simply operate a TOR relay configured to not be an exit node. Replace your exit policy in the configuration file by :</p><p>ExitPolicy reject *:*</p><p>You will still help the global TOR network, because you're sharing bandwith as an entry and intermediary node; and you won't risk anything because no  "illegal content" will exit from your node to the public internet. Half of tor nodes are not exit nodes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can simply operate a TOR relay configured to not be an exit node .
Replace your exit policy in the configuration file by : ExitPolicy reject * : * You will still help the global TOR network , because you 're sharing bandwith as an entry and intermediary node ; and you wo n't risk anything because no " illegal content " will exit from your node to the public internet .
Half of tor nodes are not exit nodes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can simply operate a TOR relay configured to not be an exit node.
Replace your exit policy in the configuration file by :ExitPolicy reject *:*You will still help the global TOR network, because you're sharing bandwith as an entry and intermediary node; and you won't risk anything because no  "illegal content" will exit from your node to the public internet.
Half of tor nodes are not exit nodes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514813</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513205</id>
	<title>Re:Can't the eds even make a headline sentence now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246285860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had to read it twice too. To be fair, titles don't have to be full sentences (books, newspapers, etc.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had to read it twice too .
To be fair , titles do n't have to be full sentences ( books , newspapers , etc .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had to read it twice too.
To be fair, titles don't have to be full sentences (books, newspapers, etc.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512983</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</id>
	<title>Selective Values</title>
	<author>chord.wav</author>
	<datestamp>1246286760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>How come nobody talks what <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak47xiUSeZA" title="youtube.com">has happened this past week and is still happening in Honduras</a> [youtube.com]?<br>
<br>

How come the election in Iran provokes such a passionate response from the US (which is not bad) and a call to support them, put proxies, blablabla, but a real military coup in an american country much next to the US doesn't provoke Sh1t? Have you heard of it at least?<br>
<br>
Don't follow the imposed agenda people, trust your judgment. And apply it equally for everybody, not just the ones that your leaders want you to hate.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How come nobody talks what has happened this past week and is still happening in Honduras [ youtube.com ] ?
How come the election in Iran provokes such a passionate response from the US ( which is not bad ) and a call to support them , put proxies , blablabla , but a real military coup in an american country much next to the US does n't provoke Sh1t ?
Have you heard of it at least ?
Do n't follow the imposed agenda people , trust your judgment .
And apply it equally for everybody , not just the ones that your leaders want you to hate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How come nobody talks what has happened this past week and is still happening in Honduras [youtube.com]?
How come the election in Iran provokes such a passionate response from the US (which is not bad) and a call to support them, put proxies, blablabla, but a real military coup in an american country much next to the US doesn't provoke Sh1t?
Have you heard of it at least?
Don't follow the imposed agenda people, trust your judgment.
And apply it equally for everybody, not just the ones that your leaders want you to hate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514103</id>
	<title>All Hail King TOR!</title>
	<author>jsepeta</author>
	<datestamp>1246290720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>sorry, just had to get that in</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>sorry , just had to get that in</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sorry, just had to get that in</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515077</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>pdxp</author>
	<datestamp>1246295280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.</p></div><p>Unless your name is "The Iranians," I don't understand how you can speak in such broad terms and not be modded as a troll.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The Iranians created this horrible society. It is none of our business [...]</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</p></div><p>So, it's not our business until it's time to weigh in our thoughts? All I can say is that with that kind of attitude, I hope you too are stereotyped to be the same as everyone else in your country when it begins to collapse and everyone says, "Well, they made their own mess. Let's just condemn them all for now and take action against them if we feel threatened." I hope you don't wonder where the compassion is when you are suffering.
<br> <br>
Read some books, watch a few movies, maybe even go to Iran. Then tell me the same things you've said here without knowing you're lying. Nobody deserves to be oppressed or "condemned" for actions they cannot control.
<br> <br>
And for fuck's sake, please don't title your unsubstantiated bullshit as <em>"The Grotesquely Ugly Truth"</em>.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.Unless your name is " The Iranians , " I do n't understand how you can speak in such broad terms and not be modded as a troll.The Iranians created this horrible society .
It is none of our business [ ... ] We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.So , it 's not our business until it 's time to weigh in our thoughts ?
All I can say is that with that kind of attitude , I hope you too are stereotyped to be the same as everyone else in your country when it begins to collapse and everyone says , " Well , they made their own mess .
Let 's just condemn them all for now and take action against them if we feel threatened .
" I hope you do n't wonder where the compassion is when you are suffering .
Read some books , watch a few movies , maybe even go to Iran .
Then tell me the same things you 've said here without knowing you 're lying .
Nobody deserves to be oppressed or " condemned " for actions they can not control .
And for fuck 's sake , please do n't title your unsubstantiated bullshit as " The Grotesquely Ugly Truth " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.Unless your name is "The Iranians," I don't understand how you can speak in such broad terms and not be modded as a troll.The Iranians created this horrible society.
It is none of our business [...]We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.So, it's not our business until it's time to weigh in our thoughts?
All I can say is that with that kind of attitude, I hope you too are stereotyped to be the same as everyone else in your country when it begins to collapse and everyone says, "Well, they made their own mess.
Let's just condemn them all for now and take action against them if we feel threatened.
" I hope you don't wonder where the compassion is when you are suffering.
Read some books, watch a few movies, maybe even go to Iran.
Then tell me the same things you've said here without knowing you're lying.
Nobody deserves to be oppressed or "condemned" for actions they cannot control.
And for fuck's sake, please don't title your unsubstantiated bullshit as "The Grotesquely Ugly Truth".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513845</id>
	<title>Re:Can't the eds even make a headline sentence now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246289520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it's just you, the title seems pretty easy to understand to me.</p><p>Read it as: "The technology that is being used to keep information flowing in Iran".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's just you , the title seems pretty easy to understand to me.Read it as : " The technology that is being used to keep information flowing in Iran " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's just you, the title seems pretty easy to understand to me.Read it as: "The technology that is being used to keep information flowing in Iran".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512983</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28524539</id>
	<title>Tin</title>
	<author>falconwolf</author>
	<datestamp>1246299480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>This is what happened in Tiananmen Square in China: The students who rose up were not joined by others. Military forces who were not only loyal to the regime but hostile to the students were brought in, and the students were crushed.</i></p><p>Yes military units had to be brought in, because <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/07/world/turmoil-in-china-legions-of-soldiers-encircling-beijing-loyalty-to-whom.html?sec=&amp;spon=&amp;pagewanted=all" title="nytimes.com">local army units</a> [nytimes.com] refused to fire on the protesters.  <a href="http://www.chinaworker.org/en/content/news/749/" title="chinaworker.org">Deng Xiaoping</a> [chinaworker.org] even "went as far as ordering the 12th Army, with which he had a close relationship, be moved to Beijing soon after 4 June to guard against a military coup".</p><p>

Falcon</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is what happened in Tiananmen Square in China : The students who rose up were not joined by others .
Military forces who were not only loyal to the regime but hostile to the students were brought in , and the students were crushed.Yes military units had to be brought in , because local army units [ nytimes.com ] refused to fire on the protesters .
Deng Xiaoping [ chinaworker.org ] even " went as far as ordering the 12th Army , with which he had a close relationship , be moved to Beijing soon after 4 June to guard against a military coup " .
Falcon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is what happened in Tiananmen Square in China: The students who rose up were not joined by others.
Military forces who were not only loyal to the regime but hostile to the students were brought in, and the students were crushed.Yes military units had to be brought in, because local army units [nytimes.com] refused to fire on the protesters.
Deng Xiaoping [chinaworker.org] even "went as far as ordering the 12th Army, with which he had a close relationship, be moved to Beijing soon after 4 June to guard against a military coup".
Falcon</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513525</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28515343</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246296360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It could be just 1916 Ireland - the vanguard are defeated but in crushing the country is mobilized first democratically 1918 and finally with the bullet 1922-1923.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It could be just 1916 Ireland - the vanguard are defeated but in crushing the country is mobilized first democratically 1918 and finally with the bullet 1922-1923 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It could be just 1916 Ireland - the vanguard are defeated but in crushing the country is mobilized first democratically 1918 and finally with the bullet 1922-1923.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513525</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28517147</id>
	<title>Re:questions on setting up a TOR relay</title>
	<author>linuxpyro</author>
	<datestamp>1246303140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As others have mentioned, just running a node without an exit policy is still very beneficial.  It will still make the network faster, especially with hidden sites, which are only available on the TOR network.  And, if you are going to run an exit, I think that the best course of action would be something like a dedicated box in another country, maybe Germany.  Maybe even find a provider who will give you a couple IPs, so you can designate one for TOR, and use the other for Web hosting or whatever.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As others have mentioned , just running a node without an exit policy is still very beneficial .
It will still make the network faster , especially with hidden sites , which are only available on the TOR network .
And , if you are going to run an exit , I think that the best course of action would be something like a dedicated box in another country , maybe Germany .
Maybe even find a provider who will give you a couple IPs , so you can designate one for TOR , and use the other for Web hosting or whatever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As others have mentioned, just running a node without an exit policy is still very beneficial.
It will still make the network faster, especially with hidden sites, which are only available on the TOR network.
And, if you are going to run an exit, I think that the best course of action would be something like a dedicated box in another country, maybe Germany.
Maybe even find a provider who will give you a couple IPs, so you can designate one for TOR, and use the other for Web hosting or whatever.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514787</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513447</id>
	<title>Re:Government setting up TOR nodes?</title>
	<author>networkconsultant</author>
	<datestamp>1246287360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They have trouble hosting honest elections and you think they can hire that many IT consultants? Whom would be sympathetic to setting up Tor and doing Packet Inspection? (Most of the security guys I know like their clearance).</htmltext>
<tokenext>They have trouble hosting honest elections and you think they can hire that many IT consultants ?
Whom would be sympathetic to setting up Tor and doing Packet Inspection ?
( Most of the security guys I know like their clearance ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They have trouble hosting honest elections and you think they can hire that many IT consultants?
Whom would be sympathetic to setting up Tor and doing Packet Inspection?
(Most of the security guys I know like their clearance).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513225</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514589</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246293000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What utter clap-trap.<br>Haven't they had enough of our interference already?</p><p>If you are in any way attempted to agree with that pile above, there's a reasonably good piece over here that's worth a read:<br>http://www.sundayherald.com/oped/opinion/display.var.2516867.0.0.php</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What utter clap-trap.Have n't they had enough of our interference already ? If you are in any way attempted to agree with that pile above , there 's a reasonably good piece over here that 's worth a read : http : //www.sundayherald.com/oped/opinion/display.var.2516867.0.0.php</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What utter clap-trap.Haven't they had enough of our interference already?If you are in any way attempted to agree with that pile above, there's a reasonably good piece over here that's worth a read:http://www.sundayherald.com/oped/opinion/display.var.2516867.0.0.php</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514685</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>Coward Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246293420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oil.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oil.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514625</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246293180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why not say the truth out loud ? The problem is islam. The problem is muslims.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not say the truth out loud ?
The problem is islam .
The problem is muslims .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not say the truth out loud ?
The problem is islam.
The problem is muslims.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513437</id>
	<title>Zmodem?</title>
	<author>localman57</author>
	<datestamp>1246287300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>There seems to be all of this press about how people are getting information out using the internet.  But back in the early 90's, before I had access to the internet, my friends and I used to transfer information and files from one place to another using two modems connected via a plain old telephone line, sending files back and forth using Zmodem protocol.  Is this technique still being used?  I'm picturing someone using an acoustic coupler on a pay phone to send small cellphone videos out of Iran to a friendly party...</htmltext>
<tokenext>There seems to be all of this press about how people are getting information out using the internet .
But back in the early 90 's , before I had access to the internet , my friends and I used to transfer information and files from one place to another using two modems connected via a plain old telephone line , sending files back and forth using Zmodem protocol .
Is this technique still being used ?
I 'm picturing someone using an acoustic coupler on a pay phone to send small cellphone videos out of Iran to a friendly party.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There seems to be all of this press about how people are getting information out using the internet.
But back in the early 90's, before I had access to the internet, my friends and I used to transfer information and files from one place to another using two modems connected via a plain old telephone line, sending files back and forth using Zmodem protocol.
Is this technique still being used?
I'm picturing someone using an acoustic coupler on a pay phone to send small cellphone videos out of Iran to a friendly party...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28523669</id>
	<title>FSOSA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246291200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Free Speech or Stone Age.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Free Speech or Stone Age .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Free Speech or Stone Age.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512981</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28512981</id>
	<title>All this time...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246284240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sheesh, all this time folks were talking about TOR I thought they were being lazy and shortening Torrent. I learn something new every day!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sheesh , all this time folks were talking about TOR I thought they were being lazy and shortening Torrent .
I learn something new every day !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sheesh, all this time folks were talking about TOR I thought they were being lazy and shortening Torrent.
I learn something new every day!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513571</id>
	<title>TOR in repressive countries.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246288260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used TOR to communicate while 'working' in several repressive M.E., S.W.A. and African countries.  While it works, it does not work well (veeerrrrrryyyyyy sloooowwwww...).  I found much better success setting up Linksys WRT's with DD-WRT running as OpenVPN POPs in various free (as in speech) countries around the world (make friends on your travels -- give them a free WRT).  Run the servers listening on 443 (bypassed 100\% of the VPN filtering going on in said repressive/oppressive at the time) and run the client on my machine.  If you do this, remember to set for lport and rport, otherwise you're not using pure 443 (and you'll stick out like a sore thumb).  Cheers!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used TOR to communicate while 'working ' in several repressive M.E. , S.W.A .
and African countries .
While it works , it does not work well ( veeerrrrrryyyyyy sloooowwwww... ) .
I found much better success setting up Linksys WRT 's with DD-WRT running as OpenVPN POPs in various free ( as in speech ) countries around the world ( make friends on your travels -- give them a free WRT ) .
Run the servers listening on 443 ( bypassed 100 \ % of the VPN filtering going on in said repressive/oppressive at the time ) and run the client on my machine .
If you do this , remember to set for lport and rport , otherwise you 're not using pure 443 ( and you 'll stick out like a sore thumb ) .
Cheers !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used TOR to communicate while 'working' in several repressive M.E., S.W.A.
and African countries.
While it works, it does not work well (veeerrrrrryyyyyy sloooowwwww...).
I found much better success setting up Linksys WRT's with DD-WRT running as OpenVPN POPs in various free (as in speech) countries around the world (make friends on your travels -- give them a free WRT).
Run the servers listening on 443 (bypassed 100\% of the VPN filtering going on in said repressive/oppressive at the time) and run the client on my machine.
If you do this, remember to set for lport and rport, otherwise you're not using pure 443 (and you'll stick out like a sore thumb).
Cheers!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513413</id>
	<title>It's not that easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246287180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To defeat TOR they would have to make sure at least a certain amount of traffic went through their nodes.</p><p>If the Iranians wanted to interfere with TOR, they could.  How is left as an exercise to the reader^H^H^H^Hgime.</p><p>Quote of the day:  TOR, it's not just for porn any more.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>To defeat TOR they would have to make sure at least a certain amount of traffic went through their nodes.If the Iranians wanted to interfere with TOR , they could .
How is left as an exercise to the reader ^ H ^ H ^ H ^ Hgime.Quote of the day : TOR , it 's not just for porn any more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To defeat TOR they would have to make sure at least a certain amount of traffic went through their nodes.If the Iranians wanted to interfere with TOR, they could.
How is left as an exercise to the reader^H^H^H^Hgime.Quote of the day:  TOR, it's not just for porn any more.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514405</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>scorilo</author>
	<datestamp>1246292280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every "revolution" in Eastern Europe took place with considerable (albeit covert) Western support. It wasn't open military intervention, but to claim the regime changes in Eastern Europe and especially Romania happened with no external help, as some might interpret your words, is shortsighted.</p><p>OTOH I don't think a military intervention is the way to go in countries like Iran. Any attempt to help, in the slightest manner, would be used against the West.Watch the MEMRI videos on YouTube - these guys claimed that Soros was working with Bush to destroy them (!!!).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every " revolution " in Eastern Europe took place with considerable ( albeit covert ) Western support .
It was n't open military intervention , but to claim the regime changes in Eastern Europe and especially Romania happened with no external help , as some might interpret your words , is shortsighted.OTOH I do n't think a military intervention is the way to go in countries like Iran .
Any attempt to help , in the slightest manner , would be used against the West.Watch the MEMRI videos on YouTube - these guys claimed that Soros was working with Bush to destroy them ( ! ! !
) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every "revolution" in Eastern Europe took place with considerable (albeit covert) Western support.
It wasn't open military intervention, but to claim the regime changes in Eastern Europe and especially Romania happened with no external help, as some might interpret your words, is shortsighted.OTOH I don't think a military intervention is the way to go in countries like Iran.
Any attempt to help, in the slightest manner, would be used against the West.Watch the MEMRI videos on YouTube - these guys claimed that Soros was working with Bush to destroy them (!!!
).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513177</id>
	<title>article is so wrong</title>
	<author>spotter</author>
	<datestamp>1246285620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the reporter of that article is an idiot.</p><p>Onion Routing was invented at the Naval Research Lab, but it had nothing to do with ships.</p><p>If the reporter would have done a cursory reading of <a href="http://www.onion-router.net/" title="onion-router.net">http://www.onion-router.net/</a> [onion-router.net], which is the page the creators made, the reporter would not have found any mention of ships on the description or summary of what onion routing is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the reporter of that article is an idiot.Onion Routing was invented at the Naval Research Lab , but it had nothing to do with ships.If the reporter would have done a cursory reading of http : //www.onion-router.net/ [ onion-router.net ] , which is the page the creators made , the reporter would not have found any mention of ships on the description or summary of what onion routing is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the reporter of that article is an idiot.Onion Routing was invented at the Naval Research Lab, but it had nothing to do with ships.If the reporter would have done a cursory reading of http://www.onion-router.net/ [onion-router.net], which is the page the creators made, the reporter would not have found any mention of ships on the description or summary of what onion routing is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28516635</id>
	<title>Re:questions on setting up a TOR relay</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246301220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For people on broadband connections with long term DHCP leases, one tactic is to spoof the MAC address of your gateway device. Refresh DHCP and voila, a fresh IP address. Then if you need to access those prima donna sites, you can temporarily halt your exit node and flip back to your baseline MAC address!</p><p>Caveat: If your ISP makes you go through some stupid registration sequence whenever a new MAC is added to their network, this may be more of a pain in the ass than you're willing to deal with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For people on broadband connections with long term DHCP leases , one tactic is to spoof the MAC address of your gateway device .
Refresh DHCP and voila , a fresh IP address .
Then if you need to access those prima donna sites , you can temporarily halt your exit node and flip back to your baseline MAC address ! Caveat : If your ISP makes you go through some stupid registration sequence whenever a new MAC is added to their network , this may be more of a pain in the ass than you 're willing to deal with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For people on broadband connections with long term DHCP leases, one tactic is to spoof the MAC address of your gateway device.
Refresh DHCP and voila, a fresh IP address.
Then if you need to access those prima donna sites, you can temporarily halt your exit node and flip back to your baseline MAC address!Caveat: If your ISP makes you go through some stupid registration sequence whenever a new MAC is added to their network, this may be more of a pain in the ass than you're willing to deal with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514787</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28517291</id>
	<title>Re:Zmodem?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246303680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, but you must use a public telephone, never a home phone to do this (if you live in a 3rd-world dictatorship).  Listen to Dr. Evil &#226;" telephone logs are just like DNS logs.  They record exactly who called who when and for how long.  They also note fax/data calls vs. voice calls and may be able to tell fax from PC modems.  Use a pay phone, a restaurant phone, an office phone line, or "borrow" someone else's phone.   It's not hard to sift the logs for data calls and then filter for calls that do not go to known dial-up ISP phone numbers.  The authorities in Iran are not stupid.  They have jet fighters and nuclear power.</p><p>If someone in the 3rd world naively follows your advice from a home phone line, they'll bring the secret police right to their door in short order.  The call will stick out like a sore thumb in the phone logs.</p><p>But your advice is good - modems can zmodem/kermit/xmodem files over the phone very quickly.  With a fast CPU Zmodem is very quick.  The problem is tracking it back to the house is also very, very easy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , but you must use a public telephone , never a home phone to do this ( if you live in a 3rd-world dictatorship ) .
Listen to Dr. Evil   " telephone logs are just like DNS logs .
They record exactly who called who when and for how long .
They also note fax/data calls vs. voice calls and may be able to tell fax from PC modems .
Use a pay phone , a restaurant phone , an office phone line , or " borrow " someone else 's phone .
It 's not hard to sift the logs for data calls and then filter for calls that do not go to known dial-up ISP phone numbers .
The authorities in Iran are not stupid .
They have jet fighters and nuclear power.If someone in the 3rd world naively follows your advice from a home phone line , they 'll bring the secret police right to their door in short order .
The call will stick out like a sore thumb in the phone logs.But your advice is good - modems can zmodem/kermit/xmodem files over the phone very quickly .
With a fast CPU Zmodem is very quick .
The problem is tracking it back to the house is also very , very easy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, but you must use a public telephone, never a home phone to do this (if you live in a 3rd-world dictatorship).
Listen to Dr. Evil â" telephone logs are just like DNS logs.
They record exactly who called who when and for how long.
They also note fax/data calls vs. voice calls and may be able to tell fax from PC modems.
Use a pay phone, a restaurant phone, an office phone line, or "borrow" someone else's phone.
It's not hard to sift the logs for data calls and then filter for calls that do not go to known dial-up ISP phone numbers.
The authorities in Iran are not stupid.
They have jet fighters and nuclear power.If someone in the 3rd world naively follows your advice from a home phone line, they'll bring the secret police right to their door in short order.
The call will stick out like a sore thumb in the phone logs.But your advice is good - modems can zmodem/kermit/xmodem files over the phone very quickly.
With a fast CPU Zmodem is very quick.
The problem is tracking it back to the house is also very, very easy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513437</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513077</id>
	<title>Accessing a TOR server is enough to get killed?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246284780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I mean, perhaps they don't even care what are you saying, just that you try to hide it... How can you access a Tor network without them knowing? With another Tor network?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean , perhaps they do n't even care what are you saying , just that you try to hide it... How can you access a Tor network without them knowing ?
With another Tor network ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean, perhaps they don't even care what are you saying, just that you try to hide it... How can you access a Tor network without them knowing?
With another Tor network?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28521813</id>
	<title>Re:Support Them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246279260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet, but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay. What can be done about this?</p></div><p>Get a different IP address. If you need to run static IP's, get a block of 5 and run your TOR exit node off of one, the rest of your traffic on another.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The second problem comes from another point of view. What can I do, as a TOR relay operator, to protect myself from potentially getting harassed by law enforcement non-stop?</p></div><p>Not much. You see, all law enforcement views someone who gives anonymity to all takers to be a criminal themselves.</p><p>With that in mind, about the only way you could prevent law enforcement bothering you is to go talk to your local FBI, etc. Give them a login to your network so they can packet-grab your traffic and full access to your machines. As long as you are viewed as aiding them, you get to have immunity yourself. Sad, but true.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet , but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay .
What can be done about this ? Get a different IP address .
If you need to run static IP 's , get a block of 5 and run your TOR exit node off of one , the rest of your traffic on another.The second problem comes from another point of view .
What can I do , as a TOR relay operator , to protect myself from potentially getting harassed by law enforcement non-stop ? Not much .
You see , all law enforcement views someone who gives anonymity to all takers to be a criminal themselves.With that in mind , about the only way you could prevent law enforcement bothering you is to go talk to your local FBI , etc .
Give them a login to your network so they can packet-grab your traffic and full access to your machines .
As long as you are viewed as aiding them , you get to have immunity yourself .
Sad , but true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously I want to support the cause of having anonymity on the internet, but I am not really sure that this price of not being able to use internet properly myself is a price I am willing to pay.
What can be done about this?Get a different IP address.
If you need to run static IP's, get a block of 5 and run your TOR exit node off of one, the rest of your traffic on another.The second problem comes from another point of view.
What can I do, as a TOR relay operator, to protect myself from potentially getting harassed by law enforcement non-stop?Not much.
You see, all law enforcement views someone who gives anonymity to all takers to be a criminal themselves.With that in mind, about the only way you could prevent law enforcement bothering you is to go talk to your local FBI, etc.
Give them a login to your network so they can packet-grab your traffic and full access to your machines.
As long as you are viewed as aiding them, you get to have immunity yourself.
Sad, but true.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514813</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514723</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>genjix</author>
	<datestamp>1246293540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You are wrong. Those who support the government are a ruthless ideological minority. Those who oppose are a burgeoning young middle class with little propensity for violence.

Having lived there I can tell you that everyone hates oppression and the oppressors.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are wrong .
Those who support the government are a ruthless ideological minority .
Those who oppose are a burgeoning young middle class with little propensity for violence .
Having lived there I can tell you that everyone hates oppression and the oppressors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are wrong.
Those who support the government are a ruthless ideological minority.
Those who oppose are a burgeoning young middle class with little propensity for violence.
Having lived there I can tell you that everyone hates oppression and the oppressors.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514439</id>
	<title>I hate to sound alarmist</title>
	<author>The\_AV8R</author>
	<datestamp>1246292460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Call it naivety on my part, but am I the only one worried about National governments studying the Iranian uprising, in search of countermeasures to YouTube and Twitter?

Judging from various<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6297149.stm" title="bbc.co.uk" rel="nofollow"> crowd control measures</a> [bbc.co.uk] being implemented (such as <a href="http://www.europarl.europa.eu/stoa/publications/studies/19991401a\_en.pdf" title="europa.eu" rel="nofollow">50,000 volt riot shields</a> [europa.eu], I'm sure there is an interest in figuring out a way around everything people are doing in Iran. I can easily see the physical destruction of a website's servers to be on the top of a government contingency plan. Cut power to Twitter's servers? Done.

I hate conspiracy theories, and am looking for anyone to tear me apart on this one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Call it naivety on my part , but am I the only one worried about National governments studying the Iranian uprising , in search of countermeasures to YouTube and Twitter ?
Judging from various crowd control measures [ bbc.co.uk ] being implemented ( such as 50,000 volt riot shields [ europa.eu ] , I 'm sure there is an interest in figuring out a way around everything people are doing in Iran .
I can easily see the physical destruction of a website 's servers to be on the top of a government contingency plan .
Cut power to Twitter 's servers ?
Done . I hate conspiracy theories , and am looking for anyone to tear me apart on this one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Call it naivety on my part, but am I the only one worried about National governments studying the Iranian uprising, in search of countermeasures to YouTube and Twitter?
Judging from various crowd control measures [bbc.co.uk] being implemented (such as 50,000 volt riot shields [europa.eu], I'm sure there is an interest in figuring out a way around everything people are doing in Iran.
I can easily see the physical destruction of a website's servers to be on the top of a government contingency plan.
Cut power to Twitter's servers?
Done.

I hate conspiracy theories, and am looking for anyone to tear me apart on this one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513679</id>
	<title>Eric &amp; Emad: Iranian Hackers &amp; Cyber-Buddi</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246288800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.trollaxor.com/2009/06/eric-emad-iranian-hackers-cyber-buddies.html" title="trollaxor.com" rel="nofollow">Eric &amp; Emad: Iranian Hackers &amp; Cyber-Buddies</a> [trollaxor.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Eric &amp; Emad : Iranian Hackers &amp; Cyber-Buddies [ trollaxor.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Eric &amp; Emad: Iranian Hackers &amp; Cyber-Buddies [trollaxor.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513011</id>
	<title>Hmmm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246284420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You almost have to wonder if this scares the crap out of the powers that be. That something they created could, in theory, be something that fuels their eventual downfall, (assuming things ever got really bad....)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You almost have to wonder if this scares the crap out of the powers that be .
That something they created could , in theory , be something that fuels their eventual downfall , ( assuming things ever got really bad.... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You almost have to wonder if this scares the crap out of the powers that be.
That something they created could, in theory, be something that fuels their eventual downfall, (assuming things ever got really bad....)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513955</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>knutkracker</author>
	<datestamp>1246290060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's the story. A good story bypasses the rational parts of our brains, goes straight to the emotions and grabs us.<br> <br>

The subtext of the Iran story is about the surprise of realising that a people we previously thought of as hostile (and frankly a bit too Muslim for comfort) are as much against their crazy muppet of a ruler as we are and decidedly less Muslim than the scary hard-line ones (relaxed dress codes, keen to party). It's the underdogs fighting The Man and we especially identify with the underdogs, because they use Twitter and speak English on TV. It has resonance.<br> <br>

It shouldn't work that way, but it does. Compare to a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">certain recent internet phenomenon</a> [youtube.com]. Someone who we previously thought was ugly (and a bit too Scottish for most Western tastes), is as good a singer as any that the crazy muppet Simon Cowell could point to. It's the underdog fighting The Man and we especially identify with the underdog because she sings in a perfect English accent and embodies all of our fairytale ideas of how the world should ideally be.<br> <br>

We don't care about Honduras for the same reasons we don't care about Fabia Cerra (Who? Exactly!) - the story has no resonance, so we ignore it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the story .
A good story bypasses the rational parts of our brains , goes straight to the emotions and grabs us .
The subtext of the Iran story is about the surprise of realising that a people we previously thought of as hostile ( and frankly a bit too Muslim for comfort ) are as much against their crazy muppet of a ruler as we are and decidedly less Muslim than the scary hard-line ones ( relaxed dress codes , keen to party ) .
It 's the underdogs fighting The Man and we especially identify with the underdogs , because they use Twitter and speak English on TV .
It has resonance .
It should n't work that way , but it does .
Compare to a certain recent internet phenomenon [ youtube.com ] .
Someone who we previously thought was ugly ( and a bit too Scottish for most Western tastes ) , is as good a singer as any that the crazy muppet Simon Cowell could point to .
It 's the underdog fighting The Man and we especially identify with the underdog because she sings in a perfect English accent and embodies all of our fairytale ideas of how the world should ideally be .
We do n't care about Honduras for the same reasons we do n't care about Fabia Cerra ( Who ?
Exactly ! ) - the story has no resonance , so we ignore it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the story.
A good story bypasses the rational parts of our brains, goes straight to the emotions and grabs us.
The subtext of the Iran story is about the surprise of realising that a people we previously thought of as hostile (and frankly a bit too Muslim for comfort) are as much against their crazy muppet of a ruler as we are and decidedly less Muslim than the scary hard-line ones (relaxed dress codes, keen to party).
It's the underdogs fighting The Man and we especially identify with the underdogs, because they use Twitter and speak English on TV.
It has resonance.
It shouldn't work that way, but it does.
Compare to a certain recent internet phenomenon [youtube.com].
Someone who we previously thought was ugly (and a bit too Scottish for most Western tastes), is as good a singer as any that the crazy muppet Simon Cowell could point to.
It's the underdog fighting The Man and we especially identify with the underdog because she sings in a perfect English accent and embodies all of our fairytale ideas of how the world should ideally be.
We don't care about Honduras for the same reasons we don't care about Fabia Cerra (Who?
Exactly!) - the story has no resonance, so we ignore it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28517707</id>
	<title>Re:questions on setting up a TOR relay</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246305300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are exactly right.</p><p>Residential broadband + Tor = trouble.  It's probably also a violation of your Terms-of-Service.  You could get your service reclassified as "Business internet" because you're running outgoing services, forcing you to accept a higher monthly bill or cancel.  It's happened to other broadband customers for less than running a Tor relay.  Put yourself in the phone company or the FBI's shoes.  How do you think they feel about your Tor relay?  What do you think they see when they notice that kind of activity?</p><p>Blacklists are a real problem, but again but yourself in the website owner's position.  Bot, spam, cracks, and DOS attacks hammer their servers, often traced back to... open proxies, Tor relays, free shell account hosts, and hosts that allow IRC bots.  All the time.  Over and over.  And it costs them real time and money.  Anonymity is great, but it's more often exploited for crime than for "struggle" against whatever we're protesting this week.  Tor is not a secret.  If you want to conduct real espionage and not get noticed, using a tool the ENTIRE internet knows about that everyone can download isn't going to veil your operations.  That's just stupid.  Notice in Vidalia there are many Tor relays in Washington D.C.  What are those for?  Think it through!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are exactly right.Residential broadband + Tor = trouble .
It 's probably also a violation of your Terms-of-Service .
You could get your service reclassified as " Business internet " because you 're running outgoing services , forcing you to accept a higher monthly bill or cancel .
It 's happened to other broadband customers for less than running a Tor relay .
Put yourself in the phone company or the FBI 's shoes .
How do you think they feel about your Tor relay ?
What do you think they see when they notice that kind of activity ? Blacklists are a real problem , but again but yourself in the website owner 's position .
Bot , spam , cracks , and DOS attacks hammer their servers , often traced back to... open proxies , Tor relays , free shell account hosts , and hosts that allow IRC bots .
All the time .
Over and over .
And it costs them real time and money .
Anonymity is great , but it 's more often exploited for crime than for " struggle " against whatever we 're protesting this week .
Tor is not a secret .
If you want to conduct real espionage and not get noticed , using a tool the ENTIRE internet knows about that everyone can download is n't going to veil your operations .
That 's just stupid .
Notice in Vidalia there are many Tor relays in Washington D.C. What are those for ?
Think it through !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are exactly right.Residential broadband + Tor = trouble.
It's probably also a violation of your Terms-of-Service.
You could get your service reclassified as "Business internet" because you're running outgoing services, forcing you to accept a higher monthly bill or cancel.
It's happened to other broadband customers for less than running a Tor relay.
Put yourself in the phone company or the FBI's shoes.
How do you think they feel about your Tor relay?
What do you think they see when they notice that kind of activity?Blacklists are a real problem, but again but yourself in the website owner's position.
Bot, spam, cracks, and DOS attacks hammer their servers, often traced back to... open proxies, Tor relays, free shell account hosts, and hosts that allow IRC bots.
All the time.
Over and over.
And it costs them real time and money.
Anonymity is great, but it's more often exploited for crime than for "struggle" against whatever we're protesting this week.
Tor is not a secret.
If you want to conduct real espionage and not get noticed, using a tool the ENTIRE internet knows about that everyone can download isn't going to veil your operations.
That's just stupid.
Notice in Vidalia there are many Tor relays in Washington D.C.  What are those for?
Think it through!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28514787</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513421</id>
	<title>The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246287180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people. Period.
<p>
After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market. Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
</p><p>
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians. The folks running the government are Iranian. The president is Iranian. The secret police are Iranian. The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
</p><p>
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur. Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
</p><p>
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government. We must condemn Iranian culture. Its product is the authoritarian state.
</p><p>
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran. If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence. Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy. The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
</p><p>
The Iranians created this horrible society. It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons. We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
</p><p>
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans. They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people. Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West. Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society. They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
</p><p>
Cultures are different. Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different. The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran. We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the absence of an external interfering force ( e. g. , army of the Soviet Union ) , the fate of a nation is determined by its people .
Period . After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe , the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market .
Except for Romania ( where its people killed their dictator ) , there was no violence .
In Iran ( and many other failed states ) , no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians .
The folks running the government are Iranian .
The president is Iranian .
The secret police are Iranian .
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian .
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran , violence will occur .
Why ? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates .
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government .
We must condemn Iranian culture .
Its product is the authoritarian state .
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran .
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians ( like the overwhelming majority of Poles ) truly support democracy , human rights , and peace with Israel , then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence .
Right now , the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy .
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy .
The Iranians created this horrible society .
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons .
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities .
Note that , 40 years ago , Vietnam suffered a worse fate ( than the Iranians ) at the hands of the Americans .
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange , poisoning both the land and the people .
Yet , the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge ( by , e. g. , building a nuclear bomb ) against the West .
Rather , the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society .
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians .
Cultures are different .
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different .
The Iranians bear 100 \ % of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran .
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people.
Period.

After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market.
Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.
The folks running the government are Iranian.
The president is Iranian.
The secret police are Iranian.
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur.
Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government.
We must condemn Iranian culture.
Its product is the authoritarian state.
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran.
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence.
Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy.
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
The Iranians created this horrible society.
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans.
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people.
Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West.
Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society.
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
Cultures are different.
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different.
The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran.
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513511</id>
	<title>Re:Selective Values</title>
	<author>yachius</author>
	<datestamp>1246287780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>You mean besides for the LA Times and every other major newspaper in the US? And Slate? And a million other blogs with admins who have an interest in these events?

It isn't tech related at all, there's no great cry for democracy. It's just another coup in an insignificant country.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean besides for the LA Times and every other major newspaper in the US ?
And Slate ?
And a million other blogs with admins who have an interest in these events ?
It is n't tech related at all , there 's no great cry for democracy .
It 's just another coup in an insignificant country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean besides for the LA Times and every other major newspaper in the US?
And Slate?
And a million other blogs with admins who have an interest in these events?
It isn't tech related at all, there's no great cry for democracy.
It's just another coup in an insignificant country.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1230216.28513353</parent>
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