<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_28_0459209</id>
	<title>Why Don't MMOs Allow Easier Transportation?</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1246185480000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Rock, Paper, Shotgun is running an opinion piece which asks why the majority of MMOs <a href="http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/26/why-cant-i-teleport-in-mmos/">force users to spend a fair portion of their time traveling</a> around a virtual world. At what point does moving from one location to another become a chore? From the article:
<i>"I love big, explorable worlds. They're by far one of my most favourite things about games. Running off in a direction without any idea what I might encounter is a rare pleasure, and one far more likely to result in an exciting discovery in a game's world than the real one. ... Not knowing what's coming up is huge and exciting, and I'd not want to take it away from gaming, not ever. But you know what? Once I've been there, that moment's gone. I've discovered it already. I did the exploring. I don't need to spend half an hour of my time that I've allocated for playing games trudging at whatever stupidly slow speed a game's decided to impose upon me. There is no good reason, whatsoever, to not just let me be there."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rock , Paper , Shotgun is running an opinion piece which asks why the majority of MMOs force users to spend a fair portion of their time traveling around a virtual world .
At what point does moving from one location to another become a chore ?
From the article : " I love big , explorable worlds .
They 're by far one of my most favourite things about games .
Running off in a direction without any idea what I might encounter is a rare pleasure , and one far more likely to result in an exciting discovery in a game 's world than the real one .
... Not knowing what 's coming up is huge and exciting , and I 'd not want to take it away from gaming , not ever .
But you know what ?
Once I 've been there , that moment 's gone .
I 've discovered it already .
I did the exploring .
I do n't need to spend half an hour of my time that I 've allocated for playing games trudging at whatever stupidly slow speed a game 's decided to impose upon me .
There is no good reason , whatsoever , to not just let me be there .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rock, Paper, Shotgun is running an opinion piece which asks why the majority of MMOs force users to spend a fair portion of their time traveling around a virtual world.
At what point does moving from one location to another become a chore?
From the article:
"I love big, explorable worlds.
They're by far one of my most favourite things about games.
Running off in a direction without any idea what I might encounter is a rare pleasure, and one far more likely to result in an exciting discovery in a game's world than the real one.
... Not knowing what's coming up is huge and exciting, and I'd not want to take it away from gaming, not ever.
But you know what?
Once I've been there, that moment's gone.
I've discovered it already.
I did the exploring.
I don't need to spend half an hour of my time that I've allocated for playing games trudging at whatever stupidly slow speed a game's decided to impose upon me.
There is no good reason, whatsoever, to not just let me be there.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28538097</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>CyberNigma</author>
	<datestamp>1246377900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It sounds to me like most of the posters here would agree with removing Mage teleportation and warlock summoning from WoW because it makes the world feel small.  Most of them aren't talking lore-wise (some are), just that instant travel makes the world small, period..  Either that or they just don't want others to have that ability unless they play a Mage/Warlock like them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds to me like most of the posters here would agree with removing Mage teleportation and warlock summoning from WoW because it makes the world feel small .
Most of them are n't talking lore-wise ( some are ) , just that instant travel makes the world small , period.. Either that or they just do n't want others to have that ability unless they play a Mage/Warlock like them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds to me like most of the posters here would agree with removing Mage teleportation and warlock summoning from WoW because it makes the world feel small.
Most of them aren't talking lore-wise (some are), just that instant travel makes the world small, period..  Either that or they just don't want others to have that ability unless they play a Mage/Warlock like them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28508537</id>
	<title>Re:Guilds Wars method</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246197360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"But who's gonna spend from 30 mins to an hour in WoW going to a lowbie area and back just to help somebody else? let alone sell or give out stuff to random newbies. From what I've heard playing the lv1-60 content in WoW these days is pretty much like playing a single-player RPG, except with a monthly fee, and that's very much a result of long travel times, IMHO."</p><p>Well, now i'm probably trolling...</p><p>but I would have thought 1-60 content would be single player RPG like because no one else your level is doing it?<br>There are penalties for high level characters helping you do stuff like reduced xp. I would argue that it has a lot more to do with this than travel time. Wow has no system of lowering a characters level to match.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" But who 's gon na spend from 30 mins to an hour in WoW going to a lowbie area and back just to help somebody else ?
let alone sell or give out stuff to random newbies .
From what I 've heard playing the lv1-60 content in WoW these days is pretty much like playing a single-player RPG , except with a monthly fee , and that 's very much a result of long travel times , IMHO .
" Well , now i 'm probably trolling...but I would have thought 1-60 content would be single player RPG like because no one else your level is doing it ? There are penalties for high level characters helping you do stuff like reduced xp .
I would argue that it has a lot more to do with this than travel time .
Wow has no system of lowering a characters level to match .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"But who's gonna spend from 30 mins to an hour in WoW going to a lowbie area and back just to help somebody else?
let alone sell or give out stuff to random newbies.
From what I've heard playing the lv1-60 content in WoW these days is pretty much like playing a single-player RPG, except with a monthly fee, and that's very much a result of long travel times, IMHO.
"Well, now i'm probably trolling...but I would have thought 1-60 content would be single player RPG like because no one else your level is doing it?There are penalties for high level characters helping you do stuff like reduced xp.
I would argue that it has a lot more to do with this than travel time.
Wow has no system of lowering a characters level to match.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504487</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504401</id>
	<title>Mimick the Human Mind</title>
	<author>Spinlock\_1977</author>
	<datestamp>1246208760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our minds seem to handle this for us in daily life.  While enduring repetitive travel (commuting, for instance), we tune out a little, our minds wander, and the more often we travel the route, the less 'immersive' the experience becomes.</p><p>Computer games could mimick this to some degree, perhaps by increasing your maximum allowable speed each time you travel a given route.  This should probably be a gradual increase of some kind, perhaps asymptotic towards an eventual uber-max, would be a good place to start.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our minds seem to handle this for us in daily life .
While enduring repetitive travel ( commuting , for instance ) , we tune out a little , our minds wander , and the more often we travel the route , the less 'immersive ' the experience becomes.Computer games could mimick this to some degree , perhaps by increasing your maximum allowable speed each time you travel a given route .
This should probably be a gradual increase of some kind , perhaps asymptotic towards an eventual uber-max , would be a good place to start .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our minds seem to handle this for us in daily life.
While enduring repetitive travel (commuting, for instance), we tune out a little, our minds wander, and the more often we travel the route, the less 'immersive' the experience becomes.Computer games could mimick this to some degree, perhaps by increasing your maximum allowable speed each time you travel a given route.
This should probably be a gradual increase of some kind, perhaps asymptotic towards an eventual uber-max, would be a good place to start.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507149</id>
	<title>It is both</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246185240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, travel is a timesink, but it also adds flavor to the world. Makes it more real. An excellent example was Star Wars Galaxies. At one point, travel between planets was only with transports that arrived every 30 minutes. A HUGE nuisance that led to much complaints and people milling about, entertaining each other, making jokes. It caused no end of problems for parties where everyone had to arrive at the right time and thight rushed to arrive just in time.</p><p>The wait time was later reduced to about 5 minutes if I remember correctly. Did it improve things? Yes and no. Together with other changes that made the game lighter it made interstellar travel trivial. people hopped back to get some supplies they left behind or to go shopping or to visit a trainer. When it was a 30 minute wait, people grouped up and once the group started to come together, someone would check the wait time and that would be the start time of the group. Miss your flight and you simply did not take part as no group was going to wait 30 minutes just because you need to kill one more critter or whatever is so important that a dozen other people got to wait for you.</p><p>You can't just teleport into mordor. If you can, the places looses something. I bring up LoTR for a reason, the MMO based on it is taking travel to a new low. In its sequel it has added automatic travel routes that are straight to enemy spawns, making it completly silly. The horse you get at the end of volume 1, can't be used in volume 2 and once you can afford the mount from volume 2, you are out of the area. Lots of quests send you all over the place, like you got nothing better to do then run back and forth. Fast travel options only become available when you no longer need them.</p><p>So yes, I agree it is also a time waster. The nature of MMO's means there has to be a delay vector. If you can play a massive RPG such as Kotor in a couple of hours or at most a day or two, then how the hell is a game company supposed to pay for content that will last years of play? Almost impossible, even if a company could afford it, just how many stories are there to be told anyway? Harlequin, the trash woman books has published in holland 3000 books. 1200 writers. That would be a MASSIVE cost to replecate for a game and then what you got? Boy meets girl, there is some confusion, it is all solved and they kiss. Players are hardly going to want to read the entire story of a quest in one dialog, so you got to travel between the parts of it, fight some mobs on the way and then there comes a fine line between time wasting and story telling.</p><p>SWG was the better game when travelling to far away places took at least some organising and grouping. Just teleporting to your destination whenever would get old very fast. Why do you think that in Star Wars the teleporter breaks down so often?</p><p>In fact, I think SWG did it right. With the 30 minute delay, it turned the journey into a staging point. Alright people, we gather at the space port in 15 minutes, get all the stuff you need, if your late, then you can try to follow us alone half an hour after every mob in the area respawned. It created focus and a sense of size without making you just sit through 30minutes of watching some animation. You could do something while waiting. Practice your craft, tell jokes, duel, etc etc.</p><p>When they removed it, together with things like the doc-buff, the game lost something. It ain't right for a straggler to be able to catch up on dagomir, slaying anything on the way alone.</p><p>Remember this, part of fellowship in lotro had already travelled far. Would have ruined the movie if they had teleported straight to gondor. Hell, they might just have teleported to rivendell, then get a lift straight to mount doom from Elronds mapping location. He been there once already, so he should be able to fast travel there according to your logic. Player friendly, but would make for a short game/story.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , travel is a timesink , but it also adds flavor to the world .
Makes it more real .
An excellent example was Star Wars Galaxies .
At one point , travel between planets was only with transports that arrived every 30 minutes .
A HUGE nuisance that led to much complaints and people milling about , entertaining each other , making jokes .
It caused no end of problems for parties where everyone had to arrive at the right time and thight rushed to arrive just in time.The wait time was later reduced to about 5 minutes if I remember correctly .
Did it improve things ?
Yes and no .
Together with other changes that made the game lighter it made interstellar travel trivial .
people hopped back to get some supplies they left behind or to go shopping or to visit a trainer .
When it was a 30 minute wait , people grouped up and once the group started to come together , someone would check the wait time and that would be the start time of the group .
Miss your flight and you simply did not take part as no group was going to wait 30 minutes just because you need to kill one more critter or whatever is so important that a dozen other people got to wait for you.You ca n't just teleport into mordor .
If you can , the places looses something .
I bring up LoTR for a reason , the MMO based on it is taking travel to a new low .
In its sequel it has added automatic travel routes that are straight to enemy spawns , making it completly silly .
The horse you get at the end of volume 1 , ca n't be used in volume 2 and once you can afford the mount from volume 2 , you are out of the area .
Lots of quests send you all over the place , like you got nothing better to do then run back and forth .
Fast travel options only become available when you no longer need them.So yes , I agree it is also a time waster .
The nature of MMO 's means there has to be a delay vector .
If you can play a massive RPG such as Kotor in a couple of hours or at most a day or two , then how the hell is a game company supposed to pay for content that will last years of play ?
Almost impossible , even if a company could afford it , just how many stories are there to be told anyway ?
Harlequin , the trash woman books has published in holland 3000 books .
1200 writers .
That would be a MASSIVE cost to replecate for a game and then what you got ?
Boy meets girl , there is some confusion , it is all solved and they kiss .
Players are hardly going to want to read the entire story of a quest in one dialog , so you got to travel between the parts of it , fight some mobs on the way and then there comes a fine line between time wasting and story telling.SWG was the better game when travelling to far away places took at least some organising and grouping .
Just teleporting to your destination whenever would get old very fast .
Why do you think that in Star Wars the teleporter breaks down so often ? In fact , I think SWG did it right .
With the 30 minute delay , it turned the journey into a staging point .
Alright people , we gather at the space port in 15 minutes , get all the stuff you need , if your late , then you can try to follow us alone half an hour after every mob in the area respawned .
It created focus and a sense of size without making you just sit through 30minutes of watching some animation .
You could do something while waiting .
Practice your craft , tell jokes , duel , etc etc.When they removed it , together with things like the doc-buff , the game lost something .
It ai n't right for a straggler to be able to catch up on dagomir , slaying anything on the way alone.Remember this , part of fellowship in lotro had already travelled far .
Would have ruined the movie if they had teleported straight to gondor .
Hell , they might just have teleported to rivendell , then get a lift straight to mount doom from Elronds mapping location .
He been there once already , so he should be able to fast travel there according to your logic .
Player friendly , but would make for a short game/story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, travel is a timesink, but it also adds flavor to the world.
Makes it more real.
An excellent example was Star Wars Galaxies.
At one point, travel between planets was only with transports that arrived every 30 minutes.
A HUGE nuisance that led to much complaints and people milling about, entertaining each other, making jokes.
It caused no end of problems for parties where everyone had to arrive at the right time and thight rushed to arrive just in time.The wait time was later reduced to about 5 minutes if I remember correctly.
Did it improve things?
Yes and no.
Together with other changes that made the game lighter it made interstellar travel trivial.
people hopped back to get some supplies they left behind or to go shopping or to visit a trainer.
When it was a 30 minute wait, people grouped up and once the group started to come together, someone would check the wait time and that would be the start time of the group.
Miss your flight and you simply did not take part as no group was going to wait 30 minutes just because you need to kill one more critter or whatever is so important that a dozen other people got to wait for you.You can't just teleport into mordor.
If you can, the places looses something.
I bring up LoTR for a reason, the MMO based on it is taking travel to a new low.
In its sequel it has added automatic travel routes that are straight to enemy spawns, making it completly silly.
The horse you get at the end of volume 1, can't be used in volume 2 and once you can afford the mount from volume 2, you are out of the area.
Lots of quests send you all over the place, like you got nothing better to do then run back and forth.
Fast travel options only become available when you no longer need them.So yes, I agree it is also a time waster.
The nature of MMO's means there has to be a delay vector.
If you can play a massive RPG such as Kotor in a couple of hours or at most a day or two, then how the hell is a game company supposed to pay for content that will last years of play?
Almost impossible, even if a company could afford it, just how many stories are there to be told anyway?
Harlequin, the trash woman books has published in holland 3000 books.
1200 writers.
That would be a MASSIVE cost to replecate for a game and then what you got?
Boy meets girl, there is some confusion, it is all solved and they kiss.
Players are hardly going to want to read the entire story of a quest in one dialog, so you got to travel between the parts of it, fight some mobs on the way and then there comes a fine line between time wasting and story telling.SWG was the better game when travelling to far away places took at least some organising and grouping.
Just teleporting to your destination whenever would get old very fast.
Why do you think that in Star Wars the teleporter breaks down so often?In fact, I think SWG did it right.
With the 30 minute delay, it turned the journey into a staging point.
Alright people, we gather at the space port in 15 minutes, get all the stuff you need, if your late, then you can try to follow us alone half an hour after every mob in the area respawned.
It created focus and a sense of size without making you just sit through 30minutes of watching some animation.
You could do something while waiting.
Practice your craft, tell jokes, duel, etc etc.When they removed it, together with things like the doc-buff, the game lost something.
It ain't right for a straggler to be able to catch up on dagomir, slaying anything on the way alone.Remember this, part of fellowship in lotro had already travelled far.
Would have ruined the movie if they had teleported straight to gondor.
Hell, they might just have teleported to rivendell, then get a lift straight to mount doom from Elronds mapping location.
He been there once already, so he should be able to fast travel there according to your logic.
Player friendly, but would make for a short game/story.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28532515</id>
	<title>It's the reward system</title>
	<author>skinfaxi</author>
	<datestamp>1246390140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>WoW uses the simple ability to move fast as part of its reward system, and to add to time in-game, and to add to the grind for gold.
<p>
Who would have thought that a simple increase in movement speed would feel like such an accomplishment! It's obvious there is no technical problem with letting characters move faster - they get to eventually, once you get to the proper level and shell out ever-increasing piles of gold for learning the skill and buying the steed. There's also no technical problem with teleport-on-demand - mages get to do it eventually.
</p><p>
It's like starting out with a 100-lb pack on your back. When you finally get to take it off you feel light as a feather! It's a cheap way to feel like you are being rewarded, when really they are just taking off the burden they started you out with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WoW uses the simple ability to move fast as part of its reward system , and to add to time in-game , and to add to the grind for gold .
Who would have thought that a simple increase in movement speed would feel like such an accomplishment !
It 's obvious there is no technical problem with letting characters move faster - they get to eventually , once you get to the proper level and shell out ever-increasing piles of gold for learning the skill and buying the steed .
There 's also no technical problem with teleport-on-demand - mages get to do it eventually .
It 's like starting out with a 100-lb pack on your back .
When you finally get to take it off you feel light as a feather !
It 's a cheap way to feel like you are being rewarded , when really they are just taking off the burden they started you out with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WoW uses the simple ability to move fast as part of its reward system, and to add to time in-game, and to add to the grind for gold.
Who would have thought that a simple increase in movement speed would feel like such an accomplishment!
It's obvious there is no technical problem with letting characters move faster - they get to eventually, once you get to the proper level and shell out ever-increasing piles of gold for learning the skill and buying the steed.
There's also no technical problem with teleport-on-demand - mages get to do it eventually.
It's like starting out with a 100-lb pack on your back.
When you finally get to take it off you feel light as a feather!
It's a cheap way to feel like you are being rewarded, when really they are just taking off the burden they started you out with.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504249</id>
	<title>Vex Thal....NToV</title>
	<author>0xbeefcake</author>
	<datestamp>1246207800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ah, my Everquest memories of 'making the run' to ToV north and Vex Thal. Sure it was a pain in the ass, to me it only made victory sweeter - granted once you'd figured out how to pharm the good zones, it was never terribly difficult.  Trying to rez your way up to Air island 7...now that *was* a memory I'd rather forget<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah , my Everquest memories of 'making the run ' to ToV north and Vex Thal .
Sure it was a pain in the ass , to me it only made victory sweeter - granted once you 'd figured out how to pharm the good zones , it was never terribly difficult .
Trying to rez your way up to Air island 7...now that * was * a memory I 'd rather forget : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah, my Everquest memories of 'making the run' to ToV north and Vex Thal.
Sure it was a pain in the ass, to me it only made victory sweeter - granted once you'd figured out how to pharm the good zones, it was never terribly difficult.
Trying to rez your way up to Air island 7...now that *was* a memory I'd rather forget :P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28509167</id>
	<title>Re:Because of overcrowding</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246203960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know I've spent a lot of time fantasizing about teleportation, and I don't think what you say would be true. I think teleportation would just lower the cost of transportation to zero. California might get flooded in the first year of the advent of teleportation, but after everyone in the world experienced it it would become less popular. Also since you could just as easily travel to some esoteric place like for instance the Ottumwa, Iowa the "video game capital of the world" as Los Angeles there would no longer be any incentive to build night clubs near other night clubs. You could build your super cool place to hang out anywhere.</p><p>So with a transportation cost of zero, the network effect of real estate would disappear. Of course the huge difference would be a massive increase of wealth, followed immediately by massive redistribution of wealth. The physical distribution of nightclubs would be more even. The demand for nightclubs would essentially be dictated by reputation alone. Popularity of nightclubs would be extremely fickle, with probably many nightclubs experiencing their 15 minutes of fame. To the average person, globe trotting would lose much of it's appeal eventually, and they'd all settle for their "local" bar. Which could be anywhere in the world, but it would serve a very specialized niche, and have a mostly static clientele.</p><p>So... It'd be a lot like the internet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know I 've spent a lot of time fantasizing about teleportation , and I do n't think what you say would be true .
I think teleportation would just lower the cost of transportation to zero .
California might get flooded in the first year of the advent of teleportation , but after everyone in the world experienced it it would become less popular .
Also since you could just as easily travel to some esoteric place like for instance the Ottumwa , Iowa the " video game capital of the world " as Los Angeles there would no longer be any incentive to build night clubs near other night clubs .
You could build your super cool place to hang out anywhere.So with a transportation cost of zero , the network effect of real estate would disappear .
Of course the huge difference would be a massive increase of wealth , followed immediately by massive redistribution of wealth .
The physical distribution of nightclubs would be more even .
The demand for nightclubs would essentially be dictated by reputation alone .
Popularity of nightclubs would be extremely fickle , with probably many nightclubs experiencing their 15 minutes of fame .
To the average person , globe trotting would lose much of it 's appeal eventually , and they 'd all settle for their " local " bar .
Which could be anywhere in the world , but it would serve a very specialized niche , and have a mostly static clientele.So... It 'd be a lot like the internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know I've spent a lot of time fantasizing about teleportation, and I don't think what you say would be true.
I think teleportation would just lower the cost of transportation to zero.
California might get flooded in the first year of the advent of teleportation, but after everyone in the world experienced it it would become less popular.
Also since you could just as easily travel to some esoteric place like for instance the Ottumwa, Iowa the "video game capital of the world" as Los Angeles there would no longer be any incentive to build night clubs near other night clubs.
You could build your super cool place to hang out anywhere.So with a transportation cost of zero, the network effect of real estate would disappear.
Of course the huge difference would be a massive increase of wealth, followed immediately by massive redistribution of wealth.
The physical distribution of nightclubs would be more even.
The demand for nightclubs would essentially be dictated by reputation alone.
Popularity of nightclubs would be extremely fickle, with probably many nightclubs experiencing their 15 minutes of fame.
To the average person, globe trotting would lose much of it's appeal eventually, and they'd all settle for their "local" bar.
Which could be anywhere in the world, but it would serve a very specialized niche, and have a mostly static clientele.So... It'd be a lot like the internet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503117</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>fredklein</author>
	<datestamp>1246198500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>It is a big world</i></p><p>I've seen an analysis that shows they two main 'continents' of WOW are, in actuality, smaller than Manhattan.</p><p><a href="http://www.ytrilynth.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=282" title="ytrilynth.org">http://www.ytrilynth.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=282</a> [ytrilynth.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is a big worldI 've seen an analysis that shows they two main 'continents ' of WOW are , in actuality , smaller than Manhattan.http : //www.ytrilynth.org/board/viewtopic.php ? t = 282 [ ytrilynth.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is a big worldI've seen an analysis that shows they two main 'continents' of WOW are, in actuality, smaller than Manhattan.http://www.ytrilynth.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=282 [ytrilynth.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504235</id>
	<title>Re:Guilds Wars method</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246207800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Guild Wars doesn't have much in common with a traditional MMORPG anyway. Why would it use similar travel mechanics when the rest of the game has so little in common? At its heart, it is a scaled up Diablo clone, with instanced towns and waiting areas taking the place of battle.net chat channels.
<br> <br>
As it currently stands in WoW, you can get to the most remote places in the world in roughly 10 minutes from any point with a little planning, and you can spend most of that time AFK. You do need to stand up and pee once in a while, right? Trash mobs in the dungeons are a much bigger time sink than the travel, frankly.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Guild Wars does n't have much in common with a traditional MMORPG anyway .
Why would it use similar travel mechanics when the rest of the game has so little in common ?
At its heart , it is a scaled up Diablo clone , with instanced towns and waiting areas taking the place of battle.net chat channels .
As it currently stands in WoW , you can get to the most remote places in the world in roughly 10 minutes from any point with a little planning , and you can spend most of that time AFK .
You do need to stand up and pee once in a while , right ?
Trash mobs in the dungeons are a much bigger time sink than the travel , frankly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Guild Wars doesn't have much in common with a traditional MMORPG anyway.
Why would it use similar travel mechanics when the rest of the game has so little in common?
At its heart, it is a scaled up Diablo clone, with instanced towns and waiting areas taking the place of battle.net chat channels.
As it currently stands in WoW, you can get to the most remote places in the world in roughly 10 minutes from any point with a little planning, and you can spend most of that time AFK.
You do need to stand up and pee once in a while, right?
Trash mobs in the dungeons are a much bigger time sink than the travel, frankly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502603</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504157</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>UnknownSoldier</author>
	<datestamp>1246207020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, please. give  it up on Bartle already. Bartle thinks that for some "magically" reason you "need" 4 players types. Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds, Spades.  Ultima Online, showed that you don't need the Clubs (PvP) \_at all\_ when Trammel got introduced and the population in mass moved from Felucca. I lost many friends who quit UO for good because of some immature player griefing others.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , please .
give it up on Bartle already .
Bartle thinks that for some " magically " reason you " need " 4 players types .
Hearts , Clubs , Diamonds , Spades .
Ultima Online , showed that you do n't need the Clubs ( PvP ) \ _at all \ _ when Trammel got introduced and the population in mass moved from Felucca .
I lost many friends who quit UO for good because of some immature player griefing others .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, please.
give  it up on Bartle already.
Bartle thinks that for some "magically" reason you "need" 4 players types.
Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds, Spades.
Ultima Online, showed that you don't need the Clubs (PvP) \_at all\_ when Trammel got introduced and the population in mass moved from Felucca.
I lost many friends who quit UO for good because of some immature player griefing others.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507675</id>
	<title>Bigger scope needed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246189320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>You just need to have a game with a bigger scope....of course WoW is going to have screwed up travelling, its like, medieval or something. Unless you went with full magic and allowed player to warp anywhere at anytime, you are going to have limits.

In the SOE game Planetside, they have a wide scope - a slightly futuristic all-out war game with all kinds of infantry and vehicles. Because of the huge-ass worlds, people would tend to always purchase an aircraft cert, then fly that to the fights. After a while it became clear that aircraft were just the most superior vehicles because of this quality. Of course, some of the aircraft had immense firepower as well, which was arguably unbalanced; but the biggest aspect was fast travel. It was important because, you could get to fights faster, then, if you found out there was way too much shit to deal with at the fight, you could turn around and get the fuck out of Dodge way fucking fast.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You just need to have a game with a bigger scope....of course WoW is going to have screwed up travelling , its like , medieval or something .
Unless you went with full magic and allowed player to warp anywhere at anytime , you are going to have limits .
In the SOE game Planetside , they have a wide scope - a slightly futuristic all-out war game with all kinds of infantry and vehicles .
Because of the huge-ass worlds , people would tend to always purchase an aircraft cert , then fly that to the fights .
After a while it became clear that aircraft were just the most superior vehicles because of this quality .
Of course , some of the aircraft had immense firepower as well , which was arguably unbalanced ; but the biggest aspect was fast travel .
It was important because , you could get to fights faster , then , if you found out there was way too much shit to deal with at the fight , you could turn around and get the fuck out of Dodge way fucking fast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You just need to have a game with a bigger scope....of course WoW is going to have screwed up travelling, its like, medieval or something.
Unless you went with full magic and allowed player to warp anywhere at anytime, you are going to have limits.
In the SOE game Planetside, they have a wide scope - a slightly futuristic all-out war game with all kinds of infantry and vehicles.
Because of the huge-ass worlds, people would tend to always purchase an aircraft cert, then fly that to the fights.
After a while it became clear that aircraft were just the most superior vehicles because of this quality.
Of course, some of the aircraft had immense firepower as well, which was arguably unbalanced; but the biggest aspect was fast travel.
It was important because, you could get to fights faster, then, if you found out there was way too much shit to deal with at the fight, you could turn around and get the fuck out of Dodge way fucking fast.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503987</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Evro</author>
	<datestamp>1246205760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is likely a factor, but QuantumG is more correct.  EQ introduced "instant" transport, which was much less than instant due to the horrible load times, and it did indeed make the world feel smaller, and to a large degree ruined the game.  EQ insisted originally on just having you run everywhere, then later introduced horses, and then the PoK portals.  WoW's griffins were a great compromise in my opinion: they got rid of the tedium of manually having to navigate everywhere while maintaining the feel of a vast world.  If you have instant transport everywhere, why not have instakill for mobs too, I mean all that clicking is pretty obnoxious.</p><p>You also neglected to mention mage portals and summoning stones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is likely a factor , but QuantumG is more correct .
EQ introduced " instant " transport , which was much less than instant due to the horrible load times , and it did indeed make the world feel smaller , and to a large degree ruined the game .
EQ insisted originally on just having you run everywhere , then later introduced horses , and then the PoK portals .
WoW 's griffins were a great compromise in my opinion : they got rid of the tedium of manually having to navigate everywhere while maintaining the feel of a vast world .
If you have instant transport everywhere , why not have instakill for mobs too , I mean all that clicking is pretty obnoxious.You also neglected to mention mage portals and summoning stones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is likely a factor, but QuantumG is more correct.
EQ introduced "instant" transport, which was much less than instant due to the horrible load times, and it did indeed make the world feel smaller, and to a large degree ruined the game.
EQ insisted originally on just having you run everywhere, then later introduced horses, and then the PoK portals.
WoW's griffins were a great compromise in my opinion: they got rid of the tedium of manually having to navigate everywhere while maintaining the feel of a vast world.
If you have instant transport everywhere, why not have instakill for mobs too, I mean all that clicking is pretty obnoxious.You also neglected to mention mage portals and summoning stones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502891</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>damburger</author>
	<datestamp>1246195980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thankyou for stating what I was thinking. WoW is <i>not</i> an expensive past time. The amount of money I spend on my WoW subscription in one month, I can burn through in the pub in about 2 hours. Furthermore, it is unmetered, so Blizzard have no financial incentive to keep you traveling. It could be to reduce load on their servers I suppose, But I doubt it. When you fly you go through a number of areas in quick succession, rather than simply switching from one to another as you do using one of the various instant teleportation methods.</p><p>I have never been as pissed off with WoW travel as other people seem to be. Maybe its because I am older than a lot of players, but it seems to me that it helps pace the game properly. It is a big world, and flight paths help maintain that impression.</p><p>Oh, and it also gives me a chance to get myself a cup of coffee and go to the toilet<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thankyou for stating what I was thinking .
WoW is not an expensive past time .
The amount of money I spend on my WoW subscription in one month , I can burn through in the pub in about 2 hours .
Furthermore , it is unmetered , so Blizzard have no financial incentive to keep you traveling .
It could be to reduce load on their servers I suppose , But I doubt it .
When you fly you go through a number of areas in quick succession , rather than simply switching from one to another as you do using one of the various instant teleportation methods.I have never been as pissed off with WoW travel as other people seem to be .
Maybe its because I am older than a lot of players , but it seems to me that it helps pace the game properly .
It is a big world , and flight paths help maintain that impression.Oh , and it also gives me a chance to get myself a cup of coffee and go to the toilet : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thankyou for stating what I was thinking.
WoW is not an expensive past time.
The amount of money I spend on my WoW subscription in one month, I can burn through in the pub in about 2 hours.
Furthermore, it is unmetered, so Blizzard have no financial incentive to keep you traveling.
It could be to reduce load on their servers I suppose, But I doubt it.
When you fly you go through a number of areas in quick succession, rather than simply switching from one to another as you do using one of the various instant teleportation methods.I have never been as pissed off with WoW travel as other people seem to be.
Maybe its because I am older than a lot of players, but it seems to me that it helps pace the game properly.
It is a big world, and flight paths help maintain that impression.Oh, and it also gives me a chance to get myself a cup of coffee and go to the toilet :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28510511</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>Mascot</author>
	<datestamp>1246216560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The amount of money I spend on my WoW subscription in one month, I can burn through in the pub in about 2 hours.</p></div><p>I want to live where you live. A month worth of WoW buys me 1 drink or a maximum of 2 beer (more like 1.5). That's half an hour in the pub as opposed to two hours.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The amount of money I spend on my WoW subscription in one month , I can burn through in the pub in about 2 hours.I want to live where you live .
A month worth of WoW buys me 1 drink or a maximum of 2 beer ( more like 1.5 ) .
That 's half an hour in the pub as opposed to two hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The amount of money I spend on my WoW subscription in one month, I can burn through in the pub in about 2 hours.I want to live where you live.
A month worth of WoW buys me 1 drink or a maximum of 2 beer (more like 1.5).
That's half an hour in the pub as opposed to two hours.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502433</id>
	<title>It is better to travel hopefully</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246190160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>..than to arrive.

The game is a simulation of "real" life, and in real life much of your time is spent stuck on the highway. I wonder why MMOs don't have traffic jams and why WoW doesn't have a shortage of rental animals for transporation, just like the real world</htmltext>
<tokenext>..than to arrive .
The game is a simulation of " real " life , and in real life much of your time is spent stuck on the highway .
I wonder why MMOs do n't have traffic jams and why WoW does n't have a shortage of rental animals for transporation , just like the real world</tokentext>
<sentencetext>..than to arrive.
The game is a simulation of "real" life, and in real life much of your time is spent stuck on the highway.
I wonder why MMOs don't have traffic jams and why WoW doesn't have a shortage of rental animals for transporation, just like the real world</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502603</id>
	<title>Guilds Wars method</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246192380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think Guild Wars method was one the best method. Once you discovered a given post (Like "towns", "villages",<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...), you could just open the map, click on the post and warp to it instantly. You still had some walking to do if you wanted to go to some dangerous place far away, but this was a good idea, IMHO. Death penalty was high enough to make traveling to those dangerous places a real adventure, even with simple bots with you.</p><p>I quite frankly hated the transportation method of World of Warcraft. Unless you were a Mage, traveling was so boring, time-consuming and awful that the "business strategy" behind those limitations was crystal clar.</p><p>I never found a clever transporation as Guild Wars did it. This game had also an automatic path finder if you were on a field and you clicked on some reachable place, that worked more or less. Sometimes you'll be just stuck on a wall but, generally, the AI would find the path alone very easily, even if the path were quite long.<br>I rarely found so clever transporation methods, even in Free MMORPG. I know, Free MMORPG aren't free. They place transportation limitations so you would give them money to get past those limitations.<br>But, quite frankly, I don't see that as a clever business method. If you piss the player too much, he will just get away. Blizzard thought about this in giving mount access to level 30 (level 20 in future, I heard) but that wasn't good enough. Gryphon transportation is totally retarded (Let's just make the path 3 times longer that it needs to be !) and flying mounts needs to be controlled, as there are no automatic path finder for human players IIRC, so that's also boring and time-consuming.</p><p>I find this very stupid that in a lot of games, mages aren't able to use transportation magic at a high level to teleport at any location.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think Guild Wars method was one the best method .
Once you discovered a given post ( Like " towns " , " villages " , ... ) , you could just open the map , click on the post and warp to it instantly .
You still had some walking to do if you wanted to go to some dangerous place far away , but this was a good idea , IMHO .
Death penalty was high enough to make traveling to those dangerous places a real adventure , even with simple bots with you.I quite frankly hated the transportation method of World of Warcraft .
Unless you were a Mage , traveling was so boring , time-consuming and awful that the " business strategy " behind those limitations was crystal clar.I never found a clever transporation as Guild Wars did it .
This game had also an automatic path finder if you were on a field and you clicked on some reachable place , that worked more or less .
Sometimes you 'll be just stuck on a wall but , generally , the AI would find the path alone very easily , even if the path were quite long.I rarely found so clever transporation methods , even in Free MMORPG .
I know , Free MMORPG are n't free .
They place transportation limitations so you would give them money to get past those limitations.But , quite frankly , I do n't see that as a clever business method .
If you piss the player too much , he will just get away .
Blizzard thought about this in giving mount access to level 30 ( level 20 in future , I heard ) but that was n't good enough .
Gryphon transportation is totally retarded ( Let 's just make the path 3 times longer that it needs to be !
) and flying mounts needs to be controlled , as there are no automatic path finder for human players IIRC , so that 's also boring and time-consuming.I find this very stupid that in a lot of games , mages are n't able to use transportation magic at a high level to teleport at any location .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think Guild Wars method was one the best method.
Once you discovered a given post (Like "towns", "villages", ...), you could just open the map, click on the post and warp to it instantly.
You still had some walking to do if you wanted to go to some dangerous place far away, but this was a good idea, IMHO.
Death penalty was high enough to make traveling to those dangerous places a real adventure, even with simple bots with you.I quite frankly hated the transportation method of World of Warcraft.
Unless you were a Mage, traveling was so boring, time-consuming and awful that the "business strategy" behind those limitations was crystal clar.I never found a clever transporation as Guild Wars did it.
This game had also an automatic path finder if you were on a field and you clicked on some reachable place, that worked more or less.
Sometimes you'll be just stuck on a wall but, generally, the AI would find the path alone very easily, even if the path were quite long.I rarely found so clever transporation methods, even in Free MMORPG.
I know, Free MMORPG aren't free.
They place transportation limitations so you would give them money to get past those limitations.But, quite frankly, I don't see that as a clever business method.
If you piss the player too much, he will just get away.
Blizzard thought about this in giving mount access to level 30 (level 20 in future, I heard) but that wasn't good enough.
Gryphon transportation is totally retarded (Let's just make the path 3 times longer that it needs to be !
) and flying mounts needs to be controlled, as there are no automatic path finder for human players IIRC, so that's also boring and time-consuming.I find this very stupid that in a lot of games, mages aren't able to use transportation magic at a high level to teleport at any location.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507107</id>
	<title>Re:Or, the alternative...</title>
	<author>darpo</author>
	<datestamp>1246184880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I bought Fallout 3 a couple weeks ago and can't agree more. And the fast travel won't let you do it while there are enemies around either, so it's not too easy on the gamer. Absolute perfect blend of on foot travel and insta-travel. Good job, Fallout 3 devs.

(Not to say I don't have other problems with the GUI in Fallout 3. I can't hit Esc to quickly exit a conversation. I hate tabbing between Items/Data/whatever. Basically not enough keyboard shortcuts. I hate games that force you to use the mouse so much.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I bought Fallout 3 a couple weeks ago and ca n't agree more .
And the fast travel wo n't let you do it while there are enemies around either , so it 's not too easy on the gamer .
Absolute perfect blend of on foot travel and insta-travel .
Good job , Fallout 3 devs .
( Not to say I do n't have other problems with the GUI in Fallout 3 .
I ca n't hit Esc to quickly exit a conversation .
I hate tabbing between Items/Data/whatever .
Basically not enough keyboard shortcuts .
I hate games that force you to use the mouse so much .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bought Fallout 3 a couple weeks ago and can't agree more.
And the fast travel won't let you do it while there are enemies around either, so it's not too easy on the gamer.
Absolute perfect blend of on foot travel and insta-travel.
Good job, Fallout 3 devs.
(Not to say I don't have other problems with the GUI in Fallout 3.
I can't hit Esc to quickly exit a conversation.
I hate tabbing between Items/Data/whatever.
Basically not enough keyboard shortcuts.
I hate games that force you to use the mouse so much.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505257</id>
	<title>Maybe if they...</title>
	<author>pinkj</author>
	<datestamp>1246214100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>put a handheld game for your character to play (which you play) while walking, running, flying, etc.  i think playing some chess while traveling would be pretty nice at times.</htmltext>
<tokenext>put a handheld game for your character to play ( which you play ) while walking , running , flying , etc .
i think playing some chess while traveling would be pretty nice at times .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>put a handheld game for your character to play (which you play) while walking, running, flying, etc.
i think playing some chess while traveling would be pretty nice at times.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28518957</id>
	<title>Re:Guilds Wars method</title>
	<author>WuphonsReach</author>
	<datestamp>1246267080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>But who's gonna spend from 30 mins to an hour in WoW going to a lowbie area and back just to help somebody else? let alone sell or give out stuff to random newbies. From what I've heard playing the lv1-60 content in WoW these days is pretty much like playing a single-player RPG, except with a monthly fee, and that's very much a result of long travel times, IMHO.</i> <br>
<br>
There are still people who do that.  Others put their wares up on the Auction House for cheap.  Or keep their generosity within the guild or alliance.  And players outlevel gear so fast now.<br>
<br>
Travel times have very little to do with any of that.  The problem is more (as to why lower level zones feel empty) is that you level so fast (maybe 2-3 hours per level in the 20s and 30s) that you quickly move from zone to zone and then leave for Outland at 58.  (Blizzard keeps increasing the rate of XP gain for lower levels).<br>
<br>
So at the most, you're spending only 10-20 hours in a single zone before moving on.  And that's if the quest chains that you're following don't send you elsewhere before then.<br>
<br>
Quests are probably the 2nd major reason why you rarely find people on the same page.  Quest XP will double or triple the rate of XP gain compared to just sitting somewhere and killing mobs ala EQ grind camp style.  That means there's a huge incentive for completing your quests.  If you happen to have a leveling companion who is also on the same quests, great.  Otherwise you'll find that it's like trying to synchronize two very different schedules.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But who 's gon na spend from 30 mins to an hour in WoW going to a lowbie area and back just to help somebody else ?
let alone sell or give out stuff to random newbies .
From what I 've heard playing the lv1-60 content in WoW these days is pretty much like playing a single-player RPG , except with a monthly fee , and that 's very much a result of long travel times , IMHO .
There are still people who do that .
Others put their wares up on the Auction House for cheap .
Or keep their generosity within the guild or alliance .
And players outlevel gear so fast now .
Travel times have very little to do with any of that .
The problem is more ( as to why lower level zones feel empty ) is that you level so fast ( maybe 2-3 hours per level in the 20s and 30s ) that you quickly move from zone to zone and then leave for Outland at 58 .
( Blizzard keeps increasing the rate of XP gain for lower levels ) .
So at the most , you 're spending only 10-20 hours in a single zone before moving on .
And that 's if the quest chains that you 're following do n't send you elsewhere before then .
Quests are probably the 2nd major reason why you rarely find people on the same page .
Quest XP will double or triple the rate of XP gain compared to just sitting somewhere and killing mobs ala EQ grind camp style .
That means there 's a huge incentive for completing your quests .
If you happen to have a leveling companion who is also on the same quests , great .
Otherwise you 'll find that it 's like trying to synchronize two very different schedules .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But who's gonna spend from 30 mins to an hour in WoW going to a lowbie area and back just to help somebody else?
let alone sell or give out stuff to random newbies.
From what I've heard playing the lv1-60 content in WoW these days is pretty much like playing a single-player RPG, except with a monthly fee, and that's very much a result of long travel times, IMHO.
There are still people who do that.
Others put their wares up on the Auction House for cheap.
Or keep their generosity within the guild or alliance.
And players outlevel gear so fast now.
Travel times have very little to do with any of that.
The problem is more (as to why lower level zones feel empty) is that you level so fast (maybe 2-3 hours per level in the 20s and 30s) that you quickly move from zone to zone and then leave for Outland at 58.
(Blizzard keeps increasing the rate of XP gain for lower levels).
So at the most, you're spending only 10-20 hours in a single zone before moving on.
And that's if the quest chains that you're following don't send you elsewhere before then.
Quests are probably the 2nd major reason why you rarely find people on the same page.
Quest XP will double or triple the rate of XP gain compared to just sitting somewhere and killing mobs ala EQ grind camp style.
That means there's a huge incentive for completing your quests.
If you happen to have a leveling companion who is also on the same quests, great.
Otherwise you'll find that it's like trying to synchronize two very different schedules.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504487</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505589</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246216080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree.  EverQuest prior to all the insta-click books and stuff felt like an enormous world which a player could never fully explore, fraught with hidden dangers.  Quick travel made it possible to circumvent anything interesting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
EverQuest prior to all the insta-click books and stuff felt like an enormous world which a player could never fully explore , fraught with hidden dangers .
Quick travel made it possible to circumvent anything interesting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
EverQuest prior to all the insta-click books and stuff felt like an enormous world which a player could never fully explore, fraught with hidden dangers.
Quick travel made it possible to circumvent anything interesting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28523409</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246288860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In City of Heroes/Villains and the upcoming Champions Online, you get movement powers very early that whip you around the world pretty quickly, unlike WoW.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In City of Heroes/Villains and the upcoming Champions Online , you get movement powers very early that whip you around the world pretty quickly , unlike WoW .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In City of Heroes/Villains and the upcoming Champions Online, you get movement powers very early that whip you around the world pretty quickly, unlike WoW.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28513867</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246289640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"if you're on a low pop server, wait forever"</p><p>Don't play on low pop then. I was always amazed when people complained about queues on high pop servers and moved to low pop, and then complained that the market sucked and there was no one to run with and their servers pvp teams always lost and no one was progressing and hurf blurf hurf blurf.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" if you 're on a low pop server , wait forever " Do n't play on low pop then .
I was always amazed when people complained about queues on high pop servers and moved to low pop , and then complained that the market sucked and there was no one to run with and their servers pvp teams always lost and no one was progressing and hurf blurf hurf blurf .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"if you're on a low pop server, wait forever"Don't play on low pop then.
I was always amazed when people complained about queues on high pop servers and moved to low pop, and then complained that the market sucked and there was no one to run with and their servers pvp teams always lost and no one was progressing and hurf blurf hurf blurf.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503231</id>
	<title>Re:Codswallop</title>
	<author>thesandtiger</author>
	<datestamp>1246199580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think "most" of WoW's charm was due to mounts, but if you feel "most" of the charm comes from touring around the world, I guess that's your right<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>And there is some danger - if you're not careful you can get assaulted by various large flying things in many areas, and they'll either dismount you (dropping you to your death unless you're a mage or priest or paladin) or beat you to death since they're rather powerful.</p><p>Fortunately, you have to wait to at least level 78 when you're in Northrend to get flying out there, and you should by then already have entered most of the zones on a land mount and explored a bit. The last 2 levels are designed around you being able to fly, and there's PLENTY of epic stuff (the giant helicarrier and the cities up in the mountains did it for me).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think " most " of WoW 's charm was due to mounts , but if you feel " most " of the charm comes from touring around the world , I guess that 's your right : ) And there is some danger - if you 're not careful you can get assaulted by various large flying things in many areas , and they 'll either dismount you ( dropping you to your death unless you 're a mage or priest or paladin ) or beat you to death since they 're rather powerful.Fortunately , you have to wait to at least level 78 when you 're in Northrend to get flying out there , and you should by then already have entered most of the zones on a land mount and explored a bit .
The last 2 levels are designed around you being able to fly , and there 's PLENTY of epic stuff ( the giant helicarrier and the cities up in the mountains did it for me ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think "most" of WoW's charm was due to mounts, but if you feel "most" of the charm comes from touring around the world, I guess that's your right :)And there is some danger - if you're not careful you can get assaulted by various large flying things in many areas, and they'll either dismount you (dropping you to your death unless you're a mage or priest or paladin) or beat you to death since they're rather powerful.Fortunately, you have to wait to at least level 78 when you're in Northrend to get flying out there, and you should by then already have entered most of the zones on a land mount and explored a bit.
The last 2 levels are designed around you being able to fly, and there's PLENTY of epic stuff (the giant helicarrier and the cities up in the mountains did it for me).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502435</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505709</id>
	<title>I'm a little annoyed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246216860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I personally love the travel methods of A Tale in the Desert (you walk everywhere, but you can spend offline/rest time to teleport whereever you want) and Ultima Online (where players could make runestones denoting a location and then could teleport to that location assuming you kept up with the stone).</p><p>These methods were glazed over.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I personally love the travel methods of A Tale in the Desert ( you walk everywhere , but you can spend offline/rest time to teleport whereever you want ) and Ultima Online ( where players could make runestones denoting a location and then could teleport to that location assuming you kept up with the stone ) .These methods were glazed over .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I personally love the travel methods of A Tale in the Desert (you walk everywhere, but you can spend offline/rest time to teleport whereever you want) and Ultima Online (where players could make runestones denoting a location and then could teleport to that location assuming you kept up with the stone).These methods were glazed over.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28509159</id>
	<title>Re:Because of overcrowding</title>
	<author>Snufu</author>
	<datestamp>1246203900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Queue. "Area full? I'll wait over here doing this other thing. When a space becomes available, transport me instantly to the action."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Queue .
" Area full ?
I 'll wait over here doing this other thing .
When a space becomes available , transport me instantly to the action .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Queue.
"Area full?
I'll wait over here doing this other thing.
When a space becomes available, transport me instantly to the action.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28509067</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>adavies42</author>
	<datestamp>1246202700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>have you done the midsummer achievements yet (or the lunar festival ones back in february)? there's nothing like a grand tour of all four continents to remind you how big the World really is.</htmltext>
<tokenext>have you done the midsummer achievements yet ( or the lunar festival ones back in february ) ?
there 's nothing like a grand tour of all four continents to remind you how big the World really is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>have you done the midsummer achievements yet (or the lunar festival ones back in february)?
there's nothing like a grand tour of all four continents to remind you how big the World really is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28511957</id>
	<title>Re:Bio breaks</title>
	<author>tiggertaebo</author>
	<datestamp>1246275420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've got to agree with this - the time spent in-flight gives me an ideal opportunity to have a quick breather. Something that is essential in a time-intensive game that doesn't pause.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've got to agree with this - the time spent in-flight gives me an ideal opportunity to have a quick breather .
Something that is essential in a time-intensive game that does n't pause .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've got to agree with this - the time spent in-flight gives me an ideal opportunity to have a quick breather.
Something that is essential in a time-intensive game that doesn't pause.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506073</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507045</id>
	<title>Zip Mode</title>
	<author>Nom du Keyboard</author>
	<datestamp>1246184100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the Myst games, once you'd traveled to an important destination the slow way, you could use Zip Mode to teleport there again easily. You never had to, but you always could. That's the solution I'd like best.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the Myst games , once you 'd traveled to an important destination the slow way , you could use Zip Mode to teleport there again easily .
You never had to , but you always could .
That 's the solution I 'd like best .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the Myst games, once you'd traveled to an important destination the slow way, you could use Zip Mode to teleport there again easily.
You never had to, but you always could.
That's the solution I'd like best.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507343</id>
	<title>Re:No, the technical term is "Dead Time"</title>
	<author>nschubach</author>
	<datestamp>1246186800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If the player is \_bored\_, you hav \_failed\_ as a game designer.</p></div><p>There's a difference between a world that you can explore and a game of checkers.  Chess is not funner because you can teleport your piece all over the map and make any one of your pieces attack another.  (Although, someone with ADD might think so... they can be off to the next game in 5 minutes.)  Part of the strategy is getting your pieces to the destination by following the rules of the game and not letting them die along the way.</p><p>If you let people teleport at will, you may as well just put them in a single room with a monster spawning door.  There's no sense in making a huge world with diverse regions and items, then giving the player the ability to hit any one of them at a whim.</p><p>Time to travel give sense of accomplishment just as levels do in Super Mario World.  If a player could have started off in a room with a portal to any level in SMB, you're damn right people will complain that the game is too easy and it's too small.  They will port right to the last level and kill King Koopa and save the princess.  You take away those portals and now people are thrilled by the fact that they made it to the boss level.</p><p>Sadly, there are game designers like you that think ADD game players should be catered to.  You should let them warp to the last level as fast as they can and keep coming back to you for more content.  You should have just gave all your players the ability to warp all their units to the enemy base so they aren't so bored with building up an army.</p><p>Players have to be bored to enjoy the game.  You cannot feed a drug addict 100\% crack 24/7 and expect them to be happy with it.  If you populate your game with nothing but fun, it soon becomes less fun and they look for more.</p><p>Besides, there's a tremendous difference between a strategy/simulation game like Majesty and an MMO World.  In an MMO you have your character for YEARS at times.  In a game like Majesty, what's the average length of a game?  1-2 hours?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the player is \ _bored \ _ , you hav \ _failed \ _ as a game designer.There 's a difference between a world that you can explore and a game of checkers .
Chess is not funner because you can teleport your piece all over the map and make any one of your pieces attack another .
( Although , someone with ADD might think so... they can be off to the next game in 5 minutes .
) Part of the strategy is getting your pieces to the destination by following the rules of the game and not letting them die along the way.If you let people teleport at will , you may as well just put them in a single room with a monster spawning door .
There 's no sense in making a huge world with diverse regions and items , then giving the player the ability to hit any one of them at a whim.Time to travel give sense of accomplishment just as levels do in Super Mario World .
If a player could have started off in a room with a portal to any level in SMB , you 're damn right people will complain that the game is too easy and it 's too small .
They will port right to the last level and kill King Koopa and save the princess .
You take away those portals and now people are thrilled by the fact that they made it to the boss level.Sadly , there are game designers like you that think ADD game players should be catered to .
You should let them warp to the last level as fast as they can and keep coming back to you for more content .
You should have just gave all your players the ability to warp all their units to the enemy base so they are n't so bored with building up an army.Players have to be bored to enjoy the game .
You can not feed a drug addict 100 \ % crack 24/7 and expect them to be happy with it .
If you populate your game with nothing but fun , it soon becomes less fun and they look for more.Besides , there 's a tremendous difference between a strategy/simulation game like Majesty and an MMO World .
In an MMO you have your character for YEARS at times .
In a game like Majesty , what 's the average length of a game ?
1-2 hours ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the player is \_bored\_, you hav \_failed\_ as a game designer.There's a difference between a world that you can explore and a game of checkers.
Chess is not funner because you can teleport your piece all over the map and make any one of your pieces attack another.
(Although, someone with ADD might think so... they can be off to the next game in 5 minutes.
)  Part of the strategy is getting your pieces to the destination by following the rules of the game and not letting them die along the way.If you let people teleport at will, you may as well just put them in a single room with a monster spawning door.
There's no sense in making a huge world with diverse regions and items, then giving the player the ability to hit any one of them at a whim.Time to travel give sense of accomplishment just as levels do in Super Mario World.
If a player could have started off in a room with a portal to any level in SMB, you're damn right people will complain that the game is too easy and it's too small.
They will port right to the last level and kill King Koopa and save the princess.
You take away those portals and now people are thrilled by the fact that they made it to the boss level.Sadly, there are game designers like you that think ADD game players should be catered to.
You should let them warp to the last level as fast as they can and keep coming back to you for more content.
You should have just gave all your players the ability to warp all their units to the enemy base so they aren't so bored with building up an army.Players have to be bored to enjoy the game.
You cannot feed a drug addict 100\% crack 24/7 and expect them to be happy with it.
If you populate your game with nothing but fun, it soon becomes less fun and they look for more.Besides, there's a tremendous difference between a strategy/simulation game like Majesty and an MMO World.
In an MMO you have your character for YEARS at times.
In a game like Majesty, what's the average length of a game?
1-2 hours?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503179</id>
	<title>Asheron's Call allowed very good movement</title>
	<author>Shivetya</author>
	<datestamp>1246199100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you could train your run skill up to silly numbers and just fly across its landscape.  Throw in a dearth of portals from location to location and you could get anywhere you needed.  When one aspect of unattended play shone in a game, AC had player run portal bots.  With the ability of a character with the right skills to link and open to two portals it made for even better fun.  Best yet, most portal bots operated as buff bots and would fully load your player with an hour or more of incredible (okay - near game breaking for lower level) abilities.</p><p>Throw in the fact it was the first really zone less game and it make running around AC fun.</p><p>Still, why not do it?  For the simple reason, increasing play time and subscription time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you could train your run skill up to silly numbers and just fly across its landscape .
Throw in a dearth of portals from location to location and you could get anywhere you needed .
When one aspect of unattended play shone in a game , AC had player run portal bots .
With the ability of a character with the right skills to link and open to two portals it made for even better fun .
Best yet , most portal bots operated as buff bots and would fully load your player with an hour or more of incredible ( okay - near game breaking for lower level ) abilities.Throw in the fact it was the first really zone less game and it make running around AC fun.Still , why not do it ?
For the simple reason , increasing play time and subscription time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you could train your run skill up to silly numbers and just fly across its landscape.
Throw in a dearth of portals from location to location and you could get anywhere you needed.
When one aspect of unattended play shone in a game, AC had player run portal bots.
With the ability of a character with the right skills to link and open to two portals it made for even better fun.
Best yet, most portal bots operated as buff bots and would fully load your player with an hour or more of incredible (okay - near game breaking for lower level) abilities.Throw in the fact it was the first really zone less game and it make running around AC fun.Still, why not do it?
For the simple reason, increasing play time and subscription time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28512329</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>mcvos</author>
	<datestamp>1246279260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Timesinks are stupid. Period. I don't play a game for awfully boring timesinks.</p></div><p>Then WoW is clearly not for you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Timesinks are stupid .
Period. I do n't play a game for awfully boring timesinks.Then WoW is clearly not for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Timesinks are stupid.
Period. I don't play a game for awfully boring timesinks.Then WoW is clearly not for you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28510239</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246214040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Folks, you don't get this. Part of what Blizzard is selling is you. While you're flapping from Moonglade to Thunder Bluff because your hearth to Dalaran still has a lot of time on cooldown and you're ready to be just about anywhere else than where you are, you're not just mindlessly watching the scenery unfold beneath you.</p><p>You're chatting with your guild, figuring out how to get the next level of jewelcrafting, or wondering why Night Elves are always so much prettier than your scraggly Tauren rear end.</p><p>The more time Blizzard keeps you in game, the more you're contributing to it. That's what this comes down to, that and keeping mages in gold by selling portals to the impatient.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Folks , you do n't get this .
Part of what Blizzard is selling is you .
While you 're flapping from Moonglade to Thunder Bluff because your hearth to Dalaran still has a lot of time on cooldown and you 're ready to be just about anywhere else than where you are , you 're not just mindlessly watching the scenery unfold beneath you.You 're chatting with your guild , figuring out how to get the next level of jewelcrafting , or wondering why Night Elves are always so much prettier than your scraggly Tauren rear end.The more time Blizzard keeps you in game , the more you 're contributing to it .
That 's what this comes down to , that and keeping mages in gold by selling portals to the impatient .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Folks, you don't get this.
Part of what Blizzard is selling is you.
While you're flapping from Moonglade to Thunder Bluff because your hearth to Dalaran still has a lot of time on cooldown and you're ready to be just about anywhere else than where you are, you're not just mindlessly watching the scenery unfold beneath you.You're chatting with your guild, figuring out how to get the next level of jewelcrafting, or wondering why Night Elves are always so much prettier than your scraggly Tauren rear end.The more time Blizzard keeps you in game, the more you're contributing to it.
That's what this comes down to, that and keeping mages in gold by selling portals to the impatient.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28540259</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246448100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>(reloading time 1 hour, so greaaat...)</p></div></blockquote><p>It's been 30 minutes for a while now.<br>
&nbsp; </p><blockquote><div><p>Timesinks are stupid. Period. I don't play a game for awfully boring timesinks.</p></div></blockquote><p>The whole point of games and entertainment in general is to be a timesink.<br>
&nbsp; </p><blockquote><div><p>Flying mounts are slow, unless you want to farm as hell to get a "faster" transportation method, which you'll be unable to use if you're on Azeroth anyway, so it doesn't solve the problem indicated above.</p></div></blockquote><p>The next patch will lower the prices on all mounts, which is nice. But I agree, traveling in classic WoW is slow and painful. Good thing I don't need to go there for anything besides the AH.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( reloading time 1 hour , so greaaat... ) It 's been 30 minutes for a while now .
  Timesinks are stupid .
Period. I do n't play a game for awfully boring timesinks.The whole point of games and entertainment in general is to be a timesink .
  Flying mounts are slow , unless you want to farm as hell to get a " faster " transportation method , which you 'll be unable to use if you 're on Azeroth anyway , so it does n't solve the problem indicated above.The next patch will lower the prices on all mounts , which is nice .
But I agree , traveling in classic WoW is slow and painful .
Good thing I do n't need to go there for anything besides the AH .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(reloading time 1 hour, so greaaat...)It's been 30 minutes for a while now.
  Timesinks are stupid.
Period. I don't play a game for awfully boring timesinks.The whole point of games and entertainment in general is to be a timesink.
  Flying mounts are slow, unless you want to farm as hell to get a "faster" transportation method, which you'll be unable to use if you're on Azeroth anyway, so it doesn't solve the problem indicated above.The next patch will lower the prices on all mounts, which is nice.
But I agree, traveling in classic WoW is slow and painful.
Good thing I don't need to go there for anything besides the AH.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505345</id>
	<title>Town portals were awesome</title>
	<author>Sabalon</author>
	<datestamp>1246214640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think the one thing I really missed in WoW was the Town Portal from Diablo.   I understand having to explore to learn new paths (*) however, when you're out in the middle of nowhere (or a dungeon) it would be nice to be able to jump back to town for repairs/selling - which you can do with the Hearthstone - and then be able to go right back to where you were, the lacking feature.</p><p>(*) IIRC, when you get to Sentinal Hill in Westfall and are sent back to Stormwind, they Gryphon Master says he has plenty of Gryphons trained to fly that route.  So if they Gryphons know how to get to the destination, why do I have to go there first to gain the flightpath?  It's all based on where the Gryphons KNOW, not me.  And they know destinations, not starting points.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the one thing I really missed in WoW was the Town Portal from Diablo .
I understand having to explore to learn new paths ( * ) however , when you 're out in the middle of nowhere ( or a dungeon ) it would be nice to be able to jump back to town for repairs/selling - which you can do with the Hearthstone - and then be able to go right back to where you were , the lacking feature .
( * ) IIRC , when you get to Sentinal Hill in Westfall and are sent back to Stormwind , they Gryphon Master says he has plenty of Gryphons trained to fly that route .
So if they Gryphons know how to get to the destination , why do I have to go there first to gain the flightpath ?
It 's all based on where the Gryphons KNOW , not me .
And they know destinations , not starting points .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the one thing I really missed in WoW was the Town Portal from Diablo.
I understand having to explore to learn new paths (*) however, when you're out in the middle of nowhere (or a dungeon) it would be nice to be able to jump back to town for repairs/selling - which you can do with the Hearthstone - and then be able to go right back to where you were, the lacking feature.
(*) IIRC, when you get to Sentinal Hill in Westfall and are sent back to Stormwind, they Gryphon Master says he has plenty of Gryphons trained to fly that route.
So if they Gryphons know how to get to the destination, why do I have to go there first to gain the flightpath?
It's all based on where the Gryphons KNOW, not me.
And they know destinations, not starting points.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28513289</id>
	<title>PvP</title>
	<author>blangblang</author>
	<datestamp>1246286400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The obvious reason for slow travel in WoW is PvP. What fun would it be to raid an enemy city if the entire enemy faction could teleport to the defense the moment they received word of an attack?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The obvious reason for slow travel in WoW is PvP .
What fun would it be to raid an enemy city if the entire enemy faction could teleport to the defense the moment they received word of an attack ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The obvious reason for slow travel in WoW is PvP.
What fun would it be to raid an enemy city if the entire enemy faction could teleport to the defense the moment they received word of an attack?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504111</id>
	<title>Anarchy Online</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246206660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AO has the grid/woompas/fixergrid/gridwarping/warp time and space/beacon warping/yalms but dosen't 100\% rely on it so you'll end up walking some time or other.</p><p>It may be an 8 year old game but it doesn't suffer from the silly issue of endless grind-like travel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AO has the grid/woompas/fixergrid/gridwarping/warp time and space/beacon warping/yalms but dose n't 100 \ % rely on it so you 'll end up walking some time or other.It may be an 8 year old game but it does n't suffer from the silly issue of endless grind-like travel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AO has the grid/woompas/fixergrid/gridwarping/warp time and space/beacon warping/yalms but dosen't 100\% rely on it so you'll end up walking some time or other.It may be an 8 year old game but it doesn't suffer from the silly issue of endless grind-like travel.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504327</id>
	<title>Re:Or, the alternative...</title>
	<author>SilverJets</author>
	<datestamp>1246208220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Good god, about 50\% of Eve's tedium is travelling.</i></p><p>And the other 50\% is mining asteroids.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good god , about 50 \ % of Eve 's tedium is travelling.And the other 50 \ % is mining asteroids .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good god, about 50\% of Eve's tedium is travelling.And the other 50\% is mining asteroids.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506663</id>
	<title>Simple</title>
	<author>Pedrito</author>
	<datestamp>1246180740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually the reason is quite simple: If it takes time to travel, then it takes time to explore everything and thus, the world can be significantly smaller. If you could instantly jump from place to place, then the time to explore the world would be greatly decreased and, to maintain your interest, a great deal more content would be required. Was this really worthy of Slashdot story?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually the reason is quite simple : If it takes time to travel , then it takes time to explore everything and thus , the world can be significantly smaller .
If you could instantly jump from place to place , then the time to explore the world would be greatly decreased and , to maintain your interest , a great deal more content would be required .
Was this really worthy of Slashdot story ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually the reason is quite simple: If it takes time to travel, then it takes time to explore everything and thus, the world can be significantly smaller.
If you could instantly jump from place to place, then the time to explore the world would be greatly decreased and, to maintain your interest, a great deal more content would be required.
Was this really worthy of Slashdot story?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507747</id>
	<title>Instant travel promotes the Zerg rush</title>
	<author>Archfeld</author>
	<datestamp>1246189980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>in PVP. If you can die and be back in combat instantly, where is the penalty for dying ? Where is the advantage to the side doing the killing ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>in PVP .
If you can die and be back in combat instantly , where is the penalty for dying ?
Where is the advantage to the side doing the killing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>in PVP.
If you can die and be back in combat instantly, where is the penalty for dying ?
Where is the advantage to the side doing the killing ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505729</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>machinelou</author>
	<datestamp>1246217040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lots of research with animals and humans analyzing choice has found that changing from one option to another (e.g., the decision to move from one game zone to another) is controlled by the relative rate of reinforcement for those choices AND the effort required to change from one choice to the other. For example, studies have manipulated the physical distance between two keys in an operant chamber and found that as the distance increases, animals tend to respond more exclusively on the key with the higher-rate of reinforcement. As the cost or effort to change decreases, choice becomes less sensitive to differences in the rate of reinforcement among the alternatives. Instead of manipulating physical distance, experimenters have also required subjects to respond on a change-over key. Increases in the response-requirement on the change-over key produce effects similar to increasing physical distance.

So, increasing the effort to move from one zone to another likely produces real changes in how players distribute their time in those zones. Good game designers probably distribute the best in-game rewards as an increasing function of the difficulty to obtain those rewards. It's probably also similar to having NPCs of varying difficulty. So, the question could have been, why don't MMOs just equip players with the best stuff when they first start?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lots of research with animals and humans analyzing choice has found that changing from one option to another ( e.g. , the decision to move from one game zone to another ) is controlled by the relative rate of reinforcement for those choices AND the effort required to change from one choice to the other .
For example , studies have manipulated the physical distance between two keys in an operant chamber and found that as the distance increases , animals tend to respond more exclusively on the key with the higher-rate of reinforcement .
As the cost or effort to change decreases , choice becomes less sensitive to differences in the rate of reinforcement among the alternatives .
Instead of manipulating physical distance , experimenters have also required subjects to respond on a change-over key .
Increases in the response-requirement on the change-over key produce effects similar to increasing physical distance .
So , increasing the effort to move from one zone to another likely produces real changes in how players distribute their time in those zones .
Good game designers probably distribute the best in-game rewards as an increasing function of the difficulty to obtain those rewards .
It 's probably also similar to having NPCs of varying difficulty .
So , the question could have been , why do n't MMOs just equip players with the best stuff when they first start ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lots of research with animals and humans analyzing choice has found that changing from one option to another (e.g., the decision to move from one game zone to another) is controlled by the relative rate of reinforcement for those choices AND the effort required to change from one choice to the other.
For example, studies have manipulated the physical distance between two keys in an operant chamber and found that as the distance increases, animals tend to respond more exclusively on the key with the higher-rate of reinforcement.
As the cost or effort to change decreases, choice becomes less sensitive to differences in the rate of reinforcement among the alternatives.
Instead of manipulating physical distance, experimenters have also required subjects to respond on a change-over key.
Increases in the response-requirement on the change-over key produce effects similar to increasing physical distance.
So, increasing the effort to move from one zone to another likely produces real changes in how players distribute their time in those zones.
Good game designers probably distribute the best in-game rewards as an increasing function of the difficulty to obtain those rewards.
It's probably also similar to having NPCs of varying difficulty.
So, the question could have been, why don't MMOs just equip players with the best stuff when they first start?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503265</id>
	<title>Re:Why doesn't real life allow easier transportati</title>
	<author>KarlIsNotMyName</author>
	<datestamp>1246199820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ah, the RL argument. Excuse me while I resurrect for the 6th time today, and begin again with shooting fire from my hands.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah , the RL argument .
Excuse me while I resurrect for the 6th time today , and begin again with shooting fire from my hands .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah, the RL argument.
Excuse me while I resurrect for the 6th time today, and begin again with shooting fire from my hands.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502911</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504735</id>
	<title>Oblivion's elegant solution</title>
	<author>unix\_geek\_512</author>
	<datestamp>1246210860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oblivion is not an MMO but it implements a fairly elegant solution to this problem.</p><p>You're allowed to fast travel between all the major cities right off the bat and other explored locations once they have been discovered.</p><p>You can also acquire a horse and ride around.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oblivion is not an MMO but it implements a fairly elegant solution to this problem.You 're allowed to fast travel between all the major cities right off the bat and other explored locations once they have been discovered.You can also acquire a horse and ride around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oblivion is not an MMO but it implements a fairly elegant solution to this problem.You're allowed to fast travel between all the major cities right off the bat and other explored locations once they have been discovered.You can also acquire a horse and ride around.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28511001</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246307580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A great solution could be instead of a hearthstone, you could buy a portstone. Then, any place you've already been to, you can teleport to instantly. That would be easy to do. It might be expensive, so low level players couldn't afford it, and when you could afford it, it would be a real treat.</p><p>How does that sound?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A great solution could be instead of a hearthstone , you could buy a portstone .
Then , any place you 've already been to , you can teleport to instantly .
That would be easy to do .
It might be expensive , so low level players could n't afford it , and when you could afford it , it would be a real treat.How does that sound ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A great solution could be instead of a hearthstone, you could buy a portstone.
Then, any place you've already been to, you can teleport to instantly.
That would be easy to do.
It might be expensive, so low level players couldn't afford it, and when you could afford it, it would be a real treat.How does that sound?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502563</id>
	<title>Developer Laziness or UO, Rune Books, SWG and WoW</title>
	<author>The\_Myth</author>
	<datestamp>1246191840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It really depends a lot on the game.  In Ultima Online you had a system where you could take a bunch of runes and mark them at a location and then teleport to that location later on.  To do this you needed to have some magic skill which meant less points you could spend on other things.  For the non mages other ingame crafters could make Rune Books and sell them and also scrolls of teleportation and Portal.  Its not a technical problem and more developer laziness.  SWG even has a reward that is an instant transport ship that people could obtain.</p><p>In WOW the mages can do the same things but just to specified town locations.  Still in WoW Engineers can make transporters to a couple of other locations.  Yes not everything in WoW is as good as it could be but its the unfortunate yard stick that others try to measure up to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It really depends a lot on the game .
In Ultima Online you had a system where you could take a bunch of runes and mark them at a location and then teleport to that location later on .
To do this you needed to have some magic skill which meant less points you could spend on other things .
For the non mages other ingame crafters could make Rune Books and sell them and also scrolls of teleportation and Portal .
Its not a technical problem and more developer laziness .
SWG even has a reward that is an instant transport ship that people could obtain.In WOW the mages can do the same things but just to specified town locations .
Still in WoW Engineers can make transporters to a couple of other locations .
Yes not everything in WoW is as good as it could be but its the unfortunate yard stick that others try to measure up to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It really depends a lot on the game.
In Ultima Online you had a system where you could take a bunch of runes and mark them at a location and then teleport to that location later on.
To do this you needed to have some magic skill which meant less points you could spend on other things.
For the non mages other ingame crafters could make Rune Books and sell them and also scrolls of teleportation and Portal.
Its not a technical problem and more developer laziness.
SWG even has a reward that is an instant transport ship that people could obtain.In WOW the mages can do the same things but just to specified town locations.
Still in WoW Engineers can make transporters to a couple of other locations.
Yes not everything in WoW is as good as it could be but its the unfortunate yard stick that others try to measure up to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502509</id>
	<title>What do you want...</title>
	<author>johndmartiniii</author>
	<datestamp>1246191120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>a WoW Undeground?</htmltext>
<tokenext>a WoW Undeground ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a WoW Undeground?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28518971</id>
	<title>Flight Sim Reality options</title>
	<author>sgt scrub</author>
	<datestamp>1246267080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It reminds me of the old war plane flight sim's.  You had the option of turning on/off real time travel time.  If you wanted the realism (first time playing) you would turn it on.  Then they made it where you could speed up travel time with a single key.  I'm sure it wouldn't work on MMO's because someone would be playing it for the first time and enjoying exploring.  I'm sure some people enjoy the trip every time.  I could definitely see the want for Oblivion fast travel functionality though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It reminds me of the old war plane flight sim 's .
You had the option of turning on/off real time travel time .
If you wanted the realism ( first time playing ) you would turn it on .
Then they made it where you could speed up travel time with a single key .
I 'm sure it would n't work on MMO 's because someone would be playing it for the first time and enjoying exploring .
I 'm sure some people enjoy the trip every time .
I could definitely see the want for Oblivion fast travel functionality though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It reminds me of the old war plane flight sim's.
You had the option of turning on/off real time travel time.
If you wanted the realism (first time playing) you would turn it on.
Then they made it where you could speed up travel time with a single key.
I'm sure it wouldn't work on MMO's because someone would be playing it for the first time and enjoying exploring.
I'm sure some people enjoy the trip every time.
I could definitely see the want for Oblivion fast travel functionality though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503103</id>
	<title>Transport based on level</title>
	<author>hal9000(jr)</author>
	<datestamp>1246198380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I played EQ for a while and I never acheived an uber level--traveling was still risky for me. I could buff up and avoid the worst of it, but yeah, getting from here to there was often a difficult choice. For the areas where I felt no risk traveling through, those were short. <br> <br>

I think what would make sense is to base a teleport on the players level, the area level, and distance. If you are at a high enough level that the area doesn't pose much risk, then let them transport over it, especially if you have to go from one place to another through easy levels. It makes the game play better for high level players and gives an extra benefit for long term play.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I played EQ for a while and I never acheived an uber level--traveling was still risky for me .
I could buff up and avoid the worst of it , but yeah , getting from here to there was often a difficult choice .
For the areas where I felt no risk traveling through , those were short .
I think what would make sense is to base a teleport on the players level , the area level , and distance .
If you are at a high enough level that the area does n't pose much risk , then let them transport over it , especially if you have to go from one place to another through easy levels .
It makes the game play better for high level players and gives an extra benefit for long term play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I played EQ for a while and I never acheived an uber level--traveling was still risky for me.
I could buff up and avoid the worst of it, but yeah, getting from here to there was often a difficult choice.
For the areas where I felt no risk traveling through, those were short.
I think what would make sense is to base a teleport on the players level, the area level, and distance.
If you are at a high enough level that the area doesn't pose much risk, then let them transport over it, especially if you have to go from one place to another through easy levels.
It makes the game play better for high level players and gives an extra benefit for long term play.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505379</id>
	<title>Re:Why doesn't real life allow easier transportati</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246214880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your post was *not* insightful. Everybody knows games aren't real life. It is useful for games to not model real life when doing so can make the game more fun. Walking through the same boring areas where you won't get any experience points and also won't experience anything you haven't 20 times before is *boring*. Games are supposed to be fun. Adding things like the ability to instantly teleport to anywhere you've already been means you can cut out the boring travel time. Whether or not it is realistic is beside the point.</p><p>Another example: hit points (or heath, if you prefer). They're a useful abstraction, but it doesn't really stand up to close examination. In real life, attack effectiveness varies according to what part of the body you're attacking, the weapon you're using, etc. In real life there are a lot more ways to "instakill" somebody than there are in most games. In real life, somebody isn't going to be able to fight back after you hit them over the head really hard with a giant hammer. Even so, hit points are a useful abstraction because it makes the game easier to understand - it also makes comparing the relative merits of various weapons, attacks, skills, etc possible - although at that point you're getting into the realm of attributes that determine a character's ability to withstand attacks of a certain type.</p><p>Anyway, my point is this: Allowing such things in a game is a good idea when doing so makes the game more fun and doesn't destroy any of the core mechanics of the game. If you were talking about a racing game, for instance, allowing instant teleportation from one part of the track to another whenever you want would be a bad idea, obviously. However, allowing you to select which track you want to race on next without having to experience the travel time between the two race tracks doesn't detract from the main point of the game - it just makes the game more playable and fun.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your post was * not * insightful .
Everybody knows games are n't real life .
It is useful for games to not model real life when doing so can make the game more fun .
Walking through the same boring areas where you wo n't get any experience points and also wo n't experience anything you have n't 20 times before is * boring * .
Games are supposed to be fun .
Adding things like the ability to instantly teleport to anywhere you 've already been means you can cut out the boring travel time .
Whether or not it is realistic is beside the point.Another example : hit points ( or heath , if you prefer ) .
They 're a useful abstraction , but it does n't really stand up to close examination .
In real life , attack effectiveness varies according to what part of the body you 're attacking , the weapon you 're using , etc .
In real life there are a lot more ways to " instakill " somebody than there are in most games .
In real life , somebody is n't going to be able to fight back after you hit them over the head really hard with a giant hammer .
Even so , hit points are a useful abstraction because it makes the game easier to understand - it also makes comparing the relative merits of various weapons , attacks , skills , etc possible - although at that point you 're getting into the realm of attributes that determine a character 's ability to withstand attacks of a certain type.Anyway , my point is this : Allowing such things in a game is a good idea when doing so makes the game more fun and does n't destroy any of the core mechanics of the game .
If you were talking about a racing game , for instance , allowing instant teleportation from one part of the track to another whenever you want would be a bad idea , obviously .
However , allowing you to select which track you want to race on next without having to experience the travel time between the two race tracks does n't detract from the main point of the game - it just makes the game more playable and fun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your post was *not* insightful.
Everybody knows games aren't real life.
It is useful for games to not model real life when doing so can make the game more fun.
Walking through the same boring areas where you won't get any experience points and also won't experience anything you haven't 20 times before is *boring*.
Games are supposed to be fun.
Adding things like the ability to instantly teleport to anywhere you've already been means you can cut out the boring travel time.
Whether or not it is realistic is beside the point.Another example: hit points (or heath, if you prefer).
They're a useful abstraction, but it doesn't really stand up to close examination.
In real life, attack effectiveness varies according to what part of the body you're attacking, the weapon you're using, etc.
In real life there are a lot more ways to "instakill" somebody than there are in most games.
In real life, somebody isn't going to be able to fight back after you hit them over the head really hard with a giant hammer.
Even so, hit points are a useful abstraction because it makes the game easier to understand - it also makes comparing the relative merits of various weapons, attacks, skills, etc possible - although at that point you're getting into the realm of attributes that determine a character's ability to withstand attacks of a certain type.Anyway, my point is this: Allowing such things in a game is a good idea when doing so makes the game more fun and doesn't destroy any of the core mechanics of the game.
If you were talking about a racing game, for instance, allowing instant teleportation from one part of the track to another whenever you want would be a bad idea, obviously.
However, allowing you to select which track you want to race on next without having to experience the travel time between the two race tracks doesn't detract from the main point of the game - it just makes the game more playable and fun.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502911</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502733</id>
	<title>Why should they?</title>
	<author>KenMcM</author>
	<datestamp>1246194000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's a great way to stay in shape.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a great way to stay in shape .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a great way to stay in shape.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28517911</id>
	<title>Re:Uhhh because it would allow you to cheat?</title>
	<author>geminidomino</author>
	<datestamp>1246306260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you've been somewhere before and can 'teleport' back quicker, and someone who hasn't been there before  must follow the path, it gives you a possibly unbeatable advantage.</p></div><p>How many foot-races are there in modern MMOs? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 've been somewhere before and can 'teleport ' back quicker , and someone who has n't been there before must follow the path , it gives you a possibly unbeatable advantage.How many foot-races are there in modern MMOs ?
That 's the dumbest thing I 've ever heard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you've been somewhere before and can 'teleport' back quicker, and someone who hasn't been there before  must follow the path, it gives you a possibly unbeatable advantage.How many foot-races are there in modern MMOs?
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502663</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>blahplusplus</author>
	<datestamp>1246193220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The truth is they don't want players whipping through all the content in the first month.  So they nerfed travel so people can't "finish" the game and move on, it's really damn cheap if you ask me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The truth is they do n't want players whipping through all the content in the first month .
So they nerfed travel so people ca n't " finish " the game and move on , it 's really damn cheap if you ask me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The truth is they don't want players whipping through all the content in the first month.
So they nerfed travel so people can't "finish" the game and move on, it's really damn cheap if you ask me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502609</id>
	<title>That my friend is why you are a couch potato</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246192500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"But you know what? Once I've been there, that moment's gone. I've discovered it already. I did the exploring."</p><p>That my friend is why you are a couch potato playing MMO games rather than hiking in the Rockies or scuba diving in the Maldives out there in the real world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" But you know what ?
Once I 've been there , that moment 's gone .
I 've discovered it already .
I did the exploring .
" That my friend is why you are a couch potato playing MMO games rather than hiking in the Rockies or scuba diving in the Maldives out there in the real world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"But you know what?
Once I've been there, that moment's gone.
I've discovered it already.
I did the exploring.
"That my friend is why you are a couch potato playing MMO games rather than hiking in the Rockies or scuba diving in the Maldives out there in the real world.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28515859</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Unoti</author>
	<datestamp>1246298280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>You don't need more than 10 minutes ? If you got guys in a capital which isn't dalaran without their heartstone ready...</p></div></blockquote><p>
The bottom line here is your people are rude idiots.  It's raid time, and they are taking more than 10 minutes to get there?  What kind of idiot isn't bound in Dalaran and/or has their hearth stone on cooldown <i>when it is a schedule raid time</i>?  Don't be silly.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't need more than 10 minutes ?
If you got guys in a capital which is n't dalaran without their heartstone ready.. . The bottom line here is your people are rude idiots .
It 's raid time , and they are taking more than 10 minutes to get there ?
What kind of idiot is n't bound in Dalaran and/or has their hearth stone on cooldown when it is a schedule raid time ?
Do n't be silly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't need more than 10 minutes ?
If you got guys in a capital which isn't dalaran without their heartstone ready...
The bottom line here is your people are rude idiots.
It's raid time, and they are taking more than 10 minutes to get there?
What kind of idiot isn't bound in Dalaran and/or has their hearth stone on cooldown when it is a schedule raid time?
Don't be silly.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503035</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Miros</author>
	<datestamp>1246197600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is exactly right.  One of the reasons that the world feels so small as a result is large pieces of it are totally useless if you remove the utility value of the road or flypoint.  With teleportation there are large parts of the world that people would simply never go to; which in wow is honestly bad enough at this point when they screw up and don't give a city enough useful things (silvermoon for example is a ghost town).  Transit hubs force players together in a way that teleporting everywhere would seriously undermine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is exactly right .
One of the reasons that the world feels so small as a result is large pieces of it are totally useless if you remove the utility value of the road or flypoint .
With teleportation there are large parts of the world that people would simply never go to ; which in wow is honestly bad enough at this point when they screw up and do n't give a city enough useful things ( silvermoon for example is a ghost town ) .
Transit hubs force players together in a way that teleporting everywhere would seriously undermine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is exactly right.
One of the reasons that the world feels so small as a result is large pieces of it are totally useless if you remove the utility value of the road or flypoint.
With teleportation there are large parts of the world that people would simply never go to; which in wow is honestly bad enough at this point when they screw up and don't give a city enough useful things (silvermoon for example is a ghost town).
Transit hubs force players together in a way that teleporting everywhere would seriously undermine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506087</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Ultra64</author>
	<datestamp>1246219500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>hearthstones are a 30 minute cooldown, and the meeting stones allow you to instantly summon people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>hearthstones are a 30 minute cooldown , and the meeting stones allow you to instantly summon people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hearthstones are a 30 minute cooldown, and the meeting stones allow you to instantly summon people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28510145</id>
	<title>They're built in RL breaks.</title>
	<author>timbloom</author>
	<datestamp>1246213320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I typically don't find myself bothered by travel time anymore other than to a few locations that are very far from a town that I can port to from Dalaran in WoW.  The area around blackrock mountain can be the worst.  I assume if people actually needed to go there much these days they'd change that.  All it really takes is informing the developers that enough people would like it changed to make it worth their labor.  Other than some vanilla wow content, no flight path seems to take over 5 minutes.  Most of that time I spend either chatting with other players or doing other things around the house.  It's also nice outside sometimes, you know?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I typically do n't find myself bothered by travel time anymore other than to a few locations that are very far from a town that I can port to from Dalaran in WoW .
The area around blackrock mountain can be the worst .
I assume if people actually needed to go there much these days they 'd change that .
All it really takes is informing the developers that enough people would like it changed to make it worth their labor .
Other than some vanilla wow content , no flight path seems to take over 5 minutes .
Most of that time I spend either chatting with other players or doing other things around the house .
It 's also nice outside sometimes , you know ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I typically don't find myself bothered by travel time anymore other than to a few locations that are very far from a town that I can port to from Dalaran in WoW.
The area around blackrock mountain can be the worst.
I assume if people actually needed to go there much these days they'd change that.
All it really takes is informing the developers that enough people would like it changed to make it worth their labor.
Other than some vanilla wow content, no flight path seems to take over 5 minutes.
Most of that time I spend either chatting with other players or doing other things around the house.
It's also nice outside sometimes, you know?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506073</id>
	<title>Bio breaks</title>
	<author>AlpineR</author>
	<datestamp>1246219440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Oh, and it also gives me a chance to get myself a cup of coffee and go to the toilet<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div></blockquote><p>My number one answer is to keep the world big. But I think you nailed number two.</p><p>People can and do play themselves to death with big, immersive online games. Many more play themselves sick. Some forced downtime is a good thing for letting a few rational brain cells get a turn to take care of the body (food, exercise, rest, eliminate, clean) rather than suffer at the hands of all the twitch and reward cells.</p><p>I don't think this is the reason they made slow transportation, but I think Blizzard is wise enough to realize it's a good reason to keep it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , and it also gives me a chance to get myself a cup of coffee and go to the toilet : ) My number one answer is to keep the world big .
But I think you nailed number two.People can and do play themselves to death with big , immersive online games .
Many more play themselves sick .
Some forced downtime is a good thing for letting a few rational brain cells get a turn to take care of the body ( food , exercise , rest , eliminate , clean ) rather than suffer at the hands of all the twitch and reward cells.I do n't think this is the reason they made slow transportation , but I think Blizzard is wise enough to realize it 's a good reason to keep it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, and it also gives me a chance to get myself a cup of coffee and go to the toilet :)My number one answer is to keep the world big.
But I think you nailed number two.People can and do play themselves to death with big, immersive online games.
Many more play themselves sick.
Some forced downtime is a good thing for letting a few rational brain cells get a turn to take care of the body (food, exercise, rest, eliminate, clean) rather than suffer at the hands of all the twitch and reward cells.I don't think this is the reason they made slow transportation, but I think Blizzard is wise enough to realize it's a good reason to keep it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504859</id>
	<title>LoTR was a big long trip of suck</title>
	<author>Junior J. Junior III</author>
	<datestamp>1246211520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, why they didn't just put the One Ring into a wicker basket, give it to the King of the Eagles, and have him fly directly to Mount Doom and drop the basket into the pit of lava, thereby saving me some 1500 pages of dreary reading about overland travel, I don't understand.  There is absolutely no reason why anyone should have to spend time traveling through Middle Earth in order to get anywhere.  In conclusion, Lord of the Rings sucked, and was a massive waste of time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , why they did n't just put the One Ring into a wicker basket , give it to the King of the Eagles , and have him fly directly to Mount Doom and drop the basket into the pit of lava , thereby saving me some 1500 pages of dreary reading about overland travel , I do n't understand .
There is absolutely no reason why anyone should have to spend time traveling through Middle Earth in order to get anywhere .
In conclusion , Lord of the Rings sucked , and was a massive waste of time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, why they didn't just put the One Ring into a wicker basket, give it to the King of the Eagles, and have him fly directly to Mount Doom and drop the basket into the pit of lava, thereby saving me some 1500 pages of dreary reading about overland travel, I don't understand.
There is absolutely no reason why anyone should have to spend time traveling through Middle Earth in order to get anywhere.
In conclusion, Lord of the Rings sucked, and was a massive waste of time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503137</id>
	<title>economic implications</title>
	<author>khallow</author>
	<datestamp>1246198740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Another implication of instantaneous travel would be much less complex markets. This would be a major change for a game like Eve (MMO internet spaceships) where the difficulty of getting somewhere with something is a key part of the game.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Another implication of instantaneous travel would be much less complex markets .
This would be a major change for a game like Eve ( MMO internet spaceships ) where the difficulty of getting somewhere with something is a key part of the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another implication of instantaneous travel would be much less complex markets.
This would be a major change for a game like Eve (MMO internet spaceships) where the difficulty of getting somewhere with something is a key part of the game.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505489</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246215540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>WoW Patch 3.2 is adding more portals, another zeppelin, more mounts, and lowering the normal riding mounts to level 20, epic to 40, flying to 60, and epic flying to 70.  There will probably also be another flight point for the new area north of the Coliseum, for the lazy.</p><p>In addition they're adding another heirloom chest that increases exp gain by a stacking 10\%, which allows you to level faster to attain those faster mounts and get out of the slower doldrummy old world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WoW Patch 3.2 is adding more portals , another zeppelin , more mounts , and lowering the normal riding mounts to level 20 , epic to 40 , flying to 60 , and epic flying to 70 .
There will probably also be another flight point for the new area north of the Coliseum , for the lazy.In addition they 're adding another heirloom chest that increases exp gain by a stacking 10 \ % , which allows you to level faster to attain those faster mounts and get out of the slower doldrummy old world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WoW Patch 3.2 is adding more portals, another zeppelin, more mounts, and lowering the normal riding mounts to level 20, epic to 40, flying to 60, and epic flying to 70.
There will probably also be another flight point for the new area north of the Coliseum, for the lazy.In addition they're adding another heirloom chest that increases exp gain by a stacking 10\%, which allows you to level faster to attain those faster mounts and get out of the slower doldrummy old world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503191</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502993</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>stephenslashdot</author>
	<datestamp>1246197120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree with you completely, but would also add that in some games, like Everquest, where resources like rare and raid mobs were artificially restricted (the "boss" mobs spawned basically once a week, give or take a few hours for randomization, and once anyone on the server killed it, it was dead for everyone, instead of being instanced like WoW), travel time would be one of the key factors in deciding who got to kill the mob... it wasn't just about having enough players online, it was having enough players online with the best transport logistics (a team of mages summoning other players).

Also, in PvP games travel time helps add an element of strategy to the games... taking out an enemy's outlier's and sneaking away is viable, but if everyone could instantly teleport nearby, the army with the most forces would pretty much always win, leading to one dominant army and everyone else figuring the game is pointless.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with you completely , but would also add that in some games , like Everquest , where resources like rare and raid mobs were artificially restricted ( the " boss " mobs spawned basically once a week , give or take a few hours for randomization , and once anyone on the server killed it , it was dead for everyone , instead of being instanced like WoW ) , travel time would be one of the key factors in deciding who got to kill the mob... it was n't just about having enough players online , it was having enough players online with the best transport logistics ( a team of mages summoning other players ) .
Also , in PvP games travel time helps add an element of strategy to the games... taking out an enemy 's outlier 's and sneaking away is viable , but if everyone could instantly teleport nearby , the army with the most forces would pretty much always win , leading to one dominant army and everyone else figuring the game is pointless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with you completely, but would also add that in some games, like Everquest, where resources like rare and raid mobs were artificially restricted (the "boss" mobs spawned basically once a week, give or take a few hours for randomization, and once anyone on the server killed it, it was dead for everyone, instead of being instanced like WoW), travel time would be one of the key factors in deciding who got to kill the mob... it wasn't just about having enough players online, it was having enough players online with the best transport logistics (a team of mages summoning other players).
Also, in PvP games travel time helps add an element of strategy to the games... taking out an enemy's outlier's and sneaking away is viable, but if everyone could instantly teleport nearby, the army with the most forces would pretty much always win, leading to one dominant army and everyone else figuring the game is pointless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503915</id>
	<title>Travel on EVE Onliine is important</title>
	<author>Aphoxema</author>
	<datestamp>1246205280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> Jumping 20 systems to get somewhere in EVE really can be a bitch, especially if you rely on the autopilot. There's many things that effect the overall rate of travel like how fast your ship can align, how fast it accelerates, how man AU/s it gets, how many AU it is between gates, if you fall short of jump range making you travel 10-1000 meters...</p><p>I know EVE is a largely PVP based game, so it's designed largely around it. This travel time plays an incredible role, and putting your resources where you need them to fight.</p><p>In EVE, the game (for PVP'ers) would be radically perverted if travel was eliminated. Many parts of EVE can be shot to pieces if Newtonian physics are applied, but they do focus on realism as long as it's convenient to the objective.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Jumping 20 systems to get somewhere in EVE really can be a bitch , especially if you rely on the autopilot .
There 's many things that effect the overall rate of travel like how fast your ship can align , how fast it accelerates , how man AU/s it gets , how many AU it is between gates , if you fall short of jump range making you travel 10-1000 meters...I know EVE is a largely PVP based game , so it 's designed largely around it .
This travel time plays an incredible role , and putting your resources where you need them to fight.In EVE , the game ( for PVP'ers ) would be radically perverted if travel was eliminated .
Many parts of EVE can be shot to pieces if Newtonian physics are applied , but they do focus on realism as long as it 's convenient to the objective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Jumping 20 systems to get somewhere in EVE really can be a bitch, especially if you rely on the autopilot.
There's many things that effect the overall rate of travel like how fast your ship can align, how fast it accelerates, how man AU/s it gets, how many AU it is between gates, if you fall short of jump range making you travel 10-1000 meters...I know EVE is a largely PVP based game, so it's designed largely around it.
This travel time plays an incredible role, and putting your resources where you need them to fight.In EVE, the game (for PVP'ers) would be radically perverted if travel was eliminated.
Many parts of EVE can be shot to pieces if Newtonian physics are applied, but they do focus on realism as long as it's convenient to the objective.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502763</id>
	<title>It comes down to content and things to do!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246194360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A lot of people don't necessarily like traveling. World of Warcraft, to me, is a perfect balance of required travel versus ease to get to locations. You can teleport to any major city, and from there... head to your destination. Typically your travel time won't exceed 15 minutes. Look at any movie, or story... and most of the content comes from the journey there... not just once you get there. "I've been there a lot!"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... grats. They have summoning stones in World of Warcraft by the instances so your lazy butt doesn't have to run/fly/swim/whatever.</p><p>Fact is... your post seems more out of lazy ADD'ness than anything. You want to complain? Go play Everquest 1.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of people do n't necessarily like traveling .
World of Warcraft , to me , is a perfect balance of required travel versus ease to get to locations .
You can teleport to any major city , and from there... head to your destination .
Typically your travel time wo n't exceed 15 minutes .
Look at any movie , or story... and most of the content comes from the journey there... not just once you get there .
" I 've been there a lot !
" ... grats. They have summoning stones in World of Warcraft by the instances so your lazy butt does n't have to run/fly/swim/whatever.Fact is... your post seems more out of lazy ADD'ness than anything .
You want to complain ?
Go play Everquest 1 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of people don't necessarily like traveling.
World of Warcraft, to me, is a perfect balance of required travel versus ease to get to locations.
You can teleport to any major city, and from there... head to your destination.
Typically your travel time won't exceed 15 minutes.
Look at any movie, or story... and most of the content comes from the journey there... not just once you get there.
"I've been there a lot!
" ... grats. They have summoning stones in World of Warcraft by the instances so your lazy butt doesn't have to run/fly/swim/whatever.Fact is... your post seems more out of lazy ADD'ness than anything.
You want to complain?
Go play Everquest 1.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502443</id>
	<title>Obviously no one here reads Hitchcock....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246190280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He pointed out that the fun does NOT come from seeing the murder/special effect/what have you.</p><p>It comes from the anticipation. That's why all his films are so great - he elevated this into a rule and applied it everywhere.</p><p>The games designers are just doing the same.....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He pointed out that the fun does NOT come from seeing the murder/special effect/what have you.It comes from the anticipation .
That 's why all his films are so great - he elevated this into a rule and applied it everywhere.The games designers are just doing the same.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He pointed out that the fun does NOT come from seeing the murder/special effect/what have you.It comes from the anticipation.
That's why all his films are so great - he elevated this into a rule and applied it everywhere.The games designers are just doing the same.....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504309</id>
	<title>Entropia</title>
	<author>smd75</author>
	<datestamp>1246208100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>

Project Entropia, now Entropia Universe, allowed warping. The work was in finding the warp points. Sometimes if you died close enough to one, it gave you the warp point. After that you could warp to and from that point.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Project Entropia , now Entropia Universe , allowed warping .
The work was in finding the warp points .
Sometimes if you died close enough to one , it gave you the warp point .
After that you could warp to and from that point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>

Project Entropia, now Entropia Universe, allowed warping.
The work was in finding the warp points.
Sometimes if you died close enough to one, it gave you the warp point.
After that you could warp to and from that point.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506819</id>
	<title>A good compromise</title>
	<author>thethibs</author>
	<datestamp>1246182360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Myst</i> lets you teleport to places you've been and can see. Seems like a reasonable compromise.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Myst lets you teleport to places you 've been and can see .
Seems like a reasonable compromise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Myst lets you teleport to places you've been and can see.
Seems like a reasonable compromise.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503293</id>
	<title>Because of overcrowding</title>
	<author>Peter Cooper</author>
	<datestamp>1246200120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you could teleport anywhere within a game at any time instantly, the best places, best quests, and so forth would all be overcrowded. It's like if you could teleport anywhere instantly in real life. The California coast would be heaving every weekend and evening and numerous "hotspots" would be crowded with tens of thousands of people 24/7. Popular areas in existing games have demonstrated this, since they're usually the easiest places to get to. A key example is outside the bank in Ultima Online's Britain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you could teleport anywhere within a game at any time instantly , the best places , best quests , and so forth would all be overcrowded .
It 's like if you could teleport anywhere instantly in real life .
The California coast would be heaving every weekend and evening and numerous " hotspots " would be crowded with tens of thousands of people 24/7 .
Popular areas in existing games have demonstrated this , since they 're usually the easiest places to get to .
A key example is outside the bank in Ultima Online 's Britain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you could teleport anywhere within a game at any time instantly, the best places, best quests, and so forth would all be overcrowded.
It's like if you could teleport anywhere instantly in real life.
The California coast would be heaving every weekend and evening and numerous "hotspots" would be crowded with tens of thousands of people 24/7.
Popular areas in existing games have demonstrated this, since they're usually the easiest places to get to.
A key example is outside the bank in Ultima Online's Britain.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28511911</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246275000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've read blizzards employee's comment on that, and he was saying, that "if you travel faster, world feels smaller".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've read blizzards employee 's comment on that , and he was saying , that " if you travel faster , world feels smaller " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've read blizzards employee's comment on that, and he was saying, that "if you travel faster, world feels smaller".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28515001</id>
	<title>Midsummer Festival Perfect Example of the Paradigm</title>
	<author>flythebike</author>
	<datestamp>1246294920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Currently I'm trying to get the Midsummer Festival done on 2 characters. This requires me to fly all over the entire world of warcraft, three continents, and visit about 50 or so locations apiece. Some of the locations I have to use a ground mount to travel to. And the point of doing this? So I can get a 310\% speed mount by completing all 8 or 9 of these seasonal events so I won't have to spend as much time flying around. See the irony?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Currently I 'm trying to get the Midsummer Festival done on 2 characters .
This requires me to fly all over the entire world of warcraft , three continents , and visit about 50 or so locations apiece .
Some of the locations I have to use a ground mount to travel to .
And the point of doing this ?
So I can get a 310 \ % speed mount by completing all 8 or 9 of these seasonal events so I wo n't have to spend as much time flying around .
See the irony ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Currently I'm trying to get the Midsummer Festival done on 2 characters.
This requires me to fly all over the entire world of warcraft, three continents, and visit about 50 or so locations apiece.
Some of the locations I have to use a ground mount to travel to.
And the point of doing this?
So I can get a 310\% speed mount by completing all 8 or 9 of these seasonal events so I won't have to spend as much time flying around.
See the irony?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504187</id>
	<title>SWG players may remember...</title>
	<author>merreborn</author>
	<datestamp>1246207320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Playing the SWG beta, one aspect of the experience stood out.  When attempting to travel from planet to planet, you had to sit at the shuttle station for up to 5 minutes.</p><p>I did a lot of resource gathering, so I spent most of my game time out in the wilderness.  The shuttle stop ended up being the place where I was most likely to interact with other players.  I later learned that this was by design.</p><p><a href="http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/socialization.shtml" title="raphkoster.com">http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/socialization.shtml</a> [raphkoster.com]<br><a href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/12/09/forcing-interaction/" title="raphkoster.com">http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/12/09/forcing-interaction/</a> [raphkoster.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Playing the SWG beta , one aspect of the experience stood out .
When attempting to travel from planet to planet , you had to sit at the shuttle station for up to 5 minutes.I did a lot of resource gathering , so I spent most of my game time out in the wilderness .
The shuttle stop ended up being the place where I was most likely to interact with other players .
I later learned that this was by design.http : //www.raphkoster.com/gaming/socialization.shtml [ raphkoster.com ] http : //www.raphkoster.com/2005/12/09/forcing-interaction/ [ raphkoster.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Playing the SWG beta, one aspect of the experience stood out.
When attempting to travel from planet to planet, you had to sit at the shuttle station for up to 5 minutes.I did a lot of resource gathering, so I spent most of my game time out in the wilderness.
The shuttle stop ended up being the place where I was most likely to interact with other players.
I later learned that this was by design.http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/socialization.shtml [raphkoster.com]http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/12/09/forcing-interaction/ [raphkoster.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28510719</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>WNight</author>
	<datestamp>1246218240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>things that ultimately undercut the enjoyment/value of their experience.</p></div><p>Or, things that let them experience the actual content and move on when it's gone.</p><p>From the perspective of a single MMO, and its designers, it's understandable why having people blink from place to place isn't as desirable. They want you to experience things at a specific pace. Both for optimum (assuming this is all you have to do) fun, and to keep you paying.</p><p>And yes, there is(/can be) considerable fun in exploring a neat virtual world. But only when it interests you. Yes, you probably will appreciate the content more if you have to strive for it, but why "work", grinding/slogging/waiting through something? This is a game.</p><p>The entire RPG community is stuck on this idea of new character who start with a pointed stick, stabbing rats until their basic characteristics have increased to the point where they can now stab orcs, etc. This tired trek through mundanity sums up 95\% of the content of all RPGs. While this is where the much of flavor of the game is, it's also just rat killing and being forced to walk through some big level just to keep playtime at 50+ hours.</p><p>There's some interest to be had in watching a character level up, the first few times. After a while you just want a fast-forward button.</p><p>Forcing everyone into the slog just because it gives the newbies/whiners a slightly richer experience seems pathetic.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>things that ultimately undercut the enjoyment/value of their experience.Or , things that let them experience the actual content and move on when it 's gone.From the perspective of a single MMO , and its designers , it 's understandable why having people blink from place to place is n't as desirable .
They want you to experience things at a specific pace .
Both for optimum ( assuming this is all you have to do ) fun , and to keep you paying.And yes , there is ( /can be ) considerable fun in exploring a neat virtual world .
But only when it interests you .
Yes , you probably will appreciate the content more if you have to strive for it , but why " work " , grinding/slogging/waiting through something ?
This is a game.The entire RPG community is stuck on this idea of new character who start with a pointed stick , stabbing rats until their basic characteristics have increased to the point where they can now stab orcs , etc .
This tired trek through mundanity sums up 95 \ % of the content of all RPGs .
While this is where the much of flavor of the game is , it 's also just rat killing and being forced to walk through some big level just to keep playtime at 50 + hours.There 's some interest to be had in watching a character level up , the first few times .
After a while you just want a fast-forward button.Forcing everyone into the slog just because it gives the newbies/whiners a slightly richer experience seems pathetic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>things that ultimately undercut the enjoyment/value of their experience.Or, things that let them experience the actual content and move on when it's gone.From the perspective of a single MMO, and its designers, it's understandable why having people blink from place to place isn't as desirable.
They want you to experience things at a specific pace.
Both for optimum (assuming this is all you have to do) fun, and to keep you paying.And yes, there is(/can be) considerable fun in exploring a neat virtual world.
But only when it interests you.
Yes, you probably will appreciate the content more if you have to strive for it, but why "work", grinding/slogging/waiting through something?
This is a game.The entire RPG community is stuck on this idea of new character who start with a pointed stick, stabbing rats until their basic characteristics have increased to the point where they can now stab orcs, etc.
This tired trek through mundanity sums up 95\% of the content of all RPGs.
While this is where the much of flavor of the game is, it's also just rat killing and being forced to walk through some big level just to keep playtime at 50+ hours.There's some interest to be had in watching a character level up, the first few times.
After a while you just want a fast-forward button.Forcing everyone into the slog just because it gives the newbies/whiners a slightly richer experience seems pathetic.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504787</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>ildon</author>
	<datestamp>1246211100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is wrong, at least in NA/EU markets, because time spent playing does not coincide with amount paid. MMO's here use the monthly fee model where it doesn't matter if you play for 1 hour or 100 hours in a month, you pay the same.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is wrong , at least in NA/EU markets , because time spent playing does not coincide with amount paid .
MMO 's here use the monthly fee model where it does n't matter if you play for 1 hour or 100 hours in a month , you pay the same .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is wrong, at least in NA/EU markets, because time spent playing does not coincide with amount paid.
MMO's here use the monthly fee model where it doesn't matter if you play for 1 hour or 100 hours in a month, you pay the same.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28538055</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>justinlee37</author>
	<datestamp>1246377480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>The amount of money I spend on my WoW subscription in one month, I can burn through in the pub in about 2 hours</i> </p><p>I can burn through $15 at the pub in 15 minutes!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The amount of money I spend on my WoW subscription in one month , I can burn through in the pub in about 2 hours I can burn through $ 15 at the pub in 15 minutes !</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The amount of money I spend on my WoW subscription in one month, I can burn through in the pub in about 2 hours I can burn through $15 at the pub in 15 minutes!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502545</id>
	<title>Re:Or, the alternative...</title>
	<author>NightRain</author>
	<datestamp>1246191540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Absolutely.  Kirith Kodachi even wrote <a href="http://www.ninveah.com/2009/06/travel-times-in-mmos-why-they-are.html" title="ninveah.com">a blog entry on why they're important</a> [ninveah.com] recently.  As someone who makes their (ingame) living off of the market in EVE, instant travel would make it impossible to turn a profit in this manner</htmltext>
<tokenext>Absolutely .
Kirith Kodachi even wrote a blog entry on why they 're important [ ninveah.com ] recently .
As someone who makes their ( ingame ) living off of the market in EVE , instant travel would make it impossible to turn a profit in this manner</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Absolutely.
Kirith Kodachi even wrote a blog entry on why they're important [ninveah.com] recently.
As someone who makes their (ingame) living off of the market in EVE, instant travel would make it impossible to turn a profit in this manner</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502453</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246190460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One Word:</p><p>Moongates</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One Word : Moongates</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One Word:Moongates</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504633</id>
	<title>Missing the obvious in-between</title>
	<author>WillyWanker</author>
	<datestamp>1246210320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A lot of this discussion is rather binary, with talk of walking versus instant teleportation. I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle. I don't think instant teleportation is the answer. I think faster moving speeds are the key. I don't have a problem "walking" from point A to point B, but the base travel speed in most games is painfully slow. Hell, even normal mount speeds in WoW are too slow (epic land speed feels about right to me).<br><br>It's also interesting to note how games like WoW and City of Heroes periodically add new features that help players get around faster. Ground mounts in WoW used to be level 40. Now they are 30. In the next patch they will be 20. Many classes now have talents that boost their running and/or mount speed. So developers obviously know this is a big issue amongst players. I think as a game's life goes on year after year it becomes a bigger and bigger issue for many players, which is probably why the speedups have been slowly added over time.<br><br>It also seems very obvious to me why the slow speeds are there to begin with. As others have stated it's simply to ensure it takes players longer to get thru game content. Plain and simple, it's a timesink. But as I said, over time this quickly becomes an annoyance to most, which is why many games keep trying to shoehorn in various kinds of speedups.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of this discussion is rather binary , with talk of walking versus instant teleportation .
I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle .
I do n't think instant teleportation is the answer .
I think faster moving speeds are the key .
I do n't have a problem " walking " from point A to point B , but the base travel speed in most games is painfully slow .
Hell , even normal mount speeds in WoW are too slow ( epic land speed feels about right to me ) .It 's also interesting to note how games like WoW and City of Heroes periodically add new features that help players get around faster .
Ground mounts in WoW used to be level 40 .
Now they are 30 .
In the next patch they will be 20 .
Many classes now have talents that boost their running and/or mount speed .
So developers obviously know this is a big issue amongst players .
I think as a game 's life goes on year after year it becomes a bigger and bigger issue for many players , which is probably why the speedups have been slowly added over time.It also seems very obvious to me why the slow speeds are there to begin with .
As others have stated it 's simply to ensure it takes players longer to get thru game content .
Plain and simple , it 's a timesink .
But as I said , over time this quickly becomes an annoyance to most , which is why many games keep trying to shoehorn in various kinds of speedups .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of this discussion is rather binary, with talk of walking versus instant teleportation.
I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle.
I don't think instant teleportation is the answer.
I think faster moving speeds are the key.
I don't have a problem "walking" from point A to point B, but the base travel speed in most games is painfully slow.
Hell, even normal mount speeds in WoW are too slow (epic land speed feels about right to me).It's also interesting to note how games like WoW and City of Heroes periodically add new features that help players get around faster.
Ground mounts in WoW used to be level 40.
Now they are 30.
In the next patch they will be 20.
Many classes now have talents that boost their running and/or mount speed.
So developers obviously know this is a big issue amongst players.
I think as a game's life goes on year after year it becomes a bigger and bigger issue for many players, which is probably why the speedups have been slowly added over time.It also seems very obvious to me why the slow speeds are there to begin with.
As others have stated it's simply to ensure it takes players longer to get thru game content.
Plain and simple, it's a timesink.
But as I said, over time this quickly becomes an annoyance to most, which is why many games keep trying to shoehorn in various kinds of speedups.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28509377</id>
	<title>HEY BUDDY.</title>
	<author>ZeroZen</author>
	<datestamp>1246206360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LESS QQ. MORE PEW PEW.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LESS QQ .
MORE PEW PEW .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LESS QQ.
MORE PEW PEW.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504475</id>
	<title>In my day</title>
	<author>Kamineko</author>
	<datestamp>1246209240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In my day all we had were Scrolls of Town Portal, and we liked it, damnit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my day all we had were Scrolls of Town Portal , and we liked it , damnit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my day all we had were Scrolls of Town Portal, and we liked it, damnit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28517201</id>
	<title>Dark Age of Camelot</title>
	<author>Dragoness Eclectic</author>
	<datestamp>1246303380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>DAOC originally had two modes of travel in the PVE zones: 1) you walk, 2) you buy a horse ticket and ride a pre-mapped horse route (out of the question for level 1 chars with no money). They had one mode of travel in RvR zones: you walk. Speed classes could make the "walk" option go faster.</p><p>Currently in DAOC, for PVE zones, you have portal stones that allow you to teleport *back* to your personal house, your guild house, or your current bind point. If you don't have a guild or aren't the character who owns the house on your account, those options aren't available.  You have the old horse routes, flight routes, shark routes &amp; boat routes, which are now free so lowbies can use them.  You have teleports to "hub" locations for most regions. You have a few extra teleport options that require either (a) going there on foot at least once (Catacombs cities), or (b) grinding faction (the dragon zone village). You have fast personal mounts. Speed classes still make the "walk" and "ride personal mount" options faster.</p><p>For RvR zones, you can teleport from the zone entrance keep to keeps solidly controlled by your realm in your own lands (if an enemy realm takes any outposts of a keep, it "breaks" the teleport), or ride fast boats up the rivers and across the oceans to enemy realms on pre-determined routes with known endpoints (i.e., ambush zones. Always jump from a boat before it gets to the drop point if you want to live). You can walk, or ride personal mounts. Speed classes still do their thing. Portal stones do NOT work in RvR zones(no, you can't bug out of a battle by using a portstone). RvR dungeons are even more restrictive: you walk, period.</p><p>You can get reasonably close to anywhere fairly quickly by a combination of porting to the nearest portal, riding a rental horse/boat/flying critter/shark, and then running to the start point of your quest/raid/guild hunt on your personal mount (as long as you don't have to fight your way in...). Once you've finished the dungeon/killed the dragon/whatever and are way out in the back end of nowhere, you can use your portal stone to go home without having to fight your way back out again.</p><p>I like the mix. It allows me to bypass really boring lowbie country that I've seen every other day for the last 7 years, but still requires you to go slow through the territory you are interested in--or where the inhabitants are interested in you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DAOC originally had two modes of travel in the PVE zones : 1 ) you walk , 2 ) you buy a horse ticket and ride a pre-mapped horse route ( out of the question for level 1 chars with no money ) .
They had one mode of travel in RvR zones : you walk .
Speed classes could make the " walk " option go faster.Currently in DAOC , for PVE zones , you have portal stones that allow you to teleport * back * to your personal house , your guild house , or your current bind point .
If you do n't have a guild or are n't the character who owns the house on your account , those options are n't available .
You have the old horse routes , flight routes , shark routes &amp; boat routes , which are now free so lowbies can use them .
You have teleports to " hub " locations for most regions .
You have a few extra teleport options that require either ( a ) going there on foot at least once ( Catacombs cities ) , or ( b ) grinding faction ( the dragon zone village ) .
You have fast personal mounts .
Speed classes still make the " walk " and " ride personal mount " options faster.For RvR zones , you can teleport from the zone entrance keep to keeps solidly controlled by your realm in your own lands ( if an enemy realm takes any outposts of a keep , it " breaks " the teleport ) , or ride fast boats up the rivers and across the oceans to enemy realms on pre-determined routes with known endpoints ( i.e. , ambush zones .
Always jump from a boat before it gets to the drop point if you want to live ) .
You can walk , or ride personal mounts .
Speed classes still do their thing .
Portal stones do NOT work in RvR zones ( no , you ca n't bug out of a battle by using a portstone ) .
RvR dungeons are even more restrictive : you walk , period.You can get reasonably close to anywhere fairly quickly by a combination of porting to the nearest portal , riding a rental horse/boat/flying critter/shark , and then running to the start point of your quest/raid/guild hunt on your personal mount ( as long as you do n't have to fight your way in... ) .
Once you 've finished the dungeon/killed the dragon/whatever and are way out in the back end of nowhere , you can use your portal stone to go home without having to fight your way back out again.I like the mix .
It allows me to bypass really boring lowbie country that I 've seen every other day for the last 7 years , but still requires you to go slow through the territory you are interested in--or where the inhabitants are interested in you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DAOC originally had two modes of travel in the PVE zones: 1) you walk, 2) you buy a horse ticket and ride a pre-mapped horse route (out of the question for level 1 chars with no money).
They had one mode of travel in RvR zones: you walk.
Speed classes could make the "walk" option go faster.Currently in DAOC, for PVE zones, you have portal stones that allow you to teleport *back* to your personal house, your guild house, or your current bind point.
If you don't have a guild or aren't the character who owns the house on your account, those options aren't available.
You have the old horse routes, flight routes, shark routes &amp; boat routes, which are now free so lowbies can use them.
You have teleports to "hub" locations for most regions.
You have a few extra teleport options that require either (a) going there on foot at least once (Catacombs cities), or (b) grinding faction (the dragon zone village).
You have fast personal mounts.
Speed classes still make the "walk" and "ride personal mount" options faster.For RvR zones, you can teleport from the zone entrance keep to keeps solidly controlled by your realm in your own lands (if an enemy realm takes any outposts of a keep, it "breaks" the teleport), or ride fast boats up the rivers and across the oceans to enemy realms on pre-determined routes with known endpoints (i.e., ambush zones.
Always jump from a boat before it gets to the drop point if you want to live).
You can walk, or ride personal mounts.
Speed classes still do their thing.
Portal stones do NOT work in RvR zones(no, you can't bug out of a battle by using a portstone).
RvR dungeons are even more restrictive: you walk, period.You can get reasonably close to anywhere fairly quickly by a combination of porting to the nearest portal, riding a rental horse/boat/flying critter/shark, and then running to the start point of your quest/raid/guild hunt on your personal mount (as long as you don't have to fight your way in...).
Once you've finished the dungeon/killed the dragon/whatever and are way out in the back end of nowhere, you can use your portal stone to go home without having to fight your way back out again.I like the mix.
It allows me to bypass really boring lowbie country that I've seen every other day for the last 7 years, but still requires you to go slow through the territory you are interested in--or where the inhabitants are interested in you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28508859</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>blankinthefill</author>
	<datestamp>1246200600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This statement is VERY overly simplistic.  The bandwidth costs that MMO's incur, especially large ones like WoW, are non-trivial.  More time playing per subscription period means more bandwidth costs, lowering the profit made from that subscription. Over several hundred thousand subscriptions, that could have a serious effect on profit margins.  Obviously, then, the ideal for making money is to have a game where every subscription renews, but no ones actually logs in and plays.  I don't know how you would get that into a game (wait, yes I do! Go go Eve Skill traning kits!), but most ideals don't translate that well to real life situations.  But the point is that subscription renewals are what matter, and as long as you can get those and still decrease the playtime of those subscriptions, you're going to be increasing profits.

Thinking that way, more traveling can be a a double hit:  It increases playtime per subscription, and can also push people away from resubscribing due to the tedium involved.  At the same time, instant transportation has its own cons, the biggest of which I can think of would be a massive increase in the speed at which content is completed.  Having all your content completed means that people won't be resubscribing.  Obviously then, there has to be some medium.  I don't know what it is, but I think that WoW (especially with the 3.2 patch) is probably close to it:  Travel time is non-trivial, but it's not mind-numbingly long either.  The sense of size that it gives the game world is also a positive, in my eyes.  We're told that the size of the game world is massive, but if you could transfer anywhere, you would never get that feeling.  When you actually have to travel through that world, the scope of it are much more apparent.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This statement is VERY overly simplistic .
The bandwidth costs that MMO 's incur , especially large ones like WoW , are non-trivial .
More time playing per subscription period means more bandwidth costs , lowering the profit made from that subscription .
Over several hundred thousand subscriptions , that could have a serious effect on profit margins .
Obviously , then , the ideal for making money is to have a game where every subscription renews , but no ones actually logs in and plays .
I do n't know how you would get that into a game ( wait , yes I do !
Go go Eve Skill traning kits !
) , but most ideals do n't translate that well to real life situations .
But the point is that subscription renewals are what matter , and as long as you can get those and still decrease the playtime of those subscriptions , you 're going to be increasing profits .
Thinking that way , more traveling can be a a double hit : It increases playtime per subscription , and can also push people away from resubscribing due to the tedium involved .
At the same time , instant transportation has its own cons , the biggest of which I can think of would be a massive increase in the speed at which content is completed .
Having all your content completed means that people wo n't be resubscribing .
Obviously then , there has to be some medium .
I do n't know what it is , but I think that WoW ( especially with the 3.2 patch ) is probably close to it : Travel time is non-trivial , but it 's not mind-numbingly long either .
The sense of size that it gives the game world is also a positive , in my eyes .
We 're told that the size of the game world is massive , but if you could transfer anywhere , you would never get that feeling .
When you actually have to travel through that world , the scope of it are much more apparent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This statement is VERY overly simplistic.
The bandwidth costs that MMO's incur, especially large ones like WoW, are non-trivial.
More time playing per subscription period means more bandwidth costs, lowering the profit made from that subscription.
Over several hundred thousand subscriptions, that could have a serious effect on profit margins.
Obviously, then, the ideal for making money is to have a game where every subscription renews, but no ones actually logs in and plays.
I don't know how you would get that into a game (wait, yes I do!
Go go Eve Skill traning kits!
), but most ideals don't translate that well to real life situations.
But the point is that subscription renewals are what matter, and as long as you can get those and still decrease the playtime of those subscriptions, you're going to be increasing profits.
Thinking that way, more traveling can be a a double hit:  It increases playtime per subscription, and can also push people away from resubscribing due to the tedium involved.
At the same time, instant transportation has its own cons, the biggest of which I can think of would be a massive increase in the speed at which content is completed.
Having all your content completed means that people won't be resubscribing.
Obviously then, there has to be some medium.
I don't know what it is, but I think that WoW (especially with the 3.2 patch) is probably close to it:  Travel time is non-trivial, but it's not mind-numbingly long either.
The sense of size that it gives the game world is also a positive, in my eyes.
We're told that the size of the game world is massive, but if you could transfer anywhere, you would never get that feeling.
When you actually have to travel through that world, the scope of it are much more apparent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505011</id>
	<title>Without time, WoW would not exit...</title>
	<author>sourICE</author>
	<datestamp>1246212600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All WoW and any MMO(or any other activity here on this earth for that matter) amount to are time sinks because without time all games and beings here on this planet would cease to exist.</p><p>Please let me know when you find a way around having to use so called 'time' in order to have fun.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All WoW and any MMO ( or any other activity here on this earth for that matter ) amount to are time sinks because without time all games and beings here on this planet would cease to exist.Please let me know when you find a way around having to use so called 'time ' in order to have fun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All WoW and any MMO(or any other activity here on this earth for that matter) amount to are time sinks because without time all games and beings here on this planet would cease to exist.Please let me know when you find a way around having to use so called 'time' in order to have fun.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502863</id>
	<title>Re:Automated transportation</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1246195740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>WoW has to be against bots, mostly because the game is easy enough to be scripted. There is very little "intelligent" decision making involved in the average battle, you dish out damage, you stop when you go over the aggro threshold, etc. There is little to observe and react to.</p><p>If WoW had no strong opposition against bots, farmers would kill the game even more than they already do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WoW has to be against bots , mostly because the game is easy enough to be scripted .
There is very little " intelligent " decision making involved in the average battle , you dish out damage , you stop when you go over the aggro threshold , etc .
There is little to observe and react to.If WoW had no strong opposition against bots , farmers would kill the game even more than they already do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WoW has to be against bots, mostly because the game is easy enough to be scripted.
There is very little "intelligent" decision making involved in the average battle, you dish out damage, you stop when you go over the aggro threshold, etc.
There is little to observe and react to.If WoW had no strong opposition against bots, farmers would kill the game even more than they already do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505501</id>
	<title>City of Heroes/Villians...</title>
	<author>Xin Jing</author>
	<datestamp>1246215600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If memory serves, in COH/V, you can enhance movement abilities such as flight, running or teleportation.  Given enough upgrades, eventually you can travel much faster.  This would pertain to non-combat movement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If memory serves , in COH/V , you can enhance movement abilities such as flight , running or teleportation .
Given enough upgrades , eventually you can travel much faster .
This would pertain to non-combat movement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If memory serves, in COH/V, you can enhance movement abilities such as flight, running or teleportation.
Given enough upgrades, eventually you can travel much faster.
This would pertain to non-combat movement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506449</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>SupremoMan</author>
	<datestamp>1246222260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know about that. Ultima Online, the grandfather of MMOs, has had near instantaneous travel to anywhere in the world.  Yet despite this people still gravitated towards social hubs. Though such hubs varied by server a bit as players created their own hot spots. You could go anywhere in an instant (provided you have the properly marked rune), but you might not find anyone there.</p><p>The world was still big enough to find a spot to bash monsters and not be interrupted by any but the most diligent player killers.</p><p>While UO evolved and moved towards a bit more restricted travel in some instances, it still maintained hot spots vs cold spots dynamic.  There were places that took effort to get to, and were usually deserted.  </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about that .
Ultima Online , the grandfather of MMOs , has had near instantaneous travel to anywhere in the world .
Yet despite this people still gravitated towards social hubs .
Though such hubs varied by server a bit as players created their own hot spots .
You could go anywhere in an instant ( provided you have the properly marked rune ) , but you might not find anyone there.The world was still big enough to find a spot to bash monsters and not be interrupted by any but the most diligent player killers.While UO evolved and moved towards a bit more restricted travel in some instances , it still maintained hot spots vs cold spots dynamic .
There were places that took effort to get to , and were usually deserted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about that.
Ultima Online, the grandfather of MMOs, has had near instantaneous travel to anywhere in the world.
Yet despite this people still gravitated towards social hubs.
Though such hubs varied by server a bit as players created their own hot spots.
You could go anywhere in an instant (provided you have the properly marked rune), but you might not find anyone there.The world was still big enough to find a spot to bash monsters and not be interrupted by any but the most diligent player killers.While UO evolved and moved towards a bit more restricted travel in some instances, it still maintained hot spots vs cold spots dynamic.
There were places that took effort to get to, and were usually deserted.  </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507835</id>
	<title>Congratulations</title>
	<author>aevans</author>
	<datestamp>1246190880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're growing up.  The real test is if you will find something more meaningful than a "pet rock" game to do with your time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're growing up .
The real test is if you will find something more meaningful than a " pet rock " game to do with your time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're growing up.
The real test is if you will find something more meaningful than a "pet rock" game to do with your time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504519</id>
	<title>Try City of Heroes</title>
	<author>quantum bit</author>
	<datestamp>1246209600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Transportation in City of Heroes is so much faster than other MMO's I've played.  Train stations or boats allow you to quickly move from one to zone to almost others in the same level range.  There's a multitude of shortcuts (Pocket D teleporter, day job teleporters).  There are Supergorup base teleporters that take you to almost every zone.  Once you get to level 25, you can get the Ouroboros portal, which you can summon wherever you want and allows you to instantly teleport to the key high-level zones that you visit a lot.</p><p>That's just between zones.  In the world itself, or even in instanced missions, you can move extremely fast if you pick up a travel power (first available at level 14).  Flight is the slowest, but most versatile.  "Slowest" is relative, it's still faster than epic flying mounts in WoW.  There's also Super Jumping, Super Speed, and Teleportation, in increasing order of speed and difficulty to use.</p><p>After hitting boost range and teleporting across a huge zone in a half dozen hops, when I go play WoW with friends it just takes so damn long to get anywhere.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(  Especially in the old world where the ground mounts feel so slooooow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Transportation in City of Heroes is so much faster than other MMO 's I 've played .
Train stations or boats allow you to quickly move from one to zone to almost others in the same level range .
There 's a multitude of shortcuts ( Pocket D teleporter , day job teleporters ) .
There are Supergorup base teleporters that take you to almost every zone .
Once you get to level 25 , you can get the Ouroboros portal , which you can summon wherever you want and allows you to instantly teleport to the key high-level zones that you visit a lot.That 's just between zones .
In the world itself , or even in instanced missions , you can move extremely fast if you pick up a travel power ( first available at level 14 ) .
Flight is the slowest , but most versatile .
" Slowest " is relative , it 's still faster than epic flying mounts in WoW .
There 's also Super Jumping , Super Speed , and Teleportation , in increasing order of speed and difficulty to use.After hitting boost range and teleporting across a huge zone in a half dozen hops , when I go play WoW with friends it just takes so damn long to get anywhere .
: ( Especially in the old world where the ground mounts feel so slooooow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Transportation in City of Heroes is so much faster than other MMO's I've played.
Train stations or boats allow you to quickly move from one to zone to almost others in the same level range.
There's a multitude of shortcuts (Pocket D teleporter, day job teleporters).
There are Supergorup base teleporters that take you to almost every zone.
Once you get to level 25, you can get the Ouroboros portal, which you can summon wherever you want and allows you to instantly teleport to the key high-level zones that you visit a lot.That's just between zones.
In the world itself, or even in instanced missions, you can move extremely fast if you pick up a travel power (first available at level 14).
Flight is the slowest, but most versatile.
"Slowest" is relative, it's still faster than epic flying mounts in WoW.
There's also Super Jumping, Super Speed, and Teleportation, in increasing order of speed and difficulty to use.After hitting boost range and teleporting across a huge zone in a half dozen hops, when I go play WoW with friends it just takes so damn long to get anywhere.
:(  Especially in the old world where the ground mounts feel so slooooow.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503175</id>
	<title>Problem is lack of dynamic content</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246199040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The issue isn't that transportation is slow, it's that it's boring.
<br> <br>
This is where static content fails. There is hardly ever anything new going on in an area you've already visited. Maybe game developers should focus less on expanding worlds when they do expansion packs and such, and more on coming up with systems for dynamic content delivery that mimics a living world better.
<br> <br>
I wouldn't mind a 10 min trek through a known area, if the monsters changed, little random quests popped up, or whatever else happened on the way.
<br> <br>
The issue is plainly the static nature of the world, not a lack of teleportation (or whatever other system is suggested)</htmltext>
<tokenext>The issue is n't that transportation is slow , it 's that it 's boring .
This is where static content fails .
There is hardly ever anything new going on in an area you 've already visited .
Maybe game developers should focus less on expanding worlds when they do expansion packs and such , and more on coming up with systems for dynamic content delivery that mimics a living world better .
I would n't mind a 10 min trek through a known area , if the monsters changed , little random quests popped up , or whatever else happened on the way .
The issue is plainly the static nature of the world , not a lack of teleportation ( or whatever other system is suggested )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The issue isn't that transportation is slow, it's that it's boring.
This is where static content fails.
There is hardly ever anything new going on in an area you've already visited.
Maybe game developers should focus less on expanding worlds when they do expansion packs and such, and more on coming up with systems for dynamic content delivery that mimics a living world better.
I wouldn't mind a 10 min trek through a known area, if the monsters changed, little random quests popped up, or whatever else happened on the way.
The issue is plainly the static nature of the world, not a lack of teleportation (or whatever other system is suggested)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507295</id>
	<title>Asheron's Call had great travel options.</title>
	<author>skreeech</author>
	<datestamp>1246186560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The article writer should try or have tried Asheron's Call. The game had a gigantic world to explore with little details everywhere. It would probably take days to run end to end. The game did have ways to travel fast though.</p><p>Like other games players needed somewhere to reappaer when they die, AC had lifestones, AC had HUNDREDS of lifestones. Towns had them but some wilderness areas had them as well, there were even a few rare ones inside dungeon areas. Early on in the game players had to die to get back there but that was eventually fixed, much later players got the ability store a second one accessible with spells.</p><p>Traversal of the great seemless world could be accomplished the same way as going inside/outside of dungeons - portals. In some areas there would be loops of quickly accessible portals to use like a transit system through the towns. Others would send the player to far off areas without a return. Players could save two of these with magic and summon them for themselves and others so that players could get back to that very far away place instantly, and bring friends. More and more special portal spells were added to the game over time giving the player instant access to special areas, usually islands added onto the game in patches.</p><p>The addition of landscape housing made traveling anywhere in this gigantic game easy. Near towns there would be portals to a dozen settlements of housing, Now 90\% of the mainland in the game was accessible in less than 5 minutes.</p><p>AC had a large unique sandbox world to explore and did not force the player to spend hours running if they did not want to. It was the todays "next generation mmo" in many ways but released in 1999. Oh and players ran really fast!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The article writer should try or have tried Asheron 's Call .
The game had a gigantic world to explore with little details everywhere .
It would probably take days to run end to end .
The game did have ways to travel fast though.Like other games players needed somewhere to reappaer when they die , AC had lifestones , AC had HUNDREDS of lifestones .
Towns had them but some wilderness areas had them as well , there were even a few rare ones inside dungeon areas .
Early on in the game players had to die to get back there but that was eventually fixed , much later players got the ability store a second one accessible with spells.Traversal of the great seemless world could be accomplished the same way as going inside/outside of dungeons - portals .
In some areas there would be loops of quickly accessible portals to use like a transit system through the towns .
Others would send the player to far off areas without a return .
Players could save two of these with magic and summon them for themselves and others so that players could get back to that very far away place instantly , and bring friends .
More and more special portal spells were added to the game over time giving the player instant access to special areas , usually islands added onto the game in patches.The addition of landscape housing made traveling anywhere in this gigantic game easy .
Near towns there would be portals to a dozen settlements of housing , Now 90 \ % of the mainland in the game was accessible in less than 5 minutes.AC had a large unique sandbox world to explore and did not force the player to spend hours running if they did not want to .
It was the todays " next generation mmo " in many ways but released in 1999 .
Oh and players ran really fast !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article writer should try or have tried Asheron's Call.
The game had a gigantic world to explore with little details everywhere.
It would probably take days to run end to end.
The game did have ways to travel fast though.Like other games players needed somewhere to reappaer when they die, AC had lifestones, AC had HUNDREDS of lifestones.
Towns had them but some wilderness areas had them as well, there were even a few rare ones inside dungeon areas.
Early on in the game players had to die to get back there but that was eventually fixed, much later players got the ability store a second one accessible with spells.Traversal of the great seemless world could be accomplished the same way as going inside/outside of dungeons - portals.
In some areas there would be loops of quickly accessible portals to use like a transit system through the towns.
Others would send the player to far off areas without a return.
Players could save two of these with magic and summon them for themselves and others so that players could get back to that very far away place instantly, and bring friends.
More and more special portal spells were added to the game over time giving the player instant access to special areas, usually islands added onto the game in patches.The addition of landscape housing made traveling anywhere in this gigantic game easy.
Near towns there would be portals to a dozen settlements of housing, Now 90\% of the mainland in the game was accessible in less than 5 minutes.AC had a large unique sandbox world to explore and did not force the player to spend hours running if they did not want to.
It was the todays "next generation mmo" in many ways but released in 1999.
Oh and players ran really fast!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28524297</id>
	<title>Boring indeed...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246297260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was played WOW and hated the transportation aspect of it... I came from playing Ultima Online where I had books full of interesting locations I could visit at a whim.  The world was small in comparison to WoW.. But you know what?  I still love going on it once in a while and visiting some of those old spots.  The world is pretty empty now, but sometimes I pop in and see an old friend that recognizes me and we chat about old times.  I can sit and make armor, weapons or whatever new items that have been added since the last time I was in game.  The game is amazing because you have time to socialize, meet with others, open gates for them even when you can be halfway around the world.  Transportation in that game was a link to your friends not a burden that got in your way of meeting your friends and doing stuff.  WoW, DAoC, FFXI made that all abundantly clear, transportation was a way to screw everyone and make timesinks.  Since so many people had figured out how to macro their way up in levels, the new way to slow progress was through large maps, slow movement and expensive upgrades on vehicles/transportation.</p><p>I left WoW a happy camper, and have not looked back.  Yet I still visit good old Ultima Online once in a while<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)  Teleportation and Gates FTW!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was played WOW and hated the transportation aspect of it... I came from playing Ultima Online where I had books full of interesting locations I could visit at a whim .
The world was small in comparison to WoW.. But you know what ?
I still love going on it once in a while and visiting some of those old spots .
The world is pretty empty now , but sometimes I pop in and see an old friend that recognizes me and we chat about old times .
I can sit and make armor , weapons or whatever new items that have been added since the last time I was in game .
The game is amazing because you have time to socialize , meet with others , open gates for them even when you can be halfway around the world .
Transportation in that game was a link to your friends not a burden that got in your way of meeting your friends and doing stuff .
WoW , DAoC , FFXI made that all abundantly clear , transportation was a way to screw everyone and make timesinks .
Since so many people had figured out how to macro their way up in levels , the new way to slow progress was through large maps , slow movement and expensive upgrades on vehicles/transportation.I left WoW a happy camper , and have not looked back .
Yet I still visit good old Ultima Online once in a while : ) Teleportation and Gates FTW ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was played WOW and hated the transportation aspect of it... I came from playing Ultima Online where I had books full of interesting locations I could visit at a whim.
The world was small in comparison to WoW.. But you know what?
I still love going on it once in a while and visiting some of those old spots.
The world is pretty empty now, but sometimes I pop in and see an old friend that recognizes me and we chat about old times.
I can sit and make armor, weapons or whatever new items that have been added since the last time I was in game.
The game is amazing because you have time to socialize, meet with others, open gates for them even when you can be halfway around the world.
Transportation in that game was a link to your friends not a burden that got in your way of meeting your friends and doing stuff.
WoW, DAoC, FFXI made that all abundantly clear, transportation was a way to screw everyone and make timesinks.
Since so many people had figured out how to macro their way up in levels, the new way to slow progress was through large maps, slow movement and expensive upgrades on vehicles/transportation.I left WoW a happy camper, and have not looked back.
Yet I still visit good old Ultima Online once in a while :)  Teleportation and Gates FTW!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507373</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Jared555</author>
	<datestamp>1246186980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another benefit (although probably not intentional) is if you have more people in the middle of nowhere away from each other you are most likely using less bandwidth, etc. because you don't have to send everyone information about a hundred other individuals (or more in some games in popular locations)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another benefit ( although probably not intentional ) is if you have more people in the middle of nowhere away from each other you are most likely using less bandwidth , etc .
because you do n't have to send everyone information about a hundred other individuals ( or more in some games in popular locations )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another benefit (although probably not intentional) is if you have more people in the middle of nowhere away from each other you are most likely using less bandwidth, etc.
because you don't have to send everyone information about a hundred other individuals (or more in some games in popular locations)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502495</id>
	<title>Yeah</title>
	<author>ShakaUVM</author>
	<datestamp>1246190820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After playing a little bit of WoW again after Lich King came out, yeah, it was amazingly tedious after having played AoC and WAR. EVE is the only game with more tedious travel, but the concept of trading off cargo space over time is one of the primary mechanics that drives the economy. Different regions produce different things (like Electrical Engineering datacores) which someone needs to ship to the final destination, unless buyers want to fly over to the place themselves. But they're usually willing to pay a markup on them to avoid having to spend half an hour of real life time flying out and back.</p><p>WoW didn't have linked flight paths when it came out, which meant that if you were flying a long distance, not only was it incredibly tedious, but you also couldn't get up to go grab a sandwich or something. It was actually the main reason I played a mage in the game - they could teleport to different cities, which did a lot to eliminate the hated tedium of travel in the game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After playing a little bit of WoW again after Lich King came out , yeah , it was amazingly tedious after having played AoC and WAR .
EVE is the only game with more tedious travel , but the concept of trading off cargo space over time is one of the primary mechanics that drives the economy .
Different regions produce different things ( like Electrical Engineering datacores ) which someone needs to ship to the final destination , unless buyers want to fly over to the place themselves .
But they 're usually willing to pay a markup on them to avoid having to spend half an hour of real life time flying out and back.WoW did n't have linked flight paths when it came out , which meant that if you were flying a long distance , not only was it incredibly tedious , but you also could n't get up to go grab a sandwich or something .
It was actually the main reason I played a mage in the game - they could teleport to different cities , which did a lot to eliminate the hated tedium of travel in the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After playing a little bit of WoW again after Lich King came out, yeah, it was amazingly tedious after having played AoC and WAR.
EVE is the only game with more tedious travel, but the concept of trading off cargo space over time is one of the primary mechanics that drives the economy.
Different regions produce different things (like Electrical Engineering datacores) which someone needs to ship to the final destination, unless buyers want to fly over to the place themselves.
But they're usually willing to pay a markup on them to avoid having to spend half an hour of real life time flying out and back.WoW didn't have linked flight paths when it came out, which meant that if you were flying a long distance, not only was it incredibly tedious, but you also couldn't get up to go grab a sandwich or something.
It was actually the main reason I played a mage in the game - they could teleport to different cities, which did a lot to eliminate the hated tedium of travel in the game.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28509755</id>
	<title>Re:No, the technical term is "Dead Time"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246209420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>to a \_WOW\_ developer, the technical \_term\_ is MILLIONS \_of\_ DOLLARS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>to a \ _WOW \ _ developer , the technical \ _term \ _ is MILLIONS \ _of \ _ DOLLARS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to a \_WOW\_ developer, the technical \_term\_ is MILLIONS \_of\_ DOLLARS</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28517709</id>
	<title>Not "MMOs", just "crappy MMOs"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246305300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try City of Villains (or, to a lesser extent, City of Heroes)</p><p>Travel powers by level 10 (day 3 of playing, tops) and convenient inter-zone travel augmented by multiple teleport powers that speed things up even further.</p><p>I get upset if I have to spend more than about 3 minutes to travel ANYWHERE in the game.  Seriously.</p><p>WoW is work.  City of Villains is FUN.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try City of Villains ( or , to a lesser extent , City of Heroes ) Travel powers by level 10 ( day 3 of playing , tops ) and convenient inter-zone travel augmented by multiple teleport powers that speed things up even further.I get upset if I have to spend more than about 3 minutes to travel ANYWHERE in the game .
Seriously.WoW is work .
City of Villains is FUN .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try City of Villains (or, to a lesser extent, City of Heroes)Travel powers by level 10 (day 3 of playing, tops) and convenient inter-zone travel augmented by multiple teleport powers that speed things up even further.I get upset if I have to spend more than about 3 minutes to travel ANYWHERE in the game.
Seriously.WoW is work.
City of Villains is FUN.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>zwei2stein</author>
	<datestamp>1246190460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, they use it because it introduces massive downtime that is easy to justify as you can get some players even believe it is for their own good.</p><p>MMO 101: Downtime and timesinks are good thing for business. It means you get away with having less actual content while players take longer to do something, making sure they will be around in next month.</p><p>I have been playing instant teleport-anywhere game (Guild Wars) and frankly it is single most awesome thing. Worls still feels big in parts where cotnent is and small where player runs out of it. Just like in WoW: Areas which you outlevel just shrink in your head. By time you are done with walking on feet, you are indeed done and any travel-related downtime is pointless and punishing.</p><p>Game would not be bigger if i had to spend 30 minutes getting to some location "for your own good". It would be oxonobiously anoying.</p><p>Ive actually quit WoW over lack of instant movement. Waiting 30 minutes for group to ssemble is not fun, neither well spent time. When you spend more time afking game and reding book while you wait for someone than playing, something is very wrong<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , they use it because it introduces massive downtime that is easy to justify as you can get some players even believe it is for their own good.MMO 101 : Downtime and timesinks are good thing for business .
It means you get away with having less actual content while players take longer to do something , making sure they will be around in next month.I have been playing instant teleport-anywhere game ( Guild Wars ) and frankly it is single most awesome thing .
Worls still feels big in parts where cotnent is and small where player runs out of it .
Just like in WoW : Areas which you outlevel just shrink in your head .
By time you are done with walking on feet , you are indeed done and any travel-related downtime is pointless and punishing.Game would not be bigger if i had to spend 30 minutes getting to some location " for your own good " .
It would be oxonobiously anoying.Ive actually quit WoW over lack of instant movement .
Waiting 30 minutes for group to ssemble is not fun , neither well spent time .
When you spend more time afking game and reding book while you wait for someone than playing , something is very wrong .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, they use it because it introduces massive downtime that is easy to justify as you can get some players even believe it is for their own good.MMO 101: Downtime and timesinks are good thing for business.
It means you get away with having less actual content while players take longer to do something, making sure they will be around in next month.I have been playing instant teleport-anywhere game (Guild Wars) and frankly it is single most awesome thing.
Worls still feels big in parts where cotnent is and small where player runs out of it.
Just like in WoW: Areas which you outlevel just shrink in your head.
By time you are done with walking on feet, you are indeed done and any travel-related downtime is pointless and punishing.Game would not be bigger if i had to spend 30 minutes getting to some location "for your own good".
It would be oxonobiously anoying.Ive actually quit WoW over lack of instant movement.
Waiting 30 minutes for group to ssemble is not fun, neither well spent time.
When you spend more time afking game and reding book while you wait for someone than playing, something is very wrong ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503285</id>
	<title>As my friends are fond of saying...</title>
	<author>fullfactorial</author>
	<datestamp>1246200000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Running is gameplay.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Running is gameplay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Running is gameplay.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502435</id>
	<title>Codswallop</title>
	<author>Thundarr Trollgrim</author>
	<datestamp>1246190160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everquest one was mostly ruined when they included instant portal stones in the Plane of Knowledge.</p><p>WoW lost most of its charm when flying mounts were introduced. Imagine how epic Northrend could have been if there was actually some danger involved traversing the Lich King's lair, rather than flying over it all unmolested.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everquest one was mostly ruined when they included instant portal stones in the Plane of Knowledge.WoW lost most of its charm when flying mounts were introduced .
Imagine how epic Northrend could have been if there was actually some danger involved traversing the Lich King 's lair , rather than flying over it all unmolested .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everquest one was mostly ruined when they included instant portal stones in the Plane of Knowledge.WoW lost most of its charm when flying mounts were introduced.
Imagine how epic Northrend could have been if there was actually some danger involved traversing the Lich King's lair, rather than flying over it all unmolested.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28514899</id>
	<title>Re:Because of overcrowding</title>
	<author>vivian</author>
	<datestamp>1246294320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you hit the nail exactly on the head.<br>The amount of network traffic needed by n number of players in the same area goes up at a squared rate ie. on average, if you have 10 people that are all able to see each other, the servers have to send out 10 movement messages (one to each player) for every player that moves.<br>so if every player does something once a second, this is 10x10 messages per second if there are 10 nearby players.<br>if there are 20, it would be 20x20 = 400,</p><p>Imagine how much more traffic the server would have to deal with if you could get half of a realm's population turning up all at once in some location from wherever they were, when something interesting happens there suddenly? If there were 2000 people on the server, and half of them all suddenly decided there was something cool going on at point X, first the server would have to tell anyone in the immediate region where you were teleporting from that you had vanished.<br>Then there would be a massive amount of updates for each player as they teleport to the new region, because the player would have to get a complete set of info about all the other players in that area. Finally, the server would then have to be sending Next, the server would have to and would then have to be dishing out 1000 messages per person in the area, ie, 1000000 messages alltogether, every time everyone took a step or changed direction.</p><p>By having slower travel times, it means that at any given moment, a fairly large chunk of the world's population will be distributed in sparsely populated areas, so there are much fewer messages to send to nearby players as they move to their destinations, because each player would only be near say, 3 or 4 others - and often not near anyone at all.</p><p>Secondly, because it is a bit of a hastle to go somewhere, there is much less tendancy for as many people to suddenly congregate at a particular point when something happens there.</p><p>This is also a good reason to have cities or regions that are specialising in different things - if you can get everything you possibly need from one place, then this will also tend to make players bunch up in htat cities instead of going to different cities, and cause high load. This was done to a certain extent in UO, but I think WoW deals with the problem better with the taxis because it also gives you a chance to go grab a cup of coffee or a bio break and mabey actually wrench yourself away from your chair for a quick leg stretch while in transit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you hit the nail exactly on the head.The amount of network traffic needed by n number of players in the same area goes up at a squared rate ie .
on average , if you have 10 people that are all able to see each other , the servers have to send out 10 movement messages ( one to each player ) for every player that moves.so if every player does something once a second , this is 10x10 messages per second if there are 10 nearby players.if there are 20 , it would be 20x20 = 400,Imagine how much more traffic the server would have to deal with if you could get half of a realm 's population turning up all at once in some location from wherever they were , when something interesting happens there suddenly ?
If there were 2000 people on the server , and half of them all suddenly decided there was something cool going on at point X , first the server would have to tell anyone in the immediate region where you were teleporting from that you had vanished.Then there would be a massive amount of updates for each player as they teleport to the new region , because the player would have to get a complete set of info about all the other players in that area .
Finally , the server would then have to be sending Next , the server would have to and would then have to be dishing out 1000 messages per person in the area , ie , 1000000 messages alltogether , every time everyone took a step or changed direction.By having slower travel times , it means that at any given moment , a fairly large chunk of the world 's population will be distributed in sparsely populated areas , so there are much fewer messages to send to nearby players as they move to their destinations , because each player would only be near say , 3 or 4 others - and often not near anyone at all.Secondly , because it is a bit of a hastle to go somewhere , there is much less tendancy for as many people to suddenly congregate at a particular point when something happens there.This is also a good reason to have cities or regions that are specialising in different things - if you can get everything you possibly need from one place , then this will also tend to make players bunch up in htat cities instead of going to different cities , and cause high load .
This was done to a certain extent in UO , but I think WoW deals with the problem better with the taxis because it also gives you a chance to go grab a cup of coffee or a bio break and mabey actually wrench yourself away from your chair for a quick leg stretch while in transit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you hit the nail exactly on the head.The amount of network traffic needed by n number of players in the same area goes up at a squared rate ie.
on average, if you have 10 people that are all able to see each other, the servers have to send out 10 movement messages (one to each player) for every player that moves.so if every player does something once a second, this is 10x10 messages per second if there are 10 nearby players.if there are 20, it would be 20x20 = 400,Imagine how much more traffic the server would have to deal with if you could get half of a realm's population turning up all at once in some location from wherever they were, when something interesting happens there suddenly?
If there were 2000 people on the server, and half of them all suddenly decided there was something cool going on at point X, first the server would have to tell anyone in the immediate region where you were teleporting from that you had vanished.Then there would be a massive amount of updates for each player as they teleport to the new region, because the player would have to get a complete set of info about all the other players in that area.
Finally, the server would then have to be sending Next, the server would have to and would then have to be dishing out 1000 messages per person in the area, ie, 1000000 messages alltogether, every time everyone took a step or changed direction.By having slower travel times, it means that at any given moment, a fairly large chunk of the world's population will be distributed in sparsely populated areas, so there are much fewer messages to send to nearby players as they move to their destinations, because each player would only be near say, 3 or 4 others - and often not near anyone at all.Secondly, because it is a bit of a hastle to go somewhere, there is much less tendancy for as many people to suddenly congregate at a particular point when something happens there.This is also a good reason to have cities or regions that are specialising in different things - if you can get everything you possibly need from one place, then this will also tend to make players bunch up in htat cities instead of going to different cities, and cause high load.
This was done to a certain extent in UO, but I think WoW deals with the problem better with the taxis because it also gives you a chance to go grab a cup of coffee or a bio break and mabey actually wrench yourself away from your chair for a quick leg stretch while in transit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507233</id>
	<title>Don't sit in front of your computer during travel?</title>
	<author>NeedleSurfer</author>
	<datestamp>1246186080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is what I do, taking a flight path, pressing the autorun button are ways I have to take a break, go empty the diswasher, grab a snack, go read something online, mandatory cuddle time with my GF (she plays too) during a play session, remove that and will be a endless gring more akin to work than play.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is what I do , taking a flight path , pressing the autorun button are ways I have to take a break , go empty the diswasher , grab a snack , go read something online , mandatory cuddle time with my GF ( she plays too ) during a play session , remove that and will be a endless gring more akin to work than play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is what I do, taking a flight path, pressing the autorun button are ways I have to take a break, go empty the diswasher, grab a snack, go read something online, mandatory cuddle time with my GF (she plays too) during a play session, remove that and will be a endless gring more akin to work than play.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502367</id>
	<title>Just..</title>
	<author>dov\_0</author>
	<datestamp>1246189260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Keeping it real... as real as a game like that could really be anyway...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Keeping it real... as real as a game like that could really be anyway.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keeping it real... as real as a game like that could really be anyway...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502831</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>Xelios</author>
	<datestamp>1246195380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't see why. You pay monthly regardless of how long you spend in the game and what you do in it. If anything long, unnecessary travel times will tend to put people off of subscribing for another month.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see why .
You pay monthly regardless of how long you spend in the game and what you do in it .
If anything long , unnecessary travel times will tend to put people off of subscribing for another month .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see why.
You pay monthly regardless of how long you spend in the game and what you do in it.
If anything long, unnecessary travel times will tend to put people off of subscribing for another month.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503133</id>
	<title>Uhhh because it would allow you to cheat?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246198680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you've been somewhere before and can 'teleport' back quicker, and someone who hasn't been there before  must follow the path, it gives you a possibly unbeatable advantage.</p><p>Why don't you stop wining... if you are bored with travel, your MMOs world is too big.<br>What's you're looking for is called a "single player game". Try it sometime. They're all but dead but a far superior gaming experience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 've been somewhere before and can 'teleport ' back quicker , and someone who has n't been there before must follow the path , it gives you a possibly unbeatable advantage.Why do n't you stop wining... if you are bored with travel , your MMOs world is too big.What 's you 're looking for is called a " single player game " .
Try it sometime .
They 're all but dead but a far superior gaming experience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you've been somewhere before and can 'teleport' back quicker, and someone who hasn't been there before  must follow the path, it gives you a possibly unbeatable advantage.Why don't you stop wining... if you are bored with travel, your MMOs world is too big.What's you're looking for is called a "single player game".
Try it sometime.
They're all but dead but a far superior gaming experience.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503911</id>
	<title>Re:Automated transportation</title>
	<author>TCM</author>
	<datestamp>1246205220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A better alternative would be automated transportation.</p></div><p> You mean like WoW flight points?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>However, since games like world of warcraft are strongly against bots of any kind, it's not likely to come.</p></div><p> I'm confused.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A better alternative would be automated transportation .
You mean like WoW flight points ? However , since games like world of warcraft are strongly against bots of any kind , it 's not likely to come .
I 'm confused .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A better alternative would be automated transportation.
You mean like WoW flight points?However, since games like world of warcraft are strongly against bots of any kind, it's not likely to come.
I'm confused.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502531</id>
	<title>Re:Or, the alternative...</title>
	<author>Burnhard</author>
	<datestamp>1246191360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Good god, about 50\% of Eve's tedium is travelling.  I thought Fallout 3 had it right; once you've discovered a location, you can insta-jump to it from the map.  If MMO's did this too, then you'd get the best of both worlds (1) you still have to explore to find locations, (2) once you've found them, you don't have the chore of going back there at a later date.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good god , about 50 \ % of Eve 's tedium is travelling .
I thought Fallout 3 had it right ; once you 've discovered a location , you can insta-jump to it from the map .
If MMO 's did this too , then you 'd get the best of both worlds ( 1 ) you still have to explore to find locations , ( 2 ) once you 've found them , you do n't have the chore of going back there at a later date .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good god, about 50\% of Eve's tedium is travelling.
I thought Fallout 3 had it right; once you've discovered a location, you can insta-jump to it from the map.
If MMO's did this too, then you'd get the best of both worlds (1) you still have to explore to find locations, (2) once you've found them, you don't have the chore of going back there at a later date.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504717</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>ildon</author>
	<datestamp>1246210740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Minor nit pick: Raids have had meeting stones since at least early TBC.</p><p>I will also support the number one reason it takes forever to get people together for a dungeon or raid in WoW is that the majority of the people are simply inconsiderate, and not because of any kind of difficulty traveling in-game. They will keep doing their own thing until the absolute last second when they expect everyone else to summon them to the dungeon. Occasionally while leveling up, if I'm not playing with a guild mate or friend, I will be at the meeting stone in less than 5 minutes, then have to wait up to 15 for one of the other 4 idiots to realize they're not going to get summoned unless at least one of them joins me at the entrance.</p><p>Additionally, the next patch (3.2) is going to decrease the price of almost every mount, set the speed of the "slow" flying mount to 150\% increase instead of 60\% increase, set the level flying mounts can be obtained to 60 (it's currently 70), and lower the initial level for the slow ground mount to 20 and the fast ground mount to 40.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Minor nit pick : Raids have had meeting stones since at least early TBC.I will also support the number one reason it takes forever to get people together for a dungeon or raid in WoW is that the majority of the people are simply inconsiderate , and not because of any kind of difficulty traveling in-game .
They will keep doing their own thing until the absolute last second when they expect everyone else to summon them to the dungeon .
Occasionally while leveling up , if I 'm not playing with a guild mate or friend , I will be at the meeting stone in less than 5 minutes , then have to wait up to 15 for one of the other 4 idiots to realize they 're not going to get summoned unless at least one of them joins me at the entrance.Additionally , the next patch ( 3.2 ) is going to decrease the price of almost every mount , set the speed of the " slow " flying mount to 150 \ % increase instead of 60 \ % increase , set the level flying mounts can be obtained to 60 ( it 's currently 70 ) , and lower the initial level for the slow ground mount to 20 and the fast ground mount to 40 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Minor nit pick: Raids have had meeting stones since at least early TBC.I will also support the number one reason it takes forever to get people together for a dungeon or raid in WoW is that the majority of the people are simply inconsiderate, and not because of any kind of difficulty traveling in-game.
They will keep doing their own thing until the absolute last second when they expect everyone else to summon them to the dungeon.
Occasionally while leveling up, if I'm not playing with a guild mate or friend, I will be at the meeting stone in less than 5 minutes, then have to wait up to 15 for one of the other 4 idiots to realize they're not going to get summoned unless at least one of them joins me at the entrance.Additionally, the next patch (3.2) is going to decrease the price of almost every mount, set the speed of the "slow" flying mount to 150\% increase instead of 60\% increase, set the level flying mounts can be obtained to 60 (it's currently 70), and lower the initial level for the slow ground mount to 20 and the fast ground mount to 40.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503191</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505093</id>
	<title>Guild Wars vs. EVE Online</title>
	<author>GospelHead821</author>
	<datestamp>1246213200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Guild Wars allows instantaneous travel to any location in the gameworld that you've already visited.  EVE Online does not.  This is fine because in Guild Wars, the game revolves around the adventure.  It's okay for players to be hopping around quickly because the designers want the players collaborating on missions and quests, not walking.  EVE Online, on the other hand, features an economy.  With instantaneous travel, you lose arbitrage, piracy, shiping companies, etc. and key aspects of the economy cease to exist.  I don't know about WoW, where it may be arbitrary, but in the two MMO's with which I have any experience, the decision to or to not allow instantaneous travel seems appropriate for the gameplay model.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Guild Wars allows instantaneous travel to any location in the gameworld that you 've already visited .
EVE Online does not .
This is fine because in Guild Wars , the game revolves around the adventure .
It 's okay for players to be hopping around quickly because the designers want the players collaborating on missions and quests , not walking .
EVE Online , on the other hand , features an economy .
With instantaneous travel , you lose arbitrage , piracy , shiping companies , etc .
and key aspects of the economy cease to exist .
I do n't know about WoW , where it may be arbitrary , but in the two MMO 's with which I have any experience , the decision to or to not allow instantaneous travel seems appropriate for the gameplay model .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Guild Wars allows instantaneous travel to any location in the gameworld that you've already visited.
EVE Online does not.
This is fine because in Guild Wars, the game revolves around the adventure.
It's okay for players to be hopping around quickly because the designers want the players collaborating on missions and quests, not walking.
EVE Online, on the other hand, features an economy.
With instantaneous travel, you lose arbitrage, piracy, shiping companies, etc.
and key aspects of the economy cease to exist.
I don't know about WoW, where it may be arbitrary, but in the two MMO's with which I have any experience, the decision to or to not allow instantaneous travel seems appropriate for the gameplay model.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507207</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246185840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>True man. I quit WOW from the same reason of the annoying traveling "lag". How can Blizzard think than spending 7min or so "traveling" to a location as fun ? The "best part" is that after WOTLK it is extremely hard for casual playing (nobody doing instances anymore, so only the hardcore raiding ppl are online). So imagine that after you travel for 10min to a location the group disbands because the tank you found for the group after 2 hours has to leave for the guild raid<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) Blizz my money will have a very very long travel time to your accounts<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True man .
I quit WOW from the same reason of the annoying traveling " lag " .
How can Blizzard think than spending 7min or so " traveling " to a location as fun ?
The " best part " is that after WOTLK it is extremely hard for casual playing ( nobody doing instances anymore , so only the hardcore raiding ppl are online ) .
So imagine that after you travel for 10min to a location the group disbands because the tank you found for the group after 2 hours has to leave for the guild raid : ) Blizz my money will have a very very long travel time to your accounts : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True man.
I quit WOW from the same reason of the annoying traveling "lag".
How can Blizzard think than spending 7min or so "traveling" to a location as fun ?
The "best part" is that after WOTLK it is extremely hard for casual playing (nobody doing instances anymore, so only the hardcore raiding ppl are online).
So imagine that after you travel for 10min to a location the group disbands because the tank you found for the group after 2 hours has to leave for the guild raid :) Blizz my money will have a very very long travel time to your accounts :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28512701</id>
	<title>Why is this a problem for mmo's only?</title>
	<author>MistrBlank</author>
	<datestamp>1246282620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, why is this a problem in general?</p><p>Should Mario just start at the stairs at the end of the level?  Should Grand Theft Auto eliminate the driving aspect and take you to the site of the job?</p><p>No.  It it is a level of immersion and I get sick and tired of people complaining they can't get from point a to point b instantly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , why is this a problem in general ? Should Mario just start at the stairs at the end of the level ?
Should Grand Theft Auto eliminate the driving aspect and take you to the site of the job ? No .
It it is a level of immersion and I get sick and tired of people complaining they ca n't get from point a to point b instantly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, why is this a problem in general?Should Mario just start at the stairs at the end of the level?
Should Grand Theft Auto eliminate the driving aspect and take you to the site of the job?No.
It it is a level of immersion and I get sick and tired of people complaining they can't get from point a to point b instantly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503349</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246200540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also at the same time though, all that time spent traveling means battles, which means gaining XP, which then allows players to do more stuff....to me it's all circular.  Plus, Morrowind was the same way where you had to run everywhere, and often that meant a lot of time invested there.  Throw in a monthly fee and ka-ching.  To me it's a catch-22 where it would appease some and enrage others.  I dunno.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also at the same time though , all that time spent traveling means battles , which means gaining XP , which then allows players to do more stuff....to me it 's all circular .
Plus , Morrowind was the same way where you had to run everywhere , and often that meant a lot of time invested there .
Throw in a monthly fee and ka-ching .
To me it 's a catch-22 where it would appease some and enrage others .
I dunno .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also at the same time though, all that time spent traveling means battles, which means gaining XP, which then allows players to do more stuff....to me it's all circular.
Plus, Morrowind was the same way where you had to run everywhere, and often that meant a lot of time invested there.
Throw in a monthly fee and ka-ching.
To me it's a catch-22 where it would appease some and enrage others.
I dunno.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502711</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246193700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you allow teleporting from anywhere to anywhere it doesn't matter how big you make your world, because to everyone it will feel small.</p></div><p>That's my personal gripe with overly easy transportation in MMOs.  The best example I have is Everquest, when they introduced the Plane of Knowledge - suddenly everyone had access to instantaneous transportation to places all over the world, granting undreamed of ease of movement<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and changing what had been a large, sprawling world into something that felt relatively small, a series of arbitrary locales rather than cohesive continents and islands.
<br> <br>
PoK fundamentally changed things, and really taught me the value of travel-that-takes-time.  It's one of the many parts of an MMO where 'listening to the players' will yield a bad game, in that players (people, really) often want things that will ultimately undercut the enjoyment/value of their experience.
<br> <br>
That's not to say that there's no such thing as excessive travel time - taking 3 hours to get from Newbieville to Hunting\_Grounds\_of\_the\_Newbies is a problem.  The sweet spot is in the middle somewhere, and my point is simply that non-trivial travel is important, and that the sweet spot is likely higher (more travel) than most people seek or would ask for.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you allow teleporting from anywhere to anywhere it does n't matter how big you make your world , because to everyone it will feel small.That 's my personal gripe with overly easy transportation in MMOs .
The best example I have is Everquest , when they introduced the Plane of Knowledge - suddenly everyone had access to instantaneous transportation to places all over the world , granting undreamed of ease of movement ... and changing what had been a large , sprawling world into something that felt relatively small , a series of arbitrary locales rather than cohesive continents and islands .
PoK fundamentally changed things , and really taught me the value of travel-that-takes-time .
It 's one of the many parts of an MMO where 'listening to the players ' will yield a bad game , in that players ( people , really ) often want things that will ultimately undercut the enjoyment/value of their experience .
That 's not to say that there 's no such thing as excessive travel time - taking 3 hours to get from Newbieville to Hunting \ _Grounds \ _of \ _the \ _Newbies is a problem .
The sweet spot is in the middle somewhere , and my point is simply that non-trivial travel is important , and that the sweet spot is likely higher ( more travel ) than most people seek or would ask for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you allow teleporting from anywhere to anywhere it doesn't matter how big you make your world, because to everyone it will feel small.That's my personal gripe with overly easy transportation in MMOs.
The best example I have is Everquest, when they introduced the Plane of Knowledge - suddenly everyone had access to instantaneous transportation to places all over the world, granting undreamed of ease of movement ... and changing what had been a large, sprawling world into something that felt relatively small, a series of arbitrary locales rather than cohesive continents and islands.
PoK fundamentally changed things, and really taught me the value of travel-that-takes-time.
It's one of the many parts of an MMO where 'listening to the players' will yield a bad game, in that players (people, really) often want things that will ultimately undercut the enjoyment/value of their experience.
That's not to say that there's no such thing as excessive travel time - taking 3 hours to get from Newbieville to Hunting\_Grounds\_of\_the\_Newbies is a problem.
The sweet spot is in the middle somewhere, and my point is simply that non-trivial travel is important, and that the sweet spot is likely higher (more travel) than most people seek or would ask for.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506279</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>nacturation</author>
	<datestamp>1246221000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's why I play Progress Quest: <a href="http://progressquest.com/" title="progressquest.com">http://progressquest.com/</a> [progressquest.com]</p><p>All of the leveling, none of the tedium!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's why I play Progress Quest : http : //progressquest.com/ [ progressquest.com ] All of the leveling , none of the tedium !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's why I play Progress Quest: http://progressquest.com/ [progressquest.com]All of the leveling, none of the tedium!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504223</id>
	<title>World PVP Dooms Warcraft to Slow</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246207680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In City of Heroes, it's very quick to get from zone to zone and many characters can summon individuals or the whole team to them from anyhwhere in the zone.  The PVP is only in certain PVP zones.  And movement speeds are enhanced as early as level 6, with the full travel powers available at level 14.</p><p>On the other hand, in World of Warcrack, where many servers are all-PVP all the time, it's vitally important to not have everyone who cares able to show up within seconds.  That totally removes the element of maneuver from the PVP game, and it's down to how many Horde are logged in vs. how many Alliance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In City of Heroes , it 's very quick to get from zone to zone and many characters can summon individuals or the whole team to them from anyhwhere in the zone .
The PVP is only in certain PVP zones .
And movement speeds are enhanced as early as level 6 , with the full travel powers available at level 14.On the other hand , in World of Warcrack , where many servers are all-PVP all the time , it 's vitally important to not have everyone who cares able to show up within seconds .
That totally removes the element of maneuver from the PVP game , and it 's down to how many Horde are logged in vs. how many Alliance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In City of Heroes, it's very quick to get from zone to zone and many characters can summon individuals or the whole team to them from anyhwhere in the zone.
The PVP is only in certain PVP zones.
And movement speeds are enhanced as early as level 6, with the full travel powers available at level 14.On the other hand, in World of Warcrack, where many servers are all-PVP all the time, it's vitally important to not have everyone who cares able to show up within seconds.
That totally removes the element of maneuver from the PVP game, and it's down to how many Horde are logged in vs. how many Alliance.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502735</id>
	<title>Based on the posts so far...</title>
	<author>johnlcallaway</author>
	<datestamp>1246194000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think the answer is that some games don't provide instant transportation because some people like it that way and others don't. As long as the trip provides some reward, such as experience points or items, I don't mind it. Obviously from the earlier comments, some people do.
<br> <br>
It's called competition and is how a free market works.  If a product is truly the best, everyone will flock to it.  But if product A and B provide  the same basic product but work a little different, they will attract different consumers. If a product can remain in business, they have succeeded in their enterprise.
<br> <br>
Being number one in a market isn't necessarily the best place to be. Having the best return on your money is the best place to be, and a product doesn't have to be number one to do that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the answer is that some games do n't provide instant transportation because some people like it that way and others do n't .
As long as the trip provides some reward , such as experience points or items , I do n't mind it .
Obviously from the earlier comments , some people do .
It 's called competition and is how a free market works .
If a product is truly the best , everyone will flock to it .
But if product A and B provide the same basic product but work a little different , they will attract different consumers .
If a product can remain in business , they have succeeded in their enterprise .
Being number one in a market is n't necessarily the best place to be .
Having the best return on your money is the best place to be , and a product does n't have to be number one to do that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the answer is that some games don't provide instant transportation because some people like it that way and others don't.
As long as the trip provides some reward, such as experience points or items, I don't mind it.
Obviously from the earlier comments, some people do.
It's called competition and is how a free market works.
If a product is truly the best, everyone will flock to it.
But if product A and B provide  the same basic product but work a little different, they will attract different consumers.
If a product can remain in business, they have succeeded in their enterprise.
Being number one in a market isn't necessarily the best place to be.
Having the best return on your money is the best place to be, and a product doesn't have to be number one to do that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505031</id>
	<title>Re:Because of overcrowding</title>
	<author>bertoelcon</author>
	<datestamp>1246212720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Reminds me of what Shat was like and what Dalaran is like in WoW now, giant laggy hotspots due to accessibility to other places.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Reminds me of what Shat was like and what Dalaran is like in WoW now , giant laggy hotspots due to accessibility to other places .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reminds me of what Shat was like and what Dalaran is like in WoW now, giant laggy hotspots due to accessibility to other places.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28508023</id>
	<title>Just Mark a Rune Stone</title>
	<author>hofmny</author>
	<datestamp>1246192500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is why I loved Ultima Online so much, and refuse to play any MMORPG since UO. UO gave the player so much freedom, including being able to mark rune stones (I think that is what they were called) at any point in the world. You could then cast the recall spell on the stone and you would appear back in the same spot where you put the mark on the stone. In the early days, this caused some hilarious problems, whereas a player would mark a rune stone on a open field, someone would build a house on it, and then you could recall into their house and steal their stuff. LOLZ.
<br> <br>
But this teleportation made the game so much more fun. If a friend signed on and was somewhere in the World and wanted to party up with you, you probably had a stone for near the location where he was at, or if he was a higher level mage, could open a portal for you. Also, if you go out and explore and find a really cool thing (such as when you could buy a boat and sail the high seas and find an island) -- you could mark it and return there later, without having to go through the whole ridiculousness of the said journey again that is no longer fun (why do you think console RPG's lose MAJOR points on backtracking)? That said, there is something cool about not being able to easily get back to a really rare but cool place, but there has to be a balance.
<br> <br>
One thing I find lacking in modern MMO's in the realistic representation of death. UO actually allowed you to kill people, and loot their corpse. None of this , you die but magically keep all your stuff. That is so lame. Just my opinion, but I cannot stand WOW. To me its so watered down and lame (no offense to WOW players). I would just love to see another UO type RPG. I am surprised no one has made one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is why I loved Ultima Online so much , and refuse to play any MMORPG since UO .
UO gave the player so much freedom , including being able to mark rune stones ( I think that is what they were called ) at any point in the world .
You could then cast the recall spell on the stone and you would appear back in the same spot where you put the mark on the stone .
In the early days , this caused some hilarious problems , whereas a player would mark a rune stone on a open field , someone would build a house on it , and then you could recall into their house and steal their stuff .
LOLZ . But this teleportation made the game so much more fun .
If a friend signed on and was somewhere in the World and wanted to party up with you , you probably had a stone for near the location where he was at , or if he was a higher level mage , could open a portal for you .
Also , if you go out and explore and find a really cool thing ( such as when you could buy a boat and sail the high seas and find an island ) -- you could mark it and return there later , without having to go through the whole ridiculousness of the said journey again that is no longer fun ( why do you think console RPG 's lose MAJOR points on backtracking ) ?
That said , there is something cool about not being able to easily get back to a really rare but cool place , but there has to be a balance .
One thing I find lacking in modern MMO 's in the realistic representation of death .
UO actually allowed you to kill people , and loot their corpse .
None of this , you die but magically keep all your stuff .
That is so lame .
Just my opinion , but I can not stand WOW .
To me its so watered down and lame ( no offense to WOW players ) .
I would just love to see another UO type RPG .
I am surprised no one has made one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is why I loved Ultima Online so much, and refuse to play any MMORPG since UO.
UO gave the player so much freedom, including being able to mark rune stones (I think that is what they were called) at any point in the world.
You could then cast the recall spell on the stone and you would appear back in the same spot where you put the mark on the stone.
In the early days, this caused some hilarious problems, whereas a player would mark a rune stone on a open field, someone would build a house on it, and then you could recall into their house and steal their stuff.
LOLZ.
 
But this teleportation made the game so much more fun.
If a friend signed on and was somewhere in the World and wanted to party up with you, you probably had a stone for near the location where he was at, or if he was a higher level mage, could open a portal for you.
Also, if you go out and explore and find a really cool thing (such as when you could buy a boat and sail the high seas and find an island) -- you could mark it and return there later, without having to go through the whole ridiculousness of the said journey again that is no longer fun (why do you think console RPG's lose MAJOR points on backtracking)?
That said, there is something cool about not being able to easily get back to a really rare but cool place, but there has to be a balance.
One thing I find lacking in modern MMO's in the realistic representation of death.
UO actually allowed you to kill people, and loot their corpse.
None of this , you die but magically keep all your stuff.
That is so lame.
Just my opinion, but I cannot stand WOW.
To me its so watered down and lame (no offense to WOW players).
I would just love to see another UO type RPG.
I am surprised no one has made one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502481</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>mh1997</author>
	<datestamp>1246190700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>At what point does moving from one location to another become a chore?</p></div></blockquote><p>
About 8 seconds after starting the game.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>At what point does moving from one location to another become a chore ?
About 8 seconds after starting the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At what point does moving from one location to another become a chore?
About 8 seconds after starting the game.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28517179</id>
	<title>Re:Try City of Heroes</title>
	<author>rsw</author>
	<datestamp>1246303320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There's also Super Jumping, Super Speed, and Teleportation, in increasing order of speed and difficulty to use.</p></div><p>
Don't forget the powerset (Kinetics Defender) that allows you to grant other people super speed and super jump, and gives the toon Siphon Speed by level 5ish.  And of course, there's the utility power in the Teleport powerset that lets you teleport your allies to you!  (This is extremely useful for helping low-level characters, when travelling through gigantic zones like the Shadow Shard, or for positioning the group during dangerous missions).
<br> <br>
My kin/psy defender was my favorite toon by far.  Ahh, to go back to the i4 days with no targeting limits just for a few Fulcrum Shift / Psy Wails.  Brings a tear to the eye.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's also Super Jumping , Super Speed , and Teleportation , in increasing order of speed and difficulty to use .
Do n't forget the powerset ( Kinetics Defender ) that allows you to grant other people super speed and super jump , and gives the toon Siphon Speed by level 5ish .
And of course , there 's the utility power in the Teleport powerset that lets you teleport your allies to you !
( This is extremely useful for helping low-level characters , when travelling through gigantic zones like the Shadow Shard , or for positioning the group during dangerous missions ) .
My kin/psy defender was my favorite toon by far .
Ahh , to go back to the i4 days with no targeting limits just for a few Fulcrum Shift / Psy Wails .
Brings a tear to the eye .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's also Super Jumping, Super Speed, and Teleportation, in increasing order of speed and difficulty to use.
Don't forget the powerset (Kinetics Defender) that allows you to grant other people super speed and super jump, and gives the toon Siphon Speed by level 5ish.
And of course, there's the utility power in the Teleport powerset that lets you teleport your allies to you!
(This is extremely useful for helping low-level characters, when travelling through gigantic zones like the Shadow Shard, or for positioning the group during dangerous missions).
My kin/psy defender was my favorite toon by far.
Ahh, to go back to the i4 days with no targeting limits just for a few Fulcrum Shift / Psy Wails.
Brings a tear to the eye.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502837</id>
	<title>Re:Or, the alternative...</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1246195500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Insta-jumping in EvE would kill the game for most people. First and foremost, it would allow the top builders to corner the market. Much like it is in other games. Part of your revenue as a builder stems from the fact that you have to buy your goods where you need them (or have them transported there) because there is no simple mechanism of FedExing goods. You can even make a dime by offering that "postal" service.</p><p>Then there is shortages. Large battles tend to swallow resources, and those resources have to be regenerated. Usually making them in battle zones is dangerous, so people tend to ferry them in. Which creates another aspect of the game, gate campers that wait for traveling merchants. Not being able to instabuy them elsewhere and transport them adds an interesting logistics portion to the game.</p><p>Besides, you can already instajump once per day, using jumpclones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Insta-jumping in EvE would kill the game for most people .
First and foremost , it would allow the top builders to corner the market .
Much like it is in other games .
Part of your revenue as a builder stems from the fact that you have to buy your goods where you need them ( or have them transported there ) because there is no simple mechanism of FedExing goods .
You can even make a dime by offering that " postal " service.Then there is shortages .
Large battles tend to swallow resources , and those resources have to be regenerated .
Usually making them in battle zones is dangerous , so people tend to ferry them in .
Which creates another aspect of the game , gate campers that wait for traveling merchants .
Not being able to instabuy them elsewhere and transport them adds an interesting logistics portion to the game.Besides , you can already instajump once per day , using jumpclones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Insta-jumping in EvE would kill the game for most people.
First and foremost, it would allow the top builders to corner the market.
Much like it is in other games.
Part of your revenue as a builder stems from the fact that you have to buy your goods where you need them (or have them transported there) because there is no simple mechanism of FedExing goods.
You can even make a dime by offering that "postal" service.Then there is shortages.
Large battles tend to swallow resources, and those resources have to be regenerated.
Usually making them in battle zones is dangerous, so people tend to ferry them in.
Which creates another aspect of the game, gate campers that wait for traveling merchants.
Not being able to instabuy them elsewhere and transport them adds an interesting logistics portion to the game.Besides, you can already instajump once per day, using jumpclones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503369</id>
	<title>Slow Transportation is Good</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1246200660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>1) Economy - some games, like EVE, go out of their way to make travel difficult - there's even a cost to moving stuff around. This allows for very interesting realistic economies where some people can make their living by shuttling stuff from where it's cheap to where it's expensive.

2) Military - If everyone could instantly teleport anywhere, the weaker faction would never have a chance against a stronger one - everyone could instantly teleport in. With slow transport, hit-and-run tactics, ambushes, securing the city entrances first, and a whole host of other tactics could be introduced.

3) Realism - the feeling of having a large world. This one is mentioned a lot, but how can a remote area be remote if you can get there in 1 minute?</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) Economy - some games , like EVE , go out of their way to make travel difficult - there 's even a cost to moving stuff around .
This allows for very interesting realistic economies where some people can make their living by shuttling stuff from where it 's cheap to where it 's expensive .
2 ) Military - If everyone could instantly teleport anywhere , the weaker faction would never have a chance against a stronger one - everyone could instantly teleport in .
With slow transport , hit-and-run tactics , ambushes , securing the city entrances first , and a whole host of other tactics could be introduced .
3 ) Realism - the feeling of having a large world .
This one is mentioned a lot , but how can a remote area be remote if you can get there in 1 minute ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) Economy - some games, like EVE, go out of their way to make travel difficult - there's even a cost to moving stuff around.
This allows for very interesting realistic economies where some people can make their living by shuttling stuff from where it's cheap to where it's expensive.
2) Military - If everyone could instantly teleport anywhere, the weaker faction would never have a chance against a stronger one - everyone could instantly teleport in.
With slow transport, hit-and-run tactics, ambushes, securing the city entrances first, and a whole host of other tactics could be introduced.
3) Realism - the feeling of having a large world.
This one is mentioned a lot, but how can a remote area be remote if you can get there in 1 minute?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504063</id>
	<title>Re:Codswallop</title>
	<author>Teckla</author>
	<datestamp>1246206300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Everquest one was mostly ruined when they included instant portal stones in the Plane of Knowledge.</p></div><p>Agreed!</p><p>But it seems you and I are in the minority. Everyone wants instant gratification. If it takes them more than one minute to travel to the latest, greatest, hottest XP farming zone, they're annoyed.</p><p>Some of my fondest memories of original EverQuest were traveling. The world felt wonderfully big and scary. I met traveling companions (safety in numbers!), I discovered interesting places, and once at my destination, I would explore more carefully and in more detail, because after all, it took a while to get there!</p><p>Planes of Power destroyed all that. In an instant, Norrath morphed from an exciting, expansive world into a tiny little place. People were nothing but busy little bees, teleporting from XP grind to XP grind as fast as their little portal stones could take them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everquest one was mostly ruined when they included instant portal stones in the Plane of Knowledge.Agreed ! But it seems you and I are in the minority .
Everyone wants instant gratification .
If it takes them more than one minute to travel to the latest , greatest , hottest XP farming zone , they 're annoyed.Some of my fondest memories of original EverQuest were traveling .
The world felt wonderfully big and scary .
I met traveling companions ( safety in numbers !
) , I discovered interesting places , and once at my destination , I would explore more carefully and in more detail , because after all , it took a while to get there ! Planes of Power destroyed all that .
In an instant , Norrath morphed from an exciting , expansive world into a tiny little place .
People were nothing but busy little bees , teleporting from XP grind to XP grind as fast as their little portal stones could take them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everquest one was mostly ruined when they included instant portal stones in the Plane of Knowledge.Agreed!But it seems you and I are in the minority.
Everyone wants instant gratification.
If it takes them more than one minute to travel to the latest, greatest, hottest XP farming zone, they're annoyed.Some of my fondest memories of original EverQuest were traveling.
The world felt wonderfully big and scary.
I met traveling companions (safety in numbers!
), I discovered interesting places, and once at my destination, I would explore more carefully and in more detail, because after all, it took a while to get there!Planes of Power destroyed all that.
In an instant, Norrath morphed from an exciting, expansive world into a tiny little place.
People were nothing but busy little bees, teleporting from XP grind to XP grind as fast as their little portal stones could take them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502435</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502995</id>
	<title>dickhead</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246197120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>what a waste of time...  You don't like the game? fucking don't play it you dickhead and stop wasting everyones time. It really shits me that people willingly hand over cash month after month after month and then complain that it's boring. You don't like it? then you're such a douche that you deserve getting ripped off. They ain't forcing you to hand your cash over, your just such a cock face that you don't even realise you don't enjoy something any more.<br>If you don't like it fuckin quit, otherwise just bend over and take it like a man... Waaaah waaah... i have to walk too much... fuck you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what a waste of time... You do n't like the game ?
fucking do n't play it you dickhead and stop wasting everyones time .
It really shits me that people willingly hand over cash month after month after month and then complain that it 's boring .
You do n't like it ?
then you 're such a douche that you deserve getting ripped off .
They ai n't forcing you to hand your cash over , your just such a cock face that you do n't even realise you do n't enjoy something any more.If you do n't like it fuckin quit , otherwise just bend over and take it like a man... Waaaah waaah... i have to walk too much... fuck you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what a waste of time...  You don't like the game?
fucking don't play it you dickhead and stop wasting everyones time.
It really shits me that people willingly hand over cash month after month after month and then complain that it's boring.
You don't like it?
then you're such a douche that you deserve getting ripped off.
They ain't forcing you to hand your cash over, your just such a cock face that you don't even realise you don't enjoy something any more.If you don't like it fuckin quit, otherwise just bend over and take it like a man... Waaaah waaah... i have to walk too much... fuck you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504017</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Aaul</author>
	<datestamp>1246205940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
You just brought back a lot of (fond) memories of EverQuest for me. I too played it for a long time, from a month after release until right before the Omens of War expansion. My first character was a wood elf bard. I made a bard because I found out before I started that they learned a song that increased your run speed dramatically. Not only was it a convenience advantage by reducing travel time, it had a major survival benefit by being able to easily outrun things. Some of my greatest memories were the first few months of playing the game, traveling around to the new places and just exploring the world.
</p><p>
Even after I had seen everything at least once, it was still fun to travel. For me, it became something I would try to plan ahead. If I needed to make a long distance trip to some part of the world, I would find out what other things I could get done in the area I was heading to. That way it wouldn't be like I was going all the way from Qeynos to Kelethin just to turn in some random quest only.
</p><p>
Before the instant travel portals in the Plane of Knowledge, the best way to travel was to become good friends with a wizard or druid (I eventually did, but later I just made my own druid). If you needed long distance travel and they weren't busy, it was a simple matter of "Hey Bob, if you're not busy could you pick me up at the Western Commonlands druid circle and take me to South Ro?"
</p><p>
I miss a lot of things about EverQuest. It's mostly nostalgia I know, but being my first MMORPG, it really did create a lot of fun memories.
</p><p>

-Aaul</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You just brought back a lot of ( fond ) memories of EverQuest for me .
I too played it for a long time , from a month after release until right before the Omens of War expansion .
My first character was a wood elf bard .
I made a bard because I found out before I started that they learned a song that increased your run speed dramatically .
Not only was it a convenience advantage by reducing travel time , it had a major survival benefit by being able to easily outrun things .
Some of my greatest memories were the first few months of playing the game , traveling around to the new places and just exploring the world .
Even after I had seen everything at least once , it was still fun to travel .
For me , it became something I would try to plan ahead .
If I needed to make a long distance trip to some part of the world , I would find out what other things I could get done in the area I was heading to .
That way it would n't be like I was going all the way from Qeynos to Kelethin just to turn in some random quest only .
Before the instant travel portals in the Plane of Knowledge , the best way to travel was to become good friends with a wizard or druid ( I eventually did , but later I just made my own druid ) .
If you needed long distance travel and they were n't busy , it was a simple matter of " Hey Bob , if you 're not busy could you pick me up at the Western Commonlands druid circle and take me to South Ro ?
" I miss a lot of things about EverQuest .
It 's mostly nostalgia I know , but being my first MMORPG , it really did create a lot of fun memories .
-Aaul</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
You just brought back a lot of (fond) memories of EverQuest for me.
I too played it for a long time, from a month after release until right before the Omens of War expansion.
My first character was a wood elf bard.
I made a bard because I found out before I started that they learned a song that increased your run speed dramatically.
Not only was it a convenience advantage by reducing travel time, it had a major survival benefit by being able to easily outrun things.
Some of my greatest memories were the first few months of playing the game, traveling around to the new places and just exploring the world.
Even after I had seen everything at least once, it was still fun to travel.
For me, it became something I would try to plan ahead.
If I needed to make a long distance trip to some part of the world, I would find out what other things I could get done in the area I was heading to.
That way it wouldn't be like I was going all the way from Qeynos to Kelethin just to turn in some random quest only.
Before the instant travel portals in the Plane of Knowledge, the best way to travel was to become good friends with a wizard or druid (I eventually did, but later I just made my own druid).
If you needed long distance travel and they weren't busy, it was a simple matter of "Hey Bob, if you're not busy could you pick me up at the Western Commonlands druid circle and take me to South Ro?
"

I miss a lot of things about EverQuest.
It's mostly nostalgia I know, but being my first MMORPG, it really did create a lot of fun memories.
-Aaul</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502537</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502765</id>
	<title>Transportation - penal colonies in games?</title>
	<author>billlion</author>
	<datestamp>1246194360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Transportation? Sending criminals to penal colonies? Do they really do that in games? That would be a serious waste of time in games. All I did was nicked a sheep and then I had to spend the next 20 years of my game playing time in a prison camp in Australia.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Transportation ?
Sending criminals to penal colonies ?
Do they really do that in games ?
That would be a serious waste of time in games .
All I did was nicked a sheep and then I had to spend the next 20 years of my game playing time in a prison camp in Australia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Transportation?
Sending criminals to penal colonies?
Do they really do that in games?
That would be a serious waste of time in games.
All I did was nicked a sheep and then I had to spend the next 20 years of my game playing time in a prison camp in Australia.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28510595</id>
	<title>Re:Bio breaks</title>
	<author>damburger</author>
	<datestamp>1246217160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>But I think you nailed number two.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Intentional pun?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But I think you nailed number two .
Intentional pun ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But I think you nailed number two.
Intentional pun?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506073</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504179</id>
	<title>Re:What do you want...</title>
	<author>CFBMoo1</author>
	<datestamp>1246207260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A native binary to run WoW in on my Linux box as well as one for Vent.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A native binary to run WoW in on my Linux box as well as one for Vent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A native binary to run WoW in on my Linux box as well as one for Vent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502509</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28508781</id>
	<title>Re:No, the technical term is "Dead Time"</title>
	<author>ukyoCE</author>
	<datestamp>1246199880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You might want to keep in mind that no one plays the PC game Majesty.  I've never even *heard* of it, and I read gaming magazines and websites all the time.</p><p>You might also want to note that, at least in WOW, you're never waiting 20 mins to get somewhere except *maybe* if its your first time going there and you've never explored any of the places in between.  Travel time is 5 mins at most.  Waiting time is more often waiting for other players to do things (either in-game or real-life) so that the group can start.  THAT is the wait-time that needs to be fixed, and already has (in WOW) for battlegrounds.</p><p>If they can do the same thing for PUG instances, you'll have a 3-part game in which leveling is the only one with any wait-time at all.  The other 2 parts (PVP and dungeons) teleporting you in when a full group is ready and able to go.</p><p>There was a time when WOW has ridiculous travel times, but thankfully as of WotLK most of the time-wastes have been removed or substantially lessened.  And they keep getting lessened even more, eg. flying speed getting faster and cheaper in the next 3.2 patch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You might want to keep in mind that no one plays the PC game Majesty .
I 've never even * heard * of it , and I read gaming magazines and websites all the time.You might also want to note that , at least in WOW , you 're never waiting 20 mins to get somewhere except * maybe * if its your first time going there and you 've never explored any of the places in between .
Travel time is 5 mins at most .
Waiting time is more often waiting for other players to do things ( either in-game or real-life ) so that the group can start .
THAT is the wait-time that needs to be fixed , and already has ( in WOW ) for battlegrounds.If they can do the same thing for PUG instances , you 'll have a 3-part game in which leveling is the only one with any wait-time at all .
The other 2 parts ( PVP and dungeons ) teleporting you in when a full group is ready and able to go.There was a time when WOW has ridiculous travel times , but thankfully as of WotLK most of the time-wastes have been removed or substantially lessened .
And they keep getting lessened even more , eg .
flying speed getting faster and cheaper in the next 3.2 patch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You might want to keep in mind that no one plays the PC game Majesty.
I've never even *heard* of it, and I read gaming magazines and websites all the time.You might also want to note that, at least in WOW, you're never waiting 20 mins to get somewhere except *maybe* if its your first time going there and you've never explored any of the places in between.
Travel time is 5 mins at most.
Waiting time is more often waiting for other players to do things (either in-game or real-life) so that the group can start.
THAT is the wait-time that needs to be fixed, and already has (in WOW) for battlegrounds.If they can do the same thing for PUG instances, you'll have a 3-part game in which leveling is the only one with any wait-time at all.
The other 2 parts (PVP and dungeons) teleporting you in when a full group is ready and able to go.There was a time when WOW has ridiculous travel times, but thankfully as of WotLK most of the time-wastes have been removed or substantially lessened.
And they keep getting lessened even more, eg.
flying speed getting faster and cheaper in the next 3.2 patch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502501</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>MobileTatsu-NJG</author>
	<datestamp>1246191000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>More time travelling = more time playing</p><p>More time playing = more money earned</p></div><p>That only works provided people keep playing.  If they go as silly as say that Penn and Teller Sega CD game where you drive a bus to Vegas, subscriptions dry up.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>More time travelling = more time playingMore time playing = more money earnedThat only works provided people keep playing .
If they go as silly as say that Penn and Teller Sega CD game where you drive a bus to Vegas , subscriptions dry up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More time travelling = more time playingMore time playing = more money earnedThat only works provided people keep playing.
If they go as silly as say that Penn and Teller Sega CD game where you drive a bus to Vegas, subscriptions dry up.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502523</id>
	<title>Re:Automated transportation</title>
	<author>djsmiley</author>
	<datestamp>1246191240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But the whole of WoW can be automated... And then you'll get crazy things like that guy who runs  agroup of 36 shamans together - I dont play WoW so I'm not sure of what exactly they do but I'd guess they can put out a fair amount of DPS and self healing... Suddenly people stop playing because they can't farm anywhere near as fast as people with more subscriptions...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But the whole of WoW can be automated... And then you 'll get crazy things like that guy who runs agroup of 36 shamans together - I dont play WoW so I 'm not sure of what exactly they do but I 'd guess they can put out a fair amount of DPS and self healing... Suddenly people stop playing because they ca n't farm anywhere near as fast as people with more subscriptions.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But the whole of WoW can be automated... And then you'll get crazy things like that guy who runs  agroup of 36 shamans together - I dont play WoW so I'm not sure of what exactly they do but I'd guess they can put out a fair amount of DPS and self healing... Suddenly people stop playing because they can't farm anywhere near as fast as people with more subscriptions...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506817</id>
	<title>Speed should be achieved</title>
	<author>readin</author>
	<datestamp>1246182360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I started playing EQ some years back.  I've never been a hardcore gamer - never had time.  But I liked the fact that it took a while to get places, especially at lower levels.<br>
1.  While the world was big, the community was small.  You were likely to enounter the same people a few times as you both hung out in the same portion of the world. <br>
2.  It meant that there still a lot more to see.  You couldn't go see it all at once.  <br>
3.  It allowed you to spatially orient yourself and have the feeling that the world was real.<br>
4.  Travel wasn't just a trip, it was a challenge.  A low level toon running through a high level zone had to dodge and duck and learn.<br>
5.  When you went out in the wilderness, you were really out there.  There is challenge and excitement being far from civilization and support.<br>
6.  When in a certain region of the game, you were either getting help or offering help to people who were "from" other parts of the world. <br>
<br> <br>
What EQ had at the time was the prospect that you would eventually be able to travel faster.  You might get a spell to make you go faster, either running fast or porting from specific druid portals to other druid portals.  To me that seems like the right way to handle the boredom factor.  Give the higher level toons, the one's that have already explored, the ability to travel faster.
<br> <br>
The library really ruined things.  When I finally left the game for good, one thing that really made it easy was the feeling that it was no longer a place I could explore and learn about.  Instead of learning how to get from point a to point b by traveling through a world, I was just being portaled from one fairyland to another.   I would go to the Plane of knowledge by clicking on a stone near point a, then click on another stone to go where I could travel to point b.  There was no sense that point a and point b were real, they were just imaginary worlds one visited by clicking on stones.
<br> <br>
Let the newbies explore.  For players who have "been there", provide faster mounts or vehicles, or give them spells to let them travel faster.  Let them get faster and faster as they level up.  But keep the world as real as possible.  No portals or magic gateways, please.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I started playing EQ some years back .
I 've never been a hardcore gamer - never had time .
But I liked the fact that it took a while to get places , especially at lower levels .
1. While the world was big , the community was small .
You were likely to enounter the same people a few times as you both hung out in the same portion of the world .
2. It meant that there still a lot more to see .
You could n't go see it all at once .
3. It allowed you to spatially orient yourself and have the feeling that the world was real .
4. Travel was n't just a trip , it was a challenge .
A low level toon running through a high level zone had to dodge and duck and learn .
5. When you went out in the wilderness , you were really out there .
There is challenge and excitement being far from civilization and support .
6. When in a certain region of the game , you were either getting help or offering help to people who were " from " other parts of the world .
What EQ had at the time was the prospect that you would eventually be able to travel faster .
You might get a spell to make you go faster , either running fast or porting from specific druid portals to other druid portals .
To me that seems like the right way to handle the boredom factor .
Give the higher level toons , the one 's that have already explored , the ability to travel faster .
The library really ruined things .
When I finally left the game for good , one thing that really made it easy was the feeling that it was no longer a place I could explore and learn about .
Instead of learning how to get from point a to point b by traveling through a world , I was just being portaled from one fairyland to another .
I would go to the Plane of knowledge by clicking on a stone near point a , then click on another stone to go where I could travel to point b. There was no sense that point a and point b were real , they were just imaginary worlds one visited by clicking on stones .
Let the newbies explore .
For players who have " been there " , provide faster mounts or vehicles , or give them spells to let them travel faster .
Let them get faster and faster as they level up .
But keep the world as real as possible .
No portals or magic gateways , please .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I started playing EQ some years back.
I've never been a hardcore gamer - never had time.
But I liked the fact that it took a while to get places, especially at lower levels.
1.  While the world was big, the community was small.
You were likely to enounter the same people a few times as you both hung out in the same portion of the world.
2.  It meant that there still a lot more to see.
You couldn't go see it all at once.
3.  It allowed you to spatially orient yourself and have the feeling that the world was real.
4.  Travel wasn't just a trip, it was a challenge.
A low level toon running through a high level zone had to dodge and duck and learn.
5.  When you went out in the wilderness, you were really out there.
There is challenge and excitement being far from civilization and support.
6.  When in a certain region of the game, you were either getting help or offering help to people who were "from" other parts of the world.
What EQ had at the time was the prospect that you would eventually be able to travel faster.
You might get a spell to make you go faster, either running fast or porting from specific druid portals to other druid portals.
To me that seems like the right way to handle the boredom factor.
Give the higher level toons, the one's that have already explored, the ability to travel faster.
The library really ruined things.
When I finally left the game for good, one thing that really made it easy was the feeling that it was no longer a place I could explore and learn about.
Instead of learning how to get from point a to point b by traveling through a world, I was just being portaled from one fairyland to another.
I would go to the Plane of knowledge by clicking on a stone near point a, then click on another stone to go where I could travel to point b.  There was no sense that point a and point b were real, they were just imaginary worlds one visited by clicking on stones.
Let the newbies explore.
For players who have "been there", provide faster mounts or vehicles, or give them spells to let them travel faster.
Let them get faster and faster as they level up.
But keep the world as real as possible.
No portals or magic gateways, please.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502469</id>
	<title>Timesinks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246190580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>All MMOs have some kind of timesinks. It may be grinding, traveling and so on. If there was no timesinks, the game would run out of content pretty fast.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All MMOs have some kind of timesinks .
It may be grinding , traveling and so on .
If there was no timesinks , the game would run out of content pretty fast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All MMOs have some kind of timesinks.
It may be grinding, traveling and so on.
If there was no timesinks, the game would run out of content pretty fast.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504649</id>
	<title>A whole other universe....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246210380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Phantasy Star Universe (through some miracle is still running) allows you to pretty much get anywhere from your room (essentially a store house for your things). Any field base that you've been to can be accessed by going to a NPC who transports you there. However, you have to have visited all these places in order to get transported there. I've always thought this ruined the open feeling of the game and made it feel closed. That being said, I guess I haven't had to spend countless hours traversing pointless terrain just to actually play the game. If you played Phantasy Star Online and like the casual hack 'n slash feel then you should definitely try out the game. The player population is dwindling and just a sliver of the WoW pop. would make the game much funner. Please play with me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;\_;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Phantasy Star Universe ( through some miracle is still running ) allows you to pretty much get anywhere from your room ( essentially a store house for your things ) .
Any field base that you 've been to can be accessed by going to a NPC who transports you there .
However , you have to have visited all these places in order to get transported there .
I 've always thought this ruined the open feeling of the game and made it feel closed .
That being said , I guess I have n't had to spend countless hours traversing pointless terrain just to actually play the game .
If you played Phantasy Star Online and like the casual hack 'n slash feel then you should definitely try out the game .
The player population is dwindling and just a sliver of the WoW pop .
would make the game much funner .
Please play with me ; \ _ ;</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Phantasy Star Universe (through some miracle is still running) allows you to pretty much get anywhere from your room (essentially a store house for your things).
Any field base that you've been to can be accessed by going to a NPC who transports you there.
However, you have to have visited all these places in order to get transported there.
I've always thought this ruined the open feeling of the game and made it feel closed.
That being said, I guess I haven't had to spend countless hours traversing pointless terrain just to actually play the game.
If you played Phantasy Star Online and like the casual hack 'n slash feel then you should definitely try out the game.
The player population is dwindling and just a sliver of the WoW pop.
would make the game much funner.
Please play with me ;\_;</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505395</id>
	<title>So the jist is.</title>
	<author>gerardrj</author>
	<datestamp>1246215000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I understand your argument:</p><p>The initial exploration is interesting and challenging but the second time through it boring so why can't I just skip it and get to where I will inevitably be, instantly.</p><p>The corallary to that is:</p><p>The initial killing of a monster is interesting and challenging but the second time is boring, so why don't we just skip it and say I killed all the orcs.</p><p>Perhaps you should seek treatment for for ADD instead of trying to get game designs to completely alter the game play and balance of power in the game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I understand your argument : The initial exploration is interesting and challenging but the second time through it boring so why ca n't I just skip it and get to where I will inevitably be , instantly.The corallary to that is : The initial killing of a monster is interesting and challenging but the second time is boring , so why do n't we just skip it and say I killed all the orcs.Perhaps you should seek treatment for for ADD instead of trying to get game designs to completely alter the game play and balance of power in the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I understand your argument:The initial exploration is interesting and challenging but the second time through it boring so why can't I just skip it and get to where I will inevitably be, instantly.The corallary to that is:The initial killing of a monster is interesting and challenging but the second time is boring, so why don't we just skip it and say I killed all the orcs.Perhaps you should seek treatment for for ADD instead of trying to get game designs to completely alter the game play and balance of power in the game.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503065</id>
	<title>"Why does this shitburger taste like shit?"</title>
	<author>pushf popf</author>
	<datestamp>1246197900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Of course it's slow and sort-of sucks. That's it's purpose.<br> <br>

The only <strong>real</strong> point of online "games" is suck up as much of your money as possible for as many months as possible. Actual content is expensive and as long as your credit card payment doesn't bounce, there's absolutely no reason in the world why any company would make any game any better than the minimum to keep you from canceling. <br> <br>

On a less obvious note, the perceived value of a task is related to how much time and work you have invested it it, making the value of time spent in the game a self-fulfilling wish (I spent hundreds of hours doing this, therefor it must be a valuable task).

Want something <strong>really</strong> interesting to do with your time? Find or make a job that doesn't suck. Learn to SCUBA dive. Meet new people. Find a girlfriend (or a wife). Go explore the real world.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course it 's slow and sort-of sucks .
That 's it 's purpose .
The only real point of online " games " is suck up as much of your money as possible for as many months as possible .
Actual content is expensive and as long as your credit card payment does n't bounce , there 's absolutely no reason in the world why any company would make any game any better than the minimum to keep you from canceling .
On a less obvious note , the perceived value of a task is related to how much time and work you have invested it it , making the value of time spent in the game a self-fulfilling wish ( I spent hundreds of hours doing this , therefor it must be a valuable task ) .
Want something really interesting to do with your time ?
Find or make a job that does n't suck .
Learn to SCUBA dive .
Meet new people .
Find a girlfriend ( or a wife ) .
Go explore the real world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course it's slow and sort-of sucks.
That's it's purpose.
The only real point of online "games" is suck up as much of your money as possible for as many months as possible.
Actual content is expensive and as long as your credit card payment doesn't bounce, there's absolutely no reason in the world why any company would make any game any better than the minimum to keep you from canceling.
On a less obvious note, the perceived value of a task is related to how much time and work you have invested it it, making the value of time spent in the game a self-fulfilling wish (I spent hundreds of hours doing this, therefor it must be a valuable task).
Want something really interesting to do with your time?
Find or make a job that doesn't suck.
Learn to SCUBA dive.
Meet new people.
Find a girlfriend (or a wife).
Go explore the real world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505471</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246215480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, its not. Absolutely not fun at all. When you're doing a dungeon again, and again, and again because of the farming spirit of this game and you have to wait 30 minutes to get someone, it's awful.</p><p>You don't need more than 10 minutes ? If you got guys in a capital which isn't dalaran without their heartstone ready (reloading time 1 hour, so greaaat...), and you want to do a Lich King's dungeon, people will take so much time to come that you'll wonder why you're still playing this. Yes of course, you could ditch everyone and get another team and, if you're on a low pop server, wait forever.</p><p>Timesinks are stupid. Period. I don't play a game for awfully boring timesinks. And frankly people talking about "big worlds"... Who cares ! I've already explored this "big world", it doesn't seem "that" big, even if retarded automatic transportation methods takes a lot of time to go from one point to another. It's not because your character is slow as hell and takes 30-45 to run from one side of the continent to the other that a world is "big" and "nice".</p><p>People who wants ease of transportation in those games are people who don't care anymore about the landscape. They saw it so much times, they're sick of it. Flying mounts are slow, unless you want to farm as hell to get a "faster" transportation method, which you'll be unable to use if you're on Azeroth anyway, so it doesn't solve the problem indicated above.<br>Frankly, the number of timesinks of this game make me quit. Getting money by killing the fun with timesinks is completely stupid.</p><p>And, to finish this rant, "big" worlds comes with big citys. Almost all the "villages" look as big as highway gas-stations. The capitals aren't bigger than a small town. "Big" world ? Meh...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , its not .
Absolutely not fun at all .
When you 're doing a dungeon again , and again , and again because of the farming spirit of this game and you have to wait 30 minutes to get someone , it 's awful.You do n't need more than 10 minutes ?
If you got guys in a capital which is n't dalaran without their heartstone ready ( reloading time 1 hour , so greaaat... ) , and you want to do a Lich King 's dungeon , people will take so much time to come that you 'll wonder why you 're still playing this .
Yes of course , you could ditch everyone and get another team and , if you 're on a low pop server , wait forever.Timesinks are stupid .
Period. I do n't play a game for awfully boring timesinks .
And frankly people talking about " big worlds " ... Who cares !
I 've already explored this " big world " , it does n't seem " that " big , even if retarded automatic transportation methods takes a lot of time to go from one point to another .
It 's not because your character is slow as hell and takes 30-45 to run from one side of the continent to the other that a world is " big " and " nice " .People who wants ease of transportation in those games are people who do n't care anymore about the landscape .
They saw it so much times , they 're sick of it .
Flying mounts are slow , unless you want to farm as hell to get a " faster " transportation method , which you 'll be unable to use if you 're on Azeroth anyway , so it does n't solve the problem indicated above.Frankly , the number of timesinks of this game make me quit .
Getting money by killing the fun with timesinks is completely stupid.And , to finish this rant , " big " worlds comes with big citys .
Almost all the " villages " look as big as highway gas-stations .
The capitals are n't bigger than a small town .
" Big " world ?
Meh.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, its not.
Absolutely not fun at all.
When you're doing a dungeon again, and again, and again because of the farming spirit of this game and you have to wait 30 minutes to get someone, it's awful.You don't need more than 10 minutes ?
If you got guys in a capital which isn't dalaran without their heartstone ready (reloading time 1 hour, so greaaat...), and you want to do a Lich King's dungeon, people will take so much time to come that you'll wonder why you're still playing this.
Yes of course, you could ditch everyone and get another team and, if you're on a low pop server, wait forever.Timesinks are stupid.
Period. I don't play a game for awfully boring timesinks.
And frankly people talking about "big worlds"... Who cares !
I've already explored this "big world", it doesn't seem "that" big, even if retarded automatic transportation methods takes a lot of time to go from one point to another.
It's not because your character is slow as hell and takes 30-45 to run from one side of the continent to the other that a world is "big" and "nice".People who wants ease of transportation in those games are people who don't care anymore about the landscape.
They saw it so much times, they're sick of it.
Flying mounts are slow, unless you want to farm as hell to get a "faster" transportation method, which you'll be unable to use if you're on Azeroth anyway, so it doesn't solve the problem indicated above.Frankly, the number of timesinks of this game make me quit.
Getting money by killing the fun with timesinks is completely stupid.And, to finish this rant, "big" worlds comes with big citys.
Almost all the "villages" look as big as highway gas-stations.
The capitals aren't bigger than a small town.
"Big" world ?
Meh...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503191</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505241</id>
	<title>Plenty big.</title>
	<author>SanityInAnarchy</author>
	<datestamp>1246214040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm going to chime in with everyone else and point out that while instantaneous teleportation to <i>anywhere</i> probably wouldn't work -- it would make the world feel smaller, and make it much more difficult to build any sort of a decent dungeon -- having some sort of teleportation is just useful.</p><p>Teleportation in <a href="http://nexustk.com/" title="nexustk.com">Nexus TK</a> [nexustk.com] works like so: At any given point, you're either in Vortex (high-level hunting area), or you're in one of three kingdoms. In each of these places, there are four gates -- north, south, east, and west. And you have a spell which takes you to these places, instantly.</p><p>There's also your home point -- could be an inn, your house, or a subpath area. Use a yellow scroll (costs one coin; absurdly cheap) and you teleport there instantly. That's not a homestone with a 60 second wait -- that's an instantaneous effect, zero cooldown spell.</p><p>Travel between kingdoms is usually a few steps (no more than a 10-20 second walk) from the North Gate of a given kingdom, and maybe another ten seconds to switch servers. That same system also provides shortcuts to specific places within kingdoms.</p><p>All of this is in the large, registered player, post-level-50 content. They recently added an area (Tangun) for level 50 and under, where players are essentially trapped in a single large map. Yet even here, teleportation to the "home point" within this map is possible, and you can pick up a horse at about level 2, and it'll take maybe five minutes to ride around that entire map, if that.</p><p>Hell, even clans have crafting areas, and often various instantaneous portals from the clan hall to various points of interest.</p><p>Now, it's not WoW, but I honestly don't see the point in it taking 20 minutes to get anywhere, unless the act of getting there is somehow part of a quest. Whether the world feels small depends mostly on what you do in it -- if you're always going to the same places, yes, it seems small, so stop doing that.</p><p>The way to make your world seem larger is content, not gimmicks like slow portals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm going to chime in with everyone else and point out that while instantaneous teleportation to anywhere probably would n't work -- it would make the world feel smaller , and make it much more difficult to build any sort of a decent dungeon -- having some sort of teleportation is just useful.Teleportation in Nexus TK [ nexustk.com ] works like so : At any given point , you 're either in Vortex ( high-level hunting area ) , or you 're in one of three kingdoms .
In each of these places , there are four gates -- north , south , east , and west .
And you have a spell which takes you to these places , instantly.There 's also your home point -- could be an inn , your house , or a subpath area .
Use a yellow scroll ( costs one coin ; absurdly cheap ) and you teleport there instantly .
That 's not a homestone with a 60 second wait -- that 's an instantaneous effect , zero cooldown spell.Travel between kingdoms is usually a few steps ( no more than a 10-20 second walk ) from the North Gate of a given kingdom , and maybe another ten seconds to switch servers .
That same system also provides shortcuts to specific places within kingdoms.All of this is in the large , registered player , post-level-50 content .
They recently added an area ( Tangun ) for level 50 and under , where players are essentially trapped in a single large map .
Yet even here , teleportation to the " home point " within this map is possible , and you can pick up a horse at about level 2 , and it 'll take maybe five minutes to ride around that entire map , if that.Hell , even clans have crafting areas , and often various instantaneous portals from the clan hall to various points of interest.Now , it 's not WoW , but I honestly do n't see the point in it taking 20 minutes to get anywhere , unless the act of getting there is somehow part of a quest .
Whether the world feels small depends mostly on what you do in it -- if you 're always going to the same places , yes , it seems small , so stop doing that.The way to make your world seem larger is content , not gimmicks like slow portals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm going to chime in with everyone else and point out that while instantaneous teleportation to anywhere probably wouldn't work -- it would make the world feel smaller, and make it much more difficult to build any sort of a decent dungeon -- having some sort of teleportation is just useful.Teleportation in Nexus TK [nexustk.com] works like so: At any given point, you're either in Vortex (high-level hunting area), or you're in one of three kingdoms.
In each of these places, there are four gates -- north, south, east, and west.
And you have a spell which takes you to these places, instantly.There's also your home point -- could be an inn, your house, or a subpath area.
Use a yellow scroll (costs one coin; absurdly cheap) and you teleport there instantly.
That's not a homestone with a 60 second wait -- that's an instantaneous effect, zero cooldown spell.Travel between kingdoms is usually a few steps (no more than a 10-20 second walk) from the North Gate of a given kingdom, and maybe another ten seconds to switch servers.
That same system also provides shortcuts to specific places within kingdoms.All of this is in the large, registered player, post-level-50 content.
They recently added an area (Tangun) for level 50 and under, where players are essentially trapped in a single large map.
Yet even here, teleportation to the "home point" within this map is possible, and you can pick up a horse at about level 2, and it'll take maybe five minutes to ride around that entire map, if that.Hell, even clans have crafting areas, and often various instantaneous portals from the clan hall to various points of interest.Now, it's not WoW, but I honestly don't see the point in it taking 20 minutes to get anywhere, unless the act of getting there is somehow part of a quest.
Whether the world feels small depends mostly on what you do in it -- if you're always going to the same places, yes, it seems small, so stop doing that.The way to make your world seem larger is content, not gimmicks like slow portals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502377</id>
	<title>Free Realms</title>
	<author>binkzz</author>
	<datestamp>1246189380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Sony game "Free Realms" allows you to transport from anywhere to a certain number of pre-defined portals. I'm sure the world would feel bigger if you had to walk everywhere, but it still feels big because you have to walk to a portal before you can use it, and explore all areas yourself to get quests and solve things. I did get bored with the game, as I do with any mmorpg, but that aspect I liked.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Sony game " Free Realms " allows you to transport from anywhere to a certain number of pre-defined portals .
I 'm sure the world would feel bigger if you had to walk everywhere , but it still feels big because you have to walk to a portal before you can use it , and explore all areas yourself to get quests and solve things .
I did get bored with the game , as I do with any mmorpg , but that aspect I liked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Sony game "Free Realms" allows you to transport from anywhere to a certain number of pre-defined portals.
I'm sure the world would feel bigger if you had to walk everywhere, but it still feels big because you have to walk to a portal before you can use it, and explore all areas yourself to get quests and solve things.
I did get bored with the game, as I do with any mmorpg, but that aspect I liked.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28511947</id>
	<title>Where is the $#@!! Monorail already??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246275240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>A certain Post-Apocalypse MMO out there has you ride a horse or ATV *everywhere* - some trips can take 5 hours of real time!</htmltext>
<tokenext>A certain Post-Apocalypse MMO out there has you ride a horse or ATV * everywhere * - some trips can take 5 hours of real time !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A certain Post-Apocalypse MMO out there has you ride a horse or ATV *everywhere* - some trips can take 5 hours of real time!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503643</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Tokah</author>
	<datestamp>1246202820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>EQ, however, was big ENOUGH that you grouped with the people who happened to be where you were, rather than meeting them halfway around the world. It set a better grouping culture, I think. Insta-transport games are at the other end of the spectrum. The games that fall in the middle, not big enough to have old EQ's grouping culture, and not small enough to get around in a few minutes are the ones that feel annoying. (DAoC and WoW both fall in this category, but at least in DAoC you could get OFF the horse whenever you wanted!)</htmltext>
<tokenext>EQ , however , was big ENOUGH that you grouped with the people who happened to be where you were , rather than meeting them halfway around the world .
It set a better grouping culture , I think .
Insta-transport games are at the other end of the spectrum .
The games that fall in the middle , not big enough to have old EQ 's grouping culture , and not small enough to get around in a few minutes are the ones that feel annoying .
( DAoC and WoW both fall in this category , but at least in DAoC you could get OFF the horse whenever you wanted !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>EQ, however, was big ENOUGH that you grouped with the people who happened to be where you were, rather than meeting them halfway around the world.
It set a better grouping culture, I think.
Insta-transport games are at the other end of the spectrum.
The games that fall in the middle, not big enough to have old EQ's grouping culture, and not small enough to get around in a few minutes are the ones that feel annoying.
(DAoC and WoW both fall in this category, but at least in DAoC you could get OFF the horse whenever you wanted!
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</id>
	<title>As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246189200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you allow teleporting from anywhere to anywhere it doesn't matter how big you make your world, because to everyone it will feel small.</p><p>In regards to why World of Warcraft uses the "flying on a griffin" form of <a href="http://books.google.com.au/books?id=z3VP7MYKqaIC&amp;pg=PA282" title="google.com.au">"slow portals"</a> [google.com.au], that's cause they've read Bartle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you allow teleporting from anywhere to anywhere it does n't matter how big you make your world , because to everyone it will feel small.In regards to why World of Warcraft uses the " flying on a griffin " form of " slow portals " [ google.com.au ] , that 's cause they 've read Bartle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you allow teleporting from anywhere to anywhere it doesn't matter how big you make your world, because to everyone it will feel small.In regards to why World of Warcraft uses the "flying on a griffin" form of "slow portals" [google.com.au], that's cause they've read Bartle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504957</id>
	<title>Server Load</title>
	<author>Zadaz</author>
	<datestamp>1246212240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Server load is the primary reason you can't travel instantaneously everywhere.  It prevents flashmobs from forming and driving performance through the ground.  Walking/riding/flying is the in-world application of this concept.  If it takes 10 minutes to get there, not everyone will come (because of course it's 10 minutes back.)  Also as players approach a crowded area they ease into the lag and can decide to get away before they get into the middle of it.  If humans could freely teleport around the planet, they would have crushed the UCLA Medical Center last Thursday.</p><p>From a design point of view it encourages social behavior to get people to travel in packs.  The more social people are the more they play the game.  In addition it becomes another improvement point for the player--faster travel, along with better armor/attack rating/spells, etc, etc.  This gives players more options about what to pursue for their character which is good.</p><p>Besides time spent on a mount isn't wasted.  There are tons of stuff you can do while on a mount, just not killing.</p><p>A less practical reason is to cut down twinking and PLing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Server load is the primary reason you ca n't travel instantaneously everywhere .
It prevents flashmobs from forming and driving performance through the ground .
Walking/riding/flying is the in-world application of this concept .
If it takes 10 minutes to get there , not everyone will come ( because of course it 's 10 minutes back .
) Also as players approach a crowded area they ease into the lag and can decide to get away before they get into the middle of it .
If humans could freely teleport around the planet , they would have crushed the UCLA Medical Center last Thursday.From a design point of view it encourages social behavior to get people to travel in packs .
The more social people are the more they play the game .
In addition it becomes another improvement point for the player--faster travel , along with better armor/attack rating/spells , etc , etc .
This gives players more options about what to pursue for their character which is good.Besides time spent on a mount is n't wasted .
There are tons of stuff you can do while on a mount , just not killing.A less practical reason is to cut down twinking and PLing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Server load is the primary reason you can't travel instantaneously everywhere.
It prevents flashmobs from forming and driving performance through the ground.
Walking/riding/flying is the in-world application of this concept.
If it takes 10 minutes to get there, not everyone will come (because of course it's 10 minutes back.
)  Also as players approach a crowded area they ease into the lag and can decide to get away before they get into the middle of it.
If humans could freely teleport around the planet, they would have crushed the UCLA Medical Center last Thursday.From a design point of view it encourages social behavior to get people to travel in packs.
The more social people are the more they play the game.
In addition it becomes another improvement point for the player--faster travel, along with better armor/attack rating/spells, etc, etc.
This gives players more options about what to pursue for their character which is good.Besides time spent on a mount isn't wasted.
There are tons of stuff you can do while on a mount, just not killing.A less practical reason is to cut down twinking and PLing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28511293</id>
	<title>Travel must match Gameplay</title>
	<author>Myrcutio</author>
	<datestamp>1246268040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Any system of transportation has to fit with the gameplay design.  In a level based MMORPG time spent is inherently valuable to the player, and more time spent is equivalent to more accomplished on that character.  In WoW for example, most of the auction house prices for commodities are based on the time required to gather them.  In Diablo II however, value was closely tied to rarity.  One couldn't simply take several hours to farm a boss and be guaranteed a proportionate value for that time spent.  This is primarily due to the mechanics of loot being a lottery, which was a necessity that arose from the ease of movement and the ability to kill the same boss quickly in a short period of time.<br> <br>

Skill based games on the other hand, such as realtime strategies or first person shooters, place a much higher value on movement and travel, and present obstacles to force decisionmaking by the player.  Instantaneous travel is only more fun if that travel is boring.  The best solution to this problem is to make travel incorporate gameplay and trigger conscious decisions by the player.<br> <br>

One game which utilized this concept brilliantly was the Tribes series (1 and 2 primarily, much less so with Vengeance.)  In Tribes, the player was given a plethora of options to reach the enemy base.  One could use a speedy Shrike fighter to reach any part of the map quickly, but would have to deal with possible dogfights against other fighters, or evading ground to air missiles.  Another option was to take a fast ground vehicle, which could evade missiles and most fights, but required the player to navigate a path and take longer.  And of course there was the scout armor, which allowed the player to fly for short periods of time, moving quickly across the map but do relatively little damage.  This mentality was countered again by the heavy armor, which excelled at sheer firepower but was painfully slow and often a sitting duck when outdoors.  A given player had to consider carefully how he preferred to fight, what his intended target was, and how he got there played a large role in this decision.<br> <br>

In WoW movement has been simplified to effectively remove it from any complex decisionmaking process.  PVP focuses on either a player moving, or being frozen/stunned, while PVE the movement is little more than a script players follow once they learn an encounter, the decision is made for them.<br> <br>

It wasn't by accident that the only hindrance to players' movement in WoW is time or direct combat with monsters/players, those can be influenced by the game mechanics directly, and encourage the player to weigh his options.  In Ultima Online, movement was instant if you could afford the runebooks, and a struggle if you couldn't.  The most fun i had in UO was simply walking from one city to the next, fighting my way through jungles, fending off PKers, finding/making food and weapons which were consumed along the way, that sort of environmental interaction was a blast.  I personally think UO was ruined by runes (no pun intended) because of all the gameplay that players skipped because of it.<br> <br>

I've been somewhat long winded on this, but my point is that if a game is all about killing some mob at the destination, then the journey won't be nearly as interesting, and it really should be.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Any system of transportation has to fit with the gameplay design .
In a level based MMORPG time spent is inherently valuable to the player , and more time spent is equivalent to more accomplished on that character .
In WoW for example , most of the auction house prices for commodities are based on the time required to gather them .
In Diablo II however , value was closely tied to rarity .
One could n't simply take several hours to farm a boss and be guaranteed a proportionate value for that time spent .
This is primarily due to the mechanics of loot being a lottery , which was a necessity that arose from the ease of movement and the ability to kill the same boss quickly in a short period of time .
Skill based games on the other hand , such as realtime strategies or first person shooters , place a much higher value on movement and travel , and present obstacles to force decisionmaking by the player .
Instantaneous travel is only more fun if that travel is boring .
The best solution to this problem is to make travel incorporate gameplay and trigger conscious decisions by the player .
One game which utilized this concept brilliantly was the Tribes series ( 1 and 2 primarily , much less so with Vengeance .
) In Tribes , the player was given a plethora of options to reach the enemy base .
One could use a speedy Shrike fighter to reach any part of the map quickly , but would have to deal with possible dogfights against other fighters , or evading ground to air missiles .
Another option was to take a fast ground vehicle , which could evade missiles and most fights , but required the player to navigate a path and take longer .
And of course there was the scout armor , which allowed the player to fly for short periods of time , moving quickly across the map but do relatively little damage .
This mentality was countered again by the heavy armor , which excelled at sheer firepower but was painfully slow and often a sitting duck when outdoors .
A given player had to consider carefully how he preferred to fight , what his intended target was , and how he got there played a large role in this decision .
In WoW movement has been simplified to effectively remove it from any complex decisionmaking process .
PVP focuses on either a player moving , or being frozen/stunned , while PVE the movement is little more than a script players follow once they learn an encounter , the decision is made for them .
It was n't by accident that the only hindrance to players ' movement in WoW is time or direct combat with monsters/players , those can be influenced by the game mechanics directly , and encourage the player to weigh his options .
In Ultima Online , movement was instant if you could afford the runebooks , and a struggle if you could n't .
The most fun i had in UO was simply walking from one city to the next , fighting my way through jungles , fending off PKers , finding/making food and weapons which were consumed along the way , that sort of environmental interaction was a blast .
I personally think UO was ruined by runes ( no pun intended ) because of all the gameplay that players skipped because of it .
I 've been somewhat long winded on this , but my point is that if a game is all about killing some mob at the destination , then the journey wo n't be nearly as interesting , and it really should be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any system of transportation has to fit with the gameplay design.
In a level based MMORPG time spent is inherently valuable to the player, and more time spent is equivalent to more accomplished on that character.
In WoW for example, most of the auction house prices for commodities are based on the time required to gather them.
In Diablo II however, value was closely tied to rarity.
One couldn't simply take several hours to farm a boss and be guaranteed a proportionate value for that time spent.
This is primarily due to the mechanics of loot being a lottery, which was a necessity that arose from the ease of movement and the ability to kill the same boss quickly in a short period of time.
Skill based games on the other hand, such as realtime strategies or first person shooters, place a much higher value on movement and travel, and present obstacles to force decisionmaking by the player.
Instantaneous travel is only more fun if that travel is boring.
The best solution to this problem is to make travel incorporate gameplay and trigger conscious decisions by the player.
One game which utilized this concept brilliantly was the Tribes series (1 and 2 primarily, much less so with Vengeance.
)  In Tribes, the player was given a plethora of options to reach the enemy base.
One could use a speedy Shrike fighter to reach any part of the map quickly, but would have to deal with possible dogfights against other fighters, or evading ground to air missiles.
Another option was to take a fast ground vehicle, which could evade missiles and most fights, but required the player to navigate a path and take longer.
And of course there was the scout armor, which allowed the player to fly for short periods of time, moving quickly across the map but do relatively little damage.
This mentality was countered again by the heavy armor, which excelled at sheer firepower but was painfully slow and often a sitting duck when outdoors.
A given player had to consider carefully how he preferred to fight, what his intended target was, and how he got there played a large role in this decision.
In WoW movement has been simplified to effectively remove it from any complex decisionmaking process.
PVP focuses on either a player moving, or being frozen/stunned, while PVE the movement is little more than a script players follow once they learn an encounter, the decision is made for them.
It wasn't by accident that the only hindrance to players' movement in WoW is time or direct combat with monsters/players, those can be influenced by the game mechanics directly, and encourage the player to weigh his options.
In Ultima Online, movement was instant if you could afford the runebooks, and a struggle if you couldn't.
The most fun i had in UO was simply walking from one city to the next, fighting my way through jungles, fending off PKers, finding/making food and weapons which were consumed along the way, that sort of environmental interaction was a blast.
I personally think UO was ruined by runes (no pun intended) because of all the gameplay that players skipped because of it.
I've been somewhat long winded on this, but my point is that if a game is all about killing some mob at the destination, then the journey won't be nearly as interesting, and it really should be.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28508009</id>
	<title>Just Mark a Rune Stone</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246192380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is why I loved Ultima Online so much, and refuse to play any MMORPG since UO. UO gave the player so much freedom, including being able to mark rune stones (I think that is what they were called) at any point in the world. You could then cast the recall spell on the stone and you would appear back in the same spot where you put the mark on the stone. In the early days, this caused some hilarious problems, whereas a player would mark a rune stone on a open field, someone would build a house on it, and then you could recall into their house and steal their stuff. LOL.
<br> <br>
But this teleportation made the game so much more fun. If a friend signed on and was somewhere in the World and wanted to party up with you, you probably had a stone for near the location where he was at, or if he was a higher level mage, could open a portal for you. Also, if you go out and explore and find a really cool thing (such as when you could buy a boat and sail the high seas and find an island) -- you could mark it and return there later, without having to go through the whole ridiculousness of the said journey again that is no longer fun (why do you think console RPG's lose MAJOR points on backtracking)? That said, there is something cool about not being able to easily get back to a really rare but cool place, but there has to be a balance.
<br> <br>
One thing I find lacking in modern MMO's in the realistic representation of death. UO actually allowed you to kill people, and loot their corpse. None of this , you die but magically keep all your stuff. That is so lame. Just my opinion, but I cannot stand WOW. To me its so watered down and lame (no offense to WOW players). I would just love to see another UO type RPG. I am surprised no one has made one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is why I loved Ultima Online so much , and refuse to play any MMORPG since UO .
UO gave the player so much freedom , including being able to mark rune stones ( I think that is what they were called ) at any point in the world .
You could then cast the recall spell on the stone and you would appear back in the same spot where you put the mark on the stone .
In the early days , this caused some hilarious problems , whereas a player would mark a rune stone on a open field , someone would build a house on it , and then you could recall into their house and steal their stuff .
LOL . But this teleportation made the game so much more fun .
If a friend signed on and was somewhere in the World and wanted to party up with you , you probably had a stone for near the location where he was at , or if he was a higher level mage , could open a portal for you .
Also , if you go out and explore and find a really cool thing ( such as when you could buy a boat and sail the high seas and find an island ) -- you could mark it and return there later , without having to go through the whole ridiculousness of the said journey again that is no longer fun ( why do you think console RPG 's lose MAJOR points on backtracking ) ?
That said , there is something cool about not being able to easily get back to a really rare but cool place , but there has to be a balance .
One thing I find lacking in modern MMO 's in the realistic representation of death .
UO actually allowed you to kill people , and loot their corpse .
None of this , you die but magically keep all your stuff .
That is so lame .
Just my opinion , but I can not stand WOW .
To me its so watered down and lame ( no offense to WOW players ) .
I would just love to see another UO type RPG .
I am surprised no one has made one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is why I loved Ultima Online so much, and refuse to play any MMORPG since UO.
UO gave the player so much freedom, including being able to mark rune stones (I think that is what they were called) at any point in the world.
You could then cast the recall spell on the stone and you would appear back in the same spot where you put the mark on the stone.
In the early days, this caused some hilarious problems, whereas a player would mark a rune stone on a open field, someone would build a house on it, and then you could recall into their house and steal their stuff.
LOL.
 
But this teleportation made the game so much more fun.
If a friend signed on and was somewhere in the World and wanted to party up with you, you probably had a stone for near the location where he was at, or if he was a higher level mage, could open a portal for you.
Also, if you go out and explore and find a really cool thing (such as when you could buy a boat and sail the high seas and find an island) -- you could mark it and return there later, without having to go through the whole ridiculousness of the said journey again that is no longer fun (why do you think console RPG's lose MAJOR points on backtracking)?
That said, there is something cool about not being able to easily get back to a really rare but cool place, but there has to be a balance.
One thing I find lacking in modern MMO's in the realistic representation of death.
UO actually allowed you to kill people, and loot their corpse.
None of this , you die but magically keep all your stuff.
That is so lame.
Just my opinion, but I cannot stand WOW.
To me its so watered down and lame (no offense to WOW players).
I would just love to see another UO type RPG.
I am surprised no one has made one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503789</id>
	<title>oxonobiously</title>
	<author>pr0nbot</author>
	<datestamp>1246204200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>oxonobiously is my new favourite word<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>oxonobiously is my new favourite word : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>oxonobiously is my new favourite word :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504229</id>
	<title>Re:Why doesn't real life allow easier transportati</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246207740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Something sucks in real life, therefore it should also suck in role playing games?  Even though there's no <em>technical reason</em> why it must be so?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Something sucks in real life , therefore it should also suck in role playing games ?
Even though there 's no technical reason why it must be so ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Something sucks in real life, therefore it should also suck in role playing games?
Even though there's no technical reason why it must be so?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502911</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28517791</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Impy the Impiuos Imp</author>
	<datestamp>1246305720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>City of Heroes has high speed travel and true 3D travel.  They also have a rapid transit system to jump to other zones faster.  And it starts at level 14, which is about 1 day's "hard" work, or 2-3 if you're taking it easy and actually...enjoying the game.</p><p>And then they allowed supergroup (i.e. guild) bases and you could put teleporters in there, and you got a base teleporter as a vet reward if you subscribed long enough, which by that time, many had.  Getting the "beacon" for each zone so your base could teleport it became a sub-game.</p><p>Then came Oroboros, which was a floaty island realm that served as a hub for time travel.  You got "the secret", which was an instant teleport to Oroboros, right at its own teleporter, which you could immediately take to teleport to most zones in the game.</p><p>So without much work, I now carry two teleporter clickies that teleport me to one of two hubs where I can then teleport pretty much anywhere.  I use them when flying or super-jumping in excess of 60 miles per hour gets boring.</p><p>Tell me how awesome that level 40 horse which multiplies your speed by, umm, 1.6, is again?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>City of Heroes has high speed travel and true 3D travel .
They also have a rapid transit system to jump to other zones faster .
And it starts at level 14 , which is about 1 day 's " hard " work , or 2-3 if you 're taking it easy and actually...enjoying the game.And then they allowed supergroup ( i.e .
guild ) bases and you could put teleporters in there , and you got a base teleporter as a vet reward if you subscribed long enough , which by that time , many had .
Getting the " beacon " for each zone so your base could teleport it became a sub-game.Then came Oroboros , which was a floaty island realm that served as a hub for time travel .
You got " the secret " , which was an instant teleport to Oroboros , right at its own teleporter , which you could immediately take to teleport to most zones in the game.So without much work , I now carry two teleporter clickies that teleport me to one of two hubs where I can then teleport pretty much anywhere .
I use them when flying or super-jumping in excess of 60 miles per hour gets boring.Tell me how awesome that level 40 horse which multiplies your speed by , umm , 1.6 , is again ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>City of Heroes has high speed travel and true 3D travel.
They also have a rapid transit system to jump to other zones faster.
And it starts at level 14, which is about 1 day's "hard" work, or 2-3 if you're taking it easy and actually...enjoying the game.And then they allowed supergroup (i.e.
guild) bases and you could put teleporters in there, and you got a base teleporter as a vet reward if you subscribed long enough, which by that time, many had.
Getting the "beacon" for each zone so your base could teleport it became a sub-game.Then came Oroboros, which was a floaty island realm that served as a hub for time travel.
You got "the secret", which was an instant teleport to Oroboros, right at its own teleporter, which you could immediately take to teleport to most zones in the game.So without much work, I now carry two teleporter clickies that teleport me to one of two hubs where I can then teleport pretty much anywhere.
I use them when flying or super-jumping in excess of 60 miles per hour gets boring.Tell me how awesome that level 40 horse which multiplies your speed by, umm, 1.6, is again?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28509041</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>fractoid</author>
	<datestamp>1246202520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually he's right. It's the same reason that they make it annoyingly time consuming to get good gear at top end - because <i>time is money</i>. Time is the only real currency in an MMO. If anything is quick or easy to get, then everyone can get it and it becomes essentially worthless regardless of its in-game quality. If players can instantly travel then the world shrinks and the sense of scale is lost.
<br> <br>I'm not saying that Blizzard didn't overdo it a bit with early WoW. Over the years they've dramatically reduced the required travel time, mounts are now purchasable much earlier, once you get into the expansion content you can teleport to any major city, flight paths have been tweaked to reduce flying time. Instances have 'summoning stones' which allow you to summon party members if you don't have a warlock to summon. You can queue for battlegrounds from anywhere in the world, and be teleported back to where you left off once your battleground is over.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually he 's right .
It 's the same reason that they make it annoyingly time consuming to get good gear at top end - because time is money .
Time is the only real currency in an MMO .
If anything is quick or easy to get , then everyone can get it and it becomes essentially worthless regardless of its in-game quality .
If players can instantly travel then the world shrinks and the sense of scale is lost .
I 'm not saying that Blizzard did n't overdo it a bit with early WoW .
Over the years they 've dramatically reduced the required travel time , mounts are now purchasable much earlier , once you get into the expansion content you can teleport to any major city , flight paths have been tweaked to reduce flying time .
Instances have 'summoning stones ' which allow you to summon party members if you do n't have a warlock to summon .
You can queue for battlegrounds from anywhere in the world , and be teleported back to where you left off once your battleground is over .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually he's right.
It's the same reason that they make it annoyingly time consuming to get good gear at top end - because time is money.
Time is the only real currency in an MMO.
If anything is quick or easy to get, then everyone can get it and it becomes essentially worthless regardless of its in-game quality.
If players can instantly travel then the world shrinks and the sense of scale is lost.
I'm not saying that Blizzard didn't overdo it a bit with early WoW.
Over the years they've dramatically reduced the required travel time, mounts are now purchasable much earlier, once you get into the expansion content you can teleport to any major city, flight paths have been tweaked to reduce flying time.
Instances have 'summoning stones' which allow you to summon party members if you don't have a warlock to summon.
You can queue for battlegrounds from anywhere in the world, and be teleported back to where you left off once your battleground is over.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503167</id>
	<title>Re:Or, the alternative...</title>
	<author>slackbheep</author>
	<datestamp>1246198980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Problem is that the only thing more boring than PVE on EVE is 5 minute autopilot runs between station and waypoint. You almost start praying to be tackled at a gate for some excitement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Problem is that the only thing more boring than PVE on EVE is 5 minute autopilot runs between station and waypoint .
You almost start praying to be tackled at a gate for some excitement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Problem is that the only thing more boring than PVE on EVE is 5 minute autopilot runs between station and waypoint.
You almost start praying to be tackled at a gate for some excitement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506125</id>
	<title>Re:Because of overcrowding</title>
	<author>genner</author>
	<datestamp>1246219800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you could teleport anywhere within a game at any time instantly, the best places, best quests, and so forth would all be overcrowded. It's like if you could teleport anywhere instantly in real life. The California coast would be heaving every weekend and evening and numerous "hotspots" would be crowded with tens of thousands of people 24/7. Popular areas in existing games have demonstrated this, since they're usually the easiest places to get to. A key example is outside the bank in Ultima Online's Britain.</p></div><p>Brit's bank was neccessary given the lack of a real auction house.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you could teleport anywhere within a game at any time instantly , the best places , best quests , and so forth would all be overcrowded .
It 's like if you could teleport anywhere instantly in real life .
The California coast would be heaving every weekend and evening and numerous " hotspots " would be crowded with tens of thousands of people 24/7 .
Popular areas in existing games have demonstrated this , since they 're usually the easiest places to get to .
A key example is outside the bank in Ultima Online 's Britain.Brit 's bank was neccessary given the lack of a real auction house .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you could teleport anywhere within a game at any time instantly, the best places, best quests, and so forth would all be overcrowded.
It's like if you could teleport anywhere instantly in real life.
The California coast would be heaving every weekend and evening and numerous "hotspots" would be crowded with tens of thousands of people 24/7.
Popular areas in existing games have demonstrated this, since they're usually the easiest places to get to.
A key example is outside the bank in Ultima Online's Britain.Brit's bank was neccessary given the lack of a real auction house.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503575</id>
	<title>Obligatory question</title>
	<author>Kral\_Blbec</author>
	<datestamp>1246202280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you have a fridge next to your computer?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you have a fridge next to your computer ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you have a fridge next to your computer?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502407</id>
	<title>Pretty simple</title>
	<author>omgarthas</author>
	<datestamp>1246189800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>More time travelling = more time playing<br> <br>

More time playing = more money earned</htmltext>
<tokenext>More time travelling = more time playing More time playing = more money earned</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More time travelling = more time playing 

More time playing = more money earned</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506529</id>
	<title>Everquest</title>
	<author>mqduck</author>
	<datestamp>1246179660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The first MMO I played was Everquest (actually, Ultima Online, very briefly), where traveling from one side of the world to the other took maybe an hour, if you were very, very lucky.</p><p>Compared to that, WOW changed everything. I've never felt any reason to complain again. Just my two Abrahams.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The first MMO I played was Everquest ( actually , Ultima Online , very briefly ) , where traveling from one side of the world to the other took maybe an hour , if you were very , very lucky.Compared to that , WOW changed everything .
I 've never felt any reason to complain again .
Just my two Abrahams .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first MMO I played was Everquest (actually, Ultima Online, very briefly), where traveling from one side of the world to the other took maybe an hour, if you were very, very lucky.Compared to that, WOW changed everything.
I've never felt any reason to complain again.
Just my two Abrahams.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28511589</id>
	<title>because....</title>
	<author>smash</author>
	<datestamp>1246271820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>MMOs are combat and territory based.
<p>
If an enemy faction has blocked your transport route to destination FOO, then allowing you to simply teleport anywhere makes that whole gameplay aspect redundant.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MMOs are combat and territory based .
If an enemy faction has blocked your transport route to destination FOO , then allowing you to simply teleport anywhere makes that whole gameplay aspect redundant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MMOs are combat and territory based.
If an enemy faction has blocked your transport route to destination FOO, then allowing you to simply teleport anywhere makes that whole gameplay aspect redundant.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503177</id>
	<title>You think WoW is bad?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246199100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've played only a couple MMORPGS, but FFXI was far, far worse in this regard than WoW. It took at least an hour just to walk to another area. And there are no flight paths. WoW isn't a perfect game, but I think this is one of the things I actually feel it does pretty well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've played only a couple MMORPGS , but FFXI was far , far worse in this regard than WoW .
It took at least an hour just to walk to another area .
And there are no flight paths .
WoW is n't a perfect game , but I think this is one of the things I actually feel it does pretty well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've played only a couple MMORPGS, but FFXI was far, far worse in this regard than WoW.
It took at least an hour just to walk to another area.
And there are no flight paths.
WoW isn't a perfect game, but I think this is one of the things I actually feel it does pretty well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502885</id>
	<title>One word really:</title>
	<author>NotFamousYet</author>
	<datestamp>1246195920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Stickiness</htmltext>
<tokenext>Stickiness</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stickiness</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28512861</id>
	<title>Re:No, the technical term is "Dead Time"</title>
	<author>dontPanik</author>
	<datestamp>1246283520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As the Lead Designer of the PC game Majesty explained to me the technical term is called "Dead Time." If the player is \_bored\_, you hav \_failed\_ as a game designer.</p></div><p>I don't agree with your opinion, I think that the transportation system in WoW does a good job of making one feel immersed in the world,<br> <br>
but I just wanted to say that Majesty was an awesome game! I played that when I was like 10 and had a great time.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As the Lead Designer of the PC game Majesty explained to me the technical term is called " Dead Time .
" If the player is \ _bored \ _ , you hav \ _failed \ _ as a game designer.I do n't agree with your opinion , I think that the transportation system in WoW does a good job of making one feel immersed in the world , but I just wanted to say that Majesty was an awesome game !
I played that when I was like 10 and had a great time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As the Lead Designer of the PC game Majesty explained to me the technical term is called "Dead Time.
" If the player is \_bored\_, you hav \_failed\_ as a game designer.I don't agree with your opinion, I think that the transportation system in WoW does a good job of making one feel immersed in the world, 
but I just wanted to say that Majesty was an awesome game!
I played that when I was like 10 and had a great time.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28513805</id>
	<title>Second Life makes it easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246289280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since it's not a time-sink game where everything has to be "earned" and a struggle to acquire those "skills", everyone in Second Life can instantly teleport anywhere on the google maps-type game map.   you can share teleports, save landmarks for a quick return later, fly like Superman using pageup/pagedown keys, or buy any number of funky vehicles.</p><p>Travel is easy in Second Life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since it 's not a time-sink game where everything has to be " earned " and a struggle to acquire those " skills " , everyone in Second Life can instantly teleport anywhere on the google maps-type game map .
you can share teleports , save landmarks for a quick return later , fly like Superman using pageup/pagedown keys , or buy any number of funky vehicles.Travel is easy in Second Life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since it's not a time-sink game where everything has to be "earned" and a struggle to acquire those "skills", everyone in Second Life can instantly teleport anywhere on the google maps-type game map.
you can share teleports, save landmarks for a quick return later, fly like Superman using pageup/pagedown keys, or buy any number of funky vehicles.Travel is easy in Second Life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506515</id>
	<title>Re:Guilds Wars method</title>
	<author>WeblionX</author>
	<datestamp>1246222740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tabula Rasa had something similar to this, where you had way points that you could acquire once you got to a region. There was wormholes for traveling between planets (But not as many as way points, so you still had to do some way point hopping). And you could buy personal way points so if you were in the middle of nowhere and needed to get back to a fort, you could just drop one and teleport back.</p><p>Overall it was a pretty good system, but there were still occasionally areas that required a bit of trekking, though generally only a few minutes at most.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tabula Rasa had something similar to this , where you had way points that you could acquire once you got to a region .
There was wormholes for traveling between planets ( But not as many as way points , so you still had to do some way point hopping ) .
And you could buy personal way points so if you were in the middle of nowhere and needed to get back to a fort , you could just drop one and teleport back.Overall it was a pretty good system , but there were still occasionally areas that required a bit of trekking , though generally only a few minutes at most .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tabula Rasa had something similar to this, where you had way points that you could acquire once you got to a region.
There was wormholes for traveling between planets (But not as many as way points, so you still had to do some way point hopping).
And you could buy personal way points so if you were in the middle of nowhere and needed to get back to a fort, you could just drop one and teleport back.Overall it was a pretty good system, but there were still occasionally areas that required a bit of trekking, though generally only a few minutes at most.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502603</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28513057</id>
	<title>Is this really that big of a deal?</title>
	<author>RsJtSu</author>
	<datestamp>1246284600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll bet that everyone who is complaining about the travel times in WoW (Its what I use to play) is at max level. And I will agree with you that once you have "completed" a certain area you should be able to breeze through it.<p>

I tried out AoC and their travel paths were MUCH more tedious than WoWs. I believe they changed it, but originally you had to run through lowbie world zones to reach the higher level zones. Now, here is the huge problem with that. Lowbie characters would hide, losing them playing time because a high level was running past, and high level players would be bored senseless from all the requests to "help out" for the 15 mins it took to get through the zone.
</p><p>
My only gripe about WoWs travel is that I thought that multizone flight paths should be instant. I always hated when you had to go from Booty Bay to The Hinterlands or Hillsbrad Foothills and the flight took 25 mins.
</p><p>
But! The good news is that WoW did change the flight paths from their original design in that you had to fly to each point and then hop back on the gryphon which was extremely tedious.
</p><p>
I do agree that travel is a pain to deal with, but I remember first playing the game and thinking how amazing the world looked and how vast it seemed. With instant travel it would lose some of that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll bet that everyone who is complaining about the travel times in WoW ( Its what I use to play ) is at max level .
And I will agree with you that once you have " completed " a certain area you should be able to breeze through it .
I tried out AoC and their travel paths were MUCH more tedious than WoWs .
I believe they changed it , but originally you had to run through lowbie world zones to reach the higher level zones .
Now , here is the huge problem with that .
Lowbie characters would hide , losing them playing time because a high level was running past , and high level players would be bored senseless from all the requests to " help out " for the 15 mins it took to get through the zone .
My only gripe about WoWs travel is that I thought that multizone flight paths should be instant .
I always hated when you had to go from Booty Bay to The Hinterlands or Hillsbrad Foothills and the flight took 25 mins .
But ! The good news is that WoW did change the flight paths from their original design in that you had to fly to each point and then hop back on the gryphon which was extremely tedious .
I do agree that travel is a pain to deal with , but I remember first playing the game and thinking how amazing the world looked and how vast it seemed .
With instant travel it would lose some of that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll bet that everyone who is complaining about the travel times in WoW (Its what I use to play) is at max level.
And I will agree with you that once you have "completed" a certain area you should be able to breeze through it.
I tried out AoC and their travel paths were MUCH more tedious than WoWs.
I believe they changed it, but originally you had to run through lowbie world zones to reach the higher level zones.
Now, here is the huge problem with that.
Lowbie characters would hide, losing them playing time because a high level was running past, and high level players would be bored senseless from all the requests to "help out" for the 15 mins it took to get through the zone.
My only gripe about WoWs travel is that I thought that multizone flight paths should be instant.
I always hated when you had to go from Booty Bay to The Hinterlands or Hillsbrad Foothills and the flight took 25 mins.
But! The good news is that WoW did change the flight paths from their original design in that you had to fly to each point and then hop back on the gryphon which was extremely tedious.
I do agree that travel is a pain to deal with, but I remember first playing the game and thinking how amazing the world looked and how vast it seemed.
With instant travel it would lose some of that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502497</id>
	<title>Gee, I wonder why...</title>
	<author>plutoXL</author>
	<datestamp>1246190940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I don't need to spend half an hour of my time that I've allocated for playing games trudging at whatever stupidly slow speed a game's decided to impose upon me. There is no good reason, whatsoever, to not just let me be there.</p></div><p>
You are paying, let's say, $15 per month for the privilege of playing a game?
<br>
Gee, I wonder why the game designers would want to make you spend more time playing their game...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't need to spend half an hour of my time that I 've allocated for playing games trudging at whatever stupidly slow speed a game 's decided to impose upon me .
There is no good reason , whatsoever , to not just let me be there .
You are paying , let 's say , $ 15 per month for the privilege of playing a game ?
Gee , I wonder why the game designers would want to make you spend more time playing their game.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't need to spend half an hour of my time that I've allocated for playing games trudging at whatever stupidly slow speed a game's decided to impose upon me.
There is no good reason, whatsoever, to not just let me be there.
You are paying, let's say, $15 per month for the privilege of playing a game?
Gee, I wonder why the game designers would want to make you spend more time playing their game...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502413</id>
	<title>Automated transportation</title>
	<author>loufoque</author>
	<datestamp>1246189920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A better alternative would be automated transportation.<br>You tell the game you want to go to X, and your character starts moving to X on its own and is there 30 minutes later (or whatever time it takes to get there), without requiring your input.</p><p>However, since games like world of warcraft are strongly against bots of any kind, it's not likely to come.<br>I say allowing players to run arbitrary bots to automate what can be automated would make MMORPGs much better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A better alternative would be automated transportation.You tell the game you want to go to X , and your character starts moving to X on its own and is there 30 minutes later ( or whatever time it takes to get there ) , without requiring your input.However , since games like world of warcraft are strongly against bots of any kind , it 's not likely to come.I say allowing players to run arbitrary bots to automate what can be automated would make MMORPGs much better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A better alternative would be automated transportation.You tell the game you want to go to X, and your character starts moving to X on its own and is there 30 minutes later (or whatever time it takes to get there), without requiring your input.However, since games like world of warcraft are strongly against bots of any kind, it's not likely to come.I say allowing players to run arbitrary bots to automate what can be automated would make MMORPGs much better.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28508119</id>
	<title>Re:Automated transportation</title>
	<author>StuartHankins</author>
	<datestamp>1246193760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yep. One reason I quit playing was the 3- and 4-ppl multiboxing going on. Give them their own realm or whatever.. it's pointless for those of us who are using a single toon to play the game in the way it was designed to try and compete. You can't farm if they're around; you can't level (because they're busy killing everything -- much faster than any single toon can). You can't beat them at arenas, when they have 4 shammies hitting for 10k a pop you go down in a couple of hits.<br> <br>In my experience Blizz really screwed up when they allowed multiboxing, whether it's against the rules or not it still sucks... mix multiboxing with the readily available "click the mouse to cast a spell" macros and you have just a lazy kid on the other end clicking a button to win. It would be like me going to a kids' fair and constantly ringing the bell at the sledgehammer booth... pointless.<br> <br>Towards the end of my time on WOW, I noticed some guilds were farming in larger groups, presumably to offset the advantage that the multiboxers enjoyed. It really screwed up the economy too, where certain items became almost worthless because they could be farmed so easily (primals, but I quit between BC and LK). It was too bad, I spent many many nights on there for such a long time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep .
One reason I quit playing was the 3- and 4-ppl multiboxing going on .
Give them their own realm or whatever.. it 's pointless for those of us who are using a single toon to play the game in the way it was designed to try and compete .
You ca n't farm if they 're around ; you ca n't level ( because they 're busy killing everything -- much faster than any single toon can ) .
You ca n't beat them at arenas , when they have 4 shammies hitting for 10k a pop you go down in a couple of hits .
In my experience Blizz really screwed up when they allowed multiboxing , whether it 's against the rules or not it still sucks... mix multiboxing with the readily available " click the mouse to cast a spell " macros and you have just a lazy kid on the other end clicking a button to win .
It would be like me going to a kids ' fair and constantly ringing the bell at the sledgehammer booth... pointless. Towards the end of my time on WOW , I noticed some guilds were farming in larger groups , presumably to offset the advantage that the multiboxers enjoyed .
It really screwed up the economy too , where certain items became almost worthless because they could be farmed so easily ( primals , but I quit between BC and LK ) .
It was too bad , I spent many many nights on there for such a long time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.
One reason I quit playing was the 3- and 4-ppl multiboxing going on.
Give them their own realm or whatever.. it's pointless for those of us who are using a single toon to play the game in the way it was designed to try and compete.
You can't farm if they're around; you can't level (because they're busy killing everything -- much faster than any single toon can).
You can't beat them at arenas, when they have 4 shammies hitting for 10k a pop you go down in a couple of hits.
In my experience Blizz really screwed up when they allowed multiboxing, whether it's against the rules or not it still sucks... mix multiboxing with the readily available "click the mouse to cast a spell" macros and you have just a lazy kid on the other end clicking a button to win.
It would be like me going to a kids' fair and constantly ringing the bell at the sledgehammer booth... pointless. Towards the end of my time on WOW, I noticed some guilds were farming in larger groups, presumably to offset the advantage that the multiboxers enjoyed.
It really screwed up the economy too, where certain items became almost worthless because they could be farmed so easily (primals, but I quit between BC and LK).
It was too bad, I spent many many nights on there for such a long time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502523</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28513575</id>
	<title>Pointless Article</title>
	<author>raijinsetsu</author>
	<datestamp>1246288260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Different strokes for different folks.<br> <br>
Some people like the large, expansive world where getting to the capital city feels like an accomplishment and revisiting lowbie areas is a chore that few undertake (think FFXI).<br> <br>
Others like instant travel to any place they've ever traveled before (GW).<br> <br>
And, still others, seek some sort of balance (WoW does a good job of this).<br> <br>
I hate to say it, but, if you don't like the game, don't play it. I've played each of the games I've mentioned and have stopped playing each in turn, but I cannot say that travel time had anything to do with it (although, that was pretty annoying in FFXI).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Different strokes for different folks .
Some people like the large , expansive world where getting to the capital city feels like an accomplishment and revisiting lowbie areas is a chore that few undertake ( think FFXI ) .
Others like instant travel to any place they 've ever traveled before ( GW ) .
And , still others , seek some sort of balance ( WoW does a good job of this ) .
I hate to say it , but , if you do n't like the game , do n't play it .
I 've played each of the games I 've mentioned and have stopped playing each in turn , but I can not say that travel time had anything to do with it ( although , that was pretty annoying in FFXI ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Different strokes for different folks.
Some people like the large, expansive world where getting to the capital city feels like an accomplishment and revisiting lowbie areas is a chore that few undertake (think FFXI).
Others like instant travel to any place they've ever traveled before (GW).
And, still others, seek some sort of balance (WoW does a good job of this).
I hate to say it, but, if you don't like the game, don't play it.
I've played each of the games I've mentioned and have stopped playing each in turn, but I cannot say that travel time had anything to do with it (although, that was pretty annoying in FFXI).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504687</id>
	<title>Re:Codswallop</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246210560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nonsense. Everquest really epitomized the concept of "time-sink" before the Planes of Power expansion. It could take HOURS to travel from one end of a continent to the other. As cool as this experience was the first time, it was a major waste of time every subsequent voyage. After the Planes of Power expansion, there were still plenty of places off the beaten path that could take upwards of an hour to run to, but to get to the main hubs, a quick journey and a teleport and you were minutes away from slaying dragons with your friends.

I will admit, for those who love exploration and the challenges it brings, fast travel ruins a good part of the experience. But IMHO, the mainstream MMO'er has more fun slaying hordes of Orcs (or stormtroopers for you SciFi freaks)  with friends than running lost around gigabytes of map data being wowed by mildly impressive graphics.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nonsense .
Everquest really epitomized the concept of " time-sink " before the Planes of Power expansion .
It could take HOURS to travel from one end of a continent to the other .
As cool as this experience was the first time , it was a major waste of time every subsequent voyage .
After the Planes of Power expansion , there were still plenty of places off the beaten path that could take upwards of an hour to run to , but to get to the main hubs , a quick journey and a teleport and you were minutes away from slaying dragons with your friends .
I will admit , for those who love exploration and the challenges it brings , fast travel ruins a good part of the experience .
But IMHO , the mainstream MMO'er has more fun slaying hordes of Orcs ( or stormtroopers for you SciFi freaks ) with friends than running lost around gigabytes of map data being wowed by mildly impressive graphics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nonsense.
Everquest really epitomized the concept of "time-sink" before the Planes of Power expansion.
It could take HOURS to travel from one end of a continent to the other.
As cool as this experience was the first time, it was a major waste of time every subsequent voyage.
After the Planes of Power expansion, there were still plenty of places off the beaten path that could take upwards of an hour to run to, but to get to the main hubs, a quick journey and a teleport and you were minutes away from slaying dragons with your friends.
I will admit, for those who love exploration and the challenges it brings, fast travel ruins a good part of the experience.
But IMHO, the mainstream MMO'er has more fun slaying hordes of Orcs (or stormtroopers for you SciFi freaks)  with friends than running lost around gigabytes of map data being wowed by mildly impressive graphics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502435</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504449</id>
	<title>Ultima Online Did a Good Job</title>
	<author>Greyfox</author>
	<datestamp>1246209120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A mage could create a recall rune to a location and it took no magical skill to use a scroll of recall to teleport to that rune's location. This introduced a great money-making tactic for mages -- I made a lot of gold in the game selling bags of runes. In the early days a pickpocket could nab your runes so you only kept a few on you and kept the rest in the bank, but every so often you'd need a few replaced as well. This also made work for scribes -- creating scrolls of recall also paid a lot of bills back then.
<p>
In WoW you need the 5-10 minute flights or you'd just never pee and die. Blizzard recognizes that their game is more addictive than crack and players dying from not peeing would cut into the bottom line.  That's why there's no instant travel in WoW even though they continue to dumb-down every other aspect of the game.
</p><p>
In EvE online, near as I can tell, they want to replicate the tedium of space travel. They've done a very good job of simulating what flying around in outer space would be like -- mostly just flying from one place to another with a few minutes of action every so often.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A mage could create a recall rune to a location and it took no magical skill to use a scroll of recall to teleport to that rune 's location .
This introduced a great money-making tactic for mages -- I made a lot of gold in the game selling bags of runes .
In the early days a pickpocket could nab your runes so you only kept a few on you and kept the rest in the bank , but every so often you 'd need a few replaced as well .
This also made work for scribes -- creating scrolls of recall also paid a lot of bills back then .
In WoW you need the 5-10 minute flights or you 'd just never pee and die .
Blizzard recognizes that their game is more addictive than crack and players dying from not peeing would cut into the bottom line .
That 's why there 's no instant travel in WoW even though they continue to dumb-down every other aspect of the game .
In EvE online , near as I can tell , they want to replicate the tedium of space travel .
They 've done a very good job of simulating what flying around in outer space would be like -- mostly just flying from one place to another with a few minutes of action every so often .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A mage could create a recall rune to a location and it took no magical skill to use a scroll of recall to teleport to that rune's location.
This introduced a great money-making tactic for mages -- I made a lot of gold in the game selling bags of runes.
In the early days a pickpocket could nab your runes so you only kept a few on you and kept the rest in the bank, but every so often you'd need a few replaced as well.
This also made work for scribes -- creating scrolls of recall also paid a lot of bills back then.
In WoW you need the 5-10 minute flights or you'd just never pee and die.
Blizzard recognizes that their game is more addictive than crack and players dying from not peeing would cut into the bottom line.
That's why there's no instant travel in WoW even though they continue to dumb-down every other aspect of the game.
In EvE online, near as I can tell, they want to replicate the tedium of space travel.
They've done a very good job of simulating what flying around in outer space would be like -- mostly just flying from one place to another with a few minutes of action every so often.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503709</id>
	<title>Time sink = subscription model + bad design</title>
	<author>Zaphod-AVA</author>
	<datestamp>1246203420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bad jobs motivate employees to do just enough work to not get fired. Bad subscription games will entertain you just enough to keep you from quitting.<br>As a recovered Everquest player, I've begun to follow what I call 'The 10 minute rule'. If I walk/run/do nothing for 10 minutes in a row in any game, I uninstall the game and throw it away. No second chances. I wait for reviews before I will invest in a game to avoid wasting my money.</p><p>Good game design keeps players playing with engaging content that is enjoyable to play through again and again. Bad game design creates some form of incentive to entice players to slog through boring content. Massively multiplayer game design doesn't *have* to waste our time, but it will continue to do so if you let it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bad jobs motivate employees to do just enough work to not get fired .
Bad subscription games will entertain you just enough to keep you from quitting.As a recovered Everquest player , I 've begun to follow what I call 'The 10 minute rule' .
If I walk/run/do nothing for 10 minutes in a row in any game , I uninstall the game and throw it away .
No second chances .
I wait for reviews before I will invest in a game to avoid wasting my money.Good game design keeps players playing with engaging content that is enjoyable to play through again and again .
Bad game design creates some form of incentive to entice players to slog through boring content .
Massively multiplayer game design does n't * have * to waste our time , but it will continue to do so if you let it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bad jobs motivate employees to do just enough work to not get fired.
Bad subscription games will entertain you just enough to keep you from quitting.As a recovered Everquest player, I've begun to follow what I call 'The 10 minute rule'.
If I walk/run/do nothing for 10 minutes in a row in any game, I uninstall the game and throw it away.
No second chances.
I wait for reviews before I will invest in a game to avoid wasting my money.Good game design keeps players playing with engaging content that is enjoyable to play through again and again.
Bad game design creates some form of incentive to entice players to slog through boring content.
Massively multiplayer game design doesn't *have* to waste our time, but it will continue to do so if you let it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507553</id>
	<title>at most 15min?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246188240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are people seriously saying that 15min of doing nothing in a game is not that bad?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are people seriously saying that 15min of doing nothing in a game is not that bad ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are people seriously saying that 15min of doing nothing in a game is not that bad?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503191</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>thesandtiger</author>
	<datestamp>1246199220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Ive actually quit WoW over lack of instant movement. Waiting 30 minutes for group to ssemble is not fun, neither well spent time. When you spend more time afking game and reding book while you wait for someone than playing, something is very wrong<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</i></p><p>In WoW there are at least 2 options for getting other players to a dungeon virtually instantly - the meeting stones (requires 2 players be there already) and warlock teleporting (requires 3 players be at the desired location). If you're at a level where you're doing content that doesn't have a meeting stone (raids, pretty much) you are going to have the ability to travel to any location in the world in much less than 30 minutes, at most about 10 minutes, and that would be the most extreme possible case I can think of. The *only* time there is a longer trip involved is when you're first exploring an area with a given character. If you don't have the flight paths connecting one point to another, then prepare for World of Walking - but at the level where you're still getting flight paths it isn't like you're raiding or doing dungeons much, so waiting for people for a raid isn't happening.</p><p>People take so long to get to instances and raids not because of travel times, but because they are doing other things before the raid, like selling stuff, repairing, getting potions etc. ready for the raid, chatting, whatever. If travel time were the real determinant of how long it takes to get a raid together, the wait times would be down to 10 minutes, 15 minutes tops.</p><p>Further, WoW has done quite a bit to change the way you have to travel:</p><p>Original WoW had mounts that you could get at level 40 that would boost your speed by 60\% for 100 gold (a decent amount of money back then) and 1000 gold at level 60 (the maximum level) would get you 100\% movement speed increase. You could boost that another 2-3\% by getting a trinket that would speed you up.</p><p>Then they added the Burning Crusade expansion with flying mounts. The level 40 mounts dropped to 60 (I think?) gold, the level 60 mounts dropped to 640 (I think?) gold, and the flying mounts were now 1000 gold for the riding skill (easy to get along the way to level 70) for a 60\% speed flying mount and 5000 gold (about as hard to get as the old 1000g mount) for a 280\% speed increase - as fast as the flighpaths, but quicker because you could do this point to point kind of travel rather than take the long way with flight paths that swooped around. You could boost those numbers by 10\% or so by getting new trinkets.</p><p>In addition, they added Shattrath which has portals in it to every major city in the game. You could set your hearthstone to Shattrath and teleport to either continent in the old world (and close to other travel options) instantly.</p><p>Then they added Wrath of the Lich King. The level 40 mounts now unlock at level 30. There's a new city - Dalaran - that has a set of portals to all major cities. Cooldowns on hearth stones and other similar abilities were reduced to 30 minutes from an hour. 5000g for the VERY fast flying mounts is now pretty easy to get.</p><p>It isn't instant travel, but it's not 30 minutes, either. And if you're really impatient to get around, roll a mage or deathknight. Mages can teleport to many places in the world inside of 10 seconds, and deathknights have special abilities that make their mounted speed quite a bit faster than usual - it feels pretty peppy.</p><p>Guild Wars also uses a different model from WoW. They actually make more money if you buy the game and then stop playing because it's a pay once (and pay for expansions) kind of thing. WoW is a pay per month set up. Guild Wars doesn't really require timesinks for their business model in the same way WoW does. I think WoW does a pretty good job of varying the timesinks and even making them a little more entertaining (the people on boats can be fun to talk to; flying under your own control you can find interesting places) all things considered - and certainly the rest of the game is more than fun enough (for people who still play) to compensate for the travel stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ive actually quit WoW over lack of instant movement .
Waiting 30 minutes for group to ssemble is not fun , neither well spent time .
When you spend more time afking game and reding book while you wait for someone than playing , something is very wrong ...In WoW there are at least 2 options for getting other players to a dungeon virtually instantly - the meeting stones ( requires 2 players be there already ) and warlock teleporting ( requires 3 players be at the desired location ) .
If you 're at a level where you 're doing content that does n't have a meeting stone ( raids , pretty much ) you are going to have the ability to travel to any location in the world in much less than 30 minutes , at most about 10 minutes , and that would be the most extreme possible case I can think of .
The * only * time there is a longer trip involved is when you 're first exploring an area with a given character .
If you do n't have the flight paths connecting one point to another , then prepare for World of Walking - but at the level where you 're still getting flight paths it is n't like you 're raiding or doing dungeons much , so waiting for people for a raid is n't happening.People take so long to get to instances and raids not because of travel times , but because they are doing other things before the raid , like selling stuff , repairing , getting potions etc .
ready for the raid , chatting , whatever .
If travel time were the real determinant of how long it takes to get a raid together , the wait times would be down to 10 minutes , 15 minutes tops.Further , WoW has done quite a bit to change the way you have to travel : Original WoW had mounts that you could get at level 40 that would boost your speed by 60 \ % for 100 gold ( a decent amount of money back then ) and 1000 gold at level 60 ( the maximum level ) would get you 100 \ % movement speed increase .
You could boost that another 2-3 \ % by getting a trinket that would speed you up.Then they added the Burning Crusade expansion with flying mounts .
The level 40 mounts dropped to 60 ( I think ?
) gold , the level 60 mounts dropped to 640 ( I think ?
) gold , and the flying mounts were now 1000 gold for the riding skill ( easy to get along the way to level 70 ) for a 60 \ % speed flying mount and 5000 gold ( about as hard to get as the old 1000g mount ) for a 280 \ % speed increase - as fast as the flighpaths , but quicker because you could do this point to point kind of travel rather than take the long way with flight paths that swooped around .
You could boost those numbers by 10 \ % or so by getting new trinkets.In addition , they added Shattrath which has portals in it to every major city in the game .
You could set your hearthstone to Shattrath and teleport to either continent in the old world ( and close to other travel options ) instantly.Then they added Wrath of the Lich King .
The level 40 mounts now unlock at level 30 .
There 's a new city - Dalaran - that has a set of portals to all major cities .
Cooldowns on hearth stones and other similar abilities were reduced to 30 minutes from an hour .
5000g for the VERY fast flying mounts is now pretty easy to get.It is n't instant travel , but it 's not 30 minutes , either .
And if you 're really impatient to get around , roll a mage or deathknight .
Mages can teleport to many places in the world inside of 10 seconds , and deathknights have special abilities that make their mounted speed quite a bit faster than usual - it feels pretty peppy.Guild Wars also uses a different model from WoW .
They actually make more money if you buy the game and then stop playing because it 's a pay once ( and pay for expansions ) kind of thing .
WoW is a pay per month set up .
Guild Wars does n't really require timesinks for their business model in the same way WoW does .
I think WoW does a pretty good job of varying the timesinks and even making them a little more entertaining ( the people on boats can be fun to talk to ; flying under your own control you can find interesting places ) all things considered - and certainly the rest of the game is more than fun enough ( for people who still play ) to compensate for the travel stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ive actually quit WoW over lack of instant movement.
Waiting 30 minutes for group to ssemble is not fun, neither well spent time.
When you spend more time afking game and reding book while you wait for someone than playing, something is very wrong ...In WoW there are at least 2 options for getting other players to a dungeon virtually instantly - the meeting stones (requires 2 players be there already) and warlock teleporting (requires 3 players be at the desired location).
If you're at a level where you're doing content that doesn't have a meeting stone (raids, pretty much) you are going to have the ability to travel to any location in the world in much less than 30 minutes, at most about 10 minutes, and that would be the most extreme possible case I can think of.
The *only* time there is a longer trip involved is when you're first exploring an area with a given character.
If you don't have the flight paths connecting one point to another, then prepare for World of Walking - but at the level where you're still getting flight paths it isn't like you're raiding or doing dungeons much, so waiting for people for a raid isn't happening.People take so long to get to instances and raids not because of travel times, but because they are doing other things before the raid, like selling stuff, repairing, getting potions etc.
ready for the raid, chatting, whatever.
If travel time were the real determinant of how long it takes to get a raid together, the wait times would be down to 10 minutes, 15 minutes tops.Further, WoW has done quite a bit to change the way you have to travel:Original WoW had mounts that you could get at level 40 that would boost your speed by 60\% for 100 gold (a decent amount of money back then) and 1000 gold at level 60 (the maximum level) would get you 100\% movement speed increase.
You could boost that another 2-3\% by getting a trinket that would speed you up.Then they added the Burning Crusade expansion with flying mounts.
The level 40 mounts dropped to 60 (I think?
) gold, the level 60 mounts dropped to 640 (I think?
) gold, and the flying mounts were now 1000 gold for the riding skill (easy to get along the way to level 70) for a 60\% speed flying mount and 5000 gold (about as hard to get as the old 1000g mount) for a 280\% speed increase - as fast as the flighpaths, but quicker because you could do this point to point kind of travel rather than take the long way with flight paths that swooped around.
You could boost those numbers by 10\% or so by getting new trinkets.In addition, they added Shattrath which has portals in it to every major city in the game.
You could set your hearthstone to Shattrath and teleport to either continent in the old world (and close to other travel options) instantly.Then they added Wrath of the Lich King.
The level 40 mounts now unlock at level 30.
There's a new city - Dalaran - that has a set of portals to all major cities.
Cooldowns on hearth stones and other similar abilities were reduced to 30 minutes from an hour.
5000g for the VERY fast flying mounts is now pretty easy to get.It isn't instant travel, but it's not 30 minutes, either.
And if you're really impatient to get around, roll a mage or deathknight.
Mages can teleport to many places in the world inside of 10 seconds, and deathknights have special abilities that make their mounted speed quite a bit faster than usual - it feels pretty peppy.Guild Wars also uses a different model from WoW.
They actually make more money if you buy the game and then stop playing because it's a pay once (and pay for expansions) kind of thing.
WoW is a pay per month set up.
Guild Wars doesn't really require timesinks for their business model in the same way WoW does.
I think WoW does a pretty good job of varying the timesinks and even making them a little more entertaining (the people on boats can be fun to talk to; flying under your own control you can find interesting places) all things considered - and certainly the rest of the game is more than fun enough (for people who still play) to compensate for the travel stuff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505847</id>
	<title>Anarchy Online anyone?</title>
	<author>Subverted</author>
	<datestamp>1246217760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is why I liked Anarchy Online. Good selection of vehicles, the whompahs, and the grid/fixer grid... All great methods of transportation, and some are completely available to lower levels...

Too bad much of the rest of the game sucked.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is why I liked Anarchy Online .
Good selection of vehicles , the whompahs , and the grid/fixer grid... All great methods of transportation , and some are completely available to lower levels.. . Too bad much of the rest of the game sucked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is why I liked Anarchy Online.
Good selection of vehicles, the whompahs, and the grid/fixer grid... All great methods of transportation, and some are completely available to lower levels...

Too bad much of the rest of the game sucked.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503757</id>
	<title>Re:Codswallop</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246204020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I remember walking from Neriak to Queynos.  It was a fun trip that took several hours; mostly because I entered that...  The forest with ridiculously high level undead at night - Kithicor was it?, and then had to stealth my way through...  Was it High Pass?</p><p>As a Tier'dal cleric.</p><p>We're not exactly known for our stealth.  Just our sweet curves and violent bashing to death of asslings, err, I mean, halflings.</p><p>Aaanyway...   I had one of the most beautiful scenes in gaming: walking down that huge ramp leading into the plains of Karana while the sun was coming up.   Gorgeous.  Made the whole waste-of-a-night worth it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...Then I got invited to a group and said, "Screw this.  WTB port, paying 20pp."</p><p>Walking is for chumps.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:p</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember walking from Neriak to Queynos .
It was a fun trip that took several hours ; mostly because I entered that... The forest with ridiculously high level undead at night - Kithicor was it ? , and then had to stealth my way through... Was it High Pass ? As a Tier'dal cleric.We 're not exactly known for our stealth .
Just our sweet curves and violent bashing to death of asslings , err , I mean , halflings.Aaanyway... I had one of the most beautiful scenes in gaming : walking down that huge ramp leading into the plains of Karana while the sun was coming up .
Gorgeous. Made the whole waste-of-a-night worth it .
...Then I got invited to a group and said , " Screw this .
WTB port , paying 20pp .
" Walking is for chumps .
: p</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember walking from Neriak to Queynos.
It was a fun trip that took several hours; mostly because I entered that...  The forest with ridiculously high level undead at night - Kithicor was it?, and then had to stealth my way through...  Was it High Pass?As a Tier'dal cleric.We're not exactly known for our stealth.
Just our sweet curves and violent bashing to death of asslings, err, I mean, halflings.Aaanyway...   I had one of the most beautiful scenes in gaming: walking down that huge ramp leading into the plains of Karana while the sun was coming up.
Gorgeous.  Made the whole waste-of-a-night worth it.
...Then I got invited to a group and said, "Screw this.
WTB port, paying 20pp.
"Walking is for chumps.
:p</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502435</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503149</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246198860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have never been as pissed off with WoW travel as other people seem to be. Maybe its because I am older than a lot of players, but it seems to me that it helps pace the game properly. It is a big world, and flight paths help maintain that impression.</p></div><p>I agree.  In TBC they introduced portal rooms which allow teleportation to any capitol city.  With WotLK they removed barriers between alliance capitols in the old world.  Very recently they changed the cooldown on the hearthstone (and the associated Kirin Tor trinket) to 30 minutes.</p><p>While there is some convenience involved, it used to be more fun planning your strategy around how to minimize your travel times.</p><p>It's very much a mixed bag.</p><p>I thought I was a slow, methodical player until I went after the Explorer achivement and was amazed at how truly big the World of Warcraft truly was, or appeared to be.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have never been as pissed off with WoW travel as other people seem to be .
Maybe its because I am older than a lot of players , but it seems to me that it helps pace the game properly .
It is a big world , and flight paths help maintain that impression.I agree .
In TBC they introduced portal rooms which allow teleportation to any capitol city .
With WotLK they removed barriers between alliance capitols in the old world .
Very recently they changed the cooldown on the hearthstone ( and the associated Kirin Tor trinket ) to 30 minutes.While there is some convenience involved , it used to be more fun planning your strategy around how to minimize your travel times.It 's very much a mixed bag.I thought I was a slow , methodical player until I went after the Explorer achivement and was amazed at how truly big the World of Warcraft truly was , or appeared to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have never been as pissed off with WoW travel as other people seem to be.
Maybe its because I am older than a lot of players, but it seems to me that it helps pace the game properly.
It is a big world, and flight paths help maintain that impression.I agree.
In TBC they introduced portal rooms which allow teleportation to any capitol city.
With WotLK they removed barriers between alliance capitols in the old world.
Very recently they changed the cooldown on the hearthstone (and the associated Kirin Tor trinket) to 30 minutes.While there is some convenience involved, it used to be more fun planning your strategy around how to minimize your travel times.It's very much a mixed bag.I thought I was a slow, methodical player until I went after the Explorer achivement and was amazed at how truly big the World of Warcraft truly was, or appeared to be.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502833</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246195440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except the same can be applied to non-online RPGs too.</p><p>The auto-travel-from-anywhere stuff was one of the factors that made Oblivion so much less immersive than Morrowind.  In essence it made you feel more like a god, and less like part of the world, and in games like that being part of the world is important, and if you can get yourself to a godly like state (flying across the land, being able to challenge anything in your path) it makes your character feel bigger, and more important.  Just being able to go from a to b, instantly, kills that stone dead.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except the same can be applied to non-online RPGs too.The auto-travel-from-anywhere stuff was one of the factors that made Oblivion so much less immersive than Morrowind .
In essence it made you feel more like a god , and less like part of the world , and in games like that being part of the world is important , and if you can get yourself to a godly like state ( flying across the land , being able to challenge anything in your path ) it makes your character feel bigger , and more important .
Just being able to go from a to b , instantly , kills that stone dead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except the same can be applied to non-online RPGs too.The auto-travel-from-anywhere stuff was one of the factors that made Oblivion so much less immersive than Morrowind.
In essence it made you feel more like a god, and less like part of the world, and in games like that being part of the world is important, and if you can get yourself to a godly like state (flying across the land, being able to challenge anything in your path) it makes your character feel bigger, and more important.
Just being able to go from a to b, instantly, kills that stone dead.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506107</id>
	<title>Re:Why doesn't real life allow easier transportati</title>
	<author>genner</author>
	<datestamp>1246219620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If I have visited New York, I should be able to teleport there or get their quicker than a 8 hour flight with out a stop in Atlanta first.</p></div><p>If we had the technology then yes......yes you should.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I have visited New York , I should be able to teleport there or get their quicker than a 8 hour flight with out a stop in Atlanta first.If we had the technology then yes......yes you should .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I have visited New York, I should be able to teleport there or get their quicker than a 8 hour flight with out a stop in Atlanta first.If we had the technology then yes......yes you should.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502911</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502911</id>
	<title>Why doesn't real life allow easier transportation?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246196100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I have visited New York, I should be able to teleport there or get their quicker than a 8 hour flight with out a stop in Atlanta first.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I have visited New York , I should be able to teleport there or get their quicker than a 8 hour flight with out a stop in Atlanta first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I have visited New York, I should be able to teleport there or get their quicker than a 8 hour flight with out a stop in Atlanta first.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28507519</id>
	<title>Because everyone wants huge worlds... once</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246188000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everyone who plays an MMO seems to want the developers to spend months of time developing a huge, intricate world full of easter eggs that they can discover once.  Then, everyone wants to get from point A to point B as fast as possible.</p><p>Take a game like Dungeons and Dragons Online.  You scarcely had to run anywhere.  Everywhere you needed to be was a few steps away through an instance portal.  Anyone who played it complained it was "claustrophobic", even though those same people would have complained just as much if they'd had to run ten minutes across a huge landscape to get anywhere.</p><p>In short, players are idiots who want to have it all ways.  Personally, I'd like to see less time wasted making continents full of pretty trees and more time spent on game balancing and bug fixing.  I'm sick of the new expansion = new explorable area model.  There's tons of unused real estate out there that nobody ever looks at.  Develop some of it.  Make the world dense and interesting!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone who plays an MMO seems to want the developers to spend months of time developing a huge , intricate world full of easter eggs that they can discover once .
Then , everyone wants to get from point A to point B as fast as possible.Take a game like Dungeons and Dragons Online .
You scarcely had to run anywhere .
Everywhere you needed to be was a few steps away through an instance portal .
Anyone who played it complained it was " claustrophobic " , even though those same people would have complained just as much if they 'd had to run ten minutes across a huge landscape to get anywhere.In short , players are idiots who want to have it all ways .
Personally , I 'd like to see less time wasted making continents full of pretty trees and more time spent on game balancing and bug fixing .
I 'm sick of the new expansion = new explorable area model .
There 's tons of unused real estate out there that nobody ever looks at .
Develop some of it .
Make the world dense and interesting !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone who plays an MMO seems to want the developers to spend months of time developing a huge, intricate world full of easter eggs that they can discover once.
Then, everyone wants to get from point A to point B as fast as possible.Take a game like Dungeons and Dragons Online.
You scarcely had to run anywhere.
Everywhere you needed to be was a few steps away through an instance portal.
Anyone who played it complained it was "claustrophobic", even though those same people would have complained just as much if they'd had to run ten minutes across a huge landscape to get anywhere.In short, players are idiots who want to have it all ways.
Personally, I'd like to see less time wasted making continents full of pretty trees and more time spent on game balancing and bug fixing.
I'm sick of the new expansion = new explorable area model.
There's tons of unused real estate out there that nobody ever looks at.
Develop some of it.
Make the world dense and interesting!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28514951</id>
	<title>Re:Or, the alternative...</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1246294680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Right, which makes Eve boring for a lot of people because you are just flying around patrolling instead of actually fighting things. It is pretty much the shining example of convincing people something boring and grindy is fun.  No really, it is. *cough*</htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , which makes Eve boring for a lot of people because you are just flying around patrolling instead of actually fighting things .
It is pretty much the shining example of convincing people something boring and grindy is fun .
No really , it is .
* cough *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, which makes Eve boring for a lot of people because you are just flying around patrolling instead of actually fighting things.
It is pretty much the shining example of convincing people something boring and grindy is fun.
No really, it is.
*cough*</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28503981</id>
	<title>The answer is, unsurprisingly ...</title>
	<author>Lazy Jones</author>
	<datestamp>1246205700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>... the way it's done in WoW is as close to perfection as it can get. There has to be a trade-off between reducing the boring travel times and making the world feel big enough and the guys at Blizzard have really got it right.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... the way it 's done in WoW is as close to perfection as it can get .
There has to be a trade-off between reducing the boring travel times and making the world feel big enough and the guys at Blizzard have really got it right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... the way it's done in WoW is as close to perfection as it can get.
There has to be a trade-off between reducing the boring travel times and making the world feel big enough and the guys at Blizzard have really got it right.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502695</id>
	<title>Guild Wars - WoW Lite</title>
	<author>TheLink</author>
	<datestamp>1246193520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Small is not a bad thing.<br><br>With Guild Wars, you have to run/walk/fight to new cities/towns first (or get someone to "run" you there - e.g. do all the hardwork while you just tag along). After that, you can teleport to that town or any other town you have been before.<br><br>It's a \_chore\_ having to keep running to places you've been before.<br><br>Like "same old" cutscenes you can't skip, but must keep pressing "Next" (to kill anything that gets in your way) till you finally reach the real destination (the actual battle).<br><br>Being able to teleport straight to places you've been before is a good thing. I don't care if the world feels small in that way - as long as it's diverse enough.<br><br>It's like being in a small shop with a huge variety of products, and a different product on every inch of the shelves that you can choose if you like. Compared to being in a huge hypermarket with shelves and shelves of the \_same\_ items, so you need to walk about a lot more to get to the stuff you want.<br><br>Guild Wars is a bit like WoW Lite in some ways. So a lot of ppl won't like it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Small is not a bad thing.With Guild Wars , you have to run/walk/fight to new cities/towns first ( or get someone to " run " you there - e.g .
do all the hardwork while you just tag along ) .
After that , you can teleport to that town or any other town you have been before.It 's a \ _chore \ _ having to keep running to places you 've been before.Like " same old " cutscenes you ca n't skip , but must keep pressing " Next " ( to kill anything that gets in your way ) till you finally reach the real destination ( the actual battle ) .Being able to teleport straight to places you 've been before is a good thing .
I do n't care if the world feels small in that way - as long as it 's diverse enough.It 's like being in a small shop with a huge variety of products , and a different product on every inch of the shelves that you can choose if you like .
Compared to being in a huge hypermarket with shelves and shelves of the \ _same \ _ items , so you need to walk about a lot more to get to the stuff you want.Guild Wars is a bit like WoW Lite in some ways .
So a lot of ppl wo n't like it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Small is not a bad thing.With Guild Wars, you have to run/walk/fight to new cities/towns first (or get someone to "run" you there - e.g.
do all the hardwork while you just tag along).
After that, you can teleport to that town or any other town you have been before.It's a \_chore\_ having to keep running to places you've been before.Like "same old" cutscenes you can't skip, but must keep pressing "Next" (to kill anything that gets in your way) till you finally reach the real destination (the actual battle).Being able to teleport straight to places you've been before is a good thing.
I don't care if the world feels small in that way - as long as it's diverse enough.It's like being in a small shop with a huge variety of products, and a different product on every inch of the shelves that you can choose if you like.
Compared to being in a huge hypermarket with shelves and shelves of the \_same\_ items, so you need to walk about a lot more to get to the stuff you want.Guild Wars is a bit like WoW Lite in some ways.
So a lot of ppl won't like it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28511679</id>
	<title>Re:No, the technical term is "Dead Time"</title>
	<author>Some Bitch</author>
	<datestamp>1246272660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why would you <b>pay to wait???</b> </p><p>As the Lead Designer of the PC game <i>Majesty</i> explained to me the technical term is called "<b>Dead Time.</b>"</p></div><p>It's recommended that you get up and walk about for 5 minutes every hour, WoW flight paths encourage this as people go grab a drink and whatnot during the flight.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would you pay to wait ? ? ?
As the Lead Designer of the PC game Majesty explained to me the technical term is called " Dead Time .
" It 's recommended that you get up and walk about for 5 minutes every hour , WoW flight paths encourage this as people go grab a drink and whatnot during the flight .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would you pay to wait???
As the Lead Designer of the PC game Majesty explained to me the technical term is called "Dead Time.
"It's recommended that you get up and walk about for 5 minutes every hour, WoW flight paths encourage this as people go grab a drink and whatnot during the flight.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502537</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Venerable Vegetable</author>
	<datestamp>1246191420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Parent post is the obvious and correct answer. Next question please. I know that insulting people isn't a good way to conduct an argument but if you ask this question and can't even come up with this answer yourself (yes I rtfa) you're an idiot.</p><p>And for the "it's a game, not work", this is such a ridiculous argument which translates to:<br>"It should be exactly like I want it to be even though it's a MM(ultiplayer)O game. It doesn't matter at all what other people like, in fact I won't even consider thinking about it because they're all there to screw me over anyway. I want instant gratification because that's the only way I can be entertained.</p><p>Anyway, I used to play Everquest (a lot) and one of the biggest disappointments was when they introduced the city portals.<br>When I first started playing (as an ogre) traveling from the Oggok (ogre city) to Neriak (dark elves) was quite a trip, which I had to prepare for and I had to be constantly alert so I wouldn't die (those damn madmen and sand giants).<br>Not to mention traveling to for example Ak'Anon or Erudin, for which trip you actually needed to sneak through human controlled cities to take a ship.<br>That was awesome to me. I can understand that it's not fun for everyone but when discussing these features at least consider this!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Parent post is the obvious and correct answer .
Next question please .
I know that insulting people is n't a good way to conduct an argument but if you ask this question and ca n't even come up with this answer yourself ( yes I rtfa ) you 're an idiot.And for the " it 's a game , not work " , this is such a ridiculous argument which translates to : " It should be exactly like I want it to be even though it 's a MM ( ultiplayer ) O game .
It does n't matter at all what other people like , in fact I wo n't even consider thinking about it because they 're all there to screw me over anyway .
I want instant gratification because that 's the only way I can be entertained.Anyway , I used to play Everquest ( a lot ) and one of the biggest disappointments was when they introduced the city portals.When I first started playing ( as an ogre ) traveling from the Oggok ( ogre city ) to Neriak ( dark elves ) was quite a trip , which I had to prepare for and I had to be constantly alert so I would n't die ( those damn madmen and sand giants ) .Not to mention traveling to for example Ak'Anon or Erudin , for which trip you actually needed to sneak through human controlled cities to take a ship.That was awesome to me .
I can understand that it 's not fun for everyone but when discussing these features at least consider this !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Parent post is the obvious and correct answer.
Next question please.
I know that insulting people isn't a good way to conduct an argument but if you ask this question and can't even come up with this answer yourself (yes I rtfa) you're an idiot.And for the "it's a game, not work", this is such a ridiculous argument which translates to:"It should be exactly like I want it to be even though it's a MM(ultiplayer)O game.
It doesn't matter at all what other people like, in fact I won't even consider thinking about it because they're all there to screw me over anyway.
I want instant gratification because that's the only way I can be entertained.Anyway, I used to play Everquest (a lot) and one of the biggest disappointments was when they introduced the city portals.When I first started playing (as an ogre) traveling from the Oggok (ogre city) to Neriak (dark elves) was quite a trip, which I had to prepare for and I had to be constantly alert so I wouldn't die (those damn madmen and sand giants).Not to mention traveling to for example Ak'Anon or Erudin, for which trip you actually needed to sneak through human controlled cities to take a ship.That was awesome to me.
I can understand that it's not fun for everyone but when discussing these features at least consider this!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28509125</id>
	<title>Re:No, the technical term is "Dead Time"</title>
	<author>fractoid</author>
	<datestamp>1246203480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>You've</b> never played D&amp;D, at least with the sort of crowd I've played with. You usually spend half an hour per round of combat because no-one can focus, and it just turns into a chore.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've never played D&amp;D , at least with the sort of crowd I 've played with .
You usually spend half an hour per round of combat because no-one can focus , and it just turns into a chore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've never played D&amp;D, at least with the sort of crowd I've played with.
You usually spend half an hour per round of combat because no-one can focus, and it just turns into a chore.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28541971</id>
	<title>As the great Barrie said</title>
	<author>tverbeek</author>
	<datestamp>1246461720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>J. M. Barrie (creator of Peter Pan) wrote of Never Land that the place was very compact, so that adventures would never be far between.</htmltext>
<tokenext>J. M. Barrie ( creator of Peter Pan ) wrote of Never Land that the place was very compact , so that adventures would never be far between .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>J. M. Barrie (creator of Peter Pan) wrote of Never Land that the place was very compact, so that adventures would never be far between.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504129</id>
	<title>No, the technical term is "Dead Time"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246206780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why would you <b>pay to wait???</b></p><p>As the Lead Designer of the PC game <i>Majesty</i> explained to me the technical term is called "<b>Dead Time.</b>"  If the player is \_bored\_, you hav \_failed\_ as a game designer.</p><p>Anyone who thinks waiting 20 mins in a MMO  getting one from one destination, has never played D&amp;D.  D&amp;D has almost \_zero\_ dead time. Want to travel north?  Ok, GM rolls a die, and usually 1 or 2 things happen.</p><p>1. Ok, you're there. Now what?<br>2. Half way there you get attacked.  Now what?</p><p>In CRPGs, there needs to be a balance. Ultima Online showed that if any one can recall, then yes, the world does seem small. WoW has shown us that suckers, er gamers, will put up with paying to wait.  In Diablo 2, there are check-points (waypoints) that once you reach them, you can instantly travel back to any of the ones you have reached. Guid Wars does this exact same thing.  Want to travel back to any city you have previously reached.  Bam, there.  I would limit the distance warped, or allow mages to \_sell\_ tiered portal scrolls that allow for greater distances.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would you pay to wait ? ?
? As the Lead Designer of the PC game Majesty explained to me the technical term is called " Dead Time .
" If the player is \ _bored \ _ , you hav \ _failed \ _ as a game designer.Anyone who thinks waiting 20 mins in a MMO getting one from one destination , has never played D&amp;D .
D&amp;D has almost \ _zero \ _ dead time .
Want to travel north ?
Ok , GM rolls a die , and usually 1 or 2 things happen.1 .
Ok , you 're there .
Now what ? 2 .
Half way there you get attacked .
Now what ? In CRPGs , there needs to be a balance .
Ultima Online showed that if any one can recall , then yes , the world does seem small .
WoW has shown us that suckers , er gamers , will put up with paying to wait .
In Diablo 2 , there are check-points ( waypoints ) that once you reach them , you can instantly travel back to any of the ones you have reached .
Guid Wars does this exact same thing .
Want to travel back to any city you have previously reached .
Bam , there .
I would limit the distance warped , or allow mages to \ _sell \ _ tiered portal scrolls that allow for greater distances .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would you pay to wait??
?As the Lead Designer of the PC game Majesty explained to me the technical term is called "Dead Time.
"  If the player is \_bored\_, you hav \_failed\_ as a game designer.Anyone who thinks waiting 20 mins in a MMO  getting one from one destination, has never played D&amp;D.
D&amp;D has almost \_zero\_ dead time.
Want to travel north?
Ok, GM rolls a die, and usually 1 or 2 things happen.1.
Ok, you're there.
Now what?2.
Half way there you get attacked.
Now what?In CRPGs, there needs to be a balance.
Ultima Online showed that if any one can recall, then yes, the world does seem small.
WoW has shown us that suckers, er gamers, will put up with paying to wait.
In Diablo 2, there are check-points (waypoints) that once you reach them, you can instantly travel back to any of the ones you have reached.
Guid Wars does this exact same thing.
Want to travel back to any city you have previously reached.
Bam, there.
I would limit the distance warped, or allow mages to \_sell\_ tiered portal scrolls that allow for greater distances.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502537</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28512373</id>
	<title>Re:Pretty simple</title>
	<author>hal2814</author>
	<datestamp>1246279620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right, because you can keep going back in time and playing that portion again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , because you can keep going back in time and playing that portion again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, because you can keep going back in time and playing that portion again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28512613</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>Permutation Citizen</author>
	<datestamp>1246281840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure. A MMO needs many mechanics to keep players involved during thousands of hours. Transportation is one of them. The point is not to add artificial dead time, because just waiting is only boring. The point is to allow players to make correct choices to avoid to much transportation time, and this becomes part of the game. This also allows rewarding players with faster means of transportation.</p><p>I'll take wow as example:<br>
&nbsp; - When leveling, if you perform the right quests together, you save a lot of time.<br>
&nbsp; - getting 100po for my first character's level 40 mount was a challenge ( with tailoring and enchanting as crafts, I was very poor during leveling).  I became an AH trader for that and this is a game in the game.<br>
&nbsp; - paying 5000 po for the epic flying mount is an important part of Wow economy, to destroy money.<br>
&nbsp; - Shortcuts ! Did you remember the old Molten Core raids ? There was always someone trying to save time jumping into lava and failing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure .
A MMO needs many mechanics to keep players involved during thousands of hours .
Transportation is one of them .
The point is not to add artificial dead time , because just waiting is only boring .
The point is to allow players to make correct choices to avoid to much transportation time , and this becomes part of the game .
This also allows rewarding players with faster means of transportation.I 'll take wow as example :   - When leveling , if you perform the right quests together , you save a lot of time .
  - getting 100po for my first character 's level 40 mount was a challenge ( with tailoring and enchanting as crafts , I was very poor during leveling ) .
I became an AH trader for that and this is a game in the game .
  - paying 5000 po for the epic flying mount is an important part of Wow economy , to destroy money .
  - Shortcuts !
Did you remember the old Molten Core raids ?
There was always someone trying to save time jumping into lava and failing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure.
A MMO needs many mechanics to keep players involved during thousands of hours.
Transportation is one of them.
The point is not to add artificial dead time, because just waiting is only boring.
The point is to allow players to make correct choices to avoid to much transportation time, and this becomes part of the game.
This also allows rewarding players with faster means of transportation.I'll take wow as example:
  - When leveling, if you perform the right quests together, you save a lot of time.
  - getting 100po for my first character's level 40 mount was a challenge ( with tailoring and enchanting as crafts, I was very poor during leveling).
I became an AH trader for that and this is a game in the game.
  - paying 5000 po for the epic flying mount is an important part of Wow economy, to destroy money.
  - Shortcuts !
Did you remember the old Molten Core raids ?
There was always someone trying to save time jumping into lava and failing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28518787</id>
	<title>Re:As the great Bartle said</title>
	<author>WuphonsReach</author>
	<datestamp>1246266360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>No, they use it because it introduces massive downtime that is easy to justify as you can get some players even believe it is for their own good.</i> <br>
<br>
I'll state right up front that you're off base, close minded, and completely lacking in aesthetics.<br>
<br>
I played EQ back in the days of Velious.  Traveling from Faydwer (eastern continent on Norrath) to Erudin (western continent) by foot, was about a 2-3 hour journey.  So, if you wanted to travel that way (for free), you expended playing time.  The land felt huge, absolutely epic.  Or you could pay for a port (spend money, or make friends) by a druid or wizard who would whisk you and 4 others to a far corner of the globe.  Or you could simply level up as a wizard/druid and move yourself around.  This all had some interesting side effects:<br>
<br>
1. You'd typically stay in an area for a few days a time, and your local reputation mattered.  Everyone knew who the troublemakers were, who the cheaters were, who the kill-stealers were, etc.  Assholes tended to find their life difficult.  Druids and Wizards would often refuse to port an asshole, which meant they were stuck running and taking the boat if they wanted to escape their reputation.<br>
<br>
2. The population remained spread out.  Because travel was difficult, players would not move willy-nilly from hot spot to hot spot.  Unless you had strong reason to level elsewhere, most people stayed and leveled up near their home city.<br>
<br>
3. Travel became an adventure in its own right.  Not everyone's cup of tea, but to a great many of us, we enjoyed the epic crossing of Norrath.  It was part of the pleasure of playing.<br>
<br>
So things were in good shape, right up until SOE decided to (a) put in the free teleports up to the moon (b) completely trivialize travel between major cities in Planes of Power and (c) create a central, neutral city, with bankers and a place to sell.<br>
<br>
- The population immediately flocked to the "best" leveling zone.  Which resulted in tremendous lag, kill-stealing, competition for camping spots, and general bad manners all the way around.<br>
<br>
- Assholes could now move from zone to zone easily, escaping their local reputation.  The game world became much more anonymous, and the Internet Fuckwad Theory became to apply.<br>
<br>
- Faction and exploration (two aspects of the game that many people enjoyed) became a joke.  Which basically left "killing things" and "getting phat lewt".<br>
<br>
- The world immediately shrunk in apparent size.  It lost a lot of the epic feel prior to the introduction of free travel.<br>
<br>
- The small economy centered around the buying / selling / bartering of ports was destroyed.  This impacted quite a few players and could've been averted by not making travel free.  (Yes, waiting for a druid/wizard to come by a druid circle or wizard spire was a pain at times.  We would've been happy to pay about double the going rate to an NPC who would port us without waiting.)<br>
<br>
- Old world cities immediately became ghost towns.  Large portions of the world became abandoned.<br>
<br>
From what I've seen, Blizzard's World of Warcraft gets it just about right:<br>
<br>
- Initial exploration on foot or mounted, unlocks gryphon / bat locations allowing you to return reasonably quickly to those locations in the future.  (The exception being the southern half of Kalimdor for Alliance characters due to all the major Alliance cities being situated at the north end of the continent.)<br>
<br>
- Travel on the gryphons/bats is not free.  Nor is it immediate.  Which means that sometimes you'll see people pay mages for portals to distant cities.  In addition, the gryphons function as yet another money sink (lowering the rate of inflation).<br>
<br>
- There are central travel hubs like Shattrath and Dalaran, where you can easily get to any major city in an instant.  If you set your hearthstone there, you are never more then 30 minutes (the cooldown on your hearthstone) from any major city on Azeroth.<br>
<br>
- The auction house and class / profession trainer</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , they use it because it introduces massive downtime that is easy to justify as you can get some players even believe it is for their own good .
I 'll state right up front that you 're off base , close minded , and completely lacking in aesthetics .
I played EQ back in the days of Velious .
Traveling from Faydwer ( eastern continent on Norrath ) to Erudin ( western continent ) by foot , was about a 2-3 hour journey .
So , if you wanted to travel that way ( for free ) , you expended playing time .
The land felt huge , absolutely epic .
Or you could pay for a port ( spend money , or make friends ) by a druid or wizard who would whisk you and 4 others to a far corner of the globe .
Or you could simply level up as a wizard/druid and move yourself around .
This all had some interesting side effects : 1 .
You 'd typically stay in an area for a few days a time , and your local reputation mattered .
Everyone knew who the troublemakers were , who the cheaters were , who the kill-stealers were , etc .
Assholes tended to find their life difficult .
Druids and Wizards would often refuse to port an asshole , which meant they were stuck running and taking the boat if they wanted to escape their reputation .
2. The population remained spread out .
Because travel was difficult , players would not move willy-nilly from hot spot to hot spot .
Unless you had strong reason to level elsewhere , most people stayed and leveled up near their home city .
3. Travel became an adventure in its own right .
Not everyone 's cup of tea , but to a great many of us , we enjoyed the epic crossing of Norrath .
It was part of the pleasure of playing .
So things were in good shape , right up until SOE decided to ( a ) put in the free teleports up to the moon ( b ) completely trivialize travel between major cities in Planes of Power and ( c ) create a central , neutral city , with bankers and a place to sell .
- The population immediately flocked to the " best " leveling zone .
Which resulted in tremendous lag , kill-stealing , competition for camping spots , and general bad manners all the way around .
- Assholes could now move from zone to zone easily , escaping their local reputation .
The game world became much more anonymous , and the Internet Fuckwad Theory became to apply .
- Faction and exploration ( two aspects of the game that many people enjoyed ) became a joke .
Which basically left " killing things " and " getting phat lewt " .
- The world immediately shrunk in apparent size .
It lost a lot of the epic feel prior to the introduction of free travel .
- The small economy centered around the buying / selling / bartering of ports was destroyed .
This impacted quite a few players and could 've been averted by not making travel free .
( Yes , waiting for a druid/wizard to come by a druid circle or wizard spire was a pain at times .
We would 've been happy to pay about double the going rate to an NPC who would port us without waiting .
) - Old world cities immediately became ghost towns .
Large portions of the world became abandoned .
From what I 've seen , Blizzard 's World of Warcraft gets it just about right : - Initial exploration on foot or mounted , unlocks gryphon / bat locations allowing you to return reasonably quickly to those locations in the future .
( The exception being the southern half of Kalimdor for Alliance characters due to all the major Alliance cities being situated at the north end of the continent .
) - Travel on the gryphons/bats is not free .
Nor is it immediate .
Which means that sometimes you 'll see people pay mages for portals to distant cities .
In addition , the gryphons function as yet another money sink ( lowering the rate of inflation ) .
- There are central travel hubs like Shattrath and Dalaran , where you can easily get to any major city in an instant .
If you set your hearthstone there , you are never more then 30 minutes ( the cooldown on your hearthstone ) from any major city on Azeroth .
- The auction house and class / profession trainer</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, they use it because it introduces massive downtime that is easy to justify as you can get some players even believe it is for their own good.
I'll state right up front that you're off base, close minded, and completely lacking in aesthetics.
I played EQ back in the days of Velious.
Traveling from Faydwer (eastern continent on Norrath) to Erudin (western continent) by foot, was about a 2-3 hour journey.
So, if you wanted to travel that way (for free), you expended playing time.
The land felt huge, absolutely epic.
Or you could pay for a port (spend money, or make friends) by a druid or wizard who would whisk you and 4 others to a far corner of the globe.
Or you could simply level up as a wizard/druid and move yourself around.
This all had some interesting side effects:

1.
You'd typically stay in an area for a few days a time, and your local reputation mattered.
Everyone knew who the troublemakers were, who the cheaters were, who the kill-stealers were, etc.
Assholes tended to find their life difficult.
Druids and Wizards would often refuse to port an asshole, which meant they were stuck running and taking the boat if they wanted to escape their reputation.
2. The population remained spread out.
Because travel was difficult, players would not move willy-nilly from hot spot to hot spot.
Unless you had strong reason to level elsewhere, most people stayed and leveled up near their home city.
3. Travel became an adventure in its own right.
Not everyone's cup of tea, but to a great many of us, we enjoyed the epic crossing of Norrath.
It was part of the pleasure of playing.
So things were in good shape, right up until SOE decided to (a) put in the free teleports up to the moon (b) completely trivialize travel between major cities in Planes of Power and (c) create a central, neutral city, with bankers and a place to sell.
- The population immediately flocked to the "best" leveling zone.
Which resulted in tremendous lag, kill-stealing, competition for camping spots, and general bad manners all the way around.
- Assholes could now move from zone to zone easily, escaping their local reputation.
The game world became much more anonymous, and the Internet Fuckwad Theory became to apply.
- Faction and exploration (two aspects of the game that many people enjoyed) became a joke.
Which basically left "killing things" and "getting phat lewt".
- The world immediately shrunk in apparent size.
It lost a lot of the epic feel prior to the introduction of free travel.
- The small economy centered around the buying / selling / bartering of ports was destroyed.
This impacted quite a few players and could've been averted by not making travel free.
(Yes, waiting for a druid/wizard to come by a druid circle or wizard spire was a pain at times.
We would've been happy to pay about double the going rate to an NPC who would port us without waiting.
)

- Old world cities immediately became ghost towns.
Large portions of the world became abandoned.
From what I've seen, Blizzard's World of Warcraft gets it just about right:

- Initial exploration on foot or mounted, unlocks gryphon / bat locations allowing you to return reasonably quickly to those locations in the future.
(The exception being the southern half of Kalimdor for Alliance characters due to all the major Alliance cities being situated at the north end of the continent.
)

- Travel on the gryphons/bats is not free.
Nor is it immediate.
Which means that sometimes you'll see people pay mages for portals to distant cities.
In addition, the gryphons function as yet another money sink (lowering the rate of inflation).
- There are central travel hubs like Shattrath and Dalaran, where you can easily get to any major city in an instant.
If you set your hearthstone there, you are never more then 30 minutes (the cooldown on your hearthstone) from any major city on Azeroth.
- The auction house and class / profession trainer</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28504487</id>
	<title>Re:Guilds Wars method</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1246209360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Guild Wars' method also has one *very* important advantage going for it: 'lowbie' areas still have people in them.</p><p>I can be playing with my Warrior main, doing a mission on Cantha's mainland when a guild mate asks for help on a new Nightfall character. I just hit 'M', select the little ship, select the continent of Elona and 30 secs later I'm standing in the middle of Kamadan, port city of the Elonian continent and 30 secs away from any outpost in the Nightfall campaign ready to help him out.</p><p>That ease, in turn, also means many 'lowbie' areas are full of lv20s selling their wares and giving free stuff to newbies, since there's only a 30-sec difference between idling on the Realm of Torment or idling on Old Ascalon and helping/pestering newbies more than compensates for that.</p><p>But who's gonna spend from 30 mins to an hour in WoW going to a lowbie area and back just to help somebody else? let alone sell or give out stuff to random newbies. From what I've heard playing the lv1-60 content in WoW these days is pretty much like playing a single-player RPG, except with a monthly fee, and that's very much a result of long travel times, IMHO.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Guild Wars ' method also has one * very * important advantage going for it : 'lowbie ' areas still have people in them.I can be playing with my Warrior main , doing a mission on Cantha 's mainland when a guild mate asks for help on a new Nightfall character .
I just hit 'M ' , select the little ship , select the continent of Elona and 30 secs later I 'm standing in the middle of Kamadan , port city of the Elonian continent and 30 secs away from any outpost in the Nightfall campaign ready to help him out.That ease , in turn , also means many 'lowbie ' areas are full of lv20s selling their wares and giving free stuff to newbies , since there 's only a 30-sec difference between idling on the Realm of Torment or idling on Old Ascalon and helping/pestering newbies more than compensates for that.But who 's gon na spend from 30 mins to an hour in WoW going to a lowbie area and back just to help somebody else ?
let alone sell or give out stuff to random newbies .
From what I 've heard playing the lv1-60 content in WoW these days is pretty much like playing a single-player RPG , except with a monthly fee , and that 's very much a result of long travel times , IMHO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Guild Wars' method also has one *very* important advantage going for it: 'lowbie' areas still have people in them.I can be playing with my Warrior main, doing a mission on Cantha's mainland when a guild mate asks for help on a new Nightfall character.
I just hit 'M', select the little ship, select the continent of Elona and 30 secs later I'm standing in the middle of Kamadan, port city of the Elonian continent and 30 secs away from any outpost in the Nightfall campaign ready to help him out.That ease, in turn, also means many 'lowbie' areas are full of lv20s selling their wares and giving free stuff to newbies, since there's only a 30-sec difference between idling on the Realm of Torment or idling on Old Ascalon and helping/pestering newbies more than compensates for that.But who's gonna spend from 30 mins to an hour in WoW going to a lowbie area and back just to help somebody else?
let alone sell or give out stuff to random newbies.
From what I've heard playing the lv1-60 content in WoW these days is pretty much like playing a single-player RPG, except with a monthly fee, and that's very much a result of long travel times, IMHO.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502603</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28516185</id>
	<title>Tinkering</title>
	<author>kenp2002</author>
	<datestamp>1246299540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've tinkering with MMO design for years going all the way back to DIKU.</p><p>I will offer this theory for you:</p><p>SIZE in a game is actually a measurement of content density.</p><p>Imagine a grid and you put numbers in each box where there are X number of activities.</p><p>Given a 100x100 square box areas of high numbers are inheritly LARGER because a player spends more time in those areas. Areas with small numbers are SMALLER.</p><p>Players 'sense' the size of a game by this density not real world dimensions.</p><p>You want slower movement in areas of high density and quicker movement in areas of lower density. By tracking the measurement you give the world a consistent feel of size.</p><p>Early in an MMO where you have large phsyical distances between A and B with low density you place fast movement. This "shrinks" that distance so it feels like an area of higher density.</p><p>Outside of technical limitations this gives players a linear feel to the size of the world.</p><p>An analogy is running through a field versus a forest at a fixed speed. You'll do a lot more dodge, dip, dive, duck and dodging more in the forest then the plains and even though you are moving at the same speed you won't go as far in the forest then in the plains.</p><p>An ingame example is starting in WoW at Stormwind. The developers try to maintain a consistent sense of density by using quests (content) but once the quest is complete and the mobs are useless the density drops and Westfall all of a sudden is really big and boring. You want a mount at that point to regain that linear sense of density (size).</p><p>As the quests get more spread out and the content less dense the mounts come into play to control the percieved size of the game world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've tinkering with MMO design for years going all the way back to DIKU.I will offer this theory for you : SIZE in a game is actually a measurement of content density.Imagine a grid and you put numbers in each box where there are X number of activities.Given a 100x100 square box areas of high numbers are inheritly LARGER because a player spends more time in those areas .
Areas with small numbers are SMALLER.Players 'sense ' the size of a game by this density not real world dimensions.You want slower movement in areas of high density and quicker movement in areas of lower density .
By tracking the measurement you give the world a consistent feel of size.Early in an MMO where you have large phsyical distances between A and B with low density you place fast movement .
This " shrinks " that distance so it feels like an area of higher density.Outside of technical limitations this gives players a linear feel to the size of the world.An analogy is running through a field versus a forest at a fixed speed .
You 'll do a lot more dodge , dip , dive , duck and dodging more in the forest then the plains and even though you are moving at the same speed you wo n't go as far in the forest then in the plains.An ingame example is starting in WoW at Stormwind .
The developers try to maintain a consistent sense of density by using quests ( content ) but once the quest is complete and the mobs are useless the density drops and Westfall all of a sudden is really big and boring .
You want a mount at that point to regain that linear sense of density ( size ) .As the quests get more spread out and the content less dense the mounts come into play to control the percieved size of the game world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've tinkering with MMO design for years going all the way back to DIKU.I will offer this theory for you:SIZE in a game is actually a measurement of content density.Imagine a grid and you put numbers in each box where there are X number of activities.Given a 100x100 square box areas of high numbers are inheritly LARGER because a player spends more time in those areas.
Areas with small numbers are SMALLER.Players 'sense' the size of a game by this density not real world dimensions.You want slower movement in areas of high density and quicker movement in areas of lower density.
By tracking the measurement you give the world a consistent feel of size.Early in an MMO where you have large phsyical distances between A and B with low density you place fast movement.
This "shrinks" that distance so it feels like an area of higher density.Outside of technical limitations this gives players a linear feel to the size of the world.An analogy is running through a field versus a forest at a fixed speed.
You'll do a lot more dodge, dip, dive, duck and dodging more in the forest then the plains and even though you are moving at the same speed you won't go as far in the forest then in the plains.An ingame example is starting in WoW at Stormwind.
The developers try to maintain a consistent sense of density by using quests (content) but once the quest is complete and the mobs are useless the density drops and Westfall all of a sudden is really big and boring.
You want a mount at that point to regain that linear sense of density (size).As the quests get more spread out and the content less dense the mounts come into play to control the percieved size of the game world.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28502397</id>
	<title>Or, the alternative...</title>
	<author>VPeric</author>
	<datestamp>1246189680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Of course, you could go the other way and make location actually <b>matter</b> - like, for example, EVE Online.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , you could go the other way and make location actually matter - like , for example , EVE Online .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, you could go the other way and make location actually matter - like, for example, EVE Online.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28505031
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28506125
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_0459209.28509167
</commentlist>
</conversation>
