<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_21_1618242</id>
	<title>How RIAA Case Should Have Played Out</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1245606360000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">NewYorkCountryLawyer</a> writes <i>"If a regular 'country lawyer' like myself had taken a case like the RIAA's in <a href="http://beckermanlegal.com/pdf/?file=/Documents.htm&amp;s=Virgin\_v\_Thomas">Capitol Records v. Thomas-Rasset</a> to court, he or she would have been laughed out of the courthouse. But when it's the RIAA suing, the plaintiffs are <a href="http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/06/18/227219/In-Round-2-Jammie-Thomas-Jury-Awards-RIAA-1920000?from=rss">awarded a $1.92 million verdict</a> for the infringement of $23.76 worth of song files. That's because <a href="http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/#7100311772822486603">RIAA litigation proceeds in a parallel universe</a>, which on its face looks like litigation, but isn't. On my blog I fantasize as to how the trial would have ended had it taken place not in the 'parallel universe,' but in the real world of litigation. In that world, the case would have been dismissed. And if the Judge had submitted it to the jury instead of dismissing, and the jury had ruled in favor of the RIAA, the 'statutory damages' awarded would have been less than $18,000."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>NewYorkCountryLawyer writes " If a regular 'country lawyer ' like myself had taken a case like the RIAA 's in Capitol Records v. Thomas-Rasset to court , he or she would have been laughed out of the courthouse .
But when it 's the RIAA suing , the plaintiffs are awarded a $ 1.92 million verdict for the infringement of $ 23.76 worth of song files .
That 's because RIAA litigation proceeds in a parallel universe , which on its face looks like litigation , but is n't .
On my blog I fantasize as to how the trial would have ended had it taken place not in the 'parallel universe, ' but in the real world of litigation .
In that world , the case would have been dismissed .
And if the Judge had submitted it to the jury instead of dismissing , and the jury had ruled in favor of the RIAA , the 'statutory damages ' awarded would have been less than $ 18,000 .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "If a regular 'country lawyer' like myself had taken a case like the RIAA's in Capitol Records v. Thomas-Rasset to court, he or she would have been laughed out of the courthouse.
But when it's the RIAA suing, the plaintiffs are awarded a $1.92 million verdict for the infringement of $23.76 worth of song files.
That's because RIAA litigation proceeds in a parallel universe, which on its face looks like litigation, but isn't.
On my blog I fantasize as to how the trial would have ended had it taken place not in the 'parallel universe,' but in the real world of litigation.
In that world, the case would have been dismissed.
And if the Judge had submitted it to the jury instead of dismissing, and the jury had ruled in favor of the RIAA, the 'statutory damages' awarded would have been less than $18,000.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28426963</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA</title>
	<author>sabt-pestnu</author>
	<datestamp>1245702240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is the only way we can make our voices heard... DO NOT BUY FROM THEM <b>loudly</b>.</p><p>There, fixed it for ya.   A boycott only works if both the general public and the boycott target know that you're doing it.  If it doesn't significantly impact their sales (and the 30 albums you aren't buying this year ain't gonna cut it), it won't change their behavior.</p><p>A Ford Pinto blowing up is not news.  A Ford Pinto blowing up with a kitten inside is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is the only way we can make our voices heard... DO NOT BUY FROM THEM loudly.There , fixed it for ya .
A boycott only works if both the general public and the boycott target know that you 're doing it .
If it does n't significantly impact their sales ( and the 30 albums you are n't buying this year ai n't gon na cut it ) , it wo n't change their behavior.A Ford Pinto blowing up is not news .
A Ford Pinto blowing up with a kitten inside is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is the only way we can make our voices heard... DO NOT BUY FROM THEM loudly.There, fixed it for ya.
A boycott only works if both the general public and the boycott target know that you're doing it.
If it doesn't significantly impact their sales (and the 30 albums you aren't buying this year ain't gonna cut it), it won't change their behavior.A Ford Pinto blowing up is not news.
A Ford Pinto blowing up with a kitten inside is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412899</id>
	<title>Re:I think you have it backwards</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1245616740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are several issues that need to be determined.</p><p>First - suppose you run a store, and some kid comes in, steals a candy bar, and eats it.  You call the law, you call the parents, everyone shows up.  Most definitely, someone owes you SOMETHING.  The candy bar has a street value of about a dollar.  (Oddly, that's pretty close to the street value of a single soundtrack.)  What do you demand as recompense?  Most store  owners don't want the dollar, because they are pissed off.  Most store owners don't demand a million dollar payoff, either.  Among other reasons, neither the parents, nor the cops, nor a judge, nor any jury is going to go along with such a thing.</p><p>So - what is reasonable?  Personally, I make the KID pay for his candy bar, by working it off.  Tell the parents that he can work in the store for a week, cleaning, mopping, or whatever, OR, you'll take the matter to court.</p><p>Compare that to RIAA.  They want THOUSANDS of dollars for a ripped off song which has a similar street value to my candy bar.  Do you not think that is preposterous?  Do you not think that there are issues that need to be resolved here?</p><p>In my most honest opinion, Jammie owes the record companies a couple dollars to pay for her downloaded songs.  She owes something in the way of punitive damages.  24 songs, at a buck apiece, is 24 bucks.  Drawing on ancient tort law, let's treble the damages, so she now owes 72 bucks.  If she had been offered this deal from the get-go, her conscience might have convinced her that 72 bucks was a good deal, and paid it.</p><p>Even if it goes to court, and a hard fought case goes to RIAA, no sane judge is going to award a million bucks.  I invite you to check out your own court system in your own home town.  First time offenders convicted of petty theft generally pay restitution, a small fine, court costs, and community service.  If there is no lawyer involved, total cost is maybe $1500 bucks.  Paying a lawyer in my home town would add 500 bucks to the bill, your mileage may differ.</p><p>Personally, as I've said, Jammy probably is guilty of something.  But, guilty or not, the penalty has to be something within the realms of reason.</p><p>HOWEVER!!!  Illegal evidence has never been admissable in a criminal court, nor should it be encouraged in a civil court.  RIAA has a lot to answer for, regarding their "investigative" techniques.  MediaSentry, among other things, has been shot so full of holes, it resembles the Titanic.  Forensic evidence is never properly obtained, documented, or presented.  The courts don't even seem to understand what all this evidence is SUPPOSED to mean, let alone examine it to determine if it's legal, and technically correct.</p><p>Bottom line, RIAA are a bunch of parasites who manage to get by because they shout "THIEF" more loudly than their victims can.</p><p>Let's put RIAA out of everyone's misery, then we might all get together to come up with some sane laws.  Note, I don't even say "fair laws".  For the sake of this argument, I only require "sane".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are several issues that need to be determined.First - suppose you run a store , and some kid comes in , steals a candy bar , and eats it .
You call the law , you call the parents , everyone shows up .
Most definitely , someone owes you SOMETHING .
The candy bar has a street value of about a dollar .
( Oddly , that 's pretty close to the street value of a single soundtrack .
) What do you demand as recompense ?
Most store owners do n't want the dollar , because they are pissed off .
Most store owners do n't demand a million dollar payoff , either .
Among other reasons , neither the parents , nor the cops , nor a judge , nor any jury is going to go along with such a thing.So - what is reasonable ?
Personally , I make the KID pay for his candy bar , by working it off .
Tell the parents that he can work in the store for a week , cleaning , mopping , or whatever , OR , you 'll take the matter to court.Compare that to RIAA .
They want THOUSANDS of dollars for a ripped off song which has a similar street value to my candy bar .
Do you not think that is preposterous ?
Do you not think that there are issues that need to be resolved here ? In my most honest opinion , Jammie owes the record companies a couple dollars to pay for her downloaded songs .
She owes something in the way of punitive damages .
24 songs , at a buck apiece , is 24 bucks .
Drawing on ancient tort law , let 's treble the damages , so she now owes 72 bucks .
If she had been offered this deal from the get-go , her conscience might have convinced her that 72 bucks was a good deal , and paid it.Even if it goes to court , and a hard fought case goes to RIAA , no sane judge is going to award a million bucks .
I invite you to check out your own court system in your own home town .
First time offenders convicted of petty theft generally pay restitution , a small fine , court costs , and community service .
If there is no lawyer involved , total cost is maybe $ 1500 bucks .
Paying a lawyer in my home town would add 500 bucks to the bill , your mileage may differ.Personally , as I 've said , Jammy probably is guilty of something .
But , guilty or not , the penalty has to be something within the realms of reason.HOWEVER ! ! !
Illegal evidence has never been admissable in a criminal court , nor should it be encouraged in a civil court .
RIAA has a lot to answer for , regarding their " investigative " techniques .
MediaSentry , among other things , has been shot so full of holes , it resembles the Titanic .
Forensic evidence is never properly obtained , documented , or presented .
The courts do n't even seem to understand what all this evidence is SUPPOSED to mean , let alone examine it to determine if it 's legal , and technically correct.Bottom line , RIAA are a bunch of parasites who manage to get by because they shout " THIEF " more loudly than their victims can.Let 's put RIAA out of everyone 's misery , then we might all get together to come up with some sane laws .
Note , I do n't even say " fair laws " .
For the sake of this argument , I only require " sane " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are several issues that need to be determined.First - suppose you run a store, and some kid comes in, steals a candy bar, and eats it.
You call the law, you call the parents, everyone shows up.
Most definitely, someone owes you SOMETHING.
The candy bar has a street value of about a dollar.
(Oddly, that's pretty close to the street value of a single soundtrack.
)  What do you demand as recompense?
Most store  owners don't want the dollar, because they are pissed off.
Most store owners don't demand a million dollar payoff, either.
Among other reasons, neither the parents, nor the cops, nor a judge, nor any jury is going to go along with such a thing.So - what is reasonable?
Personally, I make the KID pay for his candy bar, by working it off.
Tell the parents that he can work in the store for a week, cleaning, mopping, or whatever, OR, you'll take the matter to court.Compare that to RIAA.
They want THOUSANDS of dollars for a ripped off song which has a similar street value to my candy bar.
Do you not think that is preposterous?
Do you not think that there are issues that need to be resolved here?In my most honest opinion, Jammie owes the record companies a couple dollars to pay for her downloaded songs.
She owes something in the way of punitive damages.
24 songs, at a buck apiece, is 24 bucks.
Drawing on ancient tort law, let's treble the damages, so she now owes 72 bucks.
If she had been offered this deal from the get-go, her conscience might have convinced her that 72 bucks was a good deal, and paid it.Even if it goes to court, and a hard fought case goes to RIAA, no sane judge is going to award a million bucks.
I invite you to check out your own court system in your own home town.
First time offenders convicted of petty theft generally pay restitution, a small fine, court costs, and community service.
If there is no lawyer involved, total cost is maybe $1500 bucks.
Paying a lawyer in my home town would add 500 bucks to the bill, your mileage may differ.Personally, as I've said, Jammy probably is guilty of something.
But, guilty or not, the penalty has to be something within the realms of reason.HOWEVER!!!
Illegal evidence has never been admissable in a criminal court, nor should it be encouraged in a civil court.
RIAA has a lot to answer for, regarding their "investigative" techniques.
MediaSentry, among other things, has been shot so full of holes, it resembles the Titanic.
Forensic evidence is never properly obtained, documented, or presented.
The courts don't even seem to understand what all this evidence is SUPPOSED to mean, let alone examine it to determine if it's legal, and technically correct.Bottom line, RIAA are a bunch of parasites who manage to get by because they shout "THIEF" more loudly than their victims can.Let's put RIAA out of everyone's misery, then we might all get together to come up with some sane laws.
Note, I don't even say "fair laws".
For the sake of this argument, I only require "sane".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412073</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414039</id>
	<title>Re:Advertise</title>
	<author>NewYorkCountryLawyer</author>
	<datestamp>1245582540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Hey NYCL, maybe you'd be interested in heading up a campaign to collect some funds from those of us in the know to educate the masses. I know from experience that the biggest problem with these court cases is ignorance. The judges sound like they're catching up, but I believe the persons on jury panels are still ignorant of the real dollar values involved and the facts surrounding the RIAA's abuses of the judicial system.

The first thing that comes to mind is that there are scads of advertisements from the MPAA and the RIAA that go to great lengths to equate copyright infringement with criminal theft (a very successful campaign I might point out based upon ignorant comments on this very website). What the world needs right now is not love, but balance. We're lacking *any* kind of counterpoint regarding consumer digital rights. I'd be thrilled to pieces to see one shred of advertisement (a billboard ad, paid ad time on network TV, etc.) that presented the opposition to the RIAA and the MPAA.

In short, if someone were to take the lead and head up a group that took funds from the public that were then used in a campaign of this sort, then I would be the first person in line to donate some cash.

I know, the EFF is *supposed* to be leading the charge on this, but I've seen not one physical manifestation of their efforts. Advertising on the Internet is cheap...but obviously not as effective as a commercial that equates stealing a car with downloading a song.

Anyone?</p></div><p>Everything you say is right, except for the part about me being the one to do it. I'm a lawyer. That's all I am.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey NYCL , maybe you 'd be interested in heading up a campaign to collect some funds from those of us in the know to educate the masses .
I know from experience that the biggest problem with these court cases is ignorance .
The judges sound like they 're catching up , but I believe the persons on jury panels are still ignorant of the real dollar values involved and the facts surrounding the RIAA 's abuses of the judicial system .
The first thing that comes to mind is that there are scads of advertisements from the MPAA and the RIAA that go to great lengths to equate copyright infringement with criminal theft ( a very successful campaign I might point out based upon ignorant comments on this very website ) .
What the world needs right now is not love , but balance .
We 're lacking * any * kind of counterpoint regarding consumer digital rights .
I 'd be thrilled to pieces to see one shred of advertisement ( a billboard ad , paid ad time on network TV , etc .
) that presented the opposition to the RIAA and the MPAA .
In short , if someone were to take the lead and head up a group that took funds from the public that were then used in a campaign of this sort , then I would be the first person in line to donate some cash .
I know , the EFF is * supposed * to be leading the charge on this , but I 've seen not one physical manifestation of their efforts .
Advertising on the Internet is cheap...but obviously not as effective as a commercial that equates stealing a car with downloading a song .
Anyone ? Everything you say is right , except for the part about me being the one to do it .
I 'm a lawyer .
That 's all I am .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey NYCL, maybe you'd be interested in heading up a campaign to collect some funds from those of us in the know to educate the masses.
I know from experience that the biggest problem with these court cases is ignorance.
The judges sound like they're catching up, but I believe the persons on jury panels are still ignorant of the real dollar values involved and the facts surrounding the RIAA's abuses of the judicial system.
The first thing that comes to mind is that there are scads of advertisements from the MPAA and the RIAA that go to great lengths to equate copyright infringement with criminal theft (a very successful campaign I might point out based upon ignorant comments on this very website).
What the world needs right now is not love, but balance.
We're lacking *any* kind of counterpoint regarding consumer digital rights.
I'd be thrilled to pieces to see one shred of advertisement (a billboard ad, paid ad time on network TV, etc.
) that presented the opposition to the RIAA and the MPAA.
In short, if someone were to take the lead and head up a group that took funds from the public that were then used in a campaign of this sort, then I would be the first person in line to donate some cash.
I know, the EFF is *supposed* to be leading the charge on this, but I've seen not one physical manifestation of their efforts.
Advertising on the Internet is cheap...but obviously not as effective as a commercial that equates stealing a car with downloading a song.
Anyone?Everything you say is right, except for the part about me being the one to do it.
I'm a lawyer.
That's all I am.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412507</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413095</id>
	<title>Re:Monday morning quarterbacking</title>
	<author>Moryath</author>
	<datestamp>1245574980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bullshit.</p><p><i>If he made that argument at trial, the RIAA would almost certainly have introduced evidence that bit-for-bit identical copies of the songs in question are available on Kazaa, that such an identical copy is unlikely to have occurred if she ripped the song herself</i></p><p>Digital technology is digital technology. Rip the same track, compress with the same software algorithm and bitrate, and you will get the same output every time. If there's one thing digital tech is good at, it's <b>being consistent</b>.</p><p><i>I do not believe there is any mandatory authority on this point for the District of Minnesota, which means that the RIAA lawyers may well have been successful in persuading the judge to adopt a one song, one work basis for calculating statutory damages.</i></p><p>If the "single" even still existed, I'd be tempted to give you benefit of the doubt. The MafiAA has been doing their best to sell "album only" setups for over three decades now.</p><p>Hell, part of the reason I can't stand Guitar Hero: World Tour is that their download system is primarily set up for "albums", rather than a la carte.</p><p><i>It also does a lot to poison the potential jury pool for future copyright litigation, which is of great interest to a lawyer who works those kinds of cases on the side of the defense.</i></p><p>One of the crappiest thing about the modern legal system is that if you have any clue about the law (read: you're not a retard from the boonies or the projects who will believe whatever they heard John Stewart/Steven Colbert spouting last night without a filter) you're not likely to be part of the jury pool.</p><p>Know what the most likely ways to get yourself kicked of a jury are?<br>- Be an Eagle Scout (or Gold Award Girl Scout).<br>- Be an ethnic nonminority.<br>- Have over a 75 IQ.<br>- Show any indication that you are capable of understanding the law independently. People have actually been kicked off of juries for requesting a <b>written copy of the relevant law</b> in the jury room.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bullshit.If he made that argument at trial , the RIAA would almost certainly have introduced evidence that bit-for-bit identical copies of the songs in question are available on Kazaa , that such an identical copy is unlikely to have occurred if she ripped the song herselfDigital technology is digital technology .
Rip the same track , compress with the same software algorithm and bitrate , and you will get the same output every time .
If there 's one thing digital tech is good at , it 's being consistent.I do not believe there is any mandatory authority on this point for the District of Minnesota , which means that the RIAA lawyers may well have been successful in persuading the judge to adopt a one song , one work basis for calculating statutory damages.If the " single " even still existed , I 'd be tempted to give you benefit of the doubt .
The MafiAA has been doing their best to sell " album only " setups for over three decades now.Hell , part of the reason I ca n't stand Guitar Hero : World Tour is that their download system is primarily set up for " albums " , rather than a la carte.It also does a lot to poison the potential jury pool for future copyright litigation , which is of great interest to a lawyer who works those kinds of cases on the side of the defense.One of the crappiest thing about the modern legal system is that if you have any clue about the law ( read : you 're not a retard from the boonies or the projects who will believe whatever they heard John Stewart/Steven Colbert spouting last night without a filter ) you 're not likely to be part of the jury pool.Know what the most likely ways to get yourself kicked of a jury are ? - Be an Eagle Scout ( or Gold Award Girl Scout ) .- Be an ethnic nonminority.- Have over a 75 IQ.- Show any indication that you are capable of understanding the law independently .
People have actually been kicked off of juries for requesting a written copy of the relevant law in the jury room .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bullshit.If he made that argument at trial, the RIAA would almost certainly have introduced evidence that bit-for-bit identical copies of the songs in question are available on Kazaa, that such an identical copy is unlikely to have occurred if she ripped the song herselfDigital technology is digital technology.
Rip the same track, compress with the same software algorithm and bitrate, and you will get the same output every time.
If there's one thing digital tech is good at, it's being consistent.I do not believe there is any mandatory authority on this point for the District of Minnesota, which means that the RIAA lawyers may well have been successful in persuading the judge to adopt a one song, one work basis for calculating statutory damages.If the "single" even still existed, I'd be tempted to give you benefit of the doubt.
The MafiAA has been doing their best to sell "album only" setups for over three decades now.Hell, part of the reason I can't stand Guitar Hero: World Tour is that their download system is primarily set up for "albums", rather than a la carte.It also does a lot to poison the potential jury pool for future copyright litigation, which is of great interest to a lawyer who works those kinds of cases on the side of the defense.One of the crappiest thing about the modern legal system is that if you have any clue about the law (read: you're not a retard from the boonies or the projects who will believe whatever they heard John Stewart/Steven Colbert spouting last night without a filter) you're not likely to be part of the jury pool.Know what the most likely ways to get yourself kicked of a jury are?- Be an Eagle Scout (or Gold Award Girl Scout).- Be an ethnic nonminority.- Have over a 75 IQ.- Show any indication that you are capable of understanding the law independently.
People have actually been kicked off of juries for requesting a written copy of the relevant law in the jury room.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412353</id>
	<title>If you're on a jury for cases like this, NULLIFY.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245612300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're ever on a jury in the United States, the legal system will wrongly try to convince you that they're either guilty or not guilty, but there is a third way: nullification or veto powers.</p><p>This is when you think the law is bad, or you otherwise cannot convict them under it by your conscience. It still exists to this day, but simply remains mostly unknown.</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury\_nullification" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury\_nullification</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>In this case, I would have absolutely nullified a potential $2 million fine. Did she do it? Sure. But it's a bad law resulting in excessive fines.</p><p>It only takes one juror who knows his or her rights to stop this kind of crap. For more information as your rights at a juror, see the Fully Informed Jury Association.</p><p><a href="http://fija.org/" title="fija.org" rel="nofollow">http://fija.org/</a> [fija.org]</p><p>-SKO</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're ever on a jury in the United States , the legal system will wrongly try to convince you that they 're either guilty or not guilty , but there is a third way : nullification or veto powers.This is when you think the law is bad , or you otherwise can not convict them under it by your conscience .
It still exists to this day , but simply remains mostly unknown.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury \ _nullification [ wikipedia.org ] In this case , I would have absolutely nullified a potential $ 2 million fine .
Did she do it ?
Sure. But it 's a bad law resulting in excessive fines.It only takes one juror who knows his or her rights to stop this kind of crap .
For more information as your rights at a juror , see the Fully Informed Jury Association.http : //fija.org/ [ fija.org ] -SKO</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're ever on a jury in the United States, the legal system will wrongly try to convince you that they're either guilty or not guilty, but there is a third way: nullification or veto powers.This is when you think the law is bad, or you otherwise cannot convict them under it by your conscience.
It still exists to this day, but simply remains mostly unknown.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury\_nullification [wikipedia.org]In this case, I would have absolutely nullified a potential $2 million fine.
Did she do it?
Sure. But it's a bad law resulting in excessive fines.It only takes one juror who knows his or her rights to stop this kind of crap.
For more information as your rights at a juror, see the Fully Informed Jury Association.http://fija.org/ [fija.org]-SKO</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28437033</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense</title>
	<author>CountBrass</author>
	<datestamp>1245760560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The square root of -1.92 million dollars is the product of the square root of -1 (i) and the square root of 1.92 million dollars or ~1385.5i</htmltext>
<tokenext>The square root of -1.92 million dollars is the product of the square root of -1 ( i ) and the square root of 1.92 million dollars or ~ 1385.5i</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The square root of -1.92 million dollars is the product of the square root of -1 (i) and the square root of 1.92 million dollars or ~1385.5i</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414489</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28423897</id>
	<title>Re:I think you have it backwards</title>
	<author>cliffski</author>
	<datestamp>1245691500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you are correct, it should have been about $1500 max. Which is what the RIAA originally wanted to settle for.</p><p>And she refused</p><p>And she refused again</p><p>And again</p><p>And every time she has done so, she has made things way worse for herself, to the point where now a JURY choose to award the maximum possible fine just to shut this woman up. Even the RIAA admitted they did not expect to get, or want the maximum award.</p><p>The reason this court case has got so ridiculous is because she is either stupid, or advised by stupid people who want to use her to whine at the record companies.</p><p>Any sane individual would have settled out of court for the initial amount. She has nobody to blame at any point for this saga than herself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you are correct , it should have been about $ 1500 max .
Which is what the RIAA originally wanted to settle for.And she refusedAnd she refused againAnd againAnd every time she has done so , she has made things way worse for herself , to the point where now a JURY choose to award the maximum possible fine just to shut this woman up .
Even the RIAA admitted they did not expect to get , or want the maximum award.The reason this court case has got so ridiculous is because she is either stupid , or advised by stupid people who want to use her to whine at the record companies.Any sane individual would have settled out of court for the initial amount .
She has nobody to blame at any point for this saga than herself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you are correct, it should have been about $1500 max.
Which is what the RIAA originally wanted to settle for.And she refusedAnd she refused againAnd againAnd every time she has done so, she has made things way worse for herself, to the point where now a JURY choose to award the maximum possible fine just to shut this woman up.
Even the RIAA admitted they did not expect to get, or want the maximum award.The reason this court case has got so ridiculous is because she is either stupid, or advised by stupid people who want to use her to whine at the record companies.Any sane individual would have settled out of court for the initial amount.
She has nobody to blame at any point for this saga than herself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412899</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413071</id>
	<title>A fix for the world economy</title>
	<author>Mal-2</author>
	<datestamp>1245617940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First, note that a <a href="http://apina.biz/17542.jpg" title="apina.biz">single download is worth 3 and a third dead people.</a> [apina.biz] Obviously something is a bit out of kilter here, but let's assume at this point that it is the valuation of dead people.</p><p>At $80,000 per song, I estimate the value of my hard drive at $1.8 BILLION dollars. Yes, billion with a B. By that logic, I should be able to copy my collection onto cheap external hard drives (Seagate's outlet store was just selling them for $25) and mail them out to five people. Those people would then pass on the billions of free dollars to five others, and so on, and so on, and so on... Just think about it, no more foreclosed homes, no more poverty, no more hunger!</p><p>What you say? It's imaginary money? But the judicial system just ruled it real!</p><p>ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.</p><p>Mal-2</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First , note that a single download is worth 3 and a third dead people .
[ apina.biz ] Obviously something is a bit out of kilter here , but let 's assume at this point that it is the valuation of dead people.At $ 80,000 per song , I estimate the value of my hard drive at $ 1.8 BILLION dollars .
Yes , billion with a B. By that logic , I should be able to copy my collection onto cheap external hard drives ( Seagate 's outlet store was just selling them for $ 25 ) and mail them out to five people .
Those people would then pass on the billions of free dollars to five others , and so on , and so on , and so on... Just think about it , no more foreclosed homes , no more poverty , no more hunger ! What you say ?
It 's imaginary money ?
But the judicial system just ruled it real ! ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.Mal-2</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, note that a single download is worth 3 and a third dead people.
[apina.biz] Obviously something is a bit out of kilter here, but let's assume at this point that it is the valuation of dead people.At $80,000 per song, I estimate the value of my hard drive at $1.8 BILLION dollars.
Yes, billion with a B. By that logic, I should be able to copy my collection onto cheap external hard drives (Seagate's outlet store was just selling them for $25) and mail them out to five people.
Those people would then pass on the billions of free dollars to five others, and so on, and so on, and so on... Just think about it, no more foreclosed homes, no more poverty, no more hunger!What you say?
It's imaginary money?
But the judicial system just ruled it real!ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.Mal-2</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412837</id>
	<title>the good news about the verdict is..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245616380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I now have several billion dollars worth of cds sitting at home that I can sell at the new going rate and retire off of.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I now have several billion dollars worth of cds sitting at home that I can sell at the new going rate and retire off of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I now have several billion dollars worth of cds sitting at home that I can sell at the new going rate and retire off of.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412037</id>
	<title>Makes sense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245610260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The RIAA represent imaginary goods, so their cases take place in an imaginary land.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The RIAA represent imaginary goods , so their cases take place in an imaginary land .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The RIAA represent imaginary goods, so their cases take place in an imaginary land.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412705</id>
	<title>Well, yeah</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245615360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's because you're a shitty lawyer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's because you 're a shitty lawyer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's because you're a shitty lawyer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413691</id>
	<title>Its not fraud if you "force" them to pay $1.92 M</title>
	<author>Bob\_Who</author>
	<datestamp>1245579660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>....bidding voluntarily to the $1.92 Million price tag on Ebay is way too fair, and therefore, should be considered "fraud".</htmltext>
<tokenext>....bidding voluntarily to the $ 1.92 Million price tag on Ebay is way too fair , and therefore , should be considered " fraud " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>....bidding voluntarily to the $1.92 Million price tag on Ebay is way too fair, and therefore, should be considered "fraud".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412179</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412447</id>
	<title>Re:I guess we've all learned a lesson...</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1245612840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dammit.  I had mods in this thread, but this typo is too funny to ignore:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>google about our Jail situation, where they have a <b>comuter</b> program...</p></div><p>That <em>is</em> a bad overcrowding problem, indeed, if measures like that need to be taken.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dammit .
I had mods in this thread , but this typo is too funny to ignore : google about our Jail situation , where they have a comuter program...That is a bad overcrowding problem , indeed , if measures like that need to be taken .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dammit.
I had mods in this thread, but this typo is too funny to ignore:google about our Jail situation, where they have a comuter program...That is a bad overcrowding problem, indeed, if measures like that need to be taken.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414081</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245582900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>what if she purchased the music at a used music store, then the riaa would have gotten nothing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what if she purchased the music at a used music store , then the riaa would have gotten nothing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what if she purchased the music at a used music store, then the riaa would have gotten nothing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412581</id>
	<title>This is good</title>
	<author>macemoneta</author>
	<datestamp>1245614040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When your friend starts eating his toast with the buttered side down, he's just a little quirky.</p><p>When he packages his hair and nail clippings and burns them on a toy boat in the backyard pool, he's eccentric.</p><p>When he kills the neighbor's cat and wears the skin on his head proclaiming himself the beast master, he's bat-shit insane.</p><p>We've reached stage three with the RIAA, and now everyone can see it.  It's time for treatment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When your friend starts eating his toast with the buttered side down , he 's just a little quirky.When he packages his hair and nail clippings and burns them on a toy boat in the backyard pool , he 's eccentric.When he kills the neighbor 's cat and wears the skin on his head proclaiming himself the beast master , he 's bat-shit insane.We 've reached stage three with the RIAA , and now everyone can see it .
It 's time for treatment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When your friend starts eating his toast with the buttered side down, he's just a little quirky.When he packages his hair and nail clippings and burns them on a toy boat in the backyard pool, he's eccentric.When he kills the neighbor's cat and wears the skin on his head proclaiming himself the beast master, he's bat-shit insane.We've reached stage three with the RIAA, and now everyone can see it.
It's time for treatment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412999</id>
	<title>Re:Slashdot Tag Racism</title>
	<author>funkatron</author>
	<datestamp>1245617400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's religious discrimination not racism. You cant choose your race, you can choose your religion. Still doesn't make it right tho.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's religious discrimination not racism .
You cant choose your race , you can choose your religion .
Still does n't make it right tho .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's religious discrimination not racism.
You cant choose your race, you can choose your religion.
Still doesn't make it right tho.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412285</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413849</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245581040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Tough luck on the verdict, USA. I am laughing at you."</p><p>quoth wiki on private\_copying\_levy : Canada's current levies are as follows: $0.24 per unit for Audio Cassette tape (40min or longer); $0.21 per unit for CD-R Audio, CD-RW-Audio &amp; MiniDisc; $0.21 per unit for CD-R, CD-RW (non audio). In 2009 the levy on CDs and MiniDiscs will rise to $0.29</p><p>You guys pay far more per year than we do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Tough luck on the verdict , USA .
I am laughing at you .
" quoth wiki on private \ _copying \ _levy : Canada 's current levies are as follows : $ 0.24 per unit for Audio Cassette tape ( 40min or longer ) ; $ 0.21 per unit for CD-R Audio , CD-RW-Audio &amp; MiniDisc ; $ 0.21 per unit for CD-R , CD-RW ( non audio ) .
In 2009 the levy on CDs and MiniDiscs will rise to $ 0.29You guys pay far more per year than we do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Tough luck on the verdict, USA.
I am laughing at you.
"quoth wiki on private\_copying\_levy : Canada's current levies are as follows: $0.24 per unit for Audio Cassette tape (40min or longer); $0.21 per unit for CD-R Audio, CD-RW-Audio &amp; MiniDisc; $0.21 per unit for CD-R, CD-RW (non audio).
In 2009 the levy on CDs and MiniDiscs will rise to $0.29You guys pay far more per year than we do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412609</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414293</id>
	<title>Does this defense work?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245584880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, I am an AC, but I do have a very genuine question which I am hoping somebody with both technical and law knowledge can answer.</p><p>If a good is degraded while being attempted to re-produce, does the original copyright still apply?</p><p>For example, I have seen live amateur musicians playing famous "copyrighted" songs where they tell before performance that they would change the lyrics a word or to two to avoid the "infringement" issue. Because it is not the same thing, the copyright does not apply.</p><p>I am sure that if I hear a tune playing in FM radio, and I record it from the radio, then even though it is a copy, I have not infringed anything. Two possible reasons for this infringement waiver could be 1) because the audio quality is much degraded, or 2) this is fair use, I am just capturing what I am hearing, and my hearing was legal.</p><p>If the degradation in quality is reason, then suppose if person A uses a DVD ripper that degrades the quality to 50\% (say to fit a 8.5GB disk into a 4.7GB) disk, but still good enough for viewing, is it still the same thing? Every damn bits are different, so how is this a "copy"?</p><p>If this quality degradation is not an issue, then even someone repeating a movie line would be copyright infringement since he has made a copy of a part of the movie audio (though very poor in quality though) using a reproduction machine that consists of human memory cells and human vocal chords.</p><p>The point I am trying to make is that, upto what degradation level it is considered a copy, and beyond which it is not a copy and hence not infringed?</p><p>On the other hand, if hearing the song and recording it was "fair use", would it also be fair use if I play a copyrighted song on my computer and then capture the audio stream using a recorder?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , I am an AC , but I do have a very genuine question which I am hoping somebody with both technical and law knowledge can answer.If a good is degraded while being attempted to re-produce , does the original copyright still apply ? For example , I have seen live amateur musicians playing famous " copyrighted " songs where they tell before performance that they would change the lyrics a word or to two to avoid the " infringement " issue .
Because it is not the same thing , the copyright does not apply.I am sure that if I hear a tune playing in FM radio , and I record it from the radio , then even though it is a copy , I have not infringed anything .
Two possible reasons for this infringement waiver could be 1 ) because the audio quality is much degraded , or 2 ) this is fair use , I am just capturing what I am hearing , and my hearing was legal.If the degradation in quality is reason , then suppose if person A uses a DVD ripper that degrades the quality to 50 \ % ( say to fit a 8.5GB disk into a 4.7GB ) disk , but still good enough for viewing , is it still the same thing ?
Every damn bits are different , so how is this a " copy " ? If this quality degradation is not an issue , then even someone repeating a movie line would be copyright infringement since he has made a copy of a part of the movie audio ( though very poor in quality though ) using a reproduction machine that consists of human memory cells and human vocal chords.The point I am trying to make is that , upto what degradation level it is considered a copy , and beyond which it is not a copy and hence not infringed ? On the other hand , if hearing the song and recording it was " fair use " , would it also be fair use if I play a copyrighted song on my computer and then capture the audio stream using a recorder ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, I am an AC, but I do have a very genuine question which I am hoping somebody with both technical and law knowledge can answer.If a good is degraded while being attempted to re-produce, does the original copyright still apply?For example, I have seen live amateur musicians playing famous "copyrighted" songs where they tell before performance that they would change the lyrics a word or to two to avoid the "infringement" issue.
Because it is not the same thing, the copyright does not apply.I am sure that if I hear a tune playing in FM radio, and I record it from the radio, then even though it is a copy, I have not infringed anything.
Two possible reasons for this infringement waiver could be 1) because the audio quality is much degraded, or 2) this is fair use, I am just capturing what I am hearing, and my hearing was legal.If the degradation in quality is reason, then suppose if person A uses a DVD ripper that degrades the quality to 50\% (say to fit a 8.5GB disk into a 4.7GB) disk, but still good enough for viewing, is it still the same thing?
Every damn bits are different, so how is this a "copy"?If this quality degradation is not an issue, then even someone repeating a movie line would be copyright infringement since he has made a copy of a part of the movie audio (though very poor in quality though) using a reproduction machine that consists of human memory cells and human vocal chords.The point I am trying to make is that, upto what degradation level it is considered a copy, and beyond which it is not a copy and hence not infringed?On the other hand, if hearing the song and recording it was "fair use", would it also be fair use if I play a copyrighted song on my computer and then capture the audio stream using a recorder?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28417419</id>
	<title>Boycott the music industry</title>
	<author>cdn-programmer</author>
	<datestamp>1245611400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For what its worth, I'm boycotting them.</p><p>This is pretty easy for me anyways.  I own about 5 CD's.  I have never had a working CD player hooked up to my stereo.  Now I know I will never install one.</p><p>I have also decided I do not like the Chrysler and GM bail out.  As a Canadian I feel we are looking at decades of abuse by special interest groups with too much power.  Accordingly I will \_never\_ own a GM or Chrysler product again as long as I live.</p><p>Now you see - pollies think they can manipulate people.</p><p>However if we the people get mad enough then maybe they will start to learn.</p><p>Now I can assure people there are MANY alternatives.</p><p>1) buy from the musicians.  If they sign with a label, shun them.  Tell your friends.  Refuse to listen to any CD's produced by organized crime (RIAA?  Is that organized crime?  I know some artists think they are)</p><p>2) Don't drive a GM.  Drive an Audi or VW  (Diesel gets 60+ MPG).  Drive a Toyota.  Just say NO.</p><p>Criticize people who do buy these products.  Tell them they must like HUGE tax payer subsidies and high oil prices.</p><p>What we need to do is put people back to work.  I fail to see how propping up an industry which is as sick as our auto industry is going to keep people gainfully employed.  Just consider the SUV mileage figures.  While North America focused on the putting tons of steel on the road with pathetic mileage, Japan was bringing out hybrids.  Note also that North America consumes about 1/4 of the world's oil.  Yup.  The world produces about 83 million Barrels of oil per day (BOPD) and North America consumes over 20 million BOPD.  Its in the BP statistical review if anyone wants to look it up.</p><p>Funny, but strife inn the Auto Industry happened in 1973 as well.  Back then, Chrysler needed a bail out.  What did they learn?</p><p>When the oil embargo of the early 1970's hit, Japan was ready with high mileage cars.  Detroit looked stupid.</p><p>Deja Vue</p><p>My point is that if people, and especially young people, want change - then they are going to have to find ways to make it happen.  Young people in the 1960s forced change.  It looks like history is going to have to repeat itself.</p><p>A good place to start is for people to buy ONLY from the original artists.  They deserve the money anyways.  Next if commercial downloading services aren't properly compensating the artists, then perhaps we need a grass roots way to compete with them.  Its not reasonable for the artists to be expected for instance to set up servers.  However I am confident there are MANY in the slashdot crowd who are up to speed in the are of server admin.</p><p>As I see it, the RIAA might think they won this battle.  In doing so perhaps they lose the war.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For what its worth , I 'm boycotting them.This is pretty easy for me anyways .
I own about 5 CD 's .
I have never had a working CD player hooked up to my stereo .
Now I know I will never install one.I have also decided I do not like the Chrysler and GM bail out .
As a Canadian I feel we are looking at decades of abuse by special interest groups with too much power .
Accordingly I will \ _never \ _ own a GM or Chrysler product again as long as I live.Now you see - pollies think they can manipulate people.However if we the people get mad enough then maybe they will start to learn.Now I can assure people there are MANY alternatives.1 ) buy from the musicians .
If they sign with a label , shun them .
Tell your friends .
Refuse to listen to any CD 's produced by organized crime ( RIAA ?
Is that organized crime ?
I know some artists think they are ) 2 ) Do n't drive a GM .
Drive an Audi or VW ( Diesel gets 60 + MPG ) .
Drive a Toyota .
Just say NO.Criticize people who do buy these products .
Tell them they must like HUGE tax payer subsidies and high oil prices.What we need to do is put people back to work .
I fail to see how propping up an industry which is as sick as our auto industry is going to keep people gainfully employed .
Just consider the SUV mileage figures .
While North America focused on the putting tons of steel on the road with pathetic mileage , Japan was bringing out hybrids .
Note also that North America consumes about 1/4 of the world 's oil .
Yup. The world produces about 83 million Barrels of oil per day ( BOPD ) and North America consumes over 20 million BOPD .
Its in the BP statistical review if anyone wants to look it up.Funny , but strife inn the Auto Industry happened in 1973 as well .
Back then , Chrysler needed a bail out .
What did they learn ? When the oil embargo of the early 1970 's hit , Japan was ready with high mileage cars .
Detroit looked stupid.Deja VueMy point is that if people , and especially young people , want change - then they are going to have to find ways to make it happen .
Young people in the 1960s forced change .
It looks like history is going to have to repeat itself.A good place to start is for people to buy ONLY from the original artists .
They deserve the money anyways .
Next if commercial downloading services are n't properly compensating the artists , then perhaps we need a grass roots way to compete with them .
Its not reasonable for the artists to be expected for instance to set up servers .
However I am confident there are MANY in the slashdot crowd who are up to speed in the are of server admin.As I see it , the RIAA might think they won this battle .
In doing so perhaps they lose the war .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For what its worth, I'm boycotting them.This is pretty easy for me anyways.
I own about 5 CD's.
I have never had a working CD player hooked up to my stereo.
Now I know I will never install one.I have also decided I do not like the Chrysler and GM bail out.
As a Canadian I feel we are looking at decades of abuse by special interest groups with too much power.
Accordingly I will \_never\_ own a GM or Chrysler product again as long as I live.Now you see - pollies think they can manipulate people.However if we the people get mad enough then maybe they will start to learn.Now I can assure people there are MANY alternatives.1) buy from the musicians.
If they sign with a label, shun them.
Tell your friends.
Refuse to listen to any CD's produced by organized crime (RIAA?
Is that organized crime?
I know some artists think they are)2) Don't drive a GM.
Drive an Audi or VW  (Diesel gets 60+ MPG).
Drive a Toyota.
Just say NO.Criticize people who do buy these products.
Tell them they must like HUGE tax payer subsidies and high oil prices.What we need to do is put people back to work.
I fail to see how propping up an industry which is as sick as our auto industry is going to keep people gainfully employed.
Just consider the SUV mileage figures.
While North America focused on the putting tons of steel on the road with pathetic mileage, Japan was bringing out hybrids.
Note also that North America consumes about 1/4 of the world's oil.
Yup.  The world produces about 83 million Barrels of oil per day (BOPD) and North America consumes over 20 million BOPD.
Its in the BP statistical review if anyone wants to look it up.Funny, but strife inn the Auto Industry happened in 1973 as well.
Back then, Chrysler needed a bail out.
What did they learn?When the oil embargo of the early 1970's hit, Japan was ready with high mileage cars.
Detroit looked stupid.Deja VueMy point is that if people, and especially young people, want change - then they are going to have to find ways to make it happen.
Young people in the 1960s forced change.
It looks like history is going to have to repeat itself.A good place to start is for people to buy ONLY from the original artists.
They deserve the money anyways.
Next if commercial downloading services aren't properly compensating the artists, then perhaps we need a grass roots way to compete with them.
Its not reasonable for the artists to be expected for instance to set up servers.
However I am confident there are MANY in the slashdot crowd who are up to speed in the are of server admin.As I see it, the RIAA might think they won this battle.
In doing so perhaps they lose the war.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412653</id>
	<title>Re:Are the songs really worth that much?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245614820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After reading the list and seeing her awful taste, I think she should be fined 1.92 million USD twice, one time for uploading the songs, and one for listening to it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After reading the list and seeing her awful taste , I think she should be fined 1.92 million USD twice , one time for uploading the songs , and one for listening to it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After reading the list and seeing her awful taste, I think she should be fined 1.92 million USD twice, one time for uploading the songs, and one for listening to it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412179</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413043</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1245617760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hooray.  Someone with some much needed sanity.  People aren't executed in the modern world for petty theft.  Someone mod this guy up - hell, give him 50 points.  (Yeah, I know, the mod system is as broken as the legal system, lol)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hooray .
Someone with some much needed sanity .
People are n't executed in the modern world for petty theft .
Someone mod this guy up - hell , give him 50 points .
( Yeah , I know , the mod system is as broken as the legal system , lol )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hooray.
Someone with some much needed sanity.
People aren't executed in the modern world for petty theft.
Someone mod this guy up - hell, give him 50 points.
(Yeah, I know, the mod system is as broken as the legal system, lol)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413997</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1245582240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer, In the "real world", the case would not have been dismissed. It would've ended with a guilty verdict in small claims court.</i> </p><p>In the real world, <b>this</b> defendant settles out of court.</p><p>Copyrights are anchored in the federal constitution and statutes.</p><p>But - most importantly - file sharing is treated as an unlicensed wholesale distribution. That is why why you end up in the federal system.</p><p>You are talking real money here.</p><p>There is no such thing as a federal small claims court outside of "territorial" jurisdictions like Washington D.C.</p><p>Because the extent of the distribution is difficult to determine, statutory damages become an option.</p><p>That is a dangerous, dangerous thing for a defendant whose case is factually weak or who can be expected to perform poorly on the stand.</p><p>The defense has all but conceded that Thomas lied on the stand.</p><p> That she tampered with evidence.</p><p>Thomas is the iceberg.</p><p> The geek is the Titanic and it's time to man the boats.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer , In the " real world " , the case would not have been dismissed .
It would 've ended with a guilty verdict in small claims court .
In the real world , this defendant settles out of court.Copyrights are anchored in the federal constitution and statutes.But - most importantly - file sharing is treated as an unlicensed wholesale distribution .
That is why why you end up in the federal system.You are talking real money here.There is no such thing as a federal small claims court outside of " territorial " jurisdictions like Washington D.C.Because the extent of the distribution is difficult to determine , statutory damages become an option.That is a dangerous , dangerous thing for a defendant whose case is factually weak or who can be expected to perform poorly on the stand.The defense has all but conceded that Thomas lied on the stand .
That she tampered with evidence.Thomas is the iceberg .
The geek is the Titanic and it 's time to man the boats .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer, In the "real world", the case would not have been dismissed.
It would've ended with a guilty verdict in small claims court.
In the real world, this defendant settles out of court.Copyrights are anchored in the federal constitution and statutes.But - most importantly - file sharing is treated as an unlicensed wholesale distribution.
That is why why you end up in the federal system.You are talking real money here.There is no such thing as a federal small claims court outside of "territorial" jurisdictions like Washington D.C.Because the extent of the distribution is difficult to determine, statutory damages become an option.That is a dangerous, dangerous thing for a defendant whose case is factually weak or who can be expected to perform poorly on the stand.The defense has all but conceded that Thomas lied on the stand.
That she tampered with evidence.Thomas is the iceberg.
The geek is the Titanic and it's time to man the boats.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412765</id>
	<title>Re:Monday morning quarterbacking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245615840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been saying this for years, and you can see the result in my karma.</p><p>Funny, the trolls seem to have let you off fairly easily...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been saying this for years , and you can see the result in my karma.Funny , the trolls seem to have let you off fairly easily.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been saying this for years, and you can see the result in my karma.Funny, the trolls seem to have let you off fairly easily...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413487</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245578100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Doesn't work. I've been trying for longer than you do. All that happens is that they look at the declining sales and claim that you must be copying since you bought before and now you don't. It can't be that the crap ain't worth your money. It can't be that you refuse to buy DRMified content. It can't be that you are fed up with their behaviour. It must be that you're copying.</p><p>So clearly we need tougher DRM, more privacy invasion, and capital punishment for copyright offenders. THAT will teach you to buy again... erh... or something like that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't work .
I 've been trying for longer than you do .
All that happens is that they look at the declining sales and claim that you must be copying since you bought before and now you do n't .
It ca n't be that the crap ai n't worth your money .
It ca n't be that you refuse to buy DRMified content .
It ca n't be that you are fed up with their behaviour .
It must be that you 're copying.So clearly we need tougher DRM , more privacy invasion , and capital punishment for copyright offenders .
THAT will teach you to buy again... erh... or something like that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't work.
I've been trying for longer than you do.
All that happens is that they look at the declining sales and claim that you must be copying since you bought before and now you don't.
It can't be that the crap ain't worth your money.
It can't be that you refuse to buy DRMified content.
It can't be that you are fed up with their behaviour.
It must be that you're copying.So clearly we need tougher DRM, more privacy invasion, and capital punishment for copyright offenders.
THAT will teach you to buy again... erh... or something like that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413619</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA ....Amen</title>
	<author>Bob\_Who</author>
	<datestamp>1245579180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's right!  No more soup for you RIAA!! I sure as hell won't pay them if they're just gonna sue consumers instead.  What a great marketing plan for lawyers that want backstage passes....and lobby sex.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's right !
No more soup for you RIAA ! !
I sure as hell wo n't pay them if they 're just gon na sue consumers instead .
What a great marketing plan for lawyers that want backstage passes....and lobby sex .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's right!
No more soup for you RIAA!!
I sure as hell won't pay them if they're just gonna sue consumers instead.
What a great marketing plan for lawyers that want backstage passes....and lobby sex.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28418939</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245668280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm kinda confused about a few things from this, and other articles, about copyright infringement trials and what I also see elsewhere.  I've got a few questions:
<p>Why do I get that warning from the FBI on my DVDs talking about five years in jail, or whatever it is, for illegally copying the contents?  Why isn't that a purely civil matter?
</p><p>Why do you allow damages beyond actual damages?  I imagine the answer is probably based on the need to prevent future violations, but this seems the wrong way to do this to me, as well as unfair, especially if the FBI is also after my ass for a criminal conviction.  You've expanded civil litigation beyond what it was originally designed for, it seems to me.
</p><p>Juries for civil trials????? You gotta be kidding me.  That's about the dumbest thing anyone's ever done in a legal context.  My dad was an expert witness for many years, and I've even worked where I was required to testify in a civil trial, where the judge was simply brilliant, IMO.</p><p>
Obviously I'm not an American, although I do admire many things about your constitution.  (I'm Canadian, but have lived overseas for years, and I don't know if any of my objections also apply to Canadian, or other, civil regimes.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm kinda confused about a few things from this , and other articles , about copyright infringement trials and what I also see elsewhere .
I 've got a few questions : Why do I get that warning from the FBI on my DVDs talking about five years in jail , or whatever it is , for illegally copying the contents ?
Why is n't that a purely civil matter ?
Why do you allow damages beyond actual damages ?
I imagine the answer is probably based on the need to prevent future violations , but this seems the wrong way to do this to me , as well as unfair , especially if the FBI is also after my ass for a criminal conviction .
You 've expanded civil litigation beyond what it was originally designed for , it seems to me .
Juries for civil trials ? ? ? ? ?
You got ta be kidding me .
That 's about the dumbest thing anyone 's ever done in a legal context .
My dad was an expert witness for many years , and I 've even worked where I was required to testify in a civil trial , where the judge was simply brilliant , IMO .
Obviously I 'm not an American , although I do admire many things about your constitution .
( I 'm Canadian , but have lived overseas for years , and I do n't know if any of my objections also apply to Canadian , or other , civil regimes .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm kinda confused about a few things from this, and other articles, about copyright infringement trials and what I also see elsewhere.
I've got a few questions:
Why do I get that warning from the FBI on my DVDs talking about five years in jail, or whatever it is, for illegally copying the contents?
Why isn't that a purely civil matter?
Why do you allow damages beyond actual damages?
I imagine the answer is probably based on the need to prevent future violations, but this seems the wrong way to do this to me, as well as unfair, especially if the FBI is also after my ass for a criminal conviction.
You've expanded civil litigation beyond what it was originally designed for, it seems to me.
Juries for civil trials?????
You gotta be kidding me.
That's about the dumbest thing anyone's ever done in a legal context.
My dad was an expert witness for many years, and I've even worked where I was required to testify in a civil trial, where the judge was simply brilliant, IMO.
Obviously I'm not an American, although I do admire many things about your constitution.
(I'm Canadian, but have lived overseas for years, and I don't know if any of my objections also apply to Canadian, or other, civil regimes.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414059</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413463</id>
	<title>Re:I think you have it backwards</title>
	<author>Presto Vivace</author>
	<datestamp>1245577980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had the same reaction. I think the size of the fine is monstrous. But it is all too real. A real court reached that verdict and the fine stands. It should not, but it does.

But the RIAA has pyrrhic victory. They have delegitimized themselves in the eyes of the general public.

<a href="http://technoflak.blogspot.com/2008/04/blowing-smoke-on-net-neutrality.html" title="blogspot.com">As I have said before,</a> [blogspot.com] the entertainment industry is going about this all wrong.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had the same reaction .
I think the size of the fine is monstrous .
But it is all too real .
A real court reached that verdict and the fine stands .
It should not , but it does .
But the RIAA has pyrrhic victory .
They have delegitimized themselves in the eyes of the general public .
As I have said before , [ blogspot.com ] the entertainment industry is going about this all wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had the same reaction.
I think the size of the fine is monstrous.
But it is all too real.
A real court reached that verdict and the fine stands.
It should not, but it does.
But the RIAA has pyrrhic victory.
They have delegitimized themselves in the eyes of the general public.
As I have said before, [blogspot.com] the entertainment industry is going about this all wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412073</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414327</id>
	<title>You Bet Your Life</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1245585120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>If you're ever on a jury in the United States, the legal system will wrongly try to convince you that they're either guilty or not guilty, but there is a third way: nullification or veto powers.</i> </p><p>God.</p><p>This is dumb.</p><p>In a civil trial the jury makes a simple finding of fact for the plaintiff or defendant.</p><p>The entire process of a modern jury trial is intended to strip a case of its emotion. It doesn't always work that way, of course.</p><p> But <i>Hearts and Flowers</i> it ain't.</p><p>The juror will be typically be middle aged, middle class, small-C conservative.</p><p> In the federal system, the panel will more or less be a creation of the judge - and a judge almost by definition is a middle aged small-C conservative. He is looking for men and women who have come to do a job and not to play the system.</p><p>The size of the federal jury pool and the element of randomness in its selection does not favor the lone nullifier.</p><p> He probably won't get a case he gives a damn about. He almost certainly won't give a damn about <b>you.</b> </p><p>Nullification - of course - has always cut both ways.</p><p>The black American through almost the whole of our history could tell you that much.</p><p>But I have always been a little bit puzzled about why the geek thinks a jury will be any way inclined to throw a lifeline out to <b>him.</b> </p><p>The geek builds castles in the air. He whines. He wheedles. He lies like a rug. He could have settled this business quickly and cheaply and saved everyone a lot of trouble.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're ever on a jury in the United States , the legal system will wrongly try to convince you that they 're either guilty or not guilty , but there is a third way : nullification or veto powers .
God.This is dumb.In a civil trial the jury makes a simple finding of fact for the plaintiff or defendant.The entire process of a modern jury trial is intended to strip a case of its emotion .
It does n't always work that way , of course .
But Hearts and Flowers it ai n't.The juror will be typically be middle aged , middle class , small-C conservative .
In the federal system , the panel will more or less be a creation of the judge - and a judge almost by definition is a middle aged small-C conservative .
He is looking for men and women who have come to do a job and not to play the system.The size of the federal jury pool and the element of randomness in its selection does not favor the lone nullifier .
He probably wo n't get a case he gives a damn about .
He almost certainly wo n't give a damn about you .
Nullification - of course - has always cut both ways.The black American through almost the whole of our history could tell you that much.But I have always been a little bit puzzled about why the geek thinks a jury will be any way inclined to throw a lifeline out to him .
The geek builds castles in the air .
He whines .
He wheedles .
He lies like a rug .
He could have settled this business quickly and cheaply and saved everyone a lot of trouble .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're ever on a jury in the United States, the legal system will wrongly try to convince you that they're either guilty or not guilty, but there is a third way: nullification or veto powers.
God.This is dumb.In a civil trial the jury makes a simple finding of fact for the plaintiff or defendant.The entire process of a modern jury trial is intended to strip a case of its emotion.
It doesn't always work that way, of course.
But Hearts and Flowers it ain't.The juror will be typically be middle aged, middle class, small-C conservative.
In the federal system, the panel will more or less be a creation of the judge - and a judge almost by definition is a middle aged small-C conservative.
He is looking for men and women who have come to do a job and not to play the system.The size of the federal jury pool and the element of randomness in its selection does not favor the lone nullifier.
He probably won't get a case he gives a damn about.
He almost certainly won't give a damn about you.
Nullification - of course - has always cut both ways.The black American through almost the whole of our history could tell you that much.But I have always been a little bit puzzled about why the geek thinks a jury will be any way inclined to throw a lifeline out to him.
The geek builds castles in the air.
He whines.
He wheedles.
He lies like a rug.
He could have settled this business quickly and cheaply and saved everyone a lot of trouble.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412835</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245616320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Personally, I have not purchased a CD in almost 10 years, and I will not purchase another CD from an RIAA label EVER. That is the only way we can make our voices heard... DO NOT BUY FROM THEM.</p></div><p>... to which the RIAA assumes they lost the sale due to piracy, not by any other means. These people are not rational; boycotts do not work with them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally , I have not purchased a CD in almost 10 years , and I will not purchase another CD from an RIAA label EVER .
That is the only way we can make our voices heard... DO NOT BUY FROM THEM.... to which the RIAA assumes they lost the sale due to piracy , not by any other means .
These people are not rational ; boycotts do not work with them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally, I have not purchased a CD in almost 10 years, and I will not purchase another CD from an RIAA label EVER.
That is the only way we can make our voices heard... DO NOT BUY FROM THEM.... to which the RIAA assumes they lost the sale due to piracy, not by any other means.
These people are not rational; boycotts do not work with them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412081</id>
	<title>Reverse Precedents</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245610560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What's stopping EFF or other entities like this 'country lawyer' to find somebody infringing on someone who's willing to participate and try taking this case to court and see how much damages the court awards. or even better, set up the exact circumstance as per the case, but use different music, ie performed by artists who support the cause.

Are there any law stopping people defendant/plaintiff conspiring to go to court to make precedents?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's stopping EFF or other entities like this 'country lawyer ' to find somebody infringing on someone who 's willing to participate and try taking this case to court and see how much damages the court awards .
or even better , set up the exact circumstance as per the case , but use different music , ie performed by artists who support the cause .
Are there any law stopping people defendant/plaintiff conspiring to go to court to make precedents ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's stopping EFF or other entities like this 'country lawyer' to find somebody infringing on someone who's willing to participate and try taking this case to court and see how much damages the court awards.
or even better, set up the exact circumstance as per the case, but use different music, ie performed by artists who support the cause.
Are there any law stopping people defendant/plaintiff conspiring to go to court to make precedents?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414161</id>
	<title>Re:Monday morning quarterbacking</title>
	<author>eison</author>
	<datestamp>1245583680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google "AccurateRip".  Exact Audio Copy plugin that compares checksums of your rips against other rip checksums so that you can re-rip if you have an error.<br>CD audio is digital, different rips *should* be bit for bit identical, if not there was an error.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google " AccurateRip " .
Exact Audio Copy plugin that compares checksums of your rips against other rip checksums so that you can re-rip if you have an error.CD audio is digital , different rips * should * be bit for bit identical , if not there was an error .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google "AccurateRip".
Exact Audio Copy plugin that compares checksums of your rips against other rip checksums so that you can re-rip if you have an error.CD audio is digital, different rips *should* be bit for bit identical, if not there was an error.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412703</id>
	<title>Dred Scott</title>
	<author>bzipitidoo</author>
	<datestamp>1245615300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Outcomes like this $1.92 million in damages for nothing hurt and weaken our system.  Whatever a person's stand on copyright and Thomas' guilt, I'm seeing agreement that the amount is excessive and unfair.  It reinforces cynical ideas that the whole system is corrupt, shot full of bribery and payoffs.  It's also, as everyone realizes, complete bull.  The fine is uncollectable.  She'll never have the money.  She's stuck now for years more litigation, trying to appeal all this.  If this fine is ultimately upheld or she feels that the agonies of further fighting are worse than giving up, she is stuck having her wages garnished for the rest of her life, or going through bankruptcy, or maybe fleeing to another nation and asking for asylum.

</p><p>Dred Scott was another unjust decision.  That one lead to Civil War.  Other issues have lead to civil unrest.  The courts and lawmakers should think about such things when they do their work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Outcomes like this $ 1.92 million in damages for nothing hurt and weaken our system .
Whatever a person 's stand on copyright and Thomas ' guilt , I 'm seeing agreement that the amount is excessive and unfair .
It reinforces cynical ideas that the whole system is corrupt , shot full of bribery and payoffs .
It 's also , as everyone realizes , complete bull .
The fine is uncollectable .
She 'll never have the money .
She 's stuck now for years more litigation , trying to appeal all this .
If this fine is ultimately upheld or she feels that the agonies of further fighting are worse than giving up , she is stuck having her wages garnished for the rest of her life , or going through bankruptcy , or maybe fleeing to another nation and asking for asylum .
Dred Scott was another unjust decision .
That one lead to Civil War .
Other issues have lead to civil unrest .
The courts and lawmakers should think about such things when they do their work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Outcomes like this $1.92 million in damages for nothing hurt and weaken our system.
Whatever a person's stand on copyright and Thomas' guilt, I'm seeing agreement that the amount is excessive and unfair.
It reinforces cynical ideas that the whole system is corrupt, shot full of bribery and payoffs.
It's also, as everyone realizes, complete bull.
The fine is uncollectable.
She'll never have the money.
She's stuck now for years more litigation, trying to appeal all this.
If this fine is ultimately upheld or she feels that the agonies of further fighting are worse than giving up, she is stuck having her wages garnished for the rest of her life, or going through bankruptcy, or maybe fleeing to another nation and asking for asylum.
Dred Scott was another unjust decision.
That one lead to Civil War.
Other issues have lead to civil unrest.
The courts and lawmakers should think about such things when they do their work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28415525</id>
	<title>Re:If you're on a jury for cases like this, NULLIF</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1245596760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We at Slashdot don't poke fun at lawyers for being idiots, we poke fun at them for being unethical, corrupt scumbags who'll do anything so long as they get paid for it (with NYCL being a rare exception). And dismissing juries because they know too much about the law fits *precisely* within that conception.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We at Slashdot do n't poke fun at lawyers for being idiots , we poke fun at them for being unethical , corrupt scumbags who 'll do anything so long as they get paid for it ( with NYCL being a rare exception ) .
And dismissing juries because they know too much about the law fits * precisely * within that conception .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We at Slashdot don't poke fun at lawyers for being idiots, we poke fun at them for being unethical, corrupt scumbags who'll do anything so long as they get paid for it (with NYCL being a rare exception).
And dismissing juries because they know too much about the law fits *precisely* within that conception.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413615</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412559</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense</title>
	<author>jedidiah</author>
	<datestamp>1245613800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've started to wonder what the real value of "Jamie's playlist" really is.</p><p>If she would have had the option of "buying these works outright" what would<br>their appraised value be based on actual current revenue? What might the<br>asking price for those works be when compared to something like commercial<br>real estate?</p><p>I suspect that the RIAA made out like bandits and they got a payday for these<br>works that dwarfs their actually real value by far.</p><p>Really. How many copies of "Pour Some Sugar On Me" were moved in 2004 or even<br>today? This could be relevant Album sales, singles sales or tracks on iTunes.<br>This is information that seems to be sorely lacking from this discussion.</p><p>What is the actual value of a 25 year old Journey song?</p><p>How does this jury award compare to the actual annual revenue recieved from these works?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've started to wonder what the real value of " Jamie 's playlist " really is.If she would have had the option of " buying these works outright " what wouldtheir appraised value be based on actual current revenue ?
What might theasking price for those works be when compared to something like commercialreal estate ? I suspect that the RIAA made out like bandits and they got a payday for theseworks that dwarfs their actually real value by far.Really .
How many copies of " Pour Some Sugar On Me " were moved in 2004 or eventoday ?
This could be relevant Album sales , singles sales or tracks on iTunes.This is information that seems to be sorely lacking from this discussion.What is the actual value of a 25 year old Journey song ? How does this jury award compare to the actual annual revenue recieved from these works ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've started to wonder what the real value of "Jamie's playlist" really is.If she would have had the option of "buying these works outright" what wouldtheir appraised value be based on actual current revenue?
What might theasking price for those works be when compared to something like commercialreal estate?I suspect that the RIAA made out like bandits and they got a payday for theseworks that dwarfs their actually real value by far.Really.
How many copies of "Pour Some Sugar On Me" were moved in 2004 or eventoday?
This could be relevant Album sales, singles sales or tracks on iTunes.This is information that seems to be sorely lacking from this discussion.What is the actual value of a 25 year old Journey song?How does this jury award compare to the actual annual revenue recieved from these works?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412037</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413299</id>
	<title>Re:Should have?</title>
	<author>Darkness404</author>
	<datestamp>1245576720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In relationship to actual damages is the key part. How do you figure a song is worth $80,000? What, do you go on iTunes and buy songs for that much? No, the value of a song is at most $1.29 because that is the highest priced digital song available (and if you use Amazon its still $.99). This is as stupid as saying that you lost $300 an hour when you were sick because occasionally the boss has been known to give bonuses, never mind the fact that no bonuses were given out when you were sick and your normal wage is $10 an hour and even bonuses are usually $200 a piece. The RIAA effectively committed fraud.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In relationship to actual damages is the key part .
How do you figure a song is worth $ 80,000 ?
What , do you go on iTunes and buy songs for that much ?
No , the value of a song is at most $ 1.29 because that is the highest priced digital song available ( and if you use Amazon its still $ .99 ) .
This is as stupid as saying that you lost $ 300 an hour when you were sick because occasionally the boss has been known to give bonuses , never mind the fact that no bonuses were given out when you were sick and your normal wage is $ 10 an hour and even bonuses are usually $ 200 a piece .
The RIAA effectively committed fraud .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In relationship to actual damages is the key part.
How do you figure a song is worth $80,000?
What, do you go on iTunes and buy songs for that much?
No, the value of a song is at most $1.29 because that is the highest priced digital song available (and if you use Amazon its still $.99).
This is as stupid as saying that you lost $300 an hour when you were sick because occasionally the boss has been known to give bonuses, never mind the fact that no bonuses were given out when you were sick and your normal wage is $10 an hour and even bonuses are usually $200 a piece.
The RIAA effectively committed fraud.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412109</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412699</id>
	<title>how to fix the system?</title>
	<author>bugi</author>
	<datestamp>1245615300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If we take as a given that this farce got as far as it has because the system is broken, then we must consider how to fix the system.</p><p>So, how can this system be fixed, and what can I personally do to help?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If we take as a given that this farce got as far as it has because the system is broken , then we must consider how to fix the system.So , how can this system be fixed , and what can I personally do to help ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we take as a given that this farce got as far as it has because the system is broken, then we must consider how to fix the system.So, how can this system be fixed, and what can I personally do to help?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412445</id>
	<title>Re:I think you have it backwards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245612840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Your fantasy-land in which intellectual property has no value, and clearly guilty people have the cases against them dismissed... that's the imaginary one.</p></div><p>True. But it's not an unachievable one. Give the politics time to catch up.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your fantasy-land in which intellectual property has no value , and clearly guilty people have the cases against them dismissed... that 's the imaginary one.True .
But it 's not an unachievable one .
Give the politics time to catch up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your fantasy-land in which intellectual property has no value, and clearly guilty people have the cases against them dismissed... that's the imaginary one.True.
But it's not an unachievable one.
Give the politics time to catch up.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412073</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412393</id>
	<title>Monday morning quarterbacking</title>
	<author>Grond</author>
	<datestamp>1245612540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The blog post ignores the fact that a trial is a dynamic process.  Had he made the arguments he lists, then RIAA lawyers would quite likely have countered them with appropriate arguments and evidence.  For example:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Liability-Reproduction right<br>Plaintiffs failed to introduce an iota of evidence that Jammie Thomas-Rasset had made a single copy using Kazaa.<br>Result: directed verdict on reproduction right.</p></div><p>If he made that argument at trial, the RIAA would almost certainly have introduced evidence that bit-for-bit identical copies of the songs in question are available on Kazaa, that such an identical copy is unlikely to have occurred if she ripped the song herself, and that she didn't own the albums in question.  Circumstantial evidence, perhaps, but probably enough to get the issue to the jury instead of a directed verdict.</p><p>Some of his statements are questionable as a matter of law:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The jury should have been instructed that a "work" is an album, and that multiple mp3's from one album constitutes a single "work".</p></div><p>There is not particularly strong precedent on this issue.  Some courts have held that this is the case, it's true, but as best I can find they were only district courts and not in the same circuit as Minnesota (where the Thomas case was held), further diminishing their already merely persuasive authority.  I do not believe there is any mandatory authority on this point for the District of Minnesota, which means that the RIAA lawyers may well have been successful in persuading the judge to adopt a one song, one work basis for calculating statutory damages.</p><p>Some of his statements sound impressive but wouldn't have made a difference:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The jury could have been instructed that no statutory damages could be awarded as to any work whose copyright registration effective date was subsequent to the date of defendant's commencement of use of Kazaa</p></div><p>A quick check at the US Copyright Registry of a random selection of the songs that Ms. Thomas infringed shows that they were  registered many years ago, in some cases over a decade ago, and easily predated any infringement by Ms. Thomas.</p><p>Ultimately, this is about drumming up interest in his law firm and ad revenue from his blog, which Slashdot happily hands him about once a week or so.  It also does a lot to poison the potential jury pool for future copyright litigation, which is of great interest to a lawyer who works those kinds of cases on the side of the defense.  One should take everything Mr. Beckerman says about these issues with a grain of salt appropriate to the magnitude of his self-interest.</p><p>In short, this is nothing but Monday morning quarterbacking, and not particularly good quarterbacking at that.  It should also tell one something that most of his legal arguments are not backed up by citations to relevant authorities.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The blog post ignores the fact that a trial is a dynamic process .
Had he made the arguments he lists , then RIAA lawyers would quite likely have countered them with appropriate arguments and evidence .
For example : Liability-Reproduction rightPlaintiffs failed to introduce an iota of evidence that Jammie Thomas-Rasset had made a single copy using Kazaa.Result : directed verdict on reproduction right.If he made that argument at trial , the RIAA would almost certainly have introduced evidence that bit-for-bit identical copies of the songs in question are available on Kazaa , that such an identical copy is unlikely to have occurred if she ripped the song herself , and that she did n't own the albums in question .
Circumstantial evidence , perhaps , but probably enough to get the issue to the jury instead of a directed verdict.Some of his statements are questionable as a matter of law : The jury should have been instructed that a " work " is an album , and that multiple mp3 's from one album constitutes a single " work " .There is not particularly strong precedent on this issue .
Some courts have held that this is the case , it 's true , but as best I can find they were only district courts and not in the same circuit as Minnesota ( where the Thomas case was held ) , further diminishing their already merely persuasive authority .
I do not believe there is any mandatory authority on this point for the District of Minnesota , which means that the RIAA lawyers may well have been successful in persuading the judge to adopt a one song , one work basis for calculating statutory damages.Some of his statements sound impressive but would n't have made a difference : The jury could have been instructed that no statutory damages could be awarded as to any work whose copyright registration effective date was subsequent to the date of defendant 's commencement of use of KazaaA quick check at the US Copyright Registry of a random selection of the songs that Ms. Thomas infringed shows that they were registered many years ago , in some cases over a decade ago , and easily predated any infringement by Ms. Thomas.Ultimately , this is about drumming up interest in his law firm and ad revenue from his blog , which Slashdot happily hands him about once a week or so .
It also does a lot to poison the potential jury pool for future copyright litigation , which is of great interest to a lawyer who works those kinds of cases on the side of the defense .
One should take everything Mr. Beckerman says about these issues with a grain of salt appropriate to the magnitude of his self-interest.In short , this is nothing but Monday morning quarterbacking , and not particularly good quarterbacking at that .
It should also tell one something that most of his legal arguments are not backed up by citations to relevant authorities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The blog post ignores the fact that a trial is a dynamic process.
Had he made the arguments he lists, then RIAA lawyers would quite likely have countered them with appropriate arguments and evidence.
For example:Liability-Reproduction rightPlaintiffs failed to introduce an iota of evidence that Jammie Thomas-Rasset had made a single copy using Kazaa.Result: directed verdict on reproduction right.If he made that argument at trial, the RIAA would almost certainly have introduced evidence that bit-for-bit identical copies of the songs in question are available on Kazaa, that such an identical copy is unlikely to have occurred if she ripped the song herself, and that she didn't own the albums in question.
Circumstantial evidence, perhaps, but probably enough to get the issue to the jury instead of a directed verdict.Some of his statements are questionable as a matter of law:The jury should have been instructed that a "work" is an album, and that multiple mp3's from one album constitutes a single "work".There is not particularly strong precedent on this issue.
Some courts have held that this is the case, it's true, but as best I can find they were only district courts and not in the same circuit as Minnesota (where the Thomas case was held), further diminishing their already merely persuasive authority.
I do not believe there is any mandatory authority on this point for the District of Minnesota, which means that the RIAA lawyers may well have been successful in persuading the judge to adopt a one song, one work basis for calculating statutory damages.Some of his statements sound impressive but wouldn't have made a difference:The jury could have been instructed that no statutory damages could be awarded as to any work whose copyright registration effective date was subsequent to the date of defendant's commencement of use of KazaaA quick check at the US Copyright Registry of a random selection of the songs that Ms. Thomas infringed shows that they were  registered many years ago, in some cases over a decade ago, and easily predated any infringement by Ms. Thomas.Ultimately, this is about drumming up interest in his law firm and ad revenue from his blog, which Slashdot happily hands him about once a week or so.
It also does a lot to poison the potential jury pool for future copyright litigation, which is of great interest to a lawyer who works those kinds of cases on the side of the defense.
One should take everything Mr. Beckerman says about these issues with a grain of salt appropriate to the magnitude of his self-interest.In short, this is nothing but Monday morning quarterbacking, and not particularly good quarterbacking at that.
It should also tell one something that most of his legal arguments are not backed up by citations to relevant authorities.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28415697</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA  Amen Brother</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245598200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Amen Brother!  The ongoing obscenity of our so called 'entertainment industry', and the way that our government is prostituting itself to these scumbags is worse than corruption and speaks of a government that has lost its way entirely.  It is no longer a government of our people, but a cabal of criminals feeding at the public trough and at numerous private troughs as well.  Do not buy!  Boycott!  All of them.  What does it take to bring justice to the American people?  We in our house really do not like music at all, and despise the recent movie offerings, especially those comic book 'superheeeroes' crap that some try to call science fiction when it clearly is not. Comic book characters are not of any cultural or redeeming social value.  Sounds like the legal definition of porn doesn't it?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Maybe that lady and her family will become like an American 'taliban'.  Maybe they will never pay a cent of that illegal 'judgement', but rather slyly 'download' all kinds of things from the anonymity of drive by hotspots and upload them where all the legaleeez in 'licence documents' say they should not go...like trade secrets to Cuba....chem formulae to Somalia.... noook science to that nut Kim Chunk Ill.  Hey if the people no longer have a stake in their government, then that government no longer has any stake in the people.  Hell maybe they will really start to be criminals and go into the dumps and tear all the labels off of old pillows and cushions and mattresses......</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Amen Brother !
The ongoing obscenity of our so called 'entertainment industry ' , and the way that our government is prostituting itself to these scumbags is worse than corruption and speaks of a government that has lost its way entirely .
It is no longer a government of our people , but a cabal of criminals feeding at the public trough and at numerous private troughs as well .
Do not buy !
Boycott ! All of them .
What does it take to bring justice to the American people ?
We in our house really do not like music at all , and despise the recent movie offerings , especially those comic book 'superheeeroes ' crap that some try to call science fiction when it clearly is not .
Comic book characters are not of any cultural or redeeming social value .
Sounds like the legal definition of porn does n't it ?
    Maybe that lady and her family will become like an American 'taliban' .
Maybe they will never pay a cent of that illegal 'judgement ' , but rather slyly 'download ' all kinds of things from the anonymity of drive by hotspots and upload them where all the legaleeez in 'licence documents ' say they should not go...like trade secrets to Cuba....chem formulae to Somalia.... noook science to that nut Kim Chunk Ill. Hey if the people no longer have a stake in their government , then that government no longer has any stake in the people .
Hell maybe they will really start to be criminals and go into the dumps and tear all the labels off of old pillows and cushions and mattresses..... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Amen Brother!
The ongoing obscenity of our so called 'entertainment industry', and the way that our government is prostituting itself to these scumbags is worse than corruption and speaks of a government that has lost its way entirely.
It is no longer a government of our people, but a cabal of criminals feeding at the public trough and at numerous private troughs as well.
Do not buy!
Boycott!  All of them.
What does it take to bring justice to the American people?
We in our house really do not like music at all, and despise the recent movie offerings, especially those comic book 'superheeeroes' crap that some try to call science fiction when it clearly is not.
Comic book characters are not of any cultural or redeeming social value.
Sounds like the legal definition of porn doesn't it?
    Maybe that lady and her family will become like an American 'taliban'.
Maybe they will never pay a cent of that illegal 'judgement', but rather slyly 'download' all kinds of things from the anonymity of drive by hotspots and upload them where all the legaleeez in 'licence documents' say they should not go...like trade secrets to Cuba....chem formulae to Somalia.... noook science to that nut Kim Chunk Ill.  Hey if the people no longer have a stake in their government, then that government no longer has any stake in the people.
Hell maybe they will really start to be criminals and go into the dumps and tear all the labels off of old pillows and cushions and mattresses......</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28420395</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA</title>
	<author>Acaeris</author>
	<datestamp>1245679080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A boycott seems like a great idea in principle, but the big 4 have enough support from other forms of revenue that they can shrug off those who do boycott and lump you with the pirates.<br> <br>

Want to boycott RIAA music? Ok, that means never buying an RIAA CD, never playing a video game containing RIAA music, never watching a TV show that contains RIAA music, never listen to a radio station, never watching a film that contains RIAA music. In some countries it also means, never buying writeable media of various kinds, never paying for a taxi that has the radio turned on and possibly soon, not using the internet.<br> <br>

They've got their fingers in so many pies it is no longer feasible for most to just take the boycott route. Probably THE most effective thing we could actually do is organise a protest march passed the head offices of the big four stating that we will not support their abuse of the legal system, DRM and their treatment of customers or their dying business model. It's certainly not going to come from people sitting on their backsides hoping the next president will be that big of a change.<br> <br>

* This message was sent from the UK and I personally feel Obama is a good choice for you, even if he's not quite what everyone was dreaming of.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A boycott seems like a great idea in principle , but the big 4 have enough support from other forms of revenue that they can shrug off those who do boycott and lump you with the pirates .
Want to boycott RIAA music ?
Ok , that means never buying an RIAA CD , never playing a video game containing RIAA music , never watching a TV show that contains RIAA music , never listen to a radio station , never watching a film that contains RIAA music .
In some countries it also means , never buying writeable media of various kinds , never paying for a taxi that has the radio turned on and possibly soon , not using the internet .
They 've got their fingers in so many pies it is no longer feasible for most to just take the boycott route .
Probably THE most effective thing we could actually do is organise a protest march passed the head offices of the big four stating that we will not support their abuse of the legal system , DRM and their treatment of customers or their dying business model .
It 's certainly not going to come from people sitting on their backsides hoping the next president will be that big of a change .
* This message was sent from the UK and I personally feel Obama is a good choice for you , even if he 's not quite what everyone was dreaming of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A boycott seems like a great idea in principle, but the big 4 have enough support from other forms of revenue that they can shrug off those who do boycott and lump you with the pirates.
Want to boycott RIAA music?
Ok, that means never buying an RIAA CD, never playing a video game containing RIAA music, never watching a TV show that contains RIAA music, never listen to a radio station, never watching a film that contains RIAA music.
In some countries it also means, never buying writeable media of various kinds, never paying for a taxi that has the radio turned on and possibly soon, not using the internet.
They've got their fingers in so many pies it is no longer feasible for most to just take the boycott route.
Probably THE most effective thing we could actually do is organise a protest march passed the head offices of the big four stating that we will not support their abuse of the legal system, DRM and their treatment of customers or their dying business model.
It's certainly not going to come from people sitting on their backsides hoping the next president will be that big of a change.
* This message was sent from the UK and I personally feel Obama is a good choice for you, even if he's not quite what everyone was dreaming of.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412297</id>
	<title>"Work" is an Album</title>
	<author>WizardOfFoo</author>
	<datestamp>1245612060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>As much as I would like to hold that infringing multiple songs off an album constitutes a single infringement, I don't see how that can be reconciled with the fact that each song may have different lyricists, composers, singers, etc - each of which have their own part of the bundle of sticks that constitute the copyrights in a song (god save you if it is a sound recording). Even if one were to take that the band (and by extension the RIAA) has assignments of copyright from all the various people who have a stick in the combined work, that still leaves the problem of multiple copyrights, works, and infringements.
<p>
At least from a damages perspective though, we should treat all of those infringements as having a net total worth of that song's fraction of the album's value. Everyone might not be particularly happy with their fraction of a sale but in theory everyone agreed to the contracts that setup the whole divvying scheme (bargaining power is a discussion for another day).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As much as I would like to hold that infringing multiple songs off an album constitutes a single infringement , I do n't see how that can be reconciled with the fact that each song may have different lyricists , composers , singers , etc - each of which have their own part of the bundle of sticks that constitute the copyrights in a song ( god save you if it is a sound recording ) .
Even if one were to take that the band ( and by extension the RIAA ) has assignments of copyright from all the various people who have a stick in the combined work , that still leaves the problem of multiple copyrights , works , and infringements .
At least from a damages perspective though , we should treat all of those infringements as having a net total worth of that song 's fraction of the album 's value .
Everyone might not be particularly happy with their fraction of a sale but in theory everyone agreed to the contracts that setup the whole divvying scheme ( bargaining power is a discussion for another day ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As much as I would like to hold that infringing multiple songs off an album constitutes a single infringement, I don't see how that can be reconciled with the fact that each song may have different lyricists, composers, singers, etc - each of which have their own part of the bundle of sticks that constitute the copyrights in a song (god save you if it is a sound recording).
Even if one were to take that the band (and by extension the RIAA) has assignments of copyright from all the various people who have a stick in the combined work, that still leaves the problem of multiple copyrights, works, and infringements.
At least from a damages perspective though, we should treat all of those infringements as having a net total worth of that song's fraction of the album's value.
Everyone might not be particularly happy with their fraction of a sale but in theory everyone agreed to the contracts that setup the whole divvying scheme (bargaining power is a discussion for another day).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412025</id>
	<title>That's odd</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245610140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my parallel universe, the trial would have ended when the Kool-Aid man came running through the wall and yelled "OH YEAH!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my parallel universe , the trial would have ended when the Kool-Aid man came running through the wall and yelled " OH YEAH !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my parallel universe, the trial would have ended when the Kool-Aid man came running through the wall and yelled "OH YEAH!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412511</id>
	<title>Re:Slashdot Tag Racism</title>
	<author>whiledo</author>
	<datestamp>1245613320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I take it you've never read many comments with score &lt; 0.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I take it you 've never read many comments with score</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I take it you've never read many comments with score </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412285</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412077</id>
	<title>NYCL</title>
	<author>arizwebfoot</author>
	<datestamp>1245610560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks for the post, we here at<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. don't always get to see the inside workings of what should have, could have, been the logical outcome.</p><p>I'm going to get modded down for this, but I don't care <b>the RIAA is nothing better than being served up as crow bait</b></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for the post , we here at / .
do n't always get to see the inside workings of what should have , could have , been the logical outcome.I 'm going to get modded down for this , but I do n't care the RIAA is nothing better than being served up as crow bait</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for the post, we here at /.
don't always get to see the inside workings of what should have, could have, been the logical outcome.I'm going to get modded down for this, but I don't care the RIAA is nothing better than being served up as crow bait</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28416525</id>
	<title>Re:Advertise</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245603960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You call what the RIAA puts out on television effective advertising?</p><p>Parents know their kids download, do you think they're willingly going to let the RIAA tell them that their kids are evil? Kids know their friends aren't evil because their friends don't go around doing "other" evil things.</p><p>Also, I think it at least logically registers that nobody feels a song to be equivalent in value to a $20,000+ car.</p><p>I'd call the RIAA's advertising downright retarded, but that would be quite an insult to my mentally handicapped friends. The best sort of advertising you can do is talk to people yourself and inform them about what's happening.</p><p>You have the power. Ray has quite a bit of power to do so because a lot of people care what he has to say. "Just a guy" doesn't matter. It might be a bit slower to do it yourself, but look at it this way: Any movement toward having a more educated populace is a positive one. Whether or not you talk is fairly irrelevant, all you can do is speed up the process.</p><p>Why don't you want to speed up the process?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You call what the RIAA puts out on television effective advertising ? Parents know their kids download , do you think they 're willingly going to let the RIAA tell them that their kids are evil ?
Kids know their friends are n't evil because their friends do n't go around doing " other " evil things.Also , I think it at least logically registers that nobody feels a song to be equivalent in value to a $ 20,000 + car.I 'd call the RIAA 's advertising downright retarded , but that would be quite an insult to my mentally handicapped friends .
The best sort of advertising you can do is talk to people yourself and inform them about what 's happening.You have the power .
Ray has quite a bit of power to do so because a lot of people care what he has to say .
" Just a guy " does n't matter .
It might be a bit slower to do it yourself , but look at it this way : Any movement toward having a more educated populace is a positive one .
Whether or not you talk is fairly irrelevant , all you can do is speed up the process.Why do n't you want to speed up the process ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You call what the RIAA puts out on television effective advertising?Parents know their kids download, do you think they're willingly going to let the RIAA tell them that their kids are evil?
Kids know their friends aren't evil because their friends don't go around doing "other" evil things.Also, I think it at least logically registers that nobody feels a song to be equivalent in value to a $20,000+ car.I'd call the RIAA's advertising downright retarded, but that would be quite an insult to my mentally handicapped friends.
The best sort of advertising you can do is talk to people yourself and inform them about what's happening.You have the power.
Ray has quite a bit of power to do so because a lot of people care what he has to say.
"Just a guy" doesn't matter.
It might be a bit slower to do it yourself, but look at it this way: Any movement toward having a more educated populace is a positive one.
Whether or not you talk is fairly irrelevant, all you can do is speed up the process.Why don't you want to speed up the process?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412507</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28422369</id>
	<title>Re:If you're on a jury for cases like this, NULLIF</title>
	<author>david\_thornley</author>
	<datestamp>1245686220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
FWIW, I've been empaneled twice (i.e., sat in the jury box, sworn to answer truthfully, asked questions), and neither time has jury nullification been mentioned.  I was a peremptory strike both times (i.e., one of the attorneys decided to remove me), but for other reasons.  I think I probably influenced the jury in one case, where it was clear I was removed for knowing something about statistics.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FWIW , I 've been empaneled twice ( i.e. , sat in the jury box , sworn to answer truthfully , asked questions ) , and neither time has jury nullification been mentioned .
I was a peremptory strike both times ( i.e. , one of the attorneys decided to remove me ) , but for other reasons .
I think I probably influenced the jury in one case , where it was clear I was removed for knowing something about statistics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
FWIW, I've been empaneled twice (i.e., sat in the jury box, sworn to answer truthfully, asked questions), and neither time has jury nullification been mentioned.
I was a peremptory strike both times (i.e., one of the attorneys decided to remove me), but for other reasons.
I think I probably influenced the jury in one case, where it was clear I was removed for knowing something about statistics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413615</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413971</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA</title>
	<author>PottedMeat</author>
	<datestamp>1245582000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm with you there.  This is one issue where it's very easy vote with your dollars.  I won't support an industry that behaves like this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm with you there .
This is one issue where it 's very easy vote with your dollars .
I wo n't support an industry that behaves like this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm with you there.
This is one issue where it's very easy vote with your dollars.
I won't support an industry that behaves like this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413499</id>
	<title>Re:I imagine a parallel universe sometimes, too</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1245578220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think NYCLawyer was caught by surprise as well.  The trial ended quickly and it was almost as if the defense didn't put up a fight.  His blog is really like a rebuke of the poor showing of the defense lawyers at the trial, worded in a way that avoids directly insulting someone who is offering their services for free, and probably doing the best they can.  The closest he got to a direct condemnation was, " the plaintiffs are overlawyered, the defendants underlawyered, and the Courts misled by both" but a careful reading shows he is unhappy with how the defense proceeded, he thought they could have done a lot better.<br> <br>
The major roadblock that I see is the RIAA has no evidence that she actually shared the files with anyone, other than mediasentry.  Furthermore, it is extremely unlikely she knew that she was actually offering to share those files with anyone.  Is she guilty of illegally copying music?  Yes, probably so (but the RIAA should be required to show that!).  Is she guilty of purposely distributing millions of songs?  Probably not.  Did she actually distribute those songs?  Probably, since that's how Kazaa works (besides being something of malware), but probably not millions of copies, and she probably wasn't aware of what Kazaa was doing.  She probably wasn't aware of the other bad things Kazaa was doing, either.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think NYCLawyer was caught by surprise as well .
The trial ended quickly and it was almost as if the defense did n't put up a fight .
His blog is really like a rebuke of the poor showing of the defense lawyers at the trial , worded in a way that avoids directly insulting someone who is offering their services for free , and probably doing the best they can .
The closest he got to a direct condemnation was , " the plaintiffs are overlawyered , the defendants underlawyered , and the Courts misled by both " but a careful reading shows he is unhappy with how the defense proceeded , he thought they could have done a lot better .
The major roadblock that I see is the RIAA has no evidence that she actually shared the files with anyone , other than mediasentry .
Furthermore , it is extremely unlikely she knew that she was actually offering to share those files with anyone .
Is she guilty of illegally copying music ?
Yes , probably so ( but the RIAA should be required to show that ! ) .
Is she guilty of purposely distributing millions of songs ?
Probably not .
Did she actually distribute those songs ?
Probably , since that 's how Kazaa works ( besides being something of malware ) , but probably not millions of copies , and she probably was n't aware of what Kazaa was doing .
She probably was n't aware of the other bad things Kazaa was doing , either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think NYCLawyer was caught by surprise as well.
The trial ended quickly and it was almost as if the defense didn't put up a fight.
His blog is really like a rebuke of the poor showing of the defense lawyers at the trial, worded in a way that avoids directly insulting someone who is offering their services for free, and probably doing the best they can.
The closest he got to a direct condemnation was, " the plaintiffs are overlawyered, the defendants underlawyered, and the Courts misled by both" but a careful reading shows he is unhappy with how the defense proceeded, he thought they could have done a lot better.
The major roadblock that I see is the RIAA has no evidence that she actually shared the files with anyone, other than mediasentry.
Furthermore, it is extremely unlikely she knew that she was actually offering to share those files with anyone.
Is she guilty of illegally copying music?
Yes, probably so (but the RIAA should be required to show that!).
Is she guilty of purposely distributing millions of songs?
Probably not.
Did she actually distribute those songs?
Probably, since that's how Kazaa works (besides being something of malware), but probably not millions of copies, and she probably wasn't aware of what Kazaa was doing.
She probably wasn't aware of the other bad things Kazaa was doing, either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412397</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412477</id>
	<title>Re:Justifying piracy</title>
	<author>easyTree</author>
	<datestamp>1245613080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I'm a human leech with self-serving beliefs and an inability to empathize with content creators who are trying to make a living.</p></div></blockquote><p>Yah; it's terrible the way you RIAA ghouls abuse those whose interests you purport to serve.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a human leech with self-serving beliefs and an inability to empathize with content creators who are trying to make a living.Yah ; it 's terrible the way you RIAA ghouls abuse those whose interests you purport to serve .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a human leech with self-serving beliefs and an inability to empathize with content creators who are trying to make a living.Yah; it's terrible the way you RIAA ghouls abuse those whose interests you purport to serve.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412221</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413751</id>
	<title>It's not $24</title>
	<author>harlows\_monkeys</author>
	<datestamp>1245580200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>$24 is the price they charge for 24 licenses for consumer use of songs. Licenses to make and distribute an unlimited, untracked, number copies generally go for a few orders of magnitude more than $1 per license.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>$ 24 is the price they charge for 24 licenses for consumer use of songs .
Licenses to make and distribute an unlimited , untracked , number copies generally go for a few orders of magnitude more than $ 1 per license .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>$24 is the price they charge for 24 licenses for consumer use of songs.
Licenses to make and distribute an unlimited, untracked, number copies generally go for a few orders of magnitude more than $1 per license.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412507</id>
	<title>Advertise</title>
	<author>Son of Byrne</author>
	<datestamp>1245613320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hey NYCL, maybe you'd be interested in heading up a campaign to collect some funds from those of us in the know to educate the masses. I know from experience that the biggest problem with these court cases is ignorance. The judges sound like they're catching up, but I believe the persons on jury panels are still ignorant of the real dollar values involved and the facts surrounding the RIAA's abuses of the judicial system.
<br> <br>
The first thing that comes to mind is that there are scads of advertisements from the MPAA and the RIAA that go to great lengths to equate copyright infringement with criminal theft (a very successful campaign I might point out based upon ignorant comments on this very website).  What the world needs right now is not love, but balance.  We're lacking *any* kind of counterpoint regarding consumer digital rights.  I'd be thrilled to pieces to see one shred of advertisement (a billboard ad, paid ad time on network TV, etc.) that presented the opposition to the RIAA and the MPAA.
<br> <br>
In short, if someone were to take the lead and head up a group that took funds from the public that were then used in a campaign of this sort, then I would be the first person in line to donate some cash.
<br> <br>
I know, the EFF is *supposed* to be leading the charge on this, but I've seen not one physical manifestation of their efforts.  Advertising on the Internet is cheap...but obviously not as effective as a commercial that equates stealing a car with downloading a song.
<br> <br>
Anyone?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey NYCL , maybe you 'd be interested in heading up a campaign to collect some funds from those of us in the know to educate the masses .
I know from experience that the biggest problem with these court cases is ignorance .
The judges sound like they 're catching up , but I believe the persons on jury panels are still ignorant of the real dollar values involved and the facts surrounding the RIAA 's abuses of the judicial system .
The first thing that comes to mind is that there are scads of advertisements from the MPAA and the RIAA that go to great lengths to equate copyright infringement with criminal theft ( a very successful campaign I might point out based upon ignorant comments on this very website ) .
What the world needs right now is not love , but balance .
We 're lacking * any * kind of counterpoint regarding consumer digital rights .
I 'd be thrilled to pieces to see one shred of advertisement ( a billboard ad , paid ad time on network TV , etc .
) that presented the opposition to the RIAA and the MPAA .
In short , if someone were to take the lead and head up a group that took funds from the public that were then used in a campaign of this sort , then I would be the first person in line to donate some cash .
I know , the EFF is * supposed * to be leading the charge on this , but I 've seen not one physical manifestation of their efforts .
Advertising on the Internet is cheap...but obviously not as effective as a commercial that equates stealing a car with downloading a song .
Anyone ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey NYCL, maybe you'd be interested in heading up a campaign to collect some funds from those of us in the know to educate the masses.
I know from experience that the biggest problem with these court cases is ignorance.
The judges sound like they're catching up, but I believe the persons on jury panels are still ignorant of the real dollar values involved and the facts surrounding the RIAA's abuses of the judicial system.
The first thing that comes to mind is that there are scads of advertisements from the MPAA and the RIAA that go to great lengths to equate copyright infringement with criminal theft (a very successful campaign I might point out based upon ignorant comments on this very website).
What the world needs right now is not love, but balance.
We're lacking *any* kind of counterpoint regarding consumer digital rights.
I'd be thrilled to pieces to see one shred of advertisement (a billboard ad, paid ad time on network TV, etc.
) that presented the opposition to the RIAA and the MPAA.
In short, if someone were to take the lead and head up a group that took funds from the public that were then used in a campaign of this sort, then I would be the first person in line to donate some cash.
I know, the EFF is *supposed* to be leading the charge on this, but I've seen not one physical manifestation of their efforts.
Advertising on the Internet is cheap...but obviously not as effective as a commercial that equates stealing a car with downloading a song.
Anyone?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412603</id>
	<title>Re:If you're on a jury for cases like this, NULLIF</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245614220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sure this has been posted a million times.</p><p><b>"I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet devised by man,<br>by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution."</b></p><p><b>--Thomas Jefferson</b></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure this has been posted a million times .
" I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet devised by man,by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution .
" --Thomas Jefferson</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sure this has been posted a million times.
"I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet devised by man,by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution.
"--Thomas Jefferson</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413741</id>
	<title>There won't be much left to steal soon.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245580140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not to worry. Pretty soon there will be no more record labels and no more music to buy as the piracy puts everyone out of business. And I hope everyone that cheers on piracy remembers this. I also hope that when they complain that there's no good music being put out, that one of the primary reasons is that you're stealing the stuff that you consider good, so they can only support the stuff that makes money. The stuff you don't steal.

If someone steals from a store, the police come and put them in jail. If we don't afford IP businesses the same protection from theft, then how can we expect to keep IP? It's true these people should not be sued. But they should go to jail just as if they were to steal anything else. It affects us all because the billions a year lost from music piracy affects the entire economy. Only when someone steal music and puts it on an online file sharing, they aren't simply doing the damage of one unit, they are redistributing it and causing the loss of much greater sales.

Maybe suing people isn't the greatest thing to do. But until the law decides to help out by enforcing the law and throwing thieves in jail, there is nothing else the labels can do to protect themselves from being stolen out of business. Luckily a lot of courts seem to understand this. They know that the case of the RIAA is not the same as other issues that would be laughed out of court.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to worry .
Pretty soon there will be no more record labels and no more music to buy as the piracy puts everyone out of business .
And I hope everyone that cheers on piracy remembers this .
I also hope that when they complain that there 's no good music being put out , that one of the primary reasons is that you 're stealing the stuff that you consider good , so they can only support the stuff that makes money .
The stuff you do n't steal .
If someone steals from a store , the police come and put them in jail .
If we do n't afford IP businesses the same protection from theft , then how can we expect to keep IP ?
It 's true these people should not be sued .
But they should go to jail just as if they were to steal anything else .
It affects us all because the billions a year lost from music piracy affects the entire economy .
Only when someone steal music and puts it on an online file sharing , they are n't simply doing the damage of one unit , they are redistributing it and causing the loss of much greater sales .
Maybe suing people is n't the greatest thing to do .
But until the law decides to help out by enforcing the law and throwing thieves in jail , there is nothing else the labels can do to protect themselves from being stolen out of business .
Luckily a lot of courts seem to understand this .
They know that the case of the RIAA is not the same as other issues that would be laughed out of court .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to worry.
Pretty soon there will be no more record labels and no more music to buy as the piracy puts everyone out of business.
And I hope everyone that cheers on piracy remembers this.
I also hope that when they complain that there's no good music being put out, that one of the primary reasons is that you're stealing the stuff that you consider good, so they can only support the stuff that makes money.
The stuff you don't steal.
If someone steals from a store, the police come and put them in jail.
If we don't afford IP businesses the same protection from theft, then how can we expect to keep IP?
It's true these people should not be sued.
But they should go to jail just as if they were to steal anything else.
It affects us all because the billions a year lost from music piracy affects the entire economy.
Only when someone steal music and puts it on an online file sharing, they aren't simply doing the damage of one unit, they are redistributing it and causing the loss of much greater sales.
Maybe suing people isn't the greatest thing to do.
But until the law decides to help out by enforcing the law and throwing thieves in jail, there is nothing else the labels can do to protect themselves from being stolen out of business.
Luckily a lot of courts seem to understand this.
They know that the case of the RIAA is not the same as other issues that would be laughed out of court.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412557</id>
	<title>It isn't a parallel universe, sadly</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245613740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's the same problem in the US legal system that now is starting to infest other legal systems: the idea that the rights of a corporation take precedence over the rights of an individual, and that the scale of litigation and punishment should be related to the turnover of the corporation rather than that of the individual.<p>As a Brit, I'm aware that my own country's legal system has gone rather downhill over the last 30 years. But the thing that strikes a European most about the US legal system is its cruelty. Punitive damages. Unconvicted defendants for white collar crimes going into court with wire ties binding their wrists. Three strikes and you're out for even a trivial third offense.  "Humane" systems of execution where executioners spin out the proceedings for hours. Obviously practice varies greatly across the US States, just as some EU countries (ahem, Greece, ahem) have crap legal systems and others like Germany have good ones. But you only have to look at the outcome of the Pirate Bay case in Sweden, and this one, to see the disproportion involved. The effect of the Pirate Bay case on the European elections (and now a German MEP has defected to the Pirate Party) also shows the different levels of popular tolerance involved.</p><p>US citizens need to start growing a backbone. You do not have to support criminal activity to demand that corporations not be allowed to take over and distort the legal system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the same problem in the US legal system that now is starting to infest other legal systems : the idea that the rights of a corporation take precedence over the rights of an individual , and that the scale of litigation and punishment should be related to the turnover of the corporation rather than that of the individual.As a Brit , I 'm aware that my own country 's legal system has gone rather downhill over the last 30 years .
But the thing that strikes a European most about the US legal system is its cruelty .
Punitive damages .
Unconvicted defendants for white collar crimes going into court with wire ties binding their wrists .
Three strikes and you 're out for even a trivial third offense .
" Humane " systems of execution where executioners spin out the proceedings for hours .
Obviously practice varies greatly across the US States , just as some EU countries ( ahem , Greece , ahem ) have crap legal systems and others like Germany have good ones .
But you only have to look at the outcome of the Pirate Bay case in Sweden , and this one , to see the disproportion involved .
The effect of the Pirate Bay case on the European elections ( and now a German MEP has defected to the Pirate Party ) also shows the different levels of popular tolerance involved.US citizens need to start growing a backbone .
You do not have to support criminal activity to demand that corporations not be allowed to take over and distort the legal system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the same problem in the US legal system that now is starting to infest other legal systems: the idea that the rights of a corporation take precedence over the rights of an individual, and that the scale of litigation and punishment should be related to the turnover of the corporation rather than that of the individual.As a Brit, I'm aware that my own country's legal system has gone rather downhill over the last 30 years.
But the thing that strikes a European most about the US legal system is its cruelty.
Punitive damages.
Unconvicted defendants for white collar crimes going into court with wire ties binding their wrists.
Three strikes and you're out for even a trivial third offense.
"Humane" systems of execution where executioners spin out the proceedings for hours.
Obviously practice varies greatly across the US States, just as some EU countries (ahem, Greece, ahem) have crap legal systems and others like Germany have good ones.
But you only have to look at the outcome of the Pirate Bay case in Sweden, and this one, to see the disproportion involved.
The effect of the Pirate Bay case on the European elections (and now a German MEP has defected to the Pirate Party) also shows the different levels of popular tolerance involved.US citizens need to start growing a backbone.
You do not have to support criminal activity to demand that corporations not be allowed to take over and distort the legal system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413419</id>
	<title>Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Reports</title>
	<author>mister\_playboy</author>
	<datestamp>1245577680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>(Note: We are not a GOP-sters, Republicans or affiliated with any parties, and as George Washington warned against parties We do not believe in parties and, unlike most people, We evaluate every issue on a case by case basis and do not defer to the judgments of politicians who are corrupted and untrustworthy as a group.)</p><p>Obama is controlled by the same people as Bush see The Obama Deception documentary [youtube.com]</p><p>Yuan Forwards Show China May Buy Fewer Treasuries, UBS Says [bloomberg.com]<br>Anemic Treasury auction effects felt beyond bonds [reuters.com]<br>The Sherminator Kicks Some Wall Street Ass [dailybail.com]<br>China Angry That Fed Is Deliberately Destroying The Dollar [bloomberg.com]<br>China suggests switch from dollar as reserve currency [bbc.co.uk]<br>What are the reserve currencies? [wsj.net]<br>Anatomy of a taxpayer giveaway to investors [ml-implode.com]<br>Geithner rescue package 'robbery of the American people' [telegraph.co.uk]<br>Geithner just put only the rich in Titanics lifeboats [examiner.com]<br>Geithner Plan Will Rob US Taxpayers [cnbc.com]<br>A False Choice [viewfromsi...valley.com]<br>Bargain-hunting house buyers wearing on sellers ajc.com [ajc.com]<br>Time to Take the Steering Wheel out of Geithner's Hands [alternet.org]<br>Socialising and Privatising [freeradical.co.nz]<br>Fannie, Freddie to pay out bonuses [politico.com]<br>Fitch Raises Prime Jumbo Loan Loss Estimates Sharply [researchrecap.com]</p><p>Chinas central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund [ft.com]</p><p>- Russia on an new world reserve currency: It is necessary to work out and adopt internationally recognized standards for macroeconomic and budget policy, which are binding for the leading world economies, including the countries issuing reserve currencies - the Kremlin proposals read. [en.rian.ru]</p><p>- President Barack "The Teleprompter" Obama is deeply connected to corruption. Rahm Emanuel, his Chief of Staff, is radical authoritarian statist whose father was part of the murderous civilian-killing Israeli terrorist organization known as IRGUN who is obsessed with gun control and compulsory service to the country in a capacity which he has yet to define. (Think brown-shirts.) Barack is intimately connected to disgraced Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich (Rahm inherited Rod's federal-congress seat). Barack Obama is also connected to William Ayers (who ghost-wrote his books); Ayers is a man who promotes the concept that civilian collateral damage is ok in a war against freedom. Saul Alinsky, a man who made the quote as follows, "From all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom - Lucifer," is a man who had much influence on the young Barack Obama. A man who admired Lucifer for gaining his own kingdom in an act of rebellion. Barack also subscribed to Preacher Jeremiah Wright, who is himself a Afro-elitist who wants all the people who largely "pay the freight" to suffer at the hands of angry African-American mobs. There are over 30 million Americans on food stamps, and more blacks are in prison and on food-stamps per capita than anyone else. The problem with Wright is simply this: the facts are "racist." There is no conspiracy against African Americans here by citizens.<br>- Obama - AIPAC-bootlicker, corrupted to the bone Chicago-style and a traitor to the US Constitution and a liar whose real "legal" name could very well be Barry Sotero and an Indonesian citizen (The US does not allow plural citizenship) (If you care, not that it matters anymore under a lawless authoritarian totalitarian regime such as Barack Obama's, you can see more here at an aggregator; obamacrimes.info [obamacrimes.info] )<br>- Raytheon lobbyist in Pentagon, many lobbyists getting exemptions even though Obama promised not to have them. This is one of many things Obama has lied about.<br>- Goldman Sachs insider second in command at Treasury. Bumbling tax cheat idiot Timothy Geithner in "command" of Treasury, with 17 positions unfilled as of late March 2009.<br>- Obama's cabinet has had several nominees and appointees with multiple tax fraud issues.<br>- Obama lied about having a new degree of accountability and a "sunshine" period for new laws; Obama has signed bills with little or no time for public review at whitehouse.gov as promised. In fact, one of the largest spending bills in US history was passed into law with several members of the House and Senate telling the public there was no time to review the bill, let alone the public.<br>- Pork Spendulus Bill (The Stimulus Bill) contained language that came directly from Tom Daschle (who published a book detailing his machinations to slip healthcare under the radar in some back portion of a budgeting bill). This language included the funding and authority to set up a central database of all medical treatments rendered, and the Stimulus bill also contains language that alters the Medicare-style instructions to doctors: The most economic treatments should now be used, no longer use the treatments with the most efficacy. Rationed health care, courtesy of a disgraced tax cheat, Tom Daschle. When you relatives are dying in a state hospital because their quota was reached, see how you feel.<br>- Obama appointed a Second-Amendment violating-denying Rich-pardoning treasonist Eric Holder as AG, a man who helped a fugitive evade justice and thinks of Americans and cowardly racists.<br>- Obama has put no money at all in for a single new nuclear power plant but wants to help bridges and roads - apparently to promote more driving.<br>- Obama, Blagojevich and Rahm Emanuel have a lot to hide. They literally lived very close to each other, Rahm had (until being Obama's Chief of staff) Blagojevich's old federal congressional seat. Blagojevich helped "The Teleprompter" Obama cheat his way to the Illinois senate by getting other candidates thrown off the ballot in Illinois. Why do you think Blagojevich was so mad? Obama did owe him, big time. Rahm and Obama are preemptively using Blagojevich and trying to publically malign and discredit him because he has information that can bring Obama and Rahm Emanuel down. This is the true face of Obama, ruthless, calculating conniving cheat that will stop at nothing to gain and retain power at any cost breaking any rule.<br>- Tony Rezko, Iraqi Arms Dealer Nahdmi Auchi, and of course Aiham Alsammarae. Barack "The Teleprompter" Obama is so corrupted it's a joke. He is connected to international arms dealers, shady property dealings and people of ill repute to gain what he needs from them: financial bootstrapping of his campaign to rule America.<br>- Fools and "useful idiots" twist the US Federal Budget pie charts by leaving welfare, workfare, interest on debt, social security, Medicare and Medicaid out and focusing only on non-whole "discretionary" pie charts.<br>2007 high level pie chart, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]<br>2009 Pie chart, detailed, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]<br>Now Obama wants to drastically expand the areas of the budget which are getting the most funding by far. There is simply not enough money to fund the obligations made to the public thus far (Unfunded debt obligations which are to pay for the guarantees of social security), let alone Medicare, Medicaid, welfare and other social spending which seeks to guarantee a standard of living to people which is lower what they could gain for themselves. This is an attempt to break the middle class' back so they now need government aid to survive.<br>- Barack Obama is drastically increasing spending and creating more entitlements that will make the US less competitive (especially against China, India, East Europe/Russia). This will be a huge disaster and "change you can believe in" will strap you, your children and your grandchildren with more debt. "No taxation without representation!" Obama is spending money for the next two-three generations and they can't even vote yet, or even have been born. This is co-opting those who cannot vote to pay for this man's reckless and illegal endeavor to make everyone a feudal serf of the federal government.<br>- An alternative to the dollar and a forex and a reserve currency came up at the last G20 meeting. The world will not take faith in Obama's liar-socialist spending and welfare state, why should the taxpayers (plebian citizen-slaves of a police state)?<br>- The spending going on now vastly eclipses all previous spending. In fact, the massive trillion plus debts is a thing of the 80's onwards. Congress signs the checks, remember that year after year, as egregious as the pentagon spending is, that the social spending is completely a waste of money and it is unfunded over the long term. Eisenhower built the interstate highway system, the USA could build a new power infrastructure with this money but instead this money is being pissed into creating more of an entitlement system that is still unfunded, and without massive head-taxes and far more aggressive progressive taxes, could never be funded.<br>- The budgeting being done today were recently reported by a non-partisan auditing commission will lead to about 10 TRILLION in new debt over the next 10 years. Obama is going to double the national debt while doing nothing to address the unfunded debt obligations of Social Security, or address any of the out of control egregious spending going on today via the budgets, the federal reserve and its taxation via inflation, or by bailouts and stimulus bills. This is the worst, most unintelligent and most hated congress in the history of the United States, and we have a seriously incompetent and potentially dangerous-to-the-free-constitutional-republic Barack Obama rubber stamping this bloody mess.<br>- Clinton appointed David Walker of the GAO, he recently quit; the unfunded debt obligations have rendered the USA insolvent according to accounting standards. The USA is already broke and cannot conceivably pay its obligations today.<br>Taxpayers on the hook for $59 trillion [usatoday.com]<br>US Public Debt Unfunded Debt Obligations [wikipedia.org]<br>- Most of the world population gets nothing from their governments, or a very bare minimum or services that benefit only the upper echelons of society. However, the liar Barack Obama says the USA needs his universal "state-hospital" rationed health care to be competitive. This is pure folderol and a lie. China and India give nothing, and they are the biggest threat to the American worker. By forcing healthcare and higher taxes, Americans will be less competitive.</p><p>- If you think 60\% tax rates end to end (income, accounts receivable tax, building permit tax, CDL tax, cigarette tax, corporate income tax, dog license tax, federal income tax, unemployment tax, gasoline tax, hunting license tax, fishing license tax, waterfowl stamp tax, inheritance tax, inventory tax, liquor tax, luxury tax, Medicare tax, city, school and county property tax (up 33 percent last 4 years), real estate tax, social security tax, road usage tax, toll road tax, state and city sales tax, recreational vehicle tax, excise tax, state franchise tax, state unemployment tax, telephone federal excise tax, telephone federal state and local surcharge tax, telephone minimum usage surcharge tax, telephone state and local tax, utility tax, vehicle license registration tax, capital gains tax, lease severance tax, oil and gas assessment tax, airport and FAA taxes and fees, estate tax, misc internet sales tax and many more taxes that I can't recall at the moment) will make the US competitive, along with compulsory programs to provide everyone with health care is going to make the US competitive in the age of India and China, you are incapable of understanding what it takes to build and maintain a successful industrialized republic.</p><p>- As the US nationalizes/rations healthcare to the least common denominator of affordability without regard to efficacy, people with money will simply look into medical tourism so those with money can go to medical parks in India and get real health care. Those who have lived in Canada or in the UK can tell you "free" healthcare is not a panacea. If you think this, you are again, a useful idiot. The NHS in the UK has given bad blood and Hepatitis and AIDS infected blood to people, and Jade Goody who just died was misdiagnosed twice resulting in her death (She was "all cleared" twice of the cervical cancer which she just died of). The NHS in the UK is not able to be sued or held accountable. Neither will Obama's rationed health care service for America.<br>- Sorry to bust the socialist bubble, but support of these types of policies will simply lower the standard of living in the USA, particularly for the middle class. At least at the end of the Eisenhower projects the USA got roads to show for the spending, and with this new spending, the USA could have built power plants that get the USA out of funding the middle east via constant demand for middle-eastern oil, but the age of government for the sake of government is upon us, and the useful idiots line up and believe empty promises.<br>- The pentagon along with Bechtel, Kroll, Bluewater, Halliburton, etc, could get less than half of what they get today, but that will fix nothing fundamental in terms of government spending. It is simply not enough to make a difference when compared to the Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security entitlements.<br>See: YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy [youtube.com]<br>- If Obama thinks its ok to lie to 300 million people about being able to "take care of them" without even being honest about what that care would look like, then being an idiot and believing in Obama is for you.<br>- The head of the IRS and the head of the Treasury, Timothy Geithner, is a Tax Cheat<br>- Lied about no lobbyists - their numbers are growing within Obama's ranks as he issues exemptions.<br>- The US Government already has over 50\% of the budget spent on Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security. Socialists: Good job on that one, its working great. Solution to the current near-collapse-due-to-over-spending: add more unfunded entitlements! And this is still a "George Bush" budget. Over half is being spend on Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security.<br>- This man is such a propagandist that he invented "The Office of the President Elect," the seals, the flags, the podium and that forum was all props and the media never once questioned any of it. It was an invention. This is the power of Obama, technicalities and rules do not apply.<br>- The Socialist-liars can break my spirit and my financial back to force me to "need" a federal government that is turning this country into a police state and is turning it into a quasi-socialist lie, but I will, I must put up a fight. I have kids to educate and feed, and the stuff the pseudo-socialist authoritarian Obama sells (which is failing to various degrees everywhere else as implemented) is simply forcing a culture of failure on a once great, libertarian free country.<br>- I will not be complacent with your "change," and there will be a point where civil war will become an option. See how hard you can push before you get it. How much more than half can the truly productive workers in this country afford to pay. Keep pushing to find out how to start a civil war. The scariest thing about Obamabots is the amount of pleasure they derive from completely defying the US Constitution and giving the government non-enumerated non-extant powers to rule over everyone's quality of life.<br>- The socialist-lie of a plan will not work, its not fundable, it will destroy the currency to fund it, and its really as simple as this: if this insanity is funded by borrowing from the US's economic and military adversaries then Obama and his socialist cabal is not fit to administrate society. Rome fell. Kings who mis-manged their treasuries all fell. Every example of unhinged spending leads to the same result: systemic collapse.<br>- Obama and his sycophantic lunatics would want to have a civil war to get Obama's way and force the socialist-lie system on my already tax paying law abiding ass. And as far as "no new taxes" for those under 250k, its a lie, the tax is called inflation, which is set to begin just about now that the Chinese wont want the USA's worthless treasuries to fund the socialist-lie fantasy (one that COMMUNIST China doesn't even try and sell to its people!) Also, what Obama fails to mention is the states are now compelled to implement his new rules, and to follow the rules the states must raise taxes. Obama may not tax those under 250k, but every last one of the 50 states will.<br>- Barack Obama's numbers don't add up. There is a $59 trillion dollar hole (UFDO) in social security alone. AIG $150 billion here, TARP $350 billion there. $800 billion for a highly dubious pork laden stimulus package. Another one on the way. $59 trillion hole in the balance sheet IGNORED. China saying they aren't going to buy treasuries, calling for new reserve currencies, Clinton clamoring to find buyers now. $3.6 trillion dollar budget, potential military action on Mexico, Iran still a "terrorist state" at the behest of the AIPAC, spending up, dollar about to fall, inflation over time since Breton Woods extremely easy to document, yet, the socialist-liars question when the numbers (the Federal Government numbers) simply don't add up to the point where if the US-GOV was a company it would be insolvent.<br>-How dare the taxpayers question what Barack Obama's drastic spending increases are going to do to the purchasing power of our savings because Barack Obama wants to recklessly spend and try to maintain and American empire AND guarantee a standard of living, and Obama doesn't even want to build a single nuclear power plant to do it? Barack Obama must be a complete and total lunatic moron at best. He is a man child, akin to Michael Jackson, who does not live in the real world. This guy has turned the White House into a Neverland Ranch.<br>- Obama is either a negligent idiot or an unhinged maniac with delusional fantasies. Meanwhile, Obama's tax dodging Treasury Secretary has 17 unfilled positions, the Treasury Dept. isn't even functioning at this point while the rest of the world steadily loses faith in one of the two things that makes the USA relevant in the world at all: the dollar as a "hard" or reserve currency and the US military.<br>- "General welfare" in the constitution was, according to the man who wrote it, Madison, meant to be extremely limited in scope. The federal government per the constitution doesn't even have the enumerated POWER to deal with economic messes. A lot of these "POWERS" were created while there is a crisis to dupe the public into accepting an un-constitutional authoritarian regime as the government and to usurp authority over the people.<br>- The USA is a constitutional republic. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting to eat a sheep. Also a constitutional republic isn't about using a barely-majority or a plurality to stuff your (un-fundable disastrous) crap down the disenfranchised other-half's throat.<br>- With Obama's authoritarian corrupted criminal (aiding and abetting a criminal in flight of prosecution, Rich case) Eric Holder in charge, we won't have our inalienable and enumerated rights to firearms much longer. For a constitutional law expert, Obama must have never read the federalist papers or he would simply hand himself as a traitor. Already there is talk of banning firearms to help Mexico's fight against the cartels. What they fail to mention is the firearms that are being used there are Mexican Military firearms being used by those who defected from the Mexican Army into the cartels directly! The firearms in question were sold to the Mexican military, over 170,000 soldiers are gone with the guns. And now the US citizens have to give up inalienable and enumerated rights? This is insanity.<br>- The arbitrary expansion of "general welfare" is not only unconstitutional, it may very well lead to a serious conflict on the issue.<br>- Here is a debate on general welfare and how stuff like this came to pass, but was clearly no intended by the authors of the document of root law.<br>In Federalist No. 41, James Madison asked rhetorically: "For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power?" (In reference to the general welfare clause)<br>So strongly did the founders believe that "general welfare" wouldn't be expanded as written:<br>In Federalist No. 84, Alexander Hamilton indirectly confirmed Madison's point. (That the "general welfare" clause was "clearly" not a free pass for government)<br>Hamilton argued that a bill of rights, which many were clamoring for, would be not only unnecessary, but dangerous. Since the federal government was given only a few specific powers, there was no need to add prohibitions: it was implicitly prohibited by the listed powers. If a proposed law a relief act, for instance wasn't covered by any of these powers, it was unconstitutional.<br>"why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed?"<br>Hamilton goes on to argue that making Amendments (e.g., enumerating Free speech, press and assembly) and enumerating the 'right' would have the following effect:<br>(A bill of rights) "would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power that is, a power to regulate the press, short of actually shutting it down. "<br>"With respect to the words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison [The US Supreme Court has found the meaning of "general welfare" in the Constitution to be much more elastic than did Mr. Madison. But as the "author of the Constitution," what does he know?]<br>James Madison, when asked if the "general welfare" clause was a grant of power, replied in 1792, in a letter to Henry Lee,</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once.</p><p>"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government , and to provide new Guards for their future security.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...--The Declaration of Independence<br>- Monetizing failures causes more. Japan showed us this for decades. But hey, Barack Obama is actually dumb enough to think you can fix a problem DECADES in the making with a quick fixer-upper. He is screwed in the head or, more likely, lying to the American public to quickly get done the things he wants to get done before he gets thrown out on his ass.<br>- The complaints are with the Federal government (in general) since Breton Woods. The Federal Government and Obama's minions STILL didn't listen to David Walker, a Clinton appointee and former head of the GAO. This isn't about political parties anymore- its about spending the future to the point where today collapses. History is replete with examples of fiat currencies and deficit spending leading to collapse.<br>- Show me a single federal budget that was less than the previous. If this $3.6T budget goes, it is never coming back barring systemic collapse. The only President to ever see the US Public Debt at $0 dollars is Andrew Jackson.<br>- The United States Federal Government, The United States Federal Reserve, and the banks which were enabled to continue down reckless paths by a quasi government agency known as the Federal Reserve whose actions are not subject to congress and whose members are unelected. This situation is untenable and unconstitutional.<br>- Every inflationary road taken in history ends in collapse. Keynesian policies are widely regarded as no longer workable. And while Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, David Walker, Nouriel Roubini, Warren Buffet and Jim Rodgers warn about or predict all the failures, people still refuse to listen to the possibility that the US economy may contract for many years, and spending at these levels is something that can give way to a collapse.<br>- Inflation is a tax: What ignorant tax and spenders don't take into account here is the relative percentages of people's wealth (both net and gross) and the costs of owning and maintaining houses, cars, standards of living.<br>- Inflation via deficit spending is going to make it such that you will be paying a lot more by percentage of your income to maintain a given standard of living. Obama's arguments are so poorly thought out and seek to blame "Republicans" for the mess, its really simply laughable - this unhinged budgeting and currency management crisis needs cleanup now, not worsening.<br>- You can't spend your way out of a hole if the creditors (e.g. China) start telling the USA they won't buy. It is that simple. Now America starts to have to collateralize the debt with assets. The USA will be selling off chunks of American assets to back the new debt. One day, it may even be necessary to sell Alaska back to Russia because no one will take greenbacks to prop up a failing version of a modern Rome.<br>- Ah, here we go with the Matthew Lesko arguments. [lesko.com]<br>Interest rates were on the rise before the government stepped in with free money for everyone (the fine print of course indicate massive strings attached).<br>Other economies, for example, India, have the central rates set to far more reasonable/realistic rates (at the moment ~ 8+\%), which is still tends to be too low, but shows that if you need someone else capital you need to pay a premium for it, and given that capital is in short supply, it would stand to reason that a premium must be charged for it.<br>The problem is the unrealistic growth rates of mature economies don't allow for profiting via growth projections (rather than simply earning money). So the government steps in, turns on the free money spigot, gets the interest rates for savings down in the 1-2\% range while diluting the value of the whole currency in order to prop up dying companies that ran the business like a Madhoff Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes need new money or they cease to exist. This is why the Federal Reserve is trying to issue more Reserve Notes. Without this fresh input of printed money, the Ponzi scheme will collapse.<br>- The Republicans aren't solely responsible for the crisis as Obama's minions would have you believe, congress is (no particular congress), the Executive of the US government (no particular one) and the US Federal Reserve System are all at fault.<br>- Fundamentally, the government is trying to fix the prices of various things to "make it all work." This pulling on the invisible hand is a fools venture. It was predicted long ago the housing collapse (and those, such as myself, in the know, wished while realizing the housing collapse coming that we were wrong for everyone's sake - but the truth is the truth) . It may be that the Austrian (von Mises) economists will ultimately be proven right.<br>- We are a nation of partially educated whiney grabby idiots, and we got the government that represents this. The Chinese, India and other up and coming nations will show no mercy for this arrogant abuse of our status as the world's forex reserves.<br>- War and asset sales will continue to be the only option for this scheme until it is corrected at the core. And to say that the government has already averted a depression by doing what they did (most of the monies injected wont be "felt" for some time), is just arrogance and stupidity. Price fixing prolonged the Great Depression. Price-fixing (or attempting to) houses will do the same, but probably worse.<br>- Obama's minions simply don't care if the US is bankrupted and rendered insolvent, they just want a say in how its done, presumably to "feel safe." Rather selfish.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." AND "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (Possibly Richard Jackson)</p><p>- Everyone better realize that inflation will pay a major role in funding un-fundable fantasies, wiping the savers and the middle class out. The problem is, that other countries are growing tired of making our Federal Reserve notes worth something by buying our debt as treasuries. Obama's minions talk about spending, but in order to "get what YOU want" you will sell debt to potential economic and military adversaries? Real bright. What's really sad is that despite David Walker being an authority on these issues, people refuse to even watch him and listen to what he is saying. Instead of seeing the truth and the bottom line of the unfunded debt obligations, they want HOPE and CHANGE, which are simply concepts which the foolish change into their own personal hopes and changes, but Obama never bothered to outline what to hope for exactly or what he will be changing.<br>- We have a fraud, a huckster, an empty suit for a President, a Community Organizer. This man does not have the ability to formulate an original thought, or to command action. He is a know nothing that lives in a pretend world just like Michael Jackson ensconced himself in Neverland ranch, he will hide behind those who surround him, which happen to be incompetent people who have no compunction about spending the country into oblivion to achieve personal agendas.<br>- On the success of Canada and its form of Socialism: A huge country like Canada with massive amounts of uranium and tar sands and natural resources and a huge land mass with a scant 30 million people is an order of magnitude less of a problem to manage than a country with 10x its population, a serious leaky southern border, backfiring aggressive foreign policy, particularly with Iran, and the US is competing with countries like India and China whose middle classes are larger than the US's entire population. The top 5 students in every Indian and Chinese primary school out numbers all the kids in primary school in the US. Canada is a idyllic island, the USA is front and center in an all out economic and political clash of ideologies.<br>- Cap and trade (and pollution control for solving global problems) will never work unless the top 10 countries in the world (in terms of GDP, manufacturing capacity and population) are on board. Period. end. If the world doesn't quickly move to nuclear now and fusion shortly, it is over. Possibly not if every home on the planet gets a wind vane, but that seems unlikely to happen (since its possible now).<br>- Keynes calls it "the paradox of thrift" and suggested that policies forcing people not to save is a "good idea." The guy wanted people spending all the time, or if he didn't, he never conveyed that to his prot&#195;&#169;g&#195;&#169;s well enough for them to not do what they are doing. Right now the plebeians in the US are actually stashing cash, and everyone from Obama to the media is trying to get people to spend spend spend. The best thing for the long term is for people to prepare for the coming hell, not set out with no reserves.<br>- I have seen Keynes invoked to justify nearly every bad move in the past decade, and its warming up to be a potential currency collapse, the collapse of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve notes, and a collapse of the NYSE. And then they invoke Keynes to suggest the best way out of the mess is to spend out of an already near-critically debt massed black hole.<br>- A house is run like a town is run like a country or business is run like a state is run like a government. If there are things the government is doing that would either force your home into bankruptcy or into jail via fraud charges, then the government and banks shouldn't be operating in that fashion. A certain degree of stretchy liquidity is in order, but in terms of percent of GDP, there is no way of justifying what they US has now.<br>- Iceland failed at 850 percent debt to GDP. The US is at 350 and rising. It is not a good thing at all.<br>- What is happening to the dollar as a forex standard. [youtube.com]<br>- March 19, 2009 C-SPAN - "Let's Quit Destroying Our Dollar!" [youtube.com]<br>- HR 1207 (A bill to make the Fed more accountable and to answer questions regarding the dollar policy) [loc.gov]</p><p>Title: Obama sidetracked by fiscal mess, but presses on [yahoo.com]<br>"Being heard above the din may prove difficult. Lawmakers are wrangl</p></div>
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<tokenext>( Note : We are not a GOP-sters , Republicans or affiliated with any parties , and as George Washington warned against parties We do not believe in parties and , unlike most people , We evaluate every issue on a case by case basis and do not defer to the judgments of politicians who are corrupted and untrustworthy as a group .
) Obama is controlled by the same people as Bush see The Obama Deception documentary [ youtube.com ] Yuan Forwards Show China May Buy Fewer Treasuries , UBS Says [ bloomberg.com ] Anemic Treasury auction effects felt beyond bonds [ reuters.com ] The Sherminator Kicks Some Wall Street Ass [ dailybail.com ] China Angry That Fed Is Deliberately Destroying The Dollar [ bloomberg.com ] China suggests switch from dollar as reserve currency [ bbc.co.uk ] What are the reserve currencies ?
[ wsj.net ] Anatomy of a taxpayer giveaway to investors [ ml-implode.com ] Geithner rescue package 'robbery of the American people ' [ telegraph.co.uk ] Geithner just put only the rich in Titanics lifeboats [ examiner.com ] Geithner Plan Will Rob US Taxpayers [ cnbc.com ] A False Choice [ viewfromsi...valley.com ] Bargain-hunting house buyers wearing on sellers ajc.com [ ajc.com ] Time to Take the Steering Wheel out of Geithner 's Hands [ alternet.org ] Socialising and Privatising [ freeradical.co.nz ] Fannie , Freddie to pay out bonuses [ politico.com ] Fitch Raises Prime Jumbo Loan Loss Estimates Sharply [ researchrecap.com ] Chinas central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund [ ft.com ] - Russia on an new world reserve currency : It is necessary to work out and adopt internationally recognized standards for macroeconomic and budget policy , which are binding for the leading world economies , including the countries issuing reserve currencies - the Kremlin proposals read .
[ en.rian.ru ] - President Barack " The Teleprompter " Obama is deeply connected to corruption .
Rahm Emanuel , his Chief of Staff , is radical authoritarian statist whose father was part of the murderous civilian-killing Israeli terrorist organization known as IRGUN who is obsessed with gun control and compulsory service to the country in a capacity which he has yet to define .
( Think brown-shirts .
) Barack is intimately connected to disgraced Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich ( Rahm inherited Rod 's federal-congress seat ) .
Barack Obama is also connected to William Ayers ( who ghost-wrote his books ) ; Ayers is a man who promotes the concept that civilian collateral damage is ok in a war against freedom .
Saul Alinsky , a man who made the quote as follows , " From all our legends , mythology , and history ( and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins or which is which ) , the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom - Lucifer , " is a man who had much influence on the young Barack Obama .
A man who admired Lucifer for gaining his own kingdom in an act of rebellion .
Barack also subscribed to Preacher Jeremiah Wright , who is himself a Afro-elitist who wants all the people who largely " pay the freight " to suffer at the hands of angry African-American mobs .
There are over 30 million Americans on food stamps , and more blacks are in prison and on food-stamps per capita than anyone else .
The problem with Wright is simply this : the facts are " racist .
" There is no conspiracy against African Americans here by citizens.- Obama - AIPAC-bootlicker , corrupted to the bone Chicago-style and a traitor to the US Constitution and a liar whose real " legal " name could very well be Barry Sotero and an Indonesian citizen ( The US does not allow plural citizenship ) ( If you care , not that it matters anymore under a lawless authoritarian totalitarian regime such as Barack Obama 's , you can see more here at an aggregator ; obamacrimes.info [ obamacrimes.info ] ) - Raytheon lobbyist in Pentagon , many lobbyists getting exemptions even though Obama promised not to have them .
This is one of many things Obama has lied about.- Goldman Sachs insider second in command at Treasury .
Bumbling tax cheat idiot Timothy Geithner in " command " of Treasury , with 17 positions unfilled as of late March 2009.- Obama 's cabinet has had several nominees and appointees with multiple tax fraud issues.- Obama lied about having a new degree of accountability and a " sunshine " period for new laws ; Obama has signed bills with little or no time for public review at whitehouse.gov as promised .
In fact , one of the largest spending bills in US history was passed into law with several members of the House and Senate telling the public there was no time to review the bill , let alone the public.- Pork Spendulus Bill ( The Stimulus Bill ) contained language that came directly from Tom Daschle ( who published a book detailing his machinations to slip healthcare under the radar in some back portion of a budgeting bill ) .
This language included the funding and authority to set up a central database of all medical treatments rendered , and the Stimulus bill also contains language that alters the Medicare-style instructions to doctors : The most economic treatments should now be used , no longer use the treatments with the most efficacy .
Rationed health care , courtesy of a disgraced tax cheat , Tom Daschle .
When you relatives are dying in a state hospital because their quota was reached , see how you feel.- Obama appointed a Second-Amendment violating-denying Rich-pardoning treasonist Eric Holder as AG , a man who helped a fugitive evade justice and thinks of Americans and cowardly racists.- Obama has put no money at all in for a single new nuclear power plant but wants to help bridges and roads - apparently to promote more driving.- Obama , Blagojevich and Rahm Emanuel have a lot to hide .
They literally lived very close to each other , Rahm had ( until being Obama 's Chief of staff ) Blagojevich 's old federal congressional seat .
Blagojevich helped " The Teleprompter " Obama cheat his way to the Illinois senate by getting other candidates thrown off the ballot in Illinois .
Why do you think Blagojevich was so mad ?
Obama did owe him , big time .
Rahm and Obama are preemptively using Blagojevich and trying to publically malign and discredit him because he has information that can bring Obama and Rahm Emanuel down .
This is the true face of Obama , ruthless , calculating conniving cheat that will stop at nothing to gain and retain power at any cost breaking any rule.- Tony Rezko , Iraqi Arms Dealer Nahdmi Auchi , and of course Aiham Alsammarae .
Barack " The Teleprompter " Obama is so corrupted it 's a joke .
He is connected to international arms dealers , shady property dealings and people of ill repute to gain what he needs from them : financial bootstrapping of his campaign to rule America.- Fools and " useful idiots " twist the US Federal Budget pie charts by leaving welfare , workfare , interest on debt , social security , Medicare and Medicaid out and focusing only on non-whole " discretionary " pie charts.2007 high level pie chart , Federal Budget , USA [ wikimedia.org ] 2009 Pie chart , detailed , Federal Budget , USA [ wikimedia.org ] Now Obama wants to drastically expand the areas of the budget which are getting the most funding by far .
There is simply not enough money to fund the obligations made to the public thus far ( Unfunded debt obligations which are to pay for the guarantees of social security ) , let alone Medicare , Medicaid , welfare and other social spending which seeks to guarantee a standard of living to people which is lower what they could gain for themselves .
This is an attempt to break the middle class ' back so they now need government aid to survive.- Barack Obama is drastically increasing spending and creating more entitlements that will make the US less competitive ( especially against China , India , East Europe/Russia ) .
This will be a huge disaster and " change you can believe in " will strap you , your children and your grandchildren with more debt .
" No taxation without representation !
" Obama is spending money for the next two-three generations and they ca n't even vote yet , or even have been born .
This is co-opting those who can not vote to pay for this man 's reckless and illegal endeavor to make everyone a feudal serf of the federal government.- An alternative to the dollar and a forex and a reserve currency came up at the last G20 meeting .
The world will not take faith in Obama 's liar-socialist spending and welfare state , why should the taxpayers ( plebian citizen-slaves of a police state ) ? - The spending going on now vastly eclipses all previous spending .
In fact , the massive trillion plus debts is a thing of the 80 's onwards .
Congress signs the checks , remember that year after year , as egregious as the pentagon spending is , that the social spending is completely a waste of money and it is unfunded over the long term .
Eisenhower built the interstate highway system , the USA could build a new power infrastructure with this money but instead this money is being pissed into creating more of an entitlement system that is still unfunded , and without massive head-taxes and far more aggressive progressive taxes , could never be funded.- The budgeting being done today were recently reported by a non-partisan auditing commission will lead to about 10 TRILLION in new debt over the next 10 years .
Obama is going to double the national debt while doing nothing to address the unfunded debt obligations of Social Security , or address any of the out of control egregious spending going on today via the budgets , the federal reserve and its taxation via inflation , or by bailouts and stimulus bills .
This is the worst , most unintelligent and most hated congress in the history of the United States , and we have a seriously incompetent and potentially dangerous-to-the-free-constitutional-republic Barack Obama rubber stamping this bloody mess.- Clinton appointed David Walker of the GAO , he recently quit ; the unfunded debt obligations have rendered the USA insolvent according to accounting standards .
The USA is already broke and can not conceivably pay its obligations today.Taxpayers on the hook for $ 59 trillion [ usatoday.com ] US Public Debt Unfunded Debt Obligations [ wikipedia.org ] - Most of the world population gets nothing from their governments , or a very bare minimum or services that benefit only the upper echelons of society .
However , the liar Barack Obama says the USA needs his universal " state-hospital " rationed health care to be competitive .
This is pure folderol and a lie .
China and India give nothing , and they are the biggest threat to the American worker .
By forcing healthcare and higher taxes , Americans will be less competitive.- If you think 60 \ % tax rates end to end ( income , accounts receivable tax , building permit tax , CDL tax , cigarette tax , corporate income tax , dog license tax , federal income tax , unemployment tax , gasoline tax , hunting license tax , fishing license tax , waterfowl stamp tax , inheritance tax , inventory tax , liquor tax , luxury tax , Medicare tax , city , school and county property tax ( up 33 percent last 4 years ) , real estate tax , social security tax , road usage tax , toll road tax , state and city sales tax , recreational vehicle tax , excise tax , state franchise tax , state unemployment tax , telephone federal excise tax , telephone federal state and local surcharge tax , telephone minimum usage surcharge tax , telephone state and local tax , utility tax , vehicle license registration tax , capital gains tax , lease severance tax , oil and gas assessment tax , airport and FAA taxes and fees , estate tax , misc internet sales tax and many more taxes that I ca n't recall at the moment ) will make the US competitive , along with compulsory programs to provide everyone with health care is going to make the US competitive in the age of India and China , you are incapable of understanding what it takes to build and maintain a successful industrialized republic.- As the US nationalizes/rations healthcare to the least common denominator of affordability without regard to efficacy , people with money will simply look into medical tourism so those with money can go to medical parks in India and get real health care .
Those who have lived in Canada or in the UK can tell you " free " healthcare is not a panacea .
If you think this , you are again , a useful idiot .
The NHS in the UK has given bad blood and Hepatitis and AIDS infected blood to people , and Jade Goody who just died was misdiagnosed twice resulting in her death ( She was " all cleared " twice of the cervical cancer which she just died of ) .
The NHS in the UK is not able to be sued or held accountable .
Neither will Obama 's rationed health care service for America.- Sorry to bust the socialist bubble , but support of these types of policies will simply lower the standard of living in the USA , particularly for the middle class .
At least at the end of the Eisenhower projects the USA got roads to show for the spending , and with this new spending , the USA could have built power plants that get the USA out of funding the middle east via constant demand for middle-eastern oil , but the age of government for the sake of government is upon us , and the useful idiots line up and believe empty promises.- The pentagon along with Bechtel , Kroll , Bluewater , Halliburton , etc , could get less than half of what they get today , but that will fix nothing fundamental in terms of government spending .
It is simply not enough to make a difference when compared to the Medicare , Medicaid , welfare , workfare and social security entitlements.See : YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy [ youtube.com ] - If Obama thinks its ok to lie to 300 million people about being able to " take care of them " without even being honest about what that care would look like , then being an idiot and believing in Obama is for you.- The head of the IRS and the head of the Treasury , Timothy Geithner , is a Tax Cheat- Lied about no lobbyists - their numbers are growing within Obama 's ranks as he issues exemptions.- The US Government already has over 50 \ % of the budget spent on Medicare , Medicaid , welfare , workfare and social security .
Socialists : Good job on that one , its working great .
Solution to the current near-collapse-due-to-over-spending : add more unfunded entitlements !
And this is still a " George Bush " budget .
Over half is being spend on Medicare , Medicaid , welfare , workfare and social security.- This man is such a propagandist that he invented " The Office of the President Elect , " the seals , the flags , the podium and that forum was all props and the media never once questioned any of it .
It was an invention .
This is the power of Obama , technicalities and rules do not apply.- The Socialist-liars can break my spirit and my financial back to force me to " need " a federal government that is turning this country into a police state and is turning it into a quasi-socialist lie , but I will , I must put up a fight .
I have kids to educate and feed , and the stuff the pseudo-socialist authoritarian Obama sells ( which is failing to various degrees everywhere else as implemented ) is simply forcing a culture of failure on a once great , libertarian free country.- I will not be complacent with your " change , " and there will be a point where civil war will become an option .
See how hard you can push before you get it .
How much more than half can the truly productive workers in this country afford to pay .
Keep pushing to find out how to start a civil war .
The scariest thing about Obamabots is the amount of pleasure they derive from completely defying the US Constitution and giving the government non-enumerated non-extant powers to rule over everyone 's quality of life.- The socialist-lie of a plan will not work , its not fundable , it will destroy the currency to fund it , and its really as simple as this : if this insanity is funded by borrowing from the US 's economic and military adversaries then Obama and his socialist cabal is not fit to administrate society .
Rome fell .
Kings who mis-manged their treasuries all fell .
Every example of unhinged spending leads to the same result : systemic collapse.- Obama and his sycophantic lunatics would want to have a civil war to get Obama 's way and force the socialist-lie system on my already tax paying law abiding ass .
And as far as " no new taxes " for those under 250k , its a lie , the tax is called inflation , which is set to begin just about now that the Chinese wont want the USA 's worthless treasuries to fund the socialist-lie fantasy ( one that COMMUNIST China does n't even try and sell to its people !
) Also , what Obama fails to mention is the states are now compelled to implement his new rules , and to follow the rules the states must raise taxes .
Obama may not tax those under 250k , but every last one of the 50 states will.- Barack Obama 's numbers do n't add up .
There is a $ 59 trillion dollar hole ( UFDO ) in social security alone .
AIG $ 150 billion here , TARP $ 350 billion there .
$ 800 billion for a highly dubious pork laden stimulus package .
Another one on the way .
$ 59 trillion hole in the balance sheet IGNORED .
China saying they are n't going to buy treasuries , calling for new reserve currencies , Clinton clamoring to find buyers now .
$ 3.6 trillion dollar budget , potential military action on Mexico , Iran still a " terrorist state " at the behest of the AIPAC , spending up , dollar about to fall , inflation over time since Breton Woods extremely easy to document , yet , the socialist-liars question when the numbers ( the Federal Government numbers ) simply do n't add up to the point where if the US-GOV was a company it would be insolvent.-How dare the taxpayers question what Barack Obama 's drastic spending increases are going to do to the purchasing power of our savings because Barack Obama wants to recklessly spend and try to maintain and American empire AND guarantee a standard of living , and Obama does n't even want to build a single nuclear power plant to do it ?
Barack Obama must be a complete and total lunatic moron at best .
He is a man child , akin to Michael Jackson , who does not live in the real world .
This guy has turned the White House into a Neverland Ranch.- Obama is either a negligent idiot or an unhinged maniac with delusional fantasies .
Meanwhile , Obama 's tax dodging Treasury Secretary has 17 unfilled positions , the Treasury Dept .
is n't even functioning at this point while the rest of the world steadily loses faith in one of the two things that makes the USA relevant in the world at all : the dollar as a " hard " or reserve currency and the US military.- " General welfare " in the constitution was , according to the man who wrote it , Madison , meant to be extremely limited in scope .
The federal government per the constitution does n't even have the enumerated POWER to deal with economic messes .
A lot of these " POWERS " were created while there is a crisis to dupe the public into accepting an un-constitutional authoritarian regime as the government and to usurp authority over the people.- The USA is a constitutional republic .
A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting to eat a sheep .
Also a constitutional republic is n't about using a barely-majority or a plurality to stuff your ( un-fundable disastrous ) crap down the disenfranchised other-half 's throat.- With Obama 's authoritarian corrupted criminal ( aiding and abetting a criminal in flight of prosecution , Rich case ) Eric Holder in charge , we wo n't have our inalienable and enumerated rights to firearms much longer .
For a constitutional law expert , Obama must have never read the federalist papers or he would simply hand himself as a traitor .
Already there is talk of banning firearms to help Mexico 's fight against the cartels .
What they fail to mention is the firearms that are being used there are Mexican Military firearms being used by those who defected from the Mexican Army into the cartels directly !
The firearms in question were sold to the Mexican military , over 170,000 soldiers are gone with the guns .
And now the US citizens have to give up inalienable and enumerated rights ?
This is insanity.- The arbitrary expansion of " general welfare " is not only unconstitutional , it may very well lead to a serious conflict on the issue.- Here is a debate on general welfare and how stuff like this came to pass , but was clearly no intended by the authors of the document of root law.In Federalist No .
41 , James Madison asked rhetorically : " For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted , if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power ?
" ( In reference to the general welfare clause ) So strongly did the founders believe that " general welfare " would n't be expanded as written : In Federalist No .
84 , Alexander Hamilton indirectly confirmed Madison 's point .
( That the " general welfare " clause was " clearly " not a free pass for government ) Hamilton argued that a bill of rights , which many were clamoring for , would be not only unnecessary , but dangerous .
Since the federal government was given only a few specific powers , there was no need to add prohibitions : it was implicitly prohibited by the listed powers .
If a proposed law a relief act , for instance was n't covered by any of these powers , it was unconstitutional .
" why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do ?
Why , for instance , should it be said , that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed ?
" Hamilton goes on to argue that making Amendments ( e.g. , enumerating Free speech , press and assembly ) and enumerating the 'right ' would have the following effect : ( A bill of rights ) " would furnish , to men disposed to usurp , a plausible pretence for claiming that power that is , a power to regulate the press , short of actually shutting it down .
" " With respect to the words 'general welfare, ' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers ( enumerated in the Constitution ) connected with them .
To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators .
" --James Madison [ The US Supreme Court has found the meaning of " general welfare " in the Constitution to be much more elastic than did Mr. Madison. But as the " author of the Constitution , " what does he know ?
] James Madison , when asked if the " general welfare " clause was a grant of power , replied in 1792 , in a letter to Henry Lee ,         If not only the means but the objects are unlimited , the parchment [ the Constitution ] should be thrown into the fire at once .
" ...We hold these truths to be self-evident , that all men are created equal , that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights , that among these are Life , Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness .
That to secure these rights , Governments are instituted among Men , deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed .
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends , it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...it is their right , it is their duty , to throw off such Government , and to provide new Guards for their future security .
...--The Declaration of Independence- Monetizing failures causes more .
Japan showed us this for decades .
But hey , Barack Obama is actually dumb enough to think you can fix a problem DECADES in the making with a quick fixer-upper .
He is screwed in the head or , more likely , lying to the American public to quickly get done the things he wants to get done before he gets thrown out on his ass.- The complaints are with the Federal government ( in general ) since Breton Woods .
The Federal Government and Obama 's minions STILL did n't listen to David Walker , a Clinton appointee and former head of the GAO .
This is n't about political parties anymore- its about spending the future to the point where today collapses .
History is replete with examples of fiat currencies and deficit spending leading to collapse.- Show me a single federal budget that was less than the previous .
If this $ 3.6T budget goes , it is never coming back barring systemic collapse .
The only President to ever see the US Public Debt at $ 0 dollars is Andrew Jackson.- The United States Federal Government , The United States Federal Reserve , and the banks which were enabled to continue down reckless paths by a quasi government agency known as the Federal Reserve whose actions are not subject to congress and whose members are unelected .
This situation is untenable and unconstitutional.- Every inflationary road taken in history ends in collapse .
Keynesian policies are widely regarded as no longer workable .
And while Ron Paul , Peter Schiff , David Walker , Nouriel Roubini , Warren Buffet and Jim Rodgers warn about or predict all the failures , people still refuse to listen to the possibility that the US economy may contract for many years , and spending at these levels is something that can give way to a collapse.- Inflation is a tax : What ignorant tax and spenders do n't take into account here is the relative percentages of people 's wealth ( both net and gross ) and the costs of owning and maintaining houses , cars , standards of living.- Inflation via deficit spending is going to make it such that you will be paying a lot more by percentage of your income to maintain a given standard of living .
Obama 's arguments are so poorly thought out and seek to blame " Republicans " for the mess , its really simply laughable - this unhinged budgeting and currency management crisis needs cleanup now , not worsening.- You ca n't spend your way out of a hole if the creditors ( e.g .
China ) start telling the USA they wo n't buy .
It is that simple .
Now America starts to have to collateralize the debt with assets .
The USA will be selling off chunks of American assets to back the new debt .
One day , it may even be necessary to sell Alaska back to Russia because no one will take greenbacks to prop up a failing version of a modern Rome.- Ah , here we go with the Matthew Lesko arguments .
[ lesko.com ] Interest rates were on the rise before the government stepped in with free money for everyone ( the fine print of course indicate massive strings attached ) .Other economies , for example , India , have the central rates set to far more reasonable/realistic rates ( at the moment ~ 8 + \ % ) , which is still tends to be too low , but shows that if you need someone else capital you need to pay a premium for it , and given that capital is in short supply , it would stand to reason that a premium must be charged for it.The problem is the unrealistic growth rates of mature economies do n't allow for profiting via growth projections ( rather than simply earning money ) .
So the government steps in , turns on the free money spigot , gets the interest rates for savings down in the 1-2 \ % range while diluting the value of the whole currency in order to prop up dying companies that ran the business like a Madhoff Ponzi scheme .
Ponzi schemes need new money or they cease to exist .
This is why the Federal Reserve is trying to issue more Reserve Notes .
Without this fresh input of printed money , the Ponzi scheme will collapse.- The Republicans are n't solely responsible for the crisis as Obama 's minions would have you believe , congress is ( no particular congress ) , the Executive of the US government ( no particular one ) and the US Federal Reserve System are all at fault.- Fundamentally , the government is trying to fix the prices of various things to " make it all work .
" This pulling on the invisible hand is a fools venture .
It was predicted long ago the housing collapse ( and those , such as myself , in the know , wished while realizing the housing collapse coming that we were wrong for everyone 's sake - but the truth is the truth ) .
It may be that the Austrian ( von Mises ) economists will ultimately be proven right.- We are a nation of partially educated whiney grabby idiots , and we got the government that represents this .
The Chinese , India and other up and coming nations will show no mercy for this arrogant abuse of our status as the world 's forex reserves.- War and asset sales will continue to be the only option for this scheme until it is corrected at the core .
And to say that the government has already averted a depression by doing what they did ( most of the monies injected wont be " felt " for some time ) , is just arrogance and stupidity .
Price fixing prolonged the Great Depression .
Price-fixing ( or attempting to ) houses will do the same , but probably worse.- Obama 's minions simply do n't care if the US is bankrupted and rendered insolvent , they just want a say in how its done , presumably to " feel safe .
" Rather selfish .
        " They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety , deserve neither liberty nor safety .
" AND " Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety , deserve neither Liberty nor Safety .
" -- Benjamin Franklin ( Possibly Richard Jackson ) - Everyone better realize that inflation will pay a major role in funding un-fundable fantasies , wiping the savers and the middle class out .
The problem is , that other countries are growing tired of making our Federal Reserve notes worth something by buying our debt as treasuries .
Obama 's minions talk about spending , but in order to " get what YOU want " you will sell debt to potential economic and military adversaries ?
Real bright .
What 's really sad is that despite David Walker being an authority on these issues , people refuse to even watch him and listen to what he is saying .
Instead of seeing the truth and the bottom line of the unfunded debt obligations , they want HOPE and CHANGE , which are simply concepts which the foolish change into their own personal hopes and changes , but Obama never bothered to outline what to hope for exactly or what he will be changing.- We have a fraud , a huckster , an empty suit for a President , a Community Organizer .
This man does not have the ability to formulate an original thought , or to command action .
He is a know nothing that lives in a pretend world just like Michael Jackson ensconced himself in Neverland ranch , he will hide behind those who surround him , which happen to be incompetent people who have no compunction about spending the country into oblivion to achieve personal agendas.- On the success of Canada and its form of Socialism : A huge country like Canada with massive amounts of uranium and tar sands and natural resources and a huge land mass with a scant 30 million people is an order of magnitude less of a problem to manage than a country with 10x its population , a serious leaky southern border , backfiring aggressive foreign policy , particularly with Iran , and the US is competing with countries like India and China whose middle classes are larger than the US 's entire population .
The top 5 students in every Indian and Chinese primary school out numbers all the kids in primary school in the US .
Canada is a idyllic island , the USA is front and center in an all out economic and political clash of ideologies.- Cap and trade ( and pollution control for solving global problems ) will never work unless the top 10 countries in the world ( in terms of GDP , manufacturing capacity and population ) are on board .
Period. end .
If the world does n't quickly move to nuclear now and fusion shortly , it is over .
Possibly not if every home on the planet gets a wind vane , but that seems unlikely to happen ( since its possible now ) .- Keynes calls it " the paradox of thrift " and suggested that policies forcing people not to save is a " good idea .
" The guy wanted people spending all the time , or if he did n't , he never conveyed that to his prot     g     s well enough for them to not do what they are doing .
Right now the plebeians in the US are actually stashing cash , and everyone from Obama to the media is trying to get people to spend spend spend .
The best thing for the long term is for people to prepare for the coming hell , not set out with no reserves.- I have seen Keynes invoked to justify nearly every bad move in the past decade , and its warming up to be a potential currency collapse , the collapse of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve notes , and a collapse of the NYSE .
And then they invoke Keynes to suggest the best way out of the mess is to spend out of an already near-critically debt massed black hole.- A house is run like a town is run like a country or business is run like a state is run like a government .
If there are things the government is doing that would either force your home into bankruptcy or into jail via fraud charges , then the government and banks should n't be operating in that fashion .
A certain degree of stretchy liquidity is in order , but in terms of percent of GDP , there is no way of justifying what they US has now.- Iceland failed at 850 percent debt to GDP .
The US is at 350 and rising .
It is not a good thing at all.- What is happening to the dollar as a forex standard .
[ youtube.com ] - March 19 , 2009 C-SPAN - " Let 's Quit Destroying Our Dollar !
" [ youtube.com ] - HR 1207 ( A bill to make the Fed more accountable and to answer questions regarding the dollar policy ) [ loc.gov ] Title : Obama sidetracked by fiscal mess , but presses on [ yahoo.com ] " Being heard above the din may prove difficult .
Lawmakers are wrangl</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(Note: We are not a GOP-sters, Republicans or affiliated with any parties, and as George Washington warned against parties We do not believe in parties and, unlike most people, We evaluate every issue on a case by case basis and do not defer to the judgments of politicians who are corrupted and untrustworthy as a group.
)Obama is controlled by the same people as Bush see The Obama Deception documentary [youtube.com]Yuan Forwards Show China May Buy Fewer Treasuries, UBS Says [bloomberg.com]Anemic Treasury auction effects felt beyond bonds [reuters.com]The Sherminator Kicks Some Wall Street Ass [dailybail.com]China Angry That Fed Is Deliberately Destroying The Dollar [bloomberg.com]China suggests switch from dollar as reserve currency [bbc.co.uk]What are the reserve currencies?
[wsj.net]Anatomy of a taxpayer giveaway to investors [ml-implode.com]Geithner rescue package 'robbery of the American people' [telegraph.co.uk]Geithner just put only the rich in Titanics lifeboats [examiner.com]Geithner Plan Will Rob US Taxpayers [cnbc.com]A False Choice [viewfromsi...valley.com]Bargain-hunting house buyers wearing on sellers ajc.com [ajc.com]Time to Take the Steering Wheel out of Geithner's Hands [alternet.org]Socialising and Privatising [freeradical.co.nz]Fannie, Freddie to pay out bonuses [politico.com]Fitch Raises Prime Jumbo Loan Loss Estimates Sharply [researchrecap.com]Chinas central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund [ft.com]- Russia on an new world reserve currency: It is necessary to work out and adopt internationally recognized standards for macroeconomic and budget policy, which are binding for the leading world economies, including the countries issuing reserve currencies - the Kremlin proposals read.
[en.rian.ru]- President Barack "The Teleprompter" Obama is deeply connected to corruption.
Rahm Emanuel, his Chief of Staff, is radical authoritarian statist whose father was part of the murderous civilian-killing Israeli terrorist organization known as IRGUN who is obsessed with gun control and compulsory service to the country in a capacity which he has yet to define.
(Think brown-shirts.
) Barack is intimately connected to disgraced Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich (Rahm inherited Rod's federal-congress seat).
Barack Obama is also connected to William Ayers (who ghost-wrote his books); Ayers is a man who promotes the concept that civilian collateral damage is ok in a war against freedom.
Saul Alinsky, a man who made the quote as follows, "From all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom - Lucifer," is a man who had much influence on the young Barack Obama.
A man who admired Lucifer for gaining his own kingdom in an act of rebellion.
Barack also subscribed to Preacher Jeremiah Wright, who is himself a Afro-elitist who wants all the people who largely "pay the freight" to suffer at the hands of angry African-American mobs.
There are over 30 million Americans on food stamps, and more blacks are in prison and on food-stamps per capita than anyone else.
The problem with Wright is simply this: the facts are "racist.
" There is no conspiracy against African Americans here by citizens.- Obama - AIPAC-bootlicker, corrupted to the bone Chicago-style and a traitor to the US Constitution and a liar whose real "legal" name could very well be Barry Sotero and an Indonesian citizen (The US does not allow plural citizenship) (If you care, not that it matters anymore under a lawless authoritarian totalitarian regime such as Barack Obama's, you can see more here at an aggregator; obamacrimes.info [obamacrimes.info] )- Raytheon lobbyist in Pentagon, many lobbyists getting exemptions even though Obama promised not to have them.
This is one of many things Obama has lied about.- Goldman Sachs insider second in command at Treasury.
Bumbling tax cheat idiot Timothy Geithner in "command" of Treasury, with 17 positions unfilled as of late March 2009.- Obama's cabinet has had several nominees and appointees with multiple tax fraud issues.- Obama lied about having a new degree of accountability and a "sunshine" period for new laws; Obama has signed bills with little or no time for public review at whitehouse.gov as promised.
In fact, one of the largest spending bills in US history was passed into law with several members of the House and Senate telling the public there was no time to review the bill, let alone the public.- Pork Spendulus Bill (The Stimulus Bill) contained language that came directly from Tom Daschle (who published a book detailing his machinations to slip healthcare under the radar in some back portion of a budgeting bill).
This language included the funding and authority to set up a central database of all medical treatments rendered, and the Stimulus bill also contains language that alters the Medicare-style instructions to doctors: The most economic treatments should now be used, no longer use the treatments with the most efficacy.
Rationed health care, courtesy of a disgraced tax cheat, Tom Daschle.
When you relatives are dying in a state hospital because their quota was reached, see how you feel.- Obama appointed a Second-Amendment violating-denying Rich-pardoning treasonist Eric Holder as AG, a man who helped a fugitive evade justice and thinks of Americans and cowardly racists.- Obama has put no money at all in for a single new nuclear power plant but wants to help bridges and roads - apparently to promote more driving.- Obama, Blagojevich and Rahm Emanuel have a lot to hide.
They literally lived very close to each other, Rahm had (until being Obama's Chief of staff) Blagojevich's old federal congressional seat.
Blagojevich helped "The Teleprompter" Obama cheat his way to the Illinois senate by getting other candidates thrown off the ballot in Illinois.
Why do you think Blagojevich was so mad?
Obama did owe him, big time.
Rahm and Obama are preemptively using Blagojevich and trying to publically malign and discredit him because he has information that can bring Obama and Rahm Emanuel down.
This is the true face of Obama, ruthless, calculating conniving cheat that will stop at nothing to gain and retain power at any cost breaking any rule.- Tony Rezko, Iraqi Arms Dealer Nahdmi Auchi, and of course Aiham Alsammarae.
Barack "The Teleprompter" Obama is so corrupted it's a joke.
He is connected to international arms dealers, shady property dealings and people of ill repute to gain what he needs from them: financial bootstrapping of his campaign to rule America.- Fools and "useful idiots" twist the US Federal Budget pie charts by leaving welfare, workfare, interest on debt, social security, Medicare and Medicaid out and focusing only on non-whole "discretionary" pie charts.2007 high level pie chart, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]2009 Pie chart, detailed, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]Now Obama wants to drastically expand the areas of the budget which are getting the most funding by far.
There is simply not enough money to fund the obligations made to the public thus far (Unfunded debt obligations which are to pay for the guarantees of social security), let alone Medicare, Medicaid, welfare and other social spending which seeks to guarantee a standard of living to people which is lower what they could gain for themselves.
This is an attempt to break the middle class' back so they now need government aid to survive.- Barack Obama is drastically increasing spending and creating more entitlements that will make the US less competitive (especially against China, India, East Europe/Russia).
This will be a huge disaster and "change you can believe in" will strap you, your children and your grandchildren with more debt.
"No taxation without representation!
" Obama is spending money for the next two-three generations and they can't even vote yet, or even have been born.
This is co-opting those who cannot vote to pay for this man's reckless and illegal endeavor to make everyone a feudal serf of the federal government.- An alternative to the dollar and a forex and a reserve currency came up at the last G20 meeting.
The world will not take faith in Obama's liar-socialist spending and welfare state, why should the taxpayers (plebian citizen-slaves of a police state)?- The spending going on now vastly eclipses all previous spending.
In fact, the massive trillion plus debts is a thing of the 80's onwards.
Congress signs the checks, remember that year after year, as egregious as the pentagon spending is, that the social spending is completely a waste of money and it is unfunded over the long term.
Eisenhower built the interstate highway system, the USA could build a new power infrastructure with this money but instead this money is being pissed into creating more of an entitlement system that is still unfunded, and without massive head-taxes and far more aggressive progressive taxes, could never be funded.- The budgeting being done today were recently reported by a non-partisan auditing commission will lead to about 10 TRILLION in new debt over the next 10 years.
Obama is going to double the national debt while doing nothing to address the unfunded debt obligations of Social Security, or address any of the out of control egregious spending going on today via the budgets, the federal reserve and its taxation via inflation, or by bailouts and stimulus bills.
This is the worst, most unintelligent and most hated congress in the history of the United States, and we have a seriously incompetent and potentially dangerous-to-the-free-constitutional-republic Barack Obama rubber stamping this bloody mess.- Clinton appointed David Walker of the GAO, he recently quit; the unfunded debt obligations have rendered the USA insolvent according to accounting standards.
The USA is already broke and cannot conceivably pay its obligations today.Taxpayers on the hook for $59 trillion [usatoday.com]US Public Debt Unfunded Debt Obligations [wikipedia.org]- Most of the world population gets nothing from their governments, or a very bare minimum or services that benefit only the upper echelons of society.
However, the liar Barack Obama says the USA needs his universal "state-hospital" rationed health care to be competitive.
This is pure folderol and a lie.
China and India give nothing, and they are the biggest threat to the American worker.
By forcing healthcare and higher taxes, Americans will be less competitive.- If you think 60\% tax rates end to end (income, accounts receivable tax, building permit tax, CDL tax, cigarette tax, corporate income tax, dog license tax, federal income tax, unemployment tax, gasoline tax, hunting license tax, fishing license tax, waterfowl stamp tax, inheritance tax, inventory tax, liquor tax, luxury tax, Medicare tax, city, school and county property tax (up 33 percent last 4 years), real estate tax, social security tax, road usage tax, toll road tax, state and city sales tax, recreational vehicle tax, excise tax, state franchise tax, state unemployment tax, telephone federal excise tax, telephone federal state and local surcharge tax, telephone minimum usage surcharge tax, telephone state and local tax, utility tax, vehicle license registration tax, capital gains tax, lease severance tax, oil and gas assessment tax, airport and FAA taxes and fees, estate tax, misc internet sales tax and many more taxes that I can't recall at the moment) will make the US competitive, along with compulsory programs to provide everyone with health care is going to make the US competitive in the age of India and China, you are incapable of understanding what it takes to build and maintain a successful industrialized republic.- As the US nationalizes/rations healthcare to the least common denominator of affordability without regard to efficacy, people with money will simply look into medical tourism so those with money can go to medical parks in India and get real health care.
Those who have lived in Canada or in the UK can tell you "free" healthcare is not a panacea.
If you think this, you are again, a useful idiot.
The NHS in the UK has given bad blood and Hepatitis and AIDS infected blood to people, and Jade Goody who just died was misdiagnosed twice resulting in her death (She was "all cleared" twice of the cervical cancer which she just died of).
The NHS in the UK is not able to be sued or held accountable.
Neither will Obama's rationed health care service for America.- Sorry to bust the socialist bubble, but support of these types of policies will simply lower the standard of living in the USA, particularly for the middle class.
At least at the end of the Eisenhower projects the USA got roads to show for the spending, and with this new spending, the USA could have built power plants that get the USA out of funding the middle east via constant demand for middle-eastern oil, but the age of government for the sake of government is upon us, and the useful idiots line up and believe empty promises.- The pentagon along with Bechtel, Kroll, Bluewater, Halliburton, etc, could get less than half of what they get today, but that will fix nothing fundamental in terms of government spending.
It is simply not enough to make a difference when compared to the Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security entitlements.See: YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy [youtube.com]- If Obama thinks its ok to lie to 300 million people about being able to "take care of them" without even being honest about what that care would look like, then being an idiot and believing in Obama is for you.- The head of the IRS and the head of the Treasury, Timothy Geithner, is a Tax Cheat- Lied about no lobbyists - their numbers are growing within Obama's ranks as he issues exemptions.- The US Government already has over 50\% of the budget spent on Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security.
Socialists: Good job on that one, its working great.
Solution to the current near-collapse-due-to-over-spending: add more unfunded entitlements!
And this is still a "George Bush" budget.
Over half is being spend on Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security.- This man is such a propagandist that he invented "The Office of the President Elect," the seals, the flags, the podium and that forum was all props and the media never once questioned any of it.
It was an invention.
This is the power of Obama, technicalities and rules do not apply.- The Socialist-liars can break my spirit and my financial back to force me to "need" a federal government that is turning this country into a police state and is turning it into a quasi-socialist lie, but I will, I must put up a fight.
I have kids to educate and feed, and the stuff the pseudo-socialist authoritarian Obama sells (which is failing to various degrees everywhere else as implemented) is simply forcing a culture of failure on a once great, libertarian free country.- I will not be complacent with your "change," and there will be a point where civil war will become an option.
See how hard you can push before you get it.
How much more than half can the truly productive workers in this country afford to pay.
Keep pushing to find out how to start a civil war.
The scariest thing about Obamabots is the amount of pleasure they derive from completely defying the US Constitution and giving the government non-enumerated non-extant powers to rule over everyone's quality of life.- The socialist-lie of a plan will not work, its not fundable, it will destroy the currency to fund it, and its really as simple as this: if this insanity is funded by borrowing from the US's economic and military adversaries then Obama and his socialist cabal is not fit to administrate society.
Rome fell.
Kings who mis-manged their treasuries all fell.
Every example of unhinged spending leads to the same result: systemic collapse.- Obama and his sycophantic lunatics would want to have a civil war to get Obama's way and force the socialist-lie system on my already tax paying law abiding ass.
And as far as "no new taxes" for those under 250k, its a lie, the tax is called inflation, which is set to begin just about now that the Chinese wont want the USA's worthless treasuries to fund the socialist-lie fantasy (one that COMMUNIST China doesn't even try and sell to its people!
) Also, what Obama fails to mention is the states are now compelled to implement his new rules, and to follow the rules the states must raise taxes.
Obama may not tax those under 250k, but every last one of the 50 states will.- Barack Obama's numbers don't add up.
There is a $59 trillion dollar hole (UFDO) in social security alone.
AIG $150 billion here, TARP $350 billion there.
$800 billion for a highly dubious pork laden stimulus package.
Another one on the way.
$59 trillion hole in the balance sheet IGNORED.
China saying they aren't going to buy treasuries, calling for new reserve currencies, Clinton clamoring to find buyers now.
$3.6 trillion dollar budget, potential military action on Mexico, Iran still a "terrorist state" at the behest of the AIPAC, spending up, dollar about to fall, inflation over time since Breton Woods extremely easy to document, yet, the socialist-liars question when the numbers (the Federal Government numbers) simply don't add up to the point where if the US-GOV was a company it would be insolvent.-How dare the taxpayers question what Barack Obama's drastic spending increases are going to do to the purchasing power of our savings because Barack Obama wants to recklessly spend and try to maintain and American empire AND guarantee a standard of living, and Obama doesn't even want to build a single nuclear power plant to do it?
Barack Obama must be a complete and total lunatic moron at best.
He is a man child, akin to Michael Jackson, who does not live in the real world.
This guy has turned the White House into a Neverland Ranch.- Obama is either a negligent idiot or an unhinged maniac with delusional fantasies.
Meanwhile, Obama's tax dodging Treasury Secretary has 17 unfilled positions, the Treasury Dept.
isn't even functioning at this point while the rest of the world steadily loses faith in one of the two things that makes the USA relevant in the world at all: the dollar as a "hard" or reserve currency and the US military.- "General welfare" in the constitution was, according to the man who wrote it, Madison, meant to be extremely limited in scope.
The federal government per the constitution doesn't even have the enumerated POWER to deal with economic messes.
A lot of these "POWERS" were created while there is a crisis to dupe the public into accepting an un-constitutional authoritarian regime as the government and to usurp authority over the people.- The USA is a constitutional republic.
A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting to eat a sheep.
Also a constitutional republic isn't about using a barely-majority or a plurality to stuff your (un-fundable disastrous) crap down the disenfranchised other-half's throat.- With Obama's authoritarian corrupted criminal (aiding and abetting a criminal in flight of prosecution, Rich case) Eric Holder in charge, we won't have our inalienable and enumerated rights to firearms much longer.
For a constitutional law expert, Obama must have never read the federalist papers or he would simply hand himself as a traitor.
Already there is talk of banning firearms to help Mexico's fight against the cartels.
What they fail to mention is the firearms that are being used there are Mexican Military firearms being used by those who defected from the Mexican Army into the cartels directly!
The firearms in question were sold to the Mexican military, over 170,000 soldiers are gone with the guns.
And now the US citizens have to give up inalienable and enumerated rights?
This is insanity.- The arbitrary expansion of "general welfare" is not only unconstitutional, it may very well lead to a serious conflict on the issue.- Here is a debate on general welfare and how stuff like this came to pass, but was clearly no intended by the authors of the document of root law.In Federalist No.
41, James Madison asked rhetorically: "For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power?
" (In reference to the general welfare clause)So strongly did the founders believe that "general welfare" wouldn't be expanded as written:In Federalist No.
84, Alexander Hamilton indirectly confirmed Madison's point.
(That the "general welfare" clause was "clearly" not a free pass for government)Hamilton argued that a bill of rights, which many were clamoring for, would be not only unnecessary, but dangerous.
Since the federal government was given only a few specific powers, there was no need to add prohibitions: it was implicitly prohibited by the listed powers.
If a proposed law a relief act, for instance wasn't covered by any of these powers, it was unconstitutional.
"why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?
Why, for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed?
"Hamilton goes on to argue that making Amendments (e.g., enumerating Free speech, press and assembly) and enumerating the 'right' would have the following effect:(A bill of rights) "would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power that is, a power to regulate the press, short of actually shutting it down.
""With respect to the words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them.
To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.
" --James Madison [The US Supreme Court has found the meaning of "general welfare" in the Constitution to be much more elastic than did Mr. Madison. But as the "author of the Constitution," what does he know?
]James Madison, when asked if the "general welfare" clause was a grant of power, replied in 1792, in a letter to Henry Lee,
        If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once.
"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government , and to provide new Guards for their future security.
...--The Declaration of Independence- Monetizing failures causes more.
Japan showed us this for decades.
But hey, Barack Obama is actually dumb enough to think you can fix a problem DECADES in the making with a quick fixer-upper.
He is screwed in the head or, more likely, lying to the American public to quickly get done the things he wants to get done before he gets thrown out on his ass.- The complaints are with the Federal government (in general) since Breton Woods.
The Federal Government and Obama's minions STILL didn't listen to David Walker, a Clinton appointee and former head of the GAO.
This isn't about political parties anymore- its about spending the future to the point where today collapses.
History is replete with examples of fiat currencies and deficit spending leading to collapse.- Show me a single federal budget that was less than the previous.
If this $3.6T budget goes, it is never coming back barring systemic collapse.
The only President to ever see the US Public Debt at $0 dollars is Andrew Jackson.- The United States Federal Government, The United States Federal Reserve, and the banks which were enabled to continue down reckless paths by a quasi government agency known as the Federal Reserve whose actions are not subject to congress and whose members are unelected.
This situation is untenable and unconstitutional.- Every inflationary road taken in history ends in collapse.
Keynesian policies are widely regarded as no longer workable.
And while Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, David Walker, Nouriel Roubini, Warren Buffet and Jim Rodgers warn about or predict all the failures, people still refuse to listen to the possibility that the US economy may contract for many years, and spending at these levels is something that can give way to a collapse.- Inflation is a tax: What ignorant tax and spenders don't take into account here is the relative percentages of people's wealth (both net and gross) and the costs of owning and maintaining houses, cars, standards of living.- Inflation via deficit spending is going to make it such that you will be paying a lot more by percentage of your income to maintain a given standard of living.
Obama's arguments are so poorly thought out and seek to blame "Republicans" for the mess, its really simply laughable - this unhinged budgeting and currency management crisis needs cleanup now, not worsening.- You can't spend your way out of a hole if the creditors (e.g.
China) start telling the USA they won't buy.
It is that simple.
Now America starts to have to collateralize the debt with assets.
The USA will be selling off chunks of American assets to back the new debt.
One day, it may even be necessary to sell Alaska back to Russia because no one will take greenbacks to prop up a failing version of a modern Rome.- Ah, here we go with the Matthew Lesko arguments.
[lesko.com]Interest rates were on the rise before the government stepped in with free money for everyone (the fine print of course indicate massive strings attached).Other economies, for example, India, have the central rates set to far more reasonable/realistic rates (at the moment ~ 8+\%), which is still tends to be too low, but shows that if you need someone else capital you need to pay a premium for it, and given that capital is in short supply, it would stand to reason that a premium must be charged for it.The problem is the unrealistic growth rates of mature economies don't allow for profiting via growth projections (rather than simply earning money).
So the government steps in, turns on the free money spigot, gets the interest rates for savings down in the 1-2\% range while diluting the value of the whole currency in order to prop up dying companies that ran the business like a Madhoff Ponzi scheme.
Ponzi schemes need new money or they cease to exist.
This is why the Federal Reserve is trying to issue more Reserve Notes.
Without this fresh input of printed money, the Ponzi scheme will collapse.- The Republicans aren't solely responsible for the crisis as Obama's minions would have you believe, congress is (no particular congress), the Executive of the US government (no particular one) and the US Federal Reserve System are all at fault.- Fundamentally, the government is trying to fix the prices of various things to "make it all work.
" This pulling on the invisible hand is a fools venture.
It was predicted long ago the housing collapse (and those, such as myself, in the know, wished while realizing the housing collapse coming that we were wrong for everyone's sake - but the truth is the truth) .
It may be that the Austrian (von Mises) economists will ultimately be proven right.- We are a nation of partially educated whiney grabby idiots, and we got the government that represents this.
The Chinese, India and other up and coming nations will show no mercy for this arrogant abuse of our status as the world's forex reserves.- War and asset sales will continue to be the only option for this scheme until it is corrected at the core.
And to say that the government has already averted a depression by doing what they did (most of the monies injected wont be "felt" for some time), is just arrogance and stupidity.
Price fixing prolonged the Great Depression.
Price-fixing (or attempting to) houses will do the same, but probably worse.- Obama's minions simply don't care if the US is bankrupted and rendered insolvent, they just want a say in how its done, presumably to "feel safe.
" Rather selfish.
        "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
" AND "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
" -- Benjamin Franklin (Possibly Richard Jackson)- Everyone better realize that inflation will pay a major role in funding un-fundable fantasies, wiping the savers and the middle class out.
The problem is, that other countries are growing tired of making our Federal Reserve notes worth something by buying our debt as treasuries.
Obama's minions talk about spending, but in order to "get what YOU want" you will sell debt to potential economic and military adversaries?
Real bright.
What's really sad is that despite David Walker being an authority on these issues, people refuse to even watch him and listen to what he is saying.
Instead of seeing the truth and the bottom line of the unfunded debt obligations, they want HOPE and CHANGE, which are simply concepts which the foolish change into their own personal hopes and changes, but Obama never bothered to outline what to hope for exactly or what he will be changing.- We have a fraud, a huckster, an empty suit for a President, a Community Organizer.
This man does not have the ability to formulate an original thought, or to command action.
He is a know nothing that lives in a pretend world just like Michael Jackson ensconced himself in Neverland ranch, he will hide behind those who surround him, which happen to be incompetent people who have no compunction about spending the country into oblivion to achieve personal agendas.- On the success of Canada and its form of Socialism: A huge country like Canada with massive amounts of uranium and tar sands and natural resources and a huge land mass with a scant 30 million people is an order of magnitude less of a problem to manage than a country with 10x its population, a serious leaky southern border, backfiring aggressive foreign policy, particularly with Iran, and the US is competing with countries like India and China whose middle classes are larger than the US's entire population.
The top 5 students in every Indian and Chinese primary school out numbers all the kids in primary school in the US.
Canada is a idyllic island, the USA is front and center in an all out economic and political clash of ideologies.- Cap and trade (and pollution control for solving global problems) will never work unless the top 10 countries in the world (in terms of GDP, manufacturing capacity and population) are on board.
Period. end.
If the world doesn't quickly move to nuclear now and fusion shortly, it is over.
Possibly not if every home on the planet gets a wind vane, but that seems unlikely to happen (since its possible now).- Keynes calls it "the paradox of thrift" and suggested that policies forcing people not to save is a "good idea.
" The guy wanted people spending all the time, or if he didn't, he never conveyed that to his protÃ©gÃ©s well enough for them to not do what they are doing.
Right now the plebeians in the US are actually stashing cash, and everyone from Obama to the media is trying to get people to spend spend spend.
The best thing for the long term is for people to prepare for the coming hell, not set out with no reserves.- I have seen Keynes invoked to justify nearly every bad move in the past decade, and its warming up to be a potential currency collapse, the collapse of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve notes, and a collapse of the NYSE.
And then they invoke Keynes to suggest the best way out of the mess is to spend out of an already near-critically debt massed black hole.- A house is run like a town is run like a country or business is run like a state is run like a government.
If there are things the government is doing that would either force your home into bankruptcy or into jail via fraud charges, then the government and banks shouldn't be operating in that fashion.
A certain degree of stretchy liquidity is in order, but in terms of percent of GDP, there is no way of justifying what they US has now.- Iceland failed at 850 percent debt to GDP.
The US is at 350 and rising.
It is not a good thing at all.- What is happening to the dollar as a forex standard.
[youtube.com]- March 19, 2009 C-SPAN - "Let's Quit Destroying Our Dollar!
" [youtube.com]- HR 1207 (A bill to make the Fed more accountable and to answer questions regarding the dollar policy) [loc.gov]Title: Obama sidetracked by fiscal mess, but presses on [yahoo.com]"Being heard above the din may prove difficult.
Lawmakers are wrangl
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414059</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer</title>
	<author>NewYorkCountryLawyer</author>
	<datestamp>1245582720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Tough luck on the verdict, USA. I am laughing at you.</p></div><p>You and everyone else in the world who knows about this.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tough luck on the verdict , USA .
I am laughing at you.You and everyone else in the world who knows about this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tough luck on the verdict, USA.
I am laughing at you.You and everyone else in the world who knows about this.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412609</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28418661</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't a parallel universe, sadly</title>
	<author>Alan R Light</author>
	<datestamp>1245665640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree about the cruelty inherent in the U.S. legal system, and in fact in U.S. culture.  Unfortunately, telling Americans to grow a backbone will not help, as many Americans are convinced that it is only <i>because</i> they have backbones and love God that they can be sufficiently cruel to those whom they suspect of doing wrong, or at least of having done something they don't quite understand so it must have been very bad.

</p><p>Trying to reason with these people is pointless, because after all they have been educated in American schools, which for the last 100 years have been actively involved in retarding intellectual growth.  (This is absolutely true - the people who set up the system even wrote books about how they were going to prevent the children of the lower classes from becoming doctors and lawyers because there were already plenty of those.)  Any reasoned argument is met with furrowed eyebrows and looks of suspicion, and the more "righteous" they are, the quicker you'd best walk away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree about the cruelty inherent in the U.S. legal system , and in fact in U.S. culture. Unfortunately , telling Americans to grow a backbone will not help , as many Americans are convinced that it is only because they have backbones and love God that they can be sufficiently cruel to those whom they suspect of doing wrong , or at least of having done something they do n't quite understand so it must have been very bad .
Trying to reason with these people is pointless , because after all they have been educated in American schools , which for the last 100 years have been actively involved in retarding intellectual growth .
( This is absolutely true - the people who set up the system even wrote books about how they were going to prevent the children of the lower classes from becoming doctors and lawyers because there were already plenty of those .
) Any reasoned argument is met with furrowed eyebrows and looks of suspicion , and the more " righteous " they are , the quicker you 'd best walk away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree about the cruelty inherent in the U.S. legal system, and in fact in U.S. culture.  Unfortunately, telling Americans to grow a backbone will not help, as many Americans are convinced that it is only because they have backbones and love God that they can be sufficiently cruel to those whom they suspect of doing wrong, or at least of having done something they don't quite understand so it must have been very bad.
Trying to reason with these people is pointless, because after all they have been educated in American schools, which for the last 100 years have been actively involved in retarding intellectual growth.
(This is absolutely true - the people who set up the system even wrote books about how they were going to prevent the children of the lower classes from becoming doctors and lawyers because there were already plenty of those.
)  Any reasoned argument is met with furrowed eyebrows and looks of suspicion, and the more "righteous" they are, the quicker you'd best walk away.</sentencetext>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28415171</id>
	<title>Bot.NET(tm) to the aRes-que?</title>
	<author>ae1294</author>
	<datestamp>1245593160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><b>$2 Million for 24 songs? Well OK if you wanna fight dirty then the time has come for the Bot.NET lords of Cobol to unite!</b></p><p>Step 1. Take existing <b>bot.net</b> code and add <i>$p2pflavor$</i> modded to start in das hidden mode.<br>Step 2. Have it set to automatically download mp3s, kiddie porn, <i>$threatoftheweek$</i> via <b>RSS</b> feed from the <i>$piratebay$</i>.<br>Step 3. <b>Distribute</b> to the pleebs via normal bot.net methods, all of hem damn methods.<br>Step 4. Pleebs now automatically download <b>da goods</b> and become <b>evil</b> seed servers.<br>Step 5. Watch RIAA sue all of the <b>earths</b> pleebs in a massive stoke off.<br>Step 6. Watch all governments outlaw the <b>internet</b>.<br>Step 7. <b>Watch</b> all of the earths pleebs get really pissed off.<br>Step 8. Watch pleebs with guns run a muck in the great <b>pleeb revolt</b> of 2012.<br>Step 9. <b>Self</b> invented new defense, My system had that damn <b>virus</b> your Honor.<br>Step 0. No <b>Profit</b> for dem guys!</p><p>I now leave you to move into my underground lair so I can work on those sharks with freaking lasers baby!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>$ 2 Million for 24 songs ?
Well OK if you wan na fight dirty then the time has come for the Bot.NET lords of Cobol to unite ! Step 1 .
Take existing bot.net code and add $ p2pflavor $ modded to start in das hidden mode.Step 2 .
Have it set to automatically download mp3s , kiddie porn , $ threatoftheweek $ via RSS feed from the $ piratebay $ .Step 3 .
Distribute to the pleebs via normal bot.net methods , all of hem damn methods.Step 4 .
Pleebs now automatically download da goods and become evil seed servers.Step 5 .
Watch RIAA sue all of the earths pleebs in a massive stoke off.Step 6 .
Watch all governments outlaw the internet.Step 7 .
Watch all of the earths pleebs get really pissed off.Step 8 .
Watch pleebs with guns run a muck in the great pleeb revolt of 2012.Step 9 .
Self invented new defense , My system had that damn virus your Honor.Step 0 .
No Profit for dem guys ! I now leave you to move into my underground lair so I can work on those sharks with freaking lasers baby !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>$2 Million for 24 songs?
Well OK if you wanna fight dirty then the time has come for the Bot.NET lords of Cobol to unite!Step 1.
Take existing bot.net code and add $p2pflavor$ modded to start in das hidden mode.Step 2.
Have it set to automatically download mp3s, kiddie porn, $threatoftheweek$ via RSS feed from the $piratebay$.Step 3.
Distribute to the pleebs via normal bot.net methods, all of hem damn methods.Step 4.
Pleebs now automatically download da goods and become evil seed servers.Step 5.
Watch RIAA sue all of the earths pleebs in a massive stoke off.Step 6.
Watch all governments outlaw the internet.Step 7.
Watch all of the earths pleebs get really pissed off.Step 8.
Watch pleebs with guns run a muck in the great pleeb revolt of 2012.Step 9.
Self invented new defense, My system had that damn virus your Honor.Step 0.
No Profit for dem guys!I now leave you to move into my underground lair so I can work on those sharks with freaking lasers baby!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412591</id>
	<title>NYCL?  Why not take up the cause directly?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245614160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am sure I am not alone in wondering why NYCL hasn't taken up the cause directly.  It is a problem of venue or being licensed somewhere specific?  If the case could be won "easily" then I have to wonder why it isn't being done?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am sure I am not alone in wondering why NYCL has n't taken up the cause directly .
It is a problem of venue or being licensed somewhere specific ?
If the case could be won " easily " then I have to wonder why it is n't being done ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am sure I am not alone in wondering why NYCL hasn't taken up the cause directly.
It is a problem of venue or being licensed somewhere specific?
If the case could be won "easily" then I have to wonder why it isn't being done?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28416065</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense</title>
	<author>lightversusdark</author>
	<datestamp>1245601260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mod it up. Get it to +6. This is the most Insightful post for a long time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod it up .
Get it to + 6 .
This is the most Insightful post for a long time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod it up.
Get it to +6.
This is the most Insightful post for a long time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412285</id>
	<title>Slashdot Tag Racism</title>
	<author>anagama</author>
	<datestamp>1245612000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu187/weirdslashjunk/tagracism.png?t=1245608323" title="photobucket.com">http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu187/weirdslashjunk/tagracism.png?t=1245608323</a> [photobucket.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu187/weirdslashjunk/tagracism.png ? t = 1245608323 [ photobucket.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu187/weirdslashjunk/tagracism.png?t=1245608323 [photobucket.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28415817</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245599520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How does this jury award compare to the actual annual revenue recieved from these works?</p></div><p>The jury award would be much, much higher. That's why they're called punitive damages.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How does this jury award compare to the actual annual revenue recieved from these works ? The jury award would be much , much higher .
That 's why they 're called punitive damages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How does this jury award compare to the actual annual revenue recieved from these works?The jury award would be much, much higher.
That's why they're called punitive damages.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412075</id>
	<title>Real world?</title>
	<author>SailorSpork</author>
	<datestamp>1245610560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While it may be depressing about the RIAA getting away with it's imaginary world crap, it is good to see that, for everyone else, ridiculous claims are generally seen as such in the court of law.  It's good to get some of that perspective back on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.; now all we need to do is figure out a way to snap the RIAA and it's litigation machine back into the real world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While it may be depressing about the RIAA getting away with it 's imaginary world crap , it is good to see that , for everyone else , ridiculous claims are generally seen as such in the court of law .
It 's good to get some of that perspective back on / .
; now all we need to do is figure out a way to snap the RIAA and it 's litigation machine back into the real world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While it may be depressing about the RIAA getting away with it's imaginary world crap, it is good to see that, for everyone else, ridiculous claims are generally seen as such in the court of law.
It's good to get some of that perspective back on /.
; now all we need to do is figure out a way to snap the RIAA and it's litigation machine back into the real world.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28415301</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense</title>
	<author>Nullan Voyd</author>
	<datestamp>1245594240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sadly, true.  The rules of a civil case prevail.  As a crimninal case, the penalties might have been much less, at least as far as the $$ is concerned.  Did she make any money? Maybe, but enough to make it a felony?  I doubt it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sadly , true .
The rules of a civil case prevail .
As a crimninal case , the penalties might have been much less , at least as far as the $ $ is concerned .
Did she make any money ?
Maybe , but enough to make it a felony ?
I doubt it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sadly, true.
The rules of a civil case prevail.
As a crimninal case, the penalties might have been much less, at least as far as the $$ is concerned.
Did she make any money?
Maybe, but enough to make it a felony?
I doubt it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412037</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413615</id>
	<title>Re:If you're on a jury for cases like this, NULLIF</title>
	<author>Kyaphas</author>
	<datestamp>1245579120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you know enough to nullify it, odds are extremely good that you'll be dismissed during the selection process. As much as we here on slashdot love to poke fun at lawyers, they're usually pretty smart, and will pick a jury they feel will get them the verdict they desire.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you know enough to nullify it , odds are extremely good that you 'll be dismissed during the selection process .
As much as we here on slashdot love to poke fun at lawyers , they 're usually pretty smart , and will pick a jury they feel will get them the verdict they desire .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you know enough to nullify it, odds are extremely good that you'll be dismissed during the selection process.
As much as we here on slashdot love to poke fun at lawyers, they're usually pretty smart, and will pick a jury they feel will get them the verdict they desire.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412097</id>
	<title>Just in...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245610680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><b>It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying</b> </p><p>One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming close on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.</p><p>You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.</p><p>FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93\% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.</p><p>Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.</p><p>OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.</p><p>Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.</p><p>All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a cockeyed miracle could save *BSD from its fate at this point in time. For all practical purposes,</p><p>*BSD is dead.</p><p>Fact: *BSD is dying</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is official ; Netcraft now confirms : * BSD is dying One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered * BSD community when IDC confirmed that * BSD market share has dropped yet again , now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers .
Coming close on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that * BSD has lost more market share , this news serves to reinforce what we 've known all along .
* BSD is collapsing in complete disarray , as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.You do n't need to be a Kreskin to predict * BSD 's future .
The hand writing is on the wall : * BSD faces a bleak future .
In fact there wo n't be any future at all for * BSD because * BSD is dying .
Things are looking very bad for * BSD .
As many of us are already aware , * BSD continues to lose market share .
Red ink flows like a river of blood.FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all , having lost 93 \ % of its core developers .
The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly .
There can no longer be any doubt : FreeBSD is dying.Let 's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD .
How many users of NetBSD are there ?
Let 's see .
The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1 .
Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users .
BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts .
Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS .
A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the * BSD market .
Therefore there are ( 7000 + 1400 + 700 ) * 4 = 36400 FreeBSD users .
This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek , abysmal sales and so on , FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS .
Now BSDI is also dead , its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.All major surveys show that * BSD has steadily declined in market share .
* BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim .
If * BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers .
* BSD continues to decay .
Nothing short of a cockeyed miracle could save * BSD from its fate at this point in time .
For all practical purposes , * BSD is dead.Fact : * BSD is dying</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers.
Coming close on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along.
*BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future.
The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future.
In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying.
Things are looking very bad for *BSD.
As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share.
Red ink flows like a river of blood.FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93\% of its core developers.
The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly.
There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD.
How many users of NetBSD are there?
Let's see.
The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1.
Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users.
BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts.
Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS.
A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market.
Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users.
This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS.
Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share.
*BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim.
If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers.
*BSD continues to decay.
Nothing short of a cockeyed miracle could save *BSD from its fate at this point in time.
For all practical purposes,*BSD is dead.Fact: *BSD is dying</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28416235</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't a parallel universe, sadly</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245602160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is that the country is run by lawyers.</p><p>They make the rules.  They enforce the rules.  They twist the rules to their own ends.</p><p>Really, the whole system is corrupt, does not work and should be replaced.</p><p>Will never happen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that the country is run by lawyers.They make the rules .
They enforce the rules .
They twist the rules to their own ends.Really , the whole system is corrupt , does not work and should be replaced.Will never happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that the country is run by lawyers.They make the rules.
They enforce the rules.
They twist the rules to their own ends.Really, the whole system is corrupt, does not work and should be replaced.Will never happen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412557</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28419017</id>
	<title>Did the RIAA prove its case?</title>
	<author>scottFuz</author>
	<datestamp>1245668880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I followed the story on ARS and I still have questions about this case.<br>The biggest is the ex-boyfriend's involvement. It may have been Thomas-Rasset's computer, but could the RIAA prove she actually installed KaZaa? Sure, the original HDD was toasted and this may be a mute point. However,...the question lingers in my mind.</p><p>One of the defence arguments was that the original CD-files were in wma-format while the "infringed" files were mp3. I've known other software that will "scan" a drive looking for similar/same files so as to make them available when the user runs the program. Does/Did KaZaa scan for wma files? Could it be conceivable that Thomas-Rasset had "ripped" CD's for her personal use (an argument made by some game users wanting to protect their purchase of the CD from loss), yet when KaZaa was installed, these files were then infringed?</p><p>I would like to read some discussion on this point.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I followed the story on ARS and I still have questions about this case.The biggest is the ex-boyfriend 's involvement .
It may have been Thomas-Rasset 's computer , but could the RIAA prove she actually installed KaZaa ?
Sure , the original HDD was toasted and this may be a mute point .
However,...the question lingers in my mind.One of the defence arguments was that the original CD-files were in wma-format while the " infringed " files were mp3 .
I 've known other software that will " scan " a drive looking for similar/same files so as to make them available when the user runs the program .
Does/Did KaZaa scan for wma files ?
Could it be conceivable that Thomas-Rasset had " ripped " CD 's for her personal use ( an argument made by some game users wanting to protect their purchase of the CD from loss ) , yet when KaZaa was installed , these files were then infringed ? I would like to read some discussion on this point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I followed the story on ARS and I still have questions about this case.The biggest is the ex-boyfriend's involvement.
It may have been Thomas-Rasset's computer, but could the RIAA prove she actually installed KaZaa?
Sure, the original HDD was toasted and this may be a mute point.
However,...the question lingers in my mind.One of the defence arguments was that the original CD-files were in wma-format while the "infringed" files were mp3.
I've known other software that will "scan" a drive looking for similar/same files so as to make them available when the user runs the program.
Does/Did KaZaa scan for wma files?
Could it be conceivable that Thomas-Rasset had "ripped" CD's for her personal use (an argument made by some game users wanting to protect their purchase of the CD from loss), yet when KaZaa was installed, these files were then infringed?I would like to read some discussion on this point.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28418463</id>
	<title>But it should not be</title>
	<author>Kupfernigk</author>
	<datestamp>1245663840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The penalty for perjury should in no way be connected to the penalty for the actual case. One is a criminal offense, the other is civil. If the defendant is shown to have lied under oath, there should be a separate trial.<p>Having said this, in the UK a judge in a civil trial would be more likely just to rule that as the defendant had lied under oath, the weight of the other evidence for the defendant should be largely discounted.</p><p>It's the American concept of punitive damages that is wrong. It's a kind of lynch law. The question should be, why do the US courts and juries have this demented desire to punish in civil trials, rather than award what is just? Did the US judicial system (which is based in English common law) fail to adopt the bit about justice and equity?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The penalty for perjury should in no way be connected to the penalty for the actual case .
One is a criminal offense , the other is civil .
If the defendant is shown to have lied under oath , there should be a separate trial.Having said this , in the UK a judge in a civil trial would be more likely just to rule that as the defendant had lied under oath , the weight of the other evidence for the defendant should be largely discounted.It 's the American concept of punitive damages that is wrong .
It 's a kind of lynch law .
The question should be , why do the US courts and juries have this demented desire to punish in civil trials , rather than award what is just ?
Did the US judicial system ( which is based in English common law ) fail to adopt the bit about justice and equity ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The penalty for perjury should in no way be connected to the penalty for the actual case.
One is a criminal offense, the other is civil.
If the defendant is shown to have lied under oath, there should be a separate trial.Having said this, in the UK a judge in a civil trial would be more likely just to rule that as the defendant had lied under oath, the weight of the other evidence for the defendant should be largely discounted.It's the American concept of punitive damages that is wrong.
It's a kind of lynch law.
The question should be, why do the US courts and juries have this demented desire to punish in civil trials, rather than award what is just?
Did the US judicial system (which is based in English common law) fail to adopt the bit about justice and equity?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412695</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28423659</id>
	<title>Re:A fix for the world economy</title>
	<author>Idiomatick</author>
	<datestamp>1245690540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Taking anime into account (I started fansubbing groups which have sent out millions of copies of episodes). I had caused over 500billion dollars in copyright infringement by age 16. By my 30th birthday I think i'll be nearing 10trillion in damages. If you compare this to gdp it puts me around 16th place (by country)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... except all negative values. I bet if I worked really hard at it like a full time job I could overtake the entire planets income in damages. Hell if you want to charge TPB for 8,0000$ of the things transferred on their trackers you reach an amazing 45quadrillion dollars in damages per year. (10x the worlds combined gdp).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Taking anime into account ( I started fansubbing groups which have sent out millions of copies of episodes ) .
I had caused over 500billion dollars in copyright infringement by age 16 .
By my 30th birthday I think i 'll be nearing 10trillion in damages .
If you compare this to gdp it puts me around 16th place ( by country ) ... except all negative values .
I bet if I worked really hard at it like a full time job I could overtake the entire planets income in damages .
Hell if you want to charge TPB for 8,0000 $ of the things transferred on their trackers you reach an amazing 45quadrillion dollars in damages per year .
( 10x the worlds combined gdp ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Taking anime into account (I started fansubbing groups which have sent out millions of copies of episodes).
I had caused over 500billion dollars in copyright infringement by age 16.
By my 30th birthday I think i'll be nearing 10trillion in damages.
If you compare this to gdp it puts me around 16th place (by country) ... except all negative values.
I bet if I worked really hard at it like a full time job I could overtake the entire planets income in damages.
Hell if you want to charge TPB for 8,0000$ of the things transferred on their trackers you reach an amazing 45quadrillion dollars in damages per year.
(10x the worlds combined gdp).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413071</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414023</id>
	<title>Re:Monday morning quarterbacking</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1245582420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yup, NewYorkCountryLawyer is a real expert at calling the shots three days after they've been made.  We need a new "IANASL" tag: I Am Not A <em>Significant</em> Lawyer.

</p><p>If NYCL were a lawyer of <em>substance</em> then he'd be too busy laywering, rather than taking the time (and apparently having the need) to promote himself on Slashdot.  Those who can, do.  Those who can't, well, they either teach, or focus on their marketing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yup , NewYorkCountryLawyer is a real expert at calling the shots three days after they 've been made .
We need a new " IANASL " tag : I Am Not A Significant Lawyer .
If NYCL were a lawyer of substance then he 'd be too busy laywering , rather than taking the time ( and apparently having the need ) to promote himself on Slashdot .
Those who can , do .
Those who ca n't , well , they either teach , or focus on their marketing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yup, NewYorkCountryLawyer is a real expert at calling the shots three days after they've been made.
We need a new "IANASL" tag: I Am Not A Significant Lawyer.
If NYCL were a lawyer of substance then he'd be too busy laywering, rather than taking the time (and apparently having the need) to promote himself on Slashdot.
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, well, they either teach, or focus on their marketing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412723</id>
	<title>Re:Are the songs really worth that much?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245615420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny thing, I don't know about $1.92 mil, but you'd have to pay me at least $192 to LISTEN to that shitty playlist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny thing , I do n't know about $ 1.92 mil , but you 'd have to pay me at least $ 192 to LISTEN to that shitty playlist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny thing, I don't know about $1.92 mil, but you'd have to pay me at least $192 to LISTEN to that shitty playlist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412179</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28417185</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA</title>
	<author>Turiko</author>
	<datestamp>1245609120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Honestly, what would this achieve? Then the RIAA would either just sue more people and get their money or ask for a lot more money per person they sue. Neither of them are good. With the millions they can get in a single lawsuit, i think they realised how much money they can get from their ways.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Honestly , what would this achieve ?
Then the RIAA would either just sue more people and get their money or ask for a lot more money per person they sue .
Neither of them are good .
With the millions they can get in a single lawsuit , i think they realised how much money they can get from their ways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honestly, what would this achieve?
Then the RIAA would either just sue more people and get their money or ask for a lot more money per person they sue.
Neither of them are good.
With the millions they can get in a single lawsuit, i think they realised how much money they can get from their ways.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413539</id>
	<title>Re:I guess we've all learned a lesson...</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1245578460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm honestly waiting for the first to follow this train of thought:</p><p>1) My life is ruined.<br>2) I have a gun.<br>3) I know where that company that ruined my life has its headquarters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm honestly waiting for the first to follow this train of thought : 1 ) My life is ruined.2 ) I have a gun.3 ) I know where that company that ruined my life has its headquarters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm honestly waiting for the first to follow this train of thought:1) My life is ruined.2) I have a gun.3) I know where that company that ruined my life has its headquarters.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412821</id>
	<title>Re:Are the songs really worth that much?</title>
	<author>NicknamesAreStupid</author>
	<datestamp>1245616260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Outside of an actual transaction, the value of anything is nebulous.  Obviously, some things such as commodities that are actively traded can be more accurately estimated in the short-term.  However, if you change the trading space, the price can go anywhere.  The RIAA arguments are based on one trading space (where a song is on a CD that retails for ~$10), a defense lawyer might argue for an online trading space where most songs are free or at most a dollar.  For something with tangible intrinsic value, such as a baseball, this might be a sound basis.  But for intellectual property that can either be "downloaded and deleted" like song on the radio, or "downloaded and distributed"  like iTunes, the 'potential' value could range from zero to infinity.<br> <br>
This is actually a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" problem.  If there were no RIAA, then artists might realize little from the digital distribution of their work.  If this happened, and it could, then the news would be full of stories about artists who are victims of a society that exploits their efforts.  The press would hype this up in a feeding frenzy -- "artist XXX starves to death while her songs 'top the charts'."  If that sounds crazy, then you obviously have never seen Fox News or even CNN.<br> <br>
So, what can be done about it?  This falls into the same conundrum category as abortion, Palestine, and anything else where two side can be right about the wrong thing.  I suspect that Dante couldn't muster the courage to write about it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Outside of an actual transaction , the value of anything is nebulous .
Obviously , some things such as commodities that are actively traded can be more accurately estimated in the short-term .
However , if you change the trading space , the price can go anywhere .
The RIAA arguments are based on one trading space ( where a song is on a CD that retails for ~ $ 10 ) , a defense lawyer might argue for an online trading space where most songs are free or at most a dollar .
For something with tangible intrinsic value , such as a baseball , this might be a sound basis .
But for intellectual property that can either be " downloaded and deleted " like song on the radio , or " downloaded and distributed " like iTunes , the 'potential ' value could range from zero to infinity .
This is actually a " damned if you do and damned if you do n't " problem .
If there were no RIAA , then artists might realize little from the digital distribution of their work .
If this happened , and it could , then the news would be full of stories about artists who are victims of a society that exploits their efforts .
The press would hype this up in a feeding frenzy -- " artist XXX starves to death while her songs 'top the charts' .
" If that sounds crazy , then you obviously have never seen Fox News or even CNN .
So , what can be done about it ?
This falls into the same conundrum category as abortion , Palestine , and anything else where two side can be right about the wrong thing .
I suspect that Dante could n't muster the courage to write about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Outside of an actual transaction, the value of anything is nebulous.
Obviously, some things such as commodities that are actively traded can be more accurately estimated in the short-term.
However, if you change the trading space, the price can go anywhere.
The RIAA arguments are based on one trading space (where a song is on a CD that retails for ~$10), a defense lawyer might argue for an online trading space where most songs are free or at most a dollar.
For something with tangible intrinsic value, such as a baseball, this might be a sound basis.
But for intellectual property that can either be "downloaded and deleted" like song on the radio, or "downloaded and distributed"  like iTunes, the 'potential' value could range from zero to infinity.
This is actually a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" problem.
If there were no RIAA, then artists might realize little from the digital distribution of their work.
If this happened, and it could, then the news would be full of stories about artists who are victims of a society that exploits their efforts.
The press would hype this up in a feeding frenzy -- "artist XXX starves to death while her songs 'top the charts'.
"  If that sounds crazy, then you obviously have never seen Fox News or even CNN.
So, what can be done about it?
This falls into the same conundrum category as abortion, Palestine, and anything else where two side can be right about the wrong thing.
I suspect that Dante couldn't muster the courage to write about it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412179</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412695</id>
	<title>the perjury factor</title>
	<author>fishbowl</author>
	<datestamp>1245615240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did this country lawyer's client create the impression that he or she was lying to a jury?  I think we shouldn't ignore that element, because it is probably the most significant single factor that lead to the large judgment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did this country lawyer 's client create the impression that he or she was lying to a jury ?
I think we should n't ignore that element , because it is probably the most significant single factor that lead to the large judgment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did this country lawyer's client create the impression that he or she was lying to a jury?
I think we shouldn't ignore that element, because it is probably the most significant single factor that lead to the large judgment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412221</id>
	<title>Justifying piracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245611640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fellow pirates,</p><p>I implore you to continue your campaign on Slashdot to make me feel less guilty. I know that not paying someone for their work is wrong, but if Slashdot posts enough articles bashing the RIAA/MPAA/copyright law/whatever, it's easier for me to accept what I'm doing emotionally by visualizing someone else as the bad guy. Once on the forefront of relevant IT news, Slashdot is now a lame repository of mainstream pseudoscience links and pro-piracy articles to appease a dwindling readership. I am overjoyed.</p><p>Even though the open source community is about giving back as much as it is taking, I'm just going to take. I'm a human leech with self-serving beliefs and an inability to empathize with content creators who are trying to make a living.</p><p>I don't believe John Carmack should be paid for his work. I'm going to sit on my ass while he spends years coding the next advanced 3D engine from id Software. When their game comes out, I'm going to pirate it without giving a second thought about paying John Carmack for his work. I'm just so used to pirating things now that I take it for granted. If anyone mentions John Carmack to make me feel guilty, I'll look for Slashdot articles that bolster my viewpoint, such as this one [slashdot.org], amusingly posted in the Your Rights Online section even though none of my rights are being violated.</p><p>According to that study, it's okay to not pay people for their work because there's some vague hope that they'll make up the difference in income through "concerts and speaking tours." Artists are now forced to take time out of doing what they want to do. John Carmack must stop programming in order to make money from programming. It's genius. The study does exactly what I need it to--make me feel less guilty when I pirate. We've managed to stretch the truth so far that we're actually telling ourselves that we're helping artists by not paying them for their work. Excellent job.</p><p>I look forward to Slashdot telling me everyday who the bad guys are. Even though Slashdot has sued websites in the past for copyright infringement, and they've pretended to care about plagiarism, we're supposed to go along with Slashdot's anti-copyright agenda. I'm okay with that hypocrisy because it serves me. It makes me feel less guilty when I pirate something. Remember, I'm not the bad guy--the RIAA/MPAA/whatever is. That makes it okay for me to not pay people for their work.</p><p>EULAs and copyright licenses are wrong, yet the GPL is good. Piracy isn't theft, yet GPL violations are referred to as "stolen GPL code." I accept all of these double-standards because it serves me. I pretend not to notice when someone points out that the GPL relies on copyright law, and if I want to get rid of copyright, my beloved open source code will no longer be protected by the GPL. I don't care, because I'm too busy concerning myself with what I want for free, not about the consequences. I want to get rid of copyrights because I've been told that copyrights are the bad guy, and they are an obstacle to my rampant piracy.</p><p>Fellow pirates, let us continue our selfish leeching. Let us paint others as the bad guys to absolve us of our emotional guilt. Our goal is to convince people that piracy is something the good guys are doing in a fight with the evil corporations. Making money is wrong, even though Slashdot displays ads, and it cost me money to buy the computer I'm using to pirate stuff.</p><p>Yours truly,<br>A fellow Slashbot</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fellow pirates,I implore you to continue your campaign on Slashdot to make me feel less guilty .
I know that not paying someone for their work is wrong , but if Slashdot posts enough articles bashing the RIAA/MPAA/copyright law/whatever , it 's easier for me to accept what I 'm doing emotionally by visualizing someone else as the bad guy .
Once on the forefront of relevant IT news , Slashdot is now a lame repository of mainstream pseudoscience links and pro-piracy articles to appease a dwindling readership .
I am overjoyed.Even though the open source community is about giving back as much as it is taking , I 'm just going to take .
I 'm a human leech with self-serving beliefs and an inability to empathize with content creators who are trying to make a living.I do n't believe John Carmack should be paid for his work .
I 'm going to sit on my ass while he spends years coding the next advanced 3D engine from id Software .
When their game comes out , I 'm going to pirate it without giving a second thought about paying John Carmack for his work .
I 'm just so used to pirating things now that I take it for granted .
If anyone mentions John Carmack to make me feel guilty , I 'll look for Slashdot articles that bolster my viewpoint , such as this one [ slashdot.org ] , amusingly posted in the Your Rights Online section even though none of my rights are being violated.According to that study , it 's okay to not pay people for their work because there 's some vague hope that they 'll make up the difference in income through " concerts and speaking tours .
" Artists are now forced to take time out of doing what they want to do .
John Carmack must stop programming in order to make money from programming .
It 's genius .
The study does exactly what I need it to--make me feel less guilty when I pirate .
We 've managed to stretch the truth so far that we 're actually telling ourselves that we 're helping artists by not paying them for their work .
Excellent job.I look forward to Slashdot telling me everyday who the bad guys are .
Even though Slashdot has sued websites in the past for copyright infringement , and they 've pretended to care about plagiarism , we 're supposed to go along with Slashdot 's anti-copyright agenda .
I 'm okay with that hypocrisy because it serves me .
It makes me feel less guilty when I pirate something .
Remember , I 'm not the bad guy--the RIAA/MPAA/whatever is .
That makes it okay for me to not pay people for their work.EULAs and copyright licenses are wrong , yet the GPL is good .
Piracy is n't theft , yet GPL violations are referred to as " stolen GPL code .
" I accept all of these double-standards because it serves me .
I pretend not to notice when someone points out that the GPL relies on copyright law , and if I want to get rid of copyright , my beloved open source code will no longer be protected by the GPL .
I do n't care , because I 'm too busy concerning myself with what I want for free , not about the consequences .
I want to get rid of copyrights because I 've been told that copyrights are the bad guy , and they are an obstacle to my rampant piracy.Fellow pirates , let us continue our selfish leeching .
Let us paint others as the bad guys to absolve us of our emotional guilt .
Our goal is to convince people that piracy is something the good guys are doing in a fight with the evil corporations .
Making money is wrong , even though Slashdot displays ads , and it cost me money to buy the computer I 'm using to pirate stuff.Yours truly,A fellow Slashbot</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fellow pirates,I implore you to continue your campaign on Slashdot to make me feel less guilty.
I know that not paying someone for their work is wrong, but if Slashdot posts enough articles bashing the RIAA/MPAA/copyright law/whatever, it's easier for me to accept what I'm doing emotionally by visualizing someone else as the bad guy.
Once on the forefront of relevant IT news, Slashdot is now a lame repository of mainstream pseudoscience links and pro-piracy articles to appease a dwindling readership.
I am overjoyed.Even though the open source community is about giving back as much as it is taking, I'm just going to take.
I'm a human leech with self-serving beliefs and an inability to empathize with content creators who are trying to make a living.I don't believe John Carmack should be paid for his work.
I'm going to sit on my ass while he spends years coding the next advanced 3D engine from id Software.
When their game comes out, I'm going to pirate it without giving a second thought about paying John Carmack for his work.
I'm just so used to pirating things now that I take it for granted.
If anyone mentions John Carmack to make me feel guilty, I'll look for Slashdot articles that bolster my viewpoint, such as this one [slashdot.org], amusingly posted in the Your Rights Online section even though none of my rights are being violated.According to that study, it's okay to not pay people for their work because there's some vague hope that they'll make up the difference in income through "concerts and speaking tours.
" Artists are now forced to take time out of doing what they want to do.
John Carmack must stop programming in order to make money from programming.
It's genius.
The study does exactly what I need it to--make me feel less guilty when I pirate.
We've managed to stretch the truth so far that we're actually telling ourselves that we're helping artists by not paying them for their work.
Excellent job.I look forward to Slashdot telling me everyday who the bad guys are.
Even though Slashdot has sued websites in the past for copyright infringement, and they've pretended to care about plagiarism, we're supposed to go along with Slashdot's anti-copyright agenda.
I'm okay with that hypocrisy because it serves me.
It makes me feel less guilty when I pirate something.
Remember, I'm not the bad guy--the RIAA/MPAA/whatever is.
That makes it okay for me to not pay people for their work.EULAs and copyright licenses are wrong, yet the GPL is good.
Piracy isn't theft, yet GPL violations are referred to as "stolen GPL code.
" I accept all of these double-standards because it serves me.
I pretend not to notice when someone points out that the GPL relies on copyright law, and if I want to get rid of copyright, my beloved open source code will no longer be protected by the GPL.
I don't care, because I'm too busy concerning myself with what I want for free, not about the consequences.
I want to get rid of copyrights because I've been told that copyrights are the bad guy, and they are an obstacle to my rampant piracy.Fellow pirates, let us continue our selfish leeching.
Let us paint others as the bad guys to absolve us of our emotional guilt.
Our goal is to convince people that piracy is something the good guys are doing in a fight with the evil corporations.
Making money is wrong, even though Slashdot displays ads, and it cost me money to buy the computer I'm using to pirate stuff.Yours truly,A fellow Slashbot</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28417069</id>
	<title>Re:Advertise</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245608100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>As an aside, Could you possibly do your audience a favor and taking soulskill's advice next time and actually involve a clown or two.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As an aside , Could you possibly do your audience a favor and taking soulskill 's advice next time and actually involve a clown or two .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an aside, Could you possibly do your audience a favor and taking soulskill's advice next time and actually involve a clown or two.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414039</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412357</id>
	<title>Re:Are the songs really worth that much?</title>
	<author>santax</author>
	<datestamp>1245612300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A spokesman for the RIAA also didn't understand this. He said they are still willing to settle for less. Didn't mention how much less though. But it's absurd that this verdict ever got spoken out. Really absurd. I don't life in the States, so we don't have a jury here but actual capable people with a degree in law to handle this kind of things, but I feel sorry for the people who do have a jury based trial. And what's the point in taking someone life's away for a couple of songs. We are outraged when people are trialed for being homosexual in Iran and yet - we the sophisticated Western World will hang you by the balls if you dare to listen to a song before you buy the album.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A spokesman for the RIAA also did n't understand this .
He said they are still willing to settle for less .
Did n't mention how much less though .
But it 's absurd that this verdict ever got spoken out .
Really absurd .
I do n't life in the States , so we do n't have a jury here but actual capable people with a degree in law to handle this kind of things , but I feel sorry for the people who do have a jury based trial .
And what 's the point in taking someone life 's away for a couple of songs .
We are outraged when people are trialed for being homosexual in Iran and yet - we the sophisticated Western World will hang you by the balls if you dare to listen to a song before you buy the album .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A spokesman for the RIAA also didn't understand this.
He said they are still willing to settle for less.
Didn't mention how much less though.
But it's absurd that this verdict ever got spoken out.
Really absurd.
I don't life in the States, so we don't have a jury here but actual capable people with a degree in law to handle this kind of things, but I feel sorry for the people who do have a jury based trial.
And what's the point in taking someone life's away for a couple of songs.
We are outraged when people are trialed for being homosexual in Iran and yet - we the sophisticated Western World will hang you by the balls if you dare to listen to a song before you buy the album.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412179</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412333</id>
	<title>Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer</title>
	<author>brit74</author>
	<datestamp>1245612240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer,
  In the "real world", the case would not have been dismissed.  It would've ended with a guilty verdict in small claims court.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer , In the " real world " , the case would not have been dismissed .
It would 've ended with a guilty verdict in small claims court .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer,
  In the "real world", the case would not have been dismissed.
It would've ended with a guilty verdict in small claims court.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412073</id>
	<title>I think you have it backwards</title>
	<author>artor3</author>
	<datestamp>1245610500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The trial took place in the real universe, whether you agree with the outcome or not.  Your fantasy-land in which intellectual property has no value, and clearly guilty people have the cases against them dismissed...  that's the imaginary one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The trial took place in the real universe , whether you agree with the outcome or not .
Your fantasy-land in which intellectual property has no value , and clearly guilty people have the cases against them dismissed... that 's the imaginary one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The trial took place in the real universe, whether you agree with the outcome or not.
Your fantasy-land in which intellectual property has no value, and clearly guilty people have the cases against them dismissed...  that's the imaginary one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414489</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245586560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This sounds good - let's pay them in imaginary money. Hmm, what is the square root of -1.92 million dollars?</p><p>Actually, I get the impression the entire legal system operates in an imaginary world. One where language has not changed since the 18th century, clothing much the same, and nobody else's time matters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This sounds good - let 's pay them in imaginary money .
Hmm , what is the square root of -1.92 million dollars ? Actually , I get the impression the entire legal system operates in an imaginary world .
One where language has not changed since the 18th century , clothing much the same , and nobody else 's time matters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This sounds good - let's pay them in imaginary money.
Hmm, what is the square root of -1.92 million dollars?Actually, I get the impression the entire legal system operates in an imaginary world.
One where language has not changed since the 18th century, clothing much the same, and nobody else's time matters.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412037</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414181</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer</title>
	<author>tkw954</author>
	<datestamp>1245583800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Now, for a practical matter. If a friend from the US comes and visits, and makes copies (or downloads) of music, is she liable for copyright infringement when she returns to the US? Now, further, if she downloads exclusively from me, and yet is resident in the US, is she guilty?</p></div></blockquote><p>
I think another good question is whether it is legal to visit the States as a Canadian with music on your ipod which you legally copied in Canada.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now , for a practical matter .
If a friend from the US comes and visits , and makes copies ( or downloads ) of music , is she liable for copyright infringement when she returns to the US ?
Now , further , if she downloads exclusively from me , and yet is resident in the US , is she guilty ?
I think another good question is whether it is legal to visit the States as a Canadian with music on your ipod which you legally copied in Canada .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now, for a practical matter.
If a friend from the US comes and visits, and makes copies (or downloads) of music, is she liable for copyright infringement when she returns to the US?
Now, further, if she downloads exclusively from me, and yet is resident in the US, is she guilty?
I think another good question is whether it is legal to visit the States as a Canadian with music on your ipod which you legally copied in Canada.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412609</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414345</id>
	<title>Re:Monday morning quarterbacking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245585360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So where did you get your law degree Grond?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So where did you get your law degree Grond ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So where did you get your law degree Grond?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414471</id>
	<title>Re:Are the songs really worth that much?</title>
	<author>nEoN nOoDlE</author>
	<datestamp>1245586380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I put the listing at $1.92 million for the starting bid.</p></div><p>That's your problem right there. You have to put the starting bid a little lower and have people work their way up to $1.92 million. Try starting at $1.5 mil.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I put the listing at $ 1.92 million for the starting bid.That 's your problem right there .
You have to put the starting bid a little lower and have people work their way up to $ 1.92 million .
Try starting at $ 1.5 mil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I put the listing at $1.92 million for the starting bid.That's your problem right there.
You have to put the starting bid a little lower and have people work their way up to $1.92 million.
Try starting at $1.5 mil.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412179</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412965</id>
	<title>Re:Are the songs really worth that much?</title>
	<author>masmullin</author>
	<datestamp>1245617160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>What a deal... I can get those songs without lawyer fees now!!!<br>Thanks!</htmltext>
<tokenext>What a deal... I can get those songs without lawyer fees now ! !
! Thanks !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a deal... I can get those songs without lawyer fees now!!
!Thanks!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412179</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412517</id>
	<title>Re:I think you have it backwards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245613380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is a shame this post got modded down as I am sure mine will be as well. But the truth is that the law on the books is fully against the defended in this case. As for defendants it would be hard to pick a worse one. If the jury believed this defendant destroyed evidence then it makes the defendant look guilty and scheming. This case was never going to get won by this defendant based on the existing law.</p><p>I'm not saying I agree with the law. But it is the law and it doesn't appear to be going any where. US consumers don't seem to care either as the politicians haven't gotten the message that this is some thing they could be voted out of power over. "Home of the free"? Humbug.</p><p>I wouldn't care about this case at all if it wasn't for the fact that big US media and US politicians are tripping over them selves to try and force Canada to abandon it's Constitution and Charter of Rights.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is a shame this post got modded down as I am sure mine will be as well .
But the truth is that the law on the books is fully against the defended in this case .
As for defendants it would be hard to pick a worse one .
If the jury believed this defendant destroyed evidence then it makes the defendant look guilty and scheming .
This case was never going to get won by this defendant based on the existing law.I 'm not saying I agree with the law .
But it is the law and it does n't appear to be going any where .
US consumers do n't seem to care either as the politicians have n't gotten the message that this is some thing they could be voted out of power over .
" Home of the free " ?
Humbug.I would n't care about this case at all if it was n't for the fact that big US media and US politicians are tripping over them selves to try and force Canada to abandon it 's Constitution and Charter of Rights .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is a shame this post got modded down as I am sure mine will be as well.
But the truth is that the law on the books is fully against the defended in this case.
As for defendants it would be hard to pick a worse one.
If the jury believed this defendant destroyed evidence then it makes the defendant look guilty and scheming.
This case was never going to get won by this defendant based on the existing law.I'm not saying I agree with the law.
But it is the law and it doesn't appear to be going any where.
US consumers don't seem to care either as the politicians haven't gotten the message that this is some thing they could be voted out of power over.
"Home of the free"?
Humbug.I wouldn't care about this case at all if it wasn't for the fact that big US media and US politicians are tripping over them selves to try and force Canada to abandon it's Constitution and Charter of Rights.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412073</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412463</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer</title>
	<author>winwar</author>
	<datestamp>1245612960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe you should have at least read the summary before commenting.  As there is no mod for illiteracy or lack of reading comprehension, I'll summarize instead:</p><p>In the "real world", if the case had not been dismissed then damages (in the low five figures) would have been awarded.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe you should have at least read the summary before commenting .
As there is no mod for illiteracy or lack of reading comprehension , I 'll summarize instead : In the " real world " , if the case had not been dismissed then damages ( in the low five figures ) would have been awarded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe you should have at least read the summary before commenting.
As there is no mod for illiteracy or lack of reading comprehension, I'll summarize instead:In the "real world", if the case had not been dismissed then damages (in the low five figures) would have been awarded.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412329</id>
	<title>I guess we've all learned a lesson...</title>
	<author>AmigaHeretic</author>
	<datestamp>1245612180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>...Just go into Wal-Mart and steal the damn CDs!
<br> <br>
I mean seriously don't do that, but if you go into Wal-Mart and steal a CD most likely nothing is going to happen to you if you get caught with one CD on you.  Maybe they'll call the cops to come scare you, and that's a maybe.
<br> <br>
Just getting a copy off the internet though (not even depriving another person or store of the actual CD even) will cost you MILLIONS.  I mean really, 1.92 million?  I mean if she gave 100\% of every paycheck she ever makes, even at a decent wage, she probably won't make that much money in her LIFE.  So destroying someones entire existance because they downloaded some songs?  Does that seem just?
<br> <br>
In Lane County, Oregon (google about our Jail situation, where they have a comuter program to determine who gets released early based on certain criteria) a guy was sentenced to 1 year in jail by a judge for rape.  The jails are so over crowded that they (the computer program) let him out after 3 hours!!  2 weeks later he raped and murdered some other lady.  (We're all hoping they keep this guy in next time for at least a week<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:rolls eyes:)

<br> <br>  So a rapist gets 3 hours of Jail time, and someone who DL'ed Kazaa to her computer gets their life ruined?
<br> <br>
The RIAA are pulling some strings behind the scene I think it's obvious to say.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...Just go into Wal-Mart and steal the damn CDs !
I mean seriously do n't do that , but if you go into Wal-Mart and steal a CD most likely nothing is going to happen to you if you get caught with one CD on you .
Maybe they 'll call the cops to come scare you , and that 's a maybe .
Just getting a copy off the internet though ( not even depriving another person or store of the actual CD even ) will cost you MILLIONS .
I mean really , 1.92 million ?
I mean if she gave 100 \ % of every paycheck she ever makes , even at a decent wage , she probably wo n't make that much money in her LIFE .
So destroying someones entire existance because they downloaded some songs ?
Does that seem just ?
In Lane County , Oregon ( google about our Jail situation , where they have a comuter program to determine who gets released early based on certain criteria ) a guy was sentenced to 1 year in jail by a judge for rape .
The jails are so over crowded that they ( the computer program ) let him out after 3 hours ! !
2 weeks later he raped and murdered some other lady .
( We 're all hoping they keep this guy in next time for at least a week : rolls eyes : ) So a rapist gets 3 hours of Jail time , and someone who DL'ed Kazaa to her computer gets their life ruined ?
The RIAA are pulling some strings behind the scene I think it 's obvious to say .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...Just go into Wal-Mart and steal the damn CDs!
I mean seriously don't do that, but if you go into Wal-Mart and steal a CD most likely nothing is going to happen to you if you get caught with one CD on you.
Maybe they'll call the cops to come scare you, and that's a maybe.
Just getting a copy off the internet though (not even depriving another person or store of the actual CD even) will cost you MILLIONS.
I mean really, 1.92 million?
I mean if she gave 100\% of every paycheck she ever makes, even at a decent wage, she probably won't make that much money in her LIFE.
So destroying someones entire existance because they downloaded some songs?
Does that seem just?
In Lane County, Oregon (google about our Jail situation, where they have a comuter program to determine who gets released early based on certain criteria) a guy was sentenced to 1 year in jail by a judge for rape.
The jails are so over crowded that they (the computer program) let him out after 3 hours!!
2 weeks later he raped and murdered some other lady.
(We're all hoping they keep this guy in next time for at least a week :rolls eyes:)

   So a rapist gets 3 hours of Jail time, and someone who DL'ed Kazaa to her computer gets their life ruined?
The RIAA are pulling some strings behind the scene I think it's obvious to say.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414133</id>
	<title>Re:If you're on a jury for cases like this, NULLIF</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245583380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>they should have found her guilty and fined her one dollar</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they should have found her guilty and fined her one dollar</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they should have found her guilty and fined her one dollar</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413225</id>
	<title>Re:Are the songs really worth that much?</title>
	<author>Celeste R</author>
	<datestamp>1245576240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Kudos, you're fighting the fight the right way.</p><p>You're not doing vigilantism (we have enough of that), you're telling the truth to counter misinformation.</p><p>We need more of that!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kudos , you 're fighting the fight the right way.You 're not doing vigilantism ( we have enough of that ) , you 're telling the truth to counter misinformation.We need more of that !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kudos, you're fighting the fight the right way.You're not doing vigilantism (we have enough of that), you're telling the truth to counter misinformation.We need more of that!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412179</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</id>
	<title>RIAA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245611040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Personally, I have not purchased a CD in almost 10 years, and I will not purchase another CD from an RIAA label EVER. That is the only way we can make our voices heard... DO NOT BUY FROM THEM.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally , I have not purchased a CD in almost 10 years , and I will not purchase another CD from an RIAA label EVER .
That is the only way we can make our voices heard... DO NOT BUY FROM THEM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally, I have not purchased a CD in almost 10 years, and I will not purchase another CD from an RIAA label EVER.
That is the only way we can make our voices heard... DO NOT BUY FROM THEM.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412379</id>
	<title>Blame the system</title>
	<author>homer\_s</author>
	<datestamp>1245612480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The judicial system deserves more blame the RIAA for this. The judicial system is setup, guided and managed purely to serve the interests of the lawyers. <br>
And they do everything to make it complicated, slow and expensive. They make the laws and they get paid to fight for/against it as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The judicial system deserves more blame the RIAA for this .
The judicial system is setup , guided and managed purely to serve the interests of the lawyers .
And they do everything to make it complicated , slow and expensive .
They make the laws and they get paid to fight for/against it as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The judicial system deserves more blame the RIAA for this.
The judicial system is setup, guided and managed purely to serve the interests of the lawyers.
And they do everything to make it complicated, slow and expensive.
They make the laws and they get paid to fight for/against it as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412179</id>
	<title>Are the songs really worth that much?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245611280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I purchased the full albums (and a few singles) of the songs that she downloaded and put them on eBay in one single auction. I put the listing at $1.92 million for the starting bid. However, eBay took my listing down, thinking it was a fraudulent listing. I tried explaining to them on the phone that these 19 CDs worth of music were worth $1.92 million, I even linked them THREE DOZEN news articles reporting the value.</p><p>Here's a list of the songs she downloaded.</p><p><a href="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23534" title="p2pnet.net">http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23534</a> [p2pnet.net]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I purchased the full albums ( and a few singles ) of the songs that she downloaded and put them on eBay in one single auction .
I put the listing at $ 1.92 million for the starting bid .
However , eBay took my listing down , thinking it was a fraudulent listing .
I tried explaining to them on the phone that these 19 CDs worth of music were worth $ 1.92 million , I even linked them THREE DOZEN news articles reporting the value.Here 's a list of the songs she downloaded.http : //www.p2pnet.net/story/23534 [ p2pnet.net ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I purchased the full albums (and a few singles) of the songs that she downloaded and put them on eBay in one single auction.
I put the listing at $1.92 million for the starting bid.
However, eBay took my listing down, thinking it was a fraudulent listing.
I tried explaining to them on the phone that these 19 CDs worth of music were worth $1.92 million, I even linked them THREE DOZEN news articles reporting the value.Here's a list of the songs she downloaded.http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23534 [p2pnet.net]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28416139</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA</title>
	<author>ozydingo</author>
	<datestamp>1245601620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.boycott-riaa.com/" title="boycott-riaa.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.boycott-riaa.com/</a> [boycott-riaa.com] <br>
<a href="http://www.riaaradar.com/" title="riaaradar.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.riaaradar.com/</a> [riaaradar.com] <br>
<br>
[files]: <br>
[pdf]:  <a href="http://downhillbattle.org/riaa/sticker.pdf" title="downhillbattle.org" rel="nofollow">http://downhillbattle.org/riaa/sticker.pdf</a> [downhillbattle.org] <br>
[MS Publisher]:  <a href="http://downhillbattle.org/riaa/sticker.pub" title="downhillbattle.org" rel="nofollow">http://downhillbattle.org/riaa/sticker.pub</a> [downhillbattle.org] <br>
^^ the above are formatted for Avery 5160 labels, but I in no way suggest you to do anything specific with those stickers. For educational purposes only, view what others have done here <a href="http://downhillbattle.org/riaa/" title="downhillbattle.org" rel="nofollow">http://downhillbattle.org/riaa/</a> [downhillbattle.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.boycott-riaa.com/ [ boycott-riaa.com ] http : //www.riaaradar.com/ [ riaaradar.com ] [ files ] : [ pdf ] : http : //downhillbattle.org/riaa/sticker.pdf [ downhillbattle.org ] [ MS Publisher ] : http : //downhillbattle.org/riaa/sticker.pub [ downhillbattle.org ] ^ ^ the above are formatted for Avery 5160 labels , but I in no way suggest you to do anything specific with those stickers .
For educational purposes only , view what others have done here http : //downhillbattle.org/riaa/ [ downhillbattle.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.boycott-riaa.com/ [boycott-riaa.com] 
http://www.riaaradar.com/ [riaaradar.com] 

[files]: 
[pdf]:  http://downhillbattle.org/riaa/sticker.pdf [downhillbattle.org] 
[MS Publisher]:  http://downhillbattle.org/riaa/sticker.pub [downhillbattle.org] 
^^ the above are formatted for Avery 5160 labels, but I in no way suggest you to do anything specific with those stickers.
For educational purposes only, view what others have done here http://downhillbattle.org/riaa/ [downhillbattle.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412109</id>
	<title>Should have?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245610740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What do you mean, should have? You state, "Copyright Act holds that statutory damages should bear a reasonable relationship to actual damages". And yet the statute also states damages can can range from $750 per infringement up to $150,000.</p><p>It seems to me that the jury followed the law, they just didn't follow it in a way you would like. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What do you mean , should have ?
You state , " Copyright Act holds that statutory damages should bear a reasonable relationship to actual damages " .
And yet the statute also states damages can can range from $ 750 per infringement up to $ 150,000.It seems to me that the jury followed the law , they just did n't follow it in a way you would like .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What do you mean, should have?
You state, "Copyright Act holds that statutory damages should bear a reasonable relationship to actual damages".
And yet the statute also states damages can can range from $750 per infringement up to $150,000.It seems to me that the jury followed the law, they just didn't follow it in a way you would like. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413467</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA</title>
	<author>evilviper</author>
	<datestamp>1245577980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Personally, I have not purchased a CD in almost 10 years, and I will not purchase another CD from an RIAA label EVER.</p></div></blockquote><p>Ditto.  And yet the RIAA stubbornly refuses to cease to exist...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally , I have not purchased a CD in almost 10 years , and I will not purchase another CD from an RIAA label EVER.Ditto .
And yet the RIAA stubbornly refuses to cease to exist.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally, I have not purchased a CD in almost 10 years, and I will not purchase another CD from an RIAA label EVER.Ditto.
And yet the RIAA stubbornly refuses to cease to exist...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28414763</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA</title>
	<author>Nefarious Wheel</author>
	<datestamp>1245589080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... to which the RIAA assumes they lost the sale due to piracy, not by any other means. These people are not rational; boycotts do not work with them.</p></div><p>Eventually it will, if enough people boycott them.  They'll have to live off their fat.  Never a pleasant experience for people used to all those calories, eh?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... to which the RIAA assumes they lost the sale due to piracy , not by any other means .
These people are not rational ; boycotts do not work with them.Eventually it will , if enough people boycott them .
They 'll have to live off their fat .
Never a pleasant experience for people used to all those calories , eh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ... to which the RIAA assumes they lost the sale due to piracy, not by any other means.
These people are not rational; boycotts do not work with them.Eventually it will, if enough people boycott them.
They'll have to live off their fat.
Never a pleasant experience for people used to all those calories, eh?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412835</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28415285</id>
	<title>Re:I think you have it backwards</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1245594060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In my most honest opinion, Jammie owes the record companies a couple dollars to pay for her downloaded songs. She owes something in the way of punitive damages. 24 songs, at a buck apiece, is 24 bucks. Drawing on ancient tort law, let's treble the damages, so she now owes 72 bucks. If she had been offered this deal from the get-go, her conscience might have convinced her that 72 bucks was a good deal, and paid it.</p></div><p>This got me wondering...  If everyone in the world distributed every mp3 file in existence to everyone else, would the RIAA still demand thousands per song per person?  There's a limit to what the possible damages could be (if everyone has the files to distribute, then they'd never buy them).  It seems like the RIAA is not happy with getting $1 per song per person.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my most honest opinion , Jammie owes the record companies a couple dollars to pay for her downloaded songs .
She owes something in the way of punitive damages .
24 songs , at a buck apiece , is 24 bucks .
Drawing on ancient tort law , let 's treble the damages , so she now owes 72 bucks .
If she had been offered this deal from the get-go , her conscience might have convinced her that 72 bucks was a good deal , and paid it.This got me wondering... If everyone in the world distributed every mp3 file in existence to everyone else , would the RIAA still demand thousands per song per person ?
There 's a limit to what the possible damages could be ( if everyone has the files to distribute , then they 'd never buy them ) .
It seems like the RIAA is not happy with getting $ 1 per song per person .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my most honest opinion, Jammie owes the record companies a couple dollars to pay for her downloaded songs.
She owes something in the way of punitive damages.
24 songs, at a buck apiece, is 24 bucks.
Drawing on ancient tort law, let's treble the damages, so she now owes 72 bucks.
If she had been offered this deal from the get-go, her conscience might have convinced her that 72 bucks was a good deal, and paid it.This got me wondering...  If everyone in the world distributed every mp3 file in existence to everyone else, would the RIAA still demand thousands per song per person?
There's a limit to what the possible damages could be (if everyone has the files to distribute, then they'd never buy them).
It seems like the RIAA is not happy with getting $1 per song per person.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412899</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412609</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry NewYorkCountryLawyer</title>
	<author>ratboy666</author>
	<datestamp>1245614340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well...</p><p>You shouldn't concentrate so much on that verdict, but as to what that verdict does to foreign perception of the US. I live but two hours from the US border, and what Jamie did doesn't even qualify as a civil issue, let alone a crime, where I live. Unfortunately, US lobbyists are trying to change the law here, but, so far, with little success (except for the typical lip service; love to see politicos at work sucking hard!).</p><p>Tough luck on the verdict, USA. I <i>am</i> laughing at you.</p><p>Now, for a practical matter. If a friend from the US comes and visits, and makes copies (or downloads) of music, is she liable for copyright infringement when she returns to the US? Now, further, if she downloads exclusively from me, and yet is resident in the US, is she guilty?</p><p>Tough questions, but these SHOULD be resolved in a hurry. After all, the difference between $0 and $1.92 million is, well, $1.92 million! Comparisons to cocaine smuggling are welcome... You can get 500 songs on the cheapest mp3 player these days, which is 400 times what Jamie is accused of, with a potential fine of 1/2 billion dollars now -- Say this out loud, and try not to break out laughing. "a $20 investment can result in $500 million in fines".</p><p>Nope, couldn't keep a straight face, sorry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well...You should n't concentrate so much on that verdict , but as to what that verdict does to foreign perception of the US .
I live but two hours from the US border , and what Jamie did does n't even qualify as a civil issue , let alone a crime , where I live .
Unfortunately , US lobbyists are trying to change the law here , but , so far , with little success ( except for the typical lip service ; love to see politicos at work sucking hard !
) .Tough luck on the verdict , USA .
I am laughing at you.Now , for a practical matter .
If a friend from the US comes and visits , and makes copies ( or downloads ) of music , is she liable for copyright infringement when she returns to the US ?
Now , further , if she downloads exclusively from me , and yet is resident in the US , is she guilty ? Tough questions , but these SHOULD be resolved in a hurry .
After all , the difference between $ 0 and $ 1.92 million is , well , $ 1.92 million !
Comparisons to cocaine smuggling are welcome... You can get 500 songs on the cheapest mp3 player these days , which is 400 times what Jamie is accused of , with a potential fine of 1/2 billion dollars now -- Say this out loud , and try not to break out laughing .
" a $ 20 investment can result in $ 500 million in fines " .Nope , could n't keep a straight face , sorry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well...You shouldn't concentrate so much on that verdict, but as to what that verdict does to foreign perception of the US.
I live but two hours from the US border, and what Jamie did doesn't even qualify as a civil issue, let alone a crime, where I live.
Unfortunately, US lobbyists are trying to change the law here, but, so far, with little success (except for the typical lip service; love to see politicos at work sucking hard!
).Tough luck on the verdict, USA.
I am laughing at you.Now, for a practical matter.
If a friend from the US comes and visits, and makes copies (or downloads) of music, is she liable for copyright infringement when she returns to the US?
Now, further, if she downloads exclusively from me, and yet is resident in the US, is she guilty?Tough questions, but these SHOULD be resolved in a hurry.
After all, the difference between $0 and $1.92 million is, well, $1.92 million!
Comparisons to cocaine smuggling are welcome... You can get 500 songs on the cheapest mp3 player these days, which is 400 times what Jamie is accused of, with a potential fine of 1/2 billion dollars now -- Say this out loud, and try not to break out laughing.
"a $20 investment can result in $500 million in fines".Nope, couldn't keep a straight face, sorry.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413359</id>
	<title>Re:RIAA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245577200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Brilliant idea!  We stop buying, they lose their main sources of income, and they will have no choice but to blame downloading and sue more people!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Brilliant idea !
We stop buying , they lose their main sources of income , and they will have no choice but to blame downloading and sue more people !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Brilliant idea!
We stop buying, they lose their main sources of income, and they will have no choice but to blame downloading and sue more people!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412151</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28417071</id>
	<title>Re:I think you have it backwards</title>
	<author>darthvader100</author>
	<datestamp>1245608100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't you know that <i>thousands of dollars</i> is the cost of a week's child labor. <br> <br>
Or is that the cost of buying the kid?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't you know that thousands of dollars is the cost of a week 's child labor .
Or is that the cost of buying the kid ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't you know that thousands of dollars is the cost of a week's child labor.
Or is that the cost of buying the kid?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412899</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413535</id>
	<title>Re:Makes sense</title>
	<author>32771</author>
	<datestamp>1245578460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So she will now pay sqrt(-1)*$1920000 ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So she will now pay sqrt ( -1 ) * $ 1920000 ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So she will now pay sqrt(-1)*$1920000 ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412037</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412397</id>
	<title>I imagine a parallel universe sometimes, too</title>
	<author>whiledo</author>
	<datestamp>1245612600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sad to see this judgment turn out the way it did.  But I can't help but wish Ray had reported with a little bit less spin.  Every time he had a story submission, it was like it was a guaranteed fact that the RIAA was on the ropes and there was no way Thomas would lose.  I understand the PR world and how you want to leave the overwhelming impression that there's no way you can lose because sometimes that actually helps you win.  But I don't think the slashdot crowd was very well served.  I would have liked a more neutral point of view where from time to time they said things like, "yes, this bit DOES suck but it's likely it will apply based on other court judgments."</p><p>I know Ray pointed out several things that he thought were just plain wrong, but I start feeling like I'm not sure if I'm reading the neutral factual opinion or the press release version.  As it stands, the laws are pretty stacked against the way most of on slashdot wish it was.  Until we get those changed, I see little hope for courtroom victories.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sad to see this judgment turn out the way it did .
But I ca n't help but wish Ray had reported with a little bit less spin .
Every time he had a story submission , it was like it was a guaranteed fact that the RIAA was on the ropes and there was no way Thomas would lose .
I understand the PR world and how you want to leave the overwhelming impression that there 's no way you can lose because sometimes that actually helps you win .
But I do n't think the slashdot crowd was very well served .
I would have liked a more neutral point of view where from time to time they said things like , " yes , this bit DOES suck but it 's likely it will apply based on other court judgments .
" I know Ray pointed out several things that he thought were just plain wrong , but I start feeling like I 'm not sure if I 'm reading the neutral factual opinion or the press release version .
As it stands , the laws are pretty stacked against the way most of on slashdot wish it was .
Until we get those changed , I see little hope for courtroom victories .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sad to see this judgment turn out the way it did.
But I can't help but wish Ray had reported with a little bit less spin.
Every time he had a story submission, it was like it was a guaranteed fact that the RIAA was on the ropes and there was no way Thomas would lose.
I understand the PR world and how you want to leave the overwhelming impression that there's no way you can lose because sometimes that actually helps you win.
But I don't think the slashdot crowd was very well served.
I would have liked a more neutral point of view where from time to time they said things like, "yes, this bit DOES suck but it's likely it will apply based on other court judgments.
"I know Ray pointed out several things that he thought were just plain wrong, but I start feeling like I'm not sure if I'm reading the neutral factual opinion or the press release version.
As it stands, the laws are pretty stacked against the way most of on slashdot wish it was.
Until we get those changed, I see little hope for courtroom victories.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413045</id>
	<title>your blog......</title>
	<author>AnAdventurer</author>
	<datestamp>1245617760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And I'll read your blog if I remember at the end of the day since there is nothing on TV tonight. Please read mine in return: <a href="http://www.anadventurer.com/" title="anadventurer.com" rel="nofollow">AnAdventurer.com</a> [anadventurer.com]
<p>
Thanks!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I 'll read your blog if I remember at the end of the day since there is nothing on TV tonight .
Please read mine in return : AnAdventurer.com [ anadventurer.com ] Thanks !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I'll read your blog if I remember at the end of the day since there is nothing on TV tonight.
Please read mine in return: AnAdventurer.com [anadventurer.com]

Thanks!</sentencetext>
</comment>
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28415285
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412445
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412517
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_21_1618242.18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412591
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_21_1618242.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412221
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412477
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_21_1618242.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412329
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413539
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412447
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_21_1618242.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412081
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_21_1618242.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28412109
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_21_1618242.28413299
</commentlist>
</conversation>
