<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_14_2143205</id>
	<title>Better Tools For Disabled Geeks?</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1244990220000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="mailto:ynotlayabout@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">layabout</a> writes <i>"We've seen tremendous advances in user interfaces over the past few years. Unfortunately, those UIs and supporting infrastructure exclude the disabled. In the same timeframe there has been virtually no advance in accessibility capabilities. It's the same old sticky keys, unicorn stick, speech recognition, text-to-speech that kind-of, sort-of, works except when you need to work with with real applications. Depending on whose numbers you use, anywhere from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year &mdash; some temporarily, some permanently. In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing and using many if not all mobile computing devices. My question to Slashdot: Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable, what's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled? By spending time now building the interfaces and tools that will enable them to use computers more easily, you will also be ensuring your own ability to use them in the future."</i> Follow the link for more background on this reader's query.</htmltext>
<tokenext>layabout writes " We 've seen tremendous advances in user interfaces over the past few years .
Unfortunately , those UIs and supporting infrastructure exclude the disabled .
In the same timeframe there has been virtually no advance in accessibility capabilities .
It 's the same old sticky keys , unicorn stick , speech recognition , text-to-speech that kind-of , sort-of , works except when you need to work with with real applications .
Depending on whose numbers you use , anywhere from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year    some temporarily , some permanently .
In time , almost 100 \ % of keyboard users will have trouble typing and using many if not all mobile computing devices .
My question to Slashdot : Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable , what 's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled ?
By spending time now building the interfaces and tools that will enable them to use computers more easily , you will also be ensuring your own ability to use them in the future .
" Follow the link for more background on this reader 's query .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>layabout writes "We've seen tremendous advances in user interfaces over the past few years.
Unfortunately, those UIs and supporting infrastructure exclude the disabled.
In the same timeframe there has been virtually no advance in accessibility capabilities.
It's the same old sticky keys, unicorn stick, speech recognition, text-to-speech that kind-of, sort-of, works except when you need to work with with real applications.
Depending on whose numbers you use, anywhere from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year — some temporarily, some permanently.
In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing and using many if not all mobile computing devices.
My question to Slashdot: Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable, what's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled?
By spending time now building the interfaces and tools that will enable them to use computers more easily, you will also be ensuring your own ability to use them in the future.
" Follow the link for more background on this reader's query.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331195</id>
	<title>Cite please</title>
	<author>HotNeedleOfInquiry</author>
	<datestamp>1244994180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Depending on whose numbers you use, anywhere from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year &#226;" some temporarily, some permanently. In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing"

Cite please?</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Depending on whose numbers you use , anywhere from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year   " some temporarily , some permanently .
In time , almost 100 \ % of keyboard users will have trouble typing " Cite please ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Depending on whose numbers you use, anywhere from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year â" some temporarily, some permanently.
In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing"

Cite please?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332179</id>
	<title>Re:Time, money, expertiese</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245004920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can create a market where none existed.  It's been done over and over.  Your argument is fine.  No clients = no invoices = no payroll.  Understood.</p><p>But the real issue is that is NOT REQUIRED BY LAW.  If ADA-compliant computer accessibility were required by law (i.e. if you get sued or fined for not doing it or the FTC could pull your product from the shelf/forbid you to sell it, or government agencies couldn't buy it because it's not section 508 compliant) then and really only then will it get done.  The same thing happened with wheel-chair ramps back when ADA first passed.  People made the same arguments as you: I'm not disabled, my employees/customers aren't either, it will cost $$$, why should I, etc.  After the ramps went in, businesses learned the reason they never got customers in wheelchairs is because they were housebound, knowing full well they'd never be able to wheel up the stairs and thru the weighted steel &amp; glass front door.  But now that they can, they do.  We get disabled customers coming in their motorized chair, about 1 every other day.</p><p>That's why we have flash-only websites and AJAX garbage that makes accessibility almost impossible: because they can.  There's no law that says they have to.  Only the web sites of government agencies themselves fall under section 508.  The government doesn't want to "stifle innovation" or "interfere with the free market" or whatever their lobbyists pay them to say.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can create a market where none existed .
It 's been done over and over .
Your argument is fine .
No clients = no invoices = no payroll .
Understood.But the real issue is that is NOT REQUIRED BY LAW .
If ADA-compliant computer accessibility were required by law ( i.e .
if you get sued or fined for not doing it or the FTC could pull your product from the shelf/forbid you to sell it , or government agencies could n't buy it because it 's not section 508 compliant ) then and really only then will it get done .
The same thing happened with wheel-chair ramps back when ADA first passed .
People made the same arguments as you : I 'm not disabled , my employees/customers are n't either , it will cost $ $ $ , why should I , etc .
After the ramps went in , businesses learned the reason they never got customers in wheelchairs is because they were housebound , knowing full well they 'd never be able to wheel up the stairs and thru the weighted steel &amp; glass front door .
But now that they can , they do .
We get disabled customers coming in their motorized chair , about 1 every other day.That 's why we have flash-only websites and AJAX garbage that makes accessibility almost impossible : because they can .
There 's no law that says they have to .
Only the web sites of government agencies themselves fall under section 508 .
The government does n't want to " stifle innovation " or " interfere with the free market " or whatever their lobbyists pay them to say .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can create a market where none existed.
It's been done over and over.
Your argument is fine.
No clients = no invoices = no payroll.
Understood.But the real issue is that is NOT REQUIRED BY LAW.
If ADA-compliant computer accessibility were required by law (i.e.
if you get sued or fined for not doing it or the FTC could pull your product from the shelf/forbid you to sell it, or government agencies couldn't buy it because it's not section 508 compliant) then and really only then will it get done.
The same thing happened with wheel-chair ramps back when ADA first passed.
People made the same arguments as you: I'm not disabled, my employees/customers aren't either, it will cost $$$, why should I, etc.
After the ramps went in, businesses learned the reason they never got customers in wheelchairs is because they were housebound, knowing full well they'd never be able to wheel up the stairs and thru the weighted steel &amp; glass front door.
But now that they can, they do.
We get disabled customers coming in their motorized chair, about 1 every other day.That's why we have flash-only websites and AJAX garbage that makes accessibility almost impossible: because they can.
There's no law that says they have to.
Only the web sites of government agencies themselves fall under section 508.
The government doesn't want to "stifle innovation" or "interfere with the free market" or whatever their lobbyists pay them to say.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331415</id>
	<title>Re:Get ready</title>
	<author>RuBLed</author>
	<datestamp>1244996040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In time, all 100\% of users will die. Should we start buying coffins?</p></div></blockquote><p>
not 100\% though... you see, I'm planning to buy a big box, go inside along with a device that releases / exposes a radioactive material based on a randomly-timed trigger.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In time , all 100 \ % of users will die .
Should we start buying coffins ?
not 100 \ % though... you see , I 'm planning to buy a big box , go inside along with a device that releases / exposes a radioactive material based on a randomly-timed trigger .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In time, all 100\% of users will die.
Should we start buying coffins?
not 100\% though... you see, I'm planning to buy a big box, go inside along with a device that releases / exposes a radioactive material based on a randomly-timed trigger.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331265</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331371</id>
	<title>Re:Get ready</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244995620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you planning on living with your problem of being dead?  Didn't think so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you planning on living with your problem of being dead ?
Did n't think so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you planning on living with your problem of being dead?
Didn't think so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331265</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333949</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>laejoh</author>
	<datestamp>1245073140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Indeed... According to this graph we have to doubt his <a href="http://xkcd.com/369/" title="xkcd.com" rel="nofollow">numbers</a> [xkcd.com]...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed... According to this graph we have to doubt his numbers [ xkcd.com ] .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed... According to this graph we have to doubt his numbers [xkcd.com]...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331195</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332785</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1245099480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Being that computers have been heavily in the workplace for say over 20 years, and typewriters for even longer, I'd say the warning should be taken just as seriously</p></div></blockquote><p>The article said X number of keyboard users become disabled every year.  It did not say X number of keyboard users become disabled <i>as a direct result of using said keyboard.</i>  Nice rant though.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Being that computers have been heavily in the workplace for say over 20 years , and typewriters for even longer , I 'd say the warning should be taken just as seriouslyThe article said X number of keyboard users become disabled every year .
It did not say X number of keyboard users become disabled as a direct result of using said keyboard .
Nice rant though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being that computers have been heavily in the workplace for say over 20 years, and typewriters for even longer, I'd say the warning should be taken just as seriouslyThe article said X number of keyboard users become disabled every year.
It did not say X number of keyboard users become disabled as a direct result of using said keyboard.
Nice rant though.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331361</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>GrpA</author>
	<datestamp>1244995560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe <a href="http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death" title="http">this Wikipedia article </a> [http] covers that final statistic...</p><p>Or there's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old\_age" title="wikipedia.org">this explanation</a> [wikipedia.org] to cover the period up until then.</p><p>GrpA</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe this Wikipedia article [ http ] covers that final statistic...Or there 's this explanation [ wikipedia.org ] to cover the period up until then.GrpA</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe this Wikipedia article  [http] covers that final statistic...Or there's this explanation [wikipedia.org] to cover the period up until then.GrpA</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331195</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28334629</id>
	<title>Re:Change the system</title>
	<author>ratboy666</author>
	<datestamp>1245078060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're just a bit late -- MVC. Note that MVC is not considered the best approach to the problem, but it was conceived when the first Smalltalk systems were created (in the 1972 - 1980 time frame).</p><p>MVC: Model/Viewer/Controller</p><p>The Model contains the specific application class(es). The Viewer queries the Model, and displays the state of the application (as appropriate). The Model can also "broadcast" to Viewer (generally, the Viewer registers an interest in updates to the Model). There may be multiple Viewers for a single Model.</p><p>The Controller supplies new data to the Model. Again, there may be multiple Controllers.</p><p>As to implementation: the Model should not have any concept of "UI". It should accept commands from the Controller, and be able to broadcast state changes that MAY be of interest. It should also support a query interface.</p><p>There should not be ANY "mutable" objects in the controller, and only "cache" objects (if REALLY needed) in the Viewer.</p><p>To continue with your example of an editor. The Model is the editor. It accepts commands, and perhaps has the idea of a "point". The "point" is probably going to be maintained as an association between the Model and a particular registered Viewer, because there may be multiple Viewers, and we would like each of these to have an independent "point". If the GUI informs the Viewer that a redraw is needed, the Viewer retrieves the needed information from the Model. If the editor is NOT using a GUI, the Viewer may well just be retrieving and displaying lines.</p><p>MVC Failure?</p><p>GUI programming environments (exemplified by early Visual Basic), made it easy to create UI elements and attach or modify code snippets associated with actions on those elements. This can result in rapid prototyping of applications, but completely loses the distinction between M, V and C. The Controller no longer exists outside of the Viewer -- it is directly bound into the Viewer. Since "normal" constructs in the programming language did not respond to messages (that is, an ARRAY did not respect the messaging protocol), it was easier to store application state in visible, and sometimes, invisible elements, that eliminating any distinction between Viewer and Model. Thus, it was not convenient to consider MVC as a design (except in name only).</p><p>Of course, the eventual loss is that these applications can no longer be easily modified for other UIs, including disability provisions. Note that a "general purpose" platform can only suggest a MVC methodology. If this was FORCED by the platform, the platform would be quite restrictive. Because of this, current platforms did NOT enforce the paradigm, and the lossage was allowed to occur.</p><p>(An Exercise left to the Reader: Compare and contrast MVC history to Web Browser history, with an emphasis on available development tools. How did the available Web development tools influence the direction of HTML?).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're just a bit late -- MVC .
Note that MVC is not considered the best approach to the problem , but it was conceived when the first Smalltalk systems were created ( in the 1972 - 1980 time frame ) .MVC : Model/Viewer/ControllerThe Model contains the specific application class ( es ) .
The Viewer queries the Model , and displays the state of the application ( as appropriate ) .
The Model can also " broadcast " to Viewer ( generally , the Viewer registers an interest in updates to the Model ) .
There may be multiple Viewers for a single Model.The Controller supplies new data to the Model .
Again , there may be multiple Controllers.As to implementation : the Model should not have any concept of " UI " .
It should accept commands from the Controller , and be able to broadcast state changes that MAY be of interest .
It should also support a query interface.There should not be ANY " mutable " objects in the controller , and only " cache " objects ( if REALLY needed ) in the Viewer.To continue with your example of an editor .
The Model is the editor .
It accepts commands , and perhaps has the idea of a " point " .
The " point " is probably going to be maintained as an association between the Model and a particular registered Viewer , because there may be multiple Viewers , and we would like each of these to have an independent " point " .
If the GUI informs the Viewer that a redraw is needed , the Viewer retrieves the needed information from the Model .
If the editor is NOT using a GUI , the Viewer may well just be retrieving and displaying lines.MVC Failure ? GUI programming environments ( exemplified by early Visual Basic ) , made it easy to create UI elements and attach or modify code snippets associated with actions on those elements .
This can result in rapid prototyping of applications , but completely loses the distinction between M , V and C. The Controller no longer exists outside of the Viewer -- it is directly bound into the Viewer .
Since " normal " constructs in the programming language did not respond to messages ( that is , an ARRAY did not respect the messaging protocol ) , it was easier to store application state in visible , and sometimes , invisible elements , that eliminating any distinction between Viewer and Model .
Thus , it was not convenient to consider MVC as a design ( except in name only ) .Of course , the eventual loss is that these applications can no longer be easily modified for other UIs , including disability provisions .
Note that a " general purpose " platform can only suggest a MVC methodology .
If this was FORCED by the platform , the platform would be quite restrictive .
Because of this , current platforms did NOT enforce the paradigm , and the lossage was allowed to occur .
( An Exercise left to the Reader : Compare and contrast MVC history to Web Browser history , with an emphasis on available development tools .
How did the available Web development tools influence the direction of HTML ?
) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're just a bit late -- MVC.
Note that MVC is not considered the best approach to the problem, but it was conceived when the first Smalltalk systems were created (in the 1972 - 1980 time frame).MVC: Model/Viewer/ControllerThe Model contains the specific application class(es).
The Viewer queries the Model, and displays the state of the application (as appropriate).
The Model can also "broadcast" to Viewer (generally, the Viewer registers an interest in updates to the Model).
There may be multiple Viewers for a single Model.The Controller supplies new data to the Model.
Again, there may be multiple Controllers.As to implementation: the Model should not have any concept of "UI".
It should accept commands from the Controller, and be able to broadcast state changes that MAY be of interest.
It should also support a query interface.There should not be ANY "mutable" objects in the controller, and only "cache" objects (if REALLY needed) in the Viewer.To continue with your example of an editor.
The Model is the editor.
It accepts commands, and perhaps has the idea of a "point".
The "point" is probably going to be maintained as an association between the Model and a particular registered Viewer, because there may be multiple Viewers, and we would like each of these to have an independent "point".
If the GUI informs the Viewer that a redraw is needed, the Viewer retrieves the needed information from the Model.
If the editor is NOT using a GUI, the Viewer may well just be retrieving and displaying lines.MVC Failure?GUI programming environments (exemplified by early Visual Basic), made it easy to create UI elements and attach or modify code snippets associated with actions on those elements.
This can result in rapid prototyping of applications, but completely loses the distinction between M, V and C. The Controller no longer exists outside of the Viewer -- it is directly bound into the Viewer.
Since "normal" constructs in the programming language did not respond to messages (that is, an ARRAY did not respect the messaging protocol), it was easier to store application state in visible, and sometimes, invisible elements, that eliminating any distinction between Viewer and Model.
Thus, it was not convenient to consider MVC as a design (except in name only).Of course, the eventual loss is that these applications can no longer be easily modified for other UIs, including disability provisions.
Note that a "general purpose" platform can only suggest a MVC methodology.
If this was FORCED by the platform, the platform would be quite restrictive.
Because of this, current platforms did NOT enforce the paradigm, and the lossage was allowed to occur.
(An Exercise left to the Reader: Compare and contrast MVC history to Web Browser history, with an emphasis on available development tools.
How did the available Web development tools influence the direction of HTML?
).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332305</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331217</id>
	<title>Apple - I hate you!</title>
	<author>Col Bat Guano</author>
	<datestamp>1244994360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I lost a fingertip in an encounter with a circular saw.</p><p>Later I bought an iPhone, and the documentation was titled "Fingertips".</p><p>I've also used a fingerprint reader to try to log into a friend's computer - it said "too short", so I can't blame SteveJ for everything.</p><p>I do hope that multi touch input does consider people who have less than full dexterity/digits, but somehow I suspect there are another class of people waiting to be left behind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I lost a fingertip in an encounter with a circular saw.Later I bought an iPhone , and the documentation was titled " Fingertips " .I 've also used a fingerprint reader to try to log into a friend 's computer - it said " too short " , so I ca n't blame SteveJ for everything.I do hope that multi touch input does consider people who have less than full dexterity/digits , but somehow I suspect there are another class of people waiting to be left behind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I lost a fingertip in an encounter with a circular saw.Later I bought an iPhone, and the documentation was titled "Fingertips".I've also used a fingerprint reader to try to log into a friend's computer - it said "too short", so I can't blame SteveJ for everything.I do hope that multi touch input does consider people who have less than full dexterity/digits, but somehow I suspect there are another class of people waiting to be left behind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332263</id>
	<title>Re:Cold Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245006060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No.  The \% of elderly in the worlds demographics is going up up up.  And while health is improving into early old age, eventually the body begins to fail, first one part and then another.  So the demand will be there.  And soon.  If you outlive your youth, it will happen to you too.  It's just a matter of time.</p><p>Both MacOS and Windows have accessibility built-in.  I don't think either is about "diminishing returns".  Accessibility is HARD.  If it were easy, disability access would be implemented six ways to Sunday in every OS and app, closed-source and free.  That's why SourceForge is filled with apps that are easy to write: text-editors, programming languages, libraries, games, CD/Book cataloging apps, etc.   Apps that solve hard problems (like drivers or OCR or science applications) are hard to get right, so few get started and fewer ever finish.</p><p>If someone can come up with a way to make the problem EASY TO SOLVE then accessibility will become easy to add to OSes and apps, and it will get done.  Just imagine: controlling emacs or vi with your voice because your hands don't work due to birth defects.  What's the difference between holding the control key and saying "control" to type the text?  Imaging trying to write an essay on "Metaphysics" in emacs without false positives of it thinking you're trying to invoke meta-key commands.  Good times...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
The \ % of elderly in the worlds demographics is going up up up .
And while health is improving into early old age , eventually the body begins to fail , first one part and then another .
So the demand will be there .
And soon .
If you outlive your youth , it will happen to you too .
It 's just a matter of time.Both MacOS and Windows have accessibility built-in .
I do n't think either is about " diminishing returns " .
Accessibility is HARD .
If it were easy , disability access would be implemented six ways to Sunday in every OS and app , closed-source and free .
That 's why SourceForge is filled with apps that are easy to write : text-editors , programming languages , libraries , games , CD/Book cataloging apps , etc .
Apps that solve hard problems ( like drivers or OCR or science applications ) are hard to get right , so few get started and fewer ever finish.If someone can come up with a way to make the problem EASY TO SOLVE then accessibility will become easy to add to OSes and apps , and it will get done .
Just imagine : controlling emacs or vi with your voice because your hands do n't work due to birth defects .
What 's the difference between holding the control key and saying " control " to type the text ?
Imaging trying to write an essay on " Metaphysics " in emacs without false positives of it thinking you 're trying to invoke meta-key commands .
Good times.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
The \% of elderly in the worlds demographics is going up up up.
And while health is improving into early old age, eventually the body begins to fail, first one part and then another.
So the demand will be there.
And soon.
If you outlive your youth, it will happen to you too.
It's just a matter of time.Both MacOS and Windows have accessibility built-in.
I don't think either is about "diminishing returns".
Accessibility is HARD.
If it were easy, disability access would be implemented six ways to Sunday in every OS and app, closed-source and free.
That's why SourceForge is filled with apps that are easy to write: text-editors, programming languages, libraries, games, CD/Book cataloging apps, etc.
Apps that solve hard problems (like drivers or OCR or science applications) are hard to get right, so few get started and fewer ever finish.If someone can come up with a way to make the problem EASY TO SOLVE then accessibility will become easy to add to OSes and apps, and it will get done.
Just imagine: controlling emacs or vi with your voice because your hands don't work due to birth defects.
What's the difference between holding the control key and saying "control" to type the text?
Imaging trying to write an essay on "Metaphysics" in emacs without false positives of it thinking you're trying to invoke meta-key commands.
Good times...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331571</id>
	<title>When did you stop beating your wife?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244997420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable, what's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled?</p></div></blockquote><p> That's the equivalent of when did you stop beating your wife.  Everyone has their own lives &amp; interests - do not expect us to drop them to suddenly start developing accessible apps.</p><p>The answer is simple: people with serious forms of disability are in fact the minority.  Temporary disability is just that - temporary.  Time resolves that issue on its own.  Accessibility, as you seem to recognize given your unhappiness with speech recognition, is a difficult topic with actual expertise required.  Few OSS developers will have that or have picked it up.  The OSS community in general has issues trying to attract (&amp; keep) talented UI people to create usable interfaces for normal users, let alone those that are disabled, which I imagine would be even more difficult.</p><p>I'm not saying it's not a worthy goal - it is.  But there needs to be some direction &amp; an idea of what exactly makes something accessible.  Not to mention that disabilities are unique, meaning what is accessible for 1 person isn't necessarily for another.  Accessibility needs to come in at the toolkit layer &amp; make it easy for developers to provide the semantic information so that the toolkit can do what it needs to automatically.  Otherwise, you're essentially recreating the wheel every time you want to create an accessible app.</p><blockquote><div><p>In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing and using many if not all mobile computing devices.</p></div></blockquote><p> I have a seriously hard time believing this.  There are a lot of keyboard users out there - I think we'd hear if there was a sudden disability that was affecting everyone.  If you mean age-related issues, we may have to eventually face that.  However, the elderly do make up a tiny portion of the electronics-using population.  Then you also have to come to terms with that perhaps if you can't use the mobile device you have, maybe you should get one that better suits your needs.  My mom wants a Pre for instance - obviously it doesn't suit her for all sorts of reasons, top of which is that the text on the screen would be too small for her too use &amp; the keyboard keys too small as well.</p><p>Furthermore, whatever effort is put into accessibility will be for the average user surfing the web, accessing email, etc.  A disabled coder is too small a minority to target.  As you see, the only ones that appear to be putting in effort are for-pay products because it's a niche that requires non-programmer collaboration with programmers &amp; they can charge enough money to be profitable since the product becomes pretty necessary day-to-day for this niche.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable , what 's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled ?
That 's the equivalent of when did you stop beating your wife .
Everyone has their own lives &amp; interests - do not expect us to drop them to suddenly start developing accessible apps.The answer is simple : people with serious forms of disability are in fact the minority .
Temporary disability is just that - temporary .
Time resolves that issue on its own .
Accessibility , as you seem to recognize given your unhappiness with speech recognition , is a difficult topic with actual expertise required .
Few OSS developers will have that or have picked it up .
The OSS community in general has issues trying to attract ( &amp; keep ) talented UI people to create usable interfaces for normal users , let alone those that are disabled , which I imagine would be even more difficult.I 'm not saying it 's not a worthy goal - it is .
But there needs to be some direction &amp; an idea of what exactly makes something accessible .
Not to mention that disabilities are unique , meaning what is accessible for 1 person is n't necessarily for another .
Accessibility needs to come in at the toolkit layer &amp; make it easy for developers to provide the semantic information so that the toolkit can do what it needs to automatically .
Otherwise , you 're essentially recreating the wheel every time you want to create an accessible app.In time , almost 100 \ % of keyboard users will have trouble typing and using many if not all mobile computing devices .
I have a seriously hard time believing this .
There are a lot of keyboard users out there - I think we 'd hear if there was a sudden disability that was affecting everyone .
If you mean age-related issues , we may have to eventually face that .
However , the elderly do make up a tiny portion of the electronics-using population .
Then you also have to come to terms with that perhaps if you ca n't use the mobile device you have , maybe you should get one that better suits your needs .
My mom wants a Pre for instance - obviously it does n't suit her for all sorts of reasons , top of which is that the text on the screen would be too small for her too use &amp; the keyboard keys too small as well.Furthermore , whatever effort is put into accessibility will be for the average user surfing the web , accessing email , etc .
A disabled coder is too small a minority to target .
As you see , the only ones that appear to be putting in effort are for-pay products because it 's a niche that requires non-programmer collaboration with programmers &amp; they can charge enough money to be profitable since the product becomes pretty necessary day-to-day for this niche .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable, what's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled?
That's the equivalent of when did you stop beating your wife.
Everyone has their own lives &amp; interests - do not expect us to drop them to suddenly start developing accessible apps.The answer is simple: people with serious forms of disability are in fact the minority.
Temporary disability is just that - temporary.
Time resolves that issue on its own.
Accessibility, as you seem to recognize given your unhappiness with speech recognition, is a difficult topic with actual expertise required.
Few OSS developers will have that or have picked it up.
The OSS community in general has issues trying to attract (&amp; keep) talented UI people to create usable interfaces for normal users, let alone those that are disabled, which I imagine would be even more difficult.I'm not saying it's not a worthy goal - it is.
But there needs to be some direction &amp; an idea of what exactly makes something accessible.
Not to mention that disabilities are unique, meaning what is accessible for 1 person isn't necessarily for another.
Accessibility needs to come in at the toolkit layer &amp; make it easy for developers to provide the semantic information so that the toolkit can do what it needs to automatically.
Otherwise, you're essentially recreating the wheel every time you want to create an accessible app.In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing and using many if not all mobile computing devices.
I have a seriously hard time believing this.
There are a lot of keyboard users out there - I think we'd hear if there was a sudden disability that was affecting everyone.
If you mean age-related issues, we may have to eventually face that.
However, the elderly do make up a tiny portion of the electronics-using population.
Then you also have to come to terms with that perhaps if you can't use the mobile device you have, maybe you should get one that better suits your needs.
My mom wants a Pre for instance - obviously it doesn't suit her for all sorts of reasons, top of which is that the text on the screen would be too small for her too use &amp; the keyboard keys too small as well.Furthermore, whatever effort is put into accessibility will be for the average user surfing the web, accessing email, etc.
A disabled coder is too small a minority to target.
As you see, the only ones that appear to be putting in effort are for-pay products because it's a niche that requires non-programmer collaboration with programmers &amp; they can charge enough money to be profitable since the product becomes pretty necessary day-to-day for this niche.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28346541</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>beerbear</author>
	<datestamp>1245160740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Keyboard stress?  Bah.  There are a lot of worse pains you can suffer.</p></div><p>As a general rule, don't downplay other people's health problems, especially if you never had it yourself. People don't like it. <br>

And no, two days of one numb hand does not count as RSI.  <br>


Seriously. RSI is A LOT more than just pain in the hands, has a very diverse set of causes, affects the whole body, and causes a whole bag of other health problems, a lot of them psychological by nature. As an added bonus, everybody and his mom either thinks you are fake, because you don't look sick and the docs don't "find anything" (you gotta ask the right docs who know what to look for), or think you're a softie, or proposes a one-stop solution that doesn't even begin to address the complex issue that is RSI.

<br>

Been there, done that, got it more or less under control now (note: that is not the same as healed or pain free, but as good as it gets). But I really, really don't want to go there again.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Keyboard stress ?
Bah. There are a lot of worse pains you can suffer.As a general rule , do n't downplay other people 's health problems , especially if you never had it yourself .
People do n't like it .
And no , two days of one numb hand does not count as RSI .
Seriously. RSI is A LOT more than just pain in the hands , has a very diverse set of causes , affects the whole body , and causes a whole bag of other health problems , a lot of them psychological by nature .
As an added bonus , everybody and his mom either thinks you are fake , because you do n't look sick and the docs do n't " find anything " ( you got ta ask the right docs who know what to look for ) , or think you 're a softie , or proposes a one-stop solution that does n't even begin to address the complex issue that is RSI .
Been there , done that , got it more or less under control now ( note : that is not the same as healed or pain free , but as good as it gets ) .
But I really , really do n't want to go there again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keyboard stress?
Bah.  There are a lot of worse pains you can suffer.As a general rule, don't downplay other people's health problems, especially if you never had it yourself.
People don't like it.
And no, two days of one numb hand does not count as RSI.
Seriously. RSI is A LOT more than just pain in the hands, has a very diverse set of causes, affects the whole body, and causes a whole bag of other health problems, a lot of them psychological by nature.
As an added bonus, everybody and his mom either thinks you are fake, because you don't look sick and the docs don't "find anything" (you gotta ask the right docs who know what to look for), or think you're a softie, or proposes a one-stop solution that doesn't even begin to address the complex issue that is RSI.
Been there, done that, got it more or less under control now (note: that is not the same as healed or pain free, but as good as it gets).
But I really, really don't want to go there again.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331265</id>
	<title>Get ready</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244994720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing</p></div></blockquote><p>In time, all 100\% of users will die. Should we start buying coffins?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In time , almost 100 \ % of keyboard users will have trouble typingIn time , all 100 \ % of users will die .
Should we start buying coffins ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typingIn time, all 100\% of users will die.
Should we start buying coffins?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331585</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>JWSmythe</author>
	<datestamp>1244997540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; That's also assuming a fixed computer operator base, and not including in new additions (high school interns and recent graduates) and attrition to management (I don't send emails, my secretary does that for me) and retirement.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Being that computers have been heavily in the workplace for say over 20 years, and typewriters for even longer, I'd say the warning should be taken just as seriously as the OSHA training that you get (don't stand on top of a tippy ladder, on one foot, holding live wires, over a puddle while drinking hard liquor and smoking a joint) and the frequently included warning of repetitive stress disorder on keyboards and mice.  I particularly enjoyed one training where it was clear that we should go outside once an our and look at things far in the distance, to avoid eye strain.  Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I will admit, I have suffered pain from keyboards.  I couldn't grasp anything with my right hand for about 2 days because of typing too much.  (don't read anything dirty into that, please).  It was on a Friday, so I did almost everything left handed.   It was difficult to start my car, and shift gears (ya, I'm in America).  Oddly enough, most doorknobs are ambidextrous, and most toilets flush from the left side.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)  By Monday, the pain was gone.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I've suffered worse pain from working power tools and hammers.  Oddly enough, enough hammering will send some pretty good stress through your hands.  It hurts worse if you misjudge your finger to hammer head distance difference.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)  I haven't made that mistake in years.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Keyboard stress?  Bah.  There are a lot of worse pains you can suffer.  Unless you drop a server on your head (or have an unbolted rack fall on you), you haven't seen it.  I knew one guy who seriously hurt himself because they were moving an enclosed sever cabinet.  It started to fall.  The guy on one side couldn't do anything (it was falling away from him).  The guy on the other side tried to catch it by himself.  He lived.  He was hurt.  He was very much not happy.  He did say if it ever happened again, he'd jump out of the damned way.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I've learned over the years, lots of people don't know how to judge levels of pain, because they haven't experienced high levels of pain.  "Oh my god, this is the worst pain I've ever had" only means you haven't felt worse yet.  I've seen grown men cry over stuff that my little daughter (2 years old) shakes off like nothing happened.  She hurts herself and I tell her "that doesn't hurt", and she stops crying.  Really, it didn't.  She was walking barefooted in the house today, and accidentally closed an outside door on her toe.  I heard a little noise from her, but that was it.  She opened the door, removed her foot, and closed it again without the obstruction.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) It scraped the skin on her toe enough so I know it hurt a little (probably 2 on a scale of 1 to 10).  We washed it, doctored her up, and she ran off to play.  Later she pointed it out to me and said "owie."  She just wanted the attention of it, she wasn't really complaining.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; She takes after me though.  I've cut myself pretty bad in various ways over the years (I wasn't a gentle child), and doctored myself up without the need to whine about it.   No infection, no lost parts, no problem.</p><p>
&nbsp; I think my finger hurts from flipping people off.  Can I get workers comp and a voice operated home theater system?  I don't think I can work the remote control without re-injuring myself?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>    That 's also assuming a fixed computer operator base , and not including in new additions ( high school interns and recent graduates ) and attrition to management ( I do n't send emails , my secretary does that for me ) and retirement .
    Being that computers have been heavily in the workplace for say over 20 years , and typewriters for even longer , I 'd say the warning should be taken just as seriously as the OSHA training that you get ( do n't stand on top of a tippy ladder , on one foot , holding live wires , over a puddle while drinking hard liquor and smoking a joint ) and the frequently included warning of repetitive stress disorder on keyboards and mice .
I particularly enjoyed one training where it was clear that we should go outside once an our and look at things far in the distance , to avoid eye strain .
Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired .
: )     I will admit , I have suffered pain from keyboards .
I could n't grasp anything with my right hand for about 2 days because of typing too much .
( do n't read anything dirty into that , please ) .
It was on a Friday , so I did almost everything left handed .
It was difficult to start my car , and shift gears ( ya , I 'm in America ) .
Oddly enough , most doorknobs are ambidextrous , and most toilets flush from the left side .
: ) By Monday , the pain was gone .
    I 've suffered worse pain from working power tools and hammers .
Oddly enough , enough hammering will send some pretty good stress through your hands .
It hurts worse if you misjudge your finger to hammer head distance difference .
: ) I have n't made that mistake in years .
    Keyboard stress ?
Bah. There are a lot of worse pains you can suffer .
Unless you drop a server on your head ( or have an unbolted rack fall on you ) , you have n't seen it .
I knew one guy who seriously hurt himself because they were moving an enclosed sever cabinet .
It started to fall .
The guy on one side could n't do anything ( it was falling away from him ) .
The guy on the other side tried to catch it by himself .
He lived .
He was hurt .
He was very much not happy .
He did say if it ever happened again , he 'd jump out of the damned way .
: )     I 've learned over the years , lots of people do n't know how to judge levels of pain , because they have n't experienced high levels of pain .
" Oh my god , this is the worst pain I 've ever had " only means you have n't felt worse yet .
I 've seen grown men cry over stuff that my little daughter ( 2 years old ) shakes off like nothing happened .
She hurts herself and I tell her " that does n't hurt " , and she stops crying .
Really , it did n't .
She was walking barefooted in the house today , and accidentally closed an outside door on her toe .
I heard a little noise from her , but that was it .
She opened the door , removed her foot , and closed it again without the obstruction .
: ) It scraped the skin on her toe enough so I know it hurt a little ( probably 2 on a scale of 1 to 10 ) .
We washed it , doctored her up , and she ran off to play .
Later she pointed it out to me and said " owie .
" She just wanted the attention of it , she was n't really complaining .
    She takes after me though .
I 've cut myself pretty bad in various ways over the years ( I was n't a gentle child ) , and doctored myself up without the need to whine about it .
No infection , no lost parts , no problem .
  I think my finger hurts from flipping people off .
Can I get workers comp and a voice operated home theater system ?
I do n't think I can work the remote control without re-injuring myself ?
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
    That's also assuming a fixed computer operator base, and not including in new additions (high school interns and recent graduates) and attrition to management (I don't send emails, my secretary does that for me) and retirement.
    Being that computers have been heavily in the workplace for say over 20 years, and typewriters for even longer, I'd say the warning should be taken just as seriously as the OSHA training that you get (don't stand on top of a tippy ladder, on one foot, holding live wires, over a puddle while drinking hard liquor and smoking a joint) and the frequently included warning of repetitive stress disorder on keyboards and mice.
I particularly enjoyed one training where it was clear that we should go outside once an our and look at things far in the distance, to avoid eye strain.
Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired.
:)
    I will admit, I have suffered pain from keyboards.
I couldn't grasp anything with my right hand for about 2 days because of typing too much.
(don't read anything dirty into that, please).
It was on a Friday, so I did almost everything left handed.
It was difficult to start my car, and shift gears (ya, I'm in America).
Oddly enough, most doorknobs are ambidextrous, and most toilets flush from the left side.
:)  By Monday, the pain was gone.
    I've suffered worse pain from working power tools and hammers.
Oddly enough, enough hammering will send some pretty good stress through your hands.
It hurts worse if you misjudge your finger to hammer head distance difference.
:)  I haven't made that mistake in years.
    Keyboard stress?
Bah.  There are a lot of worse pains you can suffer.
Unless you drop a server on your head (or have an unbolted rack fall on you), you haven't seen it.
I knew one guy who seriously hurt himself because they were moving an enclosed sever cabinet.
It started to fall.
The guy on one side couldn't do anything (it was falling away from him).
The guy on the other side tried to catch it by himself.
He lived.
He was hurt.
He was very much not happy.
He did say if it ever happened again, he'd jump out of the damned way.
:)
    I've learned over the years, lots of people don't know how to judge levels of pain, because they haven't experienced high levels of pain.
"Oh my god, this is the worst pain I've ever had" only means you haven't felt worse yet.
I've seen grown men cry over stuff that my little daughter (2 years old) shakes off like nothing happened.
She hurts herself and I tell her "that doesn't hurt", and she stops crying.
Really, it didn't.
She was walking barefooted in the house today, and accidentally closed an outside door on her toe.
I heard a little noise from her, but that was it.
She opened the door, removed her foot, and closed it again without the obstruction.
:) It scraped the skin on her toe enough so I know it hurt a little (probably 2 on a scale of 1 to 10).
We washed it, doctored her up, and she ran off to play.
Later she pointed it out to me and said "owie.
"  She just wanted the attention of it, she wasn't really complaining.
    She takes after me though.
I've cut myself pretty bad in various ways over the years (I wasn't a gentle child), and doctored myself up without the need to whine about it.
No infection, no lost parts, no problem.
  I think my finger hurts from flipping people off.
Can I get workers comp and a voice operated home theater system?
I don't think I can work the remote control without re-injuring myself?
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331195</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28337663</id>
	<title>Gnome Accessibility</title>
	<author>Taxman415a</author>
	<datestamp>1245091740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Gnome has a decent <a href="http://projects.gnome.org/accessibility/" title="gnome.org">accessibility framework</a> [gnome.org] and apps. <a href="http://live.gnome.org/Orca" title="gnome.org">Orca</a> [gnome.org] is the screen reader and it's pretty decent, but it crashes too much. When it runs, it pretty much works as well or better than JAWS or WindoEyes (the other option on Windows) from what little I know, but doesn't sound quite as good. Sun contributed a ton of the work for bringing Gnome accessibility up to the level it is at, I doubt it would be anywhere near that good without them. I don't think KDE really has anything remotely at the same level. <br> <br>
There is no decent OCR software yet which is necessary for certain visual disabilities, but <a href="http://sites.google.com/site/ocropus/" title="google.com">ocropus is progressing</a> [google.com]. There is definitely no decent speech recognition as far as I know. <br> <br>
So yes, there is a lot of work to do, part of the problem is that accessibility is a relatively niche problem, and open source really shines on apps and projects that have wide appeal and thus a larger chance of attracting many eyes to look at the code and to help improve it. I'd really love to have an computer that could entirely be controlled without a screen using the screen reader software, but Orca is not yet quite up to the challenge. But at least it doesn't cost $1,000 like JAWS and WindowEyes and it's getting there.<br> <br>
But the submitter's point is good, there does need to be more contribution to this type of thing because these technologies are incredibly liberating for people with disabilities. Even though Orca isn't perfect, you can sit a blind person down at a Linux computer with up to date Gnome setup with accessibility and show them how to use it and they can navigate web pages and interact with many apps that follow the <a href="http://live.gnome.org/GAP/AtkGuide/Gtk" title="gnome.org">Gnome accessibility API</a> [gnome.org] This just happens to be the area I know most about, the submitter, clearly is coming in from another area, but the benefits are similar.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gnome has a decent accessibility framework [ gnome.org ] and apps .
Orca [ gnome.org ] is the screen reader and it 's pretty decent , but it crashes too much .
When it runs , it pretty much works as well or better than JAWS or WindoEyes ( the other option on Windows ) from what little I know , but does n't sound quite as good .
Sun contributed a ton of the work for bringing Gnome accessibility up to the level it is at , I doubt it would be anywhere near that good without them .
I do n't think KDE really has anything remotely at the same level .
There is no decent OCR software yet which is necessary for certain visual disabilities , but ocropus is progressing [ google.com ] .
There is definitely no decent speech recognition as far as I know .
So yes , there is a lot of work to do , part of the problem is that accessibility is a relatively niche problem , and open source really shines on apps and projects that have wide appeal and thus a larger chance of attracting many eyes to look at the code and to help improve it .
I 'd really love to have an computer that could entirely be controlled without a screen using the screen reader software , but Orca is not yet quite up to the challenge .
But at least it does n't cost $ 1,000 like JAWS and WindowEyes and it 's getting there .
But the submitter 's point is good , there does need to be more contribution to this type of thing because these technologies are incredibly liberating for people with disabilities .
Even though Orca is n't perfect , you can sit a blind person down at a Linux computer with up to date Gnome setup with accessibility and show them how to use it and they can navigate web pages and interact with many apps that follow the Gnome accessibility API [ gnome.org ] This just happens to be the area I know most about , the submitter , clearly is coming in from another area , but the benefits are similar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gnome has a decent accessibility framework [gnome.org] and apps.
Orca [gnome.org] is the screen reader and it's pretty decent, but it crashes too much.
When it runs, it pretty much works as well or better than JAWS or WindoEyes (the other option on Windows) from what little I know, but doesn't sound quite as good.
Sun contributed a ton of the work for bringing Gnome accessibility up to the level it is at, I doubt it would be anywhere near that good without them.
I don't think KDE really has anything remotely at the same level.
There is no decent OCR software yet which is necessary for certain visual disabilities, but ocropus is progressing [google.com].
There is definitely no decent speech recognition as far as I know.
So yes, there is a lot of work to do, part of the problem is that accessibility is a relatively niche problem, and open source really shines on apps and projects that have wide appeal and thus a larger chance of attracting many eyes to look at the code and to help improve it.
I'd really love to have an computer that could entirely be controlled without a screen using the screen reader software, but Orca is not yet quite up to the challenge.
But at least it doesn't cost $1,000 like JAWS and WindowEyes and it's getting there.
But the submitter's point is good, there does need to be more contribution to this type of thing because these technologies are incredibly liberating for people with disabilities.
Even though Orca isn't perfect, you can sit a blind person down at a Linux computer with up to date Gnome setup with accessibility and show them how to use it and they can navigate web pages and interact with many apps that follow the Gnome accessibility API [gnome.org] This just happens to be the area I know most about, the submitter, clearly is coming in from another area, but the benefits are similar.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332505</id>
	<title>Re:Apple - I hate you!</title>
	<author>Mishotaki</author>
	<datestamp>1245009120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I also lost part of a finger, but my personal problem is with the keyboards made out of plastic...
<p>Since it's made in plastic, the normal user uses their flat fingers to type and play</p><p>Since i completely lost thf fingertip sensation of my middle finger, the other fingers gotta compensate while typing and playing...</p><p>My thumb pushes on the "D" key sideways while playing, therefore it carves the key overitme... also my ring finger sits on the edge od the A key, cutting the edge of the key (now there is actually a hole in it) the left ALT key is carved by my thumb's nail, it's got a pretty deep hole in it, next year there should be a hole in it</p><p>If i would have a steel, or any material more friction-resistant, i'm sure i wouldn't have such weird, carved, keys...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I also lost part of a finger , but my personal problem is with the keyboards made out of plastic.. . Since it 's made in plastic , the normal user uses their flat fingers to type and playSince i completely lost thf fingertip sensation of my middle finger , the other fingers got ta compensate while typing and playing...My thumb pushes on the " D " key sideways while playing , therefore it carves the key overitme... also my ring finger sits on the edge od the A key , cutting the edge of the key ( now there is actually a hole in it ) the left ALT key is carved by my thumb 's nail , it 's got a pretty deep hole in it , next year there should be a hole in itIf i would have a steel , or any material more friction-resistant , i 'm sure i would n't have such weird , carved , keys.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I also lost part of a finger, but my personal problem is with the keyboards made out of plastic...
Since it's made in plastic, the normal user uses their flat fingers to type and playSince i completely lost thf fingertip sensation of my middle finger, the other fingers gotta compensate while typing and playing...My thumb pushes on the "D" key sideways while playing, therefore it carves the key overitme... also my ring finger sits on the edge od the A key, cutting the edge of the key (now there is actually a hole in it) the left ALT key is carved by my thumb's nail, it's got a pretty deep hole in it, next year there should be a hole in itIf i would have a steel, or any material more friction-resistant, i'm sure i wouldn't have such weird, carved, keys...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331819</id>
	<title>Re:Cold Truth</title>
	<author>layabout</author>
	<datestamp>1245000240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>what you describe is what we are doing today.  looking at it from the IT viewpoint, if you assume each IT person contributes 50k value to the economy and you loose 50k people each year, that is 2.5 mil flushed.  10\% of that would make it possible to solve the programming by voice problem in 2-3 years.  rather cheap way to stem a multimillion resource loss.  almost as cheap as telling the disabled to go sit on a street corner somewhere.</htmltext>
<tokenext>what you describe is what we are doing today .
looking at it from the IT viewpoint , if you assume each IT person contributes 50k value to the economy and you loose 50k people each year , that is 2.5 mil flushed .
10 \ % of that would make it possible to solve the programming by voice problem in 2-3 years .
rather cheap way to stem a multimillion resource loss .
almost as cheap as telling the disabled to go sit on a street corner somewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what you describe is what we are doing today.
looking at it from the IT viewpoint, if you assume each IT person contributes 50k value to the economy and you loose 50k people each year, that is 2.5 mil flushed.
10\% of that would make it possible to solve the programming by voice problem in 2-3 years.
rather cheap way to stem a multimillion resource loss.
almost as cheap as telling the disabled to go sit on a street corner somewhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331809</id>
	<title>Then uh, why did you buy it?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244999940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you hate Apple so much, why did you buy the phone?  You kinda got the gist that it was a touch phone from the ads, that was the gimmick...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you hate Apple so much , why did you buy the phone ?
You kinda got the gist that it was a touch phone from the ads , that was the gimmick.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you hate Apple so much, why did you buy the phone?
You kinda got the gist that it was a touch phone from the ads, that was the gimmick...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333091</id>
	<title>Re:The reason that nobody really works on this...</title>
	<author>arndawg</author>
	<datestamp>1245060540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In the Perl world I know one major hacker that has done a ton of accessibility work</p></div><p>Perl? Then you're disabled by default so that's not so strange.


kiiiid</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the Perl world I know one major hacker that has done a ton of accessibility workPerl ?
Then you 're disabled by default so that 's not so strange .
kiiiid</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the Perl world I know one major hacker that has done a ton of accessibility workPerl?
Then you're disabled by default so that's not so strange.
kiiiid
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331209</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28335229</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245081000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>... Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)...</p></div><p>The smokers seem to have no problem getting that many breaks in a day, don't see why you shouldn't be able to do the same.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired .
: ) ...The smokers seem to have no problem getting that many breaks in a day , do n't see why you should n't be able to do the same .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired.
:)...The smokers seem to have no problem getting that many breaks in a day, don't see why you shouldn't be able to do the same.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331245</id>
	<title>Permanently disabled geeks also exist</title>
	<author>JoshuaZ</author>
	<datestamp>1244994540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have a friend who was born with one arm and is about as geeky as they get. She uses voice recognition software for most online things (although apparently voice recognition software isn't so great for programming). I know someone else who developed hand injuries much later in life and has had a lot of trouble adjusting. It is much easier for people to adjust to being disabled at a young age than at an old age.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a friend who was born with one arm and is about as geeky as they get .
She uses voice recognition software for most online things ( although apparently voice recognition software is n't so great for programming ) .
I know someone else who developed hand injuries much later in life and has had a lot of trouble adjusting .
It is much easier for people to adjust to being disabled at a young age than at an old age .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a friend who was born with one arm and is about as geeky as they get.
She uses voice recognition software for most online things (although apparently voice recognition software isn't so great for programming).
I know someone else who developed hand injuries much later in life and has had a lot of trouble adjusting.
It is much easier for people to adjust to being disabled at a young age than at an old age.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331469</id>
	<title>Re:Get ready</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244996520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually now that you mention it, some people do buy coffins in advance of dying. Some people reserve plots on cemetery lands, for multiple generations even. Back in the days when the Internets weren't such a huge media platform, you used to (probably still do) see commercials on the television for prepaying funeral plans. Other commercials I've seen involved, for example, a woman assisting her husband in making sure that their insurance covers funeral costs for the dearly departed. He was dearly, and he has departed. Thus, that's why we call him the dearly departed. In other words, the nigger's dead! As you can see him laying here- I been here three days and the boy ain't moved a muscle. So I know the nigger's dead. And it seems that death was quite a surprise to his ass. Didn't think you's ever gonna die, did ya, nigger? Mmmm, I told you about fuckin' around, what was gonna happen.</p><p>However; he faced the ultimate test, as each man and woman must eventually face... the ultimate test. The ultimate test here- let me repeat that- the ultimate test here: whether or not you can survive death. That's the ultimate test for your ass, ain't it? So far, don't nobody we know has PASSED the ultimate test, least of all this nigger laying here. Cause this boy wasn't shit, I'm gonna tell you that right off. I saw him kicking his Mama's ass over there on 47th street. And if you think we gonna to bury you with them diamonds and shit on, you've got another think coming.</p><p>I'd like to introduce the boy's woman- hoe- bitch- I don't know what she was. She's laying over there in the booth. Say girl-- WHATCHU DOIN?! Well, don't sell no pussy in here... and if you do, I WANT A CUT! Shiiiiit, it's your fault the nigger's dead! If you'da been home when you was supposed to be, he wouldn't have been up in the hotel fucking that faggot. Boy's husband came home, caught 'em fucking, shot the nigger in the ass on the downstroke.</p><p>And if there is a God or a heaven, we don't want this nigger up there with us.</p><p>Can I get a "AMEN"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually now that you mention it , some people do buy coffins in advance of dying .
Some people reserve plots on cemetery lands , for multiple generations even .
Back in the days when the Internets were n't such a huge media platform , you used to ( probably still do ) see commercials on the television for prepaying funeral plans .
Other commercials I 've seen involved , for example , a woman assisting her husband in making sure that their insurance covers funeral costs for the dearly departed .
He was dearly , and he has departed .
Thus , that 's why we call him the dearly departed .
In other words , the nigger 's dead !
As you can see him laying here- I been here three days and the boy ai n't moved a muscle .
So I know the nigger 's dead .
And it seems that death was quite a surprise to his ass .
Did n't think you 's ever gon na die , did ya , nigger ?
Mmmm , I told you about fuckin ' around , what was gon na happen.However ; he faced the ultimate test , as each man and woman must eventually face... the ultimate test .
The ultimate test here- let me repeat that- the ultimate test here : whether or not you can survive death .
That 's the ultimate test for your ass , ai n't it ?
So far , do n't nobody we know has PASSED the ultimate test , least of all this nigger laying here .
Cause this boy was n't shit , I 'm gon na tell you that right off .
I saw him kicking his Mama 's ass over there on 47th street .
And if you think we gon na to bury you with them diamonds and shit on , you 've got another think coming.I 'd like to introduce the boy 's woman- hoe- bitch- I do n't know what she was .
She 's laying over there in the booth .
Say girl-- WHATCHU DOIN ? !
Well , do n't sell no pussy in here... and if you do , I WANT A CUT !
Shiiiiit , it 's your fault the nigger 's dead !
If you'da been home when you was supposed to be , he would n't have been up in the hotel fucking that faggot .
Boy 's husband came home , caught 'em fucking , shot the nigger in the ass on the downstroke.And if there is a God or a heaven , we do n't want this nigger up there with us.Can I get a " AMEN " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually now that you mention it, some people do buy coffins in advance of dying.
Some people reserve plots on cemetery lands, for multiple generations even.
Back in the days when the Internets weren't such a huge media platform, you used to (probably still do) see commercials on the television for prepaying funeral plans.
Other commercials I've seen involved, for example, a woman assisting her husband in making sure that their insurance covers funeral costs for the dearly departed.
He was dearly, and he has departed.
Thus, that's why we call him the dearly departed.
In other words, the nigger's dead!
As you can see him laying here- I been here three days and the boy ain't moved a muscle.
So I know the nigger's dead.
And it seems that death was quite a surprise to his ass.
Didn't think you's ever gonna die, did ya, nigger?
Mmmm, I told you about fuckin' around, what was gonna happen.However; he faced the ultimate test, as each man and woman must eventually face... the ultimate test.
The ultimate test here- let me repeat that- the ultimate test here: whether or not you can survive death.
That's the ultimate test for your ass, ain't it?
So far, don't nobody we know has PASSED the ultimate test, least of all this nigger laying here.
Cause this boy wasn't shit, I'm gonna tell you that right off.
I saw him kicking his Mama's ass over there on 47th street.
And if you think we gonna to bury you with them diamonds and shit on, you've got another think coming.I'd like to introduce the boy's woman- hoe- bitch- I don't know what she was.
She's laying over there in the booth.
Say girl-- WHATCHU DOIN?!
Well, don't sell no pussy in here... and if you do, I WANT A CUT!
Shiiiiit, it's your fault the nigger's dead!
If you'da been home when you was supposed to be, he wouldn't have been up in the hotel fucking that faggot.
Boy's husband came home, caught 'em fucking, shot the nigger in the ass on the downstroke.And if there is a God or a heaven, we don't want this nigger up there with us.Can I get a "AMEN"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331265</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331731</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>layabout</author>
	<datestamp>1244999100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Repetitive+strain+injuries+stretch+higher-a018341055" title="thefreelibrary.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Repetitive+strain+injuries+stretch+higher-a018341055</a> [thefreelibrary.com]

when you work through the reports, the 300k number works out to about 100k for IT.  while this report is old, nothing has changed to drop the rate.  uk reports are more current
<a href="http://download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/hardwar/Ergonomics\_and\_Repetitive\_Strain\_Injury.pdf" title="microsoft.com" rel="nofollow">http://download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/hardwar/Ergonomics\_and\_Repetitive\_Strain\_Injury.pdf</a> [microsoft.com]


As for the near 100\%, think arthritis, medication induced tremors, loss of flexibility as you age normally or via trauma.  It all adds up to loss of hand function.</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.thefreelibrary.com/Repetitive + strain + injuries + stretch + higher-a018341055 [ thefreelibrary.com ] when you work through the reports , the 300k number works out to about 100k for IT .
while this report is old , nothing has changed to drop the rate .
uk reports are more current http : //download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/hardwar/Ergonomics \ _and \ _Repetitive \ _Strain \ _Injury.pdf [ microsoft.com ] As for the near 100 \ % , think arthritis , medication induced tremors , loss of flexibility as you age normally or via trauma .
It all adds up to loss of hand function .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Repetitive+strain+injuries+stretch+higher-a018341055 [thefreelibrary.com]

when you work through the reports, the 300k number works out to about 100k for IT.
while this report is old, nothing has changed to drop the rate.
uk reports are more current
http://download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/hardwar/Ergonomics\_and\_Repetitive\_Strain\_Injury.pdf [microsoft.com]


As for the near 100\%, think arthritis, medication induced tremors, loss of flexibility as you age normally or via trauma.
It all adds up to loss of hand function.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331195</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332681</id>
	<title>Building on existing SR engines</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245098100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://code.google.com/p/dragonfly/" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">Dragonfly</a> [google.com] is a programmer's toolkit for building on top of existing speech recognition engines.  It supports Dragon NaturallySpeaking and Windows Speech Recognition (both only for windows, alas).  It doesn't implement efficient programming by voice itself, but it seems like the right basis on which to build such a voice-programmer's editor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dragonfly [ google.com ] is a programmer 's toolkit for building on top of existing speech recognition engines .
It supports Dragon NaturallySpeaking and Windows Speech Recognition ( both only for windows , alas ) .
It does n't implement efficient programming by voice itself , but it seems like the right basis on which to build such a voice-programmer 's editor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dragonfly [google.com] is a programmer's toolkit for building on top of existing speech recognition engines.
It supports Dragon NaturallySpeaking and Windows Speech Recognition (both only for windows, alas).
It doesn't implement efficient programming by voice itself, but it seems like the right basis on which to build such a voice-programmer's editor.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331877</id>
	<title>Tools for the disabled are absurdly expensive.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245001140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know a couple of blind and nearly-blind people, and there are 3 packages they can use, such as WindowEyes.  The problem is, all three of the packages cost $1300 or more.  Why?  WindowEyes, for example, bundles in French, Italian, Serbo-Croatian and twenty-seven other languages.  They justify the horrendous prices of this software on the limited market - there aren't very many disabled people, so they need to charge a lot for it.</p><p>If you're a geek and you get disabled, you're out of work, buddy.  Compassion is a word not in the business lexicon.</p><p>If I worked for any of those companies, I'd hang my head in shame.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know a couple of blind and nearly-blind people , and there are 3 packages they can use , such as WindowEyes .
The problem is , all three of the packages cost $ 1300 or more .
Why ? WindowEyes , for example , bundles in French , Italian , Serbo-Croatian and twenty-seven other languages .
They justify the horrendous prices of this software on the limited market - there are n't very many disabled people , so they need to charge a lot for it.If you 're a geek and you get disabled , you 're out of work , buddy .
Compassion is a word not in the business lexicon.If I worked for any of those companies , I 'd hang my head in shame .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know a couple of blind and nearly-blind people, and there are 3 packages they can use, such as WindowEyes.
The problem is, all three of the packages cost $1300 or more.
Why?  WindowEyes, for example, bundles in French, Italian, Serbo-Croatian and twenty-seven other languages.
They justify the horrendous prices of this software on the limited market - there aren't very many disabled people, so they need to charge a lot for it.If you're a geek and you get disabled, you're out of work, buddy.
Compassion is a word not in the business lexicon.If I worked for any of those companies, I'd hang my head in shame.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28334285</id>
	<title>Re:Time, money, expertiese</title>
	<author>holophrastic</author>
	<datestamp>1245075900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>oh, this is a stupid statistic.  First off, 40\% of people do a lot of stupid things.  It doesn't put my chances of becoming disabled anywhere near 40\%.  I'm sure something like 40\% of women don't know where babies come from -- and that birth control is necessary.  That doesn't increase my chances, no matter how stupid my partner.</p><p>But again, it's not that the market does or does not exist.  It's that I don't currently have any access to that market.  I don't know which laws to follow, where to find that market, what their priorities are, how long such a customer might persist, or any other characteristics of that market.</p><p>In contrast, I do know all of that for my current markets.  So you're asking me to venture into unknown territory.  Which is fine, good, and certainly possible as well as enjoyable and even thrilling.  But it's not more profitable than focussing on my current success.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>oh , this is a stupid statistic .
First off , 40 \ % of people do a lot of stupid things .
It does n't put my chances of becoming disabled anywhere near 40 \ % .
I 'm sure something like 40 \ % of women do n't know where babies come from -- and that birth control is necessary .
That does n't increase my chances , no matter how stupid my partner.But again , it 's not that the market does or does not exist .
It 's that I do n't currently have any access to that market .
I do n't know which laws to follow , where to find that market , what their priorities are , how long such a customer might persist , or any other characteristics of that market.In contrast , I do know all of that for my current markets .
So you 're asking me to venture into unknown territory .
Which is fine , good , and certainly possible as well as enjoyable and even thrilling .
But it 's not more profitable than focussing on my current success .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>oh, this is a stupid statistic.
First off, 40\% of people do a lot of stupid things.
It doesn't put my chances of becoming disabled anywhere near 40\%.
I'm sure something like 40\% of women don't know where babies come from -- and that birth control is necessary.
That doesn't increase my chances, no matter how stupid my partner.But again, it's not that the market does or does not exist.
It's that I don't currently have any access to that market.
I don't know which laws to follow, where to find that market, what their priorities are, how long such a customer might persist, or any other characteristics of that market.In contrast, I do know all of that for my current markets.
So you're asking me to venture into unknown territory.
Which is fine, good, and certainly possible as well as enjoyable and even thrilling.
But it's not more profitable than focussing on my current success.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331511</id>
	<title>Re:Let me be the first to mention Dasher</title>
	<author>lwsimon</author>
	<datestamp>1244996820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been thinking about building a Dasher input device for a long time - I'm thinking of a joystick with a 8" or so LCD to display Dasher.  Running Linux, with USB, VGA, and even component video ports to attach to other display devices.</p><p>The advantage being, you could use this on multiple systems, without installing hardware.  Let the device send standard keyboard codes, and handle the Dasher software inside the device.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been thinking about building a Dasher input device for a long time - I 'm thinking of a joystick with a 8 " or so LCD to display Dasher .
Running Linux , with USB , VGA , and even component video ports to attach to other display devices.The advantage being , you could use this on multiple systems , without installing hardware .
Let the device send standard keyboard codes , and handle the Dasher software inside the device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been thinking about building a Dasher input device for a long time - I'm thinking of a joystick with a 8" or so LCD to display Dasher.
Running Linux, with USB, VGA, and even component video ports to attach to other display devices.The advantage being, you could use this on multiple systems, without installing hardware.
Let the device send standard keyboard codes, and handle the Dasher software inside the device.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28335867</id>
	<title>Re:The reason that nobody really works on this...</title>
	<author>awtbfb</author>
	<datestamp>1245083820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Nobody thinks they are going to be disabled.</p></div><p>
There is a standing joke in the community. People without disabilities are "temporarily abled" since most people encounter disability at some point in their life.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nobody thinks they are going to be disabled .
There is a standing joke in the community .
People without disabilities are " temporarily abled " since most people encounter disability at some point in their life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nobody thinks they are going to be disabled.
There is a standing joke in the community.
People without disabilities are "temporarily abled" since most people encounter disability at some point in their life.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331209</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332293</id>
	<title>Re:Cold Truth</title>
	<author>Eil</author>
	<datestamp>1245006480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It is about the law of diminishing returns. It might sound cold. It might suck. But you really need to consider why Pizza Hut doesn't offer Pickle Chocolate pizza... The effort and cost to patronize the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.01\% of potential users just isn't worth it.</p></div></blockquote><p>In the commercial software world, you are exactly correct.</p><p>However in the open source world, people create, work on, and use the software that they need. It's the whole scratching-your-itch thing. The best example I can think of this is internationalization and localization. In the commercial software world, very few companies ever spend money writing translations for languages that aren't major languages in their core markets. That means at best you get a handful of languages for a given proprietary application, although I would guess that the vast majority only have one: English.</p><p>Completely different story in open source. Any sufficiently developed software has little to no hard-coded language in it. Instead, most applications utilize a message library so that translations can be added easily and rolled in upstream. As a result, people who work in a non-English language can choose their language when installing their open source OS and end up a userland that's completely customized with their language, units of measurements, and other local features. You rarely get such a complete experience in the proprietary market.</p><p>Disabled geeks should take this as an example of how to add accessibility features to the open source software that otherwise does what they need. No, perhaps accessibility features aren't as easy as adding a language to a message catalog, but the overall idea is the same. There may be plenty of fully-abled (if that's a PC term) developers who like to work on accessibility features, but only the disabled really know what they need. They are the ones that will have to lead the charge on developing frameworks for alternative interface methods and so forth for open source software. Everyone else will help as best they can purely in the interest of making the software better and making it accessible to as many people as possible.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is about the law of diminishing returns .
It might sound cold .
It might suck .
But you really need to consider why Pizza Hut does n't offer Pickle Chocolate pizza... The effort and cost to patronize the .01 \ % of potential users just is n't worth it.In the commercial software world , you are exactly correct.However in the open source world , people create , work on , and use the software that they need .
It 's the whole scratching-your-itch thing .
The best example I can think of this is internationalization and localization .
In the commercial software world , very few companies ever spend money writing translations for languages that are n't major languages in their core markets .
That means at best you get a handful of languages for a given proprietary application , although I would guess that the vast majority only have one : English.Completely different story in open source .
Any sufficiently developed software has little to no hard-coded language in it .
Instead , most applications utilize a message library so that translations can be added easily and rolled in upstream .
As a result , people who work in a non-English language can choose their language when installing their open source OS and end up a userland that 's completely customized with their language , units of measurements , and other local features .
You rarely get such a complete experience in the proprietary market.Disabled geeks should take this as an example of how to add accessibility features to the open source software that otherwise does what they need .
No , perhaps accessibility features are n't as easy as adding a language to a message catalog , but the overall idea is the same .
There may be plenty of fully-abled ( if that 's a PC term ) developers who like to work on accessibility features , but only the disabled really know what they need .
They are the ones that will have to lead the charge on developing frameworks for alternative interface methods and so forth for open source software .
Everyone else will help as best they can purely in the interest of making the software better and making it accessible to as many people as possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is about the law of diminishing returns.
It might sound cold.
It might suck.
But you really need to consider why Pizza Hut doesn't offer Pickle Chocolate pizza... The effort and cost to patronize the .01\% of potential users just isn't worth it.In the commercial software world, you are exactly correct.However in the open source world, people create, work on, and use the software that they need.
It's the whole scratching-your-itch thing.
The best example I can think of this is internationalization and localization.
In the commercial software world, very few companies ever spend money writing translations for languages that aren't major languages in their core markets.
That means at best you get a handful of languages for a given proprietary application, although I would guess that the vast majority only have one: English.Completely different story in open source.
Any sufficiently developed software has little to no hard-coded language in it.
Instead, most applications utilize a message library so that translations can be added easily and rolled in upstream.
As a result, people who work in a non-English language can choose their language when installing their open source OS and end up a userland that's completely customized with their language, units of measurements, and other local features.
You rarely get such a complete experience in the proprietary market.Disabled geeks should take this as an example of how to add accessibility features to the open source software that otherwise does what they need.
No, perhaps accessibility features aren't as easy as adding a language to a message catalog, but the overall idea is the same.
There may be plenty of fully-abled (if that's a PC term) developers who like to work on accessibility features, but only the disabled really know what they need.
They are the ones that will have to lead the charge on developing frameworks for alternative interface methods and so forth for open source software.
Everyone else will help as best they can purely in the interest of making the software better and making it accessible to as many people as possible.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331973</id>
	<title>new great voice recognition software?</title>
	<author>djdevon3</author>
	<datestamp>1245002100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Oh Sexy Girlfriend Bonzai" nuff said...</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Oh Sexy Girlfriend Bonzai " nuff said.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Oh Sexy Girlfriend Bonzai" nuff said...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332527</id>
	<title>Dasher</title>
	<author>LoudMusic</author>
	<datestamp>1245009540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/DasherSummary2.html" title="cam.ac.uk">http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/DasherSummary2.html</a> [cam.ac.uk]</p><p>Play with it. It's smart.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/DasherSummary2.html [ cam.ac.uk ] Play with it .
It 's smart .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/DasherSummary2.html [cam.ac.uk]Play with it.
It's smart.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331313</id>
	<title>Custom Solutions</title>
	<author>flnca</author>
	<datestamp>1244995140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are custom solutions for disabled people on the market -- if you have health insurance, you can ask them if they are going to pay for it. <br> <br>

BTW, I always worry about things like accessibility, but employers for instance don't pay attention to that, and programming APIs for accessibility often dramatically increase the complexity of an application. That's why so few applications make use of accessibility functions. That must be changed someday. Thanks for the reminder. If I can, I will incorporate some of your ideas into an easy-to-use GUI framework, that frees the programmer from all extra work associated with it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are custom solutions for disabled people on the market -- if you have health insurance , you can ask them if they are going to pay for it .
BTW , I always worry about things like accessibility , but employers for instance do n't pay attention to that , and programming APIs for accessibility often dramatically increase the complexity of an application .
That 's why so few applications make use of accessibility functions .
That must be changed someday .
Thanks for the reminder .
If I can , I will incorporate some of your ideas into an easy-to-use GUI framework , that frees the programmer from all extra work associated with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are custom solutions for disabled people on the market -- if you have health insurance, you can ask them if they are going to pay for it.
BTW, I always worry about things like accessibility, but employers for instance don't pay attention to that, and programming APIs for accessibility often dramatically increase the complexity of an application.
That's why so few applications make use of accessibility functions.
That must be changed someday.
Thanks for the reminder.
If I can, I will incorporate some of your ideas into an easy-to-use GUI framework, that frees the programmer from all extra work associated with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333281</id>
	<title>Re:The reason that nobody really works on this...</title>
	<author>AmiMoJo</author>
	<datestamp>1245064200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I sometimes wonder if this sort of problem is an unsolvable one anyway.</p><p>I have arthritis (auto-immune) and it prevents me playing games much any more. Even just working on the hardware side of PCs, particularly with screw drivers, is quite painful.</p><p>Okay, maybe I could spend lots of time and money finding a way to carry on doing those things on a regular basis, but for me it seems to make more sense to just accept it and move on to something else. Now I do electronics as a hobby, in particular game controller related stuff, and embedded system programming.</p><p>I know it can be hard to accept, but maybe there is just no good way for some people to do some things. Maybe one day computers will be like the ones in Star Trek and understand natural language, but today I think we just have to accept some limitations. That isn't to say we should not work towards something better, but for what the OP wants it's going to take some major advances in technology before it becomes viable.</p><p>Those advances will come from people working in academia and for large, well funded research divisions. It's not the sort of thing you can just sit down a code using computer science principals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I sometimes wonder if this sort of problem is an unsolvable one anyway.I have arthritis ( auto-immune ) and it prevents me playing games much any more .
Even just working on the hardware side of PCs , particularly with screw drivers , is quite painful.Okay , maybe I could spend lots of time and money finding a way to carry on doing those things on a regular basis , but for me it seems to make more sense to just accept it and move on to something else .
Now I do electronics as a hobby , in particular game controller related stuff , and embedded system programming.I know it can be hard to accept , but maybe there is just no good way for some people to do some things .
Maybe one day computers will be like the ones in Star Trek and understand natural language , but today I think we just have to accept some limitations .
That is n't to say we should not work towards something better , but for what the OP wants it 's going to take some major advances in technology before it becomes viable.Those advances will come from people working in academia and for large , well funded research divisions .
It 's not the sort of thing you can just sit down a code using computer science principals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I sometimes wonder if this sort of problem is an unsolvable one anyway.I have arthritis (auto-immune) and it prevents me playing games much any more.
Even just working on the hardware side of PCs, particularly with screw drivers, is quite painful.Okay, maybe I could spend lots of time and money finding a way to carry on doing those things on a regular basis, but for me it seems to make more sense to just accept it and move on to something else.
Now I do electronics as a hobby, in particular game controller related stuff, and embedded system programming.I know it can be hard to accept, but maybe there is just no good way for some people to do some things.
Maybe one day computers will be like the ones in Star Trek and understand natural language, but today I think we just have to accept some limitations.
That isn't to say we should not work towards something better, but for what the OP wants it's going to take some major advances in technology before it becomes viable.Those advances will come from people working in academia and for large, well funded research divisions.
It's not the sort of thing you can just sit down a code using computer science principals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331209</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331327</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>BobNET</author>
	<datestamp>1244995260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing" Cite please?</p></div></blockquote><p>It's hard to type when you're dead. Therefore I state that, in time, <em>exactly</em> 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In time , almost 100 \ % of keyboard users will have trouble typing " Cite please ? It 's hard to type when you 're dead .
Therefore I state that , in time , exactly 100 \ % of keyboard users will have trouble typing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing" Cite please?It's hard to type when you're dead.
Therefore I state that, in time, exactly 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331195</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28394919</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>RockDoctor</author>
	<datestamp>1245402780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It's hard to type when you're dead. Therefore I state that, in time, exactly 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing.</p></div></blockquote><p>Not necessarily. All people who are dead will have trouble typing. All keyboard users who are also people and who are also dead will have trouble typing (this would exclude keyboard-using kittens beloved of calendar makers, but I leave open the question of whether it excludes keyboard-using chimpanzees. Or orangutans, if they're actually our closest relatives.) However, if there are any non-keyboard users who are also people and are also dead, then they too will have trouble typing. So, the number of dead people who will have trouble typing is greater than the number of keyboard users who will have trouble typing, i.e. more than 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing when they're dead.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's hard to type when you 're dead .
Therefore I state that , in time , exactly 100 \ % of keyboard users will have trouble typing.Not necessarily .
All people who are dead will have trouble typing .
All keyboard users who are also people and who are also dead will have trouble typing ( this would exclude keyboard-using kittens beloved of calendar makers , but I leave open the question of whether it excludes keyboard-using chimpanzees .
Or orangutans , if they 're actually our closest relatives .
) However , if there are any non-keyboard users who are also people and are also dead , then they too will have trouble typing .
So , the number of dead people who will have trouble typing is greater than the number of keyboard users who will have trouble typing , i.e .
more than 100 \ % of keyboard users will have trouble typing when they 're dead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's hard to type when you're dead.
Therefore I state that, in time, exactly 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing.Not necessarily.
All people who are dead will have trouble typing.
All keyboard users who are also people and who are also dead will have trouble typing (this would exclude keyboard-using kittens beloved of calendar makers, but I leave open the question of whether it excludes keyboard-using chimpanzees.
Or orangutans, if they're actually our closest relatives.
) However, if there are any non-keyboard users who are also people and are also dead, then they too will have trouble typing.
So, the number of dead people who will have trouble typing is greater than the number of keyboard users who will have trouble typing, i.e.
more than 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing when they're dead.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331327</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28345029</id>
	<title>Re:My work has similiar concerns...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245182460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks for the anecdote.  The sad part is that web applications CAN be as usable as terminals to the blind if the CGI returns text and only text.  Talk to your manager and/or vendor - maybe you can beta-test an ADA compliant version with the vendors co-operation.  Explain your position to them, your dilemma, and offer as a chance for the vendor to add a new feature to their application that may lead to more sales.  Many workplaces have disabled employees.  If their sales rep can say to prospect "Yes, it features a text-only mode and a screen-reader that enables vision-impaired employees to use the system" that can help close the deal.</p><p>The younger readers here may smirk, but that's because you have no idea.  In corporate america, you work side by side with people who are too young (and too poor) to retire but too old to read anything smaller than an 18 point font.  They just can't read it anymore, even with glasses.  It's a real test of your patience when you're young, fast, and hyped up on caffiene and trying to help someone in their 60s use the system, and you realize... the reason their jobs/entries don't go through or error out is because their putting typos and spaces in their entries and they simply \_cannot\_ see the typo, even after you point them out.  Seconds tick by as they stare... and say "Where?  An extra space?"</p><p>See:<br><a href="http://leb.net/blinux/blynx/" title="leb.net" rel="nofollow">http://leb.net/blinux/blynx/</a> [leb.net]</p><p>Maybe the one technology from Star Trek we should research are conversational computers, like Zen on Blake 7.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for the anecdote .
The sad part is that web applications CAN be as usable as terminals to the blind if the CGI returns text and only text .
Talk to your manager and/or vendor - maybe you can beta-test an ADA compliant version with the vendors co-operation .
Explain your position to them , your dilemma , and offer as a chance for the vendor to add a new feature to their application that may lead to more sales .
Many workplaces have disabled employees .
If their sales rep can say to prospect " Yes , it features a text-only mode and a screen-reader that enables vision-impaired employees to use the system " that can help close the deal.The younger readers here may smirk , but that 's because you have no idea .
In corporate america , you work side by side with people who are too young ( and too poor ) to retire but too old to read anything smaller than an 18 point font .
They just ca n't read it anymore , even with glasses .
It 's a real test of your patience when you 're young , fast , and hyped up on caffiene and trying to help someone in their 60s use the system , and you realize... the reason their jobs/entries do n't go through or error out is because their putting typos and spaces in their entries and they simply \ _cannot \ _ see the typo , even after you point them out .
Seconds tick by as they stare... and say " Where ?
An extra space ?
" See : http : //leb.net/blinux/blynx/ [ leb.net ] Maybe the one technology from Star Trek we should research are conversational computers , like Zen on Blake 7 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for the anecdote.
The sad part is that web applications CAN be as usable as terminals to the blind if the CGI returns text and only text.
Talk to your manager and/or vendor - maybe you can beta-test an ADA compliant version with the vendors co-operation.
Explain your position to them, your dilemma, and offer as a chance for the vendor to add a new feature to their application that may lead to more sales.
Many workplaces have disabled employees.
If their sales rep can say to prospect "Yes, it features a text-only mode and a screen-reader that enables vision-impaired employees to use the system" that can help close the deal.The younger readers here may smirk, but that's because you have no idea.
In corporate america, you work side by side with people who are too young (and too poor) to retire but too old to read anything smaller than an 18 point font.
They just can't read it anymore, even with glasses.
It's a real test of your patience when you're young, fast, and hyped up on caffiene and trying to help someone in their 60s use the system, and you realize... the reason their jobs/entries don't go through or error out is because their putting typos and spaces in their entries and they simply \_cannot\_ see the typo, even after you point them out.
Seconds tick by as they stare... and say "Where?
An extra space?
"See:http://leb.net/blinux/blynx/ [leb.net]Maybe the one technology from Star Trek we should research are conversational computers, like Zen on Blake 7.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331885</id>
	<title>Re:Let me be the first to mention Dasher</title>
	<author>DMUTPeregrine</author>
	<datestamp>1245001200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Dasher is a good system. Especially if you can write language files for given programming languages.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dasher is a good system .
Especially if you can write language files for given programming languages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dasher is a good system.
Especially if you can write language files for given programming languages.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331303</id>
	<title>Let me be the first to mention Dasher</title>
	<author>greenguy</author>
	<datestamp>1244995080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dasher is a great text-input interface: mouse driven, and you don't even have to click (very often). Not as fast as a keyboard, but still respectable.</p><p>Heck, I wish it worked for my N800, and I don't even have any disabilities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dasher is a great text-input interface : mouse driven , and you do n't even have to click ( very often ) .
Not as fast as a keyboard , but still respectable.Heck , I wish it worked for my N800 , and I do n't even have any disabilities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dasher is a great text-input interface: mouse driven, and you don't even have to click (very often).
Not as fast as a keyboard, but still respectable.Heck, I wish it worked for my N800, and I don't even have any disabilities.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28360613</id>
	<title>Chorded Keyboards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245248700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All chorded keyboards aren't expensive.</p><p>If you have a friend with working hands, a glue gun, and a dremil. joy2chord.sourceforge.net has code to turn any joystick into a chorded keyboard. so the cost of a chorded keyboard drops from ~ $200 to $5.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All chorded keyboards are n't expensive.If you have a friend with working hands , a glue gun , and a dremil .
joy2chord.sourceforge.net has code to turn any joystick into a chorded keyboard .
so the cost of a chorded keyboard drops from ~ $ 200 to $ 5 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All chorded keyboards aren't expensive.If you have a friend with working hands, a glue gun, and a dremil.
joy2chord.sourceforge.net has code to turn any joystick into a chorded keyboard.
so the cost of a chorded keyboard drops from ~ $200 to $5.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331631</id>
	<title>keyboard help tab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244998080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AM USing brain directly to type nowfullstop carriagereturn unfortunately little bits of grey stuff keep sticking to the keys enter</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AM USing brain directly to type nowfullstop carriagereturn unfortunately little bits of grey stuff keep sticking to the keys enter</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AM USing brain directly to type nowfullstop carriagereturn unfortunately little bits of grey stuff keep sticking to the keys enter</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333889</id>
	<title>Better tools for abled geeks?</title>
	<author>jellomizer</author>
	<datestamp>1245072540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Coding good interfaces is hard even for able people. and thinking about disabled people creates far more of a challenges, as different disabilities my conflict with each other.</p><p>Text to speech and voice interface great for the blind worthless for the deaf.  Making a Text to speech UI where you get good speech commands may not make a good visual interface.  (A one dimensional UI model represented in 2d, is not efficient.</p><p>The best we really can do is offer a good UI for the able person and sadly a way for disabled people to muddle their way threw, so they can get it done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Coding good interfaces is hard even for able people .
and thinking about disabled people creates far more of a challenges , as different disabilities my conflict with each other.Text to speech and voice interface great for the blind worthless for the deaf .
Making a Text to speech UI where you get good speech commands may not make a good visual interface .
( A one dimensional UI model represented in 2d , is not efficient.The best we really can do is offer a good UI for the able person and sadly a way for disabled people to muddle their way threw , so they can get it done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Coding good interfaces is hard even for able people.
and thinking about disabled people creates far more of a challenges, as different disabilities my conflict with each other.Text to speech and voice interface great for the blind worthless for the deaf.
Making a Text to speech UI where you get good speech commands may not make a good visual interface.
(A one dimensional UI model represented in 2d, is not efficient.The best we really can do is offer a good UI for the able person and sadly a way for disabled people to muddle their way threw, so they can get it done.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28335529</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245082560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Keyboard stress? Bah. There are a lot of worse pains you can suffer. "</p><p>While having your hand hurt for 2 days is no fun, try having your whole arms, elbows, wrists, fingers, neck and shoulders hurt, sometimes to the point where you can't do anything, and even sitting or laying is uncomfortable, for years, not days.  RSI is a very serious problem with many people, please don't belittle it by shaking it off saying those people don't know what pain is.  Your 2 days of annoyance due to your sore hand is incomparable to what people with true RSI experience.  Constant pain for years is much different, and can't be compared to short single instances of pain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Keyboard stress ?
Bah. There are a lot of worse pains you can suffer .
" While having your hand hurt for 2 days is no fun , try having your whole arms , elbows , wrists , fingers , neck and shoulders hurt , sometimes to the point where you ca n't do anything , and even sitting or laying is uncomfortable , for years , not days .
RSI is a very serious problem with many people , please do n't belittle it by shaking it off saying those people do n't know what pain is .
Your 2 days of annoyance due to your sore hand is incomparable to what people with true RSI experience .
Constant pain for years is much different , and ca n't be compared to short single instances of pain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Keyboard stress?
Bah. There are a lot of worse pains you can suffer.
"While having your hand hurt for 2 days is no fun, try having your whole arms, elbows, wrists, fingers, neck and shoulders hurt, sometimes to the point where you can't do anything, and even sitting or laying is uncomfortable, for years, not days.
RSI is a very serious problem with many people, please don't belittle it by shaking it off saying those people don't know what pain is.
Your 2 days of annoyance due to your sore hand is incomparable to what people with true RSI experience.
Constant pain for years is much different, and can't be compared to short single instances of pain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332185</id>
	<title>Wait, what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245004980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In response to point one, why does it matter what OS it runs on?  You should check Windows/OS X as well.  After all, something this important is worth dual-booting for.</p><p>In response to your second point, what's wrong with speaking to the keyboard?  You seem to think it's a bad solution, without providing any kind of alternative other than "make it easier."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In response to point one , why does it matter what OS it runs on ?
You should check Windows/OS X as well .
After all , something this important is worth dual-booting for.In response to your second point , what 's wrong with speaking to the keyboard ?
You seem to think it 's a bad solution , without providing any kind of alternative other than " make it easier .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In response to point one, why does it matter what OS it runs on?
You should check Windows/OS X as well.
After all, something this important is worth dual-booting for.In response to your second point, what's wrong with speaking to the keyboard?
You seem to think it's a bad solution, without providing any kind of alternative other than "make it easier.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28343353</id>
	<title>Re:Time, money, expertiese</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245077820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps you could put your trumpet down and go and look up the definition of 'volunteer'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps you could put your trumpet down and go and look up the definition of 'volunteer' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps you could put your trumpet down and go and look up the definition of 'volunteer'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28336205</id>
	<title>Re:Permanently disabled geeks also exist</title>
	<author>mr.witherspoone</author>
	<datestamp>1245085140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I lost the use of one my arms in a motorcycle accident at 22.  I've found something like this along with one handed keyboard settings helps a lot: <a href="http://gamingmouse.com/weapon.php?pid=31" title="gamingmouse.com" rel="nofollow">http://gamingmouse.com/weapon.php?pid=31</a> [gamingmouse.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I lost the use of one my arms in a motorcycle accident at 22 .
I 've found something like this along with one handed keyboard settings helps a lot : http : //gamingmouse.com/weapon.php ? pid = 31 [ gamingmouse.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I lost the use of one my arms in a motorcycle accident at 22.
I've found something like this along with one handed keyboard settings helps a lot: http://gamingmouse.com/weapon.php?pid=31 [gamingmouse.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331245</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332943</id>
	<title>Re:The reason that nobody really works on this...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245058320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are many people working on input methods for the disabled. As just one example, <a href="http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/" title="cam.ac.uk">Dasher</a> [cam.ac.uk] is an information efficient text-entry method that can be controlled by mouse, voice, gaze, two buttons or even a single button. Experienced users regularly type 20+ words per minute, just with their gaze. Try that with an on-screen keyboard.
<br>
<br>
The same group has just published <a href="http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/nomon/" title="cam.ac.uk">nomon</a> [cam.ac.uk], a single-button text entry method (and pointing device) for the severely disabled. Did I mention that both programs are open source?</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many people working on input methods for the disabled .
As just one example , Dasher [ cam.ac.uk ] is an information efficient text-entry method that can be controlled by mouse , voice , gaze , two buttons or even a single button .
Experienced users regularly type 20 + words per minute , just with their gaze .
Try that with an on-screen keyboard .
The same group has just published nomon [ cam.ac.uk ] , a single-button text entry method ( and pointing device ) for the severely disabled .
Did I mention that both programs are open source ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many people working on input methods for the disabled.
As just one example, Dasher [cam.ac.uk] is an information efficient text-entry method that can be controlled by mouse, voice, gaze, two buttons or even a single button.
Experienced users regularly type 20+ words per minute, just with their gaze.
Try that with an on-screen keyboard.
The same group has just published nomon [cam.ac.uk], a single-button text entry method (and pointing device) for the severely disabled.
Did I mention that both programs are open source?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331209</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331875</id>
	<title>Re:Time, money, expertiese</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245001140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You say you are not disabled- nor your employees/ contractors-<br>Look up the stats-<br>It runs about 40\% chance YOU WILL become disabled, now multiply that times those other people.</p><p>26\% of America is disabled.</p><p>Thats not a demographic?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You say you are not disabled- nor your employees/ contractors-Look up the stats-It runs about 40 \ % chance YOU WILL become disabled , now multiply that times those other people.26 \ % of America is disabled.Thats not a demographic ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You say you are not disabled- nor your employees/ contractors-Look up the stats-It runs about 40\% chance YOU WILL become disabled, now multiply that times those other people.26\% of America is disabled.Thats not a demographic?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331715</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>SL Baur</author>
	<datestamp>1244998980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"Depending on whose numbers you use, anywhere from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year &#195;" some temporarily, some permanently. In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing" Cite please?</p></div><p>Sounds to me like the same kind of statistics used to prove the evils of smoking.</p><p>Or better, if you are not allowed to smoke at your desk/keyboard, but are forced to take smoke breaks (that also rest your hands), then smoking is actually good for you.</p><p>I find switching mouse hands from right to left, left to right periodically is also a good stress reliever.</p><p>I *did* start to develop signs of something in the mid 1990s - sharp pain shooting up through my arm when I handled the mouse.  Switching mouse hands made it go away and it's never come back.</p><p>If you are suffering at a keyboard/mouse, it's definitely a workflow issue and not something that is inevitable.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Depending on whose numbers you use , anywhere from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year   " some temporarily , some permanently .
In time , almost 100 \ % of keyboard users will have trouble typing " Cite please ? Sounds to me like the same kind of statistics used to prove the evils of smoking.Or better , if you are not allowed to smoke at your desk/keyboard , but are forced to take smoke breaks ( that also rest your hands ) , then smoking is actually good for you.I find switching mouse hands from right to left , left to right periodically is also a good stress reliever.I * did * start to develop signs of something in the mid 1990s - sharp pain shooting up through my arm when I handled the mouse .
Switching mouse hands made it go away and it 's never come back.If you are suffering at a keyboard/mouse , it 's definitely a workflow issue and not something that is inevitable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Depending on whose numbers you use, anywhere from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year Ã" some temporarily, some permanently.
In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing" Cite please?Sounds to me like the same kind of statistics used to prove the evils of smoking.Or better, if you are not allowed to smoke at your desk/keyboard, but are forced to take smoke breaks (that also rest your hands), then smoking is actually good for you.I find switching mouse hands from right to left, left to right periodically is also a good stress reliever.I *did* start to develop signs of something in the mid 1990s - sharp pain shooting up through my arm when I handled the mouse.
Switching mouse hands made it go away and it's never come back.If you are suffering at a keyboard/mouse, it's definitely a workflow issue and not something that is inevitable.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331195</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28338717</id>
	<title>Handicapped?</title>
	<author>TheLink</author>
	<datestamp>1245096180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seriously though, wouldn't disabled be a far more negative term for geeks than handicapped?<br><br>After all in geek terms, if something is disabled it no longer functions.<br><br>Whereas if someone is handicapped he/she still can do stuff, just needs a bit "extra" to equalize things.<br><br>I found it rather peculiar when people switched from using the term "handicapped" to "disabled".</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously though , would n't disabled be a far more negative term for geeks than handicapped ? After all in geek terms , if something is disabled it no longer functions.Whereas if someone is handicapped he/she still can do stuff , just needs a bit " extra " to equalize things.I found it rather peculiar when people switched from using the term " handicapped " to " disabled " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously though, wouldn't disabled be a far more negative term for geeks than handicapped?After all in geek terms, if something is disabled it no longer functions.Whereas if someone is handicapped he/she still can do stuff, just needs a bit "extra" to equalize things.I found it rather peculiar when people switched from using the term "handicapped" to "disabled".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331197</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331443</id>
	<title>Cold Truth</title>
	<author>TheRealMindChild</author>
	<datestamp>1244996340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is about the law of diminishing returns. It might sound cold. It might suck. But you really need to consider why Pizza Hut doesn't offer Pickle Chocolate pizza... The effort and cost to patronize the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.01\% of potential users just isn't worth it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is about the law of diminishing returns .
It might sound cold .
It might suck .
But you really need to consider why Pizza Hut does n't offer Pickle Chocolate pizza... The effort and cost to patronize the .01 \ % of potential users just is n't worth it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is about the law of diminishing returns.
It might sound cold.
It might suck.
But you really need to consider why Pizza Hut doesn't offer Pickle Chocolate pizza... The effort and cost to patronize the .01\% of potential users just isn't worth it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331705</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>Kral\_Blbec</author>
	<datestamp>1244998800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not really. The only people who will have problems typing are those who advance into old age or some form of degenerative disease. Those who die from trauma or acute disease will never experience such problems. You can be typing along at 100 wpm and get shot in the head. I'd say that that person never experienced any problem typing. Including death in and of itself as a difficulty doesnt count.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not really .
The only people who will have problems typing are those who advance into old age or some form of degenerative disease .
Those who die from trauma or acute disease will never experience such problems .
You can be typing along at 100 wpm and get shot in the head .
I 'd say that that person never experienced any problem typing .
Including death in and of itself as a difficulty doesnt count .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not really.
The only people who will have problems typing are those who advance into old age or some form of degenerative disease.
Those who die from trauma or acute disease will never experience such problems.
You can be typing along at 100 wpm and get shot in the head.
I'd say that that person never experienced any problem typing.
Including death in and of itself as a difficulty doesnt count.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333455</id>
	<title>Re:The reason that nobody really works on this...</title>
	<author>bjourne</author>
	<datestamp>1245067200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think it's rather that it's hard for not disabled persons to identify the needs of disabled ones. For example, web developers spend a lot of time adding alt tags to image but has anyone confirmed that that enhances the browsing experience for blind people? It is also often the fact that usability features degrade accessibility. The mouse is great for non-professional computer users but is an accessibility nightmare.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's rather that it 's hard for not disabled persons to identify the needs of disabled ones .
For example , web developers spend a lot of time adding alt tags to image but has anyone confirmed that that enhances the browsing experience for blind people ?
It is also often the fact that usability features degrade accessibility .
The mouse is great for non-professional computer users but is an accessibility nightmare .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's rather that it's hard for not disabled persons to identify the needs of disabled ones.
For example, web developers spend a lot of time adding alt tags to image but has anyone confirmed that that enhances the browsing experience for blind people?
It is also often the fact that usability features degrade accessibility.
The mouse is great for non-professional computer users but is an accessibility nightmare.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331209</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331285</id>
	<title>Denial</title>
	<author>QuantumG</author>
	<datestamp>1244994960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just reading your question makes my fingers hurt.  Doing what I do every day is clearly destroying my hands but its easier to just not think about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just reading your question makes my fingers hurt .
Doing what I do every day is clearly destroying my hands but its easier to just not think about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just reading your question makes my fingers hurt.
Doing what I do every day is clearly destroying my hands but its easier to just not think about it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28334027</id>
	<title>Re:Permanently disabled geeks also exist</title>
	<author>Quothz</author>
	<datestamp>1245073920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Sometimes using his left elbow on Shift / Control keys.</p></div><p>Is he aware that there are foot pedals available that can be used for this? Most on the market are fully customizable for any keyboard/click command plus macros, although ctrl/shift/alt/click is a typical setup. Some of the systems are expandable, so you can add as many pedals as you care to deal with.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sometimes using his left elbow on Shift / Control keys.Is he aware that there are foot pedals available that can be used for this ?
Most on the market are fully customizable for any keyboard/click command plus macros , although ctrl/shift/alt/click is a typical setup .
Some of the systems are expandable , so you can add as many pedals as you care to deal with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sometimes using his left elbow on Shift / Control keys.Is he aware that there are foot pedals available that can be used for this?
Most on the market are fully customizable for any keyboard/click command plus macros, although ctrl/shift/alt/click is a typical setup.
Some of the systems are expandable, so you can add as many pedals as you care to deal with.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331937</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333085</id>
	<title>voxforge.org</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245060300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>could use some helping hands... and lips.</p><p><a href="http://voxforge.org/" title="voxforge.org" rel="nofollow">http://voxforge.org/</a> [voxforge.org] </p><p><div class="quote"><p>Why Do We Need Free GPL Speech Audio?</p><p>Most acoustic models used by 'Open Source' speech recognition (or Speech-to-Text) engines are 'Closed Source'.  They do not give you access to the speech audio and transcriptions (i.e. the speech corpus) used to create the acoustic model.</p><p>The reason for this is that Free and Open Source ('FOSS') projects are required to purchase large speech corpora with restrictive licensing.  Although there are a few instances of small FOSS speech corpora that could be used to create acoustic models, the vast majority of corpora (especially large corpora best suited to building good acoustic models) must be purchased under restrictive licenses.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>could use some helping hands... and lips.http : //voxforge.org/ [ voxforge.org ] Why Do We Need Free GPL Speech Audio ? Most acoustic models used by 'Open Source ' speech recognition ( or Speech-to-Text ) engines are 'Closed Source' .
They do not give you access to the speech audio and transcriptions ( i.e .
the speech corpus ) used to create the acoustic model.The reason for this is that Free and Open Source ( 'FOSS ' ) projects are required to purchase large speech corpora with restrictive licensing .
Although there are a few instances of small FOSS speech corpora that could be used to create acoustic models , the vast majority of corpora ( especially large corpora best suited to building good acoustic models ) must be purchased under restrictive licenses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>could use some helping hands... and lips.http://voxforge.org/ [voxforge.org] Why Do We Need Free GPL Speech Audio?Most acoustic models used by 'Open Source' speech recognition (or Speech-to-Text) engines are 'Closed Source'.
They do not give you access to the speech audio and transcriptions (i.e.
the speech corpus) used to create the acoustic model.The reason for this is that Free and Open Source ('FOSS') projects are required to purchase large speech corpora with restrictive licensing.
Although there are a few instances of small FOSS speech corpora that could be used to create acoustic models, the vast majority of corpora (especially large corpora best suited to building good acoustic models) must be purchased under restrictive licenses.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332427</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>Plunky</author>
	<datestamp>1245007980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I particularly enjoyed one training where it was clear that we should go outside once an our and look at things far in the distance, to avoid eye strain. Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div></blockquote><p>I've worked a Data Entry job in the UK (for a year and half) where I was staring at a screen and typing continuously at 10,000+ kph and we were required to log out and have a 10 minute eye break after every 60 minutes of work. Actually, the rules said that we just had to have a break from the keyboard/screen and could carry out other tasks but we were in a dedicated data entry centre so there was no other tasks available and it was a general break.</p><p>It could be that your work doesn't involve intensive keyboard activity actually requiring a separate break (eg programming work can involve 'thinking' while you look at the plants) but if your OHSA training says you should have a break from the keyboard/screen then you really should. Just do something else and if they don't have anything else for you to do then take a piss. Even in the USA can they fire you for doing what you are told? I can't see that you would be required to damage yourself for a daily wage..</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I particularly enjoyed one training where it was clear that we should go outside once an our and look at things far in the distance , to avoid eye strain .
Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired .
: ) I 've worked a Data Entry job in the UK ( for a year and half ) where I was staring at a screen and typing continuously at 10,000 + kph and we were required to log out and have a 10 minute eye break after every 60 minutes of work .
Actually , the rules said that we just had to have a break from the keyboard/screen and could carry out other tasks but we were in a dedicated data entry centre so there was no other tasks available and it was a general break.It could be that your work does n't involve intensive keyboard activity actually requiring a separate break ( eg programming work can involve 'thinking ' while you look at the plants ) but if your OHSA training says you should have a break from the keyboard/screen then you really should .
Just do something else and if they do n't have anything else for you to do then take a piss .
Even in the USA can they fire you for doing what you are told ?
I ca n't see that you would be required to damage yourself for a daily wage. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I particularly enjoyed one training where it was clear that we should go outside once an our and look at things far in the distance, to avoid eye strain.
Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired.
:)I've worked a Data Entry job in the UK (for a year and half) where I was staring at a screen and typing continuously at 10,000+ kph and we were required to log out and have a 10 minute eye break after every 60 minutes of work.
Actually, the rules said that we just had to have a break from the keyboard/screen and could carry out other tasks but we were in a dedicated data entry centre so there was no other tasks available and it was a general break.It could be that your work doesn't involve intensive keyboard activity actually requiring a separate break (eg programming work can involve 'thinking' while you look at the plants) but if your OHSA training says you should have a break from the keyboard/screen then you really should.
Just do something else and if they don't have anything else for you to do then take a piss.
Even in the USA can they fire you for doing what you are told?
I can't see that you would be required to damage yourself for a daily wage..
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28342971</id>
	<title>Re:Apple - I hate you!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245074520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's wrong with your other nine finger tips?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's wrong with your other nine finger tips ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's wrong with your other nine finger tips?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331883</id>
	<title>This is a joke of a discussion.</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1245001200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because really, the problem is, you can't just go and "disable enable" a user interface.  A user interface is a rich experience tailored to its users.  If you really wanted to have computers that were enabled for the disabled, you need to be prepared to have entirely different interaction experiences.</p><p>Like, blindness is the worst.  Obviously.  The whole you can go where you see it metaphor for forms is just wrong for blind people.  What you really need, for them, is almost like menus were in the DOS apps of old - press 1 for this, press 2 for this... and so on.  And, you need way more sound.  Like, every keystroke should produce an audible click and different items should have different pitches so you don't have to wade through the a whole voice menu to do something.  There's a million things you can do to make a user experience richer and tailor it to the user regardless of how many limbs they have... a load of details that you can account for, engineering to be done, and pretending that a few add on utilities or even tweaks to a U/I will do the trick is just beside the point.  You need a whole new class of applications.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because really , the problem is , you ca n't just go and " disable enable " a user interface .
A user interface is a rich experience tailored to its users .
If you really wanted to have computers that were enabled for the disabled , you need to be prepared to have entirely different interaction experiences.Like , blindness is the worst .
Obviously. The whole you can go where you see it metaphor for forms is just wrong for blind people .
What you really need , for them , is almost like menus were in the DOS apps of old - press 1 for this , press 2 for this... and so on .
And , you need way more sound .
Like , every keystroke should produce an audible click and different items should have different pitches so you do n't have to wade through the a whole voice menu to do something .
There 's a million things you can do to make a user experience richer and tailor it to the user regardless of how many limbs they have... a load of details that you can account for , engineering to be done , and pretending that a few add on utilities or even tweaks to a U/I will do the trick is just beside the point .
You need a whole new class of applications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because really, the problem is, you can't just go and "disable enable" a user interface.
A user interface is a rich experience tailored to its users.
If you really wanted to have computers that were enabled for the disabled, you need to be prepared to have entirely different interaction experiences.Like, blindness is the worst.
Obviously.  The whole you can go where you see it metaphor for forms is just wrong for blind people.
What you really need, for them, is almost like menus were in the DOS apps of old - press 1 for this, press 2 for this... and so on.
And, you need way more sound.
Like, every keystroke should produce an audible click and different items should have different pitches so you don't have to wade through the a whole voice menu to do something.
There's a million things you can do to make a user experience richer and tailor it to the user regardless of how many limbs they have... a load of details that you can account for, engineering to be done, and pretending that a few add on utilities or even tweaks to a U/I will do the trick is just beside the point.
You need a whole new class of applications.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331397</id>
	<title>A better command structure?</title>
	<author>argent</author>
	<datestamp>1244995920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>verb-noun requires less typing</p><p>Instead of "search forward left bracket leave mark search forward right bracket<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..."</p><p>You say "find left bracket change matching", which is the verbal equivalent of "f[c\%" in vi.</p><p>Not quite "change index", but THAT could be a macro for "f[c\%".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>verb-noun requires less typingInstead of " search forward left bracket leave mark search forward right bracket ... " You say " find left bracket change matching " , which is the verbal equivalent of " f [ c \ % " in vi.Not quite " change index " , but THAT could be a macro for " f [ c \ % " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>verb-noun requires less typingInstead of "search forward left bracket leave mark search forward right bracket ..."You say "find left bracket change matching", which is the verbal equivalent of "f[c\%" in vi.Not quite "change index", but THAT could be a macro for "f[c\%".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333547</id>
	<title>Re:Permanently disabled geeks also exist</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245068520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>(although apparently voice recognition software isn't so great for programming)</p></div><p>Has she tried COBOL?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( although apparently voice recognition software is n't so great for programming ) Has she tried COBOL ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(although apparently voice recognition software isn't so great for programming)Has she tried COBOL?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331245</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331255</id>
	<title>Not just keyboards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244994660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not repetitive use of keyboards that is ultimately going to get me into trouble.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not repetitive use of keyboards that is ultimately going to get me into trouble .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not repetitive use of keyboards that is ultimately going to get me into trouble.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332941</id>
	<title>almost 100\%?</title>
	<author>OrangeTide</author>
	<datestamp>1245058320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nearly 130\% of people will have difficult with basic arithmetic. And over 1\% of people breath oxygen on a regular basis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nearly 130 \ % of people will have difficult with basic arithmetic .
And over 1 \ % of people breath oxygen on a regular basis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nearly 130\% of people will have difficult with basic arithmetic.
And over 1\% of people breath oxygen on a regular basis.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331209</id>
	<title>The reason that nobody really works on this...</title>
	<author>adamkennedy</author>
	<datestamp>1244994300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; By spending time now building the interfaces and<br>&gt; tools that will enable them to use computers more<br>&gt; easily, you will also be ensuring your own ability<br>&gt; to use them in the future.</p><p>Nobody thinks they are going to be disabled.</p><p>It's as simple as that I'm afraid.</p><p>In the Perl world I know one major hacker that has done a ton of accessibility work. In his case, it's his daughter that has the the disability, so he has a direct and immediate interest in helping her.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; By spending time now building the interfaces and &gt; tools that will enable them to use computers more &gt; easily , you will also be ensuring your own ability &gt; to use them in the future.Nobody thinks they are going to be disabled.It 's as simple as that I 'm afraid.In the Perl world I know one major hacker that has done a ton of accessibility work .
In his case , it 's his daughter that has the the disability , so he has a direct and immediate interest in helping her .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; By spending time now building the interfaces and&gt; tools that will enable them to use computers more&gt; easily, you will also be ensuring your own ability&gt; to use them in the future.Nobody thinks they are going to be disabled.It's as simple as that I'm afraid.In the Perl world I know one major hacker that has done a ton of accessibility work.
In his case, it's his daughter that has the the disability, so he has a direct and immediate interest in helping her.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332305</id>
	<title>Change the system</title>
	<author>Tinctorius</author>
	<datestamp>1245006660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Probably somewhat related: I think the underlying system of "user" interfaces should be changed in such a way that window managers or terminals aren't talking to event or read loops, but rather to object models. I'm still trying to work out how <em>exactly</em> that's going to work for text editors and games, but it's definitely a step towards a more accessable operating system, among other things.</p><p>The idea is that all applications provide a (possibly dynamic) schema of all their mutable objects, and an interface to interact with them. A layer between the application and the user will translate it into a user interface; it will be doing just a bit more than drawing windows and widgets (GUI) or putting characters in the right places (CLI, curses).</p><p>If that 'UI' standard is made properly, then not only making keybindings will be easy and uniform, but so will making bindings between STT and actions. The bridge between the application and TTS (or braille output) could also be covered by the aforementioned layer.</p><p>(btw, if there's any prior art on this, I'd like to know<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) )</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably somewhat related : I think the underlying system of " user " interfaces should be changed in such a way that window managers or terminals are n't talking to event or read loops , but rather to object models .
I 'm still trying to work out how exactly that 's going to work for text editors and games , but it 's definitely a step towards a more accessable operating system , among other things.The idea is that all applications provide a ( possibly dynamic ) schema of all their mutable objects , and an interface to interact with them .
A layer between the application and the user will translate it into a user interface ; it will be doing just a bit more than drawing windows and widgets ( GUI ) or putting characters in the right places ( CLI , curses ) .If that 'UI ' standard is made properly , then not only making keybindings will be easy and uniform , but so will making bindings between STT and actions .
The bridge between the application and TTS ( or braille output ) could also be covered by the aforementioned layer .
( btw , if there 's any prior art on this , I 'd like to know : ) )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably somewhat related: I think the underlying system of "user" interfaces should be changed in such a way that window managers or terminals aren't talking to event or read loops, but rather to object models.
I'm still trying to work out how exactly that's going to work for text editors and games, but it's definitely a step towards a more accessable operating system, among other things.The idea is that all applications provide a (possibly dynamic) schema of all their mutable objects, and an interface to interact with them.
A layer between the application and the user will translate it into a user interface; it will be doing just a bit more than drawing windows and widgets (GUI) or putting characters in the right places (CLI, curses).If that 'UI' standard is made properly, then not only making keybindings will be easy and uniform, but so will making bindings between STT and actions.
The bridge between the application and TTS (or braille output) could also be covered by the aforementioned layer.
(btw, if there's any prior art on this, I'd like to know :) )</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331377</id>
	<title>Light operated Mouse and Keyboard?</title>
	<author>GrpA</author>
	<datestamp>1244995620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about the LOMAK?</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOMAK" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOMAK</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>GrpA</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about the LOMAK ? http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOMAK [ wikipedia.org ] GrpA</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about the LOMAK?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOMAK [wikipedia.org]GrpA</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331577</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244997480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This may sound dumb Is death not a 100\% fact?<br>good enough citation if you ask me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This may sound dumb Is death not a 100 \ % fact ? good enough citation if you ask me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This may sound dumb Is death not a 100\% fact?good enough citation if you ask me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331195</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28357011</id>
	<title>Re:My work has similiar concerns...</title>
	<author>FullBandwidth</author>
	<datestamp>1245166860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My daughter is in the same situation. JAWS for Windows, from what I gather, is a kind of video driver that intercepts Win API calls to display text and turns those into speech. Seems straightforward enough, right? However, in a misguided bid to "distinguish" their software, many vendors choose to skip the API and display their own proprietary widgets on the screen, consisting of text and graphics. JAWS is lost, and if those contain system-modal dialogs, a blind user is out of business. Norton Antivirus is an insidious example of this.

Likewise, Flash, Silverlight and all those graphics-based content systems are completely inaccessible to the blind. Frankly I have yet to see one flash-based web site that offered any advantage over text-based sites. We went from cave paintings, to the written and spoken word, only to have the computer return us to the cave painting days.

Short of developing and enforcing standards for accessibility, I don't have any ideas of how to tame this rampant abuse of the disabled.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My daughter is in the same situation .
JAWS for Windows , from what I gather , is a kind of video driver that intercepts Win API calls to display text and turns those into speech .
Seems straightforward enough , right ?
However , in a misguided bid to " distinguish " their software , many vendors choose to skip the API and display their own proprietary widgets on the screen , consisting of text and graphics .
JAWS is lost , and if those contain system-modal dialogs , a blind user is out of business .
Norton Antivirus is an insidious example of this .
Likewise , Flash , Silverlight and all those graphics-based content systems are completely inaccessible to the blind .
Frankly I have yet to see one flash-based web site that offered any advantage over text-based sites .
We went from cave paintings , to the written and spoken word , only to have the computer return us to the cave painting days .
Short of developing and enforcing standards for accessibility , I do n't have any ideas of how to tame this rampant abuse of the disabled .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My daughter is in the same situation.
JAWS for Windows, from what I gather, is a kind of video driver that intercepts Win API calls to display text and turns those into speech.
Seems straightforward enough, right?
However, in a misguided bid to "distinguish" their software, many vendors choose to skip the API and display their own proprietary widgets on the screen, consisting of text and graphics.
JAWS is lost, and if those contain system-modal dialogs, a blind user is out of business.
Norton Antivirus is an insidious example of this.
Likewise, Flash, Silverlight and all those graphics-based content systems are completely inaccessible to the blind.
Frankly I have yet to see one flash-based web site that offered any advantage over text-based sites.
We went from cave paintings, to the written and spoken word, only to have the computer return us to the cave painting days.
Short of developing and enforcing standards for accessibility, I don't have any ideas of how to tame this rampant abuse of the disabled.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331455</id>
	<title>one word...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244996460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>girls</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>girls</tokentext>
<sentencetext>girls</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331835</id>
	<title>Negative Experience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245000420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please don't mod me troll... posting AC for a reason.</p><p>Honestly--my experience working with visually impaired individuals in the past (university helpdesk) was so OVERWHELMINGLY negative... I'd<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...go out of my way not to help at present.  Four or five blind students, and university disability services giving us basic...legal threats to help them with their problems when it was beyond capacity of our helpdesk (and why would you threaten someone in your own university anyway?!)</p><p>To boot--all five of them refused to use university provided services, and insisted on using their *own* tools.  I don't mean JAWS.  I mean they wouldn't use our mail clients and insisted on using AOL, MSN, hotmail, whatever.  Instead of using student network drives, they'd carry around zip disks (urgh).  Every time one of these assholes called, it'd be nearly 2-4 hours of wasted desk time on a call I wasn't allowed to let the techs refuse to support. I once had to waste three days of time documenting effort to get hotmail to change the tab order of their login screen because of the assholes at disability services...  No--forwarding his email wasn't good enough--he had to use hotmail, and they can't change his interface because then he can't act independently or some shit...</p><p>Over the course of a year, these five students accounted for nearly 3\% of the quantity, and probably more than that in time of the calls (15K students, well over 40k incidents/semester)--and almost ALL of their problems were ones that could have been prevented.  They thought they were special because they couldn't see, and somehow deserved support beyond the normal incident policy.  Disability services basically made us support whatever crap they were on, even if it was in violation of campus IT policy.  Old version of unsupported software?  Too bad...</p><p>I know there's lots of better people out there--but the taste has left me with such an overwhelmingly negative experience--I have no desire to assist that community<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...at all.</p><p>I'm just saying--maybe some of the community needs to watch the image it's broadcasting.  If I meet a blind guy in need of support that isn't a PITA someday--hopefully my opinion will change... but I'm going to go in expecting the worst.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please do n't mod me troll... posting AC for a reason.Honestly--my experience working with visually impaired individuals in the past ( university helpdesk ) was so OVERWHELMINGLY negative... I 'd ...go out of my way not to help at present .
Four or five blind students , and university disability services giving us basic...legal threats to help them with their problems when it was beyond capacity of our helpdesk ( and why would you threaten someone in your own university anyway ? !
) To boot--all five of them refused to use university provided services , and insisted on using their * own * tools .
I do n't mean JAWS .
I mean they would n't use our mail clients and insisted on using AOL , MSN , hotmail , whatever .
Instead of using student network drives , they 'd carry around zip disks ( urgh ) .
Every time one of these assholes called , it 'd be nearly 2-4 hours of wasted desk time on a call I was n't allowed to let the techs refuse to support .
I once had to waste three days of time documenting effort to get hotmail to change the tab order of their login screen because of the assholes at disability services... No--forwarding his email was n't good enough--he had to use hotmail , and they ca n't change his interface because then he ca n't act independently or some shit...Over the course of a year , these five students accounted for nearly 3 \ % of the quantity , and probably more than that in time of the calls ( 15K students , well over 40k incidents/semester ) --and almost ALL of their problems were ones that could have been prevented .
They thought they were special because they could n't see , and somehow deserved support beyond the normal incident policy .
Disability services basically made us support whatever crap they were on , even if it was in violation of campus IT policy .
Old version of unsupported software ?
Too bad...I know there 's lots of better people out there--but the taste has left me with such an overwhelmingly negative experience--I have no desire to assist that community ...at all.I 'm just saying--maybe some of the community needs to watch the image it 's broadcasting .
If I meet a blind guy in need of support that is n't a PITA someday--hopefully my opinion will change... but I 'm going to go in expecting the worst .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please don't mod me troll... posting AC for a reason.Honestly--my experience working with visually impaired individuals in the past (university helpdesk) was so OVERWHELMINGLY negative... I'd ...go out of my way not to help at present.
Four or five blind students, and university disability services giving us basic...legal threats to help them with their problems when it was beyond capacity of our helpdesk (and why would you threaten someone in your own university anyway?!
)To boot--all five of them refused to use university provided services, and insisted on using their *own* tools.
I don't mean JAWS.
I mean they wouldn't use our mail clients and insisted on using AOL, MSN, hotmail, whatever.
Instead of using student network drives, they'd carry around zip disks (urgh).
Every time one of these assholes called, it'd be nearly 2-4 hours of wasted desk time on a call I wasn't allowed to let the techs refuse to support.
I once had to waste three days of time documenting effort to get hotmail to change the tab order of their login screen because of the assholes at disability services...  No--forwarding his email wasn't good enough--he had to use hotmail, and they can't change his interface because then he can't act independently or some shit...Over the course of a year, these five students accounted for nearly 3\% of the quantity, and probably more than that in time of the calls (15K students, well over 40k incidents/semester)--and almost ALL of their problems were ones that could have been prevented.
They thought they were special because they couldn't see, and somehow deserved support beyond the normal incident policy.
Disability services basically made us support whatever crap they were on, even if it was in violation of campus IT policy.
Old version of unsupported software?
Too bad...I know there's lots of better people out there--but the taste has left me with such an overwhelmingly negative experience--I have no desire to assist that community ...at all.I'm just saying--maybe some of the community needs to watch the image it's broadcasting.
If I meet a blind guy in need of support that isn't a PITA someday--hopefully my opinion will change... but I'm going to go in expecting the worst.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332095</id>
	<title>Re:Get ready</title>
	<author>kramerd</author>
	<datestamp>1245003720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oddly enough, there is a discount funeral store near me. You buy the package today, and when you die, everything is already taken of.</p><p>Full disclosure, I haven't bought a coffin yet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oddly enough , there is a discount funeral store near me .
You buy the package today , and when you die , everything is already taken of.Full disclosure , I have n't bought a coffin yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oddly enough, there is a discount funeral store near me.
You buy the package today, and when you die, everything is already taken of.Full disclosure, I haven't bought a coffin yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331265</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333829</id>
	<title>Re:Cold Truth</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1245071880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can understand the desire that if you were to suffer a severe hand injury, you'd like to be able to continue being all geeky with computers. But personally I don't think that's what I'd really do, sure better accessability would make me suck less but I'd still suck. Without a good interface I'd just grow incredibly frustrated trying to get the flow of my mind through the trickle of my fingers. I think I'd just find a way to get by and instead focus on things that involve talking to people instead. It'd be tough but I think as disabled you have to accept that you've been dealt a new hand of cards (pun intended) and maybe play them differently.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can understand the desire that if you were to suffer a severe hand injury , you 'd like to be able to continue being all geeky with computers .
But personally I do n't think that 's what I 'd really do , sure better accessability would make me suck less but I 'd still suck .
Without a good interface I 'd just grow incredibly frustrated trying to get the flow of my mind through the trickle of my fingers .
I think I 'd just find a way to get by and instead focus on things that involve talking to people instead .
It 'd be tough but I think as disabled you have to accept that you 've been dealt a new hand of cards ( pun intended ) and maybe play them differently .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can understand the desire that if you were to suffer a severe hand injury, you'd like to be able to continue being all geeky with computers.
But personally I don't think that's what I'd really do, sure better accessability would make me suck less but I'd still suck.
Without a good interface I'd just grow incredibly frustrated trying to get the flow of my mind through the trickle of my fingers.
I think I'd just find a way to get by and instead focus on things that involve talking to people instead.
It'd be tough but I think as disabled you have to accept that you've been dealt a new hand of cards (pun intended) and maybe play them differently.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331649</id>
	<title>Emacspeak</title>
	<author>SL Baur</author>
	<datestamp>1244998200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>My question to Slashdot: Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable, what's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled?</p></div><p>Nothing at all and I added Emacspeak to XEmacs supported packages just as soon as I was made aware of it.  The demo I got from its author, T.V. Raman, made a lasting impression on me.  Being blind doesn't mean you have to be handicapped.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My question to Slashdot : Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable , what 's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled ? Nothing at all and I added Emacspeak to XEmacs supported packages just as soon as I was made aware of it .
The demo I got from its author , T.V .
Raman , made a lasting impression on me .
Being blind does n't mean you have to be handicapped .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My question to Slashdot: Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable, what's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled?Nothing at all and I added Emacspeak to XEmacs supported packages just as soon as I was made aware of it.
The demo I got from its author, T.V.
Raman, made a lasting impression on me.
Being blind doesn't mean you have to be handicapped.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331811</id>
	<title>Bad premise</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244999940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Follow the link for more background on this reader's query.</p><p>Apparently I have a disability that prevents me from seeing the link referred to in the story.</p><p>&gt; Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable</p><p>Somehow we got from 60,000-100,000 people injured either temporarily or permanently every year to "we're all going to be disabled".  I don't see anything that makes this conclusion logical at all.  It's almost as if the writer hasn't really done any research, and OH MY GOD MY HAND!!!!!  AGHH!!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Follow the link for more background on this reader 's query.Apparently I have a disability that prevents me from seeing the link referred to in the story. &gt; Given that some form of disability is almost inevitableSomehow we got from 60,000-100,000 people injured either temporarily or permanently every year to " we 're all going to be disabled " .
I do n't see anything that makes this conclusion logical at all .
It 's almost as if the writer has n't really done any research , and OH MY GOD MY HAND ! ! ! ! !
AGHH ! ! ! !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Follow the link for more background on this reader's query.Apparently I have a disability that prevents me from seeing the link referred to in the story.&gt; Given that some form of disability is almost inevitableSomehow we got from 60,000-100,000 people injured either temporarily or permanently every year to "we're all going to be disabled".
I don't see anything that makes this conclusion logical at all.
It's almost as if the writer hasn't really done any research, and OH MY GOD MY HAND!!!!!
AGHH!!!!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331521</id>
	<title>Text to speech</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244996940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Text to speech in Linux actually works pretty well according to the people I've talked to who use it, in some cases better than the windows options.  (GTK integration is pretty complete to my understanding).  Some complaints of stuttering though.  Ubuntu, and probably others, even have text to speech available in the installer.</p><p>The big problem is that the kernel likes to randomly drop one the text to speech modules thats needed for geeks who want to hear the start up messages.</p><p>Braille readers are a much bigger problem than the text to speech in Linux, the old serial port ones work fine, but expansion serial ports don't work right for it, and those are getting hard to find.  Very few USB braille readers have Linux drivers.  (Which i don't get, braille readers + a command line interface seem such a good match).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Text to speech in Linux actually works pretty well according to the people I 've talked to who use it , in some cases better than the windows options .
( GTK integration is pretty complete to my understanding ) .
Some complaints of stuttering though .
Ubuntu , and probably others , even have text to speech available in the installer.The big problem is that the kernel likes to randomly drop one the text to speech modules thats needed for geeks who want to hear the start up messages.Braille readers are a much bigger problem than the text to speech in Linux , the old serial port ones work fine , but expansion serial ports do n't work right for it , and those are getting hard to find .
Very few USB braille readers have Linux drivers .
( Which i do n't get , braille readers + a command line interface seem such a good match ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Text to speech in Linux actually works pretty well according to the people I've talked to who use it, in some cases better than the windows options.
(GTK integration is pretty complete to my understanding).
Some complaints of stuttering though.
Ubuntu, and probably others, even have text to speech available in the installer.The big problem is that the kernel likes to randomly drop one the text to speech modules thats needed for geeks who want to hear the start up messages.Braille readers are a much bigger problem than the text to speech in Linux, the old serial port ones work fine, but expansion serial ports don't work right for it, and those are getting hard to find.
Very few USB braille readers have Linux drivers.
(Which i don't get, braille readers + a command line interface seem such a good match).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28353167</id>
	<title>Re:Get ready</title>
	<author>badkarmadayaccount</author>
	<datestamp>1245144840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331265</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28349689</id>
	<title>Geeks do bear gifts</title>
	<author>MacVic</author>
	<datestamp>1245175560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I read most of the comments with interest (having stepped in late). 'Layabout' first asked why geeks don't do more to help fellow geeks navigate around regular computers, when their limbs don't cooperate. It is really annoying when a sprained finger could mean no texting, or no email, for a week or more - imagine how it is when one has no fingers to begin with, or they don't respond the way the brain thinks they should.<br> <br>

Actually, some of the really good software written to solve some 'disability' issues is, in fact, created by people who know what it is to live in a world designed for other people - emacspeak, JAWS, and so on.<br> <br>

Still, it is the simple things that are really confounding. We have found, serendipitously or however, that gadgets like joysticks make cheap and workable substitutes for 'traditional' WIMP solutions like the mouse, and its fiddly little fingerswitches and scroll button add-ons (that look so cool till you notice they are really useless for someone whose fingers don't work so well).<br> <br>

It would be really great if more folk, who have responded so deeply from their hearts to Layabout's questions, could step around and look at <a href="http://skid.org.in/" title="skid.org.in" rel="nofollow">SKID</a> [skid.org.in], a Ruby approach to addressing such issues. Most of the code at SKID is written by students, who use this platform to use their imaginations in ways that regular code exercises do not excite, because these address real world problems, helping more people to freely and inexpensively use computers, when their limbs and sensory functions don't work the way that computer and peripheral designers think they do. SKID is a place to let your geekination flow - to virtually dump that keyboard, mouse, monitor and all the stuff that sometimes hinders more than it helps.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I read most of the comments with interest ( having stepped in late ) .
'Layabout ' first asked why geeks do n't do more to help fellow geeks navigate around regular computers , when their limbs do n't cooperate .
It is really annoying when a sprained finger could mean no texting , or no email , for a week or more - imagine how it is when one has no fingers to begin with , or they do n't respond the way the brain thinks they should .
Actually , some of the really good software written to solve some 'disability ' issues is , in fact , created by people who know what it is to live in a world designed for other people - emacspeak , JAWS , and so on .
Still , it is the simple things that are really confounding .
We have found , serendipitously or however , that gadgets like joysticks make cheap and workable substitutes for 'traditional ' WIMP solutions like the mouse , and its fiddly little fingerswitches and scroll button add-ons ( that look so cool till you notice they are really useless for someone whose fingers do n't work so well ) .
It would be really great if more folk , who have responded so deeply from their hearts to Layabout 's questions , could step around and look at SKID [ skid.org.in ] , a Ruby approach to addressing such issues .
Most of the code at SKID is written by students , who use this platform to use their imaginations in ways that regular code exercises do not excite , because these address real world problems , helping more people to freely and inexpensively use computers , when their limbs and sensory functions do n't work the way that computer and peripheral designers think they do .
SKID is a place to let your geekination flow - to virtually dump that keyboard , mouse , monitor and all the stuff that sometimes hinders more than it helps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read most of the comments with interest (having stepped in late).
'Layabout' first asked why geeks don't do more to help fellow geeks navigate around regular computers, when their limbs don't cooperate.
It is really annoying when a sprained finger could mean no texting, or no email, for a week or more - imagine how it is when one has no fingers to begin with, or they don't respond the way the brain thinks they should.
Actually, some of the really good software written to solve some 'disability' issues is, in fact, created by people who know what it is to live in a world designed for other people - emacspeak, JAWS, and so on.
Still, it is the simple things that are really confounding.
We have found, serendipitously or however, that gadgets like joysticks make cheap and workable substitutes for 'traditional' WIMP solutions like the mouse, and its fiddly little fingerswitches and scroll button add-ons (that look so cool till you notice they are really useless for someone whose fingers don't work so well).
It would be really great if more folk, who have responded so deeply from their hearts to Layabout's questions, could step around and look at SKID [skid.org.in], a Ruby approach to addressing such issues.
Most of the code at SKID is written by students, who use this platform to use their imaginations in ways that regular code exercises do not excite, because these address real world problems, helping more people to freely and inexpensively use computers, when their limbs and sensory functions don't work the way that computer and peripheral designers think they do.
SKID is a place to let your geekination flow - to virtually dump that keyboard, mouse, monitor and all the stuff that sometimes hinders more than it helps.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331983</id>
	<title>It's being done.  Now!</title>
	<author>Feldercarb.Frac</author>
	<datestamp>1245002280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I won't get into discussions about the "nobility" of working to help our fellow man and I won't get into discussions about the "profitability" of developing for the disabled.

If you are wrapped up in "profitability" or "nobility", then you're looking at the wrong entity for this discussion and you'll most likely never understand why a person would do what layabout is asking.  Note, I did not say you wouldn't, but it's more likely that you wont.

On the other hand, if you know someone who is disabled, in your family or not, then you may have a better understanding.

I fall into the later category and have a company who's sole purpose at this time is to develop systems which will allow people with disabilities to interact with computers and with other people.  While it's not a highly profitable business at this time, we have some items in development that could be very beneficial to people whether they have a physical or cognitive disability, or no disability at all.  Our current development cycle has the first two systems coming on the market before the end of this year.

The amazing thing is that if you think about it, building a system for the disabled is not much more difficult than a general purpose system.  The only thing that makes it difficult is the way you think about it.

And for anyone who thinks the possibility of becoming disabled is remote, remember...you're only one head injury away.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wo n't get into discussions about the " nobility " of working to help our fellow man and I wo n't get into discussions about the " profitability " of developing for the disabled .
If you are wrapped up in " profitability " or " nobility " , then you 're looking at the wrong entity for this discussion and you 'll most likely never understand why a person would do what layabout is asking .
Note , I did not say you would n't , but it 's more likely that you wont .
On the other hand , if you know someone who is disabled , in your family or not , then you may have a better understanding .
I fall into the later category and have a company who 's sole purpose at this time is to develop systems which will allow people with disabilities to interact with computers and with other people .
While it 's not a highly profitable business at this time , we have some items in development that could be very beneficial to people whether they have a physical or cognitive disability , or no disability at all .
Our current development cycle has the first two systems coming on the market before the end of this year .
The amazing thing is that if you think about it , building a system for the disabled is not much more difficult than a general purpose system .
The only thing that makes it difficult is the way you think about it .
And for anyone who thinks the possibility of becoming disabled is remote , remember...you 're only one head injury away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I won't get into discussions about the "nobility" of working to help our fellow man and I won't get into discussions about the "profitability" of developing for the disabled.
If you are wrapped up in "profitability" or "nobility", then you're looking at the wrong entity for this discussion and you'll most likely never understand why a person would do what layabout is asking.
Note, I did not say you wouldn't, but it's more likely that you wont.
On the other hand, if you know someone who is disabled, in your family or not, then you may have a better understanding.
I fall into the later category and have a company who's sole purpose at this time is to develop systems which will allow people with disabilities to interact with computers and with other people.
While it's not a highly profitable business at this time, we have some items in development that could be very beneficial to people whether they have a physical or cognitive disability, or no disability at all.
Our current development cycle has the first two systems coming on the market before the end of this year.
The amazing thing is that if you think about it, building a system for the disabled is not much more difficult than a general purpose system.
The only thing that makes it difficult is the way you think about it.
And for anyone who thinks the possibility of becoming disabled is remote, remember...you're only one head injury away.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333433</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245066960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm so glad you made that point!</p><p>My brother is high in the corporate ladder for a major IT company. He has a home office and flies to far off locations about once a month. I laugh when he complains about job related pain. (to be fair, he does work long hours and puts up with the mental stress of dealing with morons that can't figure out how to move office equipment from one floor to another)</p><p>Why do I laugh at him? I like working with my hands and decided to forgo computers and do auto collision repair. Real pain from work injuries is something he'll never know. "My hands hurt from typing so much..." Bah!...wait till you have a piece of welding slag bounce into your shoe and your sock catches on fire before you can get your shoe off!</p><p>We laugh at these cubicle idiots whose worse injury in their life is a paper cut. How many acronyms are there for cubicle related job problems? I'm not saying what they do isn't important and may have some side effects but SUCK IT UP PEOPLE!<br>I spend they day in the Florida heat, working with dangerous tools, heavy parts and equipment and dangerous chemicals. Along with making good money at the end of the day I have the satisfaction of accomplishing something physical. There is a nice sense of satisfaction when you've taken that car with a crushed quarter panel and have it cut out, replaced, rewelded and ready for the paint shop before you go home</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm so glad you made that point ! My brother is high in the corporate ladder for a major IT company .
He has a home office and flies to far off locations about once a month .
I laugh when he complains about job related pain .
( to be fair , he does work long hours and puts up with the mental stress of dealing with morons that ca n't figure out how to move office equipment from one floor to another ) Why do I laugh at him ?
I like working with my hands and decided to forgo computers and do auto collision repair .
Real pain from work injuries is something he 'll never know .
" My hands hurt from typing so much... " Bah ! ...wait till you have a piece of welding slag bounce into your shoe and your sock catches on fire before you can get your shoe off ! We laugh at these cubicle idiots whose worse injury in their life is a paper cut .
How many acronyms are there for cubicle related job problems ?
I 'm not saying what they do is n't important and may have some side effects but SUCK IT UP PEOPLE ! I spend they day in the Florida heat , working with dangerous tools , heavy parts and equipment and dangerous chemicals .
Along with making good money at the end of the day I have the satisfaction of accomplishing something physical .
There is a nice sense of satisfaction when you 've taken that car with a crushed quarter panel and have it cut out , replaced , rewelded and ready for the paint shop before you go home</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm so glad you made that point!My brother is high in the corporate ladder for a major IT company.
He has a home office and flies to far off locations about once a month.
I laugh when he complains about job related pain.
(to be fair, he does work long hours and puts up with the mental stress of dealing with morons that can't figure out how to move office equipment from one floor to another)Why do I laugh at him?
I like working with my hands and decided to forgo computers and do auto collision repair.
Real pain from work injuries is something he'll never know.
"My hands hurt from typing so much..." Bah!...wait till you have a piece of welding slag bounce into your shoe and your sock catches on fire before you can get your shoe off!We laugh at these cubicle idiots whose worse injury in their life is a paper cut.
How many acronyms are there for cubicle related job problems?
I'm not saying what they do isn't important and may have some side effects but SUCK IT UP PEOPLE!I spend they day in the Florida heat, working with dangerous tools, heavy parts and equipment and dangerous chemicals.
Along with making good money at the end of the day I have the satisfaction of accomplishing something physical.
There is a nice sense of satisfaction when you've taken that car with a crushed quarter panel and have it cut out, replaced, rewelded and ready for the paint shop before you go home</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333609</id>
	<title>Re:Oh yeah...</title>
	<author>Mr. Underbridge</author>
	<datestamp>1245069300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>What fraction of disabled geeks also can't speak?</i>
</p><p>To echo what Andy said, folks with CP may be one such example.  My nephew has it - he can't speak pretty much at all, and his motor control isn't good either.  But he's pretty danged smart.  He has some sort of specialized computer, but I think it has dedicated software.  I have tried looking for something to help him get into programming (his dream is to be a video games programmer), but I've turned up very little.
</p><p>So yeah, there is a pretty sizeable need there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What fraction of disabled geeks also ca n't speak ?
To echo what Andy said , folks with CP may be one such example .
My nephew has it - he ca n't speak pretty much at all , and his motor control is n't good either .
But he 's pretty danged smart .
He has some sort of specialized computer , but I think it has dedicated software .
I have tried looking for something to help him get into programming ( his dream is to be a video games programmer ) , but I 've turned up very little .
So yeah , there is a pretty sizeable need there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> What fraction of disabled geeks also can't speak?
To echo what Andy said, folks with CP may be one such example.
My nephew has it - he can't speak pretty much at all, and his motor control isn't good either.
But he's pretty danged smart.
He has some sort of specialized computer, but I think it has dedicated software.
I have tried looking for something to help him get into programming (his dream is to be a video games programmer), but I've turned up very little.
So yeah, there is a pretty sizeable need there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333731</id>
	<title>What is keeping me? Why should I?</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1245070740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about this: disabled people designing their own interfaces.</p><p>I know it is difficult, but they are best positioned to actually effect change.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about this : disabled people designing their own interfaces.I know it is difficult , but they are best positioned to actually effect change .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about this: disabled people designing their own interfaces.I know it is difficult, but they are best positioned to actually effect change.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332181</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245004920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about undead keyboard users?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about undead keyboard users ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about undead keyboard users?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331327</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28338005</id>
	<title>Re:Oh yeah...</title>
	<author>Tokah</author>
	<datestamp>1245093180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm losing my hand and jaw function simultaneously. By the time I can't hamgrip a pencil in each hand and type, I won't be able to talk or chew either. Please do!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm losing my hand and jaw function simultaneously .
By the time I ca n't hamgrip a pencil in each hand and type , I wo n't be able to talk or chew either .
Please do !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm losing my hand and jaw function simultaneously.
By the time I can't hamgrip a pencil in each hand and type, I won't be able to talk or chew either.
Please do!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28345627</id>
	<title>Re:Then uh, why did you buy it?</title>
	<author>Col Bat Guano</author>
	<datestamp>1245148200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why did I buy it? Because it's a good phone, and I like it.</p><p>I do have 9 full fingers, and I can use it with my shorter finger quite easily.</p><p>In fact in some ways it is a better way to use it - hold phone with thumb &amp; middle finger, shorter index finger is good for scrolling and doesn't get in the way. Like to give it a go?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p><p>My post was about the irony of finding documentation labelled "Fingertips" when I didn't have as many as most. It was a -joke-.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why did I buy it ?
Because it 's a good phone , and I like it.I do have 9 full fingers , and I can use it with my shorter finger quite easily.In fact in some ways it is a better way to use it - hold phone with thumb &amp; middle finger , shorter index finger is good for scrolling and does n't get in the way .
Like to give it a go ?
: - ) My post was about the irony of finding documentation labelled " Fingertips " when I did n't have as many as most .
It was a -joke- .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why did I buy it?
Because it's a good phone, and I like it.I do have 9 full fingers, and I can use it with my shorter finger quite easily.In fact in some ways it is a better way to use it - hold phone with thumb &amp; middle finger, shorter index finger is good for scrolling and doesn't get in the way.
Like to give it a go?
:-)My post was about the irony of finding documentation labelled "Fingertips" when I didn't have as many as most.
It was a -joke-.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331809</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331375</id>
	<title>Time, money, expertiese</title>
	<author>holophrastic</author>
	<datestamp>1244995620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I own two programming companies.  We work on things that are a) profitable, in the short or medium term; and b) have the expertiese and understanding to accomplish.</p><p>I am not presently disabled.  None of my employees / contractors are disabled.  So it won't help us any time soon, and we have no experience in the field.</p><p>Here's the ironic part.  I've built three development platforms (one for each type of device that we create).  Each of the three "languages" (mark-up, script, whatever) have such stringent conventions that it wolud be pretty easy to develop a "vocabulary" to reference areas of the platform code such that while worknig with the platform code (as opposed to developing and enhancing the core elements) would be quite doable.  That would cover about 90\% of our workload too.</p><p>But in the end, it will never happen.  Here's the thing.  Right now, it's more profitable for me to work as-is, than to work on accessibility.  The day I become disabled, even if it were to be tomorrowb morning, it would still be cheaper for me to hire a co-op student to type for me, or to read to me, or both.</p><p>Now, if hundreds of thousands of dollars of disabled clients were knocking on my door, it would take me fewer than six months to build the tools needed for a skilled programmer to navigate through my platform code with simple commands that could be mapped to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.V.R., or a joystick, or a head-bob, or whatever.  Right now, there are no such clients at my door-step.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I own two programming companies .
We work on things that are a ) profitable , in the short or medium term ; and b ) have the expertiese and understanding to accomplish.I am not presently disabled .
None of my employees / contractors are disabled .
So it wo n't help us any time soon , and we have no experience in the field.Here 's the ironic part .
I 've built three development platforms ( one for each type of device that we create ) .
Each of the three " languages " ( mark-up , script , whatever ) have such stringent conventions that it wolud be pretty easy to develop a " vocabulary " to reference areas of the platform code such that while worknig with the platform code ( as opposed to developing and enhancing the core elements ) would be quite doable .
That would cover about 90 \ % of our workload too.But in the end , it will never happen .
Here 's the thing .
Right now , it 's more profitable for me to work as-is , than to work on accessibility .
The day I become disabled , even if it were to be tomorrowb morning , it would still be cheaper for me to hire a co-op student to type for me , or to read to me , or both.Now , if hundreds of thousands of dollars of disabled clients were knocking on my door , it would take me fewer than six months to build the tools needed for a skilled programmer to navigate through my platform code with simple commands that could be mapped to .V.R. , or a joystick , or a head-bob , or whatever .
Right now , there are no such clients at my door-step .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I own two programming companies.
We work on things that are a) profitable, in the short or medium term; and b) have the expertiese and understanding to accomplish.I am not presently disabled.
None of my employees / contractors are disabled.
So it won't help us any time soon, and we have no experience in the field.Here's the ironic part.
I've built three development platforms (one for each type of device that we create).
Each of the three "languages" (mark-up, script, whatever) have such stringent conventions that it wolud be pretty easy to develop a "vocabulary" to reference areas of the platform code such that while worknig with the platform code (as opposed to developing and enhancing the core elements) would be quite doable.
That would cover about 90\% of our workload too.But in the end, it will never happen.
Here's the thing.
Right now, it's more profitable for me to work as-is, than to work on accessibility.
The day I become disabled, even if it were to be tomorrowb morning, it would still be cheaper for me to hire a co-op student to type for me, or to read to me, or both.Now, if hundreds of thousands of dollars of disabled clients were knocking on my door, it would take me fewer than six months to build the tools needed for a skilled programmer to navigate through my platform code with simple commands that could be mapped to .V.R., or a joystick, or a head-bob, or whatever.
Right now, there are no such clients at my door-step.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332643</id>
	<title>When keyboards attack!!!</title>
	<author>Klistvud</author>
	<datestamp>1245097560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>"from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year"? WTF? They get bitten by their keyboards or what? I always treat my keyboard and mouse with respect, feed them and clean them regularly, and they have never turned against me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year " ?
WTF ? They get bitten by their keyboards or what ?
I always treat my keyboard and mouse with respect , feed them and clean them regularly , and they have never turned against me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"from 60,000 to 100,000 keyboard users are injured every year"?
WTF? They get bitten by their keyboards or what?
I always treat my keyboard and mouse with respect, feed them and clean them regularly, and they have never turned against me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331931</id>
	<title>simple</title>
	<author>binaryseraph</author>
	<datestamp>1245001680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>tin-foil hat should cover most of it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>tin-foil hat should cover most of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>tin-foil hat should cover most of it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28341229</id>
	<title>Re:The reason that nobody really works on this...</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1245063000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Nobody thinks they are going to be disabled.</i></p><p>That simply isn't true. I had an ankle injury that lurked for 15 years with no major effects. It is currently badly arthritic and I'll probably need an ankle fusion in the next few years. With or without that I expect to be on a cane or in a wheel chair in the next 10. I'm not the only one. Disabilities don't always come without any warning.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nobody thinks they are going to be disabled.That simply is n't true .
I had an ankle injury that lurked for 15 years with no major effects .
It is currently badly arthritic and I 'll probably need an ankle fusion in the next few years .
With or without that I expect to be on a cane or in a wheel chair in the next 10 .
I 'm not the only one .
Disabilities do n't always come without any warning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nobody thinks they are going to be disabled.That simply isn't true.
I had an ankle injury that lurked for 15 years with no major effects.
It is currently badly arthritic and I'll probably need an ankle fusion in the next few years.
With or without that I expect to be on a cane or in a wheel chair in the next 10.
I'm not the only one.
Disabilities don't always come without any warning.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331209</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28334069</id>
	<title>Why not volunteer?</title>
	<author>OfficialReverendStev</author>
	<datestamp>1245074400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You somewhat answer yourself in the question: "what is keeping you from volunteering...?"<br> <br>The need to volunteer is.  If I devoted my life to volunteering my family would starve and be forced to live on the streets.<br> <br>To ask a more reasonable question, why companies aren't investing more into accessible interfaces, it comes down to numbers.  As many have pointed out, you're talking about a small fraction of the userbase who can't use the typical keyboard and mouse setup.  But even beyond that, you don't even define "disabled".  There are countless types of disabilities, each requiring specialized adaptations.  You can't simply build an interface "for the disabled" because you first need to know how a user is disabled.  This means that, in many cases, you're talking about a customized device.  That's rarely cheap, even if insurance is involved.  If the customer isn't willing or able to pay for it, nobody's going to make it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You somewhat answer yourself in the question : " what is keeping you from volunteering... ?
" The need to volunteer is .
If I devoted my life to volunteering my family would starve and be forced to live on the streets .
To ask a more reasonable question , why companies are n't investing more into accessible interfaces , it comes down to numbers .
As many have pointed out , you 're talking about a small fraction of the userbase who ca n't use the typical keyboard and mouse setup .
But even beyond that , you do n't even define " disabled " .
There are countless types of disabilities , each requiring specialized adaptations .
You ca n't simply build an interface " for the disabled " because you first need to know how a user is disabled .
This means that , in many cases , you 're talking about a customized device .
That 's rarely cheap , even if insurance is involved .
If the customer is n't willing or able to pay for it , nobody 's going to make it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You somewhat answer yourself in the question: "what is keeping you from volunteering...?
" The need to volunteer is.
If I devoted my life to volunteering my family would starve and be forced to live on the streets.
To ask a more reasonable question, why companies aren't investing more into accessible interfaces, it comes down to numbers.
As many have pointed out, you're talking about a small fraction of the userbase who can't use the typical keyboard and mouse setup.
But even beyond that, you don't even define "disabled".
There are countless types of disabilities, each requiring specialized adaptations.
You can't simply build an interface "for the disabled" because you first need to know how a user is disabled.
This means that, in many cases, you're talking about a customized device.
That's rarely cheap, even if insurance is involved.
If the customer isn't willing or able to pay for it, nobody's going to make it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28368793</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>owndao</author>
	<datestamp>1245251400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Keyboard stress? Bah.</p></div><p>I don't mean to sound like I'm preaching but I have to respond to that. Some background: I have experienced pain to the level that it caused be to lose consciousness several times despite my trying to stay conscious. This was from a broken back. I rank that as an 9 on the 10 scale with 10 being enough to kill me outright. I have a fairly rare form of arthritis where my body mistakes my tendons, joints, etc. for disease and therefore tries its hardest to destroy. With opiate painkillers and a cocktail that suppresses my immune system response across the board I range between a 3 and 5, 24-7. With this as my experience I would have to question many peoples' judgement of just how bad pain is. For example, I would rather go through the level 9 pain of being transfered from gurney to x-ray that caused me to pass out than go through the constant 3 to 5, 24-7. When you know the pain is going to stop at some point helps reduce the agony. Typing this on the keyboard doesn't hurt much more than my quiescent pain but by tomorrow, in reaction to having done this my pain will be up in the 4-5 range. When you say </p><p><div class="quote"><p>I couldn't grasp anything with my right hand for about 2 days because of typing too much.</p></div><p> you are only getting a short taste of what people with more severe illnesses are experiencing. Many will live with a high level of pain, as you describe, constantly or for as long as they continue to have a keyboard in their life. We won't be hearing from too many of these people on Slashdot as they would certainly have to be masochistic. As for teaching your daughter to not report pain -- careful there. Pain and our responses to it both mentally and physically are a complex subject.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Keyboard stress ?
Bah.I do n't mean to sound like I 'm preaching but I have to respond to that .
Some background : I have experienced pain to the level that it caused be to lose consciousness several times despite my trying to stay conscious .
This was from a broken back .
I rank that as an 9 on the 10 scale with 10 being enough to kill me outright .
I have a fairly rare form of arthritis where my body mistakes my tendons , joints , etc .
for disease and therefore tries its hardest to destroy .
With opiate painkillers and a cocktail that suppresses my immune system response across the board I range between a 3 and 5 , 24-7 .
With this as my experience I would have to question many peoples ' judgement of just how bad pain is .
For example , I would rather go through the level 9 pain of being transfered from gurney to x-ray that caused me to pass out than go through the constant 3 to 5 , 24-7 .
When you know the pain is going to stop at some point helps reduce the agony .
Typing this on the keyboard does n't hurt much more than my quiescent pain but by tomorrow , in reaction to having done this my pain will be up in the 4-5 range .
When you say I could n't grasp anything with my right hand for about 2 days because of typing too much .
you are only getting a short taste of what people with more severe illnesses are experiencing .
Many will live with a high level of pain , as you describe , constantly or for as long as they continue to have a keyboard in their life .
We wo n't be hearing from too many of these people on Slashdot as they would certainly have to be masochistic .
As for teaching your daughter to not report pain -- careful there .
Pain and our responses to it both mentally and physically are a complex subject .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keyboard stress?
Bah.I don't mean to sound like I'm preaching but I have to respond to that.
Some background: I have experienced pain to the level that it caused be to lose consciousness several times despite my trying to stay conscious.
This was from a broken back.
I rank that as an 9 on the 10 scale with 10 being enough to kill me outright.
I have a fairly rare form of arthritis where my body mistakes my tendons, joints, etc.
for disease and therefore tries its hardest to destroy.
With opiate painkillers and a cocktail that suppresses my immune system response across the board I range between a 3 and 5, 24-7.
With this as my experience I would have to question many peoples' judgement of just how bad pain is.
For example, I would rather go through the level 9 pain of being transfered from gurney to x-ray that caused me to pass out than go through the constant 3 to 5, 24-7.
When you know the pain is going to stop at some point helps reduce the agony.
Typing this on the keyboard doesn't hurt much more than my quiescent pain but by tomorrow, in reaction to having done this my pain will be up in the 4-5 range.
When you say I couldn't grasp anything with my right hand for about 2 days because of typing too much.
you are only getting a short taste of what people with more severe illnesses are experiencing.
Many will live with a high level of pain, as you describe, constantly or for as long as they continue to have a keyboard in their life.
We won't be hearing from too many of these people on Slashdot as they would certainly have to be masochistic.
As for teaching your daughter to not report pain -- careful there.
Pain and our responses to it both mentally and physically are a complex subject.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331249</id>
	<title>My work has similiar concerns...</title>
	<author>flyingsled</author>
	<datestamp>1244994540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>At my work, they're grappling with the same problem.  They have a number of blind people working the phones, and their workstations have all sorts of expensive specialised hardware to help them work.  The problem is, as more apps move from older green screen technology (yep, there's still lots) to newer wiz-bang web applications, those web-apps have to be created with accessibility in mind.

 They use JAWS (a commercial product from Freedom Scientific) to make internal applications accessible.  As for why there's not much work on the open source front, I guess it's one of those things where a competent developer hasn't had the urge to work on it.

But I agree that making computers accessible at a reasonable price (or free) is very important, especially given as a huge chunk of society is getting to the age where this stuff will be needed a lot.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At my work , they 're grappling with the same problem .
They have a number of blind people working the phones , and their workstations have all sorts of expensive specialised hardware to help them work .
The problem is , as more apps move from older green screen technology ( yep , there 's still lots ) to newer wiz-bang web applications , those web-apps have to be created with accessibility in mind .
They use JAWS ( a commercial product from Freedom Scientific ) to make internal applications accessible .
As for why there 's not much work on the open source front , I guess it 's one of those things where a competent developer has n't had the urge to work on it .
But I agree that making computers accessible at a reasonable price ( or free ) is very important , especially given as a huge chunk of society is getting to the age where this stuff will be needed a lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At my work, they're grappling with the same problem.
They have a number of blind people working the phones, and their workstations have all sorts of expensive specialised hardware to help them work.
The problem is, as more apps move from older green screen technology (yep, there's still lots) to newer wiz-bang web applications, those web-apps have to be created with accessibility in mind.
They use JAWS (a commercial product from Freedom Scientific) to make internal applications accessible.
As for why there's not much work on the open source front, I guess it's one of those things where a competent developer hasn't had the urge to work on it.
But I agree that making computers accessible at a reasonable price (or free) is very important, especially given as a huge chunk of society is getting to the age where this stuff will be needed a lot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332069</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>layabout</author>
	<datestamp>1245003360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/hardware/Ergonomics\_and\_Repetitive\_Strain\_Injury.pdf" title="microsoft.com" rel="nofollow">http://download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/hardware/Ergonomics\_and\_Repetitive\_Strain\_Injury.pdf</a> [microsoft.com]
<a href="http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Repetitive+strain+injuries+stretch+higher-a018341055" title="thefreelibrary.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Repetitive+strain+injuries+stretch+higher-a018341055</a> [thefreelibrary.com]
<a href="http://www.rsi-therapy.com/statistics.htm" title="rsi-therapy.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.rsi-therapy.com/statistics.htm</a> [rsi-therapy.com]

I think the UK stats are probably the best stats to go by.  Most of the RSI injury rate information in the United States is based on the last clean census of injuries which was roughly 1994-1995.  Unfortunately, since that time states with a large chicken processing workforce, have either stopped counting RSI statistics or have merge them into some other heading making difficult if not impossible to track down what the actual injury rates are.  It's amazing the kind of government service you can purchase if your name is Tyson or Perdue.  I know this sounds kind of conspiratorial but, up here in New England, the same thing happened with glass cutters and textile workers.  Remember, programmers are nothing more than a clean form of blue-collar labor that can be replaced by cheaper labor in a heartbeat.

As for the near 100\% comment, well as we age, we lose ability.  Since everybody ages, is a good chance you will spend decades being unable to use the tools and toys you use today.  There's a better chance that the twentysomethings 30 years from now will be inventing all of these cool things that you will be excluded from.</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/hardware/Ergonomics \ _and \ _Repetitive \ _Strain \ _Injury.pdf [ microsoft.com ] http : //www.thefreelibrary.com/Repetitive + strain + injuries + stretch + higher-a018341055 [ thefreelibrary.com ] http : //www.rsi-therapy.com/statistics.htm [ rsi-therapy.com ] I think the UK stats are probably the best stats to go by .
Most of the RSI injury rate information in the United States is based on the last clean census of injuries which was roughly 1994-1995 .
Unfortunately , since that time states with a large chicken processing workforce , have either stopped counting RSI statistics or have merge them into some other heading making difficult if not impossible to track down what the actual injury rates are .
It 's amazing the kind of government service you can purchase if your name is Tyson or Perdue .
I know this sounds kind of conspiratorial but , up here in New England , the same thing happened with glass cutters and textile workers .
Remember , programmers are nothing more than a clean form of blue-collar labor that can be replaced by cheaper labor in a heartbeat .
As for the near 100 \ % comment , well as we age , we lose ability .
Since everybody ages , is a good chance you will spend decades being unable to use the tools and toys you use today .
There 's a better chance that the twentysomethings 30 years from now will be inventing all of these cool things that you will be excluded from .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/hardware/Ergonomics\_and\_Repetitive\_Strain\_Injury.pdf [microsoft.com]
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Repetitive+strain+injuries+stretch+higher-a018341055 [thefreelibrary.com]
http://www.rsi-therapy.com/statistics.htm [rsi-therapy.com]

I think the UK stats are probably the best stats to go by.
Most of the RSI injury rate information in the United States is based on the last clean census of injuries which was roughly 1994-1995.
Unfortunately, since that time states with a large chicken processing workforce, have either stopped counting RSI statistics or have merge them into some other heading making difficult if not impossible to track down what the actual injury rates are.
It's amazing the kind of government service you can purchase if your name is Tyson or Perdue.
I know this sounds kind of conspiratorial but, up here in New England, the same thing happened with glass cutters and textile workers.
Remember, programmers are nothing more than a clean form of blue-collar labor that can be replaced by cheaper labor in a heartbeat.
As for the near 100\% comment, well as we age, we lose ability.
Since everybody ages, is a good chance you will spend decades being unable to use the tools and toys you use today.
There's a better chance that the twentysomethings 30 years from now will be inventing all of these cool things that you will be excluded from.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331195</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332167</id>
	<title>Ergonomics for Laptops or mobile users?</title>
	<author>HockeyPuck</author>
	<datestamp>1245004560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At work I've got an ergonomic keyboard, an ergonomic trackball, a great chair etc...  However, when I travel, it's back to typing on the laptop's keyboard, and using the trackpad.  While packing a trackball isn't a problem, packing an ergonomic keyboard isn't exactly a piece of cake.  Coupled that with trying to type at a hotel desk using a hotel chair, neither which are ergonomic, I'm asking for wrist issues...</p><p>Anybody got a solution to this?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At work I 've got an ergonomic keyboard , an ergonomic trackball , a great chair etc... However , when I travel , it 's back to typing on the laptop 's keyboard , and using the trackpad .
While packing a trackball is n't a problem , packing an ergonomic keyboard is n't exactly a piece of cake .
Coupled that with trying to type at a hotel desk using a hotel chair , neither which are ergonomic , I 'm asking for wrist issues...Anybody got a solution to this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At work I've got an ergonomic keyboard, an ergonomic trackball, a great chair etc...  However, when I travel, it's back to typing on the laptop's keyboard, and using the trackpad.
While packing a trackball isn't a problem, packing an ergonomic keyboard isn't exactly a piece of cake.
Coupled that with trying to type at a hotel desk using a hotel chair, neither which are ergonomic, I'm asking for wrist issues...Anybody got a solution to this?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331771</id>
	<title>Re:Let me be the first to mention Dasher</title>
	<author>SqueezeKey</author>
	<datestamp>1244999580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have been using Dasher for the vast majority of my typing needs for the past year.  I was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease (ALS) about two years ago and have slowly lost the use of my left hand and arm during those two years.  Dasher is commonly recommended to paraplegic and quadriplegic patients.  I know several ALS patients who use it with eyegaze or headmouse setups and love it.  It should be usable on any *NIX system that supports GNOME. There are also Windows binaries available.</p><p>Another possibility that can be used is an onscreen keyboard with dwell clicking for the mouse and word prediction capability in the keyboard software.  I know that both xvkbd and the GNOME onscreen keyboard (GOK) both support word prediction.  There are also a couple of projects that have adapted the Dasher word prediction engine into an interface like a telephone keypad that could also be used with dwell-clicking to provide a decent interface.  Seems to me one of those projects was called Tapir and the other one was called dKeys.</p><p>If anybody becomes interested in this kind of stuff and decides to take on a role in contributing to some of these accessible software projects, you will have the appreciation of hundreds of thousands of disabled users worldwide.  Not a bad reward for a little bit of work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have been using Dasher for the vast majority of my typing needs for the past year .
I was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig 's disease ( ALS ) about two years ago and have slowly lost the use of my left hand and arm during those two years .
Dasher is commonly recommended to paraplegic and quadriplegic patients .
I know several ALS patients who use it with eyegaze or headmouse setups and love it .
It should be usable on any * NIX system that supports GNOME .
There are also Windows binaries available.Another possibility that can be used is an onscreen keyboard with dwell clicking for the mouse and word prediction capability in the keyboard software .
I know that both xvkbd and the GNOME onscreen keyboard ( GOK ) both support word prediction .
There are also a couple of projects that have adapted the Dasher word prediction engine into an interface like a telephone keypad that could also be used with dwell-clicking to provide a decent interface .
Seems to me one of those projects was called Tapir and the other one was called dKeys.If anybody becomes interested in this kind of stuff and decides to take on a role in contributing to some of these accessible software projects , you will have the appreciation of hundreds of thousands of disabled users worldwide .
Not a bad reward for a little bit of work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have been using Dasher for the vast majority of my typing needs for the past year.
I was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease (ALS) about two years ago and have slowly lost the use of my left hand and arm during those two years.
Dasher is commonly recommended to paraplegic and quadriplegic patients.
I know several ALS patients who use it with eyegaze or headmouse setups and love it.
It should be usable on any *NIX system that supports GNOME.
There are also Windows binaries available.Another possibility that can be used is an onscreen keyboard with dwell clicking for the mouse and word prediction capability in the keyboard software.
I know that both xvkbd and the GNOME onscreen keyboard (GOK) both support word prediction.
There are also a couple of projects that have adapted the Dasher word prediction engine into an interface like a telephone keypad that could also be used with dwell-clicking to provide a decent interface.
Seems to me one of those projects was called Tapir and the other one was called dKeys.If anybody becomes interested in this kind of stuff and decides to take on a role in contributing to some of these accessible software projects, you will have the appreciation of hundreds of thousands of disabled users worldwide.
Not a bad reward for a little bit of work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332583</id>
	<title>Re:Cold Truth</title>
	<author>DavidD\_CA</author>
	<datestamp>1245096780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, but there are no government mandates to support eaters who want pickle chocolate pizza.</p><p>There's a lot of government mandates to make software accessible to those with disabilities, and that creates a number of opportunities for software developers who want to hit that niche market.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , but there are no government mandates to support eaters who want pickle chocolate pizza.There 's a lot of government mandates to make software accessible to those with disabilities , and that creates a number of opportunities for software developers who want to hit that niche market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, but there are no government mandates to support eaters who want pickle chocolate pizza.There's a lot of government mandates to make software accessible to those with disabilities, and that creates a number of opportunities for software developers who want to hit that niche market.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332135</id>
	<title>Re:Time, money, expertiese</title>
	<author>layabout</author>
	<datestamp>1245004200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I tried going the route of having someone type for me.  It would cost me, by the time agency fees are factored in, around $100-$200 per day.  If I'm billing, I can afford that.  If I'm not billing, I can't and that puts me right back in the place of looking for a solution.  Unfortunately, even at the best of times, it was a very tough experience.  The typist could not type fast enough to keep up with what I was saying.  I would try to teach her macros (stored in her head) and I would say things about constructing loops and method references etc., she would freeze up,  think for little bit, and then start again.  I would correct what she just typed and then we would keep going.  Effectively what I was doing was teaching her to program. then I would have to pay her more money and she wouldn't want to type for me.  She would want to write her own code.

Get another typist...

As you can see, the agency fees would add up and nearly get really expensive if I expected the typist to hang around until two o'clock in the morning so I could finish some work.  The same money could be applied to developing these tools if the money was free to be used in this way.  That's the second problem with being disabled.  Before disability, you're making enough money to build the tools, after disability, you don't have enough money to build the tools and you don't have the physical ability to build the tools.  This stuff is not simple.  It is complex and you need a team of people and guinea pigs to make something work right.  Hell, right now I would be happy if I could get someone to make vr-mode work</htmltext>
<tokenext>I tried going the route of having someone type for me .
It would cost me , by the time agency fees are factored in , around $ 100- $ 200 per day .
If I 'm billing , I can afford that .
If I 'm not billing , I ca n't and that puts me right back in the place of looking for a solution .
Unfortunately , even at the best of times , it was a very tough experience .
The typist could not type fast enough to keep up with what I was saying .
I would try to teach her macros ( stored in her head ) and I would say things about constructing loops and method references etc. , she would freeze up , think for little bit , and then start again .
I would correct what she just typed and then we would keep going .
Effectively what I was doing was teaching her to program .
then I would have to pay her more money and she would n't want to type for me .
She would want to write her own code .
Get another typist.. . As you can see , the agency fees would add up and nearly get really expensive if I expected the typist to hang around until two o'clock in the morning so I could finish some work .
The same money could be applied to developing these tools if the money was free to be used in this way .
That 's the second problem with being disabled .
Before disability , you 're making enough money to build the tools , after disability , you do n't have enough money to build the tools and you do n't have the physical ability to build the tools .
This stuff is not simple .
It is complex and you need a team of people and guinea pigs to make something work right .
Hell , right now I would be happy if I could get someone to make vr-mode work</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tried going the route of having someone type for me.
It would cost me, by the time agency fees are factored in, around $100-$200 per day.
If I'm billing, I can afford that.
If I'm not billing, I can't and that puts me right back in the place of looking for a solution.
Unfortunately, even at the best of times, it was a very tough experience.
The typist could not type fast enough to keep up with what I was saying.
I would try to teach her macros (stored in her head) and I would say things about constructing loops and method references etc., she would freeze up,  think for little bit, and then start again.
I would correct what she just typed and then we would keep going.
Effectively what I was doing was teaching her to program.
then I would have to pay her more money and she wouldn't want to type for me.
She would want to write her own code.
Get another typist...

As you can see, the agency fees would add up and nearly get really expensive if I expected the typist to hang around until two o'clock in the morning so I could finish some work.
The same money could be applied to developing these tools if the money was free to be used in this way.
That's the second problem with being disabled.
Before disability, you're making enough money to build the tools, after disability, you don't have enough money to build the tools and you don't have the physical ability to build the tools.
This stuff is not simple.
It is complex and you need a team of people and guinea pigs to make something work right.
Hell, right now I would be happy if I could get someone to make vr-mode work</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331197</id>
	<title>:O</title>
	<author>DirtyCanuck</author>
	<datestamp>1244994180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable, what's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks "</p><p>I'm disabled.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable , what 's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks " I 'm disabled .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable, what's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks "I'm disabled.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333937</id>
	<title>Re:Apple - I hate you!</title>
	<author>Quothz</author>
	<datestamp>1245072960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If i would have a steel, or any material more friction-resistant, i'm sure i wouldn't have such weird, carved, keys...</p></div><p>Yeah, but this is about tools for disabled <i>geeks</i>. A geek would probably not need <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=steel+keyboard" title="lmgtfy.com">this link</a> [lmgtfy.com] to find steel keyboards.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If i would have a steel , or any material more friction-resistant , i 'm sure i would n't have such weird , carved , keys...Yeah , but this is about tools for disabled geeks .
A geek would probably not need this link [ lmgtfy.com ] to find steel keyboards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If i would have a steel, or any material more friction-resistant, i'm sure i wouldn't have such weird, carved, keys...Yeah, but this is about tools for disabled geeks.
A geek would probably not need this link [lmgtfy.com] to find steel keyboards.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332505</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28333743</id>
	<title>Re:When did you stop beating your wife?</title>
	<author>that IT girl</author>
	<datestamp>1245070860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Generally, I agree with the sentiment of your statement. There is just one point I want to make about this:<p><div class="quote"><p>However, the elderly do make up a tiny portion of the electronics-using population.</p> </div><p>I think this number will rise sharply as the people who are in their teens, twenties, thirties now and use computers on a daily basis begin to age. I, for one, plan to use my technological devices until the day I die, if at all possible. That being said, I don't expect the computers and communications devices to be the same as they are now. It's continuously changing, and the problem may very well be dealt with by the time the majority of us reach our senior-citizen years. But the point of this article is that we need to focus on the future by starting now on these advancements, and we can't rely on the fact that few elderly folks today (who didn't grow up with these things) use computers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Generally , I agree with the sentiment of your statement .
There is just one point I want to make about this : However , the elderly do make up a tiny portion of the electronics-using population .
I think this number will rise sharply as the people who are in their teens , twenties , thirties now and use computers on a daily basis begin to age .
I , for one , plan to use my technological devices until the day I die , if at all possible .
That being said , I do n't expect the computers and communications devices to be the same as they are now .
It 's continuously changing , and the problem may very well be dealt with by the time the majority of us reach our senior-citizen years .
But the point of this article is that we need to focus on the future by starting now on these advancements , and we ca n't rely on the fact that few elderly folks today ( who did n't grow up with these things ) use computers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Generally, I agree with the sentiment of your statement.
There is just one point I want to make about this:However, the elderly do make up a tiny portion of the electronics-using population.
I think this number will rise sharply as the people who are in their teens, twenties, thirties now and use computers on a daily basis begin to age.
I, for one, plan to use my technological devices until the day I die, if at all possible.
That being said, I don't expect the computers and communications devices to be the same as they are now.
It's continuously changing, and the problem may very well be dealt with by the time the majority of us reach our senior-citizen years.
But the point of this article is that we need to focus on the future by starting now on these advancements, and we can't rely on the fact that few elderly folks today (who didn't grow up with these things) use computers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331571</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332111</id>
	<title>Re::O</title>
	<author>johnlcallaway</author>
	<datestamp>1245003900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I work for a living and spend my non-work hours enjoying what I made by working.
<br> <br>
Besides, I don't write software unless I need it. So<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. when I can't type, I'll use the crappy software we do have for whatever disability I have and make it better.
<br> <br>
Because that's what geeks do.....</htmltext>
<tokenext>I work for a living and spend my non-work hours enjoying what I made by working .
Besides , I do n't write software unless I need it .
So .. when I ca n't type , I 'll use the crappy software we do have for whatever disability I have and make it better .
Because that 's what geeks do.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work for a living and spend my non-work hours enjoying what I made by working.
Besides, I don't write software unless I need it.
So .. when I can't type, I'll use the crappy software we do have for whatever disability I have and make it better.
Because that's what geeks do.....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331197</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331761</id>
	<title>Re:Get ready</title>
	<author>eln</author>
	<datestamp>1244999460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typing</p></div></blockquote><p>In time, all 100\% of users will die. Should we start buying coffins?</p></div><p>Yes.  I've left orders to my family that, in order to save money, I should be left to the wolves when I die.  I have helpfully mapped out the locations of various wolf packs in the area to help them carry out my instructions.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In time , almost 100 \ % of keyboard users will have trouble typingIn time , all 100 \ % of users will die .
Should we start buying coffins ? Yes .
I 've left orders to my family that , in order to save money , I should be left to the wolves when I die .
I have helpfully mapped out the locations of various wolf packs in the area to help them carry out my instructions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In time, almost 100\% of keyboard users will have trouble typingIn time, all 100\% of users will die.
Should we start buying coffins?Yes.
I've left orders to my family that, in order to save money, I should be left to the wolves when I die.
I have helpfully mapped out the locations of various wolf packs in the area to help them carry out my instructions.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331265</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331439</id>
	<title>Go ask Obama for the money...</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1244996280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look, the socialists are in control now.  You can go and ask your comrade in chief for some bucks.  What's the point of volunteering for anything when the jack booted thugs of America SSR are going to come and beat you into it anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , the socialists are in control now .
You can go and ask your comrade in chief for some bucks .
What 's the point of volunteering for anything when the jack booted thugs of America SSR are going to come and beat you into it anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, the socialists are in control now.
You can go and ask your comrade in chief for some bucks.
What's the point of volunteering for anything when the jack booted thugs of America SSR are going to come and beat you into it anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332101</id>
	<title>it's not an evil conspiracy</title>
	<author>jipn4</author>
	<datestamp>1245003780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Listen to what disabled users do, not to what you think they should speak.</i></p><p>Even most user interfaces for non-disabled users contain serious problems.  For disabled users, there are many more variations and restrictions, and the developer can't even use himself as a model and test subject.</p><p>It's easy to say "do it better", but doing it better requires a lot more time and money given current tools.  A single developer costs $100k-$200k/year, and to come up with a really good user interface takes many developers and a lot of time.  It also takes a lot of time with users and user testing, something users don't seem to be too interested in doing either.</p><p>Another approach would be the development of better tools and more automation in user interface development for the disabled, but that takes research funding, and there isn't a lot of that either.</p><p>Even developing better speech recognition is not exactly lavishly funded anymore and there isn't that much of a market.</p><p>Developers have to eat somehow.  When they deliver half-baked solutions and inconvenient user interfaces, it's because they don't have time to do a better job or they don't even have the training.</p><p>Furthermore, the UI necessarily comes second to the actual functionality: software consisting of a great UI for a non-working back-end is less useful than software consisting of a bad UI for a great back-end.</p><p>So, I think while it would certainly be nice if more developers took user concerns and UIs more seriously, that's not enough.  Good UI development for small target populations with many different needs means a lot of extra time and money,<br>time and money that needs to come from somewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Listen to what disabled users do , not to what you think they should speak.Even most user interfaces for non-disabled users contain serious problems .
For disabled users , there are many more variations and restrictions , and the developer ca n't even use himself as a model and test subject.It 's easy to say " do it better " , but doing it better requires a lot more time and money given current tools .
A single developer costs $ 100k- $ 200k/year , and to come up with a really good user interface takes many developers and a lot of time .
It also takes a lot of time with users and user testing , something users do n't seem to be too interested in doing either.Another approach would be the development of better tools and more automation in user interface development for the disabled , but that takes research funding , and there is n't a lot of that either.Even developing better speech recognition is not exactly lavishly funded anymore and there is n't that much of a market.Developers have to eat somehow .
When they deliver half-baked solutions and inconvenient user interfaces , it 's because they do n't have time to do a better job or they do n't even have the training.Furthermore , the UI necessarily comes second to the actual functionality : software consisting of a great UI for a non-working back-end is less useful than software consisting of a bad UI for a great back-end.So , I think while it would certainly be nice if more developers took user concerns and UIs more seriously , that 's not enough .
Good UI development for small target populations with many different needs means a lot of extra time and money,time and money that needs to come from somewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Listen to what disabled users do, not to what you think they should speak.Even most user interfaces for non-disabled users contain serious problems.
For disabled users, there are many more variations and restrictions, and the developer can't even use himself as a model and test subject.It's easy to say "do it better", but doing it better requires a lot more time and money given current tools.
A single developer costs $100k-$200k/year, and to come up with a really good user interface takes many developers and a lot of time.
It also takes a lot of time with users and user testing, something users don't seem to be too interested in doing either.Another approach would be the development of better tools and more automation in user interface development for the disabled, but that takes research funding, and there isn't a lot of that either.Even developing better speech recognition is not exactly lavishly funded anymore and there isn't that much of a market.Developers have to eat somehow.
When they deliver half-baked solutions and inconvenient user interfaces, it's because they don't have time to do a better job or they don't even have the training.Furthermore, the UI necessarily comes second to the actual functionality: software consisting of a great UI for a non-working back-end is less useful than software consisting of a bad UI for a great back-end.So, I think while it would certainly be nice if more developers took user concerns and UIs more seriously, that's not enough.
Good UI development for small target populations with many different needs means a lot of extra time and money,time and money that needs to come from somewhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331855</id>
	<title>Re:Time, money, expertiese</title>
	<author>SqueezeKey</author>
	<datestamp>1245000720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You obviously haven't seen the markup that gets put on computer equipment that qualifies as a medical device.  Take a look around on the Dynavox website (www.dynavoxtech.com) and see if any of those gadgets look terribly complicated or difficult to replicate.  Then look at the price list.  The cheapest gadget (palmtop) goes for $3000+.  The laptop-sized device goes for about $8000 unless it has the eyegaze system, which goes for an additional $7000, bringing the total to a cool $15,000 per unit.  All covered by Medicare, Medicaid, and most major medical insurance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You obviously have n't seen the markup that gets put on computer equipment that qualifies as a medical device .
Take a look around on the Dynavox website ( www.dynavoxtech.com ) and see if any of those gadgets look terribly complicated or difficult to replicate .
Then look at the price list .
The cheapest gadget ( palmtop ) goes for $ 3000 + .
The laptop-sized device goes for about $ 8000 unless it has the eyegaze system , which goes for an additional $ 7000 , bringing the total to a cool $ 15,000 per unit .
All covered by Medicare , Medicaid , and most major medical insurance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You obviously haven't seen the markup that gets put on computer equipment that qualifies as a medical device.
Take a look around on the Dynavox website (www.dynavoxtech.com) and see if any of those gadgets look terribly complicated or difficult to replicate.
Then look at the price list.
The cheapest gadget (palmtop) goes for $3000+.
The laptop-sized device goes for about $8000 unless it has the eyegaze system, which goes for an additional $7000, bringing the total to a cool $15,000 per unit.
All covered by Medicare, Medicaid, and most major medical insurance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28343115</id>
	<title>Re:Oh yeah...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245075720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Nice -- throw out the guilt card right there at the end, when I'm just about to decide whether or not following the link is worth my time.  That <b>really</b> makes me want to read more of what you have to say, yessir.</p></div><p>Ok, so we'll put you down as 'because I'm a pompous ass'.  Thanks for playing and please don't forget your free hat on the way out.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nice -- throw out the guilt card right there at the end , when I 'm just about to decide whether or not following the link is worth my time .
That really makes me want to read more of what you have to say , yessir.Ok , so we 'll put you down as 'because I 'm a pompous ass' .
Thanks for playing and please do n't forget your free hat on the way out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nice -- throw out the guilt card right there at the end, when I'm just about to decide whether or not following the link is worth my time.
That really makes me want to read more of what you have to say, yessir.Ok, so we'll put you down as 'because I'm a pompous ass'.
Thanks for playing and please don't forget your free hat on the way out.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331353</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28341519</id>
	<title>Re:The reason that nobody really works on this...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245064740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There are many people working on input methods for the disabled. As just one example, <a href="http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/" title="cam.ac.uk" rel="nofollow">Dasher</a> [cam.ac.uk] is an information efficient text-entry method that can be controlled by mouse, voice, gaze, two buttons or even a single button. Experienced users regularly type 20+ words per minute, just with their gaze. Try that with an on-screen keyboard.</p><p>The same group has just published <a href="http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/nomon/" title="cam.ac.uk" rel="nofollow">nomon</a> [cam.ac.uk], a single-button text entry method (and pointing device) for the severely disabled. Did I mention that both programs are open source?</p></div><p>yeah dasher is pretty cool. i assisted in testing in cambridge when i was an undergrad there a few years ago. i also tried it with the gaze and do stuff device.  was pretty cool.  i must look up the project again at some point.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many people working on input methods for the disabled .
As just one example , Dasher [ cam.ac.uk ] is an information efficient text-entry method that can be controlled by mouse , voice , gaze , two buttons or even a single button .
Experienced users regularly type 20 + words per minute , just with their gaze .
Try that with an on-screen keyboard.The same group has just published nomon [ cam.ac.uk ] , a single-button text entry method ( and pointing device ) for the severely disabled .
Did I mention that both programs are open source ? yeah dasher is pretty cool .
i assisted in testing in cambridge when i was an undergrad there a few years ago .
i also tried it with the gaze and do stuff device .
was pretty cool .
i must look up the project again at some point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many people working on input methods for the disabled.
As just one example, Dasher [cam.ac.uk] is an information efficient text-entry method that can be controlled by mouse, voice, gaze, two buttons or even a single button.
Experienced users regularly type 20+ words per minute, just with their gaze.
Try that with an on-screen keyboard.The same group has just published nomon [cam.ac.uk], a single-button text entry method (and pointing device) for the severely disabled.
Did I mention that both programs are open source?yeah dasher is pretty cool.
i assisted in testing in cambridge when i was an undergrad there a few years ago.
i also tried it with the gaze and do stuff device.
was pretty cool.
i must look up the project again at some point.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332943</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28336587</id>
	<title>Healthy Gaming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245086760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>News on health and exercise related video games:</p><p><a href="http://www.healthygaming.com/blog/" title="healthygaming.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.healthygaming.com/blog/</a> [healthygaming.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>News on health and exercise related video games : http : //www.healthygaming.com/blog/ [ healthygaming.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>News on health and exercise related video games:http://www.healthygaming.com/blog/ [healthygaming.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28335293</id>
	<title>gh, LLC</title>
	<author>Ded Bob</author>
	<datestamp>1245081360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I worked long ago for the founder of this company (<a href="http://www.gh-accessibility.com/" title="gh-accessibility.com">gh, LLC</a> [gh-accessibility.com]) when he was in charge of the Purdue VISIONS Lab.  They may have some useful technology to use.</p><p>The VISIONS Lab is probably defunct, but I found <a href="http://people.rit.edu/easi/easisem/visions.htm" title="rit.edu">information</a> [rit.edu] about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I worked long ago for the founder of this company ( gh , LLC [ gh-accessibility.com ] ) when he was in charge of the Purdue VISIONS Lab .
They may have some useful technology to use.The VISIONS Lab is probably defunct , but I found information [ rit.edu ] about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worked long ago for the founder of this company (gh, LLC [gh-accessibility.com]) when he was in charge of the Purdue VISIONS Lab.
They may have some useful technology to use.The VISIONS Lab is probably defunct, but I found information [rit.edu] about it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331541</id>
	<title>Government safety net</title>
	<author>Gothmolly</author>
	<datestamp>1244997120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Given that we're paying for a socialized government safety net, my advice is - use it.  Sorry geek, you lose your fingers, you retire on government welfare.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that we 're paying for a socialized government safety net , my advice is - use it .
Sorry geek , you lose your fingers , you retire on government welfare .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that we're paying for a socialized government safety net, my advice is - use it.
Sorry geek, you lose your fingers, you retire on government welfare.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331353</id>
	<title>Oh yeah...</title>
	<author>NewbieProgrammerMan</author>
	<datestamp>1244995500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>My question to Slashdot: Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable, what's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled?</p></div><p>Nice -- throw out the guilt card right there at the end, when I'm just about to decide whether or not following the link is worth my time.  That <b>really</b> makes me want to read more of what you have to say, yessir.</p><p>If I was going to work on hardware or software for disabled people, I'd be more inclined to work on stuff for people with little or no voluntary muscle control.   What fraction of disabled geeks also can't speak?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My question to Slashdot : Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable , what 's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled ? Nice -- throw out the guilt card right there at the end , when I 'm just about to decide whether or not following the link is worth my time .
That really makes me want to read more of what you have to say , yessir.If I was going to work on hardware or software for disabled people , I 'd be more inclined to work on stuff for people with little or no voluntary muscle control .
What fraction of disabled geeks also ca n't speak ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My question to Slashdot: Given that some form of disability is almost inevitable, what's keeping you from volunteering and working with geeks who are already disabled?Nice -- throw out the guilt card right there at the end, when I'm just about to decide whether or not following the link is worth my time.
That really makes me want to read more of what you have to say, yessir.If I was going to work on hardware or software for disabled people, I'd be more inclined to work on stuff for people with little or no voluntary muscle control.
What fraction of disabled geeks also can't speak?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28332753</id>
	<title>Re:Cite please</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1245099060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I particularly enjoyed one training where it was clear that we should go outside once an our and look at things far in the distance, to avoid eye strain. Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired.</p></div></blockquote><p>If you get your work done what's the problem?  Seems like a case of measuring what's easy to measure, rather than what matters.  See also KLOC/day.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I particularly enjoyed one training where it was clear that we should go outside once an our and look at things far in the distance , to avoid eye strain .
Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired.If you get your work done what 's the problem ?
Seems like a case of measuring what 's easy to measure , rather than what matters .
See also KLOC/day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I particularly enjoyed one training where it was clear that we should go outside once an our and look at things far in the distance, to avoid eye strain.
Good luck with taking that many breaks in a day without getting fired.If you get your work done what's the problem?
Seems like a case of measuring what's easy to measure, rather than what matters.
See also KLOC/day.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331937</id>
	<title>Re:Permanently disabled geeks also exist</title>
	<author>complete loony</author>
	<datestamp>1245001740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My father is an amputee, he lost both his hands when he was about 6. His left arm has about 4 inches after the elbow, and his right ends at the elbow.
</p><p>In the early 8-bit hobby computing era he gave up his teaching job and started working as an analyst / developer. He types on a normal keyboard by holding a pen between his arms. Sometimes using his left elbow on Shift / Control keys.
</p><p>However he is far more productive than most of the able bodied developers he works with because he's written so many macros in vim to automate just about everything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My father is an amputee , he lost both his hands when he was about 6 .
His left arm has about 4 inches after the elbow , and his right ends at the elbow .
In the early 8-bit hobby computing era he gave up his teaching job and started working as an analyst / developer .
He types on a normal keyboard by holding a pen between his arms .
Sometimes using his left elbow on Shift / Control keys .
However he is far more productive than most of the able bodied developers he works with because he 's written so many macros in vim to automate just about everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My father is an amputee, he lost both his hands when he was about 6.
His left arm has about 4 inches after the elbow, and his right ends at the elbow.
In the early 8-bit hobby computing era he gave up his teaching job and started working as an analyst / developer.
He types on a normal keyboard by holding a pen between his arms.
Sometimes using his left elbow on Shift / Control keys.
However he is far more productive than most of the able bodied developers he works with because he's written so many macros in vim to automate just about everything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_14_2143205.28331245</parent>
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