<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_21_2359255</id>
	<title>SSN Required To Buy Palm Pre</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1245575100000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>UltraOne writes <i>"Sprint requires your Social Security number in order to run a credit check before they will allow you to open an account, according to a store manager in Silver Spring, MD. Since Sprint is the exclusive carrier for the <a href="http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre/">Palm Pre</a>, if you are not willing to provide an SSN, you can't buy this product.
I believe a full credit check for this level of consumer purchase is a clear example of overkill. I have supplied an SSN when buying a house and renting an apartment, but never for any other consumer purchase. I have purchased my cars with cash so far, so I don't have first-hand experience, but a car loan also seems to be an appropriate place to require an SSN for a credit check. At the very least, Sprint should have an alternative for people who don't want to give out their SSN. I also found the entire experience a powerful argument against <a href="http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/06/19/2226239/FCC-To-Probe-Exclusive-Mobile-Deals">exclusive license agreements</a>."</i> Read below for details of this reader's experience.</htmltext>
<tokenext>UltraOne writes " Sprint requires your Social Security number in order to run a credit check before they will allow you to open an account , according to a store manager in Silver Spring , MD .
Since Sprint is the exclusive carrier for the Palm Pre , if you are not willing to provide an SSN , you ca n't buy this product .
I believe a full credit check for this level of consumer purchase is a clear example of overkill .
I have supplied an SSN when buying a house and renting an apartment , but never for any other consumer purchase .
I have purchased my cars with cash so far , so I do n't have first-hand experience , but a car loan also seems to be an appropriate place to require an SSN for a credit check .
At the very least , Sprint should have an alternative for people who do n't want to give out their SSN .
I also found the entire experience a powerful argument against exclusive license agreements .
" Read below for details of this reader 's experience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>UltraOne writes "Sprint requires your Social Security number in order to run a credit check before they will allow you to open an account, according to a store manager in Silver Spring, MD.
Since Sprint is the exclusive carrier for the Palm Pre, if you are not willing to provide an SSN, you can't buy this product.
I believe a full credit check for this level of consumer purchase is a clear example of overkill.
I have supplied an SSN when buying a house and renting an apartment, but never for any other consumer purchase.
I have purchased my cars with cash so far, so I don't have first-hand experience, but a car loan also seems to be an appropriate place to require an SSN for a credit check.
At the very least, Sprint should have an alternative for people who don't want to give out their SSN.
I also found the entire experience a powerful argument against exclusive license agreements.
" Read below for details of this reader's experience.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420107</id>
	<title>Credit Raitings</title>
	<author>lionchild</author>
	<datestamp>1245677400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..here's a silly question, only because it's coming more and more common:  What if you don't have a credit score, because you've been paying cash for things for so long?  I'm sure they'll have far more folks who have bad credit and wouldn't qualify, but<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...what if you've gotten on the 'save up and pay cash' plan and aren't in debt, so you don't have a  credit score?  You can't buy a Palm Pre?</p><p>I find it very interesting that Sprint is putting out a phone that the average millionare can't buy, because they don't have a credit score anymore, (because they've been paying cash for things for that long.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , ..here 's a silly question , only because it 's coming more and more common : What if you do n't have a credit score , because you 've been paying cash for things for so long ?
I 'm sure they 'll have far more folks who have bad credit and would n't qualify , but ...what if you 've gotten on the 'save up and pay cash ' plan and are n't in debt , so you do n't have a credit score ?
You ca n't buy a Palm Pre ? I find it very interesting that Sprint is putting out a phone that the average millionare ca n't buy , because they do n't have a credit score anymore , ( because they 've been paying cash for things for that long .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, ..here's a silly question, only because it's coming more and more common:  What if you don't have a credit score, because you've been paying cash for things for so long?
I'm sure they'll have far more folks who have bad credit and wouldn't qualify, but ...what if you've gotten on the 'save up and pay cash' plan and aren't in debt, so you don't have a  credit score?
You can't buy a Palm Pre?I find it very interesting that Sprint is putting out a phone that the average millionare can't buy, because they don't have a credit score anymore, (because they've been paying cash for things for that long.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421829</id>
	<title>Re:"offered no acceptable options" vs "refused to"</title>
	<author>SuiteSisterMary</author>
	<datestamp>1245684480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Go back and reread the submission.  The purchaser offered to pay the large deposit, or pre-pay the contract, in lieu of giving an SSN, and the seller refused.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Go back and reread the submission .
The purchaser offered to pay the large deposit , or pre-pay the contract , in lieu of giving an SSN , and the seller refused .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Go back and reread the submission.
The purchaser offered to pay the large deposit, or pre-pay the contract, in lieu of giving an SSN, and the seller refused.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28455241</id>
	<title>Be thankful</title>
	<author>Virtucon</author>
	<datestamp>1245868500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They didn't ask if you were sponge-worthy..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They did n't ask if you were sponge-worthy. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They didn't ask if you were sponge-worthy..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419049</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245669060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's no "perhaps" about it. The SSN is required for the service contract.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no " perhaps " about it .
The SSN is required for the service contract .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no "perhaps" about it.
The SSN is required for the service contract.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418677</id>
	<title>Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245665820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the SSN is there to verify credit, and only to do this, then a full up-front payment should utterly negate this need. If there's no provision locally for doing this, perhaps writing a letter to regional management will help out. It's likely the staff of your local are not in a position to make decisions about how to accept payment.<p>

On the other hand, perhaps mobile contracts require a SSN these days in order that you can more easily be monitored by law enforcement. In which case, you're SOL till they're on sale SIM-free.</p><p>

It's pretty likely they'll be unlockable soon enough, and then you'll see them on ebay. You're obviously willing to pay a premium, so keep your eyes open.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the SSN is there to verify credit , and only to do this , then a full up-front payment should utterly negate this need .
If there 's no provision locally for doing this , perhaps writing a letter to regional management will help out .
It 's likely the staff of your local are not in a position to make decisions about how to accept payment .
On the other hand , perhaps mobile contracts require a SSN these days in order that you can more easily be monitored by law enforcement .
In which case , you 're SOL till they 're on sale SIM-free .
It 's pretty likely they 'll be unlockable soon enough , and then you 'll see them on ebay .
You 're obviously willing to pay a premium , so keep your eyes open .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the SSN is there to verify credit, and only to do this, then a full up-front payment should utterly negate this need.
If there's no provision locally for doing this, perhaps writing a letter to regional management will help out.
It's likely the staff of your local are not in a position to make decisions about how to accept payment.
On the other hand, perhaps mobile contracts require a SSN these days in order that you can more easily be monitored by law enforcement.
In which case, you're SOL till they're on sale SIM-free.
It's pretty likely they'll be unlockable soon enough, and then you'll see them on ebay.
You're obviously willing to pay a premium, so keep your eyes open.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420265</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245678480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He's not scannable...?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He 's not scannable... ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He's not scannable...?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418813</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420427</id>
	<title>Welcome to the Real World: Credit Ratings</title>
	<author>Adam Jorgensen</author>
	<datestamp>1245679320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Erm, I'm not quite sure what the issue with this is, really. Here in South Africa credit checks are comulsorey prior to the approval of a cellular contract.
One is not required to provide a SSN, but one does provide banking details that are then checked, along with incomes and debts. There are also a variety
of contracts, aimed from the very poor to the very rich.

This is no big deal.

In fact, it's actually for your own damn protection.

Extending people more credit than they can reliably pay back is part of the current financial crisis.

So don't gripe when someone wants to check you can actually handle X amount of credit before extending it to you rather
than just giving you the keys to a yacht and breaking your knees later.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Erm , I 'm not quite sure what the issue with this is , really .
Here in South Africa credit checks are comulsorey prior to the approval of a cellular contract .
One is not required to provide a SSN , but one does provide banking details that are then checked , along with incomes and debts .
There are also a variety of contracts , aimed from the very poor to the very rich .
This is no big deal .
In fact , it 's actually for your own damn protection .
Extending people more credit than they can reliably pay back is part of the current financial crisis .
So do n't gripe when someone wants to check you can actually handle X amount of credit before extending it to you rather than just giving you the keys to a yacht and breaking your knees later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Erm, I'm not quite sure what the issue with this is, really.
Here in South Africa credit checks are comulsorey prior to the approval of a cellular contract.
One is not required to provide a SSN, but one does provide banking details that are then checked, along with incomes and debts.
There are also a variety
of contracts, aimed from the very poor to the very rich.
This is no big deal.
In fact, it's actually for your own damn protection.
Extending people more credit than they can reliably pay back is part of the current financial crisis.
So don't gripe when someone wants to check you can actually handle X amount of credit before extending it to you rather
than just giving you the keys to a yacht and breaking your knees later.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28425353</id>
	<title>Re:"offered no acceptable options" vs "refused to"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245696300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You misread that. The poster DID offer to do any of the three.</p><p>The unacceptable part was Sprint refusing to let the poster use any of those.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I offered several other options, including a check on my credit card limit, which is an order of magnitude greater than the combined price of the phone and two-year contract; placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500); or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot. None of these was acceptable options, so Sprint lost the sale.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You misread that .
The poster DID offer to do any of the three.The unacceptable part was Sprint refusing to let the poster use any of those.I offered several other options , including a check on my credit card limit , which is an order of magnitude greater than the combined price of the phone and two-year contract ; placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ( $ 500 ) ; or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot .
None of these was acceptable options , so Sprint lost the sale .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You misread that.
The poster DID offer to do any of the three.The unacceptable part was Sprint refusing to let the poster use any of those.I offered several other options, including a check on my credit card limit, which is an order of magnitude greater than the combined price of the phone and two-year contract; placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500); or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot.
None of these was acceptable options, so Sprint lost the sale.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420815</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>m.ducharme</author>
	<datestamp>1245681000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, a credit card is perfectly adequate for conducting a credit check, and has the added bonus of providing the company with a way to recover some of their losses if you stop paying your bills. A SSN is totally unnecessary to obtain a credit check. I worked for Radio Shack in Ontario a few years ago, selling Rogers cell service among other things, and at no time did we require a SIN for a credit check. Yes, I'm in Canada and not the US, but it's generally the same credit agencies, so their requirements should be the same in the US as in Canada.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , a credit card is perfectly adequate for conducting a credit check , and has the added bonus of providing the company with a way to recover some of their losses if you stop paying your bills .
A SSN is totally unnecessary to obtain a credit check .
I worked for Radio Shack in Ontario a few years ago , selling Rogers cell service among other things , and at no time did we require a SIN for a credit check .
Yes , I 'm in Canada and not the US , but it 's generally the same credit agencies , so their requirements should be the same in the US as in Canada .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, a credit card is perfectly adequate for conducting a credit check, and has the added bonus of providing the company with a way to recover some of their losses if you stop paying your bills.
A SSN is totally unnecessary to obtain a credit check.
I worked for Radio Shack in Ontario a few years ago, selling Rogers cell service among other things, and at no time did we require a SIN for a credit check.
Yes, I'm in Canada and not the US, but it's generally the same credit agencies, so their requirements should be the same in the US as in Canada.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418973</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421995</id>
	<title>Up-front payment</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I paid a refundable $500 per-line up-front fee to T-mobile to sign up for cell service before I had an SSN, and they accepted this just fine..</p><p>Maybe other providers have a similar option? They really don't care about your SSN - what they care about is your credit, as they are giving you a $X-hundred device for a minimal up-front payment, on the assumption that you will pay for it as part of your cellphone bill over the next 1-2 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I paid a refundable $ 500 per-line up-front fee to T-mobile to sign up for cell service before I had an SSN , and they accepted this just fine..Maybe other providers have a similar option ?
They really do n't care about your SSN - what they care about is your credit , as they are giving you a $ X-hundred device for a minimal up-front payment , on the assumption that you will pay for it as part of your cellphone bill over the next 1-2 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I paid a refundable $500 per-line up-front fee to T-mobile to sign up for cell service before I had an SSN, and they accepted this just fine..Maybe other providers have a similar option?
They really don't care about your SSN - what they care about is your credit, as they are giving you a $X-hundred device for a minimal up-front payment, on the assumption that you will pay for it as part of your cellphone bill over the next 1-2 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28429655</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245667740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Employee of the Infernal Revenue Service here. No, you do not have to have a SSN to pay taxes. The option is to apply for an ITIN, (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number), which is used mostly by foreign workers (tech visas) in this country. There are several groups which do not have SSN's , mostly for religious reasons, such as the Amish. SSN's were originally for  for Social Security taxes and benefits, which legal foreign workers can not accumulate, and the Amish won't accept. Income taxes, which have been charged for much longer, were added as an afterthought.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Employee of the Infernal Revenue Service here .
No , you do not have to have a SSN to pay taxes .
The option is to apply for an ITIN , ( Individual Taxpayer Identification Number ) , which is used mostly by foreign workers ( tech visas ) in this country .
There are several groups which do not have SSN 's , mostly for religious reasons , such as the Amish .
SSN 's were originally for for Social Security taxes and benefits , which legal foreign workers can not accumulate , and the Amish wo n't accept .
Income taxes , which have been charged for much longer , were added as an afterthought .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Employee of the Infernal Revenue Service here.
No, you do not have to have a SSN to pay taxes.
The option is to apply for an ITIN, (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number), which is used mostly by foreign workers (tech visas) in this country.
There are several groups which do not have SSN's , mostly for religious reasons, such as the Amish.
SSN's were originally for  for Social Security taxes and benefits, which legal foreign workers can not accumulate, and the Amish won't accept.
Income taxes, which have been charged for much longer, were added as an afterthought.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419431</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419605</id>
	<title>SSN = National ID Number</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245673620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where have YOU been?  Didn't you know that over the past 20 years, the SSN has turned into the National ID Number?  It doesn't matter that there was EXTREME concern that this might happen way back when the SSN was invented, it happened anyway.</p><p>Your right to privacy and anonymous purchasing disappeared a long time ago, so get used to it.  "Credit checks" were just the first step.  After that, it was manipulated for tax purposes.  Then it spread to all kinds of interesting other "must have" situations or they refuse service.  Even several doctor's offices I went to (and no, they weren't running a credit check nor was I on Medicare/Medicaid) HAD to have my SSN.  PROSPECTIVE employers insist they HAVE to have the SSN.  Movie rental places seem to think they HAVE to have your SSN.  It took MANY YEARS of fighting before the citizens in my state FINALLY had the SSN removed as the mandatory driver's license number.</p><p>The package will be nice and complete once the Fed starts to force collection of fingerprints and DNA from everyone; it is coming... Most Americans don't have any understanding about privacy and security. "If you have nothing to hide" and all that, is the typical, brainless, response.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where have YOU been ?
Did n't you know that over the past 20 years , the SSN has turned into the National ID Number ?
It does n't matter that there was EXTREME concern that this might happen way back when the SSN was invented , it happened anyway.Your right to privacy and anonymous purchasing disappeared a long time ago , so get used to it .
" Credit checks " were just the first step .
After that , it was manipulated for tax purposes .
Then it spread to all kinds of interesting other " must have " situations or they refuse service .
Even several doctor 's offices I went to ( and no , they were n't running a credit check nor was I on Medicare/Medicaid ) HAD to have my SSN .
PROSPECTIVE employers insist they HAVE to have the SSN .
Movie rental places seem to think they HAVE to have your SSN .
It took MANY YEARS of fighting before the citizens in my state FINALLY had the SSN removed as the mandatory driver 's license number.The package will be nice and complete once the Fed starts to force collection of fingerprints and DNA from everyone ; it is coming... Most Americans do n't have any understanding about privacy and security .
" If you have nothing to hide " and all that , is the typical , brainless , response .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where have YOU been?
Didn't you know that over the past 20 years, the SSN has turned into the National ID Number?
It doesn't matter that there was EXTREME concern that this might happen way back when the SSN was invented, it happened anyway.Your right to privacy and anonymous purchasing disappeared a long time ago, so get used to it.
"Credit checks" were just the first step.
After that, it was manipulated for tax purposes.
Then it spread to all kinds of interesting other "must have" situations or they refuse service.
Even several doctor's offices I went to (and no, they weren't running a credit check nor was I on Medicare/Medicaid) HAD to have my SSN.
PROSPECTIVE employers insist they HAVE to have the SSN.
Movie rental places seem to think they HAVE to have your SSN.
It took MANY YEARS of fighting before the citizens in my state FINALLY had the SSN removed as the mandatory driver's license number.The package will be nice and complete once the Fed starts to force collection of fingerprints and DNA from everyone; it is coming... Most Americans don't have any understanding about privacy and security.
"If you have nothing to hide" and all that, is the typical, brainless, response.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421833</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>Pig Hogger</author>
	<datestamp>1245684480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <em>Put the tin-foil hats away, folks. Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies, there's &quot;nothing to see here.&quot;</em> </p></div>
</blockquote><p>Sure there is. Your credit history also contains things like your date of birth, and your previous addresses. It&rsquo;s just managerial lazyness that make companies ask for the SSN and nothing else.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Put the tin-foil hats away , folks .
Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies , there 's " nothing to see here .
" Sure there is .
Your credit history also contains things like your date of birth , and your previous addresses .
It    s just managerial lazyness that make companies ask for the SSN and nothing else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Put the tin-foil hats away, folks.
Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies, there's "nothing to see here.
" 
Sure there is.
Your credit history also contains things like your date of birth, and your previous addresses.
It’s just managerial lazyness that make companies ask for the SSN and nothing else.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419023</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420639</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>colin\_young</author>
	<datestamp>1245680220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>An SSN is not required to run a credit check. Ask any of the 3 credit reporting agencies and that's what they'll tell you. Finding a company knows that is a whole other story however.</htmltext>
<tokenext>An SSN is not required to run a credit check .
Ask any of the 3 credit reporting agencies and that 's what they 'll tell you .
Finding a company knows that is a whole other story however .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An SSN is not required to run a credit check.
Ask any of the 3 credit reporting agencies and that's what they'll tell you.
Finding a company knows that is a whole other story however.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418973</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419683</id>
	<title>What planet have you been on?</title>
	<author>HikingStick</author>
	<datestamp>1245674280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've had three carriers over the past twelve years, and a SSN and credit check were part of the agreement every time.  They want your FICO score to determine the statistical likelihood that you will pay on time, pay late, or breach the contract.  Then, if you score too low, they may either deny to provide service to you (as they did for me once many years ago when my credit score was in the crapper), put limitations on your account (e.g., a security deposit), grant you an account, or grant you an account and immediately offer to provide you with <i>x</i> additional phones for other members of your family.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had three carriers over the past twelve years , and a SSN and credit check were part of the agreement every time .
They want your FICO score to determine the statistical likelihood that you will pay on time , pay late , or breach the contract .
Then , if you score too low , they may either deny to provide service to you ( as they did for me once many years ago when my credit score was in the crapper ) , put limitations on your account ( e.g. , a security deposit ) , grant you an account , or grant you an account and immediately offer to provide you with x additional phones for other members of your family .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had three carriers over the past twelve years, and a SSN and credit check were part of the agreement every time.
They want your FICO score to determine the statistical likelihood that you will pay on time, pay late, or breach the contract.
Then, if you score too low, they may either deny to provide service to you (as they did for me once many years ago when my credit score was in the crapper), put limitations on your account (e.g., a security deposit), grant you an account, or grant you an account and immediately offer to provide you with x additional phones for other members of your family.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420995</id>
	<title>Re:Credit Raitings</title>
	<author>ducomputergeek</author>
	<datestamp>1245681660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Generally you have to pay a deposit.  I went through this when I got my iPhone.  I have one credit card and two debit cards.  My car was paid in cash, and I rent an apartment.  It took forever to get approval from AT&amp;T while at the Apple store.  I think the only reason I did was the fact my Credit Card has way to high of credit limit.  Anyway, I checked my credit a couple months later, and it seemed low.  When I asked around, people told me it was low because "I didn't have enough credit".  It was a bit of a WTF moment because I wasn't going out and getting in debt over my head and generally paid cash for most things.  This year I checked my credit score and it was up almost 90 points from last year.  Apparently, due to the economy, the powers that be decided to redo how they calculate that magic number and suddenly my score was 780.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Generally you have to pay a deposit .
I went through this when I got my iPhone .
I have one credit card and two debit cards .
My car was paid in cash , and I rent an apartment .
It took forever to get approval from AT&amp;T while at the Apple store .
I think the only reason I did was the fact my Credit Card has way to high of credit limit .
Anyway , I checked my credit a couple months later , and it seemed low .
When I asked around , people told me it was low because " I did n't have enough credit " .
It was a bit of a WTF moment because I was n't going out and getting in debt over my head and generally paid cash for most things .
This year I checked my credit score and it was up almost 90 points from last year .
Apparently , due to the economy , the powers that be decided to redo how they calculate that magic number and suddenly my score was 780 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Generally you have to pay a deposit.
I went through this when I got my iPhone.
I have one credit card and two debit cards.
My car was paid in cash, and I rent an apartment.
It took forever to get approval from AT&amp;T while at the Apple store.
I think the only reason I did was the fact my Credit Card has way to high of credit limit.
Anyway, I checked my credit a couple months later, and it seemed low.
When I asked around, people told me it was low because "I didn't have enough credit".
It was a bit of a WTF moment because I wasn't going out and getting in debt over my head and generally paid cash for most things.
This year I checked my credit score and it was up almost 90 points from last year.
Apparently, due to the economy, the powers that be decided to redo how they calculate that magic number and suddenly my score was 780.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420107</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419521</id>
	<title>Wireless Credit Checks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245672960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most carriers do not require a SSN to do a credit check. However, if they fail to find credit history without one you would be required to pay a security deposit. Since it tends to be a lot of work or time consuming on the reps side they often tell customers it is required. If you don't want to give it, escalate to a manager or find another store.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most carriers do not require a SSN to do a credit check .
However , if they fail to find credit history without one you would be required to pay a security deposit .
Since it tends to be a lot of work or time consuming on the reps side they often tell customers it is required .
If you do n't want to give it , escalate to a manager or find another store .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most carriers do not require a SSN to do a credit check.
However, if they fail to find credit history without one you would be required to pay a security deposit.
Since it tends to be a lot of work or time consuming on the reps side they often tell customers it is required.
If you don't want to give it, escalate to a manager or find another store.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419233</id>
	<title>Re:NOBODY gets my SSN.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245670560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>while I<b>ANAL</b>N<b>POO</b>TV</p></div><p>Hey man, what you do to your TV is your business.</p><p>(* Yeah, I don't play a lawyer on TV either.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>while IANALNPOOTVHey man , what you do to your TV is your business .
( * Yeah , I do n't play a lawyer on TV either .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>while IANALNPOOTVHey man, what you do to your TV is your business.
(* Yeah, I don't play a lawyer on TV either.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418861</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418883</id>
	<title>Slow news day?</title>
	<author>WillyDavidK</author>
	<datestamp>1245667620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is definitely not something new. All models of the iPhone have required a credit check as well, and this is pretty much standard procedure in the mobile industry. I guess it's a slow news day.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is definitely not something new .
All models of the iPhone have required a credit check as well , and this is pretty much standard procedure in the mobile industry .
I guess it 's a slow news day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is definitely not something new.
All models of the iPhone have required a credit check as well, and this is pretty much standard procedure in the mobile industry.
I guess it's a slow news day.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419869</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245675720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's less about "because you are signing a contract" than it is because they are, in point of fact, extending you credit, in the form of allowing you to rack up usage charges that they will bill you for after the fact. They may not disclose what your credit limit is on that front, but believe me, behind the scenes, that number -- how far into usage charges they will let you get without payment -- has been calculated to the penny and stored in your account info.</p><p>Why do they retain this information? Like any other creditor they know that your credit situation changes, and they will periodically 're-check' your credit to see if their internal number for your credit-worthiness needs to be adjusted up or down as time goes on.</p><p>Put the tin-foil hats away, folks. Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies, there's "nothing to see here."</p></div><p>So you have surrendered to the erosion of personal privacy, personal rights and personal integrity;  I haven't and neither has the author of the post.  You may be one of those willing to trade your rights for convenience.   I too would refuse my Social Security number.</p><p>Social Security - just think about what that was supposed to mean and what it has become to mean.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's less about " because you are signing a contract " than it is because they are , in point of fact , extending you credit , in the form of allowing you to rack up usage charges that they will bill you for after the fact .
They may not disclose what your credit limit is on that front , but believe me , behind the scenes , that number -- how far into usage charges they will let you get without payment -- has been calculated to the penny and stored in your account info.Why do they retain this information ?
Like any other creditor they know that your credit situation changes , and they will periodically 're-check ' your credit to see if their internal number for your credit-worthiness needs to be adjusted up or down as time goes on.Put the tin-foil hats away , folks .
Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies , there 's " nothing to see here .
" So you have surrendered to the erosion of personal privacy , personal rights and personal integrity ; I have n't and neither has the author of the post .
You may be one of those willing to trade your rights for convenience .
I too would refuse my Social Security number.Social Security - just think about what that was supposed to mean and what it has become to mean .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's less about "because you are signing a contract" than it is because they are, in point of fact, extending you credit, in the form of allowing you to rack up usage charges that they will bill you for after the fact.
They may not disclose what your credit limit is on that front, but believe me, behind the scenes, that number -- how far into usage charges they will let you get without payment -- has been calculated to the penny and stored in your account info.Why do they retain this information?
Like any other creditor they know that your credit situation changes, and they will periodically 're-check' your credit to see if their internal number for your credit-worthiness needs to be adjusted up or down as time goes on.Put the tin-foil hats away, folks.
Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies, there's "nothing to see here.
"So you have surrendered to the erosion of personal privacy, personal rights and personal integrity;  I haven't and neither has the author of the post.
You may be one of those willing to trade your rights for convenience.
I too would refuse my Social Security number.Social Security - just think about what that was supposed to mean and what it has become to mean.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419023</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420131</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>GeckoAddict</author>
	<datestamp>1245677580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>(Sprint != GSM) == No SIM card</htmltext>
<tokenext>( Sprint ! = GSM ) = = No SIM card</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(Sprint != GSM) == No SIM card</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418839</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421363</id>
	<title>Legal Eagle</title>
	<author>Zero\_DgZ</author>
	<datestamp>1245682920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, on the back of my social security card it says in big bold letters that my card and number are not to be used for identification purposes. I wonder if they've changed that bit in recent years? On a form 4473 (that is Application to Purchase a <i>freaking firearm</i>) I am allowed to skip the portion about the social security number and the federal background check will still go through and I am still allowed to walk home with my new shooting iron.</p><p>So I guess that ties it.</p><p>Forget the Palm Pre, take that money you would have given to Sprint and buy a gun instead.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , on the back of my social security card it says in big bold letters that my card and number are not to be used for identification purposes .
I wonder if they 've changed that bit in recent years ?
On a form 4473 ( that is Application to Purchase a freaking firearm ) I am allowed to skip the portion about the social security number and the federal background check will still go through and I am still allowed to walk home with my new shooting iron.So I guess that ties it.Forget the Palm Pre , take that money you would have given to Sprint and buy a gun instead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, on the back of my social security card it says in big bold letters that my card and number are not to be used for identification purposes.
I wonder if they've changed that bit in recent years?
On a form 4473 (that is Application to Purchase a freaking firearm) I am allowed to skip the portion about the social security number and the federal background check will still go through and I am still allowed to walk home with my new shooting iron.So I guess that ties it.Forget the Palm Pre, take that money you would have given to Sprint and buy a gun instead.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419879</id>
	<title>Why struggle for Palm's "Hail Mary" pass?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245675780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Palm as a company is in the midst of it's death throes.  They have had horrendous customer service for years.  They don't honor their own warranties. They don't sell aftermarket replacement parts for parts known to break on their products.  If you want a Palm repaired, you have to go to a third-party, or pay them close to full original retail!</p><p>In order to "save" their company, they introduced a new operating system that abandoned all of the embedded base of software.  They deployed their "Hail Mary" pass phone on one of the lower-quality lower-penetration wireless networks.</p><p>Now through that exclusivity contract, they are making it a pain to purchase their product.</p><p>So, tell me again, why do you want a Pre?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Palm as a company is in the midst of it 's death throes .
They have had horrendous customer service for years .
They do n't honor their own warranties .
They do n't sell aftermarket replacement parts for parts known to break on their products .
If you want a Palm repaired , you have to go to a third-party , or pay them close to full original retail ! In order to " save " their company , they introduced a new operating system that abandoned all of the embedded base of software .
They deployed their " Hail Mary " pass phone on one of the lower-quality lower-penetration wireless networks.Now through that exclusivity contract , they are making it a pain to purchase their product.So , tell me again , why do you want a Pre ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Palm as a company is in the midst of it's death throes.
They have had horrendous customer service for years.
They don't honor their own warranties.
They don't sell aftermarket replacement parts for parts known to break on their products.
If you want a Palm repaired, you have to go to a third-party, or pay them close to full original retail!In order to "save" their company, they introduced a new operating system that abandoned all of the embedded base of software.
They deployed their "Hail Mary" pass phone on one of the lower-quality lower-penetration wireless networks.Now through that exclusivity contract, they are making it a pain to purchase their product.So, tell me again, why do you want a Pre?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28428495</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245663840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wrong. You are only required to have a tax identification number for tax collecting purposes and you can file/pay taxes without either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong .
You are only required to have a tax identification number for tax collecting purposes and you can file/pay taxes without either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong.
You are only required to have a tax identification number for tax collecting purposes and you can file/pay taxes without either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419431</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419373</id>
	<title>buy in a state with consumer protection</title>
	<author>irtza</author>
	<datestamp>1245671760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core\_financial\_services/004801.html" title="consumersunion.org">http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core\_financial\_services/004801.html</a> [consumersunion.org]

Apparently in some states, they should not be able to do this.  Of course I may not understand the full extent of the law as it applies, but it seems to me that this is a consumer product and they are refusing to sell based off of a lack of social security num...</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.consumersunion.org/pub/core \ _financial \ _services/004801.html [ consumersunion.org ] Apparently in some states , they should not be able to do this .
Of course I may not understand the full extent of the law as it applies , but it seems to me that this is a consumer product and they are refusing to sell based off of a lack of social security num.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core\_financial\_services/004801.html [consumersunion.org]

Apparently in some states, they should not be able to do this.
Of course I may not understand the full extent of the law as it applies, but it seems to me that this is a consumer product and they are refusing to sell based off of a lack of social security num...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28477097</id>
	<title>Privact Act of 1974</title>
	<author>Manty01Actual</author>
	<datestamp>1245948300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Umm, unless Sprint has cited the verse and statue concerning the Privacy Act of 1974, then it is a crime for them to ask first for the SSN, and also a crime for them to deny services for refusal of giving it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm , unless Sprint has cited the verse and statue concerning the Privacy Act of 1974 , then it is a crime for them to ask first for the SSN , and also a crime for them to deny services for refusal of giving it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm, unless Sprint has cited the verse and statue concerning the Privacy Act of 1974, then it is a crime for them to ask first for the SSN, and also a crime for them to deny services for refusal of giving it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421807</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>WMD\_88</author>
	<datestamp>1245684420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's $800 Canadian for the 3GS.  As with everything, stuff costs more in Canada (especially since, I believe, the exchange rate is very close to 1.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's $ 800 Canadian for the 3GS .
As with everything , stuff costs more in Canada ( especially since , I believe , the exchange rate is very close to 1 .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's $800 Canadian for the 3GS.
As with everything, stuff costs more in Canada (especially since, I believe, the exchange rate is very close to 1.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418865</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28434811</id>
	<title>You were told wrong...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245692760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>FWIW I work in a Sprint retail store, and you actually can create an account without a SSN.  It automatically requires a deposit, but is very easy to do.  I have done so at least 3 times over the last year or so.
Generally, this is reserved for those who don't have a SSN as of yet (i.e. recent immigrants), but I don't see why it couldn't be applied in your case as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>FWIW I work in a Sprint retail store , and you actually can create an account without a SSN .
It automatically requires a deposit , but is very easy to do .
I have done so at least 3 times over the last year or so .
Generally , this is reserved for those who do n't have a SSN as of yet ( i.e .
recent immigrants ) , but I do n't see why it could n't be applied in your case as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FWIW I work in a Sprint retail store, and you actually can create an account without a SSN.
It automatically requires a deposit, but is very easy to do.
I have done so at least 3 times over the last year or so.
Generally, this is reserved for those who don't have a SSN as of yet (i.e.
recent immigrants), but I don't see why it couldn't be applied in your case as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419743</id>
	<title>Simple solution</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1245674760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't buy it.</p><p>If you don't want to sell me something on sensible terms, I don't want to buy. Supply has to match demand at least at a nominal level, if it does not, no sale.</p><p>I dunno, when did we get so desperate to buy that we bent over backwards on whatever our possible business partner wants? I could see it for food or shelter, but for electronic gadgets? First, I lived without one so far, I will be able to survive without one. I have proof that I can (I lived so far). Second, my life depends on many things, but not on this one.</p><p>Bottom line: I will survive without you as my supplier. Will you survive without me as your customer?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't buy it.If you do n't want to sell me something on sensible terms , I do n't want to buy .
Supply has to match demand at least at a nominal level , if it does not , no sale.I dunno , when did we get so desperate to buy that we bent over backwards on whatever our possible business partner wants ?
I could see it for food or shelter , but for electronic gadgets ?
First , I lived without one so far , I will be able to survive without one .
I have proof that I can ( I lived so far ) .
Second , my life depends on many things , but not on this one.Bottom line : I will survive without you as my supplier .
Will you survive without me as your customer ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't buy it.If you don't want to sell me something on sensible terms, I don't want to buy.
Supply has to match demand at least at a nominal level, if it does not, no sale.I dunno, when did we get so desperate to buy that we bent over backwards on whatever our possible business partner wants?
I could see it for food or shelter, but for electronic gadgets?
First, I lived without one so far, I will be able to survive without one.
I have proof that I can (I lived so far).
Second, my life depends on many things, but not on this one.Bottom line: I will survive without you as my supplier.
Will you survive without me as your customer?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419137</id>
	<title>Re:Another iPhone botherer fails</title>
	<author>daveime</author>
	<datestamp>1245669780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How can you kill that which has no life ?</p><p>To say that none-multitasking piece of crap that is "iJobs" latest offering comes anywhere *close* to a high end Nokia, Motorola or Sony Ericksson is just crazy.</p><p>They had to wait till version 2 just to get 3G for God's sake, while the rest of the world has been enjoying 3.5G for a couple of years already. And they only just got a real *video* recorder also<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... well whoop-de-doo Basil.</p><p>iPhone is to cell phones, as Cartier is to watches<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... fucking expensive shiny piece of crap that probably does half of what a $5 timepiece would do. People don't buy it for funtion, they buy it like any other piece of bling bling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How can you kill that which has no life ? To say that none-multitasking piece of crap that is " iJobs " latest offering comes anywhere * close * to a high end Nokia , Motorola or Sony Ericksson is just crazy.They had to wait till version 2 just to get 3G for God 's sake , while the rest of the world has been enjoying 3.5G for a couple of years already .
And they only just got a real * video * recorder also ... well whoop-de-doo Basil.iPhone is to cell phones , as Cartier is to watches ... fucking expensive shiny piece of crap that probably does half of what a $ 5 timepiece would do .
People do n't buy it for funtion , they buy it like any other piece of bling bling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How can you kill that which has no life ?To say that none-multitasking piece of crap that is "iJobs" latest offering comes anywhere *close* to a high end Nokia, Motorola or Sony Ericksson is just crazy.They had to wait till version 2 just to get 3G for God's sake, while the rest of the world has been enjoying 3.5G for a couple of years already.
And they only just got a real *video* recorder also ... well whoop-de-doo Basil.iPhone is to cell phones, as Cartier is to watches ... fucking expensive shiny piece of crap that probably does half of what a $5 timepiece would do.
People don't buy it for funtion, they buy it like any other piece of bling bling.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418665</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418809</id>
	<title>Not an exclusive deal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245666900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All cellular service providers require an SSN for service. It wasn't needed to buy the Pre or because of any exclusive arrangement between Palm &amp; Sprint.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All cellular service providers require an SSN for service .
It was n't needed to buy the Pre or because of any exclusive arrangement between Palm &amp; Sprint .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All cellular service providers require an SSN for service.
It wasn't needed to buy the Pre or because of any exclusive arrangement between Palm &amp; Sprint.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419215</id>
	<title>Just give them a fake one</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245670440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's what I did to AT&amp;T. The funny thing was that later I had to identify myself on the phone and they asked for the last 4 digits. Whoops!</p><p>It turned out ok though, I eventually remembered the fake one I gave them. Turns out the last 4 digits were the same as the first 4 of my credit card. I'm apparently very bad at making up random numbers on the fly...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's what I did to AT&amp;T .
The funny thing was that later I had to identify myself on the phone and they asked for the last 4 digits .
Whoops ! It turned out ok though , I eventually remembered the fake one I gave them .
Turns out the last 4 digits were the same as the first 4 of my credit card .
I 'm apparently very bad at making up random numbers on the fly.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's what I did to AT&amp;T.
The funny thing was that later I had to identify myself on the phone and they asked for the last 4 digits.
Whoops!It turned out ok though, I eventually remembered the fake one I gave them.
Turns out the last 4 digits were the same as the first 4 of my credit card.
I'm apparently very bad at making up random numbers on the fly...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419651</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>Rocketship Underpant</author>
	<datestamp>1245673860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Excellent point.</p><p>As an aside, most countries (including Japan where I live) do not have SSNs, and naturally in those places there is no need to provide one in order to get a cell phone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Excellent point.As an aside , most countries ( including Japan where I live ) do not have SSNs , and naturally in those places there is no need to provide one in order to get a cell phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Excellent point.As an aside, most countries (including Japan where I live) do not have SSNs, and naturally in those places there is no need to provide one in order to get a cell phone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418813</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418865</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245667500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The iPhone is definitely -not- reasonably priced.  Last year's was $600 or $700 ( <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25478296/ns/technology\_and\_science-wireless/" title="msn.com">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25478296/ns/technology\_and\_science-wireless/</a> [msn.com] ) and this years is $800 ( <a href="http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/06/15/rogers-fido-no-contract-iphone-3g-s-pricing-revealed-eh/" title="boygeniusreport.com">http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/06/15/rogers-fido-no-contract-iphone-3g-s-pricing-revealed-eh/</a> [boygeniusreport.com] ).  That's not -reasonable- at all.</p><p>The G1 is about $450 outright, which is still too high to be called 'reasonable', but it's a lot closer.</p><p>These new toys are expensive.  Period.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The iPhone is definitely -not- reasonably priced .
Last year 's was $ 600 or $ 700 ( http : //www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25478296/ns/technology \ _and \ _science-wireless/ [ msn.com ] ) and this years is $ 800 ( http : //www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/06/15/rogers-fido-no-contract-iphone-3g-s-pricing-revealed-eh/ [ boygeniusreport.com ] ) .
That 's not -reasonable- at all.The G1 is about $ 450 outright , which is still too high to be called 'reasonable ' , but it 's a lot closer.These new toys are expensive .
Period .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The iPhone is definitely -not- reasonably priced.
Last year's was $600 or $700 ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25478296/ns/technology\_and\_science-wireless/ [msn.com] ) and this years is $800 ( http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/06/15/rogers-fido-no-contract-iphone-3g-s-pricing-revealed-eh/ [boygeniusreport.com] ).
That's not -reasonable- at all.The G1 is about $450 outright, which is still too high to be called 'reasonable', but it's a lot closer.These new toys are expensive.
Period.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418641</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419837</id>
	<title>Do like I do</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245675480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't buy those things, they are "tied products" which is illegal.  If you wouldn't pay for the item at 800+ with free internet, why would you pay 200 and make it up in internet fees?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't buy those things , they are " tied products " which is illegal .
If you would n't pay for the item at 800 + with free internet , why would you pay 200 and make it up in internet fees ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't buy those things, they are "tied products" which is illegal.
If you wouldn't pay for the item at 800+ with free internet, why would you pay 200 and make it up in internet fees?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420171</id>
	<title>"offered no acceptable options" vs "refused to"</title>
	<author>v1</author>
	<datestamp>1245677880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500); or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot. None of these was acceptable options,</i></p><p>We've been through this with the iPhone already.  The law prevents them from requiring your ssn as terms of a sale.  They can request it, but must offer an option, usually in the form of a much larger down payment or deposit.  It's not uncommon for sales staff to not be educated on this policy since it's rarely invoked.  From the sounds of it, you protested, and did finally get offered the option, which you turned down.  You lose the right to complain.</p><p>Quite simply put, there's no law that says they're required to offer you an "acceptable option".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sprint requires from people with poor credit ( $ 500 ) ; or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot .
None of these was acceptable options,We 've been through this with the iPhone already .
The law prevents them from requiring your ssn as terms of a sale .
They can request it , but must offer an option , usually in the form of a much larger down payment or deposit .
It 's not uncommon for sales staff to not be educated on this policy since it 's rarely invoked .
From the sounds of it , you protested , and did finally get offered the option , which you turned down .
You lose the right to complain.Quite simply put , there 's no law that says they 're required to offer you an " acceptable option " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500); or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot.
None of these was acceptable options,We've been through this with the iPhone already.
The law prevents them from requiring your ssn as terms of a sale.
They can request it, but must offer an option, usually in the form of a much larger down payment or deposit.
It's not uncommon for sales staff to not be educated on this policy since it's rarely invoked.
From the sounds of it, you protested, and did finally get offered the option, which you turned down.
You lose the right to complain.Quite simply put, there's no law that says they're required to offer you an "acceptable option".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419045</id>
	<title>It's worse over here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245669000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in Argentina and in order to legally buy a cellphone you need (to have and) show your DNI (ID) and not only that, they also do 2 photocopies of it.(The store keeps one archived and the other goes to the government for investigation).<br>A lot of people are actually banned from buying equipment or new cell lines, so they often go to the black market to fulfill their needs.<br>Regardless of that, I only use my D.N.I. (National ID document) for voting and bank related paperwork. For general ID we got a CI (ID card) that according to the law we should carry it at all times). Oh, also we need a driving license if you are driving so there goes ID # 3.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in Argentina and in order to legally buy a cellphone you need ( to have and ) show your DNI ( ID ) and not only that , they also do 2 photocopies of it .
( The store keeps one archived and the other goes to the government for investigation ) .A lot of people are actually banned from buying equipment or new cell lines , so they often go to the black market to fulfill their needs.Regardless of that , I only use my D.N.I .
( National ID document ) for voting and bank related paperwork .
For general ID we got a CI ( ID card ) that according to the law we should carry it at all times ) .
Oh , also we need a driving license if you are driving so there goes ID # 3 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in Argentina and in order to legally buy a cellphone you need (to have and) show your DNI (ID) and not only that, they also do 2 photocopies of it.
(The store keeps one archived and the other goes to the government for investigation).A lot of people are actually banned from buying equipment or new cell lines, so they often go to the black market to fulfill their needs.Regardless of that, I only use my D.N.I.
(National ID document) for voting and bank related paperwork.
For general ID we got a CI (ID card) that according to the law we should carry it at all times).
Oh, also we need a driving license if you are driving so there goes ID # 3.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28423969</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245691680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Canadian, for the larger GB model. The cheaper model (at 16GB) is probably plenty for most. That model is 699 Canadian, or about <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=700+canadian+dollars+to+us+dollars&amp;aq=f&amp;oq=&amp;aqi=" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">$610 US dollars</a> [google.com] </p><p>Yes, certainly, even 450 is too much for a phone, but sadly, that's how much this stuff costs. It's crazy expensive, but the contacts are really that much worse. Once finding a phone I liked, I'd much rather switch services at the drop of a hat than to have to sign a 2 year contract, but get a shitty free phone or a reduced price decent phone. The person that moves across town and no longer receives service at their house is a prime reason why these contracts blow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Canadian , for the larger GB model .
The cheaper model ( at 16GB ) is probably plenty for most .
That model is 699 Canadian , or about $ 610 US dollars [ google.com ] Yes , certainly , even 450 is too much for a phone , but sadly , that 's how much this stuff costs .
It 's crazy expensive , but the contacts are really that much worse .
Once finding a phone I liked , I 'd much rather switch services at the drop of a hat than to have to sign a 2 year contract , but get a shitty free phone or a reduced price decent phone .
The person that moves across town and no longer receives service at their house is a prime reason why these contracts blow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Canadian, for the larger GB model.
The cheaper model (at 16GB) is probably plenty for most.
That model is 699 Canadian, or about $610 US dollars [google.com] Yes, certainly, even 450 is too much for a phone, but sadly, that's how much this stuff costs.
It's crazy expensive, but the contacts are really that much worse.
Once finding a phone I liked, I'd much rather switch services at the drop of a hat than to have to sign a 2 year contract, but get a shitty free phone or a reduced price decent phone.
The person that moves across town and no longer receives service at their house is a prime reason why these contracts blow.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418865</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420423</id>
	<title>credit history expiration</title>
	<author>Bobtree</author>
	<datestamp>1245679320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I recently moved all my assets to a new bank and was issued an AMEX card right away, but then got a call from their issuers of VISA cards.  I was missing from their credit bureau ratings lookup, and we rechecked my name and SSN in triplicate.  Apparently my credit history expired!  I'm very used to the idea of my financial history living in databases wherever, so it was a real shock to discover I'd been erased from one.</p><p>The last time I'm certain I had and used a credit card was in 1995.  I'm sure I was credit checked a few times in 2000-2002 for college apartment renting, and possibly for a DOE clearance background check.</p><p>They said they would talk to the bank for my address and info and would have to send me extra paperwork since the credit bureau couldn't confirm anything.  The VISA recently arrived with no extra paper trail.</p><p>I guess credit can be use it or lose it.  Sprint probably would turn me down for their spiffy phone if I wanted one.  Or they would want to issue me some craptastic CC of theirs.</p><p>I'm a lousy credit customer anyway, since I would keep everything permanently paid off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I recently moved all my assets to a new bank and was issued an AMEX card right away , but then got a call from their issuers of VISA cards .
I was missing from their credit bureau ratings lookup , and we rechecked my name and SSN in triplicate .
Apparently my credit history expired !
I 'm very used to the idea of my financial history living in databases wherever , so it was a real shock to discover I 'd been erased from one.The last time I 'm certain I had and used a credit card was in 1995 .
I 'm sure I was credit checked a few times in 2000-2002 for college apartment renting , and possibly for a DOE clearance background check.They said they would talk to the bank for my address and info and would have to send me extra paperwork since the credit bureau could n't confirm anything .
The VISA recently arrived with no extra paper trail.I guess credit can be use it or lose it .
Sprint probably would turn me down for their spiffy phone if I wanted one .
Or they would want to issue me some craptastic CC of theirs.I 'm a lousy credit customer anyway , since I would keep everything permanently paid off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recently moved all my assets to a new bank and was issued an AMEX card right away, but then got a call from their issuers of VISA cards.
I was missing from their credit bureau ratings lookup, and we rechecked my name and SSN in triplicate.
Apparently my credit history expired!
I'm very used to the idea of my financial history living in databases wherever, so it was a real shock to discover I'd been erased from one.The last time I'm certain I had and used a credit card was in 1995.
I'm sure I was credit checked a few times in 2000-2002 for college apartment renting, and possibly for a DOE clearance background check.They said they would talk to the bank for my address and info and would have to send me extra paperwork since the credit bureau couldn't confirm anything.
The VISA recently arrived with no extra paper trail.I guess credit can be use it or lose it.
Sprint probably would turn me down for their spiffy phone if I wanted one.
Or they would want to issue me some craptastic CC of theirs.I'm a lousy credit customer anyway, since I would keep everything permanently paid off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419529</id>
	<title>And then there are people like me...</title>
	<author>Photo\_Nut</author>
	<datestamp>1245673020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I bought an iPhone this weekend - it was my father's day gift from my wife. AT&amp;T needed my driver's license, SS#, and payment.</p><p>It was what they required to make the purchase, so that's the information I gave them. I didn't think anything of it other than that it took a while. But in the end, I had a new internet utility that doubled as a phone and an iPod, and I love it. It's a great gadget.</p><p>You may lament that they require your SS#, but it's the people like me who simply don't care for the hassle that make it hard for the people like you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I bought an iPhone this weekend - it was my father 's day gift from my wife .
AT&amp;T needed my driver 's license , SS # , and payment.It was what they required to make the purchase , so that 's the information I gave them .
I did n't think anything of it other than that it took a while .
But in the end , I had a new internet utility that doubled as a phone and an iPod , and I love it .
It 's a great gadget.You may lament that they require your SS # , but it 's the people like me who simply do n't care for the hassle that make it hard for the people like you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bought an iPhone this weekend - it was my father's day gift from my wife.
AT&amp;T needed my driver's license, SS#, and payment.It was what they required to make the purchase, so that's the information I gave them.
I didn't think anything of it other than that it took a while.
But in the end, I had a new internet utility that doubled as a phone and an iPod, and I love it.
It's a great gadget.You may lament that they require your SS#, but it's the people like me who simply don't care for the hassle that make it hard for the people like you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28422075</id>
	<title>wrong- Individual Taxpayer Identification Number</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At least according to the IRS (<a href="http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96696,00.html/" title="irs.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96696,00.html/</a> [irs.gov], an SSN is *NOT* required to file taxes.</p><p>Nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents use an ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) rather than an SSN.  For many purposes (including credit checks) they're effectively the same thing, but it can be true (if disingenuous) for someone with an ITIN to say "I don't have an SSN".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At least according to the IRS ( http : //www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id = 96696,00.html/ [ irs.gov ] , an SSN is * NOT * required to file taxes.Nonresident and resident aliens , their spouses , and dependents use an ITIN ( Individual Taxpayer Identification Number ) rather than an SSN .
For many purposes ( including credit checks ) they 're effectively the same thing , but it can be true ( if disingenuous ) for someone with an ITIN to say " I do n't have an SSN " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least according to the IRS (http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96696,00.html/ [irs.gov], an SSN is *NOT* required to file taxes.Nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents use an ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) rather than an SSN.
For many purposes (including credit checks) they're effectively the same thing, but it can be true (if disingenuous) for someone with an ITIN to say "I don't have an SSN".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419431</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28425975</id>
	<title>This is illegal...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245698640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't remember the exact statute, but it is illegal for any organization, <strong>even the government</strong> to require that you give them your SSN for anything.  Tell them they are breaking the law and cite the statute and see what they say.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't remember the exact statute , but it is illegal for any organization , even the government to require that you give them your SSN for anything .
Tell them they are breaking the law and cite the statute and see what they say .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't remember the exact statute, but it is illegal for any organization, even the government to require that you give them your SSN for anything.
Tell them they are breaking the law and cite the statute and see what they say.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420387</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245679020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They may not disclose what your credit limit is on that front, but believe me, behind the scenes, that number -- how far into usage charges they will let you get without payment -- has been calculated to the penny and stored in your account info.</p></div><p>So why not let me artificially reduce that number to some amount that I pay up-front?</p><p>This reliance on credit is insane.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They may not disclose what your credit limit is on that front , but believe me , behind the scenes , that number -- how far into usage charges they will let you get without payment -- has been calculated to the penny and stored in your account info.So why not let me artificially reduce that number to some amount that I pay up-front ? This reliance on credit is insane .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They may not disclose what your credit limit is on that front, but believe me, behind the scenes, that number -- how far into usage charges they will let you get without payment -- has been calculated to the penny and stored in your account info.So why not let me artificially reduce that number to some amount that I pay up-front?This reliance on credit is insane.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419023</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419431</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>SkyDude</author>
	<datestamp>1245672300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>that everyone has a social security number.   There is no requirement to have one.   I love the stunned looks I get when I reply "I don't have one".   I actually have one, but they don't need to know that either.</i></p></div><p>You're correct that an SSN is not required, but assuming you are employed, your employer IS required to file taxes in your name and that requires an SSN.<br> <br>If you are employed, file taxes and wish to take a deduction for your child, the child must have an SSN. Hospitals now routinely fill out and transmit the SSN paper work before your infant even leaves the hospital.<br> <br>The Exalted One's administration (Obama) recently filed for legislation to "overhaul" the credit card industry, but AFAIK, never touched the SSN requirement. Why? Because the banking lobby is one of the most powerful in Washington. <br> <br>On the front of your SSN card it says "Not For Identification", yet businesses have routinely done so for decades. It's time to put a stop to this abuse and require business to establish a secure option to the SSN. Losing control of your SSN is handing over the keys to the castle. If businesses can't manage to secure CC numbers, how can we trust them to secure this most important number?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>that everyone has a social security number .
There is no requirement to have one .
I love the stunned looks I get when I reply " I do n't have one " .
I actually have one , but they do n't need to know that either.You 're correct that an SSN is not required , but assuming you are employed , your employer IS required to file taxes in your name and that requires an SSN .
If you are employed , file taxes and wish to take a deduction for your child , the child must have an SSN .
Hospitals now routinely fill out and transmit the SSN paper work before your infant even leaves the hospital .
The Exalted One 's administration ( Obama ) recently filed for legislation to " overhaul " the credit card industry , but AFAIK , never touched the SSN requirement .
Why ? Because the banking lobby is one of the most powerful in Washington .
On the front of your SSN card it says " Not For Identification " , yet businesses have routinely done so for decades .
It 's time to put a stop to this abuse and require business to establish a secure option to the SSN .
Losing control of your SSN is handing over the keys to the castle .
If businesses ca n't manage to secure CC numbers , how can we trust them to secure this most important number ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> that everyone has a social security number.
There is no requirement to have one.
I love the stunned looks I get when I reply "I don't have one".
I actually have one, but they don't need to know that either.You're correct that an SSN is not required, but assuming you are employed, your employer IS required to file taxes in your name and that requires an SSN.
If you are employed, file taxes and wish to take a deduction for your child, the child must have an SSN.
Hospitals now routinely fill out and transmit the SSN paper work before your infant even leaves the hospital.
The Exalted One's administration (Obama) recently filed for legislation to "overhaul" the credit card industry, but AFAIK, never touched the SSN requirement.
Why? Because the banking lobby is one of the most powerful in Washington.
On the front of your SSN card it says "Not For Identification", yet businesses have routinely done so for decades.
It's time to put a stop to this abuse and require business to establish a secure option to the SSN.
Losing control of your SSN is handing over the keys to the castle.
If businesses can't manage to secure CC numbers, how can we trust them to secure this most important number?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418813</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421771</id>
	<title>Re:"offered no acceptable options" vs "refused to"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245684300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you misread the post.  He offered to do these things, but they were not acceptable to Sprint.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you misread the post .
He offered to do these things , but they were not acceptable to Sprint .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you misread the post.
He offered to do these things, but they were not acceptable to Sprint.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418813</id>
	<title>Gross assumption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245666900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that everyone has a social security number.   There is no requirement to have one.   I love the stunned looks I get when I reply "I don't have one".   I actually have one, but they don't need to know that either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that everyone has a social security number .
There is no requirement to have one .
I love the stunned looks I get when I reply " I do n't have one " .
I actually have one , but they do n't need to know that either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that everyone has a social security number.
There is no requirement to have one.
I love the stunned looks I get when I reply "I don't have one".
I actually have one, but they don't need to know that either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418973</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>adolf</author>
	<datestamp>1245668520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Disclaimer:  I do IT stuff for a regional Verizon dealer.  (Please note that this is neither Sprint, nor related to a Palm Pre.)</p><p>AFAICT, in working amongst the sales staff, an SSN is required for any (non-prepaid) phone.  Even if you pay for the handset outright.  It's even a prerequisite for any account changes (or at least the last four digits are).</p><p>Why?  Because they're going to bill you, <i>after the fact</i>, for the services that you've used, and they just want to make sure that you're (likely to be) good for the money when the bill comes.  Hence credit checks, and/or a deposit if your credit rating is poor.  (Not every company is so friendly as Dreamhost, who will send you reminders about the money you owe them for months and months while still continuing to service the wayward account as usual.)</p><p>Just like any other utility.  The power company here wants to do a credit check before they'll give me service, so does the local (landline) telco, and the gas company, and my banker, and my previous landlord(s), and...   It's just to establish merit.  Fail the credit check, and get asked to put a deposit in.  Pass, and you skip the deposit and move on with life.  End of story.</p><p><b>Of course</b> a credit check is in Sprint's interest to conduct whenever a phone (on a month-to-month plan) is sold, and (AFAIK) such credit checks need an SSN to complete.</p><p>Nothing to see here, folks; move along (and throw away that fucking tinfoil hat while you're at it).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Disclaimer : I do IT stuff for a regional Verizon dealer .
( Please note that this is neither Sprint , nor related to a Palm Pre .
) AFAICT , in working amongst the sales staff , an SSN is required for any ( non-prepaid ) phone .
Even if you pay for the handset outright .
It 's even a prerequisite for any account changes ( or at least the last four digits are ) .Why ?
Because they 're going to bill you , after the fact , for the services that you 've used , and they just want to make sure that you 're ( likely to be ) good for the money when the bill comes .
Hence credit checks , and/or a deposit if your credit rating is poor .
( Not every company is so friendly as Dreamhost , who will send you reminders about the money you owe them for months and months while still continuing to service the wayward account as usual .
) Just like any other utility .
The power company here wants to do a credit check before they 'll give me service , so does the local ( landline ) telco , and the gas company , and my banker , and my previous landlord ( s ) , and... It 's just to establish merit .
Fail the credit check , and get asked to put a deposit in .
Pass , and you skip the deposit and move on with life .
End of story.Of course a credit check is in Sprint 's interest to conduct whenever a phone ( on a month-to-month plan ) is sold , and ( AFAIK ) such credit checks need an SSN to complete.Nothing to see here , folks ; move along ( and throw away that fucking tinfoil hat while you 're at it ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Disclaimer:  I do IT stuff for a regional Verizon dealer.
(Please note that this is neither Sprint, nor related to a Palm Pre.
)AFAICT, in working amongst the sales staff, an SSN is required for any (non-prepaid) phone.
Even if you pay for the handset outright.
It's even a prerequisite for any account changes (or at least the last four digits are).Why?
Because they're going to bill you, after the fact, for the services that you've used, and they just want to make sure that you're (likely to be) good for the money when the bill comes.
Hence credit checks, and/or a deposit if your credit rating is poor.
(Not every company is so friendly as Dreamhost, who will send you reminders about the money you owe them for months and months while still continuing to service the wayward account as usual.
)Just like any other utility.
The power company here wants to do a credit check before they'll give me service, so does the local (landline) telco, and the gas company, and my banker, and my previous landlord(s), and...   It's just to establish merit.
Fail the credit check, and get asked to put a deposit in.
Pass, and you skip the deposit and move on with life.
End of story.Of course a credit check is in Sprint's interest to conduct whenever a phone (on a month-to-month plan) is sold, and (AFAIK) such credit checks need an SSN to complete.Nothing to see here, folks; move along (and throw away that fucking tinfoil hat while you're at it).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421613</id>
	<title>Re:Here's something worse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245683820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As if a 'land line' number actually means a geographic location...it sort of did, sort of didn't and with mobile devices and VoIP, it means even less now...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As if a 'land line ' number actually means a geographic location...it sort of did , sort of did n't and with mobile devices and VoIP , it means even less now.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As if a 'land line' number actually means a geographic location...it sort of did, sort of didn't and with mobile devices and VoIP, it means even less now...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420859</id>
	<title>AT&amp;T does the same</title>
	<author>jlbooker</author>
	<datestamp>1245681120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For what it's worth, this isn't an un-common practice.

AT&amp;T required my SSN to do a credit check before opening my account (back when I bought an iPhone 3G). If your credit rating is poor, you are required to pay a deposit on your account, which seems like a reasonable business practice to me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For what it 's worth , this is n't an un-common practice .
AT&amp;T required my SSN to do a credit check before opening my account ( back when I bought an iPhone 3G ) .
If your credit rating is poor , you are required to pay a deposit on your account , which seems like a reasonable business practice to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For what it's worth, this isn't an un-common practice.
AT&amp;T required my SSN to do a credit check before opening my account (back when I bought an iPhone 3G).
If your credit rating is poor, you are required to pay a deposit on your account, which seems like a reasonable business practice to me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28425483</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>UltraOne</author>
	<datestamp>1245696780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did not have to give Verizon an SSN when I signed up for their service. I don't have records that show an exact start date handy, but I think they have been my carrier since the late 1990's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did not have to give Verizon an SSN when I signed up for their service .
I do n't have records that show an exact start date handy , but I think they have been my carrier since the late 1990 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did not have to give Verizon an SSN when I signed up for their service.
I don't have records that show an exact start date handy, but I think they have been my carrier since the late 1990's.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418645</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28423215</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>jtownatpunk.net</author>
	<datestamp>1245689100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They gave him TWO (2) alternate methods and he declined both.  He could have paid the base rate of his 2 year contract in full or he could have given them a $500 deposit.  Either method would have bypassed the credit check.  I'm sure he could have also paid the "no contract" cost of the phone and walked away with the phone but no service.</p><p>Obviously, the credit check is for the CREDIT they're extending, not the phone.  They're giving him a $2000 line of unsecured credit with a 2 year payment plan.  He's obligated to pay that amount in installments or pay a 10\% termination fee and return the equipment.  Sprint has every right to verify that they can count on him to pay off his debt.  If he's not willing to allow that verification, he's welcome to put them at ease by either declining the credit and paying in full or providing 25\% of the amount as collateral.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They gave him TWO ( 2 ) alternate methods and he declined both .
He could have paid the base rate of his 2 year contract in full or he could have given them a $ 500 deposit .
Either method would have bypassed the credit check .
I 'm sure he could have also paid the " no contract " cost of the phone and walked away with the phone but no service.Obviously , the credit check is for the CREDIT they 're extending , not the phone .
They 're giving him a $ 2000 line of unsecured credit with a 2 year payment plan .
He 's obligated to pay that amount in installments or pay a 10 \ % termination fee and return the equipment .
Sprint has every right to verify that they can count on him to pay off his debt .
If he 's not willing to allow that verification , he 's welcome to put them at ease by either declining the credit and paying in full or providing 25 \ % of the amount as collateral .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They gave him TWO (2) alternate methods and he declined both.
He could have paid the base rate of his 2 year contract in full or he could have given them a $500 deposit.
Either method would have bypassed the credit check.
I'm sure he could have also paid the "no contract" cost of the phone and walked away with the phone but no service.Obviously, the credit check is for the CREDIT they're extending, not the phone.
They're giving him a $2000 line of unsecured credit with a 2 year payment plan.
He's obligated to pay that amount in installments or pay a 10\% termination fee and return the equipment.
Sprint has every right to verify that they can count on him to pay off his debt.
If he's not willing to allow that verification, he's welcome to put them at ease by either declining the credit and paying in full or providing 25\% of the amount as collateral.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419727</id>
	<title>not only available from Sprint</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245674640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought the Pre could also be bought from Best Buy.  And I've seen stuff online about using it without it being activated by Sprint (not sure if anyone's gotten it working on another carrier though; but Wi-Fi would still work?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought the Pre could also be bought from Best Buy .
And I 've seen stuff online about using it without it being activated by Sprint ( not sure if anyone 's gotten it working on another carrier though ; but Wi-Fi would still work ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought the Pre could also be bought from Best Buy.
And I've seen stuff online about using it without it being activated by Sprint (not sure if anyone's gotten it working on another carrier though; but Wi-Fi would still work?
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418993</id>
	<title>Land of the free</title>
	<author>Zouden</author>
	<datestamp>1245668700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Welcome to America, land of the free*</p><p>*terms and conditions apply. See in store for details.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Welcome to America , land of the free * * terms and conditions apply .
See in store for details .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Welcome to America, land of the free**terms and conditions apply.
See in store for details.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28430693</id>
	<title>Re:"offered no acceptable options" vs "refused to"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245671580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's posts like this that make me wish that I hadn't already commented on this thread because I'd be modding you down for not reading the article.</p><p>Or for lacking reading comprehension.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's posts like this that make me wish that I had n't already commented on this thread because I 'd be modding you down for not reading the article.Or for lacking reading comprehension .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's posts like this that make me wish that I hadn't already commented on this thread because I'd be modding you down for not reading the article.Or for lacking reading comprehension.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419943</id>
	<title>Re:Another iPhone botherer fails</title>
	<author>FictionPimp</author>
	<datestamp>1245676320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've bought two iphones, basically for their functionality.</p><p>I've tried backberries and windows mobile phones and found them too flaky or annoying to use. I have to support blackberries all the time and have never liked them.</p><p>The iphone is simple and does what I want a phone to do in a sleek way. In fact I look at not being able to run background tasks as a feature.</p><p>"Why can't I reach you by IM?"</p><p>"Oh, sorry the iphone won't let me keep my IM on 24/7"</p><p>"Oh, your phone sucks, you should get a blackberry."</p><p>"Yea, maybe you should call our help desk and report the issue to them rather then me the admin."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've bought two iphones , basically for their functionality.I 've tried backberries and windows mobile phones and found them too flaky or annoying to use .
I have to support blackberries all the time and have never liked them.The iphone is simple and does what I want a phone to do in a sleek way .
In fact I look at not being able to run background tasks as a feature .
" Why ca n't I reach you by IM ?
" " Oh , sorry the iphone wo n't let me keep my IM on 24/7 " " Oh , your phone sucks , you should get a blackberry .
" " Yea , maybe you should call our help desk and report the issue to them rather then me the admin .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've bought two iphones, basically for their functionality.I've tried backberries and windows mobile phones and found them too flaky or annoying to use.
I have to support blackberries all the time and have never liked them.The iphone is simple and does what I want a phone to do in a sleek way.
In fact I look at not being able to run background tasks as a feature.
"Why can't I reach you by IM?
""Oh, sorry the iphone won't let me keep my IM on 24/7""Oh, your phone sucks, you should get a blackberry.
""Yea, maybe you should call our help desk and report the issue to them rather then me the admin.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419137</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28432989</id>
	<title>Re:It's a Trap   BINGO!!!</title>
	<author>Bob\_Who</author>
	<datestamp>1245681360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>AMEN BROTHER/SISTER.

Now if only everyone would just "GET IT" so that a democracy can be useful under these circumstances.</htmltext>
<tokenext>AMEN BROTHER/SISTER .
Now if only everyone would just " GET IT " so that a democracy can be useful under these circumstances .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AMEN BROTHER/SISTER.
Now if only everyone would just "GET IT" so that a democracy can be useful under these circumstances.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418731</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418641</id>
	<title>They continue to fail</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245665520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Eventually, one of these manufacturers (I'm looling at you Nokia) is going to break ranks and stop signing exclusive deals.  They'll actually make phones with a price point that is reasonable (ya know, like the god damn iPhone is outright?  how the hell has Apple become the low cost option you greedy bastards?) and sell directly to consumers.  Retail really isn't that hard these days.. just provide a web only shop.. then cave a few years later and open emporiums.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Eventually , one of these manufacturers ( I 'm looling at you Nokia ) is going to break ranks and stop signing exclusive deals .
They 'll actually make phones with a price point that is reasonable ( ya know , like the god damn iPhone is outright ?
how the hell has Apple become the low cost option you greedy bastards ?
) and sell directly to consumers .
Retail really is n't that hard these days.. just provide a web only shop.. then cave a few years later and open emporiums .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Eventually, one of these manufacturers (I'm looling at you Nokia) is going to break ranks and stop signing exclusive deals.
They'll actually make phones with a price point that is reasonable (ya know, like the god damn iPhone is outright?
how the hell has Apple become the low cost option you greedy bastards?
) and sell directly to consumers.
Retail really isn't that hard these days.. just provide a web only shop.. then cave a few years later and open emporiums.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418733</id>
	<title>Self credit check</title>
	<author>Aphex Junkie</author>
	<datestamp>1245666300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>What about running a credit check on yourself (costs ~$12) and presenting them a copy of it (maybe with the non-essential details redacted)? I mean, you get the same information they do, so what's the big idea? You can forge a printout, but you can't forge anything when you present it from a website (such as MyFICO).

In fact, looking at the credit report I printed earlier, I can see that the SSN is redacted automatically and only the last 4 digits are shown. The rest of the information is public knowledge (current address), or innocuous (birth month and year).

Giving out your SSN is total bullshit. Tinfoil hat or not, I go out of my way to avoid it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What about running a credit check on yourself ( costs ~ $ 12 ) and presenting them a copy of it ( maybe with the non-essential details redacted ) ?
I mean , you get the same information they do , so what 's the big idea ?
You can forge a printout , but you ca n't forge anything when you present it from a website ( such as MyFICO ) .
In fact , looking at the credit report I printed earlier , I can see that the SSN is redacted automatically and only the last 4 digits are shown .
The rest of the information is public knowledge ( current address ) , or innocuous ( birth month and year ) .
Giving out your SSN is total bullshit .
Tinfoil hat or not , I go out of my way to avoid it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about running a credit check on yourself (costs ~$12) and presenting them a copy of it (maybe with the non-essential details redacted)?
I mean, you get the same information they do, so what's the big idea?
You can forge a printout, but you can't forge anything when you present it from a website (such as MyFICO).
In fact, looking at the credit report I printed earlier, I can see that the SSN is redacted automatically and only the last 4 digits are shown.
The rest of the information is public knowledge (current address), or innocuous (birth month and year).
Giving out your SSN is total bullshit.
Tinfoil hat or not, I go out of my way to avoid it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419429</id>
	<title>Credit Rating Agencies in the US...</title>
	<author>shabble</author>
	<datestamp>1245672180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is not beyond the wit of the credit reference agencies to identify a US citizen from stuff other than the (it appears horribly abused) SSN?</p><p>I mean, if Experian can manage it in the UK (Name, Address, DOB is usually enough to identify you with the CRA,) why can't they do it in the US?</p><p>Or is this just simply laziness on the part of the CRAs?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is not beyond the wit of the credit reference agencies to identify a US citizen from stuff other than the ( it appears horribly abused ) SSN ? I mean , if Experian can manage it in the UK ( Name , Address , DOB is usually enough to identify you with the CRA , ) why ca n't they do it in the US ? Or is this just simply laziness on the part of the CRAs ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is not beyond the wit of the credit reference agencies to identify a US citizen from stuff other than the (it appears horribly abused) SSN?I mean, if Experian can manage it in the UK (Name, Address, DOB is usually enough to identify you with the CRA,) why can't they do it in the US?Or is this just simply laziness on the part of the CRAs?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418665</id>
	<title>Another iPhone botherer fails</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245665700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>First - never call your new phone an 'iPhone killer'.
<br>
Second - if you're going to make an iPhone botherer, make sure it's easily accessible to the masses.  All that marketing and hype will do you no good if you pull of a gimmick like this or simply weren't aware of it when making an exclusivity deal.
<br>
Third - don't do exclusivity deals, what is the point in that?!
<br>
Fourth - I for one would like to welcome our SSN... ah never mind.</htmltext>
<tokenext>First - never call your new phone an 'iPhone killer' .
Second - if you 're going to make an iPhone botherer , make sure it 's easily accessible to the masses .
All that marketing and hype will do you no good if you pull of a gimmick like this or simply were n't aware of it when making an exclusivity deal .
Third - do n't do exclusivity deals , what is the point in that ? !
Fourth - I for one would like to welcome our SSN... ah never mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First - never call your new phone an 'iPhone killer'.
Second - if you're going to make an iPhone botherer, make sure it's easily accessible to the masses.
All that marketing and hype will do you no good if you pull of a gimmick like this or simply weren't aware of it when making an exclusivity deal.
Third - don't do exclusivity deals, what is the point in that?!
Fourth - I for one would like to welcome our SSN... ah never mind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28422377</id>
	<title>Bankruptcy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245686220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work in bankruptcy law.  You may not know this, but people get huge telecommunications debts discharged (often paying cents, if even, on the dollar) in bankruptcy - and these companies can act as pretty significant creditors because they don't heartily demand cash-up-front on their services (and if they do, they are often pretty lackadaisical in their early collection efforts because they want to maintain customer goodwill).</p><p>The point is that they take on large amounts of risk with consumers about whom they know little.  This seems like a perfectly acceptable way to minimize their risk and lower costs for everyone -- as long as they use the information only for the initial credit check and dispose of it immediately thereafter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work in bankruptcy law .
You may not know this , but people get huge telecommunications debts discharged ( often paying cents , if even , on the dollar ) in bankruptcy - and these companies can act as pretty significant creditors because they do n't heartily demand cash-up-front on their services ( and if they do , they are often pretty lackadaisical in their early collection efforts because they want to maintain customer goodwill ) .The point is that they take on large amounts of risk with consumers about whom they know little .
This seems like a perfectly acceptable way to minimize their risk and lower costs for everyone -- as long as they use the information only for the initial credit check and dispose of it immediately thereafter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work in bankruptcy law.
You may not know this, but people get huge telecommunications debts discharged (often paying cents, if even, on the dollar) in bankruptcy - and these companies can act as pretty significant creditors because they don't heartily demand cash-up-front on their services (and if they do, they are often pretty lackadaisical in their early collection efforts because they want to maintain customer goodwill).The point is that they take on large amounts of risk with consumers about whom they know little.
This seems like a perfectly acceptable way to minimize their risk and lower costs for everyone -- as long as they use the information only for the initial credit check and dispose of it immediately thereafter.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419415</id>
	<title>Re:So ... many people are irresponsible</title>
	<author>bickerdyke</author>
	<datestamp>1245672060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>I offered several other options, including [...] placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500) [...]</p></div> </blockquote></div><p>So.. Obviously it's cheaper for them to lose a handful of costumers than to add alternatives to an external Credit-Check to their sales system.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I offered several other options , including [ ... ] placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ( $ 500 ) [ ... ] So.. Obviously it 's cheaper for them to lose a handful of costumers than to add alternatives to an external Credit-Check to their sales system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I offered several other options, including [...] placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500) [...] So.. Obviously it's cheaper for them to lose a handful of costumers than to add alternatives to an external Credit-Check to their sales system.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418917</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421191</id>
	<title>Try this:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245682380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You: "OK, so I want the Palm-Pre, with this data contract."<br>Them" "OK, thats $BIGNUM per month, plus any other fees we think we can add on without you catching on. I'll need your SSN...."<br>You: "Why do you need my SSN?"<br>Them: "So we can run a credit check."<br>You: "I'll just be putting the bill through to my credit card, can I just give you that information?"<br>Them (reading from script): "I still need your SSN for the credit check."<br>You: "My credit card already has done the check. You will be getting the money from them. All you should need is to check my ID and make sure it's my card."<br>Them (still reading from script): "I still need your SSN for the credit check."<br>You: "So you are saying this service is so expensive that the average person cannot afford it, and so you have to make sure I can pay?"<br>Them: "Uhhhhhhh"<br>You: "If so, then maybe I don't need this after all. After all, if you cannot just go through my credit card...."</p><p>I don't know if that will work, but I do know I have my cell on one of my credit cards, so technically my cell carrier doesn't need to know my credit rating, just that my credit card company is on the level (granted, in this day and age, that may not be a given).</p><p>Simple rule: If you don't like the terms they offer, tell them so, and walk out. IF they see enough money walking out the door, they will change their tune. The only issue is the value of "enough money".</p><p>(but of course this means exercising self-control and accepting the consequences of one's choices - a virtual impossibility for most people now-a-days....)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You : " OK , so I want the Palm-Pre , with this data contract .
" Them " " OK , thats $ BIGNUM per month , plus any other fees we think we can add on without you catching on .
I 'll need your SSN.... " You : " Why do you need my SSN ?
" Them : " So we can run a credit check .
" You : " I 'll just be putting the bill through to my credit card , can I just give you that information ?
" Them ( reading from script ) : " I still need your SSN for the credit check .
" You : " My credit card already has done the check .
You will be getting the money from them .
All you should need is to check my ID and make sure it 's my card .
" Them ( still reading from script ) : " I still need your SSN for the credit check .
" You : " So you are saying this service is so expensive that the average person can not afford it , and so you have to make sure I can pay ?
" Them : " Uhhhhhhh " You : " If so , then maybe I do n't need this after all .
After all , if you can not just go through my credit card.... " I do n't know if that will work , but I do know I have my cell on one of my credit cards , so technically my cell carrier does n't need to know my credit rating , just that my credit card company is on the level ( granted , in this day and age , that may not be a given ) .Simple rule : If you do n't like the terms they offer , tell them so , and walk out .
IF they see enough money walking out the door , they will change their tune .
The only issue is the value of " enough money " .
( but of course this means exercising self-control and accepting the consequences of one 's choices - a virtual impossibility for most people now-a-days.... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You: "OK, so I want the Palm-Pre, with this data contract.
"Them" "OK, thats $BIGNUM per month, plus any other fees we think we can add on without you catching on.
I'll need your SSN...."You: "Why do you need my SSN?
"Them: "So we can run a credit check.
"You: "I'll just be putting the bill through to my credit card, can I just give you that information?
"Them (reading from script): "I still need your SSN for the credit check.
"You: "My credit card already has done the check.
You will be getting the money from them.
All you should need is to check my ID and make sure it's my card.
"Them (still reading from script): "I still need your SSN for the credit check.
"You: "So you are saying this service is so expensive that the average person cannot afford it, and so you have to make sure I can pay?
"Them: "Uhhhhhhh"You: "If so, then maybe I don't need this after all.
After all, if you cannot just go through my credit card...."I don't know if that will work, but I do know I have my cell on one of my credit cards, so technically my cell carrier doesn't need to know my credit rating, just that my credit card company is on the level (granted, in this day and age, that may not be a given).Simple rule: If you don't like the terms they offer, tell them so, and walk out.
IF they see enough money walking out the door, they will change their tune.
The only issue is the value of "enough money".
(but of course this means exercising self-control and accepting the consequences of one's choices - a virtual impossibility for most people now-a-days....)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419919</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245676140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Canada a lot of places will ask for a SSN but it's not required.  It's even technically illegal to ask in many situations, I believe.  They still manage to identify you to check your credit just fine.</p><p>You only get my SSN if you intend to pay me money or you're the government.  If it's the other way around you can have my name and birth date, plus a credit card number if you really need.</p><p>I just moved to a different province and was rather shocked when I got a letter from the power company asking for my SSN.  I ignored it, and they seem perfectly happy with that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Canada a lot of places will ask for a SSN but it 's not required .
It 's even technically illegal to ask in many situations , I believe .
They still manage to identify you to check your credit just fine.You only get my SSN if you intend to pay me money or you 're the government .
If it 's the other way around you can have my name and birth date , plus a credit card number if you really need.I just moved to a different province and was rather shocked when I got a letter from the power company asking for my SSN .
I ignored it , and they seem perfectly happy with that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Canada a lot of places will ask for a SSN but it's not required.
It's even technically illegal to ask in many situations, I believe.
They still manage to identify you to check your credit just fine.You only get my SSN if you intend to pay me money or you're the government.
If it's the other way around you can have my name and birth date, plus a credit card number if you really need.I just moved to a different province and was rather shocked when I got a letter from the power company asking for my SSN.
I ignored it, and they seem perfectly happy with that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419023</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419883</id>
	<title>Weren't SSN's supposed to never be used as an ID?</title>
	<author>jollyreaper</author>
	<datestamp>1245675780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This seems to be one of those things where sure, you can insist on your rights and you'll simply miss out on things. Want a Pre? Then submit. It's a free country, don't be a whiner, yadda yadda. You need a credit check to get a job. Hey, you know what? Someone who's been out of work a while in this economy might have bad credit! Well, we certainly can't let a filthy fucker like that get a head up!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This seems to be one of those things where sure , you can insist on your rights and you 'll simply miss out on things .
Want a Pre ?
Then submit .
It 's a free country , do n't be a whiner , yadda yadda .
You need a credit check to get a job .
Hey , you know what ?
Someone who 's been out of work a while in this economy might have bad credit !
Well , we certainly ca n't let a filthy fucker like that get a head up !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This seems to be one of those things where sure, you can insist on your rights and you'll simply miss out on things.
Want a Pre?
Then submit.
It's a free country, don't be a whiner, yadda yadda.
You need a credit check to get a job.
Hey, you know what?
Someone who's been out of work a while in this economy might have bad credit!
Well, we certainly can't let a filthy fucker like that get a head up!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419439</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>Narcogen</author>
	<datestamp>1245672300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, Palm (and before them Handspring) used to be the BEST option for just getting whatever phone you like and then signing up for service later. Handspring usually sold unlocked GSM phones (like the Visorphones and then the early treos) and even when the 600 and 650 came out I was able to get unlocked devices either day and date with the carrier versions, or shortly thereafter.

Palm has decided they want to play with the big boys, and to sell big numbers you need access to the operator stores, and that means exclusive deals, long contracts, and subsidized handsets, as well as all the nonsense that comes with it, including credit checks and invasive procedures like this.

A shame, really. All around. The US mobile phone market in particular is a shriveled, stunted, twisted thing that makes incompetent mom &amp; pop shops in the third world look good.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , Palm ( and before them Handspring ) used to be the BEST option for just getting whatever phone you like and then signing up for service later .
Handspring usually sold unlocked GSM phones ( like the Visorphones and then the early treos ) and even when the 600 and 650 came out I was able to get unlocked devices either day and date with the carrier versions , or shortly thereafter .
Palm has decided they want to play with the big boys , and to sell big numbers you need access to the operator stores , and that means exclusive deals , long contracts , and subsidized handsets , as well as all the nonsense that comes with it , including credit checks and invasive procedures like this .
A shame , really .
All around .
The US mobile phone market in particular is a shriveled , stunted , twisted thing that makes incompetent mom &amp; pop shops in the third world look good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, Palm (and before them Handspring) used to be the BEST option for just getting whatever phone you like and then signing up for service later.
Handspring usually sold unlocked GSM phones (like the Visorphones and then the early treos) and even when the 600 and 650 came out I was able to get unlocked devices either day and date with the carrier versions, or shortly thereafter.
Palm has decided they want to play with the big boys, and to sell big numbers you need access to the operator stores, and that means exclusive deals, long contracts, and subsidized handsets, as well as all the nonsense that comes with it, including credit checks and invasive procedures like this.
A shame, really.
All around.
The US mobile phone market in particular is a shriveled, stunted, twisted thing that makes incompetent mom &amp; pop shops in the third world look good.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418641</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28422387</id>
	<title>Re:So ... many people are irresponsible</title>
	<author>cockpitcomp</author>
	<datestamp>1245686280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is also irresponsible for carriers to hide the real price. Many young people think you can really get a $99 iPhone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is also irresponsible for carriers to hide the real price .
Many young people think you can really get a $ 99 iPhone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is also irresponsible for carriers to hide the real price.
Many young people think you can really get a $99 iPhone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418805</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421291</id>
	<title>Re:Self credit check</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245682680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"but you can't forge anything when you present it from a website"</p><p>Uh, what? Somebody is greatly misinformed...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" but you ca n't forge anything when you present it from a website " Uh , what ?
Somebody is greatly misinformed.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"but you can't forge anything when you present it from a website"Uh, what?
Somebody is greatly misinformed...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418733</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420709</id>
	<title>Severely missing the point</title>
	<author>zanderredux</author>
	<datestamp>1245680580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You guys are all missing the point. The ssn requirement is there because sprint will be running periodic credit checks on its customers. Sprint is probably subsidizing the phone and, internally, they must have customer activation goals to meet (like, the number of new customers who remain active after X months and so on)
The credit checks are there because, as sprint subsidized the phone, you'll be actually repaying it back in installments through the phone usage fees. they could sell the device at full cost, but then wouldn't be able to force you to sign up for a 18 month contract. After you become a customer, the ssn is used for credit checks. If your credit score indicates trouble, then sprint will use that information to either try to get you to move to another plan or will send the collectors to get their money before you actually miss a payment. This is not about privacy, but about managing an instrument sale.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You guys are all missing the point .
The ssn requirement is there because sprint will be running periodic credit checks on its customers .
Sprint is probably subsidizing the phone and , internally , they must have customer activation goals to meet ( like , the number of new customers who remain active after X months and so on ) The credit checks are there because , as sprint subsidized the phone , you 'll be actually repaying it back in installments through the phone usage fees .
they could sell the device at full cost , but then would n't be able to force you to sign up for a 18 month contract .
After you become a customer , the ssn is used for credit checks .
If your credit score indicates trouble , then sprint will use that information to either try to get you to move to another plan or will send the collectors to get their money before you actually miss a payment .
This is not about privacy , but about managing an instrument sale .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You guys are all missing the point.
The ssn requirement is there because sprint will be running periodic credit checks on its customers.
Sprint is probably subsidizing the phone and, internally, they must have customer activation goals to meet (like, the number of new customers who remain active after X months and so on)
The credit checks are there because, as sprint subsidized the phone, you'll be actually repaying it back in installments through the phone usage fees.
they could sell the device at full cost, but then wouldn't be able to force you to sign up for a 18 month contract.
After you become a customer, the ssn is used for credit checks.
If your credit score indicates trouble, then sprint will use that information to either try to get you to move to another plan or will send the collectors to get their money before you actually miss a payment.
This is not about privacy, but about managing an instrument sale.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421155</id>
	<title>Sprint credit check</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245682260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it is fundamentally a credit transaction.<br>- phone costs sprint more than you pay for it<br>- they subsidize the cost to you, meaning they have to make it up over an extended period of time<br>- if you go bankrupt in month 1 after getting the phone, they will lose a fair amount of money and admin expense. hence the the reason for the credit check to make sure you are someone that pays its bills and will not default.</p><p>Note: not all companies are not out to get you. if you don't like it, go buy something else which probably has the same checks anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it is fundamentally a credit transaction.- phone costs sprint more than you pay for it- they subsidize the cost to you , meaning they have to make it up over an extended period of time- if you go bankrupt in month 1 after getting the phone , they will lose a fair amount of money and admin expense .
hence the the reason for the credit check to make sure you are someone that pays its bills and will not default.Note : not all companies are not out to get you .
if you do n't like it , go buy something else which probably has the same checks anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it is fundamentally a credit transaction.- phone costs sprint more than you pay for it- they subsidize the cost to you, meaning they have to make it up over an extended period of time- if you go bankrupt in month 1 after getting the phone, they will lose a fair amount of money and admin expense.
hence the the reason for the credit check to make sure you are someone that pays its bills and will not default.Note: not all companies are not out to get you.
if you don't like it, go buy something else which probably has the same checks anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28425787</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1245697920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why isn't that reasonable? T hey are, as you said, expensive toys.  If people are willing to pay the price - either directly or through 2-year contracts - then by definition it's not unreasonable.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is n't that reasonable ?
T hey are , as you said , expensive toys .
If people are willing to pay the price - either directly or through 2-year contracts - then by definition it 's not unreasonable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why isn't that reasonable?
T hey are, as you said, expensive toys.
If people are willing to pay the price - either directly or through 2-year contracts - then by definition it's not unreasonable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418865</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419295</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245670980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>yes the current pre is cdma but there is already a gsm prototype http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9694/gsm-palm-pre-spotted-in-the-flesh/ so i dont know why anyone would be saying it iasnt unlockable without a "yet" after it but, hey the fact is you can configure a cdma phone for another network ie verizon but you need to do all the configuring yourself if you want help from a providor yes you are SOL<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>yes the current pre is cdma but there is already a gsm prototype http : //www.palminfocenter.com/news/9694/gsm-palm-pre-spotted-in-the-flesh/ so i dont know why anyone would be saying it iasnt unlockable without a " yet " after it but , hey the fact is you can configure a cdma phone for another network ie verizon but you need to do all the configuring yourself if you want help from a providor yes you are SOL : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yes the current pre is cdma but there is already a gsm prototype http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9694/gsm-palm-pre-spotted-in-the-flesh/ so i dont know why anyone would be saying it iasnt unlockable without a "yet" after it but, hey the fact is you can configure a cdma phone for another network ie verizon but you need to do all the configuring yourself if you want help from a providor yes you are SOL :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419075</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419211</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1245670380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I also would think that a SSN is a Number for your Social Security. It should be used only for that. No excuses, no exception.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I also would think that a SSN is a Number for your Social Security .
It should be used only for that .
No excuses , no exception .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I also would think that a SSN is a Number for your Social Security.
It should be used only for that.
No excuses, no exception.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418813</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418805</id>
	<title>So ... many people are irresponsible</title>
	<author>hattig</author>
	<datestamp>1245666840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So the gist of this story is that the submitter doesn't understand finance?</p><p>A Palm Pre, or any other smartphone, costs a boat load and is subsidised by the carrier, but you need a contract to pay back the cost of the phone. In effect you are getting a $400 - $800 loan, depending on the device, the phone, and the contract/amount it is subsidised.</p><p>Now normal loans (not just "car loans" which are just one type of typically unsecured loan) usually have a credit check because it would be stupid to lend money to someone with a credit history that is all arrears and defaults. The poster probably doesn't realise that many, many people actually live life in debt, arrears and defaulting, and that a simple credit check can remove a lot of risk for the phone companies.</p><p>The obvious solution in this case is to allow someone to buy the Palm Pre at full price, and then supply them with a rolling contract (without subsidy cost factored in).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So the gist of this story is that the submitter does n't understand finance ? A Palm Pre , or any other smartphone , costs a boat load and is subsidised by the carrier , but you need a contract to pay back the cost of the phone .
In effect you are getting a $ 400 - $ 800 loan , depending on the device , the phone , and the contract/amount it is subsidised.Now normal loans ( not just " car loans " which are just one type of typically unsecured loan ) usually have a credit check because it would be stupid to lend money to someone with a credit history that is all arrears and defaults .
The poster probably does n't realise that many , many people actually live life in debt , arrears and defaulting , and that a simple credit check can remove a lot of risk for the phone companies.The obvious solution in this case is to allow someone to buy the Palm Pre at full price , and then supply them with a rolling contract ( without subsidy cost factored in ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So the gist of this story is that the submitter doesn't understand finance?A Palm Pre, or any other smartphone, costs a boat load and is subsidised by the carrier, but you need a contract to pay back the cost of the phone.
In effect you are getting a $400 - $800 loan, depending on the device, the phone, and the contract/amount it is subsidised.Now normal loans (not just "car loans" which are just one type of typically unsecured loan) usually have a credit check because it would be stupid to lend money to someone with a credit history that is all arrears and defaults.
The poster probably doesn't realise that many, many people actually live life in debt, arrears and defaulting, and that a simple credit check can remove a lot of risk for the phone companies.The obvious solution in this case is to allow someone to buy the Palm Pre at full price, and then supply them with a rolling contract (without subsidy cost factored in).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421937</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>Dcnjoe60</author>
	<datestamp>1245684840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, the last four digits by themself are not very useful as they are not unique.  Many SSNs share the last four digits.  Sprint, and other companies that use it must combine it with other information if they are to use it for tracking purposes or profiling.  That is unless they only have 10,000 users.  From a vendor's perspective, it is probably easier for a customer to remember their last four digits of their SSN than a randomly assigned number.</p><p>They collect your ssn, btw, the same reason a bank does.  You are signing a legal contract with them and it is your federal identification number.  If you were a corporation, then they wouldn't want your ssn, but your fein.</p><p>As for your concerns with profiling--do you mean that they can then use this information to see where you are shopping and going on the web, etc.?  I guess they could, if you are doing that from your phone.  But why would they bother, they know specifically which phone is yours and where it's at.  If they were really sneaky, they could use the locater service to find out what stores you drive to.</p><p>So, since they have other and probably better ways to get this same information, we're back to why would they want somebody's SSN in the first place?  The only real answer is that it is required because you are entering into a legal and binding agreement with Sprint (or any other carrier).</p><p>ps. your credit card company also has your SSN.  How do you think all of that info get's to one's credit report?  It's all done by SSN.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , the last four digits by themself are not very useful as they are not unique .
Many SSNs share the last four digits .
Sprint , and other companies that use it must combine it with other information if they are to use it for tracking purposes or profiling .
That is unless they only have 10,000 users .
From a vendor 's perspective , it is probably easier for a customer to remember their last four digits of their SSN than a randomly assigned number.They collect your ssn , btw , the same reason a bank does .
You are signing a legal contract with them and it is your federal identification number .
If you were a corporation , then they would n't want your ssn , but your fein.As for your concerns with profiling--do you mean that they can then use this information to see where you are shopping and going on the web , etc. ?
I guess they could , if you are doing that from your phone .
But why would they bother , they know specifically which phone is yours and where it 's at .
If they were really sneaky , they could use the locater service to find out what stores you drive to.So , since they have other and probably better ways to get this same information , we 're back to why would they want somebody 's SSN in the first place ?
The only real answer is that it is required because you are entering into a legal and binding agreement with Sprint ( or any other carrier ) .ps .
your credit card company also has your SSN .
How do you think all of that info get 's to one 's credit report ?
It 's all done by SSN .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, the last four digits by themself are not very useful as they are not unique.
Many SSNs share the last four digits.
Sprint, and other companies that use it must combine it with other information if they are to use it for tracking purposes or profiling.
That is unless they only have 10,000 users.
From a vendor's perspective, it is probably easier for a customer to remember their last four digits of their SSN than a randomly assigned number.They collect your ssn, btw, the same reason a bank does.
You are signing a legal contract with them and it is your federal identification number.
If you were a corporation, then they wouldn't want your ssn, but your fein.As for your concerns with profiling--do you mean that they can then use this information to see where you are shopping and going on the web, etc.?
I guess they could, if you are doing that from your phone.
But why would they bother, they know specifically which phone is yours and where it's at.
If they were really sneaky, they could use the locater service to find out what stores you drive to.So, since they have other and probably better ways to get this same information, we're back to why would they want somebody's SSN in the first place?
The only real answer is that it is required because you are entering into a legal and binding agreement with Sprint (or any other carrier).ps.
your credit card company also has your SSN.
How do you think all of that info get's to one's credit report?
It's all done by SSN.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418779</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420549</id>
	<title>Re:Credit Rating Agencies in the US...</title>
	<author>ceoyoyo</author>
	<datestamp>1245679920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They do perfectly well in Canada too.  VISA and Mastercard occasionally do a verification thing on the web where they make sure you're you.  Starting from your name and birthdate and/or a credit card number, they ask you a series of multiple choice questions about your history.  Did you have a loan for $X, $Y or $Z in 1993?  Did you attend school here, here or here?  Did you live on Pine St, Oak St or Elm St in 2001?</p><p>It's kind of creepy, actually.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They do perfectly well in Canada too .
VISA and Mastercard occasionally do a verification thing on the web where they make sure you 're you .
Starting from your name and birthdate and/or a credit card number , they ask you a series of multiple choice questions about your history .
Did you have a loan for $ X , $ Y or $ Z in 1993 ?
Did you attend school here , here or here ?
Did you live on Pine St , Oak St or Elm St in 2001 ? It 's kind of creepy , actually .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They do perfectly well in Canada too.
VISA and Mastercard occasionally do a verification thing on the web where they make sure you're you.
Starting from your name and birthdate and/or a credit card number, they ask you a series of multiple choice questions about your history.
Did you have a loan for $X, $Y or $Z in 1993?
Did you attend school here, here or here?
Did you live on Pine St, Oak St or Elm St in 2001?It's kind of creepy, actually.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419249</id>
	<title>Here's something worse</title>
	<author>\_\_david\_\_</author>
	<datestamp>1245670680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I tried to sign up for Verizon's wireless data service they wouldn't let me pass the credit check without a land line. I tried to tell them I didn't have a land line but they couldn't cope with that. Eventually the girl at the counter gave her sister's apartment number to the credit check guys (she didn't have a land line either). Got to love unbending bureaucracy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I tried to sign up for Verizon 's wireless data service they would n't let me pass the credit check without a land line .
I tried to tell them I did n't have a land line but they could n't cope with that .
Eventually the girl at the counter gave her sister 's apartment number to the credit check guys ( she did n't have a land line either ) .
Got to love unbending bureaucracy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I tried to sign up for Verizon's wireless data service they wouldn't let me pass the credit check without a land line.
I tried to tell them I didn't have a land line but they couldn't cope with that.
Eventually the girl at the counter gave her sister's apartment number to the credit check guys (she didn't have a land line either).
Got to love unbending bureaucracy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419821</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>FrozenGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1245675360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, the problem is deeper than that.  Phone companies in the US (and, I think, Canada) are legally required to serve as the billing agent for third-party service providers (long distance, sex-chat lines, etc).  Given that situation, they do need to understand how big a balance they should let you run.

I wonder if we could not resolve the issue by allowing the end consumer to sign a waiver that would allow the phone company to bow out as the billing agent (note:  that would mean that you, the end consumer, would not be able to buy third-party services that required the phone company to handle the billing).  Yes, it would require work on the software on telephone switches and billing computers.  But then the relationship between the phone company and you would be a direct relationship dealing with cellular service only.  Should not need SSN for that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , the problem is deeper than that .
Phone companies in the US ( and , I think , Canada ) are legally required to serve as the billing agent for third-party service providers ( long distance , sex-chat lines , etc ) .
Given that situation , they do need to understand how big a balance they should let you run .
I wonder if we could not resolve the issue by allowing the end consumer to sign a waiver that would allow the phone company to bow out as the billing agent ( note : that would mean that you , the end consumer , would not be able to buy third-party services that required the phone company to handle the billing ) .
Yes , it would require work on the software on telephone switches and billing computers .
But then the relationship between the phone company and you would be a direct relationship dealing with cellular service only .
Should not need SSN for that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, the problem is deeper than that.
Phone companies in the US (and, I think, Canada) are legally required to serve as the billing agent for third-party service providers (long distance, sex-chat lines, etc).
Given that situation, they do need to understand how big a balance they should let you run.
I wonder if we could not resolve the issue by allowing the end consumer to sign a waiver that would allow the phone company to bow out as the billing agent (note:  that would mean that you, the end consumer, would not be able to buy third-party services that required the phone company to handle the billing).
Yes, it would require work on the software on telephone switches and billing computers.
But then the relationship between the phone company and you would be a direct relationship dealing with cellular service only.
Should not need SSN for that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420773</id>
	<title>SSN's</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245680820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unless you are an employer, or a bank or the Federal government, never EVER give out your SSN.</p><p>Your are just being stupid.</p><p>If you are renting, have your previous places you rent at provide a reference.</p><p>First time?   Have your mom or Dad cosign.</p><p>The SSN should not be used for anything else.</p><p>Do so at your own peril.</p><p>-Hack</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless you are an employer , or a bank or the Federal government , never EVER give out your SSN.Your are just being stupid.If you are renting , have your previous places you rent at provide a reference.First time ?
Have your mom or Dad cosign.The SSN should not be used for anything else.Do so at your own peril.-Hack</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless you are an employer, or a bank or the Federal government, never EVER give out your SSN.Your are just being stupid.If you are renting, have your previous places you rent at provide a reference.First time?
Have your mom or Dad cosign.The SSN should not be used for anything else.Do so at your own peril.-Hack</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420997</id>
	<title>Screw Sprint And The Horse They Rode In On</title>
	<author>Toad-san</author>
	<datestamp>1245681660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I assume my identity (or at least my SSAN) has already been stolen.  I was in the Army, after all, and they used SSAN's for years, replacing the old serial number.  Big mistake IMHO, but that's neither here nor there.</p><p>But I'll be damned if I'll encourage anyone else to use that number.  Screw 'em.  I'd even fight the IRS about the issue if it weren't such a PITA dealing with the IRS about anything at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I assume my identity ( or at least my SSAN ) has already been stolen .
I was in the Army , after all , and they used SSAN 's for years , replacing the old serial number .
Big mistake IMHO , but that 's neither here nor there.But I 'll be damned if I 'll encourage anyone else to use that number .
Screw 'em .
I 'd even fight the IRS about the issue if it were n't such a PITA dealing with the IRS about anything at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I assume my identity (or at least my SSAN) has already been stolen.
I was in the Army, after all, and they used SSAN's for years, replacing the old serial number.
Big mistake IMHO, but that's neither here nor there.But I'll be damned if I'll encourage anyone else to use that number.
Screw 'em.
I'd even fight the IRS about the issue if it weren't such a PITA dealing with the IRS about anything at all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421799</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>mishehu</author>
	<datestamp>1245684420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is all funny, so funny it makes me laugh.  Since if you open up a business account in a different state than you are incorporated in, apparently nothing is required at all!  About 1 1/2 years ago I received a bill for several hundred dollars for 3 handsets bought in my company's name in Indiana, and the person who opened up the account claimed his name was Chris [insert the name of my company here].  Funny, I didn't name the company after myself...  I think they had an inside man at that Sprint store though too.  Needless to say, they did drop the account and rescinded the bill for it as it was obviously fraudulent.  I already had a personal Sprint account for a few years...</p><p>I still hate how all these companies still use such easy-to-obtain information as a method to verify a person's identity...  Mother's maiden name?  Probably not as hard as they think it is to find out.  And last four digits of your social?  Well it certainly wasn't hard if you were a student of <a href="http://www.cod.edu/" title="cod.edu">College of DuPage</a> [cod.edu] when they initially rolled out student e-mail accounts in August of 2005.  Somebody ever-so-wisely  thought it was a great idea to use this convention for the e-mail addresses:  familyname.firstname.XXXX@dupage.net, where XXXX was...  lo and behold...  the last 4 digits of your SSN...  As soon as I received word of this (I was a student at the time), I contacted the business and computing department, who stepped in, pitched up a fit on my behalf (and on the behalf of all that is sane in the world), and fixed the situation with the department responsible for this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is all funny , so funny it makes me laugh .
Since if you open up a business account in a different state than you are incorporated in , apparently nothing is required at all !
About 1 1/2 years ago I received a bill for several hundred dollars for 3 handsets bought in my company 's name in Indiana , and the person who opened up the account claimed his name was Chris [ insert the name of my company here ] .
Funny , I did n't name the company after myself... I think they had an inside man at that Sprint store though too .
Needless to say , they did drop the account and rescinded the bill for it as it was obviously fraudulent .
I already had a personal Sprint account for a few years...I still hate how all these companies still use such easy-to-obtain information as a method to verify a person 's identity... Mother 's maiden name ?
Probably not as hard as they think it is to find out .
And last four digits of your social ?
Well it certainly was n't hard if you were a student of College of DuPage [ cod.edu ] when they initially rolled out student e-mail accounts in August of 2005 .
Somebody ever-so-wisely thought it was a great idea to use this convention for the e-mail addresses : familyname.firstname.XXXX @ dupage.net , where XXXX was... lo and behold... the last 4 digits of your SSN... As soon as I received word of this ( I was a student at the time ) , I contacted the business and computing department , who stepped in , pitched up a fit on my behalf ( and on the behalf of all that is sane in the world ) , and fixed the situation with the department responsible for this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is all funny, so funny it makes me laugh.
Since if you open up a business account in a different state than you are incorporated in, apparently nothing is required at all!
About 1 1/2 years ago I received a bill for several hundred dollars for 3 handsets bought in my company's name in Indiana, and the person who opened up the account claimed his name was Chris [insert the name of my company here].
Funny, I didn't name the company after myself...  I think they had an inside man at that Sprint store though too.
Needless to say, they did drop the account and rescinded the bill for it as it was obviously fraudulent.
I already had a personal Sprint account for a few years...I still hate how all these companies still use such easy-to-obtain information as a method to verify a person's identity...  Mother's maiden name?
Probably not as hard as they think it is to find out.
And last four digits of your social?
Well it certainly wasn't hard if you were a student of College of DuPage [cod.edu] when they initially rolled out student e-mail accounts in August of 2005.
Somebody ever-so-wisely  thought it was a great idea to use this convention for the e-mail addresses:  familyname.firstname.XXXX@dupage.net, where XXXX was...  lo and behold...  the last 4 digits of your SSN...  As soon as I received word of this (I was a student at the time), I contacted the business and computing department, who stepped in, pitched up a fit on my behalf (and on the behalf of all that is sane in the world), and fixed the situation with the department responsible for this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418779</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418917</id>
	<title>Re:So ... many people are irresponsible</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1245667980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>So the gist of this story is that the submitter doesn't understand finance? A Palm Pre [...] costs a boat load and is subsidised by the carrier, but you need a contract to pay back the cost of the phone. In effect you are getting a $400 - $800 loan [...]</p></div></blockquote><p>So the gist of your post is that you don't read the story? In particular, this part:</p><blockquote><div><p>I offered several other options, including [...] placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500) [...]</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So the gist of this story is that the submitter does n't understand finance ?
A Palm Pre [ ... ] costs a boat load and is subsidised by the carrier , but you need a contract to pay back the cost of the phone .
In effect you are getting a $ 400 - $ 800 loan [ ... ] So the gist of your post is that you do n't read the story ?
In particular , this part : I offered several other options , including [ ... ] placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ( $ 500 ) [ ... ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So the gist of this story is that the submitter doesn't understand finance?
A Palm Pre [...] costs a boat load and is subsidised by the carrier, but you need a contract to pay back the cost of the phone.
In effect you are getting a $400 - $800 loan [...]So the gist of your post is that you don't read the story?
In particular, this part:I offered several other options, including [...] placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500) [...]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418805</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419075</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>dark42</author>
	<datestamp>1245669240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except the Pre is a CDMA phone, and therefore is not unlockable. There is no SIM card, and I doubt Sprint would activate the phone for you if you somehow managed to obtain a Pre without buying it from them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except the Pre is a CDMA phone , and therefore is not unlockable .
There is no SIM card , and I doubt Sprint would activate the phone for you if you somehow managed to obtain a Pre without buying it from them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except the Pre is a CDMA phone, and therefore is not unlockable.
There is no SIM card, and I doubt Sprint would activate the phone for you if you somehow managed to obtain a Pre without buying it from them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419877</id>
	<title>So much requires a SSN in the U.S.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245675780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>For example, at Montclair State University they ask you for your SSN whenever you want to take out a library book.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For example , at Montclair State University they ask you for your SSN whenever you want to take out a library book .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For example, at Montclair State University they ask you for your SSN whenever you want to take out a library book.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421113</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>MrCrassic</author>
	<datestamp>1245682140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just like the RAZR was $500 or so when it was first released, and all of the Treo smartphones were over $700 unlocked at retail...
<br> <br>
It might be unreasonable, but it's certainly nothing new. If you want to go for the gold without the contract, you'll pay for it. AFAIK, that's the way it's always been.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just like the RAZR was $ 500 or so when it was first released , and all of the Treo smartphones were over $ 700 unlocked at retail.. . It might be unreasonable , but it 's certainly nothing new .
If you want to go for the gold without the contract , you 'll pay for it .
AFAIK , that 's the way it 's always been .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just like the RAZR was $500 or so when it was first released, and all of the Treo smartphones were over $700 unlocked at retail...
 
It might be unreasonable, but it's certainly nothing new.
If you want to go for the gold without the contract, you'll pay for it.
AFAIK, that's the way it's always been.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418865</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420921</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245681360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's poor logic and utter FUD.  The carrier has the ability to shut off your service at any time.  On any day at any minute they can have their computers disable your phone because you've gone over your perceived ability to pay in additional charges.</p><p>They don't either out of sheer laziness or because its much more fun to charge you and hope they get the money.</p><p>if customer['usage'] &gt; customer['limit']:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; if not call['type'] == EMERGENCY:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; return CALL\_REFUSED;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's poor logic and utter FUD .
The carrier has the ability to shut off your service at any time .
On any day at any minute they can have their computers disable your phone because you 've gone over your perceived ability to pay in additional charges.They do n't either out of sheer laziness or because its much more fun to charge you and hope they get the money.if customer [ 'usage ' ] &gt; customer [ 'limit ' ] :           if not call [ 'type ' ] = = EMERGENCY :                     return CALL \ _REFUSED ;</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's poor logic and utter FUD.
The carrier has the ability to shut off your service at any time.
On any day at any minute they can have their computers disable your phone because you've gone over your perceived ability to pay in additional charges.They don't either out of sheer laziness or because its much more fun to charge you and hope they get the money.if customer['usage'] &gt; customer['limit']:
          if not call['type'] == EMERGENCY:
                    return CALL\_REFUSED;</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418937</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28425063</id>
	<title>Re:Credit Raitings</title>
	<author>taustin</author>
	<datestamp>1245695400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While you may not have any credit <em>history</em>, everybody has a credit <em>score</em>. There's some kind of default value that means "pays for everything in cash," but the credit score also factors in stuff like utility bills (do you pay those with cash) and, if they can figure it out, and they likely can, your annual income.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While you may not have any credit history , everybody has a credit score .
There 's some kind of default value that means " pays for everything in cash , " but the credit score also factors in stuff like utility bills ( do you pay those with cash ) and , if they can figure it out , and they likely can , your annual income .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While you may not have any credit history, everybody has a credit score.
There's some kind of default value that means "pays for everything in cash," but the credit score also factors in stuff like utility bills (do you pay those with cash) and, if they can figure it out, and they likely can, your annual income.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420107</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421955</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245684960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm pretty sure that the "not for identification" tag means that I can't show it to a cop and say, "I can prove I'm AnonymousCoward! It says so right here on my SS card!" IE, it's not a valid ID to carry, as it doesn't have a picture or anything.</p><p>However, the fact that the social security card can be used as a secondary form of ID for getting a Driver's License, passport, or a job sorta defeats the notion of businesses "abusing" the SSN card in this way, as government agencies have been using it for that purpose for a while now....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pretty sure that the " not for identification " tag means that I ca n't show it to a cop and say , " I can prove I 'm AnonymousCoward !
It says so right here on my SS card !
" IE , it 's not a valid ID to carry , as it does n't have a picture or anything.However , the fact that the social security card can be used as a secondary form of ID for getting a Driver 's License , passport , or a job sorta defeats the notion of businesses " abusing " the SSN card in this way , as government agencies have been using it for that purpose for a while now... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pretty sure that the "not for identification" tag means that I can't show it to a cop and say, "I can prove I'm AnonymousCoward!
It says so right here on my SS card!
" IE, it's not a valid ID to carry, as it doesn't have a picture or anything.However, the fact that the social security card can be used as a secondary form of ID for getting a Driver's License, passport, or a job sorta defeats the notion of businesses "abusing" the SSN card in this way, as government agencies have been using it for that purpose for a while now....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419431</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28431749</id>
	<title>Alternative to SSN</title>
	<author>crossmr</author>
	<datestamp>1245675480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A few years ago I read that you can contact the IRS and ask for a number to use for credit checks if you don't want to give out your SSN.<br>not being american, I don't know if its true or what the process is, just an article I read in passing about identity theft.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A few years ago I read that you can contact the IRS and ask for a number to use for credit checks if you do n't want to give out your SSN.not being american , I do n't know if its true or what the process is , just an article I read in passing about identity theft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A few years ago I read that you can contact the IRS and ask for a number to use for credit checks if you don't want to give out your SSN.not being american, I don't know if its true or what the process is, just an article I read in passing about identity theft.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419875</id>
	<title>Welcome to the US</title>
	<author>jht</author>
	<datestamp>1245675720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's how it works in the US - if you want to open up a postpaid cell account you'll have to give them the info they need to access your credit report.  And the agencies use your SSN to identify you.  Game over.</p><p>Don't like that?  Get a prepaid cellphone.  You probably won't be able to buy the "hottest" models or just-launched phones like the Pre (iPhones aren't available for prepaid, either).  With the CDMA providers (Sprint and Verizon) it's a PITA to change anything but you can get the GSM phone of your choice when it's available unlocked and then use it with an AT&amp;T or T-Mobile prepaid account SIM. No credit checks or SSN required that way.</p><p>(Also, if you have a cheap-ish phone on a contract and it breaks, you can replace it with a prepaid phone from the same vendor and that way be able to get a replacement without affecting contract issues.  I did this for my in-laws when their phone broke.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's how it works in the US - if you want to open up a postpaid cell account you 'll have to give them the info they need to access your credit report .
And the agencies use your SSN to identify you .
Game over.Do n't like that ?
Get a prepaid cellphone .
You probably wo n't be able to buy the " hottest " models or just-launched phones like the Pre ( iPhones are n't available for prepaid , either ) .
With the CDMA providers ( Sprint and Verizon ) it 's a PITA to change anything but you can get the GSM phone of your choice when it 's available unlocked and then use it with an AT&amp;T or T-Mobile prepaid account SIM .
No credit checks or SSN required that way .
( Also , if you have a cheap-ish phone on a contract and it breaks , you can replace it with a prepaid phone from the same vendor and that way be able to get a replacement without affecting contract issues .
I did this for my in-laws when their phone broke .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's how it works in the US - if you want to open up a postpaid cell account you'll have to give them the info they need to access your credit report.
And the agencies use your SSN to identify you.
Game over.Don't like that?
Get a prepaid cellphone.
You probably won't be able to buy the "hottest" models or just-launched phones like the Pre (iPhones aren't available for prepaid, either).
With the CDMA providers (Sprint and Verizon) it's a PITA to change anything but you can get the GSM phone of your choice when it's available unlocked and then use it with an AT&amp;T or T-Mobile prepaid account SIM.
No credit checks or SSN required that way.
(Also, if you have a cheap-ish phone on a contract and it breaks, you can replace it with a prepaid phone from the same vendor and that way be able to get a replacement without affecting contract issues.
I did this for my in-laws when their phone broke.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28425687</id>
	<title>Verizon too</title>
	<author>certsoft</author>
	<datestamp>1245697500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I went to the Verizon small business site and tried to sign up for a corporate account for the wireless broadband service. Their online form wanted a person's name (no space for corporate name) and drivers license and SSN. Since C Corporations don't have either they lost a sale.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I went to the Verizon small business site and tried to sign up for a corporate account for the wireless broadband service .
Their online form wanted a person 's name ( no space for corporate name ) and drivers license and SSN .
Since C Corporations do n't have either they lost a sale .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went to the Verizon small business site and tried to sign up for a corporate account for the wireless broadband service.
Their online form wanted a person's name (no space for corporate name) and drivers license and SSN.
Since C Corporations don't have either they lost a sale.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421509</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245683460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>WTF dude?  He has been in office for less than 5 months.  How about 8 years of Reagan, 4 years of Bush and another 8 of Bush - none of them touched this problem in 20 years.  Yet you (appear to be) so freaking peeved that your candidate didn't win that you make up names for the President and slag him for issues that have existed for your entire life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WTF dude ?
He has been in office for less than 5 months .
How about 8 years of Reagan , 4 years of Bush and another 8 of Bush - none of them touched this problem in 20 years .
Yet you ( appear to be ) so freaking peeved that your candidate did n't win that you make up names for the President and slag him for issues that have existed for your entire life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WTF dude?
He has been in office for less than 5 months.
How about 8 years of Reagan, 4 years of Bush and another 8 of Bush - none of them touched this problem in 20 years.
Yet you (appear to be) so freaking peeved that your candidate didn't win that you make up names for the President and slag him for issues that have existed for your entire life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419431</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418731</id>
	<title>It's a Trap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245666300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>         Asking for that SSN to run a credit check is half of the problem. The second half is that credit is the worst thing to happen to working people and society as a whole. Almost all of us would be better off if we had really lousy credit ratings, Instead we have gotten to the point that we must have credit to house ourselves, to transport ourselves and now to simply get a phone. Wage slave is not a goal that one wants to reach. End credit and watch the prices of homes, cars etc. fall to reasonable levels.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Asking for that SSN to run a credit check is half of the problem .
The second half is that credit is the worst thing to happen to working people and society as a whole .
Almost all of us would be better off if we had really lousy credit ratings , Instead we have gotten to the point that we must have credit to house ourselves , to transport ourselves and now to simply get a phone .
Wage slave is not a goal that one wants to reach .
End credit and watch the prices of homes , cars etc .
fall to reasonable levels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>         Asking for that SSN to run a credit check is half of the problem.
The second half is that credit is the worst thing to happen to working people and society as a whole.
Almost all of us would be better off if we had really lousy credit ratings, Instead we have gotten to the point that we must have credit to house ourselves, to transport ourselves and now to simply get a phone.
Wage slave is not a goal that one wants to reach.
End credit and watch the prices of homes, cars etc.
fall to reasonable levels.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419961</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>jollyreaper</author>
	<datestamp>1245676440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The G1 is about $450 outright, which is still too high to be called 'reasonable', but it's a lot closer.</p><p>These new toys are expensive. Period.</p></div><p>They're sports cars. Sure, be nice to have, might fancy having one, but there's no way I could afford it. (yes, a sports care is a little less affordable than a Pre but if it's too much money for me, it may as well be a cell phone or that oil sheik's custom Airbus.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The G1 is about $ 450 outright , which is still too high to be called 'reasonable ' , but it 's a lot closer.These new toys are expensive .
Period.They 're sports cars .
Sure , be nice to have , might fancy having one , but there 's no way I could afford it .
( yes , a sports care is a little less affordable than a Pre but if it 's too much money for me , it may as well be a cell phone or that oil sheik 's custom Airbus .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The G1 is about $450 outright, which is still too high to be called 'reasonable', but it's a lot closer.These new toys are expensive.
Period.They're sports cars.
Sure, be nice to have, might fancy having one, but there's no way I could afford it.
(yes, a sports care is a little less affordable than a Pre but if it's too much money for me, it may as well be a cell phone or that oil sheik's custom Airbus.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418865</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28440529</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>bruceslog</author>
	<datestamp>1245778380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Acquiring new credit isn't the issue here.<br>The use of citizens SS numbers is the issue.<br>Your SSN is your personal bank account number for your retirement.<br>Last I knew, nobody, niether business, was legally allowed to deny one services for refusing to disclose their retirement bank account<br>( SSN ) number. It's NOT supposed to be an ID number or a credit number.<br>Your retirement account is supposed to be the ONLY reason you have that number.<br>This is the main reason that the IRS is mandated to issue and allow the use of Tax ID numbers for taxation purposes.</p><p>The reason for these laws is to be able to safe guard ones retirement bank acocunt ( SSN ) number.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Acquiring new credit is n't the issue here.The use of citizens SS numbers is the issue.Your SSN is your personal bank account number for your retirement.Last I knew , nobody , niether business , was legally allowed to deny one services for refusing to disclose their retirement bank account ( SSN ) number .
It 's NOT supposed to be an ID number or a credit number.Your retirement account is supposed to be the ONLY reason you have that number.This is the main reason that the IRS is mandated to issue and allow the use of Tax ID numbers for taxation purposes.The reason for these laws is to be able to safe guard ones retirement bank acocunt ( SSN ) number .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Acquiring new credit isn't the issue here.The use of citizens SS numbers is the issue.Your SSN is your personal bank account number for your retirement.Last I knew, nobody, niether business, was legally allowed to deny one services for refusing to disclose their retirement bank account( SSN ) number.
It's NOT supposed to be an ID number or a credit number.Your retirement account is supposed to be the ONLY reason you have that number.This is the main reason that the IRS is mandated to issue and allow the use of Tax ID numbers for taxation purposes.The reason for these laws is to be able to safe guard ones retirement bank acocunt ( SSN ) number.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419023</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419139</id>
	<title>Try 000-00-0000</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245669840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some time ago I was in a Sprint store when a customer with no SSN wanted to start a contract.  The rep didn't know how to handle it, so she called a support number.  The solution?  She was told to enter all zeros and that the only consequence would be the new customer would have to pay the maximum security deposit.</p><p>Things may have changed, but it seems more likely that the rep was just to lazy to find out the real solution.</p><p>That said, I despise Sprint and always try to steer friends and family away from their service.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some time ago I was in a Sprint store when a customer with no SSN wanted to start a contract .
The rep did n't know how to handle it , so she called a support number .
The solution ?
She was told to enter all zeros and that the only consequence would be the new customer would have to pay the maximum security deposit.Things may have changed , but it seems more likely that the rep was just to lazy to find out the real solution.That said , I despise Sprint and always try to steer friends and family away from their service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some time ago I was in a Sprint store when a customer with no SSN wanted to start a contract.
The rep didn't know how to handle it, so she called a support number.
The solution?
She was told to enter all zeros and that the only consequence would be the new customer would have to pay the maximum security deposit.Things may have changed, but it seems more likely that the rep was just to lazy to find out the real solution.That said, I despise Sprint and always try to steer friends and family away from their service.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419023</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>Dredd13</author>
	<datestamp>1245668880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's less about "because you are signing a contract" than it is because they are, in point of fact, extending you credit, in the form of allowing you to rack up usage charges that they will bill you for after the fact. They may not disclose what your credit limit is on that front, but believe me, behind the scenes, that number -- how far into usage charges they will let you get without payment -- has been calculated to the penny and stored in your account info.</p><p>Why do they retain this information? Like any other creditor they know that your credit situation changes, and they will periodically 're-check' your credit to see if their internal number for your credit-worthiness needs to be adjusted up or down as time goes on.</p><p>Put the tin-foil hats away, folks. Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies, there's "nothing to see here."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's less about " because you are signing a contract " than it is because they are , in point of fact , extending you credit , in the form of allowing you to rack up usage charges that they will bill you for after the fact .
They may not disclose what your credit limit is on that front , but believe me , behind the scenes , that number -- how far into usage charges they will let you get without payment -- has been calculated to the penny and stored in your account info.Why do they retain this information ?
Like any other creditor they know that your credit situation changes , and they will periodically 're-check ' your credit to see if their internal number for your credit-worthiness needs to be adjusted up or down as time goes on.Put the tin-foil hats away , folks .
Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies , there 's " nothing to see here .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's less about "because you are signing a contract" than it is because they are, in point of fact, extending you credit, in the form of allowing you to rack up usage charges that they will bill you for after the fact.
They may not disclose what your credit limit is on that front, but believe me, behind the scenes, that number -- how far into usage charges they will let you get without payment -- has been calculated to the penny and stored in your account info.Why do they retain this information?
Like any other creditor they know that your credit situation changes, and they will periodically 're-check' your credit to see if their internal number for your credit-worthiness needs to be adjusted up or down as time goes on.Put the tin-foil hats away, folks.
Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies, there's "nothing to see here.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418779</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420185</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>NeoSkandranon</author>
	<datestamp>1245677940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Prices are certainly reasonable to some folks, they're being purchased after all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Prices are certainly reasonable to some folks , they 're being purchased after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Prices are certainly reasonable to some folks, they're being purchased after all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418865</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420139</id>
	<title>Lessons learned</title>
	<author>jonnyredbeard</author>
	<datestamp>1245677700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sprint at one time approved everyone with no deposit.  This came to a bad end as they were forced to write off millions in unpaid accounts.  It is one of the reasons the company is doing so bad.  Even when they approved everyone with no deposit they still required a credit check.  Those exceptions who did not get "approved" were those who still owed Sprint money from previous service.
All phone prices are subsidized and they give you a break on the price by you agreeing to a service contract.  Sprint offers a no contract deal at a 10 dollar a month penalty and you pay full retail for the phone.  They still require a credit check.  If you have a low 400 - 650 score on your credit you are most likely not going to pay your bill.  They are in buisness and have a right to protect thier interests ie profits.  I am baffled that this gentlement doesn't remember giving his ssn to verizon when he signed a contract with them.

Off course thier is a way to not give your ssn and still have credit run.  It takes a while and in the end they still get your ssn. Most retailers wont use this method because it is a pain in the backside.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sprint at one time approved everyone with no deposit .
This came to a bad end as they were forced to write off millions in unpaid accounts .
It is one of the reasons the company is doing so bad .
Even when they approved everyone with no deposit they still required a credit check .
Those exceptions who did not get " approved " were those who still owed Sprint money from previous service .
All phone prices are subsidized and they give you a break on the price by you agreeing to a service contract .
Sprint offers a no contract deal at a 10 dollar a month penalty and you pay full retail for the phone .
They still require a credit check .
If you have a low 400 - 650 score on your credit you are most likely not going to pay your bill .
They are in buisness and have a right to protect thier interests ie profits .
I am baffled that this gentlement does n't remember giving his ssn to verizon when he signed a contract with them .
Off course thier is a way to not give your ssn and still have credit run .
It takes a while and in the end they still get your ssn .
Most retailers wont use this method because it is a pain in the backside .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sprint at one time approved everyone with no deposit.
This came to a bad end as they were forced to write off millions in unpaid accounts.
It is one of the reasons the company is doing so bad.
Even when they approved everyone with no deposit they still required a credit check.
Those exceptions who did not get "approved" were those who still owed Sprint money from previous service.
All phone prices are subsidized and they give you a break on the price by you agreeing to a service contract.
Sprint offers a no contract deal at a 10 dollar a month penalty and you pay full retail for the phone.
They still require a credit check.
If you have a low 400 - 650 score on your credit you are most likely not going to pay your bill.
They are in buisness and have a right to protect thier interests ie profits.
I am baffled that this gentlement doesn't remember giving his ssn to verizon when he signed a contract with them.
Off course thier is a way to not give your ssn and still have credit run.
It takes a while and in the end they still get your ssn.
Most retailers wont use this method because it is a pain in the backside.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28426707</id>
	<title>Re:SSN = National ID Number</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245701340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The package will be nice and complete once the Fed starts to force collection of fingerprints and DNA from everyone; it is coming... Most Americans don't have any understanding about privacy and security. "If you have nothing to hide" and all that, is the typical, brainless, response.</p></div><p>The current regime will do away with any remaining semblance of privacy with the mandate of electronic health records - kept, of course, by the government.  The people will go along with it, since "healthcare is a right".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The package will be nice and complete once the Fed starts to force collection of fingerprints and DNA from everyone ; it is coming... Most Americans do n't have any understanding about privacy and security .
" If you have nothing to hide " and all that , is the typical , brainless , response.The current regime will do away with any remaining semblance of privacy with the mandate of electronic health records - kept , of course , by the government .
The people will go along with it , since " healthcare is a right " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The package will be nice and complete once the Fed starts to force collection of fingerprints and DNA from everyone; it is coming... Most Americans don't have any understanding about privacy and security.
"If you have nothing to hide" and all that, is the typical, brainless, response.The current regime will do away with any remaining semblance of privacy with the mandate of electronic health records - kept, of course, by the government.
The people will go along with it, since "healthcare is a right".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418761</id>
	<title>They all require SSNs</title>
	<author>rennerik</author>
	<datestamp>1245666600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>... well, at least, the ones I've had experience with.<br>
<br>
I've been with T-Mobile (BlackBerry), AT&amp;T (iPhone), and now Sprint (Pre), and they all asked for SSN when signing up.  I don't think any place is going to let you into a contract with a subsidized phone without running a credit check (hence the SSN request), especially with the economy in the shape it is nowadays.<br>
<br>
Did you have experience at another provider that didn't ask for an SSN when selling you a subsidized phone?</htmltext>
<tokenext>... well , at least , the ones I 've had experience with .
I 've been with T-Mobile ( BlackBerry ) , AT&amp;T ( iPhone ) , and now Sprint ( Pre ) , and they all asked for SSN when signing up .
I do n't think any place is going to let you into a contract with a subsidized phone without running a credit check ( hence the SSN request ) , especially with the economy in the shape it is nowadays .
Did you have experience at another provider that did n't ask for an SSN when selling you a subsidized phone ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... well, at least, the ones I've had experience with.
I've been with T-Mobile (BlackBerry), AT&amp;T (iPhone), and now Sprint (Pre), and they all asked for SSN when signing up.
I don't think any place is going to let you into a contract with a subsidized phone without running a credit check (hence the SSN request), especially with the economy in the shape it is nowadays.
Did you have experience at another provider that didn't ask for an SSN when selling you a subsidized phone?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28429413</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>Dryth</author>
	<datestamp>1245666900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A small deposit almost always negates the need for a credit check already.</p><p>I moved to the US four years ago and thanks to a fubar with INS I wasn't able to get a SSN for three months. Each time I signed a new contract the respective company would insist on a SSN until I identified that I was a Canadian, didn't have one yet, and didn't have a US credit history. In every case I was given the option of paying a deposit equal to approximately 1-2 months worth of service on top of any initial charges, normally refunded after 12 months of service.</p><p>I managed to rent an apartment, sign up for home phone, internet, cable, cell and utility accounts, along with securing bank and Visa accounts, with no pieces of ID and a wad of cash.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A small deposit almost always negates the need for a credit check already.I moved to the US four years ago and thanks to a fubar with INS I was n't able to get a SSN for three months .
Each time I signed a new contract the respective company would insist on a SSN until I identified that I was a Canadian , did n't have one yet , and did n't have a US credit history .
In every case I was given the option of paying a deposit equal to approximately 1-2 months worth of service on top of any initial charges , normally refunded after 12 months of service.I managed to rent an apartment , sign up for home phone , internet , cable , cell and utility accounts , along with securing bank and Visa accounts , with no pieces of ID and a wad of cash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A small deposit almost always negates the need for a credit check already.I moved to the US four years ago and thanks to a fubar with INS I wasn't able to get a SSN for three months.
Each time I signed a new contract the respective company would insist on a SSN until I identified that I was a Canadian, didn't have one yet, and didn't have a US credit history.
In every case I was given the option of paying a deposit equal to approximately 1-2 months worth of service on top of any initial charges, normally refunded after 12 months of service.I managed to rent an apartment, sign up for home phone, internet, cable, cell and utility accounts, along with securing bank and Visa accounts, with no pieces of ID and a wad of cash.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28423029</id>
	<title>Screaming SSNs in a crowded store!</title>
	<author>BrianPatrick</author>
	<datestamp>1245688500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hi,
What hacks me off is the contempt the store jerks have for the security of your social security number. "We got a phone here for 334-55-9870. Come to the front desk to pickup your phone!" Everybody in the room can hear your number. If I were an illegal alien or identity thief, I would hang out in a t-mobile store and listen for the numbers. Or follow that person back to the car, run the plates and get a name and home address to match the number.
    BrianP</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hi , What hacks me off is the contempt the store jerks have for the security of your social security number .
" We got a phone here for 334-55-9870 .
Come to the front desk to pickup your phone !
" Everybody in the room can hear your number .
If I were an illegal alien or identity thief , I would hang out in a t-mobile store and listen for the numbers .
Or follow that person back to the car , run the plates and get a name and home address to match the number .
BrianP</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hi,
What hacks me off is the contempt the store jerks have for the security of your social security number.
"We got a phone here for 334-55-9870.
Come to the front desk to pickup your phone!
" Everybody in the room can hear your number.
If I were an illegal alien or identity thief, I would hang out in a t-mobile store and listen for the numbers.
Or follow that person back to the car, run the plates and get a name and home address to match the number.
BrianP</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418861</id>
	<title>NOBODY gets my SSN.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245667440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Michigan has very strict SSN disclosure laws, and while IANALNPOOTV, I have to wonder if this requirement is even lawful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Michigan has very strict SSN disclosure laws , and while IANALNPOOTV , I have to wonder if this requirement is even lawful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Michigan has very strict SSN disclosure laws, and while IANALNPOOTV, I have to wonder if this requirement is even lawful.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421525</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>pasamio</author>
	<datestamp>1245683460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A three year old phone with no where near the same features is about half the price of a new iPhone? How is that even a comparison?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A three year old phone with no where near the same features is about half the price of a new iPhone ?
How is that even a comparison ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A three year old phone with no where near the same features is about half the price of a new iPhone?
How is that even a comparison?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418839</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28428211</id>
	<title>Re:Legal Eagle</title>
	<author>Fulcrum of Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1245662940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>On a form 4473 (that is Application to Purchase a freaking firearm) I am allowed to skip the portion about the social security number and the federal background check will still go through and I am still allowed to walk home with my new shooting iron.</p></div><p>That's because you owning a gun is a guaranteed right and you owning a cell phone is a negotiated sale.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>On a form 4473 ( that is Application to Purchase a freaking firearm ) I am allowed to skip the portion about the social security number and the federal background check will still go through and I am still allowed to walk home with my new shooting iron.That 's because you owning a gun is a guaranteed right and you owning a cell phone is a negotiated sale .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On a form 4473 (that is Application to Purchase a freaking firearm) I am allowed to skip the portion about the social security number and the federal background check will still go through and I am still allowed to walk home with my new shooting iron.That's because you owning a gun is a guaranteed right and you owning a cell phone is a negotiated sale.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28426033</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>matt20102</author>
	<datestamp>1245698880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It was originally the case that the SSN was to be used only for the that program:<blockquote><div><p>History of SSN usage. When Social Security numbers were first issued in 1936, the federal government assured the public that use of the numbers would be limited to Social Security programs such as calculating retirement benefits. Today, however, the Social Security number (SSN) has become the de facto national identifier. (Read a history of the SSN at www.socialsecurity.gov/history/ssn/ssncards.html<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.)</p></div>
</blockquote><p> <a href="http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10-ssn.htm#2" title="privacyrights.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10-ssn.htm#2</a> [privacyrights.org]
<br>
<br>
I'm too young to remember when this was the case, but SS cards originally contained verbiage to the effect that "this card is not to be used for identification".  Check with your parents or grandparents to see if any still have a "vintage" card.  Of course that designation as since been removed and something that the government had originally assured us they wouldn't do is now standard operating procedure.  Sound familiar, anyone?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It was originally the case that the SSN was to be used only for the that program : History of SSN usage .
When Social Security numbers were first issued in 1936 , the federal government assured the public that use of the numbers would be limited to Social Security programs such as calculating retirement benefits .
Today , however , the Social Security number ( SSN ) has become the de facto national identifier .
( Read a history of the SSN at www.socialsecurity.gov/history/ssn/ssncards.html .
) http : //www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10-ssn.htm # 2 [ privacyrights.org ] I 'm too young to remember when this was the case , but SS cards originally contained verbiage to the effect that " this card is not to be used for identification " .
Check with your parents or grandparents to see if any still have a " vintage " card .
Of course that designation as since been removed and something that the government had originally assured us they would n't do is now standard operating procedure .
Sound familiar , anyone ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was originally the case that the SSN was to be used only for the that program:History of SSN usage.
When Social Security numbers were first issued in 1936, the federal government assured the public that use of the numbers would be limited to Social Security programs such as calculating retirement benefits.
Today, however, the Social Security number (SSN) has become the de facto national identifier.
(Read a history of the SSN at www.socialsecurity.gov/history/ssn/ssncards.html .
)
 http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10-ssn.htm#2 [privacyrights.org]


I'm too young to remember when this was the case, but SS cards originally contained verbiage to the effect that "this card is not to be used for identification".
Check with your parents or grandparents to see if any still have a "vintage" card.
Of course that designation as since been removed and something that the government had originally assured us they wouldn't do is now standard operating procedure.
Sound familiar, anyone?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28424703</id>
	<title>Cable companies</title>
	<author>Jared555</author>
	<datestamp>1245694200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mediacom required either passing a credit check or giving them a credit/debit card number before they would give me a HD cable box.  When they are giving you a piece of equipment they say costs $600-$1000 if I don't return, it is a LITTLE more understandable.  For people who don't have a debit/credit card the credit check is a requirement.  The only annoyance for me is the fact that if I actually apply for credit there may end up being a ton of credit checks on history because of all the companies that want to check it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mediacom required either passing a credit check or giving them a credit/debit card number before they would give me a HD cable box .
When they are giving you a piece of equipment they say costs $ 600- $ 1000 if I do n't return , it is a LITTLE more understandable .
For people who do n't have a debit/credit card the credit check is a requirement .
The only annoyance for me is the fact that if I actually apply for credit there may end up being a ton of credit checks on history because of all the companies that want to check it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mediacom required either passing a credit check or giving them a credit/debit card number before they would give me a HD cable box.
When they are giving you a piece of equipment they say costs $600-$1000 if I don't return, it is a LITTLE more understandable.
For people who don't have a debit/credit card the credit check is a requirement.
The only annoyance for me is the fact that if I actually apply for credit there may end up being a ton of credit checks on history because of all the companies that want to check it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421445</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>Abcd1234</author>
	<datestamp>1245683220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>In Canada a lot of places will ask for a SSN but it's not required. It's even technically illegal to ask in many situations, I believe.</i></p><p>For more information on this topic, see <a href="http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/about/reports/sin/cop/section4.shtml" title="servicecanada.gc.ca">here</a> [servicecanada.gc.ca].  To quote:</p><blockquote><div><p> A private-sector organization cannot make clients provide their SIN as a condition for receiving a product or service, unless there is a legal requirement for the SIN.</p></div></blockquote><p>As an example, banks are required, by law, to request a SIN from individuals holding interest-paying accounts.  In addition, employers are required to request a SIN for various reasons (tax purposes, verifying employment status, etc).  Furthermore, any business that does collect SINs must comply with specific laws about privacy protections.</p><p>In short: Canada may do a lot of things wrong, but if there's one thing we've done pretty well to date, it's protecting privacy.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In Canada a lot of places will ask for a SSN but it 's not required .
It 's even technically illegal to ask in many situations , I believe.For more information on this topic , see here [ servicecanada.gc.ca ] .
To quote : A private-sector organization can not make clients provide their SIN as a condition for receiving a product or service , unless there is a legal requirement for the SIN.As an example , banks are required , by law , to request a SIN from individuals holding interest-paying accounts .
In addition , employers are required to request a SIN for various reasons ( tax purposes , verifying employment status , etc ) .
Furthermore , any business that does collect SINs must comply with specific laws about privacy protections.In short : Canada may do a lot of things wrong , but if there 's one thing we 've done pretty well to date , it 's protecting privacy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Canada a lot of places will ask for a SSN but it's not required.
It's even technically illegal to ask in many situations, I believe.For more information on this topic, see here [servicecanada.gc.ca].
To quote: A private-sector organization cannot make clients provide their SIN as a condition for receiving a product or service, unless there is a legal requirement for the SIN.As an example, banks are required, by law, to request a SIN from individuals holding interest-paying accounts.
In addition, employers are required to request a SIN for various reasons (tax purposes, verifying employment status, etc).
Furthermore, any business that does collect SINs must comply with specific laws about privacy protections.In short: Canada may do a lot of things wrong, but if there's one thing we've done pretty well to date, it's protecting privacy.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28423339</id>
	<title>Re:What planet have you been on?</title>
	<author>MikeURL</author>
	<datestamp>1245689520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Using SSN is a bad solution to a thorny problem.  The problem is also not amenable to being solved because the wingnuts on both sides go apeshit at the very mention of a National ID card.  So we go forward using SSN even though it is absolutely in no way suited to the task of securely identifying people without humongous downside risk.
<br> <br>
I suspect that if a National ID were implemented that very soon after it would be made illegal to even ask for an SSN.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Using SSN is a bad solution to a thorny problem .
The problem is also not amenable to being solved because the wingnuts on both sides go apeshit at the very mention of a National ID card .
So we go forward using SSN even though it is absolutely in no way suited to the task of securely identifying people without humongous downside risk .
I suspect that if a National ID were implemented that very soon after it would be made illegal to even ask for an SSN .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Using SSN is a bad solution to a thorny problem.
The problem is also not amenable to being solved because the wingnuts on both sides go apeshit at the very mention of a National ID card.
So we go forward using SSN even though it is absolutely in no way suited to the task of securely identifying people without humongous downside risk.
I suspect that if a National ID were implemented that very soon after it would be made illegal to even ask for an SSN.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419683</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421521</id>
	<title>HMMM...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245683460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought that your SSN is for U.S. Government use ONLY, and that no one else could REQIURE you to give it out.  Employers are required to ask for your SSN to prove citizenship.  Guess its a good thing I don't want a cell phone, or a palm pre!  If I traveled much, I would get a cell phone, but it would only be used on trips, and would be a prepaid one.  Basically for emergency ise only.</p><p>As for everyday things, if I am at work, or out shopping etc...people can wait until I get home to call me.  In an emergency, they could call me at work.  Since most of my shopping trips are less than 2 hours, its unlikely that someone would NEED to get ahold of me before I return home.</p><p>For most people, cell phones are a luxury, not the necessity that people seem to think that they are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought that your SSN is for U.S. Government use ONLY , and that no one else could REQIURE you to give it out .
Employers are required to ask for your SSN to prove citizenship .
Guess its a good thing I do n't want a cell phone , or a palm pre !
If I traveled much , I would get a cell phone , but it would only be used on trips , and would be a prepaid one .
Basically for emergency ise only.As for everyday things , if I am at work , or out shopping etc...people can wait until I get home to call me .
In an emergency , they could call me at work .
Since most of my shopping trips are less than 2 hours , its unlikely that someone would NEED to get ahold of me before I return home.For most people , cell phones are a luxury , not the necessity that people seem to think that they are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought that your SSN is for U.S. Government use ONLY, and that no one else could REQIURE you to give it out.
Employers are required to ask for your SSN to prove citizenship.
Guess its a good thing I don't want a cell phone, or a palm pre!
If I traveled much, I would get a cell phone, but it would only be used on trips, and would be a prepaid one.
Basically for emergency ise only.As for everyday things, if I am at work, or out shopping etc...people can wait until I get home to call me.
In an emergency, they could call me at work.
Since most of my shopping trips are less than 2 hours, its unlikely that someone would NEED to get ahold of me before I return home.For most people, cell phones are a luxury, not the necessity that people seem to think that they are.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28426287</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>Phroggy</author>
	<datestamp>1245699780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe Apple would LOVE this.  The needed the exclusive contract in order to get various concessions from the carrier (visual voicemail support, setting a reasonable price point, not offering the phone with anything less than an unlimited data plan).  Consumer demand has proven high enough that there's a clear incentive for carriers like T-Mobile to invest in supporting visual voicemail if Apple will allow them to sell it.  Consumers have seen how Apple intends for the iPhone to work with a cooperative carrier, and I think any carrier that behaved differently (e.g. if Verizon tried to cripple the phone and add extra fees) would face significant pressure from consumers to behave themselves.</p><p>I'm sure adding support for Verizon and Sprint is non-trivial, but it could mean selling a lot more iPhones in the US, especially if Apple can figure out how to make a single phone that is transferrable between carriers.  Putting this power into the hands of consumers would force the carriers to better compete against each other, which could only benefit Apple.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe Apple would LOVE this .
The needed the exclusive contract in order to get various concessions from the carrier ( visual voicemail support , setting a reasonable price point , not offering the phone with anything less than an unlimited data plan ) .
Consumer demand has proven high enough that there 's a clear incentive for carriers like T-Mobile to invest in supporting visual voicemail if Apple will allow them to sell it .
Consumers have seen how Apple intends for the iPhone to work with a cooperative carrier , and I think any carrier that behaved differently ( e.g .
if Verizon tried to cripple the phone and add extra fees ) would face significant pressure from consumers to behave themselves.I 'm sure adding support for Verizon and Sprint is non-trivial , but it could mean selling a lot more iPhones in the US , especially if Apple can figure out how to make a single phone that is transferrable between carriers .
Putting this power into the hands of consumers would force the carriers to better compete against each other , which could only benefit Apple .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe Apple would LOVE this.
The needed the exclusive contract in order to get various concessions from the carrier (visual voicemail support, setting a reasonable price point, not offering the phone with anything less than an unlimited data plan).
Consumer demand has proven high enough that there's a clear incentive for carriers like T-Mobile to invest in supporting visual voicemail if Apple will allow them to sell it.
Consumers have seen how Apple intends for the iPhone to work with a cooperative carrier, and I think any carrier that behaved differently (e.g.
if Verizon tried to cripple the phone and add extra fees) would face significant pressure from consumers to behave themselves.I'm sure adding support for Verizon and Sprint is non-trivial, but it could mean selling a lot more iPhones in the US, especially if Apple can figure out how to make a single phone that is transferrable between carriers.
Putting this power into the hands of consumers would force the carriers to better compete against each other, which could only benefit Apple.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418641</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28422029</id>
	<title>And what if you don't have an SSN?</title>
	<author>sugarmotor</author>
	<datestamp>1245685140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So if you simply don't have a SSN, then you can't open an account with Sprint !?</p><p>-&gt; Racism.</p><p>Stephan</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So if you simply do n't have a SSN , then you ca n't open an account with Sprint !
? - &gt; Racism.Stephan</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if you simply don't have a SSN, then you can't open an account with Sprint !
?-&gt; Racism.Stephan</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28432851</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245680640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Put the tin-foil hats away, folks. Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies, there's "nothing to see here."</p></div><p>Bullshit.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Put the tin-foil hats away , folks .
Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies , there 's " nothing to see here .
" Bullshit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put the tin-foil hats away, folks.
Until you come up with a better system for identifying consumers to credit agencies, there's "nothing to see here.
"Bullshit.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419023</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420937</id>
	<title>Absoutely Not</title>
	<author>Slashdot Parent</author>
	<datestamp>1245681480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I Am A Landlord.  And I would never allow this.  It's just too easy to play games with something someone printed off at home.</p><p>I have had applicants show up with credit report in hand before, and I have told them that I'd be happy to go over their report with them and see if they'll qualify before they hand over their SSN, but that I'll still have to run their credit using my service to verify the accuracy.</p><p>Some still apply, some don't.  No skin off my back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I Am A Landlord .
And I would never allow this .
It 's just too easy to play games with something someone printed off at home.I have had applicants show up with credit report in hand before , and I have told them that I 'd be happy to go over their report with them and see if they 'll qualify before they hand over their SSN , but that I 'll still have to run their credit using my service to verify the accuracy.Some still apply , some do n't .
No skin off my back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I Am A Landlord.
And I would never allow this.
It's just too easy to play games with something someone printed off at home.I have had applicants show up with credit report in hand before, and I have told them that I'd be happy to go over their report with them and see if they'll qualify before they hand over their SSN, but that I'll still have to run their credit using my service to verify the accuracy.Some still apply, some don't.
No skin off my back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418733</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418839</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>jcupitt65</author>
	<datestamp>1245667320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can buy an unlocked phone from most of the manufactures now. Just get a SIM card for the network you want to use and pop it in.

</p><p>For example, the <a href="http://www.nokiausa.com/find-products/phones/nokia-n85" title="nokiausa.com">N85</a> [nokiausa.com] is $399 unlocked on the Nokia store.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can buy an unlocked phone from most of the manufactures now .
Just get a SIM card for the network you want to use and pop it in .
For example , the N85 [ nokiausa.com ] is $ 399 unlocked on the Nokia store .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can buy an unlocked phone from most of the manufactures now.
Just get a SIM card for the network you want to use and pop it in.
For example, the N85 [nokiausa.com] is $399 unlocked on the Nokia store.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418641</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418895</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>WillyDavidK</author>
	<datestamp>1245667740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Apparently someone slept through the lesson on subsidies in their Economics class...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently someone slept through the lesson on subsidies in their Economics class.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently someone slept through the lesson on subsidies in their Economics class...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418641</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419029</id>
	<title>Re:At least you can then use it</title>
	<author>Kindaian</author>
	<datestamp>1245668940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Old phones are good...</p><p>Good for your pocket and the environment.</p><p>Remember... that before the 3 R... there are 3 more R... that people [r]arelly use:</p><p>[R]efurbish, [R]epair and [R]euse...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Old phones are good...Good for your pocket and the environment.Remember... that before the 3 R... there are 3 more R... that people [ r ] arelly use : [ R ] efurbish , [ R ] epair and [ R ] euse... ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Old phones are good...Good for your pocket and the environment.Remember... that before the 3 R... there are 3 more R... that people [r]arelly use:[R]efurbish, [R]epair and [R]euse... ;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418735</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421273</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>mkiefte</author>
	<datestamp>1245682620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have lived in Canada almost my entire life and first off a) there is no SSN.  There is something called a Social Insurance Number which serves a similar purpose; and b) I have never been asked for my SIN for a cell phone contract.  Revenue Canada has a website that tells you when you should and should not provide your SIN:<br>

<a href="http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/sin/protect/provide.shtml" title="servicecanada.gc.ca" rel="nofollow">Who can ask for my SIN and when don't I have to provide my SIN?</a> [servicecanada.gc.ca] <br>

Critically:<br>

<em>Here are examples of when you don't have to give your Social Insurance Number or show your card:<br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br>
11. subscribing to long-distance or cellular telephone services<br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</em></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have lived in Canada almost my entire life and first off a ) there is no SSN .
There is something called a Social Insurance Number which serves a similar purpose ; and b ) I have never been asked for my SIN for a cell phone contract .
Revenue Canada has a website that tells you when you should and should not provide your SIN : Who can ask for my SIN and when do n't I have to provide my SIN ?
[ servicecanada.gc.ca ] Critically : Here are examples of when you do n't have to give your Social Insurance Number or show your card : .. . 11. subscribing to long-distance or cellular telephone services .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have lived in Canada almost my entire life and first off a) there is no SSN.
There is something called a Social Insurance Number which serves a similar purpose; and b) I have never been asked for my SIN for a cell phone contract.
Revenue Canada has a website that tells you when you should and should not provide your SIN:

Who can ask for my SIN and when don't I have to provide my SIN?
[servicecanada.gc.ca] 

Critically:

Here are examples of when you don't have to give your Social Insurance Number or show your card: ...
11. subscribing to long-distance or cellular telephone services ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28422139</id>
	<title>Deposits vs. Credit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This may seem a little too simple to some of you, but it's almost certainly possible.</p><p>Many services want your social security number before you sign-up, ostensibly to run a credit check on  you.  Most of these same services can be obtained by paying a deposit of 1-2 months service fees.  This way they're protected and can always shut off your service without having lost anything if you stop paying your bill.</p><p>The thing is that that SSN credit method has taken precedence so heavily that most people ASSUME you can't do anything without the SSN number.  Give it a try.  If you're willing to go a person or two up the ladder I think you'd be surprised with the results you get.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This may seem a little too simple to some of you , but it 's almost certainly possible.Many services want your social security number before you sign-up , ostensibly to run a credit check on you .
Most of these same services can be obtained by paying a deposit of 1-2 months service fees .
This way they 're protected and can always shut off your service without having lost anything if you stop paying your bill.The thing is that that SSN credit method has taken precedence so heavily that most people ASSUME you ca n't do anything without the SSN number .
Give it a try .
If you 're willing to go a person or two up the ladder I think you 'd be surprised with the results you get .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This may seem a little too simple to some of you, but it's almost certainly possible.Many services want your social security number before you sign-up, ostensibly to run a credit check on  you.
Most of these same services can be obtained by paying a deposit of 1-2 months service fees.
This way they're protected and can always shut off your service without having lost anything if you stop paying your bill.The thing is that that SSN credit method has taken precedence so heavily that most people ASSUME you can't do anything without the SSN number.
Give it a try.
If you're willing to go a person or two up the ladder I think you'd be surprised with the results you get.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419085</id>
	<title>Patriot Act</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245669300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is probably the result of the "Know thy User" clause in the Patriot Act.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is probably the result of the " Know thy User " clause in the Patriot Act .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is probably the result of the "Know thy User" clause in the Patriot Act.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418735</id>
	<title>At least you can then use it</title>
	<author>St.Creed</author>
	<datestamp>1245666360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here in The Netherlands we already have had a few of those schemes, for example for the iPhone. Apple decided to go with T-Mobile, which may work fine in a few other countries (Germany, Austria), but over here I can only get reception when I'm on the 2nd floor of my house, or in the center of the city. While having to give out your SSN is not good, at least you have a working phone afterwards. Here we have to do the same (they photocopy your passport etc. as well) and then discover you can't use it...

It was one of the reasons I did not buy an iPhone. Fortunately Belgium has outlawed exclusive contracts so I can go there and pick one up. Still, the attitude of "screw the customer, we get more money this way" does nothing for Apple's image and sealed my decision to keep my old phone for now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in The Netherlands we already have had a few of those schemes , for example for the iPhone .
Apple decided to go with T-Mobile , which may work fine in a few other countries ( Germany , Austria ) , but over here I can only get reception when I 'm on the 2nd floor of my house , or in the center of the city .
While having to give out your SSN is not good , at least you have a working phone afterwards .
Here we have to do the same ( they photocopy your passport etc .
as well ) and then discover you ca n't use it.. . It was one of the reasons I did not buy an iPhone .
Fortunately Belgium has outlawed exclusive contracts so I can go there and pick one up .
Still , the attitude of " screw the customer , we get more money this way " does nothing for Apple 's image and sealed my decision to keep my old phone for now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in The Netherlands we already have had a few of those schemes, for example for the iPhone.
Apple decided to go with T-Mobile, which may work fine in a few other countries (Germany, Austria), but over here I can only get reception when I'm on the 2nd floor of my house, or in the center of the city.
While having to give out your SSN is not good, at least you have a working phone afterwards.
Here we have to do the same (they photocopy your passport etc.
as well) and then discover you can't use it...

It was one of the reasons I did not buy an iPhone.
Fortunately Belgium has outlawed exclusive contracts so I can go there and pick one up.
Still, the attitude of "screw the customer, we get more money this way" does nothing for Apple's image and sealed my decision to keep my old phone for now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419805</id>
	<title>The Pre is exclusive by design...</title>
	<author>damn\_registrars</author>
	<datestamp>1245675240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't see how the SSN requirement has anything to do with carrier exclusivity agreements for phones.  The Palm Pre is a TDMA phone that will only work on Sprint anyways.  We aren't talking about a GSM phone that can be moved to other carriers.  If palm wanted the Pre to work on other networks they would have to introduce additional models for the other protocols that are used in this country and/or the rest of the world.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see how the SSN requirement has anything to do with carrier exclusivity agreements for phones .
The Palm Pre is a TDMA phone that will only work on Sprint anyways .
We are n't talking about a GSM phone that can be moved to other carriers .
If palm wanted the Pre to work on other networks they would have to introduce additional models for the other protocols that are used in this country and/or the rest of the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see how the SSN requirement has anything to do with carrier exclusivity agreements for phones.
The Palm Pre is a TDMA phone that will only work on Sprint anyways.
We aren't talking about a GSM phone that can be moved to other carriers.
If palm wanted the Pre to work on other networks they would have to introduce additional models for the other protocols that are used in this country and/or the rest of the world.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419039</id>
	<title>SSN required?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245669000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why the hell do you need nuclear submarine just to buy a phone?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why the hell do you need nuclear submarine just to buy a phone ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why the hell do you need nuclear submarine just to buy a phone?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28436009</id>
	<title>STICK TO PREPAID SHORT-TERM PHONES</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245748020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>JUNK THE EXPENSIVE PLANS, AND DON'T BUY EXPENSIVE TOYS WHICH WILL BE JUNK IN 5 MONTHS. I GOT AN UNLOCKED OLD POCKET PC PHONE FOR $5 (ABOUT 3 EURO), AND ADDED A 4GB MEMORY TO IT FOR ANOTHER $20. IT HAS BEEN RUNNING WELL FOR 5 YEARS.

That, and I can store &amp; read thousands of eBooks for FREE on it. It has my usual PDA Calendar, Contacts, gets eMail like a champ, and records sounds/conversations when needed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>JUNK THE EXPENSIVE PLANS , AND DO N'T BUY EXPENSIVE TOYS WHICH WILL BE JUNK IN 5 MONTHS .
I GOT AN UNLOCKED OLD POCKET PC PHONE FOR $ 5 ( ABOUT 3 EURO ) , AND ADDED A 4GB MEMORY TO IT FOR ANOTHER $ 20 .
IT HAS BEEN RUNNING WELL FOR 5 YEARS .
That , and I can store &amp; read thousands of eBooks for FREE on it .
It has my usual PDA Calendar , Contacts , gets eMail like a champ , and records sounds/conversations when needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>JUNK THE EXPENSIVE PLANS, AND DON'T BUY EXPENSIVE TOYS WHICH WILL BE JUNK IN 5 MONTHS.
I GOT AN UNLOCKED OLD POCKET PC PHONE FOR $5 (ABOUT 3 EURO), AND ADDED A 4GB MEMORY TO IT FOR ANOTHER $20.
IT HAS BEEN RUNNING WELL FOR 5 YEARS.
That, and I can store &amp; read thousands of eBooks for FREE on it.
It has my usual PDA Calendar, Contacts, gets eMail like a champ, and records sounds/conversations when needed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421325</id>
	<title>Re:Here's something worse</title>
	<author>Sufinsil</author>
	<datestamp>1245682800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That is silly.  You only require a home phone number to for emergency contact or for verification purposes.  All the time customers come in with only cellphones and thats what i put in.  They can have wireless data in minutes if they pass credit fine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That is silly .
You only require a home phone number to for emergency contact or for verification purposes .
All the time customers come in with only cellphones and thats what i put in .
They can have wireless data in minutes if they pass credit fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is silly.
You only require a home phone number to for emergency contact or for verification purposes.
All the time customers come in with only cellphones and thats what i put in.
They can have wireless data in minutes if they pass credit fine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419229</id>
	<title>This is why exclusivity deals are a bad idea</title>
	<author>Davidge</author>
	<datestamp>1245670560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Considering that most modern democratic nations in the western world tend to subscribe to the free-market capitalistic world-view, I really don't understand how mobile carriers get away with these exclusivity deals. Not only are they tantamount to a monopoly in a particular market, but they constitute collusion between the manufacturer and the carrier.<br>Where are the consumer watchdogs ?  Where are the anti-competition commissions ? Why isn't something being done about this anti-competitive behaviour ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering that most modern democratic nations in the western world tend to subscribe to the free-market capitalistic world-view , I really do n't understand how mobile carriers get away with these exclusivity deals .
Not only are they tantamount to a monopoly in a particular market , but they constitute collusion between the manufacturer and the carrier.Where are the consumer watchdogs ?
Where are the anti-competition commissions ?
Why is n't something being done about this anti-competitive behaviour ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering that most modern democratic nations in the western world tend to subscribe to the free-market capitalistic world-view, I really don't understand how mobile carriers get away with these exclusivity deals.
Not only are they tantamount to a monopoly in a particular market, but they constitute collusion between the manufacturer and the carrier.Where are the consumer watchdogs ?
Where are the anti-competition commissions ?
Why isn't something being done about this anti-competitive behaviour ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420503</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>hedwards</author>
	<datestamp>1245679680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But, they could get around that by behaving in a responsible fashion. They never used to ask for that information, at least not any of the times that I've applied for new cellphone service. And if they didn't provide unsolicited unlimited accounts, most people wouldn't notice the difference. Arguably it would be better for everybody if they didn't allow you to rack up thousands of dollars of debt without asking for permission. Basically this is just a way of getting more power to extort people out of money when the contract isn't clear.<br> <br>

There's just been too many stories of phone companies extending tens of thousands of dollars in credit without informing the customer that they're doing so.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But , they could get around that by behaving in a responsible fashion .
They never used to ask for that information , at least not any of the times that I 've applied for new cellphone service .
And if they did n't provide unsolicited unlimited accounts , most people would n't notice the difference .
Arguably it would be better for everybody if they did n't allow you to rack up thousands of dollars of debt without asking for permission .
Basically this is just a way of getting more power to extort people out of money when the contract is n't clear .
There 's just been too many stories of phone companies extending tens of thousands of dollars in credit without informing the customer that they 're doing so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But, they could get around that by behaving in a responsible fashion.
They never used to ask for that information, at least not any of the times that I've applied for new cellphone service.
And if they didn't provide unsolicited unlimited accounts, most people wouldn't notice the difference.
Arguably it would be better for everybody if they didn't allow you to rack up thousands of dollars of debt without asking for permission.
Basically this is just a way of getting more power to extort people out of money when the contract isn't clear.
There's just been too many stories of phone companies extending tens of thousands of dollars in credit without informing the customer that they're doing so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419023</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420819</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1245681000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Just get a SIM card for the network you want to use and pop it in.</p></div><p>The CDMA2000 counterpart to a SIM swap is a programming procedure that a carrier's technician must perform. I've read about carriers that have a general policy against performing such programming on unbranded phones.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just get a SIM card for the network you want to use and pop it in.The CDMA2000 counterpart to a SIM swap is a programming procedure that a carrier 's technician must perform .
I 've read about carriers that have a general policy against performing such programming on unbranded phones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just get a SIM card for the network you want to use and pop it in.The CDMA2000 counterpart to a SIM swap is a programming procedure that a carrier's technician must perform.
I've read about carriers that have a general policy against performing such programming on unbranded phones.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418839</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28424755</id>
	<title>Re:SSN = National ID Number</title>
	<author>5KVGhost</author>
	<datestamp>1245694320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even worse, it's been turned into a <i>really bad</i> national ID number.</p><p>We can argue the merits and dangers of a national ID number until we both die of old age. But if we're going to have one, we should at least devise a system that can perform certain stated goals without being fragile and easily abused. The current poor implementation gives the appearance of security and consistency without real substance. And the specific flaws of SSNs derail attempts at honest debate, since they make it equally difficult for detractors to argue persuasively against a proper ID system as for supporters to argue in favor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even worse , it 's been turned into a really bad national ID number.We can argue the merits and dangers of a national ID number until we both die of old age .
But if we 're going to have one , we should at least devise a system that can perform certain stated goals without being fragile and easily abused .
The current poor implementation gives the appearance of security and consistency without real substance .
And the specific flaws of SSNs derail attempts at honest debate , since they make it equally difficult for detractors to argue persuasively against a proper ID system as for supporters to argue in favor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even worse, it's been turned into a really bad national ID number.We can argue the merits and dangers of a national ID number until we both die of old age.
But if we're going to have one, we should at least devise a system that can perform certain stated goals without being fragile and easily abused.
The current poor implementation gives the appearance of security and consistency without real substance.
And the specific flaws of SSNs derail attempts at honest debate, since they make it equally difficult for detractors to argue persuasively against a proper ID system as for supporters to argue in favor.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419181</id>
	<title>Incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245670080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As many have described here, the SSN wasn't require to buy the phone. And as Perry Mason would say, this story is "incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As many have described here , the SSN was n't require to buy the phone .
And as Perry Mason would say , this story is " incompetent , irrelevant and immaterial .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As many have described here, the SSN wasn't require to buy the phone.
And as Perry Mason would say, this story is "incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420665</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>avdp</author>
	<datestamp>1245680340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure,  just as soon as the federal government issues everyone an ID card (like most countries in the world) so we can use that number instead.</p><p>The "social security number" became the magic number by accident (due to lack of alternative) not by choice.</p><p>The bottom line is that financial transactions need ID and ways to do credit checks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , just as soon as the federal government issues everyone an ID card ( like most countries in the world ) so we can use that number instead.The " social security number " became the magic number by accident ( due to lack of alternative ) not by choice.The bottom line is that financial transactions need ID and ways to do credit checks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure,  just as soon as the federal government issues everyone an ID card (like most countries in the world) so we can use that number instead.The "social security number" became the magic number by accident (due to lack of alternative) not by choice.The bottom line is that financial transactions need ID and ways to do credit checks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419825</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>OzPeter</author>
	<datestamp>1245675360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>when I was living in the US and working on an L-1 visa I used to enjoy the same thing!  And I didn't have an SSN or ITN. <p> Its a real hoot watching the wheels turn around in peoples heads as they slowly start to realise that there are people living and working in the US who are not citizens and not emigrants.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>when I was living in the US and working on an L-1 visa I used to enjoy the same thing !
And I did n't have an SSN or ITN .
Its a real hoot watching the wheels turn around in peoples heads as they slowly start to realise that there are people living and working in the US who are not citizens and not emigrants .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>when I was living in the US and working on an L-1 visa I used to enjoy the same thing!
And I didn't have an SSN or ITN.
Its a real hoot watching the wheels turn around in peoples heads as they slowly start to realise that there are people living and working in the US who are not citizens and not emigrants.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418813</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418779</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245666720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Is there a cellphone provider that doesn't require you to provide your SSN before signing up for a contract?</p></div><p>I suppose I can understand the requirement for SSN and/or Drivers License number for a credit check.. barely.  Because, after all, you are signing a contract to keep paying for it, like leasing a car.</p><p>But what bothers me is that they KEEP IT ON RECORD.  Sprint asks you to confirm the last four digits of your SSN when you call customer service.  This allows them to profile you, potentially sell it (legal or not), and more likely have it STOLEN and then sold/used for nefarious purposes.</p><p>Why do they retain this information?  Because it is valuable to collect information whether they know what to do with it or not.  I think the risks for abuse are scary and NOT worth it.  But, they don't care.  Not until something bad happens and they get hoards of angry customers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is there a cellphone provider that does n't require you to provide your SSN before signing up for a contract ? I suppose I can understand the requirement for SSN and/or Drivers License number for a credit check.. barely. Because , after all , you are signing a contract to keep paying for it , like leasing a car.But what bothers me is that they KEEP IT ON RECORD .
Sprint asks you to confirm the last four digits of your SSN when you call customer service .
This allows them to profile you , potentially sell it ( legal or not ) , and more likely have it STOLEN and then sold/used for nefarious purposes.Why do they retain this information ?
Because it is valuable to collect information whether they know what to do with it or not .
I think the risks for abuse are scary and NOT worth it .
But , they do n't care .
Not until something bad happens and they get hoards of angry customers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is there a cellphone provider that doesn't require you to provide your SSN before signing up for a contract?I suppose I can understand the requirement for SSN and/or Drivers License number for a credit check.. barely.  Because, after all, you are signing a contract to keep paying for it, like leasing a car.But what bothers me is that they KEEP IT ON RECORD.
Sprint asks you to confirm the last four digits of your SSN when you call customer service.
This allows them to profile you, potentially sell it (legal or not), and more likely have it STOLEN and then sold/used for nefarious purposes.Why do they retain this information?
Because it is valuable to collect information whether they know what to do with it or not.
I think the risks for abuse are scary and NOT worth it.
But, they don't care.
Not until something bad happens and they get hoards of angry customers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418601</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418807</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>Rakishi</author>
	<datestamp>1245666900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Low Cost? An unlocked iphone costs I believe around $800 in places where it's available legally. In the US you pay $200 because the rest comes from the 2-year contract you're forced to buy alongside the phone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Low Cost ?
An unlocked iphone costs I believe around $ 800 in places where it 's available legally .
In the US you pay $ 200 because the rest comes from the 2-year contract you 're forced to buy alongside the phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Low Cost?
An unlocked iphone costs I believe around $800 in places where it's available legally.
In the US you pay $200 because the rest comes from the 2-year contract you're forced to buy alongside the phone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418641</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421837</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>klossner</author>
	<datestamp>1245684540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Sprint asks you to confirm the last four digits of your SSN when you call customer service.</p></div><p>I've called them several times in the last two years, including one call this month, and they're never asked for this.  Instead, they ask for the PIN number that I defined when I opened my account.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sprint asks you to confirm the last four digits of your SSN when you call customer service.I 've called them several times in the last two years , including one call this month , and they 're never asked for this .
Instead , they ask for the PIN number that I defined when I opened my account .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sprint asks you to confirm the last four digits of your SSN when you call customer service.I've called them several times in the last two years, including one call this month, and they're never asked for this.
Instead, they ask for the PIN number that I defined when I opened my account.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418779</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28471273</id>
	<title>The Reason...</title>
	<author>TheKeyboardSlayer</author>
	<datestamp>1245921060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The reason is very simple...you're spending close to 500 bucks when you get a plan, pre pay for a month, buy a touchstone, a case, add in the insurance, etc.

So, it makes complete sense.

I gladly provided mine to pick up my Pre.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason is very simple...you 're spending close to 500 bucks when you get a plan , pre pay for a month , buy a touchstone , a case , add in the insurance , etc .
So , it makes complete sense .
I gladly provided mine to pick up my Pre .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason is very simple...you're spending close to 500 bucks when you get a plan, pre pay for a month, buy a touchstone, a case, add in the insurance, etc.
So, it makes complete sense.
I gladly provided mine to pick up my Pre.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421005</id>
	<title>Re:"offered no acceptable options" vs "refused to"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245681720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nice cherry picking there.  The poster said these were his offers to Sprint (along with some others), which they did not find acceptable:</p><p> <i><br><b>I</b> offered several other options, including a check on my credit card limit, which is an order of magnitude greater than the combined price of the phone and two-year contract; placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500); or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot.<br></i> </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nice cherry picking there .
The poster said these were his offers to Sprint ( along with some others ) , which they did not find acceptable : I offered several other options , including a check on my credit card limit , which is an order of magnitude greater than the combined price of the phone and two-year contract ; placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ( $ 500 ) ; or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nice cherry picking there.
The poster said these were his offers to Sprint (along with some others), which they did not find acceptable: I offered several other options, including a check on my credit card limit, which is an order of magnitude greater than the combined price of the phone and two-year contract; placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500); or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot. </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418601</id>
	<title>And?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245665280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is there a cellphone provider that <em>doesn't</em> require you to provide your SSN before signing up for a contract?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is there a cellphone provider that does n't require you to provide your SSN before signing up for a contract ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is there a cellphone provider that doesn't require you to provide your SSN before signing up for a contract?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420213</id>
	<title>Re:They continue to fail</title>
	<author>intheshelter</author>
	<datestamp>1245678120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I disagree.  It is essentially a cutting edge handheld computer with up to 24 hours of continuous operation (depending on whether you are talking or listening to music) and you want to get it for $300 or so?  Look at laptop prices.  Now shrink that to 1/10 the size and add a touchscreen and much longer battery life.  The iPhone or G1 are not cheap, but then again they aren't cheap flip phones either.  You have to expect to pay a little money for devices that are so flexible and portable.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree .
It is essentially a cutting edge handheld computer with up to 24 hours of continuous operation ( depending on whether you are talking or listening to music ) and you want to get it for $ 300 or so ?
Look at laptop prices .
Now shrink that to 1/10 the size and add a touchscreen and much longer battery life .
The iPhone or G1 are not cheap , but then again they are n't cheap flip phones either .
You have to expect to pay a little money for devices that are so flexible and portable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree.
It is essentially a cutting edge handheld computer with up to 24 hours of continuous operation (depending on whether you are talking or listening to music) and you want to get it for $300 or so?
Look at laptop prices.
Now shrink that to 1/10 the size and add a touchscreen and much longer battery life.
The iPhone or G1 are not cheap, but then again they aren't cheap flip phones either.
You have to expect to pay a little money for devices that are so flexible and portable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418865</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419067</id>
	<title>Simple Solution: buy from overseas</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245669180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When the palm pre is available in other countries (europe, etc), just order one over the internet from there - no SSN necessary.</p><p>I'm sure if you pay a bit more that you will be able to get one that is not locked to any carrier.</p><p>How much is your privacy worth?</p><p>I've been told "$500 deposit required if you do not have an SSN" by T-Mobile (and you want a contract service.) So add $500 to any phone. For satellite TV, similar deal: $300 premium to get service from DirectTV without supplying an SSN (which has been refunded over time.)</p><p>If you think about it, the problem for the ocmpany is risk management and they often accept cash "bribes" to convince them that you're not risky.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When the palm pre is available in other countries ( europe , etc ) , just order one over the internet from there - no SSN necessary.I 'm sure if you pay a bit more that you will be able to get one that is not locked to any carrier.How much is your privacy worth ? I 've been told " $ 500 deposit required if you do not have an SSN " by T-Mobile ( and you want a contract service .
) So add $ 500 to any phone .
For satellite TV , similar deal : $ 300 premium to get service from DirectTV without supplying an SSN ( which has been refunded over time .
) If you think about it , the problem for the ocmpany is risk management and they often accept cash " bribes " to convince them that you 're not risky .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When the palm pre is available in other countries (europe, etc), just order one over the internet from there - no SSN necessary.I'm sure if you pay a bit more that you will be able to get one that is not locked to any carrier.How much is your privacy worth?I've been told "$500 deposit required if you do not have an SSN" by T-Mobile (and you want a contract service.
) So add $500 to any phone.
For satellite TV, similar deal: $300 premium to get service from DirectTV without supplying an SSN (which has been refunded over time.
)If you think about it, the problem for the ocmpany is risk management and they often accept cash "bribes" to convince them that you're not risky.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418695</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245666000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The point is that he made a more than reasonable effort to purchase their product without releasing personal details.  They chose not to make the sale of a new phone; and the chose not to receive full, on the spot payment of a two year contract for want of his SSN.  They didn't need it at that point, and lost a pretty good chunk of change.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The point is that he made a more than reasonable effort to purchase their product without releasing personal details .
They chose not to make the sale of a new phone ; and the chose not to receive full , on the spot payment of a two year contract for want of his SSN .
They did n't need it at that point , and lost a pretty good chunk of change .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The point is that he made a more than reasonable effort to purchase their product without releasing personal details.
They chose not to make the sale of a new phone; and the chose not to receive full, on the spot payment of a two year contract for want of his SSN.
They didn't need it at that point, and lost a pretty good chunk of change.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418601</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420785</id>
	<title>Re:SSN = National ID Number</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1245680880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think I'm going to start a business and in addition to SSN's, I'm going to start requiring people to sign over Power of Attorney before I let them sign the contract for whatever it is I'm going to sell.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>It doesn't matter that there was EXTREME concern that this might happen way back when the SSN was invented, it happened anyway.</p></div><p>Well, to be fair, that was probably the real point of the exercise.  The opposition even realized it and complained, but they apparently were soothed by the lies or weren't squeaky or numerous enough to prevent the atrocity.  There was a depression going on at the time, so we <em>had to do something</em> and that was certainly something.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think I 'm going to start a business and in addition to SSN 's , I 'm going to start requiring people to sign over Power of Attorney before I let them sign the contract for whatever it is I 'm going to sell.It does n't matter that there was EXTREME concern that this might happen way back when the SSN was invented , it happened anyway.Well , to be fair , that was probably the real point of the exercise .
The opposition even realized it and complained , but they apparently were soothed by the lies or were n't squeaky or numerous enough to prevent the atrocity .
There was a depression going on at the time , so we had to do something and that was certainly something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think I'm going to start a business and in addition to SSN's, I'm going to start requiring people to sign over Power of Attorney before I let them sign the contract for whatever it is I'm going to sell.It doesn't matter that there was EXTREME concern that this might happen way back when the SSN was invented, it happened anyway.Well, to be fair, that was probably the real point of the exercise.
The opposition even realized it and complained, but they apparently were soothed by the lies or weren't squeaky or numerous enough to prevent the atrocity.
There was a depression going on at the time, so we had to do something and that was certainly something.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28424799</id>
	<title>SSN and the Credit Lie</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245694500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are few scams that are basically money generating, its not about security for the customer.<br>* Larger cellular companies charge more per minute and plan on credit plan.<br>* Credit score companies make money selling this information, and they are not correct or regulated, and they differ between companies.</p><p>Basically the mantra, we have to charge higher interest rates on poor credit because they are poor risk, is false. If they could charge everyone the higher interest rates they would.  Thus the reason for some states putting caps on loan fees, and the federal government capping on military (most are minimum wage earners) loans.</p><p>ATT can sell prepaid minutes at 35 cents a minute to poor credit holders at 10 cents to good credit.  They would take every penny they can with the lie of "credit" and they are not the only company doing this, just one of the most visible.</p><p>Its basically a scam, but you have to think why they need your SSN. They need it for credit, so they can figure out how much to charge you.  If any service has to figure out how much more they can charge you, its basically a scam.  This is why the smaller local regional banks and credit unions would verify income to loan money.  But the feds stepped in and told them they had to loan more money, and threatened with "lower bank credit scores" for not loaning money, and mark the banks rating down for now loaning enough money!</p><p>Credit scores, was used against the banks by the feds, and the banks for greed on mortgages.  We all want a capital society, but false credit scores are so ingrained in our banking system that its hurting the poor, ripping off the middle class, and forcing large companies to turn away cash paying customers.</p><p>I wont even go into the whole unregulated federal reserve, which isn't federal but a privately owned bank, that was never audited...</p><p>Ever have a 5 year old ask you the why game?  Try it yourself, why do you need to have use a SSN for a phone? Because we need to do a credit check. Why the credit check? So they can figure out what plan and interest rate to charge you.  Why does a different interst rate, etc...</p><p>We don't tend to do that anymore, just accept and move on.   Common sense is lacking, and if you question something, you must be a nut job.  Why wouldnt you just accept and move on. Trouble maker or nut job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are few scams that are basically money generating , its not about security for the customer .
* Larger cellular companies charge more per minute and plan on credit plan .
* Credit score companies make money selling this information , and they are not correct or regulated , and they differ between companies.Basically the mantra , we have to charge higher interest rates on poor credit because they are poor risk , is false .
If they could charge everyone the higher interest rates they would .
Thus the reason for some states putting caps on loan fees , and the federal government capping on military ( most are minimum wage earners ) loans.ATT can sell prepaid minutes at 35 cents a minute to poor credit holders at 10 cents to good credit .
They would take every penny they can with the lie of " credit " and they are not the only company doing this , just one of the most visible.Its basically a scam , but you have to think why they need your SSN .
They need it for credit , so they can figure out how much to charge you .
If any service has to figure out how much more they can charge you , its basically a scam .
This is why the smaller local regional banks and credit unions would verify income to loan money .
But the feds stepped in and told them they had to loan more money , and threatened with " lower bank credit scores " for not loaning money , and mark the banks rating down for now loaning enough money ! Credit scores , was used against the banks by the feds , and the banks for greed on mortgages .
We all want a capital society , but false credit scores are so ingrained in our banking system that its hurting the poor , ripping off the middle class , and forcing large companies to turn away cash paying customers.I wont even go into the whole unregulated federal reserve , which is n't federal but a privately owned bank , that was never audited...Ever have a 5 year old ask you the why game ?
Try it yourself , why do you need to have use a SSN for a phone ?
Because we need to do a credit check .
Why the credit check ?
So they can figure out what plan and interest rate to charge you .
Why does a different interst rate , etc...We do n't tend to do that anymore , just accept and move on .
Common sense is lacking , and if you question something , you must be a nut job .
Why wouldnt you just accept and move on .
Trouble maker or nut job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are few scams that are basically money generating, its not about security for the customer.
* Larger cellular companies charge more per minute and plan on credit plan.
* Credit score companies make money selling this information, and they are not correct or regulated, and they differ between companies.Basically the mantra, we have to charge higher interest rates on poor credit because they are poor risk, is false.
If they could charge everyone the higher interest rates they would.
Thus the reason for some states putting caps on loan fees, and the federal government capping on military (most are minimum wage earners) loans.ATT can sell prepaid minutes at 35 cents a minute to poor credit holders at 10 cents to good credit.
They would take every penny they can with the lie of "credit" and they are not the only company doing this, just one of the most visible.Its basically a scam, but you have to think why they need your SSN.
They need it for credit, so they can figure out how much to charge you.
If any service has to figure out how much more they can charge you, its basically a scam.
This is why the smaller local regional banks and credit unions would verify income to loan money.
But the feds stepped in and told them they had to loan more money, and threatened with "lower bank credit scores" for not loaning money, and mark the banks rating down for now loaning enough money!Credit scores, was used against the banks by the feds, and the banks for greed on mortgages.
We all want a capital society, but false credit scores are so ingrained in our banking system that its hurting the poor, ripping off the middle class, and forcing large companies to turn away cash paying customers.I wont even go into the whole unregulated federal reserve, which isn't federal but a privately owned bank, that was never audited...Ever have a 5 year old ask you the why game?
Try it yourself, why do you need to have use a SSN for a phone?
Because we need to do a credit check.
Why the credit check?
So they can figure out what plan and interest rate to charge you.
Why does a different interst rate, etc...We don't tend to do that anymore, just accept and move on.
Common sense is lacking, and if you question something, you must be a nut job.
Why wouldnt you just accept and move on.
Trouble maker or nut job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420795</id>
	<title>At the end of the day it's still Sprint</title>
	<author>gelfling</author>
	<datestamp>1245680940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Soviet Union of phone companies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Soviet Union of phone companies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Soviet Union of phone companies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28422279</id>
	<title>sprint dose allow no social</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is not entirely true sprint will allow you to open a account with no social but you have to put a substantial deposit down.  I am a sprint dealer and we open accounts with no social all the time but most people do not want to put the money down.  If that store for some reason will not allow you to open a account with no social then go to another store.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is not entirely true sprint will allow you to open a account with no social but you have to put a substantial deposit down .
I am a sprint dealer and we open accounts with no social all the time but most people do not want to put the money down .
If that store for some reason will not allow you to open a account with no social then go to another store .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is not entirely true sprint will allow you to open a account with no social but you have to put a substantial deposit down.
I am a sprint dealer and we open accounts with no social all the time but most people do not want to put the money down.
If that store for some reason will not allow you to open a account with no social then go to another store.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28432729</id>
	<title>fishing license</title>
	<author>scifiber\_phil</author>
	<datestamp>1245680040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Got to give SSN to get a fishing license. It's a FEDERAL mandate.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Got to give SSN to get a fishing license .
It 's a FEDERAL mandate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Got to give SSN to get a fishing license.
It's a FEDERAL mandate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28423895</id>
	<title>Anyone that isn't a bank or my employeer...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245691440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>will never see my SSN. F*CK Sprint. F*CK the Pre.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>will never see my SSN .
F * CK Sprint .
F * CK the Pre .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>will never see my SSN.
F*CK Sprint.
F*CK the Pre.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420833</id>
	<title>Store Manager Was Probably Wrong -- Call Sprint</title>
	<author>Slashdot Parent</author>
	<datestamp>1245681060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The store manager was probably wrong about a SSN being required to purchase the Pre, but may have been right about needing one to activate your account in-store.</p><p>Call sprint directly at 1-800-sprint1 (verify the number at <a href="http://www.sprint.com/" title="sprint.com">sprint.com</a> [sprint.com]... you shouldn't trust some random joe on the internet...) and speak with someone in sales.  Tell them you want to open an account over the phone so you can buy the Pre in-store.  They should have lots of options at their disposal to get your account opened without an SSN, including deposits, account spending limits, etc.  They can probably run your credit with just your name/address, if you're OK with that.</p><p>Good luck!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The store manager was probably wrong about a SSN being required to purchase the Pre , but may have been right about needing one to activate your account in-store.Call sprint directly at 1-800-sprint1 ( verify the number at sprint.com [ sprint.com ] ... you should n't trust some random joe on the internet... ) and speak with someone in sales .
Tell them you want to open an account over the phone so you can buy the Pre in-store .
They should have lots of options at their disposal to get your account opened without an SSN , including deposits , account spending limits , etc .
They can probably run your credit with just your name/address , if you 're OK with that.Good luck !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The store manager was probably wrong about a SSN being required to purchase the Pre, but may have been right about needing one to activate your account in-store.Call sprint directly at 1-800-sprint1 (verify the number at sprint.com [sprint.com]... you shouldn't trust some random joe on the internet...) and speak with someone in sales.
Tell them you want to open an account over the phone so you can buy the Pre in-store.
They should have lots of options at their disposal to get your account opened without an SSN, including deposits, account spending limits, etc.
They can probably run your credit with just your name/address, if you're OK with that.Good luck!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28426455</id>
	<title>Required SSN for all subsidized phone/plans</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245700380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pretty much all phones at a discount force you to sign up with a plan that needs an SSN #. AT&amp;T, Tmo, Verizon, Sprint... they all need it--so they can get an id with your credit card---there's a lot of fraud with cellphones nowadays.
<p>.</p><p>
Why is this<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. news? Especially with Palm Pre in it, it sorta of make the story sound like:
</p><p>
"<i>SSN required to buy Palm Pre</i>"... therefore, concludes Pre == Evil.
</p><p>.</p><p>
Of course a few later articles, we get, "<i>Tracking thieves with 'find my iPhone</i>" and that article conculdes that Apple == Good.
</p><p>.</p><p>
I call conspiracy among the marketing wonks and Apple fanboys on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. I expected you guys to be better than to be a sell out &amp; manipulate the site...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pretty much all phones at a discount force you to sign up with a plan that needs an SSN # .
AT&amp;T , Tmo , Verizon , Sprint... they all need it--so they can get an id with your credit card---there 's a lot of fraud with cellphones nowadays .
. Why is this / .
news ? Especially with Palm Pre in it , it sorta of make the story sound like : " SSN required to buy Palm Pre " ... therefore , concludes Pre = = Evil .
. Of course a few later articles , we get , " Tracking thieves with 'find my iPhone " and that article conculdes that Apple = = Good .
. I call conspiracy among the marketing wonks and Apple fanboys on / .
I expected you guys to be better than to be a sell out &amp; manipulate the site.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pretty much all phones at a discount force you to sign up with a plan that needs an SSN #.
AT&amp;T, Tmo, Verizon, Sprint... they all need it--so they can get an id with your credit card---there's a lot of fraud with cellphones nowadays.
.
Why is this /.
news? Especially with Palm Pre in it, it sorta of make the story sound like:

"SSN required to buy Palm Pre"... therefore, concludes Pre == Evil.
.
Of course a few later articles, we get, "Tracking thieves with 'find my iPhone" and that article conculdes that Apple == Good.
.
I call conspiracy among the marketing wonks and Apple fanboys on /.
I expected you guys to be better than to be a sell out &amp; manipulate the site...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28431883</id>
	<title>Can buy pre without ssn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245676140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Okay guys, you can buy the pre without giving your ssn. You'll just have to pay a deposit on top of the price of the phone. I know because I used to work for sprint (and tmobile as well).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay guys , you can buy the pre without giving your ssn .
You 'll just have to pay a deposit on top of the price of the phone .
I know because I used to work for sprint ( and tmobile as well ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay guys, you can buy the pre without giving your ssn.
You'll just have to pay a deposit on top of the price of the phone.
I know because I used to work for sprint (and tmobile as well).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28426053</id>
	<title>Re:Gross assumption</title>
	<author>matt20102</author>
	<datestamp>1245699000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>On the front of your SSN card it says "Not For Identification", yet businesses have routinely done so for decades.</p></div><p>It's true that SS cards used to say that, but that hasn't been the case for decades...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>On the front of your SSN card it says " Not For Identification " , yet businesses have routinely done so for decades.It 's true that SS cards used to say that , but that has n't been the case for decades.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the front of your SSN card it says "Not For Identification", yet businesses have routinely done so for decades.It's true that SS cards used to say that, but that hasn't been the case for decades...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419431</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418645</id>
	<title>Re:And?</title>
	<author>Dayze!Confused</author>
	<datestamp>1245665580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the article, I am guessing Verizon, since the guy is signed up for their service already.  But hey, maybe he was willing to give Verizon his SSN.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From the article , I am guessing Verizon , since the guy is signed up for their service already .
But hey , maybe he was willing to give Verizon his SSN .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the article, I am guessing Verizon, since the guy is signed up for their service already.
But hey, maybe he was willing to give Verizon his SSN.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418601</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28425915</id>
	<title>What SSN?!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245698400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Canadian law explicitly forbade asking person's SSN. End of the story</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Canadian law explicitly forbade asking person 's SSN .
End of the story</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Canadian law explicitly forbade asking person's SSN.
End of the story</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28420509</id>
	<title>Front page?  Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245679740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Welcome to the 2000s!</p><p>Seriously, all cell phone companies have been "requiring" this forever.</p><p>You chose not to use the option they gave you after you refused to give your SSN.  If not giving your SSN is that important to you, pony up the extra cash as everyone else has to, at any cell phone company.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Welcome to the 2000s ! Seriously , all cell phone companies have been " requiring " this forever.You chose not to use the option they gave you after you refused to give your SSN .
If not giving your SSN is that important to you , pony up the extra cash as everyone else has to , at any cell phone company .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Welcome to the 2000s!Seriously, all cell phone companies have been "requiring" this forever.You chose not to use the option they gave you after you refused to give your SSN.
If not giving your SSN is that important to you, pony up the extra cash as everyone else has to, at any cell phone company.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28421781</id>
	<title>Stupid article</title>
	<author>Xabraxas</author>
	<datestamp>1245684360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Have you people never signed up for a cell phone before?  Every cell phone contract requires a credit check.  Credit checks are generally performed with the SSN.  There is no conspiracy here.  This isn't anything specific to the Pre or to Sprint.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you people never signed up for a cell phone before ?
Every cell phone contract requires a credit check .
Credit checks are generally performed with the SSN .
There is no conspiracy here .
This is n't anything specific to the Pre or to Sprint .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you people never signed up for a cell phone before?
Every cell phone contract requires a credit check.
Credit checks are generally performed with the SSN.
There is no conspiracy here.
This isn't anything specific to the Pre or to Sprint.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418937</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to the watchlist</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245668280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>If the SSN is there to verify credit, and only to do this, then a full up-front payment should utterly negate this need</i> </p><p>So how much should that up-front payment be?  Let's set it at $25,000 just in case you make $24500-worth of calls before you default on payment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the SSN is there to verify credit , and only to do this , then a full up-front payment should utterly negate this need So how much should that up-front payment be ?
Let 's set it at $ 25,000 just in case you make $ 24500-worth of calls before you default on payment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the SSN is there to verify credit, and only to do this, then a full up-front payment should utterly negate this need So how much should that up-front payment be?
Let's set it at $25,000 just in case you make $24500-worth of calls before you default on payment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28418677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28422271</id>
	<title>Re: Canadian SSN</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245685980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Canada, it's SIN (social insurance number), not SSN. Not almost nobody ever needs it, expect employers and the government. Everyone else has no reason to ask for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Canada , it 's SIN ( social insurance number ) , not SSN .
Not almost nobody ever needs it , expect employers and the government .
Everyone else has no reason to ask for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Canada, it's SIN (social insurance number), not SSN.
Not almost nobody ever needs it, expect employers and the government.
Everyone else has no reason to ask for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419817</id>
	<title>Re:Credit Rating Agencies in the US...</title>
	<author>Neoprofin</author>
	<datestamp>1245675300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd say laziness.<br> <br>

If you purchase a firearm in the U.S. there's a blank for your SSN, it's entirely optional and they're required by law to tell you that, but it really cuts down the number of background checks that go awry because you share a few other credentials with someone who's done some bad things.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd say laziness .
If you purchase a firearm in the U.S. there 's a blank for your SSN , it 's entirely optional and they 're required by law to tell you that , but it really cuts down the number of background checks that go awry because you share a few other credentials with someone who 's done some bad things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd say laziness.
If you purchase a firearm in the U.S. there's a blank for your SSN, it's entirely optional and they're required by law to tell you that, but it really cuts down the number of background checks that go awry because you share a few other credentials with someone who's done some bad things.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_2359255.28419429</parent>
</comment>
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