<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_09_1243211</id>
	<title>California To Move To Online Textbooks</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1244552820000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://hughpickens.com/" rel="nofollow">Hugh Pickens</a> writes <i>"Last year California spent $350m on textbooks so facing a state budget shortfall of $24.3 billion, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has unveiled a plan to <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8090450.stm">save money by phasing out 'antiquated, heavy, expensive textbooks'</a> in favor of internet aids. Schwarzenegger believes internet activities such as Facebook, Twitter and downloading to iPods show that young people are the first to adopt new online technologies and that the internet is the best way to learn in classrooms so from the beginning of the school year in August, math and science students in California's high schools will have access to online texts that have passed an academic standards review. '<a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci\_12536333">It's nonsensical &mdash; and expensive &mdash; to look to traditional hard-bound books</a> when information today is so readily available in electronic form,' writes Schwarzenegger.  'As the music and newspaper industries will attest, those who adapt quickly to changing consumer and business demands will thrive in our increasingly digital society and worldwide economy. Digital textbooks can help us achieve those goals and ensure that California's students continue to thrive in the global marketplace.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hugh Pickens writes " Last year California spent $ 350m on textbooks so facing a state budget shortfall of $ 24.3 billion , California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has unveiled a plan to save money by phasing out 'antiquated , heavy , expensive textbooks ' in favor of internet aids .
Schwarzenegger believes internet activities such as Facebook , Twitter and downloading to iPods show that young people are the first to adopt new online technologies and that the internet is the best way to learn in classrooms so from the beginning of the school year in August , math and science students in California 's high schools will have access to online texts that have passed an academic standards review .
'It 's nonsensical    and expensive    to look to traditional hard-bound books when information today is so readily available in electronic form, ' writes Schwarzenegger .
'As the music and newspaper industries will attest , those who adapt quickly to changing consumer and business demands will thrive in our increasingly digital society and worldwide economy .
Digital textbooks can help us achieve those goals and ensure that California 's students continue to thrive in the global marketplace .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hugh Pickens writes "Last year California spent $350m on textbooks so facing a state budget shortfall of $24.3 billion, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has unveiled a plan to save money by phasing out 'antiquated, heavy, expensive textbooks' in favor of internet aids.
Schwarzenegger believes internet activities such as Facebook, Twitter and downloading to iPods show that young people are the first to adopt new online technologies and that the internet is the best way to learn in classrooms so from the beginning of the school year in August, math and science students in California's high schools will have access to online texts that have passed an academic standards review.
'It's nonsensical — and expensive — to look to traditional hard-bound books when information today is so readily available in electronic form,' writes Schwarzenegger.
'As the music and newspaper industries will attest, those who adapt quickly to changing consumer and business demands will thrive in our increasingly digital society and worldwide economy.
Digital textbooks can help us achieve those goals and ensure that California's students continue to thrive in the global marketplace.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</id>
	<title>No its not...</title>
	<author>Darkness404</author>
	<datestamp>1244556900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> 'It's nonsensical -- and expensive -- to look to traditional hard-bound books  when information today is so readily available in electronic form,'</p> </div><p>

Yes, but online textbooks if they don't come with a hard-bound textbook are a bad idea. Already in schools whenever there is an internet outage, virus outbreak, etc. The school basically shuts down in the fact that teachers can't enter in grades, etc. But now the teachers couldn't teach. Then what happens if for some reason these textbooks are not cross platform? What if they restrict access to only Windows machines, or Windows and Mac? What happens whenever a student's computer breaks so they can't do the assignment or if they can only afford low-speed internet or that is all that is offered where they live? What happens if their computer is too old to properly render the site? What happens if the computer lab's hours are inconvenient for said students (for example an after school job where they usually work with their physical textbook during down time)? Take the old saying "my printer broke" and multiply it by a few thousand and thats going to be the result of this program if they do not mandate having a physical textbook.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'It 's nonsensical -- and expensive -- to look to traditional hard-bound books when information today is so readily available in electronic form, ' Yes , but online textbooks if they do n't come with a hard-bound textbook are a bad idea .
Already in schools whenever there is an internet outage , virus outbreak , etc .
The school basically shuts down in the fact that teachers ca n't enter in grades , etc .
But now the teachers could n't teach .
Then what happens if for some reason these textbooks are not cross platform ?
What if they restrict access to only Windows machines , or Windows and Mac ?
What happens whenever a student 's computer breaks so they ca n't do the assignment or if they can only afford low-speed internet or that is all that is offered where they live ?
What happens if their computer is too old to properly render the site ?
What happens if the computer lab 's hours are inconvenient for said students ( for example an after school job where they usually work with their physical textbook during down time ) ?
Take the old saying " my printer broke " and multiply it by a few thousand and thats going to be the result of this program if they do not mandate having a physical textbook .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> 'It's nonsensical -- and expensive -- to look to traditional hard-bound books  when information today is so readily available in electronic form,' 

Yes, but online textbooks if they don't come with a hard-bound textbook are a bad idea.
Already in schools whenever there is an internet outage, virus outbreak, etc.
The school basically shuts down in the fact that teachers can't enter in grades, etc.
But now the teachers couldn't teach.
Then what happens if for some reason these textbooks are not cross platform?
What if they restrict access to only Windows machines, or Windows and Mac?
What happens whenever a student's computer breaks so they can't do the assignment or if they can only afford low-speed internet or that is all that is offered where they live?
What happens if their computer is too old to properly render the site?
What happens if the computer lab's hours are inconvenient for said students (for example an after school job where they usually work with their physical textbook during down time)?
Take the old saying "my printer broke" and multiply it by a few thousand and thats going to be the result of this program if they do not mandate having a physical textbook.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264823</id>
	<title>Online everything sucks because...</title>
	<author>ground.zero.612</author>
	<datestamp>1244558640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>people with opinions can and do edit content. People with no discipline and over-sized egos can and do break into computer systems and edit content. I already don't like the idea of making my medical records available to the black market online; let alone giving the black market the ability to directly influence my children's learning capabilities. My neighborhood, city, state, country, and society have no business teaching my children anything unless I allow it. Period. No matter how fucked up people think that is.</htmltext>
<tokenext>people with opinions can and do edit content .
People with no discipline and over-sized egos can and do break into computer systems and edit content .
I already do n't like the idea of making my medical records available to the black market online ; let alone giving the black market the ability to directly influence my children 's learning capabilities .
My neighborhood , city , state , country , and society have no business teaching my children anything unless I allow it .
Period. No matter how fucked up people think that is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>people with opinions can and do edit content.
People with no discipline and over-sized egos can and do break into computer systems and edit content.
I already don't like the idea of making my medical records available to the black market online; let alone giving the black market the ability to directly influence my children's learning capabilities.
My neighborhood, city, state, country, and society have no business teaching my children anything unless I allow it.
Period. No matter how fucked up people think that is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266029</id>
	<title>For Sciences? No Thanks</title>
	<author>rainmaestro</author>
	<datestamp>1244563800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of all the courses to institute online texts, the sciences? I had nothing but issues with online material when I took Chem and Physics in college. The biggest issue wasn't the texts, though, it was the helper apps that came with it. In both courses, we submitted our homework online, which was automatically graded. This became a real issue when dealing with units, as the parser had the most obtuse formatting requirements. You'd end up with answers that looked like this when typed in:</p><p>(3)((NH[4])[2]SO[4]) ---&gt; (2)(NH[4]OH) + (5)(SO[2])</p><p>I realize that's not a valid reaction, but it illustrates my point. I spent more time figuring out the damn formatting than I did solving the problems.</p><p>Problems came in sets of 5, so if you screwed up the formatting of one, you had to do them ALL over again (and they always changed the problems slightly). Same problem when dealing with complicated units in physics problems. The physics parser couldn't even handle spaces gracefully.<br>y[2] = 3.689 {(ft)*(lb)}/{(sec)^(2)}    ---correct<br>y[2]=3.689 {(ft) * (lb)} / {(sec)^(2)}      ---incorrect</p><p>I got so sick of the formatting issues that I wrote a little helper app to handle the formatting for me.</p><p>In some classes, though, having no textbook at all wasn't an issue. One professor taught all his courses via Powerpoint, so he just removed key words from the slides and printed out two hundred pages per student (400-student classes) at Kinkos (college bookstore charged a lot more to print copies). $20 a student and we were set.</p><p>Online texts may well be the future, but when it comes to math/science/engineering, the texts just aren't ready. Social sciences, sure (I took a few archaeology courses online with only a few issues stemming from Blackboard being the biggest POS in existence), but not hard sciences.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of all the courses to institute online texts , the sciences ?
I had nothing but issues with online material when I took Chem and Physics in college .
The biggest issue was n't the texts , though , it was the helper apps that came with it .
In both courses , we submitted our homework online , which was automatically graded .
This became a real issue when dealing with units , as the parser had the most obtuse formatting requirements .
You 'd end up with answers that looked like this when typed in : ( 3 ) ( ( NH [ 4 ] ) [ 2 ] SO [ 4 ] ) --- &gt; ( 2 ) ( NH [ 4 ] OH ) + ( 5 ) ( SO [ 2 ] ) I realize that 's not a valid reaction , but it illustrates my point .
I spent more time figuring out the damn formatting than I did solving the problems.Problems came in sets of 5 , so if you screwed up the formatting of one , you had to do them ALL over again ( and they always changed the problems slightly ) .
Same problem when dealing with complicated units in physics problems .
The physics parser could n't even handle spaces gracefully.y [ 2 ] = 3.689 { ( ft ) * ( lb ) } / { ( sec ) ^ ( 2 ) } ---correcty [ 2 ] = 3.689 { ( ft ) * ( lb ) } / { ( sec ) ^ ( 2 ) } ---incorrectI got so sick of the formatting issues that I wrote a little helper app to handle the formatting for me.In some classes , though , having no textbook at all was n't an issue .
One professor taught all his courses via Powerpoint , so he just removed key words from the slides and printed out two hundred pages per student ( 400-student classes ) at Kinkos ( college bookstore charged a lot more to print copies ) .
$ 20 a student and we were set.Online texts may well be the future , but when it comes to math/science/engineering , the texts just are n't ready .
Social sciences , sure ( I took a few archaeology courses online with only a few issues stemming from Blackboard being the biggest POS in existence ) , but not hard sciences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of all the courses to institute online texts, the sciences?
I had nothing but issues with online material when I took Chem and Physics in college.
The biggest issue wasn't the texts, though, it was the helper apps that came with it.
In both courses, we submitted our homework online, which was automatically graded.
This became a real issue when dealing with units, as the parser had the most obtuse formatting requirements.
You'd end up with answers that looked like this when typed in:(3)((NH[4])[2]SO[4]) ---&gt; (2)(NH[4]OH) + (5)(SO[2])I realize that's not a valid reaction, but it illustrates my point.
I spent more time figuring out the damn formatting than I did solving the problems.Problems came in sets of 5, so if you screwed up the formatting of one, you had to do them ALL over again (and they always changed the problems slightly).
Same problem when dealing with complicated units in physics problems.
The physics parser couldn't even handle spaces gracefully.y[2] = 3.689 {(ft)*(lb)}/{(sec)^(2)}    ---correcty[2]=3.689 {(ft) * (lb)} / {(sec)^(2)}      ---incorrectI got so sick of the formatting issues that I wrote a little helper app to handle the formatting for me.In some classes, though, having no textbook at all wasn't an issue.
One professor taught all his courses via Powerpoint, so he just removed key words from the slides and printed out two hundred pages per student (400-student classes) at Kinkos (college bookstore charged a lot more to print copies).
$20 a student and we were set.Online texts may well be the future, but when it comes to math/science/engineering, the texts just aren't ready.
Social sciences, sure (I took a few archaeology courses online with only a few issues stemming from Blackboard being the biggest POS in existence), but not hard sciences.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28270959</id>
	<title>Re:No its not...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244539080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What happens when a fire breaks out? What happens if the teacher forgets their lesson plans? What happens if the teacher forgets their teachers-only answer book? What happens if a student forgets their text book? What happens if there are pages missing? What happens if the book has been defaced? What happens if the student forgets their homework? What happens if the students run out of paper, or no one has any more pencils or pens? What.. what<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. What... WHAT???!</p><p>To sum up: same problems we've run into, different media we're using. Apply the same principles as before that solved old problems to solve any new ones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What happens when a fire breaks out ?
What happens if the teacher forgets their lesson plans ?
What happens if the teacher forgets their teachers-only answer book ?
What happens if a student forgets their text book ?
What happens if there are pages missing ?
What happens if the book has been defaced ?
What happens if the student forgets their homework ?
What happens if the students run out of paper , or no one has any more pencils or pens ?
What.. what .. What... WHAT ? ? ?
! To sum up : same problems we 've run into , different media we 're using .
Apply the same principles as before that solved old problems to solve any new ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What happens when a fire breaks out?
What happens if the teacher forgets their lesson plans?
What happens if the teacher forgets their teachers-only answer book?
What happens if a student forgets their text book?
What happens if there are pages missing?
What happens if the book has been defaced?
What happens if the student forgets their homework?
What happens if the students run out of paper, or no one has any more pencils or pens?
What.. what .. What... WHAT???
!To sum up: same problems we've run into, different media we're using.
Apply the same principles as before that solved old problems to solve any new ones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264597</id>
	<title>Am I the only one ...</title>
	<author>krou</author>
	<datestamp>1244557620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... who find is very suspicious that a robot from the future that pretended to be our friend is now pushing through legislation to increase our dependence on machines and technology?</p><p>It's a trap!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... who find is very suspicious that a robot from the future that pretended to be our friend is now pushing through legislation to increase our dependence on machines and technology ? It 's a trap !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... who find is very suspicious that a robot from the future that pretended to be our friend is now pushing through legislation to increase our dependence on machines and technology?It's a trap!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28276135</id>
	<title>OLPC?-Cheap.</title>
	<author>Ostracus</author>
	<datestamp>1244576700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A <a href="http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/21533" title="slickdeals.net">Sony PRS 505</a> [slickdeals.net] can be had for $200.00</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A Sony PRS 505 [ slickdeals.net ] can be had for $ 200.00</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A Sony PRS 505 [slickdeals.net] can be had for $200.00</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265283</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266423</id>
	<title>Porno</title>
	<author>Sam36</author>
	<datestamp>1244565540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes put the textbooks online and then fill the margins with porno ads.
<br>Profit</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes put the textbooks online and then fill the margins with porno ads .
Profit</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes put the textbooks online and then fill the margins with porno ads.
Profit</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268849</id>
	<title>Wow, all these ignorant comments...</title>
	<author>DarkPixel</author>
	<datestamp>1244574120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have any of you even read TFA? Of course not this is slashdot... The second link contains more interesting information, so I suggest everyone checks it out. But for the lazy...</p><p>
&nbsp; </p><p><div class="quote"><p>Across the state and around the world, well-respected educators have designed customizable texts to meet the unique needs of their students. Federal grants have funded research that is free for public use. And now California has put out an initial call to content developers, asking that they submit high school math and science digital texts for our review. We hope the floodgates are open. We'll ensure the digital texts meet and exceed California's rigorous academic standards, and we'll post the results of our review online as a reference for high school districts to use in time for fall 2009.</p></div><p>First of all, this is for math(s) and science textbooks only. So don't worry about cuddling up with your English lit stuff on the couch, you can still do that. Second, this is an open call for submissions which will be up for approval. This most likely means that if there are honestly no satisfying submissions, this idea may get scrapped/postponed.</p><p>I think if these were down to earth, non-drm, popular/flexible format based ebooks that are not stuck in online-only mode and are downloadable, then there shouldn't be too many problems. Yeah, I'm curious about many of the infrastructure issues, such as delivery, storage, etc... as well as the business model that will be behind the acquirement of these textbooks.  But many of the comments I've read here seemed to be really ignorant of the above paragraph which I think negates half of the concerns I've read about so far.</p><p>
&nbsp; </p><p><div class="quote"><p>Last year, the state earmarked $350 million for school books and other instructional materials. Imagine the savings schools could realize by using these high-quality, free resources.</p></div><p>So reading further, and seeing the above statement sheds some more light on my first quote. It sounds like the state is expecting the submitted learning material to be "donated" for the cause of education. Meaning no publishers and no money involved in acquiring it. So all that's left is storage/delivery/viewing infrastructure. This is looking more promising now (just hinging on the availability of quality free educational content).</p><p>
&nbsp; </p><p><div class="quote"><p> However, there are those who ardently defend the status quo, claiming our vision of providing learning materials to students for free would risk a high-quality education.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... That's nonsense. As the music and newspaper industries will attest, those who adapt quickly to changing consumer and business demands will thrive in our increasingly digital society and worldwide economy. Digital textbooks can help us achieve those goals and ensure that California's students continue to thrive in the global marketplace.</p></div><p>Again, more mention of FREE.</p><p>I don't live in California, but I recognize that the education system in the entire country is in shambles. I'm personally glad to see ideas like these being pushed around, and not only that but actually looking like they'll get implemented and not just talked about. While it's not mentioned explicitly, this sounds to me like it's talking about k-12 education. So all of you who only remember the university environment, please realize that k-12 is different. The textbooks were never yours to begin with. Hell, I'm from Florida and sometimes my school didn't have enough textbooks to give one to each student to take home. So yes, we only used them in class. Homework was improvised... photocopy, worksheets, etc...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have any of you even read TFA ?
Of course not this is slashdot... The second link contains more interesting information , so I suggest everyone checks it out .
But for the lazy.. .   Across the state and around the world , well-respected educators have designed customizable texts to meet the unique needs of their students .
Federal grants have funded research that is free for public use .
And now California has put out an initial call to content developers , asking that they submit high school math and science digital texts for our review .
We hope the floodgates are open .
We 'll ensure the digital texts meet and exceed California 's rigorous academic standards , and we 'll post the results of our review online as a reference for high school districts to use in time for fall 2009.First of all , this is for math ( s ) and science textbooks only .
So do n't worry about cuddling up with your English lit stuff on the couch , you can still do that .
Second , this is an open call for submissions which will be up for approval .
This most likely means that if there are honestly no satisfying submissions , this idea may get scrapped/postponed.I think if these were down to earth , non-drm , popular/flexible format based ebooks that are not stuck in online-only mode and are downloadable , then there should n't be too many problems .
Yeah , I 'm curious about many of the infrastructure issues , such as delivery , storage , etc... as well as the business model that will be behind the acquirement of these textbooks .
But many of the comments I 've read here seemed to be really ignorant of the above paragraph which I think negates half of the concerns I 've read about so far .
  Last year , the state earmarked $ 350 million for school books and other instructional materials .
Imagine the savings schools could realize by using these high-quality , free resources.So reading further , and seeing the above statement sheds some more light on my first quote .
It sounds like the state is expecting the submitted learning material to be " donated " for the cause of education .
Meaning no publishers and no money involved in acquiring it .
So all that 's left is storage/delivery/viewing infrastructure .
This is looking more promising now ( just hinging on the availability of quality free educational content ) .
  However , there are those who ardently defend the status quo , claiming our vision of providing learning materials to students for free would risk a high-quality education .
... That 's nonsense .
As the music and newspaper industries will attest , those who adapt quickly to changing consumer and business demands will thrive in our increasingly digital society and worldwide economy .
Digital textbooks can help us achieve those goals and ensure that California 's students continue to thrive in the global marketplace.Again , more mention of FREE.I do n't live in California , but I recognize that the education system in the entire country is in shambles .
I 'm personally glad to see ideas like these being pushed around , and not only that but actually looking like they 'll get implemented and not just talked about .
While it 's not mentioned explicitly , this sounds to me like it 's talking about k-12 education .
So all of you who only remember the university environment , please realize that k-12 is different .
The textbooks were never yours to begin with .
Hell , I 'm from Florida and sometimes my school did n't have enough textbooks to give one to each student to take home .
So yes , we only used them in class .
Homework was improvised... photocopy , worksheets , etc.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have any of you even read TFA?
Of course not this is slashdot... The second link contains more interesting information, so I suggest everyone checks it out.
But for the lazy...
  Across the state and around the world, well-respected educators have designed customizable texts to meet the unique needs of their students.
Federal grants have funded research that is free for public use.
And now California has put out an initial call to content developers, asking that they submit high school math and science digital texts for our review.
We hope the floodgates are open.
We'll ensure the digital texts meet and exceed California's rigorous academic standards, and we'll post the results of our review online as a reference for high school districts to use in time for fall 2009.First of all, this is for math(s) and science textbooks only.
So don't worry about cuddling up with your English lit stuff on the couch, you can still do that.
Second, this is an open call for submissions which will be up for approval.
This most likely means that if there are honestly no satisfying submissions, this idea may get scrapped/postponed.I think if these were down to earth, non-drm, popular/flexible format based ebooks that are not stuck in online-only mode and are downloadable, then there shouldn't be too many problems.
Yeah, I'm curious about many of the infrastructure issues, such as delivery, storage, etc... as well as the business model that will be behind the acquirement of these textbooks.
But many of the comments I've read here seemed to be really ignorant of the above paragraph which I think negates half of the concerns I've read about so far.
  Last year, the state earmarked $350 million for school books and other instructional materials.
Imagine the savings schools could realize by using these high-quality, free resources.So reading further, and seeing the above statement sheds some more light on my first quote.
It sounds like the state is expecting the submitted learning material to be "donated" for the cause of education.
Meaning no publishers and no money involved in acquiring it.
So all that's left is storage/delivery/viewing infrastructure.
This is looking more promising now (just hinging on the availability of quality free educational content).
   However, there are those who ardently defend the status quo, claiming our vision of providing learning materials to students for free would risk a high-quality education.
... That's nonsense.
As the music and newspaper industries will attest, those who adapt quickly to changing consumer and business demands will thrive in our increasingly digital society and worldwide economy.
Digital textbooks can help us achieve those goals and ensure that California's students continue to thrive in the global marketplace.Again, more mention of FREE.I don't live in California, but I recognize that the education system in the entire country is in shambles.
I'm personally glad to see ideas like these being pushed around, and not only that but actually looking like they'll get implemented and not just talked about.
While it's not mentioned explicitly, this sounds to me like it's talking about k-12 education.
So all of you who only remember the university environment, please realize that k-12 is different.
The textbooks were never yours to begin with.
Hell, I'm from Florida and sometimes my school didn't have enough textbooks to give one to each student to take home.
So yes, we only used them in class.
Homework was improvised... photocopy, worksheets, etc...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264941</id>
	<title>Dual-edged sword</title>
	<author>Celeste R</author>
	<datestamp>1244559060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see this as a quick fix, but it's using some strong medicine.</p><p>Putting it into<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.pdf form (or whatever form they might fancy) will only inhibit the ability to think.  You can't write down notes in the margins, even if you can highlight sections of text.  This is analogous to freehand drawing vs computer aided drawing (creativity vs productivity).  The single exception I can think of is taking pictures out of the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.pdf's (if the DRM allows it).</p><p>By suddenly moving away from textbooks, we're moving further away from an old part of the brain, which has aided us in learning ever since humanity learned to tell stories from wall paintings.  In general, computers can inhibit the brain processes that aid us in mental growth, mostly because it prevents the mind from subconsciously dwelling on a topic for extended periods.  Computerized reading devices (Kindle-type products) would fare much better, but those require an investment that California may not be willing to buck up.</p><p>I'm not saying this can't work, but I am saying that it would work for people who have adapted to it (which most of the system there has not).  What I'm also saying is that creativity within the 'new school' students will plummet.  For people to adapt best to this change in learning mediums, they should start <b>from a young age</b>.  You can expect old dogs to learn new tricks works, but does it work well enough?</p><p>Something I will stress though:  there will be people who cotton to this new medium fairly well, and there will be those who won't.  I personally would feel that (if I were a child again) I would end up in the camp who wouldn't, mostly because of the subculture that will show up around this policy change.  (I went through textbooks very quickly as a child, it wouldn't be in my interests to be "stuck with" the rest of the class simply because of DRM issues)</p><p>There will be good aspects to this though:  social life will figure out ways to conform to these electronic resources.  Instant messaging is proof of this.</p><p>Say what you will about doodles being good, or doodles being bad, or even a philosophical debate over things like television and such; but not everything that technology's subcultures has brought us has been benign.  While this new policy does sound benign to the regular person, it will affect people both positively and negatively.  It needs to be respected as a dual-edged sword, instead of a stress-borne whim.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see this as a quick fix , but it 's using some strong medicine.Putting it into .pdf form ( or whatever form they might fancy ) will only inhibit the ability to think .
You ca n't write down notes in the margins , even if you can highlight sections of text .
This is analogous to freehand drawing vs computer aided drawing ( creativity vs productivity ) .
The single exception I can think of is taking pictures out of the .pdf 's ( if the DRM allows it ) .By suddenly moving away from textbooks , we 're moving further away from an old part of the brain , which has aided us in learning ever since humanity learned to tell stories from wall paintings .
In general , computers can inhibit the brain processes that aid us in mental growth , mostly because it prevents the mind from subconsciously dwelling on a topic for extended periods .
Computerized reading devices ( Kindle-type products ) would fare much better , but those require an investment that California may not be willing to buck up.I 'm not saying this ca n't work , but I am saying that it would work for people who have adapted to it ( which most of the system there has not ) .
What I 'm also saying is that creativity within the 'new school ' students will plummet .
For people to adapt best to this change in learning mediums , they should start from a young age .
You can expect old dogs to learn new tricks works , but does it work well enough ? Something I will stress though : there will be people who cotton to this new medium fairly well , and there will be those who wo n't .
I personally would feel that ( if I were a child again ) I would end up in the camp who would n't , mostly because of the subculture that will show up around this policy change .
( I went through textbooks very quickly as a child , it would n't be in my interests to be " stuck with " the rest of the class simply because of DRM issues ) There will be good aspects to this though : social life will figure out ways to conform to these electronic resources .
Instant messaging is proof of this.Say what you will about doodles being good , or doodles being bad , or even a philosophical debate over things like television and such ; but not everything that technology 's subcultures has brought us has been benign .
While this new policy does sound benign to the regular person , it will affect people both positively and negatively .
It needs to be respected as a dual-edged sword , instead of a stress-borne whim .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see this as a quick fix, but it's using some strong medicine.Putting it into .pdf form (or whatever form they might fancy) will only inhibit the ability to think.
You can't write down notes in the margins, even if you can highlight sections of text.
This is analogous to freehand drawing vs computer aided drawing (creativity vs productivity).
The single exception I can think of is taking pictures out of the .pdf's (if the DRM allows it).By suddenly moving away from textbooks, we're moving further away from an old part of the brain, which has aided us in learning ever since humanity learned to tell stories from wall paintings.
In general, computers can inhibit the brain processes that aid us in mental growth, mostly because it prevents the mind from subconsciously dwelling on a topic for extended periods.
Computerized reading devices (Kindle-type products) would fare much better, but those require an investment that California may not be willing to buck up.I'm not saying this can't work, but I am saying that it would work for people who have adapted to it (which most of the system there has not).
What I'm also saying is that creativity within the 'new school' students will plummet.
For people to adapt best to this change in learning mediums, they should start from a young age.
You can expect old dogs to learn new tricks works, but does it work well enough?Something I will stress though:  there will be people who cotton to this new medium fairly well, and there will be those who won't.
I personally would feel that (if I were a child again) I would end up in the camp who wouldn't, mostly because of the subculture that will show up around this policy change.
(I went through textbooks very quickly as a child, it wouldn't be in my interests to be "stuck with" the rest of the class simply because of DRM issues)There will be good aspects to this though:  social life will figure out ways to conform to these electronic resources.
Instant messaging is proof of this.Say what you will about doodles being good, or doodles being bad, or even a philosophical debate over things like television and such; but not everything that technology's subcultures has brought us has been benign.
While this new policy does sound benign to the regular person, it will affect people both positively and negatively.
It needs to be respected as a dual-edged sword, instead of a stress-borne whim.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265779</id>
	<title>Re:Dual-edged sword</title>
	<author>value\_added</author>
	<datestamp>1244562900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Putting it into<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.pdf form (or whatever form they might fancy) will only inhibit the ability to think<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</i></p><p>I have no doubt about that, and I'm sure other people can testify to the mind-numbing effects of staring into a monitor for extended periods of time (or the creativity that flows from using natural tools), but the negative effects you're referring to can be lessened by the use of note-taking and free-form scribbling on a paper pad, assuming such features aren't available in the electronic interface.  Me, I keep a notepad beside my laptop at all times.</p><p><i>Computerized reading devices (Kindle-type products) would fare much better, but those require an investment that California may not be willing to buck up.</i></p><p>That, I think is *the* salient point.  We can discuss the pros and cons of all the issues involved (an interesting enough discussion), but I'd wager the announcement itself is going to ignite more interest in the technology itself. As goes California, so goes the nation, right?</p><p>Amazon has successfully carved out a niche with Kindle (mostly business travellers who read popular fiction), but their device and their setup isn't the solution we're all looking for.  I see the situation as being similar to fuel efficiency standards for cars.  The goverment mandates them, the carmakers bitch and moan about the impossibility of meeting those standards, but in the end we end up with better cars and everyone's better off for it.</p><p>So if Schwarzenegger hasn't mandated A Better Kindle, he very well may have put us on the path where we will soon have one.  What flows from that may be as revolutionary as what happened to the bricks and mortar approach to selling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Putting it into .pdf form ( or whatever form they might fancy ) will only inhibit the ability to think ...I have no doubt about that , and I 'm sure other people can testify to the mind-numbing effects of staring into a monitor for extended periods of time ( or the creativity that flows from using natural tools ) , but the negative effects you 're referring to can be lessened by the use of note-taking and free-form scribbling on a paper pad , assuming such features are n't available in the electronic interface .
Me , I keep a notepad beside my laptop at all times.Computerized reading devices ( Kindle-type products ) would fare much better , but those require an investment that California may not be willing to buck up.That , I think is * the * salient point .
We can discuss the pros and cons of all the issues involved ( an interesting enough discussion ) , but I 'd wager the announcement itself is going to ignite more interest in the technology itself .
As goes California , so goes the nation , right ? Amazon has successfully carved out a niche with Kindle ( mostly business travellers who read popular fiction ) , but their device and their setup is n't the solution we 're all looking for .
I see the situation as being similar to fuel efficiency standards for cars .
The goverment mandates them , the carmakers bitch and moan about the impossibility of meeting those standards , but in the end we end up with better cars and everyone 's better off for it.So if Schwarzenegger has n't mandated A Better Kindle , he very well may have put us on the path where we will soon have one .
What flows from that may be as revolutionary as what happened to the bricks and mortar approach to selling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Putting it into .pdf form (or whatever form they might fancy) will only inhibit the ability to think ...I have no doubt about that, and I'm sure other people can testify to the mind-numbing effects of staring into a monitor for extended periods of time (or the creativity that flows from using natural tools), but the negative effects you're referring to can be lessened by the use of note-taking and free-form scribbling on a paper pad, assuming such features aren't available in the electronic interface.
Me, I keep a notepad beside my laptop at all times.Computerized reading devices (Kindle-type products) would fare much better, but those require an investment that California may not be willing to buck up.That, I think is *the* salient point.
We can discuss the pros and cons of all the issues involved (an interesting enough discussion), but I'd wager the announcement itself is going to ignite more interest in the technology itself.
As goes California, so goes the nation, right?Amazon has successfully carved out a niche with Kindle (mostly business travellers who read popular fiction), but their device and their setup isn't the solution we're all looking for.
I see the situation as being similar to fuel efficiency standards for cars.
The goverment mandates them, the carmakers bitch and moan about the impossibility of meeting those standards, but in the end we end up with better cars and everyone's better off for it.So if Schwarzenegger hasn't mandated A Better Kindle, he very well may have put us on the path where we will soon have one.
What flows from that may be as revolutionary as what happened to the bricks and mortar approach to selling.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264941</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267937</id>
	<title>Open Source Text books</title>
	<author>greywire</author>
	<datestamp>1244570940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I dont know that eliminating text books will save any money in the short term (long term it will, with cheaper and cheaper computers and handheld devices).</p><p>But what excites me is the idea that, now, "books" can be updated constantly.  Sure, the existing book companies are going to want to control this.  But eventually (maybe immediately) teachers are going to start making changes to the texts.  Ultimately, these learning materials should be written 100\% by the teachers who actually use them (and tested by actual usage by the kids with immediate feedback and changes to the teachers).  The book companies arent going to like this and they will suffer the same fate as the record companies will face... change their business model or die.</p><p>don't get me wrong, I love books.  But books are probably better suited to things that dont change, like stories, and not so much learning materials that ideally should be constantly updated.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I dont know that eliminating text books will save any money in the short term ( long term it will , with cheaper and cheaper computers and handheld devices ) .But what excites me is the idea that , now , " books " can be updated constantly .
Sure , the existing book companies are going to want to control this .
But eventually ( maybe immediately ) teachers are going to start making changes to the texts .
Ultimately , these learning materials should be written 100 \ % by the teachers who actually use them ( and tested by actual usage by the kids with immediate feedback and changes to the teachers ) .
The book companies arent going to like this and they will suffer the same fate as the record companies will face... change their business model or die.do n't get me wrong , I love books .
But books are probably better suited to things that dont change , like stories , and not so much learning materials that ideally should be constantly updated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I dont know that eliminating text books will save any money in the short term (long term it will, with cheaper and cheaper computers and handheld devices).But what excites me is the idea that, now, "books" can be updated constantly.
Sure, the existing book companies are going to want to control this.
But eventually (maybe immediately) teachers are going to start making changes to the texts.
Ultimately, these learning materials should be written 100\% by the teachers who actually use them (and tested by actual usage by the kids with immediate feedback and changes to the teachers).
The book companies arent going to like this and they will suffer the same fate as the record companies will face... change their business model or die.don't get me wrong, I love books.
But books are probably better suited to things that dont change, like stories, and not so much learning materials that ideally should be constantly updated.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264807</id>
	<title>Kindle and its ilk...</title>
	<author>edumacator</author>
	<datestamp>1244558580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a teacher in a state far away from California, but I am interested in moving away from paper novels and eventually textbooks. Right now it's not economically feasible to do so, but I wonder if economy of scale would eventually drop the prices significantly to make it worth the initial investment.</p><p>I'm curious what hindrances/benefits the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. crowd sees in moving in this direction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a teacher in a state far away from California , but I am interested in moving away from paper novels and eventually textbooks .
Right now it 's not economically feasible to do so , but I wonder if economy of scale would eventually drop the prices significantly to make it worth the initial investment.I 'm curious what hindrances/benefits the / .
crowd sees in moving in this direction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a teacher in a state far away from California, but I am interested in moving away from paper novels and eventually textbooks.
Right now it's not economically feasible to do so, but I wonder if economy of scale would eventually drop the prices significantly to make it worth the initial investment.I'm curious what hindrances/benefits the /.
crowd sees in moving in this direction.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264771</id>
	<title>Re:That's supposed to be a good idea?</title>
	<author>tarlss</author>
	<datestamp>1244558400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Uhmmmmm...this just in, kids in gradeschool/highschool AREN'T allowed to make notes in the margin, resell or keep their text books, whatsoever. What you're talking about is college text books.

And yeah, since you can't do anything like that, an online textbook is indeed, the right solution.

As to writing notes in the margin, I've never done that. I don't understand why people do that. Just write it on a piece of paper like everyone else.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Uhmmmmm...this just in , kids in gradeschool/highschool ARE N'T allowed to make notes in the margin , resell or keep their text books , whatsoever .
What you 're talking about is college text books .
And yeah , since you ca n't do anything like that , an online textbook is indeed , the right solution .
As to writing notes in the margin , I 've never done that .
I do n't understand why people do that .
Just write it on a piece of paper like everyone else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uhmmmmm...this just in, kids in gradeschool/highschool AREN'T allowed to make notes in the margin, resell or keep their text books, whatsoever.
What you're talking about is college text books.
And yeah, since you can't do anything like that, an online textbook is indeed, the right solution.
As to writing notes in the margin, I've never done that.
I don't understand why people do that.
Just write it on a piece of paper like everyone else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264551</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265627</id>
	<title>Saving money in the long run</title>
	<author>RenHoek</author>
	<datestamp>1244562300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People are talking about DRM and how it will be expensive and such..</p><p>Why doesn't the government commission the creation of new electronic text books and then give these out for free?</p><p>\_That\_ would be a cheap solution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People are talking about DRM and how it will be expensive and such..Why does n't the government commission the creation of new electronic text books and then give these out for free ? \ _That \ _ would be a cheap solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People are talking about DRM and how it will be expensive and such..Why doesn't the government commission the creation of new electronic text books and then give these out for free?\_That\_ would be a cheap solution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267443</id>
	<title>E-Texts Can Be Far Superior</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244568840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If done properly, an electronic textbook can provide a far superior learning experience over the conventional paper variety.  Graphical material, especially images, are expensive to print, but an electronic image is trivial to reproduce even in very high resolution.  Lots of images, almost needless to say, can highly augments the learning process.  More important, electronic texts can easily (hence cheaply) include animation and other multimedia content, which for subjects like science and mathematics, can significantly stimulate learning.  Paper textbooks can only be supplemented with multimedia content through very cumbersome external methods.</p><p>The electronic textbook is an opportunity to elevate common education to a new, an far better, standard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If done properly , an electronic textbook can provide a far superior learning experience over the conventional paper variety .
Graphical material , especially images , are expensive to print , but an electronic image is trivial to reproduce even in very high resolution .
Lots of images , almost needless to say , can highly augments the learning process .
More important , electronic texts can easily ( hence cheaply ) include animation and other multimedia content , which for subjects like science and mathematics , can significantly stimulate learning .
Paper textbooks can only be supplemented with multimedia content through very cumbersome external methods.The electronic textbook is an opportunity to elevate common education to a new , an far better , standard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If done properly, an electronic textbook can provide a far superior learning experience over the conventional paper variety.
Graphical material, especially images, are expensive to print, but an electronic image is trivial to reproduce even in very high resolution.
Lots of images, almost needless to say, can highly augments the learning process.
More important, electronic texts can easily (hence cheaply) include animation and other multimedia content, which for subjects like science and mathematics, can significantly stimulate learning.
Paper textbooks can only be supplemented with multimedia content through very cumbersome external methods.The electronic textbook is an opportunity to elevate common education to a new, an far better, standard.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264633</id>
	<title>Re:No its not...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244557800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Spare notebooks.  There is no reason to have a 1-1 ratio and not a 1.1-1 ratio.  As for things like internet outage, the students can have local data and/or the school can have a redundant internet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Spare notebooks .
There is no reason to have a 1-1 ratio and not a 1.1-1 ratio .
As for things like internet outage , the students can have local data and/or the school can have a redundant internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Spare notebooks.
There is no reason to have a 1-1 ratio and not a 1.1-1 ratio.
As for things like internet outage, the students can have local data and/or the school can have a redundant internet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265693</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>Endo13</author>
	<datestamp>1244562600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, and who would ever want or need to do homework at a place where there's no computer available? Seriously, spending time outside on a nice day is so overrated.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , and who would ever want or need to do homework at a place where there 's no computer available ?
Seriously , spending time outside on a nice day is so overrated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, and who would ever want or need to do homework at a place where there's no computer available?
Seriously, spending time outside on a nice day is so overrated.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265019</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28303375</id>
	<title>Re:I'm participating in this as an author.</title>
	<author>empee.mp3</author>
	<datestamp>1244732040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Great observations and perspectives from Ben Crowell.

We from CK-12 Foundation (www.ck12.org) are also participating in this initiative.  What this initiative allows is to have Teachers  presented with choice of books "from other great authors like Ben Crowell" and not just one provider.  Irrespective of this initiative, the commercial publishing houses have dwindled down to 3 main stream companies, ending up in an oligopoly situation.  It is also worth to note  that there are superior materials from NSF funded projects which are available for free.   Some examples of NSF funded projects are:

<a href="http://www.nanosense.org/" title="nanosense.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.nanosense.org/</a> [nanosense.org]
<a href="http://www.mcrel.org/nanoleap/" title="mcrel.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.mcrel.org/nanoleap/</a> [mcrel.org]

as well books created by other states like Virginia:

<a href="http://virginia.ck12.org/flexr/workbench/?searchTerm=cwv&amp;mode=search&amp;category=&amp;autoSearch=1" title="ck12.org" rel="nofollow">http://virginia.ck12.org/flexr/workbench/?searchTerm=cwv&amp;mode=search&amp;category=&amp;autoSearch=1</a> [ck12.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Great observations and perspectives from Ben Crowell .
We from CK-12 Foundation ( www.ck12.org ) are also participating in this initiative .
What this initiative allows is to have Teachers presented with choice of books " from other great authors like Ben Crowell " and not just one provider .
Irrespective of this initiative , the commercial publishing houses have dwindled down to 3 main stream companies , ending up in an oligopoly situation .
It is also worth to note that there are superior materials from NSF funded projects which are available for free .
Some examples of NSF funded projects are : http : //www.nanosense.org/ [ nanosense.org ] http : //www.mcrel.org/nanoleap/ [ mcrel.org ] as well books created by other states like Virginia : http : //virginia.ck12.org/flexr/workbench/ ? searchTerm = cwv&amp;mode = search&amp;category = &amp;autoSearch = 1 [ ck12.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great observations and perspectives from Ben Crowell.
We from CK-12 Foundation (www.ck12.org) are also participating in this initiative.
What this initiative allows is to have Teachers  presented with choice of books "from other great authors like Ben Crowell" and not just one provider.
Irrespective of this initiative, the commercial publishing houses have dwindled down to 3 main stream companies, ending up in an oligopoly situation.
It is also worth to note  that there are superior materials from NSF funded projects which are available for free.
Some examples of NSF funded projects are:

http://www.nanosense.org/ [nanosense.org]
http://www.mcrel.org/nanoleap/ [mcrel.org]

as well books created by other states like Virginia:

http://virginia.ck12.org/flexr/workbench/?searchTerm=cwv&amp;mode=search&amp;category=&amp;autoSearch=1 [ck12.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266247</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266825</id>
	<title>Zero sum gain</title>
	<author>actionbastard</author>
	<datestamp>1244566800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's all this is. Shifting the cost from paper to silicon. There's no long term savings -twenty percent of laptop computers are damaged or destroyed by students in a three year period. Allow them to take them off-campus -factor in another ten percent for loss/theft. Then there will be the inevitable five percent that just fail from a hardware standpoint and will have to be replaced or repaired. Then there is the cost to provide Internet access via 3G wireless or some other means -don't expect the parent's to pay for that. Textbooks last a lot longer and are essentially maintenance-free -plus the libraries at schools will charge for loss or damage to the books. So basically it comes down to no savings for the taxpayers and it's just a way for Schwarzenegger to look like a hero -in real life.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's all this is .
Shifting the cost from paper to silicon .
There 's no long term savings -twenty percent of laptop computers are damaged or destroyed by students in a three year period .
Allow them to take them off-campus -factor in another ten percent for loss/theft .
Then there will be the inevitable five percent that just fail from a hardware standpoint and will have to be replaced or repaired .
Then there is the cost to provide Internet access via 3G wireless or some other means -do n't expect the parent 's to pay for that .
Textbooks last a lot longer and are essentially maintenance-free -plus the libraries at schools will charge for loss or damage to the books .
So basically it comes down to no savings for the taxpayers and it 's just a way for Schwarzenegger to look like a hero -in real life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's all this is.
Shifting the cost from paper to silicon.
There's no long term savings -twenty percent of laptop computers are damaged or destroyed by students in a three year period.
Allow them to take them off-campus -factor in another ten percent for loss/theft.
Then there will be the inevitable five percent that just fail from a hardware standpoint and will have to be replaced or repaired.
Then there is the cost to provide Internet access via 3G wireless or some other means -don't expect the parent's to pay for that.
Textbooks last a lot longer and are essentially maintenance-free -plus the libraries at schools will charge for loss or damage to the books.
So basically it comes down to no savings for the taxpayers and it's just a way for Schwarzenegger to look like a hero -in real life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28274771</id>
	<title>Re:Am I the only one ...</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1244564460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I need your clothes, your books and your motorcycle."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I need your clothes , your books and your motorcycle .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I need your clothes, your books and your motorcycle.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264597</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264767</id>
	<title>I can't be the only one</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244558400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who read that tag as "one kind leper child".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who read that tag as " one kind leper child " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who read that tag as "one kind leper child".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267133</id>
	<title>A better solution...</title>
	<author>sydbarrett74</author>
	<datestamp>1244567760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about harnessing the power of something like <a href="http://www.wikibooks.org/" title="wikibooks.org">WikiBooks</a> [wikibooks.org] -- but rather than using online access, school districts could print relatively inexpensive <em>paper</em> copies using a contract printing service. Those who don't have the money to afford Internet-enabled devices can use what's tried and true, and the various districts wouldn't be saddled with supporting more infrastructure when they can barely handle what they have already.<br> <br>Note: I only used WikiBooks as a for-instance; currently, most subject areas seem a bit half-baked to be used in schools.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about harnessing the power of something like WikiBooks [ wikibooks.org ] -- but rather than using online access , school districts could print relatively inexpensive paper copies using a contract printing service .
Those who do n't have the money to afford Internet-enabled devices can use what 's tried and true , and the various districts would n't be saddled with supporting more infrastructure when they can barely handle what they have already .
Note : I only used WikiBooks as a for-instance ; currently , most subject areas seem a bit half-baked to be used in schools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about harnessing the power of something like WikiBooks [wikibooks.org] -- but rather than using online access, school districts could print relatively inexpensive paper copies using a contract printing service.
Those who don't have the money to afford Internet-enabled devices can use what's tried and true, and the various districts wouldn't be saddled with supporting more infrastructure when they can barely handle what they have already.
Note: I only used WikiBooks as a for-instance; currently, most subject areas seem a bit half-baked to be used in schools.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265273</id>
	<title>Re:online lectures, not books</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244560740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Schools are for parents just as much as for kids. How would a working set of parents deal with your suggestion of getting rid of schools?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Schools are for parents just as much as for kids .
How would a working set of parents deal with your suggestion of getting rid of schools ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Schools are for parents just as much as for kids.
How would a working set of parents deal with your suggestion of getting rid of schools?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265575</id>
	<title>Re:Dual-edged troll</title>
	<author>b4dc0d3r</author>
	<datestamp>1244562000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you a troll?  Or just confused?</p><p>Who writes in the margins?  Public schools at least try to minimize that, because the books get reused for several years.  You don't want next year's kids reading this year's notes.  Actually writing the notes is more of a benefit than reading something someone else wrote last year.  How does PDF inhibit the ability to think?</p><p>What's the difference to the brain in reading computer text vs. book text?  Are you thinking that students won't be tempted to visit iTunes or chat while reading a book?  Think twice - that notebook next to them is always on, they'll do it regardless.  Plus kids are getting used to doing things online - it makes sense to move away from textbooks as long as there is some sort of "appreciating of dead tree reading" being taught somewhere.  Maybe moving away from that old part of the brain (if that's not something you just pulled out of your butt) is a good thing and will benefit us.  Go make a study and let us know what you think with science behind you, not superstition.</p><blockquote><div><p>For people to adapt best to this change in learning mediums, they should start from a young age. You can expect old dogs to learn new tricks works, but does it work well enough?</p></div></blockquote><p>What?  This is public school, starting from a young age.  You are probably thinking this is college.  Not the case.</p><p>You are correct about one thing - some will benefit from this change, some won't.  Public education is like that, since you can't serve everyone's needs completely within a reasonable budget.</p><p>Your entire rant seems like a knee-jerk reaction to new technology.  Would you kindly read it again and tell me if I'm really all that wrong?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you a troll ?
Or just confused ? Who writes in the margins ?
Public schools at least try to minimize that , because the books get reused for several years .
You do n't want next year 's kids reading this year 's notes .
Actually writing the notes is more of a benefit than reading something someone else wrote last year .
How does PDF inhibit the ability to think ? What 's the difference to the brain in reading computer text vs. book text ?
Are you thinking that students wo n't be tempted to visit iTunes or chat while reading a book ?
Think twice - that notebook next to them is always on , they 'll do it regardless .
Plus kids are getting used to doing things online - it makes sense to move away from textbooks as long as there is some sort of " appreciating of dead tree reading " being taught somewhere .
Maybe moving away from that old part of the brain ( if that 's not something you just pulled out of your butt ) is a good thing and will benefit us .
Go make a study and let us know what you think with science behind you , not superstition.For people to adapt best to this change in learning mediums , they should start from a young age .
You can expect old dogs to learn new tricks works , but does it work well enough ? What ?
This is public school , starting from a young age .
You are probably thinking this is college .
Not the case.You are correct about one thing - some will benefit from this change , some wo n't .
Public education is like that , since you ca n't serve everyone 's needs completely within a reasonable budget.Your entire rant seems like a knee-jerk reaction to new technology .
Would you kindly read it again and tell me if I 'm really all that wrong ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you a troll?
Or just confused?Who writes in the margins?
Public schools at least try to minimize that, because the books get reused for several years.
You don't want next year's kids reading this year's notes.
Actually writing the notes is more of a benefit than reading something someone else wrote last year.
How does PDF inhibit the ability to think?What's the difference to the brain in reading computer text vs. book text?
Are you thinking that students won't be tempted to visit iTunes or chat while reading a book?
Think twice - that notebook next to them is always on, they'll do it regardless.
Plus kids are getting used to doing things online - it makes sense to move away from textbooks as long as there is some sort of "appreciating of dead tree reading" being taught somewhere.
Maybe moving away from that old part of the brain (if that's not something you just pulled out of your butt) is a good thing and will benefit us.
Go make a study and let us know what you think with science behind you, not superstition.For people to adapt best to this change in learning mediums, they should start from a young age.
You can expect old dogs to learn new tricks works, but does it work well enough?What?
This is public school, starting from a young age.
You are probably thinking this is college.
Not the case.You are correct about one thing - some will benefit from this change, some won't.
Public education is like that, since you can't serve everyone's needs completely within a reasonable budget.Your entire rant seems like a knee-jerk reaction to new technology.
Would you kindly read it again and tell me if I'm really all that wrong?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264941</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503</id>
	<title>Buy once - use many.</title>
	<author>0100010001010011</author>
	<datestamp>1244557200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're not expensive if you use them and amortized over quite a few years. I went to a Catholic elementary school. ALL of our books were hand-me-downs of Public school books and at least 2-3 editions old.</p><p>Unless I haven't been paying attention, Geometry, Calculus, WWII, the Roman Empire, Mitosis, etc hasn't changed much in the last few years. We were also required to have all books covered. They last quite a bit longer if you do this. I know that when I switched to a public school I had the EXACT same history book, it just happened to be 2 editions newer. Other than a few minor editorial changes, I didn't see anything different to my 7th grade mind.</p><p>The problem isn't that books are expensive, it's that they keep buying new ones when the old ones aren't obsolete. Moving online isn't going to help unless they use OSS textbooks. Book publishers are going to love this. Instead of buying a book every year for 120$ they're going to give you a wonderful discount of an online book every year for only 50$.</p><p>Use the books until covers are falling off. Mandate that book publishers MUST keep publishing an edition X years after it is first published. This will eliminate 'prebuys' to try and cover all books that are expected to be lost or damaged. It'll also let a school use the same book for 10, 15 years. A $100 text book over 15 years isn't too expensive.</p><p>Unfortunately 10-15 years is at least one election cycle and everyone will forget what the person they replaced did and it'll be all shiny text books for all "please think of the Children".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're not expensive if you use them and amortized over quite a few years .
I went to a Catholic elementary school .
ALL of our books were hand-me-downs of Public school books and at least 2-3 editions old.Unless I have n't been paying attention , Geometry , Calculus , WWII , the Roman Empire , Mitosis , etc has n't changed much in the last few years .
We were also required to have all books covered .
They last quite a bit longer if you do this .
I know that when I switched to a public school I had the EXACT same history book , it just happened to be 2 editions newer .
Other than a few minor editorial changes , I did n't see anything different to my 7th grade mind.The problem is n't that books are expensive , it 's that they keep buying new ones when the old ones are n't obsolete .
Moving online is n't going to help unless they use OSS textbooks .
Book publishers are going to love this .
Instead of buying a book every year for 120 $ they 're going to give you a wonderful discount of an online book every year for only 50 $ .Use the books until covers are falling off .
Mandate that book publishers MUST keep publishing an edition X years after it is first published .
This will eliminate 'prebuys ' to try and cover all books that are expected to be lost or damaged .
It 'll also let a school use the same book for 10 , 15 years .
A $ 100 text book over 15 years is n't too expensive.Unfortunately 10-15 years is at least one election cycle and everyone will forget what the person they replaced did and it 'll be all shiny text books for all " please think of the Children " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're not expensive if you use them and amortized over quite a few years.
I went to a Catholic elementary school.
ALL of our books were hand-me-downs of Public school books and at least 2-3 editions old.Unless I haven't been paying attention, Geometry, Calculus, WWII, the Roman Empire, Mitosis, etc hasn't changed much in the last few years.
We were also required to have all books covered.
They last quite a bit longer if you do this.
I know that when I switched to a public school I had the EXACT same history book, it just happened to be 2 editions newer.
Other than a few minor editorial changes, I didn't see anything different to my 7th grade mind.The problem isn't that books are expensive, it's that they keep buying new ones when the old ones aren't obsolete.
Moving online isn't going to help unless they use OSS textbooks.
Book publishers are going to love this.
Instead of buying a book every year for 120$ they're going to give you a wonderful discount of an online book every year for only 50$.Use the books until covers are falling off.
Mandate that book publishers MUST keep publishing an edition X years after it is first published.
This will eliminate 'prebuys' to try and cover all books that are expected to be lost or damaged.
It'll also let a school use the same book for 10, 15 years.
A $100 text book over 15 years isn't too expensive.Unfortunately 10-15 years is at least one election cycle and everyone will forget what the person they replaced did and it'll be all shiny text books for all "please think of the Children".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265191</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244560320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>sure not everybody can afford online access but many already have it. The schools can have online access for those that do not, then for those that cannot afford it you can still have the books available to those in need or you can print out a copy.  I am sure they have thought of this issue.  I am also sure that it will slowly get phased in.  There are always solutions to problems but going this route can save money that should be going to other things that can greatly increase the educational needs of the students.  For how intelligent<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. users are supposed to be I am greatly disappointed in the lack of creativity and pessimistic attitude.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>sure not everybody can afford online access but many already have it .
The schools can have online access for those that do not , then for those that can not afford it you can still have the books available to those in need or you can print out a copy .
I am sure they have thought of this issue .
I am also sure that it will slowly get phased in .
There are always solutions to problems but going this route can save money that should be going to other things that can greatly increase the educational needs of the students .
For how intelligent / .
users are supposed to be I am greatly disappointed in the lack of creativity and pessimistic attitude .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sure not everybody can afford online access but many already have it.
The schools can have online access for those that do not, then for those that cannot afford it you can still have the books available to those in need or you can print out a copy.
I am sure they have thought of this issue.
I am also sure that it will slowly get phased in.
There are always solutions to problems but going this route can save money that should be going to other things that can greatly increase the educational needs of the students.
For how intelligent /.
users are supposed to be I am greatly disappointed in the lack of creativity and pessimistic attitude.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264583</id>
	<title>Unfortunately</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244557560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The information which today is so readily available in digital or electronic form is usually worth exactly what you pay for it. Schools need access to unbiased, objective information that isn't simply being paid for by commercial shills.<p>If California wasn't basically broke I might believe this hype (not really), but a better solution might be to set up a cost effective textbook publishing operation. Publishing is one of the areas where you are dependent on heavy fixed plant which has well defined operating costs. Therefore, competition can tend to raise prices because of the costs involved in marketing, sales, administration and (ahem) kickbacks, which are multiplied across every entrant. How about competitive tender to write textbooks, and competitive tender to print them? And, when the concept is proven, competitive tender to make them available on-line?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The information which today is so readily available in digital or electronic form is usually worth exactly what you pay for it .
Schools need access to unbiased , objective information that is n't simply being paid for by commercial shills.If California was n't basically broke I might believe this hype ( not really ) , but a better solution might be to set up a cost effective textbook publishing operation .
Publishing is one of the areas where you are dependent on heavy fixed plant which has well defined operating costs .
Therefore , competition can tend to raise prices because of the costs involved in marketing , sales , administration and ( ahem ) kickbacks , which are multiplied across every entrant .
How about competitive tender to write textbooks , and competitive tender to print them ?
And , when the concept is proven , competitive tender to make them available on-line ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The information which today is so readily available in digital or electronic form is usually worth exactly what you pay for it.
Schools need access to unbiased, objective information that isn't simply being paid for by commercial shills.If California wasn't basically broke I might believe this hype (not really), but a better solution might be to set up a cost effective textbook publishing operation.
Publishing is one of the areas where you are dependent on heavy fixed plant which has well defined operating costs.
Therefore, competition can tend to raise prices because of the costs involved in marketing, sales, administration and (ahem) kickbacks, which are multiplied across every entrant.
How about competitive tender to write textbooks, and competitive tender to print them?
And, when the concept is proven, competitive tender to make them available on-line?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265743</id>
	<title>Will work for grade schools</title>
	<author>foniksonik</author>
	<datestamp>1244562780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In grade school you are not expected to carry books home. They give out Readers or Workbooks which are cheaply printed and have just the take home materials in them. The textbooks stay in the class and get pulled out for reference and in-class use.</p><p>There is no good case for Textbooks at the grade school level.</p><p>California needs to negotiate a periodic license fee for a variety of material with optional updates. Purchase interactive white-boards which are simply big LCD displays with fairly cheap touch screen capability (doesn't need to be very accurate). Display lessons and material on these... with handouts as needed for supplementation and home study.</p><p>Grade school kids don't need textbooks at all. They need good teachers who can engage them in the lessons.</p><p>Junior High/Middle schools also do not need Textbooks but do need some form of personal access. Here they should have built-in units in the desks. Scratch resistant good touchscreens and a durable keyboard pad with a very basic OS that can handle accessing media, local network resources and a word processor nothing more. There is no access to the OS itself except the login prompt.</p><p>They don't need full access to the internet (or filtered access). Set up a proxy server that pulls in copies of various websites (wikipedia, discovery channel, etc) on a weekly basis. The teacher gets the same whiteboard but with full access to the internet to pull up current events or additional materials.</p><p>Again, handouts go home. These can be bulk printed to reduce costs each semester with a local printer. Each child still has the same access to learning materials as they've always had based on their families priorities. They can still stay after school to use the media desks, the library (with additional media desks) or ask the teacher questions.</p><p>High School takes Junior High and simply swaps out the media and provides more applications. High School doesn't need anything additional - never has. There are still computer labs for doing things on a computer - these are not computers, they are media desks.</p><p>Savings would include the Textbooks, all test taking materials and any costs related to Scantron type machines, any multi-media devices, a whole host of games and other learning materials that could be applications rather than physical items.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In grade school you are not expected to carry books home .
They give out Readers or Workbooks which are cheaply printed and have just the take home materials in them .
The textbooks stay in the class and get pulled out for reference and in-class use.There is no good case for Textbooks at the grade school level.California needs to negotiate a periodic license fee for a variety of material with optional updates .
Purchase interactive white-boards which are simply big LCD displays with fairly cheap touch screen capability ( does n't need to be very accurate ) .
Display lessons and material on these... with handouts as needed for supplementation and home study.Grade school kids do n't need textbooks at all .
They need good teachers who can engage them in the lessons.Junior High/Middle schools also do not need Textbooks but do need some form of personal access .
Here they should have built-in units in the desks .
Scratch resistant good touchscreens and a durable keyboard pad with a very basic OS that can handle accessing media , local network resources and a word processor nothing more .
There is no access to the OS itself except the login prompt.They do n't need full access to the internet ( or filtered access ) .
Set up a proxy server that pulls in copies of various websites ( wikipedia , discovery channel , etc ) on a weekly basis .
The teacher gets the same whiteboard but with full access to the internet to pull up current events or additional materials.Again , handouts go home .
These can be bulk printed to reduce costs each semester with a local printer .
Each child still has the same access to learning materials as they 've always had based on their families priorities .
They can still stay after school to use the media desks , the library ( with additional media desks ) or ask the teacher questions.High School takes Junior High and simply swaps out the media and provides more applications .
High School does n't need anything additional - never has .
There are still computer labs for doing things on a computer - these are not computers , they are media desks.Savings would include the Textbooks , all test taking materials and any costs related to Scantron type machines , any multi-media devices , a whole host of games and other learning materials that could be applications rather than physical items .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In grade school you are not expected to carry books home.
They give out Readers or Workbooks which are cheaply printed and have just the take home materials in them.
The textbooks stay in the class and get pulled out for reference and in-class use.There is no good case for Textbooks at the grade school level.California needs to negotiate a periodic license fee for a variety of material with optional updates.
Purchase interactive white-boards which are simply big LCD displays with fairly cheap touch screen capability (doesn't need to be very accurate).
Display lessons and material on these... with handouts as needed for supplementation and home study.Grade school kids don't need textbooks at all.
They need good teachers who can engage them in the lessons.Junior High/Middle schools also do not need Textbooks but do need some form of personal access.
Here they should have built-in units in the desks.
Scratch resistant good touchscreens and a durable keyboard pad with a very basic OS that can handle accessing media, local network resources and a word processor nothing more.
There is no access to the OS itself except the login prompt.They don't need full access to the internet (or filtered access).
Set up a proxy server that pulls in copies of various websites (wikipedia, discovery channel, etc) on a weekly basis.
The teacher gets the same whiteboard but with full access to the internet to pull up current events or additional materials.Again, handouts go home.
These can be bulk printed to reduce costs each semester with a local printer.
Each child still has the same access to learning materials as they've always had based on their families priorities.
They can still stay after school to use the media desks, the library (with additional media desks) or ask the teacher questions.High School takes Junior High and simply swaps out the media and provides more applications.
High School doesn't need anything additional - never has.
There are still computer labs for doing things on a computer - these are not computers, they are media desks.Savings would include the Textbooks, all test taking materials and any costs related to Scantron type machines, any multi-media devices, a whole host of games and other learning materials that could be applications rather than physical items.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266277</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>somersault</author>
	<datestamp>1244564760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>if they are linux, doing something like "rm -rf<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/"</p></div><p>Probably nobody, since it'll do fsck all if they aren't root - they might lose their homework or something but that's their own fault.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>if they are linux , doing something like " rm -rf / " Probably nobody , since it 'll do fsck all if they are n't root - they might lose their homework or something but that 's their own fault .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if they are linux, doing something like "rm -rf /"Probably nobody, since it'll do fsck all if they aren't root - they might lose their homework or something but that's their own fault.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265297</id>
	<title>Re:Dual-edged sword</title>
	<author>ndavis</author>
	<datestamp>1244560800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I see this as a quick fix, but it's using some strong medicine.</p><p>Putting it into<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.pdf form (or whatever form they might fancy) will only inhibit the ability to think.  You can't write down notes in the margins, even if you can highlight sections of text.  This is analogous to freehand drawing vs computer aided drawing (creativity vs productivity).</p>  </div><p>

When I was in K-12 I was not allowed to write in my book unless I paid a fee which was normally 75\% of the cost of the book.  I found this out after I started writing in one of my books during class because the teacher gave extra insight to the reading.  After my parents paid I didn't get to keep the book and I was yelled at so I never wrote in a book again.
<br> <br>
I think this would work just fine if the schools work like the way I remember.  Of course I would think the school system would need to provide some sort of portable reader in case they need the book in the classroom.
<br> <br>
Also this would eliminate another current problem of having so many books kids can't even carry bookbags on their shoulders anymore.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I see this as a quick fix , but it 's using some strong medicine.Putting it into .pdf form ( or whatever form they might fancy ) will only inhibit the ability to think .
You ca n't write down notes in the margins , even if you can highlight sections of text .
This is analogous to freehand drawing vs computer aided drawing ( creativity vs productivity ) .
When I was in K-12 I was not allowed to write in my book unless I paid a fee which was normally 75 \ % of the cost of the book .
I found this out after I started writing in one of my books during class because the teacher gave extra insight to the reading .
After my parents paid I did n't get to keep the book and I was yelled at so I never wrote in a book again .
I think this would work just fine if the schools work like the way I remember .
Of course I would think the school system would need to provide some sort of portable reader in case they need the book in the classroom .
Also this would eliminate another current problem of having so many books kids ca n't even carry bookbags on their shoulders anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see this as a quick fix, but it's using some strong medicine.Putting it into .pdf form (or whatever form they might fancy) will only inhibit the ability to think.
You can't write down notes in the margins, even if you can highlight sections of text.
This is analogous to freehand drawing vs computer aided drawing (creativity vs productivity).
When I was in K-12 I was not allowed to write in my book unless I paid a fee which was normally 75\% of the cost of the book.
I found this out after I started writing in one of my books during class because the teacher gave extra insight to the reading.
After my parents paid I didn't get to keep the book and I was yelled at so I never wrote in a book again.
I think this would work just fine if the schools work like the way I remember.
Of course I would think the school system would need to provide some sort of portable reader in case they need the book in the classroom.
Also this would eliminate another current problem of having so many books kids can't even carry bookbags on their shoulders anymore.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264941</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265599</id>
	<title>One way to do it.</title>
	<author>spacerog</author>
	<datestamp>1244562120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not all textbook companies are money grubbing thieves and some Professors are starting to wake up to that. This is my textbook for my Business Finance Class I am taking at <a href="http://continuinged.uml.edu/" title="uml.edu">U Mass Lowell Online</a> [uml.edu] <p>
<a href="http://www.textbookmedia.com/Products/ViewProduct.aspx?id=3239" title="textbookmedia.com">Fundementals of Financial management</a> [textbookmedia.com]
</p><p>
Basically a free book with ads online, a printable PDF version for a small fee ($9.95), a slightly larger fee ($14.95) without the ads and a modest printing cost for the full book ($24.95).
</p><p>
I got the printed book version. Pretty nice book to. It has no bar code but it does have an ISBN and it is marked "Not for Resale" But at under $30 including shipping I don't really care if I can resell it or not.
</p><p>
This business model seems to be new in the area of text books but I like it and hope it takes off.

- SR</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not all textbook companies are money grubbing thieves and some Professors are starting to wake up to that .
This is my textbook for my Business Finance Class I am taking at U Mass Lowell Online [ uml.edu ] Fundementals of Financial management [ textbookmedia.com ] Basically a free book with ads online , a printable PDF version for a small fee ( $ 9.95 ) , a slightly larger fee ( $ 14.95 ) without the ads and a modest printing cost for the full book ( $ 24.95 ) .
I got the printed book version .
Pretty nice book to .
It has no bar code but it does have an ISBN and it is marked " Not for Resale " But at under $ 30 including shipping I do n't really care if I can resell it or not .
This business model seems to be new in the area of text books but I like it and hope it takes off .
- SR</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not all textbook companies are money grubbing thieves and some Professors are starting to wake up to that.
This is my textbook for my Business Finance Class I am taking at U Mass Lowell Online [uml.edu] 
Fundementals of Financial management [textbookmedia.com]

Basically a free book with ads online, a printable PDF version for a small fee ($9.95), a slightly larger fee ($14.95) without the ads and a modest printing cost for the full book ($24.95).
I got the printed book version.
Pretty nice book to.
It has no bar code but it does have an ISBN and it is marked "Not for Resale" But at under $30 including shipping I don't really care if I can resell it or not.
This business model seems to be new in the area of text books but I like it and hope it takes off.
- SR</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28269443</id>
	<title>Why do we even need textbooks?</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1244576040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can understand some subjects benefitting from textbooks but things like math can be taught from a blackboard by a competent teacher (I guess that might be one obstacle though). There are plenty of free online worksheet generators, so that shouldn't be a problem either.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can understand some subjects benefitting from textbooks but things like math can be taught from a blackboard by a competent teacher ( I guess that might be one obstacle though ) .
There are plenty of free online worksheet generators , so that should n't be a problem either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can understand some subjects benefitting from textbooks but things like math can be taught from a blackboard by a competent teacher (I guess that might be one obstacle though).
There are plenty of free online worksheet generators, so that shouldn't be a problem either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268451</id>
	<title>Perfect!</title>
	<author>ThatsNotPudding</author>
	<datestamp>1244572740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What better way to conduct revisionist history - with literally no paper trail!  Someone's in the running for a Big Brother Lifetime Achievement award for this idea.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What better way to conduct revisionist history - with literally no paper trail !
Someone 's in the running for a Big Brother Lifetime Achievement award for this idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What better way to conduct revisionist history - with literally no paper trail!
Someone's in the running for a Big Brother Lifetime Achievement award for this idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264533</id>
	<title>Good initiative, may take time to be efficient</title>
	<author>youn</author>
	<datestamp>1244557320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it's a wonderful initiative.... and that we should move towards a way to have all human knowledge available to the collective in such a way that anyone from anyplace can learn about anything... with a global competition to provide the best compilation of knowledge.</p><p>That said, it'll probably take a while...<br>1) to change people's mind about e-books<br>2) to get it in a form suitable for people to read.. with promising alternatives appearing such as flexible displays, e - ink, etc<br>3) to organize the knowledge with the efficiency of your local library... yes, you can google, but nothing beats browsing the shelves of a library if you're looking for material... and it's nowhere as neatly organized (in most libraries at least)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's a wonderful initiative.... and that we should move towards a way to have all human knowledge available to the collective in such a way that anyone from anyplace can learn about anything... with a global competition to provide the best compilation of knowledge.That said , it 'll probably take a while...1 ) to change people 's mind about e-books2 ) to get it in a form suitable for people to read.. with promising alternatives appearing such as flexible displays , e - ink , etc3 ) to organize the knowledge with the efficiency of your local library... yes , you can google , but nothing beats browsing the shelves of a library if you 're looking for material... and it 's nowhere as neatly organized ( in most libraries at least )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's a wonderful initiative.... and that we should move towards a way to have all human knowledge available to the collective in such a way that anyone from anyplace can learn about anything... with a global competition to provide the best compilation of knowledge.That said, it'll probably take a while...1) to change people's mind about e-books2) to get it in a form suitable for people to read.. with promising alternatives appearing such as flexible displays, e - ink, etc3) to organize the knowledge with the efficiency of your local library... yes, you can google, but nothing beats browsing the shelves of a library if you're looking for material... and it's nowhere as neatly organized (in most libraries at least)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265323</id>
	<title>Textbooks and Oil - Same level of greed.</title>
	<author>geekmux</author>
	<datestamp>1244560860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The way I see it, textbooks will never go away.  Much like our dependency on oil, textbooks help fuel the profits way too much for ALL involved.</p><p>Manufacturers wouldn't make them unless there was serious profit to be had, or major demand.  Today, there is both.</p><p>Schools wouldn't buy them unless there was serious profit, to be had, which any student who found themselves pissed off in the book buyback line when offered a paltry sum of $10 for a book they paid $75 3 months ago.</p><p>Sorry, just don't see it happening until Congress outlaws the use of trees for printing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The way I see it , textbooks will never go away .
Much like our dependency on oil , textbooks help fuel the profits way too much for ALL involved.Manufacturers would n't make them unless there was serious profit to be had , or major demand .
Today , there is both.Schools would n't buy them unless there was serious profit , to be had , which any student who found themselves pissed off in the book buyback line when offered a paltry sum of $ 10 for a book they paid $ 75 3 months ago.Sorry , just do n't see it happening until Congress outlaws the use of trees for printing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The way I see it, textbooks will never go away.
Much like our dependency on oil, textbooks help fuel the profits way too much for ALL involved.Manufacturers wouldn't make them unless there was serious profit to be had, or major demand.
Today, there is both.Schools wouldn't buy them unless there was serious profit, to be had, which any student who found themselves pissed off in the book buyback line when offered a paltry sum of $10 for a book they paid $75 3 months ago.Sorry, just don't see it happening until Congress outlaws the use of trees for printing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268241</id>
	<title>Pushing Tech</title>
	<author>Idiomatick</author>
	<datestamp>1244572020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't do it California! We all know the only reason the Governator is pushing tech like this is to get more information online for skynet to absorb. And when skynet takes the internet from us we will become hopelessly uneducated and helpless to resist.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't do it California !
We all know the only reason the Governator is pushing tech like this is to get more information online for skynet to absorb .
And when skynet takes the internet from us we will become hopelessly uneducated and helpless to resist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't do it California!
We all know the only reason the Governator is pushing tech like this is to get more information online for skynet to absorb.
And when skynet takes the internet from us we will become hopelessly uneducated and helpless to resist.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265775</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>AceofSpades19</author>
	<datestamp>1244562900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>(or if they are linux, doing something like "rm -rf<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/")).</p></div><p>Just don't give the root access, then they can't do that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( or if they are linux , doing something like " rm -rf / " ) ) .Just do n't give the root access , then they ca n't do that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(or if they are linux, doing something like "rm -rf /")).Just don't give the root access, then they can't do that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265077</id>
	<title>History gets longer every year</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1244559780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Unless I haven't been paying attention, Geometry [...] hasn't changed much in the last few years</p></div><p>A proof of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler\_conjecture" title="wikipedia.org">Kepler conjecture</a> [wikipedia.org] (face-centered cubic is the closest packing of spheres) showed up about a decade ago.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Calculus</p></div><p>There have been several different formulations of calculus in terms of different infinitesimal frameworks, in addition to the traditional limits framework.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>WWII</p></div><p>History gets longer every year: Cold War (Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Apollo program, breakup and reunification of Germany), Woodstock, Bosnia, WTO, EU, World Trade Center, Afghanistan, Iraq. And we appear to be heading for a Korean War II. And there's still research into <em>how</em> each side won or lost.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless I have n't been paying attention , Geometry [ ... ] has n't changed much in the last few yearsA proof of the Kepler conjecture [ wikipedia.org ] ( face-centered cubic is the closest packing of spheres ) showed up about a decade ago.CalculusThere have been several different formulations of calculus in terms of different infinitesimal frameworks , in addition to the traditional limits framework.WWIIHistory gets longer every year : Cold War ( Korea , Vietnam , Cuba , Apollo program , breakup and reunification of Germany ) , Woodstock , Bosnia , WTO , EU , World Trade Center , Afghanistan , Iraq .
And we appear to be heading for a Korean War II .
And there 's still research into how each side won or lost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless I haven't been paying attention, Geometry [...] hasn't changed much in the last few yearsA proof of the Kepler conjecture [wikipedia.org] (face-centered cubic is the closest packing of spheres) showed up about a decade ago.CalculusThere have been several different formulations of calculus in terms of different infinitesimal frameworks, in addition to the traditional limits framework.WWIIHistory gets longer every year: Cold War (Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Apollo program, breakup and reunification of Germany), Woodstock, Bosnia, WTO, EU, World Trade Center, Afghanistan, Iraq.
And we appear to be heading for a Korean War II.
And there's still research into how each side won or lost.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266543</id>
	<title>Re:No its not...</title>
	<author>edalytical</author>
	<datestamp>1244565960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're probably not cross platform. I just bought some chapters from a well known eTextbook provider. Not only do they only work on Windows and Mac, but you need Adobe Reader &amp; a plugin (SealedMedia or something stupid like that). To top it off you can't print, preview a print, export text or even copy text and there is a *&amp;$\%ing watermark in the middle of every page (directly under text that you're supposed to read). At least I could read the chapters on two different device at the same time with the same login information, but I'm sure they'll seal that hole once kids start sharing books.</p><p>Be that as it may, my concern isn't about DRM'd textbooks. I'm more concerned about doublespeak like "the internet is the best way to learn in classrooms." Seriously??? What are kids going to go to class just to logon to the internet? Don't computers cost more than book? Or will every kid be required to bring their own computer?</p><p>Arnold is really just grasping at straws trying to justify bad decisions while frantically working on his budget.</p><p>I think the textbook industry is as bad as the next guy, but this won't fix it. It will make it worse. When textbooks go electronic you won't be buying textbooks, you'll be renting them. The textbooks will expire after one semester you'll have to rent them again the next semester.  When new editions come out you'll have to rent the new edition even if you're okay with being an edition or two behind because you will not be able to use the old edition -- it will expire and no longer open.</p><p>Textbooks will be cheaper to produce if they are electronic so the textbooks publishers will have higher profit margins for new editions. Think of semester turnarounds and not 2-3 year turnarounds. I'm saying, and you can quote me, that they'll release new edition more frequently than ever.</p><p>Did you really like that textbook for your science class? Well too bad you can't keep it. It is no longer physical property. You'll never be able to refer back to the old edition because, like I've been emphasizing, they'll have expired.</p><p>The trouble with textbooks isn't the format. Bound books are just fine and I'm okay with electronic version that supplement the bound books for easily carrying on a laptop or for textual searching, etc. The real problem with textbooks is the constant revenue stream for publishers by release new $150 editions every few years with minor changes. That and the fact that the textbooks are so full of irrelevant graphics, sidebars, asides, and pointless information that the are not generally useful. The other issue is that problem sets and questions are included in the textbook instead of as a separate plain paper packet. The publishers can just change the order of the problems to force students to keep up with new editions.</p><p>I've personally found that any textbook has about one hundred typed pages of relevant useful information. If textbook publishers would just publish the useful informations and charge about $10 for them this problem would be solved.</p><p>It won't happen until people like Arnold, parents, students, schools and teachers start looking for real solutions instead of blindly thinking that technology is going to save us all. Technology is not some holy grail. Many universities are figuring that out after years of paying Blackboard for the online classroom, but now they're stuck paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in licensing fees because getting rid of it would mean redesigning courses and retraining lazy technology illiterate teachers that have come to rely on the the system. Meanwhile none of the students are getting the educations they deserve or are paying for.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're probably not cross platform .
I just bought some chapters from a well known eTextbook provider .
Not only do they only work on Windows and Mac , but you need Adobe Reader &amp; a plugin ( SealedMedia or something stupid like that ) .
To top it off you ca n't print , preview a print , export text or even copy text and there is a * &amp; $ \ % ing watermark in the middle of every page ( directly under text that you 're supposed to read ) .
At least I could read the chapters on two different device at the same time with the same login information , but I 'm sure they 'll seal that hole once kids start sharing books.Be that as it may , my concern is n't about DRM 'd textbooks .
I 'm more concerned about doublespeak like " the internet is the best way to learn in classrooms .
" Seriously ? ? ?
What are kids going to go to class just to logon to the internet ?
Do n't computers cost more than book ?
Or will every kid be required to bring their own computer ? Arnold is really just grasping at straws trying to justify bad decisions while frantically working on his budget.I think the textbook industry is as bad as the next guy , but this wo n't fix it .
It will make it worse .
When textbooks go electronic you wo n't be buying textbooks , you 'll be renting them .
The textbooks will expire after one semester you 'll have to rent them again the next semester .
When new editions come out you 'll have to rent the new edition even if you 're okay with being an edition or two behind because you will not be able to use the old edition -- it will expire and no longer open.Textbooks will be cheaper to produce if they are electronic so the textbooks publishers will have higher profit margins for new editions .
Think of semester turnarounds and not 2-3 year turnarounds .
I 'm saying , and you can quote me , that they 'll release new edition more frequently than ever.Did you really like that textbook for your science class ?
Well too bad you ca n't keep it .
It is no longer physical property .
You 'll never be able to refer back to the old edition because , like I 've been emphasizing , they 'll have expired.The trouble with textbooks is n't the format .
Bound books are just fine and I 'm okay with electronic version that supplement the bound books for easily carrying on a laptop or for textual searching , etc .
The real problem with textbooks is the constant revenue stream for publishers by release new $ 150 editions every few years with minor changes .
That and the fact that the textbooks are so full of irrelevant graphics , sidebars , asides , and pointless information that the are not generally useful .
The other issue is that problem sets and questions are included in the textbook instead of as a separate plain paper packet .
The publishers can just change the order of the problems to force students to keep up with new editions.I 've personally found that any textbook has about one hundred typed pages of relevant useful information .
If textbook publishers would just publish the useful informations and charge about $ 10 for them this problem would be solved.It wo n't happen until people like Arnold , parents , students , schools and teachers start looking for real solutions instead of blindly thinking that technology is going to save us all .
Technology is not some holy grail .
Many universities are figuring that out after years of paying Blackboard for the online classroom , but now they 're stuck paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in licensing fees because getting rid of it would mean redesigning courses and retraining lazy technology illiterate teachers that have come to rely on the the system .
Meanwhile none of the students are getting the educations they deserve or are paying for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're probably not cross platform.
I just bought some chapters from a well known eTextbook provider.
Not only do they only work on Windows and Mac, but you need Adobe Reader &amp; a plugin (SealedMedia or something stupid like that).
To top it off you can't print, preview a print, export text or even copy text and there is a *&amp;$\%ing watermark in the middle of every page (directly under text that you're supposed to read).
At least I could read the chapters on two different device at the same time with the same login information, but I'm sure they'll seal that hole once kids start sharing books.Be that as it may, my concern isn't about DRM'd textbooks.
I'm more concerned about doublespeak like "the internet is the best way to learn in classrooms.
" Seriously???
What are kids going to go to class just to logon to the internet?
Don't computers cost more than book?
Or will every kid be required to bring their own computer?Arnold is really just grasping at straws trying to justify bad decisions while frantically working on his budget.I think the textbook industry is as bad as the next guy, but this won't fix it.
It will make it worse.
When textbooks go electronic you won't be buying textbooks, you'll be renting them.
The textbooks will expire after one semester you'll have to rent them again the next semester.
When new editions come out you'll have to rent the new edition even if you're okay with being an edition or two behind because you will not be able to use the old edition -- it will expire and no longer open.Textbooks will be cheaper to produce if they are electronic so the textbooks publishers will have higher profit margins for new editions.
Think of semester turnarounds and not 2-3 year turnarounds.
I'm saying, and you can quote me, that they'll release new edition more frequently than ever.Did you really like that textbook for your science class?
Well too bad you can't keep it.
It is no longer physical property.
You'll never be able to refer back to the old edition because, like I've been emphasizing, they'll have expired.The trouble with textbooks isn't the format.
Bound books are just fine and I'm okay with electronic version that supplement the bound books for easily carrying on a laptop or for textual searching, etc.
The real problem with textbooks is the constant revenue stream for publishers by release new $150 editions every few years with minor changes.
That and the fact that the textbooks are so full of irrelevant graphics, sidebars, asides, and pointless information that the are not generally useful.
The other issue is that problem sets and questions are included in the textbook instead of as a separate plain paper packet.
The publishers can just change the order of the problems to force students to keep up with new editions.I've personally found that any textbook has about one hundred typed pages of relevant useful information.
If textbook publishers would just publish the useful informations and charge about $10 for them this problem would be solved.It won't happen until people like Arnold, parents, students, schools and teachers start looking for real solutions instead of blindly thinking that technology is going to save us all.
Technology is not some holy grail.
Many universities are figuring that out after years of paying Blackboard for the online classroom, but now they're stuck paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in licensing fees because getting rid of it would mean redesigning courses and retraining lazy technology illiterate teachers that have come to rely on the the system.
Meanwhile none of the students are getting the educations they deserve or are paying for.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264803</id>
	<title>LOLBooks!!!!</title>
	<author>frank\_adrian314159</author>
	<datestamp>1244558580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I cann haz siense?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I cann haz siense ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I cann haz siense?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264897</id>
	<title>Why does it have to be either-or?</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1244558940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How much does it cost to actually print a textbook?  For the time being, paper books are superior as a display medium, and it doesn't look like that's going to change in the next five years.  (ten... maybe?)</p><p>But there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to print the online texts.  Heck, a state as large as California ought to be able to commission its own textbooks as works for hire and print as many as they want.</p><p>If the marginal cost of actually manufacturing the book is so close to the price they're paying, then I really don't see how moving to online books helps in the near term, electronic devices for displaying texts just don't stand up to the kind of abuse that k-8 students will heap upon them without even realizing it.  If the prices really are close, though, then maybe the textbook companies really aren't ripping them off...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How much does it cost to actually print a textbook ?
For the time being , paper books are superior as a display medium , and it does n't look like that 's going to change in the next five years .
( ten... maybe ?
) But there 's no reason why they should n't be able to print the online texts .
Heck , a state as large as California ought to be able to commission its own textbooks as works for hire and print as many as they want.If the marginal cost of actually manufacturing the book is so close to the price they 're paying , then I really do n't see how moving to online books helps in the near term , electronic devices for displaying texts just do n't stand up to the kind of abuse that k-8 students will heap upon them without even realizing it .
If the prices really are close , though , then maybe the textbook companies really are n't ripping them off.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much does it cost to actually print a textbook?
For the time being, paper books are superior as a display medium, and it doesn't look like that's going to change in the next five years.
(ten... maybe?
)But there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to print the online texts.
Heck, a state as large as California ought to be able to commission its own textbooks as works for hire and print as many as they want.If the marginal cost of actually manufacturing the book is so close to the price they're paying, then I really don't see how moving to online books helps in the near term, electronic devices for displaying texts just don't stand up to the kind of abuse that k-8 students will heap upon them without even realizing it.
If the prices really are close, though, then maybe the textbook companies really aren't ripping them off...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266235</id>
	<title>Re:Go Arnold!</title>
	<author>skeeto</author>
	<datestamp>1244564580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=816tyzS-y78" title="youtube.com">He was already been hopelessly fighting it</a> [youtube.com] himself.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He was already been hopelessly fighting it [ youtube.com ] himself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He was already been hopelessly fighting it [youtube.com] himself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264437</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265945</id>
	<title>Screw Texas</title>
	<author>PinchDuck</author>
	<datestamp>1244563500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With any luck, this will minimize the damage that Texas can do to the science curriculum of schools nation wide. You want stupid shit in your science book? Click the stupid shit radio button. You want real science? Click the real science radio button. We will be reporting your choice to national accreditation agencies. Have a nice school year.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With any luck , this will minimize the damage that Texas can do to the science curriculum of schools nation wide .
You want stupid shit in your science book ?
Click the stupid shit radio button .
You want real science ?
Click the real science radio button .
We will be reporting your choice to national accreditation agencies .
Have a nice school year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With any luck, this will minimize the damage that Texas can do to the science curriculum of schools nation wide.
You want stupid shit in your science book?
Click the stupid shit radio button.
You want real science?
Click the real science radio button.
We will be reporting your choice to national accreditation agencies.
Have a nice school year.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264883</id>
	<title>Re:Go Arnold!</title>
	<author>beowulfcluster</author>
	<datestamp>1244558880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I nearly fell out of my chair parsing it as him giving the music industry as an example of someone who HAS adapted quickly. I think the newspaper industry in general has been pretty good at it(?).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I nearly fell out of my chair parsing it as him giving the music industry as an example of someone who HAS adapted quickly .
I think the newspaper industry in general has been pretty good at it ( ?
) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I nearly fell out of my chair parsing it as him giving the music industry as an example of someone who HAS adapted quickly.
I think the newspaper industry in general has been pretty good at it(?
).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264437</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264551</id>
	<title>That's supposed to be a good idea?</title>
	<author>\_merlin</author>
	<datestamp>1244557440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So how do you take the approved textbook into a restricted-text exam?  How do you make notes in the margin?  Are you supposed to print out relevant parts and bring them to use in class?  When you're finished with it, can you re-sell it if you don't need it?  What if you want to keep it?  Have you bought it, or does the license stay with the school?  I'd still rather stick with paper textbooks.  It's great to have access to online reference material, but that's not what a textbook is for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So how do you take the approved textbook into a restricted-text exam ?
How do you make notes in the margin ?
Are you supposed to print out relevant parts and bring them to use in class ?
When you 're finished with it , can you re-sell it if you do n't need it ?
What if you want to keep it ?
Have you bought it , or does the license stay with the school ?
I 'd still rather stick with paper textbooks .
It 's great to have access to online reference material , but that 's not what a textbook is for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So how do you take the approved textbook into a restricted-text exam?
How do you make notes in the margin?
Are you supposed to print out relevant parts and bring them to use in class?
When you're finished with it, can you re-sell it if you don't need it?
What if you want to keep it?
Have you bought it, or does the license stay with the school?
I'd still rather stick with paper textbooks.
It's great to have access to online reference material, but that's not what a textbook is for.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266957</id>
	<title>It would be logical</title>
	<author>The Cisco Kid</author>
	<datestamp>1244567160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>, and just as valid, If they replaced the 'analog' printed books with digital CD/DVD media, with the book 'content' in a standards-based, open format.</p><p>While still having the benefit of massive cost-savings in terms of paper and binding, and printing, as well as not being 'heavy' (I'm sure the books for an entire semester would easily fit on a handful of DVDROMs), there would also be the benefits of:</p><p>1. The student actually gets to keep the books after their term ends, or optionally sell them to an incoming student.<br>2. The college isn't forcing any specific brands of software or operating systems on students<br>3. Far easier to make a backup copy, in case the originally issued discs get damaged.</p><p>Now of course, the book publishers may not like this, because they don't get to charge over and over for the same content.<br>As a solution, I suggest that instead of having to separately purchase books, an amount be added to the tuition (not nearly as much as the current purchase-new cost of printed books, since the publisher would be avoiding all those costs) to cover 'book fees' for each student, which gives them the right to access any book which they either currently taking a class for, and once the have taken the class gives them the right to keep a copy (of that specific edition) afterwards. They can either pay media(blank DVD) and duplication costs to a college service, or they can do it themselves. There's no loss with them giving copies to new students, because new students will have paid the fees anyway. There's no worry them selling them anywhere else, since who buys textbooks except college students?</p><p>This would make sense, while priving benefits to the students, the publishers, and the colleges. Unfortunately, that pretty much guarantees nothing like it will ever see the light of day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>, and just as valid , If they replaced the 'analog ' printed books with digital CD/DVD media , with the book 'content ' in a standards-based , open format.While still having the benefit of massive cost-savings in terms of paper and binding , and printing , as well as not being 'heavy ' ( I 'm sure the books for an entire semester would easily fit on a handful of DVDROMs ) , there would also be the benefits of : 1 .
The student actually gets to keep the books after their term ends , or optionally sell them to an incoming student.2 .
The college is n't forcing any specific brands of software or operating systems on students3 .
Far easier to make a backup copy , in case the originally issued discs get damaged.Now of course , the book publishers may not like this , because they do n't get to charge over and over for the same content.As a solution , I suggest that instead of having to separately purchase books , an amount be added to the tuition ( not nearly as much as the current purchase-new cost of printed books , since the publisher would be avoiding all those costs ) to cover 'book fees ' for each student , which gives them the right to access any book which they either currently taking a class for , and once the have taken the class gives them the right to keep a copy ( of that specific edition ) afterwards .
They can either pay media ( blank DVD ) and duplication costs to a college service , or they can do it themselves .
There 's no loss with them giving copies to new students , because new students will have paid the fees anyway .
There 's no worry them selling them anywhere else , since who buys textbooks except college students ? This would make sense , while priving benefits to the students , the publishers , and the colleges .
Unfortunately , that pretty much guarantees nothing like it will ever see the light of day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>, and just as valid, If they replaced the 'analog' printed books with digital CD/DVD media, with the book 'content' in a standards-based, open format.While still having the benefit of massive cost-savings in terms of paper and binding, and printing, as well as not being 'heavy' (I'm sure the books for an entire semester would easily fit on a handful of DVDROMs), there would also be the benefits of:1.
The student actually gets to keep the books after their term ends, or optionally sell them to an incoming student.2.
The college isn't forcing any specific brands of software or operating systems on students3.
Far easier to make a backup copy, in case the originally issued discs get damaged.Now of course, the book publishers may not like this, because they don't get to charge over and over for the same content.As a solution, I suggest that instead of having to separately purchase books, an amount be added to the tuition (not nearly as much as the current purchase-new cost of printed books, since the publisher would be avoiding all those costs) to cover 'book fees' for each student, which gives them the right to access any book which they either currently taking a class for, and once the have taken the class gives them the right to keep a copy (of that specific edition) afterwards.
They can either pay media(blank DVD) and duplication costs to a college service, or they can do it themselves.
There's no loss with them giving copies to new students, because new students will have paid the fees anyway.
There's no worry them selling them anywhere else, since who buys textbooks except college students?This would make sense, while priving benefits to the students, the publishers, and the colleges.
Unfortunately, that pretty much guarantees nothing like it will ever see the light of day.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264427</id>
	<title>OLPC</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244556840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I haven't lived in California since 2001 but can someone tell me if they already supply every child with a laptop? If not, how do ebooks work for those without?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have n't lived in California since 2001 but can someone tell me if they already supply every child with a laptop ?
If not , how do ebooks work for those without ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I haven't lived in California since 2001 but can someone tell me if they already supply every child with a laptop?
If not, how do ebooks work for those without?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264927</id>
	<title>Online Textbooks Just Aren't ready</title>
	<author>felix71</author>
	<datestamp>1244559060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm working on my PhD in History, and to help pay the bills I teach both classroom and online history courses.  The institution I teach online courses for recently moved from requiring students to purchase the course text to providing them an online version with the class, while offering students the option to purchase custom hard copies.  Students can purchase the full, hardback, color version, can select monochrome versions, or get paperback or plastic comb bindings.  Sounds great, right?</p><p>Not so much.</p><p>The vendor provides students with a login ID and password for each student to use, which gets them access to the book for six months after the end of the course.  The textbook website has integrated learning tools, skills assessments, maps, images, audio and video, etc... along with the text, which is properly paginated to go with my desk copy.  Again, this stuff all sounds great.  In practice, there are problems.</p><p>Students complain that it takes them double or triple the time to do their reading.  Sending them login ID and password was a catastrophe, because they were provided by email, and not all students gave us the correct email address or knew that they had a school-supplied email address.  This led the school to just embed a link to the text in our courses, which killed much of the interactivity built into the online text.</p><p>This ignores other problems.  Student computer type and age, patch level, apps, skill level, whether they have their own machine, comfort with updating their computer, etc... have a huge effect on whether a student can successfully use an online text.  I teach students that range from high school age into their sixties.  Most of them are not comfortable troubleshooting problems, communicating problems, or even understanding that they have a problem.  There are students whose parents won't let them install Flash or other media players on the family PC.</p><p>Unless Schwarzenegger is talking about providing all students with a Kindle DX (in color) or some similar device with free wireless broadband to access their texts, we're talking about huge administrative burdens, tech support burdens, and even financial burdens for families.  The support ecosystem is just just not available for most folks to successfully use an online text for all of their courses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm working on my PhD in History , and to help pay the bills I teach both classroom and online history courses .
The institution I teach online courses for recently moved from requiring students to purchase the course text to providing them an online version with the class , while offering students the option to purchase custom hard copies .
Students can purchase the full , hardback , color version , can select monochrome versions , or get paperback or plastic comb bindings .
Sounds great , right ? Not so much.The vendor provides students with a login ID and password for each student to use , which gets them access to the book for six months after the end of the course .
The textbook website has integrated learning tools , skills assessments , maps , images , audio and video , etc... along with the text , which is properly paginated to go with my desk copy .
Again , this stuff all sounds great .
In practice , there are problems.Students complain that it takes them double or triple the time to do their reading .
Sending them login ID and password was a catastrophe , because they were provided by email , and not all students gave us the correct email address or knew that they had a school-supplied email address .
This led the school to just embed a link to the text in our courses , which killed much of the interactivity built into the online text.This ignores other problems .
Student computer type and age , patch level , apps , skill level , whether they have their own machine , comfort with updating their computer , etc... have a huge effect on whether a student can successfully use an online text .
I teach students that range from high school age into their sixties .
Most of them are not comfortable troubleshooting problems , communicating problems , or even understanding that they have a problem .
There are students whose parents wo n't let them install Flash or other media players on the family PC.Unless Schwarzenegger is talking about providing all students with a Kindle DX ( in color ) or some similar device with free wireless broadband to access their texts , we 're talking about huge administrative burdens , tech support burdens , and even financial burdens for families .
The support ecosystem is just just not available for most folks to successfully use an online text for all of their courses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm working on my PhD in History, and to help pay the bills I teach both classroom and online history courses.
The institution I teach online courses for recently moved from requiring students to purchase the course text to providing them an online version with the class, while offering students the option to purchase custom hard copies.
Students can purchase the full, hardback, color version, can select monochrome versions, or get paperback or plastic comb bindings.
Sounds great, right?Not so much.The vendor provides students with a login ID and password for each student to use, which gets them access to the book for six months after the end of the course.
The textbook website has integrated learning tools, skills assessments, maps, images, audio and video, etc... along with the text, which is properly paginated to go with my desk copy.
Again, this stuff all sounds great.
In practice, there are problems.Students complain that it takes them double or triple the time to do their reading.
Sending them login ID and password was a catastrophe, because they were provided by email, and not all students gave us the correct email address or knew that they had a school-supplied email address.
This led the school to just embed a link to the text in our courses, which killed much of the interactivity built into the online text.This ignores other problems.
Student computer type and age, patch level, apps, skill level, whether they have their own machine, comfort with updating their computer, etc... have a huge effect on whether a student can successfully use an online text.
I teach students that range from high school age into their sixties.
Most of them are not comfortable troubleshooting problems, communicating problems, or even understanding that they have a problem.
There are students whose parents won't let them install Flash or other media players on the family PC.Unless Schwarzenegger is talking about providing all students with a Kindle DX (in color) or some similar device with free wireless broadband to access their texts, we're talking about huge administrative burdens, tech support burdens, and even financial burdens for families.
The support ecosystem is just just not available for most folks to successfully use an online text for all of their courses.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265279</id>
	<title>Technology isn't always the answer.</title>
	<author>jimicus</author>
	<datestamp>1244560740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've never seen a book crash.</p><p>I've never seen a book show a mysterious error message, or ask me to contact my administrator.</p><p>I've never seen a computer I could replace for under &#194;&pound;20.</p><p>I've read - hell, I own - books older than the oldest personal computer in history.  They still work.</p><p>I've seen plenty of books get wet, but once they're dry they're fine.  Even if the pages are a little stiff.</p><p>I've never seen a book come delivered on the understanding I don't pass it on to anyone else once I'm done with it.</p><p>I've never seen a book which would stop working as soon as there was a power cut.</p><p>Nah, this is a silly idea.  Technology for its' own sake is seldom the best answer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've never seen a book crash.I 've never seen a book show a mysterious error message , or ask me to contact my administrator.I 've never seen a computer I could replace for under     20.I 've read - hell , I own - books older than the oldest personal computer in history .
They still work.I 've seen plenty of books get wet , but once they 're dry they 're fine .
Even if the pages are a little stiff.I 've never seen a book come delivered on the understanding I do n't pass it on to anyone else once I 'm done with it.I 've never seen a book which would stop working as soon as there was a power cut.Nah , this is a silly idea .
Technology for its ' own sake is seldom the best answer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've never seen a book crash.I've never seen a book show a mysterious error message, or ask me to contact my administrator.I've never seen a computer I could replace for under Â£20.I've read - hell, I own - books older than the oldest personal computer in history.
They still work.I've seen plenty of books get wet, but once they're dry they're fine.
Even if the pages are a little stiff.I've never seen a book come delivered on the understanding I don't pass it on to anyone else once I'm done with it.I've never seen a book which would stop working as soon as there was a power cut.Nah, this is a silly idea.
Technology for its' own sake is seldom the best answer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265127</id>
	<title>Re: Saturdy Morning Cereal</title>
	<author>Tei</author>
	<datestamp>1244560020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am jealous of these people posting relead XKCD and Cyanide comics, so I will post a related episode from SMBC.</p><p><a href="http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&amp;id=1535#comic" title="smbc-comics.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&amp;id=1535#comic</a> [smbc-comics.com]</p><p>Ok, not soo much related probably. But, who cares? no one read this messages anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am jealous of these people posting relead XKCD and Cyanide comics , so I will post a related episode from SMBC.http : //www.smbc-comics.com/index.php ? db = comics&amp;id = 1535 # comic [ smbc-comics.com ] Ok , not soo much related probably .
But , who cares ?
no one read this messages anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am jealous of these people posting relead XKCD and Cyanide comics, so I will post a related episode from SMBC.http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&amp;id=1535#comic [smbc-comics.com]Ok, not soo much related probably.
But, who cares?
no one read this messages anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266415</id>
	<title>Not what is seems</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244565540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is just a way for the gov to bargen down the cost of the books by telling publishers "we dont realy need you". next month (hopefully) the publishers will half the costs of the books and all will be as before.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just a way for the gov to bargen down the cost of the books by telling publishers " we dont realy need you " .
next month ( hopefully ) the publishers will half the costs of the books and all will be as before .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just a way for the gov to bargen down the cost of the books by telling publishers "we dont realy need you".
next month (hopefully) the publishers will half the costs of the books and all will be as before.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268817</id>
	<title>The key is libre, not online.</title>
	<author>AnotherBlackHat</author>
	<datestamp>1244574060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many people have complained that textbooks online are not going to be cheaper, easier, or as friendly as printed books.</p><p>If I had a pdf of a text book that I could legally print out and give to my students, then I could print them myself, and still provide them with books for a fraction of what their current text book costs.<br>And I could fix them - if say, someone spilled juice on pages 8-20, I could reprint just those pages, or when someone spots a typo, or just plain wrong information, then I could update just that part.<br>Plus those students who can read an electronic version can have a copy for home and leave the printed version in class.<br>And they could keep a copy for their entire life, if they ever wanted to refer back to it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many people have complained that textbooks online are not going to be cheaper , easier , or as friendly as printed books.If I had a pdf of a text book that I could legally print out and give to my students , then I could print them myself , and still provide them with books for a fraction of what their current text book costs.And I could fix them - if say , someone spilled juice on pages 8-20 , I could reprint just those pages , or when someone spots a typo , or just plain wrong information , then I could update just that part.Plus those students who can read an electronic version can have a copy for home and leave the printed version in class.And they could keep a copy for their entire life , if they ever wanted to refer back to it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many people have complained that textbooks online are not going to be cheaper, easier, or as friendly as printed books.If I had a pdf of a text book that I could legally print out and give to my students, then I could print them myself, and still provide them with books for a fraction of what their current text book costs.And I could fix them - if say, someone spilled juice on pages 8-20, I could reprint just those pages, or when someone spots a typo, or just plain wrong information, then I could update just that part.Plus those students who can read an electronic version can have a copy for home and leave the printed version in class.And they could keep a copy for their entire life, if they ever wanted to refer back to it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266401</id>
	<title>History's not the only update</title>
	<author>Cro Magnon</author>
	<datestamp>1244565480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was in school, Pluto was still a planet, and nobody heard of a Kuiper Belt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was in school , Pluto was still a planet , and nobody heard of a Kuiper Belt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was in school, Pluto was still a planet, and nobody heard of a Kuiper Belt.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265077</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264599</id>
	<title>Good idea</title>
	<author>MoldySpore</author>
	<datestamp>1244557620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I actually think that this is a good idea. I have long wondered why all schools don't use hard bound text books. Most colleges have some form of online text books available to all students. I attended RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) and most of the time, the text books we needed for class were available for free in an online version through our school's library, in addition to being available for purchase in a hard copy.</p><p>There were many times throughout my schooling where this kind of thing would have been helpful. For all the people out there, think about not having to carry a LOAD of books to school anymore, and only have to bring a laptop or have all your classes held in a computer lab (or, heaven forbid, the school springs for <a href="http://www.showmedaily.org/2009/04/a-laptop-on-every-desk.html" title="showmedaily.org" rel="nofollow">computers in every classroom</a> [showmedaily.org]). Also, I can't even count the number of times a text book got lost, left somewhere, or simply got destroyed (such as getting wet). These are issues that would not really be an issue if all text books are online.</p><p>While getting rid of the option for obtaining a hard copy of a text book completely isn't gonna be for everyone, I think this is a really forward looking idea, and Schwarzenegger should be praised for it. It's just too bad that it took this terrible economy and a state budget deficit for this kind of thinking to surface and take hold.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually think that this is a good idea .
I have long wondered why all schools do n't use hard bound text books .
Most colleges have some form of online text books available to all students .
I attended RIT ( Rochester Institute of Technology ) and most of the time , the text books we needed for class were available for free in an online version through our school 's library , in addition to being available for purchase in a hard copy.There were many times throughout my schooling where this kind of thing would have been helpful .
For all the people out there , think about not having to carry a LOAD of books to school anymore , and only have to bring a laptop or have all your classes held in a computer lab ( or , heaven forbid , the school springs for computers in every classroom [ showmedaily.org ] ) .
Also , I ca n't even count the number of times a text book got lost , left somewhere , or simply got destroyed ( such as getting wet ) .
These are issues that would not really be an issue if all text books are online.While getting rid of the option for obtaining a hard copy of a text book completely is n't gon na be for everyone , I think this is a really forward looking idea , and Schwarzenegger should be praised for it .
It 's just too bad that it took this terrible economy and a state budget deficit for this kind of thinking to surface and take hold .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I actually think that this is a good idea.
I have long wondered why all schools don't use hard bound text books.
Most colleges have some form of online text books available to all students.
I attended RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) and most of the time, the text books we needed for class were available for free in an online version through our school's library, in addition to being available for purchase in a hard copy.There were many times throughout my schooling where this kind of thing would have been helpful.
For all the people out there, think about not having to carry a LOAD of books to school anymore, and only have to bring a laptop or have all your classes held in a computer lab (or, heaven forbid, the school springs for computers in every classroom [showmedaily.org]).
Also, I can't even count the number of times a text book got lost, left somewhere, or simply got destroyed (such as getting wet).
These are issues that would not really be an issue if all text books are online.While getting rid of the option for obtaining a hard copy of a text book completely isn't gonna be for everyone, I think this is a really forward looking idea, and Schwarzenegger should be praised for it.
It's just too bad that it took this terrible economy and a state budget deficit for this kind of thinking to surface and take hold.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266891</id>
	<title>Do yah think ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244566980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that they'll use peer to peer for downloading teir textbooks ?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that they 'll use peer to peer for downloading teir textbooks ?
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that they'll use peer to peer for downloading teir textbooks ?
;-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266369</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC</title>
	<author>DeadDecoy</author>
	<datestamp>1244565300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmm<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... in terms of having tech that's expensive and easy to lose, why not have the school keep copies for each class, and loan em out to students during and at the end of the day? A lost book might constitute a fine, like broken glassware in a chem lab. Of course the possible negatives to this are if there are bullies who purposely steal or break netbooks or if the students live in a particularly bad neighborhood where theft is likely. To counter the latter, it might be useful to low-jack the devices and put some kind of passworded security on them. The former, is a bit trickier. I think replacing textbooks with netbooks is an interesting idea, but should be done a classroom, and then a school, at a time, and not wholesale, to see if it's feasible or not.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm ... in terms of having tech that 's expensive and easy to lose , why not have the school keep copies for each class , and loan em out to students during and at the end of the day ?
A lost book might constitute a fine , like broken glassware in a chem lab .
Of course the possible negatives to this are if there are bullies who purposely steal or break netbooks or if the students live in a particularly bad neighborhood where theft is likely .
To counter the latter , it might be useful to low-jack the devices and put some kind of passworded security on them .
The former , is a bit trickier .
I think replacing textbooks with netbooks is an interesting idea , but should be done a classroom , and then a school , at a time , and not wholesale , to see if it 's feasible or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm ... in terms of having tech that's expensive and easy to lose, why not have the school keep copies for each class, and loan em out to students during and at the end of the day?
A lost book might constitute a fine, like broken glassware in a chem lab.
Of course the possible negatives to this are if there are bullies who purposely steal or break netbooks or if the students live in a particularly bad neighborhood where theft is likely.
To counter the latter, it might be useful to low-jack the devices and put some kind of passworded security on them.
The former, is a bit trickier.
I think replacing textbooks with netbooks is an interesting idea, but should be done a classroom, and then a school, at a time, and not wholesale, to see if it's feasible or not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264549</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264677</id>
	<title>Children with learning disorders or disabilities</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244558040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think that this is a step in the right direction but, being an adult with ADHD, I can't help but think that this will be a problem for hyperactive or inattentive children.  When I sat in a room with just my books, it wasn't as hard to concentrate.  Unfortunately, medical school was a bit different.  We often used digital textbooks (because they were required, free, or we "obtained" them for free) and online learning aids.  I cannot tell you how distracted I was, though.  I would surf porn, read Slashdot, play games, anything but what I was supposed.  Today, I'm a successful doctor, but let me just say how hard it was getting here.  I still buy textbooks when I need to because digital versions just don't work for me and my style of learning or ease at which I get off track.  We use computers at the hospital for almost everything we do.  I'm actually on-call right now, but I got side-tracked while writing some discharge notes....  Argh!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that this is a step in the right direction but , being an adult with ADHD , I ca n't help but think that this will be a problem for hyperactive or inattentive children .
When I sat in a room with just my books , it was n't as hard to concentrate .
Unfortunately , medical school was a bit different .
We often used digital textbooks ( because they were required , free , or we " obtained " them for free ) and online learning aids .
I can not tell you how distracted I was , though .
I would surf porn , read Slashdot , play games , anything but what I was supposed .
Today , I 'm a successful doctor , but let me just say how hard it was getting here .
I still buy textbooks when I need to because digital versions just do n't work for me and my style of learning or ease at which I get off track .
We use computers at the hospital for almost everything we do .
I 'm actually on-call right now , but I got side-tracked while writing some discharge notes.... Argh !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that this is a step in the right direction but, being an adult with ADHD, I can't help but think that this will be a problem for hyperactive or inattentive children.
When I sat in a room with just my books, it wasn't as hard to concentrate.
Unfortunately, medical school was a bit different.
We often used digital textbooks (because they were required, free, or we "obtained" them for free) and online learning aids.
I cannot tell you how distracted I was, though.
I would surf porn, read Slashdot, play games, anything but what I was supposed.
Today, I'm a successful doctor, but let me just say how hard it was getting here.
I still buy textbooks when I need to because digital versions just don't work for me and my style of learning or ease at which I get off track.
We use computers at the hospital for almost everything we do.
I'm actually on-call right now, but I got side-tracked while writing some discharge notes....  Argh!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265461</id>
	<title>Re:Buy once - use many.</title>
	<author>muckracer</author>
	<datestamp>1244561400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Moving online isn't going to help unless they use OSS textbooks.</p><p>How about tax money being spent to pay researchers, educators etc.pp. to write and compile the various school text (e)books, which then would be made available with an Open-Source license to all students and teachers alike? Imagine the synergy of every state doing such a thing, nevermind different countries.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Moving online is n't going to help unless they use OSS textbooks.How about tax money being spent to pay researchers , educators etc.pp .
to write and compile the various school text ( e ) books , which then would be made available with an Open-Source license to all students and teachers alike ?
Imagine the synergy of every state doing such a thing , nevermind different countries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Moving online isn't going to help unless they use OSS textbooks.How about tax money being spent to pay researchers, educators etc.pp.
to write and compile the various school text (e)books, which then would be made available with an Open-Source license to all students and teachers alike?
Imagine the synergy of every state doing such a thing, nevermind different countries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266425</id>
	<title>The real cost of a homework computer:</title>
	<author>BForrester</author>
	<datestamp>1244565540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Basic used hardware:  under $100 for something in the 1GHz range<br>Old CRT monitor:  $20<br>USB drive to transfer the textbook / notes from school (instead of monthly Internet access):  $5</p><p>Anyone with rudimentary access to freecycle or kijiji or the local classified ads can easily find a practical "work" system.  At $125 or far less, this is well within the reach of anyone but the most poverty-stricken.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Basic used hardware : under $ 100 for something in the 1GHz rangeOld CRT monitor : $ 20USB drive to transfer the textbook / notes from school ( instead of monthly Internet access ) : $ 5Anyone with rudimentary access to freecycle or kijiji or the local classified ads can easily find a practical " work " system .
At $ 125 or far less , this is well within the reach of anyone but the most poverty-stricken .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basic used hardware:  under $100 for something in the 1GHz rangeOld CRT monitor:  $20USB drive to transfer the textbook / notes from school (instead of monthly Internet access):  $5Anyone with rudimentary access to freecycle or kijiji or the local classified ads can easily find a practical "work" system.
At $125 or far less, this is well within the reach of anyone but the most poverty-stricken.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267067</id>
	<title>Give em an Ebook Reader</title>
	<author>fast turtle</author>
	<datestamp>1244567580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>in place of those pesky text books that use a proprietary docking port for data loading. Don't give em network access and have them all be the same. Advantage is that students always have the current textbooks on the things and the schools have a unified format for ensuring that all students have the same text books based upon their classes. </p><p>In the event of breakage or other hardware failure, simply have a location where students can take them for replacement on campus. This ensures that the units given are then loaded with their textbooks and any reading assignments while getting the failed unit in for repair/replacement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>in place of those pesky text books that use a proprietary docking port for data loading .
Do n't give em network access and have them all be the same .
Advantage is that students always have the current textbooks on the things and the schools have a unified format for ensuring that all students have the same text books based upon their classes .
In the event of breakage or other hardware failure , simply have a location where students can take them for replacement on campus .
This ensures that the units given are then loaded with their textbooks and any reading assignments while getting the failed unit in for repair/replacement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>in place of those pesky text books that use a proprietary docking port for data loading.
Don't give em network access and have them all be the same.
Advantage is that students always have the current textbooks on the things and the schools have a unified format for ensuring that all students have the same text books based upon their classes.
In the event of breakage or other hardware failure, simply have a location where students can take them for replacement on campus.
This ensures that the units given are then loaded with their textbooks and any reading assignments while getting the failed unit in for repair/replacement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28284397</id>
	<title>existing corruption in textbook selection process</title>
	<author>doubleyou</author>
	<datestamp>1244624880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What I find interesting in this discussion is that everyone is obsessing over the technology aspects of the decision (which I suppose is natural for fans of this site), but nobody has speculated about the impact this might have on the existing highly corrupt process of textbook selection.  For some background, see "Lies My Teacher Told Me" (ISBN 978-0743296281) and Richard Feynman's account of his aborted attempt to sit on a textbook selection committee for the state of California (http://www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.htm).  The material may be a bit dated, but I'm not sure how much change has taken place since those anecdotes were written.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What I find interesting in this discussion is that everyone is obsessing over the technology aspects of the decision ( which I suppose is natural for fans of this site ) , but nobody has speculated about the impact this might have on the existing highly corrupt process of textbook selection .
For some background , see " Lies My Teacher Told Me " ( ISBN 978-0743296281 ) and Richard Feynman 's account of his aborted attempt to sit on a textbook selection committee for the state of California ( http : //www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.htm ) .
The material may be a bit dated , but I 'm not sure how much change has taken place since those anecdotes were written .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I find interesting in this discussion is that everyone is obsessing over the technology aspects of the decision (which I suppose is natural for fans of this site), but nobody has speculated about the impact this might have on the existing highly corrupt process of textbook selection.
For some background, see "Lies My Teacher Told Me" (ISBN 978-0743296281) and Richard Feynman's account of his aborted attempt to sit on a textbook selection committee for the state of California (http://www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.htm).
The material may be a bit dated, but I'm not sure how much change has taken place since those anecdotes were written.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267833</id>
	<title>Solution:  Books24x7.com + School Textbooks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244570400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No special e-text readers are needed.  Any O/S that can view a web-page can view the books.  Chapters are broken out into readable (printable) sections.  It works in Corporate America....</p><p>~RG</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No special e-text readers are needed .
Any O/S that can view a web-page can view the books .
Chapters are broken out into readable ( printable ) sections .
It works in Corporate America.... ~ RG</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No special e-text readers are needed.
Any O/S that can view a web-page can view the books.
Chapters are broken out into readable (printable) sections.
It works in Corporate America....~RG</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265283</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>2obvious4u</author>
	<datestamp>1244560740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What are you guys talking about?  A text book costs more than a computer, how is this even an issue?  Seems like a no-brainer to me.  A freaking Kindle DX is cheaper than most text books...  How about one Kindle per child?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What are you guys talking about ?
A text book costs more than a computer , how is this even an issue ?
Seems like a no-brainer to me .
A freaking Kindle DX is cheaper than most text books... How about one Kindle per child ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What are you guys talking about?
A text book costs more than a computer, how is this even an issue?
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
A freaking Kindle DX is cheaper than most text books...  How about one Kindle per child?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265495</id>
	<title>Re:online lectures, not books</title>
	<author>muckracer</author>
	<datestamp>1244561640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Video, on the other hand, is already good enough to have online lectures.</p><p>Are there overview sites that list or link to available videos of lectures from different schools etc.?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Video , on the other hand , is already good enough to have online lectures.Are there overview sites that list or link to available videos of lectures from different schools etc .
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Video, on the other hand, is already good enough to have online lectures.Are there overview sites that list or link to available videos of lectures from different schools etc.
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268337</id>
	<title>New Student Excuses?</title>
	<author>rnturn</author>
	<datestamp>1244572320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My neighbor didn't check before he started digging in his yard. (In Illinois we'd say someone didn't "call JULIE". "JULIE" = Joint Utility Locating Information for Excavators in case you're wondering.)
</p><p>The DoS ate my homework.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My neighbor did n't check before he started digging in his yard .
( In Illinois we 'd say someone did n't " call JULIE " .
" JULIE " = Joint Utility Locating Information for Excavators in case you 're wondering .
) The DoS ate my homework .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My neighbor didn't check before he started digging in his yard.
(In Illinois we'd say someone didn't "call JULIE".
"JULIE" = Joint Utility Locating Information for Excavators in case you're wondering.
)
The DoS ate my homework.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28275241</id>
	<title>Personal experience...</title>
	<author>JBaustian</author>
	<datestamp>1244568720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Several years ago I taught American history and world geography in the Rio Grande Valley of South Texas. The school did not have enough textbooks for every child, so only the one with real learning disabilities got their own text that they could take home. Everyone else only had the textbook that I handed out at the beginning of each class and collected at the end. I had a cart that I used to transport 30-35 of each text from classroom to classroom. (It was a heavy-duty cart that lasted the entire school year.)<br><br>Additionally, though I chose the better of the two American history texts that the school owned, I did not care much for it and made extensive use of photocopied handouts from "The American Pageant", a text I purchased from Amazon.com with my own money.<br><br>My niece who is entering 9th grade had an advanced math text of her own this last year, but no history text at all. My other niece, entering 7th grade, may have had textbooks but never had to bring them home because all homework assignments were on photocopied handouts.<br><br>Too bad for the textbook publishers, but they are in the same boat as newspaper publishers -- they are rapidly losing all their customers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Several years ago I taught American history and world geography in the Rio Grande Valley of South Texas .
The school did not have enough textbooks for every child , so only the one with real learning disabilities got their own text that they could take home .
Everyone else only had the textbook that I handed out at the beginning of each class and collected at the end .
I had a cart that I used to transport 30-35 of each text from classroom to classroom .
( It was a heavy-duty cart that lasted the entire school year .
) Additionally , though I chose the better of the two American history texts that the school owned , I did not care much for it and made extensive use of photocopied handouts from " The American Pageant " , a text I purchased from Amazon.com with my own money.My niece who is entering 9th grade had an advanced math text of her own this last year , but no history text at all .
My other niece , entering 7th grade , may have had textbooks but never had to bring them home because all homework assignments were on photocopied handouts.Too bad for the textbook publishers , but they are in the same boat as newspaper publishers -- they are rapidly losing all their customers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Several years ago I taught American history and world geography in the Rio Grande Valley of South Texas.
The school did not have enough textbooks for every child, so only the one with real learning disabilities got their own text that they could take home.
Everyone else only had the textbook that I handed out at the beginning of each class and collected at the end.
I had a cart that I used to transport 30-35 of each text from classroom to classroom.
(It was a heavy-duty cart that lasted the entire school year.
)Additionally, though I chose the better of the two American history texts that the school owned, I did not care much for it and made extensive use of photocopied handouts from "The American Pageant", a text I purchased from Amazon.com with my own money.My niece who is entering 9th grade had an advanced math text of her own this last year, but no history text at all.
My other niece, entering 7th grade, may have had textbooks but never had to bring them home because all homework assignments were on photocopied handouts.Too bad for the textbook publishers, but they are in the same boat as newspaper publishers -- they are rapidly losing all their customers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363</id>
	<title>OLPC?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244556480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So are they gonna provide students a method of using these electronic resources, like a OLPC?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So are they gon na provide students a method of using these electronic resources , like a OLPC ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So are they gonna provide students a method of using these electronic resources, like a OLPC?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264809</id>
	<title>I'd like to see how it works</title>
	<author>Registered Coward v2</author>
	<datestamp>1244558580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While it sounds good, the logistics of providing access will be a nightmare.  Simply expecting kids to have internet access / laptops won't cut it; that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.  Books, while not cheap, are much more durable and can be expected to last a lot longer.  The value of a 10 year old text as a teaching aid is suspect; but the life cycle costs is less than electronic.</p><p>Publishers now have a reason to update books more rapidly - remove the production costs for hardcover books and they can "outdate" books much faster; plus try to force per student per year licenses on districts.</p><p>Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While it sounds good , the logistics of providing access will be a nightmare .
Simply expecting kids to have internet access / laptops wo n't cut it ; that 's a lawsuit waiting to happen .
Books , while not cheap , are much more durable and can be expected to last a lot longer .
The value of a 10 year old text as a teaching aid is suspect ; but the life cycle costs is less than electronic.Publishers now have a reason to update books more rapidly - remove the production costs for hardcover books and they can " outdate " books much faster ; plus try to force per student per year licenses on districts.Be careful what you wish for , you may get it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While it sounds good, the logistics of providing access will be a nightmare.
Simply expecting kids to have internet access / laptops won't cut it; that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Books, while not cheap, are much more durable and can be expected to last a lot longer.
The value of a 10 year old text as a teaching aid is suspect; but the life cycle costs is less than electronic.Publishers now have a reason to update books more rapidly - remove the production costs for hardcover books and they can "outdate" books much faster; plus try to force per student per year licenses on districts.Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266535</id>
	<title>Lowers Global Warming</title>
	<author>97cobra</author>
	<datestamp>1244565960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With not as many physical books around, the fires (when the book burning starts) will be smaller. This leads to lower greenhouse gasses. Plus, I wont hurt my back as much while piling the books on the fire.</p><p>Al Gore</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With not as many physical books around , the fires ( when the book burning starts ) will be smaller .
This leads to lower greenhouse gasses .
Plus , I wont hurt my back as much while piling the books on the fire.Al Gore</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With not as many physical books around, the fires (when the book burning starts) will be smaller.
This leads to lower greenhouse gasses.
Plus, I wont hurt my back as much while piling the books on the fire.Al Gore</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264615</id>
	<title>Good Idea, Bad Timing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244557680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a good idea, but it won't save any money, this year at least.  Now you have to undergo a major project to source ebooks that are suitable, find the proper distribution method, ensure all schools have the technical capability to allow every student to access these books (at the same time no less - so no sharing computers/internet connections).  Teachers might all be teaching out of new books, with new errata, and a new "feel".  There are a ton of things to think about.<br> <br>
I like the idea, but the thought that this will be a money saver in the short term is, well, short sighted.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a good idea , but it wo n't save any money , this year at least .
Now you have to undergo a major project to source ebooks that are suitable , find the proper distribution method , ensure all schools have the technical capability to allow every student to access these books ( at the same time no less - so no sharing computers/internet connections ) .
Teachers might all be teaching out of new books , with new errata , and a new " feel " .
There are a ton of things to think about .
I like the idea , but the thought that this will be a money saver in the short term is , well , short sighted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a good idea, but it won't save any money, this year at least.
Now you have to undergo a major project to source ebooks that are suitable, find the proper distribution method, ensure all schools have the technical capability to allow every student to access these books (at the same time no less - so no sharing computers/internet connections).
Teachers might all be teaching out of new books, with new errata, and a new "feel".
There are a ton of things to think about.
I like the idea, but the thought that this will be a money saver in the short term is, well, short sighted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266135</id>
	<title>Re:History gets longer every year</title>
	<author>Helios1182</author>
	<datestamp>1244564160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>High school students aren't proving Kepler's conjecture; they are learning how to take a derivative of a polynomial and factor an expression.  Sure, all subjects continually change, but many remain perfectly stagnant at the level we are talking.  Even graduate level maths change very little from edition to edition.</p><p>Various social studies courses are about the only ones that need semi-frequent updates.  New wars, new countries, new politics, etc.  Of course you could always keep the books that cover ancient, old Eueopean, American revolution, pre-WW2, WW2-2000, etc. books and slowly add new texts as they are needed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>High school students are n't proving Kepler 's conjecture ; they are learning how to take a derivative of a polynomial and factor an expression .
Sure , all subjects continually change , but many remain perfectly stagnant at the level we are talking .
Even graduate level maths change very little from edition to edition.Various social studies courses are about the only ones that need semi-frequent updates .
New wars , new countries , new politics , etc .
Of course you could always keep the books that cover ancient , old Eueopean , American revolution , pre-WW2 , WW2-2000 , etc .
books and slowly add new texts as they are needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>High school students aren't proving Kepler's conjecture; they are learning how to take a derivative of a polynomial and factor an expression.
Sure, all subjects continually change, but many remain perfectly stagnant at the level we are talking.
Even graduate level maths change very little from edition to edition.Various social studies courses are about the only ones that need semi-frequent updates.
New wars, new countries, new politics, etc.
Of course you could always keep the books that cover ancient, old Eueopean, American revolution, pre-WW2, WW2-2000, etc.
books and slowly add new texts as they are needed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265077</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28291059</id>
	<title>Indiana use text book rental</title>
	<author>eyore15</author>
	<datestamp>1244720220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The High School English book I teach from coses $59.00.  We use the book for seven years.  Cost of the text is spread out over those 7 years. Cost to student $9 or so.  In Indiana, we charge the parent for the books their child[ren] use/s.  There's the initial outlay but much of that is recouped through the annual rental fees.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The High School English book I teach from coses $ 59.00 .
We use the book for seven years .
Cost of the text is spread out over those 7 years .
Cost to student $ 9 or so .
In Indiana , we charge the parent for the books their child [ ren ] use/s .
There 's the initial outlay but much of that is recouped through the annual rental fees .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The High School English book I teach from coses $59.00.
We use the book for seven years.
Cost of the text is spread out over those 7 years.
Cost to student $9 or so.
In Indiana, we charge the parent for the books their child[ren] use/s.
There's the initial outlay but much of that is recouped through the annual rental fees.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265661</id>
	<title>pay the teachers to do it.</title>
	<author>gowanus</author>
	<datestamp>1244562420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>for most subjects there has to be a large contingent of teachers competent to write the basic textbook materials.</p><p>make it competitive.  take best of breed.  augment a teachers salary abundantly for the years their textbooks are used.</p><p>if they paid an extra 20k per year of textbok use it would utilize the teachers, lower the costs and make it fit in with school procedure/style better.</p><p>this is one area where the state should be able to do better than private industry.  if private industry wants the contract, set a price and make them meet it.  be prepared to walk.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>for most subjects there has to be a large contingent of teachers competent to write the basic textbook materials.make it competitive .
take best of breed .
augment a teachers salary abundantly for the years their textbooks are used.if they paid an extra 20k per year of textbok use it would utilize the teachers , lower the costs and make it fit in with school procedure/style better.this is one area where the state should be able to do better than private industry .
if private industry wants the contract , set a price and make them meet it .
be prepared to walk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for most subjects there has to be a large contingent of teachers competent to write the basic textbook materials.make it competitive.
take best of breed.
augment a teachers salary abundantly for the years their textbooks are used.if they paid an extra 20k per year of textbok use it would utilize the teachers, lower the costs and make it fit in with school procedure/style better.this is one area where the state should be able to do better than private industry.
if private industry wants the contract, set a price and make them meet it.
be prepared to walk.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268255</id>
	<title>Downloading Movies, Music, and Textbooks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244572080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am currently a Junior at College and I have witnessed fellow classmates file sharing movies, music and textbooks.  Students and even some instructors, download and share copies of the text books used in class.  Some students never buy the ink and paper versions and just download a copy off a p2p network or some site.</p><p>I also had a phenomenal physics instructor who prints and sells his own supplemental materials for his classes.  His materials are still a work in progress, but in some of his classes we almost exclusively use his materials, which I often find equivalent to or greater than the standard textbooks.  His 'books' costs anywhere from $7 to $30, far less than the standard $70 to $130 text books.  He is also working on publishing all his materials online for the students to use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am currently a Junior at College and I have witnessed fellow classmates file sharing movies , music and textbooks .
Students and even some instructors , download and share copies of the text books used in class .
Some students never buy the ink and paper versions and just download a copy off a p2p network or some site.I also had a phenomenal physics instructor who prints and sells his own supplemental materials for his classes .
His materials are still a work in progress , but in some of his classes we almost exclusively use his materials , which I often find equivalent to or greater than the standard textbooks .
His 'books ' costs anywhere from $ 7 to $ 30 , far less than the standard $ 70 to $ 130 text books .
He is also working on publishing all his materials online for the students to use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am currently a Junior at College and I have witnessed fellow classmates file sharing movies, music and textbooks.
Students and even some instructors, download and share copies of the text books used in class.
Some students never buy the ink and paper versions and just download a copy off a p2p network or some site.I also had a phenomenal physics instructor who prints and sells his own supplemental materials for his classes.
His materials are still a work in progress, but in some of his classes we almost exclusively use his materials, which I often find equivalent to or greater than the standard textbooks.
His 'books' costs anywhere from $7 to $30, far less than the standard $70 to $130 text books.
He is also working on publishing all his materials online for the students to use.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264681</id>
	<title>Re:Buy once - use many.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244558040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mod insightful++</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod insightful + +</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod insightful++</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264557</id>
	<title>But they're so much less easy to use</title>
	<author>lordandmaker</author>
	<datestamp>1244557440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Though the screens are getting better, many people find it much easier to read off paper than a monitor, including people who've grown up with computers, so I don't think it's a habit thing.

And all my textbooks are full of annotations, I can't imagine there's a piece of software that makes it easier than quickly scrawling/drawing in the margin of a book, without me having to go out and acquaint myself with a tablet of some sort.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Though the screens are getting better , many people find it much easier to read off paper than a monitor , including people who 've grown up with computers , so I do n't think it 's a habit thing .
And all my textbooks are full of annotations , I ca n't imagine there 's a piece of software that makes it easier than quickly scrawling/drawing in the margin of a book , without me having to go out and acquaint myself with a tablet of some sort .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Though the screens are getting better, many people find it much easier to read off paper than a monitor, including people who've grown up with computers, so I don't think it's a habit thing.
And all my textbooks are full of annotations, I can't imagine there's a piece of software that makes it easier than quickly scrawling/drawing in the margin of a book, without me having to go out and acquaint myself with a tablet of some sort.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265247</id>
	<title>this seems like a terrible idea</title>
	<author>buddyglass</author>
	<datestamp>1244560620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about, instead, you 1) make kids pay when they damage books and 2) don't buy new editions every freaking year.  Do algebra or "reading" really change that much from year to year that you need to buy a new edition each time it comes out?</p><p>Online textbooks will save you money in not having to buy paper textbooks.  Instead you most likely have to buy a crapload of computers.  And, oh, by the way, that's not a one-time cost, since computers break down, become obsolete, etc.  Plus you have to deal with the issue of kids who don't have access to a computer/internet at home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about , instead , you 1 ) make kids pay when they damage books and 2 ) do n't buy new editions every freaking year .
Do algebra or " reading " really change that much from year to year that you need to buy a new edition each time it comes out ? Online textbooks will save you money in not having to buy paper textbooks .
Instead you most likely have to buy a crapload of computers .
And , oh , by the way , that 's not a one-time cost , since computers break down , become obsolete , etc .
Plus you have to deal with the issue of kids who do n't have access to a computer/internet at home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about, instead, you 1) make kids pay when they damage books and 2) don't buy new editions every freaking year.
Do algebra or "reading" really change that much from year to year that you need to buy a new edition each time it comes out?Online textbooks will save you money in not having to buy paper textbooks.
Instead you most likely have to buy a crapload of computers.
And, oh, by the way, that's not a one-time cost, since computers break down, become obsolete, etc.
Plus you have to deal with the issue of kids who don't have access to a computer/internet at home.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265671</id>
	<title>Re:Go Arnold!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244562480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, yeah. Either he just gave them the verbal equivalent to destroying their entire force with a minigun without actually killing anybody, or he really is that clueless about the state of the music and newspaper industries. My vote is on the minigun.</p><p>And hey, now that we mention it, WHERE IS SARAH CONNOR.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , yeah .
Either he just gave them the verbal equivalent to destroying their entire force with a minigun without actually killing anybody , or he really is that clueless about the state of the music and newspaper industries .
My vote is on the minigun.And hey , now that we mention it , WHERE IS SARAH CONNOR .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, yeah.
Either he just gave them the verbal equivalent to destroying their entire force with a minigun without actually killing anybody, or he really is that clueless about the state of the music and newspaper industries.
My vote is on the minigun.And hey, now that we mention it, WHERE IS SARAH CONNOR.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264437</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264419</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>Mr\_eX9</author>
	<datestamp>1244556780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know that there are publishers that make their textbooks available in a web-based format, such as <a href="http://wiley.com/" title="wiley.com">Wiley</a> [wiley.com]...but Wiley's textbooks have gotten pretty terrible, at least at college level. Hopefully California will be able to find a better product in this vein.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know that there are publishers that make their textbooks available in a web-based format , such as Wiley [ wiley.com ] ...but Wiley 's textbooks have gotten pretty terrible , at least at college level .
Hopefully California will be able to find a better product in this vein .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know that there are publishers that make their textbooks available in a web-based format, such as Wiley [wiley.com]...but Wiley's textbooks have gotten pretty terrible, at least at college level.
Hopefully California will be able to find a better product in this vein.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266453</id>
	<title>Re:History gets longer every year</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244565660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>WWII</p></div><p>History gets longer every year: Cold War (Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Apollo program, breakup and reunification of Germany), Woodstock, Bosnia, WTO, EU, World Trade Center, Afghanistan, Iraq. And we appear to be heading for a Korean War II. And there's still research into <em>how</em> each side won or lost.</p></div><p>Do you remember your school history classes? At least here in Ohio, we *never* got to any of the above. Most schools could have history books from 1975 without anybody noticing. Also, unless you had a much better history program than most, the answer to "how each side won or lost", the answer given was simple - "because AMERICA is the greatest country in the world" (+"because Jeebus is on our side", south of the Mason-Dixon line...).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>WWIIHistory gets longer every year : Cold War ( Korea , Vietnam , Cuba , Apollo program , breakup and reunification of Germany ) , Woodstock , Bosnia , WTO , EU , World Trade Center , Afghanistan , Iraq .
And we appear to be heading for a Korean War II .
And there 's still research into how each side won or lost.Do you remember your school history classes ?
At least here in Ohio , we * never * got to any of the above .
Most schools could have history books from 1975 without anybody noticing .
Also , unless you had a much better history program than most , the answer to " how each side won or lost " , the answer given was simple - " because AMERICA is the greatest country in the world " ( + " because Jeebus is on our side " , south of the Mason-Dixon line... ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WWIIHistory gets longer every year: Cold War (Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Apollo program, breakup and reunification of Germany), Woodstock, Bosnia, WTO, EU, World Trade Center, Afghanistan, Iraq.
And we appear to be heading for a Korean War II.
And there's still research into how each side won or lost.Do you remember your school history classes?
At least here in Ohio, we *never* got to any of the above.
Most schools could have history books from 1975 without anybody noticing.
Also, unless you had a much better history program than most, the answer to "how each side won or lost", the answer given was simple - "because AMERICA is the greatest country in the world" (+"because Jeebus is on our side", south of the Mason-Dixon line...).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265077</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266793</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>pyrelite</author>
	<datestamp>1244566740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Yeap.. I was just going to post the same thing.. we as<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. users are definitely on the tech side.. but lets remember not everyone has or can afford Internet access and the things to go with it (like a computer).</p><p>So really one must weight the cost of those dead-trees verses limited access mitigation like enhancing computer labs at schools, offering after-hours lab time, or even like you said, buying inexpensive netbooks for school (which you -know- will end up getting lost/damaged often so will need to be replaced.. plus who is gonna run the tech support for them when they get full of virii (or if they are linux, doing something like "rm -rf<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/")).</p><p>I'm very much for progress and technological evolution.... but we just got to realize there are still issues with doing it.</p></div><p>As far as internet access goes, I cannot think of any schools  that do not provide internet access for free on campus. And even if you had to replace an inepensive netbook every semester, netbooks are around what, $300-$400 maybe? It's not uncommon for students to pay $600-$900 a semester for books. It still ends up being remarkably cheaper. Most schools also already offer tech support to students for a very small cost.

You only have to enhance computer labs once to make them compatible, where as making new textbooks is a never ending process.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeap.. I was just going to post the same thing.. we as / .
users are definitely on the tech side.. but lets remember not everyone has or can afford Internet access and the things to go with it ( like a computer ) .So really one must weight the cost of those dead-trees verses limited access mitigation like enhancing computer labs at schools , offering after-hours lab time , or even like you said , buying inexpensive netbooks for school ( which you -know- will end up getting lost/damaged often so will need to be replaced.. plus who is gon na run the tech support for them when they get full of virii ( or if they are linux , doing something like " rm -rf / " ) ) .I 'm very much for progress and technological evolution.... but we just got to realize there are still issues with doing it.As far as internet access goes , I can not think of any schools that do not provide internet access for free on campus .
And even if you had to replace an inepensive netbook every semester , netbooks are around what , $ 300- $ 400 maybe ?
It 's not uncommon for students to pay $ 600- $ 900 a semester for books .
It still ends up being remarkably cheaper .
Most schools also already offer tech support to students for a very small cost .
You only have to enhance computer labs once to make them compatible , where as making new textbooks is a never ending process .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeap.. I was just going to post the same thing.. we as /.
users are definitely on the tech side.. but lets remember not everyone has or can afford Internet access and the things to go with it (like a computer).So really one must weight the cost of those dead-trees verses limited access mitigation like enhancing computer labs at schools, offering after-hours lab time, or even like you said, buying inexpensive netbooks for school (which you -know- will end up getting lost/damaged often so will need to be replaced.. plus who is gonna run the tech support for them when they get full of virii (or if they are linux, doing something like "rm -rf /")).I'm very much for progress and technological evolution.... but we just got to realize there are still issues with doing it.As far as internet access goes, I cannot think of any schools  that do not provide internet access for free on campus.
And even if you had to replace an inepensive netbook every semester, netbooks are around what, $300-$400 maybe?
It's not uncommon for students to pay $600-$900 a semester for books.
It still ends up being remarkably cheaper.
Most schools also already offer tech support to students for a very small cost.
You only have to enhance computer labs once to make them compatible, where as making new textbooks is a never ending process.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264725</id>
	<title>The Cost is the Copyright, Not the Printing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244558220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Producing soft-cover books (I've never made a hard cover) is trivial. The cost of these books isn't the printing cost, it's the copyright. Use Open Source textbooks.</p><p>Textbooks are a big business. And a dirty one: just see <a href="http://www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.html" title="textbookleague.org" rel="nofollow">Richard Feynman's experience</a> [textbookleague.org] </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Producing soft-cover books ( I 've never made a hard cover ) is trivial .
The cost of these books is n't the printing cost , it 's the copyright .
Use Open Source textbooks.Textbooks are a big business .
And a dirty one : just see Richard Feynman 's experience [ textbookleague.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Producing soft-cover books (I've never made a hard cover) is trivial.
The cost of these books isn't the printing cost, it's the copyright.
Use Open Source textbooks.Textbooks are a big business.
And a dirty one: just see Richard Feynman's experience [textbookleague.org] </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265017</id>
	<title>SPOILER!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244559540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If Hogwarts had e-books instead of dead-tree books, then Harry would never have been able to cheat in Potions class from Snape's childhood crib notes!</p><p>
Please! Think of the children!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If Hogwarts had e-books instead of dead-tree books , then Harry would never have been able to cheat in Potions class from Snape 's childhood crib notes !
Please ! Think of the children !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Hogwarts had e-books instead of dead-tree books, then Harry would never have been able to cheat in Potions class from Snape's childhood crib notes!
Please! Think of the children!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264901</id>
	<title>Textbooks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244558940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Various pieces of research (such as <a href="http://www.sigchi.org/chi97/proceedings/paper/koh.htm" title="sigchi.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.sigchi.org/chi97/proceedings/paper/koh.htm</a> [sigchi.org]) show that reading from a screen is not as effective for learning based activities as reading from paper. The major problems focus on reading from the screen being slower than reading from paper, the perception of text on-screen less accurately than paper and  higher fatigue when reading from a screen than from paper due to the backlit screen. Furthermore, prolonged usage of screens can lead to eyestrain, a common argument for restricting children from watching T.V too much, and with most children already watching hours of TV/Games/YouTube etc, do parents really want them spending another 6+ hours per schoolday (plus homework) stuck in front of a screen?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Various pieces of research ( such as http : //www.sigchi.org/chi97/proceedings/paper/koh.htm [ sigchi.org ] ) show that reading from a screen is not as effective for learning based activities as reading from paper .
The major problems focus on reading from the screen being slower than reading from paper , the perception of text on-screen less accurately than paper and higher fatigue when reading from a screen than from paper due to the backlit screen .
Furthermore , prolonged usage of screens can lead to eyestrain , a common argument for restricting children from watching T.V too much , and with most children already watching hours of TV/Games/YouTube etc , do parents really want them spending another 6 + hours per schoolday ( plus homework ) stuck in front of a screen ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Various pieces of research (such as http://www.sigchi.org/chi97/proceedings/paper/koh.htm [sigchi.org]) show that reading from a screen is not as effective for learning based activities as reading from paper.
The major problems focus on reading from the screen being slower than reading from paper, the perception of text on-screen less accurately than paper and  higher fatigue when reading from a screen than from paper due to the backlit screen.
Furthermore, prolonged usage of screens can lead to eyestrain, a common argument for restricting children from watching T.V too much, and with most children already watching hours of TV/Games/YouTube etc, do parents really want them spending another 6+ hours per schoolday (plus homework) stuck in front of a screen?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267025</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1244567400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please, this is no different then when typing was mandated. Don't have a typewriter? use the schools lab, library, or your local library. Same thing.</p><p>Computers and internet access are SUBSTANTIALLY cheap then books.<br>Yes, the overall cost of text books in money, accuracy, distribution and political positioning are a lot more thern the 500 bucks for the books.</p><p>Let the education industry create the material. Remove the textbooks companies completly out of the picture. Let them die, the deserve nothing less.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please , this is no different then when typing was mandated .
Do n't have a typewriter ?
use the schools lab , library , or your local library .
Same thing.Computers and internet access are SUBSTANTIALLY cheap then books.Yes , the overall cost of text books in money , accuracy , distribution and political positioning are a lot more thern the 500 bucks for the books.Let the education industry create the material .
Remove the textbooks companies completly out of the picture .
Let them die , the deserve nothing less .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please, this is no different then when typing was mandated.
Don't have a typewriter?
use the schools lab, library, or your local library.
Same thing.Computers and internet access are SUBSTANTIALLY cheap then books.Yes, the overall cost of text books in money, accuracy, distribution and political positioning are a lot more thern the 500 bucks for the books.Let the education industry create the material.
Remove the textbooks companies completly out of the picture.
Let them die, the deserve nothing less.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268491</id>
	<title>Re:Worst idea</title>
	<author>againjj</author>
	<datestamp>1244572920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yep,  With paper, everyone will have the <a href="http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html" title="gnu.org">right to read</a> [gnu.org].</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep , With paper , everyone will have the right to read [ gnu.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep,  With paper, everyone will have the right to read [gnu.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268763</id>
	<title>Bass ackwards</title>
	<author>Graymalkin</author>
	<datestamp>1244573820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>School textbooks in California face a far more complex problem than the up front cost of books from publishers. We have some of the toughest and byzantine textbook requirements in the country. This has contributed to us paying ridiculous prices for textbooks since fewer publishers want to even try selling the state new books. To compound this problem the textbook review process has been co-opted by a variety of special interest groups which increases requirements of publishers even further. This factor has also led to a lobotomization of actual content in textbooks, these SIGs demand history be white washed and reading material not be too stimulating. If we can break down the book approval/purchasing system into a more rational one we'll immediately save some money since we'll have actual competition between different publishers for our business.</p><p>The costs of paper books is a bit of a red herring. The emphasis in these sorts of comments tends to be on the paper part as if paper was somehow amazingly expensive or a fundamentally poor medium. The printing and materials cost of textbooks is a tiny fraction of their cover price. Our approval process puts up large barriers of entry for publishers meaning that only larger publishers with a plethora of reviews and revisions will ever get adopted. This added overhead increases the non-printing portion of the book's production cost which in turn is added to the cover price. If we just switched from a paper version of a book from ABC Publishing to the online version the only money saved would be the physical production price which is relatively small. A $100 would end up turning into a $90 book.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>School textbooks in California face a far more complex problem than the up front cost of books from publishers .
We have some of the toughest and byzantine textbook requirements in the country .
This has contributed to us paying ridiculous prices for textbooks since fewer publishers want to even try selling the state new books .
To compound this problem the textbook review process has been co-opted by a variety of special interest groups which increases requirements of publishers even further .
This factor has also led to a lobotomization of actual content in textbooks , these SIGs demand history be white washed and reading material not be too stimulating .
If we can break down the book approval/purchasing system into a more rational one we 'll immediately save some money since we 'll have actual competition between different publishers for our business.The costs of paper books is a bit of a red herring .
The emphasis in these sorts of comments tends to be on the paper part as if paper was somehow amazingly expensive or a fundamentally poor medium .
The printing and materials cost of textbooks is a tiny fraction of their cover price .
Our approval process puts up large barriers of entry for publishers meaning that only larger publishers with a plethora of reviews and revisions will ever get adopted .
This added overhead increases the non-printing portion of the book 's production cost which in turn is added to the cover price .
If we just switched from a paper version of a book from ABC Publishing to the online version the only money saved would be the physical production price which is relatively small .
A $ 100 would end up turning into a $ 90 book .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>School textbooks in California face a far more complex problem than the up front cost of books from publishers.
We have some of the toughest and byzantine textbook requirements in the country.
This has contributed to us paying ridiculous prices for textbooks since fewer publishers want to even try selling the state new books.
To compound this problem the textbook review process has been co-opted by a variety of special interest groups which increases requirements of publishers even further.
This factor has also led to a lobotomization of actual content in textbooks, these SIGs demand history be white washed and reading material not be too stimulating.
If we can break down the book approval/purchasing system into a more rational one we'll immediately save some money since we'll have actual competition between different publishers for our business.The costs of paper books is a bit of a red herring.
The emphasis in these sorts of comments tends to be on the paper part as if paper was somehow amazingly expensive or a fundamentally poor medium.
The printing and materials cost of textbooks is a tiny fraction of their cover price.
Our approval process puts up large barriers of entry for publishers meaning that only larger publishers with a plethora of reviews and revisions will ever get adopted.
This added overhead increases the non-printing portion of the book's production cost which in turn is added to the cover price.
If we just switched from a paper version of a book from ABC Publishing to the online version the only money saved would be the physical production price which is relatively small.
A $100 would end up turning into a $90 book.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28269849</id>
	<title>Anonymous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244577780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After reading over many of the comments, I was struck by the parallels between the possibilities of online textbooks and the realities of genetically modified canola. Monsanto has made quite a bit of money profiting from publicly-funded canola research. They have a patent for their GE canola, and will sue for infringement of this patent if they discover their GE seeds in your field (how do they know? They just steal some and hit you with a law suit later). There's actually an article on Slashdot regarding this strange phenomenon: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/01/03/30/146227/Can-I-See-Your-License-for-those-Plants-Sir?art\_pos=3</p><p>But the best part is that this company has rights to investigate your fields three years after you purchase their seeds (to make sure you didn't keep any).</p><p>Monsanto sells GE canola. Monsanto also sells Roundup herbicide. Funny thing, the GE canola only "works" if you use Monsanto's herbicide. The company is also working on creating a self-terminating GE plant, so you can't replant their seeds even if you wanted to.</p><p>It's a scary thing, and it might be exactly what this online textbook turns into:<br>1) Use the company's secondary resources to ensure your primary resources work.<br>2) Reselling, saving or recycling the material is prohibited.<br>3) Being sued when you attempt to save a "textbook" or resell it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After reading over many of the comments , I was struck by the parallels between the possibilities of online textbooks and the realities of genetically modified canola .
Monsanto has made quite a bit of money profiting from publicly-funded canola research .
They have a patent for their GE canola , and will sue for infringement of this patent if they discover their GE seeds in your field ( how do they know ?
They just steal some and hit you with a law suit later ) .
There 's actually an article on Slashdot regarding this strange phenomenon : http : //yro.slashdot.org/story/01/03/30/146227/Can-I-See-Your-License-for-those-Plants-Sir ? art \ _pos = 3But the best part is that this company has rights to investigate your fields three years after you purchase their seeds ( to make sure you did n't keep any ) .Monsanto sells GE canola .
Monsanto also sells Roundup herbicide .
Funny thing , the GE canola only " works " if you use Monsanto 's herbicide .
The company is also working on creating a self-terminating GE plant , so you ca n't replant their seeds even if you wanted to.It 's a scary thing , and it might be exactly what this online textbook turns into : 1 ) Use the company 's secondary resources to ensure your primary resources work.2 ) Reselling , saving or recycling the material is prohibited.3 ) Being sued when you attempt to save a " textbook " or resell it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After reading over many of the comments, I was struck by the parallels between the possibilities of online textbooks and the realities of genetically modified canola.
Monsanto has made quite a bit of money profiting from publicly-funded canola research.
They have a patent for their GE canola, and will sue for infringement of this patent if they discover their GE seeds in your field (how do they know?
They just steal some and hit you with a law suit later).
There's actually an article on Slashdot regarding this strange phenomenon: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/01/03/30/146227/Can-I-See-Your-License-for-those-Plants-Sir?art\_pos=3But the best part is that this company has rights to investigate your fields three years after you purchase their seeds (to make sure you didn't keep any).Monsanto sells GE canola.
Monsanto also sells Roundup herbicide.
Funny thing, the GE canola only "works" if you use Monsanto's herbicide.
The company is also working on creating a self-terminating GE plant, so you can't replant their seeds even if you wanted to.It's a scary thing, and it might be exactly what this online textbook turns into:1) Use the company's secondary resources to ensure your primary resources work.2) Reselling, saving or recycling the material is prohibited.3) Being sued when you attempt to save a "textbook" or resell it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264911</id>
	<title>Who wants to bet they'll spend more than $350M</title>
	<author>1800maxim</author>
	<datestamp>1244559000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>just creating the website, putting those books online and maintaining them.</p><p>I would like to find out what the annual costs of maintaining such a system will also be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>just creating the website , putting those books online and maintaining them.I would like to find out what the annual costs of maintaining such a system will also be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>just creating the website, putting those books online and maintaining them.I would like to find out what the annual costs of maintaining such a system will also be.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267031</id>
	<title>Re:No its not...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244567460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...Then what happens if for some reason these textbooks are not cross platform? What if they restrict access to only Windows machines, or Windows and Mac? What happens whenever a student's computer breaks so they can't do the assignment or if they can only afford low-speed internet or that is all that is offered where they live?</p></div><p>The Open University in the UK already deals with this.  It's all distance learning, so PDFs tend to be used although many courses do indeed still mail out reams of printed textbooks too.  I got screwed because my platform of choice was linux:</p><ul> <li>A whole bunch of the software obviously wouldn't work</li><li>I got told "sorry chum, no support available for you".</li></ul></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...Then what happens if for some reason these textbooks are not cross platform ?
What if they restrict access to only Windows machines , or Windows and Mac ?
What happens whenever a student 's computer breaks so they ca n't do the assignment or if they can only afford low-speed internet or that is all that is offered where they live ? The Open University in the UK already deals with this .
It 's all distance learning , so PDFs tend to be used although many courses do indeed still mail out reams of printed textbooks too .
I got screwed because my platform of choice was linux : A whole bunch of the software obviously would n't workI got told " sorry chum , no support available for you " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...Then what happens if for some reason these textbooks are not cross platform?
What if they restrict access to only Windows machines, or Windows and Mac?
What happens whenever a student's computer breaks so they can't do the assignment or if they can only afford low-speed internet or that is all that is offered where they live?The Open University in the UK already deals with this.
It's all distance learning, so PDFs tend to be used although many courses do indeed still mail out reams of printed textbooks too.
I got screwed because my platform of choice was linux: A whole bunch of the software obviously wouldn't workI got told "sorry chum, no support available for you".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264437</id>
	<title>Go Arnold!</title>
	<author>noundi</author>
	<datestamp>1244556840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As the music and newspaper industries will attest, those who adapt quickly to changing consumer and business demands will thrive in our increasingly digital society and worldwide economy.</p></div><p>Is it just me or did anybody else parse this sentence as "Let's not fail in life like the music and newspaper industries and actually use internet for our gain instead of hopelessly fighting it"? Is he giving the music/news industry attitude!?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As the music and newspaper industries will attest , those who adapt quickly to changing consumer and business demands will thrive in our increasingly digital society and worldwide economy.Is it just me or did anybody else parse this sentence as " Let 's not fail in life like the music and newspaper industries and actually use internet for our gain instead of hopelessly fighting it " ?
Is he giving the music/news industry attitude ! ?
: D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As the music and newspaper industries will attest, those who adapt quickly to changing consumer and business demands will thrive in our increasingly digital society and worldwide economy.Is it just me or did anybody else parse this sentence as "Let's not fail in life like the music and newspaper industries and actually use internet for our gain instead of hopelessly fighting it"?
Is he giving the music/news industry attitude!?
:D
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266107</id>
	<title>Re:Buy once - use many.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244564040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Unless I haven't been paying attention, Geometry, Calculus, WWII, the Roman Empire, Mitosis, etc hasn't changed much in the last few years.</p></div><p>I can't speak for the other subjects but biology ("Mitosis") is actually changing at a rapid pace. Watson and Crick published in 1953 - which is to say that less than 60 years ago even the basic mechanism of DNA replication wasn't understood. The Human Genome project was only completed in 2003 and that project has provided some stunning insights into genetics and molecular biology.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The problem isn't that books are expensive, it's that they keep buying new ones when the old ones aren't obsolete.</p></div><p>We may be agreeing here. The actual physical printing costs are only a small fraction of the cost of the textbook. What you're paying for is copyright. That is, the cost of the textbook is the result of an artificial monopoly imposed by the federal government.</p><p>Here's where we may disagree. Given that the cost of a textbook is mostly artificial, it really has little to do with how often new copies are printed.</p><p> One thing that does drive up the cost of textbooks though is reinventing the wheel. If textbooks where OSS then only incremental work would be needed to keep them up to date - rather than re-writing the whole thing from scratch.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless I have n't been paying attention , Geometry , Calculus , WWII , the Roman Empire , Mitosis , etc has n't changed much in the last few years.I ca n't speak for the other subjects but biology ( " Mitosis " ) is actually changing at a rapid pace .
Watson and Crick published in 1953 - which is to say that less than 60 years ago even the basic mechanism of DNA replication was n't understood .
The Human Genome project was only completed in 2003 and that project has provided some stunning insights into genetics and molecular biology.The problem is n't that books are expensive , it 's that they keep buying new ones when the old ones are n't obsolete.We may be agreeing here .
The actual physical printing costs are only a small fraction of the cost of the textbook .
What you 're paying for is copyright .
That is , the cost of the textbook is the result of an artificial monopoly imposed by the federal government.Here 's where we may disagree .
Given that the cost of a textbook is mostly artificial , it really has little to do with how often new copies are printed .
One thing that does drive up the cost of textbooks though is reinventing the wheel .
If textbooks where OSS then only incremental work would be needed to keep them up to date - rather than re-writing the whole thing from scratch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless I haven't been paying attention, Geometry, Calculus, WWII, the Roman Empire, Mitosis, etc hasn't changed much in the last few years.I can't speak for the other subjects but biology ("Mitosis") is actually changing at a rapid pace.
Watson and Crick published in 1953 - which is to say that less than 60 years ago even the basic mechanism of DNA replication wasn't understood.
The Human Genome project was only completed in 2003 and that project has provided some stunning insights into genetics and molecular biology.The problem isn't that books are expensive, it's that they keep buying new ones when the old ones aren't obsolete.We may be agreeing here.
The actual physical printing costs are only a small fraction of the cost of the textbook.
What you're paying for is copyright.
That is, the cost of the textbook is the result of an artificial monopoly imposed by the federal government.Here's where we may disagree.
Given that the cost of a textbook is mostly artificial, it really has little to do with how often new copies are printed.
One thing that does drive up the cost of textbooks though is reinventing the wheel.
If textbooks where OSS then only incremental work would be needed to keep them up to date - rather than re-writing the whole thing from scratch.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28269859</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>L0rdJedi</author>
	<datestamp>1244577780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tell the kids at least a day in advance what text is going to be read.  That way, the kids that don't have Internet at home can go to the computer lab and print the necessary pages.  You'll still be using some paper, but far less than a full books worth.  This also has the advantage of basically telling the kids "We're going to read these pages in class tomorrow, so you should read them at home tonight in order to better discuss it tomorrow".  Most of the kids probably won't do that, but that's no different than right now anyway.</p><p>I think this is a really great idea as long as they give the kids with no Internet some kind of place where they can do the reading and print out what they need.  Whether it's a computer lab in the school library or even a local library in the city, either way should be fine.  It'll also get kids back into the library.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tell the kids at least a day in advance what text is going to be read .
That way , the kids that do n't have Internet at home can go to the computer lab and print the necessary pages .
You 'll still be using some paper , but far less than a full books worth .
This also has the advantage of basically telling the kids " We 're going to read these pages in class tomorrow , so you should read them at home tonight in order to better discuss it tomorrow " .
Most of the kids probably wo n't do that , but that 's no different than right now anyway.I think this is a really great idea as long as they give the kids with no Internet some kind of place where they can do the reading and print out what they need .
Whether it 's a computer lab in the school library or even a local library in the city , either way should be fine .
It 'll also get kids back into the library .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tell the kids at least a day in advance what text is going to be read.
That way, the kids that don't have Internet at home can go to the computer lab and print the necessary pages.
You'll still be using some paper, but far less than a full books worth.
This also has the advantage of basically telling the kids "We're going to read these pages in class tomorrow, so you should read them at home tonight in order to better discuss it tomorrow".
Most of the kids probably won't do that, but that's no different than right now anyway.I think this is a really great idea as long as they give the kids with no Internet some kind of place where they can do the reading and print out what they need.
Whether it's a computer lab in the school library or even a local library in the city, either way should be fine.
It'll also get kids back into the library.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266517</id>
	<title>Great...</title>
	<author>genw3st</author>
	<datestamp>1244565900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... we can now ensure that kids and adolescents have vision problems as a result of staring at screens for too long. In addition, we will spend at least twice the money to start this program while pretending that we're saving money.</p><p>Cue utopian-fantasy programs that will not, or at least should not, ever see the light of day - and yet, it still pacifies the angry population. Somehow.</p><p>I can admit though - it would be interesting if the schooling system could implement things like: checking your kids progress or grades online, seeing what they're going over in class (at any given point in time) - tools that would help both the children and their parents. While these things are indeed possible at the moment, perhaps a more efficient system would benefit everyone - and also encourage more parents to be actively involved in their child's education.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... we can now ensure that kids and adolescents have vision problems as a result of staring at screens for too long .
In addition , we will spend at least twice the money to start this program while pretending that we 're saving money.Cue utopian-fantasy programs that will not , or at least should not , ever see the light of day - and yet , it still pacifies the angry population .
Somehow.I can admit though - it would be interesting if the schooling system could implement things like : checking your kids progress or grades online , seeing what they 're going over in class ( at any given point in time ) - tools that would help both the children and their parents .
While these things are indeed possible at the moment , perhaps a more efficient system would benefit everyone - and also encourage more parents to be actively involved in their child 's education .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... we can now ensure that kids and adolescents have vision problems as a result of staring at screens for too long.
In addition, we will spend at least twice the money to start this program while pretending that we're saving money.Cue utopian-fantasy programs that will not, or at least should not, ever see the light of day - and yet, it still pacifies the angry population.
Somehow.I can admit though - it would be interesting if the schooling system could implement things like: checking your kids progress or grades online, seeing what they're going over in class (at any given point in time) - tools that would help both the children and their parents.
While these things are indeed possible at the moment, perhaps a more efficient system would benefit everyone - and also encourage more parents to be actively involved in their child's education.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266573</id>
	<title>how to cut textbook costs instantly in 3 easy step</title>
	<author>castironpigeon</author>
	<datestamp>1244566080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>1. Google textbook name + torrent.
2. Follow link.
3. Download.</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Google textbook name + torrent .
2. Follow link .
3. Download .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Google textbook name + torrent.
2. Follow link.
3. Download.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266241</id>
	<title>Lacking in sensile associations</title>
	<author>teflaime</author>
	<datestamp>1244564580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One of the problems with online textbooks is that they lack any sensile association. Sensile associations help people remember.

Remember the smell of that musty textbook, and you have a much better chance of recalling what was in that musty textbook. Remember the feel of that shiny textbook page, you are more likely to recall what was on the page.

If we cut out the sensile area of recall, all the evidence I've seen points to lower retention and poorer learning of subjects.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the problems with online textbooks is that they lack any sensile association .
Sensile associations help people remember .
Remember the smell of that musty textbook , and you have a much better chance of recalling what was in that musty textbook .
Remember the feel of that shiny textbook page , you are more likely to recall what was on the page .
If we cut out the sensile area of recall , all the evidence I 've seen points to lower retention and poorer learning of subjects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the problems with online textbooks is that they lack any sensile association.
Sensile associations help people remember.
Remember the smell of that musty textbook, and you have a much better chance of recalling what was in that musty textbook.
Remember the feel of that shiny textbook page, you are more likely to recall what was on the page.
If we cut out the sensile area of recall, all the evidence I've seen points to lower retention and poorer learning of subjects.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268559</id>
	<title>Looks like Aaaahnold has finally worked out ...</title>
	<author>Builder</author>
	<datestamp>1244573160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>how to help kill that pesky second hand text-book market. Now people will get to pay full retail \_every\_ year with no cost-cutting options.</p><p>Genius - keeps the IP business alive and kicking.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>how to help kill that pesky second hand text-book market .
Now people will get to pay full retail \ _every \ _ year with no cost-cutting options.Genius - keeps the IP business alive and kicking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>how to help kill that pesky second hand text-book market.
Now people will get to pay full retail \_every\_ year with no cost-cutting options.Genius - keeps the IP business alive and kicking.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264585</id>
	<title>The Eyes Have it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244557560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And with National Healthcare looming on the horizon, the kids will be able to get new prescriptions for the glasses that they'll need every year!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And with National Healthcare looming on the horizon , the kids will be able to get new prescriptions for the glasses that they 'll need every year !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And with National Healthcare looming on the horizon, the kids will be able to get new prescriptions for the glasses that they'll need every year!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268069</id>
	<title>eBooks make terrible textbooks</title>
	<author>dgcaste</author>
	<datestamp>1244571420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've attended an online university for some time, and they recently decided to move to eBooks because the university covers the cost of the texts.<br> <br>
Ebooks are TERRIBLE for study. You have to be in front of a computer to study, it is hard to highlight and annotate, it is a strain on the eyes, and it is not as easily portable as people think. I had to resort to loading them on my iPhone but that became a problem when I realized there's really very little out there that allows you to bookmark PDF's and I ended up scrolling through dozens of pages to get back at where I was.<br> <br>
I suggested to my university that they invest on subsidizing a good PDF reader, even if it's the Kindle DX. I have yet to hear from them.<br> <br>
The funniest part to me was that they cited "inflation" as the reason why they moved to eBooks. I think that's silly, since inflation affects ALL prices, not just conventional or physical ones.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've attended an online university for some time , and they recently decided to move to eBooks because the university covers the cost of the texts .
Ebooks are TERRIBLE for study .
You have to be in front of a computer to study , it is hard to highlight and annotate , it is a strain on the eyes , and it is not as easily portable as people think .
I had to resort to loading them on my iPhone but that became a problem when I realized there 's really very little out there that allows you to bookmark PDF 's and I ended up scrolling through dozens of pages to get back at where I was .
I suggested to my university that they invest on subsidizing a good PDF reader , even if it 's the Kindle DX .
I have yet to hear from them .
The funniest part to me was that they cited " inflation " as the reason why they moved to eBooks .
I think that 's silly , since inflation affects ALL prices , not just conventional or physical ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've attended an online university for some time, and they recently decided to move to eBooks because the university covers the cost of the texts.
Ebooks are TERRIBLE for study.
You have to be in front of a computer to study, it is hard to highlight and annotate, it is a strain on the eyes, and it is not as easily portable as people think.
I had to resort to loading them on my iPhone but that became a problem when I realized there's really very little out there that allows you to bookmark PDF's and I ended up scrolling through dozens of pages to get back at where I was.
I suggested to my university that they invest on subsidizing a good PDF reader, even if it's the Kindle DX.
I have yet to hear from them.
The funniest part to me was that they cited "inflation" as the reason why they moved to eBooks.
I think that's silly, since inflation affects ALL prices, not just conventional or physical ones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265745</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>sgt scrub</author>
	<datestamp>1244562780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is an ever growing number of schools going to 1 to 1 programs (each student with a laptop).  The biggest issues confronting the schools that have made the switch is bandwidth.  Students tend not to do things to destroy laptops they are going to use all year.  If the telco's would run fiber to schools, then branch it out to area households, the biggest problem would go away and the telco's could profit from it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is an ever growing number of schools going to 1 to 1 programs ( each student with a laptop ) .
The biggest issues confronting the schools that have made the switch is bandwidth .
Students tend not to do things to destroy laptops they are going to use all year .
If the telco 's would run fiber to schools , then branch it out to area households , the biggest problem would go away and the telco 's could profit from it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is an ever growing number of schools going to 1 to 1 programs (each student with a laptop).
The biggest issues confronting the schools that have made the switch is bandwidth.
Students tend not to do things to destroy laptops they are going to use all year.
If the telco's would run fiber to schools, then branch it out to area households, the biggest problem would go away and the telco's could profit from it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266977</id>
	<title>Are creative commons textbooks too far away?</title>
	<author>MarkvW</author>
	<datestamp>1244567280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Getting rid of the physical book format eliminates a lot of costs, as well as tremendous barriers to entry.  Anybody can now write and publish a school textbook that California can use.  This presents a wonderful opportunity for Creative Commons licensing.</p><p>I have a hard time understanding why any state would buy copyrighted books.  It seems to me that states would be better off if they commissioned for hire textbooks and published those books with a creative commons license.  Once the books were available to all for edit and modification, people could refine the content and modify it for the future.</p><p>This might not work at first for politically charged stuff like English and the social sciences, but it would be really interesting to try with math, the hard sciences, and the practical arts.</p><p>The debate over content would be really fascinating to watch!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Getting rid of the physical book format eliminates a lot of costs , as well as tremendous barriers to entry .
Anybody can now write and publish a school textbook that California can use .
This presents a wonderful opportunity for Creative Commons licensing.I have a hard time understanding why any state would buy copyrighted books .
It seems to me that states would be better off if they commissioned for hire textbooks and published those books with a creative commons license .
Once the books were available to all for edit and modification , people could refine the content and modify it for the future.This might not work at first for politically charged stuff like English and the social sciences , but it would be really interesting to try with math , the hard sciences , and the practical arts.The debate over content would be really fascinating to watch !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Getting rid of the physical book format eliminates a lot of costs, as well as tremendous barriers to entry.
Anybody can now write and publish a school textbook that California can use.
This presents a wonderful opportunity for Creative Commons licensing.I have a hard time understanding why any state would buy copyrighted books.
It seems to me that states would be better off if they commissioned for hire textbooks and published those books with a creative commons license.
Once the books were available to all for edit and modification, people could refine the content and modify it for the future.This might not work at first for politically charged stuff like English and the social sciences, but it would be really interesting to try with math, the hard sciences, and the practical arts.The debate over content would be really fascinating to watch!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265299</id>
	<title>Lots of room for success and growth</title>
	<author>bbasgen</author>
	<datestamp>1244560800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are many and growing examples of school districts abandoning text books entirely. The basic premise is that K-12 textbooks fundamentally contain public knowledge -- the only thing that is proprietary is word choice and presentation, much of which is discarded by the teacher anyway. Thus, the first way to get beyond textbooks is to allow teachers the freedom and control to serve up their own contact.

Vail School District in Southern Arizona has developed a wonderful program called "Beyond Textbooks" that emphasizes teacher collaboration and curriculum sharing. This has countless ancillary benefits, all in addition to the most basic: saving countless dollars on textbook purchases.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many and growing examples of school districts abandoning text books entirely .
The basic premise is that K-12 textbooks fundamentally contain public knowledge -- the only thing that is proprietary is word choice and presentation , much of which is discarded by the teacher anyway .
Thus , the first way to get beyond textbooks is to allow teachers the freedom and control to serve up their own contact .
Vail School District in Southern Arizona has developed a wonderful program called " Beyond Textbooks " that emphasizes teacher collaboration and curriculum sharing .
This has countless ancillary benefits , all in addition to the most basic : saving countless dollars on textbook purchases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many and growing examples of school districts abandoning text books entirely.
The basic premise is that K-12 textbooks fundamentally contain public knowledge -- the only thing that is proprietary is word choice and presentation, much of which is discarded by the teacher anyway.
Thus, the first way to get beyond textbooks is to allow teachers the freedom and control to serve up their own contact.
Vail School District in Southern Arizona has developed a wonderful program called "Beyond Textbooks" that emphasizes teacher collaboration and curriculum sharing.
This has countless ancillary benefits, all in addition to the most basic: saving countless dollars on textbook purchases.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265215</id>
	<title>Oppurtunity comes a knockin</title>
	<author>Defectuous</author>
	<datestamp>1244560500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I look at this as a opportunity for Kindle to sell the idea of using them instead of books. other than Amazon making a bundle on book sales, they would have a kindle in every students hands. Course if they broke the school could sell the student one for a profit.and the family could transfer the books to the new device.

All I see with this idea is PROFIT, PROFIT, PROFIT</htmltext>
<tokenext>I look at this as a opportunity for Kindle to sell the idea of using them instead of books .
other than Amazon making a bundle on book sales , they would have a kindle in every students hands .
Course if they broke the school could sell the student one for a profit.and the family could transfer the books to the new device .
All I see with this idea is PROFIT , PROFIT , PROFIT</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I look at this as a opportunity for Kindle to sell the idea of using them instead of books.
other than Amazon making a bundle on book sales, they would have a kindle in every students hands.
Course if they broke the school could sell the student one for a profit.and the family could transfer the books to the new device.
All I see with this idea is PROFIT, PROFIT, PROFIT</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265561</id>
	<title>Wifes school already did this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244561940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>She works in the Palm Springs school district and so far the results are mixed and expensive.</p><p>Basically the school dumps down $35,000 of tax payer money into laptops that the students try to steal which break when you drop them. The software is all internet based so that means no filtering. For some reason the I.T. department can't figure out how to firewall all addresses besides the 2 or 3 needed for the programs. She was told it had to do with some activeX controls. This means the kids log into myspace, facebook, and other inappropriate web sites when no one is looking. This includes a few sites where a chick in her class thought it was funny to show a pic of herself topless. My wife didn't report it because she could be fired on spot. She tried banning htem after I told her how to filter them with a hosts file. The kids just google for proxies to get around that. This is a problem because the lawyers feel the teacher is 100\% responsible 100\% of all the viewing on all 30 laptops.</p><p>Anyway as a math teacher the students really need to practice on paper and its hard to graph functions and slopes on a computer as the students do not understand the concept. What is good about them is that students can finish their work early and then be done and browse the net. With books they have to wait because they can distract other students if they do any other activities.</p><p>My wife kind of likes it because its less work for her. Computer grades everything wtih a submit button. In practice she has had the lkaptop key stolen once or twice and had to put her classroom on lockdown to get them back and the issue of inappropriate websites keep becoming an issue. Schools do not have a budget for a real competent staff who could configure their routers tighter than a virgin's ass with blocking search engines and non educational websites.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>She works in the Palm Springs school district and so far the results are mixed and expensive.Basically the school dumps down $ 35,000 of tax payer money into laptops that the students try to steal which break when you drop them .
The software is all internet based so that means no filtering .
For some reason the I.T .
department ca n't figure out how to firewall all addresses besides the 2 or 3 needed for the programs .
She was told it had to do with some activeX controls .
This means the kids log into myspace , facebook , and other inappropriate web sites when no one is looking .
This includes a few sites where a chick in her class thought it was funny to show a pic of herself topless .
My wife did n't report it because she could be fired on spot .
She tried banning htem after I told her how to filter them with a hosts file .
The kids just google for proxies to get around that .
This is a problem because the lawyers feel the teacher is 100 \ % responsible 100 \ % of all the viewing on all 30 laptops.Anyway as a math teacher the students really need to practice on paper and its hard to graph functions and slopes on a computer as the students do not understand the concept .
What is good about them is that students can finish their work early and then be done and browse the net .
With books they have to wait because they can distract other students if they do any other activities.My wife kind of likes it because its less work for her .
Computer grades everything wtih a submit button .
In practice she has had the lkaptop key stolen once or twice and had to put her classroom on lockdown to get them back and the issue of inappropriate websites keep becoming an issue .
Schools do not have a budget for a real competent staff who could configure their routers tighter than a virgin 's ass with blocking search engines and non educational websites .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>She works in the Palm Springs school district and so far the results are mixed and expensive.Basically the school dumps down $35,000 of tax payer money into laptops that the students try to steal which break when you drop them.
The software is all internet based so that means no filtering.
For some reason the I.T.
department can't figure out how to firewall all addresses besides the 2 or 3 needed for the programs.
She was told it had to do with some activeX controls.
This means the kids log into myspace, facebook, and other inappropriate web sites when no one is looking.
This includes a few sites where a chick in her class thought it was funny to show a pic of herself topless.
My wife didn't report it because she could be fired on spot.
She tried banning htem after I told her how to filter them with a hosts file.
The kids just google for proxies to get around that.
This is a problem because the lawyers feel the teacher is 100\% responsible 100\% of all the viewing on all 30 laptops.Anyway as a math teacher the students really need to practice on paper and its hard to graph functions and slopes on a computer as the students do not understand the concept.
What is good about them is that students can finish their work early and then be done and browse the net.
With books they have to wait because they can distract other students if they do any other activities.My wife kind of likes it because its less work for her.
Computer grades everything wtih a submit button.
In practice she has had the lkaptop key stolen once or twice and had to put her classroom on lockdown to get them back and the issue of inappropriate websites keep becoming an issue.
Schools do not have a budget for a real competent staff who could configure their routers tighter than a virgin's ass with blocking search engines and non educational websites.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265399</id>
	<title>I don't know about this</title>
	<author>sunking2</author>
	<datestamp>1244561160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>So no more little johnny getting his homework done in the car, or when he's stuck at grammas. And now we have to queue up behind his sisters and brothers while they do their homework on the one machine at home.

That being said, and I haven't read the article, but the only way this would make any sense is if the state basically buys less books with an option to use an electronic one, somehow encouragine more people each year. You can't deny kids book access, and there are still quite a few people that don't own a computer. Especially in California which has a lot of low income immigrant workers. Education should be the great equalizer, not a divider between the haves and have-nots.

This would actually be a great opportunity for the Kindle people to develop a cheap yet sturdy eBook platform. I would imagine that a massive sale like 'every student in california' be a pretty good bargaining to get a good deal. If they could sell it for ~$100/ea its probably well worth it. Or offer some sort of yearly lease or something else.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So no more little johnny getting his homework done in the car , or when he 's stuck at grammas .
And now we have to queue up behind his sisters and brothers while they do their homework on the one machine at home .
That being said , and I have n't read the article , but the only way this would make any sense is if the state basically buys less books with an option to use an electronic one , somehow encouragine more people each year .
You ca n't deny kids book access , and there are still quite a few people that do n't own a computer .
Especially in California which has a lot of low income immigrant workers .
Education should be the great equalizer , not a divider between the haves and have-nots .
This would actually be a great opportunity for the Kindle people to develop a cheap yet sturdy eBook platform .
I would imagine that a massive sale like 'every student in california ' be a pretty good bargaining to get a good deal .
If they could sell it for ~ $ 100/ea its probably well worth it .
Or offer some sort of yearly lease or something else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So no more little johnny getting his homework done in the car, or when he's stuck at grammas.
And now we have to queue up behind his sisters and brothers while they do their homework on the one machine at home.
That being said, and I haven't read the article, but the only way this would make any sense is if the state basically buys less books with an option to use an electronic one, somehow encouragine more people each year.
You can't deny kids book access, and there are still quite a few people that don't own a computer.
Especially in California which has a lot of low income immigrant workers.
Education should be the great equalizer, not a divider between the haves and have-nots.
This would actually be a great opportunity for the Kindle people to develop a cheap yet sturdy eBook platform.
I would imagine that a massive sale like 'every student in california' be a pretty good bargaining to get a good deal.
If they could sell it for ~$100/ea its probably well worth it.
Or offer some sort of yearly lease or something else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265031</id>
	<title>Re:No its not...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244559600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Add to that the inability to make decent notes in the online material, or fix errors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Add to that the inability to make decent notes in the online material , or fix errors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Add to that the inability to make decent notes in the online material, or fix errors.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264549</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC</title>
	<author>murdocj</author>
	<datestamp>1244557380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The whole reason the Gubinator is talking about online books is because CA has a budget deficit that is bigger than the GNP of a lot of countries.  It's a pretty safe bet they aren't buying each kid a laptop.  And before someone trots out "oh, it's only a one time expense of $250 or $300", remember, the books are neither going to be free to buy or freely redistributable, and you are dealing with children who are pretty good at losing stuff, forgetting stuff, and trashing stuff.  This is one of those "look at me I'm tech savvy" feel good initiatives that is either going to go absolutely nowhere, or is going to further the gap between the haves and the have-nots</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The whole reason the Gubinator is talking about online books is because CA has a budget deficit that is bigger than the GNP of a lot of countries .
It 's a pretty safe bet they are n't buying each kid a laptop .
And before someone trots out " oh , it 's only a one time expense of $ 250 or $ 300 " , remember , the books are neither going to be free to buy or freely redistributable , and you are dealing with children who are pretty good at losing stuff , forgetting stuff , and trashing stuff .
This is one of those " look at me I 'm tech savvy " feel good initiatives that is either going to go absolutely nowhere , or is going to further the gap between the haves and the have-nots</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The whole reason the Gubinator is talking about online books is because CA has a budget deficit that is bigger than the GNP of a lot of countries.
It's a pretty safe bet they aren't buying each kid a laptop.
And before someone trots out "oh, it's only a one time expense of $250 or $300", remember, the books are neither going to be free to buy or freely redistributable, and you are dealing with children who are pretty good at losing stuff, forgetting stuff, and trashing stuff.
This is one of those "look at me I'm tech savvy" feel good initiatives that is either going to go absolutely nowhere, or is going to further the gap between the haves and the have-nots</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264427</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28279739</id>
	<title>Changing Times</title>
	<author>nudibranchOne</author>
	<datestamp>1244648940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Has anyone considered the possibility that someone might decide to hack into the system and change history? or change all math texts to a base 12...</p><p>And where is there any mention in the article that students would actually print out the textbooks?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone considered the possibility that someone might decide to hack into the system and change history ?
or change all math texts to a base 12...And where is there any mention in the article that students would actually print out the textbooks ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone considered the possibility that someone might decide to hack into the system and change history?
or change all math texts to a base 12...And where is there any mention in the article that students would actually print out the textbooks?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265325</id>
	<title>Worst idea</title>
	<author>Corson</author>
	<datestamp>1244560860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>A paper textbook has its advantages, for example: it doesn't require power (electricity, that is); it doesn't require an expensive electronic reader; it is not covered by DRM (I can lend it to a friend w/o RIAA et al. coming after me); and can be annotated with a pencil!</htmltext>
<tokenext>A paper textbook has its advantages , for example : it does n't require power ( electricity , that is ) ; it does n't require an expensive electronic reader ; it is not covered by DRM ( I can lend it to a friend w/o RIAA et al .
coming after me ) ; and can be annotated with a pencil !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A paper textbook has its advantages, for example: it doesn't require power (electricity, that is); it doesn't require an expensive electronic reader; it is not covered by DRM (I can lend it to a friend w/o RIAA et al.
coming after me); and can be annotated with a pencil!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268007</id>
	<title>Education Reform?</title>
	<author>mlund</author>
	<datestamp>1244571180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, if it works it'll create an new avenue through which to assault some of the corruption degrading our education systems. Text-book publishing is a giant scam. Removing the heavy overhead of print-based publishing could significantly increase competition. Perhaps schools will be able to focus on purchasing content rather than page-count. Is it too much to hope that we won't see quite so many products purchased without proof-reading? Maybe we'll see an end to needing to drop $150 for a "revised 5th edition" copy to replace the old "5th edition" copy of a book because it updates 3 typographical errors. Wouldn't that be a trip? That's not even getting started on the potential for interactive content presents over static text and diagrams.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , if it works it 'll create an new avenue through which to assault some of the corruption degrading our education systems .
Text-book publishing is a giant scam .
Removing the heavy overhead of print-based publishing could significantly increase competition .
Perhaps schools will be able to focus on purchasing content rather than page-count .
Is it too much to hope that we wo n't see quite so many products purchased without proof-reading ?
Maybe we 'll see an end to needing to drop $ 150 for a " revised 5th edition " copy to replace the old " 5th edition " copy of a book because it updates 3 typographical errors .
Would n't that be a trip ?
That 's not even getting started on the potential for interactive content presents over static text and diagrams .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, if it works it'll create an new avenue through which to assault some of the corruption degrading our education systems.
Text-book publishing is a giant scam.
Removing the heavy overhead of print-based publishing could significantly increase competition.
Perhaps schools will be able to focus on purchasing content rather than page-count.
Is it too much to hope that we won't see quite so many products purchased without proof-reading?
Maybe we'll see an end to needing to drop $150 for a "revised 5th edition" copy to replace the old "5th edition" copy of a book because it updates 3 typographical errors.
Wouldn't that be a trip?
That's not even getting started on the potential for interactive content presents over static text and diagrams.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28270819</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC</title>
	<author>Acer500</author>
	<datestamp>1244538480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The whole reason the Gubinator is talking about online books is because CA has a budget deficit that is bigger than the GNP of a lot of countries.</p></div><p>Yep, the deficit is actually about the GNP of my country (Uruguay)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:( (though I recall some statistics said that California alone would be the 6th largest country by GNP in the world)<br> <br>
Indeed, Wikipedia confirms it: </p><p><div class="quote"><p>California as an independent nation:
California compared to other countries GDP is in the same range as Spain, Italy and China (corresponding with the Department of Finance figures)<br> <br>
The economy of California is often cited for how it would compare to other countries if California were an independent nation. The statistic quoted varies widely (usually placing California between 7th and 10th) depending on the source, but also depending on the year. [17] The most recent estimates (provided by the CIA's Factbook) put California tenth.</p> </div><p> From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy\_of\_California" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy\_of\_California</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The whole reason the Gubinator is talking about online books is because CA has a budget deficit that is bigger than the GNP of a lot of countries.Yep , the deficit is actually about the GNP of my country ( Uruguay ) : ( ( though I recall some statistics said that California alone would be the 6th largest country by GNP in the world ) Indeed , Wikipedia confirms it : California as an independent nation : California compared to other countries GDP is in the same range as Spain , Italy and China ( corresponding with the Department of Finance figures ) The economy of California is often cited for how it would compare to other countries if California were an independent nation .
The statistic quoted varies widely ( usually placing California between 7th and 10th ) depending on the source , but also depending on the year .
[ 17 ] The most recent estimates ( provided by the CIA 's Factbook ) put California tenth .
From http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy \ _of \ _California [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The whole reason the Gubinator is talking about online books is because CA has a budget deficit that is bigger than the GNP of a lot of countries.Yep, the deficit is actually about the GNP of my country (Uruguay) :( (though I recall some statistics said that California alone would be the 6th largest country by GNP in the world) 
Indeed, Wikipedia confirms it: California as an independent nation:
California compared to other countries GDP is in the same range as Spain, Italy and China (corresponding with the Department of Finance figures) 
The economy of California is often cited for how it would compare to other countries if California were an independent nation.
The statistic quoted varies widely (usually placing California between 7th and 10th) depending on the source, but also depending on the year.
[17] The most recent estimates (provided by the CIA's Factbook) put California tenth.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy\_of\_California [wikipedia.org]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264549</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265155</id>
	<title>Re:Buy once - use many.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244560140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree with the premise that book publishers will milk this greatly. Unfortunately, I do not agree with the fix of mandating what a company must publish. If you are a big enough market, they'll publish it for you. There are better ways to deal with publishers and it usually involves collaborating with other consumers. If California bands with a couple other states, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to get a contract that included things like longevity of printing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with the premise that book publishers will milk this greatly .
Unfortunately , I do not agree with the fix of mandating what a company must publish .
If you are a big enough market , they 'll publish it for you .
There are better ways to deal with publishers and it usually involves collaborating with other consumers .
If California bands with a couple other states , it would n't be terribly difficult to get a contract that included things like longevity of printing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with the premise that book publishers will milk this greatly.
Unfortunately, I do not agree with the fix of mandating what a company must publish.
If you are a big enough market, they'll publish it for you.
There are better ways to deal with publishers and it usually involves collaborating with other consumers.
If California bands with a couple other states, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to get a contract that included things like longevity of printing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267017</id>
	<title>Why we are using Kindles our school.</title>
	<author>zerofoo</author>
	<datestamp>1244567400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Paper based books are still the preferred way of reading materials, but e-books perform two very unique functions for us:</p><p>Foreign newspapers:  Students get to read foreign newspapers translated to English daily.  It is difficult to do this with traditional papers.  Some foreign newspapers are not even offered in North America.</p><p>Text to speech: Dyslexic students love voice assisted reading.  It helps them just enough to encourage them to read harder materials than they would on their own.</p><p>Yes, they are expensive, and they are not spill resistant, but this interesting bit of technology does have it's uses.</p><p>I am skeptical about an e-books ability to replace all printed texts.</p><p>-ted</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Paper based books are still the preferred way of reading materials , but e-books perform two very unique functions for us : Foreign newspapers : Students get to read foreign newspapers translated to English daily .
It is difficult to do this with traditional papers .
Some foreign newspapers are not even offered in North America.Text to speech : Dyslexic students love voice assisted reading .
It helps them just enough to encourage them to read harder materials than they would on their own.Yes , they are expensive , and they are not spill resistant , but this interesting bit of technology does have it 's uses.I am skeptical about an e-books ability to replace all printed texts.-ted</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Paper based books are still the preferred way of reading materials, but e-books perform two very unique functions for us:Foreign newspapers:  Students get to read foreign newspapers translated to English daily.
It is difficult to do this with traditional papers.
Some foreign newspapers are not even offered in North America.Text to speech: Dyslexic students love voice assisted reading.
It helps them just enough to encourage them to read harder materials than they would on their own.Yes, they are expensive, and they are not spill resistant, but this interesting bit of technology does have it's uses.I am skeptical about an e-books ability to replace all printed texts.-ted</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265349</id>
	<title>Re:Excellent</title>
	<author>rhsanborn</author>
	<datestamp>1244560980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unfortunately, there is one missed point. Just because the publisher can slash the cost of a textbook because of a licensed model, doesn't mean they will, at least not dramatically. Approximately half of that 120+ dollars for a text book goes to manufacturing costs. I know this is for college texts, but I think many of the same pricing models apply to lower levels of education. <a href="http://laurafreberg.com/blog/?p=13" title="laurafreberg.com">http://laurafreberg.com/blog/?p=13</a> [laurafreberg.com]. <br> <br>Plus the publishers are drooling at what they consider a gold-mine in controlling the license. When the school loses the physical media, they lose the ability to tell the publisher to stuff it, and use last year's textbook.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately , there is one missed point .
Just because the publisher can slash the cost of a textbook because of a licensed model , does n't mean they will , at least not dramatically .
Approximately half of that 120 + dollars for a text book goes to manufacturing costs .
I know this is for college texts , but I think many of the same pricing models apply to lower levels of education .
http : //laurafreberg.com/blog/ ? p = 13 [ laurafreberg.com ] .
Plus the publishers are drooling at what they consider a gold-mine in controlling the license .
When the school loses the physical media , they lose the ability to tell the publisher to stuff it , and use last year 's textbook .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately, there is one missed point.
Just because the publisher can slash the cost of a textbook because of a licensed model, doesn't mean they will, at least not dramatically.
Approximately half of that 120+ dollars for a text book goes to manufacturing costs.
I know this is for college texts, but I think many of the same pricing models apply to lower levels of education.
http://laurafreberg.com/blog/?p=13 [laurafreberg.com].
Plus the publishers are drooling at what they consider a gold-mine in controlling the license.
When the school loses the physical media, they lose the ability to tell the publisher to stuff it, and use last year's textbook.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264789</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266315</id>
	<title>Open textbooks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244565060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First they need to solve the problem with publisher's copyright.<br>In Brazil, my home state (Paran&#195;) made a project of open textbooks. The government pay teachers to write copyright free textbooks<br>for hight school. For what I heard they have a good quality control and they are distributed for free in public schools. They are also freely available in PDF, but they are in portuguese.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First they need to solve the problem with publisher 's copyright.In Brazil , my home state ( Paran   ) made a project of open textbooks .
The government pay teachers to write copyright free textbooksfor hight school .
For what I heard they have a good quality control and they are distributed for free in public schools .
They are also freely available in PDF , but they are in portuguese .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First they need to solve the problem with publisher's copyright.In Brazil, my home state (ParanÃ) made a project of open textbooks.
The government pay teachers to write copyright free textbooksfor hight school.
For what I heard they have a good quality control and they are distributed for free in public schools.
They are also freely available in PDF, but they are in portuguese.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265923</id>
	<title>Come on guys, it's not hopeless:</title>
	<author>blind biker</author>
	<datestamp>1244563440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are some excellent textbooks available online, with renowned authors standing behind them. Please start discovering the wondeful world of <a href="http://textbookrevolution.org/index.php/Main\_Page" title="textbookrevolution.org">Textbook Revolution!</a> [textbookrevolution.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are some excellent textbooks available online , with renowned authors standing behind them .
Please start discovering the wondeful world of Textbook Revolution !
[ textbookrevolution.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are some excellent textbooks available online, with renowned authors standing behind them.
Please start discovering the wondeful world of Textbook Revolution!
[textbookrevolution.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268357</id>
	<title>Electronic Open Source Texts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244572440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why are they even paying for texts in the first place?<br>I would be enough geeks like us could write better math, science, and possible other texts then are sold old-style.<br>Time for Open Source texts to kill off the Text Book mafia system...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why are they even paying for texts in the first place ? I would be enough geeks like us could write better math , science , and possible other texts then are sold old-style.Time for Open Source texts to kill off the Text Book mafia system.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why are they even paying for texts in the first place?I would be enough geeks like us could write better math, science, and possible other texts then are sold old-style.Time for Open Source texts to kill off the Text Book mafia system...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28271619</id>
	<title>Complete waste...</title>
	<author>MaWeiTao</author>
	<datestamp>1244542020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having had experience with printing for years printing on demand is considerably more expensive than conventional offset printing at least when such large numbers are involved. This is assuming, of course, that they will be printing hard copies of electronic textbooks which they almost certainly will.</p><p>Of course, whatever vendor provides the service will almost definitely charge as much, if not more for this service than a traditional text book publisher would. The real problem here is that publishers seriously overcharge for their books. But ultimately that is the fault of buyers, in this case the schools, who don't bother shopping around and don't make any demands of the publishers. There's no need for expensive 4-color printing. There's no need for hard covers. Take a look at textbooks overseas and it because quite apparent how wasteful and overdone American textbooks are. And let's not forget that for many courses there's no need whatsoever to always acquire the latest edition.</p><p>I have friends who are already forced to use online textbooks for class and they hate it. They're accessed via a restrictive, convoluted interface. And it's far more difficult to read a computer screen than a sheet of paper. If you're ultimately going to just print the thing out why not provide the damn printed textbook to begin with?</p><p>And lets not forget that the last thing kids need is yet another distraction. It is already bad enough with my the college kids in the class I taught screwing around on chat and social networking sites during class. Imagine how much worse it would be with kids in elementary and high school. Then there's the maintenance of the computers themselves. Even college kids completely trash their machines. The university where I taught provides many, if not all, of their students with laptops and by the end of the year most of them are trashed because they're so battered.</p><p>In every possible way I can see this is pure stupidity and a complete and utter waste.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having had experience with printing for years printing on demand is considerably more expensive than conventional offset printing at least when such large numbers are involved .
This is assuming , of course , that they will be printing hard copies of electronic textbooks which they almost certainly will.Of course , whatever vendor provides the service will almost definitely charge as much , if not more for this service than a traditional text book publisher would .
The real problem here is that publishers seriously overcharge for their books .
But ultimately that is the fault of buyers , in this case the schools , who do n't bother shopping around and do n't make any demands of the publishers .
There 's no need for expensive 4-color printing .
There 's no need for hard covers .
Take a look at textbooks overseas and it because quite apparent how wasteful and overdone American textbooks are .
And let 's not forget that for many courses there 's no need whatsoever to always acquire the latest edition.I have friends who are already forced to use online textbooks for class and they hate it .
They 're accessed via a restrictive , convoluted interface .
And it 's far more difficult to read a computer screen than a sheet of paper .
If you 're ultimately going to just print the thing out why not provide the damn printed textbook to begin with ? And lets not forget that the last thing kids need is yet another distraction .
It is already bad enough with my the college kids in the class I taught screwing around on chat and social networking sites during class .
Imagine how much worse it would be with kids in elementary and high school .
Then there 's the maintenance of the computers themselves .
Even college kids completely trash their machines .
The university where I taught provides many , if not all , of their students with laptops and by the end of the year most of them are trashed because they 're so battered.In every possible way I can see this is pure stupidity and a complete and utter waste .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having had experience with printing for years printing on demand is considerably more expensive than conventional offset printing at least when such large numbers are involved.
This is assuming, of course, that they will be printing hard copies of electronic textbooks which they almost certainly will.Of course, whatever vendor provides the service will almost definitely charge as much, if not more for this service than a traditional text book publisher would.
The real problem here is that publishers seriously overcharge for their books.
But ultimately that is the fault of buyers, in this case the schools, who don't bother shopping around and don't make any demands of the publishers.
There's no need for expensive 4-color printing.
There's no need for hard covers.
Take a look at textbooks overseas and it because quite apparent how wasteful and overdone American textbooks are.
And let's not forget that for many courses there's no need whatsoever to always acquire the latest edition.I have friends who are already forced to use online textbooks for class and they hate it.
They're accessed via a restrictive, convoluted interface.
And it's far more difficult to read a computer screen than a sheet of paper.
If you're ultimately going to just print the thing out why not provide the damn printed textbook to begin with?And lets not forget that the last thing kids need is yet another distraction.
It is already bad enough with my the college kids in the class I taught screwing around on chat and social networking sites during class.
Imagine how much worse it would be with kids in elementary and high school.
Then there's the maintenance of the computers themselves.
Even college kids completely trash their machines.
The university where I taught provides many, if not all, of their students with laptops and by the end of the year most of them are trashed because they're so battered.In every possible way I can see this is pure stupidity and a complete and utter waste.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267103</id>
	<title>Re:Excellent</title>
	<author>Atryn</author>
	<datestamp>1244567640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>The school, per student, will spend about $30 dollars PER BOOK, PER STUDENT.</i> <br> <br>

Where are you getting your data?<br> <br>

Scholastic <i>Administrator</i> magazine (one of the leading ones for K-12 administration) Nov/Dec issue cover story: <i>"The End of Textbooks"</i>...<blockquote><div><p>"Typical elementary-school textbooks cost more than $100 each, and, as a result, the four largest textbook publishers rake in more than $4 billion each year. [...] Besides cost, traditional paper textbooks have other disadvantages.  They are easily damaged, and their subject matter can become outdated or obsolete in just a few years.  And any student can testify how textbooks are heavy and inconvenient..."</p></div></blockquote><p>

Its a good article and they didn't even hit on all the advantages of moving away from print... Perpetual content licensing, advance content licensing, elimination of distribution and storage, frequent updates/revisions, multiple methods of annotation, easily facilitated discussion/collaboration between students or with teachers, monitored or collected data on student use of the text, enabling of end-of-chapter quizzes to be interactive, read-aloud audio interfaces for certain students, etc, etc... I could go one and on.<br> <br>

Right now the Amazon Kindle DX is a "good" device, IMHO, for this purpose.  Give it another generation or two so the e-ink technology supports color and higher resolution, add a simple messaging system and poll/quizzing capability and you've got 90\% of the above covered.  The business model is great -- you get a networked device on a macro cellular network without the monthly fees.  Subsidized by Amazon's consumer-content driven business model and a wholesale carrier relationship.  (If every kid had a Kindle DX, where might they buy the next Harry Potter book?)...<br> <br>

I'm a bit surprised its taken so long.  But being in industry now, I can see the snails and actually watch their race with excitement.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The school , per student , will spend about $ 30 dollars PER BOOK , PER STUDENT .
Where are you getting your data ?
Scholastic Administrator magazine ( one of the leading ones for K-12 administration ) Nov/Dec issue cover story : " The End of Textbooks " ... " Typical elementary-school textbooks cost more than $ 100 each , and , as a result , the four largest textbook publishers rake in more than $ 4 billion each year .
[ ... ] Besides cost , traditional paper textbooks have other disadvantages .
They are easily damaged , and their subject matter can become outdated or obsolete in just a few years .
And any student can testify how textbooks are heavy and inconvenient... " Its a good article and they did n't even hit on all the advantages of moving away from print... Perpetual content licensing , advance content licensing , elimination of distribution and storage , frequent updates/revisions , multiple methods of annotation , easily facilitated discussion/collaboration between students or with teachers , monitored or collected data on student use of the text , enabling of end-of-chapter quizzes to be interactive , read-aloud audio interfaces for certain students , etc , etc... I could go one and on .
Right now the Amazon Kindle DX is a " good " device , IMHO , for this purpose .
Give it another generation or two so the e-ink technology supports color and higher resolution , add a simple messaging system and poll/quizzing capability and you 've got 90 \ % of the above covered .
The business model is great -- you get a networked device on a macro cellular network without the monthly fees .
Subsidized by Amazon 's consumer-content driven business model and a wholesale carrier relationship .
( If every kid had a Kindle DX , where might they buy the next Harry Potter book ? ) .. .
I 'm a bit surprised its taken so long .
But being in industry now , I can see the snails and actually watch their race with excitement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The school, per student, will spend about $30 dollars PER BOOK, PER STUDENT.
Where are you getting your data?
Scholastic Administrator magazine (one of the leading ones for K-12 administration) Nov/Dec issue cover story: "The End of Textbooks"..."Typical elementary-school textbooks cost more than $100 each, and, as a result, the four largest textbook publishers rake in more than $4 billion each year.
[...] Besides cost, traditional paper textbooks have other disadvantages.
They are easily damaged, and their subject matter can become outdated or obsolete in just a few years.
And any student can testify how textbooks are heavy and inconvenient..."

Its a good article and they didn't even hit on all the advantages of moving away from print... Perpetual content licensing, advance content licensing, elimination of distribution and storage, frequent updates/revisions, multiple methods of annotation, easily facilitated discussion/collaboration between students or with teachers, monitored or collected data on student use of the text, enabling of end-of-chapter quizzes to be interactive, read-aloud audio interfaces for certain students, etc, etc... I could go one and on.
Right now the Amazon Kindle DX is a "good" device, IMHO, for this purpose.
Give it another generation or two so the e-ink technology supports color and higher resolution, add a simple messaging system and poll/quizzing capability and you've got 90\% of the above covered.
The business model is great -- you get a networked device on a macro cellular network without the monthly fees.
Subsidized by Amazon's consumer-content driven business model and a wholesale carrier relationship.
(If every kid had a Kindle DX, where might they buy the next Harry Potter book?)...
I'm a bit surprised its taken so long.
But being in industry now, I can see the snails and actually watch their race with excitement.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264789</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266911</id>
	<title>Re:Dual-edged sword</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244567040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Keep in mind that we're talking about books for high school and lower grades, where writing in the margins isn't allowed because the books are re-used for several years and not the property of the students.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Keep in mind that we 're talking about books for high school and lower grades , where writing in the margins is n't allowed because the books are re-used for several years and not the property of the students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keep in mind that we're talking about books for high school and lower grades, where writing in the margins isn't allowed because the books are re-used for several years and not the property of the students.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264941</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264553</id>
	<title>Re:No its not...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244557440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>stfu. No seriously, stfu. what's always focusing on the downside of things? Reading your post almost made my head explode in rage.</htmltext>
<tokenext>stfu .
No seriously , stfu .
what 's always focusing on the downside of things ?
Reading your post almost made my head explode in rage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>stfu.
No seriously, stfu.
what's always focusing on the downside of things?
Reading your post almost made my head explode in rage.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28274841</id>
	<title>Re:Wifes school already did this</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1244565060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is a problem because the lawyers feel the teacher is 100\% responsible 100\% of all the viewing on all 30 laptops.</p></div><p>That's strange.  When I was in high school, I felt <em>I</em> was 100\% responsible for what I did with school computers.  As long as I didn't put poledit.exe (which would circumvent a big part of the security...) on the network drive, it was free reign.  Looking at women, downloading music,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....</p><p>I understand one reason for outrage: taxpayers pay big money for that bandwidth with the expectation that it's used to further my <em>education</em>, so that resource shouldn't be wasted on my personal business.  Fair enough.</p><p>Was there another argument?  14-year old boys who actively seek out porn are going to be damaged by looking at porn?  Dudewaitwhat?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a problem because the lawyers feel the teacher is 100 \ % responsible 100 \ % of all the viewing on all 30 laptops.That 's strange .
When I was in high school , I felt I was 100 \ % responsible for what I did with school computers .
As long as I did n't put poledit.exe ( which would circumvent a big part of the security... ) on the network drive , it was free reign .
Looking at women , downloading music , ....I understand one reason for outrage : taxpayers pay big money for that bandwidth with the expectation that it 's used to further my education , so that resource should n't be wasted on my personal business .
Fair enough.Was there another argument ?
14-year old boys who actively seek out porn are going to be damaged by looking at porn ?
Dudewaitwhat ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a problem because the lawyers feel the teacher is 100\% responsible 100\% of all the viewing on all 30 laptops.That's strange.
When I was in high school, I felt I was 100\% responsible for what I did with school computers.
As long as I didn't put poledit.exe (which would circumvent a big part of the security...) on the network drive, it was free reign.
Looking at women, downloading music, ....I understand one reason for outrage: taxpayers pay big money for that bandwidth with the expectation that it's used to further my education, so that resource shouldn't be wasted on my personal business.
Fair enough.Was there another argument?
14-year old boys who actively seek out porn are going to be damaged by looking at porn?
Dudewaitwhat?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265561</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266247</id>
	<title>I'm participating in this as an author.</title>
	<author>bcrowell</author>
	<datestamp>1244564640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm participating in <a href="http://clrn.org/FDTI/index.cfm" title="clrn.org">the CLRN Free Digital Textbook Initiative</a> [clrn.org] as the author of <a href="http://www.lightandmatter.com/books.html" title="lightandmatter.com">a physics book</a> [lightandmatter.com]. <a href="http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/10/1815215" title="slashdot.org">When this was discussed on slashdot recently</a> [slashdot.org], I posted skeptically. The same day, I got an email from Brian Bridges, the director of CLRN, saying that he'd seen my slashdot post, and he wanted to reassure me that it really was going to happen. They'd already made a list of potential candidates who they wanted submissions from, and I was on it. I had to go through my books and figure out how they correlated with the <a href="http://clrn.org/FDTI/correlations/Physics\_Standards\_Correlations.doc" title="clrn.org">list of topics (Word document)</a> [clrn.org] that the state standards say are supposed to be covered in high school physics. Then there was a process where I had to set up an account on their server, fill out some online forms, and upload the Word file showing how my topics correlated with the standards.</p><p>
There does seem to be somewhat of a fog of uncertainty surrounding this whole thing. One thing I've noticed is that although Schwarzenegger has named three top-level state education officials who are supposed to carry this out, some of these people are actually his political opponents. In case anyone hasn't noticed, this is all motivated by the hellish California state budget situation. <a href="http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/california-launches-open-source-digital-textbook-initiative.ars" title="arstechnica.com">This article</a> [arstechnica.com] has some useful information about California's dysfunctional textbook selection system, and a previous, unsuccessful free-textbook effort called COSTP, where the state tried to produce a history textbook via <a href="http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Main\_Page" title="wikibooks.org">wikibooks.org</a> [wikibooks.org]. The present effort seems to be doing a pretty good job of eliminating the bureaucratic obstacles; Bridges sent me a detailed email explaining how to fill out all the forms, saying what it was safe to leave blank, etc.
</p><p>One thing that I wasn't very clear on before was whether they envisioned this as something that would involve traditional textbook publishers, individual authors who'd put their own stuff on the web, or both. Although I'm sure they don't want to arbitrarily tell certain private entities, like the traditional publishers, that they can't participate, it seems clear to me now that it's aimed at the nontraditional folks like me. Note the word "free" in the name of <a href="http://clrn.org/FDTI/index.cfm" title="clrn.org">the initiative</a> [clrn.org]. No traditional publisher is going to give their book away for free in digital form. It's true that the big college and high school textbook publishers are very actively involved in an effort to distribute a lot of their books in digital form, but not for free. From what I've observed at the community college where I teach, the idea seems to be to get students to rent DRM'd textbooks. When the student stops paying the rent, they can no longer use the book. This would have the effect of eliminating the used book market, which the publishers hate with a passion. (That's the reason they bring out new editions so frequently.) So no, I don't think any traditional publishers will participate. The general picture really does seem to be that they're doing this as an alternative to the traditional publishers.  Further circumstantial evidence comes from the fact that the state has already tried to do a collaboration with wikibooks. One big question in my mind is whether there will be a giant push-back from the traditional publishers to keep this from happening. Seems like a no-brainer if it really advances to the stage where their market is threatened.
</p><p>
A lot of the slashdot posts so far have been about the issue of how students will access the books. Since the initiative has "Free" in the name, I don't think we're going to see too many barriers to access here (rentals, DRM, logging in to a web site to access the book, etc.). Taking my own books as</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm participating in the CLRN Free Digital Textbook Initiative [ clrn.org ] as the author of a physics book [ lightandmatter.com ] .
When this was discussed on slashdot recently [ slashdot.org ] , I posted skeptically .
The same day , I got an email from Brian Bridges , the director of CLRN , saying that he 'd seen my slashdot post , and he wanted to reassure me that it really was going to happen .
They 'd already made a list of potential candidates who they wanted submissions from , and I was on it .
I had to go through my books and figure out how they correlated with the list of topics ( Word document ) [ clrn.org ] that the state standards say are supposed to be covered in high school physics .
Then there was a process where I had to set up an account on their server , fill out some online forms , and upload the Word file showing how my topics correlated with the standards .
There does seem to be somewhat of a fog of uncertainty surrounding this whole thing .
One thing I 've noticed is that although Schwarzenegger has named three top-level state education officials who are supposed to carry this out , some of these people are actually his political opponents .
In case anyone has n't noticed , this is all motivated by the hellish California state budget situation .
This article [ arstechnica.com ] has some useful information about California 's dysfunctional textbook selection system , and a previous , unsuccessful free-textbook effort called COSTP , where the state tried to produce a history textbook via wikibooks.org [ wikibooks.org ] .
The present effort seems to be doing a pretty good job of eliminating the bureaucratic obstacles ; Bridges sent me a detailed email explaining how to fill out all the forms , saying what it was safe to leave blank , etc .
One thing that I was n't very clear on before was whether they envisioned this as something that would involve traditional textbook publishers , individual authors who 'd put their own stuff on the web , or both .
Although I 'm sure they do n't want to arbitrarily tell certain private entities , like the traditional publishers , that they ca n't participate , it seems clear to me now that it 's aimed at the nontraditional folks like me .
Note the word " free " in the name of the initiative [ clrn.org ] .
No traditional publisher is going to give their book away for free in digital form .
It 's true that the big college and high school textbook publishers are very actively involved in an effort to distribute a lot of their books in digital form , but not for free .
From what I 've observed at the community college where I teach , the idea seems to be to get students to rent DRM 'd textbooks .
When the student stops paying the rent , they can no longer use the book .
This would have the effect of eliminating the used book market , which the publishers hate with a passion .
( That 's the reason they bring out new editions so frequently .
) So no , I do n't think any traditional publishers will participate .
The general picture really does seem to be that they 're doing this as an alternative to the traditional publishers .
Further circumstantial evidence comes from the fact that the state has already tried to do a collaboration with wikibooks .
One big question in my mind is whether there will be a giant push-back from the traditional publishers to keep this from happening .
Seems like a no-brainer if it really advances to the stage where their market is threatened .
A lot of the slashdot posts so far have been about the issue of how students will access the books .
Since the initiative has " Free " in the name , I do n't think we 're going to see too many barriers to access here ( rentals , DRM , logging in to a web site to access the book , etc. ) .
Taking my own books as</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm participating in the CLRN Free Digital Textbook Initiative [clrn.org] as the author of a physics book [lightandmatter.com].
When this was discussed on slashdot recently [slashdot.org], I posted skeptically.
The same day, I got an email from Brian Bridges, the director of CLRN, saying that he'd seen my slashdot post, and he wanted to reassure me that it really was going to happen.
They'd already made a list of potential candidates who they wanted submissions from, and I was on it.
I had to go through my books and figure out how they correlated with the list of topics (Word document) [clrn.org] that the state standards say are supposed to be covered in high school physics.
Then there was a process where I had to set up an account on their server, fill out some online forms, and upload the Word file showing how my topics correlated with the standards.
There does seem to be somewhat of a fog of uncertainty surrounding this whole thing.
One thing I've noticed is that although Schwarzenegger has named three top-level state education officials who are supposed to carry this out, some of these people are actually his political opponents.
In case anyone hasn't noticed, this is all motivated by the hellish California state budget situation.
This article [arstechnica.com] has some useful information about California's dysfunctional textbook selection system, and a previous, unsuccessful free-textbook effort called COSTP, where the state tried to produce a history textbook via wikibooks.org [wikibooks.org].
The present effort seems to be doing a pretty good job of eliminating the bureaucratic obstacles; Bridges sent me a detailed email explaining how to fill out all the forms, saying what it was safe to leave blank, etc.
One thing that I wasn't very clear on before was whether they envisioned this as something that would involve traditional textbook publishers, individual authors who'd put their own stuff on the web, or both.
Although I'm sure they don't want to arbitrarily tell certain private entities, like the traditional publishers, that they can't participate, it seems clear to me now that it's aimed at the nontraditional folks like me.
Note the word "free" in the name of the initiative [clrn.org].
No traditional publisher is going to give their book away for free in digital form.
It's true that the big college and high school textbook publishers are very actively involved in an effort to distribute a lot of their books in digital form, but not for free.
From what I've observed at the community college where I teach, the idea seems to be to get students to rent DRM'd textbooks.
When the student stops paying the rent, they can no longer use the book.
This would have the effect of eliminating the used book market, which the publishers hate with a passion.
(That's the reason they bring out new editions so frequently.
) So no, I don't think any traditional publishers will participate.
The general picture really does seem to be that they're doing this as an alternative to the traditional publishers.
Further circumstantial evidence comes from the fact that the state has already tried to do a collaboration with wikibooks.
One big question in my mind is whether there will be a giant push-back from the traditional publishers to keep this from happening.
Seems like a no-brainer if it really advances to the stage where their market is threatened.
A lot of the slashdot posts so far have been about the issue of how students will access the books.
Since the initiative has "Free" in the name, I don't think we're going to see too many barriers to access here (rentals, DRM, logging in to a web site to access the book, etc.).
Taking my own books as</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265875</id>
	<title>Open Source the curriculum (Arnold is doing that)</title>
	<author>XB-70</author>
	<datestamp>1244563260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>California has a plan to open source the curriculum. I see this as a monitored wiki wherein approvals are met for curriculum revisions. With this in place, whether you want hard or digital copies, the distribution option remains for the user/teacher/school board, not the publisher/rights holder.

<p>Furthermore, the entire curriculum could be on a CD (for those without internet) and distributed every year.

</p><p>The biggest issue here is changing the infrastructure of the delivery of the information. Let's look closely at the lessons of the City of Munich and apply them at the state and school board level. Get rid of proprietary software for most users. Stabilize to a Linux-based platform (LTSP/OLPC?) and be done with huge hardware upgrade costs. Reduce (mostly eliminate) viruses. Give out older machines with OpenOffice and Linux to disadvantaged students. Level the playing field.

</p><p>That's how you effect real change, but the reality is that it takes a huge will to do it. Long-term, the savings are permanent and irrefutable.

</p><p>Knowledge is good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>California has a plan to open source the curriculum .
I see this as a monitored wiki wherein approvals are met for curriculum revisions .
With this in place , whether you want hard or digital copies , the distribution option remains for the user/teacher/school board , not the publisher/rights holder .
Furthermore , the entire curriculum could be on a CD ( for those without internet ) and distributed every year .
The biggest issue here is changing the infrastructure of the delivery of the information .
Let 's look closely at the lessons of the City of Munich and apply them at the state and school board level .
Get rid of proprietary software for most users .
Stabilize to a Linux-based platform ( LTSP/OLPC ?
) and be done with huge hardware upgrade costs .
Reduce ( mostly eliminate ) viruses .
Give out older machines with OpenOffice and Linux to disadvantaged students .
Level the playing field .
That 's how you effect real change , but the reality is that it takes a huge will to do it .
Long-term , the savings are permanent and irrefutable .
Knowledge is good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>California has a plan to open source the curriculum.
I see this as a monitored wiki wherein approvals are met for curriculum revisions.
With this in place, whether you want hard or digital copies, the distribution option remains for the user/teacher/school board, not the publisher/rights holder.
Furthermore, the entire curriculum could be on a CD (for those without internet) and distributed every year.
The biggest issue here is changing the infrastructure of the delivery of the information.
Let's look closely at the lessons of the City of Munich and apply them at the state and school board level.
Get rid of proprietary software for most users.
Stabilize to a Linux-based platform (LTSP/OLPC?
) and be done with huge hardware upgrade costs.
Reduce (mostly eliminate) viruses.
Give out older machines with OpenOffice and Linux to disadvantaged students.
Level the playing field.
That's how you effect real change, but the reality is that it takes a huge will to do it.
Long-term, the savings are permanent and irrefutable.
Knowledge is good.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266945</id>
	<title>Administration doesn't get it</title>
	<author>stewbacca</author>
	<datestamp>1244567160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Schwarzenegger believes internet (sic) activities such as Facebook, Twitter and downloading to iPods show that young people are the first to adopt new online technologies and that the internet (sic) is the best way to learn in classrooms<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>Close.  The Internet is not necessarily the "best" way to learn, but it is a method easily dismissed by most teachers and administrators.  Administration, however, spends more time trying to figure out how to BLOCK these technologies instead of trying to figure out how to successfully implement them into the curriculum.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Schwarzenegger believes internet ( sic ) activities such as Facebook , Twitter and downloading to iPods show that young people are the first to adopt new online technologies and that the internet ( sic ) is the best way to learn in classrooms ...Close .
The Internet is not necessarily the " best " way to learn , but it is a method easily dismissed by most teachers and administrators .
Administration , however , spends more time trying to figure out how to BLOCK these technologies instead of trying to figure out how to successfully implement them into the curriculum .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Schwarzenegger believes internet (sic) activities such as Facebook, Twitter and downloading to iPods show that young people are the first to adopt new online technologies and that the internet (sic) is the best way to learn in classrooms ...Close.
The Internet is not necessarily the "best" way to learn, but it is a method easily dismissed by most teachers and administrators.
Administration, however, spends more time trying to figure out how to BLOCK these technologies instead of trying to figure out how to successfully implement them into the curriculum.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265013</id>
	<title>Re:online lectures, not books</title>
	<author>ocdude</author>
	<datestamp>1244559480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is actually starting to happen on my campus. Right now we have one set method of providing online courses through a learning management system (moodle) and a pilot of streaming the video and slides or  providing downloadable audio podcasts of lectures. We are piloting another system this coming fall that should be more scalable.</p><p>The problem is a bit two-fold. My department has been tasked with managing and supporting all of these applications. We have a skeleton staff as it is, and with the budget cuts it's getting harder to justify the money to hire student assistants (even through financial aid). Right now I've been placed in charge of mapping out our help desk for these applications with three students and myself doing the support work for 1,700 faculty and way too many students (about 30,000? I don't remember the number). College departments are coming to us to put materials online because they cannot afford paper. They have no interest in actually progressing and moving into the 21st century, but are forced to digitize materials due to lack of funds. If it were up to some of these departments, we'd still be using chalk on slates.</p><p>The other part of the problem is actually maintaining the systems. We have three system administrators who have to balance time with supporting the servers running the applications and our internal office networks. These people, unfortunately, also get "borrowed" by whatever department on campus needs to supplement their IT staff (or lack thereof) when doing academically related projects. All of this with a shrinking budget and absurdly high expectations from the University.</p><p>All this talk and movement of materials online is great. It provides more access to students exactly in your situation that would prefer learning at his or her own pace and time. Our campus is a major commuter school and apparently 80\% of our students work on top of full loads of classes, with something like 60\% of those working full time. Being able to do course materials (for the most part) without coming on to campus is a big plus. However, people also need to realize that doing this also shifts the pain of funding books monetarily onto departments that are already stretched to capacity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is actually starting to happen on my campus .
Right now we have one set method of providing online courses through a learning management system ( moodle ) and a pilot of streaming the video and slides or providing downloadable audio podcasts of lectures .
We are piloting another system this coming fall that should be more scalable.The problem is a bit two-fold .
My department has been tasked with managing and supporting all of these applications .
We have a skeleton staff as it is , and with the budget cuts it 's getting harder to justify the money to hire student assistants ( even through financial aid ) .
Right now I 've been placed in charge of mapping out our help desk for these applications with three students and myself doing the support work for 1,700 faculty and way too many students ( about 30,000 ?
I do n't remember the number ) .
College departments are coming to us to put materials online because they can not afford paper .
They have no interest in actually progressing and moving into the 21st century , but are forced to digitize materials due to lack of funds .
If it were up to some of these departments , we 'd still be using chalk on slates.The other part of the problem is actually maintaining the systems .
We have three system administrators who have to balance time with supporting the servers running the applications and our internal office networks .
These people , unfortunately , also get " borrowed " by whatever department on campus needs to supplement their IT staff ( or lack thereof ) when doing academically related projects .
All of this with a shrinking budget and absurdly high expectations from the University.All this talk and movement of materials online is great .
It provides more access to students exactly in your situation that would prefer learning at his or her own pace and time .
Our campus is a major commuter school and apparently 80 \ % of our students work on top of full loads of classes , with something like 60 \ % of those working full time .
Being able to do course materials ( for the most part ) without coming on to campus is a big plus .
However , people also need to realize that doing this also shifts the pain of funding books monetarily onto departments that are already stretched to capacity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is actually starting to happen on my campus.
Right now we have one set method of providing online courses through a learning management system (moodle) and a pilot of streaming the video and slides or  providing downloadable audio podcasts of lectures.
We are piloting another system this coming fall that should be more scalable.The problem is a bit two-fold.
My department has been tasked with managing and supporting all of these applications.
We have a skeleton staff as it is, and with the budget cuts it's getting harder to justify the money to hire student assistants (even through financial aid).
Right now I've been placed in charge of mapping out our help desk for these applications with three students and myself doing the support work for 1,700 faculty and way too many students (about 30,000?
I don't remember the number).
College departments are coming to us to put materials online because they cannot afford paper.
They have no interest in actually progressing and moving into the 21st century, but are forced to digitize materials due to lack of funds.
If it were up to some of these departments, we'd still be using chalk on slates.The other part of the problem is actually maintaining the systems.
We have three system administrators who have to balance time with supporting the servers running the applications and our internal office networks.
These people, unfortunately, also get "borrowed" by whatever department on campus needs to supplement their IT staff (or lack thereof) when doing academically related projects.
All of this with a shrinking budget and absurdly high expectations from the University.All this talk and movement of materials online is great.
It provides more access to students exactly in your situation that would prefer learning at his or her own pace and time.
Our campus is a major commuter school and apparently 80\% of our students work on top of full loads of classes, with something like 60\% of those working full time.
Being able to do course materials (for the most part) without coming on to campus is a big plus.
However, people also need to realize that doing this also shifts the pain of funding books monetarily onto departments that are already stretched to capacity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267375</id>
	<title>How long will that be a valid excuse?</title>
	<author>King\_TJ</author>
	<datestamp>1244568540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There was a time when the idea of calling Internet access a "utility" rubbed me the wrong way.  But as times have changed, I'm starting to agree more and more with taking that view of it.  After all, electricity wasn't something it was fair to assume was in everyone's home, at one point in time.  What about those poor school students back then, who wouldn't have sufficient light to read their textbooks by and do homework by after the sun went down?  Was it fair to issue them printed books, forcing them to make do with candle-light or oil lamps?</p><p>I know where I live, there are quite a few people living in "ghetto" neighborhoods, who barely have money to keep their roofs over their heads, yet they've got broadband DSL Internet access.  That's because they receive it at a subsidized rate.  (There's that little regulatory fee you pay each month on your AT&amp;T DSL bill that goes to that sort of thing.)</p><p>And sure, they may not be able to afford a *new* computer, but come on!  A quick look on Craigslist on any day of the week will net you literally hundreds of "for sale" ads with people trying to unload a perfectly good used Dell, HP or other desktop PC complete with monitor for $50-75.  Practically everyone I know into computers as a hobby has at least 1 or 2 extra computers sitting in a closet or garage that they'd happily DONATE for free to someone in need.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There was a time when the idea of calling Internet access a " utility " rubbed me the wrong way .
But as times have changed , I 'm starting to agree more and more with taking that view of it .
After all , electricity was n't something it was fair to assume was in everyone 's home , at one point in time .
What about those poor school students back then , who would n't have sufficient light to read their textbooks by and do homework by after the sun went down ?
Was it fair to issue them printed books , forcing them to make do with candle-light or oil lamps ? I know where I live , there are quite a few people living in " ghetto " neighborhoods , who barely have money to keep their roofs over their heads , yet they 've got broadband DSL Internet access .
That 's because they receive it at a subsidized rate .
( There 's that little regulatory fee you pay each month on your AT&amp;T DSL bill that goes to that sort of thing .
) And sure , they may not be able to afford a * new * computer , but come on !
A quick look on Craigslist on any day of the week will net you literally hundreds of " for sale " ads with people trying to unload a perfectly good used Dell , HP or other desktop PC complete with monitor for $ 50-75 .
Practically everyone I know into computers as a hobby has at least 1 or 2 extra computers sitting in a closet or garage that they 'd happily DONATE for free to someone in need .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There was a time when the idea of calling Internet access a "utility" rubbed me the wrong way.
But as times have changed, I'm starting to agree more and more with taking that view of it.
After all, electricity wasn't something it was fair to assume was in everyone's home, at one point in time.
What about those poor school students back then, who wouldn't have sufficient light to read their textbooks by and do homework by after the sun went down?
Was it fair to issue them printed books, forcing them to make do with candle-light or oil lamps?I know where I live, there are quite a few people living in "ghetto" neighborhoods, who barely have money to keep their roofs over their heads, yet they've got broadband DSL Internet access.
That's because they receive it at a subsidized rate.
(There's that little regulatory fee you pay each month on your AT&amp;T DSL bill that goes to that sort of thing.
)And sure, they may not be able to afford a *new* computer, but come on!
A quick look on Craigslist on any day of the week will net you literally hundreds of "for sale" ads with people trying to unload a perfectly good used Dell, HP or other desktop PC complete with monitor for $50-75.
Practically everyone I know into computers as a hobby has at least 1 or 2 extra computers sitting in a closet or garage that they'd happily DONATE for free to someone in need.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264745</id>
	<title>This should be on a course-by-course basis</title>
	<author>davidwr</author>
	<datestamp>1244558340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are some courses, like literature, where the primary textbook is something best read curled up in a chair.</p><p>There are others, such as some sciences, economics, and anything involving current events or current technology, where textbooks are obsolete before they are printed.</p><p>There are still others, like PE, some fine arts, and most vocational training, where traditional textbooks were never an issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are some courses , like literature , where the primary textbook is something best read curled up in a chair.There are others , such as some sciences , economics , and anything involving current events or current technology , where textbooks are obsolete before they are printed.There are still others , like PE , some fine arts , and most vocational training , where traditional textbooks were never an issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are some courses, like literature, where the primary textbook is something best read curled up in a chair.There are others, such as some sciences, economics, and anything involving current events or current technology, where textbooks are obsolete before they are printed.There are still others, like PE, some fine arts, and most vocational training, where traditional textbooks were never an issue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266161</id>
	<title>one thing is for sure</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244564280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; the internet is the best way to learn in classrooms</p><p>at least students will know about the birds and the bees now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; the internet is the best way to learn in classroomsat least students will know about the birds and the bees now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; the internet is the best way to learn in classroomsat least students will know about the birds and the bees now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267825</id>
	<title>Re:Are creative commons textbooks too far away?</title>
	<author>cdrguru</author>
	<datestamp>1244570400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obviously you have no idea how many such textbooks are available today.  Sure, they can today choose from literally thousands of math textbooks.  Most of these are written by people focused on new and "improved" ways to illustrate math concepts, both at an elementary and higher education levels.  While the basic concepts of mathematics haven't changed in a while, every year someone comes up with what they think will be the new and improved way to teach people math.</p><p>So how exactly does a school district decide on a textbook?  It is very difficult in many cases, so difficult that a lot of districts let someone else do it.  They simply take the selection of some other district or state level body.  The states will oten simply adopt what some other state has already done or (worse, in my opinion) take the advice of some local university that spent a few months studying a new and trendy textbook.</p><p>The end result is there are plenty to choose from out there.  But selecting one from the volume of what is available is extremely difficult.  Getting some unknown graduate student to write a new textbook would be extremely risky, in an environment that is rather adverse to risk.  After all, if you select a textbook for third grade math that is incomprehensible to the students, they lose a year of education.  Parents aren't all that happy about it and in some locations can sue the Board of Education, the principal and the teacher for damaging their child.</p><p>My sister was the victim of such an experiment.  She got a new "phonetic" book for first grade reading.  The result was that she did not learn to read, and neither did much of the rest of the first grade class using the new book.  She repeated first grade at a different school.  This was in a far less litigious time when suing the school simply wouldn't have occured to most people.  Alas, she lost a year of her life to a failed textbook.</p><p>So let's think about what might actually be involved in creating and selecting a textbook.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously you have no idea how many such textbooks are available today .
Sure , they can today choose from literally thousands of math textbooks .
Most of these are written by people focused on new and " improved " ways to illustrate math concepts , both at an elementary and higher education levels .
While the basic concepts of mathematics have n't changed in a while , every year someone comes up with what they think will be the new and improved way to teach people math.So how exactly does a school district decide on a textbook ?
It is very difficult in many cases , so difficult that a lot of districts let someone else do it .
They simply take the selection of some other district or state level body .
The states will oten simply adopt what some other state has already done or ( worse , in my opinion ) take the advice of some local university that spent a few months studying a new and trendy textbook.The end result is there are plenty to choose from out there .
But selecting one from the volume of what is available is extremely difficult .
Getting some unknown graduate student to write a new textbook would be extremely risky , in an environment that is rather adverse to risk .
After all , if you select a textbook for third grade math that is incomprehensible to the students , they lose a year of education .
Parents are n't all that happy about it and in some locations can sue the Board of Education , the principal and the teacher for damaging their child.My sister was the victim of such an experiment .
She got a new " phonetic " book for first grade reading .
The result was that she did not learn to read , and neither did much of the rest of the first grade class using the new book .
She repeated first grade at a different school .
This was in a far less litigious time when suing the school simply would n't have occured to most people .
Alas , she lost a year of her life to a failed textbook.So let 's think about what might actually be involved in creating and selecting a textbook .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously you have no idea how many such textbooks are available today.
Sure, they can today choose from literally thousands of math textbooks.
Most of these are written by people focused on new and "improved" ways to illustrate math concepts, both at an elementary and higher education levels.
While the basic concepts of mathematics haven't changed in a while, every year someone comes up with what they think will be the new and improved way to teach people math.So how exactly does a school district decide on a textbook?
It is very difficult in many cases, so difficult that a lot of districts let someone else do it.
They simply take the selection of some other district or state level body.
The states will oten simply adopt what some other state has already done or (worse, in my opinion) take the advice of some local university that spent a few months studying a new and trendy textbook.The end result is there are plenty to choose from out there.
But selecting one from the volume of what is available is extremely difficult.
Getting some unknown graduate student to write a new textbook would be extremely risky, in an environment that is rather adverse to risk.
After all, if you select a textbook for third grade math that is incomprehensible to the students, they lose a year of education.
Parents aren't all that happy about it and in some locations can sue the Board of Education, the principal and the teacher for damaging their child.My sister was the victim of such an experiment.
She got a new "phonetic" book for first grade reading.
The result was that she did not learn to read, and neither did much of the rest of the first grade class using the new book.
She repeated first grade at a different school.
This was in a far less litigious time when suing the school simply wouldn't have occured to most people.
Alas, she lost a year of her life to a failed textbook.So let's think about what might actually be involved in creating and selecting a textbook.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266977</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264519</id>
	<title>online lectures, not books</title>
	<author>alegrepublic</author>
	<datestamp>1244557260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Online books are not a very good idea. Books are still better for reading and studying, and the technology for ebooks is still not good enough to mimic all features of real books. Video, on the other hand, is already good enough to have online lectures. I know, because my university does it, and I took some classes where I only went to the classroom to take the tests. I watched all lectures at my own pace in the comfort of my room, and I feel it made no difference whatsoever. Actually, I am sometimes bored in a classroom lecture and wished I could just press the pause button on the teacher, go for a coffe and come back without missing anything. So, I find online lectures just as effective as live lectures but much more convenient, and the interactive aspect can also be taken care of by using email and online forums. So, I think the Governor should re-examine the issue and maybe get rid of schools but keep the books. I am not kidding.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Online books are not a very good idea .
Books are still better for reading and studying , and the technology for ebooks is still not good enough to mimic all features of real books .
Video , on the other hand , is already good enough to have online lectures .
I know , because my university does it , and I took some classes where I only went to the classroom to take the tests .
I watched all lectures at my own pace in the comfort of my room , and I feel it made no difference whatsoever .
Actually , I am sometimes bored in a classroom lecture and wished I could just press the pause button on the teacher , go for a coffe and come back without missing anything .
So , I find online lectures just as effective as live lectures but much more convenient , and the interactive aspect can also be taken care of by using email and online forums .
So , I think the Governor should re-examine the issue and maybe get rid of schools but keep the books .
I am not kidding .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Online books are not a very good idea.
Books are still better for reading and studying, and the technology for ebooks is still not good enough to mimic all features of real books.
Video, on the other hand, is already good enough to have online lectures.
I know, because my university does it, and I took some classes where I only went to the classroom to take the tests.
I watched all lectures at my own pace in the comfort of my room, and I feel it made no difference whatsoever.
Actually, I am sometimes bored in a classroom lecture and wished I could just press the pause button on the teacher, go for a coffe and come back without missing anything.
So, I find online lectures just as effective as live lectures but much more convenient, and the interactive aspect can also be taken care of by using email and online forums.
So, I think the Governor should re-examine the issue and maybe get rid of schools but keep the books.
I am not kidding.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265377</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244561100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>but lets remember not everyone has or can afford Internet access and the things to go with it (like a computer)</p></div><p>Not only that, but if you already have a computer at home you'll probably need a second one. After all, if your kid is tied to the computer for hours a day doing their homework, you no longer have a computer your kid does. So to save the government the cost of providing course materials to the kids, at least part of the cost is being passed off to the parents via the need for computer, internet connectivity etc. Also, teachers like to have kids read out of the book in class, does this mean that every class will need enough computers for everyone? Or are they going to supply the kids with Kindles or something?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>but lets remember not everyone has or can afford Internet access and the things to go with it ( like a computer ) Not only that , but if you already have a computer at home you 'll probably need a second one .
After all , if your kid is tied to the computer for hours a day doing their homework , you no longer have a computer your kid does .
So to save the government the cost of providing course materials to the kids , at least part of the cost is being passed off to the parents via the need for computer , internet connectivity etc .
Also , teachers like to have kids read out of the book in class , does this mean that every class will need enough computers for everyone ?
Or are they going to supply the kids with Kindles or something ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but lets remember not everyone has or can afford Internet access and the things to go with it (like a computer)Not only that, but if you already have a computer at home you'll probably need a second one.
After all, if your kid is tied to the computer for hours a day doing their homework, you no longer have a computer your kid does.
So to save the government the cost of providing course materials to the kids, at least part of the cost is being passed off to the parents via the need for computer, internet connectivity etc.
Also, teachers like to have kids read out of the book in class, does this mean that every class will need enough computers for everyone?
Or are they going to supply the kids with Kindles or something?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265261</id>
	<title>On the other hand</title>
	<author>Dripdry</author>
	<datestamp>1244560680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Could this start pushing some books out of the richer schools and into the hands of people who need them?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could this start pushing some books out of the richer schools and into the hands of people who need them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could this start pushing some books out of the richer schools and into the hands of people who need them?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267835</id>
	<title>Re:No its not...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244570400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The books could be on an e-book reader (cheaper than two college text books, and reusable) and since Cal. is looking into Open Source Text books only one e-reader needs the book to populate the class.  Internet doesn't have to be a factor with mesh distributed networks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The books could be on an e-book reader ( cheaper than two college text books , and reusable ) and since Cal .
is looking into Open Source Text books only one e-reader needs the book to populate the class .
Internet does n't have to be a factor with mesh distributed networks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The books could be on an e-book reader (cheaper than two college text books, and reusable) and since Cal.
is looking into Open Source Text books only one e-reader needs the book to populate the class.
Internet doesn't have to be a factor with mesh distributed networks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266501</id>
	<title>SchoolBooks(tm)</title>
	<author>Chelloveck</author>
	<datestamp>1244565840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As foreseen by Cory Doctorow in <i> <a href="http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/" title="craphound.com">Little Brother</a> [craphound.com] </i>!</p><blockquote><div><p>I got back to class and sat down again, Ms Galvez warmly welcoming me back. I unpacked the school's standard-issue machine and got back into classroom mode. The SchoolBooks were the snitchiest technology of them all, logging every keystroke, watching all the network traffic for suspicious keywords, counting every click, keeping track of every fleeting thought you put out over the net. We'd gotten them in my junior year, and it only took a couple months for the shininess to wear off. Once people figured out that these "free" laptops worked for the man -- and showed a never-ending parade of obnoxious ads to boot -- they suddenly started to feel very heavy and burdensome.</p></div></blockquote><p>Gotta run! I'm late for Harajuku Fun Madness!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As foreseen by Cory Doctorow in Little Brother [ craphound.com ] ! I got back to class and sat down again , Ms Galvez warmly welcoming me back .
I unpacked the school 's standard-issue machine and got back into classroom mode .
The SchoolBooks were the snitchiest technology of them all , logging every keystroke , watching all the network traffic for suspicious keywords , counting every click , keeping track of every fleeting thought you put out over the net .
We 'd gotten them in my junior year , and it only took a couple months for the shininess to wear off .
Once people figured out that these " free " laptops worked for the man -- and showed a never-ending parade of obnoxious ads to boot -- they suddenly started to feel very heavy and burdensome.Got ta run !
I 'm late for Harajuku Fun Madness !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As foreseen by Cory Doctorow in  Little Brother [craphound.com] !I got back to class and sat down again, Ms Galvez warmly welcoming me back.
I unpacked the school's standard-issue machine and got back into classroom mode.
The SchoolBooks were the snitchiest technology of them all, logging every keystroke, watching all the network traffic for suspicious keywords, counting every click, keeping track of every fleeting thought you put out over the net.
We'd gotten them in my junior year, and it only took a couple months for the shininess to wear off.
Once people figured out that these "free" laptops worked for the man -- and showed a never-ending parade of obnoxious ads to boot -- they suddenly started to feel very heavy and burdensome.Gotta run!
I'm late for Harajuku Fun Madness!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28269715</id>
	<title>Have y'all been following this crises?</title>
	<author>sckeener</author>
	<datestamp>1244577180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My goodness...so many people talking about the cost of books being spread out over years vs printing costs every year.

It's almost like y'all haven't been following the budget crises in CA at all...they expect to be a 'penny wise and pound foolish' because they need the pennies now.  All ideas that save money now are viable regardless of whether they will cost more next year.

Also it is expected they will make the major changes to things that have large groups behind them (such as schools.)  That way if something goes wrong, they can be corrected easily.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My goodness...so many people talking about the cost of books being spread out over years vs printing costs every year .
It 's almost like y'all have n't been following the budget crises in CA at all...they expect to be a 'penny wise and pound foolish ' because they need the pennies now .
All ideas that save money now are viable regardless of whether they will cost more next year .
Also it is expected they will make the major changes to things that have large groups behind them ( such as schools .
) That way if something goes wrong , they can be corrected easily .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My goodness...so many people talking about the cost of books being spread out over years vs printing costs every year.
It's almost like y'all haven't been following the budget crises in CA at all...they expect to be a 'penny wise and pound foolish' because they need the pennies now.
All ideas that save money now are viable regardless of whether they will cost more next year.
Also it is expected they will make the major changes to things that have large groups behind them (such as schools.
)  That way if something goes wrong, they can be corrected easily.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265769</id>
	<title>Re:Unfortunately.... hmmm</title>
	<author>webdog314</author>
	<datestamp>1244562840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Interesting.  I wonder why states don't simply print their own textbooks (beyond the screaming of, "unfair competition" from the publishing industry)?  I mean, the states set the curriculum guidelines, why not go a step further and create and print them as well?  Then the state can decide (based on budget, etc.) if the state textbooks need an update, or not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Interesting .
I wonder why states do n't simply print their own textbooks ( beyond the screaming of , " unfair competition " from the publishing industry ) ?
I mean , the states set the curriculum guidelines , why not go a step further and create and print them as well ?
Then the state can decide ( based on budget , etc .
) if the state textbooks need an update , or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interesting.
I wonder why states don't simply print their own textbooks (beyond the screaming of, "unfair competition" from the publishing industry)?
I mean, the states set the curriculum guidelines, why not go a step further and create and print them as well?
Then the state can decide (based on budget, etc.
) if the state textbooks need an update, or not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264583</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266675</id>
	<title>About damn time</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1244566320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And it can be bigger then this:</p><p><a href="http://harns.blogspot.com/2008/07/so-obvious-and-yet-so-not-done.html" title="blogspot.com">http://harns.blogspot.com/2008/07/so-obvious-and-yet-so-not-done.html</a> [blogspot.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And it can be bigger then this : http : //harns.blogspot.com/2008/07/so-obvious-and-yet-so-not-done.html [ blogspot.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And it can be bigger then this:http://harns.blogspot.com/2008/07/so-obvious-and-yet-so-not-done.html [blogspot.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265387</id>
	<title>Textbooks outdated</title>
	<author>arbitrarymodulus</author>
	<datestamp>1244561160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>textbooks in any form are outdated anyway.  any good teacher can come up with his own examples.</htmltext>
<tokenext>textbooks in any form are outdated anyway .
any good teacher can come up with his own examples .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>textbooks in any form are outdated anyway.
any good teacher can come up with his own examples.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264789</id>
	<title>Excellent</title>
	<author>kenp2002</author>
	<datestamp>1244558460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1 laptop capable of reading etext along with basic word processing running on an ARM processor will cost you about $200 bucks.</p><p>The school, per student, will spend about $30 dollars PER BOOK, PER STUDENT.</p><p>The average high school student has 9 book.</p><p>9 x $30 = $270 dollars</p><p>Each student will cost the school, on average, in print outs, copies, and other non-book related costs and addition $50 a year per student</p><p>$270 + $50 = $320 dollars</p><p>Now factor in electricity costs and I am will to say that "Doing this would probably cost the same if not 10\% more then books. Initially."</p><p>That said the quality of material the student has access to is greater along with videos, presentations, and multimedia learning tools that students can watch to assist with their studies.</p><p>If student attendance increases just 5\% that overall this reduces costs as an un-used text book is a waste of money.</p><p>From a licensing standpoint then, a digital publisher, with non-existent manufacturing costs, can license a professionally written textbook at a cost of $5 a student rather then $30. Assuming the laptops are usable for 5 years the cost saving are INSAINE. We are talking slashing at least $200 dollars PER STUDENT PER 5 YEAR PERIOD.</p><p>Pro-rating that is $40 PER student savings per year and can ELMINATE the space and need for a computer lab! Giving the student the opportunity to buy the laptop at the end of the year you could even break even then.</p><p>This has to be one of the smartest ideas I've seen come out of california in 20 years...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 laptop capable of reading etext along with basic word processing running on an ARM processor will cost you about $ 200 bucks.The school , per student , will spend about $ 30 dollars PER BOOK , PER STUDENT.The average high school student has 9 book.9 x $ 30 = $ 270 dollarsEach student will cost the school , on average , in print outs , copies , and other non-book related costs and addition $ 50 a year per student $ 270 + $ 50 = $ 320 dollarsNow factor in electricity costs and I am will to say that " Doing this would probably cost the same if not 10 \ % more then books .
Initially. " That said the quality of material the student has access to is greater along with videos , presentations , and multimedia learning tools that students can watch to assist with their studies.If student attendance increases just 5 \ % that overall this reduces costs as an un-used text book is a waste of money.From a licensing standpoint then , a digital publisher , with non-existent manufacturing costs , can license a professionally written textbook at a cost of $ 5 a student rather then $ 30 .
Assuming the laptops are usable for 5 years the cost saving are INSAINE .
We are talking slashing at least $ 200 dollars PER STUDENT PER 5 YEAR PERIOD.Pro-rating that is $ 40 PER student savings per year and can ELMINATE the space and need for a computer lab !
Giving the student the opportunity to buy the laptop at the end of the year you could even break even then.This has to be one of the smartest ideas I 've seen come out of california in 20 years.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1 laptop capable of reading etext along with basic word processing running on an ARM processor will cost you about $200 bucks.The school, per student, will spend about $30 dollars PER BOOK, PER STUDENT.The average high school student has 9 book.9 x $30 = $270 dollarsEach student will cost the school, on average, in print outs, copies, and other non-book related costs and addition $50 a year per student$270 + $50 = $320 dollarsNow factor in electricity costs and I am will to say that "Doing this would probably cost the same if not 10\% more then books.
Initially."That said the quality of material the student has access to is greater along with videos, presentations, and multimedia learning tools that students can watch to assist with their studies.If student attendance increases just 5\% that overall this reduces costs as an un-used text book is a waste of money.From a licensing standpoint then, a digital publisher, with non-existent manufacturing costs, can license a professionally written textbook at a cost of $5 a student rather then $30.
Assuming the laptops are usable for 5 years the cost saving are INSAINE.
We are talking slashing at least $200 dollars PER STUDENT PER 5 YEAR PERIOD.Pro-rating that is $40 PER student savings per year and can ELMINATE the space and need for a computer lab!
Giving the student the opportunity to buy the laptop at the end of the year you could even break even then.This has to be one of the smartest ideas I've seen come out of california in 20 years...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>uncledrax</author>
	<datestamp>1244556960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeap.. I was just going to post the same thing.. we as<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. users are definitely on the tech side.. but lets remember not everyone has or can afford Internet access and the things to go with it (like a computer).</p><p>So really one must weight the cost of those dead-trees verses limited access mitigation like enhancing computer labs at schools, offering after-hours lab time, or even like you said, buying inexpensive netbooks for school (which you -know- will end up getting lost/damaged often so will need to be replaced.. plus who is gonna run the tech support for them when they get full of virii (or if they are linux, doing something like "rm -rf<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/")).</p><p>I'm very much for progress and technological evolution.... but we just got to realize there are still issues with doing it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeap.. I was just going to post the same thing.. we as / .
users are definitely on the tech side.. but lets remember not everyone has or can afford Internet access and the things to go with it ( like a computer ) .So really one must weight the cost of those dead-trees verses limited access mitigation like enhancing computer labs at schools , offering after-hours lab time , or even like you said , buying inexpensive netbooks for school ( which you -know- will end up getting lost/damaged often so will need to be replaced.. plus who is gon na run the tech support for them when they get full of virii ( or if they are linux , doing something like " rm -rf / " ) ) .I 'm very much for progress and technological evolution.... but we just got to realize there are still issues with doing it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeap.. I was just going to post the same thing.. we as /.
users are definitely on the tech side.. but lets remember not everyone has or can afford Internet access and the things to go with it (like a computer).So really one must weight the cost of those dead-trees verses limited access mitigation like enhancing computer labs at schools, offering after-hours lab time, or even like you said, buying inexpensive netbooks for school (which you -know- will end up getting lost/damaged often so will need to be replaced.. plus who is gonna run the tech support for them when they get full of virii (or if they are linux, doing something like "rm -rf /")).I'm very much for progress and technological evolution.... but we just got to realize there are still issues with doing it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265609</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>Trojan35</author>
	<datestamp>1244562180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hmm... if I recall, a $200 used laptop and a local library card that gives you wifi access is a whole lot cheaper than what I used to pay in text books... text books that would be an "old" revision next year and completely unsellable. And by "old" i mean they changed the order of the questions at the end of the chapter to force everyone to buy the new textbook.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm... if I recall , a $ 200 used laptop and a local library card that gives you wifi access is a whole lot cheaper than what I used to pay in text books... text books that would be an " old " revision next year and completely unsellable .
And by " old " i mean they changed the order of the questions at the end of the chapter to force everyone to buy the new textbook .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm... if I recall, a $200 used laptop and a local library card that gives you wifi access is a whole lot cheaper than what I used to pay in text books... text books that would be an "old" revision next year and completely unsellable.
And by "old" i mean they changed the order of the questions at the end of the chapter to force everyone to buy the new textbook.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28278223</id>
	<title>this is a stupid but necessary text for "subject"</title>
	<author>Kashgarinn</author>
	<datestamp>1244642280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think this is awesome.. people already use netbooks/laptops/e-ink books, they already use computers and internet extensively, so this is just a great extension, and as others have pointed out, in a pinch, you can print out what you need more cheaply.<br>- add into the mix open source educational information, which must be on the horizon soon, and you get the best of everything at a much cheaper price.</p><p>I'm always surprised at how Arnold Schwarzenegger seems to actually be a decent governator who really is trying to do the right thing for as many people as possible.  He's the only republican who I can point to and say "that guy is actually doing the right thing".  Kudos to him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think this is awesome.. people already use netbooks/laptops/e-ink books , they already use computers and internet extensively , so this is just a great extension , and as others have pointed out , in a pinch , you can print out what you need more cheaply.- add into the mix open source educational information , which must be on the horizon soon , and you get the best of everything at a much cheaper price.I 'm always surprised at how Arnold Schwarzenegger seems to actually be a decent governator who really is trying to do the right thing for as many people as possible .
He 's the only republican who I can point to and say " that guy is actually doing the right thing " .
Kudos to him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think this is awesome.. people already use netbooks/laptops/e-ink books, they already use computers and internet extensively, so this is just a great extension, and as others have pointed out, in a pinch, you can print out what you need more cheaply.- add into the mix open source educational information, which must be on the horizon soon, and you get the best of everything at a much cheaper price.I'm always surprised at how Arnold Schwarzenegger seems to actually be a decent governator who really is trying to do the right thing for as many people as possible.
He's the only republican who I can point to and say "that guy is actually doing the right thing".
Kudos to him.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28269333</id>
	<title>Worst idea ever</title>
	<author>junglebeast</author>
	<datestamp>1244575800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sure, I'm a computer geek...I spend countless hours every day reading online resources.  But you can't replace the textbook.  It's much easier to focus on what's on the page without being distracted when it's in book form, it never runs out of batteries, and it's just easier to use.  There is no eReader in existence that comes close to how easy it is to use a book.

Whenever there's a paper that's really important, I still have to print it out...to get a physical copy of it that I can feel and write notes on in the margins.  I just cant focus on it when its on a computer screen and I can't interact with it in that way.  Adobe's markup options are not the same.

I'm not the only one.  I know a lot of people who prefer to print off their PDF's before giving them a thorough read.  Switching over to e-textbooks is a death sentence for learning.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , I 'm a computer geek...I spend countless hours every day reading online resources .
But you ca n't replace the textbook .
It 's much easier to focus on what 's on the page without being distracted when it 's in book form , it never runs out of batteries , and it 's just easier to use .
There is no eReader in existence that comes close to how easy it is to use a book .
Whenever there 's a paper that 's really important , I still have to print it out...to get a physical copy of it that I can feel and write notes on in the margins .
I just cant focus on it when its on a computer screen and I ca n't interact with it in that way .
Adobe 's markup options are not the same .
I 'm not the only one .
I know a lot of people who prefer to print off their PDF 's before giving them a thorough read .
Switching over to e-textbooks is a death sentence for learning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, I'm a computer geek...I spend countless hours every day reading online resources.
But you can't replace the textbook.
It's much easier to focus on what's on the page without being distracted when it's in book form, it never runs out of batteries, and it's just easier to use.
There is no eReader in existence that comes close to how easy it is to use a book.
Whenever there's a paper that's really important, I still have to print it out...to get a physical copy of it that I can feel and write notes on in the margins.
I just cant focus on it when its on a computer screen and I can't interact with it in that way.
Adobe's markup options are not the same.
I'm not the only one.
I know a lot of people who prefer to print off their PDF's before giving them a thorough read.
Switching over to e-textbooks is a death sentence for learning.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266261</id>
	<title>The cost problem of textbooks</title>
	<author>Strained Brain</author>
	<datestamp>1244564700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While they are expensive and get outdated, one of the biggest problems is that people aren't held accountable for the books.  They destroy or lose them and the only thing that happens, in most cases, is that they get another copy.  Schools order way more than they really need, and often times just sit in a closet somewhere, while other schools in the district have to order more new books because nobody knows what is actually already available.

A better solution is to implement a usable tracking system, preferably one that supports both physical and electronic formats.  Implement policies within the districts that hold students/parents accountable for the textbooks.  If you lose/destroy the textbook, you pay for it, after a price adjustment for normal wear and tear.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While they are expensive and get outdated , one of the biggest problems is that people are n't held accountable for the books .
They destroy or lose them and the only thing that happens , in most cases , is that they get another copy .
Schools order way more than they really need , and often times just sit in a closet somewhere , while other schools in the district have to order more new books because nobody knows what is actually already available .
A better solution is to implement a usable tracking system , preferably one that supports both physical and electronic formats .
Implement policies within the districts that hold students/parents accountable for the textbooks .
If you lose/destroy the textbook , you pay for it , after a price adjustment for normal wear and tear .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While they are expensive and get outdated, one of the biggest problems is that people aren't held accountable for the books.
They destroy or lose them and the only thing that happens, in most cases, is that they get another copy.
Schools order way more than they really need, and often times just sit in a closet somewhere, while other schools in the district have to order more new books because nobody knows what is actually already available.
A better solution is to implement a usable tracking system, preferably one that supports both physical and electronic formats.
Implement policies within the districts that hold students/parents accountable for the textbooks.
If you lose/destroy the textbook, you pay for it, after a price adjustment for normal wear and tear.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264697</id>
	<title>Re:No its not...</title>
	<author>speciesonly</author>
	<datestamp>1244558100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Poor underprivileged and poverty stricken students.  No computer, no degree,  no hope.</p><p>I suppose hippie kids fall into the "no computer" category on some counts as well.  But California doesn't have many of those right?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Poor underprivileged and poverty stricken students .
No computer , no degree , no hope.I suppose hippie kids fall into the " no computer " category on some counts as well .
But California does n't have many of those right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Poor underprivileged and poverty stricken students.
No computer, no degree,  no hope.I suppose hippie kids fall into the "no computer" category on some counts as well.
But California doesn't have many of those right?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266229</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>ThinkWeak</author>
	<datestamp>1244564520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What about using something like the Kindle? I haven't heard of any virii making their way onto it and it could be a win-win for Amazon and California.  You just need the scholastic textbooks to be available via Amazon.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What about using something like the Kindle ?
I have n't heard of any virii making their way onto it and it could be a win-win for Amazon and California .
You just need the scholastic textbooks to be available via Amazon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about using something like the Kindle?
I haven't heard of any virii making their way onto it and it could be a win-win for Amazon and California.
You just need the scholastic textbooks to be available via Amazon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267109</id>
	<title>Re:No its not...</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1244567700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Can you people not think at all?<br>Make it a wiki like document. Who cares what system is accessing it? you have a master wiki, accessible by all, and you have it dropped to each schools local system every week.<br>Often enough where there is little change but assurance that if a system is down, there isn't much loss when the next update hits.<br>I could run this system for the whole state with my eye closed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Can you people not think at all ? Make it a wiki like document .
Who cares what system is accessing it ?
you have a master wiki , accessible by all , and you have it dropped to each schools local system every week.Often enough where there is little change but assurance that if a system is down , there is n't much loss when the next update hits.I could run this system for the whole state with my eye closed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can you people not think at all?Make it a wiki like document.
Who cares what system is accessing it?
you have a master wiki, accessible by all, and you have it dropped to each schools local system every week.Often enough where there is little change but assurance that if a system is down, there isn't much loss when the next update hits.I could run this system for the whole state with my eye closed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265041</id>
	<title>Schools don't have reliable Internet's</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244559600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why would anyone put all the weight of teaching materials out on the Internet when he won't pay for a descent level of redundancy to the Internet? California only pays for a primary link between site to site. If schools want a back up path, they have to pay full price for it. And this comes at a time where many are laid-off and budgets are slashed. Schools in California are taking one on the chin right now. This whole cloud computing idea is worthless when the links aren't up to par. Having a book in hand outweighs an Internet that you can't reach.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would anyone put all the weight of teaching materials out on the Internet when he wo n't pay for a descent level of redundancy to the Internet ?
California only pays for a primary link between site to site .
If schools want a back up path , they have to pay full price for it .
And this comes at a time where many are laid-off and budgets are slashed .
Schools in California are taking one on the chin right now .
This whole cloud computing idea is worthless when the links are n't up to par .
Having a book in hand outweighs an Internet that you ca n't reach .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would anyone put all the weight of teaching materials out on the Internet when he won't pay for a descent level of redundancy to the Internet?
California only pays for a primary link between site to site.
If schools want a back up path, they have to pay full price for it.
And this comes at a time where many are laid-off and budgets are slashed.
Schools in California are taking one on the chin right now.
This whole cloud computing idea is worthless when the links aren't up to par.
Having a book in hand outweighs an Internet that you can't reach.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265673</id>
	<title>Just let it all die already</title>
	<author>Quiet\_Desperation</author>
	<datestamp>1244562480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Bankruptcy is the best thing that can happen to this state.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bankruptcy is the best thing that can happen to this state .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bankruptcy is the best thing that can happen to this state.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264989</id>
	<title>Re:Buy once - use many.</title>
	<author>jgtg32a</author>
	<datestamp>1244559360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually in College the Stats class I took used a text book that was printed in the late '80s, the prof didn't see the reason to move to a new textbook.  Well that's not true I was the last class that was going to use those books because it was getting difficult to find them</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually in College the Stats class I took used a text book that was printed in the late '80s , the prof did n't see the reason to move to a new textbook .
Well that 's not true I was the last class that was going to use those books because it was getting difficult to find them</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually in College the Stats class I took used a text book that was printed in the late '80s, the prof didn't see the reason to move to a new textbook.
Well that's not true I was the last class that was going to use those books because it was getting difficult to find them</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266455</id>
	<title>Professor's Double Jeopardy</title>
	<author>Gruff1002</author>
	<datestamp>1244565660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A professor at a college will write a book then require his and future classes he/she teaches to purchase the book. There is something fundamentally wrong with this.<br>If I write a book, require my students to buy and read it then "teach" from it, isn't this restricting free thinking?<br>Furthermore a professor gets a base pay and also publishing rights and a paid for audience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A professor at a college will write a book then require his and future classes he/she teaches to purchase the book .
There is something fundamentally wrong with this.If I write a book , require my students to buy and read it then " teach " from it , is n't this restricting free thinking ? Furthermore a professor gets a base pay and also publishing rights and a paid for audience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A professor at a college will write a book then require his and future classes he/she teaches to purchase the book.
There is something fundamentally wrong with this.If I write a book, require my students to buy and read it then "teach" from it, isn't this restricting free thinking?Furthermore a professor gets a base pay and also publishing rights and a paid for audience.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265051</id>
	<title>Can't they simply lend the books?</title>
	<author>master\_p</author>
	<datestamp>1244559660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And when the school year is over, the books are passed to the younger students. Only when the material is updated, students will get new books.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And when the school year is over , the books are passed to the younger students .
Only when the material is updated , students will get new books .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And when the school year is over, the books are passed to the younger students.
Only when the material is updated, students will get new books.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265019</id>
	<title>Re:OLPC?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244559540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Schools have computers, and for the freaks who want to study in their spare time, libraries have computers to. The "Not everybody has access to the internet" argument works in 3'rd world contries, but not in the USA, Everybody DOES have access to the internet, even those who don't have access to a fancy laptop.<br>Crying out for laptops is like crying out for hardbound books, the papereditions will do quite fine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Schools have computers , and for the freaks who want to study in their spare time , libraries have computers to .
The " Not everybody has access to the internet " argument works in 3'rd world contries , but not in the USA , Everybody DOES have access to the internet , even those who do n't have access to a fancy laptop.Crying out for laptops is like crying out for hardbound books , the papereditions will do quite fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Schools have computers, and for the freaks who want to study in their spare time, libraries have computers to.
The "Not everybody has access to the internet" argument works in 3'rd world contries, but not in the USA, Everybody DOES have access to the internet, even those who don't have access to a fancy laptop.Crying out for laptops is like crying out for hardbound books, the papereditions will do quite fine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265411</id>
	<title>Textbooks in Communist Romania</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244561220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was a schoolboy in Communist Romania, textbooks were usually hardcovers, and were passed from a generation to the next for, I'd say, 5 years each. This is because children are not very good at caring for books, and especially textbooks. Many parents prefered buying new copies (I still have mine, and plan on using them with my boy, given that the quality of education lowers). As I think of it now, the approach seems quite OK.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was a schoolboy in Communist Romania , textbooks were usually hardcovers , and were passed from a generation to the next for , I 'd say , 5 years each .
This is because children are not very good at caring for books , and especially textbooks .
Many parents prefered buying new copies ( I still have mine , and plan on using them with my boy , given that the quality of education lowers ) .
As I think of it now , the approach seems quite OK .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was a schoolboy in Communist Romania, textbooks were usually hardcovers, and were passed from a generation to the next for, I'd say, 5 years each.
This is because children are not very good at caring for books, and especially textbooks.
Many parents prefered buying new copies (I still have mine, and plan on using them with my boy, given that the quality of education lowers).
As I think of it now, the approach seems quite OK.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28269145</id>
	<title>Re:No its not...</title>
	<author>bcrowell</author>
	<datestamp>1244575200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Then what happens if for some reason these textbooks are not cross platform? What if they restrict access to only Windows machines, or Windows and Mac? [...] What happens if their computer is too old to properly render the site?</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
I'm participating in this initiative as an author, and the paperwork they made me fill out made it very clear that they'd thought about issues like these. I had to check a box on a form to say that the Adobe Reader plugin would be needed. I also had to fill in blanks saying what versions of IE and Firefox would work. As far as restricting access, you seem to be envisioning the kind of proprietary cruft that a traditional publisher would impose. This initiative is only dealing with <i>free</i> textbooks, which guarantees zero participation from traditional publishers.
</p><blockquote><div><p>online textbooks if they don't come with a hard-bound textbook are a bad idea.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
The initiative is only dealing with free textbooks. Therefore (a) the books are not going to come with a physical object that would cost money to produce, but (b) there's nothing stopping anyone from just going ahead and printing copies. The Schwarzenegger opinion piece says, "Even if teachers have to print out some of the material, it will be far cheaper than regularly buying updated textbooks," so I think they're anticipating that. Self-service laser printing usually comes out to about 5 cents a page, which is quite a bit cheaper than the typical cost of a textbook (say $150 for 500 pages, which comes out to 30 cents a page). The real issue is durability. Print-on-demand houses will print and bind books for more like 3-5 cents a page, and that really works out to be a winning solution, because that type of bound book is durable enough to last for a while, but still an order of magnitude cheaper than traditional textbooks.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Then what happens if for some reason these textbooks are not cross platform ?
What if they restrict access to only Windows machines , or Windows and Mac ?
[ ... ] What happens if their computer is too old to properly render the site ?
I 'm participating in this initiative as an author , and the paperwork they made me fill out made it very clear that they 'd thought about issues like these .
I had to check a box on a form to say that the Adobe Reader plugin would be needed .
I also had to fill in blanks saying what versions of IE and Firefox would work .
As far as restricting access , you seem to be envisioning the kind of proprietary cruft that a traditional publisher would impose .
This initiative is only dealing with free textbooks , which guarantees zero participation from traditional publishers .
online textbooks if they do n't come with a hard-bound textbook are a bad idea .
The initiative is only dealing with free textbooks .
Therefore ( a ) the books are not going to come with a physical object that would cost money to produce , but ( b ) there 's nothing stopping anyone from just going ahead and printing copies .
The Schwarzenegger opinion piece says , " Even if teachers have to print out some of the material , it will be far cheaper than regularly buying updated textbooks , " so I think they 're anticipating that .
Self-service laser printing usually comes out to about 5 cents a page , which is quite a bit cheaper than the typical cost of a textbook ( say $ 150 for 500 pages , which comes out to 30 cents a page ) .
The real issue is durability .
Print-on-demand houses will print and bind books for more like 3-5 cents a page , and that really works out to be a winning solution , because that type of bound book is durable enough to last for a while , but still an order of magnitude cheaper than traditional textbooks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then what happens if for some reason these textbooks are not cross platform?
What if they restrict access to only Windows machines, or Windows and Mac?
[...] What happens if their computer is too old to properly render the site?
I'm participating in this initiative as an author, and the paperwork they made me fill out made it very clear that they'd thought about issues like these.
I had to check a box on a form to say that the Adobe Reader plugin would be needed.
I also had to fill in blanks saying what versions of IE and Firefox would work.
As far as restricting access, you seem to be envisioning the kind of proprietary cruft that a traditional publisher would impose.
This initiative is only dealing with free textbooks, which guarantees zero participation from traditional publishers.
online textbooks if they don't come with a hard-bound textbook are a bad idea.
The initiative is only dealing with free textbooks.
Therefore (a) the books are not going to come with a physical object that would cost money to produce, but (b) there's nothing stopping anyone from just going ahead and printing copies.
The Schwarzenegger opinion piece says, "Even if teachers have to print out some of the material, it will be far cheaper than regularly buying updated textbooks," so I think they're anticipating that.
Self-service laser printing usually comes out to about 5 cents a page, which is quite a bit cheaper than the typical cost of a textbook (say $150 for 500 pages, which comes out to 30 cents a page).
The real issue is durability.
Print-on-demand houses will print and bind books for more like 3-5 cents a page, and that really works out to be a winning solution, because that type of bound book is durable enough to last for a while, but still an order of magnitude cheaper than traditional textbooks.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_43</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265283
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28276135
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264427
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264549
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28270819
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264597
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28274771
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267109
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264519
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265273
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_52</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265377
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28269859
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28275241
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265191
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_49</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266247
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28303375
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_42</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265325
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268491
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264941
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265779
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265609
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264519
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265013
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264633
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264989
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_48</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266107
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_50</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266793
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265077
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266401
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266277
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_47</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264697
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_38</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265077
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266453
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267835
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_53</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267031
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_39</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264553
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265745
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_46</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264419
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265019
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265693
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_40</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265775
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265461
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264583
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265769
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264681
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_41</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264941
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266911
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28269145
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264519
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265495
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28270959
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264437
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266235
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264437
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265671
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267375
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264789
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267103
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_51</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267025
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264941
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265297
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265155
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264427
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264549
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266369
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264551
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264771
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266229
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_45</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266543
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265377
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266425
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265561
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28274841
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265031
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_37</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264789
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265349
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264941
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265575
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_44</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265077
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266135
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264437
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264883
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_1243211_20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266977
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267825
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264557
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264519
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265013
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265273
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265495
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264427
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264549
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28270819
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266369
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264583
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265769
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264941
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266911
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265779
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265297
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265575
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265279
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266261
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265017
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264503
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265461
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266107
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264989
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265155
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264681
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265077
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266135
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266453
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266401
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264437
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264883
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266235
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265671
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264551
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264771
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265325
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28268491
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264439
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28269145
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266543
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265031
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267835
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28275241
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264697
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267031
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267109
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264553
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264633
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28270959
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264615
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265041
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264927
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266241
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265323
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266247
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28303375
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264789
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265349
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267103
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265561
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28274841
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264363
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264419
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264443
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265019
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265693
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265745
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265609
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266277
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265283
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28276135
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265191
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267025
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266229
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267375
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265775
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28265377
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266425
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28269859
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266793
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264533
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28266977
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28267825
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_1243211.23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28264597
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1243211.28274771
</commentlist>
</conversation>
