<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_24_1851238</id>
	<title>Panasonic Begins To Lock Out 3d-Party Camera Batteries</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1245871020000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>OhMyBattery writes <i>"The latest firmware updated for Panasonic digital cameras contains one single improvement: it <a href="http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/info/dsc\_battery.html">locks out the ability to use 'non-genuine Panasonic' batteries</a>. It does so for safety reasons, it says. It seems to indicate that this is going to be the norm for all new Panasonic digital cameras. From the release: 'Panasonic Digital Still Cameras now include a technology that can identify a genuine Panasonic battery. For the protection of our customers Panasonic developed this technology after it was discovered that some aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses.' The firmware warning is quite clear as to what it does: 'After this firmware update your Panasonic Digital Camera cannot be operated by 3rd party batteries (non genuine Panasonic batteries).'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>OhMyBattery writes " The latest firmware updated for Panasonic digital cameras contains one single improvement : it locks out the ability to use 'non-genuine Panasonic ' batteries .
It does so for safety reasons , it says .
It seems to indicate that this is going to be the norm for all new Panasonic digital cameras .
From the release : 'Panasonic Digital Still Cameras now include a technology that can identify a genuine Panasonic battery .
For the protection of our customers Panasonic developed this technology after it was discovered that some aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses .
' The firmware warning is quite clear as to what it does : 'After this firmware update your Panasonic Digital Camera can not be operated by 3rd party batteries ( non genuine Panasonic batteries ) .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OhMyBattery writes "The latest firmware updated for Panasonic digital cameras contains one single improvement: it locks out the ability to use 'non-genuine Panasonic' batteries.
It does so for safety reasons, it says.
It seems to indicate that this is going to be the norm for all new Panasonic digital cameras.
From the release: 'Panasonic Digital Still Cameras now include a technology that can identify a genuine Panasonic battery.
For the protection of our customers Panasonic developed this technology after it was discovered that some aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses.
' The firmware warning is quite clear as to what it does: 'After this firmware update your Panasonic Digital Camera cannot be operated by 3rd party batteries (non genuine Panasonic batteries).
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458925</id>
	<title>Re:Standards?</title>
	<author>joocemann</author>
	<datestamp>1245838800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought fear mongering was for politicians and news organizations...</p><p>Panasonic must have hired some dick-head, former Halliburton CEO, ex-politician, consultant... I'm guessing he dug up some huge stacks of intel to pull the Panasonic leadership aside and let them know that everyone's safety is at stake --- terrorists are making rogue 3rd party batteries!!!</p><p>For your safety, of course.  No ulterior motive here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought fear mongering was for politicians and news organizations...Panasonic must have hired some dick-head , former Halliburton CEO , ex-politician , consultant... I 'm guessing he dug up some huge stacks of intel to pull the Panasonic leadership aside and let them know that everyone 's safety is at stake --- terrorists are making rogue 3rd party batteries ! !
! For your safety , of course .
No ulterior motive here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought fear mongering was for politicians and news organizations...Panasonic must have hired some dick-head, former Halliburton CEO, ex-politician, consultant... I'm guessing he dug up some huge stacks of intel to pull the Panasonic leadership aside and let them know that everyone's safety is at stake --- terrorists are making rogue 3rd party batteries!!
!For your safety, of course.
No ulterior motive here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457075</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28464729</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>alecwood</author>
	<datestamp>1245933480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Leaving marketing mythology aside for a moment, what damage could a third party battery do? <br> <br>
A battery cannot overvolt, so the only condition where it could supply too much current would be in the event of a fault inside the camera shorting it out. Exploding, leaking etc shouldn't be a concern to Panasonic since to claim against them you'd need both the camera and the remains of the damaged battery, which if not a genuine Panasonic item wouldn't be their liability or warranty expense. <br> <br>

This is surely just a ruse to get us to buy a new camera every couple of years since the battery will need to be replaced after a year or two and will be "obsolete" and unavailable by then.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Leaving marketing mythology aside for a moment , what damage could a third party battery do ?
A battery can not overvolt , so the only condition where it could supply too much current would be in the event of a fault inside the camera shorting it out .
Exploding , leaking etc should n't be a concern to Panasonic since to claim against them you 'd need both the camera and the remains of the damaged battery , which if not a genuine Panasonic item would n't be their liability or warranty expense .
This is surely just a ruse to get us to buy a new camera every couple of years since the battery will need to be replaced after a year or two and will be " obsolete " and unavailable by then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Leaving marketing mythology aside for a moment, what damage could a third party battery do?
A battery cannot overvolt, so the only condition where it could supply too much current would be in the event of a fault inside the camera shorting it out.
Exploding, leaking etc shouldn't be a concern to Panasonic since to claim against them you'd need both the camera and the remains of the damaged battery, which if not a genuine Panasonic item wouldn't be their liability or warranty expense.
This is surely just a ruse to get us to buy a new camera every couple of years since the battery will need to be replaced after a year or two and will be "obsolete" and unavailable by then.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457215</id>
	<title>Sad</title>
	<author>alain\_delon</author>
	<datestamp>1245875700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Haven't Panasonic learned anything from Sony's collection of examples of what not to do if you want to keep your position as a market leader?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have n't Panasonic learned anything from Sony 's collection of examples of what not to do if you want to keep your position as a market leader ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Haven't Panasonic learned anything from Sony's collection of examples of what not to do if you want to keep your position as a market leader?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457431</id>
	<title>Re:Expect to see this "feature" soon on your 'pod.</title>
	<author>LuvlyOvipositor</author>
	<datestamp>1245876600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Too late, iPods and other such devices generally don't allow you to remove the battery at all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Too late , iPods and other such devices generally do n't allow you to remove the battery at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too late, iPods and other such devices generally don't allow you to remove the battery at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457147</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457629</id>
	<title>Another reason to hate lithium-ion</title>
	<author>ickleberry</author>
	<datestamp>1245834120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Li-ion @ 20 degrees C will lose about 20\% of its capacity per year <i>without usage</i>. that means in a few short years it will be time for you to buy a new camera whether you want one or not. I bet there are lots of perfectly good cameras thrown away because their proprietary lithium ion batteries lost their capacity and got discontinued. <br> <br>

Of course, one can always rebuild the original Panasonic battery pack. just buy a similar voltage and slightly smaller size lithium ion (3.6 or 7.2v usually) on ebay and you should be able to retrofit it inside the original battery pack.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Li-ion @ 20 degrees C will lose about 20 \ % of its capacity per year without usage .
that means in a few short years it will be time for you to buy a new camera whether you want one or not .
I bet there are lots of perfectly good cameras thrown away because their proprietary lithium ion batteries lost their capacity and got discontinued .
Of course , one can always rebuild the original Panasonic battery pack .
just buy a similar voltage and slightly smaller size lithium ion ( 3.6 or 7.2v usually ) on ebay and you should be able to retrofit it inside the original battery pack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Li-ion @ 20 degrees C will lose about 20\% of its capacity per year without usage.
that means in a few short years it will be time for you to buy a new camera whether you want one or not.
I bet there are lots of perfectly good cameras thrown away because their proprietary lithium ion batteries lost their capacity and got discontinued.
Of course, one can always rebuild the original Panasonic battery pack.
just buy a similar voltage and slightly smaller size lithium ion (3.6 or 7.2v usually) on ebay and you should be able to retrofit it inside the original battery pack.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457123</id>
	<title>Re:Lock is anticompetitive, not consumer prot'n</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245875340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why not just build the battery right into the camera. End of story.</p><p>Battery problems? Take your camera to an authorized Panasonic repair shop...</p><p>Either way, the market will decide on this. Panasonic isn't the only player in town.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not just build the battery right into the camera .
End of story.Battery problems ?
Take your camera to an authorized Panasonic repair shop...Either way , the market will decide on this .
Panasonic is n't the only player in town .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not just build the battery right into the camera.
End of story.Battery problems?
Take your camera to an authorized Panasonic repair shop...Either way, the market will decide on this.
Panasonic isn't the only player in town.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457047</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28463029</id>
	<title>I suspect these are Li-Ion</title>
	<author>Trogre</author>
	<datestamp>1245867420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Before we write these guys off as 100\% evil:</p><p>I'm not familiar with all Panasonic cameras, but the ones I've seen use Li-Ion batteries.  I have read reports of some cheap Li-Ions literally exploding in appliances, and know of at least one in my area that caught fire a minute after being taken<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/out/ of an appliance, possibly after breaking down internally due to high current drain.</p><p>I think Panasonic have gone completely the wrong way about this, having thrown the baby out with the bathwater, but there may be some logic to it other than HP-ink-style profiteering.  If it was me I'd simply make the warranty not cover damage caused by 3rd party batteries and be done with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Before we write these guys off as 100 \ % evil : I 'm not familiar with all Panasonic cameras , but the ones I 've seen use Li-Ion batteries .
I have read reports of some cheap Li-Ions literally exploding in appliances , and know of at least one in my area that caught fire a minute after being taken /out/ of an appliance , possibly after breaking down internally due to high current drain.I think Panasonic have gone completely the wrong way about this , having thrown the baby out with the bathwater , but there may be some logic to it other than HP-ink-style profiteering .
If it was me I 'd simply make the warranty not cover damage caused by 3rd party batteries and be done with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before we write these guys off as 100\% evil:I'm not familiar with all Panasonic cameras, but the ones I've seen use Li-Ion batteries.
I have read reports of some cheap Li-Ions literally exploding in appliances, and know of at least one in my area that caught fire a minute after being taken /out/ of an appliance, possibly after breaking down internally due to high current drain.I think Panasonic have gone completely the wrong way about this, having thrown the baby out with the bathwater, but there may be some logic to it other than HP-ink-style profiteering.
If it was me I'd simply make the warranty not cover damage caused by 3rd party batteries and be done with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459399</id>
	<title>AA batteries = fewer shots  w/flash per second</title>
	<author>cshay</author>
	<datestamp>1245840720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In my very unscientific investigation 2 years ago, I noted that every camera I saw that used AA batteries took repeated flash photos at a much slower rate than Li batteries did. Since the photos I most take are of small moving children, this was key.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my very unscientific investigation 2 years ago , I noted that every camera I saw that used AA batteries took repeated flash photos at a much slower rate than Li batteries did .
Since the photos I most take are of small moving children , this was key .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my very unscientific investigation 2 years ago, I noted that every camera I saw that used AA batteries took repeated flash photos at a much slower rate than Li batteries did.
Since the photos I most take are of small moving children, this was key.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458867</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1245838560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"There goes Panasonic off my list for an upcoming camera buy."</i>
<br> <br>
Yep. If I buy a car, I insist on the ability to use whatever brand of gasoline I want! If it's a bit more volatile than the "recommended" brand, that's a risk I take.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" There goes Panasonic off my list for an upcoming camera buy .
" Yep .
If I buy a car , I insist on the ability to use whatever brand of gasoline I want !
If it 's a bit more volatile than the " recommended " brand , that 's a risk I take .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"There goes Panasonic off my list for an upcoming camera buy.
"
 
Yep.
If I buy a car, I insist on the ability to use whatever brand of gasoline I want!
If it's a bit more volatile than the "recommended" brand, that's a risk I take.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457147</id>
	<title>Expect to see this "feature" soon on your 'pod...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245875460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...and your cellphone, and on all devices with batteries and embedded processors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and your cellphone , and on all devices with batteries and embedded processors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and your cellphone, and on all devices with batteries and embedded processors.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28465643</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>ukyoCE</author>
	<datestamp>1245940860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Safety isn't the only problem.  I bought a replacement battery for an LG phone off Amazon.  The pictured battery was labeled as an official Verizon/LG battery.</p><p>The one I was shipped was a knockoff battery, and it turns out it was only about 2/3 the size of the original battery.</p><p>I'm not sure that justifies blocking 3rd party batteries.  But blocking them certainly makes things simpler and cleaner for the customer as well as the device manufacturer/seller.</p><p>Of course it's handily more profitable too, but given reasonably priced batteries (unlikely when they have a monopoly for their device) I wouldn't mind using the 1st-party batteries.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Safety is n't the only problem .
I bought a replacement battery for an LG phone off Amazon .
The pictured battery was labeled as an official Verizon/LG battery.The one I was shipped was a knockoff battery , and it turns out it was only about 2/3 the size of the original battery.I 'm not sure that justifies blocking 3rd party batteries .
But blocking them certainly makes things simpler and cleaner for the customer as well as the device manufacturer/seller.Of course it 's handily more profitable too , but given reasonably priced batteries ( unlikely when they have a monopoly for their device ) I would n't mind using the 1st-party batteries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Safety isn't the only problem.
I bought a replacement battery for an LG phone off Amazon.
The pictured battery was labeled as an official Verizon/LG battery.The one I was shipped was a knockoff battery, and it turns out it was only about 2/3 the size of the original battery.I'm not sure that justifies blocking 3rd party batteries.
But blocking them certainly makes things simpler and cleaner for the customer as well as the device manufacturer/seller.Of course it's handily more profitable too, but given reasonably priced batteries (unlikely when they have a monopoly for their device) I wouldn't mind using the 1st-party batteries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245837660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Everyone wants to make a buck stifling competition and innovation these days.</p></div><p>Well, I wouldn't buy a Panasonic to start with, but I don't think that's their primary motive.</p><p>I worked for some time as a camera dealer/repair shop. We would often see people come in with a damaged camera, pop out the 3rd-party battery and replace it with the Genuine one, and try to claim the Warranty.<br>This costs the camera makers a lot of money repairing equipment that they really shouldn't have to, since they can't tell what kind of battery was in the device.</p><p>Personally, I think a better move would be for the firmware to simply set some type of non-resettable internal flag showing that a non-approved battery was loaded, and display some type of alert option. If such a device was returned for service/refund/exchange, you could void the warranty if the flag was set.</p><p>No need to prevent the use of such batteries outright. But I can sort of sympathize with them, there are some pretty cheap batteries that are almost guaranteed to split/leak/explode. And if they can't put a stop to the warranty claims from such items, people will abuse it to no end. Simple formula- right before the warranty expires, load in a very cheap off-brand battery that you have intentionally over-stressed, and use it until it pops and ruins the camera. Voila, for the price of a battery + shipping you can have a brand new $1,000 camera.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone wants to make a buck stifling competition and innovation these days.Well , I would n't buy a Panasonic to start with , but I do n't think that 's their primary motive.I worked for some time as a camera dealer/repair shop .
We would often see people come in with a damaged camera , pop out the 3rd-party battery and replace it with the Genuine one , and try to claim the Warranty.This costs the camera makers a lot of money repairing equipment that they really should n't have to , since they ca n't tell what kind of battery was in the device.Personally , I think a better move would be for the firmware to simply set some type of non-resettable internal flag showing that a non-approved battery was loaded , and display some type of alert option .
If such a device was returned for service/refund/exchange , you could void the warranty if the flag was set.No need to prevent the use of such batteries outright .
But I can sort of sympathize with them , there are some pretty cheap batteries that are almost guaranteed to split/leak/explode .
And if they ca n't put a stop to the warranty claims from such items , people will abuse it to no end .
Simple formula- right before the warranty expires , load in a very cheap off-brand battery that you have intentionally over-stressed , and use it until it pops and ruins the camera .
Voila , for the price of a battery + shipping you can have a brand new $ 1,000 camera .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone wants to make a buck stifling competition and innovation these days.Well, I wouldn't buy a Panasonic to start with, but I don't think that's their primary motive.I worked for some time as a camera dealer/repair shop.
We would often see people come in with a damaged camera, pop out the 3rd-party battery and replace it with the Genuine one, and try to claim the Warranty.This costs the camera makers a lot of money repairing equipment that they really shouldn't have to, since they can't tell what kind of battery was in the device.Personally, I think a better move would be for the firmware to simply set some type of non-resettable internal flag showing that a non-approved battery was loaded, and display some type of alert option.
If such a device was returned for service/refund/exchange, you could void the warranty if the flag was set.No need to prevent the use of such batteries outright.
But I can sort of sympathize with them, there are some pretty cheap batteries that are almost guaranteed to split/leak/explode.
And if they can't put a stop to the warranty claims from such items, people will abuse it to no end.
Simple formula- right before the warranty expires, load in a very cheap off-brand battery that you have intentionally over-stressed, and use it until it pops and ruins the camera.
Voila, for the price of a battery + shipping you can have a brand new $1,000 camera.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456943</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458243</id>
	<title>Re:Kind of like pumping your own gas in oregon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245836460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The "official" reason why you are not allowed to pump your own gas in Oregon<br>is that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>way back in the Year of Our Lord 1982 the good people of Oregon rejected an initiative to permit self service gasoline.</p><p><a href="http://bluebook.state.or.us/state/elections/elections20.htm" title="state.or.us" rel="nofollow">November 2, 1982 -- Item 4  -- "Permits Self-Service Dispensing of Motor Vehicle Fuel at Retail"</a> [state.or.us]<br>FOR: 440,824  AGAINST: 597,970</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The " official " reason why you are not allowed to pump your own gas in Oregonis that ...way back in the Year of Our Lord 1982 the good people of Oregon rejected an initiative to permit self service gasoline.November 2 , 1982 -- Item 4 -- " Permits Self-Service Dispensing of Motor Vehicle Fuel at Retail " [ state.or.us ] FOR : 440,824 AGAINST : 597,970</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "official" reason why you are not allowed to pump your own gas in Oregonis that ...way back in the Year of Our Lord 1982 the good people of Oregon rejected an initiative to permit self service gasoline.November 2, 1982 -- Item 4  -- "Permits Self-Service Dispensing of Motor Vehicle Fuel at Retail" [state.or.us]FOR: 440,824  AGAINST: 597,970
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457323</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458015</id>
	<title>Re:Expect to see this "feature" soon on your 'pod.</title>
	<author>fermion</author>
	<datestamp>1245835680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Duh, it has always pretty been an implicit feature on a 'pod.  No user replaceable parts, right?  When was the last time you saw a 'pod with a user replaceable battery.
<p>
Just because I feel like, I am going to mention something about replaceable batteries.  First, the main reason to have user replacable batteries is that they are extremely unreliable. There is no 100\% real way to predict if a battery is going to work.  I recall the procedure to certify a battery for space, just in hopes that it would not crap out, was quite extensive.  This means that a manufacturer is taking a chance with a battery that require technician input.  There are going to be a certain number that will have to replaced under warranty, unless they are very careful in certification.
</p><p>
Not having a user replaceable, to me, is mostly a matter of charge cycle.  I do have an extra battery for my DSLR for those occasions when I might wear out the battery without time to recharge.  It does happen. OTOH, I only bought a battery for my old phone when it would not charge.  Am I going to risk such hardware to save a bit of money on the battery, effecting a few percent of the price of the gear?  No, of course not.  For the panasonic cameras the price differential might be a bit more, and user may not be so dedicated to the quality equipment.  Of course we do know that third party batteries do explode, and it is not always clear who is responsible for the backlash.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Duh , it has always pretty been an implicit feature on a 'pod .
No user replaceable parts , right ?
When was the last time you saw a 'pod with a user replaceable battery .
Just because I feel like , I am going to mention something about replaceable batteries .
First , the main reason to have user replacable batteries is that they are extremely unreliable .
There is no 100 \ % real way to predict if a battery is going to work .
I recall the procedure to certify a battery for space , just in hopes that it would not crap out , was quite extensive .
This means that a manufacturer is taking a chance with a battery that require technician input .
There are going to be a certain number that will have to replaced under warranty , unless they are very careful in certification .
Not having a user replaceable , to me , is mostly a matter of charge cycle .
I do have an extra battery for my DSLR for those occasions when I might wear out the battery without time to recharge .
It does happen .
OTOH , I only bought a battery for my old phone when it would not charge .
Am I going to risk such hardware to save a bit of money on the battery , effecting a few percent of the price of the gear ?
No , of course not .
For the panasonic cameras the price differential might be a bit more , and user may not be so dedicated to the quality equipment .
Of course we do know that third party batteries do explode , and it is not always clear who is responsible for the backlash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Duh, it has always pretty been an implicit feature on a 'pod.
No user replaceable parts, right?
When was the last time you saw a 'pod with a user replaceable battery.
Just because I feel like, I am going to mention something about replaceable batteries.
First, the main reason to have user replacable batteries is that they are extremely unreliable.
There is no 100\% real way to predict if a battery is going to work.
I recall the procedure to certify a battery for space, just in hopes that it would not crap out, was quite extensive.
This means that a manufacturer is taking a chance with a battery that require technician input.
There are going to be a certain number that will have to replaced under warranty, unless they are very careful in certification.
Not having a user replaceable, to me, is mostly a matter of charge cycle.
I do have an extra battery for my DSLR for those occasions when I might wear out the battery without time to recharge.
It does happen.
OTOH, I only bought a battery for my old phone when it would not charge.
Am I going to risk such hardware to save a bit of money on the battery, effecting a few percent of the price of the gear?
No, of course not.
For the panasonic cameras the price differential might be a bit more, and user may not be so dedicated to the quality equipment.
Of course we do know that third party batteries do explode, and it is not always clear who is responsible for the backlash.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457147</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460091</id>
	<title>But but but but its for SAFETY!</title>
	<author>WiiVault</author>
	<datestamp>1245844260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seriously, why don't you trust us?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , why do n't you trust us ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, why don't you trust us?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458001</id>
	<title>Possibly make for cheaper Panasonic batteries?</title>
	<author>swb</author>
	<datestamp>1245835620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Could it possibly lead to cheaper batteries?</p><p>Let's assume that there are an assload of bad aftermarket batteries out there (I'm not convinced there are, I have an aftermarket I bought to use with my Panasonic(!) Lumix camera and it works fine; btw, I love the camera, and David Pogue seems to like Panasonic cameras, too.  Anyway...).</p><p>If Panasonic ends up with a lot of warranty work, customer service, etc related to these bad batteries, they may actually end up having to charge more for their cameras and/or accessories to cover the cost of the technical support related to bad third party batteries.  If they restrict them to Panasonic only batteries, perhaps they will eliminate an expensive support issue that might actually allow them to sell batteries for less, or at least not raise prices as fast.</p><p>I'm sure this train of thought has more holes than a collandar, but what we don't know (but assume anyway) is that Panasonic is lying and they only want to do this to clean up selling extra batteries.  I'd like to believe in the bogeyman, too, but maybe there is some justification that will streamline their products use/support that actually makes it cheaper/easier to support.</p><p>(I'm sure that lame memory cards are much bigger issue, and I'd guess that generally speaking the lithium cells in third party batteries are probably from the same limited number of manufacturers as the Panasonics.  But hey, I'm trying to be optimistic...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could it possibly lead to cheaper batteries ? Let 's assume that there are an assload of bad aftermarket batteries out there ( I 'm not convinced there are , I have an aftermarket I bought to use with my Panasonic ( !
) Lumix camera and it works fine ; btw , I love the camera , and David Pogue seems to like Panasonic cameras , too .
Anyway... ) .If Panasonic ends up with a lot of warranty work , customer service , etc related to these bad batteries , they may actually end up having to charge more for their cameras and/or accessories to cover the cost of the technical support related to bad third party batteries .
If they restrict them to Panasonic only batteries , perhaps they will eliminate an expensive support issue that might actually allow them to sell batteries for less , or at least not raise prices as fast.I 'm sure this train of thought has more holes than a collandar , but what we do n't know ( but assume anyway ) is that Panasonic is lying and they only want to do this to clean up selling extra batteries .
I 'd like to believe in the bogeyman , too , but maybe there is some justification that will streamline their products use/support that actually makes it cheaper/easier to support .
( I 'm sure that lame memory cards are much bigger issue , and I 'd guess that generally speaking the lithium cells in third party batteries are probably from the same limited number of manufacturers as the Panasonics .
But hey , I 'm trying to be optimistic... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could it possibly lead to cheaper batteries?Let's assume that there are an assload of bad aftermarket batteries out there (I'm not convinced there are, I have an aftermarket I bought to use with my Panasonic(!
) Lumix camera and it works fine; btw, I love the camera, and David Pogue seems to like Panasonic cameras, too.
Anyway...).If Panasonic ends up with a lot of warranty work, customer service, etc related to these bad batteries, they may actually end up having to charge more for their cameras and/or accessories to cover the cost of the technical support related to bad third party batteries.
If they restrict them to Panasonic only batteries, perhaps they will eliminate an expensive support issue that might actually allow them to sell batteries for less, or at least not raise prices as fast.I'm sure this train of thought has more holes than a collandar, but what we don't know (but assume anyway) is that Panasonic is lying and they only want to do this to clean up selling extra batteries.
I'd like to believe in the bogeyman, too, but maybe there is some justification that will streamline their products use/support that actually makes it cheaper/easier to support.
(I'm sure that lame memory cards are much bigger issue, and I'd guess that generally speaking the lithium cells in third party batteries are probably from the same limited number of manufacturers as the Panasonics.
But hey, I'm trying to be optimistic...)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28463691</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>WNight</author>
	<datestamp>1245961560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We would often see people come in with a damaged camera, pop out the 3rd-party battery and replace it with the Genuine one, and try to claim the Warranty.</p></div><p>Yammer, yammer, lie. Sure you did. And these customers, their cameras were all damaged by leaking batteries?</p><p>Because of course you'd ship the camera back for warranty with the default battery, who'd expect otherwise? But unless the battery caused the problem (leaked) this isn't deceptive.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>[...] right before the warranty expires, load in a very cheap off-brand battery that you have intentionally over-stressed [...]</p></div><p>Uh huh, intentionally over-stressed. And how do you do this, Mr Scientist?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>[...] and use it until it pops and ruins the camera. Voila</p><p><div class="quote"><p>You're an idiot. They'll want to see the battery because if it's theirs, they'll owe you a new camera - if it's not, they won't.</p><p>Besides, if you could over-stress batteries why wouldn't you just do this to the real battery?</p></div></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We would often see people come in with a damaged camera , pop out the 3rd-party battery and replace it with the Genuine one , and try to claim the Warranty.Yammer , yammer , lie .
Sure you did .
And these customers , their cameras were all damaged by leaking batteries ? Because of course you 'd ship the camera back for warranty with the default battery , who 'd expect otherwise ?
But unless the battery caused the problem ( leaked ) this is n't deceptive. [ .. .
] right before the warranty expires , load in a very cheap off-brand battery that you have intentionally over-stressed [ ... ] Uh huh , intentionally over-stressed .
And how do you do this , Mr Scientist ? [ .. .
] and use it until it pops and ruins the camera .
VoilaYou 're an idiot .
They 'll want to see the battery because if it 's theirs , they 'll owe you a new camera - if it 's not , they wo n't.Besides , if you could over-stress batteries why would n't you just do this to the real battery ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We would often see people come in with a damaged camera, pop out the 3rd-party battery and replace it with the Genuine one, and try to claim the Warranty.Yammer, yammer, lie.
Sure you did.
And these customers, their cameras were all damaged by leaking batteries?Because of course you'd ship the camera back for warranty with the default battery, who'd expect otherwise?
But unless the battery caused the problem (leaked) this isn't deceptive.[...
] right before the warranty expires, load in a very cheap off-brand battery that you have intentionally over-stressed [...]Uh huh, intentionally over-stressed.
And how do you do this, Mr Scientist?[...
] and use it until it pops and ruins the camera.
VoilaYou're an idiot.
They'll want to see the battery because if it's theirs, they'll owe you a new camera - if it's not, they won't.Besides, if you could over-stress batteries why wouldn't you just do this to the real battery?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457257</id>
	<title>Who?</title>
	<author>hondo77</author>
	<datestamp>1245875940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Panasonic makes cameras?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Panasonic makes cameras ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Panasonic makes cameras?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459561</id>
	<title>Canon makes nice products</title>
	<author>okmijnuhb</author>
	<datestamp>1245841440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Canon makes nice products. And you can run chdk hacker software on them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Canon makes nice products .
And you can run chdk hacker software on them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Canon makes nice products.
And you can run chdk hacker software on them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28461539</id>
	<title>My wallet is rendered incompatible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245853680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Due to a recent upgrade in my own firmware, my wallet no longer accepts proprietary lock-in batteries.  It is critical to the proper functioning of my wallet that being able to freely choose from many sources any product I chose.  As a result, my wallet is no longer compatible with Panasonic batteries, or (as a result) cameras.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Due to a recent upgrade in my own firmware , my wallet no longer accepts proprietary lock-in batteries .
It is critical to the proper functioning of my wallet that being able to freely choose from many sources any product I chose .
As a result , my wallet is no longer compatible with Panasonic batteries , or ( as a result ) cameras .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Due to a recent upgrade in my own firmware, my wallet no longer accepts proprietary lock-in batteries.
It is critical to the proper functioning of my wallet that being able to freely choose from many sources any product I chose.
As a result, my wallet is no longer compatible with Panasonic batteries, or (as a result) cameras.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457731</id>
	<title>Re:Standards?</title>
	<author>taustin</author>
	<datestamp>1245834540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it weren't a trade secret, then other manufacturers <em>could</em> meet those standards, and Panasonic's profits would be in danger. This is all about <em>safety</em>, dammit! What's wrong with you people! Panasonic execs have boat payments to make!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it were n't a trade secret , then other manufacturers could meet those standards , and Panasonic 's profits would be in danger .
This is all about safety , dammit !
What 's wrong with you people !
Panasonic execs have boat payments to make !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it weren't a trade secret, then other manufacturers could meet those standards, and Panasonic's profits would be in danger.
This is all about safety, dammit!
What's wrong with you people!
Panasonic execs have boat payments to make!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457075</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459001</id>
	<title>Who is next?</title>
	<author>ACMENEWSLLC</author>
	<datestamp>1245839100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obviously they got this idea from HP and the like locking out 3rd party printer ink.</p><p>So who is going to be next to do this?   APC?  I can just see UPS manufactures requiring their specific battery.  No more putting a 9 AMP hours battery in a UPS made for 7A.</p><p>Then auto manufactures?  GMC requiring only GMC replacement batteries, windshield wiper blades, oil filters, and such.</p><p>I hope not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously they got this idea from HP and the like locking out 3rd party printer ink.So who is going to be next to do this ?
APC ? I can just see UPS manufactures requiring their specific battery .
No more putting a 9 AMP hours battery in a UPS made for 7A.Then auto manufactures ?
GMC requiring only GMC replacement batteries , windshield wiper blades , oil filters , and such.I hope not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously they got this idea from HP and the like locking out 3rd party printer ink.So who is going to be next to do this?
APC?  I can just see UPS manufactures requiring their specific battery.
No more putting a 9 AMP hours battery in a UPS made for 7A.Then auto manufactures?
GMC requiring only GMC replacement batteries, windshield wiper blades, oil filters, and such.I hope not.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460657</id>
	<title>Re:Talk about knee-jerk responses</title>
	<author>fluffernutter</author>
	<datestamp>1245846900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Great!  Then I suppose they will be following up their move with a drop in their battery prices so that no one has to worry about shelling out insane amounts of cash for batteries and they can enjoy their wonderful camera.
<br> <br>
And everyone will be gloriously happy!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Great !
Then I suppose they will be following up their move with a drop in their battery prices so that no one has to worry about shelling out insane amounts of cash for batteries and they can enjoy their wonderful camera .
And everyone will be gloriously happy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great!
Then I suppose they will be following up their move with a drop in their battery prices so that no one has to worry about shelling out insane amounts of cash for batteries and they can enjoy their wonderful camera.
And everyone will be gloriously happy!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457699</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457417</id>
	<title>Re:Norelco did this for years</title>
	<author>dgatwood</author>
	<datestamp>1245876480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An electric shaver is not like a camera.  Nobody ever lost a once-in-al-lifetime chance to take a photograph because they weren't clean-shaven.  And manual backups almost invariably exist for electric razors.  And you leave your electric razor plugged in at night and only use it once a day.  What makes sense for such a limited-use device does not make sense for a camera that you carry around all day and use repeatedly throughout the day.  For a camera, running out of battery power is annoying, but running out of battery power on a device that doesn't have removable batteries is a crisis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An electric shaver is not like a camera .
Nobody ever lost a once-in-al-lifetime chance to take a photograph because they were n't clean-shaven .
And manual backups almost invariably exist for electric razors .
And you leave your electric razor plugged in at night and only use it once a day .
What makes sense for such a limited-use device does not make sense for a camera that you carry around all day and use repeatedly throughout the day .
For a camera , running out of battery power is annoying , but running out of battery power on a device that does n't have removable batteries is a crisis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An electric shaver is not like a camera.
Nobody ever lost a once-in-al-lifetime chance to take a photograph because they weren't clean-shaven.
And manual backups almost invariably exist for electric razors.
And you leave your electric razor plugged in at night and only use it once a day.
What makes sense for such a limited-use device does not make sense for a camera that you carry around all day and use repeatedly throughout the day.
For a camera, running out of battery power is annoying, but running out of battery power on a device that doesn't have removable batteries is a crisis.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457665</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>jackharrer</author>
	<datestamp>1245834180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seconded. My 3rd party battery for FZ18 (brilliant camera btw!) is 1000mAh whereas original one is 710mAh. I much more prefer the non original one, obviously.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seconded .
My 3rd party battery for FZ18 ( brilliant camera btw !
) is 1000mAh whereas original one is 710mAh .
I much more prefer the non original one , obviously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seconded.
My 3rd party battery for FZ18 (brilliant camera btw!
) is 1000mAh whereas original one is 710mAh.
I much more prefer the non original one, obviously.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456943</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458815</id>
	<title>Re:Lock is anticompetitive, not consumer prot'n</title>
	<author>TubeSteak</author>
	<datestamp>1245838380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries, it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.</p></div><p>I have mod points and I think your comment is overrated,<br>but I'd rather point out the flaw in what you're saying:<br>You falsely assume that Panasonic/Matsushita can control 3rd party suppliers through licenses or certification.<br>Hint: They can't. There is no business relationship required for anyone to mfg a replacement battery.<br>This is exactly the same as printer mfgs being unable to restrict replacement ink cartriges w/o DRM.</p><p>The reason Panasonic is doing this, in addition to ensuring battery sales, is that usually cheap 3rd party li-ion batteries don't include the current limiting circuitry that prevents overcharging and/or thermal runaway.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries , it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.I have mod points and I think your comment is overrated,but I 'd rather point out the flaw in what you 're saying : You falsely assume that Panasonic/Matsushita can control 3rd party suppliers through licenses or certification.Hint : They ca n't .
There is no business relationship required for anyone to mfg a replacement battery.This is exactly the same as printer mfgs being unable to restrict replacement ink cartriges w/o DRM.The reason Panasonic is doing this , in addition to ensuring battery sales , is that usually cheap 3rd party li-ion batteries do n't include the current limiting circuitry that prevents overcharging and/or thermal runaway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries, it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.I have mod points and I think your comment is overrated,but I'd rather point out the flaw in what you're saying:You falsely assume that Panasonic/Matsushita can control 3rd party suppliers through licenses or certification.Hint: They can't.
There is no business relationship required for anyone to mfg a replacement battery.This is exactly the same as printer mfgs being unable to restrict replacement ink cartriges w/o DRM.The reason Panasonic is doing this, in addition to ensuring battery sales, is that usually cheap 3rd party li-ion batteries don't include the current limiting circuitry that prevents overcharging and/or thermal runaway.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457047</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457003</id>
	<title>Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245874920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Hey, install this so you have to buy more expensive batteries! Otherwise were completely powerless to stop you!"


At least they were honest and gave warning.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Hey , install this so you have to buy more expensive batteries !
Otherwise were completely powerless to stop you !
" At least they were honest and gave warning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Hey, install this so you have to buy more expensive batteries!
Otherwise were completely powerless to stop you!
"


At least they were honest and gave warning.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459117</id>
	<title>Nothing new here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245839460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sony did this with a camcorder I purchased in 2001.<br>If they stopped doing it, I don't know because they are on my blacklist for a growing number of reasons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sony did this with a camcorder I purchased in 2001.If they stopped doing it , I do n't know because they are on my blacklist for a growing number of reasons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sony did this with a camcorder I purchased in 2001.If they stopped doing it, I don't know because they are on my blacklist for a growing number of reasons.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457071</id>
	<title>riiiight...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245875160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And I'm sure it has nothing to do with the huge mark up on "official" camera batteries at brick and mortar stores.... what's next? certified panasonic memmory cards? Just to make sure, you know.... those brick and mortar stores don't go out of business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I 'm sure it has nothing to do with the huge mark up on " official " camera batteries at brick and mortar stores.... what 's next ?
certified panasonic memmory cards ?
Just to make sure , you know.... those brick and mortar stores do n't go out of business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I'm sure it has nothing to do with the huge mark up on "official" camera batteries at brick and mortar stores.... what's next?
certified panasonic memmory cards?
Just to make sure, you know.... those brick and mortar stores don't go out of business.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457013</id>
	<title>No inherent problem</title>
	<author>winwar</author>
	<datestamp>1245874980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>with this as long as their batteries are reasonably priced.</p><p>If they go Lexmark, however....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>with this as long as their batteries are reasonably priced.If they go Lexmark , however... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>with this as long as their batteries are reasonably priced.If they go Lexmark, however....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459601</id>
	<title>If it's for my convenience and safety</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1245841620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why can't I turn it off?</p><p>I can decide to turn off my airbag. I can decide to turn off my antivirus suit (or I can decide not to use one altogether). I can decide to keep my alarm off when I leave the house. Why can't I decide to use inferior, crappy batteries, knowing well that I put my camera, the picture quality and maybe the life of my dog at risk?</p><p>Another thing that crossed my mind: Is a firmware update that cripples part of the system grounds for a return, even after use for a prolonged period of time? Unless the update is reversible, the camera might cease to work for me. I probably bought the camera under the impression that the feature that was removed was part of the deal, it might have been a critical deciding factor in my choice. If it is, we'll see a lot of happy customers who can toss a dated piece of electronics, get the full price returned and buy a new cam with more features. If it is not, we'll see a lot of companies that sell something, only to cripple it later when you can't back out from the sale. False advertising at a whole new level.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why ca n't I turn it off ? I can decide to turn off my airbag .
I can decide to turn off my antivirus suit ( or I can decide not to use one altogether ) .
I can decide to keep my alarm off when I leave the house .
Why ca n't I decide to use inferior , crappy batteries , knowing well that I put my camera , the picture quality and maybe the life of my dog at risk ? Another thing that crossed my mind : Is a firmware update that cripples part of the system grounds for a return , even after use for a prolonged period of time ?
Unless the update is reversible , the camera might cease to work for me .
I probably bought the camera under the impression that the feature that was removed was part of the deal , it might have been a critical deciding factor in my choice .
If it is , we 'll see a lot of happy customers who can toss a dated piece of electronics , get the full price returned and buy a new cam with more features .
If it is not , we 'll see a lot of companies that sell something , only to cripple it later when you ca n't back out from the sale .
False advertising at a whole new level .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why can't I turn it off?I can decide to turn off my airbag.
I can decide to turn off my antivirus suit (or I can decide not to use one altogether).
I can decide to keep my alarm off when I leave the house.
Why can't I decide to use inferior, crappy batteries, knowing well that I put my camera, the picture quality and maybe the life of my dog at risk?Another thing that crossed my mind: Is a firmware update that cripples part of the system grounds for a return, even after use for a prolonged period of time?
Unless the update is reversible, the camera might cease to work for me.
I probably bought the camera under the impression that the feature that was removed was part of the deal, it might have been a critical deciding factor in my choice.
If it is, we'll see a lot of happy customers who can toss a dated piece of electronics, get the full price returned and buy a new cam with more features.
If it is not, we'll see a lot of companies that sell something, only to cripple it later when you can't back out from the sale.
False advertising at a whole new level.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459737</id>
	<title>Later for that</title>
	<author>flameproof</author>
	<datestamp>1245842340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>See, that's why I like thrift stores.  Today on a lark I went to the local Goodwill and picked up a rockin' no-name point &amp; shoot 35mm for like, $2.  Film, battery and developing will probably run about $10 total and I get to hold nice, weirdly uber-colored, glossy photos in my hand as opposed to looking at them (as most people do) from the back of a digital camera on a tiny screen.  Analog rocks and Panasonic can kiss my gritty iso 100 butt.</htmltext>
<tokenext>See , that 's why I like thrift stores .
Today on a lark I went to the local Goodwill and picked up a rockin ' no-name point &amp; shoot 35mm for like , $ 2 .
Film , battery and developing will probably run about $ 10 total and I get to hold nice , weirdly uber-colored , glossy photos in my hand as opposed to looking at them ( as most people do ) from the back of a digital camera on a tiny screen .
Analog rocks and Panasonic can kiss my gritty iso 100 butt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See, that's why I like thrift stores.
Today on a lark I went to the local Goodwill and picked up a rockin' no-name point &amp; shoot 35mm for like, $2.
Film, battery and developing will probably run about $10 total and I get to hold nice, weirdly uber-colored, glossy photos in my hand as opposed to looking at them (as most people do) from the back of a digital camera on a tiny screen.
Analog rocks and Panasonic can kiss my gritty iso 100 butt.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28466981</id>
	<title>Goodbye Panasonic</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245947940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Say goodbye to the Panasonic camera market.  I won't be buying one of these pieces of crap.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Say goodbye to the Panasonic camera market .
I wo n't be buying one of these pieces of crap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Say goodbye to the Panasonic camera market.
I won't be buying one of these pieces of crap.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462309</id>
	<title>*sigh* I was wondering how long this would take...</title>
	<author>BillX</author>
	<datestamp>1245859260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sadly, the "DMCA-enabled battery" asshattery is not a new idea - well-known chipmakers such as Dallas-Maxim have been pushing cryptographic battery-lockout and ID chips directly to electronic engineering departments for years now. I've been personally <a href="http://tim.cexx.org/?p=243" title="cexx.org">seeing these ads</a> [cexx.org] in EE trade rags since at least '06. And yes, they trot out the claim that it will "improve safety" by locking out "inferior knockoff" batteries (or more to the point, shield you from liability), and that it's totally not a vendor lock-in thing at all. Sadly, part of me is actually surprised that it took this long for a mainstream manufacturer to take the bait.

Anyway, we know how it will end (Sega v. Accolade, Lexmark vs. SCC, Magnuson-Moss Act, as other posters have pointed out), but you already know who foots the bill for the <i>de rigeur</i> years of lawyering it will take to reach that zero-sum result.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sadly , the " DMCA-enabled battery " asshattery is not a new idea - well-known chipmakers such as Dallas-Maxim have been pushing cryptographic battery-lockout and ID chips directly to electronic engineering departments for years now .
I 've been personally seeing these ads [ cexx.org ] in EE trade rags since at least '06 .
And yes , they trot out the claim that it will " improve safety " by locking out " inferior knockoff " batteries ( or more to the point , shield you from liability ) , and that it 's totally not a vendor lock-in thing at all .
Sadly , part of me is actually surprised that it took this long for a mainstream manufacturer to take the bait .
Anyway , we know how it will end ( Sega v. Accolade , Lexmark vs. SCC , Magnuson-Moss Act , as other posters have pointed out ) , but you already know who foots the bill for the de rigeur years of lawyering it will take to reach that zero-sum result .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sadly, the "DMCA-enabled battery" asshattery is not a new idea - well-known chipmakers such as Dallas-Maxim have been pushing cryptographic battery-lockout and ID chips directly to electronic engineering departments for years now.
I've been personally seeing these ads [cexx.org] in EE trade rags since at least '06.
And yes, they trot out the claim that it will "improve safety" by locking out "inferior knockoff" batteries (or more to the point, shield you from liability), and that it's totally not a vendor lock-in thing at all.
Sadly, part of me is actually surprised that it took this long for a mainstream manufacturer to take the bait.
Anyway, we know how it will end (Sega v. Accolade, Lexmark vs. SCC, Magnuson-Moss Act, as other posters have pointed out), but you already know who foots the bill for the de rigeur years of lawyering it will take to reach that zero-sum result.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457685</id>
	<title>Re:Standards?</title>
	<author>compro01</author>
	<datestamp>1245834300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The same standards Sony follows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The same standards Sony follows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The same standards Sony follows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457075</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457785</id>
	<title>Re:I am in the market for a new camera.</title>
	<author>Devout\_IPUite</author>
	<datestamp>1245834780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seconded</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seconded</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seconded</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456997</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457603</id>
	<title>Re:Lock is anticompetitive, not consumer prot'n</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1245834000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries, it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.</i> </p><p>Six of one, a half dozen of the other.</p><p> Panasonic is a giant.</p><p> You might know it better as Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.</p><p> Founded in 1918.</p><p> Revenues of $82 billion a year. 330,000 employees.</p><p> Merging with Sanyo - combined revenues $110 billion a year. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panasonic" title="wikipedia.org">Panasonic</a> [wikipedia.org] </p><p>The chances that your licensed - certified - battery will undercut Panasonic on price are negligible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries , it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers .
Six of one , a half dozen of the other .
Panasonic is a giant .
You might know it better as Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. , Ltd. Founded in 1918 .
Revenues of $ 82 billion a year .
330,000 employees .
Merging with Sanyo - combined revenues $ 110 billion a year .
Panasonic [ wikipedia.org ] The chances that your licensed - certified - battery will undercut Panasonic on price are negligible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries, it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.
Six of one, a half dozen of the other.
Panasonic is a giant.
You might know it better as Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. Founded in 1918.
Revenues of $82 billion a year.
330,000 employees.
Merging with Sanyo - combined revenues $110 billion a year.
Panasonic [wikipedia.org] The chances that your licensed - certified - battery will undercut Panasonic on price are negligible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457047</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456965</id>
	<title>SECIONDS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245874800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>seconds</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>seconds</tokentext>
<sentencetext>seconds</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460341</id>
	<title>Also</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245845400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Panasonic has determined that electricity from non-Panasonic power plants is detrimental to the environment.  You are only allowed to charge your genuine Panasonic battery from a genuine Panasonic power plant.  Panasonic Power Plants&#226; use only the finest ingredients which makes the power much cleaner and purer.  It also makes the power cost 150\% more.  but that's the price of pure.</p><p>If you plug the charger into a non-Panasonic outlet, the camera will give you an error message, erase all your pictures, and send your information to the local "child molester" database.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Panasonic has determined that electricity from non-Panasonic power plants is detrimental to the environment .
You are only allowed to charge your genuine Panasonic battery from a genuine Panasonic power plant .
Panasonic Power Plants   use only the finest ingredients which makes the power much cleaner and purer .
It also makes the power cost 150 \ % more .
but that 's the price of pure.If you plug the charger into a non-Panasonic outlet , the camera will give you an error message , erase all your pictures , and send your information to the local " child molester " database .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Panasonic has determined that electricity from non-Panasonic power plants is detrimental to the environment.
You are only allowed to charge your genuine Panasonic battery from a genuine Panasonic power plant.
Panasonic Power Plantsâ use only the finest ingredients which makes the power much cleaner and purer.
It also makes the power cost 150\% more.
but that's the price of pure.If you plug the charger into a non-Panasonic outlet, the camera will give you an error message, erase all your pictures, and send your information to the local "child molester" database.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457909</id>
	<title>No Thermistors</title>
	<author>Hammer79</author>
	<datestamp>1245835260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I use third party Li-ion camera batteries in my electronics projects to provide portable, rechargeable power solutions, and most of the cheap knock-offs will have the same pins; Positive, Negative and Thermistor. However, the Thermistor pin will just be hooking into an internal 10K resistor that doesn't change with temperature. The battery will still fit in the camera, but the temp sense pin is merely a dummy pin. From that perspective, I can see a safety concern... In this case though, I think Panasonic is just trying to tie their camera to their preferred battery suppliers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I use third party Li-ion camera batteries in my electronics projects to provide portable , rechargeable power solutions , and most of the cheap knock-offs will have the same pins ; Positive , Negative and Thermistor .
However , the Thermistor pin will just be hooking into an internal 10K resistor that does n't change with temperature .
The battery will still fit in the camera , but the temp sense pin is merely a dummy pin .
From that perspective , I can see a safety concern... In this case though , I think Panasonic is just trying to tie their camera to their preferred battery suppliers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use third party Li-ion camera batteries in my electronics projects to provide portable, rechargeable power solutions, and most of the cheap knock-offs will have the same pins; Positive, Negative and Thermistor.
However, the Thermistor pin will just be hooking into an internal 10K resistor that doesn't change with temperature.
The battery will still fit in the camera, but the temp sense pin is merely a dummy pin.
From that perspective, I can see a safety concern... In this case though, I think Panasonic is just trying to tie their camera to their preferred battery suppliers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459823</id>
	<title>My Digital Olympus uses...</title>
	<author>Nom du Keyboard</author>
	<datestamp>1245842820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>My digital Olympus uses rechargeable AA cells - which was one of my requirements when selecting a camera: No Funny Batteries.  NiMH 2500mAh cells run about $10 per 4, and my responsible 2-hour charger handles them all.  And in a pinch I can use disposable cells with it. Why anyone would would want anything else is foolish, despite how thin it might make the camera.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My digital Olympus uses rechargeable AA cells - which was one of my requirements when selecting a camera : No Funny Batteries .
NiMH 2500mAh cells run about $ 10 per 4 , and my responsible 2-hour charger handles them all .
And in a pinch I can use disposable cells with it .
Why anyone would would want anything else is foolish , despite how thin it might make the camera .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My digital Olympus uses rechargeable AA cells - which was one of my requirements when selecting a camera: No Funny Batteries.
NiMH 2500mAh cells run about $10 per 4, and my responsible 2-hour charger handles them all.
And in a pinch I can use disposable cells with it.
Why anyone would would want anything else is foolish, despite how thin it might make the camera.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458249</id>
	<title>This is unlikely to stick</title>
	<author>n4djs</author>
	<datestamp>1245836520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>
This is likely to go down a similar path to the Lexmark vs. Static Control Components case - the court said that
copywrite protections don't apply when they are required for plug compatibility.

<br>See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark\_Int'l\_v.\_Static\_Control\_Components" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark\_Int'l\_v.\_Static\_Control\_Components</a> [wikipedia.org] for more details.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is likely to go down a similar path to the Lexmark vs. Static Control Components case - the court said that copywrite protections do n't apply when they are required for plug compatibility .
See http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark \ _Int'l \ _v. \ _Static \ _Control \ _Components [ wikipedia.org ] for more details .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
This is likely to go down a similar path to the Lexmark vs. Static Control Components case - the court said that
copywrite protections don't apply when they are required for plug compatibility.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark\_Int'l\_v.\_Static\_Control\_Components [wikipedia.org] for more details.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28463061</id>
	<title>Re:If I can't use common batteries, forget it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245867720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree 100\%!  I will not buy anything that uses a non-standard battery.  I believe that any battery powered device should be designed to use standard AA or AAA NiMH rechargeable batteries as well as AA or AAA Alkaline batteries.  Many portable CD players say in the instructions not to use rechargeable batteries, yet rechargeable NiMH batteries will power them just as well, if not better than Alkaline batteries.</p><p>Panasonic just wants to lock out competition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree 100 \ % !
I will not buy anything that uses a non-standard battery .
I believe that any battery powered device should be designed to use standard AA or AAA NiMH rechargeable batteries as well as AA or AAA Alkaline batteries .
Many portable CD players say in the instructions not to use rechargeable batteries , yet rechargeable NiMH batteries will power them just as well , if not better than Alkaline batteries.Panasonic just wants to lock out competition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree 100\%!
I will not buy anything that uses a non-standard battery.
I believe that any battery powered device should be designed to use standard AA or AAA NiMH rechargeable batteries as well as AA or AAA Alkaline batteries.
Many portable CD players say in the instructions not to use rechargeable batteries, yet rechargeable NiMH batteries will power them just as well, if not better than Alkaline batteries.Panasonic just wants to lock out competition.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458581</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459833</id>
	<title>Re:If I can't use common batteries, forget it</title>
	<author>Rich0</author>
	<datestamp>1245842880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As others have pointed out, AAs have their limitations.  However, this really just points to a need for a few more battery standards for modern electronics.</p><p>Rather than everybody who comes out with a device inventing a new battery design, why not invent a few more standard cell sizes with standardized voltages?  You could even write up charging specifications for them.</p><p>If there is a concern that charging specs would stifle new battery designs, then just specify the voltages and minimum capacities.  Then design the physical shape so that any battery will plug into any device, but batteries will be keyed to specific models of chargers so that the charging specs can vary by make/model.  That isn't actually hard to do - put a pattern of bumps/grooves on the battery, and matching bumps/grooves in the charger, and then a big empty spot on devices so that any pattern will fit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As others have pointed out , AAs have their limitations .
However , this really just points to a need for a few more battery standards for modern electronics.Rather than everybody who comes out with a device inventing a new battery design , why not invent a few more standard cell sizes with standardized voltages ?
You could even write up charging specifications for them.If there is a concern that charging specs would stifle new battery designs , then just specify the voltages and minimum capacities .
Then design the physical shape so that any battery will plug into any device , but batteries will be keyed to specific models of chargers so that the charging specs can vary by make/model .
That is n't actually hard to do - put a pattern of bumps/grooves on the battery , and matching bumps/grooves in the charger , and then a big empty spot on devices so that any pattern will fit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As others have pointed out, AAs have their limitations.
However, this really just points to a need for a few more battery standards for modern electronics.Rather than everybody who comes out with a device inventing a new battery design, why not invent a few more standard cell sizes with standardized voltages?
You could even write up charging specifications for them.If there is a concern that charging specs would stifle new battery designs, then just specify the voltages and minimum capacities.
Then design the physical shape so that any battery will plug into any device, but batteries will be keyed to specific models of chargers so that the charging specs can vary by make/model.
That isn't actually hard to do - put a pattern of bumps/grooves on the battery, and matching bumps/grooves in the charger, and then a big empty spot on devices so that any pattern will fit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458921</id>
	<title>Re:Standards?</title>
	<author>TubeSteak</author>
	<datestamp>1245838800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It would be interesting to see what standards they refer to. Is that a trade secret?</p></div><p>Many cheap li-ion batteries do not include the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium\_ion\_battery#Protection\_circuits\_required" title="wikipedia.org">protection circuits</a> [wikipedia.org] or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium\_ion\_battery#Safety\_features" title="wikipedia.org">safety features</a> [wikipedia.org] that keep li-ions from going flat or turning into bombs.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It would be interesting to see what standards they refer to .
Is that a trade secret ? Many cheap li-ion batteries do not include the protection circuits [ wikipedia.org ] or safety features [ wikipedia.org ] that keep li-ions from going flat or turning into bombs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would be interesting to see what standards they refer to.
Is that a trade secret?Many cheap li-ion batteries do not include the protection circuits [wikipedia.org] or safety features [wikipedia.org] that keep li-ions from going flat or turning into bombs.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457075</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458455</id>
	<title>Re:Grrrr.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245837060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Grammar Tip: 'Of' is a preposition. Do not use 'of' in the place of 'have' after verbs such as could, should, would, might and must.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Grammar Tip : 'Of ' is a preposition .
Do not use 'of ' in the place of 'have ' after verbs such as could , should , would , might and must .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Grammar Tip: 'Of' is a preposition.
Do not use 'of' in the place of 'have' after verbs such as could, should, would, might and must.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457099</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457637</id>
	<title>Re:If I can't use common batteries, forget it</title>
	<author>93 Escort Wagon</author>
	<datestamp>1245834120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Who needs Panasonic?  There are lots of choices out there.</p></div><p>You're assuming all the choices have equivalent feature sets, which is often not the case. One example: Panasonic's compact cameras frequently offer a wider angle lens than the equivalent competition. For some people (including myself), this can be a significant weight in Panasonic's favor.</p><p>I do think this move is rather annoying, though; and I wish such business behaviors were not legal.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who needs Panasonic ?
There are lots of choices out there.You 're assuming all the choices have equivalent feature sets , which is often not the case .
One example : Panasonic 's compact cameras frequently offer a wider angle lens than the equivalent competition .
For some people ( including myself ) , this can be a significant weight in Panasonic 's favor.I do think this move is rather annoying , though ; and I wish such business behaviors were not legal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who needs Panasonic?
There are lots of choices out there.You're assuming all the choices have equivalent feature sets, which is often not the case.
One example: Panasonic's compact cameras frequently offer a wider angle lens than the equivalent competition.
For some people (including myself), this can be a significant weight in Panasonic's favor.I do think this move is rather annoying, though; and I wish such business behaviors were not legal.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459293</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>WheelDweller</author>
	<datestamp>1245840120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, see this is "offering the customer what he wants", right?  The right to have batteries from one source, so the price? Sky's the limit.</p><p>Just like how we all asked for a mediocre PC operating system, one that comes with about 2,000,000 viruses to mess up our day's work, get our documents and dollars stolen, and have to pay someone to flush and fill it for $100 every once in a while.</p><p>Wait- was I the only one?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:&gt;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , see this is " offering the customer what he wants " , right ?
The right to have batteries from one source , so the price ?
Sky 's the limit.Just like how we all asked for a mediocre PC operating system , one that comes with about 2,000,000 viruses to mess up our day 's work , get our documents and dollars stolen , and have to pay someone to flush and fill it for $ 100 every once in a while.Wait- was I the only one ?
: &gt;</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, see this is "offering the customer what he wants", right?
The right to have batteries from one source, so the price?
Sky's the limit.Just like how we all asked for a mediocre PC operating system, one that comes with about 2,000,000 viruses to mess up our day's work, get our documents and dollars stolen, and have to pay someone to flush and fill it for $100 every once in a while.Wait- was I the only one?
:&gt;</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456943</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457827</id>
	<title>Maybe it's not what it seems like...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245834960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe they're not doing this to make a buck. If they were doing it to make a buck it strikes me that they wouldn't be so up-front and honest about what the latest firmware update will do to your camera.  Perhaps they are just genuinely that uppity and believe that if 3rd party batteries can't meet their quality and safety regulations, then they have to protect their devices from that. It's still not a good reason, but certainly better than screwing over the general population for the sake of making an extra buck.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe they 're not doing this to make a buck .
If they were doing it to make a buck it strikes me that they would n't be so up-front and honest about what the latest firmware update will do to your camera .
Perhaps they are just genuinely that uppity and believe that if 3rd party batteries ca n't meet their quality and safety regulations , then they have to protect their devices from that .
It 's still not a good reason , but certainly better than screwing over the general population for the sake of making an extra buck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe they're not doing this to make a buck.
If they were doing it to make a buck it strikes me that they wouldn't be so up-front and honest about what the latest firmware update will do to your camera.
Perhaps they are just genuinely that uppity and believe that if 3rd party batteries can't meet their quality and safety regulations, then they have to protect their devices from that.
It's still not a good reason, but certainly better than screwing over the general population for the sake of making an extra buck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457009</id>
	<title>Asspirates...</title>
	<author>skuzzlebutt</author>
	<datestamp>1245874980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I bet Sony is next. They love proprietary hardware and formats. Asspirates, all of them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I bet Sony is next .
They love proprietary hardware and formats .
Asspirates , all of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bet Sony is next.
They love proprietary hardware and formats.
Asspirates, all of them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28463647</id>
	<title>Re:Norelco did this for years</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1245961200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a rechargeable shaver run out half way through removing a full beard.  Half was the left half of my face, so I couldn't exactly leave it like that.  And this was an hour before an important formal party.  If I'd been a pro shooting a wedding I could hardly turn up looking like <a href="http://www.saynotocrack.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/half-beard.gif" title="saynotocrack.com">this</a> [saynotocrack.com]</p><p>Luckily I was able to borrow one from another guy in the dorm.  Since then I always did a bit either side so if it does conk out, at least I'm symmetrical.  And the next time I bought a shaver, I got one that runs on AAs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a rechargeable shaver run out half way through removing a full beard .
Half was the left half of my face , so I could n't exactly leave it like that .
And this was an hour before an important formal party .
If I 'd been a pro shooting a wedding I could hardly turn up looking like this [ saynotocrack.com ] Luckily I was able to borrow one from another guy in the dorm .
Since then I always did a bit either side so if it does conk out , at least I 'm symmetrical .
And the next time I bought a shaver , I got one that runs on AAs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a rechargeable shaver run out half way through removing a full beard.
Half was the left half of my face, so I couldn't exactly leave it like that.
And this was an hour before an important formal party.
If I'd been a pro shooting a wedding I could hardly turn up looking like this [saynotocrack.com]Luckily I was able to borrow one from another guy in the dorm.
Since then I always did a bit either side so if it does conk out, at least I'm symmetrical.
And the next time I bought a shaver, I got one that runs on AAs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459395</id>
	<title>Re:If I can't use common batteries, forget it</title>
	<author>TheGratefulNet</author>
	<datestamp>1245840720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>pro cameras are NOT meant for alkalines or even AA batts of whatever type.</p><p>pro cams are meant to have quick change batts.  you know, a SINGLE module.</p><p>how many AA's do you want to fumble with?  and then get one in wrong and have to fix it?</p><p>sorry, no pro does this in the field.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>pro cameras are NOT meant for alkalines or even AA batts of whatever type.pro cams are meant to have quick change batts .
you know , a SINGLE module.how many AA 's do you want to fumble with ?
and then get one in wrong and have to fix it ? sorry , no pro does this in the field .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>pro cameras are NOT meant for alkalines or even AA batts of whatever type.pro cams are meant to have quick change batts.
you know, a SINGLE module.how many AA's do you want to fumble with?
and then get one in wrong and have to fix it?sorry, no pro does this in the field.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457837</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1245835020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>There goes Panasonic off my list for an upcoming camera buy.</i> </p><p>You won't be missed.</p><p>The geek isn't their market.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There goes Panasonic off my list for an upcoming camera buy .
You wo n't be missed.The geek is n't their market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There goes Panasonic off my list for an upcoming camera buy.
You won't be missed.The geek isn't their market.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460967</id>
	<title>Canon and AA Cells</title>
	<author>Gim Tom</author>
	<datestamp>1245848880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have bought two digital cameras in the last couple of years and both have been Canon.  Two reasons.  First both cameras take AA batteries -- either Alkaline or Nickle metal hydride.  Second is that the firmware in the camera is upgradeable and there are upgrades from sources other than Canon.  Now I have not upgraded the firmware, and have no plans right now to do so -- but at least Canon did not weld the hood shut!   The ability to use standard batteries was the BIGGEST single factor in selecting these two cameras.  If Panasonic wants to go lock down proprietary then they are off my list of possibles from the beginning.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have bought two digital cameras in the last couple of years and both have been Canon .
Two reasons .
First both cameras take AA batteries -- either Alkaline or Nickle metal hydride .
Second is that the firmware in the camera is upgradeable and there are upgrades from sources other than Canon .
Now I have not upgraded the firmware , and have no plans right now to do so -- but at least Canon did not weld the hood shut !
The ability to use standard batteries was the BIGGEST single factor in selecting these two cameras .
If Panasonic wants to go lock down proprietary then they are off my list of possibles from the beginning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have bought two digital cameras in the last couple of years and both have been Canon.
Two reasons.
First both cameras take AA batteries -- either Alkaline or Nickle metal hydride.
Second is that the firmware in the camera is upgradeable and there are upgrades from sources other than Canon.
Now I have not upgraded the firmware, and have no plans right now to do so -- but at least Canon did not weld the hood shut!
The ability to use standard batteries was the BIGGEST single factor in selecting these two cameras.
If Panasonic wants to go lock down proprietary then they are off my list of possibles from the beginning.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458979</id>
	<title>didnt Sony just write a $490 mil check for this?</title>
	<author>scrout</author>
	<datestamp>1245838980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
Li-ion can be a MF'er for safety, as noted by Sonys recall.
Don't get your nuts a in bunch, just dont sue if your cheap ass batteries burn your nuts off.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Li-ion can be a MF'er for safety , as noted by Sonys recall .
Do n't get your nuts a in bunch , just dont sue if your cheap ass batteries burn your nuts off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Li-ion can be a MF'er for safety, as noted by Sonys recall.
Don't get your nuts a in bunch, just dont sue if your cheap ass batteries burn your nuts off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28461629</id>
	<title>No 3d camera batteries?</title>
	<author>ailnlv</author>
	<datestamp>1245854340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where am i going to get a flat battery for my camera?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where am i going to get a flat battery for my camera ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where am i going to get a flat battery for my camera?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458793</id>
	<title>Re:Expect to see this "feature" soon on your 'pod.</title>
	<author>NormalVisual</author>
	<datestamp>1245838320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>When was the last time you saw a 'pod with a user replaceable battery.</i> <br> <br>

When I left for work this morning.  My 1st gen iPod has an aftermarket battery in it.  No, it wasn't Apple's intention to let me change it, but when it died a year after purchasing the device, I wasn't going to spend that kind of money getting it replaced because of Apple's poor design decision, so I cracked the case open and did it myself.  That was about 7-8 years ago, and that aftermarket battery is still going strong, unlike the original Apple part.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When was the last time you saw a 'pod with a user replaceable battery .
When I left for work this morning .
My 1st gen iPod has an aftermarket battery in it .
No , it was n't Apple 's intention to let me change it , but when it died a year after purchasing the device , I was n't going to spend that kind of money getting it replaced because of Apple 's poor design decision , so I cracked the case open and did it myself .
That was about 7-8 years ago , and that aftermarket battery is still going strong , unlike the original Apple part .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When was the last time you saw a 'pod with a user replaceable battery.
When I left for work this morning.
My 1st gen iPod has an aftermarket battery in it.
No, it wasn't Apple's intention to let me change it, but when it died a year after purchasing the device, I wasn't going to spend that kind of money getting it replaced because of Apple's poor design decision, so I cracked the case open and did it myself.
That was about 7-8 years ago, and that aftermarket battery is still going strong, unlike the original Apple part.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458015</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457267</id>
	<title>Norelco did this for years</title>
	<author>davidwr</author>
	<datestamp>1245875940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why not just build the battery right into the camera. End of story.</p><p>Battery problems? Take your camera to an authorized Panasonic repair shop...</p></div><p>Norelco did this for years with their electric shavers.  I'm not sure if they still do.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not just build the battery right into the camera .
End of story.Battery problems ?
Take your camera to an authorized Panasonic repair shop...Norelco did this for years with their electric shavers .
I 'm not sure if they still do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not just build the battery right into the camera.
End of story.Battery problems?
Take your camera to an authorized Panasonic repair shop...Norelco did this for years with their electric shavers.
I'm not sure if they still do.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28464435</id>
	<title>Re:I am in the market for a new camera.</title>
	<author>Aldric</author>
	<datestamp>1245928200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cheap printer cartridges do not have a tendency to go up in flames or explode.
<p>
Cheap lithium batteries are usually manufactured with little or no heed given to safety standards. There may be a chemical imbalance in the cell or the cell wall may be too rigid to permit any expansion from gas produced as the battery discharges.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cheap printer cartridges do not have a tendency to go up in flames or explode .
Cheap lithium batteries are usually manufactured with little or no heed given to safety standards .
There may be a chemical imbalance in the cell or the cell wall may be too rigid to permit any expansion from gas produced as the battery discharges .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cheap printer cartridges do not have a tendency to go up in flames or explode.
Cheap lithium batteries are usually manufactured with little or no heed given to safety standards.
There may be a chemical imbalance in the cell or the cell wall may be too rigid to permit any expansion from gas produced as the battery discharges.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456997</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457323</id>
	<title>Kind of like pumping your own gas in oregon</title>
	<author>goffster</author>
	<datestamp>1245876180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The "official" reason why you are not allowed to pump your own gas in Oregon<br>is that oregon pavement is wet and hazardous, and only trained grunt's can navigate<br>the treacherous pavement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The " official " reason why you are not allowed to pump your own gas in Oregonis that oregon pavement is wet and hazardous , and only trained grunt 's can navigatethe treacherous pavement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "official" reason why you are not allowed to pump your own gas in Oregonis that oregon pavement is wet and hazardous, and only trained grunt's can navigatethe treacherous pavement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28465841</id>
	<title>Re:Lock is anticompetitive, not consumer prot'n</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1245942120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The reason Panasonic is doing this, in addition to ensuring battery sales, is that usually cheap 3rd party li-ion batteries don't include the current limiting circuitry that prevents overcharging and/or thermal runaway.</p></div><p>The reason Panasonic is doing this, in addition to ensuring battery sales, is <em>ensuring more battery sales</em>. There, fixed that for you. Guess what? Panasonic is already allowed to refuse you warranty coverage if you use a battery which does not meet their standards; by doing this however, they have basically granted the right (at least in the US) to make your battery identify as a true Panasonic battery under <em>Sega v. Accolade</em>. The DMCA explicitly protects reverse-engineering for the purpose of interoperability, so that part of the project is legally protected. Finally, the Magnusson-Moss warranty act explicitly prohibits refusing warranty coverage when someone uses a compatible replacement part or other consumable (like, say, engine oil.) Panasonic has opened itself up for a gigantic legal SNAFU, and trust me, it's 100\% about selling you batteries.</p><p>I had a Panasonic digital camera once, and it was an unmitigated piece of shit. I can't imagine that anyone would buy them anyway. But now there is even less reason to do so. Personally, I try to buy cameras that take AAs; you can get AAs and a matching charger anywhere in the world that you can find an electrical outlet.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason Panasonic is doing this , in addition to ensuring battery sales , is that usually cheap 3rd party li-ion batteries do n't include the current limiting circuitry that prevents overcharging and/or thermal runaway.The reason Panasonic is doing this , in addition to ensuring battery sales , is ensuring more battery sales .
There , fixed that for you .
Guess what ?
Panasonic is already allowed to refuse you warranty coverage if you use a battery which does not meet their standards ; by doing this however , they have basically granted the right ( at least in the US ) to make your battery identify as a true Panasonic battery under Sega v. Accolade. The DMCA explicitly protects reverse-engineering for the purpose of interoperability , so that part of the project is legally protected .
Finally , the Magnusson-Moss warranty act explicitly prohibits refusing warranty coverage when someone uses a compatible replacement part or other consumable ( like , say , engine oil .
) Panasonic has opened itself up for a gigantic legal SNAFU , and trust me , it 's 100 \ % about selling you batteries.I had a Panasonic digital camera once , and it was an unmitigated piece of shit .
I ca n't imagine that anyone would buy them anyway .
But now there is even less reason to do so .
Personally , I try to buy cameras that take AAs ; you can get AAs and a matching charger anywhere in the world that you can find an electrical outlet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason Panasonic is doing this, in addition to ensuring battery sales, is that usually cheap 3rd party li-ion batteries don't include the current limiting circuitry that prevents overcharging and/or thermal runaway.The reason Panasonic is doing this, in addition to ensuring battery sales, is ensuring more battery sales.
There, fixed that for you.
Guess what?
Panasonic is already allowed to refuse you warranty coverage if you use a battery which does not meet their standards; by doing this however, they have basically granted the right (at least in the US) to make your battery identify as a true Panasonic battery under Sega v. Accolade. The DMCA explicitly protects reverse-engineering for the purpose of interoperability, so that part of the project is legally protected.
Finally, the Magnusson-Moss warranty act explicitly prohibits refusing warranty coverage when someone uses a compatible replacement part or other consumable (like, say, engine oil.
) Panasonic has opened itself up for a gigantic legal SNAFU, and trust me, it's 100\% about selling you batteries.I had a Panasonic digital camera once, and it was an unmitigated piece of shit.
I can't imagine that anyone would buy them anyway.
But now there is even less reason to do so.
Personally, I try to buy cameras that take AAs; you can get AAs and a matching charger anywhere in the world that you can find an electrical outlet.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458815</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28476119</id>
	<title>Re:Countdown to FTC action...</title>
	<author>Nesman64</author>
	<datestamp>1245941100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In 5...4...3...2...</p></div><p>Years?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In 5...4...3...2...Years ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In 5...4...3...2...Years?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457315</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28467723</id>
	<title>For bunnies sakes....</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1245950940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Companies making radios, torchlights, wireless keyboards and mice and countless other devices can use standard batteries without any issues.</p><p>Panasonic, and any other brain dead manufacturers that think we are stupid,  should get out of the business of policing the battery industry (yeah right, they do it only to protect their consumers) and leave battery safety and regulation to trade government agencies and consumer advocates.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Companies making radios , torchlights , wireless keyboards and mice and countless other devices can use standard batteries without any issues.Panasonic , and any other brain dead manufacturers that think we are stupid , should get out of the business of policing the battery industry ( yeah right , they do it only to protect their consumers ) and leave battery safety and regulation to trade government agencies and consumer advocates .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Companies making radios, torchlights, wireless keyboards and mice and countless other devices can use standard batteries without any issues.Panasonic, and any other brain dead manufacturers that think we are stupid,  should get out of the business of policing the battery industry (yeah right, they do it only to protect their consumers) and leave battery safety and regulation to trade government agencies and consumer advocates.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28498523</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>Khyber</author>
	<datestamp>1246103160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Smart buyers know how to research products and know how to avoid rip-off knockoffs.</p><p>Granted, that effectively eliminates 90\% of the population.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Smart buyers know how to research products and know how to avoid rip-off knockoffs.Granted , that effectively eliminates 90 \ % of the population .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Smart buyers know how to research products and know how to avoid rip-off knockoffs.Granted, that effectively eliminates 90\% of the population.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28464025</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</id>
	<title>Maybe good justification</title>
	<author>McGregorMortis</author>
	<datestamp>1245875400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The justification they offer for this is not necessarily illegitimate.</p><p>If the camera has a built-in charger, then there is a very real possibility of battery fires or explosions if a 3rd-party battery doesn't match the characteristics that the charger was designed for.  If you don't believe that can happen, then I suggest you review all the stories of exploding laptop batteries.  It can and does happen.</p><p>On the other hand, if there is no built-in charger (my Canon cameras don't have built-in chargers), then they are definitely first-rate ass-pirates and players of the pink oboe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The justification they offer for this is not necessarily illegitimate.If the camera has a built-in charger , then there is a very real possibility of battery fires or explosions if a 3rd-party battery does n't match the characteristics that the charger was designed for .
If you do n't believe that can happen , then I suggest you review all the stories of exploding laptop batteries .
It can and does happen.On the other hand , if there is no built-in charger ( my Canon cameras do n't have built-in chargers ) , then they are definitely first-rate ass-pirates and players of the pink oboe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The justification they offer for this is not necessarily illegitimate.If the camera has a built-in charger, then there is a very real possibility of battery fires or explosions if a 3rd-party battery doesn't match the characteristics that the charger was designed for.
If you don't believe that can happen, then I suggest you review all the stories of exploding laptop batteries.
It can and does happen.On the other hand, if there is no built-in charger (my Canon cameras don't have built-in chargers), then they are definitely first-rate ass-pirates and players of the pink oboe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457513</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe good justification</title>
	<author>10101001 10101001</author>
	<datestamp>1245876900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In related news, Sony has announced that it will be installing new firmware locking-out Sony batteries in their laptops, citing safety concerns.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In related news , Sony has announced that it will be installing new firmware locking-out Sony batteries in their laptops , citing safety concerns .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In related news, Sony has announced that it will be installing new firmware locking-out Sony batteries in their laptops, citing safety concerns.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457047</id>
	<title>Lock is anticompetitive, not consumer prot'n</title>
	<author>debrain</author>
	<datestamp>1245875040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries, it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.</p><p>Locking out competition to create an artificial tie-in between the camera and the battery is anti-competitive, in my opinion. There are ways to ensure the safety of customers without a tie-in that undermines market-based competition.</p><p>Mind you, I only read the blurb- I don't know the details of what Panasonic is proposing. But the summary seems telling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries , it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.Locking out competition to create an artificial tie-in between the camera and the battery is anti-competitive , in my opinion .
There are ways to ensure the safety of customers without a tie-in that undermines market-based competition.Mind you , I only read the blurb- I do n't know the details of what Panasonic is proposing .
But the summary seems telling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries, it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.Locking out competition to create an artificial tie-in between the camera and the battery is anti-competitive, in my opinion.
There are ways to ensure the safety of customers without a tie-in that undermines market-based competition.Mind you, I only read the blurb- I don't know the details of what Panasonic is proposing.
But the summary seems telling.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457033</id>
	<title>3d-Party?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245874980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's a 3D-Party and where can I sign up?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's a 3D-Party and where can I sign up ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's a 3D-Party and where can I sign up?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459901</id>
	<title>Re:Standards?</title>
	<author>Dachannien</author>
	<datestamp>1245843180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm pretty sure the rigid safety standard Panasonic is referring to is the one that causes the battery to operate properly with their camera firmware.  After all, anything else would be unsafe!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pretty sure the rigid safety standard Panasonic is referring to is the one that causes the battery to operate properly with their camera firmware .
After all , anything else would be unsafe !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pretty sure the rigid safety standard Panasonic is referring to is the one that causes the battery to operate properly with their camera firmware.
After all, anything else would be unsafe!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457075</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28463077</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245867840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't see that working well with the Chinese manufacturer of the cheap battery you bought on ebay.  I don't think reputable companies like Duracell make the kind of cheap replacement batteries for cameras that we're talking about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see that working well with the Chinese manufacturer of the cheap battery you bought on ebay .
I do n't think reputable companies like Duracell make the kind of cheap replacement batteries for cameras that we 're talking about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see that working well with the Chinese manufacturer of the cheap battery you bought on ebay.
I don't think reputable companies like Duracell make the kind of cheap replacement batteries for cameras that we're talking about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460083</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459239</id>
	<title>Re:I am in the market for a new camera.</title>
	<author>Tanktalus</author>
	<datestamp>1245839940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just to be fair, I have a similar problem with my two-year-old JVC Everio 30GB HDD camera.  Except that it won't accept the original battery, either.  And JVC thinks it's not their problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just to be fair , I have a similar problem with my two-year-old JVC Everio 30GB HDD camera .
Except that it wo n't accept the original battery , either .
And JVC thinks it 's not their problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just to be fair, I have a similar problem with my two-year-old JVC Everio 30GB HDD camera.
Except that it won't accept the original battery, either.
And JVC thinks it's not their problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456997</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457351</id>
	<title>If I can't use common batteries, forget it</title>
	<author>roc97007</author>
	<datestamp>1245876240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
If I can't use AA or AAA batteries (or some reasonable equivalent) I'm not interested.  Even my pro D-SLR has an adapter to use double As.
</p><p>
Just say no to crap like this.  Who needs Panasonic?  There are lots of choices out there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I ca n't use AA or AAA batteries ( or some reasonable equivalent ) I 'm not interested .
Even my pro D-SLR has an adapter to use double As .
Just say no to crap like this .
Who needs Panasonic ?
There are lots of choices out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
If I can't use AA or AAA batteries (or some reasonable equivalent) I'm not interested.
Even my pro D-SLR has an adapter to use double As.
Just say no to crap like this.
Who needs Panasonic?
There are lots of choices out there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462225</id>
	<title>Won't somebody...</title>
	<author>benow</author>
	<datestamp>1245858540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>... think of the children?!  Where am I going to go for my 3rd party battery explosion lottery kicks now?</htmltext>
<tokenext>... think of the children ? !
Where am I going to go for my 3rd party battery explosion lottery kicks now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... think of the children?!
Where am I going to go for my 3rd party battery explosion lottery kicks now?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458775</id>
	<title>Think of the Children...and hand me your wallet</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1245838260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>nuf sed</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>nuf sed</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nuf sed</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28472517</id>
	<title>Re:My Digital Olympus uses...</title>
	<author>I'm not really here</author>
	<datestamp>1245924960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's why I bought the Fuji Finepix A150 - extremely slim <i>and</i> uses double AAs. After loosing the proprietary camera charger for our other camera twice (and spending almost $30 each time to replace it), I decided spending $100 on a new camera that used AAs made a whole lot more financial sense.  It's been great, and I could bum some batteries off a friend when mine died, so I missed nothing at my mother's wedding last weekend.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's why I bought the Fuji Finepix A150 - extremely slim and uses double AAs .
After loosing the proprietary camera charger for our other camera twice ( and spending almost $ 30 each time to replace it ) , I decided spending $ 100 on a new camera that used AAs made a whole lot more financial sense .
It 's been great , and I could bum some batteries off a friend when mine died , so I missed nothing at my mother 's wedding last weekend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's why I bought the Fuji Finepix A150 - extremely slim and uses double AAs.
After loosing the proprietary camera charger for our other camera twice (and spending almost $30 each time to replace it), I decided spending $100 on a new camera that used AAs made a whole lot more financial sense.
It's been great, and I could bum some batteries off a friend when mine died, so I missed nothing at my mother's wedding last weekend.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459823</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457881</id>
	<title>Re:Lock is anticompetitive, not consumer prot'n</title>
	<author>The Empiricist</author>
	<datestamp>1245835140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries, it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.</p></div></blockquote><p>It is a bit easier to sell licenses if third parties are <b>also</b> unable to make compatible batteries without access to a particular technology.  Otherwise, third parties can simply put their competing products on the market without bothering to go through the certification process (anticipating that most consumers won't bother to look for the certification markings).</p><blockquote><div><p>Locking out competition to create an artificial tie-in between the camera and the battery is anti-competitive, in my opinion. There are ways to ensure the safety of customers without a tie-in that undermines market-based competition.</p></div></blockquote><p>The problem for Panasonic isn't just that third-party battery manufacturers might be lowering the cost of replacement batteries.  Some third-party battery manufacturers probably produce low-quality batteries and then <a href="http://www2.electronicproducts.com/The\_dangers\_of\_counterfeit\_battery\_packs-article-fapo\_MicroPower\_mar2009-html.aspx" title="electronicproducts.com">sell them as counterfeit Panasonic batteries</a> [electronicproducts.com].  If one of those batteries blows up, Panasonic gets all the blame even without being at fault because the injured consumer thought he or she had a Panasonic battery.</p><p>Fortunately, there is a big market for digital cameras with a fair number of suppliers.  Even if Panasonic is just trying to increase replacement battery profit margins, they can only go so far without consumers deciding to purchase cameras from someone else.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries , it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.It is a bit easier to sell licenses if third parties are also unable to make compatible batteries without access to a particular technology .
Otherwise , third parties can simply put their competing products on the market without bothering to go through the certification process ( anticipating that most consumers wo n't bother to look for the certification markings ) .Locking out competition to create an artificial tie-in between the camera and the battery is anti-competitive , in my opinion .
There are ways to ensure the safety of customers without a tie-in that undermines market-based competition.The problem for Panasonic is n't just that third-party battery manufacturers might be lowering the cost of replacement batteries .
Some third-party battery manufacturers probably produce low-quality batteries and then sell them as counterfeit Panasonic batteries [ electronicproducts.com ] .
If one of those batteries blows up , Panasonic gets all the blame even without being at fault because the injured consumer thought he or she had a Panasonic battery.Fortunately , there is a big market for digital cameras with a fair number of suppliers .
Even if Panasonic is just trying to increase replacement battery profit margins , they can only go so far without consumers deciding to purchase cameras from someone else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries, it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.It is a bit easier to sell licenses if third parties are also unable to make compatible batteries without access to a particular technology.
Otherwise, third parties can simply put their competing products on the market without bothering to go through the certification process (anticipating that most consumers won't bother to look for the certification markings).Locking out competition to create an artificial tie-in between the camera and the battery is anti-competitive, in my opinion.
There are ways to ensure the safety of customers without a tie-in that undermines market-based competition.The problem for Panasonic isn't just that third-party battery manufacturers might be lowering the cost of replacement batteries.
Some third-party battery manufacturers probably produce low-quality batteries and then sell them as counterfeit Panasonic batteries [electronicproducts.com].
If one of those batteries blows up, Panasonic gets all the blame even without being at fault because the injured consumer thought he or she had a Panasonic battery.Fortunately, there is a big market for digital cameras with a fair number of suppliers.
Even if Panasonic is just trying to increase replacement battery profit margins, they can only go so far without consumers deciding to purchase cameras from someone else.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457047</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28465745</id>
	<title>Sometimes the camera kills the battery</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245941580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a cheapie Vivitar digital camera.  It worked well enough, until one day it died -- it developed some kind of internal short that superheated the batteries.  It was REALLY hot.  Batteries did not split, leak, or pop.  In fact, they recharged ok.  Camera was quite dead, however.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a cheapie Vivitar digital camera .
It worked well enough , until one day it died -- it developed some kind of internal short that superheated the batteries .
It was REALLY hot .
Batteries did not split , leak , or pop .
In fact , they recharged ok. Camera was quite dead , however .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a cheapie Vivitar digital camera.
It worked well enough, until one day it died -- it developed some kind of internal short that superheated the batteries.
It was REALLY hot.
Batteries did not split, leak, or pop.
In fact, they recharged ok.  Camera was quite dead, however.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458621</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>EvilIdler</author>
	<datestamp>1245837600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Panasonic is not off my list yet, because I actually buy Panasonic AA and AAA batteries when I need new ones. They seem to last longer for me than Duracell.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Panasonic is not off my list yet , because I actually buy Panasonic AA and AAA batteries when I need new ones .
They seem to last longer for me than Duracell .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Panasonic is not off my list yet, because I actually buy Panasonic AA and AAA batteries when I need new ones.
They seem to last longer for me than Duracell.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462049</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe good justification</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245857400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How many cameras have built in chargers? I can't think of a single one, and I've looked at a lot. Who would design in the extra weight in a camera?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How many cameras have built in chargers ?
I ca n't think of a single one , and I 've looked at a lot .
Who would design in the extra weight in a camera ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many cameras have built in chargers?
I can't think of a single one, and I've looked at a lot.
Who would design in the extra weight in a camera?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457291</id>
	<title>However</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245876000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>they went at Mircrosoft for including internet explorer by default with no good way to delete it. Seriously?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they went at Mircrosoft for including internet explorer by default with no good way to delete it .
Seriously ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they went at Mircrosoft for including internet explorer by default with no good way to delete it.
Seriously?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462499</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>JBaustian</author>
	<datestamp>1245861000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What moron would buy a Panasonic camera anyway?<br><br>Or do they sell under another brand name?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What moron would buy a Panasonic camera anyway ? Or do they sell under another brand name ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What moron would buy a Panasonic camera anyway?Or do they sell under another brand name?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458645</id>
	<title>Re:Talk about knee-jerk responses</title>
	<author>Lundse</author>
	<datestamp>1245837660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Before posting, I read through the comments here to see if ANYONE had a clue regarding the dangers of Lithium Ion (and especially Lithium Polymer) batteries.</p><p>Nope.  Not a one.  Zero, zip, nada.  Everyone wants to bash Panasonic rather than do a little research first.</p><p>Talk about knee-jerk responses.</p></div><p>Someone made this point before you, politely and to-the-point (http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1280593&amp;cid=28458001).

He got a succint answer (and I miss my mod points on both of them), which goes:
Have the camera deny to charge the battery, then. Or give, and this is a wild thought, the consumer the choice of whether to use the battery!

The really wild thing to do, though, would be this: let people know how the charger operates, so batteries will "fit". Allow only batteries build to specs.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Listen, Lithium Ion technology is <a href="http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5B.htm" title="batteryuniversity.com" rel="nofollow">DANGEROUS</a> [batteryuniversity.com].  It <a href="http://www.batteryuniversity.com/images/partone-5b-3.jpg" title="batteryuniversity.com" rel="nofollow">catches fire easily</a> [batteryuniversity.com] -- <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcwOwf55Rtc" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">very easily</a> [youtube.com] -- and destroys everything around it.</p><p>Credit Sony, who is one of the pioneers (if not THE pioneer) of Lithium battery safety, for protecting their customers.</p><p>Sheesh, you people are as bad as any other herd of sheeple.  Not everything that a corporation does is evil.</p></div><p>No, but stock-board-shareholder-management mechanisms ensure they will always do what is best for the corp itself, and not give a shit about whether it is evil or not. Assuming they did this for their own sake is not company-bashing; thinking anything else is sheer stupidity and/or an assumption of extreme incompetence on their part.
The interesting part is whether they are doing it so their cameras won't blow up and get them sued/blogged about, or to sell more batteries. Me? I think it is a bit of both.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Before posting , I read through the comments here to see if ANYONE had a clue regarding the dangers of Lithium Ion ( and especially Lithium Polymer ) batteries.Nope .
Not a one .
Zero , zip , nada .
Everyone wants to bash Panasonic rather than do a little research first.Talk about knee-jerk responses.Someone made this point before you , politely and to-the-point ( http : //hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 1280593&amp;cid = 28458001 ) .
He got a succint answer ( and I miss my mod points on both of them ) , which goes : Have the camera deny to charge the battery , then .
Or give , and this is a wild thought , the consumer the choice of whether to use the battery !
The really wild thing to do , though , would be this : let people know how the charger operates , so batteries will " fit " .
Allow only batteries build to specs.Listen , Lithium Ion technology is DANGEROUS [ batteryuniversity.com ] .
It catches fire easily [ batteryuniversity.com ] -- very easily [ youtube.com ] -- and destroys everything around it.Credit Sony , who is one of the pioneers ( if not THE pioneer ) of Lithium battery safety , for protecting their customers.Sheesh , you people are as bad as any other herd of sheeple .
Not everything that a corporation does is evil.No , but stock-board-shareholder-management mechanisms ensure they will always do what is best for the corp itself , and not give a shit about whether it is evil or not .
Assuming they did this for their own sake is not company-bashing ; thinking anything else is sheer stupidity and/or an assumption of extreme incompetence on their part .
The interesting part is whether they are doing it so their cameras wo n't blow up and get them sued/blogged about , or to sell more batteries .
Me ? I think it is a bit of both .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before posting, I read through the comments here to see if ANYONE had a clue regarding the dangers of Lithium Ion (and especially Lithium Polymer) batteries.Nope.
Not a one.
Zero, zip, nada.
Everyone wants to bash Panasonic rather than do a little research first.Talk about knee-jerk responses.Someone made this point before you, politely and to-the-point (http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1280593&amp;cid=28458001).
He got a succint answer (and I miss my mod points on both of them), which goes:
Have the camera deny to charge the battery, then.
Or give, and this is a wild thought, the consumer the choice of whether to use the battery!
The really wild thing to do, though, would be this: let people know how the charger operates, so batteries will "fit".
Allow only batteries build to specs.Listen, Lithium Ion technology is DANGEROUS [batteryuniversity.com].
It catches fire easily [batteryuniversity.com] -- very easily [youtube.com] -- and destroys everything around it.Credit Sony, who is one of the pioneers (if not THE pioneer) of Lithium battery safety, for protecting their customers.Sheesh, you people are as bad as any other herd of sheeple.
Not everything that a corporation does is evil.No, but stock-board-shareholder-management mechanisms ensure they will always do what is best for the corp itself, and not give a shit about whether it is evil or not.
Assuming they did this for their own sake is not company-bashing; thinking anything else is sheer stupidity and/or an assumption of extreme incompetence on their part.
The interesting part is whether they are doing it so their cameras won't blow up and get them sued/blogged about, or to sell more batteries.
Me? I think it is a bit of both.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457699</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457063</id>
	<title>Antitrust?</title>
	<author>DoofusOfDeath</author>
	<datestamp>1245875160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is the "Panasonic camera battery" market considered a market, in terms of antitrust law?  If so, are they setting themselves up for antitrust action?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is the " Panasonic camera battery " market considered a market , in terms of antitrust law ?
If so , are they setting themselves up for antitrust action ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is the "Panasonic camera battery" market considered a market, in terms of antitrust law?
If so, are they setting themselves up for antitrust action?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28461081</id>
	<title>Re:Antitrust?</title>
	<author>spire3661</author>
	<datestamp>1245849780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IT doesnt even need to go that far. As others have mentioned above, Sega vs. Accolade should cover this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IT doesnt even need to go that far .
As others have mentioned above , Sega vs. Accolade should cover this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT doesnt even need to go that far.
As others have mentioned above, Sega vs. Accolade should cover this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457063</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460293</id>
	<title>Re:Standards?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245845160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It states that "*some* aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses.". The use of the word "some" rather than "all" means that there are 3rd party batteries that *do* meet the "rigid safety standards". Panasonic is locking good battery vendors out, that doesn't seem very fair.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It states that " * some * aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses. " .
The use of the word " some " rather than " all " means that there are 3rd party batteries that * do * meet the " rigid safety standards " .
Panasonic is locking good battery vendors out , that does n't seem very fair .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It states that "*some* aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses.".
The use of the word "some" rather than "all" means that there are 3rd party batteries that *do* meet the "rigid safety standards".
Panasonic is locking good battery vendors out, that doesn't seem very fair.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457075</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28461681</id>
	<title>Re:If I can't use common batteries, forget it</title>
	<author>dangitman</author>
	<datestamp>1245854700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If I can't use AA or AAA batteries (or some reasonable equivalent) I'm not interested. Even my pro D-SLR has an adapter to use double As.</p></div><p>You've got to be kidding me. AA and AAA batteries just don't have the energy density for sustained heavy use in a device like a DSLR. They may be OK for emergency usage, but l-ion is by far the superior technology.</p><p>Do you apply the same principle to your laptop computer? I'd love to see that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I ca n't use AA or AAA batteries ( or some reasonable equivalent ) I 'm not interested .
Even my pro D-SLR has an adapter to use double As.You 've got to be kidding me .
AA and AAA batteries just do n't have the energy density for sustained heavy use in a device like a DSLR .
They may be OK for emergency usage , but l-ion is by far the superior technology.Do you apply the same principle to your laptop computer ?
I 'd love to see that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I can't use AA or AAA batteries (or some reasonable equivalent) I'm not interested.
Even my pro D-SLR has an adapter to use double As.You've got to be kidding me.
AA and AAA batteries just don't have the energy density for sustained heavy use in a device like a DSLR.
They may be OK for emergency usage, but l-ion is by far the superior technology.Do you apply the same principle to your laptop computer?
I'd love to see that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459189</id>
	<title>Re:If I can't use common batteries, forget it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245839700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No kidding.   My brother laughed at me when I told him my NEW digital camera used AAs instead of some proprietary design...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No kidding .
My brother laughed at me when I told him my NEW digital camera used AAs instead of some proprietary design.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No kidding.
My brother laughed at me when I told him my NEW digital camera used AAs instead of some proprietary design...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457153</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245875460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ugh. I can't wait for the day when they start only accepting CameraBrandNameHere memory cards. It's easy enough to ignore Sony and find something that uses SD.... but if they try to turn the memory card market into the ink cartridge market we geeks will need to organize a riot.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ugh .
I ca n't wait for the day when they start only accepting CameraBrandNameHere memory cards .
It 's easy enough to ignore Sony and find something that uses SD.... but if they try to turn the memory card market into the ink cartridge market we geeks will need to organize a riot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ugh.
I can't wait for the day when they start only accepting CameraBrandNameHere memory cards.
It's easy enough to ignore Sony and find something that uses SD.... but if they try to turn the memory card market into the ink cartridge market we geeks will need to organize a riot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458199</id>
	<title>Re:Kind of like pumping your own gas in oregon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245836340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really?  I had no idea there was a place in the US without self-service pumps.</p><p>Incredibly, the Shell station which came to town 2 years ago has a full-service pump... the first time I pulled up to that pump I had no idea it was different than any other.  This guy came out to my car and I was like... WTF?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ?
I had no idea there was a place in the US without self-service pumps.Incredibly , the Shell station which came to town 2 years ago has a full-service pump... the first time I pulled up to that pump I had no idea it was different than any other .
This guy came out to my car and I was like... WTF ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really?
I had no idea there was a place in the US without self-service pumps.Incredibly, the Shell station which came to town 2 years ago has a full-service pump... the first time I pulled up to that pump I had no idea it was different than any other.
This guy came out to my car and I was like... WTF?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457323</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28463111</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe good justification</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245868200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Was the "ass-pirates and players of the pink oboe" part really necessary? How old are you?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Was the " ass-pirates and players of the pink oboe " part really necessary ?
How old are you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Was the "ass-pirates and players of the pink oboe" part really necessary?
How old are you?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459359</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245840480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the damage is caused by a faulty battery- and I would assume it would be apparent if it was or if it wasn't- then surely they can require that the battery be returned with the product?<br> <br>
Which would make it significantly less easy- if not impossible- to try that trick. Not saying it's a perfect solution- I'm sure that other Slashdotters are already thinking about theoretical workarounds, as am I- but it probably *would* stop a significant percentage of chancers, particularly if they risked losing their camera for nothing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the damage is caused by a faulty battery- and I would assume it would be apparent if it was or if it was n't- then surely they can require that the battery be returned with the product ?
Which would make it significantly less easy- if not impossible- to try that trick .
Not saying it 's a perfect solution- I 'm sure that other Slashdotters are already thinking about theoretical workarounds , as am I- but it probably * would * stop a significant percentage of chancers , particularly if they risked losing their camera for nothing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the damage is caused by a faulty battery- and I would assume it would be apparent if it was or if it wasn't- then surely they can require that the battery be returned with the product?
Which would make it significantly less easy- if not impossible- to try that trick.
Not saying it's a perfect solution- I'm sure that other Slashdotters are already thinking about theoretical workarounds, as am I- but it probably *would* stop a significant percentage of chancers, particularly if they risked losing their camera for nothing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28461443</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe good justification</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245852720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>then they are definitely first-rate ass-pirates and players of the pink oboe.</p></div><p>Posting A.C. so as not to blow the mod points I've used in this thread<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... thanks for that line. I got a good laugh out of it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>then they are definitely first-rate ass-pirates and players of the pink oboe.Posting A.C. so as not to blow the mod points I 've used in this thread ... thanks for that line .
I got a good laugh out of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>then they are definitely first-rate ass-pirates and players of the pink oboe.Posting A.C. so as not to blow the mod points I've used in this thread ... thanks for that line.
I got a good laugh out of it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460055</id>
	<title>So don't buy Panasonic</title>
	<author>pubwvj</author>
	<datestamp>1245844020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>X Panasonic off the list of possible cameras. They're just trying to force consumers to fill their greedy pockets. Some camera makers have done this with memory cards too. I won't buy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>X Panasonic off the list of possible cameras .
They 're just trying to force consumers to fill their greedy pockets .
Some camera makers have done this with memory cards too .
I wo n't buy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>X Panasonic off the list of possible cameras.
They're just trying to force consumers to fill their greedy pockets.
Some camera makers have done this with memory cards too.
I won't buy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457163</id>
	<title>Re:No inherent problem</title>
	<author>skuzzlebutt</author>
	<datestamp>1245875520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Quick google shows knockoffs at under $20, and the Panasonic unit at $50 for the DMW-BCF10</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Quick google shows knockoffs at under $ 20 , and the Panasonic unit at $ 50 for the DMW-BCF10</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quick google shows knockoffs at under $20, and the Panasonic unit at $50 for the DMW-BCF10</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458323</id>
	<title>Re:Grrrr.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245836700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>naturally it cannot detect if the battery is about to get white hot and set fire to the camera</p></div></blockquote><p>A simple temperature-sensor in the vincinity of the "battery" (preferrably in close contact, like directly under it), and possible one elsewhere to measure the outside temperature would probably suffice to detect problematic changes (and initiate a emergency shut-down).</p><p>But ofcourse, that would probably be too simple and not generate extra cash<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>naturally it can not detect if the battery is about to get white hot and set fire to the cameraA simple temperature-sensor in the vincinity of the " battery " ( preferrably in close contact , like directly under it ) , and possible one elsewhere to measure the outside temperature would probably suffice to detect problematic changes ( and initiate a emergency shut-down ) .But ofcourse , that would probably be too simple and not generate extra cash .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>naturally it cannot detect if the battery is about to get white hot and set fire to the cameraA simple temperature-sensor in the vincinity of the "battery" (preferrably in close contact, like directly under it), and possible one elsewhere to measure the outside temperature would probably suffice to detect problematic changes (and initiate a emergency shut-down).But ofcourse, that would probably be too simple and not generate extra cash ...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457099</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458203</id>
	<title>sony did this with the PSP</title>
	<author>Satanboy</author>
	<datestamp>1245836340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is how Sony locked users into using only sony batteries on the PSP.<br>It's also how they opened the door to hacking the PSP.<br>Look up pandoras battery for info on how it was hacked.</p><p>I'm wondering if this will start homebrew firmwares with this check removed for these cameras . . .</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is how Sony locked users into using only sony batteries on the PSP.It 's also how they opened the door to hacking the PSP.Look up pandoras battery for info on how it was hacked.I 'm wondering if this will start homebrew firmwares with this check removed for these cameras .
. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is how Sony locked users into using only sony batteries on the PSP.It's also how they opened the door to hacking the PSP.Look up pandoras battery for info on how it was hacked.I'm wondering if this will start homebrew firmwares with this check removed for these cameras .
. .</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457333</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe good justification</title>
	<author>JackSpratts</author>
	<datestamp>1245876180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>explosions can and have happened with oem batteries. this isn't a safety precaution, it's a profit solution.</htmltext>
<tokenext>explosions can and have happened with oem batteries .
this is n't a safety precaution , it 's a profit solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>explosions can and have happened with oem batteries.
this isn't a safety precaution, it's a profit solution.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458347</id>
	<title>LiPo</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245836760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>If these batteries are lithium polymer, I can't blame Panasonic for locking down their cameras.  Have you seen what happens to LiPoly batteries if they are improperly charged?  Do you remember the laptop batteries that caught on fire a few years ago?  I hope you have a fire extinguisher nearby.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If these batteries are lithium polymer , I ca n't blame Panasonic for locking down their cameras .
Have you seen what happens to LiPoly batteries if they are improperly charged ?
Do you remember the laptop batteries that caught on fire a few years ago ?
I hope you have a fire extinguisher nearby .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If these batteries are lithium polymer, I can't blame Panasonic for locking down their cameras.
Have you seen what happens to LiPoly batteries if they are improperly charged?
Do you remember the laptop batteries that caught on fire a few years ago?
I hope you have a fire extinguisher nearby.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458995</id>
	<title>I feel safer already</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245839040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was praying that someone would do something about all these deaths and burns from exploding batteries - the new media is littered with stories about this horrific carnage!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was praying that someone would do something about all these deaths and burns from exploding batteries - the new media is littered with stories about this horrific carnage !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was praying that someone would do something about all these deaths and burns from exploding batteries - the new media is littered with stories about this horrific carnage!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28461053</id>
	<title>Re:Lock is anticompetitive, not consumer prot'n</title>
	<author>mgblst</author>
	<datestamp>1245849600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How will that stop the chinese unlicensed knock-offs, that you get on ebay for $10.</p><p>IBM did the same with their laptop batteries, then the chinese just copied the circuit board IBM used on their batteries... the war continues.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How will that stop the chinese unlicensed knock-offs , that you get on ebay for $ 10.IBM did the same with their laptop batteries , then the chinese just copied the circuit board IBM used on their batteries... the war continues .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How will that stop the chinese unlicensed knock-offs, that you get on ebay for $10.IBM did the same with their laptop batteries, then the chinese just copied the circuit board IBM used on their batteries... the war continues.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457047</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458619</id>
	<title>Re:If I can't use common batteries, forget it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245837600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Panasonic is big in the "small cameras" market, where it's critical to use a battery with as much energy for the amount of space required as possible. AAs and AAAs require additional space for the casings, for the connectors, for the air required around them (typically being rounded), and are generally not Li-ion based.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Panasonic is big in the " small cameras " market , where it 's critical to use a battery with as much energy for the amount of space required as possible .
AAs and AAAs require additional space for the casings , for the connectors , for the air required around them ( typically being rounded ) , and are generally not Li-ion based .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Panasonic is big in the "small cameras" market, where it's critical to use a battery with as much energy for the amount of space required as possible.
AAs and AAAs require additional space for the casings, for the connectors, for the air required around them (typically being rounded), and are generally not Li-ion based.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28464025</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>jimicus</author>
	<datestamp>1245922740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Duracell are a large, easy to trace company that are generally quite good.</p><p>What about the thousands of cheap chinese batteries which are flooding the market under all sorts of names today and are available from a whole variety of places ranging from dodgy ebay sellers right the way up to relatively reputable bricks &amp; mortar retailers?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Duracell are a large , easy to trace company that are generally quite good.What about the thousands of cheap chinese batteries which are flooding the market under all sorts of names today and are available from a whole variety of places ranging from dodgy ebay sellers right the way up to relatively reputable bricks &amp; mortar retailers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Duracell are a large, easy to trace company that are generally quite good.What about the thousands of cheap chinese batteries which are flooding the market under all sorts of names today and are available from a whole variety of places ranging from dodgy ebay sellers right the way up to relatively reputable bricks &amp; mortar retailers?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460083</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458581</id>
	<title>Re:If I can't use common batteries, forget it</title>
	<author>rcw-home</author>
	<datestamp>1245837480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is exactly why I got a Canon SX10 last year instead of a CoolPix P80, Lumix DMC-FZ28K, Olympus SP-565UZ, or Sony DSC-H50.</p><p>Yes, Li-Ion batteries have about twice the power-to-weight ratios of NiMH, and yes they will last longer. But there's two big reasons to get equipment that uses standard AAs:</p><p>1. AAs are fungible. When hiking, I can get a flashlight and GPS receiver that take the same batteries, and if I run out of spares, I can transfer one to the other. When in town, I can quickly find a store that sells them.</p><p>2. AAs will be around in 5+ years. Li-Ion batteries die in an average of 4 years whether you use them or not. You can get them to last a little longer if you put them half-charged in the fridge. When the manufacturer stops making your model of camera, they'll stop making your model of camera battery. Now, whether or not they or anyone else keep spares sitting on the shelf for all eternity just in case you need to buy one is irrelevant - if you manage to get your hands on a "new" one, it'll be dead out of the box.</p><p>It's quite likely that I will either accidentally kill my camera in that timeframe (that's why I didn't buy a really expensive one) or that I won't care because future cameras will be even cheaper and even more wonderful. But it's not a certainty - and I'd still like something I paid a few hundred bucks for to have a chance of working 5 years after I buy it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is exactly why I got a Canon SX10 last year instead of a CoolPix P80 , Lumix DMC-FZ28K , Olympus SP-565UZ , or Sony DSC-H50.Yes , Li-Ion batteries have about twice the power-to-weight ratios of NiMH , and yes they will last longer .
But there 's two big reasons to get equipment that uses standard AAs : 1 .
AAs are fungible .
When hiking , I can get a flashlight and GPS receiver that take the same batteries , and if I run out of spares , I can transfer one to the other .
When in town , I can quickly find a store that sells them.2 .
AAs will be around in 5 + years .
Li-Ion batteries die in an average of 4 years whether you use them or not .
You can get them to last a little longer if you put them half-charged in the fridge .
When the manufacturer stops making your model of camera , they 'll stop making your model of camera battery .
Now , whether or not they or anyone else keep spares sitting on the shelf for all eternity just in case you need to buy one is irrelevant - if you manage to get your hands on a " new " one , it 'll be dead out of the box.It 's quite likely that I will either accidentally kill my camera in that timeframe ( that 's why I did n't buy a really expensive one ) or that I wo n't care because future cameras will be even cheaper and even more wonderful .
But it 's not a certainty - and I 'd still like something I paid a few hundred bucks for to have a chance of working 5 years after I buy it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is exactly why I got a Canon SX10 last year instead of a CoolPix P80, Lumix DMC-FZ28K, Olympus SP-565UZ, or Sony DSC-H50.Yes, Li-Ion batteries have about twice the power-to-weight ratios of NiMH, and yes they will last longer.
But there's two big reasons to get equipment that uses standard AAs:1.
AAs are fungible.
When hiking, I can get a flashlight and GPS receiver that take the same batteries, and if I run out of spares, I can transfer one to the other.
When in town, I can quickly find a store that sells them.2.
AAs will be around in 5+ years.
Li-Ion batteries die in an average of 4 years whether you use them or not.
You can get them to last a little longer if you put them half-charged in the fridge.
When the manufacturer stops making your model of camera, they'll stop making your model of camera battery.
Now, whether or not they or anyone else keep spares sitting on the shelf for all eternity just in case you need to buy one is irrelevant - if you manage to get your hands on a "new" one, it'll be dead out of the box.It's quite likely that I will either accidentally kill my camera in that timeframe (that's why I didn't buy a really expensive one) or that I won't care because future cameras will be even cheaper and even more wonderful.
But it's not a certainty - and I'd still like something I paid a few hundred bucks for to have a chance of working 5 years after I buy it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459545</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245841380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My Canon PowershotPro takes 4 AA batteries -- I very much prefer that as I'm not locked in!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My Canon PowershotPro takes 4 AA batteries -- I very much prefer that as I 'm not locked in !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My Canon PowershotPro takes 4 AA batteries -- I very much prefer that as I'm not locked in!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456943</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457227</id>
	<title>Last panasonic</title>
	<author>GieltjE</author>
	<datestamp>1245875760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just bought a tz7, and this will be the last panasonic I buy, the same as that I shall never again buy a HP (for numerous reasons).

Giving me a choice/warning is alright, simply telling me to not use a 9,- 1200mAh non-their-market-batery against a 45,- 895mAh their-market battery totally pisses me off! (and then some).

This is a bad twist.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just bought a tz7 , and this will be the last panasonic I buy , the same as that I shall never again buy a HP ( for numerous reasons ) .
Giving me a choice/warning is alright , simply telling me to not use a 9,- 1200mAh non-their-market-batery against a 45,- 895mAh their-market battery totally pisses me off !
( and then some ) .
This is a bad twist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just bought a tz7, and this will be the last panasonic I buy, the same as that I shall never again buy a HP (for numerous reasons).
Giving me a choice/warning is alright, simply telling me to not use a 9,- 1200mAh non-their-market-batery against a 45,- 895mAh their-market battery totally pisses me off!
(and then some).
This is a bad twist.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462187</id>
	<title>Re:sony did this with the PSP</title>
	<author>freedom\_india</author>
	<datestamp>1245858420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And that's also why UMD on PSP is a flop and why PSP itself is a flop.<br>Companies won;t acknowledge or agree that their lockin strategy is wrong.<br>They prefer to plod into oblivion by choosing a wrong path than acknowledge that they were wrong.<br>ATRAC</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And that 's also why UMD on PSP is a flop and why PSP itself is a flop.Companies won ; t acknowledge or agree that their lockin strategy is wrong.They prefer to plod into oblivion by choosing a wrong path than acknowledge that they were wrong.ATRAC</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And that's also why UMD on PSP is a flop and why PSP itself is a flop.Companies won;t acknowledge or agree that their lockin strategy is wrong.They prefer to plod into oblivion by choosing a wrong path than acknowledge that they were wrong.ATRAC</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458203</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28465363</id>
	<title>You do realize...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245939300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... that in order to detect the non-Panasonic battery and warn you about it, it needs to draw power from these "dangerous" batteries, right?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... that in order to detect the non-Panasonic battery and warn you about it , it needs to draw power from these " dangerous " batteries , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... that in order to detect the non-Panasonic battery and warn you about it, it needs to draw power from these "dangerous" batteries, right?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458065</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe good justification</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245835860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, I do not buy it. In that case they could  always just do not charge such batteries, issuing info<br>that the user you should use external charger for such "unrecognised" battery.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , I do not buy it .
In that case they could always just do not charge such batteries , issuing infothat the user you should use external charger for such " unrecognised " battery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, I do not buy it.
In that case they could  always just do not charge such batteries, issuing infothat the user you should use external charger for such "unrecognised" battery.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459859</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe good justification</title>
	<author>rm999</author>
	<datestamp>1245843000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then they are coddling us. It is common sense that you are on your own when you buy a third part battery. The camera's manual can easily as as much for legal reasons.</p><p>They are clearly doing this to continue overcharging for batteries. I bought this third party battery (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2480) for 20\% of the price Canon charges. I know if something goes wrong my warranty will be voided, but I took this risk because several other people left good reviews on this dependable site.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then they are coddling us .
It is common sense that you are on your own when you buy a third part battery .
The camera 's manual can easily as as much for legal reasons.They are clearly doing this to continue overcharging for batteries .
I bought this third party battery ( http : //www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2480 ) for 20 \ % of the price Canon charges .
I know if something goes wrong my warranty will be voided , but I took this risk because several other people left good reviews on this dependable site .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then they are coddling us.
It is common sense that you are on your own when you buy a third part battery.
The camera's manual can easily as as much for legal reasons.They are clearly doing this to continue overcharging for batteries.
I bought this third party battery (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2480) for 20\% of the price Canon charges.
I know if something goes wrong my warranty will be voided, but I took this risk because several other people left good reviews on this dependable site.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458947</id>
	<title>Re:Lock is anticompetitive, not consumer prot'n</title>
	<author>fishbowl</author>
	<datestamp>1245838920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If Panasonic knows of a manufacturing making unsafe batteries, they should get the proper authorities involved.  Refusing to allow the unsafe batteries in their product protects them, but doesn't protect the public, and if they are keeping this information secret, they are potentially an accessory to a crime.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If Panasonic knows of a manufacturing making unsafe batteries , they should get the proper authorities involved .
Refusing to allow the unsafe batteries in their product protects them , but does n't protect the public , and if they are keeping this information secret , they are potentially an accessory to a crime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Panasonic knows of a manufacturing making unsafe batteries, they should get the proper authorities involved.
Refusing to allow the unsafe batteries in their product protects them, but doesn't protect the public, and if they are keeping this information secret, they are potentially an accessory to a crime.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457047</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457237</id>
	<title>Re:I am in the market for a new camera.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245875820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>As I see it, the camera is using the (unofficial) battery to post and load the firmware, only to realize that the battery is illigal, and then either eisplays message or halts.  I just find it funny that it has to use the very device that it intends to block to power the check.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As I see it , the camera is using the ( unofficial ) battery to post and load the firmware , only to realize that the battery is illigal , and then either eisplays message or halts .
I just find it funny that it has to use the very device that it intends to block to power the check .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As I see it, the camera is using the (unofficial) battery to post and load the firmware, only to realize that the battery is illigal, and then either eisplays message or halts.
I just find it funny that it has to use the very device that it intends to block to power the check.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456997</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460083</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>Khyber</author>
	<datestamp>1245844200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the damage is caused by a faulty battery, you turn the device over to the battery manufacturer along with the failed battery. They pay for your replacement equipment.</p><p>Done it twice, first with a Panasonic cassette camcorder and then with a Kodak C743. Duracell paid both times for the damaged hardware.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the damage is caused by a faulty battery , you turn the device over to the battery manufacturer along with the failed battery .
They pay for your replacement equipment.Done it twice , first with a Panasonic cassette camcorder and then with a Kodak C743 .
Duracell paid both times for the damaged hardware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the damage is caused by a faulty battery, you turn the device over to the battery manufacturer along with the failed battery.
They pay for your replacement equipment.Done it twice, first with a Panasonic cassette camcorder and then with a Kodak C743.
Duracell paid both times for the damaged hardware.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457791</id>
	<title>Charge for the camera!</title>
	<author>sohmc</author>
	<datestamp>1245834780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm guessing that Panasonic, like most hardware manufacturers, make little to no money on the camera but make a handsome profit on the batteries and other accessories.

Panasonic is doing what every other cash-strapped company is doing: creating a fixed revenue stream.

But in this case, they are doing nothing except hurting themselves.  They just talked me out of buying their product.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm guessing that Panasonic , like most hardware manufacturers , make little to no money on the camera but make a handsome profit on the batteries and other accessories .
Panasonic is doing what every other cash-strapped company is doing : creating a fixed revenue stream .
But in this case , they are doing nothing except hurting themselves .
They just talked me out of buying their product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm guessing that Panasonic, like most hardware manufacturers, make little to no money on the camera but make a handsome profit on the batteries and other accessories.
Panasonic is doing what every other cash-strapped company is doing: creating a fixed revenue stream.
But in this case, they are doing nothing except hurting themselves.
They just talked me out of buying their product.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28467031</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>intheshelter</author>
	<datestamp>1245948180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Void the warranty because they used a non-Panasonic battery?  That's a bit extreme I think.  Maybe a better route would be to certify a battery manufacturer so their batteries are acceptable by the firmware update.  That way you protect the camera (which is supposedly their justification) and you don't stifle competition for your over-priced batteries either.</p><p>I'm sorry, but this smacks more of lining their pockets and stifling competition than it does losing money in warranty repairs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Void the warranty because they used a non-Panasonic battery ?
That 's a bit extreme I think .
Maybe a better route would be to certify a battery manufacturer so their batteries are acceptable by the firmware update .
That way you protect the camera ( which is supposedly their justification ) and you do n't stifle competition for your over-priced batteries either.I 'm sorry , but this smacks more of lining their pockets and stifling competition than it does losing money in warranty repairs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Void the warranty because they used a non-Panasonic battery?
That's a bit extreme I think.
Maybe a better route would be to certify a battery manufacturer so their batteries are acceptable by the firmware update.
That way you protect the camera (which is supposedly their justification) and you don't stifle competition for your over-priced batteries either.I'm sorry, but this smacks more of lining their pockets and stifling competition than it does losing money in warranty repairs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459879</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>sburjak</author>
	<datestamp>1245843060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Too bad for me. I've just purchased an HD digital movie camera with those and can't return it. The charger won't even look at anyone elses battery.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Too bad for me .
I 've just purchased an HD digital movie camera with those and ca n't return it .
The charger wo n't even look at anyone elses battery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too bad for me.
I've just purchased an HD digital movie camera with those and can't return it.
The charger won't even look at anyone elses battery.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459509</id>
	<title>Re:Grrrr.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245841200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A better solution would of been [...]</p></div><p>A better solution would <b>HAVE</b> been...</p><p>that is all.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A better solution would of been [ ... ] A better solution would HAVE been...that is all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A better solution would of been [...]A better solution would HAVE been...that is all.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457099</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457315</id>
	<title>Countdown to FTC action...</title>
	<author>KC7GR</author>
	<datestamp>1245876120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In 5...4...3...2...</p><p>Well, you get the idea. Any wagers as to how long it'll take for this to hit the legal system? I'm sure the resultant flare-up will be most entertaining. Time to invest in popcorn futures.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In 5...4...3...2...Well , you get the idea .
Any wagers as to how long it 'll take for this to hit the legal system ?
I 'm sure the resultant flare-up will be most entertaining .
Time to invest in popcorn futures .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In 5...4...3...2...Well, you get the idea.
Any wagers as to how long it'll take for this to hit the legal system?
I'm sure the resultant flare-up will be most entertaining.
Time to invest in popcorn futures.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458209</id>
	<title>Re:Standards?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245836340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"some aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses."</p><p>It would be interesting to see what standards they refer to.  Is that a trade secret?</p></div><p>Apparently the same rigorous testing and QC checks they put these batteries through:</p><p>http://news.cnet.com/Panasonic-joins-notebook-battery-recall/2100-1041\_3-6112395.html</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" some aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses .
" It would be interesting to see what standards they refer to .
Is that a trade secret ? Apparently the same rigorous testing and QC checks they put these batteries through : http : //news.cnet.com/Panasonic-joins-notebook-battery-recall/2100-1041 \ _3-6112395.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"some aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses.
"It would be interesting to see what standards they refer to.
Is that a trade secret?Apparently the same rigorous testing and QC checks they put these batteries through:http://news.cnet.com/Panasonic-joins-notebook-battery-recall/2100-1041\_3-6112395.html
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457075</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458409</id>
	<title>Re:Who?</title>
	<author>nevermore94</author>
	<datestamp>1245836940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, Panasonic made some of the best Digital Point &amp; Shoot, non-DSLR cameras out there.  I just bought a new Panasonic Lumix for my fiancee after MUCH research.  And, I was looking to buy a Panasonic Lumix fz28k for myself, but now I think I am leaning back to the Canon SX10.<br>Unfortunately, none of my researching had come across this new development until today.  Having already boughten 4 extra generic batteries that last just as long for my current Canon PowerShot, I am not sure that I would want to have to go back to $50 verses $5 dollar batteries.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , Panasonic made some of the best Digital Point &amp; Shoot , non-DSLR cameras out there .
I just bought a new Panasonic Lumix for my fiancee after MUCH research .
And , I was looking to buy a Panasonic Lumix fz28k for myself , but now I think I am leaning back to the Canon SX10.Unfortunately , none of my researching had come across this new development until today .
Having already boughten 4 extra generic batteries that last just as long for my current Canon PowerShot , I am not sure that I would want to have to go back to $ 50 verses $ 5 dollar batteries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, Panasonic made some of the best Digital Point &amp; Shoot, non-DSLR cameras out there.
I just bought a new Panasonic Lumix for my fiancee after MUCH research.
And, I was looking to buy a Panasonic Lumix fz28k for myself, but now I think I am leaning back to the Canon SX10.Unfortunately, none of my researching had come across this new development until today.
Having already boughten 4 extra generic batteries that last just as long for my current Canon PowerShot, I am not sure that I would want to have to go back to $50 verses $5 dollar batteries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457257</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</id>
	<title>Too bad for them</title>
	<author>YrWrstNtmr</author>
	<datestamp>1245874740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>There goes Panasonic off my list for an upcoming camera buy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There goes Panasonic off my list for an upcoming camera buy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There goes Panasonic off my list for an upcoming camera buy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28473609</id>
	<title>Hell, I don't buy cameras that don't use AA format</title>
	<author>Kazoo the Clown</author>
	<datestamp>1245929520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Period.   My #1 critera for a digital camera is it must use a standardized battery-- because what good is it a couple of years down the road when the model is discontinued and the manufacturer of the camera doesn't make batteries anymore?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Period .
My # 1 critera for a digital camera is it must use a standardized battery-- because what good is it a couple of years down the road when the model is discontinued and the manufacturer of the camera does n't make batteries anymore ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Period.
My #1 critera for a digital camera is it must use a standardized battery-- because what good is it a couple of years down the road when the model is discontinued and the manufacturer of the camera doesn't make batteries anymore?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457339</id>
	<title>This will guarantee the safety...</title>
	<author>hernick</author>
	<datestamp>1245876240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This will guarantee the safety... of their profits!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This will guarantee the safety... of their profits !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This will guarantee the safety... of their profits!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28470527</id>
	<title>compared to Windows...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245961380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I read someting like this, or that ink jet printers reject non-original or refilled cartidges, I wonder why are EU and USA govts going after MSFT for including IE in Windows FOR FREE and leave these ?\%$\%#$ alone... At least you can install and use some other browser and ignore IE competely, there is no lock-up</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I read someting like this , or that ink jet printers reject non-original or refilled cartidges , I wonder why are EU and USA govts going after MSFT for including IE in Windows FOR FREE and leave these ? \ % $ \ % # $ alone... At least you can install and use some other browser and ignore IE competely , there is no lock-up</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I read someting like this, or that ink jet printers reject non-original or refilled cartidges, I wonder why are EU and USA govts going after MSFT for including IE in Windows FOR FREE and leave these ?\%$\%#$ alone... At least you can install and use some other browser and ignore IE competely, there is no lock-up</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462495</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>phorm</author>
	<datestamp>1245860940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So have something that flags internally when a non-approved battery has been installed, similar to how many devices have little tags that indicate if they've gotten wet internally etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So have something that flags internally when a non-approved battery has been installed , similar to how many devices have little tags that indicate if they 've gotten wet internally etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So have something that flags internally when a non-approved battery has been installed, similar to how many devices have little tags that indicate if they've gotten wet internally etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457845</id>
	<title>exactly the same</title>
	<author>frankgod</author>
	<datestamp>1245835020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly the same line HP gives for printer cartridges. But they can't tell if you refilled the cartridge and they rely on digital obfuscation to prevent people from making knockoff cartridges.</p><p>Hopefully the knockoff makers will figure out how to make their batteries report that they are actually "genuine".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly the same line HP gives for printer cartridges .
But they ca n't tell if you refilled the cartridge and they rely on digital obfuscation to prevent people from making knockoff cartridges.Hopefully the knockoff makers will figure out how to make their batteries report that they are actually " genuine " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly the same line HP gives for printer cartridges.
But they can't tell if you refilled the cartridge and they rely on digital obfuscation to prevent people from making knockoff cartridges.Hopefully the knockoff makers will figure out how to make their batteries report that they are actually "genuine".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28478435</id>
	<title>Panasonic is a Crappy Brand</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1246046520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've always had problems with Panasonic products, from electric pencil sharpeners to cordless phones. Poor user interfaces and fragile.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've always had problems with Panasonic products , from electric pencil sharpeners to cordless phones .
Poor user interfaces and fragile .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've always had problems with Panasonic products, from electric pencil sharpeners to cordless phones.
Poor user interfaces and fragile.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458495</id>
	<title>Sounds Good</title>
	<author>Demonantis</author>
	<datestamp>1245837180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>, but if that was your true reason then you would be able to allow and disallow battery manufacturers that provide safe batteries. Don't lie to us. We are not stupid.</htmltext>
<tokenext>, but if that was your true reason then you would be able to allow and disallow battery manufacturers that provide safe batteries .
Do n't lie to us .
We are not stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>, but if that was your true reason then you would be able to allow and disallow battery manufacturers that provide safe batteries.
Don't lie to us.
We are not stupid.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462369</id>
	<title>Re:Who?</title>
	<author>bursch-X</author>
	<datestamp>1245859800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes and the pro and semi-pro market is totally Pwned by Panasonic, SONY and JVC (aka Nihon Victor).

It's a totally different picture in the 'sumer market, though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes and the pro and semi-pro market is totally Pwned by Panasonic , SONY and JVC ( aka Nihon Victor ) .
It 's a totally different picture in the 'sumer market , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes and the pro and semi-pro market is totally Pwned by Panasonic, SONY and JVC (aka Nihon Victor).
It's a totally different picture in the 'sumer market, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457257</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457435</id>
	<title>Re:Lock is anticompetitive, not consumer prot'n</title>
	<author>AnotherUsername</author>
	<datestamp>1245876600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why not just build the battery right into the camera. End of story.</p></div><p>Because many people like to have multiple batteries so they can take more pictures/video without having an hour or so wait in between battery changes.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Battery problems? Take your camera to an authorized Panasonic repair shop...</p></div><p>Or buy a new one without having to drive several hours just to be told that you need a new battery, therein having to pay for a new battery AND having to pay labor costs.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Either way, the market will decide on this. Panasonic isn't the only player in town.</p></div><p>Or we could just use some good old fashioned anti-competition regulation and stop Panasonic from preying on those people who don't know about their practices.  Why punish individuals for the sins of a company?  Because we want the market to decide everything?  An unregulated market is as dangerous as a cobra in an orphanage.  Everyone wants to play, but only one creature makes it out alive.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not just build the battery right into the camera .
End of story.Because many people like to have multiple batteries so they can take more pictures/video without having an hour or so wait in between battery changes.Battery problems ?
Take your camera to an authorized Panasonic repair shop...Or buy a new one without having to drive several hours just to be told that you need a new battery , therein having to pay for a new battery AND having to pay labor costs.Either way , the market will decide on this .
Panasonic is n't the only player in town.Or we could just use some good old fashioned anti-competition regulation and stop Panasonic from preying on those people who do n't know about their practices .
Why punish individuals for the sins of a company ?
Because we want the market to decide everything ?
An unregulated market is as dangerous as a cobra in an orphanage .
Everyone wants to play , but only one creature makes it out alive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not just build the battery right into the camera.
End of story.Because many people like to have multiple batteries so they can take more pictures/video without having an hour or so wait in between battery changes.Battery problems?
Take your camera to an authorized Panasonic repair shop...Or buy a new one without having to drive several hours just to be told that you need a new battery, therein having to pay for a new battery AND having to pay labor costs.Either way, the market will decide on this.
Panasonic isn't the only player in town.Or we could just use some good old fashioned anti-competition regulation and stop Panasonic from preying on those people who don't know about their practices.
Why punish individuals for the sins of a company?
Because we want the market to decide everything?
An unregulated market is as dangerous as a cobra in an orphanage.
Everyone wants to play, but only one creature makes it out alive.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460571</id>
	<title>If this was really about safety...</title>
	<author>jamesswift</author>
	<datestamp>1245846420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>they would provide an advanced menu option to allow 3rd party batteries that the user deems safe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they would provide an advanced menu option to allow 3rd party batteries that the user deems safe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they would provide an advanced menu option to allow 3rd party batteries that the user deems safe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457011</id>
	<title>Are we overlooking the possibilities?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245874980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are we overlooking the possibility, the grave and determinous possibility, I might add, that this is orchistratad by Italian agents ackting in consort with their Japinise sudoku-allies? America needs to keep Her eyes open and look outr for Rapist foriegners and their randy penisis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are we overlooking the possibility , the grave and determinous possibility , I might add , that this is orchistratad by Italian agents ackting in consort with their Japinise sudoku-allies ?
America needs to keep Her eyes open and look outr for Rapist foriegners and their randy penisis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are we overlooking the possibility, the grave and determinous possibility, I might add, that this is orchistratad by Italian agents ackting in consort with their Japinise sudoku-allies?
America needs to keep Her eyes open and look outr for Rapist foriegners and their randy penisis.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459985</id>
	<title>Re:Who?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245843660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, very good ones in fact; google the LX3...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , very good ones in fact ; google the LX3.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, very good ones in fact; google the LX3...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457257</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28463361</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>daffy951</author>
	<datestamp>1245871140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was just about to write the same.. Looking for a new camera, and now I know it won't be a Panasonic.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was just about to write the same.. Looking for a new camera , and now I know it wo n't be a Panasonic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was just about to write the same.. Looking for a new camera, and now I know it won't be a Panasonic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458213</id>
	<title>not the worst camera asshattery I've seen</title>
	<author>jollyreaper</author>
	<datestamp>1245836400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Years back when the digitals were first hitting the market they were even more power-hungry than now. They could suck a set of batteries dry with just a half hour's use. Crafty owners thought they could get around this expense by using rechargeable batteries. Responsible manufacturers will anticipate problems and stick warnings on the box, on neon sheets inside the packaging, etc, when a potential fuckup could happen. The way these cameras were designed, rechargeable batteries would destroy them. I don't know how or why. All of the 1-star reviews on Amazon mentioned the recharge problem and how people had ruined cameras that Kodak would not RMA because they didn't read the manual. The only warning was on page 215 in one unbolded and otherwise unremarkable sentence.</p><p>I never bought another one of their products again. This was utter asshattery. Users would expect to be able to use rechargeable batteries, especially since other cameras on the market did not have this limitation. Certainly a warning on the box would have been helpful, or maybe one of those big neon cards that you simply cannot miss. Maybe a warning sticker taped over the battery compartment. But it's obvious that Kodak knew this would be a deal-breaker for people so they deliberately concealed this design defect.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Years back when the digitals were first hitting the market they were even more power-hungry than now .
They could suck a set of batteries dry with just a half hour 's use .
Crafty owners thought they could get around this expense by using rechargeable batteries .
Responsible manufacturers will anticipate problems and stick warnings on the box , on neon sheets inside the packaging , etc , when a potential fuckup could happen .
The way these cameras were designed , rechargeable batteries would destroy them .
I do n't know how or why .
All of the 1-star reviews on Amazon mentioned the recharge problem and how people had ruined cameras that Kodak would not RMA because they did n't read the manual .
The only warning was on page 215 in one unbolded and otherwise unremarkable sentence.I never bought another one of their products again .
This was utter asshattery .
Users would expect to be able to use rechargeable batteries , especially since other cameras on the market did not have this limitation .
Certainly a warning on the box would have been helpful , or maybe one of those big neon cards that you simply can not miss .
Maybe a warning sticker taped over the battery compartment .
But it 's obvious that Kodak knew this would be a deal-breaker for people so they deliberately concealed this design defect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Years back when the digitals were first hitting the market they were even more power-hungry than now.
They could suck a set of batteries dry with just a half hour's use.
Crafty owners thought they could get around this expense by using rechargeable batteries.
Responsible manufacturers will anticipate problems and stick warnings on the box, on neon sheets inside the packaging, etc, when a potential fuckup could happen.
The way these cameras were designed, rechargeable batteries would destroy them.
I don't know how or why.
All of the 1-star reviews on Amazon mentioned the recharge problem and how people had ruined cameras that Kodak would not RMA because they didn't read the manual.
The only warning was on page 215 in one unbolded and otherwise unremarkable sentence.I never bought another one of their products again.
This was utter asshattery.
Users would expect to be able to use rechargeable batteries, especially since other cameras on the market did not have this limitation.
Certainly a warning on the box would have been helpful, or maybe one of those big neon cards that you simply cannot miss.
Maybe a warning sticker taped over the battery compartment.
But it's obvious that Kodak knew this would be a deal-breaker for people so they deliberately concealed this design defect.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28461303</id>
	<title>Sell the blades</title>
	<author>woboyle</author>
	<datestamp>1245851460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a good example of the razor blade principal. Most of these manufacturers make more off of consumables and add-ons than they do with the prime unit. Pretty soon these camera manufacturers will make it so you need to purchase their flash drives as well as their batteries, at a premium of more than double what you'd pay for the same thing from any reliable 3rd party. That was certainly the case of the backup battery I purchased for my Casio camera. Theirs was over $45. The replacement from a major battery manufacturer was about $15, shipping included! As far as I can tell, there is about zero difference in their performance and time-to-discharge or recharge. I'd guess that the replacement only differed in the label. They probably manufactured the OEM batteries as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a good example of the razor blade principal .
Most of these manufacturers make more off of consumables and add-ons than they do with the prime unit .
Pretty soon these camera manufacturers will make it so you need to purchase their flash drives as well as their batteries , at a premium of more than double what you 'd pay for the same thing from any reliable 3rd party .
That was certainly the case of the backup battery I purchased for my Casio camera .
Theirs was over $ 45 .
The replacement from a major battery manufacturer was about $ 15 , shipping included !
As far as I can tell , there is about zero difference in their performance and time-to-discharge or recharge .
I 'd guess that the replacement only differed in the label .
They probably manufactured the OEM batteries as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a good example of the razor blade principal.
Most of these manufacturers make more off of consumables and add-ons than they do with the prime unit.
Pretty soon these camera manufacturers will make it so you need to purchase their flash drives as well as their batteries, at a premium of more than double what you'd pay for the same thing from any reliable 3rd party.
That was certainly the case of the backup battery I purchased for my Casio camera.
Theirs was over $45.
The replacement from a major battery manufacturer was about $15, shipping included!
As far as I can tell, there is about zero difference in their performance and time-to-discharge or recharge.
I'd guess that the replacement only differed in the label.
They probably manufactured the OEM batteries as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28471531</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>0xG</author>
	<datestamp>1245921780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Personally, I think a better move would be for the firmware to simply set some type of non-resettable internal flag showing that a non-approved battery was loaded, and display some type of alert option.</p></div><p>Personally, I think a better move would be to design a camera that works with any standard battery of a given size. The electronics should be more robust than something that cacks if the voltage is slightly off; in extreme cases the electronics should just power down (temporarily) if something is truly, intolerably amiss...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally , I think a better move would be for the firmware to simply set some type of non-resettable internal flag showing that a non-approved battery was loaded , and display some type of alert option.Personally , I think a better move would be to design a camera that works with any standard battery of a given size .
The electronics should be more robust than something that cacks if the voltage is slightly off ; in extreme cases the electronics should just power down ( temporarily ) if something is truly , intolerably amiss.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally, I think a better move would be for the firmware to simply set some type of non-resettable internal flag showing that a non-approved battery was loaded, and display some type of alert option.Personally, I think a better move would be to design a camera that works with any standard battery of a given size.
The electronics should be more robust than something that cacks if the voltage is slightly off; in extreme cases the electronics should just power down (temporarily) if something is truly, intolerably amiss...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460527</id>
	<title>Re:I am in the market for a new camera.</title>
	<author>amilo100</author>
	<datestamp>1245846240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lexmark (formerly Mordor Printing Company) makes the shitest most crap products in the world. It is almost as if they want to screw up the environment and drive people to suicide with their crap inkjet printers.<br> <br>

HP btw makes fairly good inkjet printers - much better than the crap Lexmark pull.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lexmark ( formerly Mordor Printing Company ) makes the shitest most crap products in the world .
It is almost as if they want to screw up the environment and drive people to suicide with their crap inkjet printers .
HP btw makes fairly good inkjet printers - much better than the crap Lexmark pull .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lexmark (formerly Mordor Printing Company) makes the shitest most crap products in the world.
It is almost as if they want to screw up the environment and drive people to suicide with their crap inkjet printers.
HP btw makes fairly good inkjet printers - much better than the crap Lexmark pull.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456997</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457703</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe good justification</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245834360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes it is illegitimate.<br>Using 3rd-party, non panasonic batteries is my choice. The safety of the 3rd party battery is an issue between me and the 3rd-party battery manufacturer. Panasonic is no party in it.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes it is illegitimate.Using 3rd-party , non panasonic batteries is my choice .
The safety of the 3rd party battery is an issue between me and the 3rd-party battery manufacturer .
Panasonic is no party in it .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes it is illegitimate.Using 3rd-party, non panasonic batteries is my choice.
The safety of the 3rd party battery is an issue between me and the 3rd-party battery manufacturer.
Panasonic is no party in it.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458911</id>
	<title>Re:Lock is anticompetitive, not consumer prot'n</title>
	<author>jez9999</author>
	<datestamp>1245838740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries, it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.</i></p><p>This would definitely work.  I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries , it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.This would definitely work .
I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Panasonic was concerned about 3rd party suppliers selling unsafe batteries, it could sell licenses with strict requirements or set up a certification program to test the safety of the batteries sold by these suppliers.This would definitely work.
I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457047</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462375</id>
	<title>Double A...</title>
	<author>Zero\_DgZ</author>
	<datestamp>1245859860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is precisely the reason I still have my Canon A70 even though I have newer, shinier, and swanker cameras around the place. The A70 may be old and chunky and have most of its silvery finish flaked off, but it still takes fantastic photos and runs off of four bog standard, regular old, available anywhere at any hour AA cells. A set of high capacity NiMh rechargeables, by preference, but it can run for a while on alkalines in a pinch.</p><p>When civilization falls and the roaches take over, my stupid old-fashioned camera will still work, because I guarantee you the roaches will still use AA's in their TV remotes or something. Cameras powered by little proprietary lithium ion packs may be slimmer or sleeker or whatever, but I'll take the capacity to use standard cells any day.</p><p>I notice printer manufacturers are doing this nowadays as well, including the very same Canon. Guess who is going to have his Pixma iP5000 (with non-chipped ink cartridges) pried from his cold, dead fingers?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is precisely the reason I still have my Canon A70 even though I have newer , shinier , and swanker cameras around the place .
The A70 may be old and chunky and have most of its silvery finish flaked off , but it still takes fantastic photos and runs off of four bog standard , regular old , available anywhere at any hour AA cells .
A set of high capacity NiMh rechargeables , by preference , but it can run for a while on alkalines in a pinch.When civilization falls and the roaches take over , my stupid old-fashioned camera will still work , because I guarantee you the roaches will still use AA 's in their TV remotes or something .
Cameras powered by little proprietary lithium ion packs may be slimmer or sleeker or whatever , but I 'll take the capacity to use standard cells any day.I notice printer manufacturers are doing this nowadays as well , including the very same Canon .
Guess who is going to have his Pixma iP5000 ( with non-chipped ink cartridges ) pried from his cold , dead fingers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is precisely the reason I still have my Canon A70 even though I have newer, shinier, and swanker cameras around the place.
The A70 may be old and chunky and have most of its silvery finish flaked off, but it still takes fantastic photos and runs off of four bog standard, regular old, available anywhere at any hour AA cells.
A set of high capacity NiMh rechargeables, by preference, but it can run for a while on alkalines in a pinch.When civilization falls and the roaches take over, my stupid old-fashioned camera will still work, because I guarantee you the roaches will still use AA's in their TV remotes or something.
Cameras powered by little proprietary lithium ion packs may be slimmer or sleeker or whatever, but I'll take the capacity to use standard cells any day.I notice printer manufacturers are doing this nowadays as well, including the very same Canon.
Guess who is going to have his Pixma iP5000 (with non-chipped ink cartridges) pried from his cold, dead fingers?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28469153</id>
	<title>Panasonic locks down camera</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245956040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, sounds a lot like 'pound me in the ass' customer care. If Panasonic had the market share of , say, Cannon, they might get away with it. Let's "send them a message" like NFW.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , sounds a lot like 'pound me in the ass ' customer care .
If Panasonic had the market share of , say , Cannon , they might get away with it .
Let 's " send them a message " like NFW .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, sounds a lot like 'pound me in the ass' customer care.
If Panasonic had the market share of , say, Cannon, they might get away with it.
Let's "send them a message" like NFW.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460767</id>
	<title>I have only 1 word for that</title>
	<author>toby</author>
	<datestamp>1245847500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Fucking <a href="http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/06/25/lexmark\_v\_static\_control\_components/" title="channelregister.co.uk">Lexmark</a> [channelregister.co.uk]."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Fucking Lexmark [ channelregister.co.uk ] .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Fucking Lexmark [channelregister.co.uk].
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28463785</id>
	<title>FTC</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245962700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fundamental Theorem of Calculus?<br>I don't know, that sort of action sounds painful...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fundamental Theorem of Calculus ? I do n't know , that sort of action sounds painful.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fundamental Theorem of Calculus?I don't know, that sort of action sounds painful...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457315</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456987</id>
	<title>Refreshing!</title>
	<author>naer\_dinsul</author>
	<datestamp>1245874860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ahh...  Nothing quite like the smell of a good ol' arms race in the morning...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ahh... Nothing quite like the smell of a good ol ' arms race in the morning.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ahh...  Nothing quite like the smell of a good ol' arms race in the morning...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28471341</id>
	<title>As long as it's not made in China or similar...</title>
	<author>sethstorm</author>
	<datestamp>1245921240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...I'm fine enough with them doing this.  Something about a lack of quality from that region of the world comes to mind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...I 'm fine enough with them doing this .
Something about a lack of quality from that region of the world comes to mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...I'm fine enough with them doing this.
Something about a lack of quality from that region of the world comes to mind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459475</id>
	<title>What comes next?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245841020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Give the camera away for free and make all the money over battery sales?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Give the camera away for free and make all the money over battery sales ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give the camera away for free and make all the money over battery sales?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458693</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245837840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I left nikon to buy canon because it uses standard AA batteries.. easy enough to carry around a pocket full of rechargeable AAs!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I left nikon to buy canon because it uses standard AA batteries.. easy enough to carry around a pocket full of rechargeable AAs !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I left nikon to buy canon because it uses standard AA batteries.. easy enough to carry around a pocket full of rechargeable AAs!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458089</id>
	<title>Re:If I can't use common batteries, forget it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245835920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most of my cameras don't use batteries at all. They optics similar to the ones on electronic cameras to project the image onto a suspension of silver bromide crystals to simultaneously capture and store a high-resolution image on a layer of cellulose acetate. You can actually make pictures this way without electronics at all. A long time ago, it was called "photography".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of my cameras do n't use batteries at all .
They optics similar to the ones on electronic cameras to project the image onto a suspension of silver bromide crystals to simultaneously capture and store a high-resolution image on a layer of cellulose acetate .
You can actually make pictures this way without electronics at all .
A long time ago , it was called " photography " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of my cameras don't use batteries at all.
They optics similar to the ones on electronic cameras to project the image onto a suspension of silver bromide crystals to simultaneously capture and store a high-resolution image on a layer of cellulose acetate.
You can actually make pictures this way without electronics at all.
A long time ago, it was called "photography".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28461573</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245853920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We would often see people come in with a damaged camera, pop out the 3rd-party battery and replace it with the Genuine one, and try to claim the Warranty.</p></div><p>Why did you capitalize "genuine" and "warranty"? They aren't proper nouns.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We would often see people come in with a damaged camera , pop out the 3rd-party battery and replace it with the Genuine one , and try to claim the Warranty.Why did you capitalize " genuine " and " warranty " ?
They are n't proper nouns .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We would often see people come in with a damaged camera, pop out the 3rd-party battery and replace it with the Genuine one, and try to claim the Warranty.Why did you capitalize "genuine" and "warranty"?
They aren't proper nouns.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28464235</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>SharpFang</author>
	<datestamp>1245925200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you still have any doubts what brand of compact camera to choose check out <a href="http://chdk.wikia.com/" title="wikia.com">http://chdk.wikia.com/</a> [wikia.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you still have any doubts what brand of compact camera to choose check out http : //chdk.wikia.com/ [ wikia.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you still have any doubts what brand of compact camera to choose check out http://chdk.wikia.com/ [wikia.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456997</id>
	<title>I am in the market for a new camera.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245874920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guess it will not be a Panasonic.  If it had issued a warning after putting hte battery in, then it would be OK.  This just sounds like the same crap Lexmark pulled.  I still actively recommend against their printers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess it will not be a Panasonic .
If it had issued a warning after putting hte battery in , then it would be OK. This just sounds like the same crap Lexmark pulled .
I still actively recommend against their printers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess it will not be a Panasonic.
If it had issued a warning after putting hte battery in, then it would be OK.  This just sounds like the same crap Lexmark pulled.
I still actively recommend against their printers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462461</id>
	<title>so many cameras - how  to decide?</title>
	<author>scherrey</author>
	<datestamp>1245860640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>excellent - there are so many good cameras to choose from and many models over many manufacturers that it is impossible to keep up with. panasonic has just made life easier cause I can now eliminate their entire life from my list of options i have to follow. thanx guys!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>excellent - there are so many good cameras to choose from and many models over many manufacturers that it is impossible to keep up with .
panasonic has just made life easier cause I can now eliminate their entire life from my list of options i have to follow .
thanx guys !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>excellent - there are so many good cameras to choose from and many models over many manufacturers that it is impossible to keep up with.
panasonic has just made life easier cause I can now eliminate their entire life from my list of options i have to follow.
thanx guys!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459947</id>
	<title>Re:Kind of like pumping your own gas in oregon</title>
	<author>L3370</author>
	<datestamp>1245843540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>having only "trained" personnel operate gas pumps greatly reduces insurance costs of operating such a business. It may be arguable that it drives insurance costs down in general for Oregon area too.</htmltext>
<tokenext>having only " trained " personnel operate gas pumps greatly reduces insurance costs of operating such a business .
It may be arguable that it drives insurance costs down in general for Oregon area too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>having only "trained" personnel operate gas pumps greatly reduces insurance costs of operating such a business.
It may be arguable that it drives insurance costs down in general for Oregon area too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457323</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459221</id>
	<title>WTF?</title>
	<author>PPNSteve</author>
	<datestamp>1245839820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <strong>WTF..</strong> its a frakin' battery for gods sake.</p><p>a battery is designed to do one thing: supply a direct current voltage to a device. </p><p> <strong>STUPID!</strong> </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WTF.. its a frakin ' battery for gods sake.a battery is designed to do one thing : supply a direct current voltage to a device .
STUPID !</tokentext>
<sentencetext> WTF.. its a frakin' battery for gods sake.a battery is designed to do one thing: supply a direct current voltage to a device.
STUPID! </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457735</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245834540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Me too!  Damn, I wanted a <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09030315panasoniclumixdmcgh1.asp" title="dpreview.com" rel="nofollow">DMC-GH1</a> [dpreview.com]!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Me too !
Damn , I wanted a DMC-GH1 [ dpreview.com ] !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Me too!
Damn, I wanted a DMC-GH1 [dpreview.com]!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457555</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe good justification</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245877020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If you don't believe that can happen, then I suggest you review all the stories of exploding laptop batteries. It can and does happen.</p></div></blockquote><p>You, or Panasonic, are MOST WELCOME to PROVE that the rate at which 3rd party batteries fail dangerously, is notably higher than the rate at which Panasonic's own batteries fail dangerously...</p><p>Whenever there's a story about a cell phone, or a laptop, exploding, the first thing the PR people do is complain about unlicensed 3rd party batteries.  When it's pointed out that it has the company logo on it, they complain of 3rd parties selling bad batteries with a forged logo.  Doesn't matter if it's a brand new item you were just walking out of the store with, they will INSIST it was a 3rd party battery that blew up, and absolutely refuse to admit that their own batteries aren't perfect in every way...  After all, for 4X the price, they MUST BE!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you do n't believe that can happen , then I suggest you review all the stories of exploding laptop batteries .
It can and does happen.You , or Panasonic , are MOST WELCOME to PROVE that the rate at which 3rd party batteries fail dangerously , is notably higher than the rate at which Panasonic 's own batteries fail dangerously...Whenever there 's a story about a cell phone , or a laptop , exploding , the first thing the PR people do is complain about unlicensed 3rd party batteries .
When it 's pointed out that it has the company logo on it , they complain of 3rd parties selling bad batteries with a forged logo .
Does n't matter if it 's a brand new item you were just walking out of the store with , they will INSIST it was a 3rd party battery that blew up , and absolutely refuse to admit that their own batteries are n't perfect in every way... After all , for 4X the price , they MUST BE !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you don't believe that can happen, then I suggest you review all the stories of exploding laptop batteries.
It can and does happen.You, or Panasonic, are MOST WELCOME to PROVE that the rate at which 3rd party batteries fail dangerously, is notably higher than the rate at which Panasonic's own batteries fail dangerously...Whenever there's a story about a cell phone, or a laptop, exploding, the first thing the PR people do is complain about unlicensed 3rd party batteries.
When it's pointed out that it has the company logo on it, they complain of 3rd parties selling bad batteries with a forged logo.
Doesn't matter if it's a brand new item you were just walking out of the store with, they will INSIST it was a 3rd party battery that blew up, and absolutely refuse to admit that their own batteries aren't perfect in every way...  After all, for 4X the price, they MUST BE!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28460807</id>
	<title>Re:Standards?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245847860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They don't even say what the safety is for. Probably 'safety for panasonic profit margins'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They do n't even say what the safety is for .
Probably 'safety for panasonic profit margins' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They don't even say what the safety is for.
Probably 'safety for panasonic profit margins'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457075</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459719</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe good justification</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245842220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>High school is on line 2; they want their tacky gay-related putdowns back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>High school is on line 2 ; they want their tacky gay-related putdowns back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>High school is on line 2; they want their tacky gay-related putdowns back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457075</id>
	<title>Standards?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245875160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"some aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses."</p><p>It would be interesting to see what standards they refer to.  Is that a trade secret?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" some aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses .
" It would be interesting to see what standards they refer to .
Is that a trade secret ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"some aftermarket 3rd party batteries do not meet the rigid safety standards Panasonic uses.
"It would be interesting to see what standards they refer to.
Is that a trade secret?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457371</id>
	<title>Re:3d-Party?</title>
	<author>iamhassi</author>
	<datestamp>1245876300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"What's a 3D-Party"</i>
<br> <br>
Good question, you'll have to ask the author of the title of the article you commented:  <a href="http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/06/24/1851238/Panasonic-Begins-To-Lock-Out-3d-Party-Camera-Batteries?art\_pos=1" title="slashdot.org">"Panasonic Begins To Lock Out <b>3d-Party</b> Camera Batteries"</a> [slashdot.org].
<br> <br>
Probably just a misprint</htmltext>
<tokenext>" What 's a 3D-Party " Good question , you 'll have to ask the author of the title of the article you commented : " Panasonic Begins To Lock Out 3d-Party Camera Batteries " [ slashdot.org ] .
Probably just a misprint</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"What's a 3D-Party"
 
Good question, you'll have to ask the author of the title of the article you commented:  "Panasonic Begins To Lock Out 3d-Party Camera Batteries" [slashdot.org].
Probably just a misprint</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457033</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457565</id>
	<title>Re:Antitrust?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245877080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The simple fact that there is already more than one source for "Panasonic camera batteries" means that there is a market.</p><p>Currently one party in that market is leveraging a monopoly in another market, the "Panasonic camera" market, to stifle competition in the "Panasonic camera batteries" market.</p><p>Or, in easy slashdot terms, it is the same as Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer with Windows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The simple fact that there is already more than one source for " Panasonic camera batteries " means that there is a market.Currently one party in that market is leveraging a monopoly in another market , the " Panasonic camera " market , to stifle competition in the " Panasonic camera batteries " market.Or , in easy slashdot terms , it is the same as Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer with Windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The simple fact that there is already more than one source for "Panasonic camera batteries" means that there is a market.Currently one party in that market is leveraging a monopoly in another market, the "Panasonic camera" market, to stifle competition in the "Panasonic camera batteries" market.Or, in easy slashdot terms, it is the same as Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer with Windows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457063</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462745</id>
	<title>Well, hey?</title>
	<author>IonOtter</author>
	<datestamp>1245864120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At least their "update" isn't mandatory.  And at least it actually <i>tells you what its going to do</i>.</p><p>Now, if the next firmware update that comes down the pipe says, "You can't install this update until you install the previous one," then I'd say we have a legitimate beef.  Otherwise, just don't install it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At least their " update " is n't mandatory .
And at least it actually tells you what its going to do.Now , if the next firmware update that comes down the pipe says , " You ca n't install this update until you install the previous one , " then I 'd say we have a legitimate beef .
Otherwise , just do n't install it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least their "update" isn't mandatory.
And at least it actually tells you what its going to do.Now, if the next firmware update that comes down the pipe says, "You can't install this update until you install the previous one," then I'd say we have a legitimate beef.
Otherwise, just don't install it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457099</id>
	<title>Grrrr.</title>
	<author>apodyopsis</author>
	<datestamp>1245875280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A better solution would of been "This firmware update identifies the use of 3rd party batteries and alerts the user to the risk of using them. It monitors the voltage output and shuts down the camera if it determines that the battery is insufficient or possibly dangerous. And invalidates the warranty too". This would of left open the choice to the user - after all there are a great many very good 3rd party batteries and they have saved my bacon in the past.</p><p>By monitoring the voltage I mean the camera can detect an abnormally fast voltage drop against its usage that might mean a defective or damaged battery - naturally it cannot detect if the battery is about to get white hot and set fire to the camera, but hey the user was warned and the warranty invalidated. I would expect the manufacturer to check the damaged camera EEPROM and say "aha! according to our data log you used not panasonic batteries, thats no repair for you!".</p><p>By removing the element of choice they raise the natural suspicion that this decision was taken on commercial grounds, not safety and risk a consumer backlash and dissatisfaction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A better solution would of been " This firmware update identifies the use of 3rd party batteries and alerts the user to the risk of using them .
It monitors the voltage output and shuts down the camera if it determines that the battery is insufficient or possibly dangerous .
And invalidates the warranty too " .
This would of left open the choice to the user - after all there are a great many very good 3rd party batteries and they have saved my bacon in the past.By monitoring the voltage I mean the camera can detect an abnormally fast voltage drop against its usage that might mean a defective or damaged battery - naturally it can not detect if the battery is about to get white hot and set fire to the camera , but hey the user was warned and the warranty invalidated .
I would expect the manufacturer to check the damaged camera EEPROM and say " aha !
according to our data log you used not panasonic batteries , thats no repair for you !
" .By removing the element of choice they raise the natural suspicion that this decision was taken on commercial grounds , not safety and risk a consumer backlash and dissatisfaction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A better solution would of been "This firmware update identifies the use of 3rd party batteries and alerts the user to the risk of using them.
It monitors the voltage output and shuts down the camera if it determines that the battery is insufficient or possibly dangerous.
And invalidates the warranty too".
This would of left open the choice to the user - after all there are a great many very good 3rd party batteries and they have saved my bacon in the past.By monitoring the voltage I mean the camera can detect an abnormally fast voltage drop against its usage that might mean a defective or damaged battery - naturally it cannot detect if the battery is about to get white hot and set fire to the camera, but hey the user was warned and the warranty invalidated.
I would expect the manufacturer to check the damaged camera EEPROM and say "aha!
according to our data log you used not panasonic batteries, thats no repair for you!
".By removing the element of choice they raise the natural suspicion that this decision was taken on commercial grounds, not safety and risk a consumer backlash and dissatisfaction.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462055</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>muridae</author>
	<datestamp>1245857400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Which Sony cameras are locked to Memory Sticks? When I was looking at DSLRs, all of their Alpha line accepted Compact Flash. I thought most of their point-and-shoots were similar, with the ability to use both SD and Memory Sticks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Which Sony cameras are locked to Memory Sticks ?
When I was looking at DSLRs , all of their Alpha line accepted Compact Flash .
I thought most of their point-and-shoots were similar , with the ability to use both SD and Memory Sticks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which Sony cameras are locked to Memory Sticks?
When I was looking at DSLRs, all of their Alpha line accepted Compact Flash.
I thought most of their point-and-shoots were similar, with the ability to use both SD and Memory Sticks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457153</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457265</id>
	<title>Nothing New for Panasonic</title>
	<author>jizziknight</author>
	<datestamp>1245875940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I expect nothing less from them, actually. They have certified Panasonic electronics repair locations, after all. There's only one repair shop in my area that is certified. However, I do tend to like their products, and I've had very few issues or complaints with the ones I have. I would gladly pay the premium for their certified products/services, and have in the past, and have been very satisfied.</p><p>Could it be possible that they are doing this as a reaction to the laptop battery recalls? Perhaps they don't want to have to suffer the repercussions of a battery catching on fire or exploding in someone's hands or even face. If they limit the batteries that can be used to Panasonic certified ones, then this becomes less of an issue for them. If someone uses a non-certified battery, and it explodes in their face, Panasonic can try to dodge the litigation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I expect nothing less from them , actually .
They have certified Panasonic electronics repair locations , after all .
There 's only one repair shop in my area that is certified .
However , I do tend to like their products , and I 've had very few issues or complaints with the ones I have .
I would gladly pay the premium for their certified products/services , and have in the past , and have been very satisfied.Could it be possible that they are doing this as a reaction to the laptop battery recalls ?
Perhaps they do n't want to have to suffer the repercussions of a battery catching on fire or exploding in someone 's hands or even face .
If they limit the batteries that can be used to Panasonic certified ones , then this becomes less of an issue for them .
If someone uses a non-certified battery , and it explodes in their face , Panasonic can try to dodge the litigation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I expect nothing less from them, actually.
They have certified Panasonic electronics repair locations, after all.
There's only one repair shop in my area that is certified.
However, I do tend to like their products, and I've had very few issues or complaints with the ones I have.
I would gladly pay the premium for their certified products/services, and have in the past, and have been very satisfied.Could it be possible that they are doing this as a reaction to the laptop battery recalls?
Perhaps they don't want to have to suffer the repercussions of a battery catching on fire or exploding in someone's hands or even face.
If they limit the batteries that can be used to Panasonic certified ones, then this becomes less of an issue for them.
If someone uses a non-certified battery, and it explodes in their face, Panasonic can try to dodge the litigation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459513</id>
	<title>Re:Who?</title>
	<author>TheGratefulNet</author>
	<datestamp>1245841260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ob disc: I'm a long term pany cam shooter.</p><p>yes, they make cam.  they beat canon (you've heard of them, perhaps?) in the superzoom cat every year for the last years since the fz5 came out (4 yrs ago, I think).</p><p>their fz30 and to some extent the fz50 are classics.  nothing else has its feature set and can produce really fine quality shots (IFF you use noise reduction and follow some exposure/setting rules).</p><p>this is why the announcement by pany is so annoying.  they had a good fan base that knew the product line and followed it (what else could a company want than really loyal supporters?).  their in-lens OIS was really effective and it found its way into even pocket sized digicams.  people looked forward to the next model, etc.</p><p>but now, there is a big boycott going on in the pany camps (read the online forums and you'll see).  the discontinuation of the 'big fz' (fz50) was one huge blow; but the battery lock-in story is the final blow and enough to cause pany fans to leave the brand.</p><p>this WILL hurt them.  I wonder if they can find a graceful 'sorry, we were just kidding' story to back-out of this mess?</p><p>all other brands: look and learn.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ob disc : I 'm a long term pany cam shooter.yes , they make cam .
they beat canon ( you 've heard of them , perhaps ?
) in the superzoom cat every year for the last years since the fz5 came out ( 4 yrs ago , I think ) .their fz30 and to some extent the fz50 are classics .
nothing else has its feature set and can produce really fine quality shots ( IFF you use noise reduction and follow some exposure/setting rules ) .this is why the announcement by pany is so annoying .
they had a good fan base that knew the product line and followed it ( what else could a company want than really loyal supporters ? ) .
their in-lens OIS was really effective and it found its way into even pocket sized digicams .
people looked forward to the next model , etc.but now , there is a big boycott going on in the pany camps ( read the online forums and you 'll see ) .
the discontinuation of the 'big fz ' ( fz50 ) was one huge blow ; but the battery lock-in story is the final blow and enough to cause pany fans to leave the brand.this WILL hurt them .
I wonder if they can find a graceful 'sorry , we were just kidding ' story to back-out of this mess ? all other brands : look and learn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ob disc: I'm a long term pany cam shooter.yes, they make cam.
they beat canon (you've heard of them, perhaps?
) in the superzoom cat every year for the last years since the fz5 came out (4 yrs ago, I think).their fz30 and to some extent the fz50 are classics.
nothing else has its feature set and can produce really fine quality shots (IFF you use noise reduction and follow some exposure/setting rules).this is why the announcement by pany is so annoying.
they had a good fan base that knew the product line and followed it (what else could a company want than really loyal supporters?).
their in-lens OIS was really effective and it found its way into even pocket sized digicams.
people looked forward to the next model, etc.but now, there is a big boycott going on in the pany camps (read the online forums and you'll see).
the discontinuation of the 'big fz' (fz50) was one huge blow; but the battery lock-in story is the final blow and enough to cause pany fans to leave the brand.this WILL hurt them.
I wonder if they can find a graceful 'sorry, we were just kidding' story to back-out of this mess?all other brands: look and learn.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457257</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457209</id>
	<title>Great News</title>
	<author>symes</author>
	<datestamp>1245875700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Now I can cross Panasonic off my TV short-list - thanks for making life a little easier Panasonic!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now I can cross Panasonic off my TV short-list - thanks for making life a little easier Panasonic !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now I can cross Panasonic off my TV short-list - thanks for making life a little easier Panasonic!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456943</id>
	<title>Nice.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245874740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everyone wants to make a buck stifling competition and innovation these days.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone wants to make a buck stifling competition and innovation these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone wants to make a buck stifling competition and innovation these days.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457841</id>
	<title>Re:Antitrust?</title>
	<author>legirons</author>
	<datestamp>1245835020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Is the "Panasonic camera battery" market considered a market, in terms of antitrust law?  If so, are they setting themselves up for antitrust action?</p></div><p>in the same way that <a href="http://www.groklaw.net/search.php?query=psystar&amp;keyType=phrase&amp;datestart=&amp;dateend=&amp;topic=0&amp;type=stories&amp;author=0&amp;mode=search" title="groklaw.net">Apple-compatible computers</a> [groklaw.net] is considered a market...  (i.e. not at all)?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is the " Panasonic camera battery " market considered a market , in terms of antitrust law ?
If so , are they setting themselves up for antitrust action ? in the same way that Apple-compatible computers [ groklaw.net ] is considered a market... ( i.e. not at all ) ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is the "Panasonic camera battery" market considered a market, in terms of antitrust law?
If so, are they setting themselves up for antitrust action?in the same way that Apple-compatible computers [groklaw.net] is considered a market...  (i.e. not at all)?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457063</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28462751</id>
	<title>Then record the battery type.</title>
	<author>Myrv</author>
	<datestamp>1245864180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then the simple solution is to have the firmware record the batteries used. If the camera detects a 3rd party battery then toggle a warranty voiding bit in the firmware. If they want to be nice about it give the user a warning first (i.e. toggle the bit if the 3rd party battery is used twice or some such).  Admittedly this assumes the warranty bit is readable when the camera is brought in for work but I'm willing to bet it would be unless the damage was catastrophic (in which case there would probably be other evidence of what kind of battery was used).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then the simple solution is to have the firmware record the batteries used .
If the camera detects a 3rd party battery then toggle a warranty voiding bit in the firmware .
If they want to be nice about it give the user a warning first ( i.e .
toggle the bit if the 3rd party battery is used twice or some such ) .
Admittedly this assumes the warranty bit is readable when the camera is brought in for work but I 'm willing to bet it would be unless the damage was catastrophic ( in which case there would probably be other evidence of what kind of battery was used ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then the simple solution is to have the firmware record the batteries used.
If the camera detects a 3rd party battery then toggle a warranty voiding bit in the firmware.
If they want to be nice about it give the user a warning first (i.e.
toggle the bit if the 3rd party battery is used twice or some such).
Admittedly this assumes the warranty bit is readable when the camera is brought in for work but I'm willing to bet it would be unless the damage was catastrophic (in which case there would probably be other evidence of what kind of battery was used).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28465035</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>kjhart0133</author>
	<datestamp>1245937080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everyone should by a Panasonic product, then promptly return it for full refund.  Once Panasonic (and other evil manufacturers) start receiving thousands of return items, they may wake up to the fact that customers want to make their own choices.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone should by a Panasonic product , then promptly return it for full refund .
Once Panasonic ( and other evil manufacturers ) start receiving thousands of return items , they may wake up to the fact that customers want to make their own choices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone should by a Panasonic product, then promptly return it for full refund.
Once Panasonic (and other evil manufacturers) start receiving thousands of return items, they may wake up to the fact that customers want to make their own choices.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458675</id>
	<title>Generic batteries are a must for any of my devices</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245837780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have bought a number of music players, cameras and other electronic gadgets and my number 1 requirement is it must use standard off the shelf batteries (namely AA or AAA). This is for a number of reasons:</p><p>1) Avoid planned obsolescence - hardwired batteries (I'm looking at you Apple) mean the product will be useless by not holding a charge long before I'm done using it.<br>2) Emergency power - having proprietary batteries either hardwired or not means that if I run out of a charge while on a road trip or away from my charger, then I'm hooped - I have to wait up to hours for the battery to charge.</p><p>And now:</p><p>3) Stupid vendor lock in - I have better things to spend my money on than overpriced name brand accessories / supplies.</p><p>I look forward to the day when cellphones can efficiently run on 2 or 3 AAA's.</p><p>I just bought a lower end digital camera and steered away from Panasonic as soon as I realized they did not use AA or AAA batteries. Went with a Fuji S1000 - have been happy with it so far - uses the same NiMH AA batteries I have for my Olympus camera, iRiver MP3 player, and LogicTech cordless mouse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have bought a number of music players , cameras and other electronic gadgets and my number 1 requirement is it must use standard off the shelf batteries ( namely AA or AAA ) .
This is for a number of reasons : 1 ) Avoid planned obsolescence - hardwired batteries ( I 'm looking at you Apple ) mean the product will be useless by not holding a charge long before I 'm done using it.2 ) Emergency power - having proprietary batteries either hardwired or not means that if I run out of a charge while on a road trip or away from my charger , then I 'm hooped - I have to wait up to hours for the battery to charge.And now : 3 ) Stupid vendor lock in - I have better things to spend my money on than overpriced name brand accessories / supplies.I look forward to the day when cellphones can efficiently run on 2 or 3 AAA 's.I just bought a lower end digital camera and steered away from Panasonic as soon as I realized they did not use AA or AAA batteries .
Went with a Fuji S1000 - have been happy with it so far - uses the same NiMH AA batteries I have for my Olympus camera , iRiver MP3 player , and LogicTech cordless mouse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have bought a number of music players, cameras and other electronic gadgets and my number 1 requirement is it must use standard off the shelf batteries (namely AA or AAA).
This is for a number of reasons:1) Avoid planned obsolescence - hardwired batteries (I'm looking at you Apple) mean the product will be useless by not holding a charge long before I'm done using it.2) Emergency power - having proprietary batteries either hardwired or not means that if I run out of a charge while on a road trip or away from my charger, then I'm hooped - I have to wait up to hours for the battery to charge.And now:3) Stupid vendor lock in - I have better things to spend my money on than overpriced name brand accessories / supplies.I look forward to the day when cellphones can efficiently run on 2 or 3 AAA's.I just bought a lower end digital camera and steered away from Panasonic as soon as I realized they did not use AA or AAA batteries.
Went with a Fuji S1000 - have been happy with it so far - uses the same NiMH AA batteries I have for my Olympus camera, iRiver MP3 player, and LogicTech cordless mouse.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28463299</id>
	<title>Re:Nice.</title>
	<author>stephanruby</author>
	<datestamp>1245870360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Simple formula- right before the warranty expires, load in a very cheap off-brand battery that you have intentionally over-stressed, and use it until it pops and ruins the camera. Voila, for the price of a battery + shipping you can have a brand new $1,000 camera.</p></div></blockquote><p>It doesn't sound like this new system will prevent this. Making a battery explode/leak is not a problem if you're really dealing with a malicious customer.
</p><p>If the batteries are really that problematic, then may be, they should just try to make their battery chambers more liquid-resistant and/or explosion-resistant. </p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Simple formula- right before the warranty expires , load in a very cheap off-brand battery that you have intentionally over-stressed , and use it until it pops and ruins the camera .
Voila , for the price of a battery + shipping you can have a brand new $ 1,000 camera.It does n't sound like this new system will prevent this .
Making a battery explode/leak is not a problem if you 're really dealing with a malicious customer .
If the batteries are really that problematic , then may be , they should just try to make their battery chambers more liquid-resistant and/or explosion-resistant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Simple formula- right before the warranty expires, load in a very cheap off-brand battery that you have intentionally over-stressed, and use it until it pops and ruins the camera.
Voila, for the price of a battery + shipping you can have a brand new $1,000 camera.It doesn't sound like this new system will prevent this.
Making a battery explode/leak is not a problem if you're really dealing with a malicious customer.
If the batteries are really that problematic, then may be, they should just try to make their battery chambers more liquid-resistant and/or explosion-resistant. 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28457699</id>
	<title>Talk about knee-jerk responses</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245834360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Before posting, I read through the comments here to see if ANYONE had a clue regarding the dangers of Lithium Ion (and especially Lithium Polymer) batteries.</p><p>Nope.  Not a one.  Zero, zip, nada.  Everyone wants to bash Panasonic rather than do a little research first.</p><p>Talk about knee-jerk responses.</p><p>Listen, Lithium Ion technology is <a href="http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5B.htm" title="batteryuniversity.com" rel="nofollow">DANGEROUS</a> [batteryuniversity.com].  It <a href="http://www.batteryuniversity.com/images/partone-5b-3.jpg" title="batteryuniversity.com" rel="nofollow">catches fire easily</a> [batteryuniversity.com] -- <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcwOwf55Rtc" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">very easily</a> [youtube.com] -- and destroys everything around it.</p><p>Credit Sony, who is one of the pioneers (if not THE pioneer) of Lithium battery safety, for protecting their customers.</p><p>Sheesh, you people are as bad as any other herd of sheeple.  Not everything that a corporation does is evil.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Before posting , I read through the comments here to see if ANYONE had a clue regarding the dangers of Lithium Ion ( and especially Lithium Polymer ) batteries.Nope .
Not a one .
Zero , zip , nada .
Everyone wants to bash Panasonic rather than do a little research first.Talk about knee-jerk responses.Listen , Lithium Ion technology is DANGEROUS [ batteryuniversity.com ] .
It catches fire easily [ batteryuniversity.com ] -- very easily [ youtube.com ] -- and destroys everything around it.Credit Sony , who is one of the pioneers ( if not THE pioneer ) of Lithium battery safety , for protecting their customers.Sheesh , you people are as bad as any other herd of sheeple .
Not everything that a corporation does is evil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before posting, I read through the comments here to see if ANYONE had a clue regarding the dangers of Lithium Ion (and especially Lithium Polymer) batteries.Nope.
Not a one.
Zero, zip, nada.
Everyone wants to bash Panasonic rather than do a little research first.Talk about knee-jerk responses.Listen, Lithium Ion technology is DANGEROUS [batteryuniversity.com].
It catches fire easily [batteryuniversity.com] -- very easily [youtube.com] -- and destroys everything around it.Credit Sony, who is one of the pioneers (if not THE pioneer) of Lithium battery safety, for protecting their customers.Sheesh, you people are as bad as any other herd of sheeple.
Not everything that a corporation does is evil.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459431</id>
	<title>Re:Too bad for them</title>
	<author>christopherodonovan</author>
	<datestamp>1245840840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>It has joined Sony on my do-not-buy list.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It has joined Sony on my do-not-buy list .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It has joined Sony on my do-not-buy list.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28456949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458937</id>
	<title>Professional camcorders?</title>
	<author>grodybottlestein</author>
	<datestamp>1245838860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I sure hope this only applies to their consumer-level stuff. Anton-Bauer battery mount systems are pretty commonplace on their professional camcorders.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I sure hope this only applies to their consumer-level stuff .
Anton-Bauer battery mount systems are pretty commonplace on their professional camcorders .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I sure hope this only applies to their consumer-level stuff.
Anton-Bauer battery mount systems are pretty commonplace on their professional camcorders.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28459547</id>
	<title>Re:If I can't use common batteries, forget it</title>
	<author>PitaBred</author>
	<datestamp>1245841380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How expensive is it when you take a bad shot? Do you get instant feedback? Can it fit in your pocket? What about when it's dark? You said there are no batteries, so you can't have a flash. Unless you use a magnesium flash of some sort?<br> <br>
Besides, you'll have a harder and more expensive time finding film now that Kodachrome is being discontinued.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How expensive is it when you take a bad shot ?
Do you get instant feedback ?
Can it fit in your pocket ?
What about when it 's dark ?
You said there are no batteries , so you ca n't have a flash .
Unless you use a magnesium flash of some sort ?
Besides , you 'll have a harder and more expensive time finding film now that Kodachrome is being discontinued .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How expensive is it when you take a bad shot?
Do you get instant feedback?
Can it fit in your pocket?
What about when it's dark?
You said there are no batteries, so you can't have a flash.
Unless you use a magnesium flash of some sort?
Besides, you'll have a harder and more expensive time finding film now that Kodachrome is being discontinued.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_24_1851238.28458089</parent>
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