<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_22_1347228</id>
	<title>Mass Arrests of Journalists Follow Iran Elections</title>
	<author>CmdrTaco</author>
	<datestamp>1245681360000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.eff.org/support" rel="nofollow">I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property</a> writes <i>"Reporters Without Borders is alarmed by the fact that no less than <a href="http://www.rsf.org/Repression-stepped-up-yet-again-as.html">23 journalists have been arrested in Iran</a> in the week following the elections, making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalist.  Online activists are trying to counter this trend by giving <a href="http://boingboing.net/2009/06/16/cyberwar-guide-for-i.html">advice for helping Iranian protesters</a>.  One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that the reformers are puppets of foreign powers, so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>I Do n't Believe in Imaginary Property writes " Reporters Without Borders is alarmed by the fact that no less than 23 journalists have been arrested in Iran in the week following the elections , making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalist .
Online activists are trying to counter this trend by giving advice for helping Iranian protesters .
One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that the reformers are puppets of foreign powers , so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Reporters Without Borders is alarmed by the fact that no less than 23 journalists have been arrested in Iran in the week following the elections, making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalist.
Online activists are trying to counter this trend by giving advice for helping Iranian protesters.
One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that the reformers are puppets of foreign powers, so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423449</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1245689820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Jeez, don't they read the papers or watch it on tv? Oh, wait.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Jeez , do n't they read the papers or watch it on tv ?
Oh , wait .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Jeez, don't they read the papers or watch it on tv?
Oh, wait.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422533</id>
	<title>Why is anyone even the slightest bit surprised?</title>
	<author>goffster</author>
	<datestamp>1245686760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The entire series of events was predictable almost to the minute.   Mass bloodshed was never intended or delivered.<br>The Iranians did gain something, The "Supreme Ruler" may be less inclined to<br>precipitate these kinds of mass demonstrations by being more careful.  He realizes he<br>no longer has a blank check.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The entire series of events was predictable almost to the minute .
Mass bloodshed was never intended or delivered.The Iranians did gain something , The " Supreme Ruler " may be less inclined toprecipitate these kinds of mass demonstrations by being more careful .
He realizes heno longer has a blank check .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The entire series of events was predictable almost to the minute.
Mass bloodshed was never intended or delivered.The Iranians did gain something, The "Supreme Ruler" may be less inclined toprecipitate these kinds of mass demonstrations by being more careful.
He realizes heno longer has a blank check.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424221</id>
	<title>Re:dictatorships, cartels, democracy</title>
	<author>guruevi</author>
	<datestamp>1245692460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Absolute power corrupts absolutely.</p><p>I have worked for small companies with a tight-fisted CEO as you describe (as most dotcom's were) who didn't have to answer to nobody and the results were disastrous. You get somebody with a business degree filtering all decisions through him resulting in horrendous long meetings where you have to educate a CEO about your technical systems and issues and all-in-all the customer gets to be put on the back burner and the company fails. Look at Cuba under Fidel for a dictator that rules like that.</p><p>The more moderate CEO has to report to the board or to somebody else (shareholders), usually has CxO's that cooperate but do not report directly to him. It's more of a democracy by the oligarchy (like Iran). Ahmed is just a sock puppet of the religious oligarchy and is there for PR purposes. The other one however threatens the current ruling class since the other one wants to be more liberal and have less to do with the higher ups (kinda like a CEO wanting to buy out the company) - that's why he 'lost'.</p><p>Eventually Iran is going to get sick of it (either now or next election) and their religious class will have to step down (probably at the hands of a bloody revolution) - I would say all of the countries where currently religious entities (including leaders and followers) have most of the (elective) power will eventually get 'liberated' by the incoming younger generation and there are going to be some big changes. Similar to the US - the younger generation keeps getting disenfranchised by the religious 'old &amp; faithful' voting for the same party (The Republicrat party) - eventually (I would say within the next 3-5 elections) there will be a shift to something else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Absolute power corrupts absolutely.I have worked for small companies with a tight-fisted CEO as you describe ( as most dotcom 's were ) who did n't have to answer to nobody and the results were disastrous .
You get somebody with a business degree filtering all decisions through him resulting in horrendous long meetings where you have to educate a CEO about your technical systems and issues and all-in-all the customer gets to be put on the back burner and the company fails .
Look at Cuba under Fidel for a dictator that rules like that.The more moderate CEO has to report to the board or to somebody else ( shareholders ) , usually has CxO 's that cooperate but do not report directly to him .
It 's more of a democracy by the oligarchy ( like Iran ) .
Ahmed is just a sock puppet of the religious oligarchy and is there for PR purposes .
The other one however threatens the current ruling class since the other one wants to be more liberal and have less to do with the higher ups ( kinda like a CEO wanting to buy out the company ) - that 's why he 'lost'.Eventually Iran is going to get sick of it ( either now or next election ) and their religious class will have to step down ( probably at the hands of a bloody revolution ) - I would say all of the countries where currently religious entities ( including leaders and followers ) have most of the ( elective ) power will eventually get 'liberated ' by the incoming younger generation and there are going to be some big changes .
Similar to the US - the younger generation keeps getting disenfranchised by the religious 'old &amp; faithful ' voting for the same party ( The Republicrat party ) - eventually ( I would say within the next 3-5 elections ) there will be a shift to something else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Absolute power corrupts absolutely.I have worked for small companies with a tight-fisted CEO as you describe (as most dotcom's were) who didn't have to answer to nobody and the results were disastrous.
You get somebody with a business degree filtering all decisions through him resulting in horrendous long meetings where you have to educate a CEO about your technical systems and issues and all-in-all the customer gets to be put on the back burner and the company fails.
Look at Cuba under Fidel for a dictator that rules like that.The more moderate CEO has to report to the board or to somebody else (shareholders), usually has CxO's that cooperate but do not report directly to him.
It's more of a democracy by the oligarchy (like Iran).
Ahmed is just a sock puppet of the religious oligarchy and is there for PR purposes.
The other one however threatens the current ruling class since the other one wants to be more liberal and have less to do with the higher ups (kinda like a CEO wanting to buy out the company) - that's why he 'lost'.Eventually Iran is going to get sick of it (either now or next election) and their religious class will have to step down (probably at the hands of a bloody revolution) - I would say all of the countries where currently religious entities (including leaders and followers) have most of the (elective) power will eventually get 'liberated' by the incoming younger generation and there are going to be some big changes.
Similar to the US - the younger generation keeps getting disenfranchised by the religious 'old &amp; faithful' voting for the same party (The Republicrat party) - eventually (I would say within the next 3-5 elections) there will be a shift to something else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28426271</id>
	<title>Re:Fark has it right</title>
	<author>funkboy</author>
	<datestamp>1245699780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...it's crucial to keep track of what is real and what is FUD...  President Obama (who has yet to speak in support of the protesters)...</p></div><p><a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/the\_press\_office/Statement-from-the-President-on-Iran/" title="whitehouse.gov" rel="nofollow">way to spread some FUD there, chief</a> [whitehouse.gov] </p><p>"If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect the dignity of its own people and govern through consent, not coercion."</p><p>sounds like speaking in support of the protesters to me...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...it 's crucial to keep track of what is real and what is FUD... President Obama ( who has yet to speak in support of the protesters ) ...way to spread some FUD there , chief [ whitehouse.gov ] " If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community , it must respect the dignity of its own people and govern through consent , not coercion .
" sounds like speaking in support of the protesters to me.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...it's crucial to keep track of what is real and what is FUD...  President Obama (who has yet to speak in support of the protesters)...way to spread some FUD there, chief [whitehouse.gov] "If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect the dignity of its own people and govern through consent, not coercion.
"sounds like speaking in support of the protesters to me...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422469</id>
	<title>this is the smell</title>
	<author>thrillseeker</author>
	<datestamp>1245686520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So this is the smell of "vigorous debate" in the morning.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So this is the smell of " vigorous debate " in the morning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So this is the smell of "vigorous debate" in the morning.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422979</id>
	<title>Re:Foreign Influence in Iran Protests is Real</title>
	<author>Bearpaw</author>
	<datestamp>1245688260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's some truth to that, but -- assuming the election was stolen -- it looks like even those small differences were enough for Khomeini to step in, which points up just how short he wants the leash to be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's some truth to that , but -- assuming the election was stolen -- it looks like even those small differences were enough for Khomeini to step in , which points up just how short he wants the leash to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's some truth to that, but -- assuming the election was stolen -- it looks like even those small differences were enough for Khomeini to step in, which points up just how short he wants the leash to be.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28428643</id>
	<title>Re:you have it backwards</title>
	<author>StikyPad</author>
	<datestamp>1245664200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, and itar-tass doesn't have any stories on Iran whatsoever.</p><p>So I'm not saying I agree with the paranoid guy, but you didn't really support your case, <b>at all</b>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , and itar-tass does n't have any stories on Iran whatsoever.So I 'm not saying I agree with the paranoid guy , but you did n't really support your case , at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, and itar-tass doesn't have any stories on Iran whatsoever.So I'm not saying I agree with the paranoid guy, but you didn't really support your case, at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28427779</id>
	<title>What did they expect?</title>
	<author>sherriw</author>
	<datestamp>1245661380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While I'm very glad their are reporters willing to go to places like this and report on what's going on, whenever I hear stories like this I can't help wondering: "You know this country isn't particularly safe for it's own citizens, what did you think would happen to you if you work/vacation/report from there?"</p><p>Granted this doesn't make it ok. It's just not... shocking. At all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While I 'm very glad their are reporters willing to go to places like this and report on what 's going on , whenever I hear stories like this I ca n't help wondering : " You know this country is n't particularly safe for it 's own citizens , what did you think would happen to you if you work/vacation/report from there ?
" Granted this does n't make it ok. It 's just not... shocking. At all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I'm very glad their are reporters willing to go to places like this and report on what's going on, whenever I hear stories like this I can't help wondering: "You know this country isn't particularly safe for it's own citizens, what did you think would happen to you if you work/vacation/report from there?
"Granted this doesn't make it ok. It's just not... shocking. At all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28427143</id>
	<title>Re:hey</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1245702780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The lawyers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The lawyers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The lawyers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28428987</id>
	<title>Re:Standing up</title>
	<author>clifgriffin</author>
	<datestamp>1245665400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's right, under no circumstances should we demand an evil government do something other than oppress their own people. Such "tough diplomacy" might send the wrong idea.</p><p>Can you imagine what would have happened if Ronald Reagan had told Gorbachev to tear down that wall?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's right , under no circumstances should we demand an evil government do something other than oppress their own people .
Such " tough diplomacy " might send the wrong idea.Can you imagine what would have happened if Ronald Reagan had told Gorbachev to tear down that wall ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's right, under no circumstances should we demand an evil government do something other than oppress their own people.
Such "tough diplomacy" might send the wrong idea.Can you imagine what would have happened if Ronald Reagan had told Gorbachev to tear down that wall?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422135</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424379</id>
	<title>Another Ctry W/ A Failed Generational Transition</title>
	<author>GreekGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1245693060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most countries of this world seem to have strong governments, but, lack the necessary transitional mechansims to pass the baton from one generation to the next.  Or they may have the mechanism, but, it is typically violent.</p><p>Russia, Greece, Iraq, Pakistan, and Iran come to mind as examples of this problem.</p><p>I believe that the condition in Iran is an example of older generations failing to pass the baton to the next generation.  The riots in Greece earlier this year had basically the same overriding foundation but a different trigger (in Iran it was the election, in Greece it was a police shooting).</p><p>Governments must respect generational transitions and allowing younger generations increasing responsibility in their lives and in their countries.</p><p>Otherwise, revolts, riots, and revolution will occur.</p><p>Just my two cents...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most countries of this world seem to have strong governments , but , lack the necessary transitional mechansims to pass the baton from one generation to the next .
Or they may have the mechanism , but , it is typically violent.Russia , Greece , Iraq , Pakistan , and Iran come to mind as examples of this problem.I believe that the condition in Iran is an example of older generations failing to pass the baton to the next generation .
The riots in Greece earlier this year had basically the same overriding foundation but a different trigger ( in Iran it was the election , in Greece it was a police shooting ) .Governments must respect generational transitions and allowing younger generations increasing responsibility in their lives and in their countries.Otherwise , revolts , riots , and revolution will occur.Just my two cents.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most countries of this world seem to have strong governments, but, lack the necessary transitional mechansims to pass the baton from one generation to the next.
Or they may have the mechanism, but, it is typically violent.Russia, Greece, Iraq, Pakistan, and Iran come to mind as examples of this problem.I believe that the condition in Iran is an example of older generations failing to pass the baton to the next generation.
The riots in Greece earlier this year had basically the same overriding foundation but a different trigger (in Iran it was the election, in Greece it was a police shooting).Governments must respect generational transitions and allowing younger generations increasing responsibility in their lives and in their countries.Otherwise, revolts, riots, and revolution will occur.Just my two cents...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422459</id>
	<title>Re:Standing up</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245686460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The cool thing about the Iranian election controversy is that the idea of democracy seems to have spread, not to foreign nations, but to foreign peoples. The Western crusade for democracy is now running itself, and unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, no one is to blame for the Iranian protesters but themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The cool thing about the Iranian election controversy is that the idea of democracy seems to have spread , not to foreign nations , but to foreign peoples .
The Western crusade for democracy is now running itself , and unlike Iraq and Afghanistan , no one is to blame for the Iranian protesters but themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The cool thing about the Iranian election controversy is that the idea of democracy seems to have spread, not to foreign nations, but to foreign peoples.
The Western crusade for democracy is now running itself, and unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, no one is to blame for the Iranian protesters but themselves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422135</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422285</id>
	<title>Deligitemized indeed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they're puppets of foreign powers"<br>It takes no more than one Google query for green (orange, pink, whatever color) glasses to come down quickly:<br>http://www.google.com/search?q=400+million+iran</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they 're puppets of foreign powers " It takes no more than one Google query for green ( orange , pink , whatever color ) glasses to come down quickly : http : //www.google.com/search ? q = 400 + million + iran</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they're puppets of foreign powers"It takes no more than one Google query for green (orange, pink, whatever color) glasses to come down quickly:http://www.google.com/search?q=400+million+iran</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423885</id>
	<title>Re:hey</title>
	<author>PeterBrett</author>
	<datestamp>1245691440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Now, here's a pop quiz. If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM, Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft... Who would you cheer for?</p></div><p>Your momma, obviously!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now , here 's a pop quiz .
If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM , Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft... Who would you cheer for ? Your momma , obviously !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now, here's a pop quiz.
If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM, Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft... Who would you cheer for?Your momma, obviously!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422013</id>
	<title>Surprised</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Honestly, I was surprised the backlash against this didn't happen sooner. I guess this just confirms western fears that the elections in Iran were indeed a farce.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Honestly , I was surprised the backlash against this did n't happen sooner .
I guess this just confirms western fears that the elections in Iran were indeed a farce .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honestly, I was surprised the backlash against this didn't happen sooner.
I guess this just confirms western fears that the elections in Iran were indeed a farce.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423421</id>
	<title>The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245689760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., the army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people. Period.
<p>
After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market. Except for Romania (where its people killed its dictator), there was no violence.
</p><p>
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians. The folks running the government are Iranian. The president is Iranian. The secret police are Iranian. The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
</p><p>
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur. Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
</p><p>
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government. We must condemn Iranian culture. Its product is the authoritarian state.
</p><p>
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran. If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence. Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy. The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
</p><p>
The Iranians created this horrible society. It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons. We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
</p><p>
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans. They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people. Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West. Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society. They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
</p><p>
Cultures are different. Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different. The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran. We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the absence of an external interfering force ( e. g. , the army of the Soviet Union ) , the fate of a nation is determined by its people .
Period . After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe , the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market .
Except for Romania ( where its people killed its dictator ) , there was no violence .
In Iran ( and many other failed states ) , no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians .
The folks running the government are Iranian .
The president is Iranian .
The secret police are Iranian .
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian .
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran , violence will occur .
Why ? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates .
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government .
We must condemn Iranian culture .
Its product is the authoritarian state .
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran .
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians ( like the overwhelming majority of Poles ) truly support democracy , human rights , and peace with Israel , then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence .
Right now , the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy .
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy .
The Iranians created this horrible society .
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons .
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities .
Note that , 40 years ago , Vietnam suffered a worse fate ( than the Iranians ) at the hands of the Americans .
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange , poisoning both the land and the people .
Yet , the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge ( by , e. g. , building a nuclear bomb ) against the West .
Rather , the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society .
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians .
Cultures are different .
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different .
The Iranians bear 100 \ % of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran .
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., the army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people.
Period.

After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market.
Except for Romania (where its people killed its dictator), there was no violence.
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.
The folks running the government are Iranian.
The president is Iranian.
The secret police are Iranian.
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur.
Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government.
We must condemn Iranian culture.
Its product is the authoritarian state.
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran.
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence.
Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy.
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
The Iranians created this horrible society.
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans.
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people.
Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West.
Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society.
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
Cultures are different.
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different.
The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran.
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422077</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</id>
	<title>dictatorships, cartels, democracy</title>
	<author>goffster</author>
	<datestamp>1245687300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think a large number of people (Americans especially) automatically think a dictatorship is<br>a bad thing.   A dictatorship is generally bad for Americans but perhaps good for other people.<br>There are benefits to a dictatorship.     When you have a good dictator, things are generally pretty<br>good.  The trick is to avoid the bad dictator.</p><p>As an analogy, think of a software company where the CEO was voted in by all the developers.<br>This software company is almost certain to never be competitive with a company that<br>is run by a tight-fisted, smart, savvy CEO.</p><p>So which company would you want to work for?<br>It would depend on your goals.   Do you want to make money with Stock options?   Do you simply<br>want to program any cool thing you wanted?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think a large number of people ( Americans especially ) automatically think a dictatorship isa bad thing .
A dictatorship is generally bad for Americans but perhaps good for other people.There are benefits to a dictatorship .
When you have a good dictator , things are generally prettygood .
The trick is to avoid the bad dictator.As an analogy , think of a software company where the CEO was voted in by all the developers.This software company is almost certain to never be competitive with a company thatis run by a tight-fisted , smart , savvy CEO.So which company would you want to work for ? It would depend on your goals .
Do you want to make money with Stock options ?
Do you simplywant to program any cool thing you wanted ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think a large number of people (Americans especially) automatically think a dictatorship isa bad thing.
A dictatorship is generally bad for Americans but perhaps good for other people.There are benefits to a dictatorship.
When you have a good dictator, things are generally prettygood.
The trick is to avoid the bad dictator.As an analogy, think of a software company where the CEO was voted in by all the developers.This software company is almost certain to never be competitive with a company thatis run by a tight-fisted, smart, savvy CEO.So which company would you want to work for?It would depend on your goals.
Do you want to make money with Stock options?
Do you simplywant to program any cool thing you wanted?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28431159</id>
	<title>Re:dictatorships, cartels, democracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245673320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>No, you are wrong and an ass for suggesting it.<br><br>All human beings are the same, and function best when they are free.</tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , you are wrong and an ass for suggesting it.All human beings are the same , and function best when they are free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, you are wrong and an ass for suggesting it.All human beings are the same, and function best when they are free.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422115</id>
	<title>Why do you think they call it I Ran?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because after a day of protesting and being chased down by the military, when you get home and your wife asks how your day was, you say "I ran and I ran and I ran and I ran and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because after a day of protesting and being chased down by the military , when you get home and your wife asks how your day was , you say " I ran and I ran and I ran and I ran and .... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because after a day of protesting and being chased down by the military, when you get home and your wife asks how your day was, you say "I ran and I ran and I ran and I ran and ...."</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28426161</id>
	<title>Re:Exactly what I was thinking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245699300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Don't get involved, because apart from anything else, you are not on record as having intervened in a single foreign country, (except, maybe, during WW2) where it actually worked out well, for either you, or the other country involved. Vietnam was a mess, and Iraq largely has been both times. Do you really think Iran won't be?</p> </div><p>Wow, we "may" have helped in WW2? You are an idiot, an anti-American zealot, and basically an a55hole, if you can't even give America any grudging credit for bailing essentially the entire European continent out of the fire (for a second time)</p><p>America TRIED isolationism, we made an honest, nationalist effort to stay away, just read up on Fortress America or American Isolationism in the beginning of the 20th century to get some insight into that.</p><p>It's funny, you get all p1ssy when you read about American "involvement" in foreign countries internal policies, but I can <b> PROMISE YOU </b> that whatever nation had the mis-fortune of having you as it's citizen, has been involved in foreign intelligence gathering/manipulation/ out and out acts of clandestine war. It's the nature of the Modern Imperial beast, and no "non 3rd world nation" hasn't commited those acts to some degree.</p><p>You, and your ilk need to pull your head out of your a55 sometime and understand that America would be happy to stay out of the world's problems but the world won't let us. ALSO! would you have us sit by and allow another 10 million of so Jews be exterminated? or maybe at least try to help duly elected democratic nations try to fend off the yoke of Communism when it was trying to assimilate countries like Vietnam or Korea.</p><p>And no, I'm not ignorant enough to think that any nations is just begging big ole' America to come save them, but how much can we sit idle through, while being accused of <b> not doing enough! </b> before we have to come out of isolation and do something about it?</p><p>Look at modern history, Pearl Harbor pulled us into WW2, France being attacked in Vietnam sucked our interest in there, Iraq invades Kuwait who came to US FOR AID, and then 9/11 happens, which forces us to retaliate and attack Iraq/Afghanistan (which I don't really agree with either, but we most certainly can't allow THOUSANDS of American citizens die on our own soil and NOT do something).</p><p>Ask yourself how indignant you'd be about us, (and yes I am assuming you live somewhere in Europe) if we had allowed the Nazis to swallow Europe whole, basically wipe out the Jewish population, Euthanize non-aryans, and subjugate all modern Westernized nations into a totalitarian Hitler-led empire. I bet you would complain then about us NOT doing anything to help, though I would doubt you'd have ever been born, or be able to go on the Internet, or even have enough well being to have the luxury to give a sh1t about Iran............</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't get involved , because apart from anything else , you are not on record as having intervened in a single foreign country , ( except , maybe , during WW2 ) where it actually worked out well , for either you , or the other country involved .
Vietnam was a mess , and Iraq largely has been both times .
Do you really think Iran wo n't be ?
Wow , we " may " have helped in WW2 ?
You are an idiot , an anti-American zealot , and basically an a55hole , if you ca n't even give America any grudging credit for bailing essentially the entire European continent out of the fire ( for a second time ) America TRIED isolationism , we made an honest , nationalist effort to stay away , just read up on Fortress America or American Isolationism in the beginning of the 20th century to get some insight into that.It 's funny , you get all p1ssy when you read about American " involvement " in foreign countries internal policies , but I can PROMISE YOU that whatever nation had the mis-fortune of having you as it 's citizen , has been involved in foreign intelligence gathering/manipulation/ out and out acts of clandestine war .
It 's the nature of the Modern Imperial beast , and no " non 3rd world nation " has n't commited those acts to some degree.You , and your ilk need to pull your head out of your a55 sometime and understand that America would be happy to stay out of the world 's problems but the world wo n't let us .
ALSO ! would you have us sit by and allow another 10 million of so Jews be exterminated ?
or maybe at least try to help duly elected democratic nations try to fend off the yoke of Communism when it was trying to assimilate countries like Vietnam or Korea.And no , I 'm not ignorant enough to think that any nations is just begging big ole ' America to come save them , but how much can we sit idle through , while being accused of not doing enough !
before we have to come out of isolation and do something about it ? Look at modern history , Pearl Harbor pulled us into WW2 , France being attacked in Vietnam sucked our interest in there , Iraq invades Kuwait who came to US FOR AID , and then 9/11 happens , which forces us to retaliate and attack Iraq/Afghanistan ( which I do n't really agree with either , but we most certainly ca n't allow THOUSANDS of American citizens die on our own soil and NOT do something ) .Ask yourself how indignant you 'd be about us , ( and yes I am assuming you live somewhere in Europe ) if we had allowed the Nazis to swallow Europe whole , basically wipe out the Jewish population , Euthanize non-aryans , and subjugate all modern Westernized nations into a totalitarian Hitler-led empire .
I bet you would complain then about us NOT doing anything to help , though I would doubt you 'd have ever been born , or be able to go on the Internet , or even have enough well being to have the luxury to give a sh1t about Iran........... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Don't get involved, because apart from anything else, you are not on record as having intervened in a single foreign country, (except, maybe, during WW2) where it actually worked out well, for either you, or the other country involved.
Vietnam was a mess, and Iraq largely has been both times.
Do you really think Iran won't be?
Wow, we "may" have helped in WW2?
You are an idiot, an anti-American zealot, and basically an a55hole, if you can't even give America any grudging credit for bailing essentially the entire European continent out of the fire (for a second time)America TRIED isolationism, we made an honest, nationalist effort to stay away, just read up on Fortress America or American Isolationism in the beginning of the 20th century to get some insight into that.It's funny, you get all p1ssy when you read about American "involvement" in foreign countries internal policies, but I can  PROMISE YOU  that whatever nation had the mis-fortune of having you as it's citizen, has been involved in foreign intelligence gathering/manipulation/ out and out acts of clandestine war.
It's the nature of the Modern Imperial beast, and no "non 3rd world nation" hasn't commited those acts to some degree.You, and your ilk need to pull your head out of your a55 sometime and understand that America would be happy to stay out of the world's problems but the world won't let us.
ALSO! would you have us sit by and allow another 10 million of so Jews be exterminated?
or maybe at least try to help duly elected democratic nations try to fend off the yoke of Communism when it was trying to assimilate countries like Vietnam or Korea.And no, I'm not ignorant enough to think that any nations is just begging big ole' America to come save them, but how much can we sit idle through, while being accused of  not doing enough!
before we have to come out of isolation and do something about it?Look at modern history, Pearl Harbor pulled us into WW2, France being attacked in Vietnam sucked our interest in there, Iraq invades Kuwait who came to US FOR AID, and then 9/11 happens, which forces us to retaliate and attack Iraq/Afghanistan (which I don't really agree with either, but we most certainly can't allow THOUSANDS of American citizens die on our own soil and NOT do something).Ask yourself how indignant you'd be about us, (and yes I am assuming you live somewhere in Europe) if we had allowed the Nazis to swallow Europe whole, basically wipe out the Jewish population, Euthanize non-aryans, and subjugate all modern Westernized nations into a totalitarian Hitler-led empire.
I bet you would complain then about us NOT doing anything to help, though I would doubt you'd have ever been born, or be able to go on the Internet, or even have enough well being to have the luxury to give a sh1t about Iran............
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423909</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422409</id>
	<title>Duh</title>
	<author>copponex</author>
	<datestamp>1245686340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The CIA.</p><p>We'll find out in five years than the <a href="http://www.france24.com/en/20080701-us-funding-secret-ops-against-iran-us-iran" title="france24.com"> hundreds of millions of dollars approved last year</a> [france24.com] were for the purpose of overthrowing the Iranian government. That'll be the second time we've ousted their government. Should be good for relations in the future, don't you think?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The CIA.We 'll find out in five years than the hundreds of millions of dollars approved last year [ france24.com ] were for the purpose of overthrowing the Iranian government .
That 'll be the second time we 've ousted their government .
Should be good for relations in the future , do n't you think ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The CIA.We'll find out in five years than the  hundreds of millions of dollars approved last year [france24.com] were for the purpose of overthrowing the Iranian government.
That'll be the second time we've ousted their government.
Should be good for relations in the future, don't you think?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422189</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423287</id>
	<title>Re:What does it take to topple regime?</title>
	<author>Bearpaw</author>
	<datestamp>1245689340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In most situations, I think the tipping point is generally the support -- or at minimum, the lack of opposition -- of the military and/or security service(s).  Of course, that just pushes the question back one level: What does it take to get the military and/or security service(s) to walk away from the current regime?</p><p>That depends on a mix of factors concerning the priorities of the leadership of services: stability, honor, and personal benefit in terms of power and/or money.  The ratio of the mix depends in general on how those leaders came to be leaders, and varies from person to person.  Do you appeal to them by convincing them that the current regime can't maintain order?  Do you try to make the argument that their honor is not so much about obeying the current regime as about serving the country?  Do you convince them that they'd be personally better-off under a new regime?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In most situations , I think the tipping point is generally the support -- or at minimum , the lack of opposition -- of the military and/or security service ( s ) .
Of course , that just pushes the question back one level : What does it take to get the military and/or security service ( s ) to walk away from the current regime ? That depends on a mix of factors concerning the priorities of the leadership of services : stability , honor , and personal benefit in terms of power and/or money .
The ratio of the mix depends in general on how those leaders came to be leaders , and varies from person to person .
Do you appeal to them by convincing them that the current regime ca n't maintain order ?
Do you try to make the argument that their honor is not so much about obeying the current regime as about serving the country ?
Do you convince them that they 'd be personally better-off under a new regime ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In most situations, I think the tipping point is generally the support -- or at minimum, the lack of opposition -- of the military and/or security service(s).
Of course, that just pushes the question back one level: What does it take to get the military and/or security service(s) to walk away from the current regime?That depends on a mix of factors concerning the priorities of the leadership of services: stability, honor, and personal benefit in terms of power and/or money.
The ratio of the mix depends in general on how those leaders came to be leaders, and varies from person to person.
Do you appeal to them by convincing them that the current regime can't maintain order?
Do you try to make the argument that their honor is not so much about obeying the current regime as about serving the country?
Do you convince them that they'd be personally better-off under a new regime?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422189</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423893</id>
	<title>Reminds me of a quote...</title>
	<author>Digital End</author>
	<datestamp>1245691440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
<br>- Sid Meier, Alpha Centaur</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Beware of he who would deny you access to information , for in his heart he dreams himself your master .
" - Sid Meier , Alpha Centaur</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
"
- Sid Meier, Alpha Centaur</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422953</id>
	<title>Re:that's nothing- try the political conventions h</title>
	<author>e9th</author>
	<datestamp>1245688200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The last decade? Guess you missed the '68 DNC in Chicago.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The last decade ?
Guess you missed the '68 DNC in Chicago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The last decade?
Guess you missed the '68 DNC in Chicago.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422405</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423389</id>
	<title>expedient</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245689700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>hate is politically expedient, like with our governments.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>hate is politically expedient , like with our governments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hate is politically expedient, like with our governments.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422333</id>
	<title>hey</title>
	<author>ILongForDarkness</author>
	<datestamp>1245686160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The only way you can disagree with me is if you are under the influence of the Great Satan. So either you agree with me, or you are obviously evil. What better argument could you want?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only way you can disagree with me is if you are under the influence of the Great Satan .
So either you agree with me , or you are obviously evil .
What better argument could you want ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only way you can disagree with me is if you are under the influence of the Great Satan.
So either you agree with me, or you are obviously evil.
What better argument could you want?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422283</id>
	<title>You got to hand it to them</title>
	<author>Chrisq</author>
	<datestamp>1245685980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>In some countries the people <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_presidential\_election,\_2000" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">would just give in</a> [wikipedia.org] when an unelected legislature tries to overturn a majority decision.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In some countries the people would just give in [ wikipedia.org ] when an unelected legislature tries to overturn a majority decision .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In some countries the people would just give in [wikipedia.org] when an unelected legislature tries to overturn a majority decision.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28426045</id>
	<title>Re:you have it backwards</title>
	<author>hitmark</author>
	<datestamp>1245698940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."</p><p>Its not so much that the news is controlled, as that they end up reporting about what they think make most people buy their printed materials, or keep their channel of transmission tuned in...</p><p>Its all about ad sales, and some celebrity pulling a faux pas is seen as selling more then some government pulling a fast one...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence .
" Its not so much that the news is controlled , as that they end up reporting about what they think make most people buy their printed materials , or keep their channel of transmission tuned in...Its all about ad sales , and some celebrity pulling a faux pas is seen as selling more then some government pulling a fast one.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
"Its not so much that the news is controlled, as that they end up reporting about what they think make most people buy their printed materials, or keep their channel of transmission tuned in...Its all about ad sales, and some celebrity pulling a faux pas is seen as selling more then some government pulling a fast one...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28437801</id>
	<title>Use common sense</title>
	<author>khchung</author>
	<datestamp>1245766560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As to whether a foreign power is involved, I think that is an extremely difficult question to answer as a remote consumer of "news" and Internet reports.</p></div><p>Actually, it is quite easy.  Just use common sense.</p><p>Want to know if foreign country X is involved, just consider these 2 questions:</p><p>1. Is it in the interest of country X to do so?<br>2. Does country X has the capability to do so without getting caught and does country X even care about getting caught?</p><p>As you say, since it is difficult to proof anything, it would easy for country X to cover their tracks to avoid any backlash.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As to whether a foreign power is involved , I think that is an extremely difficult question to answer as a remote consumer of " news " and Internet reports.Actually , it is quite easy .
Just use common sense.Want to know if foreign country X is involved , just consider these 2 questions : 1 .
Is it in the interest of country X to do so ? 2 .
Does country X has the capability to do so without getting caught and does country X even care about getting caught ? As you say , since it is difficult to proof anything , it would easy for country X to cover their tracks to avoid any backlash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As to whether a foreign power is involved, I think that is an extremely difficult question to answer as a remote consumer of "news" and Internet reports.Actually, it is quite easy.
Just use common sense.Want to know if foreign country X is involved, just consider these 2 questions:1.
Is it in the interest of country X to do so?2.
Does country X has the capability to do so without getting caught and does country X even care about getting caught?As you say, since it is difficult to proof anything, it would easy for country X to cover their tracks to avoid any backlash.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422651</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422301</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>gubers33</author>
	<datestamp>1245686040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is difficult to say that the elections were or were not a farce. If they were fair, I feel as though the protest would be less pronounced. As well, I don't think Ayatollah Ali Khamenei would have threatened his people like he did if the elections were fair. I think a lot of people knew the elections were rigged from the get go, but few wanted to come out and say it. I agree there would probably have been a clampdown if the elections were fair and a protest ensued, but it would have been far less severe.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is difficult to say that the elections were or were not a farce .
If they were fair , I feel as though the protest would be less pronounced .
As well , I do n't think Ayatollah Ali Khamenei would have threatened his people like he did if the elections were fair .
I think a lot of people knew the elections were rigged from the get go , but few wanted to come out and say it .
I agree there would probably have been a clampdown if the elections were fair and a protest ensued , but it would have been far less severe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is difficult to say that the elections were or were not a farce.
If they were fair, I feel as though the protest would be less pronounced.
As well, I don't think Ayatollah Ali Khamenei would have threatened his people like he did if the elections were fair.
I think a lot of people knew the elections were rigged from the get go, but few wanted to come out and say it.
I agree there would probably have been a clampdown if the elections were fair and a protest ensued, but it would have been far less severe.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424609</id>
	<title>Re:dictatorships, cartels, democracy</title>
	<author>everynerd</author>
	<datestamp>1245693780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And when the inevitable electoral facade rolls around, everyone opposed will gather in the hallways and throw diskettes at the gathering security personnel outside the CEO's office.</p><p>But it's all cool because the CEO says he's a good guy and hasn't hurt us yet, and more importantly, we have our jobs.  He says we should go home or we'll be subject to pay cuts or even termination. Probably a good idea to leave and put our faith in the system that the fair decision was made. After all, he said so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And when the inevitable electoral facade rolls around , everyone opposed will gather in the hallways and throw diskettes at the gathering security personnel outside the CEO 's office.But it 's all cool because the CEO says he 's a good guy and has n't hurt us yet , and more importantly , we have our jobs .
He says we should go home or we 'll be subject to pay cuts or even termination .
Probably a good idea to leave and put our faith in the system that the fair decision was made .
After all , he said so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And when the inevitable electoral facade rolls around, everyone opposed will gather in the hallways and throw diskettes at the gathering security personnel outside the CEO's office.But it's all cool because the CEO says he's a good guy and hasn't hurt us yet, and more importantly, we have our jobs.
He says we should go home or we'll be subject to pay cuts or even termination.
Probably a good idea to leave and put our faith in the system that the fair decision was made.
After all, he said so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422943</id>
	<title>History shows</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245688140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want a war, piss of some journalists. If you want a really BIG war, piss off a lot of journalists.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want a war , piss of some journalists .
If you want a really BIG war , piss off a lot of journalists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want a war, piss of some journalists.
If you want a really BIG war, piss off a lot of journalists.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423041</id>
	<title>Re:i understand the historical reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245688560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>CNN was great last night, some Iranian spokesperson having a press conference declaring that there is no freedom of speech or privacy in Western countries and declaring that hence it must be a conspiracy by western governments that iranian embassies have seen disrupted by protests and so on. And that such a thing is unacceptable.</p><p>Because Iran has never, say, assaulted a foreign embassy and taken those inside hostage or anything like that.</p><p>Certainly never restricted freedom of speech by locking up reporters, or invaded the privacy of people by snooping on their electronic communications.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>CNN was great last night , some Iranian spokesperson having a press conference declaring that there is no freedom of speech or privacy in Western countries and declaring that hence it must be a conspiracy by western governments that iranian embassies have seen disrupted by protests and so on .
And that such a thing is unacceptable.Because Iran has never , say , assaulted a foreign embassy and taken those inside hostage or anything like that.Certainly never restricted freedom of speech by locking up reporters , or invaded the privacy of people by snooping on their electronic communications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CNN was great last night, some Iranian spokesperson having a press conference declaring that there is no freedom of speech or privacy in Western countries and declaring that hence it must be a conspiracy by western governments that iranian embassies have seen disrupted by protests and so on.
And that such a thing is unacceptable.Because Iran has never, say, assaulted a foreign embassy and taken those inside hostage or anything like that.Certainly never restricted freedom of speech by locking up reporters, or invaded the privacy of people by snooping on their electronic communications.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423909</id>
	<title>Exactly what I was thinking</title>
	<author>petrus4</author>
	<datestamp>1245691500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they're puppets of foreign powers.</i></p><p>(Mod this down again, if you want; I'm going to keep making this argument until someone finally has the spine to actually respond to me)</p><p>The only problem with this is, that's fairly likely exactly what the reform movement genuinely is.  Is anyone honestly going to try and tell me with a straight face that the reform movement would <b>not</b> have CIA agents within its' ranks?</p><p>Truthfully, if I'd been the leader of the Chinese government at the time of Tienanmen Square, the first thing I would have done would be to broadcast a message announcing that if all of the American intelligence people were to come forward out of the crowd and give themselves up, none of the actual university students would be harmed.</p><p>This is the single main reason why this entire issue (Iran, currently) is pissing me off to the degree that it is.</p><p>Americans want to get involved purely because they still view their role as being to solve the political and/or moral problems of everyone else on the planet.  The only problem is that George W. Bush eloquently proved (even if none of your earlier leaders did) that you don't have the ability to solve your own problems.  A tyrant and a murderer held office as the President for eight years, and virtually none of you did anything to challenge him.</p><p>Because of this, any desire you might have to be involved with the current turmoil in Iraq has exactly zero moral credibility.  You let a tyrant hold office in your own country, but you still think that you have a moral imperative to help remove tyrants from other people's.</p><p>You are not rightfully the planet's police force, Americans.  The only reason why any of you think that, is because you've been brainwashed to think it by your country's education system.  I'm aware, however, that nobody who is capable of truly rational thought will respond to that statement, since nobody who is capable of rational thought actually believes in the exceptionalist global police idea.</p><p>The current regime in Iran might well genuinely need to be removed, but if you want to truly do the right thing where another country is concerned, for once, then back off and let the Iranian people figure out how to do that for themselves.  Don't get involved, because apart from anything else, you are not on record as having intervened in a single foreign country, (except, maybe, during WW2) where it actually worked out well, for either you, or the other country involved.  Vietnam was a mess, and Iraq largely has been both times.  Do you really think Iran won't be?</p><p>Let the Iranian people sort it out.  Don't sell them arms, don't try and escalate things either way, and pull your damn spooks out if they are there.  (And of course, they would be at this point, even if they weren't earlier)</p><p>Any new government, in order for it to be legitimate, will have to be something that the Iranian people have devised for themselves, and if there is a tyranny that needs to be removed, <b>Iranian</b> blood needs to be shed to remove it.  That is the only way that the Iranian people will see any future democratic system as being genuine or meaning something, and it is the only way that they will be able to retain dignity throughout and after the process, as well; because it will mean that they will have cleaned up their own mess, which is an essential part of being an adult.</p><p>Just stop interfering.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they 're puppets of foreign powers .
( Mod this down again , if you want ; I 'm going to keep making this argument until someone finally has the spine to actually respond to me ) The only problem with this is , that 's fairly likely exactly what the reform movement genuinely is .
Is anyone honestly going to try and tell me with a straight face that the reform movement would not have CIA agents within its ' ranks ? Truthfully , if I 'd been the leader of the Chinese government at the time of Tienanmen Square , the first thing I would have done would be to broadcast a message announcing that if all of the American intelligence people were to come forward out of the crowd and give themselves up , none of the actual university students would be harmed.This is the single main reason why this entire issue ( Iran , currently ) is pissing me off to the degree that it is.Americans want to get involved purely because they still view their role as being to solve the political and/or moral problems of everyone else on the planet .
The only problem is that George W. Bush eloquently proved ( even if none of your earlier leaders did ) that you do n't have the ability to solve your own problems .
A tyrant and a murderer held office as the President for eight years , and virtually none of you did anything to challenge him.Because of this , any desire you might have to be involved with the current turmoil in Iraq has exactly zero moral credibility .
You let a tyrant hold office in your own country , but you still think that you have a moral imperative to help remove tyrants from other people 's.You are not rightfully the planet 's police force , Americans .
The only reason why any of you think that , is because you 've been brainwashed to think it by your country 's education system .
I 'm aware , however , that nobody who is capable of truly rational thought will respond to that statement , since nobody who is capable of rational thought actually believes in the exceptionalist global police idea.The current regime in Iran might well genuinely need to be removed , but if you want to truly do the right thing where another country is concerned , for once , then back off and let the Iranian people figure out how to do that for themselves .
Do n't get involved , because apart from anything else , you are not on record as having intervened in a single foreign country , ( except , maybe , during WW2 ) where it actually worked out well , for either you , or the other country involved .
Vietnam was a mess , and Iraq largely has been both times .
Do you really think Iran wo n't be ? Let the Iranian people sort it out .
Do n't sell them arms , do n't try and escalate things either way , and pull your damn spooks out if they are there .
( And of course , they would be at this point , even if they were n't earlier ) Any new government , in order for it to be legitimate , will have to be something that the Iranian people have devised for themselves , and if there is a tyranny that needs to be removed , Iranian blood needs to be shed to remove it .
That is the only way that the Iranian people will see any future democratic system as being genuine or meaning something , and it is the only way that they will be able to retain dignity throughout and after the process , as well ; because it will mean that they will have cleaned up their own mess , which is an essential part of being an adult.Just stop interfering .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they're puppets of foreign powers.
(Mod this down again, if you want; I'm going to keep making this argument until someone finally has the spine to actually respond to me)The only problem with this is, that's fairly likely exactly what the reform movement genuinely is.
Is anyone honestly going to try and tell me with a straight face that the reform movement would not have CIA agents within its' ranks?Truthfully, if I'd been the leader of the Chinese government at the time of Tienanmen Square, the first thing I would have done would be to broadcast a message announcing that if all of the American intelligence people were to come forward out of the crowd and give themselves up, none of the actual university students would be harmed.This is the single main reason why this entire issue (Iran, currently) is pissing me off to the degree that it is.Americans want to get involved purely because they still view their role as being to solve the political and/or moral problems of everyone else on the planet.
The only problem is that George W. Bush eloquently proved (even if none of your earlier leaders did) that you don't have the ability to solve your own problems.
A tyrant and a murderer held office as the President for eight years, and virtually none of you did anything to challenge him.Because of this, any desire you might have to be involved with the current turmoil in Iraq has exactly zero moral credibility.
You let a tyrant hold office in your own country, but you still think that you have a moral imperative to help remove tyrants from other people's.You are not rightfully the planet's police force, Americans.
The only reason why any of you think that, is because you've been brainwashed to think it by your country's education system.
I'm aware, however, that nobody who is capable of truly rational thought will respond to that statement, since nobody who is capable of rational thought actually believes in the exceptionalist global police idea.The current regime in Iran might well genuinely need to be removed, but if you want to truly do the right thing where another country is concerned, for once, then back off and let the Iranian people figure out how to do that for themselves.
Don't get involved, because apart from anything else, you are not on record as having intervened in a single foreign country, (except, maybe, during WW2) where it actually worked out well, for either you, or the other country involved.
Vietnam was a mess, and Iraq largely has been both times.
Do you really think Iran won't be?Let the Iranian people sort it out.
Don't sell them arms, don't try and escalate things either way, and pull your damn spooks out if they are there.
(And of course, they would be at this point, even if they weren't earlier)Any new government, in order for it to be legitimate, will have to be something that the Iranian people have devised for themselves, and if there is a tyranny that needs to be removed, Iranian blood needs to be shed to remove it.
That is the only way that the Iranian people will see any future democratic system as being genuine or meaning something, and it is the only way that they will be able to retain dignity throughout and after the process, as well; because it will mean that they will have cleaned up their own mess, which is an essential part of being an adult.Just stop interfering.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28428191</id>
	<title>Re:Exactly what I was thinking</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1245662880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I fear that your version of history isn't all that accurate.  Among other things, our government chose to sit on the sidelines, and wait for Pearl Harbor to be bombed, knowing full well that was one sure way to get America involved in WW2.  We had the intelligence in plenty of time to mount an effective defense at Pearl Harbor, but everyone from the CinC down to the Pentagon prevented that intel being transmitted to the people who could have defended the harbor.</p><p>The fraudulent attacks in Vietnam that persuaded Congress to get involved there was fabricated by the CIA, primarily for the benefit of corporate interests.  DuPont among others needed to protect their interests in the rubber plantations.  The US really had no genuine interest in "defending" South Vietnam.  All the American lives lost in VietNam were lost for the financial gain of some very rich bastids.</p><p>For the most part, I have to agree with the GP that when we muck around in local politics anywhere in the world, we make a mess of things.  As for our rescue of Europe in WW2 - well - a lot of people have different views of that.  Yeah, we did a lot, and sacrificed a lot.  But, if the news of what was really happening in Germany had been broadcast to the American people, I'm pretty sure we would have been involved a lot earlier, and the war would have been won a lot sooner, with less sacrifice on everyone's part.  Funny how the media influenced that war.  It wasn't until late in the war that Americans started learning about such things as concentration camps.  Take away the anti-semitism rampant in the Nazi government, and we really didn't have a lot of grevience with Germany.....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I fear that your version of history is n't all that accurate .
Among other things , our government chose to sit on the sidelines , and wait for Pearl Harbor to be bombed , knowing full well that was one sure way to get America involved in WW2 .
We had the intelligence in plenty of time to mount an effective defense at Pearl Harbor , but everyone from the CinC down to the Pentagon prevented that intel being transmitted to the people who could have defended the harbor.The fraudulent attacks in Vietnam that persuaded Congress to get involved there was fabricated by the CIA , primarily for the benefit of corporate interests .
DuPont among others needed to protect their interests in the rubber plantations .
The US really had no genuine interest in " defending " South Vietnam .
All the American lives lost in VietNam were lost for the financial gain of some very rich bastids.For the most part , I have to agree with the GP that when we muck around in local politics anywhere in the world , we make a mess of things .
As for our rescue of Europe in WW2 - well - a lot of people have different views of that .
Yeah , we did a lot , and sacrificed a lot .
But , if the news of what was really happening in Germany had been broadcast to the American people , I 'm pretty sure we would have been involved a lot earlier , and the war would have been won a lot sooner , with less sacrifice on everyone 's part .
Funny how the media influenced that war .
It was n't until late in the war that Americans started learning about such things as concentration camps .
Take away the anti-semitism rampant in the Nazi government , and we really did n't have a lot of grevience with Germany.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I fear that your version of history isn't all that accurate.
Among other things, our government chose to sit on the sidelines, and wait for Pearl Harbor to be bombed, knowing full well that was one sure way to get America involved in WW2.
We had the intelligence in plenty of time to mount an effective defense at Pearl Harbor, but everyone from the CinC down to the Pentagon prevented that intel being transmitted to the people who could have defended the harbor.The fraudulent attacks in Vietnam that persuaded Congress to get involved there was fabricated by the CIA, primarily for the benefit of corporate interests.
DuPont among others needed to protect their interests in the rubber plantations.
The US really had no genuine interest in "defending" South Vietnam.
All the American lives lost in VietNam were lost for the financial gain of some very rich bastids.For the most part, I have to agree with the GP that when we muck around in local politics anywhere in the world, we make a mess of things.
As for our rescue of Europe in WW2 - well - a lot of people have different views of that.
Yeah, we did a lot, and sacrificed a lot.
But, if the news of what was really happening in Germany had been broadcast to the American people, I'm pretty sure we would have been involved a lot earlier, and the war would have been won a lot sooner, with less sacrifice on everyone's part.
Funny how the media influenced that war.
It wasn't until late in the war that Americans started learning about such things as concentration camps.
Take away the anti-semitism rampant in the Nazi government, and we really didn't have a lot of grevience with Germany.....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28426161</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422577</id>
	<title>Re:hey</title>
	<author>Minwee</author>
	<datestamp>1245686880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>either you agree with me, or you are obviously evil. What better argument could you want?</p></div></blockquote><p>It's good to see that you finally understand how to debate on Slashdot.
</p><p>Now, here's a pop quiz.  If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM, Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft...  Who would you cheer for?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>either you agree with me , or you are obviously evil .
What better argument could you want ? It 's good to see that you finally understand how to debate on Slashdot .
Now , here 's a pop quiz .
If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM , Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft... Who would you cheer for ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>either you agree with me, or you are obviously evil.
What better argument could you want?It's good to see that you finally understand how to debate on Slashdot.
Now, here's a pop quiz.
If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM, Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft...  Who would you cheer for?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422137</id>
	<title>But not the Republicans in the USA.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They did not learn the lesson that the last President Bush learned the hard way when he supported the coup in Venezuela before it was a done deal. After he said the coup was a good thing, Chavez used that to demonize Bush and the USA as a whole as (lets all say it together) "The Great Satan". <br>Now they want to do the same thing at the wrong time. Stupid, stupid, stupid.  Let it play out even though it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They did not learn the lesson that the last President Bush learned the hard way when he supported the coup in Venezuela before it was a done deal .
After he said the coup was a good thing , Chavez used that to demonize Bush and the USA as a whole as ( lets all say it together ) " The Great Satan " .
Now they want to do the same thing at the wrong time .
Stupid , stupid , stupid .
Let it play out even though it 's like watching a train wreck in slow motion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They did not learn the lesson that the last President Bush learned the hard way when he supported the coup in Venezuela before it was a done deal.
After he said the coup was a good thing, Chavez used that to demonize Bush and the USA as a whole as (lets all say it together) "The Great Satan".
Now they want to do the same thing at the wrong time.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Let it play out even though it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422651</id>
	<title>How do we know?</title>
	<author>drDugan</author>
	<datestamp>1245687060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Frankly I think most observers have extremely little information about what is real and reliable half way around the world.</p><p>The most reliable things I've seen so far are the large events, and the events reported independently in a similar way by several different sources: there was an election, it has led to unrest.  One group in power is now in rising conflict with another group that wants power.  Several people have died.  Really beyond that, assertions of any particular thing day-to-day are pretty unreliable for me, and I've been reading and following this pretty closely.</p><p>As to whether a foreign power is involved, I think that is an extremely difficult question to answer as a remote consumer of "news" and Internet reports.  Any group or nation powerful enough to be involved inside Iran now would have as a prerequisite the ability to control tightly the access and dissemination of information internally and the stories released to the public, plus would probably have a desire for secrecy regarding their involvement.</p><p>Given recent history of multiple invasions in the region, the high value of resources in the region, plus historical precedent for outside regime support (specifically in Iran) - on what basis of reliable fact does one base the conclusion of foreign involvement or non involvement in the current demonstrations and issues in Iran?  What do you consider to be the most reliable sources in the current fog of conflict and disinformation?  Twitter?  Some random Blogger?  CNN?  Your government?  People you know personally?</p><p>My only point is this: Even if there were outside groups directly influencing events, how would people know about it?  I don't think they would.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Frankly I think most observers have extremely little information about what is real and reliable half way around the world.The most reliable things I 've seen so far are the large events , and the events reported independently in a similar way by several different sources : there was an election , it has led to unrest .
One group in power is now in rising conflict with another group that wants power .
Several people have died .
Really beyond that , assertions of any particular thing day-to-day are pretty unreliable for me , and I 've been reading and following this pretty closely.As to whether a foreign power is involved , I think that is an extremely difficult question to answer as a remote consumer of " news " and Internet reports .
Any group or nation powerful enough to be involved inside Iran now would have as a prerequisite the ability to control tightly the access and dissemination of information internally and the stories released to the public , plus would probably have a desire for secrecy regarding their involvement.Given recent history of multiple invasions in the region , the high value of resources in the region , plus historical precedent for outside regime support ( specifically in Iran ) - on what basis of reliable fact does one base the conclusion of foreign involvement or non involvement in the current demonstrations and issues in Iran ?
What do you consider to be the most reliable sources in the current fog of conflict and disinformation ?
Twitter ? Some random Blogger ?
CNN ? Your government ?
People you know personally ? My only point is this : Even if there were outside groups directly influencing events , how would people know about it ?
I do n't think they would .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Frankly I think most observers have extremely little information about what is real and reliable half way around the world.The most reliable things I've seen so far are the large events, and the events reported independently in a similar way by several different sources: there was an election, it has led to unrest.
One group in power is now in rising conflict with another group that wants power.
Several people have died.
Really beyond that, assertions of any particular thing day-to-day are pretty unreliable for me, and I've been reading and following this pretty closely.As to whether a foreign power is involved, I think that is an extremely difficult question to answer as a remote consumer of "news" and Internet reports.
Any group or nation powerful enough to be involved inside Iran now would have as a prerequisite the ability to control tightly the access and dissemination of information internally and the stories released to the public, plus would probably have a desire for secrecy regarding their involvement.Given recent history of multiple invasions in the region, the high value of resources in the region, plus historical precedent for outside regime support (specifically in Iran) - on what basis of reliable fact does one base the conclusion of foreign involvement or non involvement in the current demonstrations and issues in Iran?
What do you consider to be the most reliable sources in the current fog of conflict and disinformation?
Twitter?  Some random Blogger?
CNN?  Your government?
People you know personally?My only point is this: Even if there were outside groups directly influencing events, how would people know about it?
I don't think they would.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28429163</id>
	<title>Re:Foreign Influence in Iran Protests is Real</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1245666060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What many of you also fail to understand is that while Musavi is less fundamentalist than Ahmadinejad, his views are hardly one of support for "human rights" and free society. It is sorta like the difference between Republicans and Democrats - a few differences on paper but little substantial difference.</p></div><p>The substantial difference is that one guy is elected by the people (and generally by those who tend to be in favor of liberal reforms), and another is puppet of mullahs. Which one takes power defines who we will be dealing with diplomatically in the years to come - the Iranian people themselves (who may well and truly dislike us, but there's always a path to reconciliation, if we're willing to compromise), or the self-appointed religious theocrats whose only hope to stay in power is to keep the crowds busy chanting "Death to America".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What many of you also fail to understand is that while Musavi is less fundamentalist than Ahmadinejad , his views are hardly one of support for " human rights " and free society .
It is sorta like the difference between Republicans and Democrats - a few differences on paper but little substantial difference.The substantial difference is that one guy is elected by the people ( and generally by those who tend to be in favor of liberal reforms ) , and another is puppet of mullahs .
Which one takes power defines who we will be dealing with diplomatically in the years to come - the Iranian people themselves ( who may well and truly dislike us , but there 's always a path to reconciliation , if we 're willing to compromise ) , or the self-appointed religious theocrats whose only hope to stay in power is to keep the crowds busy chanting " Death to America " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What many of you also fail to understand is that while Musavi is less fundamentalist than Ahmadinejad, his views are hardly one of support for "human rights" and free society.
It is sorta like the difference between Republicans and Democrats - a few differences on paper but little substantial difference.The substantial difference is that one guy is elected by the people (and generally by those who tend to be in favor of liberal reforms), and another is puppet of mullahs.
Which one takes power defines who we will be dealing with diplomatically in the years to come - the Iranian people themselves (who may well and truly dislike us, but there's always a path to reconciliation, if we're willing to compromise), or the self-appointed religious theocrats whose only hope to stay in power is to keep the crowds busy chanting "Death to America".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422787</id>
	<title>Re:Fark has it right</title>
	<author>Bearpaw</author>
	<datestamp>1245687600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They are taking other measures as well; there are several reports that a speech by President Obama (who has yet to speak in support of the protesters)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p> </div><p>Well, yes and no.  He <em>has</em> spoken in support of the protestors speaking out, while being careful not to publically agree with what they're saying.</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... was translated as a speech calling for revolution and the overthrow of the regime. This lets Iran claim that the protests are the result of meddling by the Western powers.</p></div><p>This is why Obama has tried to be very careful about what he says.  Given that there is a history of meddling by the US (and others), anything he says is going to be seen through that filter.  People calling for stronger statements by Obama seem to be unaware of that history<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... or are pretending to be.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They are taking other measures as well ; there are several reports that a speech by President Obama ( who has yet to speak in support of the protesters ) ... Well , yes and no .
He has spoken in support of the protestors speaking out , while being careful not to publically agree with what they 're saying .
... was translated as a speech calling for revolution and the overthrow of the regime .
This lets Iran claim that the protests are the result of meddling by the Western powers.This is why Obama has tried to be very careful about what he says .
Given that there is a history of meddling by the US ( and others ) , anything he says is going to be seen through that filter .
People calling for stronger statements by Obama seem to be unaware of that history ... or are pretending to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are taking other measures as well; there are several reports that a speech by President Obama (who has yet to speak in support of the protesters) ... Well, yes and no.
He has spoken in support of the protestors speaking out, while being careful not to publically agree with what they're saying.
... was translated as a speech calling for revolution and the overthrow of the regime.
This lets Iran claim that the protests are the result of meddling by the Western powers.This is why Obama has tried to be very careful about what he says.
Given that there is a history of meddling by the US (and others), anything he says is going to be seen through that filter.
People calling for stronger statements by Obama seem to be unaware of that history ... or are pretending to be.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28433247</id>
	<title>Re:Foreign Influence in Iran Protests is Real</title>
	<author>phorm</author>
	<datestamp>1245682620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Basically from what I can understand, this is fairly common, and nothing new from the US.  If you look into various other major issues such as Tienneman square, there's external factors involved in pushing these "revolts" against the local government. Whatever the intentions, those powers have blood on their hands yet use either result (people overthrow government or government kills protectors) to fuel their agenda in the media.</p><p>It's also part of why various countries get pretty pissed off about the US involvement in their affairs. Whatever the outcome might be, is it legitimate for the US to push the people into becoming pawns against their own government to further a foreign agenda (even if it furthers the citizens' agenda at the same time). Pretty sad to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Basically from what I can understand , this is fairly common , and nothing new from the US .
If you look into various other major issues such as Tienneman square , there 's external factors involved in pushing these " revolts " against the local government .
Whatever the intentions , those powers have blood on their hands yet use either result ( people overthrow government or government kills protectors ) to fuel their agenda in the media.It 's also part of why various countries get pretty pissed off about the US involvement in their affairs .
Whatever the outcome might be , is it legitimate for the US to push the people into becoming pawns against their own government to further a foreign agenda ( even if it furthers the citizens ' agenda at the same time ) .
Pretty sad to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basically from what I can understand, this is fairly common, and nothing new from the US.
If you look into various other major issues such as Tienneman square, there's external factors involved in pushing these "revolts" against the local government.
Whatever the intentions, those powers have blood on their hands yet use either result (people overthrow government or government kills protectors) to fuel their agenda in the media.It's also part of why various countries get pretty pissed off about the US involvement in their affairs.
Whatever the outcome might be, is it legitimate for the US to push the people into becoming pawns against their own government to further a foreign agenda (even if it furthers the citizens' agenda at the same time).
Pretty sad to me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422821</id>
	<title>Re:hey</title>
	<author>Bearpaw</author>
	<datestamp>1245687720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The only way you can disagree with me is if you are under the influence of the Great Satan. So either you agree with me, or you are obviously evil. What better argument could you want?</p></div><p>Huh.  Why does that argument sound vaguely familiar?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only way you can disagree with me is if you are under the influence of the Great Satan .
So either you agree with me , or you are obviously evil .
What better argument could you want ? Huh .
Why does that argument sound vaguely familiar ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only way you can disagree with me is if you are under the influence of the Great Satan.
So either you agree with me, or you are obviously evil.
What better argument could you want?Huh.
Why does that argument sound vaguely familiar?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28427915</id>
	<title>Buttwipes</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1245661800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see you've been modded down as a troll.  Personally, I disagree with you, and I'll explain my disagreement.  Obviously, those who modded you are incapable of doing so.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)<br>\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_</p><p>Is the uprising instigated by the CIA?  TBH, the CIA may or may not have something to do with it, but I can't see that they have the manpower, the influence, or the ability to muster hundreds of thousands of protesters.  Keep in mind, precious few people in Iran have any reason to trust the CIA.  I assume that you are familiar with Operation Ajax - if not, look it up.  The average guy in Iran probably has a sentiment like "Burn me once, shame on you.  Burn me twice, shame on me!"</p><p>The obverse view of those same facts, are, the government is well aware that the CIA overthrew an Iranian government 50 years ago.  It's simply wonderful, from their point of view, to have such a handy boogey-man.  "Hey, world, look at this!  The CIA overthrew our government once, and they are trying again!"  True or not, the supreme leader is going to try to convince the world that it's just the CIA up to it's old tricks again.</p><p>Now, I'm not going to try to convince you, or anyone, that I'm familiar with Iranian politics, or even it's people.  I've poured Iranian (and Iraqi) sand out of my boots, but that doesn't make me expert at anything other than pouring sand out of my boots.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)  But, I'm convinced that there really are two almost distinct populations in Iran.  Stratfor.com publishes a lot of info, and I posted one of their newsletters in another thread on slashdot.  City people, young people, businessmen who deal with the west, students, and educated females make up one group.  These people see the benefits of western society, western industry, and some of our western values.</p><p>Country people, the poor, the uneducated (that is not to say "unintelligent") and the devoutly religious traditional Moslems question the wisdom of adopting western ways.  Keep in mind, that portion of the population has been catered to by Ahmadinejad.  A lot of wealth has been redistributed in Iran, almost all of it for the benefit of this second population.</p><p>While I don't see the Supreme Leader as being above tampering with the election results, I can see how, and why, his chosen boy may have legitimately won the election.  IMHO, Ahmadiejab is probably the legitimate president.  He may, or may not be, but my opinion is, yes.  All the analysts who say differently have no evidence whatsoever, just speculation based on silly shit like numerology.</p><p>That out of the way - I think that the progressives are being stupid.  Whether the election was rigged or not, they've staged a showdown in which the powers that be have lost face.  They can't win the showdown, and they will be punished.  They are going to lose strength, that they might have hoarded for the NEXT election.  One simply doesn't squander their strength in battles that can't be won.</p><p>Whatever, I agree 100\% with your statement, "Let the Iranian people sort it out. Don't sell them arms, don't try and escalate things either way, and pull your damn spooks out if they are there."</p><p>We are all to ready to jump in whenever things aren't going the way we would like it to.  I would LIKE to see Iran made "free" of what I consider an oppressive regime.  But, hey, if the majority of Iranians don't see it as oppressive, that's their business.  What is the alternative?  Invade, depose the regime, and set up a government that I approve of?  Hell, THAT would be oppression!!  In effect, because I disapprove on one oppressor, I become an oppressor myself.  Duhh, hypocricy and idiocy combined, huh?</p><p>Well, you've been responded to, anyway.  And, screw the mods - half of them are probably pimple faced teenage geeks living in their Mama's basement, and have never met a single Iranian in their lives.  Miserable little creatures.......</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see you 've been modded down as a troll .
Personally , I disagree with you , and I 'll explain my disagreement .
Obviously , those who modded you are incapable of doing so .
; ) \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _Is the uprising instigated by the CIA ?
TBH , the CIA may or may not have something to do with it , but I ca n't see that they have the manpower , the influence , or the ability to muster hundreds of thousands of protesters .
Keep in mind , precious few people in Iran have any reason to trust the CIA .
I assume that you are familiar with Operation Ajax - if not , look it up .
The average guy in Iran probably has a sentiment like " Burn me once , shame on you .
Burn me twice , shame on me !
" The obverse view of those same facts , are , the government is well aware that the CIA overthrew an Iranian government 50 years ago .
It 's simply wonderful , from their point of view , to have such a handy boogey-man .
" Hey , world , look at this !
The CIA overthrew our government once , and they are trying again !
" True or not , the supreme leader is going to try to convince the world that it 's just the CIA up to it 's old tricks again.Now , I 'm not going to try to convince you , or anyone , that I 'm familiar with Iranian politics , or even it 's people .
I 've poured Iranian ( and Iraqi ) sand out of my boots , but that does n't make me expert at anything other than pouring sand out of my boots .
; ) But , I 'm convinced that there really are two almost distinct populations in Iran .
Stratfor.com publishes a lot of info , and I posted one of their newsletters in another thread on slashdot .
City people , young people , businessmen who deal with the west , students , and educated females make up one group .
These people see the benefits of western society , western industry , and some of our western values.Country people , the poor , the uneducated ( that is not to say " unintelligent " ) and the devoutly religious traditional Moslems question the wisdom of adopting western ways .
Keep in mind , that portion of the population has been catered to by Ahmadinejad .
A lot of wealth has been redistributed in Iran , almost all of it for the benefit of this second population.While I do n't see the Supreme Leader as being above tampering with the election results , I can see how , and why , his chosen boy may have legitimately won the election .
IMHO , Ahmadiejab is probably the legitimate president .
He may , or may not be , but my opinion is , yes .
All the analysts who say differently have no evidence whatsoever , just speculation based on silly shit like numerology.That out of the way - I think that the progressives are being stupid .
Whether the election was rigged or not , they 've staged a showdown in which the powers that be have lost face .
They ca n't win the showdown , and they will be punished .
They are going to lose strength , that they might have hoarded for the NEXT election .
One simply does n't squander their strength in battles that ca n't be won.Whatever , I agree 100 \ % with your statement , " Let the Iranian people sort it out .
Do n't sell them arms , do n't try and escalate things either way , and pull your damn spooks out if they are there .
" We are all to ready to jump in whenever things are n't going the way we would like it to .
I would LIKE to see Iran made " free " of what I consider an oppressive regime .
But , hey , if the majority of Iranians do n't see it as oppressive , that 's their business .
What is the alternative ?
Invade , depose the regime , and set up a government that I approve of ?
Hell , THAT would be oppression ! !
In effect , because I disapprove on one oppressor , I become an oppressor myself .
Duhh , hypocricy and idiocy combined , huh ? Well , you 've been responded to , anyway .
And , screw the mods - half of them are probably pimple faced teenage geeks living in their Mama 's basement , and have never met a single Iranian in their lives .
Miserable little creatures...... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see you've been modded down as a troll.
Personally, I disagree with you, and I'll explain my disagreement.
Obviously, those who modded you are incapable of doing so.
;)\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_Is the uprising instigated by the CIA?
TBH, the CIA may or may not have something to do with it, but I can't see that they have the manpower, the influence, or the ability to muster hundreds of thousands of protesters.
Keep in mind, precious few people in Iran have any reason to trust the CIA.
I assume that you are familiar with Operation Ajax - if not, look it up.
The average guy in Iran probably has a sentiment like "Burn me once, shame on you.
Burn me twice, shame on me!
"The obverse view of those same facts, are, the government is well aware that the CIA overthrew an Iranian government 50 years ago.
It's simply wonderful, from their point of view, to have such a handy boogey-man.
"Hey, world, look at this!
The CIA overthrew our government once, and they are trying again!
"  True or not, the supreme leader is going to try to convince the world that it's just the CIA up to it's old tricks again.Now, I'm not going to try to convince you, or anyone, that I'm familiar with Iranian politics, or even it's people.
I've poured Iranian (and Iraqi) sand out of my boots, but that doesn't make me expert at anything other than pouring sand out of my boots.
;)  But, I'm convinced that there really are two almost distinct populations in Iran.
Stratfor.com publishes a lot of info, and I posted one of their newsletters in another thread on slashdot.
City people, young people, businessmen who deal with the west, students, and educated females make up one group.
These people see the benefits of western society, western industry, and some of our western values.Country people, the poor, the uneducated (that is not to say "unintelligent") and the devoutly religious traditional Moslems question the wisdom of adopting western ways.
Keep in mind, that portion of the population has been catered to by Ahmadinejad.
A lot of wealth has been redistributed in Iran, almost all of it for the benefit of this second population.While I don't see the Supreme Leader as being above tampering with the election results, I can see how, and why, his chosen boy may have legitimately won the election.
IMHO, Ahmadiejab is probably the legitimate president.
He may, or may not be, but my opinion is, yes.
All the analysts who say differently have no evidence whatsoever, just speculation based on silly shit like numerology.That out of the way - I think that the progressives are being stupid.
Whether the election was rigged or not, they've staged a showdown in which the powers that be have lost face.
They can't win the showdown, and they will be punished.
They are going to lose strength, that they might have hoarded for the NEXT election.
One simply doesn't squander their strength in battles that can't be won.Whatever, I agree 100\% with your statement, "Let the Iranian people sort it out.
Don't sell them arms, don't try and escalate things either way, and pull your damn spooks out if they are there.
"We are all to ready to jump in whenever things aren't going the way we would like it to.
I would LIKE to see Iran made "free" of what I consider an oppressive regime.
But, hey, if the majority of Iranians don't see it as oppressive, that's their business.
What is the alternative?
Invade, depose the regime, and set up a government that I approve of?
Hell, THAT would be oppression!!
In effect, because I disapprove on one oppressor, I become an oppressor myself.
Duhh, hypocricy and idiocy combined, huh?Well, you've been responded to, anyway.
And, screw the mods - half of them are probably pimple faced teenage geeks living in their Mama's basement, and have never met a single Iranian in their lives.
Miserable little creatures.......</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423909</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422763</id>
	<title>why do you think that even compares?</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1245687540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>scale</p><p>perspective</p><p>context</p><p>these are some wacky concepts. try using some of them next time when you compare:</p><p>1. cops putting rnc and dnc marginal characters with marginal concerns behind fences</p><p>vs</p><p>2. the sheer scale of the popular uprising in iran<br>3. what is at stake: the very heart of iranian society (as opposed to nothing more than the ability to disrupt a party convention by outsiders with grudge fringe issues that don't have popular support)<br>4. the modus operandi: sueable, accountable urban cops restraining people with nonlethal force, versus shady government unaccountable thugs and militia, the basij, unleashed on peaceful protesters</p><p>its completely out of scale, out of context, and out of perspective the way in which you are trying to compare these two events. at best, you qualify as a weak threadjack</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>scaleperspectivecontextthese are some wacky concepts .
try using some of them next time when you compare : 1. cops putting rnc and dnc marginal characters with marginal concerns behind fencesvs2 .
the sheer scale of the popular uprising in iran3 .
what is at stake : the very heart of iranian society ( as opposed to nothing more than the ability to disrupt a party convention by outsiders with grudge fringe issues that do n't have popular support ) 4. the modus operandi : sueable , accountable urban cops restraining people with nonlethal force , versus shady government unaccountable thugs and militia , the basij , unleashed on peaceful protestersits completely out of scale , out of context , and out of perspective the way in which you are trying to compare these two events .
at best , you qualify as a weak threadjack</tokentext>
<sentencetext>scaleperspectivecontextthese are some wacky concepts.
try using some of them next time when you compare:1. cops putting rnc and dnc marginal characters with marginal concerns behind fencesvs2.
the sheer scale of the popular uprising in iran3.
what is at stake: the very heart of iranian society (as opposed to nothing more than the ability to disrupt a party convention by outsiders with grudge fringe issues that don't have popular support)4. the modus operandi: sueable, accountable urban cops restraining people with nonlethal force, versus shady government unaccountable thugs and militia, the basij, unleashed on peaceful protestersits completely out of scale, out of context, and out of perspective the way in which you are trying to compare these two events.
at best, you qualify as a weak threadjack</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422405</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28500325</id>
	<title>Re:How do we know?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246118460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One person who probably has a pretty reliable picture of what's going on (or could get it if he wanted to) is the president of the United States.  And he's come down explicitly (if timidly) on the side of the ruling regime in Iran.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One person who probably has a pretty reliable picture of what 's going on ( or could get it if he wanted to ) is the president of the United States .
And he 's come down explicitly ( if timidly ) on the side of the ruling regime in Iran .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One person who probably has a pretty reliable picture of what's going on (or could get it if he wanted to) is the president of the United States.
And he's come down explicitly (if timidly) on the side of the ruling regime in Iran.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422651</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422835</id>
	<title>Dear Arresting Officers: +1, Informative</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245687720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please arrest <a href="http://www.billoreilly.com/" title="billoreilly.com" rel="nofollow">Bill O'Reilly</a> [billoreilly.com].  He is an enemy of democracy.</p><p>Yours In Journalism,<br>Kilgore Trout</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please arrest Bill O'Reilly [ billoreilly.com ] .
He is an enemy of democracy.Yours In Journalism,Kilgore Trout</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please arrest Bill O'Reilly [billoreilly.com].
He is an enemy of democracy.Yours In Journalism,Kilgore Trout</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422077</id>
	<title>But should we believe that.... ?</title>
	<author>ls671</author>
	<datestamp>1245685260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; "One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they're puppets of foreign powers, so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people."</p><p>I agree with this idea but should we think that foreign intelligence agents in Iran are currently seriously told to stay put and do nothing ?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-))</p><p>Or even believe that there is no foreign intelligence agents in Iran ?</p><p>There definitely seems to be a momentum from the people of Iran taking place although, pendulum effect at work again ?</p><p><a href="http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1273015&amp;cid=28384711&amp;art\_pos=8" title="slashdot.org">http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1273015&amp;cid=28384711&amp;art\_pos=8</a> [slashdot.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; " One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they 're puppets of foreign powers , so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people .
" I agree with this idea but should we think that foreign intelligence agents in Iran are currently seriously told to stay put and do nothing ?
; - ) ) Or even believe that there is no foreign intelligence agents in Iran ? There definitely seems to be a momentum from the people of Iran taking place although , pendulum effect at work again ? http : //slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 1273015&amp;cid = 28384711&amp;art \ _pos = 8 [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; "One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they're puppets of foreign powers, so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people.
"I agree with this idea but should we think that foreign intelligence agents in Iran are currently seriously told to stay put and do nothing ?
;-))Or even believe that there is no foreign intelligence agents in Iran ?There definitely seems to be a momentum from the people of Iran taking place although, pendulum effect at work again ?http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1273015&amp;cid=28384711&amp;art\_pos=8 [slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422189</id>
	<title>What does it take to topple regime?</title>
	<author>javacowboy</author>
	<datestamp>1245685680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not asking a rhetorical question.  I'm genuinely curious about what the historical precedent is for regimes to be overthrown since it doesn't seem to happen.</p><p>My Russian friend used the colloquialism "every country is three meals away from a revolution" to describe the threshold for revolution, to make the case that nobody missed three meals during the Great Depression but did before the Russian Revolution.</p><p>I also read Robert Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" in which Heinlein asserted that revolutions are never started or run by ordinary people, but by well organized political factions.</p><p>There's also 1984, in which Orwell points out that revolutions always involve the middle class, and the proletariat never drives revolutions.</p><p>There's also the wild card of alleged CIA involvement, which was behind the Orange (Ukraine) and Rose (Georgia) revolutions.</p><p>All of these tidbits of information aren't helping me to predict the outcome of the latest situation in Iran.   What's driving the protests other than the election results?   Will the revolutionaries succeed?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not asking a rhetorical question .
I 'm genuinely curious about what the historical precedent is for regimes to be overthrown since it does n't seem to happen.My Russian friend used the colloquialism " every country is three meals away from a revolution " to describe the threshold for revolution , to make the case that nobody missed three meals during the Great Depression but did before the Russian Revolution.I also read Robert Heinlein 's " The Moon is a Harsh Mistress " in which Heinlein asserted that revolutions are never started or run by ordinary people , but by well organized political factions.There 's also 1984 , in which Orwell points out that revolutions always involve the middle class , and the proletariat never drives revolutions.There 's also the wild card of alleged CIA involvement , which was behind the Orange ( Ukraine ) and Rose ( Georgia ) revolutions.All of these tidbits of information are n't helping me to predict the outcome of the latest situation in Iran .
What 's driving the protests other than the election results ?
Will the revolutionaries succeed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not asking a rhetorical question.
I'm genuinely curious about what the historical precedent is for regimes to be overthrown since it doesn't seem to happen.My Russian friend used the colloquialism "every country is three meals away from a revolution" to describe the threshold for revolution, to make the case that nobody missed three meals during the Great Depression but did before the Russian Revolution.I also read Robert Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" in which Heinlein asserted that revolutions are never started or run by ordinary people, but by well organized political factions.There's also 1984, in which Orwell points out that revolutions always involve the middle class, and the proletariat never drives revolutions.There's also the wild card of alleged CIA involvement, which was behind the Orange (Ukraine) and Rose (Georgia) revolutions.All of these tidbits of information aren't helping me to predict the outcome of the latest situation in Iran.
What's driving the protests other than the election results?
Will the revolutionaries succeed?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422151</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This does not confirm that the elections were a farce. It simply confirms that Iran is not a liberal democracy. If the elections were fair and a protest erupted, there would have been a similar clampdown.</p><p>Frankly, I don't know who to believe. The past 30 years of American history has taught me not to take my government's word at face value, and journalism isn't much better. I don't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This does not confirm that the elections were a farce .
It simply confirms that Iran is not a liberal democracy .
If the elections were fair and a protest erupted , there would have been a similar clampdown.Frankly , I do n't know who to believe .
The past 30 years of American history has taught me not to take my government 's word at face value , and journalism is n't much better .
I do n't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This does not confirm that the elections were a farce.
It simply confirms that Iran is not a liberal democracy.
If the elections were fair and a protest erupted, there would have been a similar clampdown.Frankly, I don't know who to believe.
The past 30 years of American history has taught me not to take my government's word at face value, and journalism isn't much better.
I don't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28431837</id>
	<title>One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to.</title>
	<author>Slaytanic213</author>
	<datestamp>1245675900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>"One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that the reformers are puppets of foreign powers, so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people."<p>
Umm, but they are. Don't we all know this already?</p><p>
Brian Ross Report on Covert Operation to Destabilize Iran - Aired 5/24/07<br>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_wg3r2YSM9g" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_wg3r2YSM9g</a> [youtube.com] </p><p>
Also, Iran was on it's way before some oil interests of the US and Britain got in the way.</p><p>
Iran Had a Democracy Before We Took It Away<br>
<a href="http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090622\_iran\_had\_a\_democracy\_before\_we\_took\_it\_away/" title="truthdig.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090622\_iran\_had\_a\_democracy\_before\_we\_took\_it\_away/</a> [truthdig.com] </p><p>
But Americans have an attention span of two weeks.</p><p>
Pitiful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that the reformers are puppets of foreign powers , so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people .
" Umm , but they are .
Do n't we all know this already ?
Brian Ross Report on Covert Operation to Destabilize Iran - Aired 5/24/07 http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = \ _wg3r2YSM9g [ youtube.com ] Also , Iran was on it 's way before some oil interests of the US and Britain got in the way .
Iran Had a Democracy Before We Took It Away http : //www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090622 \ _iran \ _had \ _a \ _democracy \ _before \ _we \ _took \ _it \ _away/ [ truthdig.com ] But Americans have an attention span of two weeks .
Pitiful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that the reformers are puppets of foreign powers, so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people.
"
Umm, but they are.
Don't we all know this already?
Brian Ross Report on Covert Operation to Destabilize Iran - Aired 5/24/07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_wg3r2YSM9g [youtube.com] 
Also, Iran was on it's way before some oil interests of the US and Britain got in the way.
Iran Had a Democracy Before We Took It Away
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090622\_iran\_had\_a\_democracy\_before\_we\_took\_it\_away/ [truthdig.com] 
But Americans have an attention span of two weeks.
Pitiful.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422625</id>
	<title>Bullshit summary</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245687000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalist</i></p><p>The US troops deliberately shelled hotels where journalists were staying during the early phases of  Operation Iragi Liberation - sorry Operation Iraqi Freedom, and deliberately targeted Al Jazeera. Being shelled is a darn sight more dangerous than being arrested.</p><p>Anyway looks like Bush's $400M 2007 destabilisation program is finally publically underway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalistThe US troops deliberately shelled hotels where journalists were staying during the early phases of Operation Iragi Liberation - sorry Operation Iraqi Freedom , and deliberately targeted Al Jazeera .
Being shelled is a darn sight more dangerous than being arrested.Anyway looks like Bush 's $ 400M 2007 destabilisation program is finally publically underway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalistThe US troops deliberately shelled hotels where journalists were staying during the early phases of  Operation Iragi Liberation - sorry Operation Iraqi Freedom, and deliberately targeted Al Jazeera.
Being shelled is a darn sight more dangerous than being arrested.Anyway looks like Bush's $400M 2007 destabilisation program is finally publically underway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423383</id>
	<title>Re:Marg bar Diktator!</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1245689700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They should take an example of the USofA where during 8 years the government could do anything without any serious investigation from the side of the media.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They should take an example of the USofA where during 8 years the government could do anything without any serious investigation from the side of the media .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They should take an example of the USofA where during 8 years the government could do anything without any serious investigation from the side of the media.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422101</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28432221</id>
	<title>Re:hey</title>
	<author>initialE</author>
	<datestamp>1245677640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Put them all in one room? I'm cheering already!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Put them all in one room ?
I 'm cheering already !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put them all in one room?
I'm cheering already!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422345</id>
	<title>Middle East Peace</title>
	<author>MonsterTrimble</author>
	<datestamp>1245686160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see this happening in Iran and even though I think the human suffering during this build up to civil war (and I have no doubt civil war will erupt from this) is immense, I look at the middle east overall and I wonder if Iran having this happen to it wouldn't be the best thing for everyone. With Iran fighting within itself, it doesn't have the focus on Isreal, Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq which has large issues with iran-funded militant groups. The money dries up, leaving the groups to fend for themselves, which they would find extremely difficult.</p><p>I personally hope that at the end of this there is a more 'west friendly' regime. It seems from all accounts that most of Iran's youth are wholeheartedly embracing technology and being part of the world stage. The middle east needs an country with an people-elected islamic leader which is willing to embrace the future.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see this happening in Iran and even though I think the human suffering during this build up to civil war ( and I have no doubt civil war will erupt from this ) is immense , I look at the middle east overall and I wonder if Iran having this happen to it would n't be the best thing for everyone .
With Iran fighting within itself , it does n't have the focus on Isreal , Palestine , Lebanon and Iraq which has large issues with iran-funded militant groups .
The money dries up , leaving the groups to fend for themselves , which they would find extremely difficult.I personally hope that at the end of this there is a more 'west friendly ' regime .
It seems from all accounts that most of Iran 's youth are wholeheartedly embracing technology and being part of the world stage .
The middle east needs an country with an people-elected islamic leader which is willing to embrace the future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see this happening in Iran and even though I think the human suffering during this build up to civil war (and I have no doubt civil war will erupt from this) is immense, I look at the middle east overall and I wonder if Iran having this happen to it wouldn't be the best thing for everyone.
With Iran fighting within itself, it doesn't have the focus on Isreal, Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq which has large issues with iran-funded militant groups.
The money dries up, leaving the groups to fend for themselves, which they would find extremely difficult.I personally hope that at the end of this there is a more 'west friendly' regime.
It seems from all accounts that most of Iran's youth are wholeheartedly embracing technology and being part of the world stage.
The middle east needs an country with an people-elected islamic leader which is willing to embrace the future.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28427347</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>murdocj</author>
	<datestamp>1245703320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, we would have been much, much better off having a(nother) civil war rather than using the rule of law to decide who got to be president next.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , we would have been much , much better off having a ( nother ) civil war rather than using the rule of law to decide who got to be president next .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, we would have been much, much better off having a(nother) civil war rather than using the rule of law to decide who got to be president next.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424517</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28429481</id>
	<title>Re:hey</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1245667140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM, Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft... Who would you cheer for?</p></div><p>CowboyNeal. Duh.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM , Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft... Who would you cheer for ? CowboyNeal .
Duh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM, Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft... Who would you cheer for?CowboyNeal.
Duh.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422321</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1245686100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>this just confirms western fears that the elections in Iran were indeed a farce</p></div></blockquote><p>What a curious way to look at it.  Here I was thinking that what the West feared was the result, not the method of arriving at it.

</p><p>If the moderate liberals succeed in seizing power (nobody laugh), will the West fear them as well just because "the elections were a farce"?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>this just confirms western fears that the elections in Iran were indeed a farceWhat a curious way to look at it .
Here I was thinking that what the West feared was the result , not the method of arriving at it .
If the moderate liberals succeed in seizing power ( nobody laugh ) , will the West fear them as well just because " the elections were a farce " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this just confirms western fears that the elections in Iran were indeed a farceWhat a curious way to look at it.
Here I was thinking that what the West feared was the result, not the method of arriving at it.
If the moderate liberals succeed in seizing power (nobody laugh), will the West fear them as well just because "the elections were a farce"?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422649</id>
	<title>you have it backwards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245687060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>no one in iran knows the truth, because there is no free press</p><p>everyone outside iran knows the truth, because there is free access to a free press</p><p>and what in your mind makes you think that the us govt can control the world media?</p><p>well, let's go with your paranoia, and make believe for the moment the us govt really can control the media. not even just american outlets, but even the likes of news.com.au and news.bbc.co.uk: any western media outlet. this is some extreme paranoia to believe that, but let's go with your bizarre pov for a moment</p><p>well then, what's preventing me from going to:</p><p><a href="http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/" title="peopledaily.com.cn" rel="nofollow">http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/</a> [peopledaily.com.cn]</p><p><a href="http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/" title="itar-tass.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/</a> [itar-tass.com]</p><p>is your assertion the us govt can control these news sources?</p><p>but my whole point is right there in those links: the fact that i can even click on those news sources if i choose to, and no one is going to knock on my door for doing that, and no one is blocking my access to official russian or chinese news sources, and i feel no fear in clicking those links, then what the hell does that leave your assertion about who is controlling "the media" or your right to free access to news sources in the usa?</p><p>why the heck do you have the whole notion of a free press and its implications completely ass backwards in your mind?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>no one in iran knows the truth , because there is no free presseveryone outside iran knows the truth , because there is free access to a free pressand what in your mind makes you think that the us govt can control the world media ? well , let 's go with your paranoia , and make believe for the moment the us govt really can control the media .
not even just american outlets , but even the likes of news.com.au and news.bbc.co.uk : any western media outlet .
this is some extreme paranoia to believe that , but let 's go with your bizarre pov for a momentwell then , what 's preventing me from going to : http : //english.peopledaily.com.cn/ [ peopledaily.com.cn ] http : //www.itar-tass.com/eng/ [ itar-tass.com ] is your assertion the us govt can control these news sources ? but my whole point is right there in those links : the fact that i can even click on those news sources if i choose to , and no one is going to knock on my door for doing that , and no one is blocking my access to official russian or chinese news sources , and i feel no fear in clicking those links , then what the hell does that leave your assertion about who is controlling " the media " or your right to free access to news sources in the usa ? why the heck do you have the whole notion of a free press and its implications completely ass backwards in your mind ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no one in iran knows the truth, because there is no free presseveryone outside iran knows the truth, because there is free access to a free pressand what in your mind makes you think that the us govt can control the world media?well, let's go with your paranoia, and make believe for the moment the us govt really can control the media.
not even just american outlets, but even the likes of news.com.au and news.bbc.co.uk: any western media outlet.
this is some extreme paranoia to believe that, but let's go with your bizarre pov for a momentwell then, what's preventing me from going to:http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/ [peopledaily.com.cn]http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/ [itar-tass.com]is your assertion the us govt can control these news sources?but my whole point is right there in those links: the fact that i can even click on those news sources if i choose to, and no one is going to knock on my door for doing that, and no one is blocking my access to official russian or chinese news sources, and i feel no fear in clicking those links, then what the hell does that leave your assertion about who is controlling "the media" or your right to free access to news sources in the usa?why the heck do you have the whole notion of a free press and its implications completely ass backwards in your mind?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422575</id>
	<title>Re:What does it take to topple regime?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245686880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What makes the difference is whether they get the military behind them. Everyone likes to pretend otherwise, but at the end of the day, military power determines the government.</p><p>The situation in Iran is complicated however. There's a regular army, badly equipped, and the an army not under government control, but under direct control of the lead islamic shithead.</p><p>The regular army at least seems to be partly on the side of the protesters, but not yet enough to go against the basiji (the islamic assholes), at least not with bullets. If that happens, the revolution will have a real chance of success. If</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What makes the difference is whether they get the military behind them .
Everyone likes to pretend otherwise , but at the end of the day , military power determines the government.The situation in Iran is complicated however .
There 's a regular army , badly equipped , and the an army not under government control , but under direct control of the lead islamic shithead.The regular army at least seems to be partly on the side of the protesters , but not yet enough to go against the basiji ( the islamic assholes ) , at least not with bullets .
If that happens , the revolution will have a real chance of success .
If</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What makes the difference is whether they get the military behind them.
Everyone likes to pretend otherwise, but at the end of the day, military power determines the government.The situation in Iran is complicated however.
There's a regular army, badly equipped, and the an army not under government control, but under direct control of the lead islamic shithead.The regular army at least seems to be partly on the side of the protesters, but not yet enough to go against the basiji (the islamic assholes), at least not with bullets.
If that happens, the revolution will have a real chance of success.
If</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422189</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422135</id>
	<title>Standing up</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My heart goes out to the Iranian people, but this is something they have to do for themselves.<br>their governement has to learn to respect the people they govern.  as one post i read had stated, "we've traded one dictatorship for another".</p><p>if we in the west get involved there will always be accusations of puppets and strings.<br>the only way for the Iranian people to earn the respect of those that run the country and the other countries of the region is to do this on their own.</p><p>the worst is yet to come, but i wish them all the courage and strength they may need.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My heart goes out to the Iranian people , but this is something they have to do for themselves.their governement has to learn to respect the people they govern .
as one post i read had stated , " we 've traded one dictatorship for another " .if we in the west get involved there will always be accusations of puppets and strings.the only way for the Iranian people to earn the respect of those that run the country and the other countries of the region is to do this on their own.the worst is yet to come , but i wish them all the courage and strength they may need .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My heart goes out to the Iranian people, but this is something they have to do for themselves.their governement has to learn to respect the people they govern.
as one post i read had stated, "we've traded one dictatorship for another".if we in the west get involved there will always be accusations of puppets and strings.the only way for the Iranian people to earn the respect of those that run the country and the other countries of the region is to do this on their own.the worst is yet to come, but i wish them all the courage and strength they may need.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28425009</id>
	<title>Re:dictatorships, cartels, democracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245695220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Precisely, the quality of a leader is best chosen by a wise group of sages; after all, horses do not evaluate each other for speed, that is left to a horse-trainer.</p><p>I see that Iran is modeled after Plato's Republic...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Precisely , the quality of a leader is best chosen by a wise group of sages ; after all , horses do not evaluate each other for speed , that is left to a horse-trainer.I see that Iran is modeled after Plato 's Republic.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Precisely, the quality of a leader is best chosen by a wise group of sages; after all, horses do not evaluate each other for speed, that is left to a horse-trainer.I see that Iran is modeled after Plato's Republic...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422197</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>AKAImBatman</author>
	<datestamp>1245685740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Iranian government was hoping to quietly sweep the issue under the rug. The Guardian Council's statement that they would look into possible election fraud was nothing more than a delay tactic. The Council had hoped that the public would wait for the result quietly. Then when the Council made their determination, the people would have cooled off and the whole matter would be swept under the rug.</p><p>Of course, it didn't work that way. The Iranian public has been getting progressively angrier. These stalling tactics only made them madder. The Ayatollah's proclamation of "divine insight" into the election made them angrier still. Even the blood shed on the street has not discouraged them, but thrown them into a shear rage.</p><p>Now Iran is staring down a full-blown revolution. The police have been told they can use firearms (as if they haven't been using them) and the protesters have been denounced as terrorists.</p><p>A lot of blood is going to be shed in the next few days. And the press just happens to be considered a fair target by the Iranian government.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Iranian government was hoping to quietly sweep the issue under the rug .
The Guardian Council 's statement that they would look into possible election fraud was nothing more than a delay tactic .
The Council had hoped that the public would wait for the result quietly .
Then when the Council made their determination , the people would have cooled off and the whole matter would be swept under the rug.Of course , it did n't work that way .
The Iranian public has been getting progressively angrier .
These stalling tactics only made them madder .
The Ayatollah 's proclamation of " divine insight " into the election made them angrier still .
Even the blood shed on the street has not discouraged them , but thrown them into a shear rage.Now Iran is staring down a full-blown revolution .
The police have been told they can use firearms ( as if they have n't been using them ) and the protesters have been denounced as terrorists.A lot of blood is going to be shed in the next few days .
And the press just happens to be considered a fair target by the Iranian government .
: - (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Iranian government was hoping to quietly sweep the issue under the rug.
The Guardian Council's statement that they would look into possible election fraud was nothing more than a delay tactic.
The Council had hoped that the public would wait for the result quietly.
Then when the Council made their determination, the people would have cooled off and the whole matter would be swept under the rug.Of course, it didn't work that way.
The Iranian public has been getting progressively angrier.
These stalling tactics only made them madder.
The Ayatollah's proclamation of "divine insight" into the election made them angrier still.
Even the blood shed on the street has not discouraged them, but thrown them into a shear rage.Now Iran is staring down a full-blown revolution.
The police have been told they can use firearms (as if they haven't been using them) and the protesters have been denounced as terrorists.A lot of blood is going to be shed in the next few days.
And the press just happens to be considered a fair target by the Iranian government.
:-(</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423941</id>
	<title>Lipstick</title>
	<author>BodhiCat</author>
	<datestamp>1245691620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>At least Kathrine Harris is not involved in the Iranian election.  She is bad enough with make-up, could you imagine her without it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least Kathrine Harris is not involved in the Iranian election .
She is bad enough with make-up , could you imagine her without it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least Kathrine Harris is not involved in the Iranian election.
She is bad enough with make-up, could you imagine her without it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423175</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>\_Sprocket\_</author>
	<datestamp>1245689040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Of course, it didn't work that way. The Iranian public has been getting progressively angrier. These stalling tactics only made them madder. The Ayatollah's proclamation of "divine insight" into the election made them angrier still. Even the blood shed on the street has not discouraged them, but thrown them into a shear rage.</p><p>Now Iran is staring down a full-blown revolution. The police have been told they can use firearms (as if they haven't been using them) and the protesters have been denounced as terrorists.</p></div><p>My guess is that the regime understands what fueled the revolution that they, themselves, were a part of 30 years ago.  Bloodshed only served to strengthen the revolution (that and disinformation - which we're seeing plenty of already).  However, at what point does one decide that there is nothing left to lose and that blood is a gamble that must be made to preserve the current regime?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , it did n't work that way .
The Iranian public has been getting progressively angrier .
These stalling tactics only made them madder .
The Ayatollah 's proclamation of " divine insight " into the election made them angrier still .
Even the blood shed on the street has not discouraged them , but thrown them into a shear rage.Now Iran is staring down a full-blown revolution .
The police have been told they can use firearms ( as if they have n't been using them ) and the protesters have been denounced as terrorists.My guess is that the regime understands what fueled the revolution that they , themselves , were a part of 30 years ago .
Bloodshed only served to strengthen the revolution ( that and disinformation - which we 're seeing plenty of already ) .
However , at what point does one decide that there is nothing left to lose and that blood is a gamble that must be made to preserve the current regime ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, it didn't work that way.
The Iranian public has been getting progressively angrier.
These stalling tactics only made them madder.
The Ayatollah's proclamation of "divine insight" into the election made them angrier still.
Even the blood shed on the street has not discouraged them, but thrown them into a shear rage.Now Iran is staring down a full-blown revolution.
The police have been told they can use firearms (as if they haven't been using them) and the protesters have been denounced as terrorists.My guess is that the regime understands what fueled the revolution that they, themselves, were a part of 30 years ago.
Bloodshed only served to strengthen the revolution (that and disinformation - which we're seeing plenty of already).
However, at what point does one decide that there is nothing left to lose and that blood is a gamble that must be made to preserve the current regime?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422197</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422405</id>
	<title>that's nothing- try the political conventions here</title>
	<author>SuperBanana</author>
	<datestamp>1245686340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Reporters Without Borders is alarmed by the fact that no less than twenty-three journalists have been arrested in Iran in the week following the elections, making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalist</i>

</p><p>23?  That's it?  At the RNC's and DNC's for the last decade, the cops have been putting people in holding cells by the bushels, charging them with all sorts of things like "disturbing the peace", or just simply letting them go after 24 hours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Reporters Without Borders is alarmed by the fact that no less than twenty-three journalists have been arrested in Iran in the week following the elections , making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalist 23 ?
That 's it ?
At the RNC 's and DNC 's for the last decade , the cops have been putting people in holding cells by the bushels , charging them with all sorts of things like " disturbing the peace " , or just simply letting them go after 24 hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Reporters Without Borders is alarmed by the fact that no less than twenty-three journalists have been arrested in Iran in the week following the elections, making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalist

23?
That's it?
At the RNC's and DNC's for the last decade, the cops have been putting people in holding cells by the bushels, charging them with all sorts of things like "disturbing the peace", or just simply letting them go after 24 hours.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422329</id>
	<title>Fark has it right</title>
	<author>ultraexactzz</author>
	<datestamp>1245686160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The reason it's so important to cut through the misinformation is that the Iranian government is now tweeting with false information, and it's crucial to keep track of what is real and what is FUD. They are taking other measures as well; there are several reports that a speech by President Obama (who has yet to speak in support of the protesters) was translated as a speech calling for revolution and the overthrow of the regime. This lets Iran claim that the protests are the result of meddling by the Western powers.<br> <br>

Fark seems to be doing a really good job of cutting through the FUD and getting solid, reliable information out there. One of their users, Tatsuma, has a quite detailed and extensive analysis of the crisis, the players, and what is happening now. Their Iran threads would be a good place to start.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason it 's so important to cut through the misinformation is that the Iranian government is now tweeting with false information , and it 's crucial to keep track of what is real and what is FUD .
They are taking other measures as well ; there are several reports that a speech by President Obama ( who has yet to speak in support of the protesters ) was translated as a speech calling for revolution and the overthrow of the regime .
This lets Iran claim that the protests are the result of meddling by the Western powers .
Fark seems to be doing a really good job of cutting through the FUD and getting solid , reliable information out there .
One of their users , Tatsuma , has a quite detailed and extensive analysis of the crisis , the players , and what is happening now .
Their Iran threads would be a good place to start .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason it's so important to cut through the misinformation is that the Iranian government is now tweeting with false information, and it's crucial to keep track of what is real and what is FUD.
They are taking other measures as well; there are several reports that a speech by President Obama (who has yet to speak in support of the protesters) was translated as a speech calling for revolution and the overthrow of the regime.
This lets Iran claim that the protests are the result of meddling by the Western powers.
Fark seems to be doing a really good job of cutting through the FUD and getting solid, reliable information out there.
One of their users, Tatsuma, has a quite detailed and extensive analysis of the crisis, the players, and what is happening now.
Their Iran threads would be a good place to start.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424517</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245693540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>This does not confirm that the elections were a farce. It simply confirms that Iran is not a liberal democracy. If the elections were fair and a protest erupted, there would have been a similar clampdown.</i></p><p>At least they had protests.  We had two extremely suspect elections in a row, and US citizens did nothing.  It's pretty pathetic to think that Iranians expect more democratic results from their elections than we do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This does not confirm that the elections were a farce .
It simply confirms that Iran is not a liberal democracy .
If the elections were fair and a protest erupted , there would have been a similar clampdown.At least they had protests .
We had two extremely suspect elections in a row , and US citizens did nothing .
It 's pretty pathetic to think that Iranians expect more democratic results from their elections than we do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This does not confirm that the elections were a farce.
It simply confirms that Iran is not a liberal democracy.
If the elections were fair and a protest erupted, there would have been a similar clampdown.At least they had protests.
We had two extremely suspect elections in a row, and US citizens did nothing.
It's pretty pathetic to think that Iranians expect more democratic results from their elections than we do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422833</id>
	<title>Re:Duh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245687720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why didn't you link <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa\_fact\_hersh" title="newyorker.com" rel="nofollow">directly</a> [newyorker.com] to the article?  It is a stunning revelation indeed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why did n't you link directly [ newyorker.com ] to the article ?
It is a stunning revelation indeed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why didn't you link directly [newyorker.com] to the article?
It is a stunning revelation indeed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422409</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424803</id>
	<title>It is to laugh.</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1245694500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those demonstrators, puppets of Western regimes?</p><p>Ha.  If only.</p><p>America is the kind of country that could put a spy satellite capable of taking a crystal clear photo of a menu at an outdoor cafe in Tehran, but find itself unable to locate a Farsi speaker to translate it.</p><p>OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but the idea that we have the kind of human intelligence capability to create that kind of unrest is a joke.  Even in the swashbuckling days when we sent Kermit Roosevelt to Tehran with a suitcases of cash to stage a coup, we did it the old fashioned way, buying off government and military officials.   Even if we could manage that sort of thing today, there's no way we could create a popular uprising of this size. Even an indigenous opposition movement couldn't do it.</p><p>There's only one agency that could have created these protests: the Iranian regime itself.  It started with a miscalculation: they underestimated voter turnout.  Then they panicked, over-reacting again and again, until they are in danger of recreating the very conditions of the revolution that brought them to power.  It's a mistake old men in power too long frequently make. They become the very thing they fought against and won when they were young men.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those demonstrators , puppets of Western regimes ? Ha .
If only.America is the kind of country that could put a spy satellite capable of taking a crystal clear photo of a menu at an outdoor cafe in Tehran , but find itself unable to locate a Farsi speaker to translate it.OK , that 's a bit of an exaggeration , but the idea that we have the kind of human intelligence capability to create that kind of unrest is a joke .
Even in the swashbuckling days when we sent Kermit Roosevelt to Tehran with a suitcases of cash to stage a coup , we did it the old fashioned way , buying off government and military officials .
Even if we could manage that sort of thing today , there 's no way we could create a popular uprising of this size .
Even an indigenous opposition movement could n't do it.There 's only one agency that could have created these protests : the Iranian regime itself .
It started with a miscalculation : they underestimated voter turnout .
Then they panicked , over-reacting again and again , until they are in danger of recreating the very conditions of the revolution that brought them to power .
It 's a mistake old men in power too long frequently make .
They become the very thing they fought against and won when they were young men .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those demonstrators, puppets of Western regimes?Ha.
If only.America is the kind of country that could put a spy satellite capable of taking a crystal clear photo of a menu at an outdoor cafe in Tehran, but find itself unable to locate a Farsi speaker to translate it.OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but the idea that we have the kind of human intelligence capability to create that kind of unrest is a joke.
Even in the swashbuckling days when we sent Kermit Roosevelt to Tehran with a suitcases of cash to stage a coup, we did it the old fashioned way, buying off government and military officials.
Even if we could manage that sort of thing today, there's no way we could create a popular uprising of this size.
Even an indigenous opposition movement couldn't do it.There's only one agency that could have created these protests: the Iranian regime itself.
It started with a miscalculation: they underestimated voter turnout.
Then they panicked, over-reacting again and again, until they are in danger of recreating the very conditions of the revolution that brought them to power.
It's a mistake old men in power too long frequently make.
They become the very thing they fought against and won when they were young men.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422101</id>
	<title>Marg bar Diktator!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The regime seems to be fighting the last media war.  They've been very effective in deporting and isolating professionals, only to discover how irrelevant that is when thousands of phone-cams are in the streets. Their attempts at jamming and filtering have clearly been quite porous. There's no such thing as a media blackout once word of mouth goes world wide.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The regime seems to be fighting the last media war .
They 've been very effective in deporting and isolating professionals , only to discover how irrelevant that is when thousands of phone-cams are in the streets .
Their attempts at jamming and filtering have clearly been quite porous .
There 's no such thing as a media blackout once word of mouth goes world wide .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The regime seems to be fighting the last media war.
They've been very effective in deporting and isolating professionals, only to discover how irrelevant that is when thousands of phone-cams are in the streets.
Their attempts at jamming and filtering have clearly been quite porous.
There's no such thing as a media blackout once word of mouth goes world wide.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28426365</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>rs79</author>
	<datestamp>1245700080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i> <b>"I don't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth.</b></i></p><p><i><b>Hell, I doubt many people inside Iran know the truth.</b></i> "</p><p>What he said. Twitter is ablaze with the revolution and attempts to sort fact from fiction. One of the accepted "facts" is that embassies are taking in the wounded.</p><p>A buddy of mine is the guy that conncted Iran to the net in the 90s. He's over there still and says this is a complete myth.</p><p>There is *so* much misinformation now it almost lends credence to the notion the CIA is doing it again.</p><p>See also:<br><a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fiskrsquos-world-in-tehran-fantasy-and-reality-make-uneasy-bedfellows-1710762.html" title="independent.co.uk">http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fiskrsquos-world-in-tehran-fantasy-and-reality-make-uneasy-bedfellows-1710762.html</a> [independent.co.uk]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I do n't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth.Hell , I doubt many people inside Iran know the truth .
" What he said .
Twitter is ablaze with the revolution and attempts to sort fact from fiction .
One of the accepted " facts " is that embassies are taking in the wounded.A buddy of mine is the guy that conncted Iran to the net in the 90s .
He 's over there still and says this is a complete myth.There is * so * much misinformation now it almost lends credence to the notion the CIA is doing it again.See also : http : //www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fiskrsquos-world-in-tehran-fantasy-and-reality-make-uneasy-bedfellows-1710762.html [ independent.co.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext> "I don't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth.Hell, I doubt many people inside Iran know the truth.
"What he said.
Twitter is ablaze with the revolution and attempts to sort fact from fiction.
One of the accepted "facts" is that embassies are taking in the wounded.A buddy of mine is the guy that conncted Iran to the net in the 90s.
He's over there still and says this is a complete myth.There is *so* much misinformation now it almost lends credence to the notion the CIA is doing it again.See also:http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fiskrsquos-world-in-tehran-fantasy-and-reality-make-uneasy-bedfellows-1710762.html [independent.co.uk]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28425983</id>
	<title>Re:dictatorships, cartels, democracy</title>
	<author>King\_TJ</author>
	<datestamp>1245698700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's quite a bit like a monarchy, where a good, just king means the country he rules over generally does well.....</p><p>As an American though, I happen to believe that ultimately, a dictatorship is not the best form of government.  As you said, the trick is to "avoid the bad dictator", yet there doesn't really seem to be much of a mechanism in place for the populace to DO that in a peaceful manner.  A new dictator often takes control by force, or retains power by stripping the people of most of the tools they might use to oust him.</p><p>As it relates to your CEO/software company analogy; Imagine you accept a job with a software company you think is going great things.  Your pay is good and you like what you do.  All of a sudden though, someone else takes control of the company and changes its direction.  You're transferred to a new dept. with a big pay cut and forced to work on projects you dislike.  Oddly though, there's a catch.  You're not ALLOWED to quit and work for someone else.  They have the means to hold you prisoner, forcing you to accept their terms of employment.  That's the problem with a dictatorship...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's quite a bit like a monarchy , where a good , just king means the country he rules over generally does well.....As an American though , I happen to believe that ultimately , a dictatorship is not the best form of government .
As you said , the trick is to " avoid the bad dictator " , yet there does n't really seem to be much of a mechanism in place for the populace to DO that in a peaceful manner .
A new dictator often takes control by force , or retains power by stripping the people of most of the tools they might use to oust him.As it relates to your CEO/software company analogy ; Imagine you accept a job with a software company you think is going great things .
Your pay is good and you like what you do .
All of a sudden though , someone else takes control of the company and changes its direction .
You 're transferred to a new dept .
with a big pay cut and forced to work on projects you dislike .
Oddly though , there 's a catch .
You 're not ALLOWED to quit and work for someone else .
They have the means to hold you prisoner , forcing you to accept their terms of employment .
That 's the problem with a dictatorship.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's quite a bit like a monarchy, where a good, just king means the country he rules over generally does well.....As an American though, I happen to believe that ultimately, a dictatorship is not the best form of government.
As you said, the trick is to "avoid the bad dictator", yet there doesn't really seem to be much of a mechanism in place for the populace to DO that in a peaceful manner.
A new dictator often takes control by force, or retains power by stripping the people of most of the tools they might use to oust him.As it relates to your CEO/software company analogy; Imagine you accept a job with a software company you think is going great things.
Your pay is good and you like what you do.
All of a sudden though, someone else takes control of the company and changes its direction.
You're transferred to a new dept.
with a big pay cut and forced to work on projects you dislike.
Oddly though, there's a catch.
You're not ALLOWED to quit and work for someone else.
They have the means to hold you prisoner, forcing you to accept their terms of employment.
That's the problem with a dictatorship...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28435237</id>
	<title>Re:dictatorships, cartels, democracy</title>
	<author>bogjobber</author>
	<datestamp>1245697080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p><i>There are benefits to a dictatorship. When you have a good dictator, things are generally pretty
good. The trick is to avoid the bad dictator.</i></p></div>  </blockquote><p>And how do you propose you "avoid" the bad dictator?  If he's a dictator, he's probably not going to abdicate under any circumstances.</p><p>The strength of democracy isn't that it brings about more good leaders, it's that you can easily remove the bad leaders while maintaining stability.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are benefits to a dictatorship .
When you have a good dictator , things are generally pretty good .
The trick is to avoid the bad dictator .
And how do you propose you " avoid " the bad dictator ?
If he 's a dictator , he 's probably not going to abdicate under any circumstances.The strength of democracy is n't that it brings about more good leaders , it 's that you can easily remove the bad leaders while maintaining stability .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are benefits to a dictatorship.
When you have a good dictator, things are generally pretty
good.
The trick is to avoid the bad dictator.
And how do you propose you "avoid" the bad dictator?
If he's a dictator, he's probably not going to abdicate under any circumstances.The strength of democracy isn't that it brings about more good leaders, it's that you can easily remove the bad leaders while maintaining stability.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423213</id>
	<title>Re:Standing up</title>
	<author>castironpigeon</author>
	<datestamp>1245689100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How do you suppose the world's superpowers remain superpowers without meddling in every other country's affairs? The only reason this is happening in Iran is because somebody's put a lot of resources into it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you suppose the world 's superpowers remain superpowers without meddling in every other country 's affairs ?
The only reason this is happening in Iran is because somebody 's put a lot of resources into it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you suppose the world's superpowers remain superpowers without meddling in every other country's affairs?
The only reason this is happening in Iran is because somebody's put a lot of resources into it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422135</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28440223</id>
	<title>Hmmm, watch American Idol or media blitz to Iran</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245777240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Before I hop on the media blitz and anti-Iran bandwagon I'll note:</p><p>* American officials have admitted to having 100,000 spies around the world. The U.S. also uses academics and journalists as spies. For example, recent Rhodes Scholar in Bolivia asked to spy.<br>* National Endowment for Democracy is U.S. government organization that funds political opposition groups in foreign countries whose governments the U.S. dislikes.<br>* Psychological operations are common place now such as the staged Saddam statue toppling. Recent BBC protest photos that were really a cropped pro-Ahmadinejad rally.<br>* I have not forgotten the warmongering media blitz about WMD that was completely fabricated.<br>* The U.S. has not had problems supporting and funding dictators, as long as they are "our dictators." Pinochet, the Shah of Iran ( Can you say CIA puppet, anyone?)<br>* The Iran election is getting more attention than the stolen elections by Bush.<br>* Ahmadinejad is not even the supreme Iranian leader. Why all the hype?</p><p>I think I'd rather watch reruns of Amercian Idol.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Before I hop on the media blitz and anti-Iran bandwagon I 'll note : * American officials have admitted to having 100,000 spies around the world .
The U.S. also uses academics and journalists as spies .
For example , recent Rhodes Scholar in Bolivia asked to spy .
* National Endowment for Democracy is U.S. government organization that funds political opposition groups in foreign countries whose governments the U.S .
dislikes. * Psychological operations are common place now such as the staged Saddam statue toppling .
Recent BBC protest photos that were really a cropped pro-Ahmadinejad rally .
* I have not forgotten the warmongering media blitz about WMD that was completely fabricated .
* The U.S. has not had problems supporting and funding dictators , as long as they are " our dictators .
" Pinochet , the Shah of Iran ( Can you say CIA puppet , anyone ?
) * The Iran election is getting more attention than the stolen elections by Bush .
* Ahmadinejad is not even the supreme Iranian leader .
Why all the hype ? I think I 'd rather watch reruns of Amercian Idol .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before I hop on the media blitz and anti-Iran bandwagon I'll note:* American officials have admitted to having 100,000 spies around the world.
The U.S. also uses academics and journalists as spies.
For example, recent Rhodes Scholar in Bolivia asked to spy.
* National Endowment for Democracy is U.S. government organization that funds political opposition groups in foreign countries whose governments the U.S.
dislikes.* Psychological operations are common place now such as the staged Saddam statue toppling.
Recent BBC protest photos that were really a cropped pro-Ahmadinejad rally.
* I have not forgotten the warmongering media blitz about WMD that was completely fabricated.
* The U.S. has not had problems supporting and funding dictators, as long as they are "our dictators.
" Pinochet, the Shah of Iran ( Can you say CIA puppet, anyone?
)* The Iran election is getting more attention than the stolen elections by Bush.
* Ahmadinejad is not even the supreme Iranian leader.
Why all the hype?I think I'd rather watch reruns of Amercian Idol.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424251</id>
	<title>It is not supporting to merely say "good luck"</title>
	<author>SuperKendall</author>
	<datestamp>1245692580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"if we in the west get involved there will always be accusations of puppets and strings.<br>the only way for the Iranian people to earn the respect of those that run the country and the other countries of the region is to do this on their own."</p><p>They are.</p><p>It's not like anyone is helping.</p><p>But it's also false to say that we should refrain from saying anything positive at all.  Sometimes it's good to come out and just say "Good luck, our sympathies are with you, we hope all turns out well for you and we think what you are trying to do is the right thing."</p><p>If we can't say even that much, we should not even call ourselves human.</p><p>If they do not want these words, mere words, spoken, then they would have aid so in interviews.  Instead we hear the opposition leader chastise Obama for saying he and current leadership are identical.  Instead we hear Iranian people on the streets crying for Oabma to help (at least at first they were).</p><p>It's not like our speaking or not matters to what the government will actually do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" if we in the west get involved there will always be accusations of puppets and strings.the only way for the Iranian people to earn the respect of those that run the country and the other countries of the region is to do this on their own .
" They are.It 's not like anyone is helping.But it 's also false to say that we should refrain from saying anything positive at all .
Sometimes it 's good to come out and just say " Good luck , our sympathies are with you , we hope all turns out well for you and we think what you are trying to do is the right thing .
" If we ca n't say even that much , we should not even call ourselves human.If they do not want these words , mere words , spoken , then they would have aid so in interviews .
Instead we hear the opposition leader chastise Obama for saying he and current leadership are identical .
Instead we hear Iranian people on the streets crying for Oabma to help ( at least at first they were ) .It 's not like our speaking or not matters to what the government will actually do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"if we in the west get involved there will always be accusations of puppets and strings.the only way for the Iranian people to earn the respect of those that run the country and the other countries of the region is to do this on their own.
"They are.It's not like anyone is helping.But it's also false to say that we should refrain from saying anything positive at all.
Sometimes it's good to come out and just say "Good luck, our sympathies are with you, we hope all turns out well for you and we think what you are trying to do is the right thing.
"If we can't say even that much, we should not even call ourselves human.If they do not want these words, mere words, spoken, then they would have aid so in interviews.
Instead we hear the opposition leader chastise Obama for saying he and current leadership are identical.
Instead we hear Iranian people on the streets crying for Oabma to help (at least at first they were).It's not like our speaking or not matters to what the government will actually do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422135</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423939</id>
	<title>Re:hey</title>
	<author>Bemopolis</author>
	<datestamp>1245691620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The only way you can disagree with me is if you are under the influence of the Great Satan. So either you agree with me, or you are obviously evil. What better argument could you want?</p></div></blockquote><p>
So either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only way you can disagree with me is if you are under the influence of the Great Satan .
So either you agree with me , or you are obviously evil .
What better argument could you want ?
So either you are with us , or you are with the terrorists ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only way you can disagree with me is if you are under the influence of the Great Satan.
So either you agree with me, or you are obviously evil.
What better argument could you want?
So either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28436771</id>
	<title>Re:American Hypocrasy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245757320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; I find it amazing that this much of a stink wasn't made during the Zimbabwean elections...where anti mugabe supporters were being raped and murdered by the thousands Then again, I guess there are no economic interests in that part of Africa, like there are in Iran (read: oil)</p><p>Most of them don't have internet.  It's a lot different when you can actually communicate directly with the people who are being oppressed.</p><p>Also, most people can't do much of anything.  About the best most of us can do is to set up proxies for the reformists.  That's not a lot.  I don't think proxies would do any good in Zimbabwe.</p><p>If it's any consolation, I hope they get rid of Mugabe.  But I have no idea how, if at all, I can help them do that.  A proxy won't help much, will it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; I find it amazing that this much of a stink was n't made during the Zimbabwean elections...where anti mugabe supporters were being raped and murdered by the thousands Then again , I guess there are no economic interests in that part of Africa , like there are in Iran ( read : oil ) Most of them do n't have internet .
It 's a lot different when you can actually communicate directly with the people who are being oppressed.Also , most people ca n't do much of anything .
About the best most of us can do is to set up proxies for the reformists .
That 's not a lot .
I do n't think proxies would do any good in Zimbabwe.If it 's any consolation , I hope they get rid of Mugabe .
But I have no idea how , if at all , I can help them do that .
A proxy wo n't help much , will it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; I find it amazing that this much of a stink wasn't made during the Zimbabwean elections...where anti mugabe supporters were being raped and murdered by the thousands Then again, I guess there are no economic interests in that part of Africa, like there are in Iran (read: oil)Most of them don't have internet.
It's a lot different when you can actually communicate directly with the people who are being oppressed.Also, most people can't do much of anything.
About the best most of us can do is to set up proxies for the reformists.
That's not a lot.
I don't think proxies would do any good in Zimbabwe.If it's any consolation, I hope they get rid of Mugabe.
But I have no idea how, if at all, I can help them do that.
A proxy won't help much, will it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422731</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422109</id>
	<title>Fool me once, shame on you</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>www.gwu.edu/ ~ nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423561</id>
	<title>Re:i understand the historical reasons</title>
	<author>rev\_sanchez</author>
	<datestamp>1245690180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They share a western border with Iraq and an eastern border with Afghanistan.  In the last 60 years the US has helped overthrow one of their leaders, supported one of their enemies in a pretty devastating war against them, many of our top officials have threated regime change against their government, and over the last several years we've funded various non-governmental organizations within Iran with the goal of undermining their leadership.

I don't support Iran's government in the least but we've made their claims of Western interference a very easy sell and I'm not that convinced that we've ever stopped interfering with their admittedly crappy government.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They share a western border with Iraq and an eastern border with Afghanistan .
In the last 60 years the US has helped overthrow one of their leaders , supported one of their enemies in a pretty devastating war against them , many of our top officials have threated regime change against their government , and over the last several years we 've funded various non-governmental organizations within Iran with the goal of undermining their leadership .
I do n't support Iran 's government in the least but we 've made their claims of Western interference a very easy sell and I 'm not that convinced that we 've ever stopped interfering with their admittedly crappy government .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They share a western border with Iraq and an eastern border with Afghanistan.
In the last 60 years the US has helped overthrow one of their leaders, supported one of their enemies in a pretty devastating war against them, many of our top officials have threated regime change against their government, and over the last several years we've funded various non-governmental organizations within Iran with the goal of undermining their leadership.
I don't support Iran's government in the least but we've made their claims of Western interference a very easy sell and I'm not that convinced that we've ever stopped interfering with their admittedly crappy government.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423855</id>
	<title>well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245691320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>we already have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan we might as well hit Iran from both sides and hit em hard, kick their ass real good and kick em hard so they will remember it for a long long time</htmltext>
<tokenext>we already have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan we might as well hit Iran from both sides and hit em hard , kick their ass real good and kick em hard so they will remember it for a long long time</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we already have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan we might as well hit Iran from both sides and hit em hard, kick their ass real good and kick em hard so they will remember it for a long long time</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28428389</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>StikyPad</author>
	<datestamp>1245663480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>*That* might not confirm it, but <a href="http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&amp;art=15583&amp;size=A" title="asianews.it">this</a> [asianews.it] pretty much does.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>* That * might not confirm it , but this [ asianews.it ] pretty much does .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>*That* might not confirm it, but this [asianews.it] pretty much does.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28429115</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1245665820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What a curious way to look at it. Here I was thinking that what the West feared was the result, not the method of arriving at it.</p></div><p>From Western perspective, there's little difference between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi. Both are strongly anti-Western. Both are in favor of continuing Iran's nuclear program. Also keep in mind that Mousavi was a prime minister of Iran during a fairly bloody period of its history, shortly after the Islamic Revolution.</p><p>The reason why it still makes sense to support Mousavi is because dealing with a democratic Iran is easier than dealing with a theocratic one. For theocratic party, anti-Western rhetoric is inevitable and necessary for the sake of self-preservation, and they will never abandon it no matter what. The democratic party may be anti-Western at a given moment, but they do not need such fear-mongering to stay in power - only the support of electorate - and thus, if the West offers reasonable terms to deal on, and the people find them favorable, local democrats may well change their position.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What a curious way to look at it .
Here I was thinking that what the West feared was the result , not the method of arriving at it.From Western perspective , there 's little difference between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi .
Both are strongly anti-Western .
Both are in favor of continuing Iran 's nuclear program .
Also keep in mind that Mousavi was a prime minister of Iran during a fairly bloody period of its history , shortly after the Islamic Revolution.The reason why it still makes sense to support Mousavi is because dealing with a democratic Iran is easier than dealing with a theocratic one .
For theocratic party , anti-Western rhetoric is inevitable and necessary for the sake of self-preservation , and they will never abandon it no matter what .
The democratic party may be anti-Western at a given moment , but they do not need such fear-mongering to stay in power - only the support of electorate - and thus , if the West offers reasonable terms to deal on , and the people find them favorable , local democrats may well change their position .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a curious way to look at it.
Here I was thinking that what the West feared was the result, not the method of arriving at it.From Western perspective, there's little difference between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi.
Both are strongly anti-Western.
Both are in favor of continuing Iran's nuclear program.
Also keep in mind that Mousavi was a prime minister of Iran during a fairly bloody period of its history, shortly after the Islamic Revolution.The reason why it still makes sense to support Mousavi is because dealing with a democratic Iran is easier than dealing with a theocratic one.
For theocratic party, anti-Western rhetoric is inevitable and necessary for the sake of self-preservation, and they will never abandon it no matter what.
The democratic party may be anti-Western at a given moment, but they do not need such fear-mongering to stay in power - only the support of electorate - and thus, if the West offers reasonable terms to deal on, and the people find them favorable, local democrats may well change their position.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422879</id>
	<title>Dangerous?</title>
	<author>xtracto</author>
	<datestamp>1245687900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalist</p></div><p>If the journalists are being arrested I do not see how that makes Iran a "dangerous" place for a journalist...</p><p>Compare that to Mexico where journalists get kidnapped, physically assaulted, killed, and whatnot...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalistIf the journalists are being arrested I do not see how that makes Iran a " dangerous " place for a journalist...Compare that to Mexico where journalists get kidnapped , physically assaulted , killed , and whatnot.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>making Iran one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a journalistIf the journalists are being arrested I do not see how that makes Iran a "dangerous" place for a journalist...Compare that to Mexico where journalists get kidnapped, physically assaulted, killed, and whatnot...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422427</id>
	<title>Hey</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245686340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>aren't you people supposed to wait for Tatsuma to post first?  wait...wait...wrong site..my bad.</htmltext>
<tokenext>are n't you people supposed to wait for Tatsuma to post first ?
wait...wait...wrong site..my bad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>aren't you people supposed to wait for Tatsuma to post first?
wait...wait...wrong site..my bad.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422731</id>
	<title>American Hypocrasy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245687360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I find it <i>amazing</i> that this much of a stink wasn't made during the Zimbabwean elections...where anti mugabe supporters were being <b>raped and murdered by the thousands</b> Then again, I guess there are no economic interests in that part of Africa, like there are in Iran (read: oil)</p><p>I praise the internet for being able to illuminate to us all, the double speak and forked tounge of the supposed 'freedom force (or farce rather)' known as America.</p><p>Hypocritical Liars.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I find it amazing that this much of a stink was n't made during the Zimbabwean elections...where anti mugabe supporters were being raped and murdered by the thousands Then again , I guess there are no economic interests in that part of Africa , like there are in Iran ( read : oil ) I praise the internet for being able to illuminate to us all , the double speak and forked tounge of the supposed 'freedom force ( or farce rather ) ' known as America.Hypocritical Liars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find it amazing that this much of a stink wasn't made during the Zimbabwean elections...where anti mugabe supporters were being raped and murdered by the thousands Then again, I guess there are no economic interests in that part of Africa, like there are in Iran (read: oil)I praise the internet for being able to illuminate to us all, the double speak and forked tounge of the supposed 'freedom force (or farce rather)' known as America.Hypocritical Liars.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424059</id>
	<title>Re:dictatorships, cartels, democracy</title>
	<author>zindorsky</author>
	<datestamp>1245691920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>When you have a good dictator, things are generally pretty<br>good.  The trick is to avoid the bad dictator.</p></div><p>That is indeed the trick. The fact is, the harm that bad dictators cause greatly outweighs any good that "good" dictators provide. And a dictator system, once in place, is very hard to get rid of.</p><p>Also, I feel suspicious of the idea that there are "good" dictators. Some may start out good, but power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When you have a good dictator , things are generally prettygood .
The trick is to avoid the bad dictator.That is indeed the trick .
The fact is , the harm that bad dictators cause greatly outweighs any good that " good " dictators provide .
And a dictator system , once in place , is very hard to get rid of.Also , I feel suspicious of the idea that there are " good " dictators .
Some may start out good , but power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you have a good dictator, things are generally prettygood.
The trick is to avoid the bad dictator.That is indeed the trick.
The fact is, the harm that bad dictators cause greatly outweighs any good that "good" dictators provide.
And a dictator system, once in place, is very hard to get rid of.Also, I feel suspicious of the idea that there are "good" dictators.
Some may start out good, but power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422123</id>
	<title>Foreign Influence in Iran Protests is Real</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>"One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they're puppets of foreign powers, so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people."</i></p><p>Regardless of what one thinks about the Ayatollahs and Ahmadinejad, it is well known that the CIA and other western powers are spending millions stirring up trouble in Iran: <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1543798/US-funds-terror-groups-to-sow-chaos-in-Iran.html" title="telegraph.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1543798/US-funds-terror-groups-to-sow-chaos-in-Iran.html</a> [telegraph.co.uk]</p><p>This article gives some historical overview of western meddling in Iran: <a href="http://www.voltairenet.org/article160670.html" title="voltairenet.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.voltairenet.org/article160670.html</a> [voltairenet.org]</p><p>What many of you also fail to understand is that while Musavi is less fundamentalist than Ahmadinejad, his views are hardly one of support for "human rights" and free society. It is sorta like the difference between Republicans and Democrats - a few differences on paper but little substantial difference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they 're puppets of foreign powers , so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people .
" Regardless of what one thinks about the Ayatollahs and Ahmadinejad , it is well known that the CIA and other western powers are spending millions stirring up trouble in Iran : http : //www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1543798/US-funds-terror-groups-to-sow-chaos-in-Iran.html [ telegraph.co.uk ] This article gives some historical overview of western meddling in Iran : http : //www.voltairenet.org/article160670.html [ voltairenet.org ] What many of you also fail to understand is that while Musavi is less fundamentalist than Ahmadinejad , his views are hardly one of support for " human rights " and free society .
It is sorta like the difference between Republicans and Democrats - a few differences on paper but little substantial difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"One problem is that Iranian leaders are trying to delegitimize the reform movement by pretending that they're puppets of foreign powers, so special discretion is required for anyone wanting to help the Iranian people.
"Regardless of what one thinks about the Ayatollahs and Ahmadinejad, it is well known that the CIA and other western powers are spending millions stirring up trouble in Iran: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1543798/US-funds-terror-groups-to-sow-chaos-in-Iran.html [telegraph.co.uk]This article gives some historical overview of western meddling in Iran: http://www.voltairenet.org/article160670.html [voltairenet.org]What many of you also fail to understand is that while Musavi is less fundamentalist than Ahmadinejad, his views are hardly one of support for "human rights" and free society.
It is sorta like the difference between Republicans and Democrats - a few differences on paper but little substantial difference.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423807</id>
	<title>Re:Standing up</title>
	<author>evanbd</author>
	<datestamp>1245691140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems to me that helping them communicate (setting up proxies, opening more tor exit nodes, etc) is helpful, but not particularly open to cries of puppetry.  Plenty of people are doing exactly that, and I think it's wonderful that there are simple things a quiet geek can do to help out a bit.  Of course, detractors can always claim that open communication is a Western ideal, but it's become quite clear that a lot of Iranians want it as well.</p><p>Shameless plug time: <a href="http://freenetproject.org/" title="freenetproject.org">Freenet</a> [freenetproject.org] is designed to provide anonymous, censorship resistant communications channels in the face of a serious adversary.  For a number of technical reasons, the current version isn't all that well suited to the current situation in Iran.  However, people are working on that and it might well be helpful at some point in the future.  However, there's a less technical problem: it has no Persian translation!  If anyone knows someone who speaks Persian well enough to translate, a translation would be much appreciated.  The software includes a translation interface, so it's really easy to contribute a full or partial translation.  Plenty of support for such an effort would be available as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems to me that helping them communicate ( setting up proxies , opening more tor exit nodes , etc ) is helpful , but not particularly open to cries of puppetry .
Plenty of people are doing exactly that , and I think it 's wonderful that there are simple things a quiet geek can do to help out a bit .
Of course , detractors can always claim that open communication is a Western ideal , but it 's become quite clear that a lot of Iranians want it as well.Shameless plug time : Freenet [ freenetproject.org ] is designed to provide anonymous , censorship resistant communications channels in the face of a serious adversary .
For a number of technical reasons , the current version is n't all that well suited to the current situation in Iran .
However , people are working on that and it might well be helpful at some point in the future .
However , there 's a less technical problem : it has no Persian translation !
If anyone knows someone who speaks Persian well enough to translate , a translation would be much appreciated .
The software includes a translation interface , so it 's really easy to contribute a full or partial translation .
Plenty of support for such an effort would be available as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems to me that helping them communicate (setting up proxies, opening more tor exit nodes, etc) is helpful, but not particularly open to cries of puppetry.
Plenty of people are doing exactly that, and I think it's wonderful that there are simple things a quiet geek can do to help out a bit.
Of course, detractors can always claim that open communication is a Western ideal, but it's become quite clear that a lot of Iranians want it as well.Shameless plug time: Freenet [freenetproject.org] is designed to provide anonymous, censorship resistant communications channels in the face of a serious adversary.
For a number of technical reasons, the current version isn't all that well suited to the current situation in Iran.
However, people are working on that and it might well be helpful at some point in the future.
However, there's a less technical problem: it has no Persian translation!
If anyone knows someone who speaks Persian well enough to translate, a translation would be much appreciated.
The software includes a translation interface, so it's really easy to contribute a full or partial translation.
Plenty of support for such an effort would be available as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422135</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423711</id>
	<title>Re:dictatorships, cartels, democracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245690720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The question isn't whether dictatorships are good for American people, but whether they are good for American Corporations. A corporate friendly Dictator is better than a Democracy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The question is n't whether dictatorships are good for American people , but whether they are good for American Corporations .
A corporate friendly Dictator is better than a Democracy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The question isn't whether dictatorships are good for American people, but whether they are good for American Corporations.
A corporate friendly Dictator is better than a Democracy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422721</id>
	<title>Re:Fark has it right</title>
	<author>SatanicPuppy</author>
	<datestamp>1245687360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They'll claim it's interference by Western Powers regardless, because some people will believe it, and it's a nice bogeyman to justify their harsh repression.</p><p>I think Obama is doing the right thing by staying out of it...Given our reputation over there any <em>overt</em> involvement could only make things worse...And, frankly, whoever wins, it's not going to change a lot for us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 'll claim it 's interference by Western Powers regardless , because some people will believe it , and it 's a nice bogeyman to justify their harsh repression.I think Obama is doing the right thing by staying out of it...Given our reputation over there any overt involvement could only make things worse...And , frankly , whoever wins , it 's not going to change a lot for us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They'll claim it's interference by Western Powers regardless, because some people will believe it, and it's a nice bogeyman to justify their harsh repression.I think Obama is doing the right thing by staying out of it...Given our reputation over there any overt involvement could only make things worse...And, frankly, whoever wins, it's not going to change a lot for us.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424815</id>
	<title>This is Government in its purest form</title>
	<author>serutan</author>
	<datestamp>1245694560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People simply imposing their will on the rest is far more common than any "by the people" form of government. When a bunch of big guys with sticks say, "We're in charge, now go make me a sammich," the traditional response of the average person has been to bow down and go make the sammich. Most of us who live in societies that have some form of coercion built in to keep the authorities at bay didn't have to fight for that privilege. Our ancestors did. We grew up taking it for granted that our "rights" are obvious, inviolable and somehow self-sustaining. But they're not. Situations like this should teach us how unhealthy that kind of complacency is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People simply imposing their will on the rest is far more common than any " by the people " form of government .
When a bunch of big guys with sticks say , " We 're in charge , now go make me a sammich , " the traditional response of the average person has been to bow down and go make the sammich .
Most of us who live in societies that have some form of coercion built in to keep the authorities at bay did n't have to fight for that privilege .
Our ancestors did .
We grew up taking it for granted that our " rights " are obvious , inviolable and somehow self-sustaining .
But they 're not .
Situations like this should teach us how unhealthy that kind of complacency is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People simply imposing their will on the rest is far more common than any "by the people" form of government.
When a bunch of big guys with sticks say, "We're in charge, now go make me a sammich," the traditional response of the average person has been to bow down and go make the sammich.
Most of us who live in societies that have some form of coercion built in to keep the authorities at bay didn't have to fight for that privilege.
Our ancestors did.
We grew up taking it for granted that our "rights" are obvious, inviolable and somehow self-sustaining.
But they're not.
Situations like this should teach us how unhealthy that kind of complacency is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422903</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245688020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><div class="quote"><p><i>I don't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth.</i></p> </div><p>Iranians living in the US know the truth. Seek out what they have to say on Google. <br> <br>By the way, you may think the US government is FOS, but take note of the language used on many of the protester's signs. They're in English, and I don't think they are necessarily looking for attention from the Brits. <br> <br>Having worked with a former Iranian several years ago, I can tell you only what he told me - there can be terrible consequences if someone speaks out against the ruling mullahs. I, for one, would like to see this upheaval undermine the bastards that are ruling that otherwise magnificent country, populated by smart hard working people.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth .
Iranians living in the US know the truth .
Seek out what they have to say on Google .
By the way , you may think the US government is FOS , but take note of the language used on many of the protester 's signs .
They 're in English , and I do n't think they are necessarily looking for attention from the Brits .
Having worked with a former Iranian several years ago , I can tell you only what he told me - there can be terrible consequences if someone speaks out against the ruling mullahs .
I , for one , would like to see this upheaval undermine the bastards that are ruling that otherwise magnificent country , populated by smart hard working people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth.
Iranians living in the US know the truth.
Seek out what they have to say on Google.
By the way, you may think the US government is FOS, but take note of the language used on many of the protester's signs.
They're in English, and I don't think they are necessarily looking for attention from the Brits.
Having worked with a former Iranian several years ago, I can tell you only what he told me - there can be terrible consequences if someone speaks out against the ruling mullahs.
I, for one, would like to see this upheaval undermine the bastards that are ruling that otherwise magnificent country, populated by smart hard working people.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422117</id>
	<title>Serious case of BSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It seems like it's always the same with these people: Blame Someone Else - they never take responsibility for anything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems like it 's always the same with these people : Blame Someone Else - they never take responsibility for anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems like it's always the same with these people: Blame Someone Else - they never take responsibility for anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28425431</id>
	<title>Re:dictatorships, cartels, democracy</title>
	<author>jandrese</author>
	<datestamp>1245696600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's a quote I think you should hear:<blockquote><div><p> <a href="http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/288200.html" title="phrases.org.uk">"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." -- John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton</a> [phrases.org.uk]</p></div> </blockquote><p>

This is why dictatorships are doomed to failure.  Without a system of checks and balances on power, the people at the top will inevitably become corrupt.  History has proven this time and time again.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a quote I think you should hear : " Power tends to corrupt , and absolute power corrupts absolutely .
Great men are almost always bad men .
" -- John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton [ phrases.org.uk ] This is why dictatorships are doomed to failure .
Without a system of checks and balances on power , the people at the top will inevitably become corrupt .
History has proven this time and time again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a quote I think you should hear: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Great men are almost always bad men.
" -- John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton [phrases.org.uk] 

This is why dictatorships are doomed to failure.
Without a system of checks and balances on power, the people at the top will inevitably become corrupt.
History has proven this time and time again.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424371</id>
	<title>Re:i understand the historical reasons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245693000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>are the iranian people that deluded (or rather: the iranian government thinks so lowly of their own people) that anyone would actually believe this massive popular uprising is actually just manipulation by foreign powers?</i> </p><p>Yes, I think basically that because of historical reasons like Operation Ajax some Iranian people really do believe the Americans are trying to manipulate foreign powers.</p><p>The CIA and president Eisenhower literally orchestrated a coup to overthrow the Iranian government in control back then, and that was only 50 years ago.  Plenty of Iranians lived through that and remember it well.  Most of us Americans have completely forgotten about the Iran conflict.  That doesn't mean we're at fault, but that our politicians (specifically the Republicans) should go back and pick up a history book before loudmouthing off about how we need to be messing around in Iran.</p><p>The CIA has a long history of messing around in Iran:</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA\_activities\_in\_the\_Near\_East,\_North\_Africa,\_South\_and\_Southwest\_Asia#Middle\_East" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA\_activities\_in\_the\_Near\_East,\_North\_Africa,\_South\_and\_Southwest\_Asia#Middle\_East</a> [wikipedia.org] </p><p>Oh yeah... and Bush called them part of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis\_of\_evil" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Axis of Evil</a> [wikipedia.org].  That probably didn't help.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>are the iranian people that deluded ( or rather : the iranian government thinks so lowly of their own people ) that anyone would actually believe this massive popular uprising is actually just manipulation by foreign powers ?
Yes , I think basically that because of historical reasons like Operation Ajax some Iranian people really do believe the Americans are trying to manipulate foreign powers.The CIA and president Eisenhower literally orchestrated a coup to overthrow the Iranian government in control back then , and that was only 50 years ago .
Plenty of Iranians lived through that and remember it well .
Most of us Americans have completely forgotten about the Iran conflict .
That does n't mean we 're at fault , but that our politicians ( specifically the Republicans ) should go back and pick up a history book before loudmouthing off about how we need to be messing around in Iran.The CIA has a long history of messing around in Iran : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA \ _activities \ _in \ _the \ _Near \ _East , \ _North \ _Africa , \ _South \ _and \ _Southwest \ _Asia # Middle \ _East [ wikipedia.org ] Oh yeah... and Bush called them part of the Axis of Evil [ wikipedia.org ] .
That probably did n't help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>are the iranian people that deluded (or rather: the iranian government thinks so lowly of their own people) that anyone would actually believe this massive popular uprising is actually just manipulation by foreign powers?
Yes, I think basically that because of historical reasons like Operation Ajax some Iranian people really do believe the Americans are trying to manipulate foreign powers.The CIA and president Eisenhower literally orchestrated a coup to overthrow the Iranian government in control back then, and that was only 50 years ago.
Plenty of Iranians lived through that and remember it well.
Most of us Americans have completely forgotten about the Iran conflict.
That doesn't mean we're at fault, but that our politicians (specifically the Republicans) should go back and pick up a history book before loudmouthing off about how we need to be messing around in Iran.The CIA has a long history of messing around in Iran:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA\_activities\_in\_the\_Near\_East,\_North\_Africa,\_South\_and\_Southwest\_Asia#Middle\_East [wikipedia.org] Oh yeah... and Bush called them part of the Axis of Evil [wikipedia.org].
That probably didn't help.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28439147</id>
	<title>Don't Ask, Don't Tell</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245773040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Iran is just initiating their new program of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'. That followed their recent successful program of 'Don't Count'. They'll explain later that all those demonstrations were 'victory' celebrations for Ahmadinjad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Iran is just initiating their new program of 'Do n't Ask , Do n't Tell' .
That followed their recent successful program of 'Do n't Count' .
They 'll explain later that all those demonstrations were 'victory ' celebrations for Ahmadinjad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Iran is just initiating their new program of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'.
That followed their recent successful program of 'Don't Count'.
They'll explain later that all those demonstrations were 'victory' celebrations for Ahmadinjad.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28431785</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>DigiShaman</author>
	<datestamp>1245675600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The fog of war?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The fog of war ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fog of war?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422107</id>
	<title>Hmmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe sand niggers really are worse than Jews?</p><p>At the very least, sand nigger government is a shitty as their false 'prophet' Mohammad. Pestilence and thirst be upon his violent and oppressive people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe sand niggers really are worse than Jews ? At the very least , sand nigger government is a shitty as their false 'prophet ' Mohammad .
Pestilence and thirst be upon his violent and oppressive people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe sand niggers really are worse than Jews?At the very least, sand nigger government is a shitty as their false 'prophet' Mohammad.
Pestilence and thirst be upon his violent and oppressive people.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28426525</id>
	<title>you're a dumbass</title>
	<author>Vicsun</author>
	<datestamp>1245700680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your analogy is flawed. A CEO is responsible to his shareholders and can be replaced if he does a bad job. This is more analogous to a democracy, where, in theory a leader doing a bad job can be voted out and replaced. A CEO who was such by birthright, had absolute power and held no responsibility to anyone other than himself would very likely be worse than a CEO responsible to shareholders, like a leader responsible to the people would be better than one not responsible to anyone.</p><p>Benevolent dictators are not unheard of, but are definitely in the minority.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your analogy is flawed .
A CEO is responsible to his shareholders and can be replaced if he does a bad job .
This is more analogous to a democracy , where , in theory a leader doing a bad job can be voted out and replaced .
A CEO who was such by birthright , had absolute power and held no responsibility to anyone other than himself would very likely be worse than a CEO responsible to shareholders , like a leader responsible to the people would be better than one not responsible to anyone.Benevolent dictators are not unheard of , but are definitely in the minority .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your analogy is flawed.
A CEO is responsible to his shareholders and can be replaced if he does a bad job.
This is more analogous to a democracy, where, in theory a leader doing a bad job can be voted out and replaced.
A CEO who was such by birthright, had absolute power and held no responsibility to anyone other than himself would very likely be worse than a CEO responsible to shareholders, like a leader responsible to the people would be better than one not responsible to anyone.Benevolent dictators are not unheard of, but are definitely in the minority.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28446529</id>
	<title>Re:dictatorships, cartels, democracy</title>
	<author>alexo</author>
	<datestamp>1245756720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>When you have a good dictator, things are generally pretty<br>good. The trick is to avoid the bad dictator.</p></div></blockquote><p>What is the incentive for a "good dictator" to remain good?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When you have a good dictator , things are generally prettygood .
The trick is to avoid the bad dictator.What is the incentive for a " good dictator " to remain good ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you have a good dictator, things are generally prettygood.
The trick is to avoid the bad dictator.What is the incentive for a "good dictator" to remain good?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424757</id>
	<title>How can you be sure?</title>
	<author>fishbowl</author>
	<datestamp>1245694320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Otherwise reasonable people take it on faith that the Iranian election was rigged.</p><p>The evidence that persuades them is the idea that six thousand poll workers cannot count forty million ballots in twelve hours, together with the understanding that one unscientific pre-election survey predicted different results.</p><p>I think it is at least equally plausible that the election was fair, and that Mousavi knew he was losing and switched his goal to creating the civil unrest that we see today.  It is much easier to fake a telephone survey than to fake a national election.</p><p>And why are people so ready to believe the count was impossible?  They didn't wait until the ballots were collected, they counted them as they were cast, in a very efficient distributed effort.  The counting didn't take much longer than the polling, and thousands of people contributed to the task.</p><p>Personally, the whole religious and authoritarian nature of the Iranian government offends me but I don't think this election is really the problem.  I don't even understand why so many people are ready to believe the election was rigged just based on biased opinions.  The fact that the Iranian government is willing to kill protesters and jail journalists and so forth is a separate issue.  That is a situation that transcends the effects of a presidential election no matter who "wins."</p><p>Someone needs to prove, to a strong standard of evidence, that the vote count was rigged.  I'll be right on board if you do.  But I can't be persuaded by "It had to have been a sham!  Iran is corrupt as hell!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Otherwise reasonable people take it on faith that the Iranian election was rigged.The evidence that persuades them is the idea that six thousand poll workers can not count forty million ballots in twelve hours , together with the understanding that one unscientific pre-election survey predicted different results.I think it is at least equally plausible that the election was fair , and that Mousavi knew he was losing and switched his goal to creating the civil unrest that we see today .
It is much easier to fake a telephone survey than to fake a national election.And why are people so ready to believe the count was impossible ?
They did n't wait until the ballots were collected , they counted them as they were cast , in a very efficient distributed effort .
The counting did n't take much longer than the polling , and thousands of people contributed to the task.Personally , the whole religious and authoritarian nature of the Iranian government offends me but I do n't think this election is really the problem .
I do n't even understand why so many people are ready to believe the election was rigged just based on biased opinions .
The fact that the Iranian government is willing to kill protesters and jail journalists and so forth is a separate issue .
That is a situation that transcends the effects of a presidential election no matter who " wins .
" Someone needs to prove , to a strong standard of evidence , that the vote count was rigged .
I 'll be right on board if you do .
But I ca n't be persuaded by " It had to have been a sham !
Iran is corrupt as hell !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Otherwise reasonable people take it on faith that the Iranian election was rigged.The evidence that persuades them is the idea that six thousand poll workers cannot count forty million ballots in twelve hours, together with the understanding that one unscientific pre-election survey predicted different results.I think it is at least equally plausible that the election was fair, and that Mousavi knew he was losing and switched his goal to creating the civil unrest that we see today.
It is much easier to fake a telephone survey than to fake a national election.And why are people so ready to believe the count was impossible?
They didn't wait until the ballots were collected, they counted them as they were cast, in a very efficient distributed effort.
The counting didn't take much longer than the polling, and thousands of people contributed to the task.Personally, the whole religious and authoritarian nature of the Iranian government offends me but I don't think this election is really the problem.
I don't even understand why so many people are ready to believe the election was rigged just based on biased opinions.
The fact that the Iranian government is willing to kill protesters and jail journalists and so forth is a separate issue.
That is a situation that transcends the effects of a presidential election no matter who "wins.
"Someone needs to prove, to a strong standard of evidence, that the vote count was rigged.
I'll be right on board if you do.
But I can't be persuaded by "It had to have been a sham!
Iran is corrupt as hell!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28425605</id>
	<title>Deja vu</title>
	<author>grandpa-geek</author>
	<datestamp>1245697140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not a twitterer.  But when I read the suggestion that people provide cover for the Iranian protesters by setting their twitter to reflect a location in Tehran, one quotation popped into mind:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Ich bin ein Berliner" (John F. Kennedy)</p><p>The situation is a little different.  Berlin was a free enclave behind the Iron Curtain.  Freedom is only a hope in the minds of the Iranian protesters.</p><p>Setting twitter to Tehran (and the appropriate time zone) is more than a technical step someone can do.  It is a mark of solidarity with oppressed people fighting for freedom.</p><p>I join in urging all twitterers to do it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not a twitterer .
But when I read the suggestion that people provide cover for the Iranian protesters by setting their twitter to reflect a location in Tehran , one quotation popped into mind :                 " Ich bin ein Berliner " ( John F. Kennedy ) The situation is a little different .
Berlin was a free enclave behind the Iron Curtain .
Freedom is only a hope in the minds of the Iranian protesters.Setting twitter to Tehran ( and the appropriate time zone ) is more than a technical step someone can do .
It is a mark of solidarity with oppressed people fighting for freedom.I join in urging all twitterers to do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not a twitterer.
But when I read the suggestion that people provide cover for the Iranian protesters by setting their twitter to reflect a location in Tehran, one quotation popped into mind:
                "Ich bin ein Berliner" (John F. Kennedy)The situation is a little different.
Berlin was a free enclave behind the Iron Curtain.
Freedom is only a hope in the minds of the Iranian protesters.Setting twitter to Tehran (and the appropriate time zone) is more than a technical step someone can do.
It is a mark of solidarity with oppressed people fighting for freedom.I join in urging all twitterers to do it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424811</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245694500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It confirms that the iranian people are much more courageous in the face of electoral fraud than the USA people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It confirms that the iranian people are much more courageous in the face of electoral fraud than the USA people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It confirms that the iranian people are much more courageous in the face of electoral fraud than the USA people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422593</id>
	<title>Iran will be interesting to watch...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245686940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The next decade or two will be very interesting to watch. What you have is an aging hard-line population and a younger generation who wants more freedom. What we're doing in Iraq by force may happen naturally in Iran in the near future. Who knows, maybe having Iraq for a neighbor has had something to do with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The next decade or two will be very interesting to watch .
What you have is an aging hard-line population and a younger generation who wants more freedom .
What we 're doing in Iraq by force may happen naturally in Iran in the near future .
Who knows , maybe having Iraq for a neighbor has had something to do with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The next decade or two will be very interesting to watch.
What you have is an aging hard-line population and a younger generation who wants more freedom.
What we're doing in Iraq by force may happen naturally in Iran in the near future.
Who knows, maybe having Iraq for a neighbor has had something to do with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28425831</id>
	<title>Re:Standing up</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245698100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>governement has to learn to respect the people they govern</i></p><p>I don't believe it's possible for a person who holds actual power (a special right to employ coercion over others) to <i>respect</i> the people they hold power over. Let's think about the reality of the relationship between the power holder and the subject. If the power holder actually respected the subject as an equal human being, then he wouldn't want power in the first place or anything to do with a special right to employ coercion over others.</p><p>On the contrary, the reason those who desire power strive to achieve power is precisely because they <i>do not</i> respect the people they intend to employ coercion over.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>governement has to learn to respect the people they governI do n't believe it 's possible for a person who holds actual power ( a special right to employ coercion over others ) to respect the people they hold power over .
Let 's think about the reality of the relationship between the power holder and the subject .
If the power holder actually respected the subject as an equal human being , then he would n't want power in the first place or anything to do with a special right to employ coercion over others.On the contrary , the reason those who desire power strive to achieve power is precisely because they do not respect the people they intend to employ coercion over .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>governement has to learn to respect the people they governI don't believe it's possible for a person who holds actual power (a special right to employ coercion over others) to respect the people they hold power over.
Let's think about the reality of the relationship between the power holder and the subject.
If the power holder actually respected the subject as an equal human being, then he wouldn't want power in the first place or anything to do with a special right to employ coercion over others.On the contrary, the reason those who desire power strive to achieve power is precisely because they do not respect the people they intend to employ coercion over.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422135</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422415</id>
	<title>i understand the historical reasons</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1245686340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>why iran hates great britain</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Great\_Game" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Great\_Game</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>i understand why iran hates the usa</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_ajax" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_ajax</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>but what the hell: it's not the colonial era and its not the cold war anymore</p><p>are the iranian people that deluded (or rather: the iranian government thinks so lowly of their own people) that anyone would actually believe this massive popular uprising is actually just manipulation by foreign powers?</p><p>propaganda only goes so far, then its just downright laughable paranoid schizophrenia</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>why iran hates great britainhttp : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The \ _Great \ _Game [ wikipedia.org ] i understand why iran hates the usahttp : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation \ _ajax [ wikipedia.org ] but what the hell : it 's not the colonial era and its not the cold war anymoreare the iranian people that deluded ( or rather : the iranian government thinks so lowly of their own people ) that anyone would actually believe this massive popular uprising is actually just manipulation by foreign powers ? propaganda only goes so far , then its just downright laughable paranoid schizophrenia</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why iran hates great britainhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Great\_Game [wikipedia.org]i understand why iran hates the usahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_ajax [wikipedia.org]but what the hell: it's not the colonial era and its not the cold war anymoreare the iranian people that deluded (or rather: the iranian government thinks so lowly of their own people) that anyone would actually believe this massive popular uprising is actually just manipulation by foreign powers?propaganda only goes so far, then its just downright laughable paranoid schizophrenia</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422807</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>SatanicPuppy</author>
	<datestamp>1245687660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think anyone <em>inside</em> Iran knows the truth either. You may not "trust journalism" whatever that means, but our journalism, with all of its flaws is far better at disseminating accurate information than anything they have inside Iran at the best of times, and these aren't the best of times.</p><p>The people in Iran are hearing little besides rumor, propaganda, and sermons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think anyone inside Iran knows the truth either .
You may not " trust journalism " whatever that means , but our journalism , with all of its flaws is far better at disseminating accurate information than anything they have inside Iran at the best of times , and these are n't the best of times.The people in Iran are hearing little besides rumor , propaganda , and sermons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think anyone inside Iran knows the truth either.
You may not "trust journalism" whatever that means, but our journalism, with all of its flaws is far better at disseminating accurate information than anything they have inside Iran at the best of times, and these aren't the best of times.The people in Iran are hearing little besides rumor, propaganda, and sermons.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28425767</id>
	<title>Re:American Hypocrasy</title>
	<author>VinB</author>
	<datestamp>1245697800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...says Anonymous Coward. How fitting.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...says Anonymous Coward .
How fitting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...says Anonymous Coward.
How fitting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422731</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28430023</id>
	<title>Re:hey</title>
	<author>Doomdark</author>
	<datestamp>1245669240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>
Now, here's a pop quiz. If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM, Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft... Who would you cheer for?
</i>
<p>
Yes.
</p><p>
Next question?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now , here 's a pop quiz .
If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM , Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft... Who would you cheer for ?
Yes . Next question ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Now, here's a pop quiz.
If the RIAA and MPAA sued Microsoft and Oracle over breaching the copyright of their DRM, Richard Stallman testified on behalf of the RIAA and Theo de Raadt spoke in favour of Microsoft... Who would you cheer for?
Yes.

Next question?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422397</id>
	<title>Sorry</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245686280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Ahmedinejad fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of an Iranian policeman (a Basiji with an AK-47) for about 20 minutes now while he attempts to beat a confession out of a protestor. 20 minutes. At home, in my local police department with a bunch of redneck cops, who by all standards should be a lot slower than this Basiji, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.</p><p>In addition, during this interrogation, Facebook will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Twitter is straining to keep up as I type this.</p><p>I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working with various Basiji, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Basiji that has run down a protestor in a car faster than his American counterpart, despite their access to cheaper oil. My Andy Griffith with arthritis in both knees runs faster than this 20 year-old militiaman on heroin at times. From a totalitarian standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that Iran is a superior country.</p><p>Iran addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use Ahmedinejad over other faster, cheaper, more stable dictators.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't want to start a holy war here , but what is the deal with you Ahmedinejad fanatics ?
I 've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of an Iranian policeman ( a Basiji with an AK-47 ) for about 20 minutes now while he attempts to beat a confession out of a protestor .
20 minutes .
At home , in my local police department with a bunch of redneck cops , who by all standards should be a lot slower than this Basiji , the same operation would take about 2 minutes .
If that.In addition , during this interrogation , Facebook will not work .
And everything else has ground to a halt .
Even Twitter is straining to keep up as I type this.I wo n't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I 've encountered while working with various Basiji , but suffice it to say there have been many , not the least of which is I 've never seen a Basiji that has run down a protestor in a car faster than his American counterpart , despite their access to cheaper oil .
My Andy Griffith with arthritis in both knees runs faster than this 20 year-old militiaman on heroin at times .
From a totalitarian standpoint , I do n't get how people can claim that Iran is a superior country.Iran addicts , flame me if you 'd like , but I 'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use Ahmedinejad over other faster , cheaper , more stable dictators .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Ahmedinejad fanatics?
I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of an Iranian policeman (a Basiji with an AK-47) for about 20 minutes now while he attempts to beat a confession out of a protestor.
20 minutes.
At home, in my local police department with a bunch of redneck cops, who by all standards should be a lot slower than this Basiji, the same operation would take about 2 minutes.
If that.In addition, during this interrogation, Facebook will not work.
And everything else has ground to a halt.
Even Twitter is straining to keep up as I type this.I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working with various Basiji, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Basiji that has run down a protestor in a car faster than his American counterpart, despite their access to cheaper oil.
My Andy Griffith with arthritis in both knees runs faster than this 20 year-old militiaman on heroin at times.
From a totalitarian standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that Iran is a superior country.Iran addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use Ahmedinejad over other faster, cheaper, more stable dictators.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422579</id>
	<title>Re:Surprised</title>
	<author>CrashPoint</author>
	<datestamp>1245686880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I don't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Hell, I doubt many people <i>inside</i> Iran know the truth.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth .
Hell , I doubt many people inside Iran know the truth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think anyone outside of Iran knows the truth.
Hell, I doubt many people inside Iran know the truth.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28424527</id>
	<title>Re:Foreign Influence in Iran Protests is Real</title>
	<author>GooberToo</author>
	<datestamp>1245693540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>it is well known that the CIA and other western powers are spending millions stirring up trouble in Iran</i></p><p>As opposed to the tens of millions Iran spends in destabilizing Afghanistan and Iraq? A huge chuck of servicemen have been killed by bombs paid for Iran. A huge chuck of civilians have been killed by bullets paid for by Iran. Anything the US can do to force Iran to refocus efforts outside of Iraq and Afghanistan means improved stability for Iraq and Afghanistan.</p><p><i>What many of you also fail to understand is that while Musavi is less fundamentalist than Ahmadinejad, his views are hardly one of support for "human rights" and free society. It is sorta like the difference between Republicans and Democrats - a few differences on paper but little substantial difference.</i></p><p>Actually, the difference is much larger. While Musavi is certainly no friend of the US is the widely regarded as far more progressive than the incumbent. The result of Musavi is likely to mean additional civil freedoms, a broader western exposure (which need not be the US), and create the window of more progressive freedoms in a generation. You are right in that one over the other is certainly not going to result in night and day differences and certainly not immediate changes. On the other hand, it opens the door for vast improvements over the next twenty years and more immediately, can make a huge difference with nuclear weapon concerns and/or concessions.</p><p>Said another way, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the contrasting differences.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it is well known that the CIA and other western powers are spending millions stirring up trouble in IranAs opposed to the tens of millions Iran spends in destabilizing Afghanistan and Iraq ?
A huge chuck of servicemen have been killed by bombs paid for Iran .
A huge chuck of civilians have been killed by bullets paid for by Iran .
Anything the US can do to force Iran to refocus efforts outside of Iraq and Afghanistan means improved stability for Iraq and Afghanistan.What many of you also fail to understand is that while Musavi is less fundamentalist than Ahmadinejad , his views are hardly one of support for " human rights " and free society .
It is sorta like the difference between Republicans and Democrats - a few differences on paper but little substantial difference.Actually , the difference is much larger .
While Musavi is certainly no friend of the US is the widely regarded as far more progressive than the incumbent .
The result of Musavi is likely to mean additional civil freedoms , a broader western exposure ( which need not be the US ) , and create the window of more progressive freedoms in a generation .
You are right in that one over the other is certainly not going to result in night and day differences and certainly not immediate changes .
On the other hand , it opens the door for vast improvements over the next twenty years and more immediately , can make a huge difference with nuclear weapon concerns and/or concessions.Said another way , I would n't be so quick to dismiss the contrasting differences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it is well known that the CIA and other western powers are spending millions stirring up trouble in IranAs opposed to the tens of millions Iran spends in destabilizing Afghanistan and Iraq?
A huge chuck of servicemen have been killed by bombs paid for Iran.
A huge chuck of civilians have been killed by bullets paid for by Iran.
Anything the US can do to force Iran to refocus efforts outside of Iraq and Afghanistan means improved stability for Iraq and Afghanistan.What many of you also fail to understand is that while Musavi is less fundamentalist than Ahmadinejad, his views are hardly one of support for "human rights" and free society.
It is sorta like the difference between Republicans and Democrats - a few differences on paper but little substantial difference.Actually, the difference is much larger.
While Musavi is certainly no friend of the US is the widely regarded as far more progressive than the incumbent.
The result of Musavi is likely to mean additional civil freedoms, a broader western exposure (which need not be the US), and create the window of more progressive freedoms in a generation.
You are right in that one over the other is certainly not going to result in night and day differences and certainly not immediate changes.
On the other hand, it opens the door for vast improvements over the next twenty years and more immediately, can make a huge difference with nuclear weapon concerns and/or concessions.Said another way, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the contrasting differences.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422215</id>
	<title>Re:Standing up</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Damn straight! These folks descend from the Persians, I know they have what it takes to hold their own. If other countries step in, it will only lead to propaganda. At this point, all we can do is watch and cheer. May the force be with you, Iranians.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Damn straight !
These folks descend from the Persians , I know they have what it takes to hold their own .
If other countries step in , it will only lead to propaganda .
At this point , all we can do is watch and cheer .
May the force be with you , Iranians .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damn straight!
These folks descend from the Persians, I know they have what it takes to hold their own.
If other countries step in, it will only lead to propaganda.
At this point, all we can do is watch and cheer.
May the force be with you, Iranians.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422135</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28428497</id>
	<title>Re:you have it backwards</title>
	<author>StikyPad</author>
	<datestamp>1245663840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sort of funny, since at least one of the sites you linked to is expressly telling the Iranian government's version of events:</p><p><a href="http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90854/6683862.html" title="people.com.cn">http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90854/6683862.html</a> [people.com.cn]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sort of funny , since at least one of the sites you linked to is expressly telling the Iranian government 's version of events : http : //english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90854/6683862.html [ people.com.cn ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sort of funny, since at least one of the sites you linked to is expressly telling the Iranian government's version of events:http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90854/6683862.html [people.com.cn]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422649</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28427601</id>
	<title>Re:hey</title>
	<author>HertzaHaeon</author>
	<datestamp>1245703920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You just exploded a few Slashdot heads with that conundrum, I think.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You just exploded a few Slashdot heads with that conundrum , I think .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You just exploded a few Slashdot heads with that conundrum, I think.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28430093</id>
	<title>Re:i understand the historical reasons</title>
	<author>Doomdark</author>
	<datestamp>1245669540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>CNN was great last night, some Iranian spokesperson having a press conference declaring that...
</i>
<p>
This must be person known as "Tehran Ted", cousin-twice-removed of the one and only <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad\_Bob" title="wikipedia.org">"Baghdad Bob"</a> [wikipedia.org]....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>CNN was great last night , some Iranian spokesperson having a press conference declaring that.. . This must be person known as " Tehran Ted " , cousin-twice-removed of the one and only " Baghdad Bob " [ wikipedia.org ] ... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CNN was great last night, some Iranian spokesperson having a press conference declaring that...


This must be person known as "Tehran Ted", cousin-twice-removed of the one and only "Baghdad Bob" [wikipedia.org]....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423041</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_22_1347228_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422013
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422197
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28423175
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_22_1347228_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422405
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422953
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_22_1347228_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422711
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28425983
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_22_1347228_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28422731
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_22_1347228.28425767
</commentlist>
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