<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_06_1749232</id>
	<title>Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1244313180000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="mailto:damnmylife@tempemail.com" rel="nofollow">DAMN MY LIFE</a> writes <i>"I'm going to Central Michigan University in the fall. Upon examination of their poorly organized <a href="https://cm1rr.cmich.edu/registration/acceptableuse.htm">network</a> <a href="http://www.it.cmich.edu/it/policies\_computing.asp">usage</a> <a href="http://oit.cmich.edu/it/policies\_home.asp">policies</a>, I'm worried that using their internet service will expose my web browsing habits, emails, and most importantly, passwords. Another concern I have is the '<a href="https://cm1rr.cmich.edu/remediation/CSAstart.html">Client Security Agent</a>' that students are required to install and leave on their systems to use the network. Through this application, the IT department scans everyone's computer for what they claim are network security purposes. Of course, scanning a person's hard drive can turn up all kinds of things that are personal. Do all colleges have such extreme measures in place? Is there any way that I can avoid this? There are no wireless broadband providers available in the area, I already checked."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>DAMN MY LIFE writes " I 'm going to Central Michigan University in the fall .
Upon examination of their poorly organized network usage policies , I 'm worried that using their internet service will expose my web browsing habits , emails , and most importantly , passwords .
Another concern I have is the 'Client Security Agent ' that students are required to install and leave on their systems to use the network .
Through this application , the IT department scans everyone 's computer for what they claim are network security purposes .
Of course , scanning a person 's hard drive can turn up all kinds of things that are personal .
Do all colleges have such extreme measures in place ?
Is there any way that I can avoid this ?
There are no wireless broadband providers available in the area , I already checked .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DAMN MY LIFE writes "I'm going to Central Michigan University in the fall.
Upon examination of their poorly organized network usage policies, I'm worried that using their internet service will expose my web browsing habits, emails, and most importantly, passwords.
Another concern I have is the 'Client Security Agent' that students are required to install and leave on their systems to use the network.
Through this application, the IT department scans everyone's computer for what they claim are network security purposes.
Of course, scanning a person's hard drive can turn up all kinds of things that are personal.
Do all colleges have such extreme measures in place?
Is there any way that I can avoid this?
There are no wireless broadband providers available in the area, I already checked.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236187</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244281020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is shitty advice and you know it. The asker is already enrolled. At least you could have given advice that was untenable AND pithy, but it appears that your sense of vanity has mislead you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is shitty advice and you know it .
The asker is already enrolled .
At least you could have given advice that was untenable AND pithy , but it appears that your sense of vanity has mislead you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is shitty advice and you know it.
The asker is already enrolled.
At least you could have given advice that was untenable AND pithy, but it appears that your sense of vanity has mislead you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235349</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244319300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Set up a VPN server using OpenVPN on a remote site and then run the OpenVPN client on your PC. All traffic will then be encrypted on the college network.</p><p>Using a virtual machine and TrueCrypt can also save you from additional headaches.</p><p>This assumes that you at least have sufficient rights on the client PC.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Set up a VPN server using OpenVPN on a remote site and then run the OpenVPN client on your PC .
All traffic will then be encrypted on the college network.Using a virtual machine and TrueCrypt can also save you from additional headaches.This assumes that you at least have sufficient rights on the client PC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Set up a VPN server using OpenVPN on a remote site and then run the OpenVPN client on your PC.
All traffic will then be encrypted on the college network.Using a virtual machine and TrueCrypt can also save you from additional headaches.This assumes that you at least have sufficient rights on the client PC.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235717</id>
	<title>Re:It's no worse than being at work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nice bunch of Republican "free market" inspired BS you have going on here.  Everyone knows the drill--expect nothing except rules, obey always, never challenge, and consider every unreasonable idiot you run into from employers to service providers is teaching you some sort of "life lesson".  I feel truly sorry for people who learn "life lessons" like this.</p><p>Here's a notion for all our free market friends.  The Internet isn't private property.  ISPs certainly HAVE private property, networks, etc., but even there, except (curiously) for dial-up where the ISP is not the phone company, every method of obtaining Internet access relies in some way or form on a full or partial government (read: "society") sanctioned monopoly or partial monopoly.  I can't go start my own cable company and run wires everywhere if one or two already exist.  I need (lots of) permission to launch a satellite.  I can't put a cell tower up anywhere I please.</p><p>The Internet exists because of both private and public investment, and the private investment is profitable because the "public" side allows it to be.  Therefore, Mr. Life Lesson, it is entirely appropriate for society to tell ISPs and entities that act like them how to behave, within reason.  It is also appropriate for network providers to have rules, WITHIN REASON.  Private property freaks lose the "within reason" part rather easily when they're making up the rules, of course.  You love the notion that an employer gets to tell you, appropriately, what you can and can't do with their computers.  Somehow you miss the point when it comes to MY computer, or someone else's computer, just connected to what is in essence a public utility.  That's especially relevant here, where I'll bet that Internet access is funded by a line item on a tuition bill every semester.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nice bunch of Republican " free market " inspired BS you have going on here .
Everyone knows the drill--expect nothing except rules , obey always , never challenge , and consider every unreasonable idiot you run into from employers to service providers is teaching you some sort of " life lesson " .
I feel truly sorry for people who learn " life lessons " like this.Here 's a notion for all our free market friends .
The Internet is n't private property .
ISPs certainly HAVE private property , networks , etc. , but even there , except ( curiously ) for dial-up where the ISP is not the phone company , every method of obtaining Internet access relies in some way or form on a full or partial government ( read : " society " ) sanctioned monopoly or partial monopoly .
I ca n't go start my own cable company and run wires everywhere if one or two already exist .
I need ( lots of ) permission to launch a satellite .
I ca n't put a cell tower up anywhere I please.The Internet exists because of both private and public investment , and the private investment is profitable because the " public " side allows it to be .
Therefore , Mr. Life Lesson , it is entirely appropriate for society to tell ISPs and entities that act like them how to behave , within reason .
It is also appropriate for network providers to have rules , WITHIN REASON .
Private property freaks lose the " within reason " part rather easily when they 're making up the rules , of course .
You love the notion that an employer gets to tell you , appropriately , what you can and ca n't do with their computers .
Somehow you miss the point when it comes to MY computer , or someone else 's computer , just connected to what is in essence a public utility .
That 's especially relevant here , where I 'll bet that Internet access is funded by a line item on a tuition bill every semester .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nice bunch of Republican "free market" inspired BS you have going on here.
Everyone knows the drill--expect nothing except rules, obey always, never challenge, and consider every unreasonable idiot you run into from employers to service providers is teaching you some sort of "life lesson".
I feel truly sorry for people who learn "life lessons" like this.Here's a notion for all our free market friends.
The Internet isn't private property.
ISPs certainly HAVE private property, networks, etc., but even there, except (curiously) for dial-up where the ISP is not the phone company, every method of obtaining Internet access relies in some way or form on a full or partial government (read: "society") sanctioned monopoly or partial monopoly.
I can't go start my own cable company and run wires everywhere if one or two already exist.
I need (lots of) permission to launch a satellite.
I can't put a cell tower up anywhere I please.The Internet exists because of both private and public investment, and the private investment is profitable because the "public" side allows it to be.
Therefore, Mr. Life Lesson, it is entirely appropriate for society to tell ISPs and entities that act like them how to behave, within reason.
It is also appropriate for network providers to have rules, WITHIN REASON.
Private property freaks lose the "within reason" part rather easily when they're making up the rules, of course.
You love the notion that an employer gets to tell you, appropriately, what you can and can't do with their computers.
Somehow you miss the point when it comes to MY computer, or someone else's computer, just connected to what is in essence a public utility.
That's especially relevant here, where I'll bet that Internet access is funded by a line item on a tuition bill every semester.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237053</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>warpuck</author>
	<datestamp>1244288220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most Universities are thought regurgitation factories. This is just one of the tools used to bend your thoughts conform to policy. Buffett, Gates, Jobs and Wozniak would not have succeeded had they followed the conformed thinking required to graduate. Remember they kicked the top 1\% of the grads recruited by IBM, HP, DEC, Burroughs, Xerox...off the top of the heap.
 Remember a good Civil Serpent Does not think outside the box and WMU is a Michigan public institution. Resistance is futile.

Use a yard sale XP computer for their network and WMU stuff only. Use a separate Verizon or Sprint wireless computer for everthing else. If that requires travel off campus, do it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most Universities are thought regurgitation factories .
This is just one of the tools used to bend your thoughts conform to policy .
Buffett , Gates , Jobs and Wozniak would not have succeeded had they followed the conformed thinking required to graduate .
Remember they kicked the top 1 \ % of the grads recruited by IBM , HP , DEC , Burroughs , Xerox...off the top of the heap .
Remember a good Civil Serpent Does not think outside the box and WMU is a Michigan public institution .
Resistance is futile .
Use a yard sale XP computer for their network and WMU stuff only .
Use a separate Verizon or Sprint wireless computer for everthing else .
If that requires travel off campus , do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most Universities are thought regurgitation factories.
This is just one of the tools used to bend your thoughts conform to policy.
Buffett, Gates, Jobs and Wozniak would not have succeeded had they followed the conformed thinking required to graduate.
Remember they kicked the top 1\% of the grads recruited by IBM, HP, DEC, Burroughs, Xerox...off the top of the heap.
Remember a good Civil Serpent Does not think outside the box and WMU is a Michigan public institution.
Resistance is futile.
Use a yard sale XP computer for their network and WMU stuff only.
Use a separate Verizon or Sprint wireless computer for everthing else.
If that requires travel off campus, do it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240623</id>
	<title>My scenario</title>
	<author>strawberryutopia</author>
	<datestamp>1244380800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're going some place weird, my friend. The limit of my Uni's Acceptable Use Policy is that your computer have anti-virus software installed. They don't come round checking though. The only other limitations they have are "no peer-to-peer file sharing", legal or illegal, and no connecting more than one device to a network port because most people can't set that up properly and it annoys them.<br>I of course regularly wirelessly share my wired internet connection, but it's set up properly. They may be able to detect that I'm doing it, but to be honest, IT Services use the "secret" DC++ file sharing we have going on campus as much as anyone else, so they're not going to care about a little secured ad-hoc wireless network.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're going some place weird , my friend .
The limit of my Uni 's Acceptable Use Policy is that your computer have anti-virus software installed .
They do n't come round checking though .
The only other limitations they have are " no peer-to-peer file sharing " , legal or illegal , and no connecting more than one device to a network port because most people ca n't set that up properly and it annoys them.I of course regularly wirelessly share my wired internet connection , but it 's set up properly .
They may be able to detect that I 'm doing it , but to be honest , IT Services use the " secret " DC + + file sharing we have going on campus as much as anyone else , so they 're not going to care about a little secured ad-hoc wireless network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're going some place weird, my friend.
The limit of my Uni's Acceptable Use Policy is that your computer have anti-virus software installed.
They don't come round checking though.
The only other limitations they have are "no peer-to-peer file sharing", legal or illegal, and no connecting more than one device to a network port because most people can't set that up properly and it annoys them.I of course regularly wirelessly share my wired internet connection, but it's set up properly.
They may be able to detect that I'm doing it, but to be honest, IT Services use the "secret" DC++ file sharing we have going on campus as much as anyone else, so they're not going to care about a little secured ad-hoc wireless network.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235463</id>
	<title>Re:Whoa what?</title>
	<author>Tacvek</author>
	<datestamp>1244319840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities" == "all the network disk-space we provide". So just don't use the network disk space. Use thumb drives instead.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities " = = " all the network disk-space we provide " .
So just do n't use the network disk space .
Use thumb drives instead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities" == "all the network disk-space we provide".
So just don't use the network disk space.
Use thumb drives instead.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235005</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238163</id>
	<title>Re:Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244298540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If he gets denied access just because he's running Linux, then he seriously needs to think about going to a better, less backwards college.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If he gets denied access just because he 's running Linux , then he seriously needs to think about going to a better , less backwards college .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If he gets denied access just because he's running Linux, then he seriously needs to think about going to a better, less backwards college.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235019</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239319</id>
	<title>From</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244313300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being the manager of the systems and network for a reasonably sized private University I had to implement a system such as the one described. A couple notations:<br>In a private university (not saying the ones you are talking about are private) the assets including the network and the property owned by the entity are not subject to "freedom of speech". As the owner (the University) of the network I can squash whatever communications I so desire. Of course as far as personal speech (ie. gatherings, meetings etc) the University embraced the student body however for electronic communications, the outter limits such as sending spam, bigotry, hate and other thing not in line with the conduct required of the students, were banned.</p><p>Many Universities use McAfee because the school must/should provided required software and it must be paid for. McAfee sells it for less than $1 per FTE and then gives breaks on the University owned computers. This software is easy to manage. There are competitors but in many cases McAfee outbid, outsold, or was first to the door in 2003 when isht hit the fan.<br>My particular (and unnamed) University wants these things: you to not infect or attempt to break into other computers and you not to be infected. The best way to do this (based on many factors including not increasing tuition to hire more IT) is to require (for windows) updates turned on (to download and install), firewall turned on (and allow the student to make exceptions), and to have AV (of our choice) installed and configured (updates, certain settings). To do this and guarantee things are not opened up is to use this type of agent software.</p><p>We do not care what you have on your computer (porn, illegal software, etc). However we do use multiple layers of packet shaping software (block most forms of illegal file sharing).</p><p>We do allow exceptions of course for gaming consoles and if you want, you can use your own harware firewall (with signed agreement stating that you acknowledge you have read and understand the University computing policy and you wave your right to a warning/network reinstatement if you are found to be violating any policy including spreading a virus. You cannot have wireless enabled.</p><p>We have many Mac and Linux users and we do of course allow them. We find most Linux users to know right from wrong and how to be somewhat secure in their computing habits.</p><p>The primary issue is the brand new student with a hand-me-down laptop that he/she has been using over the summer and his/her friends have shown them how to download "free" music and software but not how to keep their machines safe. I litterally removed over 14,000 infected files from 7 different viruses on a laptop where the student said there was no way she could have a virus and she didn't understand why we were being mean to her because we made her install this sofware which required her to follow 8 sentences of instructions. That one person is how University networks get bogged down and viruses spread.</p><p>The new stuff checks Mac and Linux but again, all we care about is viruses and getting DMCA's (but we don't check your machines) we check the wire to the Internet. If you want to share things on the Internet (of course I mean legally), encrypt it, use private communities, and don't use a lot of bandwidth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being the manager of the systems and network for a reasonably sized private University I had to implement a system such as the one described .
A couple notations : In a private university ( not saying the ones you are talking about are private ) the assets including the network and the property owned by the entity are not subject to " freedom of speech " .
As the owner ( the University ) of the network I can squash whatever communications I so desire .
Of course as far as personal speech ( ie .
gatherings , meetings etc ) the University embraced the student body however for electronic communications , the outter limits such as sending spam , bigotry , hate and other thing not in line with the conduct required of the students , were banned.Many Universities use McAfee because the school must/should provided required software and it must be paid for .
McAfee sells it for less than $ 1 per FTE and then gives breaks on the University owned computers .
This software is easy to manage .
There are competitors but in many cases McAfee outbid , outsold , or was first to the door in 2003 when isht hit the fan.My particular ( and unnamed ) University wants these things : you to not infect or attempt to break into other computers and you not to be infected .
The best way to do this ( based on many factors including not increasing tuition to hire more IT ) is to require ( for windows ) updates turned on ( to download and install ) , firewall turned on ( and allow the student to make exceptions ) , and to have AV ( of our choice ) installed and configured ( updates , certain settings ) .
To do this and guarantee things are not opened up is to use this type of agent software.We do not care what you have on your computer ( porn , illegal software , etc ) .
However we do use multiple layers of packet shaping software ( block most forms of illegal file sharing ) .We do allow exceptions of course for gaming consoles and if you want , you can use your own harware firewall ( with signed agreement stating that you acknowledge you have read and understand the University computing policy and you wave your right to a warning/network reinstatement if you are found to be violating any policy including spreading a virus .
You can not have wireless enabled.We have many Mac and Linux users and we do of course allow them .
We find most Linux users to know right from wrong and how to be somewhat secure in their computing habits.The primary issue is the brand new student with a hand-me-down laptop that he/she has been using over the summer and his/her friends have shown them how to download " free " music and software but not how to keep their machines safe .
I litterally removed over 14,000 infected files from 7 different viruses on a laptop where the student said there was no way she could have a virus and she did n't understand why we were being mean to her because we made her install this sofware which required her to follow 8 sentences of instructions .
That one person is how University networks get bogged down and viruses spread.The new stuff checks Mac and Linux but again , all we care about is viruses and getting DMCA 's ( but we do n't check your machines ) we check the wire to the Internet .
If you want to share things on the Internet ( of course I mean legally ) , encrypt it , use private communities , and do n't use a lot of bandwidth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being the manager of the systems and network for a reasonably sized private University I had to implement a system such as the one described.
A couple notations:In a private university (not saying the ones you are talking about are private) the assets including the network and the property owned by the entity are not subject to "freedom of speech".
As the owner (the University) of the network I can squash whatever communications I so desire.
Of course as far as personal speech (ie.
gatherings, meetings etc) the University embraced the student body however for electronic communications, the outter limits such as sending spam, bigotry, hate and other thing not in line with the conduct required of the students, were banned.Many Universities use McAfee because the school must/should provided required software and it must be paid for.
McAfee sells it for less than $1 per FTE and then gives breaks on the University owned computers.
This software is easy to manage.
There are competitors but in many cases McAfee outbid, outsold, or was first to the door in 2003 when isht hit the fan.My particular (and unnamed) University wants these things: you to not infect or attempt to break into other computers and you not to be infected.
The best way to do this (based on many factors including not increasing tuition to hire more IT) is to require (for windows) updates turned on (to download and install), firewall turned on (and allow the student to make exceptions), and to have AV (of our choice) installed and configured (updates, certain settings).
To do this and guarantee things are not opened up is to use this type of agent software.We do not care what you have on your computer (porn, illegal software, etc).
However we do use multiple layers of packet shaping software (block most forms of illegal file sharing).We do allow exceptions of course for gaming consoles and if you want, you can use your own harware firewall (with signed agreement stating that you acknowledge you have read and understand the University computing policy and you wave your right to a warning/network reinstatement if you are found to be violating any policy including spreading a virus.
You cannot have wireless enabled.We have many Mac and Linux users and we do of course allow them.
We find most Linux users to know right from wrong and how to be somewhat secure in their computing habits.The primary issue is the brand new student with a hand-me-down laptop that he/she has been using over the summer and his/her friends have shown them how to download "free" music and software but not how to keep their machines safe.
I litterally removed over 14,000 infected files from 7 different viruses on a laptop where the student said there was no way she could have a virus and she didn't understand why we were being mean to her because we made her install this sofware which required her to follow 8 sentences of instructions.
That one person is how University networks get bogged down and viruses spread.The new stuff checks Mac and Linux but again, all we care about is viruses and getting DMCA's (but we don't check your machines) we check the wire to the Internet.
If you want to share things on the Internet (of course I mean legally), encrypt it, use private communities, and don't use a lot of bandwidth.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235951</id>
	<title>what if you don't install it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244279580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just download it so they think you have it, but don't install it. Then check if you can connect to network without it. If you can, just ignore they new policy, they almost certainly won't notice. In no case install this software on a pc with important data on it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just download it so they think you have it , but do n't install it .
Then check if you can connect to network without it .
If you can , just ignore they new policy , they almost certainly wo n't notice .
In no case install this software on a pc with important data on it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just download it so they think you have it, but don't install it.
Then check if you can connect to network without it.
If you can, just ignore they new policy, they almost certainly won't notice.
In no case install this software on a pc with important data on it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235821</id>
	<title>Actually the policy makes a lot of sense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anybody using Windows has forfeited any right s/he had on privacy, data ownership or anything else on his or her PC anyway.</p><p>He has also signed to make sure that the machine is virus prone.</p><p>Moreover by his/her choice s/he has stated loud and clear that "convenience" trump "human rights"..<br>And that they have no technical competencies...</p><p>So it makes sence that CMU adds it's own virus to make sure that the machine stays clean, and keeps the network safe.</p><p>If you do care about your private data you do not use Windows...<br>Now if they would put non GPL code and closed source "spys" in the Andrew Linux, that would be a scandal (BTW they give you the option to use another Linux, Andrew Linux is for non technically oriented people (apparently)).</p><p>Using Windows and complaining about privacy is akin to insist on using a Hummer and complain  about polution...</p><p>So IMHO the only issue is that they didn't provide a policy forcing windows users to wear the cilice (hairshirt), this would certainly improve network stability<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anybody using Windows has forfeited any right s/he had on privacy , data ownership or anything else on his or her PC anyway.He has also signed to make sure that the machine is virus prone.Moreover by his/her choice s/he has stated loud and clear that " convenience " trump " human rights " ..And that they have no technical competencies...So it makes sence that CMU adds it 's own virus to make sure that the machine stays clean , and keeps the network safe.If you do care about your private data you do not use Windows...Now if they would put non GPL code and closed source " spys " in the Andrew Linux , that would be a scandal ( BTW they give you the option to use another Linux , Andrew Linux is for non technically oriented people ( apparently ) ) .Using Windows and complaining about privacy is akin to insist on using a Hummer and complain about polution...So IMHO the only issue is that they did n't provide a policy forcing windows users to wear the cilice ( hairshirt ) , this would certainly improve network stability : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anybody using Windows has forfeited any right s/he had on privacy, data ownership or anything else on his or her PC anyway.He has also signed to make sure that the machine is virus prone.Moreover by his/her choice s/he has stated loud and clear that "convenience" trump "human rights"..And that they have no technical competencies...So it makes sence that CMU adds it's own virus to make sure that the machine stays clean, and keeps the network safe.If you do care about your private data you do not use Windows...Now if they would put non GPL code and closed source "spys" in the Andrew Linux, that would be a scandal (BTW they give you the option to use another Linux, Andrew Linux is for non technically oriented people (apparently)).Using Windows and complaining about privacy is akin to insist on using a Hummer and complain  about polution...So IMHO the only issue is that they didn't provide a policy forcing windows users to wear the cilice (hairshirt), this would certainly improve network stability :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235449</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244319720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yep. Just because you personally don't care what he has on his computer, he shouldn't worry that there might be a bad egg in the IT department who will drain his bank accounts and post child pornography on his facebook page.</p><p>Yes sir mister IT guy, we'll let you have all of our data and trust you not to do anything bad with it, whatever you say.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep .
Just because you personally do n't care what he has on his computer , he should n't worry that there might be a bad egg in the IT department who will drain his bank accounts and post child pornography on his facebook page.Yes sir mister IT guy , we 'll let you have all of our data and trust you not to do anything bad with it , whatever you say .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.
Just because you personally don't care what he has on his computer, he shouldn't worry that there might be a bad egg in the IT department who will drain his bank accounts and post child pornography on his facebook page.Yes sir mister IT guy, we'll let you have all of our data and trust you not to do anything bad with it, whatever you say.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239003</id>
	<title>Use a second computer</title>
	<author>fadethepolice</author>
	<datestamp>1244308380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Would it be possible to get a second network card (usb for laptop) share the internet connection and then use openvpn on the computer you are sharing the connection with to encrypt all data coming to and from that computer?  Is there a way to hide the shared connection?  T</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would it be possible to get a second network card ( usb for laptop ) share the internet connection and then use openvpn on the computer you are sharing the connection with to encrypt all data coming to and from that computer ?
Is there a way to hide the shared connection ?
T</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would it be possible to get a second network card (usb for laptop) share the internet connection and then use openvpn on the computer you are sharing the connection with to encrypt all data coming to and from that computer?
Is there a way to hide the shared connection?
T</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236149</id>
	<title>Re:It's no worse than being at work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244280840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.</p></div><p>He is paying for it. It's called tuition.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the real world , if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.He is paying for it .
It 's called tuition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.He is paying for it.
It's called tuition.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235365</id>
	<title>OSfuscate yourself into a Dreamcast</title>
	<author>Suertreus</author>
	<datestamp>1244319360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Software like this invariably uses a technique called TCP stack fingerprinting to determine whether your device is of the sort that requires the software installed.  Basically, invalid or strange TCP packets are sent to you upon first appearance (or at DHCP time or something), and the response to each helps the security system to decide whether you're a Windows box, a Linux box, a handheld something, or a game console, because the stack on each of these systems responds a little differently to out-of-RFC TCP junk.</p><p>There are several pieces of software out there, most notably OSfuscate (http://www.irongeek.com/i.php?page=security/osfuscate-change-your-windows-os-tcp-ip-fingerprint-to-confuse-p0f-networkminer-ettercap-nmap-and-other-os-detection-tools) and sec\_cloak (http://www.hacker-soft.net/Soft/Soft\_2304.htm, but the link is quite broken), that reconfigure your Windows TCP stack via the registry to appear to these tools like something entirely different.  After doing that, just tell your IT department that you need to get your other device on their network and most places will whitelist you.  The most popular choice for what to emulate is a Sega Dreamcast; why that is the case is left as an excercise to the reader...</p><p>At most places, looking like something that can't run their spyware gets you online, but some places want to see the hardware (especially for game consoles), so if you're concerned, say the machine runs Linux sometimes and show it to them running Linux (off a LiveCD if you must) if they ask.  Then use software to make your Windows look like Linux too, and the exception they'll have put in for "a Linux box with MAC xx:xx:xx:xx:xx" will cover both systems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Software like this invariably uses a technique called TCP stack fingerprinting to determine whether your device is of the sort that requires the software installed .
Basically , invalid or strange TCP packets are sent to you upon first appearance ( or at DHCP time or something ) , and the response to each helps the security system to decide whether you 're a Windows box , a Linux box , a handheld something , or a game console , because the stack on each of these systems responds a little differently to out-of-RFC TCP junk.There are several pieces of software out there , most notably OSfuscate ( http : //www.irongeek.com/i.php ? page = security/osfuscate-change-your-windows-os-tcp-ip-fingerprint-to-confuse-p0f-networkminer-ettercap-nmap-and-other-os-detection-tools ) and sec \ _cloak ( http : //www.hacker-soft.net/Soft/Soft \ _2304.htm , but the link is quite broken ) , that reconfigure your Windows TCP stack via the registry to appear to these tools like something entirely different .
After doing that , just tell your IT department that you need to get your other device on their network and most places will whitelist you .
The most popular choice for what to emulate is a Sega Dreamcast ; why that is the case is left as an excercise to the reader...At most places , looking like something that ca n't run their spyware gets you online , but some places want to see the hardware ( especially for game consoles ) , so if you 're concerned , say the machine runs Linux sometimes and show it to them running Linux ( off a LiveCD if you must ) if they ask .
Then use software to make your Windows look like Linux too , and the exception they 'll have put in for " a Linux box with MAC xx : xx : xx : xx : xx " will cover both systems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Software like this invariably uses a technique called TCP stack fingerprinting to determine whether your device is of the sort that requires the software installed.
Basically, invalid or strange TCP packets are sent to you upon first appearance (or at DHCP time or something), and the response to each helps the security system to decide whether you're a Windows box, a Linux box, a handheld something, or a game console, because the stack on each of these systems responds a little differently to out-of-RFC TCP junk.There are several pieces of software out there, most notably OSfuscate (http://www.irongeek.com/i.php?page=security/osfuscate-change-your-windows-os-tcp-ip-fingerprint-to-confuse-p0f-networkminer-ettercap-nmap-and-other-os-detection-tools) and sec\_cloak (http://www.hacker-soft.net/Soft/Soft\_2304.htm, but the link is quite broken), that reconfigure your Windows TCP stack via the registry to appear to these tools like something entirely different.
After doing that, just tell your IT department that you need to get your other device on their network and most places will whitelist you.
The most popular choice for what to emulate is a Sega Dreamcast; why that is the case is left as an excercise to the reader...At most places, looking like something that can't run their spyware gets you online, but some places want to see the hardware (especially for game consoles), so if you're concerned, say the machine runs Linux sometimes and show it to them running Linux (off a LiveCD if you must) if they ask.
Then use software to make your Windows look like Linux too, and the exception they'll have put in for "a Linux box with MAC xx:xx:xx:xx:xx" will cover both systems.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235131</id>
	<title>Our policy is probably a good one</title>
	<author>Daimanta</author>
	<datestamp>1244318160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every computer that needs to access the internet directly needs to have its MAC-adress registered. If something goes wrong, you can trace it back to the MAC-address account. It isn't foolproof(think MAC-spoofing) but there is little more security on our networks(mobile computers need to log in with student accounts).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every computer that needs to access the internet directly needs to have its MAC-adress registered .
If something goes wrong , you can trace it back to the MAC-address account .
It is n't foolproof ( think MAC-spoofing ) but there is little more security on our networks ( mobile computers need to log in with student accounts ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every computer that needs to access the internet directly needs to have its MAC-adress registered.
If something goes wrong, you can trace it back to the MAC-address account.
It isn't foolproof(think MAC-spoofing) but there is little more security on our networks(mobile computers need to log in with student accounts).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234929</id>
	<title>thumb drive linux</title>
	<author>elwinc</author>
	<datestamp>1244317140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Build one of those "linux on a thumb drive" things and do your private stuff on that.

You might be able to get away with a dual boot system; their app on the windows partition and privacy on the linux partition.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Build one of those " linux on a thumb drive " things and do your private stuff on that .
You might be able to get away with a dual boot system ; their app on the windows partition and privacy on the linux partition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Build one of those "linux on a thumb drive" things and do your private stuff on that.
You might be able to get away with a dual boot system; their app on the windows partition and privacy on the linux partition.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236741</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>zedeler</author>
	<datestamp>1244285280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Here is the bottom line. If the campus system is not to your liking, and you absolutely cannot refrain from criminal activity on your computer, and you cannot get into another school, then buy a wire cellular broadband connection.</p> </div><p>This is just the classical "only criminals have something to hide", and I flat out don't agree. There are plenty of other reasons to insist not to have your privacy invaded - just one is that your passwords may be abused by some undergraduate dork working in the IT department.</p><p>Also, I find your comments regarding freedom and how it must be deserved are patronizing and completely missing the point.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here is the bottom line .
If the campus system is not to your liking , and you absolutely can not refrain from criminal activity on your computer , and you can not get into another school , then buy a wire cellular broadband connection .
This is just the classical " only criminals have something to hide " , and I flat out do n't agree .
There are plenty of other reasons to insist not to have your privacy invaded - just one is that your passwords may be abused by some undergraduate dork working in the IT department.Also , I find your comments regarding freedom and how it must be deserved are patronizing and completely missing the point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here is the bottom line.
If the campus system is not to your liking, and you absolutely cannot refrain from criminal activity on your computer, and you cannot get into another school, then buy a wire cellular broadband connection.
This is just the classical "only criminals have something to hide", and I flat out don't agree.
There are plenty of other reasons to insist not to have your privacy invaded - just one is that your passwords may be abused by some undergraduate dork working in the IT department.Also, I find your comments regarding freedom and how it must be deserved are patronizing and completely missing the point.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235159</id>
	<title>Firefox with different User-Agent String</title>
	<author>americamatrix</author>
	<datestamp>1244318220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you've got Firefox installed, you actually have a few options.

To change your User Agent string, type the special URL "about:config" in the browser's location bar to access the browser's properties and do a right click to add a new string property with the name "general.useragent.override" and the value "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 Firefox/1.0.6", or really any user agent string that lacks "windows".

If you experience any problems, go back to the properties list and simply remove the new property "general.useragent.override" you just added.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 've got Firefox installed , you actually have a few options .
To change your User Agent string , type the special URL " about : config " in the browser 's location bar to access the browser 's properties and do a right click to add a new string property with the name " general.useragent.override " and the value " Mozilla/5.0 ( X11 ; U ; Linux i686 ; en-US ; rv : 1.7.10 ) Gecko/20050716 Firefox/1.0.6 " , or really any user agent string that lacks " windows " .
If you experience any problems , go back to the properties list and simply remove the new property " general.useragent.override " you just added .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you've got Firefox installed, you actually have a few options.
To change your User Agent string, type the special URL "about:config" in the browser's location bar to access the browser's properties and do a right click to add a new string property with the name "general.useragent.override" and the value "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 Firefox/1.0.6", or really any user agent string that lacks "windows".
If you experience any problems, go back to the properties list and simply remove the new property "general.useragent.override" you just added.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236497</id>
	<title>solution</title>
	<author>fishbowl</author>
	<datestamp>1244283180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't live on campus.  Don't use any on-campus facilities that force you into a category of an on-campus resident.  Get yourself into a position where you're using facilities that are provided to staff, faculty, and/or grad students.  People who *have* a choice often have a strong opinion on these matters, and the policies tend to be more liberal for them.</p><p>All this might mean "get a job", and it might even mean "get an on-campus job in a professional staff" (as opposed to student labor roles.)</p><p>Another approach is the time-tested "work in the NOC" and then no matter how bad the network infrastructure or policies are, you're above/outside them, since YOU are the sysadmin.</p><p>I did all of the above during my various college careers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't live on campus .
Do n't use any on-campus facilities that force you into a category of an on-campus resident .
Get yourself into a position where you 're using facilities that are provided to staff , faculty , and/or grad students .
People who * have * a choice often have a strong opinion on these matters , and the policies tend to be more liberal for them.All this might mean " get a job " , and it might even mean " get an on-campus job in a professional staff " ( as opposed to student labor roles .
) Another approach is the time-tested " work in the NOC " and then no matter how bad the network infrastructure or policies are , you 're above/outside them , since YOU are the sysadmin.I did all of the above during my various college careers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't live on campus.
Don't use any on-campus facilities that force you into a category of an on-campus resident.
Get yourself into a position where you're using facilities that are provided to staff, faculty, and/or grad students.
People who *have* a choice often have a strong opinion on these matters, and the policies tend to be more liberal for them.All this might mean "get a job", and it might even mean "get an on-campus job in a professional staff" (as opposed to student labor roles.
)Another approach is the time-tested "work in the NOC" and then no matter how bad the network infrastructure or policies are, you're above/outside them, since YOU are the sysadmin.I did all of the above during my various college careers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238861</id>
	<title>Sue the bastards; it's unconstitutional</title>
	<author>PizzaFace</author>
	<datestamp>1244306520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A private university might get away with this, but a public institution is constrained by the Constitution. I'd say that scanning your hard drive is an unconstitutional search, because there are less invasive means of keeping their network safe.</p><p>I can't write your brief for you, but talk to the ACLU and the EFF.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A private university might get away with this , but a public institution is constrained by the Constitution .
I 'd say that scanning your hard drive is an unconstitutional search , because there are less invasive means of keeping their network safe.I ca n't write your brief for you , but talk to the ACLU and the EFF .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A private university might get away with this, but a public institution is constrained by the Constitution.
I'd say that scanning your hard drive is an unconstitutional search, because there are less invasive means of keeping their network safe.I can't write your brief for you, but talk to the ACLU and the EFF.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234911</id>
	<title>Question</title>
	<author>Vinegar Joe</author>
	<datestamp>1244317020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you required to run Windows? If not, don't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you required to run Windows ?
If not , do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you required to run Windows?
If not, don't.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239149</id>
	<title>Run your real system in a NATed VM</title>
	<author>Craig Ringer</author>
	<datestamp>1244310540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It'd be nice to just run the agent in a VM and isolate your real system that way, but it wouldn't work because they'll almost certainly be filtering by MAC address.</p><p>What you \_CAN\_ do is run the agent on the physical host with a minimal OS install, and then put everything else in a VM. Have the VM connect through the real host using NAT, so it has the same MAC address as the real host. The network won't know the difference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 'd be nice to just run the agent in a VM and isolate your real system that way , but it would n't work because they 'll almost certainly be filtering by MAC address.What you \ _CAN \ _ do is run the agent on the physical host with a minimal OS install , and then put everything else in a VM .
Have the VM connect through the real host using NAT , so it has the same MAC address as the real host .
The network wo n't know the difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It'd be nice to just run the agent in a VM and isolate your real system that way, but it wouldn't work because they'll almost certainly be filtering by MAC address.What you \_CAN\_ do is run the agent on the physical host with a minimal OS install, and then put everything else in a VM.
Have the VM connect through the real host using NAT, so it has the same MAC address as the real host.
The network won't know the difference.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234987</id>
	<title>Wireless</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Find somebody that lives off campus - they probably have normal Cable or DSL.  Setup a wireless link to their location and offer to pay for part of their Internet costs.  There can be some complexities involved in setting up the wireless - you probably don't want it to be noticeable otherwise the school may make you take it down, so the shot probably has to be to somewhere you can see from your window.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Find somebody that lives off campus - they probably have normal Cable or DSL .
Setup a wireless link to their location and offer to pay for part of their Internet costs .
There can be some complexities involved in setting up the wireless - you probably do n't want it to be noticeable otherwise the school may make you take it down , so the shot probably has to be to somewhere you can see from your window .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Find somebody that lives off campus - they probably have normal Cable or DSL.
Setup a wireless link to their location and offer to pay for part of their Internet costs.
There can be some complexities involved in setting up the wireless - you probably don't want it to be noticeable otherwise the school may make you take it down, so the shot probably has to be to somewhere you can see from your window.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</id>
	<title>You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm one of the evil characters involved with running a college campus network.  Let me assure you that I couldn't give a rat's ass about what files you have or what's in your email or anything about you, really.  All I care about is keeping the network free enough from malware that it can still function.  It's always a matter of playing the percentages - if more than about 5\% of the machines on the net are infected and misbehaving, the resulting traffic makes the network become essentially unusable for everyone.  Students scream.  Faculty scream.  Then the university president screams at me.</p><p>So all I want is to make sure *enough* people are clean.  If you're clever enough, you can get around the restrictions.  But there aren't *that* many clever people, and those people usually aren't getting infected with stuff anyway, so I don't care about the outliers.</p><p>You're not a person to me.  You're a data point.  Don't be an interesting one and we'll all get along just fine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm one of the evil characters involved with running a college campus network .
Let me assure you that I could n't give a rat 's ass about what files you have or what 's in your email or anything about you , really .
All I care about is keeping the network free enough from malware that it can still function .
It 's always a matter of playing the percentages - if more than about 5 \ % of the machines on the net are infected and misbehaving , the resulting traffic makes the network become essentially unusable for everyone .
Students scream .
Faculty scream .
Then the university president screams at me.So all I want is to make sure * enough * people are clean .
If you 're clever enough , you can get around the restrictions .
But there are n't * that * many clever people , and those people usually are n't getting infected with stuff anyway , so I do n't care about the outliers.You 're not a person to me .
You 're a data point .
Do n't be an interesting one and we 'll all get along just fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm one of the evil characters involved with running a college campus network.
Let me assure you that I couldn't give a rat's ass about what files you have or what's in your email or anything about you, really.
All I care about is keeping the network free enough from malware that it can still function.
It's always a matter of playing the percentages - if more than about 5\% of the machines on the net are infected and misbehaving, the resulting traffic makes the network become essentially unusable for everyone.
Students scream.
Faculty scream.
Then the university president screams at me.So all I want is to make sure *enough* people are clean.
If you're clever enough, you can get around the restrictions.
But there aren't *that* many clever people, and those people usually aren't getting infected with stuff anyway, so I don't care about the outliers.You're not a person to me.
You're a data point.
Don't be an interesting one and we'll all get along just fine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234995</id>
	<title>entrepreneur</title>
	<author>TheSHAD0W</author>
	<datestamp>1244317440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>"There are no wireless broadband providers available in the area, I already checked."</i></p><p>Start one.  Given what you've told us, there should be plenty of demand.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" There are no wireless broadband providers available in the area , I already checked .
" Start one .
Given what you 've told us , there should be plenty of demand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"There are no wireless broadband providers available in the area, I already checked.
"Start one.
Given what you've told us, there should be plenty of demand.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236123</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244280660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is stupid on so many levels.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is stupid on so many levels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is stupid on so many levels.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235735</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239885</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244367000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You've missed (or ignored), the point.</p><p>There is no reason your core needs to be that vulnerable.  If \%5 of your users are able to degrade your network to such a level that it is not usable, you've over committed your network.</p><p>I'm not saying this is your case but if you have 50 1Gig drops in a dorm with 2 1 Gig uplinks, it's not a security problem when your network crumbles.  It's a design flaw.  You can mitigate it to a point with CAR, dedicated paths, etc., but it is ultimately a flaw.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've missed ( or ignored ) , the point.There is no reason your core needs to be that vulnerable .
If \ % 5 of your users are able to degrade your network to such a level that it is not usable , you 've over committed your network.I 'm not saying this is your case but if you have 50 1Gig drops in a dorm with 2 1 Gig uplinks , it 's not a security problem when your network crumbles .
It 's a design flaw .
You can mitigate it to a point with CAR , dedicated paths , etc. , but it is ultimately a flaw .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've missed (or ignored), the point.There is no reason your core needs to be that vulnerable.
If \%5 of your users are able to degrade your network to such a level that it is not usable, you've over committed your network.I'm not saying this is your case but if you have 50 1Gig drops in a dorm with 2 1 Gig uplinks, it's not a security problem when your network crumbles.
It's a design flaw.
You can mitigate it to a point with CAR, dedicated paths, etc., but it is ultimately a flaw.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237045</id>
	<title>Get a Cable Modem</title>
	<author>theJML</author>
	<datestamp>1244288160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It sounds funny, but I had a few friends that did this on our campus. The LAN wasn't quite as draconian as what you describe, but it did have limits/blocks on certian P2P, A really weird and sometimes non-functional routing setup, and bandwidth caps (whether inter- or intra-net). We were already signed up for Cable TV with the local cable company (the campus was fully wired for cable, but it was run by one of the local cable providers. Sort of a monopoly as in the dorms you could ONLY get their cable, but it wasn't bad and split up 4 ways was fine.) In any case, we didn't like the crappy local access, so we bought a cable modem and split the 15/5 internet fee. Had to go through some odd, duct-tape and wall-scaling involved methods for running the wires, but it worked perfectly, let us do everything we wanted, was faster and less crazy than the college LAN. I highly recommend it. Sure the money you'd be 'wasting' from not using the university's lan sucks, but whatever. And if you want, you can have a computer setup to boot from USB for when you need to access the local lan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds funny , but I had a few friends that did this on our campus .
The LAN was n't quite as draconian as what you describe , but it did have limits/blocks on certian P2P , A really weird and sometimes non-functional routing setup , and bandwidth caps ( whether inter- or intra-net ) .
We were already signed up for Cable TV with the local cable company ( the campus was fully wired for cable , but it was run by one of the local cable providers .
Sort of a monopoly as in the dorms you could ONLY get their cable , but it was n't bad and split up 4 ways was fine .
) In any case , we did n't like the crappy local access , so we bought a cable modem and split the 15/5 internet fee .
Had to go through some odd , duct-tape and wall-scaling involved methods for running the wires , but it worked perfectly , let us do everything we wanted , was faster and less crazy than the college LAN .
I highly recommend it .
Sure the money you 'd be 'wasting ' from not using the university 's lan sucks , but whatever .
And if you want , you can have a computer setup to boot from USB for when you need to access the local lan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds funny, but I had a few friends that did this on our campus.
The LAN wasn't quite as draconian as what you describe, but it did have limits/blocks on certian P2P, A really weird and sometimes non-functional routing setup, and bandwidth caps (whether inter- or intra-net).
We were already signed up for Cable TV with the local cable company (the campus was fully wired for cable, but it was run by one of the local cable providers.
Sort of a monopoly as in the dorms you could ONLY get their cable, but it wasn't bad and split up 4 ways was fine.
) In any case, we didn't like the crappy local access, so we bought a cable modem and split the 15/5 internet fee.
Had to go through some odd, duct-tape and wall-scaling involved methods for running the wires, but it worked perfectly, let us do everything we wanted, was faster and less crazy than the college LAN.
I highly recommend it.
Sure the money you'd be 'wasting' from not using the university's lan sucks, but whatever.
And if you want, you can have a computer setup to boot from USB for when you need to access the local lan.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28249513</id>
	<title>Its Bradford Campus Manager</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244467140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Looking at the link the OP provided, his school is using Bradford Campus Manager as its NAC solution.  Having used the product myself, I can tell you a few things about it.</p><p>1.  If your school has the latest release, the agent runs on Windows/Mac and Linux.  So using Linux will not get you around it.<br>2.  The agent scans for Antivirus, Antispyware and patch level compliance for the OS.  It also has the capability to scan for a certain process or registry key.  Most deployments only make use of the first 3 functions.  The administrators have no ability to look at your documents using the agent.  There is no feedback from the client to the admins beyond what its scanning for<br>3.  The agent includes a messaging feature which is pretty useful actually.  It allows the admins to send messages to any and all agents on PCs connected to their network.  They could make use of that to let you know when the network is going down or for an emergency alert system, like an armed intruder on campus.</p><p>There is no reason to be paranoid though.  I used to run this solution on my campus for a year (we stopped because the remediation process is via vlan switching which can be cumbersome) and its one of the less intrusive nac solutions that a university can deploy.  A lot less intrusive than cisco clean access for example.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looking at the link the OP provided , his school is using Bradford Campus Manager as its NAC solution .
Having used the product myself , I can tell you a few things about it.1 .
If your school has the latest release , the agent runs on Windows/Mac and Linux .
So using Linux will not get you around it.2 .
The agent scans for Antivirus , Antispyware and patch level compliance for the OS .
It also has the capability to scan for a certain process or registry key .
Most deployments only make use of the first 3 functions .
The administrators have no ability to look at your documents using the agent .
There is no feedback from the client to the admins beyond what its scanning for3 .
The agent includes a messaging feature which is pretty useful actually .
It allows the admins to send messages to any and all agents on PCs connected to their network .
They could make use of that to let you know when the network is going down or for an emergency alert system , like an armed intruder on campus.There is no reason to be paranoid though .
I used to run this solution on my campus for a year ( we stopped because the remediation process is via vlan switching which can be cumbersome ) and its one of the less intrusive nac solutions that a university can deploy .
A lot less intrusive than cisco clean access for example .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looking at the link the OP provided, his school is using Bradford Campus Manager as its NAC solution.
Having used the product myself, I can tell you a few things about it.1.
If your school has the latest release, the agent runs on Windows/Mac and Linux.
So using Linux will not get you around it.2.
The agent scans for Antivirus, Antispyware and patch level compliance for the OS.
It also has the capability to scan for a certain process or registry key.
Most deployments only make use of the first 3 functions.
The administrators have no ability to look at your documents using the agent.
There is no feedback from the client to the admins beyond what its scanning for3.
The agent includes a messaging feature which is pretty useful actually.
It allows the admins to send messages to any and all agents on PCs connected to their network.
They could make use of that to let you know when the network is going down or for an emergency alert system, like an armed intruder on campus.There is no reason to be paranoid though.
I used to run this solution on my campus for a year (we stopped because the remediation process is via vlan switching which can be cumbersome) and its one of the less intrusive nac solutions that a university can deploy.
A lot less intrusive than cisco clean access for example.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244320500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You seem to be confused.  You are paying the school money for the ability to attend their classes.  You are paying the school for the ability to use their network.</p><p>In no way do you have merit to dictate those terms.  If you don't like it, then don't attend or try to convince them to change those terms.  Either way, "Adults" should understand this is a contract, and you have very little negotiating power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You seem to be confused .
You are paying the school money for the ability to attend their classes .
You are paying the school for the ability to use their network.In no way do you have merit to dictate those terms .
If you do n't like it , then do n't attend or try to convince them to change those terms .
Either way , " Adults " should understand this is a contract , and you have very little negotiating power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You seem to be confused.
You are paying the school money for the ability to attend their classes.
You are paying the school for the ability to use their network.In no way do you have merit to dictate those terms.
If you don't like it, then don't attend or try to convince them to change those terms.
Either way, "Adults" should understand this is a contract, and you have very little negotiating power.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28250109</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244471100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd go one step further and use thine own computer and Internet connection. At my school, I found numerous security vulnerabilities that I no longer trust them. Thus I use my own laptop and a wimax internet connection.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd go one step further and use thine own computer and Internet connection .
At my school , I found numerous security vulnerabilities that I no longer trust them .
Thus I use my own laptop and a wimax internet connection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd go one step further and use thine own computer and Internet connection.
At my school, I found numerous security vulnerabilities that I no longer trust them.
Thus I use my own laptop and a wimax internet connection.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235349</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235499</id>
	<title>I wonder if there's another approach.</title>
	<author>JakiChan</author>
	<datestamp>1244320020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't see justifying giving the university access to private machines.  Especially with the attitude of most college admins I know.  But I understand the overall goal, and was wondering - why can't an IDS/IPS do this?  I mean you make people register their MACs, use 802.1x for DHCP, run snort or something, and if something wonky is detected you block 'em and make them contact you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't see justifying giving the university access to private machines .
Especially with the attitude of most college admins I know .
But I understand the overall goal , and was wondering - why ca n't an IDS/IPS do this ?
I mean you make people register their MACs , use 802.1x for DHCP , run snort or something , and if something wonky is detected you block 'em and make them contact you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't see justifying giving the university access to private machines.
Especially with the attitude of most college admins I know.
But I understand the overall goal, and was wondering - why can't an IDS/IPS do this?
I mean you make people register their MACs, use 802.1x for DHCP, run snort or something, and if something wonky is detected you block 'em and make them contact you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241607</id>
	<title>Use money to evade it!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244393040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you are so worried about them finding something on your computer buy a satellite internet plan, then you don't have to worry about some guy in a dark IT room breaking into your computer looking for illegal property<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;P</p><p>You could also get one of those cheap mini-laptops, they will run you like $250, and only use that computer when you are at school</p><p>I really wouldn't worry about it though, unless you do have something on your computer you could potentially get busted for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are so worried about them finding something on your computer buy a satellite internet plan , then you do n't have to worry about some guy in a dark IT room breaking into your computer looking for illegal property ; PYou could also get one of those cheap mini-laptops , they will run you like $ 250 , and only use that computer when you are at schoolI really would n't worry about it though , unless you do have something on your computer you could potentially get busted for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are so worried about them finding something on your computer buy a satellite internet plan, then you don't have to worry about some guy in a dark IT room breaking into your computer looking for illegal property ;PYou could also get one of those cheap mini-laptops, they will run you like $250, and only use that computer when you are at schoolI really wouldn't worry about it though, unless you do have something on your computer you could potentially get busted for.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237463</id>
	<title>Wireless Internet in Mount Pleasant</title>
	<author>BBCWatcher</author>
	<datestamp>1244292420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wireless Internet service is available in Mount Pleasant, Michigan -- at least in certain areas. <a href="http://www.cmsinter.net/?page\_id=460" title="cmsinter.net">CMS Internet</a> [cmsinter.net] offers wireless starting at $29.95 per month. <a href="http://www.wmiswireless.com/" title="wmiswireless.com">WMS Wireless</a> [wmiswireless.com] is another possible option, but their price is higher. Another company called <a href="http://interactive.ispmgt.com/pages/Wireless\_Internet" title="ispmgt.com">ISP Management</a> [ispmgt.com] offers wireless Internet as well, but their rates are not published online.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wireless Internet service is available in Mount Pleasant , Michigan -- at least in certain areas .
CMS Internet [ cmsinter.net ] offers wireless starting at $ 29.95 per month .
WMS Wireless [ wmiswireless.com ] is another possible option , but their price is higher .
Another company called ISP Management [ ispmgt.com ] offers wireless Internet as well , but their rates are not published online .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wireless Internet service is available in Mount Pleasant, Michigan -- at least in certain areas.
CMS Internet [cmsinter.net] offers wireless starting at $29.95 per month.
WMS Wireless [wmiswireless.com] is another possible option, but their price is higher.
Another company called ISP Management [ispmgt.com] offers wireless Internet as well, but their rates are not published online.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240759</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>minder49</author>
	<datestamp>1244383020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Whatever it is, it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university that I'm paying money to dictate that I have to have their software on my machine to use the Internet access that my tuition and fees are paying for!</p></div></blockquote><p>

Gee, I thought you were paying tuition for the education you are trying to get.  If it is all about the internet access, well, I can see why you are upset!  Thats alot of money to pay for surfing the web, but at least the classes are free!<br> <br>

Grow up.  You are using resources that belong to the university.  They determine the conditions under which those resources are used and allocated.  You don't like it, don't use it.  That is why the colleges and universities have open computer labs.  Use their equipment, and you have no fears!<br> <br>

This rampant attitude of entitlement that is being expressed here is making me sick.  This is nothing but an issue of the university trying to make sure a valuable resource is available to its students.  It is not an attempt to scan your fils, track your surfing or blocking your downloads.  You are not that important.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Whatever it is , it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university that I 'm paying money to dictate that I have to have their software on my machine to use the Internet access that my tuition and fees are paying for !
Gee , I thought you were paying tuition for the education you are trying to get .
If it is all about the internet access , well , I can see why you are upset !
Thats alot of money to pay for surfing the web , but at least the classes are free !
Grow up .
You are using resources that belong to the university .
They determine the conditions under which those resources are used and allocated .
You do n't like it , do n't use it .
That is why the colleges and universities have open computer labs .
Use their equipment , and you have no fears !
This rampant attitude of entitlement that is being expressed here is making me sick .
This is nothing but an issue of the university trying to make sure a valuable resource is available to its students .
It is not an attempt to scan your fils , track your surfing or blocking your downloads .
You are not that important .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whatever it is, it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university that I'm paying money to dictate that I have to have their software on my machine to use the Internet access that my tuition and fees are paying for!
Gee, I thought you were paying tuition for the education you are trying to get.
If it is all about the internet access, well, I can see why you are upset!
Thats alot of money to pay for surfing the web, but at least the classes are free!
Grow up.
You are using resources that belong to the university.
They determine the conditions under which those resources are used and allocated.
You don't like it, don't use it.
That is why the colleges and universities have open computer labs.
Use their equipment, and you have no fears!
This rampant attitude of entitlement that is being expressed here is making me sick.
This is nothing but an issue of the university trying to make sure a valuable resource is available to its students.
It is not an attempt to scan your fils, track your surfing or blocking your downloads.
You are not that important.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235331</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>Registered Coward v2</author>
	<datestamp>1244319180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Looks to me like a clear-cut case of some overzealous IT goob forgotting who is paying whose salary.  I'm not saying that you're the Chairman of the Board, but you most certainly should expect to have the right to have full access to this academic resource without this kind of burden.</p></div><p>You seem to be confused about who really matters at a university.  Clue: The faculty.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Looks to me like a clear-cut case of some overzealous IT goob forgotting who is paying whose salary .
I 'm not saying that you 're the Chairman of the Board , but you most certainly should expect to have the right to have full access to this academic resource without this kind of burden.You seem to be confused about who really matters at a university .
Clue : The faculty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looks to me like a clear-cut case of some overzealous IT goob forgotting who is paying whose salary.
I'm not saying that you're the Chairman of the Board, but you most certainly should expect to have the right to have full access to this academic resource without this kind of burden.You seem to be confused about who really matters at a university.
Clue: The faculty.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236307</id>
	<title>Avoid the spyware with a VM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244281860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Avoid the ""Client Security Agent" (spyware) by installing a copy of the OS in a virtual machine (VM), and have that machine act as a NAT firewall for your main operating system (Linux, BSD, MacOS, Win, whatever).  The spyware runs in the VM, which has none of your stuff available to it, and everything else runs on the real host (with no spyware).</p><p>They can still spy on your packets, but they could do that even without spyware, so no loss there.</p><p>Cheers</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Avoid the " " Client Security Agent " ( spyware ) by installing a copy of the OS in a virtual machine ( VM ) , and have that machine act as a NAT firewall for your main operating system ( Linux , BSD , MacOS , Win , whatever ) .
The spyware runs in the VM , which has none of your stuff available to it , and everything else runs on the real host ( with no spyware ) .They can still spy on your packets , but they could do that even without spyware , so no loss there.Cheers</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Avoid the ""Client Security Agent" (spyware) by installing a copy of the OS in a virtual machine (VM), and have that machine act as a NAT firewall for your main operating system (Linux, BSD, MacOS, Win, whatever).
The spyware runs in the VM, which has none of your stuff available to it, and everything else runs on the real host (with no spyware).They can still spy on your packets, but they could do that even without spyware, so no loss there.Cheers</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235005</id>
	<title>Whoa what?</title>
	<author>IICV</author>
	<datestamp>1244317500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the first link:</p><blockquote><div><p>The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMU unless the contents are licensed software, licensed databases (e.g., InfoShare), intellectual property owned by others, or protected by CMU's Intellectual Property Rights Policy. The university has the right of access to the contents at any time for any legitimate purpose including moving or deleting files to preserve system security and performance, or examining files when there is a legitimate "need to know."</p></div></blockquote><p>"If you use our network, we own what's on your hard drives. Thanks!"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From the first link : The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMU unless the contents are licensed software , licensed databases ( e.g. , InfoShare ) , intellectual property owned by others , or protected by CMU 's Intellectual Property Rights Policy .
The university has the right of access to the contents at any time for any legitimate purpose including moving or deleting files to preserve system security and performance , or examining files when there is a legitimate " need to know .
" " If you use our network , we own what 's on your hard drives .
Thanks ! "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the first link:The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMU unless the contents are licensed software, licensed databases (e.g., InfoShare), intellectual property owned by others, or protected by CMU's Intellectual Property Rights Policy.
The university has the right of access to the contents at any time for any legitimate purpose including moving or deleting files to preserve system security and performance, or examining files when there is a legitimate "need to know.
""If you use our network, we own what's on your hard drives.
Thanks!"
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235201</id>
	<title>Have you ever read a ULA?</title>
	<author>mediis</author>
	<datestamp>1244318460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you think this is bad, then you better freaking skip working in the IT field; where everything is scanned, deep packet inspections, and if you ever place a personal laptop on the network they install a secret application to monitor you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think this is bad , then you better freaking skip working in the IT field ; where everything is scanned , deep packet inspections , and if you ever place a personal laptop on the network they install a secret application to monitor you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think this is bad, then you better freaking skip working in the IT field; where everything is scanned, deep packet inspections, and if you ever place a personal laptop on the network they install a secret application to monitor you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239625</id>
	<title>Question for college network admins</title>
	<author>pbaer</author>
	<datestamp>1244318340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My university has a ban on using wireless routers in dorms. What are some plausible reasons for doing that? They already require anyone who wants internet access to run antivirus and the Bradford Persistent Agent. This might also be true for intranet access. The university provides wireless in some areas, but not in any dorms.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My university has a ban on using wireless routers in dorms .
What are some plausible reasons for doing that ?
They already require anyone who wants internet access to run antivirus and the Bradford Persistent Agent .
This might also be true for intranet access .
The university provides wireless in some areas , but not in any dorms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My university has a ban on using wireless routers in dorms.
What are some plausible reasons for doing that?
They already require anyone who wants internet access to run antivirus and the Bradford Persistent Agent.
This might also be true for intranet access.
The university provides wireless in some areas, but not in any dorms.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28275895</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>green\_shadow622</author>
	<datestamp>1244574120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mine neither, All it requires us to do to have access to its wireless network is login with our student ID and password. And even so, most people with laptops just take the ethernet cables from the computers and jack their laptops right in instead, since it's alot easier, and since the wifi at my college kinda sucks, especially in the tech sector. And on top of all that, our college network is usually infected with 1 or 2 viruses at once that AVG gets each and every time, but our IT people just can't seem to get rid of. Ahhhh, the joys of knowing your tuition fees are well spent in making sure that the employees are not competent whatsoever in their field of expertise.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mine neither , All it requires us to do to have access to its wireless network is login with our student ID and password .
And even so , most people with laptops just take the ethernet cables from the computers and jack their laptops right in instead , since it 's alot easier , and since the wifi at my college kinda sucks , especially in the tech sector .
And on top of all that , our college network is usually infected with 1 or 2 viruses at once that AVG gets each and every time , but our IT people just ca n't seem to get rid of .
Ahhhh , the joys of knowing your tuition fees are well spent in making sure that the employees are not competent whatsoever in their field of expertise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mine neither, All it requires us to do to have access to its wireless network is login with our student ID and password.
And even so, most people with laptops just take the ethernet cables from the computers and jack their laptops right in instead, since it's alot easier, and since the wifi at my college kinda sucks, especially in the tech sector.
And on top of all that, our college network is usually infected with 1 or 2 viruses at once that AVG gets each and every time, but our IT people just can't seem to get rid of.
Ahhhh, the joys of knowing your tuition fees are well spent in making sure that the employees are not competent whatsoever in their field of expertise.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417</id>
	<title>That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244319600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I'm not sure who provides their CSA, but ours only checks for antivirus, antivirus updates, windows updates, and common P2P programs (usually limewire).</p></div></blockquote><p>So?  I don't care if it makes your dorm room smell like a fresh spring breeze.  If I don't want it, then you have <i>no right</i> to demand that I have it.  If you were a private company, then maybe I can understand, it's your network, you have the right to set the rules.  Even if you're a private university, though, I most certainly do <i>not</i> understand, because again, MY tuition and fees pay for that network, and Internet access is pretty much required to complete just about any degree these days.  Deny it, and you might as well tell a student that he can't have any textbooks.</p><p>Not to mention that it sounds like you've fallen into the same trap that the RIAA/MPAA has fallen into.  "Because some people use Limewire for illegal purposes, since you have it installed, you <i>must</i> be using it for illegal purposes."  Sorry bub, but the whole "guilty until proven innocent" thing doesn't fly very well with me.</p><p>If you have some reasonable suspicion based on tangible evidence that my machine is spewing out malware or otherwise violating policies designed to protect the university or its network, then by all means, shut off it's connection, show me what you've got, and we'll deal with it like adults.  I wouldn't want my machine, if infected, to convey malware any more than you do.  If you want to make such a "Client Security Agent" available for me to use, then thanks, I'll consider it.</p><p>But again, it is <i>my machine</i>, and it is <i>my money</i> that is paying for that Internet connection.  Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me.  "You <i>might</i> get infected or break copyright law" is <i>not</i> a valid excuse.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure who provides their CSA , but ours only checks for antivirus , antivirus updates , windows updates , and common P2P programs ( usually limewire ) .So ?
I do n't care if it makes your dorm room smell like a fresh spring breeze .
If I do n't want it , then you have no right to demand that I have it .
If you were a private company , then maybe I can understand , it 's your network , you have the right to set the rules .
Even if you 're a private university , though , I most certainly do not understand , because again , MY tuition and fees pay for that network , and Internet access is pretty much required to complete just about any degree these days .
Deny it , and you might as well tell a student that he ca n't have any textbooks.Not to mention that it sounds like you 've fallen into the same trap that the RIAA/MPAA has fallen into .
" Because some people use Limewire for illegal purposes , since you have it installed , you must be using it for illegal purposes .
" Sorry bub , but the whole " guilty until proven innocent " thing does n't fly very well with me.If you have some reasonable suspicion based on tangible evidence that my machine is spewing out malware or otherwise violating policies designed to protect the university or its network , then by all means , shut off it 's connection , show me what you 've got , and we 'll deal with it like adults .
I would n't want my machine , if infected , to convey malware any more than you do .
If you want to make such a " Client Security Agent " available for me to use , then thanks , I 'll consider it.But again , it is my machine , and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection .
Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free , it is a paid-for service , and you 'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me .
" You might get infected or break copyright law " is not a valid excuse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure who provides their CSA, but ours only checks for antivirus, antivirus updates, windows updates, and common P2P programs (usually limewire).So?
I don't care if it makes your dorm room smell like a fresh spring breeze.
If I don't want it, then you have no right to demand that I have it.
If you were a private company, then maybe I can understand, it's your network, you have the right to set the rules.
Even if you're a private university, though, I most certainly do not understand, because again, MY tuition and fees pay for that network, and Internet access is pretty much required to complete just about any degree these days.
Deny it, and you might as well tell a student that he can't have any textbooks.Not to mention that it sounds like you've fallen into the same trap that the RIAA/MPAA has fallen into.
"Because some people use Limewire for illegal purposes, since you have it installed, you must be using it for illegal purposes.
"  Sorry bub, but the whole "guilty until proven innocent" thing doesn't fly very well with me.If you have some reasonable suspicion based on tangible evidence that my machine is spewing out malware or otherwise violating policies designed to protect the university or its network, then by all means, shut off it's connection, show me what you've got, and we'll deal with it like adults.
I wouldn't want my machine, if infected, to convey malware any more than you do.
If you want to make such a "Client Security Agent" available for me to use, then thanks, I'll consider it.But again, it is my machine, and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection.
Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me.
"You might get infected or break copyright law" is not a valid excuse.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241847</id>
	<title>Your fear is misplaced.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244395140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work for Western Michigan University and we have a similar implementation here, utilizing a system to ensure that the student computers in the dormitory are audited for security patches and antiviral updates.</p><p>I can tell you that with the economical conditions that affect Michigan's public universities, CMU cannot afford the manpower to monitor the more private aspects of student computing.  They won't utilize the system to check for piracy.  This doesnt mean you won't have to worry about the RIAA or MPAA, but I can tell you with reasonable assurance that your fear is misplaced.</p><p>I would recommend utilizing a VPN such as hamachi for certain network communication, CMU may provide a solution available to students when you arrive (as we have at WMU).</p><p>Last but not least, Go Broncos.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work for Western Michigan University and we have a similar implementation here , utilizing a system to ensure that the student computers in the dormitory are audited for security patches and antiviral updates.I can tell you that with the economical conditions that affect Michigan 's public universities , CMU can not afford the manpower to monitor the more private aspects of student computing .
They wo n't utilize the system to check for piracy .
This doesnt mean you wo n't have to worry about the RIAA or MPAA , but I can tell you with reasonable assurance that your fear is misplaced.I would recommend utilizing a VPN such as hamachi for certain network communication , CMU may provide a solution available to students when you arrive ( as we have at WMU ) .Last but not least , Go Broncos .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work for Western Michigan University and we have a similar implementation here, utilizing a system to ensure that the student computers in the dormitory are audited for security patches and antiviral updates.I can tell you that with the economical conditions that affect Michigan's public universities, CMU cannot afford the manpower to monitor the more private aspects of student computing.
They won't utilize the system to check for piracy.
This doesnt mean you won't have to worry about the RIAA or MPAA, but I can tell you with reasonable assurance that your fear is misplaced.I would recommend utilizing a VPN such as hamachi for certain network communication, CMU may provide a solution available to students when you arrive (as we have at WMU).Last but not least, Go Broncos.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235553</id>
	<title>Don't Worry Too Much</title>
	<author>Monkeyboy0076</author>
	<datestamp>1244320320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've actually gone to CMU for the past 4 years (just graduated) and wanted to let you know that the policies on campus are not as evil as the OIT page makes them out to be.  The CSA program, which is required to gain access to the university network from the residence halls (resnet) is a run-once program that only checks to make sure that you have all critical WIndows Updates and an anti-virus program installed.  After the agent has run and you are successfully connected to the network, you can simply delete the file and reboot to make sure that it is no longer running.  They are essentially just whit-listing your MAC address.  If this is still a problem for you there are a couple of solutions.  First, you can contact the OIT helpdesk and talk to them about manually registering your computer. They allow this manual registration process for game consoles and other systems that do not have a browser. I'm not sure if they would still want to inspect your computer (they don't want conficker running around the network) but if you carefully explain your concerns and situation to them I'm sure there is something that you can work out (I do recommend doing this before you move in as network registration is crazy for the first week).  The second option is to not use the resnet services. I think that all academic buildings on campus have at least 802.11b wi-fi that is on a separate registration system and does not require use of CSA. You can choose to use the CMICH\_GOLD network which is WPA2 encrypted and supports up to 802.11n in some buildings (Pearce is one of them) or the cmich network which is usually 802.11b and is not encrypted. Granted, you will need to leave your dorm and seek out one of the academic buildings or the library, but that's the price you'll have to pay for not wanting to run the CSA.


Beyond the network registration policies, there are a couple of other things that you may want to watch out for when using the network.  First, and most importantly, is the bandwidth limit they have on residential machines.  The last time I was in the dorms (2 years ago) the weekly limit was 5GB of total traffic (up/down) which reset on Saturday night/Sunday morning (game consoles are not subject to this limit if properly registered). They claim they will not monitor what you do on the internet in terms of what sites you visit etc. but there is a blacklist of dangerous sites that will be blocked (you'll see a friendly octopus). As far as I know they do not throttle or filter bandwidth for things like BitTorrent, but they do comply with any requests from the RIAA/MPAA about pirated materials.  Again, I've been out of the dorms for 2 years so I haven't kept completely current with changes to ResNet. I do know that computers in academic buildings (labs and personal computers over wifi) are not subject to this bandwidth cap (so do your downloading from your laptop between classes).


I know this may sound like I'm a shill for CMU's OIT, but this is not the case.  I am currently employed by the university but do not work for the networking group or the Office of Information Technology. I just wanted to help clear up some of the concerns you had about how to get connected when you get up to CMU.  I personally don't think it is too bad, but I also do not like having some program running through my computer to get on the network even though the program no longer runs after you have been registered. If you still have concerns about the policies in place I strongly suggest calling the OIT Help Desk and working with them to find a solution. I can't imagine that you were the first person to have some problems with this. I'm pretty impressed that you checked the polices out before move in as I went over my network quota the first day of freshman year without realizing what I was doing (it was only 1GB/week back then). I've been using CMU's network for four years and have not felt that my private data is being exposed to the university. Most networking folks I've dealt with on campus are too busy trying to keep everything up and running to bother with watching your email go through the network. Just keep up your normal safe browsing habits and keep in mind the use policies and I don't think you'll have a problem with the network. Good luck.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've actually gone to CMU for the past 4 years ( just graduated ) and wanted to let you know that the policies on campus are not as evil as the OIT page makes them out to be .
The CSA program , which is required to gain access to the university network from the residence halls ( resnet ) is a run-once program that only checks to make sure that you have all critical WIndows Updates and an anti-virus program installed .
After the agent has run and you are successfully connected to the network , you can simply delete the file and reboot to make sure that it is no longer running .
They are essentially just whit-listing your MAC address .
If this is still a problem for you there are a couple of solutions .
First , you can contact the OIT helpdesk and talk to them about manually registering your computer .
They allow this manual registration process for game consoles and other systems that do not have a browser .
I 'm not sure if they would still want to inspect your computer ( they do n't want conficker running around the network ) but if you carefully explain your concerns and situation to them I 'm sure there is something that you can work out ( I do recommend doing this before you move in as network registration is crazy for the first week ) .
The second option is to not use the resnet services .
I think that all academic buildings on campus have at least 802.11b wi-fi that is on a separate registration system and does not require use of CSA .
You can choose to use the CMICH \ _GOLD network which is WPA2 encrypted and supports up to 802.11n in some buildings ( Pearce is one of them ) or the cmich network which is usually 802.11b and is not encrypted .
Granted , you will need to leave your dorm and seek out one of the academic buildings or the library , but that 's the price you 'll have to pay for not wanting to run the CSA .
Beyond the network registration policies , there are a couple of other things that you may want to watch out for when using the network .
First , and most importantly , is the bandwidth limit they have on residential machines .
The last time I was in the dorms ( 2 years ago ) the weekly limit was 5GB of total traffic ( up/down ) which reset on Saturday night/Sunday morning ( game consoles are not subject to this limit if properly registered ) .
They claim they will not monitor what you do on the internet in terms of what sites you visit etc .
but there is a blacklist of dangerous sites that will be blocked ( you 'll see a friendly octopus ) .
As far as I know they do not throttle or filter bandwidth for things like BitTorrent , but they do comply with any requests from the RIAA/MPAA about pirated materials .
Again , I 've been out of the dorms for 2 years so I have n't kept completely current with changes to ResNet .
I do know that computers in academic buildings ( labs and personal computers over wifi ) are not subject to this bandwidth cap ( so do your downloading from your laptop between classes ) .
I know this may sound like I 'm a shill for CMU 's OIT , but this is not the case .
I am currently employed by the university but do not work for the networking group or the Office of Information Technology .
I just wanted to help clear up some of the concerns you had about how to get connected when you get up to CMU .
I personally do n't think it is too bad , but I also do not like having some program running through my computer to get on the network even though the program no longer runs after you have been registered .
If you still have concerns about the policies in place I strongly suggest calling the OIT Help Desk and working with them to find a solution .
I ca n't imagine that you were the first person to have some problems with this .
I 'm pretty impressed that you checked the polices out before move in as I went over my network quota the first day of freshman year without realizing what I was doing ( it was only 1GB/week back then ) .
I 've been using CMU 's network for four years and have not felt that my private data is being exposed to the university .
Most networking folks I 've dealt with on campus are too busy trying to keep everything up and running to bother with watching your email go through the network .
Just keep up your normal safe browsing habits and keep in mind the use policies and I do n't think you 'll have a problem with the network .
Good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've actually gone to CMU for the past 4 years (just graduated) and wanted to let you know that the policies on campus are not as evil as the OIT page makes them out to be.
The CSA program, which is required to gain access to the university network from the residence halls (resnet) is a run-once program that only checks to make sure that you have all critical WIndows Updates and an anti-virus program installed.
After the agent has run and you are successfully connected to the network, you can simply delete the file and reboot to make sure that it is no longer running.
They are essentially just whit-listing your MAC address.
If this is still a problem for you there are a couple of solutions.
First, you can contact the OIT helpdesk and talk to them about manually registering your computer.
They allow this manual registration process for game consoles and other systems that do not have a browser.
I'm not sure if they would still want to inspect your computer (they don't want conficker running around the network) but if you carefully explain your concerns and situation to them I'm sure there is something that you can work out (I do recommend doing this before you move in as network registration is crazy for the first week).
The second option is to not use the resnet services.
I think that all academic buildings on campus have at least 802.11b wi-fi that is on a separate registration system and does not require use of CSA.
You can choose to use the CMICH\_GOLD network which is WPA2 encrypted and supports up to 802.11n in some buildings (Pearce is one of them) or the cmich network which is usually 802.11b and is not encrypted.
Granted, you will need to leave your dorm and seek out one of the academic buildings or the library, but that's the price you'll have to pay for not wanting to run the CSA.
Beyond the network registration policies, there are a couple of other things that you may want to watch out for when using the network.
First, and most importantly, is the bandwidth limit they have on residential machines.
The last time I was in the dorms (2 years ago) the weekly limit was 5GB of total traffic (up/down) which reset on Saturday night/Sunday morning (game consoles are not subject to this limit if properly registered).
They claim they will not monitor what you do on the internet in terms of what sites you visit etc.
but there is a blacklist of dangerous sites that will be blocked (you'll see a friendly octopus).
As far as I know they do not throttle or filter bandwidth for things like BitTorrent, but they do comply with any requests from the RIAA/MPAA about pirated materials.
Again, I've been out of the dorms for 2 years so I haven't kept completely current with changes to ResNet.
I do know that computers in academic buildings (labs and personal computers over wifi) are not subject to this bandwidth cap (so do your downloading from your laptop between classes).
I know this may sound like I'm a shill for CMU's OIT, but this is not the case.
I am currently employed by the university but do not work for the networking group or the Office of Information Technology.
I just wanted to help clear up some of the concerns you had about how to get connected when you get up to CMU.
I personally don't think it is too bad, but I also do not like having some program running through my computer to get on the network even though the program no longer runs after you have been registered.
If you still have concerns about the policies in place I strongly suggest calling the OIT Help Desk and working with them to find a solution.
I can't imagine that you were the first person to have some problems with this.
I'm pretty impressed that you checked the polices out before move in as I went over my network quota the first day of freshman year without realizing what I was doing (it was only 1GB/week back then).
I've been using CMU's network for four years and have not felt that my private data is being exposed to the university.
Most networking folks I've dealt with on campus are too busy trying to keep everything up and running to bother with watching your email go through the network.
Just keep up your normal safe browsing habits and keep in mind the use policies and I don't think you'll have a problem with the network.
Good luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237527</id>
	<title>Grow up and understand the situation!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244292900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why do you think the college has done this?  To deal with arrogant students who think they own the network and do whatever they please.  With RIAA and other copyright police out there, they have to control the law breakers (that's exactly what they are) just to stay open, provide an education for its students -- and it does hurt everyone in the process.  Blame the irresponsible idiots, not the college.  If you are going to the college, you comply with their rules.  Period.  Don't like it?  Don't go.  Worried about your "privacy" online (what is it really that you do not want them to know about????  I've heard such weak excuses from too many others to be fooled by your argument.) then don't do those activities online while on the campus network.  Grow up and accept that you are not master of everything and everyone.  BTW, if you do try to get around this and get discovered, what will the college do?  You might be out on your ear and whoever (probably mommy and daddy) paid your tuition will be out a good deal of money.  Such a disciplinary action could also follow you throughout your life and affect your ability to get a responsible job.  Yeah, go ahead and try to get around it and ignore the consequences until they happen and then gripe about that...  Look at this as a chance to act like a responsible adult - it might actually teach you something you can use in later life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do you think the college has done this ?
To deal with arrogant students who think they own the network and do whatever they please .
With RIAA and other copyright police out there , they have to control the law breakers ( that 's exactly what they are ) just to stay open , provide an education for its students -- and it does hurt everyone in the process .
Blame the irresponsible idiots , not the college .
If you are going to the college , you comply with their rules .
Period. Do n't like it ?
Do n't go .
Worried about your " privacy " online ( what is it really that you do not want them to know about ? ? ? ?
I 've heard such weak excuses from too many others to be fooled by your argument .
) then do n't do those activities online while on the campus network .
Grow up and accept that you are not master of everything and everyone .
BTW , if you do try to get around this and get discovered , what will the college do ?
You might be out on your ear and whoever ( probably mommy and daddy ) paid your tuition will be out a good deal of money .
Such a disciplinary action could also follow you throughout your life and affect your ability to get a responsible job .
Yeah , go ahead and try to get around it and ignore the consequences until they happen and then gripe about that... Look at this as a chance to act like a responsible adult - it might actually teach you something you can use in later life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do you think the college has done this?
To deal with arrogant students who think they own the network and do whatever they please.
With RIAA and other copyright police out there, they have to control the law breakers (that's exactly what they are) just to stay open, provide an education for its students -- and it does hurt everyone in the process.
Blame the irresponsible idiots, not the college.
If you are going to the college, you comply with their rules.
Period.  Don't like it?
Don't go.
Worried about your "privacy" online (what is it really that you do not want them to know about????
I've heard such weak excuses from too many others to be fooled by your argument.
) then don't do those activities online while on the campus network.
Grow up and accept that you are not master of everything and everyone.
BTW, if you do try to get around this and get discovered, what will the college do?
You might be out on your ear and whoever (probably mommy and daddy) paid your tuition will be out a good deal of money.
Such a disciplinary action could also follow you throughout your life and affect your ability to get a responsible job.
Yeah, go ahead and try to get around it and ignore the consequences until they happen and then gripe about that...  Look at this as a chance to act like a responsible adult - it might actually teach you something you can use in later life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235473</id>
	<title>common, not good</title>
	<author>Goldsmith</author>
	<datestamp>1244319840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a popular new trend in university network "security."  It will be hard to find a school which is not at least considering this.</p><p>I have been at a university (UC Irvine) where a system like this (Cisco Clean Access) was put into effect by the housing department despite people in the computer science department and central computing services pointing out that the aging network infrastructure could not support it.  When the network went down immediately after activation, they did not admit any mistake and blamed the outage on malicious users.  Students who were found using or advertising workarounds (using a virtual machine, user agent spoofing) were disconnected from the network and threatened with criminal lawsuits.  Good times were had by all.</p><p>My suggestions are:<br>-live off campus, no matter what school you're at (it took UCI 3 months to go from first suggesting such a system to ruining their network)<br>-when you need to use the internet, get a connection through a research lab, not a student lab or general network (if research labs have to have this system, leave the school, all the good faculty have already left)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a popular new trend in university network " security .
" It will be hard to find a school which is not at least considering this.I have been at a university ( UC Irvine ) where a system like this ( Cisco Clean Access ) was put into effect by the housing department despite people in the computer science department and central computing services pointing out that the aging network infrastructure could not support it .
When the network went down immediately after activation , they did not admit any mistake and blamed the outage on malicious users .
Students who were found using or advertising workarounds ( using a virtual machine , user agent spoofing ) were disconnected from the network and threatened with criminal lawsuits .
Good times were had by all.My suggestions are : -live off campus , no matter what school you 're at ( it took UCI 3 months to go from first suggesting such a system to ruining their network ) -when you need to use the internet , get a connection through a research lab , not a student lab or general network ( if research labs have to have this system , leave the school , all the good faculty have already left )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a popular new trend in university network "security.
"  It will be hard to find a school which is not at least considering this.I have been at a university (UC Irvine) where a system like this (Cisco Clean Access) was put into effect by the housing department despite people in the computer science department and central computing services pointing out that the aging network infrastructure could not support it.
When the network went down immediately after activation, they did not admit any mistake and blamed the outage on malicious users.
Students who were found using or advertising workarounds (using a virtual machine, user agent spoofing) were disconnected from the network and threatened with criminal lawsuits.
Good times were had by all.My suggestions are:-live off campus, no matter what school you're at (it took UCI 3 months to go from first suggesting such a system to ruining their network)-when you need to use the internet, get a connection through a research lab, not a student lab or general network (if research labs have to have this system, leave the school, all the good faculty have already left)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28251261</id>
	<title>From the other side</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244477220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work at the helpdesk for a small college (1200 students) in NE Ohio. We use Cisco NAC to manage our clients. Though the program does check your computer to make sure that it has windows updates and updated antivirus. There is no way that we can log your keys or steal your passwords, and the same goes for others on our network. We lock everything (ping, RDP, \\$computername$\c$) at the switch level, so nobody can access your computer on the dorm or wireless vlans.</p><p>I cant speak for CMU, but I can only assume that they have this system in place to keep viruses from spreading, like mentioned before, for the first 2 weeks of the semester all we see here are kids who go home, download Xmen and 26 trojans, and cant figure out why their 8 year old IBM R40 (P4 and 256 RAM) that their dad jacked from his office (you can tell because it still has the domain login screen and a security tag), and we want to keep them from spreading to your (or my) machine.</p><p>It sucks, we realize that, but its all really for your protection. I would actually be wary of a network that allows anyone who wants to connect to your network, because every hill-rod yokel in town will jank your bandwith and infect everyone otherwise.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work at the helpdesk for a small college ( 1200 students ) in NE Ohio .
We use Cisco NAC to manage our clients .
Though the program does check your computer to make sure that it has windows updates and updated antivirus .
There is no way that we can log your keys or steal your passwords , and the same goes for others on our network .
We lock everything ( ping , RDP , \ \ $ computername $ \ c $ ) at the switch level , so nobody can access your computer on the dorm or wireless vlans.I cant speak for CMU , but I can only assume that they have this system in place to keep viruses from spreading , like mentioned before , for the first 2 weeks of the semester all we see here are kids who go home , download Xmen and 26 trojans , and cant figure out why their 8 year old IBM R40 ( P4 and 256 RAM ) that their dad jacked from his office ( you can tell because it still has the domain login screen and a security tag ) , and we want to keep them from spreading to your ( or my ) machine.It sucks , we realize that , but its all really for your protection .
I would actually be wary of a network that allows anyone who wants to connect to your network , because every hill-rod yokel in town will jank your bandwith and infect everyone otherwise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work at the helpdesk for a small college (1200 students) in NE Ohio.
We use Cisco NAC to manage our clients.
Though the program does check your computer to make sure that it has windows updates and updated antivirus.
There is no way that we can log your keys or steal your passwords, and the same goes for others on our network.
We lock everything (ping, RDP, \\$computername$\c$) at the switch level, so nobody can access your computer on the dorm or wireless vlans.I cant speak for CMU, but I can only assume that they have this system in place to keep viruses from spreading, like mentioned before, for the first 2 weeks of the semester all we see here are kids who go home, download Xmen and 26 trojans, and cant figure out why their 8 year old IBM R40 (P4 and 256 RAM) that their dad jacked from his office (you can tell because it still has the domain login screen and a security tag), and we want to keep them from spreading to your (or my) machine.It sucks, we realize that, but its all really for your protection.
I would actually be wary of a network that allows anyone who wants to connect to your network, because every hill-rod yokel in town will jank your bandwith and infect everyone otherwise.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239667</id>
	<title>Windows Health Policy</title>
	<author>TheCabal</author>
	<datestamp>1244405520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hmpf. Looks like someone got a hold of Windows2008.</p><p>OK, it's like this: Win2k8 has a nice little Network Policy and Access services that is basically Network Admission control. One of the ways it can be configured is to have an agent on the client's machine verify that that the client is configured according to policy: Automatic updates, firewall, antivirus current, etc... the client is then issued a health certificate and the switch is configured to place you in the normal vlan rather than a quarantine vlan. they may be running an isolation policy further upstream so that only healthy computers can talk to their servers. There's not that many NAP agents out there, and I doubt they've written a custom one.</p><p>Overall it's not a bad thing, but some people want to keep the aluminum foil industry in business... So what can you do? Well, likely they have a process for handling non-NAP-capable computers. Or you can run a guest XP OS in VMware, Xen, KVM or what have you, and see if you can run it in NAT mode so the same MAC and IP always appears as the source...</p><p>Or you can just not go visiting those websites that make you worried about someone finding out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmpf .
Looks like someone got a hold of Windows2008.OK , it 's like this : Win2k8 has a nice little Network Policy and Access services that is basically Network Admission control .
One of the ways it can be configured is to have an agent on the client 's machine verify that that the client is configured according to policy : Automatic updates , firewall , antivirus current , etc... the client is then issued a health certificate and the switch is configured to place you in the normal vlan rather than a quarantine vlan .
they may be running an isolation policy further upstream so that only healthy computers can talk to their servers .
There 's not that many NAP agents out there , and I doubt they 've written a custom one.Overall it 's not a bad thing , but some people want to keep the aluminum foil industry in business... So what can you do ?
Well , likely they have a process for handling non-NAP-capable computers .
Or you can run a guest XP OS in VMware , Xen , KVM or what have you , and see if you can run it in NAT mode so the same MAC and IP always appears as the source...Or you can just not go visiting those websites that make you worried about someone finding out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmpf.
Looks like someone got a hold of Windows2008.OK, it's like this: Win2k8 has a nice little Network Policy and Access services that is basically Network Admission control.
One of the ways it can be configured is to have an agent on the client's machine verify that that the client is configured according to policy: Automatic updates, firewall, antivirus current, etc... the client is then issued a health certificate and the switch is configured to place you in the normal vlan rather than a quarantine vlan.
they may be running an isolation policy further upstream so that only healthy computers can talk to their servers.
There's not that many NAP agents out there, and I doubt they've written a custom one.Overall it's not a bad thing, but some people want to keep the aluminum foil industry in business... So what can you do?
Well, likely they have a process for handling non-NAP-capable computers.
Or you can run a guest XP OS in VMware, Xen, KVM or what have you, and see if you can run it in NAT mode so the same MAC and IP always appears as the source...Or you can just not go visiting those websites that make you worried about someone finding out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28282651</id>
	<title>Do your research</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244660820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The CSA does a registry scan for service packs, AV definitions,and your machine's MAC addresses, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't even install anything, it runs in memory one time without making any registry modifications. (We actually recommend that you delete the application beyond the first run, because it's generated by the server with a timestamp and won't work at all 5 minutes after it's generated.<br>The CSA doesn't look at your hard drive other than the registry, and our network monitoring only looks at quantity of data, not the data itself. A review was made at one point whether to inspect headers to eliminate less than legit torrenting, but the lawyers recommended that we collect absolutely zero data on traffic type as to maintain a "safe harbor" network environment. (Essentially if the RIAA comes knocking, it's your problem, not ours, as long as we don't know what you were doing.)</p><p>We honestly don't care what you do with our network as long as you're not sending spam or viruses to other students.</p><p>For other info, call the help desk or visit us in person. We're more than willing to discuss network policy and or bitch about what we're given to work with infrastructure wise.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The CSA does a registry scan for service packs , AV definitions,and your machine 's MAC addresses , nothing more , nothing less .
It does n't even install anything , it runs in memory one time without making any registry modifications .
( We actually recommend that you delete the application beyond the first run , because it 's generated by the server with a timestamp and wo n't work at all 5 minutes after it 's generated.The CSA does n't look at your hard drive other than the registry , and our network monitoring only looks at quantity of data , not the data itself .
A review was made at one point whether to inspect headers to eliminate less than legit torrenting , but the lawyers recommended that we collect absolutely zero data on traffic type as to maintain a " safe harbor " network environment .
( Essentially if the RIAA comes knocking , it 's your problem , not ours , as long as we do n't know what you were doing .
) We honestly do n't care what you do with our network as long as you 're not sending spam or viruses to other students.For other info , call the help desk or visit us in person .
We 're more than willing to discuss network policy and or bitch about what we 're given to work with infrastructure wise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The CSA does a registry scan for service packs, AV definitions,and your machine's MAC addresses, nothing more, nothing less.
It doesn't even install anything, it runs in memory one time without making any registry modifications.
(We actually recommend that you delete the application beyond the first run, because it's generated by the server with a timestamp and won't work at all 5 minutes after it's generated.The CSA doesn't look at your hard drive other than the registry, and our network monitoring only looks at quantity of data, not the data itself.
A review was made at one point whether to inspect headers to eliminate less than legit torrenting, but the lawyers recommended that we collect absolutely zero data on traffic type as to maintain a "safe harbor" network environment.
(Essentially if the RIAA comes knocking, it's your problem, not ours, as long as we don't know what you were doing.
)We honestly don't care what you do with our network as long as you're not sending spam or viruses to other students.For other info, call the help desk or visit us in person.
We're more than willing to discuss network policy and or bitch about what we're given to work with infrastructure wise.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235911</id>
	<title>Not a big deal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244279280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know at Stanford you don't have to run the program if you use linux.  I dual boot, and just registered under linux.<br>I bet it's similar software, and it's not a huge deal.<br>And if they have a legit CS program (which I assume CMU does), you need linux on your computer...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know at Stanford you do n't have to run the program if you use linux .
I dual boot , and just registered under linux.I bet it 's similar software , and it 's not a huge deal.And if they have a legit CS program ( which I assume CMU does ) , you need linux on your computer.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know at Stanford you don't have to run the program if you use linux.
I dual boot, and just registered under linux.I bet it's similar software, and it's not a huge deal.And if they have a legit CS program (which I assume CMU does), you need linux on your computer...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235539</id>
	<title>Use a PS3 or BeagleBoard</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244320260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Screw them up - show up with your "computer" - a Sony PS3 with Linux on it, or a BeagleBoard running Ubuntu. Say "OK, here's my computer, install your stuff."</p><p>I would find it interesting to hear how they deal with That Which Is Neither Windows Nor X86.</p><p>For portable use, get something like a Nokia 810 and Bluetooth keyboard. Again, That Which Is Neither Windows Nor X86.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Screw them up - show up with your " computer " - a Sony PS3 with Linux on it , or a BeagleBoard running Ubuntu .
Say " OK , here 's my computer , install your stuff .
" I would find it interesting to hear how they deal with That Which Is Neither Windows Nor X86.For portable use , get something like a Nokia 810 and Bluetooth keyboard .
Again , That Which Is Neither Windows Nor X86 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Screw them up - show up with your "computer" - a Sony PS3 with Linux on it, or a BeagleBoard running Ubuntu.
Say "OK, here's my computer, install your stuff.
"I would find it interesting to hear how they deal with That Which Is Neither Windows Nor X86.For portable use, get something like a Nokia 810 and Bluetooth keyboard.
Again, That Which Is Neither Windows Nor X86.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235409</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>Tacvek</author>
	<datestamp>1244319540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mine does not even require antivirus software, although they deliberately design the system into tricking students into installing it, and some other crap. However, if you machine is rooted, and begins disrupting the network, they reserve the right to ban your computer from the network.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mine does not even require antivirus software , although they deliberately design the system into tricking students into installing it , and some other crap .
However , if you machine is rooted , and begins disrupting the network , they reserve the right to ban your computer from the network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mine does not even require antivirus software, although they deliberately design the system into tricking students into installing it, and some other crap.
However, if you machine is rooted, and begins disrupting the network, they reserve the right to ban your computer from the network.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235937</id>
	<title>Probably Not Required</title>
	<author>logicnazi</author>
	<datestamp>1244279520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In my experience virtually every college has some AntiVirus/Security policy that they <i>SAY</i> is necessary to connect to the network so the people who have no clue install it but it's rarely actually required.  Usually you can just download the package (or even not) and just click past all the crap about it and connect anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my experience virtually every college has some AntiVirus/Security policy that they SAY is necessary to connect to the network so the people who have no clue install it but it 's rarely actually required .
Usually you can just download the package ( or even not ) and just click past all the crap about it and connect anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my experience virtually every college has some AntiVirus/Security policy that they SAY is necessary to connect to the network so the people who have no clue install it but it's rarely actually required.
Usually you can just download the package (or even not) and just click past all the crap about it and connect anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28250877</id>
	<title>Baaaaaaad. Shockingly bad.</title>
	<author>TheMCP</author>
	<datestamp>1244475240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One of my previous jobs was director of software systems for a university.</p><p>The policy that DML describes is unwarranted and irresponsible in the extreme. If any of my people had proposed it to me, I would have forbidden it and would most likely have fired them for incompetence. The idea is shocking. To force students to install essentially unknown software provided to them by the university? Horrible.</p><p>If I were a student there and installed their "security" software and anything went wrong with my computer, I would likely talk to a lawyer about suing the university for damages; after all, if their security software caused the problem it's their fault, and if their security software failed to prevent the problem then I could allege that they fraudulently gained access to my computer by claiming their software would secure my computer, and if the problem is indeterminate I could blame it on their indeterminate software. So, by demanding I install the stuff, the college is creating a huge liability for themselves.</p><p>Moreover, Central Michigan University is a *public* university, so the idea of them forcing students to install software on their laptops to use the network raises questions of government violation of privacy.</p><p>A more realistic practice would be to have a policy stating to students that they are expected to maintain their computer free of viruses, malware, or unauthorized external access, and that in doing so they should use such security software as is normally necessary and appropriate for their operating system. Then let the student maintain their own system, and if you find it's being a problem, kick them off the network. Anyway, the student network should be isolated from the administration network in the first place, so if a student's computer is misbehaving, it shouldn't be able to cause problems for the university beyond that it would annoy other students.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One of my previous jobs was director of software systems for a university.The policy that DML describes is unwarranted and irresponsible in the extreme .
If any of my people had proposed it to me , I would have forbidden it and would most likely have fired them for incompetence .
The idea is shocking .
To force students to install essentially unknown software provided to them by the university ?
Horrible.If I were a student there and installed their " security " software and anything went wrong with my computer , I would likely talk to a lawyer about suing the university for damages ; after all , if their security software caused the problem it 's their fault , and if their security software failed to prevent the problem then I could allege that they fraudulently gained access to my computer by claiming their software would secure my computer , and if the problem is indeterminate I could blame it on their indeterminate software .
So , by demanding I install the stuff , the college is creating a huge liability for themselves.Moreover , Central Michigan University is a * public * university , so the idea of them forcing students to install software on their laptops to use the network raises questions of government violation of privacy.A more realistic practice would be to have a policy stating to students that they are expected to maintain their computer free of viruses , malware , or unauthorized external access , and that in doing so they should use such security software as is normally necessary and appropriate for their operating system .
Then let the student maintain their own system , and if you find it 's being a problem , kick them off the network .
Anyway , the student network should be isolated from the administration network in the first place , so if a student 's computer is misbehaving , it should n't be able to cause problems for the university beyond that it would annoy other students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of my previous jobs was director of software systems for a university.The policy that DML describes is unwarranted and irresponsible in the extreme.
If any of my people had proposed it to me, I would have forbidden it and would most likely have fired them for incompetence.
The idea is shocking.
To force students to install essentially unknown software provided to them by the university?
Horrible.If I were a student there and installed their "security" software and anything went wrong with my computer, I would likely talk to a lawyer about suing the university for damages; after all, if their security software caused the problem it's their fault, and if their security software failed to prevent the problem then I could allege that they fraudulently gained access to my computer by claiming their software would secure my computer, and if the problem is indeterminate I could blame it on their indeterminate software.
So, by demanding I install the stuff, the college is creating a huge liability for themselves.Moreover, Central Michigan University is a *public* university, so the idea of them forcing students to install software on their laptops to use the network raises questions of government violation of privacy.A more realistic practice would be to have a policy stating to students that they are expected to maintain their computer free of viruses, malware, or unauthorized external access, and that in doing so they should use such security software as is normally necessary and appropriate for their operating system.
Then let the student maintain their own system, and if you find it's being a problem, kick them off the network.
Anyway, the student network should be isolated from the administration network in the first place, so if a student's computer is misbehaving, it shouldn't be able to cause problems for the university beyond that it would annoy other students.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236021</id>
	<title>Free Wireless Downtown</title>
	<author>Sopor42</author>
	<datestamp>1244280000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Come down to Mountain Town Station downtown. Home-made beer, and free wireless!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Come down to Mountain Town Station downtown .
Home-made beer , and free wireless !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come down to Mountain Town Station downtown.
Home-made beer, and free wireless!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238783</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244305620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, you AND your institution sound like douchebags.  I work at my school's helpdesk and I'm glad I attended a school with a reasonable policy.  We have a CD that you can run that will perform these actions and we encourage people to use it, but it's certainly not required nor should it be required.</p><p>I'll give you one thing though, you guys have got the "big brothers knows best" thing down to a science.  Way to stifle your students and brainwash them into never thinking for themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , you AND your institution sound like douchebags .
I work at my school 's helpdesk and I 'm glad I attended a school with a reasonable policy .
We have a CD that you can run that will perform these actions and we encourage people to use it , but it 's certainly not required nor should it be required.I 'll give you one thing though , you guys have got the " big brothers knows best " thing down to a science .
Way to stifle your students and brainwash them into never thinking for themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, you AND your institution sound like douchebags.
I work at my school's helpdesk and I'm glad I attended a school with a reasonable policy.
We have a CD that you can run that will perform these actions and we encourage people to use it, but it's certainly not required nor should it be required.I'll give you one thing though, you guys have got the "big brothers knows best" thing down to a science.
Way to stifle your students and brainwash them into never thinking for themselves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239259</id>
	<title>At least from what is wirtten on the download page</title>
	<author>drolli</author>
	<datestamp>1244312220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The program takes three very reasonable measures, namely making sure a virusscanner is run, making sure windows update is run and disabling bridging (we can discuss about the last one). If there is no small print which i did not look for th9is does include "scan your hard drive". Having been an adminitrator in an university network which was connected with 100M (back then) to the switch where also the dormitories where conected to tith 100M, and running a logging firewall on the server, i can tell you that a lot of machines attacking us where from dormitories, i suppose trojan-infected.</p><p>I my opinion providing network services in dormitories should be done by a provider outside university. Who really needs it can then use a VPN.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The program takes three very reasonable measures , namely making sure a virusscanner is run , making sure windows update is run and disabling bridging ( we can discuss about the last one ) .
If there is no small print which i did not look for th9is does include " scan your hard drive " .
Having been an adminitrator in an university network which was connected with 100M ( back then ) to the switch where also the dormitories where conected to tith 100M , and running a logging firewall on the server , i can tell you that a lot of machines attacking us where from dormitories , i suppose trojan-infected.I my opinion providing network services in dormitories should be done by a provider outside university .
Who really needs it can then use a VPN .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The program takes three very reasonable measures, namely making sure a virusscanner is run, making sure windows update is run and disabling bridging (we can discuss about the last one).
If there is no small print which i did not look for th9is does include "scan your hard drive".
Having been an adminitrator in an university network which was connected with 100M (back then) to the switch where also the dormitories where conected to tith 100M, and running a logging firewall on the server, i can tell you that a lot of machines attacking us where from dormitories, i suppose trojan-infected.I my opinion providing network services in dormitories should be done by a provider outside university.
Who really needs it can then use a VPN.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235031</id>
	<title>You could always try...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Try to find the method by which you're granted access.
<br> <br>If it's just by MAC address, try to spoof a whitelisted one. I believe a number of Universities allow residents to have their game-systems or other electronics granted access upon request; if you have one, or can make one up, it's an option.
<br> <br>Alternatively you could attempt to spoof the communication that says you're clean, or rig up their client to simply say that you are.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Try to find the method by which you 're granted access .
If it 's just by MAC address , try to spoof a whitelisted one .
I believe a number of Universities allow residents to have their game-systems or other electronics granted access upon request ; if you have one , or can make one up , it 's an option .
Alternatively you could attempt to spoof the communication that says you 're clean , or rig up their client to simply say that you are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try to find the method by which you're granted access.
If it's just by MAC address, try to spoof a whitelisted one.
I believe a number of Universities allow residents to have their game-systems or other electronics granted access upon request; if you have one, or can make one up, it's an option.
Alternatively you could attempt to spoof the communication that says you're clean, or rig up their client to simply say that you are.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236915</id>
	<title>Those clients are worthless</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244286840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My university started requiring people to have these things installed to allow a connection too.</p><p>The servers in my local IT department could no longer connect.  The robots we had for our senior engineering projects could no longer connect (we had to buy/install our own wireless routers because of it).  And, since many of the student's who HAD the client installed could still not connect (although they could previously), we in local IT decided to call central IT about it roughly every 5 minutes or so and tell them that, yes we had yet another student who could not connect with their stupid client.</p><p>The policy lasted about 3 days.  One year later, we still get people walking up and saying they lost their connection, and we find that the now un-required client is still installed on their machines and intermittently breaking their connection.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My university started requiring people to have these things installed to allow a connection too.The servers in my local IT department could no longer connect .
The robots we had for our senior engineering projects could no longer connect ( we had to buy/install our own wireless routers because of it ) .
And , since many of the student 's who HAD the client installed could still not connect ( although they could previously ) , we in local IT decided to call central IT about it roughly every 5 minutes or so and tell them that , yes we had yet another student who could not connect with their stupid client.The policy lasted about 3 days .
One year later , we still get people walking up and saying they lost their connection , and we find that the now un-required client is still installed on their machines and intermittently breaking their connection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My university started requiring people to have these things installed to allow a connection too.The servers in my local IT department could no longer connect.
The robots we had for our senior engineering projects could no longer connect (we had to buy/install our own wireless routers because of it).
And, since many of the student's who HAD the client installed could still not connect (although they could previously), we in local IT decided to call central IT about it roughly every 5 minutes or so and tell them that, yes we had yet another student who could not connect with their stupid client.The policy lasted about 3 days.
One year later, we still get people walking up and saying they lost their connection, and we find that the now un-required client is still installed on their machines and intermittently breaking their connection.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235719</id>
	<title>Hint</title>
	<author>betterunixthanunix</author>
	<datestamp>1244321340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hey, here's an idea you might not have thought of:  ban machines that are causing problems.  If that is a problem for the person whose machine gets banned, let them bring their machine to help desk, so you can give them a slap on the wrists.  Why should anyone else have to deal with your nonsense?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , here 's an idea you might not have thought of : ban machines that are causing problems .
If that is a problem for the person whose machine gets banned , let them bring their machine to help desk , so you can give them a slap on the wrists .
Why should anyone else have to deal with your nonsense ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, here's an idea you might not have thought of:  ban machines that are causing problems.
If that is a problem for the person whose machine gets banned, let them bring their machine to help desk, so you can give them a slap on the wrists.
Why should anyone else have to deal with your nonsense?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235173</id>
	<title>CSA Work=around</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244318340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At my school they also wanted us to use CSA. I realized (after some testing) that the computer that checks to make sure your computer is CSA-compliant is actually the DNS server (at least in my case). Solution? Use OpenDNS and you never have to worry about installing CSA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At my school they also wanted us to use CSA .
I realized ( after some testing ) that the computer that checks to make sure your computer is CSA-compliant is actually the DNS server ( at least in my case ) .
Solution ? Use OpenDNS and you never have to worry about installing CSA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At my school they also wanted us to use CSA.
I realized (after some testing) that the computer that checks to make sure your computer is CSA-compliant is actually the DNS server (at least in my case).
Solution? Use OpenDNS and you never have to worry about installing CSA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235613</id>
	<title>It's called 'Academic Freedom' and it bitchslaps.</title>
	<author>Behrooz</author>
	<datestamp>1244320680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMU</i></p><p>Are you an OIT facility?  No?  Then don't worry about that.  If they wanted explicit access to your machine, it'd have been phrased that way.  They're talking about lab machines and servers, i.e. hardware that is owned by the university, likely in order to deal with the problems associated with "Well, that jackass is running a porn site off of his university-provided FTP space.  We kinda have to delete that." or clueless people who go over their e-mail quota.</p><p>This is academia, not the corporate world.  Try looking up the academic freedom policies your university enforces-- odds are good anyone even trying to monitor your individual network use *even just over the campus network* without prior notice or an outside legal complaint is going to get shit-canned.  If any of the policies seriously conflict with that ideal, take it up with the dean of students and they'll probably go beat people up for you.</p><p>Hell, if you want confirmation of any of that, call the helpdesk and ask them.  If something is particularly annoying for you and you sound like you know what you're doing and won't cause any problems, they'll probably tell you exactly how to get around it just so they can get you off their phone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMUAre you an OIT facility ?
No ? Then do n't worry about that .
If they wanted explicit access to your machine , it 'd have been phrased that way .
They 're talking about lab machines and servers , i.e .
hardware that is owned by the university , likely in order to deal with the problems associated with " Well , that jackass is running a porn site off of his university-provided FTP space .
We kinda have to delete that .
" or clueless people who go over their e-mail quota.This is academia , not the corporate world .
Try looking up the academic freedom policies your university enforces-- odds are good anyone even trying to monitor your individual network use * even just over the campus network * without prior notice or an outside legal complaint is going to get shit-canned .
If any of the policies seriously conflict with that ideal , take it up with the dean of students and they 'll probably go beat people up for you.Hell , if you want confirmation of any of that , call the helpdesk and ask them .
If something is particularly annoying for you and you sound like you know what you 're doing and wo n't cause any problems , they 'll probably tell you exactly how to get around it just so they can get you off their phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMUAre you an OIT facility?
No?  Then don't worry about that.
If they wanted explicit access to your machine, it'd have been phrased that way.
They're talking about lab machines and servers, i.e.
hardware that is owned by the university, likely in order to deal with the problems associated with "Well, that jackass is running a porn site off of his university-provided FTP space.
We kinda have to delete that.
" or clueless people who go over their e-mail quota.This is academia, not the corporate world.
Try looking up the academic freedom policies your university enforces-- odds are good anyone even trying to monitor your individual network use *even just over the campus network* without prior notice or an outside legal complaint is going to get shit-canned.
If any of the policies seriously conflict with that ideal, take it up with the dean of students and they'll probably go beat people up for you.Hell, if you want confirmation of any of that, call the helpdesk and ask them.
If something is particularly annoying for you and you sound like you know what you're doing and won't cause any problems, they'll probably tell you exactly how to get around it just so they can get you off their phone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235005</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237391</id>
	<title>Crazy</title>
	<author>teraquendya</author>
	<datestamp>1244291520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am sorry that you have to put up with regulations such as those. At my college, all we have to do is register our MAC with our ID (done on first login) and then you are good. And so far they have not been blocking P2P, but they have been discussing it. So far it is still possible, but who knows what the future holds.
<br> <br>
I can only suggest that you consider to either accept the rules or go to a different University.
<br> <br>
Best of luck.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am sorry that you have to put up with regulations such as those .
At my college , all we have to do is register our MAC with our ID ( done on first login ) and then you are good .
And so far they have not been blocking P2P , but they have been discussing it .
So far it is still possible , but who knows what the future holds .
I can only suggest that you consider to either accept the rules or go to a different University .
Best of luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am sorry that you have to put up with regulations such as those.
At my college, all we have to do is register our MAC with our ID (done on first login) and then you are good.
And so far they have not been blocking P2P, but they have been discussing it.
So far it is still possible, but who knows what the future holds.
I can only suggest that you consider to either accept the rules or go to a different University.
Best of luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239411</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>spasm</author>
	<datestamp>1244314800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't forget to write a very polite letter to them explaining why you're not accepting their offer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget to write a very polite letter to them explaining why you 're not accepting their offer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget to write a very polite letter to them explaining why you're not accepting their offer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236751</id>
	<title>use a school only PC</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244285460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>use a laptop just for your school stuff, never put anything personal on it. if you need a personal computer, get a new netbook with a 3G cell card in it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>use a laptop just for your school stuff , never put anything personal on it .
if you need a personal computer , get a new netbook with a 3G cell card in it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>use a laptop just for your school stuff, never put anything personal on it.
if you need a personal computer, get a new netbook with a 3G cell card in it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235751</id>
	<title>set up the machine with the spyware as a router</title>
	<author>lkcl</author>
	<datestamp>1244321580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>try this:</p><p>* install two network cards (two wireless, one wired one wireless, whatever)</p><p>* connect one of them to the university network</p><p>* connect your personal computer(s) to the other</p><p>* bridge the two together</p><p>* install a VPN on a system out on the Internet (you can rent XEN Virtual Machines from e.g. bluelinux.co.uk for &#194;&pound;15 per month)</p><p>* install a VPN client on your personal computer</p><p>* set up an HTTP Proxy and whatever other proxies you want in the system "out there"</p><p>* configure your personal machine(s) to use the proxies.</p><p>all that the university will see is some encrypted traffic.</p><p>if they get arsey about this, tell them that you demand extra credits on a research project involving computer privacy, for ingenuity and initiative.</p><p>if you want to wind them up, tell them that you're doing research into reactions of universities when students take initiative to enforce their right to privacy.  get out a notebook whilst saying this and write down any responses made...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>try this : * install two network cards ( two wireless , one wired one wireless , whatever ) * connect one of them to the university network * connect your personal computer ( s ) to the other * bridge the two together * install a VPN on a system out on the Internet ( you can rent XEN Virtual Machines from e.g .
bluelinux.co.uk for     15 per month ) * install a VPN client on your personal computer * set up an HTTP Proxy and whatever other proxies you want in the system " out there " * configure your personal machine ( s ) to use the proxies.all that the university will see is some encrypted traffic.if they get arsey about this , tell them that you demand extra credits on a research project involving computer privacy , for ingenuity and initiative.if you want to wind them up , tell them that you 're doing research into reactions of universities when students take initiative to enforce their right to privacy .
get out a notebook whilst saying this and write down any responses made.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>try this:* install two network cards (two wireless, one wired one wireless, whatever)* connect one of them to the university network* connect your personal computer(s) to the other* bridge the two together* install a VPN on a system out on the Internet (you can rent XEN Virtual Machines from e.g.
bluelinux.co.uk for Â£15 per month)* install a VPN client on your personal computer* set up an HTTP Proxy and whatever other proxies you want in the system "out there"* configure your personal machine(s) to use the proxies.all that the university will see is some encrypted traffic.if they get arsey about this, tell them that you demand extra credits on a research project involving computer privacy, for ingenuity and initiative.if you want to wind them up, tell them that you're doing research into reactions of universities when students take initiative to enforce their right to privacy.
get out a notebook whilst saying this and write down any responses made...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235039</id>
	<title>Ask the higher ups</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my experience, not all universities are this restrictive.  Many that do have these policies do not strictly enforce them (my school required that you do a virus scan on windows machines once per semester, but live cds let you get by by having a non-windows machine at scan time).  Most schools will have people at the freshman dorms helping new students get connected.  See if you can get in touch with the school's IT staff through these people (they are usually students), and ask the IT staff how to connect non-windows machines to the network.  With the popularity of online gaming consoles and non-windows operating systems, I'm sure there will be a procedure.<br>The other advantage of talking to the IT staff is that some schools hire students to do field work, answer phones, and staff NOCs (my first real job).  You never know what opportunities will open up (my school let me unofficially run boxes in the main machine room, with unrestricted access to I2 and the sprint and verizon uplinks).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my experience , not all universities are this restrictive .
Many that do have these policies do not strictly enforce them ( my school required that you do a virus scan on windows machines once per semester , but live cds let you get by by having a non-windows machine at scan time ) .
Most schools will have people at the freshman dorms helping new students get connected .
See if you can get in touch with the school 's IT staff through these people ( they are usually students ) , and ask the IT staff how to connect non-windows machines to the network .
With the popularity of online gaming consoles and non-windows operating systems , I 'm sure there will be a procedure.The other advantage of talking to the IT staff is that some schools hire students to do field work , answer phones , and staff NOCs ( my first real job ) .
You never know what opportunities will open up ( my school let me unofficially run boxes in the main machine room , with unrestricted access to I2 and the sprint and verizon uplinks ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my experience, not all universities are this restrictive.
Many that do have these policies do not strictly enforce them (my school required that you do a virus scan on windows machines once per semester, but live cds let you get by by having a non-windows machine at scan time).
Most schools will have people at the freshman dorms helping new students get connected.
See if you can get in touch with the school's IT staff through these people (they are usually students), and ask the IT staff how to connect non-windows machines to the network.
With the popularity of online gaming consoles and non-windows operating systems, I'm sure there will be a procedure.The other advantage of talking to the IT staff is that some schools hire students to do field work, answer phones, and staff NOCs (my first real job).
You never know what opportunities will open up (my school let me unofficially run boxes in the main machine room, with unrestricted access to I2 and the sprint and verizon uplinks).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235621</id>
	<title>Don't know how common it is...</title>
	<author>m1ss1ontomars2k4</author>
	<datestamp>1244320740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But if I recall correctly, Virginia Commonwealth University does the same thing. UC Berkeley doesn't require you to install anything, but their security scanning servers do scan your computer for all kinds of vulnerabilities to exploit. Really fills up your logs if you've set things up that way.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But if I recall correctly , Virginia Commonwealth University does the same thing .
UC Berkeley does n't require you to install anything , but their security scanning servers do scan your computer for all kinds of vulnerabilities to exploit .
Really fills up your logs if you 've set things up that way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But if I recall correctly, Virginia Commonwealth University does the same thing.
UC Berkeley doesn't require you to install anything, but their security scanning servers do scan your computer for all kinds of vulnerabilities to exploit.
Really fills up your logs if you've set things up that way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235371</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244319420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>My college doesn't require us to install anything to access the network. Of course that's mainly for two reasons:

1. If you're going to Harvey Mudd, you probably have mastered the basics and possibly several of the upper reaches of computer and internet security and those who haven't usually learn fast from their peers that do.

2. Honor Code. This is actually one of the basic tenets of Mudd, not just of computer usage, and it basically means "Use common sense and when that fails report yourself." It sounds crazy I know. You'd think it'd cause a breakdown of justice and total anarchy because no one would obey the rules which might very well happen on many larger campuses. But when you consider the kind of people that attend Mudd and its small size, it actually works darn well. Hell, it's worked for over 50 years and Mudd still turns out incredibly bright students either in spite of or because of the Honor Code depending on your view point. People actually do report themselves when they cause problems and there is a student run judiciary board for those who don't which runs quite efficiently. All in all, the policy causes less stress and anxiety for both the administration and the students than invasive strategies like the one described in the article.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My college does n't require us to install anything to access the network .
Of course that 's mainly for two reasons : 1 .
If you 're going to Harvey Mudd , you probably have mastered the basics and possibly several of the upper reaches of computer and internet security and those who have n't usually learn fast from their peers that do .
2. Honor Code .
This is actually one of the basic tenets of Mudd , not just of computer usage , and it basically means " Use common sense and when that fails report yourself .
" It sounds crazy I know .
You 'd think it 'd cause a breakdown of justice and total anarchy because no one would obey the rules which might very well happen on many larger campuses .
But when you consider the kind of people that attend Mudd and its small size , it actually works darn well .
Hell , it 's worked for over 50 years and Mudd still turns out incredibly bright students either in spite of or because of the Honor Code depending on your view point .
People actually do report themselves when they cause problems and there is a student run judiciary board for those who do n't which runs quite efficiently .
All in all , the policy causes less stress and anxiety for both the administration and the students than invasive strategies like the one described in the article .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My college doesn't require us to install anything to access the network.
Of course that's mainly for two reasons:

1.
If you're going to Harvey Mudd, you probably have mastered the basics and possibly several of the upper reaches of computer and internet security and those who haven't usually learn fast from their peers that do.
2. Honor Code.
This is actually one of the basic tenets of Mudd, not just of computer usage, and it basically means "Use common sense and when that fails report yourself.
" It sounds crazy I know.
You'd think it'd cause a breakdown of justice and total anarchy because no one would obey the rules which might very well happen on many larger campuses.
But when you consider the kind of people that attend Mudd and its small size, it actually works darn well.
Hell, it's worked for over 50 years and Mudd still turns out incredibly bright students either in spite of or because of the Honor Code depending on your view point.
People actually do report themselves when they cause problems and there is a student run judiciary board for those who don't which runs quite efficiently.
All in all, the policy causes less stress and anxiety for both the administration and the students than invasive strategies like the one described in the article.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235735</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>QOS was invented for a reason - try using it rather than requiring people to install crap on their machines they have no reason to trust.</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qos" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qos</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>QOS was invented for a reason - try using it rather than requiring people to install crap on their machines they have no reason to trust.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qos [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>QOS was invented for a reason - try using it rather than requiring people to install crap on their machines they have no reason to trust.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qos [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236315</id>
	<title>Re:It's no worse than being at work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244281860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What a pointless, condescending post.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What a pointless , condescending post .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a pointless, condescending post.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235605</id>
	<title>Or, uh, don't do anything illegal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244320620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're seriously complaining about a university trying to protect itself?  As with most conspiracy theories, you're overlooking the obvious to come up with your claims.  Which of these is more likely:<br>1. the university is so interested in your personal life that they dreamed up this Client Security Agent to spy on you.<br>2. the university is intersted in keeping the network safe and protecting themselves from legal risks of students performing illegal activities on their network, so they create this Client Security Agent to make sure none of the compters active on the network are engaged in illegal activitiy or are vulnerable to known attacks.</p><p>You're right.  It's probably 1.  Go get a mobile broadband card and surf on your own.  Productivity and ease of access to actual college material on the network be damned.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're seriously complaining about a university trying to protect itself ?
As with most conspiracy theories , you 're overlooking the obvious to come up with your claims .
Which of these is more likely : 1. the university is so interested in your personal life that they dreamed up this Client Security Agent to spy on you.2 .
the university is intersted in keeping the network safe and protecting themselves from legal risks of students performing illegal activities on their network , so they create this Client Security Agent to make sure none of the compters active on the network are engaged in illegal activitiy or are vulnerable to known attacks.You 're right .
It 's probably 1 .
Go get a mobile broadband card and surf on your own .
Productivity and ease of access to actual college material on the network be damned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're seriously complaining about a university trying to protect itself?
As with most conspiracy theories, you're overlooking the obvious to come up with your claims.
Which of these is more likely:1. the university is so interested in your personal life that they dreamed up this Client Security Agent to spy on you.2.
the university is intersted in keeping the network safe and protecting themselves from legal risks of students performing illegal activities on their network, so they create this Client Security Agent to make sure none of the compters active on the network are engaged in illegal activitiy or are vulnerable to known attacks.You're right.
It's probably 1.
Go get a mobile broadband card and surf on your own.
Productivity and ease of access to actual college material on the network be damned.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235697</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>nhytefall</author>
	<datestamp>1244321220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, no<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... not insane.  Probably, pretty damn smart of them.  Rationale?  Legal expense of having to deal with media company lawyers every time a college kid mistakenly believes that they can download whatever they want from the internet, and it's okay.  "Fair Use" and all that other bullshit that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.'ers have a tendency to spout.

Fact remains, the university's network is their network.  If you want access to it, you have to play by their rules.  End of story.

Oh, and before any of the less informed and more opinionated members decide to respond with more typical<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. nonsense, remember... despite the fact that "taxpayer" dollars do fund the institution, that does not give a student unlimited rights to whatever the fuck they want to.

Public university, private network.  Access to it, is subject to their needs from a security/legal/privacy aspect.

In short, OP... you are stuck with it.  Move along, move along.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , no ... not insane .
Probably , pretty damn smart of them .
Rationale ? Legal expense of having to deal with media company lawyers every time a college kid mistakenly believes that they can download whatever they want from the internet , and it 's okay .
" Fair Use " and all that other bullshit that / .
'ers have a tendency to spout .
Fact remains , the university 's network is their network .
If you want access to it , you have to play by their rules .
End of story .
Oh , and before any of the less informed and more opinionated members decide to respond with more typical / .
nonsense , remember... despite the fact that " taxpayer " dollars do fund the institution , that does not give a student unlimited rights to whatever the fuck they want to .
Public university , private network .
Access to it , is subject to their needs from a security/legal/privacy aspect .
In short , OP... you are stuck with it .
Move along , move along .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, no ... not insane.
Probably, pretty damn smart of them.
Rationale?  Legal expense of having to deal with media company lawyers every time a college kid mistakenly believes that they can download whatever they want from the internet, and it's okay.
"Fair Use" and all that other bullshit that /.
'ers have a tendency to spout.
Fact remains, the university's network is their network.
If you want access to it, you have to play by their rules.
End of story.
Oh, and before any of the less informed and more opinionated members decide to respond with more typical /.
nonsense, remember... despite the fact that "taxpayer" dollars do fund the institution, that does not give a student unlimited rights to whatever the fuck they want to.
Public university, private network.
Access to it, is subject to their needs from a security/legal/privacy aspect.
In short, OP... you are stuck with it.
Move along, move along.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28270417</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244579880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Way to do an advert troll on your college.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Way to do an advert troll on your college .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Way to do an advert troll on your college.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235371</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236597</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244284020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is the idiocy of IT people. Apparently, they don't understand that MAC addresses can be spoofed. Eventually a MAC address that is whitelisted will be found and game over. The whole point of this insanity is broken.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is the idiocy of IT people .
Apparently , they do n't understand that MAC addresses can be spoofed .
Eventually a MAC address that is whitelisted will be found and game over .
The whole point of this insanity is broken .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is the idiocy of IT people.
Apparently, they don't understand that MAC addresses can be spoofed.
Eventually a MAC address that is whitelisted will be found and game over.
The whole point of this insanity is broken.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239343</id>
	<title>Dorm networks are ISPs, not luxuries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244313900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I read over the comments from people who claim to work for the IT departments, and I can't help but think -- you just don't understand. When a student is -living- in a dorm, the internet connection in that dorm is an ISP, not a corporate network. You can set it up however you want and call it what you want, but that connection is their primary home Internet connection. That's what housing staff are telling students when they move in. That's what university staff are telling students when they pay their fees.</p><p>Beyond that, you are ethically abusing the monopoly that the school has on students, even if those students have entered that monopoly willingly.  Not every applicant had information available to them that told them they'd have to install a monitoring application on their personal-use computer. It isn't fair for a university to enact such invasive policies on students who really have no choice but to stay and complete their degree.</p><p>Your contracts with students and your use policies and such may allow you to require users to blindly install your application on their personal computer to use the ISP service they were advertised and sold.  There is no question in my mind that doing so is a consciously unfair policy that places no value on student satisfaction.</p><p>To students: the only time I've ever seen a reaction from a large organization doing ridiculous things like this was when I started seeking out potential customers and making them aware of the situation. Try it, respectfully with students asking what your college is like. "I've mostly enjoyed things, and I think I'll have an OK education by the time I leave, but I'm personally concerned about the requirements our IT department, and the fact that administration is OK with this."  Explain what you like about the school, but point out that the official school solutions to not wanting to install the app are: 1) don't use the network you were advertised, sold, and are paying for or 2) go to a different school.</p><p>As soon as someone in admissions hears a student decline an offer based on IT's policy, there will be more attention to the ridiculous situation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I read over the comments from people who claim to work for the IT departments , and I ca n't help but think -- you just do n't understand .
When a student is -living- in a dorm , the internet connection in that dorm is an ISP , not a corporate network .
You can set it up however you want and call it what you want , but that connection is their primary home Internet connection .
That 's what housing staff are telling students when they move in .
That 's what university staff are telling students when they pay their fees.Beyond that , you are ethically abusing the monopoly that the school has on students , even if those students have entered that monopoly willingly .
Not every applicant had information available to them that told them they 'd have to install a monitoring application on their personal-use computer .
It is n't fair for a university to enact such invasive policies on students who really have no choice but to stay and complete their degree.Your contracts with students and your use policies and such may allow you to require users to blindly install your application on their personal computer to use the ISP service they were advertised and sold .
There is no question in my mind that doing so is a consciously unfair policy that places no value on student satisfaction.To students : the only time I 've ever seen a reaction from a large organization doing ridiculous things like this was when I started seeking out potential customers and making them aware of the situation .
Try it , respectfully with students asking what your college is like .
" I 've mostly enjoyed things , and I think I 'll have an OK education by the time I leave , but I 'm personally concerned about the requirements our IT department , and the fact that administration is OK with this .
" Explain what you like about the school , but point out that the official school solutions to not wanting to install the app are : 1 ) do n't use the network you were advertised , sold , and are paying for or 2 ) go to a different school.As soon as someone in admissions hears a student decline an offer based on IT 's policy , there will be more attention to the ridiculous situation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read over the comments from people who claim to work for the IT departments, and I can't help but think -- you just don't understand.
When a student is -living- in a dorm, the internet connection in that dorm is an ISP, not a corporate network.
You can set it up however you want and call it what you want, but that connection is their primary home Internet connection.
That's what housing staff are telling students when they move in.
That's what university staff are telling students when they pay their fees.Beyond that, you are ethically abusing the monopoly that the school has on students, even if those students have entered that monopoly willingly.
Not every applicant had information available to them that told them they'd have to install a monitoring application on their personal-use computer.
It isn't fair for a university to enact such invasive policies on students who really have no choice but to stay and complete their degree.Your contracts with students and your use policies and such may allow you to require users to blindly install your application on their personal computer to use the ISP service they were advertised and sold.
There is no question in my mind that doing so is a consciously unfair policy that places no value on student satisfaction.To students: the only time I've ever seen a reaction from a large organization doing ridiculous things like this was when I started seeking out potential customers and making them aware of the situation.
Try it, respectfully with students asking what your college is like.
"I've mostly enjoyed things, and I think I'll have an OK education by the time I leave, but I'm personally concerned about the requirements our IT department, and the fact that administration is OK with this.
"  Explain what you like about the school, but point out that the official school solutions to not wanting to install the app are: 1) don't use the network you were advertised, sold, and are paying for or 2) go to a different school.As soon as someone in admissions hears a student decline an offer based on IT's policy, there will be more attention to the ridiculous situation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28244007</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>Johan Welin</author>
	<datestamp>1244369100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No one should not accept anything like this.
This is a pure invasion of privacy. No one has the right to know *anything* about your private thoughts (unless you opt-in). No one has the right to know, or judge, \_anything\_ of what you create or collect for your your artwork. And no-one has the right to make any statement reg. the judgement on who you communicate with. My guess is that a very few \%/\%/\%*n is related to terrorism (if so, close to 100\% of the population are considered terrorists..:\_) Or worse, file-sharers which \_really\_should hurt the community<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..

Yes (Who knows these days..)</htmltext>
<tokenext>No one should not accept anything like this .
This is a pure invasion of privacy .
No one has the right to know * anything * about your private thoughts ( unless you opt-in ) .
No one has the right to know , or judge , \ _anything \ _ of what you create or collect for your your artwork .
And no-one has the right to make any statement reg .
the judgement on who you communicate with .
My guess is that a very few \ % / \ % / \ % * n is related to terrorism ( if so , close to 100 \ % of the population are considered terrorists.. : \ _ ) Or worse , file-sharers which \ _really \ _should hurt the community . . Yes ( Who knows these days.. )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one should not accept anything like this.
This is a pure invasion of privacy.
No one has the right to know *anything* about your private thoughts (unless you opt-in).
No one has the right to know, or judge, \_anything\_ of what you create or collect for your your artwork.
And no-one has the right to make any statement reg.
the judgement on who you communicate with.
My guess is that a very few \%/\%/\%*n is related to terrorism (if so, close to 100\% of the population are considered terrorists..:\_) Or worse, file-sharers which \_really\_should hurt the community ..

Yes (Who knows these days..)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235681</id>
	<title>CSA bypass &amp; Proxy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Use CSA bypass, or hijack someone else's wifi and use https...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Use CSA bypass , or hijack someone else 's wifi and use https.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Use CSA bypass, or hijack someone else's wifi and use https...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236555</id>
	<title>That is crazy</title>
	<author>nsqaured</author>
	<datestamp>1244283600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had no idea that college networks would even try to enforce such a thing.

I attend Ohio University.  We do not have any silly requirements to use our network, we just have to agree to a network usage policy.  In such a policy we must agree to not share copyrighted material on the network.  Students who have violated this policy have had stiff fines imposed on them, sometimes a court case, and even disciplinary action by the school.  Personally, I think this is a great policy.

I know it should not be a basis for choosing a school, but I would not go to a school with a crazy rule like that.  The money the school spends on software and technical support for a program like that would be much better off spent on professors/researchers/administrators of computer networks that could pass their knowledge onto students.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had no idea that college networks would even try to enforce such a thing .
I attend Ohio University .
We do not have any silly requirements to use our network , we just have to agree to a network usage policy .
In such a policy we must agree to not share copyrighted material on the network .
Students who have violated this policy have had stiff fines imposed on them , sometimes a court case , and even disciplinary action by the school .
Personally , I think this is a great policy .
I know it should not be a basis for choosing a school , but I would not go to a school with a crazy rule like that .
The money the school spends on software and technical support for a program like that would be much better off spent on professors/researchers/administrators of computer networks that could pass their knowledge onto students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had no idea that college networks would even try to enforce such a thing.
I attend Ohio University.
We do not have any silly requirements to use our network, we just have to agree to a network usage policy.
In such a policy we must agree to not share copyrighted material on the network.
Students who have violated this policy have had stiff fines imposed on them, sometimes a court case, and even disciplinary action by the school.
Personally, I think this is a great policy.
I know it should not be a basis for choosing a school, but I would not go to a school with a crazy rule like that.
The money the school spends on software and technical support for a program like that would be much better off spent on professors/researchers/administrators of computer networks that could pass their knowledge onto students.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235013</id>
	<title>VPN plus VM equals privacy!</title>
	<author>EmperorOfCanada</author>
	<datestamp>1244317500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>VM Windows with their stupid client and use your normal OS for the rest. For completely secure internet access use a VPN service. There are VPN services that are a few dollars in a month(The Swiss are good that way). Then you can bounce your regular OS internet activity off your VM OS with the VPN client accessing the internet from outside the university. This way you have your cake and eat it too.
As far as your university would be concerned you would have the most boring OS in the world in that you basically do nothing but transmit encrypted crap back and fourth to your VPN.</htmltext>
<tokenext>VM Windows with their stupid client and use your normal OS for the rest .
For completely secure internet access use a VPN service .
There are VPN services that are a few dollars in a month ( The Swiss are good that way ) .
Then you can bounce your regular OS internet activity off your VM OS with the VPN client accessing the internet from outside the university .
This way you have your cake and eat it too .
As far as your university would be concerned you would have the most boring OS in the world in that you basically do nothing but transmit encrypted crap back and fourth to your VPN .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>VM Windows with their stupid client and use your normal OS for the rest.
For completely secure internet access use a VPN service.
There are VPN services that are a few dollars in a month(The Swiss are good that way).
Then you can bounce your regular OS internet activity off your VM OS with the VPN client accessing the internet from outside the university.
This way you have your cake and eat it too.
As far as your university would be concerned you would have the most boring OS in the world in that you basically do nothing but transmit encrypted crap back and fourth to your VPN.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359</id>
	<title>It's no worse than being at work</title>
	<author>petes\_PoV</author>
	<datestamp>1244319360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Congratulations - you're about to get a life-lesson.
<p>
In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself. In this case it might mean you have to fork out for your own 3G internet connection and pay accordingly (oh yes, and comply with the providers rules) or go and live somewhere where you can get a normal net connection from an ISP (oh yes, and comply with their rules).
</p><p>
This is all good experience for when / if you graduate and get a job. Suddenly you'll find that you can't goof around on other people's networks all day - downloading whatever the hell you please and doing whatever you want, they'll expect you to DO WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO. Consider this and the restrictions your university is imposing to be one, small step down this road. if you don't like it, well you can always go and buy your own ISP and then create whatever rules or freedoms you want.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Congratulations - you 're about to get a life-lesson .
In the real world , if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself .
In this case it might mean you have to fork out for your own 3G internet connection and pay accordingly ( oh yes , and comply with the providers rules ) or go and live somewhere where you can get a normal net connection from an ISP ( oh yes , and comply with their rules ) .
This is all good experience for when / if you graduate and get a job .
Suddenly you 'll find that you ca n't goof around on other people 's networks all day - downloading whatever the hell you please and doing whatever you want , they 'll expect you to DO WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO .
Consider this and the restrictions your university is imposing to be one , small step down this road .
if you do n't like it , well you can always go and buy your own ISP and then create whatever rules or freedoms you want .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Congratulations - you're about to get a life-lesson.
In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.
In this case it might mean you have to fork out for your own 3G internet connection and pay accordingly (oh yes, and comply with the providers rules) or go and live somewhere where you can get a normal net connection from an ISP (oh yes, and comply with their rules).
This is all good experience for when / if you graduate and get a job.
Suddenly you'll find that you can't goof around on other people's networks all day - downloading whatever the hell you please and doing whatever you want, they'll expect you to DO WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO.
Consider this and the restrictions your university is imposing to be one, small step down this road.
if you don't like it, well you can always go and buy your own ISP and then create whatever rules or freedoms you want.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241759</id>
	<title>Re:Waaah.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244394720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Love it. Universities are the ones creating the lawyers that cause all the DMCA BS. How about going back to TEACHING the concept of common carrier?</p><p>I don't recall that ATT OR Western Union were ever sued because someone used their services to break the law. Not even when it was the evil NKVD or KGB or STASI OR GESTAPO ETC.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Love it .
Universities are the ones creating the lawyers that cause all the DMCA BS .
How about going back to TEACHING the concept of common carrier ? I do n't recall that ATT OR Western Union were ever sued because someone used their services to break the law .
Not even when it was the evil NKVD or KGB or STASI OR GESTAPO ETC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Love it.
Universities are the ones creating the lawyers that cause all the DMCA BS.
How about going back to TEACHING the concept of common carrier?I don't recall that ATT OR Western Union were ever sued because someone used their services to break the law.
Not even when it was the evil NKVD or KGB or STASI OR GESTAPO ETC.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237285</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244290440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ugh, too lazy to log in. Yay for Cowardness.</p><p>I recall that a university I used to attend used to have a little program you had to run to get full network resources--it would scan and make sure you had an antivirus, your firewall was up, and you had the latest version of Windows. That was that. (Your antivirus didn't even have to be enabled. It just had to exist.) If you didn't run it, tough cookies--you could get HTTP access but that was that. If you were a Mac/*nix box, you were good to go right off the bat.  They've since abandoned the tool, although I believe they plan to bring it back (giving you gradually more access to network protocols the more compliant your box is, although HTTP is unaffected regardless.)</p><p>In the dorms they occasionally run scans and if they detect malware, you're off. They detect your firewall is off? You're off the network. As soon as they re-enable their firewall and let Resnet know it's cool, as soon as they remove the malware (or have Resnet do it for them, for free!) and let Resnet know, it's faaaantastic. (They've also loosened up bandwidth restrictions and have instituted new shaping policies that only throttle non-HTTP traffic for a few hours if you exceed your limits.)</p><p>I'm assuming something like this would be more agreeable to you?</p><p>Regardless, if you're on their network, you have to adhere to their policies. Usually if you log in, you accept their policies by default. If they want to make sure you've taken all reasonable security precautions, then so be it. If they want to make sure that you aren't using Limewire (which, for many users, is essentially a virus in the making--most people who still use Limewire over other options are most likely to be infected, or so I've observed firsthand), then so be it. It's their network. (Most universities tend to have a community of Ahoy Mateys anyway, who may or may not run and police their own, erm, Ship.)</p><p>Many, many, MANY university students are far less net-savvy than many Slashdotters would like to believe--the compsci kids are usually pretty good but my firsthand experience shows that for every two or three kids who know how to keep their computer safe from virii and nastiness, another ten have no earthly clue and encouraging them to keep their systems up to date and yeah, to ease up on the most-common-infection-vectors-of-P2P (seriously, the number of kids who don't know how to torrent or don't bother reading comments to see if a file is infected or not..), will keep their network and other resources on this network safer. Most accessible use policies on the campus internet only guarantee your ability to use the system for academic purposes--and they always have libraries and computer labs that meet their requirements.</p><p>Like Malenx says, either play by their rules, convince them their rules are stupid, or go somewhere else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ugh , too lazy to log in .
Yay for Cowardness.I recall that a university I used to attend used to have a little program you had to run to get full network resources--it would scan and make sure you had an antivirus , your firewall was up , and you had the latest version of Windows .
That was that .
( Your antivirus did n't even have to be enabled .
It just had to exist .
) If you did n't run it , tough cookies--you could get HTTP access but that was that .
If you were a Mac/ * nix box , you were good to go right off the bat .
They 've since abandoned the tool , although I believe they plan to bring it back ( giving you gradually more access to network protocols the more compliant your box is , although HTTP is unaffected regardless .
) In the dorms they occasionally run scans and if they detect malware , you 're off .
They detect your firewall is off ?
You 're off the network .
As soon as they re-enable their firewall and let Resnet know it 's cool , as soon as they remove the malware ( or have Resnet do it for them , for free !
) and let Resnet know , it 's faaaantastic .
( They 've also loosened up bandwidth restrictions and have instituted new shaping policies that only throttle non-HTTP traffic for a few hours if you exceed your limits .
) I 'm assuming something like this would be more agreeable to you ? Regardless , if you 're on their network , you have to adhere to their policies .
Usually if you log in , you accept their policies by default .
If they want to make sure you 've taken all reasonable security precautions , then so be it .
If they want to make sure that you are n't using Limewire ( which , for many users , is essentially a virus in the making--most people who still use Limewire over other options are most likely to be infected , or so I 've observed firsthand ) , then so be it .
It 's their network .
( Most universities tend to have a community of Ahoy Mateys anyway , who may or may not run and police their own , erm , Ship .
) Many , many , MANY university students are far less net-savvy than many Slashdotters would like to believe--the compsci kids are usually pretty good but my firsthand experience shows that for every two or three kids who know how to keep their computer safe from virii and nastiness , another ten have no earthly clue and encouraging them to keep their systems up to date and yeah , to ease up on the most-common-infection-vectors-of-P2P ( seriously , the number of kids who do n't know how to torrent or do n't bother reading comments to see if a file is infected or not.. ) , will keep their network and other resources on this network safer .
Most accessible use policies on the campus internet only guarantee your ability to use the system for academic purposes--and they always have libraries and computer labs that meet their requirements.Like Malenx says , either play by their rules , convince them their rules are stupid , or go somewhere else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ugh, too lazy to log in.
Yay for Cowardness.I recall that a university I used to attend used to have a little program you had to run to get full network resources--it would scan and make sure you had an antivirus, your firewall was up, and you had the latest version of Windows.
That was that.
(Your antivirus didn't even have to be enabled.
It just had to exist.
) If you didn't run it, tough cookies--you could get HTTP access but that was that.
If you were a Mac/*nix box, you were good to go right off the bat.
They've since abandoned the tool, although I believe they plan to bring it back (giving you gradually more access to network protocols the more compliant your box is, although HTTP is unaffected regardless.
)In the dorms they occasionally run scans and if they detect malware, you're off.
They detect your firewall is off?
You're off the network.
As soon as they re-enable their firewall and let Resnet know it's cool, as soon as they remove the malware (or have Resnet do it for them, for free!
) and let Resnet know, it's faaaantastic.
(They've also loosened up bandwidth restrictions and have instituted new shaping policies that only throttle non-HTTP traffic for a few hours if you exceed your limits.
)I'm assuming something like this would be more agreeable to you?Regardless, if you're on their network, you have to adhere to their policies.
Usually if you log in, you accept their policies by default.
If they want to make sure you've taken all reasonable security precautions, then so be it.
If they want to make sure that you aren't using Limewire (which, for many users, is essentially a virus in the making--most people who still use Limewire over other options are most likely to be infected, or so I've observed firsthand), then so be it.
It's their network.
(Most universities tend to have a community of Ahoy Mateys anyway, who may or may not run and police their own, erm, Ship.
)Many, many, MANY university students are far less net-savvy than many Slashdotters would like to believe--the compsci kids are usually pretty good but my firsthand experience shows that for every two or three kids who know how to keep their computer safe from virii and nastiness, another ten have no earthly clue and encouraging them to keep their systems up to date and yeah, to ease up on the most-common-infection-vectors-of-P2P (seriously, the number of kids who don't know how to torrent or don't bother reading comments to see if a file is infected or not..), will keep their network and other resources on this network safer.
Most accessible use policies on the campus internet only guarantee your ability to use the system for academic purposes--and they always have libraries and computer labs that meet their requirements.Like Malenx says, either play by their rules, convince them their rules are stupid, or go somewhere else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28256293</id>
	<title>Proxy or offline mode</title>
	<author>DigitalCrackPipe</author>
	<datestamp>1244454540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Off the top of my head, perhaps either having a proxy computer running that software and bridging it to your real computer, or running that software in a virtual machine, as others have suggested.
<br> <br>
Also, until you figure out a more sensible solution, I'd suggest keeping all sensetive data on an encrypted drive (such as truecrypt or freecrypt) and only decrypting that volume after killing the university spyware (after unplugging if needed).  While I'd suggest having an encrypted drive regardless, you also need a working solution that isn't a pain in the neck every single day.  Good luck.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Off the top of my head , perhaps either having a proxy computer running that software and bridging it to your real computer , or running that software in a virtual machine , as others have suggested .
Also , until you figure out a more sensible solution , I 'd suggest keeping all sensetive data on an encrypted drive ( such as truecrypt or freecrypt ) and only decrypting that volume after killing the university spyware ( after unplugging if needed ) .
While I 'd suggest having an encrypted drive regardless , you also need a working solution that is n't a pain in the neck every single day .
Good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Off the top of my head, perhaps either having a proxy computer running that software and bridging it to your real computer, or running that software in a virtual machine, as others have suggested.
Also, until you figure out a more sensible solution, I'd suggest keeping all sensetive data on an encrypted drive (such as truecrypt or freecrypt) and only decrypting that volume after killing the university spyware (after unplugging if needed).
While I'd suggest having an encrypted drive regardless, you also need a working solution that isn't a pain in the neck every single day.
Good luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235047</id>
	<title>Your question is bad, and you should feel bad.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You could always use TrueCrypt or similar products to protect anything remotely sensitive from snooping while you're on their network. So long as you know when the Client Security Agent is running, simply keep those partitions dismounted while the Agent is running, and they won't be able to see your stash of boring porn.</p><p>However, this isn't a particularly disorganized or egregious network usage policy. What language, exactly, do you think "expose[s your] web browsing habits, emails, and . . . passwords?" Also, looking at the "Client Security Agent," it appears to be nothing more than an app to turn on automatic updates, disable internet connection sharing, and check your anti-virus.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You could always use TrueCrypt or similar products to protect anything remotely sensitive from snooping while you 're on their network .
So long as you know when the Client Security Agent is running , simply keep those partitions dismounted while the Agent is running , and they wo n't be able to see your stash of boring porn.However , this is n't a particularly disorganized or egregious network usage policy .
What language , exactly , do you think " expose [ s your ] web browsing habits , emails , and .
. .
passwords ? " Also , looking at the " Client Security Agent , " it appears to be nothing more than an app to turn on automatic updates , disable internet connection sharing , and check your anti-virus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could always use TrueCrypt or similar products to protect anything remotely sensitive from snooping while you're on their network.
So long as you know when the Client Security Agent is running, simply keep those partitions dismounted while the Agent is running, and they won't be able to see your stash of boring porn.However, this isn't a particularly disorganized or egregious network usage policy.
What language, exactly, do you think "expose[s your] web browsing habits, emails, and .
. .
passwords?" Also, looking at the "Client Security Agent," it appears to be nothing more than an app to turn on automatic updates, disable internet connection sharing, and check your anti-virus.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238039</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>mikelieman</author>
	<datestamp>1244297460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you can't negotiate the terms in Good Faith, is it a Lawful contract?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you ca n't negotiate the terms in Good Faith , is it a Lawful contract ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you can't negotiate the terms in Good Faith, is it a Lawful contract?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235671</id>
	<title>Ok</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, firstly, I kinda agree with the person above.  You don't have a right to do thing your way on their network.</p><p>Although, from the anarchist deep inside me:<br>VPN to a home machine and out onto interwobs from there.  That'll defeat any network sniffers, so long as they don't just block the tunnel.  If they do, try sneaky HTTP tunnelling and things.  If you have a home server, chances are you can work something out.<br>R.e. the network security program thingy.  Either a) Make a VM inside your real machine and put the program on that.  Some sneaky network adapter setup might fool it.  Or, do everything (or just the sneaky things) inside a VM, run the client on the real machine, and hope they don't figure out how to look inside a VM.</p><p>Not ideal, but you could get some sort of wireless data dongle or something, and just avoid their network where possible.</p><p>Either way, my money says you should chill the heck out.  I'm just waiting to get flamed to hell by bearded people, but seriously, most of you geeks care far too much about security for your own good.  It's possible to not get owned without ruining your life over security (And possible to get owned if you do).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , firstly , I kinda agree with the person above .
You do n't have a right to do thing your way on their network.Although , from the anarchist deep inside me : VPN to a home machine and out onto interwobs from there .
That 'll defeat any network sniffers , so long as they do n't just block the tunnel .
If they do , try sneaky HTTP tunnelling and things .
If you have a home server , chances are you can work something out.R.e .
the network security program thingy .
Either a ) Make a VM inside your real machine and put the program on that .
Some sneaky network adapter setup might fool it .
Or , do everything ( or just the sneaky things ) inside a VM , run the client on the real machine , and hope they do n't figure out how to look inside a VM.Not ideal , but you could get some sort of wireless data dongle or something , and just avoid their network where possible.Either way , my money says you should chill the heck out .
I 'm just waiting to get flamed to hell by bearded people , but seriously , most of you geeks care far too much about security for your own good .
It 's possible to not get owned without ruining your life over security ( And possible to get owned if you do ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, firstly, I kinda agree with the person above.
You don't have a right to do thing your way on their network.Although, from the anarchist deep inside me:VPN to a home machine and out onto interwobs from there.
That'll defeat any network sniffers, so long as they don't just block the tunnel.
If they do, try sneaky HTTP tunnelling and things.
If you have a home server, chances are you can work something out.R.e.
the network security program thingy.
Either a) Make a VM inside your real machine and put the program on that.
Some sneaky network adapter setup might fool it.
Or, do everything (or just the sneaky things) inside a VM, run the client on the real machine, and hope they don't figure out how to look inside a VM.Not ideal, but you could get some sort of wireless data dongle or something, and just avoid their network where possible.Either way, my money says you should chill the heck out.
I'm just waiting to get flamed to hell by bearded people, but seriously, most of you geeks care far too much about security for your own good.
It's possible to not get owned without ruining your life over security (And possible to get owned if you do).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234907</id>
	<title>Virtualbox + OpenVPN</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Use Virtualbox to run the security agent in a virtual machine and OpenVPN to tunnel your traffic to a host on a less bigbrotherish network. If you feel like going against administration, you could also try to get the policy changed...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Use Virtualbox to run the security agent in a virtual machine and OpenVPN to tunnel your traffic to a host on a less bigbrotherish network .
If you feel like going against administration , you could also try to get the policy changed.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Use Virtualbox to run the security agent in a virtual machine and OpenVPN to tunnel your traffic to a host on a less bigbrotherish network.
If you feel like going against administration, you could also try to get the policy changed...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239021</id>
	<title>Run Linux</title>
	<author>rosasaul</author>
	<datestamp>1244308500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Every School I've been to that uses this also have an omission for Linux/Unix, so run that.

There's never support or much need for scanning on Linux systems so its an easy way around their policy, but if you must use windows and a virtual box session won't cut it, you can setup firewall setting such that your computer appears to run Linux.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Every School I 've been to that uses this also have an omission for Linux/Unix , so run that .
There 's never support or much need for scanning on Linux systems so its an easy way around their policy , but if you must use windows and a virtual box session wo n't cut it , you can setup firewall setting such that your computer appears to run Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every School I've been to that uses this also have an omission for Linux/Unix, so run that.
There's never support or much need for scanning on Linux systems so its an easy way around their policy, but if you must use windows and a virtual box session won't cut it, you can setup firewall setting such that your computer appears to run Linux.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234883</id>
	<title>Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244316960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just tell them you use Linux, even if you don't. They'll probably be able to add you to a white list.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just tell them you use Linux , even if you do n't .
They 'll probably be able to add you to a white list .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just tell them you use Linux, even if you don't.
They'll probably be able to add you to a white list.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237771</id>
	<title>Use a firewall</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244295120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>my school did the same thing.  My solution was to use a Linksys box and then dhcp my own network.  Because Linksys box was not a windows machine all I had to do was log on through an IE browser</htmltext>
<tokenext>my school did the same thing .
My solution was to use a Linksys box and then dhcp my own network .
Because Linksys box was not a windows machine all I had to do was log on through an IE browser</tokentext>
<sentencetext>my school did the same thing.
My solution was to use a Linksys box and then dhcp my own network.
Because Linksys box was not a windows machine all I had to do was log on through an IE browser</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235419</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>JakiChan</author>
	<datestamp>1244319600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm one of the evil characters involved with running a college campus network.</p></div><p>And I'm sure, using your logic, you'd be happy to allow the police the search your home, at any time, without a warrant.  Right?  I mean if you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm one of the evil characters involved with running a college campus network.And I 'm sure , using your logic , you 'd be happy to allow the police the search your home , at any time , without a warrant .
Right ? I mean if you 're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to hide .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm one of the evil characters involved with running a college campus network.And I'm sure, using your logic, you'd be happy to allow the police the search your home, at any time, without a warrant.
Right?  I mean if you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235947</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>TimothyDavis</author>
	<datestamp>1244279580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What is odd to me about this is that the network should be able to treat your machine as a black box, and monitor what is coming in and out.  Who the hell cares if you are running anti-virus on your personal machine?  If, on the other hand, you have a virus which is sending broadcast packets out onto the network, then the IT guys should easily be able to shut down your port.

<br> <br>Computers are going to get viruses and malware just like humans catch viruses and bacterial infections.  Anti-virus is only a layer of protection, not protection itself.  The focus should be on identifying computers who are spreading sickness to be quarantined, and then offer a charged service to clean up the computer (for those who cannot find a geek to befriend).</htmltext>
<tokenext>What is odd to me about this is that the network should be able to treat your machine as a black box , and monitor what is coming in and out .
Who the hell cares if you are running anti-virus on your personal machine ?
If , on the other hand , you have a virus which is sending broadcast packets out onto the network , then the IT guys should easily be able to shut down your port .
Computers are going to get viruses and malware just like humans catch viruses and bacterial infections .
Anti-virus is only a layer of protection , not protection itself .
The focus should be on identifying computers who are spreading sickness to be quarantined , and then offer a charged service to clean up the computer ( for those who can not find a geek to befriend ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is odd to me about this is that the network should be able to treat your machine as a black box, and monitor what is coming in and out.
Who the hell cares if you are running anti-virus on your personal machine?
If, on the other hand, you have a virus which is sending broadcast packets out onto the network, then the IT guys should easily be able to shut down your port.
Computers are going to get viruses and malware just like humans catch viruses and bacterial infections.
Anti-virus is only a layer of protection, not protection itself.
The focus should be on identifying computers who are spreading sickness to be quarantined, and then offer a charged service to clean up the computer (for those who cannot find a geek to befriend).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235663</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Running a college network is not an easy task, and I don't envy you. Let's face it, college networks are probably some of the most vulnerable to infections and rapid spreading. However, just because you don't care and you have good intentions (I mean who \_wants\_ to have an infected computer?) doesn't make this policy sketchy. Basically you are saying (to paraphrase your last line) if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. The reason why privacy advocates get worked up about these minor league, well-intentioned intrusions into privacy is because of the \_potential\_ for abuse.  It is all the worse because it is a piece of software that is a black box as far as the typical student is involved.</p><p>To make an analogy (what good<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. post doesn't have one of those?), this is along the same lines as security cameras on the street corners. Sure, most of the time no one is actually watching and anyway, after awhile they are just endless anonymous faces... until the day some watcher suddenly sits up and goes "hey - I know that guy... and that is not his wife...", or someone gets bored and starts tracking the attractive young woman around town, or some self-righteous zealot starts sending the cops out after teens necking in the park.</p><p>I'm sure making students install software that scans their computers makes the life of the network manager easier, just like warrantless searches would make police work easier. The real problem is that most students won't even ask the question posed by the original poster because they just don't know any better... If it were me, well, I swap back and forth between osx and linux, but I'd still refuse and do my best to raise awareness of why this is a problem - but maybe that's because I did my undergrad at Wesleyan way back in the day and if ever there was a place for causes...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Running a college network is not an easy task , and I do n't envy you .
Let 's face it , college networks are probably some of the most vulnerable to infections and rapid spreading .
However , just because you do n't care and you have good intentions ( I mean who \ _wants \ _ to have an infected computer ?
) does n't make this policy sketchy .
Basically you are saying ( to paraphrase your last line ) if you have nothing to hide , you have nothing to worry about .
The reason why privacy advocates get worked up about these minor league , well-intentioned intrusions into privacy is because of the \ _potential \ _ for abuse .
It is all the worse because it is a piece of software that is a black box as far as the typical student is involved.To make an analogy ( what good / .
post does n't have one of those ?
) , this is along the same lines as security cameras on the street corners .
Sure , most of the time no one is actually watching and anyway , after awhile they are just endless anonymous faces... until the day some watcher suddenly sits up and goes " hey - I know that guy... and that is not his wife... " , or someone gets bored and starts tracking the attractive young woman around town , or some self-righteous zealot starts sending the cops out after teens necking in the park.I 'm sure making students install software that scans their computers makes the life of the network manager easier , just like warrantless searches would make police work easier .
The real problem is that most students wo n't even ask the question posed by the original poster because they just do n't know any better... If it were me , well , I swap back and forth between osx and linux , but I 'd still refuse and do my best to raise awareness of why this is a problem - but maybe that 's because I did my undergrad at Wesleyan way back in the day and if ever there was a place for causes.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Running a college network is not an easy task, and I don't envy you.
Let's face it, college networks are probably some of the most vulnerable to infections and rapid spreading.
However, just because you don't care and you have good intentions (I mean who \_wants\_ to have an infected computer?
) doesn't make this policy sketchy.
Basically you are saying (to paraphrase your last line) if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.
The reason why privacy advocates get worked up about these minor league, well-intentioned intrusions into privacy is because of the \_potential\_ for abuse.
It is all the worse because it is a piece of software that is a black box as far as the typical student is involved.To make an analogy (what good /.
post doesn't have one of those?
), this is along the same lines as security cameras on the street corners.
Sure, most of the time no one is actually watching and anyway, after awhile they are just endless anonymous faces... until the day some watcher suddenly sits up and goes "hey - I know that guy... and that is not his wife...", or someone gets bored and starts tracking the attractive young woman around town, or some self-righteous zealot starts sending the cops out after teens necking in the park.I'm sure making students install software that scans their computers makes the life of the network manager easier, just like warrantless searches would make police work easier.
The real problem is that most students won't even ask the question posed by the original poster because they just don't know any better... If it were me, well, I swap back and forth between osx and linux, but I'd still refuse and do my best to raise awareness of why this is a problem - but maybe that's because I did my undergrad at Wesleyan way back in the day and if ever there was a place for causes...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28251189</id>
	<title>UMKC</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244476920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The UMKC network requires you to download and install software to verify that you have an up-to-date virus scan and have installed all high-priority windows updates. They do have one especially strange IT policy though - no PlayStation 3's on the network. They say that the PS3 internet connection requires incoming firewall exceptions while the 360 and wii only require outbound exceptions.</p><p>Interestingly, connecting a PS3 to the network grants you network access without even giving your user information (so even less of a hassle than using Linux). I suspect they may be telling people the PS3 won't work on the network in an attempt to hide the fact that they haven't secured it... for whatever reason.</p><p>They also won't allow you to connect even a simple unmanaged Ethernet switch - only one device on the network per wall jack. This becomes a hassle for people who have a desktop, laptop, and game console.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The UMKC network requires you to download and install software to verify that you have an up-to-date virus scan and have installed all high-priority windows updates .
They do have one especially strange IT policy though - no PlayStation 3 's on the network .
They say that the PS3 internet connection requires incoming firewall exceptions while the 360 and wii only require outbound exceptions.Interestingly , connecting a PS3 to the network grants you network access without even giving your user information ( so even less of a hassle than using Linux ) .
I suspect they may be telling people the PS3 wo n't work on the network in an attempt to hide the fact that they have n't secured it... for whatever reason.They also wo n't allow you to connect even a simple unmanaged Ethernet switch - only one device on the network per wall jack .
This becomes a hassle for people who have a desktop , laptop , and game console .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The UMKC network requires you to download and install software to verify that you have an up-to-date virus scan and have installed all high-priority windows updates.
They do have one especially strange IT policy though - no PlayStation 3's on the network.
They say that the PS3 internet connection requires incoming firewall exceptions while the 360 and wii only require outbound exceptions.Interestingly, connecting a PS3 to the network grants you network access without even giving your user information (so even less of a hassle than using Linux).
I suspect they may be telling people the PS3 won't work on the network in an attempt to hide the fact that they haven't secured it... for whatever reason.They also won't allow you to connect even a simple unmanaged Ethernet switch - only one device on the network per wall jack.
This becomes a hassle for people who have a desktop, laptop, and game console.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236975</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244287560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Come to Bucknell. We can pretty much do anything on our network so long as its within the 10GB over a 3 day rolling period. Also we have a top 10 engineering program and are one of the top liberal arts colleges in the nation.... so long as you dont care about how bad our athletics are for D1, but we are nerds so why should we care.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Come to Bucknell .
We can pretty much do anything on our network so long as its within the 10GB over a 3 day rolling period .
Also we have a top 10 engineering program and are one of the top liberal arts colleges in the nation.... so long as you dont care about how bad our athletics are for D1 , but we are nerds so why should we care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come to Bucknell.
We can pretty much do anything on our network so long as its within the 10GB over a 3 day rolling period.
Also we have a top 10 engineering program and are one of the top liberal arts colleges in the nation.... so long as you dont care about how bad our athletics are for D1, but we are nerds so why should we care.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235555</id>
	<title>CSA</title>
	<author>ffejie</author>
	<datestamp>1244320380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>CSA is actually probably Cisco Security Agent, although a lot of schools have been calling it Client Security Agent. It's a rather innocuous program that scans for virus' and the like. Unfortunately, the realities of networks today means that there's a lot of uneducated users on it - spreading legitimate filth, like virus' and malware because they were never trained properly in how to use a computer. The school has taken a very legitimate stance here: "When you plug your computer into <i>my</i> network, we reserve the right to make sure you're not an idiot." Does it suck compared to your parents internet? Yeah, probably, it's going to be more restrictive. However, it's less restrictive than most corporations and you should be grateful that they're not doing ridiculous things like banning Gmail or BitTorrent, like some companies do. When they do stuff like that, it's time to organize a student rally.</htmltext>
<tokenext>CSA is actually probably Cisco Security Agent , although a lot of schools have been calling it Client Security Agent .
It 's a rather innocuous program that scans for virus ' and the like .
Unfortunately , the realities of networks today means that there 's a lot of uneducated users on it - spreading legitimate filth , like virus ' and malware because they were never trained properly in how to use a computer .
The school has taken a very legitimate stance here : " When you plug your computer into my network , we reserve the right to make sure you 're not an idiot .
" Does it suck compared to your parents internet ?
Yeah , probably , it 's going to be more restrictive .
However , it 's less restrictive than most corporations and you should be grateful that they 're not doing ridiculous things like banning Gmail or BitTorrent , like some companies do .
When they do stuff like that , it 's time to organize a student rally .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CSA is actually probably Cisco Security Agent, although a lot of schools have been calling it Client Security Agent.
It's a rather innocuous program that scans for virus' and the like.
Unfortunately, the realities of networks today means that there's a lot of uneducated users on it - spreading legitimate filth, like virus' and malware because they were never trained properly in how to use a computer.
The school has taken a very legitimate stance here: "When you plug your computer into my network, we reserve the right to make sure you're not an idiot.
" Does it suck compared to your parents internet?
Yeah, probably, it's going to be more restrictive.
However, it's less restrictive than most corporations and you should be grateful that they're not doing ridiculous things like banning Gmail or BitTorrent, like some companies do.
When they do stuff like that, it's time to organize a student rally.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235875</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>tech\_freak'n\_stuff</author>
	<datestamp>1244279040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A different college.</p></div><p>yes, but wat if: there was a zombie apocalypse and that college was the only surving college in the united states, then BANG! there's another problem.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A different college.yes , but wat if : there was a zombie apocalypse and that college was the only surving college in the united states , then BANG !
there 's another problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A different college.yes, but wat if: there was a zombie apocalypse and that college was the only surving college in the united states, then BANG!
there's another problem.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28273769</id>
	<title>Follow the rulse by the letter</title>
	<author>drolli</author>
	<datestamp>1244555640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My simple opinion: Follow the rules by the letter. Make the scanner swallow on a big random data file of yours and then call the helpdesk.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My simple opinion : Follow the rules by the letter .
Make the scanner swallow on a big random data file of yours and then call the helpdesk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My simple opinion: Follow the rules by the letter.
Make the scanner swallow on a big random data file of yours and then call the helpdesk.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238403</id>
	<title>Let them scan virtual machines...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244301360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Run their trojan in a Virtual Machine that also has a proxy (or just is set up to route traffic).  Then use another VM to connect to the "legitimate" VM.  In this scenario, you would not have your real machine use the network interface at all, and all the nosy admins would be able to do is scan a VM, but not the VM you are using to actually do anything.  Best of all, you can run any OS and software you want and they have no way of telling what you really use or seeing anything except whatever you send over the wire.  This is not perfect, but I think it would be good enough.  Also, you might want to begin reversing that trojan and find out what it really does...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Run their trojan in a Virtual Machine that also has a proxy ( or just is set up to route traffic ) .
Then use another VM to connect to the " legitimate " VM .
In this scenario , you would not have your real machine use the network interface at all , and all the nosy admins would be able to do is scan a VM , but not the VM you are using to actually do anything .
Best of all , you can run any OS and software you want and they have no way of telling what you really use or seeing anything except whatever you send over the wire .
This is not perfect , but I think it would be good enough .
Also , you might want to begin reversing that trojan and find out what it really does.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Run their trojan in a Virtual Machine that also has a proxy (or just is set up to route traffic).
Then use another VM to connect to the "legitimate" VM.
In this scenario, you would not have your real machine use the network interface at all, and all the nosy admins would be able to do is scan a VM, but not the VM you are using to actually do anything.
Best of all, you can run any OS and software you want and they have no way of telling what you really use or seeing anything except whatever you send over the wire.
This is not perfect, but I think it would be good enough.
Also, you might want to begin reversing that trojan and find out what it really does...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28273639</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>vettemph</author>
	<datestamp>1244554620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> I like this one, but what I have done is: (IIRC)</p><p>1. Have a pc "at home" (your parents house?) running linux with openSSH on port 443 (https). The school (or work) will always allow outbound traffic to a secure website. You could be talking to your bank for all they know.</p><p>2. On a Windows machine (with bigbrother trojan installed), run the QEMU VM by downloading DSL embedded. It is DamnSmallLinux running in a VM. the qemu.exe, support files and your DSL install can fit on a pendrive. Alternately, you could install a full linux system into a 10gig img file for qemu use. etc...</p><p>Note:<br>
&nbsp; In dsl, launch a terminal and type something like "ssh -p 443 -X "<br>
&nbsp; This will SSH to port 443 at home with X11 support to run graphical apps. once logged in type "firefox" or whatever.</p><p>
&nbsp; Also, you parents router will have to DMZ the linux box or forward the port(443)</p><p>
&nbsp; You will be running the software of the home PC, your school computer will just be remote controlling the home PC over and encrytped connection.</p><p>
&nbsp; I have also done a simular setup using NoMachine.</p><p>There is a lot of learning here if you are not familiar qemu or linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like this one , but what I have done is : ( IIRC ) 1 .
Have a pc " at home " ( your parents house ?
) running linux with openSSH on port 443 ( https ) .
The school ( or work ) will always allow outbound traffic to a secure website .
You could be talking to your bank for all they know.2 .
On a Windows machine ( with bigbrother trojan installed ) , run the QEMU VM by downloading DSL embedded .
It is DamnSmallLinux running in a VM .
the qemu.exe , support files and your DSL install can fit on a pendrive .
Alternately , you could install a full linux system into a 10gig img file for qemu use .
etc...Note :   In dsl , launch a terminal and type something like " ssh -p 443 -X "   This will SSH to port 443 at home with X11 support to run graphical apps .
once logged in type " firefox " or whatever .
  Also , you parents router will have to DMZ the linux box or forward the port ( 443 )   You will be running the software of the home PC , your school computer will just be remote controlling the home PC over and encrytped connection .
  I have also done a simular setup using NoMachine.There is a lot of learning here if you are not familiar qemu or linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I like this one, but what I have done is: (IIRC)1.
Have a pc "at home" (your parents house?
) running linux with openSSH on port 443 (https).
The school (or work) will always allow outbound traffic to a secure website.
You could be talking to your bank for all they know.2.
On a Windows machine (with bigbrother trojan installed), run the QEMU VM by downloading DSL embedded.
It is DamnSmallLinux running in a VM.
the qemu.exe, support files and your DSL install can fit on a pendrive.
Alternately, you could install a full linux system into a 10gig img file for qemu use.
etc...Note:
  In dsl, launch a terminal and type something like "ssh -p 443 -X "
  This will SSH to port 443 at home with X11 support to run graphical apps.
once logged in type "firefox" or whatever.
  Also, you parents router will have to DMZ the linux box or forward the port(443)
  You will be running the software of the home PC, your school computer will just be remote controlling the home PC over and encrytped connection.
  I have also done a simular setup using NoMachine.There is a lot of learning here if you are not familiar qemu or linux.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235349</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28268501</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244572980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're likely running a Cisco NAC device.  In theory, there are "clean access" clients that work on Windows, Mac, and Linux.  Before you go spouting off on how bad this policy is, do some research on what those clients do:  They check to see if your computer has up-to-date antivirus software installed, and if your OS has the latest security patches in place.</p><p>While it may seem stupid to you on the face of things, keep in mind that you're connecting to their network.  The policy is there to keep the (often irresponsible) students from connecting their virus/malware laden machines on the network, and infecting everyone else.  It's also (probably) in place to comply with federal wiretapping laws.</p><p>If you really want to do something about it, go to an SGA meeting.  Write a piece for your university's newspaper.  Most students don't have the foggiest idea what this kind of policy means.  But enough outcry from concerned students is pretty much the only way you'll get the IT department to budge, and even then I wouldn't expect the policy to go away.</p><p>Better yet, make a copy of the university's usage policies and update them yourself.  It looks like they haven't been updated in over a decade.  Send a copy along with your correspondence to the SGA/OIT.</p><p>If you can't be bothered to change things, just use TOR and save your documents on a thumb drive.  Or move off-campus.  Or get a cellular data plan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're likely running a Cisco NAC device .
In theory , there are " clean access " clients that work on Windows , Mac , and Linux .
Before you go spouting off on how bad this policy is , do some research on what those clients do : They check to see if your computer has up-to-date antivirus software installed , and if your OS has the latest security patches in place.While it may seem stupid to you on the face of things , keep in mind that you 're connecting to their network .
The policy is there to keep the ( often irresponsible ) students from connecting their virus/malware laden machines on the network , and infecting everyone else .
It 's also ( probably ) in place to comply with federal wiretapping laws.If you really want to do something about it , go to an SGA meeting .
Write a piece for your university 's newspaper .
Most students do n't have the foggiest idea what this kind of policy means .
But enough outcry from concerned students is pretty much the only way you 'll get the IT department to budge , and even then I would n't expect the policy to go away.Better yet , make a copy of the university 's usage policies and update them yourself .
It looks like they have n't been updated in over a decade .
Send a copy along with your correspondence to the SGA/OIT.If you ca n't be bothered to change things , just use TOR and save your documents on a thumb drive .
Or move off-campus .
Or get a cellular data plan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're likely running a Cisco NAC device.
In theory, there are "clean access" clients that work on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
Before you go spouting off on how bad this policy is, do some research on what those clients do:  They check to see if your computer has up-to-date antivirus software installed, and if your OS has the latest security patches in place.While it may seem stupid to you on the face of things, keep in mind that you're connecting to their network.
The policy is there to keep the (often irresponsible) students from connecting their virus/malware laden machines on the network, and infecting everyone else.
It's also (probably) in place to comply with federal wiretapping laws.If you really want to do something about it, go to an SGA meeting.
Write a piece for your university's newspaper.
Most students don't have the foggiest idea what this kind of policy means.
But enough outcry from concerned students is pretty much the only way you'll get the IT department to budge, and even then I wouldn't expect the policy to go away.Better yet, make a copy of the university's usage policies and update them yourself.
It looks like they haven't been updated in over a decade.
Send a copy along with your correspondence to the SGA/OIT.If you can't be bothered to change things, just use TOR and save your documents on a thumb drive.
Or move off-campus.
Or get a cellular data plan.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235435</id>
	<title>Re:Linux</title>
	<author>betterunixthanunix</author>
	<datestamp>1244319660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe at a very small school without a CS or engineering program.  Where I went to school, if the computer center had tried to prevent people from running Linux, they would have had to deal with hundreds of professors' complaints.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe at a very small school without a CS or engineering program .
Where I went to school , if the computer center had tried to prevent people from running Linux , they would have had to deal with hundreds of professors ' complaints .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe at a very small school without a CS or engineering program.
Where I went to school, if the computer center had tried to prevent people from running Linux, they would have had to deal with hundreds of professors' complaints.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235077</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237783</id>
	<title>POUT POUT POUT  (QQ)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244295300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I love all these poor "abused and mistreated comments" from the students who think they are above the common sense rules and requirements that everyone else has to play by.  I'm sorry you feel you are being wronged.   Those rules<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/scans are there for a reason -   its to protect everyone - just because you feel you are so uber and your pc is simply not capable of having some network malware/trojan  - sounds like your pc is probably loaded with them - since i bet you go to sites that you shouldn't be.    If you want unlimitted/unrestricted access - pay for it yourself.  If you can't or there are no other providers - sounds like you need to button your lip and be thankful the school allows it at all.   People who keep pushing the limits like this - are reasons that the whole mess would get shut down - and you can use the library<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/open lab computers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I love all these poor " abused and mistreated comments " from the students who think they are above the common sense rules and requirements that everyone else has to play by .
I 'm sorry you feel you are being wronged .
Those rules /scans are there for a reason - its to protect everyone - just because you feel you are so uber and your pc is simply not capable of having some network malware/trojan - sounds like your pc is probably loaded with them - since i bet you go to sites that you should n't be .
If you want unlimitted/unrestricted access - pay for it yourself .
If you ca n't or there are no other providers - sounds like you need to button your lip and be thankful the school allows it at all .
People who keep pushing the limits like this - are reasons that the whole mess would get shut down - and you can use the library /open lab computers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love all these poor "abused and mistreated comments" from the students who think they are above the common sense rules and requirements that everyone else has to play by.
I'm sorry you feel you are being wronged.
Those rules /scans are there for a reason -   its to protect everyone - just because you feel you are so uber and your pc is simply not capable of having some network malware/trojan  - sounds like your pc is probably loaded with them - since i bet you go to sites that you shouldn't be.
If you want unlimitted/unrestricted access - pay for it yourself.
If you can't or there are no other providers - sounds like you need to button your lip and be thankful the school allows it at all.
People who keep pushing the limits like this - are reasons that the whole mess would get shut down - and you can use the library /open lab computers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235997</id>
	<title>windows only scanners forced you to use there anti</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1244279880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>windows only scanners forced you to use there anti virus is not that way to go when you have a big number of mac uses and some Linux users as well. Also does there windows app work with windows 64? windows 7?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>windows only scanners forced you to use there anti virus is not that way to go when you have a big number of mac uses and some Linux users as well .
Also does there windows app work with windows 64 ?
windows 7 ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>windows only scanners forced you to use there anti virus is not that way to go when you have a big number of mac uses and some Linux users as well.
Also does there windows app work with windows 64?
windows 7?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235523</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>rouge86</author>
	<datestamp>1244320200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps something a little less extreme would be helpful, such as move off campus.  The college can only dictate what you must install while you use their networks on campus.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps something a little less extreme would be helpful , such as move off campus .
The college can only dictate what you must install while you use their networks on campus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps something a little less extreme would be helpful, such as move off campus.
The college can only dictate what you must install while you use their networks on campus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28245501</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244380080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I use to goto central and work for IT, the all the CSA does is makes sure you have an up to date antivirus ( they provide one but you can pretty much use any AV you want). it also makes sure the machine is up to date if you are running windows, and scans for things like limewire because it is against the network terms of usage to have them, It also registers your machine for network use in bradford, and then it deletes itself and you have access. After that point the mac address is registered under your username and you are only forced to re register if you go over your band width quota, become infected or at the beginning of a new fall semester.</p><p>They don't care what you do on the network, when you go over your bandwidth quota they don't even check the reason you went over if you call in to find out they have to go through your logs and look for the port to see what caused it.</p><p>The quota lasts from sunday to sunday.</p><p>This all only applies to the residential network though, so if you aren't in a dorm room then you aren't capped.</p><p>Also they do use WPA2 radius wireless networks so you wont be transmitting in the open.</p><p>You can also use whatever operating system you want, when you goto register your machine if it detects that you are running a mac or a version of linux then it skips the CSA and just lets you in.</p><p>The CSA was put in place to keep the network safe from windows users who have no clue what they are doing and the bandwidth quotas were put in place to keep 5 people from using 90\% of the bandwidth on campus.</p><p>you are all blowing this out of proportion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I use to goto central and work for IT , the all the CSA does is makes sure you have an up to date antivirus ( they provide one but you can pretty much use any AV you want ) .
it also makes sure the machine is up to date if you are running windows , and scans for things like limewire because it is against the network terms of usage to have them , It also registers your machine for network use in bradford , and then it deletes itself and you have access .
After that point the mac address is registered under your username and you are only forced to re register if you go over your band width quota , become infected or at the beginning of a new fall semester.They do n't care what you do on the network , when you go over your bandwidth quota they do n't even check the reason you went over if you call in to find out they have to go through your logs and look for the port to see what caused it.The quota lasts from sunday to sunday.This all only applies to the residential network though , so if you are n't in a dorm room then you are n't capped.Also they do use WPA2 radius wireless networks so you wont be transmitting in the open.You can also use whatever operating system you want , when you goto register your machine if it detects that you are running a mac or a version of linux then it skips the CSA and just lets you in.The CSA was put in place to keep the network safe from windows users who have no clue what they are doing and the bandwidth quotas were put in place to keep 5 people from using 90 \ % of the bandwidth on campus.you are all blowing this out of proportion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use to goto central and work for IT, the all the CSA does is makes sure you have an up to date antivirus ( they provide one but you can pretty much use any AV you want).
it also makes sure the machine is up to date if you are running windows, and scans for things like limewire because it is against the network terms of usage to have them, It also registers your machine for network use in bradford, and then it deletes itself and you have access.
After that point the mac address is registered under your username and you are only forced to re register if you go over your band width quota, become infected or at the beginning of a new fall semester.They don't care what you do on the network, when you go over your bandwidth quota they don't even check the reason you went over if you call in to find out they have to go through your logs and look for the port to see what caused it.The quota lasts from sunday to sunday.This all only applies to the residential network though, so if you aren't in a dorm room then you aren't capped.Also they do use WPA2 radius wireless networks so you wont be transmitting in the open.You can also use whatever operating system you want, when you goto register your machine if it detects that you are running a mac or a version of linux then it skips the CSA and just lets you in.The CSA was put in place to keep the network safe from windows users who have no clue what they are doing and the bandwidth quotas were put in place to keep 5 people from using 90\% of the bandwidth on campus.you are all blowing this out of proportion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236917</id>
	<title>Verizon has coverage at Central Michigan</title>
	<author>chriswaco</author>
	<datestamp>1244286840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Buy a Verizon 3G wireless USB dongle. It'll cost you $60/month, but they appear to have coverage in Mt. Pleasant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Buy a Verizon 3G wireless USB dongle .
It 'll cost you $ 60/month , but they appear to have coverage in Mt .
Pleasant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Buy a Verizon 3G wireless USB dongle.
It'll cost you $60/month, but they appear to have coverage in Mt.
Pleasant.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235745</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><div class="quote"><p><i>But again, it is <i>my machine</i>, and it is <i>my money</i> that is paying for that Internet connection.  Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me.  "You <i>might</i> get infected or break copyright law" is <i>not</i> a valid excuse.</i></p></div><p>Dude, your money only pays for a very small part of the school's network.  Do you think they should let you piss in the university president's office because it is <i>your penis</i>, and it is <i>your money</i> that pays for that office?  These measures are designed to prevent the school from getting sued and to prevent network users from spreading viruses to other users.  It is <i>their</i> network, and they can require you to meet some basic security requirements if you want to use the network.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But again , it is my machine , and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection .
Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free , it is a paid-for service , and you 'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me .
" You might get infected or break copyright law " is not a valid excuse.Dude , your money only pays for a very small part of the school 's network .
Do you think they should let you piss in the university president 's office because it is your penis , and it is your money that pays for that office ?
These measures are designed to prevent the school from getting sued and to prevent network users from spreading viruses to other users .
It is their network , and they can require you to meet some basic security requirements if you want to use the network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But again, it is my machine, and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection.
Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me.
"You might get infected or break copyright law" is not a valid excuse.Dude, your money only pays for a very small part of the school's network.
Do you think they should let you piss in the university president's office because it is your penis, and it is your money that pays for that office?
These measures are designed to prevent the school from getting sued and to prevent network users from spreading viruses to other users.
It is their network, and they can require you to meet some basic security requirements if you want to use the network.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891</id>
	<title>No.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244316960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Do all colleges have such extreme measures in place?</p></div><p>No, mine doesn't.  Technically we just have to have antivirus software installed, and keep up with MS's security patches, and they really don't ever even check for those.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do all colleges have such extreme measures in place ? No , mine does n't .
Technically we just have to have antivirus software installed , and keep up with MS 's security patches , and they really do n't ever even check for those .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do all colleges have such extreme measures in place?No, mine doesn't.
Technically we just have to have antivirus software installed, and keep up with MS's security patches, and they really don't ever even check for those.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>Idiot with a gun</author>
	<datestamp>1244318340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm a tech support (ResNet, CMU has it too) at a different university that has a similar "Client Security Agent." I'm not sure who provides their CSA, but ours only checks for antivirus, antivirus updates, windows updates, and common P2P programs (usually limewire). If anyone fails these, they are instructed to uninstall limewire, update anti-virus, whatever, and rescan. We don't prosecute based off of any data, but it's more of a prevention system to avoid any DMCA notices.<br> <br> That being said, this is for windows only. Mac and Linux are only single time scans (for what, I do not know), and after that your MAC is white listed with your ID. The beauty is that once registered, it's MAC specific, not OS. I should note that our provider is promising a Client Security Agent for Mac soon, but I doubt a Linux one is coming.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a tech support ( ResNet , CMU has it too ) at a different university that has a similar " Client Security Agent .
" I 'm not sure who provides their CSA , but ours only checks for antivirus , antivirus updates , windows updates , and common P2P programs ( usually limewire ) .
If anyone fails these , they are instructed to uninstall limewire , update anti-virus , whatever , and rescan .
We do n't prosecute based off of any data , but it 's more of a prevention system to avoid any DMCA notices .
That being said , this is for windows only .
Mac and Linux are only single time scans ( for what , I do not know ) , and after that your MAC is white listed with your ID .
The beauty is that once registered , it 's MAC specific , not OS .
I should note that our provider is promising a Client Security Agent for Mac soon , but I doubt a Linux one is coming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a tech support (ResNet, CMU has it too) at a different university that has a similar "Client Security Agent.
" I'm not sure who provides their CSA, but ours only checks for antivirus, antivirus updates, windows updates, and common P2P programs (usually limewire).
If anyone fails these, they are instructed to uninstall limewire, update anti-virus, whatever, and rescan.
We don't prosecute based off of any data, but it's more of a prevention system to avoid any DMCA notices.
That being said, this is for windows only.
Mac and Linux are only single time scans (for what, I do not know), and after that your MAC is white listed with your ID.
The beauty is that once registered, it's MAC specific, not OS.
I should note that our provider is promising a Client Security Agent for Mac soon, but I doubt a Linux one is coming.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235615</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>betterunixthanunix</author>
	<datestamp>1244320680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A problem we had at my school was that the Linux CSA was distributed as a binary executable, and it had been compiled on RHEL5.  Fedora 8+ did not work because of newer libraries, new versions of Ubuntu did not work, and other distros failed really hard.<br> <br>

We also had a small group of BSD users who were left completely out in the cold, and an even smaller group of OpenSolaris users who were also unable to register.  That is the problem with these CSA programs -- they cannot work for everyone.  The previous policy was a lot better:  if you did something that actually harmed others' use of the network, then you were kicked off.  No registration, no muss, no fuss -- just a simple policy that left everyone happy.  I have no idea why that policy was dropped.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A problem we had at my school was that the Linux CSA was distributed as a binary executable , and it had been compiled on RHEL5 .
Fedora 8 + did not work because of newer libraries , new versions of Ubuntu did not work , and other distros failed really hard .
We also had a small group of BSD users who were left completely out in the cold , and an even smaller group of OpenSolaris users who were also unable to register .
That is the problem with these CSA programs -- they can not work for everyone .
The previous policy was a lot better : if you did something that actually harmed others ' use of the network , then you were kicked off .
No registration , no muss , no fuss -- just a simple policy that left everyone happy .
I have no idea why that policy was dropped .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A problem we had at my school was that the Linux CSA was distributed as a binary executable, and it had been compiled on RHEL5.
Fedora 8+ did not work because of newer libraries, new versions of Ubuntu did not work, and other distros failed really hard.
We also had a small group of BSD users who were left completely out in the cold, and an even smaller group of OpenSolaris users who were also unable to register.
That is the problem with these CSA programs -- they cannot work for everyone.
The previous policy was a lot better:  if you did something that actually harmed others' use of the network, then you were kicked off.
No registration, no muss, no fuss -- just a simple policy that left everyone happy.
I have no idea why that policy was dropped.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239543</id>
	<title>Proxy their proxy</title>
	<author>kheldan</author>
	<datestamp>1244316660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Put together a small, low-powered, skeletal machine (Atom processor or similar) to run their nonsense software on, then install 3proxy on the machine as well, and proxy your REAL computer through the low-powered machine. They can scan that one all they want and they won't find anything except an untouched installation of Windows, meanwhile you can browse all you want with no fear of your real machine being scanned. If your network traffic itself is a problem, then I'd recommend a commercial proxy or commercial VPN account.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Put together a small , low-powered , skeletal machine ( Atom processor or similar ) to run their nonsense software on , then install 3proxy on the machine as well , and proxy your REAL computer through the low-powered machine .
They can scan that one all they want and they wo n't find anything except an untouched installation of Windows , meanwhile you can browse all you want with no fear of your real machine being scanned .
If your network traffic itself is a problem , then I 'd recommend a commercial proxy or commercial VPN account .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put together a small, low-powered, skeletal machine (Atom processor or similar) to run their nonsense software on, then install 3proxy on the machine as well, and proxy your REAL computer through the low-powered machine.
They can scan that one all they want and they won't find anything except an untouched installation of Windows, meanwhile you can browse all you want with no fear of your real machine being scanned.
If your network traffic itself is a problem, then I'd recommend a commercial proxy or commercial VPN account.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241135</id>
	<title>RIT here</title>
	<author>KingAlanI</author>
	<datestamp>1244387880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fortunately, my university's IT policies aren't so asshat-ish. Yes, they offer that McAfee download, but I think the rules technically say that you have to have some AV installed, not necessarily *that* one. (I do use it because they hand it out free, and I'm not paranoid about that stuff anyway because of my largely intelligent browsing practices)<br>Linux machines - no problem<br>Considering the linux fans that must exist aroudn here, and all the Mac-heads [I do seem to see more Apple laptops], it's no surprise that that "alternate OSes" are okay.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fortunately , my university 's IT policies are n't so asshat-ish .
Yes , they offer that McAfee download , but I think the rules technically say that you have to have some AV installed , not necessarily * that * one .
( I do use it because they hand it out free , and I 'm not paranoid about that stuff anyway because of my largely intelligent browsing practices ) Linux machines - no problemConsidering the linux fans that must exist aroudn here , and all the Mac-heads [ I do seem to see more Apple laptops ] , it 's no surprise that that " alternate OSes " are okay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fortunately, my university's IT policies aren't so asshat-ish.
Yes, they offer that McAfee download, but I think the rules technically say that you have to have some AV installed, not necessarily *that* one.
(I do use it because they hand it out free, and I'm not paranoid about that stuff anyway because of my largely intelligent browsing practices)Linux machines - no problemConsidering the linux fans that must exist aroudn here, and all the Mac-heads [I do seem to see more Apple laptops], it's no surprise that that "alternate OSes" are okay.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240899</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244385300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here in the states, Congress and the Feds are requiring any university or college that gets federal student aid to adopt similar network policies.</p><p>And when a school does have a policy like this, you have to agree to it and then can be bounced for circumventing it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in the states , Congress and the Feds are requiring any university or college that gets federal student aid to adopt similar network policies.And when a school does have a policy like this , you have to agree to it and then can be bounced for circumventing it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in the states, Congress and the Feds are requiring any university or college that gets federal student aid to adopt similar network policies.And when a school does have a policy like this, you have to agree to it and then can be bounced for circumventing it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237981</id>
	<title>Re:Perfectly reasonable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244296860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do most universities allow third parties to provide in dorm internet access?  It seems like that would be a significant consideration.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do most universities allow third parties to provide in dorm internet access ?
It seems like that would be a significant consideration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do most universities allow third parties to provide in dorm internet access?
It seems like that would be a significant consideration.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235247</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237733</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244294760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a former CMU student, I have to agree with this statement. These measures have to be taken because the majority of college students don't have a clue when their computer is exploited.</p><p>For the remaining minority of students that are computer literate, this is more of a valid protest, but if you don't like it, don't stay on campus. There are TONS of apartments very close to Central's campus within minutes by bike or by foot.</p><p>However, I would avoid the larger apartment complexes (Jamestown apts and Deerfield village are part of the United Apartments group). They have their own network that you pay for service as part of your rent. You'd be better off paying for your own service (Charter or Verizon there) than using that. (Disclaimer: United Apts shut whole groups of buildings down networkwise when Blaster was released and it took almost a month for us to get reasonable Internet access).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a former CMU student , I have to agree with this statement .
These measures have to be taken because the majority of college students do n't have a clue when their computer is exploited.For the remaining minority of students that are computer literate , this is more of a valid protest , but if you do n't like it , do n't stay on campus .
There are TONS of apartments very close to Central 's campus within minutes by bike or by foot.However , I would avoid the larger apartment complexes ( Jamestown apts and Deerfield village are part of the United Apartments group ) .
They have their own network that you pay for service as part of your rent .
You 'd be better off paying for your own service ( Charter or Verizon there ) than using that .
( Disclaimer : United Apts shut whole groups of buildings down networkwise when Blaster was released and it took almost a month for us to get reasonable Internet access ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a former CMU student, I have to agree with this statement.
These measures have to be taken because the majority of college students don't have a clue when their computer is exploited.For the remaining minority of students that are computer literate, this is more of a valid protest, but if you don't like it, don't stay on campus.
There are TONS of apartments very close to Central's campus within minutes by bike or by foot.However, I would avoid the larger apartment complexes (Jamestown apts and Deerfield village are part of the United Apartments group).
They have their own network that you pay for service as part of your rent.
You'd be better off paying for your own service (Charter or Verizon there) than using that.
(Disclaimer: United Apts shut whole groups of buildings down networkwise when Blaster was released and it took almost a month for us to get reasonable Internet access).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237851</id>
	<title>How I got around it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244295900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>A crucial difference with the way I got around this was to set up a laptop with a streamlined XP install in a VM on top of ubuntu. Now in this case they had agent software that would forcibly disable internet connection sharing and all other network adapters other than the inbound one etc. It was quite simple to install a commercial spec firewall package that replaces windows' ICS system and takes over a number of other networking services.
<br> <br>
It was only necessary then to route to another VM, which would handle the Wi-Fi USB dongle and there would be NO way the agent software would find this and lock itself out = Instant wireless access point for me and my colleges.
<br> <br>
All this just to get a orphaned server on to the net to download patches that they had asked me to fix!</htmltext>
<tokenext>A crucial difference with the way I got around this was to set up a laptop with a streamlined XP install in a VM on top of ubuntu .
Now in this case they had agent software that would forcibly disable internet connection sharing and all other network adapters other than the inbound one etc .
It was quite simple to install a commercial spec firewall package that replaces windows ' ICS system and takes over a number of other networking services .
It was only necessary then to route to another VM , which would handle the Wi-Fi USB dongle and there would be NO way the agent software would find this and lock itself out = Instant wireless access point for me and my colleges .
All this just to get a orphaned server on to the net to download patches that they had asked me to fix !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A crucial difference with the way I got around this was to set up a laptop with a streamlined XP install in a VM on top of ubuntu.
Now in this case they had agent software that would forcibly disable internet connection sharing and all other network adapters other than the inbound one etc.
It was quite simple to install a commercial spec firewall package that replaces windows' ICS system and takes over a number of other networking services.
It was only necessary then to route to another VM, which would handle the Wi-Fi USB dongle and there would be NO way the agent software would find this and lock itself out = Instant wireless access point for me and my colleges.
All this just to get a orphaned server on to the net to download patches that they had asked me to fix!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239235</id>
	<title>Find a different college</title>
	<author>incandescent.quill</author>
	<datestamp>1244311860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If they tried to implement something like this at my university, there would be riots.  There are very few restrictions on what students can and cannot do on the school internet, so long as it doesn't damage anything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they tried to implement something like this at my university , there would be riots .
There are very few restrictions on what students can and can not do on the school internet , so long as it does n't damage anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they tried to implement something like this at my university, there would be riots.
There are very few restrictions on what students can and cannot do on the school internet, so long as it doesn't damage anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235699</id>
	<title>Re:Use a PS3 or BeagleBoard</title>
	<author>Idiot with a gun</author>
	<datestamp>1244321220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They'll white list it like any other console, or like any Mac or Linux computer for that matter. They might smack you for being paranoid and annoying though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They 'll white list it like any other console , or like any Mac or Linux computer for that matter .
They might smack you for being paranoid and annoying though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They'll white list it like any other console, or like any Mac or Linux computer for that matter.
They might smack you for being paranoid and annoying though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235539</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236005</id>
	<title>CCA?</title>
	<author>spikedvodka</author>
	<datestamp>1244279940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let me guess... the Client Security Access is probably Cisco Clean Access, or something else along the same lines.</p><p>This is nothing special, a lot of places run CCA. If you don't like it, love off campus, or don't use the campus network.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let me guess... the Client Security Access is probably Cisco Clean Access , or something else along the same lines.This is nothing special , a lot of places run CCA .
If you do n't like it , love off campus , or do n't use the campus network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let me guess... the Client Security Access is probably Cisco Clean Access, or something else along the same lines.This is nothing special, a lot of places run CCA.
If you don't like it, love off campus, or don't use the campus network.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238329</id>
	<title>why fight it?</title>
	<author>MooseTick</author>
	<datestamp>1244300640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You want internet access on your terms? Then pay for it. Get a Verizon/Sprint card and access the internet using that. They are all of $50/month and compared to the tuition you are paying, that is nothing. Or, you could surf using their terms while on campus and do whatever you believe should be "private" when off campus.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You want internet access on your terms ?
Then pay for it .
Get a Verizon/Sprint card and access the internet using that .
They are all of $ 50/month and compared to the tuition you are paying , that is nothing .
Or , you could surf using their terms while on campus and do whatever you believe should be " private " when off campus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You want internet access on your terms?
Then pay for it.
Get a Verizon/Sprint card and access the internet using that.
They are all of $50/month and compared to the tuition you are paying, that is nothing.
Or, you could surf using their terms while on campus and do whatever you believe should be "private" when off campus.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239269</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244312580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do technology for schools, too, and you might think you're on top of things right now, but all you're doing is laying the groundwork for someone with authority to abuse the system.</p><p>When the president comes and says that he needs to know what's on a student's computer as part of an investigation, will you help? Will you quit? Will you leave the tools intact when you leave, so that your replacement can easily help with the investigation?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do technology for schools , too , and you might think you 're on top of things right now , but all you 're doing is laying the groundwork for someone with authority to abuse the system.When the president comes and says that he needs to know what 's on a student 's computer as part of an investigation , will you help ?
Will you quit ?
Will you leave the tools intact when you leave , so that your replacement can easily help with the investigation ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do technology for schools, too, and you might think you're on top of things right now, but all you're doing is laying the groundwork for someone with authority to abuse the system.When the president comes and says that he needs to know what's on a student's computer as part of an investigation, will you help?
Will you quit?
Will you leave the tools intact when you leave, so that your replacement can easily help with the investigation?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915</id>
	<title>That's insane.</title>
	<author>KingSkippus</author>
	<datestamp>1244317080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude, I don't know what to say, that's insane.  The only suggestion I have is to either not use the Internet on your personal computer or find another university to go to.  <i>sigh...</i>  Looks like along with all the other stuff that determines what school a kid goes to, we're going to have to add "how screwed up is your Internet access policy?" to the list.</p><p>Stupid question, what if your machine is a Mac or Linux box?  This "Client Security Agent" seems to be a Windows-only beast.  Whatever it is, it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university <i>that I'm paying money to</i> dictate that I have to have <i>their</i> software on <i>my</i> machine to use the Internet access that <i>my tuition and fees</i> are paying for!</p><p>Looks to me like a clear-cut case of some overzealous IT goob forgotting who is paying whose salary.  I'm not saying that you're the Chairman of the Board, but you most certainly should expect to have the right to have full access to this academic resource without this kind of burden.</p><p>As a practical matter, you could just call up their IT department and tell them that you have a Linux box, even if you have Windows, and that your machine doesn't run their "Client Security Agent."  Whatever they tell you to do to get on the network, just do that on your Windows machine and be done with it.  If they tell you that it can't be done, seriously.  Go somewhere else.  If this university is that stupid, you shouldn't particularly want a diploma from there anyway.</p><p>If you do call them up and ask about Macs and Linux machines, let us know what they say.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude , I do n't know what to say , that 's insane .
The only suggestion I have is to either not use the Internet on your personal computer or find another university to go to .
sigh... Looks like along with all the other stuff that determines what school a kid goes to , we 're going to have to add " how screwed up is your Internet access policy ?
" to the list.Stupid question , what if your machine is a Mac or Linux box ?
This " Client Security Agent " seems to be a Windows-only beast .
Whatever it is , it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university that I 'm paying money to dictate that I have to have their software on my machine to use the Internet access that my tuition and fees are paying for ! Looks to me like a clear-cut case of some overzealous IT goob forgotting who is paying whose salary .
I 'm not saying that you 're the Chairman of the Board , but you most certainly should expect to have the right to have full access to this academic resource without this kind of burden.As a practical matter , you could just call up their IT department and tell them that you have a Linux box , even if you have Windows , and that your machine does n't run their " Client Security Agent .
" Whatever they tell you to do to get on the network , just do that on your Windows machine and be done with it .
If they tell you that it ca n't be done , seriously .
Go somewhere else .
If this university is that stupid , you should n't particularly want a diploma from there anyway.If you do call them up and ask about Macs and Linux machines , let us know what they say .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude, I don't know what to say, that's insane.
The only suggestion I have is to either not use the Internet on your personal computer or find another university to go to.
sigh...  Looks like along with all the other stuff that determines what school a kid goes to, we're going to have to add "how screwed up is your Internet access policy?
" to the list.Stupid question, what if your machine is a Mac or Linux box?
This "Client Security Agent" seems to be a Windows-only beast.
Whatever it is, it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university that I'm paying money to dictate that I have to have their software on my machine to use the Internet access that my tuition and fees are paying for!Looks to me like a clear-cut case of some overzealous IT goob forgotting who is paying whose salary.
I'm not saying that you're the Chairman of the Board, but you most certainly should expect to have the right to have full access to this academic resource without this kind of burden.As a practical matter, you could just call up their IT department and tell them that you have a Linux box, even if you have Windows, and that your machine doesn't run their "Client Security Agent.
"  Whatever they tell you to do to get on the network, just do that on your Windows machine and be done with it.
If they tell you that it can't be done, seriously.
Go somewhere else.
If this university is that stupid, you shouldn't particularly want a diploma from there anyway.If you do call them up and ask about Macs and Linux machines, let us know what they say.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235287</id>
	<title>fill up before you go</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244318940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Build up a decent collection before you go, and refill whenever you go get mom to do the laundry. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Build up a decent collection before you go , and refill whenever you go get mom to do the laundry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Build up a decent collection before you go, and refill whenever you go get mom to do the laundry. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28257283</id>
	<title>As a relatively recent graduate</title>
	<author>zhar</author>
	<datestamp>1244458200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I graduated from Central Michigan University in May 2008. While the current network policies may seem restrictive, I did live in the dorms during the 2003-2004 school year, and between xbox gaming and unlimited p2p filesharing, we had to survive with bandwidth that had the throughput of a coathanger. Average download speeds would rarely top the equivelent of dialup.

I know that there is a plethora of affordable off-campus housing in Mount Pleasant, most of it with broadband included in the price of rent. If you aren't trapped by the horrible if-you-get-any-scholarship policy that makes you live on campus for two years, I strongly advise you to look into it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I graduated from Central Michigan University in May 2008 .
While the current network policies may seem restrictive , I did live in the dorms during the 2003-2004 school year , and between xbox gaming and unlimited p2p filesharing , we had to survive with bandwidth that had the throughput of a coathanger .
Average download speeds would rarely top the equivelent of dialup .
I know that there is a plethora of affordable off-campus housing in Mount Pleasant , most of it with broadband included in the price of rent .
If you are n't trapped by the horrible if-you-get-any-scholarship policy that makes you live on campus for two years , I strongly advise you to look into it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I graduated from Central Michigan University in May 2008.
While the current network policies may seem restrictive, I did live in the dorms during the 2003-2004 school year, and between xbox gaming and unlimited p2p filesharing, we had to survive with bandwidth that had the throughput of a coathanger.
Average download speeds would rarely top the equivelent of dialup.
I know that there is a plethora of affordable off-campus housing in Mount Pleasant, most of it with broadband included in the price of rent.
If you aren't trapped by the horrible if-you-get-any-scholarship policy that makes you live on campus for two years, I strongly advise you to look into it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238007</id>
	<title>Live Off-campus...</title>
	<author>bwcbwc</author>
	<datestamp>1244297220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And get a private DSL line.   I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.  Much more convenient than enrolling in a different college.</p><p>Or if they haven't implemented VOIP service in the dorms, maybe you can get DSL inside the dorms.</p><p>In either case, ideally you should have a separate computer for your private access vs. the campus access, but that isn't a requirement. If you want to use the same computer for internet access and accessing the school network, do a dual-boot system, where the DSL is in one environment and the campus connection is in the other. Or have the DSL on both so you can access the campus remotely over the DSL, but the key is to have a separate DSL image without the "spyware". Basically, image your current HD onto a new disk then keep both disks as bootable in the system. Install all the campus stuff on one of the partitions.  Depending on your environment there are different ways to hide the alternate partition from the campus partition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And get a private DSL line .
I 'm surprised no one has mentioned this .
Much more convenient than enrolling in a different college.Or if they have n't implemented VOIP service in the dorms , maybe you can get DSL inside the dorms.In either case , ideally you should have a separate computer for your private access vs. the campus access , but that is n't a requirement .
If you want to use the same computer for internet access and accessing the school network , do a dual-boot system , where the DSL is in one environment and the campus connection is in the other .
Or have the DSL on both so you can access the campus remotely over the DSL , but the key is to have a separate DSL image without the " spyware " .
Basically , image your current HD onto a new disk then keep both disks as bootable in the system .
Install all the campus stuff on one of the partitions .
Depending on your environment there are different ways to hide the alternate partition from the campus partition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And get a private DSL line.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.
Much more convenient than enrolling in a different college.Or if they haven't implemented VOIP service in the dorms, maybe you can get DSL inside the dorms.In either case, ideally you should have a separate computer for your private access vs. the campus access, but that isn't a requirement.
If you want to use the same computer for internet access and accessing the school network, do a dual-boot system, where the DSL is in one environment and the campus connection is in the other.
Or have the DSL on both so you can access the campus remotely over the DSL, but the key is to have a separate DSL image without the "spyware".
Basically, image your current HD onto a new disk then keep both disks as bootable in the system.
Install all the campus stuff on one of the partitions.
Depending on your environment there are different ways to hide the alternate partition from the campus partition.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239227</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244311740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>lol, you're a foggot</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>lol , you 're a foggot</tokentext>
<sentencetext>lol, you're a foggot</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235745</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28242683</id>
	<title>Insider clarification</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244401200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work at CMU's IT Help Desk, and I want to clarify a few things.</p><p>Thing one: The CSA does a single scan every time you register your computer (which, unless you go over quota, shakes out to be the beginning of each semester) and it checks to see if you have one of our six supported anti-virus/malware/spyware applications (McAfee, Nortonfail, Trend, Sophos, Kapersky, AVG), any P2P applications that are in the (fairly limited) list, and latest Windows patches and AV definitions.  Essentially, if the CSA sees that you don't have correct AV/definitions/security patches, it won't let you on - this is to protect the rest of the network.</p><p>Subtext: Yes, it does scan for P2P applications - however, if it sees them it won't block your computer from the network.  It pretty much just says, "hey, don't pirate kthxbai" and lets you be.<br>Subtext 2: The result of this scan shows up in our system essentially as a list of all these things and "PASS" or "FAIL" next to it - that allows us to tell people what they need to do to get onto the network if they fail the CSA.</p><p>Thing two: After the scan, it removes itself from your computer.  This is not a situation where the application stays on your computer and watches everything you do at all.  It's 100\% temporary.  The only times it will scan are when you re-register your computer.</p><p>Thing three: It doesn't scan or even install the client if you're running *nix.  For a while *nix machines didn't even have to be registered to use the network, but just needed a CMU-owned ID and password to get onto the network.  I don't know if that still applies, though...</p><p>Thing four: I guarantee you that 90\% of CMU's IT department is reading this post and laughing their asses off at the wild inaccuracies presented by this entire thread.</p><p>To close: No, this is not just Big Brother trying to allay your suspicions through falsehood.  These are FACTS and a true explanation of how the system works.  If you don't want to believe me that's fine and dandy, but that doesn't make the contents of this post any less true.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work at CMU 's IT Help Desk , and I want to clarify a few things.Thing one : The CSA does a single scan every time you register your computer ( which , unless you go over quota , shakes out to be the beginning of each semester ) and it checks to see if you have one of our six supported anti-virus/malware/spyware applications ( McAfee , Nortonfail , Trend , Sophos , Kapersky , AVG ) , any P2P applications that are in the ( fairly limited ) list , and latest Windows patches and AV definitions .
Essentially , if the CSA sees that you do n't have correct AV/definitions/security patches , it wo n't let you on - this is to protect the rest of the network.Subtext : Yes , it does scan for P2P applications - however , if it sees them it wo n't block your computer from the network .
It pretty much just says , " hey , do n't pirate kthxbai " and lets you be.Subtext 2 : The result of this scan shows up in our system essentially as a list of all these things and " PASS " or " FAIL " next to it - that allows us to tell people what they need to do to get onto the network if they fail the CSA.Thing two : After the scan , it removes itself from your computer .
This is not a situation where the application stays on your computer and watches everything you do at all .
It 's 100 \ % temporary .
The only times it will scan are when you re-register your computer.Thing three : It does n't scan or even install the client if you 're running * nix .
For a while * nix machines did n't even have to be registered to use the network , but just needed a CMU-owned ID and password to get onto the network .
I do n't know if that still applies , though...Thing four : I guarantee you that 90 \ % of CMU 's IT department is reading this post and laughing their asses off at the wild inaccuracies presented by this entire thread.To close : No , this is not just Big Brother trying to allay your suspicions through falsehood .
These are FACTS and a true explanation of how the system works .
If you do n't want to believe me that 's fine and dandy , but that does n't make the contents of this post any less true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work at CMU's IT Help Desk, and I want to clarify a few things.Thing one: The CSA does a single scan every time you register your computer (which, unless you go over quota, shakes out to be the beginning of each semester) and it checks to see if you have one of our six supported anti-virus/malware/spyware applications (McAfee, Nortonfail, Trend, Sophos, Kapersky, AVG), any P2P applications that are in the (fairly limited) list, and latest Windows patches and AV definitions.
Essentially, if the CSA sees that you don't have correct AV/definitions/security patches, it won't let you on - this is to protect the rest of the network.Subtext: Yes, it does scan for P2P applications - however, if it sees them it won't block your computer from the network.
It pretty much just says, "hey, don't pirate kthxbai" and lets you be.Subtext 2: The result of this scan shows up in our system essentially as a list of all these things and "PASS" or "FAIL" next to it - that allows us to tell people what they need to do to get onto the network if they fail the CSA.Thing two: After the scan, it removes itself from your computer.
This is not a situation where the application stays on your computer and watches everything you do at all.
It's 100\% temporary.
The only times it will scan are when you re-register your computer.Thing three: It doesn't scan or even install the client if you're running *nix.
For a while *nix machines didn't even have to be registered to use the network, but just needed a CMU-owned ID and password to get onto the network.
I don't know if that still applies, though...Thing four: I guarantee you that 90\% of CMU's IT department is reading this post and laughing their asses off at the wild inaccuracies presented by this entire thread.To close: No, this is not just Big Brother trying to allay your suspicions through falsehood.
These are FACTS and a true explanation of how the system works.
If you don't want to believe me that's fine and dandy, but that doesn't make the contents of this post any less true.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234973</id>
	<title>My Solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I was at the University of SC in 2004, they required you to install the Cisco Clean Access software which checked to make sure you were running the school provided AV and had all your windows updates among other things. I hated the school AV (mcafee) because it constantly had false positives on items on my computer and would delete without prompting. It gave no option to quarantine, ignore, etc...just delete. I noticed that if you didn't have the Cisco Clean Access software installed and tried to browse, you were given a web portal login for your school network credentials, very similar to the actual Cisco Win32 software. After logging in you were prompted to download the Cisco software via the web portal along with McAfee and whatever else. I noticed in the school policy that Mac's and Linux clients were exempt. I booted OpenSuse, was greeted by the same web portal, but when I logged in, it told me I had a 7 day lease rather than telling me to download the Cisco crap. I went back to XP, downloaded User Agent Switcher for Firefox and faked my user agent to linux when logging into the web portal. It told me I had a 7 day lease and I was able to switch back my default FF user agent until I was prompted to login 7 days later. User Agent Switcher lets you save presets in a menu so switching is easy. I don't know if your school is setup the same way but you might want to try it. I was really surprised that with all the money and manpower that my school put into implementing all these policies that it was defeated by a first year student with a simple Firefox extension. Good luck, I really do feel your pain.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was at the University of SC in 2004 , they required you to install the Cisco Clean Access software which checked to make sure you were running the school provided AV and had all your windows updates among other things .
I hated the school AV ( mcafee ) because it constantly had false positives on items on my computer and would delete without prompting .
It gave no option to quarantine , ignore , etc...just delete .
I noticed that if you did n't have the Cisco Clean Access software installed and tried to browse , you were given a web portal login for your school network credentials , very similar to the actual Cisco Win32 software .
After logging in you were prompted to download the Cisco software via the web portal along with McAfee and whatever else .
I noticed in the school policy that Mac 's and Linux clients were exempt .
I booted OpenSuse , was greeted by the same web portal , but when I logged in , it told me I had a 7 day lease rather than telling me to download the Cisco crap .
I went back to XP , downloaded User Agent Switcher for Firefox and faked my user agent to linux when logging into the web portal .
It told me I had a 7 day lease and I was able to switch back my default FF user agent until I was prompted to login 7 days later .
User Agent Switcher lets you save presets in a menu so switching is easy .
I do n't know if your school is setup the same way but you might want to try it .
I was really surprised that with all the money and manpower that my school put into implementing all these policies that it was defeated by a first year student with a simple Firefox extension .
Good luck , I really do feel your pain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was at the University of SC in 2004, they required you to install the Cisco Clean Access software which checked to make sure you were running the school provided AV and had all your windows updates among other things.
I hated the school AV (mcafee) because it constantly had false positives on items on my computer and would delete without prompting.
It gave no option to quarantine, ignore, etc...just delete.
I noticed that if you didn't have the Cisco Clean Access software installed and tried to browse, you were given a web portal login for your school network credentials, very similar to the actual Cisco Win32 software.
After logging in you were prompted to download the Cisco software via the web portal along with McAfee and whatever else.
I noticed in the school policy that Mac's and Linux clients were exempt.
I booted OpenSuse, was greeted by the same web portal, but when I logged in, it told me I had a 7 day lease rather than telling me to download the Cisco crap.
I went back to XP, downloaded User Agent Switcher for Firefox and faked my user agent to linux when logging into the web portal.
It told me I had a 7 day lease and I was able to switch back my default FF user agent until I was prompted to login 7 days later.
User Agent Switcher lets you save presets in a menu so switching is easy.
I don't know if your school is setup the same way but you might want to try it.
I was really surprised that with all the money and manpower that my school put into implementing all these policies that it was defeated by a first year student with a simple Firefox extension.
Good luck, I really do feel your pain.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28243651</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244365260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As a result, access to a network connection from your dorm room IS considered a privilege and it CAN be revoked at any time since the university is still providing you with all of the resources you need in order to complete your classes.</p></div><p>Is it? Universities will also have an AUP in force for use of their lab machines too. Then they choose all the soft/mal/spy/*-ware that's installed and watching what you're doing. You may not be able to avoid Agent software.</p><p>At my university, all academic departments are being encouraged to make greater use of the web-based 'Blackboard' services etc. to disseminate course material, assignments, and reports. Two years ago my department started requiring all essays to be submitted electronically for examination by plagarism-detecting software. This means that in order to complete my course I've had to agree to and comply with an AUP which I did not see until after I'd applied to my university and paid my tuition fees.</p><p>How legitimate is an AUP contract agreed to by coercion in this way?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a result , access to a network connection from your dorm room IS considered a privilege and it CAN be revoked at any time since the university is still providing you with all of the resources you need in order to complete your classes.Is it ?
Universities will also have an AUP in force for use of their lab machines too .
Then they choose all the soft/mal/spy/ * -ware that 's installed and watching what you 're doing .
You may not be able to avoid Agent software.At my university , all academic departments are being encouraged to make greater use of the web-based 'Blackboard ' services etc .
to disseminate course material , assignments , and reports .
Two years ago my department started requiring all essays to be submitted electronically for examination by plagarism-detecting software .
This means that in order to complete my course I 've had to agree to and comply with an AUP which I did not see until after I 'd applied to my university and paid my tuition fees.How legitimate is an AUP contract agreed to by coercion in this way ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a result, access to a network connection from your dorm room IS considered a privilege and it CAN be revoked at any time since the university is still providing you with all of the resources you need in order to complete your classes.Is it?
Universities will also have an AUP in force for use of their lab machines too.
Then they choose all the soft/mal/spy/*-ware that's installed and watching what you're doing.
You may not be able to avoid Agent software.At my university, all academic departments are being encouraged to make greater use of the web-based 'Blackboard' services etc.
to disseminate course material, assignments, and reports.
Two years ago my department started requiring all essays to be submitted electronically for examination by plagarism-detecting software.
This means that in order to complete my course I've had to agree to and comply with an AUP which I did not see until after I'd applied to my university and paid my tuition fees.How legitimate is an AUP contract agreed to by coercion in this way?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235885</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236761</id>
	<title>Another solution that hasn't been suggested yet</title>
	<author>nathana</author>
	<datestamp>1244285520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Okay, so it's not ideal, but here's what you can do that doesn't require running a virtual machine on your primary PC, or a dual-boot-into-Windows to run the scanner/authenticator software every once in a while scenario:</p><p>Get yourself a cheap-ass PC.  Throw two ethernet NICs in it.  Install a new copy of Windows XP, and any software that your campus IT staff require to be installed on there.  Then run Windows XP Internet Connection Sharing (ICS) on the unused ethernet adapter.  (ICS is a small DHCP server + NAT engine built into Windows.)  Plug that into a switch along with your main computer or computers, and use the XP box running ICS as your router.</p><p>Then from the university's perspective, you have a single Windows XP box hooked up which is clean and conforms to their standards for network access.  Unless the software that you need to install prohibits ICS from functioning, and there is no way around the artificial restriction, they won't know about the PC or PCs you have running behind the ICS machine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , so it 's not ideal , but here 's what you can do that does n't require running a virtual machine on your primary PC , or a dual-boot-into-Windows to run the scanner/authenticator software every once in a while scenario : Get yourself a cheap-ass PC .
Throw two ethernet NICs in it .
Install a new copy of Windows XP , and any software that your campus IT staff require to be installed on there .
Then run Windows XP Internet Connection Sharing ( ICS ) on the unused ethernet adapter .
( ICS is a small DHCP server + NAT engine built into Windows .
) Plug that into a switch along with your main computer or computers , and use the XP box running ICS as your router.Then from the university 's perspective , you have a single Windows XP box hooked up which is clean and conforms to their standards for network access .
Unless the software that you need to install prohibits ICS from functioning , and there is no way around the artificial restriction , they wo n't know about the PC or PCs you have running behind the ICS machine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, so it's not ideal, but here's what you can do that doesn't require running a virtual machine on your primary PC, or a dual-boot-into-Windows to run the scanner/authenticator software every once in a while scenario:Get yourself a cheap-ass PC.
Throw two ethernet NICs in it.
Install a new copy of Windows XP, and any software that your campus IT staff require to be installed on there.
Then run Windows XP Internet Connection Sharing (ICS) on the unused ethernet adapter.
(ICS is a small DHCP server + NAT engine built into Windows.
)  Plug that into a switch along with your main computer or computers, and use the XP box running ICS as your router.Then from the university's perspective, you have a single Windows XP box hooked up which is clean and conforms to their standards for network access.
Unless the software that you need to install prohibits ICS from functioning, and there is no way around the artificial restriction, they won't know about the PC or PCs you have running behind the ICS machine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</id>
	<title>Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244316840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A different college.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A different college .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A different college.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236047</id>
	<title>Pick A Different School</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244280120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you attend there, you will be explicitly endorsing their institutional policies -- by giving them your money.  You are their customer, and you should not tolerate such ill treatment from them.  Other educational facilities value personal freedom and integrity and can provide an equal or better learning experience.</p><p>Choose a different school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you attend there , you will be explicitly endorsing their institutional policies -- by giving them your money .
You are their customer , and you should not tolerate such ill treatment from them .
Other educational facilities value personal freedom and integrity and can provide an equal or better learning experience.Choose a different school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you attend there, you will be explicitly endorsing their institutional policies -- by giving them your money.
You are their customer, and you should not tolerate such ill treatment from them.
Other educational facilities value personal freedom and integrity and can provide an equal or better learning experience.Choose a different school.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235907</id>
	<title>What's the problem?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244279280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You won't find a school of any size today that doesn't have this type of network policy. When you're connected to a large network, it's the admin's job to make sure that the network functions well for everyone all the time- even if it means losing some features. No one on the network will be monitoring specific emails, web pages, or passwords- they don't have the resources to do so. They monitor overall usage patterns. If your port on their switch transferred 500Gb of data in a month and the normal user transfers 100Gb, then they may ask questions.</p><p>I'm guessing the software the install is similar to Cisco Clean Access. While it's annoying and buggy, its only job is to detect antivirus definitions and windows updates to make sure that less informed users are up to date. Once again, the school doesn't care what you have on your computer- they are simply protecting their network from being brought down by viruses.</p><p>Finally- you're going to college. Concentrate on getting laid instead of bypassing network security. It's much more fulfilling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You wo n't find a school of any size today that does n't have this type of network policy .
When you 're connected to a large network , it 's the admin 's job to make sure that the network functions well for everyone all the time- even if it means losing some features .
No one on the network will be monitoring specific emails , web pages , or passwords- they do n't have the resources to do so .
They monitor overall usage patterns .
If your port on their switch transferred 500Gb of data in a month and the normal user transfers 100Gb , then they may ask questions.I 'm guessing the software the install is similar to Cisco Clean Access .
While it 's annoying and buggy , its only job is to detect antivirus definitions and windows updates to make sure that less informed users are up to date .
Once again , the school does n't care what you have on your computer- they are simply protecting their network from being brought down by viruses.Finally- you 're going to college .
Concentrate on getting laid instead of bypassing network security .
It 's much more fulfilling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You won't find a school of any size today that doesn't have this type of network policy.
When you're connected to a large network, it's the admin's job to make sure that the network functions well for everyone all the time- even if it means losing some features.
No one on the network will be monitoring specific emails, web pages, or passwords- they don't have the resources to do so.
They monitor overall usage patterns.
If your port on their switch transferred 500Gb of data in a month and the normal user transfers 100Gb, then they may ask questions.I'm guessing the software the install is similar to Cisco Clean Access.
While it's annoying and buggy, its only job is to detect antivirus definitions and windows updates to make sure that less informed users are up to date.
Once again, the school doesn't care what you have on your computer- they are simply protecting their network from being brought down by viruses.Finally- you're going to college.
Concentrate on getting laid instead of bypassing network security.
It's much more fulfilling.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28243413</id>
	<title>get over it</title>
	<author>shentino</author>
	<datestamp>1244406540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want to risk having your network access revoked, or worse, getting expelled, be my guest.</p><p>You don't have to let them put crap on your machine.  In turn, they don't have to let you chew up their bandwidth, which, btw, they are willing to let you burn at no charge.  Generous of them isn't it?</p><p>My college blocks outbound DNS and forces you to use their nameserver, which filters out stuff they don't think students should be accessing, like IRC.  I would whine, but then I remember the promise I made when I agreed to the AUP.  I also remember that it's their network and they're the ones who bought all the routers, switches, cables, and are paying for internet access.</p><p>In short, quit your damn whining about it.  IMO, anyone who wants to whine and mope about getting conditional access to free bandwidth is no better than a wardriver looking for hotspots to exploit and that don't give a rip that their "ISP" is the one on the hook for any of their misdeeds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to risk having your network access revoked , or worse , getting expelled , be my guest.You do n't have to let them put crap on your machine .
In turn , they do n't have to let you chew up their bandwidth , which , btw , they are willing to let you burn at no charge .
Generous of them is n't it ? My college blocks outbound DNS and forces you to use their nameserver , which filters out stuff they do n't think students should be accessing , like IRC .
I would whine , but then I remember the promise I made when I agreed to the AUP .
I also remember that it 's their network and they 're the ones who bought all the routers , switches , cables , and are paying for internet access.In short , quit your damn whining about it .
IMO , anyone who wants to whine and mope about getting conditional access to free bandwidth is no better than a wardriver looking for hotspots to exploit and that do n't give a rip that their " ISP " is the one on the hook for any of their misdeeds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to risk having your network access revoked, or worse, getting expelled, be my guest.You don't have to let them put crap on your machine.
In turn, they don't have to let you chew up their bandwidth, which, btw, they are willing to let you burn at no charge.
Generous of them isn't it?My college blocks outbound DNS and forces you to use their nameserver, which filters out stuff they don't think students should be accessing, like IRC.
I would whine, but then I remember the promise I made when I agreed to the AUP.
I also remember that it's their network and they're the ones who bought all the routers, switches, cables, and are paying for internet access.In short, quit your damn whining about it.
IMO, anyone who wants to whine and mope about getting conditional access to free bandwidth is no better than a wardriver looking for hotspots to exploit and that don't give a rip that their "ISP" is the one on the hook for any of their misdeeds.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235105</id>
	<title>We are Bot.NET, Punch our Monkey!</title>
	<author>ae1294</author>
	<datestamp>1244317920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FAKE VR Machine running on same NIC for their RIAA monitoring program and a VPN to your moms house.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FAKE VR Machine running on same NIC for their RIAA monitoring program and a VPN to your moms house .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FAKE VR Machine running on same NIC for their RIAA monitoring program and a VPN to your moms house.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235247</id>
	<title>Perfectly reasonable</title>
	<author>lukas84</author>
	<datestamp>1244318640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Keeping a school network secure is very, very hard.</p><p>NAP solutions, such as Ciscos Clean Access Agent are a good way to ensure that basic security requirements on clients are met. Unfortuantely, if configured incorrectly it's rather easy to circumvent Cisco's stuff if configured wrong - which it is at most schools.</p><p>And then there are the "experts" that don't want to deal with NAP, circumvent it the poorly configured NAP and start spreading viruses.</p><p>Unfortunately, the only way to properly secure such a network is to use NAP in combination with 802.1x and a secure 802.1x authentication mechanism, like EAP-TLS. This can ensure security in a school network.</p><p>Of course there are privacy concerns with NAP solutions, but i don't think the complaints are valid - if you want to use your own computer in school AND the school agrees you to give you access to their network, it should very clearly be on the terms of the school. Otherwise, you can also bring your own internet connection - many laptops have integrated UMTS as an option, and almost all carriers sell UMTS cards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Keeping a school network secure is very , very hard.NAP solutions , such as Ciscos Clean Access Agent are a good way to ensure that basic security requirements on clients are met .
Unfortuantely , if configured incorrectly it 's rather easy to circumvent Cisco 's stuff if configured wrong - which it is at most schools.And then there are the " experts " that do n't want to deal with NAP , circumvent it the poorly configured NAP and start spreading viruses.Unfortunately , the only way to properly secure such a network is to use NAP in combination with 802.1x and a secure 802.1x authentication mechanism , like EAP-TLS .
This can ensure security in a school network.Of course there are privacy concerns with NAP solutions , but i do n't think the complaints are valid - if you want to use your own computer in school AND the school agrees you to give you access to their network , it should very clearly be on the terms of the school .
Otherwise , you can also bring your own internet connection - many laptops have integrated UMTS as an option , and almost all carriers sell UMTS cards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keeping a school network secure is very, very hard.NAP solutions, such as Ciscos Clean Access Agent are a good way to ensure that basic security requirements on clients are met.
Unfortuantely, if configured incorrectly it's rather easy to circumvent Cisco's stuff if configured wrong - which it is at most schools.And then there are the "experts" that don't want to deal with NAP, circumvent it the poorly configured NAP and start spreading viruses.Unfortunately, the only way to properly secure such a network is to use NAP in combination with 802.1x and a secure 802.1x authentication mechanism, like EAP-TLS.
This can ensure security in a school network.Of course there are privacy concerns with NAP solutions, but i don't think the complaints are valid - if you want to use your own computer in school AND the school agrees you to give you access to their network, it should very clearly be on the terms of the school.
Otherwise, you can also bring your own internet connection - many laptops have integrated UMTS as an option, and almost all carriers sell UMTS cards.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236811</id>
	<title>VM, as others have suggested</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244285760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My university requires you to log on via a Cisco VPN client as the only way to access your university account from off campus. Students are expected to install this thing on their private computers, but aren't told that when connected, *all* of your traffic is routed over that VPN.</p><p>I didn't trust the VPN initially so I've always run the thing in a Windows 2000 virtual machine, but when I noticed the way they had their routing set up I sent them an e-mail saying, "This is my personal computer; are you *sure* you want to be handling all my traffic? Including the porn? OK then..."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My university requires you to log on via a Cisco VPN client as the only way to access your university account from off campus .
Students are expected to install this thing on their private computers , but are n't told that when connected , * all * of your traffic is routed over that VPN.I did n't trust the VPN initially so I 've always run the thing in a Windows 2000 virtual machine , but when I noticed the way they had their routing set up I sent them an e-mail saying , " This is my personal computer ; are you * sure * you want to be handling all my traffic ?
Including the porn ?
OK then... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My university requires you to log on via a Cisco VPN client as the only way to access your university account from off campus.
Students are expected to install this thing on their private computers, but aren't told that when connected, *all* of your traffic is routed over that VPN.I didn't trust the VPN initially so I've always run the thing in a Windows 2000 virtual machine, but when I noticed the way they had their routing set up I sent them an e-mail saying, "This is my personal computer; are you *sure* you want to be handling all my traffic?
Including the porn?
OK then..."</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235565</id>
	<title>Crypt Container</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244320380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>        Why not use a crypt container? Alternately you could simply encrypt any files you may feel could embarrass or harm you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not use a crypt container ?
Alternately you could simply encrypt any files you may feel could embarrass or harm you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>        Why not use a crypt container?
Alternately you could simply encrypt any files you may feel could embarrass or harm you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>uvsc\_wolverine</author>
	<datestamp>1244321640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>I'm not sure who provides their CSA, but ours only checks for antivirus, antivirus updates, windows updates, and common P2P programs (usually limewire).</p></div></blockquote><p>So?  I don't care if it makes your dorm room smell like a fresh spring breeze.  If I don't want it, then you have <i>no right</i> to demand that I have it.</p>  </div><p>Actually...they do.  Most Universities (like the one I work for) have an acceptable use policy.  Agreement to the acceptable use policy is part of the school giving you permission to use THEIR network resources.  You may have paid tuition, but the school's network does not belong to you.  It belongs to the school, and if the school's policy says that you have to have a screensaver featuring fluffy bunnies in order to access their network then tough shit if you don't like fluffy bunnies.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>If you were a private company, then maybe I can understand, it's your network, you have the right to set the rules.</p></div><p>Ok.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Even if you're a private university, though, I most certainly do <i>not</i> understand, because again, MY tuition and fees pay for that network, and Internet access is pretty much required to complete just about any degree these days.  Deny it, and you might as well tell a student that he can't have any textbooks.</p></div><p>If you don't like it they can admit someone else.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Not to mention that it sounds like you've fallen into the same trap that the RIAA/MPAA has fallen into.  "Because some people use Limewire for illegal purposes, since you have it installed, you <i>must</i> be using it for illegal purposes."  Sorry bub, but the whole "guilty until proven innocent" thing doesn't fly very well with me.</p></div><p>I do agree with you here.  At the university I'm at we don't do the "guilty until proven innocent" thing.  We got a little more proactive and setup a layer 7 firewall on our network that blocks all P2P traffic.  Of course there are ways around it via VPNs and proxies, but the installation of that firewall resulted in about a 60\% reduction in our network resources and an overall speed increase for the entire campus (we have about 3000 employees and 25000 students). </p><p><div class="quote"><p>If you have some reasonable suspicion based on tangible evidence that my machine is spewing out malware or otherwise violating policies designed to protect the university or its network, then by all means, shut off it's connection, show me what you've got, and we'll deal with it like adults.</p></div><p>We do this in addition to the Security agent scans checking for current anti-virus and Windows updates (Mac, Linux, and wi-fi based cell phones are automatically exempt).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I wouldn't want my machine, if infected, to convey malware any more than you do.  If you want to make such a "Client Security Agent" available for me to use, then thanks, I'll consider it.</p><p>But again, it is <i>my machine</i>, and it is <i>my money</i> that is paying for that Internet connection.</p></div><p>Yep, and thank you for your money.  It is being used to pay for OUR network and OUR Internet connection.  If YOU want to use YOUR machine on OUR wireless network (that we have graciously provided you with - we don't have to give you an Internet connection) you'd damn well better install the security agent or you can wait in line to use a computer lab where some idiot making $9.00/hour from your tuition (thank you again) can watch everything you're doing on that computer.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me.  "You <i>might</i> get infected or break copyright law" is <i>not</i> a valid excuse.</p></div><p>Actually it is a privilege you've been given for free even though you paid tuition and student fees.  I can only speak for the institution where I am employed (and not it's not the one mentioned in my<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. name, I've had this UID forever), but if you look at the breakdown of your student fees and tuition - NONE of that says Internet access.  We do charge a $20 per semester lab access fee (to cover the cost of maintaining the computers) which you can get refunded if you sign a statement that you will not use the open labs - and we disable your login account to keep you honest.</p><p>My experience with this type of security software has been at a publicly funded university where the MAJORITY of our funding comes from the state.  Student tuition covers less than a third of our costs.  The tuition paid by the students doesn't even cover the faculty's salaries, much less any of our IT infrastructure.  Most of our infrastructure costs are paid for by state funding.</p><p>As far as private schools go...guess what?  They're private and they can do whatever they damn well please.  At a state school we have certain state laws that we have to comply with that DO affect our IT policies.  As long as a private school does nothing illegal they can set whatever requirements they want for their Internet access.  You may have paid for it, but that doesn't mean that it belongs to you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure who provides their CSA , but ours only checks for antivirus , antivirus updates , windows updates , and common P2P programs ( usually limewire ) .So ?
I do n't care if it makes your dorm room smell like a fresh spring breeze .
If I do n't want it , then you have no right to demand that I have it .
Actually...they do .
Most Universities ( like the one I work for ) have an acceptable use policy .
Agreement to the acceptable use policy is part of the school giving you permission to use THEIR network resources .
You may have paid tuition , but the school 's network does not belong to you .
It belongs to the school , and if the school 's policy says that you have to have a screensaver featuring fluffy bunnies in order to access their network then tough shit if you do n't like fluffy bunnies.If you were a private company , then maybe I can understand , it 's your network , you have the right to set the rules.Ok.Even if you 're a private university , though , I most certainly do not understand , because again , MY tuition and fees pay for that network , and Internet access is pretty much required to complete just about any degree these days .
Deny it , and you might as well tell a student that he ca n't have any textbooks.If you do n't like it they can admit someone else.Not to mention that it sounds like you 've fallen into the same trap that the RIAA/MPAA has fallen into .
" Because some people use Limewire for illegal purposes , since you have it installed , you must be using it for illegal purposes .
" Sorry bub , but the whole " guilty until proven innocent " thing does n't fly very well with me.I do agree with you here .
At the university I 'm at we do n't do the " guilty until proven innocent " thing .
We got a little more proactive and setup a layer 7 firewall on our network that blocks all P2P traffic .
Of course there are ways around it via VPNs and proxies , but the installation of that firewall resulted in about a 60 \ % reduction in our network resources and an overall speed increase for the entire campus ( we have about 3000 employees and 25000 students ) .
If you have some reasonable suspicion based on tangible evidence that my machine is spewing out malware or otherwise violating policies designed to protect the university or its network , then by all means , shut off it 's connection , show me what you 've got , and we 'll deal with it like adults.We do this in addition to the Security agent scans checking for current anti-virus and Windows updates ( Mac , Linux , and wi-fi based cell phones are automatically exempt ) .I would n't want my machine , if infected , to convey malware any more than you do .
If you want to make such a " Client Security Agent " available for me to use , then thanks , I 'll consider it.But again , it is my machine , and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection.Yep , and thank you for your money .
It is being used to pay for OUR network and OUR Internet connection .
If YOU want to use YOUR machine on OUR wireless network ( that we have graciously provided you with - we do n't have to give you an Internet connection ) you 'd damn well better install the security agent or you can wait in line to use a computer lab where some idiot making $ 9.00/hour from your tuition ( thank you again ) can watch everything you 're doing on that computer.Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free , it is a paid-for service , and you 'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me .
" You might get infected or break copyright law " is not a valid excuse.Actually it is a privilege you 've been given for free even though you paid tuition and student fees .
I can only speak for the institution where I am employed ( and not it 's not the one mentioned in my / .
name , I 've had this UID forever ) , but if you look at the breakdown of your student fees and tuition - NONE of that says Internet access .
We do charge a $ 20 per semester lab access fee ( to cover the cost of maintaining the computers ) which you can get refunded if you sign a statement that you will not use the open labs - and we disable your login account to keep you honest.My experience with this type of security software has been at a publicly funded university where the MAJORITY of our funding comes from the state .
Student tuition covers less than a third of our costs .
The tuition paid by the students does n't even cover the faculty 's salaries , much less any of our IT infrastructure .
Most of our infrastructure costs are paid for by state funding.As far as private schools go...guess what ?
They 're private and they can do whatever they damn well please .
At a state school we have certain state laws that we have to comply with that DO affect our IT policies .
As long as a private school does nothing illegal they can set whatever requirements they want for their Internet access .
You may have paid for it , but that does n't mean that it belongs to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure who provides their CSA, but ours only checks for antivirus, antivirus updates, windows updates, and common P2P programs (usually limewire).So?
I don't care if it makes your dorm room smell like a fresh spring breeze.
If I don't want it, then you have no right to demand that I have it.
Actually...they do.
Most Universities (like the one I work for) have an acceptable use policy.
Agreement to the acceptable use policy is part of the school giving you permission to use THEIR network resources.
You may have paid tuition, but the school's network does not belong to you.
It belongs to the school, and if the school's policy says that you have to have a screensaver featuring fluffy bunnies in order to access their network then tough shit if you don't like fluffy bunnies.If you were a private company, then maybe I can understand, it's your network, you have the right to set the rules.Ok.Even if you're a private university, though, I most certainly do not understand, because again, MY tuition and fees pay for that network, and Internet access is pretty much required to complete just about any degree these days.
Deny it, and you might as well tell a student that he can't have any textbooks.If you don't like it they can admit someone else.Not to mention that it sounds like you've fallen into the same trap that the RIAA/MPAA has fallen into.
"Because some people use Limewire for illegal purposes, since you have it installed, you must be using it for illegal purposes.
"  Sorry bub, but the whole "guilty until proven innocent" thing doesn't fly very well with me.I do agree with you here.
At the university I'm at we don't do the "guilty until proven innocent" thing.
We got a little more proactive and setup a layer 7 firewall on our network that blocks all P2P traffic.
Of course there are ways around it via VPNs and proxies, but the installation of that firewall resulted in about a 60\% reduction in our network resources and an overall speed increase for the entire campus (we have about 3000 employees and 25000 students).
If you have some reasonable suspicion based on tangible evidence that my machine is spewing out malware or otherwise violating policies designed to protect the university or its network, then by all means, shut off it's connection, show me what you've got, and we'll deal with it like adults.We do this in addition to the Security agent scans checking for current anti-virus and Windows updates (Mac, Linux, and wi-fi based cell phones are automatically exempt).I wouldn't want my machine, if infected, to convey malware any more than you do.
If you want to make such a "Client Security Agent" available for me to use, then thanks, I'll consider it.But again, it is my machine, and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection.Yep, and thank you for your money.
It is being used to pay for OUR network and OUR Internet connection.
If YOU want to use YOUR machine on OUR wireless network (that we have graciously provided you with - we don't have to give you an Internet connection) you'd damn well better install the security agent or you can wait in line to use a computer lab where some idiot making $9.00/hour from your tuition (thank you again) can watch everything you're doing on that computer.Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me.
"You might get infected or break copyright law" is not a valid excuse.Actually it is a privilege you've been given for free even though you paid tuition and student fees.
I can only speak for the institution where I am employed (and not it's not the one mentioned in my /.
name, I've had this UID forever), but if you look at the breakdown of your student fees and tuition - NONE of that says Internet access.
We do charge a $20 per semester lab access fee (to cover the cost of maintaining the computers) which you can get refunded if you sign a statement that you will not use the open labs - and we disable your login account to keep you honest.My experience with this type of security software has been at a publicly funded university where the MAJORITY of our funding comes from the state.
Student tuition covers less than a third of our costs.
The tuition paid by the students doesn't even cover the faculty's salaries, much less any of our IT infrastructure.
Most of our infrastructure costs are paid for by state funding.As far as private schools go...guess what?
They're private and they can do whatever they damn well please.
At a state school we have certain state laws that we have to comply with that DO affect our IT policies.
As long as a private school does nothing illegal they can set whatever requirements they want for their Internet access.
You may have paid for it, but that doesn't mean that it belongs to you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237039</id>
	<title>It's the professors who can make the difference</title>
	<author>SuperCharlie</author>
	<datestamp>1244288100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I worked at a University in the support division, not networking. The key to making anything happen is to get the professors ticked enough to make waves. Find a nice high profile professor and make him understand what that little "Security Agent" means, such as, nothing on that computer will be private, and you may have a chance of killing it. The tech support at a University could not care less about you, you are gone in 2-6 years. They will be there forever.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I worked at a University in the support division , not networking .
The key to making anything happen is to get the professors ticked enough to make waves .
Find a nice high profile professor and make him understand what that little " Security Agent " means , such as , nothing on that computer will be private , and you may have a chance of killing it .
The tech support at a University could not care less about you , you are gone in 2-6 years .
They will be there forever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worked at a University in the support division, not networking.
The key to making anything happen is to get the professors ticked enough to make waves.
Find a nice high profile professor and make him understand what that little "Security Agent" means, such as, nothing on that computer will be private, and you may have a chance of killing it.
The tech support at a University could not care less about you, you are gone in 2-6 years.
They will be there forever.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237235</id>
	<title>So what?</title>
	<author>Zaphod-AVA</author>
	<datestamp>1244290080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are all getting your knickers in a twist over nothing.</p><p>The client (assuming it's similar to the Cisco Clean Access Client I'm familiar with) simply checks that Windows machines are patched and running up-to-date antivirus. Remember Blaster? That thing ate college networks. Since then network policies have gotten a bit stricter. If you read them, they are trying to protect you, and cover their own ass.</p><p>The short version of the policy: Don't do anything illegal. Run this stuff so we can make sure the network stays virus free. Don't be a jerk. If you break these, we can kick you off our network.</p><p>If you are seriously concerned about it you are paranoid. Paranoid people should grab a cheap netbook and use that on the school network, and keep your precious personal data on a different machine. Any of that Nat/VM/router shenanigans others have suggested is violating their policies, and risking problems on their network that those policies are crafted to avoid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are all getting your knickers in a twist over nothing.The client ( assuming it 's similar to the Cisco Clean Access Client I 'm familiar with ) simply checks that Windows machines are patched and running up-to-date antivirus .
Remember Blaster ?
That thing ate college networks .
Since then network policies have gotten a bit stricter .
If you read them , they are trying to protect you , and cover their own ass.The short version of the policy : Do n't do anything illegal .
Run this stuff so we can make sure the network stays virus free .
Do n't be a jerk .
If you break these , we can kick you off our network.If you are seriously concerned about it you are paranoid .
Paranoid people should grab a cheap netbook and use that on the school network , and keep your precious personal data on a different machine .
Any of that Nat/VM/router shenanigans others have suggested is violating their policies , and risking problems on their network that those policies are crafted to avoid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are all getting your knickers in a twist over nothing.The client (assuming it's similar to the Cisco Clean Access Client I'm familiar with) simply checks that Windows machines are patched and running up-to-date antivirus.
Remember Blaster?
That thing ate college networks.
Since then network policies have gotten a bit stricter.
If you read them, they are trying to protect you, and cover their own ass.The short version of the policy: Don't do anything illegal.
Run this stuff so we can make sure the network stays virus free.
Don't be a jerk.
If you break these, we can kick you off our network.If you are seriously concerned about it you are paranoid.
Paranoid people should grab a cheap netbook and use that on the school network, and keep your precious personal data on a different machine.
Any of that Nat/VM/router shenanigans others have suggested is violating their policies, and risking problems on their network that those policies are crafted to avoid.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237131</id>
	<title>Don't be so paranoid...</title>
	<author>Simulant</author>
	<datestamp>1244288940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>a) They probably aren't out to get you.  They appear to be taking mostly reasonable steps to protect their network and your PC. The written policies are a CYA thing.  It does not mean they are sniffing your online activity, scanning your PC's drives for pirated software, or logging keystrokes.  A manadatory program to ensure PCs are patched and have up-to-date malware protection IS NOT THAT UNREASONABLE and there is no reason to suspect it's doing more than that.   (get some CS majors to verify this if you are truly scared).  Better yet, make friends with the IT dept.</p><p>b) Don't expect the freedom to download terabytes of porn &amp; warez using your university's bandwith.  I'd call that unreasonable.</p><p>c) Most companies you'll end up working for after college will have similar policies,  get used to it.</p><p>d) There is ALWAYS a way around these things, and plenty of ways to protect your privacy. Figure it out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>a ) They probably are n't out to get you .
They appear to be taking mostly reasonable steps to protect their network and your PC .
The written policies are a CYA thing .
It does not mean they are sniffing your online activity , scanning your PC 's drives for pirated software , or logging keystrokes .
A manadatory program to ensure PCs are patched and have up-to-date malware protection IS NOT THAT UNREASONABLE and there is no reason to suspect it 's doing more than that .
( get some CS majors to verify this if you are truly scared ) .
Better yet , make friends with the IT dept.b ) Do n't expect the freedom to download terabytes of porn &amp; warez using your university 's bandwith .
I 'd call that unreasonable.c ) Most companies you 'll end up working for after college will have similar policies , get used to it.d ) There is ALWAYS a way around these things , and plenty of ways to protect your privacy .
Figure it out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a) They probably aren't out to get you.
They appear to be taking mostly reasonable steps to protect their network and your PC.
The written policies are a CYA thing.
It does not mean they are sniffing your online activity, scanning your PC's drives for pirated software, or logging keystrokes.
A manadatory program to ensure PCs are patched and have up-to-date malware protection IS NOT THAT UNREASONABLE and there is no reason to suspect it's doing more than that.
(get some CS majors to verify this if you are truly scared).
Better yet, make friends with the IT dept.b) Don't expect the freedom to download terabytes of porn &amp; warez using your university's bandwith.
I'd call that unreasonable.c) Most companies you'll end up working for after college will have similar policies,  get used to it.d) There is ALWAYS a way around these things, and plenty of ways to protect your privacy.
Figure it out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239005</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>BronsCon</author>
	<datestamp>1244308380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ask how many students' tuition go toward paying the jerkwad who instituted the policy. Round up that many students, plus yourself; all of you write letters to said jerkwad stating that you will no longer be attending this university if this policy is not changed. Forward copies of these letters to the dean; when he sees that this jerkwad is costing the uni more than twice his salary, he'll be faced with a "fix it or fuck off" proposition.</p><p>This is how things get done. Make him realize that you pay his salary and show him that his policy is going to cause the loss of said salary.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ask how many students ' tuition go toward paying the jerkwad who instituted the policy .
Round up that many students , plus yourself ; all of you write letters to said jerkwad stating that you will no longer be attending this university if this policy is not changed .
Forward copies of these letters to the dean ; when he sees that this jerkwad is costing the uni more than twice his salary , he 'll be faced with a " fix it or fuck off " proposition.This is how things get done .
Make him realize that you pay his salary and show him that his policy is going to cause the loss of said salary .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ask how many students' tuition go toward paying the jerkwad who instituted the policy.
Round up that many students, plus yourself; all of you write letters to said jerkwad stating that you will no longer be attending this university if this policy is not changed.
Forward copies of these letters to the dean; when he sees that this jerkwad is costing the uni more than twice his salary, he'll be faced with a "fix it or fuck off" proposition.This is how things get done.
Make him realize that you pay his salary and show him that his policy is going to cause the loss of said salary.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234923</id>
	<title>I've faced this same issue</title>
	<author>reeeh2000</author>
	<datestamp>1244317140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>What I found to be the best solution is to run Linux.  My campus required Cisco clean access agent and service pack 2 to use windows on the network.  I wasn't required to as Linux is allowed to connect without these.  As for other concerns I would suggest setting up a encrypted proxy server at home then connecting through it.  This will also allow for torrenting and PvP file sharing as this is often blocked on campus.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I found to be the best solution is to run Linux .
My campus required Cisco clean access agent and service pack 2 to use windows on the network .
I was n't required to as Linux is allowed to connect without these .
As for other concerns I would suggest setting up a encrypted proxy server at home then connecting through it .
This will also allow for torrenting and PvP file sharing as this is often blocked on campus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I found to be the best solution is to run Linux.
My campus required Cisco clean access agent and service pack 2 to use windows on the network.
I wasn't required to as Linux is allowed to connect without these.
As for other concerns I would suggest setting up a encrypted proxy server at home then connecting through it.
This will also allow for torrenting and PvP file sharing as this is often blocked on campus.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235923</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>thatskinnyguy</author>
	<datestamp>1244279400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The responsibility of the Network Admin is to keep the network safe from it's #1 threat: the user.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The responsibility of the Network Admin is to keep the network safe from it 's # 1 threat : the user .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The responsibility of the Network Admin is to keep the network safe from it's #1 threat: the user.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234981</id>
	<title>Re:Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tell them they are noobs, and you pwn noobs like them for breakfast.<br>Tell them their policy is bad and they should feel bad. Then Player-kill them in war craft.</p><p>They will change the policy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tell them they are noobs , and you pwn noobs like them for breakfast.Tell them their policy is bad and they should feel bad .
Then Player-kill them in war craft.They will change the policy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tell them they are noobs, and you pwn noobs like them for breakfast.Tell them their policy is bad and they should feel bad.
Then Player-kill them in war craft.They will change the policy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234883</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237587</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244293440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If they do not have explicit control of their network, they are doing it wrong.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they do not have explicit control of their network , they are doing it wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they do not have explicit control of their network, they are doing it wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235885</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239755</id>
	<title>SSH dynamic routing, university servers+FoxyProxy</title>
	<author>Menkhaf</author>
	<datestamp>1244407080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, you could always do like me. I use autossh together with SSH key authentication to route data from a specific port at a server I always have access to, to my desktop computer at home.<br><tt>ssh -R 2222:localhost:22 ssh.at.university.tld</tt> does exactly that.</p><p>From my laptop (or whatever computer I'm using), I do the opposite, route a port from the university server to my laptop:<br><tt>ssh -TNf -L 2222:localhost:2222 ssh.at.university.tld</tt><br>There are a lot of SSH flags, so there's plenty of things to play with. Compression is awesome when I'm taking the train and surfing using GRPS. On 9.6 KBps it feels like 1996 again, though.</p><p>After that, I use my tunnel to set up SSH with dynamic routing:<br><tt>ssh -NfD 8080 ssh.at.university.tld 2&gt;&amp;1<br>ssh -NfD 8081 -p 2222 localhost 2&gt;&amp;1</tt></p><p>In Firefox I use FoxyProxy to easily switch between the two proxies, and what this setup I can pretty much switch seamlessly between 3 proxies.</p><p>Of course, it helps that I'm usually connected to the internet through the university connection and that my home desktop is on a 100 Mbps connected -- part of the research network here.</p><p>Here is the relevant snippet from the SSH man page:</p><blockquote><div><p>-D [bind\_address:]port<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Specifies a local &#226;oedynamic&#226; application-level port forwarding.  This works by allocating a socket to listen to port on the local side, optionally bound to the specified bind\_address.  Whenever a connection is made to this port, the connection is forwarded over the secure channel, and the application protocol is then used to determine where to connect to from the remote machine.  Currently the SOCKS4 and SOCKS5 protocols are supported, and ssh will act as a SOCKS server.  Only root can forward privileged ports.  Dynamic port forwardings can also be specified in the configuration file.</p></div></blockquote><p>While I'm here:<br><tt><br>+----------+<br>| Fix Your |<br>| Fuckin'<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.|<br>| Code<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....|<br>+----------+<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; |..|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; |..|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; |..|..<br></tt><br>Come on Slashdot. Your page looks like ass. No unicode support. Lame.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , you could always do like me .
I use autossh together with SSH key authentication to route data from a specific port at a server I always have access to , to my desktop computer at home.ssh -R 2222 : localhost : 22 ssh.at.university.tld does exactly that.From my laptop ( or whatever computer I 'm using ) , I do the opposite , route a port from the university server to my laptop : ssh -TNf -L 2222 : localhost : 2222 ssh.at.university.tldThere are a lot of SSH flags , so there 's plenty of things to play with .
Compression is awesome when I 'm taking the train and surfing using GRPS .
On 9.6 KBps it feels like 1996 again , though.After that , I use my tunnel to set up SSH with dynamic routing : ssh -NfD 8080 ssh.at.university.tld 2 &gt; &amp;1ssh -NfD 8081 -p 2222 localhost 2 &gt; &amp;1In Firefox I use FoxyProxy to easily switch between the two proxies , and what this setup I can pretty much switch seamlessly between 3 proxies.Of course , it helps that I 'm usually connected to the internet through the university connection and that my home desktop is on a 100 Mbps connected -- part of the research network here.Here is the relevant snippet from the SSH man page : -D [ bind \ _address : ] port                           Specifies a local   oedynamic   application-level port forwarding .
This works by allocating a socket to listen to port on the local side , optionally bound to the specified bind \ _address .
Whenever a connection is made to this port , the connection is forwarded over the secure channel , and the application protocol is then used to determine where to connect to from the remote machine .
Currently the SOCKS4 and SOCKS5 protocols are supported , and ssh will act as a SOCKS server .
Only root can forward privileged ports .
Dynamic port forwardings can also be specified in the configuration file.While I 'm here : + ---------- + | Fix Your | | Fuckin ' . | | Code .... | + ---------- +     | .. |     | .. |     | .. | ..Come on Slashdot .
Your page looks like ass .
No unicode support .
Lame .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, you could always do like me.
I use autossh together with SSH key authentication to route data from a specific port at a server I always have access to, to my desktop computer at home.ssh -R 2222:localhost:22 ssh.at.university.tld does exactly that.From my laptop (or whatever computer I'm using), I do the opposite, route a port from the university server to my laptop:ssh -TNf -L 2222:localhost:2222 ssh.at.university.tldThere are a lot of SSH flags, so there's plenty of things to play with.
Compression is awesome when I'm taking the train and surfing using GRPS.
On 9.6 KBps it feels like 1996 again, though.After that, I use my tunnel to set up SSH with dynamic routing:ssh -NfD 8080 ssh.at.university.tld 2&gt;&amp;1ssh -NfD 8081 -p 2222 localhost 2&gt;&amp;1In Firefox I use FoxyProxy to easily switch between the two proxies, and what this setup I can pretty much switch seamlessly between 3 proxies.Of course, it helps that I'm usually connected to the internet through the university connection and that my home desktop is on a 100 Mbps connected -- part of the research network here.Here is the relevant snippet from the SSH man page:-D [bind\_address:]port
                          Specifies a local âoedynamicâ application-level port forwarding.
This works by allocating a socket to listen to port on the local side, optionally bound to the specified bind\_address.
Whenever a connection is made to this port, the connection is forwarded over the secure channel, and the application protocol is then used to determine where to connect to from the remote machine.
Currently the SOCKS4 and SOCKS5 protocols are supported, and ssh will act as a SOCKS server.
Only root can forward privileged ports.
Dynamic port forwardings can also be specified in the configuration file.While I'm here:+----------+| Fix Your || Fuckin' .|| Code ....|+----------+
    |..|
    |..|
    |..|..Come on Slashdot.
Your page looks like ass.
No unicode support.
Lame.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28264717</id>
	<title>Re:entrepreneur</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244558220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The guy is not very smart as the City that the University is in has two wireless broadband company's.  One started 1-2 years ago and the other has been in the town for well over 6 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The guy is not very smart as the City that the University is in has two wireless broadband company 's .
One started 1-2 years ago and the other has been in the town for well over 6 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The guy is not very smart as the City that the University is in has two wireless broadband company's.
One started 1-2 years ago and the other has been in the town for well over 6 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234995</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238677</id>
	<title>Other solutions?</title>
	<author>mu51c10rd</author>
	<datestamp>1244304420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Considering the many posts saying the CSA is a bad idea, it raises a question. The fact that students get their Windows machines infected with every virus, trojan, and rootkit imaginable, how else shouls IT departments handle it? In the corporate world, it seems easier. However, a network of user-controller machines sounds like an administrative nightmare. For those who think the CSA is a bad idea, what are your alternatives?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering the many posts saying the CSA is a bad idea , it raises a question .
The fact that students get their Windows machines infected with every virus , trojan , and rootkit imaginable , how else shouls IT departments handle it ?
In the corporate world , it seems easier .
However , a network of user-controller machines sounds like an administrative nightmare .
For those who think the CSA is a bad idea , what are your alternatives ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering the many posts saying the CSA is a bad idea, it raises a question.
The fact that students get their Windows machines infected with every virus, trojan, and rootkit imaginable, how else shouls IT departments handle it?
In the corporate world, it seems easier.
However, a network of user-controller machines sounds like an administrative nightmare.
For those who think the CSA is a bad idea, what are your alternatives?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235221</id>
	<title>Most Colleges Have This Problem...</title>
	<author>pankajmay</author>
	<datestamp>1244318580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most colleges (including mine) implement a similar solution - asking a user to download a program to give network access for Windows especially. And don't even get me started on that bloatware McAfee.<br><br>Don't simply discard your college because of the network policy - choose it/discard it based on the quality of programs it offers.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)<br><br>You have many excellent options to choose from above. Personally with powerful computers and oodles of RAM, I choose to run a thin layer of Linux and Virtualize Windows within it. However it may not be the most desirable situation on a laptop if Windows IS your primary OS.<br><br>However, in my opinion, whatever you decide to implement - it is important that you bring up the privacy issue with the IT department of your school. Someone needs to raise that issue emphatically. If they give you a written assurance of your privacy and later you discover that in fact it is not true, you can always sue them!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most colleges ( including mine ) implement a similar solution - asking a user to download a program to give network access for Windows especially .
And do n't even get me started on that bloatware McAfee.Do n't simply discard your college because of the network policy - choose it/discard it based on the quality of programs it offers .
: - ) You have many excellent options to choose from above .
Personally with powerful computers and oodles of RAM , I choose to run a thin layer of Linux and Virtualize Windows within it .
However it may not be the most desirable situation on a laptop if Windows IS your primary OS.However , in my opinion , whatever you decide to implement - it is important that you bring up the privacy issue with the IT department of your school .
Someone needs to raise that issue emphatically .
If they give you a written assurance of your privacy and later you discover that in fact it is not true , you can always sue them !
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most colleges (including mine) implement a similar solution - asking a user to download a program to give network access for Windows especially.
And don't even get me started on that bloatware McAfee.Don't simply discard your college because of the network policy - choose it/discard it based on the quality of programs it offers.
:-)You have many excellent options to choose from above.
Personally with powerful computers and oodles of RAM, I choose to run a thin layer of Linux and Virtualize Windows within it.
However it may not be the most desirable situation on a laptop if Windows IS your primary OS.However, in my opinion, whatever you decide to implement - it is important that you bring up the privacy issue with the IT department of your school.
Someone needs to raise that issue emphatically.
If they give you a written assurance of your privacy and later you discover that in fact it is not true, you can always sue them!
;-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235763</id>
	<title>Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Khyber</author>
	<datestamp>1244321640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bill them for the usage of your resources. I did that when my fiance took my laptop to his University and they installed similar software on the machine. Easiest thousand dollars I ever made.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bill them for the usage of your resources .
I did that when my fiance took my laptop to his University and they installed similar software on the machine .
Easiest thousand dollars I ever made .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bill them for the usage of your resources.
I did that when my fiance took my laptop to his University and they installed similar software on the machine.
Easiest thousand dollars I ever made.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235273</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>gavron</author>
	<datestamp>1244318820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Very accurate.  Should be "5 interesting".   Of course<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. rewards argumentative counterculture copycats and lemmings... not anyone who actually tells it like it is.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Very accurate .
Should be " 5 interesting " .
Of course / .
rewards argumentative counterculture copycats and lemmings... not anyone who actually tells it like it is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very accurate.
Should be "5 interesting".
Of course /.
rewards argumentative counterculture copycats and lemmings... not anyone who actually tells it like it is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235885</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anubis IV</author>
	<datestamp>1244279100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>At least at my university (about 45K students), they get around the privilege vs. requirement thing by providing ample labs that anyone can use with all of the software that is necessary for your classes.  As a result, access to a network connection from your dorm room IS considered a privilege and it CAN be revoked at any time since the university is still providing you with all of the resources you need in order to complete your classes.  Granted, they may not be nearly as convenient, but they're what you need.
<br>
<br>
So, I would argue that they do, in fact, have every right to require it of you.  You're using their network in a way that they don't have explicit control over, when they are providing you otherwise with the necessary resources for your classes.  Sounds like a privilege to me, and if you want to use it, you need to play by their rules.  Not that I personally like that idea, of course, but it's what I see as being the reality of the situation.
<br>
<br>
Also, at least at my school, the CSA came into place very shortly after one of those major worm outbreaks in 2002 or 2003.  I remember hearing that around 95\% of the network traffic was being generated by the worm, and that the entire university was basically suffering the effects of a DoS attack for the better part of a month since very few of the students' PCs were protected by proper AV and anti-malware software at that time.  From then on, practicality alone dictated that they forced the students to install AV software and that they routinely ensure that it's still there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least at my university ( about 45K students ) , they get around the privilege vs. requirement thing by providing ample labs that anyone can use with all of the software that is necessary for your classes .
As a result , access to a network connection from your dorm room IS considered a privilege and it CAN be revoked at any time since the university is still providing you with all of the resources you need in order to complete your classes .
Granted , they may not be nearly as convenient , but they 're what you need .
So , I would argue that they do , in fact , have every right to require it of you .
You 're using their network in a way that they do n't have explicit control over , when they are providing you otherwise with the necessary resources for your classes .
Sounds like a privilege to me , and if you want to use it , you need to play by their rules .
Not that I personally like that idea , of course , but it 's what I see as being the reality of the situation .
Also , at least at my school , the CSA came into place very shortly after one of those major worm outbreaks in 2002 or 2003 .
I remember hearing that around 95 \ % of the network traffic was being generated by the worm , and that the entire university was basically suffering the effects of a DoS attack for the better part of a month since very few of the students ' PCs were protected by proper AV and anti-malware software at that time .
From then on , practicality alone dictated that they forced the students to install AV software and that they routinely ensure that it 's still there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least at my university (about 45K students), they get around the privilege vs. requirement thing by providing ample labs that anyone can use with all of the software that is necessary for your classes.
As a result, access to a network connection from your dorm room IS considered a privilege and it CAN be revoked at any time since the university is still providing you with all of the resources you need in order to complete your classes.
Granted, they may not be nearly as convenient, but they're what you need.
So, I would argue that they do, in fact, have every right to require it of you.
You're using their network in a way that they don't have explicit control over, when they are providing you otherwise with the necessary resources for your classes.
Sounds like a privilege to me, and if you want to use it, you need to play by their rules.
Not that I personally like that idea, of course, but it's what I see as being the reality of the situation.
Also, at least at my school, the CSA came into place very shortly after one of those major worm outbreaks in 2002 or 2003.
I remember hearing that around 95\% of the network traffic was being generated by the worm, and that the entire university was basically suffering the effects of a DoS attack for the better part of a month since very few of the students' PCs were protected by proper AV and anti-malware software at that time.
From then on, practicality alone dictated that they forced the students to install AV software and that they routinely ensure that it's still there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28250609</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244473980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>But again, it is <i>my machine</i>, and it is <i>my money</i> that is paying for that Internet connection.  Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me.  "You <i>might</i> get infected or break copyright law" is <i>not</i> a valid excuse.</i> </p></div><p>Dude, your money only pays for a very small part of the school's network.  Do you think they should let you piss in the university president's office because it is <i>your penis</i>, and it is <i>your money</i> that pays for that office?  These measures are designed to prevent the school from getting sued and to prevent network users from spreading viruses to other users.  It is <i>their</i> network, and they can require you to meet some basic security requirements if you want to use the network.</p></div><p>Sport,  You only get access to a limited part of a schools network.  You do not have the option to not pay to put your penis in the presidents orifice.  Colleges are businesses and are run like mining camps, they lack open competition on individual services, suckers.  Hopefully, you get a bit smarter when you leave.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But again , it is my machine , and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection .
Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free , it is a paid-for service , and you 'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me .
" You might get infected or break copyright law " is not a valid excuse .
Dude , your money only pays for a very small part of the school 's network .
Do you think they should let you piss in the university president 's office because it is your penis , and it is your money that pays for that office ?
These measures are designed to prevent the school from getting sued and to prevent network users from spreading viruses to other users .
It is their network , and they can require you to meet some basic security requirements if you want to use the network.Sport , You only get access to a limited part of a schools network .
You do not have the option to not pay to put your penis in the presidents orifice .
Colleges are businesses and are run like mining camps , they lack open competition on individual services , suckers .
Hopefully , you get a bit smarter when you leave .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> But again, it is my machine, and it is my money that is paying for that Internet connection.
Accessing it is not a privilege that the university has graciously given to me for free, it is a paid-for service, and you'd better have a damn good reason for taking my money and then denying it to me.
"You might get infected or break copyright law" is not a valid excuse.
Dude, your money only pays for a very small part of the school's network.
Do you think they should let you piss in the university president's office because it is your penis, and it is your money that pays for that office?
These measures are designed to prevent the school from getting sued and to prevent network users from spreading viruses to other users.
It is their network, and they can require you to meet some basic security requirements if you want to use the network.Sport,  You only get access to a limited part of a schools network.
You do not have the option to not pay to put your penis in the presidents orifice.
Colleges are businesses and are run like mining camps, they lack open competition on individual services, suckers.
Hopefully, you get a bit smarter when you leave.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235745</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237491</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>proton</author>
	<datestamp>1244292600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"How did y.." He clicks. "It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" How did y.. " He clicks .
" It 's you is n't it ?
THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"How did y.." He clicks.
"It's you isn't it?
THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237579</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244293380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your computer is personal property and personal space.</p><p>I agree that the university should be able to do whatever hell they want on their network (e.g. firewalls, filtering software, etc), however they should not be able to fuck with your computer.</p><p>Or, to state it differently: once your data leaves your ethernet port, its on their network and they have a right to block it or to do whatever they need to do with it. However, they do not have a right to go pass the ethernet port of your PC.</p><p>I say this because your computer is your own personal property and they have no business in there.</p><p>Thats like if they said that if you brought a car to their campus, then they will put a GPS, microphone and a camera in your car so they can track you at all times.</p><p>FUCK THAT. Someone should tag this as "big brother".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your computer is personal property and personal space.I agree that the university should be able to do whatever hell they want on their network ( e.g .
firewalls , filtering software , etc ) , however they should not be able to fuck with your computer.Or , to state it differently : once your data leaves your ethernet port , its on their network and they have a right to block it or to do whatever they need to do with it .
However , they do not have a right to go pass the ethernet port of your PC.I say this because your computer is your own personal property and they have no business in there.Thats like if they said that if you brought a car to their campus , then they will put a GPS , microphone and a camera in your car so they can track you at all times.FUCK THAT .
Someone should tag this as " big brother " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your computer is personal property and personal space.I agree that the university should be able to do whatever hell they want on their network (e.g.
firewalls, filtering software, etc), however they should not be able to fuck with your computer.Or, to state it differently: once your data leaves your ethernet port, its on their network and they have a right to block it or to do whatever they need to do with it.
However, they do not have a right to go pass the ethernet port of your PC.I say this because your computer is your own personal property and they have no business in there.Thats like if they said that if you brought a car to their campus, then they will put a GPS, microphone and a camera in your car so they can track you at all times.FUCK THAT.
Someone should tag this as "big brother".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28252197</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244482140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I dont want to take too much time responding to your BS however internet access is no long a privilege or a luxury but a right.  If I cannot complete my school work without it then its a right.</p><p>Also as far as I am concerned students should have more say so over the schools.  Schools run themselves as a business therefore I am going to treat them like any other company and demand my monies worth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I dont want to take too much time responding to your BS however internet access is no long a privilege or a luxury but a right .
If I can not complete my school work without it then its a right.Also as far as I am concerned students should have more say so over the schools .
Schools run themselves as a business therefore I am going to treat them like any other company and demand my monies worth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I dont want to take too much time responding to your BS however internet access is no long a privilege or a luxury but a right.
If I cannot complete my school work without it then its a right.Also as far as I am concerned students should have more say so over the schools.
Schools run themselves as a business therefore I am going to treat them like any other company and demand my monies worth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28249717</id>
	<title>Nix?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244468880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Typically the client which the university requires you to install is a Windows application/service. If you go with some flavor of Unix, you should be able to get around that. Boston College has a similar requirement using the McAfee EPO agent. If you use Linux, then you were pretty much home free and just needed to register your NIC with the ITS department.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Typically the client which the university requires you to install is a Windows application/service .
If you go with some flavor of Unix , you should be able to get around that .
Boston College has a similar requirement using the McAfee EPO agent .
If you use Linux , then you were pretty much home free and just needed to register your NIC with the ITS department .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Typically the client which the university requires you to install is a Windows application/service.
If you go with some flavor of Unix, you should be able to get around that.
Boston College has a similar requirement using the McAfee EPO agent.
If you use Linux, then you were pretty much home free and just needed to register your NIC with the ITS department.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28242791</id>
	<title>I2P or Tor</title>
	<author>doronbc</author>
	<datestamp>1244401860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.i2p2.de/how\_networkcomparisons" title="i2p2.de" rel="nofollow">http://www.i2p2.de/how\_networkcomparisons</a> [i2p2.de]

There are many other applications and projects working on anonymous communication and I2P has been inspired by much of their efforts. This is not a comprehensive list of anonymity resources - both freehaven's Anonymity Bibliography and GNUnet's related projects serve that purpose well. That said, a few systems stand out for further comparison:

    * Tor / Onion Routing
    * Morphmix and Tarzan
    * Mixminion / Mixmaster
    * Freenet
    * JAP
    * MUTE / AntsP2P</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.i2p2.de/how \ _networkcomparisons [ i2p2.de ] There are many other applications and projects working on anonymous communication and I2P has been inspired by much of their efforts .
This is not a comprehensive list of anonymity resources - both freehaven 's Anonymity Bibliography and GNUnet 's related projects serve that purpose well .
That said , a few systems stand out for further comparison : * Tor / Onion Routing * Morphmix and Tarzan * Mixminion / Mixmaster * Freenet * JAP * MUTE / AntsP2P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.i2p2.de/how\_networkcomparisons [i2p2.de]

There are many other applications and projects working on anonymous communication and I2P has been inspired by much of their efforts.
This is not a comprehensive list of anonymity resources - both freehaven's Anonymity Bibliography and GNUnet's related projects serve that purpose well.
That said, a few systems stand out for further comparison:

    * Tor / Onion Routing
    * Morphmix and Tarzan
    * Mixminion / Mixmaster
    * Freenet
    * JAP
    * MUTE / AntsP2P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237927</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>bwcbwc</author>
	<datestamp>1244296440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unfortunately, I don't think "honor code" and "public university" go very well together. Although I'll be the first to admit I don't know that any public university has actually tried it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately , I do n't think " honor code " and " public university " go very well together .
Although I 'll be the first to admit I do n't know that any public university has actually tried it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately, I don't think "honor code" and "public university" go very well together.
Although I'll be the first to admit I don't know that any public university has actually tried it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235371</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235429</id>
	<title>Re:Virtualization? CoLinux?</title>
	<author>Idiot with a gun</author>
	<datestamp>1244319660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If it's anything like my school, we support Linux, Mac, and Windows. Only Windows has the CSA (for now, Mac is coming in a few years), since they tend to be the most egregious breakers of DMCA law and security common sense. If we don't force them to uninstall limewire, and maintain an up to date version of windows, our network would be a disaster.<br> <br> All of this "They hate Linux!" crap is FUD. My school has an <b>identical</b> setup, and I run Linux exclusively on campus.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If it 's anything like my school , we support Linux , Mac , and Windows .
Only Windows has the CSA ( for now , Mac is coming in a few years ) , since they tend to be the most egregious breakers of DMCA law and security common sense .
If we do n't force them to uninstall limewire , and maintain an up to date version of windows , our network would be a disaster .
All of this " They hate Linux !
" crap is FUD .
My school has an identical setup , and I run Linux exclusively on campus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it's anything like my school, we support Linux, Mac, and Windows.
Only Windows has the CSA (for now, Mac is coming in a few years), since they tend to be the most egregious breakers of DMCA law and security common sense.
If we don't force them to uninstall limewire, and maintain an up to date version of windows, our network would be a disaster.
All of this "They hate Linux!
" crap is FUD.
My school has an identical setup, and I run Linux exclusively on campus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235001</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237895</id>
	<title>How about a cellular wireless card?</title>
	<author>Patrick In Chicago</author>
	<datestamp>1244296260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sucks to have to pay extra monthly but you could buy a mobile broadband card. It won't be terribly fast but you won't have to install their agent on your computer.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sucks to have to pay extra monthly but you could buy a mobile broadband card .
It wo n't be terribly fast but you wo n't have to install their agent on your computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sucks to have to pay extra monthly but you could buy a mobile broadband card.
It won't be terribly fast but you won't have to install their agent on your computer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28254529</id>
	<title>crap</title>
	<author>Uberbah</author>
	<datestamp>1244492160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>But let's be honest here. It is the university's network, even if you are semi-footing the bill, and they get to decide network policy rules. </i></p><p>But as a public university, there are sharp limits what rules they may impose.  See: the Bill of Rights.  Just because you live in a dorm doesn't mean you give up your rights to due process or being secure in your person, papers &amp; effects.</p><p><i>if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices, the university might get into trouble. </i></p><p>Or...not.  The whole point of DMCA notices is that the ISP has immunity as long as the content is taken offline.  Zero liability for the university, zero trouble.</p><p><i>So of course they block limewire, not like it has a legitimate use anyways.</i></p><p>Of course it has legitimate uses, just like any other P2P network.</p><p><i>Simply put, their network, their rules. </i></p><p>Garbage, see above.  If you want to be an ankle grabber for authoritarians, knock yourself out.  But don't be a WATB when the rest of us stand up for our rights.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But let 's be honest here .
It is the university 's network , even if you are semi-footing the bill , and they get to decide network policy rules .
But as a public university , there are sharp limits what rules they may impose .
See : the Bill of Rights .
Just because you live in a dorm does n't mean you give up your rights to due process or being secure in your person , papers &amp; effects.if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices , the university might get into trouble .
Or...not. The whole point of DMCA notices is that the ISP has immunity as long as the content is taken offline .
Zero liability for the university , zero trouble.So of course they block limewire , not like it has a legitimate use anyways.Of course it has legitimate uses , just like any other P2P network.Simply put , their network , their rules .
Garbage , see above .
If you want to be an ankle grabber for authoritarians , knock yourself out .
But do n't be a WATB when the rest of us stand up for our rights .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But let's be honest here.
It is the university's network, even if you are semi-footing the bill, and they get to decide network policy rules.
But as a public university, there are sharp limits what rules they may impose.
See: the Bill of Rights.
Just because you live in a dorm doesn't mean you give up your rights to due process or being secure in your person, papers &amp; effects.if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices, the university might get into trouble.
Or...not.  The whole point of DMCA notices is that the ISP has immunity as long as the content is taken offline.
Zero liability for the university, zero trouble.So of course they block limewire, not like it has a legitimate use anyways.Of course it has legitimate uses, just like any other P2P network.Simply put, their network, their rules.
Garbage, see above.
If you want to be an ankle grabber for authoritarians, knock yourself out.
But don't be a WATB when the rest of us stand up for our rights.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235517</id>
	<title>Re:Solution!</title>
	<author>phoenix321</author>
	<datestamp>1244320200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or you could ask your local ACLU when all other options fail or infringe on privacy rights. Students have to have a reasonable expectation of privacy and continously scanning harddrives is almost more intrusive than unwarranted search and seizure. Just because he's living on college premises doesn't make him a slave to their Internet policy.</p><p>Man, do I hate it when administrators of whatever service run amok with their root privileges and force everyone to bow to their will. I have seen companies disabling the right mouse button for security, using IE6 (in 2009) for security or whatever idea their crackhead of operator came up with.</p><p>Throttle the net for p2p, block all websites containing four-letter words and more than five pink pixels in a row. But don't scan user's harddrives, that's none of your business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or you could ask your local ACLU when all other options fail or infringe on privacy rights .
Students have to have a reasonable expectation of privacy and continously scanning harddrives is almost more intrusive than unwarranted search and seizure .
Just because he 's living on college premises does n't make him a slave to their Internet policy.Man , do I hate it when administrators of whatever service run amok with their root privileges and force everyone to bow to their will .
I have seen companies disabling the right mouse button for security , using IE6 ( in 2009 ) for security or whatever idea their crackhead of operator came up with.Throttle the net for p2p , block all websites containing four-letter words and more than five pink pixels in a row .
But do n't scan user 's harddrives , that 's none of your business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or you could ask your local ACLU when all other options fail or infringe on privacy rights.
Students have to have a reasonable expectation of privacy and continously scanning harddrives is almost more intrusive than unwarranted search and seizure.
Just because he's living on college premises doesn't make him a slave to their Internet policy.Man, do I hate it when administrators of whatever service run amok with their root privileges and force everyone to bow to their will.
I have seen companies disabling the right mouse button for security, using IE6 (in 2009) for security or whatever idea their crackhead of operator came up with.Throttle the net for p2p, block all websites containing four-letter words and more than five pink pixels in a row.
But don't scan user's harddrives, that's none of your business.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235161</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236985</id>
	<title>The low tech way of getting around campus networks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244287560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to work for a University's IT dept in SC.  We had one student who valued his privacy and did not like the fact that by being on our network we would scan his machine.  We didn't think he was up to anything, he just was one of those privacy nuts.  So he found a simple way around it.  The dorms do not get free cable.  If you want cable you have to talk to the local cable company.  He just subscribed to their cable internet service, and bypassed our network completely.  If he needed access to any resources, he would use the student remote portal.  It ended up costing him next to nothing, because the company provided internet to students at a massive discount if they subbed to the higher cable plan, which most students do anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to work for a University 's IT dept in SC .
We had one student who valued his privacy and did not like the fact that by being on our network we would scan his machine .
We did n't think he was up to anything , he just was one of those privacy nuts .
So he found a simple way around it .
The dorms do not get free cable .
If you want cable you have to talk to the local cable company .
He just subscribed to their cable internet service , and bypassed our network completely .
If he needed access to any resources , he would use the student remote portal .
It ended up costing him next to nothing , because the company provided internet to students at a massive discount if they subbed to the higher cable plan , which most students do anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to work for a University's IT dept in SC.
We had one student who valued his privacy and did not like the fact that by being on our network we would scan his machine.
We didn't think he was up to anything, he just was one of those privacy nuts.
So he found a simple way around it.
The dorms do not get free cable.
If you want cable you have to talk to the local cable company.
He just subscribed to their cable internet service, and bypassed our network completely.
If he needed access to any resources, he would use the student remote portal.
It ended up costing him next to nothing, because the company provided internet to students at a massive discount if they subbed to the higher cable plan, which most students do anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235739</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>izomiac</author>
	<datestamp>1244321460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lying about your OS might not work.  My university used a similar system and it definitely used OS fingerprinting techniques.  I basically was dual-booting Windows and the BeOS and used Linux in a VM.  In exact, one week intervals I'd be forced to log in (all outbound traffic blocked, DNS resolved everything to their internal HTTPS server, all HTTP was redirected to a captive portal page, screwing up caching of SSL certificates and DNS in the process of course).  The page used the User Agent string to determine whether to show a log-in form or to merely insist you download "Cisco Clean Access".  But, changing one's User Agent still didn't allow logging in, that's where the OS fingerprinting came into play.</p><p>That was the only part that used fingerprinting though.  I found that I could log in from the BeOS or from Linux in a VM, so that's what I always did.  Assuming the programmers behind that system are competent, I'd think they've patched that hole by now.  People using Cisco Clean Access never saw that page, so I doubt they always got downloads and online games disconnected on weekly intervals.  Anyway, I was using a heavily nLited and tweaked version of XP, so I knew it was secured (yes, I double checked with antivirus scans and blackhat tools every now and then), but Cisco Clean Access didn't (it apparently couldn't determine the patch status of some windows component I'd removed).  I could log in with another OS and simply reboot to use Windows though.  CCA was kinda a pain for normal users as well.  My roommate came in with a decently updated Vista machine and basic computer usage skills (he could download and install software easily enough).  I timed him, it took him six hours to clear all of CCA's requirements.</p><p>Oh, amusingly enough I complained about the system before it was fully implemented, asking about how they expected game consoles to log in, or how dual-boot users like myself would be affected.  The IT person I talked to had no idea about dual-booters, but stated that game consoles weren't allowed on the network because they can't run an antivirus.  After I pointed out that it's almost unheard of for such devices to be infected (and a few reasons why), he replied that he'd seen it happen in his personal experience, and provided a link of "such a case" (it was to a security bulletin for law enforcement saying that modded Xboxes might contain hacking tools).  I kinda chuckled when I saw the system-wide e-mail a week after implementation saying that policy had been reversed, and that IT would whitelist game console MAC addresses upon request.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lying about your OS might not work .
My university used a similar system and it definitely used OS fingerprinting techniques .
I basically was dual-booting Windows and the BeOS and used Linux in a VM .
In exact , one week intervals I 'd be forced to log in ( all outbound traffic blocked , DNS resolved everything to their internal HTTPS server , all HTTP was redirected to a captive portal page , screwing up caching of SSL certificates and DNS in the process of course ) .
The page used the User Agent string to determine whether to show a log-in form or to merely insist you download " Cisco Clean Access " .
But , changing one 's User Agent still did n't allow logging in , that 's where the OS fingerprinting came into play.That was the only part that used fingerprinting though .
I found that I could log in from the BeOS or from Linux in a VM , so that 's what I always did .
Assuming the programmers behind that system are competent , I 'd think they 've patched that hole by now .
People using Cisco Clean Access never saw that page , so I doubt they always got downloads and online games disconnected on weekly intervals .
Anyway , I was using a heavily nLited and tweaked version of XP , so I knew it was secured ( yes , I double checked with antivirus scans and blackhat tools every now and then ) , but Cisco Clean Access did n't ( it apparently could n't determine the patch status of some windows component I 'd removed ) .
I could log in with another OS and simply reboot to use Windows though .
CCA was kinda a pain for normal users as well .
My roommate came in with a decently updated Vista machine and basic computer usage skills ( he could download and install software easily enough ) .
I timed him , it took him six hours to clear all of CCA 's requirements.Oh , amusingly enough I complained about the system before it was fully implemented , asking about how they expected game consoles to log in , or how dual-boot users like myself would be affected .
The IT person I talked to had no idea about dual-booters , but stated that game consoles were n't allowed on the network because they ca n't run an antivirus .
After I pointed out that it 's almost unheard of for such devices to be infected ( and a few reasons why ) , he replied that he 'd seen it happen in his personal experience , and provided a link of " such a case " ( it was to a security bulletin for law enforcement saying that modded Xboxes might contain hacking tools ) .
I kinda chuckled when I saw the system-wide e-mail a week after implementation saying that policy had been reversed , and that IT would whitelist game console MAC addresses upon request .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lying about your OS might not work.
My university used a similar system and it definitely used OS fingerprinting techniques.
I basically was dual-booting Windows and the BeOS and used Linux in a VM.
In exact, one week intervals I'd be forced to log in (all outbound traffic blocked, DNS resolved everything to their internal HTTPS server, all HTTP was redirected to a captive portal page, screwing up caching of SSL certificates and DNS in the process of course).
The page used the User Agent string to determine whether to show a log-in form or to merely insist you download "Cisco Clean Access".
But, changing one's User Agent still didn't allow logging in, that's where the OS fingerprinting came into play.That was the only part that used fingerprinting though.
I found that I could log in from the BeOS or from Linux in a VM, so that's what I always did.
Assuming the programmers behind that system are competent, I'd think they've patched that hole by now.
People using Cisco Clean Access never saw that page, so I doubt they always got downloads and online games disconnected on weekly intervals.
Anyway, I was using a heavily nLited and tweaked version of XP, so I knew it was secured (yes, I double checked with antivirus scans and blackhat tools every now and then), but Cisco Clean Access didn't (it apparently couldn't determine the patch status of some windows component I'd removed).
I could log in with another OS and simply reboot to use Windows though.
CCA was kinda a pain for normal users as well.
My roommate came in with a decently updated Vista machine and basic computer usage skills (he could download and install software easily enough).
I timed him, it took him six hours to clear all of CCA's requirements.Oh, amusingly enough I complained about the system before it was fully implemented, asking about how they expected game consoles to log in, or how dual-boot users like myself would be affected.
The IT person I talked to had no idea about dual-booters, but stated that game consoles weren't allowed on the network because they can't run an antivirus.
After I pointed out that it's almost unheard of for such devices to be infected (and a few reasons why), he replied that he'd seen it happen in his personal experience, and provided a link of "such a case" (it was to a security bulletin for law enforcement saying that modded Xboxes might contain hacking tools).
I kinda chuckled when I saw the system-wide e-mail a week after implementation saying that policy had been reversed, and that IT would whitelist game console MAC addresses upon request.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235411</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244319540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just keep your nose clean for a few years.</p><p>Oh.. right, it's college.  Sorry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just keep your nose clean for a few years.Oh.. right , it 's college .
Sorry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just keep your nose clean for a few years.Oh.. right, it's college.
Sorry.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235609</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>binarythoughts</author>
	<datestamp>1244320680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.bradfordnetworks.com/board/board.cgi?id=CM\_CaseStudy&amp;action=download&amp;gul=32" title="bradfordnetworks.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.bradfordnetworks.com/board/board.cgi?id=CM\_CaseStudy&amp;action=download&amp;gul=32</a> [bradfordnetworks.com]</p><p>you can read about CMU's Agent here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.bradfordnetworks.com/board/board.cgi ? id = CM \ _CaseStudy&amp;action = download&amp;gul = 32 [ bradfordnetworks.com ] you can read about CMU 's Agent here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.bradfordnetworks.com/board/board.cgi?id=CM\_CaseStudy&amp;action=download&amp;gul=32 [bradfordnetworks.com]you can read about CMU's Agent here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28243299</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244405760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What a pathetic excuse to justify police state mentality. Oh that's right I only have rights until the first pico second of life whereby I must turn them over to the closest government or corporate authority in order to function in life (which this situation is an example of). Wonderful.  It's people like you who are demanding excess entitlement from others. How about if a business owner can't stand the thought of customers retaining their privacy, HE should close his business instead? civil rights are more important than profit.</p><p>Anyway, stop preaching your submissive bullshit and calling it 'adult' behavior.  An adult that cares about his liberty should make an issue of invasive policy.  Defending your 'private property' by damaging the sovereign rights of others over their property is NOT acceptable. If the school is being 'damaged' by infected machines, then it needs to shore up its network security.  Trojaning the student's machines is unacceptable for the same reasons it is unacceptable for the students to bypass the trojan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What a pathetic excuse to justify police state mentality .
Oh that 's right I only have rights until the first pico second of life whereby I must turn them over to the closest government or corporate authority in order to function in life ( which this situation is an example of ) .
Wonderful. It 's people like you who are demanding excess entitlement from others .
How about if a business owner ca n't stand the thought of customers retaining their privacy , HE should close his business instead ?
civil rights are more important than profit.Anyway , stop preaching your submissive bullshit and calling it 'adult ' behavior .
An adult that cares about his liberty should make an issue of invasive policy .
Defending your 'private property ' by damaging the sovereign rights of others over their property is NOT acceptable .
If the school is being 'damaged ' by infected machines , then it needs to shore up its network security .
Trojaning the student 's machines is unacceptable for the same reasons it is unacceptable for the students to bypass the trojan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a pathetic excuse to justify police state mentality.
Oh that's right I only have rights until the first pico second of life whereby I must turn them over to the closest government or corporate authority in order to function in life (which this situation is an example of).
Wonderful.  It's people like you who are demanding excess entitlement from others.
How about if a business owner can't stand the thought of customers retaining their privacy, HE should close his business instead?
civil rights are more important than profit.Anyway, stop preaching your submissive bullshit and calling it 'adult' behavior.
An adult that cares about his liberty should make an issue of invasive policy.
Defending your 'private property' by damaging the sovereign rights of others over their property is NOT acceptable.
If the school is being 'damaged' by infected machines, then it needs to shore up its network security.
Trojaning the student's machines is unacceptable for the same reasons it is unacceptable for the students to bypass the trojan.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236137</id>
	<title>Re:yeah, but</title>
	<author>JakiChan</author>
	<datestamp>1244280780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You're consenting to such monitoring/searches in exchange for use of the university's computing resources.  You don't have to consent, but you also don't get to use the network.</p><p>Really, that's a terrible analogy.</p></div><p>Except that, if it's a state school, they're using a lot of my tax money (in addition to my tuition) to provide that resource.  And I'm sure that even if it's not a state school there are still public funds involved.  It's not "theirs".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're consenting to such monitoring/searches in exchange for use of the university 's computing resources .
You do n't have to consent , but you also do n't get to use the network.Really , that 's a terrible analogy.Except that , if it 's a state school , they 're using a lot of my tax money ( in addition to my tuition ) to provide that resource .
And I 'm sure that even if it 's not a state school there are still public funds involved .
It 's not " theirs " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're consenting to such monitoring/searches in exchange for use of the university's computing resources.
You don't have to consent, but you also don't get to use the network.Really, that's a terrible analogy.Except that, if it's a state school, they're using a lot of my tax money (in addition to my tuition) to provide that resource.
And I'm sure that even if it's not a state school there are still public funds involved.
It's not "theirs".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235535</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235085</id>
	<title>Other than the obvious</title>
	<author>vilain</author>
	<datestamp>1244317800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some colleges require you to live on campus for the first year.  During that time, you'll have to "suck it up" and live with the networking restrictions.  Or switch to a computer and OS they don't support, like MacOS 9 or CPM or RT-11 or whatever to ensure you have the privacy you need.  Or just don't use the computer (or the phone) for anything you don't want anyone to know about.  If the school requires you to run an OS that they support, then you have your answer.  For more ideas along this vein, read Cory Doctorow's Little Brother:</p><p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Little-Brother-Cory-Doctorow/dp/0765319853" title="amazon.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Little-Brother-Cory-Doctorow/dp/0765319853</a> [amazon.com]</p><p>Some colleges are really worried about the infringing material on their networks and applying some rather heavy handed response.  Yours seems to focusing on prevention rather than assuming the students are adults and capable of making their own choices and dealing with the consequences.  There's a fine line between "policing" and "fascism".  Your college crossed it, IMO.  If they require the dorm resident advisors to search your room periodically for "contraband", then I think you have to find another college or a good lawyer to fight it.</p><p>Take physical notes with pen, paper, and notebook--it uses a different part of your brain than typing.  I still can't actively listen to a lecture and type note.  I have to take them by hand.  A client told me about Lightscribe, a pen computer which he uses for meetings and downloads what he wrote to his computer later:</p><p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Livescribe-2GB-Pulse-Smartpen-APA-00002/dp/B001AAN4PW" title="amazon.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Livescribe-2GB-Pulse-Smartpen-APA-00002/dp/B001AAN4PW</a> [amazon.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some colleges require you to live on campus for the first year .
During that time , you 'll have to " suck it up " and live with the networking restrictions .
Or switch to a computer and OS they do n't support , like MacOS 9 or CPM or RT-11 or whatever to ensure you have the privacy you need .
Or just do n't use the computer ( or the phone ) for anything you do n't want anyone to know about .
If the school requires you to run an OS that they support , then you have your answer .
For more ideas along this vein , read Cory Doctorow 's Little Brother : http : //www.amazon.com/Little-Brother-Cory-Doctorow/dp/0765319853 [ amazon.com ] Some colleges are really worried about the infringing material on their networks and applying some rather heavy handed response .
Yours seems to focusing on prevention rather than assuming the students are adults and capable of making their own choices and dealing with the consequences .
There 's a fine line between " policing " and " fascism " .
Your college crossed it , IMO .
If they require the dorm resident advisors to search your room periodically for " contraband " , then I think you have to find another college or a good lawyer to fight it.Take physical notes with pen , paper , and notebook--it uses a different part of your brain than typing .
I still ca n't actively listen to a lecture and type note .
I have to take them by hand .
A client told me about Lightscribe , a pen computer which he uses for meetings and downloads what he wrote to his computer later : http : //www.amazon.com/Livescribe-2GB-Pulse-Smartpen-APA-00002/dp/B001AAN4PW [ amazon.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some colleges require you to live on campus for the first year.
During that time, you'll have to "suck it up" and live with the networking restrictions.
Or switch to a computer and OS they don't support, like MacOS 9 or CPM or RT-11 or whatever to ensure you have the privacy you need.
Or just don't use the computer (or the phone) for anything you don't want anyone to know about.
If the school requires you to run an OS that they support, then you have your answer.
For more ideas along this vein, read Cory Doctorow's Little Brother:http://www.amazon.com/Little-Brother-Cory-Doctorow/dp/0765319853 [amazon.com]Some colleges are really worried about the infringing material on their networks and applying some rather heavy handed response.
Yours seems to focusing on prevention rather than assuming the students are adults and capable of making their own choices and dealing with the consequences.
There's a fine line between "policing" and "fascism".
Your college crossed it, IMO.
If they require the dorm resident advisors to search your room periodically for "contraband", then I think you have to find another college or a good lawyer to fight it.Take physical notes with pen, paper, and notebook--it uses a different part of your brain than typing.
I still can't actively listen to a lecture and type note.
I have to take them by hand.
A client told me about Lightscribe, a pen computer which he uses for meetings and downloads what he wrote to his computer later:http://www.amazon.com/Livescribe-2GB-Pulse-Smartpen-APA-00002/dp/B001AAN4PW [amazon.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235281</id>
	<title>Both CYA &amp; BS</title>
	<author>indytx</author>
	<datestamp>1244318940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am assuming that you will be living in the dorm, otherwise the CMU website gives a list of ISPs.  <a href="http://www.oit.cmich.edu/it/it\_isps.asp" title="cmich.edu">http://www.oit.cmich.edu/it/it\_isps.asp</a> [cmich.edu]  The list includes mobile broadband cards from Sprint, etc., so I'm not sure what you mean by no wireless broadband providers, though this would be a huge downgrade from the internet speed you can probably get on campus.  </p><p>The Acceptable Use Policy looks to be general CYA boilerplate B.S. which lets you know that you have some expectations of privacy, but don't hold your breath if there's a subpoena or other legal action trying to get the data.  As to the CSA, this appears to be an overreaction to the perceived security risks of Windows systems.  On the other hand, bandwidth is expensive, and the IT department may have decided that this is a good way to prevent the spread of viruses and bots on the campus network.  All of this is probably academic as it doesn't look like it's Windows only.  <a href="http://www.oit.cmich.edu/faq/faq\_network\_dialup.asp#get" title="cmich.edu">http://www.oit.cmich.edu/faq/faq\_network\_dialup.asp#get</a> [cmich.edu]  Mac or Linux should probably work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am assuming that you will be living in the dorm , otherwise the CMU website gives a list of ISPs .
http : //www.oit.cmich.edu/it/it \ _isps.asp [ cmich.edu ] The list includes mobile broadband cards from Sprint , etc. , so I 'm not sure what you mean by no wireless broadband providers , though this would be a huge downgrade from the internet speed you can probably get on campus .
The Acceptable Use Policy looks to be general CYA boilerplate B.S .
which lets you know that you have some expectations of privacy , but do n't hold your breath if there 's a subpoena or other legal action trying to get the data .
As to the CSA , this appears to be an overreaction to the perceived security risks of Windows systems .
On the other hand , bandwidth is expensive , and the IT department may have decided that this is a good way to prevent the spread of viruses and bots on the campus network .
All of this is probably academic as it does n't look like it 's Windows only .
http : //www.oit.cmich.edu/faq/faq \ _network \ _dialup.asp # get [ cmich.edu ] Mac or Linux should probably work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am assuming that you will be living in the dorm, otherwise the CMU website gives a list of ISPs.
http://www.oit.cmich.edu/it/it\_isps.asp [cmich.edu]  The list includes mobile broadband cards from Sprint, etc., so I'm not sure what you mean by no wireless broadband providers, though this would be a huge downgrade from the internet speed you can probably get on campus.
The Acceptable Use Policy looks to be general CYA boilerplate B.S.
which lets you know that you have some expectations of privacy, but don't hold your breath if there's a subpoena or other legal action trying to get the data.
As to the CSA, this appears to be an overreaction to the perceived security risks of Windows systems.
On the other hand, bandwidth is expensive, and the IT department may have decided that this is a good way to prevent the spread of viruses and bots on the campus network.
All of this is probably academic as it doesn't look like it's Windows only.
http://www.oit.cmich.edu/faq/faq\_network\_dialup.asp#get [cmich.edu]  Mac or Linux should probably work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235641</id>
	<title>Re:My Solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244320920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I remember right, the new versions of CCA aren't fooled by Agent spoofing anymore. It checks the OS via other methods now (Java?). MAC address spoofing is one of the only ways to go.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I remember right , the new versions of CCA are n't fooled by Agent spoofing anymore .
It checks the OS via other methods now ( Java ? ) .
MAC address spoofing is one of the only ways to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I remember right, the new versions of CCA aren't fooled by Agent spoofing anymore.
It checks the OS via other methods now (Java?).
MAC address spoofing is one of the only ways to go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234973</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235391</id>
	<title>Linux works best from experince</title>
	<author>Suisho</author>
	<datestamp>1244319480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At my university- basically Linux was whitelisted, and had very little problems. Also, some computers in the lab were set to boot from CD first, and DSL worked just fine. <br> <br>

As for using windows, I tried to make a work-around, but it didn't really work. I was *extremely* annoyed to also HAVE to have Norton. I *think* this could have been fixed by a couple phone calls, but I didn't want to go through the hassle. Though, running a VM or another partition sounds like a great workaround I didn't try.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At my university- basically Linux was whitelisted , and had very little problems .
Also , some computers in the lab were set to boot from CD first , and DSL worked just fine .
As for using windows , I tried to make a work-around , but it did n't really work .
I was * extremely * annoyed to also HAVE to have Norton .
I * think * this could have been fixed by a couple phone calls , but I did n't want to go through the hassle .
Though , running a VM or another partition sounds like a great workaround I did n't try .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At my university- basically Linux was whitelisted, and had very little problems.
Also, some computers in the lab were set to boot from CD first, and DSL worked just fine.
As for using windows, I tried to make a work-around, but it didn't really work.
I was *extremely* annoyed to also HAVE to have Norton.
I *think* this could have been fixed by a couple phone calls, but I didn't want to go through the hassle.
Though, running a VM or another partition sounds like a great workaround I didn't try.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240301</id>
	<title>It's a shame you're not a British student...</title>
	<author>pandrijeczko</author>
	<datestamp>1244375640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...because if you were then I'd tell you to the STFU because it's my taxes paying for you to sit on your spotty backside for three years turning up to lectures once a week for your Media Studies degree - therefore you will do as you are told.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...because if you were then I 'd tell you to the STFU because it 's my taxes paying for you to sit on your spotty backside for three years turning up to lectures once a week for your Media Studies degree - therefore you will do as you are told .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...because if you were then I'd tell you to the STFU because it's my taxes paying for you to sit on your spotty backside for three years turning up to lectures once a week for your Media Studies degree - therefore you will do as you are told.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239913</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244367840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Do you think they should let you piss in the university president's office...</p></div><p>They have a toilet for that.  They don't have a separate network for internet banking, private emails, and anything else students might not want everyone and his dog in the IT department to see.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you think they should let you piss in the university president 's office...They have a toilet for that .
They do n't have a separate network for internet banking , private emails , and anything else students might not want everyone and his dog in the IT department to see .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you think they should let you piss in the university president's office...They have a toilet for that.
They don't have a separate network for internet banking, private emails, and anything else students might not want everyone and his dog in the IT department to see.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235745</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236485</id>
	<title>Canadian University</title>
	<author>SubjectiveObjection</author>
	<datestamp>1244283120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I go to a Canadian university. You Americans are really having it tough. In here, you don't need to install anything, the university has no right to snoop on your data. All you need to use the wireless network is your student ID and password.

Proud to be Canadian!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I go to a Canadian university .
You Americans are really having it tough .
In here , you do n't need to install anything , the university has no right to snoop on your data .
All you need to use the wireless network is your student ID and password .
Proud to be Canadian !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I go to a Canadian university.
You Americans are really having it tough.
In here, you don't need to install anything, the university has no right to snoop on your data.
All you need to use the wireless network is your student ID and password.
Proud to be Canadian!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238139</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244298240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>the installation of that firewall resulted in about a 60\% reduction in our network resources</p></div><p>Wow. That is the most inefficient firewall EVER.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the installation of that firewall resulted in about a 60 \ % reduction in our network resourcesWow .
That is the most inefficient firewall EVER .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the installation of that firewall resulted in about a 60\% reduction in our network resourcesWow.
That is the most inefficient firewall EVER.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235093</id>
	<title>My experiences in Truman, MO</title>
	<author>wasabioss</author>
	<datestamp>1244317860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have it here too.</p><p>The "Clean Security Agent," if I'm not wrong, is the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean\_Access\_Agent" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Cisco Clean Access Agent</a> [wikipedia.org] that comes with the Cisco NAC Appilance, which runs on Windows only, and is a pain esp. for those who are running Vista. This beast have to run under Administrator privilesges and pops up a login window everytime you connect back to the network, and doesn't even want to accept certain types of Anti-virus software (such as Avira.) </p><p>Workaround: It doesn't run on Mac and Linux. If you use WIndows, you can convince the NAC you're using Linux and it will believe it until the appliance gets restarted. If you have Linux - great, the NAC just let you pass through. If you have Windows, <a href="http://kevin.sourceforge.net/howto.html" title="sourceforge.net" rel="nofollow">Kevin</a> [sourceforge.net], a program with a great icon, used to work but recently it didn't, but there is always an easy way to get over it: boot into Linux and fire up firefox and click on a link, and then boot back to Windows.</p><p>And just FYI: Due to an insane number of complaints received from the students, the IT Staff over here is getting rid of the Cisco CCA this summer<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have it here too.The " Clean Security Agent , " if I 'm not wrong , is the Cisco Clean Access Agent [ wikipedia.org ] that comes with the Cisco NAC Appilance , which runs on Windows only , and is a pain esp .
for those who are running Vista .
This beast have to run under Administrator privilesges and pops up a login window everytime you connect back to the network , and does n't even want to accept certain types of Anti-virus software ( such as Avira .
) Workaround : It does n't run on Mac and Linux .
If you use WIndows , you can convince the NAC you 're using Linux and it will believe it until the appliance gets restarted .
If you have Linux - great , the NAC just let you pass through .
If you have Windows , Kevin [ sourceforge.net ] , a program with a great icon , used to work but recently it did n't , but there is always an easy way to get over it : boot into Linux and fire up firefox and click on a link , and then boot back to Windows.And just FYI : Due to an insane number of complaints received from the students , the IT Staff over here is getting rid of the Cisco CCA this summer : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have it here too.The "Clean Security Agent," if I'm not wrong, is the Cisco Clean Access Agent [wikipedia.org] that comes with the Cisco NAC Appilance, which runs on Windows only, and is a pain esp.
for those who are running Vista.
This beast have to run under Administrator privilesges and pops up a login window everytime you connect back to the network, and doesn't even want to accept certain types of Anti-virus software (such as Avira.
) Workaround: It doesn't run on Mac and Linux.
If you use WIndows, you can convince the NAC you're using Linux and it will believe it until the appliance gets restarted.
If you have Linux - great, the NAC just let you pass through.
If you have Windows, Kevin [sourceforge.net], a program with a great icon, used to work but recently it didn't, but there is always an easy way to get over it: boot into Linux and fire up firefox and click on a link, and then boot back to Windows.And just FYI: Due to an insane number of complaints received from the students, the IT Staff over here is getting rid of the Cisco CCA this summer :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237365</id>
	<title>Re:entrepreneur</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244291280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How does one do that?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How does one do that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How does one do that?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234995</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234975</id>
	<title>Sandbox it with Sandboxie</title>
	<author>BountyX</author>
	<datestamp>1244317380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is similar to the linux  and virtual machine suggestions from above. Go <a href="http://www.sandboxie.com/" title="sandboxie.com">here</a> [sandboxie.com] to download it. Once downloaded and installed, run their stupid little application in sandboxie and it will no longer be able to scan you machine. You can even specify which files/folders it has access to and if it has interenet access, etc. I believe that will solve your problem with minimal hassle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is similar to the linux and virtual machine suggestions from above .
Go here [ sandboxie.com ] to download it .
Once downloaded and installed , run their stupid little application in sandboxie and it will no longer be able to scan you machine .
You can even specify which files/folders it has access to and if it has interenet access , etc .
I believe that will solve your problem with minimal hassle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is similar to the linux  and virtual machine suggestions from above.
Go here [sandboxie.com] to download it.
Once downloaded and installed, run their stupid little application in sandboxie and it will no longer be able to scan you machine.
You can even specify which files/folders it has access to and if it has interenet access, etc.
I believe that will solve your problem with minimal hassle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236763</id>
	<title>Build a router</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244285520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just get an old P-II or P-III. Install whatever software is required to get on the network. Have two NIC's-- one faces the campus network, the other faces your local network. Run NAT. As far as the school is concerned, you've got a normal, rules complying, Windows box on the network. You're free to do whatever you want on your side.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just get an old P-II or P-III .
Install whatever software is required to get on the network .
Have two NIC 's-- one faces the campus network , the other faces your local network .
Run NAT .
As far as the school is concerned , you 've got a normal , rules complying , Windows box on the network .
You 're free to do whatever you want on your side .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just get an old P-II or P-III.
Install whatever software is required to get on the network.
Have two NIC's-- one faces the campus network, the other faces your local network.
Run NAT.
As far as the school is concerned, you've got a normal, rules complying, Windows box on the network.
You're free to do whatever you want on your side.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238749</id>
	<title>Just use linux.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244305260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Three out of three universities I have attended or visited used network security that was  defeated by running any linux distro. (Or Mac OS) One had to register their MAC, but could ignore any downloading or scanning nonsense.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Three out of three universities I have attended or visited used network security that was defeated by running any linux distro .
( Or Mac OS ) One had to register their MAC , but could ignore any downloading or scanning nonsense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Three out of three universities I have attended or visited used network security that was  defeated by running any linux distro.
(Or Mac OS) One had to register their MAC, but could ignore any downloading or scanning nonsense.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235713</id>
	<title>Re:It's no worse than being at work</title>
	<author>neithernet</author>
	<datestamp>1244321280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"buy your own ISP and then create whatever rules or freedoms you want"</p><p>Up until your upstream drops you as a peer for violating their TOS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" buy your own ISP and then create whatever rules or freedoms you want " Up until your upstream drops you as a peer for violating their TOS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"buy your own ISP and then create whatever rules or freedoms you want"Up until your upstream drops you as a peer for violating their TOS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28249799</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>Phreakiture</author>
	<datestamp>1244469300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are only two sane answers.  A different college is one of them, accompanied with a thoughtfully-worded, civil, professional explanation to Central Michigan just exactly why you have declined to attend or are transferring out.  Keep it calm and professional, and avoid ranting about it.  Advise them that your computer is  your personal property, and that you reject the notion that using their network entitles them to install anything in particular on it.  Remind them that you would be paying them for their services.</p><p>The other sane option, again leveraging the idea that you would be paying them for their services, is to get enough students riled up to make a noise that the college authorities will have a difficult time ignoring.  This is a lot of work, especially at state colleges (because state colleges get a lower percentage of their revenue from tuition/fees than do private colleges) and the success/failure of it is largely dependent on (a) how excitable the student body is and (b) how sensitive the administration is to embarrassment.</p><p>Really, though, the first idea, finding someplace else to be, is the one that makes the most sense and is far less of a gamble.  Doing anything besides these two options is trying to find a technical solution to a political problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are only two sane answers .
A different college is one of them , accompanied with a thoughtfully-worded , civil , professional explanation to Central Michigan just exactly why you have declined to attend or are transferring out .
Keep it calm and professional , and avoid ranting about it .
Advise them that your computer is your personal property , and that you reject the notion that using their network entitles them to install anything in particular on it .
Remind them that you would be paying them for their services.The other sane option , again leveraging the idea that you would be paying them for their services , is to get enough students riled up to make a noise that the college authorities will have a difficult time ignoring .
This is a lot of work , especially at state colleges ( because state colleges get a lower percentage of their revenue from tuition/fees than do private colleges ) and the success/failure of it is largely dependent on ( a ) how excitable the student body is and ( b ) how sensitive the administration is to embarrassment.Really , though , the first idea , finding someplace else to be , is the one that makes the most sense and is far less of a gamble .
Doing anything besides these two options is trying to find a technical solution to a political problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are only two sane answers.
A different college is one of them, accompanied with a thoughtfully-worded, civil, professional explanation to Central Michigan just exactly why you have declined to attend or are transferring out.
Keep it calm and professional, and avoid ranting about it.
Advise them that your computer is  your personal property, and that you reject the notion that using their network entitles them to install anything in particular on it.
Remind them that you would be paying them for their services.The other sane option, again leveraging the idea that you would be paying them for their services, is to get enough students riled up to make a noise that the college authorities will have a difficult time ignoring.
This is a lot of work, especially at state colleges (because state colleges get a lower percentage of their revenue from tuition/fees than do private colleges) and the success/failure of it is largely dependent on (a) how excitable the student body is and (b) how sensitive the administration is to embarrassment.Really, though, the first idea, finding someplace else to be, is the one that makes the most sense and is far less of a gamble.
Doing anything besides these two options is trying to find a technical solution to a political problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235215</id>
	<title>Welcome to the real world</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244318520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The corporate world has had products like this for a while.  It's not a conspiracy, it's to make sure your pc is up to date with patches, AV software and such.  Many University have had lots of problems with pcs that get infected and become zombies.  They also have a lot of geeks that are curious and knowledgeable and problably have spent some time sniffing the network they're on.    Many University networks give you a semi-permanent IP address (for hardwired machines) and network speeds that are insane - it's not uncommon to have 100Mbit right to your dorm room. </p><p>Network vendors have come up with "solutions" that are a client that sits on a machine and requires AV software to run daily, recent OS patches be applied and also take take data from the PC and encrypt is (typically using some VPN type solution).   The client after checking everything has run talks to a machine that then allows your packets to be routed onto the the network.  Without the clients magic message, the first upstream router/switch discards all the data you send.  It's pretty effective at cutting down the amount of machines infected.  It's not to spy. </p><p>Most Universities are pretty liberal and have strict policies about those type of shenanigans.  Anyone caught doing that type of stuff would quite likely get canned at most places.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The corporate world has had products like this for a while .
It 's not a conspiracy , it 's to make sure your pc is up to date with patches , AV software and such .
Many University have had lots of problems with pcs that get infected and become zombies .
They also have a lot of geeks that are curious and knowledgeable and problably have spent some time sniffing the network they 're on .
Many University networks give you a semi-permanent IP address ( for hardwired machines ) and network speeds that are insane - it 's not uncommon to have 100Mbit right to your dorm room .
Network vendors have come up with " solutions " that are a client that sits on a machine and requires AV software to run daily , recent OS patches be applied and also take take data from the PC and encrypt is ( typically using some VPN type solution ) .
The client after checking everything has run talks to a machine that then allows your packets to be routed onto the the network .
Without the clients magic message , the first upstream router/switch discards all the data you send .
It 's pretty effective at cutting down the amount of machines infected .
It 's not to spy .
Most Universities are pretty liberal and have strict policies about those type of shenanigans .
Anyone caught doing that type of stuff would quite likely get canned at most places .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The corporate world has had products like this for a while.
It's not a conspiracy, it's to make sure your pc is up to date with patches, AV software and such.
Many University have had lots of problems with pcs that get infected and become zombies.
They also have a lot of geeks that are curious and knowledgeable and problably have spent some time sniffing the network they're on.
Many University networks give you a semi-permanent IP address (for hardwired machines) and network speeds that are insane - it's not uncommon to have 100Mbit right to your dorm room.
Network vendors have come up with "solutions" that are a client that sits on a machine and requires AV software to run daily, recent OS patches be applied and also take take data from the PC and encrypt is (typically using some VPN type solution).
The client after checking everything has run talks to a machine that then allows your packets to be routed onto the the network.
Without the clients magic message, the first upstream router/switch discards all the data you send.
It's pretty effective at cutting down the amount of machines infected.
It's not to spy.
Most Universities are pretty liberal and have strict policies about those type of shenanigans.
Anyone caught doing that type of stuff would quite likely get canned at most places.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28251053</id>
	<title>Indiana University</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244476260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not sure how it is now (haven't lived at the dorms for six years) but when I was a freshman at IU they made you install a some sort of "connection software" which checked that your virus scan and windows updates were current - if you passed it registered you on the network. After that it would check every week or so to make sure you were still current - if not it would block your network access and tell you to update.</p><p>What a lot of people ended up doing was installing the software, getting registered, then formatting and reinstalling windows. This kept your mac address registered for the whole year and you didn't have any IU software running in the background.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure how it is now ( have n't lived at the dorms for six years ) but when I was a freshman at IU they made you install a some sort of " connection software " which checked that your virus scan and windows updates were current - if you passed it registered you on the network .
After that it would check every week or so to make sure you were still current - if not it would block your network access and tell you to update.What a lot of people ended up doing was installing the software , getting registered , then formatting and reinstalling windows .
This kept your mac address registered for the whole year and you did n't have any IU software running in the background .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure how it is now (haven't lived at the dorms for six years) but when I was a freshman at IU they made you install a some sort of "connection software" which checked that your virus scan and windows updates were current - if you passed it registered you on the network.
After that it would check every week or so to make sure you were still current - if not it would block your network access and tell you to update.What a lot of people ended up doing was installing the software, getting registered, then formatting and reinstalling windows.
This kept your mac address registered for the whole year and you didn't have any IU software running in the background.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236749</id>
	<title>Fake your UserAgent</title>
	<author>digitalgimpus</author>
	<datestamp>1244285400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I got around this by faking the UserAgent...

the client is generally for Windows laptops.  Linux and Mac OS X were exempt.  While a Mac guy, I had a Windows Laptop... so fake the useragent, and bypass the stupid app.  It registered my MAC address, and I was good for the semester.

Simple as can be.

You can call tech support and ask how to get a BeOS computer on the network.  See what they tell you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I got around this by faking the UserAgent.. . the client is generally for Windows laptops .
Linux and Mac OS X were exempt .
While a Mac guy , I had a Windows Laptop... so fake the useragent , and bypass the stupid app .
It registered my MAC address , and I was good for the semester .
Simple as can be .
You can call tech support and ask how to get a BeOS computer on the network .
See what they tell you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got around this by faking the UserAgent...

the client is generally for Windows laptops.
Linux and Mac OS X were exempt.
While a Mac guy, I had a Windows Laptop... so fake the useragent, and bypass the stupid app.
It registered my MAC address, and I was good for the semester.
Simple as can be.
You can call tech support and ask how to get a BeOS computer on the network.
See what they tell you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235305</id>
	<title>Re:Sandbox it with Sandboxie</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244319000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sandboxie is usually designed to protect your computer against malicious <b>writes</b>. Besides, at my university, if you sandbox the CSA to prevent certain reads or internet access, we'll just drop you off the network. If the CSA can't scan properly, or if the server doesn't hear back from it, it assumes you don't have it installed, and puts you into a small private VLAN, where every webpage except for university stuff, and anti-virus stuff is redirected to the "re-mediation" page.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sandboxie is usually designed to protect your computer against malicious writes .
Besides , at my university , if you sandbox the CSA to prevent certain reads or internet access , we 'll just drop you off the network .
If the CSA ca n't scan properly , or if the server does n't hear back from it , it assumes you do n't have it installed , and puts you into a small private VLAN , where every webpage except for university stuff , and anti-virus stuff is redirected to the " re-mediation " page .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sandboxie is usually designed to protect your computer against malicious writes.
Besides, at my university, if you sandbox the CSA to prevent certain reads or internet access, we'll just drop you off the network.
If the CSA can't scan properly, or if the server doesn't hear back from it, it assumes you don't have it installed, and puts you into a small private VLAN, where every webpage except for university stuff, and anti-virus stuff is redirected to the "re-mediation" page.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234975</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236575</id>
	<title>Yeah, like maybe the other CMU</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244283840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone know Carnegie Mellon University's IT policy?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone know Carnegie Mellon University 's IT policy ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone know Carnegie Mellon University's IT policy?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236619</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244284200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Yep. Just because you personally don't care what he has on his computer, he shouldn't worry that there might be a bad egg in the IT department who will drain his bank accounts and post child pornography on his facebook page.</p><p>Yes sir mister IT guy, we'll let you have all of our data and trust you not to do anything bad with it, whatever you say.</p></div><p>CCA dosen't give anyone access to any data on the machine, it only reports back on the registry scans for AV and WU. At the school I'm at, which is a public university, we don't log any data across the network, only shape it. Your "bad egg" accusation applies to pretty much IT department ever, not just schools.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep .
Just because you personally do n't care what he has on his computer , he should n't worry that there might be a bad egg in the IT department who will drain his bank accounts and post child pornography on his facebook page.Yes sir mister IT guy , we 'll let you have all of our data and trust you not to do anything bad with it , whatever you say.CCA dose n't give anyone access to any data on the machine , it only reports back on the registry scans for AV and WU .
At the school I 'm at , which is a public university , we do n't log any data across the network , only shape it .
Your " bad egg " accusation applies to pretty much IT department ever , not just schools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.
Just because you personally don't care what he has on his computer, he shouldn't worry that there might be a bad egg in the IT department who will drain his bank accounts and post child pornography on his facebook page.Yes sir mister IT guy, we'll let you have all of our data and trust you not to do anything bad with it, whatever you say.CCA dosen't give anyone access to any data on the machine, it only reports back on the registry scans for AV and WU.
At the school I'm at, which is a public university, we don't log any data across the network, only shape it.
Your "bad egg" accusation applies to pretty much IT department ever, not just schools.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235033</id>
	<title>VMWare in NAT mode might help</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your host OS can be running the Client Security App and you could keep your personal files inside the VM. You could also run encrypted filesystems inside the guest VM and even if the Client Security App is smart enough to scan inside the vmdk disk files, you are still cool.</p><p>You would not be able to hide any file sharing, etc. unless you tunnel, and you might have port forwarding issues at the vmware virtual switch and some overhead in NAT mode for any surfing you do inside the VM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your host OS can be running the Client Security App and you could keep your personal files inside the VM .
You could also run encrypted filesystems inside the guest VM and even if the Client Security App is smart enough to scan inside the vmdk disk files , you are still cool.You would not be able to hide any file sharing , etc .
unless you tunnel , and you might have port forwarding issues at the vmware virtual switch and some overhead in NAT mode for any surfing you do inside the VM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your host OS can be running the Client Security App and you could keep your personal files inside the VM.
You could also run encrypted filesystems inside the guest VM and even if the Client Security App is smart enough to scan inside the vmdk disk files, you are still cool.You would not be able to hide any file sharing, etc.
unless you tunnel, and you might have port forwarding issues at the vmware virtual switch and some overhead in NAT mode for any surfing you do inside the VM.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235107</id>
	<title>Tor Browser Bundle</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The FLOSS project, Tor has a set of programs that make it very easy to secure your browsing. It is a portable copy of Tor, Privoxy, and Firefox, working together to give you a private route to the internet.</p><p>If you are worried about the information stored on your machine, use a live distro of Linux... Knoppix or Fedora live, and keep your private data on an encrypted USB key.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The FLOSS project , Tor has a set of programs that make it very easy to secure your browsing .
It is a portable copy of Tor , Privoxy , and Firefox , working together to give you a private route to the internet.If you are worried about the information stored on your machine , use a live distro of Linux... Knoppix or Fedora live , and keep your private data on an encrypted USB key .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The FLOSS project, Tor has a set of programs that make it very easy to secure your browsing.
It is a portable copy of Tor, Privoxy, and Firefox, working together to give you a private route to the internet.If you are worried about the information stored on your machine, use a live distro of Linux... Knoppix or Fedora live, and keep your private data on an encrypted USB key.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236327</id>
	<title>Save money and rent an apartment</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244281980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, more likely, save your parents money and rent an apartment and get your own internet service.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , more likely , save your parents money and rent an apartment and get your own internet service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, more likely, save your parents money and rent an apartment and get your own internet service.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240409</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>silvakow</author>
	<datestamp>1244377620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You probably think that's funny, but I appled to and got accepted to Central Michigan University in 2001 and decided not to attend because of a bad conversation with a sysadmin where he told me students should not have the ability to host any type of content.  I went to (relatively) neighboring Grand Vallley State University (gvsu.edu) instead, and I'm glad I did.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You probably think that 's funny , but I appled to and got accepted to Central Michigan University in 2001 and decided not to attend because of a bad conversation with a sysadmin where he told me students should not have the ability to host any type of content .
I went to ( relatively ) neighboring Grand Vallley State University ( gvsu.edu ) instead , and I 'm glad I did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You probably think that's funny, but I appled to and got accepted to Central Michigan University in 2001 and decided not to attend because of a bad conversation with a sysadmin where he told me students should not have the ability to host any type of content.
I went to (relatively) neighboring Grand Vallley State University (gvsu.edu) instead, and I'm glad I did.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239103</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>srandby</author>
	<datestamp>1244309940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you were really interested in eliminating malware and such, then you would ban all machines running Windows from your network.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you were really interested in eliminating malware and such , then you would ban all machines running Windows from your network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you were really interested in eliminating malware and such, then you would ban all machines running Windows from your network.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238077</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1244297820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We're talking about the <b>residential</b> networks here.  In that case, you are indeed paying for network access as part of your rent.  I don't understand why the typical tenant/landlord regulations wouldn't apply.  I'd be <b>livid</b> if my landlord demanded that I install spyware on my computer, and forbid me from seeking internet access elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're talking about the residential networks here .
In that case , you are indeed paying for network access as part of your rent .
I do n't understand why the typical tenant/landlord regulations would n't apply .
I 'd be livid if my landlord demanded that I install spyware on my computer , and forbid me from seeking internet access elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're talking about the residential networks here.
In that case, you are indeed paying for network access as part of your rent.
I don't understand why the typical tenant/landlord regulations wouldn't apply.
I'd be livid if my landlord demanded that I install spyware on my computer, and forbid me from seeking internet access elsewhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235311</id>
	<title>Simple Fix</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244319120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get an old box (p3 will suffice, and add a couple of nics), throw windows on it, and run windows internet connection sharing. Install the client on THAT windows box, and encrypt all of your connections from that box to a similar box located somewhere with clean network.</p><p>Its basically an advanced router with vpn functionality, except you can get an old computer for free instead of shelling out big bucks for a cisco router. Best part is, it shows up to the network as a windows machine and completely legit.</p><p>(You can also add a wireless NIC and make an ad-hoc wireless network)</p><p>I've done this at my school and it works flawlessly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get an old box ( p3 will suffice , and add a couple of nics ) , throw windows on it , and run windows internet connection sharing .
Install the client on THAT windows box , and encrypt all of your connections from that box to a similar box located somewhere with clean network.Its basically an advanced router with vpn functionality , except you can get an old computer for free instead of shelling out big bucks for a cisco router .
Best part is , it shows up to the network as a windows machine and completely legit .
( You can also add a wireless NIC and make an ad-hoc wireless network ) I 've done this at my school and it works flawlessly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get an old box (p3 will suffice, and add a couple of nics), throw windows on it, and run windows internet connection sharing.
Install the client on THAT windows box, and encrypt all of your connections from that box to a similar box located somewhere with clean network.Its basically an advanced router with vpn functionality, except you can get an old computer for free instead of shelling out big bucks for a cisco router.
Best part is, it shows up to the network as a windows machine and completely legit.
(You can also add a wireless NIC and make an ad-hoc wireless network)I've done this at my school and it works flawlessly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236675</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244284800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thank you for demonstrating that most network admins are morons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you for demonstrating that most network admins are morons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you for demonstrating that most network admins are morons.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239831</id>
	<title>Re:It's so simple</title>
	<author>Philip\_the\_physicist</author>
	<datestamp>1244365740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Two further options:
<ul> <li>Build your own external connection. If you use APR, you can get good free wireless coverage off campus as well, and you would be able to share the costs with others.</li><li>fake the client responses, either by hacking the client or by writing your own</li></ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>Two further options : Build your own external connection .
If you use APR , you can get good free wireless coverage off campus as well , and you would be able to share the costs with others.fake the client responses , either by hacking the client or by writing your own</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Two further options:
 Build your own external connection.
If you use APR, you can get good free wireless coverage off campus as well, and you would be able to share the costs with others.fake the client responses, either by hacking the client or by writing your own</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235679</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235025</id>
	<title>There are others who share your concern.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ask the students who go there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ask the students who go there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ask the students who go there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28260625</id>
	<title>Client Security Agents are frequently irrelevant</title>
	<author>jonadab</author>
	<datestamp>1244475720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>&gt; Another concern I have is the 'Client Security Agent' that students are<br>&gt; required to install and leave on their systems to use the network.<br><br>I don't know for sure about the one at your particular college, so YMMV, but in a lot of cases, the enforcement mechanism for Client Security Agents is DHCP.  If you don't have the CSA on your computer reporting that you're all up-to-date and virus free and so forth, the DHCP server won't lease you an IP address or tell you where the nameservers are.<br><br>Really.  I'm not making this up.<br><br>This being a site for computer nerds, I'm not going to explain in detail why that approach won't actually keep anyone who knows what they're doing off the network, other than to note that DHCP is on completely the wrong layer of the OSI model for that.<br><br>I guess these security agents aren't necessarily *entirely* worthless (particularly if they're mostly intended to protect against the zombified PCs of users who aren't entirely sure whether Microsoft XP is their internet service provider or their modem and cannot resist installing the ActiveX controls needed to view the online greeting cards they got in their Hotmail from people claiming to be former classmates of theirs from schools they never attended).  But I sure wouldn't want to run a network that used one of those things as its primary form of protection.</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Another concern I have is the 'Client Security Agent ' that students are &gt; required to install and leave on their systems to use the network.I do n't know for sure about the one at your particular college , so YMMV , but in a lot of cases , the enforcement mechanism for Client Security Agents is DHCP .
If you do n't have the CSA on your computer reporting that you 're all up-to-date and virus free and so forth , the DHCP server wo n't lease you an IP address or tell you where the nameservers are.Really .
I 'm not making this up.This being a site for computer nerds , I 'm not going to explain in detail why that approach wo n't actually keep anyone who knows what they 're doing off the network , other than to note that DHCP is on completely the wrong layer of the OSI model for that.I guess these security agents are n't necessarily * entirely * worthless ( particularly if they 're mostly intended to protect against the zombified PCs of users who are n't entirely sure whether Microsoft XP is their internet service provider or their modem and can not resist installing the ActiveX controls needed to view the online greeting cards they got in their Hotmail from people claiming to be former classmates of theirs from schools they never attended ) .
But I sure would n't want to run a network that used one of those things as its primary form of protection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Another concern I have is the 'Client Security Agent' that students are&gt; required to install and leave on their systems to use the network.I don't know for sure about the one at your particular college, so YMMV, but in a lot of cases, the enforcement mechanism for Client Security Agents is DHCP.
If you don't have the CSA on your computer reporting that you're all up-to-date and virus free and so forth, the DHCP server won't lease you an IP address or tell you where the nameservers are.Really.
I'm not making this up.This being a site for computer nerds, I'm not going to explain in detail why that approach won't actually keep anyone who knows what they're doing off the network, other than to note that DHCP is on completely the wrong layer of the OSI model for that.I guess these security agents aren't necessarily *entirely* worthless (particularly if they're mostly intended to protect against the zombified PCs of users who aren't entirely sure whether Microsoft XP is their internet service provider or their modem and cannot resist installing the ActiveX controls needed to view the online greeting cards they got in their Hotmail from people claiming to be former classmates of theirs from schools they never attended).
But I sure wouldn't want to run a network that used one of those things as its primary form of protection.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28255537</id>
	<title>Don't use your college as your ISP?</title>
	<author>JerryLove</author>
	<datestamp>1244452260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get an air-card or (unless you are in the dorms) your local cable comapny.</p><p>Obviously there are any number of more complex options:</p><p>- You could date/bribe/extort someone in IT into exempting you.</p><p>- If the network will accept connections without this app, you could use any number of tactics to not run it (remove it, run an incompatable OS (do they have an Amegia Workbench version?), Run Black-ICE to toggle off functionality, block it at the firewall.</p><p>- If the client is required to connect, you could setup the client on a proxy server and attach through that using your real box.</p><p>It's worth noting that your useage can be monitored whether you have installed software on your PC or not (that's what a network sniffer is for). The only way around that would be to establish an encrypted connection to something outside their WAN and use it as a proxy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get an air-card or ( unless you are in the dorms ) your local cable comapny.Obviously there are any number of more complex options : - You could date/bribe/extort someone in IT into exempting you.- If the network will accept connections without this app , you could use any number of tactics to not run it ( remove it , run an incompatable OS ( do they have an Amegia Workbench version ?
) , Run Black-ICE to toggle off functionality , block it at the firewall.- If the client is required to connect , you could setup the client on a proxy server and attach through that using your real box.It 's worth noting that your useage can be monitored whether you have installed software on your PC or not ( that 's what a network sniffer is for ) .
The only way around that would be to establish an encrypted connection to something outside their WAN and use it as a proxy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get an air-card or (unless you are in the dorms) your local cable comapny.Obviously there are any number of more complex options:- You could date/bribe/extort someone in IT into exempting you.- If the network will accept connections without this app, you could use any number of tactics to not run it (remove it, run an incompatable OS (do they have an Amegia Workbench version?
), Run Black-ICE to toggle off functionality, block it at the firewall.- If the client is required to connect, you could setup the client on a proxy server and attach through that using your real box.It's worth noting that your useage can be monitored whether you have installed software on your PC or not (that's what a network sniffer is for).
The only way around that would be to establish an encrypted connection to something outside their WAN and use it as a proxy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234983</id>
	<title>Client Page.</title>
	<author>themassiah</author>
	<datestamp>1244317440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The client page says exactly what the client will do when it's installed.  Nothing about sniffing traffic, scanning your hard drives, etc.  Perhaps you could voice your concern to the HelpDesk or network engineers?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The client page says exactly what the client will do when it 's installed .
Nothing about sniffing traffic , scanning your hard drives , etc .
Perhaps you could voice your concern to the HelpDesk or network engineers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The client page says exactly what the client will do when it's installed.
Nothing about sniffing traffic, scanning your hard drives, etc.
Perhaps you could voice your concern to the HelpDesk or network engineers?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236979</id>
	<title>Linux?</title>
	<author>t2000kw</author>
	<datestamp>1244287560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some here suggested using Linux, which is a good idea if the college permits it. If they don't permit it, what about installing Wine or Crossover Office and set up a few Windows programs using that, including their snooper tool? Then you could surf from within Linux. I would think that their snooper tool would get caught in the synthetic Windows system created by the Wine installation and never see beyond there.

Or, as others have suggested, you can run virtual machine software to run Windows in Linux, or vice-versa. Ubuntu even installs into Windows, but I never tried doing it that way. Or run XP in Vista with a virtual machine. That should allow you to hide at least part of your system from the spy software.

Another thought crossed my mind also. Why not use your connected PC as a gateway to the Internet and connect to it from another PC that doesn't permit file sharing? You could use an older Windows system to do the connecting and set up a second Ethernet card in it and connect through the gateway PC to the college network. I don't know if their software would allow for that or not.

Perhaps you can use a router as long as one PC has the software on it?

You do have options, and you can probably beat the system with some of the suggestions here. If you ask too many questions, though, of the IT people there, you may cause some trouble for yourself.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some here suggested using Linux , which is a good idea if the college permits it .
If they do n't permit it , what about installing Wine or Crossover Office and set up a few Windows programs using that , including their snooper tool ?
Then you could surf from within Linux .
I would think that their snooper tool would get caught in the synthetic Windows system created by the Wine installation and never see beyond there .
Or , as others have suggested , you can run virtual machine software to run Windows in Linux , or vice-versa .
Ubuntu even installs into Windows , but I never tried doing it that way .
Or run XP in Vista with a virtual machine .
That should allow you to hide at least part of your system from the spy software .
Another thought crossed my mind also .
Why not use your connected PC as a gateway to the Internet and connect to it from another PC that does n't permit file sharing ?
You could use an older Windows system to do the connecting and set up a second Ethernet card in it and connect through the gateway PC to the college network .
I do n't know if their software would allow for that or not .
Perhaps you can use a router as long as one PC has the software on it ?
You do have options , and you can probably beat the system with some of the suggestions here .
If you ask too many questions , though , of the IT people there , you may cause some trouble for yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some here suggested using Linux, which is a good idea if the college permits it.
If they don't permit it, what about installing Wine or Crossover Office and set up a few Windows programs using that, including their snooper tool?
Then you could surf from within Linux.
I would think that their snooper tool would get caught in the synthetic Windows system created by the Wine installation and never see beyond there.
Or, as others have suggested, you can run virtual machine software to run Windows in Linux, or vice-versa.
Ubuntu even installs into Windows, but I never tried doing it that way.
Or run XP in Vista with a virtual machine.
That should allow you to hide at least part of your system from the spy software.
Another thought crossed my mind also.
Why not use your connected PC as a gateway to the Internet and connect to it from another PC that doesn't permit file sharing?
You could use an older Windows system to do the connecting and set up a second Ethernet card in it and connect through the gateway PC to the college network.
I don't know if their software would allow for that or not.
Perhaps you can use a router as long as one PC has the software on it?
You do have options, and you can probably beat the system with some of the suggestions here.
If you ask too many questions, though, of the IT people there, you may cause some trouble for yourself.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236849</id>
	<title>That sucks...</title>
	<author>bemymonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1244286120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's pretty different over here in Germany. We don't have a campus, but the local technical university (RWTH Aachen) provides internet access to most of the student appartment complexes (there's quite a few of 'em) and WiFi access points all over the city (basically if you're downtown, you can get a signal at least 50\% of the time). Quite a few ports are blocked (pretty much everything non-standard), but you don't have to install any software and it's hella fast (IIRC the university has its own connection right into a backbone - or something like that - I just remember making a hell of a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:o face when I realized my download speeds from Rapidshare were being capped by the 100mbit ethernet connection...).</p><p>Now, there's a \_lot\_ of students on that network. Everyone working or studying at the university has access. All you need to do is connect to the WiFi network (authentication via certificate and PEAP) via any old wireless client (hell, even my WM6.1 phone works)... I'd estimate that the whole network has 10k+ users - now how do they manage to do all this without using client scanning software? I'm sure there's a lot of malware-infected systems on the network, but the network seems to be secure enough to handle it. Maybe it's just a question of competent IT staff?</p><p>I'm not exactly up-to-date on the technical side of securing a network, but as far as I can tell, it's possible without the massive intrusion upon users' privacy that's described in the summary...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's pretty different over here in Germany .
We do n't have a campus , but the local technical university ( RWTH Aachen ) provides internet access to most of the student appartment complexes ( there 's quite a few of 'em ) and WiFi access points all over the city ( basically if you 're downtown , you can get a signal at least 50 \ % of the time ) .
Quite a few ports are blocked ( pretty much everything non-standard ) , but you do n't have to install any software and it 's hella fast ( IIRC the university has its own connection right into a backbone - or something like that - I just remember making a hell of a : o face when I realized my download speeds from Rapidshare were being capped by the 100mbit ethernet connection... ) .Now , there 's a \ _lot \ _ of students on that network .
Everyone working or studying at the university has access .
All you need to do is connect to the WiFi network ( authentication via certificate and PEAP ) via any old wireless client ( hell , even my WM6.1 phone works ) ... I 'd estimate that the whole network has 10k + users - now how do they manage to do all this without using client scanning software ?
I 'm sure there 's a lot of malware-infected systems on the network , but the network seems to be secure enough to handle it .
Maybe it 's just a question of competent IT staff ? I 'm not exactly up-to-date on the technical side of securing a network , but as far as I can tell , it 's possible without the massive intrusion upon users ' privacy that 's described in the summary.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's pretty different over here in Germany.
We don't have a campus, but the local technical university (RWTH Aachen) provides internet access to most of the student appartment complexes (there's quite a few of 'em) and WiFi access points all over the city (basically if you're downtown, you can get a signal at least 50\% of the time).
Quite a few ports are blocked (pretty much everything non-standard), but you don't have to install any software and it's hella fast (IIRC the university has its own connection right into a backbone - or something like that - I just remember making a hell of a :o face when I realized my download speeds from Rapidshare were being capped by the 100mbit ethernet connection...).Now, there's a \_lot\_ of students on that network.
Everyone working or studying at the university has access.
All you need to do is connect to the WiFi network (authentication via certificate and PEAP) via any old wireless client (hell, even my WM6.1 phone works)... I'd estimate that the whole network has 10k+ users - now how do they manage to do all this without using client scanning software?
I'm sure there's a lot of malware-infected systems on the network, but the network seems to be secure enough to handle it.
Maybe it's just a question of competent IT staff?I'm not exactly up-to-date on the technical side of securing a network, but as far as I can tell, it's possible without the massive intrusion upon users' privacy that's described in the summary...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236897</id>
	<title>Re:Whoa what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244286540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>From the first link:</p><blockquote><div><p>The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMU unless the contents are licensed software, licensed databases (e.g., InfoShare), intellectual property owned by others, or protected by CMU's Intellectual Property Rights Policy. The university has the right of access to the contents at any time for any legitimate purpose including moving or deleting files to preserve system security and performance, or examining files when there is a legitimate "need to know."</p></div></blockquote><p>"If you use our network, we own what's on your hard drives. Thanks!"</p></div><p>It says all storage media associated with OIT facilities. Wouldn't that then only apply to work being done on college computers?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From the first link : The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMU unless the contents are licensed software , licensed databases ( e.g. , InfoShare ) , intellectual property owned by others , or protected by CMU 's Intellectual Property Rights Policy .
The university has the right of access to the contents at any time for any legitimate purpose including moving or deleting files to preserve system security and performance , or examining files when there is a legitimate " need to know .
" " If you use our network , we own what 's on your hard drives .
Thanks ! " It says all storage media associated with OIT facilities .
Would n't that then only apply to work being done on college computers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the first link:The contents of all storage media associated with OIT facilities may be considered property of CMU unless the contents are licensed software, licensed databases (e.g., InfoShare), intellectual property owned by others, or protected by CMU's Intellectual Property Rights Policy.
The university has the right of access to the contents at any time for any legitimate purpose including moving or deleting files to preserve system security and performance, or examining files when there is a legitimate "need to know.
""If you use our network, we own what's on your hard drives.
Thanks!"It says all storage media associated with OIT facilities.
Wouldn't that then only apply to work being done on college computers?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235005</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235479</id>
	<title>The other half</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244319900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A lot of folks have jumped in about running the client in VMware, and that's good advice.  The other half of the solution, though, is to create an off-campus proxy and run an SSL tunnel to it.  That way, nobody on the campus has to see what you're doing.  The trick to making this economical is to find a bunch of other students with similar concerns, one of whom lives off campus with a decent connect.  Pool your resources and share the proxy.</p><p>This is also my standard advice for working in most modern, big software companies, except for the pooling part.  Their IT doesn't want to know what you surf, not really, and you don't want them to either.  Make everybody happy - securely tunnel to a proxy at home.  For proxies, I've only ever run squid.  Set it up to only proxy from localhost, and create an SSL tunnel.  putty can do this, I'm sure more substantial programs exist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of folks have jumped in about running the client in VMware , and that 's good advice .
The other half of the solution , though , is to create an off-campus proxy and run an SSL tunnel to it .
That way , nobody on the campus has to see what you 're doing .
The trick to making this economical is to find a bunch of other students with similar concerns , one of whom lives off campus with a decent connect .
Pool your resources and share the proxy.This is also my standard advice for working in most modern , big software companies , except for the pooling part .
Their IT does n't want to know what you surf , not really , and you do n't want them to either .
Make everybody happy - securely tunnel to a proxy at home .
For proxies , I 've only ever run squid .
Set it up to only proxy from localhost , and create an SSL tunnel .
putty can do this , I 'm sure more substantial programs exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of folks have jumped in about running the client in VMware, and that's good advice.
The other half of the solution, though, is to create an off-campus proxy and run an SSL tunnel to it.
That way, nobody on the campus has to see what you're doing.
The trick to making this economical is to find a bunch of other students with similar concerns, one of whom lives off campus with a decent connect.
Pool your resources and share the proxy.This is also my standard advice for working in most modern, big software companies, except for the pooling part.
Their IT doesn't want to know what you surf, not really, and you don't want them to either.
Make everybody happy - securely tunnel to a proxy at home.
For proxies, I've only ever run squid.
Set it up to only proxy from localhost, and create an SSL tunnel.
putty can do this, I'm sure more substantial programs exist.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238407</id>
	<title>So sad for you!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244301420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm going to Central Michigan University in the fall. Upon examination of their poorly organized network usage policies, I'm worried that using their internet service will expose my web browsing habits, emails, and most importantly, passwords.</p></div><p>If you think that sucks, just thing of the restrictions and policies your future employer will be putting on you when you connect to THEIR network!  And if you don't like it?  FIRED, with no way to pay for your mortgage or your kid's clothing.  Your wife runs off, and you end up working part time at Home Depot selling CAT5 cable to idiots.  You eat a Big Mac every day for 15 years until you end up in the hospital without insurance coverage.  The ER cardiologist happens to be your ex-wife's husband, and your kids call him "dad" and your son just got his hand-me-down Porsche for his 18th birthday.</p><p>Trust me, it ain't pretty.  Been there, done that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm going to Central Michigan University in the fall .
Upon examination of their poorly organized network usage policies , I 'm worried that using their internet service will expose my web browsing habits , emails , and most importantly , passwords.If you think that sucks , just thing of the restrictions and policies your future employer will be putting on you when you connect to THEIR network !
And if you do n't like it ?
FIRED , with no way to pay for your mortgage or your kid 's clothing .
Your wife runs off , and you end up working part time at Home Depot selling CAT5 cable to idiots .
You eat a Big Mac every day for 15 years until you end up in the hospital without insurance coverage .
The ER cardiologist happens to be your ex-wife 's husband , and your kids call him " dad " and your son just got his hand-me-down Porsche for his 18th birthday.Trust me , it ai n't pretty .
Been there , done that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm going to Central Michigan University in the fall.
Upon examination of their poorly organized network usage policies, I'm worried that using their internet service will expose my web browsing habits, emails, and most importantly, passwords.If you think that sucks, just thing of the restrictions and policies your future employer will be putting on you when you connect to THEIR network!
And if you don't like it?
FIRED, with no way to pay for your mortgage or your kid's clothing.
Your wife runs off, and you end up working part time at Home Depot selling CAT5 cable to idiots.
You eat a Big Mac every day for 15 years until you end up in the hospital without insurance coverage.
The ER cardiologist happens to be your ex-wife's husband, and your kids call him "dad" and your son just got his hand-me-down Porsche for his 18th birthday.Trust me, it ain't pretty.
Been there, done that.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235765</id>
	<title>my college</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My  college just blocks simultaneous uploading and downloading or downloading from many different IP's  at the same time.</p><p>That is just insane....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My college just blocks simultaneous uploading and downloading or downloading from many different IP 's at the same time.That is just insane... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My  college just blocks simultaneous uploading and downloading or downloading from many different IP's  at the same time.That is just insane....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235541</id>
	<title>Router</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244320260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bring a router. If you're lucky your school will have a system to register "Game" machines via their MAC address. In other words it white lists the address.</p><p>Then just have the router clone your "game" machine's MAC address and you're good.</p><p>That's how I got around my schools. Although it was Clean Access based.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bring a router .
If you 're lucky your school will have a system to register " Game " machines via their MAC address .
In other words it white lists the address.Then just have the router clone your " game " machine 's MAC address and you 're good.That 's how I got around my schools .
Although it was Clean Access based .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bring a router.
If you're lucky your school will have a system to register "Game" machines via their MAC address.
In other words it white lists the address.Then just have the router clone your "game" machine's MAC address and you're good.That's how I got around my schools.
Although it was Clean Access based.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235887</id>
	<title>Re:It's no worse than being at work</title>
	<author>jimicus</author>
	<datestamp>1244279100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.</p></div><p>In a manner of speaking, the OP is.</p><p>But it's a mite different here.</p><p>I'd say the lesson is that "nobody cares about your problem unless you can make it theirs as well".  If they set up policies which you disagree with, that's your problem.</p><p>If you can get a significant proportion of the media to investigate this and publish it, suddenly it's their problem as well.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the real world , if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.In a manner of speaking , the OP is.But it 's a mite different here.I 'd say the lesson is that " nobody cares about your problem unless you can make it theirs as well " .
If they set up policies which you disagree with , that 's your problem.If you can get a significant proportion of the media to investigate this and publish it , suddenly it 's their problem as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.In a manner of speaking, the OP is.But it's a mite different here.I'd say the lesson is that "nobody cares about your problem unless you can make it theirs as well".
If they set up policies which you disagree with, that's your problem.If you can get a significant proportion of the media to investigate this and publish it, suddenly it's their problem as well.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235967</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244279640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uh, actually, most of the school's operating budget comes from (1) research grants, mostly from federal agencies, (2) federal and state money going directly to the university, (3) endowment, if any, (4) alumni donations and private companies. Public or private, universities care first and foremost about their research, whatever they say in the admission package notwithstanding. Neither the professors nor their funders (see above) have a lot of patience when there are thousands of little spam factories on the uni network slowing everyone down (and probably worse things too associated with the horde of zombiebots).</p><p>To the original poster: some of the tips that have been suggested will probably work. Better yet, you can probably find someone on campus that managed to circumvent it to your satisfaction. But if you're going to do that, you're taking responsibility for keeping your computer clean. Deal?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh , actually , most of the school 's operating budget comes from ( 1 ) research grants , mostly from federal agencies , ( 2 ) federal and state money going directly to the university , ( 3 ) endowment , if any , ( 4 ) alumni donations and private companies .
Public or private , universities care first and foremost about their research , whatever they say in the admission package notwithstanding .
Neither the professors nor their funders ( see above ) have a lot of patience when there are thousands of little spam factories on the uni network slowing everyone down ( and probably worse things too associated with the horde of zombiebots ) .To the original poster : some of the tips that have been suggested will probably work .
Better yet , you can probably find someone on campus that managed to circumvent it to your satisfaction .
But if you 're going to do that , you 're taking responsibility for keeping your computer clean .
Deal ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh, actually, most of the school's operating budget comes from (1) research grants, mostly from federal agencies, (2) federal and state money going directly to the university, (3) endowment, if any, (4) alumni donations and private companies.
Public or private, universities care first and foremost about their research, whatever they say in the admission package notwithstanding.
Neither the professors nor their funders (see above) have a lot of patience when there are thousands of little spam factories on the uni network slowing everyone down (and probably worse things too associated with the horde of zombiebots).To the original poster: some of the tips that have been suggested will probably work.
Better yet, you can probably find someone on campus that managed to circumvent it to your satisfaction.
But if you're going to do that, you're taking responsibility for keeping your computer clean.
Deal?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236405</id>
	<title>Re:Waaah.</title>
	<author>Repossessed</author>
	<datestamp>1244282640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The university is also the landlord for many students.  If he lives offsite the solution is obviously not to use their network,  and to use lab systems when he has to.  If he lives in the dorms he has no such option.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The university is also the landlord for many students .
If he lives offsite the solution is obviously not to use their network , and to use lab systems when he has to .
If he lives in the dorms he has no such option .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The university is also the landlord for many students.
If he lives offsite the solution is obviously not to use their network,  and to use lab systems when he has to.
If he lives in the dorms he has no such option.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239907</id>
	<title>UofT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244367660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The University of Toronto just gives you a program to run that injects a fake virus and makes sure you have anti-virus software installed. Then they register your MAC address I think and you get to use it for the rest of the semester.</p><p>they also give out free AV software which is nice,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The University of Toronto just gives you a program to run that injects a fake virus and makes sure you have anti-virus software installed .
Then they register your MAC address I think and you get to use it for the rest of the semester.they also give out free AV software which is nice,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The University of Toronto just gives you a program to run that injects a fake virus and makes sure you have anti-virus software installed.
Then they register your MAC address I think and you get to use it for the rest of the semester.they also give out free AV software which is nice,</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237041</id>
	<title>Re:Waaah.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244288160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security (and if you're asking us, you aren't), you will not outsmart your school's IT department.</p> </div><p>It's not really that hard to bypass school's IT departments... and remember false sense of security leads to bigger mistakes.</p><p>Second, i think there's not really the point for such extra-measures in an university, they should teach and instruct that's their purpouse. If their students aren't able to understand the need of being worm-free, they aren't respecting policies, then action should be taking place (After the ofense).<br>If students have to get ready to be released in "world of business" they should learn policies and  that rules are to be followed.</p><p>More important is a form of authentication so you can deny (and identify student)  access to network and if some policies are broken take action or instruct them by your guidelines!</p><p>Come on, you don't need to access users OS's to be alerted and take action (automatically) , just isolate them from network<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and yes,that doesn't require an App.</p><p>Users will always get around, they'll search slashdot (cool), or they'll go to search their answer using their outdated buggy IE on some "dubious" website that will infect them with malware. (just because of policies)</p><p>Users are not your enemies, careless users are (special when they decide to ignore IT)!</p><p>[just to note, i also used to work on campus IT ]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security ( and if you 're asking us , you are n't ) , you will not outsmart your school 's IT department .
It 's not really that hard to bypass school 's IT departments... and remember false sense of security leads to bigger mistakes.Second , i think there 's not really the point for such extra-measures in an university , they should teach and instruct that 's their purpouse .
If their students are n't able to understand the need of being worm-free , they are n't respecting policies , then action should be taking place ( After the ofense ) .If students have to get ready to be released in " world of business " they should learn policies and that rules are to be followed.More important is a form of authentication so you can deny ( and identify student ) access to network and if some policies are broken take action or instruct them by your guidelines ! Come on , you do n't need to access users OS 's to be alerted and take action ( automatically ) , just isolate them from network ... and yes,that does n't require an App.Users will always get around , they 'll search slashdot ( cool ) , or they 'll go to search their answer using their outdated buggy IE on some " dubious " website that will infect them with malware .
( just because of policies ) Users are not your enemies , careless users are ( special when they decide to ignore IT ) !
[ just to note , i also used to work on campus IT ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security (and if you're asking us, you aren't), you will not outsmart your school's IT department.
It's not really that hard to bypass school's IT departments... and remember false sense of security leads to bigger mistakes.Second, i think there's not really the point for such extra-measures in an university, they should teach and instruct that's their purpouse.
If their students aren't able to understand the need of being worm-free, they aren't respecting policies, then action should be taking place (After the ofense).If students have to get ready to be released in "world of business" they should learn policies and  that rules are to be followed.More important is a form of authentication so you can deny (and identify student)  access to network and if some policies are broken take action or instruct them by your guidelines!Come on, you don't need to access users OS's to be alerted and take action (automatically) , just isolate them from network ... and yes,that doesn't require an App.Users will always get around, they'll search slashdot (cool), or they'll go to search their answer using their outdated buggy IE on some "dubious" website that will infect them with malware.
(just because of policies)Users are not your enemies, careless users are (special when they decide to ignore IT)!
[just to note, i also used to work on campus IT ]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238801</id>
	<title>Re:Linux</title>
	<author>celle</author>
	<datestamp>1244305740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then tell them I'm paying for this university so fix your network.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then tell them I 'm paying for this university so fix your network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then tell them I'm paying for this university so fix your network.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235077</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237475</id>
	<title>Internet Service Provider</title>
	<author>starfishsystems</author>
	<datestamp>1244292540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Okay, as the person who wrote the first implementation of my university's longstanding Accepable Use Policy, let me ask a fundamental question:<blockquote><div><p>In what manner are student's personal systems permitted to access the Central Michigan University network that is different from how a hundred million ISP customers access the Internet?</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
If there <i>is</i> no difference, then <b>the university doesn't have a better case for control over theses personal systems than any ISP does</b>.  Yes, in order to fairly deliver the network service to its customers, the ISP or the university may control bandwidth or cap usage or perform other kinds of traffic shaping.  Yes, it may monitor traffic for this purpose.  There is no reasonable expectation of privacy when exposing such traffic on the network.  There is also no reasonable expectation for these personal systems to be trusted.  An appropriate policy would grant access to the network under these terms.  Many universities do this, and treat this part of the network in <i>every</i> respect as an extension of the Internet.  This is an effective policy.
<br> <br>
If on the other hand these personal systems <i>are</i> being granted some degree of trust or privilege merely by virtue of their presence on the university network, then we clearly see a <b>misdesigned network and a corresponding misapplication of policy</b>.  There are parts of <i>any</i> organizational network that people don't get to just plug random equipment into.  So don't sell access to these networks to the student population.  Duh.  If a research group wants to attach its supercomputer cluster to the Teragrid infrastructure, for example, it should be subject to a restrictive usage policy.  That's the kind of scenario that most universities, including mine, envisioned when we drafted our usage policy.  The same for an outside consultant who needs connectivity to the administrative servers in order to perform software integration.  But this sort of policy would be completely inappropriate for a student who is simply getting an Internet connection through university facilities.
<br> <br>
So how about the following proposal for the university to consider?   How about you <i>don't</i> give every student a bomb and you <i>don't</i> then require them to submit to random strip searches because of the increased security risk that you brought upon yourself?  It's easy to avoid the whole problem in the first place.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , as the person who wrote the first implementation of my university 's longstanding Accepable Use Policy , let me ask a fundamental question : In what manner are student 's personal systems permitted to access the Central Michigan University network that is different from how a hundred million ISP customers access the Internet ?
If there is no difference , then the university does n't have a better case for control over theses personal systems than any ISP does .
Yes , in order to fairly deliver the network service to its customers , the ISP or the university may control bandwidth or cap usage or perform other kinds of traffic shaping .
Yes , it may monitor traffic for this purpose .
There is no reasonable expectation of privacy when exposing such traffic on the network .
There is also no reasonable expectation for these personal systems to be trusted .
An appropriate policy would grant access to the network under these terms .
Many universities do this , and treat this part of the network in every respect as an extension of the Internet .
This is an effective policy .
If on the other hand these personal systems are being granted some degree of trust or privilege merely by virtue of their presence on the university network , then we clearly see a misdesigned network and a corresponding misapplication of policy .
There are parts of any organizational network that people do n't get to just plug random equipment into .
So do n't sell access to these networks to the student population .
Duh. If a research group wants to attach its supercomputer cluster to the Teragrid infrastructure , for example , it should be subject to a restrictive usage policy .
That 's the kind of scenario that most universities , including mine , envisioned when we drafted our usage policy .
The same for an outside consultant who needs connectivity to the administrative servers in order to perform software integration .
But this sort of policy would be completely inappropriate for a student who is simply getting an Internet connection through university facilities .
So how about the following proposal for the university to consider ?
How about you do n't give every student a bomb and you do n't then require them to submit to random strip searches because of the increased security risk that you brought upon yourself ?
It 's easy to avoid the whole problem in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, as the person who wrote the first implementation of my university's longstanding Accepable Use Policy, let me ask a fundamental question:In what manner are student's personal systems permitted to access the Central Michigan University network that is different from how a hundred million ISP customers access the Internet?
If there is no difference, then the university doesn't have a better case for control over theses personal systems than any ISP does.
Yes, in order to fairly deliver the network service to its customers, the ISP or the university may control bandwidth or cap usage or perform other kinds of traffic shaping.
Yes, it may monitor traffic for this purpose.
There is no reasonable expectation of privacy when exposing such traffic on the network.
There is also no reasonable expectation for these personal systems to be trusted.
An appropriate policy would grant access to the network under these terms.
Many universities do this, and treat this part of the network in every respect as an extension of the Internet.
This is an effective policy.
If on the other hand these personal systems are being granted some degree of trust or privilege merely by virtue of their presence on the university network, then we clearly see a misdesigned network and a corresponding misapplication of policy.
There are parts of any organizational network that people don't get to just plug random equipment into.
So don't sell access to these networks to the student population.
Duh.  If a research group wants to attach its supercomputer cluster to the Teragrid infrastructure, for example, it should be subject to a restrictive usage policy.
That's the kind of scenario that most universities, including mine, envisioned when we drafted our usage policy.
The same for an outside consultant who needs connectivity to the administrative servers in order to perform software integration.
But this sort of policy would be completely inappropriate for a student who is simply getting an Internet connection through university facilities.
So how about the following proposal for the university to consider?
How about you don't give every student a bomb and you don't then require them to submit to random strip searches because of the increased security risk that you brought upon yourself?
It's easy to avoid the whole problem in the first place.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235959</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244279580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't help but feel you might not have explored all of the available options.  Some campuses have competent administrators and use traffic shaping and network level threat detection (with auto-shutoff).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't help but feel you might not have explored all of the available options .
Some campuses have competent administrators and use traffic shaping and network level threat detection ( with auto-shutoff ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't help but feel you might not have explored all of the available options.
Some campuses have competent administrators and use traffic shaping and network level threat detection (with auto-shutoff).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237705</id>
	<title>Re:common, not good</title>
	<author>jonwil</author>
	<datestamp>1244294580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Living off campus is not always an option if you are at one of the colleges that have the (IMO brain dead) policy that new students must live on campus for the first few years (why do they have such stupid policies anyway?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Living off campus is not always an option if you are at one of the colleges that have the ( IMO brain dead ) policy that new students must live on campus for the first few years ( why do they have such stupid policies anyway ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Living off campus is not always an option if you are at one of the colleges that have the (IMO brain dead) policy that new students must live on campus for the first few years (why do they have such stupid policies anyway?
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235473</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235161</id>
	<title>Solution!</title>
	<author>DaveV1.0</author>
	<datestamp>1244318220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't use the university's network.</p><p>Problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't use the university 's network.Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't use the university's network.Problem solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235829</id>
	<title>Re:It's no worse than being at work</title>
	<author>rob1980</author>
	<datestamp>1244278860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.</i> <br> <br>Well he is paying to live in the dorm, so what's your point?</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the real world , if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself .
Well he is paying to live in the dorm , so what 's your point ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself.
Well he is paying to live in the dorm, so what's your point?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235453</id>
	<title>Re:Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244319780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My university(Ohio State), tried implementing similar policies last year.  They rolled it out to some portion of the student population and said at the forefront that anyone running Mac or Linux was exempt.</p><p>Turns out, a couple weeks in and they completely dropped the policy.</p><p>On a related note: Some how, when you connect to the residential network, they can detect some botnet signatures on your machine and will deny you access. Your mac address is blacklisted until you reformat. It runs some utility to make sure you actually have reinstalled before they restore your access.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My university ( Ohio State ) , tried implementing similar policies last year .
They rolled it out to some portion of the student population and said at the forefront that anyone running Mac or Linux was exempt.Turns out , a couple weeks in and they completely dropped the policy.On a related note : Some how , when you connect to the residential network , they can detect some botnet signatures on your machine and will deny you access .
Your mac address is blacklisted until you reformat .
It runs some utility to make sure you actually have reinstalled before they restore your access .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My university(Ohio State), tried implementing similar policies last year.
They rolled it out to some portion of the student population and said at the forefront that anyone running Mac or Linux was exempt.Turns out, a couple weeks in and they completely dropped the policy.On a related note: Some how, when you connect to the residential network, they can detect some botnet signatures on your machine and will deny you access.
Your mac address is blacklisted until you reformat.
It runs some utility to make sure you actually have reinstalled before they restore your access.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234883</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28245561</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>sladeslader</author>
	<datestamp>1244380740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>hughesnet.com</htmltext>
<tokenext>hughesnet.com</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hughesnet.com</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237185</id>
	<title>If you aren't at a^2</title>
	<author>grolaw</author>
	<datestamp>1244289540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you have no business going to any school in Michigan.  Git the south. One hears of the MITs and CALTECHs and even UM Rollas - all far, far better (and, warmer) schools than that lame-a** Central rust belt state school.  Ye gods, man - what were you drinking when you applied?</p><p>Let them know the price of their poor networks (and save yourself the price of a poor education) by LEAVING!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you have no business going to any school in Michigan .
Git the south .
One hears of the MITs and CALTECHs and even UM Rollas - all far , far better ( and , warmer ) schools than that lame-a * * Central rust belt state school .
Ye gods , man - what were you drinking when you applied ? Let them know the price of their poor networks ( and save yourself the price of a poor education ) by LEAVING !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you have no business going to any school in Michigan.
Git the south.
One hears of the MITs and CALTECHs and even UM Rollas - all far, far better (and, warmer) schools than that lame-a** Central rust belt state school.
Ye gods, man - what were you drinking when you applied?Let them know the price of their poor networks (and save yourself the price of a poor education) by LEAVING!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235001</id>
	<title>Virtualization? CoLinux?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That they disable bridging is really the killer, here. The obvious answer is to turn the 'campus facing' machine into nothing more than a gateway, and you can't do that. I'd also like to point out that this stupid program makes it harder for you to run any OS except windows. Are you sure this school is okay?</p><p>That said, what about running linux and keeping this program inside of a vmware instance. Alternately, you could do the opposite: Accept that the stupid program will be running on your machine and see if a CoLinux tap would still work, at which point the machine is merely a host for another kernel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That they disable bridging is really the killer , here .
The obvious answer is to turn the 'campus facing ' machine into nothing more than a gateway , and you ca n't do that .
I 'd also like to point out that this stupid program makes it harder for you to run any OS except windows .
Are you sure this school is okay ? That said , what about running linux and keeping this program inside of a vmware instance .
Alternately , you could do the opposite : Accept that the stupid program will be running on your machine and see if a CoLinux tap would still work , at which point the machine is merely a host for another kernel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That they disable bridging is really the killer, here.
The obvious answer is to turn the 'campus facing' machine into nothing more than a gateway, and you can't do that.
I'd also like to point out that this stupid program makes it harder for you to run any OS except windows.
Are you sure this school is okay?That said, what about running linux and keeping this program inside of a vmware instance.
Alternately, you could do the opposite: Accept that the stupid program will be running on your machine and see if a CoLinux tap would still work, at which point the machine is merely a host for another kernel.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236807</id>
	<title>Re:Waaah.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244285760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually given what I've read the concept of security in this instance is a joke. As someone else noted its basic CYA or a step above (ie due diligence) and doesnt take much to bypass. In other words its EXACTLY like high school. The few schools with good policies and attitudes around this arena are generally schools with a large engineering contingent (ie MT or Cal Berkeley).</p><p>That being said its not "their network", the students are paying (often a lot) for that access. You however work in tech support, your job is to be the bottom rung (Given your attitude: asshat) who deals with stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually given what I 've read the concept of security in this instance is a joke .
As someone else noted its basic CYA or a step above ( ie due diligence ) and doesnt take much to bypass .
In other words its EXACTLY like high school .
The few schools with good policies and attitudes around this arena are generally schools with a large engineering contingent ( ie MT or Cal Berkeley ) .That being said its not " their network " , the students are paying ( often a lot ) for that access .
You however work in tech support , your job is to be the bottom rung ( Given your attitude : asshat ) who deals with stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually given what I've read the concept of security in this instance is a joke.
As someone else noted its basic CYA or a step above (ie due diligence) and doesnt take much to bypass.
In other words its EXACTLY like high school.
The few schools with good policies and attitudes around this arena are generally schools with a large engineering contingent (ie MT or Cal Berkeley).That being said its not "their network", the students are paying (often a lot) for that access.
You however work in tech support, your job is to be the bottom rung (Given your attitude: asshat) who deals with stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28323527</id>
	<title>CMU Student here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244898540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am a current CMU student who just moved out of the dorms.  I cannot tell you the amount frustration I had with the IT department and registering my computers.  (Get ready for some headaches)  The best thing I can tell you is install the sh*\%y antivirus run the stupid test thing and do a system restore on your comp to undo the installation of mcafee. (But this still sucks because even upon uninstalling crap is still in your registry etc.  Also they did support AVG as an alternative.  Unfortunatley they did not support Avira Antivir.</p><p>Ohh and another thing get ready for a WEEKLY BANDWITH CAP of 5 gigs!  Good luck trying to keep your steam apps up to date.  The bad part is when you do go over this limit you have to restart the whole process of running their security crap.</p><p>On the up side my p2p sharing was great.  You will find the internet is blazingly fast (assuming you get through the hoops to use it) and they did not block any p2p ports/programs/traffic that I am aware of.</p><p>I had 2 comps running (1 Win XP and 1 Vista/Ubuntu).  They make you have SP3 for xp and all the updated definitions for your antivirus (which by the way is stupid because you can't go and download them till you get online but you can't go online till they are updated).  See the problem here...what came first the chicken or the egg.  Not sure what vista updates were needed.<br>As for my Ubuntu installation.  You are still under the 5 gig restriction but if I remember correctly you don't have to run the CSA bulls*&amp;t.</p><p>Here are a few tips for the MANY times I called the IT help desk.<br>-You get 1 free reset a semester if you go over the limit.<br>-Try telling them you have a problem running the CSA thing that its trying to detect Mcafee as your antivirus instead of AVG (of course this can be BS and you can have neither) Say something like I had one installed and I switched and its still trying to detect Mcafee.  The guy I spoke to one time got frustrated and just said what the hell and unblocked everything that time so I didn't have to run their crap.  The thing is I tried calling latter in the year to say the same thing and the guy I spoke to that time said it was impossible to do that and gave me straight up lie.  After I told him that yes he can do it because it was done before he got defensive and tried to get information on his (i'm assuming) co-worker who went against their policy.</p><p>Anyways<br>Good luck!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a current CMU student who just moved out of the dorms .
I can not tell you the amount frustration I had with the IT department and registering my computers .
( Get ready for some headaches ) The best thing I can tell you is install the sh * \ % y antivirus run the stupid test thing and do a system restore on your comp to undo the installation of mcafee .
( But this still sucks because even upon uninstalling crap is still in your registry etc .
Also they did support AVG as an alternative .
Unfortunatley they did not support Avira Antivir.Ohh and another thing get ready for a WEEKLY BANDWITH CAP of 5 gigs !
Good luck trying to keep your steam apps up to date .
The bad part is when you do go over this limit you have to restart the whole process of running their security crap.On the up side my p2p sharing was great .
You will find the internet is blazingly fast ( assuming you get through the hoops to use it ) and they did not block any p2p ports/programs/traffic that I am aware of.I had 2 comps running ( 1 Win XP and 1 Vista/Ubuntu ) .
They make you have SP3 for xp and all the updated definitions for your antivirus ( which by the way is stupid because you ca n't go and download them till you get online but you ca n't go online till they are updated ) .
See the problem here...what came first the chicken or the egg .
Not sure what vista updates were needed.As for my Ubuntu installation .
You are still under the 5 gig restriction but if I remember correctly you do n't have to run the CSA bulls * &amp;t.Here are a few tips for the MANY times I called the IT help desk.-You get 1 free reset a semester if you go over the limit.-Try telling them you have a problem running the CSA thing that its trying to detect Mcafee as your antivirus instead of AVG ( of course this can be BS and you can have neither ) Say something like I had one installed and I switched and its still trying to detect Mcafee .
The guy I spoke to one time got frustrated and just said what the hell and unblocked everything that time so I did n't have to run their crap .
The thing is I tried calling latter in the year to say the same thing and the guy I spoke to that time said it was impossible to do that and gave me straight up lie .
After I told him that yes he can do it because it was done before he got defensive and tried to get information on his ( i 'm assuming ) co-worker who went against their policy.AnywaysGood luck !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a current CMU student who just moved out of the dorms.
I cannot tell you the amount frustration I had with the IT department and registering my computers.
(Get ready for some headaches)  The best thing I can tell you is install the sh*\%y antivirus run the stupid test thing and do a system restore on your comp to undo the installation of mcafee.
(But this still sucks because even upon uninstalling crap is still in your registry etc.
Also they did support AVG as an alternative.
Unfortunatley they did not support Avira Antivir.Ohh and another thing get ready for a WEEKLY BANDWITH CAP of 5 gigs!
Good luck trying to keep your steam apps up to date.
The bad part is when you do go over this limit you have to restart the whole process of running their security crap.On the up side my p2p sharing was great.
You will find the internet is blazingly fast (assuming you get through the hoops to use it) and they did not block any p2p ports/programs/traffic that I am aware of.I had 2 comps running (1 Win XP and 1 Vista/Ubuntu).
They make you have SP3 for xp and all the updated definitions for your antivirus (which by the way is stupid because you can't go and download them till you get online but you can't go online till they are updated).
See the problem here...what came first the chicken or the egg.
Not sure what vista updates were needed.As for my Ubuntu installation.
You are still under the 5 gig restriction but if I remember correctly you don't have to run the CSA bulls*&amp;t.Here are a few tips for the MANY times I called the IT help desk.-You get 1 free reset a semester if you go over the limit.-Try telling them you have a problem running the CSA thing that its trying to detect Mcafee as your antivirus instead of AVG (of course this can be BS and you can have neither) Say something like I had one installed and I switched and its still trying to detect Mcafee.
The guy I spoke to one time got frustrated and just said what the hell and unblocked everything that time so I didn't have to run their crap.
The thing is I tried calling latter in the year to say the same thing and the guy I spoke to that time said it was impossible to do that and gave me straight up lie.
After I told him that yes he can do it because it was done before he got defensive and tried to get information on his (i'm assuming) co-worker who went against their policy.AnywaysGood luck!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238045</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1244297520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every honor code I've ever heard of has been used as a tool for a college to rid itself of students that it deems undesirable.  In my experience, enforcement of these codes varies <i>enormously</i>.  Recently, the University of Virginia came under fire for using its honor code to expel students for seemingly trivial offenses.</p><p>Honor codes are great in theory, although the ones I've seen put far too much power in the hands of far too few.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every honor code I 've ever heard of has been used as a tool for a college to rid itself of students that it deems undesirable .
In my experience , enforcement of these codes varies enormously .
Recently , the University of Virginia came under fire for using its honor code to expel students for seemingly trivial offenses.Honor codes are great in theory , although the ones I 've seen put far too much power in the hands of far too few .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every honor code I've ever heard of has been used as a tool for a college to rid itself of students that it deems undesirable.
In my experience, enforcement of these codes varies enormously.
Recently, the University of Virginia came under fire for using its honor code to expel students for seemingly trivial offenses.Honor codes are great in theory, although the ones I've seen put far too much power in the hands of far too few.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235371</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236193</id>
	<title>Re:It's no worse than being at work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244281020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself...</p></div></blockquote><p>No offense, but college kids are in the <em>Real World</em>, at least as far as paying big bucks goes. I was in a large state university not too long ago, and if I remember correctly, the fees I paid for computing were far more than a decent monthly 3G <strong>and</strong> broadband at home access. University students just aren't familiar enough with the real world to know when they're getting royally screwed, though they learn pretty quick.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the real world , if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself...No offense , but college kids are in the Real World , at least as far as paying big bucks goes .
I was in a large state university not too long ago , and if I remember correctly , the fees I paid for computing were far more than a decent monthly 3G and broadband at home access .
University students just are n't familiar enough with the real world to know when they 're getting royally screwed , though they learn pretty quick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the real world, if you want freedom to do as you please you have to pay for it yourself...No offense, but college kids are in the Real World, at least as far as paying big bucks goes.
I was in a large state university not too long ago, and if I remember correctly, the fees I paid for computing were far more than a decent monthly 3G and broadband at home access.
University students just aren't familiar enough with the real world to know when they're getting royally screwed, though they learn pretty quick.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239239</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244311980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>dude, limewire is a cesspit of malware. most schools don't give a flying fuck about piracy unless a) the r/mpaa is currently threatening lawsuits on them or b) the network(speed) goes to shit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>dude , limewire is a cesspit of malware .
most schools do n't give a flying fuck about piracy unless a ) the r/mpaa is currently threatening lawsuits on them or b ) the network ( speed ) goes to shit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>dude, limewire is a cesspit of malware.
most schools don't give a flying fuck about piracy unless a) the r/mpaa is currently threatening lawsuits on them or b) the network(speed) goes to shit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237945</id>
	<title>Use VPN</title>
	<author>wiedzmin</author>
	<datestamp>1244296560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are numerous free programs out there that allow you to encrypt your online activities by using VPN. I've been using <a href="http://hotspotshield.com/" title="hotspotshield.com" rel="nofollow">Hotspot Shield</a> [hotspotshield.com] and <a href="http://www.torproject.org/" title="torproject.org" rel="nofollow">Tor</a> [torproject.org]. Give those a try, hopefully they are not blocked by your college's IT infrastructure. Also, use <a href="http://www.opendns.com/" title="opendns.com" rel="nofollow">OpenDNS</a> [opendns.com] - this will bypass simple DNS filtering and protect you against worms such as Conficker.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are numerous free programs out there that allow you to encrypt your online activities by using VPN .
I 've been using Hotspot Shield [ hotspotshield.com ] and Tor [ torproject.org ] .
Give those a try , hopefully they are not blocked by your college 's IT infrastructure .
Also , use OpenDNS [ opendns.com ] - this will bypass simple DNS filtering and protect you against worms such as Conficker .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are numerous free programs out there that allow you to encrypt your online activities by using VPN.
I've been using Hotspot Shield [hotspotshield.com] and Tor [torproject.org].
Give those a try, hopefully they are not blocked by your college's IT infrastructure.
Also, use OpenDNS [opendns.com] - this will bypass simple DNS filtering and protect you against worms such as Conficker.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235283</id>
	<title>Use OpenDNS</title>
	<author>daimou</author>
	<datestamp>1244318940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My school's DNS server was the point of contact with CSA. By using OpenDNS I avoided having to install CSA or even be checked for it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My school 's DNS server was the point of contact with CSA .
By using OpenDNS I avoided having to install CSA or even be checked for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My school's DNS server was the point of contact with CSA.
By using OpenDNS I avoided having to install CSA or even be checked for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237555</id>
	<title>Re:yeah, but</title>
	<author>DMalic</author>
	<datestamp>1244293140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Technically, yes, but we're quickly moving toward a society where consent to monitoring and search is required for simply existing.  Applicable law or constitutional protection is being slowly circumvented step by step like you'd cut a label off with a E-xacto knife.  I have absolutely no idea what to do, and I'm not about to withdraw and become a hermit (Slashdot jokes aside) but it does concern me.

(Does that make me a concern troll?)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Technically , yes , but we 're quickly moving toward a society where consent to monitoring and search is required for simply existing .
Applicable law or constitutional protection is being slowly circumvented step by step like you 'd cut a label off with a E-xacto knife .
I have absolutely no idea what to do , and I 'm not about to withdraw and become a hermit ( Slashdot jokes aside ) but it does concern me .
( Does that make me a concern troll ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Technically, yes, but we're quickly moving toward a society where consent to monitoring and search is required for simply existing.
Applicable law or constitutional protection is being slowly circumvented step by step like you'd cut a label off with a E-xacto knife.
I have absolutely no idea what to do, and I'm not about to withdraw and become a hermit (Slashdot jokes aside) but it does concern me.
(Does that make me a concern troll?
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235535</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235153</id>
	<title>Mikeiver</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244318220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well you could go with one of the cell phone based WAN providers for the internet and bypass all of them.  It is $60.00 a month from AT&amp;T or Verizon.  Verizon puts a 5GB cap on your total transfer though it is fast in my area.  I even made an antenna and get stupid strong signal.  It gives me about 2.5Mb/sec down and about 160Kb/sec up.  The advantage is that you get internet just about anywhere and you don't have to go through all the schools BS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well you could go with one of the cell phone based WAN providers for the internet and bypass all of them .
It is $ 60.00 a month from AT&amp;T or Verizon .
Verizon puts a 5GB cap on your total transfer though it is fast in my area .
I even made an antenna and get stupid strong signal .
It gives me about 2.5Mb/sec down and about 160Kb/sec up .
The advantage is that you get internet just about anywhere and you do n't have to go through all the schools BS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well you could go with one of the cell phone based WAN providers for the internet and bypass all of them.
It is $60.00 a month from AT&amp;T or Verizon.
Verizon puts a 5GB cap on your total transfer though it is fast in my area.
I even made an antenna and get stupid strong signal.
It gives me about 2.5Mb/sec down and about 160Kb/sec up.
The advantage is that you get internet just about anywhere and you don't have to go through all the schools BS.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237523</id>
	<title>This is purely an issue of poor IT policy....</title>
	<author>1iar\_parad0x</author>
	<datestamp>1244292900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I guess their  is creating their IT policy.  Maybe the CIO gets kickbacks.
<p>
First, if I were a student at CMU, I would complain about having a corporate trojan installed on my machine.  How long before somebody reverse engineers the protocol for this 'client security agent' and turns this software into a backdoor on unsuspecting student's machines.
</p><p>
Second, if I were a professor, I'd ask why the IT department can't set up a faculty network separate from the student body.  Do some bandwidth shaping here.  Give the faculty network a separate, dedicated amount of bandwidth.  (I'm imagining they do this already, but I'm answering some the responses here.)
</p><p>
Third, if I were a high enough ranking member of CMU's IT department, I'd be asking why we want to touch all those student computers anyway.  I really don't want the department to be saddled with the help desk issues resulting from this bastard 'client security agent' malware anyway.  Quarantine the non-conforming students.  If these students are willing to sign waviers, put them on a separate network, firewalled from the conforming students.  It's up to them to firewall their machine.  Block the obvious P2P traffic (or do some intelligent bandwidth shaping).  Students who wish to conform get put on the other network.  Plus, by a good anti-virus solution for everybody (like Avira or NOD32).  Once again, anyone who doesn't conform to this policy gets put on the quarantined network, plus they sign the waiver stating they understand the risks.
</p><p>
Fourth, hire me as CMU's CIO....  (Forget it, Michigan is in the toilet as a state anyway...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess their is creating their IT policy .
Maybe the CIO gets kickbacks .
First , if I were a student at CMU , I would complain about having a corporate trojan installed on my machine .
How long before somebody reverse engineers the protocol for this 'client security agent ' and turns this software into a backdoor on unsuspecting student 's machines .
Second , if I were a professor , I 'd ask why the IT department ca n't set up a faculty network separate from the student body .
Do some bandwidth shaping here .
Give the faculty network a separate , dedicated amount of bandwidth .
( I 'm imagining they do this already , but I 'm answering some the responses here .
) Third , if I were a high enough ranking member of CMU 's IT department , I 'd be asking why we want to touch all those student computers anyway .
I really do n't want the department to be saddled with the help desk issues resulting from this bastard 'client security agent ' malware anyway .
Quarantine the non-conforming students .
If these students are willing to sign waviers , put them on a separate network , firewalled from the conforming students .
It 's up to them to firewall their machine .
Block the obvious P2P traffic ( or do some intelligent bandwidth shaping ) .
Students who wish to conform get put on the other network .
Plus , by a good anti-virus solution for everybody ( like Avira or NOD32 ) .
Once again , anyone who does n't conform to this policy gets put on the quarantined network , plus they sign the waiver stating they understand the risks .
Fourth , hire me as CMU 's CIO.... ( Forget it , Michigan is in the toilet as a state anyway... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess their  is creating their IT policy.
Maybe the CIO gets kickbacks.
First, if I were a student at CMU, I would complain about having a corporate trojan installed on my machine.
How long before somebody reverse engineers the protocol for this 'client security agent' and turns this software into a backdoor on unsuspecting student's machines.
Second, if I were a professor, I'd ask why the IT department can't set up a faculty network separate from the student body.
Do some bandwidth shaping here.
Give the faculty network a separate, dedicated amount of bandwidth.
(I'm imagining they do this already, but I'm answering some the responses here.
)

Third, if I were a high enough ranking member of CMU's IT department, I'd be asking why we want to touch all those student computers anyway.
I really don't want the department to be saddled with the help desk issues resulting from this bastard 'client security agent' malware anyway.
Quarantine the non-conforming students.
If these students are willing to sign waviers, put them on a separate network, firewalled from the conforming students.
It's up to them to firewall their machine.
Block the obvious P2P traffic (or do some intelligent bandwidth shaping).
Students who wish to conform get put on the other network.
Plus, by a good anti-virus solution for everybody (like Avira or NOD32).
Once again, anyone who doesn't conform to this policy gets put on the quarantined network, plus they sign the waiver stating they understand the risks.
Fourth, hire me as CMU's CIO....  (Forget it, Michigan is in the toilet as a state anyway...)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235251</id>
	<title>Solution!</title>
	<author>NSN A392-99-964-5927</author>
	<datestamp>1244318760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do not use the campus network connections for anything other than study related tasks and save your work to a flash drive. If I were you, I would ask a local company, if you could do some work experience for them and use their internet connection.  I do not know if this is frowned upon  in the USA, but certainly here, I run an almost bulletproof network and any student that asked me to have access based on what you have said would be fine with me!

You probably can get wireless, stick an omni on your roof and you will certainly increase your range by 5 miles! Also modifying wireless cards is not that hard. Netgear and Atheros cards are pretty forgiving! There will be some students that can help you out with that and maybe feel the same why that you do!

I did read terms and conditions, but it was shocking enough just reading "The policies below are intended to supplement other existing university and external policies, regulations and laws" None of which they cleary define what the "other" means! I am confident enough you will find a way around this issue.

Remember the best way to defeat an enemy is to be for more creative!  I sincerely wish you luck!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do not use the campus network connections for anything other than study related tasks and save your work to a flash drive .
If I were you , I would ask a local company , if you could do some work experience for them and use their internet connection .
I do not know if this is frowned upon in the USA , but certainly here , I run an almost bulletproof network and any student that asked me to have access based on what you have said would be fine with me !
You probably can get wireless , stick an omni on your roof and you will certainly increase your range by 5 miles !
Also modifying wireless cards is not that hard .
Netgear and Atheros cards are pretty forgiving !
There will be some students that can help you out with that and maybe feel the same why that you do !
I did read terms and conditions , but it was shocking enough just reading " The policies below are intended to supplement other existing university and external policies , regulations and laws " None of which they cleary define what the " other " means !
I am confident enough you will find a way around this issue .
Remember the best way to defeat an enemy is to be for more creative !
I sincerely wish you luck !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do not use the campus network connections for anything other than study related tasks and save your work to a flash drive.
If I were you, I would ask a local company, if you could do some work experience for them and use their internet connection.
I do not know if this is frowned upon  in the USA, but certainly here, I run an almost bulletproof network and any student that asked me to have access based on what you have said would be fine with me!
You probably can get wireless, stick an omni on your roof and you will certainly increase your range by 5 miles!
Also modifying wireless cards is not that hard.
Netgear and Atheros cards are pretty forgiving!
There will be some students that can help you out with that and maybe feel the same why that you do!
I did read terms and conditions, but it was shocking enough just reading "The policies below are intended to supplement other existing university and external policies, regulations and laws" None of which they cleary define what the "other" means!
I am confident enough you will find a way around this issue.
Remember the best way to defeat an enemy is to be for more creative!
I sincerely wish you luck!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237889</id>
	<title>Re:Waaah.</title>
	<author>mdmkolbe</author>
	<datestamp>1244296140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices, the university might get into trouble</p></div><p>The DMCA doesn't work like that.  The DMCA gives the university immunity.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security (and if you're asking us, you aren't), you will not outsmart your school's IT department.</p></div><p>Huh, I used to(*) outsmart the IT department on a regular basis.  I guess I should thank you for the complement.</p><p>(*) Now I don't have to, but those were fun times.  Remind me to tell you about them once the statute of limitations expires<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices , the university might get into troubleThe DMCA does n't work like that .
The DMCA gives the university immunity.Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security ( and if you 're asking us , you are n't ) , you will not outsmart your school 's IT department.Huh , I used to ( * ) outsmart the IT department on a regular basis .
I guess I should thank you for the complement .
( * ) Now I do n't have to , but those were fun times .
Remind me to tell you about them once the statute of limitations expires ; - ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices, the university might get into troubleThe DMCA doesn't work like that.
The DMCA gives the university immunity.Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security (and if you're asking us, you aren't), you will not outsmart your school's IT department.Huh, I used to(*) outsmart the IT department on a regular basis.
I guess I should thank you for the complement.
(*) Now I don't have to, but those were fun times.
Remind me to tell you about them once the statute of limitations expires ;-).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393</id>
	<title>Waaah.</title>
	<author>Idiot with a gun</author>
	<datestamp>1244319480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Look, I'm a fan of net freedom just like you. But let's be honest here. It is the university's network, even if you are semi-footing the bill, and they get to decide network policy rules. It's mostly for prevention, if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices, the university might get into trouble. So of course they block limewire, not like it has a legitimate use anyways. If there's a massive outbreak of viruses on their network, their tech supports (people like me) have to clean up, so of course we force students to have up to date antivirus software, and up to date operating systems, its the method of prevention available.<br> <br> Simply put, their network, their rules. When you're paying, you can decide the rules you follow, and deal with the consequences if you break some other major rules (laws). If you don't like their rules, complain to them, or go elsewhere. Not like you're forced to stay. Attempting to side-step the rules (especially publicly on slashdot, you know someone in the IT department at your university reads this site) is a very bad plan. Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security (and if you're asking us, you aren't), you will not outsmart your school's IT department. This isn't high school anymore, where renaming forbidden<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.exe's, or simple<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.bat scripts would bypass the network policies.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , I 'm a fan of net freedom just like you .
But let 's be honest here .
It is the university 's network , even if you are semi-footing the bill , and they get to decide network policy rules .
It 's mostly for prevention , if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices , the university might get into trouble .
So of course they block limewire , not like it has a legitimate use anyways .
If there 's a massive outbreak of viruses on their network , their tech supports ( people like me ) have to clean up , so of course we force students to have up to date antivirus software , and up to date operating systems , its the method of prevention available .
Simply put , their network , their rules .
When you 're paying , you can decide the rules you follow , and deal with the consequences if you break some other major rules ( laws ) .
If you do n't like their rules , complain to them , or go elsewhere .
Not like you 're forced to stay .
Attempting to side-step the rules ( especially publicly on slashdot , you know someone in the IT department at your university reads this site ) is a very bad plan .
Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security ( and if you 're asking us , you are n't ) , you will not outsmart your school 's IT department .
This is n't high school anymore , where renaming forbidden .exe 's , or simple .bat scripts would bypass the network policies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, I'm a fan of net freedom just like you.
But let's be honest here.
It is the university's network, even if you are semi-footing the bill, and they get to decide network policy rules.
It's mostly for prevention, if their students are constantly getting DMCA notices, the university might get into trouble.
So of course they block limewire, not like it has a legitimate use anyways.
If there's a massive outbreak of viruses on their network, their tech supports (people like me) have to clean up, so of course we force students to have up to date antivirus software, and up to date operating systems, its the method of prevention available.
Simply put, their network, their rules.
When you're paying, you can decide the rules you follow, and deal with the consequences if you break some other major rules (laws).
If you don't like their rules, complain to them, or go elsewhere.
Not like you're forced to stay.
Attempting to side-step the rules (especially publicly on slashdot, you know someone in the IT department at your university reads this site) is a very bad plan.
Unless if you happen to be a random genius at network security (and if you're asking us, you aren't), you will not outsmart your school's IT department.
This isn't high school anymore, where renaming forbidden .exe's, or simple .bat scripts would bypass the network policies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234919</id>
	<title>Virtual Box?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you thought of running their spyware on a virtualbox session of whatever OS they support; and accessing only non-sensitive sites through that session.  Can't you wait till you get home for the other stuff?  If not maybe an encrypted pipe would do the trick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you thought of running their spyware on a virtualbox session of whatever OS they support ; and accessing only non-sensitive sites through that session .
Ca n't you wait till you get home for the other stuff ?
If not maybe an encrypted pipe would do the trick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you thought of running their spyware on a virtualbox session of whatever OS they support; and accessing only non-sensitive sites through that session.
Can't you wait till you get home for the other stuff?
If not maybe an encrypted pipe would do the trick.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235149</id>
	<title>Think about a different college.  GVSU or others.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244318220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Grand Valley State does not implement such restrictions on its students.  All that is required there is an AntiVirus client, of your choosing and a request that you install MS patches on a regular basis.  They do not track web usage and have a reasonably secure network.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Grand Valley State does not implement such restrictions on its students .
All that is required there is an AntiVirus client , of your choosing and a request that you install MS patches on a regular basis .
They do not track web usage and have a reasonably secure network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Grand Valley State does not implement such restrictions on its students.
All that is required there is an AntiVirus client, of your choosing and a request that you install MS patches on a regular basis.
They do not track web usage and have a reasonably secure network.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235019</id>
	<title>Re:Linux</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1244317500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or they will deny you access.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or they will deny you access .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or they will deny you access.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234883</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235535</id>
	<title>yeah, but</title>
	<author>Reality Master 201</author>
	<datestamp>1244320260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're consenting to such monitoring/searches in exchange for use of the university's computing resources.  You don't have to consent, but you also don't get to use the network.</p><p>Really, that's a terrible analogy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're consenting to such monitoring/searches in exchange for use of the university 's computing resources .
You do n't have to consent , but you also do n't get to use the network.Really , that 's a terrible analogy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're consenting to such monitoring/searches in exchange for use of the university's computing resources.
You don't have to consent, but you also don't get to use the network.Really, that's a terrible analogy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236487</id>
	<title>From a network admin at a major state U</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244283120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We do this as well and probably run the same NAC. We tell students up front that we don't require this from Mac or Linux users, so savvy students run Linux and then do Windows-only work in a VM if they simply can't allow the network admins to scan for things. By the way, we only scan for 1 thing: virus definitions. If your virus def's aren't up to date, we send you to a remediation VLAN where you can update them and get back in the game. Trust me when I say that the network admins most likely have absolutely no interest in anything you might be storing on your hard drive beyond virus def's.</p><p>Students are also free to purchase cable internet from the local cable ISP if that's what they want, and a few do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We do this as well and probably run the same NAC .
We tell students up front that we do n't require this from Mac or Linux users , so savvy students run Linux and then do Windows-only work in a VM if they simply ca n't allow the network admins to scan for things .
By the way , we only scan for 1 thing : virus definitions .
If your virus def 's are n't up to date , we send you to a remediation VLAN where you can update them and get back in the game .
Trust me when I say that the network admins most likely have absolutely no interest in anything you might be storing on your hard drive beyond virus def 's.Students are also free to purchase cable internet from the local cable ISP if that 's what they want , and a few do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We do this as well and probably run the same NAC.
We tell students up front that we don't require this from Mac or Linux users, so savvy students run Linux and then do Windows-only work in a VM if they simply can't allow the network admins to scan for things.
By the way, we only scan for 1 thing: virus definitions.
If your virus def's aren't up to date, we send you to a remediation VLAN where you can update them and get back in the game.
Trust me when I say that the network admins most likely have absolutely no interest in anything you might be storing on your hard drive beyond virus def's.Students are also free to purchase cable internet from the local cable ISP if that's what they want, and a few do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235803</id>
	<title>Re:My Solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We use Cisco Clean Access at the University where I work in the IT department.  Don't think that we don't know you can do that.  We're not as dumb as the CS majors think.  We're well aware of the fact that you can change your user agent, and if we find out you're doing it we add your MAC address to the blocked list.  Then you get to come talk to the campus IT security team and beg for your Internet access back.<p>Obviously I know that the MAC can be spoofed, and you are free to do so.  Just keep in mind that if you get caught trying to circumvent our network security measures we can and will take away your Internet access permanently.</p><p>Have a nice day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We use Cisco Clean Access at the University where I work in the IT department .
Do n't think that we do n't know you can do that .
We 're not as dumb as the CS majors think .
We 're well aware of the fact that you can change your user agent , and if we find out you 're doing it we add your MAC address to the blocked list .
Then you get to come talk to the campus IT security team and beg for your Internet access back.Obviously I know that the MAC can be spoofed , and you are free to do so .
Just keep in mind that if you get caught trying to circumvent our network security measures we can and will take away your Internet access permanently.Have a nice day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We use Cisco Clean Access at the University where I work in the IT department.
Don't think that we don't know you can do that.
We're not as dumb as the CS majors think.
We're well aware of the fact that you can change your user agent, and if we find out you're doing it we add your MAC address to the blocked list.
Then you get to come talk to the campus IT security team and beg for your Internet access back.Obviously I know that the MAC can be spoofed, and you are free to do so.
Just keep in mind that if you get caught trying to circumvent our network security measures we can and will take away your Internet access permanently.Have a nice day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234973</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236043</id>
	<title>Finally, the right answer</title>
	<author>VampireByte</author>
	<datestamp>1244280120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't believe I had to read so far down to finally get the correct perspective. It's college, go there to buckle down and study and use your computer for college related activities. That means getting on board with the program, participating and following the rules to gain an education. Obtain an education, then decide what you are going to challenge in the world.</p><p>You don't want anyone messing with your 'pyooter, then take one that's just for school and hook it up to the network.</p><p>Honestly, the results of your high school work landed you at Central Michigan? Let's face it, you aren't some L337 d00d heading to MIT. Consider this a second chance to prove you aren't third rate and hit the books. Otherwise, you'll just be another loser with a college degree selling shoes at the mall.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't believe I had to read so far down to finally get the correct perspective .
It 's college , go there to buckle down and study and use your computer for college related activities .
That means getting on board with the program , participating and following the rules to gain an education .
Obtain an education , then decide what you are going to challenge in the world.You do n't want anyone messing with your 'pyooter , then take one that 's just for school and hook it up to the network.Honestly , the results of your high school work landed you at Central Michigan ?
Let 's face it , you are n't some L337 d00d heading to MIT .
Consider this a second chance to prove you are n't third rate and hit the books .
Otherwise , you 'll just be another loser with a college degree selling shoes at the mall .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't believe I had to read so far down to finally get the correct perspective.
It's college, go there to buckle down and study and use your computer for college related activities.
That means getting on board with the program, participating and following the rules to gain an education.
Obtain an education, then decide what you are going to challenge in the world.You don't want anyone messing with your 'pyooter, then take one that's just for school and hook it up to the network.Honestly, the results of your high school work landed you at Central Michigan?
Let's face it, you aren't some L337 d00d heading to MIT.
Consider this a second chance to prove you aren't third rate and hit the books.
Otherwise, you'll just be another loser with a college degree selling shoes at the mall.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235313</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28248259</id>
	<title>Re:Linux</title>
	<author>Psilax</author>
	<datestamp>1244452620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>mac address protection is useless on a descent computer. Most networkcards are able to spoof another mac address. So you simply change mac address each time you get blocked and eventually the blocking will go down because they started blocking a computer from some "important high up the ladder" person.</htmltext>
<tokenext>mac address protection is useless on a descent computer .
Most networkcards are able to spoof another mac address .
So you simply change mac address each time you get blocked and eventually the blocking will go down because they started blocking a computer from some " important high up the ladder " person .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>mac address protection is useless on a descent computer.
Most networkcards are able to spoof another mac address.
So you simply change mac address each time you get blocked and eventually the blocking will go down because they started blocking a computer from some "important high up the ladder" person.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235453</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240851</id>
	<title>Re:Two computers?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244384400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A couple of things<br>1) Most 'agents' only run on Windows.  You of course being an enlightened Slashdot Reader will be running Linux.  They might not even have a client - and if they do, you could control access.<br>2) If all else fails, run a cheap computer with Windows as a firewall</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A couple of things1 ) Most 'agents ' only run on Windows .
You of course being an enlightened Slashdot Reader will be running Linux .
They might not even have a client - and if they do , you could control access.2 ) If all else fails , run a cheap computer with Windows as a firewall</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A couple of things1) Most 'agents' only run on Windows.
You of course being an enlightened Slashdot Reader will be running Linux.
They might not even have a client - and if they do, you could control access.2) If all else fails, run a cheap computer with Windows as a firewall</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236155</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244280840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's idiot dickheads that can't think that are the problem.  Especially idiot dickheads that have a small amount of 'power', which they abuse, to demand that everyone bow down to them, the network admins, computer illiterate university management that back them, etc.</p><p>For example, instead of demanding that everyone install some university approved spyware...</p><p>Encourage people to install and use linux.  Problems (multiple) solved. No more malware, etc.<br>Significant savings for staff, students, the university, network admins, etc.</p><p>People using MS junk should be forced to pester MS helplines, etc. to solve their problems, not network admins and other students who are intelligent enough to use linux, etc.<br>As a network admin, this is precisely what I do.  "Call the MS helpline for your MS computer problems.  Once they fix it (at your expense), then you can get back on the network."<br>Or, "Yes, I can fix your MS computer problem.  I charge the same rates as MS, i.e. $300 an hour, plus software charges, etc.  Yes, by all means, go elsewhere if you can find cheaper rates.  Goodbye."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's idiot dickheads that ca n't think that are the problem .
Especially idiot dickheads that have a small amount of 'power ' , which they abuse , to demand that everyone bow down to them , the network admins , computer illiterate university management that back them , etc.For example , instead of demanding that everyone install some university approved spyware...Encourage people to install and use linux .
Problems ( multiple ) solved .
No more malware , etc.Significant savings for staff , students , the university , network admins , etc.People using MS junk should be forced to pester MS helplines , etc .
to solve their problems , not network admins and other students who are intelligent enough to use linux , etc.As a network admin , this is precisely what I do .
" Call the MS helpline for your MS computer problems .
Once they fix it ( at your expense ) , then you can get back on the network .
" Or , " Yes , I can fix your MS computer problem .
I charge the same rates as MS , i.e .
$ 300 an hour , plus software charges , etc .
Yes , by all means , go elsewhere if you can find cheaper rates .
Goodbye. "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's idiot dickheads that can't think that are the problem.
Especially idiot dickheads that have a small amount of 'power', which they abuse, to demand that everyone bow down to them, the network admins, computer illiterate university management that back them, etc.For example, instead of demanding that everyone install some university approved spyware...Encourage people to install and use linux.
Problems (multiple) solved.
No more malware, etc.Significant savings for staff, students, the university, network admins, etc.People using MS junk should be forced to pester MS helplines, etc.
to solve their problems, not network admins and other students who are intelligent enough to use linux, etc.As a network admin, this is precisely what I do.
"Call the MS helpline for your MS computer problems.
Once they fix it (at your expense), then you can get back on the network.
"Or, "Yes, I can fix your MS computer problem.
I charge the same rates as MS, i.e.
$300 an hour, plus software charges, etc.
Yes, by all means, go elsewhere if you can find cheaper rates.
Goodbye."</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235077</id>
	<title>Re:Linux</title>
	<author>Majikk</author>
	<datestamp>1244317740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If only. Odds are they'll simply tell him that linux is not supported under their network.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If only .
Odds are they 'll simply tell him that linux is not supported under their network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If only.
Odds are they'll simply tell him that linux is not supported under their network.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234883</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241407</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244391000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well is it a contract?  A contract involves a meeting of the minds.  Or is this an EULA or a consumer use policy where company X dictates the terms and you're expected to bend over.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well is it a contract ?
A contract involves a meeting of the minds .
Or is this an EULA or a consumer use policy where company X dictates the terms and you 're expected to bend over .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well is it a contract?
A contract involves a meeting of the minds.
Or is this an EULA or a consumer use policy where company X dictates the terms and you're expected to bend over.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241797</id>
	<title>Re:My Solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244394900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone who works the campus IT desk that does not use an agent, but does use Mcafee for enterprise. It is configurable whether it deletes viruses or false positives. Right-click on the M icon in the system tray. Mcafee is used for many corporations. They've had one major error in the past where they flagged excel as a  false positive. Do you really think they would leave this as a non-configurable setting?</p><p>Have you thought about filing a support ticket with your helpdesk?</p><p>--Sam</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who works the campus IT desk that does not use an agent , but does use Mcafee for enterprise .
It is configurable whether it deletes viruses or false positives .
Right-click on the M icon in the system tray .
Mcafee is used for many corporations .
They 've had one major error in the past where they flagged excel as a false positive .
Do you really think they would leave this as a non-configurable setting ? Have you thought about filing a support ticket with your helpdesk ? --Sam</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who works the campus IT desk that does not use an agent, but does use Mcafee for enterprise.
It is configurable whether it deletes viruses or false positives.
Right-click on the M icon in the system tray.
Mcafee is used for many corporations.
They've had one major error in the past where they flagged excel as a  false positive.
Do you really think they would leave this as a non-configurable setting?Have you thought about filing a support ticket with your helpdesk?--Sam</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234973</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236581</id>
	<title>Inadequate disclosure</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1244283900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
The real problem with this is that the University is asking the student to download and run software without properly identifying what it does.  That's called "badware" by <a href="http://www.stopbadware.org/" title="stopbadware.org">StopBadware</a> [stopbadware.org], run by the Harvard Law School, Consumers Union, etc. Phrases like "exceeds authorized access" apply.  And remember, this is a state school; they face the legal constraints on state actors. For example, the <a href="http://www.it.cmich.edu/it/policies\_computing.asp" title="cmich.edu">rule that "Most political advocacy is unacceptable"</a> [cmich.edu] is a blatant First Amendment violation as applied to students. Report that to EULA Watch and the ACLU. The ACLU is already dealing with <a href="http://www.aclu.org/privacy/gen/33242prs20071127.html" title="aclu.org">some other suppression of free speech by the CMU administration</a> [aclu.org], so this probably won't surprise them.
</p><p>
It's not even clear whose <a href="https://cm1rr.cmich.edu/remediation/CSAstart.html" title="cmich.edu">Client Security Agent</a> [cmich.edu] they're talking about.  There's one from Cisco, one from Bradford, and one from Microsoft.  The description mentions that it turns on Microsoft's automated updating.  That means all the latest Microsoft security holes (like the one that makes Firefox execute Microsoft<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET content) are opened up.
</p><p>
Someone compared this to working for a company.  It's not.  As a student, you're the customer, not an employee.  Also, in a corporate setting, if Central IT messes up your desktop machine, Central IT has to fix your desktop machine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real problem with this is that the University is asking the student to download and run software without properly identifying what it does .
That 's called " badware " by StopBadware [ stopbadware.org ] , run by the Harvard Law School , Consumers Union , etc .
Phrases like " exceeds authorized access " apply .
And remember , this is a state school ; they face the legal constraints on state actors .
For example , the rule that " Most political advocacy is unacceptable " [ cmich.edu ] is a blatant First Amendment violation as applied to students .
Report that to EULA Watch and the ACLU .
The ACLU is already dealing with some other suppression of free speech by the CMU administration [ aclu.org ] , so this probably wo n't surprise them .
It 's not even clear whose Client Security Agent [ cmich.edu ] they 're talking about .
There 's one from Cisco , one from Bradford , and one from Microsoft .
The description mentions that it turns on Microsoft 's automated updating .
That means all the latest Microsoft security holes ( like the one that makes Firefox execute Microsoft .NET content ) are opened up .
Someone compared this to working for a company .
It 's not .
As a student , you 're the customer , not an employee .
Also , in a corporate setting , if Central IT messes up your desktop machine , Central IT has to fix your desktop machine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
The real problem with this is that the University is asking the student to download and run software without properly identifying what it does.
That's called "badware" by StopBadware [stopbadware.org], run by the Harvard Law School, Consumers Union, etc.
Phrases like "exceeds authorized access" apply.
And remember, this is a state school; they face the legal constraints on state actors.
For example, the rule that "Most political advocacy is unacceptable" [cmich.edu] is a blatant First Amendment violation as applied to students.
Report that to EULA Watch and the ACLU.
The ACLU is already dealing with some other suppression of free speech by the CMU administration [aclu.org], so this probably won't surprise them.
It's not even clear whose Client Security Agent [cmich.edu] they're talking about.
There's one from Cisco, one from Bradford, and one from Microsoft.
The description mentions that it turns on Microsoft's automated updating.
That means all the latest Microsoft security holes (like the one that makes Firefox execute Microsoft .NET content) are opened up.
Someone compared this to working for a company.
It's not.
As a student, you're the customer, not an employee.
Also, in a corporate setting, if Central IT messes up your desktop machine, Central IT has to fix your desktop machine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236113</id>
	<title>A responsible policy-not unreasonable!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244280540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work for a university in the UK in IT, and while we don't have this sort of policy in place, we have looked at it and will likely implement something akin in the future.</p><p>Much of what is said here is ill informed and misguided advice based on speculation and paranoia. The simple truth is that unsecured network access is as much a risk to you as you fear the uni it department could be to you. Imagine all the other students who don't adequately secure their machines allowing their machines to brute force attack your machine 24/7 regardless of what operating system you choose? Imagine those other students compromised machines working hard together to hack YOUR student records and personal/financial information the Uni needs to hold about you.</p><p>Would you want that?  No of course not, and every other student has a reasonble expectation that your machine won't be causing mischief too.</p><p>How does a responsible IT department allow any random machine to use the network resources without some form of validation?  They can't, and so it is entirely reasonable to expect some degree of complience valdation mechanism.</p><p>The system we looked at includes clients for Linux, Macs, PCs and even other platforms - it doesn't 'scan your hard disk' or record any personal info, it simply validates complience with policies to have systems fully patched and running suitable security software (antivirus- but based on rules which don't prescribe a particular product). We licence an industry leading AV product for all staff and students to use if they don't wish to pay for one themselves (Kaspersky currently)</p><p>Beyond that, if you choose not to comply with good practice and allow validation of this, it is reasonable not to allow to risk the integrety of the system for everyone else-you are welcome to use a 3rd party (3G/satelite etc) as you see fit bit keep your potentially compromised kit away from the Uni network please.</p><p>Besides-as an institution, we are bound by the the SuperJANET rules to minimise the exposure of the entire country wide academic network to risk.</p><p>If you comply with these reasonable precautions, you can enjoy the fantastic network bandwidth available etc. Your call.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work for a university in the UK in IT , and while we do n't have this sort of policy in place , we have looked at it and will likely implement something akin in the future.Much of what is said here is ill informed and misguided advice based on speculation and paranoia .
The simple truth is that unsecured network access is as much a risk to you as you fear the uni it department could be to you .
Imagine all the other students who do n't adequately secure their machines allowing their machines to brute force attack your machine 24/7 regardless of what operating system you choose ?
Imagine those other students compromised machines working hard together to hack YOUR student records and personal/financial information the Uni needs to hold about you.Would you want that ?
No of course not , and every other student has a reasonble expectation that your machine wo n't be causing mischief too.How does a responsible IT department allow any random machine to use the network resources without some form of validation ?
They ca n't , and so it is entirely reasonable to expect some degree of complience valdation mechanism.The system we looked at includes clients for Linux , Macs , PCs and even other platforms - it does n't 'scan your hard disk ' or record any personal info , it simply validates complience with policies to have systems fully patched and running suitable security software ( antivirus- but based on rules which do n't prescribe a particular product ) .
We licence an industry leading AV product for all staff and students to use if they do n't wish to pay for one themselves ( Kaspersky currently ) Beyond that , if you choose not to comply with good practice and allow validation of this , it is reasonable not to allow to risk the integrety of the system for everyone else-you are welcome to use a 3rd party ( 3G/satelite etc ) as you see fit bit keep your potentially compromised kit away from the Uni network please.Besides-as an institution , we are bound by the the SuperJANET rules to minimise the exposure of the entire country wide academic network to risk.If you comply with these reasonable precautions , you can enjoy the fantastic network bandwidth available etc .
Your call .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work for a university in the UK in IT, and while we don't have this sort of policy in place, we have looked at it and will likely implement something akin in the future.Much of what is said here is ill informed and misguided advice based on speculation and paranoia.
The simple truth is that unsecured network access is as much a risk to you as you fear the uni it department could be to you.
Imagine all the other students who don't adequately secure their machines allowing their machines to brute force attack your machine 24/7 regardless of what operating system you choose?
Imagine those other students compromised machines working hard together to hack YOUR student records and personal/financial information the Uni needs to hold about you.Would you want that?
No of course not, and every other student has a reasonble expectation that your machine won't be causing mischief too.How does a responsible IT department allow any random machine to use the network resources without some form of validation?
They can't, and so it is entirely reasonable to expect some degree of complience valdation mechanism.The system we looked at includes clients for Linux, Macs, PCs and even other platforms - it doesn't 'scan your hard disk' or record any personal info, it simply validates complience with policies to have systems fully patched and running suitable security software (antivirus- but based on rules which don't prescribe a particular product).
We licence an industry leading AV product for all staff and students to use if they don't wish to pay for one themselves (Kaspersky currently)Beyond that, if you choose not to comply with good practice and allow validation of this, it is reasonable not to allow to risk the integrety of the system for everyone else-you are welcome to use a 3rd party (3G/satelite etc) as you see fit bit keep your potentially compromised kit away from the Uni network please.Besides-as an institution, we are bound by the the SuperJANET rules to minimise the exposure of the entire country wide academic network to risk.If you comply with these reasonable precautions, you can enjoy the fantastic network bandwidth available etc.
Your call.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28263547</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>Techmeology</author>
	<datestamp>1244549220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do you have an old computer you can take with you? Here's what you could do:
Install Windows on said old computer. Say, Windows XP. Have nothing except the following on this machine:
-Windows
-College Spyware
-Squid Proxy
-Two ethernet cards

You then connect this machine to the college's network, and your main computer to the other network port. You could then use an OpenVPN connection through the squid proxy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you have an old computer you can take with you ?
Here 's what you could do : Install Windows on said old computer .
Say , Windows XP .
Have nothing except the following on this machine : -Windows -College Spyware -Squid Proxy -Two ethernet cards You then connect this machine to the college 's network , and your main computer to the other network port .
You could then use an OpenVPN connection through the squid proxy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you have an old computer you can take with you?
Here's what you could do:
Install Windows on said old computer.
Say, Windows XP.
Have nothing except the following on this machine:
-Windows
-College Spyware
-Squid Proxy
-Two ethernet cards

You then connect this machine to the college's network, and your main computer to the other network port.
You could then use an OpenVPN connection through the squid proxy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235349</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237993</id>
	<title>Options</title>
	<author>DanMelks</author>
	<datestamp>1244296980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." -- John Gilmore<br> <br>

My personal recommendation is to build/buy a cheap server to act as an intermediate machine. This machine can be patched and posed as required to use the school networks, and you can run whatever you want on your personal machine. This intermediate doesn't have to be anything special or powerful and I'll bet your local CS student/ friendly neighborhood haxor can put something together for under $50. I would recommend a dual NIC setup.<br> <br>

You do still have all the traditional options of swapping out NICs every 2 weeks, reverse engineering the software (which would be helpful for the rest of us), etc</htmltext>
<tokenext>" The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it .
" -- John Gilmore My personal recommendation is to build/buy a cheap server to act as an intermediate machine .
This machine can be patched and posed as required to use the school networks , and you can run whatever you want on your personal machine .
This intermediate does n't have to be anything special or powerful and I 'll bet your local CS student/ friendly neighborhood haxor can put something together for under $ 50 .
I would recommend a dual NIC setup .
You do still have all the traditional options of swapping out NICs every 2 weeks , reverse engineering the software ( which would be helpful for the rest of us ) , etc</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.
" -- John Gilmore 

My personal recommendation is to build/buy a cheap server to act as an intermediate machine.
This machine can be patched and posed as required to use the school networks, and you can run whatever you want on your personal machine.
This intermediate doesn't have to be anything special or powerful and I'll bet your local CS student/ friendly neighborhood haxor can put something together for under $50.
I would recommend a dual NIC setup.
You do still have all the traditional options of swapping out NICs every 2 weeks, reverse engineering the software (which would be helpful for the rest of us), etc</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238249</id>
	<title>You're at their mercy, or you pay for something.</title>
	<author>Mwise1023</author>
	<datestamp>1244299560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Heya,

It's their network. You're subject to their rules by contract. So you have to play ball, and give up everything, or you can seek alternatives.

1. If you're techy and have more than one machine, including even a simple laptop or some super old piece of junk for $5 from a yardsale, you can setup your own server with encryption. Make it so that it cannot send out. This prevents any of their `eyes' from reporting. Or use it to simply setup a proxy server of your own that is also encrypted, and access it from anywhere with internet access.

2. Run Linux, as others have mentioned, on one machine with access. Do as you please or need with it. And have that machine share it's network access over the network with another machine of yours.

3. Have a cellphone plan already? You can do something like what Sprint or Altel offer, or whatever is local to you or that you already use; and that is, get internet over your phone. Not land line. Through the cell. Especially good if you get that $100 a month everything kind of plan, since you already pay close to that for normal cell service with text plans anyways. This way you can connect via your phone, or any device that can be plugged into via an adapater or an insert to the computer or whatever. If you already have the phone service, for a bit more, you can grab unbridled internet. It may not be super speedy, but it's better than bending over to the school's network requirements.

Very best,</htmltext>
<tokenext>Heya , It 's their network .
You 're subject to their rules by contract .
So you have to play ball , and give up everything , or you can seek alternatives .
1. If you 're techy and have more than one machine , including even a simple laptop or some super old piece of junk for $ 5 from a yardsale , you can setup your own server with encryption .
Make it so that it can not send out .
This prevents any of their ` eyes ' from reporting .
Or use it to simply setup a proxy server of your own that is also encrypted , and access it from anywhere with internet access .
2. Run Linux , as others have mentioned , on one machine with access .
Do as you please or need with it .
And have that machine share it 's network access over the network with another machine of yours .
3. Have a cellphone plan already ?
You can do something like what Sprint or Altel offer , or whatever is local to you or that you already use ; and that is , get internet over your phone .
Not land line .
Through the cell .
Especially good if you get that $ 100 a month everything kind of plan , since you already pay close to that for normal cell service with text plans anyways .
This way you can connect via your phone , or any device that can be plugged into via an adapater or an insert to the computer or whatever .
If you already have the phone service , for a bit more , you can grab unbridled internet .
It may not be super speedy , but it 's better than bending over to the school 's network requirements .
Very best,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heya,

It's their network.
You're subject to their rules by contract.
So you have to play ball, and give up everything, or you can seek alternatives.
1. If you're techy and have more than one machine, including even a simple laptop or some super old piece of junk for $5 from a yardsale, you can setup your own server with encryption.
Make it so that it cannot send out.
This prevents any of their `eyes' from reporting.
Or use it to simply setup a proxy server of your own that is also encrypted, and access it from anywhere with internet access.
2. Run Linux, as others have mentioned, on one machine with access.
Do as you please or need with it.
And have that machine share it's network access over the network with another machine of yours.
3. Have a cellphone plan already?
You can do something like what Sprint or Altel offer, or whatever is local to you or that you already use; and that is, get internet over your phone.
Not land line.
Through the cell.
Especially good if you get that $100 a month everything kind of plan, since you already pay close to that for normal cell service with text plans anyways.
This way you can connect via your phone, or any device that can be plugged into via an adapater or an insert to the computer or whatever.
If you already have the phone service, for a bit more, you can grab unbridled internet.
It may not be super speedy, but it's better than bending over to the school's network requirements.
Very best,</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28250939</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244475600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You sound like a douchebag.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You sound like a douchebag .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You sound like a douchebag.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235313</id>
	<title>join the computer club</title>
	<author>snsh</author>
	<datestamp>1244319120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're at college.  Get involved.  Stop referring to IT/IS as "them" and instead make it "us".  Participate with the student computer club, or the professional IT/IS department, and then you'll have a voice in campus policies, and after you pick up some credibility, you'll get the access you need to do your own stuff.</p><p>This is the point of being at college, after all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're at college .
Get involved .
Stop referring to IT/IS as " them " and instead make it " us " .
Participate with the student computer club , or the professional IT/IS department , and then you 'll have a voice in campus policies , and after you pick up some credibility , you 'll get the access you need to do your own stuff.This is the point of being at college , after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're at college.
Get involved.
Stop referring to IT/IS as "them" and instead make it "us".
Participate with the student computer club, or the professional IT/IS department, and then you'll have a voice in campus policies, and after you pick up some credibility, you'll get the access you need to do your own stuff.This is the point of being at college, after all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236311</id>
	<title>How about this</title>
	<author>RockoTDF</author>
	<datestamp>1244281860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I went to CNU (Not to be confused with any of the CMUs) which made use of CSA.  I would "register" the computer in windows (which I had for gaming only) and then do everything in linux.  If it still works like that, you can install linux and be ok.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I went to CNU ( Not to be confused with any of the CMUs ) which made use of CSA .
I would " register " the computer in windows ( which I had for gaming only ) and then do everything in linux .
If it still works like that , you can install linux and be ok .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went to CNU (Not to be confused with any of the CMUs) which made use of CSA.
I would "register" the computer in windows (which I had for gaming only) and then do everything in linux.
If it still works like that, you can install linux and be ok.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235233</id>
	<title>Solution?</title>
	<author>no-body</author>
	<datestamp>1244318640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>get somewhere outside (your non-college home?) a Linux box hooked up to the internet, then use putty to create a secure tunnel, proxy a browser through it and the only thing they see outside is ssh traffic.</p><p>If that is creating a fuss, just say you were trying something out to see if it works, educating yourself, learning.....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>get somewhere outside ( your non-college home ?
) a Linux box hooked up to the internet , then use putty to create a secure tunnel , proxy a browser through it and the only thing they see outside is ssh traffic.If that is creating a fuss , just say you were trying something out to see if it works , educating yourself , learning.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>get somewhere outside (your non-college home?
) a Linux box hooked up to the internet, then use putty to create a secure tunnel, proxy a browser through it and the only thing they see outside is ssh traffic.If that is creating a fuss, just say you were trying something out to see if it works, educating yourself, learning.....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237239</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244290080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>" . . .  who really matters at a university. Clue: The faculty."<br>Really?   A lot of faculty feel neglected and abused, too.</p><p>If you can afford it, how about two computers?  One knows how to connect to their net (a netbook should do) and is a clean install of whatever OS they expect plus their snoopware.  It needs enough disk room to temporarily store any downloads you might want to store, enough memory for browsing, and a switch to take it off their net if its connection is wireless.<br>The second, the one you have been using a while, isn't intended to be connected to their net, but can be ad hoc connected to the first one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" .
. .
who really matters at a university .
Clue : The faculty. " Really ?
A lot of faculty feel neglected and abused , too.If you can afford it , how about two computers ?
One knows how to connect to their net ( a netbook should do ) and is a clean install of whatever OS they expect plus their snoopware .
It needs enough disk room to temporarily store any downloads you might want to store , enough memory for browsing , and a switch to take it off their net if its connection is wireless.The second , the one you have been using a while , is n't intended to be connected to their net , but can be ad hoc connected to the first one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>" .
. .
who really matters at a university.
Clue: The faculty."Really?
A lot of faculty feel neglected and abused, too.If you can afford it, how about two computers?
One knows how to connect to their net (a netbook should do) and is a clean install of whatever OS they expect plus their snoopware.
It needs enough disk room to temporarily store any downloads you might want to store, enough memory for browsing, and a switch to take it off their net if its connection is wireless.The second, the one you have been using a while, isn't intended to be connected to their net, but can be ad hoc connected to the first one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235331</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237625</id>
	<title>Re:It's no worse than being at work</title>
	<author>DMalic</author>
	<datestamp>1244293920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What the crap is your own sense of morality and ethics?  What do you value?  I'm willing to bet there's a point where you sit and fume.  What spurs you to do so?

In my own experience, the most legalistic sounding people I've known have the most idiotic expectations of what they should be able to get away with and have done the dumbest, most immoral crap.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What the crap is your own sense of morality and ethics ?
What do you value ?
I 'm willing to bet there 's a point where you sit and fume .
What spurs you to do so ?
In my own experience , the most legalistic sounding people I 've known have the most idiotic expectations of what they should be able to get away with and have done the dumbest , most immoral crap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What the crap is your own sense of morality and ethics?
What do you value?
I'm willing to bet there's a point where you sit and fume.
What spurs you to do so?
In my own experience, the most legalistic sounding people I've known have the most idiotic expectations of what they should be able to get away with and have done the dumbest, most immoral crap.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235027</id>
	<title>Penn State - not as bad</title>
	<author>Phantom784</author>
	<datestamp>1244317560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To answer your question about other colleges, I'm a student at Penn State, and our policies are not nearly as extreme (at least currently).  We don't have to install any sort of client on our computer (with the exception of the Cisco VPN client to use the WiFi), and, in their official policy at least, they say don't monitor the content you send/recieve, only the amount (we have a 4 gigabyte/week bandwidth limit in the dorm rooms, but it only counts off-campus traffic).  They will call you into "Judicial Affairs" if they get a letter from the (RI/MP)AA, and if they detect a virus on your computer (I dunno how they do that, and it seems to go against  their claim they don't scan content you send on the network), they require you to bring it in to be reformated, or forfeit dorm room Internet access, which I believe is a privacy violation.  As far as the scanner goes, I recall reading about some sort of "install this scanner to access the network" program that only worked on Windows, so if they detected you were on Mac or Linux, you wouldn't have to install it. I dunno if your school is using the same program, but if they are, using a non-Windows operating system might keep your information more secure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>To answer your question about other colleges , I 'm a student at Penn State , and our policies are not nearly as extreme ( at least currently ) .
We do n't have to install any sort of client on our computer ( with the exception of the Cisco VPN client to use the WiFi ) , and , in their official policy at least , they say do n't monitor the content you send/recieve , only the amount ( we have a 4 gigabyte/week bandwidth limit in the dorm rooms , but it only counts off-campus traffic ) .
They will call you into " Judicial Affairs " if they get a letter from the ( RI/MP ) AA , and if they detect a virus on your computer ( I dunno how they do that , and it seems to go against their claim they do n't scan content you send on the network ) , they require you to bring it in to be reformated , or forfeit dorm room Internet access , which I believe is a privacy violation .
As far as the scanner goes , I recall reading about some sort of " install this scanner to access the network " program that only worked on Windows , so if they detected you were on Mac or Linux , you would n't have to install it .
I dunno if your school is using the same program , but if they are , using a non-Windows operating system might keep your information more secure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To answer your question about other colleges, I'm a student at Penn State, and our policies are not nearly as extreme (at least currently).
We don't have to install any sort of client on our computer (with the exception of the Cisco VPN client to use the WiFi), and, in their official policy at least, they say don't monitor the content you send/recieve, only the amount (we have a 4 gigabyte/week bandwidth limit in the dorm rooms, but it only counts off-campus traffic).
They will call you into "Judicial Affairs" if they get a letter from the (RI/MP)AA, and if they detect a virus on your computer (I dunno how they do that, and it seems to go against  their claim they don't scan content you send on the network), they require you to bring it in to be reformated, or forfeit dorm room Internet access, which I believe is a privacy violation.
As far as the scanner goes, I recall reading about some sort of "install this scanner to access the network" program that only worked on Windows, so if they detected you were on Mac or Linux, you wouldn't have to install it.
I dunno if your school is using the same program, but if they are, using a non-Windows operating system might keep your information more secure.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235321</id>
	<title>University of Nebraska-Lincoln</title>
	<author>rob1980</author>
	<datestamp>1244319120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The day you move in, they have you download a program that as far as I can see just checks your security status in Windows to verify that everything is green.  After that you're granted access and you can throw the program away.  This persists through OS reloads and moving between dorms (I did both last year) so I guess you're authenticated by your MAC address.<br> <br>
Having a Windows-only policy on campus is an insanely shortsighted thing to do, given the number of students using Macbooks and the presence of UNIX-type environments in computer science departments.  I'd wager if you just told them you run Linux you'd get a pass.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The day you move in , they have you download a program that as far as I can see just checks your security status in Windows to verify that everything is green .
After that you 're granted access and you can throw the program away .
This persists through OS reloads and moving between dorms ( I did both last year ) so I guess you 're authenticated by your MAC address .
Having a Windows-only policy on campus is an insanely shortsighted thing to do , given the number of students using Macbooks and the presence of UNIX-type environments in computer science departments .
I 'd wager if you just told them you run Linux you 'd get a pass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The day you move in, they have you download a program that as far as I can see just checks your security status in Windows to verify that everything is green.
After that you're granted access and you can throw the program away.
This persists through OS reloads and moving between dorms (I did both last year) so I guess you're authenticated by your MAC address.
Having a Windows-only policy on campus is an insanely shortsighted thing to do, given the number of students using Macbooks and the presence of UNIX-type environments in computer science departments.
I'd wager if you just told them you run Linux you'd get a pass.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28297521</id>
	<title>3 words</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244748240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cellular Air Card...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cellular Air Card.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cellular Air Card...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234985</id>
	<title>VPN</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1244317440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To get around the 'client security agent' tracking your apps/keystrokes/etc, use a VM and NAT the network connection. To get around the network tracking of what comes out of the VM you buy another PC and stick it at your parents or friends house somewhere else as a VPN server then use it to do all your 'sensitive' work. Then let them track it, its encrypted. The stuff you don't care about, go thru the school's network directly.</p><p>I suppose you could use one of those free/pay proxies instead of a 'home VPN', but that would be a bit more obvious what you were doing and set off some red flags ( or is blocked in the first place ).</p><p>Im assuming in this case its your PC and you can install whatever you please.</p><p>Oh, and consider protesting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To get around the 'client security agent ' tracking your apps/keystrokes/etc , use a VM and NAT the network connection .
To get around the network tracking of what comes out of the VM you buy another PC and stick it at your parents or friends house somewhere else as a VPN server then use it to do all your 'sensitive ' work .
Then let them track it , its encrypted .
The stuff you do n't care about , go thru the school 's network directly.I suppose you could use one of those free/pay proxies instead of a 'home VPN ' , but that would be a bit more obvious what you were doing and set off some red flags ( or is blocked in the first place ) .Im assuming in this case its your PC and you can install whatever you please.Oh , and consider protesting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To get around the 'client security agent' tracking your apps/keystrokes/etc, use a VM and NAT the network connection.
To get around the network tracking of what comes out of the VM you buy another PC and stick it at your parents or friends house somewhere else as a VPN server then use it to do all your 'sensitive' work.
Then let them track it, its encrypted.
The stuff you don't care about, go thru the school's network directly.I suppose you could use one of those free/pay proxies instead of a 'home VPN', but that would be a bit more obvious what you were doing and set off some red flags ( or is blocked in the first place ).Im assuming in this case its your PC and you can install whatever you please.Oh, and consider protesting.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235781</id>
	<title>Unrestricted Internet, restricted Intranet</title>
	<author>davidwr</author>
	<datestamp>1244321820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cafes, schools, offices, and other mass-networks should try something like this if they have the budget:</p><p>Let anyone get access to "the Internet" without requiring anything except proving you are an authorized user.  If I want Internet-only, I get the same access to campus resources as someone connecting from off-site without a VPN would.</p><p>If they want "on network" access to Intranet/LAN facilities, then they need to prove their machine is clean and not vulnerable to outside attack.</p><p>For universities, this should apply equally to non-university-owned computers in residence halls, professor's offices, labs, on wireless networks, or connecting to the LAN from off-campus via VPN or *gasp* dialup.</p><p>Of course, for university-owned computers, it's their computer so all bets are off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cafes , schools , offices , and other mass-networks should try something like this if they have the budget : Let anyone get access to " the Internet " without requiring anything except proving you are an authorized user .
If I want Internet-only , I get the same access to campus resources as someone connecting from off-site without a VPN would.If they want " on network " access to Intranet/LAN facilities , then they need to prove their machine is clean and not vulnerable to outside attack.For universities , this should apply equally to non-university-owned computers in residence halls , professor 's offices , labs , on wireless networks , or connecting to the LAN from off-campus via VPN or * gasp * dialup.Of course , for university-owned computers , it 's their computer so all bets are off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cafes, schools, offices, and other mass-networks should try something like this if they have the budget:Let anyone get access to "the Internet" without requiring anything except proving you are an authorized user.
If I want Internet-only, I get the same access to campus resources as someone connecting from off-site without a VPN would.If they want "on network" access to Intranet/LAN facilities, then they need to prove their machine is clean and not vulnerable to outside attack.For universities, this should apply equally to non-university-owned computers in residence halls, professor's offices, labs, on wireless networks, or connecting to the LAN from off-campus via VPN or *gasp* dialup.Of course, for university-owned computers, it's their computer so all bets are off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235679</id>
	<title>It's so simple</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let me see if I have this right...</p><p>You want us to tell you how to hack around the network/security/TOS of your university?<br>How about this observation from someone that also runs a network for students:</p><p>Comply with the policy when you use their infrastructure.</p><p>Now, how to go about that without invading your privacy? Easy - dual boot with encrypted file systems on the second partition. Keep pablum on the system you use to access their infrastructure. Keep your other stuff on a system you don't bring up using their infrastructure. Simple. If you don't want your browsing habits known (which I don't believe for a second they give a fart about), then go to a cyber cafe or something when you want to do things you don't want known.</p><p>Their network = their rules.</p><p>And for those that want to pick holes in their policies/make fun of how incompentent they are:</p><p>1. Not everytime do I tell my management team better ways to do what they want to do. Sometimes I think management is full of it. Now, if they ASK me, I have to tell them. But I don't have to open my big fat yap - and I don't, when I think they are being silly.</p><p>2. Not every "bone headed move" is all that bone headed. You need to be in the room to see why some direction was chosen. Sometimes it's stupidity, sometimes it a comprimise between time, money, resources, and what you really need to do. The old web blocking software wasn't very good at blocking http proxies. We simply didn't have the money or time to cobble up something better. All the people that knew this thought we were incompentent because it was so easy to get around the blocking software. The new software is very good at blocking that and a lot of other tricks. Our network = our rules. You're free to visit sites we don't like - on your own time, on your own network infrastructure, using your own computer. (Not that I agree with the policy, but it IS their network funded with tax dollars and subject to state law which requires web blocking software. Grow up and deal with it, change state law, or use your own stuff to do what they don't like.)</p><p>3. Get used to someone looking over your shoulder vis-a-vi computing. Employers are increasingly doing it, public institutions are required to do it, and others do it simply because they can. Failing to learn how to keep your stuff private is an invatation to these jerks to invade your privacy - so learn to make it difficult for them to do so. The first step in this process is to know that when you use someone else's network, computers, or infrastructure, they have a say in how that gets used. When you're on your own network, own computer, and own internet connection, THEN you can expect some privacy... if you're smart and use care.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let me see if I have this right...You want us to tell you how to hack around the network/security/TOS of your university ? How about this observation from someone that also runs a network for students : Comply with the policy when you use their infrastructure.Now , how to go about that without invading your privacy ?
Easy - dual boot with encrypted file systems on the second partition .
Keep pablum on the system you use to access their infrastructure .
Keep your other stuff on a system you do n't bring up using their infrastructure .
Simple. If you do n't want your browsing habits known ( which I do n't believe for a second they give a fart about ) , then go to a cyber cafe or something when you want to do things you do n't want known.Their network = their rules.And for those that want to pick holes in their policies/make fun of how incompentent they are : 1 .
Not everytime do I tell my management team better ways to do what they want to do .
Sometimes I think management is full of it .
Now , if they ASK me , I have to tell them .
But I do n't have to open my big fat yap - and I do n't , when I think they are being silly.2 .
Not every " bone headed move " is all that bone headed .
You need to be in the room to see why some direction was chosen .
Sometimes it 's stupidity , sometimes it a comprimise between time , money , resources , and what you really need to do .
The old web blocking software was n't very good at blocking http proxies .
We simply did n't have the money or time to cobble up something better .
All the people that knew this thought we were incompentent because it was so easy to get around the blocking software .
The new software is very good at blocking that and a lot of other tricks .
Our network = our rules .
You 're free to visit sites we do n't like - on your own time , on your own network infrastructure , using your own computer .
( Not that I agree with the policy , but it IS their network funded with tax dollars and subject to state law which requires web blocking software .
Grow up and deal with it , change state law , or use your own stuff to do what they do n't like. ) 3 .
Get used to someone looking over your shoulder vis-a-vi computing .
Employers are increasingly doing it , public institutions are required to do it , and others do it simply because they can .
Failing to learn how to keep your stuff private is an invatation to these jerks to invade your privacy - so learn to make it difficult for them to do so .
The first step in this process is to know that when you use someone else 's network , computers , or infrastructure , they have a say in how that gets used .
When you 're on your own network , own computer , and own internet connection , THEN you can expect some privacy... if you 're smart and use care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let me see if I have this right...You want us to tell you how to hack around the network/security/TOS of your university?How about this observation from someone that also runs a network for students:Comply with the policy when you use their infrastructure.Now, how to go about that without invading your privacy?
Easy - dual boot with encrypted file systems on the second partition.
Keep pablum on the system you use to access their infrastructure.
Keep your other stuff on a system you don't bring up using their infrastructure.
Simple. If you don't want your browsing habits known (which I don't believe for a second they give a fart about), then go to a cyber cafe or something when you want to do things you don't want known.Their network = their rules.And for those that want to pick holes in their policies/make fun of how incompentent they are:1.
Not everytime do I tell my management team better ways to do what they want to do.
Sometimes I think management is full of it.
Now, if they ASK me, I have to tell them.
But I don't have to open my big fat yap - and I don't, when I think they are being silly.2.
Not every "bone headed move" is all that bone headed.
You need to be in the room to see why some direction was chosen.
Sometimes it's stupidity, sometimes it a comprimise between time, money, resources, and what you really need to do.
The old web blocking software wasn't very good at blocking http proxies.
We simply didn't have the money or time to cobble up something better.
All the people that knew this thought we were incompentent because it was so easy to get around the blocking software.
The new software is very good at blocking that and a lot of other tricks.
Our network = our rules.
You're free to visit sites we don't like - on your own time, on your own network infrastructure, using your own computer.
(Not that I agree with the policy, but it IS their network funded with tax dollars and subject to state law which requires web blocking software.
Grow up and deal with it, change state law, or use your own stuff to do what they don't like.)3.
Get used to someone looking over your shoulder vis-a-vi computing.
Employers are increasingly doing it, public institutions are required to do it, and others do it simply because they can.
Failing to learn how to keep your stuff private is an invatation to these jerks to invade your privacy - so learn to make it difficult for them to do so.
The first step in this process is to know that when you use someone else's network, computers, or infrastructure, they have a say in how that gets used.
When you're on your own network, own computer, and own internet connection, THEN you can expect some privacy... if you're smart and use care.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235651</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Idiot with a gun</author>
	<datestamp>1244320980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know why Slashdot loves paranoid trolls like you. The idea of sifting through all of the data on a public university (or even my private university) to find all that stuff seems so daunting, I don't even want to consider it. If you're so concerned that this CSA has these magical powers you're concerned about (It doesn't, I work with one everyday), then monitor what it touches. Encrypt all of your private stuff. Or run Linux. Stop being annoying here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know why Slashdot loves paranoid trolls like you .
The idea of sifting through all of the data on a public university ( or even my private university ) to find all that stuff seems so daunting , I do n't even want to consider it .
If you 're so concerned that this CSA has these magical powers you 're concerned about ( It does n't , I work with one everyday ) , then monitor what it touches .
Encrypt all of your private stuff .
Or run Linux .
Stop being annoying here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know why Slashdot loves paranoid trolls like you.
The idea of sifting through all of the data on a public university (or even my private university) to find all that stuff seems so daunting, I don't even want to consider it.
If you're so concerned that this CSA has these magical powers you're concerned about (It doesn't, I work with one everyday), then monitor what it touches.
Encrypt all of your private stuff.
Or run Linux.
Stop being annoying here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235449</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237683</id>
	<title>BSD/Solaris</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244294340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Jails, anyone?  Any OS should give you the option to set up a secondary, limited account.  But if you're using either BSD or Solaris, you can set up a jail OS and run the client from the jail.  It may not be an option, but it could be a solution for you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Jails , anyone ?
Any OS should give you the option to set up a secondary , limited account .
But if you 're using either BSD or Solaris , you can set up a jail OS and run the client from the jail .
It may not be an option , but it could be a solution for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Jails, anyone?
Any OS should give you the option to set up a secondary, limited account.
But if you're using either BSD or Solaris, you can set up a jail OS and run the client from the jail.
It may not be an option, but it could be a solution for you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236303</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>fermion</author>
	<datestamp>1244281860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Honestly, this is the answer.  The reason to go to college is to get an education.  There are some secondary issues, but you are talking about spending four years of your life studying.  Four years that you could be using making money, not building debt and opportunity costs.  To me, worrying about network policy is like worrying about the availability of beer and sex partners.  Certainly an important issue, for not a critical issue, as the availability of all is reasonable at most colleges I have seen
<p>
To be more helpful, here is the way I see it.  Most passwords are sent over HTTPS, so those are likely to be at least as secure as any other public connections you might have use, say at high school or networks you might sniff out and use without explicit permission.  As far as passwords, assume all password used on campus assets are compromised.  Do not reuse these passwords on other services.  For instance, do not use a campus network password on faceboook.  Some other students with access to campus records will find the nakes you have posted.
</p><p>
Assume that all you web browsing habits will be tracked.  Most students studies are paid for by third parties, and as lame it might seem, third parties want to know if students are studying or playing.  Given that your university network is likely funded by private funds, the tax payer is interested to know whether the money is used to helping student learn or just troll of dates and pr0n.  Even though your personal habits are not likely of interest, as another poster suggested you are not as interesting as you think, such records might be exposed through an audit, and don't discount parental requests that very well might be paying for the education.
</p><p>
Emails should always be assumed to be public record when transmitted over a public network.  Set up PGP is this is of concern, or set up some one time code with your friends.  That is fun thing to do on those long college nights.  This is practice for corporate where it is always good to assume that people are reading you emails.  Running everything through google might help as the mail won't be stored on campus servers, as long as you don't mind having your college emails come back to haunt you in 10 years.
</p><p>
As far as the security agent, this might be genuine issue.  Again, it is likely only an issue if you a normal college student who does not college stuff.  OTOH, everyone on campus is a normal college student who does normal college stuff, so it would be imply you were an extraordinary person  to be of interest.  In any case, it looks like all this does is enforce best practices for Windows computers and make sure you are not creating a network yourself.  The simple solution, as has been mentioned, it to buy a Mac or *nix machines, both of which will limit what this application can do.  I have seen many of these apps, and they all work on Macintoshes.  The best thing to do is behave during college.  It is only four years, and they shouldn't be wasted playing with a computer when there are so many other fun things to play wit.
</p><p>
Here is the bottom line.  If the campus system is not to your liking, and you absolutely cannot refrain from criminal activity on your computer, and you cannot get into another school, then buy a wire cellular broadband connection.  Something like cricket will run a few hundred dollars for the year.  As much as people like to say college is absolute freedom, this is a myth.  There is freedom in some areas, but such freedoms are countered by additional responsibilities that the non college going public cannot manage.  That is why a college graduate is such a special thing.  They have proven they can handle the freedom, manage the responsibility, and succeed.  In high school, the drop out rate is high because most people are forced in 9th grade and never have to make a personal commitment to wake up in the morning.  They just quit as soon as they can.  Most college students are at college voluntarily, but half of them don't have a degree 4 years later, often because they spend all their time parting, and never learn to balance play and work, a critical skill employers look form.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Honestly , this is the answer .
The reason to go to college is to get an education .
There are some secondary issues , but you are talking about spending four years of your life studying .
Four years that you could be using making money , not building debt and opportunity costs .
To me , worrying about network policy is like worrying about the availability of beer and sex partners .
Certainly an important issue , for not a critical issue , as the availability of all is reasonable at most colleges I have seen To be more helpful , here is the way I see it .
Most passwords are sent over HTTPS , so those are likely to be at least as secure as any other public connections you might have use , say at high school or networks you might sniff out and use without explicit permission .
As far as passwords , assume all password used on campus assets are compromised .
Do not reuse these passwords on other services .
For instance , do not use a campus network password on faceboook .
Some other students with access to campus records will find the nakes you have posted .
Assume that all you web browsing habits will be tracked .
Most students studies are paid for by third parties , and as lame it might seem , third parties want to know if students are studying or playing .
Given that your university network is likely funded by private funds , the tax payer is interested to know whether the money is used to helping student learn or just troll of dates and pr0n .
Even though your personal habits are not likely of interest , as another poster suggested you are not as interesting as you think , such records might be exposed through an audit , and do n't discount parental requests that very well might be paying for the education .
Emails should always be assumed to be public record when transmitted over a public network .
Set up PGP is this is of concern , or set up some one time code with your friends .
That is fun thing to do on those long college nights .
This is practice for corporate where it is always good to assume that people are reading you emails .
Running everything through google might help as the mail wo n't be stored on campus servers , as long as you do n't mind having your college emails come back to haunt you in 10 years .
As far as the security agent , this might be genuine issue .
Again , it is likely only an issue if you a normal college student who does not college stuff .
OTOH , everyone on campus is a normal college student who does normal college stuff , so it would be imply you were an extraordinary person to be of interest .
In any case , it looks like all this does is enforce best practices for Windows computers and make sure you are not creating a network yourself .
The simple solution , as has been mentioned , it to buy a Mac or * nix machines , both of which will limit what this application can do .
I have seen many of these apps , and they all work on Macintoshes .
The best thing to do is behave during college .
It is only four years , and they should n't be wasted playing with a computer when there are so many other fun things to play wit .
Here is the bottom line .
If the campus system is not to your liking , and you absolutely can not refrain from criminal activity on your computer , and you can not get into another school , then buy a wire cellular broadband connection .
Something like cricket will run a few hundred dollars for the year .
As much as people like to say college is absolute freedom , this is a myth .
There is freedom in some areas , but such freedoms are countered by additional responsibilities that the non college going public can not manage .
That is why a college graduate is such a special thing .
They have proven they can handle the freedom , manage the responsibility , and succeed .
In high school , the drop out rate is high because most people are forced in 9th grade and never have to make a personal commitment to wake up in the morning .
They just quit as soon as they can .
Most college students are at college voluntarily , but half of them do n't have a degree 4 years later , often because they spend all their time parting , and never learn to balance play and work , a critical skill employers look form .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honestly, this is the answer.
The reason to go to college is to get an education.
There are some secondary issues, but you are talking about spending four years of your life studying.
Four years that you could be using making money, not building debt and opportunity costs.
To me, worrying about network policy is like worrying about the availability of beer and sex partners.
Certainly an important issue, for not a critical issue, as the availability of all is reasonable at most colleges I have seen

To be more helpful, here is the way I see it.
Most passwords are sent over HTTPS, so those are likely to be at least as secure as any other public connections you might have use, say at high school or networks you might sniff out and use without explicit permission.
As far as passwords, assume all password used on campus assets are compromised.
Do not reuse these passwords on other services.
For instance, do not use a campus network password on faceboook.
Some other students with access to campus records will find the nakes you have posted.
Assume that all you web browsing habits will be tracked.
Most students studies are paid for by third parties, and as lame it might seem, third parties want to know if students are studying or playing.
Given that your university network is likely funded by private funds, the tax payer is interested to know whether the money is used to helping student learn or just troll of dates and pr0n.
Even though your personal habits are not likely of interest, as another poster suggested you are not as interesting as you think, such records might be exposed through an audit, and don't discount parental requests that very well might be paying for the education.
Emails should always be assumed to be public record when transmitted over a public network.
Set up PGP is this is of concern, or set up some one time code with your friends.
That is fun thing to do on those long college nights.
This is practice for corporate where it is always good to assume that people are reading you emails.
Running everything through google might help as the mail won't be stored on campus servers, as long as you don't mind having your college emails come back to haunt you in 10 years.
As far as the security agent, this might be genuine issue.
Again, it is likely only an issue if you a normal college student who does not college stuff.
OTOH, everyone on campus is a normal college student who does normal college stuff, so it would be imply you were an extraordinary person  to be of interest.
In any case, it looks like all this does is enforce best practices for Windows computers and make sure you are not creating a network yourself.
The simple solution, as has been mentioned, it to buy a Mac or *nix machines, both of which will limit what this application can do.
I have seen many of these apps, and they all work on Macintoshes.
The best thing to do is behave during college.
It is only four years, and they shouldn't be wasted playing with a computer when there are so many other fun things to play wit.
Here is the bottom line.
If the campus system is not to your liking, and you absolutely cannot refrain from criminal activity on your computer, and you cannot get into another school, then buy a wire cellular broadband connection.
Something like cricket will run a few hundred dollars for the year.
As much as people like to say college is absolute freedom, this is a myth.
There is freedom in some areas, but such freedoms are countered by additional responsibilities that the non college going public cannot manage.
That is why a college graduate is such a special thing.
They have proven they can handle the freedom, manage the responsibility, and succeed.
In high school, the drop out rate is high because most people are forced in 9th grade and never have to make a personal commitment to wake up in the morning.
They just quit as soon as they can.
Most college students are at college voluntarily, but half of them don't have a degree 4 years later, often because they spend all their time parting, and never learn to balance play and work, a critical skill employers look form.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28269317</id>
	<title>One possible solution...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244575800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>As someone who was in college not too long ago, I have experience with this.  My school's network policy had two phases (this might not work if yours isn't like this).  The first phase was to determine your OS and register your machine and OS by MAC address.  Phase two was the additional requirements for Windows machines (must run school antivirus, must be at least win2k, etc).  The solution I used was to boot to a Linux live cd (anything with a browser should work) and do the network registration phase from the linux environment.  This would cause my MAC address to get registered as having a Linux OS and therefore be exempt from the Windows rules.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who was in college not too long ago , I have experience with this .
My school 's network policy had two phases ( this might not work if yours is n't like this ) .
The first phase was to determine your OS and register your machine and OS by MAC address .
Phase two was the additional requirements for Windows machines ( must run school antivirus , must be at least win2k , etc ) .
The solution I used was to boot to a Linux live cd ( anything with a browser should work ) and do the network registration phase from the linux environment .
This would cause my MAC address to get registered as having a Linux OS and therefore be exempt from the Windows rules .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who was in college not too long ago, I have experience with this.
My school's network policy had two phases (this might not work if yours isn't like this).
The first phase was to determine your OS and register your machine and OS by MAC address.
Phase two was the additional requirements for Windows machines (must run school antivirus, must be at least win2k, etc).
The solution I used was to boot to a Linux live cd (anything with a browser should work) and do the network registration phase from the linux environment.
This would cause my MAC address to get registered as having a Linux OS and therefore be exempt from the Windows rules.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235767</id>
	<title>Gotta love Slashdot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Look, I'm a ResCon at ResNet, granted at a different university though. We're nice people, and we'll try to accomodate you as best as possible. Want to register Linux? Sure, you won't need to install a CSA. Same for Macs, phones, consoles, printers, routers, etc. The CSA is mostly just to reduce the number of windows machines getting viruses. <br> <br> But, if you walk into my office bitching about our "draconian network policices," I'm going to get annoyed with you, but I'll kindly explain why they're in place (and how I'm not the one that made them). If you grab a PS3 and declare that "You can't install your Nazi CSA program on this!" I'm going to ask you to leave, and contact my boss. If you work with the IT people, and are nice to them, it's easy to maintain your decent level of freedom and privacy (except for piracy, sorry) while at your university. If you make every attempt to side step it, abuse the network, and generally come across as a jerk, it's a fast way to get your internet usage permanently rescinded.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , I 'm a ResCon at ResNet , granted at a different university though .
We 're nice people , and we 'll try to accomodate you as best as possible .
Want to register Linux ?
Sure , you wo n't need to install a CSA .
Same for Macs , phones , consoles , printers , routers , etc .
The CSA is mostly just to reduce the number of windows machines getting viruses .
But , if you walk into my office bitching about our " draconian network policices , " I 'm going to get annoyed with you , but I 'll kindly explain why they 're in place ( and how I 'm not the one that made them ) .
If you grab a PS3 and declare that " You ca n't install your Nazi CSA program on this !
" I 'm going to ask you to leave , and contact my boss .
If you work with the IT people , and are nice to them , it 's easy to maintain your decent level of freedom and privacy ( except for piracy , sorry ) while at your university .
If you make every attempt to side step it , abuse the network , and generally come across as a jerk , it 's a fast way to get your internet usage permanently rescinded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, I'm a ResCon at ResNet, granted at a different university though.
We're nice people, and we'll try to accomodate you as best as possible.
Want to register Linux?
Sure, you won't need to install a CSA.
Same for Macs, phones, consoles, printers, routers, etc.
The CSA is mostly just to reduce the number of windows machines getting viruses.
But, if you walk into my office bitching about our "draconian network policices," I'm going to get annoyed with you, but I'll kindly explain why they're in place (and how I'm not the one that made them).
If you grab a PS3 and declare that "You can't install your Nazi CSA program on this!
" I'm going to ask you to leave, and contact my boss.
If you work with the IT people, and are nice to them, it's easy to maintain your decent level of freedom and privacy (except for piracy, sorry) while at your university.
If you make every attempt to side step it, abuse the network, and generally come across as a jerk, it's a fast way to get your internet usage permanently rescinded.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235889</id>
	<title>Re:Whoa what?</title>
	<author>uvsc\_wolverine</author>
	<datestamp>1244279160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeesh, how draconian.  The university I work for uses Cisco's Clean Access product to ensure Windows users have Windows updates and an anti-virus, but we would never claim the right to unfettered access to student's computers.  We can get into the files that students store on our network, but we don't really care what's in your student drive.  We only ever look in there if there's a suspicion of wrongdoing or if the student asks us to (like a former student who can't get into the drive anymore and needs some file).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeesh , how draconian .
The university I work for uses Cisco 's Clean Access product to ensure Windows users have Windows updates and an anti-virus , but we would never claim the right to unfettered access to student 's computers .
We can get into the files that students store on our network , but we do n't really care what 's in your student drive .
We only ever look in there if there 's a suspicion of wrongdoing or if the student asks us to ( like a former student who ca n't get into the drive anymore and needs some file ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeesh, how draconian.
The university I work for uses Cisco's Clean Access product to ensure Windows users have Windows updates and an anti-virus, but we would never claim the right to unfettered access to student's computers.
We can get into the files that students store on our network, but we don't really care what's in your student drive.
We only ever look in there if there's a suspicion of wrongdoing or if the student asks us to (like a former student who can't get into the drive anymore and needs some file).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235005</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235839</id>
	<title>Re:Client Page.</title>
	<author>uvsc\_wolverine</author>
	<datestamp>1244278860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...and the Helpdesk or network engineers response will be:
"We don't care what's on your computer as long as you are up to date security-wise.  If you don't want to install the security software then we don't have to give you Internet access."  I work in IT at a large University and this is exactly what we do.  We do make rare exceptions to the security policy for certain edge cases (such as the occasional "The stupid crappy Cisco Clean Access software just won't freaking work!" or "I paid for an anti-virus that Clean Access doesn't support").</htmltext>
<tokenext>...and the Helpdesk or network engineers response will be : " We do n't care what 's on your computer as long as you are up to date security-wise .
If you do n't want to install the security software then we do n't have to give you Internet access .
" I work in IT at a large University and this is exactly what we do .
We do make rare exceptions to the security policy for certain edge cases ( such as the occasional " The stupid crappy Cisco Clean Access software just wo n't freaking work !
" or " I paid for an anti-virus that Clean Access does n't support " ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and the Helpdesk or network engineers response will be:
"We don't care what's on your computer as long as you are up to date security-wise.
If you don't want to install the security software then we don't have to give you Internet access.
"  I work in IT at a large University and this is exactly what we do.
We do make rare exceptions to the security policy for certain edge cases (such as the occasional "The stupid crappy Cisco Clean Access software just won't freaking work!
" or "I paid for an anti-virus that Clean Access doesn't support").</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234983</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236651</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1244284560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Without registration, you can go to a different lab, plug in, and get right past the ban.
</p><p>
Also, identifying who and where you are exactly in order to contact you and effectively implement any sort of ban or measure other than a ban could be a problem.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Without registration , you can go to a different lab , plug in , and get right past the ban .
Also , identifying who and where you are exactly in order to contact you and effectively implement any sort of ban or measure other than a ban could be a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Without registration, you can go to a different lab, plug in, and get right past the ban.
Also, identifying who and where you are exactly in order to contact you and effectively implement any sort of ban or measure other than a ban could be a problem.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235615</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235577</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244320440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well as it happens I'm not doing anything wrong, but that's beside the point.  My house isn't an impenetrable fortress, and any number of people - including the police - could probably break in and snoop around at any time.  The point is that the police *don't*, because they have real jobs to do.</p><p>Or maybe they *do* and I just don't know it!  If so, what's the difference?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well as it happens I 'm not doing anything wrong , but that 's beside the point .
My house is n't an impenetrable fortress , and any number of people - including the police - could probably break in and snoop around at any time .
The point is that the police * do n't * , because they have real jobs to do.Or maybe they * do * and I just do n't know it !
If so , what 's the difference ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well as it happens I'm not doing anything wrong, but that's beside the point.
My house isn't an impenetrable fortress, and any number of people - including the police - could probably break in and snoop around at any time.
The point is that the police *don't*, because they have real jobs to do.Or maybe they *do* and I just don't know it!
If so, what's the difference?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236543</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244283600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At my uni they have decent network security and just recomend MS users to keep upto date, as a good 20-30\% of people here are using linux and about 70\% duel booting chances of forcing a security program are slim to nill.  IT works for us, we don't work for IT.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At my uni they have decent network security and just recomend MS users to keep upto date , as a good 20-30 \ % of people here are using linux and about 70 \ % duel booting chances of forcing a security program are slim to nill .
IT works for us , we do n't work for IT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At my uni they have decent network security and just recomend MS users to keep upto date, as a good 20-30\% of people here are using linux and about 70\% duel booting chances of forcing a security program are slim to nill.
IT works for us, we don't work for IT.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236413</id>
	<title>Safe*Connect is another such program.</title>
	<author>Neo Quietus</author>
	<datestamp>1244282640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My University uses Safe*Connect to make sure we're up to date and a few other things, I guess.
<br>
<br>
The reason I say "I guess" is because as soon as I heard that they would be requiring it to get onto the network I searched the web for a workaround, which was easy: just change your browser's user agent string to say that you are running Linux.  They have to let systems that they don't have a client program for on the network, because otherwise they'd piss off every X-BOX 360 and PS3 user out there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My University uses Safe * Connect to make sure we 're up to date and a few other things , I guess .
The reason I say " I guess " is because as soon as I heard that they would be requiring it to get onto the network I searched the web for a workaround , which was easy : just change your browser 's user agent string to say that you are running Linux .
They have to let systems that they do n't have a client program for on the network , because otherwise they 'd piss off every X-BOX 360 and PS3 user out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My University uses Safe*Connect to make sure we're up to date and a few other things, I guess.
The reason I say "I guess" is because as soon as I heard that they would be requiring it to get onto the network I searched the web for a workaround, which was easy: just change your browser's user agent string to say that you are running Linux.
They have to let systems that they don't have a client program for on the network, because otherwise they'd piss off every X-BOX 360 and PS3 user out there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235759</id>
	<title>proxy...</title>
	<author>MadCow42</author>
	<datestamp>1244321580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In your dorm room at least, a proxy server would do. Let it be scanned.</p><p>For wireless / laptop, you could proxy through a virtual machine.</p><p>Madcow</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In your dorm room at least , a proxy server would do .
Let it be scanned.For wireless / laptop , you could proxy through a virtual machine.Madcow</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In your dorm room at least, a proxy server would do.
Let it be scanned.For wireless / laptop, you could proxy through a virtual machine.Madcow</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236955</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>uvsc\_wolverine</author>
	<datestamp>1244287140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The school I work for is also a little unique because considering the size of our student body, we have no on-campus housing.  The Internet connection is on-campus only.  We don't have any dorms that we provide Internet to so the only time students have access to our network resources is when they're on-campus for classes and such.  They're free to uninstall Clean Access when they leave, but they'll need to put it right back on when they try to use the wireless again.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The school I work for is also a little unique because considering the size of our student body , we have no on-campus housing .
The Internet connection is on-campus only .
We do n't have any dorms that we provide Internet to so the only time students have access to our network resources is when they 're on-campus for classes and such .
They 're free to uninstall Clean Access when they leave , but they 'll need to put it right back on when they try to use the wireless again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The school I work for is also a little unique because considering the size of our student body, we have no on-campus housing.
The Internet connection is on-campus only.
We don't have any dorms that we provide Internet to so the only time students have access to our network resources is when they're on-campus for classes and such.
They're free to uninstall Clean Access when they leave, but they'll need to put it right back on when they try to use the wireless again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235885</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235163</id>
	<title>we had that CSA thing at uni</title>
	<author>wjh31</author>
	<datestamp>1244318280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>yes it scanned the computer, but it was looking for programs not illegal files. It was used to make sure that each computer accessing the network had all the 'neccecery' security software installed. While understandable it was somewhat annoying when it required windows updates that didnt work very well through the restictie firewall you were put behind until you passed the security check. It was something you downloaded and ran once per term. It didnt actually require and install and wasnt needed beyond that (might be used more depending on the exact policy of your college). <br> <br> As some have pointed out, linux/mac is the answer if you really dont want it on your computer. The<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.exe obviously wont run outside of windows, so anyone running linux/mac was waved through security for the duration with no real checks atall. Infact a few of my friends would dual boot MS/linux and use linux to be waved through the security then revert to MS when they were through</htmltext>
<tokenext>yes it scanned the computer , but it was looking for programs not illegal files .
It was used to make sure that each computer accessing the network had all the 'neccecery ' security software installed .
While understandable it was somewhat annoying when it required windows updates that didnt work very well through the restictie firewall you were put behind until you passed the security check .
It was something you downloaded and ran once per term .
It didnt actually require and install and wasnt needed beyond that ( might be used more depending on the exact policy of your college ) .
As some have pointed out , linux/mac is the answer if you really dont want it on your computer .
The .exe obviously wont run outside of windows , so anyone running linux/mac was waved through security for the duration with no real checks atall .
Infact a few of my friends would dual boot MS/linux and use linux to be waved through the security then revert to MS when they were through</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yes it scanned the computer, but it was looking for programs not illegal files.
It was used to make sure that each computer accessing the network had all the 'neccecery' security software installed.
While understandable it was somewhat annoying when it required windows updates that didnt work very well through the restictie firewall you were put behind until you passed the security check.
It was something you downloaded and ran once per term.
It didnt actually require and install and wasnt needed beyond that (might be used more depending on the exact policy of your college).
As some have pointed out, linux/mac is the answer if you really dont want it on your computer.
The .exe obviously wont run outside of windows, so anyone running linux/mac was waved through security for the duration with no real checks atall.
Infact a few of my friends would dual boot MS/linux and use linux to be waved through the security then revert to MS when they were through</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237331</id>
	<title>Re:That's STILL insane.</title>
	<author>nadaou</author>
	<datestamp>1244290980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In no way do you have merit to dictate those terms. If you don't like it, then don't attend or try to convince them to change those terms. Either way, "Adults" should understand this is a contract, and you have very little negotiating power.</p></div></blockquote><p>that is completely and utterly ridiculous.</p><p>hell, if you can't even find the brass to stand up to a moronic IT policy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>you might as well go out and get a tshirt that says "rape is easier if you shut up and let it happen."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In no way do you have merit to dictate those terms .
If you do n't like it , then do n't attend or try to convince them to change those terms .
Either way , " Adults " should understand this is a contract , and you have very little negotiating power.that is completely and utterly ridiculous.hell , if you ca n't even find the brass to stand up to a moronic IT policy ...you might as well go out and get a tshirt that says " rape is easier if you shut up and let it happen .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In no way do you have merit to dictate those terms.
If you don't like it, then don't attend or try to convince them to change those terms.
Either way, "Adults" should understand this is a contract, and you have very little negotiating power.that is completely and utterly ridiculous.hell, if you can't even find the brass to stand up to a moronic IT policy ...you might as well go out and get a tshirt that says "rape is easier if you shut up and let it happen.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237991</id>
	<title>Re:Solution For College's Bad Network Policy?</title>
	<author>hazem</author>
	<datestamp>1244296980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A technical solution that "gets around" it will most likely get you suspended; it's happened before:<br><a href="http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/27/203232" title="slashdot.org">http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/27/203232</a> [slashdot.org]</p><p>(and a good friend of mine who was a professor also was denied tenure over this incident).  Sadly IT at universities tends to be a little kingdom of people who think they are more important than everything else going on - in fact, this isn't just at universities...</p><p>The best thing you can do is go to the dean of the school you're planning to attend and say, "gee, I was really looking forward to attending your university, but I will not attend if I have to install this monitoring software to use the network.".</p><p>Deans care a whole lot about enrollment numbers and having good students and if they are going to lose good student due to a stupid policy, there will be pressure to alter the policy or at least grant an exception.</p><p>Good luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A technical solution that " gets around " it will most likely get you suspended ; it 's happened before : http : //it.slashdot.org/article.pl ? sid = 07/04/27/203232 [ slashdot.org ] ( and a good friend of mine who was a professor also was denied tenure over this incident ) .
Sadly IT at universities tends to be a little kingdom of people who think they are more important than everything else going on - in fact , this is n't just at universities...The best thing you can do is go to the dean of the school you 're planning to attend and say , " gee , I was really looking forward to attending your university , but I will not attend if I have to install this monitoring software to use the network .
" .Deans care a whole lot about enrollment numbers and having good students and if they are going to lose good student due to a stupid policy , there will be pressure to alter the policy or at least grant an exception.Good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A technical solution that "gets around" it will most likely get you suspended; it's happened before:http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/27/203232 [slashdot.org](and a good friend of mine who was a professor also was denied tenure over this incident).
Sadly IT at universities tends to be a little kingdom of people who think they are more important than everything else going on - in fact, this isn't just at universities...The best thing you can do is go to the dean of the school you're planning to attend and say, "gee, I was really looking forward to attending your university, but I will not attend if I have to install this monitoring software to use the network.
".Deans care a whole lot about enrollment numbers and having good students and if they are going to lose good student due to a stupid policy, there will be pressure to alter the policy or at least grant an exception.Good luck.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235349</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236809</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1244285760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
No, but I wouldn't expect the utility company to turn on the electricity to your house if you didn't allow the building inspectors to come and certify that the wiring is in usable condition.
</p><p>
Or to keep you powered up if you removed the meter,  if the box looked like you had tampered with it, or if you denied them access to your house, so they couldn't periodically come in and inspect the meter/box in your basement.
</p><p>
If you start a fire with faulty wiring, it's not just your house in danger,  you create a public safety hazard.
</p><p>
Just like faulty computer security creates a pubic  worm infection hazard.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , but I would n't expect the utility company to turn on the electricity to your house if you did n't allow the building inspectors to come and certify that the wiring is in usable condition .
Or to keep you powered up if you removed the meter , if the box looked like you had tampered with it , or if you denied them access to your house , so they could n't periodically come in and inspect the meter/box in your basement .
If you start a fire with faulty wiring , it 's not just your house in danger , you create a public safety hazard .
Just like faulty computer security creates a pubic worm infection hazard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
No, but I wouldn't expect the utility company to turn on the electricity to your house if you didn't allow the building inspectors to come and certify that the wiring is in usable condition.
Or to keep you powered up if you removed the meter,  if the box looked like you had tampered with it, or if you denied them access to your house, so they couldn't periodically come in and inspect the meter/box in your basement.
If you start a fire with faulty wiring, it's not just your house in danger,  you create a public safety hazard.
Just like faulty computer security creates a pubic  worm infection hazard.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239267</id>
	<title>If you can afford it...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244312400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get your own connection.  If they have cable lines in the dorm, see if you can get a cable modem.  If not... you will probably have to go with a cellular option. You may want to keep a second computer around to plug into the network just in case you have to access their local network for a class or something like that.  I would suggest an old outdated laptop.  Small, since you don't want to take up space in a dorm with something you do not use regularly and cheap since it's old.</p><p>As for such policies, all I can say is WOW.  That is ridiculous.  It would be great if students would get up and protest.  I don't think Americans have enough backbone left for such a thing though.  If they did we would see 60s style protests for the Iraq war like there was for Vietnam.  Of course, even if they had the backbone I doubt you could get the general population interested in such a "technical" issue.</p><p>To those who defend the universities for protecting their bandwidth, etc... I challenge you to explain why the rest of the world's ISPs are somehow different.  Also, even if the intentions are good, prove it!  The university's property ends somewhere around the network jack.  Hands off! Not even in China, with their great firewall do they mandate client side spyware!  If it's really about bandwidth usage then perhaps it's time for better, smarter routers which will not give 90\% of the bandwidth to 1 person just because their P2P program requested a ton of connections.  I don't want to hear about funding.  I'm sure it could be built with off the shelf hardware and the work could be someone's thesis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get your own connection .
If they have cable lines in the dorm , see if you can get a cable modem .
If not... you will probably have to go with a cellular option .
You may want to keep a second computer around to plug into the network just in case you have to access their local network for a class or something like that .
I would suggest an old outdated laptop .
Small , since you do n't want to take up space in a dorm with something you do not use regularly and cheap since it 's old.As for such policies , all I can say is WOW .
That is ridiculous .
It would be great if students would get up and protest .
I do n't think Americans have enough backbone left for such a thing though .
If they did we would see 60s style protests for the Iraq war like there was for Vietnam .
Of course , even if they had the backbone I doubt you could get the general population interested in such a " technical " issue.To those who defend the universities for protecting their bandwidth , etc... I challenge you to explain why the rest of the world 's ISPs are somehow different .
Also , even if the intentions are good , prove it !
The university 's property ends somewhere around the network jack .
Hands off !
Not even in China , with their great firewall do they mandate client side spyware !
If it 's really about bandwidth usage then perhaps it 's time for better , smarter routers which will not give 90 \ % of the bandwidth to 1 person just because their P2P program requested a ton of connections .
I do n't want to hear about funding .
I 'm sure it could be built with off the shelf hardware and the work could be someone 's thesis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get your own connection.
If they have cable lines in the dorm, see if you can get a cable modem.
If not... you will probably have to go with a cellular option.
You may want to keep a second computer around to plug into the network just in case you have to access their local network for a class or something like that.
I would suggest an old outdated laptop.
Small, since you don't want to take up space in a dorm with something you do not use regularly and cheap since it's old.As for such policies, all I can say is WOW.
That is ridiculous.
It would be great if students would get up and protest.
I don't think Americans have enough backbone left for such a thing though.
If they did we would see 60s style protests for the Iraq war like there was for Vietnam.
Of course, even if they had the backbone I doubt you could get the general population interested in such a "technical" issue.To those who defend the universities for protecting their bandwidth, etc... I challenge you to explain why the rest of the world's ISPs are somehow different.
Also, even if the intentions are good, prove it!
The university's property ends somewhere around the network jack.
Hands off!
Not even in China, with their great firewall do they mandate client side spyware!
If it's really about bandwidth usage then perhaps it's time for better, smarter routers which will not give 90\% of the bandwidth to 1 person just because their P2P program requested a ton of connections.
I don't want to hear about funding.
I'm sure it could be built with off the shelf hardware and the work could be someone's thesis.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236481</id>
	<title>Get a real college</title>
	<author>FrankieBaby1986</author>
	<datestamp>1244283120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow. I thought college was supposed to be a bastion of learning, opportunity, and freedom. Sound like that college sucks. I hate to say it, but if their internet policy is so retarded, you can bet it's not the only shortcoming at the campus. Go to a school that treats you like an adult.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow .
I thought college was supposed to be a bastion of learning , opportunity , and freedom .
Sound like that college sucks .
I hate to say it , but if their internet policy is so retarded , you can bet it 's not the only shortcoming at the campus .
Go to a school that treats you like an adult .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow.
I thought college was supposed to be a bastion of learning, opportunity, and freedom.
Sound like that college sucks.
I hate to say it, but if their internet policy is so retarded, you can bet it's not the only shortcoming at the campus.
Go to a school that treats you like an adult.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237817</id>
	<title>Re:You're not as interesting as you think you are</title>
	<author>mdmkolbe</author>
	<datestamp>1244295600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not that I don't trust <em>you</em>.  I don't trust the software to not significantly slow down my machine or expose me to more attack vectors or break and interact badly with the rest of my machine or change settings that I've tweaked.  I've had all these happen before with required security software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not that I do n't trust you .
I do n't trust the software to not significantly slow down my machine or expose me to more attack vectors or break and interact badly with the rest of my machine or change settings that I 've tweaked .
I 've had all these happen before with required security software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not that I don't trust you.
I don't trust the software to not significantly slow down my machine or expose me to more attack vectors or break and interact badly with the rest of my machine or change settings that I've tweaked.
I've had all these happen before with required security software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236351</id>
	<title>Coincidentally...</title>
	<author>damn\_registrars</author>
	<datestamp>1244282160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you want to run windows, but the software they want you to install bothers you, you could try running cygwin (with sshd) on your box.  When I was at a school that regularly did campus-wide scans, I had a win2k box running cygwin and at least one of their scans saw it as a "unix" box, rather than a windows box.<br> <br>
If their scans tell them that you are running unix, and you tell them you are running unix, they will probably believe you.<br> <br>
Of course another option would be to just not use your own computer on their network.  You could have it in your dorm and not on the network; using only their systems when you need network/internet access.  Obviously that approach has costs, too, but you wouldn't have to worry about the fate of your own machine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to run windows , but the software they want you to install bothers you , you could try running cygwin ( with sshd ) on your box .
When I was at a school that regularly did campus-wide scans , I had a win2k box running cygwin and at least one of their scans saw it as a " unix " box , rather than a windows box .
If their scans tell them that you are running unix , and you tell them you are running unix , they will probably believe you .
Of course another option would be to just not use your own computer on their network .
You could have it in your dorm and not on the network ; using only their systems when you need network/internet access .
Obviously that approach has costs , too , but you would n't have to worry about the fate of your own machine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to run windows, but the software they want you to install bothers you, you could try running cygwin (with sshd) on your box.
When I was at a school that regularly did campus-wide scans, I had a win2k box running cygwin and at least one of their scans saw it as a "unix" box, rather than a windows box.
If their scans tell them that you are running unix, and you tell them you are running unix, they will probably believe you.
Of course another option would be to just not use your own computer on their network.
You could have it in your dorm and not on the network; using only their systems when you need network/internet access.
Obviously that approach has costs, too, but you wouldn't have to worry about the fate of your own machine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238505</id>
	<title>Re:That's insane.</title>
	<author>larsu</author>
	<datestamp>1244302500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I manage a team of network admins at a university that uses the same software as CMU.  The software does have agents available for Mac and Linux too.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Stupid question, what if your machine is a Mac or Linux box? This "Client Security Agent" seems to be a Windows-only beast. Whatever it is, it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university that I'm paying money to dictate that I have to have their software on my machine to use the Internet access that my tuition and fees are paying for!</p></div><p>Here's the problem.  The IT staff has a number of conflicting expectations for the network.  There are N-1 other students at the university also paying tuition and they also expect the network to work.  School administration expects it to work, with priority given to academic purposes.  While it isn't ideal to require that students trust our software to run on their computer, it allows the school's IT staff to ensure computers comply with policy (current AV, anti-spyware, etc), and that computers that are causing network problems can be quickly identified and the problem mitigated. (And believe me, a comprehensive network access system greatly speeds problem resolution, both for the network and the student.)  Keeping bad computers off the network lets the network keep working for everyone else that didn't mess up their computer with malicious software.  It'd be nice to somehow exempt students that know what they're doing from this intrusive, annoying process.  But like many things, a few bad apples ruin it for everyone.</p><p>The software allows policies to be set for AV existence and version, anti-spyware, and OS version and updates.  It also allows custom scans to be written to check for files and registry keys.  No other info gets sent to the administrators other than if you have failed or passed such a scan.  No one is spying on you, or cares that much about what's on your computer.  They just want the network to work.</p><p>There are agentless NAC solutions available, but they are more annoying for the user and less correct for the administrators.  Having no NAC really isn't a feasible option anymore for schools of any decent size, as they need to comply with CALEA and respond to RIAA, REN-ISAC, and other internal/external complaints.  If you don't trust your school, and are that concerned about running untrusted code from a vendor picked by your school, then don't.  Don't use the network, and have fun with your protest.  The administrators aren't forcing this upon the students because they're unsympathetic to their concerns.  But rather, because they need to serve all students well.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I manage a team of network admins at a university that uses the same software as CMU .
The software does have agents available for Mac and Linux too.Stupid question , what if your machine is a Mac or Linux box ?
This " Client Security Agent " seems to be a Windows-only beast .
Whatever it is , it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university that I 'm paying money to dictate that I have to have their software on my machine to use the Internet access that my tuition and fees are paying for ! Here 's the problem .
The IT staff has a number of conflicting expectations for the network .
There are N-1 other students at the university also paying tuition and they also expect the network to work .
School administration expects it to work , with priority given to academic purposes .
While it is n't ideal to require that students trust our software to run on their computer , it allows the school 's IT staff to ensure computers comply with policy ( current AV , anti-spyware , etc ) , and that computers that are causing network problems can be quickly identified and the problem mitigated .
( And believe me , a comprehensive network access system greatly speeds problem resolution , both for the network and the student .
) Keeping bad computers off the network lets the network keep working for everyone else that did n't mess up their computer with malicious software .
It 'd be nice to somehow exempt students that know what they 're doing from this intrusive , annoying process .
But like many things , a few bad apples ruin it for everyone.The software allows policies to be set for AV existence and version , anti-spyware , and OS version and updates .
It also allows custom scans to be written to check for files and registry keys .
No other info gets sent to the administrators other than if you have failed or passed such a scan .
No one is spying on you , or cares that much about what 's on your computer .
They just want the network to work.There are agentless NAC solutions available , but they are more annoying for the user and less correct for the administrators .
Having no NAC really is n't a feasible option anymore for schools of any decent size , as they need to comply with CALEA and respond to RIAA , REN-ISAC , and other internal/external complaints .
If you do n't trust your school , and are that concerned about running untrusted code from a vendor picked by your school , then do n't .
Do n't use the network , and have fun with your protest .
The administrators are n't forcing this upon the students because they 're unsympathetic to their concerns .
But rather , because they need to serve all students well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I manage a team of network admins at a university that uses the same software as CMU.
The software does have agents available for Mac and Linux too.Stupid question, what if your machine is a Mac or Linux box?
This "Client Security Agent" seems to be a Windows-only beast.
Whatever it is, it would be a cold day in hell before I let a university that I'm paying money to dictate that I have to have their software on my machine to use the Internet access that my tuition and fees are paying for!Here's the problem.
The IT staff has a number of conflicting expectations for the network.
There are N-1 other students at the university also paying tuition and they also expect the network to work.
School administration expects it to work, with priority given to academic purposes.
While it isn't ideal to require that students trust our software to run on their computer, it allows the school's IT staff to ensure computers comply with policy (current AV, anti-spyware, etc), and that computers that are causing network problems can be quickly identified and the problem mitigated.
(And believe me, a comprehensive network access system greatly speeds problem resolution, both for the network and the student.
)  Keeping bad computers off the network lets the network keep working for everyone else that didn't mess up their computer with malicious software.
It'd be nice to somehow exempt students that know what they're doing from this intrusive, annoying process.
But like many things, a few bad apples ruin it for everyone.The software allows policies to be set for AV existence and version, anti-spyware, and OS version and updates.
It also allows custom scans to be written to check for files and registry keys.
No other info gets sent to the administrators other than if you have failed or passed such a scan.
No one is spying on you, or cares that much about what's on your computer.
They just want the network to work.There are agentless NAC solutions available, but they are more annoying for the user and less correct for the administrators.
Having no NAC really isn't a feasible option anymore for schools of any decent size, as they need to comply with CALEA and respond to RIAA, REN-ISAC, and other internal/external complaints.
If you don't trust your school, and are that concerned about running untrusted code from a vendor picked by your school, then don't.
Don't use the network, and have fun with your protest.
The administrators aren't forcing this upon the students because they're unsympathetic to their concerns.
But rather, because they need to serve all students well.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234973
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241797
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239239
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_84</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234973
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235803
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_75</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28243299
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_58</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235829
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28268501
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_49</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236675
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_91</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234995
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237365
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_65</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240899
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_48</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235745
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28250609
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_39</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236597
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236807
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_55</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28245501
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235411
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236575
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_109</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236405
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_102</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235349
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237991
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_78</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28252197
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235923
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_83</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235161
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235517
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235947
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_97</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236149
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235679
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239831
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234883
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235077
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235435
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_73</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238077
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_47</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235663
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_50</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235313
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236043
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_52</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240759
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236543
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_37</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235745
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239227
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_108</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235449
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236155
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_98</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237041
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_111</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235247
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237981
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235371
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28270417
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_42</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235717
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_107</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240409
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235349
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28263547
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_76</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236975
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235539
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235699
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_70</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235885
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236955
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_95</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241407
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238139
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_69</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236315
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_63</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235419
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235535
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236137
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28244007
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235735
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236123
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_59</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235967
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_62</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235449
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236619
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236187
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_41</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28250939
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_64</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235419
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235535
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237555
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_106</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235005
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235613
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235473
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237705
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_87</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235885
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237587
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_100</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234975
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235305
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_40</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236193
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234883
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234981
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_89</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235419
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236809
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237817
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_92</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239269
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28249799
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_88</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238505
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_101</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234883
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235019
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238163
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_79</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235349
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28273639
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_82</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235523
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_56</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235739
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241759
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_61</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237331
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234883
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235077
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238801
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_46</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238783
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_51</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235615
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236651
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235005
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236897
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_53</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234983
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235839
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_74</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235885
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28243651
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_99</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236303
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236741
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_112</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235875
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_90</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239885
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234883
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235453
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28248259
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_81</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235713
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235419
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235577
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_38</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235005
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235889
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_77</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240851
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239103
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_80</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235273
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_71</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235609
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_54</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234973
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235641
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28275895
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_45</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235959
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_68</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237733
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_44</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235697
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234995
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28264717
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_96</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235005
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235463
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235001
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235429
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_72</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237053
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_105</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28254529
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_110</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235371
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237927
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_86</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235449
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237491
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_93</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237285
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235745
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239913
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239411
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_67</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235349
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28250109
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_43</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235719
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_66</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237579
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235449
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235651
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_57</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239005
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_60</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235331
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237239
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28245561
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_104</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237889
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_94</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235409
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235887
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_85</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238039
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235371
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238045
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1749232_103</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237625
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234995
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28264717
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237365
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238677
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235767
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235047
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234973
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235803
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235641
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241797
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234883
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235019
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238163
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234981
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235453
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28248259
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235077
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238801
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235435
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235907
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235499
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235821
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235311
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239543
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235679
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239831
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234975
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235305
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.43</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235247
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237981
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235313
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236043
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.40</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237235
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234929
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235011
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235923
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236675
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235419
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235535
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236137
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237555
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236809
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235577
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239103
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235449
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237491
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235651
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236155
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236619
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235959
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235735
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236123
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235663
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239885
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235719
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239269
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235273
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237817
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235473
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237705
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235001
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235429
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234915
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235697
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28268501
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235967
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240759
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235331
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237239
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239005
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238505
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235175
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235615
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236651
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235417
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237285
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235579
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238039
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237331
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238077
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237733
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28243299
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241407
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235885
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236955
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237587
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28243651
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235761
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238139
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28250939
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28252197
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238783
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237579
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235745
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28250609
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239227
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239913
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239239
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236597
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235609
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235739
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238861
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235393
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236807
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236405
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28254529
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28241759
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237889
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237041
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235005
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235463
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235889
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236897
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235613
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.37</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237895
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235553
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235173
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.45</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235027
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235751
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.42</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235201
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.38</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234869
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235349
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28250109
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237991
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28263547
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28273639
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28244007
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237053
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236187
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236575
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240899
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28245561
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240851
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235875
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235411
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28240409
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236975
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28245501
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235523
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28239411
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28249799
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236303
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236741
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237185
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235033
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235085
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235161
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235517
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235283
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235365
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.39</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234987
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235359
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236149
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235717
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236193
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236315
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235829
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235887
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235713
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237625
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236581
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234891
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235371
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28270417
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28238045
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28237927
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236543
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28275895
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235947
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235409
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235539
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235699
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235555
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.41</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28234983
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235839
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.44</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28235093
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1749232.34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1749232.28236761
</commentlist>
</conversation>
