<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_15_1641219</id>
	<title>Broke Counties Turn Failing Roads To Gravel</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1245091080000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>To save money, more than 20 Michigan counties have decided to turn <a href="http://www.wwmt.com/articles/roads-1363526-mich-counties.html">deteriorating paved roads back to gravel</a>. Montcalm County estimates that repaving a road costs more than $100,000 a mile. Grinding the same mile of road up and turning it into gravel costs $10,000. At least 50 miles of road have been reverted to gravel in Michigan the past three years. I can't wait until we revert back to whale oil lighting and can finally be rid of this electricity fad.</htmltext>
<tokenext>To save money , more than 20 Michigan counties have decided to turn deteriorating paved roads back to gravel .
Montcalm County estimates that repaving a road costs more than $ 100,000 a mile .
Grinding the same mile of road up and turning it into gravel costs $ 10,000 .
At least 50 miles of road have been reverted to gravel in Michigan the past three years .
I ca n't wait until we revert back to whale oil lighting and can finally be rid of this electricity fad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To save money, more than 20 Michigan counties have decided to turn deteriorating paved roads back to gravel.
Montcalm County estimates that repaving a road costs more than $100,000 a mile.
Grinding the same mile of road up and turning it into gravel costs $10,000.
At least 50 miles of road have been reverted to gravel in Michigan the past three years.
I can't wait until we revert back to whale oil lighting and can finally be rid of this electricity fad.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339249</id>
	<title>Re:Electricity and whale oil lighting?</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1245097860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; At least gravel is better for the environment, isn't it?</p><p>Road graders use a lot of diesel fuel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; At least gravel is better for the environment , is n't it ? Road graders use a lot of diesel fuel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; At least gravel is better for the environment, isn't it?Road graders use a lot of diesel fuel.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338371</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338311</id>
	<title>Michigan is fucked</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1245094740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Real shame about that.  Nice people and beautiful country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Real shame about that .
Nice people and beautiful country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Real shame about that.
Nice people and beautiful country.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341815</id>
	<title>They want 4000$ to repave my driveway.</title>
	<author>purduephotog</author>
	<datestamp>1245066540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My driveway is 2 car wide, 2 car long- so 1 mile, 100,000$ = 19$/foot.  Most of the quotes I've gotten want 4K to redo it. 50 feet is just under 1k.</p><p>Anyways....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My driveway is 2 car wide , 2 car long- so 1 mile , 100,000 $ = 19 $ /foot .
Most of the quotes I 've gotten want 4K to redo it .
50 feet is just under 1k.Anyways... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My driveway is 2 car wide, 2 car long- so 1 mile, 100,000$ = 19$/foot.
Most of the quotes I've gotten want 4K to redo it.
50 feet is just under 1k.Anyways....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339011</id>
	<title>Back to Amish ways</title>
	<author>Neanderthal Ninny</author>
	<datestamp>1245097080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How fast we have fallen and how great was that fall.<br>Wall Street is a terrorist organization that make Al Queda looks like street gang. We all have fallen for that Wall Street male bovine feces that they have spewing for so many years that neglected to check on the facts on that selling us roast beef but all it was male bovine feces.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How fast we have fallen and how great was that fall.Wall Street is a terrorist organization that make Al Queda looks like street gang .
We all have fallen for that Wall Street male bovine feces that they have spewing for so many years that neglected to check on the facts on that selling us roast beef but all it was male bovine feces .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How fast we have fallen and how great was that fall.Wall Street is a terrorist organization that make Al Queda looks like street gang.
We all have fallen for that Wall Street male bovine feces that they have spewing for so many years that neglected to check on the facts on that selling us roast beef but all it was male bovine feces.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338583</id>
	<title>Re:Easy to see coming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245095760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's what happens when you continual elect democrats to office.</p><p>Roads go to shit but I'm sure there's no cuts in programs for illegal aliens.</p></div><p>Quite. Tax revenue is insufficient to pay for essential services - let's blame the Democrats who want to tax everyone to death.</p><p>Hang on...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's what happens when you continual elect democrats to office.Roads go to shit but I 'm sure there 's no cuts in programs for illegal aliens.Quite .
Tax revenue is insufficient to pay for essential services - let 's blame the Democrats who want to tax everyone to death.Hang on.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's what happens when you continual elect democrats to office.Roads go to shit but I'm sure there's no cuts in programs for illegal aliens.Quite.
Tax revenue is insufficient to pay for essential services - let's blame the Democrats who want to tax everyone to death.Hang on...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338383</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341257</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245063180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's like that here in Illinois. You'll see the barricades out for at least three months. But the work gets done in the last two weeks. And after the winter, the effective result due to the shoddy workmanship is that it may as well have not been done at all. Would be nice if there were some regulation or oversight on road maintenance to make sure that all the contracted time is used (if the barricades are up, somebody better be working!) and some standard is held to. But as it is now, tax money is wasted and the few people that should be accountable seem none the wiser.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like that here in Illinois .
You 'll see the barricades out for at least three months .
But the work gets done in the last two weeks .
And after the winter , the effective result due to the shoddy workmanship is that it may as well have not been done at all .
Would be nice if there were some regulation or oversight on road maintenance to make sure that all the contracted time is used ( if the barricades are up , somebody better be working !
) and some standard is held to .
But as it is now , tax money is wasted and the few people that should be accountable seem none the wiser .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like that here in Illinois.
You'll see the barricades out for at least three months.
But the work gets done in the last two weeks.
And after the winter, the effective result due to the shoddy workmanship is that it may as well have not been done at all.
Would be nice if there were some regulation or oversight on road maintenance to make sure that all the contracted time is used (if the barricades are up, somebody better be working!
) and some standard is held to.
But as it is now, tax money is wasted and the few people that should be accountable seem none the wiser.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340007</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Colonel Korn</author>
	<datestamp>1245057660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.  The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).  Plus, the freeze-thaw cycle means they'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless, and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel.</p><p>I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.</p></div><p>Michigan is the 11th largest state, and more than you might expected based on its absolute size living here required a ton of driving because the nearest place of interest is often hours away on I-75.  However, I believe these poor counties are planning to remove pavement from rural roads with low traffic, not interstate or state highways.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway , this probably is not a bad idea .
The distances are such that the lower speed limit required is n't going to mean it takes days to get across the state ( like it would in , say , Montana ) .
Plus , the freeze-thaw cycle means they 'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless , and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel.I certainly would n't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though , where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.Michigan is the 11th largest state , and more than you might expected based on its absolute size living here required a ton of driving because the nearest place of interest is often hours away on I-75 .
However , I believe these poor counties are planning to remove pavement from rural roads with low traffic , not interstate or state highways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.
The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).
Plus, the freeze-thaw cycle means they'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless, and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel.I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.Michigan is the 11th largest state, and more than you might expected based on its absolute size living here required a ton of driving because the nearest place of interest is often hours away on I-75.
However, I believe these poor counties are planning to remove pavement from rural roads with low traffic, not interstate or state highways.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339901</id>
	<title>Re:Unintended consequences</title>
	<author>j h woodyatt</author>
	<datestamp>1245057180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, you know, this would never have happened if we had just kept the government out of the business of building and maintaining roads.  If the roads had been owned by a private profit-making enterprise, then when the revenues from the road fare could no longer support their maintenance, they would have just been sold off at auction or something.</p><p>I'll bet those roads wouldn't have to be ground up into gravel if they were owned by some sovereign wealth fund somewhere a few timezones away...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , you know , this would never have happened if we had just kept the government out of the business of building and maintaining roads .
If the roads had been owned by a private profit-making enterprise , then when the revenues from the road fare could no longer support their maintenance , they would have just been sold off at auction or something.I 'll bet those roads would n't have to be ground up into gravel if they were owned by some sovereign wealth fund somewhere a few timezones away.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, you know, this would never have happened if we had just kept the government out of the business of building and maintaining roads.
If the roads had been owned by a private profit-making enterprise, then when the revenues from the road fare could no longer support their maintenance, they would have just been sold off at auction or something.I'll bet those roads wouldn't have to be ground up into gravel if they were owned by some sovereign wealth fund somewhere a few timezones away...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338647</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338321</id>
	<title>Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenance</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1245094740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I grew up in a rural area with a lot of gravel and dirt roads. Gravel roads aren't so bad. They're cheap to build, but they require a lot more maintenance that people think. They get rutting and nasty potholes pretty quickly if they're not consistently maintained (and they deteriorate a LOT faster than asphalt). So I think some of these areas may be jumping the gun on thinking this is a catch-all solution for their cash-strapped transportation departments, counties, and cities. They'll save a lot of money in the short term, but you've got to have a real solid maintenance plan in place or you'll pretty quickly end up with impassable roads. It's not expensive to maintain them (gravel isn't expensive)--but it is labor-intensive.
</p><p>
A well-maintained gravel road isn't so bad physically. Rain doesn't wash them out as bad as dirt roads and they stay passable in about any kind of weather. The main downside is that you just can't drive as fast on them as asphalt. But, then again, you can't drive very fast on poorly maintained asphalt either (because of the potholes). So it's probably a wash on most of these roads (particularly since a colder state like Michigan probably goes trough asphalt roads a lot faster than warmer areas). But, if they don't have a plan to maintain them any better than they maintained them when they were asphalt, this solution is going to be a wash-out (literally) pretty quickly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I grew up in a rural area with a lot of gravel and dirt roads .
Gravel roads are n't so bad .
They 're cheap to build , but they require a lot more maintenance that people think .
They get rutting and nasty potholes pretty quickly if they 're not consistently maintained ( and they deteriorate a LOT faster than asphalt ) .
So I think some of these areas may be jumping the gun on thinking this is a catch-all solution for their cash-strapped transportation departments , counties , and cities .
They 'll save a lot of money in the short term , but you 've got to have a real solid maintenance plan in place or you 'll pretty quickly end up with impassable roads .
It 's not expensive to maintain them ( gravel is n't expensive ) --but it is labor-intensive .
A well-maintained gravel road is n't so bad physically .
Rain does n't wash them out as bad as dirt roads and they stay passable in about any kind of weather .
The main downside is that you just ca n't drive as fast on them as asphalt .
But , then again , you ca n't drive very fast on poorly maintained asphalt either ( because of the potholes ) .
So it 's probably a wash on most of these roads ( particularly since a colder state like Michigan probably goes trough asphalt roads a lot faster than warmer areas ) .
But , if they do n't have a plan to maintain them any better than they maintained them when they were asphalt , this solution is going to be a wash-out ( literally ) pretty quickly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I grew up in a rural area with a lot of gravel and dirt roads.
Gravel roads aren't so bad.
They're cheap to build, but they require a lot more maintenance that people think.
They get rutting and nasty potholes pretty quickly if they're not consistently maintained (and they deteriorate a LOT faster than asphalt).
So I think some of these areas may be jumping the gun on thinking this is a catch-all solution for their cash-strapped transportation departments, counties, and cities.
They'll save a lot of money in the short term, but you've got to have a real solid maintenance plan in place or you'll pretty quickly end up with impassable roads.
It's not expensive to maintain them (gravel isn't expensive)--but it is labor-intensive.
A well-maintained gravel road isn't so bad physically.
Rain doesn't wash them out as bad as dirt roads and they stay passable in about any kind of weather.
The main downside is that you just can't drive as fast on them as asphalt.
But, then again, you can't drive very fast on poorly maintained asphalt either (because of the potholes).
So it's probably a wash on most of these roads (particularly since a colder state like Michigan probably goes trough asphalt roads a lot faster than warmer areas).
But, if they don't have a plan to maintain them any better than they maintained them when they were asphalt, this solution is going to be a wash-out (literally) pretty quickly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342969</id>
	<title>Depends on the traffic.  Probably short-sighted</title>
	<author>smchris</author>
	<datestamp>1245074520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"They found that while bituminous roads have high initial costs, gravel roads cost more for ongoing, routine annual maintenance in later years. The graph of cumulative maintenance costs from one county<br>(Figure 1) verifies that annual maintenance costs per mile for a gravel road increase with traffic<br>volume."</p><p><a href="http://www.lhtac.org/publications/tech\%20news\%20articles/2006/When\%20is\%20it\%20Time\%20to\%20Pave\%20a\%20Gravel\%20Road.pdf" title="lhtac.org">http://www.lhtac.org/publications/tech\%20news\%20articles/2006/When\%20is\%20it\%20Time\%20to\%20Pave\%20a\%20Gravel\%20Road.pdf</a> [lhtac.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" They found that while bituminous roads have high initial costs , gravel roads cost more for ongoing , routine annual maintenance in later years .
The graph of cumulative maintenance costs from one county ( Figure 1 ) verifies that annual maintenance costs per mile for a gravel road increase with trafficvolume .
" http : //www.lhtac.org/publications/tech \ % 20news \ % 20articles/2006/When \ % 20is \ % 20it \ % 20Time \ % 20to \ % 20Pave \ % 20a \ % 20Gravel \ % 20Road.pdf [ lhtac.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"They found that while bituminous roads have high initial costs, gravel roads cost more for ongoing, routine annual maintenance in later years.
The graph of cumulative maintenance costs from one county(Figure 1) verifies that annual maintenance costs per mile for a gravel road increase with trafficvolume.
"http://www.lhtac.org/publications/tech\%20news\%20articles/2006/When\%20is\%20it\%20Time\%20to\%20Pave\%20a\%20Gravel\%20Road.pdf [lhtac.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339417</id>
	<title>Better link</title>
	<author>kevink707</author>
	<datestamp>1245098520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>A more complete article: <a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-mi-revertingroads,0,1719061.story" title="chicagotribune.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-mi-revertingroads,0,1719061.story</a> [chicagotribune.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>A more complete article : http : //www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-mi-revertingroads,0,1719061.story [ chicagotribune.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A more complete article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-mi-revertingroads,0,1719061.story [chicagotribune.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339063</id>
	<title>Re:Why aren't more roads concrete?</title>
	<author>drrck</author>
	<datestamp>1245097260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Concrete is significantly more upfront cost.  Why worry about TCO when you can focus on this years budget.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Concrete is significantly more upfront cost .
Why worry about TCO when you can focus on this years budget .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Concrete is significantly more upfront cost.
Why worry about TCO when you can focus on this years budget.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28382127</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>nrlightfoot</author>
	<datestamp>1245325740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Michigan is more of an average sized state by land area, and it is fairly long from corner to corner, about 650 miles driving distance. Not as long as Montana at about 850, or some of the other states, but it is fairly long. They aren't going to turn the major highways to dirt though, so it's not really a big deal. Plus, I like dirt roads! I think paved roads may be easier to plow too, but I'm not sure. They seem to have more paved roads in northern Michigan where they get more snow.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Michigan is more of an average sized state by land area , and it is fairly long from corner to corner , about 650 miles driving distance .
Not as long as Montana at about 850 , or some of the other states , but it is fairly long .
They are n't going to turn the major highways to dirt though , so it 's not really a big deal .
Plus , I like dirt roads !
I think paved roads may be easier to plow too , but I 'm not sure .
They seem to have more paved roads in northern Michigan where they get more snow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Michigan is more of an average sized state by land area, and it is fairly long from corner to corner, about 650 miles driving distance.
Not as long as Montana at about 850, or some of the other states, but it is fairly long.
They aren't going to turn the major highways to dirt though, so it's not really a big deal.
Plus, I like dirt roads!
I think paved roads may be easier to plow too, but I'm not sure.
They seem to have more paved roads in northern Michigan where they get more snow.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28389661</id>
	<title>Re:Michigan is fucked</title>
	<author>twotreecats7</author>
	<datestamp>1245425160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>

Montcalm County never had good secondary roads.  I have lived there since the 1960s.  The log roads (laid at right angles to the direction) were put in early in the 20th century and were better than the mcadam roads the county insisted on.  Plus they never maintained the dirt roads either and lied to the state regarding the number of miles of road they were paid to maintain in the first place.  County put all their money in building a new county government building and road maintenance barn and not in maintaining what they had.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Montcalm County never had good secondary roads .
I have lived there since the 1960s .
The log roads ( laid at right angles to the direction ) were put in early in the 20th century and were better than the mcadam roads the county insisted on .
Plus they never maintained the dirt roads either and lied to the state regarding the number of miles of road they were paid to maintain in the first place .
County put all their money in building a new county government building and road maintenance barn and not in maintaining what they had .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>

Montcalm County never had good secondary roads.
I have lived there since the 1960s.
The log roads (laid at right angles to the direction) were put in early in the 20th century and were better than the mcadam roads the county insisted on.
Plus they never maintained the dirt roads either and lied to the state regarding the number of miles of road they were paid to maintain in the first place.
County put all their money in building a new county government building and road maintenance barn and not in maintaining what they had.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338311</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339437</id>
	<title>How did they ever manage before...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245098580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So which way was it? Did they invent the 4WD before the 2WD car? Did they not invent the car until AFTER tarmac? Did people not buy cars until the roads were paved (wondering now if the road outside "The Little House On The Prairie" had a metalled road outside...)?</p><p>How did you avoid the chicken-and-egg problem? People not buying cars because the roads weren't tarmac and nobody making tarmac roads because only 4x4's and multi-wheel trucks could safely use the roads...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So which way was it ?
Did they invent the 4WD before the 2WD car ?
Did they not invent the car until AFTER tarmac ?
Did people not buy cars until the roads were paved ( wondering now if the road outside " The Little House On The Prairie " had a metalled road outside... ) ? How did you avoid the chicken-and-egg problem ?
People not buying cars because the roads were n't tarmac and nobody making tarmac roads because only 4x4 's and multi-wheel trucks could safely use the roads.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So which way was it?
Did they invent the 4WD before the 2WD car?
Did they not invent the car until AFTER tarmac?
Did people not buy cars until the roads were paved (wondering now if the road outside "The Little House On The Prairie" had a metalled road outside...)?How did you avoid the chicken-and-egg problem?
People not buying cars because the roads weren't tarmac and nobody making tarmac roads because only 4x4's and multi-wheel trucks could safely use the roads...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338755</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339187</id>
	<title>Living in Michigan</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245097620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live outside Lansing MI and have a few gravel / dirt roads around my family members.  It's not a big deal really.</p><p>For all the people crying about plows, if your living in Michigan then you already know about driving in snow.  They plow gravel roads just like any other road, just with a  little higher gap of the blade to the road.</p><p>The biggest problem I see with the roads is the ice on gravel roads can become a pretty bad problem during the winter.  The asphalt roads melt it much quicker, but the gravel / dirt roads become skating rinks for your commute.</p><p>In my old state of Wisconsin, we had semi-gravel back roads.  Every few years they'd take machines and grind up the roads, add a little tar, and spit it right back down where to that same road.  It was small gravel at first, but after a few months it was smooth enough to roller blade for miles.  The benefit of that was during a really bad winter, you could just recycle the road you already had.</p><p>Michigan's budget has been pretty destroyed over the past few years.  There's a lot of people who are gonna complain about their cars getting dirty, but changes like these are much better than laying people off.</p><p>Seems like most of the people here are just trolling on possible downsides, when they've never actually lived on dirt / gravel roads in heavy snow states like Michigan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live outside Lansing MI and have a few gravel / dirt roads around my family members .
It 's not a big deal really.For all the people crying about plows , if your living in Michigan then you already know about driving in snow .
They plow gravel roads just like any other road , just with a little higher gap of the blade to the road.The biggest problem I see with the roads is the ice on gravel roads can become a pretty bad problem during the winter .
The asphalt roads melt it much quicker , but the gravel / dirt roads become skating rinks for your commute.In my old state of Wisconsin , we had semi-gravel back roads .
Every few years they 'd take machines and grind up the roads , add a little tar , and spit it right back down where to that same road .
It was small gravel at first , but after a few months it was smooth enough to roller blade for miles .
The benefit of that was during a really bad winter , you could just recycle the road you already had.Michigan 's budget has been pretty destroyed over the past few years .
There 's a lot of people who are gon na complain about their cars getting dirty , but changes like these are much better than laying people off.Seems like most of the people here are just trolling on possible downsides , when they 've never actually lived on dirt / gravel roads in heavy snow states like Michigan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live outside Lansing MI and have a few gravel / dirt roads around my family members.
It's not a big deal really.For all the people crying about plows, if your living in Michigan then you already know about driving in snow.
They plow gravel roads just like any other road, just with a  little higher gap of the blade to the road.The biggest problem I see with the roads is the ice on gravel roads can become a pretty bad problem during the winter.
The asphalt roads melt it much quicker, but the gravel / dirt roads become skating rinks for your commute.In my old state of Wisconsin, we had semi-gravel back roads.
Every few years they'd take machines and grind up the roads, add a little tar, and spit it right back down where to that same road.
It was small gravel at first, but after a few months it was smooth enough to roller blade for miles.
The benefit of that was during a really bad winter, you could just recycle the road you already had.Michigan's budget has been pretty destroyed over the past few years.
There's a lot of people who are gonna complain about their cars getting dirty, but changes like these are much better than laying people off.Seems like most of the people here are just trolling on possible downsides, when they've never actually lived on dirt / gravel roads in heavy snow states like Michigan.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338875</id>
	<title>One more example of how bad our infrastructure is</title>
	<author>Itchyeyes</author>
	<datestamp>1245096720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is just one more example of how totally neglected our infrastructure is in this country.  Net infrastructure spending today (that is accounting for depreciation) is about half of what it was during the 70's and 80's.  But it goes beyond that.  Our infrastructure doesn't just need to be maintained, it needs a complete overhaul.  The US highway system has proven to be totally inadequate as a means of transportation for urban areas.  Traffic and congestion gobble up billions of dollars worth of lost productivity, automobiles carrying single people to work spew tons of CO2 into the air, and traffic deaths claims tens of thousands of lives in the US every year.</p><p>And that's just our ground trasportation infrastructure.  Consider also the situation with the Cable/Telco duopoly control of home Internet access, rail lines that have survived only on federal subsidies for years, Wireless carriers who actively interfere with advancements in cellular handset technology, and the pitiful state of air travel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just one more example of how totally neglected our infrastructure is in this country .
Net infrastructure spending today ( that is accounting for depreciation ) is about half of what it was during the 70 's and 80 's .
But it goes beyond that .
Our infrastructure does n't just need to be maintained , it needs a complete overhaul .
The US highway system has proven to be totally inadequate as a means of transportation for urban areas .
Traffic and congestion gobble up billions of dollars worth of lost productivity , automobiles carrying single people to work spew tons of CO2 into the air , and traffic deaths claims tens of thousands of lives in the US every year.And that 's just our ground trasportation infrastructure .
Consider also the situation with the Cable/Telco duopoly control of home Internet access , rail lines that have survived only on federal subsidies for years , Wireless carriers who actively interfere with advancements in cellular handset technology , and the pitiful state of air travel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just one more example of how totally neglected our infrastructure is in this country.
Net infrastructure spending today (that is accounting for depreciation) is about half of what it was during the 70's and 80's.
But it goes beyond that.
Our infrastructure doesn't just need to be maintained, it needs a complete overhaul.
The US highway system has proven to be totally inadequate as a means of transportation for urban areas.
Traffic and congestion gobble up billions of dollars worth of lost productivity, automobiles carrying single people to work spew tons of CO2 into the air, and traffic deaths claims tens of thousands of lives in the US every year.And that's just our ground trasportation infrastructure.
Consider also the situation with the Cable/Telco duopoly control of home Internet access, rail lines that have survived only on federal subsidies for years, Wireless carriers who actively interfere with advancements in cellular handset technology, and the pitiful state of air travel.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338713</id>
	<title>Re:Electricity and whale oil lighting?</title>
	<author>Smivs</author>
	<datestamp>1245096180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> whale oil lighting</p></div><p>
Stupid comment.  There are no whales in Michigan !
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>whale oil lighting Stupid comment .
There are no whales in Michigan !</tokentext>
<sentencetext> whale oil lighting
Stupid comment.
There are no whales in Michigan !

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338371</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338793</id>
	<title>Re:Not the only cost...</title>
	<author>AmiMoJo</author>
	<datestamp>1245096480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also, how come it costs so much to re-surface a road? Why is the county getting ripped off so badly?</p><p>Here in the UK we know all about this sort of thing. Local councils get annual budgets, so they do everything on the cheap instead of planning for the long term and using longer lasting materials. They also seem to get ripped off by all the contractors, who overcharge* them and then take months to resurface a short stretch of road. It's not uncommon to see signs saying "works for 16 weeks" or more, when in other countries they do it overnight or in just a few days.</p><p>* A friend works at a builders merchant, and he says they typically double or sometimes triple their quotes for local government, as does everyone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , how come it costs so much to re-surface a road ?
Why is the county getting ripped off so badly ? Here in the UK we know all about this sort of thing .
Local councils get annual budgets , so they do everything on the cheap instead of planning for the long term and using longer lasting materials .
They also seem to get ripped off by all the contractors , who overcharge * them and then take months to resurface a short stretch of road .
It 's not uncommon to see signs saying " works for 16 weeks " or more , when in other countries they do it overnight or in just a few days .
* A friend works at a builders merchant , and he says they typically double or sometimes triple their quotes for local government , as does everyone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, how come it costs so much to re-surface a road?
Why is the county getting ripped off so badly?Here in the UK we know all about this sort of thing.
Local councils get annual budgets, so they do everything on the cheap instead of planning for the long term and using longer lasting materials.
They also seem to get ripped off by all the contractors, who overcharge* them and then take months to resurface a short stretch of road.
It's not uncommon to see signs saying "works for 16 weeks" or more, when in other countries they do it overnight or in just a few days.
* A friend works at a builders merchant, and he says they typically double or sometimes triple their quotes for local government, as does everyone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28379537</id>
	<title>Michigan roads suck worse than they should</title>
	<author>sjbe</author>
	<datestamp>1245315780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.</p></div><p>The roads in northern Ohio are exposed to basically the same freeze-thaw cycles and Ohio somehow manages to have FAR better road quality.  I used to live in Ohio but work in Michigan and would cross the border every day.  It was VERY easy to tell when I had crossed the border into Michigan without even seeing a sign.  Same is true of Indiana.  Michigan is a beautiful state and it has a lot to recommend it, but it is ironic that the State which is the center of the automobile universe has such horrible roads.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).</p></div><p>Depends on the direction you travel.  Going from Detroit to Copper Harbor (top of the upper peninsula) takes about 11-12 hours.  East to West it's only 3-5 hours across the state in the lower peninsula.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway , this probably is not a bad idea.The roads in northern Ohio are exposed to basically the same freeze-thaw cycles and Ohio somehow manages to have FAR better road quality .
I used to live in Ohio but work in Michigan and would cross the border every day .
It was VERY easy to tell when I had crossed the border into Michigan without even seeing a sign .
Same is true of Indiana .
Michigan is a beautiful state and it has a lot to recommend it , but it is ironic that the State which is the center of the automobile universe has such horrible roads.The distances are such that the lower speed limit required is n't going to mean it takes days to get across the state ( like it would in , say , Montana ) .Depends on the direction you travel .
Going from Detroit to Copper Harbor ( top of the upper peninsula ) takes about 11-12 hours .
East to West it 's only 3-5 hours across the state in the lower peninsula .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.The roads in northern Ohio are exposed to basically the same freeze-thaw cycles and Ohio somehow manages to have FAR better road quality.
I used to live in Ohio but work in Michigan and would cross the border every day.
It was VERY easy to tell when I had crossed the border into Michigan without even seeing a sign.
Same is true of Indiana.
Michigan is a beautiful state and it has a lot to recommend it, but it is ironic that the State which is the center of the automobile universe has such horrible roads.The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).Depends on the direction you travel.
Going from Detroit to Copper Harbor (top of the upper peninsula) takes about 11-12 hours.
East to West it's only 3-5 hours across the state in the lower peninsula.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343963</id>
	<title>Re:Road-ploughing in Victoria, Australia</title>
	<author>pi\_rules</author>
	<datestamp>1245083400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>From my limited experience, ripping up roads to save money is a sign of extreme desperation. Things must be bad indeed in parts of Michigan.</p></div></blockquote><p>Most of Michigan is in the dumper right now.  The Grand Rapids area has unemployment about at the national average, but the state is at something like 13\% overall right now.  A town not more than 30 minutes from me (Muskegon Heights) has an unemployment rate around 24\% last I heard.  They just halved their local police force too.  In a town there they always have a crime problem, that's not good!</p><p>The road thing is one of the few moves we're making that I 100\% agree with though.  A coworker of mine just  had his road go from paved to gravel and it doesn't bug  him at all.  It was gravel a few years ago, went paved for a while, and they they reverted back to gravel the driving conditions improved.</p><p>Michigan's known for bad roads, but I'm not sure people realize just how bad they get.  Drive too fast down a country road and you might knock your ass out from bouncing around so much, and I drive a damned SUV!</p><p>I remember tooling down an interstate in Illinois about, oh, 6-7 years ago with my younger brother.  A sign came up, "DIP IN ROAD!" so I put two hands on the wheel and got ready for it.  It was a tiny bump by Michigan standards, we wouldn't even bother marking it.  We have pot holes so big around here that you'll seriously fark up your car if you hit them doing 35 sometimes.</p><p>Hell, big ran came through this spring and US-31 near me washed out.  30 foot of road, gone, with a drop off multiple feet high.  Just saw a lawsuit today over a section of road in Allegan county that washed out and killed somebody that drove into it.  Yep, we got holes in the road big enough to kill you 'round here.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From my limited experience , ripping up roads to save money is a sign of extreme desperation .
Things must be bad indeed in parts of Michigan.Most of Michigan is in the dumper right now .
The Grand Rapids area has unemployment about at the national average , but the state is at something like 13 \ % overall right now .
A town not more than 30 minutes from me ( Muskegon Heights ) has an unemployment rate around 24 \ % last I heard .
They just halved their local police force too .
In a town there they always have a crime problem , that 's not good ! The road thing is one of the few moves we 're making that I 100 \ % agree with though .
A coworker of mine just had his road go from paved to gravel and it does n't bug him at all .
It was gravel a few years ago , went paved for a while , and they they reverted back to gravel the driving conditions improved.Michigan 's known for bad roads , but I 'm not sure people realize just how bad they get .
Drive too fast down a country road and you might knock your ass out from bouncing around so much , and I drive a damned SUV ! I remember tooling down an interstate in Illinois about , oh , 6-7 years ago with my younger brother .
A sign came up , " DIP IN ROAD !
" so I put two hands on the wheel and got ready for it .
It was a tiny bump by Michigan standards , we would n't even bother marking it .
We have pot holes so big around here that you 'll seriously fark up your car if you hit them doing 35 sometimes.Hell , big ran came through this spring and US-31 near me washed out .
30 foot of road , gone , with a drop off multiple feet high .
Just saw a lawsuit today over a section of road in Allegan county that washed out and killed somebody that drove into it .
Yep , we got holes in the road big enough to kill you 'round here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From my limited experience, ripping up roads to save money is a sign of extreme desperation.
Things must be bad indeed in parts of Michigan.Most of Michigan is in the dumper right now.
The Grand Rapids area has unemployment about at the national average, but the state is at something like 13\% overall right now.
A town not more than 30 minutes from me (Muskegon Heights) has an unemployment rate around 24\% last I heard.
They just halved their local police force too.
In a town there they always have a crime problem, that's not good!The road thing is one of the few moves we're making that I 100\% agree with though.
A coworker of mine just  had his road go from paved to gravel and it doesn't bug  him at all.
It was gravel a few years ago, went paved for a while, and they they reverted back to gravel the driving conditions improved.Michigan's known for bad roads, but I'm not sure people realize just how bad they get.
Drive too fast down a country road and you might knock your ass out from bouncing around so much, and I drive a damned SUV!I remember tooling down an interstate in Illinois about, oh, 6-7 years ago with my younger brother.
A sign came up, "DIP IN ROAD!
" so I put two hands on the wheel and got ready for it.
It was a tiny bump by Michigan standards, we wouldn't even bother marking it.
We have pot holes so big around here that you'll seriously fark up your car if you hit them doing 35 sometimes.Hell, big ran came through this spring and US-31 near me washed out.
30 foot of road, gone, with a drop off multiple feet high.
Just saw a lawsuit today over a section of road in Allegan county that washed out and killed somebody that drove into it.
Yep, we got holes in the road big enough to kill you 'round here.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338671</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340389</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>rpgirl1981</author>
	<datestamp>1245058980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Small state?  We aren't Rhode Island or Delaware.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Small state ?
We are n't Rhode Island or Delaware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Small state?
We aren't Rhode Island or Delaware.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339035</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245097140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I remember seeing a doco about the autobahns in Germany and how little maintenance they needed.  The doco suggested that the US interstate system copied the Autobahn plan but skimped on the construction.  IIRC the US only applied half the depth of foundation that the Germans did, resulting in a system that needed maintenance twice as often.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember seeing a doco about the autobahns in Germany and how little maintenance they needed .
The doco suggested that the US interstate system copied the Autobahn plan but skimped on the construction .
IIRC the US only applied half the depth of foundation that the Germans did , resulting in a system that needed maintenance twice as often .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember seeing a doco about the autobahns in Germany and how little maintenance they needed.
The doco suggested that the US interstate system copied the Autobahn plan but skimped on the construction.
IIRC the US only applied half the depth of foundation that the Germans did, resulting in a system that needed maintenance twice as often.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340755</id>
	<title>relatively small state?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245060480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that's quite funny</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that 's quite funny</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that's quite funny</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245095220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.  The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).  Plus, the freeze-thaw cycle means they'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless, and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel.
<br> <br>
I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway , this probably is not a bad idea .
The distances are such that the lower speed limit required is n't going to mean it takes days to get across the state ( like it would in , say , Montana ) .
Plus , the freeze-thaw cycle means they 'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless , and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel .
I certainly would n't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though , where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.
The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).
Plus, the freeze-thaw cycle means they'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless, and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel.
I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339629</id>
	<title>Re:Unintended consequences</title>
	<author>JesseMcDonald</author>
	<datestamp>1245099360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I certainly hope any such lawsuit would <em>not</em> be successful. There is no such thing as a right to the <em>market value</em> of one's property--which only exists in the minds of others to begin with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I certainly hope any such lawsuit would not be successful .
There is no such thing as a right to the market value of one 's property--which only exists in the minds of others to begin with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I certainly hope any such lawsuit would not be successful.
There is no such thing as a right to the market value of one's property--which only exists in the minds of others to begin with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338647</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340479</id>
	<title>Good!  Next step: lay rails</title>
	<author>CityZen</author>
	<datestamp>1245059400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is progress!  This means that the transition to rails is one step further along!</p><p>Am I being cynical?  Maybe not!?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is progress !
This means that the transition to rails is one step further along ! Am I being cynical ?
Maybe not !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is progress!
This means that the transition to rails is one step further along!Am I being cynical?
Maybe not!
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341973</id>
	<title>Re:Unintended consequences</title>
	<author>Enahs</author>
	<datestamp>1245067380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Property on a gravel road is worth less than property on a paved road."</p><p>I don't know how it works in Michigan, but if you made that statement about Illinois, you'd have it backwards:  Property taxes pay for roads.  Therefore, if all the houses go down in value, there's less revenue, which means the roads get worse.</p><p>I was born in '75, and I've seen the roads in downstate Illinois going from being largely dirt, rock, and oiled roads, to being largely paved, and now a bit backwards.  And quite frankly, although it kills me that my one acre has a higher property tax than my mother-in-law's 40 acres, I can also drive my Altima down the road without hitting one pothole, whereas my car could get lost in a pothole on her road.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Property on a gravel road is worth less than property on a paved road .
" I do n't know how it works in Michigan , but if you made that statement about Illinois , you 'd have it backwards : Property taxes pay for roads .
Therefore , if all the houses go down in value , there 's less revenue , which means the roads get worse.I was born in '75 , and I 've seen the roads in downstate Illinois going from being largely dirt , rock , and oiled roads , to being largely paved , and now a bit backwards .
And quite frankly , although it kills me that my one acre has a higher property tax than my mother-in-law 's 40 acres , I can also drive my Altima down the road without hitting one pothole , whereas my car could get lost in a pothole on her road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Property on a gravel road is worth less than property on a paved road.
"I don't know how it works in Michigan, but if you made that statement about Illinois, you'd have it backwards:  Property taxes pay for roads.
Therefore, if all the houses go down in value, there's less revenue, which means the roads get worse.I was born in '75, and I've seen the roads in downstate Illinois going from being largely dirt, rock, and oiled roads, to being largely paved, and now a bit backwards.
And quite frankly, although it kills me that my one acre has a higher property tax than my mother-in-law's 40 acres, I can also drive my Altima down the road without hitting one pothole, whereas my car could get lost in a pothole on her road.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338647</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339059</id>
	<title>Penny wise and pound foolish.</title>
	<author>MarkvW</author>
	<datestamp>1245097260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A road engineer told me that paved roads are cheaper than gravel roads, once you factor in the maintenance costs.</p><p>Those counties may be penny wise and pound foolish.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A road engineer told me that paved roads are cheaper than gravel roads , once you factor in the maintenance costs.Those counties may be penny wise and pound foolish .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A road engineer told me that paved roads are cheaper than gravel roads, once you factor in the maintenance costs.Those counties may be penny wise and pound foolish.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28344479</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel Roads are great - just ask West Virginia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245089100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously??? West Virginia's problems all stems from a lack of asphalt?  It's amazing more businesses aren't flocking there, what with all the obviously well educated residents that they could employ.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously ? ? ?
West Virginia 's problems all stems from a lack of asphalt ?
It 's amazing more businesses are n't flocking there , what with all the obviously well educated residents that they could employ .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously???
West Virginia's problems all stems from a lack of asphalt?
It's amazing more businesses aren't flocking there, what with all the obviously well educated residents that they could employ.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338499</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28390027</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel Roads are great - just ask West Virginia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245426600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Installation and maintenance of modern infrastructure requires.....TAXES.  It's the price all must pay for living in a civilized society.  Would someone please explain that to Grover Norquist and the rest of the Republican anti-tax zealots?  Nobody likes paying taxes, and everyone wants lower taxes, but the necessities of a modern society must be paid for. And the current trend for corporations to demand all sorts of tax abatements in exchange for locating a facility in an area is crazy.  Tell them that that is extortion, and a crime in this (any) state.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Installation and maintenance of modern infrastructure requires.....TAXES .
It 's the price all must pay for living in a civilized society .
Would someone please explain that to Grover Norquist and the rest of the Republican anti-tax zealots ?
Nobody likes paying taxes , and everyone wants lower taxes , but the necessities of a modern society must be paid for .
And the current trend for corporations to demand all sorts of tax abatements in exchange for locating a facility in an area is crazy .
Tell them that that is extortion , and a crime in this ( any ) state .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Installation and maintenance of modern infrastructure requires.....TAXES.
It's the price all must pay for living in a civilized society.
Would someone please explain that to Grover Norquist and the rest of the Republican anti-tax zealots?
Nobody likes paying taxes, and everyone wants lower taxes, but the necessities of a modern society must be paid for.
And the current trend for corporations to demand all sorts of tax abatements in exchange for locating a facility in an area is crazy.
Tell them that that is extortion, and a crime in this (any) state.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338499</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339907</id>
	<title>Re:Extremely Sensible</title>
	<author>Locke2005</author>
	<datestamp>1245057240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Amen on the dust! Most people seem to be forgetting the other hidden cost of gravel roads: repairing windshields a lot more often. I think this move was designed to revive the failing auto glass industry in the state!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Amen on the dust !
Most people seem to be forgetting the other hidden cost of gravel roads : repairing windshields a lot more often .
I think this move was designed to revive the failing auto glass industry in the state !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Amen on the dust!
Most people seem to be forgetting the other hidden cost of gravel roads: repairing windshields a lot more often.
I think this move was designed to revive the failing auto glass industry in the state!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339729</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel Roads are great - just ask West Virginia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245056580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a street motorcycle rider, so I like nice winding paved mountain roads.  I grew up in WV and moved to Colorado 5 years ago because I couldn't find a software development job in WV (yes, WV \_is\_ poor).  My experience, though, is that WV has some of the most paved rural areas in the country.  Drive anywhere in the Colorado Rockies and if you're not in a city or on I-70, US24, US285 or US50, you're driving on gravel or dirt (and Colorado has more money than WV).  Driving in the WV mountains is a joy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a street motorcycle rider , so I like nice winding paved mountain roads .
I grew up in WV and moved to Colorado 5 years ago because I could n't find a software development job in WV ( yes , WV \ _is \ _ poor ) .
My experience , though , is that WV has some of the most paved rural areas in the country .
Drive anywhere in the Colorado Rockies and if you 're not in a city or on I-70 , US24 , US285 or US50 , you 're driving on gravel or dirt ( and Colorado has more money than WV ) .
Driving in the WV mountains is a joy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a street motorcycle rider, so I like nice winding paved mountain roads.
I grew up in WV and moved to Colorado 5 years ago because I couldn't find a software development job in WV (yes, WV \_is\_ poor).
My experience, though, is that WV has some of the most paved rural areas in the country.
Drive anywhere in the Colorado Rockies and if you're not in a city or on I-70, US24, US285 or US50, you're driving on gravel or dirt (and Colorado has more money than WV).
Driving in the WV mountains is a joy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338499</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338383</id>
	<title>Easy to see coming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245094980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's what happens when you continual elect democrats to office.</p><p>Roads go to shit but I'm sure there's no cuts in programs for illegal aliens.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's what happens when you continual elect democrats to office.Roads go to shit but I 'm sure there 's no cuts in programs for illegal aliens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's what happens when you continual elect democrats to office.Roads go to shit but I'm sure there's no cuts in programs for illegal aliens.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339397</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245098400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>According to PBS, problems are <b>always</b> the result of corruption in industry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>According to PBS , problems are always the result of corruption in industry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to PBS, problems are always the result of corruption in industry.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338407</id>
	<title>Extremely Sensible</title>
	<author>popo</author>
	<datestamp>1245095100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The reality is that this is just the beginning of cuts that need to be made in Michigan, and elsewhere.</p><p>Gravel roads are cheap to build, cheap to maintain, and represent an extremely sensible kind of cut that does not have a major quality of life impact.   Arguably they also have a rustic beauty, and look much nicer than a pot-holed, badly deteriorated paved road.</p><p>The poster makes a silly connection between gravel roads and whale oil, but fails to understand that whale oil and *paved* roads have more in common:  Both are unsustainable at this time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reality is that this is just the beginning of cuts that need to be made in Michigan , and elsewhere.Gravel roads are cheap to build , cheap to maintain , and represent an extremely sensible kind of cut that does not have a major quality of life impact .
Arguably they also have a rustic beauty , and look much nicer than a pot-holed , badly deteriorated paved road.The poster makes a silly connection between gravel roads and whale oil , but fails to understand that whale oil and * paved * roads have more in common : Both are unsustainable at this time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reality is that this is just the beginning of cuts that need to be made in Michigan, and elsewhere.Gravel roads are cheap to build, cheap to maintain, and represent an extremely sensible kind of cut that does not have a major quality of life impact.
Arguably they also have a rustic beauty, and look much nicer than a pot-holed, badly deteriorated paved road.The poster makes a silly connection between gravel roads and whale oil, but fails to understand that whale oil and *paved* roads have more in common:  Both are unsustainable at this time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338679</id>
	<title>Re:Solving the funding</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245096060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We probably wouldn't have paved roads that didn't need it in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We probably would n't have paved roads that did n't need it in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We probably wouldn't have paved roads that didn't need it in the first place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338499</id>
	<title>Gravel Roads are great - just ask West Virginia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245095460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Turning your roads from paved to gravel is like giving up on economic recovery or development. Gravel roads don't support commerce or industry very well.  They are a good reason not to locate somewhere.

I lived in West Virginia for 2 years before returning to urban life 2 1/2 years ago.  Bad roads and gravel roads abound because the state is poor.  But the state will remain poor in part because of bad roads and gravel roads. If a state cannot provide a modern infrastructure, it will not be able to compete.

Now its not always a bad thing to de-settle an area and let it revert to a more primitive state, but don't count on being able to undo the damage if you later change your mind.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Turning your roads from paved to gravel is like giving up on economic recovery or development .
Gravel roads do n't support commerce or industry very well .
They are a good reason not to locate somewhere .
I lived in West Virginia for 2 years before returning to urban life 2 1/2 years ago .
Bad roads and gravel roads abound because the state is poor .
But the state will remain poor in part because of bad roads and gravel roads .
If a state can not provide a modern infrastructure , it will not be able to compete .
Now its not always a bad thing to de-settle an area and let it revert to a more primitive state , but do n't count on being able to undo the damage if you later change your mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Turning your roads from paved to gravel is like giving up on economic recovery or development.
Gravel roads don't support commerce or industry very well.
They are a good reason not to locate somewhere.
I lived in West Virginia for 2 years before returning to urban life 2 1/2 years ago.
Bad roads and gravel roads abound because the state is poor.
But the state will remain poor in part because of bad roads and gravel roads.
If a state cannot provide a modern infrastructure, it will not be able to compete.
Now its not always a bad thing to de-settle an area and let it revert to a more primitive state, but don't count on being able to undo the damage if you later change your mind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343165</id>
	<title>Re:Extremely Sensible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245076260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Gravel roads have an increased stopping distance over asphalt or concrete ones.  They also contribute much more to vehicle wear and tear - not only as far as nicks and dings, but also tires and shocks.  (though the later part is just as true of badly potholed roads)</p></div><p>This is what we call "good for the economy."  Increased sales of tires and shocks, increased work for mechanics and aftermarket manufacturers, and increased car sales over the long run.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gravel roads have an increased stopping distance over asphalt or concrete ones .
They also contribute much more to vehicle wear and tear - not only as far as nicks and dings , but also tires and shocks .
( though the later part is just as true of badly potholed roads ) This is what we call " good for the economy .
" Increased sales of tires and shocks , increased work for mechanics and aftermarket manufacturers , and increased car sales over the long run .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gravel roads have an increased stopping distance over asphalt or concrete ones.
They also contribute much more to vehicle wear and tear - not only as far as nicks and dings, but also tires and shocks.
(though the later part is just as true of badly potholed roads)This is what we call "good for the economy.
"  Increased sales of tires and shocks, increased work for mechanics and aftermarket manufacturers, and increased car sales over the long run.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338755</id>
	<title>Fine for four wheels</title>
	<author>DarkNinja75</author>
	<datestamp>1245096360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Gravel roads are fine if you have 4 wheels, but if you're on two wheels (specifically a sport bike or sport tourer), they can be extremely hazardous.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gravel roads are fine if you have 4 wheels , but if you 're on two wheels ( specifically a sport bike or sport tourer ) , they can be extremely hazardous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gravel roads are fine if you have 4 wheels, but if you're on two wheels (specifically a sport bike or sport tourer), they can be extremely hazardous.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339803</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1245056820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I wonder just to what extend conservative politics,</p> </div><p>Yeah right, as if conservative had anything to do with it.  In theory, it sounds good, but in practice the constituents of the democrats get their share too when the time comes.  Think of the unions and the card check.  No, businesses and organizations are smart enough to pay politicians on both sides of the aisle.<br> <br>
BUT - it is getting better. Think of Warren Harding, the Teapot Dome scandal, Tammany Hall, or any kind of politics in the early 1900s.  Ugly compared to what we have today.<br> <br>
Compare it to WWII when you could get a military contract by buying the right guys hookers.  Even Chicago of today is way better than Chicago in the 70s.<br> <br>
Is there corruption still?  Yes, unfortunately, but it is getting better.  We need to keep pushing for more transparency and openness.  When people can see what their government is doing, then it is hard for them to be corrupt.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder just to what extend conservative politics , Yeah right , as if conservative had anything to do with it .
In theory , it sounds good , but in practice the constituents of the democrats get their share too when the time comes .
Think of the unions and the card check .
No , businesses and organizations are smart enough to pay politicians on both sides of the aisle .
BUT - it is getting better .
Think of Warren Harding , the Teapot Dome scandal , Tammany Hall , or any kind of politics in the early 1900s .
Ugly compared to what we have today .
Compare it to WWII when you could get a military contract by buying the right guys hookers .
Even Chicago of today is way better than Chicago in the 70s .
Is there corruption still ?
Yes , unfortunately , but it is getting better .
We need to keep pushing for more transparency and openness .
When people can see what their government is doing , then it is hard for them to be corrupt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder just to what extend conservative politics, Yeah right, as if conservative had anything to do with it.
In theory, it sounds good, but in practice the constituents of the democrats get their share too when the time comes.
Think of the unions and the card check.
No, businesses and organizations are smart enough to pay politicians on both sides of the aisle.
BUT - it is getting better.
Think of Warren Harding, the Teapot Dome scandal, Tammany Hall, or any kind of politics in the early 1900s.
Ugly compared to what we have today.
Compare it to WWII when you could get a military contract by buying the right guys hookers.
Even Chicago of today is way better than Chicago in the 70s.
Is there corruption still?
Yes, unfortunately, but it is getting better.
We need to keep pushing for more transparency and openness.
When people can see what their government is doing, then it is hard for them to be corrupt.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338769</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343587</id>
	<title>Re:Penny wise and pound foolish.</title>
	<author>lahvak</author>
	<datestamp>1245079920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those counties already have number of gravel roads, and as far as I can tell, they manage to keep them them in much better shape than their rural paved roads.  I think they know what they are doing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those counties already have number of gravel roads , and as far as I can tell , they manage to keep them them in much better shape than their rural paved roads .
I think they know what they are doing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those counties already have number of gravel roads, and as far as I can tell, they manage to keep them them in much better shape than their rural paved roads.
I think they know what they are doing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339059</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338779</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>oodaloop</author>
	<datestamp>1245096420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Apparently we have about 5.7 million miles of roads in the US (at least from some sites that came up on Google).  That turns out to $570 Billion US.  I have a hard time believing that's accurate to begin with.  Maybe.  Just seems a little high to me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently we have about 5.7 million miles of roads in the US ( at least from some sites that came up on Google ) .
That turns out to $ 570 Billion US .
I have a hard time believing that 's accurate to begin with .
Maybe. Just seems a little high to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently we have about 5.7 million miles of roads in the US (at least from some sites that came up on Google).
That turns out to $570 Billion US.
I have a hard time believing that's accurate to begin with.
Maybe.  Just seems a little high to me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28344829</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245093060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.  The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).  Plus, the freeze-thaw cycle means they'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless, and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel.</p><p>I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.</p></div><p>Relatively small state?  It takes about 10 hours to get from Detroit to the far end of the Upper Peninsula.  I've made it to Atlanta, GA in just over 10 hours.</p><p>Now Ohio, there's a small state...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway , this probably is not a bad idea .
The distances are such that the lower speed limit required is n't going to mean it takes days to get across the state ( like it would in , say , Montana ) .
Plus , the freeze-thaw cycle means they 'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless , and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel.I certainly would n't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though , where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.Relatively small state ?
It takes about 10 hours to get from Detroit to the far end of the Upper Peninsula .
I 've made it to Atlanta , GA in just over 10 hours.Now Ohio , there 's a small state.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.
The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).
Plus, the freeze-thaw cycle means they'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless, and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel.I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.Relatively small state?
It takes about 10 hours to get from Detroit to the far end of the Upper Peninsula.
I've made it to Atlanta, GA in just over 10 hours.Now Ohio, there's a small state...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342021</id>
	<title>[citation needed]</title>
	<author>Enahs</author>
	<datestamp>1245067740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cite a modern example where millions starve as a result of government-provided food.   How can we be certain it's not an example of millions starving, therefore the government steps in?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cite a modern example where millions starve as a result of government-provided food .
How can we be certain it 's not an example of millions starving , therefore the government steps in ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cite a modern example where millions starve as a result of government-provided food.
How can we be certain it's not an example of millions starving, therefore the government steps in?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339019</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340559</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>MaWeiTao</author>
	<datestamp>1245059700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't be surprised. In my area one of the major highways was repaved less than 10 years ago and over long stretches there is already rutting occurring because of big trucks compressing the asphalt. And that's not to mention that the quality of paving and maintenance is garbage to begin with.</p><p>I love in the winter when snow plows come down the street, sparks flying as the flow scrapes the pavement and the entire house rumbling. The snow starts disappearing a few days later and large chunks are torn out of the pavement. Then every single year, we have to put up with damaged streets for most of the year, until late fall when crews come along and start patching streets and highways, poorly, just in time for them to be torn up again in the winter.</p><p>As bad as it can get in my area, try driving into the New York area and it's an absolute joke. Maintenance seems to non-existent and when they do new work they might as well not have bothered because they've done such an awful job. I could ride blind-folded in a car and know when I've entered New York state.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't be surprised .
In my area one of the major highways was repaved less than 10 years ago and over long stretches there is already rutting occurring because of big trucks compressing the asphalt .
And that 's not to mention that the quality of paving and maintenance is garbage to begin with.I love in the winter when snow plows come down the street , sparks flying as the flow scrapes the pavement and the entire house rumbling .
The snow starts disappearing a few days later and large chunks are torn out of the pavement .
Then every single year , we have to put up with damaged streets for most of the year , until late fall when crews come along and start patching streets and highways , poorly , just in time for them to be torn up again in the winter.As bad as it can get in my area , try driving into the New York area and it 's an absolute joke .
Maintenance seems to non-existent and when they do new work they might as well not have bothered because they 've done such an awful job .
I could ride blind-folded in a car and know when I 've entered New York state .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't be surprised.
In my area one of the major highways was repaved less than 10 years ago and over long stretches there is already rutting occurring because of big trucks compressing the asphalt.
And that's not to mention that the quality of paving and maintenance is garbage to begin with.I love in the winter when snow plows come down the street, sparks flying as the flow scrapes the pavement and the entire house rumbling.
The snow starts disappearing a few days later and large chunks are torn out of the pavement.
Then every single year, we have to put up with damaged streets for most of the year, until late fall when crews come along and start patching streets and highways, poorly, just in time for them to be torn up again in the winter.As bad as it can get in my area, try driving into the New York area and it's an absolute joke.
Maintenance seems to non-existent and when they do new work they might as well not have bothered because they've done such an awful job.
I could ride blind-folded in a car and know when I've entered New York state.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341723</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>cartman94501</author>
	<datestamp>1245065880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also, few people are going to cross the state on gravel roads. Most will probably use the interstates, which are maintained at least partially with federal money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , few people are going to cross the state on gravel roads .
Most will probably use the interstates , which are maintained at least partially with federal money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, few people are going to cross the state on gravel roads.
Most will probably use the interstates, which are maintained at least partially with federal money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340255</id>
	<title>Re:Flying Car Argument</title>
	<author>cpghost</author>
	<datestamp>1245058380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux\_capacitor#Flux\_Capacitor" title="wikipedia.org">flux capacitor</a> [wikipedia.org] has been patented by a patent troll who's been constantly refusing to sell it to the starving car industry. We'll need to wait 20 years until that patent expires (make that 50, 70, 95, 120+ years if lobbying is successful to extend the length of patents just like copyrights). But then, way ahead in the future, we could travel back in time and use those flying cars right away.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But the flux capacitor [ wikipedia.org ] has been patented by a patent troll who 's been constantly refusing to sell it to the starving car industry .
We 'll need to wait 20 years until that patent expires ( make that 50 , 70 , 95 , 120 + years if lobbying is successful to extend the length of patents just like copyrights ) .
But then , way ahead in the future , we could travel back in time and use those flying cars right away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But the flux capacitor [wikipedia.org] has been patented by a patent troll who's been constantly refusing to sell it to the starving car industry.
We'll need to wait 20 years until that patent expires (make that 50, 70, 95, 120+ years if lobbying is successful to extend the length of patents just like copyrights).
But then, way ahead in the future, we could travel back in time and use those flying cars right away.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338513</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340621</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Ponga</author>
	<datestamp>1245059940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west..</p></div><p>Nonsense! There are plenty of dirt (not gravel) roads here in Arizona, straight and amazingly smooth! I can get up to 80+ MPH on these roads, and why not, usually these roads don't come accompanied with speed limits nor highway patrol. </p><p>Granted, the weather is fairly predictable (sunny) and traffic is not very heavy on these roads... still, they are a pleasure to drive and I wish there were more of them!</p><p>--ponga</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I certainly would n't want to try this tactic anywhere out west..Nonsense !
There are plenty of dirt ( not gravel ) roads here in Arizona , straight and amazingly smooth !
I can get up to 80 + MPH on these roads , and why not , usually these roads do n't come accompanied with speed limits nor highway patrol .
Granted , the weather is fairly predictable ( sunny ) and traffic is not very heavy on these roads... still , they are a pleasure to drive and I wish there were more of them ! --ponga</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west..Nonsense!
There are plenty of dirt (not gravel) roads here in Arizona, straight and amazingly smooth!
I can get up to 80+ MPH on these roads, and why not, usually these roads don't come accompanied with speed limits nor highway patrol.
Granted, the weather is fairly predictable (sunny) and traffic is not very heavy on these roads... still, they are a pleasure to drive and I wish there were more of them!--ponga
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28348167</id>
	<title>Where does the REAL problem lie?</title>
	<author>Dretep</author>
	<datestamp>1245170160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
Is it shoddy workmanship and/or overpaid unionized road workers?  My guess is both.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it shoddy workmanship and/or overpaid unionized road workers ?
My guess is both .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Is it shoddy workmanship and/or overpaid unionized road workers?
My guess is both.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338705</id>
	<title>Michitucky?</title>
	<author>Picass0</author>
	<datestamp>1245096120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gravel Roads might be cheaper from an infrastructure POV, but they have serious downsides.</p><p>* You can't plow them for snow removal. Michigan gets some big snow, so this means isolating people until a thaw.<br>* They beat the crap out of cars.<br>* They get dusty during dry spells. Visibility is reduced when following another driver, leading to safety concerns.<br>* Traction is reduced. Stopping times during an emergency are much different because a moving car will slide on a layer of loose rock without direct traction. You can easily slide into a disabled vehicle(s) or off the road.<br>* Even the Amish will laugh at Michigan if they do this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gravel Roads might be cheaper from an infrastructure POV , but they have serious downsides .
* You ca n't plow them for snow removal .
Michigan gets some big snow , so this means isolating people until a thaw .
* They beat the crap out of cars .
* They get dusty during dry spells .
Visibility is reduced when following another driver , leading to safety concerns .
* Traction is reduced .
Stopping times during an emergency are much different because a moving car will slide on a layer of loose rock without direct traction .
You can easily slide into a disabled vehicle ( s ) or off the road .
* Even the Amish will laugh at Michigan if they do this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gravel Roads might be cheaper from an infrastructure POV, but they have serious downsides.
* You can't plow them for snow removal.
Michigan gets some big snow, so this means isolating people until a thaw.
* They beat the crap out of cars.
* They get dusty during dry spells.
Visibility is reduced when following another driver, leading to safety concerns.
* Traction is reduced.
Stopping times during an emergency are much different because a moving car will slide on a layer of loose rock without direct traction.
You can easily slide into a disabled vehicle(s) or off the road.
* Even the Amish will laugh at Michigan if they do this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342237</id>
	<title>Re:We have an even cheaper way to make gravel</title>
	<author>The Archon V2.0</author>
	<datestamp>1245069060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Just drive on the roads until they crumble.</p></div><p>That's what they do, but unfortunately the roads don't have the decency to crumble uniformly, with some parts turning to potholes and others staying sound.</p><p>

The obvious conclusion, gentlemen, is that we need shoddier workmanship so it all goes to hell simultaneously. DOWN WITH QUALITY!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just drive on the roads until they crumble.That 's what they do , but unfortunately the roads do n't have the decency to crumble uniformly , with some parts turning to potholes and others staying sound .
The obvious conclusion , gentlemen , is that we need shoddier workmanship so it all goes to hell simultaneously .
DOWN WITH QUALITY !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just drive on the roads until they crumble.That's what they do, but unfortunately the roads don't have the decency to crumble uniformly, with some parts turning to potholes and others staying sound.
The obvious conclusion, gentlemen, is that we need shoddier workmanship so it all goes to hell simultaneously.
DOWN WITH QUALITY!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339893</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338853</id>
	<title>Re:Winter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245096660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I lived on county gravel roads before moving an urban area.  There were some ups and downs with them.</p><p>- Rougher after the road graters came through.  It takes a few weeks for the larger stones to be driven out of the way, so you do drive slower during this time (50 mph or slower depending on how familiar you are with the area).<br>- After rains and snow thaws, claw roads are a nightmare to go through.  You slide everywhere!  Decent tires are a must.<br>- The need to be careful on hills.  Some folks like to drive in the middle of the road since there isn't a dividing line.  Coming up on hills, you need to make a conscious effort to move to the side and yet still avoid sliding off the gravel shoulder.<br>- Rocks and dust.  Don't drive too close! You will likely get rock in the windshield, and with the dust kicked up you can't see what is passing the car in front of you.  Also don't count on having that car clean look all the time, so get used to wearing mud on the side of the car as a badge of honor instead!</p><p>On the plus side!<br>+ Cheaper to maintain.  Sure, the county probably needs to come through more often to keep the road bed up, but it takes less than a day to do 5 miles of gravel road with a single road grater.  To do 5 miles of paved road, the time, labor, materials and equipment are far more.<br>+ Ice? No problem!  When an ice storm came up, I never took the highway.  I -might- be able to top 20 mph on the highway.  On the gravel road, I could still cruise comfortably at 50 mph+ safely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I lived on county gravel roads before moving an urban area .
There were some ups and downs with them.- Rougher after the road graters came through .
It takes a few weeks for the larger stones to be driven out of the way , so you do drive slower during this time ( 50 mph or slower depending on how familiar you are with the area ) .- After rains and snow thaws , claw roads are a nightmare to go through .
You slide everywhere !
Decent tires are a must.- The need to be careful on hills .
Some folks like to drive in the middle of the road since there is n't a dividing line .
Coming up on hills , you need to make a conscious effort to move to the side and yet still avoid sliding off the gravel shoulder.- Rocks and dust .
Do n't drive too close !
You will likely get rock in the windshield , and with the dust kicked up you ca n't see what is passing the car in front of you .
Also do n't count on having that car clean look all the time , so get used to wearing mud on the side of the car as a badge of honor instead ! On the plus side ! + Cheaper to maintain .
Sure , the county probably needs to come through more often to keep the road bed up , but it takes less than a day to do 5 miles of gravel road with a single road grater .
To do 5 miles of paved road , the time , labor , materials and equipment are far more. + Ice ?
No problem !
When an ice storm came up , I never took the highway .
I -might- be able to top 20 mph on the highway .
On the gravel road , I could still cruise comfortably at 50 mph + safely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I lived on county gravel roads before moving an urban area.
There were some ups and downs with them.- Rougher after the road graters came through.
It takes a few weeks for the larger stones to be driven out of the way, so you do drive slower during this time (50 mph or slower depending on how familiar you are with the area).- After rains and snow thaws, claw roads are a nightmare to go through.
You slide everywhere!
Decent tires are a must.- The need to be careful on hills.
Some folks like to drive in the middle of the road since there isn't a dividing line.
Coming up on hills, you need to make a conscious effort to move to the side and yet still avoid sliding off the gravel shoulder.- Rocks and dust.
Don't drive too close!
You will likely get rock in the windshield, and with the dust kicked up you can't see what is passing the car in front of you.
Also don't count on having that car clean look all the time, so get used to wearing mud on the side of the car as a badge of honor instead!On the plus side!+ Cheaper to maintain.
Sure, the county probably needs to come through more often to keep the road bed up, but it takes less than a day to do 5 miles of gravel road with a single road grater.
To do 5 miles of paved road, the time, labor, materials and equipment are far more.+ Ice?
No problem!
When an ice storm came up, I never took the highway.
I -might- be able to top 20 mph on the highway.
On the gravel road, I could still cruise comfortably at 50 mph+ safely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338473</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339493</id>
	<title>The Gravel Road of things to Come</title>
	<author>hackus</author>
	<datestamp>1245098820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would get use to it.</p><p>Most of the USA is already vastly third world like, with bridges collapsing all over the place killing people and pricey roads that last like 8 years before being resurfaced.</p><p>The USA is going to look like Mexico in about 10 years after the payment for that "heist" the democratic and republican parties orchestrated with the corrupt financial institutions just this past year.</p><p>You are going to be lucky to have running water in your house in another 10 years let alone decent roads to drive on.</p><p>-Hack</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would get use to it.Most of the USA is already vastly third world like , with bridges collapsing all over the place killing people and pricey roads that last like 8 years before being resurfaced.The USA is going to look like Mexico in about 10 years after the payment for that " heist " the democratic and republican parties orchestrated with the corrupt financial institutions just this past year.You are going to be lucky to have running water in your house in another 10 years let alone decent roads to drive on.-Hack</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would get use to it.Most of the USA is already vastly third world like, with bridges collapsing all over the place killing people and pricey roads that last like 8 years before being resurfaced.The USA is going to look like Mexico in about 10 years after the payment for that "heist" the democratic and republican parties orchestrated with the corrupt financial institutions just this past year.You are going to be lucky to have running water in your house in another 10 years let alone decent roads to drive on.-Hack</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339921</id>
	<title>I live in montcalm county</title>
	<author>hordchurtle</author>
	<datestamp>1245057300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I live in one of the largest cities in Montcalm county mi. So I get to see all of this up close and personal. Honestly it is a good thing. Since electrolux left many moons ago the area has been in a fall. The loss of jobs led to a loss of people. That led to a loss of tax revenues that were used to repair the roads properly. Many of the roads that will be converted are mostly patched with tar and are in serious need of repaving if they were to get it.

Now somebody above claimed that this was a step back to an Amish lifestyle. Well some of there roads have Amish farms on them anyway. There were paved to provide access for people going to the Amish bakeries and farms for goods. Which is happening less and less these days.

Plowing is also a non argument. The roads have low priority plowing anyway which mean that they get plowed after all main arteries and city paved roads are cleared.

Last week there was a news article about people in our state government wanted to increase the gas tax in order to cover the costs of repairing the roads. Well lets just say here in Mi at least many of the residence are sensitive to gas prices. This include calling in sick and taking vacation because they don't have enough money to pay for gas. This hurts productivity. It's the same reason that at this time in our society toll roads will not solve any problems. People can not spend any more.

So if turning some roads to gravel allow the main arteries to be fixed and plowed I am personally all for it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in one of the largest cities in Montcalm county mi .
So I get to see all of this up close and personal .
Honestly it is a good thing .
Since electrolux left many moons ago the area has been in a fall .
The loss of jobs led to a loss of people .
That led to a loss of tax revenues that were used to repair the roads properly .
Many of the roads that will be converted are mostly patched with tar and are in serious need of repaving if they were to get it .
Now somebody above claimed that this was a step back to an Amish lifestyle .
Well some of there roads have Amish farms on them anyway .
There were paved to provide access for people going to the Amish bakeries and farms for goods .
Which is happening less and less these days .
Plowing is also a non argument .
The roads have low priority plowing anyway which mean that they get plowed after all main arteries and city paved roads are cleared .
Last week there was a news article about people in our state government wanted to increase the gas tax in order to cover the costs of repairing the roads .
Well lets just say here in Mi at least many of the residence are sensitive to gas prices .
This include calling in sick and taking vacation because they do n't have enough money to pay for gas .
This hurts productivity .
It 's the same reason that at this time in our society toll roads will not solve any problems .
People can not spend any more .
So if turning some roads to gravel allow the main arteries to be fixed and plowed I am personally all for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in one of the largest cities in Montcalm county mi.
So I get to see all of this up close and personal.
Honestly it is a good thing.
Since electrolux left many moons ago the area has been in a fall.
The loss of jobs led to a loss of people.
That led to a loss of tax revenues that were used to repair the roads properly.
Many of the roads that will be converted are mostly patched with tar and are in serious need of repaving if they were to get it.
Now somebody above claimed that this was a step back to an Amish lifestyle.
Well some of there roads have Amish farms on them anyway.
There were paved to provide access for people going to the Amish bakeries and farms for goods.
Which is happening less and less these days.
Plowing is also a non argument.
The roads have low priority plowing anyway which mean that they get plowed after all main arteries and city paved roads are cleared.
Last week there was a news article about people in our state government wanted to increase the gas tax in order to cover the costs of repairing the roads.
Well lets just say here in Mi at least many of the residence are sensitive to gas prices.
This include calling in sick and taking vacation because they don't have enough money to pay for gas.
This hurts productivity.
It's the same reason that at this time in our society toll roads will not solve any problems.
People can not spend any more.
So if turning some roads to gravel allow the main arteries to be fixed and plowed I am personally all for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28349739</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1245175680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is very little corruption in US politics compared to every other political group in the world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is very little corruption in US politics compared to every other political group in the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is very little corruption in US politics compared to every other political group in the world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339735</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343021</id>
	<title>Re:Michigan is fucked</title>
	<author>Profane MuthaFucka</author>
	<datestamp>1245074820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well then I must have grown up in the Michigan where Spock wears a beard. Freezing winters, depressed economy, an more rednecks than exist in most Southern states. Couldn't leave fast enough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well then I must have grown up in the Michigan where Spock wears a beard .
Freezing winters , depressed economy , an more rednecks than exist in most Southern states .
Could n't leave fast enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well then I must have grown up in the Michigan where Spock wears a beard.
Freezing winters, depressed economy, an more rednecks than exist in most Southern states.
Couldn't leave fast enough.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338311</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339821</id>
	<title>Roads?</title>
	<author>drunken\_boxer777</author>
	<datestamp>1245056820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Roads? Where we're going, <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/story/08/11/14/2330206/Pentagon-Clears-Flying-Car-Project-For-Takeoff" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">we</a> [slashdot.org] <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/01/12/0715248/Flying-Car-Ready-To-Take-Off" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">don't</a> [slashdot.org] <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/02/25/1929244/Flying-Car-Flies-From-London-To-Africa" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">need</a> [slashdot.org] <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/03/18/1633253/Flying-Car-Passes-First-Flight-Test" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">roads</a> [slashdot.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Roads ?
Where we 're going , we [ slashdot.org ] do n't [ slashdot.org ] need [ slashdot.org ] roads [ slashdot.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Roads?
Where we're going, we [slashdot.org] don't [slashdot.org] need [slashdot.org] roads [slashdot.org].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340893</id>
	<title>Davis-Bacon Act</title>
	<author>TheSync</author>
	<datestamp>1245061140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One of the issues with the money from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 is that work must be done in accordance with the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis-Bacon\_Act" title="wikipedia.org">Davis-Bacon Act</a> [wikipedia.org], where the U.S. Department of Labor determines the "prevailing wage" in a given area for a particular type of construction (e.g., building, heavy, highway, or residential).  This may not reflect the lowest market wage, and can be much higher than the Federal or State minimum wage.  Thus the high cost of repaving, despite 10\% unemployment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the issues with the money from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 is that work must be done in accordance with the Davis-Bacon Act [ wikipedia.org ] , where the U.S. Department of Labor determines the " prevailing wage " in a given area for a particular type of construction ( e.g. , building , heavy , highway , or residential ) .
This may not reflect the lowest market wage , and can be much higher than the Federal or State minimum wage .
Thus the high cost of repaving , despite 10 \ % unemployment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the issues with the money from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 is that work must be done in accordance with the Davis-Bacon Act [wikipedia.org], where the U.S. Department of Labor determines the "prevailing wage" in a given area for a particular type of construction (e.g., building, heavy, highway, or residential).
This may not reflect the lowest market wage, and can be much higher than the Federal or State minimum wage.
Thus the high cost of repaving, despite 10\% unemployment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342587</id>
	<title>Re: Small state?</title>
	<author>\_ivy\_ivy\_</author>
	<datestamp>1245071400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Per Google Maps:
</p><p>Temperance, MI to Ironwood, MI: 11 hours 31 minutes.</p><p>Wilbaux, MT to Libby, MT: 11 hours and 59 minutes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Per Google Maps : Temperance , MI to Ironwood , MI : 11 hours 31 minutes.Wilbaux , MT to Libby , MT : 11 hours and 59 minutes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Per Google Maps:
Temperance, MI to Ironwood, MI: 11 hours 31 minutes.Wilbaux, MT to Libby, MT: 11 hours and 59 minutes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28353731</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel Roads are great - just ask West Virginia</title>
	<author>Grishnakh</author>
	<datestamp>1245147120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We're talking about Michigan here.  This is absolutely a place that needs to be allowed to revert to a more primitive state.  That state has been in a decline for several decades now, for many reasons: 1) the auto industry's decline, and 2) the general decline in the northeast.  For one thing, many people have no interest in living in the northeast because it's cold; there's better, warmer places to live, like California, the southeast, the southwest, the midwest, etc.  The only reason the northeast was ever a popular place to live was 1) that's where colonization started, and 2) there's lots of waterways making shipping from Europe easy, so most northeast cities started as shipping ports.  Now, things are different: most of our trading is with Asia, not Europe, and the rest of the country has been settled, so there simply isn't much of a reason to stay in the northeast.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're talking about Michigan here .
This is absolutely a place that needs to be allowed to revert to a more primitive state .
That state has been in a decline for several decades now , for many reasons : 1 ) the auto industry 's decline , and 2 ) the general decline in the northeast .
For one thing , many people have no interest in living in the northeast because it 's cold ; there 's better , warmer places to live , like California , the southeast , the southwest , the midwest , etc .
The only reason the northeast was ever a popular place to live was 1 ) that 's where colonization started , and 2 ) there 's lots of waterways making shipping from Europe easy , so most northeast cities started as shipping ports .
Now , things are different : most of our trading is with Asia , not Europe , and the rest of the country has been settled , so there simply is n't much of a reason to stay in the northeast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're talking about Michigan here.
This is absolutely a place that needs to be allowed to revert to a more primitive state.
That state has been in a decline for several decades now, for many reasons: 1) the auto industry's decline, and 2) the general decline in the northeast.
For one thing, many people have no interest in living in the northeast because it's cold; there's better, warmer places to live, like California, the southeast, the southwest, the midwest, etc.
The only reason the northeast was ever a popular place to live was 1) that's where colonization started, and 2) there's lots of waterways making shipping from Europe easy, so most northeast cities started as shipping ports.
Now, things are different: most of our trading is with Asia, not Europe, and the rest of the country has been settled, so there simply isn't much of a reason to stay in the northeast.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338499</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338379</id>
	<title>Yeah, it's the end of the world</title>
	<author>taustin</author>
	<datestamp>1245094980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>50 miles of country road (I'm guessing the pictures have nothing whatsoever to do with the roads actually converted) changed from paved to gravel, out of thousands in the state. Yawn. Gravel is actually better in little used roads, because it doesn't require nearly as much <em>active</em> maintenance, as in, driving over it with snowploughs when it snows, to be able to drive on it at all. These are, almost certainly, roads that didn't need to be paved in the first place.</p><p>This is complete non-news.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>50 miles of country road ( I 'm guessing the pictures have nothing whatsoever to do with the roads actually converted ) changed from paved to gravel , out of thousands in the state .
Yawn. Gravel is actually better in little used roads , because it does n't require nearly as much active maintenance , as in , driving over it with snowploughs when it snows , to be able to drive on it at all .
These are , almost certainly , roads that did n't need to be paved in the first place.This is complete non-news .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>50 miles of country road (I'm guessing the pictures have nothing whatsoever to do with the roads actually converted) changed from paved to gravel, out of thousands in the state.
Yawn. Gravel is actually better in little used roads, because it doesn't require nearly as much active maintenance, as in, driving over it with snowploughs when it snows, to be able to drive on it at all.
These are, almost certainly, roads that didn't need to be paved in the first place.This is complete non-news.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339443</id>
	<title>Re:Extremely Sensible</title>
	<author>fropenn</author>
	<datestamp>1245098640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Gravel roads are also more dangerous than paved roads. There are many gravel roads in the rural areas of my state and it is quite common to hear about a 1-car roll-over death on a gravel road.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gravel roads are also more dangerous than paved roads .
There are many gravel roads in the rural areas of my state and it is quite common to hear about a 1-car roll-over death on a gravel road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gravel roads are also more dangerous than paved roads.
There are many gravel roads in the rural areas of my state and it is quite common to hear about a 1-car roll-over death on a gravel road.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340137</id>
	<title>Re:Unintended consequences</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245058080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And the next day the government charges you because the paved road increases the value of your home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And the next day the government charges you because the paved road increases the value of your home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the next day the government charges you because the paved road increases the value of your home.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338647</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338905</id>
	<title>Re:Winter?</title>
	<author>fran6gagne</author>
	<datestamp>1245096780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I live in north Canada and, actually dirt and gravel roads are at their best in winter. Once the soil get completly frozen it gets as hard as asphalt and it can get plowed like any road. With good winter tires you can drive 100-110 km/h safely. The problem is when everything melt in spring and then the water scrap the road badly. That's why big trucks are mostly forbidden on those road during april and march.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in north Canada and , actually dirt and gravel roads are at their best in winter .
Once the soil get completly frozen it gets as hard as asphalt and it can get plowed like any road .
With good winter tires you can drive 100-110 km/h safely .
The problem is when everything melt in spring and then the water scrap the road badly .
That 's why big trucks are mostly forbidden on those road during april and march .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in north Canada and, actually dirt and gravel roads are at their best in winter.
Once the soil get completly frozen it gets as hard as asphalt and it can get plowed like any road.
With good winter tires you can drive 100-110 km/h safely.
The problem is when everything melt in spring and then the water scrap the road badly.
That's why big trucks are mostly forbidden on those road during april and march.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338473</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28344441</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>CAIMLAS</author>
	<datestamp>1245088740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gravel roads usually don't pothole. They get ruts. It'll happen mostly in the spring when large trucks (think farm vehicles) drive on the ground when there is a wet substructure to the gravel, causing the gravel to sink and spread. Another vehicle comes along, pushes it down some more - and wet soil, particularly with a heavy clay base, gets more pliable the more it's worked. This results in a fairly sizable rut on many roads.</p><p>Now, if you're not traveling it when it's wet and worn with a heavy vehicle, it's not such an issue. A gravel road, even a poorly maintained one, can last for decades without maintenance if you're not driving on it with a 2-ton pickup after a heavy rainfall.</p><p>Oh, and a good gravel road will allow a 'family car' to go about 60mph without much of a problem. I'd guess a gravel raod with moderate traffic gets regraded every 3-4 years out here in SD. (Hell, sometimes it's not even necessary when it gets really bad: someone with a big truck will just drive on the 'bumps' between the ruts after a rain and even it all out again!)</p><p>I say move all the goods transportation back to trains (and put more rail in to area population centers) and move the back roads to gravel as they degrade throughout most of the country. Over-the-road trucking, while providing jobs, is a fool's errand and very costly to the country (in terms of fuel for the trucks, labor, maintenance on the trucks and road, etc.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gravel roads usually do n't pothole .
They get ruts .
It 'll happen mostly in the spring when large trucks ( think farm vehicles ) drive on the ground when there is a wet substructure to the gravel , causing the gravel to sink and spread .
Another vehicle comes along , pushes it down some more - and wet soil , particularly with a heavy clay base , gets more pliable the more it 's worked .
This results in a fairly sizable rut on many roads.Now , if you 're not traveling it when it 's wet and worn with a heavy vehicle , it 's not such an issue .
A gravel road , even a poorly maintained one , can last for decades without maintenance if you 're not driving on it with a 2-ton pickup after a heavy rainfall.Oh , and a good gravel road will allow a 'family car ' to go about 60mph without much of a problem .
I 'd guess a gravel raod with moderate traffic gets regraded every 3-4 years out here in SD .
( Hell , sometimes it 's not even necessary when it gets really bad : someone with a big truck will just drive on the 'bumps ' between the ruts after a rain and even it all out again !
) I say move all the goods transportation back to trains ( and put more rail in to area population centers ) and move the back roads to gravel as they degrade throughout most of the country .
Over-the-road trucking , while providing jobs , is a fool 's errand and very costly to the country ( in terms of fuel for the trucks , labor , maintenance on the trucks and road , etc .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gravel roads usually don't pothole.
They get ruts.
It'll happen mostly in the spring when large trucks (think farm vehicles) drive on the ground when there is a wet substructure to the gravel, causing the gravel to sink and spread.
Another vehicle comes along, pushes it down some more - and wet soil, particularly with a heavy clay base, gets more pliable the more it's worked.
This results in a fairly sizable rut on many roads.Now, if you're not traveling it when it's wet and worn with a heavy vehicle, it's not such an issue.
A gravel road, even a poorly maintained one, can last for decades without maintenance if you're not driving on it with a 2-ton pickup after a heavy rainfall.Oh, and a good gravel road will allow a 'family car' to go about 60mph without much of a problem.
I'd guess a gravel raod with moderate traffic gets regraded every 3-4 years out here in SD.
(Hell, sometimes it's not even necessary when it gets really bad: someone with a big truck will just drive on the 'bumps' between the ruts after a rain and even it all out again!
)I say move all the goods transportation back to trains (and put more rail in to area population centers) and move the back roads to gravel as they degrade throughout most of the country.
Over-the-road trucking, while providing jobs, is a fool's errand and very costly to the country (in terms of fuel for the trucks, labor, maintenance on the trucks and road, etc.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340361</id>
	<title>Seriously, this is the end.</title>
	<author>nausea\_malvarma</author>
	<datestamp>1245058800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Let's pack up and go home. Michigan is a lost cause. We should have never lived there anyhow. Too cold. Here's my plan: Everybody move out of Michigan, and make the whole state a national park. Charge people to take tours of it's ghost towns and urban decay. Eventually, the wilderness will take back the state, and we'll have a great place to go camping.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's pack up and go home .
Michigan is a lost cause .
We should have never lived there anyhow .
Too cold .
Here 's my plan : Everybody move out of Michigan , and make the whole state a national park .
Charge people to take tours of it 's ghost towns and urban decay .
Eventually , the wilderness will take back the state , and we 'll have a great place to go camping .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's pack up and go home.
Michigan is a lost cause.
We should have never lived there anyhow.
Too cold.
Here's my plan: Everybody move out of Michigan, and make the whole state a national park.
Charge people to take tours of it's ghost towns and urban decay.
Eventually, the wilderness will take back the state, and we'll have a great place to go camping.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338579</id>
	<title>Re:Electricity and whale oil lighting?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245095760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I grew up on a gravel road.  It sucks!  Your vehicle is always seems to be dirty and needs maintenance much more frequently than those who don't drive on gravel.</p><p>Also, the counties where I grew up rarely serviced the gravel roads leaving them to become riddled with potholes and washboards.  Try driving over 30mph on a poorly maintained gravel road and your vehicle will feel like it is falling apart.  Also, the faster you go, the less control over the vehicle you have.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I grew up on a gravel road .
It sucks !
Your vehicle is always seems to be dirty and needs maintenance much more frequently than those who do n't drive on gravel.Also , the counties where I grew up rarely serviced the gravel roads leaving them to become riddled with potholes and washboards .
Try driving over 30mph on a poorly maintained gravel road and your vehicle will feel like it is falling apart .
Also , the faster you go , the less control over the vehicle you have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I grew up on a gravel road.
It sucks!
Your vehicle is always seems to be dirty and needs maintenance much more frequently than those who don't drive on gravel.Also, the counties where I grew up rarely serviced the gravel roads leaving them to become riddled with potholes and washboards.
Try driving over 30mph on a poorly maintained gravel road and your vehicle will feel like it is falling apart.
Also, the faster you go, the less control over the vehicle you have.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338371</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339135</id>
	<title>True dat.</title>
	<author>dupper</author>
	<datestamp>1245097500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Gravel roads are cheap to build, cheap to maintain, and represent an extremely sensible kind of cut that does not have a major quality of life impact.   Arguably they also have a rustic beauty, and look much nicer than a pot-holed, badly deteriorated paved road.</p></div><p>True that.  Hopefully the rest of the western world will take its decline this gracefully.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gravel roads are cheap to build , cheap to maintain , and represent an extremely sensible kind of cut that does not have a major quality of life impact .
Arguably they also have a rustic beauty , and look much nicer than a pot-holed , badly deteriorated paved road.True that .
Hopefully the rest of the western world will take its decline this gracefully .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gravel roads are cheap to build, cheap to maintain, and represent an extremely sensible kind of cut that does not have a major quality of life impact.
Arguably they also have a rustic beauty, and look much nicer than a pot-holed, badly deteriorated paved road.True that.
Hopefully the rest of the western world will take its decline this gracefully.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340765</id>
	<title>In the United States?</title>
	<author>assertation</author>
	<datestamp>1245060480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm amazed that this article is about the United States and not some third world country.  President Bush left a legacy alright.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm amazed that this article is about the United States and not some third world country .
President Bush left a legacy alright .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm amazed that this article is about the United States and not some third world country.
President Bush left a legacy alright.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342027</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel Roads are great - just ask West Virginia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245067740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gimme a break.  Sen. Byrd has secured enough federal road funds for WV to pave an interstate right up to the front door of every home in that state.</p><p>WV is poor because the only reason to live there is coal mining.  Everything else is a fiction of government designed to waste money on that state.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gim me a break .
Sen. Byrd has secured enough federal road funds for WV to pave an interstate right up to the front door of every home in that state.WV is poor because the only reason to live there is coal mining .
Everything else is a fiction of government designed to waste money on that state .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gimme a break.
Sen. Byrd has secured enough federal road funds for WV to pave an interstate right up to the front door of every home in that state.WV is poor because the only reason to live there is coal mining.
Everything else is a fiction of government designed to waste money on that state.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338499</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28353099</id>
	<title>So much for efficient transportation</title>
	<author>fugue</author>
	<datestamp>1245144600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rolling resistance goes through the roof!  This might increase the average energy use per distance travelled significantly, although I suppose that it might provide incentive for people to drive more slowly (less wind resistance) and to avoid driving more often, both of which are good things.  I wonder how it will pan out.

</p><p>.
</p><p>A real pity, though--bikes are a viable form of transportation <i>on pavement</i> where you can easily average 20mph, but forget it on gravel (and if you still want to bike, you really need not only slower but also more expensive and heavier bikes with suspension and knobby tires).  One more reason for people to refuse to bike anywhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rolling resistance goes through the roof !
This might increase the average energy use per distance travelled significantly , although I suppose that it might provide incentive for people to drive more slowly ( less wind resistance ) and to avoid driving more often , both of which are good things .
I wonder how it will pan out .
. A real pity , though--bikes are a viable form of transportation on pavement where you can easily average 20mph , but forget it on gravel ( and if you still want to bike , you really need not only slower but also more expensive and heavier bikes with suspension and knobby tires ) .
One more reason for people to refuse to bike anywhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rolling resistance goes through the roof!
This might increase the average energy use per distance travelled significantly, although I suppose that it might provide incentive for people to drive more slowly (less wind resistance) and to avoid driving more often, both of which are good things.
I wonder how it will pan out.
.
A real pity, though--bikes are a viable form of transportation on pavement where you can easily average 20mph, but forget it on gravel (and if you still want to bike, you really need not only slower but also more expensive and heavier bikes with suspension and knobby tires).
One more reason for people to refuse to bike anywhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340751</id>
	<title>Re:Why aren't more roads concrete?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245060480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you kidding? Concrete roads are terrible for driving on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you kidding ?
Concrete roads are terrible for driving on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you kidding?
Concrete roads are terrible for driving on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343711</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245081000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm in Quebec, Canada, and I've seen a rural backroad grinded to gravel to save a few pennies. This was a really small city (~1000) with no money, and for a road with lots of ups and downs, going at about 70km/h. They poured some kind of oil on it so it wouldn't be dusty when you'd pass on it. T'was great for a while. But eventually potholes got back, and instead of fixing them with gravel, they patched them back with asphalt... And 10-12 years later, they re-sufarced it... with asphalt...</p><p>So there it goes... some gained wisdom from the land of freeze/unfreeze . HTH.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in Quebec , Canada , and I 've seen a rural backroad grinded to gravel to save a few pennies .
This was a really small city ( ~ 1000 ) with no money , and for a road with lots of ups and downs , going at about 70km/h .
They poured some kind of oil on it so it would n't be dusty when you 'd pass on it .
T'was great for a while .
But eventually potholes got back , and instead of fixing them with gravel , they patched them back with asphalt... And 10-12 years later , they re-sufarced it... with asphalt...So there it goes... some gained wisdom from the land of freeze/unfreeze .
HTH .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in Quebec, Canada, and I've seen a rural backroad grinded to gravel to save a few pennies.
This was a really small city (~1000) with no money, and for a road with lots of ups and downs, going at about 70km/h.
They poured some kind of oil on it so it wouldn't be dusty when you'd pass on it.
T'was great for a while.
But eventually potholes got back, and instead of fixing them with gravel, they patched them back with asphalt... And 10-12 years later, they re-sufarced it... with asphalt...So there it goes... some gained wisdom from the land of freeze/unfreeze .
HTH.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338849</id>
	<title>Re:Winter?</title>
	<author>Sophacles</author>
	<datestamp>1245096660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In rural areas they dont need to be closed. They aren't even needed in winter, as no one is moving tractors around when there are no crops to plant/harvest/tend.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In rural areas they dont need to be closed .
They are n't even needed in winter , as no one is moving tractors around when there are no crops to plant/harvest/tend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In rural areas they dont need to be closed.
They aren't even needed in winter, as no one is moving tractors around when there are no crops to plant/harvest/tend.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338473</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28379703</id>
	<title>Re:We have an even cheaper way to make gravel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245316260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean 'Planned Obsolescence"....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean 'Planned Obsolescence " ... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean 'Planned Obsolescence"....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342237</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339013</id>
	<title>Re:Extremely Sensible</title>
	<author>aaandre</author>
	<datestamp>1245097080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>whale oil and *paved* roads have more in common: Both are unsustainable at this time.</p></div><p>With this passive remark you just added the U.S. to the third world, where you see the ultrarich driving their Bentleys on unmaintained roads.</p><p>Cheers!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>whale oil and * paved * roads have more in common : Both are unsustainable at this time.With this passive remark you just added the U.S. to the third world , where you see the ultrarich driving their Bentleys on unmaintained roads.Cheers !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>whale oil and *paved* roads have more in common: Both are unsustainable at this time.With this passive remark you just added the U.S. to the third world, where you see the ultrarich driving their Bentleys on unmaintained roads.Cheers!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338461</id>
	<title>Solving the funding</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245095280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not to start a flamewar here, but I'm interested in hearing how our libertarian-leaning friends here on Slashdot would handle this situation. Socialists would probably increase taxes to raise more money for public projects as this, but what would you do?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to start a flamewar here , but I 'm interested in hearing how our libertarian-leaning friends here on Slashdot would handle this situation .
Socialists would probably increase taxes to raise more money for public projects as this , but what would you do ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to start a flamewar here, but I'm interested in hearing how our libertarian-leaning friends here on Slashdot would handle this situation.
Socialists would probably increase taxes to raise more money for public projects as this, but what would you do?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340683</id>
	<title>As the navigator half of a TSD rally team...</title>
	<author>NevarMore</author>
	<datestamp>1245060060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>WOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!</p><p>Gravel roads are much more fun to run rallies on than tarmac.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WOOOHOOOOOO ! ! ! !
! Gravel roads are much more fun to run rallies on than tarmac .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WOOOHOOOOOO!!!!
!Gravel roads are much more fun to run rallies on than tarmac.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338835</id>
	<title>Re:Extremely Sensible</title>
	<author>Killer Orca</author>
	<datestamp>1245096600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But if Michigan invested in developing hovercars then no one would care what the roads looked like!</htmltext>
<tokenext>But if Michigan invested in developing hovercars then no one would care what the roads looked like !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But if Michigan invested in developing hovercars then no one would care what the roads looked like!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338517</id>
	<title>Re:Electricity and whale oil lighting?</title>
	<author>kelnos</author>
	<datestamp>1245095520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>[insert obligatory "you didn't get the joke" placeholder here]</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ insert obligatory " you did n't get the joke " placeholder here ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[insert obligatory "you didn't get the joke" placeholder here]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338371</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28350027</id>
	<title>Re:The Gravel Road of things to Come</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1245176520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hyperbole much?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hyperbole much ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hyperbole much?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339493</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340969</id>
	<title>Peru, IL</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245061620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here in Peru, IL the city didn't budget appropriately for salt and plows last winter.  This last winter was rather bad too.  Sure, the city saved money, but I'll end up spending it on higher insurance rates because of the much larger number of accidents people were involved in.  My friend was rear ended twice the same week in both of her vehicles.  What happened to thinking about the safety of the public?  Someone dies on that road and I'm sure there will be a lawsuit filed against the city...</p><p>None of this news really surprises me anymore.  It's a sign of the times, nothing more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in Peru , IL the city did n't budget appropriately for salt and plows last winter .
This last winter was rather bad too .
Sure , the city saved money , but I 'll end up spending it on higher insurance rates because of the much larger number of accidents people were involved in .
My friend was rear ended twice the same week in both of her vehicles .
What happened to thinking about the safety of the public ?
Someone dies on that road and I 'm sure there will be a lawsuit filed against the city...None of this news really surprises me anymore .
It 's a sign of the times , nothing more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in Peru, IL the city didn't budget appropriately for salt and plows last winter.
This last winter was rather bad too.
Sure, the city saved money, but I'll end up spending it on higher insurance rates because of the much larger number of accidents people were involved in.
My friend was rear ended twice the same week in both of her vehicles.
What happened to thinking about the safety of the public?
Someone dies on that road and I'm sure there will be a lawsuit filed against the city...None of this news really surprises me anymore.
It's a sign of the times, nothing more.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28382207</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>TBoon</author>
	<datestamp>1245326160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think I've seen the same documentary. I don't remember it suggesting that the US interstates were a bad copy as much as the germans insistence of unlimited speeds essentially required them to build them properly to avoid constant repairs to keep them up to standards. I also remember reading about some US construction guy claiming it wasn't any problem for his crew to build a road lasting 50-100 years, but if he put that offer on the table to the politicians, they would give the job to someone else who would offer to build the road for half the price, despite the resulting road desperately needing repairs within a decade. When it comes to roads, all evidence points to high construction costs saving money in the long term. (Now, if only someone could teach the meaning of that word ("long term") to politicians...)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think I 've seen the same documentary .
I do n't remember it suggesting that the US interstates were a bad copy as much as the germans insistence of unlimited speeds essentially required them to build them properly to avoid constant repairs to keep them up to standards .
I also remember reading about some US construction guy claiming it was n't any problem for his crew to build a road lasting 50-100 years , but if he put that offer on the table to the politicians , they would give the job to someone else who would offer to build the road for half the price , despite the resulting road desperately needing repairs within a decade .
When it comes to roads , all evidence points to high construction costs saving money in the long term .
( Now , if only someone could teach the meaning of that word ( " long term " ) to politicians... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think I've seen the same documentary.
I don't remember it suggesting that the US interstates were a bad copy as much as the germans insistence of unlimited speeds essentially required them to build them properly to avoid constant repairs to keep them up to standards.
I also remember reading about some US construction guy claiming it wasn't any problem for his crew to build a road lasting 50-100 years, but if he put that offer on the table to the politicians, they would give the job to someone else who would offer to build the road for half the price, despite the resulting road desperately needing repairs within a decade.
When it comes to roads, all evidence points to high construction costs saving money in the long term.
(Now, if only someone could teach the meaning of that word ("long term") to politicians...)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339035</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339485</id>
	<title>Potholes vs. Gravel</title>
	<author>UrTax$AtWork</author>
	<datestamp>1245098820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll take a well-maintained gravel road over pothole-strewn pavement any day!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll take a well-maintained gravel road over pothole-strewn pavement any day !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll take a well-maintained gravel road over pothole-strewn pavement any day!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338661</id>
	<title>Re:Extremely Sensible</title>
	<author>maeka</author>
	<datestamp>1245096000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gravel roads have an increased stopping distance over asphalt or concrete ones.  They also contribute much more to vehicle wear and tear - not only as far as nicks and dings, but also tires and shocks.  (though the later part is just as true of badly potholed roads)  They are significantly dirtier than asphalt or concrete roads, both for the vehicle (small concern) but also for the surrounding homes and businesses.  When I lived on Middle Bass Island, it was quite common for neighbors to band together to pave their section of road just to cut down on the fine dust which accumulated inside their homes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gravel roads have an increased stopping distance over asphalt or concrete ones .
They also contribute much more to vehicle wear and tear - not only as far as nicks and dings , but also tires and shocks .
( though the later part is just as true of badly potholed roads ) They are significantly dirtier than asphalt or concrete roads , both for the vehicle ( small concern ) but also for the surrounding homes and businesses .
When I lived on Middle Bass Island , it was quite common for neighbors to band together to pave their section of road just to cut down on the fine dust which accumulated inside their homes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gravel roads have an increased stopping distance over asphalt or concrete ones.
They also contribute much more to vehicle wear and tear - not only as far as nicks and dings, but also tires and shocks.
(though the later part is just as true of badly potholed roads)  They are significantly dirtier than asphalt or concrete roads, both for the vehicle (small concern) but also for the surrounding homes and businesses.
When I lived on Middle Bass Island, it was quite common for neighbors to band together to pave their section of road just to cut down on the fine dust which accumulated inside their homes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338619</id>
	<title>Re:Extremely Sensible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245095880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps the post should move to State of Michigan, pay local taxes there so he can have paved roads.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps the post should move to State of Michigan , pay local taxes there so he can have paved roads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps the post should move to State of Michigan, pay local taxes there so he can have paved roads.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339659</id>
	<title>A billion dollar video game industry while. . .</title>
	<author>Fantastic Lad</author>
	<datestamp>1245099480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While we dream away into the digital haze, our greed-based economy drives hell-bent toward entropy.</p><p>What did we <i>think</i> would happen?</p><p>Rolling blackouts and hospitals dumping patients, levees bursting, corruption, corruption, corruption. . .  Guantanamo is still in business and the populace is apparently cool with that.  Corporate America in action.  But do we purge the nation of the scum?  Nope.  Hell, most people can't even see who the scum is, so hopped up on religion and propaganda and so dumbed down on toxic food and poisons in the water and the air and the EM spectrum. . .  They blame the left or the right, the slaves blame the slaves when they should be tarring and feathering the psychotic lunatics who are actually pulling the switches, robbing the public blind.  But nobody can seem to reach consensus because there are enough stupid slaves still believing the lies.  And so we play our video games and drive on third world roads and generally pretend we're not in a state of decay.  Marvelous.</p><p>Me, though. . .  I'm a lot more pissed off than I need to be.  Fed up on other people's self-destructive stupidity.  I have trouble accepting that kids need to burn themselves in order to learn.  I have trouble distancing myself emotionally from the giant mess all the muggle/hobbits have made of the world.</p><p>-FL</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While we dream away into the digital haze , our greed-based economy drives hell-bent toward entropy.What did we think would happen ? Rolling blackouts and hospitals dumping patients , levees bursting , corruption , corruption , corruption .
. .
Guantanamo is still in business and the populace is apparently cool with that .
Corporate America in action .
But do we purge the nation of the scum ?
Nope. Hell , most people ca n't even see who the scum is , so hopped up on religion and propaganda and so dumbed down on toxic food and poisons in the water and the air and the EM spectrum .
. .
They blame the left or the right , the slaves blame the slaves when they should be tarring and feathering the psychotic lunatics who are actually pulling the switches , robbing the public blind .
But nobody can seem to reach consensus because there are enough stupid slaves still believing the lies .
And so we play our video games and drive on third world roads and generally pretend we 're not in a state of decay .
Marvelous.Me , though .
. .
I 'm a lot more pissed off than I need to be .
Fed up on other people 's self-destructive stupidity .
I have trouble accepting that kids need to burn themselves in order to learn .
I have trouble distancing myself emotionally from the giant mess all the muggle/hobbits have made of the world.-FL</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While we dream away into the digital haze, our greed-based economy drives hell-bent toward entropy.What did we think would happen?Rolling blackouts and hospitals dumping patients, levees bursting, corruption, corruption, corruption.
. .
Guantanamo is still in business and the populace is apparently cool with that.
Corporate America in action.
But do we purge the nation of the scum?
Nope.  Hell, most people can't even see who the scum is, so hopped up on religion and propaganda and so dumbed down on toxic food and poisons in the water and the air and the EM spectrum.
. .
They blame the left or the right, the slaves blame the slaves when they should be tarring and feathering the psychotic lunatics who are actually pulling the switches, robbing the public blind.
But nobody can seem to reach consensus because there are enough stupid slaves still believing the lies.
And so we play our video games and drive on third world roads and generally pretend we're not in a state of decay.
Marvelous.Me, though.
. .
I'm a lot more pissed off than I need to be.
Fed up on other people's self-destructive stupidity.
I have trouble accepting that kids need to burn themselves in order to learn.
I have trouble distancing myself emotionally from the giant mess all the muggle/hobbits have made of the world.-FL</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339735</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245056580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Be careful with throwing around the term "conservative politics" even with a lower case "c".  The corruption, such as it is, has compromised everyone from left to right, top to bottom.</p><p>Also, bear in mind that the corruption is not just politicians, its also powerful labor unions, and voters who want more stuff, but want to pay less money for it.</p><p>I would say that the major problem is neither corruption, nor modernization.  Those problems exist, of course, but the real problem is that we built a lot of stuff that we can't maintain in the long run.  We have programs that don't work well under our system of government.</p><p>Also keep in mind, a lot of these other countries with "superior" systems are a lot smaller in terms of population and infrastructure than the US and are easier to manage.  They also have relatively recent investments in things that have been in the US for decades.  It's not exactly apples and oranges, but there is a significant difference.  That's why I get annoyed when people point at the successes of smaller countries at doing certain things.  Small countries, smaller problems, less complexity.  Works on a similar scale in the US are massive undertakings, well worth the effort of devising the best and worst methods of taking advantage of them.</p><p>That's why I'm a big proponent of doing our best to avoid unwarranted wealth transfers to areas that do not generate wealth.  You're removing money and motivation from the very people who actually make the money in order to satisfy people who get a vote simply for breathing air and not getting caught committing a felony.  No issue is simple, but the best way to apply global taxes is to apply that money to programs that fix problems that everyone has.  If you have to create a few programs to aid cities or the countryside because one benefits the other, that's okay to a point.  But when your politics is what is sending the money, and not necessity, then that money needs to stay out of the hands of the government.</p><p>The problem is mostly politics, and that's why, in the long run socialized programs will fail.  It will eventually erode the discipline and effectiveness of the people trying to run it.  Corruption is only one extreme facet of that problem.  Until we realize that we can't just throw around money at every little problem plaguing us since the beginning of time, we will be converting roads to gravel at an increasing rate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Be careful with throwing around the term " conservative politics " even with a lower case " c " .
The corruption , such as it is , has compromised everyone from left to right , top to bottom.Also , bear in mind that the corruption is not just politicians , its also powerful labor unions , and voters who want more stuff , but want to pay less money for it.I would say that the major problem is neither corruption , nor modernization .
Those problems exist , of course , but the real problem is that we built a lot of stuff that we ca n't maintain in the long run .
We have programs that do n't work well under our system of government.Also keep in mind , a lot of these other countries with " superior " systems are a lot smaller in terms of population and infrastructure than the US and are easier to manage .
They also have relatively recent investments in things that have been in the US for decades .
It 's not exactly apples and oranges , but there is a significant difference .
That 's why I get annoyed when people point at the successes of smaller countries at doing certain things .
Small countries , smaller problems , less complexity .
Works on a similar scale in the US are massive undertakings , well worth the effort of devising the best and worst methods of taking advantage of them.That 's why I 'm a big proponent of doing our best to avoid unwarranted wealth transfers to areas that do not generate wealth .
You 're removing money and motivation from the very people who actually make the money in order to satisfy people who get a vote simply for breathing air and not getting caught committing a felony .
No issue is simple , but the best way to apply global taxes is to apply that money to programs that fix problems that everyone has .
If you have to create a few programs to aid cities or the countryside because one benefits the other , that 's okay to a point .
But when your politics is what is sending the money , and not necessity , then that money needs to stay out of the hands of the government.The problem is mostly politics , and that 's why , in the long run socialized programs will fail .
It will eventually erode the discipline and effectiveness of the people trying to run it .
Corruption is only one extreme facet of that problem .
Until we realize that we ca n't just throw around money at every little problem plaguing us since the beginning of time , we will be converting roads to gravel at an increasing rate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Be careful with throwing around the term "conservative politics" even with a lower case "c".
The corruption, such as it is, has compromised everyone from left to right, top to bottom.Also, bear in mind that the corruption is not just politicians, its also powerful labor unions, and voters who want more stuff, but want to pay less money for it.I would say that the major problem is neither corruption, nor modernization.
Those problems exist, of course, but the real problem is that we built a lot of stuff that we can't maintain in the long run.
We have programs that don't work well under our system of government.Also keep in mind, a lot of these other countries with "superior" systems are a lot smaller in terms of population and infrastructure than the US and are easier to manage.
They also have relatively recent investments in things that have been in the US for decades.
It's not exactly apples and oranges, but there is a significant difference.
That's why I get annoyed when people point at the successes of smaller countries at doing certain things.
Small countries, smaller problems, less complexity.
Works on a similar scale in the US are massive undertakings, well worth the effort of devising the best and worst methods of taking advantage of them.That's why I'm a big proponent of doing our best to avoid unwarranted wealth transfers to areas that do not generate wealth.
You're removing money and motivation from the very people who actually make the money in order to satisfy people who get a vote simply for breathing air and not getting caught committing a felony.
No issue is simple, but the best way to apply global taxes is to apply that money to programs that fix problems that everyone has.
If you have to create a few programs to aid cities or the countryside because one benefits the other, that's okay to a point.
But when your politics is what is sending the money, and not necessity, then that money needs to stay out of the hands of the government.The problem is mostly politics, and that's why, in the long run socialized programs will fail.
It will eventually erode the discipline and effectiveness of the people trying to run it.
Corruption is only one extreme facet of that problem.
Until we realize that we can't just throw around money at every little problem plaguing us since the beginning of time, we will be converting roads to gravel at an increasing rate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338769</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342215</id>
	<title>instead of repaving...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245068940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's build a MonoRail!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's build a MonoRail !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's build a MonoRail!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341895</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245067020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Also keep in mind, a lot of these other countries with "superior" systems are a lot smaller in terms of population and infrastructure than the US and are easier to manage.</p> </div><p>I keep hearing Americans make this argument, but it doesn't make sense. If you have ten times the population that needs infrastructure, then you have ten times the tax base. If you don't have ten times the tax base, then you are doing something wrong. And with ten times the population, there ought to at least <i>some</i> economies of scale. Even without economies of scale, how is it harder to manage?</p><p>The companion argument I always hear is that the US has greater difficulties because its population is less dense. Even this argument does not stand up to scrutiny.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also keep in mind , a lot of these other countries with " superior " systems are a lot smaller in terms of population and infrastructure than the US and are easier to manage .
I keep hearing Americans make this argument , but it does n't make sense .
If you have ten times the population that needs infrastructure , then you have ten times the tax base .
If you do n't have ten times the tax base , then you are doing something wrong .
And with ten times the population , there ought to at least some economies of scale .
Even without economies of scale , how is it harder to manage ? The companion argument I always hear is that the US has greater difficulties because its population is less dense .
Even this argument does not stand up to scrutiny .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Also keep in mind, a lot of these other countries with "superior" systems are a lot smaller in terms of population and infrastructure than the US and are easier to manage.
I keep hearing Americans make this argument, but it doesn't make sense.
If you have ten times the population that needs infrastructure, then you have ten times the tax base.
If you don't have ten times the tax base, then you are doing something wrong.
And with ten times the population, there ought to at least some economies of scale.
Even without economies of scale, how is it harder to manage?The companion argument I always hear is that the US has greater difficulties because its population is less dense.
Even this argument does not stand up to scrutiny.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339735</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341669</id>
	<title>It's been a long wait but...</title>
	<author>namgge</author>
	<datestamp>1245065580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
at last! My shares in buggy-whip manufacturers will finally come good.
</p><p>
Namgge
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>at last !
My shares in buggy-whip manufacturers will finally come good .
Namgge</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
at last!
My shares in buggy-whip manufacturers will finally come good.
Namgge
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339645</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245099420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>100k$/mile seems to be pretty cheap. Some attempt at estimating some more imaginable quantities of road: Let's assume the road is 6 meter wide. A mile is 1609something meter. Thus, the price is about 10$/m^2.</p><p>http://www.acaf.org/Asphalt\%20Price\%20Index/Asphalt\%20Price\%20Index\%20-\%20July\%2008.pdf</p><p>The price of asphalt is about 0.68 $/l. Thus, for 10$ you can get 14.7 l, which cover 1 m^2 with a thickness of 1.4 cm (which is about 0.6 inch). This seems a bit thin. And it's just the price of the raw material - not yet a usable mixture, no-one paid yet to put it on the road.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>100k $ /mile seems to be pretty cheap .
Some attempt at estimating some more imaginable quantities of road : Let 's assume the road is 6 meter wide .
A mile is 1609something meter .
Thus , the price is about 10 $ /m ^ 2.http : //www.acaf.org/Asphalt \ % 20Price \ % 20Index/Asphalt \ % 20Price \ % 20Index \ % 20- \ % 20July \ % 2008.pdfThe price of asphalt is about 0.68 $ /l .
Thus , for 10 $ you can get 14.7 l , which cover 1 m ^ 2 with a thickness of 1.4 cm ( which is about 0.6 inch ) .
This seems a bit thin .
And it 's just the price of the raw material - not yet a usable mixture , no-one paid yet to put it on the road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>100k$/mile seems to be pretty cheap.
Some attempt at estimating some more imaginable quantities of road: Let's assume the road is 6 meter wide.
A mile is 1609something meter.
Thus, the price is about 10$/m^2.http://www.acaf.org/Asphalt\%20Price\%20Index/Asphalt\%20Price\%20Index\%20-\%20July\%2008.pdfThe price of asphalt is about 0.68 $/l.
Thus, for 10$ you can get 14.7 l, which cover 1 m^2 with a thickness of 1.4 cm (which is about 0.6 inch).
This seems a bit thin.
And it's just the price of the raw material - not yet a usable mixture, no-one paid yet to put it on the road.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338427</id>
	<title>Re:Not the only cost...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245095160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah but think of the economic stimulus it will provide for tire shops and vehicle repair businesses.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah but think of the economic stimulus it will provide for tire shops and vehicle repair businesses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah but think of the economic stimulus it will provide for tire shops and vehicle repair businesses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339893</id>
	<title>We have an even cheaper way to make gravel</title>
	<author>objekt</author>
	<datestamp>1245057180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just drive on the roads until they crumble.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just drive on the roads until they crumble .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just drive on the roads until they crumble.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338311</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28396091</id>
	<title>Where I grew up</title>
	<author>bobdole369</author>
	<datestamp>1245407400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Born in 1979, spent my pre and teen years in Redford or Redford Township, MI.  They STILL don't have paved roads from what I hear.  This city of 50k or so which butts up against the western edge of Detroit proper - has roughly 30\% of its residential roads still dirt.  Today - in 2009.  Potholes, water trucks spraying god knows what, mud, all kinds of fun to be had. Best part was shagging cars in the winter because there was really no danger, you could lose grip and no way you can scrape your face on dirt, at least not nearly as bad as you could end up in the hospital doing that on pavement.</p><p>According to wikipedia - this city is 89\% white.  Mostly trash (according to me, who lived there for a long time).  Cross Telegraph Rd - and it's 89\% black.  White flight at its worst. Except these folks didn't get far enough.</p><p>I'm not shocked at this - it costs SO much money and no matter how much they throw at the roads they still have dozens of freeze thaw cycles to destroy them in a couple years.</p><p>Down here in south florida we have roads that have lasted 20 years and look damn good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Born in 1979 , spent my pre and teen years in Redford or Redford Township , MI .
They STILL do n't have paved roads from what I hear .
This city of 50k or so which butts up against the western edge of Detroit proper - has roughly 30 \ % of its residential roads still dirt .
Today - in 2009 .
Potholes , water trucks spraying god knows what , mud , all kinds of fun to be had .
Best part was shagging cars in the winter because there was really no danger , you could lose grip and no way you can scrape your face on dirt , at least not nearly as bad as you could end up in the hospital doing that on pavement.According to wikipedia - this city is 89 \ % white .
Mostly trash ( according to me , who lived there for a long time ) .
Cross Telegraph Rd - and it 's 89 \ % black .
White flight at its worst .
Except these folks did n't get far enough.I 'm not shocked at this - it costs SO much money and no matter how much they throw at the roads they still have dozens of freeze thaw cycles to destroy them in a couple years.Down here in south florida we have roads that have lasted 20 years and look damn good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Born in 1979, spent my pre and teen years in Redford or Redford Township, MI.
They STILL don't have paved roads from what I hear.
This city of 50k or so which butts up against the western edge of Detroit proper - has roughly 30\% of its residential roads still dirt.
Today - in 2009.
Potholes, water trucks spraying god knows what, mud, all kinds of fun to be had.
Best part was shagging cars in the winter because there was really no danger, you could lose grip and no way you can scrape your face on dirt, at least not nearly as bad as you could end up in the hospital doing that on pavement.According to wikipedia - this city is 89\% white.
Mostly trash (according to me, who lived there for a long time).
Cross Telegraph Rd - and it's 89\% black.
White flight at its worst.
Except these folks didn't get far enough.I'm not shocked at this - it costs SO much money and no matter how much they throw at the roads they still have dozens of freeze thaw cycles to destroy them in a couple years.Down here in south florida we have roads that have lasted 20 years and look damn good.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342711</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245072480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Michigan is the 8th most populous and 11th in area, relativity small?? it takes more than 14 hours to get from end to end, Wisconsin to Ohio.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Michigan is the 8th most populous and 11th in area , relativity small ? ?
it takes more than 14 hours to get from end to end , Wisconsin to Ohio .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Michigan is the 8th most populous and 11th in area, relativity small??
it takes more than 14 hours to get from end to end, Wisconsin to Ohio.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338671</id>
	<title>Road-ploughing in Victoria, Australia</title>
	<author>benjfowler</author>
	<datestamp>1245096060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ripping up asphalt roads into gravel is not unusual when governments are trying to save money.  I've seen this happen in Australia.</p><p>Years ago, Victoria elected a conservative government, headed by a gentleman called Jeff Kennett.  Admittedly, he inherited a massive mountain of debt racked up by a previous Labour government, but he immediately made himself hugely unpopular by slashing and burning all public spending and picking fights with everybody in sight.  Much of his brutal cost-cutting was ripping up the roads throughout country Victoria, which undoubtedly endeared him greatly to his rural supporters...</p><p>From my limited experience, ripping up roads to save money is a sign of extreme desperation.  Things must be bad indeed in parts of Michigan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ripping up asphalt roads into gravel is not unusual when governments are trying to save money .
I 've seen this happen in Australia.Years ago , Victoria elected a conservative government , headed by a gentleman called Jeff Kennett .
Admittedly , he inherited a massive mountain of debt racked up by a previous Labour government , but he immediately made himself hugely unpopular by slashing and burning all public spending and picking fights with everybody in sight .
Much of his brutal cost-cutting was ripping up the roads throughout country Victoria , which undoubtedly endeared him greatly to his rural supporters...From my limited experience , ripping up roads to save money is a sign of extreme desperation .
Things must be bad indeed in parts of Michigan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ripping up asphalt roads into gravel is not unusual when governments are trying to save money.
I've seen this happen in Australia.Years ago, Victoria elected a conservative government, headed by a gentleman called Jeff Kennett.
Admittedly, he inherited a massive mountain of debt racked up by a previous Labour government, but he immediately made himself hugely unpopular by slashing and burning all public spending and picking fights with everybody in sight.
Much of his brutal cost-cutting was ripping up the roads throughout country Victoria, which undoubtedly endeared him greatly to his rural supporters...From my limited experience, ripping up roads to save money is a sign of extreme desperation.
Things must be bad indeed in parts of Michigan.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343513</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel Roads are great - just ask West Virginia</title>
	<author>lahvak</author>
	<datestamp>1245079140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are comparing gravel road and well paved road.  I would much rather drive on a gravel road than a paved road full of huge potholes, or multiple layers of badly patched potholes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are comparing gravel road and well paved road .
I would much rather drive on a gravel road than a paved road full of huge potholes , or multiple layers of badly patched potholes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are comparing gravel road and well paved road.
I would much rather drive on a gravel road than a paved road full of huge potholes, or multiple layers of badly patched potholes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338499</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339107</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245097380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because the US got into a culture where private contractors have to rip off the public sector the most they can.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because the US got into a culture where private contractors have to rip off the public sector the most they can .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because the US got into a culture where private contractors have to rip off the public sector the most they can.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28378161</id>
	<title>Re:Michigan is fucked</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245355080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lackluster leaders since SOAPY.</p><p>Capitol in Lansing is what needs to be recycled back to nature.</p><p>Too bad the Michigan Militia is such a bunch of sissies.</p><p>Oh, and a special "FY" goes out to fatzo Spence Abraham<br>for doing NOTHING as US Energy Secretary.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lackluster leaders since SOAPY.Capitol in Lansing is what needs to be recycled back to nature.Too bad the Michigan Militia is such a bunch of sissies.Oh , and a special " FY " goes out to fatzo Spence Abrahamfor doing NOTHING as US Energy Secretary .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lackluster leaders since SOAPY.Capitol in Lansing is what needs to be recycled back to nature.Too bad the Michigan Militia is such a bunch of sissies.Oh, and a special "FY" goes out to fatzo Spence Abrahamfor doing NOTHING as US Energy Secretary.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338311</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339175</id>
	<title>Re:Michitucky?</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1245097620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; You can't plow them for snow removal.</p><p>Where did you get that bizarre idea?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; You ca n't plow them for snow removal.Where did you get that bizarre idea ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; You can't plow them for snow removal.Where did you get that bizarre idea?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338705</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338771</id>
	<title>Re:Not the only cost...</title>
	<author>starglider29a</author>
	<datestamp>1245096360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A friend lives less than a mile from a paved road. In spring, their dirt/gravel road become nearly impassible due to 'permafrost' below trapping the melt and the top layer turns to baby-poop. So, he has been forced to own 4-wheel drive vehicles to get out of that. Then, he drives 30+ to work. Times 2 when his wife started working. Over a decade or so, it would have been cheaper to pay to have the road paved.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A friend lives less than a mile from a paved road .
In spring , their dirt/gravel road become nearly impassible due to 'permafrost ' below trapping the melt and the top layer turns to baby-poop .
So , he has been forced to own 4-wheel drive vehicles to get out of that .
Then , he drives 30 + to work .
Times 2 when his wife started working .
Over a decade or so , it would have been cheaper to pay to have the road paved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A friend lives less than a mile from a paved road.
In spring, their dirt/gravel road become nearly impassible due to 'permafrost' below trapping the melt and the top layer turns to baby-poop.
So, he has been forced to own 4-wheel drive vehicles to get out of that.
Then, he drives 30+ to work.
Times 2 when his wife started working.
Over a decade or so, it would have been cheaper to pay to have the road paved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343271</id>
	<title>The next step is to turn cars into horses</title>
	<author>OutputLogic</author>
	<datestamp>1245077040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The next step would be to turn cars into horses.

<br> <br> <a href="http://outputlogic.com/" title="outputlogic.com" rel="nofollow">OutputLogic</a> [outputlogic.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The next step would be to turn cars into horses .
OutputLogic [ outputlogic.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The next step would be to turn cars into horses.
OutputLogic [outputlogic.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340367</id>
	<title>Re:Flying Car Argument</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1245058800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Deer 1: Look at the new flying cars those Americans created, now we can't get run over anymore! <br>
<br>
Deer 2: I know, and there aren't any more stupid roads to cross!<br>
<br>
Deer 1: Wait, I think I heard something.<br>
<br>
Deer 2: What?<br>
<br>
Deer 3: Look up!<br>
<br>
Deer 2: What? [splat]<br>
<br>
Deer 1: Crap, I forgot those people can barely avoid accidents on the ground, much less in the air where you can't see the lanes and they're at 500 kilometers per hour. <br>
<br>
Deer 3: Wait, how do you know all this about their cars?<br>
<br>
Deer 1: Um... the horse union?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Deer 1 : Look at the new flying cars those Americans created , now we ca n't get run over anymore !
Deer 2 : I know , and there are n't any more stupid roads to cross !
Deer 1 : Wait , I think I heard something .
Deer 2 : What ?
Deer 3 : Look up !
Deer 2 : What ?
[ splat ] Deer 1 : Crap , I forgot those people can barely avoid accidents on the ground , much less in the air where you ca n't see the lanes and they 're at 500 kilometers per hour .
Deer 3 : Wait , how do you know all this about their cars ?
Deer 1 : Um... the horse union ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Deer 1: Look at the new flying cars those Americans created, now we can't get run over anymore!
Deer 2: I know, and there aren't any more stupid roads to cross!
Deer 1: Wait, I think I heard something.
Deer 2: What?
Deer 3: Look up!
Deer 2: What?
[splat]

Deer 1: Crap, I forgot those people can barely avoid accidents on the ground, much less in the air where you can't see the lanes and they're at 500 kilometers per hour.
Deer 3: Wait, how do you know all this about their cars?
Deer 1: Um... the horse union?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338513</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341379</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245064020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ahem. I conveniently just got back from two trips around Michigan. Its bigger than you think. Driving from the capitol to copper harbor is around 560 miles one way. I just drove it twice, then went to Wisconsin and back. Yay fourteen hour driving days!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ahem .
I conveniently just got back from two trips around Michigan .
Its bigger than you think .
Driving from the capitol to copper harbor is around 560 miles one way .
I just drove it twice , then went to Wisconsin and back .
Yay fourteen hour driving days !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ahem.
I conveniently just got back from two trips around Michigan.
Its bigger than you think.
Driving from the capitol to copper harbor is around 560 miles one way.
I just drove it twice, then went to Wisconsin and back.
Yay fourteen hour driving days!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28353755</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Grishnakh</author>
	<datestamp>1245147240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>That's why I get annoyed when people point at the successes of smaller countries at doing certain things. Small countries, smaller problems, less complexity. Works on a similar scale in the US are massive undertakings, well worth the effort of devising the best and worst methods of taking advantage of them.</i></p><p>That's why I think the US needs to split up into a bunch of smaller countries.  When things (companies, countries, etc.) become too big, they become too hard to manage.  The solution is simple: break things up so they're kept small.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's why I get annoyed when people point at the successes of smaller countries at doing certain things .
Small countries , smaller problems , less complexity .
Works on a similar scale in the US are massive undertakings , well worth the effort of devising the best and worst methods of taking advantage of them.That 's why I think the US needs to split up into a bunch of smaller countries .
When things ( companies , countries , etc .
) become too big , they become too hard to manage .
The solution is simple : break things up so they 're kept small .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's why I get annoyed when people point at the successes of smaller countries at doing certain things.
Small countries, smaller problems, less complexity.
Works on a similar scale in the US are massive undertakings, well worth the effort of devising the best and worst methods of taking advantage of them.That's why I think the US needs to split up into a bunch of smaller countries.
When things (companies, countries, etc.
) become too big, they become too hard to manage.
The solution is simple: break things up so they're kept small.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339735</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338941</id>
	<title>Re:Crazy Administration blame game accusations</title>
	<author>Killer Orca</author>
	<datestamp>1245096840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And another guy wrote, goomygoomy writes,
<i>"I don't understand the problem. Why would you complain about PAVED ROADS, being turned in to GRAVEL ROADS? It's just CHANGE. I thought you all VOTED for CHANGE? Well...You've got it. Michigan, the Great Liberal Basket Case, is leading the way. As goes DETROIT, so goes Obama Nation. Aren't you IDIOTS bulldozing your towns down? This is UNCHECKED LIBERALISM. This is Obama SOCIALISM."</i> </p></div><p>Ha, I heard Rush Limbaugh making the same claim as goomygoomy, good to know that his logic was on-par with a forum troll's.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And another guy wrote , goomygoomy writes , " I do n't understand the problem .
Why would you complain about PAVED ROADS , being turned in to GRAVEL ROADS ?
It 's just CHANGE .
I thought you all VOTED for CHANGE ?
Well...You 've got it .
Michigan , the Great Liberal Basket Case , is leading the way .
As goes DETROIT , so goes Obama Nation .
Are n't you IDIOTS bulldozing your towns down ?
This is UNCHECKED LIBERALISM .
This is Obama SOCIALISM .
" Ha , I heard Rush Limbaugh making the same claim as goomygoomy , good to know that his logic was on-par with a forum troll 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And another guy wrote, goomygoomy writes,
"I don't understand the problem.
Why would you complain about PAVED ROADS, being turned in to GRAVEL ROADS?
It's just CHANGE.
I thought you all VOTED for CHANGE?
Well...You've got it.
Michigan, the Great Liberal Basket Case, is leading the way.
As goes DETROIT, so goes Obama Nation.
Aren't you IDIOTS bulldozing your towns down?
This is UNCHECKED LIBERALISM.
This is Obama SOCIALISM.
" Ha, I heard Rush Limbaugh making the same claim as goomygoomy, good to know that his logic was on-par with a forum troll's.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339365</id>
	<title>Re:Michitucky?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245098220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Picass0, I disagree, based on years of observation of the gravel road outside my parent's house.</p><p>1. The road maintainer came through as needed to plow snow off the road. Snow blowers work just fine as do blades.</p><p>2. If you drive fast, yes, your car's wheel wells will get dinged with gravel. Most of us are not so sensitive about a car's wheel wells. Some tire brands don't last on gravel, but a little checking around on the Internet and with people who drive on gravel will answer that question.</p><p>3. They do get dusty but that's more an annoyance to those living by the road than to drivers. If the road carries 30-50 cars per day, there probably isn't anybody to tailgate. Rural driving etiquette is to leave 1/4 mile between you and another vehicle if you are travelling at approximately the same speed. Translated for urban drivers: your usual following distance of 1/2 a car length is absolutely claustrophobic to a rural driver.</p><p>4. It's obvious that you're on a road with a loose surface. Drive slower and be careful. It would be interesting to know whether a ground-up asphalt road has significantly different traction than an actual gravel road. I'd suspect that it would and it might actually be a lot more dangerous than a plain ol' limestone gravel road.</p><p>5. Really can't comment on the Amish drivers comment. I'm feeling really fortunate that my job and industry are still secure and my state's economy is stable compared to Michigan's.</p><p>Bigger issues: Asphalt contains petroleum. I wonder what grinding up the road and leaving the binder and aggregate exposed to weather will do to the environment, particularly soil and water quality.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Picass0 , I disagree , based on years of observation of the gravel road outside my parent 's house.1 .
The road maintainer came through as needed to plow snow off the road .
Snow blowers work just fine as do blades.2 .
If you drive fast , yes , your car 's wheel wells will get dinged with gravel .
Most of us are not so sensitive about a car 's wheel wells .
Some tire brands do n't last on gravel , but a little checking around on the Internet and with people who drive on gravel will answer that question.3 .
They do get dusty but that 's more an annoyance to those living by the road than to drivers .
If the road carries 30-50 cars per day , there probably is n't anybody to tailgate .
Rural driving etiquette is to leave 1/4 mile between you and another vehicle if you are travelling at approximately the same speed .
Translated for urban drivers : your usual following distance of 1/2 a car length is absolutely claustrophobic to a rural driver.4 .
It 's obvious that you 're on a road with a loose surface .
Drive slower and be careful .
It would be interesting to know whether a ground-up asphalt road has significantly different traction than an actual gravel road .
I 'd suspect that it would and it might actually be a lot more dangerous than a plain ol ' limestone gravel road.5 .
Really ca n't comment on the Amish drivers comment .
I 'm feeling really fortunate that my job and industry are still secure and my state 's economy is stable compared to Michigan 's.Bigger issues : Asphalt contains petroleum .
I wonder what grinding up the road and leaving the binder and aggregate exposed to weather will do to the environment , particularly soil and water quality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Picass0, I disagree, based on years of observation of the gravel road outside my parent's house.1.
The road maintainer came through as needed to plow snow off the road.
Snow blowers work just fine as do blades.2.
If you drive fast, yes, your car's wheel wells will get dinged with gravel.
Most of us are not so sensitive about a car's wheel wells.
Some tire brands don't last on gravel, but a little checking around on the Internet and with people who drive on gravel will answer that question.3.
They do get dusty but that's more an annoyance to those living by the road than to drivers.
If the road carries 30-50 cars per day, there probably isn't anybody to tailgate.
Rural driving etiquette is to leave 1/4 mile between you and another vehicle if you are travelling at approximately the same speed.
Translated for urban drivers: your usual following distance of 1/2 a car length is absolutely claustrophobic to a rural driver.4.
It's obvious that you're on a road with a loose surface.
Drive slower and be careful.
It would be interesting to know whether a ground-up asphalt road has significantly different traction than an actual gravel road.
I'd suspect that it would and it might actually be a lot more dangerous than a plain ol' limestone gravel road.5.
Really can't comment on the Amish drivers comment.
I'm feeling really fortunate that my job and industry are still secure and my state's economy is stable compared to Michigan's.Bigger issues: Asphalt contains petroleum.
I wonder what grinding up the road and leaving the binder and aggregate exposed to weather will do to the environment, particularly soil and water quality.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338705</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28346989</id>
	<title>Need to sell it better.</title>
	<author>Demonantis</author>
	<datestamp>1245163920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The gravel will force motorists to reduce there speed this would be very beneficial on roads that shouldn't see a lot of traffic. Rural roads with schools on them just don't need the traffic and the children will be safer. If they really think about this and implement it properly. I don't think this should be argued as a cost thing more as a traffic control thing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The gravel will force motorists to reduce there speed this would be very beneficial on roads that should n't see a lot of traffic .
Rural roads with schools on them just do n't need the traffic and the children will be safer .
If they really think about this and implement it properly .
I do n't think this should be argued as a cost thing more as a traffic control thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The gravel will force motorists to reduce there speed this would be very beneficial on roads that shouldn't see a lot of traffic.
Rural roads with schools on them just don't need the traffic and the children will be safer.
If they really think about this and implement it properly.
I don't think this should be argued as a cost thing more as a traffic control thing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338647</id>
	<title>Unintended consequences</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245095940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Property on a gravel road is worth less than property on a paved road. So, by their actions, the government has reduced the value of a landowner's property. Usually this triggers a lawsuit - which, if successful, could easily wipe out any savings.

Also, since the properties on the road are worth less, they will be able to collect less tax revenue.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Property on a gravel road is worth less than property on a paved road .
So , by their actions , the government has reduced the value of a landowner 's property .
Usually this triggers a lawsuit - which , if successful , could easily wipe out any savings .
Also , since the properties on the road are worth less , they will be able to collect less tax revenue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Property on a gravel road is worth less than property on a paved road.
So, by their actions, the government has reduced the value of a landowner's property.
Usually this triggers a lawsuit - which, if successful, could easily wipe out any savings.
Also, since the properties on the road are worth less, they will be able to collect less tax revenue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339019</id>
	<title>Socialized roads = fail</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245097140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When the government provides food, million starve. When it provides roads, well...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When the government provides food , million starve .
When it provides roads , well.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When the government provides food, million starve.
When it provides roads, well...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339389</id>
	<title>Re:Why aren't more roads concrete?</title>
	<author>dr\_db</author>
	<datestamp>1245098340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Posting from a place that gets cold... The expansion cracks get ridiculous in the winter, hammers like a flat tire.  And they seemed to need lots of maintenance, if my experiences in Winnipeg were any indicator.  Where I am now they will put down a concrete pad where trucks stop and rut up the road, like at lights, but the rest is asphalt.  The asphalt cracks about every 14 feet after a couple years from the cold/hot cycle.</p><p>Also, watermains tend to be run under roads as well, and it's much easier and quicker to patch a cut when they make a repair when the road is asphalt.  The curing time to full strength isn't measured in days.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Posting from a place that gets cold... The expansion cracks get ridiculous in the winter , hammers like a flat tire .
And they seemed to need lots of maintenance , if my experiences in Winnipeg were any indicator .
Where I am now they will put down a concrete pad where trucks stop and rut up the road , like at lights , but the rest is asphalt .
The asphalt cracks about every 14 feet after a couple years from the cold/hot cycle.Also , watermains tend to be run under roads as well , and it 's much easier and quicker to patch a cut when they make a repair when the road is asphalt .
The curing time to full strength is n't measured in days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Posting from a place that gets cold... The expansion cracks get ridiculous in the winter, hammers like a flat tire.
And they seemed to need lots of maintenance, if my experiences in Winnipeg were any indicator.
Where I am now they will put down a concrete pad where trucks stop and rut up the road, like at lights, but the rest is asphalt.
The asphalt cracks about every 14 feet after a couple years from the cold/hot cycle.Also, watermains tend to be run under roads as well, and it's much easier and quicker to patch a cut when they make a repair when the road is asphalt.
The curing time to full strength isn't measured in days.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339467</id>
	<title>Gravel Damage</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1245098760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So who is going to pay for the long term damage the gravel will cause to my car?  The city is responsible for damage caused by chuckholes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So who is going to pay for the long term damage the gravel will cause to my car ?
The city is responsible for damage caused by chuckholes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So who is going to pay for the long term damage the gravel will cause to my car?
The city is responsible for damage caused by chuckholes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343065</id>
	<title>Re:Flying Car Argument</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245075240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i gotta tell you, i would love to see the landscape principals a flying-car suburban development would make. I guess maintenance vehicles would still need ground support but not to every part of the community. Probably, pretty beautiful!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i got ta tell you , i would love to see the landscape principals a flying-car suburban development would make .
I guess maintenance vehicles would still need ground support but not to every part of the community .
Probably , pretty beautiful !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i gotta tell you, i would love to see the landscape principals a flying-car suburban development would make.
I guess maintenance vehicles would still need ground support but not to every part of the community.
Probably, pretty beautiful!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338513</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338989</id>
	<title>natural process</title>
	<author>Tim4444</author>
	<datestamp>1245097020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>don't fight the entropy, use it<br>
<br>
besides, the rise in cracked windshields will stimulate the local economy</htmltext>
<tokenext>do n't fight the entropy , use it besides , the rise in cracked windshields will stimulate the local economy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>don't fight the entropy, use it

besides, the rise in cracked windshields will stimulate the local economy</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339865</id>
	<title>Re:Unintended consequences</title>
	<author>Tiro</author>
	<datestamp>1245057060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Link? Citation? When has someone won a case like this?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Link ?
Citation ? When has someone won a case like this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Link?
Citation? When has someone won a case like this?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338647</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340159</id>
	<title>Sounds just like over here ...</title>
	<author>vrt3</author>
	<datestamp>1245058140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Roads here in Belgium are largely in bad shape too. Maintenance is eternally in catch-up.</p><p>(I remember a holiday with my parents some 20-25 years ago to what was then Yugoslavia, which had a reputation of being a much poorer country than Belgium. Indeed, it struck us that almost all crash barriers were rusty. Skip 20-25 years; now almost all crash barriers in Belgium are rusty too... Also it used to be the case that, on return from France to Belgium, one could easily notice the location of the border by the improvement in road quality; nowadays it is the other way around)</p><p>I don't know whether the problem is corruption or just because of the fact that government has to buy from the lowest bidder. In any case roads deteriorate faster than they should, I guess because the foundations are not as good or deep as they should be.</p><p>It always amuses me when I drive to the Netherlands and I see signs "attention: bad road surface ahead". Those bad roads are often better than anything we have over here (with only a bit of hyperbole).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Roads here in Belgium are largely in bad shape too .
Maintenance is eternally in catch-up .
( I remember a holiday with my parents some 20-25 years ago to what was then Yugoslavia , which had a reputation of being a much poorer country than Belgium .
Indeed , it struck us that almost all crash barriers were rusty .
Skip 20-25 years ; now almost all crash barriers in Belgium are rusty too... Also it used to be the case that , on return from France to Belgium , one could easily notice the location of the border by the improvement in road quality ; nowadays it is the other way around ) I do n't know whether the problem is corruption or just because of the fact that government has to buy from the lowest bidder .
In any case roads deteriorate faster than they should , I guess because the foundations are not as good or deep as they should be.It always amuses me when I drive to the Netherlands and I see signs " attention : bad road surface ahead " .
Those bad roads are often better than anything we have over here ( with only a bit of hyperbole ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Roads here in Belgium are largely in bad shape too.
Maintenance is eternally in catch-up.
(I remember a holiday with my parents some 20-25 years ago to what was then Yugoslavia, which had a reputation of being a much poorer country than Belgium.
Indeed, it struck us that almost all crash barriers were rusty.
Skip 20-25 years; now almost all crash barriers in Belgium are rusty too... Also it used to be the case that, on return from France to Belgium, one could easily notice the location of the border by the improvement in road quality; nowadays it is the other way around)I don't know whether the problem is corruption or just because of the fact that government has to buy from the lowest bidder.
In any case roads deteriorate faster than they should, I guess because the foundations are not as good or deep as they should be.It always amuses me when I drive to the Netherlands and I see signs "attention: bad road surface ahead".
Those bad roads are often better than anything we have over here (with only a bit of hyperbole).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28350005</id>
	<title>Re:Penny wise and pound foolish.</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1245176460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"road engineer" heh.</p><p>How about he take into account there are hardly eny peopel using these roads. If the roads were heavily used, they wouldn't need to do this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" road engineer " heh.How about he take into account there are hardly eny peopel using these roads .
If the roads were heavily used , they would n't need to do this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"road engineer" heh.How about he take into account there are hardly eny peopel using these roads.
If the roads were heavily used, they wouldn't need to do this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339059</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28352037</id>
	<title>Warped sense of priorities</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245183780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What sort of priorities does the US have ? The country also has 58\% of the entire world's military budget. Why not divert a little of that into useful stuff ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What sort of priorities does the US have ?
The country also has 58 \ % of the entire world 's military budget .
Why not divert a little of that into useful stuff ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What sort of priorities does the US have ?
The country also has 58\% of the entire world's military budget.
Why not divert a little of that into useful stuff ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339693</id>
	<title>Re:Penny wise and pound foolish.</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1245056400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is true for most roads, but not all.  If the usage is light enough gravel is cheaper.  Since we are talking about 50  of the more 250,000 of miles of road in Michigan It is quite possible that the change back to gravel is cost-effective in the long term as well as the short.  Also, a little research reveals that at least some of these roads were never actually paved at all but merely sealed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is true for most roads , but not all .
If the usage is light enough gravel is cheaper .
Since we are talking about 50 of the more 250,000 of miles of road in Michigan It is quite possible that the change back to gravel is cost-effective in the long term as well as the short .
Also , a little research reveals that at least some of these roads were never actually paved at all but merely sealed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is true for most roads, but not all.
If the usage is light enough gravel is cheaper.
Since we are talking about 50  of the more 250,000 of miles of road in Michigan It is quite possible that the change back to gravel is cost-effective in the long term as well as the short.
Also, a little research reveals that at least some of these roads were never actually paved at all but merely sealed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339059</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338743</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245096240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its just a market that dosnt work, to few companies construct and maintains roads, the result is ridiculous pricing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its just a market that dosnt work , to few companies construct and maintains roads , the result is ridiculous pricing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its just a market that dosnt work, to few companies construct and maintains roads, the result is ridiculous pricing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339131</id>
	<title>Re:Extremely Sensible</title>
	<author>c</author>
	<datestamp>1245097500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; that does not have a major quality of life impact</p><p>Depending on how dry things get, high-traffic gavel roads can spew amazing amounts of dust on nearby residents. Like, "can't hang clothes out to dry" amounts. Dust suppression becomes necessary, and unfortunately most forms of dust suppression can be pretty nasty.</p><p>They're also a lot noisier and people living on gravel roads see about 20-30\% more wear on vehicle suspensions.</p><p>c.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; that does not have a major quality of life impactDepending on how dry things get , high-traffic gavel roads can spew amazing amounts of dust on nearby residents .
Like , " ca n't hang clothes out to dry " amounts .
Dust suppression becomes necessary , and unfortunately most forms of dust suppression can be pretty nasty.They 're also a lot noisier and people living on gravel roads see about 20-30 \ % more wear on vehicle suspensions.c .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; that does not have a major quality of life impactDepending on how dry things get, high-traffic gavel roads can spew amazing amounts of dust on nearby residents.
Like, "can't hang clothes out to dry" amounts.
Dust suppression becomes necessary, and unfortunately most forms of dust suppression can be pretty nasty.They're also a lot noisier and people living on gravel roads see about 20-30\% more wear on vehicle suspensions.c.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28349959</id>
	<title>Re:Unintended consequences</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1245176340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You, and many here, are missing the big point. There are very few people suing these roads becasue many places in Michigan are becoming a ghost towns.<br>Many of those properties aren't worst anything anyways. Seriously, there are places where a house is cheaper then a new car. note even an expensive car. Neighborhoods where 90\% of the homes are abandoned.<br>Michigan has a couple of things going against it:<br>1) They haven't been able to get away from being a 1 industry towwn<br>2) It is in Michigan.</p><p>They need new industry, and the only way they ahve a chance to do that is to create an extremely low business tax for business located and active in the state.</p><p>If they don't get industry, then they need to create a law that makes the banks owning these abandoned properties must maintain them. If they don't want to do that, then they can turn the land over to the state in exchange for bulldozing and removing the debris of the home.<br>return those lots to a more natural state. At least the property of the people who still live there won't be devalued by being surrounding by abandoned homes. Perhaps even becomes a quite open suburb for the retired.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You , and many here , are missing the big point .
There are very few people suing these roads becasue many places in Michigan are becoming a ghost towns.Many of those properties are n't worst anything anyways .
Seriously , there are places where a house is cheaper then a new car .
note even an expensive car .
Neighborhoods where 90 \ % of the homes are abandoned.Michigan has a couple of things going against it : 1 ) They have n't been able to get away from being a 1 industry towwn2 ) It is in Michigan.They need new industry , and the only way they ahve a chance to do that is to create an extremely low business tax for business located and active in the state.If they do n't get industry , then they need to create a law that makes the banks owning these abandoned properties must maintain them .
If they do n't want to do that , then they can turn the land over to the state in exchange for bulldozing and removing the debris of the home.return those lots to a more natural state .
At least the property of the people who still live there wo n't be devalued by being surrounding by abandoned homes .
Perhaps even becomes a quite open suburb for the retired .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You, and many here, are missing the big point.
There are very few people suing these roads becasue many places in Michigan are becoming a ghost towns.Many of those properties aren't worst anything anyways.
Seriously, there are places where a house is cheaper then a new car.
note even an expensive car.
Neighborhoods where 90\% of the homes are abandoned.Michigan has a couple of things going against it:1) They haven't been able to get away from being a 1 industry towwn2) It is in Michigan.They need new industry, and the only way they ahve a chance to do that is to create an extremely low business tax for business located and active in the state.If they don't get industry, then they need to create a law that makes the banks owning these abandoned properties must maintain them.
If they don't want to do that, then they can turn the land over to the state in exchange for bulldozing and removing the debris of the home.return those lots to a more natural state.
At least the property of the people who still live there won't be devalued by being surrounding by abandoned homes.
Perhaps even becomes a quite open suburb for the retired.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338647</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340637</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Eil</author>
	<datestamp>1245059940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.</p></div></blockquote><p>Actually it's a monumentally bad idea. Also, there really aren't that many "gravel roads" in Michigan. Oh sure, they might start out as gravel, but unless you're dumping new gravel on them every year, they turn into "dirt roads" so that's what we call them here.</p><p>In the winter, a paved road can be plowed perfectly clear whilst a dirt road cannot. You need to spread a lot more salt (or more commonly, sand) to keep a dirt road safe in the winter. To keep a dirt road in acceptable condition, you also have to have it grated at least once a year, something that costs money and is therefore never done. Rain and melting snow destroy dirt roads through erosion and the creation of ripples and potholes. Cars have a short life expectancy in Michigan already, but dirt roads only accelerate their deterioration through vibration, dust, mud, and flying rocks.</p><p>Michigan weather does do nasty things to roads, but I've been in plenty of other states (and even Canada) with similar weather and the local governments have zero problem keeping roads properly maintained. For being the automotive capital of the world, Michigan has always been completely bass-ackwards when it comes to cars and roads. One of the main reasons I'm looking to move out soon.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway , this probably is not a bad idea.Actually it 's a monumentally bad idea .
Also , there really are n't that many " gravel roads " in Michigan .
Oh sure , they might start out as gravel , but unless you 're dumping new gravel on them every year , they turn into " dirt roads " so that 's what we call them here.In the winter , a paved road can be plowed perfectly clear whilst a dirt road can not .
You need to spread a lot more salt ( or more commonly , sand ) to keep a dirt road safe in the winter .
To keep a dirt road in acceptable condition , you also have to have it grated at least once a year , something that costs money and is therefore never done .
Rain and melting snow destroy dirt roads through erosion and the creation of ripples and potholes .
Cars have a short life expectancy in Michigan already , but dirt roads only accelerate their deterioration through vibration , dust , mud , and flying rocks.Michigan weather does do nasty things to roads , but I 've been in plenty of other states ( and even Canada ) with similar weather and the local governments have zero problem keeping roads properly maintained .
For being the automotive capital of the world , Michigan has always been completely bass-ackwards when it comes to cars and roads .
One of the main reasons I 'm looking to move out soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.Actually it's a monumentally bad idea.
Also, there really aren't that many "gravel roads" in Michigan.
Oh sure, they might start out as gravel, but unless you're dumping new gravel on them every year, they turn into "dirt roads" so that's what we call them here.In the winter, a paved road can be plowed perfectly clear whilst a dirt road cannot.
You need to spread a lot more salt (or more commonly, sand) to keep a dirt road safe in the winter.
To keep a dirt road in acceptable condition, you also have to have it grated at least once a year, something that costs money and is therefore never done.
Rain and melting snow destroy dirt roads through erosion and the creation of ripples and potholes.
Cars have a short life expectancy in Michigan already, but dirt roads only accelerate their deterioration through vibration, dust, mud, and flying rocks.Michigan weather does do nasty things to roads, but I've been in plenty of other states (and even Canada) with similar weather and the local governments have zero problem keeping roads properly maintained.
For being the automotive capital of the world, Michigan has always been completely bass-ackwards when it comes to cars and roads.
One of the main reasons I'm looking to move out soon.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339247</id>
	<title>Re:Unintended consequences</title>
	<author>Malenx</author>
	<datestamp>1245097800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1.  You can't sue a state for modifying roads.  If the state is in financial turmoil, there's no way you'd win the lawsuit.</p><p>2.  The tax revenue stays the same value for some time before shifting down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
You ca n't sue a state for modifying roads .
If the state is in financial turmoil , there 's no way you 'd win the lawsuit.2 .
The tax revenue stays the same value for some time before shifting down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
You can't sue a state for modifying roads.
If the state is in financial turmoil, there's no way you'd win the lawsuit.2.
The tax revenue stays the same value for some time before shifting down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338647</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340785</id>
	<title>Motorcyclists Screwed</title>
	<author>altek</author>
	<datestamp>1245060540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So maybe everyone in rural Michigan drives a truck, and therefore it's a non-issue.  But if more and more places start doing this, it really has an effect on people who have given up cars and taken to more environmentally-friendly motorcycles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So maybe everyone in rural Michigan drives a truck , and therefore it 's a non-issue .
But if more and more places start doing this , it really has an effect on people who have given up cars and taken to more environmentally-friendly motorcycles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So maybe everyone in rural Michigan drives a truck, and therefore it's a non-issue.
But if more and more places start doing this, it really has an effect on people who have given up cars and taken to more environmentally-friendly motorcycles.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338845</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>kaplong!</author>
	<datestamp>1245096660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yep - you could see that when they redid I-88 near Chicago: they only put maybe a foot of gravel instead of the three needed to get drainage below frost level - this guarantees frost damage and the next rebuilding contract.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep - you could see that when they redid I-88 near Chicago : they only put maybe a foot of gravel instead of the three needed to get drainage below frost level - this guarantees frost damage and the next rebuilding contract .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep - you could see that when they redid I-88 near Chicago: they only put maybe a foot of gravel instead of the three needed to get drainage below frost level - this guarantees frost damage and the next rebuilding contract.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28350807</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245179040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.  The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).  Plus, the freeze-thaw cycle means they'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless, and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel. </p><p>I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.</p></div><p>It's a bit of a stretch to describe Michigan as a "relatively small state" given that it's the 11th largest by area and 8th largest by population.  However, gravel roads are a great solution for essentially unpopulated states like Montana, where the vast distances and low population density render road usage too light to justify the expense of pavement in most cases.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway , this probably is not a bad idea .
The distances are such that the lower speed limit required is n't going to mean it takes days to get across the state ( like it would in , say , Montana ) .
Plus , the freeze-thaw cycle means they 'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless , and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel .
I certainly would n't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though , where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.It 's a bit of a stretch to describe Michigan as a " relatively small state " given that it 's the 11th largest by area and 8th largest by population .
However , gravel roads are a great solution for essentially unpopulated states like Montana , where the vast distances and low population density render road usage too light to justify the expense of pavement in most cases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.
The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).
Plus, the freeze-thaw cycle means they'd be dealing with massive potholes every season regardless, and potholes are cheaper and easier to fix on gravel.
I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.It's a bit of a stretch to describe Michigan as a "relatively small state" given that it's the 11th largest by area and 8th largest by population.
However, gravel roads are a great solution for essentially unpopulated states like Montana, where the vast distances and low population density render road usage too light to justify the expense of pavement in most cases.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338337</id>
	<title>financially sound</title>
	<author>YayaY</author>
	<datestamp>1245094860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a sound politic. Gravel road cost less $ a year because they are much easier to repair! And they do not have many inconvenient unless there is heavy traffic on the road.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a sound politic .
Gravel road cost less $ a year because they are much easier to repair !
And they do not have many inconvenient unless there is heavy traffic on the road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a sound politic.
Gravel road cost less $ a year because they are much easier to repair!
And they do not have many inconvenient unless there is heavy traffic on the road.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338513</id>
	<title>Flying Car Argument</title>
	<author>jameskojiro</author>
	<datestamp>1245095520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is why we need flying cars, if we all had flying cars we could save trillions on not having to pave roads and not having to maintain gravel roads.     We could let roads go back to nature.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is why we need flying cars , if we all had flying cars we could save trillions on not having to pave roads and not having to maintain gravel roads .
We could let roads go back to nature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is why we need flying cars, if we all had flying cars we could save trillions on not having to pave roads and not having to maintain gravel roads.
We could let roads go back to nature.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338707</id>
	<title>Why aren't more roads concrete?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245096120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just don't understand why more roads weren't (and aren't now) made from concrete, rather than asphalt. There are very busily travelled concrete roadways near where I live, that are over a 100 years old, are subjected to salt, heavy trucking, and all sorts of abuse - yet require almost no maintenance.</p><p>In comparison, the newer asphalt sections of those same roads just seem to fall apart within a few years of being refurbished. For a few dollars more in the beginning, a centuries worth of maintenance $s can be avoided. Seems short sighted to me...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just do n't understand why more roads were n't ( and are n't now ) made from concrete , rather than asphalt .
There are very busily travelled concrete roadways near where I live , that are over a 100 years old , are subjected to salt , heavy trucking , and all sorts of abuse - yet require almost no maintenance.In comparison , the newer asphalt sections of those same roads just seem to fall apart within a few years of being refurbished .
For a few dollars more in the beginning , a centuries worth of maintenance $ s can be avoided .
Seems short sighted to me.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just don't understand why more roads weren't (and aren't now) made from concrete, rather than asphalt.
There are very busily travelled concrete roadways near where I live, that are over a 100 years old, are subjected to salt, heavy trucking, and all sorts of abuse - yet require almost no maintenance.In comparison, the newer asphalt sections of those same roads just seem to fall apart within a few years of being refurbished.
For a few dollars more in the beginning, a centuries worth of maintenance $s can be avoided.
Seems short sighted to me...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339347</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>cats-paw</author>
	<datestamp>1245098160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>5280 ft * 22 ft wide = 116200 ft^2</p><p>So that's  $1.00 per square foot to pave a road with an OIL based substance which has to withstand repeated use by vehicles of around 1 1/2 to 20 tons on a regular basis for YEARS.</p><p>Let's see, is oil more expensive than it used to be, I wonder...</p><p>Think about all the equipment and time that goes into paving a road and moving all of that many tons of asphalt (which is almost certainly being shipped from a long way off, especially in a rural area).</p><p>Yes, there is corruption, but do you really believe it's building the price out by 50\% ? I seriously doubt it.</p><p>Maybe some civil engineer could comment.</p><p>We have too many roads to maintain, that's the problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>5280 ft * 22 ft wide = 116200 ft ^ 2So that 's $ 1.00 per square foot to pave a road with an OIL based substance which has to withstand repeated use by vehicles of around 1 1/2 to 20 tons on a regular basis for YEARS.Let 's see , is oil more expensive than it used to be , I wonder...Think about all the equipment and time that goes into paving a road and moving all of that many tons of asphalt ( which is almost certainly being shipped from a long way off , especially in a rural area ) .Yes , there is corruption , but do you really believe it 's building the price out by 50 \ % ?
I seriously doubt it.Maybe some civil engineer could comment.We have too many roads to maintain , that 's the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>5280 ft * 22 ft wide = 116200 ft^2So that's  $1.00 per square foot to pave a road with an OIL based substance which has to withstand repeated use by vehicles of around 1 1/2 to 20 tons on a regular basis for YEARS.Let's see, is oil more expensive than it used to be, I wonder...Think about all the equipment and time that goes into paving a road and moving all of that many tons of asphalt (which is almost certainly being shipped from a long way off, especially in a rural area).Yes, there is corruption, but do you really believe it's building the price out by 50\% ?
I seriously doubt it.Maybe some civil engineer could comment.We have too many roads to maintain, that's the problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28346787</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>ender9441</author>
	<datestamp>1245162480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Where I live, in Kansas, the trucks average about 50 mph on gravel roads.  I usually drive about 60 mph on the gravel roads in a Mazda 626.  When you grow up driving gravel roads, you learn to compensate and handle differing road conditions.  Fresh gravel is the only thing that causes a major speed reduction.
The worst part is when the road maintainer trenches the ditch and the next rain causes part of the road to slide into the ditch.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where I live , in Kansas , the trucks average about 50 mph on gravel roads .
I usually drive about 60 mph on the gravel roads in a Mazda 626 .
When you grow up driving gravel roads , you learn to compensate and handle differing road conditions .
Fresh gravel is the only thing that causes a major speed reduction .
The worst part is when the road maintainer trenches the ditch and the next rain causes part of the road to slide into the ditch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where I live, in Kansas, the trucks average about 50 mph on gravel roads.
I usually drive about 60 mph on the gravel roads in a Mazda 626.
When you grow up driving gravel roads, you learn to compensate and handle differing road conditions.
Fresh gravel is the only thing that causes a major speed reduction.
The worst part is when the road maintainer trenches the ditch and the next rain causes part of the road to slide into the ditch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339929</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339333</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>mortonda</author>
	<datestamp>1245098100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The end result being that our roads deteriorate much faster than they do in places like Europe, requiring much more frequent repair work for higher prices. </p></div><p>I wonder if that has anything to do with the sharp difference in roads between Kansas and Missouri.   Missouri roads seldom last a year....</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The end result being that our roads deteriorate much faster than they do in places like Europe , requiring much more frequent repair work for higher prices .
I wonder if that has anything to do with the sharp difference in roads between Kansas and Missouri .
Missouri roads seldom last a year... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The end result being that our roads deteriorate much faster than they do in places like Europe, requiring much more frequent repair work for higher prices.
I wonder if that has anything to do with the sharp difference in roads between Kansas and Missouri.
Missouri roads seldom last a year....
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339415</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245098520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>small state?!?, i live in southeast Michigan on a dirt road, went to college at Michigan Tech, a 15 hour drive from my house at highway speeds... further than D.C...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>small state ? !
? , i live in southeast Michigan on a dirt road , went to college at Michigan Tech , a 15 hour drive from my house at highway speeds... further than D.C.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>small state?!
?, i live in southeast Michigan on a dirt road, went to college at Michigan Tech, a 15 hour drive from my house at highway speeds... further than D.C...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340795</id>
	<title>Re:Extremely Sensible</title>
	<author>JStegmaier</author>
	<datestamp>1245060660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>major quality of life impact</p></div><p>Have you ever driven on a gravel road? To visit one of my cousins, I have to drive down about 15 miles of gravel roads. There's nothing particularly wrong with these roads in comparison to other gravel roads (they're not especially badly maintained) but they're horrible to drive on. If you go over 25 mph, you're likely to end up in the ditch. And that's on the straight-aways. Going up and down hills and around curves drives the speed even lower. A trip that should take 15 to 20 minutes turns in to almost an hour-long ordeal.<br> <br>I lived in the country until I graduated high school (my parents still live there.) All of our roads were paved with shale, which is a hell of a lot better than gravel in every way (other than maintenance, since I don't have any idea of the maintenance needs for shale roads.) You don't have the thrown-up rocks of gravel, and you can easily drive the speed limit of 55 without any danger, assuming no other hazards. Are the costs of shale so much higher than gravel that it's worth the horrible driving conditions? Or does the use of shale depend on the area you're in (I'm originally from northwest/north central Kansas.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>major quality of life impactHave you ever driven on a gravel road ?
To visit one of my cousins , I have to drive down about 15 miles of gravel roads .
There 's nothing particularly wrong with these roads in comparison to other gravel roads ( they 're not especially badly maintained ) but they 're horrible to drive on .
If you go over 25 mph , you 're likely to end up in the ditch .
And that 's on the straight-aways .
Going up and down hills and around curves drives the speed even lower .
A trip that should take 15 to 20 minutes turns in to almost an hour-long ordeal .
I lived in the country until I graduated high school ( my parents still live there .
) All of our roads were paved with shale , which is a hell of a lot better than gravel in every way ( other than maintenance , since I do n't have any idea of the maintenance needs for shale roads .
) You do n't have the thrown-up rocks of gravel , and you can easily drive the speed limit of 55 without any danger , assuming no other hazards .
Are the costs of shale so much higher than gravel that it 's worth the horrible driving conditions ?
Or does the use of shale depend on the area you 're in ( I 'm originally from northwest/north central Kansas .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>major quality of life impactHave you ever driven on a gravel road?
To visit one of my cousins, I have to drive down about 15 miles of gravel roads.
There's nothing particularly wrong with these roads in comparison to other gravel roads (they're not especially badly maintained) but they're horrible to drive on.
If you go over 25 mph, you're likely to end up in the ditch.
And that's on the straight-aways.
Going up and down hills and around curves drives the speed even lower.
A trip that should take 15 to 20 minutes turns in to almost an hour-long ordeal.
I lived in the country until I graduated high school (my parents still live there.
) All of our roads were paved with shale, which is a hell of a lot better than gravel in every way (other than maintenance, since I don't have any idea of the maintenance needs for shale roads.
) You don't have the thrown-up rocks of gravel, and you can easily drive the speed limit of 55 without any danger, assuming no other hazards.
Are the costs of shale so much higher than gravel that it's worth the horrible driving conditions?
Or does the use of shale depend on the area you're in (I'm originally from northwest/north central Kansas.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338407</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338947</id>
	<title>Re:Not the only cost...</title>
	<author>fermion</author>
	<datestamp>1245096840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The number of drivers may be the issue.  I used to drive about quite a bit in rural roads.  It seemed to happen quite sequentially.  The land went from 100+ acre farms to 5-20 acre lots.  The dirt roads became gravel.  The land went from 5-20 acre lots to suburban cookie cutter.  The gravel roads were laid with asphalt. If the trend continued the roads would be paved.  I used to drive down down a road that paved to the town, then asphalt to the main cut off, then gravel, until the last mile, which was dirt.
<p>
There does seem to some method in the madness.  If the number of drivers decrease significantly, then maybe all that is needed is gravel? If the taxes from the people driving the road don't account for a significant portion of the construction and maintenance, then the road should go away.  I have even heard of cities reforming themselves around healthy cores and tearing down the excess.  Painful, but if no wants to live there, what else can be done.
</p><p>
What is really screwed up in when a city build tens of miles of 6-10 lane highway that no body uses, in the middle of nowhere, just to connect sprawlingly developments that are no under foreclosure pressure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The number of drivers may be the issue .
I used to drive about quite a bit in rural roads .
It seemed to happen quite sequentially .
The land went from 100 + acre farms to 5-20 acre lots .
The dirt roads became gravel .
The land went from 5-20 acre lots to suburban cookie cutter .
The gravel roads were laid with asphalt .
If the trend continued the roads would be paved .
I used to drive down down a road that paved to the town , then asphalt to the main cut off , then gravel , until the last mile , which was dirt .
There does seem to some method in the madness .
If the number of drivers decrease significantly , then maybe all that is needed is gravel ?
If the taxes from the people driving the road do n't account for a significant portion of the construction and maintenance , then the road should go away .
I have even heard of cities reforming themselves around healthy cores and tearing down the excess .
Painful , but if no wants to live there , what else can be done .
What is really screwed up in when a city build tens of miles of 6-10 lane highway that no body uses , in the middle of nowhere , just to connect sprawlingly developments that are no under foreclosure pressure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The number of drivers may be the issue.
I used to drive about quite a bit in rural roads.
It seemed to happen quite sequentially.
The land went from 100+ acre farms to 5-20 acre lots.
The dirt roads became gravel.
The land went from 5-20 acre lots to suburban cookie cutter.
The gravel roads were laid with asphalt.
If the trend continued the roads would be paved.
I used to drive down down a road that paved to the town, then asphalt to the main cut off, then gravel, until the last mile, which was dirt.
There does seem to some method in the madness.
If the number of drivers decrease significantly, then maybe all that is needed is gravel?
If the taxes from the people driving the road don't account for a significant portion of the construction and maintenance, then the road should go away.
I have even heard of cities reforming themselves around healthy cores and tearing down the excess.
Painful, but if no wants to live there, what else can be done.
What is really screwed up in when a city build tens of miles of 6-10 lane highway that no body uses, in the middle of nowhere, just to connect sprawlingly developments that are no under foreclosure pressure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28393553</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>bleckywelcky</author>
	<datestamp>1245441300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, the worse the gravel road, the faster I go. It smooths out all the bumps. Once you hit 80 mph on a dirt road it feels like a freshly paved highway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , the worse the gravel road , the faster I go .
It smooths out all the bumps .
Once you hit 80 mph on a dirt road it feels like a freshly paved highway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, the worse the gravel road, the faster I go.
It smooths out all the bumps.
Once you hit 80 mph on a dirt road it feels like a freshly paved highway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339929</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340579</id>
	<title>Re:Michigan is fucked</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245059760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't forget that you now need to have a passport to travel there. Seeing as how it's a different "country" and all.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget that you now need to have a passport to travel there .
Seeing as how it 's a different " country " and all .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget that you now need to have a passport to travel there.
Seeing as how it's a different "country" and all.
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338311</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343377</id>
	<title>Time for  Contest</title>
	<author>DavidD\_CA</author>
	<datestamp>1245077940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems to me that it's time for another contest.</p><p>When DARPA wanted to figure out how to make vehicles more autonomous, they held a nice contest that netted them some very cool technology and other ideas at the cost of about $10 M.</p><p>Same thing with the X-Prize to find a cheap want to make into space and back.</p><p>Now we need a contest to figure how how to create a surface for driving smoothly, that won't deteriorate, will stand up to heat and cold, and is cheap.</p><p>And if we offer $10 M to the winner, it sounds to me like this could be giant savings.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems to me that it 's time for another contest.When DARPA wanted to figure out how to make vehicles more autonomous , they held a nice contest that netted them some very cool technology and other ideas at the cost of about $ 10 M.Same thing with the X-Prize to find a cheap want to make into space and back.Now we need a contest to figure how how to create a surface for driving smoothly , that wo n't deteriorate , will stand up to heat and cold , and is cheap.And if we offer $ 10 M to the winner , it sounds to me like this could be giant savings .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems to me that it's time for another contest.When DARPA wanted to figure out how to make vehicles more autonomous, they held a nice contest that netted them some very cool technology and other ideas at the cost of about $10 M.Same thing with the X-Prize to find a cheap want to make into space and back.Now we need a contest to figure how how to create a surface for driving smoothly, that won't deteriorate, will stand up to heat and cold, and is cheap.And if we offer $10 M to the winner, it sounds to me like this could be giant savings.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343593</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>quacking duck</author>
	<datestamp>1245080040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Michigan weather does do nasty things to roads, but I've been in plenty of other states (and even Canada) with similar weather and the local governments have zero problem keeping roads properly maintained. For being the automotive capital of the world, Michigan has always been completely bass-ackwards when it comes to cars and roads. One of the main reasons I'm looking to move out soon.</p></div><p>I've only heard of the legendary poor condition of Michigan roads--from a friend who lived in part of Quebec where potholes are already horrendous.</p><p>I figured the massive potholes in Michigan are left there deliberately to a) wear down regular cars faster so residents have to buy new cars sooner than should be necessary, and/or b) drive up sales of expensive trucks and SUVs.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Michigan weather does do nasty things to roads , but I 've been in plenty of other states ( and even Canada ) with similar weather and the local governments have zero problem keeping roads properly maintained .
For being the automotive capital of the world , Michigan has always been completely bass-ackwards when it comes to cars and roads .
One of the main reasons I 'm looking to move out soon.I 've only heard of the legendary poor condition of Michigan roads--from a friend who lived in part of Quebec where potholes are already horrendous.I figured the massive potholes in Michigan are left there deliberately to a ) wear down regular cars faster so residents have to buy new cars sooner than should be necessary , and/or b ) drive up sales of expensive trucks and SUVs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Michigan weather does do nasty things to roads, but I've been in plenty of other states (and even Canada) with similar weather and the local governments have zero problem keeping roads properly maintained.
For being the automotive capital of the world, Michigan has always been completely bass-ackwards when it comes to cars and roads.
One of the main reasons I'm looking to move out soon.I've only heard of the legendary poor condition of Michigan roads--from a friend who lived in part of Quebec where potholes are already horrendous.I figured the massive potholes in Michigan are left there deliberately to a) wear down regular cars faster so residents have to buy new cars sooner than should be necessary, and/or b) drive up sales of expensive trucks and SUVs.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340637</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339421</id>
	<title>tinfoil hats and tanks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245098520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A tracked vehicle tears up a paved road.  You'd hardly see the wear on a gravel road.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A tracked vehicle tears up a paved road .
You 'd hardly see the wear on a gravel road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A tracked vehicle tears up a paved road.
You'd hardly see the wear on a gravel road.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340219</id>
	<title>not surprising</title>
	<author>hldn</author>
	<datestamp>1245058320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>of everywhere i've driven, michigan has by far the worst roads in the country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>of everywhere i 've driven , michigan has by far the worst roads in the country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>of everywhere i've driven, michigan has by far the worst roads in the country.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28344221</id>
	<title>Re:Michigan is fucked</title>
	<author>PTFD5023</author>
	<datestamp>1245085920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A few years ago I ran EMS in Monroe County. Depending on where the call was, your choices were either (poorly maintained) paved road, gravel road, or dirt road. In some cases, it was actually preferable to go down the gravel or dirt roads... if you weren't 100\% sure on an address, you could just look for the dust clouds from the first responders' vehicles. Some of the "paved" roads actually rode worse than the other roads, it got to the point where if you were trying to start an IV while going down the road, you had to time the bumps in the road with your needle stick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A few years ago I ran EMS in Monroe County .
Depending on where the call was , your choices were either ( poorly maintained ) paved road , gravel road , or dirt road .
In some cases , it was actually preferable to go down the gravel or dirt roads... if you were n't 100 \ % sure on an address , you could just look for the dust clouds from the first responders ' vehicles .
Some of the " paved " roads actually rode worse than the other roads , it got to the point where if you were trying to start an IV while going down the road , you had to time the bumps in the road with your needle stick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A few years ago I ran EMS in Monroe County.
Depending on where the call was, your choices were either (poorly maintained) paved road, gravel road, or dirt road.
In some cases, it was actually preferable to go down the gravel or dirt roads... if you weren't 100\% sure on an address, you could just look for the dust clouds from the first responders' vehicles.
Some of the "paved" roads actually rode worse than the other roads, it got to the point where if you were trying to start an IV while going down the road, you had to time the bumps in the road with your needle stick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338311</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338907</id>
	<title>Re:Not the only cost...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245096780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This has nothing to do with planning or investment- these municipalities are just plain out of money and cannot afford to repave.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This has nothing to do with planning or investment- these municipalities are just plain out of money and can not afford to repave .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has nothing to do with planning or investment- these municipalities are just plain out of money and cannot afford to repave.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342985</id>
	<title>As long...</title>
	<author>drolli</author>
	<datestamp>1245074640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as the gravel roads are used by few cars only this may be an good temporary solution. However i dont believe this is appropriate in a nation spending 600Billion $ for arms (=6 Million Kilometers of good road).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as the gravel roads are used by few cars only this may be an good temporary solution .
However i dont believe this is appropriate in a nation spending 600Billion $ for arms ( = 6 Million Kilometers of good road ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as the gravel roads are used by few cars only this may be an good temporary solution.
However i dont believe this is appropriate in a nation spending 600Billion $ for arms (=6 Million Kilometers of good road).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339287</id>
	<title>Re:Why aren't more roads concrete?</title>
	<author>Forbman</author>
	<datestamp>1245097920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They last about 10x as long as asphalt roads, yes. They get ground down and resurfaced with asphalt anyways.</p><p>If people use chains or studded snow tires on their cars, and it doesn't snow enough, they don't really last all that long. They make for a good base for asphalt, though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They last about 10x as long as asphalt roads , yes .
They get ground down and resurfaced with asphalt anyways.If people use chains or studded snow tires on their cars , and it does n't snow enough , they do n't really last all that long .
They make for a good base for asphalt , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They last about 10x as long as asphalt roads, yes.
They get ground down and resurfaced with asphalt anyways.If people use chains or studded snow tires on their cars, and it doesn't snow enough, they don't really last all that long.
They make for a good base for asphalt, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340363</id>
	<title>Small State?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245058800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.  The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).</p> </div><p>Small State?</p><p>Try the 11th largest state in term of square miles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_U.S.\_states\_and\_territories\_by\_area</p><p>It takes 3 hours at 70 mph to drive width, so while yes it is not as wide as some of the other states we do travel north and south as well we are not confined to travel just east and west.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway , this probably is not a bad idea .
The distances are such that the lower speed limit required is n't going to mean it takes days to get across the state ( like it would in , say , Montana ) .
Small State ? Try the 11th largest state in term of square miles http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List \ _of \ _U.S. \ _states \ _and \ _territories \ _by \ _areaIt takes 3 hours at 70 mph to drive width , so while yes it is not as wide as some of the other states we do travel north and south as well we are not confined to travel just east and west .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a relatively small state like Michigan with nasty freeze-thaw cycles that probably cause massive damage to roads anyway, this probably is not a bad idea.
The distances are such that the lower speed limit required isn't going to mean it takes days to get across the state (like it would in, say, Montana).
Small State?Try the 11th largest state in term of square miles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_U.S.\_states\_and\_territories\_by\_areaIt takes 3 hours at 70 mph to drive width, so while yes it is not as wide as some of the other states we do travel north and south as well we are not confined to travel just east and west.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338749</id>
	<title>Re:Easy to see coming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245096300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unfortunately, taxes are part of the problem in Michigan. Businesses just can't afford to operate under the tax burden there, so they were fleeing the state even before the recession. States have to compete for cash just like everyone else. Just like a vendor can cut prices and make it up in volume, so too can a state lower taxes and make it up in an increase in business. That such drastic cuts are necessary is not just a sign of the times, but also a sign of a state that just refuses to compete.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately , taxes are part of the problem in Michigan .
Businesses just ca n't afford to operate under the tax burden there , so they were fleeing the state even before the recession .
States have to compete for cash just like everyone else .
Just like a vendor can cut prices and make it up in volume , so too can a state lower taxes and make it up in an increase in business .
That such drastic cuts are necessary is not just a sign of the times , but also a sign of a state that just refuses to compete .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately, taxes are part of the problem in Michigan.
Businesses just can't afford to operate under the tax burden there, so they were fleeing the state even before the recession.
States have to compete for cash just like everyone else.
Just like a vendor can cut prices and make it up in volume, so too can a state lower taxes and make it up in an increase in business.
That such drastic cuts are necessary is not just a sign of the times, but also a sign of a state that just refuses to compete.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338583</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339261</id>
	<title>Re:Easy to see coming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245097860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; Lazy quoting to follow:</p><p>
&nbsp; Someone quoted someone and also blurbed:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/quote<br>
&nbsp; That's what happens when you continual elect democrats to office.</p><p>Roads go to shit but I'm sure there's no cuts in programs for illegal aliens.</p><p>Quite. Tax revenue is insufficient to pay for essential services - let's blame the Democrats who want to tax everyone to death.</p><p>Hang on...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/endquote</p><p>
&nbsp; I'll simply add another quote: "You ain't seen nothing yet."<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; By his High Progressiveness the High Lord Barack Hussein Obama to a bunch<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; of Hollywood types during some recent get together.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And you kids think we are going to return to the Moon and do all that other 'neat' stuff like Mars. Get ready for a decline that will take your breath away.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>  Lazy quoting to follow :   Someone quoted someone and also blurbed : /quote   That 's what happens when you continual elect democrats to office.Roads go to shit but I 'm sure there 's no cuts in programs for illegal aliens.Quite .
Tax revenue is insufficient to pay for essential services - let 's blame the Democrats who want to tax everyone to death.Hang on... /endquote   I 'll simply add another quote : " You ai n't seen nothing yet .
"                                                                         By his High Progressiveness the High Lord Barack Hussein Obama to a bunch                                                                                       of Hollywood types during some recent get together .
                        And you kids think we are going to return to the Moon and do all that other 'neat ' stuff like Mars .
Get ready for a decline that will take your breath away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
  Lazy quoting to follow:
  Someone quoted someone and also blurbed: /quote
  That's what happens when you continual elect democrats to office.Roads go to shit but I'm sure there's no cuts in programs for illegal aliens.Quite.
Tax revenue is insufficient to pay for essential services - let's blame the Democrats who want to tax everyone to death.Hang on... /endquote
  I'll simply add another quote: "You ain't seen nothing yet.
"
                                                                        By his High Progressiveness the High Lord Barack Hussein Obama to a bunch
                                                                                      of Hollywood types during some recent get together.
                        And you kids think we are going to return to the Moon and do all that other 'neat' stuff like Mars.
Get ready for a decline that will take your breath away.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338583</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28346069</id>
	<title>Roads and the Queen</title>
	<author>rgreenhoe</author>
	<datestamp>1245155340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I grew up where they are doing it to the roads.  The main road Lake Montcalm happens to be the road that I grew up on.  And it has been going down hill for at least 20 years.  Montcalm county is a mainly rural county that has had it one big industrial employer move out a couple of years ago.

The Queen, has done nothing for the economy other than run it into the ground.  It makes me wonder if her next great idea will be to get the US to sell MI to Canada, where she is from.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I grew up where they are doing it to the roads .
The main road Lake Montcalm happens to be the road that I grew up on .
And it has been going down hill for at least 20 years .
Montcalm county is a mainly rural county that has had it one big industrial employer move out a couple of years ago .
The Queen , has done nothing for the economy other than run it into the ground .
It makes me wonder if her next great idea will be to get the US to sell MI to Canada , where she is from .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I grew up where they are doing it to the roads.
The main road Lake Montcalm happens to be the road that I grew up on.
And it has been going down hill for at least 20 years.
Montcalm county is a mainly rural county that has had it one big industrial employer move out a couple of years ago.
The Queen, has done nothing for the economy other than run it into the ground.
It makes me wonder if her next great idea will be to get the US to sell MI to Canada, where she is from.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340607</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>mitchplanck</author>
	<datestamp>1245059880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You might want to check your facts - Michigan is ranked 11th in size (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_U.S.\_states\_by\_area)</htmltext>
<tokenext>You might want to check your facts - Michigan is ranked 11th in size ( http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List \ _of \ _U.S. \ _states \ _by \ _area )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You might want to check your facts - Michigan is ranked 11th in size (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_U.S.\_states\_by\_area)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342751</id>
	<title>Re:Not the only cost...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245072780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We lost a tire on i75 not long ago. Pretty much wrecked the car. The roads in michigan are a joke, especially the interstate highways. I'd love to see any road last 30 years, let alone 5 to 10. What is interesting is traveling through ohio the highways are pretty nice. As soon as you reach the border to michigan you are greeted by car size potholes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We lost a tire on i75 not long ago .
Pretty much wrecked the car .
The roads in michigan are a joke , especially the interstate highways .
I 'd love to see any road last 30 years , let alone 5 to 10 .
What is interesting is traveling through ohio the highways are pretty nice .
As soon as you reach the border to michigan you are greeted by car size potholes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We lost a tire on i75 not long ago.
Pretty much wrecked the car.
The roads in michigan are a joke, especially the interstate highways.
I'd love to see any road last 30 years, let alone 5 to 10.
What is interesting is traveling through ohio the highways are pretty nice.
As soon as you reach the border to michigan you are greeted by car size potholes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339229</id>
	<title>Re:Easy to see coming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245097800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's because there aren't any illegal aliens in Michigan, due to its high unemployment rate.</p><p>Unlike the niggers and white trash that infests Michigan, illegals are here to work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's because there are n't any illegal aliens in Michigan , due to its high unemployment rate.Unlike the niggers and white trash that infests Michigan , illegals are here to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's because there aren't any illegal aliens in Michigan, due to its high unemployment rate.Unlike the niggers and white trash that infests Michigan, illegals are here to work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338383</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28345503</id>
	<title>All roads in France are asphalt</title>
	<author>slashbart</author>
	<datestamp>1245145860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I travel a lot in France on holidays (I'm an avid rockclimber) to all corners of the country, generally in the most rural and steep places. I don't think there is even one unpaved road in France, they're all good quality, from the excellent toll roads down to the smallest departmental or county road.
<p>Large parts of France are thinly populated: less then 50 person/km2, but the roads are always good.
</p><p>I guess it all has to do with what people find important, and the French do like speeding<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I travel a lot in France on holidays ( I 'm an avid rockclimber ) to all corners of the country , generally in the most rural and steep places .
I do n't think there is even one unpaved road in France , they 're all good quality , from the excellent toll roads down to the smallest departmental or county road .
Large parts of France are thinly populated : less then 50 person/km2 , but the roads are always good .
I guess it all has to do with what people find important , and the French do like speeding : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I travel a lot in France on holidays (I'm an avid rockclimber) to all corners of the country, generally in the most rural and steep places.
I don't think there is even one unpaved road in France, they're all good quality, from the excellent toll roads down to the smallest departmental or county road.
Large parts of France are thinly populated: less then 50 person/km2, but the roads are always good.
I guess it all has to do with what people find important, and the French do like speeding :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340675</id>
	<title>Re:Why aren't more roads concrete?</title>
	<author>jeffmeden</author>
	<datestamp>1245060060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>100 years old?  Pics or it didn't happen.  Freeze/thaw cycles (especially deep ones as seen in northern Michigan) take a huge toll on any kind of road surface.  Concrete has to be placed VERY VERY deep to be effective, and that means a very expensive excavation process.  Conversely, a lot of municipalities expect to have to widen/divert all but the most central of roads on a 15/20 year basis anyhow, which means that money spent on expensive concrete gets thrown away when the next round of expansion comes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>100 years old ?
Pics or it did n't happen .
Freeze/thaw cycles ( especially deep ones as seen in northern Michigan ) take a huge toll on any kind of road surface .
Concrete has to be placed VERY VERY deep to be effective , and that means a very expensive excavation process .
Conversely , a lot of municipalities expect to have to widen/divert all but the most central of roads on a 15/20 year basis anyhow , which means that money spent on expensive concrete gets thrown away when the next round of expansion comes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>100 years old?
Pics or it didn't happen.
Freeze/thaw cycles (especially deep ones as seen in northern Michigan) take a huge toll on any kind of road surface.
Concrete has to be placed VERY VERY deep to be effective, and that means a very expensive excavation process.
Conversely, a lot of municipalities expect to have to widen/divert all but the most central of roads on a 15/20 year basis anyhow, which means that money spent on expensive concrete gets thrown away when the next round of expansion comes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338577</id>
	<title>Crazy Administration blame game accusations</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245095760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was reading the thread under the article and wanted to quote a couple opinions.</p><p>obamautopia wrote:<br><i>"Fact: Gravel roads are more dangerous because they are more slippery due to loose gravel and potholes. If gravel roads were superior for transportation safety - then why isn't the interstate and the autobahn merely gravel roads? Why not city streets?</i></p><p><i>Fact: Gravel roads put more dust into atmosphere as anyone who has followed the choking dust of a vehicle moving ahead of you on a gravel / dirt road can tell you.</i></p><p><i>Fact: Gravel roads require more frequent oil changes - thus using more oil and dirty oil filters to dispose of. Also more air filter changes. Also more fuel filter changes. Also more car washing. Also more tires. Also more windshield replacement and fabricating glass requires a tremendous amount of energy.</i></p><p><i>Fact: Gravel roads are less fuel efficient. In one study in Bogota, Columbia, fuel consumption was reported to be 25\% higher for a vehicle moving on a gravel or earth surface than on an asphalt pavement.</i></p><p><i>Fact: Gravel roads wear out vehicles faster meaning more consumption to replace the parts, many of them steel parts which take an enormous amount of energy to fabricate and "carbon footprint" for the idiots who think anthropogenic "Global Warming" is anything other than a Leftist Agenda."</i></p><p>And another guy wrote, goomygoomy writes,<br><i>"I don't understand the problem. Why would you complain about PAVED ROADS, being turned in to GRAVEL ROADS? It's just CHANGE. I thought you all VOTED for CHANGE? Well...You've got it. Michigan, the Great Liberal Basket Case, is leading the way. As goes DETROIT, so goes Obama Nation. Aren't you IDIOTS bulldozing your towns down? This is UNCHECKED LIBERALISM. This is Obama SOCIALISM."</i></p><p>stoptherhetoric wrote:</p><p><i>"Nothing like a page full of ignorance from gommygoomy to start the day! People don't even take the time to read, they just spew their garbage! The Story CLEARLY states that Michigan Counties have had to revert to gravel THE PAST 3 YEARS!!!!</i></p><p><i>Do I need to remind you the last 3 years, W was President!!"</i></p><p>If you keep reading, you'll notice it all boils down to a huge administration blame game.  Reminds me of other discussion boards I've seen...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was reading the thread under the article and wanted to quote a couple opinions.obamautopia wrote : " Fact : Gravel roads are more dangerous because they are more slippery due to loose gravel and potholes .
If gravel roads were superior for transportation safety - then why is n't the interstate and the autobahn merely gravel roads ?
Why not city streets ? Fact : Gravel roads put more dust into atmosphere as anyone who has followed the choking dust of a vehicle moving ahead of you on a gravel / dirt road can tell you.Fact : Gravel roads require more frequent oil changes - thus using more oil and dirty oil filters to dispose of .
Also more air filter changes .
Also more fuel filter changes .
Also more car washing .
Also more tires .
Also more windshield replacement and fabricating glass requires a tremendous amount of energy.Fact : Gravel roads are less fuel efficient .
In one study in Bogota , Columbia , fuel consumption was reported to be 25 \ % higher for a vehicle moving on a gravel or earth surface than on an asphalt pavement.Fact : Gravel roads wear out vehicles faster meaning more consumption to replace the parts , many of them steel parts which take an enormous amount of energy to fabricate and " carbon footprint " for the idiots who think anthropogenic " Global Warming " is anything other than a Leftist Agenda .
" And another guy wrote , goomygoomy writes , " I do n't understand the problem .
Why would you complain about PAVED ROADS , being turned in to GRAVEL ROADS ?
It 's just CHANGE .
I thought you all VOTED for CHANGE ?
Well...You 've got it .
Michigan , the Great Liberal Basket Case , is leading the way .
As goes DETROIT , so goes Obama Nation .
Are n't you IDIOTS bulldozing your towns down ?
This is UNCHECKED LIBERALISM .
This is Obama SOCIALISM .
" stoptherhetoric wrote : " Nothing like a page full of ignorance from gommygoomy to start the day !
People do n't even take the time to read , they just spew their garbage !
The Story CLEARLY states that Michigan Counties have had to revert to gravel THE PAST 3 YEARS ! ! !
! Do I need to remind you the last 3 years , W was President ! !
" If you keep reading , you 'll notice it all boils down to a huge administration blame game .
Reminds me of other discussion boards I 've seen.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was reading the thread under the article and wanted to quote a couple opinions.obamautopia wrote:"Fact: Gravel roads are more dangerous because they are more slippery due to loose gravel and potholes.
If gravel roads were superior for transportation safety - then why isn't the interstate and the autobahn merely gravel roads?
Why not city streets?Fact: Gravel roads put more dust into atmosphere as anyone who has followed the choking dust of a vehicle moving ahead of you on a gravel / dirt road can tell you.Fact: Gravel roads require more frequent oil changes - thus using more oil and dirty oil filters to dispose of.
Also more air filter changes.
Also more fuel filter changes.
Also more car washing.
Also more tires.
Also more windshield replacement and fabricating glass requires a tremendous amount of energy.Fact: Gravel roads are less fuel efficient.
In one study in Bogota, Columbia, fuel consumption was reported to be 25\% higher for a vehicle moving on a gravel or earth surface than on an asphalt pavement.Fact: Gravel roads wear out vehicles faster meaning more consumption to replace the parts, many of them steel parts which take an enormous amount of energy to fabricate and "carbon footprint" for the idiots who think anthropogenic "Global Warming" is anything other than a Leftist Agenda.
"And another guy wrote, goomygoomy writes,"I don't understand the problem.
Why would you complain about PAVED ROADS, being turned in to GRAVEL ROADS?
It's just CHANGE.
I thought you all VOTED for CHANGE?
Well...You've got it.
Michigan, the Great Liberal Basket Case, is leading the way.
As goes DETROIT, so goes Obama Nation.
Aren't you IDIOTS bulldozing your towns down?
This is UNCHECKED LIBERALISM.
This is Obama SOCIALISM.
"stoptherhetoric wrote:"Nothing like a page full of ignorance from gommygoomy to start the day!
People don't even take the time to read, they just spew their garbage!
The Story CLEARLY states that Michigan Counties have had to revert to gravel THE PAST 3 YEARS!!!
!Do I need to remind you the last 3 years, W was President!!
"If you keep reading, you'll notice it all boils down to a huge administration blame game.
Reminds me of other discussion boards I've seen...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340867</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>billcopc</author>
	<datestamp>1245061020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every time you see a road being repaved, you see ten guys standing around staring at the one dude driving the roller.  Sure, the material cost may well be a significant part of the total bill, but here even a 5\% trimming of the fat would result in a rather large dollar amount, which could be better used elsewhere.  I think it's also safe to assume there could be material efficiency improvements from the use of modern machinery, rather than relying on a bunch of uneducated laborers eyeballing the whole job.</p><p>Having a bunch of relatives in the trucking and construction industry, and hearing <i>them</i> complain about the sloppy management and coordination, I have no problem suggesting that the whole process is in need of some serious rethinking and tweaking.  It wouldn't take a million dollars in engineers' salaries to tighten up the whole operation by at least 5\%, which means that optimization exercise could pay for itself within a month in a single city.</p><p>Even if it's found to be "impossible" to reduce costs, a secondary goal should be to reduce the time expenditure.  In the city, there are few things more annoying than having a bunch of major roads closed for several weeks while they work on them.  When you consider 100k vehicles per day being rerouted around the repair op, the net cost to commuters in wasted time, of a single 2-minute detour, greatly exceeds whatever the road service itself cost.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every time you see a road being repaved , you see ten guys standing around staring at the one dude driving the roller .
Sure , the material cost may well be a significant part of the total bill , but here even a 5 \ % trimming of the fat would result in a rather large dollar amount , which could be better used elsewhere .
I think it 's also safe to assume there could be material efficiency improvements from the use of modern machinery , rather than relying on a bunch of uneducated laborers eyeballing the whole job.Having a bunch of relatives in the trucking and construction industry , and hearing them complain about the sloppy management and coordination , I have no problem suggesting that the whole process is in need of some serious rethinking and tweaking .
It would n't take a million dollars in engineers ' salaries to tighten up the whole operation by at least 5 \ % , which means that optimization exercise could pay for itself within a month in a single city.Even if it 's found to be " impossible " to reduce costs , a secondary goal should be to reduce the time expenditure .
In the city , there are few things more annoying than having a bunch of major roads closed for several weeks while they work on them .
When you consider 100k vehicles per day being rerouted around the repair op , the net cost to commuters in wasted time , of a single 2-minute detour , greatly exceeds whatever the road service itself cost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every time you see a road being repaved, you see ten guys standing around staring at the one dude driving the roller.
Sure, the material cost may well be a significant part of the total bill, but here even a 5\% trimming of the fat would result in a rather large dollar amount, which could be better used elsewhere.
I think it's also safe to assume there could be material efficiency improvements from the use of modern machinery, rather than relying on a bunch of uneducated laborers eyeballing the whole job.Having a bunch of relatives in the trucking and construction industry, and hearing them complain about the sloppy management and coordination, I have no problem suggesting that the whole process is in need of some serious rethinking and tweaking.
It wouldn't take a million dollars in engineers' salaries to tighten up the whole operation by at least 5\%, which means that optimization exercise could pay for itself within a month in a single city.Even if it's found to be "impossible" to reduce costs, a secondary goal should be to reduce the time expenditure.
In the city, there are few things more annoying than having a bunch of major roads closed for several weeks while they work on them.
When you consider 100k vehicles per day being rerouted around the repair op, the net cost to commuters in wasted time, of a single 2-minute detour, greatly exceeds whatever the road service itself cost.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339347</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342629</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>ozbird</author>
	<datestamp>1245071700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.</p></div></blockquote><p>Welcome to Australia!  Next petrol: 300km.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I certainly would n't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though , where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.Welcome to Australia !
Next petrol : 300km .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.Welcome to Australia!
Next petrol: 300km.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338371</id>
	<title>Electricity and whale oil lighting?</title>
	<author>Andr T.</author>
	<datestamp>1245094980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How does that relate to the article? Is gravel that bad?
<p>At least gravel is better for the environment, isn't it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How does that relate to the article ?
Is gravel that bad ?
At least gravel is better for the environment , is n't it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How does that relate to the article?
Is gravel that bad?
At least gravel is better for the environment, isn't it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338961</id>
	<title>What the hell?</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1245096900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>News for nerds? Nope.<br>
Stuff that matters? Hardly.<br> <br>samzenpus needs to lose his editor status.</htmltext>
<tokenext>News for nerds ?
Nope . Stuff that matters ?
Hardly. samzenpus needs to lose his editor status .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>News for nerds?
Nope.
Stuff that matters?
Hardly. samzenpus needs to lose his editor status.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338329</id>
	<title>Not the only cost...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245094800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sure, that might save the state 90\% of the cost of repaving, but how about the cost to drivers who use these roads frequently and will have to replace their tires more frequently?  It might still be an overall savings, but it might not.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , that might save the state 90 \ % of the cost of repaving , but how about the cost to drivers who use these roads frequently and will have to replace their tires more frequently ?
It might still be an overall savings , but it might not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, that might save the state 90\% of the cost of repaving, but how about the cost to drivers who use these roads frequently and will have to replace their tires more frequently?
It might still be an overall savings, but it might not.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28344001</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>sponga</author>
	<datestamp>1245083640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well speaking as somebody who works side by side a Civil Engineer and on roads all day long; more money.</p><p>While your average highway in America has something like 8" inches of asphalt on a foot of gravel, I think the Germans use like 12" on 24". Those 4 extra inches allow for great roads, easier on the cars, flexibility and longer term use. They fill their patches much quicker and dedicate a huge amount of their budget for these roads. That gravel allows for larger loads also and aborb more, that's why they have huge thick 24" slabs of concrete outside a fire station so the driveway doesn't start warping.</p><p>Throwing more money at it is really what the Germans do to the Autobahn, but they have perfected the patching procedure over time and have ridiculous response time.</p><p>I do this all the time when giving businesses estimates for asphalt repairs; people don't like the price so they cheap out on the work and when cracks start showing up after the next big rain they complain (sorry I warned you so you can't sue me). It's like, no shit when you cheap out on repair jobs you just end up paying more in the long run.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well speaking as somebody who works side by side a Civil Engineer and on roads all day long ; more money.While your average highway in America has something like 8 " inches of asphalt on a foot of gravel , I think the Germans use like 12 " on 24 " .
Those 4 extra inches allow for great roads , easier on the cars , flexibility and longer term use .
They fill their patches much quicker and dedicate a huge amount of their budget for these roads .
That gravel allows for larger loads also and aborb more , that 's why they have huge thick 24 " slabs of concrete outside a fire station so the driveway does n't start warping.Throwing more money at it is really what the Germans do to the Autobahn , but they have perfected the patching procedure over time and have ridiculous response time.I do this all the time when giving businesses estimates for asphalt repairs ; people do n't like the price so they cheap out on the work and when cracks start showing up after the next big rain they complain ( sorry I warned you so you ca n't sue me ) .
It 's like , no shit when you cheap out on repair jobs you just end up paying more in the long run .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well speaking as somebody who works side by side a Civil Engineer and on roads all day long; more money.While your average highway in America has something like 8" inches of asphalt on a foot of gravel, I think the Germans use like 12" on 24".
Those 4 extra inches allow for great roads, easier on the cars, flexibility and longer term use.
They fill their patches much quicker and dedicate a huge amount of their budget for these roads.
That gravel allows for larger loads also and aborb more, that's why they have huge thick 24" slabs of concrete outside a fire station so the driveway doesn't start warping.Throwing more money at it is really what the Germans do to the Autobahn, but they have perfected the patching procedure over time and have ridiculous response time.I do this all the time when giving businesses estimates for asphalt repairs; people don't like the price so they cheap out on the work and when cracks start showing up after the next big rain they complain (sorry I warned you so you can't sue me).
It's like, no shit when you cheap out on repair jobs you just end up paying more in the long run.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339035</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343901</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel Roads are great - just ask West Virginia</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1245082860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps.</p><p>However, if a road carries very little traffic and leads to nowhere, it makes no sense to pour buckets of money into its maintenance.  If anything, it will encourage people to move to areas that are more productive and sustainable.</p><p>In many cases, I see several roads running parallel (particularly along interstates).  If a certain route can be served by other means, it makes sense to consolidate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps.However , if a road carries very little traffic and leads to nowhere , it makes no sense to pour buckets of money into its maintenance .
If anything , it will encourage people to move to areas that are more productive and sustainable.In many cases , I see several roads running parallel ( particularly along interstates ) .
If a certain route can be served by other means , it makes sense to consolidate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps.However, if a road carries very little traffic and leads to nowhere, it makes no sense to pour buckets of money into its maintenance.
If anything, it will encourage people to move to areas that are more productive and sustainable.In many cases, I see several roads running parallel (particularly along interstates).
If a certain route can be served by other means, it makes sense to consolidate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338499</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341477</id>
	<title>Re:Why aren't more roads concrete?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245064500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What are the seasonal temperature fluxuations around there?  In the northern states or in Canada, it can go from +100 in summer to -35 in winter... which causes a whoooooole lot of problems with just about any road surface.  No matter what it is, you'll have to be fixing or replacing a LOT of it on a regular basis every year... at which point you're left with deciding what let's you go the fastest (say... 65), while costing the least in installation/repairs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What are the seasonal temperature fluxuations around there ?
In the northern states or in Canada , it can go from + 100 in summer to -35 in winter... which causes a whoooooole lot of problems with just about any road surface .
No matter what it is , you 'll have to be fixing or replacing a LOT of it on a regular basis every year... at which point you 're left with deciding what let 's you go the fastest ( say... 65 ) , while costing the least in installation/repairs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What are the seasonal temperature fluxuations around there?
In the northern states or in Canada, it can go from +100 in summer to -35 in winter... which causes a whoooooole lot of problems with just about any road surface.
No matter what it is, you'll have to be fixing or replacing a LOT of it on a regular basis every year... at which point you're left with deciding what let's you go the fastest (say... 65), while costing the least in installation/repairs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343653</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245080460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey, it's not that small.  It takes about 11 hours to get from one end to the other (Temperance to Ironwood, about as far apart as you can get in MI).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , it 's not that small .
It takes about 11 hours to get from one end to the other ( Temperance to Ironwood , about as far apart as you can get in MI ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, it's not that small.
It takes about 11 hours to get from one end to the other (Temperance to Ironwood, about as far apart as you can get in MI).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339713</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah, it's the end of the world</title>
	<author>tist</author>
	<datestamp>1245056520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>...doesn't require nearly as much <em>active</em> maintenance, as in, driving over it with snowploughs when it snows, to be able to drive on it at all. </p></div><p>Having driven all sorts of roads and being from Buffalo, NY, I'm confused by the contention that you don't have to plow or salt/sand a gravel road. I'm sure the folks in Michigan can tell you that a road (no matter what it's made out of) has to be kept clear of ice and snow to be passable in the winter. Maybe you live in a much warmer clime?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...does n't require nearly as much active maintenance , as in , driving over it with snowploughs when it snows , to be able to drive on it at all .
Having driven all sorts of roads and being from Buffalo , NY , I 'm confused by the contention that you do n't have to plow or salt/sand a gravel road .
I 'm sure the folks in Michigan can tell you that a road ( no matter what it 's made out of ) has to be kept clear of ice and snow to be passable in the winter .
Maybe you live in a much warmer clime ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...doesn't require nearly as much active maintenance, as in, driving over it with snowploughs when it snows, to be able to drive on it at all.
Having driven all sorts of roads and being from Buffalo, NY, I'm confused by the contention that you don't have to plow or salt/sand a gravel road.
I'm sure the folks in Michigan can tell you that a road (no matter what it's made out of) has to be kept clear of ice and snow to be passable in the winter.
Maybe you live in a much warmer clime?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338379</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339929</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>stefanlasiewski</author>
	<datestamp>1245057300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.</i></p><p>In many cases, there are multiple roads to a destination. Some will remain paved, other will be gravel. The paved roads are used for longer distances, the dirt roads are more for local access.</p><p>This was the case in rural coastal California in the 80s. And I've seen plenty of dirt roads in Nevada, Arizona &amp; Utah. But the highways and major roads were still paved.</p><p>Some drivers might need to adjust their habits. I'm reading plenty of comments here about "increased breaking time", 'I can't go 50 mph on a dirt road', etc. In these cases, drivers just need to slow down-- it's what people used to do.</p><p>We don't have to pave every single remote rural road, especially at a time when we're closing schools.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I certainly would n't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though , where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.In many cases , there are multiple roads to a destination .
Some will remain paved , other will be gravel .
The paved roads are used for longer distances , the dirt roads are more for local access.This was the case in rural coastal California in the 80s .
And I 've seen plenty of dirt roads in Nevada , Arizona &amp; Utah .
But the highways and major roads were still paved.Some drivers might need to adjust their habits .
I 'm reading plenty of comments here about " increased breaking time " , 'I ca n't go 50 mph on a dirt road ' , etc .
In these cases , drivers just need to slow down-- it 's what people used to do.We do n't have to pave every single remote rural road , especially at a time when we 're closing schools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I certainly wouldn't want to try this tactic anywhere out west though, where vast distances make driving on gravel roads much more of a chore.In many cases, there are multiple roads to a destination.
Some will remain paved, other will be gravel.
The paved roads are used for longer distances, the dirt roads are more for local access.This was the case in rural coastal California in the 80s.
And I've seen plenty of dirt roads in Nevada, Arizona &amp; Utah.
But the highways and major roads were still paved.Some drivers might need to adjust their habits.
I'm reading plenty of comments here about "increased breaking time", 'I can't go 50 mph on a dirt road', etc.
In these cases, drivers just need to slow down-- it's what people used to do.We don't have to pave every single remote rural road, especially at a time when we're closing schools.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338473</id>
	<title>Winter?</title>
	<author>Pingh</author>
	<datestamp>1245095340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can't imagine these are main roads.
What happens in winter when the city has to plow the roads?

Usually all gravel roads here are seasonal and closed during the winter.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't imagine these are main roads .
What happens in winter when the city has to plow the roads ?
Usually all gravel roads here are seasonal and closed during the winter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't imagine these are main roads.
What happens in winter when the city has to plow the roads?
Usually all gravel roads here are seasonal and closed during the winter.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28349841</id>
	<title>down with gravel, up with planks!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245175980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Heh.  And to think I just heard about MI's former plank roads.</p><p>Yoinked from a Bentley Historical Library posting, University of Michigan, about MI plank roads (http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases/story.php?id=865)</p><p>"[...] these plank roads in Michigan were a godsend to the state's farmers who often had difficulty getting their farm products to market. One Wayne County farmer reported that the roads were impassable for a large portion of the year and most of his profit was swallowed up in carrying his produce to Detroit if he could get it there at all [...] [T]he wear and tear on the farmer's horses, harness and vehicle when traveling a plank road was reduced by nearly half. [...] Farmers preferred to pay the tolls rather than have to rub down horses after traveling on an unimproved road or mud and dust and mire."</p><p>Back to logging!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Heh .
And to think I just heard about MI 's former plank roads.Yoinked from a Bentley Historical Library posting , University of Michigan , about MI plank roads ( http : //www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases/story.php ? id = 865 ) " [ ... ] these plank roads in Michigan were a godsend to the state 's farmers who often had difficulty getting their farm products to market .
One Wayne County farmer reported that the roads were impassable for a large portion of the year and most of his profit was swallowed up in carrying his produce to Detroit if he could get it there at all [ ... ] [ T ] he wear and tear on the farmer 's horses , harness and vehicle when traveling a plank road was reduced by nearly half .
[ ... ] Farmers preferred to pay the tolls rather than have to rub down horses after traveling on an unimproved road or mud and dust and mire .
" Back to logging !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heh.
And to think I just heard about MI's former plank roads.Yoinked from a Bentley Historical Library posting, University of Michigan, about MI plank roads (http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases/story.php?id=865)"[...] these plank roads in Michigan were a godsend to the state's farmers who often had difficulty getting their farm products to market.
One Wayne County farmer reported that the roads were impassable for a large portion of the year and most of his profit was swallowed up in carrying his produce to Detroit if he could get it there at all [...] [T]he wear and tear on the farmer's horses, harness and vehicle when traveling a plank road was reduced by nearly half.
[...] Farmers preferred to pay the tolls rather than have to rub down horses after traveling on an unimproved road or mud and dust and mire.
"Back to logging!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28351439</id>
	<title>Darn</title>
	<author>kenp2002</author>
	<datestamp>1245181440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guess they'll actually have to cut back on giving out free money to people that don't earn it in order to free up money...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess they 'll actually have to cut back on giving out free money to people that do n't earn it in order to free up money.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess they'll actually have to cut back on giving out free money to people that don't earn it in order to free up money...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28381067</id>
	<title>I have my own "gravel road"</title>
	<author>re\_organeyes</author>
	<datestamp>1245321240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some might call it a boat, or a hole in the water that you just keep dumping money into. Gravel roads are great for the greatly less traveled roads, but for general everyday traffic, bad idea. As someone else already mentioned, they are much more prone to need repair than an asphalt road.</p><p>I mean I can see the logic here, "Let's save money by spending more money! The logic I see is the one that a child would argue with.</p><p>I just hope the ambulance they are taking someone's loved one in isn't driving on one of those gravel roads.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some might call it a boat , or a hole in the water that you just keep dumping money into .
Gravel roads are great for the greatly less traveled roads , but for general everyday traffic , bad idea .
As someone else already mentioned , they are much more prone to need repair than an asphalt road.I mean I can see the logic here , " Let 's save money by spending more money !
The logic I see is the one that a child would argue with.I just hope the ambulance they are taking someone 's loved one in is n't driving on one of those gravel roads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some might call it a boat, or a hole in the water that you just keep dumping money into.
Gravel roads are great for the greatly less traveled roads, but for general everyday traffic, bad idea.
As someone else already mentioned, they are much more prone to need repair than an asphalt road.I mean I can see the logic here, "Let's save money by spending more money!
The logic I see is the one that a child would argue with.I just hope the ambulance they are taking someone's loved one in isn't driving on one of those gravel roads.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338497</id>
	<title>Re:Not the only cost...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245095460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>but the sale of the additional tires means more sales tax for the state.<br>more labor for local workers.<br>and more local shops (perhaps national companies) that pay the state more local business taxes.</p><p>its a win, win right?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>but the sale of the additional tires means more sales tax for the state.more labor for local workers.and more local shops ( perhaps national companies ) that pay the state more local business taxes.its a win , win right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but the sale of the additional tires means more sales tax for the state.more labor for local workers.and more local shops (perhaps national companies) that pay the state more local business taxes.its a win, win right?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339167</id>
	<title>Re:Michitucky?</title>
	<author>Anita Coney</author>
	<datestamp>1245097560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"<i>You can't plow them for snow removal. Michigan gets some big snow, so this means isolating people until a thaw.</i>"</p><p>It's one thing to be ignorant, it's another thing to blow crap out of your ass.  Gravel roads get plowed without <i>any</i> difficulty in Michigan.  I've lived on gravel roads since the 60s so I know this first hand.</p><p>"<i>Even the Amish will laugh at Michigan if they do this</i>"</p><p>We don't have Amish in Michigan.  We have Mennonites.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You ca n't plow them for snow removal .
Michigan gets some big snow , so this means isolating people until a thaw .
" It 's one thing to be ignorant , it 's another thing to blow crap out of your ass .
Gravel roads get plowed without any difficulty in Michigan .
I 've lived on gravel roads since the 60s so I know this first hand .
" Even the Amish will laugh at Michigan if they do this " We do n't have Amish in Michigan .
We have Mennonites .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You can't plow them for snow removal.
Michigan gets some big snow, so this means isolating people until a thaw.
"It's one thing to be ignorant, it's another thing to blow crap out of your ass.
Gravel roads get plowed without any difficulty in Michigan.
I've lived on gravel roads since the 60s so I know this first hand.
"Even the Amish will laugh at Michigan if they do this"We don't have Amish in Michigan.
We have Mennonites.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338705</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28344203</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245085800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sorry, but I go to college in Michigan, 500 miles from where I live in Michigan. How many western states have "vast distances" like that?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sorry , but I go to college in Michigan , 500 miles from where I live in Michigan .
How many western states have " vast distances " like that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sorry, but I go to college in Michigan, 500 miles from where I live in Michigan.
How many western states have "vast distances" like that?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339801</id>
	<title>Re:Electricity and whale oil lighting?</title>
	<author>Itninja</author>
	<datestamp>1245056820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Whale oil is not fundamentally 'bad' either. It's just been replaced by electricity. It's a joke. Laugh.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Whale oil is not fundamentally 'bad ' either .
It 's just been replaced by electricity .
It 's a joke .
Laugh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whale oil is not fundamentally 'bad' either.
It's just been replaced by electricity.
It's a joke.
Laugh.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338371</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341811</id>
	<title>Reverted roads can be very dangerous</title>
	<author>laughingskeptic</author>
	<datestamp>1245066540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have driven on reverted roads like this and if they do a cheap job of it and do not soften up the road bed, it can be like driving on a thin layer of ball bearings.  Your stopping distance becomes very very long.  A thin layer of gravel over something hard is much worse than a normal gravel road.  As a teenager I learned this lesson.  Fortunately the only thing damaged while I learned this lesson was a couple of innocent shrubberies.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have driven on reverted roads like this and if they do a cheap job of it and do not soften up the road bed , it can be like driving on a thin layer of ball bearings .
Your stopping distance becomes very very long .
A thin layer of gravel over something hard is much worse than a normal gravel road .
As a teenager I learned this lesson .
Fortunately the only thing damaged while I learned this lesson was a couple of innocent shrubberies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have driven on reverted roads like this and if they do a cheap job of it and do not soften up the road bed, it can be like driving on a thin layer of ball bearings.
Your stopping distance becomes very very long.
A thin layer of gravel over something hard is much worse than a normal gravel road.
As a teenager I learned this lesson.
Fortunately the only thing damaged while I learned this lesson was a couple of innocent shrubberies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28354733</id>
	<title>It's 2009! Where's my flying car?</title>
	<author>hutsell</author>
	<datestamp>1245152400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's so obvious. If this existed, road construction technology would be a non-issue.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's so obvious .
If this existed , road construction technology would be a non-issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's so obvious.
If this existed, road construction technology would be a non-issue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338777</id>
	<title>Re:Not the only cost...</title>
	<author>igny</author>
	<datestamp>1245096420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>but how about the cost to drivers who use these roads frequently and will have to replace their tires more frequently?</i>
<br> <br>
It is easy to offset this cost by making the road a toll road. Oh wait...</htmltext>
<tokenext>but how about the cost to drivers who use these roads frequently and will have to replace their tires more frequently ?
It is easy to offset this cost by making the road a toll road .
Oh wait.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but how about the cost to drivers who use these roads frequently and will have to replace their tires more frequently?
It is easy to offset this cost by making the road a toll road.
Oh wait...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338329</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28347825</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah, it's the end of the world</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245168540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, I live in Michigan, and drive a lot in Montcalm county, and know the very roads that they are regressing to gravel. The problem isn't that 50 miles of road are being converted to gravel, it is that practically all of the roads in michigan are deteriorating to third world standards, and the proposed solution isn't to work to repave them, but rather to let them go to gravel and dirt.</p><p>The roads here suck, bad. It has gotten to the point where I am considering trading in my vehicles for something that is more 'off road' capable. I no longer take my sportbike out because of rampant pot holes and gravel in the curves, and am looking to trade it for an dual sport type. My car has tight suspension and low ground clearance, and I think that is going to need to go for something that is more trail capable. It's getting that bad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , I live in Michigan , and drive a lot in Montcalm county , and know the very roads that they are regressing to gravel .
The problem is n't that 50 miles of road are being converted to gravel , it is that practically all of the roads in michigan are deteriorating to third world standards , and the proposed solution is n't to work to repave them , but rather to let them go to gravel and dirt.The roads here suck , bad .
It has gotten to the point where I am considering trading in my vehicles for something that is more 'off road ' capable .
I no longer take my sportbike out because of rampant pot holes and gravel in the curves , and am looking to trade it for an dual sport type .
My car has tight suspension and low ground clearance , and I think that is going to need to go for something that is more trail capable .
It 's getting that bad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, I live in Michigan, and drive a lot in Montcalm county, and know the very roads that they are regressing to gravel.
The problem isn't that 50 miles of road are being converted to gravel, it is that practically all of the roads in michigan are deteriorating to third world standards, and the proposed solution isn't to work to repave them, but rather to let them go to gravel and dirt.The roads here suck, bad.
It has gotten to the point where I am considering trading in my vehicles for something that is more 'off road' capable.
I no longer take my sportbike out because of rampant pot holes and gravel in the curves, and am looking to trade it for an dual sport type.
My car has tight suspension and low ground clearance, and I think that is going to need to go for something that is more trail capable.
It's getting that bad.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338379</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341759</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>cartman94501</author>
	<datestamp>1245066180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google Maps says Monroe (about as far southeast as you can get) is 10 hours 1 minute (597 miles) from Houghton, not 15 hours. Washington DC is 488 miles (8 hours six minutes), so it's about 20\% closer in both time and distance. I grew up in Maine, the 39th largest state, and the longest trip one can make within Maine without backtracking was 362 miles or about 6 hours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google Maps says Monroe ( about as far southeast as you can get ) is 10 hours 1 minute ( 597 miles ) from Houghton , not 15 hours .
Washington DC is 488 miles ( 8 hours six minutes ) , so it 's about 20 \ % closer in both time and distance .
I grew up in Maine , the 39th largest state , and the longest trip one can make within Maine without backtracking was 362 miles or about 6 hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google Maps says Monroe (about as far southeast as you can get) is 10 hours 1 minute (597 miles) from Houghton, not 15 hours.
Washington DC is 488 miles (8 hours six minutes), so it's about 20\% closer in both time and distance.
I grew up in Maine, the 39th largest state, and the longest trip one can make within Maine without backtracking was 362 miles or about 6 hours.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341943</id>
	<title>Re:Crazy Administration blame game accusations</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245067200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indeed...  What stoptherhetoric doesn't get is that it's a mix of about the last 12+ years worth of fun (it takes 10-20 years for people to feel the impacts of the stupidity or good done in most cases...) and it was the combined efforts of the Admin of Clinton AND Bush- and the Congress for both administrations- to screw this up as bad as it is right now.</p><p>People need to quit pointing fingers, stop doing the stupid crap, and work at fixing the mess we're in.  Unfortunately, there's still entirely too much pointing of fingers going on in DC for things to start getting better at this time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed... What stoptherhetoric does n't get is that it 's a mix of about the last 12 + years worth of fun ( it takes 10-20 years for people to feel the impacts of the stupidity or good done in most cases... ) and it was the combined efforts of the Admin of Clinton AND Bush- and the Congress for both administrations- to screw this up as bad as it is right now.People need to quit pointing fingers , stop doing the stupid crap , and work at fixing the mess we 're in .
Unfortunately , there 's still entirely too much pointing of fingers going on in DC for things to start getting better at this time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed...  What stoptherhetoric doesn't get is that it's a mix of about the last 12+ years worth of fun (it takes 10-20 years for people to feel the impacts of the stupidity or good done in most cases...) and it was the combined efforts of the Admin of Clinton AND Bush- and the Congress for both administrations- to screw this up as bad as it is right now.People need to quit pointing fingers, stop doing the stupid crap, and work at fixing the mess we're in.
Unfortunately, there's still entirely too much pointing of fingers going on in DC for things to start getting better at this time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343957</id>
	<title>Re:Unintended consequences</title>
	<author>ffflala</author>
	<datestamp>1245083340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Property on a gravel road is worth less than property on a paved road. So, by their actions, the government has reduced the value of a landowner's property. Usually this triggers a lawsuit - which, if successful, could easily wipe out any savings.</p></div><p>No, it doesn't. You say "usually triggers a lawsuit" -- hell, point me *one* successful &amp; analogous lawsuit and I'll stand corrected.</p><p>As for the reduced tax revenue, the arithmetic points to pretty clear savings. We have $90,000 per mile savings on roads, versus a decreased tax revenue that has to be estimated. So let's estimate 20 houses per mile, the value of which has decreased the values from $100k to $80k which menas a reduction in property taxes of ~$600 per house. I believe that each of these figures is rather generous estimate: I grew up in rural Michigan, so I took my real estimates for houses per mile and value, and doubled them (and used the MI state property tax estimator.)</p><p>That gives you $12,000/mile in lost property taxes compared to $90,000/mile in construction savings. You'd have to get 40 houses per mile whose values dropped 40\%  --and sustain those figures for each mile-- to approach the savings from this measure. I'm guessing that the municipalites have run much more accurate figures themselves and came up with the same conclusion: it's worth it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Property on a gravel road is worth less than property on a paved road .
So , by their actions , the government has reduced the value of a landowner 's property .
Usually this triggers a lawsuit - which , if successful , could easily wipe out any savings.No , it does n't .
You say " usually triggers a lawsuit " -- hell , point me * one * successful &amp; analogous lawsuit and I 'll stand corrected.As for the reduced tax revenue , the arithmetic points to pretty clear savings .
We have $ 90,000 per mile savings on roads , versus a decreased tax revenue that has to be estimated .
So let 's estimate 20 houses per mile , the value of which has decreased the values from $ 100k to $ 80k which menas a reduction in property taxes of ~ $ 600 per house .
I believe that each of these figures is rather generous estimate : I grew up in rural Michigan , so I took my real estimates for houses per mile and value , and doubled them ( and used the MI state property tax estimator .
) That gives you $ 12,000/mile in lost property taxes compared to $ 90,000/mile in construction savings .
You 'd have to get 40 houses per mile whose values dropped 40 \ % --and sustain those figures for each mile-- to approach the savings from this measure .
I 'm guessing that the municipalites have run much more accurate figures themselves and came up with the same conclusion : it 's worth it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Property on a gravel road is worth less than property on a paved road.
So, by their actions, the government has reduced the value of a landowner's property.
Usually this triggers a lawsuit - which, if successful, could easily wipe out any savings.No, it doesn't.
You say "usually triggers a lawsuit" -- hell, point me *one* successful &amp; analogous lawsuit and I'll stand corrected.As for the reduced tax revenue, the arithmetic points to pretty clear savings.
We have $90,000 per mile savings on roads, versus a decreased tax revenue that has to be estimated.
So let's estimate 20 houses per mile, the value of which has decreased the values from $100k to $80k which menas a reduction in property taxes of ~$600 per house.
I believe that each of these figures is rather generous estimate: I grew up in rural Michigan, so I took my real estimates for houses per mile and value, and doubled them (and used the MI state property tax estimator.
)That gives you $12,000/mile in lost property taxes compared to $90,000/mile in construction savings.
You'd have to get 40 houses per mile whose values dropped 40\%  --and sustain those figures for each mile-- to approach the savings from this measure.
I'm guessing that the municipalites have run much more accurate figures themselves and came up with the same conclusion: it's worth it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338647</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338851</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245096660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, you're pretty much right on with this.</p><p>My local town handles the main road through town and its been going on 20 years without issues where as the road connecting to the town needs to be replaced every 10 years. Oddly enough also we paid less for our road.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , you 're pretty much right on with this.My local town handles the main road through town and its been going on 20 years without issues where as the road connecting to the town needs to be replaced every 10 years .
Oddly enough also we paid less for our road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, you're pretty much right on with this.My local town handles the main road through town and its been going on 20 years without issues where as the road connecting to the town needs to be replaced every 10 years.
Oddly enough also we paid less for our road.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28343389</id>
	<title>Soon we'll all be fucked...  Re:Michigan is fucked</title>
	<author>sjs132</author>
	<datestamp>1245078000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They've decided that Flint Michigan must SHRINK 40\% to survive.... So the answer is to bulldoze parts of flint and let it return to nature.    49 other cities to be targeted.  Is yours next?</p><p><a href="http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/5358258/" title="wral.com">http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/5358258/</a> [wral.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 've decided that Flint Michigan must SHRINK 40 \ % to survive.... So the answer is to bulldoze parts of flint and let it return to nature .
49 other cities to be targeted .
Is yours next ? http : //www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/5358258/ [ wral.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They've decided that Flint Michigan must SHRINK 40\% to survive.... So the answer is to bulldoze parts of flint and let it return to nature.
49 other cities to be targeted.
Is yours next?http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/5358258/ [wral.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338311</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338435</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245095160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I imagine the biggest factor in reverting a road is the amount of traffic it sees. Having visited family in rural MI thirty years ago and recently a few years back there are a LOT more paved roads. A lot of these paved roads are lucky to see 10 cars a day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I imagine the biggest factor in reverting a road is the amount of traffic it sees .
Having visited family in rural MI thirty years ago and recently a few years back there are a LOT more paved roads .
A lot of these paved roads are lucky to see 10 cars a day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I imagine the biggest factor in reverting a road is the amount of traffic it sees.
Having visited family in rural MI thirty years ago and recently a few years back there are a LOT more paved roads.
A lot of these paved roads are lucky to see 10 cars a day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28341367</id>
	<title>This is less expensive?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245064020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to live in Tecumseh Township, Lenaway County, MI.  Our township learned that paving roads was cheaper in the long run than having gravel roads.  Gravel roads require an enormous amount of annual maintenance.  Properly built asphalt roads require minimum maintenance and are much less expensive over the life of the road.  Concrete roads are even better, but require a much higher cost to install.</p><p>I think these guys are looking at the current expenses, and not at the big picture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to live in Tecumseh Township , Lenaway County , MI .
Our township learned that paving roads was cheaper in the long run than having gravel roads .
Gravel roads require an enormous amount of annual maintenance .
Properly built asphalt roads require minimum maintenance and are much less expensive over the life of the road .
Concrete roads are even better , but require a much higher cost to install.I think these guys are looking at the current expenses , and not at the big picture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to live in Tecumseh Township, Lenaway County, MI.
Our township learned that paving roads was cheaper in the long run than having gravel roads.
Gravel roads require an enormous amount of annual maintenance.
Properly built asphalt roads require minimum maintenance and are much less expensive over the life of the road.
Concrete roads are even better, but require a much higher cost to install.I think these guys are looking at the current expenses, and not at the big picture.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28346181</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel Damage</title>
	<author>zifferent</author>
	<datestamp>1245157020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uhmm, you are. You didn't expect me to provide you with vehicle welfare and support your new car habit did you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uhmm , you are .
You did n't expect me to provide you with vehicle welfare and support your new car habit did you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uhmm, you are.
You didn't expect me to provide you with vehicle welfare and support your new car habit did you?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338943</id>
	<title>Dust and the EPA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245096840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wish Phoenix, AZ (Maricopa County) would follow this example. Mainly to reduce the "heat island" effect that we are currently creating.</p><p>But I know this isn't going to happen because the EPA has already stated that Phoenix (and surrounding cities) have to pave all the gravel roads to reduce the particulate matter in the air, or else we loose our federal road subsidies.</p><p>So just wait a bit for the EPA to step in for those counties and force them back to paving their roads.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish Phoenix , AZ ( Maricopa County ) would follow this example .
Mainly to reduce the " heat island " effect that we are currently creating.But I know this is n't going to happen because the EPA has already stated that Phoenix ( and surrounding cities ) have to pave all the gravel roads to reduce the particulate matter in the air , or else we loose our federal road subsidies.So just wait a bit for the EPA to step in for those counties and force them back to paving their roads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish Phoenix, AZ (Maricopa County) would follow this example.
Mainly to reduce the "heat island" effect that we are currently creating.But I know this isn't going to happen because the EPA has already stated that Phoenix (and surrounding cities) have to pave all the gravel roads to reduce the particulate matter in the air, or else we loose our federal road subsidies.So just wait a bit for the EPA to step in for those counties and force them back to paving their roads.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28345403</id>
	<title>could be worse</title>
	<author>ILongForDarkness</author>
	<datestamp>1245144300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In Dresden, Germany a lot of the streets are cobble stone. This was done on purpose as far as I know to keep the "historical feel". So if you drive faster than 30kmh you get shaken all to hell. I also twisted my ankle pretty bad a couple times because there is big gaps between the stones so if you hit the stone the wrong way you get your foot stuck in a crack. Some areas of the city can't get highspeed internet because they have really old phone wiring, where as other areas which can be literally across the street have 30Mbps for ~$55. The US government has been skimping on infrastructure for 40+ years. Here's a thought, rather than throwing 100B at GM, why didn't they use that money for rebuilding the streets? Bail out a company that makes cars no one wants when you don't have roads that anyone wants, crazy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>In Dresden , Germany a lot of the streets are cobble stone .
This was done on purpose as far as I know to keep the " historical feel " .
So if you drive faster than 30kmh you get shaken all to hell .
I also twisted my ankle pretty bad a couple times because there is big gaps between the stones so if you hit the stone the wrong way you get your foot stuck in a crack .
Some areas of the city ca n't get highspeed internet because they have really old phone wiring , where as other areas which can be literally across the street have 30Mbps for ~ $ 55 .
The US government has been skimping on infrastructure for 40 + years .
Here 's a thought , rather than throwing 100B at GM , why did n't they use that money for rebuilding the streets ?
Bail out a company that makes cars no one wants when you do n't have roads that anyone wants , crazy : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Dresden, Germany a lot of the streets are cobble stone.
This was done on purpose as far as I know to keep the "historical feel".
So if you drive faster than 30kmh you get shaken all to hell.
I also twisted my ankle pretty bad a couple times because there is big gaps between the stones so if you hit the stone the wrong way you get your foot stuck in a crack.
Some areas of the city can't get highspeed internet because they have really old phone wiring, where as other areas which can be literally across the street have 30Mbps for ~$55.
The US government has been skimping on infrastructure for 40+ years.
Here's a thought, rather than throwing 100B at GM, why didn't they use that money for rebuilding the streets?
Bail out a company that makes cars no one wants when you don't have roads that anyone wants, crazy :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28347911</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel roads are cheap but need more maintenanc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245169020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I can't go 50 mph on a dirt road</i></p><p>I sure can............ pansy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't go 50 mph on a dirt roadI sure can............ pansy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't go 50 mph on a dirt roadI sure can............ pansy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339929</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28347577</id>
	<title>By Neruos</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245167280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Americans need to come to a realization that their country is failing apart. It's not a bad thing, it is just a course of natural history. No other country had what America had and no other country grew so fast like America did. After it is all said and done, a diplomatic-social-capitalist-etc big goverment just doesn't work.</p><p>You're governments (both state and fed) are spending more money then they are pulling in. Eventually your infrastructure is going to go bankrupt and you're beyond the fixing point. So be prepared for change, the areas of infrastructure are already failing and are beginning to take hold.</p><p>1. Power is getting more expensive<br>2. Oil is getting more expensive<br>3. Education infrastructure is dropping<br>4. Highway and road infrastructure is dropping<br>5. Cost of living is rising faster then the economy can support<br>6. Taxes are raising higher then the avg incoming + COL can support<br>7. Almost all fortune 800 companies are offshoring<br>8. Cost of healthcare is rising<br>9. Number of people requiring healthcare is rising<br>10. Number of people becoming 100\% dependant of socialized support is rising<br>11. Number of states increasing local taxes and asking for federal support is rising<br>12. Avg salary for americans is between 20-35,000$ a year<br>13. Number of college applications is dropping<br>14. Crime rate is rising<br>15. Drug and Substance abuse is rising<br>16. Number of AIDs and Cancer cases are rising</p><p>and I could go on, I'm not saying it isn't any better anywhere else in the world, but a shift is coming and it would be wise to pay attention and even more so to do action. Government officals can only do what the people want, when you want someone out of office, you remove them, not whine on internet forums. Here are some cheerful ups to the above issues.</p><p>1. Walmart has some cheap ass stuff</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Americans need to come to a realization that their country is failing apart .
It 's not a bad thing , it is just a course of natural history .
No other country had what America had and no other country grew so fast like America did .
After it is all said and done , a diplomatic-social-capitalist-etc big goverment just does n't work.You 're governments ( both state and fed ) are spending more money then they are pulling in .
Eventually your infrastructure is going to go bankrupt and you 're beyond the fixing point .
So be prepared for change , the areas of infrastructure are already failing and are beginning to take hold.1 .
Power is getting more expensive2 .
Oil is getting more expensive3 .
Education infrastructure is dropping4 .
Highway and road infrastructure is dropping5 .
Cost of living is rising faster then the economy can support6 .
Taxes are raising higher then the avg incoming + COL can support7 .
Almost all fortune 800 companies are offshoring8 .
Cost of healthcare is rising9 .
Number of people requiring healthcare is rising10 .
Number of people becoming 100 \ % dependant of socialized support is rising11 .
Number of states increasing local taxes and asking for federal support is rising12 .
Avg salary for americans is between 20-35,000 $ a year13 .
Number of college applications is dropping14 .
Crime rate is rising15 .
Drug and Substance abuse is rising16 .
Number of AIDs and Cancer cases are risingand I could go on , I 'm not saying it is n't any better anywhere else in the world , but a shift is coming and it would be wise to pay attention and even more so to do action .
Government officals can only do what the people want , when you want someone out of office , you remove them , not whine on internet forums .
Here are some cheerful ups to the above issues.1 .
Walmart has some cheap ass stuff</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Americans need to come to a realization that their country is failing apart.
It's not a bad thing, it is just a course of natural history.
No other country had what America had and no other country grew so fast like America did.
After it is all said and done, a diplomatic-social-capitalist-etc big goverment just doesn't work.You're governments (both state and fed) are spending more money then they are pulling in.
Eventually your infrastructure is going to go bankrupt and you're beyond the fixing point.
So be prepared for change, the areas of infrastructure are already failing and are beginning to take hold.1.
Power is getting more expensive2.
Oil is getting more expensive3.
Education infrastructure is dropping4.
Highway and road infrastructure is dropping5.
Cost of living is rising faster then the economy can support6.
Taxes are raising higher then the avg incoming + COL can support7.
Almost all fortune 800 companies are offshoring8.
Cost of healthcare is rising9.
Number of people requiring healthcare is rising10.
Number of people becoming 100\% dependant of socialized support is rising11.
Number of states increasing local taxes and asking for federal support is rising12.
Avg salary for americans is between 20-35,000$ a year13.
Number of college applications is dropping14.
Crime rate is rising15.
Drug and Substance abuse is rising16.
Number of AIDs and Cancer cases are risingand I could go on, I'm not saying it isn't any better anywhere else in the world, but a shift is coming and it would be wise to pay attention and even more so to do action.
Government officals can only do what the people want, when you want someone out of office, you remove them, not whine on internet forums.
Here are some cheerful ups to the above issues.1.
Walmart has some cheap ass stuff</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339081</id>
	<title>No, you will never have to worry about this.</title>
	<author>Sophacles</author>
	<datestamp>1245097320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These roads are rural. Not in the city. Lots of people seem to think this will make life dangerous for people, or cause more expense in maintenance since the cars will wear them out faster, and on and on. Seems to me one major point is being missed: My driveway probably sees more traffic/day than these roads, and I don't even own a car.  There are lots of roads out in rural farm country that are used for 2 reasons:</p><p>1. Shortcut when the weather is nice, since these roads don't get plowed anyway. Those taking the shortcut are driving pickup trucks, no exceptions.</p><p>2. Tractors, combines, and similar heavy equipment. They go from field to field on these back roads. It prevents farmers from having to drive over each others' crops to get to uncontigous fields. It also reduces the impact on fields, allowing for minimal driving over them (surprisingly important when it comes to field yield).</p><p>Neither of the above really requires a paved road.  Stop acting like it's the end of the world. Ever since I got to know some farmers, and how this works, I've been wondering why a lot of roads are paved in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These roads are rural .
Not in the city .
Lots of people seem to think this will make life dangerous for people , or cause more expense in maintenance since the cars will wear them out faster , and on and on .
Seems to me one major point is being missed : My driveway probably sees more traffic/day than these roads , and I do n't even own a car .
There are lots of roads out in rural farm country that are used for 2 reasons : 1 .
Shortcut when the weather is nice , since these roads do n't get plowed anyway .
Those taking the shortcut are driving pickup trucks , no exceptions.2 .
Tractors , combines , and similar heavy equipment .
They go from field to field on these back roads .
It prevents farmers from having to drive over each others ' crops to get to uncontigous fields .
It also reduces the impact on fields , allowing for minimal driving over them ( surprisingly important when it comes to field yield ) .Neither of the above really requires a paved road .
Stop acting like it 's the end of the world .
Ever since I got to know some farmers , and how this works , I 've been wondering why a lot of roads are paved in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These roads are rural.
Not in the city.
Lots of people seem to think this will make life dangerous for people, or cause more expense in maintenance since the cars will wear them out faster, and on and on.
Seems to me one major point is being missed: My driveway probably sees more traffic/day than these roads, and I don't even own a car.
There are lots of roads out in rural farm country that are used for 2 reasons:1.
Shortcut when the weather is nice, since these roads don't get plowed anyway.
Those taking the shortcut are driving pickup trucks, no exceptions.2.
Tractors, combines, and similar heavy equipment.
They go from field to field on these back roads.
It prevents farmers from having to drive over each others' crops to get to uncontigous fields.
It also reduces the impact on fields, allowing for minimal driving over them (surprisingly important when it comes to field yield).Neither of the above really requires a paved road.
Stop acting like it's the end of the world.
Ever since I got to know some farmers, and how this works, I've been wondering why a lot of roads are paved in the first place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</id>
	<title>Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Jah-Wren Ryel</author>
	<datestamp>1245095640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its been well over a decade, but I recall seeing an episode of NOVA on PBS about road construction in the US and how hopelessly behind the curve we were.  Their analysis was that our problems stem from corruption in the industry.  That road construction companies are buddies with the various local politicians so that they are able to get contracts that don't require them to modernize.  The end result being that our roads deteriorate much faster than they do in places like Europe, requiring much more frequent repair work for higher prices.  Maybe things have changed in the intervening decade, but I doubt it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its been well over a decade , but I recall seeing an episode of NOVA on PBS about road construction in the US and how hopelessly behind the curve we were .
Their analysis was that our problems stem from corruption in the industry .
That road construction companies are buddies with the various local politicians so that they are able to get contracts that do n't require them to modernize .
The end result being that our roads deteriorate much faster than they do in places like Europe , requiring much more frequent repair work for higher prices .
Maybe things have changed in the intervening decade , but I doubt it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its been well over a decade, but I recall seeing an episode of NOVA on PBS about road construction in the US and how hopelessly behind the curve we were.
Their analysis was that our problems stem from corruption in the industry.
That road construction companies are buddies with the various local politicians so that they are able to get contracts that don't require them to modernize.
The end result being that our roads deteriorate much faster than they do in places like Europe, requiring much more frequent repair work for higher prices.
Maybe things have changed in the intervening decade, but I doubt it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340125</id>
	<title>Re:Gravel Roads are great - just ask West Virginia</title>
	<author>wile\_e8</author>
	<datestamp>1245058020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This article isn't talking about the types of of roads that are used to support commerce and industry.  These are rural roads in BFE that are rarely used by anyone other than local residents.  And these gravel roads are in better condition that the pothole-filled "paved" roads anyway.  All the major roads that support commerce and industry will still be paved.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This article is n't talking about the types of of roads that are used to support commerce and industry .
These are rural roads in BFE that are rarely used by anyone other than local residents .
And these gravel roads are in better condition that the pothole-filled " paved " roads anyway .
All the major roads that support commerce and industry will still be paved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This article isn't talking about the types of of roads that are used to support commerce and industry.
These are rural roads in BFE that are rarely used by anyone other than local residents.
And these gravel roads are in better condition that the pothole-filled "paved" roads anyway.
All the major roads that support commerce and industry will still be paved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338499</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342087</id>
	<title>Wealth Transfer......</title>
	<author>jwhitener</author>
	<datestamp>1245068040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"That's why I'm a big proponent of doing our best to avoid unwarranted wealth transfers to areas that do not generate wealth......The problem is mostly politics, and that's why, in the long run socialized programs will fail."</p><p>And the problem with arguments like this, is that they almost universally fail to account for the cost to society of not having that 'socialized' program, especially when you add in moral obligations that society has deemed necessary to be considered a civilized nation.</p><p>For instance, tax payer money funding programs built from research here: <a href="http://www.nectac.org/topics/quality/effective.asp#longterm" title="nectac.org">http://www.nectac.org/topics/quality/effective.asp#longterm</a> [nectac.org] in an inner city where parents would not be able to afford pre-school by themselves.</p><p>How many children will grow up to become productive with the program or without?<br>How many children will avoid joining gangs saving prison money/lives?</p><p>There are tons of studies showing that in some cases, preventative social programs, preventative healthcare, etc.. saves society tax money in the long term.</p><p>But usually people are so short sighted, that they say things like "wealth transfer", not realizing that they are saving money in the long term. I know the exact news sources and philosophies that you subscribe to because you used the term 'wealth transfer' (My father is firmly in your right wing viewpoint).  It is a loaded term that seeks to distort the reality that social programs can and do save society money, and raise our overall prosperity.</p><p>And saying "why I'm a big proponent of doing our best to avoid unwarranted wealth transfers to areas that do not generate wealth" completely ignores any moral obligations.</p><p>The hospital that I worked for had to, by law, care for any seriously sick or injured person regardless of their ability to pay.  That "wealth transfer" from the hospital into a service for someone with no money, was deemed morally correct, enough so that it became law.</p><p>That hospital, and my job, disappeared due to the large amounts of illegal aliens and/or poor folks that knew that going to an emergency room, having waited until they were very sick = free healthcare.</p><p>If instead, we had provided preventative healthcare for free to those illegal aliens/and or poor people, and offered other free healthcares, the overall cost to provide service to those people would be LOWER.</p><p>That means I would still have my job, and the hospital supporting 4,000 employees would have still been in business.</p><p>That is a micro example of course, but extend that to the entire healthcare system as a whole, and you can see the impact it can have on America.</p><p>We've been slipping in terms of education compared with other European countries for quite a while now.  Would you consider tax payer money used to provide teachers a "wealth transfer" to those that cannot afford private tutors?  Most likely not.  We know that having an uneducated population is bad for everyone.  Why can you not see other, proven, socialized programs in the same light?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" That 's why I 'm a big proponent of doing our best to avoid unwarranted wealth transfers to areas that do not generate wealth......The problem is mostly politics , and that 's why , in the long run socialized programs will fail .
" And the problem with arguments like this , is that they almost universally fail to account for the cost to society of not having that 'socialized ' program , especially when you add in moral obligations that society has deemed necessary to be considered a civilized nation.For instance , tax payer money funding programs built from research here : http : //www.nectac.org/topics/quality/effective.asp # longterm [ nectac.org ] in an inner city where parents would not be able to afford pre-school by themselves.How many children will grow up to become productive with the program or without ? How many children will avoid joining gangs saving prison money/lives ? There are tons of studies showing that in some cases , preventative social programs , preventative healthcare , etc.. saves society tax money in the long term.But usually people are so short sighted , that they say things like " wealth transfer " , not realizing that they are saving money in the long term .
I know the exact news sources and philosophies that you subscribe to because you used the term 'wealth transfer ' ( My father is firmly in your right wing viewpoint ) .
It is a loaded term that seeks to distort the reality that social programs can and do save society money , and raise our overall prosperity.And saying " why I 'm a big proponent of doing our best to avoid unwarranted wealth transfers to areas that do not generate wealth " completely ignores any moral obligations.The hospital that I worked for had to , by law , care for any seriously sick or injured person regardless of their ability to pay .
That " wealth transfer " from the hospital into a service for someone with no money , was deemed morally correct , enough so that it became law.That hospital , and my job , disappeared due to the large amounts of illegal aliens and/or poor folks that knew that going to an emergency room , having waited until they were very sick = free healthcare.If instead , we had provided preventative healthcare for free to those illegal aliens/and or poor people , and offered other free healthcares , the overall cost to provide service to those people would be LOWER.That means I would still have my job , and the hospital supporting 4,000 employees would have still been in business.That is a micro example of course , but extend that to the entire healthcare system as a whole , and you can see the impact it can have on America.We 've been slipping in terms of education compared with other European countries for quite a while now .
Would you consider tax payer money used to provide teachers a " wealth transfer " to those that can not afford private tutors ?
Most likely not .
We know that having an uneducated population is bad for everyone .
Why can you not see other , proven , socialized programs in the same light ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"That's why I'm a big proponent of doing our best to avoid unwarranted wealth transfers to areas that do not generate wealth......The problem is mostly politics, and that's why, in the long run socialized programs will fail.
"And the problem with arguments like this, is that they almost universally fail to account for the cost to society of not having that 'socialized' program, especially when you add in moral obligations that society has deemed necessary to be considered a civilized nation.For instance, tax payer money funding programs built from research here: http://www.nectac.org/topics/quality/effective.asp#longterm [nectac.org] in an inner city where parents would not be able to afford pre-school by themselves.How many children will grow up to become productive with the program or without?How many children will avoid joining gangs saving prison money/lives?There are tons of studies showing that in some cases, preventative social programs, preventative healthcare, etc.. saves society tax money in the long term.But usually people are so short sighted, that they say things like "wealth transfer", not realizing that they are saving money in the long term.
I know the exact news sources and philosophies that you subscribe to because you used the term 'wealth transfer' (My father is firmly in your right wing viewpoint).
It is a loaded term that seeks to distort the reality that social programs can and do save society money, and raise our overall prosperity.And saying "why I'm a big proponent of doing our best to avoid unwarranted wealth transfers to areas that do not generate wealth" completely ignores any moral obligations.The hospital that I worked for had to, by law, care for any seriously sick or injured person regardless of their ability to pay.
That "wealth transfer" from the hospital into a service for someone with no money, was deemed morally correct, enough so that it became law.That hospital, and my job, disappeared due to the large amounts of illegal aliens and/or poor folks that knew that going to an emergency room, having waited until they were very sick = free healthcare.If instead, we had provided preventative healthcare for free to those illegal aliens/and or poor people, and offered other free healthcares, the overall cost to provide service to those people would be LOWER.That means I would still have my job, and the hospital supporting 4,000 employees would have still been in business.That is a micro example of course, but extend that to the entire healthcare system as a whole, and you can see the impact it can have on America.We've been slipping in terms of education compared with other European countries for quite a while now.
Would you consider tax payer money used to provide teachers a "wealth transfer" to those that cannot afford private tutors?
Most likely not.
We know that having an uneducated population is bad for everyone.
Why can you not see other, proven, socialized programs in the same light?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339735</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28339537</id>
	<title>Who needs roads?</title>
	<author>prefec2</author>
	<datestamp>1245099000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who needs roads when there is no gasoline to power your car? And don't think the electric car is an alternative, we will be out of copper very soon and there is no real replacement available. In the light of these facts the removal of roads is only consequent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who needs roads when there is no gasoline to power your car ?
And do n't think the electric car is an alternative , we will be out of copper very soon and there is no real replacement available .
In the light of these facts the removal of roads is only consequent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who needs roads when there is no gasoline to power your car?
And don't think the electric car is an alternative, we will be out of copper very soon and there is no real replacement available.
In the light of these facts the removal of roads is only consequent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28340239</id>
	<title>We've seen this before......</title>
	<author>Vinegar Joe</author>
	<datestamp>1245058380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And it didn't turn out too pretty. Read Bryan Ward-Perkins' "The Fall Of Rome and The End Of Civilization"......</p><p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Fall-Rome-End-Civilization/dp/0192807285" title="amazon.com">http://www.amazon.com/Fall-Rome-End-Civilization/dp/0192807285</a> [amazon.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And it did n't turn out too pretty .
Read Bryan Ward-Perkins ' " The Fall Of Rome and The End Of Civilization " ......http : //www.amazon.com/Fall-Rome-End-Civilization/dp/0192807285 [ amazon.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And it didn't turn out too pretty.
Read Bryan Ward-Perkins' "The Fall Of Rome and The End Of Civilization"......http://www.amazon.com/Fall-Rome-End-Civilization/dp/0192807285 [amazon.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28380529</id>
	<title>Re:Michigan is fucked</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245319140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Now is is SUV country.  Seen green trees with a non-green gas guzzler!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now is is SUV country .
Seen green trees with a non-green gas guzzler !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now is is SUV country.
Seen green trees with a non-green gas guzzler!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338311</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28342761</id>
	<title>Re:Extremely Sensible</title>
	<author>DigiShaman</author>
	<datestamp>1245072780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to mention the drop it fuel mileage gravel provides over concrete along with the above mentioned vehicle wear/tear and road maintenance. Any environmentalist worth their salt would be in favor of concrete over that of gravel and asphalt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention the drop it fuel mileage gravel provides over concrete along with the above mentioned vehicle wear/tear and road maintenance .
Any environmentalist worth their salt would be in favor of concrete over that of gravel and asphalt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention the drop it fuel mileage gravel provides over concrete along with the above mentioned vehicle wear/tear and road maintenance.
Any environmentalist worth their salt would be in favor of concrete over that of gravel and asphalt.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338769</id>
	<title>Re:Why is it $100K per mile in the first place?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245096360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder just to what extend conservative politics, the good 'ol boys network, and lack of accountability and transparency feed upon each other.  I know that the US is a model for the world in terms of democracy, but wonder if transparency and anti-corruption safeguards have kept up with the rest of the developed world.</p><p>The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and in most states of Australia, there exists a carefully designed system of anti-corruption watchdogs, whose job it is to keep an eye out for public-sector corruption.  And it's needed too, because a major police corruption scandal seems to break every seven years or so.  They are definitely needed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder just to what extend conservative politics , the good 'ol boys network , and lack of accountability and transparency feed upon each other .
I know that the US is a model for the world in terms of democracy , but wonder if transparency and anti-corruption safeguards have kept up with the rest of the developed world.The price of freedom is eternal vigilance , and in most states of Australia , there exists a carefully designed system of anti-corruption watchdogs , whose job it is to keep an eye out for public-sector corruption .
And it 's needed too , because a major police corruption scandal seems to break every seven years or so .
They are definitely needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder just to what extend conservative politics, the good 'ol boys network, and lack of accountability and transparency feed upon each other.
I know that the US is a model for the world in terms of democracy, but wonder if transparency and anti-corruption safeguards have kept up with the rest of the developed world.The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and in most states of Australia, there exists a carefully designed system of anti-corruption watchdogs, whose job it is to keep an eye out for public-sector corruption.
And it's needed too, because a major police corruption scandal seems to break every seven years or so.
They are definitely needed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_15_1641219.28338543</parent>
</comment>
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