<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_18_004237</id>
	<title>English Market Produces Energy With Kinetic Plates</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1245351060000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="mailto:supertree0822@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">Johnathan Martinez</a> writes <i>"Sainsbury's market in England has installed <a href="http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-14013-Energy-Technologies-Examiner~y2009m6d16-England-market-produces-green-energy-with-kinetic-plates">'kinetic energy' plates in the parking lot</a> of its store in Gloucester. The plates are an experiment with a newer energy producing technology. The plates create as much as 30 kWh of energy as cars drive over them. The weight of the cars puts pressure on the plates creating kinetic energy to run a generator. The current is used to power the store and will lower the energy consumption of the market."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Johnathan Martinez writes " Sainsbury 's market in England has installed 'kinetic energy ' plates in the parking lot of its store in Gloucester .
The plates are an experiment with a newer energy producing technology .
The plates create as much as 30 kWh of energy as cars drive over them .
The weight of the cars puts pressure on the plates creating kinetic energy to run a generator .
The current is used to power the store and will lower the energy consumption of the market .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Johnathan Martinez writes "Sainsbury's market in England has installed 'kinetic energy' plates in the parking lot of its store in Gloucester.
The plates are an experiment with a newer energy producing technology.
The plates create as much as 30 kWh of energy as cars drive over them.
The weight of the cars puts pressure on the plates creating kinetic energy to run a generator.
The current is used to power the store and will lower the energy consumption of the market.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370381</id>
	<title>RTFA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245355620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have no fracking idea how any of these early posts are being modded "Insightful"..</p><p>Theft? Um, no, it's called "Gravity".</p><p>RTFA.</p><p>The car's weight puts pressure on the plates, which is used to generate power. It take no more fuel to drive over these plates than it would to drive over asphalt. And no, it doesn't drain the car's batteries either. Jesus.</p><p>Man, did someone beat ya'll with the stupid stick today???</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have no fracking idea how any of these early posts are being modded " Insightful " ..Theft ?
Um , no , it 's called " Gravity " .RTFA.The car 's weight puts pressure on the plates , which is used to generate power .
It take no more fuel to drive over these plates than it would to drive over asphalt .
And no , it does n't drain the car 's batteries either .
Jesus.Man , did someone beat ya 'll with the stupid stick today ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have no fracking idea how any of these early posts are being modded "Insightful"..Theft?
Um, no, it's called "Gravity".RTFA.The car's weight puts pressure on the plates, which is used to generate power.
It take no more fuel to drive over these plates than it would to drive over asphalt.
And no, it doesn't drain the car's batteries either.
Jesus.Man, did someone beat ya'll with the stupid stick today??
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371353</id>
	<title>Cars waste 95\% of gasoline energy when cruising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245321180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I once measured my cars efficiency (an old Renault 5). <br>
I drove 100 kph (28m/s) on a flat freeway, with no wind, and set the gears in neutral. It took the car about 30 seconds to slow down to 90kph (25m/s). The car weighs about 900kg.

<br>So we have E0=0.5*m*v*v = 353kJ and E1=281kJ. The car lost 717kJ in 30 seconds or <b>2.4kW</b> <br>
So it takes just <b>2.4kW</b> to keep a small car cruising at 100kph on a freeway. The stated gas consumption of that car is about 1 liter/18 km at 90 kph so 1.3 ml/second of gasoline. Gasoline has ca 32MJ/l energy content, so 1.3ml/s is equivalent to 44kW.<br>
<b>The system efficiency of a car cruising on a flat freeway is about 5\%!</b> <br>
Do the experiment yourself and see what numbers you come up with. It's also a really good highschool experiment.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I once measured my cars efficiency ( an old Renault 5 ) .
I drove 100 kph ( 28m/s ) on a flat freeway , with no wind , and set the gears in neutral .
It took the car about 30 seconds to slow down to 90kph ( 25m/s ) .
The car weighs about 900kg .
So we have E0 = 0.5 * m * v * v = 353kJ and E1 = 281kJ .
The car lost 717kJ in 30 seconds or 2.4kW So it takes just 2.4kW to keep a small car cruising at 100kph on a freeway .
The stated gas consumption of that car is about 1 liter/18 km at 90 kph so 1.3 ml/second of gasoline .
Gasoline has ca 32MJ/l energy content , so 1.3ml/s is equivalent to 44kW .
The system efficiency of a car cruising on a flat freeway is about 5 \ % !
Do the experiment yourself and see what numbers you come up with .
It 's also a really good highschool experiment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I once measured my cars efficiency (an old Renault 5).
I drove 100 kph (28m/s) on a flat freeway, with no wind, and set the gears in neutral.
It took the car about 30 seconds to slow down to 90kph (25m/s).
The car weighs about 900kg.
So we have E0=0.5*m*v*v = 353kJ and E1=281kJ.
The car lost 717kJ in 30 seconds or 2.4kW 
So it takes just 2.4kW to keep a small car cruising at 100kph on a freeway.
The stated gas consumption of that car is about 1 liter/18 km at 90 kph so 1.3 ml/second of gasoline.
Gasoline has ca 32MJ/l energy content, so 1.3ml/s is equivalent to 44kW.
The system efficiency of a car cruising on a flat freeway is about 5\%!
Do the experiment yourself and see what numbers you come up with.
It's also a really good highschool experiment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370567</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28380149</id>
	<title>Re:Cars waste 95\% of gasoline energy when cruising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245317580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your analysis misses critical features of the problem.  You give an average number, but neglect wind resistance which scales quadratically with velocity. It normally takes about 2.5-3x your result for a normal sedan at 100kph, which should yield 15\%+ from your analysis.  A slightly more advanced analysis would consider road and tire surface.  These scale more linearly with velocity.  Most 'cars' are around 20\% efficient at 90-100kph.  The engines are designed with this load in mind.  It is a fine experiment if you include grade, wind, and wind resistance, but it would be difficult pedagogically without calculus.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your analysis misses critical features of the problem .
You give an average number , but neglect wind resistance which scales quadratically with velocity .
It normally takes about 2.5-3x your result for a normal sedan at 100kph , which should yield 15 \ % + from your analysis .
A slightly more advanced analysis would consider road and tire surface .
These scale more linearly with velocity .
Most 'cars ' are around 20 \ % efficient at 90-100kph .
The engines are designed with this load in mind .
It is a fine experiment if you include grade , wind , and wind resistance , but it would be difficult pedagogically without calculus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your analysis misses critical features of the problem.
You give an average number, but neglect wind resistance which scales quadratically with velocity.
It normally takes about 2.5-3x your result for a normal sedan at 100kph, which should yield 15\%+ from your analysis.
A slightly more advanced analysis would consider road and tire surface.
These scale more linearly with velocity.
Most 'cars' are around 20\% efficient at 90-100kph.
The engines are designed with this load in mind.
It is a fine experiment if you include grade, wind, and wind resistance, but it would be difficult pedagogically without calculus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372245</id>
	<title>useful for the nations roads?</title>
	<author>Kained</author>
	<datestamp>1245330960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>built into the road network, could save on lighting it!  put tax back in our pockets?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>built into the road network , could save on lighting it !
put tax back in our pockets ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>built into the road network, could save on lighting it!
put tax back in our pockets?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371879</id>
	<title>30 kWh?</title>
	<author>JoeD</author>
	<datestamp>1245327540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm paying 10 cents per kWh.  So at my rates, that's a whopping $3.00 per month they're saving.</p><p>How much did all that equipment cost?  How long will it take to pay it off at that rate?</p><p>I'm thinking someone failed to do the cost/benefit analysis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm paying 10 cents per kWh .
So at my rates , that 's a whopping $ 3.00 per month they 're saving.How much did all that equipment cost ?
How long will it take to pay it off at that rate ? I 'm thinking someone failed to do the cost/benefit analysis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm paying 10 cents per kWh.
So at my rates, that's a whopping $3.00 per month they're saving.How much did all that equipment cost?
How long will it take to pay it off at that rate?I'm thinking someone failed to do the cost/benefit analysis.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371179</id>
	<title>Next step: beds</title>
	<author>ozbird</author>
	<datestamp>1245319500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Hey babe, come back to my place and let's generate some electricity."</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Hey babe , come back to my place and let 's generate some electricity .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Hey babe, come back to my place and let's generate some electricity.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28373845</id>
	<title>Re:Put plates at the bottom of an exit ramp</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245339300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>a similar idea was to build tram / light-rail stations on the top of small hills. Thus gravity assists the train in braking and accelerating away from teh station<br>
&nbsp;</p> </div><p>The London Underground system does exactly this. Of course it is easier underground as you can make your own hills.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>a similar idea was to build tram / light-rail stations on the top of small hills .
Thus gravity assists the train in braking and accelerating away from teh station   The London Underground system does exactly this .
Of course it is easier underground as you can make your own hills .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a similar idea was to build tram / light-rail stations on the top of small hills.
Thus gravity assists the train in braking and accelerating away from teh station
  The London Underground system does exactly this.
Of course it is easier underground as you can make your own hills.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28373135</id>
	<title>Re:Put plates at the bottom of an exit ramp</title>
	<author>meldex</author>
	<datestamp>1245336360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is only true if I do not have a car that has a reciprocal braking system that allows me to recapture the energy myself.

Also a bump in the road will be more likely to cause me to brake more than I would normally need to in any situation.  (Speed bumps exist to encourage braking not to slow the vehicle themselves.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is only true if I do not have a car that has a reciprocal braking system that allows me to recapture the energy myself .
Also a bump in the road will be more likely to cause me to brake more than I would normally need to in any situation .
( Speed bumps exist to encourage braking not to slow the vehicle themselves .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is only true if I do not have a car that has a reciprocal braking system that allows me to recapture the energy myself.
Also a bump in the road will be more likely to cause me to brake more than I would normally need to in any situation.
(Speed bumps exist to encourage braking not to slow the vehicle themselves.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370487</id>
	<title>Re:RTFA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245356340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wait, so the plate drops down and it makes some power, how does your car get out of the now slight pot-hole? Why it has to drive forward, which (considering you are driveing up a very brief and very small hill) uses a tiny amount more fuel.</p><p>There is never, and WILL never be a free ride, all power comes from somewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait , so the plate drops down and it makes some power , how does your car get out of the now slight pot-hole ?
Why it has to drive forward , which ( considering you are driveing up a very brief and very small hill ) uses a tiny amount more fuel.There is never , and WILL never be a free ride , all power comes from somewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait, so the plate drops down and it makes some power, how does your car get out of the now slight pot-hole?
Why it has to drive forward, which (considering you are driveing up a very brief and very small hill) uses a tiny amount more fuel.There is never, and WILL never be a free ride, all power comes from somewhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370381</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370531</id>
	<title>Isn't this just theft?</title>
	<author>feepness</author>
	<datestamp>1245356700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The car is climbing over the plate before it drops (or out of a slight dip after it does).  This requires a little extra gas and therefore it's coming out of the customer's pocket.
<br> <br>
I mean if this is "free" energy, why not pave the streets with them?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The car is climbing over the plate before it drops ( or out of a slight dip after it does ) .
This requires a little extra gas and therefore it 's coming out of the customer 's pocket .
I mean if this is " free " energy , why not pave the streets with them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The car is climbing over the plate before it drops (or out of a slight dip after it does).
This requires a little extra gas and therefore it's coming out of the customer's pocket.
I mean if this is "free" energy, why not pave the streets with them?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371611</id>
	<title>Jogging</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245324600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I jog thru their car park 3 times a week on my way to the gym.  Will I be generating electricity for them if I run over these devices?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I jog thru their car park 3 times a week on my way to the gym .
Will I be generating electricity for them if I run over these devices ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I jog thru their car park 3 times a week on my way to the gym.
Will I be generating electricity for them if I run over these devices?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370311</id>
	<title>useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>seanadams.com</author>
	<datestamp>1245268380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is just an gas powered electric generator, the likes of which rube goldberg would be proud of. You'd be better off siphoning a thimble of fuel from each car, selling it, and using the proceeds to buy electricity from the utility.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just an gas powered electric generator , the likes of which rube goldberg would be proud of .
You 'd be better off siphoning a thimble of fuel from each car , selling it , and using the proceeds to buy electricity from the utility .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just an gas powered electric generator, the likes of which rube goldberg would be proud of.
You'd be better off siphoning a thimble of fuel from each car, selling it, and using the proceeds to buy electricity from the utility.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28373737</id>
	<title>Re:RTFA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245338700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>laws of physics fail</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>laws of physics fail</tokentext>
<sentencetext>laws of physics fail</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370381</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28379093</id>
	<title>Put a dynamo of down-only lifts!</title>
	<author>MessyBlob</author>
	<datestamp>1245357660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Put a dymnamo on a pair of lifts on a multi-storey car park, for the cars GOING DOWN<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:o)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Put a dymnamo on a pair of lifts on a multi-storey car park , for the cars GOING DOWN : o )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put a dymnamo on a pair of lifts on a multi-storey car park, for the cars GOING DOWN :o)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28375119</id>
	<title>Re:it's not green</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1245344400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It depends on it's use. If it is replacing the energy you would throw away breaking, then it's a nice way to move waste energy from your break to a grid.</p><p>Again, it istaking energy that people re going to loose one breaks.</p><p>On a slope would be good as well since you would be taking energy from the car that would be lost through breaking as well.</p><p>Of course a bad implementation would be a complete waste.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It depends on it 's use .
If it is replacing the energy you would throw away breaking , then it 's a nice way to move waste energy from your break to a grid.Again , it istaking energy that people re going to loose one breaks.On a slope would be good as well since you would be taking energy from the car that would be lost through breaking as well.Of course a bad implementation would be a complete waste .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It depends on it's use.
If it is replacing the energy you would throw away breaking, then it's a nice way to move waste energy from your break to a grid.Again, it istaking energy that people re going to loose one breaks.On a slope would be good as well since you would be taking energy from the car that would be lost through breaking as well.Of course a bad implementation would be a complete waste.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370489</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28373391</id>
	<title>Re:Cars waste 95\% of gasoline energy when cruising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245337200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow. So you got an estimate of the drag on your Renault and this somehow equates to the motor? I mean, you even state specifically you put it into neutral which means the motor isn't doing any useful work. Did you measure the fuel used by idling? What does idling fuel consumption have to do with the price of tea in China?</p><p>IC motors are not particularly efficient, but they do quite a bit better than your 5\%, especially if you are doing something useful with the motor. And suggesting others conduct an experiment in estimating the drag coefficient of a car for the purpose of estimating fuel efficiency?</p><p>And, on slashdot, supposedly populated by nerds, this got modded +5 informative?</p><p>The mind boggles.</p><p>Thoromyr</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow .
So you got an estimate of the drag on your Renault and this somehow equates to the motor ?
I mean , you even state specifically you put it into neutral which means the motor is n't doing any useful work .
Did you measure the fuel used by idling ?
What does idling fuel consumption have to do with the price of tea in China ? IC motors are not particularly efficient , but they do quite a bit better than your 5 \ % , especially if you are doing something useful with the motor .
And suggesting others conduct an experiment in estimating the drag coefficient of a car for the purpose of estimating fuel efficiency ? And , on slashdot , supposedly populated by nerds , this got modded + 5 informative ? The mind boggles.Thoromyr</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow.
So you got an estimate of the drag on your Renault and this somehow equates to the motor?
I mean, you even state specifically you put it into neutral which means the motor isn't doing any useful work.
Did you measure the fuel used by idling?
What does idling fuel consumption have to do with the price of tea in China?IC motors are not particularly efficient, but they do quite a bit better than your 5\%, especially if you are doing something useful with the motor.
And suggesting others conduct an experiment in estimating the drag coefficient of a car for the purpose of estimating fuel efficiency?And, on slashdot, supposedly populated by nerds, this got modded +5 informative?The mind boggles.Thoromyr</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28373919</id>
	<title>Re:No such thing as free lunch...</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1245339540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>letting gravity do the work</p></div><p>Anonymous Coward is correct, but he understates the issue.</p><p>GRAVITY NEVER, EVER, DOES ANY WORK. EVER. ANY.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>letting gravity do the workAnonymous Coward is correct , but he understates the issue.GRAVITY NEVER , EVER , DOES ANY WORK .
EVER. ANY .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>letting gravity do the workAnonymous Coward is correct, but he understates the issue.GRAVITY NEVER, EVER, DOES ANY WORK.
EVER. ANY.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370913</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370521</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>jginspace</author>
	<datestamp>1245356580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As I noted in the reply to the post 'Leeching...' below, it's not theft, the cars are slowed down at the point at which they should be slowing down anyway - they're coming into the car park. There's no extra fuel usage - feet will be off the accelerator and over the brake pedal at the point where this device is deployed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As I noted in the reply to the post 'Leeching... ' below , it 's not theft , the cars are slowed down at the point at which they should be slowing down anyway - they 're coming into the car park .
There 's no extra fuel usage - feet will be off the accelerator and over the brake pedal at the point where this device is deployed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As I noted in the reply to the post 'Leeching...' below, it's not theft, the cars are slowed down at the point at which they should be slowing down anyway - they're coming into the car park.
There's no extra fuel usage - feet will be off the accelerator and over the brake pedal at the point where this device is deployed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370331</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28389301</id>
	<title>Re:RTFA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245423600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, not if the momentum of the car carries it over the plate.  Some kinetic energy will be converted to potential energy, and some will be lost to the plate (and to friction as always), but no further energy input from the motor is required.</p><p>Sure the car will have less total energy at that point, and yes that energy originally came from the car's engine (and thus from gasoline).  However, if the car was planning to brake a moment later anyway and thereby waste all of that energy by converting it into heat then there is no real loss!</p><p>No extra gasoline needs to be used to get over the plate, let's put it that way.  Some of the car's kinetic energy is siphoned off before all of the car's kinetic energy is wasted as heat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , not if the momentum of the car carries it over the plate .
Some kinetic energy will be converted to potential energy , and some will be lost to the plate ( and to friction as always ) , but no further energy input from the motor is required.Sure the car will have less total energy at that point , and yes that energy originally came from the car 's engine ( and thus from gasoline ) .
However , if the car was planning to brake a moment later anyway and thereby waste all of that energy by converting it into heat then there is no real loss ! No extra gasoline needs to be used to get over the plate , let 's put it that way .
Some of the car 's kinetic energy is siphoned off before all of the car 's kinetic energy is wasted as heat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, not if the momentum of the car carries it over the plate.
Some kinetic energy will be converted to potential energy, and some will be lost to the plate (and to friction as always), but no further energy input from the motor is required.Sure the car will have less total energy at that point, and yes that energy originally came from the car's engine (and thus from gasoline).
However, if the car was planning to brake a moment later anyway and thereby waste all of that energy by converting it into heat then there is no real loss!No extra gasoline needs to be used to get over the plate, let's put it that way.
Some of the car's kinetic energy is siphoned off before all of the car's kinetic energy is wasted as heat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370487</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372473</id>
	<title>Re:Cars waste 95\% of gasoline energy when cruising</title>
	<author>smoker2</author>
	<datestamp>1245332700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Very nice numbers but a false conclusion. It does not take only 2.4kW to keep the car at 100kph, that is how much kinetic energy you lost by dropping 10kph. What about the other 90kph ? The figure is low because you are on wheels and the whole thing is designed to have low rolling resistance. The fact that you only lost 2.4kW shows that. You need 44kW to maintain 100kph. If the engine was only 5\% efficient it would not be in production.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Very nice numbers but a false conclusion .
It does not take only 2.4kW to keep the car at 100kph , that is how much kinetic energy you lost by dropping 10kph .
What about the other 90kph ?
The figure is low because you are on wheels and the whole thing is designed to have low rolling resistance .
The fact that you only lost 2.4kW shows that .
You need 44kW to maintain 100kph .
If the engine was only 5 \ % efficient it would not be in production .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very nice numbers but a false conclusion.
It does not take only 2.4kW to keep the car at 100kph, that is how much kinetic energy you lost by dropping 10kph.
What about the other 90kph ?
The figure is low because you are on wheels and the whole thing is designed to have low rolling resistance.
The fact that you only lost 2.4kW shows that.
You need 44kW to maintain 100kph.
If the engine was only 5\% efficient it would not be in production.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371819</id>
	<title>Win Win situation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245326760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is true that the enerygy is ultimately coming from the cars engine.But when you place this at a place where you would normaly have placed a speed bump , it actually makes sense and can be a WIN WIN situation for both parties. the plates will convert the car's energy winch otherwise would have been wasted by the cars brakes and shock absorbers.<br>The supermarket: get some "free" energy.<br>The Car Owner   : well atleast his brakes and shock absorbers will last a bit longer<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) (that will be rather hard to measure though.)</p><p>p.s "free" but they still have some cost for the installation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is true that the enerygy is ultimately coming from the cars engine.But when you place this at a place where you would normaly have placed a speed bump , it actually makes sense and can be a WIN WIN situation for both parties .
the plates will convert the car 's energy winch otherwise would have been wasted by the cars brakes and shock absorbers.The supermarket : get some " free " energy.The Car Owner : well atleast his brakes and shock absorbers will last a bit longer : ) ( that will be rather hard to measure though .
) p.s " free " but they still have some cost for the installation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is true that the enerygy is ultimately coming from the cars engine.But when you place this at a place where you would normaly have placed a speed bump , it actually makes sense and can be a WIN WIN situation for both parties.
the plates will convert the car's energy winch otherwise would have been wasted by the cars brakes and shock absorbers.The supermarket: get some "free" energy.The Car Owner   : well atleast his brakes and shock absorbers will last a bit longer :) (that will be rather hard to measure though.
)p.s "free" but they still have some cost for the installation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370913</id>
	<title>Re:No such thing as free lunch...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245317040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And the work for pressing the plates down is done by what? Maybe, that could be, uhmm... the cars driving over them, yes? So basically they are using their customers fuel to power their store and call that "green". Way to go, guys.</p></div><p>What a troll. These cars are going to be driving over the pavement and exerting the SAME FORCE which makes the plates work anyway, wearing away on standard surfacing instead of being harnessed by this system and put to good use. That surface, ASPHALT, also comes from a petroleum base, and although highly recyclable, is just another cost to contend with; at least by the time the kinetic plates need repair/replacement (if built right), the business will have saved some money on electricity costs. Also, that's up to 30 kWh of power they don't have to buy from the grid, which doesn't need to be generated. Sure, one store doesn't make a difference (generators will run just as hard), but once you start seeing these everywhere, suddenly we need to burn less coal because the high energy demands are partially met by simply letting gravity do the work.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And the work for pressing the plates down is done by what ?
Maybe , that could be , uhmm... the cars driving over them , yes ?
So basically they are using their customers fuel to power their store and call that " green " .
Way to go , guys.What a troll .
These cars are going to be driving over the pavement and exerting the SAME FORCE which makes the plates work anyway , wearing away on standard surfacing instead of being harnessed by this system and put to good use .
That surface , ASPHALT , also comes from a petroleum base , and although highly recyclable , is just another cost to contend with ; at least by the time the kinetic plates need repair/replacement ( if built right ) , the business will have saved some money on electricity costs .
Also , that 's up to 30 kWh of power they do n't have to buy from the grid , which does n't need to be generated .
Sure , one store does n't make a difference ( generators will run just as hard ) , but once you start seeing these everywhere , suddenly we need to burn less coal because the high energy demands are partially met by simply letting gravity do the work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the work for pressing the plates down is done by what?
Maybe, that could be, uhmm... the cars driving over them, yes?
So basically they are using their customers fuel to power their store and call that "green".
Way to go, guys.What a troll.
These cars are going to be driving over the pavement and exerting the SAME FORCE which makes the plates work anyway, wearing away on standard surfacing instead of being harnessed by this system and put to good use.
That surface, ASPHALT, also comes from a petroleum base, and although highly recyclable, is just another cost to contend with; at least by the time the kinetic plates need repair/replacement (if built right), the business will have saved some money on electricity costs.
Also, that's up to 30 kWh of power they don't have to buy from the grid, which doesn't need to be generated.
Sure, one store doesn't make a difference (generators will run just as hard), but once you start seeing these everywhere, suddenly we need to burn less coal because the high energy demands are partially met by simply letting gravity do the work.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372053</id>
	<title>This is what will actually happen...</title>
	<author>GrahamCox</author>
	<datestamp>1245329280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Everyone's bitching about "stealing energy". But this is England. Gloucester, England, a fairly provincial sort of place (incidentally, my American readers, it's pronounced 'Gloster') - I actually know this supermarket. After a few weeks, the mechanism will break down. I might get repaired once or twice, but it will break down again. The management will stick a sign on it saying "out of order". Then after a while that'll be removed and the plate will be permanently fixed in position or removed and tarmaced over. Don't worry about stealing energy, this is how all low-cost, locally engineered, locally paid for schemes on this scale pan out in the UK.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone 's bitching about " stealing energy " .
But this is England .
Gloucester , England , a fairly provincial sort of place ( incidentally , my American readers , it 's pronounced 'Gloster ' ) - I actually know this supermarket .
After a few weeks , the mechanism will break down .
I might get repaired once or twice , but it will break down again .
The management will stick a sign on it saying " out of order " .
Then after a while that 'll be removed and the plate will be permanently fixed in position or removed and tarmaced over .
Do n't worry about stealing energy , this is how all low-cost , locally engineered , locally paid for schemes on this scale pan out in the UK .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone's bitching about "stealing energy".
But this is England.
Gloucester, England, a fairly provincial sort of place (incidentally, my American readers, it's pronounced 'Gloster') - I actually know this supermarket.
After a few weeks, the mechanism will break down.
I might get repaired once or twice, but it will break down again.
The management will stick a sign on it saying "out of order".
Then after a while that'll be removed and the plate will be permanently fixed in position or removed and tarmaced over.
Don't worry about stealing energy, this is how all low-cost, locally engineered, locally paid for schemes on this scale pan out in the UK.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371531</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245323460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll notice!  I keep all my electrons numbered for easy stocktaking.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll notice !
I keep all my electrons numbered for easy stocktaking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll notice!
I keep all my electrons numbered for easy stocktaking.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370331</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371219</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>ChienAndalu</author>
	<datestamp>1245319800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Technically, you're right. Practically, cars waste such vast amounts of energy that the energy drain for this thing (about equivalent to driving over a small bump) probably couldn't even be measured.</p></div><p>Not only can it be measured, it can be harvested.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Technically , you 're right .
Practically , cars waste such vast amounts of energy that the energy drain for this thing ( about equivalent to driving over a small bump ) probably could n't even be measured.Not only can it be measured , it can be harvested .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Technically, you're right.
Practically, cars waste such vast amounts of energy that the energy drain for this thing (about equivalent to driving over a small bump) probably couldn't even be measured.Not only can it be measured, it can be harvested.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370567</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28374213</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>mpeskett</author>
	<datestamp>1245340800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A typical racecar produces about 400 kilowatts. A medium model wind turbine (with a 50m tower) produces about 600 kilowatts.</p></div><p>So what you're saying is, we should mount a 50m wind turbine on top of racecars?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A typical racecar produces about 400 kilowatts .
A medium model wind turbine ( with a 50m tower ) produces about 600 kilowatts.So what you 're saying is , we should mount a 50m wind turbine on top of racecars ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A typical racecar produces about 400 kilowatts.
A medium model wind turbine (with a 50m tower) produces about 600 kilowatts.So what you're saying is, we should mount a 50m wind turbine on top of racecars?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370567</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372237</id>
	<title>I have an idea!</title>
	<author>Atrophis</author>
	<datestamp>1245330900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Considering the state of American weight and energy problems, we could line all the side walks with these plates and force everyone to walk killing two birds with one stone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering the state of American weight and energy problems , we could line all the side walks with these plates and force everyone to walk killing two birds with one stone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering the state of American weight and energy problems, we could line all the side walks with these plates and force everyone to walk killing two birds with one stone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28377515</id>
	<title>Inefficient theft of biofuel generated leccy</title>
	<author>MessyBlob</author>
	<datestamp>1245353400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Agree: it's theft, AND a very inefficient way of generating electricity. We should be moving away from biofuel generation (and this is yet more inefficiency).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Agree : it 's theft , AND a very inefficient way of generating electricity .
We should be moving away from biofuel generation ( and this is yet more inefficiency ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agree: it's theft, AND a very inefficient way of generating electricity.
We should be moving away from biofuel generation (and this is yet more inefficiency).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371849</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28375367</id>
	<title>'kinetic energy' hinges</title>
	<author>tinkerton</author>
	<datestamp>1245345480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All the doors in our house have 'kinetic energy' hinges. I gradually increased the tension and you should see the arms we all have around here now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All the doors in our house have 'kinetic energy ' hinges .
I gradually increased the tension and you should see the arms we all have around here now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All the doors in our house have 'kinetic energy' hinges.
I gradually increased the tension and you should see the arms we all have around here now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370567</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>david.given</author>
	<datestamp>1245356940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Technically, you're right. Practically, cars waste such vast amounts of energy that the energy drain for this thing (about equivalent to driving over a small bump) probably couldn't even be measured.</p><p>People don't understand just how much energy cars use, because car engines are typically measured in horsepower rather than in kilowatts. But it's the same quantity --- they're dimensionally equivalent. It's instructive to play with Google's units converter a bit: the Tata Nano, the world's cheapest car, has a crappy little engine producing 33 horsepower. That's 25 kilowatts, which is slightly more than the entire electrical supply to my house. A typical racecar produces about 400 kilowatts. A medium model wind turbine (with a 50m tower) produces about 600 kilowatts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Technically , you 're right .
Practically , cars waste such vast amounts of energy that the energy drain for this thing ( about equivalent to driving over a small bump ) probably could n't even be measured.People do n't understand just how much energy cars use , because car engines are typically measured in horsepower rather than in kilowatts .
But it 's the same quantity --- they 're dimensionally equivalent .
It 's instructive to play with Google 's units converter a bit : the Tata Nano , the world 's cheapest car , has a crappy little engine producing 33 horsepower .
That 's 25 kilowatts , which is slightly more than the entire electrical supply to my house .
A typical racecar produces about 400 kilowatts .
A medium model wind turbine ( with a 50m tower ) produces about 600 kilowatts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Technically, you're right.
Practically, cars waste such vast amounts of energy that the energy drain for this thing (about equivalent to driving over a small bump) probably couldn't even be measured.People don't understand just how much energy cars use, because car engines are typically measured in horsepower rather than in kilowatts.
But it's the same quantity --- they're dimensionally equivalent.
It's instructive to play with Google's units converter a bit: the Tata Nano, the world's cheapest car, has a crappy little engine producing 33 horsepower.
That's 25 kilowatts, which is slightly more than the entire electrical supply to my house.
A typical racecar produces about 400 kilowatts.
A medium model wind turbine (with a 50m tower) produces about 600 kilowatts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370331</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28387921</id>
	<title>Re:Cars waste 95\% of gasoline energy when cruising</title>
	<author>slashbart</author>
	<datestamp>1245416940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>drag scales quadratically with speed, yeah so what. I dropped the speed by 10\%, so the drag dropped by 19\%. Integrating this over the whole 100kph to 90kph has a few \% error, nothing to invalidate this back of an envelope experiment. <br>
Also a Renault 5 is not a 'normal sedan'. It is quite a small hatchback from the 1980ies.</htmltext>
<tokenext>drag scales quadratically with speed , yeah so what .
I dropped the speed by 10 \ % , so the drag dropped by 19 \ % .
Integrating this over the whole 100kph to 90kph has a few \ % error , nothing to invalidate this back of an envelope experiment .
Also a Renault 5 is not a 'normal sedan' .
It is quite a small hatchback from the 1980ies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>drag scales quadratically with speed, yeah so what.
I dropped the speed by 10\%, so the drag dropped by 19\%.
Integrating this over the whole 100kph to 90kph has a few \% error, nothing to invalidate this back of an envelope experiment.
Also a Renault 5 is not a 'normal sedan'.
It is quite a small hatchback from the 1980ies.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28380149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370507</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>Trogre</author>
	<datestamp>1245356460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... unless the plates are only installed on the downramps, where they should be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... unless the plates are only installed on the downramps , where they should be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... unless the plates are only installed on the downramps, where they should be.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370331</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371383</id>
	<title>Re:Let's pave a road with that!</title>
	<author>daveime</author>
	<datestamp>1245321480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have this revolutionary idea for totally green energy.</p><p>If you live on top of Mount Everest, we can install these plates all the way down to the foothills of Tibet, in such a fashion that the energy generated is stored in an "energy reservoir" (which will be about 10km in diameter, and 20km tall, with a big fucking pink Energizer bunny painted on the side).</p><p>Then when I want to return home at Camp VI, I simply charge my electric car (it's GREEN, dontchaknow) from the "battery", and drive home for "free".</p><p>No more pointless "climbing" of the tallest mountain in the world, simply "drive" up and down.</p><p>Limitless energy for everyone in the Himalayas. Will also work for residents of Mount Snowdon, Ben Nevis, and multiple locations in the Lake District.</p><p>For more details of this groundbreaking plan, please send a cheque or bank transfer for $99.99.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have this revolutionary idea for totally green energy.If you live on top of Mount Everest , we can install these plates all the way down to the foothills of Tibet , in such a fashion that the energy generated is stored in an " energy reservoir " ( which will be about 10km in diameter , and 20km tall , with a big fucking pink Energizer bunny painted on the side ) .Then when I want to return home at Camp VI , I simply charge my electric car ( it 's GREEN , dontchaknow ) from the " battery " , and drive home for " free " .No more pointless " climbing " of the tallest mountain in the world , simply " drive " up and down.Limitless energy for everyone in the Himalayas .
Will also work for residents of Mount Snowdon , Ben Nevis , and multiple locations in the Lake District.For more details of this groundbreaking plan , please send a cheque or bank transfer for $ 99.99 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have this revolutionary idea for totally green energy.If you live on top of Mount Everest, we can install these plates all the way down to the foothills of Tibet, in such a fashion that the energy generated is stored in an "energy reservoir" (which will be about 10km in diameter, and 20km tall, with a big fucking pink Energizer bunny painted on the side).Then when I want to return home at Camp VI, I simply charge my electric car (it's GREEN, dontchaknow) from the "battery", and drive home for "free".No more pointless "climbing" of the tallest mountain in the world, simply "drive" up and down.Limitless energy for everyone in the Himalayas.
Will also work for residents of Mount Snowdon, Ben Nevis, and multiple locations in the Lake District.For more details of this groundbreaking plan, please send a cheque or bank transfer for $99.99.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370489</id>
	<title>it's not green</title>
	<author>marvinglenn</author>
	<datestamp>1245356340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>TFA calls it a <i>"green energy project"</i>.  The type of people who think this is <i>green energy</i> are the complete f-ing morons that side track the rest of us from real viable energy advancements.
</p><p>Further more, the TFA claims this will "lower the energy consumption of the market".  At the inefficiency of this (which is already limited to being no more efficient than a car is itself), it will actually <b>increase</b> the energy consumption of the market.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>TFA calls it a " green energy project " .
The type of people who think this is green energy are the complete f-ing morons that side track the rest of us from real viable energy advancements .
Further more , the TFA claims this will " lower the energy consumption of the market " .
At the inefficiency of this ( which is already limited to being no more efficient than a car is itself ) , it will actually increase the energy consumption of the market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TFA calls it a "green energy project".
The type of people who think this is green energy are the complete f-ing morons that side track the rest of us from real viable energy advancements.
Further more, the TFA claims this will "lower the energy consumption of the market".
At the inefficiency of this (which is already limited to being no more efficient than a car is itself), it will actually increase the energy consumption of the market.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370601</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>Heir Of The Mess</author>
	<datestamp>1245357300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In parking stations you often need to pay for parking - they should give you an option, exit the normal way and pay for your parking, or drive to the roof and into a car elevator that lowers you smoothly to the ground generating electricity. A 1500kg car lowered say 100m off a 20 storey parking station would give you 1500kg x 9.8g x 100m =  1500KJ, enough to run a 400W PC for an hour if you got 100\% efficiency out of the thing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In parking stations you often need to pay for parking - they should give you an option , exit the normal way and pay for your parking , or drive to the roof and into a car elevator that lowers you smoothly to the ground generating electricity .
A 1500kg car lowered say 100m off a 20 storey parking station would give you 1500kg x 9.8g x 100m = 1500KJ , enough to run a 400W PC for an hour if you got 100 \ % efficiency out of the thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In parking stations you often need to pay for parking - they should give you an option, exit the normal way and pay for your parking, or drive to the roof and into a car elevator that lowers you smoothly to the ground generating electricity.
A 1500kg car lowered say 100m off a 20 storey parking station would give you 1500kg x 9.8g x 100m =  1500KJ, enough to run a 400W PC for an hour if you got 100\% efficiency out of the thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370331</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370465</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>tonyr60</author>
	<datestamp>1245356220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You said "push down the plate".  And the end of the plate the car has to climb up the distance that it was pushed down.  That climb will require a very small amount of gas in the engine, enough to create enough energy to climb out, plus friction losses and the inherint losses in the car engine.  My guess is that this system will waste about double the energy a good thermal station would use to generate the same amount of electricity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You said " push down the plate " .
And the end of the plate the car has to climb up the distance that it was pushed down .
That climb will require a very small amount of gas in the engine , enough to create enough energy to climb out , plus friction losses and the inherint losses in the car engine .
My guess is that this system will waste about double the energy a good thermal station would use to generate the same amount of electricity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You said "push down the plate".
And the end of the plate the car has to climb up the distance that it was pushed down.
That climb will require a very small amount of gas in the engine, enough to create enough energy to climb out, plus friction losses and the inherint losses in the car engine.
My guess is that this system will waste about double the energy a good thermal station would use to generate the same amount of electricity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370911</id>
	<title>Shock Horror</title>
	<author>gringer</author>
	<datestamp>1245317040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Newsflash! Supermarket requires customers to pay for electricity that the supermarket uses!</p><p>Next you'll be telling me that shop assistant's wages are paid by a small portion of the money that we hand over at the till.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Newsflash !
Supermarket requires customers to pay for electricity that the supermarket uses ! Next you 'll be telling me that shop assistant 's wages are paid by a small portion of the money that we hand over at the till .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Newsflash!
Supermarket requires customers to pay for electricity that the supermarket uses!Next you'll be telling me that shop assistant's wages are paid by a small portion of the money that we hand over at the till.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372607</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>Devout\_IPUite</author>
	<datestamp>1245333540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation\_of\_energy" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation\_of\_energy</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Where do you think the energy that the plate captures comes from? It comes from the kinetic energy of the car (unless you have another suggested source). Kinetic energy of a car is almost always it's forward momentum and nothing else, thus you ARE slowing the car down. To compensate the driver will apply the gas and burn more carbon.</p><p>Why didn't the store just buy solar panels?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation \ _of \ _energy [ wikipedia.org ] Where do you think the energy that the plate captures comes from ?
It comes from the kinetic energy of the car ( unless you have another suggested source ) .
Kinetic energy of a car is almost always it 's forward momentum and nothing else , thus you ARE slowing the car down .
To compensate the driver will apply the gas and burn more carbon.Why did n't the store just buy solar panels ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation\_of\_energy [wikipedia.org]Where do you think the energy that the plate captures comes from?
It comes from the kinetic energy of the car (unless you have another suggested source).
Kinetic energy of a car is almost always it's forward momentum and nothing else, thus you ARE slowing the car down.
To compensate the driver will apply the gas and burn more carbon.Why didn't the store just buy solar panels?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371657</id>
	<title>Recess!</title>
	<author>whipple-spree</author>
	<datestamp>1245324960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Forget cars.  We should line playgrounds with these plates and force kids to "have recess."</htmltext>
<tokenext>Forget cars .
We should line playgrounds with these plates and force kids to " have recess .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forget cars.
We should line playgrounds with these plates and force kids to "have recess.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370593</id>
	<title>Energy isn't free</title>
	<author>AaronW</author>
	<datestamp>1245357180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Basically to generate 30KWH of power requires about 41HP. In this case, the power would come from the car pressing down on the plate, but the car must then use additional power to climb off of the plate. Cars are far less efficient at generating power than a dedicated power plant (ICE is at best around 24\% efficient not counting losses due to the drive train, a power plant is typically over 40\% efficient).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Basically to generate 30KWH of power requires about 41HP .
In this case , the power would come from the car pressing down on the plate , but the car must then use additional power to climb off of the plate .
Cars are far less efficient at generating power than a dedicated power plant ( ICE is at best around 24 \ % efficient not counting losses due to the drive train , a power plant is typically over 40 \ % efficient ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basically to generate 30KWH of power requires about 41HP.
In this case, the power would come from the car pressing down on the plate, but the car must then use additional power to climb off of the plate.
Cars are far less efficient at generating power than a dedicated power plant (ICE is at best around 24\% efficient not counting losses due to the drive train, a power plant is typically over 40\% efficient).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28373599</id>
	<title>Re:Cars waste 95\% of gasoline energy when cruising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245338160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indeed. That's why 2,757.1 MPG figures are posible:</p><p>http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa/aboutshell/media\_center/news\_and\_press\_releases/2009/2009shellecomarathonamericas\_finalresults.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed .
That 's why 2,757.1 MPG figures are posible : http : //www.shell.us/home/content/usa/aboutshell/media \ _center/news \ _and \ _press \ _releases/2009/2009shellecomarathonamericas \ _finalresults.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed.
That's why 2,757.1 MPG figures are posible:http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa/aboutshell/media\_center/news\_and\_press\_releases/2009/2009shellecomarathonamericas\_finalresults.html</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370515</id>
	<title>Let's pave a road with that!</title>
	<author>4D6963</author>
	<datestamp>1245356520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey if you pave a stretch of road with that, make the energy harvested available from a rail along the road and connect the engines of electric cars to that rail, do you get cars that can travel forever without spending any energy? OMG GREEN HOLY GRAIL!!
</p><p>Also, pre-emptive 'whoosh' sound for anyone who wouldn't get it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey if you pave a stretch of road with that , make the energy harvested available from a rail along the road and connect the engines of electric cars to that rail , do you get cars that can travel forever without spending any energy ?
OMG GREEN HOLY GRAIL ! !
Also , pre-emptive 'whoosh ' sound for anyone who would n't get it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey if you pave a stretch of road with that, make the energy harvested available from a rail along the road and connect the engines of electric cars to that rail, do you get cars that can travel forever without spending any energy?
OMG GREEN HOLY GRAIL!!
Also, pre-emptive 'whoosh' sound for anyone who wouldn't get it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372885</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>khallow</author>
	<datestamp>1245334860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ok, so we have someone surreptitiously extracting energy from a bunch of inefficient energy sources (motor vehicles) rather than a more efficient energy source (electric grid). And they call it "green". Now imagine some town paving the road with these things. I bet you'd lose a measurable amount of fuel efficiency if that were to occur.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , so we have someone surreptitiously extracting energy from a bunch of inefficient energy sources ( motor vehicles ) rather than a more efficient energy source ( electric grid ) .
And they call it " green " .
Now imagine some town paving the road with these things .
I bet you 'd lose a measurable amount of fuel efficiency if that were to occur .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, so we have someone surreptitiously extracting energy from a bunch of inefficient energy sources (motor vehicles) rather than a more efficient energy source (electric grid).
And they call it "green".
Now imagine some town paving the road with these things.
I bet you'd lose a measurable amount of fuel efficiency if that were to occur.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370567</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370505</id>
	<title>Not energy generation, but still fine</title>
	<author>rxmd</author>
	<datestamp>1245356400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since people usually slow down anyway when they enter a parking lot, it makes more sense to convert the kinetic energy into something useful than have everybody just brake and convert it into heat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since people usually slow down anyway when they enter a parking lot , it makes more sense to convert the kinetic energy into something useful than have everybody just brake and convert it into heat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since people usually slow down anyway when they enter a parking lot, it makes more sense to convert the kinetic energy into something useful than have everybody just brake and convert it into heat.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370791</id>
	<title>Better uses of a good idea (Stairs)?</title>
	<author>yogibaer</author>
	<datestamp>1245316020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wouldn't it be more useful to integrate such plates (smaller versions of course)  in the stairs of your nearest subway station? Or any other public building? In cities like London, Berlin, Tokio, Paris, New York etc., etc. literally millions of people are using the subway. If you shut down the escalators you could even improve customer health) and generate even more energy!  (just kidding<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)) Seriously though: At the core of the "smart", bidirectional and decnetralized energy  grid of the  future lies  the idea, that every little watt counts and should be consumed where it is produced (and vice versa) and you produce energy form renewable sources in any way possible. TFA says it is a test and as such it should be welcomed as good and creative thinking to be judged based on results (which are not yet available, I presume).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would n't it be more useful to integrate such plates ( smaller versions of course ) in the stairs of your nearest subway station ?
Or any other public building ?
In cities like London , Berlin , Tokio , Paris , New York etc. , etc .
literally millions of people are using the subway .
If you shut down the escalators you could even improve customer health ) and generate even more energy !
( just kidding : - ) ) Seriously though : At the core of the " smart " , bidirectional and decnetralized energy grid of the future lies the idea , that every little watt counts and should be consumed where it is produced ( and vice versa ) and you produce energy form renewable sources in any way possible .
TFA says it is a test and as such it should be welcomed as good and creative thinking to be judged based on results ( which are not yet available , I presume ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wouldn't it be more useful to integrate such plates (smaller versions of course)  in the stairs of your nearest subway station?
Or any other public building?
In cities like London, Berlin, Tokio, Paris, New York etc., etc.
literally millions of people are using the subway.
If you shut down the escalators you could even improve customer health) and generate even more energy!
(just kidding :-)) Seriously though: At the core of the "smart", bidirectional and decnetralized energy  grid of the  future lies  the idea, that every little watt counts and should be consumed where it is produced (and vice versa) and you produce energy form renewable sources in any way possible.
TFA says it is a test and as such it should be welcomed as good and creative thinking to be judged based on results (which are not yet available, I presume).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372147</id>
	<title>Re:Put plates at the bottom of an exit ramp</title>
	<author>Alioth</author>
	<datestamp>1245330180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you look at the picture in the article, the plate is on a flat area, not a downhill ramp. Supermarket car parks are highly notable for not being built on hillsides.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you look at the picture in the article , the plate is on a flat area , not a downhill ramp .
Supermarket car parks are highly notable for not being built on hillsides .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you look at the picture in the article, the plate is on a flat area, not a downhill ramp.
Supermarket car parks are highly notable for not being built on hillsides.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370453</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245356160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Another Point: You ever driven in a parking lot? Count the number of speed bumps you go over. I wonder how "fuel" the stores are "stealing" from you by making you drive slow over these bumps. Replace those with plates. Might actually get some energy while making people drive slower at the same time. What a concept!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Another Point : You ever driven in a parking lot ?
Count the number of speed bumps you go over .
I wonder how " fuel " the stores are " stealing " from you by making you drive slow over these bumps .
Replace those with plates .
Might actually get some energy while making people drive slower at the same time .
What a concept !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another Point: You ever driven in a parking lot?
Count the number of speed bumps you go over.
I wonder how "fuel" the stores are "stealing" from you by making you drive slow over these bumps.
Replace those with plates.
Might actually get some energy while making people drive slower at the same time.
What a concept!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370477</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>mutemutt</author>
	<datestamp>1245356280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's theft!</p></div><p>worse than pickpocketing, it is extremely eco-unfriendly.
generating energy at the expense of an inefficient generator powered by very inefficient mechanical energy sources (cars) fueled by petrol makes no (environmental) sense at all... errr... maybe unless they are expecting an earthquake.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's theft ! worse than pickpocketing , it is extremely eco-unfriendly .
generating energy at the expense of an inefficient generator powered by very inefficient mechanical energy sources ( cars ) fueled by petrol makes no ( environmental ) sense at all... errr... maybe unless they are expecting an earthquake .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's theft!worse than pickpocketing, it is extremely eco-unfriendly.
generating energy at the expense of an inefficient generator powered by very inefficient mechanical energy sources (cars) fueled by petrol makes no (environmental) sense at all... errr... maybe unless they are expecting an earthquake.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370331</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371249</id>
	<title>Re:No such thing as free lunch...</title>
	<author>daveime</author>
	<datestamp>1245320100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes because every road surface sinks 5mm as you drive over it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... idiot.</p><p>Any change in height of the vehicle involves a change in potential energy. This energy has to come from somewhere, therefore every time your car is forced by these plates to become 5mm lower, when regaining that 5mm to climb back up, work is done.</p><p>i.e. no matter how tiny / trivial the change in height, energy is consumed.</p><p>Think of it like this<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... a bank takes 1 cent from every dollar in your savings account. You can argue "oh, it's only a cent", but it all adds up to a whopping great profit for the bank. This is the same thing, only with gas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes because every road surface sinks 5mm as you drive over it ... idiot.Any change in height of the vehicle involves a change in potential energy .
This energy has to come from somewhere , therefore every time your car is forced by these plates to become 5mm lower , when regaining that 5mm to climb back up , work is done.i.e .
no matter how tiny / trivial the change in height , energy is consumed.Think of it like this ... a bank takes 1 cent from every dollar in your savings account .
You can argue " oh , it 's only a cent " , but it all adds up to a whopping great profit for the bank .
This is the same thing , only with gas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes because every road surface sinks 5mm as you drive over it ... idiot.Any change in height of the vehicle involves a change in potential energy.
This energy has to come from somewhere, therefore every time your car is forced by these plates to become 5mm lower, when regaining that 5mm to climb back up, work is done.i.e.
no matter how tiny / trivial the change in height, energy is consumed.Think of it like this ... a bank takes 1 cent from every dollar in your savings account.
You can argue "oh, it's only a cent", but it all adds up to a whopping great profit for the bank.
This is the same thing, only with gas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370913</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372761</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>bcattwoo</author>
	<datestamp>1245334260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think the more likely scenario is that they force you to drive to the top and down the elevator to exit AND make you pay.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the more likely scenario is that they force you to drive to the top and down the elevator to exit AND make you pay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the more likely scenario is that they force you to drive to the top and down the elevator to exit AND make you pay.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370601</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28383629</id>
	<title>Even ignoring the "stealing energy" thing...</title>
	<author>Quackers\_McDuck</author>
	<datestamp>1245332640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It doesn't seem likely that this thing could recoup the cost of installing it in any reasonable timeframe.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It does n't seem likely that this thing could recoup the cost of installing it in any reasonable timeframe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It doesn't seem likely that this thing could recoup the cost of installing it in any reasonable timeframe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28378165</id>
	<title>Re:Cars waste 95\% of gasoline energy when cruising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245355080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're saying that the car lost some amount of energy over 30 seconds when slowing from 100 to 90 kph. Isn't the energy loss dependent on the speed, such that if it were going 100 kph the whole time, the energy input would have been greater than 2.4kW, since it loses more energy at 100 kph? So the question is, how much more energy does it lose per second going at 100 than 90 kph?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're saying that the car lost some amount of energy over 30 seconds when slowing from 100 to 90 kph .
Is n't the energy loss dependent on the speed , such that if it were going 100 kph the whole time , the energy input would have been greater than 2.4kW , since it loses more energy at 100 kph ?
So the question is , how much more energy does it lose per second going at 100 than 90 kph ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're saying that the car lost some amount of energy over 30 seconds when slowing from 100 to 90 kph.
Isn't the energy loss dependent on the speed, such that if it were going 100 kph the whole time, the energy input would have been greater than 2.4kW, since it loses more energy at 100 kph?
So the question is, how much more energy does it lose per second going at 100 than 90 kph?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372397</id>
	<title>Re:Put plates at the bottom of an exit ramp</title>
	<author>codewarren</author>
	<datestamp>1245332100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just to clarify, your brakes convert kinetic energy into heat that is wasted.  If positioned correctly, an uphill plate could do the same work, but generate power instead of waste heat.  So it actually uses what you would have wasted and saves your brakes.  This then wouldn't be a free lunch, it would be one less wasted lunch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just to clarify , your brakes convert kinetic energy into heat that is wasted .
If positioned correctly , an uphill plate could do the same work , but generate power instead of waste heat .
So it actually uses what you would have wasted and saves your brakes .
This then would n't be a free lunch , it would be one less wasted lunch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just to clarify, your brakes convert kinetic energy into heat that is wasted.
If positioned correctly, an uphill plate could do the same work, but generate power instead of waste heat.
So it actually uses what you would have wasted and saves your brakes.
This then wouldn't be a free lunch, it would be one less wasted lunch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370749</id>
	<title>Energy vs Power</title>
	<author>Mr Europe</author>
	<datestamp>1245315660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>30 kWh is something, but how long does it take to collect that? 30 kWh for each car hardly succeeds!<br>It could be calculated for each year, maybe..</p><p>Anyway kWh is a measure of amount of energy, not power. If the plates power would be 30 kW, it would take one hour to collect 30 kWh. But 30 kW is way more than the car normally uses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>30 kWh is something , but how long does it take to collect that ?
30 kWh for each car hardly succeeds ! It could be calculated for each year , maybe..Anyway kWh is a measure of amount of energy , not power .
If the plates power would be 30 kW , it would take one hour to collect 30 kWh .
But 30 kW is way more than the car normally uses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>30 kWh is something, but how long does it take to collect that?
30 kWh for each car hardly succeeds!It could be calculated for each year, maybe..Anyway kWh is a measure of amount of energy, not power.
If the plates power would be 30 kW, it would take one hour to collect 30 kWh.
But 30 kW is way more than the car normally uses.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370461</id>
	<title>Energy Theft!</title>
	<author>blogger11</author>
	<datestamp>1245356220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't this just stealing energy from their customers?  The customers are the ones paying for the extra fuel and wear from these plates...

<a href="http://www.sitelist.ca/" title="sitelist.ca" rel="nofollow">SiteList</a> [sitelist.ca] - The Open Web Directory.  Add Your Site!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't this just stealing energy from their customers ?
The customers are the ones paying for the extra fuel and wear from these plates.. . SiteList [ sitelist.ca ] - The Open Web Directory .
Add Your Site !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't this just stealing energy from their customers?
The customers are the ones paying for the extra fuel and wear from these plates...

SiteList [sitelist.ca] - The Open Web Directory.
Add Your Site!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371161</id>
	<title>Re:Put plates at the bottom of an exit ramp</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245319380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>If the plates are positioned at the bottom of a downhill exit ramp, they will aid drivers braking, prividing kinetic energy without "stealing" drivers fuel. Somehow, I doubt this is where they will be positioned though<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</i>
<p>
Agreed.  Sainburys seems to care about looking green, rather than being green.  At their Kingston store the large Sainsburys sign has a smallish wind turbine and a solar panel attached to it.  Trouble is the wind turbine is positioned between buildings, so it never gets a clear airflow, and the solar panel is positioned facing East.  East?  What were they thinking?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the plates are positioned at the bottom of a downhill exit ramp , they will aid drivers braking , prividing kinetic energy without " stealing " drivers fuel .
Somehow , I doubt this is where they will be positioned though : - ) Agreed .
Sainburys seems to care about looking green , rather than being green .
At their Kingston store the large Sainsburys sign has a smallish wind turbine and a solar panel attached to it .
Trouble is the wind turbine is positioned between buildings , so it never gets a clear airflow , and the solar panel is positioned facing East .
East ? What were they thinking ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the plates are positioned at the bottom of a downhill exit ramp, they will aid drivers braking, prividing kinetic energy without "stealing" drivers fuel.
Somehow, I doubt this is where they will be positioned though :-)

Agreed.
Sainburys seems to care about looking green, rather than being green.
At their Kingston store the large Sainsburys sign has a smallish wind turbine and a solar panel attached to it.
Trouble is the wind turbine is positioned between buildings, so it never gets a clear airflow, and the solar panel is positioned facing East.
East?  What were they thinking?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28375475</id>
	<title>Seriously stupid</title>
	<author>logfish</author>
	<datestamp>1245345900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously the stupidest thing I have ever seen. As all the above posts have already stated: the energy will come from the car, and thus form fuel. If you take it away from people (by putting the plate at the store entrance) I would consider that a nice experiment. This, however, is just plain stupid.</p><p>They may as well have customers park their cars in break-test rollers!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously the stupidest thing I have ever seen .
As all the above posts have already stated : the energy will come from the car , and thus form fuel .
If you take it away from people ( by putting the plate at the store entrance ) I would consider that a nice experiment .
This , however , is just plain stupid.They may as well have customers park their cars in break-test rollers !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously the stupidest thing I have ever seen.
As all the above posts have already stated: the energy will come from the car, and thus form fuel.
If you take it away from people (by putting the plate at the store entrance) I would consider that a nice experiment.
This, however, is just plain stupid.They may as well have customers park their cars in break-test rollers!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28374309</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>mpeskett</author>
	<datestamp>1245341220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Driving a car to the roof of a carpark just so they can be lowered down again would be a horribly inefficient way to generate power. It'd be exactly like the worst possible us of these road plates, but on a massive scale.
</p><p>Now if they were to install such an elevator on the side of an existing multilevel car park, and use it to extract energy from cars that were going to be making the journey up and down anyway, <em>then</em> you might have something worthwhile. Except for the part where you've got to haul the platform back up to the top of the carpark when the car's driven off (you could have a pair that go up/down in tandem, but it's still a cost to the system). And the part where you can't just let the car freefall all the way down (the people in the car might be a bit unhappy about the sudden stop at the bottom) so you'd have to spend energy on keeping it at a safe speed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Driving a car to the roof of a carpark just so they can be lowered down again would be a horribly inefficient way to generate power .
It 'd be exactly like the worst possible us of these road plates , but on a massive scale .
Now if they were to install such an elevator on the side of an existing multilevel car park , and use it to extract energy from cars that were going to be making the journey up and down anyway , then you might have something worthwhile .
Except for the part where you 've got to haul the platform back up to the top of the carpark when the car 's driven off ( you could have a pair that go up/down in tandem , but it 's still a cost to the system ) .
And the part where you ca n't just let the car freefall all the way down ( the people in the car might be a bit unhappy about the sudden stop at the bottom ) so you 'd have to spend energy on keeping it at a safe speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Driving a car to the roof of a carpark just so they can be lowered down again would be a horribly inefficient way to generate power.
It'd be exactly like the worst possible us of these road plates, but on a massive scale.
Now if they were to install such an elevator on the side of an existing multilevel car park, and use it to extract energy from cars that were going to be making the journey up and down anyway, then you might have something worthwhile.
Except for the part where you've got to haul the platform back up to the top of the carpark when the car's driven off (you could have a pair that go up/down in tandem, but it's still a cost to the system).
And the part where you can't just let the car freefall all the way down (the people in the car might be a bit unhappy about the sudden stop at the bottom) so you'd have to spend energy on keeping it at a safe speed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370601</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370425</id>
	<title>It depends</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245355920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the energy is just coming from what would normally be wasted as heat from the car's brakes etc, then it really is 'free'. Imagine it  (Ideally) like this, instead of braking to get into the parking spot, you roll up a slight incline, the car slows and the plate 'gets' some energy due to the weight of the car pushing on it. The driver did not have to use the brakes as much or at all, so less heat was lost, and that energy went to the system instead of going off as heat.<br>Obviously this is an ideal scenario, but you can see how you can transfer energy in this way WITHOUT it being parasitic or 'costing' the car driver as all previous posters so angrily assumed.</p><p>Driving a car wastes tremendous amounts of energy, a lot of it as heat from the brakes, radiator  etc.<br>If some of this can be transparently recovered (even though in this case it's probably a minuscule amount of what is wasted) , then everybody wins.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the energy is just coming from what would normally be wasted as heat from the car 's brakes etc , then it really is 'free' .
Imagine it ( Ideally ) like this , instead of braking to get into the parking spot , you roll up a slight incline , the car slows and the plate 'gets ' some energy due to the weight of the car pushing on it .
The driver did not have to use the brakes as much or at all , so less heat was lost , and that energy went to the system instead of going off as heat.Obviously this is an ideal scenario , but you can see how you can transfer energy in this way WITHOUT it being parasitic or 'costing ' the car driver as all previous posters so angrily assumed.Driving a car wastes tremendous amounts of energy , a lot of it as heat from the brakes , radiator etc.If some of this can be transparently recovered ( even though in this case it 's probably a minuscule amount of what is wasted ) , then everybody wins .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the energy is just coming from what would normally be wasted as heat from the car's brakes etc, then it really is 'free'.
Imagine it  (Ideally) like this, instead of braking to get into the parking spot, you roll up a slight incline, the car slows and the plate 'gets' some energy due to the weight of the car pushing on it.
The driver did not have to use the brakes as much or at all, so less heat was lost, and that energy went to the system instead of going off as heat.Obviously this is an ideal scenario, but you can see how you can transfer energy in this way WITHOUT it being parasitic or 'costing' the car driver as all previous posters so angrily assumed.Driving a car wastes tremendous amounts of energy, a lot of it as heat from the brakes, radiator  etc.If some of this can be transparently recovered (even though in this case it's probably a minuscule amount of what is wasted) , then everybody wins.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370537</id>
	<title>Pigeon powered cables</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245356700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've got a better idea (TM). <br> <br>

1) Stick dynamos at each pole, with telephone cables wound around the spinning thingie<br>
2) pigeon alights on cable, causing cable to stretch, and dynamo to spin<br>
3) pigeon takes off, dynamo spins again in other direction<br>
4) $$$profit$$</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've got a better idea ( TM ) .
1 ) Stick dynamos at each pole , with telephone cables wound around the spinning thingie 2 ) pigeon alights on cable , causing cable to stretch , and dynamo to spin 3 ) pigeon takes off , dynamo spins again in other direction 4 ) $ $ $ profit $ $</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've got a better idea (TM).
1) Stick dynamos at each pole, with telephone cables wound around the spinning thingie
2) pigeon alights on cable, causing cable to stretch, and dynamo to spin
3) pigeon takes off, dynamo spins again in other direction
4) $$$profit$$</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370331</id>
	<title>It's not generation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245268560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's theft!</p><p>By using these devices, they are stealing energy from the drivers. While one driver may not notice, as a whole, fuel usage is being diverted from all who drive over these things.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's theft ! By using these devices , they are stealing energy from the drivers .
While one driver may not notice , as a whole , fuel usage is being diverted from all who drive over these things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's theft!By using these devices, they are stealing energy from the drivers.
While one driver may not notice, as a whole, fuel usage is being diverted from all who drive over these things.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371127</id>
	<title>Re:Put plates at the bottom of an exit ramp</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245318960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br>(Incidentally... a similar idea was to build tram / light-rail stations on the top of small hills. Thus gravity assists the train in braking and accelerating away from teh station)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>A lot of the London Underground tube stations are built like that, with a gradient up to the platform and down away from it, for the same energy-saving reason.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... ( Incidentally... a similar idea was to build tram / light-rail stations on the top of small hills .
Thus gravity assists the train in braking and accelerating away from teh station ) ...A lot of the London Underground tube stations are built like that , with a gradient up to the platform and down away from it , for the same energy-saving reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...(Incidentally... a similar idea was to build tram / light-rail stations on the top of small hills.
Thus gravity assists the train in braking and accelerating away from teh station) ...A lot of the London Underground tube stations are built like that, with a gradient up to the platform and down away from it, for the same energy-saving reason.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28376281</id>
	<title>Re:it's not green</title>
	<author>thwack328</author>
	<datestamp>1245348900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does "the TFA" say anything about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS\_syndrome" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">RAS syndrome</a> [wikipedia.org]?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does " the TFA " say anything about RAS syndrome [ wikipedia.org ] ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does "the TFA" say anything about RAS syndrome [wikipedia.org]?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370489</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28384943</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>Workaphobia</author>
	<datestamp>1245341520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It really is irrelevant whether the garage is above or below ground, so long as it's not *at* ground level. If they don't get you going in they'll get you coming out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It really is irrelevant whether the garage is above or below ground , so long as it 's not * at * ground level .
If they do n't get you going in they 'll get you coming out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It really is irrelevant whether the garage is above or below ground, so long as it's not *at* ground level.
If they don't get you going in they'll get you coming out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370667</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371837</id>
	<title>Re:Supermarket, doofus</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245326940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hehe... "market". Some people have an appalling grasp of English.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hehe... " market " . Some people have an appalling grasp of English .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hehe... "market". Some people have an appalling grasp of English.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370423</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371513</id>
	<title>Re:No such thing as free lunch...</title>
	<author>digitalchinky</author>
	<datestamp>1245323220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And then when I go and skim a single insignificant cent off each 'entire bank account' they want to throw me in jail<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-( Pricks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And then when I go and skim a single insignificant cent off each 'entire bank account ' they want to throw me in jail : - ( Pricks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And then when I go and skim a single insignificant cent off each 'entire bank account' they want to throw me in jail :-( Pricks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371927</id>
	<title>Re:Put plates at the bottom of an exit ramp</title>
	<author>nasor</author>
	<datestamp>1245327960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unless you have a hybrid with regenerative braking, in which case they are still taking energy that should have been "yours" from you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless you have a hybrid with regenerative braking , in which case they are still taking energy that should have been " yours " from you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless you have a hybrid with regenerative braking, in which case they are still taking energy that should have been "yours" from you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370605</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372303</id>
	<title>Re:Cars waste 95\% of gasoline energy when cruising</title>
	<author>schmiddy</author>
	<datestamp>1245331440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Very interesting experiment. I'd like to see someone post results over several speeds though -- you covered 100 km/h down to 90 km/h only. Note that at highway speeds, air resistance is probably by far the biggest friction your car is facing, and also that the energy you lose to air resistance <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag\_(physics)" title="wikipedia.org">goes up with the <b>cube</b> of your velocity</a> [wikipedia.org] -- so perhaps traveling at somewhat slower speeds will improve your overall system efficiency.
</p><p>(You'd have to come up with new gasoline consumption figures if you tried this at different speeds; your figure of 1.3 ml/second was presumably for speeds ~100 km/h)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Very interesting experiment .
I 'd like to see someone post results over several speeds though -- you covered 100 km/h down to 90 km/h only .
Note that at highway speeds , air resistance is probably by far the biggest friction your car is facing , and also that the energy you lose to air resistance goes up with the cube of your velocity [ wikipedia.org ] -- so perhaps traveling at somewhat slower speeds will improve your overall system efficiency .
( You 'd have to come up with new gasoline consumption figures if you tried this at different speeds ; your figure of 1.3 ml/second was presumably for speeds ~ 100 km/h )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very interesting experiment.
I'd like to see someone post results over several speeds though -- you covered 100 km/h down to 90 km/h only.
Note that at highway speeds, air resistance is probably by far the biggest friction your car is facing, and also that the energy you lose to air resistance goes up with the cube of your velocity [wikipedia.org] -- so perhaps traveling at somewhat slower speeds will improve your overall system efficiency.
(You'd have to come up with new gasoline consumption figures if you tried this at different speeds; your figure of 1.3 ml/second was presumably for speeds ~100 km/h)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370783</id>
	<title>Just converting kinetic energy into electrical</title>
	<author>theodicey</author>
	<datestamp>1245315960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>
<p>Probably 2/3 of the comments so far seem to think this is some kind of perpetual motion machine con. Those people should be embarrassed.</p><p>It's not. It's simple. It's just slowing cars by converting kinetic energy into electrical, instead of dissipating it as heat in the brakes or converting it to potential energy like a speed bump.</p><p>There was a discussion a while back, I think here on Slashdot, about a device that used a revolving door to generate energy. It prompted exactly the same comments. What these people didn't seem to realize is, revolving doors have brakes, and that device replaces the brakes. Same damn thing.</p><p>Do you really think the engineers who designed this device didn't think it through? This reminds me why it's never a good idea to discuss physics on Slashdot. I leave it to psychologists to explain why there are so many kneejerk contrarians.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably 2/3 of the comments so far seem to think this is some kind of perpetual motion machine con .
Those people should be embarrassed.It 's not .
It 's simple .
It 's just slowing cars by converting kinetic energy into electrical , instead of dissipating it as heat in the brakes or converting it to potential energy like a speed bump.There was a discussion a while back , I think here on Slashdot , about a device that used a revolving door to generate energy .
It prompted exactly the same comments .
What these people did n't seem to realize is , revolving doors have brakes , and that device replaces the brakes .
Same damn thing.Do you really think the engineers who designed this device did n't think it through ?
This reminds me why it 's never a good idea to discuss physics on Slashdot .
I leave it to psychologists to explain why there are so many kneejerk contrarians .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Probably 2/3 of the comments so far seem to think this is some kind of perpetual motion machine con.
Those people should be embarrassed.It's not.
It's simple.
It's just slowing cars by converting kinetic energy into electrical, instead of dissipating it as heat in the brakes or converting it to potential energy like a speed bump.There was a discussion a while back, I think here on Slashdot, about a device that used a revolving door to generate energy.
It prompted exactly the same comments.
What these people didn't seem to realize is, revolving doors have brakes, and that device replaces the brakes.
Same damn thing.Do you really think the engineers who designed this device didn't think it through?
This reminds me why it's never a good idea to discuss physics on Slashdot.
I leave it to psychologists to explain why there are so many kneejerk contrarians.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370369</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>Digestromath</author>
	<datestamp>1245355440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What if they could hook a device up to your engine block, and siphon off all the stored heat residing inside and use it to heat thier water?  Its useful free energy (not withstanding the energy required to build such a system).  And it would provide a valueable service.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What if they could hook a device up to your engine block , and siphon off all the stored heat residing inside and use it to heat thier water ?
Its useful free energy ( not withstanding the energy required to build such a system ) .
And it would provide a valueable service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if they could hook a device up to your engine block, and siphon off all the stored heat residing inside and use it to heat thier water?
Its useful free energy (not withstanding the energy required to build such a system).
And it would provide a valueable service.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370311</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370415</id>
	<title>Insignificant</title>
	<author>phildriscoll</author>
	<datestamp>1245355860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Even it wasn't stealing energy from the cars, we are in 'drop in the ocean' territory.
Nice analysis <a href="http://withouthotair.blogspot.com/2009/06/one-percent-rule-leading-to-patriotic.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">here</a> [blogspot.com].</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even it was n't stealing energy from the cars , we are in 'drop in the ocean ' territory .
Nice analysis here [ blogspot.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even it wasn't stealing energy from the cars, we are in 'drop in the ocean' territory.
Nice analysis here [blogspot.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370609</id>
	<title>Green if it's for parking</title>
	<author>non0score</author>
	<datestamp>1245357300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I suppose as long as they install it only in the parking spaces where the cars are coming to a stop anyway, then it wouldn't really be stealing from the drivers/cars. It'd also help them save on their brakes as well.<br>
<br>
Then again, this is Slashdot, so someone's going to point out that people may not park right the first time, or that they may be driving across parking spaces to get to the other side instead of on the designated driving lanes, etc...I guess I'll shut up now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I suppose as long as they install it only in the parking spaces where the cars are coming to a stop anyway , then it would n't really be stealing from the drivers/cars .
It 'd also help them save on their brakes as well .
Then again , this is Slashdot , so someone 's going to point out that people may not park right the first time , or that they may be driving across parking spaces to get to the other side instead of on the designated driving lanes , etc...I guess I 'll shut up now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suppose as long as they install it only in the parking spaces where the cars are coming to a stop anyway, then it wouldn't really be stealing from the drivers/cars.
It'd also help them save on their brakes as well.
Then again, this is Slashdot, so someone's going to point out that people may not park right the first time, or that they may be driving across parking spaces to get to the other side instead of on the designated driving lanes, etc...I guess I'll shut up now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28374601</id>
	<title>Re:Put plates at the bottom of an exit ramp</title>
	<author>mpeskett</author>
	<datestamp>1245342360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>East?  What were they thinking?</p></div><p>I would imagine they were thinking about making their solar panel and wind turbine more visible by putting them on the sign. Then they didn't think about the position of the sign with respect to the buildings, and found the only way to attach a solar panel to the sign was to have it east-facing. Then they also didn't think about that being a bad idea.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>East ?
What were they thinking ? I would imagine they were thinking about making their solar panel and wind turbine more visible by putting them on the sign .
Then they did n't think about the position of the sign with respect to the buildings , and found the only way to attach a solar panel to the sign was to have it east-facing .
Then they also did n't think about that being a bad idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>East?
What were they thinking?I would imagine they were thinking about making their solar panel and wind turbine more visible by putting them on the sign.
Then they didn't think about the position of the sign with respect to the buildings, and found the only way to attach a solar panel to the sign was to have it east-facing.
Then they also didn't think about that being a bad idea.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371161</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370527</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245356580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So it'd be the same as dropping a giant stone on the plate? Free perpetual energy? No? Then where is the energy coming from? Remember those pesky laws that keep perpetual motion machine from working?</p><p>The energy doesn't come from gravity but rather from the potential energy of the car via gravity. The car has to gain that energy from the kinetic energy of it's engine somehow since nothing is free.</p><p>Let's say the plate is 1cm above the ground with no car on it. The car's engine exert extra energy to raise the car onto that 1cm plate. The plate then falls and takes that energy from the car by dropping it back to it's previous height. Had the plate not been there the car would not have used the gas needed to generate the energy to raise it 1cm against gravity.</p><p>Sort of sad how little physics is taught in school nowadays that people actually believe energy can come from essentially nowhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So it 'd be the same as dropping a giant stone on the plate ?
Free perpetual energy ?
No ? Then where is the energy coming from ?
Remember those pesky laws that keep perpetual motion machine from working ? The energy does n't come from gravity but rather from the potential energy of the car via gravity .
The car has to gain that energy from the kinetic energy of it 's engine somehow since nothing is free.Let 's say the plate is 1cm above the ground with no car on it .
The car 's engine exert extra energy to raise the car onto that 1cm plate .
The plate then falls and takes that energy from the car by dropping it back to it 's previous height .
Had the plate not been there the car would not have used the gas needed to generate the energy to raise it 1cm against gravity.Sort of sad how little physics is taught in school nowadays that people actually believe energy can come from essentially nowhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So it'd be the same as dropping a giant stone on the plate?
Free perpetual energy?
No? Then where is the energy coming from?
Remember those pesky laws that keep perpetual motion machine from working?The energy doesn't come from gravity but rather from the potential energy of the car via gravity.
The car has to gain that energy from the kinetic energy of it's engine somehow since nothing is free.Let's say the plate is 1cm above the ground with no car on it.
The car's engine exert extra energy to raise the car onto that 1cm plate.
The plate then falls and takes that energy from the car by dropping it back to it's previous height.
Had the plate not been there the car would not have used the gas needed to generate the energy to raise it 1cm against gravity.Sort of sad how little physics is taught in school nowadays that people actually believe energy can come from essentially nowhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370307</id>
	<title>shitfuck</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245268320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370667</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>deroby</author>
	<datestamp>1245358200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Although I agree with you and all posters above, from what I get from the article this is just (an expensive ?) way to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/create/ energy in an extremely inefficient way.</p><p>That said, I do wonder if it wouldn't be possible to somehow harvest some "free" energy from such a system, assuming the car-park is BELOW GROUND.</p><p>=&gt; assuming the car-park is located below ground, the car will need to drive down a ramp anyway<br>=&gt; if we replace that ramp with a series of 'steps' that are "pushed up" by an internal spring-system, when in 'neutral', each next step is 10 cm lower than the previous one.<br>=&gt; the car will arrive at ground level (0), drive on the fist step and the step will "sink" say 10 cm.<br>=&gt; as a result, the step is now level with the second step, and the car simply drives on it "horizontally"<br>=&gt; again, step 2 will sink about 10 cm due to the weight of the car, while step 1 veers back up because of the internal springs</p><p>rinse &amp; repeat...</p><p>I guess it'd probably be 'more efficient' to have 1 giant step that goes down the full 3m or so, but it would make the process more cumbersome (drive on, wait, drive off, wait for platform to rise again etc..), while the 'steps' in fact can simultaneously function as a speed-lowering device (if you drive down to fast, the steps will not have time to be pushed in completely and you're in for a 'shocking' ride).</p><p>Off course this still 'steals' away some of the car's fuel as you now need to "drive the whole way down horizontally" instead of just coasting down, but then again at least some of the braking power would be converted to useful energy instead of heat.</p><p>just my 2 cents...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Although I agree with you and all posters above , from what I get from the article this is just ( an expensive ?
) way to /create/ energy in an extremely inefficient way.That said , I do wonder if it would n't be possible to somehow harvest some " free " energy from such a system , assuming the car-park is BELOW GROUND. = &gt; assuming the car-park is located below ground , the car will need to drive down a ramp anyway = &gt; if we replace that ramp with a series of 'steps ' that are " pushed up " by an internal spring-system , when in 'neutral ' , each next step is 10 cm lower than the previous one. = &gt; the car will arrive at ground level ( 0 ) , drive on the fist step and the step will " sink " say 10 cm. = &gt; as a result , the step is now level with the second step , and the car simply drives on it " horizontally " = &gt; again , step 2 will sink about 10 cm due to the weight of the car , while step 1 veers back up because of the internal springsrinse &amp; repeat...I guess it 'd probably be 'more efficient ' to have 1 giant step that goes down the full 3m or so , but it would make the process more cumbersome ( drive on , wait , drive off , wait for platform to rise again etc.. ) , while the 'steps ' in fact can simultaneously function as a speed-lowering device ( if you drive down to fast , the steps will not have time to be pushed in completely and you 're in for a 'shocking ' ride ) .Off course this still 'steals ' away some of the car 's fuel as you now need to " drive the whole way down horizontally " instead of just coasting down , but then again at least some of the braking power would be converted to useful energy instead of heat.just my 2 cents.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Although I agree with you and all posters above, from what I get from the article this is just (an expensive ?
) way to /create/ energy in an extremely inefficient way.That said, I do wonder if it wouldn't be possible to somehow harvest some "free" energy from such a system, assuming the car-park is BELOW GROUND.=&gt; assuming the car-park is located below ground, the car will need to drive down a ramp anyway=&gt; if we replace that ramp with a series of 'steps' that are "pushed up" by an internal spring-system, when in 'neutral', each next step is 10 cm lower than the previous one.=&gt; the car will arrive at ground level (0), drive on the fist step and the step will "sink" say 10 cm.=&gt; as a result, the step is now level with the second step, and the car simply drives on it "horizontally"=&gt; again, step 2 will sink about 10 cm due to the weight of the car, while step 1 veers back up because of the internal springsrinse &amp; repeat...I guess it'd probably be 'more efficient' to have 1 giant step that goes down the full 3m or so, but it would make the process more cumbersome (drive on, wait, drive off, wait for platform to rise again etc..), while the 'steps' in fact can simultaneously function as a speed-lowering device (if you drive down to fast, the steps will not have time to be pushed in completely and you're in for a 'shocking' ride).Off course this still 'steals' away some of the car's fuel as you now need to "drive the whole way down horizontally" instead of just coasting down, but then again at least some of the braking power would be converted to useful energy instead of heat.just my 2 cents...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370527</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370397</id>
	<title>One Word.</title>
	<author>polar red</author>
	<datestamp>1245355740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Greenwash</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Greenwash</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Greenwash</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370447</id>
	<title>This is so stupid it hurts</title>
	<author>Timo\_UK</author>
	<datestamp>1245356040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>As many other commented, the energy comes off course from the petrol engine of the cars.
1. The efficiency of this system from petrol to electricity must be really low
2. It creates pollution right where you don't want it, in the city: Exhaust fumes plus tire wear</htmltext>
<tokenext>As many other commented , the energy comes off course from the petrol engine of the cars .
1. The efficiency of this system from petrol to electricity must be really low 2 .
It creates pollution right where you do n't want it , in the city : Exhaust fumes plus tire wear</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As many other commented, the energy comes off course from the petrol engine of the cars.
1. The efficiency of this system from petrol to electricity must be really low
2.
It creates pollution right where you don't want it, in the city: Exhaust fumes plus tire wear</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28385253</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245345660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>car engines are typically measured in horsepower rather than in kilowatts. </p></div><p>
Hello America, rest of the world here. Just thought I'd let you know, we already do measure engine power in kilowatts (and torque in newton-metres!)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>car engines are typically measured in horsepower rather than in kilowatts .
Hello America , rest of the world here .
Just thought I 'd let you know , we already do measure engine power in kilowatts ( and torque in newton-metres !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>car engines are typically measured in horsepower rather than in kilowatts.
Hello America, rest of the world here.
Just thought I'd let you know, we already do measure engine power in kilowatts (and torque in newton-metres!
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370567</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371677</id>
	<title>What makes you think people want to brake there?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245325260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They might be coasting to the other side of the carpark or leaving it altogether , in which case if this slows them down too much they'll hit the throttle before they brake again.</p><p>This wasn't designed by engineers to be green , it was designed as greenwash with the supermarket saving a few quid off their electricity bills in the process.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They might be coasting to the other side of the carpark or leaving it altogether , in which case if this slows them down too much they 'll hit the throttle before they brake again.This was n't designed by engineers to be green , it was designed as greenwash with the supermarket saving a few quid off their electricity bills in the process .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They might be coasting to the other side of the carpark or leaving it altogether , in which case if this slows them down too much they'll hit the throttle before they brake again.This wasn't designed by engineers to be green , it was designed as greenwash with the supermarket saving a few quid off their electricity bills in the process.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28374143</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1245340500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you're sapping energy from an <em>extremely inefficient</em> machine? Doesn't that mean that for the tiny amount of energy you get, a whole lot of energy will be wasted in producing it?</p><p>It's green, though. Green! Keep telling yourself that!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you 're sapping energy from an extremely inefficient machine ?
Does n't that mean that for the tiny amount of energy you get , a whole lot of energy will be wasted in producing it ? It 's green , though .
Green ! Keep telling yourself that !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you're sapping energy from an extremely inefficient machine?
Doesn't that mean that for the tiny amount of energy you get, a whole lot of energy will be wasted in producing it?It's green, though.
Green! Keep telling yourself that!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370567</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370423</id>
	<title>Supermarket, doofus</title>
	<author>jginspace</author>
	<datestamp>1245355920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>England market produces green energy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Sainsbury&#226;(TM)s market of England has installed &#226;kinetic energy&#226;(TM) plates in the parking lot of it&#226;(TM)s store in Gloucester.</p></div><p>What atrocious writing. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sainsbury's" title="wikipedia.org"> Sainsbury's</a> [wikipedia.org] is a <b>supermarket</b>.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>England market produces green energy ... Sainsbury   ( TM ) s market of England has installed   kinetic energy   ( TM ) plates in the parking lot of it   ( TM ) s store in Gloucester.What atrocious writing .
Sainsbury 's [ wikipedia.org ] is a supermarket .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>England market produces green energy ... Sainsburyâ(TM)s market of England has installed âkinetic energyâ(TM) plates in the parking lot of itâ(TM)s store in Gloucester.What atrocious writing.
Sainsbury's [wikipedia.org] is a supermarket.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370769</id>
	<title>Re:RTFA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245315840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I do not know, but somebody did use this stick on you, obviously...<br>
Read the other comments and gain some insight into the energy conservation concept: no energy can be produced by a force alone, energy is produced (or expanded) by moving a point under force (energy is generated if you go with the force, expanded if you go against it).
<br>
<br>
What happens is that extra energy is needed from the engine when the car climb to go on the plate.<br>
Then, the car push the plate down, going  back to the ground level, and this energy (minus some, due to inefficiencies) is harvested by the shop. In other words, stealed by the shop...<br>
You can turn it the the other way around: you can go on the plate, go down generating energy, then repay it when going up away from the plate, but the principle remain: the energy gained (and used by the shop)
comes from extra work (happening before, after or during the passage of the car on those plates) by the car engine....which will use oil to do so...oil paid by the driver. Thus, theft. <br>
The fact that this energy could have been lost in braking or other is irrelevant, except if we add a new legal notion that theft is not really theft if the thing stolen was not used by its owner.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do not know , but somebody did use this stick on you , obviously.. . Read the other comments and gain some insight into the energy conservation concept : no energy can be produced by a force alone , energy is produced ( or expanded ) by moving a point under force ( energy is generated if you go with the force , expanded if you go against it ) .
What happens is that extra energy is needed from the engine when the car climb to go on the plate .
Then , the car push the plate down , going back to the ground level , and this energy ( minus some , due to inefficiencies ) is harvested by the shop .
In other words , stealed by the shop.. . You can turn it the the other way around : you can go on the plate , go down generating energy , then repay it when going up away from the plate , but the principle remain : the energy gained ( and used by the shop ) comes from extra work ( happening before , after or during the passage of the car on those plates ) by the car engine....which will use oil to do so...oil paid by the driver .
Thus , theft .
The fact that this energy could have been lost in braking or other is irrelevant , except if we add a new legal notion that theft is not really theft if the thing stolen was not used by its owner .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do not know, but somebody did use this stick on you, obviously...
Read the other comments and gain some insight into the energy conservation concept: no energy can be produced by a force alone, energy is produced (or expanded) by moving a point under force (energy is generated if you go with the force, expanded if you go against it).
What happens is that extra energy is needed from the engine when the car climb to go on the plate.
Then, the car push the plate down, going  back to the ground level, and this energy (minus some, due to inefficiencies) is harvested by the shop.
In other words, stealed by the shop...
You can turn it the the other way around: you can go on the plate, go down generating energy, then repay it when going up away from the plate, but the principle remain: the energy gained (and used by the shop)
comes from extra work (happening before, after or during the passage of the car on those plates) by the car engine....which will use oil to do so...oil paid by the driver.
Thus, theft.
The fact that this energy could have been lost in braking or other is irrelevant, except if we add a new legal notion that theft is not really theft if the thing stolen was not used by its owner.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370381</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370473</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>Unipuma</author>
	<datestamp>1245356280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since this method converts potential energy into kinetic energy (the car pushing down), this means your car will be moving from a higher position to a lower position, losing it's potential energy.</p><p>Since your car has to drive out of the 'pit' it was lowered into, when the plate came down, your car has to expend the energy necessary to climb back out of that 'pit'.</p><p>So your car is directly providing the energy to power this plate system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since this method converts potential energy into kinetic energy ( the car pushing down ) , this means your car will be moving from a higher position to a lower position , losing it 's potential energy.Since your car has to drive out of the 'pit ' it was lowered into , when the plate came down , your car has to expend the energy necessary to climb back out of that 'pit'.So your car is directly providing the energy to power this plate system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since this method converts potential energy into kinetic energy (the car pushing down), this means your car will be moving from a higher position to a lower position, losing it's potential energy.Since your car has to drive out of the 'pit' it was lowered into, when the plate came down, your car has to expend the energy necessary to climb back out of that 'pit'.So your car is directly providing the energy to power this plate system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28373437</id>
	<title>Typo in text, no change in outcome</title>
	<author>slashbart</author>
	<datestamp>1245337440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My text says 717kJ delta, but that is 71.7 kJ. I used the correct number to reach 2.4kW.<br>
I stand by my conclusion that if we could apply 2.4kW with 100\% efficiency to the wheels, we could keep this car going steady at 100kph on a flat road with no wind.<br>
Major losses are: 1) the engine itself, at best some 25\%, when running at optimal load, 2) the gearbox and stuff, 3) auxiliary loads (alternator, airco).<br>
You can see from this whole calculation that air drag and such are hardly important.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My text says 717kJ delta , but that is 71.7 kJ .
I used the correct number to reach 2.4kW .
I stand by my conclusion that if we could apply 2.4kW with 100 \ % efficiency to the wheels , we could keep this car going steady at 100kph on a flat road with no wind .
Major losses are : 1 ) the engine itself , at best some 25 \ % , when running at optimal load , 2 ) the gearbox and stuff , 3 ) auxiliary loads ( alternator , airco ) .
You can see from this whole calculation that air drag and such are hardly important .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My text says 717kJ delta, but that is 71.7 kJ.
I used the correct number to reach 2.4kW.
I stand by my conclusion that if we could apply 2.4kW with 100\% efficiency to the wheels, we could keep this car going steady at 100kph on a flat road with no wind.
Major losses are: 1) the engine itself, at best some 25\%, when running at optimal load, 2) the gearbox and stuff, 3) auxiliary loads (alternator, airco).
You can see from this whole calculation that air drag and such are hardly important.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28373947</id>
	<title>Re:No such thing as free lunch...</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1245339720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So basically they are using their customers fuel to power their store and call that "green".</p></div><p>No... they're using their customers' fuel to run an inefficient gasoline engine to power an inefficient electric generator and calling <em>THAT</em> green.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So basically they are using their customers fuel to power their store and call that " green " .No... they 're using their customers ' fuel to run an inefficient gasoline engine to power an inefficient electric generator and calling THAT green .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So basically they are using their customers fuel to power their store and call that "green".No... they're using their customers' fuel to run an inefficient gasoline engine to power an inefficient electric generator and calling THAT green.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371849</id>
	<title>This is just theft</title>
	<author>1s44c</author>
	<datestamp>1245327120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; The plates create as much as 30 kWh of energy as cars drive over them</p><p>That should read 'The plates steal up to 30kWh of energy that their own customers have paid for'.</p><p>Whats the next business plan? Tapping into the huge reserves of free hubcaps?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; The plates create as much as 30 kWh of energy as cars drive over themThat should read 'The plates steal up to 30kWh of energy that their own customers have paid for'.Whats the next business plan ?
Tapping into the huge reserves of free hubcaps ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; The plates create as much as 30 kWh of energy as cars drive over themThat should read 'The plates steal up to 30kWh of energy that their own customers have paid for'.Whats the next business plan?
Tapping into the huge reserves of free hubcaps?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371227</id>
	<title>Quick question</title>
	<author>ArbiterShadow</author>
	<datestamp>1245319860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Um. Who supplies the energy to make the plates go back up?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Um .
Who supplies the energy to make the plates go back up ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um.
Who supplies the energy to make the plates go back up?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371125</id>
	<title>A better link</title>
	<author>damburger</author>
	<datestamp>1245318960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jun/15/sainsburys-kinetic-plates-speed-bumps</p><p>This makes it clear the plates are supposed to generate 30kWh per hour, rather than per car (but I can't help thinking, whats wrong with simply saying 30kW?) This version of the article also points out that the energy is not free and does in fact come from the cars.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jun/15/sainsburys-kinetic-plates-speed-bumpsThis makes it clear the plates are supposed to generate 30kWh per hour , rather than per car ( but I ca n't help thinking , whats wrong with simply saying 30kW ?
) This version of the article also points out that the energy is not free and does in fact come from the cars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jun/15/sainsburys-kinetic-plates-speed-bumpsThis makes it clear the plates are supposed to generate 30kWh per hour, rather than per car (but I can't help thinking, whats wrong with simply saying 30kW?
) This version of the article also points out that the energy is not free and does in fact come from the cars.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370367</id>
	<title>What kind of journalism is this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245355440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The kinetic plates are only one of many green energy projects that Sainsbury&#226;(TM)s hopes to incorporate in its stores". Yeah, because generating electricity from combustion engines operating in a very inefficient regime is fantastically green...</p><p>If this had been the average journalist I'd have given credit for ignorance, but this guys bio says that he's an "energy technology examiner", a "student in robotics" "working on a new process for harnessing wind energy" who hopes to make "a huge impact one day in the field of science."</p><p>I think he has a little way to go...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The kinetic plates are only one of many green energy projects that Sainsbury   ( TM ) s hopes to incorporate in its stores " .
Yeah , because generating electricity from combustion engines operating in a very inefficient regime is fantastically green...If this had been the average journalist I 'd have given credit for ignorance , but this guys bio says that he 's an " energy technology examiner " , a " student in robotics " " working on a new process for harnessing wind energy " who hopes to make " a huge impact one day in the field of science .
" I think he has a little way to go.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The kinetic plates are only one of many green energy projects that Sainsburyâ(TM)s hopes to incorporate in its stores".
Yeah, because generating electricity from combustion engines operating in a very inefficient regime is fantastically green...If this had been the average journalist I'd have given credit for ignorance, but this guys bio says that he's an "energy technology examiner", a "student in robotics" "working on a new process for harnessing wind energy" who hopes to make "a huge impact one day in the field of science.
"I think he has a little way to go...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370413</id>
	<title>it reminds me</title>
	<author>serbanp</author>
	<datestamp>1245355800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>of the anecdote about Franklin and his entrance door. When a friend complained about how difficult was to push that door, Franklin explained that the door was connected to a ground pump and every time someone opened the door, 2 gallons of water were extracted as well...</htmltext>
<tokenext>of the anecdote about Franklin and his entrance door .
When a friend complained about how difficult was to push that door , Franklin explained that the door was connected to a ground pump and every time someone opened the door , 2 gallons of water were extracted as well.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>of the anecdote about Franklin and his entrance door.
When a friend complained about how difficult was to push that door, Franklin explained that the door was connected to a ground pump and every time someone opened the door, 2 gallons of water were extracted as well...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371901</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245327720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You are not stealing any energy from the car at all. This argument is ludicrous. It is using the force of gravity to push down the plates.</p></div><p>God you are DUMB. Did you drop out of school at age 12 or something?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are not stealing any energy from the car at all .
This argument is ludicrous .
It is using the force of gravity to push down the plates.God you are DUMB .
Did you drop out of school at age 12 or something ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are not stealing any energy from the car at all.
This argument is ludicrous.
It is using the force of gravity to push down the plates.God you are DUMB.
Did you drop out of school at age 12 or something?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28374559</id>
	<title>Re:RTFA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245342180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There is never, and WILL never be a free ride, all power comes from somewhere.</p></div><p>You're assuming the universe can't be hacked. I'm not sure how yet, but I've been attempting it with dance moves... Left, Right, Up, Down, L, R, Start, etc.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is never , and WILL never be a free ride , all power comes from somewhere.You 're assuming the universe ca n't be hacked .
I 'm not sure how yet , but I 've been attempting it with dance moves... Left , Right , Up , Down , L , R , Start , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is never, and WILL never be a free ride, all power comes from somewhere.You're assuming the universe can't be hacked.
I'm not sure how yet, but I've been attempting it with dance moves... Left, Right, Up, Down, L, R, Start, etc.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370487</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371569</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245324180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our most efficient cars are just as efficient in generating "useless" heat energy as they are turning our tires.  So yes extracting heat from the engine (just not too much) and putting it useful work is an excellent idea.</p><p>On the other hand sapping energy from moving vechicles is a selfish endeavour that does not positivly contribute to society.  People can justify being selfish till they turn blue in face but it doesn't change the fact that they are still selfish.</p><p>I always believed that with the advent of hybrids it would be practical to build gas engines out of ceramics and raise the internal temperature since they were no longer directly connected to the drive it should be practical to manufacture?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our most efficient cars are just as efficient in generating " useless " heat energy as they are turning our tires .
So yes extracting heat from the engine ( just not too much ) and putting it useful work is an excellent idea.On the other hand sapping energy from moving vechicles is a selfish endeavour that does not positivly contribute to society .
People can justify being selfish till they turn blue in face but it does n't change the fact that they are still selfish.I always believed that with the advent of hybrids it would be practical to build gas engines out of ceramics and raise the internal temperature since they were no longer directly connected to the drive it should be practical to manufacture ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our most efficient cars are just as efficient in generating "useless" heat energy as they are turning our tires.
So yes extracting heat from the engine (just not too much) and putting it useful work is an excellent idea.On the other hand sapping energy from moving vechicles is a selfish endeavour that does not positivly contribute to society.
People can justify being selfish till they turn blue in face but it doesn't change the fact that they are still selfish.I always believed that with the advent of hybrids it would be practical to build gas engines out of ceramics and raise the internal temperature since they were no longer directly connected to the drive it should be practical to manufacture?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370369</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28381561</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245323280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is assuming the street is horizontal.</p><p>If the car is downhill then this system may be in effect transforming Potential energy into energy. That is, you throw your car without brakes down the hill and get to the base of the hill at the same speed. The difference in potential energy was converted to electricity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is assuming the street is horizontal.If the car is downhill then this system may be in effect transforming Potential energy into energy .
That is , you throw your car without brakes down the hill and get to the base of the hill at the same speed .
The difference in potential energy was converted to electricity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is assuming the street is horizontal.If the car is downhill then this system may be in effect transforming Potential energy into energy.
That is, you throw your car without brakes down the hill and get to the base of the hill at the same speed.
The difference in potential energy was converted to electricity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370473</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28387661</id>
	<title>They just steal the energy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245414600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think this is just stealing some energy from your not-so-green car.</p><p>How green this is depends on how green your car is - the usual car is very inefficient utilizing energy.</p><p>It might be a lot more efficient and green to hook up the market to some large scale power-plant.</p><p>Or?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think this is just stealing some energy from your not-so-green car.How green this is depends on how green your car is - the usual car is very inefficient utilizing energy.It might be a lot more efficient and green to hook up the market to some large scale power-plant.Or ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think this is just stealing some energy from your not-so-green car.How green this is depends on how green your car is - the usual car is very inefficient utilizing energy.It might be a lot more efficient and green to hook up the market to some large scale power-plant.Or?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370383</id>
	<title>leeching energy from cars</title>
	<author>nadaou</author>
	<datestamp>1245355620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course there is no free energy here. In other words the store is leeching a small amount of petrol energy from all the cars and trucks that drive over it, a little bit at a time. Due to efficiency losses this is a net loss for everyone. Gee, thanks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course there is no free energy here .
In other words the store is leeching a small amount of petrol energy from all the cars and trucks that drive over it , a little bit at a time .
Due to efficiency losses this is a net loss for everyone .
Gee , thanks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course there is no free energy here.
In other words the store is leeching a small amount of petrol energy from all the cars and trucks that drive over it, a little bit at a time.
Due to efficiency losses this is a net loss for everyone.
Gee, thanks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370987</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>nmg196</author>
	<datestamp>1245317700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; You are not stealing any energy from the car at all. This argument is ludicrous.</p><p>For the plates to produce energy, they must move. For them to move, something else must excert energy on them. That energy comes from the car. If the car drove over a flat horizontal plate which doesn't move, minimal energy is required. For a car to drive up a raised plate in order to push it down, far more energy is used, which is produced by burning fuel in the car's engine.  Gravity is not energy, but the plates can take energy from a car 'falling' or pushing down on plates which have been previously raised. The car had to use extra energy to drive up the raised plates. Energy HAS to come from somewhere - they teach you this at age 10-15 depending on your school, so you're either younger than that, or you didn't take physics, or you were daydreaming<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>&gt; Combustion engines are inherently inefficient to begin with.</p><p>Which is precisely why this whole idea is so stupid. They're powering their store with electricity by burning petrol just outside gleamed from thousands of different cars entering their car park. Thousands of extra gallons of fuel will be burnt each yeah (spread over millions of cars) just to produce a few kilowatts of electricity. It's a total joke and damaging to the environment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; You are not stealing any energy from the car at all .
This argument is ludicrous.For the plates to produce energy , they must move .
For them to move , something else must excert energy on them .
That energy comes from the car .
If the car drove over a flat horizontal plate which does n't move , minimal energy is required .
For a car to drive up a raised plate in order to push it down , far more energy is used , which is produced by burning fuel in the car 's engine .
Gravity is not energy , but the plates can take energy from a car 'falling ' or pushing down on plates which have been previously raised .
The car had to use extra energy to drive up the raised plates .
Energy HAS to come from somewhere - they teach you this at age 10-15 depending on your school , so you 're either younger than that , or you did n't take physics , or you were daydreaming : ) &gt; Combustion engines are inherently inefficient to begin with.Which is precisely why this whole idea is so stupid .
They 're powering their store with electricity by burning petrol just outside gleamed from thousands of different cars entering their car park .
Thousands of extra gallons of fuel will be burnt each yeah ( spread over millions of cars ) just to produce a few kilowatts of electricity .
It 's a total joke and damaging to the environment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; You are not stealing any energy from the car at all.
This argument is ludicrous.For the plates to produce energy, they must move.
For them to move, something else must excert energy on them.
That energy comes from the car.
If the car drove over a flat horizontal plate which doesn't move, minimal energy is required.
For a car to drive up a raised plate in order to push it down, far more energy is used, which is produced by burning fuel in the car's engine.
Gravity is not energy, but the plates can take energy from a car 'falling' or pushing down on plates which have been previously raised.
The car had to use extra energy to drive up the raised plates.
Energy HAS to come from somewhere - they teach you this at age 10-15 depending on your school, so you're either younger than that, or you didn't take physics, or you were daydreaming :)&gt; Combustion engines are inherently inefficient to begin with.Which is precisely why this whole idea is so stupid.
They're powering their store with electricity by burning petrol just outside gleamed from thousands of different cars entering their car park.
Thousands of extra gallons of fuel will be burnt each yeah (spread over millions of cars) just to produce a few kilowatts of electricity.
It's a total joke and damaging to the environment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370641</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245357720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>they are stealing energy from the drivers</i></p><p>Yeah, right on bro. Wit ya' all da way. And don't forget about dem speedhumps, they do it too. An those breathalysers used by the cops, they steal our hard-earned alcohol too.</p><p>Only us motorists has the right to expect sumfin' fur nuthin'</p><p>Remember - motoring is the true light of Socialism.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they are stealing energy from the driversYeah , right on bro .
Wit ya ' all da way .
And do n't forget about dem speedhumps , they do it too .
An those breathalysers used by the cops , they steal our hard-earned alcohol too.Only us motorists has the right to expect sumfin ' fur nuthin'Remember - motoring is the true light of Socialism .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they are stealing energy from the driversYeah, right on bro.
Wit ya' all da way.
And don't forget about dem speedhumps, they do it too.
An those breathalysers used by the cops, they steal our hard-earned alcohol too.Only us motorists has the right to expect sumfin' fur nuthin'Remember - motoring is the true light of Socialism.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370331</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370679</id>
	<title>This reminds me a story used in Superman</title>
	<author>ls671</author>
	<datestamp>1245358380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This reminds me a story where the guy stole fractions of cents from each Bank Account. Nobody noticed !</p><p>Who is going to stop going to that market because of this highly imperceptible extra charge ? In this perspective it is ingenious. But can you imagine cities going this route in low speed limit zones ? Where will it stop ?</p><p>Energy saving wise, it is no good, gas motor would use that energy more efficiently, there is always a lost when you transfer one form of energy to another.</p><p>As for the guy who stole fractions of cents from the bank he was working at, he got caught by making to many expensive purchases, buying expensive cars to his family members, etc. so they finally investigated him because he was working at a bank. If I recall right, this story was borrowed by one of the Superman movies, but it occurred for real before that. It was then double fun to see it in Superman.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This reminds me a story where the guy stole fractions of cents from each Bank Account .
Nobody noticed ! Who is going to stop going to that market because of this highly imperceptible extra charge ?
In this perspective it is ingenious .
But can you imagine cities going this route in low speed limit zones ?
Where will it stop ? Energy saving wise , it is no good , gas motor would use that energy more efficiently , there is always a lost when you transfer one form of energy to another.As for the guy who stole fractions of cents from the bank he was working at , he got caught by making to many expensive purchases , buying expensive cars to his family members , etc .
so they finally investigated him because he was working at a bank .
If I recall right , this story was borrowed by one of the Superman movies , but it occurred for real before that .
It was then double fun to see it in Superman .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>This reminds me a story where the guy stole fractions of cents from each Bank Account.
Nobody noticed !Who is going to stop going to that market because of this highly imperceptible extra charge ?
In this perspective it is ingenious.
But can you imagine cities going this route in low speed limit zones ?
Where will it stop ?Energy saving wise, it is no good, gas motor would use that energy more efficiently, there is always a lost when you transfer one form of energy to another.As for the guy who stole fractions of cents from the bank he was working at, he got caught by making to many expensive purchases, buying expensive cars to his family members, etc.
so they finally investigated him because he was working at a bank.
If I recall right, this story was borrowed by one of the Superman movies, but it occurred for real before that.
It was then double fun to see it in Superman.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28375025</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>gwait</author>
	<datestamp>1245344100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It can be directly measured - look at the claimed output of the electrical generators attached.</p><p>If it was a trivial amount of energy, it would not be worth doing in the first place, ignoring the fact that the energy is being drained from inefficient gas engines in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It can be directly measured - look at the claimed output of the electrical generators attached.If it was a trivial amount of energy , it would not be worth doing in the first place , ignoring the fact that the energy is being drained from inefficient gas engines in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It can be directly measured - look at the claimed output of the electrical generators attached.If it was a trivial amount of energy, it would not be worth doing in the first place, ignoring the fact that the energy is being drained from inefficient gas engines in the first place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370567</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371507</id>
	<title>KISS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245323100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Neat toy, but too complicated to be useful. If you want to generate net energy you generally have to keep it simple, stupid. The energy generated by this particular system will likely never return even a percent of the extra energy used to build and repair it. If it lasts for 5 years between repairs, which I doubt, it will generate 5*30 = 150 kWh of energy. The repairman that comes to repair the system every five years will burn hundreds of MWh worth of fuel while driving to and from the store...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Neat toy , but too complicated to be useful .
If you want to generate net energy you generally have to keep it simple , stupid .
The energy generated by this particular system will likely never return even a percent of the extra energy used to build and repair it .
If it lasts for 5 years between repairs , which I doubt , it will generate 5 * 30 = 150 kWh of energy .
The repairman that comes to repair the system every five years will burn hundreds of MWh worth of fuel while driving to and from the store.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Neat toy, but too complicated to be useful.
If you want to generate net energy you generally have to keep it simple, stupid.
The energy generated by this particular system will likely never return even a percent of the extra energy used to build and repair it.
If it lasts for 5 years between repairs, which I doubt, it will generate 5*30 = 150 kWh of energy.
The repairman that comes to repair the system every five years will burn hundreds of MWh worth of fuel while driving to and from the store...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370731</id>
	<title>Re:Supermarket, doofus</title>
	<author>BigZee</author>
	<datestamp>1245358740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Quiet true. And it also doesn't have a parking lot either, it has a car park.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Quiet true .
And it also does n't have a parking lot either , it has a car park .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quiet true.
And it also doesn't have a parking lot either, it has a car park.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370423</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370655</id>
	<title>Not to bitch and moan but,...</title>
	<author>SpaghettiPattern</author>
	<datestamp>1245358020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't want to bitch or moan. But isn't that just stealing energy from cars?<br>
There's no such thing as free energy. It probably will cost cars extra to drive over the plates. That is, the 30 kWh come from fossil fuel. Way to go!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't want to bitch or moan .
But is n't that just stealing energy from cars ?
There 's no such thing as free energy .
It probably will cost cars extra to drive over the plates .
That is , the 30 kWh come from fossil fuel .
Way to go !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't want to bitch or moan.
But isn't that just stealing energy from cars?
There's no such thing as free energy.
It probably will cost cars extra to drive over the plates.
That is, the 30 kWh come from fossil fuel.
Way to go!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372233</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>smoker2</author>
	<datestamp>1245330840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Having looked at the pictures in TFA, the plate doesn't seem too efficient. If they had small depressable ramps like in car park entrances then the momentum of the car would depress the ramp, even if you turned the engine off. As you are supposed to be stopping anyway, you've not wasted the energy in heat on the brakes, just transferred it to the ramp and the generator. You already used the fuel to get up to speed, you need no more to slow down.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Having looked at the pictures in TFA , the plate does n't seem too efficient .
If they had small depressable ramps like in car park entrances then the momentum of the car would depress the ramp , even if you turned the engine off .
As you are supposed to be stopping anyway , you 've not wasted the energy in heat on the brakes , just transferred it to the ramp and the generator .
You already used the fuel to get up to speed , you need no more to slow down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having looked at the pictures in TFA, the plate doesn't seem too efficient.
If they had small depressable ramps like in car park entrances then the momentum of the car would depress the ramp, even if you turned the engine off.
As you are supposed to be stopping anyway, you've not wasted the energy in heat on the brakes, just transferred it to the ramp and the generator.
You already used the fuel to get up to speed, you need no more to slow down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370987</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28376369</id>
	<title>Re:Cars waste 95\% of gasoline energy when cruising</title>
	<author>geoncic</author>
	<datestamp>1245349200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can not calculate the energy it takes to keep your car at 100 km/hr the way you did.

<p>'an object in motion stays in motion'

</p><p>So, the forces your car has to overcome are drag and frictional forces.

</p><p> Drag can be approximated, but I don't have the equations in from of me. Drag = f(cross-section, velocity).. but it neglects the actual shape of the car, so is not very accurate.

</p><p> Frictional forces are another monster and can only be determined expirementally. This may be able to be done by some sort of home-made dyno while the car is in neutral, but not the way you have done it...

</p><p> From that point, you could calculate your mpg and your drivetrain efficiency at that given speed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can not calculate the energy it takes to keep your car at 100 km/hr the way you did .
'an object in motion stays in motion ' So , the forces your car has to overcome are drag and frictional forces .
Drag can be approximated , but I do n't have the equations in from of me .
Drag = f ( cross-section , velocity ) .. but it neglects the actual shape of the car , so is not very accurate .
Frictional forces are another monster and can only be determined expirementally .
This may be able to be done by some sort of home-made dyno while the car is in neutral , but not the way you have done it.. . From that point , you could calculate your mpg and your drivetrain efficiency at that given speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can not calculate the energy it takes to keep your car at 100 km/hr the way you did.
'an object in motion stays in motion'

So, the forces your car has to overcome are drag and frictional forces.
Drag can be approximated, but I don't have the equations in from of me.
Drag = f(cross-section, velocity).. but it neglects the actual shape of the car, so is not very accurate.
Frictional forces are another monster and can only be determined expirementally.
This may be able to be done by some sort of home-made dyno while the car is in neutral, but not the way you have done it...

 From that point, you could calculate your mpg and your drivetrain efficiency at that given speed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370421</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>Kickboy12</author>
	<datestamp>1245355860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are not stealing any energy from the car at all. This argument is ludicrous. It is using the force of gravity to push down the plates. The friction on this surface would probably be equal to that of the normal pavement. Meaning your car is going to expend this energy anyway. In no way does this actually take any measurable amount of energy from the car itself. This is a very poorly thought out argument in my opinion.</p><p>Besides... how efficient is the car-to-pavement transfer of energy anyway? Combustion engines are inherently inefficient to begin with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are not stealing any energy from the car at all .
This argument is ludicrous .
It is using the force of gravity to push down the plates .
The friction on this surface would probably be equal to that of the normal pavement .
Meaning your car is going to expend this energy anyway .
In no way does this actually take any measurable amount of energy from the car itself .
This is a very poorly thought out argument in my opinion.Besides... how efficient is the car-to-pavement transfer of energy anyway ?
Combustion engines are inherently inefficient to begin with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are not stealing any energy from the car at all.
This argument is ludicrous.
It is using the force of gravity to push down the plates.
The friction on this surface would probably be equal to that of the normal pavement.
Meaning your car is going to expend this energy anyway.
In no way does this actually take any measurable amount of energy from the car itself.
This is a very poorly thought out argument in my opinion.Besides... how efficient is the car-to-pavement transfer of energy anyway?
Combustion engines are inherently inefficient to begin with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370311</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370767</id>
	<title>Frosty Plates in the chill cabinet, maybe?</title>
	<author>hcpxvi</author>
	<datestamp>1245315840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But seriously, to what extent is this a gain, given that the energy "produced" must all originate in the petrol tanks of the cars visiting the supermarket. I suppose that it is a double gain for the supermarket in that they get some free electricity and also get to sell a bit more of the petrol that makes it.

Or can it be shown that the power generated would otherwise have all been lost in braking for the speed-bumps in the car park?</htmltext>
<tokenext>But seriously , to what extent is this a gain , given that the energy " produced " must all originate in the petrol tanks of the cars visiting the supermarket .
I suppose that it is a double gain for the supermarket in that they get some free electricity and also get to sell a bit more of the petrol that makes it .
Or can it be shown that the power generated would otherwise have all been lost in braking for the speed-bumps in the car park ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But seriously, to what extent is this a gain, given that the energy "produced" must all originate in the petrol tanks of the cars visiting the supermarket.
I suppose that it is a double gain for the supermarket in that they get some free electricity and also get to sell a bit more of the petrol that makes it.
Or can it be shown that the power generated would otherwise have all been lost in braking for the speed-bumps in the car park?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371419</id>
	<title>Re:It's not generation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245321900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some numbers for comparison: A cyclist produces about 100W to drive at 15mph. A gallon of fuel is about 40kWh, so a cyclist gets about 6000 miles per gallon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some numbers for comparison : A cyclist produces about 100W to drive at 15mph .
A gallon of fuel is about 40kWh , so a cyclist gets about 6000 miles per gallon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some numbers for comparison: A cyclist produces about 100W to drive at 15mph.
A gallon of fuel is about 40kWh, so a cyclist gets about 6000 miles per gallon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370567</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370329</id>
	<title>No such thing as free lunch...</title>
	<author>Mindcontrolled</author>
	<datestamp>1245268560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And the work for pressing the plates down is done by what? Maybe, that could be, uhmm... the cars driving over them, yes? So basically they are using their customers fuel to power their store and call that "green". Way to go, guys.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And the work for pressing the plates down is done by what ?
Maybe , that could be , uhmm... the cars driving over them , yes ?
So basically they are using their customers fuel to power their store and call that " green " .
Way to go , guys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the work for pressing the plates down is done by what?
Maybe, that could be, uhmm... the cars driving over them, yes?
So basically they are using their customers fuel to power their store and call that "green".
Way to go, guys.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371801</id>
	<title>Re:No such thing as free lunch...</title>
	<author>gnasher719</author>
	<datestamp>1245326640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Yes because every road surface sinks 5mm as you drive over it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... idiot.</p></div><p>You can try the effect by driving over a surface covered with sand. It sinks when you drive over it. It takes a lot more fuel to drive over sand than over an asphalt road. One reason why trains use relatively less fuel is that they drive on a steel surface on steel wheels that give less than your combination of asphalt + rubber tires. <br> <br>
It is very rare that I am braking in a parking lot. Usually the car is just rolling when possible, with the kinetic energy of the car eaten up as it rolls but also keeping the engine running with \_no\_ fuel consumption at all; from time to time I need fuel again to regain speed or keep the speed constant before I get too slow. These plates would eat up my cars kinetic energy and force me to use the engine and waste fuel more of the time. The effect is small, so I don't lose much fuel, and they don't gain much energy. This doesn't change the fact that their gain is my loss.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes because every road surface sinks 5mm as you drive over it ... idiot.You can try the effect by driving over a surface covered with sand .
It sinks when you drive over it .
It takes a lot more fuel to drive over sand than over an asphalt road .
One reason why trains use relatively less fuel is that they drive on a steel surface on steel wheels that give less than your combination of asphalt + rubber tires .
It is very rare that I am braking in a parking lot .
Usually the car is just rolling when possible , with the kinetic energy of the car eaten up as it rolls but also keeping the engine running with \ _no \ _ fuel consumption at all ; from time to time I need fuel again to regain speed or keep the speed constant before I get too slow .
These plates would eat up my cars kinetic energy and force me to use the engine and waste fuel more of the time .
The effect is small , so I do n't lose much fuel , and they do n't gain much energy .
This does n't change the fact that their gain is my loss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes because every road surface sinks 5mm as you drive over it ... idiot.You can try the effect by driving over a surface covered with sand.
It sinks when you drive over it.
It takes a lot more fuel to drive over sand than over an asphalt road.
One reason why trains use relatively less fuel is that they drive on a steel surface on steel wheels that give less than your combination of asphalt + rubber tires.
It is very rare that I am braking in a parking lot.
Usually the car is just rolling when possible, with the kinetic energy of the car eaten up as it rolls but also keeping the engine running with \_no\_ fuel consumption at all; from time to time I need fuel again to regain speed or keep the speed constant before I get too slow.
These plates would eat up my cars kinetic energy and force me to use the engine and waste fuel more of the time.
The effect is small, so I don't lose much fuel, and they don't gain much energy.
This doesn't change the fact that their gain is my loss.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28384917</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>Workaphobia</author>
	<datestamp>1245341280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I didn't RTFA, but it's not inconceivable that for a multi-level parking lot you could make a one-way descending lift that lowered a car at constant velocity instead of letting that potential energy go to waste through non-regenerative breaking.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did n't RTFA , but it 's not inconceivable that for a multi-level parking lot you could make a one-way descending lift that lowered a car at constant velocity instead of letting that potential energy go to waste through non-regenerative breaking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn't RTFA, but it's not inconceivable that for a multi-level parking lot you could make a one-way descending lift that lowered a car at constant velocity instead of letting that potential energy go to waste through non-regenerative breaking.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370527</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28376493</id>
	<title>Re:What makes you think people want to brake there</title>
	<author>je ne sais quoi</author>
	<datestamp>1245349680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>They might be coasting to the other side of the carpark or leaving it altogether , in which case if this slows them down too much they'll hit the throttle before they brake again.</p></div></blockquote><p>

They "might be"?  Sure, they might walk or bike to the store too, which is pretty damn energy efficient... but most don't.  If a substantial portion of the population were coasting, they would not need speed bumps to begin with.  The fact that the speed bumps ARE necessary means most people don't coast and there is a net gain of energy efficiency here assuming the kinetic plate liberates more energy than it consumes during its creation, installation and maintenance.  Granted, the gain in efficiency is that the store is using some of the energy the cars needlessly generated, but people do lots of stupid things they shouldn't while driving their cars.  Think of it as trying to salvage an inherently flawed system to make it more efficient.
<br> <br>The GP is right, slashdot is full of contrarians sometimes.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They might be coasting to the other side of the carpark or leaving it altogether , in which case if this slows them down too much they 'll hit the throttle before they brake again .
They " might be " ?
Sure , they might walk or bike to the store too , which is pretty damn energy efficient... but most do n't .
If a substantial portion of the population were coasting , they would not need speed bumps to begin with .
The fact that the speed bumps ARE necessary means most people do n't coast and there is a net gain of energy efficiency here assuming the kinetic plate liberates more energy than it consumes during its creation , installation and maintenance .
Granted , the gain in efficiency is that the store is using some of the energy the cars needlessly generated , but people do lots of stupid things they should n't while driving their cars .
Think of it as trying to salvage an inherently flawed system to make it more efficient .
The GP is right , slashdot is full of contrarians sometimes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They might be coasting to the other side of the carpark or leaving it altogether , in which case if this slows them down too much they'll hit the throttle before they brake again.
They "might be"?
Sure, they might walk or bike to the store too, which is pretty damn energy efficient... but most don't.
If a substantial portion of the population were coasting, they would not need speed bumps to begin with.
The fact that the speed bumps ARE necessary means most people don't coast and there is a net gain of energy efficiency here assuming the kinetic plate liberates more energy than it consumes during its creation, installation and maintenance.
Granted, the gain in efficiency is that the store is using some of the energy the cars needlessly generated, but people do lots of stupid things they shouldn't while driving their cars.
Think of it as trying to salvage an inherently flawed system to make it more efficient.
The GP is right, slashdot is full of contrarians sometimes.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370605</id>
	<title>Put plates at the bottom of an exit ramp</title>
	<author>SomethingOrOther</author>
	<datestamp>1245357300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><br> <br>
For those who are rightly saying this energy isn't free...<br>
If the plates are positioned at the bottom of a downhill exit ramp, they will aid drivers braking, prividing kinetic energy without "stealing" drivers fuel. Somehow, I doubt this is where they will be positioned though<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)<br> <br>
(Incidentally... a similar idea was to build tram / light-rail stations on the top of small hills. Thus gravity assists the train in braking and accelerating away from teh station)<br> <br>
Oh and Sainsburys is a British Supermarket, not an English Market..... Big difference !</htmltext>
<tokenext>For those who are rightly saying this energy is n't free.. . If the plates are positioned at the bottom of a downhill exit ramp , they will aid drivers braking , prividing kinetic energy without " stealing " drivers fuel .
Somehow , I doubt this is where they will be positioned though : - ) ( Incidentally... a similar idea was to build tram / light-rail stations on the top of small hills .
Thus gravity assists the train in braking and accelerating away from teh station ) Oh and Sainsburys is a British Supermarket , not an English Market..... Big difference !</tokentext>
<sentencetext> 
For those who are rightly saying this energy isn't free...
If the plates are positioned at the bottom of a downhill exit ramp, they will aid drivers braking, prividing kinetic energy without "stealing" drivers fuel.
Somehow, I doubt this is where they will be positioned though :-) 
(Incidentally... a similar idea was to build tram / light-rail stations on the top of small hills.
Thus gravity assists the train in braking and accelerating away from teh station) 
Oh and Sainsburys is a British Supermarket, not an English Market..... Big difference !</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28374189</id>
	<title>Force calculation shows same result.</title>
	<author>slashbart</author>
	<datestamp>1245340740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Another way to calculate this:<br>
I lost 3 m/s in 30 seconds, so my deceleration is 0.1m/s^2. The car weighs 900kg, so F= 90N. If I had applied 90N, the car would have stayed at speed.
90N * 28m/s = 2.5kW. Same figure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Another way to calculate this : I lost 3 m/s in 30 seconds , so my deceleration is 0.1m/s ^ 2 .
The car weighs 900kg , so F = 90N .
If I had applied 90N , the car would have stayed at speed .
90N * 28m/s = 2.5kW .
Same figure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another way to calculate this:
I lost 3 m/s in 30 seconds, so my deceleration is 0.1m/s^2.
The car weighs 900kg, so F= 90N.
If I had applied 90N, the car would have stayed at speed.
90N * 28m/s = 2.5kW.
Same figure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28372473</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370523</id>
	<title>Re:useful energy is not free</title>
	<author>snookums</author>
	<datestamp>1245356580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You are not stealing any energy from the car at all. This argument is ludicrous. It is using the force of gravity to push down the plates.</p></div><p>If the energy doesn't come from the car, where does it come from? You can't say it comes from gravity, that makes no sense. In order for gravity to do work, the object in question (the car) has to fall through some distance (work = force x displacement). In order to fall, it must have been lifted. How was it lifted? By the engine</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are not stealing any energy from the car at all .
This argument is ludicrous .
It is using the force of gravity to push down the plates.If the energy does n't come from the car , where does it come from ?
You ca n't say it comes from gravity , that makes no sense .
In order for gravity to do work , the object in question ( the car ) has to fall through some distance ( work = force x displacement ) .
In order to fall , it must have been lifted .
How was it lifted ?
By the engine</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are not stealing any energy from the car at all.
This argument is ludicrous.
It is using the force of gravity to push down the plates.If the energy doesn't come from the car, where does it come from?
You can't say it comes from gravity, that makes no sense.
In order for gravity to do work, the object in question (the car) has to fall through some distance (work = force x displacement).
In order to fall, it must have been lifted.
How was it lifted?
By the engine
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370421</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_18_004237_47</id>
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http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28370421
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_18_004237_26</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_18_004237_31</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_18_004237_14</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_18_004237_16</id>
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http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_18_004237.28371353
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_18_004237_8</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_18_004237_30</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_18_004237_21</id>
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