<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_13_123211</id>
	<title>Student Who Released Code From Assignments Accused of Cheating</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1244899740000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.anus.com/metal" rel="nofollow">Death Metal</a> sends in a story about Kyle Brady, a computer science major at San Jose State University, who recently ran into trouble over <a href="http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/06/academic-source-code-dust-up-symptom-of-cs-education-ills.ars">publishing the source code to his programming assignments</a> after their due dates. One of Brady's professors contacted him and <a href="http://www.kyle-brady.com/2009/06/10/how-i-won-a-copyfight/">threatened to fail him</a> if he did not take down the code. Brady took the matter to the Computer Science Department Chair, who consulted with others and decided that <a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2009/06/11/student-challenges-p.html">releasing the code was not an ethical violation</a>. Quoting Cory Doctorow at Boing Boing:
<i>"There's a lot of meat on the bones of this story. The most important lesson from it for me is that students want to produce meaningful output from their course-assignments, things that have intrinsic value apart from their usefulness for assessing their progress in the course. Profs &mdash; including me, at times &mdash; fall into the lazy trap of wanting to assign rotework that can be endlessly recycled as work for new students, a model that fails when the students treat their work as useful in and of itself and therefore worthy of making public for their peers and other interested parties who find them through search results, links, etc. But the convenience of profs must be secondary to the pedagogical value of the university experience &mdash; especially now, with universities ratcheting up their tuition fees and trying to justify an education that can put students into debt for the majority of their working lives."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Death Metal sends in a story about Kyle Brady , a computer science major at San Jose State University , who recently ran into trouble over publishing the source code to his programming assignments after their due dates .
One of Brady 's professors contacted him and threatened to fail him if he did not take down the code .
Brady took the matter to the Computer Science Department Chair , who consulted with others and decided that releasing the code was not an ethical violation .
Quoting Cory Doctorow at Boing Boing : " There 's a lot of meat on the bones of this story .
The most important lesson from it for me is that students want to produce meaningful output from their course-assignments , things that have intrinsic value apart from their usefulness for assessing their progress in the course .
Profs    including me , at times    fall into the lazy trap of wanting to assign rotework that can be endlessly recycled as work for new students , a model that fails when the students treat their work as useful in and of itself and therefore worthy of making public for their peers and other interested parties who find them through search results , links , etc .
But the convenience of profs must be secondary to the pedagogical value of the university experience    especially now , with universities ratcheting up their tuition fees and trying to justify an education that can put students into debt for the majority of their working lives .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Death Metal sends in a story about Kyle Brady, a computer science major at San Jose State University, who recently ran into trouble over publishing the source code to his programming assignments after their due dates.
One of Brady's professors contacted him and threatened to fail him if he did not take down the code.
Brady took the matter to the Computer Science Department Chair, who consulted with others and decided that releasing the code was not an ethical violation.
Quoting Cory Doctorow at Boing Boing:
"There's a lot of meat on the bones of this story.
The most important lesson from it for me is that students want to produce meaningful output from their course-assignments, things that have intrinsic value apart from their usefulness for assessing their progress in the course.
Profs — including me, at times — fall into the lazy trap of wanting to assign rotework that can be endlessly recycled as work for new students, a model that fails when the students treat their work as useful in and of itself and therefore worthy of making public for their peers and other interested parties who find them through search results, links, etc.
But the convenience of profs must be secondary to the pedagogical value of the university experience — especially now, with universities ratcheting up their tuition fees and trying to justify an education that can put students into debt for the majority of their working lives.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319663</id>
	<title>Re:The Professor is an Idiot</title>
	<author>fdobbie</author>
	<datestamp>1244906340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Simple put: you are wrong.</p><p>The course agreement for most universities attributes the copyright from any works you create during your studies to the unversity. They own it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Simple put : you are wrong.The course agreement for most universities attributes the copyright from any works you create during your studies to the unversity .
They own it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Simple put: you are wrong.The course agreement for most universities attributes the copyright from any works you create during your studies to the unversity.
They own it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321387</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244920860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why not write your own textbook, leaving out the low points and concentrating on the high points, and make some extra money. It's now like you'd be the first prof to do so. Of course, this would mean a little extra work each semester reorganizing the book so the students have to buy it each and every year. @#$!@\%#$@\%#$@#$</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not write your own textbook , leaving out the low points and concentrating on the high points , and make some extra money .
It 's now like you 'd be the first prof to do so .
Of course , this would mean a little extra work each semester reorganizing the book so the students have to buy it each and every year .
@ # $ ! @ \ % # $ @ \ % # $ @ # $</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not write your own textbook, leaving out the low points and concentrating on the high points, and make some extra money.
It's now like you'd be the first prof to do so.
Of course, this would mean a little extra work each semester reorganizing the book so the students have to buy it each and every year.
@#$!@\%#$@\%#$@#$</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319653</id>
	<title>I would never have "published" my undergrad code..</title>
	<author>jeffb (2.718)</author>
	<datestamp>1244906220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...as I recall, the campus newspaper charged by the line for classified ads.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...as I recall , the campus newspaper charged by the line for classified ads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...as I recall, the campus newspaper charged by the line for classified ads.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319747</id>
	<title>The Real Deal: Licensing for Schoolwork</title>
	<author>betasam</author>
	<datestamp>1244907480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The specific case (covered heavily - check <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090611/1027095200.shtml" title="techdirt.com" rel="nofollow">Techdirt</a> [techdirt.com] for one) in question has actually brought in a much larger problem to light. <strong>How should students treat code written as part of assignments or as part of their course-work in terms of licensing?</strong> Is there a precedent for licensing? Most <i>research activities</i> conducted by universities have already adopted licensing framework. Here's an  example. There has been debate whether such licensing should be free. Just check Medical Research and you can open Pandora's box. One more example is Singapore's <a href="http://www.a-star.edu.sg/" title="a-star.edu.sg" rel="nofollow">A-Star</a> [a-star.edu.sg] which is more of a group focused on preparing research for industry adoption including licensing and legal usage terms.
<br> <br>
How about code released in books on Data Structures, Algorithms, Fundamental C programming? To my knowledge (do correct me if I am wrong), the code is usually licensed under the same copyright notice as the book itself. In some cases, the author changes this licensing and makes it available. One example is "Numerical Recipes in C" where the licensing terms of the code from the author(s) of the book is <a href="http://bytes.com/groups/c/502766-numerical-recipes-c-code" title="bytes.com" rel="nofollow">explicit</a> [bytes.com] and can be found on a google search.
<br> <br>
When it comes to university assignments, it is no news that the same template (if not the same course material itself) tends to get recirculated over a periodic basis. In some cases this period is annual and in others, the frequency is different. The debate raised is ages old. For most data structure or standard assignments of programming, you could find most of the code online. You could use this as a starting point or choose to write your own and learn your fundamentals. That's up to the student and the professor who is teaching and grading.
<br> <br>
There is some truth in the statement (IMHO) that the Academia is shielded from the real commercial world. It works positive in some cases and is counterproductive in fields like Engineering (not Theoretical Computer Science.) In this specific case, if the University were to read all the fine print they have on students sharing course material (for which they pay for) and lecture notes and assignments, they would find the right solution. Bringing this (issue between a student and the professor) out to Open forums seems more of a publicity stunt that is going to get someone infamous for some and noticeable for a few others.
<br> <br>
Focusing on the larger issue, <strong>a Varsity must be clear on how course-work and assignments from the students will be licensed and treated</strong>. They already have set legal precedents for most research work (which in some cases is funded by commercial bodies.) Hopefully this issue raises a flag and lets varsities understand and embrace Open Source, encourage students to use it particularly in programming assignments. At the very least they should at least reserve procedures to let a student obtain due permission for displaying his/her works online under appropriate licensing. In the absence of a precedent and clear guidelines, such confusion and unnecessary nerve wracking experiences between a Professor and a Student are more likely to surface. I hope not.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The specific case ( covered heavily - check Techdirt [ techdirt.com ] for one ) in question has actually brought in a much larger problem to light .
How should students treat code written as part of assignments or as part of their course-work in terms of licensing ?
Is there a precedent for licensing ?
Most research activities conducted by universities have already adopted licensing framework .
Here 's an example .
There has been debate whether such licensing should be free .
Just check Medical Research and you can open Pandora 's box .
One more example is Singapore 's A-Star [ a-star.edu.sg ] which is more of a group focused on preparing research for industry adoption including licensing and legal usage terms .
How about code released in books on Data Structures , Algorithms , Fundamental C programming ?
To my knowledge ( do correct me if I am wrong ) , the code is usually licensed under the same copyright notice as the book itself .
In some cases , the author changes this licensing and makes it available .
One example is " Numerical Recipes in C " where the licensing terms of the code from the author ( s ) of the book is explicit [ bytes.com ] and can be found on a google search .
When it comes to university assignments , it is no news that the same template ( if not the same course material itself ) tends to get recirculated over a periodic basis .
In some cases this period is annual and in others , the frequency is different .
The debate raised is ages old .
For most data structure or standard assignments of programming , you could find most of the code online .
You could use this as a starting point or choose to write your own and learn your fundamentals .
That 's up to the student and the professor who is teaching and grading .
There is some truth in the statement ( IMHO ) that the Academia is shielded from the real commercial world .
It works positive in some cases and is counterproductive in fields like Engineering ( not Theoretical Computer Science .
) In this specific case , if the University were to read all the fine print they have on students sharing course material ( for which they pay for ) and lecture notes and assignments , they would find the right solution .
Bringing this ( issue between a student and the professor ) out to Open forums seems more of a publicity stunt that is going to get someone infamous for some and noticeable for a few others .
Focusing on the larger issue , a Varsity must be clear on how course-work and assignments from the students will be licensed and treated .
They already have set legal precedents for most research work ( which in some cases is funded by commercial bodies .
) Hopefully this issue raises a flag and lets varsities understand and embrace Open Source , encourage students to use it particularly in programming assignments .
At the very least they should at least reserve procedures to let a student obtain due permission for displaying his/her works online under appropriate licensing .
In the absence of a precedent and clear guidelines , such confusion and unnecessary nerve wracking experiences between a Professor and a Student are more likely to surface .
I hope not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The specific case (covered heavily - check Techdirt [techdirt.com] for one) in question has actually brought in a much larger problem to light.
How should students treat code written as part of assignments or as part of their course-work in terms of licensing?
Is there a precedent for licensing?
Most research activities conducted by universities have already adopted licensing framework.
Here's an  example.
There has been debate whether such licensing should be free.
Just check Medical Research and you can open Pandora's box.
One more example is Singapore's A-Star [a-star.edu.sg] which is more of a group focused on preparing research for industry adoption including licensing and legal usage terms.
How about code released in books on Data Structures, Algorithms, Fundamental C programming?
To my knowledge (do correct me if I am wrong), the code is usually licensed under the same copyright notice as the book itself.
In some cases, the author changes this licensing and makes it available.
One example is "Numerical Recipes in C" where the licensing terms of the code from the author(s) of the book is explicit [bytes.com] and can be found on a google search.
When it comes to university assignments, it is no news that the same template (if not the same course material itself) tends to get recirculated over a periodic basis.
In some cases this period is annual and in others, the frequency is different.
The debate raised is ages old.
For most data structure or standard assignments of programming, you could find most of the code online.
You could use this as a starting point or choose to write your own and learn your fundamentals.
That's up to the student and the professor who is teaching and grading.
There is some truth in the statement (IMHO) that the Academia is shielded from the real commercial world.
It works positive in some cases and is counterproductive in fields like Engineering (not Theoretical Computer Science.
) In this specific case, if the University were to read all the fine print they have on students sharing course material (for which they pay for) and lecture notes and assignments, they would find the right solution.
Bringing this (issue between a student and the professor) out to Open forums seems more of a publicity stunt that is going to get someone infamous for some and noticeable for a few others.
Focusing on the larger issue, a Varsity must be clear on how course-work and assignments from the students will be licensed and treated.
They already have set legal precedents for most research work (which in some cases is funded by commercial bodies.
) Hopefully this issue raises a flag and lets varsities understand and embrace Open Source, encourage students to use it particularly in programming assignments.
At the very least they should at least reserve procedures to let a student obtain due permission for displaying his/her works online under appropriate licensing.
In the absence of a precedent and clear guidelines, such confusion and unnecessary nerve wracking experiences between a Professor and a Student are more likely to surface.
I hope not.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319381</id>
	<title>Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244903460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The student released the source after the release date, which prevented any of his peers from cheating.  In the computer science classes that I take, it's allowed to share the source code for your assignments as long as it isn't for a pending assignment and/or test.</p><p>The only reason that comes to mind for the teacher wanting the code to be taken down is because he was going to use the same assignments next year (Which is fairly common among teachers).  Regardless, in this case it's his code and he has the right to do whatever he wants with it.</p><p>Unfortunately schools have become more about preparing you for standardized tests and such rather than giving you a real education with the information you actually will use in life (Which is why teachers always have to cover their asses).  What Brady was trying to do was help his peers and kudos to him for doing so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The student released the source after the release date , which prevented any of his peers from cheating .
In the computer science classes that I take , it 's allowed to share the source code for your assignments as long as it is n't for a pending assignment and/or test.The only reason that comes to mind for the teacher wanting the code to be taken down is because he was going to use the same assignments next year ( Which is fairly common among teachers ) .
Regardless , in this case it 's his code and he has the right to do whatever he wants with it.Unfortunately schools have become more about preparing you for standardized tests and such rather than giving you a real education with the information you actually will use in life ( Which is why teachers always have to cover their asses ) .
What Brady was trying to do was help his peers and kudos to him for doing so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The student released the source after the release date, which prevented any of his peers from cheating.
In the computer science classes that I take, it's allowed to share the source code for your assignments as long as it isn't for a pending assignment and/or test.The only reason that comes to mind for the teacher wanting the code to be taken down is because he was going to use the same assignments next year (Which is fairly common among teachers).
Regardless, in this case it's his code and he has the right to do whatever he wants with it.Unfortunately schools have become more about preparing you for standardized tests and such rather than giving you a real education with the information you actually will use in life (Which is why teachers always have to cover their asses).
What Brady was trying to do was help his peers and kudos to him for doing so.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319723</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>witherstaff</author>
	<datestamp>1244907180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My frat house had a crib room with tests, quizzes, homework stored. Simply look up the teacher and class and you could easily find examples. Oftentimes most projects just had answers slightly changed. While you couldn't memorize the exact answers it did help in figuring out what areas to narrow down to study. Except for a few cases that did just recycle the exact same things - those were the best!</htmltext>
<tokenext>My frat house had a crib room with tests , quizzes , homework stored .
Simply look up the teacher and class and you could easily find examples .
Oftentimes most projects just had answers slightly changed .
While you could n't memorize the exact answers it did help in figuring out what areas to narrow down to study .
Except for a few cases that did just recycle the exact same things - those were the best !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My frat house had a crib room with tests, quizzes, homework stored.
Simply look up the teacher and class and you could easily find examples.
Oftentimes most projects just had answers slightly changed.
While you couldn't memorize the exact answers it did help in figuring out what areas to narrow down to study.
Except for a few cases that did just recycle the exact same things - those were the best!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319769</id>
	<title>Teacher is right</title>
	<author>goombah99</author>
	<datestamp>1244907660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I heartily agree.</p><p>to give another example,  text's often come with problems.  It's unethical to personally use an answer key.  And personally I think it's unethical to make it easy to access an answer key. I say this because in the school I went to all the chinese language versions of the books were the teacher's edition with the answer key.</p><p>The reason that is important is this.  I beleive most students will no cheat if they believe their peers are not cheating.  Part of what goes into making that assessment is a students appreciation of how easy it would be for the other students to cheat. If it seems like theirs barrier they relax.  If the other kids have the answer keys in their hands they get worried and some will assume the others must be cheating and do so themselves.</p><p>thus supressing avenues for easy access to cheating materials is a good thing.</p><p>Some posters have said  "well why cant the professor tweak his assignments and then look for answers that were off the old sets".</p><p>Professors should be able to reuse their prolelm sets without having to try to constantly be worried about how to outfox cheating.</p><p>It would have been much easier for the student who wanted to publish his assignment because of their intrinsic  value could very well tweak these so they don't correspond to the assignment much more easily.  So me thinks this excuse for publishing assignement keys is a ruse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I heartily agree.to give another example , text 's often come with problems .
It 's unethical to personally use an answer key .
And personally I think it 's unethical to make it easy to access an answer key .
I say this because in the school I went to all the chinese language versions of the books were the teacher 's edition with the answer key.The reason that is important is this .
I beleive most students will no cheat if they believe their peers are not cheating .
Part of what goes into making that assessment is a students appreciation of how easy it would be for the other students to cheat .
If it seems like theirs barrier they relax .
If the other kids have the answer keys in their hands they get worried and some will assume the others must be cheating and do so themselves.thus supressing avenues for easy access to cheating materials is a good thing.Some posters have said " well why cant the professor tweak his assignments and then look for answers that were off the old sets " .Professors should be able to reuse their prolelm sets without having to try to constantly be worried about how to outfox cheating.It would have been much easier for the student who wanted to publish his assignment because of their intrinsic value could very well tweak these so they do n't correspond to the assignment much more easily .
So me thinks this excuse for publishing assignement keys is a ruse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I heartily agree.to give another example,  text's often come with problems.
It's unethical to personally use an answer key.
And personally I think it's unethical to make it easy to access an answer key.
I say this because in the school I went to all the chinese language versions of the books were the teacher's edition with the answer key.The reason that is important is this.
I beleive most students will no cheat if they believe their peers are not cheating.
Part of what goes into making that assessment is a students appreciation of how easy it would be for the other students to cheat.
If it seems like theirs barrier they relax.
If the other kids have the answer keys in their hands they get worried and some will assume the others must be cheating and do so themselves.thus supressing avenues for easy access to cheating materials is a good thing.Some posters have said  "well why cant the professor tweak his assignments and then look for answers that were off the old sets".Professors should be able to reuse their prolelm sets without having to try to constantly be worried about how to outfox cheating.It would have been much easier for the student who wanted to publish his assignment because of their intrinsic  value could very well tweak these so they don't correspond to the assignment much more easily.
So me thinks this excuse for publishing assignement keys is a ruse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28322673</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Murdoch5</author>
	<datestamp>1244889780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know what you mean, I had C Prof who couldn't stand Linux / Unix.  So when I use to do my labs I'd always use a Linux box and write the code to work on my Linux box, to make sure I could use the same code in Windows i just use to include the unix standard lib.  My prof hated that I did that and always said "If Linux was so good then there would be no Windows", I of course don't agree.  My prof was also a one compiler only teacher and if you couldn't use Visual Studio then you couldn't hand in your code, well sure enought my code never compiled in Visual.  When I told him to compile it in Dev he always got in a fuss.
<br>
<br>
It's not that my code didn't work, infact it worked better then 90\% of the class.  My code was more portable because of library's I used and it compiled under more standards of C, such as C99 GNU99 K&amp;R etc....
<br>
<br>
I also like above someone said that a Prof shouldn't had out Lab X year after year and I agree with that to, because my prof had ran the labs for 5 years he knew exactly what code worked his way the best so like you said any thing else was wrong.   Well I think thats BS, The points a program should be rated on are as follows.
<br>
<br>
1) Does it work after being compiled
<br>
2) Does it compile on a normal none Microsoft compiler such Dev C++, GCC, Watcom C etc...
<br>
3) Does the code make sense to achieve the result.
<br>
<br>
It's to bad most profs don't mark this way but if they ever did it would be nice.
<br>
<br>
BTW I ended up snapping at my prof one day and theatened to take him to college board if he didn't pass me and sure enough he changed my 54 to 75, interesting how programs that worked were going to get 54 and after a few choice words that becomes a 75.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know what you mean , I had C Prof who could n't stand Linux / Unix .
So when I use to do my labs I 'd always use a Linux box and write the code to work on my Linux box , to make sure I could use the same code in Windows i just use to include the unix standard lib .
My prof hated that I did that and always said " If Linux was so good then there would be no Windows " , I of course do n't agree .
My prof was also a one compiler only teacher and if you could n't use Visual Studio then you could n't hand in your code , well sure enought my code never compiled in Visual .
When I told him to compile it in Dev he always got in a fuss .
It 's not that my code did n't work , infact it worked better then 90 \ % of the class .
My code was more portable because of library 's I used and it compiled under more standards of C , such as C99 GNU99 K&amp;R etc... . I also like above someone said that a Prof should n't had out Lab X year after year and I agree with that to , because my prof had ran the labs for 5 years he knew exactly what code worked his way the best so like you said any thing else was wrong .
Well I think thats BS , The points a program should be rated on are as follows .
1 ) Does it work after being compiled 2 ) Does it compile on a normal none Microsoft compiler such Dev C + + , GCC , Watcom C etc.. . 3 ) Does the code make sense to achieve the result .
It 's to bad most profs do n't mark this way but if they ever did it would be nice .
BTW I ended up snapping at my prof one day and theatened to take him to college board if he did n't pass me and sure enough he changed my 54 to 75 , interesting how programs that worked were going to get 54 and after a few choice words that becomes a 75 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know what you mean, I had C Prof who couldn't stand Linux / Unix.
So when I use to do my labs I'd always use a Linux box and write the code to work on my Linux box, to make sure I could use the same code in Windows i just use to include the unix standard lib.
My prof hated that I did that and always said "If Linux was so good then there would be no Windows", I of course don't agree.
My prof was also a one compiler only teacher and if you couldn't use Visual Studio then you couldn't hand in your code, well sure enought my code never compiled in Visual.
When I told him to compile it in Dev he always got in a fuss.
It's not that my code didn't work, infact it worked better then 90\% of the class.
My code was more portable because of library's I used and it compiled under more standards of C, such as C99 GNU99 K&amp;R etc....


I also like above someone said that a Prof shouldn't had out Lab X year after year and I agree with that to, because my prof had ran the labs for 5 years he knew exactly what code worked his way the best so like you said any thing else was wrong.
Well I think thats BS, The points a program should be rated on are as follows.
1) Does it work after being compiled

2) Does it compile on a normal none Microsoft compiler such Dev C++, GCC, Watcom C etc...

3) Does the code make sense to achieve the result.
It's to bad most profs don't mark this way but if they ever did it would be nice.
BTW I ended up snapping at my prof one day and theatened to take him to college board if he didn't pass me and sure enough he changed my 54 to 75, interesting how programs that worked were going to get 54 and after a few choice words that becomes a 75.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319939</id>
	<title>College debt - poor economic choices</title>
	<author>anegg</author>
	<datestamp>1244909100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cory -

If a student is going to be spending most of their working life repaying their college loans, they made a bad choice of college.  Perhaps we need a bigger emphasis on economics while the student is in high school.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cory - If a student is going to be spending most of their working life repaying their college loans , they made a bad choice of college .
Perhaps we need a bigger emphasis on economics while the student is in high school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cory -

If a student is going to be spending most of their working life repaying their college loans, they made a bad choice of college.
Perhaps we need a bigger emphasis on economics while the student is in high school.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28323295</id>
	<title>CS in a state of flux?  Please show me!</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1244896200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Computer science is in such a continuous state of flux</p></div><p>Really?</p><p>Maybe I have a view of CS that's be artificially narrowed through only being taught the things I have been taught, but:</p><p>In the last ten years,</p><ul><li>Are there any paradigm shifts?</li><li>Are there any major new subbranches being started?</li><li>Are there any fundamental notions being challenged?</li></ul><p>In short, how has CS changed?</p><p>The Church-Turing thesis still stands unchallenged.  No one knows whether P equals NP.  The parallel revolution is still in the future (even though algorithm guys study parallel algorithms).  We still don't have quantum computing or biocomputing worth talking much about (yay, we can factor 21---into 4 and 6).  By and large we still parse languages into a LALR(1) grammars like in... the 70's?  User interfaces, they're still mouse-and-keyboard, Window/Icon/Menu/Pointer.</p><p>Exactly what do you mean when you say "Computer Science is in flux"?  What's fluctuating?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Computer science is in such a continuous state of fluxReally ? Maybe I have a view of CS that 's be artificially narrowed through only being taught the things I have been taught , but : In the last ten years,Are there any paradigm shifts ? Are there any major new subbranches being started ? Are there any fundamental notions being challenged ? In short , how has CS changed ? The Church-Turing thesis still stands unchallenged .
No one knows whether P equals NP .
The parallel revolution is still in the future ( even though algorithm guys study parallel algorithms ) .
We still do n't have quantum computing or biocomputing worth talking much about ( yay , we can factor 21---into 4 and 6 ) .
By and large we still parse languages into a LALR ( 1 ) grammars like in... the 70 's ?
User interfaces , they 're still mouse-and-keyboard , Window/Icon/Menu/Pointer.Exactly what do you mean when you say " Computer Science is in flux " ?
What 's fluctuating ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Computer science is in such a continuous state of fluxReally?Maybe I have a view of CS that's be artificially narrowed through only being taught the things I have been taught, but:In the last ten years,Are there any paradigm shifts?Are there any major new subbranches being started?Are there any fundamental notions being challenged?In short, how has CS changed?The Church-Turing thesis still stands unchallenged.
No one knows whether P equals NP.
The parallel revolution is still in the future (even though algorithm guys study parallel algorithms).
We still don't have quantum computing or biocomputing worth talking much about (yay, we can factor 21---into 4 and 6).
By and large we still parse languages into a LALR(1) grammars like in... the 70's?
User interfaces, they're still mouse-and-keyboard, Window/Icon/Menu/Pointer.Exactly what do you mean when you say "Computer Science is in flux"?
What's fluctuating?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320925</id>
	<title>Massive Debt</title>
	<author>TomRK1089</author>
	<datestamp>1244917500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If your education puts you in debt that lasts a lifetime, you did it wrong. Yes, not everyone can afford even a public university, but most of the state unis around here have far, far lower tuition than anywhere else. And you can go to a community college for the first two years to knock out those damn Gen Eds for even cheaper than that. Yeah, there's a lot less scholarship money to go around now, but there's still some federal aid money that you can get your hands on too. The problem that I observed from my graduating class was that no one wanted to 'lower' themselves to a public university. Cutting off their nose to spite their face, and all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If your education puts you in debt that lasts a lifetime , you did it wrong .
Yes , not everyone can afford even a public university , but most of the state unis around here have far , far lower tuition than anywhere else .
And you can go to a community college for the first two years to knock out those damn Gen Eds for even cheaper than that .
Yeah , there 's a lot less scholarship money to go around now , but there 's still some federal aid money that you can get your hands on too .
The problem that I observed from my graduating class was that no one wanted to 'lower ' themselves to a public university .
Cutting off their nose to spite their face , and all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your education puts you in debt that lasts a lifetime, you did it wrong.
Yes, not everyone can afford even a public university, but most of the state unis around here have far, far lower tuition than anywhere else.
And you can go to a community college for the first two years to knock out those damn Gen Eds for even cheaper than that.
Yeah, there's a lot less scholarship money to go around now, but there's still some federal aid money that you can get your hands on too.
The problem that I observed from my graduating class was that no one wanted to 'lower' themselves to a public university.
Cutting off their nose to spite their face, and all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321063</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Helios1182</author>
	<datestamp>1244918340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Remember: Degree != Job Title.  In the USA, if you have "Professor" in your title at a university you are a professor.  Lecturer is a different title.  Titles in others countries are irrelevant when talking about the USA.</p><p>Also, you do not need to have a formal degree in a field to be an expert in a field.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Remember : Degree ! = Job Title .
In the USA , if you have " Professor " in your title at a university you are a professor .
Lecturer is a different title .
Titles in others countries are irrelevant when talking about the USA.Also , you do not need to have a formal degree in a field to be an expert in a field .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remember: Degree != Job Title.
In the USA, if you have "Professor" in your title at a university you are a professor.
Lecturer is a different title.
Titles in others countries are irrelevant when talking about the USA.Also, you do not need to have a formal degree in a field to be an expert in a field.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28322259</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Sperbels</author>
	<datestamp>1244885880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>+1 to that . I think (some not all ) educators need to get off there high horses and start being more innovative. Instead of always re-running assignment X for the past 5 years.</p></div><p>Why should they have to do this?  That doesn't make any sense.  It's like your employer telling you to rewrite your code every year (actually, I might like that).  It's a waste of time.  If you don't like the way a teacher asks you to do something...just quit bitching and do it.  That's the way it is in the real world.  Grow up.  Teachers are just people like you and me.  You may be convinced you'd do it all differently if roles were reversed.  But chances are you'd have plenty of students who didn't like the way you operate either.  This is an age old conflict that recurs in all walks of life: students and teachers, children and parents, employee and employer, citizen and politician.  Quit being a baby, it's life.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>+ 1 to that .
I think ( some not all ) educators need to get off there high horses and start being more innovative .
Instead of always re-running assignment X for the past 5 years.Why should they have to do this ?
That does n't make any sense .
It 's like your employer telling you to rewrite your code every year ( actually , I might like that ) .
It 's a waste of time .
If you do n't like the way a teacher asks you to do something...just quit bitching and do it .
That 's the way it is in the real world .
Grow up .
Teachers are just people like you and me .
You may be convinced you 'd do it all differently if roles were reversed .
But chances are you 'd have plenty of students who did n't like the way you operate either .
This is an age old conflict that recurs in all walks of life : students and teachers , children and parents , employee and employer , citizen and politician .
Quit being a baby , it 's life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>+1 to that .
I think (some not all ) educators need to get off there high horses and start being more innovative.
Instead of always re-running assignment X for the past 5 years.Why should they have to do this?
That doesn't make any sense.
It's like your employer telling you to rewrite your code every year (actually, I might like that).
It's a waste of time.
If you don't like the way a teacher asks you to do something...just quit bitching and do it.
That's the way it is in the real world.
Grow up.
Teachers are just people like you and me.
You may be convinced you'd do it all differently if roles were reversed.
But chances are you'd have plenty of students who didn't like the way you operate either.
This is an age old conflict that recurs in all walks of life: students and teachers, children and parents, employee and employer, citizen and politician.
Quit being a baby, it's life.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28323699</id>
	<title>Re:I would never have "published" my undergrad cod</title>
	<author>im\_thatoneguy</author>
	<datestamp>1244900520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>..as I recall, the campus newspaper charged by the line for classified ads</p></div><p>The good news for his bank account was that all of his projects were written in perl!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>..as I recall , the campus newspaper charged by the line for classified adsThe good news for his bank account was that all of his projects were written in perl !</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ..as I recall, the campus newspaper charged by the line for classified adsThe good news for his bank account was that all of his projects were written in perl!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319653</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319797</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1244907960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I used to copy/paste assignments when I was a TA, and finding cheats was as simple as running all turned in assignments against the library of previous code in a script for similarities.  If someone altered their cheating code enough that it fell below the threshold, then they did a lot more useless work than just writing the assignment (and they'd fail the next few classes while paying the university $$$).  I found one cheater who didn't change anything though, including the author names in comments.  I'd seen variable-name changers and comment changers before, but I'd never thought anyone would be that lazy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to copy/paste assignments when I was a TA , and finding cheats was as simple as running all turned in assignments against the library of previous code in a script for similarities .
If someone altered their cheating code enough that it fell below the threshold , then they did a lot more useless work than just writing the assignment ( and they 'd fail the next few classes while paying the university $ $ $ ) .
I found one cheater who did n't change anything though , including the author names in comments .
I 'd seen variable-name changers and comment changers before , but I 'd never thought anyone would be that lazy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to copy/paste assignments when I was a TA, and finding cheats was as simple as running all turned in assignments against the library of previous code in a script for similarities.
If someone altered their cheating code enough that it fell below the threshold, then they did a lot more useless work than just writing the assignment (and they'd fail the next few classes while paying the university $$$).
I found one cheater who didn't change anything though, including the author names in comments.
I'd seen variable-name changers and comment changers before, but I'd never thought anyone would be that lazy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319525</id>
	<title>Sharing Code is Good</title>
	<author>Murdoch5</author>
	<datestamp>1244904960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This prof should be taken into questioning by the University.  How can he / she agrue that the student commited any breach of ethics.  If the profs wants to tell the student  that he can fail if he doesn't take his code down then just what does this prof think of Open Source projects. I had  a simlar prof at my College who couldn't stand when students shared even the smallest line of code, even a printf.
<br>
<br>
I have to give the student credit because he didn't put it up till after the due date, meaning no one could cheat.  In either case it's his right to share his code and if he wants to post it then he should be allowed. If another student copies the code then get the other student in trouble and not the original author.
<br>
<br>
If a student is dumb enough to copy code straight from a source with out understanding it then they should fail.  There is nothing wrong with reading code to understand it and then writing the code yourself in your own style.
<br>
<br>
The student who posted his code did nothing wrong, he wouldn't of done anything wrong even if he posted when he finished even if the dead line was not up.  His code his choice, as long as he put a disclaimer up saying not to copy it or even the GPL or one of it's variants then he's covered.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This prof should be taken into questioning by the University .
How can he / she agrue that the student commited any breach of ethics .
If the profs wants to tell the student that he can fail if he does n't take his code down then just what does this prof think of Open Source projects .
I had a simlar prof at my College who could n't stand when students shared even the smallest line of code , even a printf .
I have to give the student credit because he did n't put it up till after the due date , meaning no one could cheat .
In either case it 's his right to share his code and if he wants to post it then he should be allowed .
If another student copies the code then get the other student in trouble and not the original author .
If a student is dumb enough to copy code straight from a source with out understanding it then they should fail .
There is nothing wrong with reading code to understand it and then writing the code yourself in your own style .
The student who posted his code did nothing wrong , he would n't of done anything wrong even if he posted when he finished even if the dead line was not up .
His code his choice , as long as he put a disclaimer up saying not to copy it or even the GPL or one of it 's variants then he 's covered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This prof should be taken into questioning by the University.
How can he / she agrue that the student commited any breach of ethics.
If the profs wants to tell the student  that he can fail if he doesn't take his code down then just what does this prof think of Open Source projects.
I had  a simlar prof at my College who couldn't stand when students shared even the smallest line of code, even a printf.
I have to give the student credit because he didn't put it up till after the due date, meaning no one could cheat.
In either case it's his right to share his code and if he wants to post it then he should be allowed.
If another student copies the code then get the other student in trouble and not the original author.
If a student is dumb enough to copy code straight from a source with out understanding it then they should fail.
There is nothing wrong with reading code to understand it and then writing the code yourself in your own style.
The student who posted his code did nothing wrong, he wouldn't of done anything wrong even if he posted when he finished even if the dead line was not up.
His code his choice, as long as he put a disclaimer up saying not to copy it or even the GPL or one of it's variants then he's covered.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319629</id>
	<title>another take on restricting distribution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244906040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What if you have inadvertently executed an agreement (as part of enrollment) that assigns copyright to the university for all your works? What if you (perhaps by a click through agreement) have agreed to not redistribute, because they archive all submissions to use in a plagiarism checker?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if you have inadvertently executed an agreement ( as part of enrollment ) that assigns copyright to the university for all your works ?
What if you ( perhaps by a click through agreement ) have agreed to not redistribute , because they archive all submissions to use in a plagiarism checker ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if you have inadvertently executed an agreement (as part of enrollment) that assigns copyright to the university for all your works?
What if you (perhaps by a click through agreement) have agreed to not redistribute, because they archive all submissions to use in a plagiarism checker?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28327527</id>
	<title>Re:The Professor is an Idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245004680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, depending on the Universities policies, the University really might own the student's coursework. I know that as a math grad student at Michigan State, this was the case for final exams.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , depending on the Universities policies , the University really might own the student 's coursework .
I know that as a math grad student at Michigan State , this was the case for final exams .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, depending on the Universities policies, the University really might own the student's coursework.
I know that as a math grad student at Michigan State, this was the case for final exams.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319773</id>
	<title>In the unlikely case...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244907660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have not seen the prof's defense here. Although I agree with the speculation here that he's probably lazy, we cannot rule out the possibility that there are other motives at play.<br>I looked at the student's code. Lots of arrays, lots of for loops, for the purpose of array initialization, for example. No display of abstract thinking but rather a level of implementation that I would expect from a garden variety programmer.<br>So, what if the prof, gracefully, lets the kid pass, because the programs produce the required results, yet disagrees with the implementation because it does not show problem solving capacity as perhaps taught in class.    Perhaps the kid *should* have failed based on the profs stated standards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have not seen the prof 's defense here .
Although I agree with the speculation here that he 's probably lazy , we can not rule out the possibility that there are other motives at play.I looked at the student 's code .
Lots of arrays , lots of for loops , for the purpose of array initialization , for example .
No display of abstract thinking but rather a level of implementation that I would expect from a garden variety programmer.So , what if the prof , gracefully , lets the kid pass , because the programs produce the required results , yet disagrees with the implementation because it does not show problem solving capacity as perhaps taught in class .
Perhaps the kid * should * have failed based on the profs stated standards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have not seen the prof's defense here.
Although I agree with the speculation here that he's probably lazy, we cannot rule out the possibility that there are other motives at play.I looked at the student's code.
Lots of arrays, lots of for loops, for the purpose of array initialization, for example.
No display of abstract thinking but rather a level of implementation that I would expect from a garden variety programmer.So, what if the prof, gracefully, lets the kid pass, because the programs produce the required results, yet disagrees with the implementation because it does not show problem solving capacity as perhaps taught in class.
Perhaps the kid *should* have failed based on the profs stated standards.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321699</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244923740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He may not be a prof, but he's definitely a Grade-A cock.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He may not be a prof , but he 's definitely a Grade-A cock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He may not be a prof, but he's definitely a Grade-A cock.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319451</id>
	<title>The Professor is an Idiot</title>
	<author>PvtVoid</author>
	<datestamp>1244904180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Simply put: professors do not own their students' coursework. If a student writes a short story as an assignment for a creative writing class, can the professor prohibit the student from later publishing it? To call that academic misconduct would be absurd on the face of it. Now, what is different about computer code?
<br> <br>
Kudos to SJSU for backing the student on this. Beeson is clearly out of line, and I hope that students will make a big stink if he tries to insert some idiotic no-publish clause in future assignments.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Simply put : professors do not own their students ' coursework .
If a student writes a short story as an assignment for a creative writing class , can the professor prohibit the student from later publishing it ?
To call that academic misconduct would be absurd on the face of it .
Now , what is different about computer code ?
Kudos to SJSU for backing the student on this .
Beeson is clearly out of line , and I hope that students will make a big stink if he tries to insert some idiotic no-publish clause in future assignments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Simply put: professors do not own their students' coursework.
If a student writes a short story as an assignment for a creative writing class, can the professor prohibit the student from later publishing it?
To call that academic misconduct would be absurd on the face of it.
Now, what is different about computer code?
Kudos to SJSU for backing the student on this.
Beeson is clearly out of line, and I hope that students will make a big stink if he tries to insert some idiotic no-publish clause in future assignments.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319409</id>
	<title>FIRST! And welcome to fraternity file cabinets</title>
	<author>Antique Geekmeister</author>
	<datestamp>1244903760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FIRST POST!! Oh, dear, you must have all had a good Friday night.</p><p>There's an old practice of fraternities at my college, where they kept file cabinets filled with old homework and course notes of all the classes their members took.  I had wondered how some frat boys coasted through so many classes and got so much more sleep than those of us who struggled working to pay for college, paying for food, etc. Then I found out this was one of their most important reasons. It was a known practice, and one of the less publicly mentioned benefits of joining a fraternity.</p><p>Since small-scale publication of old hoomework and course notes, such as what I describe above, has been going on for centuries, it seems completely reasonable that larger scale publication be permitted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FIRST POST ! !
Oh , dear , you must have all had a good Friday night.There 's an old practice of fraternities at my college , where they kept file cabinets filled with old homework and course notes of all the classes their members took .
I had wondered how some frat boys coasted through so many classes and got so much more sleep than those of us who struggled working to pay for college , paying for food , etc .
Then I found out this was one of their most important reasons .
It was a known practice , and one of the less publicly mentioned benefits of joining a fraternity.Since small-scale publication of old hoomework and course notes , such as what I describe above , has been going on for centuries , it seems completely reasonable that larger scale publication be permitted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FIRST POST!!
Oh, dear, you must have all had a good Friday night.There's an old practice of fraternities at my college, where they kept file cabinets filled with old homework and course notes of all the classes their members took.
I had wondered how some frat boys coasted through so many classes and got so much more sleep than those of us who struggled working to pay for college, paying for food, etc.
Then I found out this was one of their most important reasons.
It was a known practice, and one of the less publicly mentioned benefits of joining a fraternity.Since small-scale publication of old hoomework and course notes, such as what I describe above, has been going on for centuries, it seems completely reasonable that larger scale publication be permitted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28324897</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>TheTurtlesMoves</author>
	<datestamp>1244919840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester isn't showing any commitment, and certainly isn't staying with the times..</p></div><p>If I am given several courses to teach each semester. Nobody asks how much time that takes or if it was a good course or anything. They only ask why I haven't published as many peer reviewed papers this year. The excuse that I was teaching a lot this year doesn't work. We find it hard to find the time to be so committed.
<br> <br>
When I apply to work at a different university, about the only thing they look at is publications.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester is n't showing any commitment , and certainly is n't staying with the times..If I am given several courses to teach each semester .
Nobody asks how much time that takes or if it was a good course or anything .
They only ask why I have n't published as many peer reviewed papers this year .
The excuse that I was teaching a lot this year does n't work .
We find it hard to find the time to be so committed .
When I apply to work at a different university , about the only thing they look at is publications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester isn't showing any commitment, and certainly isn't staying with the times..If I am given several courses to teach each semester.
Nobody asks how much time that takes or if it was a good course or anything.
They only ask why I haven't published as many peer reviewed papers this year.
The excuse that I was teaching a lot this year doesn't work.
We find it hard to find the time to be so committed.
When I apply to work at a different university, about the only thing they look at is publications.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320711</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244915760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy "tweak and resubmit" assignment.  Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester isn't showing any commitment, and certainly isn't staying with the times.  Computer science is in such a continuous state of flux that any prof that isn't consistently reworking their coursework isn't doing their job.</p></div><p>Depends on the school.  I'm and adjunct professor at a local satellite campus, and I teach the same class every year.  The topic is data structures, and not a lot changes year over year when you're talking about something so fundamental.  I have changed my curriculum each year, but only because I have yet to find a book that I feel really treats the topic well.  Each book has some high points and some glaring low points, but I dream of the day when my lectures actually become somewhat static.  I spend way too much time tweaking my lecture notes.</p><p>Also, you don't seem to have considered that in some courses, each programming assignment builds on the one before.  By posting his assignments, even after the due dates, he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments. </p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you 're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy " tweak and resubmit " assignment .
Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester is n't showing any commitment , and certainly is n't staying with the times .
Computer science is in such a continuous state of flux that any prof that is n't consistently reworking their coursework is n't doing their job.Depends on the school .
I 'm and adjunct professor at a local satellite campus , and I teach the same class every year .
The topic is data structures , and not a lot changes year over year when you 're talking about something so fundamental .
I have changed my curriculum each year , but only because I have yet to find a book that I feel really treats the topic well .
Each book has some high points and some glaring low points , but I dream of the day when my lectures actually become somewhat static .
I spend way too much time tweaking my lecture notes.Also , you do n't seem to have considered that in some courses , each programming assignment builds on the one before .
By posting his assignments , even after the due dates , he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy "tweak and resubmit" assignment.
Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester isn't showing any commitment, and certainly isn't staying with the times.
Computer science is in such a continuous state of flux that any prof that isn't consistently reworking their coursework isn't doing their job.Depends on the school.
I'm and adjunct professor at a local satellite campus, and I teach the same class every year.
The topic is data structures, and not a lot changes year over year when you're talking about something so fundamental.
I have changed my curriculum each year, but only because I have yet to find a book that I feel really treats the topic well.
Each book has some high points and some glaring low points, but I dream of the day when my lectures actually become somewhat static.
I spend way too much time tweaking my lecture notes.Also, you don't seem to have considered that in some courses, each programming assignment builds on the one before.
By posting his assignments, even after the due dates, he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments. 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28322083</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244884320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wrong. A professor does NOT have to have a PhD.</p><p>A good real life example is Professor Mick Aston. He is an emeritus professor of archaeology and he never got his doctorate. The reason that he did not get his doctorate was that his doctoral thesis was destroyed shortly before submission due to no fault of his own, but that does not change the fact that he became a full professor without a doctorate.</p><p>It is extremely rare to have a professor without a PhD or other doctoral-level qualification, but it is possible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong .
A professor does NOT have to have a PhD.A good real life example is Professor Mick Aston .
He is an emeritus professor of archaeology and he never got his doctorate .
The reason that he did not get his doctorate was that his doctoral thesis was destroyed shortly before submission due to no fault of his own , but that does not change the fact that he became a full professor without a doctorate.It is extremely rare to have a professor without a PhD or other doctoral-level qualification , but it is possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong.
A professor does NOT have to have a PhD.A good real life example is Professor Mick Aston.
He is an emeritus professor of archaeology and he never got his doctorate.
The reason that he did not get his doctorate was that his doctoral thesis was destroyed shortly before submission due to no fault of his own, but that does not change the fact that he became a full professor without a doctorate.It is extremely rare to have a professor without a PhD or other doctoral-level qualification, but it is possible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28342383</id>
	<title>Re:College debt - poor economic choices</title>
	<author>DragonWriter</author>
	<datestamp>1245070020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Cory - If a student is going to be spending most of their working life repaying their college loans, they made a bad choice of college.</p></div></blockquote><p>Certainly, if most of their income over their working life repays their college loans, they've made a bad choice. But being in the process of repaying them for most of your working life may be the result of good choices: college loans are often very low interest, so its often better to keep the longer repayment terms (and lower payments), and use the invest the extra money (or reduce <i>other</i> borrowing you might engage in) rather than paying off student loans as quickly as possible. And, of course, the more quickly you make enough to retire, the shorter the "working life" you are talking about in the first place.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cory - If a student is going to be spending most of their working life repaying their college loans , they made a bad choice of college.Certainly , if most of their income over their working life repays their college loans , they 've made a bad choice .
But being in the process of repaying them for most of your working life may be the result of good choices : college loans are often very low interest , so its often better to keep the longer repayment terms ( and lower payments ) , and use the invest the extra money ( or reduce other borrowing you might engage in ) rather than paying off student loans as quickly as possible .
And , of course , the more quickly you make enough to retire , the shorter the " working life " you are talking about in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cory - If a student is going to be spending most of their working life repaying their college loans, they made a bad choice of college.Certainly, if most of their income over their working life repays their college loans, they've made a bad choice.
But being in the process of repaying them for most of your working life may be the result of good choices: college loans are often very low interest, so its often better to keep the longer repayment terms (and lower payments), and use the invest the extra money (or reduce other borrowing you might engage in) rather than paying off student loans as quickly as possible.
And, of course, the more quickly you make enough to retire, the shorter the "working life" you are talking about in the first place.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319939</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321705</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>WeirdJohn</author>
	<datestamp>1244923740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a little more complicated than that.  In the USA, and in Korea (and a few other places in Asia) any teaching role at a University tends to be called "professor", regardless of tenure or chair.  Indeed I meet teachers from community college when I lived in the US that were introduced to me as "professor" who were confused when I asked what their chair was.</p><p>In Universities based on the Oxbridge model, tenure alone does not make one a Professor.  Holding a chair does though.  At that point in your career you can only really lose your job if found guilty of a major case of academic fraud or gross sexual impropriety with a student.  The chief qualifications are an excellent publication record and being very good at politics and grant applications.</p><p>Associate Professor is really a courtesy title, and indicates that maybe one day you might hold a chair.  It also relates to pay scale.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a little more complicated than that .
In the USA , and in Korea ( and a few other places in Asia ) any teaching role at a University tends to be called " professor " , regardless of tenure or chair .
Indeed I meet teachers from community college when I lived in the US that were introduced to me as " professor " who were confused when I asked what their chair was.In Universities based on the Oxbridge model , tenure alone does not make one a Professor .
Holding a chair does though .
At that point in your career you can only really lose your job if found guilty of a major case of academic fraud or gross sexual impropriety with a student .
The chief qualifications are an excellent publication record and being very good at politics and grant applications.Associate Professor is really a courtesy title , and indicates that maybe one day you might hold a chair .
It also relates to pay scale .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a little more complicated than that.
In the USA, and in Korea (and a few other places in Asia) any teaching role at a University tends to be called "professor", regardless of tenure or chair.
Indeed I meet teachers from community college when I lived in the US that were introduced to me as "professor" who were confused when I asked what their chair was.In Universities based on the Oxbridge model, tenure alone does not make one a Professor.
Holding a chair does though.
At that point in your career you can only really lose your job if found guilty of a major case of academic fraud or gross sexual impropriety with a student.
The chief qualifications are an excellent publication record and being very good at politics and grant applications.Associate Professor is really a courtesy title, and indicates that maybe one day you might hold a chair.
It also relates to pay scale.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320459</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320303</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244912460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That being said, we can't really hold that mistake against him as he does have all the education of a glass of water.</p></div><p>I do not know the guy, but I take exception to this remark. Perhaps he has no <i>formal</i> education at a university but unless you think that one cannot be educated outside of institutions then this is a remark without merit.</p><p>I work in the fire service and the most educational classes I've ever taken haven't always been from the people with PhDs in fire science. The best classes I've taken have been from the instructors who had no degree but with 30+ years of experience who are active in their expertise.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Me, I've been teaching university in the US and Japan for 6 years. I, too, am not a "prof." I was pretty stoked when I started this job in April and moved up from "Senior Lecturer" to "Assistant Professor."  My former boss in the US runs an entire state university's Japanese program, and has done so for 20 years. Her title? "Lecturer." Why? No PhD, just a master's.</p></div><p>Your anger at this is evident, but please don't fall into the trap of thinking that just because you're in such a system that it is always right or the only way.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That being said , we ca n't really hold that mistake against him as he does have all the education of a glass of water.I do not know the guy , but I take exception to this remark .
Perhaps he has no formal education at a university but unless you think that one can not be educated outside of institutions then this is a remark without merit.I work in the fire service and the most educational classes I 've ever taken have n't always been from the people with PhDs in fire science .
The best classes I 've taken have been from the instructors who had no degree but with 30 + years of experience who are active in their expertise.Me , I 've been teaching university in the US and Japan for 6 years .
I , too , am not a " prof. " I was pretty stoked when I started this job in April and moved up from " Senior Lecturer " to " Assistant Professor .
" My former boss in the US runs an entire state university 's Japanese program , and has done so for 20 years .
Her title ?
" Lecturer. " Why ?
No PhD , just a master 's.Your anger at this is evident , but please do n't fall into the trap of thinking that just because you 're in such a system that it is always right or the only way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That being said, we can't really hold that mistake against him as he does have all the education of a glass of water.I do not know the guy, but I take exception to this remark.
Perhaps he has no formal education at a university but unless you think that one cannot be educated outside of institutions then this is a remark without merit.I work in the fire service and the most educational classes I've ever taken haven't always been from the people with PhDs in fire science.
The best classes I've taken have been from the instructors who had no degree but with 30+ years of experience who are active in their expertise.Me, I've been teaching university in the US and Japan for 6 years.
I, too, am not a "prof." I was pretty stoked when I started this job in April and moved up from "Senior Lecturer" to "Assistant Professor.
"  My former boss in the US runs an entire state university's Japanese program, and has done so for 20 years.
Her title?
"Lecturer." Why?
No PhD, just a master's.Your anger at this is evident, but please don't fall into the trap of thinking that just because you're in such a system that it is always right or the only way.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319753</id>
	<title>Outsourcing is the new method for cheaters</title>
	<author>jrhawk42</author>
	<datestamp>1244907480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can sort of see where the professor is coming from.  This is similar to a student posting scan-tron results from a test, but unlike the scan-tron results this actually has other uses besides cheating.  Anyway copying is now an archaic form a cheating, and it seems most students who are going to cheat are moving to outsourcing.  Instead of buying an essay that was already written, they pay a professional to write it, or in this case they pay a programmer to write it.  Most professors won't do much until it becomes a problem, and even then there's really nothing the school can do until they find the original writer, or the student confesses.  Most teachers will just increase the workload trying which pretty much just tortures everybody instead of just the cheaters.  Hell about 2 years ago it seems like schools were almost proud there CS students were outsourcing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can sort of see where the professor is coming from .
This is similar to a student posting scan-tron results from a test , but unlike the scan-tron results this actually has other uses besides cheating .
Anyway copying is now an archaic form a cheating , and it seems most students who are going to cheat are moving to outsourcing .
Instead of buying an essay that was already written , they pay a professional to write it , or in this case they pay a programmer to write it .
Most professors wo n't do much until it becomes a problem , and even then there 's really nothing the school can do until they find the original writer , or the student confesses .
Most teachers will just increase the workload trying which pretty much just tortures everybody instead of just the cheaters .
Hell about 2 years ago it seems like schools were almost proud there CS students were outsourcing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can sort of see where the professor is coming from.
This is similar to a student posting scan-tron results from a test, but unlike the scan-tron results this actually has other uses besides cheating.
Anyway copying is now an archaic form a cheating, and it seems most students who are going to cheat are moving to outsourcing.
Instead of buying an essay that was already written, they pay a professional to write it, or in this case they pay a programmer to write it.
Most professors won't do much until it becomes a problem, and even then there's really nothing the school can do until they find the original writer, or the student confesses.
Most teachers will just increase the workload trying which pretty much just tortures everybody instead of just the cheaters.
Hell about 2 years ago it seems like schools were almost proud there CS students were outsourcing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321665</id>
	<title>Simple solution: sign a copyright transfer note</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244923440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am Markos Nt. Apostolidis, a Professor of computer science at a private university in Greece, EU (cooperating as a franchise with a British university) and author of a book on Pascal, and we do not allow our students to post their answers or code to homework questions online or otherwise make them available to others, as we treat our students' answers as either the private university's or my own intellectual property (depending on who wrote the initial homework questions). The reason is simple: if we allowed our students to post their code, we would have to change our homework questions with each new class, something we have absolutely no intention of doing as the problem is easily solved by having the students to sign a copyright transfer agreement when they sign up for their studies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am Markos Nt .
Apostolidis , a Professor of computer science at a private university in Greece , EU ( cooperating as a franchise with a British university ) and author of a book on Pascal , and we do not allow our students to post their answers or code to homework questions online or otherwise make them available to others , as we treat our students ' answers as either the private university 's or my own intellectual property ( depending on who wrote the initial homework questions ) .
The reason is simple : if we allowed our students to post their code , we would have to change our homework questions with each new class , something we have absolutely no intention of doing as the problem is easily solved by having the students to sign a copyright transfer agreement when they sign up for their studies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am Markos Nt.
Apostolidis, a Professor of computer science at a private university in Greece, EU (cooperating as a franchise with a British university) and author of a book on Pascal, and we do not allow our students to post their answers or code to homework questions online or otherwise make them available to others, as we treat our students' answers as either the private university's or my own intellectual property (depending on who wrote the initial homework questions).
The reason is simple: if we allowed our students to post their code, we would have to change our homework questions with each new class, something we have absolutely no intention of doing as the problem is easily solved by having the students to sign a copyright transfer agreement when they sign up for their studies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320161</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244911380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question.</p></div><p>So, a "visiting professor" is not a professor?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>My buddy who just finished law school but hasn't found out if he passed the bar yet is a "half-lawyer."</p></div><p>So a formal education is the <a href="http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=318636" title="google.com">only way</a> [google.com] to become even "half" a lawyer?<br>Does that mean that people who pass the bar examine without graduating from a law school are only "half" a lawyer too?  Just the "other" half?</p><p>If you are going to get your panties in a twist over semantics, you probably should get your own semantic ducks in perfect formation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question.So , a " visiting professor " is not a professor ? My buddy who just finished law school but has n't found out if he passed the bar yet is a " half-lawyer .
" So a formal education is the only way [ google.com ] to become even " half " a lawyer ? Does that mean that people who pass the bar examine without graduating from a law school are only " half " a lawyer too ?
Just the " other " half ? If you are going to get your panties in a twist over semantics , you probably should get your own semantic ducks in perfect formation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question.So, a "visiting professor" is not a professor?My buddy who just finished law school but hasn't found out if he passed the bar yet is a "half-lawyer.
"So a formal education is the only way [google.com] to become even "half" a lawyer?Does that mean that people who pass the bar examine without graduating from a law school are only "half" a lawyer too?
Just the "other" half?If you are going to get your panties in a twist over semantics, you probably should get your own semantic ducks in perfect formation.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320107</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244910900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't imagine why someone would ban you for posting such a bitter and dull story on their own personal blog. The nerve of someone, ejecting you from their virtual living room because you took a fat dump on the coffee table! What is the world coming to when you can't even tell black jokes at the club, I TELL YOU WHUT, PODNER, WE GOTS TA CLEAN UP THIS HERE TOWN.</p><p>Oh wait, I have a better idea. STFU N00B.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't imagine why someone would ban you for posting such a bitter and dull story on their own personal blog .
The nerve of someone , ejecting you from their virtual living room because you took a fat dump on the coffee table !
What is the world coming to when you ca n't even tell black jokes at the club , I TELL YOU WHUT , PODNER , WE GOTS TA CLEAN UP THIS HERE TOWN.Oh wait , I have a better idea .
STFU N00B .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't imagine why someone would ban you for posting such a bitter and dull story on their own personal blog.
The nerve of someone, ejecting you from their virtual living room because you took a fat dump on the coffee table!
What is the world coming to when you can't even tell black jokes at the club, I TELL YOU WHUT, PODNER, WE GOTS TA CLEAN UP THIS HERE TOWN.Oh wait, I have a better idea.
STFU N00B.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319875</id>
	<title>Re:The Professor is an Idiot</title>
	<author>russotto</author>
	<datestamp>1244908560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The course agreement for most universities attributes the copyright from any works you create during your studies to the unversity. They own it.</p></div></blockquote><p>Where did the student sign this agreement, specifically?  In the US, a written and signed agreement is necessary for copyright transfer.  A policy statement by the university isn't going to cut it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The course agreement for most universities attributes the copyright from any works you create during your studies to the unversity .
They own it.Where did the student sign this agreement , specifically ?
In the US , a written and signed agreement is necessary for copyright transfer .
A policy statement by the university is n't going to cut it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The course agreement for most universities attributes the copyright from any works you create during your studies to the unversity.
They own it.Where did the student sign this agreement, specifically?
In the US, a written and signed agreement is necessary for copyright transfer.
A policy statement by the university isn't going to cut it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319663</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319987</id>
	<title>I agree, as a prof</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244909820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"But the convenience of profs must be secondary to the pedagogical value of the university experience..."</p><p>Exactly.  That's what we're paid money for -- to come up with new material.  It may be inconvenient, but too bad.  Students should be able to present their work as soon as is possible without compromising the course integrity.  It's their work.</p><p>That being said, I would still make it a matter of policy that students not distribute the results of their work until the end of the course unless they have permission from me.  I'd ask them to ask me if it is okay to make it available sooner than that, and usually it would be (I might say in class: after date X you can release the code from assignment Y, but not before).  The reason why I might say "no" is pretty simple: sometimes people have to turn in assignments late for legitimate reasons (e.g., illness), and that could create a problem even for code released after the nominal due date.  Sometimes the nature of the assignments is such that having access to other students' earlier ones would undermine the assignment.  Basically, whether it is safe to release or not depends on the situation.  It would be a courtesy to check for this possibility before going ahead and releasing the code.  There is a balance to strike here, and it's the sort of thing that hopefully the students would understand.</p><p>But if it is for the instructor to avoid having to make new assignments next term, that rationale makes no sense.  Any stipulation about release dates should stop at the end of the class.  Students should be able to proudly share their work after the evaluation of it.  It's motivating and it's a way to learn from your peers.  The possibility of cheating is pervasive whether they do this or not, and it is something that can be mitigated other ways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" But the convenience of profs must be secondary to the pedagogical value of the university experience... " Exactly .
That 's what we 're paid money for -- to come up with new material .
It may be inconvenient , but too bad .
Students should be able to present their work as soon as is possible without compromising the course integrity .
It 's their work.That being said , I would still make it a matter of policy that students not distribute the results of their work until the end of the course unless they have permission from me .
I 'd ask them to ask me if it is okay to make it available sooner than that , and usually it would be ( I might say in class : after date X you can release the code from assignment Y , but not before ) .
The reason why I might say " no " is pretty simple : sometimes people have to turn in assignments late for legitimate reasons ( e.g. , illness ) , and that could create a problem even for code released after the nominal due date .
Sometimes the nature of the assignments is such that having access to other students ' earlier ones would undermine the assignment .
Basically , whether it is safe to release or not depends on the situation .
It would be a courtesy to check for this possibility before going ahead and releasing the code .
There is a balance to strike here , and it 's the sort of thing that hopefully the students would understand.But if it is for the instructor to avoid having to make new assignments next term , that rationale makes no sense .
Any stipulation about release dates should stop at the end of the class .
Students should be able to proudly share their work after the evaluation of it .
It 's motivating and it 's a way to learn from your peers .
The possibility of cheating is pervasive whether they do this or not , and it is something that can be mitigated other ways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"But the convenience of profs must be secondary to the pedagogical value of the university experience..."Exactly.
That's what we're paid money for -- to come up with new material.
It may be inconvenient, but too bad.
Students should be able to present their work as soon as is possible without compromising the course integrity.
It's their work.That being said, I would still make it a matter of policy that students not distribute the results of their work until the end of the course unless they have permission from me.
I'd ask them to ask me if it is okay to make it available sooner than that, and usually it would be (I might say in class: after date X you can release the code from assignment Y, but not before).
The reason why I might say "no" is pretty simple: sometimes people have to turn in assignments late for legitimate reasons (e.g., illness), and that could create a problem even for code released after the nominal due date.
Sometimes the nature of the assignments is such that having access to other students' earlier ones would undermine the assignment.
Basically, whether it is safe to release or not depends on the situation.
It would be a courtesy to check for this possibility before going ahead and releasing the code.
There is a balance to strike here, and it's the sort of thing that hopefully the students would understand.But if it is for the instructor to avoid having to make new assignments next term, that rationale makes no sense.
Any stipulation about release dates should stop at the end of the class.
Students should be able to proudly share their work after the evaluation of it.
It's motivating and it's a way to learn from your peers.
The possibility of cheating is pervasive whether they do this or not, and it is something that can be mitigated other ways.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320695</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Berfert</author>
	<datestamp>1244915580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question. </p></div><p>The definition of professor depends entirely on the locale and university in question. Your definition, while one of them, is not the only one. Poking around dictionaries and wikipedia will provide other definitions (up to and including anyone that happens to teach at a college/university).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question .
The definition of professor depends entirely on the locale and university in question .
Your definition , while one of them , is not the only one .
Poking around dictionaries and wikipedia will provide other definitions ( up to and including anyone that happens to teach at a college/university ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question.
The definition of professor depends entirely on the locale and university in question.
Your definition, while one of them, is not the only one.
Poking around dictionaries and wikipedia will provide other definitions (up to and including anyone that happens to teach at a college/university).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320471</id>
	<title>In-class testing</title>
	<author>hessian</author>
	<datestamp>1244913780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This will not be popular.</p><p>The teacher has found favorite assignments to give, for reasons of his own. The students now have access to those between years. Teachers don't like that. Many of my best teachers recycled most assignments because those assignments were designed very carefully and deliberately to be best at extracting certain knowledge.</p><p>However, in the internet age... there will soon be very similar projects that people can google, or other teachers will lift those assignments, or students will pass them between grade-years as was common when I was an undergrad.</p><p>My solution is simple:</p><p>In-class testing. Get students into a room without their personal machines and force them to create from scratch, or even... dear God no... use pen and paper.</p><p>This is equally important in the humanities as the sciences. Tests exist for a reason, because a student who does well on homework but poorly on tests is probably either (a) having extreme test anxiety or (b) cheating, being helped by parents or friends, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This will not be popular.The teacher has found favorite assignments to give , for reasons of his own .
The students now have access to those between years .
Teachers do n't like that .
Many of my best teachers recycled most assignments because those assignments were designed very carefully and deliberately to be best at extracting certain knowledge.However , in the internet age... there will soon be very similar projects that people can google , or other teachers will lift those assignments , or students will pass them between grade-years as was common when I was an undergrad.My solution is simple : In-class testing .
Get students into a room without their personal machines and force them to create from scratch , or even... dear God no... use pen and paper.This is equally important in the humanities as the sciences .
Tests exist for a reason , because a student who does well on homework but poorly on tests is probably either ( a ) having extreme test anxiety or ( b ) cheating , being helped by parents or friends , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This will not be popular.The teacher has found favorite assignments to give, for reasons of his own.
The students now have access to those between years.
Teachers don't like that.
Many of my best teachers recycled most assignments because those assignments were designed very carefully and deliberately to be best at extracting certain knowledge.However, in the internet age... there will soon be very similar projects that people can google, or other teachers will lift those assignments, or students will pass them between grade-years as was common when I was an undergrad.My solution is simple:In-class testing.
Get students into a room without their personal machines and force them to create from scratch, or even... dear God no... use pen and paper.This is equally important in the humanities as the sciences.
Tests exist for a reason, because a student who does well on homework but poorly on tests is probably either (a) having extreme test anxiety or (b) cheating, being helped by parents or friends, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320359</id>
	<title>Re:FIRST! And welcome to fraternity file cabinets</title>
	<author>ultranova</author>
	<datestamp>1244912940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Those guys will probably be your boss, since they're more efficient than you.</p></div> </blockquote><p>That would explain why he hates them &gt;;].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Those guys will probably be your boss , since they 're more efficient than you .
That would explain why he hates them &gt; ; ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those guys will probably be your boss, since they're more efficient than you.
That would explain why he hates them &gt;;].
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319759</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320109</id>
	<title>Re:FIRST! And welcome to fraternity file cabinets</title>
	<author>Deltaspectre</author>
	<datestamp>1244910900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny, because right before finals one of my teachers for an EE class refused to release answers for previous tests that we could practice with on the basis that he didn't want it ending up in some frats file cabinet!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny , because right before finals one of my teachers for an EE class refused to release answers for previous tests that we could practice with on the basis that he did n't want it ending up in some frats file cabinet !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny, because right before finals one of my teachers for an EE class refused to release answers for previous tests that we could practice with on the basis that he didn't want it ending up in some frats file cabinet!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319409</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244905620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The student released the source after the release date, which prevented any of his peers from cheating</i></p><p>Prevented them from cheating <b>this semester</b>.  I'm sure the reason the prof wanted it taken down is so he could easily just copy-n-paste next semester's assignment.  This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.</p><p>Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy "tweak and resubmit" assignment.  Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester isn't showing any commitment, and certainly isn't staying with the times.  Computer science is in such a continuous state of flux that any prof that isn't consistently reworking their coursework isn't doing their job.</p><p>Catching these sorts of cheats isn't too difficult either even if you don't want to start projects from scratch.  Just a matter of properly adjusting the project.  Make a few fundamental changes that make it look different, update as needed, and subtly tweak a few things. (make a small change to limits etc)  This makes it fresh and new, and is fairly easy to spot a cheat since they will blatantly be meeting subtle goals from the wrong project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The student released the source after the release date , which prevented any of his peers from cheatingPrevented them from cheating this semester .
I 'm sure the reason the prof wanted it taken down is so he could easily just copy-n-paste next semester 's assignment .
This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you 're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy " tweak and resubmit " assignment .
Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester is n't showing any commitment , and certainly is n't staying with the times .
Computer science is in such a continuous state of flux that any prof that is n't consistently reworking their coursework is n't doing their job.Catching these sorts of cheats is n't too difficult either even if you do n't want to start projects from scratch .
Just a matter of properly adjusting the project .
Make a few fundamental changes that make it look different , update as needed , and subtly tweak a few things .
( make a small change to limits etc ) This makes it fresh and new , and is fairly easy to spot a cheat since they will blatantly be meeting subtle goals from the wrong project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The student released the source after the release date, which prevented any of his peers from cheatingPrevented them from cheating this semester.
I'm sure the reason the prof wanted it taken down is so he could easily just copy-n-paste next semester's assignment.
This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy "tweak and resubmit" assignment.
Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester isn't showing any commitment, and certainly isn't staying with the times.
Computer science is in such a continuous state of flux that any prof that isn't consistently reworking their coursework isn't doing their job.Catching these sorts of cheats isn't too difficult either even if you don't want to start projects from scratch.
Just a matter of properly adjusting the project.
Make a few fundamental changes that make it look different, update as needed, and subtly tweak a few things.
(make a small change to limits etc)  This makes it fresh and new, and is fairly easy to spot a cheat since they will blatantly be meeting subtle goals from the wrong project.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319381</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28337607</id>
	<title>I don't get it</title>
	<author>rocity</author>
	<datestamp>1245091380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am a CS major at SJSU, and this is a weird story...I post all the code from my assignment on my google site, and I've n In fact, for an assembly language programming class, we were REQUIRED to create a website and post our code there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a CS major at SJSU , and this is a weird story...I post all the code from my assignment on my google site , and I 've n In fact , for an assembly language programming class , we were REQUIRED to create a website and post our code there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a CS major at SJSU, and this is a weird story...I post all the code from my assignment on my google site, and I've n In fact, for an assembly language programming class, we were REQUIRED to create a website and post our code there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28332271</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245006120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>&gt;Also, you don't seem to have considered that in some courses, each programming assignment builds on the one before.  By posting his assignments, even after the due dates, he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments. </p></div><p>Shame on him for trying to bring his classmates up to speed?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Also , you do n't seem to have considered that in some courses , each programming assignment builds on the one before .
By posting his assignments , even after the due dates , he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments .
Shame on him for trying to bring his classmates up to speed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;Also, you don't seem to have considered that in some courses, each programming assignment builds on the one before.
By posting his assignments, even after the due dates, he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments.
Shame on him for trying to bring his classmates up to speed?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28322513</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Dolohov</author>
	<datestamp>1244888580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>My former boss in the US runs an entire state university's Japanese program, and has done so for 20 years. Her title? "Lecturer." Why? No PhD, just a master's. </i></p><p>Did you happen to attend WVU, by any chance?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My former boss in the US runs an entire state university 's Japanese program , and has done so for 20 years .
Her title ?
" Lecturer. " Why ?
No PhD , just a master 's .
Did you happen to attend WVU , by any chance ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My former boss in the US runs an entire state university's Japanese program, and has done so for 20 years.
Her title?
"Lecturer." Why?
No PhD, just a master's.
Did you happen to attend WVU, by any chance?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28322559</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>clint999</author>
	<datestamp>1244889000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Bad apples stand out in every walk of life.  The good, honest competent people (or at least the ones who aren't egregiously stupid) are almost invisible next to the loud and wrong idiots, who draw attention for being both loud and wrong.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bad apples stand out in every walk of life .
The good , honest competent people ( or at least the ones who are n't egregiously stupid ) are almost invisible next to the loud and wrong idiots , who draw attention for being both loud and wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bad apples stand out in every walk of life.
The good, honest competent people (or at least the ones who aren't egregiously stupid) are almost invisible next to the loud and wrong idiots, who draw attention for being both loud and wrong.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321327</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>93 Escort Wagon</author>
	<datestamp>1244920440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Prevented them from cheating <b>this semester</b>.  I'm sure the reason the prof wanted it taken down is so he could easily just copy-n-paste next semester's assignment.  This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.</p></div><p>Unfortunately, this is not uncommon - I see it somewhat often in our university department. I am not sure it's always laziness, though. There appear to be a significant number of faculty who think teaching is beneath them. Their research is all that matters, and they'll do what they can to minimize the amount of time they have to spend on teaching - or to get out of it altogether.</p><p>Personally I think universities should abolish practices like course buyouts and TAs doing the actual teaching, and strictly require faculty to spend X amount of hours in front of a classroom every year. Faculty who think teaching is a waste of time (and I have heard exactly those words!) should be working in industry, not qualifying for tenure at a state-supported institution.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Prevented them from cheating this semester .
I 'm sure the reason the prof wanted it taken down is so he could easily just copy-n-paste next semester 's assignment .
This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.Unfortunately , this is not uncommon - I see it somewhat often in our university department .
I am not sure it 's always laziness , though .
There appear to be a significant number of faculty who think teaching is beneath them .
Their research is all that matters , and they 'll do what they can to minimize the amount of time they have to spend on teaching - or to get out of it altogether.Personally I think universities should abolish practices like course buyouts and TAs doing the actual teaching , and strictly require faculty to spend X amount of hours in front of a classroom every year .
Faculty who think teaching is a waste of time ( and I have heard exactly those words !
) should be working in industry , not qualifying for tenure at a state-supported institution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Prevented them from cheating this semester.
I'm sure the reason the prof wanted it taken down is so he could easily just copy-n-paste next semester's assignment.
This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.Unfortunately, this is not uncommon - I see it somewhat often in our university department.
I am not sure it's always laziness, though.
There appear to be a significant number of faculty who think teaching is beneath them.
Their research is all that matters, and they'll do what they can to minimize the amount of time they have to spend on teaching - or to get out of it altogether.Personally I think universities should abolish practices like course buyouts and TAs doing the actual teaching, and strictly require faculty to spend X amount of hours in front of a classroom every year.
Faculty who think teaching is a waste of time (and I have heard exactly those words!
) should be working in industry, not qualifying for tenure at a state-supported institution.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319575</id>
	<title>Re:FIRST! And welcome to fraternity file cabinets</title>
	<author>betterunixthanunix</author>
	<datestamp>1244905440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>And by using these file cabinets instead of putting in the effort to actually learn the material, these frat boys cheated their way through college and cheapened the value of your degree.  Nothing ticks me off more these days than people who treat a college degree as a job ticket (I get ticked off by a lot of people), and that is exactly what these frat boys do:  they party for 4 years and get their job ticket, then go out into the market and act like they put in as much effort as someone who spent their time studying and trying to become an expert in their field.  Why colleges tolerate this, when they could rectify the problem after just one year of cracking down on cheating (and improve their reputation as a serious academic institution in the process) remains a mystery to me (except for the simple, "they are afraid of losing students and their tuition dollars," argument).</htmltext>
<tokenext>And by using these file cabinets instead of putting in the effort to actually learn the material , these frat boys cheated their way through college and cheapened the value of your degree .
Nothing ticks me off more these days than people who treat a college degree as a job ticket ( I get ticked off by a lot of people ) , and that is exactly what these frat boys do : they party for 4 years and get their job ticket , then go out into the market and act like they put in as much effort as someone who spent their time studying and trying to become an expert in their field .
Why colleges tolerate this , when they could rectify the problem after just one year of cracking down on cheating ( and improve their reputation as a serious academic institution in the process ) remains a mystery to me ( except for the simple , " they are afraid of losing students and their tuition dollars , " argument ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And by using these file cabinets instead of putting in the effort to actually learn the material, these frat boys cheated their way through college and cheapened the value of your degree.
Nothing ticks me off more these days than people who treat a college degree as a job ticket (I get ticked off by a lot of people), and that is exactly what these frat boys do:  they party for 4 years and get their job ticket, then go out into the market and act like they put in as much effort as someone who spent their time studying and trying to become an expert in their field.
Why colleges tolerate this, when they could rectify the problem after just one year of cracking down on cheating (and improve their reputation as a serious academic institution in the process) remains a mystery to me (except for the simple, "they are afraid of losing students and their tuition dollars," argument).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319409</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321093</id>
	<title>Re:FIRST! And welcome to fraternity file cabinets</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244918700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, as a geezer (40) who is majoring in EE and not in a frat from what I hear they've all been scanned into pdf format and are available at a certain gmail address to which only members have the password.</p><p>I don't really care if they use it one way or another, since I'm in a very strong coop and project based curriculum. It becomes apparent in these areas as to who is clued in and who isn't, and we're allowed to vote people off of project teams if they don't perform.</p><p>It does suck when some assclown memorises a test that just happens to be reused and breaks the curve though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , as a geezer ( 40 ) who is majoring in EE and not in a frat from what I hear they 've all been scanned into pdf format and are available at a certain gmail address to which only members have the password.I do n't really care if they use it one way or another , since I 'm in a very strong coop and project based curriculum .
It becomes apparent in these areas as to who is clued in and who is n't , and we 're allowed to vote people off of project teams if they do n't perform.It does suck when some assclown memorises a test that just happens to be reused and breaks the curve though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, as a geezer (40) who is majoring in EE and not in a frat from what I hear they've all been scanned into pdf format and are available at a certain gmail address to which only members have the password.I don't really care if they use it one way or another, since I'm in a very strong coop and project based curriculum.
It becomes apparent in these areas as to who is clued in and who isn't, and we're allowed to vote people off of project teams if they don't perform.It does suck when some assclown memorises a test that just happens to be reused and breaks the curve though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319409</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321485</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244921700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the teacher accepts late assignments, then someone could still cheat <b>this semester</b>. Imagine getting a late homework submission and it's exactly the same as the one Mr. Check-Out-My-Code posted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the teacher accepts late assignments , then someone could still cheat this semester .
Imagine getting a late homework submission and it 's exactly the same as the one Mr. Check-Out-My-Code posted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the teacher accepts late assignments, then someone could still cheat this semester.
Imagine getting a late homework submission and it's exactly the same as the one Mr. Check-Out-My-Code posted.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319995</id>
	<title>what a waist</title>
	<author>theuhstuf</author>
	<datestamp>1244909880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Self Education is the only way for me!  I spent some time trying to find classes, courses, or degree programs but it was all a waist of time and money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Self Education is the only way for me !
I spent some time trying to find classes , courses , or degree programs but it was all a waist of time and money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Self Education is the only way for me!
I spent some time trying to find classes, courses, or degree programs but it was all a waist of time and money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320917</id>
	<title>Re:another take on restricting distribution</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1244917380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Invalid agreement, made under duress, similar to the EULA's you have pop up when you install proprietary software.  Non binding, in any sane world.  Possibly binding in our totally screwed up legal system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Invalid agreement , made under duress , similar to the EULA 's you have pop up when you install proprietary software .
Non binding , in any sane world .
Possibly binding in our totally screwed up legal system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Invalid agreement, made under duress, similar to the EULA's you have pop up when you install proprietary software.
Non binding, in any sane world.
Possibly binding in our totally screwed up legal system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319629</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28322143</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Japie\_H</author>
	<datestamp>1244884860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>By posting his assignments, even after the due dates, he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments.</i>
<br> <br>
I really don't see anything wring with influencing your felllow students. Learning from each other is as valuable (maybe even more valuable) than learning from a book or teacher.
Assuming that he did not do things the wrong way. But even if he did things the wrong way you could discuss what is wrong about his implementation and why it is wrong.
Those discussions can be very helpful (whether you're explaining or trying to understand why it is wrong)
<br> <br>
I think that the focus should not be on secrecy, it should be on openness. In the end every student is(should) there be there because they want to learn something and they should realize
that by copying the work of someone they are going to get in trouble later on. Students will talk to each other and assignments that change very little will be shared anyway, so you'll might as
well be open about it and motivate the students to do their own work and stimulate them to work together. That way you'll develop the skills to work together; have more fun because you can share
your frustration of not knowing how to handle a certain problem (and finding out that your friends can't either) and you'll learn more because you're enjoying yourself.</htmltext>
<tokenext>By posting his assignments , even after the due dates , he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments .
I really do n't see anything wring with influencing your felllow students .
Learning from each other is as valuable ( maybe even more valuable ) than learning from a book or teacher .
Assuming that he did not do things the wrong way .
But even if he did things the wrong way you could discuss what is wrong about his implementation and why it is wrong .
Those discussions can be very helpful ( whether you 're explaining or trying to understand why it is wrong ) I think that the focus should not be on secrecy , it should be on openness .
In the end every student is ( should ) there be there because they want to learn something and they should realize that by copying the work of someone they are going to get in trouble later on .
Students will talk to each other and assignments that change very little will be shared anyway , so you 'll might as well be open about it and motivate the students to do their own work and stimulate them to work together .
That way you 'll develop the skills to work together ; have more fun because you can share your frustration of not knowing how to handle a certain problem ( and finding out that your friends ca n't either ) and you 'll learn more because you 're enjoying yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By posting his assignments, even after the due dates, he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments.
I really don't see anything wring with influencing your felllow students.
Learning from each other is as valuable (maybe even more valuable) than learning from a book or teacher.
Assuming that he did not do things the wrong way.
But even if he did things the wrong way you could discuss what is wrong about his implementation and why it is wrong.
Those discussions can be very helpful (whether you're explaining or trying to understand why it is wrong)
 
I think that the focus should not be on secrecy, it should be on openness.
In the end every student is(should) there be there because they want to learn something and they should realize
that by copying the work of someone they are going to get in trouble later on.
Students will talk to each other and assignments that change very little will be shared anyway, so you'll might as
well be open about it and motivate the students to do their own work and stimulate them to work together.
That way you'll develop the skills to work together; have more fun because you can share
your frustration of not knowing how to handle a certain problem (and finding out that your friends can't either) and you'll learn more because you're enjoying yourself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321369</id>
	<title>Re:The Professor is an Idiot</title>
	<author>belmolis</author>
	<datestamp>1244920740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I don't believe this. What "course agreement"s are you talking about? In general, there are no "agreements" associated with taking individual courses. If you mean a form that students sign on registering or entering a university, none of the universities with which I am familiar have anything like that.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't believe this .
What " course agreement " s are you talking about ?
In general , there are no " agreements " associated with taking individual courses .
If you mean a form that students sign on registering or entering a university , none of the universities with which I am familiar have anything like that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I don't believe this.
What "course agreement"s are you talking about?
In general, there are no "agreements" associated with taking individual courses.
If you mean a form that students sign on registering or entering a university, none of the universities with which I am familiar have anything like that.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319663</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320893</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Attila the Bun</author>
	<datestamp>1244917260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.</p></div><p>
Do not underestimate the work involved in preparing a new course.  I teach for a few weeks every year, and can easily spend several days preparing a new one-hour lesson.  Even recycled material needs updating and revising, and the preparation time is at least equal to the teaching time.  Think of the time you spend to prepare a presentation at work.  Now imagine spending your whole working day giving presentations, and doing the preparation in the evenings.
</p><p>
Teaching is a tough job, and only those who believe it's important stick at it.  Some teachers are more talented than others, but I've yet to meet a lazy one.  A lazy teacher will quickly move to an easier (and better paying) job.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness .
Do not underestimate the work involved in preparing a new course .
I teach for a few weeks every year , and can easily spend several days preparing a new one-hour lesson .
Even recycled material needs updating and revising , and the preparation time is at least equal to the teaching time .
Think of the time you spend to prepare a presentation at work .
Now imagine spending your whole working day giving presentations , and doing the preparation in the evenings .
Teaching is a tough job , and only those who believe it 's important stick at it .
Some teachers are more talented than others , but I 've yet to meet a lazy one .
A lazy teacher will quickly move to an easier ( and better paying ) job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.
Do not underestimate the work involved in preparing a new course.
I teach for a few weeks every year, and can easily spend several days preparing a new one-hour lesson.
Even recycled material needs updating and revising, and the preparation time is at least equal to the teaching time.
Think of the time you spend to prepare a presentation at work.
Now imagine spending your whole working day giving presentations, and doing the preparation in the evenings.
Teaching is a tough job, and only those who believe it's important stick at it.
Some teachers are more talented than others, but I've yet to meet a lazy one.
A lazy teacher will quickly move to an easier (and better paying) job.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28326017</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244988180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Also, you don't seem to have considered that in some courses, each programming assignment builds on the one before.  By posting his assignments, even after the due dates, he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments. </p></div><p>And maybe that's a good idea?  After an assignment is handed in, isn't there some kind of post mortem?  After the assignments are returned, the students naturally discuss how they did and if one person did remarkably well, others should note it.  Heck, even at the due date, after the assignment is turned in, students naturally ask each other "How did you manage to solve the FOO problem?  I used<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...."</p><p>I'd say learning from an assignment in a class is pretty good, b/c it's, you know, learning</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , you do n't seem to have considered that in some courses , each programming assignment builds on the one before .
By posting his assignments , even after the due dates , he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments .
And maybe that 's a good idea ?
After an assignment is handed in , is n't there some kind of post mortem ?
After the assignments are returned , the students naturally discuss how they did and if one person did remarkably well , others should note it .
Heck , even at the due date , after the assignment is turned in , students naturally ask each other " How did you manage to solve the FOO problem ?
I used .... " I 'd say learning from an assignment in a class is pretty good , b/c it 's , you know , learning</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, you don't seem to have considered that in some courses, each programming assignment builds on the one before.
By posting his assignments, even after the due dates, he may be influencing his fellow students in the follow on assignments.
And maybe that's a good idea?
After an assignment is handed in, isn't there some kind of post mortem?
After the assignments are returned, the students naturally discuss how they did and if one person did remarkably well, others should note it.
Heck, even at the due date, after the assignment is turned in, students naturally ask each other "How did you manage to solve the FOO problem?
I used ...."I'd say learning from an assignment in a class is pretty good, b/c it's, you know, learning
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319603</id>
	<title>Real-world skills</title>
	<author>NotQuiteReal</author>
	<datestamp>1244905680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The irony is that, as a student, copying the work of others is unethical. Once one is a professional, billing for work done, a case could be made that NOT copying is unethical. E.g. billing for a custom implementation of an off-the-shelf solution doesn't seem right*.
<br>
<br>
The lesson from the fraternity story is that they start using the system that works in real life - who you know is often more important that what you know.
<br>
<br>
(* = heh, it would be like a lawyer charging a full fee to draft a letter that he pulled out of his boiler-plate folder, of course many folks don't hold lawyers in high ethical esteem...)</htmltext>
<tokenext>The irony is that , as a student , copying the work of others is unethical .
Once one is a professional , billing for work done , a case could be made that NOT copying is unethical .
E.g. billing for a custom implementation of an off-the-shelf solution does n't seem right * .
The lesson from the fraternity story is that they start using the system that works in real life - who you know is often more important that what you know .
( * = heh , it would be like a lawyer charging a full fee to draft a letter that he pulled out of his boiler-plate folder , of course many folks do n't hold lawyers in high ethical esteem... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The irony is that, as a student, copying the work of others is unethical.
Once one is a professional, billing for work done, a case could be made that NOT copying is unethical.
E.g. billing for a custom implementation of an off-the-shelf solution doesn't seem right*.
The lesson from the fraternity story is that they start using the system that works in real life - who you know is often more important that what you know.
(* = heh, it would be like a lawyer charging a full fee to draft a letter that he pulled out of his boiler-plate folder, of course many folks don't hold lawyers in high ethical esteem...)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319409</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319593</id>
	<title>Re:The Professor is an Idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244905620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Simply put: professors do not own their students' coursework.</p></div><p>
Professors may not own their students' work, but you may want to check your facts.  Many Universities lay claim to the work done by their students in an academic setting. IANAL, but typically the qualifiers for a school to own your work begin to appear when the work you do is done using significant university resources (namely doing work under the guidance of a prof, I know you'll say that many students don't get help from their profs other than the class...but sometimes to some schools this doesn't even matter).  It's not that I necessarily agree with this practice, I don't.  I've been "victimized" by my own university after it laid claim to a group project that my group had been working on for a school contest.  Through a web of legalities the school considered us "students" to be "employees" (albeit employees who paid ~15-20k a year to 'work' at the school) and all employees were required to render IP they had developed in their respective programs to the university.  Our app was fundamentally flawed and incomplete, so we opted not to fight the team of lawyers for something that was broken. The whole experience was rather disheartening.  All these rules we'd "agreed" to were essentially a part of the shrinkwrap rules you agreed to/were bound to by being a part of the university.  The school acted as though this was the modus operandi for a lot of schools, and I couldn't really be sure one way or the other.  I recognize that my experience may have been unique, but I've seen similar stories like this, even on slashdot.<br> <br>
Back to what you were saying, professors probably aren't going to own a student's coursework.  Universities, might, however, like in my case if they've set up a rats nest of rules to capture student IP.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Simply put : professors do not own their students ' coursework .
Professors may not own their students ' work , but you may want to check your facts .
Many Universities lay claim to the work done by their students in an academic setting .
IANAL , but typically the qualifiers for a school to own your work begin to appear when the work you do is done using significant university resources ( namely doing work under the guidance of a prof , I know you 'll say that many students do n't get help from their profs other than the class...but sometimes to some schools this does n't even matter ) .
It 's not that I necessarily agree with this practice , I do n't .
I 've been " victimized " by my own university after it laid claim to a group project that my group had been working on for a school contest .
Through a web of legalities the school considered us " students " to be " employees " ( albeit employees who paid ~ 15-20k a year to 'work ' at the school ) and all employees were required to render IP they had developed in their respective programs to the university .
Our app was fundamentally flawed and incomplete , so we opted not to fight the team of lawyers for something that was broken .
The whole experience was rather disheartening .
All these rules we 'd " agreed " to were essentially a part of the shrinkwrap rules you agreed to/were bound to by being a part of the university .
The school acted as though this was the modus operandi for a lot of schools , and I could n't really be sure one way or the other .
I recognize that my experience may have been unique , but I 've seen similar stories like this , even on slashdot .
Back to what you were saying , professors probably are n't going to own a student 's coursework .
Universities , might , however , like in my case if they 've set up a rats nest of rules to capture student IP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Simply put: professors do not own their students' coursework.
Professors may not own their students' work, but you may want to check your facts.
Many Universities lay claim to the work done by their students in an academic setting.
IANAL, but typically the qualifiers for a school to own your work begin to appear when the work you do is done using significant university resources (namely doing work under the guidance of a prof, I know you'll say that many students don't get help from their profs other than the class...but sometimes to some schools this doesn't even matter).
It's not that I necessarily agree with this practice, I don't.
I've been "victimized" by my own university after it laid claim to a group project that my group had been working on for a school contest.
Through a web of legalities the school considered us "students" to be "employees" (albeit employees who paid ~15-20k a year to 'work' at the school) and all employees were required to render IP they had developed in their respective programs to the university.
Our app was fundamentally flawed and incomplete, so we opted not to fight the team of lawyers for something that was broken.
The whole experience was rather disheartening.
All these rules we'd "agreed" to were essentially a part of the shrinkwrap rules you agreed to/were bound to by being a part of the university.
The school acted as though this was the modus operandi for a lot of schools, and I couldn't really be sure one way or the other.
I recognize that my experience may have been unique, but I've seen similar stories like this, even on slashdot.
Back to what you were saying, professors probably aren't going to own a student's coursework.
Universities, might, however, like in my case if they've set up a rats nest of rules to capture student IP.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319451</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</id>
	<title>CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244907960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question. Cory Doctorow, if I am to believe <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory\_doctorow" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">what I have read (blessed and purified by The Man Himself)</a> [wikipedia.org], doesn't have so much as a bachelor's. The fact that he has been allowed into the front of university classrooms does not make him a "prof." That being said, we can't really hold that mistake against him as he does have all the education of a glass of water.

</p><p>Me, I've been teaching university in the US and Japan for 6 years. I, too, am not a "prof." I was pretty stoked when I started this job in April and moved up from "Senior Lecturer" to "Assistant Professor."  My former boss in the US runs an entire state university's Japanese program, and has done so for 20 years. Her title? "Lecturer." Why? No PhD, just a master's.

</p><p>This right here is the core reason I <i> <b>loathe</b></i>  Cory Doctorow. He constantly blows himself up to be things he clearly is not. The moment my opinion of him turned for good was the moment in the talk he gave to Microsoft, wherein he described himself as a "half-lawyer." My buddy who just finished law school but hasn't found out if he passed the bar yet is a "half-lawyer." Some Drew Carey lookalike who writes about as well as you would expect from someone who graduated from a "free school," and who likes to <i>pontificate <b>endlessly</b> </i> about legal issues is <b>not.</b>

</p><p>I would post this on Boing Boing, but I was banned for posting something similar.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question .
Cory Doctorow , if I am to believe what I have read ( blessed and purified by The Man Himself ) [ wikipedia.org ] , does n't have so much as a bachelor 's .
The fact that he has been allowed into the front of university classrooms does not make him a " prof. " That being said , we ca n't really hold that mistake against him as he does have all the education of a glass of water .
Me , I 've been teaching university in the US and Japan for 6 years .
I , too , am not a " prof. " I was pretty stoked when I started this job in April and moved up from " Senior Lecturer " to " Assistant Professor .
" My former boss in the US runs an entire state university 's Japanese program , and has done so for 20 years .
Her title ?
" Lecturer. " Why ?
No PhD , just a master 's .
This right here is the core reason I loathe Cory Doctorow .
He constantly blows himself up to be things he clearly is not .
The moment my opinion of him turned for good was the moment in the talk he gave to Microsoft , wherein he described himself as a " half-lawyer .
" My buddy who just finished law school but has n't found out if he passed the bar yet is a " half-lawyer .
" Some Drew Carey lookalike who writes about as well as you would expect from someone who graduated from a " free school , " and who likes to pontificate endlessly about legal issues is not .
I would post this on Boing Boing , but I was banned for posting something similar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question.
Cory Doctorow, if I am to believe what I have read (blessed and purified by The Man Himself) [wikipedia.org], doesn't have so much as a bachelor's.
The fact that he has been allowed into the front of university classrooms does not make him a "prof." That being said, we can't really hold that mistake against him as he does have all the education of a glass of water.
Me, I've been teaching university in the US and Japan for 6 years.
I, too, am not a "prof." I was pretty stoked when I started this job in April and moved up from "Senior Lecturer" to "Assistant Professor.
"  My former boss in the US runs an entire state university's Japanese program, and has done so for 20 years.
Her title?
"Lecturer." Why?
No PhD, just a master's.
This right here is the core reason I  loathe  Cory Doctorow.
He constantly blows himself up to be things he clearly is not.
The moment my opinion of him turned for good was the moment in the talk he gave to Microsoft, wherein he described himself as a "half-lawyer.
" My buddy who just finished law school but hasn't found out if he passed the bar yet is a "half-lawyer.
" Some Drew Carey lookalike who writes about as well as you would expect from someone who graduated from a "free school," and who likes to pontificate endlessly  about legal issues is not.
I would post this on Boing Boing, but I was banned for posting something similar.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320501</id>
	<title>who cares?</title>
	<author>jipn4</author>
	<datestamp>1244914020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i> fall into the lazy trap of wanting to assign rotework that can be endlessly recycled as work for new students</i></p><p>Actually, assigning "rotework" is not much effort; coming up with meaningful assignments is hard.</p><p><i>a model that fails when the students treat their work as useful in and of itself and therefore worthy of making public for their peers and other interested parties who find them through search results, links, etc.</i></p><p>Who cares?  Students have plenty of other resources to cheat on their homework if they want to.  If they don't actually do the work, they won't learn and they'll fail their final exam.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>fall into the lazy trap of wanting to assign rotework that can be endlessly recycled as work for new studentsActually , assigning " rotework " is not much effort ; coming up with meaningful assignments is hard.a model that fails when the students treat their work as useful in and of itself and therefore worthy of making public for their peers and other interested parties who find them through search results , links , etc.Who cares ?
Students have plenty of other resources to cheat on their homework if they want to .
If they do n't actually do the work , they wo n't learn and they 'll fail their final exam .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> fall into the lazy trap of wanting to assign rotework that can be endlessly recycled as work for new studentsActually, assigning "rotework" is not much effort; coming up with meaningful assignments is hard.a model that fails when the students treat their work as useful in and of itself and therefore worthy of making public for their peers and other interested parties who find them through search results, links, etc.Who cares?
Students have plenty of other resources to cheat on their homework if they want to.
If they don't actually do the work, they won't learn and they'll fail their final exam.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319471</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>think\_nix</author>
	<datestamp>1244904420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The only reason that comes to mind for the teacher wanting the code to be taken down is because he was going to use the same assignments next year (Which is fairly common among teachers).  Regardless, in this case it's his code and he has the right to do whatever he wants with it.</p><p>Unfortunately schools have become more about preparing you for standardized tests and such rather than giving you a real education with the information you actually will use in life (Which is why teachers always have to cover their asses).  What Brady was trying to do was help his peers and kudos to him for doing so.</p></div><p>+1 to that . I think (some not all ) educators need to get off there high horses and start being more innovative. Instead of always re-running assignment X for the past 5 years.</p><p>I remember a certain "educator" I had while I was going back to school in 2001. If I didnt code the way he saw fit (which in other terms) a way he could understand he would would fail me , code comments or no code comments. In the end it went up in front of the school Directors , and I had my current employer at the time backing me with some other clients that I was coding for , because otherwise I would have failed out. Luckily the board decided in my favor .</p><p>These certain types of educators that dont understand the depths of the own things they are "teaching" should either A.) be more innovative and come to terms with newer techs and their way of teaching or teaching style. B.) count their losses stfu and find a new line of work.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only reason that comes to mind for the teacher wanting the code to be taken down is because he was going to use the same assignments next year ( Which is fairly common among teachers ) .
Regardless , in this case it 's his code and he has the right to do whatever he wants with it.Unfortunately schools have become more about preparing you for standardized tests and such rather than giving you a real education with the information you actually will use in life ( Which is why teachers always have to cover their asses ) .
What Brady was trying to do was help his peers and kudos to him for doing so. + 1 to that .
I think ( some not all ) educators need to get off there high horses and start being more innovative .
Instead of always re-running assignment X for the past 5 years.I remember a certain " educator " I had while I was going back to school in 2001 .
If I didnt code the way he saw fit ( which in other terms ) a way he could understand he would would fail me , code comments or no code comments .
In the end it went up in front of the school Directors , and I had my current employer at the time backing me with some other clients that I was coding for , because otherwise I would have failed out .
Luckily the board decided in my favor .These certain types of educators that dont understand the depths of the own things they are " teaching " should either A .
) be more innovative and come to terms with newer techs and their way of teaching or teaching style .
B. ) count their losses stfu and find a new line of work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only reason that comes to mind for the teacher wanting the code to be taken down is because he was going to use the same assignments next year (Which is fairly common among teachers).
Regardless, in this case it's his code and he has the right to do whatever he wants with it.Unfortunately schools have become more about preparing you for standardized tests and such rather than giving you a real education with the information you actually will use in life (Which is why teachers always have to cover their asses).
What Brady was trying to do was help his peers and kudos to him for doing so.+1 to that .
I think (some not all ) educators need to get off there high horses and start being more innovative.
Instead of always re-running assignment X for the past 5 years.I remember a certain "educator" I had while I was going back to school in 2001.
If I didnt code the way he saw fit (which in other terms) a way he could understand he would would fail me , code comments or no code comments.
In the end it went up in front of the school Directors , and I had my current employer at the time backing me with some other clients that I was coding for , because otherwise I would have failed out.
Luckily the board decided in my favor .These certain types of educators that dont understand the depths of the own things they are "teaching" should either A.
) be more innovative and come to terms with newer techs and their way of teaching or teaching style.
B.) count their losses stfu and find a new line of work.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319381</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320015</id>
	<title>Buidling on other's work</title>
	<author>plopez</author>
	<datestamp>1244910120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The either research method builds on others work. As long as you give proper citation and add something original you aren't cheating.</p><p>If it is something like a bubble sort you can have them run a bubble sort on data for a web page they build for a bogus company they are "working for".</p><p>Then give them data sets of various sizes to show how poorly it scales.</p><p>Then have them do an quick and dirty algorithm analysis so that they understand *why* it doesn't scale and *why* you shouldn't use it for large data sets. Have them show all their handwritten work. That sort of assignment is more instructive than "implement a bubble sort", sincve so many sorting algorithms are already canned.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The either research method builds on others work .
As long as you give proper citation and add something original you are n't cheating.If it is something like a bubble sort you can have them run a bubble sort on data for a web page they build for a bogus company they are " working for " .Then give them data sets of various sizes to show how poorly it scales.Then have them do an quick and dirty algorithm analysis so that they understand * why * it does n't scale and * why * you should n't use it for large data sets .
Have them show all their handwritten work .
That sort of assignment is more instructive than " implement a bubble sort " , sincve so many sorting algorithms are already canned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The either research method builds on others work.
As long as you give proper citation and add something original you aren't cheating.If it is something like a bubble sort you can have them run a bubble sort on data for a web page they build for a bogus company they are "working for".Then give them data sets of various sizes to show how poorly it scales.Then have them do an quick and dirty algorithm analysis so that they understand *why* it doesn't scale and *why* you shouldn't use it for large data sets.
Have them show all their handwritten work.
That sort of assignment is more instructive than "implement a bubble sort", sincve so many sorting algorithms are already canned.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28325693</id>
	<title>Re:The Professor is an Idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244981400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Through a web of legalities the school considered us "students" to be "employees"</p></div><p>If students are "employees", does that mean you call OSHA if a student gets injured in a lab accident?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Through a web of legalities the school considered us " students " to be " employees " If students are " employees " , does that mean you call OSHA if a student gets injured in a lab accident ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Through a web of legalities the school considered us "students" to be "employees"If students are "employees", does that mean you call OSHA if a student gets injured in a lab accident?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319593</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319715</id>
	<title>2 cents</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244907060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it is perfectly fine to share your code after the assignment is due. However, it is considered to be cheating when you use someone's code, and it is prosecuted at my school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it is perfectly fine to share your code after the assignment is due .
However , it is considered to be cheating when you use someone 's code , and it is prosecuted at my school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it is perfectly fine to share your code after the assignment is due.
However, it is considered to be cheating when you use someone's code, and it is prosecuted at my school.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320005</id>
	<title>Released code from where?!</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1244910000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>THe RSS feed link in firefox "live bookmark" reads: "Student who released code from ass...." <p>
I had to debate whether I wanted to click on it, for fear of a massive goatse prank...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>THe RSS feed link in firefox " live bookmark " reads : " Student who released code from ass.... " I had to debate whether I wanted to click on it , for fear of a massive goatse prank.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>THe RSS feed link in firefox "live bookmark" reads: "Student who released code from ass...." 
I had to debate whether I wanted to click on it, for fear of a massive goatse prank...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319923</id>
	<title>I'm sorry</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244908980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You lost me at "Quoting Cory Doctorow..."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You lost me at " Quoting Cory Doctorow... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You lost me at "Quoting Cory Doctorow..."</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28322035</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>harmlessdrudge</author>
	<datestamp>1244883780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>See <a href="http://wombatdiet.net/2008/09/10/its-the-author-stupid/" title="wombatdiet.net" rel="nofollow">http://wombatdiet.net/2008/09/10/its-the-author-stupid/</a> [wombatdiet.net] for another comment on Doctorow's self-importance.</htmltext>
<tokenext>See http : //wombatdiet.net/2008/09/10/its-the-author-stupid/ [ wombatdiet.net ] for another comment on Doctorow 's self-importance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See http://wombatdiet.net/2008/09/10/its-the-author-stupid/ [wombatdiet.net] for another comment on Doctorow's self-importance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321139</id>
	<title>Publishing to a Higher Standard</title>
	<author>Nom du Keyboard</author>
	<datestamp>1244919060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would think that someone planning to release their code afterwards would write better code and comment it to a higher standard so that the release wouldn't embarrass them in the process.  And that other students who felt their own solution was superior would post their own code provoking competition and robust debate.
<br> <br>
And how can this be a bad thing? You may learn ways of solving a problem that you'd never thought of before.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would think that someone planning to release their code afterwards would write better code and comment it to a higher standard so that the release would n't embarrass them in the process .
And that other students who felt their own solution was superior would post their own code provoking competition and robust debate .
And how can this be a bad thing ?
You may learn ways of solving a problem that you 'd never thought of before .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would think that someone planning to release their code afterwards would write better code and comment it to a higher standard so that the release wouldn't embarrass them in the process.
And that other students who felt their own solution was superior would post their own code provoking competition and robust debate.
And how can this be a bad thing?
You may learn ways of solving a problem that you'd never thought of before.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28334057</id>
	<title>Make an Assignment Open source</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245074340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and see what happens.  Put the assignment on the school's network so no one out side sees it and have the class collaborate on it.</p><p>I think that the teacher felt threatened that this student is posting something better then theirs.  Many professors want to be at the top of the food chain and this would be one of those threats.  the movie DOA was one I believe where a student's work was a stroke of genius.</p><p>The professor needs to come up with newer material every year since technology is always changing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and see what happens .
Put the assignment on the school 's network so no one out side sees it and have the class collaborate on it.I think that the teacher felt threatened that this student is posting something better then theirs .
Many professors want to be at the top of the food chain and this would be one of those threats .
the movie DOA was one I believe where a student 's work was a stroke of genius.The professor needs to come up with newer material every year since technology is always changing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and see what happens.
Put the assignment on the school's network so no one out side sees it and have the class collaborate on it.I think that the teacher felt threatened that this student is posting something better then theirs.
Many professors want to be at the top of the food chain and this would be one of those threats.
the movie DOA was one I believe where a student's work was a stroke of genius.The professor needs to come up with newer material every year since technology is always changing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28322833</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>bigbigbison</author>
	<datestamp>1244891220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I"m a grad student at a university that has assistant professors, associate professors, and professors.  There is a difference. An assistant professor who calls themself a plain old professor would be like an assistant manager calling themself a manager.  If a full professor caught an assistant professor claiming to be a professor there could be quite a fuss.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I " m a grad student at a university that has assistant professors , associate professors , and professors .
There is a difference .
An assistant professor who calls themself a plain old professor would be like an assistant manager calling themself a manager .
If a full professor caught an assistant professor claiming to be a professor there could be quite a fuss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I"m a grad student at a university that has assistant professors, associate professors, and professors.
There is a difference.
An assistant professor who calls themself a plain old professor would be like an assistant manager calling themself a manager.
If a full professor caught an assistant professor claiming to be a professor there could be quite a fuss.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320459</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320375</id>
	<title>A message for the teacher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244913060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A message for the teacher: Boo fucking hoo. You're not paid to sit on your arse, if you are repeating tests year to year then the students will cheat, internet or no internet. You're not only abrogating responsibility, you are interfering with a students right to his works. That the author retains copyright is so well established as to make this a clear violation of rights. You are a pathetic leech and should be purged from academia forever.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A message for the teacher : Boo fucking hoo .
You 're not paid to sit on your arse , if you are repeating tests year to year then the students will cheat , internet or no internet .
You 're not only abrogating responsibility , you are interfering with a students right to his works .
That the author retains copyright is so well established as to make this a clear violation of rights .
You are a pathetic leech and should be purged from academia forever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A message for the teacher: Boo fucking hoo.
You're not paid to sit on your arse, if you are repeating tests year to year then the students will cheat, internet or no internet.
You're not only abrogating responsibility, you are interfering with a students right to his works.
That the author retains copyright is so well established as to make this a clear violation of rights.
You are a pathetic leech and should be purged from academia forever.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319821</id>
	<title>Re:Real-world skills</title>
	<author>RyoShin</author>
	<datestamp>1244908260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The argument is that these files, referred to as "cribs", are intended for studying, not copying.  They can give real-test examples to understand better what to expect on future tests from a certain professor or class; even more important, they can show how a professor might grade, so you know whether to focus on showing your work or getting the answer.  This is doubly helpful in liberal arts classes, where you have a lot of short-essay tests and so need to know what kind of information they're looking for.</p><p>To go about it another way, do you recall your school math books? Undoubtedly, they always contain an answer list in the back, but only of the even questions.  So a lazy teacher just assigns the odd questions; a naive teacher assigns even as well as odd.  Both of these teachers then grade only on the answer, and not on the work.  In a proper setup, there would be less questions, but work should be show, and so these answers would be useless except for checking that you've done the problem right.  In the same manner, a proper college class setup wouldn't reuse the same question/problem over and over.</p><p>Do people use these to cheat on assignments (and sometimes tests and quizzes)? Certainly, and I'm guilty of it myself; my university had a professor who usually only taught one class, Statistics and Probability, that was regarded by everyone as a joke.  It was always the same question (or some numbers were changed) and the professor himself didn't even understand the material.  After the third week the majority of us were lost, and his general practice is that after everyone starts failing tests (and they always do) he starts making them take-home, and so we work in groups and use the cribs to complete them.</p><p>As a fraternity member, I've seen cribs used both ways.  There is the more severe, odd case where someone will sneak a crib into a test/quiz for cheating, but that's rare.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The argument is that these files , referred to as " cribs " , are intended for studying , not copying .
They can give real-test examples to understand better what to expect on future tests from a certain professor or class ; even more important , they can show how a professor might grade , so you know whether to focus on showing your work or getting the answer .
This is doubly helpful in liberal arts classes , where you have a lot of short-essay tests and so need to know what kind of information they 're looking for.To go about it another way , do you recall your school math books ?
Undoubtedly , they always contain an answer list in the back , but only of the even questions .
So a lazy teacher just assigns the odd questions ; a naive teacher assigns even as well as odd .
Both of these teachers then grade only on the answer , and not on the work .
In a proper setup , there would be less questions , but work should be show , and so these answers would be useless except for checking that you 've done the problem right .
In the same manner , a proper college class setup would n't reuse the same question/problem over and over.Do people use these to cheat on assignments ( and sometimes tests and quizzes ) ?
Certainly , and I 'm guilty of it myself ; my university had a professor who usually only taught one class , Statistics and Probability , that was regarded by everyone as a joke .
It was always the same question ( or some numbers were changed ) and the professor himself did n't even understand the material .
After the third week the majority of us were lost , and his general practice is that after everyone starts failing tests ( and they always do ) he starts making them take-home , and so we work in groups and use the cribs to complete them.As a fraternity member , I 've seen cribs used both ways .
There is the more severe , odd case where someone will sneak a crib into a test/quiz for cheating , but that 's rare .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The argument is that these files, referred to as "cribs", are intended for studying, not copying.
They can give real-test examples to understand better what to expect on future tests from a certain professor or class; even more important, they can show how a professor might grade, so you know whether to focus on showing your work or getting the answer.
This is doubly helpful in liberal arts classes, where you have a lot of short-essay tests and so need to know what kind of information they're looking for.To go about it another way, do you recall your school math books?
Undoubtedly, they always contain an answer list in the back, but only of the even questions.
So a lazy teacher just assigns the odd questions; a naive teacher assigns even as well as odd.
Both of these teachers then grade only on the answer, and not on the work.
In a proper setup, there would be less questions, but work should be show, and so these answers would be useless except for checking that you've done the problem right.
In the same manner, a proper college class setup wouldn't reuse the same question/problem over and over.Do people use these to cheat on assignments (and sometimes tests and quizzes)?
Certainly, and I'm guilty of it myself; my university had a professor who usually only taught one class, Statistics and Probability, that was regarded by everyone as a joke.
It was always the same question (or some numbers were changed) and the professor himself didn't even understand the material.
After the third week the majority of us were lost, and his general practice is that after everyone starts failing tests (and they always do) he starts making them take-home, and so we work in groups and use the cribs to complete them.As a fraternity member, I've seen cribs used both ways.
There is the more severe, odd case where someone will sneak a crib into a test/quiz for cheating, but that's rare.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319603</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28322599</id>
	<title>Re:The Professor is an Idiot</title>
	<author>MattskEE</author>
	<datestamp>1244889300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They were probably bluffing.</p><p>As a grad student researcher, you *are* an employee of the university, and a portion of your paycheck happens to pay your tuition.  It's standard practice at just about every university to have such student researchers sign an intellectual property agreement which divides up who owns how much of students' work.  I also had to sign one of these when I worked in a campus research lab as an undergrad.</p><p>The university could probably make a case for partial ownership of your work, on the basis that it was performed in part with university property and university consulting (professor).  But there is no way they could make a case for owning all of your work unless all of you signed agreements stating that.</p><p>I think your uni just had some assholes who try to make sure that the university owns as much IP as possible, and bullies it out of students, so that every now and then they'll own something valuable and make a bit of cash from licensing it.</p><p>I think your school just had some assholes</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They were probably bluffing.As a grad student researcher , you * are * an employee of the university , and a portion of your paycheck happens to pay your tuition .
It 's standard practice at just about every university to have such student researchers sign an intellectual property agreement which divides up who owns how much of students ' work .
I also had to sign one of these when I worked in a campus research lab as an undergrad.The university could probably make a case for partial ownership of your work , on the basis that it was performed in part with university property and university consulting ( professor ) .
But there is no way they could make a case for owning all of your work unless all of you signed agreements stating that.I think your uni just had some assholes who try to make sure that the university owns as much IP as possible , and bullies it out of students , so that every now and then they 'll own something valuable and make a bit of cash from licensing it.I think your school just had some assholes</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They were probably bluffing.As a grad student researcher, you *are* an employee of the university, and a portion of your paycheck happens to pay your tuition.
It's standard practice at just about every university to have such student researchers sign an intellectual property agreement which divides up who owns how much of students' work.
I also had to sign one of these when I worked in a campus research lab as an undergrad.The university could probably make a case for partial ownership of your work, on the basis that it was performed in part with university property and university consulting (professor).
But there is no way they could make a case for owning all of your work unless all of you signed agreements stating that.I think your uni just had some assholes who try to make sure that the university owns as much IP as possible, and bullies it out of students, so that every now and then they'll own something valuable and make a bit of cash from licensing it.I think your school just had some assholes</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319593</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28323763</id>
	<title>Same thing happened to me...but I lost</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244901300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Back when I was a first year student I shared my code for my final assignment with a friend of a friend who was thinking of taking the subject the next year. I sent him a zip with the criteria document and my solution so he could have a tinker around with the language (we were learning DrScheme). All of this happened at the end of the semester after the final assessment.</p><p>Then, this guy logged in to the assignment submission service with an old session id from before the due date (about 2 months ago) which hadn't expired and submitted a near copy-paste of my assignment. The assignment showed up (along with a few others from people using the same exploit) and the tutors marked them, thinking it must just be a weird bug. That's it, no investigation into how it happened, just treated them as submitted on-time even though they didn't show up until after all the marks were finalised.</p><p>Upon the release of results I was called in to an interview about plagiarism. I brought in chat logs, and the friend who was the link between us to back up my story and laid the whole mess in front of them.<br>Because I shared my code after the course assessment was completed, I was found guilty of academic dishonesty. But I was allowed to keep my original marks on the course, my punishment being a record kept on my permanent file of the guilty outcome.</p><p>As far as I could tell the other guy received the same punishment as me as well as a 50\% mark reduction...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Back when I was a first year student I shared my code for my final assignment with a friend of a friend who was thinking of taking the subject the next year .
I sent him a zip with the criteria document and my solution so he could have a tinker around with the language ( we were learning DrScheme ) .
All of this happened at the end of the semester after the final assessment.Then , this guy logged in to the assignment submission service with an old session id from before the due date ( about 2 months ago ) which had n't expired and submitted a near copy-paste of my assignment .
The assignment showed up ( along with a few others from people using the same exploit ) and the tutors marked them , thinking it must just be a weird bug .
That 's it , no investigation into how it happened , just treated them as submitted on-time even though they did n't show up until after all the marks were finalised.Upon the release of results I was called in to an interview about plagiarism .
I brought in chat logs , and the friend who was the link between us to back up my story and laid the whole mess in front of them.Because I shared my code after the course assessment was completed , I was found guilty of academic dishonesty .
But I was allowed to keep my original marks on the course , my punishment being a record kept on my permanent file of the guilty outcome.As far as I could tell the other guy received the same punishment as me as well as a 50 \ % mark reduction.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back when I was a first year student I shared my code for my final assignment with a friend of a friend who was thinking of taking the subject the next year.
I sent him a zip with the criteria document and my solution so he could have a tinker around with the language (we were learning DrScheme).
All of this happened at the end of the semester after the final assessment.Then, this guy logged in to the assignment submission service with an old session id from before the due date (about 2 months ago) which hadn't expired and submitted a near copy-paste of my assignment.
The assignment showed up (along with a few others from people using the same exploit) and the tutors marked them, thinking it must just be a weird bug.
That's it, no investigation into how it happened, just treated them as submitted on-time even though they didn't show up until after all the marks were finalised.Upon the release of results I was called in to an interview about plagiarism.
I brought in chat logs, and the friend who was the link between us to back up my story and laid the whole mess in front of them.Because I shared my code after the course assessment was completed, I was found guilty of academic dishonesty.
But I was allowed to keep my original marks on the course, my punishment being a record kept on my permanent file of the guilty outcome.As far as I could tell the other guy received the same punishment as me as well as a 50\% mark reduction...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319447</id>
	<title>How to make assignments not recycled?</title>
	<author>Mike1024</author>
	<datestamp>1244904180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Profs &#226;" including me, at times &#226;" fall into the lazy trap of wanting to assign rotework that can be endlessly recycled as work for new students</p></div><p>For a first year course entitled "data structures and algorithsm" isn't this kind of unavoidable?</p><p>I mean, consider <a href="http://projects.kyle-brady.com/svn/listing.php?repname=sjsuProjects&amp;path=\%2Fcs146\%2F&amp;rev=0" title="kyle-brady.com">some of the projects on this student's website</a> [kyle-brady.com]; things like sparse matricies, longest common substring, recursively solving an occupancy grid map, and so on.</p><p>How much variety can you put into an assignment to implement sparse matricies?</p><p>Of course, even without this student posting his assignments online, students could still google the problems and probably find working solutions, so taking down this one student's assignments isn't going to stop those who feel so inclined from just copying implementations they find through Google, so I'm not sure the teacher would have achieved much even if he had got this stuff taken down.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Profs   " including me , at times   " fall into the lazy trap of wanting to assign rotework that can be endlessly recycled as work for new studentsFor a first year course entitled " data structures and algorithsm " is n't this kind of unavoidable ? I mean , consider some of the projects on this student 's website [ kyle-brady.com ] ; things like sparse matricies , longest common substring , recursively solving an occupancy grid map , and so on.How much variety can you put into an assignment to implement sparse matricies ? Of course , even without this student posting his assignments online , students could still google the problems and probably find working solutions , so taking down this one student 's assignments is n't going to stop those who feel so inclined from just copying implementations they find through Google , so I 'm not sure the teacher would have achieved much even if he had got this stuff taken down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Profs â" including me, at times â" fall into the lazy trap of wanting to assign rotework that can be endlessly recycled as work for new studentsFor a first year course entitled "data structures and algorithsm" isn't this kind of unavoidable?I mean, consider some of the projects on this student's website [kyle-brady.com]; things like sparse matricies, longest common substring, recursively solving an occupancy grid map, and so on.How much variety can you put into an assignment to implement sparse matricies?Of course, even without this student posting his assignments online, students could still google the problems and probably find working solutions, so taking down this one student's assignments isn't going to stop those who feel so inclined from just copying implementations they find through Google, so I'm not sure the teacher would have achieved much even if he had got this stuff taken down.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319507</id>
	<title>Amazing</title>
	<author>hansraj</author>
	<datestamp>1244904720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Someday I hope to be a professor, teaching my own classes. The one thing I would like my students to do is respect me as someone who contributes strongly to their development as a person and as a professional. It surprises me that the teacher in question would rather claim idiotic copyright policies just to be able to avoid having to come up with new assignments. I can not think of any purpose this would achieve other than helping him be a lazy ass.</p><p>Even if there was a valid reason for him to ask the student to remove the code, I would expect a teacher to keep the student's intent in mind and try to be as accomodating as possible; clearly the student is taking his homework seriously enough and that is already a good thing that should be encouraged as much as possible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Someday I hope to be a professor , teaching my own classes .
The one thing I would like my students to do is respect me as someone who contributes strongly to their development as a person and as a professional .
It surprises me that the teacher in question would rather claim idiotic copyright policies just to be able to avoid having to come up with new assignments .
I can not think of any purpose this would achieve other than helping him be a lazy ass.Even if there was a valid reason for him to ask the student to remove the code , I would expect a teacher to keep the student 's intent in mind and try to be as accomodating as possible ; clearly the student is taking his homework seriously enough and that is already a good thing that should be encouraged as much as possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Someday I hope to be a professor, teaching my own classes.
The one thing I would like my students to do is respect me as someone who contributes strongly to their development as a person and as a professional.
It surprises me that the teacher in question would rather claim idiotic copyright policies just to be able to avoid having to come up with new assignments.
I can not think of any purpose this would achieve other than helping him be a lazy ass.Even if there was a valid reason for him to ask the student to remove the code, I would expect a teacher to keep the student's intent in mind and try to be as accomodating as possible; clearly the student is taking his homework seriously enough and that is already a good thing that should be encouraged as much as possible.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320459</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Daniel Dvorkin</author>
	<datestamp>1244913660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question.</i></p><p>No.  A professor is someone who is given the title by the institution, period.  Most universities won't do this without a PhD or equivalent degree, true, but someone who has been given the title is properly referred to by the title.  And if your job title is now "Assistant Professor," you are in fact now a "prof."  I'm no bigger a Cory Doctorow fan than you are, but if he has been given a job title which includes the word "professor" by an accredited institution of higher learning (I have no idea of this is so) then he is too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question.No .
A professor is someone who is given the title by the institution , period .
Most universities wo n't do this without a PhD or equivalent degree , true , but someone who has been given the title is properly referred to by the title .
And if your job title is now " Assistant Professor , " you are in fact now a " prof. " I 'm no bigger a Cory Doctorow fan than you are , but if he has been given a job title which includes the word " professor " by an accredited institution of higher learning ( I have no idea of this is so ) then he is too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A professor is someone with a PhD who is tenured at the university in question.No.
A professor is someone who is given the title by the institution, period.
Most universities won't do this without a PhD or equivalent degree, true, but someone who has been given the title is properly referred to by the title.
And if your job title is now "Assistant Professor," you are in fact now a "prof."  I'm no bigger a Cory Doctorow fan than you are, but if he has been given a job title which includes the word "professor" by an accredited institution of higher learning (I have no idea of this is so) then he is too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319437</id>
	<title>and the dept head said</title>
	<author>legirons</author>
	<datestamp>1244904000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And threatening to fail a student for reasons other than poor performance in the course is somehow not an "ethical violation"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And threatening to fail a student for reasons other than poor performance in the course is somehow not an " ethical violation " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And threatening to fail a student for reasons other than poor performance in the course is somehow not an "ethical violation"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320987</id>
	<title>Careful, he might use his psycho crusher</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244917800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had M. Beeson for my Windows Programming (i.e. MFC) class when I was a student there. During my time in his class, I got B+ and A grades across the board for every test and assignment, including an A+ on the weighted final. However, I missed one of the homework assignments because I simply didn't have time to do it (was taking a full course load and part-time job). He had/has a policy of automatically failing anyone with a missing grade. Now given my grades in particular, I could done something as trivial as handing in a blank sheet of paper to get an F for the assignment, and still walked away with an A- for the class. In fact, I would have done exactly that, except he had contacted me to inform me of his intentions, which was to make an exception (to failing the class) for me due to my otherwise excellent performance. In other words, I wouldn't have to pay a visit to his office to hand in a blank sheet. Reasonable guy, I thought. So my transcript for the semester came back with an A- for that class. No harm no foul.</p><p>Fast forward a month or so into summer. I receive a letter from SJSU's administrative office. What is inside but a form for "Notice of Letter Grade Change" or some such. Beeson had retroactively changed my grade from an A- to a C, and too late for me to do anything to remedy it (like handing in a blank sheet). That was the M. Beeson psycho crusher, I assume.</p><p>When I was taking his class, my opinion of Beeson was that he was a cynical but otherwise ok guy (nothing wrong with a healthy amount of cynicism). After the grade change that he pulled on me, I was pretty sure that he was an asshole. This story seems to confirm it. Unfortunately, most of the senior CS staff at SJSU are dicks. Strangely, the math profs aren't as bad, and several are actually pretty cool.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had M. Beeson for my Windows Programming ( i.e .
MFC ) class when I was a student there .
During my time in his class , I got B + and A grades across the board for every test and assignment , including an A + on the weighted final .
However , I missed one of the homework assignments because I simply did n't have time to do it ( was taking a full course load and part-time job ) .
He had/has a policy of automatically failing anyone with a missing grade .
Now given my grades in particular , I could done something as trivial as handing in a blank sheet of paper to get an F for the assignment , and still walked away with an A- for the class .
In fact , I would have done exactly that , except he had contacted me to inform me of his intentions , which was to make an exception ( to failing the class ) for me due to my otherwise excellent performance .
In other words , I would n't have to pay a visit to his office to hand in a blank sheet .
Reasonable guy , I thought .
So my transcript for the semester came back with an A- for that class .
No harm no foul.Fast forward a month or so into summer .
I receive a letter from SJSU 's administrative office .
What is inside but a form for " Notice of Letter Grade Change " or some such .
Beeson had retroactively changed my grade from an A- to a C , and too late for me to do anything to remedy it ( like handing in a blank sheet ) .
That was the M. Beeson psycho crusher , I assume.When I was taking his class , my opinion of Beeson was that he was a cynical but otherwise ok guy ( nothing wrong with a healthy amount of cynicism ) .
After the grade change that he pulled on me , I was pretty sure that he was an asshole .
This story seems to confirm it .
Unfortunately , most of the senior CS staff at SJSU are dicks .
Strangely , the math profs are n't as bad , and several are actually pretty cool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had M. Beeson for my Windows Programming (i.e.
MFC) class when I was a student there.
During my time in his class, I got B+ and A grades across the board for every test and assignment, including an A+ on the weighted final.
However, I missed one of the homework assignments because I simply didn't have time to do it (was taking a full course load and part-time job).
He had/has a policy of automatically failing anyone with a missing grade.
Now given my grades in particular, I could done something as trivial as handing in a blank sheet of paper to get an F for the assignment, and still walked away with an A- for the class.
In fact, I would have done exactly that, except he had contacted me to inform me of his intentions, which was to make an exception (to failing the class) for me due to my otherwise excellent performance.
In other words, I wouldn't have to pay a visit to his office to hand in a blank sheet.
Reasonable guy, I thought.
So my transcript for the semester came back with an A- for that class.
No harm no foul.Fast forward a month or so into summer.
I receive a letter from SJSU's administrative office.
What is inside but a form for "Notice of Letter Grade Change" or some such.
Beeson had retroactively changed my grade from an A- to a C, and too late for me to do anything to remedy it (like handing in a blank sheet).
That was the M. Beeson psycho crusher, I assume.When I was taking his class, my opinion of Beeson was that he was a cynical but otherwise ok guy (nothing wrong with a healthy amount of cynicism).
After the grade change that he pulled on me, I was pretty sure that he was an asshole.
This story seems to confirm it.
Unfortunately, most of the senior CS staff at SJSU are dicks.
Strangely, the math profs aren't as bad, and several are actually pretty cool.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319759</id>
	<title>Re:FIRST! And welcome to fraternity file cabinets</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244907540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is more than one way to approach a problem.  Those guys will probably be your boss, since they're more efficient than you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is more than one way to approach a problem .
Those guys will probably be your boss , since they 're more efficient than you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is more than one way to approach a problem.
Those guys will probably be your boss, since they're more efficient than you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319575</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320153</id>
	<title>Kudos</title>
	<author>Temujin\_12</author>
	<datestamp>1244911320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can understand why the professor wouldn't want to change his curriculum (it'd be like someone telling you that you can't reuse code you've written from other projects), but kudos to the department chair for siding with the quality of education rather than the status quo of the course. There are ways to detect code plagiarism beyond just doing string comparisons, so the professor may be able to even use the same project but just ratchet up the process involved in grading to detect those who just copied the work of others.<br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; </p><p><div class="quote"><p>especially now, with universities ratcheting up their tuition fees and trying to justify an education that can put students into debt for the majority of their working lives.</p></div><p>On a somewhat self-indulging side note, my wife and I just made our last payments to our student loans this summer. Only 3 and 5 years after graduation respectively too. However, we both worked full time in college, and we've been making aggressive payments to our loans ever since graduating.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can understand why the professor would n't want to change his curriculum ( it 'd be like someone telling you that you ca n't reuse code you 've written from other projects ) , but kudos to the department chair for siding with the quality of education rather than the status quo of the course .
There are ways to detect code plagiarism beyond just doing string comparisons , so the professor may be able to even use the same project but just ratchet up the process involved in grading to detect those who just copied the work of others .
    especially now , with universities ratcheting up their tuition fees and trying to justify an education that can put students into debt for the majority of their working lives.On a somewhat self-indulging side note , my wife and I just made our last payments to our student loans this summer .
Only 3 and 5 years after graduation respectively too .
However , we both worked full time in college , and we 've been making aggressive payments to our loans ever since graduating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can understand why the professor wouldn't want to change his curriculum (it'd be like someone telling you that you can't reuse code you've written from other projects), but kudos to the department chair for siding with the quality of education rather than the status quo of the course.
There are ways to detect code plagiarism beyond just doing string comparisons, so the professor may be able to even use the same project but just ratchet up the process involved in grading to detect those who just copied the work of others.
  
  especially now, with universities ratcheting up their tuition fees and trying to justify an education that can put students into debt for the majority of their working lives.On a somewhat self-indulging side note, my wife and I just made our last payments to our student loans this summer.
Only 3 and 5 years after graduation respectively too.
However, we both worked full time in college, and we've been making aggressive payments to our loans ever since graduating.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320345</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>bcrowell</author>
	<datestamp>1244912820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I would post this on Boing Boing, but I was banned for posting something similar.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
I like Doctorow's writing, and I used to enjoy reading and posting on boingboing. What drove me away from boingboing was their habit of deleting posts, etc. The problem is that Doctorow (a) is the world champion at self-promotion, (b) encourages people to form a community on boingboing, rather than treating it as a personal blog, (c) has a habit of getting into controversies, and (d) has folks working on boingboing who delete posts that he doesn't like.
</p><p>
There would be nothing wrong with d, deleting posts, if it weren't for b and c. If you try to take the other side on one of the controversies, your post gets deleted. That means it's not really a community, it's cheerleading section.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would post this on Boing Boing , but I was banned for posting something similar .
I like Doctorow 's writing , and I used to enjoy reading and posting on boingboing .
What drove me away from boingboing was their habit of deleting posts , etc .
The problem is that Doctorow ( a ) is the world champion at self-promotion , ( b ) encourages people to form a community on boingboing , rather than treating it as a personal blog , ( c ) has a habit of getting into controversies , and ( d ) has folks working on boingboing who delete posts that he does n't like .
There would be nothing wrong with d , deleting posts , if it were n't for b and c. If you try to take the other side on one of the controversies , your post gets deleted .
That means it 's not really a community , it 's cheerleading section .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would post this on Boing Boing, but I was banned for posting something similar.
I like Doctorow's writing, and I used to enjoy reading and posting on boingboing.
What drove me away from boingboing was their habit of deleting posts, etc.
The problem is that Doctorow (a) is the world champion at self-promotion, (b) encourages people to form a community on boingboing, rather than treating it as a personal blog, (c) has a habit of getting into controversies, and (d) has folks working on boingboing who delete posts that he doesn't like.
There would be nothing wrong with d, deleting posts, if it weren't for b and c. If you try to take the other side on one of the controversies, your post gets deleted.
That means it's not really a community, it's cheerleading section.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28322033</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1244883780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Do not underestimate the work involved in preparing a new course. I teach for a few weeks every year, and can easily spend several days preparing a new one-hour lesson. Even recycled material needs updating and revising, and the preparation time is at least equal to the teaching time.</i></p><p>I haven't taught in some time, but I do remember that at least for computer science, it's easy to make almost trivial changes to design specs that make turning in someone's work from a previous assignment useless. It's disingenuous to even be talking about preparing new course work as if the professor here needs to come up with a whole new course. You're defending the indefensible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do not underestimate the work involved in preparing a new course .
I teach for a few weeks every year , and can easily spend several days preparing a new one-hour lesson .
Even recycled material needs updating and revising , and the preparation time is at least equal to the teaching time.I have n't taught in some time , but I do remember that at least for computer science , it 's easy to make almost trivial changes to design specs that make turning in someone 's work from a previous assignment useless .
It 's disingenuous to even be talking about preparing new course work as if the professor here needs to come up with a whole new course .
You 're defending the indefensible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do not underestimate the work involved in preparing a new course.
I teach for a few weeks every year, and can easily spend several days preparing a new one-hour lesson.
Even recycled material needs updating and revising, and the preparation time is at least equal to the teaching time.I haven't taught in some time, but I do remember that at least for computer science, it's easy to make almost trivial changes to design specs that make turning in someone's work from a previous assignment useless.
It's disingenuous to even be talking about preparing new course work as if the professor here needs to come up with a whole new course.
You're defending the indefensible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320893</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320121</id>
	<title>Interesting tidbit</title>
	<author>kilodelta</author>
	<datestamp>1244911020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I got my Info Sci degree at a local university we were openly encouraged to share code. The theory was that other students could evaluate and critique code.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I got my Info Sci degree at a local university we were openly encouraged to share code .
The theory was that other students could evaluate and critique code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I got my Info Sci degree at a local university we were openly encouraged to share code.
The theory was that other students could evaluate and critique code.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320257</id>
	<title>zz</title>
	<author>retech</author>
	<datestamp>1244911980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sorry, the moment I read "Cory Doctorow" I just get a dull hum in my head and lose not only focus but interest.
<br> <br>
Zz.. . . .   .</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , the moment I read " Cory Doctorow " I just get a dull hum in my head and lose not only focus but interest .
Zz.. .
. .
.</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, the moment I read "Cory Doctorow" I just get a dull hum in my head and lose not only focus but interest.
Zz.. .
. .
.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28324085</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244905620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy "tweak and resubmit" assignment.</p></div><p>There's a pretty finite set of assignments suitable for teaching fundamental programming concepts.  Especially in intro level courses.  For whatever assignment you can come up with, there is code out there that makes it and easy tweak and resubmit assignment.  That code used to be hard to find - paper textbooks, fraternity archives, etc. As public access code repositories mature, tweakable code is getting, and will only get easier to find.  There will always be students who, for laziness or failure to grasp the educational process, will try to adapt some prior solution.  In the end, they cheat themselves - they substitute google tricks for actual, practical experience working with symbol manipulation.  They cheat their peers - when an employer hires a high-GPA student from Copy U and finds he's incompetent, Copy U degrees lose some value.</p><p>A four semester rotation is just one more little step to try to obfuscate the existing solution for a straightforward problem.  All these techniques only raise the cost of finding the existing solution, with the hope that even the lazy students will find it's less work to actually solve the problem than to look up the answer.  For code, that's not going to work much longer, if it works even now.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you 're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy " tweak and resubmit " assignment.There 's a pretty finite set of assignments suitable for teaching fundamental programming concepts .
Especially in intro level courses .
For whatever assignment you can come up with , there is code out there that makes it and easy tweak and resubmit assignment .
That code used to be hard to find - paper textbooks , fraternity archives , etc .
As public access code repositories mature , tweakable code is getting , and will only get easier to find .
There will always be students who , for laziness or failure to grasp the educational process , will try to adapt some prior solution .
In the end , they cheat themselves - they substitute google tricks for actual , practical experience working with symbol manipulation .
They cheat their peers - when an employer hires a high-GPA student from Copy U and finds he 's incompetent , Copy U degrees lose some value.A four semester rotation is just one more little step to try to obfuscate the existing solution for a straightforward problem .
All these techniques only raise the cost of finding the existing solution , with the hope that even the lazy students will find it 's less work to actually solve the problem than to look up the answer .
For code , that 's not going to work much longer , if it works even now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy "tweak and resubmit" assignment.There's a pretty finite set of assignments suitable for teaching fundamental programming concepts.
Especially in intro level courses.
For whatever assignment you can come up with, there is code out there that makes it and easy tweak and resubmit assignment.
That code used to be hard to find - paper textbooks, fraternity archives, etc.
As public access code repositories mature, tweakable code is getting, and will only get easier to find.
There will always be students who, for laziness or failure to grasp the educational process, will try to adapt some prior solution.
In the end, they cheat themselves - they substitute google tricks for actual, practical experience working with symbol manipulation.
They cheat their peers - when an employer hires a high-GPA student from Copy U and finds he's incompetent, Copy U degrees lose some value.A four semester rotation is just one more little step to try to obfuscate the existing solution for a straightforward problem.
All these techniques only raise the cost of finding the existing solution, with the hope that even the lazy students will find it's less work to actually solve the problem than to look up the answer.
For code, that's not going to work much longer, if it works even now.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320741</id>
	<title>What's incredible here</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1244916060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Is the lucidity of the student's e-mail and the clarity of his message.
Uncluttered, no specious garbage, irrelevent arguments, or unessential
points subject to reproach.
</p><p>
Basically indisputable....
</p><p>
Very simple, well-organized, and extremely easy to understand.
</p><p>
We need more judges and politicians who can keep things that simple and clear.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is the lucidity of the student 's e-mail and the clarity of his message .
Uncluttered , no specious garbage , irrelevent arguments , or unessential points subject to reproach .
Basically indisputable... . Very simple , well-organized , and extremely easy to understand .
We need more judges and politicians who can keep things that simple and clear .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Is the lucidity of the student's e-mail and the clarity of his message.
Uncluttered, no specious garbage, irrelevent arguments, or unessential
points subject to reproach.
Basically indisputable....

Very simple, well-organized, and extremely easy to understand.
We need more judges and politicians who can keep things that simple and clear.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319931</id>
	<title>Intrinsic value?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244909040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Surely a useful piece of code would have instrumental value, not intrinsic value...?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely a useful piece of code would have instrumental value , not intrinsic value... ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely a useful piece of code would have instrumental value, not intrinsic value...?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320291</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>Registered Coward v2</author>
	<datestamp>1244912280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>The student released the source after the release date, which prevented any of his peers from cheating</i> </p><p>Prevented them from cheating <b>this semester</b>.  I'm sure the reason the prof wanted it taken down is so he could easily just copy-n-paste next semester's assignment.  This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.</p><p>Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy "tweak and resubmit" assignment.  Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester isn't showing any commitment, and certainly isn't staying with the times.  Computer science is in such a continuous state of flux that any prof that isn't consistently reworking their coursework isn't doing their job.</p><p>Catching these sorts of cheats isn't too difficult either even if you don't want to start projects from scratch.  Just a matter of properly adjusting the project.  Make a few fundamental changes that make it look different, update as needed, and subtly tweak a few things. (make a small change to limits etc)  This makes it fresh and new, and is fairly easy to spot a cheat since they will blatantly be meeting subtle goals from the wrong project.</p></div><p>Unless his solutions are only solution to the problem, catching cheating would be very easy - simply look for the exact same code as was posted.  If you find it, quiz the student about how they arrived at the solution, and perhaps ask how they would approach a slightly different problem.  If they fail open, they probably cheated an you can go from their.</p><p>Maybe I was lucky; but all of my professors didn't care if we looked at old tests / assignments etc.  Their attitude was - "if you take the time to review all that material you're going to learn it anyway;" and they'd always make subtle changes to the questions so simply copying and changing a number wouldn't cut it.</p><p>The reviews did help - I had one prof who'd always sneak a trick question in that required some thought and analysis; if you jumped right in you'd miss it and get the wrong answer.  When I caught that on the final I wrote "You'd think you'd do this by X; but you being a sneaky SOB we really need to do Y..." We're still friends today, many years later...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The student released the source after the release date , which prevented any of his peers from cheating Prevented them from cheating this semester .
I 'm sure the reason the prof wanted it taken down is so he could easily just copy-n-paste next semester 's assignment .
This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you 're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy " tweak and resubmit " assignment .
Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester is n't showing any commitment , and certainly is n't staying with the times .
Computer science is in such a continuous state of flux that any prof that is n't consistently reworking their coursework is n't doing their job.Catching these sorts of cheats is n't too difficult either even if you do n't want to start projects from scratch .
Just a matter of properly adjusting the project .
Make a few fundamental changes that make it look different , update as needed , and subtly tweak a few things .
( make a small change to limits etc ) This makes it fresh and new , and is fairly easy to spot a cheat since they will blatantly be meeting subtle goals from the wrong project.Unless his solutions are only solution to the problem , catching cheating would be very easy - simply look for the exact same code as was posted .
If you find it , quiz the student about how they arrived at the solution , and perhaps ask how they would approach a slightly different problem .
If they fail open , they probably cheated an you can go from their.Maybe I was lucky ; but all of my professors did n't care if we looked at old tests / assignments etc .
Their attitude was - " if you take the time to review all that material you 're going to learn it anyway ; " and they 'd always make subtle changes to the questions so simply copying and changing a number would n't cut it.The reviews did help - I had one prof who 'd always sneak a trick question in that required some thought and analysis ; if you jumped right in you 'd miss it and get the wrong answer .
When I caught that on the final I wrote " You 'd think you 'd do this by X ; but you being a sneaky SOB we really need to do Y... " We 're still friends today , many years later.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The student released the source after the release date, which prevented any of his peers from cheating Prevented them from cheating this semester.
I'm sure the reason the prof wanted it taken down is so he could easily just copy-n-paste next semester's assignment.
This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.Good profs at the very least work on a 4 semester rotation of courses where you're going to have to dig up a student from a few years ago at least before you have an easy "tweak and resubmit" assignment.
Any instructor that dishes out the exact same projects semester after semester isn't showing any commitment, and certainly isn't staying with the times.
Computer science is in such a continuous state of flux that any prof that isn't consistently reworking their coursework isn't doing their job.Catching these sorts of cheats isn't too difficult either even if you don't want to start projects from scratch.
Just a matter of properly adjusting the project.
Make a few fundamental changes that make it look different, update as needed, and subtly tweak a few things.
(make a small change to limits etc)  This makes it fresh and new, and is fairly easy to spot a cheat since they will blatantly be meeting subtle goals from the wrong project.Unless his solutions are only solution to the problem, catching cheating would be very easy - simply look for the exact same code as was posted.
If you find it, quiz the student about how they arrived at the solution, and perhaps ask how they would approach a slightly different problem.
If they fail open, they probably cheated an you can go from their.Maybe I was lucky; but all of my professors didn't care if we looked at old tests / assignments etc.
Their attitude was - "if you take the time to review all that material you're going to learn it anyway;" and they'd always make subtle changes to the questions so simply copying and changing a number wouldn't cut it.The reviews did help - I had one prof who'd always sneak a trick question in that required some thought and analysis; if you jumped right in you'd miss it and get the wrong answer.
When I caught that on the final I wrote "You'd think you'd do this by X; but you being a sneaky SOB we really need to do Y..." We're still friends today, many years later...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28322597</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>mangu</author>
	<datestamp>1244889300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>educators need to get off there high horses and start being more innovative. Instead of always re-running assignment X for the past 5 years</p></div></blockquote><p>Hmmm, no, this will not work. Think of Physics 103 - Electromagnetism. Should students learn new versions of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwells\_equations" title="wikipedia.org">Maxwell's equations</a> [wikipedia.org] every year?</p><p>OK, I see your point. Exercises should have different parameters. Instead of calculation the magnetic field 5 cm distant from a wire carrying 10 A, calculate the field 12 cm away from a wire carrying 7 A. But still there wouldn't be too much room for variation in many subjects.</p><p>Perhaps it would be better to admit that if a student researched enough to find an answer to the problem he has learned something about it. If copying a working solution to a problem from the internet is cheating, then I cheat all the time in my work.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>educators need to get off there high horses and start being more innovative .
Instead of always re-running assignment X for the past 5 yearsHmmm , no , this will not work .
Think of Physics 103 - Electromagnetism .
Should students learn new versions of Maxwell 's equations [ wikipedia.org ] every year ? OK , I see your point .
Exercises should have different parameters .
Instead of calculation the magnetic field 5 cm distant from a wire carrying 10 A , calculate the field 12 cm away from a wire carrying 7 A. But still there would n't be too much room for variation in many subjects.Perhaps it would be better to admit that if a student researched enough to find an answer to the problem he has learned something about it .
If copying a working solution to a problem from the internet is cheating , then I cheat all the time in my work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>educators need to get off there high horses and start being more innovative.
Instead of always re-running assignment X for the past 5 yearsHmmm, no, this will not work.
Think of Physics 103 - Electromagnetism.
Should students learn new versions of Maxwell's equations [wikipedia.org] every year?OK, I see your point.
Exercises should have different parameters.
Instead of calculation the magnetic field 5 cm distant from a wire carrying 10 A, calculate the field 12 cm away from a wire carrying 7 A. But still there wouldn't be too much room for variation in many subjects.Perhaps it would be better to admit that if a student researched enough to find an answer to the problem he has learned something about it.
If copying a working solution to a problem from the internet is cheating, then I cheat all the time in my work.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320545</id>
	<title>Re:Amazing</title>
	<author>loom\_weaver</author>
	<datestamp>1244914380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I spent two terms as a teaching assistant to a fourth year Networking course.  After the second term I was already becoming jaded.  Half of the students were eager to learn, and the other half... well they'd do the bare minimum to pass.  Reading the requirements looking only for the parts that counted for marks and then barely implementing those pieces.  Their code was a god-awful mess and while it may have passed most of the bullet points of the requirements it was mostly unusable as a program.</p><p>Perhaps this was just during the dot-com boom and a large portion of the students were taking computer science for the money, not because they liked it or were good at it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I spent two terms as a teaching assistant to a fourth year Networking course .
After the second term I was already becoming jaded .
Half of the students were eager to learn , and the other half... well they 'd do the bare minimum to pass .
Reading the requirements looking only for the parts that counted for marks and then barely implementing those pieces .
Their code was a god-awful mess and while it may have passed most of the bullet points of the requirements it was mostly unusable as a program.Perhaps this was just during the dot-com boom and a large portion of the students were taking computer science for the money , not because they liked it or were good at it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I spent two terms as a teaching assistant to a fourth year Networking course.
After the second term I was already becoming jaded.
Half of the students were eager to learn, and the other half... well they'd do the bare minimum to pass.
Reading the requirements looking only for the parts that counted for marks and then barely implementing those pieces.
Their code was a god-awful mess and while it may have passed most of the bullet points of the requirements it was mostly unusable as a program.Perhaps this was just during the dot-com boom and a large portion of the students were taking computer science for the money, not because they liked it or were good at it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319507</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320395</id>
	<title>Re:FIRST! And welcome to fraternity file cabinets</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244913180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a Physical Chemistry professor who would make all his old exams available in the Chemistry Library. For one of our exams, he even allowed us to bring in our textbook, solution manual, notes, old exams, books from the library, computers, anything we wanted. It was a disaster. Class (120 students) average on that exam was 49. At the end of the day, you either know the material or you don't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a Physical Chemistry professor who would make all his old exams available in the Chemistry Library .
For one of our exams , he even allowed us to bring in our textbook , solution manual , notes , old exams , books from the library , computers , anything we wanted .
It was a disaster .
Class ( 120 students ) average on that exam was 49 .
At the end of the day , you either know the material or you do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a Physical Chemistry professor who would make all his old exams available in the Chemistry Library.
For one of our exams, he even allowed us to bring in our textbook, solution manual, notes, old exams, books from the library, computers, anything we wanted.
It was a disaster.
Class (120 students) average on that exam was 49.
At the end of the day, you either know the material or you don't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319409</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320071</id>
	<title>Re:and the dept head said</title>
	<author>Neotrantor</author>
	<datestamp>1244910600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>failing a student for cheating is not an ethical violation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>failing a student for cheating is not an ethical violation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>failing a student for cheating is not an ethical violation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319437</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319735</id>
	<title>My thoughts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244907360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been an academician for a while. I wouldn't mind students putting up their assignments after the assignment deadline. Some assignments are a great amount of work and it is good that students would like the rest of the world to benefit from them. However, if they do put it before the deadline they would prevent other lazy students from making an attempt at the assignment. Students learn quite a bit from doing the assignments. To an extent, open source does curtail students' thinking when it comes to short assignments but it helps them on larger projects.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been an academician for a while .
I would n't mind students putting up their assignments after the assignment deadline .
Some assignments are a great amount of work and it is good that students would like the rest of the world to benefit from them .
However , if they do put it before the deadline they would prevent other lazy students from making an attempt at the assignment .
Students learn quite a bit from doing the assignments .
To an extent , open source does curtail students ' thinking when it comes to short assignments but it helps them on larger projects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been an academician for a while.
I wouldn't mind students putting up their assignments after the assignment deadline.
Some assignments are a great amount of work and it is good that students would like the rest of the world to benefit from them.
However, if they do put it before the deadline they would prevent other lazy students from making an attempt at the assignment.
Students learn quite a bit from doing the assignments.
To an extent, open source does curtail students' thinking when it comes to short assignments but it helps them on larger projects.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319907</id>
	<title>I published all my schoolwork</title>
	<author>Jon Abbott</author>
	<datestamp>1244908860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I meticulously posted all of my undergraduate and graduate schoolwork (notes and homework assignments) to my student website.  Thankfully I was never approached by the school to take it down.  I <em>was</em> approached by a company we did a study at, who rightly pointed out that what I posted shouldn't have been, which I promptly removed.  Everything else remained until my account was de-activated after graduation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I meticulously posted all of my undergraduate and graduate schoolwork ( notes and homework assignments ) to my student website .
Thankfully I was never approached by the school to take it down .
I was approached by a company we did a study at , who rightly pointed out that what I posted should n't have been , which I promptly removed .
Everything else remained until my account was de-activated after graduation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I meticulously posted all of my undergraduate and graduate schoolwork (notes and homework assignments) to my student website.
Thankfully I was never approached by the school to take it down.
I was approached by a company we did a study at, who rightly pointed out that what I posted shouldn't have been, which I promptly removed.
Everything else remained until my account was de-activated after graduation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321455</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>jadavis</author>
	<datestamp>1244921280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.</i></p><p>When teaching entry-level courses, and even fairly advanced courses, having original assignments each semester has very little benefit <b>aside from preventing cheating</b>. The only laziness he's showing is that he doesn't want to do a lot of extra work to prevent students from cheating, because he's a teacher, not the academic honesty police.</p><p><i>certainly isn't staying with the times</i></p><p>Because a class full of undergrads is on the frontiers of the computer science field? Or because you think the teacher should update their material to match the latest fad?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.When teaching entry-level courses , and even fairly advanced courses , having original assignments each semester has very little benefit aside from preventing cheating .
The only laziness he 's showing is that he does n't want to do a lot of extra work to prevent students from cheating , because he 's a teacher , not the academic honesty police.certainly is n't staying with the timesBecause a class full of undergrads is on the frontiers of the computer science field ?
Or because you think the teacher should update their material to match the latest fad ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a lazy instructor working to maintain his laziness.When teaching entry-level courses, and even fairly advanced courses, having original assignments each semester has very little benefit aside from preventing cheating.
The only laziness he's showing is that he doesn't want to do a lot of extra work to prevent students from cheating, because he's a teacher, not the academic honesty police.certainly isn't staying with the timesBecause a class full of undergrads is on the frontiers of the computer science field?
Or because you think the teacher should update their material to match the latest fad?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320407</id>
	<title>Re:The Professor is an Idiot</title>
	<author>ultranova</author>
	<datestamp>1244913300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In the US, a written and signed agreement is necessary for copyright transfer.</p></div> </blockquote><p>Nah. In the US - and everywhere else, for that matter - all you need is more money than your opponent.</p><blockquote><div><p>A policy statement by the university isn't going to cut it.</p></div> </blockquote><p>The university has more money than the student. Therefore, whatever the university says is the law.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the US , a written and signed agreement is necessary for copyright transfer .
Nah. In the US - and everywhere else , for that matter - all you need is more money than your opponent.A policy statement by the university is n't going to cut it .
The university has more money than the student .
Therefore , whatever the university says is the law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the US, a written and signed agreement is necessary for copyright transfer.
Nah. In the US - and everywhere else, for that matter - all you need is more money than your opponent.A policy statement by the university isn't going to cut it.
The university has more money than the student.
Therefore, whatever the university says is the law.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321963</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Homburg</author>
	<datestamp>1244926260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have no idea why you think a PhD is a formal requirement for being a professor. Of course, most professors do have a PhD, but it's not completely unprecedented for people to be so obviously brilliant as undergraduates they get an academic post before doing a PhD and so, in time, become a professor without ever getting a doctorate; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin\_Skinner" title="wikipedia.org">Quentin Skinner</a> [wikipedia.org] is an example.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have no idea why you think a PhD is a formal requirement for being a professor .
Of course , most professors do have a PhD , but it 's not completely unprecedented for people to be so obviously brilliant as undergraduates they get an academic post before doing a PhD and so , in time , become a professor without ever getting a doctorate ; Quentin Skinner [ wikipedia.org ] is an example .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have no idea why you think a PhD is a formal requirement for being a professor.
Of course, most professors do have a PhD, but it's not completely unprecedented for people to be so obviously brilliant as undergraduates they get an academic post before doing a PhD and so, in time, become a professor without ever getting a doctorate; Quentin Skinner [wikipedia.org] is an example.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28323653</id>
	<title>Posting code written while at school...</title>
	<author>Bigkittywolf</author>
	<datestamp>1244900040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While I think failing the student is a little extreme, but the teacher might have had a different take on it. Some schools have intellectual property rights on what you create during/for class. Now, I admit, any school that fights over a bubble sort or something of similar ease has issues greater than a little lawsuit. But some college classes run as if this were a "Workplace" where your "assignment" is something akin to what you might run into IRL. So, immediately after the due date for the assignment the programmer goes posting the code on the net would probably be fired or otherwise supremely reprimanded if this was an actual business.

In short, while it wasn't expressly forbidden, it also wasn't expressly allowed. While the teacher shouldn't have gone to such an extreme step as failing immediately (maybe say that the student will get a 0 or something for that grade), the student should be aware of why the teacher is requesting such an act.

Then again... it could all be blown out of proportion and people should just laugh and move on.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While I think failing the student is a little extreme , but the teacher might have had a different take on it .
Some schools have intellectual property rights on what you create during/for class .
Now , I admit , any school that fights over a bubble sort or something of similar ease has issues greater than a little lawsuit .
But some college classes run as if this were a " Workplace " where your " assignment " is something akin to what you might run into IRL .
So , immediately after the due date for the assignment the programmer goes posting the code on the net would probably be fired or otherwise supremely reprimanded if this was an actual business .
In short , while it was n't expressly forbidden , it also was n't expressly allowed .
While the teacher should n't have gone to such an extreme step as failing immediately ( maybe say that the student will get a 0 or something for that grade ) , the student should be aware of why the teacher is requesting such an act .
Then again... it could all be blown out of proportion and people should just laugh and move on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I think failing the student is a little extreme, but the teacher might have had a different take on it.
Some schools have intellectual property rights on what you create during/for class.
Now, I admit, any school that fights over a bubble sort or something of similar ease has issues greater than a little lawsuit.
But some college classes run as if this were a "Workplace" where your "assignment" is something akin to what you might run into IRL.
So, immediately after the due date for the assignment the programmer goes posting the code on the net would probably be fired or otherwise supremely reprimanded if this was an actual business.
In short, while it wasn't expressly forbidden, it also wasn't expressly allowed.
While the teacher shouldn't have gone to such an extreme step as failing immediately (maybe say that the student will get a 0 or something for that grade), the student should be aware of why the teacher is requesting such an act.
Then again... it could all be blown out of proportion and people should just laugh and move on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320165</id>
	<title>Reusing exams/assignments is not fair</title>
	<author>tukang</author>
	<datestamp>1244911380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hope professors understand that a very large portion of students get past exams and assignment solutions from friends who have taken the class before and this is simply not fair to those students who don't have access to that material - especially if the exact same exam/assignment is going to be given. But unfortunately there's very little a school can do to stop students from sharing assignments, so to level the playing field professors should not reuse exams and assignments. In fact, they should always make last semester's exam available to all students as a practice so the few students who don't happen to have a friend who already took the exam don't get unfairly punished.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hope professors understand that a very large portion of students get past exams and assignment solutions from friends who have taken the class before and this is simply not fair to those students who do n't have access to that material - especially if the exact same exam/assignment is going to be given .
But unfortunately there 's very little a school can do to stop students from sharing assignments , so to level the playing field professors should not reuse exams and assignments .
In fact , they should always make last semester 's exam available to all students as a practice so the few students who do n't happen to have a friend who already took the exam do n't get unfairly punished .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hope professors understand that a very large portion of students get past exams and assignment solutions from friends who have taken the class before and this is simply not fair to those students who don't have access to that material - especially if the exact same exam/assignment is going to be given.
But unfortunately there's very little a school can do to stop students from sharing assignments, so to level the playing field professors should not reuse exams and assignments.
In fact, they should always make last semester's exam available to all students as a practice so the few students who don't happen to have a friend who already took the exam don't get unfairly punished.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28321881</id>
	<title>Why do Profs care?</title>
	<author>Swingblade</author>
	<datestamp>1244925180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't see ANY reason why this should happen.

It doesn't matter if student's find the solutions online, in the long run. If students don't bother to learn while in school, they will burn when they get a job.

Also, if students cut'n paste the solutions they find online, fail them.

There is a difference in actually cut'n paste, and using something as a reference. Nothing wrong in sitting down, reading someone else's work, and using it. Students learn a lot from that.

I used to be a Lab engineer, teaching basic C(We start with "Hello World"). When 40 people handed in the same work, they got what was coming. Our Labs are the same every year, and it won't change just because the solutions are published by older students. The students are there to learn, and if they don't want to, not our problem.

There is NO reason to threaten a student just because they publish what they made.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see ANY reason why this should happen .
It does n't matter if student 's find the solutions online , in the long run .
If students do n't bother to learn while in school , they will burn when they get a job .
Also , if students cut'n paste the solutions they find online , fail them .
There is a difference in actually cut'n paste , and using something as a reference .
Nothing wrong in sitting down , reading someone else 's work , and using it .
Students learn a lot from that .
I used to be a Lab engineer , teaching basic C ( We start with " Hello World " ) .
When 40 people handed in the same work , they got what was coming .
Our Labs are the same every year , and it wo n't change just because the solutions are published by older students .
The students are there to learn , and if they do n't want to , not our problem .
There is NO reason to threaten a student just because they publish what they made .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see ANY reason why this should happen.
It doesn't matter if student's find the solutions online, in the long run.
If students don't bother to learn while in school, they will burn when they get a job.
Also, if students cut'n paste the solutions they find online, fail them.
There is a difference in actually cut'n paste, and using something as a reference.
Nothing wrong in sitting down, reading someone else's work, and using it.
Students learn a lot from that.
I used to be a Lab engineer, teaching basic C(We start with "Hello World").
When 40 people handed in the same work, they got what was coming.
Our Labs are the same every year, and it won't change just because the solutions are published by older students.
The students are there to learn, and if they don't want to, not our problem.
There is NO reason to threaten a student just because they publish what they made.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28325895</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>wireloose</author>
	<datestamp>1244986200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You have a good argument.  I had an advanced data structures course in college many years ago.  We got 7 programming assignments over the semester, building on the previous ones.  The teacher released a "working program" after each due date, so that you had a choice of building on his or on yours if you couldn't get your last one working.  Except he was incredibly lazy.  He only showed up for the lecture portions, talked a bit about some data structure and pointer handling, and then left.<br> <br>

This was a top University, so he only "taught" 3 classes and had 5 TAs to help him, and he mostly researched.  We didn't get graded assignments back until after the semester was over.  And he didn't publish "correct" output from the code in advance, so we were all left wondering whether what we did was what he was looking for in our results.  I took to burying comments about him in my code.  I got an A, and there were no marks on any of my printouts when I got them back.  I honestly think he just looked at the final exams.<br> <br>

As will be the way in these kinds of things, he was awarded a "top teacher" award the following year.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You have a good argument .
I had an advanced data structures course in college many years ago .
We got 7 programming assignments over the semester , building on the previous ones .
The teacher released a " working program " after each due date , so that you had a choice of building on his or on yours if you could n't get your last one working .
Except he was incredibly lazy .
He only showed up for the lecture portions , talked a bit about some data structure and pointer handling , and then left .
This was a top University , so he only " taught " 3 classes and had 5 TAs to help him , and he mostly researched .
We did n't get graded assignments back until after the semester was over .
And he did n't publish " correct " output from the code in advance , so we were all left wondering whether what we did was what he was looking for in our results .
I took to burying comments about him in my code .
I got an A , and there were no marks on any of my printouts when I got them back .
I honestly think he just looked at the final exams .
As will be the way in these kinds of things , he was awarded a " top teacher " award the following year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have a good argument.
I had an advanced data structures course in college many years ago.
We got 7 programming assignments over the semester, building on the previous ones.
The teacher released a "working program" after each due date, so that you had a choice of building on his or on yours if you couldn't get your last one working.
Except he was incredibly lazy.
He only showed up for the lecture portions, talked a bit about some data structure and pointer handling, and then left.
This was a top University, so he only "taught" 3 classes and had 5 TAs to help him, and he mostly researched.
We didn't get graded assignments back until after the semester was over.
And he didn't publish "correct" output from the code in advance, so we were all left wondering whether what we did was what he was looking for in our results.
I took to burying comments about him in my code.
I got an A, and there were no marks on any of my printouts when I got them back.
I honestly think he just looked at the final exams.
As will be the way in these kinds of things, he was awarded a "top teacher" award the following year.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28332915</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers wrong here</title>
	<author>mtremsal</author>
	<datestamp>1245057900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought I could share some of my personal experience here.</p><p>I am a student in a French school of engineering (pardon my english mistakes).<br>This year, we had a very basic Java course (~30 hours).<br>The lessons were based on a 150 pages document, written by the school's teachers over the years, that had turned into something quite bloated and useless ("open the document page 36, then read page 17").<br>Teachers couldn't point out what students would find hard to understand about OO programming, so the document was very precise on the more advanced points, but very raw on the basic principles (what a Class is).</p><p>I am part of my school's studies council and wanted to contribute to the school's pedagogy.<br>So I had a meeting with the teachers and proposed to rewrite the document.<br>Glad that a student would be willing to play an active role in his education (and thinking that would be less work for them), they accepted.</p><p>And I started working.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br>The current version of the document is a 36 pages LaTeX file.<br>It took me +100 hours to write it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and I am still not satisfied with some points and illustrations.</p><p>Point is : writing a course is WAY more work than I had thought.<br>And a good assignment is not easy to write. Changing it each year would be a huge PITA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought I could share some of my personal experience here.I am a student in a French school of engineering ( pardon my english mistakes ) .This year , we had a very basic Java course ( ~ 30 hours ) .The lessons were based on a 150 pages document , written by the school 's teachers over the years , that had turned into something quite bloated and useless ( " open the document page 36 , then read page 17 " ) .Teachers could n't point out what students would find hard to understand about OO programming , so the document was very precise on the more advanced points , but very raw on the basic principles ( what a Class is ) .I am part of my school 's studies council and wanted to contribute to the school 's pedagogy.So I had a meeting with the teachers and proposed to rewrite the document.Glad that a student would be willing to play an active role in his education ( and thinking that would be less work for them ) , they accepted.And I started working .
...The current version of the document is a 36 pages LaTeX file.It took me + 100 hours to write it ... and I am still not satisfied with some points and illustrations.Point is : writing a course is WAY more work than I had thought.And a good assignment is not easy to write .
Changing it each year would be a huge PITA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought I could share some of my personal experience here.I am a student in a French school of engineering (pardon my english mistakes).This year, we had a very basic Java course (~30 hours).The lessons were based on a 150 pages document, written by the school's teachers over the years, that had turned into something quite bloated and useless ("open the document page 36, then read page 17").Teachers couldn't point out what students would find hard to understand about OO programming, so the document was very precise on the more advanced points, but very raw on the basic principles (what a Class is).I am part of my school's studies council and wanted to contribute to the school's pedagogy.So I had a meeting with the teachers and proposed to rewrite the document.Glad that a student would be willing to play an active role in his education (and thinking that would be less work for them), they accepted.And I started working.
...The current version of the document is a 36 pages LaTeX file.It took me +100 hours to write it ... and I am still not satisfied with some points and illustrations.Point is : writing a course is WAY more work than I had thought.And a good assignment is not easy to write.
Changing it each year would be a huge PITA.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28320893</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319953</id>
	<title>Re:CORY DOCTOROW IS NOT A "PROF."</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244909340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pardon my ignorance, but exactly who is ths Cory Doctorow person and what does he do? Is he important?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pardon my ignorance , but exactly who is ths Cory Doctorow person and what does he do ?
Is he important ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pardon my ignorance, but exactly who is ths Cory Doctorow person and what does he do?
Is he important?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_13_123211.28319793</parent>
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